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Barr Gives Stormfront the Heave-Ho

Mon, Jun 2, 2008 at 6:20:17 pm PDT

LGF kudos to Libertarian candidate Bob Barr for doing what Ron Paul wouldn’t: telling the neo-Nazis to drop dead.

The Barr campaign is not going to be a vehicle for every fringe and hate group to promote itself. We do not want and will not accept the support of haters. Anyone with love in their heart for our country and for every resident of our country regardless of race, religion, nationality or sexual orientation is welcome with open arms.

Tell the haters I said don’t let the door hit you on the backside on your way out!

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398 comments

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1 Edouard  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 6:20:59pm

Good on ya, Bob.

2 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 6:21:11pm
3 zombie  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 6:21:18pm

Buh-bye, nazis.

4 Jetpilot1101  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 6:21:39pm

He may just earn my vote yet.

5 zombie  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 6:22:05pm

re: #2 buzzsawmonkey

Katie Barr the door!

Hrrican'es a-comin'. Lock the Stormfront doors!

6 Gang of One  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 6:22:07pm

Tell the haters I said don’t let the door hit you on the backside on your way out!

Door. Ass. Bang.

/I love it

7 zombie  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 6:22:26pm

Hrrican'es = Hurricane's

PIMF

8 sadhu  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 6:22:46pm

Zombie -- no ping to your website, traceroute next

9 Sharmuta  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 6:22:50pm
Tell the haters I said don’t let the door hit you on the backside on your way out!

And it's just that easy. Too bad some bloggers (who shall remain nameless) couldn't think to do the same thing.

10 JammieWearingFool  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 6:22:52pm

Now if only the Democrat candidate would dump all the haters surrounding him.

Oh wait, then there'd be nobody left to campaign for him.

11 Killian Bundy  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 6:23:07pm
Bob Barr for doing what Ron Paul wouldn’t: telling Stormfront to drop dead.

/it'd be better if he'd just drop out

12 zombie  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 6:23:29pm

I am unable to access my own site.

Can you access it?

And if you can't, is there are way for me to determine why it's inaccessible at the moment?

I've got a report to upload and I can't even log on.

13 zombie  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 6:23:49pm

re: #8 sadhu

Zombie -- no ping to your website, traceroute next

Translate to English please!

14 Killgore Trout  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 6:24:17pm

Good for him. Libertarianism has become a dumping ground for nutcases. Maybe they can clean up their act.

15 simonml  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 6:25:30pm

In the words of the immortal Indiana Jones, "Nazis... I hate these guys!"

Er something like that

16 BGOH  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 6:25:47pm

Nice tacit move, but f**k him. Pissed won't even be able to come anywhere close to describing what I will be feeling if this asshat pulls a bunch of idiotic voters away from McCain and brings this country four years of Carter's second administration.

He's a f**king turncoat. I don't care who he denounces. And I'm sorry, but denouncing hate groups isn't really an accomplishment. One shouldn't be attracting them in the first place.

17 Killgore Trout  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 6:26:02pm

Semi-OT: When extremists collide....
Man convicted of killing activist


A man has been convicted of the manslaughter of a BNP activist in a long-running neighbour dispute.

Habib Khan, 50, of Stoke-on-Trent, stabbed Keith Brown, 52, with a kitchen knife last year, Stafford Crown Court heard.

He said he held a knife against Mr Brown "to scare him" when he saw him trying to strangle his son Azir Saddique.

Khan, of Uttoxeter Road, Normacot, had denied murdering Mr Brown.

Single stab wound

Father-of-seven Mr Brown died in hospital after the attack in July 2007.

Khan had earlier told the court that living next door to his neighbour for five years had been "hell".

18 DesertSage  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 6:26:23pm

I still think he's related to Roseanne.

19 tokyobk  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 6:27:16pm

Great Job Bob Barr! No jokes.

Now tell your separated-at-birth twin Reverend Wright to stop pretending he is black. Joke.

20 Nevergiveup  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 6:27:32pm

re: #18 DesertSage

I still think he's related to Roseanne.

But the real question is whether Roseanne is related to Rosie?

21 DesertSage  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 6:28:19pm

re: #20 Nevergiveup

But the real question is whether Roseanne is related to Rosie?

I used to think they were sisters.

22 RTLM  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 6:28:39pm

Barr is still a tone deaf moron. Just as big a tone deaf moron as Ron Paul.

23 Sharmuta  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 6:28:58pm

We don't need nazis cluttering up other political parties. If they think their message is so superior, they should focus on promoting their own party.

Of course, the reason they won't focus on their own American nazi party is because it's been rejected time and time again as the vile ideology that it is, so they think they can use entryism to infiltrate decent, respectable parties.

Good for Bob Barr. Other candidates who refuse to reject these people are, in essence, validating them.

24 Don Black  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 6:29:36pm

We still have Ron Paul.

25 pingjockey  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 6:30:13pm

There are still 4 or 5 six by ten foot Luap Nor signs up around here.

26 Racer X  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 6:31:37pm

Barr is all over the place, politically.
From Wiki :

Barr advocated complete federal prohibition of medical marijuana.....Despite Barr's fierce conviction at the time, he would later reverse his position on medical marijuana, actually joining MPP as a lobbyist five years later

Barr sat on the Board of Directors of the National Rifle Association from 2001 to 2007.[60]
More recently, Barr has become a prominent member of the American Civil Liberties Union, sometimes doing paid consulting on privacy issues.

27 Killian Bundy  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 6:32:05pm

re: #24 Don Black

We still have Ron Paul.

/at least he won't be a potential spoiler come November

28 Bob in Breckenridge  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 6:32:43pm

re: #8 sadhu

Zombie -- no ping to your website, traceroute next

Works fine here zombie.

29 Nevergiveup  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 6:33:16pm

re: #27 Killian Bundy

/at least he won't be a potential spoiler come November

Don't count your chickens before they come home to roast!

30 ethanxxx  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 6:34:01pm

re: #25 pingjockey

There are still 4 or 5 six by ten foot Luap Nor signs up around here.

I still see people driving around with Kerry/Edwards stickers on their cars. My 11 year old reminds them what year it is when drive by them.

31 LoFlyer  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 6:34:09pm

Zombie, I can ping and resolve your IP address, 66.228.122.12 zombietime.com. Can't get to your site via an internet browser

32 pingjockey  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 6:34:22pm

re: #27 Killian Bundy

Don't the Libertarians get a small percentage every election? I don't think he'll have the impact Perot had.

33 HelloDare  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 6:34:29pm

Hey, Ron Paul. See how easy it is.

34 Killian Bundy  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 6:35:10pm

re: #29 Nevergiveup

Don't count your chickens before they come home to roast!

/Ron Paul won't run as third-party candidate

35 pingjockey  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 6:35:16pm

re: #30 ethanxxx
Yep. Thing is these signs look NEW! Cue the Twilight Zone music.

36 Silhouette  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 6:35:18pm

That's so simple.

Why can't Obama tell the same to racist preachers, Hamas, FARC, Hezb'allah, etc. that support him?

"Hamas supports me!?! A bunch of genocidal terrorists? Tell them to stick their support."

Come on, Obama. It really is so simple. You even have a "go by" now. Hello? Hello?

37 Yankee Division Son  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 6:35:19pm

Good for you, Mr. Barr

Also, OT, the pages are loading differently when moving through from thread to thread. Much faster...

38 Racer X  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 6:35:20pm

re: #12 zombie

zombietime now loads OK.

39 Bob in Breckenridge  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 6:35:24pm

re: #12 zombie

I am unable to access my own site.

Can you access it?

And if you can't, is there are way for me to determine why it's inaccessible at the moment?

I've got a report to upload and I can't even log on.

Let's try again. Works fine here zombie.

40 Nevergiveup  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 6:35:41pm

File this under " Last To Know":
[Link: www.ynetnews.com...]

41 Slumbering Behemoth  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 6:35:52pm

re: #12 zombie

Works now.

42 zombie  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 6:35:55pm

re: #28 Bob in Breckenridge

Works fine here zombie.

Wow! You have the magic touch!

Up until the moment you posted that comment, my site was inaccessible. Now it works!

You are the King Midas of Web access.

43 zombie  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 6:36:30pm

Crisis over. Thanks to Bob.

Carry on.

44 pingjockey  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 6:36:45pm

re: #42 zombie

Goddamn intertube gremlins. I hate intertube gremlins.

45 Bob in Breckenridge  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 6:36:56pm

re: #42 zombie

Wow! You have the magic touch!

Up until the moment you posted that comment, my site was inaccessible. Now it works!

You are the King Midas of Web access.

Just remember to bow. That's all I ask.

46 slokat  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 6:37:09pm

re: #28 Bob in Breckenridge

I'm back in Zombietime. too... never thought I'd have reason to say that.

47 Sifty  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 6:38:11pm

Wow. Bob Barr.

Same guy from the movie Borat? Guy who fought to keep US pagan soldiers from having pentacles on their grave monuments?

If it is the same guy, he is a little iffy in my book. He has the loony "Pat Buchanan" vibe. Not exactly, but similar. Makes our loony-sense tingle here in the command bunker.

That being said, I think it's great that he told the nazi pricks to hit the road. There should be no place in politics for nazis to hide and exert influence.

48 Killian Bundy  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 6:38:14pm

re: #32 pingjockey

Don't the Libertarians get a small percentage every election? I don't think he'll have the impact Perot had.

/he still doesn't need to lend his name to a cause that can only hurt McCain

49 RTLM  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 6:39:00pm

Barr has stated flatly that he would "be honored" to have Ron Paul as a Running Mate. If he switched parties.

[Link: forums.hannity.com...]

50 Bob in Breckenridge  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 6:39:17pm

re: #46 slokat

I'm back in Zombietime. too... never thought I'd have reason to say that.

You make it sound like a dirty place. j/k : )

51 coquimbojoe  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 6:39:23pm

I have always that Barr was a bit of a nut, but generally OK. He has always been willing to tilt at windmills. I am glad he told Stormfront to go away...

52 Racer X  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 6:39:47pm

re: #47 Sifty

He pegs my creep-o-meter too.

53 zombie  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 6:39:49pm

Hmm, now it loads slow.

I must be getting slammed with traffic from somewhere. The only explanation. I wonder who linked to me?

(Hoping it's somewhere nice, but likely it's a big jihadi forum link -- that happens every now and then. Half the Islamists in the Middle East simultaneously try to get a glimpse of the Mohammed cartoons, and I'm knocked offline until they give up.)

54 pat  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 6:39:52pm

Barr's shallow intellectualism was a problem for the Republicans. Sort of had the depth of Trent Lott. Although I agree with his sentiments regarding Constitutional rights, I do not think he will have an impact. The rote memorization of Libertarian beliefs is not enough in the world where our Constitution, Judeo-Christian beliefs, and even the history of the nation is being challenged both intellectually and by war.

55 nyc redneck  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 6:40:25pm

stormfront is stupid.

56 karmic_inquisitor  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 6:41:42pm

Over at HuffPo they are wetting themselves over the whole "Barr as McCain's Nader" theory. Seems to spawn an article every couple of hours.

57 pingjockey  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 6:41:48pm

re: #48 Killian Bundy
Hmmm. Maybe. Some of the libertarian platform is ok, but as a whole, it is waaaay out there. I just can't see dissafected conservatives jumping ship to vote libertarian. But that is what I thought about Ross Perot too.

58 Nevergiveup  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 6:41:52pm

File this under " What could possibly go Wrong?":
[Link: www.ynetnews.com...]

59 Slumbering Behemoth  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 6:42:22pm

Is that a Class A ip? Impressive.

60 pingjockey  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 6:43:38pm

re: #58 Nevergiveup
Lets see, neo-nazi rallies on April 20th?

61 slokat  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 6:43:39pm

re: #50 Bob in Breckenridge

actually was thinking gaming or horror movies... might be dirty games?

62 Killgore Trout  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 6:43:41pm

Once a woodworker, always a woodworker....
Once Jesus Got Famous He Changed, Man
Blasphemy!

63 LoFlyer  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 6:44:38pm

re: #54 pat

Barr's shallow intellectualism was a problem for the Republicans. Sort of had the depth of Trent Lott. Although I agree with his sentiments regarding Constitutional rights, I do not think he will have an impact. The rote memorization of Libertarian beliefs is not enough in the world where our Constitution, Judeo-Christian beliefs, and even the history of the nation is being challenged both intellectually and by war.


Newt in 2012! The smartest Republican you will find. You need to keep a close eye on him, lots of ideas, most good, some bad. I don't like how he is buying into global warming...

64 Sharmuta  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 6:45:03pm
Barr consultant Steve Gordon sent me the statement and added: "We denounce anybody who doesn't want to treat everybody equally under the law."

And that's the way it should be. Too bad the democrats, with their super delegates and half delegates, don't get this.

65 EE  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 6:45:28pm

Cheers to Bob Barr, for not willing to be associated with the neo-Nazis.

66 HelloDare  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 6:45:33pm

re: #10 JammieWearingFool

Now if only the Democrat candidate would dump all the haters surrounding him.

Oh wait, then there'd be nobody left to campaign for him.

He'd have to divorce his wife. How would that help his kids?

67 StinkHammer  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 6:46:16pm

Good on Barr. But I still ain't votin' for him.

Libertarians routinely garner what, about 1% of the electorate?

68 LoFlyer  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 6:46:48pm

re: #66 HelloDare

He'd have to divorce his wife. How would that help his kids?

WIC foodstamps!

69 JammieWearingFool  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 6:47:11pm

re: #66 HelloDare

He'd have to divorce his wife. How would that help his kids?

Damn, I keep overlooking the children.

70 Edouard  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 6:47:18pm

re: #16 BGOH

Nice tacit move, but f**k him. Pissed won't even be able to come anywhere close to describing what I will be feeling if this asshat pulls a bunch of idiotic voters away from McCain and brings this country four years of Carter's second administration.

He's a f**king turncoat. I don't care who he denounces. And I'm sorry, but denouncing hate groups isn't really an accomplishment. One shouldn't be attracting them in the first place.

Honestly I don't think Barr is a problem for McCain. Since he is anti-Iraq war, Barr may indeed draw as many, or nearly as many votes from the Democrats as he will from the Republicans, given that he is likely to attract many Ron Paul voters, quite a few of whom, as we know, are essentially moonbats. IMHO Nader will be more problematic for Obama than Barr will be for McCain.

71 HelloDare  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 6:47:52pm

re: #69 JammieWearingFool

Damn, I keep overlooking the children.

Typical conservative/

72 winston06  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 6:48:23pm

I wish he would step down in favor of Senator McCain

73 lawhawk  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 6:48:32pm

re: #66 HelloDare

They could blame Bush. In the rush to try and oust him from office (which he's leaving in January as per the US Constitution, but don't let facts get in the way of a good leftist rant), things happen. After all, women and children are hit hardest. /

74 nyc redneck  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 6:51:10pm

re: #64 Sharmuta

And that's the way it should be. Too bad the democrats, with their super delegates and half delegates, don't get this.

lol, 'half delegates'
rush was on the radio pushing for 3/5 delegates.

75 lawhawk  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 6:51:52pm

As for Barr, it's hilarious that he actually has to come out and say this.

Some things should be obvious and shouldn't be considered anything more than a first step.

Like considering that a Presidential candidate strongly supports the military, enforcing the Constitution, enforcing the laws already on the books regarding the borders, defending the nation against national security threats, etc.

Yet, we're supposed to get excited over the fact that McCain supports some of that? Or that Obama isn't even bothering to pay lip service on most of it?

Or that the media has basically decided who should be the respective candidates for both parties - by throwing media coverage in the tank and doing all it could to support the outcomes.

These candidates are unworthy of being President, and yet here we are.

It's sad. Really sad.

76 Bob in Breckenridge  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 6:52:09pm

O/T, but words of wisdom: Do not, under any circumstances, rub your eyes while slicing jalapeno peppers.

77 lawhawk  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 6:53:04pm

re: #74 nyc redneck

So much for counting every vote. Nice to see that Florida counts only 50%. And it's no one's fault except Dean as well.

78 Nevergiveup  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 6:53:11pm

File this under "Securing Our Borders":
[Link: www.ft.com...]
Of course if you are planning to sneak into the USA, well never mind just come on over?

79 nyc redneck  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 6:54:29pm

re: #75 lawhawk

As for Barr, it's hilarious that he actually has to come out and say this.

Some things should be obvious and shouldn't be considered anything more than a first step.

Like considering that a Presidential candidate strongly supports the military, enforcing the Constitution, enforcing the laws already on the books regarding the borders, defending the nation against national security threats, etc.

Yet, we're supposed to get excited over the fact that McCain supports some of that? Or that Obama isn't even bothering to pay lip service on most of it?

Or that the media has basically decided who should be the respective candidates for both parties - by throwing media coverage in the tank and doing all it could to support the outcomes.

These candidates are unworthy of being President, and yet here we are.

It's sad. Really sad.

yes, and our kids have to witness this craziness of adults.

80 offendi  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 6:54:45pm

I smell a George Soros over in the Barr woodpile.

81 Ma Sands  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 6:54:59pm

re: #76 Bob in Breckenridge

A child working with them at one of our tent meetings years ago, found relief for her poor burning hands, only by sticking them inside a pail of ice cream........milk would do for the eyes.....

82 Mardukhai  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 6:55:03pm

Barak Hussein is a leftist Moonbat.

Bob Barr is a anarchist wingnut.

We don't need extremists of any flavor in the White House.

McCain will win, but essentially without opposition, which is a shame, and bad for democracy. We really need a moderate politcal party.

83 looking closely  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 6:55:04pm

re: #76 Bob in Breckenridge

O/T, but words of wisdom: Do not, under any circumstances, rub your eyes while slicing jalapeno peppers.

I feel your pain.

One time I was slicing Habanero peppers (in relative intensity, those make your jalapeno peppers taste like candy).

Then got itch in eye. . .

Ouch. . .

84 Slumbering Behemoth  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 6:55:40pm

re: #76 Bob in Breckenridge

Ha ha ha! That is something that should only happen ONCE.

/been there, done that, you have my sympathy

85 Maximu§  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 6:55:52pm

Right on Bob Barr....honestly most of us Lizards in here only Hate the Haters. Anyone who loves America, supports the military and supports free speech is welcome in our tent.

86 HelloDare  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 6:55:53pm

Bob Barr.
The extra R stands for risible.

87 PloniAlmoni  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 6:56:21pm

I drove from LA to Vegas last weekend and there are still Ron Paul campaign signs on some of the hills around the road. Strange.

88 pegcity  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 6:56:38pm

re: #12 zombie

worked for me

89 DeathtotheSwiss  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 6:57:48pm

Does this mean that Obama has to give back the support of the Nation of Islam and William Ayers?

90 Ma Sands  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 6:57:52pm

re: #87 PloniAlmoni

That's one thing about most of us Americans --we don't change our season's decorations too faithfully..... :)

91 BGOH  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 6:57:55pm

re: #70 Edouard

Honestly I don't think Barr is a problem for McCain. Since he is anti-Iraq war, Barr may indeed draw as many, or nearly as many votes from the Democrats as he will from the Republicans, given that he is likely to attract many Ron Paul voters, quite a few of whom, as we know, are essentially moonbats. IMHO Nader will be more problematic for Obama than Barr will be for McCain.

Well, I certainly hope you are right. And even though I self-censored myself, I'm sorry for my use of profanity in my previous post. I re-read it and felt like a KosKid for a minute! YUCKY!

But, the affection for Barr on conservative sites, such as this one, does disturb me. I understand where it is coming from - conservatives want someone to vote for who they believe more closely matches their ideological center than McCain does, and I can respect that. And really, I wouldn't have a problem with a "protest" vote if the Dems were running a more moderate guy like Bill Richardson, but they're not. They are running a far-left, arguably socialist candidate in Obama. An Obama victory in November WILL be a disaster for this country, just as the Carter administration was, if not worse. I think most of us realize this, but many seem to keep playing this childish 'purity' game in the face of impending disaster.

I can only hope and pray that people will realize what the potential ramifications are of a McCain loss by the beginning of November...

92 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 6:58:16pm

re: #76 Bob in Breckenridge

O/T, but words of wisdom: Do not, under any circumstances, rub your eyes while slicing jalapeno peppers.

Also...wash your hands good before you pee.

Trust me.

93 solomonpanting  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:00:08pm

LGF kudos to Libertarian candidate Bob Barr for doing what Ron Paul wouldn’t

Bob raising the Barr.

94 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:00:11pm
95 nyc redneck  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:00:28pm

the dems are really showing their collective ass.

96 beachkatie  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:00:31pm

re: #24 Don BlackAre you a troll?

97 Sharmuta  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:01:23pm

re: #89 DeathtotheSwiss

Does this mean that Obama has to give back the support of the Nation of Islam and William Ayers?

No- because on the right is measured by those standards, while the left is only measured by their good intentions.

98 Mr Spiffy  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:01:25pm

Tell the haters I said don’t let the door hit you on the backside on your way out!

...or as we say in the South, "Don't let the door hit ya where the Good Lord split ya"

/copy mode

99 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:01:29pm

Fox News says Robert Byrd went to the hospital after acting lethargic & sluggish.

100 Sharmuta  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:01:40pm

re: #96 beachkatie

It's a sock puppet.

101 Alouette  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:01:52pm

re: #76 Bob in Breckenridge

O/T, but words of wisdom: Do not, under any circumstances, rub your eyes while slicing jalapeno peppers.

What do you think is the main ingredient in pepper spray? Wear GLOVES when chopping peppers!

Last week I made General's Tso's Chicken, was oh so careful to wear gloves while chopping the peppers, disposed of the gloves, washed my hands, washed the cutting board, etc.

But it tastes so good in your mouth!

102 Slumbering Behemoth  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:01:57pm

re: #96 beachkatie

Sock puppet. I forget who owns it.

103 Edouard  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:02:18pm

re: #87 PloniAlmoni

I drove from LA to Vegas last weekend and there are still Ron Paul campaign signs on some of the hills around the road. Strange.

Yes, those particular Paulbots, who live in the middle of the Mojave Desert, are very much like the Tusken Raiders of Star Wars fame. They commonly grunt and howl, live on the barter system, and subsist on 20-Mule-Team Borax.

104 Sifty  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:02:35pm

re: #99 NJDhockeyfan

For 60 years? they just noticed?

105 PloniAlmoni  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:02:35pm

re: #90 Ma Sands

That's one thing about most of us Americans --we don't change our season's decorations too faithfully..... :)


Yep, putting them up is fun, taking them down is a chore.

106 nyc redneck  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:03:05pm

re: #90 Ma Sands

That's one thing about most of us Americans --we don't change our season's decorations too faithfully..... :)

sometimes i see brown christmas trees on the street in june.

107 gman  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:03:39pm

re: #100 Sharmuta

It's a sock puppet.

It's avatar is offensive.

108 Silhouette  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:03:41pm

re: #103 Edouard

Yes, those particular Paulbots, who live in the middle of the Mojave Desert, are very much like the Tusken Raiders of Star Wars fame. They commonly grunt and howl, live on the barter system, and subsist on 20-Mule-Team Borax.

Do. Not. Disparage. The Borax.

109 rawmuse  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:03:46pm

re: #99 NJDhockeyfan

Fox News says Robert Byrd went to the hospital after acting lethargic & sluggish.

The Senate has become God's waiting room.

110 Ma Sands  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:04:19pm

re: #106 nyc redneck

June! Wow. :) --my Dad always used to keep ours around until Easter.....but, June.....oh, my. :)

111 Bat Boy  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:04:25pm

re: #102 Slumbering Behemoth

Sock puppet. I forget who owns it.

Sock Puppets? I likes to eat them! Sock puppets come out and play!

112 Bob in Breckenridge  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:04:37pm

re: #81 Ma Sands

re: #83 looking closely

re: #84 Slumbering Behemoth

re: #92 NJDhockeyfan

re: #101 Alouette

It happened because I'm watching the Red Wings-Penguins while slicing them. BTW, Penguins up 2-1, 3rd period about to start.

113 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:04:44pm
114 Shaky Louie  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:04:49pm

re: #96 beachkatie

Are you a troll?


/A thrall of ron paul?
/A paul thrall?

115 Student of Objectivism  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:05:06pm

What Barr did goes against the actual nature of libertarianism. According to the fundamental "ideas" of libertarianism, everyone is to be welcomed into their camp as long as they don't wish to initiate force. Also, the notion of theirs that says that everyone must believe in liberty in order to be moral. Also, their explicit anti-intellectualism, i.e. refusal to stand on any principles or foundations.

Like it or not, bad people and "hate groups" have always associated with libertarians--child molesters, worshipers of pimps and drug dealers, people who were pro-confederacy in regard to the civil war, worshippers of the PLO, worshippers of state-destruction, etc. It follows from their fundamental positions.

On what libertarian grounds could they deny donations from Nazis? None. Barr is just being a pragmatist.

Sure they ignored Nazis, but who is left?

116 wolfie  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:05:23pm

re: #107 gman

It's avatar is offensive.

EXTREMELY offensive. How do we report an avatar?

117 Alouette  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:05:31pm

re: #112 Bob in Breckenridge

GO WINGS!

118 Bob in Breckenridge  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:05:39pm

re: #112 Bob in Breckenridge

re: #83 looking closely

re: #84 Slumbering Behemoth

re: #92 NJDhockeyfan

re: #101 Alouette

It happened because I'm watching the Red Wings-Penguins while slicing them. BTW, Penguins up 2-1, 3rd period about to start.

But thanks for the warning.

/Next time warn me BEFORE! : )

119 North95  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:06:41pm

re: #12 zombie

I am unable to access my own site.

Can you access it?

And if you can't, is there are way for me to determine why it's inaccessible at the moment?

I've got a report to upload and I can't even log on.

I get your site just fine.

120 Bob in Breckenridge  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:06:43pm

re: #117 Alouette

GO WINGS!

are you watching?

121 gman  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:06:49pm

re: #116 wolfie

EXTREMELY offensive. How do we report an avatar?

Not sure, but I reported the comment hoping Charles will see the avatar.

122 Grammy Cracker  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:07:20pm

re: #117 Alouette

GO WINGS!

WOOT! Go Wings, indeed!

123 Bob in Breckenridge  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:07:23pm

2-2?

124 Bob in Breckenridge  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:07:48pm

NO GOAL!

125 LoFlyer  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:07:52pm

Guys, I am signing out, thanks for the pleasant conversation, just remember things could be a lot worse, we could be paying eight bucks a gallon for gas like they do in the socialist paradise, the EU. See ya' on the flip side.....

126 North95  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:08:09pm

re: #119 North95

I get your site just fine.

Oops, a bit late.

127 Student of Objectivism  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:08:17pm

re: #121 gman

Whose avatar? I tried following the thread but only ran into "sock puppets"

128 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:08:37pm

Hey Red Sox fans...ESPN reporting Davis Ortiz out indefinitely(wrist).

129 offendi  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:08:39pm

Who really cares about a fringe candidate like Barr when Hillary is closeted with her advisors preparing for democratic party Armageddon?
The " popular vote" champ vs. the liberal kooks' wet dream candidate.

Bob's potential twenty-thirty thousand vote-getting in Georgia will really put a dent in the election. Not. Third party candidates require a responding interest/appeal group which Barr simply doesn't have. His candidacy is personal eccentricity, like the mad dogs and englishmen going out in the noonday sun.

Kos kiddies should be wetting themselves over what Hillary is going to do to torpedo the S.S. Obama this year. Rest assured if McCain gets in she will do all she can to castrate Moulie and his little band of web malcontents influence in democratic circles so she can be large and in charge for the 2012 nomination. The Clintons have the memories of elephants and play rough.

130 DeathtotheSwiss  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:09:00pm

This makes today even better than it already was. After heading home from work with a migraine I resolved to sleep it off to the best of my ability. My wife, always the nurse, came in with my order of twelve Mystery Science Theater 3000 DVDs and now my migraine is almost completely gone (perhaps miraculously from watching Master Ninja I?) and a political figure is throwing a group under the bus for a good reason.

Things are looking up.

131 Sharmuta  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:09:22pm

re: #115 Student of Objectivism

According to the Libertarian Party platform, they stand for individual liberty, which is the antithesis of national socialism.

132 gman  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:09:26pm

re: #127 Student of Objectivism

Whose avatar? I tried following the thread but only ran into "sock puppets"

#24

133 wolfie  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:09:37pm

re: #121 gman

Not sure, but I reported the comment hoping Charles will see the avatar.

Maybe you could report this comment:
The avatar on comment #24 is very offensive.

134 beachkatie  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:11:00pm

re: #100 Sharmuta
Sorry i forgot the term.......:)

135 gman  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:11:31pm

re: #133 wolfie

Maybe you could report this comment:
The avatar on comment #24 is very offensive.

Thanks.

136 Student of Objectivism  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:11:37pm

re: #132 gman

Thanks. Before I couldn't see it, and now I can.

137 Bob in Breckenridge  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:11:57pm

re: #129 offendi

How about NOT using racist words?

138 North95  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:12:29pm

Charles is not going to like that avatar Don Black. I suggest you change it before he blocks you.

139 Shaky Louie  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:12:54pm

Whoa! I checked #24, That IS NOT funny. Poor taste, yes. Funny? No.

140 DeathtotheSwiss  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:13:56pm

re: #24 Don Black

We still have Ron Paul.

"WE" still have Ron Paul?

I don't know if you're a storm front nerdzi or if your sense of humor is just too out of whack for the rest of us, but you might want to explain yourself.

141 offendi  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:13:57pm

re: #137 Bob in Breckenridge

What is a racist word in the post?

142 Cap'n DOC  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:14:06pm

re: #12 zombie

Yup. :o)

143 Student of Objectivism  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:14:07pm

re: #131 Sharmuta

But they see liberty as axiomatic, and not dependent on anything else. If you look into the words from LP-associated people, esp. presidential cannidates, you'd be disgusted.

144 nyc redneck  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:14:18pm

re: #113 buzzsawmonkey

When I was a Boy Scout, we used to collect old Christmas trees, lop off the branches, and use the trunks as poles to practice lashings and timber hitches.

i'm going to try my hand at making twig out door items. fresh cut saplings bent and shaped and a drill to put in the screws. tables, garden arches, trellises that kind of thing.

145 Bob in Breckenridge  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:14:58pm

Moulie.

146 opnion  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:15:18pm

re: #89 DeathtotheSwiss

Does this mean that Obama has to give back the support of the Nation of Islam and William Ayers?

This may have already been said. Larry Sabado, a prof at U of Virginia on Fox this morning described Obama resigning the Church as an act of self sacrifice!
Totally ludicrous, but you just know that there is more of that liberal spinning to continue.

147 goddessoftheclassroom  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:15:26pm

re: #112 Bob in Breckenridge

re: #83 looking closely

re: #84 Slumbering Behemoth

re: #92 NJDhockeyfan

re: #101 Alouette

It happened because I'm watching the Red Wings-Penguins while slicing them. BTW, Penguins up 2-1, 3rd period about to start.

OMG, I don't dare follow the game because I'm convinced I'm a jinx! I want the Penguins to win so badly!

148 Edouard  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:16:03pm

re: #140 DeathtotheSwiss

"WE" still have Ron Paul?

I don't know if you're a storm front nerdzi or if your sense of humor is just too out of whack for the rest of us, but you might want to explain yourself.

Don Black is in fact the name of Stormfront's head honcho...

149 Bob in Breckenridge  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:16:29pm

Now it's 2-2!

150 jpfletcher  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:16:41pm

re: #12 zombie

I can access it.

151 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:16:42pm
152 coquimbojoe  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:16:51pm

re: #145 Bob in Breckenridge

Moulie.

Careful my friend, that is the 'N' word in Italian (yes, yes, I know it really means eggplant, but seriously, it is offensive.

153 Bob in Breckenridge  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:16:57pm

re: #141 offendi

If not, what does it mean?

154 Lucius Septimius  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:17:26pm

re: #147 goddessoftheclassroom

We'll have to agree to disagree on that one. Red Wings fan -- sorry.

155 karmic_inquisitor  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:17:37pm

Hey regarding Don Black ...

He is my sock puppet.

To those offended, that is not / was not my intent when I created the avatar months back on a thread that had to do with him.

The idea of the avatar is similar to the one picture here

[Link: s.buzzfeed.com...]

If that offends you, pan out and notice the picture in context

[Link: cdn.overstock.com...]

Also - remember the KKK in Blazing Saddles? Remember what was written on their backs?

I find Don Black et al reprehensible and worthy of ridicule. Just the same they are insidious and active and that activity has to be pointed out.

Don Black is still a Ron Paul supporter. And these creeps are mainstreaming.

I don't post Don Black often because I have to explain him too much, so he hereby dies.

156 BGOH  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:17:48pm

re: #133 wolfie

Uhhhhh...yeah. Report this one, too:

The avatar posted in post # 24 is not just offensive - it is reprehensible. I vote for the ban hammer.

157 Cognito  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:17:51pm

re: #24 Don Black

We still have Ron Paul.

I'm hoping you and yer icon thingy are ironic...

158 Bob in Breckenridge  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:18:01pm

re: #152 coquimbojoe

Careful my friend, that is the 'N' word in Italian (yes, yes, I know it really means eggplant, but seriously, it is offensive.

Wasn't me who typed it- I pointed out it was racist.

159 coquimbojoe  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:18:02pm

re: #152 coquimbojoe

Careful my friend, that is the 'N' word in Italian (yes, yes, I know it really means eggplant, but seriously, it is offensive.

Sorry! My bad, I see you were edumacating. I should have read upthread first!

Apologies.

160 DeathtotheSwiss  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:18:07pm

re: #148 Edouard

More than I wanted to know. Well, I guess this is one case of an obvious troll. What concerns me is that when I went to check the 15 comments he had posted previously by setting the search date from his registration December 22nd, 2007 to today only the one comment surfaced. Is something wrong with the search Engine?

161 ParisParamus  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:18:15pm

OT: has anyone, including Charles, seen this? It's horrific

162 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:18:18pm
163 Slumbering Behemoth  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:18:28pm

re: #118 Bob in Breckenridge

NJDhockeyfan's advice is very prudent (also something that should only happen ONCE).

164 Cognito  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:18:29pm

re: #155 karmic_inquisitor

Ah.

165 goddessoftheclassroom  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:19:00pm

re: #149 Bob in Breckenridge

Now it's 2-2!

See? DON'T POST THE SCORE ANY MORE, PLEASE! If I see it, the Pens will lose!

166 stevieray  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:19:01pm

re: #145 Bob in Breckenridge

Moulie.

Uhhh... its a nickname for Markos Moulitsas [the founder of the Daily Kos], not some obscure racial epithet.

167 itellu3times  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:19:27pm

Well, it's Russ Verney who said this, not Bob Barr (almost wrote "Babar", hmm, ...) his own self. And even so, he left the door open a crack, excluding people who don't want everyone treated equally under the law.

Let's wait the 48 hours on this, at least.

168 Bob in Breckenridge  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:19:36pm

re: #159 coquimbojoe

Sorry! My bad, I see you were edumacating. I should have read upthread first!

Apologies.

No problem.

169 Sharmuta  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:19:45pm

re: #143 Student of Objectivism

I fail to see how national socialism and the Libertarian party have anything in common.

170 DeathtotheSwiss  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:20:01pm

re: #155 karmic_inquisitor

Well, err, I get it. No hard feelings.

171 wolfie  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:20:17pm

re: #156 BGOH

Done!

172 unrealizedviewpoint  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:20:35pm

We shouldn't ought'a need congratulate any man for doing what's right. It should be commonplace and expected. But, that said, Thumbs Up Barr!
Now, if you will simply re-examine your Iraq policy, and your overall end the war on Islamofascism policies I'd consider supporting your candidacy.

173 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:20:52pm

The Pen's goalie is working hard this period. Where's the defense?

174 BGOH  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:22:27pm

re: #155 karmic_inquisitor

Well, at least that makes some amount of reasonable sense. Still, I think the post should be deleted and your sock puppet's account disbanded. All that kind of humor does is provide fodder for the LLL's and Moby's who want to label all of us racists.

175 Sharmuta  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:22:45pm

re: #143 Student of Objectivism

And WTF? Liberty is axiomatic?

176 itellu3times  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:23:02pm

Hey, Fox News has the "inadequate black male" lady on the front page!

177 beachkatie  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:23:08pm

re: #161 Prosperous
Was it jihad gone wild?

178 DesertSage  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:23:22pm

re: #143 Student of Objectivism

Aren't you the one who advocated nuking Iran...preemptively?

179 Silhouette  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:24:15pm

re: #115 Student of Objectivism

Like it or not, bad people and "hate groups" have always associated with libertarians--child molesters, worshipers of pimps and drug dealers, people who were pro-confederacy in regard to the civil war, worshippers of the PLO, worshippers of state-destruction, etc. It follows from their fundamental positions.

I disagree it follows from their fundamental position of hate groups.

I understand how child molesters, pimps, and drug dealers might seek the removal of state-enforced rules that now prevent them from preying on their fellow man, but although I consider these people hateful, I don't call them hate groups.

As for real hate groups, the KKK, Nazis, etc., each requires a group effort, be it a state or a robed organization, to oppress the group they hate. Therefore, their fundamental positions would be opposite to libertarianism. They are, at their most fundamental, against individual liberty because that liberty would equally go to the individuals of the group they hate, and mainly, because they see people as parts of groups, not individuals.

180 Bob in Breckenridge  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:24:22pm

re: #141 offendi

What is a racist word in the post?

Okay, I misread your meaning. When you typed moulie, I thought it was a racist remark about Obama. I'm sorry. I missed the context.

181 offendi  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:24:55pm

re: #166 stevieray

Uhhh... its a nickname for Markos Moulitsas [the founder of the Daily Kos], not some obscure racial epithet.

Thanks, exactly. I don't do racial epitaphs.

182 Student of Objectivism  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:26:22pm

re: #169 Sharmuta

I am not saying they have a lot in common, I am just saying that if you stick to actual libertarian ideas, those of Rothbard and his ilk, you cannot condemn Nazis.

But if you choose to act against your own beliefs and condemn Nazis, go ahead I say.

I would say both National Socialism and libertarianism both lead to dictatorship, if you follow their formulators' positions logically.

183 Slumbering Behemoth  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:27:02pm

re: #166 stevieray

How about we NOT use that as a pet name for Markos? There are so many others to chose from.

184 Cognito  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:27:08pm

Uvula.

185 offendi  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:27:19pm

re: #180 Bob in Breckenridge

No problem Bob, and thanks. I understand its wise to make sure people who try to use posts here for their own agendas don't get cannon fodder. I will be more clear in the future.

186 snowcrash  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:27:41pm

re: #181 offendi
I am sorry I dinged you down for the same interpretation of moulie coquimbojoe and bob had.

187 Lucius Septimius  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:27:44pm

re: #183 Slumbering Behemoth

How about we NOT use that as a pet name for Markos? There are so many others to chose from.

Like "moron"?

188 Cognito  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:27:52pm

Nuptuals.

189 Syrah  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:27:54pm

re: #182 Student of Objectivism

Nothing that I have read of Rand led in that direction.

Could you explain?

190 Cognito  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:28:30pm

Paradiddle.

191 Reno911  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:28:39pm

Truth be told; my core beliefs are closer to the Libertarian party candidate than either the Democratic or Republican candidates.

Does that make me a bad person?

192 Cognito  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:29:11pm

Defenestrate.

193 jaunte  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:29:27pm

75% correct spelling

194 Sharmuta  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:29:34pm

re: #182 Student of Objectivism

I think you're confused.

195 Cognito  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:29:40pm

(Shoulda been 'nuptials,' that is.)

196 Mars Needs Neocons  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:29:46pm

re: #30 ethanxxx

I still see people driving around with Kerry/Edwards stickers on their cars. My 11 year old reminds them what year it is when drive by them.

There are freaking RP signs all over my freaking city. They come close in number to the Hillary signs.

197 Cognito  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:30:21pm

Fluctuate.

Lugubrious.

Masticate.

198 DeathtotheSwiss  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:31:04pm

re: #174 BGOH

Well, at least that makes some amount of reasonable sense. Still, I think the post should be deleted and your sock puppet's account disbanded. All that kind of humor does is provide fodder for the LLL's and Moby's who want to label all of us racists.

Wait, I can't be racist you see...I'm a minority. Supreme Moral Authority resides with me and all my friends.

199 Silhouette  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:32:06pm

I can see leaving your Christmas lights up because you haven't gotten time to take them down.

But to turn them on every night?

I understand leaving the Ron Paul yard sign up because you haven't gotten time to take it down.

But it is summer. You know they take it up to mow, and then put it back.

200 goddessoftheclassroom  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:32:11pm

re: #192 Cognito

Defenestrate.

I frequently threaten my students with defenestration if they don't stop talking. When they ask me what it means, I tell them to look it up.

I've improved their vocabulary with a variety of unpleasant consequences. "Disemboweling" was a big hit, too.

201 Slumbering Behemoth  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:32:17pm

re: #187 Lucius Septimius

Markos Moronicus Moulitsas

/meep meep

202 unrealizedviewpoint  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:32:38pm

re: #182 Student of Objectivism

I would say both National Socialism and libertarianism both lead to dictatorship, if you follow their formulators' positions logically.

huh? bong water?

203 Noam Sayin'  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:32:55pm

Pedant

204 kcladderman  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:33:02pm

re: #196 Mars Needs Neocons
My step brother still has his Ron Paul sign in his yard.
Of course he also believes in weather machines that cause hurricanes and drunken tourists getting their kidneys cut out in Vegas.

205 offendi  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:33:08pm

re: #186 snowcrash

I am sorry I dinged you down for the same interpretation of moulie coquimbojoe and bob had.

Ah, no problem, I try and be as resilient as my new hero Hillary, except I don't cry for public approval, don't wear pant suits ( as a guy) , and have never landed under severe Bosnian sniper fire.

206 stevieray  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:33:28pm

re: #183 Slumbering Behemoth

How about we NOT use that as a pet name for Markos? There are so many others to chose from.

Its okay by me.

207 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:33:51pm

re: #184 Cognito

Uvula.

Babs' Uvula

208 Sharmuta  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:33:56pm

re: #202 unrealizedviewpoint

Really not sure how an ideology that believes in protecting individual liberties can become a dictatorship, but maybe the student will elaborate.

209 Student of Objectivism  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:34:19pm

re: #178 DesertSage

No, I advocate bombing Iran into submission using the best weapons we can, ones that will be to our self-interest (nukes probably wouldn't be the best things to use). Destroying their government as soon as possible, while risking the least amount of American lives, i.e. using high-altitude bombers and artillery to devastate their country, even if it means bombing high population areas. This is all in retaliation--they initiated the use of force in 1979, and they are currently at war with us by proxy.

Afterward, go home. Don't help them rebuild unless they are willing to submit to our constitution.

210 cliffster  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:34:22pm

re: #198 DeathtotheSwiss

I am half minority. What does Half Supreme Moral Authority give me?

211 itellu3times  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:34:43pm

re: #192 Cognito

eponymous

212 PRCS  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:35:12pm

"Anyone with love in their heart for our country and for every resident of our country regardless of race, religion, nationality or sexual orientation is welcome with open arms."

Sorry, congressman, I simply do NOT have love in my heart for those American residents whose 'complete way of life' is antithetical to the United States Constitution, violates relevant American law, and views me, my wife, and my family (being 'unbelievers') as 'the vilest of creatures.

213 beachkatie  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:35:24pm

Actress Tatum O'Neil arrested trying to buy crack.......

214 Slumbering Behemoth  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:36:03pm

What is this, the MNDT?

/Monday Night Dictionary Thread

215 jaunte  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:36:06pm

re: #213 beachkatie

Amphiboly.

216 Sharmuta  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:36:28pm

re: #209 Student of Objectivism

So you favor Imperialism?

217 opnion  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:36:57pm

re: #210 cliffster

I am half minority. What does Half Supreme Moral Authority give me?

I know many minorities. I therefore claim vicarious moral authority.

218 nyc redneck  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:37:16pm

sure hope the rest of the world doesn't begrudge me too much, the bowl of pasta i just had for supper.
it was delicious. ooops, maybe i should just say it was ok.

219 offendi  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:37:19pm

re: #209 Student of Objectivism

Actually the Israelis are going to do that for you, with some degree of Saudi complicity/passivity.

220 unrealizedviewpoint  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:37:40pm

re: #208 Sharmuta

Really not sure how an ideology that believes in protecting individual liberties can become a dictatorship, but maybe the student will elaborate.

Here I waz all concerned about the possibly of too much liberty (wonder if some folks can handle it), and this guy is spittin' bong water at us talkin' bout a dictatorship.

221 Cognito  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:38:07pm

re: #211 itellu3times

eponymous

That doesn't sound dirty!

222 nyc redneck  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:38:13pm

re: #213 beachkatie

Actress Tatum O'Neil arrested trying to buy crack.......

that was strictly research for a movie role ;)

223 Student of Objectivism  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:38:21pm

re: #175 Sharmuta

That is their claim. They state it openly. I can find a quote if you want.

224 cliffster  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:38:34pm

re: #217 opnion

Some of my best friends are people who know a lot of minorities

225 Syrah  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:38:43pm

re: #223 Student of Objectivism

That is their claim. They state it openly. I can find a quote if you want.

I would like to see one.

226 Mars Needs Neocons  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:38:52pm

re: #99 NJDhockeyfan

Fox News says Robert Byrd went to the hospital after acting lethargic & sluggish.

If that's all it takes Arlen Spector would have been sent years ago

227 Student of Objectivism  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:39:20pm

re: #216 Sharmuta

define Imperialism. I am in favor of defending the US, like we did in WWII.

228 Cognito  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:39:48pm

Matriculate.

(Yes, I'm that mature.)

229 DeathtotheSwiss  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:39:55pm

re: #210 cliffster

Half of infinity is still infinity.

230 Bob in Breckenridge  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:39:58pm

GOTC- Penguins tied it with 5 seconds left!

231 Ackomanyuki  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:40:07pm

Oh well, I guess Poker Face won't be playing at the inauguration either.

Good ridance

Bad Company

232 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:40:22pm

The hockey game is way exciting. All tied up with 34 seconds left.

233 Student of Objectivism  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:40:27pm

re: #219 offendi

I doubt it. Israel doesn't care to defend itself. It just gives land and money to its enemies and lets their people get bombed.

234 Bob in Breckenridge  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:40:30pm

re: #230 Bob in Breckenridge

GOTC- Penguins tied it with 5 seconds left!

whoops, 35 seconds.

235 Sharmuta  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:40:37pm

re: #227 Student of Objectivism

Imperialism (N):

the policy, practice, or advocacy of extending the power and dominion of a nation especially by direct territorial acquisitions or by gaining indirect control over the political or economic life of other areas

236 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:41:18pm

overtime

237 Lucius Septimius  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:41:21pm

re: #200 goddessoftheclassroom

I frequently threaten my students with defenestration if they don't stop talking. When they ask me what it means, I tell them to look it up.

I've improved their vocabulary with a variety of unpleasant consequences. "Disemboweling" was a big hit, too.

I threaten to disembowel students on a regular basis.

238 itellu3times  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:41:38pm

re: #221 Cognito

That doesn't sound dirty!

He gaped at her eponymous paradiddles.

239 DeathtotheSwiss  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:42:20pm

re: #238 itellu3times

That doesn't sound right...you from around here boy?

[Link: www.mst3k.org...]

240 Mars Needs Neocons  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:43:21pm

re: #187 Lucius Septimius

Like "moron"?

Or asshat

241 Cognito  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:43:29pm

re: #238 itellu3times

He gaped at her eponymous paradiddles.

Come on. Let's be professional here:

"She penalize him by kicking him in the coccyx."

242 lawhawk  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:43:47pm

Way OT:

Anyone trying to catch my blog tonight might find it a wee bit out of sorts. I'm busy with upgrades.

Finally made the jump to a three column setup, but have to manually update all the widgets. If there's anything special you'd like to see me add, lemme know by email.

243 Lucius Septimius  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:44:18pm

re: #240 Mars Needs Neocons

Or asshat

I've always been fond of "asswipe" as well.

Or "dickhead," which is how my father referred to all of my sister's boyfriends (and it was, I must say, a generally accurate appraisal).

244 GoJeepGo  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:44:28pm

re: #210 cliffster

I am half minority. What does Half Supreme Moral Authority give me?

I'm an individual, which makes me the smallest minority there is! I hereby claim absolute moral authority!

245 Sharmuta  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:44:57pm

nazis properly belong on the left, with their other socialist friends, not among political parties that espouse equality, liberty and less government.

246 Lucius Septimius  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:45:00pm

re: #241 Cognito

Come on. Let's be professional here:

"She penalize him by kicking him in the coccyx."

"Embrace caprophagy, thence morbidity."

247 Mars Needs Neocons  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:45:14pm

re: #204 kcladderman

My step brother still has his Ron Paul sign in his yard.
Of course he also believes in weather machines that cause hurricanes and drunken tourists getting their kidneys cut out in Vegas.

I know. Everytime I tried to give a talk at the local republicans gathering about Fred! in the past, all the Paulies wanted to know is why he won't talk about the secret working of the CFR

248 Lucius Septimius  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:45:24pm

re: #245 Sharmuta

nazis properly belong on the left, with their other socialist friends, not among political parties that espouse equality, liberty and less government.

Absolutely.

249 goddessoftheclassroom  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:45:54pm

re: #230 Bob in Breckenridge

GOTC- Penguins tied it with 5 seconds left!

OMG, DON'T MENTION THE GAME UNTIL IT'S OVER! Now they might lose in overtime--AARRGGHH!

/When the Steelers were lasti n the Super Bowl, I had to drive around the neighborhood during the last five minutes because I was so stressed.

250 Noam Sayin'  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:46:10pm

Just looking around Foxnews for something on Robert Byrd and found this.

HUNTINGBURG, Ind. — The parents of an 8-year-old southern Indiana girl who swallowed 20 marble-size steel balls and half as many magnets from a building set want the toy completely removed from stores.

The girl is eight and she swallowed ball bearings and magnets? Pulling the toy from stores won't improve your parenting.


Am I missing something? I'm not seeing anything out there on Sen. Byrd.

251 offendi  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:46:10pm

re: #226 Mars Needs Neocons

If that's all it takes Arlen Spector would have been sent years ago

Did you see that 80 something year old Lautenberg in your state is running again?

If this keeps up half the people being congratulated by Willard Scott on the "Today Show" for reaching their 100th birthday will be Congressmen.

252 Cognito  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:46:40pm

re: #246 Lucius Septimius

"Embrace caprophagy, thence morbidity."

Better. More aural bifurcation. Less vacillation.

253 DesertSage  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:46:53pm

re: #245 Sharmuta

nazis properly belong on the left, with their other socialist friends, not among political parties that espouse equality, liberty and less government.

You are the Bomb®!

254 offendi  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:47:58pm

re: #233 Student of Objectivism

Things may suprise you.

255 Mars Needs Neocons  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:48:13pm

re: #243 Lucius Septimius

I've always been fond of "asswipe" as well.

Or "dickhead," which is how my father referred to all of my sister's boyfriends (and it was, I must say, a generally accurate appraisal).

Lately I've been going with the term Weasel shit.

256 itellu3times  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:48:15pm

re: #250 Noam Sayin'

Am I missing something? I'm not seeing anything out there on Sen. Byrd.

[Link: www.foxnews.com...]

257 experiencedtraveller  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:48:15pm

McCain's speech at AIPAC today was brilliant. His foreign policy experience is practically unprecedented in American history. Obama is a lightweight in every category compared to this man.

McCain is an easy candidate to rally around in 2008.

Any flirtation with Bob Barr will be anti climatic and costly. In 2008 it is a Democratic electorate for many reasons. We should not distract John McCain's campaign for a dalliance with Bob Barr.

258 Lucius Septimius  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:48:42pm

re: #250 Noam Sayin'

Just looking around Foxnews for something on Robert Byrd and found this.

HUNTINGBURG, Ind. — The parents of an 8-year-old southern Indiana girl who swallowed 20 marble-size steel balls and half as many magnets from a building set want the toy completely removed from stores.

The girl is eight and she swallowed ball bearings and magnets? Pulling the toy from stores won't improve your parenting.


Am I missing something? I'm not seeing anything out there on Sen. Byrd.

I can imagine my three year old doing that by accident; I can't imagine an eight year old doing that for any reason. One maybe accidentally or an a dare, but twenty?

259 hermeneutics  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:48:55pm

Hi Lucius ... Sage, Mars, et. al.

Anything happening worth discussing?

260 itellu3times  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:49:18pm

re: #241 Cognito

"She penalize him by kicking him in the coccyx."

Too Beavis & Butthead.
/heh-heh, he said "penal"

261 Lucius Septimius  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:49:45pm

re: #259 hermeneutics

Hi Lucius ... Sage, Mars, et. al.

Anything happening worth discussing?

Heynicataseeya.

A few things here and there -- now that the kids are all asleep I can finally go to bed.

262 Student of Objectivism  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:49:59pm

re: #225 Syrah

"in the libertarian point of view, we don't support any moral codes. We support political liberty, says Ed Clark, the LP presidential cannidate in 1980"

Rothbard:

"This does not mean that individual libertarians are unconcerned with moral principles or with broader philosophical issues. As a political theory, libertarianism is a coalition of adherents from all manner of philosophic (or non-philosophic) positions including emotivism, hedonism, Kantian a priorism, and many others. My own position grounds libertarianism on a natural rights theory embedded in a wider system of Aristotelian-Lockean natural law and a realist ontology and metaphysics. [5] But although those of us taking this position believe that it only provides a satisfactory groundwork and basis for individual liberty, this is an argument within the libertarian camp about the proper basis and grounding of libertarianism rather than about the doctrine itself."

"The confusion here, and the basic problem with conservatives' understanding of libertarianism, is that libertarianism per se does not offer a comprehensive way of life or system of ethics, as do, say, conservatism and Marxism. This does not mean in any sense that I am personally opposed to a comprehensive ethical system; quite the contrary. It simply means that libertarianism is strictly a political philosophy, confined to what the use of violence should be in social life. (As I have written above, libertarianism maintains that violence should be strictly limited to the defense of the rights of person and property against violent intervention.) Libertarianism does not talk about virtue in general (apart from the virtue of maintaining liberty), simply because it is not equipped to do so. As Professor Tibor Machan has pointed out, libertarianism is a "political doctrine . . . a claim as to what is permissible for human beings to do toward each other by means of the aid of force or its threat, nothing more"."

Link: Rothbard's words

263 DeathtotheSwiss  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:50:01pm

re: #244 GoJeepGo

I'm an individual, which makes me the smallest minority there is! I hereby claim absolute moral authority!

That's cheating...and you know what I say about cheating?

If you're not cheating you're not trying.

264 Cognito  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:50:08pm

re: #258 Lucius Septimius

I can imagine my three year old doing that by accident; I can't imagine an eight year old doing that for any reason. One maybe accidentally or an a dare, but twenty?

Here's the weird thing.

I can imagine a three-year-old doing it.

I can't imagine an eight-year-old doing it.

Yet, I can imagine a 19-year-old doing it.

265 Mars Needs Neocons  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:50:11pm

re: #251 offendi

Did you see that 80 something year old Lautenberg in your state is running again?

If this keeps up half the people being congratulated by Willard Scott on the "Today Show" for reaching their 100th birthday will be Congressmen.

Ain't my state buddy. I'm way further west and almost in Canuckistan.

266 offendi  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:50:17pm

re: #213 beachkatie

Actress Tatum O'Neil arrested trying to buy crack.......

Is Tatum an Obama supporter? Just wondering.

267 Lucius Septimius  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:50:45pm

re: #264 Cognito

Here's the weird thing.

I can imagine a three-year-old doing it.

I can't imagine an eight-year-old doing it.

Yet, I can imagine a 19-year-old doing it.

I work with them on a daily basis. 18-20 year olds are toddlers with sex drives.

268 elrushbuni  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:50:49pm

That "CommentSpy" doohickey is actually pretty cool.

269 hermeneutics  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:50:52pm

re: #261 Lucius Septimius

Oh, Lucius. Sleep well. I hope the little ones don't awaken you until the morning.

On a scale of 1 to 10, how was your day?

270 Student of Objectivism  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:51:45pm

re: #235 Sharmuta

I don't mean that Iran should be a US state. I only mean that Iran is a legitimate state so long as it protects the rights of its citizens and the citizens of other nations. The essential issue is that they adopt a constitution that protects individual rights. Nothing else is acceptable.

271 offendi  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:51:51pm

re: #265 Mars Needs Neocons

Sorry, was referring to NJDevils person.

272 Mars Needs Neocons  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:51:52pm

re: #269 hermeneutics

Oh, Lucius. Sleep well. I hope the little ones don't awaken you until the morning.

On a scale of 1 to 10, how was your day?

Just bitchin about Raun Paul signs, sleeping senators, and nicknames for Kos.

273 hermeneutics  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:52:45pm

Anybody know why the whitey tape wasn't released?

274 Noam Sayin'  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:52:52pm

re: #256 itellu3times

Thanks. Don't know why I can't find it on the front page. First headline I saw was "The Last Hurrah?" and I thought, 'Well, that's a little cold.'

275 DesertSage  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:53:14pm

re: #259 hermeneutics

Hi Lucius ... Sage, Mars, et. al.

Anything happening worth discussing?

Student of Objectivism wants to commence bombing Iran into oblivion asap....is that worth discussing?
:')

276 Mars Needs Neocons  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:53:36pm

re: #271 offendi

Sorry, was referring to NJDevils person.

Thas ok. Spent some time in Jersey for Air Base Ground Defense training, hit the boardwalk, but didn't like it much. It seemed fake, the fancy ass casinos on the boardwalk were fronting these nasty looking apartments. It was like some old hollywood set with all the false fronts.

Sorry to all Jersey lizards, it just wasn't comfy for a country lizard.

277 Lucius Septimius  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:53:44pm

re: #269 hermeneutics

Oh, Lucius. Sleep well. I hope the little ones don't awaken you until the morning.

Number three son will undoubtedly wake me up around 5:00.

On a scale of 1 to 10, how was your day?

I'll give it a 7. The morning was rough and my homecoming after work less than inspiring, but I did get to spend the afternoon in a really cool faculty seminar on Petrarch given by a colleague; tomorrow we're doing several of Montaigne's essays. All of this is build up for "As you like it" and "King Lear" later in the week.

278 goddessoftheclassroom  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:53:55pm

re: #260 itellu3times

Too Beavis & Butthead.
/heh-heh, he said "penal"

That's one of the words in our school's 8th grade vocab book. What's worse is when a naive student reads it aloud as "penile."

279 stevieray  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:54:00pm

re: #250 Noam Sayin'

Just looking around Foxnews for something on Robert Byrd and found this.

HUNTINGBURG, Ind. — The parents of an 8-year-old southern Indiana girl who swallowed 20 marble-size steel balls and half as many magnets from a building set want the toy completely removed from stores.

The girl is eight and she swallowed ball bearings and magnets? Pulling the toy from stores won't improve your parenting.

They ought to feed her some springs and a nice, light machine oil. A balanced diet is important to a growing child.

280 Cognito  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:54:01pm

re: #273 hermeneutics

Anybody know why the whitey tape wasn't released?

I kind of suspect it ain't real.

So far there seems only to be a big fluffy cloud of blog speculation and gossip. Nary a fact to be found.

It'll be politically fantastic if it surfaces, though.

281 itellu3times  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:54:06pm

While we're on the Fox news site:

way OT:
[Link: www.foxnews.com...]
Surgeons Remove 16 Steel Washers From Man's 'Nether Region'

I hesitated to click on it, even on a "respectable" news site, and I must say, the lack of detail is remarkable, and while perhaps salutory, it doesn't seem like the best journalism to run it at all.

282 DesertSage  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:54:16pm

re: #266 offendi

Is Tatum an Obama supporter? Just wondering.

Maybe she's a super-delegate?

283 Lucius Septimius  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:54:17pm

re: #273 hermeneutics

Anybody know why the whitey tape wasn't released?

I've been wondering the same thing.

284 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:54:43pm
285 unrealizedviewpoint  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:54:55pm

re: #258 Lucius Septimius

I can imagine my three year old doing that by accident; I can't imagine an eight year old doing that for any reason. One maybe accidentally or an a dare, but twenty?

Brings to mind the MASH episode when Klinger sat down to eat a jeep.

286 itellu3times  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:54:58pm

re: #278 goddessoftheclassroom

That's one of the words in our school's 8th grade vocab book. What's worse is when a naive student reads it aloud as "penile."

Maybe not so naive?

287 sadhu  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:54:59pm

Who is Senator McCain's speechwriter? I am listening to his AIPAC preso. It's awesome.

288 hermeneutics  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:55:04pm

re: #275 DesertSage

ohhhh, I'm not sure I want to touch that one.
re: #277 Lucius Septimius


Okay, here goes: How about taking out the nuclear reactors and leaving the civilian population relatively intact?

289 sngnsgt  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:55:13pm

OT:

OT Wings & Pens tied @ 3 going into OT

290 Syrah  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:55:32pm

re: #262 Student of Objectivism

So how does that necessarily lead to a dictatorship?

I can see that Rothbard is arguing that Libertarianism is an amoral political philosophy. That does not in itself argue for the necessity of a dictatorship.

Explain more please.

291 hermeneutics  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:55:41pm

re: #277 Lucius Septimius

I"m jealous of your seminars!

292 Mars Needs Neocons  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:55:54pm

Hey, off whatever the topic was, does anyone know if Savage wound up in jail the other night? I haven't been able to check here the last few nights and never found out how the story ended.

293 Student of Objectivism  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:55:55pm

re: #202 unrealizedviewpoint

we all know how nazism leads to dicatorship.

The heart of libertarianism is anti-ideas, or a little bit more correctly, anarchy, which some of them state openly. The godfather of libertarianism, Murray Rothbard put forth the idea of "private governments" or "anarcho-capitalism", where people shop around for different governments in an area. So, instead of one gov. in the US, there are many, which of course turns into gang warfare, and eventually one gang wins and then we have a dictatorship.

294 goddessoftheclassroom  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:56:38pm

re: #286 itellu3times

Maybe not so naive?

No, in the instances I'm remembering, the kid didn't even know what she was saying. It took a great deal of effort on my part not to giggle.

295 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:56:41pm
296 Student of Objectivism  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:56:43pm

re: #290 Syrah

see my new comment

297 Lucius Septimius  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:57:22pm

re: #291 hermeneutics

I"m jealous of your seminars!

I'm lucky to have some sane and sensible colleagues. We got an NEH grant years ago to run these things -- four each summer that last for a week and give us a chance to learn something about common or frequently used texts in the core curriculum. Mostly people do it in house, but occasionally we'll bring in an outsider.

298 Mars Needs Neocons  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:57:28pm

re: #295 taxfreekiller

A "whitey tape" will not change the fact, Obama is a freaking fraud.

tfk good to see you. Short posts tonight, tired or new meds. (just kidding)

299 nyc redneck  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:57:44pm

re: #292 Mars Needs Neocons

Hey, off whatever the topic was, does anyone know if Savage wound up in jail the other night? I haven't been able to check here the last few nights and never found out how the story ended.

what happened?

300 Buster Bunny  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:57:49pm

They got a sniper shooting a US soldier on Liveleak as well.

And a whole lot worse.

Who is publishing this crap ?

PLEASE DO NOT CLICK IF OFFENDED BY THE PREVIOUS VIDEO
also note the listed comparables on the sidebar.

These sickos are getting off on this.

/Bewildered Bunny

301 stevieray  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:57:52pm

re: #273 hermeneutics

Anybody know why the whitey tape wasn't released?

I think the "big news" was the release of a partial transcript of a small section of the tape. I don't think that Larry Johnson goofball has a copy of the tape... I think he is just a naive conduit for a big player behind the scenes.

302 itellu3times  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:58:08pm

re: #293 Student of Objectivism

So anarchy is unstable, a government will always evolve?

/ducking for cover

303 pat  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:58:29pm

re: #273 hermeneutics

LOL. And I am still waiting for the Roswell tapes.

304 Mars Needs Neocons  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:59:05pm

re: #299 nyc redneck

what happened?


Short version,

Bad Storm
Savage back from road
Daughters BF take her and runs off
Daughter turns cellphone off
Savage heads to kick bf druggie scumbag ass between ears.

305 pat  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:59:28pm

Anarchy is always followed by Tyranny.

306 hermeneutics  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:59:29pm

re: #280 Cognito

Cognito, I think its real. There are far too many details floating around the blogosphere/MEM for it to be non-existent. I also don't think the Johnson guy (not ours!) has the tape. Rumors are that it resides at Fox.

I was on Johnson's blog this morning when he wrote there was no more to his revelation than the fact that the tape was obtained by one of the other Republican contenders (no name).

I guess I'm surprised Johnson made such a big deal out of the tape when he had NEVER SEEN IT.

307 goddessoftheclassroom  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:59:47pm

Good night, dear Lizards. I've got to move to a new class room tomorrow and finish up some end-of-year chores. Have a great evening.

308 nyc redneck  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 7:59:53pm

re: #304 Mars Needs Neocons

Short version,

Bad Storm
Savage back from road
Daughters BF take her and runs off
Daughter turns cellphone off
Savage heads to kick bf druggie scumbag ass between ears.

oh jesus.

309 unrealizedviewpoint  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 8:00:02pm

re: #293 Student of Objectivism

we all know how nazism leads to dicatorship.

The heart of libertarianism is anti-ideas, or a little bit more correctly, anarchy, which some of them state openly. The godfather of libertarianism, Murray Rothbard put forth the idea of "private governments" or "anarcho-capitalism", where people shop around for different governments in an area. So, instead of one gov. in the US, there are many, which of course turns into gang warfare, and eventually one gang wins and then we have a dictatorship.

Sounds like a freekin'cool movie man, gimme a hit.

/only kidding round

310 Student of Objectivism  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 8:00:23pm

re: #302 itellu3times

anarchy is anarchy, and it easily leads to one gang dominating others, the rule of force, etc, which easily becomes a dictatorship.

In any case, it leads to lots of bad stuff!

311 Mars Needs Neocons  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 8:00:32pm

re: #308 nyc redneck

oh jesus.

xactly

312 gman  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 8:00:42pm

re: #262 Student of Objectivism

"in the libertarian point of view, we don't support any moral codes. We support political liberty, says Ed Clark, the LP presidential cannidate in 1980"

Rothbard:

"This does not mean that individual libertarians are unconcerned with moral principles or with broader philosophical issues. As a political theory, libertarianism is a coalition of adherents from all manner of philosophic (or non-philosophic) positions including emotivism, hedonism, Kantian a priorism, and many others. My own position grounds libertarianism on a natural rights theory embedded in a wider system of Aristotelian-Lockean natural law and a realist ontology and metaphysics. [5] But although those of us taking this position believe that it only provides a satisfactory groundwork and basis for individual liberty, this is an argument within the libertarian camp about the proper basis and grounding of libertarianism rather than about the doctrine itself."

"The confusion here, and the basic problem with conservatives' understanding of libertarianism, is that libertarianism per se does not offer a comprehensive way of life or system of ethics, as do, say, conservatism and Marxism. This does not mean in any sense that I am personally opposed to a comprehensive ethical system; quite the contrary. It simply means that libertarianism is strictly a political philosophy, confined to what the use of violence should be in social life. (As I have written above, libertarianism maintains that violence should be strictly limited to the defense of the rights of person and property against violent intervention.) Libertarianism does not talk about virtue in general (apart from the virtue of maintaining liberty), simply because it is not equipped to do so. As Professor Tibor Machan has pointed out, libertarianism is a "political doctrine . . . a claim as to what is permissible for human beings to do toward each other by means of the aid of force or its threat, nothing more"."

Link: Rothbard's words

You're talking about libertarianism in the strictest sense of the word.

Personally, I like the Right-Libertarianism (Republitarian) branch that Larry Elder often speaks of.

313 Kreuzueber Halbmond  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 8:01:07pm

re: #305 pat

Uhh, bureaucratic tyranny is what we have NOW.

314 hermeneutics  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 8:01:33pm

re: #297 Lucius Septimius

Oh, I got one of those NEH summer grant several years ago. I got to study Hegel for the summer -- great fun. At Fordham.

Unfortunately, I found out I was pregnant -- again! -- two days after I arrived. I spent the summer trying not to vomit on the conference table. It took real concentration!

315 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 8:01:44pm
316 Lucius Septimius  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 8:02:10pm

re: #293 Student of Objectivism

we all know how nazism leads to dicatorship.

The heart of libertarianism is anti-ideas, or a little bit more correctly, anarchy, which some of them state openly. The godfather of libertarianism, Murray Rothbard put forth the idea of "private governments" or "anarcho-capitalism", where people shop around for different governments in an area. So, instead of one gov. in the US, there are many, which of course turns into gang warfare, and eventually one gang wins and then we have a dictatorship.

There are historical links between the anarcho-syndicalist movements in France and Italy in the late nineteenth century and the origins of fascism in Italy and Spain. Much of it has to do with the privileging of theory over action and the forms of organization. There's more to say on the topic, but I'm absolutely exhausted and have to go to bed. Good account of the connections in Gerald Brenan's book on the origins of the Spanish Civil War, The Spanish Labyrinth.

317 Killian Bundy  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 8:02:40pm

re: #273 hermeneutics

Anybody know why the whitey tape wasn't released?

It doesn't exist? Here's the apparent controversy:

Is the Michelle Obama Tape a Matter of Enunciation?

Apparently, if the tape ever comes to light, her words will sound something like:

Whitey cut folks off Medicaid?
Whitey let New Orleans drown?
Whitey do nothing about Jena?
Whitey put us in Iraq for no reason?*

...when the intended message is,

Why'd he cut folks off Medicaid?
Why'd he let New Orleans drown?
Why'd he do nothing about Jena?
Why'd he put us in Iraq for no reason?

/if there is a tape and it's ever released, it should be fairly easy to tell the difference

318 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 8:02:45pm
319 DesertSage  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 8:03:32pm

re: #312 gman

You're talking about libertarianism in the strictest sense of the word.

Personally, I like the Right-Libertarianism (Republitarian) branch that Larry Elder often speaks of.

The Sage rocks!

320 Mars Needs Neocons  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 8:03:33pm

re: #315 taxfreekiller

#298

We worked our ass's off all day today with the Texas House members, we think we have them ready to use the "Sunset" provision in our State Constitution and "Sunset the Texas Dept. of Transportation" that is pushing the Trans Texas Corridor. The idea is to get the dam
money cult out of it and put in under management that only the state ledg. can put in place, and then the management has to preform to a standard and not go beyond what the ledg. sets as the norms.

And there you go again doing the job americans don't want to do. (now that's the truth for that statement!) Keep at the work my friend. Up here we're trying to get the governors special interest groups hands off of things and back into the state legislature where they belong. It can be a real bitch with an apathetic voter base.

321 Lucius Septimius  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 8:03:48pm

re: #314 hermeneutics

Who was teaching it? The only person I know up there is Mary Nichols who did a seminar for us on Aristotle.

322 funky chicken  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 8:04:25pm

re: #4 Jetpilot1101

He may just earn my vote yet.

Uh, no way. It's good he doesn't want to play with Stormfront, but he's still just as bad as McCain on the border, and pretty much unhinged about most everything else.

Unless you really have had fundamental rights infringed by the Patriot Act or something...

323 DesertSage  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 8:04:38pm

re: #318 song_and_dance_man

Who the heck is Bob Barr?

Former congressman from Georgia, maybe related to Roseanne.

324 Cognito  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 8:04:49pm

re: #306 hermeneutics

Cognito, I think its real. There are far too many details floating around the blogosphere/MEM for it to be non-existent.

That means nothing, though -- if it did, we'd live in a world full of alien abductions, wolf-child births and brilliant politicians. None of those things are real either. Or at least very few.

I also don't think the Johnson guy (not ours!) has the tape. Rumors are that it resides at Fox.

Fox, like every other TV outlet, is a very simple operation. If the tape exists, they will publish it.

Tape = money.

325 Killian Bundy  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 8:04:53pm

re: #318 song_and_dance_man

Who the heck is Bob Barr?

/a Bill Clinton impeachment enthusiast

326 Student of Objectivism  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 8:05:30pm

re: #312 gman

From a poisonous base comes poisonous branches, that's all I'll say right now. The fundamentals are still wrong.

327 unrealizedviewpoint  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 8:05:44pm

re: #318 song_and_dance_man

Who the heck is Bob Barr?

[Link: www.bobbarr2008.com...]

328 Sharmuta  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 8:06:06pm

re: #318 song_and_dance_man

Who the heck is Bob Barr?

He was one of the House Managers during impeachment.

Here's more.

329 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 8:06:25pm
330 offendi  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 8:06:26pm

re: #276 Mars Needs Neocons

On a positive note New Jersey is unique in the country in terms of its number and variety of diners, its highly-rated beaches ( I have visited a few), its "gay American" resigned- in -disgrace Governor whose current public court fight with his former wife over child and spousal support is a media travesty, and its current Governor, a deposed head of a giant investment firm elected to solve the State's financial crisis but whose economic prescriptions to do so have been ridiculed and rejected by the public at large as pure nonsense.

So...um... what were you saying about New Jersey again?

331 pat  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 8:06:51pm

re: #313 Kreuzueber Halbmond

Uhh, bureaucratic tyranny is what we have NOW.


Not quite yet. But we move ever closer. In a large part because government is now by Commissions and Boards. Appointed. And often interested activist inimical to the cause being overseeing. Hence an Equal Opportunity Commission, means that employers and white males have less opportunity to expose inequality. Etc. Getting there. These Boards are unelected, make their own rules, do their own investigations, and issue judgment. Insanity.

332 Mars Needs Neocons  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 8:07:12pm

re: #330 offendi

On a positive note New Jersey is unique in the country in terms of its number and variety of diners, its highly-rated beaches ( I have visited a few), its "gay American" resigned- in -disgrace Governor whose current public court fight with his former wife over child and spousal support is a media travesty, and its current Governor, a deposed head of a giant investment firm elected to solve the State's financial crisis but whose economic prescriptions to do so have been ridiculed and rejected by the public at large as pure nonsense.

So...um... what were you saying about New Jersey again?

Great ...umm defense?

333 Racer X  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 8:07:26pm

re: #284 taxfreekiller

long words do not keep you from being full of shit excrement


fixed.

334 Sifty  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 8:07:27pm

Human nature will not allow anarchy to continue indefinitely.
Humans will always have some form of government. As social animals we will tend to congregate, and congregation creates problems, which creates government.

Even if it simply forceful government / slavery of the weak by the strong.

Complete libertarianism leads down the road to separate armed compounds and only having and keeping what you can defend from other humans.

But just in case, I have some old football pads that I can spray-paint black and decorate with spike and stuff.

ever notice how everyone wears football pads after the Apocalypse?

335 sadhu  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 8:07:41pm

@indythinker

back back back back back
to sportscasting where he was fun

336 Student of Objectivism  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 8:08:52pm

bye bye

337 Cognito  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 8:09:01pm

re: #317 Killian Bundy

Whitey cut folks off Medicaid?
Whitey let New Orleans drown?
Whitey do nothing about Jena?
Whitey put us in Iraq for no reason?*

vs.

Why'd he cut folks off Medicaid?
Why'd he let New Orleans drown?
Why'd he do nothing about Jena?
Why'd he put us in Iraq for no reason?

One of these makes sense, in English. One doesn't really. ("Whitey do nothing about Jena?" Really?)

Of course, as always with Obama, there's plenty to be annoyed by in the more likely series of statements, without any imagination at all.

338 Lucius Septimius  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 8:09:02pm

Night all. Play nice.

339 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 8:09:26pm
340 hermeneutics  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 8:09:44pm

re: #317 Killian Bundy

Are you kidding, Killian. This reads like a joke. A serious joke. If liberals try to peg as racism a commonsensical interpretation of the tape ... well, it won't work. Just play the tape. Let ordinary people decide.

THe non-existence of the tape was the final conclusion of the Geraghty. I suppose he's in the know.

341 gman  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 8:10:44pm

Wikipedia has 4 branches listed under Right-Libertarianism and only one of them, neolibertarianism, believes in strong foreign intervention.

I guess I'm a neolibertarian.

Just call me Neo (cue Matrix sound effects)

342 Mars Needs Neocons  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 8:11:34pm

re: #341 gman

Wikipedia has 4 branches listed under Right-Libertarianism and only one of them, neolibertarianism, believes in strong foreign intervention.

I guess I'm a neolibertarian.

Just call me Neo (cue Matrix sound effects)

I can sometimes accept libertarian ideas, but I have difficulty with drug legalization and isolationism.

343 Killian Bundy  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 8:11:39pm

re: #337 Cognito

One of these makes sense, in English. One doesn't really. ("Whitey do nothing about Jena?" Really?)

Of course, as always with Obama, there's plenty to be annoyed by in the more likely series of statements, without any imagination at all.

There's apparently another transcript circulating that's much more damning.

/it's all conjecture until a tape is released

344 Kreuzueber Halbmond  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 8:11:58pm

..."That whenever any form of government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shown that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government, and to provide new guards for their future security."...

It's our country. One day we'll have to take it back.

345 unrealizedviewpoint  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 8:12:15pm

re: #339 song_and_dance_man

Ah, the Libertarian candidate. I don't remember him at any of the debates.

Let's hope he's nowhere near the upcoming general. He will siphon off more McCain votes then Obama's.

346 hermeneutics  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 8:12:21pm

re: #321 Lucius Septimius

Gosh, I'm blanking out on his name. It was in the department of philosophy. The guy teaching it had come to Fordham from Hope College several years before (which I found interesting). He was Dutch Reformed. I guess I was surprised that Fordham would hire a Protestant philosopher.

347 offendi  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 8:13:45pm

re: #303 pat

LOL. And I am still waiting for the Roswell tapes.

If there was in fact extraterrestrial life there is no doubt that the democrats would already have an " Space Aliens for Obama Committee".

Case closed.

348 Sifty  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 8:14:37pm

re: #344 Kreuzueber Halbmond

meh. Give us two more Ronald Reagan's and we'll be back on track. Maybe even pick up a couple more stars on the flag.

It'll take more than the blue mold on the edges and a few loons to ruin this land completely.

349 Mars Needs Neocons  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 8:14:42pm

re: #347 offendi

If there was in fact extraterrestrial life there is no doubt that the democrats would already have an " Space Aliens for Obama Committee".

Case closed.

Who says they don't they are the master at hedging their bets.

350 unrealizedviewpoint  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 8:16:05pm

re: #345 unrealizedviewpoint

Let's hope he's nowhere near the upcoming general. He will siphon off more McCain votes then Obama's.

I need correct myself. He will be on the ballot, probably in at least 47 states. Hopefully he will not be in the debates, is my point.

351 Mars Needs Neocons  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 8:16:53pm

In fact STUPID CONSPIRACY THEORY TIME:

I think Obama may continue to say unbelievably stupid things up till the actual election. If he says something really stupid that drives almost all of his support away is there a way for Hillary to step in if he suffers "health problems". (Not wishing him bad health, actually thinking of a lie about his health to get him out quietly)

352 Slumbering Behemoth  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 8:18:06pm

re: #334 Sifty

ever notice how everyone wears football pads after the Apocalypse?

The hell you say!

/The only things that will survive are cockroaches and various bits of sports equipment.

353 Kreuzueber Halbmond  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 8:18:36pm

re: #348 Sifty

Note to self: Optimism - get some.

354 ccrnyc  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 8:19:34pm

The Libertarians have a candidate run in every presidential election, so they can get the 600,000 votes needed to receive matching funds.

355 Macker  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 8:21:43pm

re: #12 zombie

I am unable to access my own site.

Can you access it?

And if you can't, is there are way for me to determine why it's inaccessible at the moment?

I've got a report to upload and I can't even log on.

zombie, I can access your site, no problemo!

356 Slumbering Behemoth  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 8:21:47pm

re: #348 Sifty

It'll take more than the blue mold on the edges and a few loons to ruin this land completely.

Plus one!

357 Sharmuta  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 8:23:47pm

re: #336 Student of Objectivism

bye bye

Well- we can see you're the type to drop some intellectual mumbo jumbo and bail.

358 Sifty  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 8:24:06pm

re: #352 Slumbering Behemoth

I thought about becoming a giant steroidasaurus and call myself "The Humongous" after the Apocalypse, but the best I could do was just kinds try and not be so dough-y and maybe jog some on the weekends.

Football pads hide a lot of love-handles.

359 Syrah  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 8:24:25pm

re: #296 Student of Objectivism

see my new comment


Maybe its why I never gave Murry Rothbard much attention.

For one thing, to argue that a political system can be amoral is silly on its face. Humans are moral creatures and they make judgments on what is right or wrong. In community they legislate for and against certain behaviors. Some of this is made law, some is made custom, and some is made religion.

All states, even the narcissistic anarcho dystopia that Rothabard argues for is dependent on moral precepts, which in the everyman his own government ruductio ad absurdurn is the incarnation of the Hobbsian "nasty, brutish and short" - "might makes right" prehistoric moral outlook of the caveman.

Individual liberty in Rothbard's anti-libertarian fantasy is an impossibility. Only groups of like minded people can create a state governed by principles of individual liberty. Individuals in governments of one are just fodder for the more ruthless and unprincipled.

It is the ultimate irony that individual liberty cannot be enjoyed by one man against the world. That way only leads to madness.

360 Slumbering Behemoth  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 8:28:21pm

re: #358 Sifty

Just do that freaky King Buzzo thing to your hair, and call yourself "Toecutter". It's way easier.

361 Sharmuta  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 8:29:59pm

re: #359 Syrah

Is it also impossible, by definition, for anarchy to be an actual form of government?

362 rawmuse  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 8:34:36pm

re: #361 Sharmuta

yes

363 Syrah  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 8:39:15pm

re: #361 Sharmuta

Is it also impossible, by definition, for anarchy to be an actual form of government?

True enough.

As an aside.

As a Libertarian Party friend once told me, the libertarians suffer from Rule 2000. That is that in every political organization, there are roughly about 2000 nuts fruits and flakes enrolled as members and the Libertarian Party is run by that 2000.

364 slokat  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 8:44:01pm

re: #273 hermeneutics

Anybody know why the whitey tape wasn't released?

It wasn't self aware, and couldn't survive on it's own in a harsh environment?

//

365 Charles  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 8:45:38pm

re: #273 hermeneutics

Anybody know why the whitey tape wasn't released?

I'll take a wild guess - because it doesn't exist, and Larry Johnson is a fraud?

366 Hawaiian cocoNUT  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 8:47:57pm

Mr. Barr: does it include Pat Puchanan?

367 Sloppy  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 9:04:30pm

Sesquipedalianism. Rampant tonight . . .

368 gman  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 9:10:57pm

re: #326 Student of Objectivism

From a poisonous base comes poisonous branches, that's all I'll say right now. The fundamentals are still wrong.

Interesting conclusion and I would like to hear your thoughts on
neolibertarianism. It is inconsistent with fundamental libertarianism because of the strong foreign intervention component, but that's why I like it.

369 Killian Bundy  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 9:16:02pm

re: #365 Charles

I'll take a wild guess - because it doesn't exist, and Larry Johnson is a fraud?

/he's still bitterly clinging to his story, figured he would've given up after he couldn't produce the tape this morning

370 student of objectivism  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 9:31:46pm

re: #357 Sharmuta

I see you are one to ignore my posts in which I converse with others and explain my views.

I see you are one to assume something about me "leaving the thread", which is absolutely unjustified and absolutely unimportant.

371 student of objectivism  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 9:38:21pm

re: #368 gman

I disagree with any and all political philosophies that come from libertarianism. Libertarianism is just anarchy is disguise. There are better ideas out there.

372 Roger  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 9:39:07pm

I wish our system would allow a non-two-party candidate such as Barr to give his votes to another candidate he deems most ideologically overlapping in November. Be more interesting.

373 student of objectivism  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 9:40:14pm

re: #359 Syrah

Rothbard is the essense of libertarianism! He isn't anti-libertarian. He gave birth to it. He is certainly against actual liberty, i.e. individual rights.

374 gman  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 9:42:44pm

re: #371 student of objectivism

I disagree with any and all political philosophies that come from libertarianism. Libertarianism is just anarchy is disguise. There are better ideas out there.

What would you recommend?

375 Syrah  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 9:44:38pm

re: #373 student of objectivism

I think it is a cheap shot to libertarianism to shackle it to Rothbard. Rand yes. Rothbard, no.

Rothbard is kook.

376 apaulogist  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 9:47:48pm

re: #374 gman

objectivism, i'm guessing :)

377 dcweber  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 9:51:07pm

Charles, please don't dirty LGF with positive comments about this POS coward. Barr has no redeeming qualities and is quite possibly fwench.

378 gman  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 9:51:37pm

re: #376 apaulogist

objectivism, i'm guessing :)

No kidding. Duh

I must be getting tired.

379 apaulogist  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 10:02:13pm

re: #293 Student of Objectivism

I don't think that it is necessarily true that Rothbard's competing governments would turn into warring governments with an eventual dictatorship. I'm pretty confident that the places with less government will become more prosperous, and therefore, more able to defend themselves. But with less government, they are also less likely to attack other regions. But then again, I guess limited government did not stop early American expansion. Still, it seems conceivable that Rothbard's proposed system could be at least as stable as any other.

380 Fierce Guppy  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 10:18:15pm

re: #373 student of objectivism

Not all libertarian parties are as ideologically loose as the US one. New Zealand's LibertariaNZ was founded by Objectivists. The party leaders have always been Objectivist, and perusing through the list of party spokesmen I can recognise the names of a few other Objectivists in there.
[Link: www.libertarianz.org.nz...] They will keep it on the straight and narrow.

Tony.

381 Student of Objectivism  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 10:22:18pm

re: #375 Syrah

you got it backwards. It is extremely bad to link Rand to libertarianism. She is linked to it only because of the fact that the founders of libertarianism and the LP all knew Ayn Rand and stole her ideas and turned them into libertarianism, which is mainly trying to fuse lots of irrationality with a side of taking a small good point of her ideas and not giving her credit, or not enough.

Justin Raimundo, Rothbard , and John Hospers, and Walter Block, all got their start or were hugely inspired by Ayn Rand, and all of them stole from her ideas. Ron Paul says that racism is bad because it is a form of collectivism, was formulated and first said by Ayn Rand, which he doesn't credit. (Ron Paul also knows AR would be against him/is against libertarians, he said so himself, openly, fyi.)

Reason magazine is a cheap rip off of AR. "free minds and free markets" is an obvious, and so is the name of the magazine. The founder of Reason openly states this is the case.

Rothbard's "non-aggression principle" is from Ayn Rand. Absolutely no doubt about that.

The Mises Institute is dominated by Rothbardians...Lew Rockwell is a leader of it...and he is an advisor to Ron Paul if I remember correctly. Beginning to see the big picture?

Rand saw all this happening from day one and condemned all of them and was totally against libertarianism.

Observe Objectivism and Objectivists, then observe libertarians and libertarianism. The differences and the theft become clear.

382 Student of Objectivism  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 10:24:41pm

re: #380 Fierce Guppy

Libertarian Objectivist is a contradiction in terms. Read Peter Schwartz's "Libertarianism: The Perversion of Liberty"

383 Student of Objectivism  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 10:27:24pm

re: #374 gman

Yes, Objectivism. Read Ayn Rand and commentary from Objectivists.

384 Fierce Guppy  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 10:35:55pm

Ire: #382 Student of Objectivism

I have already read it. The Voice of Reason, p311. It's based on the state of the U.S. libertarianism in the mid 80's. The New Zealand edition of the libertarian party is much more Objectivist than the U.S. one ever was.

Tony.

385 gman  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 10:39:29pm

re: #383 Student of Objectivism

Yes, Objectivism. Read Ayn Rand and commentary from Objectivists.

I'll check it out. Thanks.

386 Sharmuta  Mon, Jun 2, 2008 11:57:52pm

re: #371 student of objectivism

I disagree with any and all political philosophies that come from libertarianism. Libertarianism is just anarchy is disguise. There are better ideas out there.

Anarchy is not a form of government.

387 thepresenceusmc  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 5:53:52am
If you analyze it I believe the very heart and soul of conservatism is libertarianism. I think conservatism is really a misnomer just as liberalism is a misnomer for the liberals–if we were back in the days of the Revolution, so-called conservatives today would be the Liberals and the liberals would be the Tories. The basis of conservatism is a desire for less government interference or less centralized authority or more individual freedom and this is a pretty general description also of what libertarianism is.-Ronald Reagan, 1975, Reason Magazine

Ok. So, tell me how Barr is a Libertarian nutjob again? Tell me again how libertarians are the ones abandoning their principles? Was Reagan wrong, and are we Libertarians all nutjobs? The way I see it, either Reagan was dead wrong and the libertarian haters are correct, or the GOP left the path and Reagan.

This is my theory: something is terribly amiss in the GOP, and McCain is merely a malignant symptom of "conservatism" abandoning its roots for greener (pun intended) liberal pastures? You can snipe at the libertarians all day long, but Reagan was right then and now.

I'll vote Barr, and I pledge to do everything possible to keep McShamnesty from being elected. "Conservatives" are welcome to come along or they can join the RINO's for 100 more years of Iraq, Bosnia, Afghanistan, Medicare, No Child Gets Ahead, etc.

The choice is yours, friends. Reagan or Bush. Goldwater or Rockefeller. This is 1980 all over again: Libertarian conservatism vs. Big-government RINO's...or Reagan vs. Rockefeller/Ford/Bush. Pick your side.

388 Kurosaki Ichigo  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 6:47:21am

Good for Bob Barr for disowning the racist storm front nut bags which is the white NAACP but i will not vote for 3rd party candidates even though McCain is a fake conservative. Cause unfortunately 3rd party candidates are unknown generally to the base and it will allow comrade Hillary/Obama to slide in to the oval office.


Fight the Power Defend Western Civilization!

389 Roger  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 7:02:26am

re: #386 Sharmuta

Anarchy is not a form of government.

Poor argument.

390 SuprKufr  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 9:04:33am

Bob Barr gets my vote. He was a sell-out when he was a Republican (you have to be a sell-out to have a career in the Republicrat party). Now that he's no longer pandering, he's standing up for the cause of individual liberty, which freaks the f*ck out of Socialists and Christ-puppets. Those drones truly enjoy being told what to think and what to do and feel threatened by anyone who doesn't fall in line.

391 Sharmuta  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 11:30:02am

re: #115 Student of Objectivism

On what libertarian grounds could they deny donations from Nazis? None.

So a politician has to take money from people they ideologically disagree with?

"To live, man must hold three things as the supreme and ruling values of his life: Reason, Purpose, Self-Esteem."

And yet you want to hold this against Bob Barr... I still think your initial premise is completely wrong. nazis are national socialists- they want more government intervention, and yet the Libertarian Party (whether you agree with them or not) does not stand for these things. They stand for individual liberty- among this is the freedom of association. Should they deny that right to themselves, and would that not be denying their platform and ideals more than rejecting aid from any and all corners?

392 Q  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 11:44:06am
Anyone with love in their heart for our country and for every resident of our country regardless of race, religion, nationality or sexual orientation is welcome with open arms.


Including, presumably, illegal aliens. Libertarians are notoriously unserious on the National Question.

393 SecondComing  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 1:15:00pm

Wow! Stromfront must be comprised of idiots(not a surprise). They sure haven't done their homework, Barr is half black!.

394 Student of Objectivism  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 6:42:36pm

re: #384 Fierce Guppy

But they still have small ties to other libertarians, and they reek of libertarianism. For instance, they list the corrupt US LP in their links and have a slogan "less government" which is very libertarian, i.e. it implicit means state-destruction, i.e. anarchy, not the pure promotion of the protection of individual rights.

Sure, they may be better than others, but some facts never cease to go away: Objectivism is better than libertarianism, most libertarians are aware of Objectivism, according to Objectivists from day one political action is almost useless and education is the key, specifically in the US. There cannot be political change without philosophical change.

395 Student of Objectivism  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 7:10:20pm

re: #386 Sharmuta

So what? They want to destroy all states. It isn't a form of gov. It's a bunch of crap.

396 Sharmuta  Tue, Jun 3, 2008 8:08:19pm

re: #394 Student of Objectivism

Objectivism is better than libertarianism

Why? You can't just keep repeating that and have us agree with you. Make a case.

re: #395 Student of Objectivism

Again- you're not making your case. Nor did you address my point.

397 Sacred Plants  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 2:44:00am

re: #387 thepresenceusmc

"If you analyze it I believe the very heart and soul of conservatism is libertarianism." (Ronald Reagan, 1975, Reason Magazine)

That is, in American conservatism libertarianism takes the place which is usually occupied by some ethnic supremacist collectivism in other national brands of conservatism.

Or at least did so in the last century. Had not Bin Laden flattened the icons of libertarianism we wouldn´t be talking this. On the other hand, objectivism always comes with the risk that the revered objects may be destroyed, so it could only serve as a temporary placeholder, to prepare conservatism for the soul-searching yet to come.

398 Roger  Wed, Jun 4, 2008 6:52:30am

You really live in a strange reality, W-lover, you really do.


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