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Rest in Peace, Irena Sendler

Tue, May 13, 2008 at 1:42:22 pm PDT

One of the true heroines of our time, a woman who saved thousands of Jewish children from the Nazi Holocaust, Irena Sendler has died at the age of 98.

What she witnessed haunted her to the end of her life. Rest in peace, Irena.

The petite woman with the black bonnet sat on a reclining chair in a central Warsaw nursing home.

The 94-year-old could not get the image of the skeletally thin children lying in the street of the Warsaw Ghetto, meekly whispering “bread,” out of her mind.

It was 2004, nearly six decades after World War II, but the horrors of the Holocaust were still alive for Irena Sendler.

Sendler, who, with a group of friends, is credited with sneaking 2,500 Jewish children out of the ghetto, died on Monday in a Polish hospital from pneumonia. She was 98.

Sendler was one of the first to be awarded Yad Vashem’s highest honor - she was declared a Righteous Gentile in 1965 for risking her life to save Jews during the Shoah - but it was only in her golden years that she received recognition from the Polish government, which, together with Holocaust survivor groups, nominated her for the Nobel Prize two years ago, after decades in which Communist governments frowned on her heroic actions.

Sendler’s story - and her connections with the Jewish community - began on the outskirts of Warsaw, where as a young girl she was taught at home that people are either good or bad, and should not be judged based on race, religion or nationality, she recounted in the 2004 interview with The Jerusalem Post.

“Whatever I did had its roots in my family home,” Sendler said, as she told her story through an interpreter.

When Germany invaded Poland in the fall of 1939, Sendler was just shy of her 30th birthday.

“The whole of Poland was drowning in blood, but the Jewish nation was suffering the most, with the Jewish children the most vulnerable,” she recalled.

Sendler and a group of friends in the Warsaw municipality’s social welfare department started producing false documents to provide Jews in the ghetto with monetary assistance that the Germans had cut off.

After 1940 the ghetto was closed off to non-Jews, and Sendler and her friends could not get in to distribute the funds.

She soon learned that one sanitation company was still allowed into the ghetto. Sendler got the Polish director of the service to employ her and 10 friends so they could continue helping Jews.

For the next two years, dressed as nurses, Sendler and her friends carried food, money, and medicine hidden in their dresses to ghetto residents. As conditions deteriorated, and the liquidation of ghetto began, Sendler came to the realization that the only chance for the children to survive was to escape.

Also see:
Life in a Jar: The Irena Sendler Project

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361 comments

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1 bosforus  Tue, May 13, 2008 1:43:40pm

Yup, Al Gore definitely deserved to win a nobel peace prize over this hero.

2 storagemanager  Tue, May 13, 2008 1:43:46pm

A true hero..the world needs more like her.

3 mama winger  Tue, May 13, 2008 1:43:49pm

Rest in Peace.

She will. She can.

4 loppyd  Tue, May 13, 2008 1:44:29pm

May she rest in peace....

5 Occasional Reader  Tue, May 13, 2008 1:45:11pm

Her name should be a household word.

Rest in peace.

6 WriterMom  Tue, May 13, 2008 1:45:17pm

Thanks for posting this Charles. May her memory be a blessing. A truly righteous woman.

7 Alouette  Tue, May 13, 2008 1:45:22pm

re: #1 bosforus

Yup, Al Gore definitely deserved to win a nobel peace prize over this hero.

She has received a noble prize of eternal peace.

8 DesertSage  Tue, May 13, 2008 1:45:37pm

Wow, what a remarkable woman.
RIP Irene.

9 coquimbojoe  Tue, May 13, 2008 1:45:48pm

I read this the other day and am still amazed at her bravery and humility.

10 Occasional Reader  Tue, May 13, 2008 1:46:57pm

re: #1 bosforus

Yup, Al Gore definitely deserved to win a nobel peace prize over this hero.

Given the way that thing has gone lately, perhaps we should be grateful that Irene Sendler's name wasn't besmirched with a Nobel Peace Prize.

11 Truck Monkey  Tue, May 13, 2008 1:47:32pm

May she rest in peace.

12 Fat Jolly Penguin  Tue, May 13, 2008 1:48:16pm

re: #10 Occasional Reader

Given the way that thing has gone lately, perhaps we should be grateful that Irene Sendler's name wasn't besmirched with a Nobel Peace Prize.

GMTA. I was about to say the same thing.

13 loppyd  Tue, May 13, 2008 1:48:24pm

re: #10 Occasional Reader

Given the way that thing has gone lately, perhaps we should be grateful that Irene Sendler's name wasn't besmirched with a Nobel Peace Prize.

She did what she did because it was just and right.

He does what he does because he craves attention and adoration.

14 WrathofG-d  Tue, May 13, 2008 1:48:47pm

As Dennis Prager stated this morning (I paraphrase) How often it is that the famous today are not important and the important not famous!

This woman deserved a Nobel Prize, and the celebrity and accolades inappropriately given instead to Paris Hilton et al.

I not only mourn her death, but celebrate her life!

.

15 alegrias  Tue, May 13, 2008 1:48:47pm

She risked her life so others might live.
We said NEVER AGAIN would we let people do this to others.
60 some years later, Obama hasn't got the guts to uphold this promise.

If you won't defend your country,
how can you enforce "Never Again"?

16 zombie  Tue, May 13, 2008 1:49:11pm

re: #1 bosforus

Yup, Al Gore definitely deserved to win a nobel peace prize over this hero.

But he dressed up as a messiah and smuggled in some Global Cooling on his private jet! So he's just as admirable as her, really.

17 zombie  Tue, May 13, 2008 1:49:11pm

re: #1 bosforus

Yup, Al Gore definitely deserved to win a nobel peace prize over this hero.

But he dressed up as a messiah and smuggled in some Global Cooling on his private jet! So he's just as admirable as her, really.

18 bosforus  Tue, May 13, 2008 1:49:42pm

re: #10 Occasional Reader

Given the way that thing has gone lately, perhaps we should be grateful that Irene Sendler's name wasn't besmirched with a Nobel Peace Prize.

Perhaps there's more truth than sarcasm in my comment then. I left it uncapitalized on purpose. It's just so frustrating that people like she get overlooked by people like Gore.

19 Iron Fist  Tue, May 13, 2008 1:50:09pm

If the Holocaust proved beyond doubt that there is a Devil in Creation, then perhaps this woman's actions serve to prove that there also is a God.

20 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Tue, May 13, 2008 1:50:24pm
21 coquimbojoe  Tue, May 13, 2008 1:50:27pm

re: #10 Occasional Reader

Given the way that thing has gone lately, perhaps we should be grateful that Irene Sendler's name wasn't besmirched with a Nobel Peace Prize.

Good point, but sad. But good.

22 mama winger  Tue, May 13, 2008 1:50:33pm

Heaven's Hall of Fame.

23 loppyd  Tue, May 13, 2008 1:50:44pm

re: #19 Iron Fist

If the Holocaust proved beyond doubt that there is a Devil in Creation, then perhaps this woman's actions serve to prove that there also is a God.

Amen.

24 WriterMom  Tue, May 13, 2008 1:51:03pm

The Nobel prize is a joke. It's a good thing she didn't get it. To have this woman get an award that Arafat received would cheapen her legacy.

25 WriterMom  Tue, May 13, 2008 1:51:45pm

re: #10 Occasional Reader

You said it better, but that's exactly what I was thinking.

26 Creeping Eruption  Tue, May 13, 2008 1:51:51pm

re: #14 WrathofG-d

As Dennis Prager stated this morning (I paraphrase) How often it is that the famous today are not important and the important not famous!

This woman deserved a Nobel Prize, and the celebrity and accolades inappropriately given instead to Paris Hilton et al.

I not only mourn her death, but celebrate her life!

.

Reminds me of when Mother Theresa died the same time as Princess Dianna. Regardless of what good Dianna may have done, the world promptly forgot Mother Theresa and promptly forgot to recognize her works bacause of the glare of the world spotlight on Dianna. It was a Shame.

27 Silhouette  Tue, May 13, 2008 1:52:35pm

One person can do much. We must never say 'I am only one person.'

28 storagemanager  Tue, May 13, 2008 1:52:47pm

Her reward will be far greater..then any this world could offer.

29 REDSTATE  Tue, May 13, 2008 1:53:45pm

That's a true heroine - an example for the rest of the human race.

There is no service higher than to willingly risk your own life to help - and in this case to save the lives - of the most helpless.

May Almighty God grant you His Peace, Irena as you greet him in Heaven this day!

30 WrathofG-d  Tue, May 13, 2008 1:53:50pm

re: #26 Creeping Eruption

An excellent comparison. All of this just goes to show where we are as a society.

31 Conservative in Liberal Hands  Tue, May 13, 2008 1:54:06pm

We should all strive to keep her in our thoughts. As they say "She of blessed memory"...

Hear O Israel, the Lord our G-d, the Lord is One.
Blessed is His name, whose glorious kingdom is forever and ever.
Amen!

32 Creeping Eruption  Tue, May 13, 2008 1:54:19pm

re: #30 WrathofG-d

An excellent comparison. All of this just goes to show where we are as a society.

and where we need to be.

33 Dianna  Tue, May 13, 2008 1:55:16pm

re: #10 Occasional Reader

I was thinking that.

34 MilkOfMalfeasance  Tue, May 13, 2008 1:55:18pm

I wonder how many people alive today are direct decedents of the children she saved? Thousands? Tens of thousands? Amazing how one person can do so much. May she be properly remembered. G-d Speed Ms. Sendler.

35 bosforus  Tue, May 13, 2008 1:55:20pm

The perfect example of the story familiar to many.

Once a man was walking along a beach. The sun was shining and it was a beautiful day. Off in the distance he could see a person going back and forth between the surf's edge and and the beach. Back and forth this person went. As the man approached he could see that there were hundreds of starfish stranded on the sand as the result of the natural action of the tide.

The man was stuck by the the apparent futility of the task. There were far too many starfish. Many of them were sure to perish. As he approached the person continued the task of picking up starfish one by one and throwing them into the surf.

As he came up to the person he said, "You must be crazy. There are thousands of miles of beach covered with starfish. You can't possibly make a difference." The person looked at the man. He then stooped down and pick up one more starfish and threw it back into the ocean. He turned back to the man and said, "Made a difference to that one."

36 zombie  Tue, May 13, 2008 1:56:23pm

How'd that happen? #16 and #17 are the same comment at the same moment.

It wasn't me, I swear!

37 Creeping Eruption  Tue, May 13, 2008 1:56:51pm

re: #36 zombie

How'd that happen? #16 and #17 are the same comment at the same moment.

It wasn't me, I swear!

Angels?

38 MilkOfMalfeasance  Tue, May 13, 2008 1:57:01pm

re: #36 zombie

Are you a Gemini by chance?

39 mikalm  Tue, May 13, 2008 1:57:04pm

Another Pole who stood for righteousness and humanity in the face of the Nazi horror, like one of my favorite Saints, Maximilian Kolbe. Rest in peace, Madame Sendler -- you have more than earned your place amongst the heroes of the Holocaust.

40 Fat Jolly Penguin  Tue, May 13, 2008 1:57:07pm

re: #36 zombie

How'd that happen? #16 and #17 are the same comment at the same moment.

It wasn't me, I swear!

One of Charles's hamsters hiccuped.

41 gop_patriot  Tue, May 13, 2008 1:57:52pm

re: #36 zombie

I was just about to ask the same thing, how did that happen? Usually even if you accidentally hit the "post" button twice quickly, it says "duplicate comment". Hmmm.

42 Slumbering Behemoth  Tue, May 13, 2008 1:58:04pm

There was a video clip on the web of her in an impromptu interview about her nomination for the npp (before a winner was announced) that was rather funny.

For the life of me I can't seem to find it now.

43 Honorary Yooper  Tue, May 13, 2008 1:58:59pm

re: #36 zombie

How'd that happen? #16 and #17 are the same comment at the same moment.

It wasn't me, I swear!

DO NOT MENTION COMMENT 17!

44 Conservative in Liberal Hands  Tue, May 13, 2008 1:59:56pm

re: #36 zombie

How'd that happen? #16 and #17 are the same comment at the same moment.

It wasn't me, I swear!

Maybe Stinky likes it? He likes it! He likes it!

45 gop_patriot  Tue, May 13, 2008 1:59:57pm

What an amazing woman. Thank you, Irena Sendler, for doing the right thing, regardless of the personal risk. The worlds needs more people like this...

46 dr.mister  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:00:12pm

Yit-gadal v'yit-kadash sh'may raba...

47 goddessoftheclassroom  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:00:13pm

The final line of the article:

"I get mad when someone calls me a hero," she said at the end of an emotional interview, her face suddenly glowing. "I did a normal thing."

This brought tears to my eyes--to her, courage ad justice are "normal."

I'm also saying a prayer for those parents who let her take their children.

48 zmdavid  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:00:22pm

re: #36 zombie

How'd that happen? #16 and #17 are the same comment at the same moment.

It wasn't me, I swear!

Transporter accident.

49 Conservative in Liberal Hands  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:00:30pm

re: #46 dr.mister

Yit-gadal v'yit-kadash sh'may raba...

AMEN!

50 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:00:45pm
51 mama winger  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:01:49pm

re: #50 buzzsawmonkey

Lovely.

52 goddessoftheclassroom  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:02:00pm

re: #40 Fat Jolly Penguin

One of Charles's hamsters hiccuped.

[Link: icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com...]

53 WrathofG-d  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:02:03pm
54 Occasional Reader  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:02:57pm

re: #48 zmdavid

Transporter accident.

That explains why comment #17 has a goatee.

55 loppyd  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:03:16pm

re: #53 WrathofG-d

ot: my favorite WW2 Warsaw resident.

Thank you for the link.

I learn so much from you guys!

56 maddogg  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:03:27pm

This woman of courage and moral conviction can go to her maker with a clear conscience, unlike the people who determine who gets a Nobel Peace Prize, who deserve to be loaded up on a rail along with that bloated windbag Goricle and ridden into a sea of infamy. How the hell do these creatures sleep at night, unless they have the conscience of Nazis themselves.

This lady had sand, Algore is a snake oil hawker.

57 bosforus  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:03:43pm

I hate it when I almost fall out of my swivel chair because my foot decides to kick the plastic switch beneath.

58 Olderthandirt  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:04:10pm

God bless Irena! May her soul always be at peace! She was righteous indeed!

59 unrealizedviewpoint  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:04:43pm

re: #10 Occasional Reader

Given the way that thing has gone lately, perhaps we should be grateful that Irene Sendler's name wasn't besmirched with a Nobel Peace Prize.

No offense to zombie comment #17, but if a comment needs repeating this #10, is the one.

60 mama winger  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:04:58pm

Do you think the children she saved know the circumstances, and who she was, and that she is gone now?

61 venezuela lover  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:05:09pm

God Bless Irena Sendler, a role model for all people.

62 JammieWearingFool  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:05:50pm

To their everlasting disgrace, the Nobel boobs gave Algore the peace prize over this heroic woman.

63 gman  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:06:25pm

What a beautiful person. What an example for all of us.

64 mama winger  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:07:09pm

Irena is a very pretty name.

65 bosforus  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:07:30pm

re: #36 zombie

How'd that happen? #16 and #17 are the same comment at the same moment.

It wasn't me, I swear!

Well, since Gore invented the internet, he's probably programmed a way for comments that praise him to appear 2x.

66 unrealizedviewpoint  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:07:31pm

re: #62 JammieWearingFool

To their everlasting disgrace, the Nobel boobs gave Algore the peace prize over this heroic woman.

She'd probably would have donated the money to some Jewish cause. They couldn't have that.

67 WriterMom  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:07:35pm
68 Occasional Reader  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:07:46pm

Stranger than fiction: Another declared "Righteous Gentile" was Hans von Dohnayi, a member of German military counterintelligence during the war.

69 Ben Hur  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:07:56pm

The worst case of False Memory Syndrome ever documented.

None of this happened because the Holocaust never happened.

Must be a Zionist Agent serving the Elders til her last breath.

70 redheadredstate  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:08:27pm

This makes me think of the scripture which states that "the last shall be first, the first shall be last" Maybe Irena Sendler didn't get the recognition she deserved in this life and Algore did but I would imagine that the reverse will be true in heaven. Madam Sendler I'm sure was welcomed to heaven with fanfare and much celebration...Algore, on the other hand better get himself some asbestos underwear!

71 WrathofG-d  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:08:28pm
72 JammieWearingFool  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:08:38pm

re: #36 zombie

How'd that happen? #16 and #17 are the same comment at the same moment.

It wasn't me, I swear!

Strange. I once said the same thing simultaneously, but it was some mindmeld with another lizard.

73 Pvt Bin Jammin  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:09:33pm

Rest in Peace, Irena Sendler. Thank you for all that you did.

74 Ward Cleaver  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:09:45pm

Thanks for putting this thread up, Charles. God rest her soul.

75 WrathofG-d  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:09:46pm

re: #69 Ben Hur

TAKE THIS "BEN HUR"

76 Conservative in Liberal Hands  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:09:59pm

I think the real role model is that she was taught and believed that "people are either good or bad, and should not be judged based on race, religion or nationality." Every time I hear of some ROPTM POS, I remind myself that there must be Followers of Allah who value Life and who hate those who have perverted and twisted Islam.

77 alegrias  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:10:48pm

re: #45 gop_patriot

What an amazing woman. Thank you, Irena Sendler, for doing the right thing, regardless of the personal risk. The worlds needs more people like this...

* * *
There are many people like Saintly Irena Sendler. We could be legion.

For example, our troops who go into harms way daily, fighting beheaders & murderous radicals, so others might live.

What we need are more people willing to stand up to those who would sell us out the beheaders & radicals.

Go, West Virginians for freedom & Never Again

78 mama winger  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:11:06pm

re: #68 Occasional Reader

Stranger than fiction: Another declared "Righteous Gentile" was Hans von Dohnayi, a member of German military counterintelligence during the war.

Ahhh, I see he was a companion of Dietrich Bonhoeffer.

79 goddessoftheclassroom  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:11:51pm

re: #67 WriterMom

Life in A Jar, the Irene Sendler story.

Wow.

Pass me a Kleenex, please.

80 mama winger  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:12:17pm

re: #79 goddessoftheclassroom

Wow.

Pass me a Kleenex, please.

Very powerful, isn't it?

81 Ben Hur  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:12:29pm

re: #75 WrathofG-d

TAKE THIS "BEN HUR"

VOLCANO, Wrath.

It was a Tsunami caused by a volcano by Cyprus!

GAAAAAHHHHH!

82 gop_patriot  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:12:37pm

re: #71 WrathofG-d

B'H she was not alone.

This one is amazing- thank you for the link, Wrath.

83 mama winger  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:13:45pm

re: #71 WrathofG-d

B'H she was not alone.

Thank you. I have bookmarked it.

84 Cygnus  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:14:05pm

re: #48 zmdavid

Transporter accident.

I feel a disturbance in the Force.

85 jamgarr  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:14:53pm

May flights of angels sing you to your rest

86 Creeping Eruption  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:15:06pm
87 alegrias  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:15:19pm

re: #62 JammieWearingFool

To their everlasting disgrace, the Nobel boobs gave Algore the peace prize over this heroic woman.

* * *
Today's Peace Prize means the complete opposite.
Just like 60 year ago the UN celebrated Israel's founding, today they work against it.

Ms. Sendler didn't need a cheap debased false peace prize.

88 Fat Jolly Penguin  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:15:21pm

re: #84 Cygnus

I feel a disturbance in the Force.

The wormhole activated at the exact second of a solar flare on the other side of the galaxy.

89 WrathofG-d  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:15:28pm

re: #81 Ben Hur

Yea whatever, you Exodus denier!

90 JammieWearingFool  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:15:43pm

I didn't want to link this as a spinoff since it's a compilation of Sendler items, as well as some on Nicholas Winton, who was also a Peace Prize candidate.

All from Radical Ron from today and last fall.

91 loppyd  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:15:52pm

re: #69 Ben Hur

Dinner Jacket, is that you?

92 Cygnus  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:15:54pm

re: #64 mama winger

Irena is a very pretty name.

Irene means 'peace' in Greek, doesn't it?

93 Shug  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:16:05pm

Irene was welcomed into heaven by the laughter and smiling faces of thousands of friendly faces, many of whom she saved.

A most deserved eternal reward

94 WrathofG-d  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:16:54pm
95 goddessoftheclassroom  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:17:04pm

re: #93 Shug

Irene was welcomed into heaven by the laughter and smiling faces of thousands of friendly faces, many of whom she saved.

A most deserved eternal reward

And whose children she saved.

96 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:17:17pm
97 jamgarr  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:17:44pm

re: #96 buzzsawmonkey

It is the Ignoble Putz Prize.


LOL!

98 EC Marm  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:18:29pm

She risked her life. That simple statement doesn't begin to put enough weight on what she did. People were shot and killed every day in Warsaw for the simplest of infractions. If a young boy passed a German without removing his cap he would be shot. Just to make an example of him. While the cattle cars filled with Jews.
She risked her life every day, for years. Until Warsaw was burned out and in ashes and no life remained.

99 Occasional Reader  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:19:31pm

re: #96 buzzsawmonkey

"Ignoble" is such a great word. We need to remember to use it.

100 goddessoftheclassroom  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:20:01pm

re: #98 EC Marm

She risked her life. That simple statement doesn't begin to put enough weight on what she did. People were shot and killed every day in Warsaw for the simplest of infractions. If a young boy passed a German without removing his cap he would be shot. Just to make an example of him. While the cattle cars filled with Jews.
She risked her life every day, for years. Until Warsaw was burned out and in ashes and no life remained.

And even under torture and real threat of execution, she did not betray those she saved.

101 WrathofG-d  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:20:52pm

Warsaw Ghetto Uprising (we weren't all led like sheep to the slaughter)

102 jamgarr  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:21:12pm

re: #99 Occasional Reader

"Ignoble" is such a great word. We need to remember to use it.


Chief among the words I find hard to pronounce are:

Ignominy
Calumny
Hegemony
and Afanaticaldevotiontothepope

103 KSK  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:21:30pm

To Save One Person is to Save the World.
She saved a thousand worlds.

104 loppyd  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:21:44pm

Well it's that time, Lizard Nation...

Time to go home and see the world of hurt Hillary is going to put on Obama (the friend of Israel and don't you dare say otherwise) in WV.

Hope everyone has a good evening.

105 Cygnus  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:21:49pm

re: #96 buzzsawmonkey

It is the Ignoble Putz Prize.

Or the Even Worse P*ss Prize.

106 redheadredstate  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:21:57pm

How brave that after saving 400 Jewish children and being tortured she went underground and went on to save 2,100 more! I had never heard of her before this day and I'm sorry I didn't. Where's her Hollywood movie? They can do Schindler's List but leave her story untouched? And how brave of the families of the children she saved. Because of their sacrifice their children and children's children live.

107 alegrias  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:22:04pm

Remember folks trying to sneak in food & aid to suffering Burmese imprisoned in their own country by their own people.

When will people of good will rise up against oppressors? It won't be Obama delivering freedom.

108 mapchic  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:22:19pm

Her story is amazing. It should be taught in schools as an example of how one person with dedication and strength of will can do good.

I point to her and St. Maxamilion Kolbe when idiots say that all Catholics or all Poles were evil and cooperated with the holocaust.

In the very worst of times it is possible for the very best in humanity to shine through. Irena Sendler was a representative of the best in humanity.

109 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:22:29pm
110 EC Marm  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:22:31pm

re: #100 goddessoftheclassroom

And even under torture and real threat of execution, she did not betray those she saved.


I you haven't read the book, or seen the movie (which I haven't but now intend to rent) "The Pianist" is quite a tale of life in Warsaw for those years.

111 experiencedtraveller  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:22:33pm

Where is the premier website for holocaust studies?

112 rawmuse  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:22:44pm

Rest in Peace, good and noble servant of God and humanity.

113 infidelia  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:22:55pm

re: #104 loppyd

Well it's that time, Lizard Nation...

Time to go home and see the world of hurt Hillary is going to put on Obama (the friend of Israel and don't you dare say otherwise) in WV.

Hope everyone has a good evening.

I'm heading out to see Iron Man. Missed it last night. Have a good one!

114 jamgarr  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:23:46pm

re: #109 buzzsawmonkey

You have a problem ordering Ignominy Grits?


Waitress: Hominy grits?
Customer: How many ya' got?

115 Cognito  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:24:12pm

re: #111 experiencedtraveller

Where is the premier website for holocaust studies?

Here's a good place to start:

http://www.ushmm.org/

116 Occasional Reader  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:25:04pm

re: #87 alegrias

Today's Peace Prize means the complete opposite.

Oh, come now... I mean, surely they wouldn't, for example, award the Prize to someone who claims that HIV was created as a biological weapon, would they?

God Bless the Nobel Peace Prize Committee? No... [you know the rest]

117 WrathofG-d  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:25:15pm

re: #111 experiencedtraveller

Many options. Israel's Yad Vashem is one.

118 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:25:23pm
119 goddessoftheclassroom  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:26:02pm

re: #110 EC Marm

I you haven't read the book, or seen the movie (which I haven't but now intend to rent) "The Pianist" is quite a tale of life in Warsaw for those years.

Yes, I saw it--amazing.

I have many books as resources for the Holocaust unit I used to teach, In one of them is a story of a woman just walking down the street when a Jewish woman said to a Nazi soldier, "No, it's not my baby--it's hers," and she thrust hew own baby into the stranger's arms,

120 Fat Jolly Penguin  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:26:31pm

re: #111 experiencedtraveller

Where is the premier website for holocaust studies?

A good one is Yad Vashem.

121 Fat Jolly Penguin  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:26:43pm

re: #117 WrathofG-d

Many options. Israel's Yad Vashem is one.

Oops. GMTA!

122 Amy  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:27:18pm

May she rest in peace and her memory be as a blessing. She is like other Righteous Among the Nations - she saw what she did as nothing special and only grieved that she could not have done more. I am glad that she was blessed with a long life and a peaceful death.

123 Ward Cleaver  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:28:47pm

re: #79 goddessoftheclassroom

Wow.

Pass me a Kleenex, please.

I browsed through that Web site (the Turner Foundation), and read the biography of Harry M. Turner. More good stories there.

124 maddogg  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:30:50pm

re: #96 buzzsawmonkey

It is the Ignoble Putz Prize.


You are certainly kinder than I.

125 jcm  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:31:20pm

re: #101 WrathofG-d

Warsaw Ghetto Uprising (we weren't all led like sheep to the slaughter)

One of the great, noble events in all of history.

126 EC Marm  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:31:49pm

re: #108 mapchic


I point to her and St. Maxamilion Kolbe when idiots say that all Catholics or all Poles were evil and cooperated with the holocaust.


There was even a journalist that complied a series of lists with hundreds of names of Czechoslovakian Jews captured by the Nazis in Italy who he helped with money, clothing, medicines and eventually escape from their captors.
How things change.

127 JHW  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:32:19pm

re: #111 experiencedtraveller

Also try this one; The Nizkor Project

128 wahabicorridor  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:32:30pm

I hope bigel sees this.

Often I get into 'discussions' with Europeans who want to condemn every Pole and every German in perpetuity. I'm having one now, actually.

Yitzhak Zuckerman was the last commander of the Jewish Fighting Organization, which led the uprising in the Warsaw ghetto. His underground code name was ‘Antak’.

Originally from Vilna, he made it to Palestine in 1947 after spending some years in post-war Europe smuggling other Jews there. As he was dying from cancer, he was persuaded to dictate his memoirs which were published originally in Hebrew as “Those Seven Years: 1939-1946”. The English language edition is titled “A Surplus of Memory: Chronicle of the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising”. Zuckerman died in Israel in 1981.

He speaks with great bitterness, as you might imagine. But he takes pains to honor those he feels are owed it. Not least the Poles who tried to help, even if it was out of self interest, e.g., Catholics hiding Jewish children in the hope of converting them. Here is the gist:

From his memoirs:

Anyone who fosters total hatred for the Polish people is committing a sin! We must do the opposite. Against the background of anti-Semitism and general apathy, these people are glorious. There was great danger in helping us, mortal danger, not only for them but also for their families, sometimes for the entire courtyard they lived in. In 1945, I was restrained at an international press conference when all kinds of questions were asked. I said honestly and I repeat it today: to cause the death of one hundred Jews, all you needed was one Polish denouncer; to save one Jew, it sometimes took the help of ten decent Poles, the help of an entire Polish family; even if they did it for money. Some gave their apartment, and others made identity cards. Even passive help deserves appreciation. The baker who didn’t denounce, for instance. It was a problem for a Polish family of four who suddenly had to start buying double quantities of rolls or meat. And what a bother it was to go far away to buy in order to support the family hiding with them.

Someone else deserves mention and it will probably surprise you as much as it did me. Yad Vashem awarded another woman recently for hiding a Jewish family in Greece. Prince Phillip, the Duke of Edinburg's mother. He traveled to Israel to accept the award. Of course, he didn't tell the media.

129 galloping granny  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:34:08pm

re: #110 EC Marm

I you haven't read the book, or seen the movie (which I haven't but now intend to rent) "The Pianist" is quite a tale of life in Warsaw for those years.

The Pianist is one of my favorite movies. Very moving. Bring kleenex. Didn't know there was a book - will fetch it from Amazon.

Somebody should write a book about Irena. A woman who just "did what was normal."

130 Conservative in Liberal Hands  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:34:42pm

re: #125 jcm

One of the great, noble events in all of history.

There were reports of individuals and groups of two-and-three who were called "werewolves" by German SS troops who were later found to have survived and kept fighting until the liberation of Warsaw in 1945... Leon Uris wrote about them in one of his books...

131 mapchic  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:35:22pm

One thing that many people do not realize is that in German occupied Poland the punishments for helping Jews were stricter than anywhere else in Europe.

If a Pole was found to be hiding a Jew then not only would that Pole be killed - so would everyone in their household. She did not only endanger herself, but also her loved ones.

It is amazing to me that in a world where I learned about Harriet Tubman every single February in school I NEVER learned about Irena Sendler.

The stories that should be told are not being told... it is up to all of us here to go out and tell Irena Sendler's story to at least one person in the coming week. We should do what we can to ensure that it will not be lost to history - just as she ensured that those precious children would not be lost.

132 goddessoftheclassroom  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:35:56pm

re: #128 wahabicorridor

I like to think that had I been alive at the time, I would have been a heroine and rescued Jews, too.

If I were single, I honestly think I would have.

But if I had my children, I must be honest and admit I probably wouldn't have risked their safety.

No matter what, though, I KNOW I never would have voluntarily denounced anyone,

133 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:35:57pm
134 Shug  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:36:25pm

re: #131 mapchic

One thing that many people do not realize is that in German occupied Poland the punishments for helping Jews were stricter than anywhere else in Europe.

It is amazing to me that in a world where I learned about Harriet Tubman every single February in school I NEVER learned about Irena Sendler.

.


Good point.

135 Ringo the Gringo  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:36:26pm

Her beauutiful eyes are a window to her beautiful soul.

136 jcm  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:36:35pm

re: #130 Conservative in Liberal Hands

There were reports of individuals and groups of two-and-three who were called "werewolves" by German SS troops who were later found to have survived and kept fighting until the liberation of Warsaw in 1945... Leon Uris wrote about them in one of his books...

Mila 18.

137 experiencedtraveller  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:36:48pm

Thanks all for great links.

I am mostly concerned about a new generation of holocaust troofers who appear to be attempting to use 'scientific' tools to study the machinery of the holocaust in effort to undermine the number of victims. They are studying camp size, train availability, facility resources etc. I hope righteous students somewhere are also studying these lines of inquiry.

As time passes and memories fade truth can be obscured by determined lies.

138 Ayatollah Ghilmeini  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:36:55pm

Irina Sendler's death underscores much of what we are discussing every day.

Just today, for the umpteenth time, the hirsute yahoo of Tehran openly called for Israel's end. The behavior of the criminal regime denying the obvious objective factual history of WWII while openly demonizing the Jews in the same way Hitler did 70 years ago; using the very same reference terms- vermin, disease and no right to exist. Almost using the past tense as though the crime were already done. This is no accident. Nor is the complacency of the International community which continues to hide from the truth even as Iran's goons rampage through the streets of a sister democracy imposing their will at gunpoint.

-In understanding the holocaust, it is imperative that people had choices: they could do nothing, they could help Hitler or they could help the Jews. The first choice meant you just suffered as a conquered victim of Hitler, the second choice meant you either believe in the Nazi's program or were willing to side with them to personally benefit. Irina Sendler took the third choice. In the face of the most brutal military occupation in human history (the few thousand Palestinians who have died either by taking up arms or accidentally shot under Israeli occupation equal not even 1 day's Nazi civilian murders under Hitler), Mrs. Sendler chose to defy Hitler. Under Nazi Germany, there was only one penalty for defying the regime. Usually the penalty included your family too. Even your neighbors might be killed for your resistance- anyone who chose to defy Hitler was more than risking their life, they lived under the constant fear of being caught and in a society where a snitch was grateful for a loaf of bread.

Polish society of the late 30s and early 40s was not philosemitic, in the face of their general indifference (I am giving most Poles the benefit of the doubt, see their choices above); but Irina was different, in her humanity compelled her to save people she had never met before. Perhaps, she understood that eventually Hitler would kill the Polish nation too but, whatever her thinking, she decided to fight Hitler by saving Jews. Every time she acted, she risked her life. Even being seen with a Jew could mean your death. She did not care.

So it is that even in death Irina reminds us of the unique base hatred of the Jewish people that lives in the hearts of certain evil souls and threatens not just Jews but civilization itself. Irina reminds us we must stand up or be driven down. She was a witness to the worst the world has ever seen.

As we sit on the eve of war, Irina passes but what she represents, if it is to mean anything, must compel us to speak and act against the great evil tide that is rising and becoming more deadly every day.

Irina fought Hitler; now it is our turn to confront what remains of him- his ideological spawn. If we do not act we will watch him dance with joy in Hell.

My Irina Sendler's memory be for a blessing on us all, a shining light from the past that illuminates the true path forward. If she could be brave, so must we; her life was at stake, so, I believe, are ours. We cannot falter.

Believe in the Victory. Remember Irina Sendler.

139 Shug  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:37:00pm

re: #135 Ringo the Gringo

Her beauutiful eyes are a window to her beautiful soul.

If I had her soul, I'd be smiling too.

140 galloping granny  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:37:14pm

re: #128 wahabicorridor

Yad Vashem awarded another woman recently for hiding a Jewish family in Greece. Prince Phillip, the Duke of Edinburg's mother. He traveled to Israel to accept the award. Of course, he didn't tell the media.

I just read Princess Alice's story -

[Link: www1.yadvashem.org...]

She is buried in Jerusalem next to her aunt, Grand Duchess Elizabeth, sister of the last Czarina.

141 Ben Hur  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:37:40pm

re: #108 mapchic

Her story is amazing. It should be taught in schools as an example of how one person with dedication and strength of will can do good.

I'm sorry, but that would be offensive to Muslims, the real victims.

142 Conservative in Liberal Hands  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:37:45pm

re: #136 jcm

Knew some would know it. THANKS!

143 bosforus  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:38:10pm

re: #131 mapchic
Not sure if you know this part of her story.

Arrested in 1943 by the Gestapo, she was severely tortured and sentenced to death. The %u017Begota saved her by bribing the German guards on the way to her execution. She was left in the woods, unconscious and with broken arms and legs. She was listed on public bulletin boards as among those executed. Even in hiding, she continued her work for the Jewish children.
144 galloping granny  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:38:42pm

re: #130 Conservative in Liberal Hands

There were reports of individuals and groups of two-and-three who were called "werewolves" by German SS troops who were later found to have survived and kept fighting until the liberation of Warsaw in 1945... Leon Uris wrote about them in one of his books...

Another book that goes into great detail about the Warsaw Ghetto and the Uprising is The Wall. I guess I had better find another copy of that.

Uris' books, BTW, are getting very hard to find.

145 goddessoftheclassroom  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:39:16pm

re: #141 Ben Hur

I'm sorry, but that would be offensive to Muslims, the real victims.

The Holocaust is taught in grades 6, 8, and 11 in both history and English/reading classes in my school district. When I taught 8th grade, I taught Night.

146 tedzilla99  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:39:57pm

I read stories like hers and others from the Holocaust and I begin to shake my head at liberals who spout "war is not the answer", etc. WWII was the only way to save those people, and the world, from the horrors that were only beginning. It's sometimes hard to have proper perspective but here it's easy.

God bless you, Irena - the world is a better place because you were in it.

147 Ben Hur  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:40:03pm

re: #145 goddessoftheclassroom

Are you British?

148 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:40:37pm

re: #130 Conservative in Liberal Hands

There were reports of individuals and groups of two-and-three who were called "werewolves" by German SS troops who were later found to have survived and kept fighting until the liberation of Warsaw in 1945... Leon Uris wrote about them in one of his books...

I remember reading about a group of Polish Jews who had decided from the beginning to form a resistance against the Germans. They had begun the war with around 105 members and still had over 90 by the end of the war. Some of them were arrested after the war for attempting to assassinate German officers held in Allied POW camps. Many of them went on to become Nazi Hunters for Israel. I got to see if I can find that book again. Read it years ago.

149 OregonMuse  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:41:08pm

Wow.

I'm reading her story and I'm crying like a little girl.

It just frosts me that they give Nobel prizes to bloated buffoons like Al Gore and Yassir Arafat and ignore a true hero.

R.I.P. Irena Sendler. It is sweet and right that you never got upset for not getting recognition from men. You will be recognized by the One whose regard is the only thing that matters.

150 galloping granny  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:41:17pm

re: #137 experiencedtraveller

Thanks all for great links.

I am mostly concerned about a new generation of holocaust troofers who appear to be attempting to use 'scientific' tools to study the machinery of the holocaust in effort to undermine the number of victims. They are studying camp size, train availability, facility resources etc. I hope righteous students somewhere are also studying these lines of inquiry.

As time passes and memories fade truth can be obscured by determined lies.

If you read the Life in a Jar link, you will find that Irena's story was brought to light by four school girls here in the US who read a little blurb about her and decided to do their Save Our History project about her. All is not lost.

151 wahabicorridor  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:41:39pm

re: #137 experiencedtraveller

Not to worry. Most of the information has already been studied and is out there - the Yad Vashem and the U.S. Holocaust museum have most of it, I believe. Especially on the rolling stock issue. Between Speer and Eichmann, who were always fighting over it, those numbers are pretty much known.

152 Conservative in Liberal Hands  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:41:48pm

re: #144 galloping granny

re: #144 galloping granny

Another book that goes into great detail about the Warsaw Ghetto and the Uprising is The Wall. I guess I had better find another copy of that.

Uris' books, BTW, are getting very hard to find.

Read them in my youth. I guess there's not too much demand for Uris' books. or are you suggesting something else... Granny?

153 galloping granny  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:42:44pm

re: #147 Ben Hur

Are you British?

No! She lives in Pennsylvania! Isn't it a miracle? My daughter teaches the Holocaust to about the same age group in New Mexico.

154 Ayatollah Ghilmeini  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:42:47pm
No, it's just that people are going to take care of their security needs. And the message to Iran is that, your desire to have a nuclear weapon, coupled with your statements about the destruction of our close ally, has made it abundantly clear to everybody that we have got to work together to stop you from having a nuclear weapon. To me, it's the single biggest threat to peace in the Middle East, is the Iranian regime, not only because of their desire to have the technologies to build a weapon, the technologies necessary to build a weapon, but it's also to their funding of Hezbollah. Look what's happening in Lebanon now -- a young democracy trying to survive. By the way, it's in Israel's interests that the Lebanese democracy survive.

President Bush Israel channel 10 interview

155 marjoriemoon  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:42:50pm

For people searching for relatives:

Jewish Gen, Yizkor Project [Link: www.jewishgen.org...]
Red Cross Holocaust Project [Link: www.redcross.org...]

After the fall of the USSR, many of the records of the old Jewish towns are now becoming available to the public. We have found a ton of info from both these sites.

Remarkable... I was thinking of Irene Sendler the other day. My mother was telling me a story of my grandmother's town, Korelich, Russia (part of Belarus now) about a Christian woman who saved 2 Jewish children at great peril to herself and her family. The children and the woman are both alive today.

156 savage_nation[deleted]  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:43:17pm
157 coquimbojoe  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:43:46pm

re: #156 savage_nation

What a fantastic thread! I cannot keep up!

Hi kids

Savage! how are things?

158 Slumbering Behemoth  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:44:06pm

re: #42 Slumbering Behemoth

Ugh, never mind. It was someone else entirely.

/my memory just ain't what it used to be.

159 galloping granny  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:44:07pm

re: #152 Conservative in Liberal Hands

re: #144 galloping granny

Read them in my youth. I guess there's not too much demand for Uris' books. or are you suggesting something else... Granny?

I read them all in my youth too. I wanted to reread Exodus a while back and had the very dickens of a time finding it. Most of his books seem to have been purged from libraries. Finally got one from a used book seller. Almost - but not quite - as hard to find as the Oxford version of El Cid.

160 jcm  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:44:10pm

re: #156 savage_nation

What a fantastic thread! I cannot keep up!

Hi kids

SAVAGE!

161 sparrowlake  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:44:22pm

re: #112 rawmuse

Rest in Peace, good and noble servant of God and humanity.

Righteous Gentile seems inadequate for such a heroine of biblical proportions. She was good beyond mere goodness, brave beyond mere bravery. Let us all remember this most sweet lady of valour.

162 bosforus  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:44:33pm

re: #156 savage_nation

What a fantastic thread! I cannot keep up!

Hi kids

Savage!

163 yochanan  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:44:54pm

i put a link up about this great woman yesterday, thanks charles for giving her a proper thread, a great hero, it is said if you save one life you have saved a whole world she saved 2,500 my G-d bless her in Olam Habah ( heaven) she has more than earned it.

164 Occasional Reader  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:44:59pm

re: #141 Ben Hur

I'm sorry, but that would be offensive to Muslims, the real victims.

Look, how about a compromise; we can devote one day to the so-called "holocaust", during the year-long course on the real - that is, Palestinian - genocide.

/

165 savage_nation[deleted]  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:45:21pm
166 savage_nation[deleted]  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:45:46pm
167 Stratergic Thinking  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:45:50pm

Irena Sendler,

I must make the observation that everybody has a can of whip@$$. However, it is clear to me that your can, by any estimate, was clearly bigger than anybody else's in a 3000 mile radius.

There are many grateful souls that appreciate your timely opening of said can.

RIP.

in awe...
hoping my can will be big enough if I ever need to open it.

ST

168 Ben Hur  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:45:52pm

Defiance!

The beginning sounds like a HAMAS/hizbALLAH rally.

169 maddogg  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:45:56pm

Mass murder on a vast scale is not new, and wasn't new when the Holocaust occurred. It has happened since, and will happen again. All evil requires is a tolerant (or pliable) population to grow into plausibility, then acceptance, then actual execution. It goes on right now in Africa, not on the same scale, but that may only be a matter of time and industrial wherewithal. So, rest assured, the Western World has learned little from it's past mistakes.

170 savage_nation[deleted]  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:46:05pm
171 ploome hineni[deleted]  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:46:34pm
172 Ben Hur  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:47:20pm

I confused.

We're the new Nazis.

Shouldn't we hate this woman?

173 WrathofG-d  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:47:40pm

re: #164 Occasional Reader

Funny joke unless you "search" 'Holocaust" on the net. You get mostly links about the "Palestinian" "holocaust".

174 bosforus  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:47:54pm

re: #166 savage_nation

bos! hows it going?

Not too shabby. Haven't dreamed of you as a woman in the last few days so I can't be doing that bad.

175 Conservative in Liberal Hands  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:48:40pm

re: #164 Occasional Reader

Look, how about a compromise; we can devote one day to the so-called "holocaust", during the year-long course on the real - that is, Palestinian - genocide.

/

Reader - There may be something to the Palestinian claims of genocide... by their brother Arabs. The fact that they've been kept in Concentration Resettlement Camps for almost fifty years and blatantly discriminated against by their "hosts" is a topic that someone should give some thought to...

176 Occasional Reader  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:48:53pm

re: #136 jcm

Mila 18.

I saw a very moving documentary on the Warsaw Ghetto some years ago. One of the survivors, in between sobs, mentioned that novel as being the most realistic literary account of life in the Ghetto.

The other thing I noticed in the documentary; some of the interviewed survivors described the Ghetto with something that, for the life of me, appeared to be nostalgia. I think that any shared, strong experience, however horrible, is capable of producing an emotional reaction of this sort.

177 treesarie  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:49:04pm

[Link: scribalterror.blogs.com...]

There is more truth and beauty in this picture than my eyes have witnessed in a very long time. God Bless and keep this wonderful woman.

178 coquimbojoe  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:49:06pm

re: #174 bosforus

Not too shabby. Haven't dreamed of you as a woman in the last few days so I can't be doing that bad.

You say that to all the boys!

179 Shug  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:49:34pm

re: #156 savage_nation

What a fantastic thread! I cannot keep up!

Hi kids


Hi savage
I'm Giving you the "blow your horn for me" arm gesture

180 savage_nation[deleted]  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:50:33pm
181 savage_nation[deleted]  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:50:50pm
182 bosforus  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:50:51pm

re: #178 coquimbojoe

You say that to all the boys!

Awww shucks

183 Honorary Yooper  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:50:54pm

re: #156 savage_nation

What a fantastic thread! I cannot keep up!

Hi kids

How're you doing?

We got sent some interesting pictures last night in the office e-mail. Apparently some twit tried to cross some railroad tracks in the middle of nowhere (in Montana), nowhere near a crossing, with a tractor trailer. It's a steep grade up to the tracks from the fields, and he managed to get the cab up onto the tracks, but the trailer was stuck on the slope.

I think the guy is a Canadian trucker as the trailer has "Winnipeg Motor Express, Inc." on the side.

184 mama winger  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:51:03pm

The Catholic News Agency has a nice video tribute to Irene Sendler here.

185 PloniAlmoni  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:51:05pm

Unfortunately, it's during times of unimaginable horror that honorable people with hearts of gold really stand out, risking their own life for the lives of others because they cannot help but do what they know is right. There were others like her and some that did not survive and lost their lives saving others. In Yad Vashem Holocaust Memorial in Jerusalem the walkways are surrounded by the trees planted by people who helped save the lives of other people who would have otherwise been murdered by the Nazis in the Holocaust. Among Irena Sendler and Oskar Schindler, there are many others who are relatively unknown, proving that no matter how terrible the situation is, there will always be brave people fighting on the side of good. Irena Sendler and the rest who displayed undaunting heroism in the face of the Holocaust should be the role models of our generation, as opposed to music bands, sports, and movie stars.

186 Conservative in Liberal Hands  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:51:17pm

TTYL, Friends. Got to go home. As we used to say in the '60's "Peace!"

187 yochanan  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:51:23pm

re: #20 buzzsawmonkey

To those tempted to compare Irena Sendler to Oskar Schindler, I offer the following post from Monday:

[She was] Well above Oskar Schindler. Schindler was a Nazi industrialist; his saving of his slaves was due in large part to self-interest. When the war was going well, he needed the workers; when it became clear that the war was lost, he realized that saving them would serve him well afterwards. And when the war was over he was not shy about sponging on those he'd saved.

Irena Sendler had no such profit motive, and did not seek to capitalize on what she did. All she got was risk and a reward in Heaven. In this, she is on a par with Miep Gies, who helped the Frank family, and with Raul Wallenberg and Sugihara, who issued diplomatic passports at great personal risk upon their own authorization. Wallenberg, of course, vanished into the gulags; Sugihara was demoted and recalled and suffered for his act of conscience.

Sugihara may have saved my son's M.I.L. as she escaped to shanghi
Sugihara like Irena Sendler did not do it for personal gain. In fact sugihara lost his job after the war when it came out what he did to save jews.

188 bosforus  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:51:24pm

re: #181 savage_nation

Where are you these days?

189 Occasional Reader  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:52:24pm

re: #168 Ben Hur

Daniel Craig seems to have an affinity for playing badass joos! Good for him.

190 coquimbojoe  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:52:36pm

re: #173 WrathofG-d

Funny joke unless you "search" 'Holocaust" on the net. You get mostly links about the "Palestinian" "holocaust".

Wrath, I googled Holocaust and the first two pages came up with the real holocaust. I point this out gratefully. The idea of a Palestinian holocaust is a sad, terrible, joke.

191 wahabicorridor  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:52:51pm

re: #171 ploome hineni

Zuckerman talks about instances when hidden children, thinking they were the biological children of the family raising them, found out the truth and simply could not bear it. Apparently, some refused to return to their Jewish families.

I wonder how many are out there whose families didn't make it and have never been told.

192 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:53:12pm
193 savage_nation[deleted]  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:53:18pm
194 jcm  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:53:28pm

re: #176 Occasional Reader

I saw a very moving documentary on the Warsaw Ghetto some years ago. One of the survivors, in between sobs, mentioned that novel as being the most realistic literary account of life in the Ghetto.

The other thing I noticed in the documentary; some of the interviewed survivors described the Ghetto with something that, for the life of me, appeared to be nostalgia. I think that any shared, strong experience, however horrible, is capable of producing an emotional reaction of this sort.

The should have a great deal of pride in what they did. A lot of people consider ordinary lives, well boring. Resistance in the Ghetto would be their Great Thing in their lives, hence the nostalgia. Similar to the bond, and memories of our war veterans.

BTW I consider "ordinary" live to be heroic in their own way. Day in day producing, raising families, contributing to society without recognition is what makes us what we are.

195 savage_nation[deleted]  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:54:13pm
196 bosforus  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:56:22pm

re: #195 savage_nation

Im halfway between Columbus and Cincinnati on I71.

Cool! I'm not too familiar with that area but I'm guessing a lot farms.

197 bosforus  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:56:47pm

re: #196 bosforus

Cool! I'm not too familiar with that area but I'm guessing a lot offarms.

198 wahabicorridor  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:57:17pm

Re: the availability of Leon Uris' books - I found quite a few at Borders last summer. Have you tried Amazon? Even if you can't get them from Amazon directly, they probably have some resellers - and I've always had very good dealings with their resellers.

Re: Oskar Schindler. I wouldn't be so quick to judge his motives. There were less dangerous ways to make a reichmark.

199 Ward Cleaver  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:58:15pm

re: #126 EC Marm

There was even a journalist that complied a series of lists with hundreds of names of Czechoslovakian Jews captured by the Nazis in Italy who he helped with money, clothing, medicines and eventually escape from their captors.
How things change.

Thanks for pointing me to that Web site.

200 sparrowlake  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:58:15pm

When will the day come when the palestinians see fit to honour the Israeli doctors who treat their sick and wounded terrorist children, perhaps by calling them "Righteous Jews"?
?........?..............?..............?

201 savage_nation[deleted]  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:58:38pm
202 bosforus  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:59:19pm

re: #201 savage_nation

Thats all thats out here.

And knowing is half the battle.

203 Suzette  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:59:22pm

re: #101 WrathofG-d

There were many uprisings: They fought.
Sobibor

Treblinka

Auschwitz

Jewish Partisan Fighters

204 Ben Hur  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:59:49pm

Angry German Kid

Of course this is not a reflection of ALL Germans, but his voice can bring you back.......

205 Occasional Reader  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:59:52pm

re: #200 sparrowlake

When will the day come when the palestinians see fit to honour the Israeli doctors who treat their sick and wounded terrorist children, perhaps by calling them "Righteous Jews"?
?........?..............?..............?

I think that's scheduled for the day after I open my Atheist/Agnostic Bookstore in downtown Mecca.

206 EC Marm  Tue, May 13, 2008 2:59:55pm

I know of a house that was custom built by an Austrian couple in my area. They never forgot the Holocaust and never thought that the conditions that made it possible would never return. The entrance to the attic could have been a simple and inexpensive door. Instead, it is a book shelf on hinges, in a room with many book shelves. They eventually moved away.
The current owner of the house always makes a point of showing it to guests and not wishing to presume ignorance on their part usually asks the question, "You've heard of the story of Anne Frank?" as he swings open the book case.

207 savage_nation[deleted]  Tue, May 13, 2008 3:00:03pm
208 jcm  Tue, May 13, 2008 3:00:07pm

re: #195 savage_nation

Im halfway between Columbus and Cincinnati on I71.

My City was Gone.

209 wahabicorridor  Tue, May 13, 2008 3:00:07pm

re: #140 galloping granny


wow. thanks!

bigel, you schlub, you better be reading this!

210 Alouette  Tue, May 13, 2008 3:01:24pm

re: #200 sparrowlake

When will the day come when the palestinians see fit to honour the Israeli doctors who treat their sick and wounded terrorist children, perhaps by calling them "Righteous Jews"?
?........?..............?..............?

Honor killings?

211 Ben Hur  Tue, May 13, 2008 3:01:27pm

Wow, with all these "Righteuous Gentiles," saving so many, and all these uprisings, I startin' to wonder........

212 Honorary Yooper  Tue, May 13, 2008 3:01:59pm

re: #200 sparrowlake

When will the day come when the palestinians see fit to honour the Israeli doctors who treat their sick and wounded terrorist children, perhaps by calling them "Righteous Jews"?
?........?..............?..............?

The day I go to the cathedral in Mecca with all the bells chiming and the carillon playing?

213 formercorpsman  Tue, May 13, 2008 3:02:08pm

re: #184 mama winger

In 1943 she was detained by the Gestapo and taken to prison where she was brutally tortured. A Divine Mercy holy card was found in her cell with the phrase, Jesus I trust in you, which she kept until 1979 when she gave it to John Paul II as a gift.

That really spoke to me.

She obviously lived her faith.

214 savage_nation[deleted]  Tue, May 13, 2008 3:02:24pm
215 NY Nana  Tue, May 13, 2008 3:02:38pm

re: #161 sparrowlake

May she rest in peace. I am so sorry that she was not allowed to go to Israel to be commended by the Holocaust Museum, as the commies wouldn't allow it. I wish she could have lived to 120.

And she nearly was burned in the ovens for her heroism.

A comment: Out of respect for this beloved 98 year old heroine, I do not think this thread should be hijacked. For some of us, she may very well have saved our relatives from the ovens by her caring.

216 WrathofG-d  Tue, May 13, 2008 3:02:43pm

re: #190 coquimbojoe

hmmm. Ok I technically "searched" "Holocaust Baby head being smashed into wall", (looking for pics to show what Irene was saving kids from) and got all Arab propaganda!

217 JHW  Tue, May 13, 2008 3:02:46pm

I notice Abebooks has 2508 copies of Leon Uris' books available, starting at $1 a copy. Haven't checked to see if all his titles are listed.
Leon Uris at Abebooks

218 Ben Hur  Tue, May 13, 2008 3:03:15pm

re: #216 WrathofG-d

hmmm. Ok I technically "searched" "Holocaust Baby head being smashed into wall", (looking for pics to show what Irene was saving kids from) and got all Arab propaganda!


You have a Joo Computer.

219 Ben Hur  Tue, May 13, 2008 3:03:28pm

re: #218 Ben Hur

You have a Joo Computer.


Jooter.

220 MandyManners  Tue, May 13, 2008 3:04:01pm

re: #215 NY Nana

May she rest in peace. I am so sorry that she was not allowed to go to Israel to be commended by the Holocaust Museum, as the commies wouldn't allow it. I wish she could have lived to 120.

And she nearly was burned in the ovens for her heroism.

A comment: Out of respect for this beloved 98 year old heroine, I do not think this thread should be hijacked. For some of us, she may very well have saved our relatives from the ovens by her caring.

Amen.

221 Occasional Reader  Tue, May 13, 2008 3:04:33pm

re: #218 Ben Hur

You have a Joo Computer.

A Mac(abee)?

222 ainchreidmheach, like  Tue, May 13, 2008 3:06:20pm

I agree her name should be one that it spoken in households across the world. R.I.P.

Visiting Auschwitz this summer I was amazed to learn of the countless heroes that came out of Poland to fight the Nazis. There were sins, of course, but there was also much bravery to emerge from that country.

Nothing has changed it seems with regards to that fine country and its wonderful people.

223 wahabicorridor  Tue, May 13, 2008 3:06:38pm

re: #221 Occasional Reader

smart ass

224 Ben Hur  Tue, May 13, 2008 3:07:09pm

re: #222 ainchreidmheach, like

I agree her name should be one that it spoken in households across the world. R.I.P.

Visiting Auschwitz this summer I was amazed to learn of the countless heroes that came out of Poland to fight the Nazis. There were sins, of course, but there was also much bravery to emerge from that country.

Nothing has changed it seems with regards to that fine country and its wonderful people.

You must be Polish.

225 Dianna  Tue, May 13, 2008 3:07:38pm

re: #211 Ben Hur

Individuals versus an industrialized slaughter machine.

226 jcm  Tue, May 13, 2008 3:07:52pm

re: #214 savage_nation

Is she flipping off the Limbaugh fans? heheh

When she found out Rush was using that she sued, but they came to an agreement of some sort.

I figured you're in Ohio, hence the song.

227 sparrowlake  Tue, May 13, 2008 3:08:05pm

re: #215 NY Nana

I only wish someone like her would have saved even one of my late mother's sisters or parents.

228 yochanan  Tue, May 13, 2008 3:08:28pm

re: #203 Suzette

There were many uprisings: They fought.
Sobibor

Treblinka

Auschwitz

Jewish Partisan Fighters

I WORKED WITH TWO GUYS WHO WERE HOLOCOUST SURVIVORS ONE OF THEM HAD ESCAPED FROM ONE OF THE CAMPS AND ENDED UP IN ONE OF THE JEWISH PARTISAN GROUPS.

229 Ben Hur  Tue, May 13, 2008 3:08:38pm

re: #225 Dianna

Individuals versus an industrialized slaughter machine.


I understand.

I was channeling Mel Gibson's father.

230 jcm  Tue, May 13, 2008 3:08:56pm

re: #223 wahabicorridor

smart ass

OR is a smart assed lizard.
;-) (my favorite typo)

231 Shug  Tue, May 13, 2008 3:09:28pm

Does selfless Bravery like hers still exist?

232 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, May 13, 2008 3:09:28pm

Obama adviser: Divide Jerusalem

JERUSALEM – Jerusalem must be included in any negotiations between Israel and the Palestinian Authority, stressed Sen. Barack Obama's Middle East adviser Daniel Kurtzer.

"It will be impossible to make progress on serious peace talks without putting the future of Jerusalem on the table," Kurtzer said yesterday at a conference organized by the Jewish People Policy Planning Institute or JPPPI.

Kurtzer, a former U.S. ambassador to Israel, has long been recognized by Israeli leaders, including prime ministers, as biased against Israel and is notorious for urging extreme concessions from the Jewish state. He was appointed as a primary Obama adviser on the Middle East earlier this year.

233 wahabicorridor  Tue, May 13, 2008 3:09:38pm

There's something else that I think needs to be pointed out. Irena was not alone. There were thousands upon thousands who did what they could.

So, I don't want to hear, after the fact, that

234 Dianna  Tue, May 13, 2008 3:09:38pm

re: #229 Ben Hur

Don't. It's probably bad for you.

235 savage_nation[deleted]  Tue, May 13, 2008 3:10:22pm
236 formercorpsman  Tue, May 13, 2008 3:10:38pm

re: #232 NJDhockeyfan

Just my view.

237 yochanan  Tue, May 13, 2008 3:11:03pm

this is a hard subject for me, but it is good that it not be forgotten,

238 jcm  Tue, May 13, 2008 3:11:25pm

re: #228 yochanan

I WORKED WITH TWO GUYS WHO WERE HOLOCOUST SURVIVORS ONE OF THEM HAD ESCAPED FROM ONE OF THE CAMPS AND ENDED UP IN ONE OF THE JEWISH PARTISAN GROUPS.

PBS Secrets of the Dead last week had Escape from Auschwitz.

The death factory at Auschwitz was a closely guarded secret of the Third Reich - until two men, Rudolph Vrba and Alfred Wetzler, escaped to tell the world about the Nazi atrocities. Escape from Auschwitz reveals the story of their escape and explores the controversial decision by the head of the Hungarian underground not to make their report public.
239 hayseed  Tue, May 13, 2008 3:11:54pm

re: #195 savage_nation

Im halfway between Columbus and Cincinnati on I71.

going to columbas or Cincinnati?

240 Suzette  Tue, May 13, 2008 3:11:54pm

re: #237 yochanan


Never! It shall never be forgotten with me and my family!

241 wahabicorridor  Tue, May 13, 2008 3:11:56pm

re: #233 wahabicorridor

There's something else that I think needs to be pointed out. Irena was not alone. There were thousands upon thousands who did what they could.

So, I don't want to hear, after the fact, that

I DIDN'T KNOW

Yeah. They knew. Every fucking one of them knew.

/what happened to my post?

242 WrathofG-d  Tue, May 13, 2008 3:11:58pm

re: #232 NJDhockeyfan

1/2 of Jerusalem for 1/2 of Mecca!

243 Ben Hur  Tue, May 13, 2008 3:12:20pm

re: #224 Ben Hur

You must be Polish.

Or Irish.

244 Ward Cleaver  Tue, May 13, 2008 3:12:29pm

re: #232 NJDhockeyfan

Obama adviser: Divide Jerusalem

Wow, that's thread-worthy.

245 littleoldlady  Tue, May 13, 2008 3:14:05pm

Thank you very much for this thread and topic, Charles!

246 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  Tue, May 13, 2008 3:14:29pm

re: #232 NJDhockeyfan

JERUSALEM – Jerusalem must be included in any negotiations between Israel and the Palestinian Authority, stressed Sen. Barack Obama's Middle East adviser Daniel Kurtzer.

How does this sound? Israel gets it, the Palis dont. Now it was included in the negotiations. Next issue?

247 formercorpsman  Tue, May 13, 2008 3:14:37pm

re: #244 Ward Cleaver

I agree.

In fact, I would love to see more threads about this stuff.

At the very least, it gets people digging, and is more then relevant for topics to discuss.

248 NY Nana  Tue, May 13, 2008 3:15:06pm

re: #220 MandyManners

It just seems that a thread about this wonderful woman should not be desecrated by lizards joking around. This is not about them, damn it.

249 formercorpsman  Tue, May 13, 2008 3:15:19pm

re: #247 formercorpsman

than, not then, than.

250 savage_nation[deleted]  Tue, May 13, 2008 3:15:50pm
251 wahabicorridor  Tue, May 13, 2008 3:16:07pm

re: #238 jcm

The death factory at Auschwitz was a closely guarded secret of the Third Reich

I dispute that based on what my father told me.

He was a bomber pilot stationed in England. The plane he flew, B26, did not have the range to reach Germany. But he knew a lot of pilots who flew the B24, B17, etc. And he flew with expat Polish pilots.

He got to England in 42/43 and he heard from pilots who had come back to the States for whatever reason about the camps, so he knew about them before he even got over there.

They all knew about the camps. When I was a kid I used to start raging arguments with him because the allies refused to bomb them.

252 debutaunt  Tue, May 13, 2008 3:16:51pm

re: #113 infidelia

I'm heading out to see Iron Man. Missed it last night. Have a good one!

It would be impressive if you swam, bicycled and ran to get there.

253 WrathofG-d  Tue, May 13, 2008 3:17:11pm

re: #246 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

During the Holocaust Amalek (nazis) tried to take our Jewish souls but failed; they took our bodies as consolation. Now, Amalek (Arabs) is again attempting to take the Jewish soul by cunningly asking us to surrender our basic beliefs as Jews. (ie: our eternal connection to Jerusalem!) Just like the Nazis, when Israel refuses, the Arabs take our bodies as consolation.

254 yochanan  Tue, May 13, 2008 3:17:16pm

re: #240 Suzette

Never! It shall never be forgotten with me and my family!

not by me or mine for sure;
95% of my wife's family were butchered in euroland, her grand father got out of romania in the 1930's his 8 brothers and sisters, there familys except for one cousin did not survive. My son's M.I.L. was a refuge Shanghi.

My step father's family were refuges from the armenian genocide one the world has forgotten mostly.

255 Ben Hur  Tue, May 13, 2008 3:17:40pm

re: #251 wahabicorridor

I dispute that based on what my father told me.

He was a bomber pilot stationed in England. The plane he flew, B26, did not have the range to reach Germany. But he knew a lot of pilots who flew the B24, B17, etc. And he flew with expat Polish pilots.

He got to England in 42/43 and he heard from pilots who had come back to the States for whatever reason about the camps, so he knew about them before he even got over there.

They all knew about the camps. When I was a kid I used to start raging arguments with him because the allies refused to bomb them.

They refused to bomb it for a number of reasons.

One being that it would "take away from the war effort" and that the best way to end the murder at Auschwitz was to expedite the end of the war.

Of course that was seen as complete BS once the Allies bombed it BY ACCIDENT.

256 mama winger  Tue, May 13, 2008 3:18:07pm

re: #248 NY Nana

It just seems that a thread about this wonderful woman should not be desecrated by lizards joking around. This is not about them, damn it.

Yes. You are right.

257 debutaunt  Tue, May 13, 2008 3:18:32pm

re: #119 goddessoftheclassroom

Yes, I saw it--amazing.

I have many books as resources for the Holocaust unit I used to teach, In one of them is a story of a woman just walking down the street when a Jewish woman said to a Nazi soldier, "No, it's not my baby--it's hers," and she thrust hew own baby into the stranger's arms,

Stunning!

258 Occasional Reader  Tue, May 13, 2008 3:18:44pm
The death factory at Auschwitz

In absolute numbers, Auschwitz was the deadliest of the camps. In relative terms, though, it was Treblinka. Almost everyone deported to Treblinka was murdered.

259 wahabicorridor  Tue, May 13, 2008 3:19:03pm

re: #254 yochanan

My step father's family were refuges from the armenian genocide one the world has forgotten mostly.

yochanan, can you give me a good source about what really happened? I don't know what to trust.

Thanks in advance.

260 Ben Hur  Tue, May 13, 2008 3:19:13pm

I AM LEAVING.

261 Occasional Reader  Tue, May 13, 2008 3:19:20pm

re: #255 Ben Hur

Of course that was seen as complete BS once the Allies bombed it BY ACCIDENT.

I don't really see how that proves it to be BS.

262 mama winger  Tue, May 13, 2008 3:21:08pm

The Jews are still here. The covenant is intact. And so it will ever be.

263 NY Nana  Tue, May 13, 2008 3:21:35pm

re: #227 sparrowlake

I only wish someone like her would have saved even one of my late mother's sisters or parents.

Same here re 3 of my 4 grandparents. We are Litvaks, and there were parts of Lithuania and Poland that switched borders back and forth.

My maternal Grandfather was an Anglo-Jew whose parents were Lithuanian Jews.

I have no exact number...but as far as we knew after the Shoah, no one was left, except the English branch.

I am forever grateful that my family came here, to Canada, the UK, Mexico and Argentina before that war, in the 1890's to the early 1900's, but those who stayed behind?

NEVER FORGIVE, NEVER FORGET!

264 WrathofG-d  Tue, May 13, 2008 3:22:03pm

re: #263 NY Nana

I was asking about you the other day. Great to see ya!

265 MandyManners  Tue, May 13, 2008 3:22:22pm

re: #248 NY Nana

It just seems that a thread about this wonderful woman should not be desecrated by lizards joking around. This is not about them, damn it.

Amen.

266 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  Tue, May 13, 2008 3:22:29pm

re: #253 WrathofG-d

During the Holocaust Amalek (nazis) tried to take our Jewish souls but failed; they took our bodies as consolation. Now, Amalek (Arabs) is again attempting to take the Jewish soul by cunningly asking us to surrender our basic beliefs as Jews. (ie: our eternal connection to Jerusalem!) Just like the Nazis, when Israel refuses, the Arabs take our bodies as consolation.

Negotiations are fine when dealing with friends or if you have some common ground. For people who call for your death, all talking does is put off the inevitable.

267 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Tue, May 13, 2008 3:22:45pm
268 wahabicorridor  Tue, May 13, 2008 3:22:58pm

re: #255 Ben Hur

They refused to bomb it for a number of reasons.

One being that it would "take away from the war effort" and that the best way to end the murder at Auschwitz was to expedite the end of the war.

Yep, Dad told me that one. But the one he told me that was the hardest to hear went like this.

Jew-hate isn't confined to Europe. We've always had it here. The politicians and the generals did not want to deal with the fallout if families found out their sons were killed in a mission trying to free Jews. They did not want the "This is American blood being shed for Jews" meme starting up in the media.

269 Ben Hur  Tue, May 13, 2008 3:23:05pm

re: #261 Occasional Reader

I don't really see how that proves it to be BS.


OOFA!

Because they said they couldn't. Because they were claiming that they didn't have the resources to bomb it - and that if they did, they didn't want to take resources from the main war effort.

Then, they bombed it by accident.

There is a photograph of Auschwitz taken from an Allied aircraft.

They were flying over it quite a bit.

There was NO reason it couldn't have been bombed.

Another reason is that the Allies felt that if they bombed Auschwitz and killed a number of Joos, the Germans would have a propoganda coup, 'See, the Allies hate the Joos too,etc"

Jewish leaders made the arguement that it's better to kill a few hundred, compared to what was going on there.

The death camp was only one section of Auschwitz.

270 jcm  Tue, May 13, 2008 3:23:43pm

re: #251 wahabicorridor

They certainly had enough info. IIRC Breckenridge Long discounted the Wannsee Protocol documents when they were smuggled out.

271 JHW  Tue, May 13, 2008 3:23:44pm

In my opinion, the very best single volume book about the Shoah is this one The War Against the Jews
by Lucy Dawidowicz, and IIRC was written in co-operation with Yad Vashem. A large portion of the book deals with armed Jewish resistance against the Nazis, and there is also a lot of information on Righteous Gentiles. Finland, Italy and Bulgaria also are mentioned for their government's resistance to Nazi attempt to deport Jews from their territory, in contrast to other occupied or allied governments. A most excellent one volume compendium.

272 Ben Hur  Tue, May 13, 2008 3:24:25pm

NOw I'm Leaving.

273 NY Nana  Tue, May 13, 2008 3:24:34pm

re: #231 Shug

Does selfless Bravery like hers still exist?

I pray we will never have to find out, nor our kids, grandkids, etc......ever.

274 savage_nation[deleted]  Tue, May 13, 2008 3:25:36pm
275 mama winger  Tue, May 13, 2008 3:25:43pm

re: #273 NY Nana

I pray we will never have to find out, nor our kids, grandkids, etc......ever.

We will, though. That is why we must teach them the history, and prepare them for the battles to come.

276 WrathofG-d  Tue, May 13, 2008 3:25:52pm

re: #266 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)


You are 100% correct, but I was pointing out what I believe to be a bigger picture here.

Under NO circumstances should Israel (Jews) give up one inch of Jerusalem.

277 Ben Hur  Tue, May 13, 2008 3:26:33pm

re: #275 mama winger


United 93 comes to mind.

Now really, I must leave!

278 Nevergiveup  Tue, May 13, 2008 3:26:41pm

re: #269 Ben Hur

If I am not mistaken, there was a petro-chemical plant at Auschwitz that the Allies did target. So the facts are that the Allies could reach the camps, but for reasons never fully explained, they chose not to bomb.

279 wahabicorridor  Tue, May 13, 2008 3:26:48pm

re: #271 JHW

Thanks for the recommendation. Yad Vashem has also published "The Holocaust".

But I think I take exception to this:

Bulgaria also are mentioned for their government's resistance to Nazi attempt to deport Jews from their territory

IIRC, Bulgaria did turn over Jews from other countries who had taken refuge there.

?

280 NY Nana  Tue, May 13, 2008 3:27:10pm

re: #276 WrathofG-d

You are 100% correct, but I was pointing out what I believe to be a bigger picture here.

Under NO circumstances should Israel (Jews) give up one inch of Jerusalem.

Not one single grain of sand. It is not man's to give.

281 Suzette  Tue, May 13, 2008 3:27:23pm

re: #254 yochanan


I am very sorry to here that! Many prayers to you....

282 Occasional Reader  Tue, May 13, 2008 3:28:03pm

re: #269 Ben Hur

Because they were claiming that they didn't have the resources to bomb it - and that if they did, they didn't want to take resources from the main war effort.

Again, their bombing it by accident doesn't necessarily void that argument.

They were flying over it quite a bit.

There was NO reason it couldn't have been bombed.

Well, flying over it on the way to bomb something else, and tasking a mission to bomb it, are two different things.

I don't know if they made the right call, either. But the observation that they bombed it by accident doesn't really seem relevant to the question, IMHO.

283 Ma Sands  Tue, May 13, 2008 3:28:26pm

re: #231 Shug

Yes.

284 Suzette  Tue, May 13, 2008 3:28:42pm

re: #258 Occasional Reader

Not just Treblinka.....
Sobibor
Belzec
Chelm

285 wahabicorridor  Tue, May 13, 2008 3:28:46pm

re: #278 Nevergiveup

but for reasons never fully explained, they chose not to bomb.

see my #268.

gotta go.

Thanks for the thread, Charles.

286 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  Tue, May 13, 2008 3:28:47pm

re: #276 WrathofG-d

You are 100% correct, but I was pointing out what I believe to be a bigger picture here.

Under NO circumstances should Israel (Jews) give up one inch of Jerusalem.

Absolutely not. If anything Syria and Jordan should be asked when they plan to return the land they stole from Israel.

287 yochanan  Tue, May 13, 2008 3:29:59pm

the Armenian genocide was not as well organized as the shoah which had more to do with the German organizational ability than any lack of blood lust of the ottoman and post ottoman turks.

the reasons for it were varied, Muslim hate for dhimmi, Armenian Christian support of the Russians during ww1, and greed but reports i have read and photo's i have seen proved it happened, Some say the number murdered was close to a million but the turks unlike the Germans did not keep records. Beheading dhimmi is not a new thing the turks did it to the Armenians too.

288 NY Nana  Tue, May 13, 2008 3:32:01pm

Here is the website for Yad Vashem...it has a section on Righteous Gentiles and has the names of the countries that helped, even many with the nazis in control.

289 Nevergiveup  Tue, May 13, 2008 3:32:27pm

re: #287 yochanan

the Armenian genocide was not as well organized as the shoah which had more to do with the German organizational ability than any lack of blood lust of the ottoman and post ottoman turks.

the reasons for it were varied, Muslim hate for dhimmi, Armenian Christian support of the Russians during ww1, and greed but reports i have read and photo's i have seen proved it happened, Some say the number murdered was close to a million but the turks unlike the Germans did not keep records. Beheading dhimmi is not a new thing the turks did it to the Armenians too.

Hitler drew alot of encouragement from the Armenian Holocaust. He found that the the West was weak and would not fight to defend it's basic principals. Hum...sound familiar. So much for history not repeating itself!

290 yochanan  Tue, May 13, 2008 3:33:53pm

re: #268 wahabicorridor

Yep, Dad told me that one. But the one he told me that was the hardest to hear went like this.

Jew-hate isn't confined to Europe. We've always had it here. The politicians and the generals did not want to deal with the fallout if families found out their sons were killed in a mission trying to free Jews. They did not want the "This is American blood being shed for Jews" meme starting up in the media.

THE P.M. OF CANADA WHEN ASKED IF HE WOULD ACCEPT JEWISH REFUGES WAS REPORTED TO HAVE SAID 'ONE WAS TOO MANY'

AND EVEN AFTER THE WAR STARTED AMERICA DID NOT ACCEPT JEWISH REFUGES.

291 Nevergiveup  Tue, May 13, 2008 3:36:11pm

re: #290 yochanan

THE P.M. OF CANADA WHEN ASKED IF HE WOULD ACCEPT JEWISH REFUGES WAS REPORTED TO HAVE SAID 'ONE WAS TOO MANY'

AND EVEN AFTER THE WAR STARTED AMERICA DID NOT ACCEPT JEWISH REFUGES.

Well no more than the very tiny legal limit. That limit was controlled by the State Department. Enough said.

292 psaturn  Tue, May 13, 2008 3:36:52pm

Thanks Charles for posting that...

So we can remember her heroic actions worthy of a .... Prize...

But the world did not want to recognize her...so instead G-d will do that.

G-d is a G-d of justice.

293 JHW  Tue, May 13, 2008 3:38:11pm

re: #279 wahabicorridor

I can't find the book right now so I can't verify my assertion, going on memory, but I'm almost certain there was organized governmental resistance from the king on down to the deportation of Bulgarian Jews. However,I don't think they were as protective of non-citizen Jews. I'll see if I can find the book, I was just looking at it, it's probably right in front of me somewhere.

294 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Tue, May 13, 2008 3:38:16pm
295 psaturn  Tue, May 13, 2008 3:38:59pm

re: #291 Nevergiveup

Well no more than the very tiny legal limit. That limit was controlled by the State Department. Enough said.


The State Dept is not doing much about the illegal immigration from Mexico...

296 debutaunt  Tue, May 13, 2008 3:39:21pm

re: #159 galloping granny

I read them all in my youth too. I wanted to reread Exodus a while back and had the very dickens of a time finding it. Most of his books seem to have been purged from libraries. Finally got one from a used book seller. Almost - but not quite - as hard to find as the Oxford version of El Cid.

There are a number of Leon Uris books available on Amazon's used book section!

297 BBev  Tue, May 13, 2008 3:39:43pm

I have coffee once a week with an old friend that was on the beach on D-day, he has told me many stories about the war he wrote a book but has not had it published yet I hope he does soon seeing he is 85 and has survived cancer twice. He is defiantly part of the greatest generation.

298 psaturn  Tue, May 13, 2008 3:39:48pm

re: #294 buzzsawmonkey

...oh hell, I can't even keep a straight face this long.


You are more fascinating when you get angry...so thinks Ploomie...

299 sparrowlake  Tue, May 13, 2008 3:40:58pm

re: #263 NY Nana

Same here re 3 of my 4 grandparents. We are Litvaks, and there were parts of Lithuania and Poland that switched borders back and forth.
NEVER FORGIVE, NEVER FORGET!

My parents too were Lithuanians. My father's parents and 2 of his brothers were also slaughtered. My mother survived, but only because her death-camp Bergen-Belsen was liberated before she could be killed. She told me that on the morning of the day of liberation of the camp she woke up lying on the ground with her head resting on the fresh corpse of the young woman next to her who had died during the night. She looked up and saw the British soldiers just staring down at her.
I can't believe this, after all these years I'm sitting here sobbing like a little child....

300 yochanan  Tue, May 13, 2008 3:41:02pm

[Link: www.armenian-genocide.org...]
I could find more links just none from turkey were saying it happen would land you in jail.

301 Suzette  Tue, May 13, 2008 3:41:31pm

re: #267 buzzsawmonkey

Indeed....even the smallest amount of resistance was honorable.
They kept their humanity against brutal odds.

302 madisonsfriend  Tue, May 13, 2008 3:41:46pm

Although I learned a lot about the Holocaust growing up and as an adult, I had visited Yad Vashem before, the Holocaust Museum in Dc, the Museum of Jewish Heritage in NYC but somehow, it wasn't until I was at Yad Vashem last year that I learned or realized the Bulgarians -their parliment and the Bulgarian orhtodox church-saved 50,000 Jews. We always heard about the Danish gov't helping Jews but that number was much smaller. I am not sure why the Bulgarian information wasn't more well known but I thought perhaps because of communism?

303 Russkilitlover  Tue, May 13, 2008 3:41:49pm

re: #251 wahabicorridor

He got to England in 42/43 and he heard from pilots who had come back to the States for whatever reason about the camps, so he knew about them before he even got over there.

They all knew about the camps. When I was a kid I used to start raging arguments with him because the allies refused to bomb them.

There is a difference in "knowing" that there were camps and having the military ability to do anything about it. I refuse to harbor "American Guilt" about not taking them out sooner. It was beyond our capabiities and British capabilities to penetrate that far into enemy terriorty.

304 JHW  Tue, May 13, 2008 3:42:27pm

re: #288 NY Nana

Thanks for the links Nana, green hearted.

305 NY Nana  Tue, May 13, 2008 3:42:45pm

re: #271 JHW

I was a child, safe in America during WWII, and my Mum zt'l sent me a first copy of the Diary of Anne Frank..I was away at summer camp. The impression it made on me, about the life of one Jewish girl, a few years older than I was at the time, is forever burned on my brain and in my heart.

My 4 kids read it, and now it is still in a decent enough condition for my grandkids to read when they are old enough.

306 ishabibble  Tue, May 13, 2008 3:43:36pm

re: #294 buzzsawmonkey


I don't know about the Kos Kiddies, but I just sent a link to this thread to the Polish Embassy in D.C. I think they would be glad to know how many people have paid their respects to this saintly woman. Irena was what is good in this world.

307 Occasional Reader  Tue, May 13, 2008 3:44:21pm

re: #293 JHW

I can't find the book right now so I can't verify my assertion, going on memory, but I'm almost certain there was organized governmental resistance from the king on down to the deportation of Bulgarian Jews. However,I don't think they were as protective of non-citizen Jews. I'll see if I can find the book, I was just looking at it, it's probably right in front of me somewhere.

In Arendt's Eichmann in Jersualem, she goes country-by-country in one chapter detailing how much resistance there was (if any) to the Holocaust. I don't remember Bulgaria specifically.

308 Occasional Reader  Tue, May 13, 2008 3:45:34pm

re: #299 sparrowlake

Wow.

No other words.

309 debutaunt  Tue, May 13, 2008 3:47:54pm

re: #198 wahabicorridor

Re: the availability of Leon Uris' books - I found quite a few at Borders last summer. Have you tried Amazon? Even if you can't get them from Amazon directly, they probably have some resellers - and I've always had very good dealings with their resellers.

Re: Oskar Schindler. I wouldn't be so quick to judge his motives. There were less dangerous ways to make a reichmark.

Exactly!

310 Nevergiveup  Tue, May 13, 2008 3:48:13pm

re: #303 Russkilitlover

There is a difference in "knowing" that there were camps and having the military ability to do anything about it. I refuse to harbor "American Guilt" about not taking them out sooner. It was beyond our capabiities and British capabilities to penetrate that far into enemy terriorty.

That is simply not true as I have pointed out above. There was a petro-chemical plant at Auschwitz that was targeted and when some of those missed, the bombs did hit the death camps. Whether an effective raid of the camps was feasible is another story. Whether there was the will to take out the camps is also a complicated discussion.

311 WrathofG-d  Tue, May 13, 2008 3:48:53pm

re: #286 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Yes we agree again! But what I am trying to point out, and I hope it isn't missed, is that question of Jerusalem's soverignty is part of a much larger picture than just who controls the land.

Jerusalem goes straight to the soverignty of Judaism, the Jewish soul, and the Truth of the Judeo-Christian 'story'. (which says that Jerusalem is Jewish, and the land of Israel given to the Jews.)

The Nazis were tying to destroy the Jewish soul, the rightousness that was Jews and their place in the larger picture, the biblical prophecy, they were unable to scare the Jewishness out of the Jews so they had to take their bodies as consolation. The Arabs are attempting the same destruction of the Jewish people, by attempting (and being successful) in getting Israel to become secular, and surrender our beliefs. (ie: The Land of Israel is for Am Yisroel, as told by H'S Himself).

Islam is based on replacement theology. In short, their belief is that the old Book people (Jews and Christians) messed up and the World needed Mo to come in and give us the final unquestionable revelation. Thus, if the Jewish narrative is correct, Islam which contradicts it cannot be. Thus, it is necessary, according to Islam, for Islam to take over all the Rights of Judaism, and replace it with Islamic rights.

Taking Jerusalem has very little to do with land, and everything with destroying the Jewish soul, and Jewish "narrative".

312 NY Nana  Tue, May 13, 2008 3:50:36pm

re: #299 sparrowlake

Can't put it all online...my email is blue. For me, as I am 70, it was my grandparents' generation. I have photo albums from Vilna, Lithuania ...and a letter, but no other names. Any papers are gone. All I have are my Anglo/Jewish Grandfather's papers, and his papers from serving in the Spanish American War.

I am named in memory of both Grandfathers, who died in their 40's.

I think that it is with us subliminally every days of our lives, especially with the penchant for swatztikas that we see all over the world...and the neo-nazis that Charles has shown for what they are time and time again.

I am numb right now.

313 yochanan  Tue, May 13, 2008 3:51:25pm

me too sparrow.

my wife never talks about it but once a t.v. guy when talking about abortion showed a pic of one of the death camp ovens and my wife just totally lost it, I had never seen her cry like that, then it all came out. I guess she could not talk about it. It was a total unthoughtful reaction.

Back when we were in Israel we met her aunt/cousin and her husband who were concentration camp survivors. One thing i noticed is most people have extended families my wife doesn't.

314 JHW  Tue, May 13, 2008 3:51:31pm

re: #307 Occasional Reader

Thanks, I'll get a copy of Arendt's book, that's one I haven't read. I'm still searching for my copy of Dawidowicz' book so I can re-read about Bulgaria's role. Madisonsfriend in comment 302 mentions something along the lines of what I remember. I'm annoyed at myself for misplacing a book I was just looking at to back up my memory. Old age, bah.

315 yochanan  Tue, May 13, 2008 3:53:16pm

re: #302 madisonsfriend

the bulgarians were on hitlers to do list after they finished with the jews, romani, serbs, and others.

316 debutaunt  Tue, May 13, 2008 3:54:11pm

re: #238 jcm

It will break your heart.

317 sparrowlake  Tue, May 13, 2008 3:54:41pm

I need to get outta here.
Thanks for the post Charles and thanks to all of you for being here - sorry if I made anyone uncomfortable.
Later.

318 6pat6  Tue, May 13, 2008 3:54:57pm
Sendler was one of the first to be awarded Yad Vashem’s highest honor - she was declared a Righteous Gentile in 1965 for risking her life to save Jews during the Shoah - but it was only in her golden years that she received recognition from the Polish government, which, together with Holocaust survivor groups, nominated her for the Nobel Prize two years ago, after decades in which Communist governments frowned on her heroic actions.

And, yet, the rat-bastard Algore gets the fucking Nobel Peace Prize. There truly is no justice in this world.

Rest in Peace, Irena Sendler. The people that matter know what you did, and see you for the truly selfless and peaceful soul that you were. You deserve more honors than this world can possibly bestow to you.

319 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Tue, May 13, 2008 3:58:15pm
320 BBev  Tue, May 13, 2008 3:59:29pm

This may be a little OT but after reading this thread it makes me glad I live in the good old USA. This thread is why we must keep the second amendment strong and why we will never be invaded from within nor from anyone else. U.S. most armed country A vote for Obama could change this. Keep your ammo dry!

321 DistantThunder  Tue, May 13, 2008 4:01:06pm

I am a proud decedent of a long line of strong Poles.

322 DistantThunder  Tue, May 13, 2008 4:02:07pm

Oliver Stone isn't worthy to lick the soles of this woman's shoes much less make a movie about her.

323 NY Nana  Tue, May 13, 2008 4:02:33pm

re: #304 JHW

Damn. I wish there was never any need for it, but so many still deny the Shoah....and call a sneeze their 'Holocaust'...and they will never, ever change their minds, and will just continue to spread the Big Lie. And more and more believe it.

Stephen Speilberg has done something wonderful; he has a world-wide project to take interviews from survivors, and there is also the US Holocaust Museum that was too politicized far too much, IMHO.

ABC news has just shown a bit about the blessed Irena Sendler. Here is an earlier article from them.

324 yochanan  Tue, May 13, 2008 4:02:51pm

[Link: news.yahoo.com...]

she is now with G-D. MY G-D BLESS HER.

325 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Tue, May 13, 2008 4:04:27pm
326 Russkilitlover  Tue, May 13, 2008 4:05:03pm

re: #310 Nevergiveup

Whether there was the will to take out the camps is also a complicated discussion.

Please be very careful with this kind of thinly veiled accusation. When you are faced with a war, you need to plan all campaigns from a militarily success point of view. You go into a global for a humanitarian reason and you've lost - probably left your flanks and rears wide open, as well. Remember, Germany was a SUPERpower and in 41/42 quite capable of defeating the Allies.

327 Nevergiveup  Tue, May 13, 2008 4:07:24pm

re: #326 Russkilitlover

Please be very careful with this kind of thinly veiled accusation. When you are faced with a war, you need to plan all campaigns from a militarily success point of view. You go into a global for a humanitarian reason and you've lost - probably left your flanks and rears wide open, as well. Remember, Germany was a SUPERpower and in 41/42 quite capable of defeating the Allies.

I am not necessarily disagreeing with that point at all. But the allegation that the bombing of the death camps was not technically feasible is false.

328 JHW  Tue, May 13, 2008 4:08:19pm

More on Bulgaria's role in the Holocaust, just a quick Google search, brings up a lot that's new to me anyway.
US Holocaust Museum.......Bulgaria

In 1945, the Jewish population of Bulgaria was still about 50,000, its prewar level. Next to the rescue of Danish Jews, Bulgarian Jewry's escape from deportation and extermination represents the most significant exception of any Jewish population in Nazi-occupied Europe. Beginning in 1948, however, more than 35,000 Bulgarian Jews chose to emigrate to the new state of Israel.

ADL Honors Bulgaria for Saving Jews

And here's a somewhat more critical article, very interesting, from the United Jewish Communities.

Bulgaria Wasn't a Second Denmark

Berenbaum called the new allegations "a black mark for those who had been apologists for Bulgaria."Bulgaria had seen itself as ‘The Second Denmark,'" citizens rising up against the Nazi ideology, he said. "Such claims were exaggerated."
329 Nevergiveup  Tue, May 13, 2008 4:08:26pm

re: #327 Nevergiveup

I am not necessarily disagreeing with that point at all. But the allegation that the bombing of the death camps was not technically feasible is false.

And I made no accusation either veiled or overt.

330 WrathofG-d  Tue, May 13, 2008 4:10:15pm

OT(ish): A trip into the mind of the Phakestinian: After numerous years of "peace gestures" from Israel, and other messages to their enemy that they need to get their permission to do anything...the Phakestinian leadership opines on whether or not Israel is allowed to celebrate its 60th year of modern existance.

331 wanumba  Tue, May 13, 2008 4:11:51pm

re: #278 Nevergiveup

If I am not mistaken, there was a petro-chemical plant at Auschwitz that the Allies did target. So the facts are that the Allies could reach the camps, but for reasons never fully explained, they chose not to bomb.


One considers that the answer to that is simple. The best way to stop all of it was to defeat the Germans. The bombs were meant to destroy Germany's ability to wage war, the factories that produced the NAZI war machine - parts, ball bearings, assembly lines, anything that contrubted to the German military, concentrated depots of anything useful to the Germans.
It's a brutal brutal thing, but bombers had a limit - a limit to men who could fly them, a limit to the number of bombers, and for a long time, until the Allies could rule the skies by wrecking the Luftwaffe, bomber squadrons went up with the expectation that at least one and usually more would not come back. There were a limit to bombs, too. Tons of bombs were dropped on the wrong places due to faulty navigation, requiring extra and always dangerous flights to go back to targets that weren't taken out properly the first time. Planes crashed in bad weather, crew, plane and bomb payload lost. There were thousands of targets, but the military was forced by what it had to select the most effective use of their material.
Bombing a concentration camp would kill more prisoners than captors. Germans could easily construct another elsewhere or just force the prisoners to put it back together again and carry on with business.

It's not right to imply that there was something against helping Jews by not bombing concerntration camps. The biggest help to the Jews was defeating the NAZI regime. Millions of men travelled half the world to do it, too, a logistical marvel, fighting at a disadvantage on the enemy's home ground. The terrible mistake that was made, was made early on, by not standing up to Hitler when he was weak and vunerable; appeasement and "Peace in our time."

332 Nevergiveup  Tue, May 13, 2008 4:11:55pm

re: #330 WrathofG-d

OT(ish): A trip into the mind of the Phakestinian: After numerous years of "peace gestures" from Israel, and other messages to their enemy that they need to get their permission to do anything...the Phakestinian leadership opines on whether or not Israel is allowed to celebrate its 60th year of modern existance.

They can kiss my Jewish tukus!

333 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Tue, May 13, 2008 4:12:34pm
334 WrathofG-d  Tue, May 13, 2008 4:14:05pm

re: #332 Nevergiveup

re: #333 buzzsawmonkey

Did y'all read the article? Dispicable. Of course, the lie is repeated. "Hundreds of thousands of Palestinians were forcefully removed from their homes during the creation of Israel".

335 Nevergiveup  Tue, May 13, 2008 4:14:31pm

re: #331 wanumba

I never implied any such thing. The point was made that the bombing of the Auschwitz death camp was beyond the capability of the Allies. I simply pointed out that was false. Period. I said ANY discussion of motives is very complicated and I offered no opinion either way.

336 savage_nation[deleted]  Tue, May 13, 2008 4:16:42pm
337 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Tue, May 13, 2008 4:17:04pm
338 NY Nana  Tue, May 13, 2008 4:17:58pm

re: #325 buzzsawmonkey

No matter how many ways Spielberg documents it, the troofers deniers will still insist that the Holocaust was an inside job.

I agree. But at least Spielberg left something good for posterity, that supersedes his movies...

Got to get off this thread for awhile. It is too painful.

What one Irena Sendler did? It confirms that in the midst of such unimaginable evil, there are those who are so good and so caring that they knowingly risk their own lives in order to save others.

May her memory live on as a blessing for all...and a magnificent example. We can never replace the Six Million plus, but with heroes like her, many, many families now know they owe their lives to her. Can you imagine the size of a gathering in her honor of the survivors and their families?

339 WrathofG-d  Tue, May 13, 2008 4:19:39pm

re: #337 buzzsawmonkey

Did you notice in the article that Israeli-Arabs, and Arab students in Israel's universities are going to "mourn" the "nakba" from within Israel herself?

ungrateful Traitors!

340 ainchreidmheach, like  Tue, May 13, 2008 4:25:14pm

re: #224 Ben Hur

Nope, born in raised in Galway, Ireland.

341 wanumba  Tue, May 13, 2008 4:26:04pm

re: #335 Nevergiveup
Sorry to say that your post came off like that. Oddly, we were watching 12 O'Clock High just last night so the American daylight bombing campaign subject was fresh in my mind.

It's a hard hard thing. Let's be positive and thank God for raising up people like Madame Sendler, ordinary people who performed extraordinary acts of heroism amidst horrors and mortal danger.

342 Nevergiveup  Tue, May 13, 2008 4:34:51pm

re: #341 wanumba

Sorry to say that your post came off like that. Oddly, we were watching 12 O'Clock High just last night so the American daylight bombing campaign subject was fresh in my mind.

It's a hard hard thing. Let's be positive and thank God for raising up people like Madame Sendler, ordinary people who performed extraordinary acts of heroism amidst horrors and mortal danger.

Fair enough.

343 Catawba  Tue, May 13, 2008 4:49:44pm

Those were desperate times indeed:

"Here I am, a stranger, asking them to place their child in my care. They ask if I can guarantee their safety. I have to answer no. Sometimes they would give me their child. Other times they would say come back. I would come back a few days later and the family had already been deported."
344 Warm Mountain  Tue, May 13, 2008 5:20:54pm

Newbie here.
I taught 8th grade Language Arts for many years, and my favorite time of the year was when we studied Anne Frank and the Holocaust. Some students read Anne's novel while others studied the play. Some of my students were able to take a field trip to the Holocaust Museum in Houston. Many tears were shed, and bus ride home was somber. Toward the exit of the tour was a small movie theater. We watched some interviews from the Spielberg Shoah project. One of my boys disappeared during the movie. I found him outside the door, pressed against the wall, eyes filled with tears, shaky and pale. He kept repeating, "I never realized. I never realized."
As teachers of my generation have retired, fewer and fewer of the younger teachers are including the Holocaust and Anne Frank in their curriculum. Such a loss.

345 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Tue, May 13, 2008 5:22:38pm
346 EE  Tue, May 13, 2008 5:25:46pm

Irena Sendler, a courageous and truly righteous person -- rest in peace.

347 Syrah  Tue, May 13, 2008 5:30:58pm

An ordinary person who became extraordinary because she was willing to do what was right even when it was forbidden.

We should all pray for such courage.

We must all act with as much courage when such times come again.

In life, there is no second take.

348 Warm Mountain  Tue, May 13, 2008 5:32:22pm

re: #345 buzzsawmonkey

The Diary of Anne Frank

349 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Tue, May 13, 2008 5:44:00pm
350 J.S.  Tue, May 13, 2008 5:46:10pm

re: #290 yochanan

If I recall correctly, we've been over this before. It was not "one is too many" and it was not said by a Prime Minister of Canada (although zero entrance for Jews was the adopted policy of Prime Minister William Lyon Mackenzie King). (btw, there are those who say, "one nazi living in Canada is one too many.")

The statement was "None is too many" that's None is too many. And it was said by some unidentified Canadian immigration agent at the time. There's a book available with the title "None is too many" -- by Irving Abella and Harold Troper.

351 least  Tue, May 13, 2008 5:50:27pm

Yep, just another deluded Christianist living out her faith.
Ain't that right, Salem.

352 docremulac  Tue, May 13, 2008 5:52:23pm

She stood up to the "progressives" of her time in order to protect the innocent.

Are we strong enough to do the same?

353 darkster2400  Tue, May 13, 2008 5:54:20pm

May she rest in Gan Eden.

354 nyc redneck  Tue, May 13, 2008 5:54:31pm

i'm moved to tears by irena sendler's story. she is a beautiful amazing person who could have easily done nothing and no one would have faulted her. but she rose to the occasion. she helped so many suffering children. what an example she sets for us. how empowering to know the heros are often just regular people who simply do the right thing. i love her. may she rest in peace.

355 KSK  Tue, May 13, 2008 6:08:41pm

Don't know but I'm rather glad that they didn't give her the Nobel Prize.

To be in company with Yasser would just be an insult.

356 Syrah  Tue, May 13, 2008 6:48:54pm

re: #355 KSK

Don't know but I'm rather glad that they didn't give her the Nobel Prize.

To be in company with Yasser would just be an insult.

To say nothing of being in the company of Jimmy Carter.

357 big L  Tue, May 13, 2008 7:49:39pm

All this wonderful life brought tears to my eyes.
REad "Life in a Jar"
RIP Irena Sendler....

358 Jetziger  Tue, May 13, 2008 8:19:57pm

May the LORD bless Irena Sendler and her memory, and inspire our own hearts to similar courage.

GOD BLESS ISRAEL!

359 mikecron  Tue, May 13, 2008 8:59:29pm
360 Jed  Wed, May 14, 2008 6:32:59am

I don't believe in god, but in this case, may her god bless her and keep her in heaven for eternity.

There are some good people in this world. There is hope.

361 Apple77  Wed, May 14, 2008 6:39:28am

It's... disgusting.... that someone like Gore could win a 'peace' prize when someone like Sendler was also in the running. The Nobel Peace Prize is not what it used to be.


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