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Church of England: UK Will Be an Islamic State in 30 Years

Wed, May 28, 2008 at 11:45:22 am PDT

At the Church of England’s official newspaper, an extraordinary (in a very bad way) editorial says Britain will be an Islamic state within 30 years.

If recent reports of trends in religious observance prove to be correct, then in some 30 years the mosque will be able to claim that, religiously speaking, the UK is an Islamic nation, and therefore needs a share in any religious establishment to reflect this. The progress of conservative Islam in the UK has been amazing, and it has come at a time of prolonged decline in church attendance that seems likely to continue.

This progress has been enthusiastically assisted by this government in particular with its hard-line multi-cultural dogma and willingness to concede to virtually every demand made by Muslims. Perhaps most importantly the government has chosen to allow hard-liners to act as representing all Muslims, and more liberal Muslims have almost completely failed to produce any leadership voices to compete, leading many Britons to wonder if there are indeed many liberal Muslims at all, surely a mistake.

At all levels of national life Islam has gained state funding, protection from any criticism, and the insertion of advisors and experts in government departs national and local. A Muslim Home Office adviser, for example, was responsible for Baroness Scotland’s aborting of the legislation against honour killings, arguing that informal methods would be better. In the police we hear of girls under police protection having the addresses of their safe houses disclosed to their parents by Muslim officers who think they are doing their religious duty.

Read it all, and weep.

(Hat tip: Robert Jago.)

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581 comments

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1 Eowyn2  Wed, May 28, 2008 11:47:18am
more liberal Muslims have almost completely failed to produce any leadership voices to compete, leading many Britons to wonder if there are indeed many liberal Muslims at all, surely a mistake.

ITS BECAUSE THEY HAVE ALREADY BEEN SILENCED.

2 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  Wed, May 28, 2008 11:48:05am

So much for defending the faith or the faithful

3 joncelli  Wed, May 28, 2008 11:48:15am

As Henry VIII's body achieves high RPMs in his grave.

4 chinesearithmetic  Wed, May 28, 2008 11:48:18am

What's there for God to save?

5 lawhawk  Wed, May 28, 2008 11:48:57am

Words I hope never to hear:

Who lost Britain to the Islamists?

6 markie  Wed, May 28, 2008 11:49:40am

It's 1933 all over again!

7 Sleepyone  Wed, May 28, 2008 11:49:44am
In the police we hear of girls under police protection having the addresses of their safe houses disclosed to their parents by Muslim officers who think they are doing their religious duty.

That's f'd up.

8 JamesTKirk  Wed, May 28, 2008 11:49:54am

Arrest Bolton, that will make it all better.

/

9 MandyManners  Wed, May 28, 2008 11:49:56am
more liberal Muslims have almost completely failed to produce any leadership voices to compete, leading many Britons to wonder if there are indeed many liberal Muslims at all

If they exist, they're probably scared witless to come forward.

10 JohnnyReb  Wed, May 28, 2008 11:49:59am

I give them about 15 years max myself.

11 jcm  Wed, May 28, 2008 11:50:12am

Church of England surrenders to Stan.

12 joncelli  Wed, May 28, 2008 11:50:14am
Perhaps most importantly the government has chosen to allow hard-liners to act as representing all Muslims, and more liberal Muslims have almost completely failed to produce any leadership voices to compete, leading many Britons to wonder if there are indeed many liberal Muslims at all, surely a mistake.

Are you quite certain about that?

13 redc1c4  Wed, May 28, 2008 11:50:26am

and yet they're still looking for "liberal muslims"....... WTF?

you can't find what doesn't exist.

14 JamesTKirk  Wed, May 28, 2008 11:50:35am

re: #11 jcm

Church of England surrenders to Stan.

They're all out of cake. Only one choice left.

15 Dayenu  Wed, May 28, 2008 11:50:47am

I guess Churchill was right that World War 2 was Britain's finest hour, 'cause this surely ain't!

16 reloadingisnotahobby  Wed, May 28, 2008 11:51:10am

30 years?
Let's see... That would be 2038....
Hm ? What happened 100 years before?
1938? I'll have to think on this.....

17 Abu Boo Boo  Wed, May 28, 2008 11:51:12am
A Muslim Home Office adviser, for example, was responsible for Baroness Scotland’s aborting of the legislation against honour killings, arguing that informal methods would be better. In the police we hear of girls under police protection having the addresses of their safe houses disclosed to their parents by Muslim officers who think they are doing their religious duty.

We are witnessing the slow death of Western civilization.

18 republic  Wed, May 28, 2008 11:51:27am

I sure am glad that the U.S. Constitution gaurentees that there will never be a state run religion in the USA.

/sarc

"OK class, today, and for the next several months, we are going to study Islam, you will all take a Muslim name, and we will study how Islam is a religion of peace."

No sarc!

19 reloadingisnotahobby  Wed, May 28, 2008 11:51:39am

re: #6 markie

It's 1933 all over again!

Hah! You beat me to it!

20 Occasional Reader  Wed, May 28, 2008 11:51:45am
an extraordinary (in a very bad way) editorial

I'd actually characterize this as an extraordinarily FRANK, honest editorial. I mean, some of the language is positively lizardian:

This progress [of Islam] has been enthusiastically assisted by this government in particular with its hard-line multi-cultural dogma and willingness to concede to virtually every demand made by Muslims.

21 Abu Boo Boo  Wed, May 28, 2008 11:52:45am

I figured it out.

John Bolton's speech at the Hay Festival is just a cover. He's really there to help organize the underground resistance to the IslamoNazis.

/I hope

22 Ringo the Gringo  Wed, May 28, 2008 11:52:55am
30 Years

I have a dark feeling that some thing very ugly will ensue before then.

23 thebronze  Wed, May 28, 2008 11:53:13am

re: #10 JohnnyReb

I give them about 15 years max myself.

If that...

24 JamesTKirk  Wed, May 28, 2008 11:53:18am

re: #20 Occasional Reader

Of course, they don't mention how little resistance the C of E has mustered up against this...

25 TalkinKamel  Wed, May 28, 2008 11:53:24am

I wonder why the British government is so eager to turn itself over to Islam?

(Does Prince Chuckles really think they'll make him Caliph?)

26 Killgore Trout  Wed, May 28, 2008 11:53:29am

I'm not sure what he's getting at here....

Charles Taylor’s new and classic work on the Secular Age charts the rise of the secular mindset and what he calls the ‘excarnation’ of Christianity as it is levered out of state policy and structures. Christianity is now regarded as bad news, the liberal elite’s attack developed in the 1960s took root in the educationalist empire, and to some extent even in areas of the church.

Today the Christian story is fading from public imagination, while Islam grows apace. There needs to be some fresh thinking in this area where the claims of Christ are sensitively explained. Our church leaders must develop ways of explaining this, as our feature on mission and evangelism this week demonstrates.

Is he blaming secularism for the decline of Christianity?

27 Bubblehead II  Wed, May 28, 2008 11:53:33am

re: #11 jcm

Old news, they already did.

Archbishop of Canterbury: Sharia in UK is 'Unavoidable'

28 coquimbojoe  Wed, May 28, 2008 11:53:45am

Hey, maybe they should just take my bacon sandwich right now...

29 rabidsquirrel  Wed, May 28, 2008 11:54:21am
If recent reports of trends in religious observance prove to be correct, then in some 30 years the mosque will be able to claim that, religiously speaking, the UK is an Islamic nation, and therefore needs a share in any religious establishment to reflect this.

Prince Charles, for one, welcomes his new Islamic overlords

/channeling Kent Brockman

30 republic  Wed, May 28, 2008 11:54:27am

re: #9 MandyManners

If they exist, they're probably scared witless to come forward.

If there are a billion Muslims worldwide, and nearly every voice says that it is only a small faction of "radicals", who have "highjacked their religion", and say that number of "radicals" is around a million, that would then leave about 999 million "moderate" Muslims.

Somethings not adding up here, and it isn't my math.

31 shibumi  Wed, May 28, 2008 11:54:43am

Correct me if I'm wrong (and I may very well be wrong) but isn't the Church of England the Anglican church? And wasn't it the Anglican church that proclaimed a while back that the most responsible thing a member of their church could do for the planet was NOT to reproduce? If this is indeed correct, then wouldn't the C of E be dead in England in the future regardless of Islam?

32 Slumbering Behemoth  Wed, May 28, 2008 11:54:46am
A Muslim Home Office adviser, for example, was responsible for Baroness Scotland’s aborting of the legislation against honour killings, arguing that informal methods would be better.

Murder is already illegal, just enforce the f*cking law. That's a no-brainer.

In the police we hear of girls under police protection having the addresses of their safe houses disclosed to their parents by Muslim officers who think they are doing their religious duty.

Oh, right. Silly me, what was I thinking?

That last bit is extremely troubling, as we have heard it reported many times before. How long before such reports become commonplace here in the States?

33 TalkinKamel  Wed, May 28, 2008 11:55:13am

re: #24 JamesTKirk

The C of E is dead. It can't muster up any resistance. It's an ex C of E. It's pining or the Fjords. (Baning church of England against wooden counter.) WAKE UP POLLY! WAKE UP, C OF E! WAKE UUUUUUUUUP!

I wish somebody would go in, steal C.S. Lewis' body, and spirit it away to the United States. Of course, he must be turning in that grave, to see the death of Christianity in England, and what England's become.

34 ointmentfly  Wed, May 28, 2008 11:55:28am

Don't forget the rest of Europe....

They should create a law that states the number of mosques in England may never exceed the number of churches in Saudi Arabia....

35 cszwed  Wed, May 28, 2008 11:55:30am

Lets give them the keys now!

36 coquimbojoe  Wed, May 28, 2008 11:55:50am

re: #29 rabidsquirrel

I will welcome them too, as long as there are chips orbiting my head.

37 unreconstructed rebel  Wed, May 28, 2008 11:55:57am

The only anglican communioners left with any stones are all in Africa. The US, Canada, England, Scotland & Wales have all been overrun by leftists polital pressure groups and the UN's MDGs have replaced the Gospel.

38 republic  Wed, May 28, 2008 11:56:02am

How many nukes does the U.K. have?

That's an interesting thought, although, rest assured, they're "moderate" Muslims.

/

39 TalkinKamel  Wed, May 28, 2008 11:56:02am

re: #31 shibumi

The C of E's dead, and Prince Charles is the Man Who Would be Caliph.

40 Agahnim  Wed, May 28, 2008 11:56:18am

That's not good.

With the trend of Europe moving left and away from Christianity, however, I'm not terribly surprised to see the vacuum is being filled.

41 TalkinKamel  Wed, May 28, 2008 11:56:31am

re: #38 republic

If this continues, we might find ourselves at war with an Islamic Britain some day. . .

42 Occasional Reader  Wed, May 28, 2008 11:56:41am

re: #24 JamesTKirk

Of course, they don't mention how little resistance the C of E has mustered up against this...

Fine, I'll take it. Am I the only one pleasantly surprised to read such a frank assessment of the situation in a C of E newsletter?

43 Ringo the Gringo  Wed, May 28, 2008 11:56:50am

The Leftists and Secularists of Great Britain are not going to be happy when their Gramcian plans leave them living, not in a socialist Utopia, but rather in a more religious and intolerant society than the one they have worked so hard to deconstruct.

44 JamesTKirk  Wed, May 28, 2008 11:56:54am

re: #34 ointmentfly

They should create a law that states the number of mosques in England may never exceed the number of churches in Saudi Arabia Mons Olympus...
45 Eowyn2  Wed, May 28, 2008 11:56:55am

re: #17 Abu Boo Boo

You'd think that murder is murder.

46 TalkinKamel  Wed, May 28, 2008 11:57:49am

re: #26 Killgore Trout

I think you do see what he's getting at, Killgore, you just don't want to.

47 kynna  Wed, May 28, 2008 11:57:51am

There are no moderate muslims. If they are moderate at all they are either in hiding or apostates. They cannot follow Islam and be moderate. The two things just don't go together. Every time a moderate voice is raised in muslim society it is squashed. Every moderate movement is taken over or killed.

It's been that way throughout history. Yes, there is evidence of rational, moderate Islam. There's also ample evidence of that rational, moderate Islam being snuffed out with impunity again and again and again.

48 JamesTKirk  Wed, May 28, 2008 11:57:51am

re: #42 Occasional Reader

Fine, I'll take it. Am I the only one pleasantly surprised to read such a frank assessment of the situation in a C of E newsletter?

It's a nice change, but worthless if it doesn't lead to action. Otherwise, it's just a eulogy.

49 republic  Wed, May 28, 2008 11:58:00am

re: #31 shibumi

Correct me if I'm wrong (and I may very well be wrong) but isn't the Church of England the Anglican church? And wasn't it the Anglican church that proclaimed a while back that the most responsible thing a member of their church could do for the planet was NOT to reproduce? If this is indeed correct, then wouldn't the C of E be dead in England in the future regardless of Islam?


Maybe if they'd actually read their Holy Bibles, they'd see there is nothing in the Bible about not reproducing, in fact, there is much Scripture to the contrary.

This is what happens when the left takes over anything and everything.

50 Slumbering Behemoth  Wed, May 28, 2008 11:58:04am

re: #11 jcm

Church of England surrenders to Stan.

I didn't read that as a letter of surrender, but more of a "Hey people, wake the f*ck up" kind of letter.

/water's getting hotter

51 wolfie  Wed, May 28, 2008 11:58:14am

re: #20 Occasional Reader

I would, too.
The author seems to me to be lamenting what is happening and is issuing a wake-up call to the Church and England as a whole.
The fact that it is appearing in an official publication of the usually moonbatty CoE is actually a good sign.

52 Cap'n DOC  Wed, May 28, 2008 11:58:33am

re: #1 Eowyn2

mohammedans are mohammedans. It makes no difference how much alcohol you consume if you're an alcoholic. Samey-samey.

53 SevoGuy  Wed, May 28, 2008 11:58:36am

Do not believe this article. Remember, the Europeans will never let it happen. The next islamic jihadi event occurring in England will be the beginning of the end of islam in the UK. Another point to bring up is that two world wars were started by the Europeans the last century.

We will see.....................

54 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  Wed, May 28, 2008 11:58:41am

re: #42 Occasional Reader

Fine, I'll take it. Am I the only one pleasantly surprised to read such a frank assessment of the situation in a C of E newsletter?

It depends on how they plan to address the issue.

55 Ringo the Gringo  Wed, May 28, 2008 11:58:47am

re: #26 Killgore Trout

I'm not sure what he's getting at here....

Is he blaming secularism for the decline of Christianity?

Of course, why wouldn't he?

56 ointmentfly  Wed, May 28, 2008 11:59:04am

re: #44 JamesTKirk

....Mars works for me...

57 maddogg  Wed, May 28, 2008 11:59:12am

England in 30, U.S. in 40. And won't we all be appalled?

58 Occasional Reader  Wed, May 28, 2008 11:59:24am

I forecast HUGE islamist seething over this piece, with a possibility of scattered riots.

59 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Wed, May 28, 2008 11:59:31am

re: #42 Occasional Reader

Fine, I'll take it. Am I the only one pleasantly surprised to read
such a frank assessment of the situation in a C of E newsletter?


I'm with you, OR. This is the same C o E that only last year seemed happy about the prospect of sharia law.

60 rabidsquirrel  Wed, May 28, 2008 11:59:32am

re: #42 Occasional Reader

No, I had the same take as you. It was actually refreshing to read an honest assessment of the situation. Apparently, even the CoE is able to pull its collective head out of its a**, albeit too infrequently to do much good.

61 reloadingisnotahobby  Wed, May 28, 2008 11:59:46am

I wonder how they feel now,being a "disarmed"...public!
Many knickers will be showing while they bend over in prayer
or to kiss they're a$$es goodbye

62 TalkinKamel  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:00:04pm

re: #3 joncelli

Henry's body is as nothing, compared to the gyrations C.S. Lewis' and J.R.R. Tolkien's bodies are performing at the moment!

(Okay, American Inklings! Pass the hat, hire some mercs and get the bodies of the two great writers smuggled out of England, before the Islamists take over!)

63 kwistie  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:00:12pm

re: #3 joncelli

As Henry VIII's body achieves high RPMs in his grave.


Actually his daughter, Elizabeth I, is probably the one turning in her grave. She's the one who really solidified the C of E.

Henry was just a Catholic wanting a divorce from his first wife...

64 jcm  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:00:19pm

re: #50 Slumbering Behemoth

I didn't read that as a letter of surrender, but more of a "Hey people, wake the f*ck up" kind of letter.

/water's getting hotter

Given previous statements by the Archbishop of the CE, I wouldn't read as a wake up call.

65 yma o hyd  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:00:28pm

Weep indeed - all those who think their only choice is between weeping and leaving.

Yes, its bad, and no amount of whitewashing will make it better.
This is the root cause:
"Christianity is now regarded as bad news, the liberal elite’s attack developed in the 1960s took root in the educationalist empire, ..."
(from the linked article) - but the point surely cannot be to just wail!

We've got to start turning things around - as has also been said in the article:
"There needs to be some fresh thinking in this area where the claims of Christ are sensitively explained. Our church leaders must develop ways of explaining this, as our feature on mission and evangelism this week demonstrates."

Just so - it may take a while, it certainly will not be easy, but giving up just because things look bleak at the moment?
No way!
Even work at grass root levels is helping.
(I loathe giver-upers! My motto is: 'Look for the terrier inside yourself ...'!)

66 TalkinKamel  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:00:34pm

re: #48 JamesTKirk

And that's the problem; the C of E just doesn't seem to have to cojones to take action any more.

67 spacejesus  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:00:44pm

what a load of malarkey.

they're just trying to boost church attendance.

68 Occasional Reader  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:00:57pm

Hell, this piece will probably be Banned in Canada, if Mark Steyn's experience is any indication.

69 hydrocarbon hank  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:01:12pm

...maybe sooner if Louie can get the mothership running again.

70 Eowyn2  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:01:16pm

re: #32 Slumbering Behemoth

Oh, right. Silly me, what was I thinking?

That last bit is extremely troubling, as we have heard it reported many times before. How long before such reports become commonplace here in the States?

I get visions of entire families hiding in Priest holes. Roundheads burning churches...........

71 syndicate  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:01:26pm

Just wait until the destruction of all of the historic churches and abbeys starts to take place. It will make the talibans destruction of the buddahs in Afghanistan look like childs play.

I suspect that Westminister will be the first to come down and the remains buried under the floors dragged out and burned in the streets.

72 nyc redneck  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:01:45pm

i don't believe it's going to happen. i'm not giving up yet.

73 yma o hyd  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:02:06pm

re: #24 JamesTKirk

The official one, in the form of some prominent Bishops - but the CofE does not consist of one or two bishops alone, ya know!

74 Slumbering Behemoth  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:02:24pm

re: #64 jcm

It did seem more like a warning/alarm call to me, but maybe not. At times I can be overly optimistic.

75 unreconstructed rebel  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:02:46pm

re: #62 TalkinKamel

Problem is the american version (The Episcopal Church or The Episcopal Organization, depending on your point of view) is funding the rot. Trinity Wall Street is pouring dead men's money into the damnest ideas.

76 Shr_Nfr  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:02:56pm

Given the asshat they have for the Archbishop of Canterbury, I'm hardly surprised.

77 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:03:00pm

re: #62 TalkinKamel

Henry's body is as nothing, compared to the gyrations C.S. Lewis' and J.R.R. Tolkien's bodies are performing at the moment!

(Okay,
American Inklings! Pass the hat, hire some mercs and get the bodies of
the two great writers smuggled out of England, before the Islamists
take over!)

I have an idea for a comic book about the not-too-distant islamic future. The opening panels are of the last British soldiers disinterring Churchill & smuggling his coffin & the Crown Jewels away to America in a C-130.

78 wolfie  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:03:02pm

re: #54 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

It depends on how they plan to address the issue.

Exactly.

To be sure, you have to admit there's a problem before you can take steps to address it, so we can glad they're at least doing that.

But as you say, what now?

79 jemima  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:03:08pm

We have always been at war with Englandistan

80 Roger  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:03:15pm

Look on the bright side; the lousy Christians will be pushed back and underground

81 Charles  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:03:18pm

re: #42 Occasional Reader

Fine, I'll take it. Am I the only one pleasantly surprised to read such a frank assessment of the situation in a C of E newsletter?

No, I'm a bit surprised too, that they actually mention some serious problems. It's not like them.

But it's a pretty defeatist editorial, and it's disturbing to see even the normally very leftist, oblivious C of E thinking this way.

82 jcbunga  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:03:26pm

Monthy Python redo:

Mullah Ahmed approaches the peasants working in the fields: "I am your Mullah!"

Peasant: "I didn't vote for ya..."

"Bloody Dhimmi's..."

83 stuiec  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:03:33pm

The Brits may not do much to defend their right to a Church of England...

... but wait until the new Muslim rulers try to take away their lager, ale and whisky!

84 republic  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:03:42pm

re: #26 Killgore Trout

I'm not sure what he's getting at here....

Is he blaming secularism for the decline of Christianity?

Secularism has been around since the beginning of mankind, however, leftism has only been around for about 60 years.

Christianity grew just fine, while secularism has been around, however, since the power and voice of leftism has been around, it has dramatically been under attack.

Even the power of the Romans, who ruled the world, couldn't stop Christianity, regardless of how many Christians they slaughtered.

I have no problems with seculars, atheists, etc, but I despise leftists, regardless of what they claim to be.

85 shibumi  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:03:45pm

re: #43 Ringo the Gringo

The Leftists and Secularists of Great Britain are not going to be happy when their Gramcian plans leave them living, not in a socialist Utopia, but rather in a more religious and intolerant society than the one they have worked so hard to deconstruct.

I've always found liberals to be a mass of contradictions, and suspect that there's a lot of self hatred going on inside of them. Consequently, they may be engaging, as a group, in an exercise that indeed will put them collectively in a position (living under Islam) that proves to them how worthless they are and indeed punishes them.

/hopefully making sense, have sort of a headache, should be able to think of the right psycho babble words, but can't at the moment.

86 nyc redneck  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:04:06pm

re: #65 yma o hyd

GMTA,
(moslems in britain are only 2.8% of the population. there's still time.)

87 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:04:24pm
88 JamesTKirk  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:04:45pm

re: #81 Charles

But it's a pretty defeatist editorial, and it's disturbing to see even the normally very leftist, oblivious C of E thinking this way.

It's long on grievances and short on solutions. "Oh woe is me" hardly inspires hope.

89 Shr_Nfr  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:05:13pm

re: #63 kwistie

Excuse me, the current queen is Elizabeth 1 if you are from Scotland.

90 JamesTKirk  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:05:16pm

re: #83 stuiec

The Brits may not do much to defend their right to a Church of England...

... but wait until the new Muslim rulers try to take away their lager, ale and whisky!

The muslim rulers will be the ones with guns.

91 tradewind  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:05:22pm

re: #51 wolfie

Coincdentally, I listened to a podcast of sermons from an Episcopal Church that I get weekly and the priest actually told the congregation present (Sun before Memorial Day) how proud they were to have _____ and ______ (members of various active duty military services, and some in training) in the pews and offered a prayer of thanksgiving for their service. Their IS hope for the faith I grew up in after all, and not just in my southern conservative parish.
It was so great to hear when usually everything from the ECUS is like listening to democrat talking points from the People's Republic of Berkeley.

92 Who Watches the Watchmen?  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:05:57pm

re: #54 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

It depends on how they plan to address the issue.

I'm thinking it's raising a white flag, packing up the Host, moving out of the rectory, and leaving the keys under the doormat for the next occupant.

93 republic  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:06:12pm

re: #43 Ringo the Gringo

The Leftists and Secularists of Great Britain are not going to be happy when their Gramcian plans leave them living, not in a socialist Utopia, but rather in a more religious and intolerant society than the one they have worked so hard to deconstruct.

You are spot on!

"Be careful for what you wish for"

But the leftists are so arrogant, they think that "this time", things will be different.

It would actually be interesting to watch.

94 ointmentfly  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:06:28pm

re: #66 TalkinKamel

re: #84 republic


..... and Islam always seems to fill the void....

95 JamesTKirk  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:06:51pm

re: #93 republic

It would actually be interesting to watch.

From a safe distance.

Like Mons Olympus.

/my summer home

96 shibumi  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:06:53pm

re: #53 SevoGuy

Another point to bring up is that two world wars were started by the Europeans the last century.

Although the last two world wars were started in Europe, they were WON by Americans.

Europe doesn't want to fight. When a culture will not fight for it's existence, it is impotent. That's why it's so easy for Islam to make incursions.

And if there is a war, look to Europe to come crying to the U.S. to get them out of it.

97 Ojoe  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:07:11pm

These all hang in the balance.

Canterbury Cathedral

Durham Cathedral

Salisbury Cathedral

And here is the website of the Queen of England. One of her titles is "Defender of the Faith" I believe a letter to her asking her to intervene in this suicidal madness is in order. You can find the address on the website. I wrote her a while ago about the Bishop of Canterbury, and her reply said she does not interfere in the day-to-day running of the Church of England but perhaps she will reconsider.


British Monarchy Website

98 Slumbering Behemoth  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:07:18pm

re: #70 Eowyn2

No hiding in priest holes for me. I'm not a soldier, nor a super-hero, nor a bad-ass, but I am an American. That's gotta count for something. Let the children fill the bunkers, I'll be on the wall.

99 Eowyn2  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:07:37pm

re: #25 TalkinKamel

I wonder why the British government is so eager to turn itself over to Islam?

(Does Prince Chuckles really think they'll make him Caliph?)


No, he figures his mom will not let loose the reins until he's off boating with Camilla.

100 reine.de.tout  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:07:40pm

re: #26 Killgore Trout

I'm not sure what he's getting at here....


Is he blaming secularism for the decline of Christianity?

I believe he is, and I think the argument has some merit. The churches themselves are at fault, also, including my own, the Catholic Church. As they give in to "secularism", in an attempt to "modernize", they lose the strength of the faith that people believe in, replacing it with moral relativism.

If I recall correctly, Christian churches are doing best in those countries that have not yet given in to "secularization".

I'm not saying that churches should not modernize. I'm just saying I think they've gone about it the wrong way.

101 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:08:28pm

It certainly lacks a "Stand, Men of the West" quality.

Hell, I'd even take a "I'm mad as hell" speach.

This seems like a "yup, we're royally fucked now, more tea?" kind of article

102 TalkinKamel  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:08:30pm

re: #65 yma o hyd

But, despite my doubts, I'm hoping, somehow, the C of E can turn things around.

However---and this is a biggie, and it's one of the things that makes me fear for Europe in general---if it does turn things around, it's going to have to change. It's going to have to drop all the leftist/secularist thinking, and become a new, tough, evangelical, C of E. Heck, it might have to study up on American Protestant denominations, and---dare I say it?----the Catholic Church, in order to better evangelize and educate.

And this is the real problem. I believe the C of E could prevail. I believe Europe can prevail. But, in both cases, in order to do so, they'll have to drop their labour party/statist/ soft Marxist/ anti-Israel, anti-American worldview; they'll have to come up with new programs and rediscover a love for their own history, a respect for rule of law and a love for Judeo/Christian heritage. The Church of England: liberal, weak-kneed, accomodating, hoping for salvation from Liberal Moslems, can't win. A rejuvinated Church of England just might. It's the rejuvanation that's gonna be the hard part.

103 Ward Cleaver  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:09:12pm

Thirty?!? I give them 15, max.

104 Eowyn2  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:09:38pm

re: #71 syndicate

Just wait until the destruction of all of the historic churches and abbeys starts to take place. It will make the talibans destruction of the buddahs in Afghanistan look like childs play.

I suspect that Westminister will be the first to come down and the remains buried under the floors dragged out and burned in the streets.

silly, it will be proven with Muslim Science and Muslim History that Westminster is really the 408th most holy Muslim site and is really a mosque. We can tell by the early mosque designs in Spain that Westminster was built along the same lines then was over-run by infidels and apostates.

105 Killgore Trout  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:09:42pm

re: #37 unreconstructed rebel

The only anglican communioners left with any stones are all in Africa.

This article is just one in a series over the past few weeks. See:Church is not doing enough to convert UK Muslims, says bishop
They're starting to wake up. However I think it's important for them to help save the UK, The Catholic churrch should be doing the same thing in the rest of Europe but I think it's important that they don't start pushing back against secularism. They have a tendency to blame secular society for the failings of Christianity.

106 republic  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:09:44pm

re: #98 Slumbering Behemoth

No hiding in priest holes for me. I'm not a soldier, nor a super-hero, nor a bad-ass, but I am an American. That's gotta count for something. Let the children fill the bunkers, I'll be on the wall.

Kudos!

I'll be right with ya, although I will not under any circumstances end up against any wall.

107 Slumbering Behemoth  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:10:30pm

re: #83 stuiec

... but wait until the new Muslim rulers try to take away their lager, ale and whisky!

That may cause some tremors, but just wait until they try to take away their football soccer. The very foundations of the earth will quake.

108 Pyrocles  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:10:31pm

Exactly. Leftists are petrified of the "Religious Right", and suck up to the Islamists. They have no idea what they're doing... When Islamists outnumber the dreaded "Religious Right", the Left will have a worse problem than they ever imagined.

re: #43 Ringo the Gringo

The Leftists and Secularists of Great Britain are not going to be happy when their Gramcian plans leave them living, not in a socialist Utopia, but rather in a more religious and intolerant society than the one they have worked so hard to deconstruct.

109 TalkinKamel  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:10:31pm

re: #85 shibumi

Frankly, I think it's just plain old justice if Liberals end up living in the very hell they've got planned for the rest of us.

110 Eowyn2  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:10:57pm

re: #98 Slumbering Behemoth

No hiding in priest holes for me. I'm not a soldier, nor a super-hero, nor a bad-ass, but I am an American. That's gotta count for something. Let the children fill the bunkers, I'll be on the wall.

Is there room for a gun totin gramma beside you.

No grand daughter of mine will be forced to wear a burka!

111 Occasional Reader  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:11:07pm

re: #96 shibumi

Although the last two world wars were started in Europe, they were WON by Americans.

Proud as I am of America's heritage, that statement is highly debatable, at best.

US forces arguably tipped the balance in WWI (really the THREAT of the forces as much as the reality of them, prompting the costly Ludendorff Spring Offensive). In WWII in Europe, the bulk of the German forces were destroyed by the Red Army.

112 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:11:08pm
113 yma o hyd  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:11:19pm

re: #33 TalkinKamel

Very funny, glad you like the Pythons!

As for the CofE - oh man, ye want me to name bishops who are not 'giving in', who are not 'dead'? Heard of Dr John Sentamu, didya? Archbishop of York? Bishp Nazir-Ali, Bishp of Rochester, has made it onto the Lizard pages, iirc. Some of you who are into theology may have heard (or even met, as he comes often to the USA) of Bishop Tom wright, Bishop of Durham - all no dhimmis, not dead wood, and highly unlikely to fall udner the spell of 'moderate' muslims.

They need the support of all those who sit on their fat arses, watch the telly and bemoan their bad fate, instead of getting up and effing well doing something themselves.

114 TalkinKamel  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:11:25pm

re: #105 Killgore Trout

Killgore, secular, leftist, labour party Britain IS to blame for a lot of the C of E's---and England's---problems.

115 redstateredneck  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:11:38pm

From another article:

David Voas, a professor of population studies at the Institute for Social Change at the University of Manchester, said: “The difficulty is in retaining the children who have churchgoing parents. So long as churchgoing is something that gets you laughed at, so long as there is a social stigma attached to being a churchgoing young person, it will be difficult to reverse the trend.” He said that young Muslims operated in a different environment. “Being religious is a way that you show you are different, that you are proud of your heritage. One of the ways young Muslims assert their identity is by being more observant than their parents.”
116 David Simon  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:11:44pm

re: #42 Occasional Reader

Fine, I'll take it. Am I the only one pleasantly surprised to read such a frank assessment of the situation in a C of E newsletter?

Nope. The first step toward solving a problem is admitting that you have one.

117 shibumi  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:12:12pm

re: #109 TalkinKamel

Frankly, I think it's just plain old justice if Liberals end up living in the very hell they've got planned for the rest of us.

In a perfect world, they'll be living in the Islamic hell, while the rest of us sip drinks by the pool, reading literature banned by Islam.

118 MandyManners  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:12:39pm

re: #30 republic

If there are a billion Muslims worldwide, and nearly every voice says that it is only a small faction of "radicals", who have "highjacked their religion", and say that number of "radicals" is around a million, that would then leave about 999 million "moderate" Muslims.

Somethings not adding up here, and it isn't my math.

You mean, someone's been lying to us? Neverrrrrrrrrrrr.

119 Occasional Reader  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:12:50pm

re: #111 Occasional Reader

US forces arguably tipped the balance in WWI

I meant to add: ... but constituted a relatively small component of the total Allied forces.

120 jcm  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:13:01pm

re: #74 Slumbering Behemoth

It did seem more like a warning/alarm call to me, but maybe not. At times I can be overly optimistic.

Hopefully the people will see it as such.

The offical tone of the C of E has been very dhimmified.

121 sparrowlake  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:13:05pm

The logical outcome of the Church of England's auto-obituary is that it will fall to the godless hordes to save the nation.

122 TalkinKamel  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:13:07pm

re: #113 yma o hyd

Ooooh yes, I love the Pythons!

I do have hope for the C of E. . . if it can transform, rediscover itself and start preaching the Gospel once more. And I very much admire Bishop Nazir.

123 yma o hyd  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:13:31pm

re: #37 unreconstructed rebel

Some have - but certainly not the Archbishop of Wales, my dear compatriot!

124 rabidsquirrel  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:13:34pm

re: #88 JamesTKirk

It's long on grievances and short on solutions. "Oh woe is me" hardly inspires hope.

True, but admitting you have a problem is the first step. Of course, if you fail to take steps to address the problems, it's all a moot point.

125 TalkinKamel  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:13:38pm

re: #117 shibumi

Heh, heh. .. . Yes, that's a scenario I'd like very much!

126 Eowyn2  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:14:45pm

re: #117 shibumi

In a perfect world, they'll be living in the Islamic hell, while the rest of us sip drinks by the pool, reading literature banned by Islam.

like the US Constitution.

127 Killgore Trout  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:14:46pm

re: #55 Ringo the Gringo

I can see how some people could blame secularism for the decline of Christianity but I don't think that's the case. Secular society is very important and is the cornerstone of modern Western culture. Religion is a service industry, I suspect the decline of Christianity in Europe is because of the churches.

128 doppelganglander  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:14:49pm

re: #116 David Simon

I'm not sure they believe this is a problem to be solved, so much as a situation to be accepted. That's what's so scary.

129 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:15:00pm

re: #111 Occasional Reader

Proud as I am of America's heritage, that statement is highly debatable, at best.

US
forces arguably tipped the balance in WWI (really the THREAT of the
forces as much as the reality of them, prompting the costly Ludendorff Spring Offensive). In WWII in Europe, the bulk of the German forces were destroyed by the Red Army.


Who liberated Auschitz with Obama's uncle.

130 TalkinKamel  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:15:17pm

re: #121 sparrowlake

Unless, the godless hordes convert to Islam. Or decide that they might as well just go along, and hope all their welfare state benfits aren't cut. Or dither around helplessly, because they don't want to submit to Islam, but they can't bear the thought of allying themselves with religious people, either. . .

131 republic  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:15:27pm

re: #100 reine.de.tout

I believe he is, and I think the argument has some merit. The churches themselves are at fault, also, including my own, the Catholic Church. As they give in to "secularism", in an attempt to "modernize", they lose the strength of the faith that people believe in, replacing it with moral relativism.

If I recall correctly, Christian churches are doing best in those countries that have not yet given in to "secularization".

I'm not saying that churches should not modernize. I'm just saying I think they've gone about it the wrong way.

The Apostles of Christ, with the lone exception of John, were all either crucified, beheaded, or stoned for their beliefs and preachings.

The Church grew by leaps and bounds, in the face of being slaughtered for their beliefs, and in the face of every form of trying to change the Message of the Gospel.

Nowadays, Christians only have to defend their Christianity from the ACLU, the SCOTUS, thousands of Federal activist leftist judges, the Congress, any Dem POTUS, all of Islam, and Killgore Trout, you'd think that Christianity should prevail.

The times are a changing, as Scripture has Perfectly revealed.

132 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:15:43pm

re: #117 shibumi

In a perfect world, they'll be living in the Islamic hell, while the rest of us sip drinks by the pool, reading literature banned by Islam.

Living well is the best revenge.

133 Ringo the Gringo  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:15:58pm

A friend of mine in New Zealand tells me that Brits are immigrating down there in such numbers that the Kiwis are worried that in 30 years New Zealand will be British!

134 Ojoe  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:16:20pm

Those trying to take over the West will come up against a hard core and they will lose. We see now only the fluff around the outside.

135 Slumbering Behemoth  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:16:23pm

re: #106 republic

I'll be right with ya, although I will not under any circumstances end up against any wall.

On the wall, brother, not against it. The view is much better up there.

If it's clear that I've been mortally wounded, push me forward so that I might land on the enemy.

/one. last. strike.

136 Eowyn2  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:16:38pm

re: #119 Occasional Reader


It wasnt so much the man power. Although WWII did not end until the bombin at Hiroshima and Nagasaki; but the oil, foodstuffs, equipment.

137 shibumi  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:16:40pm

re: #111 Occasional Reader

Proud as I am of America's heritage, that statement is highly debatable, at best.

US forces arguably tipped the balance in WWI (really the THREAT of the forces as much as the reality of them, prompting the costly Ludendorff Spring Offensive). In WWII in Europe, the bulk of the German forces were destroyed by the Red Army.


Then let me revise.

No nation from Western Europe would have been victorious in WWII.

Is that more historically accurate?

It does still prove my original point that most of Western Europe is incapable of defending itself.

138 jcm  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:16:41pm

re: #119 Occasional Reader

I meant to add: ... but constituted a relatively small component of the total Allied forces.

Have you read VDH, Carnage and Culture? He get's into the reasons behind the effectiveness of our and western armies.

139 MandyManners  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:17:01pm

re: #72 nyc redneck

i don't believe it's going to happen. i'm not giving up yet.

A nation which produced Churchill did not lose his courage in one generation.

Never give in, never give in, never, never, never, never-in nothing, great or small, large or petty - never give in except to convictions of honour and good sense. Never yield to force; never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy.

140 republic  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:17:04pm

re: #96 shibumi

Although the last two world wars were started in Europe, they were WON by Americans.

Europe doesn't want to fight. When a culture will not fight for it's existence, it is impotent. That's why it's so easy for Islam to make incursions.

And if there is a war, look to Europe to come crying to the U.S. to get them out of it.

If it's a Democrat President and a Dem controlled Congress, this time, they'll be s@#t out of luck.

141 Occasional Reader  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:17:21pm

re: #129 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

Who liberated Auschitz with Obama's uncle.

Indeed. He then went on to liberate Greece. (He actually lived in Attica for six months.)

142 Killgore Trout  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:17:30pm

re: #131 republic

Heh.
;)

143 unreconstructed rebel  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:18:04pm

re: #105 Killgore Trout

KT

I am told that the man you cite, Bishop Michael Nazir-Ali, should have been nominated ABC, but the gay lobby pitched a fit & Tony Blair selected Rowan Williams instead.

I do note that the Queen's Peculiar is not as screwy as the rest of CoE, but I am afraid the old girl was asleep at the switch on this one.

144 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:18:10pm

re: #141 Occasional Reader

Indeed. He then went on to liberate Greece. (He actually lived in Attica for six months.)

Attic Black?
/

145 Shr_Nfr  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:18:56pm

Well, they certainly got this one spot on: "This progress has been enthusiastically assisted by this government in particular with its hard-line multi-cultural dogma and willingness to concede to virtually every demand made by Muslims. " Perhaps if we had a few more chaps like Nazir-Ali [Link: www.telegraph.co.uk...] and a few less bungholes like Gordon Brown and Tony Blair, this might actually get reversed a bit.

146 wolfie  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:19:09pm

re: #130 TalkinKamel

Unless, the godless hordes convert to Islam. Or decide that they might as well just go along, and hope all their welfare state benfits aren't cut. Or dither around helplessly, because they don't want to submit to Islam, but they can't bear the thought of allying themselves with religious people, either. . .

Or turn to fascism,Marxism,etc......secular ideologies that promise redemption and preach violence.

147 ointmentfly  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:19:30pm

re: #118 MandyManners

It is all part of the duplicity seen in just about all islamic groups. Hamas has a "political" wing and a "militant" wing. Each under the same flag, but neither controls the other.... If the majority of muslims are "moderate" then they surely can exert control on the radicals if England and the U.S. sanction all muslims somehow, right?

148 abu lahab  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:19:33pm

After reading the above article; I suggest reading this one below to help release some steam!
Good for the Aussies!
Weeping!

149 Occasional Reader  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:19:41pm

re: #144 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

Attic Black?
/

Or maybe he did time in Attica... the point is, vote Obama, you racist.

150 David Simon  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:19:52pm

re: #128 doppelganglander

I'm not sure they believe this is a problem to be solved, so much as a situation to be accepted. That's what's so scary.

You could be right, but that's not how it sounds to me. It sounds like they're as disgusted as we are. They're merely stating the obvious: if their countrymen don't wake the hell up, it's over.

151 republic  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:20:03pm

re: #135 Slumbering Behemoth

On the wall, brother, not against it. The view is much better up there.

If it's clear that I've been mortally wounded, push me forward so that I might land on the enemy.

/one. last. strike.

Here here!

I'd gladly land on the enemy, without a scratch on me.

one. last. strike

152 Slumbering Behemoth  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:20:18pm

re: #110 Eowyn2

Is there room for a gun totin gramma beside you.

No grand daughter of mine will be forced to wear a burka!

Absolutely! There is no gender-bias, if you're willing to point and click then I say have at them.

153 unreconstructed rebel  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:20:58pm

re: #123 yma o hyd

I have received rumors that he has been turned too. If you have evidence to the contrary, I would be greatful.

154 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:21:04pm

It could be argued that WWII was in part started by the Japanese, with the seizure of Manchuria, then the invasion of the rest of China.

155 Eowyn2  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:21:18pm

re: #129 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

That's all been cleared up. It was Obama's "Uncle Joe" who liberated Auschwitz.

Uncle Joe then went on to purge all cowards of the red army who were tired enough, hurt enough or surrounded enough to be captured by the German Army and lived through the internment.

156 Killgore Trout  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:21:45pm

re: #143 unreconstructed rebel

I am told that the man you cite, Bishop Michael Nazir-Ali, should have been nominated ABC, but the gay lobby pitched a fit & Tony Blair selected Rowan Williams instead.

Well,I think that proves my point. Increase secularism and get the government out of the church's affairs. It would be a great start. They still have to overcome the problem of getting butts in the pews on Sunday. If they provide the correct service people will show up but churches all across Europe are going empty.

157 markx  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:22:00pm

re: #6 markie

re: #6 markie

It's 1933 all over again!

No, actually, this time it's worst.

This time it's internal and no one there seems to care enough to fight.

158 wolfie  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:22:07pm

re: #139 MandyManners

It's been more than one generation. IIRC, a recent survey found that over 60% of Brits under 30 could not even identify Winston Churchill, much less know what he said.

159 yma o hyd  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:22:37pm

re: #97 Ojoe

What gives you the idea that Durham Cathedral is hanging in the balance?
We know about the archbishop of Canterbury - and tbh i don't know about the Bishop of salisbury - but by heck, I do know the Bisho of Durham, and he's not letting his cathedral and diocese go by default, certainly not to the peddlers of that false religion!

(If I misunderstood you - sorry - am mightily enraged!)

160 markx  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:23:19pm

re: #22 Ringo the Gringo

I have a dark feeling that some thing very ugly will ensue before then.


Yeah, I wouldn't bet on 30 years. I'm thinking about 10.

161 Slumbering Behemoth  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:23:23pm

re: #120 jcm

Hopefully the people will see it as such.

The offical tone of the C of E has been very dhimmified.

Ditto on both points. I just hate to see this happening to a friend and ally of the U.S., I want to hold out hope for them.

162 WriterMom  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:23:43pm

re: #11 jcm

I see it as a (mild) call to action.

163 Widow'smight  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:24:07pm

re: #131 republic

We Christians don't need to defend our faith, we need to show by example the richness of it.

164 jcbunga  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:24:39pm

re: #158 wolfie

It's been more than one generation. IIRC, a recent survey found that over 60% of Brits under 30 could not even identify Winston Churchill, much less know what he said.

Sad, if true.

"An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last."
--Winston Churchill

165 sparrowlake  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:24:42pm

Methinks they doth bendeth and spreadeth their nethers.

166 WriterMom  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:24:57pm

re: #26 Killgore Trout

I think he means that there is a trend that as people become more secular, they have fewer children.

167 cygnus  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:25:23pm

re: #110 Eowyn2

Is there room for a gun totin gramma beside you.

No grand daughter of mine will be forced to wear a burka!

Stand, men (and women) of the West!

/Aragorn

168 WriterMom  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:25:33pm

re: #20 Occasional Reader

Agree with you.

169 Occasional Reader  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:25:55pm

re: #152 Slumbering Behemoth

There is no gender-bias, if you're willing to point and click

Guns are equalizers in more ways than one. Annie Oakley was, without question, the best shooter in Buffalo Bill's Wild West Show.

170 republic  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:26:11pm

re: #163 Widow'smight

We Christians don't need to defend our faith, we need to show by example the richness of it.

I agree.

Although it doesn't hurt to support groups who oppose the ACLU and the Democrats(leftists).

171 Eowyn2  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:26:36pm

re: #167 cygnus

begone foul dwimmerlake, put not a burka between me and my kin.

172 jcm  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:26:37pm

re: #163 Widow'smight

We Christians don't need to defend our faith, we need to show by example the richness of it.

Amen, Amen and Amen.
Did I say AMEN!

173 TalkinKamel  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:26:43pm

re: #156 Killgore Trout

Killgore, it sounds like there's too much secularism in the church already. I agree with you about getting the government out of the church. . . but what do you mean by the "correct" service? What, other than preaching the gospel, and celebrating the eucharist, is the "correct" service of the C of E? Are you saying they need to jazz things up with guitar masses, or masses featuring giant puppets?

174 anotherindyfilmguy  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:26:46pm

So I guess it would be to much to see the CoE actually go out and try to convert people from islam to the CoE or mebbe try to do things that encourage the growth of the church through not being a bastion of liberal self loathing and cultural suicide then?
Just asking...

175 MacGregor  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:27:01pm

So the injection of secularism into the church by the left has created a spiritual vacuum, easily filled by an aggressive religion?

176 Slumbering Behemoth  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:27:02pm

re: #167 cygnus

Hold your ground!

177 yma o hyd  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:27:04pm

re: #25 TalkinKamel

I wonder why the British government is so eager to turn itself over to Islam?

(Does Prince Chuckles really think they'll make him Caliph?)

re: #99 Eowyn2

No, he figures his mom will not let loose the reins until he's off boating with Camilla.

Aww - lokit here, the British Government, which for 11 years ahs been the worst moonbatty leftist government ever, under NuLab, Tony bnlair and Gordon Brown, that is the lot which says what is going to happen, which makes the laws etc etc etc.

The Queen, and should she die, Prnice Charlse, ahve nothing whatsoever to do with the governing of this country.
Its called a 'Constitutional Monarchy', where Queen and King are basically figureheads.
They do not govern!

178 cygnus  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:27:08pm

re: #126 Eowyn2

like the US Constitution.

And the Bible.

179 TalkinKamel  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:27:20pm

re: #166 WriterMom

Yes, that's true; more secularism seems to equal fewer kids.

180 SagamoreGal  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:27:27pm

P.D. James' portent of a godless, childless British society in "Children of Men" always runs through my mind when I read articles such as this.

181 Shr_Nfr  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:27:38pm

If you are trying to get into New Zealand these days there are only a few ways for you to do it: [Link: www.immigration.govt.nz...] Basically, you either have to be one of the selected minorities, have a skill that they need, or bring a lot of cash to start a business. However fwiw, the doctor who is my next door neighbor was Canadian born and trained, spent some time in NZ and then decided that the best place was the states.

182 Occasional Reader  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:28:02pm

re: #173 TalkinKamel

Are you saying they need to jazz things up with guitar masses

Ick, guitar mass, no. (Bad flashback here.) Now, Jazz Mass, on the other hand...

183 ishabibble  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:28:03pm

re: #18 republic

I sure am glad that the U.S. Constitution gaurentees that there will never be a state run religion in the USA.

/sarc

"OK class, today, and for the next several months, we are going to study Islam, you will all take a Muslim name, and we will study how Islam is a religion of peace."

No sarc!

It's already happened here:

[Link: www.sfgate.com...]
f=/c/a/2002/09/08/IN87674.DTL

And here:

[Link: www.jihadwatch.org...]

184 tappin52  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:28:25pm

re: #110 Eowyn2

You may have to help me up onto the wall, but I'll be there with you!

185 nyc redneck  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:28:27pm

i think the decay can be reversed in britain. they need to regain a sense of pride in themselves.
i think some are awakening. they did oust red ken. that could become a trend.
the hard working blokes who do the real work and pay taxes will fight and that will inspire others. eventually push will come to shove. there will be a clash. i can't see the brits sleeping walking to the very end of their civilization.

186 TalkinKamel  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:28:49pm

re: #177 yma o hyd

Well, neither Chuckles nor his mom govern now. . .

But I wonder. Chuckles, like most moonbats, seems to want power over others. Maybe he thinks he's more likely to get it as a champion of Islam, rather than as a figurehead monarch. . .

187 markx  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:29:07pm

re: #98 Slumbering Behemoth

No hiding in priest holes for me. I'm not a soldier, nor a super-hero, nor a bad-ass, but I am an American. That's gotta count for something. Let the children fill the bunkers, I'll be on the wall.

Ditto.

And my children and grandchildren will be re-loading for me.

188 TalkinKamel  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:29:26pm

re: #185 nyc redneck

Exactly!

189 landline  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:29:26pm

RE: #43 Ringo the Gringo 5/28/08 11:56:50 am reply quote 1
The Leftists and Secularists of Great Britain are not going to be happy when their Gramcian plans leave them living, not in a socialist Utopia, but rather in a more religious and intolerant society than the one they have worked so hard to deconstruct.

I honestly don't believe that extreme leftists in the UK care one way or the other for their personal welfare. They are primarily nihilists and will be delighted to see a Western European Capitalist society fail -thus fulfilling the prophecy of Uncle Karl. To a great extent, extreme leftists are simply self-hating fools.

190 Shr_Nfr  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:29:48pm

re: #177 yma o hyd

It would be an interesting sight to see Charles and Camilla both being stoned to death for adultery.

191 WriterMom  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:29:58pm

re: #173 TalkinKamel

Oooh yes...."Service With A Smile", or a MIME! Or modern expressive dancing and performance art...the possibilities are endless!

192 alegrias  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:30:07pm

I'm getting nostalgic for Popes & Holy Roman Emperors who sent military armies & Conquistadors to battle hordes.

Defending from those who tried to conquer by the sword, you know.

193 mama winger  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:30:12pm

The Church of England is not synonymous with Christianity. There are other, growing, churches in England besides the state church. Pentecostal churches are gaining in attendance. People will go to wherever the actual Gospel is preached and lived out. Churches that have substituted the leftist agenda for Christianity will be found wanting. Marxism always leads to failure, whatever the setting.

Onward Christian soldiers, marching as to war.

194 TalkinKamel  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:30:14pm

re: #180 SagamoreGal

James was prophetic.

195 Slumbering Behemoth  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:30:44pm

re: #170 republic

Although it doesn't hurt to support groups who oppose the ACLU and the Democrats(leftists).

They (ACLU, the Progsoc) threaten more than just your faith, they are a threat to everything this country stands for.

196 Silhouette  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:30:47pm

That they will wake up is without question. The only question is will it be in time.

I go back and forth between optimism and pessimism on this one.

197 republic  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:30:51pm

re: #183 ishabibble

It's already happened here:

[Link: www.sfgate.com...]
f=/c/a/2002/09/08/IN87674.DTL

And here:

[Link: www.jihadwatch.org...]

Oh, I'm well aware.

It's interesting that the left/ACLU never confront this, in fact, they defend it.

198 MandyManners  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:30:57pm

re: #147 ointmentfly

It is all part of the duplicity seen in just about all islamic groups. Hamas has a "political" wing and a "militant" wing. Each under the same flag, but neither controls the other.... If the majority of muslims are "moderate" then they surely can exert control on the radicals if England and the U.S. sanction all muslims somehow, right?

You'd think that Britain's experience with Siin Fein would tip them off.

199 WriterMom  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:31:49pm

re: #185 nyc redneck

I agree with you that kicking Red Ken's butt out of office was a definite sign of pushback. Additionally, the Brits are being CRUSHED with 'green' taxes on everything-they are not happy about that either.

200 MandyManners  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:32:07pm

re: #158 wolfie

It's been more than one generation. IIRC, a recent survey found that over 60% of Brits under 30 could not even identify Winston Churchill, much less know what he said.

I'm spreaking of guts, not knowledge of history.

201 coquimbojoe  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:32:12pm

re: #198 MandyManners

You'd think that Britain's experience with Siin Fein would tip them off.

You would think, but then you'd be wrong.....

202 Killgore Trout  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:32:23pm

re: #173 TalkinKamel

but what do you mean by the "correct" service?


I don't have anything specific in mind. The church needs to provide people with a modern and relevant form of spirituality. If they don't provide it people won't show up. I don't think it's about gimmicks and puppet shows.

203 Occasional Reader  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:32:28pm

re: #191 WriterMom

Oooh yes...."Service With A Smile", or a MIME! Or modern expressive dancing and performance art...the possibilities are endless!

I've already floated my Heavy Metal Mass idea on these pages.

(to the tune of "Iron Man")

Heavy cross of wood
separates sinners from the good
Repenting as fast as they can
Crucified Man lives again

bwowhwowowWOWwow bwowWHOAaaaaa....

204 EC Marm  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:32:36pm

re: #193 mama winger


&#9834 Onward Christian soldiers, marching as to war. &#9834


I wonder if that is ever played inside of a C of E facility?

205 WriterMom  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:33:05pm

re: #198 MandyManners

They have poured countless euros into the jizyah pot there, trying to stave off the beast. Fucking lunacy.

206 MarkX  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:33:22pm

re: #190 Shr_Nfr

It would be an interesting sight to see Charles and Camilla both being stoned to death for adultery.

Sorry.
Although normally I would find that funny, in the context of this thread it's not.

207 republic  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:33:23pm

re: #195 Slumbering Behemoth

They (ACLU, the Progsoc) threaten more than just your faith, they are a threat to everything this country stands for.

What did the Founders of this country base the U.S. Constitution and Bill of Rights on?

Heh.

208 unreconstructed rebel  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:33:28pm

re: #173 TalkinKamel

My take. It's the substance (read good news), not liturgy that is most important. I have observed:

Excellent liturgy + weak message = no attendance
Bad liturgy + weak message = no attendance
Excellent liturgy + strong message = strong attendance
Bad liturgy + strong message = strong attendance

Bottom line: hip liturgy does not make up for a weak gospel.

209 TalkinKamel  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:33:47pm

Okay, WriterMom, you asked for it! [Link: fratres.wordpress.com...]

210 redstateredneck  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:33:57pm

re: #193 mama winger

Only in the large, evangelical churches of the Baptist and independent denominations is there resistance to the trend, but many of these churches also show some decline. One small area of growth is in Northern Ireland, where the enthusiasm of Pentecostals and other independents has led to a slight increase in numbers of churches - a trend expected to continue to 2050. The three growing denominations are the Orthodox, Pentecostals and smaller denominations, all dependent to a degree on immigration.


linky

211 WriterMom  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:34:00pm

re: #203 Occasional Reader

Oooh, preach it!

(says the suburban Jewish Jewhadi Mom to the atheist....)

212 Silhouette  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:34:16pm

re: #190 Shr_Nfr

Interesting? I would find it horrifying, no matter my opinion of them. I don't want shariah for my enemies as justice for allowing shariah in the first place.

213 republic  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:34:18pm

"Praise The Lord and pass the ammunition."

214 MandyManners  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:34:20pm

Back to drudgery.

215 reloadingisnotahobby  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:34:29pm

re: #184 tappin52

You may have to help me up onto the wall, but I'll be there with you!


As for me ....Just give me the high ground and a clear line...
Till the barrels have melted!
What a way to go!

216 WriterMom  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:34:33pm

re: #209 TalkinKamel

GAAAAAAAAAAA MY EEEEEEYYYYYYESSSSSSSSSSSS

217 Slumbering Behemoth  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:34:47pm

re: #187 markx

Right on! Also, could you ask them to bring sandwiches? We might be up there a long time.

218 coquimbojoe  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:34:53pm

re: #202 Killgore Trout

I don't have anything specific in mind. The church needs to provide people with a modern and relevant form of spirituality. If they don't provide it people won't show up. I don't think it's about gimmicks and puppet shows.

You, my godless friend, are exactly right. Those churches/religions that are presenting people with clear cut doctrines rather than just pomp, pap and touchy feely crap, are still filling the pews.

219 cygnus  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:35:02pm

re: #172 jcm

Amen, Amen and Amen.
Did I say AMEN!

Googleplex Amens.

220 Eowyn2  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:35:29pm

re: #177 yma o hyd

they are merely figrureheads.
yes, we know that.
HOWEVER, that is only because they have abdicated their ruling status. they still have the ability to manipulate public opinion and, in my view, should be doing just that.

Longshanks was a king.
Henry Vii was a king.
Elizabeth 1 was a queen

221 TalkinKamel  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:35:45pm

re: #202 Killgore Trout

And what do you mean by a "relevant", "modern" spirituality?

(By the way, those who put on church puppet shows and the like claim that they are being modern and relevant. And, as you yourself admit, you don't have any clear ideas on the subject, so how can you say what the church should be doing at all?)

222 Bubblehead II  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:35:47pm

OT

But anything that puts a bee in Pelosi's knickers is always good news.

Al Gore goof gets Pelosi in hot water

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., soon may be facing ethics charges from the Federal Elections Commission for a television commercial that apparently violated federal campaign finance laws.

223 Widow'smight  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:35:59pm

re: #170 republic

We shouldn't worry about the ACLU, Christianity isn't about symbols. Besides, by bringing forth these lawsuits, they're making Christianity more appealing, not less.

In a world gone crazy, that narrow gate is much more appealing to me.

224 TalkinKamel  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:36:19pm

re: #216 WriterMom

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHA!

(Serves you right for putting images of mimes in my head!)

225 mama winger  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:36:30pm

re: #210 redstateredneck

The three growing denominations are the Orthodox, Pentecostals and smaller denominations,

It is very interesting to me that the Orthodox Church is one of the churches that is gaining attendance worldwide. For those who push for a 'more modern' church experience, this fact just flies in the face of all that. :)

226 Eowyn2  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:36:34pm

re: #178 cygnus
and The Lord of the Rings trilogy

3000 years of western cultural history will be revised.

227 unreconstructed rebel  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:36:45pm

re: #193 mama winger

The Episcopal Organization dropped Onward Christian Soldiers as too belacose. And .... oh, well.

228 Occasional Reader  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:37:01pm

re: #211 WriterMom

Oooh, preach it!

Judas betrayed him
now he stands crowned with thorns
Planning Redemption
a new world to be born

229 republic  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:37:22pm

re: #215 reloadingisnotahobby

As for me ....Just give me the high ground and a clear line...
Till the barrels have melted!
What a way to go!

With many modern firearms, a person doesn't have to worry about the barrels melting.

Just fire until everything goes black(only momentarily), or live to fight another day.

What a way to go!

230 Slumbering Behemoth  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:37:30pm

re: #207 republic

Well, Lizard Gmsc provided many interesting points on that very subject a while back.

I could link them if you like?

231 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:37:52pm

re: #209 TalkinKamel

Okay, WriterMom, you asked for it! [Link: fratres.wordpress.com...]

The Puppets.....The Puppets.....

232 Silhouette  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:38:06pm

re: #193 mama winger

Onward Christian soldiers, marching as to war.

We march "as" to war, the jihadists march to war.

233 jcm  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:38:08pm

re: #193 mama winger

The Church of England is not synonymous with Christianity. There are other, growing, churches in England besides the state church. Pentecostal churches are gaining in attendance. People will go to wherever the actual Gospel is preached and lived out. Churches that have substituted the leftist agenda for Christianity will be found wanting. Marxism always leads to failure, whatever the setting.

Onward Christian soldiers, marching as to war.

Same pattern here. The churches with a left leaning agenda are losing membership. While the more gospel oriented are gaining.

234 MarkX  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:38:14pm

re: #217 Slumbering Behemoth

Right on! Also, could you ask them to bring sandwiches? We might be up there a long time.


That's the womens work.

*ducks*

just kidding,
just kidding,
just kidding,

235 republic  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:38:29pm

re: #218 coquimbojoe

You, my godless friend, are exactly right. Those churches/religions that are presenting people with clear cut doctrines rather than just pomp, pap and touchy feely crap, are still filling the pews.

Killgore Trout "gets it" even when he doesn't get it.

Splendid!

236 redstateredneck  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:38:35pm

re: #225 mama winger

It is very interesting to me that the Orthodox Church is one of the churches that is gaining attendance worldwide. For those who push for a 'more modern' church experience, this fact just flies in the face of all that. :)


I think that there's a lot of comfort in tradition.

237 Killgore Trout  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:38:36pm

re: #221 TalkinKamel

And what do you mean by a "relevant", "modern" spirituality?


I don't really know. Like I said I don't have specific ideas. But there is a reason why pews in Europe are empty and churches are shutting down. All too often I see the churches blaming the people and society for this. I think it's the churches who are too blame.

238 Silhouette  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:38:37pm

re: #215 reloadingisnotahobby

Till the barrels have melted!

Grab an alligator and fight another round.

239 jcm  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:38:45pm

re: #204 EC Marm

I wonder if that is ever played inside of a C of E facility?

A martial warmonger intolerant piece like that.
I think not!

240 cygnus  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:38:53pm

re: #184 tappin52

You may have to help me up onto the wall, but I'll be there with you!

We'll bring ladders. And guns. And swords. And....

241 mama winger  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:39:01pm

re: #227 unreconstructed rebel

The Episcopal Organization dropped Onward Christian Soldiers as too belacose. And .... oh, well.

I remember lining up on the sidewalk, walking into Sunday School, singing that song. I was four years old. We carried the Christian flag, and the American flag, and sang loud and proud about defending our way of life.

good times

242 yma o hyd  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:39:18pm

re: #102 TalkinKamel

Absolutely - and there are indeed quite powerful signs that turnarounds, and moving away from soft-marxist stances are underway.
These things do take time, and there have been far to many false battles which were fought (womens' ordinations, for one).
It is also worth remembering that while officially there is no separation of Church and state in England (the Welsh Anglican Church is separated) - there has been this long gentlemen's agreement that the bishops may sit in the House of Lords, but kindly STFU and let NuLab do the work!

As for looking to other religions - the CofE now works very closely with the Methodist Churches in england, as with the RC.
The one thing the Anglican Church in general is famous for is that it is not exactly dogmatic: lots of differnt views can find room udner her wings.
Regarding the work to be done vis-avis the State, there is one in particular who doesn't 'fit' into this scheme of gentlemens' agrement, and who doesn't mince words, one of the new breed of bishops, is Dr John Sentamu, Archbishop of York.

But like all these good bishops, he knows that work ahs to start at the bottom, with the children, with educating those who will become priests. Thats why I think it does take time - but hey, its not just the bishops who've got work to do, its all of us who go to church, who confess being part of this church.
Its no good sitting on our hands, moaning and complaining about soft bishops if we can't be bothered to do our bit, not just in the Church, but especially in our communities and neighbourhoods.

243 cookielady  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:39:30pm

re: #98 Slumbering Behemoth

No hiding in priest holes for me. I'm not a soldier, nor a super-hero, nor a bad-ass, but I am an American. That's gotta count for something. Let the children fill the bunkers, I'll be on the wall.

I will stand beside you. I will be proud to have your back. Deal?

245 MarkX  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:39:44pm

re: #241 mama winger

What, about 40 years ago or so?

/sigh

246 unreconstructed rebel  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:39:44pm

re: #222 Bubblehead II

Goody!

247 mama winger  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:40:26pm

re: #236 redstateredneck

I think that there's a lot of comfort in tradition.

And there's a whole lot of truth behind that tradition. The truth is always attractive. People like truth.

248 Ojoe  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:40:35pm

re: #193 mama winger

Onward Yes

Look at the cathedrals, do you think they were built by people wracked by doubts and confusion

After the Middle Ages, humanity began to regroup, but the goals were lower

And now we are at the end of a long era of confusion

249 redstateredneck  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:40:44pm

re: #241 mama winger

I remember lining up on the sidewalk, walking into Sunday School, singing that song. I was four years old. We carried the Christian flag, and the American flag, and sang loud and proud about defending our way of life.

good times

We pledged to the Bible and the Christian flag.

250 ted  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:40:46pm

Change !

251 cygnus  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:40:48pm

re: #193 mama winger

The Church of England is not synonymous with Christianity. There are other, growing, churches in England besides the state church. Pentecostal churches are gaining in attendance. People will go to wherever the actual Gospel is preached and lived out. Churches that have substituted the leftist agenda for Christianity will be found wanting. Marxism always leads to failure, whatever the setting.

Onward Christian soldiers, marching as to war.

Calvary Chapel has planted several churches in the UK and I hear that they're doing quite well.

252 mama winger  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:40:55pm

re: #245 MarkX

What, about 40 years ago or so?

/sigh

A little more than that. LOL :P

253 Slumbering Behemoth  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:41:03pm

re: #234 MarkX

I'll take sandwiches from whoever makes them, so long as they wash their hands.
/you know, it was a man who made the first sandwich

254 kuffarharbi  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:41:10pm

re: #204 EC Marm

I wonder if that is ever played inside of a C of E facility?

Check out the old movie 'Mrs Miniver', the World War 2 drama with that lovely actress, Greer Garson. There's a great scene with that hymn being sung in a bombed out church in Kent if I remember rightly.

255 republic  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:41:18pm

re: #223 Widow'smight

We shouldn't worry about the ACLU, Christianity isn't about symbols. Besides, by bringing forth these lawsuits, they're making Christianity more appealing, not less.

In a world gone crazy, that narrow gate is much more appealing to me.

I will oppose all and any evil while I have the breath of life in me.

The ACLU is literally attacking my Lord, not symbols.

My Lord is not a symbol.

256 Killgore Trout  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:41:19pm

re: #235 republic

Killgore Trout "gets it" even when he doesn't get it.


Heh, thanks. I'm not spiritual so I'm a little out of my league when it come to diagnosing the church's problems and proposing cures. I do recognize that many people do have spiritual needs that could easily be served by the churches in Europe.

257 WriterMom  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:41:41pm

re: #244 Alouette

Don't sweat it. Those are two notorious lefties.

Their influence is about as big as Nasrallah's pipik.

258 unreconstructed rebel  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:42:51pm

re: #241 mama winger

Christian flag?

You got me on that one. Got a pitcher? (or are you thinking church flag. Seen plenty o' them.

259 reloadingisnotahobby  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:42:59pm

re: #229 republic
No...
But I've gotten them hot enough to only hit your target with a lucky richocet!Ha!

260 mama winger  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:43:35pm

re: #258 unreconstructed rebel

Christian flag?

You got me on that one. Got a pitcher? (or are you thinking church flag. Seen plenty o' them.

Not a church flag. Let me see if I can find a pic.

I think I can remember the pledge too.

261 Ojoe  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:43:38pm

re: #255 republic

When you are baptized you promise (or your godparents promise for you) to resist Stan and all his works.

262 Slumbering Behemoth  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:43:56pm

re: #243 cookielady

Deal! Just don't bring any cookies, that'll wreak havoc on my blood-sugar. Don't wanna be all shaky.
/

263 ethanxxx  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:44:51pm

30 years? Sounds pretty optimistic to me. I was thinking more like 4 years. One of, if not the main reason, that this medieval cult is allowed to flourish is that it is becoming a crime to point out the murderous doctrine that they adhere to. The only saving grace for the UK may be to adapt more gun rights for its citizens.

264 Bubblehead II  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:44:51pm

re: #238 Silhouette

Battle of New Orleans

265 mean Gene  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:45:03pm

I may be reading too much between the lines there but is seems as though the C of E wishes it, too, could force C of E inmates into services in prison.
If obeying some weird Islamic practice is dubbed by C of E as, "Monty Pythonesque," shouldn't all religion be removed from British society rather than C of E practices simply added on, too?
And the bit about how to fight ''honor killings.''
Shouldn't having the entire book thrown at you going to act as a deterrent?
Or do we have to have ''hate crimes?"
Why informal dealings?
A murder is a murder.
When men lay in wait, plot to bring a girl to a certain place to kill her they cannot turn around and plead emotions of the spur of the moment.
I just don't get what it is that the C of E hopes to achieve.

266 ajmurray[deleted]  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:45:04pm
267 mama winger  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:45:14pm
268 Honorary Yooper  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:45:41pm

re: #241 mama winger

I remember lining up on the sidewalk, walking into Sunday School, singing that song. I was four years old. We carried the Christian flag, and the American flag, and sang loud and proud about defending our way of life.

good times

What's the "Christian flag"? This is the only "Christian flag" I know of. We never sing Onward Christian Soldiers either (it's not even in the music issue), but we do sing A Mighty Fortress from time to time.

269 Silhouette  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:45:52pm

No one likes to pray to "To whom it may concern."

Churches have decided that the God of Justice won't sell well with the masses, because He's all about rules, and nobody likes rules, dude. Likewise the forgiving God, because that implies you've done something to be forgiven for, and no one wants to be told they're a sinner.

They've removed those parts of God and created a false God that they think is more palatable. But removed of His true substance, their false God is made of paper and cobwebs, and disintegrates in the face of pressure as easily as the paper faith it inspires.

/my humble opinion

270 akak  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:46:03pm
the civilization of modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilization of ancient Rome

"Who is Winston Churchill, Alex?"

271 alegrias  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:46:09pm

Charles got a hat tip over at the [Link: www.weeklystandard...] blog item about WashPost factchecking candidate's WWII "family legends"!

Also there, good news about a McCain-Romney ticket.

Romney's impressive as a man who gets what we're fighting here, plus he's a man of strong faith who was able to transmit this faith to his children and grandchildren AND who was willing to electronically bug mosques in his state of Massachusetts if they were espousing violence.

272 unreconstructed rebel  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:46:12pm

re: #260 mama winger

Closest I can come is the processional cross (showing my heritage). However, it has an interesting history. Constantine used it as his battle ensign in place of the roman eagle.

273 MarkX  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:46:58pm

re: #267 mama winger

I remember going to church as a kid and both the Christian & American flags were up front on the sides.

/30 years ago

274 jcm  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:47:12pm

re: #237 Killgore Trout

I don't really know. Like I said I don't have specific ideas. But there is a reason why pews in Europe are empty and churches are shutting down. All too often I see the churches blaming the people and society for this. I think it's the churches who are too blame.

I think it's the churches who are too blame.

In that you are absolutely correct. In lack in the church is solely province of the church.

In a Christian theology context, the victory has already been won, the enemies of Christ and the Church defeated. It merely has to be exercised by the church. It is our personal failure as Christians, and our collective failure as the Church to proclaim and exercise that victory.

To those outside the church the failure to do what we are charged to do looks like this.

275 unreconstructed rebel  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:47:20pm

re: #266 ajmurray

And you speak english because?

276 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:47:25pm

re: #220 Eowyn2


Longshanks was a king.

Henry Vii was a king.

Elizabeth 1 was a queen

Longshanks' son was a queen, too.

277 mama winger  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:47:33pm

re: #268 Honorary Yooper

re: #272 unreconstructed rebel

See my 267. :)

278 Silhouette  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:48:06pm

re: #249 redstateredneck

We pledged to the Bible and the Christian flag.

Now, they pledge allegiance to dirt.

279 MarkX  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:48:07pm

re: #268 Honorary Yooper


LOL.

Obviously, you never attended a 'Bible thumping' church.

280 mama winger  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:48:25pm

re: #273 MarkX

I remember going to church as a kid and both the Christian & American flags were up front on the sides.

/30 years ago

Me too. It's funny - I had forgotten that till today.

281 redstateredneck  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:48:37pm

re: #273 MarkX

I remember going to church as a kid and both the Christian & American flags were up front on the sides.

/30 years ago

We still put ours up for Memorial Day Sunday, 4th of July, etc.
And teach the pledges to the kids in Bible School.

282 alegrias  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:48:41pm

re: #266 ajmurray

* * *
Ignorant fool. Beyond all that, who gave us the tradition of individual rights, common law, habeas corpus, private property, a beautiful language, the King James Bible & Shakespeare & scientific inquiry and so much more?

283 Ojoe  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:48:46pm

re: #260 mama winger

The Danish flag would come close.

Supposedly it goes back to the crusades.

284 yma o hyd  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:48:58pm

re: #127 Killgore Trout

Well - there are at least two factors which contributed enormously to the decline of Christianity in Europe.
One is the fact that after two devastating wars fought in the middle of Europe, with the loss of live that meant, not just for the military but for the civilians as well, there were not many who could turn back to the Church they grew up with.
Obviously there were the long years of anti-church indoctrination, both under Hitler and in the Soviet Bloc Countries.
those choldren, now grown up, make up the bulk of atheists who strongly believe that the Christian Churches are the root of all evil - and who, when in power, do their best to elimiate any church influence from all walks of life.
This is not what one could describe as a secular society - it has, in certain parts of Europe gone way beyond this.
Why it has become so virulent in GB - i think its to do with the fact that the young NULab politicians have all come from deeply marxist/stalinist backgrounds.
A secular society is fine - but not one which is actively anti-Christian, while at the same time, through multi-culti - supporting and easing Islam.

285 nyc redneck  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:49:02pm

i'm heartened by people like the airport worker in glasgow who kicked the sh*t out of that flaming jihadi. there are many people who will fight. they're not mad enough yet. many are smoldering now and when their anger combusts there's going to be some singeing. in fact, the world may call on us to put out the fire. i'll vote no. unless it's to help the brits. (my guess is they won't need it).

286 DesertSage  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:49:36pm

re: #256 Killgore Trout

Heh, thanks. I'm not spiritual so I'm a little out of my league when it come to diagnosing the church's problems and proposing cures. I do recognize that many people do have spiritual needs that could easily be served by the churches in Europe.

Wow. I usually only talk to you when you say something absurd and I challenge you on it.
But this time you said something that makes a lot of sense, so to be fair, I applaud you for it. Bravo.

287 MarkX  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:50:00pm

re: #280 mama winger


This thread is really starting to cause me to be sad.

288 J.S.  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:50:18pm

I also recall an article published in the National Post (written by the Catholic priest). The author condemned the UK's recent decision to OK the creation of animal-human hybrids (I believe at the embyonic level), as well as the use of human beings as mere "spare parts" repositories. His final remark was that we should pity the children being raised in such environments. (I think this acts in unison with or goes hand-in-hand with the Islamification of the UK...)

289 akak  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:50:24pm

re: #266 ajmurray


2 posts since August?

290 Ojoe  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:50:46pm

re: #285 nyc redneck

Alex McIlveen was that Scott.

291 MarkX  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:50:48pm

re: #281 redstateredneck


Of couse, you name explains it all!

LOL...

292 mama winger  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:50:51pm

re: #283 Ojoe

The Cross symbol appears on so many things of European origin. It's a shame the modern Europeans seem to turn their backs now.

293 koedo  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:50:58pm

What a terrible legacy the last two generations of Britons will be known for: the surrender and intentional murder of their own remarkable nation and culture.

294 jorline  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:51:11pm

re: #263 ethanxxx

30 years? Sounds pretty optimistic to me. I was thinking more like 4 years. One of, if not the main reason, that this medieval cult is allowed to flourish is that it is becoming a crime to point out the murderous doctrine that they adhere to. The only saving grace for the UK may be to adapt more gun rights for its citizens.

I tend to agree with you, ethan. Thirty years is very optimistic, I give them ten max! Everyday citizens throughout Europe are losing the country their fathers and grandfather fought for. Because they've rolled over and appeased this radical fringe they have no one to blame but themselves.

295 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:51:38pm

re: #280 mama winger

Me too. It's funny - I had forgotten that till today.

Still have the American flag & Vatican flag displayed in every Catholic church I've been in.

296 mama winger  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:51:41pm

re: #287 MarkX

This thread is really starting to cause me to be sad.

Never give up. Never give in.

297 republic  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:51:46pm

re: #269 Silhouette

No one likes to pray to "To whom it may concern."

Churches have decided that the God of Justice won't sell well with the masses, because He's all about rules, and nobody likes rules, dude. Likewise the forgiving God, because that implies you've done something to be forgiven for, and no one wants to be told they're a sinner.

They've removed those parts of God and created a false God that they think is more palatable. But removed of His true substance, their false God is made of paper and cobwebs, and disintegrates in the face of pressure as easily as the paper faith it inspires.

/my humble opinion

Spot on!

298 EE  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:52:02pm

Europe has abandoned Christianity, its religion of the past 20 centuries, and the only religious people are the Muslims. So of course the religion of Europe is going to be Islam in the future. The only point of possible disagreement among objective observers is when the change takes place.

CHANGE!
(Change does not always bring things that you want to happen. There are hurricanes, tornadoes, earthquakes and other natural acts that bring change. There is also the change that comes from humans behaving humanly, continuing the trends that they have been following. One of these trends is the Islamization of Europe. It's what's changing there.)

299 nyc redneck  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:52:13pm

re: #243 cookielady

I will stand beside you. I will be proud to have your back. Deal?

let me in on the fun cookielady.

300 reloadingisnotahobby  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:52:15pm

re: #285 nyc redneck

Fighting mad?
Best to plan the battle before the blood boils!
I don't know who said that......
So!..... I guess I did!

301 eschew_obfuscation  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:52:39pm

re: #266 ajmurray

Serves 'em right, the arrogant pricks. The British subjugated people around the world for centuries, from here in America to Egypt, the Sudan, much of the African continent, the Middle East, India, Ireland, Scotland, Wales, the East Indies, Australia, the whole malignant "British Empire". Now they're getting a taste of their own. I hope every last sorry one of them ends up in a burkha praying five times a day in forgiveness for the misery they inflicted on the world.

If that's how you feel, you may have trouble living anywhere in the world. There is almost no part of the world that has not sought empire at one time or another.

302 yma o hyd  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:53:00pm

re: #153 unreconstructed rebel

Myself likewise would be grateful for your rumours as well - then we can weigh them against each other.

303 Occasional Reader  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:53:00pm

re: #266 ajmurray

The British subjugated people around the world for centuries

Every powerful nation in history "subjugated" people. The British generally at least left something positive in their wake; the Common Law tradition not being the least of them. And naturally, all those places you mentioned were enlightened paradises of human happiness before the evil British came, right?

304 jorline  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:53:16pm

re: #266 ajmurray

Serves 'em right, the arrogant pricks. The British subjugated people around the world for centuries, from here in America to Egypt, the Sudan, much of the African continent, the Middle East, India, Ireland, Scotland, Wales, the East Indies, Australia, the whole malignant "British Empire". Now they're getting a taste of their own. I hope every last sorry one of them ends up in a burkha praying five times a day in forgiveness for the misery they inflicted on the world.

Che...is that you?

305 Ojoe  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:53:26pm

re: #292 mama winger

To their loss.

But temporarily I believe.

(Back to work for me.)

306 abolitionist  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:53:29pm

re: #154 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

It could be argued that WWII was in part started by the Japanese, with the seizure of Manchuria, then the invasion of the rest of China.

Yes, and El Duce was field-testing planes, poison gas, tanks, machine guns, and moslem soldiers jihadis in Africa a few years before Germany invaded Poland on Sep 1, 1939.

307 ethanxxx  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:53:39pm
308 Slumbering Behemoth  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:53:55pm

re: #266 ajmurray

t(t")

309 Occasional Reader  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:53:57pm

re: #295 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

Still have the American flag & Vatican flag displayed in every Catholic church I've been in.

Yep. (Well, every Catholic church in the US, anyway.)

310 nyc redneck  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:54:23pm

re: #300 reloadingisnotahobby

Fighting mad?
Best to plan the battle before the blood boils!
I don't know who said that......
So!..... I guess I did!

i bet there are some meetings going on now. (how could there not be at this point?)

311 loppyd  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:54:38pm

re: #271 alegrias

Charles got a hat tip over at the [Link: www.weeklystandard...] blog item about WashPost factchecking candidate's WWII "family legends"!

Also there, good news about a McCain-Romney ticket.

Romney's impressive as a man who gets what we're fighting here, plus he's a man of strong faith who was able to transmit this faith to his children and grandchildren AND who was willing to electronically bug mosques in his state of Massachusetts if they were espousing violence.

moonbats heads exploded throughout the Commonwealth over that one.

BWAAAAHAHAHAHAHA.

Romney would pretty much secure Michigan. McCain will destroy Obama in Florida. You can't win the presidency without them.

Unless you look at the "new map" the Obama people keep referring to.

312 DesertSage  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:54:53pm

re: #292 mama winger

The Cross symbol appears on so many things of European origin. It's a shame the modern Europeans seem to turn their backs now.

If the ACLU had there way, all crosses would be banished from everything that has to do with the government. They were behind the removal of three little tiny crosses that were on the city symbol of Los Angeles. The crosses represented the missionary heritage of L.A.

313 Bubblehead II  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:55:04pm

re: #266 ajmurray

ajmurray

Registered since: Aug 28, 2007 at 5:46 pm
No. of comments posted: 2
No. of links posted: 0

Veeerrryyy Interesting, No?

314 Occasional Reader  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:55:10pm

re: #306 abolitionist

re: #154 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

It could be argued that WWII was in part started by the Japanese, with the seizure of Manchuria, then the invasion of the rest of China.

Yes, and El Duce was field-testing planes, poison gas, tanks, machine guns, and moslem soldiers jihadis in Africa a few years before Germany invaded Poland on Sep 1, 1939.

Really, the whole thing is a continuation of the Great Neanderthal/Cro-Magnon War.

315 ethanxxx  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:55:15pm

re: #296 mama winger

Never give up. Never give in.

Never forget... Never again.

316 EC Marm  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:55:35pm

re: #266 ajmurray
Don't run away. Tell us what you really think.

317 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:55:42pm

re: #306 abolitionist

Yes, and El Duce was field-testing planes, poison gas, tanks, machine guns, and moslem soldiers jihadis in Africa a few years before Germany invaded Poland on Sep 1, 1939.

Didn't know that Mussolini had jihadis in the ranks. I know that Franco's revolt, which began the Spanish Civil War (a dress rehersal for WWII) was manned by his North African muslim forces.

318 Honorary Yooper  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:55:52pm

re: #279 MarkX

LOL.

Obviously, you never attended a 'Bible thumping' church.

Nope, I'm Catholic, so I've never had reason to do so.

I think this Pope is going to fix those parts of the Church that need fixing. As much as people loved JP2, he ignored the problems within the Church to go globetrotting. Benedict has seen the problems for years, and now has a chance to fix them.

319 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:56:27pm

re: #312 DesertSage

If
the ACLU had there way, all crosses would be banished from everything
that has to do with the government. They were behind the removal of
three little tiny crosses that were on the city symbol of Los Angeles.
The crosses represented the missionary heritage of L.A.

No right angles anywhere!

320 mama winger  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:56:34pm

The very un-PC hymn

Onward Christian Soldiers

as sung by Englishmen :)

321 formercorpsman  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:57:00pm

re: #236 redstateredneck

It has to do with one's roots.

322 loppyd  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:58:05pm

Breaking from NY Times:

Democrats Are Advised to Seat Half of 2 States’ Delegations

SNIP


Democratic Party lawyers have determined that no more than half the delegates from Florida and Michigan can be seated at the party’s August convention, dealing a blow to Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton’s efforts to seat the full delegations from those states.

The rules committee of the Democratic National Committee meets on Saturday to determine whether to seat the delegates from these states, which were penalized for holding early primaries.

323 Honorary Yooper  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:58:31pm

re: #295 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

Still have the American flag & Vatican flag displayed in every Catholic church I've been in.

Yep, all but one church I've been to Mass in has been that way. The lone exception was one in Toronto. They had the Canadian flag instead of the US flag (for the obvious reasons). :-)

/It was also a French Mass too.

324 DeathtotheSwiss  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:58:35pm

re: #301 eschew_obfuscation

Personally, I rather admire the Imperial Structure. Although, I guess I'm not supposed to admit that?

Still, I wonder what anyone would expect the U.S. to do if, let's say, we were attacked with a nuclear weapon in one or two major cities. Would we sit back and just pretend it never happened like liberals pretend 9/11 was a fluke/government conspiracy or would we immediately re-instate the draft, execute those who refuse to serve, invade every terror-sponsoring nation in the world and perhaps even ban any religious teachings that didn't favor the surviving politicians in power? I imagine the world would realize the true meaning of the word "empire" in such a case.

What do you guys think?

325 Silhouette  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:59:09pm

re: #313 Bubblehead II

All that Brit-hatin' takes up too much time to post.

326 Silhouette  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:59:34pm

re: #322 loppyd

But how is this Bush's fault?

327 nyc redneck  Wed, May 28, 2008 12:59:47pm

re: #290 Ojoe

Alex McIlveen was that Scott.

yes, thanks for remember his name. and what a humble hero he was. he said, he just did what anyone would have done.

328 stuiec  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:00:03pm

re: #107 Slumbering Behemoth

That may cause some tremors, but just wait until they try to take away their football soccer. The very foundations of the earth will quake.


But they won't try to take away the football -- they'll just try to make the fans watch it without alcohol. I have to think that the only thing more frightening than a horde of lager louts is a horde of lager louts that have been denied their lager.

329 amphibian  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:00:24pm

Way to go, Rowan. On the one hand this is a bit like Pres. Peanut's malaise speech: "I can't see any way out of this [because, Jimmy, you are an idiot], therefore, there can not possibly be any way out of it". On the other hand, it sounds like England has a very big problem. Pity. There was something likable in a country that could both pull off an heroic defense against Hitler and invent the Tea Goblin ([Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

Last Brit out, please turn off the lights (do it for the polar bears!).

330 yma o hyd  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:00:26pm

re: #185 nyc redneck

Indeed not.
There was a by-election (thats when a MP dies, for example: an eelction to 'man' that seat again) last Thursday - Labour held that seat for an eternity.
Huge swing to the Tories - they got 49.something of the votes ...
Labour got about 30%...
The groundswell is there, and it is rising - and it won't be the BNP who'll be the winner!
It is difficult to convey the feelings and opinions of the normal British citizens, where all you get to know about it are the MSM, who are a0 London-based, and b) have been lefties for a very long time ...

331 quickjustice  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:00:33pm

The church editorial is direct and truthful. For that reason alone, it merits praise. We now know that there are two sane people (the editorialist and Dr. Darymple) in all of England.

The question now becomes: what are the English prepared to do, if anything, to defend their civilization? I suppose they could begin by attending the Sunday services in Temple Church, London, sanctified by the Pope in the year 1100 during the Crusades.

332 cookielady  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:00:44pm

re: #193 mama winger

The Church of England is not synonymous with Christianity. There are other, growing, churches in England besides the state church. Pentecostal churches are gaining in attendance. People will go to wherever the actual Gospel is preached and lived out. Churches that have substituted the leftist agenda for Christianity will be found wanting. Marxism always leads to failure, whatever the setting.

Onward Christian soldiers, marching as to war.

Amen! Preach it, my sistah!

333 indythinker  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:00:58pm

The Brits have emasculated themselves. How pathetic.

334 formercorpsman  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:01:06pm

re: #237 Killgore Trout

Killgore, you do have an element of truth.

However, it is also their rampant secularism dictated by those with a religious fervor for socialism who see the past a barricade to their progress.

This train has been barreling down the tracks for years, and is now blowing the whistle as it is approaching the station.

335 Ringo the Gringo  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:01:33pm
re: #107 Slumbering Behemoth

That may cause some tremors, but just wait until they try to take away their football soccer. The very foundations of the earth will quake.

That may cause some tremors, but just wait until they try to close down the pubs. The very foundations of the earth will quake.

Fixed it.

336 alegrias  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:01:33pm

re: #311 loppyd

moonbats heads exploded throughout the Commonwealth over that one.

BWAAAAHAHAHAHAHA.

Romney would pretty much secure Michigan. McCain will destroy Obama in Florida. You can't win the presidency without them.

Unless you look at the "new map" the Obama people keep referring to.

* * *
How cool was it that a religious person (Romney) who doesn't drink coffee, tea or chai or Coke, was governor of Massachusetts, and believes in defending this country and our peaceful faith communities from radical violent ideologies that target us specifically? Thank you, Massachusetts voters with a conscience.

Romney's election there, and (short) candidacy for president are great achievements in my book. I love his sunny disposition and STRENGTH & VIGOR. Romney visibly loves this country and its commitment to individuals' faiths--not totalitarian ideologies masquerading as faiths while undermining our laws with Sharia.

Plus Romney is intelligent and appreciates what makes America strong--individuals achieving their individual goals of life, liberty, pursuit of happiness, business, trade, expansion of freedom.

337 loppyd  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:01:41pm

re: #326 Silhouette

But how is this Bush's fault?

Give it a few minutes. LOL

BBL

338 markx  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:01:51pm

re: #320 mama winger

The very un-PC hymn

Onward Christian Soldiers

as sung by Englishmen :)

And sad to think it was written by an Englishman.

339 reloadingisnotahobby  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:01:59pm

re: #320 mama winger

BEAUTIFUL!
Still in our pew Hymnals!
Stll sung also!

340 jorline  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:03:01pm

re: #266 ajmurray

Serves 'em right, the arrogant pricks. The British subjugated people around the world for centuries, from here in America to Egypt, the Sudan, much of the African continent, the Middle East, India, Ireland, Scotland, Wales, the East Indies, Australia, the whole malignant "British Empire". Now they're getting a taste of their own. I hope every last sorry one of them ends up in a burkha praying five times a day in forgiveness for the misery they inflicted on the world.

Wait until you live under Islamic law...tell then how oppressive the "British Empire" really was...ass-hat!

341 yma o hyd  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:03:04pm

re: #186 TalkinKamel

He knows that there is no way at all that he can 'get power'.
If he thinks he might do so on the abck of some islamists, then - and I'm sure he knows that - it'll be the very swift end of the British Monarchy, never mind the House of Windsor ...

342 kuffarharbi  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:03:04pm

Great church scene from John Ford's 'My Darling Clementine'

343 Who Watches the Watchmen?  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:03:10pm

re: #306 abolitionist

Yes, and El Duce was field-testing planes, poison gas, tanks, machine guns, and moslem soldiers jihadis in Africa a few years before Germany invaded Poland on Sep 1, 1939.

Wasn't El Duce Obama's Great-Uncle-in-law who broke the color barrier with the 1937 Yankees?

344 loppyd  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:03:18pm

re: #336 alegrias

Plus he is easy on the eyes.

Seriously, I was proud to call him my governor and would feel even greater pride were he to be our country's V.P.

Really gone now.

BBL if the crazies stop calling!

345 Eowyn2  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:03:29pm

re: #276 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

Well yes, but did you know that Longshanks grandson had his mother impaled?

346 DesertSage  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:03:51pm

re: #322 loppyd

Breaking from NY Times:

Democrats Are Advised to Seat Half of 2 States’ Delegations

SNIP

Obama - Selected...not elected!

What ever happened to "every vote counts, count every vote!"

347 republic  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:03:56pm

Off Topic,

Great read......

The economy consumes the nightly newscasts. Broadcast networks report that America’s finances are “like a house of cards.” ABC, CBS and NBC even hyped similarities to the Great Depression more than 40 times in the first four months of 2008. But that parallel doesn’t hold up, especially when analyzing the news of that era. In fact, daily coverage of the 1929 stock market crash strongly emphasized the positive side of events. The New York Times that year summed up a six-day Dow Jones loss of 30 percent as: “the market quickly regained its poise and stability.” In 2008, coverage has taken the opposite tone, even though the Dow dropped just 1/100th of 1 percent in the days after the collapse of investment bank Bear Stearns. ABC found a dark cloud for every silver lining, saying: “And everywhere you look, it’s bad news.” On network news, that statement was accurate.


http://www.businessandmedia.org/specialreports/200 8/GreatDepression/GreatDepression_execsum.asp

348 mama winger  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:03:56pm

re: #339 reloadingisnotahobby

BEAUTIFUL!
Still in our pew Hymnals!
Stll sung also!

Some hymnals that still include it have changed it to "Onward Christian Pilgrims".

wussing out is not attractive :)

349 nyc redneck  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:04:01pm

re: #330 yma o hyd

Indeed not.
There was a by-election (thats when a MP dies, for example: an eelction to 'man' that seat again) last Thursday - Labour held that seat for an eternity.
Huge swing to the Tories - they got 49.something of the votes ...
Labour got about 30%...
The groundswell is there, and it is rising - and it won't be the BNP who'll be the winner!
It is difficult to convey the feelings and opinions of the normal British citizens, where all you get to know about it are the MSM, who are a0 London-based, and b) have been lefties for a very long time ...



kind of our problem too. glad to hear this positive election news.

350 Eowyn2  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:04:04pm

i gotta go do some work

351 docremulac  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:04:15pm

And this will be the legacy of warpigs like George Monbiot who turned their people over to the barbarians so they could get a little more power.

(I'm not calling leftists "peace activists" as they call themselves any more. They're warpigs supporting war against, and the conquering and domination of our people)

352 alegrias  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:04:39pm

re: #312 DesertSage

If the ACLU had there way, all crosses would be banished from everything that has to do with the government. They were behind the removal of three little tiny crosses that were on the city symbol of Los Angeles. The crosses represented the missionary heritage of L.A.

* * *
Socialist Spanish government was reported in today's La Razon as trying to do just that to christian symbols, in a once super-Catholic country that was ruled by a Holy Roman Emperor who persecuted Martin Luther on behalf of the Pope for being an "infidel" to Catholicism.

Socialist Spanish government however funds mosques & mosque maintenance. Kind of like American universities charge students fees to support the Mohammedan Student groups! This is so wrong.

353 Who Watches the Watchmen?  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:05:27pm

And did those feet in ancient time,
Walk upon England’s mountains green:
And was the holy Lamb of God,
On England’s pleasant pastures seen!

And did the Countenance Divine,
Shine forth upon our clouded hills?
And was Jerusalem builded here,
Among these dark Satanic Mills?

Bring me my Bow of burning gold;
Bring me my Arrows of desire:
Bring me my Spear: O clouds unfold:
Bring me my Chariot of fire!

I will not cease from Mental Fight,
Nor Shall my sword sleep in my hand:
Till we have built Jerusalem,
In England’s green & pleasant Land.

354 reloadingisnotahobby  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:05:28pm

re: #348 mama winger
Indeed... Sad!

355 ploome hineni[deleted]  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:05:33pm
356 republic  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:05:35pm

re: #322 loppyd

Breaking from NY Times:

Democrats Are Advised to Seat Half of 2 States’ Delegations

SNIP

The party of "EVERY VOTE MUST BE COUNTED" shows its utter hypocrisy!

357 formercorpsman  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:05:56pm

re: #266 ajmurray

Of course.

2 comments.

358 mama winger  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:05:59pm

re: #338 markx

And sad to think it was written by an Englishman.

That's a very interesting Wiki article. Thanks! I did not know that.

359 Land Shark  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:06:00pm

re: #285 nyc redneck

i'm heartened by people like the airport worker in glasgow who kicked the sh*t out of that flaming jihadi. there are many people who will fight. they're not mad enough yet. many are smoldering now and when their anger combusts there's going to be some singeing. in fact, the world may call on us to put out the fire. i'll vote no. unless it's to help the brits. (my guess is they won't need it).

I'm heartened by the airport worker's bravery too. And I see more and more signs that the British public is starting to get fed up. But unless things change they are going to have to get mad and not take it anymore soon.

If the usually clueless Church of England is that aware of the growing power of Islam in the UK, then things are as bad as we have feared. And with the UK's Labour government encouraging this take over at all levels, then the recent Conservative victory didn't come a moment too soon. The question is, can they reverse the slide into Sharia? Do they have the testicular mass to even try? Stay tuned.

360 ishabibble  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:06:15pm

re: #266 ajmurray

Serves 'em right, the arrogant pricks. The British subjugated people around the world for centuries, from here in America to Egypt, the Sudan, much of the African continent, the Middle East, India, Ireland, Scotland, Wales, the East Indies, Australia, the whole malignant "British Empire". Now they're getting a taste of their own. I hope every last sorry one of them ends up in a burkha praying five times a day in forgiveness for the misery they inflicted on the world.

You sound just like my dear, departed Nan. Heaven knows, she had her reasons, probably much more than most who came from Ireland.
If she were here today, staring into the face of death cult Islam, she would fight alongside the Brits to the death. I know she would, she was the strongest person I've ever known. And she knew good from evil. Injustices, no matter how appalling, do not trump pure evil.

361 cookielady  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:06:23pm

re: #234 MarkX

That's the womens work.

*ducks*

just kidding,
just kidding,
just kidding,

Sweetiepie, I will bring sandwiches, and then I will bring it to the enemy. I am woman, I can cook AND shoot!

362 Occasional Reader  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:06:44pm

re: #343 Who Watches the Watchmen?

Wasn't El Duce Obama's Great-Uncle-in-law who broke the color barrier with the 1937 Yankees?

No, you're thinking of the guy who broke the color barrier in the U.S. Army's Explosive Ordnance Disposal teams: Satchel Charge.

/rimshot

363 eschew_obfuscation  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:06:44pm

re: #324 DeathtotheSwiss

Personally, I rather admire the Imperial Structure. Although, I guess I'm not supposed to admit that?

Still, I wonder what anyone would expect the U.S. to do if, let's say, we were attacked with a nuclear weapon in one or two major cities. Would we sit back and just pretend it never happened like liberals pretend 9/11 was a fluke/government conspiracy or would we immediately re-instate the draft, execute those who refuse to serve, invade every terror-sponsoring nation in the world and perhaps even ban any religious teachings that didn't favor the surviving politicians in power? I imagine the world would realize the true meaning of the word "empire" in such a case.

What do you guys think?

I think that's a bit over the top (I hope it is), but I would expect a robust reaction, such as that which followed 9/11.

Although much maligned, I favor GWB's approach of democratizing as much or the world as possible, as peacefully as possible. Free the oppressed and help them learn to govern themselves. Democracies exist in far more of the world today than 50 years ago and they generally do not attack their neighbors or make attempts at empirialism.

Not all attempts will take root, but we have examples of many that did. Japan, India, South Korea, Germany, France, England, India, Australia..........Iraq?

364 Dave the.....  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:06:46pm
Onward Christian soldiers, marching as to war.

That song has been banned by leftwing Christian churches in the US. At my parents very liberal church, they even have changed the words to the little kiddie song "Jesus loves the little children". No longer can they say "red and yellow, black and white". The church hierarchy has substituted new words in....and they just don't fit. You can't take a melodic song with well known words, and force new PC words into it.

365 Killgore Trout  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:06:52pm

re: #334 formercorpsman

However, it is also their rampant secularism dictated by those with a religious fervor for socialism who see the past a barricade to their progress.


Interesting. That does give me an idea that could help Christianity in Europe. All too often the Vatican issues statements about poverty, inequality, etc. I think the people of Europe would benefit from an "Americanized" form of Christianity; stressing values like hard work, independence, frugality, etc. I think that would give the believers something that could better their lives.

366 Opinionated  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:06:54pm

We have to start making a determination to which British citizens we are willing to give sanctuary.

No to any one who is helping this occur.

No to anyone who ever worked for the BBC.

367 mama winger  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:06:57pm

re: #353 Who Watches the Watchmen?

Beautiful ......

368 jcm  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:07:43pm

re: #324 DeathtotheSwiss

An Empire relies two much on the morals and judgment of it's leaders.

Our advantage, which is slipping IMHO with the tyranny of the judiciary, is the RULE of LAW. Laws which are moral, fair, and universally enforced. Rule of law, coupled with the federal system as conceived by the founders which keeps decision making at the smallest unit of government practical for that decision. Is by far the best system devised by men so far.

Using that system we don't need an empire. We can lead by example.

HOWEVER want we must do is make the consequences of terror so awesome that the cost benefit of the tactic of terror is no longer useful to anyone. That takes an commitment, a commitment to respond to every provocation with consequences so astonishingly immense, that no state would risk allow such a thing let alone support it.

369 pegcity  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:07:45pm

Remember the white flight out of South Africa,

i know im gonna sponser lots of families here in Canada

370 kuffarharbi  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:07:50pm

re: #335 Ringo the Gringo

That may cause some tremors, but just wait until they try to close down the pubs. The very foundations of the earth will quake.

Fixed it.

Yep, the spiritual heart of the two most popular TV shows....Coronation Street and Eastenders...is the pub. That's reality checkpoint for all the protagonists. Sacred space to a Brit.

371 wolfie  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:07:54pm

re: #318 Honorary Yooper

At least he knows that the single most important thing to be restored is the sacred liturgy.
I don't necessarily mean a return to the Latin Tridentine Mass, but a restoration of the sacred.
No one can read his works w/o knowing that, if he had a magic wand, he would immediately return to an ad oriens Mass, for starters.
What he can do and how fast he can do it are limited, however.

Destruction is quick and easy. Rebuilding takes effort and patience.

372 Slumbering Behemoth  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:08:33pm

Well, all this talk of sandwiches has made me hungry.

Catch ya later, Lizards!

373 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:08:35pm

re: #345 Eowyn2

Well yes, but did you know that Longshanks grandson had his mother impaled?


Eww. I knew that royal families tend towards inbreeded, but that's just wrong.
/

374 mama winger  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:08:42pm

re: #364 Dave the.....

That song has been banned by leftwing Christian churches in the US. At my parents very liberal church, they even have changed the words to the little kiddie song "Jesus loves the little children". No longer can they say "red and yellow, black and white". The church hierarchy has substituted new words in....and they just don't fit. You can't take a melodic song with well known words, and force new PC words into it.

Oh for the love of pete.

375 bulwrk  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:08:48pm

re: #266 ajmurray

A lot of those countries that were subject to British rule seem to be doing pretty well today with the exception of the African continent where islam is active in government.

376 ploome hineni[deleted]  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:09:19pm
377 DesertSage  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:09:28pm

re: #352 alegrias

* * *
Socialist Spanish government was reported in today's La Razon as trying to do just that to christian symbols, in a once super-Catholic country that was ruled by a Holy Roman Emperor who persecuted Martin Luther on behalf of the Pope for being an "infidel" to Catholicism.

Socialist Spanish government however funds mosques & mosque maintenance. Kind of like American universities charge students fees to support the Mohammedan Student groups! This is so wrong.

Andalusia!

378 ploome hineni[deleted]  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:10:25pm
379 Iron Fist  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:10:27pm

re: #40 Agahnim,

If a man (or Nation) dethrones God in his heart, the Devil is sure to take up residence.

380 WriterMom  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:10:39pm

re: #365 Killgore Trout

Europe sucks and is in decline. Americans have great churches, but America and the American way of life (in religion, work, politics, everything) is considered second rate in Europe. If Europeans want to have a better spiritual life, and not be taken over by Islam, they are going to have to do it by their own frigging selves. Or not.

381 bosforus  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:11:21pm

Just what the West needs, Muslims inching closer and closer to the Royal Navy.

382 WriterMom  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:11:39pm

And-the Europeans who wanted the American way of life left. Or are leaving.

383 ajmurray  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:11:43pm

You guys get all uppity, don't ya, when someone presents a different point of view? Let me tell you something: I was born and raised in Ireland. My granmother fought in the 1916 rising against their British masters, knew Patrick Pearse who was executed by the British for leading the rebellion, knew Kevin Barry who was hung at 18 years of age because he would not tell the names of others. To the clown who asked why I now speak English the answer is because the Brits banned the Irish language, jailed those who dared speak it and destroyed manuscripts and books written in it. I have no pity for the current state of affairs in England.

And, yes, two posts since August. I don't surf the Internet all day. I have a job. You might want to try it sometime. 'Tis a pity that the number of posts would be considered a badge of honor. Seems to me a sign of intellectual decay.

384 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:11:55pm

re: #365 Killgore Trout

I never thought I'd ding you up for a comment about Christianity!
I think I need to go lay down for a while.

385 Killgore Trout  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:12:10pm

re: #355 ploome hineni

True, I think Christianity didn't perform well in WWII Europe. The years that followed were decades of sexual abuse of children. I think that really hurt the Church's image. But I also think that most people recognize the Churches as a man made institutions and are imperfect. People still need spirituality and would easily return to the churches if it filled the proper needs for them.

386 Widow'smight  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:12:11pm

re: #255 republic

In a fight between the ACLU and the God of Abraham (not the Pilsbury crescent one), I'll bet on Emmanuel. My point was that by removing Crosses from public places, which were symbols of our great Christian heritage, they have not hurt any Christians ability to worship.
Christianity to me is a personal relationship, and the ACLU believes they can destroy Christianity by removing crosses. In my opinion, Anyone who is marginally Christian will be more apt to pursue Christ than reject him because of a bunch of little Twits in the ACLU.

Fighting Evil is a good thing, I do it every day while raising my 3 girsl and loving my wife. But no one but me can fight the evil that lurks in me, and that's the most important struggle. The ability to replace self with selflessness and boldly face all evil you face.

Courage isn't an absense of fear, rather an absense of self.

Onward Christian soldiers. Sing it Mama Winger.

387 formercorpsman  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:12:29pm

re: #365 Killgore Trout


I don't think I have ever agreed with you more.

388 jcm  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:12:49pm

re: #381 bosforus

Just what the West needs, Muslims inching closer and closer to the Royal Navy.

No problem, dawn morning prayers all ships will point to Mecca, every butt on board will be in the air.........

389 alegrias  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:13:03pm

re: #365 Killgore Trout

Interesting. That does give me an idea that could help Christianity in Europe. All too often the Vatican issues statements about poverty, inequality, etc. I think the people of Europe would benefit from an "Americanized" form of Christianity; stressing values like hard work, independence, frugality, etc. I think that would give the believers something that could better their lives.

* * *
Socialist governments in these nanny states have taken over individuals' responsibility for themselves, and perhaps disincentivized families striving for themselves and their childrens' futures.

It's what democrats promise Americans too, nanny-state will fill your every need, educate your children, cradle to grave, if you just turn yourself in and give up your private beliefs.

390 WriterMom  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:13:12pm

re: #383 ajmurray

I have a job. You might want to try it sometime. 'Tis a pity that the number of posts would be considered a badge of honor. Seems to me a sign of intellectual decay.

Did you write the book "How to Make Friends and Influence People"?

/lighten up.

391 yma o hyd  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:13:12pm

re: #285 nyc redneck

You can be pretty certain of that!
And it will be the ordinary folk (who are slowly smouldering already) - and not the self-proclaimed 'leaders' of political parties, or other establishment figures.

392 reloadingisnotahobby  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:13:17pm

re: #375 bulwrk

Actually..WRONG!
Burma is a great example as to what happened when the
colonist left and gave them over to self rule!
Just to name one!
one week after the cyclone they claimed 92%
voter turn out to reellect the same military dicktater!
HONK! I call Bullshit!

393 Killgore Trout  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:13:26pm

re: #384 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

Heh.

394 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:13:35pm

re: #383 ajmurray

You guys get all uppity, don't ya, when someone presents a different
point of view? Let me tell you something: I was born and raised in
Ireland. My granmother fought in the 1916 rising against their British
masters, knew Patrick Pearse who was executed by the British for
leading the rebellion, knew Kevin Barry who was hung at 18 years of age
because he would not tell the names of others.

Was Obama's uncle there, too?

395 ploome hineni[deleted]  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:13:37pm
396 jcm  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:13:39pm

Sniff, Sniff....
Is there a smell in here all of a sudden?

397 mama winger  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:13:45pm

re: #365 Killgore Trout

I think you are getting close to something, Killgore. What has happened to the lefty churches is that they have substituted leftist philosophies for the Christian message, and equated the two.

What is needed are churches that show that the Gospel RESULTS in good works. Good works are not the Gospel. One is the Source, the other is the outflow. Leftist churches have abandoned their Source, and are surprised when results dwindle.

398 Silhouette  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:14:40pm

re: #374 mama winger

Oh for the love of pete.

Please, no "male-only" names. Try to choose a gender-neutral one that also reflects many cultures respresented here today. Or at least one that doesn't sound white.

399 WriterMom  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:14:45pm

re: #397 mama winger

Absolutely. Leftist churches worship liberalism.

400 BGB!  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:14:57pm

BREAKING: Man Unable To Read Spanish Sign Ticketed

ARLINGTON, Texas -- An Arlington man says not knowing Spanish earned him a ticket after police stopped him in an area in McKinney designated to accommodate day laborers.

He got stopped on Highway 5 and Louisiana Street in McKinney where signs are printed in both English and Spanish.

"Most people that come into this area are able to notice there are signs in English and Spanish as well," said Lt. Scott Brewer.

The Spanish language signs say 'Prohibido estacionar y parar' and have English signs above them or facing another direction that say 'No parking, standing or stopping.'

"It helps out in that they stay away from your property," said Jesse Raymundo of Magna Craft Furniture, a business in the area.

Raymundo said the bilingual signs make it clear to everyone where day laborers and employers should meet.

"People now speak both languages and some people only speak one so it kind of helps out," he said.

McKinney city officials said it has no plans to change its policy or signs.

"For us, it's a quality of life issue. We know that they're opportunities here, we've just taken the appropriate steps, we think, to make it go safely," Brewer said.

401 WriterMom  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:15:08pm

re: #398 Silhouette

Oh for the love of PAT.

Hahahaha.

402 mama winger  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:15:41pm

re: #389 alegrias

The government has taken the place of fathers, and of God.

403 patrickafir  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:15:45pm

Not just the UK, all of Europe. The worship of secular statism, untenable welfare entitlements, and a complete failure to reproduce (compared to Muslim hyper-reproduction) has made this inevitable. And they hate us because we didn't hop onto this suicide train with them (even though we've footed the bill for their defense since WWII). This is one fire that the U.S. won't be able to pull Europe's butt out of.

404 yma o hyd  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:16:06pm

re: #294 jorline

Please do not let the European and other MSM give you this false impression of what the people in the various European countries think!

After all - you're not taking at face value what you read in your MSM!

405 mama winger  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:16:46pm

re: #398 Silhouette

Please, no "male-only" names. Try to choose a gender-neutral one that also reflects many cultures respresented here today. Or at least one that doesn't sound white.

hahahahaa ! Next time I might use Lee or sumpin :)

406 amphibian  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:16:55pm

re: #133 Ringo the Gringo

A friend of mine in New Zealand tells me that Brits are immigrating down there in such numbers that the Kiwis are worried that in 30 years New Zealand will be British!

I thought the Kiwis were already known as "South Sea Poms"?

407 formercorpsman  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:17:04pm

re: #383 ajmurray

No aj.

Representing a different point of view?

You jumped in, threw bombs, and were called on it.

If you think Ireland has anything to gain, by having the U.K. become an Islamic state, say so.

408 republic  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:17:05pm

re: #386 Widow'smight

In a fight between the ACLU and the God of Abraham (not the Pilsbury crescent one), I'll bet on Emmanuel. My point was that by removing Crosses from public places, which were symbols of our great Christian heritage, they have not hurt any Christians ability to worship.
Christianity to me is a personal relationship, and the ACLU believes they can destroy Christianity by removing crosses. In my opinion, Anyone who is marginally Christian will be more apt to pursue Christ than reject him because of a bunch of little Twits in the ACLU.

Fighting Evil is a good thing, I do it every day while raising my 3 girsl and loving my wife. But no one but me can fight the evil that lurks in me, and that's the most important struggle. The ability to replace self with selflessness and boldly face all evil you face.

Courage isn't an absense of fear, rather an absense of self.

Onward Christian soldiers. Sing it Mama Winger.


I agree.

409 freetoken  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:17:09pm

I'm surprised some of you haven't yet blamed Darwin... he was, after all, English and his ideas certainly knocked the legs out from under some of the teachings of the Church of England.

410 eschew_obfuscation  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:17:19pm

re: #383 ajmurray

You guys get all uppity, don't ya, when someone presents a different point of view? Let me tell you something: I was born and raised in Ireland. My granmother fought in the 1916 rising against their British masters, knew Patrick Pearse who was executed by the British for leading the rebellion, knew Kevin Barry who was hung at 18 years of age because he would not tell the names of others. To the clown who asked why I now speak English the answer is because the Brits banned the Irish language, jailed those who dared speak it and destroyed manuscripts and books written in it. I have no pity for the current state of affairs in England.

And, yes, two posts since August. I don't surf the Internet all day. I have a job. You might want to try it sometime. 'Tis a pity that the number of posts would be considered a badge of honor. Seems to me a sign of intellectual decay.

Here in the states, we had plenty of ancestors abused and killed by the British in our Revolutionary War.......and yet, we manage to have Great Britain as one of our staunchest allies......we don't sit around whining about how we were wronged.

Grow up!

411 Ma Sands  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:17:37pm

re: #193 mama winger

:) This has been the longest 1 1/2 weeks in my life.....almost..... :)

Welcome home.

412 nyc redneck  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:17:38pm

re: #139 MandyManners

winston churchill was a great man. i agree that a nation can't lose it's courage in one generation. i think the brits are going to get their second wind.

413 EC Marm  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:17:41pm

re: #400 BGB!
TFK mentioned that this morning but didn't have a link.
You bailed on your old nic, I see.
BDS finally gotcha?

414 WriterMom  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:17:51pm

Blame Darwin!

Yes-now the thread is going to get interesting.

I'M LEAVING!

415 Wishbone  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:17:59pm

re: #383 ajmurray

You're another one who thinks we should be forever apologising for our past. Harbour your grievance if you will, that's your right. Just don't expect us to give too much of a toss about it.

Does the Irish language no longer exist then?. Hardly, inasmuch as it's now only spoken by a minority. What you really mean is that you blame us 'cos you were too lazy to fucking learn it.

416 mama winger  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:18:03pm

re: #386 Widow'smight

Onward Christian soldiers. Sing it Mama Winger.

Oh my. that wouldn't be prudent.

417 mama winger  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:19:15pm

re: #411 Ma Sands

:) This has been the longest 1 1/2 weeks in my life.....almost..... :)

Welcome home.

Awww, thanks Ma. Good to be back. Although I can only stay online a couple of more minutes. How are you?

418 unreconstructed rebel  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:19:27pm

re: #267 mama winger

Mama Winger,

With all due respect, the flag you show is a variant of one of many "christian" church or denominational flags.

After all, the Union Jack is a composite of the Flag of St George (England) and the Flag of St Andrew (Scotland).

But, thanks for the pic. Never saw it called that before.

419 Peacekeeper  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:20:00pm

2040
The US Destroyer Johnson was damaged earlier today in a collision with the UIK Warship HMS Jenin in an incident that highlights rising tensions between the two naval powers.
Ever since the election of the English Islamic Party to power in 2033, tensions have continued to increase. In particular they have been stoked by the United Islamic Kingdom's claims to Canada and Australia and New Zealand, not mention the Prime Minister's call to "wipe Israel from the map".

420 republic  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:20:03pm

I have not yet seen a thread that talked of religion, as this one today, that by now hadn't turned into a pie throwing session.

LGF Rocks!

421 Ma Sands  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:20:31pm

re: #417 mama winger

Fine, now that you are around..... :)

422 alegrias  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:20:47pm

re: #402 mama winger

The government has taken the place of fathers, and of God.

* * *
Another thing I liked about Mitt Romney was he said FATHERS were important to families. DUH, one might say, but right now we have a candidate who has so many male surrogate father figures, he can't remember their relationship to him, nor name them nor recall what they did where.

Strong muscular father figures who preserve protect & defend their families, in the Western tradition, are a good thing for society.

423 bulwrk  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:20:59pm

re: #383 ajmurray

I have no pity for the current state of affairs in England.


Ireland is right down the street and you're next.

424 J.S.  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:21:19pm

re: #368 jcm

I just finished reading "The Genius of America" (I recommend the book to everyone)...and, you know, I really don't think the American experience can be repeated anywhere else in the world...America is unique...(imo, the most fantastic, marvelous government without parallel). Here in Canada -- we have a parliamentary system -- and it's a totally different form of governance...(I actually think it would be to the determent of Canada to try to emulate a U.S. system -- such as to try to put in place a U.S. style senate, etc.; it wouldn't work...)

425 markx  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:21:37pm

re: #361 cookielady

Sweetiepie, I will bring sandwiches, and then I will bring it to the enemy. I am woman, I can cook AND shoot!

I don't doubt you a bit.

My eldest daughter is a better shot with a .38 than me.
For some reason I can out shoot her with a 9mm though.

I haven't started taking my youngest daughter to the range yet. But she will go when she is older.

Like I said, it was just a joke. :- )

426 Silhouette  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:21:55pm

re: #383 ajmurray

We understand that the Irish have issues with the Brits.

I still tell you that you really would much rather live under the worst British tyranny than ANYTHING the caliphate is going to throw at you.

(And don't pull the "gee, you don't allow dissention" victim card. Your comment was allowed, and so were our dozen or so responses.)

427 Wishbone  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:22:05pm

re: #404 yma o hyd

Probably a stupid question and I could be wrong, but can I take it your a Taffy mate?

428 Killgore Trout  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:22:41pm

re: #414 WriterMom

The Protocols of the Elders of Darwin!

429 Widow'smight  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:22:45pm

re: #385 Killgore Trout

I agree with BDVM, were you on the road to Damascus lately? Go blind for a couple of days?

The things/people that are the most precious to me are those that are different from the world I see around me, not the ones conformed to it.

430 mama winger  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:23:01pm

re: #418 unreconstructed rebel

With all due respect, the flag you show is a variant of one of many "christian" church or denominational flags.

Is it? I didn't realize that. It's what we always called the Christian flag at the ol'timey toetappin Israel-lovin hymn singin Baptist church. :)

431 alegrias  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:23:34pm

re: #423 bulwrk

I have no pity for the current state of affairs in England.


Ireland is right down the street and you're next.

* * *
Ireland is full of radical violent ideologuers whose first language isn't Irish or English.

432 markx  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:24:02pm

re: #407 formercorpsman


If you think Ireland has anything to gain, by having the U.K. become an Islamic state, say so.

Ouch!

433 mama winger  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:24:36pm

gotta run - bbl

434 quickjustice  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:25:05pm

re: #383 ajmurray

No doubt the Irish Catholics were badly treated by the English. Swift's legendary satire, "A Modest Proposal" [for controlling the population of Ireland], which sarcastically proposed that the English Parliament, reticent to provide any relief to the Irish farmers suffering from famine, enact laws permitting the Irish to boil their infants to feed the starving Irish people, was written almost three hundred years ago.

But Ireland suffered even more from the invasions of pagan Norsemen who pillaged the Irish countryside and plundered the sacred treasures of the Irish monasteries. I'd respectfully suggest that the West, including the Irish, must pull together to defang extremist Muslims and radical Islam.

435 Widow'smight  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:25:27pm

re: #399 WriterMom


They are also not 100 % committed to Israel like the Evangelicals are. 10% maybe?

436 yma o hyd  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:25:56pm

re: #353 Who Watches the Watchmen?

And did those feet in ancient time,
Walk upon England’s mountains green:
And was the holy Lamb of God,
On England’s pleasant pastures seen!

And did the Countenance Divine,
Shine forth upon our clouded hills?
And was Jerusalem builded here,
Among these dark Satanic Mills?

Bring me my Bow of burning gold;
Bring me my Arrows of desire:
Bring me my Spear: O clouds unfold:
Bring me my Chariot of fire!

I will not cease from Mental Fight,
Nor Shall my sword sleep in my hand:
Till we have built Jerusalem,
In England’s green & pleasant Land.

Link:

437 Occasional Reader  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:27:14pm

re: #383 ajmurray

k

new Kevin Barry who was hung at 18 years of age

Um, I think you mean "hanged", there, Mr. or Ms. Intellectual Decay.

Oh, and I have ancestors who fought in the Easter Rebellion, too, so can I get all indignant and fist-in-the-air like you? Please? It's just so COOL and everything.

438 GogleddCymru  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:27:30pm

It doesn't help when Jimmy Carter yaps at the Hay bash in my country. Please take him back unto your bosoms, cousins!

439 Iron Fist  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:27:53pm

re: #271 alegrias

Charles got a hat tip over at the [Link: www.weeklystandard...] blog item about WashPost factchecking candidate's WWII "family legends"!

Also there, good news about a McCain-Romney ticket.

Romney's impressive as a man who gets what we're fighting here, plus he's a man of strong faith who was able to transmit this faith to his children and grandchildren AND who was willing to electronically bug mosques in his state of Massachusetts if they were espousing violence.


They're mosques. If they are preaching the Koran, they are espousing violence. It's in the Koran.

440 WriterMom  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:29:08pm

re: #435 Widow'smight

Lefty churches loathe Israel. They adore Palestinians.

441 jorline  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:30:16pm

re: #396 jcm

Sniff, Sniff....
Is there a smell in here all of a sudden?

It's ajmurray

442 wolfie  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:30:20pm

re: #438 GogleddCymru

It doesn't help when Jimmy Carter yaps at the Hay bash in my country. Please take him back unto your bosoms, cousins!

No thanks!
But there are more than a few Code Pinko Boobs-Not-Bombs crazies who'd volunteer, I'm sure!

443 Iron Fist  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:30:28pm

re: #383 ajmurray,

IRA? Or just a supporter thereof?

Interesting.

444 WriterMom  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:30:53pm

re: #422 alegrias

Oooh-can this be the muscular men who stand up for their families thread?

445 Widow'smight  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:30:54pm

re: #416 mama winger

I'll sing with you, and we'll do "On a hill far away" too. Maybe I better get my wife and 2 of my princesses who can sing to drown me out though.

446 WriterMom  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:31:40pm

re: #403 patrickafir

IIRC, Steyn has called this the upside-down triangle. Demographic reality is a bitch.

447 mikalm  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:31:48pm

re: #418 unreconstructed rebel

Speaking of flags: from your icon, I take it you're Cymric?

448 WriterMom  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:32:25pm

re: #331 quickjustice

Don't forget Melanie Phillips.

449 yma o hyd  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:34:15pm

re: #427 Wishbone

Not a stupid question at all - and the answer is yep, mun!

450 Occasional Reader  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:34:34pm

Good thing that Ireland is mostly populated with optimistic go-getters, instead of bitter sods like ajmurray. That explains how they're now the tenth richest country in the world (per capita, PPP). Oh, but wait, they're ground under the bootheel of imperalist Britain, so that simply can't be right, can it?

451 SpiritOf1683  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:34:36pm

It will be over my dead body that this will happen, even though I would be 77 if still alive then. We must never let our World War II veteran grandads down and let our country succumb to Islamic tyranny - a tyranny 100 times worse than the Nazi tyranny they fought so hard to keep at bay, then, with help from our allies, turn the war in our favour against foes who were immensely more powerful in real terms militarily and economically than those we face today. And if we cannot defeat the Islamists as resoundly as Charles Martel and John Sobieski did during their day and prevent us being sucked into the black hole of a caliphate, we in Britain will have failed our grandfathers and will hardly deserve to survive. Unlike the youngsters of today, I haven't succumbed to the mental illness of political correctness.

452 Widow'smight  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:34:44pm

re: #440 WriterMom


Probably has something to do with them not studying Scripture and forgetting the covanents God made with the Jewish people. Unless someone changed it, Abraham was asleep when God passed between the sacrificed animals. Nothing was required of the Jewish people to have that land.

453 Genosaurer  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:35:27pm

re: #97 Ojoe

These all hang in the balance.

Canterbury Cathedral

Durham Cathedral

Salisbury Cathedral

They'll make very pretty mosques, I'm sure.

454 sparrowlake  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:37:11pm

re: #383 ajmurray

My grandmother fought in the 1916 rising against their British masters, knew Patrick Pearse who was executed by the British for leading the rebellion, knew Kevin Barry who was hung at 18 years of age because he would not tell the names of others. To the clown who asked why I now speak English the answer is because the Brits banned the Irish language, jailed those who dared speak it and destroyed manuscripts and books written in it. I have no pity for the current state of affairs in England.

Have you been clinging to your hatred of Britain for many years? Your Granny certainly lived in revolutionary times, but hasn't your family had enough time now to get over it? The Republic of Ireland has been independent and doing just fine for quite a while. The outdated, whining, backward, self-absorbed, hate-filled shit that you are peddling here reminds me of the attitudes of some other perpetually hate-blinkered murderous victim groups in the Middle East. And unless I am mistaken they even got some weapons and training from some of your countrymen too, many of whom have no love loss for the State of Israel.

455 WriterMom  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:37:50pm

re: #452 Widow'smight

I hope someday you get to visit Israel and see for yourself what the Jews did with that land...it's a love story.

456 Wishbone  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:38:03pm

re: #449 yma o hyd

Well I had a few pointers. I found the English translation to yma o hyd on Dafydd Iwan's site. Very interesting.

Scouse meself, mate.

457 nyc redneck  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:38:25pm

re: #423 bulwrk

I have no pity for the current state of affairs in England.


Ireland is right down the street and you're next.

very important point.

458 jcm  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:38:33pm

re: #424 J.S.

I just finished reading "The Genius of America" (I recommend the book to everyone)...and, you know, I really don't think the American experience can be repeated anywhere else in the world...America is unique...(imo, the most fantastic, marvelous government without parallel). Here in Canada -- we have a parliamentary system -- and it's a totally different form of governance...(I actually think it would be to the determent of Canada to try to emulate a U.S. system -- such as to try to put in place a U.S. style senate, etc.; it wouldn't work...)

That may be true, we are based on adopting on IDEA (see Declaration of Independance). While most countries are based on a national identity.

Canada, Australia and New Zealand are the closest to us in our manner of creation, the rest of the new world coming up behind that.

I do think the core IDEA, rule of law, equal treatment can be exported.

459 alegrias  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:38:50pm

What do you all think about that Czech former president Vaclav something or other, willing to debate Church of Green Pope Al Gore over his imposition of that new state religion, global warming/climate change/environmentalism anti-humanism?

460 Widow'smight  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:38:51pm

re: #451 SpiritOf1683

60,000 casualties leading up to Dunkirk should be enough right there.

461 SagamoreGal  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:39:48pm

Perfect example of when a church returns to the "old school" ways, the empty pews start to fill up again.


[Link: articles.lancasteronline.com...]

My city - Lancaster, PA. I live in the historic downtown section and have made it a habit to attend all of the beautiful, historical churches in downtown (and there are quite a few) plus the not-so-beautiful. I grew up a Baptist (not so easy to find a Baptist church in PA) but have spent most of my adult life wondering around other Protestant churches where ever I have lived. Lancaster is full of radical moonbatty, leftwing Lutheran, Presbyterian, and Episcopalian churches. (Don't believe the press that this area is full of right-wing Christians. Hardly the case. Even the Mennonites are mostly moonbatty lefties. ) So, I started attending one of the Catholic churches downtown (not the one in this article). I have attended all of the Catholic churches in downtown and find them to be the most family-oriented, vigorous, "alive" churches in the area. You don't find guitar-strumming, Kumbaya priests in the Catholic churches in this area.

462 ajmurray  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:40:13pm

Girls,

I'd really love to sit and spar with you but I really do have a business to run so I can't read and respond to all these posts. Just so you know, I consider the spread of Islam to be the single greatest threat to our civilization. I am disappointed that GWB hasn't done enough to lead the nation in this fight. Admittedly, our appalling media is as much to blame for the lack of public awareness about this evil. GWB has probably done about as much as he could have done considering the circumstances. It frightens me to death that BHO may become president of this nation. It will only hasten our inevitable destruction, as he will not only fight Islam he will willingly surrender to it, as England has done. I might admire an England with the likes of a modern day Churchill, one ready to fight on the beaches. But the English today are just rolling over with nary a whimper. What's to admire. More-so, what's to fight for.

I read LGF several times a week (Charles could probably provide you with some stats since you all seem so enthralled reading statistical tea leaves) but I seldom read the comments because, well, they are generally so inane. But have a great time if this is how you enjoy yourselves. Seems rather purposeless to me but what do I know?

Anyway, I got a company to run and 58 employees whose needs are more important than this thread, so have a wonderful afternoon and keep up the good fight.

463 yma o hyd  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:40:26pm

re: #456 Wishbone

Good song, that - inofficial National Anthem!
Scouser - well, did you have holidays in Rhyl, perhaps (just thinking of Ann Robinson here ...)?
How's the Culture Festival going?

464 tfc3rid  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:40:31pm

re: #295 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

Still have the American flag & Vatican flag displayed in every Catholic church I've been in.

My Church shockingly has both the American Flag and the Papal Flag in the sanctuary...

465 Silhouette  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:41:04pm

As for having "no pity" for England, as much as I hate the French for working with Saddam, giving his Baathists passports after our invasion had begun, being complicit in the Oil for Palaces, letting their Jewish population be hunted, and otherwise being surrender monkeys, I root for them when it comes to the Car-B-Q wars.

Better stinky, rude, terrorist-apologists than terrorists.

466 Widow'smight  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:42:18pm

re: #455 WriterMom

I've seen pictures, it looks real perty.

Being a avid gardener, I would appreciate it. You should see what our acre property looks like right now. Course, it does rain just a little bit more here in SE PA than it does Israel.

My Rhodedendrons and Peonies are blooming right now, and my Golden Retriever is nugging me for some luvin.

467 SpiritOf1683  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:44:13pm

re: #360 ishabibble

You sound just like my dear, departed Nan. Heaven knows, she had her reasons, probably much more than most who came from Ireland.
If she were here today, staring into the face of death cult Islam, she would fight alongside the Brits to the death. I know she would, she was the strongest person I've ever known. And she knew good from evil. Injustices, no matter how appalling, do not trump pure evil.


He sounds even more like Sheikh Abu Hamza.

468 Widow'smight  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:44:20pm

re: #461 SagamoreGal


I grew up, and lived in Ephrata many years. Mom and Dad still live there, as does my sister. I'm near Maple Grove now.

469 Occasional Reader  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:44:22pm

re: #462 ajmurray

Anyway, I got a company to run and 58 employees

David J. O'Schwartz? Is that you?

470 jcm  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:44:55pm

re: #459 alegrias

What do you all think about that Czech former president Vaclav something or other, willing to debate Church of Green Pope Al Gore over his imposition of that new state religion, global warming/climate change/environmentalism anti-humanism?

I posted his article up in spinoffs.

Klaus would leave Gore curled in a fetal position whimpering for his mommy.

Gore hasn't the cajones, facts or wit to do it.

471 formercorpsman  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:45:07pm

re: #461 SagamoreGal

I think I know the church.

If it is the one, it is beautiful.

And yes, for such a small city, it does have it's quota for moonbats.

However, Steakout was a good sandwich place.

472 alegrias  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:45:20pm

re: #462 ajmurray

Girls,

I'd really love to sit and spar with you but I really do have a business to run so I can't read and respond to all these posts. Just so you know, I consider the spread of Islam to be the single greatest threat to our civilization. I am disappointed that GWB hasn't done enough to lead the nation in this fight. Admittedly, our appalling media is as much to blame for the lack of public awareness about this evil. GWB has probably done about as much as he could have done considering the circumstances. It frightens me to death that BHO may become president of this nation. It will only hasten our inevitable destruction, as he will not only fight Islam he will willingly surrender to it, as England has done. I might admire an England with the likes of a modern day Churchill, one ready to fight on the beaches. But the English today are just rolling over with nary a whimper. What's to admire. More-so, what's to fight for.

I read LGF several times a week (Charles could probably provide you with some stats since you all seem so enthralled reading statistical tea leaves) but I seldom read the comments because, well, they are generally so inane. But have a great time if this is how you enjoy yourselves. Seems rather purposeless to me but what do I know?

Anyway, I got a company to run and 58 employees whose needs are more important than this thread, so have a wonderful afternoon and keep up the good fight.

* * *
Thank you for fighting the good fight in your own way, and for running your successful business. God bless.

473 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:45:59pm

re: #464 tfc3rid

My Church shockingly has both the American Flag and the Papal Flag in the sanctuary...

I was on a Catholic Dating site & some confused liberal wanted to know why there was an American flag in every (American) Church. She felt it was "exclusionary."

474 Ojoe  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:46:09pm

1887

From Clee to heaven the beacon burns,
The shires have seen it plain,
From north and south the sign returns
And beacons burn again.

Look left, look right, the hills are bright,
The dales are light between,
Because 'tis fifty years to-night
That God has saved the Queen.

Now, when the flame they watch not towers
About the soil they trod,
Lads, we'll remember friends of ours
Who shared the work with God.

To skies that knit their heartstrings right,
To fields that bred them brave,
The saviours come not home to-night:
Themselves they could not save.

It dawns in Asia, tombstones show
And Shropshire names are read;
And the Nile spills his overflow
Beside the Severn's dead.

We pledge in peace by farm and town
The Queen they served in war,
And fire the beacons up and down
The land they perished for.

"God save the Queen" we living sing,
From height to height 'tis heard;
And with the rest your voices ring,
Lads of the Fifty-third.

Oh, God will save her, fear you not:
Be you the men you've been,
Get you the sons your fathers got,
And God will save the Queen.

Alfred Edward Housman

475 jcm  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:46:13pm

re: #464 tfc3rid

My Church shockingly has both the American Flag and the Papal Flag in the sanctuary...

Shocked! I'm Shocked you believe in God and Country!
/

476 eschew_obfuscation  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:46:39pm

re: #459 alegrias

What do you all think about that Czech former president Vaclav something or other, willing to debate Church of Green Pope Al Gore over his imposition of that new state religion, global warming/climate change/environmentalism anti-humanism?

I'd love to see that show!

It would probably be one of the clearest demonstrations of the differences in liberal and conservative thought........wild assertions, doom & gloom, demands for immediate socialist action to hamper capitalism and give control to governments.......VS.......fact and science-based inquiry, conclusions, and rational action (or no action as warranted by the conclusions).

477 sparrowlake  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:46:42pm

re: #469 Occasional Reader

David J. O'Schwartz? Is that you?

That is my suspicion too. LOL.

478 WriterMom  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:47:20pm

re: #469 Occasional Reader

Yer killing me.

HAHAHAHHAHA

479 alegrias  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:48:50pm

Here's someone "Born Fightin'" gone Hollywood--now with rouged cheeks, henna'd hair, lifted eyelids...

Virginia Dem. Senator Jim Webb attacking McCain, from the left, where he panders to leftists and pretends to care more for the troops, by bringing them home WITHOUT VICTORY.

Jimmy, we hardly know ye, now gone all Djhimmi Carter on us.

Reagan is rolling over in his grave at this former former Navy secretary, though for only a brief stint.

[Link: www.washtimes.com...]

480 eschew_obfuscation  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:48:53pm

re: #462 ajmurray

Girls,

I'd really love to sit and spar with you but I really do have a business to run so I can't read and respond to all these posts. Just so you know, I consider the spread of Islam to be the single greatest threat to our civilization. I am disappointed that GWB hasn't done enough to lead the nation in this fight. Admittedly, our appalling media is as much to blame for the lack of public awareness about this evil. GWB has probably done about as much as he could have done considering the circumstances. It frightens me to death that BHO may become president of this nation. It will only hasten our inevitable destruction, as he will not only fight Islam he will willingly surrender to it, as England has done. I might admire an England with the likes of a modern day Churchill, one ready to fight on the beaches. But the English today are just rolling over with nary a whimper. What's to admire. More-so, what's to fight for.

I read LGF several times a week (Charles could probably provide you with some stats since you all seem so enthralled reading statistical tea leaves) but I seldom read the comments because, well, they are generally so inane. But have a great time if this is how you enjoy yourselves. Seems rather purposeless to me but what do I know?

Anyway, I got a company to run and 58 employees whose needs are more important than this thread, so have a wonderful afternoon and keep up the good fight.

Yeah.....don't waste your time on the unwashed.......arrogant asshat!

481 tfc3rid  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:50:22pm

re: #473 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

I was on a Catholic Dating site & some confused liberal wanted to know why there was an American flag in every (American) Church. She felt it was "exclusionary."

Good, good... I know someone who says we should say God Bless America but God Bless All the Nations!

482 yma o hyd  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:51:26pm

re: #462 ajmurray

Well - nice to have met you, and glad you run a business and look after 58 employees.
One thing which I find odd - but mind, you're not alone in this! - is this longing for a second Churchill.

Are we all so bereft of ideas, are we all become such sheep that we need to bleat for a master?
Are we really incapable of doing things ourselves?
Do we really have to wait until someone calls us?
Are we to give up without a fight just because there is no second Churchill?

Why wait - why not put our hands to the plough, do what we can, instead of wringing our hands and wail?

We can all learn - we can all e-mail our friends and family - we can all talk to our neighbours, talk in shops, wherever: we can achieve much more where we are because we are known - we don't need to do a leftie organisational set-up before anybody is allowed to do something.

483 Omni  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:51:31pm

I guess America will have to evacuate all the nukes currently owned by the UK when it is obviously unstoppable just like with South Africa.

On the bright side of the Britain's collapse to the barbarian horde, America will get a good chunk of the worthy English who flee and they will bring an awareness of what happened that may prevent a similar fate in their new homeland

484 jcm  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:52:29pm

re: #480 eschew_obfuscation

Yeah.....don't waste your time on the unwashed.......arrogant asshat!

Mommy is calling, somebody's been in the basement too long.

485 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:52:38pm

re: #481 tfc3rid

Good, good... I know someone who says we should say God Bless America but God Bless All the Nations!

You might as well just say "bless us all" as the only prayer - wouldn't want to be exclusionary by asking God to bless your family & friends.

486 alegrias  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:53:18pm

re: #480 eschew_obfuscation

* * *
C'mon, he admitted he's a kind of lizard, busy running his business, doesn't want the radical violent ideology to win, despite his earlier emotional outburst against England.

I can respect that. We need allies who agree on the fundamentals.

487 jorline  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:54:59pm

re: #404 yma o hyd

Please do not let the European and other MSM give you this false impression of what the people in the various European countries think!

After all - you're not taking at face value what you read in your MSM!


yma...if I read the MSM, it's with a grain of salt. My wife was an exchange student in Sweden for a year and we have maintained that relationship for almost thirty years. I've seen the change there first hand since we make frequent trips back to Sweden. The family members in Sweden are very concerned about the changes they've seen over the years. I think they have a better pulse than the MSM.

488 J.S.  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:55:35pm

re: #458 jcm

Indeed...The Rule of Law, equality of citizens, etc. these should be the ideals to strive toward (and Canada does do this), but what really throws the monkey-wrench into a system such as Canada's is the idea that Canada was founded by differing "peoples" (hence, we've got the British, the French, and the native peoples)...(it becomes a balancing act...and then when multiculturalism as an Official State policy is thrown in, along with fervent Islamism on the rise, it gets scary...)

489 eschew_obfuscation  Wed, May 28, 2008 1:56:48pm

re: #486 alegrias

* * *
C'mon, he admitted he's a kind of lizard, busy running his business, doesn't want the radical violent ideology to win, despite his earlier emotional outburst against England.

I can respect that. We need allies who agree on the fundamentals.

I agree with the part about radical, violent, ideology......but to drop in, drop a few bombs, insult the group, and then pretend he's too busy to follow through with what he started, is immature at best.....arrogant in my view.

490 jcm  Wed, May 28, 2008 2:00:11pm

re: #488 J.S.

Indeed...The Rule of Law, equality of citizens, etc. these should be the ideals to strive toward (and Canada does do this), but what really throws the monkey-wrench into a system such as Canada's is the idea that Canada was founded by differing "peoples" (hence, we've got the British, the French, and the native peoples)...(it becomes a balancing act...and then when multiculturalism as an Official State policy is thrown in, along with fervent Islamism on the rise, it gets scary...)

That is the fly, we are headed that way also. That "differing" or "special class" gets a different interpretation of exception to THE LAW. Fortunately we have the "equal protection" clause of the 14th Amend. But that is being undermined.

We you started saying equal under law except.....
Trouble ensues.

491 wolfie  Wed, May 28, 2008 2:01:00pm

re: #479 alegrias

Jimmy Webb wants to be Veep.
A lot of pundits think Obama will pick either him or Mark Warner....w/ hopes of getting VA's electoral votes. (Barf.)

I don't think Warner will do it. He's a shoo-in for the Senate, so why pass that up running on a risky ticket? Webb, OTOH,............

PS- I must say I am impressed w/ McCain's stand on this veterans' bill. He is doing the right thing despite the political cost.

492 J.S.  Wed, May 28, 2008 2:01:03pm

Oh, and if Britain "goes" (ie, is Islamified), I'd say we here in Canada are absolute goners...(seriously, I think Britain has a better chance to pull away from Islamification -- given Britain's history, traditions, etc. -- much more so than Canada...)

493 jcm  Wed, May 28, 2008 2:01:35pm

re: #489 eschew_obfuscation

I agree with the part about radical, violent, ideology......but to drop in, drop a few bombs, insult the group, and then pretend he's too busy to follow through with what he started, is immature at best.....arrogant in my view.

Ding Ding!

494 buzzdroid  Wed, May 28, 2008 2:02:36pm

i regularly see female police officers in London wear the full hijab whilst in uniform.

the islamic state has arrived already.

can you Yanks write to your congressmen and pass some sort of law to allow the rest of us Anglo-Saxons immigrate to your great country? Please! before its too late?

495 Wishbone  Wed, May 28, 2008 2:06:06pm

re: #463 yma o hyd

Rhyl?..... Nope.... If it was Wales, it was Anglesey every time. Loved climbing around that coastline, only stopping to watch the hawks out of Valley buzzing past. Great memories of Ynys Môn from my youth.

The culture festival is going swimmingly, only it would probably go a whole lot better if they stopped digging up every road in the city centre. Place is a bloody building site.

496 Dark_Falcon  Wed, May 28, 2008 2:06:58pm

I found the newspaper's contact info informative: "Religious Intelligence Ltd". As with all good intel reports, the key is how we use it.

497 eschew_obfuscation  Wed, May 28, 2008 2:06:59pm

re: #494 buzzdroid

i regularly see female police officers in London wear the full hijab whilst in uniform.

the islamic state has arrived already.

can you Yanks write to your congressmen and pass some sort of law to allow the rest of us Anglo-Saxons immigrate to your great country? Please! before its too late?

Hey....just run across our southern border.....I hear it's wide open!

McCain will soon be president and there will be amnesty for all ;~)

On a more serious note.......We'd love to have you!

498 jorline  Wed, May 28, 2008 2:08:09pm

#462 ajmurray

I am disappointed that GWB hasn't done enough to lead the nation in this fight.

I thought the rest of the world was pissing and moaning about everything he has done. I'm so damn confused....

499 buzzdroid  Wed, May 28, 2008 2:08:51pm

re: #383 ajmurray

so what. my great grand uncle fought with the Germans against the British in Mesopotamia, and then went back and killed some more Brits during the black'n'tan war.


so fucking what.

we're in a different sort of war now. a war for the defense of western civilisation against Islam and their allies in the socialist left.

and our allies in that war come from across the Western world.

500 jcm  Wed, May 28, 2008 2:09:10pm

re: #494 buzzdroid

i regularly see female police officers in London wear the full hijab whilst in uniform.

the islamic state has arrived already.

can you Yanks write to your congressmen and pass some sort of law to allow the rest of us Anglo-Saxons immigrate to your great country? Please! before its too late?

WTF?
You know how easy it would be to use that thing to defeat an officer?
When I did LE training we got special instruction down to watch bands that could be used as a handle and lever against us.

501 sparrowlake  Wed, May 28, 2008 2:09:41pm

re: #486 alegrias

* * *
C'mon, he admitted he's a kind of lizard, busy running his business, doesn't want the radical violent ideology to win, despite his earlier emotional outburst against England.

I can respect that. We need allies who agree on the fundamentals.

Yes, but for someone who claims to be anti-Islamist he sure writes off our allies easily. And not just in his initial comment - he kept repeating it. And then he waffled on Dubya.
BTW, the 58 employee comment is IMO either outright bullshit or meant as a putdown.

502 eschew_obfuscation  Wed, May 28, 2008 2:09:50pm

re: #498 jorline

#462 ajmurray

I am disappointed that GWB hasn't done enough to lead the nation in this fight.

I thought the rest of the world was pissing and moaning about everything he has done. I'm so damn confused....

Yeah, and don't forget.....we need to be highly concerned with what the world thinks of us......'cause, by golly, we want to be liked!
/sarc

503 buzzdroid  Wed, May 28, 2008 2:10:13pm

re: #497 eschew_obfuscation

trouble is - i'd have to get a sun tan first, and learn spanish, then pay some drug cartel to smuggle me across the border , for which i might be killed or robbed by another drug cartel.


would rather just turn up at JFK airport and claim asylum.

504 Wishbone  Wed, May 28, 2008 2:10:17pm

A little OT maybe, but I have to ask this of you Yanks......

What the hell is going on lately with your National Anthem?

Not the anthem....... The buggers singing it. The girl who sang at the beginning of teh England USA friendly did the same as a few I've heard: Went all Mariah warble-her-thrippeny-bits-off Carey with it.

It's great to hear when it's done properly...... But this girl murdered it.

505 buzzdroid  Wed, May 28, 2008 2:11:21pm

re: #500 jcm

"bands"? sorry. maybe thats an american phrase - what are "band" - like scarves and stuff? you got training in how to grab something like that off somebody and use it against them?

506 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Wed, May 28, 2008 2:12:13pm

re: #504 Wishbone

A little OT maybe, but I have to ask this of you Yanks......

What the hell is going on lately with your National Anthem?

Not
the anthem....... The buggers singing it. The girl who sang at the
beginning of teh England USA friendly did the same as a few I've heard:
Went all Mariah warble-her-thrippeny-bits-off Carey with it.

It's great to hear when it's done properly...... But this girl murdered it.

Don't blame us - you're the ones who sent us Simon Cowell!

507 Wishbone  Wed, May 28, 2008 2:13:45pm

re: #505 buzzdroid

Leverage in combat Buzz. You'd be amazed at the control you can exert over someone's frame and movement if they give you something to twist or pull.

508 eschew_obfuscation  Wed, May 28, 2008 2:13:51pm

re: #504 Wishbone

A little OT maybe, but I have to ask this of you Yanks......

What the hell is going on lately with your National Anthem?

Not the anthem....... The buggers singing it. The girl who sang at the beginning of teh England USA friendly did the same as a few I've heard: Went all Mariah warble-her-thrippeny-bits-off Carey with it.

It's great to hear when it's done properly...... But this girl murdered it.

It's an 'artist' kind of thing.....Steve Perry ruined it at the Indianapolis 500 race a few years back......then there was Rosanne Barr at a football game wrecking the anthem then spitting on the ground....

It's really refreshing when someone sings it straight/well......like Josh Groban did at some event I saw (Super Bowl?)....

509 jorline  Wed, May 28, 2008 2:14:44pm

re: #494 buzzdroid

i regularly see female police officers in London wear the full hijab whilst in uniform.

the islamic state has arrived already.

can you Yanks write to your congressmen and pass some sort of law to allow the rest of us Anglo-Saxons immigrate to your great country? Please! before its too late?

buzz, screw the law...you can swim across the river in south Texas without very many problems. Just bring a lot of water jugs when you cross the King Ranch and watch out for the rattlers.

510 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Wed, May 28, 2008 2:14:50pm
511 Wishbone  Wed, May 28, 2008 2:14:58pm

re: #506 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

Hehe..... I know..... I can't believe you fell for that. Looks like you're stuck with him.

No returns, no refunds :)

512 sparrowlake  Wed, May 28, 2008 2:15:01pm

I'd love to sit around and chat but I have 3,875 employees who are lined up outside my door waiting to thank me for being such a good boss.
Keep up the good fight.

513 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Wed, May 28, 2008 2:16:48pm

re: #511 Wishbone

Hehe..... I know..... I can't believe you fell for that. Looks like you're stuck with him.

No returns, no refunds :)

Apparently, there's a huge market in America for Brits yelling at us Yanks. Gordon Ramsey's got two hit cooking shows here.

514 buzzdroid  Wed, May 28, 2008 2:17:13pm

re: #507 Wishbone

ahh! got you. yeah - its a bit stupid to be wearing a hijab in police uniform on the violent streets of London alright.

then again, i think it works in the hijabed officers favour - gang members arent stupid. they DONT want their heads cut off by her relatives...

(there are big muslim gangs in britain... so i would guess that attacking a muslim police officer is big NO-NO.... as i said - the islamic state has already arrived...)

515 jcm  Wed, May 28, 2008 2:17:50pm

re: #505 buzzdroid

"bands"? sorry. maybe thats an american phrase - what are "band" - like scarves and stuff? you got training in how to grab something like that off somebody and use it against them?

Watch strap.
We learned both sides. Defense and offense. Bottom line for the officer is nothing loose that won't detach easily. Clip on tie for example. A watch can be grabbed on to and if it doesn't break easily it can be used against the officer. Male officers in the US tend to wear very short haircuts just so there is not enough to grab.

A damn head scarf? If it's wrapped around the neck, it would take nothing to get the officer on the ground.

516 Silhouette  Wed, May 28, 2008 2:18:29pm

re: #501 sparrowlake


BTW, the 58 employee comment is IMO either outright bullshit or meant as a putdown.

Of course it was, even if true. He was telling us what a successful, busy man he is, unlike those with time to post a lot.

The salutation "girls" was a putdown too. Because, you know, calling someone something inferior like a girl is an insult. (See also: high school boys' teams coaches)

Luckily, unlike our friend, I don't lack perspective and will choose him calling the men here "girls" from now to eternity over one day in "modern" Saudi Arabia.

517 buzzdroid  Wed, May 28, 2008 2:20:23pm

re: #511 Wishbone

good riddance to that man.

there's a place in hell reserved for that bastard - a pit of fire for those who commit the sin of "pride". which is the worst by the way...

read more here:
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

518 Da_Beerfreak  Wed, May 28, 2008 2:21:42pm

Some quick advice for #383 ajmurray:

If you haven't done so, coat your scales with a mixture of cement and asbestos. This offers the best protection during flame wars.

(I gave you an up ding for your willingness to jump in with both feet.)

// {;-)™

519 sparrowlake  Wed, May 28, 2008 2:21:53pm

re: #516 Silhouette

"girls" = "sweetie"? LOLOL.

520 buzzdroid  Wed, May 28, 2008 2:23:48pm

re: #515 jcm

yup - it was the full on hijab, all wrapped around the neck.


kind of makes the average public completely alienated from assisting the country in fighting Islamic fundementalism - because clearly, the UK is not engaged in any sort of war against the Jihadists.

they have jihadists in the police force instead.

521 LEGION  Wed, May 28, 2008 2:26:51pm

30 years and counting to GET THE HELL OUT OF ENGLAND! ABANDON COUNTRY!

522 Wishbone  Wed, May 28, 2008 2:27:21pm

re: #517 buzzdroid

I think Cowell's worst sin has to be saying 'polo neck' when asked which style of trousers he wanted.

523 amphibian  Wed, May 28, 2008 2:29:31pm

re: #438 GogleddCymru

It doesn't help when Jimmy Carter yaps at the Hay bash in my country. Please take him back unto your bosoms, cousins!

I don't want him. You can keep him.

(Oh, all right. I guess he's our mess after all.)

524 Alibaba  Wed, May 28, 2008 2:29:46pm

When you have the Archbishop of Canterbury defending sharia law, what can you expect? Plus Prince Charles kisses their boots.re: #2 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

525 buzzdroid  Wed, May 28, 2008 2:31:34pm

re: #524 Alibaba

the Bishop of Rochester aint too bad - he's on our side and wants to convert Muslims... then again, he's an immigrant.
the more i live in England the more i realise that the English have completely lost their way as a nation.

526 Watookal  Wed, May 28, 2008 2:33:50pm

I would not concern myself with England turning muslim, almost a third of all South-Koreans are Christians today. Christianity is also rapidly spreading in Russia and the old USSR states. And hang on to your hat, even in China Christianity is spreading like wild-fire.
Quite ironic to think in the end it will those 'commie bastards' and 'yellow-peril' people that will obliterate islam and save Europe and the USA.

527 FlyingTigress  Wed, May 28, 2008 2:38:58pm

re: #508 eschew_obfuscation

It's an 'artist' kind of thing.....Steve Perry ruined it at the Indianapolis 500 race a few years back......then there was Rosanne Barr at a football game wrecking the anthem then spitting on the ground....

It's really refreshing when someone sings it straight/well......like Josh Groban did at some event I saw (Super Bowl?)....

Actually, Roseanne's screech, then crotch-grab and spit-on-the-ground, was at a San Diego Padres game at 'the Murph'. It was a year or so after Joan Kroc sold the team to a group of investors that included, iirc, Tom Arnold.

528 alegrias  Wed, May 28, 2008 2:39:54pm

re: #521 LEGION

30 years and counting to GET THE HELL OUT OF ENGLAND! ABANDON COUNTRY!

* * *
That is so wrong to suggest, just now that the Conservatives have won big time, tossed out Red Ken the mayor of London, and several other lefties!

FIGHT for our countries is what we have to do, not abandoning ship.

Abandoning is appeasing and we wouldn't want England to go under, they are our "great uncles"~ with whom we fought totalitarians in WWII.

529 alegrias  Wed, May 28, 2008 2:40:55pm

re: #524 Alibaba

When you have the Archbishop of Canterbury defending sharia law, what can you expect? Plus Prince Charles kisses their boots.

* * *
Prince Harry his son was fighting Taliban in Helmand province, Afghanistan.

That's a man with fight left in him. We must shore him up & his "lads".

530 Wishbone  Wed, May 28, 2008 2:42:23pm

re: #525 buzzdroid

Told you mate....... Come up to Liverpool and get out on the ale. You'll forget all about that in a hurry :)

531 ploome hineni[deleted]  Wed, May 28, 2008 2:51:52pm
532 nyc redneck  Wed, May 28, 2008 2:53:20pm

re: #504 Wishbone

A little OT maybe, but I have to ask this of you Yanks......

What the hell is going on lately with your National Anthem?

Not the anthem....... The buggers singing it. The girl who sang at the beginning of teh England USA friendly did the same as a few I've heard: Went all Mariah warble-her-thrippeny-bits-off Carey with it.

It's great to hear when it's done properly...... But this girl murdered it.

did she at least remember the words?
lol

533 SagamoreGal  Wed, May 28, 2008 2:53:37pm

Memo to all non-Muslim Brits:

Go to your local video store to rent "Mrs Miniver". Watch it several times.

God Save the Queen!

534 ajmurray  Wed, May 28, 2008 3:03:25pm

Just wanted to clarify a few things:

No, I am not immature. Yes,I am arrogant. Sometimes I think I'd rather be immature than arrogant, but I have too much gray hair to play immature very well.

No, the 58 employees thing is not a lie. Yes, it was intended to be a putdown. Arrogance can be a good or bad thing. Used properly, it can pay rewards. Used odorously, it can be off putting. The trick is to be fragrantly arrogant, something I have yet to master. Working on it, though.

Yes, the salutation "girls" was meant to be a putdown. Clever of you to pick up on it. In hindsight, it was inappropriate. Seemed cute at the time, though. Oh, well...the Internet.

No, the being busy thing was not meant to be a putdown. It's the truth. But I only mentioned it because some conspiracy minded individuals read some strange significance into my lack of posts to date. So what? I read Charles and follow his links but seldom read the comments (mainly because of weird OT memes like this).

There was more I wanted to say but my PC locked up and I had to start all over and have been working on this post for 15 minutes now which, you have to admit, is absurd. I absolutely have no quarrel with any lizards and feel that we stand together on many issues - Islam being the most important of our time. Too important to quarrel over such silly stuff. So I'll say:

My apologies for offending anyone. That's not why I come to this site. We're all in this together. I'll remember that if you will.

535 reine.de.tout  Wed, May 28, 2008 3:08:05pm

re: #355 ploome hineni

the churches in Europe have abandoned the people, as seen during the HOlocaust and as we see now

how has the church led by example?

re: #385 Killgore Trout

True, I think Christianity didn't perform well in WWII Europe. The years that followed were decades of sexual abuse of children. I think that really hurt the Church's image. But I also think that most people recognize the Churches as a man made institutions and are imperfect. People still need spirituality and would easily return to the churches if it filled the proper needs for them.

My church as not led well by example. Apart from my catholic faith, which is deep, I am not blinded by the "bad faith" of the human church leaders in their complete and total failure to even acknowledge the depth and awfulness of the sexual abuse scandals, and I take issue with many of the current interpretations that say we must allow the takeover of our country by illegal aliens in the name of "charity".

Killgore hit the nail on the head.

536 RickZ  Wed, May 28, 2008 3:25:51pm

re: #353 Who Watches the Watchmen?

And did those feet in ancient time,
Walk upon England’s mountains green:
And was the holy Lamb of God,
On England’s pleasant pastures seen!

And did the Countenance Divine,
Shine forth upon our clouded hills?
And was Jerusalem builded here,
Among these dark Satanic Mills?

Bring me my Bow of burning gold;
Bring me my Arrows of desire:
Bring me my Spear: O clouds unfold:
Bring me my Chariot of fire!

I will not cease from Mental Fight,
Nor Shall my sword sleep in my hand:
Till we have built Jerusalem,
In England’s green & pleasant Land.

Funny, ELP put that song on an album, while the Decemberists sing the Commie National Anrhem. My how things (quickly) change.

537 Ojoe  Wed, May 28, 2008 3:32:44pm

re: #535 reine.de.tout

Well. Killgore is right

I'm a bad Catholic myself - don't go to mass much

But I'd be back more likely, when the Church gets its act together

But that means back in a visible sense

Because spiritually I have never left

The real people who made this (Chartres)

538 ContraJihadi  Wed, May 28, 2008 3:35:50pm

There are times when I am glad I'll (most likely) be dead in thirty years, but it's going to be hell on my son and his family.

539 ploome hineni[deleted]  Wed, May 28, 2008 3:41:31pm
540 ContraJihadi  Wed, May 28, 2008 3:43:17pm

re: #537 Ojoe

Whatever one thinks of Roman Catholic theology, there is no doubt that the Church has preserved the aesthetic refinements of ancient Greece and has often magnificently augmented them. The stained glass windows of the Medieval cathedrals must delight the eye. And few harmonies can more exalt the soul than such as the sacred motet O Magnum Mysterium.

541 ContraJihadi  Wed, May 28, 2008 3:44:51pm

re: #539 ploome hineni

That's a quote. "I don't mind being dead. It's dying that I fear." Who said that? Seneca? Some Roman Stoic?

542 ContraJihadi  Wed, May 28, 2008 3:45:54pm

re: #541 ContraJihadi

That's a quote. "I don't mind being dead. It's dying that I fear." Who said that? Seneca? Some Roman Stoic?

Or was it a character in a Jack Vance novel?

543 Former SSG  Wed, May 28, 2008 3:53:14pm

re: #264 Bubblehead II

Wow, you started me on a real trail... your song, then Bismarck, then Ballad of the Green Beret... thanks!

544 Ojoe  Wed, May 28, 2008 3:53:47pm

re: #540 ContraJihadi

There is a great CD of that name whereon the Robert Shaw Choral sings it

Here in the magnum mysterium is humanity's spiritual home

not the call from the minaret

It is a war we have on our hands here, yes.

545 TalkinKamel  Wed, May 28, 2008 3:57:52pm

re: #237 Killgore Trout

You say you don't have any specific ideas, but then you turn around and claim that you're sure the churches are to blame. Well, if you don't know, how can you be so sure it's the churches? Oh, they've certainly made mistakes---but I doubt the would-be church-going public is guiltless either. As Yma points out in his excellent posts, if you want to support a church, you can't just sit around complaining that the bishops aren't doing enough, and waiting for somebody else to come in and fix things. You've got to do it yourself. You've got to show your faith to the world, not just wait for permission from such church or other to do it.

And I'm with WriterMom. Faith, spirituality is something the British (and other Europeans) are going to have to do for themselves. Faith isn't like filling up at a gas pump; you can't just sit back and let somebody else come along and fill you up with G-d, there ya go, you're all set! It doesn't work that way. Besides, Europe has been Christian for centuries. They have their history right there in front of them, they can certainly work to reclaim it on their own.

ajmurray is the kind of Irishman who makes me soooo glad my family got out of there!

Also, aj, if you're so busy, and you've got such a nice, demanding job, how comes you're hanging around this website, complaining about comments from people you say you think are inane? Surely there are better ways to spend your time?

546 ContraJihadi  Wed, May 28, 2008 4:03:43pm

re: #544 Ojoe

The sample I linked was by Tomas Luis deVictoria, a Spaniard of the late 16-th century, composed incidentally, not too long after the Battle of Lepento, when the Turk was repelled and no longer threatened the Mediterranean.

There has been no development, no individual flourishing, in Islamic aesthetic since about the 13th-century (when, admittedly, some strains of Islam did show the creative spark).

But I think your point is that where there is mystery, authoritarian certainty must give way, at least a little bit; and except in Sufism, there is no mystery in Islam, only dreary dogma of the most suppressive and murderous kind.

547 Ojoe  Wed, May 28, 2008 4:11:06pm

re: #546 ContraJihadi

Well, the authoritarian certainty gives way to force only & I suppose one's faith in the mystery will provide the impetus behind that force

I bet such was the operation of the faith of all the great leaders that advanced the cause of human freedom

The most moral people should have the biggest weapons

Upon the instant that they do not, the evil prey upon the innocent

I like that music I did not know it was composed right after Lepanto

548 bullskin  Wed, May 28, 2008 4:11:35pm

Spain, 750.- Muslims troops succeeded invading the whole Iberian Peninsula. Little or no force opposed them since liberal lords seeked the muslim help while fighting each other. Muslim forces gained advantage from this weakness and marched northbound with no resistance.

Spain 1492.- After eight centuries of fight, the remainings of the Christian retreating forces have marched back southbound. Muslims were driven to the sea and Taifas kingdoms have been terminated.

Spain 1808.- Spaniards seeing King and Lords hug the 'freedom' offered by Napoleon proceeded to stab thoroughly Napoleon troops . Later on, Commanders unloyal to the King and lords established the first defeat of Napoleon next July, 19th.

People love freedom. Nor Domitianus could terminate Christians, nor muslims could keep western civilization territories, nor Napoleon could hold a land, nor Hitler could, nor Stalin, nor...

People, no matter which country lives in, love freedom.

Islam, is it freedom?.

549 debutaunt  Wed, May 28, 2008 4:21:23pm

re: #534 ajmurray

"Yes, the salutation "girls" was meant to be a putdown. Clever of you to pick up on it. In hindsight, it was inappropriate. Seemed cute at the time, though. Oh, well...the Internet."

Oh hell, I thought he was addressing me.

550 Ojoe  Wed, May 28, 2008 4:22:32pm

re: #548 bullskin

Not freedom. It is a dead end street. "Sackgasse". The Pope called it so:

#179 True German Ally 4/20/2005 8:57:37 am PDT

Pope Benedict may come across as the Great Inquisitor, but he has never refused discussion and arguments. He is firm on the "essentials" of the Catholic faith. The German Catholic professors he suspended clearly violated the essential principles of Catholicism. He is an extremely intelligent, bright personality... a bit shy with people though. He won't pretend to have the charisma of JPII.

From my conversations with him in the late 70s, when he was archbishop of Munich, I learned a few things about him:

1) That he hated the Nazis even during his short time in the Hitler Youth. He was a nominal member, but was exempted weeks after his compulsory joining because of his fragile health and studies in the Catholic seminary (many boys actually joined Catholic institutions to avoid service in the HJ.) His teen years had a lasting effect on him as he was able to see the difference between reality and what the Nazis taught. His love for truth and being truthful all the time stems from this early experience.

2) He was a progressive Catholic in his early year (played an important role at the 2nd Vaticanum), but the intolerance of 1968 made him change his mind. He abhorred communism and the carefree nihilist thinkings in these times and became a conservative, but not a reactionary, as many claim.

3) He saw the dangers of Islamic fanatism in the 70s already. Khomeini was a menetekel for him. At this time he didn't see Islam so much as a threat for Europe (yet), but for Asia and Africa.

4) He is more a friend of the Jews than most other Catholic priests. I remember him saying that Christians and Jews are on the same direction to salvation, just on different paths. Islam instead was an aberration that would lead humanity into a religious "dead end street" (Sackgasse was his exact word). He strongly favoured a rapprochement between the Catholic and Jewish faith, but didn't see any common ground between Christianity and Islam.


And yes, I think, we'll see a few surprises from him in the next years. I had to chuckle when I heard the Chicoms demands today. Oh boy, they are messing with the wrong guy here.

Benedict of Nursia one restored the Christian faith in a devastated Europe. Commentators have focussed much on Benedict XV as the closest role model of Ratzinger. But I think he's much closer to Benedict XIV.

[Link: [Link: www.newadvent.org...]...]

And yes, he loved the "Apfelmaultaschen" (pasta made with potato flour, filled with apples and powder sugar and cinnamon on top) my wife prepared for him :-)

They look like this:
[Link: [Link: www.donau.de...]...]

I guess you won't find this detail on CNN :-)

551 Silhouette  Wed, May 28, 2008 4:26:12pm

re: #549 debutaunt

Oh hell, I thought he was addressing me.

But how clever of us to figure it out. Cuz us dum ol' girls ain't usually two gud at that there 'seeing the obvious' stuff.

552 Former SSG  Wed, May 28, 2008 4:27:47pm

re: #534 ajmurray

We all are not going to agree on every point, for example, GWB.
Good faith and thinking before we post keeps us civil, most of the time! As far as I'm concerned, no offense taken.

553 ContraJihadi  Wed, May 28, 2008 4:32:35pm

re: #547 Ojoe

I may be going out on a limb here, but I say that if a person admits that mystery exists, the acknowledgment must check the kind of puffed up self-certainly that might lead him to militant arrogance. On the other hand, one might "mystically" assert one has a calling to convert the heathen or something like that. Still, I retain the belief that true mysticism humiliates ones' arrogance.

But more important is your point. We of the liberal tradition (and I use the term in its classical meaning) must oppose authoritarianism the same way our grandfathers did, with confident, unapologetic force. My dear Dad, bless his memory, died just 30 days before 9/11. He joined the army that fought Hitler (he could have spent the whole war on an army base in Utah typing out orders for those who went abroad); and if he had lived another 30 days, he would have harbored no doubts whatsoever about what to do. Only after the enemy is utterly humiliated can the victory, confident of the righteousness of his cause, consider reconciliation and kindness. Lincoln knew that, MacArthur knew that, even that supercilious Democrat Roosevelt knew that.

If we don't recover that certainty, then it will be a mystery if we survive as a constitutional republic.

554 reine.de.tout  Wed, May 28, 2008 4:33:45pm

re: #537 Ojoe

Well. Killgore is right

I'm a bad Catholic myself - don't go to mass much

But I'd be back more likely, when the Church gets its act together

But that means back in a visible sense

Because spiritually I have never left

The real people who made this (Chartres)

This is about where I am too

555 Ben-Ami  Wed, May 28, 2008 4:36:28pm

For what it's worth, the Church of England Newspaper is not the official newspaper of the Church of England.

556 bullskin  Wed, May 28, 2008 4:37:24pm

re: #550 Ojoe

Islam instead was an aberration that would lead humanity into a religious "dead end street" (Sackgasse was his exact word). He strongly favoured a rapprochement between the Catholic and Jewish faith, but didn't see any common ground between Christianity and Islam.

But Spaniards, along eight centuries knew there was another world and fought for it. The same way, in a worst case scenario, English, Europeans, whoever can do the same again. Islam could not ever win, because Islam failed to follow the first rule of engagement: You shall not underestimate your enemy. The enemy of Islam is freedom.

557 Ojoe  Wed, May 28, 2008 4:41:59pm

re: #553 ContraJihadi

Only the strong can be gentle

BBL

558 abolitionist  Wed, May 28, 2008 4:51:57pm

re: #317 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

Didn't know that Mussolini had jihadis in the ranks. I know that Franco's revolt, which began the Spanish Civil War (a dress rehersal for WWII) was manned by his North African muslim forces.

From Allies of Jihad
The Common Strategies of Napoleon, Kaiser Wilhelm II, Mussolini and Hitler
by Norman Berdichevsky

In the Italian campaign of aggression against Abyssinia, the Catholic Church was exploited by Mussolini to lend its approval to a war characterized as one on behalf of Western civilization against African barbarism. Nevertheless, a large proportion of the Italian forces were Muslim recruits from Libya, Eritrea, Somaliland and the Muslim dominated Galla region. Arab volunteers to serve in the Italian forces against the Christian Ethiopians included a contingent from Yemen. The same policy was also followed by General Francisco Franco in the Spanish Civil War (see March 2008 issue of New English Review, "Spain in the Sahdow of Bin-Laden).

The Muslims in Northeast Africa had a long hereditary grudge against the Christian majority in the highland areas of Northern Ethiopia and the Emperor Haile Selassie...


re: #343 Who Watches the Watchmen?

Wasn't El Duce Obama's Great-Uncle-in-law who broke the color barrier with the 1937 Yankees?

Can't say that I've heard of that one. But I am interested in a certain Brother Barry's activities related to driving Muhammad, and whether he's running for any major political office. Want a link?

559 ContraJihadi  Wed, May 28, 2008 5:00:09pm

e: #343 Who Watches the Watchmen?

Wasn't El Duce Obama's Great-Uncle-in-law who broke the color barrier with the 1937 Yankees?

Now there's a concentration of images that cleanly unwraps the fascism concealed in Bitter Barry's densely packaged democratic socialism.

You, sir, have the instincts of a poet! (Or at least of a damn effective polemicist.)

560 debutaunt  Wed, May 28, 2008 5:05:44pm

re: #551 Silhouette

But how clever of us to figure it out. Cuz us dum ol' girls ain't usually two gud at that there 'seeing the obvious' stuff.

Too funny!

561 Is it me?  Wed, May 28, 2008 5:10:09pm

It's 12.30am here in England and I just knew I shouldn't read this thread!
I now have a headache.
I was brought up Cof E but left many years ago. That doesn't mean that I am not christian by inclination but I'm not a formal church goer.
Yma seems to be much more clued up on church matters (thanks for all the info!) than I. I have to say I view Rowan Williams as being very wimpy, where is his passion for his faith? The Rt Rev Michael Nazir-Ali seems far more clued up.

If posters are going to pillory Europe PLEASE do not lump us Brits in with them. We are an Island people and very different from the continental Europeans. Our history is different as is our culture and we have spent many centuries fighting them (esp the Fwench!). We're a very different cup of tea. #403 patrickafir - I think we have just finished paying off our debt to the USA for WW2, I do not know if any European countries still owe you money. I really shouldn't have to point out that we're the best allies you've got. Do I?
We are not down and out for the count. NuLabour have spent the last 10 years+ oppressing us (esp the English) in order to stay in power. They have undermined the basic democratic foundations and done their best to legislate us into silence while selling us off to the EU politicians (cos Tony Blair wants to be President of the EU). Things are now starting to bubble nicely -
Labour got pounded at the recent local council elections (and that didn't cover the whole country).
The recent by-election in Crewe (real Labour country) they got pulverised and their 7000+ majority got turned into a 7000+ majority for the Tories (that's major).
Labour are still intent on bankrupting us out of our cars. Petrol is about 10 dollars a gallon and diesel about 12 dollars a gallon. They are now threatening to put and extra 2 pence a litre on fuel and whack up the road tax on cars (I have a little diesel hatchback and my road tax would go up 24% - about 35 quid). We have already had the truckers blocking roads and protesting and I don't think it will go away. We are all suffering and will suffer more so it should escalate into far more serious disturbances.
Labour can't hide for much longer and we want an election now. The last election was 2005 (and highly suspect because of the postal vote) so it should be next year. They will be facing a lot more trouble before then. They have no idea what we Brits are like when truely roused, they live in their own little world. We're pretty tolerant but it only goes so far. I think most people are thoroughly p*ssed off at Labours cowardice in dealing with the Islamist threat and they will pay for it. It's going to take some time to sort out the resulting mess and it's going to take someone who has courage to do it. I just don't know whether the current crop of opposition polititians are up to it.
I hope so.
ajmurrays' bitter and offensive little rant was rightly deleted. I won't say what I thought of it.
It's now gone 1am and my eyes are square... night all.

562 Annar  Wed, May 28, 2008 5:14:02pm

re: #3 joncelli

As Henry VIII's body achieves high RPMs in his grave.

Actually Henry VIII's church started with headlessness as a founding principle. (RIP Anne Boleyn), so it has a lot in common with Islam already so the king can stop spinning.

563 offendi  Wed, May 28, 2008 5:14:57pm

Fish and Pita and an honour killing on the side : The New UK

564 Ojoe  Wed, May 28, 2008 5:36:42pm

re: #561 Is it me?

Thank you for your informative post

I've been reading Churchill's "The Gathering Storm"

And in it he says that even Chamberlain 'Had a very hard core'.

So I am also encouraged to hear you say "We're pretty tolerant but it only goes so far."

Some things do not change

(& it will take a leader not a politician to get our country and yours on the right track.)

565 Seraphym  Wed, May 28, 2008 5:37:42pm

As a fan of England in many cultural respects, I found it extremely ironic to read this article... and at the bottom, read an advertisement that claims to be able to lower by blood pressure.

566 Seraphym  Wed, May 28, 2008 5:39:35pm

lower by my blood pressure

PIMF

567 jamsler  Wed, May 28, 2008 6:07:28pm

re: #409 freetoken

Your icon stinks of murder. Better have it cleaned or replaced. I suggest this.

568 TalkinKamel  Wed, May 28, 2008 6:15:38pm

re: #534 ajmurray

I think you've mastered being flagrantly---or fragrantly----or whatever----arrogant. You've certainly got the arrogant part down pat.

If you didn't come here to be insulting, why'd you bother coming at all? You certainly haven't accomplished much of anything else, except showing us your flagrant/fragrant arrogance.

569 twincitiesgirl  Wed, May 28, 2008 7:01:10pm

Ah the Brits, you gotta love em. While reading this I thought it was some type of insane parody they do so well. There is such as thing as too understated.

570 rorschach  Wed, May 28, 2008 7:26:56pm

I'd say it's just about time to institute a BRA. (British Republican Army)

Taking out London would be a small price to pay to save the Empire.

571 opinionated  Wed, May 28, 2008 7:29:39pm

Thirty years may be optimistic:

UK union encourages Israel boycott

[Link: www.jpost.com...]

Why, you ask?

Tom Hickey, who teaches philosophy at the University of Brighton, says the motion highlighting the "humanitarian catastrophe imposed on Gaza by Israel"

[Link: www.haaretz.com...]

I have mixed feeling on Britain falling to Islam. They are Western.

On the other hand no one deserves it more.

572 wanumba  Wed, May 28, 2008 8:03:59pm

re: #526 Watookal

I would not concern myself with England turning muslim, almost a third of all South-Koreans are Christians today. Christianity is also rapidly spreading in Russia and the old USSR states. And hang on to your hat, even in China Christianity is spreading like wild-fire.
Quite ironic to think in the end it will those 'commie bastards' and 'yellow-peril' people that will obliterate islam and save Europe and the USA.


There's a real chance for that now. The Africans are standing up for a return to genuine faith, at least two US churches put themselves under the African authority recently to get away from the lax hedonistic theology of the current Episcopalian CHurch. In England, church leaders are coming from outside England, from Africa, S Asia and elsewhere calling for a renewal. The old missionary plantings in the colonies is bearing fruit, nations now, not colonies any more, are sending BACK to England their own home-gown missionaries.
... And what you said about China - think of those families that just lost their only heirs, One Child crushed under rubble thanks to sub-standard construction. One child - by force. Men and women barred from having families, and losing that child, through contaminated medicines, capricious justice systems, natural disasters that shouldn't have been disasters. The government which played as a god has failed them totally. They have nothing to lose now, their future is dead. They live now to take care of their elderly until they die, and then themselves, no children, no youth, no life to carry on their family line. The spiritual hole in their hearts is HUGE now, HUGE. They need God, desperately. The regime that tried to stomp out any mention of God is simply driving the population TO God.
Very interesting times.

573 Ojoe  Wed, May 28, 2008 9:01:12pm

re: #572 wanumba

Excellent post, well said.

574 wanumba  Wed, May 28, 2008 9:12:09pm

re: #573 Ojoe
Many thanks - and look! Tonight just appeared on Yahoo! News - Chinese families lost their one child. Third story so far and more to come as the effects of this continue to spread. The other day, China announced that parents who lost their child could be permitted to have another. Uh huh. How many of those couples were sterilized after the birth of their allotted child?
China's population may crash faster than anyone thought possible. That country will know nothing but death, families at the end of their lines. No one to carry on the name. Finished. Except the Party hacks who worked the system and had more kids.
Will the regime be able to contain the rage?

575 DobermanBoston  Thu, May 29, 2008 5:24:32am

re: #500 jcm

WTF?
You know how easy it would be to use that thing to defeat an officer?
When I did LE training we got special instruction down to watch bands that could be used as a handle and lever against us.

The image of this is hilarious.

576 nadadhimmi  Thu, May 29, 2008 6:33:45am

But the really important question asked by members of Parliment is: will the Imams still allow our " fat and phycopathic wifes to beat us within inches of our lives "

577 chaz  Thu, May 29, 2008 8:01:47am

re: #534 ajmurray

"My apologies for offending anyone. That's not why I come to this site. We're all in this together."

You wished Islamic rule on me and my country, out of spite for things that happened before I was born. Your hatred for me (being English) is greater than your hatred of radical Islam. Doesn't look like "we're all in this together" to me.

Your apology rings a bit hollow.

578 TalkinKamel  Thu, May 29, 2008 8:42:03am

re: #574 wanumba

Excellent posts. Yes, I think something is going to happen in China, after this latest disaster; I certainly hope the Chinese people manage to throw off the false god of government. China has certainly failed its people; all the hoop-de-rah about the upcoming Olympics can't cover up its failures as a nation.

(I hope they're still not being so stupid as to keep abandoning their baby girls, or allowing them to be adopted outside the country.)

579 TalkinKamel  Thu, May 29, 2008 8:42:46am

re: #577 chaz

As I said, aj's the sort of embittered Irishman that makes me very glad my family got out of that country.

580 TalkinKamel  Thu, May 29, 2008 8:45:24am

re: #561 Is it me?

I agree with you that Labour's pretty bad.

But if you're going to save, and rejuvanate, England, you can't just blame all your problems on one bad political party.

581 jenv  Fri, May 30, 2008 10:11:13pm

re: #548 bullskin


People, no matter which country lives in, love freedom.


I'd have to say you're wrong. A Muslim does not seek freedom, he seeks a state of perfect slavery to Allah.


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