A new blog is keeping an eye on the biased stories about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict that continue to pour out of one of the world’s main sources of news: Reuters Middle East Watch.
3 |
Ringo the Gringo Sun, Aug 30, 2009 6:26:16pm |
Who’s responsible for creating this site, anyone know?
| 6 |
Ringo the Gringo Sun, Aug 30, 2009 6:29:13pm |
I wonder why they have limited themselves to Reuters when the BBC is even worse?
| 7 |
itellu3times Sun, Aug 30, 2009 6:30:22pm |
Site is full of facts and logic.
Obviously Mossad.
/
| 8 |
pre-Boomer Marine brat Sun, Aug 30, 2009 6:31:30pm |
Canary Wharf probably won’t even notice this blog gnawing on its ankle.
Self-righteousness is a powerful narcotic.
| 9 |
pre-Boomer Marine brat Sun, Aug 30, 2009 6:32:17pm |
re: #7 itellu3times
Site is full of facts and logic.
Obviously Mossad.
/
Why Mossad.
It makes me mohappy!
| 10 |
reine.de.tout Sun, Aug 30, 2009 6:32:23pm |
re: #5 Sharmuta
Wonderful! It’s been a long time coming.
I agree 100%
Now we just have to wonder when the “Reuters Middle East Watch Watch”, and “Reuters Middle East Watch Watch Watch” sites will come out.
| 11 |
livefreeor die Sun, Aug 30, 2009 6:34:50pm |
re: #10 reine.de.tout
I agree 100%
Now we just have to wonder when the “Reuters Middle East Watch Watch”, and “Reuters Middle East Watch Watch Watch” sites will come out.
As soon as they can get the anti-Semitic bee and Martyr Mouse to sign on.
| 14 |
haakondahl Sun, Aug 30, 2009 6:39:34pm |
I thought that said Reuters Middle-Earth Watch, and was prepared to see them shilling for Sauron.
| 15 |
mikeymom Sun, Aug 30, 2009 6:41:10pm |
re: #13 itellu3times
Reutersy.
In bed.
Reuters 2.0
please guys-enuf with the in bed stuff-was funny for the first hour—now-not so much. thx
| 16 |
lawhawk Sun, Aug 30, 2009 6:43:09pm |
Reuters ME coverage is indeed pitifully poor, but not any better than its peer wire service, AP, or other news outlets like CNN or AFP. Ally rely far too much on stringers who are pursuing their own propaganda agendas and care too little about striving to report the news accurately to weed out the propaganda that regularly fills reports filed under both. They’re already on to the next “get” before they can even be bothered to check for photo edit hack jobs or terrorists’ propaganda claimed as news.
Editors at the ME bureaus of these services don’t seem to care that they’re being used in this fashion, or worse - are complicit in allowing it to happen. It’s something that must be addressed - and any effort to unveil the bias in ME reporting will be useful.
| 17 |
Vicious Babushka Sun, Aug 30, 2009 6:43:35pm |
Added to my blogroll, in place of the blog (not to be mentioned) that deleted “Vicious Babushka” from its blogroll and put the stalker site in its place.
| 18 |
MJ Sun, Aug 30, 2009 6:45:17pm |
re: #6 Ringo the Gringo
I wonder why they have limited themselves to Reuters when the BBC is even worse?
This is a very good site which monitors the BBC:
[Link: www.biased-bbc.blogspot.com…]
| 19 |
itellu3times Sun, Aug 30, 2009 6:46:59pm |
re: #16 lawhawk
Aren’t you being too generous here? We know AP edits at least for the convenience for reuse in Arab markets where only the most horribly biased material is allowed. Ditto Reuters seems to have positive guidelines that they assert are “even-handed” but look entirely biased from here, assuming Israeli guilt before a new issue is even named.
I can’t really see blaming it on the stringers.
| 20 |
yochanan Sun, Aug 30, 2009 6:47:17pm |
| 21 |
yochanan Sun, Aug 30, 2009 6:48:11pm |
re: #16 lawhawk
don’t forget the bbc aka b’tch, bastards centre
| 22 |
Killgore Trout Sun, Aug 30, 2009 6:48:40pm |
It’s a pretty new site. Looks like they’re doing good work so far.
| 23 |
MJ Sun, Aug 30, 2009 6:49:42pm |
Roger Simon had an interesting column the other day on the media:
Europe travel advisory: Al Jazeera better than CNN
[Link: pajamasmedia.com…]
| 24 |
MJ Sun, Aug 30, 2009 6:52:59pm |
This is another site which should be bookmarked by everyone:
CiF Watch
Lies, Big Lies and Comment is Free
[Link: cifwatch.com…]
| 26 |
MandyManners Sun, Aug 30, 2009 6:57:32pm |
Do ShortShit, the Chinless Opthamologist and Khadaffy have bad dreams of avenging angels in blue?
| 27 |
NelsFree Sun, Aug 30, 2009 6:58:20pm |
Let us not forget MEMRI:
Mid-East Media Research Institute
[Link: memri.org…]
| 28 |
Kosh's Shadow Sun, Aug 30, 2009 7:00:36pm |
Anyone else watching Futurama: Into the wild green yonder?
Leela joins feminist eco terrorists in pink, while Fry joins a group of tinfoil hat wackos.
| 29 |
livefreeor die Sun, Aug 30, 2009 7:02:11pm |
re: #28 Kosh’s Shadow
Anyone else watching Futurama: Into the wild green yonder?
Leela joins feminist eco terrorists in pink, while Fry joins a group of tinfoil hat wackos.
So they’re visiting the Capitol?
| 30 |
Killgore Trout Sun, Aug 30, 2009 7:03:12pm |
Another ex-Republican making some noise…
Why I Am Anti-Republican
by Bruce Bartlett
That has left lunatics like Glenn Beck as the party’s de facto leaders. As long as that remains the case, I want nothing to do with the GOP.
I will know that the party is on the path to recovery when someone in a position of influence reaches out to former Republicans like me. We are the most likely group among independents to vote Republican. But I see no effort to do so. All I see is pandering to the party’s crazies like the birthers .
If a tree falls in the forest… etc.
| 32 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Sun, Aug 30, 2009 7:04:57pm |
Well, you know, bash Israel loudly page one for weeks…
Grudging retraction page four, in the middle of an article about rabbit farms in the Ukraine.
| 33 |
MJ Sun, Aug 30, 2009 7:06:02pm |
re: #30 Killgore Trout
Another ex-Republican making some noise…
Why I Am Anti-Republicanby Bruce Bartlett
If a tree falls in the forest… etc.
This was a good sign:
GOP blasts Idaho candidate’s ‘Obama tags’ comment
BOISE, Idaho — The list of Idaho Republicans condemning a GOP gubernatorial candidate’s comments about buying a license to hunt President Barack Obama grew Friday, as party leaders worried the incident would reflect badly on the state…
[Link: www.google.com…]
| 34 |
livefreeor die Sun, Aug 30, 2009 7:07:16pm |
re: #32 LudwigVanQuixote
Well, you know, bash Israel loudly page one for weeks…
Grudging retraction page four, in the middle of an article about rabbit farms in the Ukraine.
Oh good, everyone will notice it there.
/
| 35 |
jaunte Sun, Aug 30, 2009 7:08:23pm |
re: #30 Killgore Trout
Another ex-Republican making some noise…
Why I Am Anti-Republican
I will know that the party is on the path to recovery when someone in a position of influence reaches out to former Republicans like me. We are the most likely group among independents to vote Republican. But I see no effort to do so. All I see is pandering to the party’s crazies like the birthers . In the short run that may be enough to pick up a few congressional seats next year, but I see no way a Republican can retake the White House for the foreseeable future.
Good piece, thanks for posting.
| 37 |
Killgore Trout Sun, Aug 30, 2009 7:12:10pm |
re: #33 MJ
Risch, has refused to apologize and said he doesn’t advocate assassinating Obama.
“Anyone who understands the law knows I was just joking, because Idaho has no jurisdiction to issue hunting tags in Washington D.C.,” he said.
Ugh. What a dick.
| 38 |
Spare O'Lake Sun, Aug 30, 2009 7:14:39pm |
So folks are surprised that the left wing of the Republican Party is prone to swing to the Dems when the Dems are in power?
| 39 |
zombie Sun, Aug 30, 2009 7:14:43pm |
re: #37 Killgore Trout
Ugh. What a dick.
If I had the gumption, I’d add that “gaffe” to the Coutner-Examples section of my previous zomblog post (about presidential death threats). Such jokes should not be made, whether it be by John Kerry or some equally clueless Republican.
| 40 |
Killgore Trout Sun, Aug 30, 2009 7:19:20pm |
re: #36 zombie
Interesting…
And I suppose the funding for these propaganda materials comes from Obama fans donating to his campaign fund — right? Right? (Anyone who has any info about this topic, please post it in the comments section below, because I’m truly curious.)
I think there’s a White House office for this. Remember when Bush got busted producing news segments that ran on some TV stations? Bush kinda sucked at promoting his own agenda so he really didn’t do much blatant PR efforts.
Anyway, it seems that this style of governance is almost unprecedented in American history. I don’t recall there being any propaganda materials manufactured and distributed by the Bush campaign itself to promote the No Child Left Behind Act, the invasion of Afghanistan or Bush’s tax cuts.
Remember the Talking Points scandals? The Bush administration would issue talking points to various government officials so even if they were asked about Iraq during an interview they’d change the subject to Homeland Security or something.
As for bumper stickers and buses that does seem new. Not sure where the money comes from. Maybe part of the press office.
| 41 |
Gus Sun, Aug 30, 2009 7:26:56pm |
re: #33 MJ
[Link: www.google.com…]
Rex Rammell is a “libertarian leaning” conservative. On the issues from 2008:
Adamantly against abortion at any stage of pregnancy.
Ten Principles to Govern America, based on God’s inspiration.
Establish the sanctity of marriage in Constitution.
[Link: www.ontheissues.org…]
| 42 |
zombie Sun, Aug 30, 2009 7:27:48pm |
re: #40 Killgore Trout
Talking points — sure. That’s standard operating procedure in political parties. The Democrats are lockstep in their own talking points at the moment — though it’s unclear who’s dictating them — whether it be the White House, Nancy Pelosi, or MoveOn/PACs.
As for the Bush TV spots - - I don’t remember that. But it’s not really the same thing - - I’m talking about tangible propaganda materials, rather than just propaganda itself, which all presidents promulgate to the best of their ability, and to the extent that the media cooperates.
| 44 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Aug 30, 2009 7:29:26pm |
re: #36 zombie
New at zomblog:
Government-issued Health Care Bill propaganda: The presidency devolves into a neverending campaign
Great stuff, Zombie. I may actually have chance to attend a town hall tomorrow. That being the case, I would like to ask my fellow lizards for a question to ask. Please do remember that I am a conservative who does not favor the public option but also won’t fire off hostile or abusive questions either.
| 45 |
zombie Sun, Aug 30, 2009 7:29:51pm |
re: #41 Gus 802
Rex Rammell is a “libertarian leaning” conservative. On the issues from 2008:
..but…
Adamantly against abortion at any stage of pregnancy.
In what way does promoting government intrusion in the doctor’s office legitimately count as “libertarian”?
Sounds like a phony libertarian to me.
| 46 |
jaunte Sun, Aug 30, 2009 7:30:00pm |
re: #42 zombie
Here’s one way to find out:
AKPD Message and Media, a leading political firm and pioneer in New Media, is seeking to fill four New Media positions.
AKPD has represented Democratic candidates and progressive causes for over 20 years, and most recently led the successful creation and execution of Barack Obama’s presidential campaign. You can learn more at [Link: www.akpdmedia.com….]
These positions will be based out of our Washington, D.C. office and will begin immediately.[Link: jobs.searchenginewatch.com…]
| 47 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Aug 30, 2009 7:30:23pm |
| 48 |
Gus Sun, Aug 30, 2009 7:30:58pm |
re: #45 zombie
In what way does promoting government intrusion in the doctor’s office legitimately count as “libertarian”?
Sounds like a phony libertarian to me.
A lot of them are. I just came across a few citations calling him “libertarian leaning.”
| 49 |
zombie Sun, Aug 30, 2009 7:31:05pm |
re: #46 jaunte
Here’s one way to find out:
Hmmm, I’d have to move to DC for that job. I don’t quite have that level of dedication…
| 50 |
livefreeor die Sun, Aug 30, 2009 7:31:34pm |
re: #44 Dark_Falcon
Great stuff, Zombie. I may actually have chance to attend a town hall tomorrow. That being the case, I would like to ask my fellow lizards for a question to ask. Please do remember that I am a conservative who does not favor the public option but also won’t fire off hostile or abusive questions either.
“We hear there are several different bills floating around. Which one of them do you favor?”
| 52 |
cliffster Sun, Aug 30, 2009 7:32:26pm |
re: #44 Dark_Falcon
Great stuff, Zombie. I may actually have chance to attend a town hall tomorrow. That being the case, I would like to ask my fellow lizards for a question to ask. Please do remember that I am a conservative who does not favor the public option but also won’t fire off hostile or abusive questions either.
How about this… “WTF??”
| 53 |
zombie Sun, Aug 30, 2009 7:32:43pm |
re: #51 jaunte
Maybe you can enlist a “DC stringer.”
Almost made a joke about a “DC Stinger,” but bit my tongue in time.
| 54 |
njdhockeyfan Sun, Aug 30, 2009 7:32:58pm |
re: #44 Dark_Falcon
Great stuff, Zombie. I may actually have chance to attend a town hall tomorrow. That being the case, I would like to ask my fellow lizards for a question to ask. Please do remember that I am a conservative who does not favor the public option but also won’t fire off hostile or abusive questions either.
Which politician is hosting the town hall?
| 55 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sun, Aug 30, 2009 7:33:02pm |
re: #47 Dark_Falcon
Nope.
Are you sure? This one is big, and I don’t want to hijack the thread too soon.
| 56 |
experiencedtraveller Sun, Aug 30, 2009 7:35:24pm |
re: #49 zombie
Hmmm, I’d have to move to DC for that job. I don’t quite have that level of dedication…
But dear Zombie! Think of the renumeration! I just visited the swamp on the Potomac and I assure that easier money cannot be found.
| 57 |
The Shadow Do Sun, Aug 30, 2009 7:36:08pm |
re: #44 Dark_Falcon
Great stuff, Zombie. I may actually have chance to attend a town hall tomorrow. That being the case, I would like to ask my fellow lizards for a question to ask. Please do remember that I am a conservative who does not favor the public option but also won’t fire off hostile or abusive questions either.
Not to butt in, but here is a very short piece from Heritage Inst.-
Should be a valid question or two to be found:
By the very nature of its ‘public’ status, that plan would have serious advantages over its private competitors. Because it would be backed by the federal government, the public plan would be viewed by many consumers as safe and secure. Individuals could trust the public plan to ‘be there for them when it counts.’ The plan would benefit from billions in federal subsidies not offered to private plans. At first, there would be federal ‘seed’ money to force the public plan into established insurance markets. Later, Congress could be counted on to prop up the public plan if it faltered. The plan would be too important to fail regardless of the debt it accrued, since failure would mean millions of people losing coverage from a highly visible government program.
| 58 |
zombie Sun, Aug 30, 2009 7:36:48pm |
re: #44 Dark_Falcon
Great stuff, Zombie. I may actually have chance to attend a town hall tomorrow. That being the case, I would like to ask my fellow lizards for a question to ask. Please do remember that I am a conservative who does not favor the public option but also won’t fire off hostile or abusive questions either.
Maybe you can ask the question that a lot of Coloradans are demanding in El Marco’s report:
“Health Care for All Must Include Medical Marijuana.”
..and…
“Mandate Medical Marijuana.”
So the question would be:
“Will the Health Care Bill compel the government to pay for patients’ marijuana, in states that have medical marijuana laws? And if not, how can you justify rejecting coverage of some medicines but not others?”
| 59 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Aug 30, 2009 7:38:35pm |
re: #54 njdhockeyfan
Which politician is hosting the town hall?
Jan Schakowsky. Quite liberal. She’ll vote for it no matter what, but I’d like to give people something to think about.
| 60 |
Mich-again Sun, Aug 30, 2009 7:39:03pm |
re: #36 zombie
It says right on the bus who is behind the campaign. Its associated with BarrackObama.com The group behind the health care campaign is Organizing for America, a Project of the Democratic National Committee. I like the disclaimer on the ad.
This communication is not authorized by any candidate or candidate’s committee.
You got that? A communication from a committee on a candidate’s website is not authorized by any candidate’s committee. Yeah right.
| 61 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Aug 30, 2009 7:39:23pm |
re: #57 The Shadow Do
I like it! That’s something I’ll try to use.
| 62 |
livefreeor die Sun, Aug 30, 2009 7:39:39pm |
re: #58 zombie
Maybe you can ask the question that a lot of Coloradans are demanding in El Marco’s report:
“Health Care for All Must Include Medical Marijuana.”
..and…
“Mandate Medical Marijuana.”
So the question would be:
“Will the Health Care Bill compel the government to pay for patients’ marijuana, in states that have medical marijuana laws? And if not, how can you justify rejecting coverage of some medicines but not others?”
So now I’m paying for other people’s mortgages and cars and soon I’ll be paying for their pot?
Change!
| 63 |
MandyManners Sun, Aug 30, 2009 7:40:33pm |
re: #36 zombie
New at zomblog:
Government-issued Health Care Bill propaganda: The presidency devolves into a neverending campaign
The perpetual campaign was a given.
| 65 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Aug 30, 2009 7:41:48pm |
re: #55 Slumbering Behemoth
Are you sure? This one is big, and I don’t want to hijack the thread too soon.
Post it. If it’s big, let’s get to it early.
| 66 |
zombie Sun, Aug 30, 2009 7:42:47pm |
re: #60 Mich-again
It says right on the bus who is behind the campaign. Its associated with BarrackObama.com The group behind the health care campaign is Organizing for America, a Project of the Democratic National Committee. I like the disclaimer on the ad.
You got that? A communication from a committee on a candidate’s website is not authorized by any candidate’s committee. Yeah right.
Yeah, “This communication is not authorized by any candidate or candidate’s committee.” That’s really believable.
| 67 |
Killgore Trout Sun, Aug 30, 2009 7:44:34pm |
re: #42 zombie
Bush ‘planted fake news stories on American TV’
Federal authorities are actively investigating dozens of American television stations for broadcasting items produced by the Bush administration and major corporations, and passing them off as normal news. Some of the fake news segments talked up success in the war in Iraq, or promoted the companies’ products.
My point was that these reports were produced by the White House by whatever department handles PR. They probably have a budget so so if you search around you can probably figure out what depart that is. Obama is using it for bumper stickers and buses. Not surprising since he seems to always be campaigning.
| 68 |
Sharmuta Sun, Aug 30, 2009 7:44:51pm |
re: #55 Slumbering Behemoth
Are you sure? This one is big, and I don’t want to hijack the thread too soon.
It’s a little late for that.
| 69 |
Killgore Trout Sun, Aug 30, 2009 7:45:57pm |
re: #60 Mich-again
Ah, it says right at the bottom that it’s the DNC. Mystery solved.
| 70 |
Mich-again Sun, Aug 30, 2009 7:46:28pm |
re: #66 zombie
It appears Obama is using his extra campaign cash to promote his legislation through the sham front group “Organizing for America”.
That sounds better than “paid for by the Committee to Re-elect Barack Obama” which is what Organizing for America actually is.
| 71 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sun, Aug 30, 2009 7:46:40pm |
| 72 |
njdhockeyfan Sun, Aug 30, 2009 7:46:48pm |
re: #59 Dark_Falcon
Jan Schakowsky. Quite liberal. She’ll vote for it no matter what, but I’d like to give people something to think about.
Maybe you can ask her why she supports the destruction of the private health insurance industry.
Dem Congresswoman Admits Obama Health Care Plan Will Destroy Private Health Insurance Industry
| 73 |
Killgore Trout Sun, Aug 30, 2009 7:46:49pm |
re: #66 zombie
It’s the DNC. The GOP does the same stuff; sending out mailers, robocalls, etc.
| 74 |
victor_yugo Sun, Aug 30, 2009 7:48:01pm |
| 75 |
Mich-again Sun, Aug 30, 2009 7:48:52pm |
re: #73 Killgore Trout
It’s the DNC. The GOP does the same stuff; sending out mailers, robocalls, etc.
I’m not so sure its the DNC paying for it. The group is part and parcel of BarackObama.com. The question is, whose money paid for that tour bus. I doubt Howie Dean splurged for that.
| 76 |
victor_yugo Sun, Aug 30, 2009 7:48:52pm |
re: #72 njdhockeyfan
Maybe you can ask her why she supports the destruction of the private health insurance industry.
Dem Congresswoman Admits Obama Health Care Plan Will Destroy Private Health Insurance Industry
Except for her own, of course.
| 77 |
Shiplord Kirel Sun, Aug 30, 2009 7:48:56pm |
re: #41 Gus 802
[Link: www.ontheissues.org…]
Barry Goldwater is rolling over in his grave; nay, revolving at such a rate that the gyroscopic force alone may cause him to rise from ground and fly straight to DC and denounce the pusillanimous GOP leadership for not standing up to these kooks. We can hope anyway. I don’t see much else at this point.
| 78 |
Erik The Red Sun, Aug 30, 2009 7:49:27pm |
| 79 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Aug 30, 2009 7:50:05pm |
| 80 |
livefreeor die Sun, Aug 30, 2009 7:50:16pm |
| 81 |
TheMatrix31 Sun, Aug 30, 2009 7:51:04pm |
Clear that Jan Whatever-sky is a bitch.
What an idiot.
| 82 |
Shiplord Kirel Sun, Aug 30, 2009 7:52:08pm |
Maybe Teddy Roosevelt will come down from Mount Rushmore to rescue the GOP, sort of like the Sta-Puft marshmallow guy in Ghostbusters but wielding a VERY big stick indeed.
| 83 |
Killgore Trout Sun, Aug 30, 2009 7:52:16pm |
re: #75 Mich-again
I’m not so sure its the DNC paying for it. The group is part and parcel of BarackObama.com.
It say in the lower left of the website…
A project of the Democratic National Committee.
I don’t think there’s much mystery to be had here. DNC has plent of money for buses and bumper stickers.
| 84 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Aug 30, 2009 7:52:38pm |
re: #72 njdhockeyfan
Maybe you can ask her why she supports the destruction of the private health insurance industry.
Dem Congresswoman Admits Obama Health Care Plan Will Destroy Private Health Insurance Industry
I think i’d better stick with Shadow do’s question. I need a question that doesn’t sound like a gotcha.
| 85 |
victor_yugo Sun, Aug 30, 2009 7:52:47pm |
re: #82 Shiplord Kirel
Maybe Teddy Roosevelt will come down from Mount Rushmore to rescue the GOP, sort of like the Sta-Puft marshmallow guy in Ghostbusters but wielding a VERY big stick indeed.
It was just Robin Williams with a big moustache.
| 86 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sun, Aug 30, 2009 7:52:52pm |
re: #78 Erik The Red
Washington’s bit at the end is the best.
| 87 |
Gus Sun, Aug 30, 2009 7:53:04pm |
re: #77 Shiplord Kirel
Barry Goldwater is rolling over in his grave; nay, revolving at such a rate that the gyroscopic force alone may cause him to rise from ground and fly straight to DC and denounce the pusillanimous GOP leadership for not standing up to these kooks. We can hope anyway. I don’t see much else at this point.
There’s more actually. Here’s a statement in Rex Rammell’s web page regarding global warming:
I see no down side to a slight increase in the temperature to the globe. The catastrophic consequences predicted by the doomsayers are evidence of their lack of faith in a Supreme Being who holds the creation and the future of the world in His hands.
So according to Rex AGW proponents merely lack faith in creation.
| 88 |
Mich-again Sun, Aug 30, 2009 7:54:21pm |
Ha. Here is the Youtube video of Obama announcing the creation of “Organizing for America” Its going to be a grass roots organization of ordinary Americans. Yeah right. With $500,000 tour buses in the parking lot!
| 89 |
victor_yugo Sun, Aug 30, 2009 7:54:29pm |
re: #87 Gus 802
So according to Rex AGW proponents merely lack faith in creation.
No, they lack faith in the Creator, not the creation.
Not that AGW has anything to do with either.
| 90 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Aug 30, 2009 7:54:31pm |
re: #81 TheMatrix31
Clear that Jan Whatever-sky is a bitch.
What an idiot.
She’s the congresscritter I’m stuck with for now. She may run for the Senate, though. In which case the seat might be winnable, though it would require a moderate willing to take some liberal positions.
| 91 |
jorline Sun, Aug 30, 2009 7:54:33pm |
re: #82 Shiplord Kirel
Maybe Teddy Roosevelt will come down from Mount Rushmore to rescue the GOP, sort of like the Sta-Puft marshmallow guy in Ghostbusters but wielding a VERY big stick indeed.
Stinky is related to Teddy Roosevelt?
| 92 |
Shiplord Kirel Sun, Aug 30, 2009 7:55:08pm |
| 93 |
Gus Sun, Aug 30, 2009 7:55:15pm |
re: #89 victor_yugo
No, they lack faith in the Creator, not the creation.
Not that AGW has anything to do with either.
OK, creator. I was trying to be polite.
| 94 |
The Shadow Do Sun, Aug 30, 2009 7:55:29pm |
Playing off the focus of the Kennedy funeral on the Gospel of Matthew’s parable of Jesus taking care of “the least of us,” Gore thundered that the country has “a moral duty to pass health care reform. This year.”
| 95 |
Sharmuta Sun, Aug 30, 2009 7:56:18pm |
re: #94 The Shadow Do
I think they have a moral duty to balance the budget, but that’s just me.
| 96 |
Desert Dog Sun, Aug 30, 2009 7:56:23pm |
| 97 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Aug 30, 2009 7:56:39pm |
re: #87 Gus 802
So according to Rex AGW proponents merely lack faith in creation.
Creationism isn’t just against evolution, but rather it is against all science. Rex is just spewing his Bad Craziness into a new arena.
| 98 |
Gus Sun, Aug 30, 2009 7:56:53pm |
| 99 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Aug 30, 2009 7:57:32pm |
| 100 |
Mich-again Sun, Aug 30, 2009 7:57:34pm |
re: #83 Killgore Trout
I don’t think there’s much mystery to be had here. DNC has plent of money for buses and bumper stickers.
It was probably Obama’s extra campaign cash. Would the DNC really just hand over their cash and control of the organization to Obama? Why else would it only exist on Obama’s own website.
| 101 |
Bobblehead Sun, Aug 30, 2009 7:58:37pm |
Funny signs from around the world.
[Link: www.telegraph.co.uk…]
[Link: www.telegraph.co.uk…]
[Link: www.telegraph.co.uk…]
[Link: www.telegraph.co.uk…]
[Link: www.telegraph.co.uk…]
| 102 |
TheMatrix31 Sun, Aug 30, 2009 7:58:40pm |
re: #100 Mich-again
It was probably Obama’s extra campaign cash. Would the DNC really just hand over their cash and control of the organization to Obama? Why else would it only exist on Obama’s own website.
Yeah, must be nice to get a bunch of sheep to donate you a billion dollars, eh?
| 104 |
Desert Dog Sun, Aug 30, 2009 7:59:44pm |
re: #101 Bobblehead
Funny signs from around the world.
[Link: www.telegraph.co.uk…]
[Link: www.telegraph.co.uk…]
[Link: www.telegraph.co.uk…]
[Link: www.telegraph.co.uk…]
[Link: www.telegraph.co.uk…]
I have a jumbo pack of Fartons, please
| 105 |
Racer X Sun, Aug 30, 2009 8:00:01pm |
“Moral duty to pass health care this year”?
Every American (for that matter, anyone on American soil) can receive “health care”. What is under contention is the level of health care.
Isn’t it?
| 106 |
Gus Sun, Aug 30, 2009 8:00:03pm |
re: #97 Dark_Falcon
Creationism isn’t just against evolution, but rather it is against all science. Rex is just spewing his Bad Craziness into a new arena.
Exactly. Apparently he sees creationism as a process which can take care of global challenges along the way. And if you don’t agree with him or that “process” of intelligent design, you just lack faith.
Hard to tell if it’s the year 2009 sometimes.
| 107 |
Desert Dog Sun, Aug 30, 2009 8:00:11pm |
| 108 |
victor_yugo Sun, Aug 30, 2009 8:00:18pm |
re: #94 The Shadow Do
Funny how an open socialist, whose party does everything it can to marginalize traditional faith, suddenly appeals to it when it suits him.
| 109 |
zombie Sun, Aug 30, 2009 8:00:21pm |
re: #67 Killgore Trout
Bush ‘planted fake news stories on American TV’
My point was that these reports were produced by the White House by whatever department handles PR. They probably have a budget so so if you search around you can probably figure out what depart that is. Obama is using it for bumper stickers and buses. Not surprising since he seems to always be campaigning.
Oh, now I have some memory of that. Thanks for jogging my memory. I never actually saw one of those “fake news stories” in the wild on actual TV, but someone once did link to one of them on YouTube or somewhere like that. They seemed so obviously like press releases that it was hard to imagine that anybody seriously regarded them as “news stories.” I think it was more a case of lazy local TV producers slapping on air any free content they could get their hands on, than any concerted attempt by the White House to manufacture phony news.
Anyway, whatever became of the investigation? I never heard another peep about it. If it had been a real scandal, one would think the leftosphere would have been all over it.
| 110 |
The Shadow Do Sun, Aug 30, 2009 8:01:50pm |
| 111 |
Desert Dog Sun, Aug 30, 2009 8:02:32pm |
re: #109 zombie
Oh, now I have some memory of that. Thanks for jogging my memory. I never actually saw one of those “fake news stories” in the wild on actual TV, but someone once did link to one of them on YouTube or somewhere like that. They seemed so obviously like press releases that it was hard to imagine that anybody seriously regarded them as “news stories.” I think it was more a case of lazy local TV producers slapping on air any free content they could get their hands on, than any concerted attempt by the White House to manufacture phony news.
Anyway, whatever became of the investigation? I never heard another peep about it. If it had been a real scandal, one would think the leftosphere would have been all over it.
They don’t need to worry about any “fake news stories” coming out now though do they? The media just needs to clean off their Koolaid mustaches BEFORE reading the stories.
| 112 |
victor_yugo Sun, Aug 30, 2009 8:02:40pm |
re: #109 zombie
Anyway, whatever became of the investigation? I never heard another peep about it. If it had been a real scandal, one would think the leftosphere would have been all over it.
I think the lefties knew it would expose their hypocrisy, badly, if they pursued this line of investigation. Exploding gas tanks, anyone?
| 113 |
reine.de.tout Sun, Aug 30, 2009 8:02:41pm |
| 114 |
njdhockeyfan Sun, Aug 30, 2009 8:02:41pm |
Looks like ObamaCare has started on Long Island...
Three people posed as insurance agents hawking President Obama’s health-care reform plan to gain entry to a Long Island home, where they pistol-whipped, shot and robbed two women and a man, authorities said.
… Prosecutors said Thompson and Taylor approached a home on Virginia Avenue at around noon Friday, and then began to talk about Obama’s policies, while Jackson pushed into the door seeking cash.
Taylor allegedly pistol-whipped one woman, and Thompson shot another in the foot as Jackson led the man upstairs to retrieve some cash.
“When he didn’t get enough money, he shot the man twice in the neck, once in the back, and once in the chest,” said a Suffolk County prosecutor at the men’s arraignment.
Prosecutors said the two men, both with lengthy rap sheets, hatched the plan when they met for the first time at a parole meeting in Brooklyn.
| 115 |
Sharmuta Sun, Aug 30, 2009 8:02:58pm |
re: #100 Mich-again
It was probably Obama’s extra campaign cash. Would the DNC really just hand over their cash and control of the organization to Obama? Why else would it only exist on Obama’s own website.
Funding doesn’t work like that. He can’t give his extra money to the DNC- it’s his. He either pays off campaign debts or holds it for the next campaign.
| 116 |
zombie Sun, Aug 30, 2009 8:03:18pm |
re: #73 Killgore Trout
It’s the DNC. The GOP does the same stuff; sending out mailers, robocalls, etc.
I’m talking about propaganda materials — I specified that detail specifically.
| 117 |
jaunte Sun, Aug 30, 2009 8:04:15pm |
re: #105 Racer X
“Moral duty to pass health care this year”?
Every American (for that matter, anyone on American soil) can receive “health care”. What is under contention is the level of health care.
Isn’t it?
The “level,” we are promised, will stay unchanged.
The “access,” we are promised, will be more open.
The “cost,” we are promised, will diminish.
Anything not unchanged will improve.
| 118 |
Desert Dog Sun, Aug 30, 2009 8:04:29pm |
re: #115 Sharmuta
Funding doesn’t work like that. He can’t give his extra money to the DNC- it’s his. He either pays off campaign debts or holds it for the next campaign.
Obama can just use his bully pulpit to espouse now…or get the MSM to carry his water anytime he wants.
| 119 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Aug 30, 2009 8:04:52pm |
re: #106 Gus 802
Exactly. Apparently he sees creationism as a process which can take care of global challenges along the way. And if you don’t agree with him or that “process” of intelligent design, you just lack faith.
Hard to tell if it’s the year 2009 sometimes.
It is, but the level of religious fanaticism seems to be growing. And it won’t surprise Killgore to know that this douche also attends Tea Parties.
| 121 |
victor_yugo Sun, Aug 30, 2009 8:05:52pm |
re: #117 jaunte
The “level,” we are promised, will stay unchanged.
The “access,” we are promised, will be more open.
The “cost,” we are promised, will diminish.
Anything not unchanged will improve.
More of it, and cheaper.
Must be made in China.
| 122 |
ryannon Sun, Aug 30, 2009 8:06:35pm |
Good news for those who never liked the Mt. Wilson TowerCam. You can watch it burn down in real-time:
[Link: www.astro.ucla.edu…]
LOS ANGELES — Authorities say flames from a major wildfire north of Los Angeles are about to reach Mount Wilson, home to a historic observatory and transmitters for every major television and radio station in the area.
Los Angeles County Fire Capt. Mark Savage tells KABC-TV Sunday that “it’s not a matter of if it impacts Mount Wilson, it’s a matter of when,” and estimated that the flames could leap to the top of the mountain within a few hours.
Savage says firefighters could be pulled at any moment if the situation becomes dangerous.
Television stations say if the antennas burn, broadcast signals will be affected but satellite and cable transmissions should not be.
Two giant telescopes and several multimillion-dollar astronomy programs are also located at the observatory.
| 123 |
TheMatrix31 Sun, Aug 30, 2009 8:06:56pm |
re: #115 Sharmuta
Funding doesn’t work like that. He can’t give his extra money to the DNC- it’s his. He either pays off campaign debts or holds it for the next campaign.
Eh, if he went back on his funding promise like he did, I wouldn’t be surprised at anything that happens to that money.
| 124 |
Coracle Sun, Aug 30, 2009 8:07:00pm |
re: #109 zombie
Anyway, whatever became of the investigation? I never heard another peep about it. If it had been a real scandal, one would think the leftosphere would have been all over it.
As I recall, the leftosphere did get exercised about it. MSM ignored it.
| 125 |
Desert Dog Sun, Aug 30, 2009 8:07:02pm |
re: #120 jaunte
Anything not promised to remain unchanged will improve.
And, if it does not improve, it’s because of George Bush and his 8 years of mismanagement!
| 126 |
njdhockeyfan Sun, Aug 30, 2009 8:07:24pm |
re: #118 Desert Dog
Obama can just use his bully pulpit to espouse now…or get the MSM to carry his water anytime he wants.
I guess he figures he needs to do something since the MSM’s support isn’t working as his poll numbers continue to tank.
| 127 |
jaunte Sun, Aug 30, 2009 8:07:52pm |
re: #121 victor_yugo
I do find the willing acceptance of these promises of unprecedented miracles
kind of mysterious, from some people who question many things that actually function.
| 128 |
Desert Dog Sun, Aug 30, 2009 8:08:06pm |
re: #126 njdhockeyfan
I guess he figures he needs to do something since the MSM’s support isn’t working as his poll numbers continue to tank.
“You can fool some of the people some of the time…”
| 129 |
Desert Dog Sun, Aug 30, 2009 8:09:00pm |
re: #122 ryannon
Good news for those who never liked the Mt. Wilson TowerCam. You can watch it burn down in real-time:
[Link: www.astro.ucla.edu…]
LOS ANGELES — Authorities say flames from a major wildfire north of Los Angeles are about to reach Mount Wilson, home to a historic observatory and transmitters for every major television and radio station in the area.
Los Angeles County Fire Capt. Mark Savage tells KABC-TV Sunday that “it’s not a matter of if it impacts Mount Wilson, it’s a matter of when,” and estimated that the flames could leap to the top of the mountain within a few hours.
Savage says firefighters could be pulled at any moment if the situation becomes dangerous.
Television stations say if the antennas burn, broadcast signals will be affected but satellite and cable transmissions should not be.
Two giant telescopes and several multimillion-dollar astronomy programs are also located at the observatory.
I think I see Ojoe carrying a bucket…did you see him?
| 130 |
livefreeor die Sun, Aug 30, 2009 8:09:54pm |
re: #122 ryannon
How sad!
I can’t get the link to work-maybe the flames have already reached the cameras?
| 131 |
Gus Sun, Aug 30, 2009 8:10:05pm |
re: #119 Dark_Falcon
It is, but the level of religious fanaticism seems to be growing. And it won’t surprise Killgore to know that this douche also attends Tea Parties.
I ran across that while searching. He has zero political experience and no writing under his belt. Other than that he’s been a veterinarian and is now known mostly for making “jokes” about “hunting Obama.”
| 132 |
njdhockeyfan Sun, Aug 30, 2009 8:10:15pm |
re: #130 livefreeor die
How sad!
I can’t get the link to work-maybe the flames have already reached the cameras?
Same here.
| 133 |
Shiplord Kirel Sun, Aug 30, 2009 8:10:27pm |
re: #87 Gus 802
So according to Rex AGW proponents merely lack faith in creation.
Yep, Teddy Roosevelt would definitely take his famous Clue-stick of Doom to this one.
According to Rex’s logic, Teddy’s Panama Canal project would have shown a lack of faith in the Creator’s Cape Horn route, and its future economic viability.
| 134 |
Killgore Trout Sun, Aug 30, 2009 8:11:13pm |
re: #100 Mich-again
Why else would it only exist on Obama’s own website.
It’s not his website. It’s the DNC’s site used to promote his policies. It makes perfect sense that they’d have a tour bus and bumper stickers with the web address on them. There are probably t-shirts too. It really seems to me that the simplest explanation is that the Bus and the bumper sticker, which advertise Barack Obama - dot - com are paid for by the site. The site clearly states that it a project from the DNC.
I don’t see any mystery or anything unusual about it.
| 135 |
TheMatrix31 Sun, Aug 30, 2009 8:11:54pm |
Cam link don’t work. Why do I need a cam? I can just go outside and smell the smoky shit.
| 136 |
Sharmuta Sun, Aug 30, 2009 8:12:09pm |
re: #134 Killgore Trout
It’s not his website. It’s the DNC’s site used to promote his policies. It makes perfect sense that they’d have a tour bus and bumper stickers with the web address on them. There are probably t-shirts too. It really seems to me that the simplest explanation is that the Bus and the bumper sticker, which advertise Barack Obama - dot - com are paid for by the site. The site clearly states that it a project from the DNC.
I don’t see any mystery or anything unusual about it.
I’m shocked, shocked I tell you, to learn that a political party would campaign for their agenda.
| 137 |
Syrah Sun, Aug 30, 2009 8:12:31pm |
It would be amusing if R-MEW had a Reuters Daily Visit Counter.
| 138 |
ryannon Sun, Aug 30, 2009 8:12:52pm |
re: #129 Desert Dog
I think I see Ojoe carrying a bucket…did you see him?
I don’t see him posting, and that’s worrying enough. Although I hope his home is far enough down the hill to be out of danger, I share his sense of loss if this thing goes. And that’s not mentioning all the telecommunications transmitters up there. It’s not a good thing by anyone’s stretch of the imagination.
| 139 |
livefreeor die Sun, Aug 30, 2009 8:13:01pm |
So, of all the approaches used to push health care passage before O’s vacation, which one will he start off with on returning to D.C.?
Some possibilities:
-Do it for Ted.
-You’re racist if you don’t support this.
-The GOP is astroturfing.
-God wants us to do this.
-I never said we had to have a public option.
| 140 |
Killgore Trout Sun, Aug 30, 2009 8:13:05pm |
re: #116 zombie
I’m talking about propaganda materials — I specified that detail specifically.
I’m sure the GOP has printed bumper stickers before.
| 141 |
OldLineTexan Sun, Aug 30, 2009 8:14:00pm |
re: #139 livefreeor die
So, of all the approaches used to push health care passage before O’s vacation, which one will he start off with on returning to D.C.?
Some possibilities:
-Do it for Ted.
-You’re racist if you don’t support this.
-The GOP is astroturfing.
-God wants us to do this.
-I never said we had to have a public option.
Algore beat him to Ted and Jeebus both.
| 142 |
Gus Sun, Aug 30, 2009 8:14:14pm |
re: #133 Shiplord Kirel
Yep, Teddy Roosevelt would definitely take his famous Clue-stick of Doom to this one.
According to Rex’s logic, Teddy’s Panama Canal project would have shown a lack of faith in the Creator’s Cape Horn route, and its future economic viability.
It almost borders on luddism. If people were to go about their business waiting for some “grand plan” we’d still be living in caves.
| 143 |
yochanan Sun, Aug 30, 2009 8:14:39pm |
re: #140 Killgore Trout
hell even little o’me has printed bumper stickers and i don’t even have a car
| 145 |
Desert Dog Sun, Aug 30, 2009 8:15:09pm |
re: #138 ryannon
I don’t see him posting, and that’s worrying enough. Although I hope his home is far enough down the hill to be out of danger, I share his sense of loss if this thing goes. And that’s not mentioning all the telecommunications transmitters up there. It’s not a good thing by anyone’s stretch of the imagination.
What is the forecast for tomorrow? Any break? I think the same massive high pressure system that is making us bake here in AZ is doing the same to Socal. Hope the weather starts cooperating soon.
| 146 |
livefreeor die Sun, Aug 30, 2009 8:15:09pm |
re: #138 ryannon
I don’t see him posting, and that’s worrying enough. Although I hope his home is far enough down the hill to be out of danger, I share his sense of loss if this thing goes. And that’s not mentioning all the telecommunications transmitters up there. It’s not a good thing by anyone’s stretch of the imagination.
I always love his tower cam links-so peaceful in the midst of all the world’s craziness. What a horrible loss.
| 147 |
Ward Cleaver Sun, Aug 30, 2009 8:17:26pm |
re: #36 zombie
New at zomblog:
Government-issued Health Care Bill propaganda: The presidency devolves into a neverending campaign
It’s fitting that an 0bamaCare TeddyCare sticker was on a dumpster.
| 148 |
Gus Sun, Aug 30, 2009 8:17:38pm |
re: #139 livefreeor die
So, of all the approaches used to push health care passage before O’s vacation, which one will he start off with on returning to D.C.?
Some possibilities:
-Do it for Ted.
-You’re racist if you don’t support this.
-The GOP is astroturfing.
-God wants us to do this.
-I never said we had to have a public option.
He will announce that there is a national emergency due an H1N1 epidemic and we will all have to report or be taken by the authorities to FEMA camps.
//
| 149 |
Sharmuta Sun, Aug 30, 2009 8:17:38pm |
re: #140 Killgore Trout
I’m sure the GOP has printed bumper stickers before.
It’s the same with State parties. They’ll print up bumper stickers for local issues and mail them to supporters already on their mailing lists. They run ads on local talk shows. It’s not uncommon.
| 150 |
livefreeor die Sun, Aug 30, 2009 8:17:45pm |
re: #144 jaunte
I’d bet on 2,3 and 5.
Ok-I’ll put you down for “racist astroturfers obsessing over public option.”
| 151 |
njdhockeyfan Sun, Aug 30, 2009 8:17:45pm |
Holy shit! I just got the Mt Wilson cam to come up and all you can see are smoke & flames. So sad.
| 152 |
mikeymom Sun, Aug 30, 2009 8:17:47pm |
re: #129 Desert Dog
I think I see Ojoe carrying a bucket…did you see him?
this brings it home-wow- i always loved ojoes link-sad sad
| 153 |
ryannon Sun, Aug 30, 2009 8:19:00pm |
re: #146 livefreeor die
I always love his tower cam links-so peaceful in the midst of all the world’s craziness. What a horrible loss.
Ditto.
I always looked forward to seeing him post it. And it is a horrible loss. Impossible to connect via the link, which must mean that the telecommunications relays are gone.
| 154 |
Mich-again Sun, Aug 30, 2009 8:19:14pm |
re: #134 Killgore Trout
It’s not his website. It’s the DNC’s site used to promote his policies.
You know this how?
Throughout the campaign, it was clear that MyBarackObama.com was his campaign’s website, not something controlled by the DNC. So why would it be that now that he is President, MyBarackObama.com belongs to the DNC and exists to promote his policies? Huh?
| 155 |
Killgore Trout Sun, Aug 30, 2009 8:19:32pm |
re: #136 Sharmuta
Seems pretty simple to me. The materials advertise a website. The Website clearly state that it’s DNC. Although I can’t think of any examples right now, I’m sure the GOP does it all the time too. They’re probably doing it now with the healthcare thing.
| 156 |
TheMatrix31 Sun, Aug 30, 2009 8:19:34pm |
re: #145 Desert Dog
What is the forecast for tomorrow? Any break? I think the same massive high pressure system that is making us bake here in AZ is doing the same to Socal. Hope the weather starts cooperating soon.
A little cooler, but not by much. There’s hardly any wind though, so I don’t get how this crap is spreading.
| 157 |
Desert Dog Sun, Aug 30, 2009 8:19:46pm |
re: #154 Mich-again
You know this how?
Throughout the campaign, it was clear that MyBarackObama.com was his campaign’s website, not something controlled by the DNC. So why would it be that now that he is President, MyBarackObama.com belongs to the DNC and exists to promote his policies? Huh?
The DNC belongs to Obama?
| 158 |
mikeymom Sun, Aug 30, 2009 8:20:22pm |
is ojoe—or charles—near the fire?? or any other lizards?
| 159 |
Desert Dog Sun, Aug 30, 2009 8:21:23pm |
re: #156 TheMatrix31
A little cooler, but not by much. There’s hardly any wind though, so I don’t get how this crap is spreading.
No rain for months on end? You guys have had a dry summer, yes? We have here in Phoenix. Our much ballyhooed monsoon season was a bust this year…we hardly got any rain at all. One good lightning strike or a idiot with a campfire in the wrong place, we will be in the same boat.
| 160 |
Mich-again Sun, Aug 30, 2009 8:21:26pm |
| 161 |
Killgore Trout Sun, Aug 30, 2009 8:21:54pm |
re: #154 Mich-again
You know this how?
It says at the bottom left of the site it’s a DNC project. You can check out the Whois information and it will probably tell you the same thing. Occam’s Razor.
| 162 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Aug 30, 2009 8:22:11pm |
| 163 |
Ward Cleaver Sun, Aug 30, 2009 8:23:08pm |
re: #151 njdhockeyfan
Holy shit! I just got the Mt Wilson cam to come up and all you can see are smoke & flames. So sad.
Wow, just wow.
| 164 |
TheMatrix31 Sun, Aug 30, 2009 8:23:13pm |
re: #158 mikeymom
is ojoe—or charles—near the fire?? or any other lizards?
I’m across the valley from it. About 20 miles or so. I smelled it when I was leaving for a day trip for Fresno early in the morning, but when I got back an hour ago, I couldn’t smell it from my house. The other day, I was coming down my hill to go to work, and the damn smoke looked like a mushroom cloud! Very freakin’ creepy/eerie.
Here’s a picture…
| 165 |
Syrah Sun, Aug 30, 2009 8:23:35pm |
re: #156 TheMatrix31
A little cooler, but not by much. There’s hardly any wind though, so I don’t get how this crap is spreading.
The Santa Anna’s?
| 166 |
Mich-again Sun, Aug 30, 2009 8:24:02pm |
re: #161 Killgore Trout
It says at the bottom left of the site it’s a DNC project.
And at the top of the page it says BarackObama.com.
Are you saying Obama’s campaign and the DNC are one in the same? Of course Hillary would probably concur with that.
| 167 |
TheMatrix31 Sun, Aug 30, 2009 8:24:07pm |
re: #159 Desert Dog
No rain for months on end? You guys have had a dry summer, yes? We have here in Phoenix. Our much ballyhooed monsoon season was a bust this year…we hardly got any rain at all. One good lightning strike or a idiot with a campfire in the wrong place, we will be in the same boat.
I love rain so I’ve been craving it. Unfortunately, no rain this summer. We had a cooler-than-average June, but no real rain. Just some drizzle.
| 168 |
Killgore Trout Sun, Aug 30, 2009 8:24:10pm |
re: #160 Mich-again
Scroll all the way down. Look to the left. It states very clearly who is funding the site. DNC. I don’t see what’s so difficult to understand.
| 169 |
Gus Sun, Aug 30, 2009 8:24:12pm |
re: #161 Killgore Trout
It says at the bottom left of the site it’s a DNC project. You can check out the Whois information and it will probably tell you the same thing. Occam’s Razor.
The Obama site?
Here’s the DNS…
Obama for America
233 N. Michigan Ave
Suite 1100
Chicago, Illinois 60601
United States
| 170 |
TheMatrix31 Sun, Aug 30, 2009 8:24:42pm |
re: #165 Syrah
The Santa Anna’s?
No Santa Ana’s yet. Those usually pop up in October/November. If those winds were raging, this thing would be even worse.
| 171 |
Killgore Trout Sun, Aug 30, 2009 8:25:17pm |
re: #166 Mich-again
And at the top of the page it says BarackObama.com.
Yes, that’s the name of the website which is run by the DNC.
| 172 |
ryannon Sun, Aug 30, 2009 8:25:29pm |
re: #156 TheMatrix31
A little cooler, but not by much. There’s hardly any wind though, so I don’t get how this crap is spreading.
“Winds of more than 20 miles per hour fanned the flames, but “this fire’s very different,” Jorgensen said. “It’s not what we typically get. It is not a wind-driven fire.”
The weak winds allow clouds to hover over the flames, making it more difficult for firefighters attacking the fire from the air to see the blaze. The fire has spread so vastly because there had not been a fire in that area in 60 years, he said, meaning more brush and more fuel.”
[Link: edition.cnn.com…]
| 173 |
Mich-again Sun, Aug 30, 2009 8:25:43pm |
re: #169 Gus 802
Forget that DNS stuff, its says it right there in the text box that its a DNC project! Nothing to see here, move along.
(nice find)
| 174 |
Desert Dog Sun, Aug 30, 2009 8:26:09pm |
re: #167 TheMatrix31
I love rain so I’ve been craving it. Unfortunately, no rain this summer. We had a cooler-than-average June, but no real rain. Just some drizzle.
Same here…we usually get a few nice gully washers each summer…so far, just some brief stuff…enough to ruin your car wash…nothing else. Arizona is a tinderbox right now.
| 175 |
TheMatrix31 Sun, Aug 30, 2009 8:26:22pm |
re: #172 ryannon
“Winds of more than 20 miles per hour fanned the flames, but “this fire’s very different,” Jorgensen said. “It’s not what we typically get. It is not a wind-driven fire.”
The weak winds allow clouds to hover over the flames, making it more difficult for firefighters attacking the fire from the air to see the blaze. The fire has spread so vastly because there had not been a fire in that area in 60 years, he said, meaning more brush and more fuel.”
[Link: edition.cnn.com…]
Yep. Exactly.
| 176 |
mikeymom Sun, Aug 30, 2009 8:26:36pm |
re: #164 TheMatrix31
stay safe—here in co, near boulder, a few yrs ago we could see fires and flames from our deck—never very close, but scary nonetheless. nothing this big—prayers to all—are animal rescues in place?
| 177 |
Desert Dog Sun, Aug 30, 2009 8:26:59pm |
re: #172 ryannon
“Winds of more than 20 miles per hour fanned the flames, but “this fire’s very different,” Jorgensen said. “It’s not what we typically get. It is not a wind-driven fire.”
The weak winds allow clouds to hover over the flames, making it more difficult for firefighters attacking the fire from the air to see the blaze. The fire has spread so vastly because there had not been a fire in that area in 60 years, he said, meaning more brush and more fuel.”
[Link: edition.cnn.com…]
What caused it? Let me guess…man made?
| 178 |
Mich-again Sun, Aug 30, 2009 8:27:10pm |
re: #171 Killgore Trout
Yes, that’s the name of the website which is run by the DNC.
Did they run it back during the campaign also when his minions were posting nasty things about Hillary in the blog? Nope. Was there some transfer of control after the campaign was over? Perhaps.
| 179 |
Killgore Trout Sun, Aug 30, 2009 8:27:21pm |
re: #169 Gus 802
The Obama site?
Here’s the DNS…
Obama for America
233 N. Michigan Ave
Suite 1100
Chicago, Illinois 60601
United States
Ok, now there you have something. I wonder if after the campaign the DNC took over the site to promote policies.
| 180 |
Sharmuta Sun, Aug 30, 2009 8:27:33pm |
Former first daughter Jenna Bush joins ‘Today’
NBC’s “Today” show has hired someone with White House experience as a new correspondent former first daughter Jenna Bush Hager.
Hager, a 27-year-old teacher in Baltimore, will contribute stories about once a month on issues like education to television’s top-rated morning news show, said Jim Bell, its executive producer.
| 181 |
ryannon Sun, Aug 30, 2009 8:27:38pm |
re: #176 mikeymom
stay safe—here in co, near boulder, a few yrs ago we could see fires and flames from our deck—never very close, but scary nonetheless. nothing this big—prayers to all—are animal rescues in place?
Yes, from what I read in earlier dispatches.
| 182 |
TheMatrix31 Sun, Aug 30, 2009 8:28:18pm |
re: #176 mikeymom
stay safe—here in co, near boulder, a few yrs ago we could see fires and flames from our deck—never very close, but scary nonetheless. nothing this big—prayers to all—are animal rescues in place?
Thank you for your concern. We’re good over here in my area, but who knows when one of these embers get carried over and start something in my area.
re: #177 Desert Dog
What caused it? Let me guess…man made?
Probably man made, just like the disaster that IS Barack Hussein Obama.
| 183 |
reine.de.tout Sun, Aug 30, 2009 8:28:23pm |
| 184 |
Gus Sun, Aug 30, 2009 8:28:39pm |
re: #179 Killgore Trout
Ok, now there you have something. I wonder if after the campaign the DNC took over the site to promote policies.
To be honest I can’t tell through the address.
It is the same address as the obamaforillinois dot com site:
[Link: who.godaddy.com…]
| 185 |
livefreeor die Sun, Aug 30, 2009 8:28:39pm |
Night all-I have to get some sleep before our now 8 month old gets up bright and early!
| 187 |
Desert Dog Sun, Aug 30, 2009 8:28:49pm |
re: #179 Killgore Trout
Ok, now there you have something. I wonder if after the campaign the DNC took over the site to promote policies.
see my #157
| 188 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Aug 30, 2009 8:29:43pm |
| 189 |
Gus Sun, Aug 30, 2009 8:30:09pm |
re: #184 Gus 802
This was the administrative contact:
Michael Slaby “is a Programme Coordinator of Earth Charter International - the coordinating secretariat for an extraordinarily diverse network of people, organizations, and institutions that participate in the global Earth Charter Initiative. Michael has been actively involved in youth-led initiatives on sustainable development, human rights and refugee aid on both national and international levels since 1996. From 2003 to 2006, he volunteered as Earth Charter Youth Coordinator, and helped to establish a global network of youth organizations working on environmental protection, human rights, equitable human development and peace.”
[Link: www.sourcewatch.org…]
| 190 |
Killgore Trout Sun, Aug 30, 2009 8:30:28pm |
re: #184 Gus 802
To be honest I can’t tell through the address.
It is the same address as the obamaforillinois dot com site:
[Link: who.godaddy.com…]
I suspect that to comply with whatever the rules and regulations are regarding this stuff that they have to put the DNC in charge after the election was over.
| 191 |
Gus Sun, Aug 30, 2009 8:31:21pm |
re: #190 Killgore Trout
I suspect that to comply with whatever the rules and regulations are regarding this stuff that they have to put the DNC in charge after the election was over.
Then you might have to look through the FEC.
| 192 |
Killgore Trout Sun, Aug 30, 2009 8:31:45pm |
re: #189 Gus 802
Earth Charter International
That sounds ominous. Maybe we should get Glenn Beck on the case.
| 193 |
Gus Sun, Aug 30, 2009 8:32:23pm |
re: #192 Killgore Trout
That sounds ominous. Maybe we should get Glenn Beck on the case.
Oligarhy!
/
| 195 |
Mich-again Sun, Aug 30, 2009 8:34:02pm |
re: #190 Killgore Trout
I suspect that to comply with whatever the rules and regulations are regarding this stuff that they have to put the DNC in charge after the election was over.
It appears the homepage for BarackObama.com is now actually the home page for “Organizing for America”. Didn’t even get a new web address. That seems odd to me if it is actually under DNC control now. What, did they keep the old web address to keep the hits rolling in?
| 196 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Aug 30, 2009 8:34:14pm |
re: #192 Killgore Trout
That sounds ominous. Maybe we should get Glenn Beck on the case.
It’s certainly a left-liberal organization. That said, I wouldn’t let Glen Beck within five miles of an important story. He discredits anything he touches with freakishness.
| 197 |
Syrah Sun, Aug 30, 2009 8:34:49pm |
If you don’t get through on the first try, try again.
| 198 |
Gus Sun, Aug 30, 2009 8:34:54pm |
re: #195 Mich-again
It appears the homepage for BarackObama.com is now actually the home page for “Organizing for America”. Didn’t even get a new web address. That seems odd to me if it is actually under DNC control now. What, did they keep the old web address to keep the hits rolling in?
Still looking. It might have been transfered to the party committee.
| 199 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Sun, Aug 30, 2009 8:36:54pm |
OT, but in case anyone wants their cool as shit meter to go off scale, check this out.
[Link: www.hulu.com…]
| 200 |
Mich-again Sun, Aug 30, 2009 8:38:23pm |
re: #198 Gus 802
Still looking. It might have been transfered to the party committee.
Still its odd they didn’t get a new web address. If by chance he had named his campaign website StopHillary.com, would the DNC keep the same site for promoting policy after the election?
| 201 |
Sharmuta Sun, Aug 30, 2009 8:39:23pm |
re: #195 Mich-again
Perhaps to keep it active until 2010. Why let it go to waste?
| 202 |
Gus Sun, Aug 30, 2009 8:39:42pm |
re: #200 Mich-again
Still its odd they didn’t get a new web address. If by chance he had named his campaign website StopHillary.com, would the DNC keep the same site for promoting policy after the election?
Ownership usually lags. It does say it is owned by the DNC on the lower left as mentioned. I think anyone can register the site.
| 203 |
Gus Sun, Aug 30, 2009 8:40:27pm |
re: #201 Sharmuta
Perhaps to keep it active until 2010. Why let it go to waste?
Updated Date: 17-oct-2007
Creation Date: 28-dec-2004
Expiration Date: 28-dec-2015
| 204 |
TheMatrix31 Sun, Aug 30, 2009 8:40:57pm |
re: #201 Sharmuta
Perhaps to keep it active until 2010. Why let it go to waste?
Since when are Democrats (I guess politicians, now) good at controlling waste?
| 205 |
Killgore Trout Sun, Aug 30, 2009 8:41:42pm |
re: #195 Mich-again
It appears the homepage for BarackObama.com is now actually the home page for “Organizing for America”. Didn’t even get a new web address. That seems odd to me if it is actually under DNC control now. What, did they keep the old web address to keep the hits rolling in?
Maybe. My guess is that it’s just a technicality they have to comply with. Maybe the checks to the ISP have to be from the DNC to keep the FEC happy.
| 207 |
Mich-again Sun, Aug 30, 2009 8:43:32pm |
re: #202 Gus 802
I think anyone can register the site.
The site was originally registered long ago when Obama was still competing for the nomination against Hillary. It was not originally registered as a DNC site. And if “Organizing for America” really is a DNC controlled committee, why are they using Obama’s site for a homepage? That doesn’t add up.
| 208 |
Sharmuta Sun, Aug 30, 2009 8:43:40pm |
re: #199 LudwigVanQuixote
OT, but in case anyone wants their cool as shit meter to go off scale, check this out.
[Link: www.hulu.com…]
OOooo! I love space stuff. Thanks- watching now.
| 209 |
Killgore Trout Sun, Aug 30, 2009 8:43:55pm |
re: #194 Gus 802
From the 1st result…
Total $41,233,145 Transfers to Party Committees from Obama for America
Nice. I wonder if they have any job openings.
| 210 |
Killgore Trout Sun, Aug 30, 2009 8:44:48pm |
re: #209 Killgore Trout
I need some stimulus.
| 211 |
Gus Sun, Aug 30, 2009 8:45:16pm |
re: #209 Killgore Trout
From the 1st result…
Nice. I wonder if they have any job openings.
I’ll take 75K/yr to start with moving expenses. ;)
Yeah, I saw that list too. I think they simply moved everything over to the DNC.
| 212 |
njdhockeyfan Sun, Aug 30, 2009 8:45:19pm |
Well well well…Harry Reid threatened a newspaper Wednesday.
The publisher of the Las Vegas Review-Journal on Sunday accused Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, a Nevada Democrat, of “bullying” his newspaper by telling an employee he wants the Review-Journal shut down.
Sherman Frederick alleged in a column in his newspaper that the “full-on threat” was made during a brief exchange between Reid and the newspaper’s advertising director Wednesday at a luncheon for the Las Vegas Chamber of Commerce.
Frederick said that as Reid shook the employee’s hand, he said, “I hope you go out of business.”
I think Harry will be out of business soon
Lowden is not a declared candidate, but a Mason-Dixon Polling and Research survey released over the weekend showed her leading Reid by 45 percent to 40 percent in a hypothetical match-up.
But the poll showed Reid faring even worse against declared GOP candidate Danny Tarkanian, a former basketball player for the University of Nevada-Las Vegas.
The survey, reported in the Las Vegas Review-Journal, showed Tarkanian leading Reid by 49 percent to 38 percent in Nevada.
| 213 |
jaunte Sun, Aug 30, 2009 8:46:03pm |
re: #210 Killgore Trout
The Ardha Kurmasana works pretty well.
| 214 |
Mich-again Sun, Aug 30, 2009 8:46:11pm |
Of course you could go the official DNC site and search for “Organizing for America” and get zero hits.
| 215 |
Ward Cleaver Sun, Aug 30, 2009 8:46:27pm |
re: #197 Syrah
If you don’t get through on the first try, try again.
The news isn’t good for Mt. Wilson:
Station fire likely to hit historic Mt. Wilson observatory, fire officials say
| 216 |
TheMatrix31 Sun, Aug 30, 2009 8:47:02pm |
re: #212 njdhockeyfan
Well well well…Harry Reid threatened a newspaper Wednesday.
Let’s go Tark the Shark!
| 217 |
Gus Sun, Aug 30, 2009 8:48:38pm |
re: #214 Mich-again
Of course you could go the official DNC site and search for “Organizing for America” and get zero hits.
Try this:
[Link: www.google.com…]
| 218 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Aug 30, 2009 8:48:43pm |
re: #212 njdhockeyfan
Well well well…Harry Reid threatened a newspaper Wednesday.
Reid is very stupid. The last Dem bigshot to go after a newspaper like that was Rod Blago in my state going after the Chicago Tribune. The skirmish ended when Blago was arrested and thus the Tribune was vindicated.
| 219 |
Ward Cleaver Sun, Aug 30, 2009 8:49:04pm |
re: #212 njdhockeyfan
Well well well…Harry Reid threatened a newspaper Wednesday.
People can send Tarkanian $10 through this site:
| 220 |
Syrah Sun, Aug 30, 2009 8:49:34pm |
re: #215 Ward Cleaver
The news isn’t good for Mt. Wilson:
Station fire likely to hit historic Mt. Wilson observatory, fire officials say
I started to some weird results. The page would come up, with the image blank.
| 221 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Aug 30, 2009 8:49:52pm |
re: #216 TheMatrix31
Let’s go Tark the Shark!
Reid’s not the shark, he’s the moron who just jumped the shark.
| 222 |
ryannon Sun, Aug 30, 2009 8:51:19pm |
re: #220 Syrah
I started to some weird results. The page would come up, with the image blank.
Same here, for the last half-hour…
| 223 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Sun, Aug 30, 2009 8:52:01pm |
re: #208 Sharmuta
OOooo! I love space stuff. Thanks- watching now.
Yeah, the narration is pretty simplistic, but the stellar dynamics stuff is very well rendered. Pretty cool to think about a 4,000,000 solar mass black hole at the center of our galaxy. There are even bigger ones, but that is monster enough.
| 224 |
Mich-again Sun, Aug 30, 2009 8:52:45pm |
And funny that at the DNC website, if you click on Agenda, and then Health Care for All, the page that pops up says nothing about Organizing for America, the alleged special committee of the DNC (allegedly) that has enough clout and cash to bankroll a luxury tour bus on a Nationwide tour promoting Obama’s health care plan.
| 225 |
realwest Sun, Aug 30, 2009 8:53:40pm |
re: #215 Ward Cleaver
Good evening Ward - I can’t get the Tower Cam to come up at all - no matter how many times I refresh; do you reckon it’s gone?
| 226 |
ryannon Sun, Aug 30, 2009 8:53:58pm |
It finally connected: looks like a scene out of Dante or Bosch…
| 227 |
realwest Sun, Aug 30, 2009 8:56:01pm |
re: #225 realwest
Ah, nevermind, thanks to ryannon at #226 I tried again - and got it, but it sure doesn’t look good for the tower cam/observatory. Damn.
| 228 |
Gus Sun, Aug 30, 2009 8:56:56pm |
re: #224 Mich-again
And funny that at the DNC website, if you click on Agenda, and then Health Care for All, the page that pops up says nothing about Organizing for America, the alleged special committee of the DNC (allegedly) that has enough clout and cash to bankroll a luxury tour bus on a Nationwide tour promoting Obama’s health care plan.
So the question is whether this is run by the DNC or the White House? Probably both. It is probably legally under the DNC and run by what was “Obama for America.”
He did say this on August 20th:
And to all of my Organizing for America volunteers, thank you so much for your unbelievable dedication. It is good to be here.
[Link: www.whitehouse.gov…]
| 229 |
Mich-again Sun, Aug 30, 2009 9:00:49pm |
re: #217 Gus 802
Google remembers what the webmaster forgot. Again I see the same disclaimer…
Paid for by Organizing for America, a project of the Democratic National Committee — 430 South Capitol Street SE, Washington, D.C. 20003. This communication is not authorized by any candidate or candidate’s committee.
I say that if its promoted on a candidate’s website, the candidate endorses it. I’m not talking about a reader comment buried in a blog entry, I’m talking about the entire mission for the website. If you search “Organizing for America” it leads you to BarackObama.com and then it carries a disclaimer that no candidate endorses it. I call instant bullshit. Of course Obama endorses it. Its his campaign website!
| 230 |
njdhockeyfan Sun, Aug 30, 2009 9:02:00pm |
Here is an example of what Organizing for America is doing at health care protests.
Organizing for America Bus Tour: Manufacturing Consent
Notice the fake homemade signs. This is the problem for the left in the health care debate. People who oppose the bill are sincere and passionate about there opposition and you can see that in the videos. The pro-ObamaCare protesters are ordered to go, most of them are bussed in from elsewhere, and they show up with pre-printed signs. No wonder the support is sliding…Americans will not be fooled.
| 231 |
Racer X Sun, Aug 30, 2009 9:02:12pm |
re: #229 Mich-again
Google remembers what the webmaster forgot. Again I see the same disclaimer…
I say that if its promoted on a candidate’s website, the candidate endorses it. I’m not talking about a reader comment buried in a blog entry, I’m talking about the entire mission for the website. If you search “Organizing for America” it leads you to BarackObama.com and then it carries a disclaimer that no candidate endorses it. I call instant bullshit. Of course Obama endorses it. Its his campaign website!
Depends on what the meaning of “is” is.
| 232 |
Gus Sun, Aug 30, 2009 9:02:19pm |
re: #229 Mich-again
Google remembers what the webmaster forgot. Again I see the same disclaimer…
I say that if its promoted on a candidate’s website, the candidate endorses it. I’m not talking about a reader comment buried in a blog entry, I’m talking about the entire mission for the website. If you search “Organizing for America” it leads you to BarackObama.com and then it carries a disclaimer that no candidate endorses it. I call instant bullshit. Of course Obama endorses it. Its his campaign website!
Here’s a White House Google search for “Organizing for America.”
| 233 |
yochanan Sun, Aug 30, 2009 9:03:16pm |
re: #226 ryannon
you got some strange looking monsters? which level of hell is it?
| 234 |
Gus Sun, Aug 30, 2009 9:04:47pm |
Then there was this:
Q Following up on what Jake asked about the fishy e-mails, would it be more likely to assume, Robert, that the White House would be curious about people who would be e-mailing them about things that they’d consider either disingenuous or inaccurate in order to keep in touch with them as part of an ongoing dialogue about their support for the White House efforts on health care — meaning you’re not looking for people who are saying things that are not accurate, but you’re looking for ways to always expand the number of folks who e-mail you or Organizing For America as a political tool to keep in touch with them?MR. GIBBS: Well, let’s — hold on. Let me — I’m not entirely sure what the question was, but let me put down some fence posts in the speech. OFA and the White House Web site, as you well know, are not in any way connected. Point number one.
Point number two, I think I was — as Jake vouched for the veracity of your statement, I think he will equally vouch for the veracity of mine in saying that I was pretty clear that we’re not collecting names from those e-mails.
[Link: www.whitehouse.gov…]
| 235 |
ryannon Sun, Aug 30, 2009 9:06:24pm |
re: #233 yochanan
you got some strange looking monsters? which level of hell is it?
Relatively superficial: I don’t see Glenn Beck or Ron Paul.
| 236 |
Mich-again Sun, Aug 30, 2009 9:06:46pm |
re: #230 njdhockeyfan
Notice the fake homemade signs.
The very essence of astroturfing. Fake grass roots. Nancy Pelosi was throwing that term around using her own made-up definition. The protesters at Town Hall meetings were more crabgrass than astroturf. Organizing for America is astroturf. Heck, its cheap astroturf. More like indoor/outdoor carpet.
| 237 |
experiencedtraveller Sun, Aug 30, 2009 9:07:15pm |
re: #211 Gus 802
I’ll take 75K/yr to start with moving expenses. ;)
75K is secretarial staff in DC. Plus benefits…
| 238 |
Mich-again Sun, Aug 30, 2009 9:07:57pm |
re: #232 Gus 802
Linkie no workie. Was that an auto-redirect?
| 239 |
Gus Sun, Aug 30, 2009 9:08:33pm |
re: #236 Mich-again
The very essence of astroturfing. Fake grass roots. Nancy Pelosi was throwing that term around using her own made-up definition. The protesters at Town Hall meetings were more crabgrass than astroturf. Organizing for America is astroturf. Heck, its cheap astroturf. More like indoor/outdoor carpet.
Hey, Obama said this which I mentioned above:
And to all of my Organizing for America volunteers, thank you so much for your unbelievable dedication. It is good to be here.
[Link: www.whitehouse.gov…]
MY Organizing for America volunteers.
Hmmm.
| 240 |
Sharmuta Sun, Aug 30, 2009 9:09:16pm |
re: #223 LudwigVanQuixote
Yeah, the narration is pretty simplistic, but the stellar dynamics stuff is very well rendered. Pretty cool to think about a 4,000,000 solar mass black hole at the center of our galaxy. There are even bigger ones, but that is monster enough.
It was awesome, and I loved that it was Liam Neeson. Thank you for sharing it.
| 241 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Aug 30, 2009 9:09:26pm |
re: #234 Gus 802
Then there was this:
[Link: www.whitehouse.gov…]
A scene from the Robert Gibbs Comedy Hour. Most unintentionally hilarious, always stupid.
| 242 |
Gus Sun, Aug 30, 2009 9:09:37pm |
re: #238 Mich-again
Linkie no workie. Was that an auto-redirect?
Oops.
White House Google search for “Organizing for America.”
Try that.
| 243 |
iceweasel Sun, Aug 30, 2009 9:09:45pm |
re: #40 Killgore Trout
As for bumper stickers and buses that does seem new. Not sure where the money comes from. Maybe part of the press office.
The money is coming from supporters. The DCCC has been sending out calls for contributions to counteract the Republican smear campaign about healthcare— the lies about the Death panels, the lies about euthanisa, the lies about a VA “Death Book”, and the lie that Michael Steele put his name to just the other day:
In a “poll” mailed to supporters, the RNC is actually suggesting that health insurance reform is a Democratic plot to deny health care to Republicans using voter registration data:
Text from email from the DCCC’s Rapid Response Team:
This is shameless fear-mongering at its worst — and it is just a preview of the falsehoods, fabrications and outright lies Republicans will be pushing when Congress returns in September. We must be prepared to fight back hard and respond immediately to these outrageous attacks.Help us reach our $100,000 goal before the August 31st FEC deadline: Contribute $5, $10 or more today to support critical Health Insurance Reform.
No mystery here, no conspiracy, no Soros plot. The money is coming from Democrats, Obama contributors, progressives, supporters of reform.
| 244 |
yochanan Sun, Aug 30, 2009 9:10:20pm |
re: #235 ryannon
what about rosie o’d, any known member of A.N.S.W.E.R. or the world can’t wait?
| 245 |
Mich-again Sun, Aug 30, 2009 9:10:25pm |
re: #234 Gus 802
MR. GIBBS: Well, let’s — hold on. Let me — I’m not entirely sure what the question was, but let me put down some fence posts in the speech. OFA and the White House Web site, as you well know, are not in any way connected. Point number one.
Not in any way connected! Yeah right except for the part about how the same guy controls them both!
| 246 |
iceweasel Sun, Aug 30, 2009 9:10:39pm |
re: #229 Mich-again
Google remembers what the webmaster forgot. Again I see the same disclaimer…
I say that if its promoted on a candidate’s website, the candidate endorses it. I’m not talking about a reader comment buried in a blog entry, I’m talking about the entire mission for the website. If you search “Organizing for America” it leads you to BarackObama.com and then it carries a disclaimer that no candidate endorses it. I call instant bullshit. Of course Obama endorses it. Its his campaign website!
Organising for America is the offshoot of Obama for America, Obama’s campaign organisation.
| 247 |
realwest Sun, Aug 30, 2009 9:11:07pm |
re: #230 njdhockeyfan
Too bad that when they say (or wear tee shirts or carry signs that say) “Single Taxpayer For All” they aren’t reading the Health Care bill - it doesn’t apply to Federal employees (especially not Congresscitters or their staffs) nor certain Union memberships.
I think I’d go for single payor under those circumstances, I mean what the hell, the “elities” can always buy the health care they want anyway.
| 248 |
yochanan Sun, Aug 30, 2009 9:11:36pm |
re: #243 iceweasel
how about democrat lies THE GOV’T CAN RUN IT FOR LESS?
or that mal-practice only costs 1%
| 249 |
Mich-again Sun, Aug 30, 2009 9:12:17pm |
re: #243 iceweasel
The money is coming from supporters.
Really? Then why can’t they afford their own website? They freeload their independent message on BarackObama.com instead.
Who writes your jokes?
| 250 |
Desert Dog Sun, Aug 30, 2009 9:12:43pm |
re: #230 njdhockeyfan
Here is an example of what Organizing for America is doing at health care protests.
Organizing for America Bus Tour: Manufacturing Consent
Notice the fake homemade signs. This is the problem for the left in the health care debate. People who oppose the bill are sincere and passionate about there opposition and you can see that in the videos. The pro-ObamaCare protesters are ordered to go, most of them are bussed in from elsewhere, and they show up with pre-printed signs. No wonder the support is sliding…Americans will not be fooled.
Pathetic…manufactured and phony
| 251 |
iceweasel Sun, Aug 30, 2009 9:13:37pm |
re: #236 Mich-again
The very essence of astroturfing. Fake grass roots. Nancy Pelosi was throwing that term around using her own made-up definition. The protesters at Town Hall meetings were more crabgrass than astroturf. Organizing for America is astroturf. Heck, its cheap astroturf. More like indoor/outdoor carpet.
No, Organising for America is made up of all the people who were part of Obama for America, every contributor who gave 5 dollars, everyone who made a call for him, everyone who knocked on a door for him, everyone who bought an Obama bumpersticker.
It’s the new name for the entire network that worked for Obama’s election, and the Republicans would do well to learn from their grass roots activism about how to harness popular opinion and maintain the organisation.
| 252 |
Mich-again Sun, Aug 30, 2009 9:13:38pm |
re: #246 iceweasel
Organising for America is the offshoot of Obama for America, Obama’s campaign organisation.
Its not an offshoot. Its the same exact tree.
| 253 |
ryannon Sun, Aug 30, 2009 9:13:38pm |
re: #244 yochanan
what about rosie o’d, any known member of A.N.S.W.E.R. or the world can’t wait?
I’d like to joke about it, but I can’t. It’s turning into a major catastrophe: two firefighters just died fighting it.
| 254 |
Racer X Sun, Aug 30, 2009 9:13:49pm |
re: #243 iceweasel
Ice, we may not always agree but I got much respect for you. We simply cannot afford another trillion dollar expense right now. We cannot afford to make the government bigger.
We are broke.
We can pick up this debate again in about two years. If an issue such as this is so polarizing, why force it - especially when America is broke?
| 255 |
Walter L. Newton Sun, Aug 30, 2009 9:13:49pm |
re: #230 njdhockeyfan
Here is an example of what Organizing for America is doing at health care protests.
Organizing for America Bus Tour: Manufacturing Consent
Notice the fake homemade signs. This is the problem for the left in the health care debate. People who oppose the bill are sincere and passionate about there opposition and you can see that in the videos. The pro-ObamaCare protesters are ordered to go, most of them are bussed in from elsewhere, and they show up with pre-printed signs. No wonder the support is sliding…Americans will not be fooled.
But how can this be? I’ve been told by progressive, right here on LGF that Organizing for America IS grass roots. They are grass roots because they get money from mom and pop progressives who send in their hard earned entitlement money to support all these rallies.
You must have all this confused with conservatives?
/
| 256 |
realwest Sun, Aug 30, 2009 9:14:00pm |
OT from politics for a minute y’all - any tech types out there who can assist me?
| 257 |
Desert Dog Sun, Aug 30, 2009 9:14:43pm |
re: #199 LudwigVanQuixote
OT, but in case anyone wants their cool as shit meter to go off scale, check this out.
[Link: www.hulu.com…]
Very cool, thank you!
| 258 |
TheMatrix31 Sun, Aug 30, 2009 9:15:09pm |
re: #250 Desert Dog
Pathetic…manufactured and phony
Just like the rest of the liberals, and the people in this forsaken city known as Los Angeles, CA.
| 259 |
Gus Sun, Aug 30, 2009 9:15:10pm |
re: #243 iceweasel
I don’t think there’s any conspiracy and everything’s probably legal. However, after reviewing some information I think they are connected to a great extent. They do not have an office in the White House but they do cooperate on the health reform issue.
I am basing it on this statement:
THE WHITE HOUSE
Office of the Press Secretary August 20, 2009
I want to acknowledge my great friend Tim Kaine, who joined us earlier by phone, and is doing just a great job on behalf of not only the people of Virginia but also on behalf of Democrats all across the country.
And to all of my Organizing for America volunteers, thank you so much for your unbelievable dedication. It is good to be here. (Applause.)
It’s great to be here with all of you because it reminds me of how we got here in the first place. We’re here because you believed that after an era of selfishness and greed, that we could reclaim a sense of responsibility and a sense that we have obligations to each other not just here in Washington but all across the country. You believed that instead of growing inequality, we could restore a sense of fairness and balance to our economic life and create lasting growth and prosperity. You believed that at a time of war and turmoil, we could stand strong against our enemies, but also stand firmly for our ideals, and reach out to the rest of the world and describe to them what America is about and how we can forge together a world of common interests and common concerns.
It is perhaps a technicality but if they weren’t associated he would have said “and to all of the Organizing for America volunteers.” Slip of the tongue perhaps?
| 260 |
Racer X Sun, Aug 30, 2009 9:15:17pm |
re: #253 ryannon
I’d like to joke about it, but I can’t. It’s turning into a major catastrophe: two firefighters just died fighting it.
Oh no!
| 261 |
Opilio Sun, Aug 30, 2009 9:15:36pm |
re: #246 iceweasel
Organising for America is the offshoot of Obama for America, Obama’s campaign organisation.
Canadian? British? Aussie? Or just a fan of alternative spelling?
| 262 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Aug 30, 2009 9:16:14pm |
re: #243 iceweasel
No mystery here, no conspiracy, no Soros plot. The money is coming from Democrats, Obama contributors, progressives, supporters of
reformsocialism and rationing.
fixed
| 263 |
Desert Dog Sun, Aug 30, 2009 9:16:21pm |
re: #251 iceweasel
No, Organising for America is made up of all the people who were part of Obama for America, every contributor who gave 5 dollars, everyone who made a call for him, everyone who knocked on a door for him, everyone who bought an Obama bumpersticker.
It’s the new name for the entire network that worked for Obama’s election, and the Republicans would do well to learn from their grass roots activism about how to harness popular opinion and maintain the organisation.
Well, the grassroots in the DNC have given way to corporate-roots now…I’d say their “street cred” level is about -10 right now.
| 264 |
Walter L. Newton Sun, Aug 30, 2009 9:16:44pm |
re: #251 iceweasel
No, Organising for America is made up of all the people who were part of Obama for America, every contributor who gave 5 dollars, everyone who made a call for him, everyone who knocked on a door for him, everyone who bought an Obama bumpersticker.
It’s the new name for the entire network that worked for Obama’s election, and the Republicans would do well to learn from their grass roots activism about how to harness popular opinion and maintain the organisation.
Actually, conservatives would learn well from Alinsky. Got the book right in my hand, gee, I wonder where Organising for America gets all their ideas from?
| 265 |
Sharmuta Sun, Aug 30, 2009 9:16:48pm |
Ludwig- I recall watching a program years ago that discussed the discovery of a super massive black hole at the center of Andromeda, but they hadn’t been expecting to find it there. I was fascinated. Space stuff always reels me in. Loved that hulu- thank you again.
| 266 |
Bobblehead Sun, Aug 30, 2009 9:16:55pm |
Instapundit has a good screen shot of what’s happening on Mt. Wilson for those of you who can’t get the skycam to load.
| 267 |
njdhockeyfan Sun, Aug 30, 2009 9:17:02pm |
re: #255 Walter L. Newton
But how can this be? I’ve been told by progressive, right here on LGF that Organizing for America IS grass roots. They are grass roots because they get money from mom and pop progressives who send in their hard earned entitlement money to support all these rallies.
You must have all this confused with conservatives?
/
This is interesting. About halfway down I read this:
Here is an email forwarded by another Prager listener:
“I just returned from a rally for health care reform held at North High School in Denver. As Erin and I were entering the staging area we were approached by people carrying clipboards. We were told we could not enter without signing our name and address on the form. I asked why they needed this information and was told they must know who was entering the area.This was a tax payer supported high school property hosting public speakers and I was being denied entry unless the clipboard form was completed. I was very uncomfortable with this request and remained outside the chain link fence to listen to the speakers. The first speaker was my very own repesentative, Ed Permutter who thanked all who had signed the clipboard form and stated that all these signatures would go on to to Washington showing support of the Obama Health Care Plan. I could not believe what I heard. Never was it stated that this form was a support of the health care plan. I just wonder how many people were dooped into signing this when they do not support the bill or do not know enough about it to make a decision.People carrying signs supporting the bill were permitted entry with their signs, those opposing had to remain outside.
Can you f’king believe that shit?
| 268 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Aug 30, 2009 9:17:04pm |
re: #256 realwest
OT from politics for a minute y’all - any tech types out there who can assist me?
What’s the matter, RW?
| 269 |
realwest Sun, Aug 30, 2009 9:17:07pm |
re: #261 Opilio
IIRC, iceweasel has said he or she is an American who has spent many years in Great Britain which is why he or she sometimes spells things with incorrect English!
| 270 |
Gus Sun, Aug 30, 2009 9:17:23pm |
re: #259 Gus 802
Just to clarify this isn’t specific to the DNC and the White House. The RNC and previous administration have engaged in the same type of political activity. However, I’m trying to stay focused on the current question.
| 271 |
iceweasel Sun, Aug 30, 2009 9:17:29pm |
re: #250 Desert Dog
Pathetic…manufactured and phony
I seem to recall certain sentiments being expressed here and elsewhere on the right about Obama’s whole campaign and his supporters, last summer. That it was all manufactured and phony, that it was all made up by the media, that the polls were all biased, and that there was really nothing to worry about because McCain/Palin were unbeatable and the Bradley effect showed that all those white liberals who said they supported Obama were really racists who would never vote for him.
Yeah, that worked out well.
| 272 |
Desert Dog Sun, Aug 30, 2009 9:17:36pm |
| 273 |
Desert Dog Sun, Aug 30, 2009 9:18:27pm |
re: #271 iceweasel
I seem to recall certain sentiments being expressed here and elsewhere on the right about Obama’s whole campaign and his supporters, last summer. That it was all manufactured and phony, that it was all made up by the media, that the polls were all biased, and that there was really nothing to worry about because McCain/Palin were unbeatable and the Bradley effect showed that all those white liberals who said they supported Obama were really racists who would never vote for him.
Yeah, that worked out well.
Not quite the way I remember it. The people and emotions were real. It was the candidate that was a phony.
| 274 |
Desert Dog Sun, Aug 30, 2009 9:18:58pm |
re: #271 iceweasel
I seem to recall certain sentiments being expressed here and elsewhere on the right about Obama’s whole campaign and his supporters, last summer. That it was all manufactured and phony, that it was all made up by the media, that the polls were all biased, and that there was really nothing to worry about because McCain/Palin were unbeatable and the Bradley effect showed that all those white liberals who said they supported Obama were really racists who would never vote for him.
Yeah, that worked out well.
And…it’s not working out so well now, is it? :-p
| 275 |
iceweasel Sun, Aug 30, 2009 9:19:09pm |
re: #269 realwest
IIRC, iceweasel has said he or she is an American who has spent many years in Great Britain which is why he or she sometimes spells things with incorrect English!
The English and the Americans are two peoples divided by a common language.
| 276 |
Walter L. Newton Sun, Aug 30, 2009 9:19:10pm |
re: #267 njdhockeyfan
Can you f’king believe that shit?
I can, ask Iceweasel, maybe she can explain it?
| 277 |
Mich-again Sun, Aug 30, 2009 9:19:24pm |
re: #251 iceweasel
No, Organising for America is made up of all the people who were part of Obama for America, every contributor who gave 5 dollars, everyone who made a call for him, everyone who knocked on a door for him, everyone who bought an Obama bumpersticker.
Maybe you didn’t read the boilerplate disclaimer that “Organizing for America” uses.
Paid for by Organizing for America, a project of the Democratic National Committee — 430 South Capitol Street SE, Washington, D.C. 20003. This communication is not authorized by any candidate or candidate’s committee.
They try to present themselves as being independent from any campaign, but they use a campaign website for a home page. Lazy or stupid? which is it.
| 278 |
Opilio Sun, Aug 30, 2009 9:19:46pm |
re: #269 realwest
IIRC, iceweasel has said he or she is an American who has spent many years in Great Britain which is why he or she sometimes spells things with incorrect English!
Thanks, RW.
| 279 |
Syrah Sun, Aug 30, 2009 9:20:02pm |
re: #226 ryannon
It finally connected: looks like a scene out of Dante or Bosch…
I got an image.
Smoke and fire.
Lots of both.
I right clicked on the blank image, selected “open image in new tab”, and it pulled something up from a nightmare. (Using Safari.)
| 280 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Aug 30, 2009 9:20:07pm |
re: #264 Walter L. Newton
Actually, conservatives would learn well from Alinsky. Got the book right in my hand, gee, I wonder where Organising for America gets all their ideas from?
Don’t talk like that Walter. We want to build, Alinsky wanted to destroy. He did not care about who he hurt and we do. We are too good to use Alinsky’s tactics, never forget that.
| 281 |
iceweasel Sun, Aug 30, 2009 9:20:13pm |
re: #261 Opilio
Canadian? British? Aussie? Or just a fan of alternative spelling?
I’m a filthy tricksy lib, I’m a fan of alternative everything. ;) Energy sources, music, sexualities…etc.
| 282 |
Racer X Sun, Aug 30, 2009 9:20:30pm |
re: #267 njdhockeyfan
I just wonder how many people were dooped into signing this when they do not support the bill or do not know enough about it to make a decision.People carrying signs supporting the bill were permitted entry with their signs, those opposing had to remain outside.
Hahahahahaha!
Those stupid Republicans!
/
| 283 |
realwest Sun, Aug 30, 2009 9:21:07pm |
re: #268 Dark_Falcon
Hey my friend - last week a virus or phiser called
“windows virus defender” tried to infect my ‘puter - I did all the usual stuff - cleared temp files, cookies, history etc. shut down then ran a full Norton Internet Security Scan and it picked up that “windows virus defender” and quarantined it.
Well I got it again today - did the same shit I did last week only this time Norton didn’t pick it up at all.
What’s up with that, do you think?
| 284 |
Jimmah Sun, Aug 30, 2009 9:21:11pm |
re: #64 Sharmuta
Obviously not.
“re: #265 Sharmuta
Ludwig- I recall watching a program years ago that discussed the discovery of a super massive black hole at the center of Andromeda, but they hadn’t been expecting to find it there. I was fascinated. Space stuff always reels me in. Loved that hulu- thank you again.
Here is a candle to light you to bed, and here is a zombie to derail your thread”
Did you know that Andromeda is on it’s way here?
| 285 |
yochanan Sun, Aug 30, 2009 9:21:58pm |
re: #254 Racer X
because if you listen to the great and wonderful zero everything has to be done right now, not even enough time to read the porkulus bill but most of it will not be spent until just before the elections.
| 286 |
iceweasel Sun, Aug 30, 2009 9:22:00pm |
re: #254 Racer X
Ice, we may not always agree but I got much respect for you. We simply cannot afford another trillion dollar expense right now. We cannot afford to make the government bigger.
We are broke.
We can pick up this debate again in about two years. If an issue such as this is so polarizing, why force it - especially when America is broke?
I think we need to do it, because we’ve needed it for years. And more and more people are losing coverage all the time.
That being said, Obama can certainly be a fan of “the fierce urgency of ‘whenever’ ” as it suits him (DOMA, DADT)
| 288 |
Desert Dog Sun, Aug 30, 2009 9:23:03pm |
re: #286 iceweasel
I think we need to do it, because we’ve needed it for years. And more and more people are losing coverage all the time.
That being said, Obama can certainly be a fan of “the fierce urgency of ‘whenever’ ” as it suits him (DOMA, DADT)
His “Hey, I won” card only has so many uses before it loses it’s charm. I’d say we are almost there.
| 289 |
jaunte Sun, Aug 30, 2009 9:23:20pm |
re: #273 Desert Dog
It was the candidate that was a phony.
that was John Pilger’s assessment, too: (video)
[Link: www.hurryupharry.org…]
| 290 |
Killgore Trout Sun, Aug 30, 2009 9:23:30pm |
re: #277 Mich-again
They try to present themselves as being independent from any campaign, but they use a campaign website for a home page. Lazy or stupid? which is it.
It’s probably a technicality that they have to say that for FEC regulations. You’ll probably find the same disclaimer for GOP front groups too.
| 291 |
Mich-again Sun, Aug 30, 2009 9:23:51pm |
re: #271 iceweasel
I seem to recall certain sentiments being expressed here and elsewhere on the right about…
Oh so you are rationalizing the BS by saying “The other side does it too!”
| 292 |
Desert Dog Sun, Aug 30, 2009 9:24:11pm |
re: #287 Dark_Falcon
OT:
I will go out on a limb and say Santa will be bringing them lumps of coal this year.
| 293 |
realwest Sun, Aug 30, 2009 9:24:22pm |
re: #279 Syrah Hi Syrah - wish I had Safari now - but I do have a photo from the Tower Cam and it is as you describe it.
| 294 |
Mich-again Sun, Aug 30, 2009 9:24:38pm |
re: #290 Killgore Trout
You’ll probably find the same disclaimer for GOP front groups too.
That was weak. Go find one.
| 295 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Aug 30, 2009 9:25:11pm |
re: #283 realwest
Hey my friend - last week a virus or phiser called
“windows virus defender” tried to infect my ‘puter - I did all the usual stuff - cleared temp files, cookies, history etc. shut down then ran a full Norton Internet Security Scan and it picked up that “windows virus defender” and quarantined it.
Well I got it again today - did the same shit I did last week only this time Norton didn’t pick it up at all.
What’s up with that, do you think?
Check out Norton’s website at symantec.com. They list the steps need to purge the damned thing for good and for all there. I’ll look it up there and post.
| 296 |
iceweasel Sun, Aug 30, 2009 9:25:30pm |
re: #263 Desert Dog
Well, the grassroots in the DNC have given way to corporate-roots now…I’d say their “street cred” level is about -10 right now.
Yeah, that always happens. The political elites in our country serve the interests of the corporate elites, on both sides.
That being said, Obama does still have this huge activist group harnassed, and they consist of loads of ordinary people, many of whom do not agree with him (see me, and every other progressive practically) but all of whom think reform is necessary.
The right would do well to learn from Obama’s organisation. Just sayin’.
| 297 |
Racer X Sun, Aug 30, 2009 9:25:52pm |
re: #286 iceweasel
I think we need to do it, because we’ve needed it for years. And more and more people are losing coverage all the time.
That being said, Obama can certainly be a fan of “the fierce urgency of ‘whenever’ ” as it suits him (DOMA, DADT)
Why the rush? Why now? I understand lots of people are lacking quality health care. In an emergency people are getting treated on the government’s (you and me) dime.
| 298 |
Mich-again Sun, Aug 30, 2009 9:27:07pm |
re: #296 iceweasel
That being said, Obama does still have this huge activist group harnassed, and they consist of loads of ordinary people, many of whom do not agree with him
Of course as soon as they disagree with him they won’t be “ordinary” people anymore. They’ll be radicals and extremists.
| 299 |
iceweasel Sun, Aug 30, 2009 9:27:12pm |
re: #291 Mich-again
Oh so you are rationalizing the BS by saying “The other side does it too!”
No, I’m pointing out that there is often a tendency among a losing or out of power political party to dismiss the other side as incompetent, or ‘not really supported’, or ‘elected by idiots’, etc.
The left did it too. It’s not a winning strategy.
| 300 |
realwest Sun, Aug 30, 2009 9:27:18pm |
re: #295 Dark_Falcon
Thankew my friend - I appreciate it - I did contact Norton by “chat” today and kept getting put in the line for “advanced review” and of course, no one ever came on the line. Ever.
| 301 |
Jimmah Sun, Aug 30, 2009 9:27:51pm |
re: #281 iceweasel
I’m a filthy tricksy lib, I’m a fan of alternative everything. ;) Energy sources, music, sexualities…etc.
Speaking of alternative music, I think it’s time for some supermassive super heavy RAWK!
| 302 |
TheMatrix31 Sun, Aug 30, 2009 9:28:01pm |
re: #297 Racer X
Why the rush? Why now? I understand lots of people are lacking quality health care. In an emergency people are getting treated on the government’s (you and me) dime.
Because if we don’t, bad things will happen. Oh, and because it’s a moral obligation.
/
| 303 |
njdhockeyfan Sun, Aug 30, 2009 9:29:07pm |
re: #298 Mich-again
Of course as soon as they disagree with him they won’t be “ordinary” people anymore. They’ll be radicals and extremists.
And racists!
| 304 |
Desert Dog Sun, Aug 30, 2009 9:29:13pm |
re: #283 realwest
Hey my friend - last week a virus or phiser called
“windows virus defender” tried to infect my ‘puter - I did all the usual stuff - cleared temp files, cookies, history etc. shut down then ran a full Norton Internet Security Scan and it picked up that “windows virus defender” and quarantined it.
Well I got it again today - did the same shit I did last week only this time Norton didn’t pick it up at all.
What’s up with that, do you think?
HI RW,
Download this program and scan your pc, it may pick up some of the bits still messing with you.
Malwarebytes
no need to buy the full version right now…the free one will let you know if there is some nastiness on your pc.
If it keeps coming back, you may have to load another program called “HijackThis!” and get a record of your registry. You may have some issues in there that might have to be removed line by line That’s what happened to my desktop when my son loaded in a similar malware “ransom” program
| 305 |
Van Helsing Sun, Aug 30, 2009 9:29:39pm |
re: #264 Walter L. Newton
Actually, conservatives would learn well from Alinsky. Got the book right in my hand, gee, I wonder where Organising for America gets all their ideas from?
Walter, you know that it’s not fair to use their tactics against them. Didn’t you hear the wailing and gnashing of teeth when people started ridiculing the health care proposal and demonizing those empty airbags in congress? Its just not fair, dammit!
| 306 |
Desert Dog Sun, Aug 30, 2009 9:30:04pm |
re: #296 iceweasel
Yeah, that always happens. The political elites in our country serve the interests of the corporate elites, on both sides.
That being said, Obama does still have this huge activist group harnassed, and they consist of loads of ordinary people, many of whom do not agree with him (see me, and every other progressive practically) but all of whom think reform is necessary.
The right would do well to learn from Obama’s organisation. Just sayin’.
Gotta agree on that one
| 307 |
realwest Sun, Aug 30, 2009 9:30:05pm |
re: #296 iceweasel
I agree that the Right (whomever that actually is) could learn a lot about organizing from Obama.
But one question I have and haven’t been able to find an answer to is this: where did the number of 48 million Americans who cannot afford to buy healthcare insurancecome from, do you know?
| 308 |
jaunte Sun, Aug 30, 2009 9:30:13pm |
Goodnight all.
Here’s a thought for the night from Thomas Sowell:
“Many of those with an unconstrained vision and a passionate opposition to inequality of results assume that those who oppose them must be in favor of inequality of results, either on philosophic grounds or as a matter of narrow self-interest. In reality, those with the constrained vision may be passionately devoted to certain processes (freedom to choose, the “rule of law,” etc.) and only secondarily concerned with whether any particular result is equal or unequal.”
| 309 |
Gus Sun, Aug 30, 2009 9:30:16pm |
Organizing for America’s executive director is Mitch Stewart:
Work on Obama 2008 Presidential Campaign
Mitch Stewart directed Obama’s campaign in the Iowa caucus, where the candidate’s first place win established him as a serious challenger to then front-runner Hillary Rodham Clinton. He also directed Obama’s primary campaign in Texas and Indiana.
He later headed the campaign’s Virginia operation in the general election. Obama’s victory there marked the first time in many years that Virginia’s delegates went to a Democratic presidential candidate.
Director of Organizing for America
On January 23, 2009, it was announced that Mitch Stewart would serve as the first Director of Organizing for America.
Organizing for America was formed out of Obama’s national campaign organization after the inauguration. It will be housed at DNC headquarters. The organization’s mission is to mobilize Obama supporters to elect other candidates and lobby for the president’s agenda.
[Link: en.wikipedia.org…]
| 310 |
Racer X Sun, Aug 30, 2009 9:30:24pm |
I’ve got bad news everyone - we’re in a depression recession. Businesses are struggling. People are suffering. Santa Government cannot bring presents this year.
Sorry.
| 311 |
Desert Dog Sun, Aug 30, 2009 9:30:48pm |
re: #297 Racer X
Why the rush? Why now? I understand lots of people are lacking quality health care. In an emergency people are getting treated on the government’s (you and me) dime.
Because he may not have the voters later on, hence the rush now.
| 312 |
Killgore Trout Sun, Aug 30, 2009 9:31:23pm |
re: #294 Mich-again
That was weak. Go find one.
It’s really not that important. I’m just guessing. I know you want this to be a big conspiracy but it isn’t. At best it might violate some technicality on campaign finance or something but it’s really nothing unusual.
| 313 |
Racer X Sun, Aug 30, 2009 9:32:07pm |
re: #311 Desert Dog
Because he may not have the voters later on, hence the rush now.
Wait, you’re saying it is not so much a moral imperative, as a political one?
Whoodathunk it?
| 314 |
Mich-again Sun, Aug 30, 2009 9:32:10pm |
re: #299 iceweasel
No, I’m pointing out that there is often a tendency among a losing or out of power political party to dismiss the other side as incompetent, or ‘not really supported’, or ‘elected by idiots’, etc.
Who said they were any of that? Not me. I am only pointing out that “Organizing for America” is an Obama led initiative and any disclaimer they use that says OFA is a DNC organization that is not supported by any candidate or candidate’s committee is pure bullshit, seeing as the so-called independent organization uses a candidate’s campaign website for a homepage.
But feel free to keep using straw man arguments and moving the goal posts.
| 315 |
Desert Dog Sun, Aug 30, 2009 9:32:46pm |
re: #312 Killgore Trout
It’s really not that important. I’m just guessing. I know you want this to be a big conspiracy but it isn’t. At best it might violate some technicality on campaign finance or something but it’s really nothing unusual.
I would guess it’s SOP for both parties. A non issue and non scandal, fer sure.
| 316 |
Syrah Sun, Aug 30, 2009 9:32:47pm |
re: #308 jaunte
Goodnight all.
Here’s a thought for the night from Thomas Sowell:
“Many of those with an unconstrained vision and a passionate opposition to inequality of results assume that those who oppose them must be in favor of inequality of results, either on philosophic grounds or as a matter of narrow self-interest. In reality, those with the constrained vision may be passionately devoted to certain processes (freedom to choose, the “rule of law,” etc.) and only secondarily concerned with whether any particular result is equal or unequal.”
Some people think everybody should be able to/ have to play by the same rules. Special rules for some is injustice for everyone.
| 317 |
Killgore Trout Sun, Aug 30, 2009 9:33:03pm |
re: #309 Gus 802
Organizing for America was formed out of Obama’s national campaign organization after the inauguration. It will be housed at DNC headquarters. The organization’s mission is to mobilize Obama supporters to elect other candidates and lobby for the president’s agenda.
Oh, noes. Wikipedia haz seeekrit informaishun!
| 319 |
Mich-again Sun, Aug 30, 2009 9:33:12pm |
re: #312 Killgore Trout
At best it might violate some technicality on campaign finance or something but it’s really nothing unusual.
More of the “Everyone does it” line of defense. Nice.
| 320 |
MrPaulRevere Sun, Aug 30, 2009 9:33:50pm |
Realwest, ‘windows defender’ doesn’t seem to be malicious in any way. People who reviewed it weren’t real enthused about it though. It has a homepage here: [Link: www.microsoft.com…]
| 321 |
realwest Sun, Aug 30, 2009 9:33:51pm |
re: #304 Desert Dog
Thanks my friend, but I’ve already contacted Norton, unsatisfactory as it was, and now have an “immeditate” case file number and a phone number to call - I THINK they said that since Norton picked it off last week, it’s now gone someplace Norton’s Scans don’t go to, and tomorrow - hopefully, today was Sunday - they’ll have more techs available to help.
If they don’t or that doesn’t work, I’ll try your method!
| 322 |
Killgore Trout Sun, Aug 30, 2009 9:34:56pm |
re: #319 Mich-again
More of the “Everyone does it” line of defense. Nice.
yes, everyone does it, it’s perfectly legal and common practice. Why freak out about it?
| 323 |
TheMatrix31 Sun, Aug 30, 2009 9:35:11pm |
re: #310 Racer X
I’ve got bad news everyone - we’re in a
depressionrecession. Businesses are struggling. People are suffering. Santa Government cannot bring presents this year.Sorry.
Can he still bring me three ho’s?
| 324 |
Mich-again Sun, Aug 30, 2009 9:36:24pm |
re: #317 Killgore Trout
It will be housed at DNC headquarters.
Except for the website which does the recruiting and handles the donations and mailing lists. That part will stay under the control of the Committee to re-elect Obama.
| 325 |
Desert Dog Sun, Aug 30, 2009 9:36:35pm |
re: #320 MrPaulRevere
Realwest, ‘windows defender’ doesn’t seem to be malicious in any way. People who reviewed it weren’t real enthused about it though. It has a homepage here: [Link: www.microsoft.com…]
You can disable Windows Defender if you wish (I did).
You don’t need it and it sometimes causes conflicts with other softwares.
How to unistall Windows Defender
| 326 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Aug 30, 2009 9:37:02pm |
re: #321 realwest
Thanks my friend, but I’ve already contacted Norton, unsatisfactory as it was, and now have an “immeditate” case file number and a phone number to call - I THINK they said that since Norton picked it off last week, it’s now gone someplace Norton’s Scans don’t go to, and tomorrow - hopefully, today was Sunday - they’ll have more techs available to help.
If they don’t or that doesn’t work, I’ll try your method!
Most likely, Norton only got part of it. You may need to use Desert Dog’s methods to clear it out for. My own search came up empty.
| 327 |
yochanan Sun, Aug 30, 2009 9:37:10pm |
re: #319 Mich-again
reminds me of my congresscritter who’s hubby had to plead guilty for bank fraud and tax evasion but the feds just slapped him on the wrist and let him serve it under house arrest (having met the dear congresscritter that might be like doing hard time)
| 328 |
Gus Sun, Aug 30, 2009 9:37:17pm |
re: #317 Killgore Trout
Oh, noes. Wikipedia haz seeekrit informaishun!
Like I said, it’s on the level and it is run by the DNC. But it is doing the leg work for Obama and has a great deep seated connection to the White House. They’re astroturfing for the White House by way of the DNC. Astroturfing is still legal. However, for Obama to say “my Organizing for America volunteers” and then have Gibbs say, “we have nothing to do with them” or that they are independent does reek of BS to me.
| 329 |
Mich-again Sun, Aug 30, 2009 9:37:19pm |
re: #322 Killgore Trout
Why freak out about it?
Why lie about it not being endorsed by any candidate or candidate’s committee?
| 330 |
Desert Dog Sun, Aug 30, 2009 9:37:40pm |
re: #322 Killgore Trout
yes, everyone does it, it’s perfectly legal and common practice. Why freak out about it?
Both parties do this type of thing. If McCain somehow managed to win by a freak of nature, the GOP would be doing the exact same thing.
| 331 |
FemNaziBitch Sun, Aug 30, 2009 9:38:00pm |
Hey Night Lizards! Have I talked to you about my Neti Pot? I can’t tell you what a difference it has made this Chicagoland allergy season. (for the way better).
From Charles Link
“In reality of course, Netanyahu has repeatedly offered unconditional peace talks with the Palestinians (as well as making substantial concessions) while PA President Mahmoud Abbas has steadfastly refused any talks until all of his conditions are met first.”
I think that is the entire history of Israel/Palestinian relations in a succinct paragraph. Just change the names to correspond with any past date.
How are you-all and what are we talking about?
| 332 |
yochanan Sun, Aug 30, 2009 9:38:28pm |
did i say my congresscritter was a leftist donk.
| 333 |
Mich-again Sun, Aug 30, 2009 9:38:39pm |
re: #330 Desert Dog
If McCain somehow managed to win by a freak of nature, the GOP would be doing the exact same thing.
Ah yes. Everyone does it so it must be OK.
| 334 |
MrPaulRevere Sun, Aug 30, 2009 9:38:43pm |
Realwest, more useful info here…Important note about fake antivirus: [Link: www.microsoft.com…]
| 335 |
Desert Dog Sun, Aug 30, 2009 9:38:51pm |
re: #331 ggt
Hey Night Lizards! Have I talked to you about my Neti Pot? I can’t tell you what a difference it has made this Chicagoland allergy season. (for the way better).
From Charles Link
I think that is the entire history of Israel/Palestinian relations in a succinct paragraph. Just change the names to correspond with any past date.
How are you-all and what are we talking about?
best.invention.ever
| 336 |
Van Helsing Sun, Aug 30, 2009 9:39:53pm |
re: #332 yochanan
did i say my congresscritter was a leftist donk.
You didn’t really need to.
Sure seems to be alot of them can’t quite get there taxes right.
Maybe if it was simpler…
Nah. never happen.
| 337 |
Desert Dog Sun, Aug 30, 2009 9:39:53pm |
re: #333 Mich-again
Ah yes. Everyone does it so it must be OK.
I think it stinks, actually…another example of the massive amount of money wasted by both sides. But, it is legal…I think it should not be, but it is right now
| 338 |
FemNaziBitch Sun, Aug 30, 2009 9:40:05pm |
re: #335 Desert Dog
best.invention.ever
No kidding. I’m shocked (I tell you shocked) I fought so hard not to use it for so long.
| 339 |
solomonpanting Sun, Aug 30, 2009 9:40:34pm |
| 340 |
yochanan Sun, Aug 30, 2009 9:40:44pm |
on afganistan John McCain might have done the same thing BUT I DON’T SEE JOHN CREATING THE NEW AND BETTER U.S.S.A
| 341 |
Desert Dog Sun, Aug 30, 2009 9:41:04pm |
re: #338 ggt
No kidding. I’m shocked (I tell you shocked) I fought so hard not to use it for so long.
It works so well on my allergies, I have not taken any meds to combat my hay fever for years…it cleans all of that crap out.
| 342 |
realwest Sun, Aug 30, 2009 9:41:05pm |
re: #320 MrPaulRevere
Damn, did I say Windows Defender?! I meant “windows virus doctor” and what it does, according to Norton, is indicate that you are infected (in my case) with 8 viruses/trojans and if you only download and install and run their product (somewhere after the download comes the pitch for money by credit card) they’ll clean up those nasty little bugs.
| 343 |
iceweasel Sun, Aug 30, 2009 9:41:42pm |
re: #311 Desert Dog
Because he may not have the voters later on, hence the rush now.
Don’t forget that McCain promised health care reform too. We do need it. Obama was elected in large part because he promised it. And some of pushing it through now is about the votes…but there’s also (as always) a larger political strategy here. It’s about 2010 and beyond.
If the Dems pass health care reform, — ANY sort — the Republicans will be out of power for a generation. The Republicans know it. That’s why they’ll do anything to block it — including disseminating outright lies, rather than engaging in a useful discussion about what kind we should have and why.
The Blue Dog Dems have the short-term view of maintaining their personal power and winning re-election. They’re reluctant to side with the Dems as a bloc for that reason. And the actual number of progressives among the elected Dems is very small.
And we must never forget that the resistance to reform is also because both sides are beholden to pharmaceutical companies and insurance companies— hence the deal Obama was cutting with Big Pharma.
I don’t know what kind of plan we’ll wind up with after the bloodbath takes place this fall, so I can’t say yet whether I support it. I support reform, and I support a public option.
But I also am aware that very little of what’s going on is truly about the American people, and as always is a political football where both sides are maneuvering for the best advantage.
| 344 |
MrPaulRevere Sun, Aug 30, 2009 9:41:51pm |
re: #332 yochanan
You’re not alone, mine is a Castro fan and traveled to Havana earlier this year.
| 345 |
iceweasel Sun, Aug 30, 2009 9:42:00pm |
re: #313 Racer X
Wait, you’re saying it is not so much a moral imperative, as a political one?
Whoodathunk it?
I believe it is both.
| 346 |
realwest Sun, Aug 30, 2009 9:42:46pm |
re: #304 Desert Dog
Hey DD - I screwed up, it’s window virus doctor, not Windows virus defender. The capital W on windows is what tipped me off the first time!
| 348 |
Mich-again Sun, Aug 30, 2009 9:42:54pm |
Technically then, if enough Obama non-fans joined “Organizing for America” they could change the mission of OFA and turn it into “Kill Obama’s Health Insurance Plan Now” and BarackObama.com would still host the content.
Yeah right. Not endorsed by any candidate or candidate’s committee. Har de har har.
| 350 |
Racer X Sun, Aug 30, 2009 9:43:29pm |
Towercam is down again.
Cross your fingers everyone.
| 351 |
MrPaulRevere Sun, Aug 30, 2009 9:44:08pm |
re: #342 realwest
Wow, that one is really bad RW, start here: [Link: removal-tool.blogspot.com…]
| 352 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Aug 30, 2009 9:44:16pm |
re: #342 realwest
Damn, did I say Windows Defender?! I meant “windows virus doctor” and what it does, according to Norton, is indicate that you are infected (in my case) with 8 viruses/trojans and if you only download and install and run their product (somewhere after the download comes the pitch for money by credit card) they’ll clean up those nasty little bugs.
Now, I have something to post:
It’ll take doing, but that should kill the blasted thing.
| 353 |
itellu3times Sun, Aug 30, 2009 9:44:46pm |
re: #283 realwest
Hey my friend - last week a virus or phiser called
“windows virus defender” tried to infect my ‘puter - I did all the usual stuff - cleared temp files, cookies, history etc. shut down then ran a full Norton Internet Security Scan and it picked up that “windows virus defender” and quarantined it.
Well I got it again today - did the same shit I did last week only this time Norton didn’t pick it up at all.
What’s up with that, do you think?
realwest - I didn’t answer when you had that before, but the same day, I saw one of those pop up on my computer when I visited zap2it.com. I’m pretty sure than some malware site got an ad into their googleads circulation. It popped up a message box, then closed the main browser, opened a new window that *pretended* to be scanning my system. Killing the browser killed the page, and I have seen no effects since.
(I have the sites linked recorded at home, but not here)
So, if you get a cleare scan from any major malware package, it may just be a fake. As long as you have at least mildly good security and didn’t actually give it permission to install anything.
Hopefully it’s nothing.
| 354 |
FemNaziBitch Sun, Aug 30, 2009 9:45:24pm |
re: #341 Desert Dog
It works so well on my allergies, I have not taken any meds to combat my hay fever for years…it cleans all of that crap out.
glad to hear you were smarter than me and realized the benefits early on!
| 355 |
Racer X Sun, Aug 30, 2009 9:46:46pm |
re: #343 iceweasel
Don’t forget that McCain promised health care reform too.
When the shit hit the fan McCain suspended his campaign. Not the smartest move. He did state that if he were to be elected he would consider stopping all non-essential spending. Thats how serious the financial crisis is. We need to quit poo-pooing this like it will all be better in a month. It won’t.
We are broke.
| 356 |
Mich-again Sun, Aug 30, 2009 9:46:46pm |
re: #343 iceweasel
If the Dems pass health care reform, — ANY sort — the Republicans will be out of power for a generation.
That is wildly optimistic on your part. There is at least a slight chance they could F* it up even worse than it is now.
| 357 |
realwest Sun, Aug 30, 2009 9:47:26pm |
re: #343 iceweasel
Hi iceweasel - I had asked you somewhere upthread here, if you knew where the number of 48 million Americans who can’t afford health insurance comes from (no particular reason why you should but I figured I ask!).
And would you support the idea that federal employees and union members should be under the same single payor system which you favor?
| 358 |
njdhockeyfan Sun, Aug 30, 2009 9:47:55pm |
Iraq: suspected bomber recently released by US
BAGHDAD — The suicide truck bomber who targeted Iraq’s Foreign Ministry in one of the most deadly attacks this year had recently been freed from U.S. custody, an Iraqi investigator said Sunday, raising fresh concerns that former detainees will return to violence.
I can’t tell you how bad we need to close Gitmo. Really…I can’t.
| 359 |
Desert Dog Sun, Aug 30, 2009 9:48:02pm |
re: #343 iceweasel
Don’t forget that McCain promised health care reform too. We do need it. Obama was elected in large part because he promised it. And some of pushing it through now is about the votes…but there’s also (as always) a larger political strategy here. It’s about 2010 and beyond.
If the Dems pass health care reform, — ANY sort — the Republicans will be out of power for a generation. The Republicans know it. That’s why they’ll do anything to block it — including disseminating outright lies, rather than engaging in a useful discussion about what kind we should have and why.
The Blue Dog Dems have the short-term view of maintaining their personal power and winning re-election. They’re reluctant to side with the Dems as a bloc for that reason. And the actual number of progressives among the elected Dems is very small.
And we must never forget that the resistance to reform is also because both sides are beholden to pharmaceutical companies and insurance companies— hence the deal Obama was cutting with Big Pharma.
I don’t know what kind of plan we’ll wind up with after the bloodbath takes place this fall, so I can’t say yet whether I support it. I support reform, and I support a public option.
But I also am aware that very little of what’s going on is truly about the American people, and as always is a political football where both sides are maneuvering for the best advantage.
I think we should reform healthcare as well. Something so important to every American should be debated and all sides involved should be brought to remake our system even better than it already is. Obama should be commended for bringing this issue front and center.
Where I have trouble with his plan is, first, the hasty slapping together of this plan…if we adopt this plan, it will stick with us for a long, long time. Second, it places too much importance on the “government option”. In spite of what he says, that is nothing but a blind power grab. And finally, I question the timing of this plan. He wants it NOW because he has the votes NOW. It smacks of political expedience…hardly inspiring to me…and to the majority of the citizens of this country as well.
| 360 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Sun, Aug 30, 2009 9:48:09pm |
re: #240 Sharmuta
re: #257 Desert Dog
Glad you liked it. When I first went to school, I thought I wanted to do GR. It is perhaps the most elegant of all of our physical theories. In SR mass=energy.
In GR, energy=curvature. All of the universe becomes a discussion of Reimannian Geometry - and other fun stuff.
Then I discovered that getting a position in GR was equivalent to waiting for someone to die or retire. So I got into strings. And oddly enough from there, Chaos.
There is simply too much stuff to learn and too little time. My biggest regret about not likely being able to live till 200 is all of the stuff I’ll miss out on scientifically.
| 361 |
Desert Dog Sun, Aug 30, 2009 9:49:14pm |
re: #346 realwest
Hey DD - I screwed up, it’s window virus doctor, not Windows virus defender. The capital W on windows is what tipped me off the first time!
Have your tired that Malwarebytes yet? That is a program specifically designed to discover and neutralize that type of garbage.
| 362 |
Killgore Trout Sun, Aug 30, 2009 9:49:39pm |
re: #330 Desert Dog
Both parties do this type of thing. If McCain somehow managed to win by a freak of nature, the GOP would be doing the exact same thing.
When candidates win their people aren’t banished to the wasteland in shame. Those who don’t get presidential appointments still work in politics, often advocating for the policies of the people they helped to elect. It’s the way politics works.
| 363 |
njdhockeyfan Sun, Aug 30, 2009 9:50:04pm |
If they rename ObamaCare to TeddyCare, does that mean we will all get the same healthcare that Ted Kennedy had?
| 364 |
Van Helsing Sun, Aug 30, 2009 9:50:42pm |
re: #356 Mich-again
That is wildly optimistic on your part. There is at least a slight chance they could F* it up even worse than it is now.
If either side tries ‘reform’ on the scale that has been put forth it is GUARANTEED to be f***ed up.
There have been proposals from Rs and Ds that are much narrower in scope and may actually address what we think the problem is (this week): the n millions uninsured.
I still think it’s a job best performed by the states and private charities. I see no advantage to having the federal government involved.
| 365 |
Desert Dog Sun, Aug 30, 2009 9:50:43pm |
re: #362 Killgore Trout
When candidates win their people aren’t banished to the wasteland in shame. Those who don’t get presidential appointments still work in politics, often advocating for the policies of the people they helped to elect. It’s the way politics works.
In this country is sure is. You are exactly right.
| 366 |
FemNaziBitch Sun, Aug 30, 2009 9:50:50pm |
re: #360 LudwigVanQuixote
re: #257 Desert Dog
Glad you liked it. When I first went to school, I thought I wanted to do GR. It is perhaps the most elegant of all of our physical theories. In SR mass=energy.
In GR, energy=curvature. All of the universe becomes a discussion of Reimannian Geometry - and other fun stuff.
Then I discovered that getting a position in GR was equivalent to waiting for someone to die or retire. So I got into strings. And oddly enough from there, Chaos.
There is simply too much stuff to learn and too little time. My biggest regret about not likely being able to live till 200 is all of the stuff I’ll miss out on scientifically.
I regret all the books I won’t get to read and re-read.
| 367 |
wee fury Sun, Aug 30, 2009 9:51:00pm |
re: #363 njdhockeyfan
No. It just means we will all get teddy bears to hug.
| 368 |
Van Helsing Sun, Aug 30, 2009 9:52:14pm |
re: #363 njdhockeyfan
If they rename ObamaCare to TeddyCare, does that mean we will all get the same healthcare that Ted Kennedy had?
No.
| 369 |
FemNaziBitch Sun, Aug 30, 2009 9:52:18pm |
| 370 |
Racer X Sun, Aug 30, 2009 9:53:03pm |
So it all boils down (again) to politics, and not so much about what is best for the American people.
Got it.
I vote no freaking way.
I could care less about death panels or what is actually in the proposal. If the net impact is more debt - or bigger government - forget it. Sorry. Lets try again in a year or two.
| 371 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Aug 30, 2009 9:54:29pm |
re: #370 Racer X
So it all boils down (again) to politics, and not so much about what is best for the American people.
Got it.
I vote no freaking way.
I could care less about death panels or what is actually in the proposal. If the net impact is more debt - or bigger government - forget it. Sorry. Lets try again in a year or two.
Quite concur. Better to get it right, rather than have a partisan Charlie Foxtrot (I don’t curse when ladies are present).
| 373 |
Racer X Sun, Aug 30, 2009 9:55:08pm |
re: #364 Van Helsing
I still think it’s a job best performed by the states and private charities. I see no advantage to having the federal government involved.
See now you’re talkin. Pit states against each other to come up with the best State sponsored health care or supplement. You would bet your ass that Texas would compete with California for jobs. Or Oregon or whoever. Incentive.
| 374 |
iceweasel Sun, Aug 30, 2009 9:56:07pm |
re: #307 realwest
I agree that the Right (whomever that actually is) could learn a lot about organizing from Obama.
But one question I have and haven’t been able to find an answer to is this: where did the number of 48 million Americans who cannot afford to buy healthcare insurancecome from, do you know?
The number is actually closer to 36 million.
The 47 million number comes from the Census numbers, but it includes non-citizens. (Who will not be insured under any version of reform).
It’s also exceedingly difficult to get a breakdown of who they are. The problem isn’t just that some people are without insurance temporarily, or choose to forgo insurance. There are also too many people who are underinsured: denied coverage, or can’t get enough coverage.
This is a good breakdown of some of the basic myths about reform. yes, it’s media matters, but they do provide supporting documentation for these claims.
| 375 |
Opilio Sun, Aug 30, 2009 9:56:42pm |
re: #350 Racer X
Towercam is down again.
Cross your fingers everyone.
I just got an image. Their server is probably just struggling with the unusual load.
| 376 |
Van Helsing Sun, Aug 30, 2009 9:57:05pm |
re: #370 Racer X
So it all boils down (again) to politics, and not so much about what is best for the American people.
Got it.
I vote no freaking way.
I could care less about death panels or what is actually in the proposal. If the net impact is more debt - or bigger government - forget it. Sorry. Lets try again in a year or two.
I believe the term was once ‘Statesman’. Back when it was more about the good of the country than staying in power.
| 377 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Sun, Aug 30, 2009 9:57:19pm |
Y’know, it is not clear to me that taking insurance companies out of the healthcare trough would of necessity be a bad thing.
Germany for instance has private healthcare - at a very high standard and nationalized health insurance. Sweden and Holland do too. These are not exactly third world nations.
| 378 |
Mich-again Sun, Aug 30, 2009 9:57:23pm |
re: #362 Killgore Trout
It’s the way politics works.
I know how politics works. The question here is, in this case, did money flow from Obama’s campaign to the DNC to bankroll “Organizing for America” and then the control of the group given back to Obama’s campaign and his website, or did DNC money go from Howie Dean’s account to Obama’s campaign.
There is no good reason that a DNC committee that is allegedly not endorsed by any candidate or candidate’s committee uses Obama’s campaign website for their home page. If they really wanted to appear independent they would have gotten their own website and not used BarackObama.com. His website hosting their content dissolves the claim that they aren’t endorsed by any candidate.
| 379 |
Dr. Shalit Sun, Aug 30, 2009 9:57:55pm |
“…MIDDLE EAST WATCH…”
Yeah, right! What is there to “Watch?” - Pray Tell?
Judaism - TORAH + Talmud says - “Choose LIFE!”
Islam - Qua’ran + Hadith says - “Choose DEATH”
Pray Tell - what is there left to “Discuss?”
-S-
| 380 |
Desert Dog Sun, Aug 30, 2009 9:57:58pm |
Good night all. I hope you all have a wonderful evening
| 381 |
FemNaziBitch Sun, Aug 30, 2009 9:58:12pm |
re: #370 Racer X
So it all boils down (again) to politics, and not so much about what is best for the American people.
Got it.
I vote no freaking way.
I could care less about death panels or what is actually in the proposal. If the net impact is more debt - or bigger government - forget it. Sorry. Lets try again in a year or two.
Can we just start with tort reform and go back to letting Doctors be Doctors without fear of lawyers?
| 382 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Aug 30, 2009 9:59:02pm |
re: #374 iceweasel
Iceweasel, I respect you greatly, but please don’t recommend stuff from MediaMatters. It’s a George Soros run smear machine run by an admitted liar named David Brock. The site is not to be trusted.
| 383 |
realwest Sun, Aug 30, 2009 9:59:28pm |
re: #359 Desert Dog
I’m gonna try what Dark_Falcon recommended for Norton itself at his #352 and I’ve started and apparently the key is configuring my Norton to scan all files.
If that doesn’t work, I’ll give your method of Malaware bytes!
The configuring Norton to scan all files is where Norton was going if they’d had a tech support guy available - they were gonna search ALL of my files, programs, drives etc. etc.
Thanks!
And Thank you Dark_Falcon.
| 384 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Aug 30, 2009 9:59:42pm |
re: #381 ggt
Can we just start with tort reform and go back to letting Doctors be Doctors without fear of lawyers?
Quite Concur.
| 385 |
Racer X Sun, Aug 30, 2009 10:00:06pm |
re: #374 iceweasel
The number is actually closer to 36 million.
Thats it?
Give each one a thousand dollars - what’s that 36 billion?
Done.
Fine make it ten thousand. 360 billion. Still cheaper than getting the government involved in more bureaucracy.
| 386 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Sun, Aug 30, 2009 10:00:06pm |
I suppose that the hysteria we see is the hysteria of interest groups screaming. I do not think that the congress is doing a bang up job, or that the present bill would be the best per se. For a really good bill to happen, congress would actually need to read it.
But is the idea that you insurance provider has a harder time preying off of your suffering, something to really be upset about in of itself?
This is all bollocks.
| 387 |
iceweasel Sun, Aug 30, 2009 10:01:57pm |
re: #356 Mich-again
That is wildly optimistic on your part. There is at least a slight chance they could F* it up even worse than it is now.
In that case you should support reform, right? Since you think it will be a big win for the Republicans electorally?
The republican leadership certainly seems to acknowledge that any and all reform must be blocked, by any means necessary, no matter what it is, and no matter that they have to blatantly lie to do it. I’d say that’s because they share my assessment (and others) of the situation: a win for Obama here means disaster for them, for years.
You certainly don’t have to accept my assessment of the meta-strategy here, but this is my take, and I’m not alone in it.
BTW, people might find it instructive to compare the political fight over instituting Social Security with what’s going on now.
| 388 |
FemNaziBitch Sun, Aug 30, 2009 10:02:24pm |
re: #377 LudwigVanQuixote
Y’know, it is not clear to me that taking insurance companies out of the healthcare trough would of necessity be a bad thing.
Germany for instance has private healthcare - at a very high standard and nationalized health insurance. Sweden and Holland do too. These are not exactly third world nations.
Insurance companies have the, well, actuaries. What I mean is they “wrote the book” on risk management —pool the money and manage the risk by premium rates. As a for-profit concept, there is accountability and much less corruption. They are regulated by the government and have to account to more than just the IRS.
I think there is a basic problem in the “philosophy” regarding health care in this debate. People don’t want insurance (risk management), what they want is Mom and Dad’s checkbook (a/k/a/ the government) to be open at all times to them. There simply isn’t enough money in the world to do that.
| 389 |
Van Helsing Sun, Aug 30, 2009 10:02:38pm |
re: #373 Racer X
See now you’re talkin. Pit states against each other to come up with the best State sponsored health care or supplement. You would bet your ass that Texas would compete with California for jobs. Or Oregon or whoever. Incentive.
Thanks. I believe that is why the Constitution so carefully enumerated the powers of the federal government; it left the states free to compete against each other and try some things (such as universal healthcare) on a smaller scale.
It’s a pity that the so much power has been placed in the untrustworthy hands of the federal government. They’ve taken on too much, and they just plain suck at most everything.
| 390 |
wee fury Sun, Aug 30, 2009 10:04:04pm |
Uninsured Minnesotans can get Minnesota Care. My cousin, who was unemployed for over a year went on this program. It cost him $4.00 (yes FOUR) dollars a month. During that time he had a hernia surgery, was in the hospital for pneumonia, and had extensive dental work completed.
| 391 |
Dr. Shalit Sun, Aug 30, 2009 10:04:16pm |
re: #381 ggt
Can we just start with tort reform and go back to letting Doctors be Doctors without fear of lawyers?
ggt -
NO SHOT - Former Gov. Dean said it in a rare moment of complete TRUTH.
Bottom line - Don’t “PISS OFF” the trial Lawyers.
Disclaimer - By Education if Not Practice, I AM A LAWYER.
That is all.
-S-
| 392 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Sun, Aug 30, 2009 10:04:18pm |
re: #388 ggt
Insurance companies have the, well, actuaries. What I mean is they “wrote the book” on risk management —pool the money and manage the risk by premium rates. As a for-profit concept, there is accountability and much less corruption. They are regulated by the government and have to account to more than just the IRS.
I think there is a basic problem in the “philosophy” regarding health care in this debate. People don’t want insurance (risk management), what they want is Mom and Dad’s checkbook (a/k/a/ the government) to be open at all times to them. There simply isn’t enough money in the world to do that.
So have the government hire the actuaries and take the for profit part out. Those dollars can now go to treating people.
As for wanting mom and dad’s check book, that’s harsh. Needing surgery to save your life does not qualify as trivial whim spending.
| 393 |
FemNaziBitch Sun, Aug 30, 2009 10:04:33pm |
re: #389 Van Helsing
Thanks. I believe that is why the Constitution so carefully enumerated the powers of the federal government; it left the states free to compete against each other and try some things (such as universal healthcare) on a smaller scale.
It’s a pity that the so much power has been placed in the untrustworthy hands of the federal government. They’ve taken on too much, and they just plain suck at most everything.
To be fair we have an outstanding National Parks System. And the Library of Congress is quite kewl.
| 394 |
FemNaziBitch Sun, Aug 30, 2009 10:04:58pm |
re: #393 ggt
To be fair we have an outstanding National Parks System. And the Library of Congress is quite kewl.
And our Military. Can’t complain about the soldiers.
| 395 |
MrPaulRevere Sun, Aug 30, 2009 10:05:08pm |
re: #370 Racer X
So it all boils down (again) to politics, and not so much about what is best for the American people.
Got it.
I vote no freaking way.
I could care less about death panels or what is actually in the proposal. If the net impact is more debt - or bigger government - forget it. Sorry. Lets try again in a year or two.
At a certain point this financial recklessness has the potential to impact our national security. For that reason alone I am a deficit/debt hawk.
| 396 |
Van Helsing Sun, Aug 30, 2009 10:05:08pm |
re: #388 ggt
I think there is a basic problem in the “philosophy” regarding health care in this debate. People don’t want insurance (risk management), what they want is Mom and Dad’s checkbook (a/k/a/ the government) to be open at all times to them. There simply isn’t enough money in the world to do that.
Mega updings on that. Insurance is supposed to be risk management. Now it has morphed into a pay for everything program.
| 397 |
Racer X Sun, Aug 30, 2009 10:06:17pm |
re: #387 iceweasel
In that case you should support reform, right? Since you think it will be a big win for the Republicans electorally?
The republican leadership certainly seems to acknowledge that any and all reform must be blocked, by any means necessary, no matter what it is, and no matter that they have to blatantly lie to do it. I’d say that’s because they share my assessment (and others) of the situation: a win for Obama here means disaster for them, for years.
You certainly don’t have to accept my assessment of the meta-strategy here, but this is my take, and I’m not alone in it.BTW, people might find it instructive to compare the political fight over instituting Social Security with what’s going on now.
Wow I disagree with you on this one. Say health care reform passes. It will be years before anyone can say it is a success - more likely people will want to see results now. And they won’t be there. This could be a disaster for Obama. Americans are impatient.
| 398 |
Van Helsing Sun, Aug 30, 2009 10:06:33pm |
re: #393 ggt
I did say most everything.
And museums. Some great stuff.
| 399 |
Fenway_Nation Sun, Aug 30, 2009 10:07:23pm |
re: #387 iceweasel
You’ll have to talk slower for this anti-choice dullard.
If this ‘reform’ is so great and wonderful and able to stand up to scrutiny, how come 0bama tried crammed through before congress adjourned?
| 400 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Sun, Aug 30, 2009 10:07:59pm |
re: #398 Van Helsing
I did say most everything.
And museums. Some great stuff.
We did a pretty good job licking the Nazis and going to the moon too.
Come to think of it, our Navy really kicks ass also.
| 401 |
ArmyWife Sun, Aug 30, 2009 10:08:01pm |
I made it! I am in my room in Phoenix. It was a terrible, turbulent flight, but I’m here.
| 402 |
TheMatrix31 Sun, Aug 30, 2009 10:08:18pm |
re: #397 Racer X
Yeah, sometimes I wish to myself to let this healthcare crap pass and have the Democrats and Obama shove it up their asses when the time comes and they all pay for it with their political careers.
| 403 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Sun, Aug 30, 2009 10:08:23pm |
re: #401 ArmyWife
I made it! I am in my room in Phoenix. It was a terrible, turbulent flight, but I’m here.
Glad you are both here and safe.
| 404 |
Dr. Shalit Sun, Aug 30, 2009 10:08:52pm |
re: #388 ggt
ggt -
There is a “nickname” for actuaries, the original statisticians for profit. Same is “CRASH BOOKIES.” - Much like the Late Frank “Lefty” Rosenthal.
-S-
| 405 |
itellu3times Sun, Aug 30, 2009 10:09:17pm |
What is with these fires in Los Angeles?
Seems to me they are not being aggressively fought - is this some effect of California budget problems?
If Mt. Wilson burns, losing transmitters and/or telescope … well, I assume firefighters can “make a stand” there.
You see the two geniuses who tried to ride out the fire in their hot tub?
| 406 |
Racer X Sun, Aug 30, 2009 10:10:13pm |
re: #402 TheMatrix31
Yeah, sometimes I wish to myself to let this healthcare crap pass and have the Democrats and Obama shove it up their asses when the time comes and they all pay for it with their political careers.
Exactly. This could be a huge disaster in the short term. Like anyone has confidence of the government coming in on time and under budget on anything?
| 407 |
ArmyWife Sun, Aug 30, 2009 10:10:22pm |
re: #402 TheMatrix31
Except it is very hard to taketh away and though we may have political careers in ruin, we have this monster to deal with forevermore.
| 408 |
iceweasel Sun, Aug 30, 2009 10:10:23pm |
re: #382 Dark_Falcon
Iceweasel, I respect you greatly, but please don’t recommend stuff from MediaMatters. It’s a George Soros run smear machine run by an admitted liar named David Brock. The site is not to be trusted.
That is false. I recommend that you avoid MMFA for their editorial and opinion columns, but you can’t simply dismiss them. And as for whether they are to be trusted, or whether it is permissible for me to link them here, I can do no better than to quote Charles himself:
Facts are facts. They don’t get cooties on them because they come from Media Matters.
I recommend, with MMFA as for every site and every article, that people factcheck it.
| 409 |
Van Helsing Sun, Aug 30, 2009 10:10:27pm |
re: #401 ArmyWife
I made it! I am in my room in Phoenix. It was a terrible, turbulent flight, but I’m here.
Remember to never, EVER go outside barefoot if the sun is up!
Horrible first year experience I had…
| 410 |
realwest Sun, Aug 30, 2009 10:10:55pm |
re: #374 iceweasel
OK, well I’ve also read some sites - and am having a senior moment here, please forgive me and can’t remember which ones they were - that say the number is much closer to 18 million.
But either way, 36 or 18 (and the true number is VERY PROBABLY NEITHER ONE, LOL!) doesn’t it seem to you that a form of subsidy to those who can’t afford healthcare, together with TORT REFORM (which for me is an absolute must if we are going to have serious health care/insurance reform) would wind up providing health insurance to those who can’t afford it far better than this mish-mash that’s been presented to the House?
And as much as I know that the issue of health insurance reform is a political minefield, don’t y’all think it could have and SHOULD HAVE been written in less than 1,000+ pages? Hell, the United States Constitution itself is only FOUR pages long (not including amendments)!
| 411 |
Racer X Sun, Aug 30, 2009 10:11:39pm |
re: #405 itellu3times
The brush up there is very rugged and has not burned in a few years. L.A. firefighters are the best of the best of the best.
| 412 |
Dr. Shalit Sun, Aug 30, 2009 10:12:41pm |
re: #405 itellu3times
itellu3times -
“I-T-3-T” -
Face the facts - CAH-LIH-FORN-YA - is BROKE, as is my native New Jersey. Take it from there.
-S-
| 413 |
TheMatrix31 Sun, Aug 30, 2009 10:13:20pm |
| 414 |
iceweasel Sun, Aug 30, 2009 10:14:05pm |
re: #399 Fenway_Nation
You’ll have to talk slower for this anti-choice dullard.
If this ‘reform’ is so great and wonderful and able to stand up to scrutiny, how come 0bama tried crammed through before congress adjourned?
Because he knew we were in for a summer of hysteria and hate, with lies being spread daily about what health reform will do, and pressure being put on the Blue Dogs by crazy senior citizens on Medicare saying they dont want ‘gov’t run health care’ (!!) and guntoting freaks turning up at townhalls.
Well, he probably didn’t foresee the guns. I didn’t. But lots of us foresaw an entire summer of misinformation and lies and hysteria being propagated by the GOP.
| 415 |
itellu3times Sun, Aug 30, 2009 10:15:03pm |
re: #411 Racer X
The brush up there is very rugged and has not burned in a few years. L.A. firefighters are the best of the best of the best.
But they are accustomed to the the wind-driven fires that have just one front. I think they’re letting this go because it has a 360-degree perimeter, because there has been no wind. Well, just keep this in mind when they do the after-action report, whenever that happens.
| 416 |
Gus Sun, Aug 30, 2009 10:15:06pm |
re: #410 realwest
I’m not sure if tort reform would be the silver bullet people claim it to be. I do agree that some reform should be done however. One thing to remember is that certain liability insurance providers profit from high tort rewards since it justifies higher premiums.
If any tort reform is done it should be done under the guidance of the SCOTUS. I don’t trust congress to have any part in tort reform on both sides of the aisle.
| 418 |
FemNaziBitch Sun, Aug 30, 2009 10:16:28pm |
re: #392 LudwigVanQuixote
So have the government hire the actuaries and take the for profit part out. Those dollars can now go to treating people.
As for wanting mom and dad’s check book, that’s harsh. Needing surgery to save your life does not qualify as trivial whim spending.
Well, I don’t think I’m being too harsh. “Health Care”, along with food, clothing and shelter have been the basics of man’s survival. Somehow, the idea that one has to work or be responsible for one’s own survival seems to have missed some people.
I also believe the costs of care would be much lower if the lawyers were curtailed. It’s not just the cost of malpractice insurance but the constant fear factor that causes medical professionals to waste so much of the time and resources second guessing and playing CYA.
I have no faith that the profits not taken by the government will go to treating people. They will get eaten by the machine —and the whole process will end-up costing more than it does now. Without profit, there is no real-accountability. Money makes things real. That is why I believe Capitalism is the best system we have at present.
I do not believe a single-payer system will lower costs or increase efficiency. A 2-billion payer system would do more in that regard. We didn’t have these problems with the majority of people had 80/20 Major Medical. Once HMO got involved, it all started going bad (IMHO). The more the actual invoice is removed from the patient and the more hands involved in it’s processing, the higher the cost. There are simply too many hands in the pie.
| 419 |
realwest Sun, Aug 30, 2009 10:16:39pm |
re: #388 ggt
Hi ggt! Good comment. Especially this one:
“Insurance companies have the, well, actuaries. What I mean is they “wrote the book” on risk management —pool the money and manage the risk by premium rates. As a for-profit concept, there is accountability and much less corruption. They are regulated by the government and have to account to more than just the IRS.” [emphasis added, realwest] Could also be supplemented (at least in NY state, with the statement that the State Insurance Commissioner sets the rates and fees that ALL insurance companies may charge to people residing in New York State). Even Title Insurance is so regulated.
| 420 |
ArmyWife Sun, Aug 30, 2009 10:16:59pm |
re: #410 realwest
We have state run insurance programs for those who can’t afford regular care - many aimed right at children. We do need tort reform, but that is just a part of the issue. I stand firm in my belief that if insurance wasn’t tied to employment, and we purchased it much like we do auto, homeowners or renters insurance, we would see lower rates and different levels of coverage post haste. If we didn’t have silly regulations not allowing the purchase of insurance from different states, we’d see competition increasing. I have NO problem with insurance companies making money - I’m a capitalist. I do think we need to restructure the business model a bit.
| 421 |
MrPaulRevere Sun, Aug 30, 2009 10:17:26pm |
re: #416 Gus 802
“I’m not sure if tort reform would be the silver bullet people claim it to be.” I agree emphatically, tort reform has been oversold. But I still support it, its a piece of the puzzle, if you will.
| 422 |
iceweasel Sun, Aug 30, 2009 10:18:10pm |
re: #410 realwest
Hey real—
Yeah, I’ve heard the 18 million figure too— Hatch is one of those pushing it. Politifact dissects that claim here.
Here’s their bottom line:
So we find that the individual numbers that Hatch uses are accurate or in the ballpark. Our concerns are with the methodology used to come up with his bottom line. It relies on a hodgepodge of different years and sources and leaves open the possibility that some people are double- or triple-counted. It would not pass muster in an undergraduate statistics class. So we find his statement is Half True.
I agree with you on tort reform. Ridiculous that it’s off the table, IMO.
| 423 |
Gus Sun, Aug 30, 2009 10:18:19pm |
re: #421 MrPaulRevere
“I’m not sure if tort reform would be the silver bullet people claim it to be.” I agree emphatically, tort reform has been oversold. But I still support it, its a piece of the puzzle, if you will.
Agreed. Lately I’ve been seeing too many single point resolutions which never seem to work.
| 424 |
ArmyWife Sun, Aug 30, 2009 10:18:25pm |
re: #414 iceweasel
Wasn’t one of those gun toters a democrat? Just sayin’
| 425 |
Racer X Sun, Aug 30, 2009 10:18:37pm |
re: #414 iceweasel
Because he knew we were in for a summer of hysteria and hate, with lies being spread daily about what health reform will do, and pressure being put on the Blue Dogs by crazy senior citizens on Medicare saying they dont want ‘gov’t run health care’ (!!) and guntoting freaks turning up at townhalls.
Well, he probably didn’t foresee the guns. I didn’t. But lots of us foresaw an entire summer of misinformation and lies and hysteria being propagated by the GOP.
Yikes!
You really believe all that?
I give the average American more credit. I think most people understand the dire straits the country is in financially.
We are broke.
| 426 |
realwest Sun, Aug 30, 2009 10:18:42pm |
re: #390 wee fury Huh. And here I was thinking pretty nasty things about Minnessotans for electing Al Franken!
Thanks for that.
| 427 |
Killgore Trout Sun, Aug 30, 2009 10:18:46pm |
re: #378 Mich-again
His website hosting their content dissolves the claim that they aren’t endorsed by any candidate.
Yes, it’s very silly. The DNC probably had to buy to for a dollar to make it official. They are advocating for Obama’s policies. They have a bus, a web page and bumper stickers. None of this is illegal or immoral.
| 428 |
Fenway_Nation Sun, Aug 30, 2009 10:20:10pm |
re: #414 iceweasel
So…wait…I’m supposed to predicate everything on the assumption that Americans with questions or objections to this pricey clusterfuck refrom are brainwashed dupes of the vast right-wing consipracy or GOP rent-a-mobs while CHarlie Gibbs and the 0bama White House are the only honest brokers in all of this?
/Kool-Aid’s no substitute for the pineapple juice & Kamchatka I’m enjoying right now
| 429 |
FemNaziBitch Sun, Aug 30, 2009 10:20:28pm |
re: #419 realwest
Hi ggt! Good comment. Especially this one:
“Insurance companies have the, well, actuaries. What I mean is they “wrote the book” on risk management —pool the money and manage the risk by premium rates. As a for-profit concept, there is accountability and much less corruption. They are regulated by the government and have to account to more than just the IRS.” [emphasis added, realwest] Could also be supplemented (at least in NY state, with the statement that the State Insurance Commissioner sets the rates and fees that ALL insurance companies may charge to people residing in New York State). Even Title Insurance is so regulated.
thanks!
They ALSO have to account to their stockholders and if they are a mutual company —their policyholders.
| 430 |
Racer X Sun, Aug 30, 2009 10:20:32pm |
re: #416 Gus 802
One thing to remember is that certain liability insurance providers profit from high tort rewards since it justifies higher premiums.
I’m having a hard time wrapping my head around this one.
| 431 |
ArmyWife Sun, Aug 30, 2009 10:20:43pm |
re: #425 Racer X
Further more, where is this type of medicine working? Show me a model where socialized medicine works, and we can talk. Not you, I’m just adding on to your comments.
| 432 |
Van Helsing Sun, Aug 30, 2009 10:20:51pm |
re: #414 iceweasel
Because he knew we were in for a summer of hysteria and hate, with lies being spread daily about what health reform will do, and pressure being put on the Blue Dogs by crazy senior citizens on Medicare saying they dont want ‘gov’t run health care’ (!!) and guntoting freaks turning up at townhalls.
Well, he probably didn’t foresee the guns. I didn’t. But lots of us foresaw an entire summer of misinformation and lies and hysteria being propagated by the GOP.
Damn, he’s prescient, too?
If he’s so damn smart then perhaps he could have figured out that trying to pushing a 1000 pages of ambiguous crap through congress and down the throats of the American people might just possibly meet a little resistance? Especially after getting more or less a pass on the ‘stimulus’ plan?
| 433 |
Gus Sun, Aug 30, 2009 10:21:30pm |
re: #421 MrPaulRevere
“I’m not sure if tort reform would be the silver bullet people claim it to be.” I agree emphatically, tort reform has been oversold. But I still support it, its a piece of the puzzle, if you will.
And on solutions I’m sure that health insurers are taxed at a high rate. Lowering corporate taxes is one way to alleviate financial burden on the private sector which eventually effects us. Perhaps adding tax incentives for health care goals. One of which is the pre-existing conditions debate. More cooperation from all sides.
| 434 |
Jimmah Sun, Aug 30, 2009 10:22:34pm |
| 435 |
realwest Sun, Aug 30, 2009 10:22:34pm |
re: #420 ArmyWife
Well I think your comment is spot on when you say:
“I stand firm in my belief that if insurance wasn’t tied to employment, and we purchased it much like we do auto, homeowners or renters insurance, we would see lower rates and different levels of coverage post haste. If we didn’t have silly regulations not allowing the purchase of insurance from different states, we’d see competition increasing.” Especially if we could bring in Tort Reform as well.
| 436 |
FemNaziBitch Sun, Aug 30, 2009 10:22:39pm |
re: #420 ArmyWife
We have state run insurance programs for those who can’t afford regular care - many aimed right at children. We do need tort reform, but that is just a part of the issue. I stand firm in my belief that if insurance wasn’t tied to employment, and we purchased it much like we do auto, homeowners or renters insurance, we would see lower rates and different levels of coverage post haste. If we didn’t have silly regulations not allowing the purchase of insurance from different states, we’d see competition increasing. I have NO problem with insurance companies making money - I’m a capitalist. I do think we need to restructure the business model a bit.
Excellent observation! Tying insurance to employment is socialistic (IMHO).
I understand group rates—higher volume, lower price—but I think you are right in thinking that can be rethought.
| 437 |
iceweasel Sun, Aug 30, 2009 10:22:59pm |
re: #397 Racer X
Wow I disagree with you on this one. Say health care reform passes. It will be years before anyone can say it is a success - more likely people will want to see results now. And they won’t be there. This could be a disaster for Obama. Americans are impatient.
But the immediate results people will see, if it passes, are that they now have insurance whereas before they did not. That’s why it will translate in votes.
As for whether the program overall is a success, that will take years to know.
| 438 |
Van Helsing Sun, Aug 30, 2009 10:23:12pm |
re: #428 Fenway_Nation
So…wait…I’m supposed to predicate everything on the assumption that Americans with questions or objections to this pricey clusterfuck
refromare brainwashed dupes of the vast right-wing consipracy or GOP rent-a-mobs while CHarlie Gibbs and the 0bama White House are the only honest brokers in all of this?/Kool-Aid’s no substitute for the pineapple juice & Kamchatka I’m enjoying right now
Your strike-through key musta been stuck. I fixed it for you.
| 439 |
wee fury Sun, Aug 30, 2009 10:23:32pm |
re: #426 realwest
Huh. And here I was thinking pretty nasty things about Minnessotans for electing Al Franken!
Thanks for that.
Well, they do have a looney habit of electing … oddities. 8-D
| 440 |
FemNaziBitch Sun, Aug 30, 2009 10:24:40pm |
re: #437 iceweasel
But the immediate results people will see, if it passes, are that they now have insurance whereas before they did not. That’s why it will translate in votes.
As for whether the program overall is a success, that will take years to know.
We have a winner!!!
it’s all about votes!
| 441 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Aug 30, 2009 10:24:57pm |
re: #420 ArmyWife
We have state run insurance programs for those who can’t afford regular care - many aimed right at children. We do need tort reform, but that is just a part of the issue. I stand firm in my belief that if insurance wasn’t tied to employment, and we purchased it much like we do auto, homeowners or renters insurance, we would see lower rates and different levels of coverage post haste. If we didn’t have silly regulations not allowing the purchase of insurance from different states, we’d see competition increasing. I have NO problem with insurance companies making money - I’m a capitalist. I do think we need to restructure the business model a bit.
Agreed. Would tax credits towards the purchase of insurance be a good idea in your opinion.
| 442 |
capitalist piglet Sun, Aug 30, 2009 10:25:35pm |
re: #428 Fenway_Nation
So…wait…I’m supposed to predicate everything on the assumption that Americans with questions or objections to this
priceyclusterfuckrefrom are brainwashed dupes of the vast right-wing consipracy or GOP rent-a-mobs while CHarlie Gibbs and the 0bama White House are the only honest brokers in all of this?/Kool-Aid’s no substitute for the pineapple juice & Kamchatka I’m enjoying right now
Oh no, Fenway. Those people are “crazy” “liars” and “freaks”, who have no right to be concerned, and even less right to speak up and object, see?
And yes, Democrats are the only honest brokers here. That part you got right.
/
| 443 |
Fenway_Nation Sun, Aug 30, 2009 10:25:39pm |
re: #432 Van Helsing
Damn, he’s prescient, too?
If he’s so damn smart then perhaps he could have figured out that trying to pushing a 1000 pages of ambiguous crap through congress and down the throats of the American people might just possibly meet a little resistance? Especially after getting more or less a pass on the ‘stimulus’ plan?
Which 1000+ page magnum opus are you referring to? Cap and Trade? Healthcare? Card Check? Another stimulus?
I thought this was the sort of shit we didn’t have to worry about with such and honest and open White House now…//
| 444 |
Gus Sun, Aug 30, 2009 10:26:00pm |
re: #430 Racer X
I’m having a hard time wrapping my head around this one.
Oh, never mind. Sometimes I ramble.
| 446 |
iceweasel Sun, Aug 30, 2009 10:27:04pm |
re: #428 Fenway_Nation
So…wait…I’m supposed to predicate everything on the assumption that Americans with questions or objections to this
priceyclusterfuckrefrom are brainwashed dupes of the vast right-wing consipracy or GOP rent-a-mobs while CHarlie Gibbs and the 0bama White House are the only honest brokers in all of this?
Of course not, and that’s not what I said. But how much of the public discourse on this has been serious? How much of it has been devoted to, say, debating the merits of a public option versus a co-op option, and whether either is a good idea?
Almost none of it. Instead we get lies about a VA Death Book, Death Panels, Killing Grandma, and the claim that it’s socialism or nationalising the system. And that’s the August craziness at work…
Really, there’s a reason why we have that ‘Questions and Answers on Health Care” at the top — it’s because there’s so much confusion about what’s being proposed (and the messaging isn’t coherent or consistent).
| 447 |
Mad Prophet Ludwig Sun, Aug 30, 2009 10:27:50pm |
re: #418 ggt
You deserve a much longer response to that post, but I am getting called to bed. Next time I hope…
All lizards stay scaly and whatever else needed to get your bad green groove on!
Lady calls.
| 448 |
ArmyWife Sun, Aug 30, 2009 10:28:04pm |
re: #441 Dark_Falcon
I think I could be convinced of that, but I’m not sold yet. Why wouldn’t we lower income taxes overall instead?
| 449 |
iceweasel Sun, Aug 30, 2009 10:28:17pm |
re: #442 capitalist piglet
Oh no, Fenway. Those people are “crazy” “liars” and “freaks”, who have no right to be concerned, and even less right to speak up and object, see?
And yes, Democrats are the only honest brokers here. That part you got right.
/
No one has suggested anything remotely like that.
| 450 |
Gus Sun, Aug 30, 2009 10:28:31pm |
re: #445 MrPaulRevere
Actually it made sense Gus.
Thanks. I know it does with liability. When they scare you with “oh but they might sue you for millions these days” you increase your liability coverage and end up paying higher premiums.
| 451 |
Racer X Sun, Aug 30, 2009 10:28:45pm |
re: #437 iceweasel
But the immediate results people will see, if it passes, are that they now have insurance whereas before they did not. That’s why it will translate in votes.
As for whether the program overall is a success, that will take years to know.
Immediate? Really? Immediately - as in weeks? I don’t see anything for months after it passes. It may take years to build the infrastructure to process 46 38 22 million people. That is a lifetime for people used to having things NOW!
I can see it now in 2010:
“That rat bastard promised me health care and they still can’t figure out how to sign everyone up. I aint votin for him!”
Incumbent = Out
| 452 |
FemNaziBitch Sun, Aug 30, 2009 10:28:50pm |
How many lawyers do Insurance companies, Hospitals and Pharmaceutical companies have to keep on staff? How many computer systems and employees to doctors and hospitals have to hire to deal with the legal paranoia?
I’m thinking that the costs of medical care and insurance could be greatly reduced if we curtail the lawyer factor.
| 453 |
astronmr20 Sun, Aug 30, 2009 10:28:53pm |
In a discussion with some of my moonbat friends on the web.
They are in a frenzy over the accusations against Olmert’s number 2, Shaul Mofaz. Supposedly he was calling for specific “body counts” of Palestianins during cast lead.
Wondering if anyone in the know can say much about it?
Link:
[Link: www.independent.co.uk…]
| 454 |
Fenway_Nation Sun, Aug 30, 2009 10:29:08pm |
| 455 |
Van Helsing Sun, Aug 30, 2009 10:29:24pm |
re: #443 Fenway_Nation
Which 1000+ page magnum opus are you referring to? Cap and Trade? Healthcare? Card Check? Another stimulus?
Well, I was referring to healthcare but you just reminded me I need to bless my senators with my wisdom and drop them a few notes about the cap & trade scam, er, scheme.
Ah f*** it. SCAM! It’s a damn SCAM that’ll do NOTHING to cut CO2 emissions and a lot to raise money for the government in a non-tax tax.
Guess it depends on what the meaning of tax is…
| 456 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Aug 30, 2009 10:29:30pm |
re: #448 ArmyWife
I think I could be convinced of that, but I’m not sold yet. Why wouldn’t we lower income taxes overall instead?
I’d prefer that as well. The problem is, again, political. Tax credits are an easier sell than a tax cut.
| 457 |
iceweasel Sun, Aug 30, 2009 10:30:14pm |
re: #432 Van Helsing
Damn, he’s prescient, too?
You don’t have to believe me. Someone asked why the rush before the adjournment. I told them what I thought, which is what I thought at the time, and many other commentators in the lib/prog sphere predicted as well.
| 458 |
Gus Sun, Aug 30, 2009 10:30:26pm |
re: #454 Fenway_Nation
So did Ogden nash…
/
I’m a rambling man! I don’t ramble to anywhere in particular but my mouth just moves. Or is that my fingers to type?
//
| 459 |
astronmr20 Sun, Aug 30, 2009 10:30:42pm |
re: #452 ggt
How many lawyers do Insurance companies, Hospitals and Pharmaceutical companies have to keep on staff? How many computer systems and employees to doctors and hospitals have to hire to deal with the legal paranoia?
I’m thinking that the costs of medical care and insurance could be greatly reduced if we curtail the lawyer factor.
That’s the one component they left out of this “reform” bill. The dems are too well-paid by the leeches that stand to benefit from such outrageous lawsuits.
| 460 |
Syrah Sun, Aug 30, 2009 10:32:14pm |
re: #455 Van Helsing
Well, I was referring to healthcare but you just reminded me I need to bless my senators with my wisdom and drop them a few notes about the cap & trade scam, er, scheme.
Ah f*** it. SCAM! It’s a damn SCAM that’ll do NOTHING to cut CO2 emissions and a lot to raise money for the government in a non-tax tax.Guess it depends on what the meaning of tax is…
Taxing Authority==Power over others.
Control and power. As it always has been, as it always will be.
| 461 |
iceweasel Sun, Aug 30, 2009 10:32:46pm |
re: #424 ArmyWife
Wasn’t one of those gun toters a democrat? Just sayin’
Hey AW, how are you?
Beats me. Probably. The crazy is spread liberally (heh) around all party affiliations.
| 462 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Aug 30, 2009 10:32:55pm |
re: #18 MJ
This is a very good site which monitors the BBC:
[Link: www.biased-bbc.blogspot.com…]
Plus, locally, we have a blog which monitors the Berkeley Daily Planet.
The Berkeley Daily Planet is one of those Berkeley things that actually lives up to the rest of the world’s preconceived notions about Berkeley.
And they got their own watchdog site.
| 463 |
ArmyWife Sun, Aug 30, 2009 10:32:56pm |
re: #446 iceweasel
This is somewhat anecdotal, but when the VA death lie book came out the first time and was quashed, there was a lot of concern raised by the very people it was given too (as reported to me by my medic husband who works a lot with Veterans both on and off the clock). Some quotes given by the medical staff were a bit out there, according to the upset vets. Perhaps it was poor training on those provider’s’ part, but we shouldn’t dismiss people’s reaction to it as whole heartedly stupid.
| 464 |
FemNaziBitch Sun, Aug 30, 2009 10:33:02pm |
re: #457 iceweasel
You don’t have to believe me. Someone asked why the rush before the adjournment. I told them what I thought, which is what I thought at the time, and many other commentators in the lib/prog sphere predicted as well.
Rushing to vote before adjournment creates drama. It’s all politics. It’s about emotion and swaying voters —not with facts, but with feeling!
Sadly, it works.
| 465 |
pink freud Sun, Aug 30, 2009 10:33:12pm |
re: #422 iceweasel
Politifact is a highly partisan (liberal) organization run by the St. Petersburg Times, a notoriously left-leaning and agenda-driven publication.
A little history:
Newsmen recall the day JFK was assassinated
“”The St. Petersburg Times newsroom was in controlled pandemonium,” writes Martin Dyckman. “I was standing at the teletype when the first flash came in that a suspected Marxist, Lee Harvey Oswald, was being held in connection with the shooting.Times Publisher Nelson Poynter was standing nearby when I announced that. His face fell. ‘Oh, no,’ he said. ‘I was hoping it would be a right-winger.’”
| 466 |
Van Helsing Sun, Aug 30, 2009 10:33:36pm |
re: #457 iceweasel
You don’t have to believe me. Someone asked why the rush before the adjournment. I told them what I thought, which is what I thought at the time, and many other commentators in the lib/prog sphere predicted as well.
Oh, I believe you. I just think that the thought process was more along the lines of “I think this is just about the limit that people are going take of having HUGE bills go through congress unread. So if it doesn’t pass real quick and somebody actually starts to READ it we are screwed!”
| 467 |
Fenway_Nation Sun, Aug 30, 2009 10:33:46pm |
re: #446 iceweasel
Ask me if I give a shit…
0bama’s stimulus was supposed to keep unemployment under 8%…where are we now?
But hey! Let’s let these same geniuses who authorized the $787 billion in kickbacks disguised as economic aid do stuff with our healthcare! I’m sure that will turn out much better…
//
| 468 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Aug 30, 2009 10:33:52pm |
re: #446 iceweasel
Of course not, and that’s not what I said. But how much of the public discourse on this has been serious? How much of it has been devoted to, say, debating the merits of a public option versus a co-op option, and whether either is a good idea?
Almost none of it. Instead we get lies about a VA Death Book, Death Panels, Killing Grandma, and the claim that it’s socialism or nationalising the system. And that’s the August craziness at work…
Really, there’s a reason why we have that ‘Questions and Answers on Health Care” at the top — it’s because there’s so much confusion about what’s being proposed (and the messaging isn’t coherent or consistent).
Coherence and consistency do not fill the town square, iceweasel. To win in politics you need to get people fired up, and that often requires scaring them regarding the other side. Obama decided not to listen, so conservatives have resolved to make him listen.
| 469 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Aug 30, 2009 10:34:08pm |
re: #20 yochanan
anyone knew were i can get a x-large glue trap
Glue traps are inhumane. And Farfour has already been beaten to death once by Shin Bet. Or whatever org that black guy in the sunglasses worked for.
| 470 |
FemNaziBitch Sun, Aug 30, 2009 10:34:45pm |
re: #469 SanFranciscoZionist
Glue traps are inhumane. And Farfour has already been beaten to death once by Shin Bet. Or whatever org that black guy in the sunglasses worked for.
Ok, I’ll bite, why are glue traps inhumane?
| 471 |
iceweasel Sun, Aug 30, 2009 10:34:52pm |
re: #434 Jimmah
Hey Ludwig, thought you might like this:
hat tip : iceweasel
Awww… ;)
More Dan le Sac!
| 472 |
FemNaziBitch Sun, Aug 30, 2009 10:35:06pm |
I gotta get something to eat folks. bbiab
| 473 |
ArmyWife Sun, Aug 30, 2009 10:36:20pm |
re: #461 iceweasel
Ha! Yes, crazy is not party specific. Just depends on what you are looking for right now!
I’m good, thank you for asking. I hope you are well, too!
| 475 |
Gus Sun, Aug 30, 2009 10:37:26pm |
I don’t get it. 8 years after coming to this country my father had a company car and Dennison was paying for Blue Cross coverage for all 5 of our family. First house was like 20,000 dollars on Long Island and the gas was cheap.
| 476 |
MrPaulRevere Sun, Aug 30, 2009 10:39:12pm |
re: #450 Gus 802
Another great reason for tort reform is that people will quit thinking a dog bite or a fender bender will lead to a big pay day. A neighbor was sued for $10,000 over a lousy dog bite, and this was after he offered to pay all expenses. Insanity like that doesn’t happen in Europe.
| 477 |
ArmyWife Sun, Aug 30, 2009 10:39:19pm |
re: #475 Gus 802
Blue cross is something you should look at when the word non-profit co-op is thrown around. They started out as non-profit and began to quickly lose their shorts. They changed to a profit based model to fix it.
| 478 |
iceweasel Sun, Aug 30, 2009 10:39:19pm |
re: #465 pink freud
Politifact is a highly partisan (liberal) organization run by the St. Petersburg Times, a notoriously left-leaning and agenda-driven publication.
A little history:
Newsmen recall the day JFK was assassinated“”The St. Petersburg Times newsroom was in controlled pandemonium,” writes Martin Dyckman. “I was standing at the teletype when the first flash came in that a suspected Marxist, Lee Harvey Oswald, was being held in connection with the shooting.Times Publisher Nelson Poynter was standing nearby when I announced that. His face fell. ‘Oh, no,’ he said. ‘I was hoping it would be a right-winger.’”
So, you believe that a comment made over 40 years ago is more important, than, say, winning the Pulitzer Prize this year?
Pathetic.
BTW, people here OUGHT to like politifact. Far from being partisan, they keep a running total of the campaign promises Obama breaks or fails to keep. ;)
Behold the Obameter!
| 479 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Aug 30, 2009 10:39:55pm |
re: #470 ggt
Ok, I’ll bite, why are glue traps inhumane?
Because the mouse gets stuck and then lies there until it dies of starvation or dehydration. Much more humane to use a trap that kills quickly.
| 480 |
pink freud Sun, Aug 30, 2009 10:40:08pm |
re: #478 iceweasel
So, you believe that a comment made over 40 years ago is more important, than, say, winning the Pulitzer Prize this year?
Pathetic.
BTW, people here OUGHT to like politifact. Far from being partisan, they keep a running total of the campaign promises Obama breaks or fails to keep. ;)
Behold the Obameter!
Politifact is crap.
| 481 |
capitalist piglet Sun, Aug 30, 2009 10:41:49pm |
re: #449 iceweasel
No one has suggested anything remotely like that.
re: #414 iceweasel
Because he knew we were in for a summer of hysteria and hate, with lies being spread daily about what health reform will do, and pressure being put on the Blue Dogs by crazy senior citizens on Medicare saying they dont want ‘gov’t run health care’ (!!) and guntoting freaks turning up at townhalls.
Well, he probably didn’t foresee the guns. I didn’t. But lots of us foresaw an entire summer of misinformation and lies and hysteria being propagated by the GOP.
No, of course not.
| 482 |
FemNaziBitch Sun, Aug 30, 2009 10:42:33pm |
re: #479 Dark_Falcon
Because the mouse gets stuck and then lies there until it dies of starvation or dehydration. Much more humane to use a trap that kills quickly.
teeny tiny mouse-brain-sized bullets?
| 483 |
Gus Sun, Aug 30, 2009 10:42:38pm |
re: #476 MrPaulRevere
Another great reason for tort reform is that people will quit thinking a dog bite or a fender bender will lead to a big pay day. A neighbor was sued for $10,000 over a lousy dog bite, and this was after he offered to pay all expenses. Insanity like that doesn’t happen in Europe.
Yep. But the trial attorney sector is a monster. The infrastructure if you will that’s set up to keep them afloat is equally monstrous. The majority of congress is made of attorneys and they stick together like glue.
| 484 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Aug 30, 2009 10:43:37pm |
re: #478 iceweasel
So, you believe that a comment made over 40 years ago is more important, than, say, winning the Pulitzer Prize this year?
Pathetic.
BTW, people here OUGHT to like politifact. Far from being partisan, they keep a running total of the campaign promises Obama breaks or fails to keep. ;)
Behold the Obameter!
The Pulitzer Prize has itself become politicized, IW. Moreover, I don’t trust any site run by a nasty far-left publication. Such organizations are not be trusted.
| 485 |
ArmyWife Sun, Aug 30, 2009 10:43:57pm |
re: #476 MrPaulRevere
Different insanity happens in Europe. Take yer pick!
| 486 |
Gus Sun, Aug 30, 2009 10:44:12pm |
re: #477 ArmyWife
Blue cross is something you should look at when the word non-profit co-op is thrown around. They started out as non-profit and began to quickly lose their shorts. They changed to a profit based model to fix it.
What year was that?
| 487 |
ArmyWife Sun, Aug 30, 2009 10:44:57pm |
re: #478 iceweasel
Sorry, I can’t get excited over the Pulitzer. It appears to me to have gone the way of the Nobel Peace Prize.
| 488 |
BryanS Sun, Aug 30, 2009 10:45:08pm |
re: #479 Dark_Falcon
Could we use glue traps on terrorist then? Since it’s torture, and it takes a long time, we would have the benefit of verifying whether their information given under duress was accurate—if not, they stay in the trap.
| 489 |
Racer X Sun, Aug 30, 2009 10:45:39pm |
| 490 |
ArmyWife Sun, Aug 30, 2009 10:45:42pm |
re: #486 Gus 802
We can google, or you can wait until I get back to my real office on Friday and I can pull the history for you. How curious is you, friend? ;)
| 491 |
FemNaziBitch Sun, Aug 30, 2009 10:45:42pm |
tummy is full, time to read and them sleep.
weet dreams all!
| 492 |
iceweasel Sun, Aug 30, 2009 10:45:43pm |
re: #484 Dark_Falcon
The Pulitzer Prize has itself become politicized, IW. Moreover, I don’t trust any site run by a nasty far-left publication. Such organizations are not be trusted.
I suggest you look at them and evaluate each claim individually on its merits, and factcheck, as we all should do with everything in any case.
They typically do provide backup links. In those cases I trust them.
| 493 |
MrPaulRevere Sun, Aug 30, 2009 10:45:50pm |
re: #483 Gus 802
You bet, I was having a moment of silly idealism there. We are a nation of the lawyers, for the lawyers and by the lawyers and have been for quite some time.
| 494 |
Jimmah Sun, Aug 30, 2009 10:46:05pm |
re: #480 pink freud
Politifact is crap.
Facts don’t get cooties because of where they’re from.
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com…]
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com…]
| 495 |
BryanS Sun, Aug 30, 2009 10:46:12pm |
re: #483 Gus 802
Yep. But the trial attorney sector is a monster. The infrastructure if you will that’s set up to keep them afloat is equally monstrous. The majority of congress is made of attorneys and they stick together like glue.
glue traps on congress then?
| 496 |
Gus Sun, Aug 30, 2009 10:46:16pm |
re: #487 ArmyWife
Sorry, I can’t get excited over the Pulitzer. It appears to me to have gone the way of the Nobel Peace Prize.
Or any Nobel prize.
Hence, Krugmann.
| 497 |
realwest Sun, Aug 30, 2009 10:46:25pm |
Well y’all I do have to go now and try to fix that stupid windows virus doctor (or maybe wait until tomorrow and let Norton’s techs fix it; that comes with the premium I paid for Norton, after all!).
But I just want to say a few things about healthcare reform or healthcare insurance reform.
First of all, the costs of delivery of health services MUST be reduced and most easily could be reduced with Tort Reform.
Secondly, the Government is ALREADY running health insurance plans - Medicare is the one (other than the VA which is a total fucking disgrace) I’m most familiar with. I currently pay 3.5 times the amount for medical attention, tests, and drugs than I did when I was on private healthcare insurance. Indeed, I’m currently paying 50% more than what I was paying private insurance that had been COBRA’d. And my health care insurance, plain and with COBRA premium was NOT based upon my having cancer. Hell, even the co-pays are more under Medicare and the doctors, labs and hospitals (if they agree to take just medicare - at 100% of what Medicare allows) all are compensated way below their normal charges, costs and fees by Medicare. And, to make matters worse, unless you have a dire medical situation it WILL take you longer to see a specialist under Medicare than under private medical insurance. And now, Social Security benefiaries (including Social Security Disablilty Insurance receipients) will NOT for the first time EVER, not receive a Cost of Living Allowance, but Medicare premiums are going up substantially.The Government has shown, just with Medicare, how truly unresponsive the Government is to patients, doctors, hospitals, lab and x-ray facilities and has increased costs itself by requiring doctors and hospitals to have administrative personnel JUST TO PROCESS THE PAPERWORK the GOVERNMENT REQUIRES.
And even at that, the Government is being ripped off because doctors are ordering tests, labs and x-rays EVEN WHEN THE DOCTOR doesn’t believe they are necessary except to protect him or herself, or the hospital, from malpractice suits (“Why docotor, why didn’t you have the patient get an MRI on that cut finger he had?”).
Health care is TOO important to society and to evrey single one of us (who is an American or at least legally here in America) to be left to the Government to run it. The mere fact that Senators, members of the House of Representatives and their staffs and certain union members WILL BE EXCEMPT from the provisions of this bill is a major tell that THEY don’t think the medical care will be worth a damn under this “reform” either.
| 498 |
pink freud Sun, Aug 30, 2009 10:46:42pm |
re: #492 iceweasel
I suggest you look at them and evaluate each claim individually on its merits, and factcheck, as we all should do with everything in any case.
They typically do provide backup links. In those cases I trust them.
…but watch out for the cooties, DF.
| 499 |
iceweasel Sun, Aug 30, 2009 10:46:56pm |
re: #489 Racer X
Thanks for that link!
Compared to the promises kept, the promises broken are pretty major. IMHO.
Yup. That’s why it’s ridiculous to claim they’re left-leaning or in the tank for Obama. They’re a major resource for the left for criticising Obama.
Factcheck is a good site too.
| 500 |
Racer X Sun, Aug 30, 2009 10:47:12pm |
re: #494 Jimmah
Facts don’t get cooties because of where they’re from.
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com…]
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com…]
Unless they’re from Fox news.
| 501 |
ArmyWife Sun, Aug 30, 2009 10:47:40pm |
re: #493 MrPaulRevere
We don’t need to bash all lawyers. They are not the devil incarnate. We need to really look at the root cause of the evil - lack of responsbility and accountability for our own actions as a culture. I’ll end my rant there, ‘cause it goes on for hours.
| 502 |
realwest Sun, Aug 30, 2009 10:48:13pm |
Well good night you all - I really need to get to sleep.
I hope you have a great evening/early morning and that I get the chance to see you all down the road.
Good night, all.
| 503 |
Gus Sun, Aug 30, 2009 10:48:24pm |
re: #493 MrPaulRevere
You bet, I was having a moment of silly idealism there. We are a nation of the lawyers, for the lawyers and by the lawyers and have been for quite some time.
Sad but true. And it’s also made up of millionaires. Not self made millionaires mind you but those that come from legacy families (trust funders), those that married in, etc. Nothing wrong with millionaires but I prefer mine to be “self made.”
| 506 |
ArmyWife Sun, Aug 30, 2009 10:48:50pm |
re: #499 iceweasel
One of the Union Presidents I deal with quotes fact check. org. What does THAT tell you? ;)
| 507 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Aug 30, 2009 10:49:30pm |
re: #482 ggt
teeny tiny mouse-brain-sized bullets?
Poisons or mechanical traps would be better. For rats, there are prepackaged ratshot shotshells that fire small pellets that will kill a rat. Or there is also the Organic Solution.
| 508 |
astronmr20 Sun, Aug 30, 2009 10:49:33pm |
re: #497 realwest
My friend, if you can scrape together the $ for your next computer purchase, please go with a Mac.
BTW, I live in Charlotte and I’m in I.T/ operations. I’d be happy to help with the conversion.
| 509 |
Gus Sun, Aug 30, 2009 10:49:45pm |
re: #495 BryanS
glue traps on congress then?
Glue trap, with a water bottle near by and some snacks with a little speaker that plays “Bay City Rollers” for 6 weeks.
//
| 510 |
pink freud Sun, Aug 30, 2009 10:49:53pm |
re: #506 ArmyWife
One of the Union Presidents I deal with quotes fact check. org. What does THAT tell you? ;)
Factcheck is owned by the Annenberg Foundation. Yes, *that* Annenberg Foundation. Suspect.
| 511 |
iceweasel Sun, Aug 30, 2009 10:50:11pm |
re: #506 ArmyWife
One of the Union Presidents I deal with quotes fact check. org. What does THAT tell you? ;)
Uhoh. That he’s a seekrit commie like me? ;)
| 512 |
ArmyWife Sun, Aug 30, 2009 10:50:41pm |
re: #507 Dark_Falcon
Watch poisons. They can go back into the wall to die amongst friends and then stink to high heaven!
| 514 |
ArmyWife Sun, Aug 30, 2009 10:51:53pm |
re: #511 iceweasel
He is worse, a socialist libertarian. AKKK!
| 516 |
BryanS Sun, Aug 30, 2009 10:53:32pm |
re: #509 Gus 802
Glue trap, with a water bottle near by and some snacks with a little speaker that plays “Bay City Rollers” for 6 weeks.
//
Not familiar with the group, so I had to google for it…Yikes, you really do know your torture. You didn’t by chance work in Cheney’s office, did you?
| 517 |
Gus Sun, Aug 30, 2009 10:54:21pm |
re: #516 BryanS
Not familiar with the group, so I had to google for it…Yikes, you really do know your torture. You didn’t by chance work in Cheney’s office, did you?
Karl Rove and AIPAC.
//
| 518 |
iceweasel Sun, Aug 30, 2009 10:58:01pm |
re: #504 Jimmah
A fact is a fact no matter where it comes from.
Reality has a wellknown liberal bias, hon. ;)
| 519 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Aug 30, 2009 10:58:58pm |
re: #405 itellu3times
What is with these fires in Los Angeles?
Seems to me they are not being aggressively fought - is this some effect of California budget problems?
If Mt. Wilson burns, losing transmitters and/or telescope … well, I assume firefighters can “make a stand” there.
You see the two geniuses who tried to ride out the fire in their hot tub?
Why do you think they’re not being aggressively fought?
| 520 |
Fenway_Nation Sun, Aug 30, 2009 10:59:06pm |
re: #499 iceweasel
Yup. That’s why it’s ridiculous to claim they’re left-leaning or in the tank for Obama. They’re a major resource for the left for criticising Obama.
Let me guess some of the left’s criticisms of 0bama:
-Not cozying up to Hugo Chavez quick enough
-Not taking over enough sectors of the economy quick enough
-Not throwing democratically elected gov’t of Iraq to the wolves quick enough
-Not sending enough money to ‘resistance’ groups like Hizbullah or Hamas
-Authorized the slayings of three black youths on the high seas
-Not throwing Colombia to the wolves quick enough
-Not cozying up to Achmedinejahd quick enough
-Not prosecuting Bush Administration officials quick enough
-Not cozying up to Robert Mugabe quick enough
-Not closing down Guantanamo Bay quick enough
-Not thowing Isreal to the wolves quick enough
-Not cozying up to Daniel Ortega quick enough
-Not ending Bush’s imperialistic war for oil in Afghanistan quick enough
| 521 |
Jack Burton Sun, Aug 30, 2009 11:00:47pm |
re: #494 Jimmah
Facts don’t get cooties because of where they’re from.
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com…]
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com…]
I know Charles said this but, frankly if something is a fact we should be able to source non biased or non-kook sites for the information. They can be stopped clocks at times but I don’t trust MediaMatters or American Thinker or DKos or WND or HuffPo or The Shrieking Harpy et al. and if a link goes to any such place I’ll ignore it.
| 522 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Aug 30, 2009 11:01:13pm |
re: #518 iceweasel
Reality has a wellknown liberal bias, hon. ;)
Mot agreeing with, not by a long shot. But good talking to you iceweasel. It 1am where I am, and i’ve got to get to bed. Good night, all.
| 523 |
Van Helsing Sun, Aug 30, 2009 11:01:51pm |
re: #507 Dark_Falcon
Poisons or mechanical traps would be better. For rats, there are prepackaged ratshot shotshells that fire small pellets that will kill a rat. Or there is also the Organic Solution.
| 524 |
ArmyWife Sun, Aug 30, 2009 11:02:40pm |
In case it was missed upstairs, I am going to bed. You guys have a good night, try to get on without me.
| 525 |
iceweasel Sun, Aug 30, 2009 11:02:52pm |
re: #522 Dark_Falcon
Mot agreeing with, not by a long shot. But good talking to you iceweasel. It 1am where I am, and i’ve got to get to bed. Good night, all.
Oh, I’m just joking with that link, DF. Sleep well! Always a pleasure to talk to you.
| 526 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Aug 30, 2009 11:03:59pm |
re: #470 ggt
Ok, I’ll bite, why are glue traps inhumane?
Takes a long time for the mouse to die, and they end up ripping out fur and skin, and usually eventually smothering themselves or just dying of shock. Snap trap snaps the spine.
I won’t use glue traps, ever, it’s no way to kill anything.
| 528 |
iceweasel Sun, Aug 30, 2009 11:05:57pm |
re: #521 ArchangelMichael
I know Charles said this but, frankly if something is a fact we should be able to source non biased or non-kook sites for the information. They can be stopped clocks at times but I don’t trust MediaMatters or American Thinker or DKos or WND or HuffPo or The Shrieking Harpy et al. and if a link goes to any such place I’ll ignore it.
Really?
So you ignore Charles’ links to HuffPo and Kos?
You ignored the whole first three days of the Iran coverage, where all the best news was coming from Nico Pitney at HuffPo, Andrew Sullivan, and some Kos diarists?
WND, American Thinker, and the Shrieking Harpy are total lunatics, true, but as for the others they have to be assessed on individual merits. I’m not arguing that we should believe everything they say — no way! — but asking that we acknowledge they do, in some instances, have some good stuff.
| 529 |
Jack Burton Sun, Aug 30, 2009 11:12:05pm |
re: #528 iceweasel
Really?
So you ignore Charles’ links to HuffPo and Kos?
You ignored the whole first three days of the Iran coverage, where all the best news was coming from Nico Pitney at HuffPo, Andrew Sullivan, and some Kos diarists?WND, American Thinker, and the Shrieking Harpy are total lunatics, true, but as for the others they have to be assessed on individual merits. I’m not arguing that we should believe everything they say — no way! — but asking that we acknowledge they do, in some instances, have some good stuff.
I differentiate real-time news reporting from after the fact commentary or opinion. In the case of the latter, none of the above are reliable sources.
Only Mohammed Saeed al-Sahhaf can and would stand in front of a burning building and say nothing is on fire. HuffPo doesn’t do that and wouldn’t get away with it. It also doesn’t mean I will trust what some Op-Ed from HuffPo says about it a few days later.
| 530 |
itellu3times Sun, Aug 30, 2009 11:20:48pm |
re: #519 SanFranciscoZionist
Why do you think they’re not being aggressively fought?
The Palos Verdes fire was out in under twelve hours.
The Station fire has been buring for three days now, yes in tougher territory, but in such calm weather I think aggressive fighting would have closed down most of the perimeter by now.
There are a number of good and bad reasons why they might have been less aggressive than they could have been, I fear this one was somewhat misunderestimated.
| 531 |
Jack Burton Sun, Aug 30, 2009 11:22:01pm |
re: #528 iceweasel
And if I remember correctly, wasn’t most of the info that Huffpo, KOS, and the like coming from blogs and twitter in the first place… and all accompanied by “we cant verify this” CYA verbiage?
I think Jon Stewart spent a whole segment of a show making fun of the media getting and reporting unverified stories from twitter.
| 532 |
iceweasel Sun, Aug 30, 2009 11:26:44pm |
re: #529 ArchangelMichael
I differentiate real-time news reporting from after the fact commentary or opinion. In the case of the latter, none of the above are reliable sources.
Which is why I mentioned, above, as in the case of MMFA, that people on the right would want to avoid their commentary and opinion.
Sully, Pitney, and HuffPo were the best at aggregating Iran news for those 3 days. Some of it was via twitter, some from other places like NIAC. (national iranian american counsel, i think it stands for.) It took the MSM 3 days to catch up, and the rightwing blogs never talked about it at all for those 3 days. They were busy with DijonGate or some other nonsense.
| 533 |
Jack Burton Sun, Aug 30, 2009 11:30:32pm |
re: #532 iceweasel
It took the MSM 3 days to catch up, and the rightwing blogs never talked about it at all for those 3 days. They were busy with DijonGate or some other nonsense.
You’ll get no argument from me that the “Right Wing Blogs” were distracted by something shiny, but asinine, at any given time in the past 6 months.
| 534 |
iceweasel Sun, Aug 30, 2009 11:39:06pm |
re: #533 ArchangelMichael
You’ll get no argument from me that the “Right Wing Blogs” were distracted by something shiny, but asinine, at any given time in the past 6 months.
Yes, it’s really strange to see what’s been going on with them. What the hell has happened to them? It’s a damn shame. There’s hardly any left that I like to read any more. Ed Morrissey is a smart guy and I liked reading him but now he’s pandering to the HotAir crowd. It stinks.
I keep pushing this nifty term from BalloonJuice:
This punchy term nicely captures the way that rightwing argumentation has become gradually detached from independently recognized reality and into a state of total unselfawareness. The pace of change is also accelerating. Just weeks before the election I never could guess that wingnuts would organize nationally around an act that they call teabagging. Imagine being the traveler from the future of three months hence trying to convince Americans of our semantically awkward future. How would you even start?
Thanks to the magic of talk radio and the internet, these guys can talk to no-one but each other for extremely long stretches of time, so they have no idea how crazy they sound. The time could come in the very near future when it becomes totally impossible for any ordinary person to have any idea what they are talking about. They will be beyond ordinary logic, beyond spoof. The wingularity will have arrived.
The whole post is good; worth checking out.
| 535 |
Jack Burton Sun, Aug 30, 2009 11:46:06pm |
re: #534 iceweasel
The breakdown of rationality and the groupthink/pandering causing many to “go along with it” is troubling.
I’m actually afraid to check out Bill Whittle’s site now for fear I’ll see ODS or worse from someone who I looked to as the best example of non-kooky conservatism for the past 5 years or so.
Maybe I’ll ask up thread if anyone has looked lately.
| 536 |
Mich-again Mon, Aug 31, 2009 3:31:43am |
re: #387 iceweasel
The republican leadership certainly seems to acknowledge that any and all reform must be blocked, by any means necessary, no matter what it is, and no matter that they have to blatantly lie to do it.
Bullshit. You copy the tactics of Glen Beck making sweeping ridiculous blanket statements like that. Politics is sport. Hooray for my side, boo for yours.
| 537 |
yochanan Mon, Aug 31, 2009 5:04:09am |
POLITICS = poli &tics or many blood sucking insects.
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What Result Will There Be From the Trump Trial?I did my best to boil this down. What say you?
Rightwingconspirator
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Grocers Are Finally Lowering Prices as Consumers Pull Back Consumers have been grumbling about the soaring cost of groceries for nearly two years. Now, some of the biggest names in retail appear to be listening. In recent weeks, Target and Aldi have broadcast price cuts on thousands of ...
Cheechako
A Water War Is Brewing Between the U.S. And Mexico. Here’s Why A water dispute between the United States and Mexico that goes back decades is turning increasingly urgent in Texas communities that rely on the Rio Grande. Their leaders are now demanding the Mexican government either share water or face ... Cheechako
Harper’s Magazine: Slippery Slope - How Private Equity Shapes a Ski Town …Big Sky stands apart for other reasons. The obvious distinction is the Yellowstone Club, a private resort hidden in the mountains above the community that Justin Farrell, a professor of sociology at Yale and the author of Billionaire Wilderness, ... teleskiguy
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Trump’s “Stolen Election” Lie Based on Evidence From Pervy Bathroom Cam-Spy OK, this really takes the cake. If you have relatives that still cling to the “election was stolen, dadgum, I jes’ KNOW IT … This should be a slight remedy to the stubborn madness Thanks to online anonymity, the ...
Khal Wimpo (free internal organs upon request!)
Ranked-Choice Voting Has Challenged the Status Quo. Its Popularity Will Be Tested in November. JUNEAU — Alaska’s new election system — with open primaries and ranked voting — has been a model for those in other states who are frustrated by political polarization and a sense that voters lack real choice at the ... Cheechako
