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IBD: Obama's Plan to Disarm America

Sat, Jun 7, 2008 at 2:16:56 pm PDT

Investors Business Daily looks at another policy statement from Barack Obama that has gotten almost no media coverage: Obama’s Plan To Disarm The U.S.

The Obamatons [Hey, that sounds familiar! – ed.] of the mainstream media have failed to report one of the most chilling campaign promises thus far uttered by the presumptive Democrat nominee for president.

He made it before the Iowa caucus to a left-wing pacifist group that seeks to reallocate defense dollars to welfare programs. The lobbying group, Caucus for Priorities, was so impressed by Obama’s anti-military offering that it steered its 10,000 devotees his way.

In a 132-word videotaped pledge (still viewable on YouTube), Obama agreed to hollow out the U.S. military by slashing both conventional and nuclear weapons.

The scope of his planned defense cuts, combined with his angry tone, is breathtaking. He sounds as if the military is the enemy, not the bad guys it’s fighting. Here is a transcript:

“I’m the only major candidate who opposed this war from the beginning; and as president, I will end it.

“Second, I will cut tens of billions of dollars in wasteful spending. I will cut investments in unproven missile defense systems. I will not weaponize space. I will slow our development of future combat systems.

“I will institute an independent defense priorities board to ensure that the Quadrennial Review is not used to justify unnecessary defense spending.

“Third, I will set a goal for a world without nuclear weapons. To seek that goal, I will not develop nuclear weapons; I will seek a global ban on the production of fissile material; and I will negotiate with Russia to take our ICBMs off hair-trigger alert, and to achieve deep cuts in our nuclear arsenal.”

You can bet that Obama will not make this sweeping indictment of our security forces again as he tries to move to the center in the general election. But this is what he thinks, and this is what he plans to do.

UPDATE at 6/7/08 2:23:24 pm:

Here’s the video:

Youtube Video

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257 comments

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1 unrealizedviewpoint  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 2:17:55pm

About time we start seeing this somewhere.

2 galloping granny  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 2:18:46pm

So, what are his plans for signing over the nation and turning out the lights on Capitol Hill?

3 Ma Sands  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 2:18:48pm

Wouldn't it be neat if this were just more empty campaign promises..... :)


/ ):

4 Athos  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 2:19:37pm

Reagan brought us peace through strength.

Obama will bring us the illusion of peace from the reality of surrender.

5 winston06  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 2:19:49pm

A typical democrats' stance on defense of America

6 The Other Les  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 2:20:30pm

If that idiot has his way there will be another World War. And there's no guarantee that we will survive it let alone win it.

7 vbspurs  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 2:20:45pm

The rooster has come home to chicken.

8 dave in NC  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 2:20:57pm

nothing to see here, move along, now.

9 VegasRick  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 2:21:26pm

re: #6 The Other Les

If that idiot has his way there will be another World War. And there's no guarantee that we will survive it let alone win it.

This guy is really dangerous for us.

10 HelloDare  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 2:22:17pm

The best the democrats have to offer. BHO.

11 gibsonz  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 2:22:47pm

The guy is fast becoming...Moonbat Public Enemy #1

12 nyc redneck  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 2:23:40pm

individual citizens who don't own guns should now arm themselves.
the 2nd amendment will be his next focus.

13 HelloDare  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 2:25:13pm
14 kevinmumaw  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 2:25:16pm

Sounds like another potential McCain ad in the fall.

15 VegasRick  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 2:25:19pm

re: #12 nyc redneck

individual citizens who don't own guns should now arm themselves.
the 2nd amendment will be his next focus.

Great advise. I already own but plan to get a couple more.

16 dave in NC  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 2:25:25pm

re: #12 nyc redneck


2 9mm, a 45, a 38, and 3 22s.

17 Killian Bundy  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 2:26:01pm
Investors Business Daily looks at another policy statement from Barack Obama that has gotten almost no media coverage: Obama’s Plan To Disarm The U.S.

/here's the video

18 vapig  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 2:26:51pm

This man is terrifyingly dangerous.

19 HelloDare  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 2:26:58pm

re: #13 HelloDare

I see Killian Bundy spun the link off already.

20 Robert O.  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 2:27:00pm

For those interested, Operation Chaos continues:

[...] So as the commander-in-chief of US Operation Chaos, I would like to urge all of you who want to, to go to HillaryClinton.com and tell her what you think she ought to do.

Now, I want you to be polite. I don't want any snide comments, and I know that people have already done that, but I want those of you who are part of this audience to say whatever is in your heart to Mrs. Clinton about her effort to continue here, within the spirit of Operation Chaos, keeping chaos alive.

[Link: www.rushlimbaugh.com...]


All of us can be foot soldiers in this. For example, on YouTube, in the comments section of NYT, WaPo (etc), we can write messages of support and utmost sincere admiration for Hillary, honestly explaining why she's the best candidate for the Democrats, while simultaneously explaining the reasons why Obama is not fit to be Commander in Chief. Be sincere when you fawn over Hillary. You want people to know you are truly a diehard Hillary supporter. It may also help to do some gentle trashing of McCain at the same time to prove the point

There is a second part to Operation Choas. A lot of Hillary supporters are fuming at Obama and are contemplating voting for McCain. We can also help pour fuel on the flame by posing as Obama supporters, and write messages trashing Hillary and her supporters. If you go down this path, be rude, be arrogant, and be insulting. You want maximum backlash against Obama from Hillary supporters.

NOW IS THE BEST TIME TO SOW DISCORD if you do NOT want to see B. Hussein Osama (Islam's Manchurian Candidate) become President of the United States. The matter is urgent. Be wise!

21 Ma Sands  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 2:28:23pm

re: #18 vapig

In all ways.....

22 JeremyR  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 2:28:51pm

re: #16 dave in NC

2 9mm, a 45, a 38, and 3 22s.

All close range stuff. Get a good hunting rifle and learn to use it. The day is coming when we will need to defend our families and homes from the rising tide of insanity.

23 vbspurs  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 2:29:37pm

re: #17 Killian Bundy

/here's the video

Are you serious? I got chills listening to him list his goals to make America militarily weaker. He's Chavez without the beret.

24 MandyManners  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 2:29:54pm

That is the BHO that I know.

25 blutonazi98  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 2:30:33pm

i don't understand the problem. when the Messiah and his world healing powers are in charge why would anyone need a gun anyway?

26 song_and_dance_man[deleted]  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 2:30:45pm
27 dave in NC  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 2:30:49pm

re: #22 JeremyR


you mean like a 300 yd 270? 30-06?

28 missouri boy  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 2:30:52pm

re: #12 nyc redneck

individual citizens who don't own guns should now arm themselves.
the 2nd amendment will be his next focus.

The left has no regard for the constitution. Guns are the only topic, that will unite freedom loving Americans. There are more NRA members than dems and repubs combined.

29 vbspurs  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 2:31:01pm

NO, wait, I take that back. Even Chavez would defend his country to the death.

/sad

30 godfrey  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 2:31:32pm

Pap.

Everyone over 40 has heard all of this before. It was stupid then, and it is stupid now. Obama is a foreign policy laughingstock.

31 FredWM  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 2:31:33pm

I've also heard he plans to hollow out NASA on the theory that as we are at least 5 years ahead of anyone else on the planet we can afford to shift billions of dollars from space exploration into something really important like universal pre-k. Basically, BO believes that the United States is not an exceptional country and anything that tends to support such a view must be eliminated. Goodbye independent foreign policy, space exploration or a robust military. Hello, mega-welfare payments for contemplating your navel.

32 mama winger  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 2:32:00pm

I'm tired of sitting in the stairwell.

Look at Obama's known associates. They all seem to have a hatred for America, and look to me as if they would welcome its demise. Who is to say that Obama doesn't feel the same way? Perhaps he is not naive at all. Perhaps he is intent on seeing America go down.

33 HelloDare  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 2:32:06pm

Just the words you'd expect from a man with so many Marxist friends.

34 The Other Les  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 2:32:18pm

Disarmament is an engraved invitation to invasion and conquest. To believe otherwise is to willfully ignore history.

But then self-styled progressives are funny that way.

35 dave in NC  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 2:32:24pm

re: #28 missouri boy

well, there are about 4M NRA members, according to what i read in my latest american rifleman.

yes, i'm a member.

36 Opinionated  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 2:32:41pm

Obama is honest.

When he calls for change, he really means change. And with his likely Democrat controlled Congress, change will become reality.

When he is done with the change, makeover actually, you may not recognize the bruised and battered America.

37 Dalibama  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 2:33:25pm

re: #24 MandyManners

That is the BHO that I know.

BHO said that's not the Obama I knew.

38 Athos  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 2:33:38pm

re: #32 mama winger

There is a reason why they have been friends / associates for so many years.

39 missouri boy  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 2:34:06pm

re: #35 dave in NC

well, there are about 4M NRA members, according to what i read in my latest american rifleman.

yes, i'm a member.


I keep waiting for the NRA to annouce that it is the "2nd party" That would be a political party I could stand up for.

40 mama winger  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 2:35:22pm

re: #38 Athos

There is a reason why they have been friends / associates for so many years.

It seems as if he has shown us and told us exactly who he is. It's just that people choose to look past it. Why? That's what intrigues me.

41 HelloDare  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 2:35:38pm

Commander-In-Chief, Barack Obama. Why do people bother to go to horror films with that's a possibility.

42 vbspurs  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 2:36:09pm

re: #36 Opinionated

When he is done with the change, makeover actually, you may not recognize the bruised and battered America.

I agree that he's unusually "honest" for a politician (read, he doesn't think what he is saying is wrong, and is genuinely puzzled to find others do).

But I disagree that America will stand around being a punching bag. Let's also not commit the moonbat mistake of thinking a President has unilateral power to reformat the USA. We have checks and balances in this country for a purpose.

God forbid this man is elected. But I believe in America's innate strengths more than he does.

43 MarkX  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 2:36:24pm

God save America if he is elected.

44 MandyManners  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 2:37:39pm
45 dave in NC  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 2:37:39pm

re: #39 missouri boy


not in our mission; the NRA was founded to encourage/support civilian marksmanship, through such initiatives as the cmp. lately though, we've had to spend a great deal of time protecting the classic interpretation of the second amendment.

46 luco-brazzi  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 2:38:02pm

This is exactly what Clinton did to the CIA, and the military.

Is anybody really surprised.

47 Ma Sands  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 2:38:03pm

re: #43 MarkX

Well, as God is allowing it, it's best we be sure we're on God's side..... :)

48 MandyManners  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 2:38:24pm

re: #37 Dalibama

Your avatar...it burns...it burns...!

49 mama winger  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 2:38:36pm

Obama married a woman who is bitter against America and its people. Obama was mentored by a man who blames America for the most vile of crimes against humanity. Obama is friends with a priest who despises white people. Obama worked for a man who wants to blow up America even more than he did in the past. Obama has denied his American family in favor of his Kenyan/Muslim family.

Obama has told us exactly who he is.

50 HelloDare  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 2:38:38pm

The republican party should start running that video as a commercial.

51 dave in NC  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 2:40:05pm

there's a lifetime left in the campaign; much will be forthcoming between now and november.

52 greenmiler  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 2:40:13pm
53 Hannibal Smith  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 2:40:14pm

I assume it's been done by now since the video has been around so long, but someone make sure they save that vid in case Youtube "disappears" it.

This is really damning stuff. Or at least it should be, in a sane polity.

54 godfrey  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 2:40:23pm

Obama sounds like a puppet.

55 paradox42  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 2:40:26pm

While it would be great if we lived in a world where weapons weren't needed, this is not the case. There are very bad people out there and the only way to keep them at bay is with the sword.

A big problem with liberals, a problem I confess I once had, is an inability to recognize something or someone as evil and label it as such. Its easier to believe that everybody is basically decent and that all disagreements can be settled by talking. It is easier to to stand on the sidelines and not take a stand.

There are those out there who want power and control not only over the actions but also the thoughts of other people. Talking with them is a waste of time and may get you killed. Obama is a fool if he thinks the world is going to play nice just because he does.

56 mama winger  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 2:40:36pm

re: #54 godfrey

Obama sounds like a puppet.

I agree.

57 ZK273  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 2:40:39pm

Right, because once the US disarms, the other countries in the world will surely... *snrk* follow suit... *snrk*

BAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA!

Sorry. I'm just not capable of saying that while keeping a straight face.

58 The Other Les  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 2:40:48pm

The other side doesn't want to know the difference between right and wrong because they are wrong.

59 MandyManners  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 2:40:49pm

re: #41 HelloDare

Commander-In-Chief, Barack Obama. Why do people bother to go to horror films with that's a possibility.

It's the reality-show craze?

60 Athos  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 2:40:51pm

re: #40 mama winger

It seems as if he has shown us and told us exactly who he is. It's just that people choose to look past it. Why? That's what intrigues me.

That's the $64 question. Some also share the belief that the US is fundamentally wrong and evil. Some seek power at any cost - they see the wealth and ego trip that power will bring.

However, I think that for many its a case of decades of a substandard education and a focus on 'me' as opposed to a focus what this country stands for and the beacon it provides to the really oppressed in the world.

There is a reason why so many risk their lives and turn their lives upside down to come to this country. Political talking heads aside, the people of the world are voting as to the values that they are interested in - and those are the values of capitalism, freedom, liberty, and individuality. To those who seek power, control, and dominance America stands against all that they seek. For 50 years they have attempted to eliminate this bastion which prevents their fascist goals. Unfortunately, they are getting closer....but the silent majority of this country is not down and out yet.

61 Ma Sands  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 2:41:01pm

re: #54 godfrey

Truer words have hardly ever been spoken.....

62 MandyManners  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 2:41:41pm

re: #50 HelloDare

The republican party should start running that video as a commercial.

YES! YES! YES! YES!

63 Ol Yaler  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 2:41:53pm

It will be easy for Obama to cut billions from the defense budget. He can do it the same way Jimmy did it. Every year at Cost of Living adjustment time, he can make it lower that inflation, so the troops get less and less real pay each year. They will leave the service in droves over time. Then purchase fewer spare parts and when planes, tanks and vehicles break down, they cannot be repaired to run. Also, no purchase of new weapons by saying the next generation will be better so we will wait for them. After four years of this, our country will be in peril. Put more money in education for the teacher unions. That will make us dead smart.

64 vapig  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 2:42:10pm

re: #32 mama winger

I'm tired of sitting in the stairwell.

Look at Obama's known associates. They all seem to have a hatred for America, and look to me as if they would welcome its demise. Who is to say that Obama doesn't feel the same way? Perhaps he is not naive at all. Perhaps he is intent on seeing America go down.

Thank you! I'm glad someone finally said that "out loud"! This is what I believe as well.

65 Opinionated  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 2:42:17pm

re: #42 vbspurs

I agree that he's unusually "honest" for a politician (read, he doesn't think what he is saying is wrong, and is genuinely puzzled to find others do).

But I disagree that America will stand around being a punching bag. Let's also not commit the moonbat mistake of thinking a President has unilateral power to reformat the USA. We have checks and balances in this country for a purpose.

God forbid this man is elected. But I believe in America's innate strengths more than he does.

One of the checks will be like minded. The other may have no say on the disastrous policies.

He will destroy the economy and the markets by raising taxes. Particularly the capital gains tax.

Anything but anything can happen to a nation if the economy is bad enough.

Just one possibility.

66 godfrey  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 2:42:18pm

He stumbles on "quadrennial." Those aren't his words. He's a vector.

67 snowcrash  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 2:42:31pm

Not surprising at all. Obama is no friend of science either as evidenced by his statements on delaying or cutting NASA programs. We'll see brain drain and a loss of the workforce that knows how to build spacecraft and train a future workforce of aerospace engineers. Goodbye to research and development, good paying tech jobs, and hello to more funds for preschool and educational bureaucracies.

68 MarkX  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 2:42:39pm

re: #47 Ma Sands

Well, as God is allowing it, it's best we be sure we're on God's side..... :)

I hope so.

69 funky chicken  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 2:42:39pm

Jeez, I've been posting links to this video here and at hotair and ace of spades for months, and some people noticed it, but most just yawned and said "But McCain sucks" or whatever in response. Maybe now folks will start to pay attention and knock off the frivolity.

70 missouri boy  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 2:42:46pm

re: #45 dave in NC

dave....I too am a Life Member.......so, I can dream can't I.

71 The Other Les  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 2:43:00pm

re: #60 Athos

In short some folks hate us because we're the good guys.

72 Daisy  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 2:43:22pm

What makes Moonbats admire wimps so very much?

73 vbspurs  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 2:43:25pm

re: #54 godfrey

Obama sounds like a puppet.

He LOOKS like Max Headroom in that piece.

Please Lord, let that have been a holographic montage from a clever Youtuber...

74 VegasRick  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 2:43:28pm

re: #54 godfrey

Obama sounds like a puppet.

And looks like a muppet.

75 mama winger  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 2:43:28pm

okay - back downstairs - really black here - Paul is in the thick of it I'm afraid.

76 infidel Alan  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 2:43:41pm

Memo to Barack: the Norwegian Socialists disarmed Norway in the 1930s. Why don't you ask the Norwegians about disarmament? Some of them still remember how well it worked.

77 godfrey  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 2:44:07pm

re: #71 The Other Les

Ever since the USSR went down, every orc on earth has been gunning for us.

78 MandyManners  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 2:44:12pm

re: #60 Athos

Some seek power at any cost - they see the wealth and ego trip that power will bring.

In Soros' own words, “If truth be known, I carried some rather potent messianic fantasies with me from childhood, which I felt I had to control, otherwise they might get me in trouble,” Soros once wrote. When asked to elaborate on that passage by The Independent, Soros said, “It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of God, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.”

79 VegasRick  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 2:45:12pm

re: #75 mama winger

okay - back downstairs - really black here - Paul is in the thick of it I'm afraid.

Stay safe!

80 pegcity  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 2:45:19pm

re: #6 The Other Les

i've said that for the last 8 months, Iran gets nukes, war is inevitable

81 MandyManners  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 2:45:21pm

re: #72 Daisy

What makes Moonbats admire wimps so very much?

Peas in a pod.

82 dave in NC  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 2:45:27pm

re: #70 missouri boy


lifer also.

83 missouri boy  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 2:45:29pm

Reagan said "America was never attacked, because we were too strong"

84 Kilroy  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 2:46:09pm

It looks like its time to back to "Duck and Cover" as a plan for national defense.

85 nyc redneck  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 2:46:16pm

re: #78 MandyManners

In Soros' own words, “If truth be known, I carried some rather potent messianic fantasies with me from childhood, which I felt I had to control, otherwise they might get me in trouble,” Soros once wrote. When asked to elaborate on that passage by The Independent, Soros said, “It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of God, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.”

obama is the puppet messiah. soros will pull his strings.

86 wolfie  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 2:46:34pm

re: #76 infidel Alan

Memo to Barack: the Norwegian Socialists disarmed Norway in the 1930s. Why don't you ask the Norwegians about disarmament? Some of them still remember how well it worked.

Ooooooh. Nice historical tidbit there! Good one, Alan!

87 Dianna  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 2:46:54pm

re: #15 VegasRick

I'm thinking of a .45 carbine, assuming everything else goes smoothly.

88 The Other Les  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 2:47:29pm

With power (in our case, superpower status) comes responsibility.

Because we are the dominant power on the planet it is our responsibility to protect or restore the peace, and promote Life and Liberty as the central values of Human Societies.

Obama is just a Stone Age God-King wannabe who's going to plunder the productive to pay off his parasite supporters. The Big B.O. is simply not fit for public office.

89 dave in NC  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 2:47:41pm

re: #87 Dianna


with extended magazines.

90 The Other Les  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 2:47:50pm

re: #77 godfrey

Ever since the USSR went down, every orc on earth has been gunning for us.

I have to agree.

91 vapig  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 2:48:15pm

re: #47 Ma Sands

Well, as God is allowing it, it's best we be sure we're on God's side..... :)

I agree. I even make such statements elsewhere - I get told that it's freaks like me that are the problem. Then they get nasty!

92 VegasRick  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 2:48:21pm

re: #87 Dianna

I'm thinking of a .45 carbine, assuming everything else goes smoothly.

I've got a .30 cal M-1 "enforcer", dual combat clips and lots of ammo.

93 LEGION  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 2:48:38pm

He is evil and must be stopped. Spread this information- some swing vote folks may listen and tip the balance. It's our only hope!

94 vbspurs  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 2:48:50pm

re: #72 Daisy

What makes Moonbats admire wimps so very much?

Because they reflect the Left's three most important cannons:

1- Peace
2- Tolerance
3- Equality

For them, any aggressiveness is war, any intolerance is intolerable, and equality (which is more Marxist than the American emphasis on "freedom") is forced understanding.

95 Daisy  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 2:48:58pm

re: #32 mama winger

I'm tired of sitting in the stairwell.

Look at Obama's known associates. They all seem to have a hatred for America, and look to me as if they would welcome its demise. Who is to say that Obama doesn't feel the same way? Perhaps he is not naive at all. Perhaps he is intent on seeing America go down.

His mother was a Marxist named after a boy in order to quell his father's disappointment over having a wife who did not produce a mini-me for the jerk. His father was a loser too. Both parent's dumped him (as did his step-father). He's married to a wanna-be line-backer who had to settle for being a grievance-merchant. His friends are lousy. Obama is one very pissed off guy. Excuse my language - but it's true - the man's a lethal weapon which the rest of the Moonbats will only be too happy to deploy on our country.

96 The Other Les  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 2:49:11pm

re: #80 pegcity

i've said that for the last 8 months, Iran gets nukes, war is inevitable

Ayn Rand was saying something like that before I was born.

97 shibumi  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 2:49:46pm

re: #40 mama winger

It seems as if he has shown us and told us exactly who he is. It's just that people choose to look past it. Why? That's what intrigues me.

I'll bite.

No one wants to see that their Idol has clay feet.

No woman wants to see that the man she desperately loves is an abusive drunk with a cocaine problem.

No man wants to see that the woman he loves is an amoral gold digger who is just using him.

I think it's kind of human nature. Once we get fixated on someone as "the one" we overlook any and all faults. Much to the chagrin of our friends and family, who aren't looking at the object of our affection through our rose colored glasses.

98 vapig  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 2:50:01pm

re: #75 mama winger

okay - back downstairs - really black here - Paul is in the thick of it I'm afraid.

I pray that you ( and Paul) stay safe.

99 funky chicken  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 2:50:32pm

But just today on the radio, Glenn Beck's Saturday show, he said he won't vote for McCain. And said that Obama wouldn't be worse. How nice for him and for Ann Coulter that they don't have loved ones serving in Iraq or Afghanistan right now.

I think perhaps if any lizards are fans of these radio talkers, some nice letters might get them to think before they open their big mouths.

100 MarkX  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 2:51:29pm

re: #83 missouri boy

Reagan said "America was never attacked, because we were too strong"

Obamessiah said "Thank you sir, may I have another."

101 dave in NC  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 2:51:44pm

re: #99 funky chicken

identity politics, conservative style.

102 Daisy  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 2:52:49pm

re: #94 vbspurs

Because they reflect the Left's three most important cannons:

1- Peace
2- Tolerance
3- Equality

For them, any aggressiveness is war, any intolerance is intolerable, and equality (which is more Marxist than the American emphasis on "freedom") is forced understanding.

Well said and completely correct too.

103 shibumi  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 2:52:54pm

re: #78 MandyManners

In Soros' own words, “If truth be known, I carried some rather potent messianic fantasies with me from childhood, which I felt I had to control, otherwise they might get me in trouble,” Soros once wrote. When asked to elaborate on that passage by The Independent, Soros said, “It is a sort of disease when you consider yourself some kind of God, the creator of everything, but I feel comfortable about it now since I began to live it out.”

Oh-kay....

So on one hand we have Urkel the Narcissist, being funded and controlled by Soros the Narcissist. If they are different types of narcissists (they usually come in the physical or intellectual varieties,) they will get on fabulously, while they make life absolutely intolerable for everyone around them. If they are the same flavor, they will implode.

Unfortunately, my guess is that Soros thinks he's brilliant, and Urkel thinks he's handsome, so we might be totally screwed here people.

104 greenmiler  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 2:52:55pm

re: #98 vapig

I pray that you ( and Paul) stay safe.

re: #98 vapig

whats up with mama?

105 funky chicken  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 2:53:13pm

re: #49 mama winger

Obama married a woman who is bitter against America and its people. Obama was mentored by a man who blames America for the most vile of crimes against humanity. Obama is friends with a priest who despises white people. Obama worked for a man who wants to blow up America even more than he did in the past. Obama has denied his American family in favor of his Kenyan/Muslim family.

Obama has told us exactly who he is.

Mama Winger, you are on fire today. Keep it up!

106 MarkX  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 2:53:35pm

re: #95 Daisy

Yeah, what's not mentioned much is how screwed up his family really was.
He must have a lot of psychological baggage.

107 Ma Sands  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 2:53:36pm

re: #91 vapig

I think because you have touched a nerve, that's why..... :)

108 natemannq  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 2:53:39pm

Was his promise not to "weaponize space" meant to convey he will not eat beans?

109 Daisy  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 2:54:48pm

re: #104 greenmiler

re: #98 vapig

whats up with mama?

I'm wondering the same. Good thoughts to you, mama.

110 vapig  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 2:55:43pm

re: #104 greenmiler

re: #98 vapig

whats up with mama?

Tornado warning/ watch....

Those things are monsters! I hope they are ok - everybody out there.

111 The Other Les  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 2:56:44pm

Military supremacy means never having to say that you submit.

112 greenmiler  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 2:57:08pm

where is she?

113 Daisy  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 2:57:26pm

re: #106 MarkX

Yeah, what's not mentioned much is how screwed up his family really was.
He must have a lot of psychological baggage.

Because to mention how horrifically screwed up his family is would be - ta dadada .. racist.

114 Ma Sands  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 2:57:35pm

re: #112 greenmiler

Stairwell of a condo --no basement.....

115 greenmiler  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 2:58:05pm

sh#t

116 greenmiler  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 2:58:27pm

what state?

117 Ma Sands  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 2:58:53pm

re: #116 greenmiler

Wisconsin......northeast border.....

118 Dianna  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 2:59:51pm

re: #30 godfrey

I agree, but people cheer him when he says this nonsense and talk about how wonderful and different it is.

119 gymnast  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 3:01:27pm

Why vote for Obama? Because it's too late to vote for Lenin!

120 Killian Bundy  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 3:02:36pm

Speaking of weather, I just ordered one of these today.

/anyone else ever have one?

121 yochanan  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 3:02:49pm

[Link: blogs.suntimes.com...]

john mccain on military service you know he will support the military

122 Geepers  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 3:03:23pm

The contrast couldn't be greater:

John McCain, Prisoner of War: A First-Person Account

By John S. McCain III, Lieut. Commander, U.S. Navy

This story originally appeared in the May 14, 1973, issue of U.S.News & World Report. It was posted online on January 28, 2008.

Of the many personal accounts coming to light about the almost unbelievably cruel treatment accorded American prisoners of war in Vietnam, none is more dramatic than that of Lieut. Commander John S. McCain III—Navy flier, son of the admiral who commanded the war in the Pacific, and a prisoner who came in "for special attention" during 5½ years of captivity in North Vietnam.

Here, in his own words, based on almost total recall, is Commander McCain's narrative of 5½ years in the hands of the North Vietnamese.

The date was Oct. 26, 1967. I was on my 23rd mission, flying right over the heart of Hanoi in a dive at about 4,500 feet, when a Russian missile the size of a telephone pole came up—the sky was full of them—and blew the right wing off my Skyhawk dive bomber. It went into an inverted, almost straight-down spin.

I pulled the ejection handle, and was knocked unconscious by the force of the ejection—the air speed was about 500 knots. I didn't realize it at the moment, but I had broken my right leg around the knee, my right arm in three places, and my left arm. I regained consciousness just before I landed by parachute in a lake right in the corner of Hanoi, one they called the Western Lake. My helmet and my oxygen mask had been blown off.

I hit the water and sank to the bottom. I think the lake is about 15 feet deep, maybe 20. I kicked off the bottom. I did not feel any pain at the time, and was able to rise to the surface. I took a breath of air and started sinking again. Of course, I was wearing 50 pounds, at least, of equipment and gear. I went down and managed to kick up to the surface once more. I couldn't understand why I couldn't use my right leg or my arm. I was in a dazed condition. I went up to the top again and sank back down. This time I couldn't get back to the surface. I was wearing an inflatable life-preserver-type thing that looked like water wings. I reached down with my mouth and got the toggle between my teeth and inflated the preserver and finally floated to the top.

Some North Vietnamese swam out and pulled me to the side of the lake and immediately started stripping me, which is their standard procedure. Of course, this being in the center of town, a huge crowd of people gathered, and they were all hollering and screaming and cursing and spitting and kicking at me.

When they had most of my clothes off, I felt a twinge in my right knee. I sat up and looked at it, and my right foot was resting next to my left knee, just in a 90-degree position. I said, "My God--my leg!" That seemed to enrage them —I don't know why. One of them slammed a rifle butt down on my shoulder, and smashed it pretty badly. Another stuck a bayonet in my foot. The mob was really getting up-tight.

A photograph of Lt. Cmdr. John S. McCain III taken during an interview with U.S.News & World Report after his release from captivity in Vietnam.

As they say: Read the whole thing.

Hat Tip: Shorpy

123 Dr. Shalit  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 3:04:46pm

re: #63 Ol Yaler

It will be easy for Obama to cut billions from the defense budget. He can do it the same way Jimmy did it. Every year at Cost of Living adjustment time, he can make it lower that inflation, so the troops get less and less real pay each year. They will leave the service in droves over time. Then purchase fewer spare parts and when planes, tanks and vehicles break down, they cannot be repaired to run. Also, no purchase of new weapons by saying the next generation will be better so we will wait for them. After four years of this, our country will be in peril. Put more money in education for the teacher unions. That will make us dead smart.

Yaller -

In April, 1980 - after the Iran Raid failed - Even Pres. Carter saw that the decline HAD to be stopped. The Reagan Renaissance of the Military actually started under Carter - as the New Deal did - under Hoover. In both cases - Too Little/Too Late.

-S-

124 Dianna  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 3:05:58pm

re: #67 snowcrash

No one ever says what all those marvelous, educated people are supposed to do, either.

125 Athos  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 3:06:21pm

re: #123 Dr. Shalit

So, what specifically did Carter do between April 1980 and November 1980 or January 1981 to reverse the decline?

126 vbspurs  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 3:06:51pm

re: #52 greenmiler

Compare that to this and see how far we have come

Thanks so much for the video. I just blogged about the compare/contrast of Obama's video to Reagan's words, hat tipping Weaselzippers/LGF.

Though American politics is not as stark in opposition as in other countries, Obama is the closest major politician I have seen in this country to the ideological opposite of everything Reagan stood for. He's a nightmare.

127 Ojoe  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 3:07:44pm

Upon the very instant that the most moral people no longer have the biggest weapons, the evil prey upon the innocent.

and that is exactly where Obama will take the world if he is elected.

It's very scary; much is at stake.

128 Dianna  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 3:08:35pm

re: #89 dave in NC

I'm in California, I don't think I can buy extended magazines.

Pity, that.

129 ContraJihadi  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 3:09:16pm

Transcript please, I couldn't fetch the voice of Big Brother Barry on his Two Minute Hate.

(I should probalby reboot, but the LGF spy is running like a thoroughbred.)

130 dave in NC  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 3:09:55pm

re: #128 Dianna

dianna;

think you're right; those nasty 30-rd clips look too scary.

131 vbspurs  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 3:10:12pm

re: #120 Killian Bundy

/anyone else ever have one?

No, but I have a Kindle. Not quite the same channel choices, though.

132 vapig  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 3:10:16pm

re: #116 greenmiler

what state?

I don't know - I just know that she and Paul said they were under alert.

133 Ojoe  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 3:11:27pm
Upon the very instant that the most moral people no longer have the biggest weapons, the evil begin to prey upon the innocent.


(better wording)

and there is exactly where Obama will take the world if he is elected.

It's very scary; much is at stake.

134 greenmiler  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 3:11:36pm

re: #126 vbspurs

He was the first President I ever voted for, from Clark Air Base P.I., I miss him. That speech was toward the USSRl; it fits even now more
than ever

135 Buster Friendly  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 3:12:39pm

There are many college freshmen who are better briefed than this huckster on national security issues. St. Barry Hussein is a messianic, McGovernite empty suit who needs to be exposed early and often.

136 Dr. Shalit  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 3:13:05pm

re: #125 Athos

Athos -

Mostly additional funding for "OMA" - i.e. Operations and Maintenance Accounts, as in, start buying the parts and fixing the stuff. Reagan thought in bigger terms and started buying MORE STUFF.

-S-

137 Dianna  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 3:13:21pm

re: #130 dave in NC

It's all because of 101 California.

138 dave in NC  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 3:14:05pm

that's the key; this is mcgovern all over again.

and we all remember how well that worked out.

139 profitsbeard  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 3:14:40pm

Barry will do to defense what Michelle did to him.

140 dave in NC  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 3:15:06pm

re: #137 Dianna

yeah, and boxer, feinstein, and brown don't help.

141 Dianna  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 3:17:07pm

re: #140 dave in NC

Don't remind me. I had to sit and watch it happen.

I must say, though, that it was a perfectly awful day.

142 Paul Green  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 3:20:42pm

He not only wants to disarm us collectively, but individually:

[Link: www.suntimes.com...]

Pertinent quotes:

S-T: "As a state legislator, you voted against a bill which would let people with orders of protection [against others] carry guns and another that would have barred municipalities from punishing people who kept guns in their homes. Why?"

B.O.: "I felt that [the first one] was a precedent for conceal-and-carry laws. There has not been any evidence that allowing people to carry a concealed weapon is going to make anybody safer. [The second one] is relevant to the D.C. handgun issue. I wanted to preserve the right of local communities to enforce local ordinances and this would have overturned municipalities being able to enforce their own ordinances."

When this creature makes noises about respecting the Second Amendment, keep in mind that he does not think it necessarily allows you either to bear arms or to keep them.

"We've got to tighten up our gun laws."

To the point of strangulation.

143 greenmiler  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 3:22:25pm

did moma winger ever come back up?

144 vbspurs  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 3:22:48pm

re: #138 dave in NC

that's the key; this is mcgovern all over again.

Moreso. Obama has:

- Adlai Stevenson's intellectual arrogance.
- Lyndon Johnson's blind ambition.
- McGovern's backstabbing belief in reform.
- Jimmy Carter's criminal ineptitude.
- Dukakis' weakness.
- Gore's glibness.

I couldn't find anything to slam him with via Kennedy, Humphries, Mondale, Clinton or Kerry.

E.g. - unlike Clinton or John Kerry, I don't think he's a phony and lacks "vision" (he's real all right, scarily so), but please correct where necessary.

145 Geepers  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 3:23:29pm

dave in NC (#138),

this is mcgovern all over again.

Far worse.

Lt. George McGovern served as a B-24 Liberator bomber pilot in the Fifteenth Air Force and flew 35 missions.

146 Athos  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 3:28:06pm

re: #136 Dr. Shalit

From an analysis of the 1980 FY Budget submitted by Carter.....

DEFENSE Carter's budget, in accordance with his pledge to NATO, in creases real defense spending by 3.1 percent. Procurement funds, increased by 7.8 percent in real terms, are to finance among other items, a Trident submarine, a conventionally powered aircraft carrier improvements in the Minuteman missile, and an air launched cruise missile. Funds for research, development, test and evaluation were increased 4.2 percent in real terms.

Despite the seemingly impressive gains, the Carter defense budget barely exceeds the current services estimate. Much of the increase in procurement and research has been financed through a lid on military personnel costs than 1 percent in 1980, 1981, and 1982 Outlays for personnel rise by less Although 1980 outlays increased by 9.9 percent, budget authority rose only 8.1 percent authority again in 1981 and 1982 authority might be a handicap in developing long term defense projects

Perhaps this changed by the time of passage, but I haven't been able to find any specifics. Without more specifics, it would be difficult to really say that Carter was on the upside of rebuilding the military.

I also could not see any specifics of Carter changing his position and policies regarding defense spending in this transcript of a debate with Reagan. It seems as if Carter still is convinced that -

But in doing this, we have made sure that we address this question peacefully, not injecting American military forces into combat, but letting the strength of our nation be felt in a beneficial way. This, I believe, has assured that our interests will be protected in the Persian Gulf region, as we have done in the Middle East and throughout the world.
147 Kulhwch  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 3:28:45pm

re: #32 mama winger

I'm tired of sitting in the stairwell.

Look at Obama's known associates. They all seem to have a hatred for America, and look to me as if they would welcome its demise. Who is to say that Obama doesn't feel the same way? Perhaps he is not naive at all. Perhaps he is intent on seeing America go down.

You're not in the stairwell alone, hon.  Can't you hear us breathing?  There's a whole slew of us who are almost afraid to sleep at night because of the terror that the future could hold.

}:)     [Where is my country for my children, for their children?]

148 paradox42  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 3:30:04pm

re: #127 Ojoe

Upon the very instant that the most moral people no longer have the biggest weapons, the evil prey upon the innocent.

and that is exactly where Obama will take the world if he is elected.

It's very scary; much is at stake.

Like many on the left, Obama doesn't think that evil exists and he always thinks in shades of grey. Therefore, he doesn't think that we are much better than the rest of the world. He thinks that others will follow in disarmament and the whole world will join hands singing "Smile on Your Brother".

Its amazing when you consider the company he keeps that he is blind to the existence of evil.

149 Macker  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 3:33:11pm

re: #148 paradox42

Like many on the left, Obama doesn't think that evil exists and he always thinks in shades of grey. Therefore, he doesn't think that we are much better than the rest of the world. He thinks that others will follow in disarmament and the whole world will join hands singing "Smile on Your Brother".

Its amazing when you consider the company he keeps that he is blind to the existence of evil.

Yes, he is blind too!

150 greenmiler  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 3:33:31pm

I wouldn't be surprised now if McCain choses a female running mate. Diehard dems will vote for Obama but the best way to take a chunk out of the Hillary vote would be to pick a female..who, I don't know

151 razorbacker  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 3:37:10pm

Well, well. The media darling did not win.

Maybe that's why they insist on actually running the race, instead of relying on experts to decide the winner.

Might as well go ahead an hold the election, too.

152 freedombilly  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 3:37:45pm

If the msm would just report this stuff this man would have NO CHANCE!

153 vbspurs  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 3:38:09pm

re: #150 greenmiler

I wouldn't be surprised now if McCain choses a female running mate. Diehard dems will vote for Obama but the best way to take a chunk out of the Hillary vote would be to pick a female..who, I don't know

Governor Sarah Palin of Alaska.

This strategic choice would be nullified if Obama chooses Hillary first, or if he surprises everyone later with Caroline Kennedy Schlossberg. Neither will happen. Advantage McCain.

154 elvula  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 3:42:15pm

At what point does his promise become an extra-constitutional contradiction? How can he be bound to "provide for the common defense", then take an oath to protect and defend that which binds him?

155 The Rebbitzen  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 3:43:32pm

Christine Todd Whitman?
I would love to see Elizabeth Dole

156 Colonel Panik  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 3:47:00pm

re: #150 greenmiler

I wouldn't be surprised now if McCain choses a female running mate. Diehard dems will vote for Obama but the best way to take a chunk out of the Hillary vote would be to pick a female..who, I don't know

Sarah "Mooseburgers" Palin!

I'll take Mooseburgers over Arugula & Waffles any day.

(Sorry Bullwinkle.)

157 ploome hineni[deleted]  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 3:47:43pm
158 Colonel Panik  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 3:48:13pm

re: #157 ploome hineni

..this frigging election is not good for my mental health

It's not helping my blood pressure, either.

159 ploome hineni[deleted]  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 3:48:16pm
160 Carolyn  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 3:48:47pm

And I will put lambs into the lion's cage.
Then I will have foxes guarding hen houses.
/

161 Colonel Panik  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 3:50:22pm

If this guy really means what he says in this vid and isn't just playing to a pacifist Iowa crowd we're in deep kimchee. I would send this video to everyone you know, especially active duty and retired military.

It needs to be archived in case the Obamahhedin try to scrub it from the net.

162 vbspurs  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 3:51:58pm

re: #155 The Rebbitzen

I would love to see Elizabeth Dole

Wow, why? Even Bob Dole needs Viagra for that.

163 thinkingmom  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 3:52:13pm

Barack Obama loathes America.
I'd love to have someone prove me wrong, but I've seen no evidence to the contrary.

164 brickthruplateglasswindow  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 3:56:19pm

An apt thread to announce....

Dunham's Sporting Goods has Mosin 91/30's on sale tomorrow and Monday (doorbuster specials) $69.95 no limit. They make useful gifts or decorations to hang over fireplace mantles. Most come with accessories like an oiler bottle, cleaning kit, sling, and a big-ass bayonet!

Stock up while you still can. :)

165 The Rebbitzen  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 3:58:21pm

#162 vbspurs
The opposite-he took Viagra to be with her.

166 Ojoe  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 4:01:03pm

re: #148 paradox42

It is very amazing Obama's attitude, given the history of colored people in this country, who were on the receiving end of evil, and whose freedom was won by force.

Here are the lyrics of a civil war song:

Take Your Gun And Go, John

Words and music by H.T. Merrill


Don't stop a moment to think, John,
Our country calls, then go.
Don't fear for me nor the children, John,
I'll care for them, you know!
Leave the corn up on the stalk, John,
The fruit upon the tree,
And all our little stores, John,
Yes, leave them all to me.

Chorus

Then take your gun and go,
Yes, take your gun and go.
For Ruth can drive the oxen, John,
And I can use the hoe.

I've heard my grandsire tell, John,
He fought at Bunker Hill
He counted all his life and wealth
His country's off'ring still.
Would I shame the brave old blood, John,
That flow'd on Monmouth plain?
No! Take your gun and go, John,
Tho' I ne'er see you again.

Chorus

The army's short of blankets, John,
Then take this heavy pair,
I spun and wove them when a girl,
And work'd them with great care.
A rose in every corner, John,
And here's my name, you see!
On the cold ground they'll warmer feel,
Because they're made by me.

Chorus

And, John, if God has willed it so,
We ne'er shall meet again,
I'll do the best for the children, John,
In sorrow, want or pain.
On winter nights I'll teach them John,
All that I learned at school,
To love our country, keep her laws,
Obey the Savior's rule.

Chorus

And now good-bye to you, John,
I cannot say Farewell!
We'll hope and pray for the best,John,
His goodness none can tell.
May His arm be round about you, John,
To guard you night and day.
Be our beloved country's shield,
Till war shall pass away.

Chorus

And here is the music.

God bless our country.

167 Ojoe  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 4:03:06pm

And we worry wether the Michelle Whitey tape exists? This trumps that.

168 hermeneutics  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 4:05:49pm

re: #12 nyc redneck

Okay, Lizards, I have a gun question for you.

I am signing up to take a class in gun safety and usage. Specifically, I believe, the class is to teach how to use a handgun. A second class teaches whatever I need to know for concealed carry. (I live in AZ.)

The class doesn't require, but does recommend, that students bring a handgun. They have a couple of loaners, but specifically tell us to bring our own gun, if possible.

As a woman, small-built, I want a gun to protect myself and my kids, particularly when I travel. (I also want to buy my boys hunting guns, but that's another story.)

So, what should I buy? Please tell me exactly what I need to know because the options are dizzying.

169 Geepers  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 4:06:14pm

Watch Barry's golden tongue swirl.

What must people think who are watching him completely bumble along like this?

170 hermeneutics  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 4:06:44pm

re: #168 hermeneutics

Nic is hot if you want to write to me offline.

171 hermeneutics  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 4:07:00pm

re: #170 hermeneutics

Nic is hot if you want to write to me offline.

About guns, that is. :)

172 Ojoe  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 4:07:37pm

re: #168 hermeneutics

Don't buy a .45 they kick like a mule.

Other lizards can tell you more

173 Geepers  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 4:07:48pm

hermeneutics (#168),

Ploome is our resident ladies gun expert.

174 hermeneutics  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 4:08:06pm

re: #172 Ojoe

I want something small but mighty.

175 hermeneutics  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 4:08:35pm

re: #173 Geepers

Thanks. I didn't even know Ploome was female. I'll wait to see her nic.

176 Ojoe  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 4:09:28pm

re: #174 hermeneutics

Well my expertise has run out.
But here is a photo you may enjoy.

177 vbspurs  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 4:11:29pm

re: #165 The Rebbitzen

#162 vbspurs
The opposite-he took Viagra to be with her.

Heh, my point. ;)

Seriously, though, Libby Dole is a lovely lady, but she's not as Conservative as one might think. Another thing is that she hardly brings youth to the ticket. Ex-Governor Whitman is an iffy Republican, too, though younger.

Governor Palin has 5 children, the eldest of whom is serving in the Army, and the youngest of whom she chose not to abort, though he was a Down Syndrome baby.

To me, these points resonate more with Americans than gender.

178 Toosmoky  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 4:11:35pm

In Oz it only took a small number of voters to tip the balance to the left and we've started to slide backward already. Don't let it happen in the U.S. Make every vote count to get McCain over the line.

Or we're all up shit creek.

179 The Rebbitzen  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 4:15:33pm

#177 vbspurs
I will have to check her out, don't know anything about her. Thanks for the heads up.

180 Dr. Shalit  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 4:21:20pm

re: #168 hermeneutics

"h" -

Nothing beats a "LadySmith" for her "Ladyship."

-S-

181 Colonel Panik  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 4:22:51pm

re: #168 hermeneutics

Okay, Lizards, I have a gun question for you.

I am signing up to take a class in gun safety and usage. Specifically, I believe, the class is to teach how to use a handgun. A second class teaches whatever I need to know for concealed carry. (I live in AZ.)

The class doesn't require, but does recommend, that students bring a handgun. They have a couple of loaners, but specifically tell us to bring our own gun, if possible.

As a woman, small-built, I want a gun to protect myself and my kids, particularly when I travel. (I also want to buy my boys hunting guns, but that's another story.)

So, what should I buy? Please tell me exactly what I need to know because the options are dizzying.

I would buy either a 9mm semi-auto pistol or a .38/.357 magnum revolver. If you have never fired a weapon before the revolver will be easier to use. In addition you can use lower powered .38 special rounds for practice and .357 mag for defensive use in the same gun. Smith & Wesson, Colt, Ruger, Taurus. Revolver barrel lengths range from 2" snubbies for concealed carry to 6" for outdoor and handgun hunting use. A 6" barrel revolver is a very accurate handgun. 4" is a good compromise.

Advantage to the 9mm pistol is more rounds (10-15 or so in magazine versus 6-8 in revolver cylinder) fast reloads and less recoil. 9mm is cheap to practice with and the right loads (125-147gr JHP-jacketed hollow points) give acceptable stopping power. Lots of choices here Browning High Power (a classic), The CZ-75 which is Czech update of the High Power with some features from the Swiss SiG P210. The SiG P225...available now as surplus German Police P6's for under $300. Hell of a deal for a great pistol. SiG P226, Glock 17,19 Springfield XD, Smith & Wesson M&P etc.

Try a .45 auto as well if you can handle the recoil, better stopping power than the 9mm. Colt 1911 derived pistols are available form numerous mfrs. at vary price ranges and there are .45 versions of Glock, Springfield HD and Smith & Wesson M&P. SiG P220 is another good .45.

Where in AZ are you? There are several good indoor ranges in PHX area-I frequent Scottsdale Gun Club near the Scottsdale Air Park. Shooters World is on the west side near Glendale and Caswells (sp?) in Mesa. Best bet is to rent several guns at a range that offers rentals like the three mentioned and see what works best for you. You need to try out a variety and see what fits best in your hand, points most instinctively and you can shoot accurately. Everyone's hands and eyes are a bit different.

182 Fat Jolly Penguin  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 4:23:24pm

I swear I saw this over six months ago. Don't remember where, but it's astoundingly familiar.

For the record, it still scares me.

183 anotherindyfilmguy  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 4:26:08pm

re: #168 hermeneutics

Find a place that rents guns and has a range with assistants/instructors.
Work your way up to the highest caliber you can safely and accurately handle without much discomfort from use.
Then get something in that caliber you are comfortable carrying.

184 anotherindyfilmguy  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 4:28:46pm

re: #180 Dr. Shalit

I carry a ladysmith .357 everyday and would recommend it only if able to handle the kick for second shot (if needed). If a .357 has to much kick consider .38 special or .380 as the next step down in accuracy and handling.

185 Dr. Shalit  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 4:32:45pm

re: #184 anotherindyfilmguy

Indy -

You notice I left caliber out of the discussion. My recollection is that it can be chambered for .32 - .357 magnum.

-S-

186 brickthruplateglasswindow  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 4:34:55pm

re: #168 hermeneutics

Okay, Lizards, I have a gun question for you.

I am signing up to take a class in gun safety and usage. Specifically, I believe, the class is to teach how to use a handgun. A second class teaches whatever I need to know for concealed carry. (I live in AZ.)

The class doesn't require, but does recommend, that students bring a handgun. They have a couple of loaners, but specifically tell us to bring our own gun, if possible.

As a woman, small-built, I want a gun to protect myself and my kids, particularly when I travel. (I also want to buy my boys hunting guns, but that's another story.)

So, what should I buy? Please tell me exactly what I need to know because the options are dizzying.

Congratulations on taking ownership of your own personal safety! The selections are dizzying aren't they? In all fairness, recommending a firearm, can be like recommending shoes. What fits perfectly for one will not for another. Handguns are a series of compromises. Reader's Digest version...Hits matter. Big calibers generally have more stopping power than smaller ones, but bigger calibers generally have larger recoil. Heavier handguns recoil less than lighter ones of equivalent caliber. Get something you can comfortably handle, and shoot proficiently. Then practice, practice, practice. Hopefully, whatever you settle on, you'll find as we did that "gun people" have been some of the warmest and most generous people we've ever met. :)

187 profitsbeard  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 4:36:29pm

"...I will slow our development of future combat systems..."

Gosh, I feel so much safer.

Obrilliant.

Living in Candyland.

Where muchkins ride unicorns and cotton candy grows on elves.

188 anotherindyfilmguy  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 4:37:08pm

re: #185 Dr. Shalit

When I got mine it was mainly a .357... it's been expanded as a name to other calibers and semi auto lines as well it looks like.

189 Dr. Shalit  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 4:39:02pm

re: #188 anotherindyfilmguy

Indy -

Thanks for the heads up. Actually - if you don't have to fire it - caliber is academic.

-S-

190 eff plus  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 4:40:25pm

Telepromters are fun!

191 Colonel Panik  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 4:43:12pm

Googled "messiah complex obama".

30,500 hits.

192 really grumpy big dog johnson  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 4:43:54pm

re: #120 Killian Bundy

Speaking of weather, I just ordered one of these today.

/anyone else ever have one?

I've used on of those, and they work pretty well. They aren't close to perfect, but you won't find much that's better on the market. It does have SAME, but you can't fine tune which alerts you hear, which means if you pick your county code, you get every single kind of watch/warning or public service message that gets broadcast across your area. This can get pretty annoying at times.

The menus are pretty obtuse and not user friendly, but manageable. While you have battery backup, you may find that if there's been a power outage, you may lose your customized settings. But like I said, there aren't a lot of better options out there, especially at a better price.

One of the most annoying features in the keypress beeps, which cannot be turned off and are loud and irritating.

I've used one in the office, and often found that the custodial staff that cleaned in the evening would mess with the unit, presumably because some sort of alert went off while they were there. Since you have to read the instructions to know how to do some of the simplest things, they'd just turn the unit off or even unplug it from the wall.

193 anotherindyfilmguy  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 4:45:18pm

re: #189 Dr. Shalit

Summary for the original question:
Find out what caliber you can handle. Carry that caliber. Carrying less than you can means that if you have to use it your percentages of a one shot stop go down.

As for caliber being academic if never used. That's a hypothetical that could leave someone with less than they need if they find themselves in danger.

194 hermeneutics  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 4:48:22pm

re: #181 Colonel Panik

Colonel -- THANKS for all the info. I live in Carefree so the Scottsdale Gun Club sounds perfect (never heard of it until now). I was planning on taking a class at the shooting range on 17 and Carefree Hwy but maybe I'll rent a few different kinds of guns at the SGC first.

Thanks again.

195 hermeneutics  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 4:52:28pm

re: #186 brickthruplateglasswindow

Thank you for your information, Brick. I've copied what you wrote and will try to figure this all out in a couple weeks. Thanks again.

196 Spiny Norman  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 4:52:38pm
"I will set a goal for a world without nuclear weapons. To seek that goal, I will not develop nuclear weapons; I will seek a global ban on the production of fissile material; and I will negotiate with Russia ...blah, blah, blah.”

I guess that means he'll shut down the world's nuclear power plants, too. Somehow, I don't think his friends in Fwonce will be too keen about that.

I suppose he meant "weapons grade", but maybe he doesn't know the difference...

197 big L  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 5:00:41pm

6 the other Les-- Yep.

198 Maximu§  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 5:01:32pm

re: #187 profitsbeard

"...I will slow our development of future combat systems..."

Gosh, I feel so much safer.

Obrilliant.

Living in Candyland.

Where muchkins ride unicorns and cotton candy grows on elves.

Lets not forget the chocolate rivers and marshmallow tree's....My God, its easy to see why these people have earned the label: America's dumbest generation.

199 big L  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 5:03:56pm

IT is like 'Mein Kampf". Hitler tol' us what he wanted to do. And here is Oby Wan huseini, telling us what he plans to do.
/better print this out and distribute it around...

200 SpartanWoman  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 5:06:10pm

re: #54 godfrey

Obama sounds like a puppet.

Whose?

201 big L  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 5:07:02pm

'...and who can keep the Palestinians from hatin' all the Jews, the Obama-man can....'
/From the video on you tube-MJ /Schnitt-Morning Show...
sung to the tune of the Candy man.

202 The Rebbitzen  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 5:09:41pm

I hear that BHO is considering JANET! Napolitano for VP. He will then have a white male on the ticket.
/

203 SpartanWoman  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 5:10:39pm

re: #122 Geepers

He was much better looking and more manly than osama obama ever was.

204 witness  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 5:15:57pm

Komrad BHO's next book: "Channeling Chamberlain"

205 Maine's Michael  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 5:19:18pm
I will slow our development of future combat systems

'Future combat systems', at least those related to pinpoint attack, have in fact been wasterful, if one consiers the fact that the Iraq War should could have been fought by sattelite from a storefront in a stripmall in the Florida panhandle.

Indeed, after trillions spent on these fancy defense systems, the American public fully expected the Iraq war to be fought that way, with essentially zero casualties.

That was the implicit promise, in return for the decades of tax monies spent on these systems.

Instead, President Dances-With-Saudis fought the war with both eyes on the arab street, with Saudi sensitivities in mind, instead of the American street. Our boys got picked off two and ten at a time as they pussyfooted around mosques, pissing off the republican base no end, and driving the liberals, who care not one bit for arab lives, to distraction.

That is why Bush got a 'thumping' in the 2006 midterms, and why McCain now has an uphill battle.

So, in the narrow sense that past 'future weapons systems' were not exploited fully, money WAS wasted.

We should also keep in mind that 'pinpoint accuracy' in our weapons tends to prolong the conflict, to the extent that it reduces the collateral damage that has always been a key motivator on the part of warring parties to end the hostilites.

Witness Israel's pathetic results, with their enemies mocking them even as they 'pinpoint' the combatants to hell.

206 vbspurs  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 5:20:56pm

re: #204 witness

Komrad BHO's next book: "Channeling Chamberlain"

Mein Bumf.

207 witness  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 5:23:44pm

re: #206 vbspurs

Mein Waffle

208 calvin coolidge  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 5:23:54pm

So he has all that stuff under the bus and now he has to fit the military under there too?

209 Mike McDaniel  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 5:32:56pm

This is why this election has me worried.

Few people realize just how badly run down the armed forces are. We've been on a 15-year procurement holiday. With predictable results...half of the USAF's F-15 force is grounded and headed for the boneyard, a third of the Navy's P-3s are grounded in desperate need of replacement, and Marine squadrons are trading clapped-out 15-year-old F-18Cs for even older F-18As that still have some structural life left in them. The Navy has a stated requirement for 313 ships (the actual requirement is arguably closer to 400), but has about 270...with that number shrinking by the month. And the Army is just fried.

We are heading for a replay of the 1970s...Vietnam used up surplus weapons from World War 2 and Korea, then used up the money that was to replace the old hardware. Everybody figured that after the war concluded, we would be able to rebuild...but the money got pumped into welfares instead. With devastating consequences.

This time, the price tag is likely to be higher.

210 Mike McDaniel  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 5:40:21pm

And by the way, no fissile material means no clean nuclear power.

Doubtless the Democrat snob ringleaders will continue to enjoy their lives of luxury. But for us tax peasants, all we and our kids can look forward to is a declining standard of living.

211 RTLM  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 5:47:49pm

Obama:
"I am currently the only candidate in this RACE who believes everything ever uttered and written by Karl Marx."

(change)

212 eCurmudgeon  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 5:51:29pm

re: #196 Spiny Norman

I guess that means he'll shut down the world's nuclear power plants, too. Somehow, I don't think his friends in Fwonce will be too keen about that.

I suppose he meant "weapons grade", but maybe he doesn't know the difference...

I fully suspect he in fact does, and made the remark in order to gain support among the Greens...

213 ASU86PE  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 5:55:12pm

re: #139 profitsbeard

Don't call HIM Barry! I know Barry and He's no Barry!

214 kevinmumaw  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 5:58:23pm
“Second, I will cut tens of billions of dollars in wasteful spending. I will cut investments in unproven missile defense systems.

Yeah, just keep repeating the lie. I think it is so precious how he keeps saying he is different.

[Link: www.breitbart.com...]

215 Robert O.  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 6:07:47pm

See this video:

216 angst  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 6:13:04pm

re: #153 vbspurs

Governor Sarah Palin of Alaska.

This strategic choice would be nullified if Obama chooses Hillary first, or if he surprises everyone later with Caroline Kennedy Schlossberg. Neither will happen. Advantage McCain.

I'm a big Palin fan. She could not only steal some of Hillary's supporters, but perhaps woo some conservatives who are disgruntled with McCain liberal tendencies. Then she'd be in perfect position to run for the top slot in 2012.

re: #168 hermeneutics

I have a Springfield XD9mm that has very little kick. I can shoot an entire magazine of 16 rounds and my hand doesn't hurt. It's the biggest I could comfortably get.

217 AZfederalist  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 6:24:23pm

re: #202 The Rebbitzen

a) LOL regarding WM commment
b) Would she need to step down during the campaign? If so, I would whole-heartedly endorse this choice. We need some way to get her out of office. OTOH, if she gets to keep her office while running, that's still a good choice, she is neither charismatic nor all that intelligent. I'm not really sure how she managed to win AZ office

218 reno911  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 6:29:59pm

re: #205 Maine's Michael

'Future combat systems', at least those related to pinpoint attack, have in fact been wasterful, if one consiers the fact that the Iraq War should could have been fought by sattelite from a storefront in a stripmall in the Florida panhandle.

What weapon system is that? We have armed satellites?

We should also keep in mind that 'pinpoint accuracy' in our weapons tends to prolong the conflict, to the extent that it reduces the collateral damage that has always been a key motivator on the part of warring parties to end the hostilites.

Are you advocating going back to dumb bombs? Your post is just several uninformed rants. Where do you get your info? Kos?

219 EE  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 6:32:45pm

That a President Obama would "cut investments in unproven missile defense systems" means that he is opposed to America defending itself against an Iranian nuclear missile attack.

A missile defense system can be regarded as unproven until the day that there is a real missile attack from a hostile entity. Until then, a President Obama could regard it as "unproven". So he would not invest in it, and he would leave America vulnerable to a nuke-armed missile attack launched by the mad mullahs of Iran.

The long-time mentor of Barack Hussein Obama, Jeremiah Wright, is noted for his curse upon America: "No, no, no! Not God BLESS America! God DAMN AMERICA!"

Unintentionally, a President Barack Hussein Obama, if he stuck to his campaign promises with regard to disarming America and especially with regard to avoiding a missile defense, could be the instrument of that curse pronounced by his 20-year mentor, God forbid.

220 Challenger  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 6:53:19pm

What a fruitcake. Of course none of the MSM will expose anything of what he's really about. This guy is the worst candidate I've seen in my lifetime.

"Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain..."

221 TS  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 6:53:58pm

Get set folks, if he get elected...we may get hit and hard, again.

222 solomonpanting  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 6:54:27pm
Like the Ben & Jerry's crowd that supports him, Obama believes "real" national security is "humanitarian foreign aid" — essentially using our troops as international meals-on-wheels in Africa.
We've been down that road before, too, in Somalia and elsewhere. Thanks, but we don't need a third Clinton, or a second Carter, term.

Obama would bend over forewards as his assumed position.

223 6pat6  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 6:55:51pm

OBAMA/ELLISON '08

This is very possible, boys and girls!

224 RichatUF  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 7:17:54pm

re: #31 FredWM

Indeed. This is a Wired write up on his proposal. American Thinker had a take as well. Add together his plans to defund missile defense and gut space exploration he could very well kill any independent launch capability.

225 Maine's Michael  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 7:31:43pm

re: #218 reno911

What weapon system is that? We have armed satellites?

What are you, shtooopid?

A larger part of the war could have been fought by drones and UAV's, in realtime, data and control bounced off satellites to people physically removed from the theater. Even to stripmalls in Georgia.


Are you advocating going back to dumb bombs? Your post is just several uninformed rants. Where do you get your info? Kos?

Another stooopid straw man argument.

Big difference between one-man, one missile pinpoint targetting and dumb bombs. Rmoving the enmey one or two men at a time makes the fight palatable and tolerable to the enemy population, and removes incentive for popular pressure to cease hostilities.

'Low intensity conflict' translates into eternal conflict.

The Russians had the right idea with Chechnya. We had the right idea with Germany and Japan.

Fighting a war on the cheap, with pinpoint munitions, with both eyes on the arab street, was a recipe for disaster.

The 'surge', a late and partial correction, in making tenuous progress, but too late as far as most of the American population is concerned.

The Idiot-in-Chief has torpedoed his own party.

The only chance for a save is Obama being unmasked as a duplicitous but charismatic incompetent, and right now, the media wants nothing to do with that - so it's going to be an uphill battle, with far too much at stake.

Take that as a KOS perspective if you want, for all I care, but I don;t think it is.

226 RedStateBlueCity  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 7:33:48pm

re: #54 godfrey

and Soros is the puppeteer.

227 EE  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 7:33:51pm

This disarming of America, including gutting any missile defense, will be a change that you can believe will be a nightmare that will expose us to the mad mullahs of Iran with nuke-armed missiles. These mad mullahs yearn for an apocalypse that will bring about the needed chaos to cause the Hidden Imam, the 12th Imam, the Mahdi, to appear and bring the world under the rule of Shiite Islam. When they have nuclear armed missiles, they will be able to realize their dream of causing the global chaos to force the appearance of the Mahdi.

These are dangerous times we live in, because of these religious fanatics ruling Iran, and because these religious fanatics are pursuing nuclear weapons and long range missiles. These dangerous times are not the time for America to disarm, especially regarding missile defense.

For America to elect a President Barack Hussein Obama who wants to gut our missile defense would not only be wrong, it would be the gravest and most dangerous and reckless mistake that would put our cities at risk from nuclear missile attack from the mad mullahs of Iran.

228 RTLM  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 7:43:32pm

I don't think Obama will be elected President.

229 MadNachos  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 7:54:43pm

"I will not weaponize space."

Gonna just let the Chinese have free run?

230 funky chicken  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 8:02:58pm

re: #209 Mike McDaniel

This is why this election has me worried.

Few people realize just how badly run down the armed forces are. We've been on a 15-year procurement holiday. With predictable results...half of the USAF's F-15 force is grounded and headed for the boneyard, a third of the Navy's P-3s are grounded in desperate need of replacement, and Marine squadrons are trading clapped-out 15-year-old F-18Cs for even older F-18As that still have some structural life left in them. The Navy has a stated requirement for 313 ships (the actual requirement is arguably closer to 400), but has about 270...with that number shrinking by the month. And the Army is just fried.

We are heading for a replay of the 1970s...Vietnam used up surplus weapons from World War 2 and Korea, then used up the money that was to replace the old hardware. Everybody figured that after the war concluded, we would be able to rebuild...but the money got pumped into welfares instead. With devastating consequences.

This time, the price tag is likely to be higher.

231 valdez  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 8:18:16pm

Amazing. In the middle of a war...

232 Reno911  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 8:27:26pm

re: #225 Maine's Michael

Talk about stupid. You are arguing both sides. Here you say we could have won the war by remote control. By the way, what is it about remote control for you non-warriors? Some kind of video game fetish?

A larger part of the war could have been fought by drones and UAV's, in realtime, data and control bounced off satellites to people physically removed from the theater. Even to stripmalls in Georgia.

And here you say "pinpoint targeting" (remote control) does not work.

Big difference between one-man, one missile pinpoint targetting and dumb bombs. Rmoving the enmey one or two men at a time makes the fight palatable and tolerable to the enemy population, and removes incentive for popular pressure to cease hostilities.

Which is it, KOS boy? You have probably never been out of Maine and definitely have not slung any steel. Loser.

233 Dirk Diggler  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 8:34:58pm

Folks, "President" Obama will have the power to roll back sea levels. It goes without saying that the U.S. would be impervious to a conventional or nuclear attack during his presidency.

Obama's kinda like the Star Child from Arthur C. Clarke's 2001. Should the Iranians, North Koreans, or Chinese have the audacity to launch a first strike, "President" Obama would simlply destroy their incoming salvos with a waive of his hand.

234 krypto  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 8:40:06pm

He will NOT weaponize space?

Is he really unaware that the GPS system is managed by the United States Air Force 50th Space Wing, and is of central importance in military targetting?

What's he going to do, take it out of the hands of the military so that our bombers miss their targets when the military has to act, and blow up lots more civilians because they can't aim straight anymore?

I think OB may once again be publicly displaying his ignorance of things a President ought to know.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

235 infidelia  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 8:44:33pm

re: #227 EE

This disarming of America, including gutting any missile defense, will be a change that you can believe will be a nightmare that will expose us to the mad mullahs of Iran with nuke-armed missiles. These mad mullahs yearn for an apocalypse that will bring about the needed chaos to cause the Hidden Imam, the 12th Imam, the Mahdi, to appear and bring the world under the rule of Shiite Islam. When they have nuclear armed missiles, they will be able to realize their dream of causing the global chaos to force the appearance of the Mahdi.

These are dangerous times we live in, because of these religious fanatics ruling Iran, and because these religious fanatics are pursuing nuclear weapons and long range missiles. These dangerous times are not the time for America to disarm, especially regarding missile defense.

For America to elect a President Barack Hussein Obama who wants to gut our missile defense would not only be wrong, it would be the gravest and most dangerous and reckless mistake that would put our cities at risk from nuclear missile attack from the mad mullahs of Iran.

Yeah, but after the Iranian nukes wipe out Israel and maybe a couple US cities for good measure, Barry can stand up on the podium and muse about how "disappointed" he is and that "this is not the Mahmoud Ahmadinejad I know".

236 Spiny Norman  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 8:44:39pm

You can't hold ground by remote control.

As I recall, Bill Clinton did the "remote control" thing with Iraq back in 1998. Saddam was expecting more of the same in 2003.

I also recall Clinton lobbed a few cruise missiles Al-Qaeda's way, too. Osama bin Hidin' and his boys were not impressed, either, were they?

237 Maximu§  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 8:51:25pm

re: #223 6pat6

OBAMA/ELLISON '08

This is very possible, boys and girls!

No, no....I don't think so. Obama is trying to paint himself as a Christian and distancing himself from his Muslim upbringing.....but, if he brought Ellison aboard, the gig would be up for sure.

In regards to this disarming America video.....I wonder if McCain will be smart enough to use this video for a campaign commercial?

238 Spiny Norman  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 9:05:52pm

re: #234 kryptore: #234 krypto

He will NOT weaponize space?

Is he really unaware that the GPS system is managed by the United States Air Force 50th Space Wing, and is of central importance in military targetting?

What's he going to do, take it out of the hands of the military so that our bombers miss their targets when the military has to act, and blow up lots more civilians because they can't aim straight anymore?

I think OB may once again be publicly displaying his ignorance of things a President ought to know.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

Very probably.

re: #237 Maximu§

In regards to this disarming America video.....I wonder if McCain will be smart enough to use this video for a campaign commercial?

Very probably not.

The good Senator has a position on the "high road" to maintain...

239 useless  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 9:10:25pm

This is being a "Progressive?" Killing Future Weapons System development? What the hell is he going to do? Take away the M-16 and replace it with the M-1 so that we don't appear too aggressive as well?

Hell, I went into the Army to get to play with these Future Weapons Systems, and if the Obahmassia has his way, I'll soon be out of a job too. At least we'll have the government to feed us, clothe us and wipe our dirty little bums.

240 big L  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 10:02:12pm

50 Hello...the Gop won't run the video of barry's disarmament of USA. No guts.
Also M'Cain will be following the Marquis de Queensbury rules in his 'high road' campaign.Which means that he really won't campaign. He'll dance around and parry a bit.
And look like a fool. We'll have to carry him over the goal line. Of Course he'll have plenty of venom against conservatives and people that do NOT want amnesty.
That is easy for him.
So we will have to figure out the way to get the video or transcript out.
For me, copies go with me to Starbucks, wherein I leave them behind on the tables or with the piles of newspapers. Maybe dumb but easy.

241 Zim  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 10:44:20pm

How long before he bans these types of website?

242 Yankee Division Son  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 11:24:43pm

Has this progessive pacifist ever thought, for one second, that if he does gut the military and we are attacked again, what's he gonna say?

More importantly, what the hell he's gonna do about it without a strong military?

Some one (MSM I'm looking at you) has to ask these questions.

243 Biff  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 11:24:48pm

Generations of Americans have been removed from the military or even the belief in the necessity of a strong defense, and Obama is their leader. It is a complete irony that the peace and security brought about by our professional military and national defense has lulled a vast proportion of the population into believing such provisions are neither necessary nor responsible for their peace, freedom, and comfort. We are suddenly unraveling at a much faster pace than Rome.

244 Biff  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 11:27:02pm

First the military, then the Second Amendment. Obama is committed to self preservation.

245 Biff  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 11:29:58pm

What would Obama have done after Pearl Harbor? What would Obama have done after 9/11? What will Obama do the next time the enemy comes knockin?

246 Yankee Division Son  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 11:33:41pm

re: #245 Biff

What would Obama have done after Pearl Harbor? What would Obama have done after 9/11? What will Obama do the next time the enemy comes knockin?

That's excatly my point, ok hypothetical question Senator Obama. Let's say your sworn into office in Jan 2009. On may 1st of that year, a nuclear bomb goes off in New York City. (god forbid)

What is your plan of action?

247 Muadib  Sat, Jun 7, 2008 11:47:32pm

Barrak Obama can take his socialist agenda and shove it up his ***.

248 Captain Jack  Sun, Jun 8, 2008 4:07:43am

Liberals strip a law abiding population of its ability to defend itself and announce it to the general population (gun control) and then act surprised when predators start picking them off. Obama is in that liberal camp that thinks we must "lead" by example and hopefully other nations will follow. Its the same flawed philosophy behind the movement that wanted to unilaterally disarm ourselves of nuclear weapons. I have no doubt that if China or Russia thought they could militarily win a war with the US they would. Liberals fear some future leader of the will use the US militaries power to take over the world (that is why nuclear scientist spies first passed along nuclear secrets to the USSR). Liberals don't buy that America represents the "good guys". Obama feels that these moves will win us the good will of the world which they keep reminding us. The "world" thinks the US is a greedy nation that takes too much of the "pie of wealth". Their leaders tell them we have stolen from them through our imperialism. They don't see it that profits are being taken form new wealth created as in incentive the spurs even more innovation and wealth creation. Ironically, we are scapegoated as the reason for lack of wealth and poverty in the world when we are really the reason for improved standards of living.

249 eaglewingz08  Sun, Jun 8, 2008 5:07:07am

You know that Obamanation was raised and tutored by commies because this is nothing less than the unilateral disarmament and nuclear moratorium scheme that was the rage in the commie camps in Europe during the Reagan Administration, funded by the USSR in its attempt to prevent the USA from locating Peacemaker missiles in Europe. Thankfully, despite the protests of the Obamanation's leftist pals in Europe, there were sane gov'ts in Old Europe who accepted the USA missile defense and the USSR soon crumbled.
The Obamanation is truly frightening in his ignorance and what that global ignorance could lead to. First, we don't need to negotiate to take our missiles off 'hair trigger alert'. Although I don't think our missiles have been on 'hair trigger alert' since the collapse of the USSR. But maybe those hair trigger ICBMS are located in the additional nine states that the Obamantion discovered in his campaign travels? Second, how do you verify the other side has taken their missles off hair trigger alert too? Third, the Obamanation has no understanding of nuclear technology, after eight years of non maintenance, a significant part of our deterrent factor would go up in smoke irreparably and the costs of replacing them from scratch would be very great and could not be done in a short time should say other countries attack our allies. Fourth, suppose China and the Soviet Union or North Korea or Iran attack the US or Europe or Japan or Taiwan or South Korea, in a world without nuclear weapons, and without our 'weaponized' space capabilities. (Or suppose they sign a treaty, and merely hide their capacities until they are assured the USA has disarmed)? How many conventional US military forces would be needed to offset the three million Chinese military,the two million Russian Military, the One Million NK military and the one million Iranian Military without us having nukes? Does anyone with even half a brain believe that the dems and the Obamanation would fund the conventional military forces that would be needed to balance those forces, let alone to allow the US to maintain its military superiority? Sixth, what would happen to our allies if they see the US military disarm? Since they would no longer be protected and could not be protected by us, and since they do not have the capacity due to their parasitic socialist spending programs to fund the increases necessary to close the gap, the likelihood is that they would go over to the enemy with appeasement or side with anti US interests in order to avoid outright occupation or attack.
The Obamanation is wrong on so many levels, that he should demand a refund of his college tuition, because he is the victim (willing) of massive educational malpractice at Harvard.
But the country does not have to accept this charlatan, and I pray that they reject him ala McGovern, 1972.

250 glasscitygirl  Sun, Jun 8, 2008 5:16:42am

I suppose it is a little for this comment, but "future combat systems" should be capitalized. It is the U.S Army's multi-year modernatzation program. - A big budget and thus an easy target for budget cuts.

"The Future Combat Systems (FCS) program is an Army modernization initiative designed to link soldiers to a wide range of weapons, sensors, and information systems by means of a mobile ad hoc network architecture that will enable unprecedented levels of joint interoperability, shared situational awareness and the ability to execute highly synchronized mission operations."

[Link: www.boeing.com...]

251 Maine's Michael  Sun, Jun 8, 2008 6:36:20am

re: #232 Reno911

Thanks for the ad hominems, and the chicken-hawk allusion. Fuck you too.

Why do you assume remote control weapons have to be pinpoint?

I'm not dancing around the issue. It is very simple. When the enemy is not massed in typical western battle configurations, but rather embedded among populations that support them, it is impossible to kill the combatants en masse without civilian casualties, and any attempts to do so results in low intensity conflict that lasts, well, forever.

Russia used the tried and true solution in Chechnya and it worked for them. Solutions that worked for us in WW2. Over the long run, these are probably kinder and more sparing of civilian populations, but there are more short term civilian casualties.

Too late in Iraq, and the surge is working, sort of - and will continue to work if it is maintained.

But there is now a distinct chance that it will not be maintained, and al the blood and treasure spent so far may go wasted if Obama has his way.

It is the complete and utter mismanagement of the first 4 years of the war, and the analingus of the arab world that has torpedoed the Bush presidency, and brought us to this risky state of affairs.

252 reno911  Sun, Jun 8, 2008 6:54:02am

re: #251 Maine's Michael

If your so inclined, here's what happened to Bush.

Democrats

253 mikedevx  Sun, Jun 8, 2008 7:30:21am

Some of the hyperbole here is quite fun, but I do think it's overstating the case.

First some quotes, then my own position...

"When this creature makes noises about respecting the Second Amendment, keep in mind that he does not think it necessarily allows you either to bear arms or to keep them."
- calling another person a "creature"? dangerous word, but I do understand your disgust

"There's a whole slew of us who are almost afraid to sleep at night because of the terror that the future could hold."
- I think you should "beware of false imaginings, for they are a vexation to the soul".

"re: #157 ploome hineni
...this frigging election is not good for my mental health
It's not helping my blood pressure, either."
- I agree heartily! I detest nearly all of Obama's positions! I just don't see benefit to demonizing anyone...

#181 by Colonel Panic
- This is a great one to start with if you have decided you'd better start arming up. I've been saving these as I find them. I'm a 100% supporter of the right to defend your home and property with firepower, and I will be buying a shotgun and some other type of firearm this summer, just in case Obama gets elected.

My general comment: If Obama is elected, he will simply be following in the tradition of our only other two Democrat presidents since 1970. Carter and Clinton both gutted the military. Carter had a refusal to use the military in any meaningful manner. The only time he used it was the hastily prepared, horrifyingly executed, dreadful and disastrous exercise to free the Iranian hostages. And he executed that one not at a time and manner of best choosing but solely to save his sorry political skin approaching the 1980 Reagan election. Clinton achieved a balanced budget based solely on the internet explosion and drastic cuts to the military.

Obama's simply not very different from them. I don't see that he needs any special demonization compared to them. Perhaps we are mostly scared because he's such a damned effective speechmaker and rallier. He could be the Left's Reagan, with corresponding capability of influencing the direction of the nation via the Presidential Bully Pulpit. That would make him more effective than Carter or Clinton... and therefore more dangerous to the Conservative Cause.

254 Maine's Michael  Sun, Jun 8, 2008 10:27:37am

re: #252 reno911

Thats a lengthy but well thought out analysis.

The technique of creating discontent and "talking all things Bush down" paid big dividends for the Democrats in 2006. Devoid of credible ideas and solutions, they had nevertheless worked a strategy leading to the re-acquisition of at least some of the political power they had lost during their wilderness years after the Reagan Revolution. The 2006 election confirmed the effectiveness of their "destroy Bush" election strategy. And so the Democratic Party's attacks on Bush and the Republicans increased to a ferocious level, even as Iraq turned a corner towards security and political stability.

Of course, Bush gave them an awful lot to work with.

255 lazlo  Sun, Jun 8, 2008 11:03:01am

I don't know... I sure didn't get "dismantle the military" from those statements. As conservatives it would seem to me that ridding our government of wasteful spending would be seen as a positive thing. Lord knows we've seen obscene spending from the Neocons.

256 oldbluesboy  Sun, Jun 8, 2008 11:04:27am

OBAMA'S PLAN TO DISARM WHITE AMERICA

Add together:
Tony Rezko (Syrian -American)+
Wright (former NOI)+
Farrakhan (NOI)+
Jesse Jackson +
Al Sharpton +
Khalid Abdul Muhammad +
Malik Zulu Shabazz +
New Black Panther Party Ten Point Program (Read all these points. It tells the whole story) +
James Cone +
Karl Barch.......

and you get the TOTAL --->
Obama

Who do you think went with Jackson in 1984 to SYRIA to free the Navy pilot?
Wright and Farrakhan.

These are the backbone of the African Liberation Marxist Ideology, using Theology as a conduit.

Google them all and make no mistake about it; Obama is their poster boy.

257 Egfrow  Sun, Jun 8, 2008 10:09:25pm

This man will do great harm to the United States.


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