NM GOP Rep. Steve Pearce Hires Wingnut Hate-Blogger “PolitixFireball” as Press Secretary

Wingnut welfare story of the day
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If you’ve ever expressed a liberal political opinion on Twitter, you’ve seen them — the rabid right wingers who feverishly tweet insults and long-debunked talking points at you, with no attempt at all to really debate anything. The worst ones are blatantly racist, homophobic, anti-Muslim religious fanatics whose online lives are absolutely defined by their obsessive hatreds.

And now, New Mexico Republican Rep. Steve Pearce has hired one of these raving nut sandwiches as his press secretary — proving once again that in the GOP, the most despicable, bigoted, abusive people rise to the top and get rewarded.

This crackpot was known as @politixfireball on Twitter, and I blocked and muted her years ago after being targeted for abuse by her and her crazed followers: Rep. Steve Pearce Hires Racist Blogger, Prevaricator @PolitixFireball as Press Secretary.

Republican congressman Steve Pearce announced today that the newest addition to his official staff is the previously anonymous firebrand blogger Rebekah Stevens, the woman behind the PolitixFireball blog and Twitter account whose anonymous online attacks against journalists, Republicans and progressives alike have been so extreme she has been banned from Twitter on multiple occasions.

Stevens is also the elected Vice Chair of the Grant County Republican Party, making her not only a Congressional staffer but a high-profile elected party official in the state.

Taxpayer dollars will now be used to fund the salary of Ms. Stevens who, while running a far-right Twitter account and accompanying blog, was well known for her myriad racist, xenophobic, and defamatory tirades against everyone from public school teachers to respected journalists to political campaign consultants to President Obama himself.

In her tweets, she also makes light of the holocaust (“Jews went up in smoke”), says all Muslims are “blood-lust” conquerors, equates slavery to abortion, compares political reporters to war criminals and compares President Obama to Hitler.

Stevens’ posts such as “Time to be racist” are reminiscent (and more extreme) than those of former Rand Paul staffer Jack Hunter whose anonymous personality, the “Confederate Avenger,” was outed in 2013 leading him to apologize for his racist postings and masked public appearances. Hunter and Paul later came to a “mutually agreed” resignation.

Ms Stevens has now protected her Twitter account to try to keep people from seeing how deranged and extreme she was — but of course, nothing ever disappears from the Internet. Here’s a Google link at which you can view cached versions of her posts on Twitter (click the little triangle next to the search result to see the cached version).

For example:

(h/t: @fbihop.)

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179 comments
1 Testy Toad T  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 11:12:01am

Rebranding III: Return of the Rerebrandening.

2 Gus  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 11:13:11am

@PolitixFireball’s tweets are protected.

3 Gus  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 11:14:02am

Looks… I have @PolitixFireball blocked.

4 Pie-onist Overlord  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 11:16:46am

re: #2 Gus

@PolitixFireball’s tweets are protected.

She blocked you.

Looks like I’m blocked too, probably called her out on a Fake Quote.

5 Ryan King  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 11:17:00am

I can’t wait for video from the first press conference. SEG

(Shit Eatin Grin)

6 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 11:17:01am

These people are slow to pick up on the fact that trolling people, calling them scum, subhuman mongrels, traitors, etc., sort of precludes ever winning them over to your arguments.

But GOP strategy is about writing off that 47% and “mobilizing the base” to gain at least local majorities. It worked in 2010 and will probably work again this year…in local elections.

And leave them in the end totally unelectable as a national party.

7 Charles Johnson  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 11:17:43am

re: #4 Pie-onist Overlord

She blocked you.

Looks like I’m blocked too, probably called her out on a Fake Quote.

No - she made her account private to try to hide her extremism, as I mentioned above.

8 Pie-onist Overlord  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 11:18:07am

What a twit.

9 b.d.  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 11:18:33am

40K followers?

10 makeitstop  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 11:19:55am

re: #9 b.d.

40K followers?

Add ‘em all up and you got yourself a half-wit.
/

11 Charles Johnson  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 11:20:07am

re: #9 b.d.

40K followers?

Yes. This kind of crazed hate speech is very popular on right wing Twitter. The worst creeps often have tens of thousands of followers.

12 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 11:22:33am

re: #11 Charles Johnson

Yes. This kind of crazed hate speech is very popular on right wing Twitter. The worst creeps often have tens of thousands of followers.

and every follower has trolled and alienated at least another dozen people…the circles spread.

13 Pie-onist Overlord  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 11:22:53am

re: #11 Charles Johnson

Yes. This kind of crazed hate speech is very popular on right wing Twitter. The worst creeps often have tens of thousands of followers.

Prudence, Janie Johnson

14 Charles Johnson  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 11:24:46am

Todd Starnes, ladies and gentlemen:

A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to a Ham Sandwich | Fox News

Anyway, after selecting a deli ham, I dropped by condiments aisle to get a jar of spicy mustard along with some bread & butter pickles.

I was about check out when I suddenly remembered that I needed some cheese.

So I made a beeline for the dairy aisle and that’s when I made a startling discovery. I brought my three-wheeled shopping cart to a screeching halt. I came face to face with a massive sign bearing giant letters.

It read: “HISPANIC CHEESE.”

I stared at the display for quite some time. I found myself drifting into an imaginary conversation with a store clerk…

“Do you need some help, sir?”

“Yes. Could you tell me where you keep the Caucasian cheese?”

15 Gus  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 11:25:16am
16 lawhawk  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 11:25:32am

She’s got a blog though, and it’s just as filled with crazy as you’d expect.

It’s got the usual anti-Obama bombast, plus an [un]healthy dose of factually challenged postings and opinions. IOW, your standard run of the mill right wing site.

17 Dr. Matt  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 11:25:43am

But, there is no difference between the left and the right!

18 Gus  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 11:26:33am
19 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 11:26:56am

re: #14 Charles Johnson

Todd Starnes, ladies and gentlemen:

A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to a Ham Sandwich | Fox News

I hope he tells it in a fake high-pitched Mexican accent…

20 Pie-onist Overlord  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 11:27:34am
21 Killgore Trout  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 11:27:52am

Outrage Update: ‘Alice in Arabia’ Writer: Media Mob Killed My Pro-Arab, Pro-Tolerance TV Series (Guest Column)

After being portrayed as a “tone-deaf racist hack,” Brooke Eikmeier — an Arabic-speaking U.S. Army veteran — explains what her scrapped project would’ve looked like if ABC Family moved forward with the pilot.

22 jaunte  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 11:29:11am

re: #14 Charles Johnson

“Could you tell me where you keep the Caucasian cheese?”

The Velveeta is right there on the second shelf, plain as day.

23 Gus  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 11:30:49am

re: #17 Dr. Matt

But, there is no difference between the left and the right!

That’s what FDL keeps telling me. //

24 HappyWarrior  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 11:30:57am

But don’t call them hateful assholes.

25 Kragar  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 11:30:58am

Fricking nutball

26 lawhawk  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 11:32:55am

More background on this nut.

And this one, found by Darth.

DERP

#LiberalVanityPlates No need for ‘em. The license plate is all but hidden. pic.twitter.com
— Politix Fireball(TM) (@PolitixFireball) July 24, 2013

27 Dr. Matt  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 11:33:05am

I predict that she’ll have to “resign” by the end of next month after spewing some typical RWNJ crap.

28 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 11:33:16am

WTF?

29 Killgore Trout  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 11:36:42am

re: #28 NJDhockeyfan

WTF?

[Embedded content]

My first thought was it might be a reenactment or filming for a movie but it looks like a real rally.

30 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 11:39:01am

re: #29 Killgore Trout

My first thought was it might be a reenactment or filming for a movie but it looks like a real rally.

I can’t believe my eyes…Nazi and Imperial Japan supporters? Do they have any idea what they are supporting?

31 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 11:40:26am

re: #30 NJDhockeyfan

Yeah, most of them do. The Japanese imperialists especially.

32 lawhawk  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 11:40:55am

re: #14 Charles Johnson

It looks Gouda to me. /Couldn’t help myself.

33 wrenchwench  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 11:41:03am

Thanks for posting this. Steve Pearce is a Personhood advocate, an oil, gas and coal advocate, and a jerk (imho) who has a credible opponent coming up from the Democrats, and I’m going to give her all the help I can.

Rocky Lara.

34 Mattand  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 11:41:28am

re: #24 HappyWarrior

But don’t call them hateful assholes.

Heh, the ol’ “You don’t tolerate my bigotry, therefore you’re a bigot” zinger.

There’s an article over on Ars Technica about the new head of mozilla.org, stewards of the Firefox browser. Apparently, this guy contributed $1000 to the Prop 8 bill in CA a few years back; the “only straights can be allowed to marry” bill.

IMO, the comments lean more to “He’s a bigot” than not. Unfortunately, there’s enough “You want to fire for him for his beliefs? Who’s the bigot NOW?” idiocy to make you reach for the liquor cabinet.

People really suck at times.

Getting back to the OP: this is why I really get despondent about the GOP. Think about it for a minute: this woman, as Charles pointed out, has been rewarded for unrepentant bigotry. She’s on permanent internet record as saying these things (thanks, Streisand Effect!)

But conservatives will not admit they have a huge, huge bigotry issue in their ranks. Not the conservatives here; not the conservatives in the media; not the ones I know in real life.

You guys are infested with the worst humanity has to offer and they’re slowly being promoted to the top of the party, instead of being cast out.

WTF is wrong with you guys?

35 HappyWarrior  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 11:43:36am

re: #30 NJDhockeyfan

I can’t believe my eyes…Nazi and Imperial Japan supporters? Do they have any idea what they are supporting?

It’s not that uncommon among the Japanese far right unfortunately. The swastika though I admit is a surprise honestly.

36 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 11:43:47am

re: #28 NJDhockeyfan

WTF?

[Embedded content]

anything to piss off a librul…

37 jaunte  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 11:44:36am

re: #30 NJDhockeyfan

This may be the same group:

Yesterday, a hard right, ultra-nationalist group known as the Zaitokukai (roughly translated as: “Citizens Against the Special Privileges of Koreans in Japan”) held a meeting of around 100 members in Tokyo’s Ikebukuro district, with a demonstration march planned directly after.tokyodesu.com

38 Bulworth  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 11:44:36am
In her tweets, she also makes light of the holocaust (“Jews went up in smoke”), says all Muslims are “blood-lust” conquerors, equates slavery to abortion, compares political reporters to war criminals and compares President Obama to Hitler.

She sounds nice….

39 HappyWarrior  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 11:44:43am

re: #34 Mattand

Heh, the ol’ “You don’t tolerate my bigotry, therefore you’re a bigot” zinger.

There’s an article over on Ars Technica about the new head of mozilla.org, stewards of the Firefox browser. Apparently, this guy contributed $1000 to the Prop 8 bill in CA a few years back; the “only straights can be allowed to marry” bill.

IMO, the comments lean more to “He’s a bigot” than not. Unfortunately, there’s enough “You want to fire for him for his beliefs? Who’s the bigot NOW?” idiocy to make you reach for the liquor cabinet.

People really suck at times.

Getting back to the OP: this is why I really get despondent about the GOP. Think about it for a minute: this woman, as Charles pointed out, has been rewarded for unrepentant bigotry. She’s on permanent internet record as saying these things (thanks, Streisand Effect!)

But conservatives will not admit they have a huge, huge bigotry issue in their ranks. Not the conservatives here; not the conservatives in the media; not the ones I know in real life.

You guys are infested with the worst humanity has to offer and they’re slowly being promoted to the top of the party, instead of being cast out.

WTF is wrong with you guys?

For conservatives especially conservative activists, it’s a problem when someone has socially moderate views than has a history of saying toxic shit, see GOProud getting banned in favor of groups like the JBS at CPAC.

40 HappyWarrior  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 11:45:10am

re: #38 Bulworth

She sounds nice….

Sounds like a perfectly well reasoned individual.

41 EPR-radar  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 11:45:12am

Meanwhile, shortly after Obama was elected in 2008, the idea of Amanda Marcotte (Pandagon) having a role in the new administration was nixed by right wing outrage.

It would appear her main sin according to RWNJs is that she’s not polite when calling out the GOP for their war on women.

42 Dr. Matt  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 11:45:40am

re: #34 Mattand

Amusing. Mozilla’s webpage reads:

We are Mozilla
Doing good is part of our code

Bigotry is “doing good”?

43 HappyWarrior  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 11:45:47am

re: #41 EPR-radar

Meanwhile, shortly after Obama was elected in 2008, the idea of Amanda Marcotte (Pandagon) having a role in the new administration was nixed by right wing outrage.

It would appear her main sin according to RWNJs is that she’s not polite when calling out the GOP for their war on women.

Conservatism: Do as I say, not as I do.

44 wrenchwench  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 11:46:27am

The fellow who is hat-tipped at the end there deserves even moar hits for this:

Also, he’s a vewwy quiet lizard, IIRC.

45 Bulworth  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 11:47:31am

re: #16 lawhawk

She’s got a blog though, and it’s just as filled with crazy as you’d expect.

It’s got the usual anti-Obama bombast, plus an [un]healthy dose of factually challenged postings and opinions. IOW, your standard run of the mill right wing site.

You know what the problem with this country is? We just don’t have enough bloggers/tweeters/talk radio barkers like this person. We just really need more of these type of people.

/////

46 Pie-onist Overlord  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 11:47:39am

re: #41 EPR-radar

Meanwhile, shortly after Obama was elected in 2008, the idea of Amanda Marcotte (Pandagon) having a role in the new administration was nixed by right wing outrage.

It would appear her main sin according to RWNJs is that she’s not polite when calling out the GOP for their war on women.

I used to think she was a moonbat but now she seems pretty middle-of-the-road.

47 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 11:48:19am

re: #34 Mattand

You guys are infested with the worst humanity has to offer and they’re slowly being promoted to the top of the party, instead of being cast out.

WTF is wrong with you guys?

It all started when GOP candidates were too afraid of being shouted down at a Town Hall meeting by some goombah in a tricorne hat carrying an “Obama=Hitler!” sign to try to distance themselves from that kind of inarticulate bigotry.

That started a race to the bottom of the barrel when it came to messaging and at some point, the toxicity of the message reached a tipping point and they all started rising to the surface.

48 darthstar  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 11:48:23am
49 Killgore Trout  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 11:50:12am

re: #30 NJDhockeyfan

I can’t believe my eyes…Nazi and Imperial Japan supporters? Do they have any idea what they are supporting?

Well, we did nuke them twice. Some people are unhappy about that.

50 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 11:50:21am

re: #48 darthstar

One symptom of Obama Derangement Syndrome is the ability to hold these viewpoints simultaneously and selectively.

51 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 11:51:27am

re: #49 Killgore Trout

Well, we did nuke them twice. Some people are unhappy about that.

Really, they were just quietly displacing European Imperialism with their Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere and we came along and nuked them for no reason!

52 HappyWarrior  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 11:52:56am

I came of age in the Age of Clinton and I thought the hatred directed at him was pretty nasty. I.>E the late Barbara Olson calling his the president’s then recently deceased mother Trailer Park trash or going after him for his not serving in Vietnam all the while there were assholes like Cheney who had the arrogance to say “they had other priorities” other than military service or used a pimple on the ass as an excuse i.e. Rush. Or the claims I heard that my friends said no doubt echoed from Mom and Dad that Clinton sold our secrets to the Chinese. Bush hatred did exist and I will admit here that I did hate Bush for his first term but the hatred for Obama is like nothing I’ve ever seen. Maybe it’s because we live in these times of mass communication. But I think Obama did awaken the racism and xenophobia that has long existed on the right. It is true, they would hate Obama if his name were Barry O’Malley and his father was from County Kerry rather than Kenya but Obama’s gotten way more irrational hate and bigotry directed at him than any other president and I don’t think it’s merely because of the age of Twitter and Facebook.

53 CuriousLurker  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 11:53:04am

re: #31 William Barnett-Lewis

Yeah, most of them do. The Japanese imperialists especially.

I was just thinking the same thing, especially since Japan (like the United States) has a 99% literacy rate. It’s not as if Japan is some war-torn, failed state with a largely illiterate population like Somalia (37.8%) or Afghanistan (28.1%).

54 Mattand  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 11:53:18am

re: #39 HappyWarrior

For conservatives especially conservative activists, it’s a problem when someone has socially moderate views than has a history of saying toxic shit, see GOProud getting banned in favor of groups like the JBS at CPAC.

I do not get gay people wanting to be Republican. The writing has been on that particular wall since the ‘92 GOP convention, at least.

55 HappyWarrior  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 11:54:27am

re: #54 Mattand

I do not get gay people wanting to be Republican. The writing has been on that particular wall since the ‘92 GOP convention, at least.

I’d say it’s been on the wall since Reagan decided to kiss Falwell’s ass. The GOP hasn’t been gay friendly since the Ford years. Pretty sad isn’t it? That Jerry Ford who would be 101 years old this July was more friendly on LGBT rights than your average living Republican.

56 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 11:54:59am

re: #52 HappyWarrior

Obama’s gotten way more irrational hate and bigotry directed at him than any other president and I don’t think it’s merely because of the age of Twitter and Facebook.

And for the fact that the mainstream GOP was too timid or shortsighted to distance itself from this sort of bigotry that truly serves to alienate people who might otherwise be more receptive to their message.

57 EPR-radar  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 11:56:00am

re: #54 Mattand

I do not get gay people wanting to be Republican. The writing has been on that particular wall since the ‘92 GOP convention, at least.

IMO Log Cabin and GOProud are wealthy fools that think (probably correctly) that their money will save them from the fires and ovens the so-cons would like to implement.

It’s contemptible.

58 Pie-onist Overlord  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 11:56:31am

re: #54 Mattand

I do not get gay people wanting to be Republican. The writing has been on that particular wall since the ‘92 GOP convention, at least.

Libertarian dudebros, like Greenwald I GOT MINE, FUCK TEH POORS

59 HappyWarrior  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 11:57:26am

re: #53 CuriousLurker

I was just thinking the same thing, especially since Japan (like the United States) has a 99% literacy rate. It’s not as if Japan is some war-torn, failed state with a largely illiterate population like Somalia (37.8%) or Afghanistan (28.1%).

It’s because of how they teach history there. Lots of revisionism. I think it was less than a decade ago that Japan’s government finally apologized for the comfort women for example and Japan’s most recent president has gotten in hot water with the Chinese especially for visits for a war shrine that contains the ashes of many convicted war criminals. Part of me wonders if we would have been better off trying Hirohito the way we tried Nazi Germany’s political leaders.

60 CuriousLurker  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 11:58:03am

re: #49 Killgore Trout

Well, we did nuke them twice. Some people are unhappy about that.

This is true. Regardless of the circumstances and what was at stake during WWII, whenever I look at photos of Hiroshima & Nagasaki I’m not at all convinced that I’d be able to forgive a country that did that to me & mine.

61 HappyWarrior  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 11:58:45am

re: #56 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

And for the fact that the mainstream GOP was too timid or shortsighted to distance itself from this sort of bigotry that truly serves to alienate people who might otherwise be more receptive to their message.

Yep you have to be a social conservative as well as an economic conservative if you want to make it. In the past, socially liberal Republicans were very common place. Now we call those former Rockefeller Republicans, mainstream Democrats.

62 CuriousLurker  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 11:59:15am

re: #59 HappyWarrior

It’s because of how they teach history there. Lots of revisionism. I think it was less than a decade ago that Japan’s government finally apologized for the comfort women for example and Japan’s most recent president has gotten in hot water with the Chinese especially for visits for a war shrine that contains the ashes of many convicted war criminals. Part of me wonders if we would have been better off trying Hirohito the way we tried Nazi Germany’s political leaders.

Thanks for the info. I didn’t know that.

63 jaunte  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 11:59:53am

re: #34 Mattand

Getting back to the OP: this is why I really get despondent about the GOP. Think about it for a minute: this woman, as Charles pointed out, has been rewarded for unrepentant bigotry. She’s on permanent internet record as saying these things (thanks, Streisand Effect!)

But conservatives will not admit they have a huge, huge bigotry issue in their ranks. Not the conservatives here; not the conservatives in the media; not the ones I know in real life.

You guys are infested with the worst humanity has to offer and they’re slowly being promoted to the top of the party, instead of being cast out.

WTF is wrong with you guys?

Remember when Obama asked O’Reilly “What you guys are gonna have to figure out is … what are you gonna do when I’m gone?”

They really are building up a huge mob of haters, and I don’t think they can just stop and return to rationality when the president retires.

64 Kragar  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 12:00:40pm

re: #49 Killgore Trout

Well, we did nuke them twice. Some people are unhappy about that.

When I was over there about 20 years ago, there was a popular novel series that was set in an alternate history where Japan “won” the war.

65 HappyWarrior  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 12:00:50pm

re: #62 CuriousLurker

Thanks for the info. I didn’t know that.

Not a problem but yeah MacArthur made the decision as military governor of Japan to keep Hirohito away from prosecution and not to stand trial like Tojo and the others did. There are some who say that this was the right move since the emperor has for centuries played a vital role in Japanese life but others feel that Hirohito was just as guilty as Tojo. It’s tough for me to say. My knowledge of WWII is more in the European theater.

66 Pie-onist Overlord  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 12:00:53pm

re: #63 jaunte

Remember when Obama asked O’Reilly “What you guys are gonna have to figure out is … what are you gonna do when I’m gone?”

They really are building up a huge mob of haters, and I don’t think they can just stop and return to rationality when the president retires.

They have already built up a huge Hillary hate from BENGHAZI!!!11!!!!!!

67 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 12:01:49pm

re: #60 CuriousLurker

This is true. Regardless of the circumstances and what was at stake during WWII, whenever I look at photos of Hiroshima & Nagasaki I’m not at all convinced that I’d be able to forgive a country that did that to me & mine.

Most people don’t realize those two nukes saved millions of lives.

68 HappyWarrior  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 12:02:02pm

re: #66 Pie-onist Overlord

They have already built up a huge Hillary hate from BENGHAZI!!!11!!!!!!

that’s more rebuilding since Hillary hatred on the right existed long before Benghazi and even Obama’s presidency itself. Not to nitpick.

69 EPR-radar  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 12:02:35pm

re: #59 HappyWarrior

It’s because of how they teach history there. Lots of revisionism. I think it was less than a decade ago that Japan’s government finally apologized for the comfort women for example and Japan’s most recent president has gotten in hot water with the Chinese especially for visits for a war shrine that contains the ashes of many convicted war criminals. Part of me wonders if we would have been better off trying Hirohito the way we tried Nazi Germany’s political leaders.

It’s not just a matter of education, although it is true there is too much revisionism in the curriculum. Some fraction of any population will be fans of straight up militarism.

With respect to post WWII clean-up, it’s not clear Hirohito would have been a good target for trials. As I understand it, the real power in Japan at that time was a military industrial complex, and the industrial side (i.e., the Zaibatsu) basically got off scot free in exchange for being cooperative on the cold war.

70 Testy Toad T  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 12:02:38pm

Every time I go to upding someone and miss the button with my mouse, and accidentally downding them for a few seconds, I get this terrible feeling inside and am absolutely petrified someone will notice and make a comment about it, or that it’s recorded on the Secret LGFNSA Metadata Server Charles has set up, or something.

Yes, I was raised Catholic. Why do you ask?

71 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 12:02:54pm

re: #65 HappyWarrior

Not a problem but yeah MacArthur made the decision as military governor of Japan to keep Hirohito away from prosecution and not to stand trial like Tojo and the others did. There are some who say that this was the right move since the emperor has for centuries played a vital role in Japanese life but others feel that Hirohito was just as guilty as Tojo. It’s tough for me to say. My knowledge of WWII is more in the European theater.

Prosecuting Hirohito might have made japan ungovernable and turned the Americans into a hostile occupation force. As long as Hirohito was there to remind people to accept their fate, they assented and got back to work rebuilding the country

72 Pie-onist Overlord  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 12:03:22pm

re: #68 HappyWarrior

that’s more rebuilding since Hillary hatred on the right existed long before Benghazi and even Obama’s presidency itself. Not to nitpick.

I almost forgot how much she was hated as FLOTUS, but only because the Michelle hate has surpassed that by eleventy.

73 Varek Raith  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 12:03:34pm

You know what’s fun?
Digging through the event logs of a half dozen PCs.
What a shitty day.

74 HappyWarrior  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 12:03:36pm

re: #67 NJDhockeyfan

Most people don’t realize those two nukes saved millions of lives.

I think many do but remember those are the only two times in history that they have been used. I think Truman made the right decision in the end but it is easy for me to say that as an American and not a resident of Japan that may have family that was killed in the blast or sick for years afterward. Not arguing about the decision, it’s just easier to understand it from an American perspective.

75 Killgore Trout  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 12:04:07pm

re: #64 Kragar

When I was over there about 20 years ago, there was a popular novel series that was set in an alternate history where Japan “won” the war.

Those alternate history stories were fashionable a while ago. I never got into them but a lot of people really liked them.

76 CuriousLurker  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 12:04:19pm

re: #64 Kragar

When I was over there about 20 years ago, there was a popular novel series that was set in an alternate history where Japan “won” the war.

Do you—or any of the other history/military buffs here—know if any country besides the U.S. has ever actually used nuclear weapons in war? Wikipedia says we’re the only ones to have done that, but I haven’t attempted to verify it.

77 Pie-onist Overlord  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 12:04:24pm

HEY, IT’S THE SAME GUYS IN BOTH PHOTOS.

78 Testy Toad T  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 12:04:42pm

re: #76 CuriousLurker

Do you—or any of the other history/military buffs here—know if any country besides the U.S. has ever actually used nuclear weapons in war? Wikipedia says we’re the only ones to have done that, but I haven’t attempted to verify it.

Absolutely 100% factual.

79 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 12:04:46pm

Russian UN embassador flings more bullshit…

80 HappyWarrior  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 12:04:58pm

re: #71 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

Prosecuting Hirohito might have made japan ungovernable and turned the Americans into a hostile occupation force. As long as Hirohito was there to remind people to accept their fate, they assented and got back to work rebuilding the country

Yeah, I lean at this point to thinking that this was a good move on MacArthur’s part. Not a big fan of his historically speaking but I think he did a good job as military governor of Japan given that not even 70 years after VJ day, Japan is our top ally in the Pacific rim.

81 Testy Toad T  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 12:06:17pm

re: #80 HappyWarrior

Yeah, I lean at this point to thinking that this was a good move on MacArthur’s part. Not a big fan of his historically speaking but I think he did a good job as military governor of Japan given that not even 70 years after VJ day, Japan is our top ally in the Pacific rim.

Forget “not even 70 years”; you could have made that statement thirty years ago and it would have been no less true.

(Although we might have to quibble about Australia)

82 HappyWarrior  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 12:06:21pm

re: #77 Pie-onist Overlord

HEY, IT’S THE SAME GUYS IN BOTH PHOTOS.

[Embedded content]

I get it conservatives, you live in a delusional world where you’re all manly men and all liberals are wussies. Didn’t end well for y’all last time you tried a civil war.

83 HappyWarrior  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 12:06:54pm

re: #81 Testy Toad T

Forget “not even 70 years”; you could have made that statement thirty years ago and it would have been no less true.

(Although we might have to quibble about Australia)

Yeah, it’s quite remarkable how quick Japan went from adversary to key ally. Good point about Australia though.

84 Killgore Trout  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 12:07:07pm

Meanwhile in Iran
Getting drunk in a Muslim country: Iran’s secret party scene revealed

“My friends and I routinely gather to stamp down on grapes in my bathtub,” said Hesam, a 28-year-old music teacher in Tehran, asking to be identified only by his first name. “It’s fun, a cleansing ritual almost.”

85 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 12:07:59pm

re: #77 Pie-onist Overlord

But again, a lot of these wingnuts are not interested in winning people over to their side of the debate, Their sole tactic is shouting down anyone who disagrees with them or (in their infantile fantasies) gunning them down in armed conflict

86 palmerskiss  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 12:08:32pm

More than six million Americans have now signed up for private insurance under the Affordable Care Act, according to the White House, with just four days to go until the end of its first open enrollment period.

washingtonpost.com

87 HappyWarrior  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 12:09:01pm

re: #86 palmerskiss

More than six million Americans have now signed up for private insurance under the Affordable Care Act, according to the White House, with just four days to go until the end of its first open enrollment period.

washingtonpost.com

So does that mean we can repeal it now?//

88 HappyWarrior  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 12:09:49pm

re: #84 Killgore Trout

Meanwhile in Iran
Getting drunk in a Muslim country: Iran’s secret party scene revealed

It’s too bad really. Iran would honestly be an inviting place if not for the strict laws. Been reading stories about this for years about Tehran’s young people though.

89 palmerskiss  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 12:10:01pm

re: #87 HappyWarrior

So does that mean we can repeal it now?//

only if you tack it on to an “Execute the gays, and the marxist pope” bill

90 Dr Lizardo  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 12:10:14pm

re: #64 Kragar

When I was over there about 20 years ago, there was a popular novel series that was set in an alternate history where Japan “won” the war.

Ever seen Konpeki no Kantai? It’s actually pretty interesting, and a good example of AH.

en.wikipedia.org

91 Kragar  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 12:10:40pm

re: #77 Pie-onist Overlord

HEY, IT’S THE SAME GUYS IN BOTH PHOTOS.

[Embedded content]

Hmm, I was in the Marines for 8 years and I’m a liberal. I think their data might be skewed.

92 HappyWarrior  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 12:11:32pm

I can’t get into alternative history. Don’t know. I love history. My degree’s in it even but I just can’t get into AH. Which is funny since my first favorite movie was Bill and Ted’s Excellent Adventure. That movie more than Back to the Future got me into time travel as a youngster.

93 CuriousLurker  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 12:11:48pm

re: #67 NJDhockeyfan

Most people don’t realize those two nukes saved millions of lives.

That’s why I prefaced what I said with, “Regardless of the circumstances and what was at stake during WWII…”

If you had lost loved ones—perhaps even your whole family—or been born with birth defects due to your mother being exposed to radiation, can you honestly say you’re certain you would have cared how many millions of people on the other side of the world were saved? I can’t. Not when I look at the photos.

94 palmerskiss  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 12:12:09pm

The music world is already squirming with anticipation over Wu-Tang Clan’s upcoming LP, A Better Tomorrow, but it turns out the New York hip-hop legends have another - let’s say, more relic-like - album in the works. In a new interview with Forbes, RZA says the group plans to sell one copy of a previously unannounced, 31-track double LP The Wu - Once Upon a Time in Shoalin.

Read more: rollingstone.com

killer bee’s ya’ll

95 Pie-onist Overlord  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 12:12:23pm

re: #91 Kragar

Hmm, I was in the Marines for 8 years and I’m a liberal. I think their data might be skewed.

They have this weird notion (along with almost all of their other weird notions) that all military are conservatives.

That’s why the President throughout WW2 was a Republican!

Oh wait.

96 CuriousLurker  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 12:12:53pm

re: #78 Testy Toad T

Absolutely 100% factual.

Thanks.

97 palmerskiss  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 12:13:54pm

re: #93 CuriousLurker

That’s why I prefaced what I said with, “Regardless of the circumstances and what was at stake during WWII…”

If you had lost loved ones—perhaps even your whole family—or been born with birth defects due to your mother being exposed to radiation, can you honestly say you’re certain you would have cared how many millions of people on the other side of the world were saved? I can’t. Not when I look at the photos.

i have a page about the thalidomide affair i think will be finished by friday - will touch on some of that.

98 Testy Toad T  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 12:14:03pm

re: #93 CuriousLurker

That’s why I prefaced what I said with, “Regardless of the circumstances and what was at stake during WWII…”

If you had lost loved ones—perhaps even your whole family—or been born with birth defects due to your mother being exposed to radiation, can you honestly say you’re certain you would have cared how many millions of people on the other side of the world were saved? I can’t. Not when I look at the photos.

You can make that statement about any action in any armed conflict, though. There’s always more than one way to skin a cat; one way might kill your family, another might kill mine.

It’s not really unique or intrinsic to the use of nuclear weapons. We killed a hell of a lot more Japanese with conventional fire-bomb raids. They’re just nuclear ooga-booga scary.

99 HappyWarrior  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 12:14:15pm

re: #95 Pie-onist Overlord

They have this weird notion (along with almost all of their other weird notions) that all military are conservatives.

That’s why the President throughout WW2 was a Republican!

Oh wait.

It’s stupid. But you know, these are people who post pictures of scantily clad women with guns as a ways of arguing gun policy so we’re not exactly dealing with master debaters here.

100 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 12:14:35pm

re: #64 Kragar

When I was over there about 20 years ago, there was a popular novel series that was set in an alternate history where Japan “won” the war.

The classic in that Genre is of course, Phillip K. Dick’s The Man in the High Castle. The West Coast occupied by Japan, the East Coast by Germany and the Midwest a Vichy France-style puppet state.

Intercontinental rocketship travel - 40 minutes from Tempelhof to Denver, but no decent music or TV entertainment as all the blacks and Jews have been eradicated.

But at least marijuana was legal under Japanese occupation.

101 palmerskiss  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 12:14:56pm

re: #99 HappyWarrior

It’s stupid. But you know, these are people who post pictures of scantily clad women with guns as a ways of arguing gun policy so we’re not exactly dealing with master debaters here.

guns do not hug back

102 CuriousLurker  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 12:15:20pm

re: #97 palmerskiss

i have a page about the thalidomide affair i think will be finished by friday - will touch on some of that.

Thanks for the heads-up. I’ll be on the lookout for it.

103 Killgore Trout  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 12:15:27pm

re: #88 HappyWarrior

It’s too bad really. Iran would honestly be an inviting place if not for the strict laws. Been reading stories about this for years about Tehran’s young people though.

I get the impression that the urban population is much more liberal and most of the mullah’s support comes from the rural areas. either way, a decent chunk of the population wants nothing to do with Israel, Gaza, Hamas, Hezbollah or religious clerics. They want to drink, wear fashionable clothes and live modern lives. The mullahs won’t rule the country forever.

105 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 12:16:06pm

re: #91 Kragar

Hmm, I was in the Marines for 8 years and I’m a liberal. I think their data might be skewed.

People who have no idea of what it means to really be a man or a true patriot tend to cling to external symbols, which is why they are so fixated on guns, flags and crucifixes in public places.

106 EPR-radar  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 12:16:19pm

re: #93 CuriousLurker

That’s why I prefaced what I said with, “Regardless of the circumstances and what was at stake during WWII…”

If you had lost loved ones—perhaps even your whole family—or been born with birth defects due to your mother being exposed to radiation, can you honestly say you’re certain you would have cared how many millions of people on the other side of the world were saved? I can’t. Not when I look at the photos.

Many of the lives saved by the use of the atomic bombs were Japanese lives. The Japanese casualties (both military and civilian) would have been horrific had a conventional invasion of the islands been carried out.

107 Killgore Trout  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 12:17:04pm

Update on an old story: Jury selection begins for husband accused of murder

Opening statements in the trial of Kassim Alhimidi are expected next week.

Alhimidi, 49, was arrested on Nov. 8, 2012, by El Cajon police in what was first thought to be a hate crime. His wife, 32-year-old Shaima Alawadi, was found mortally injured with at least six head wounds in their Skyview Street residence on March 21, 2012.

First-responders found a note in the home that read, “This is my country, go back to yours, terrorist.”

108 HappyWarrior  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 12:17:12pm

re: #103 Killgore Trout

I get the impression that the urban population is much more liberal and most of the mullah’s support comes from the rural areas. either way, a decent chunk of the population wants nothing to do with Israel, Gaza, Hamas, Hezbollah or religious clerics. They want to drink, wear fashionable clothes and live modern lives. The mullahs won’t rule the country forever.

It’s related to education I think too. You’re right that a large dynamic is rural and urban as it is with most modernity struggles but I think educational background plays a role here too not merely urban dynamics. Ahmadinjad was mayor of Tehran before being president.

109 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 12:17:54pm

re: #60 CuriousLurker

This is true. Regardless of the circumstances and what was at stake during WWII, whenever I look at photos of Hiroshima & Nagasaki I’m not at all convinced that I’d be able to forgive a country that did that to me & mine.

Thing to remember is that Japan still exists today because of those weapons. Had the Manhattan Project failed, it would have been Operation Downfall with the Olympus & Coronet invasions that would have pretty much done the Carthage thing to Japan. Look at Okinawa & Iwo Jima to understand what it would have been like over the whole nation.

Plus the Soviets would have loved an excuse to “liberate” the northern half ala North Korea.

Lastly, fewer died in Hiroshima and Nagasaki together than in the Tokyo fire bombing raids.

Overall, bizzaro as it may sound, nuclear weapons were a good thing for Japan.

110 palmerskiss  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 12:18:32pm

re: #104 Varek Raith

Wikipedia Founder Smacks Down Petition To Include Holistic Medicine in Science Articles

Ah, nice to see.

alternative medicine, once proven effective by science, is called - mainstream medicine…

111 wrenchwench  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 12:19:15pm

Update:

[UPDATE (3/27/14): Rep. Steve Pearce broke his silence yesterday on the controversy surrounding his new press secretary Rebekah Stevens, the previously anonymous woman who ran the PolitixFireball Twitter account and blog. Pearce told the ABQ Journal that he had a “very frank and straightforward discussion” with Stevens about her online rhetoric before hiring her. This plainly contradicts what Pearce’s Chief of Staff, Todd Willens, told the Santa Fe Reporter Wednesday - namely, that Stevens’ hate- and lie-filled PolitixFireball Twitter/blog “wasn’t anything we got into a detailed conversation on.”

Pearce tried to downplay Stevens’ anonymous online attacks to the Journal as merely “confrontational” when, in fact, Stevens used her anonymous online persona to defame the character of private citizens, spew racist tirades, and tell outlandish, conspiratorial lies without ever presenting any evidence whatsoever to justify her claims. Easy to do when veiling yourself behind a nameless online avatar.

Pearce’s endorsement of Stevens and his tacit defense of her previous actions speaks to just how far-right Tea Party members of Congress like Pearce have become and how out-of-touch he is with the needs and views of his constituents.]

Also here and here.

112 HappyWarrior  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 12:20:26pm

re: #111 wrenchwench

Update:

Also here and here.

Sucks that a beautiful state such as NM has such an ugly asshole like this guy representing it.

113 Killgore Trout  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 12:20:43pm

More details: EL CAJON POLICE FAKED PHOTO TO OBTAIN CONFESSION PLACING MAN AT MURDER SCENE

In a pretrial motion hearing yesterday, El Cajon police Detective Darren Forster testified that he doctored a photograph to convince Kassim Alhimidi to admit that he was near his home when his wife, Shaima Alawadi, was brutally murdered. Police admitted that they drove the suspect’s red van to the scene and staged a photo, altering the date stamp.

Alhimidi initially denied being near the scene but later said he was in the area when shown the “evidence,” ECM news partner 10 News reports. He continues to deny killing his wife and reportedly wept in court after learning he had been arrested based on falsified evidence.

Defense attorneys plan to argue that the victim’s daughter, Fatima, is the real murderer. She has claimed she was home in the shower and did not hear her mother being murdered. Fatima was reportedly distraught over being forced into an arranged marriage.

114 palmerskiss  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 12:21:01pm

re: #111 wrenchwench

Update:

Also here and here.

being a lying, hateful bigot is just basic requirements for entry to the party…. gets you in the door,

115 palmerskiss  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 12:21:26pm

re: #112 HappyWarrior

Sucks that a beautiful state such as NM has such an ugly asshole like this guy representing it.

it is beautiful…

116 CuriousLurker  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 12:22:33pm

re: #98 Testy Toad T

You can make that statement about any action in any armed conflict, though. There’s always more than one way to skin a cat; one way might kill your family, another might kill mine.

True. I can’t really argue with that.

It’s not really unique or intrinsic to the use of nuclear weapons. We killed a hell of a lot more Japanese with conventional fire-bomb raids. They’re just nuclear ooga-booga scary.

Yes, but nuclear weapons are ooga-booga scary for a good reason. Their potential for nearly instantaneous, catastrophic destruction is unparalleled, AFAIK. Isn’t that why we strive to closely monitor nuclear weapons & everything related to their possible manufacture?

117 palmerskiss  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 12:23:28pm

re: #102 CuriousLurker

Thanks for the heads-up. I’ll be on the lookout for it.

sorry i missed the first part of that convo in relation to japan and the war- obviously it wont touch on any of that - but the birth defects - def.

118 Charles Johnson  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 12:24:26pm

Increasingly these days, my response to statements from right wing heroes is to think, “Man, what a flaming asshole.”

119 HappyWarrior  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 12:25:23pm

re: #118 Charles Johnson

Increasingly these days, my response to statements from right wing heroes is to think, “Man, what a flaming asshole.”

[Embedded content]

Honestly are there are any right wing heroes who aren’t flaming assholes?

120 palmerskiss  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 12:25:57pm

re: #118 Charles Johnson

Increasingly these days, my response to statements from right wing heroes is to think, “Man, what a flaming asshole.”

[Embedded content]

forgive me father for i have stolen, i have plagiarized, i have scandalized. i have ostracized. forgive me father, but my god, ayn rand promises me your god does not exist.

121 Pie-onist Overlord  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 12:26:21pm

re: #118 Charles Johnson

Increasingly these days, my response to statements from right wing heroes is to think, “Man, what a flaming asshole.”

[Embedded content]

Ted Cruz beats Rand Paul hands down in a Flaming Asshole competition.

122 GunstarGreen  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 12:26:33pm

re: #91 Kragar

Hmm, I was in the Marines for 8 years and I’m a liberal. I think their data might be skewed.

It’s funny watching some balding lardass of an RWNJ try to say something about “real consuhrvatihv may-un” vs. “lib’rul pansies”.

Then showing him a guy that could probably bench press his bloated body for reps that also holds liberal viewpoints.

123 dog philosopher  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 12:26:40pm

re: #109 William Barnett-Lewis

Thing to remember is that Japan still exists today because of those weapons. Had the Manhattan Project failed, it would have been Operation Downfall with the Olympus & Coronet invasions that would have pretty much done the Carthage thing to Japan. Look at Okinawa & Iwo Jima to understand what it would have been like over the whole nation.

Plus the Soviets would have loved an excuse to “liberate” the northern half ala North Korea.

Lastly, fewer died in Hiroshima and Nagasaki together than in the Tokyo fire bombing raids.

Overall, bizzaro as it may sound, nuclear weapons were a good thing for Japan.

actually, the war department had just about given up on the idea of an invasion of japan as the best alternative plan of action in the months before the bomb was dropped - macarthur became the last holdout arguing for the original invasion plan

i think if there had been no bomb a much more likely outcome would have been a siege of the home islands with the aerial bombardment continuing - this would have very effectively brought the population to its knees without the mutual devastation of an invasion

124 Varek Raith  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 12:26:47pm

re: #118 Charles Johnson

Increasingly these days, my response to statements from right wing heroes is to think, “Man, what a flaming asshole.”

[Embedded content]

Serial plagiarizer says what?

125 Testy Toad T  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 12:26:57pm

re: #116 CuriousLurker

Yes, but nuclear weapons are ooga-booga scary fora good reason. Their potential for nearly instantaneous, catastrophic destruction is unparalleled, AFAIK. Isn’t that why we strive to closely monitor nuclear weapons & everything related to their possible manufacture?

Truthfully, we strive to closely monitor and limit nuclear proliferation because they’re too easy to deploy. You can salt the earth much more effectively by other means, but it takes long enough to build up the manpower and resources that it gives actors time to stop and think and be rational.

Nuclear weapons are frustratingly lightweight and compact. Indeed, you didn’t see MAD emerge as a real doctrine or understanding until the 1960s or so. That’s not because nuclear weapons got more powerful (indeed, on average they grew weaker). It’s because they got so much smaller.

If you could wave your Magical Wand of Science and make it so that, physically, it were not even theoretically possible to make a nuclear weapon lighter than three tons and smaller than a pickup truck, the traditional nuclear powers would pull a hamstring jumping at the idea.

126 EPR-radar  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 12:27:27pm

re: #119 HappyWarrior

Honestly are there are any right wing heroes who aren’t flaming assholes?

I can’t think of any who are presently alive. Reagan had the knack of disguising his support for rotten policy under a veneer of geniality.

127 Pie-onist Overlord  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 12:28:07pm

Ted Cruz & entourage pray for the repeal of Obamacare just before they set fire to the government.

128 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 12:28:35pm

re: #121 Pie-onist Overlord

Ted Cruz beats Rand Paul hands down in a Flaming Asshole competition.

[Embedded content]

If “violating one’s faith” is the same as “not forcing one’s faith on other people” then Ted has a point…

129 HappyWarrior  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 12:28:54pm

re: #126 EPR-radar

I can’t think of any who are presently alive. Reagan had the knack of disguising his support for rotten policy under a veneer of geniality.

Part of me thinks Reagan was a bigger asshole than Nixon since Nixon didn’t hide the fact that he was an asshole. Reagan would smile while he decided to screw you over for his wealthy buddies.

130 jaunte  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 12:28:56pm

re: #121 Pie-onist Overlord

“religious freedom activists”

They’re really not up on that whole ‘bearing false witness’ thing.

131 palmerskiss  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 12:29:34pm

re: #127 Pie-onist Overlord

Ted Cruz & entourage pray for the repeal of Obamacare just before they set fire to the government.

[Embedded content]

whats with the knee pads? what getting a pebble in a kneecap for god is one suffering too far?

and jesus on his cross. knee pads?

132 dog philosopher  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 12:30:22pm

i’m not saying dropping the bomb was the wrong thing to do, but the actual number of children incinerated was in the tens of thousands, while the number of lives saved by that action remain entirely theoretical

i don’t believe in actions or outcomes being completely right or wrong, in most cases - in a complicated case like this, involving the whole of humankind, there can only be best guesses and tradeoffs

133 GunstarGreen  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 12:31:03pm

re: #127 Pie-onist Overlord

Ted Cruz & entourage pray for the repeal of Obamacare just before they set fire to the government.

[Embedded content]

Aw, look at all those cute little knee-pads.

Wouldn’t want to scuff your suits or endure a few seconds of discomfort for Jesus, now would you?

134 HappyWarrior  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 12:31:12pm

All i can say Re: the bomb, well you have the answer on why I could never be president. Truman had a hell of a choice and I think ultimately he made the best one he could given the circumstances.

135 dog philosopher  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 12:31:47pm

re: #129 HappyWarrior

Part of me thinks Reagan was a bigger asshole than Nixon since Nixon didn’t hide the fact that he was an asshole. Reagan would smile while he decided to screw you over for his wealthy buddies.

did reagan ever really understand what he was doing?

136 CuriousLurker  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 12:31:55pm

re: #106 EPR-radar

Many of the lives saved by the use of the atomic bombs were Japanese lives. The Japanese casualties (both military and civilian) would have been horrific had a conventional invasion of the islands been carried out.

Again, I understand all that on a practical, intellectual level, but then no one in my family was killed or disfigured by fighting in WWII (though my dad did suffer from “shell shock” and subsequent PTSD-like symptoms after serving in the Marine Corps in the South Pacific Area). I’m talking about feelings—gut level, messy, not always rational emotions. I’m not sure I could get past that.

137 EPR-radar  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 12:32:08pm

re: #123 dog philosopher

actually, the war department had just about given up on the idea of an invasion of japan as the best alternative plan of action in the months before the bomb was dropped - macarthur became the last holdout arguing for the original invasion plan

i think if there had been no bomb a much more likely outcome would have been a siege of the home islands with the aerial bombardment continuing - this would have very effectively brought the population to its knees without the mutual devastation of an invasion

It’s hard to say how long such a siege would have needed to be. After all, by 1945 it had become perfectly clear that Japan had lost the war, with daily bombing raids on Japanese cities, with no signs of surrender.

Bombardment alone never did as much in WWII as the axis or allied proponents of air power advertised.

138 palmerskiss  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 12:32:25pm

re: #129 HappyWarrior

Part of me thinks Reagan was a bigger asshole than Nixon since Nixon didn’t hide the fact that he was an asshole. Reagan would smile while he decided to screw you over for his wealthy buddies.

re: #133 GunstarGreen

Aw, look at all those cute little knee-pads.

Wouldn’t want to scuff your suits or endure a few seconds of discomfort for Jesus, now would you?

they had to pre plan the knee pads - what a ridiculous holier than thou dog whistle wingnut troll by congress people.. shameful.

139 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 12:32:28pm

re: #123 dog philosopher

actually, the war department had just about given up on the idea of an invasion of japan as the best alternative plan of action in the months before the bomb was dropped - macarthur became the last holdout arguing for the original invasion plan

i think if there had been no bomb a much more likely outcome would have been a siege of the home islands with the aerial bombardment continuing - this would have very effectively brought the population to its knees without the mutual devastation of an invasion

That’s the Navy’s revisionism. They wanted to starve them out and were unhappy the Marines were going to be fed into the grinder.

I have never found convincing proof that the Army had given up on Downfall. They were still sending new Air Corps units to the Pacific and continuing to transition to new equipment in preparation for the invasion right up until the bombs were dropped.

As for the alternative, is starving a nation to death genocidal or not? Or was that plan ok because it was only the Japanese men, women & children that would have died rather than US troops?

140 Bubblehead II  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 12:33:19pm

Well since we’re discussing Nukes.

9 Air Force commanders fired over nuclear missile test cheating

Washington (CNN) — The Air Force has fired nine commanders in the wake of a scandal involving cheating on tests related to the U.S. nuclear missile program, that military branch’s top official said Thursday.

141 EPR-radar  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 12:33:59pm

re: #136 CuriousLurker

Again, I understand all that on a practical, intellectual level, but then no one in my family was killed or disfigured by fighting in WWII (though my dad did suffer from “shell shock” and subsequent PTSD-like symptoms after serving in the Marine Corps in the South Pacific Area). I’m talking about feelings—gut level, messy, not always rational emotions. I’m not sure I could get past that.

Fair point. I was responding to the emphasized bit below:

… can you honestly say you’re certain you would have cared how many millions of people on the other side of the world were saved?

142 HappyWarrior  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 12:34:02pm

re: #133 GunstarGreen

Aw, look at all those cute little knee-pads.

Wouldn’t want to scuff your suits or endure a few seconds of discomfort for Jesus, now would you?

My religion thinks knee pads are sinful.//

143 HappyWarrior  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 12:34:52pm

re: #135 dog philosopher

did reagan ever really understand what he was doing?

Honestly, I don’t know.

144 CuriousLurker  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 12:35:17pm

re: #109 William Barnett-Lewis

Thing to remember is that Japan still exists today because of those weapons. Had the Manhattan Project failed, it would have been Operation Downfall with the Olympus & Coronet invasions that would have pretty much done the Carthage thing to Japan. Look at Okinawa & Iwo Jima to understand what it would have been like over the whole nation.

Plus the Soviets would have loved an excuse to “liberate” the northern half ala North Korea.

Lastly, fewer died in Hiroshima and Nagasaki together than in the Tokyo fire bombing raids.

Overall, bizzaro as it may sound, nuclear weapons were a good thing for Japan.

Understood. All I can do is repeat my #136.

145 Romantic Heretic  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 12:36:09pm

re: #34 Mattand

You guys are infested with the worst humanity has to offer and they’re slowly being promoted to the top of the party, instead of being cast out.

WTF is wrong with you guys?

It’s because they have an ideology rather than a philosophy.

Ideology is not about being good but about being right. So they cannot face their problems. They might find out they were wrong.

146 GunstarGreen  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 12:36:32pm

My lord and savior got nailed to a cross, jabbed with pikes and bled out until he died so that I wouldn’t have to kneel on gravel for a couple of seconds while asking him to do some favors for me.

147 EPR-radar  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 12:37:56pm

re: #146 GunstarGreen

My lord and savior got nailed to a cross, jabbed with pikes and bled out until he died so that I wouldn’t have to kneel on gravel for a couple of seconds while asking him to do some favors for me screw over everyone else .

FTFY.

148 JustMark  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 12:38:40pm

re: #127 Pie-onist Overlord

Ted Cruz & entourage pray for the repeal of Obamacare just before they set fire to the government.

[Embedded content]

Is that Ashcroft with the scarf?

149 kirkspencer  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 12:39:13pm

re: #77 Pie-onist Overlord

What always fascinates me about that photo is the assumption of support of the marines.

They may have political biases, but anyone who thinks they’ll disobey the orders of the president is mistaken.

150 palmerskiss  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 12:39:23pm

re: #148 JustMark

Is that Ashcroft with the scarf?

an ashcott?

151 The Ghost of a Flea  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 12:41:04pm

re: #150 palmerskiss

an ashcott?

asscot

152 palmerskiss  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 12:41:34pm

re: #151 The Ghost of a Flea

asscot

heehee :D

153 GunstarGreen  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 12:41:41pm

re: #149 kirkspencer

What always fascinates me about that photo is the assumption of support of the marines.

They may have political biases, but anyone who thinks they’ll disobey the orders of the president is mistaken.

It’s just the standard-issue right-wing idiocy at work.

In the same vein as how they nigh-universally portray gay men as prancing fairies, which is pretty much the exact opposite of reality. Pretty much every gay man I’ve ever known has been of the “so fit he could probably tear you in half” variety, and the only way you’d ever know he was gay was if he told you so.

154 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 12:41:54pm

re: #149 kirkspencer

What always fascinates me about that photo is the assumption of support of the marines.

They may have political biases, but anyone who thinks they’ll disobey the orders of the president is mistaken.

It is this fixation on external symbols: to them, anyone in a uniform with a rifle and a buzz cut must be a true “patriot”, i.e., someone who espouses their views…

155 Romantic Heretic  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 12:42:36pm

re: #63 jaunte

Remember when Obama asked O’Reilly “What you guys are gonna have to figure out is … what are you gonna do when I’m gone?”

They really are building up a huge mob of haters, and I don’t think they can just stop and return to rationality when the president retires.

No, they can’t. Luckily for them, and unluckily for us, there is always people that can fill the role of monster to hate.

156 palmerskiss  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 12:42:36pm

re: #154 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

It is this fixation on external symbols: to them, anyone in a uniform with a rifle and a buzz cut must be a true “patriot”, i.e., someone who espouses their views…

thats why travis bickle will be the 2016 nominee…

157 kirkspencer  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 12:44:11pm

re: #153 GunstarGreen

It’s just the standard-issue right-wing idiocy at work.

In the same vein as how they nigh-universally portray gay men as prancing fairies, which is pretty much the exact opposite of reality. Pretty much every gay man I’ve ever known has been of the “so fit he could probably tear you in half” variety, and the only way you’d ever know he was gay was if he told you so.

Then I’m (sadly) going to suggest you don’t know many gay men. In general they are no more and no less fit than heterosexuals. Which is to say some are as you describe and others are the epitome of couch potatoes.

That’s actually part of the fear, you know. Shades of body snatchers and other pod people, as unlike ‘those people’ you cannot tell if someone is gay by looking at them.

158 GunstarGreen  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 12:46:15pm

re: #157 kirkspencer

Then I’m (sadly) going to suggest you don’t know many gay men. In general they are no more and no less fit than heterosexuals. Which is to say some are as you describe and others are the epitome of couch potatoes.

That’s actually part of the fear, you know. Shades of body snatchers and other pod people, as unlike ‘those people’ you cannot tell if someone is gay by looking at them.

Yeah, I don’t know many. I’m just relating my personal experiences on the matter. Point is: stereotypes are dumb, because reality constantly proves them wrong. You can’t look at a person and tell what their sexuality is, because it has nothing to do with their body.

159 HappyWarrior  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 12:46:20pm

re: #153 GunstarGreen

It’s just the standard-issue right-wing idiocy at work.

In the same vein as how they nigh-universally portray gay men as prancing fairies, which is pretty much the exact opposite of reality. Pretty much every gay man I’ve ever known has been of the “so fit he could probably tear you in half” variety, and the only way you’d ever know he was gay was if he told you so.

But yet in another breath they want to blame gays for the raise of Nazism. So are gays limp wristed sissies who any conservative manly man could beat up or are they the Nazis who we need to put down before they implement Gay Nazism on us. Conservatives are so fucking confused. They just don’t get that gay people are just like anyone else. They can be fit, they can be skinny, they can be fat. They’re people and some of them are Marines too.

160 Romantic Heretic  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 12:47:06pm

re: #65 HappyWarrior

Not a problem but yeah MacArthur made the decision as military governor of Japan to keep Hirohito away from prosecution and not to stand trial like Tojo and the others did. There are some who say that this was the right move since the emperor has for centuries played a vital role in Japanese life but others feel that Hirohito was just as guilty as Tojo. It’s tough for me to say. My knowledge of WWII is more in the European theater.

My read is blaming Hirohito for the war would be like blaming Queen Elizabeth. It was the military, especially the Army, that ran the country. And the Army would have murdered Hirohito in a second if he had stood against them.

They were all ‘double patriots’ who ‘served the Emperor’s true desires.’ It was just bullshit to exude what they were doing but the military ran the country.

The Imperial Japanese Army is why I call the Oathkeepers ‘double patriots.’

161 palmerskiss  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 12:47:17pm

re: #159 HappyWarrior

But yet in another breath they want to blame gays for the raise of Nazism. So are gays limp wristed sissies who any conservative manly man could beat up or are they the Nazis who we need to put down before they implement Gay Nazism on us. Conservatives are so fucking confused. They just don’t get that gay people are just like anyone else. They can be fit, they can be skinny, they can be fat. They’re people and some of them are Marines too.

that is scott lively’s doing mostly.

162 kirkspencer  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 12:48:31pm

re: #154 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

It is this fixation on external symbols: to them, anyone in a uniform with a rifle and a buzz cut must be a true “patriot”, i.e., someone who espouses their views…

Yes.

Some years ago I was active on Baen’s bar. There was a period when I had to remind people, one of whom had actually worked with me while we both served, that I was a military veteran every couple of weeks. I’d espouse a liberal position, get told if I had been in the army I’d know better, reference previous posts (to include actually showing someone my DD214), and get an ‘oh’. A couple of weeks later the SAME PEOPLE would say if I had been in the military …

When the great Bar Crash of whenever it was happened (2002?), I didn’t bother to renew my account. The signal wasn’t worth the noise.

163 Romantic Heretic  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 12:51:17pm

re: #74 HappyWarrior

I think many do but remember those are the only two times in history that they have been used. I think Truman made the right decision in the end but it is easy for me to say that as an American and not a resident of Japan that may have family that was killed in the blast or sick for years afterward. Not arguing about the decision, it’s just easier to understand it from an American perspective.

I don’t believe it was necessary to invade at all.

Japan was pretty much isolated from the world. It couldn’t import enough raw materials to keep its military going and its people were on the edge of starvation.

The Allies could have waited. Eventually Japan would have surrendered.

Mind you, that would have probably cost more Japanese lives than Fat Man and Little Boy caused, but when I fight wars I worry about my own people rather than my opponents.

164 HappyWarrior  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 12:51:43pm

re: #161 palmerskiss

that is scott lively’s doing mostly.

Yeah. The whole pink swastika silliness.

165 CuriousLurker  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 12:52:58pm

re: #141 EPR-radar

Fair point. I was responding to the emphasized bit below:

… can you honestly say you’re certain you would have cared how many millions of people on the other side of the world were saved?

Ah, okay—I didn’t realize that. I’m not a pacifist, but I really, really, really hate war. My overactive imagination combined with powerful imagery (like war photos) can often trigger extremely strong feelings of empathy in me. Sometimes I can’t get past them—sometimes, I’m not sure I should want to.

166 Decatur Deb  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 12:54:04pm

re: #60 CuriousLurker

This is true. Regardless of the circumstances and what was at stake during WWII, whenever I look at photos of Hiroshima & Nagasaki I’m not at all convinced that I’d be able to forgive a country that did that to me & mine.

Because thermite is so much more civilized.

Image: Firebombing_of_Tokyo.jpg

167 palmerskiss  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 12:54:24pm

re: #164 HappyWarrior

Yeah. The whole pink swastika silliness.

he is surely, a spooky evil asshole. mr. lively lives not far from here - a couple of hours - i call his ‘holy grounds’ coffee shop once in a while to have a nice chat with his wacked out employees.

168 CuriousLurker  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 12:55:07pm

re: #166 Decatur Deb

Because thermite is so much more civilized.

Image: Firebombing_of_Tokyo.jpg

Read the rest of my responses, please.

169 Ryan King  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 1:00:46pm

re: #11 Charles Johnson

Yes. This kind of crazed hate speech is very popular on right wing Twitter. The worst creeps often have tens of thousands of followers.

The coarsening speech, 140 characters at a time.

170 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 1:01:49pm

re: #166 Decatur Deb

Because thermite is so much more civilized.

Image: Firebombing_of_Tokyo.jpg

As I said upthread, both a-bombs _combined_ killed fewer people than did the firebombing of Tokyo.

171 Decatur Deb  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 1:02:07pm

re: #168 CuriousLurker

Read the rest of my responses, please.

Just did. When you have decided that a few hundred thousand would be usefully incinerated, the choice of fuel is not your most salient moral issue.

172 EPR-radar  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 1:04:22pm

Another way of looking at this is that war has been hell for a very long time. Nukes do nothing to change that.

What nukes do change is that large scale destruction can be unleashed without the usual business of mobilizing for total war. This makes them terribly dangerous.

173 Decatur Deb  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 1:06:27pm

re: #172 EPR-radar

Another way of looking at this is that war has been hell for a very long time. Nukes do nothing to change that.

What nukes do change is that large scale destruction can be unleashed without the usual business of mobilizing for total war. This makes them terribly dangerous.

They are also the holy grail of pacifists—finally a weapon so obviously dangerous that almost no one wants to use one.

174 EPR-radar  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 1:11:02pm

re: #173 Decatur Deb

They are also the holy grail of pacifists—finally a weapon so obviously dangerous that almost no one wants to use one.

Without the nuclear arsenals of the US and USSR providing mutual assured destruction, it is difficult to imagine that we would have avoided WWIII as a US vs. USSR war.

Had WWII ended without the use of nuclear weapons, WWIII would most likely have started with a mass nuclear exchange. Military establishments on both sides would have been eager to use nukes in battle.

175 CuriousLurker  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 1:11:23pm

re: #171 Decatur Deb

Just did. When you have decided that a few hundred thousand would be usefully incinerated, the choice of fuel is not your most salient moral issue.

E gad. I guess that goes to the very heart of why I find war photos so disturbing: The fact that we—and by “we” I don’t mean just the United States I mean all nations, ethnicities, tribes, whatever—can and do decide the the lives of other human beings are expendable.

176 Decatur Deb  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 1:15:26pm

re: #174 EPR-radar

Without the nuclear arsenals of the US and USSR providing mutual assured destruction, it is difficult to imagine that we would have avoided WWIII as a US vs. USSR war.

Had WWII ended without the use of nuclear weapons, WWIII would most likely have started with a mass nuclear exchange. Military establishments on both sides would have been eager to use nukes in battle.

Yes—and the social consequences of a conventionally-armed cold war would have turned us into an impoverished militarized Sparta. All the progress of the last 70 years was made possible by thousands of unused nukes.

177 ObserverArt  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 2:13:28pm

Regarding the use of nuclear bombs on Japan, I wanted to bring up what may have been another reason for their use.

A demonstration to the rest of the world. A demonstration to show both our (USA) power of having them already developed and ready to go and to show the world (Russia!) that we would use them. Also a demonstration to show the world how powerful and ghastly they were.

As others have said, after their use none of them have been used again* and that was part of the outcome hoped for by their use. I do believe that was a part of the discussions for their use. It was not all about ending WW2 with Japan.

* Side note…I am not positive, but are there not very limited tactical nuke weapons that have been used? Was there not some conjecture that the USA may have used some weaponry that used nuclear elements. Such as nuke tipped (spent uranium?) anti-tank missiles that burn through armor. I thought I had heard they were part of the weapons that turned the Iraq “Highway of Death” into a steaming hulk of burnt tanks and other armored vehicles. I also heard some of the carnage even took its toll on some of our own soldiers when they too saw the results. Also considered another demonstration to the world of our (USA) military power.

178 Decatur Deb  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 2:19:43pm

re: #177 ObserverArt

No, none have been used tactically. IIRC there was one attempt to use a small nuke as a peaceful excavating tool—Project Plowshare. The depleted uranium rounds are not a fission device. The material is chosen for it’s very high density, yielding the needed kinetic effect. (It’s also pyrophoric, burning the hell out of anything it pierces.) The mild radioactive and highly toxic characteristics are not at all desired—makes post combat cleanup a mess.

179 ObserverArt  Thu, Mar 27, 2014 2:52:14pm

re: #178 Decatur Deb

No, none have been used tactically. IIRC there was one attempt to use a small nuke as a peaceful excavating tool—Project Plowshare. The depleted uranium rounds are not a fission device. The material is chosen for it’s very high density, yielding the needed kinetic effect. (It’s also pyrophoric, burning the hell out of anything it pierces.) The mild radioactive and highly toxic characteristics are not at all desired—makes post combat cleanup a mess.

Thanks for the response. Pointing out the depleted uranium rounds are not considered fusion clears it up. I was unaware of the designation difference. Yeah, that bit about them being pyrophoric and burning the hell out of everything is what I was saying about their use took its toll on some of our own soldiers. I understand some of the scenes they came across were extremely grim. I came across some images one time in a search on the ‘net and they were bad enough. I’m sure much of the really bad stuff will never be seen, thankfully.


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