The denizens of Democratic Underground are prone to apoplectic fits when you question their patriotism, or call them America-haters. But see … that’s the thing. They really do hate America, and in this thread they discuss the reasons for their hatred with total candor: If by ‘America’ you mean the majority living here now, then I hate America. (Hat tip: Jheka.)

The discussion is kicked off by someone seeking counseling from his peers. Should he stay or should he go (now)?

If by “America” you mean the vision of the Founding Fathers, then I love America. But it’s hard to keep that vision in front of me when the majority of “Americans” are fundamentalist, fascistic, homophobic, racist, sexist, ignorant, American Idol-loving morons who think Bush is a strong leader. I think that the America I love is beyond retrieval because it would take more than a new President, it would take a re-awakening of a whole group of stupid people who don’t want re-awakening. Bush didn’t destroy America. Americans who had no idea of the wonderful country they were given destroyed America, and will continue to destroy it whether Kerry is elected or not.

Should I stay? Would you counsel someone to stay in an abusive relationship and hope that the person will stop hitting them if they can just reach the person somehow?

To which one helpful DU gentleman chimes in:

If chimpy gets selected again, we’re all in big trouble. The fascists you describe will start doing more than just voting, the “brownshirts” will be coming after people.

And the people like us will oppose them with whatever means necessary.

It’ll then get ugly, real ugly.

Can we question their patriotism yet?