And Carthage won the Punic Wars.

If he's winning....why did he quit?

re: #1 The Other Les

And Carthage won the Punic Wars.

There should be a pun in there somewhere.

Find this little bastard and terminate him. The snake will die with no head. Oh, crap; maybe. al splodey dope queda is still alive and kicking without obl.

With a lot fewer arms to do the laying down.

"The Mahdi Army fought Iraqi forces to a standstill there while unleashing a daily hail of rockets and mortars on the Green Zone that left al-Maliki's government effectively the ones under siege. And when U.S. and Iraqi troops tried to press into Sadr City to chase the militia's mortar men and rocketeers, they barely managed to establish a foothold on the southern edge of the neighborhood before the situation stalemated."

Time mag is really in the bag for the other side.

When is a defeat not a defeat? When the msm says so!

But the inability of Iraqi forces to operate independently during the recent fighting shows how unlikely that is - unless a new White House decides to reduce military support for an Iraqi government still unable to face down its toughest foe.

Wonder who this guy will be voting for.

May 8th, 1945: Allies sign surrender document.

We're talking about the mind of a Lefty here.
Up is down, black is white....Sadr wins when he actually loses.

It's all relative...don't you know?

TIME mag is a rag.

I scanned the page for the words "Editorial", or "Opinion", but didn't see them. That screed could have been a press release written by Mookie himself. Disgusting.

In a similar vein, Time Magazine is worth reading.

re: #10 DesertSage

We're talking about the mind of a Lefty here.
Up is down, black is white....Sadr wins when he actually loses.

It's all relative...don't you know?

Opposites are identical.

maybe they are all on their way to Lebanon to help out there

re: #14 The Other Les

Opposites are identical.

Water is not wet.

re: #16 VegasRick

Water is not wet.

Gravity does not suck.

re: #6 jaunte "Time mag is really in the bag for the other side."
Yeppers. This truce came about (see Charles links) just as US and Iraqi forces were about to try a massive break out from the parts of Sadr City where they had been "stuck" for a while.
So lemme get this strait; he's winning, sees and knows that the US and Iraqi Armies are coming after his ass full tilt boogie, and then lays down his arms and declares victory?!

About the author of this piece:

While conducting research, Kukis achieved unparalleled access to major players in Lindh’s life. In Pakistan, Kukis found the militants from the jihadi group that trained with Lindh in a Pakistani camp. Kukis also conducted several rounds of interviews with Lindh’s friend who initially settled him in an Islamic boarding school, with Lindh’s instructor there, and with fellow pupils in the hardscrabble Pakistani village where he studied the Koran before journeying into Afghanistan. In Afghanistan, Kukis interviewed Taliban soldiers who fought at MazariSharif and General Dostum, warlord of the region. Exroommates and friends also contributed to Kukis’s research, resulting in the most thorough portrait available of the American Taliban.

[Link: search.barnesandnoble.com...]

he's been "in the company of terrorists" too
Well, Caaahh Aaaahhhg Neato!

MARK KUKIS

PIMF: straight.

TIME RHYMES WITH SLIME

The MSM will not be satisfied until Ayatollah Al-Sadr arrives by plane from Tehran and kisses the tarmac at Baghdad airport. Which would be a deja-vu event like the Ayatollah Khomeini arriving by plane from Paris at Tehran Airport and kissing the tarmac in 1979.
I'm a broken record on this, and I apologize for repeating this over and over. Those who see nothing wrong with that history would like nothing better than to repeat it.

re: #19 BabbaZee
You think gagneato is Mark Kukis, or they just may have the same buddies?

re: #19 BabbaZee

Well, Caaahh Aaaahhhg Neato!

Grinnin' from ear to ear. Nice.

Hey, at lest they didn't call him a human rights activist.

That's progress for the MSM.

Blah, I wasn't going to start drinking until after I gave Mom her gifts.
Oh,well.

re: #10 DesertSage Hey Sage! Good to see you out here so (relatively) early!
You just don't understand: every intelligent and highly trained military leader knows that when you have the upper hand, you declare victory and lay down your arms!

John Walker Lindh's long, dark journey

How an earnest American student of Islam became a fighter for the Taliban: An exclusive excerpt from the first biography of Lindh.

By Mark Kukis

Kukis is a thughugging POS

re: #17 The Other Les

Gravity does not suck.

But TIME does.

re: #23 pingjockey

You think gagneato is Mark Kukis, or they just may have the same buddies?

I just thought it was funny
I think there are many Kukis Fools and Cognitos

re: #29 BabbaZee
Ahhh sooo.

The Mahdi Army of Muqtada Al-Sadr has surrendered and laid down their arms

.

Charles, while the Time piece is hyperbole, I haven't seen anything suggesting that there was a "surrender" and general disarmament, either. Only a truce. Could be wrong.

re: #19 BabbaZee

MARK KUKIS

BLACKFIVE was all over this moron last year

Poor Mark Kukis, Time writer in Baghdad. He has a deadline to get his copy in so Time can kill a few hundred thousand trees spreading lies and defeatism. But he catches a lucky break when the news of 20 lovely decapitated bodies comes in. Oh Bliss, his editor will love this and it ties in with the overall Time stylebook requirement that any positive accomplishments in Iraq, must be offset by 4 times as many reports on bad news, real or fake but accurate. "Just follow the narrative son, you'll be fine."

re: #7 Sharmuta

When is a defeat not a defeat? When the msm says so!

Victory is written in the history books, not on the battlefield. The MSM knows this, so they chronicle the history they want to be written, knowing that many sloppy scholars will delve no deeper then glossy pages of their excretalble magazine.

re: #32 gman

Yea I saw that too

Mark Kukis, on right.

re: #25 mikeinmd

Hey, at lest they didn't call him a human rights activist.

That was just an over site.

That little mistake will be corrected in a later re-write.

Forgetting the political spin, are the TIME facts straight? A Sadr surrender (and it is a surrender) is HUGE.

The good guys have just been doing fantastic stuff and can now focus on the Special groups.

Nibras Kazimi at Talisman Gate hasn't reported on it yet. I'll keep my excitement down till he does.

re: #31 Occasional Reader

.

Charles, while the Time piece is hyperbole, I haven't seen anything suggesting that there was a "surrender" and general disarmament, either. Only a truce. Could be wrong.

You mean you didn't see all the press releases like this one on the MSM?

The Mahdi Army has been getting their asses handed to them day after day.

Do did he realllllly go, or didn't he?

"I am left with the feeling that perhaps it really isn't worth the risks," Mark Kukis, a freelance correspondent for United Press International, told the San Francisco Chronicle just days after the announcement of Pearl's death. Kukis said he'd canceled two reporting trips, including one to the area where American John Walker Lindh received religious training before joining the Taliban.

But Kukis adds that the risks come with the territory, and reporters can't do their jobs if they don't venture into places where they might be in danger. Everyone tries to use his or her best judgment, but in some cases, amenities like reaching your destination without a threat against your life can be difficult.

So?
Did you stay home and lie or did you go and fall in love?

While conducting research, Kukis achieved unparalleled access to major players in Lindh’s life. In Pakistan, Kukis found the militants from the jihadi group that trained with Lindh in a Pakistani camp. Kukis also conducted several rounds of interviews with Lindh’s friend who initially settled him in an Islamic boarding school, with Lindh’s instructor there, and with fellow pupils in the hardscrabble Pakistani village where he studied the Koran before journeying into Afghanistan. In Afghanistan, Kukis interviewed Taliban soldiers who fought at MazariSharif and General Dostum, warlord of the region. Exroommates and friends also contributed to Kukis’s research, resulting in the most thorough portrait available of the American Taliban.

re: #38 gman

You mean you didn't see all the press releases like this one on the MSM?

The Mahdi Army has been getting their asses handed to them day after day.

I totally agree with GMAN.

This is exactly what Malaki did in Basrah. He said 'truce' and then kept up the offensive. That guy is much shrewder than I gave him credit for a couple years ago.

HUDNA

HUDNA

HUDNA

KABOOM

re: #38 gman

You mean you didn't see all the press releases like this one on the MSM?

The Mahdi Army has been getting their asses handed to them day after day.

I agree. But that's not the same thing as a surrender and laying down of arms. What I've seen is news of a truce, which Mookie gladly accepted because his guys were losing. But his guys are still armed, as far as I know. If I'm wrong, I'd be absolutely delighted to hear it. (Although why Mookie is still stealing perfectly good oxygen is beyond me.)

re: #31 Occasional Reader Morning O.R. - I think you're correct.
However, according to TIME: "The fact that a leading figure in al-Sadr's ranks announced the deal and pointedly rejected the Iraqi government's key demand to disarm suggests that the cleric is still controlling the agenda tactically and politically despite the most serious challenge his power the Iraqi government could muster."
They clearly overstated things and by quite a lot;
the "despite the most serious challenge......" is manifestly wrong; the Iraqi Army and the US Army were breaking out of the outskirts of Sadr City and were about to wreak havoc on al-Sadr and his "army". Think, if you will, of Fallujah.
As I said upthread, you don't call for or accept a truce when you think you're winning.
And I, for one, am sorry that the Iraqi government may have also signed on to this "truce" (I say "may", because the Iraqi government had required that al-Sadr disband and disarm his "army" which he clearly didn't do).

Well, think about it. Time, NYT, LAT, etc. do consider surrender a victory..

re: #43 realwestYep, fuck the truce. Press on. If they surrender, fine. Disarm them. But if it is just a truce and not a surrender, the bastards are still armed and dangerous!

Spot the Trend, win a prize.

TIME Magazine circulation revenue:

2002   $320,192,166
2003   $318,164,851
2004   $313,865,425
2005   $311,723,292
2006   $203,637,856
2007   $180,335,470

[Source]

Apparently, Time's editorial board is French. Who knew?

re: #46 Opilio

Spot the Trend, win a prize.

TIME Magazine circulation revenue:

2002 %u2002 $320,192,166
2003 %u2002 $318,164,851
2004 %u2002 $313,865,425
2005 %u2002 $311,723,292
2006 %u2002 $203,637,856
2007 %u2002 $180,335,470

[Source]

Internet killed the magazine star.

re: #43 realwest

Fallujah is the wrong model. I believe Yon that Fallujah was a strategic mistake. Look what happened and is happening in Basrah as a better model.

Malaki is trying to reach a compromise with the less militant parts of JAM so he can crush the Special Groups. My take is that the Iraqi Army will not be withdrawing from Sadr City. They will keep a heavy presence. Since JAM is not supposed to be carrying weapons, the Iraqui Army will kill anyone who is. Malaki got what he needed in this negotiation.

re: #46 Opilio

Spot the Trend, win a prize.

TIME Magazine circulation revenue:

2002 %u2002 $320,192,166
2003 %u2002 $318,164,851
2004 %u2002 $313,865,425
2005 %u2002 $311,723,292
2006 %u2002 $203,637,856
2007 %u2002 $180,335,470

[Source]

Well, using Time magazine logic (surrender=victory) , I would say Time magazine is doing better than ever.

re: #50 gman

Here's to Time's winning all the way down.

re: #42 Occasional Reader

I agree. But that's not the same thing as a surrender and laying down of arms. What I've seen is news of a truce, which Mookie gladly accepted because his guys were losing. But his guys are still armed, as far as I know. If I'm wrong, I'd be absolutely delighted to hear it. (Although why Mookie is still stealing perfectly good oxygen is beyond me.)

You're correct. Here's a specific statement on "laying down arms" from the article.

In announcing the deal, al-Sadr aide Sheik Salah al-Obeidi said the agreement, "stipulates that the Mahdi Army will stop fighting in Sadr City and will stop displaying arms in public. In return, the government will stop random raids against al-Sadr followers and open all closed roads that lead to Sadr City."

Al-Obeidi, who issued a statement from the southern Iraqi city of Najaf, added: "This document does not call for disbanding al-Mahdi Army or laying down their arms."

It may be a step, but it's not a surrender. They are still an armed militia.

When will we learn? If terrorists are willing to declare a cease-fire, that's when you should turn up the heat even more, showing them that what they've seen to date is just a warm up.

This Al-Sadr primitive and the million slum-dwellers under his rule will now have time to regroup. It's not time to stop fighting, it's time to destroy them, each and every one of them, until they completely capitulate on our terms unconditionally.

They so love our enemies. Time is not only disgusting , but boreing.

re: #49 DeafDog Well I suggested Fallujah only because we "diddled around" for awhile before we went in in earnest and look at the result.
But you may be correct that Basra is a better example.
I think that what happens is this: we start an offensive for which the enemy is initially well prepard; we remain in place and come up with a much better tactical plan than we first went in with and then KABOOM - We win, they lose, BIG TIME.
And I think al-Sadr is smart enough to have recognized that AND to recognize that if he asked or told his "army" to lay down their weapons, he would no longer be, as O.R. said, stealing oxygen - if nothing else, the "Specials" will take care of that.
Iran has waaay too much invested in al-Sadr to allow him to lay down his arms.

I believe these left media types know we will win but they believe the world can only be safe if america suffers a defeat. they are not just traitors to the U.S. they are traitors to western civilization.

they would undo Leonidas sacrifice in Thermopylae.

And when U.S. and Iraqi troops tried to press into Sadr City to chase the militia's mortar men and rocketeers, they barely managed to establish a foothold on the southern edge of the neighborhood before the situation stalemated.

This is bullshit. It's purely for political reasons that they do not push into the city. Here's an article from, of all places, the LA Times that even explains what is going on.

re: #53 mfarmer1

I agree 100%. Imagine if we took the current approach with the Japanese in WW2. We'd still be fighting them.

re: #58 paradox42

I agree 100%. Imagine if we took the current approach with the Japanese in WW2. We'd still be fighting them.

Or more likely, those of us on the west coast lucky enough to survive, would be speaking Japanese.

Al-Sadr the bearded teenager runs away because he's about to be wacked and Time does the PR work. I get it.

US could have taken him out years ago. We should have. The real civil war in Iraq will be between Shiites in the south, not between Sunni and Shiites.

Some folks are saying that the Hezbo moves in Lebanon are a response to our defeating Mookie.

re: #62 RememberSekhmet?

Some folks are saying that the Hezbo moves in Lebanon are a response to our defeating Mookie.

The game is ever moving. Nothing stands still.

re: #62 RememberSekhmet? Sorry, I don't understand that - you mean that they're trying to distract us from al-Sadr?!

General Hallack asks newly appointed commander: "What are your intentions?"
Gen. Grant, "I intend to lead the Army Potomac across the Rappahannack, there to engage the Army of Northern Virgina, and to engage it continously until it is surrendered or destroyed."
(To bring it up to date - Substitute names and geography as necessary.)
Admonition to the Taliban in Afganistan regarding the Marines:
You can't beat them and they wont go away ... Your move.

re: #46 Opilio

Spot the Trend, win a prize.

TIME Magazine circulation revenue:

2002 %u2002 $320,192,166
2003 %u2002 $318,164,851
2004 %u2002 $313,865,425
2005 %u2002 $311,723,292
2006 %u2002 $203,637,856
2007 %u2002 $180,335,470

[Source]

They'll claim the reason for the financial downtrend is due to the high price of oil and food. Maybe even the high price for cutting down trees will take some of the blame.

I have a novel idea for them... try using recycled toilet paper. Their magazine is nothing but crap anyway and has been for several years.

re: #53 mfarmer1

When will we learn? If terrorists are willing to declare a cease-fire, that's when you should turn up the heat even more, showing them that what they've seen to date is just a warm up.

This Al-Sadr primitive and the million slum-dwellers under his rule will now have time to regroup. It's not time to stop fighting, it's time to destroy them, each and every one of them, until they completely capitulate on our terms unconditionally.

To hell with 'King's X' style of warfare!

As far as I can read the remnants of the 'Mahdi Army' are being hunted down daily.

/Definitely not a growth organization...

Time Magazine might be good for taking with one into the bathroom, for use after completing a movement, but not much else.

Even though we know how loaded this article is, the vast majority of MSNBC-Nation eat this up and repeat it at cocktail parties and accept it as gospel. In such a scenario, explaining their inaccuracy of Kukis'
story would take too long than one drink and one wonton appetizer lasts. Thus, the libs rule the dinner party circuit - USA Today depth combined with passionate BDS.

Time Magazine, July 4, 1963

"The Army of Northern Virginia scored a crushing victory in a small town called Gettysburg"

Operations continue in Sadr City
By Bill Roggio

...

re: #72 Dar ul Harbarian

Operations continue in Sadr City
By Bill Roggio

Nice find. It states 17 Mahdi terrorists have been killed in just the last 24 hours. Sadr cannot keep sustaining these losses.

US Army air assets have relentlessly pursued the Mahdi Army in and around Sadr City. "To date, 57 rocket rails and mortars have been destroyed and 150 Special Groups Criminals killed," Milano said.

The Mahdi Army has taken heavy casualties in Sadr City and the surrounding neighborhoods since the fighting began on March 25. A total of 562 Mahdi Army fighters have been confirmed killed in and around Sadr City since March 25, according to numbers compiled by The Long War Journal. More than one-quarter of the Mahdi Army fighters killed have been killed via the air.

I say this "cease-fire" is just a hudna, where Muq-Duck is trying to get reinforcements and more-better-bigger weapons from Ahmaluvjihad into Sadr City. In the interim, he'll try to sneak the lieutenants he has there into "peaceful" areas where they can start a surprise insurrection when things heat up again. The Iraqis are out-gunned and out-motivated, so they're happy to take a break. Does the US think it's a REAL cease-fire?

The agreement "stipulates the Mahdi Army will stop fighting in Sadr City and will stop displaying arms in public. In return, the government will stop random raids against al-Sadr followers and open all closed roads that lead to Sadr City .... This document does not call for disbanding al-Mahdi Army or laying down their arms."

Wasn't it Coca-Cola? ... "the pause that refreshes" ? Sadr's guys are having a Coke break, that's all.

By my own admittedly rough estimate, the Sadr militia has lost somewhere around 5,000 of its "fighters" killed, captured, or wounded since March 25th.

The Sadr militia (AKA the Mahdi Army) had been estimated at around 50-60,000 armed men prior to March.

10% casualties, loss of control over Basrah, loss of control over Sadr City, loss of all of their heavy weapons, exposure of the Iranian rat lines into Iraq, their nominal leader hiding in Iran...

As Roggio mentions, the so-called "Special Groups" are led by Iranians and trained by HizbAllah. Those "Special Groups" are also the only elements of the Mahdi Army to have heavy weapons, notably the Iranian made rockets and Chinese made 120mm mortars that were briefly used to shell the Green Zone.

It should also be mentioned that the only thing of note that the Special Groups most recent shelling of the Green Zone managed to hit was the BBC headquarters.

WHOOPS,
R

Right, just like Poland spanked Hitler in '39. Maybe this is an example of Time Magazine trying to be on the cutting edge of analysis? If so, they missed the edge by about 3 miles. Every time Sadr does a cease fire, it is because he fears loss of combat power and/or he is homesick and heading back to Iran.

re: #75 B_Dix

Wasn't it Coca-Cola? ... "the pause that refreshes" ? Sadr's guys are having a Coke break, that's all.

You mean "whatever's left of Sadr's guys" are having a coke break.

Al-Sadr's aide.....announced the cease fire........
any reporters in Iran quoting 'the man' on this turn of events or is he to busy studying for a final exam ?

re: #76 Render

By my own admittedly rough estimate, the Sadr militia has lost somewhere around 5,000 of its "fighters" killed, captured, or wounded since March 25th.

The Sadr militia (AKA the Mahdi Army) had been estimated at around 50-60,000 armed men prior to March.

10% casualties, loss of control over Basrah, loss of control over Sadr City, loss of all of their heavy weapons, exposure of the Iranian rat lines into Iraq, their nominal leader hiding in Iran...

As Roggio mentions, the so-called "Special Groups" are led by Iranians and trained by HizbAllah. Those "Special Groups" are also the only elements of the Mahdi Army to have heavy weapons, notably the Iranian made rockets and Chinese made 120mm mortars that were briefly used to shell the Green Zone.

It should also be mentioned that the only thing of note that the Special Groups most recent shelling of the Green Zone managed to hit was the BBC headquarters.

WHOOPS,
R

I hope the Iraquis are paying attention to what's going on in Lebanon. They'll see their future, if Iran is allowed to continue.

Gee even Sadr lasted longer than the French after the Nazi invasion.
But if Sadr has more 'victories' like the one in Sadr City, he will have to apply for permanent Iranian citizenship, and his followers will have to buy their own burial plots.

Thanks to gman and Babbazee for those links about the author! And that link to the Roggio article is most welcome, too.

I don't have anything concrete to add, except that I grew up reading Time. Somewhere around 1995 (I think) they started becoming more like Newsweek - lots more graphics, mini-articles, cartoons, expanded entertainment coverage. I felt dumber reading it, esp. as they brought in Calvin Trillin from The Nation (I was 15 at the time, I had no clue what The Nation was) and they, like him, sounded smart but in this snide way that wasn't really arguing anything or informing me.

So I started reading National Review, which cared to inform me of things. Yeah, they disagreed with Edward Said, but they reviewed his book and his legacy at that time. They reviewed movies, via John Simon, that would probably have been far too artsy for Time's crowd. They talked about things that happened in British politics via John O'Sullivan and John Derbyshire and it was interesting hearing about another country from citizens of that country.

I don't know how to convince people that the MSM is total garbage. My Dad still reads Time and think it's the greatest thing ever. I can safely say that Jon Stewart's "you're hurting America" lament most certainly applies to Time, which I was lucky enough to throw aside in my teenage years.

re: #82 akarra

Your journey from MSM to more critical sources of news parallels mine and I think many others. A lot of people are used to getting their news the old fashioned way and haven't made the transition to blogs yet. I think what we do here will be exponentially more important in the coming years. I have tried to get some of my own family members tuned into this site, but for them it is still too big of a gap. It will come with time.

I can just see Time's idea of an article on Iraq if Obama gets eleceted.

We have recieved word that just a week after President Barack Obama was sworn in the situation in Iraq has improved. You can now see Sunni, Shite & Kurd skipping down by the river of chocolate, while rainbows are seen everywhere and everyone in Iraq is happier than they have ever been. There is even celebratory fire as Al Sadr leads his Iranian counterparts around Baghdad in a Celebration.

Of course the real story would be more like this:

As President Obama continues to withdraw our forces at a breathtaking pace the dead, both of Iraqi civiliians and US Military, grows at record numbers as Iranian forces seize control of more terrority inside Baghdad massacaring every non Shite in site and our troops have been ordered not to return fire.

This isn't free speech, it's enemy propaganda during a time of war.

Why do we tolerate this? When are we going to enforce the part of the Oath of Enlistment and Office dealing with "...ALL enemies, foreign and DOMESTIC..."?