LGF

more options

  

Advertisement

Church of England: UK Will Be an Islamic State in 30 Years

Wed, May 28, 2008 at 11:45:22 am PDT

At the Church of England’s official newspaper, an extraordinary (in a very bad way) editorial says Britain will be an Islamic state within 30 years.

If recent reports of trends in religious observance prove to be correct, then in some 30 years the mosque will be able to claim that, religiously speaking, the UK is an Islamic nation, and therefore needs a share in any religious establishment to reflect this. The progress of conservative Islam in the UK has been amazing, and it has come at a time of prolonged decline in church attendance that seems likely to continue.

This progress has been enthusiastically assisted by this government in particular with its hard-line multi-cultural dogma and willingness to concede to virtually every demand made by Muslims. Perhaps most importantly the government has chosen to allow hard-liners to act as representing all Muslims, and more liberal Muslims have almost completely failed to produce any leadership voices to compete, leading many Britons to wonder if there are indeed many liberal Muslims at all, surely a mistake.

At all levels of national life Islam has gained state funding, protection from any criticism, and the insertion of advisors and experts in government departs national and local. A Muslim Home Office adviser, for example, was responsible for Baroness Scotland’s aborting of the legislation against honour killings, arguing that informal methods would be better. In the police we hear of girls under police protection having the addresses of their safe houses disclosed to their parents by Muslim officers who think they are doing their religious duty.

Read it all, and weep.

(Hat tip: Robert Jago.)

Advertisement

581 comments

  • Comments are open and unmoderated, and do not necessarily reflect the views of Little Green Footballs.
  • Obscene, abusive, silly, or annoying remarks may be deleted, but the fact that particular comments remain on the site in no way constitutes an endorsement of their views by Little Green Footballs.
  • Posts that contain phone numbers, street addresses, email addresses or other personal information will also be deleted, as will posts that consist only of a variation on the word, "First!"
  • Comments that advocate violence will be cause for immediate banning with no appeal.
  • Disagreement and debate are welcome, but insults and abuse are not, and may cause your account to be blocked.
  • REMEMBER: posting comments at LGF is a privilege, not a right. Abuse that privilege, and your account will be blocked.

Hide comments | Jump to bottom

1 Eowyn2  Wed, May 28, 2008 11:47:18am
more liberal Muslims have almost completely failed to produce any leadership voices to compete, leading many Britons to wonder if there are indeed many liberal Muslims at all, surely a mistake.

ITS BECAUSE THEY HAVE ALREADY BEEN SILENCED.

2 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  Wed, May 28, 2008 11:48:05am

So much for defending the faith or the faithful

3 joncelli  Wed, May 28, 2008 11:48:15am

As Henry VIII's body achieves high RPMs in his grave.

4 chinesearithmetic  Wed, May 28, 2008 11:48:18am

What's there for God to save?

5 lawhawk  Wed, May 28, 2008 11:48:57am

Words I hope never to hear:

Who lost Britain to the Islamists?

6 markie  Wed, May 28, 2008 11:49:40am

It's 1933 all over again!

7 Sleepyone  Wed, May 28, 2008 11:49:44am
In the police we hear of girls under police protection having the addresses of their safe houses disclosed to their parents by Muslim officers who think they are doing their religious duty.

That's f'd up.

8 JamesTKirk  Wed, May 28, 2008 11:49:54am

Arrest Bolton, that will make it all better.

/

9 MandyManners  Wed, May 28, 2008 11:49:56am
more liberal Muslims have almost completely failed to produce any leadership voices to compete, leading many Britons to wonder if there are indeed many liberal Muslims at all

If they exist, they're probably scared witless to come forward.

10 JohnnyReb  Wed, May 28, 2008 11:49:59am

I give them about 15 years max myself.

11 jcm  Wed, May 28, 2008 11:50:12am

Church of England surrenders to Stan.

12 joncelli  Wed, May 28, 2008 11:50:14am
Perhaps most importantly the government has chosen to allow hard-liners to act as representing all Muslims, and more liberal Muslims have almost completely failed to produce any leadership voices to compete, leading many Britons to wonder if there are indeed many liberal Muslims at all, surely a mistake.

Are you quite certain about that?

13 redc1c4  Wed, May 28, 2008 11:50:26am

and yet they're still looking for "liberal muslims"....... WTF?

you can't find what doesn't exist.

14 JamesTKirk  Wed, May 28, 2008 11:50:35am

re: #11 jcm

Church of England surrenders to Stan.

They're all out of cake. Only one choice left.

15 Dayenu  Wed, May 28, 2008 11:50:47am

I guess Churchill was right that World War 2 was Britain's finest hour, 'cause this surely ain't!

16 reloadingisnotahobby  Wed, May 28, 2008 11:51:10am

30 years?
Let's see... That would be 2038....
Hm ? What happened 100 years before?
1938? I'll have to think on this.....

17 Abu Boo Boo  Wed, May 28, 2008 11:51:12am
A Muslim Home Office adviser, for example, was responsible for Baroness Scotland’s aborting of the legislation against honour killings, arguing that informal methods would be better. In the police we hear of girls under police protection having the addresses of their safe houses disclosed to their parents by Muslim officers who think they are doing their religious duty.

We are witnessing the slow death of Western civilization.

18 republic  Wed, May 28, 2008 11:51:27am

I sure am glad that the U.S. Constitution gaurentees that there will never be a state run religion in the USA.

/sarc

"OK class, today, and for the next several months, we are going to study Islam, you will all take a Muslim name, and we will study how Islam is a religion of peace."

No sarc!

19 reloadingisnotahobby  Wed, May 28, 2008 11:51:39am

re: #6 markie

It's 1933 all over again!

Hah! You beat me to it!

20 Occasional Reader  Wed, May 28, 2008 11:51:45am
an extraordinary (in a very bad way) editorial

I'd actually characterize this as an extraordinarily FRANK, honest editorial. I mean, some of the language is positively lizardian:

This progress [of Islam] has been enthusiastically assisted by this government in particular with its hard-line multi-cultural dogma and willingness to concede to virtually every demand made by Muslims.

21 Abu Boo Boo  Wed, May 28, 2008 11:52:45am

I figured it out.

John Bolton's speech at the Hay Festival is just a cover. He's really there to help organize the underground resistance to the IslamoNazis.

/I hope

22 Ringo the Gringo  Wed, May 28, 2008 11:52:55am
30 Years

I have a dark feeling that some thing very ugly will ensue before then.

23 thebronze  Wed, May 28, 2008 11:53:13am

re: #10 JohnnyReb

I give them about 15 years max myself.

If that...

24 JamesTKirk  Wed, May 28, 2008 11:53:18am

re: #20 Occasional Reader

Of course, they don't mention how little resistance the C of E has mustered up against this...

25 TalkinKamel  Wed, May 28, 2008 11:53:24am

I wonder why the British government is so eager to turn itself over to Islam?

(Does Prince Chuckles really think they'll make him Caliph?)

26 Killgore Trout  Wed, May 28, 2008 11:53:29am

I'm not sure what he's getting at here....

Charles Taylor’s new and classic work on the Secular Age charts the rise of the secular mindset and what he calls the ‘excarnation’ of Christianity as it is levered out of state policy and structures. Christianity is now regarded as bad news, the liberal elite’s attack developed in the 1960s took root in the educationalist empire, and to some extent even in areas of the church.

Today the Christian story is fading from public imagination, while Islam grows apace. There needs to be some fresh thinking in this area where the claims of Christ are sensitively explained. Our church leaders must develop ways of explaining this, as our feature on mission and evangelism this week demonstrates.

Is he blaming secularism for the decline of Christianity?

27 Bubblehead II  Wed, May 28, 2008 11:53:33am

re: #11 jcm

Old news, they already did.

Archbishop of Canterbury: Sharia in UK is 'Unavoidable'

28 coquimbojoe  Wed, May 28, 2008 11:53:45am

Hey, maybe they should just take my bacon sandwich right now...

29 rabidsquirrel  Wed, May 28, 2008 11:54:21am
If recent reports of trends in religious observance prove to be correct, then in some 30 years the mosque will be able to claim that, religiously speaking, the UK is an Islamic nation, and therefore needs a share in any religious establishment to reflect this.

Prince Charles, for one, welcomes his new Islamic overlords

/channeling Kent Brockman

30 republic  Wed, May 28, 2008 11:54:27am

re: #9 MandyManners

If they exist, they're probably scared witless to come forward.

If there are a billion Muslims worldwide, and nearly every voice says that it is only a small faction of "radicals", who have "highjacked their religion", and say that number of "radicals" is around a million, that would then leave about 999 million "moderate" Muslims.

Somethings not adding up here, and it isn't my math.

31 shibumi  Wed, May 28, 2008 11:54:43am

Correct me if I'm wrong (and I may very well be wrong) but isn't the Church of England the Anglican church? And wasn't it the Anglican church that proclaimed a while back that the most responsible thing a member of their church could do for the planet was NOT to reproduce? If this is indeed correct, then wouldn't the C of E be dead in England in the future regardless of Islam?

32 Slumbering Behemoth  Wed, May 28, 2008 11:54:46am
A Muslim Home Office adviser, for example, was responsible for Baroness Scotland’s aborting of the legislation against honour killings, arguing that informal methods would be better.

Murder is already illegal, just enforce the f*cking law. That's a no-brainer.

In the police we hear of girls under police protection having the addresses of their safe houses disclosed to their parents by Muslim officers who think they are doing their religious duty.

Oh, right. Silly me, what was I thinking?

That last bit is extremely troubling, as we have heard it reported many times before. How long before such reports become commonplace here in the States?

33 TalkinKamel  Wed, May 28, 2008 11:55:13am

re: #24 JamesTKirk

The C of E is dead. It can't muster up any resistance. It's an ex C of E. It's pining or the Fjords. (Baning church of England against wooden counter.) WAKE UP POLLY! WAKE UP, C OF E! WAKE UUUUUUUUUP!

I wish somebody would go in, steal C.S. Lewis' body, and spirit it away to the United States. Of course, he must be turning in that grave, to see the death of Christianity in England, and what England's become.

34 ointmentfly  Wed, May 28, 2008 11:55:28am

Don't forget the rest of Europe....

They should create a law that states the number of mosques in England may never exceed the number of churches in Saudi Arabia....

35 cszwed  Wed, May 28, 2008 11:55:30am

Lets give them the keys now!

36 coquimbojoe  Wed, May 28, 2008 11:55:50am

re: #29 rabidsquirrel

I will welcome them too, as long as there are chips orbiting my head.

37 unreconstructed rebel  Wed, May 28, 2008 11:55:57am

The only anglican communioners left with any stones are all in Africa. The US, Canada, England, Scotland & Wales have all been overrun by leftists polital pressure groups and the UN's MDGs have replaced the Gospel.

38 republic  Wed, May 28, 2008 11:56:02am

How many nukes does the U.K. have?

That's an interesting thought, although, rest assured, they're "moderate" Muslims.

/

39 TalkinKamel  Wed, May 28, 2008 11:56:02am

re: #31 shibumi

The C of E's dead, and Prince Charles is the Man Who Would be Caliph.

40 Agahnim  Wed, May 28, 2008 11:56:18am

That's not good.

With the trend of Europe moving left and away from Christianity, however, I'm not terribly surprised to see the vacuum is being filled.

41 TalkinKamel  Wed, May 28, 2008 11:56:31am

re: #38 republic

If this continues, we might find ourselves at war with an Islamic Britain some day. . .

42 Occasional Reader  Wed, May 28, 2008 11:56:41am

re: #24 JamesTKirk

Of course, they don't mention how little resistance the C of E has mustered up against this...

Fine, I'll take it. Am I the only one pleasantly surprised to read such a frank assessment of the situation in a C of E newsletter?

43 Ringo the Gringo  Wed, May 28, 2008 11:56:50am

The Leftists and Secularists of Great Britain are not going to be happy when their Gramcian plans leave them living, not in a socialist Utopia, but rather in a more religious and intolerant society than the one they have worked so hard to deconstruct.

44 JamesTKirk  Wed, May 28, 2008 11:56:54am

re: #34 ointmentfly

They should create a law that states the number of mosques in England may never exceed the number of churches in Saudi Arabia Mons Olympus...
45 Eowyn2  Wed, May 28, 2008 11:56:55am

re: #17 Abu Boo Boo

You'd think that murder is murder.

46 TalkinKamel  Wed, May 28, 2008 11:57:49am

re: #26 Killgore Trout

I think you do see what he's getting at, Killgore, you just don't want to.

47 kynna  Wed, May 28, 2008 11:57:51am

There are no moderate muslims. If they are moderate at all they are either in hiding or apostates. They cannot follow Islam and be moderate. The two things just don't go together. Every time a moderate voice is raised in muslim society it is squashed. Every moderate movement is taken over or killed.

It's been that way throughout history. Yes, there is evidence of rational, moderate Islam. There's also ample evidence of that rational, moderate Islam being snuffed out with impunity again and again and again.

48 JamesTKirk  Wed, May 28, 2008 11:57:51am

re: #42 Occasional Reader

Fine, I'll take it. Am I the only one pleasantly surprised to read such a frank assessment of the situation in a C of E newsletter?

It's a nice change, but worthless if it doesn't lead to action. Otherwise, it's just a eulogy.

49 republic  Wed, May 28, 2008 11:58:00am

re: #31 shibumi

Correct me if I'm wrong (and I may very well be wrong) but isn't the Church of England the Anglican church? And wasn't it the Anglican church that proclaimed a while back that the most responsible thing a member of their church could do for the planet was NOT to reproduce? If this is indeed correct, then wouldn't the C of E be dead in England in the future regardless of Islam?


Maybe if they'd actually read their Holy Bibles, they'd see there is nothing in the Bible about not reproducing, in fact, there is much Scripture to the contrary.

This is what happens when the left takes over anything and everything.

50 Slumbering Behemoth  Wed, May 28, 2008 11:58:04am

re: #11 jcm

Church of England surrenders to Stan.

I didn't read that as a letter of surrender, but more of a "Hey people, wake the f*ck up" kind of letter.

/water's getting hotter

51 wolfie  Wed, May 28, 2008 11:58:14am

re: #20 Occasional Reader

I would, too.
The author seems to me to be lamenting what is happening and is issuing a wake-up call to the Church and England as a whole.
The fact that it is appearing in an official publication of the usually moonbatty CoE is actually a good sign.

52 Cap'n DOC  Wed, May 28, 2008 11:58:33am

re: #1 Eowyn2

mohammedans are mohammedans. It makes no difference how much alcohol you consume if you're an alcoholic. Samey-samey.

53 SevoGuy  Wed, May 28, 2008 11:58:36am

Do not believe this article. Remember, the Europeans will never let it happen. The next islamic jihadi event occurring in England will be the beginning of the end of islam in the UK. Another point to bring up is that two world wars were started by the Europeans the last century.

We will see.....................

54 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  Wed, May 28, 2008 11:58:41am

re: #42 Occasional Reader

Fine, I'll take it. Am I the only one pleasantly surprised to read such a frank assessment of the situation in a C of E newsletter?

It depends on how they plan to address the issue.

55 Ringo the Gringo  Wed, May 28, 2008 11:58:47am

re: #26 Killgore Trout

I'm not sure what he's getting at here....

Is he blaming secularism for the decline of Christianity?

Of course, why wouldn't he?

56 ointmentfly  Wed, May 28, 2008 11:59:04am

re: #44 JamesTKirk

....Mars works for me...

57 maddogg  Wed, May 28, 2008 11:59:12am

England in 30, U.S. in 40. And won't we all be appalled?

58 Occasional Reader  Wed, May 28, 2008 11:59:24am

I forecast HUGE islamist seething over this piece, with a possibility of scattered riots.

59 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Wed, May 28, 2008 11:59:31am

re: #42 Occasional Reader

Fine, I'll take it. Am I the only one pleasantly surprised to read
such a frank assessment of the situation in a C of E newsletter?


I'm with you, OR. This is the same C o E that only last year seemed happy about the prospect of sharia law.

60 rabidsquirrel  Wed, May 28, 2008 11:59:32am

re: #42 Occasional Reader

No, I had the same take as you. It was actually refreshing to read an honest assessment of the situation. Apparently, even the CoE is able to pull its collective head out of its a**, albeit too infrequently to do much good.

61 reloadingisnotahobby  Wed, May 28, 2008 11:59:46am

I wonder how they feel now,being a "disarmed"...public!
Many knickers will be showing while they bend over in prayer
or to kiss they're a$$es goodbye

62 TalkinKamel  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:00:04pm

re: #3 joncelli

Henry's body is as nothing, compared to the gyrations C.S. Lewis' and J.R.R. Tolkien's bodies are performing at the moment!

(Okay, American Inklings! Pass the hat, hire some mercs and get the bodies of the two great writers smuggled out of England, before the Islamists take over!)

63 kwistie  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:00:12pm

re: #3 joncelli

As Henry VIII's body achieves high RPMs in his grave.


Actually his daughter, Elizabeth I, is probably the one turning in her grave. She's the one who really solidified the C of E.

Henry was just a Catholic wanting a divorce from his first wife...

64 jcm  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:00:19pm

re: #50 Slumbering Behemoth

I didn't read that as a letter of surrender, but more of a "Hey people, wake the f*ck up" kind of letter.

/water's getting hotter

Given previous statements by the Archbishop of the CE, I wouldn't read as a wake up call.

65 yma o hyd  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:00:28pm

Weep indeed - all those who think their only choice is between weeping and leaving.

Yes, its bad, and no amount of whitewashing will make it better.
This is the root cause:
"Christianity is now regarded as bad news, the liberal elite’s attack developed in the 1960s took root in the educationalist empire, ..."
(from the linked article) - but the point surely cannot be to just wail!

We've got to start turning things around - as has also been said in the article:
"There needs to be some fresh thinking in this area where the claims of Christ are sensitively explained. Our church leaders must develop ways of explaining this, as our feature on mission and evangelism this week demonstrates."

Just so - it may take a while, it certainly will not be easy, but giving up just because things look bleak at the moment?
No way!
Even work at grass root levels is helping.
(I loathe giver-upers! My motto is: 'Look for the terrier inside yourself ...'!)

66 TalkinKamel  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:00:34pm

re: #48 JamesTKirk

And that's the problem; the C of E just doesn't seem to have to cojones to take action any more.

67 spacejesus  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:00:44pm

what a load of malarkey.

they're just trying to boost church attendance.

68 Occasional Reader  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:00:57pm

Hell, this piece will probably be Banned in Canada, if Mark Steyn's experience is any indication.

69 hydrocarbon hank  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:01:12pm

...maybe sooner if Louie can get the mothership running again.

70 Eowyn2  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:01:16pm

re: #32 Slumbering Behemoth

Oh, right. Silly me, what was I thinking?

That last bit is extremely troubling, as we have heard it reported many times before. How long before such reports become commonplace here in the States?

I get visions of entire families hiding in Priest holes. Roundheads burning churches...........

71 syndicate  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:01:26pm

Just wait until the destruction of all of the historic churches and abbeys starts to take place. It will make the talibans destruction of the buddahs in Afghanistan look like childs play.

I suspect that Westminister will be the first to come down and the remains buried under the floors dragged out and burned in the streets.

72 nyc redneck  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:01:45pm

i don't believe it's going to happen. i'm not giving up yet.

73 yma o hyd  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:02:06pm

re: #24 JamesTKirk

The official one, in the form of some prominent Bishops - but the CofE does not consist of one or two bishops alone, ya know!

74 Slumbering Behemoth  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:02:24pm

re: #64 jcm

It did seem more like a warning/alarm call to me, but maybe not. At times I can be overly optimistic.

75 unreconstructed rebel  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:02:46pm

re: #62 TalkinKamel

Problem is the american version (The Episcopal Church or The Episcopal Organization, depending on your point of view) is funding the rot. Trinity Wall Street is pouring dead men's money into the damnest ideas.

76 Shr_Nfr  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:02:56pm

Given the asshat they have for the Archbishop of Canterbury, I'm hardly surprised.

77 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:03:00pm

re: #62 TalkinKamel

Henry's body is as nothing, compared to the gyrations C.S. Lewis' and J.R.R. Tolkien's bodies are performing at the moment!

(Okay,
American Inklings! Pass the hat, hire some mercs and get the bodies of
the two great writers smuggled out of England, before the Islamists
take over!)

I have an idea for a comic book about the not-too-distant islamic future. The opening panels are of the last British soldiers disinterring Churchill & smuggling his coffin & the Crown Jewels away to America in a C-130.

78 wolfie  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:03:02pm

re: #54 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

It depends on how they plan to address the issue.

Exactly.

To be sure, you have to admit there's a problem before you can take steps to address it, so we can glad they're at least doing that.

But as you say, what now?

79 jemima  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:03:08pm

We have always been at war with Englandistan

80 Roger  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:03:15pm

Look on the bright side; the lousy Christians will be pushed back and underground

81 Charles  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:03:18pm

re: #42 Occasional Reader

Fine, I'll take it. Am I the only one pleasantly surprised to read such a frank assessment of the situation in a C of E newsletter?

No, I'm a bit surprised too, that they actually mention some serious problems. It's not like them.

But it's a pretty defeatist editorial, and it's disturbing to see even the normally very leftist, oblivious C of E thinking this way.

82 jcbunga  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:03:26pm

Monthy Python redo:

Mullah Ahmed approaches the peasants working in the fields: "I am your Mullah!"

Peasant: "I didn't vote for ya..."

"Bloody Dhimmi's..."

83 stuiec  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:03:33pm

The Brits may not do much to defend their right to a Church of England...

... but wait until the new Muslim rulers try to take away their lager, ale and whisky!

84 republic  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:03:42pm

re: #26 Killgore Trout

I'm not sure what he's getting at here....

Is he blaming secularism for the decline of Christianity?

Secularism has been around since the beginning of mankind, however, leftism has only been around for about 60 years.

Christianity grew just fine, while secularism has been around, however, since the power and voice of leftism has been around, it has dramatically been under attack.

Even the power of the Romans, who ruled the world, couldn't stop Christianity, regardless of how many Christians they slaughtered.

I have no problems with seculars, atheists, etc, but I despise leftists, regardless of what they claim to be.

85 shibumi  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:03:45pm

re: #43 Ringo the Gringo

The Leftists and Secularists of Great Britain are not going to be happy when their Gramcian plans leave them living, not in a socialist Utopia, but rather in a more religious and intolerant society than the one they have worked so hard to deconstruct.

I've always found liberals to be a mass of contradictions, and suspect that there's a lot of self hatred going on inside of them. Consequently, they may be engaging, as a group, in an exercise that indeed will put them collectively in a position (living under Islam) that proves to them how worthless they are and indeed punishes them.

/hopefully making sense, have sort of a headache, should be able to think of the right psycho babble words, but can't at the moment.

86 nyc redneck  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:04:06pm

re: #65 yma o hyd

GMTA,
(moslems in britain are only 2.8% of the population. there's still time.)

87 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:04:24pm
88 JamesTKirk  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:04:45pm

re: #81 Charles

But it's a pretty defeatist editorial, and it's disturbing to see even the normally very leftist, oblivious C of E thinking this way.

It's long on grievances and short on solutions. "Oh woe is me" hardly inspires hope.

89 Shr_Nfr  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:05:13pm

re: #63 kwistie

Excuse me, the current queen is Elizabeth 1 if you are from Scotland.

90 JamesTKirk  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:05:16pm

re: #83 stuiec

The Brits may not do much to defend their right to a Church of England...

... but wait until the new Muslim rulers try to take away their lager, ale and whisky!

The muslim rulers will be the ones with guns.

91 tradewind  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:05:22pm

re: #51 wolfie

Coincdentally, I listened to a podcast of sermons from an Episcopal Church that I get weekly and the priest actually told the congregation present (Sun before Memorial Day) how proud they were to have _____ and ______ (members of various active duty military services, and some in training) in the pews and offered a prayer of thanksgiving for their service. Their IS hope for the faith I grew up in after all, and not just in my southern conservative parish.
It was so great to hear when usually everything from the ECUS is like listening to democrat talking points from the People's Republic of Berkeley.

92 Who Watches the Watchmen?  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:05:57pm

re: #54 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

It depends on how they plan to address the issue.

I'm thinking it's raising a white flag, packing up the Host, moving out of the rectory, and leaving the keys under the doormat for the next occupant.

93 republic  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:06:12pm

re: #43 Ringo the Gringo

The Leftists and Secularists of Great Britain are not going to be happy when their Gramcian plans leave them living, not in a socialist Utopia, but rather in a more religious and intolerant society than the one they have worked so hard to deconstruct.

You are spot on!

"Be careful for what you wish for"

But the leftists are so arrogant, they think that "this time", things will be different.

It would actually be interesting to watch.

94 ointmentfly  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:06:28pm

re: #66 TalkinKamel

re: #84 republic


..... and Islam always seems to fill the void....

95 JamesTKirk  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:06:51pm

re: #93 republic

It would actually be interesting to watch.

From a safe distance.

Like Mons Olympus.

/my summer home

96 shibumi  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:06:53pm

re: #53 SevoGuy

Another point to bring up is that two world wars were started by the Europeans the last century.

Although the last two world wars were started in Europe, they were WON by Americans.

Europe doesn't want to fight. When a culture will not fight for it's existence, it is impotent. That's why it's so easy for Islam to make incursions.

And if there is a war, look to Europe to come crying to the U.S. to get them out of it.

97 Ojoe  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:07:11pm

These all hang in the balance.

Canterbury Cathedral

Durham Cathedral

Salisbury Cathedral

And here is the website of the Queen of England. One of her titles is "Defender of the Faith" I believe a letter to her asking her to intervene in this suicidal madness is in order. You can find the address on the website. I wrote her a while ago about the Bishop of Canterbury, and her reply said she does not interfere in the day-to-day running of the Church of England but perhaps she will reconsider.


British Monarchy Website

98 Slumbering Behemoth  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:07:18pm

re: #70 Eowyn2

No hiding in priest holes for me. I'm not a soldier, nor a super-hero, nor a bad-ass, but I am an American. That's gotta count for something. Let the children fill the bunkers, I'll be on the wall.

99 Eowyn2  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:07:37pm

re: #25 TalkinKamel

I wonder why the British government is so eager to turn itself over to Islam?

(Does Prince Chuckles really think they'll make him Caliph?)


No, he figures his mom will not let loose the reins until he's off boating with Camilla.

100 reine.de.tout  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:07:40pm

re: #26 Killgore Trout

I'm not sure what he's getting at here....


Is he blaming secularism for the decline of Christianity?

I believe he is, and I think the argument has some merit. The churches themselves are at fault, also, including my own, the Catholic Church. As they give in to "secularism", in an attempt to "modernize", they lose the strength of the faith that people believe in, replacing it with moral relativism.

If I recall correctly, Christian churches are doing best in those countries that have not yet given in to "secularization".

I'm not saying that churches should not modernize. I'm just saying I think they've gone about it the wrong way.

101 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:08:28pm

It certainly lacks a "Stand, Men of the West" quality.

Hell, I'd even take a "I'm mad as hell" speach.

This seems like a "yup, we're royally fucked now, more tea?" kind of article

102 TalkinKamel  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:08:30pm

re: #65 yma o hyd

But, despite my doubts, I'm hoping, somehow, the C of E can turn things around.

However---and this is a biggie, and it's one of the things that makes me fear for Europe in general---if it does turn things around, it's going to have to change. It's going to have to drop all the leftist/secularist thinking, and become a new, tough, evangelical, C of E. Heck, it might have to study up on American Protestant denominations, and---dare I say it?----the Catholic Church, in order to better evangelize and educate.

And this is the real problem. I believe the C of E could prevail. I believe Europe can prevail. But, in both cases, in order to do so, they'll have to drop their labour party/statist/ soft Marxist/ anti-Israel, anti-American worldview; they'll have to come up with new programs and rediscover a love for their own history, a respect for rule of law and a love for Judeo/Christian heritage. The Church of England: liberal, weak-kneed, accomodating, hoping for salvation from Liberal Moslems, can't win. A rejuvinated Church of England just might. It's the rejuvanation that's gonna be the hard part.

103 Ward Cleaver  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:09:12pm

Thirty?!? I give them 15, max.

104 Eowyn2  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:09:38pm

re: #71 syndicate

Just wait until the destruction of all of the historic churches and abbeys starts to take place. It will make the talibans destruction of the buddahs in Afghanistan look like childs play.

I suspect that Westminister will be the first to come down and the remains buried under the floors dragged out and burned in the streets.

silly, it will be proven with Muslim Science and Muslim History that Westminster is really the 408th most holy Muslim site and is really a mosque. We can tell by the early mosque designs in Spain that Westminster was built along the same lines then was over-run by infidels and apostates.

105 Killgore Trout  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:09:42pm

re: #37 unreconstructed rebel

The only anglican communioners left with any stones are all in Africa.

This article is just one in a series over the past few weeks. See:Church is not doing enough to convert UK Muslims, says bishop
They're starting to wake up. However I think it's important for them to help save the UK, The Catholic churrch should be doing the same thing in the rest of Europe but I think it's important that they don't start pushing back against secularism. They have a tendency to blame secular society for the failings of Christianity.

106 republic  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:09:44pm

re: #98 Slumbering Behemoth

No hiding in priest holes for me. I'm not a soldier, nor a super-hero, nor a bad-ass, but I am an American. That's gotta count for something. Let the children fill the bunkers, I'll be on the wall.

Kudos!

I'll be right with ya, although I will not under any circumstances end up against any wall.

107 Slumbering Behemoth  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:10:30pm

re: #83 stuiec

... but wait until the new Muslim rulers try to take away their lager, ale and whisky!

That may cause some tremors, but just wait until they try to take away their football soccer. The very foundations of the earth will quake.

108 Pyrocles  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:10:31pm

Exactly. Leftists are petrified of the "Religious Right", and suck up to the Islamists. They have no idea what they're doing... When Islamists outnumber the dreaded "Religious Right", the Left will have a worse problem than they ever imagined.

re: #43 Ringo the Gringo

The Leftists and Secularists of Great Britain are not going to be happy when their Gramcian plans leave them living, not in a socialist Utopia, but rather in a more religious and intolerant society than the one they have worked so hard to deconstruct.

109 TalkinKamel  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:10:31pm

re: #85 shibumi

Frankly, I think it's just plain old justice if Liberals end up living in the very hell they've got planned for the rest of us.

110 Eowyn2  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:10:57pm

re: #98 Slumbering Behemoth

No hiding in priest holes for me. I'm not a soldier, nor a super-hero, nor a bad-ass, but I am an American. That's gotta count for something. Let the children fill the bunkers, I'll be on the wall.

Is there room for a gun totin gramma beside you.

No grand daughter of mine will be forced to wear a burka!

111 Occasional Reader  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:11:07pm

re: #96 shibumi

Although the last two world wars were started in Europe, they were WON by Americans.

Proud as I am of America's heritage, that statement is highly debatable, at best.

US forces arguably tipped the balance in WWI (really the THREAT of the forces as much as the reality of them, prompting the costly Ludendorff Spring Offensive). In WWII in Europe, the bulk of the German forces were destroyed by the Red Army.

112 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:11:08pm
113 yma o hyd  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:11:19pm

re: #33 TalkinKamel

Very funny, glad you like the Pythons!

As for the CofE - oh man, ye want me to name bishops who are not 'giving in', who are not 'dead'? Heard of Dr John Sentamu, didya? Archbishop of York? Bishp Nazir-Ali, Bishp of Rochester, has made it onto the Lizard pages, iirc. Some of you who are into theology may have heard (or even met, as he comes often to the USA) of Bishop Tom wright, Bishop of Durham - all no dhimmis, not dead wood, and highly unlikely to fall udner the spell of 'moderate' muslims.

They need the support of all those who sit on their fat arses, watch the telly and bemoan their bad fate, instead of getting up and effing well doing something themselves.

114 TalkinKamel  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:11:25pm

re: #105 Killgore Trout

Killgore, secular, leftist, labour party Britain IS to blame for a lot of the C of E's---and England's---problems.

115 redstateredneck  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:11:38pm

From another article:

David Voas, a professor of population studies at the Institute for Social Change at the University of Manchester, said: “The difficulty is in retaining the children who have churchgoing parents. So long as churchgoing is something that gets you laughed at, so long as there is a social stigma attached to being a churchgoing young person, it will be difficult to reverse the trend.” He said that young Muslims operated in a different environment. “Being religious is a way that you show you are different, that you are proud of your heritage. One of the ways young Muslims assert their identity is by being more observant than their parents.”
116 David Simon  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:11:44pm

re: #42 Occasional Reader

Fine, I'll take it. Am I the only one pleasantly surprised to read such a frank assessment of the situation in a C of E newsletter?

Nope. The first step toward solving a problem is admitting that you have one.

117 shibumi  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:12:12pm

re: #109 TalkinKamel

Frankly, I think it's just plain old justice if Liberals end up living in the very hell they've got planned for the rest of us.

In a perfect world, they'll be living in the Islamic hell, while the rest of us sip drinks by the pool, reading literature banned by Islam.

118 MandyManners  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:12:39pm

re: #30 republic

If there are a billion Muslims worldwide, and nearly every voice says that it is only a small faction of "radicals", who have "highjacked their religion", and say that number of "radicals" is around a million, that would then leave about 999 million "moderate" Muslims.

Somethings not adding up here, and it isn't my math.

You mean, someone's been lying to us? Neverrrrrrrrrrrr.

119 Occasional Reader  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:12:50pm

re: #111 Occasional Reader

US forces arguably tipped the balance in WWI

I meant to add: ... but constituted a relatively small component of the total Allied forces.

120 jcm  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:13:01pm

re: #74 Slumbering Behemoth

It did seem more like a warning/alarm call to me, but maybe not. At times I can be overly optimistic.

Hopefully the people will see it as such.

The offical tone of the C of E has been very dhimmified.

121 sparrowlake  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:13:05pm

The logical outcome of the Church of England's auto-obituary is that it will fall to the godless hordes to save the nation.

122 TalkinKamel  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:13:07pm

re: #113 yma o hyd

Ooooh yes, I love the Pythons!

I do have hope for the C of E. . . if it can transform, rediscover itself and start preaching the Gospel once more. And I very much admire Bishop Nazir.

123 yma o hyd  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:13:31pm

re: #37 unreconstructed rebel

Some have - but certainly not the Archbishop of Wales, my dear compatriot!

124 rabidsquirrel  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:13:34pm

re: #88 JamesTKirk

It's long on grievances and short on solutions. "Oh woe is me" hardly inspires hope.

True, but admitting you have a problem is the first step. Of course, if you fail to take steps to address the problems, it's all a moot point.

125 TalkinKamel  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:13:38pm

re: #117 shibumi

Heh, heh. .. . Yes, that's a scenario I'd like very much!

126 Eowyn2  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:14:45pm

re: #117 shibumi

In a perfect world, they'll be living in the Islamic hell, while the rest of us sip drinks by the pool, reading literature banned by Islam.

like the US Constitution.

127 Killgore Trout  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:14:46pm

re: #55 Ringo the Gringo

I can see how some people could blame secularism for the decline of Christianity but I don't think that's the case. Secular society is very important and is the cornerstone of modern Western culture. Religion is a service industry, I suspect the decline of Christianity in Europe is because of the churches.

128 doppelganglander  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:14:49pm

re: #116 David Simon

I'm not sure they believe this is a problem to be solved, so much as a situation to be accepted. That's what's so scary.

129 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:15:00pm

re: #111 Occasional Reader

Proud as I am of America's heritage, that statement is highly debatable, at best.

US
forces arguably tipped the balance in WWI (really the THREAT of the
forces as much as the reality of them, prompting the costly Ludendorff Spring Offensive). In WWII in Europe, the bulk of the German forces were destroyed by the Red Army.


Who liberated Auschitz with Obama's uncle.

130 TalkinKamel  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:15:17pm

re: #121 sparrowlake

Unless, the godless hordes convert to Islam. Or decide that they might as well just go along, and hope all their welfare state benfits aren't cut. Or dither around helplessly, because they don't want to submit to Islam, but they can't bear the thought of allying themselves with religious people, either. . .

131 republic  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:15:27pm

re: #100 reine.de.tout

I believe he is, and I think the argument has some merit. The churches themselves are at fault, also, including my own, the Catholic Church. As they give in to "secularism", in an attempt to "modernize", they lose the strength of the faith that people believe in, replacing it with moral relativism.

If I recall correctly, Christian churches are doing best in those countries that have not yet given in to "secularization".

I'm not saying that churches should not modernize. I'm just saying I think they've gone about it the wrong way.

The Apostles of Christ, with the lone exception of John, were all either crucified, beheaded, or stoned for their beliefs and preachings.

The Church grew by leaps and bounds, in the face of being slaughtered for their beliefs, and in the face of every form of trying to change the Message of the Gospel.

Nowadays, Christians only have to defend their Christianity from the ACLU, the SCOTUS, thousands of Federal activist leftist judges, the Congress, any Dem POTUS, all of Islam, and Killgore Trout, you'd think that Christianity should prevail.

The times are a changing, as Scripture has Perfectly revealed.

132 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:15:43pm

re: #117 shibumi

In a perfect world, they'll be living in the Islamic hell, while the rest of us sip drinks by the pool, reading literature banned by Islam.

Living well is the best revenge.

133 Ringo the Gringo  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:15:58pm

A friend of mine in New Zealand tells me that Brits are immigrating down there in such numbers that the Kiwis are worried that in 30 years New Zealand will be British!

134 Ojoe  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:16:20pm

Those trying to take over the West will come up against a hard core and they will lose. We see now only the fluff around the outside.

135 Slumbering Behemoth  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:16:23pm

re: #106 republic

I'll be right with ya, although I will not under any circumstances end up against any wall.

On the wall, brother, not against it. The view is much better up there.

If it's clear that I've been mortally wounded, push me forward so that I might land on the enemy.

/one. last. strike.

136 Eowyn2  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:16:38pm

re: #119 Occasional Reader


It wasnt so much the man power. Although WWII did not end until the bombin at Hiroshima and Nagasaki; but the oil, foodstuffs, equipment.

137 shibumi  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:16:40pm

re: #111 Occasional Reader

Proud as I am of America's heritage, that statement is highly debatable, at best.

US forces arguably tipped the balance in WWI (really the THREAT of the forces as much as the reality of them, prompting the costly Ludendorff Spring Offensive). In WWII in Europe, the bulk of the German forces were destroyed by the Red Army.


Then let me revise.

No nation from Western Europe would have been victorious in WWII.

Is that more historically accurate?

It does still prove my original point that most of Western Europe is incapable of defending itself.

138 jcm  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:16:41pm

re: #119 Occasional Reader

I meant to add: ... but constituted a relatively small component of the total Allied forces.

Have you read VDH, Carnage and Culture? He get's into the reasons behind the effectiveness of our and western armies.

139 MandyManners  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:17:01pm

re: #72 nyc redneck

i don't believe it's going to happen. i'm not giving up yet.

A nation which produced Churchill did not lose his courage in one generation.

Never give in, never give in, never, never, never, never-in nothing, great or small, large or petty - never give in except to convictions of honour and good sense. Never yield to force; never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy.

140 republic  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:17:04pm

re: #96 shibumi

Although the last two world wars were started in Europe, they were WON by Americans.

Europe doesn't want to fight. When a culture will not fight for it's existence, it is impotent. That's why it's so easy for Islam to make incursions.

And if there is a war, look to Europe to come crying to the U.S. to get them out of it.

If it's a Democrat President and a Dem controlled Congress, this time, they'll be s@#t out of luck.

141 Occasional Reader  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:17:21pm

re: #129 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

Who liberated Auschitz with Obama's uncle.

Indeed. He then went on to liberate Greece. (He actually lived in Attica for six months.)

142 Killgore Trout  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:17:30pm

re: #131 republic

Heh.
;)

143 unreconstructed rebel  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:18:04pm

re: #105 Killgore Trout

KT

I am told that the man you cite, Bishop Michael Nazir-Ali, should have been nominated ABC, but the gay lobby pitched a fit & Tony Blair selected Rowan Williams instead.

I do note that the Queen's Peculiar is not as screwy as the rest of CoE, but I am afraid the old girl was asleep at the switch on this one.

144 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:18:10pm

re: #141 Occasional Reader

Indeed. He then went on to liberate Greece. (He actually lived in Attica for six months.)

Attic Black?
/

145 Shr_Nfr  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:18:56pm

Well, they certainly got this one spot on: "This progress has been enthusiastically assisted by this government in particular with its hard-line multi-cultural dogma and willingness to concede to virtually every demand made by Muslims. " Perhaps if we had a few more chaps like Nazir-Ali [Link: www.telegraph.co.uk...] and a few less bungholes like Gordon Brown and Tony Blair, this might actually get reversed a bit.

146 wolfie  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:19:09pm

re: #130 TalkinKamel

Unless, the godless hordes convert to Islam. Or decide that they might as well just go along, and hope all their welfare state benfits aren't cut. Or dither around helplessly, because they don't want to submit to Islam, but they can't bear the thought of allying themselves with religious people, either. . .

Or turn to fascism,Marxism,etc......secular ideologies that promise redemption and preach violence.

147 ointmentfly  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:19:30pm

re: #118 MandyManners

It is all part of the duplicity seen in just about all islamic groups. Hamas has a "political" wing and a "militant" wing. Each under the same flag, but neither controls the other.... If the majority of muslims are "moderate" then they surely can exert control on the radicals if England and the U.S. sanction all muslims somehow, right?

148 abu lahab  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:19:33pm

After reading the above article; I suggest reading this one below to help release some steam!
Good for the Aussies!
Weeping!

149 Occasional Reader  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:19:41pm

re: #144 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

Attic Black?
/

Or maybe he did time in Attica... the point is, vote Obama, you racist.

150 David Simon  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:19:52pm

re: #128 doppelganglander

I'm not sure they believe this is a problem to be solved, so much as a situation to be accepted. That's what's so scary.

You could be right, but that's not how it sounds to me. It sounds like they're as disgusted as we are. They're merely stating the obvious: if their countrymen don't wake the hell up, it's over.

151 republic  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:20:03pm

re: #135 Slumbering Behemoth

On the wall, brother, not against it. The view is much better up there.

If it's clear that I've been mortally wounded, push me forward so that I might land on the enemy.

/one. last. strike.

Here here!

I'd gladly land on the enemy, without a scratch on me.

one. last. strike

152 Slumbering Behemoth  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:20:18pm

re: #110 Eowyn2

Is there room for a gun totin gramma beside you.

No grand daughter of mine will be forced to wear a burka!

Absolutely! There is no gender-bias, if you're willing to point and click then I say have at them.

153 unreconstructed rebel  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:20:58pm

re: #123 yma o hyd

I have received rumors that he has been turned too. If you have evidence to the contrary, I would be greatful.

154 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:21:04pm

It could be argued that WWII was in part started by the Japanese, with the seizure of Manchuria, then the invasion of the rest of China.

155 Eowyn2  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:21:18pm

re: #129 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

That's all been cleared up. It was Obama's "Uncle Joe" who liberated Auschwitz.

Uncle Joe then went on to purge all cowards of the red army who were tired enough, hurt enough or surrounded enough to be captured by the German Army and lived through the internment.

156 Killgore Trout  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:21:45pm

re: #143 unreconstructed rebel

I am told that the man you cite, Bishop Michael Nazir-Ali, should have been nominated ABC, but the gay lobby pitched a fit & Tony Blair selected Rowan Williams instead.

Well,I think that proves my point. Increase secularism and get the government out of the church's affairs. It would be a great start. They still have to overcome the problem of getting butts in the pews on Sunday. If they provide the correct service people will show up but churches all across Europe are going empty.

157 markx  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:22:00pm

re: #6 markie

re: #6 markie

It's 1933 all over again!

No, actually, this time it's worst.

This time it's internal and no one there seems to care enough to fight.

158 wolfie  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:22:07pm

re: #139 MandyManners

It's been more than one generation. IIRC, a recent survey found that over 60% of Brits under 30 could not even identify Winston Churchill, much less know what he said.

159 yma o hyd  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:22:37pm

re: #97 Ojoe

What gives you the idea that Durham Cathedral is hanging in the balance?
We know about the archbishop of Canterbury - and tbh i don't know about the Bishop of salisbury - but by heck, I do know the Bisho of Durham, and he's not letting his cathedral and diocese go by default, certainly not to the peddlers of that false religion!

(If I misunderstood you - sorry - am mightily enraged!)

160 markx  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:23:19pm

re: #22 Ringo the Gringo

I have a dark feeling that some thing very ugly will ensue before then.


Yeah, I wouldn't bet on 30 years. I'm thinking about 10.

161 Slumbering Behemoth  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:23:23pm

re: #120 jcm

Hopefully the people will see it as such.

The offical tone of the C of E has been very dhimmified.

Ditto on both points. I just hate to see this happening to a friend and ally of the U.S., I want to hold out hope for them.

162 WriterMom  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:23:43pm

re: #11 jcm

I see it as a (mild) call to action.

163 Widow'smight  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:24:07pm

re: #131 republic

We Christians don't need to defend our faith, we need to show by example the richness of it.

164 jcbunga  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:24:39pm

re: #158 wolfie

It's been more than one generation. IIRC, a recent survey found that over 60% of Brits under 30 could not even identify Winston Churchill, much less know what he said.

Sad, if true.

"An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last."
--Winston Churchill

165 sparrowlake  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:24:42pm

Methinks they doth bendeth and spreadeth their nethers.

166 WriterMom  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:24:57pm

re: #26 Killgore Trout

I think he means that there is a trend that as people become more secular, they have fewer children.

167 cygnus  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:25:23pm

re: #110 Eowyn2

Is there room for a gun totin gramma beside you.

No grand daughter of mine will be forced to wear a burka!

Stand, men (and women) of the West!

/Aragorn

168 WriterMom  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:25:33pm

re: #20 Occasional Reader

Agree with you.

169 Occasional Reader  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:25:55pm

re: #152 Slumbering Behemoth

There is no gender-bias, if you're willing to point and click

Guns are equalizers in more ways than one. Annie Oakley was, without question, the best shooter in Buffalo Bill's Wild West Show.

170 republic  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:26:11pm

re: #163 Widow'smight

We Christians don't need to defend our faith, we need to show by example the richness of it.

I agree.

Although it doesn't hurt to support groups who oppose the ACLU and the Democrats(leftists).

171 Eowyn2  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:26:36pm

re: #167 cygnus

begone foul dwimmerlake, put not a burka between me and my kin.

172 jcm  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:26:37pm

re: #163 Widow'smight

We Christians don't need to defend our faith, we need to show by example the richness of it.

Amen, Amen and Amen.
Did I say AMEN!

173 TalkinKamel  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:26:43pm

re: #156 Killgore Trout

Killgore, it sounds like there's too much secularism in the church already. I agree with you about getting the government out of the church. . . but what do you mean by the "correct" service? What, other than preaching the gospel, and celebrating the eucharist, is the "correct" service of the C of E? Are you saying they need to jazz things up with guitar masses, or masses featuring giant puppets?

174 anotherindyfilmguy  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:26:46pm

So I guess it would be to much to see the CoE actually go out and try to convert people from islam to the CoE or mebbe try to do things that encourage the growth of the church through not being a bastion of liberal self loathing and cultural suicide then?
Just asking...

175 MacGregor  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:27:01pm

So the injection of secularism into the church by the left has created a spiritual vacuum, easily filled by an aggressive religion?

176 Slumbering Behemoth  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:27:02pm

re: #167 cygnus

Hold your ground!

177 yma o hyd  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:27:04pm

re: #25 TalkinKamel

I wonder why the British government is so eager to turn itself over to Islam?

(Does Prince Chuckles really think they'll make him Caliph?)

re: #99 Eowyn2

No, he figures his mom will not let loose the reins until he's off boating with Camilla.

Aww - lokit here, the British Government, which for 11 years ahs been the worst moonbatty leftist government ever, under NuLab, Tony bnlair and Gordon Brown, that is the lot which says what is going to happen, which makes the laws etc etc etc.

The Queen, and should she die, Prnice Charlse, ahve nothing whatsoever to do with the governing of this country.
Its called a 'Constitutional Monarchy', where Queen and King are basically figureheads.
They do not govern!

178 cygnus  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:27:08pm

re: #126 Eowyn2

like the US Constitution.

And the Bible.

179 TalkinKamel  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:27:20pm

re: #166 WriterMom

Yes, that's true; more secularism seems to equal fewer kids.

180 SagamoreGal  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:27:27pm

P.D. James' portent of a godless, childless British society in "Children of Men" always runs through my mind when I read articles such as this.

181 Shr_Nfr  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:27:38pm

If you are trying to get into New Zealand these days there are only a few ways for you to do it: [Link: www.immigration.govt.nz...] Basically, you either have to be one of the selected minorities, have a skill that they need, or bring a lot of cash to start a business. However fwiw, the doctor who is my next door neighbor was Canadian born and trained, spent some time in NZ and then decided that the best place was the states.

182 Occasional Reader  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:28:02pm

re: #173 TalkinKamel

Are you saying they need to jazz things up with guitar masses

Ick, guitar mass, no. (Bad flashback here.) Now, Jazz Mass, on the other hand...

183 ishabibble  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:28:03pm

re: #18 republic

I sure am glad that the U.S. Constitution gaurentees that there will never be a state run religion in the USA.

/sarc

"OK class, today, and for the next several months, we are going to study Islam, you will all take a Muslim name, and we will study how Islam is a religion of peace."

No sarc!

It's already happened here:

[Link: www.sfgate.com...]
f=/c/a/2002/09/08/IN87674.DTL

And here:

[Link: www.jihadwatch.org...]

184 tappin52  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:28:25pm

re: #110 Eowyn2

You may have to help me up onto the wall, but I'll be there with you!

185 nyc redneck  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:28:27pm

i think the decay can be reversed in britain. they need to regain a sense of pride in themselves.
i think some are awakening. they did oust red ken. that could become a trend.
the hard working blokes who do the real work and pay taxes will fight and that will inspire others. eventually push will come to shove. there will be a clash. i can't see the brits sleeping walking to the very end of their civilization.

186 TalkinKamel  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:28:49pm

re: #177 yma o hyd

Well, neither Chuckles nor his mom govern now. . .

But I wonder. Chuckles, like most moonbats, seems to want power over others. Maybe he thinks he's more likely to get it as a champion of Islam, rather than as a figurehead monarch. . .

187 markx  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:29:07pm

re: #98 Slumbering Behemoth

No hiding in priest holes for me. I'm not a soldier, nor a super-hero, nor a bad-ass, but I am an American. That's gotta count for something. Let the children fill the bunkers, I'll be on the wall.

Ditto.

And my children and grandchildren will be re-loading for me.

188 TalkinKamel  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:29:26pm

re: #185 nyc redneck

Exactly!

189 landline  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:29:26pm

RE: #43 Ringo the Gringo 5/28/08 11:56:50 am reply quote 1
The Leftists and Secularists of Great Britain are not going to be happy when their Gramcian plans leave them living, not in a socialist Utopia, but rather in a more religious and intolerant society than the one they have worked so hard to deconstruct.

I honestly don't believe that extreme leftists in the UK care one way or the other for their personal welfare. They are primarily nihilists and will be delighted to see a Western European Capitalist society fail -thus fulfilling the prophecy of Uncle Karl. To a great extent, extreme leftists are simply self-hating fools.

190 Shr_Nfr  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:29:48pm

re: #177 yma o hyd

It would be an interesting sight to see Charles and Camilla both being stoned to death for adultery.

191 WriterMom  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:29:58pm

re: #173 TalkinKamel

Oooh yes...."Service With A Smile", or a MIME! Or modern expressive dancing and performance art...the possibilities are endless!

192 alegrias  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:30:07pm

I'm getting nostalgic for Popes & Holy Roman Emperors who sent military armies & Conquistadors to battle hordes.

Defending from those who tried to conquer by the sword, you know.

193 mama winger  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:30:12pm

The Church of England is not synonymous with Christianity. There are other, growing, churches in England besides the state church. Pentecostal churches are gaining in attendance. People will go to wherever the actual Gospel is preached and lived out. Churches that have substituted the leftist agenda for Christianity will be found wanting. Marxism always leads to failure, whatever the setting.

Onward Christian soldiers, marching as to war.

194 TalkinKamel  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:30:14pm

re: #180 SagamoreGal

James was prophetic.

195 Slumbering Behemoth  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:30:44pm

re: #170 republic

Although it doesn't hurt to support groups who oppose the ACLU and the Democrats(leftists).

They (ACLU, the Progsoc) threaten more than just your faith, they are a threat to everything this country stands for.

196 Silhouette  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:30:47pm

That they will wake up is without question. The only question is will it be in time.

I go back and forth between optimism and pessimism on this one.

197 republic  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:30:51pm

re: #183 ishabibble

It's already happened here:

[Link: www.sfgate.com...]
f=/c/a/2002/09/08/IN87674.DTL

And here:

[Link: www.jihadwatch.org...]

Oh, I'm well aware.

It's interesting that the left/ACLU never confront this, in fact, they defend it.

198 MandyManners  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:30:57pm

re: #147 ointmentfly

It is all part of the duplicity seen in just about all islamic groups. Hamas has a "political" wing and a "militant" wing. Each under the same flag, but neither controls the other.... If the majority of muslims are "moderate" then they surely can exert control on the radicals if England and the U.S. sanction all muslims somehow, right?

You'd think that Britain's experience with Siin Fein would tip them off.

199 WriterMom  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:31:49pm

re: #185 nyc redneck

I agree with you that kicking Red Ken's butt out of office was a definite sign of pushback. Additionally, the Brits are being CRUSHED with 'green' taxes on everything-they are not happy about that either.

200 MandyManners  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:32:07pm

re: #158 wolfie

It's been more than one generation. IIRC, a recent survey found that over 60% of Brits under 30 could not even identify Winston Churchill, much less know what he said.

I'm spreaking of guts, not knowledge of history.

201 coquimbojoe  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:32:12pm

re: #198 MandyManners

You'd think that Britain's experience with Siin Fein would tip them off.

You would think, but then you'd be wrong.....

202 Killgore Trout  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:32:23pm

re: #173 TalkinKamel

but what do you mean by the "correct" service?


I don't have anything specific in mind. The church needs to provide people with a modern and relevant form of spirituality. If they don't provide it people won't show up. I don't think it's about gimmicks and puppet shows.

203 Occasional Reader  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:32:28pm

re: #191 WriterMom

Oooh yes...."Service With A Smile", or a MIME! Or modern expressive dancing and performance art...the possibilities are endless!

I've already floated my Heavy Metal Mass idea on these pages.

(to the tune of "Iron Man")

Heavy cross of wood
separates sinners from the good
Repenting as fast as they can
Crucified Man lives again

bwowhwowowWOWwow bwowWHOAaaaaa....

204 EC Marm  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:32:36pm

re: #193 mama winger


&#9834 Onward Christian soldiers, marching as to war. &#9834


I wonder if that is ever played inside of a C of E facility?

205 WriterMom  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:33:05pm

re: #198 MandyManners

They have poured countless euros into the jizyah pot there, trying to stave off the beast. Fucking lunacy.

206 MarkX  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:33:22pm

re: #190 Shr_Nfr

It would be an interesting sight to see Charles and Camilla both being stoned to death for adultery.

Sorry.
Although normally I would find that funny, in the context of this thread it's not.

207 republic  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:33:23pm

re: #195 Slumbering Behemoth

They (ACLU, the Progsoc) threaten more than just your faith, they are a threat to everything this country stands for.

What did the Founders of this country base the U.S. Constitution and Bill of Rights on?

Heh.

208 unreconstructed rebel  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:33:28pm

re: #173 TalkinKamel

My take. It's the substance (read good news), not liturgy that is most important. I have observed:

Excellent liturgy + weak message = no attendance
Bad liturgy + weak message = no attendance
Excellent liturgy + strong message = strong attendance
Bad liturgy + strong message = strong attendance

Bottom line: hip liturgy does not make up for a weak gospel.

209 TalkinKamel  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:33:47pm

Okay, WriterMom, you asked for it! [Link: fratres.wordpress.com...]

210 redstateredneck  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:33:57pm

re: #193 mama winger

Only in the large, evangelical churches of the Baptist and independent denominations is there resistance to the trend, but many of these churches also show some decline. One small area of growth is in Northern Ireland, where the enthusiasm of Pentecostals and other independents has led to a slight increase in numbers of churches - a trend expected to continue to 2050. The three growing denominations are the Orthodox, Pentecostals and smaller denominations, all dependent to a degree on immigration.


linky

211 WriterMom  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:34:00pm

re: #203 Occasional Reader

Oooh, preach it!

(says the suburban Jewish Jewhadi Mom to the atheist....)

212 Silhouette  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:34:16pm

re: #190 Shr_Nfr

Interesting? I would find it horrifying, no matter my opinion of them. I don't want shariah for my enemies as justice for allowing shariah in the first place.

213 republic  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:34:18pm

"Praise The Lord and pass the ammunition."

214 MandyManners  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:34:20pm

Back to drudgery.

215 reloadingisnotahobby  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:34:29pm

re: #184 tappin52

You may have to help me up onto the wall, but I'll be there with you!


As for me ....Just give me the high ground and a clear line...
Till the barrels have melted!
What a way to go!

216 WriterMom  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:34:33pm

re: #209 TalkinKamel

GAAAAAAAAAAA MY EEEEEEYYYYYYESSSSSSSSSSSS

217 Slumbering Behemoth  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:34:47pm

re: #187 markx

Right on! Also, could you ask them to bring sandwiches? We might be up there a long time.

218 coquimbojoe  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:34:53pm

re: #202 Killgore Trout

I don't have anything specific in mind. The church needs to provide people with a modern and relevant form of spirituality. If they don't provide it people won't show up. I don't think it's about gimmicks and puppet shows.

You, my godless friend, are exactly right. Those churches/religions that are presenting people with clear cut doctrines rather than just pomp, pap and touchy feely crap, are still filling the pews.

219 cygnus  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:35:02pm

re: #172 jcm

Amen, Amen and Amen.
Did I say AMEN!

Googleplex Amens.

220 Eowyn2  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:35:29pm

re: #177 yma o hyd

they are merely figrureheads.
yes, we know that.
HOWEVER, that is only because they have abdicated their ruling status. they still have the ability to manipulate public opinion and, in my view, should be doing just that.

Longshanks was a king.
Henry Vii was a king.
Elizabeth 1 was a queen

221 TalkinKamel  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:35:45pm

re: #202 Killgore Trout

And what do you mean by a "relevant", "modern" spirituality?

(By the way, those who put on church puppet shows and the like claim that they are being modern and relevant. And, as you yourself admit, you don't have any clear ideas on the subject, so how can you say what the church should be doing at all?)

222 Bubblehead II  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:35:47pm

OT

But anything that puts a bee in Pelosi's knickers is always good news.

Al Gore goof gets Pelosi in hot water

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., soon may be facing ethics charges from the Federal Elections Commission for a television commercial that apparently violated federal campaign finance laws.

223 Widow'smight  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:35:59pm

re: #170 republic

We shouldn't worry about the ACLU, Christianity isn't about symbols. Besides, by bringing forth these lawsuits, they're making Christianity more appealing, not less.

In a world gone crazy, that narrow gate is much more appealing to me.

224 TalkinKamel  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:36:19pm

re: #216 WriterMom

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHA!

(Serves you right for putting images of mimes in my head!)

225 mama winger  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:36:30pm

re: #210 redstateredneck

The three growing denominations are the Orthodox, Pentecostals and smaller denominations,

It is very interesting to me that the Orthodox Church is one of the churches that is gaining attendance worldwide. For those who push for a 'more modern' church experience, this fact just flies in the face of all that. :)

226 Eowyn2  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:36:34pm

re: #178 cygnus
and The Lord of the Rings trilogy

3000 years of western cultural history will be revised.

227 unreconstructed rebel  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:36:45pm

re: #193 mama winger

The Episcopal Organization dropped Onward Christian Soldiers as too belacose. And .... oh, well.

228 Occasional Reader  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:37:01pm

re: #211 WriterMom

Oooh, preach it!

Judas betrayed him
now he stands crowned with thorns
Planning Redemption
a new world to be born

229 republic  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:37:22pm

re: #215 reloadingisnotahobby

As for me ....Just give me the high ground and a clear line...
Till the barrels have melted!
What a way to go!

With many modern firearms, a person doesn't have to worry about the barrels melting.

Just fire until everything goes black(only momentarily), or live to fight another day.

What a way to go!

230 Slumbering Behemoth  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:37:30pm

re: #207 republic

Well, Lizard Gmsc provided many interesting points on that very subject a while back.

I could link them if you like?

231 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:37:52pm

re: #209 TalkinKamel

Okay, WriterMom, you asked for it! [Link: fratres.wordpress.com...]

The Puppets.....The Puppets.....

232 Silhouette  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:38:06pm

re: #193 mama winger

Onward Christian soldiers, marching as to war.

We march "as" to war, the jihadists march to war.

233 jcm  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:38:08pm

re: #193 mama winger

The Church of England is not synonymous with Christianity. There are other, growing, churches in England besides the state church. Pentecostal churches are gaining in attendance. People will go to wherever the actual Gospel is preached and lived out. Churches that have substituted the leftist agenda for Christianity will be found wanting. Marxism always leads to failure, whatever the setting.

Onward Christian soldiers, marching as to war.

Same pattern here. The churches with a left leaning agenda are losing membership. While the more gospel oriented are gaining.

234 MarkX  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:38:14pm

re: #217 Slumbering Behemoth

Right on! Also, could you ask them to bring sandwiches? We might be up there a long time.


That's the womens work.

*ducks*

just kidding,
just kidding,
just kidding,

235 republic  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:38:29pm

re: #218 coquimbojoe

You, my godless friend, are exactly right. Those churches/religions that are presenting people with clear cut doctrines rather than just pomp, pap and touchy feely crap, are still filling the pews.

Killgore Trout "gets it" even when he doesn't get it.

Splendid!

236 redstateredneck  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:38:35pm

re: #225 mama winger

It is very interesting to me that the Orthodox Church is one of the churches that is gaining attendance worldwide. For those who push for a 'more modern' church experience, this fact just flies in the face of all that. :)


I think that there's a lot of comfort in tradition.

237 Killgore Trout  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:38:36pm

re: #221 TalkinKamel

And what do you mean by a "relevant", "modern" spirituality?


I don't really know. Like I said I don't have specific ideas. But there is a reason why pews in Europe are empty and churches are shutting down. All too often I see the churches blaming the people and society for this. I think it's the churches who are too blame.

238 Silhouette  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:38:37pm

re: #215 reloadingisnotahobby

Till the barrels have melted!

Grab an alligator and fight another round.

239 jcm  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:38:45pm

re: #204 EC Marm

I wonder if that is ever played inside of a C of E facility?

A martial warmonger intolerant piece like that.
I think not!

240 cygnus  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:38:53pm

re: #184 tappin52

You may have to help me up onto the wall, but I'll be there with you!

We'll bring ladders. And guns. And swords. And....

241 mama winger  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:39:01pm

re: #227 unreconstructed rebel

The Episcopal Organization dropped Onward Christian Soldiers as too belacose. And .... oh, well.

I remember lining up on the sidewalk, walking into Sunday School, singing that song. I was four years old. We carried the Christian flag, and the American flag, and sang loud and proud about defending our way of life.

good times

242 yma o hyd  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:39:18pm

re: #102 TalkinKamel

Absolutely - and there are indeed quite powerful signs that turnarounds, and moving away from soft-marxist stances are underway.
These things do take time, and there have been far to many false battles which were fought (womens' ordinations, for one).
It is also worth remembering that while officially there is no separation of Church and state in England (the Welsh Anglican Church is separated) - there has been this long gentlemen's agreement that the bishops may sit in the House of Lords, but kindly STFU and let NuLab do the work!

As for looking to other religions - the CofE now works very closely with the Methodist Churches in england, as with the RC.
The one thing the Anglican Church in general is famous for is that it is not exactly dogmatic: lots of differnt views can find room udner her wings.
Regarding the work to be done vis-avis the State, there is one in particular who doesn't 'fit' into this scheme of gentlemens' agrement, and who doesn't mince words, one of the new breed of bishops, is Dr John Sentamu, Archbishop of York.

But like all these good bishops, he knows that work ahs to start at the bottom, with the children, with educating those who will become priests. Thats why I think it does take time - but hey, its not just the bishops who've got work to do, its all of us who go to church, who confess being part of this church.
Its no good sitting on our hands, moaning and complaining about soft bishops if we can't be bothered to do our bit, not just in the Church, but especially in our communities and neighbourhoods.

243 cookielady  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:39:30pm

re: #98 Slumbering Behemoth

No hiding in priest holes for me. I'm not a soldier, nor a super-hero, nor a bad-ass, but I am an American. That's gotta count for something. Let the children fill the bunkers, I'll be on the wall.

I will stand beside you. I will be proud to have your back. Deal?

245 MarkX  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:39:44pm

re: #241 mama winger

What, about 40 years ago or so?

/sigh

246 unreconstructed rebel  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:39:44pm

re: #222 Bubblehead II

Goody!

247 mama winger  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:40:26pm

re: #236 redstateredneck

I think that there's a lot of comfort in tradition.

And there's a whole lot of truth behind that tradition. The truth is always attractive. People like truth.

248 Ojoe  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:40:35pm

re: #193 mama winger

Onward Yes

Look at the cathedrals, do you think they were built by people wracked by doubts and confusion

After the Middle Ages, humanity began to regroup, but the goals were lower

And now we are at the end of a long era of confusion

249 redstateredneck  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:40:44pm

re: #241 mama winger

I remember lining up on the sidewalk, walking into Sunday School, singing that song. I was four years old. We carried the Christian flag, and the American flag, and sang loud and proud about defending our way of life.

good times

We pledged to the Bible and the Christian flag.

250 ted  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:40:46pm

Change !

251 cygnus  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:40:48pm

re: #193 mama winger

The Church of England is not synonymous with Christianity. There are other, growing, churches in England besides the state church. Pentecostal churches are gaining in attendance. People will go to wherever the actual Gospel is preached and lived out. Churches that have substituted the leftist agenda for Christianity will be found wanting. Marxism always leads to failure, whatever the setting.

Onward Christian soldiers, marching as to war.

Calvary Chapel has planted several churches in the UK and I hear that they're doing quite well.

252 mama winger  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:40:55pm

re: #245 MarkX

What, about 40 years ago or so?

/sigh

A little more than that. LOL :P

253 Slumbering Behemoth  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:41:03pm

re: #234 MarkX

I'll take sandwiches from whoever makes them, so long as they wash their hands.
/you know, it was a man who made the first sandwich

254 kuffarharbi  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:41:10pm

re: #204 EC Marm

I wonder if that is ever played inside of a C of E facility?

Check out the old movie 'Mrs Miniver', the World War 2 drama with that lovely actress, Greer Garson. There's a great scene with that hymn being sung in a bombed out church in Kent if I remember rightly.

255 republic  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:41:18pm

re: #223 Widow'smight

We shouldn't worry about the ACLU, Christianity isn't about symbols. Besides, by bringing forth these lawsuits, they're making Christianity more appealing, not less.

In a world gone crazy, that narrow gate is much more appealing to me.

I will oppose all and any evil while I have the breath of life in me.

The ACLU is literally attacking my Lord, not symbols.

My Lord is not a symbol.

256 Killgore Trout  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:41:19pm

re: #235 republic

Killgore Trout "gets it" even when he doesn't get it.


Heh, thanks. I'm not spiritual so I'm a little out of my league when it come to diagnosing the church's problems and proposing cures. I do recognize that many people do have spiritual needs that could easily be served by the churches in Europe.

257 WriterMom  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:41:41pm

re: #244 Alouette

Don't sweat it. Those are two notorious lefties.

Their influence is about as big as Nasrallah's pipik.

258 unreconstructed rebel  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:42:51pm

re: #241 mama winger

Christian flag?

You got me on that one. Got a pitcher? (or are you thinking church flag. Seen plenty o' them.

259 reloadingisnotahobby  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:42:59pm

re: #229 republic
No...
But I've gotten them hot enough to only hit your target with a lucky richocet!Ha!

260 mama winger  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:43:35pm

re: #258 unreconstructed rebel

Christian flag?

You got me on that one. Got a pitcher? (or are you thinking church flag. Seen plenty o' them.

Not a church flag. Let me see if I can find a pic.

I think I can remember the pledge too.

261 Ojoe  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:43:38pm

re: #255 republic

When you are baptized you promise (or your godparents promise for you) to resist Stan and all his works.

262 Slumbering Behemoth  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:43:56pm

re: #243 cookielady

Deal! Just don't bring any cookies, that'll wreak havoc on my blood-sugar. Don't wanna be all shaky.
/

263 ethanxxx  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:44:51pm

30 years? Sounds pretty optimistic to me. I was thinking more like 4 years. One of, if not the main reason, that this medieval cult is allowed to flourish is that it is becoming a crime to point out the murderous doctrine that they adhere to. The only saving grace for the UK may be to adapt more gun rights for its citizens.

264 Bubblehead II  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:44:51pm

re: #238 Silhouette

Battle of New Orleans

265 mean Gene  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:45:03pm

I may be reading too much between the lines there but is seems as though the C of E wishes it, too, could force C of E inmates into services in prison.
If obeying some weird Islamic practice is dubbed by C of E as, "Monty Pythonesque," shouldn't all religion be removed from British society rather than C of E practices simply added on, too?
And the bit about how to fight ''honor killings.''
Shouldn't having the entire book thrown at you going to act as a deterrent?
Or do we have to have ''hate crimes?"
Why informal dealings?
A murder is a murder.
When men lay in wait, plot to bring a girl to a certain place to kill her they cannot turn around and plead emotions of the spur of the moment.
I just don't get what it is that the C of E hopes to achieve.

266 ajmurray[deleted]  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:45:04pm
267 mama winger  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:45:14pm
268 Honorary Yooper  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:45:41pm

re: #241 mama winger

I remember lining up on the sidewalk, walking into Sunday School, singing that song. I was four years old. We carried the Christian flag, and the American flag, and sang loud and proud about defending our way of life.

good times

What's the "Christian flag"? This is the only "Christian flag" I know of. We never sing Onward Christian Soldiers either (it's not even in the music issue), but we do sing A Mighty Fortress from time to time.

269 Silhouette  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:45:52pm

No one likes to pray to "To whom it may concern."

Churches have decided that the God of Justice won't sell well with the masses, because He's all about rules, and nobody likes rules, dude. Likewise the forgiving God, because that implies you've done something to be forgiven for, and no one wants to be told they're a sinner.

They've removed those parts of God and created a false God that they think is more palatable. But removed of His true substance, their false God is made of paper and cobwebs, and disintegrates in the face of pressure as easily as the paper faith it inspires.

/my humble opinion

270 akak  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:46:03pm
the civilization of modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilization of ancient Rome

"Who is Winston Churchill, Alex?"

271 alegrias  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:46:09pm

Charles got a hat tip over at the [Link: www.weeklystandard...] blog item about WashPost factchecking candidate's WWII "family legends"!

Also there, good news about a McCain-Romney ticket.

Romney's impressive as a man who gets what we're fighting here, plus he's a man of strong faith who was able to transmit this faith to his children and grandchildren AND who was willing to electronically bug mosques in his state of Massachusetts if they were espousing violence.

272 unreconstructed rebel  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:46:12pm

re: #260 mama winger

Closest I can come is the processional cross (showing my heritage). However, it has an interesting history. Constantine used it as his battle ensign in place of the roman eagle.

273 MarkX  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:46:58pm

re: #267 mama winger

I remember going to church as a kid and both the Christian & American flags were up front on the sides.

/30 years ago

274 jcm  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:47:12pm

re: #237 Killgore Trout

I don't really know. Like I said I don't have specific ideas. But there is a reason why pews in Europe are empty and churches are shutting down. All too often I see the churches blaming the people and society for this. I think it's the churches who are too blame.

I think it's the churches who are too blame.

In that you are absolutely correct. In lack in the church is solely province of the church.

In a Christian theology context, the victory has already been won, the enemies of Christ and the Church defeated. It merely has to be exercised by the church. It is our personal failure as Christians, and our collective failure as the Church to proclaim and exercise that victory.

To those outside the church the failure to do what we are charged to do looks like this.

275 unreconstructed rebel  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:47:20pm

re: #266 ajmurray

And you speak english because?

276 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:47:25pm

re: #220 Eowyn2


Longshanks was a king.

Henry Vii was a king.

Elizabeth 1 was a queen

Longshanks' son was a queen, too.

277 mama winger  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:47:33pm

re: #268 Honorary Yooper

re: #272 unreconstructed rebel

See my 267. :)

278 Silhouette  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:48:06pm

re: #249 redstateredneck

We pledged to the Bible and the Christian flag.

Now, they pledge allegiance to dirt.

279 MarkX  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:48:07pm

re: #268 Honorary Yooper


LOL.

Obviously, you never attended a 'Bible thumping' church.

280 mama winger  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:48:25pm

re: #273 MarkX

I remember going to church as a kid and both the Christian & American flags were up front on the sides.

/30 years ago

Me too. It's funny - I had forgotten that till today.

281 redstateredneck  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:48:37pm

re: #273 MarkX

I remember going to church as a kid and both the Christian & American flags were up front on the sides.

/30 years ago

We still put ours up for Memorial Day Sunday, 4th of July, etc.
And teach the pledges to the kids in Bible School.

282 alegrias  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:48:41pm

re: #266 ajmurray

* * *
Ignorant fool. Beyond all that, who gave us the tradition of individual rights, common law, habeas corpus, private property, a beautiful language, the King James Bible & Shakespeare & scientific inquiry and so much more?

283 Ojoe  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:48:46pm

re: #260 mama winger

The Danish flag would come close.

Supposedly it goes back to the crusades.

284 yma o hyd  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:48:58pm

re: #127 Killgore Trout

Well - there are at least two factors which contributed enormously to the decline of Christianity in Europe.
One is the fact that after two devastating wars fought in the middle of Europe, with the loss of live that meant, not just for the military but for the civilians as well, there were not many who could turn back to the Church they grew up with.
Obviously there were the long years of anti-church indoctrination, both under Hitler and in the Soviet Bloc Countries.
those choldren, now grown up, make up the bulk of atheists who strongly believe that the Christian Churches are the root of all evil - and who, when in power, do their best to elimiate any church influence from all walks of life.
This is not what one could describe as a secular society - it has, in certain parts of Europe gone way beyond this.
Why it has become so virulent in GB - i think its to do with the fact that the young NULab politicians have all come from deeply marxist/stalinist backgrounds.
A secular society is fine - but not one which is actively anti-Christian, while at the same time, through multi-culti - supporting and easing Islam.

285 nyc redneck  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:49:02pm

i'm heartened by people like the airport worker in glasgow who kicked the sh*t out of that flaming jihadi. there are many people who will fight. they're not mad enough yet. many are smoldering now and when their anger combusts there's going to be some singeing. in fact, the world may call on us to put out the fire. i'll vote no. unless it's to help the brits. (my guess is they won't need it).

286 DesertSage  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:49:36pm

re: #256 Killgore Trout

Heh, thanks. I'm not spiritual so I'm a little out of my league when it come to diagnosing the church's problems and proposing cures. I do recognize that many people do have spiritual needs that could easily be served by the churches in Europe.

Wow. I usually only talk to you when you say something absurd and I challenge you on it.
But this time you said something that makes a lot of sense, so to be fair, I applaud you for it. Bravo.

287 MarkX  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:50:00pm

re: #280 mama winger


This thread is really starting to cause me to be sad.

288 J.S.  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:50:18pm

I also recall an article published in the National Post (written by the Catholic priest). The author condemned the UK's recent decision to OK the creation of animal-human hybrids (I believe at the embyonic level), as well as the use of human beings as mere "spare parts" repositories. His final remark was that we should pity the children being raised in such environments. (I think this acts in unison with or goes hand-in-hand with the Islamification of the UK...)

289 akak  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:50:24pm

re: #266 ajmurray


2 posts since August?

290 Ojoe  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:50:46pm

re: #285 nyc redneck

Alex McIlveen was that Scott.

291 MarkX  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:50:48pm

re: #281 redstateredneck


Of couse, you name explains it all!

LOL...

292 mama winger  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:50:51pm

re: #283 Ojoe

The Cross symbol appears on so many things of European origin. It's a shame the modern Europeans seem to turn their backs now.

293 koedo  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:50:58pm

What a terrible legacy the last two generations of Britons will be known for: the surrender and intentional murder of their own remarkable nation and culture.

294 jorline  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:51:11pm

re: #263 ethanxxx

30 years? Sounds pretty optimistic to me. I was thinking more like 4 years. One of, if not the main reason, that this medieval cult is allowed to flourish is that it is becoming a crime to point out the murderous doctrine that they adhere to. The only saving grace for the UK may be to adapt more gun rights for its citizens.

I tend to agree with you, ethan. Thirty years is very optimistic, I give them ten max! Everyday citizens throughout Europe are losing the country their fathers and grandfather fought for. Because they've rolled over and appeased this radical fringe they have no one to blame but themselves.

295 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:51:38pm

re: #280 mama winger

Me too. It's funny - I had forgotten that till today.

Still have the American flag & Vatican flag displayed in every Catholic church I've been in.

296 mama winger  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:51:41pm

re: #287 MarkX

This thread is really starting to cause me to be sad.

Never give up. Never give in.

297 republic  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:51:46pm

re: #269 Silhouette

No one likes to pray to "To whom it may concern."

Churches have decided that the God of Justice won't sell well with the masses, because He's all about rules, and nobody likes rules, dude. Likewise the forgiving God, because that implies you've done something to be forgiven for, and no one wants to be told they're a sinner.

They've removed those parts of God and created a false God that they think is more palatable. But removed of His true substance, their false God is made of paper and cobwebs, and disintegrates in the face of pressure as easily as the paper faith it inspires.

/my humble opinion

Spot on!

298 EE  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:52:02pm

Europe has abandoned Christianity, its religion of the past 20 centuries, and the only religious people are the Muslims. So of course the religion of Europe is going to be Islam in the future. The only point of possible disagreement among objective observers is when the change takes place.

CHANGE!
(Change does not always bring things that you want to happen. There are hurricanes, tornadoes, earthquakes and other natural acts that bring change. There is also the change that comes from humans behaving humanly, continuing the trends that they have been following. One of these trends is the Islamization of Europe. It's what's changing there.)

299 nyc redneck  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:52:13pm

re: #243 cookielady

I will stand beside you. I will be proud to have your back. Deal?

let me in on the fun cookielady.

300 reloadingisnotahobby  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:52:15pm

re: #285 nyc redneck

Fighting mad?
Best to plan the battle before the blood boils!
I don't know who said that......
So!..... I guess I did!

301 eschew_obfuscation  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:52:39pm

re: #266 ajmurray

Serves 'em right, the arrogant pricks. The British subjugated people around the world for centuries, from here in America to Egypt, the Sudan, much of the African continent, the Middle East, India, Ireland, Scotland, Wales, the East Indies, Australia, the whole malignant "British Empire". Now they're getting a taste of their own. I hope every last sorry one of them ends up in a burkha praying five times a day in forgiveness for the misery they inflicted on the world.

If that's how you feel, you may have trouble living anywhere in the world. There is almost no part of the world that has not sought empire at one time or another.

302 yma o hyd  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:53:00pm

re: #153 unreconstructed rebel

Myself likewise would be grateful for your rumours as well - then we can weigh them against each other.

303 Occasional Reader  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:53:00pm

re: #266 ajmurray

The British subjugated people around the world for centuries

Every powerful nation in history "subjugated" people. The British generally at least left something positive in their wake; the Common Law tradition not being the least of them. And naturally, all those places you mentioned were enlightened paradises of human happiness before the evil British came, right?

304 jorline  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:53:16pm

re: #266 ajmurray

Serves 'em right, the arrogant pricks. The British subjugated people around the world for centuries, from here in America to Egypt, the Sudan, much of the African continent, the Middle East, India, Ireland, Scotland, Wales, the East Indies, Australia, the whole malignant "British Empire". Now they're getting a taste of their own. I hope every last sorry one of them ends up in a burkha praying five times a day in forgiveness for the misery they inflicted on the world.

Che...is that you?

305 Ojoe  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:53:26pm

re: #292 mama winger

To their loss.

But temporarily I believe.

(Back to work for me.)

306 abolitionist  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:53:29pm

re: #154 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

It could be argued that WWII was in part started by the Japanese, with the seizure of Manchuria, then the invasion of the rest of China.

Yes, and El Duce was field-testing planes, poison gas, tanks, machine guns, and moslem soldiers jihadis in Africa a few years before Germany invaded Poland on Sep 1, 1939.

307 ethanxxx  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:53:39pm
308 Slumbering Behemoth  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:53:55pm

re: #266 ajmurray

t(t")

309 Occasional Reader  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:53:57pm

re: #295 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

Still have the American flag & Vatican flag displayed in every Catholic church I've been in.

Yep. (Well, every Catholic church in the US, anyway.)

310 nyc redneck  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:54:23pm

re: #300 reloadingisnotahobby

Fighting mad?
Best to plan the battle before the blood boils!
I don't know who said that......
So!..... I guess I did!

i bet there are some meetings going on now. (how could there not be at this point?)

311 loppyd  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:54:38pm

re: #271 alegrias

Charles got a hat tip over at the [Link: www.weeklystandard...] blog item about WashPost factchecking candidate's WWII "family legends"!

Also there, good news about a McCain-Romney ticket.

Romney's impressive as a man who gets what we're fighting here, plus he's a man of strong faith who was able to transmit this faith to his children and grandchildren AND who was willing to electronically bug mosques in his state of Massachusetts if they were espousing violence.

moonbats heads exploded throughout the Commonwealth over that one.

BWAAAAHAHAHAHAHA.

Romney would pretty much secure Michigan. McCain will destroy Obama in Florida. You can't win the presidency without them.

Unless you look at the "new map" the Obama people keep referring to.

312 DesertSage  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:54:53pm

re: #292 mama winger

The Cross symbol appears on so many things of European origin. It's a shame the modern Europeans seem to turn their backs now.

If the ACLU had there way, all crosses would be banished from everything that has to do with the government. They were behind the removal of three little tiny crosses that were on the city symbol of Los Angeles. The crosses represented the missionary heritage of L.A.

313 Bubblehead II  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:55:04pm

re: #266 ajmurray

ajmurray

Registered since: Aug 28, 2007 at 5:46 pm
No. of comments posted: 2
No. of links posted: 0

Veeerrryyy Interesting, No?

314 Occasional Reader  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:55:10pm

re: #306 abolitionist

re: #154 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

It could be argued that WWII was in part started by the Japanese, with the seizure of Manchuria, then the invasion of the rest of China.

Yes, and El Duce was field-testing planes, poison gas, tanks, machine guns, and moslem soldiers jihadis in Africa a few years before Germany invaded Poland on Sep 1, 1939.

Really, the whole thing is a continuation of the Great Neanderthal/Cro-Magnon War.

315 ethanxxx  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:55:15pm

re: #296 mama winger

Never give up. Never give in.

Never forget... Never again.

316 EC Marm  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:55:35pm

re: #266 ajmurray
Don't run away. Tell us what you really think.

317 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:55:42pm

re: #306 abolitionist

Yes, and El Duce was field-testing planes, poison gas, tanks, machine guns, and moslem soldiers jihadis in Africa a few years before Germany invaded Poland on Sep 1, 1939.

Didn't know that Mussolini had jihadis in the ranks. I know that Franco's revolt, which began the Spanish Civil War (a dress rehersal for WWII) was manned by his North African muslim forces.

318 Honorary Yooper  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:55:52pm

re: #279 MarkX

LOL.

Obviously, you never attended a 'Bible thumping' church.

Nope, I'm Catholic, so I've never had reason to do so.

I think this Pope is going to fix those parts of the Church that need fixing. As much as people loved JP2, he ignored the problems within the Church to go globetrotting. Benedict has seen the problems for years, and now has a chance to fix them.

319 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:56:27pm

re: #312 DesertSage

If
the ACLU had there way, all crosses would be banished from everything
that has to do with the government. They were behind the removal of
three little tiny crosses that were on the city symbol of Los Angeles.
The crosses represented the missionary heritage of L.A.

No right angles anywhere!

320 mama winger  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:56:34pm

The very un-PC hymn

Onward Christian Soldiers

as sung by Englishmen :)

321 formercorpsman  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:57:00pm

re: #236 redstateredneck

It has to do with one's roots.

322 loppyd  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:58:05pm

Breaking from NY Times:

Democrats Are Advised to Seat Half of 2 States’ Delegations

SNIP


Democratic Party lawyers have determined that no more than half the delegates from Florida and Michigan can be seated at the party’s August convention, dealing a blow to Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton’s efforts to seat the full delegations from those states.

The rules committee of the Democratic National Committee meets on Saturday to determine whether to seat the delegates from these states, which were penalized for holding early primaries.

323 Honorary Yooper  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:58:31pm

re: #295 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

Still have the American flag & Vatican flag displayed in every Catholic church I've been in.

Yep, all but one church I've been to Mass in has been that way. The lone exception was one in Toronto. They had the Canadian flag instead of the US flag (for the obvious reasons). :-)

/It was also a French Mass too.

324 DeathtotheSwiss  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:58:35pm

re: #301 eschew_obfuscation

Personally, I rather admire the Imperial Structure. Although, I guess I'm not supposed to admit that?

Still, I wonder what anyone would expect the U.S. to do if, let's say, we were attacked with a nuclear weapon in one or two major cities. Would we sit back and just pretend it never happened like liberals pretend 9/11 was a fluke/government conspiracy or would we immediately re-instate the draft, execute those who refuse to serve, invade every terror-sponsoring nation in the world and perhaps even ban any religious teachings that didn't favor the surviving politicians in power? I imagine the world would realize the true meaning of the word "empire" in such a case.

What do you guys think?

325 Silhouette  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:59:09pm

re: #313 Bubblehead II

All that Brit-hatin' takes up too much time to post.

326 Silhouette  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:59:34pm

re: #322 loppyd

But how is this Bush's fault?

327 nyc redneck  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:59:47pm

re: #290 Ojoe

Alex McIlveen was that Scott.

yes, thanks for remember his name. and what a humble hero he was. he said, he just did what anyone would have done.

328 stuiec  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:00:03pm

re: #107 Slumbering Behemoth

That may cause some tremors, but just wait until they try to take away their football soccer. The very foundations of the earth will quake.


But they won't try to take away the football -- they'll just try to make the fans watch it without alcohol. I have to think that the only thing more frightening than a horde of lager louts is a horde of lager louts that have been denied their lager.

329 amphibian  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:00:24pm

Way to go, Rowan. On the one hand this is a bit like Pres. Peanut's malaise speech: "I can't see any way out of this [because, Jimmy, you are an idiot], therefore, there can not possibly be any way out of it". On the other hand, it sounds like England has a very big problem. Pity. There was something likable in a country that could both pull off an heroic defense against Hitler and invent the Tea Goblin ([Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

Last Brit out, please turn off the lights (do it for the polar bears!).

330 yma o hyd  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:00:26pm

re: #185 nyc redneck

Indeed not.
There was a by-election (thats when a MP dies, for example: an eelction to 'man' that seat again) last Thursday - Labour held that seat for an eternity.
Huge swing to the Tories - they got 49.something of the votes ...
Labour got about 30%...
The groundswell is there, and it is rising - and it won't be the BNP who'll be the winner!
It is difficult to convey the feelings and opinions of the normal British citizens, where all you get to know about it are the MSM, who are a0 London-based, and b) have been lefties for a very long time ...

331 quickjustice  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:00:33pm

The church editorial is direct and truthful. For that reason alone, it merits praise. We now know that there are two sane people (the editorialist and Dr. Darymple) in all of England.

The question now becomes: what are the English prepared to do, if anything, to defend their civilization? I suppose they could begin by attending the Sunday services in Temple Church, London, sanctified by the Pope in the year 1100 during the Crusades.

332 cookielady  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:00:44pm

re: #193 mama winger

The Church of England is not synonymous with Christianity. There are other, growing, churches in England besides the state church. Pentecostal churches are gaining in attendance. People will go to wherever the actual Gospel is preached and lived out. Churches that have substituted the leftist agenda for Christianity will be found wanting. Marxism always leads to failure, whatever the setting.

Onward Christian soldiers, marching as to war.

Amen! Preach it, my sistah!

333 indythinker  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:00:58pm

The Brits have emasculated themselves. How pathetic.

334 formercorpsman  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:01:06pm

re: #237 Killgore Trout

Killgore, you do have an element of truth.

However, it is also their rampant secularism dictated by those with a religious fervor for socialism who see the past a barricade to their progress.

This train has been barreling down the tracks for years, and is now blowing the whistle as it is approaching the station.

335 Ringo the Gringo  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:01:33pm
re: #107 Slumbering Behemoth

That may cause some tremors, but just wait until they try to take away their football soccer. The very foundations of the earth will quake.

That may cause some tremors, but just wait until they try to close down the pubs. The very foundations of the earth will quake.

Fixed it.

336 alegrias  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:01:33pm

re: #311 loppyd

moonbats heads exploded throughout the Commonwealth over that one.

BWAAAAHAHAHAHAHA.

Romney would pretty much secure Michigan. McCain will destroy Obama in Florida. You can't win the presidency without them.

Unless you look at the "new map" the Obama people keep referring to.

* * *
How cool was it that a religious person (Romney) who doesn't drink coffee, tea or chai or Coke, was governor of Massachusetts, and believes in defending this country and our peaceful faith communities from radical violent ideologies that target us specifically? Thank you, Massachusetts voters with a conscience.

Romney's election there, and (short) candidacy for president are great achievements in my book. I love his sunny disposition and STRENGTH & VIGOR. Romney visibly loves this country and its commitment to individuals' faiths--not totalitarian ideologies masquerading as faiths while undermining our laws with Sharia.

Plus Romney is intelligent and appreciates what makes America strong--individuals achieving their individual goals of life, liberty, pursuit of happiness, business, trade, expansion of freedom.

337 loppyd  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:01:41pm

re: #326 Silhouette

But how is this Bush's fault?

Give it a few minutes. LOL

BBL

338 markx  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:01:51pm

re: #320 mama winger

The very un-PC hymn

Onward Christian Soldiers

as sung by Englishmen :)

And sad to think it was written by an Englishman.

339 reloadingisnotahobby  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:01:59pm

re: #320 mama winger

BEAUTIFUL!
Still in our pew Hymnals!
Stll sung also!

340 jorline  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:03:01pm

re: #266 ajmurray

Serves 'em right, the arrogant pricks. The British subjugated people around the world for centuries, from here in America to Egypt, the Sudan, much of the African continent, the Middle East, India, Ireland, Scotland, Wales, the East Indies, Australia, the whole malignant "British Empire". Now they're getting a taste of their own. I hope every last sorry one of them ends up in a burkha praying five times a day in forgiveness for the misery they inflicted on the world.

Wait until you live under Islamic law...tell then how oppressive the "British Empire" really was...ass-hat!

341 yma o hyd  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:03:04pm

re: #186 TalkinKamel

He knows that there is no way at all that he can 'get power'.
If he thinks he might do so on the abck of some islamists, then - and I'm sure he knows that - it'll be the very swift end of the British Monarchy, never mind the House of Windsor ...

342 kuffarharbi  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:03:04pm

Great church scene from John Ford's 'My Darling Clementine'

343 Who Watches the Watchmen?  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:03:10pm

re: #306 abolitionist

Yes, and El Duce was field-testing planes, poison gas, tanks, machine guns, and moslem soldiers jihadis in Africa a few years before Germany invaded Poland on Sep 1, 1939.

Wasn't El Duce Obama's Great-Uncle-in-law who broke the color barrier with the 1937 Yankees?

344 loppyd  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:03:18pm

re: #336 alegrias

Plus he is easy on the eyes.

Seriously, I was proud to call him my governor and would feel even greater pride were he to be our country's V.P.

Really gone now.

BBL if the crazies stop calling!

345 Eowyn2  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:03:29pm

re: #276 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

Well yes, but did you know that Longshanks grandson had his mother impaled?

346 DesertSage  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:03:51pm

re: #322 loppyd

Breaking from NY Times:

Democrats Are Advised to Seat Half of 2 States’ Delegations

SNIP

Obama - Selected...not elected!

What ever happened to "every vote counts, count every vote!"

347 republic  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:03:56pm

Off Topic,

Great read......

The economy consumes the nightly newscasts. Broadcast networks report that America’s finances are “like a house of cards.” ABC, CBS and NBC even hyped similarities to the Great Depression more than 40 times in the first four months of 2008. But that parallel doesn’t hold up, especially when analyzing the news of that era. In fact, daily coverage of the 1929 stock market crash strongly emphasized the positive side of events. The New York Times that year summed up a six-day Dow Jones loss of 30 percent as: “the market quickly regained its poise and stability.” In 2008, coverage has taken the opposite tone, even though the Dow dropped just 1/100th of 1 percent in the days after the collapse of investment bank Bear Stearns. ABC found a dark cloud for every silver lining, saying: “And everywhere you look, it’s bad news.” On network news, that statement was accurate.


http://www.businessandmedia.org/specialreports/200 8/GreatDepression/GreatDepression_execsum.asp

348 mama winger  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:03:56pm

re: #339 reloadingisnotahobby

BEAUTIFUL!
Still in our pew Hymnals!
Stll sung also!

Some hymnals that still include it have changed it to "Onward Christian Pilgrims".

wussing out is not attractive :)

349 nyc redneck  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:04:01pm

re: #330 yma o hyd

Indeed not.
There was a by-election (thats when a MP dies, for example: an eelction to 'man' that seat again) last Thursday - Labour held that seat for an eternity.
Huge swing to the Tories - they got 49.something of the votes ...
Labour got about 30%...
The groundswell is there, and it is rising - and it won't be the BNP who'll be the winner!
It is difficult to convey the feelings and opinions of the normal British citizens, where all you get to know about it are the MSM, who are a0 London-based, and b) have been lefties for a very long time ...



kind of our problem too. glad to hear this positive election news.

350 Eowyn2  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:04:04pm

i gotta go do some work

351 docremulac  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:04:15pm

And this will be the legacy of warpigs like George Monbiot who turned their people over to the barbarians so they could get a little more power.

(I'm not calling leftists "peace activists" as they call themselves any more. They're warpigs supporting war against, and the conquering and domination of our people)

352 alegrias  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:04:39pm

re: #312 DesertSage

If the ACLU had there way, all crosses would be banished from everything that has to do with the government. They were behind the removal of three little tiny crosses that were on the city symbol of Los Angeles. The crosses represented the missionary heritage of L.A.

* * *
Socialist Spanish government was reported in today's La Razon as trying to do just that to christian symbols, in a once super-Catholic country that was ruled by a Holy Roman Emperor who persecuted Martin Luther on behalf of the Pope for being an "infidel" to Catholicism.

Socialist Spanish government however funds mosques & mosque maintenance. Kind of like American universities charge students fees to support the Mohammedan Student groups! This is so wrong.

353 Who Watches the Watchmen?  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:05:27pm

And did those feet in ancient time,
Walk upon England’s mountains green:
And was the holy Lamb of God,
On England’s pleasant pastures seen!

And did the Countenance Divine,
Shine forth upon our clouded hills?
And was Jerusalem builded here,
Among these dark Satanic Mills?

Bring me my Bow of burning gold;
Bring me my Arrows of desire:
Bring me my Spear: O clouds unfold:
Bring me my Chariot of fire!

I will not cease from Mental Fight,
Nor Shall my sword sleep in my hand:
Till we have built Jerusalem,
In England’s green & pleasant Land.

354 reloadingisnotahobby  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:05:28pm

re: #348 mama winger
Indeed... Sad!

355 ploome hineni[deleted]  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:05:33pm
356 republic  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:05:35pm

re: #322 loppyd

Breaking from NY Times:

Democrats Are Advised to Seat Half of 2 States’ Delegations

SNIP

The party of "EVERY VOTE MUST BE COUNTED" shows its utter hypocrisy!

357 formercorpsman  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:05:56pm

re: #266 ajmurray

Of course.

2 comments.

358 mama winger  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:05:59pm

re: #338 markx

And sad to think it was written by an Englishman.

That's a very interesting Wiki article. Thanks! I did not know that.

359 Land Shark  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:06:00pm

re: #285 nyc redneck

i'm heartened by people like the airport worker in glasgow who kicked the sh*t out of that flaming jihadi. there are many people who will fight. they're not mad enough yet. many are smoldering now and when their anger combusts there's going to be some singeing. in fact, the world may call on us to put out the fire. i'll vote no. unless it's to help the brits. (my guess is they won't need it).

I'm heartened by the airport worker's bravery too. And I see more and more signs that the British public is starting to get fed up. But unless things change they are going to have to get mad and not take it anymore soon.

If the usually clueless Church of England is that aware of the growing power of Islam in the UK, then things are as bad as we have feared. And with the UK's Labour government encouraging this take over at all levels, then the recent Conservative victory didn't come a moment too soon. The question is, can they reverse the slide into Sharia? Do they have the testicular mass to even try? Stay tuned.

360 ishabibble  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:06:15pm

re: #266 ajmurray

Serves 'em right, the arrogant pricks. The British subjugated people around the world for centuries, from here in America to Egypt, the Sudan, much of the African continent, the Middle East, India, Ireland, Scotland, Wales, the East Indies, Australia, the whole malignant "British Empire". Now they're getting a taste of their own. I hope every last sorry one of them ends up in a burkha praying five times a day in forgiveness for the misery they inflicted on the world.

You sound just like my dear, departed Nan. Heaven knows, she had her reasons, probably much more than most who came from Ireland.
If she were here today, staring into the face of death cult Islam, she would fight alongside the Brits to the death. I know she would, she was the strongest person I've ever known. And she knew good from evil. Injustices, no matter how appalling, do not trump pure evil.

361 cookielady  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:06:23pm

re: #234 MarkX

That's the womens work.

*ducks*

just kidding,
just kidding,
just kidding,

Sweetiepie, I will bring sandwiches, and then I will bring it to the enemy. I am woman, I can cook AND shoot!

362 Occasional Reader  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:06:44pm

re: #343 Who Watches the Watchmen?

Wasn't El Duce Obama's Great-Uncle-in-law who broke the color barrier with the 1937 Yankees?

No, you're thinking of the guy who broke the color barrier in the U.S. Army's Explosive Ordnance Disposal teams: Satchel Charge.

/rimshot

363 eschew_obfuscation  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:06:44pm

re: #324 DeathtotheSwiss

Personally, I rather admire the Imperial Structure. Although, I guess I'm not supposed to admit that?

Still, I wonder what anyone would expect the U.S. to do if, let's say, we were attacked with a nuclear weapon in one or two major cities. Would we sit back and just pretend it never happened like liberals pretend 9/11 was a fluke/government conspiracy or would we immediately re-instate the draft, execute those who refuse to serve, invade every terror-sponsoring nation in the world and perhaps even ban any religious teachings that didn't favor the surviving politicians in power? I imagine the world would realize the true meaning of the word "empire" in such a case.

What do you guys think?

I think that's a bit over the top (I hope it is), but I would expect a robust reaction, such as that which followed 9/11.

Although much maligned, I favor GWB's approach of democratizing as much or the world as possible, as peacefully as possible. Free the oppressed and help them learn to govern themselves. Democracies exist in far more of the world today than 50 years ago and they generally do not attack their neighbors or make attempts at empirialism.

Not all attempts will take root, but we have examples of many that did. Japan, India, South Korea, Germany, France, England, India, Australia..........Iraq?

364 Dave the.....  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:06:46pm
Onward Christian soldiers, marching as to war.

That song has been banned by leftwing Christian churches in the US. At my parents very liberal church, they even have changed the words to the little kiddie song "Jesus loves the little children". No longer can they say "red and yellow, black and white". The church hierarchy has substituted new words in....and they just don't fit. You can't take a melodic song with well known words, and force new PC words into it.

365 Killgore Trout  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:06:52pm

re: #334 formercorpsman

However, it is also their rampant secularism dictated by those with a religious fervor for socialism who see the past a barricade to their progress.


Interesting. That does give me an idea that could help Christianity in Europe. All too often the Vatican issues statements about poverty, inequality, etc. I think the people of Europe would benefit from an "Americanized" form of Christianity; stressing values like hard work, independence, frugality, etc. I think that would give the believers something that could better their lives.

366 Opinionated  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:06:54pm

We have to start making a determination to which British citizens we are willing to give sanctuary.

No to any one who is helping this occur.

No to anyone who ever worked for the BBC.

367 mama winger  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:06:57pm

re: #353 Who Watches the Watchmen?

Beautiful ......

368 jcm  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:07:43pm

re: #324 DeathtotheSwiss

An Empire relies two much on the morals and judgment of it's leaders.

Our advantage, which is slipping IMHO with the tyranny of the judiciary, is the RULE of LAW. Laws which are moral, fair, and universally enforced. Rule of law, coupled with the federal system as conceived by the founders which keeps decision making at the smallest unit of government practical for that decision. Is by far the best system devised by men so far.

Using that system we don't need an empire. We can lead by example.

HOWEVER want we must do is make the consequences of terror so awesome that the cost benefit of the tactic of terror is no longer useful to anyone. That takes an commitment, a commitment to respond to every provocation with consequences so astonishingly immense, that no state would risk allow such a thing let alone support it.

369 pegcity  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:07:45pm

Remember the white flight out of South Africa,

i know im gonna sponser lots of families here in Canada

370 kuffarharbi  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:07:50pm

re: #335 Ringo the Gringo

That may cause some tremors, but just wait until they try to close down the pubs. The very foundations of the earth will quake.

Fixed it.

Yep, the spiritual heart of the two most popular TV shows....Coronation Street and Eastenders...is the pub. That's reality checkpoint for all the protagonists. Sacred space to a Brit.

371 wolfie  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:07:54pm

re: #318 Honorary Yooper

At least he knows that the single most important thing to be restored is the sacred liturgy.
I don't necessarily mean a return to the Latin Tridentine Mass, but a restoration of the sacred.
No one can read his works w/o knowing that, if he had a magic wand, he would immediately return to an ad oriens Mass, for starters.
What he can do and how fast he can do it are limited, however.

Destruction is quick and easy. Rebuilding takes effort and patience.

372 Slumbering Behemoth  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:08:33pm

Well, all this talk of sandwiches has made me hungry.

Catch ya later, Lizards!

373 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:08:35pm

re: #345 Eowyn2

Well yes, but did you know that Longshanks grandson had his mother impaled?


Eww. I knew that royal families tend towards inbreeded, but that's just wrong.
/

374 mama winger  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:08:42pm

re: #364 Dave the.....

That song has been banned by leftwing Christian churches in the US. At my parents very liberal church, they even have changed the words to the little kiddie song "Jesus loves the little children". No longer can they say "red and yellow, black and white". The church hierarchy has substituted new words in....and they just don't fit. You can't take a melodic song with well known words, and force new PC words into it.

Oh for the love of pete.

375 bulwrk  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:08:48pm

re: #266 ajmurray

A lot of those countries that were subject to British rule seem to be doing pretty well today with the exception of the African continent where islam is active in government.

376 ploome hineni[deleted]  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:09:19pm
377 DesertSage  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:09:28pm

re: #352 alegrias

* * *
Socialist Spanish government was reported in today's La Razon as trying to do just that to christian symbols, in a once super-Catholic country that was ruled by a Holy Roman Emperor who persecuted Martin Luther on behalf of the Pope for being an "infidel" to Catholicism.

Socialist Spanish government however funds mosques & mosque maintenance. Kind of like American universities charge students fees to support the Mohammedan Student groups! This is so wrong.

Andalusia!

378 ploome hineni[deleted]  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:10:25pm
379 Iron Fist  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:10:27pm

re: #40 Agahnim,

If a man (or Nation) dethrones God in his heart, the Devil is sure to take up residence.

380 WriterMom  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:10:39pm

re: #365 Killgore Trout

Europe sucks and is in decline. Americans have great churches, but America and the American way of life (in religion, work, politics, everything) is considered second rate in Europe. If Europeans want to have a better spiritual life, and not be taken over by Islam, they are going to have to do it by their own frigging selves. Or not.

381 bosforus  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:11:21pm

Just what the West needs, Muslims inching closer and closer to the Royal Navy.

382 WriterMom  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:11:39pm

And-the Europeans who wanted the American way of life left. Or are leaving.

383 ajmurray  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:11:43pm

You guys get all uppity, don't ya, when someone presents a different point of view? Let me tell you something: I was born and raised in Ireland. My granmother fought in the 1916 rising against their British masters, knew Patrick Pearse who was executed by the British for leading the rebellion, knew Kevin Barry who was hung at 18 years of age because he would not tell the names of others. To the clown who asked why I now speak English the answer is because the Brits banned the Irish language, jailed those who dared speak it and destroyed manuscripts and books written in it. I have no pity for the current state of affairs in England.

And, yes, two posts since August. I don't surf the Internet all day. I have a job. You might want to try it sometime. 'Tis a pity that the number of posts would be considered a badge of honor. Seems to me a sign of intellectual decay.

384 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:11:55pm

re: #365 Killgore Trout

I never thought I'd ding you up for a comment about Christianity!
I think I need to go lay down for a while.

385 Killgore Trout  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:12:10pm

re: #355 ploome hineni

True, I think Christianity didn't perform well in WWII Europe. The years that followed were decades of sexual abuse of children. I think that really hurt the Church's image. But I also think that most people recognize the Churches as a man made institutions and are imperfect. People still need spirituality and would easily return to the churches if it filled the proper needs for them.

386 Widow'smight  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:12:11pm

re: #255 republic

In a fight between the ACLU and the God of Abraham (not the Pilsbury crescent one), I'll bet on Emmanuel. My point was that by removing Crosses from public places, which were symbols of our great Christian heritage, they have not hurt any Christians ability to worship.
Christianity to me is a personal relationship, and the ACLU believes they can destroy Christianity by removing crosses. In my opinion, Anyone who is marginally Christian will be more apt to pursue Christ than reject him because of a bunch of little Twits in the ACLU.

Fighting Evil is a good thing, I do it every day while raising my 3 girsl and loving my wife. But no one but me can fight the evil that lurks in me, and that's the most important struggle. The ability to replace self with selflessness and boldly face all evil you face.

Courage isn't an absense of fear, rather an absense of self.

Onward Christian soldiers. Sing it Mama Winger.

387 formercorpsman  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:12:29pm

re: #365 Killgore Trout


I don't think I have ever agreed with you more.

388 jcm  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:12:49pm

re: #381 bosforus

Just what the West needs, Muslims inching closer and closer to the Royal Navy.

No problem, dawn morning prayers all ships will point to Mecca, every butt on board will be in the air.........

389 alegrias  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:13:03pm

re: #365 Killgore Trout

Interesting. That does give me an idea that could help Christianity in Europe. All too often the Vatican issues statements about poverty, inequality, etc. I think the people of Europe would benefit from an "Americanized" form of Christianity; stressing values like hard work, independence, frugality, etc. I think that would give the believers something that could better their lives.

* * *
Socialist governments in these nanny states have taken over individuals' responsibility for themselves, and perhaps disincentivized families striving for themselves and their childrens' futures.

It's what democrats promise Americans too, nanny-state will fill your every need, educate your children, cradle to grave, if you just turn yourself in and give up your private beliefs.

390 WriterMom  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:13:12pm

re: #383 ajmurray

I have a job. You might want to try it sometime. 'Tis a pity that the number of posts would be considered a badge of honor. Seems to me a sign of intellectual decay.

Did you write the book "How to Make Friends and Influence People"?

/lighten up.

391 yma o hyd  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:13:12pm

re: #285 nyc redneck

You can be pretty certain of that!
And it will be the ordinary folk (who are slowly smouldering already) - and not the self-proclaimed 'leaders' of political parties, or other establishment figures.

392 reloadingisnotahobby  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:13:17pm

re: #375 bulwrk

Actually..WRONG!
Burma is a great example as to what happened when the
colonist left and gave them over to self rule!
Just to name one!
one week after the cyclone they claimed 92%
voter turn out to reellect the same military dicktater!
HONK! I call Bullshit!

393 Killgore Trout  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:13:26pm

re: #384 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

Heh.

394 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:13:35pm

re: #383 ajmurray

You guys get all uppity, don't ya, when someone presents a different
point of view? Let me tell you something: I was born and raised in
Ireland. My granmother fought in the 1916 rising against their British
masters, knew Patrick Pearse who was executed by the British for
leading the rebellion, knew Kevin Barry who was hung at 18 years of age
because he would not tell the names of others.

Was Obama's uncle there, too?

395 ploome hineni[deleted]  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:13:37pm
396 jcm  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:13:39pm

Sniff, Sniff....
Is there a smell in here all of a sudden?

397 mama winger  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:13:45pm

re: #365 Killgore Trout

I think you are getting close to something, Killgore. What has happened to the lefty churches is that they have substituted leftist philosophies for the Christian message, and equated the two.

What is needed are churches that show that the Gospel RESULTS in good works. Good works are not the Gospel. One is the Source, the other is the outflow. Leftist churches have abandoned their Source, and are surprised when results dwindle.

398 Silhouette  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:14:40pm

re: #374 mama winger

Oh for the love of pete.

Please, no "male-only" names. Try to choose a gender-neutral one that also reflects many cultures respresented here today. Or at least one that doesn't sound white.

399 WriterMom  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:14:45pm

re: #397 mama winger

Absolutely. Leftist churches worship liberalism.

400 BGB!  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:14:57pm

BREAKING: Man Unable To Read Spanish Sign Ticketed

ARLINGTON, Texas -- An Arlington man says not knowing Spanish earned him a ticket after police stopped him in an area in McKinney designated to accommodate day laborers.

He got stopped on Highway 5 and Louisiana Street in McKinney where signs are printed in both English and Spanish.

"Most people that come into this area are able to notice there are signs in English and Spanish as well," said Lt. Scott Brewer.

The Spanish language signs say 'Prohibido estacionar y parar' and have English signs above them or facing another direction that say 'No parking, standing or stopping.'

"It helps out in that they stay away from your property," said Jesse Raymundo of Magna Craft Furniture, a business in the area.

Raymundo said the bilingual signs make it clear to everyone where day laborers and employers should meet.

"People now speak both languages and some people only speak one so it kind of helps out," he said.

McKinney city officials said it has no plans to change its policy or signs.

"For us, it's a quality of life issue. We know that they're opportunities here, we've just taken the appropriate steps, we think, to make it go safely," Brewer said.

401 WriterMom  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:15:08pm

re: #398 Silhouette

Oh for the love of PAT.

Hahahaha.

402 mama winger  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:15:41pm

re: #389 alegrias

The government has taken the place of fathers, and of God.

403 patrickafir  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:15:45pm

Not just the UK, all of Europe. The worship of secular statism, untenable welfare entitlements, and a complete failure to reproduce (compared to Muslim hyper-reproduction) has made this inevitable. And they hate us because we didn't hop onto this suicide train with them (even though we've footed the bill for their defense since WWII). This is one fire that the U.S. won't be able to pull Europe's butt out of.

404 yma o hyd  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:16:06pm

re: #294 jorline

Please do not let the European and other MSM give you this false impression of what the people in the various European countries think!

After all - you're not taking at face value what you read in your MSM!

405 mama winger  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:16:46pm

re: #398 Silhouette

Please, no "male-only" names. Try to choose a gender-neutral one that also reflects many cultures respresented here today. Or at least one that doesn't sound white.

hahahahaa ! Next time I might use Lee or sumpin :)

406 amphibian  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:16:55pm

re: #133 Ringo the Gringo

A friend of mine in New Zealand tells me that Brits are immigrating down there in such numbers that the Kiwis are worried that in 30 years New Zealand will be British!

I thought the Kiwis were already known as "South Sea Poms"?

407 formercorpsman  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:17:04pm

re: #383 ajmurray

No aj.

Representing a different point of view?

You jumped in, threw bombs, and were called on it.

If you think Ireland has anything to gain, by having the U.K. become an Islamic state, say so.

408 republic  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:17:05pm

re: #386 Widow'smight

In a fight between the ACLU and the God of Abraham (not the Pilsbury crescent one), I'll bet on Emmanuel. My point was that by removing Crosses from public places, which were symbols of our great Christian heritage, they have not hurt any Christians ability to worship.
Christianity to me is a personal relationship, and the ACLU believes they can destroy Christianity by removing crosses. In my opinion, Anyone who is marginally Christian will be more apt to pursue Christ than reject him because of a bunch of little Twits in the ACLU.

Fighting Evil is a good thing, I do it every day while raising my 3 girsl and loving my wife. But no one but me can fight the evil that lurks in me, and that's the most important struggle. The ability to replace self with selflessness and boldly face all evil you face.

Courage isn't an absense of fear, rather an absense of self.

Onward Christian soldiers. Sing it Mama Winger.


I agree.

409 freetoken  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:17:09pm

I'm surprised some of you haven't yet blamed Darwin... he was, after all, English and his ideas certainly knocked the legs out from under some of the teachings of the Church of England.

410 eschew_obfuscation  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:17:19pm

re: #383 ajmurray

You guys get all uppity, don't ya, when someone presents a different point of view? Let me tell you something: I was born and raised in Ireland. My granmother fought in the 1916 rising against their British masters, knew Patrick Pearse who was executed by the British for leading the rebellion, knew Kevin Barry who was hung at 18 years of age because he would not tell the names of others. To the clown who asked why I now speak English the answer is because the Brits banned the Irish language, jailed those who dared speak it and destroyed manuscripts and books written in it. I have no pity for the current state of affairs in England.

And, yes, two posts since August. I don't surf the Internet all day. I have a job. You might want to try it sometime. 'Tis a pity that the number of posts would be considered a badge of honor. Seems to me a sign of intellectual decay.

Here in the states, we had plenty of ancestors abused and killed by the British in our Revolutionary War.......and yet, we manage to have Great Britain as one of our staunchest allies......we don't sit around whining about how we were wronged.

Grow up!

411 Ma Sands  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:17:37pm

re: #193 mama winger

:) This has been the longest 1 1/2 weeks in my life.....almost..... :)

Welcome home.

412 nyc redneck  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:17:38pm

re: #139 MandyManners

winston churchill was a great man. i agree that a nation can't lose it's courage in one generation. i think the brits are going to get their second wind.

413 EC Marm  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:17:41pm

re: #400 BGB!
TFK mentioned that this morning but didn't have a link.
You bailed on your old nic, I see.
BDS finally gotcha?

414 WriterMom  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:17:51pm

Blame Darwin!

Yes-now the thread is going to get interesting.

I'M LEAVING!

415 Wishbone  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:17:59pm

re: #383 ajmurray

You're another one who thinks we should be forever apologising for our past. Harbour your grievance if you will, that's your right. Just don't expect us to give too much of a toss about it.

Does the Irish language no longer exist then?. Hardly, inasmuch as it's now only spoken by a minority. What you really mean is that you blame us 'cos you were too lazy to fucking learn it.

416 mama winger  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:18:03pm

re: #386 Widow'smight

Onward Christian soldiers. Sing it Mama Winger.

Oh my. that wouldn't be prudent.

417 mama winger  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:19:15pm

re: #411 Ma Sands

:) This has been the longest 1 1/2 weeks in my life.....almost..... :)

Welcome home.

Awww, thanks Ma. Good to be back. Although I can only stay online a couple of more minutes. How are you?

418 unreconstructed rebel  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:19:27pm

re: #267 mama winger

Mama Winger,

With all due respect, the flag you show is a variant of one of many "christian" church or denominational flags.

After all, the Union Jack is a composite of the Flag of St George (England) and the Flag of St Andrew (Scotland).

But, thanks for the pic. Never saw it called that before.

419 Peacekeeper  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:20:00pm

2040
The US Destroyer Johnson was damaged earlier today in a collision with the UIK Warship HMS Jenin in an incident that highlights rising tensions between the two naval powers.
Ever since the election of the English Islamic Party to power in 2033, tensions have continued to increase. In particular they have been stoked by the United Islamic Kingdom's claims to Canada and Australia and New Zealand, not mention the Prime Minister's call to "wipe Israel from the map".

420 republic  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:20:03pm

I have not yet seen a thread that talked of religion, as this one today, that by now hadn't turned into a pie throwing session.

LGF Rocks!

421 Ma Sands  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:20:31pm

re: #417 mama winger

Fine, now that you are around..... :)

422 alegrias  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:20:47pm

re: #402 mama winger

The government has taken the place of fathers, and of God.

* * *
Another thing I liked about Mitt Romney was he said FATHERS were important to families. DUH, one might say, but right now we have a candidate who has so many male surrogate father figures, he can't remember their relationship to him, nor name them nor recall what they did where.

Strong muscular father figures who preserve protect & defend their families, in the Western tradition, are a good thing for society.

423 bulwrk  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:20:59pm

re: #383 ajmurray

I have no pity for the current state of affairs in England.


Ireland is right down the street and you're next.

424 J.S.  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:21:19pm

re: #368 jcm

I just finished reading "The Genius of America" (I recommend the book to everyone)...and, you know, I really don't think the American experience can be repeated anywhere else in the world...America is unique...(imo, the most fantastic, marvelous government without parallel). Here in Canada -- we have a parliamentary system -- and it's a totally different form of governance...(I actually think it would be to the determent of Canada to try to emulate a U.S. system -- such as to try to put in place a U.S. style senate, etc.; it wouldn't work...)

425 markx  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:21:37pm

re: #361 cookielady

Sweetiepie, I will bring sandwiches, and then I will bring it to the enemy. I am woman, I can cook AND shoot!

I don't doubt you a bit.

My eldest daughter is a better shot with a .38 than me.
For some reason I can out shoot her with a 9mm though.

I haven't started taking my youngest daughter to the range yet. But she will go when she is older.

Like I said, it was just a joke. :- )

<