Irvine: the Gaza of California.

just a mass exit at a planned moment

I think that's a splendid plan. A mass exit -- and just keep going...and going...

Mass walk out- too bad they don't try this in europe.

Muslim Stundent Union

Typo alert: Stundent = Student.

Unless there's something I don't know.

Is a "Stundent" someone who is perpetually stunned?

PLEASE TAZE THEM BRO!

Lame.

I love all the non-dhimmis moving in to better seats. I'd have done that too.

Censorship?

true question.

There are only so many seats in this place...so by showing up knowing that they are going to leave, after the event has started, aren't they in some way not allowing his message to be heard. (ie: censorship)?

now if they'd just "walk out" of Gaza and The WB and go back to Jordan, where they're from, everything would be cool!

re: #4 zombie

Muslim Stundent Union

Is a "Stundent" someone who is perpetually stunned?

Could be.

Actually, I think it would be more accurate to describe the UC Irvine campus as "Gaza of California", rather than the city as a whole; it's an upscale conservative stronghold.

Or used to be...
.
.

I wonder: for their little stunt, did the MSU take up as many seats as possible so fewer people who actually wanted to hear Daniel Pipes would get in?

WrathofG-d (#8),

There appear to be plenty of empty seats before the walk out.

re: #8 WrathofG-d

GMTA.

re: #12 Spiny Norman

what is GMTA?

Daniel et al expect this by now, however they should start their presentations with a challenge to stick around and listen. After all if your faith is strong it should not be shaken by contrary opinion.

re: #9 paxnhymn

Don't forget Jerusalem and the Temple Mount.

It's like there was a group to fill in when they left.

This is fine by me, let 'em leave. Makes the speech that much better for the rest of them.

And he's right, they just don't want to listen. Maybe they're afraid of what they'll hear.

I'm sure this isn't the first time this sort of thing has happened to Mr. Pipes. He's speaking to tough rooms constantly. You have to admire his courage.

Judging by how the angry musselmen and their bleating leftist apologists hate him, He's a real thorn in the side of the people I loathe.

God Bless him.

re: #13 WrathofG-d

re: #12 Spiny Norman

what is GMTA?

Good morning, Tel Aviv! ;

In actuality? Great minds think alike.

re: #7 Sharmuta

I love all the non-dhimmis moving in to better seats. I'd have done that too.

Too bad the tape didn't run longer, more people would have been seen filing into building to listen to Daniel Pipes.

. Mr. Pipes strafes the Islamofascists as they leave:

'One of the aspects of radical Islam and the totalitarian mindset is that you don't want to hear anything outside of your own small little world of knowledge. And the totalitarian mindset means that if you were to be exposed to something you're not in agreement with then you do not listen.'

If only they could keep going.

Nice to see the reasonable ones move up in the emptied front seats and continue to listen to the adult while the children whose sensitivities are not mature enough for this kind of rational thinking, were led away from the room like little sheep from some unseen beaconing drug.

Cute to see 'em round themselves up in a heard of stupidity, 'bout all they could manage for adult like behavior, I suppose. Must have killed some not to be able to chant, scream, break things, draw blood, spit, get naked (ugg!), vandalize, behead oh wait that's their friends, well you know the list and etc..

re: #18 NY Nana

Thank you.

You're missing an interesting conversation about Xmas on the key thread.
/well I think its interesting.

re: #10 Spiny Norman

I wonder: for their little stunt, did the MSU take up as many seats as possible so fewer people who actually wanted to hear Daniel Pipes would get in?

It would seem so. And buying tickets for a lecture that you don't plan to attend, in order to prevent other people from hearing it, seems like a pretty direct attack on free speech and intelligent discourse. It seems to me that the MSU should be disciplined if they organized this.

Of course, that would never happen at UCI. Besides, if the MSU wasn't disciplined for all of their various "kill all the Jews" rants, then they certainly aren't going to be disciplined for quietly preventing a speaker's message from being heard.

I'm actually a little encouraged. It is an uncommonly civilized Islamist who makes any point in a way that doesn't involve a lot shrieking, violent attacks on people, and destruction of property.

Check out the second video on the OCBlog post. The MSU protesters can't even explain why they protested the speech.

Pipes, Spencer, Emerson and a whole host of others who speak out against terrorism are marvels of decorum and grace when they tell it like it is .. regardless of the mind-less in the audience. My hat is off to Mr. Pipes once again.

re: #24 WrathofG-d

You are most welcome.

Lurked on the other thread.

what happened to the good old days when, if you didn't want to hear someone speak you just didn't go to their speech?

This demonstration of civility from the MSU is always welcome. I wish they'd learn some more.

I am sure that could not have been very satisfing for the protesters.
Others took their seats right away. I predict something louder and
hostile the next time around.

President Bush had to make Dr. Pipes an interim appointment to be a Member of the Board of Directors of the United States Institute of Peace, as the Demonrats, IIRC, kept vetoing the appointment.

I pray the next time some Paleostinian wants to demonstrate against Israel they do like these morons and just walk off the bus full of children instead of blowing it up.
/not holding my breath.

Bet I could do a booming business on the UC Irvine campus selling Mohammed Teddy Bears. ;]

Pipes rcvd applause for his comments over the exiting islamists.

I'd just like to add mine to theirs.

Someone held up a sign saying "Smash Racism..."

Too bad Pipes didn't ask "Which race?"

The Rat Race.

"Totalitarian Mindset" = Drink?

/dang, wrong drinking thread again!

Daniel Pipes' website is http://www.danielpipes.org/

From there you can sign up for his free email list, and/or make a tax-deductible contribution to the Middle East Forum.

I have done both, but I have no other connection to Pipes or the MEF. Just a little plugging as a public service.

Walid Shoebat is scheduled to speak at the University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee on Tuesday. But the university website has exactly nothing about the event. I can't even find out where and when it is.
I do know that the local MSA is having a counter-meeting. They wanted him dis-invited, but the university turned them down flat.
I'll attend if I can manage to find out when it is. I'm not too worried about any violence; the locals are fairly well-behaved.

WARNING: VERY GRAPHIC and UPSETTING

Zimbabwe: The horror of a Stricken nation waiting to die

Iraq is a paradise compared to this:

We found paupers’ burials, starving children with stunted bodies, orphans left to fend for themselves in the most brutal environments. It is a country regressing from commercial farms to vegetable patches, from the light bulb to the oil lamp, from the tap to the well. Feet – often bare – are replacing the wheel as the most common form of transport. Once Africa’s breadbasket, Zimbabwe can no longer provide its citizens with bread and water.

“This is the world’s worst humanitarian disaster, worse even than Darfur,” said David Coltart, an opposition MP. “We lose more people a week to preventable illnesses than are lost in Iraq, but because there’s no blood on the streets, little attention is paid to what’s going on here.”

Zimbabwe, like Sarudzai, has deteriorated dramatically since March. It is closer than ever to complete collapse, according to the International Crisis Group. Inflation has soared from 1,700 to 15,000 per cent. Draconian price controls have emptied the shops because producers cannot cover their costs. Though millions are starving, farmers are slaughtering dairy herds because they cannot sell milk at a viable price. But those who still have money can buy almost anything on the flourishing black market.

Zimbabwe: The horror of a Stricken nation waiting to die

We found paupers’ burials, starving children with stunted bodies, orphans left to fend for themselves in the most brutal environments. It is a country regressing from commercial farms to vegetable patches, from the light bulb to the oil lamp, from the tap to the well. Feet – often bare – are replacing the wheel as the most common form of transport. Once Africa’s breadbasket, Zimbabwe can no longer provide its citizens with bread and water.

“This is the world’s worst humanitarian disaster, worse even than Darfur,” said David Coltart, an opposition MP. “We lose more people a week to preventable illnesses than are lost in Iraq, but because there’s no blood on the streets, little attention is paid to what’s going on here.”

Zimbabwe, like Sarudzai, has deteriorated dramatically since March. It is closer than ever to complete collapse, according to the International Crisis Group. Inflation has soared from 1,700 to 15,000 per cent. Draconian price controls have emptied the shops because producers cannot cover their costs. Though millions are starving, farmers are slaughtering dairy herds because they cannot sell milk at a viable price. But those who still have money can buy almost anything on the flourishing black market.

Please delete #43 - preview is my friend

Islam is a government not a religion. They should leave USA or change their names to arabs, or just humans.

And what religion is Mugabe anyway? I thought the worst horrors come from religion.

My first thought was peaceful and respectful interruption. My next was how many protesters are the enemy of America? Chilling.

Speaking of the teddy bear case...

[Link: www.dailymail.co.uk...]

Dr Muhammad Abdul Bari, secretary-general of the Muslim Council of Britain branded the court decision a "gross over-reaction from Sudanese authorities".

He said: "This case should have required only simple common sense to resolve. It is unfortunate that the Sudanese authorities were found wanting in this most basic of qualities.

"Gillian should never have been arrested, let alone charged and convicted of committing a crime. We hope that Gillian will be able to return home without much further delay."

The Muslim Council of Britain called the sentence completely unjustified.

"I'm utterly disappointed with this decision," said the council's Ibrahim Mogra. "We have been calling on the Sudanese authorities to show leniency, that this was a case of an innocent oversight, a misunderstanding, and there was no need for this to be escalated."

Four Gaza mutants iced

re: #46 DistantThunder

Apparently he's Roman Catholic.

re: #46 DistantThunder

I thought the worst horrors come from religion.

If you consider Marxism and Fascism to be among the political religions of the world.

Pol Pol, Stalin, Hitler, Mao, Lenin sure had a good run at " horrors," to apply as candidates.

Crusades, Thirty Years' War and Conquest are not even comparable to the number of political religions. Islam is a theocracy -- that means a political religion. Its doctrine is found in the Koran. If you talk bad about that doctrine ( just like Marxism or Fascism) then violence is your fate.

Human lemmings following each other off a cliff...

Charles, when I click on the Times Online main heading in the Ajax menus, it directs to the current thread. The story links work fine, but I was wondering whether you're aware of the glitch.

re: #49 JammieWearingFool

Four Gaza mutants iced

Ice aint gonna help wher they just went. Melted in about 1/100,000,000,000 of a millisecond.

I don't know if Mr. Pipes said it at some point, but another aspect of the totalitarian mindset is that it does not perceive irony!

re: #10 Spiny Norman

re: #4 zombie

Muslim Stundent Union

Is a "Stundent" someone who is perpetually stunned?

Could be.

Actually, I think it would be more accurate to describe the UC Irvine campus as "Gaza of California", rather than the city as a whole; it's an upscale conservative stronghold.

Or used to be...
.
.

I wonder: for their little stunt, did the MSU take up as many seats as possible so fewer people who actually wanted to hear Daniel Pipes would get in?

Interesting thought.

Used to be is the key word.

I would guess in a few years UC Irvine will have as many radical islamic yuppies and moonbats as UCLA or Berkley.

To the seating monopoly, it certainly could have been a maneuver to hog the seats so others could not get in.

re: #51 mikalm

...still, the Church hierarchy has roundly denounced him.

Fascinating. And Mr. Pipes handled it well: They are indeed immersed in a totalitarian mindset, which is closed-off to hearing anything they don't want to heard (regardless how well-reasoned and in-synch with reality it is). So, that leaves them with two options: Try to shout-down those they don't like, or else leave. Given the choice, I'm sure we all prefer the latter.

At least they didn’t rush the podium and attack the speaker. That in it self is a huge improvement from their running around like mindless monsters screaming death to everything that disagrees with their form of government disguised as a religion. Why even bother to show up if you can’t handle an opposing view.

re: #62 taxfreekiller

After visiting Ensenada last year, I remarked to my trip-mate, "Yeah, the whole place is a lot like San Francisco's Mission District...except that it seems that on every block there's a uniformed guy toting an assault rifle or a riot gun!"

re: #54 Straitcircle

If you consider Marxism and Fascism to be among the political religions of the world.

Fascism is a political religion. From The Doctrine of Fascism:

The Fascist conception of life is a religious one, in which man is viewed in his immanent relation to a higher law, endowed with an objective will transcending the in­dividual and raising him to conscious membership of a spiritual society. "Those who perceive nothing beyond opportunistic considerations in the religious policy of the Fascist regime fail to realize that Fascism is not only a system of government but also and above all a system of thought.

Change the fascist terms for islamic ones, and you can see why the term "islamofascism" is so apropos.

re: #49 JammieWearingFool

Thanks, Jammie!

Idea. Pipes should get a Teddy Bear, have a name tag, Mohamhead, and put it on his lecterns. Then they can exit his talks and hop around outside threatening to kill him.

If only buses were there to take them right to the airport.

re: #41 Pope Insouciance IV

Walid Shoebat is scheduled to speak at the University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee on Tuesday. But the university website has exactly nothing about the event. I can't even find out where and when it is.
I do know that the local MSA is having a counter-meeting. They wanted him dis-invited, but the university turned them down flat.
I'll attend if I can manage to find out when it is. I'm not too worried about any violence; the locals are fairly well-behaved.

According to UW Waukesha/Milwaukee for Ron Paul (!):

When: Wednesday, December 5, 2007, 7:30 PM

Where:

UW-Milwaukee Student Union
2200 East Kenwood Boulevard Wisconsin Room
Milwaukee , WI 53211
(414) 229-4070

Description:

The Conservative Union will welcome Walid Shoebat to Campus. Walid grew up in Palestine- and is a former, and reformed member of the PLO (Palestinian Liberation Organization) terrorist group. He will speak on the dangers of indoctrinated radical Islam- and the viable threat it poses to the West and allied Israel. Location: UW-Milwaukee Student Union- Wisconsin Room

However, the wicatholicmusings blog says he's speaking the day before, i.e. Tuesday the 4th. They say you need a university ID to attend, but offer to coordinate inviting people as a guest.

I suppose it may be worth contacting the UWM Conservative Union directly, to find out a definite time and arrange to be invited. Contact info can be found here.

re: #62 taxfreekiller

Keep in you little heads, its safe to visit Mexico, its just a little like Iraq, but without the islamic terrorist and the IED's, just a little auto weapons being fired off from the car next to yours ,, its all ok.

The drug cartel guys can't afford the weapons the oil sheiks can. every body knows you gotta have gas, but you don't gotta have coke.

re: #44 DistantThunder

Once Africa’s breadbasket, Zimbabwe can no longer provide its citizens with bread and water.

A result of Mugabe's hateful anti-white reign.

Zimbabwe President Robert Mugabe's philosophy as he launched his so-called "fast-track" land reform program in 2000 was simple - the end justifies the means.

But that was precisely the bone of contention of those who advised caution and respect for the rule of law as thousands of white commercial farmers were violently expelled from their land and a number were brutally assaulted and killed.

The doubters, however, were in a minority and did not have the enforcing powers enjoyed by those who wield political power. In the event, Zimbabwe’s land reform went ahead - unplanned, chaotic, violent, imprecise and economically destructive.

Seven years down the line, remaining white-owned commercial farms are being expropriated in a new wave of seizures and reallocated, mainly to politicians of Mugabe's ruling ZANU PF party and those with good connections to the government.

re: #50 ploome hineni

LOOK AT THIS SHIT

Muslim students fear for their safety at University of Wisconsin/ Milwaukee
November 27, 2007

Aha. This well-summarized story would seem to confirm that the event will be on Tuesday. What are the odds that the Paulians' saying it's Wednesday was an honest mistake?

I wish the video was longer. Pipe's speech seemed interesting. He sure did hit the nail on the head calling the people leaving for their foot-baths narrow-minded.

Leaving is good. Very, very good. They made a protest statement while still allowing free speech to continue. It looks like they are finally being shamed into behaving in a civilized manner.

If we let him speak over loudspeakers in every major US city would they all leave the country? Lets start today!

More beer for us!

Out of 1,000 who showed up the following evening at the Alan Dershowitz speech, I would guess 30 to 50 were MSU members. The MSU members stayed in their seats - no posters were waived, no theatrics from their end.

30 minutes were allocated for Q&A. The Jewish Federation / Hillel leadership chose who was permitted to ask questions. Four were chosen; the first and fourth were, respectively, the leader of the MSU and a member of the MSU.

re: #82 taxfreekiller

So,

What's up with the "so"?

Muslims tend to get a lot of free passes at universities.

At my school, the University of Waterloo, they held Muslim Awareness Week last April. The Muslim Student Society screened a video in the main student area. I immediately recognized the guy in the video, a black imam with a grizzly beard, from the Channel 4 documentary "Undercover Mosque". It was the nut who called gender equality a delusion, claimed AIDS was a Western invention and the missionaries injected the virus to African children, and said "We shouldn't go and debate with Jews or Christians about the filth in which they believe, no use engaging them."

There he was though, sporting a less pissed-off tone of voice, debating the life of the "historical Jesus", how all "evidence" showed that he was not son of God, but rather a Muslim prophet. It was targeted at Christians, of course.

So hypocritical, from the man who under closed doors claimed they shouldn't even bother debating that filth. Of course it was not debating, but supremacist propaganda.

How I wanted to hijack their big screen and show everyone in the student center a clip of that shitface's true face!

One can only hope that once those jokers left that room, they all walked into a giant FedEx Box and got shipped far far away. Preferably to Pluto.

Is it to much to hope they try to walk back to the mid-east?

Seriously, I'd wager they walked out, held a minor demonstration, and then went back to their cushy dorms and told convinced themselves how much of a difference they made and how they stood up to those "intolerant, racist right-wingers".

Good grief. From the website of our illustrious embassy in Sudan-
"Another interesting custom is the custom of the “Zar”. This takes place when a Sudanese man or woman, generally a woman, feels that she has been possessed by an evil spirit. Her friends then get together and hire an exorcist. The exorcist then comes to the family and performs the rite of exorcism. There is generally a high feeling and great excitement at the “Zar”. It is important to remember that to the Sudanese ladies the possibility of possession and the rite of exorcism are very real."

[Link: khartoum.usembassy.gov...]

Read the rest of this crap, especially the "protocol" section and the many mentions about the fact that women in Sudan are nothing more than sperm receptacles.

Hey guys, OT:

There's this at The Corner. WH Press Sec. Dana Perino gave Helen Thomas a well-deserved slap in the face.

Love it!

re: #44 DistantThunder

Wow, I read the whole thing. Their situation is becoming desperate.

re: #51 mikalm

re: #46 DistantThunder

Apparently he's Roman Catholic.

But he's evil. Al Capone was Catholic, too. That doesn't mean he's a good Catholic.

re: #88 todler

Is it to much to hope they try to walk back to the mid-east?

Seriously, I'd wager they walked out, held a minor demonstration, and then went back to their cushy dorms and told convinced themselves how much of a difference they made and how they stood up to those "intolerant, racist right-wingers".

I'll chip in for a pair of sneakers to keep them walking.

Dr Pipes handled it well, explaining how they're demonstrating the anti-liberal and closed minded behavior of totalitarianism.

Surprised more non-kooks didn't attend, but such is the sad state of affairs at America's universities.

reminds me of Plato's Myth of the Cave

re: #96 taxfreekiller

Please leave, and come back when you're ready to be REALLY depressing!

Under white rule, Zimbabwe fed its entire population, black and white and had surplus to export.

Now under Mugabe, the classic black marxist plutocrat who orders Mercedes by the fleet, whites are being forced out and blacks are starving. Black opposition to Mugabe's dictatorship (elections were rigged) is treated worse (no food for you) than the opposition fared under white rule.

Black oppression and starvation of blacks is apparently OK with the world. But then what am I saying? This is the continent that hosted the Hutu massacre of 800,000 Tutsis and is working the same evil in Darfur with Arabic Muslim militias raping, displacing and killing (over 200,000 now) blacks, whether animist, Christian or even Muslim.

Add child soldiers, the last vestiges of slavery, AIDS epidemic due to promiscuity, and Africa is reverting to the Dark Continent.

Tribalism is unworkable in the 21st century with large populations requiring large-scale economies. Any groups clinging to tribal ways (North American natives, Arabs and Africans) depend on someone else to feed them and are degrading before our very eyes.

Maybe Daniel Pipes should go speak in Gaza and the West Bank, if he got the same reaction, perhaps we'd finally have peace in the mid-east.

re: #7 Sharmuta

I love all the non-dhimmis moving in to better seats. I'd have done that too.

You noticed that guy too at the end sitting down at the last moment...haha.

re: #21 taxfreekiller

So,

yes?

re: #85 song_and_dance_man

so there

I'm here now...!

Can't the Saudis provide free airfare to Mecca for all those walking out of Dr. Pipes' speeches?

They can then kiss the meteorite and stone Satan and stay there for 1350 more years until something like civilization finally erupts.

(And don't let the door hit you where Allah split you.)

re: #90 newton

What the Press Secretary needs to get out there by repeating it a thousand times is the fact that the vast majority of truly innocent Iraqis (as opposed to terrorists dressed as civilians) HAVE BEEN KILLED BY OTHER MUSLIMS, THE ONES OBJECTING TO THE DEMOCRATICALLY ELECTED GOVERNMENT.

Helen Thomas is no grand doyenne. She's from the Walter Duranty school of flagrantly biased journalism, parroting enemy propaganda like an uncritical fool (a useful idiot, as Stalin called them). She should be talked to slowly, like the moron she is until she and her logic challenged disciples get it.

Thomas and her ilk pretend to be so concerned about the innocent but if they had their way Iraqis would still be going through Saddam's meat grinders and chemical saunas with no end in sight.

Thomas wouldn't know truth if it slapped her upside the head, but why don't Press Secretaries tell it anyway? and repeatedly for the slowest members of the class.

re: #29 Kirly

what happened to the good old days when, if you didn't want to hear someone speak you just didn't go to their speech?

Well, they were replaced by the more recent days when if you didn't want to hear someone speak you yelled and shouted and threw things and rushed the stage and set stuff on fire.

This approach has in turn been replaced, in this case at least, by people just leaving in the middle of the speech, which remains a far cry from the "good old days" you spoke of: They're still intellectually retarded, but this way they don't get so much bad press, and everybody else can stay and listen. I feel strangely encouraged.

But he's evil. Al Capone was Catholic, too. That doesn't mean he's a good Catholic.

Never said he was. I just answered a question. And as my follow-up post indicated, it's not like the Roman Catholic hierarchy don't have his number.

re: #66 Sharmuta

re: #54 Straitcircle

If you consider Marxism and Fascism to be among the political religions of the world.

Fascism is a political religion. From The Doctrine of Fascism:

The Fascist conception of life is a religious one, in which man is viewed in his immanent relation to a higher law, endowed with an objective will transcending the in­dividual and raising him to conscious membership of a spiritual society. "Those who perceive nothing beyond opportunistic considerations in the religious policy of the Fascist regime fail to realize that Fascism is not only a system of government but also and above all a system of thought.

Change the fascist terms for islamic ones, and you can see why the term "islamofascism" is so apropos.

The only problem with that reasoning, is the discontinuation of the determinants. Fascism to Mussolini and Giovanni Gentile who wrote the “Doctrine of Fascism,” asked by Mussolini, stipulated ( as you well pointed out the religious side of it too) that its priority character is to invent a system or concept of argued beliefs ( like religion)“ both spiritual and physical,” as a solution to “ MODERNIZE/INDUSTRISE.” Fascism was a heuristic program to modernize Italy. That was its main objective. And to do it, as you well pointed out, there seems to be a religious context, conceptual schemata , associated with its ideology and doctrine.

This is where I differ on the word of “islamofascism.” As far as I know, Islam has not articulated a ideology and doctrine that is intricate as fascism ( or Marxism) for modernization purposes. This reaction by them is framed articulately by Usama bin Laden. It has nothing to do with modernization, it is revengeful things.
“ you have killed our women in your wars, so we will kill yours” – Usama bin Laden ( date unknown).
This is not fascism, it is something else. I’m only trying to clarify the differences in the determinates of what was fascism ( the Italian genesis version) main agenda and Islamist radical’s main agendas. I do not know their main agenda but for “retribution” purposes only.

What can these "students" possibly learn at UC Irvine? Chemistry, physics, aircraft maintenance? I was pleased to see them leave, going to seeth at another location without the benefit of an audience.

While Irvine is a pretty damn good school, I'd have to say that this crap down there really worries me. Who knows, I might have to go down there if I get accepted. A lizard in "Peace"-vine? Interesting.

re: #111 TheMatrix31

While Irvine is a pretty damn good school, I'd have to say that this crap down there really worries me. Who knows, I might have to go down there if I get accepted. A lizard in "Peace"-vine? Interesting.

Don't do anything silly like comment on their opinions or you are likely to end up with the banana slugs at Santa Cruz!

re: #51 mikalm

re: #46 DistantThunder

Apparently he's Roman Catholic.

That link says he is a marxist. What is a Catholic marxist?

re: #112 toomanysnax

re: #111 TheMatrix31

While Irvine is a pretty damn good school, I'd have to say that this crap down there really worries me. Who knows, I might have to go down there if I get accepted. A lizard in "Peace"-vine? Interesting.

Don't do anything silly like comment on their opinions or you are likely to end up with the banana slugs at Santa Cruz!

My daughter's email is banana slug for the california banana slug

I have two degrees from UCI and live locally and regret that I couldn't attend as I was out of town on business. Kudos to Reut Cohen for getting the word out on this event.

These students may as well have raided the news racks and thrown away as many copies as they could. It's basically the same thing. Too bad they didn't stay longer; they may have just learned something.

re: #113 DistantThunder

re: #51 mikalm

re: #46 DistantThunder

Apparently he's Roman Catholic.

That link says he is a marxist. What is a Catholic marxist?

Confused?

re: #41 Pope Insouciance IV

Walid Shoebat is scheduled to speak at the University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee on Tuesday. But the university website has exactly nothing about the event. I can't even find out where and when it is.
I do know that the local MSA is having a counter-meeting. They wanted him dis-invited, but the university turned them down flat.
I'll attend if I can manage to find out when it is. I'm not too worried about any violence; the locals are fairly well-behaved.

From an email, please note the second sentence:

"Walid will speak at University of Milwaukee on Tuesday Dec 4th at 7.30pm in the Wisconsin Room.

For people who are not students email us at walid@shoebat.com with your name and tel number to register as University has indicated registered guests as well as UWM ID holders will only be allowed to attend.

We expect the college to cause possible further obstacles (which means they are scared), so all people who live within 100 miles we ask for your attendance and support to show what Freedom means.

The events coordinator has already accused us of being "Rabel Rousers." Amazing since there has never been any rabel rousing at any of our previous events. We are being now being "profiled" by colleges, how ironic that the ones that are against profiling Arabs pick on us. They are such hypocrites..."

re: #112 toomanysnax

re: #111 TheMatrix31

While Irvine is a pretty damn good school, I'd have to say that this crap down there really worries me. Who knows, I might have to go down there if I get accepted. A lizard in "Peace"-vine? Interesting.

Don't do anything silly like comment on their opinions or you are likely to end up with the banana slugs at Santa Cruz!

They might want to chop my head off or something. I just hope I don't have a teddy bear named Mohammed near me!

As for UC Santa Cruz...my brother went there. Nice physical campus, great weather, yet entirely too liberal/whackjob for my liking.

re: #98 siiras

Tribalism works just fine in the great democracy of neighboring Botswana (where I used to live) and local chiefs still hold kgotla while there's also a national level tribal council alongside it's parliament.

re: #22 The Other Les

If only they could keep going.

They should walk out of our country...go back to their sewers. Good riddance. Wish I knew how to prompt them to do this on a national level.

hopefully that walk will take them right to the edge of the grand canyon...

re: #8 WrathofG-d

Censorship?

true question.

There are only so many seats in this place...so by showing up knowing that they are going to leave, after the event has started, aren't they in some way not allowing his message to be heard. (ie: censorship)?

I agree 100% How did they get so many of the seats anyhow?

Yes, they are definitely learning, I almost admire them for the civility that they demonstrated.

re: #44 DistantThunder

I'm confused. Wasn't Zimbabwe (as Rhodesia) ruled by a bunch of racist white supremacists? Doesn't that make the current Zimbabwean situation morally better than what existed 35 years ago since, despite all his faults, Robert Mugabe is not a racist white supremacist? And wasn't the idea that democracy would bring good times to the people of Zimbabwe, just like Iraq? Isn't democracy the instant cure for all that ails civilization, while whites in charge is pure evil to be shunned? And weren't all those U.N. sanctions placed on Rhodesia intended to make life better for the natives?

But I guess I have a very poor understanding of African politics.

re: #27 bj

& Michelle & Ayan & Wafa..."marvels of decorum and grace ".
It is an absolute lesson in mental poise under fire, & also why these nitwits will be backed into a corner. The Truth is powerful medicine.

articulated Truth = righteous Sword.

re: #45 Straitcircle

Islam is a government not a religion. They should leave USA or change their names to arabs, or just humans.

While you are on the right track, Islam is not merely a religion nor a form of government, but a self-enclosed world-view. This world-view not only dictates their relationship with God(=slavery), but their relationship with other people, their views on politics and government, warfare, humaneness, and every other aspect of life. Unfortunately for those of us who think this world-view of theirs is a crock, their world-view insists that we either agree with them, become their slaves, or die. Their world-view does not allow itself to be informed by outside input or criticism, the point Mr. Pipes was making as the students walked out.

Before anyone tries to use a tu quoque* argument and insist that all religions have the same world-view flaw of Islam, outlined above, I will counter by saying that although Buddhism, Christianity, Hinduism, Judaism, and a host of other religions provide a whole world-view, an enclosed circle of belief, they do not dictate forms of government, relations to those outside the belief, and other details to the oppressive degree that Islam does. Most non-Islamic religions allow disagreement and apostasy without threat of punishment or even death. Most non-Islamic religions are not going to go to war just because some people, race or nation happens to disagree with their notion of God.

_{*you do the same thing}

And Most non-Islamic religions do not elevate & promote lying, going so far as to have a special word for this practice.
hmmm, the father of all lies was who?

re: #121 ploome hineni

re: #116 stevieray

Catholic-Marxist=Libeation theology

[Link: www.google.com...]

If anyone wants an illustration of what hijacking a religion looks like, study "Liberation Theology". The end result Marxism is nothing like the foundation it is built from Roman Catholicism.

While they're up they shoulda just kept walking...all the way back to the God-forsaken filth heaps they came from.
Typical, don't agree with something so just don't listen and walk away. Real mature. Yet they try to force us to listen to them.
Moohammud is a troll. I spit upon islam, figuratively, of course..

re: #109 straitcircle

Thank you- that was a good post. And I agree with you for the most part, however:

This is where I differ on the word of “islamofascism.” As far as I know, Islam has not articulated a ideology and doctrine that is intricate as fascism ( or Marxism) for modernization purposes.

Placed in historical context, islam itself was an articulated ideology for "modernization" in the 7th century. That by today's standards it would take us backwards should not disqualify it from a "fascist" label. From the Doctrine of Fascism again:

Liberalism denied the State in the name of the individual; Fascism reasserts the rights of the State as expressing the real essence of the individual.

Again- switching out the terms, replacing them with islamic ones, you can see the correlation. The ummah trumps the individual, reminiscent of fascism yet again. That the ummah's idea of modernization is a throwback to us is mute.

UWisconsin rescinds jizya security fee for ANTI-jihad "Jihad speaker";

Jihad speaker draws concern

A controversial speaker invited by a University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee student group drew national attention this week after the group was initially charged an extra security fee to hold the event.

UWM’s Conservative Union invited former Palestinian Liberation Organization member Walid Shoebat to speak in a lecture titled “Why I Left Jihad” Dec. 4... Dirkse said he received an e-mail from university officials Thursday evening saying the university will be dropping the $1,700 security fee, allowing the group to cover Mr. Shoebat’s honorarium and helping the Conservative Union’s finances, Dirkse said.

“You’re going to get people who don’t like his ideas or feel threatened, but this is the first time I’ve ever had to pay for security and I’ve helped plan over 10 events,” Dirkse said.

Badger Herald invites comments here.

WTMJ exposes the MSA intimidation campaign;

Shut Up, they explained

The Muslims at UWM feel that their safety will be in danger if
the above mentioned event takes place on the UWM campus. We ask the UWM Administration to cancel the event due to these circumstances for the safety and comfort of the students. We take such an event as a direct attack on us and will hope the university will ask the sponsoring organizations to discontinue the program. You can reach us at our office at xxx if you have any further questions or to schedule a meeting to discuss this further.

We appreciate any efforts in this case.

Sincerely,
Mohamed ElSayed
President
Muslim Student Association

"... until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."

re: #111 TheMatrix31

While Irvine is a pretty damn good school, I'd have to say that this crap down there really worries me. Who knows, I might have to go down there if I get accepted. A lizard in "Peace"-vine? Interesting.

Well, maybe I'm the only one who feels this way, but I have no problem with them walking out in civilized manner as they did. Yes, it was still a disruption, but if you listen to what Pipes said as it was happening, they made his point for him.

He was discussing totalitarian ideology. Islamic extremist ideology and that it stifles all the other voices around it. Just as they walked out and refused to hear, so Pipes pointed out that this is the very problem we face. The inability to even discuss the issues that concern the Western world. He also rightly mentioned that in an academic environment especially, all ideas should be considered, which they obviously refused.

And of course making way for, apparently, many students who wanted to listen so that was great.

But to you Matrix31, I hope you get into Irvine. They could use a few more students who are willing to listen and stand up (or sit down as the case may be hehe)

I'm just disappointed they weren't on a very small boat in the middle of a very large ocean, with sharks.

re: #128 David IV of Georgia

re: #45 Straitcircle

Islam is a government not a religion. They should leave USA or change their names to arabs, or just humans.

While you are on the right track, Islam is not merely a religion nor a form of government, but a self-enclosed world-view. This world-view not only dictates their relationship with God(=slavery), but their relationship with other people, their views on politics and government, warfare, humaneness, and every other aspect of life. Unfortunately for those of us who think this world-view of theirs is a crock, their world-view insists that we either agree with them, become their slaves, or die. Their world-view does not allow itself to be informed by outside input or criticism, the point Mr. Pipes was making as the students walked out.

Before anyone tries to use a tu quoque* argument and insist that all religions have the same world-view flaw of Islam, outlined above, I will counter by saying that although Buddhism, Christianity, Hinduism, Judaism, and a host of other religions provide a whole world-view, an enclosed circle of belief, they do not dictate forms of government, relations to those outside the belief, and other details to the oppressive degree that Islam does. Most non-Islamic religions allow disagreement and apostasy without threat of punishment or even death. Most non-Islamic religions are not going to go to war just because some people, race or nation happens to disagree with their notion of God.

_{*you do the same thing}

If I did, you need to provide that proof. This will be tough for you since I implied/said no such thing.

Islam is a form of government as well as a religion: It is a theocracy. Take some time to look up that word. Next, try to read the Koran. There are some authoritative English translations on Islamic servers you could access from the net on major Universities within the USA. You will find the Koran advocates kingship ( a centralized leader, as the representative of Allah on earth, still a slave to Allah but his representative). Judaism is also a government system. Its ideology and government are outlined in the Old Testament. You will find that Jesus came to end Judaism’s earthly hold on the truth. What is that truth? It was called the New Testament, and it ended Judaism’s superiority to its earthly government system of the Chosen people— a leader ( Prophets) – an ideology that Jews are the only people for God ( the chosen ones). Jesus did not advocate earthly government rule such as Moses, and the various other Biblical Old Testament figures. This you should have learnt in second or third grade.

re: #133 Sharmuta

re: #109 straitcircle

Thank you- that was a good post. And I agree with you for the most part, however:

This is where I differ on the word of “islamofascism.” As far as I know, Islam has not articulated a ideology and doctrine that is intricate as fascism ( or Marxism) for modernization purposes.

Placed in historical context, islam itself was an articulated ideology for "modernization" in the 7th century. That by today's standards it would take us backwards should not disqualify it from a "fascist" label. From the Doctrine of Fascism again:

I'm talking about today -- not yesterdaysss... and islam itself was "not" an articulated or an agreed upon set of truth claims until around mid-9th cent. - SC

Just like Christianity, it took century ( ies) to collaborate the information (books, writings) and put them into an order of somewhat comprehensive fashion. Muhammad did not publish ( that is finish the complete draft and/or book) of the Koran, and neither did the Bible come about during Jesus’ days. - SC

Liberalism denied the State in the name of the individual; Fascism reasserts the rights of the State as expressing the real essence of the individual.

I did not write that! -SC

Again- switching out the terms, replacing them with islamic ones, you can see the correlation. The ummah trumps the individual, reminiscent of fascism yet again. That the ummah's idea of modernization is a throwback to us is mute.

Again you are taking words from someone else's post -- and are attributing it to me. Please be more cautious. compare what you quoted.

re: #133 Sharmuta

Here, I may have not articulated my point well. So here I will try to make it clearer.

Mussolini, Hitler, Lenin and Stalin ( not Mao,) articulated their government- political religious systems—substantially in texts ( or treaties). Usama bin Laden and other Islamits have not done this as far as I’m concerned. Giovanni Gentile, whos Actualism philosophy was adopted by Mussolini and appears in the “ Doctrine of Fascism” has its origins in the twentieth century. Hitler adopted some of the prescriptions of Italian Fascism, and wrote his own variant ( including an addition with “race-theory,” not found in the original “ Doctrine of Fascism”) Trotsky, had written, and observed, that Stalin had adopted ‘fascism” ( Generic in this case) from Hitler. This we know. Yet, they wrote about “totalitarianism.” This concept also having origins from the Italian intellects who were writing about fascism’s determinable characteristics, regarded as a “genus” of the sub-species of generic “fascism.” “Totalitarianism’s main objective is to industrialize ( or modernize in the less articulate sense – but since it happened during a paradigm of the industrial era—it makes sense to view in this way).

Totalitarianism, as the ‘genus, ’ has some constellation of empirical observational characteristics. Mao admired J. Stalin, and adopted his “ totalitarian” ideology and doctrine. This we know. But he did not articulate a substantial text arguing prescriptions and conditions for a system. Stalin argued under his rubric of “ socialism in once country;” his government system controlled 95% of the economy and only 5% of it was free-market. The constellation of empirical observational characteristics is elaborate set of argued truth claims, and is no way affiliated with rhetoric coming from Usama bin laden’s mouth. I find it deplorable that we call Islamist radicals associated with Al Qaeda, Islamofascists. It makes no sense. It is more like a “retributionary” movement. i.e., “ you killed our women in your wars, so we will kill yours.” ( Usama bin Laden, date unknown). That is not fascism, at all. While the Koran advocates a preferable government system, it still is abstract, and is not articulated – but it still, nonetheless, it is a government system. After the events of 1798, the west sought to take religion out of politics, or disassociate them in some degree. Islam has had trouble doing this, but some are trying. Egypt, itself tried to industrialize in the twentieth century, but failed.

In general, Islam has not articulated a modernization/ industrialization program of the likes of aforementioned treaties by these individuals I just discussed. Therefore, it cannot be called fascism. “Islamofascism” is an abusive term.

All those extremely hip people with khaffiya. So fashionable! Much cooler are those though.

If only those useful idiot dhimmis walking out with the carpet munchers knew what their 'Muslim friends' said about them behind their backs...

/Ban Muslim Immigration

Well, they can't have Muslims who aren't thoroughly brainwashed actually listening to the speech. They might start having second thoughts.

At least everyone who stayed got better seats.

All Daniel Pipes was denouncing was intolerent, radical and fascist Islam.

So, I presume those walking were radical, fascist Islam supporters?