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Hentoff Disillusioned

Fri, Jul 18, 2008 at 8:15:10 pm PDT

Of all the Village Voice socialists, Nat Hentoff has always seemed the most intellectually honest, and the most willing to critically examine the received leftist wisdom. And now he’s disillusioned about Barack Obama.

During my more than 60 years of covering national politics, I have never seen a candidate’s principles and character so effectively tarnished — after so extraordinarily inspiring a start — as Barack Obama’s. He has come to resemble another mellifluous orator I came to know in Boston during my first time reporting on a campaign — James Michael Curley, the skilful prestidigitator whom Spencer Tracy masterfully played in the movie “The Last Hurrah.” Obama’s deflation has not been due to ruthless opposition research by John McCain’s team but by the “change” candidate himself. Like millions of Americans, I, for a time, was buoyed by not only the real-time prospect of our first black president but much more by the likelihood that Obama would pierce the dense hypocrisy and insatiable power-grabbing of current American politics.

Also, as a former teacher of constitutional law, Obama gave me “hope I could believe in” that he would rescue the Constitution’s separation of powers, resuscitate the Bill of Rights and begin to restore our reputation around the world as a truly law-abiding nation.

Savoring the high expectations he had secured among so many Americans, Obama has decided he can also come closer to securing the Oval Office by softening his starlight enough to change some of his principles toward the calming center of our stormy political waters.

In a defense by Dan Gerstein, a New York political consultant — echoing what you’ll be hearing more of from Obama’s campaign operatives — the gossamer script goes: “He is trying to broaden his appeal to a larger electorate and to be true to this postpartisan, unifying message that he’s been campaigning on.” But instead of the ennobling clarion trombones of CHANGE we have been promised, this “adjusting” of one’s principles has long been the common juggling of our common politicians.

Accordingly, as his presidential campaign gathered such momentum, Obama, with justifiable pride, pointed to the resounding fact that most of the bountiful funds he was raising came from small donors, “the people,” not the sort of supporters who move above us in private jet planes.

But after abandoning his pledge to abide by public financing, this apostle of cleansing the political culture is now going after the high rollers. As the July 3 New York Times reported, “Last week, the Obama campaign collected about $5 million at an event featuring celebrities in Los Angeles. The evening began with a dinner at the Dorothy Chandler Pavilion for more than 200 people who had contributed $28,500 per couple, or raised $50,000.” Then there is the current furor among a rising number of Obama contributors with wallets far below the $50,000-a-pop crowd about his change on the “compromise” FISA Amendments Act of 2008 that passed the House and Senate, and has been signed by the grateful president.

He’s still wrong about a lot of things, but at least he isn’t wearing partisan blinders.

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206 comments

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1 noshariaincanada  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 8:15:44pm

cracks are starting to appear.

Change !

2 Sharmuta  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 8:16:48pm

The bloom is fading from the rose, and it's not going unnoticed.

3 RTLM  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 8:17:03pm

Arrogance and naivety are a BAD combo.

4 jaunte  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 8:18:41pm

"Professor Obama." Now that's sly.

5 RTLM  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 8:18:44pm

I am hopin g its a cascading effect and that it spills into the House ans Senate as well.

Get the incompetent Dems out of the majority.

(post haste)

6 Hucbald  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 8:19:04pm

Enlightened, for a retard.

7 Metal Man  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 8:20:23pm

Obama is starting to feel like a crapy high budget movie.

Enough good stuff to fill the trailers but once the public sees the whole thing they are sorely disappointed.

8 BignJames  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 8:20:32pm

Just another hack.

9 ContraJihadi  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 8:20:40pm

Thanks, Charles. Nat Hentoff is the one leftist whom I respect and whom I never felt that if I read him, I would be soiling myself.

10 RTLM  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 8:20:55pm

Obama: "Yeah, I'll just use the Brandenburg Gate as a photo prop in my European euro-fawn tour."

Not.

11 mossley  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 8:22:04pm

I think the more introspective and/or honest members of the left realize what a total boob they're stuck with, and that he has the potential to do a lot of harm to the party.

12 Drill_Thrawl  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 8:22:16pm

Hey Nat,

It really sucks when your messiah turns out to be just another lying pol doesn't it?

-- Drill Here, Drill NOW, Drill_Thrawl

13 flexthink  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 8:22:36pm

I have always found Hentoff to be a fairly principled person, from his defense of Lenny Bruce through to the today. The fact that he has taken on Obama and is becoming disillunsioned is an excellent sign that others in the msm (who admire Hentoff) will start to see him for what he is.

14 FightingBack  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 8:25:15pm

Hentoff is a racist.
//

15 LSD  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 8:25:31pm

May many more Libs wake up and smell the Sanka ...

16 Shug  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 8:27:16pm

Like a Viagra , Obama's effect was impressive for a short time but once he wore off

well you know

17 freedombilly  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 8:27:42pm

The public finance flip-flop should at least make his supporters pay attention. I doubt most of them will.

This is the scariest candidate of my lifetime. And I ain't exactly singing the praises of Mr. McCain.

18 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 8:27:59pm

If you think you are immune to Obama's bus, think again.

19 freedombilly  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 8:28:26pm

re: #16 Shug

Like a Viagra , Obama's effect was impressive for a short time but once he wore off

well you know

If Obama inspires you for longer than 4 hours, consult a physician immediately.

20 FurryOldGuyJeans  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 8:29:47pm

Leave a turd out in the sun long enough and it truly does begin to stink.

21 rlevitin  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 8:29:55pm

re: #17 freedombilly

I've seen supporters say "so what! he doesn't want to use the publics money, who cares?"

The ones who really have the blinders on will never see reason.

22 solomonpanting  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 8:30:09pm

The flimflam candidate ....

Wow

23 pingjockey  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 8:30:50pm

Psst...Nat, he's a Chicago pol. Also, those aren't unicorns and cotton candy trees around him. It is George Soros and his money.

24 jcw46  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 8:31:25pm

Waaiiittt a minute; he's only upset because Obambi hasn't remained faithful to the nutroots talking points. He's not upset because the O has shown himself to be an idiot but because he's shifted his viewpoint to the right so's to attract the moderates.

25 Typicalwhitey  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 8:31:37pm

Can they vote in Hillary at the convention?
Or is obambi the only person they can vote for?

26 formercorpsman  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 8:31:56pm

I will admit up front, I don't read the Village Voice really.

Have read a few articles, but my instinct about this publication is envisioned with a hammer and sickle.

Am I wrong?

I have more to add, but I am curious to see how far off the mark I might be.

27 HelloDare  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 8:32:11pm

re: #21 rlevitin

I've seen supporters say "so what! he doesn't want to use the publics money, who cares?"

The ones who really have the blinders on will never see reason.

A true messiah is supposed to cure the blind, not make people blind.

28 Mich-again  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 8:33:02pm
He has come to resemble another mellifluous orator I came to know in Boston during my first time reporting on a campaign — James Michael Curley, the skilful prestidigitator whom Spencer Tracy masterfully played in the movie “The Last Hurrah.”


Hmm. What teh heck do them big werds mean?

29 Slumbering Behemoth  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 8:33:22pm
Obama’s deflation has not been due to ruthless opposition research by John McCain’s team but by the “change” candidate himself.

More and more, I am starting to consider McCain's "hang back" tactic to be a wise one. Rather than go on the offensive, he seems to be letting his opponent tire himself out, waiting for him to leave himself open, at just the right moment, for a devastating counter.

Of course, I could be wrong.

30 rlevitin  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 8:33:39pm

re: #28 Mich-again

Hmm. What teh heck do them big werds mean?

I dunno about Mellifluous, but a prestidigitator is a magician... means: slight-of-hand

31 FrogMarch  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 8:34:33pm

Obama is the Hollywood candidate.

32 yesandno  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 8:35:04pm

I blame the ignorance of the American people for this.

We think that politicians are somehow not political. They are.

When did Presidents have to represent not the best of us, but all of us?

33 bosforus  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 8:35:18pm

The rain came down and the floods came up and the house on the sand washed away.

34 Catttt  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 8:35:55pm

Turn and face the strange
Ch-ch-Changes

35 Shay4l  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 8:36:05pm

Obama, with justifiable pride, pointed to the resounding fact that most of the bountiful funds he was raising came from small donors, “the people,” not the sort of supporters who move above us in private jet planes.


Yeah, those 10s of million$ keep rolling in every month, month after month, from the "little people".

SURE!

36 Mich-again  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 8:36:08pm

Yellow lines and Obamarillos.

37 StudSupreme  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 8:36:31pm

It is HILARIOUS watching the Moonbats turning on their Messiah!

38 Typicalwhitey  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 8:36:48pm

re: #29 Slumbering Behemoth

Yesterday at the town hall, McCain put his views out there and then contrasted them with obambi.
The partial birth abortion thing was a hit.
He also said " Obama has given a speech on his position on Iraq. Of course, he did this before going to Iraq. Now I don't know about others, but I always go on a fact finding mission first and THEN state my position"
LOL

39 Biff  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 8:37:00pm

First the New Yorker, now the Voice, the New York libs are getting desperate to stop the Obama disaster, and to give Hillary one more chance.

40 tripletdad  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 8:37:01pm

Hentoff's not going to be very popular at those cocktail parties anymore.

41 jcw46  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 8:37:06pm

re: #33 bosforus

The rain came down and the floods came up and the house on the sand washed away.

Hey, I remember that from Sunday school. Lot of good lessons learned there.

42 tommygum  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 8:37:07pm

Buyer's remorse!

43 Sharmuta  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 8:37:12pm

re: #29 Slumbering Behemoth

Letting him hang himself could very well pay off in the end- time will tell.

44 freedombilly  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 8:37:26pm

re: #26 formercorpsman

I used to read it from time to time when I was living in Manhattan. I would read the music articles and sometimes "accidentally" fall into the political ones. It was hard to keep a straight face on the subway.

45 Shug  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 8:37:45pm

The beer goggles wore off and Obama is suddenly coyote ugly

46 FrogMarch  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 8:37:45pm
47 HelloDare  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 8:37:45pm
--prestidigitator--

That's who Obama reminds me of. David Copperfield.

48 stuiec  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 8:38:06pm

At least Nat still has jazz to believe in.

49 Catttt  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 8:38:10pm

re: #37 StudSupreme

It is HILARIOUS watching the Moonbats turning on their Messiah!

Yes. Of course, first they have to stop kissing his butt, and then they have to get up off their knees.

More pleez.

50 tchad  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 8:38:12pm

Hentoff is always worth reading. A sane, honest, pro-life lefty. Rare bird.

51 Biff  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 8:38:29pm

re: #35 Shay4l


It's Middle Eastern money, possibly being funnelled through the oil tick investment banks on Wall Street.

52 yesandno  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 8:38:45pm

re: #36 Mich-again

Yellow lines and Obamarillos.

[Link: www.pjstar.com...]

53 HelloDare  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 8:39:06pm

re: #47 HelloDare

That's who Obama reminds me of. David Copperfield.

Copperfield made the Statue of Liberty disappear. Oh-oh.

54 tommygum  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 8:39:15pm

re: #29 Slumbering Behemoth

More and more, I am starting to consider McCain's "hang back" tactic to be a wise one. Rather than go on the offensive, he seems to be letting his opponent tire himself out, waiting for him to leave himself open, at just the right moment, for a devastating counter.

Of course, I could be wrong.

That was Rocky's strategy.

55 Slumbering Behemoth  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 8:39:26pm

re: #28 Mich-again

Hmm. What teh heck do them big werds mean?

A prestidigitator is someone who is an expert at "sleight of hand". I would have used the word prevaricator, but I guess that works just as well.

I don't know the other one. :dusts off dictionary:

56 bosforus  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 8:40:28pm

re: #41 jcw46

Hey, I remember that from Sunday school. Lot of good lessons learned there.

The wise man built his house upon the rock
The wise man built his house upon the rock
The wise man built his house upon the rock
and the rain came a tumblin' down

the rain came down and the flood came up
the rain came down and the flood came up
the rain came down and the flood came up
and the house on the rock stayed still

The foolish man built his house upon the sand
The foolish man built his house upon the sand
The foolish man built his house upon the sand
and the rain came a tumblin' down

the rain came down and the flood came up
the rain came down and the flood came up
the rain came down and the flood came up
and the house on the sand washed away

Hooray for sunday school!

57 Mich-again  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 8:41:31pm

re: #52 yesandno

[Link: www.pjstar.com...]

ROFL! Has PETA sen that?

58 Neo Con since 9-11  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 8:42:04pm

re: #50 tchad

Also a harsh critic of China and Cuba and has repeatedly called for Western feminists to stand up against Sharia law's oppression of women. Very rare bird indeed. If you don't want to pollute your computer at VV JewishWorldReview also carries his articles.

59 Purple Prose  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 8:42:18pm

Welcome to Obamaland. Tabula rasa. Arugula with Bill Ayers. Marriage vows and baptisms officiated by Jeremiah Wright. Real estate deals with Tony Rezko. Dinner dates with Edward Said. Blown kisses toward Louis Farrakhan. Yes, the audacity of hope.

Yet the great Liberal Hope turns out to be Chameleon-man Obama, the great Zelig of American politics. What a shocker! The guy is Chicagoland through-and-through, the place that never really stopped believing Al Capone was a great American hero.

Obama is worse than an unknown. Without any record of accomplishment, he has shown that he will do and say and throw anyone under the bus (including his grandmother) to get closer to his ultimate dream: absolute power. That's what motivates this guy. He wants power.

Generally, the desire for power comes with some idea or, dare one say, vision of what one could do with such power. In this case, power is the sum total of it all. Bill Clinton looks like Gandhi in comparison to this kind of ambition without aim or goal or backbone or anything.

Obama is about gaining power. He wants this as the ultimate bullet point on his resume and because he believes he is just plain great for being Obama. This makes Obama dangerous. He is visionless. He is bearingless. He cares little about facts or truth. He cares little about even those who believe that change will usher in a great new world. He cares about change, any change that will bring Obama into the most powerful position in the world. He cares about Obama. This guy is like Stalin. Power and power alone. Who knows how he'd act if he got into office. He just wants the power. Everything else is a wild card.

The scariest thing is not that we can guess an Obama presidency will be like but that we cannot guess what an Obama presidency will be like.

60 ContraJihadi  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 8:43:20pm

re: #26 formercorpsman

I don't read the Village Voice either. I have come across Nat Hentoff's writings through links and other secondary sources. My sample is not exhaustive, but from what I have read, I can say with confidence that he writes intelligently, compehensively, and without the distracting ad hominems that clutter the prose churned out by others on the left.

I get the feeling that if Nat Hentoff and I were to enter into a debate, each would intelligently and conscientiously present the facts and underlying interpretations just as he understood them, and each would wait courteously while the other made his case before offering his most thoroughly considered response.

61 Drill_Thrawl  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 8:43:37pm

re: #54 tommygum


Ali's Rope-A-Dope!

62 freedombilly  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 8:43:47pm

re: #57 Mich-again

How is the family holding up the last couple of days? Hope everything is well.

63 ted  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 8:44:15pm

Reading the VV was de rigeur if you once were a NYC young naive leftist...like I used to be.

64 Slumbering Behemoth  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 8:44:35pm

re: #38 Typicalwhitey

re: #43 Sharmuta

re: #54 tommygum

I think another benefit of this style results in not giving Obama something to counter against. Obama has been given very little material to work with in the "McCain has said this/that about me" department.

65 formercorpsman  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 8:45:37pm

re: #44 freedombilly

So I am not far off the mark?

66 freedombilly  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 8:46:38pm

re: #65 formercorpsman

It has been almost ten years but no, not that far off the mark.

67 jcw46  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 8:46:57pm

re: #63 ted

Reading the VV was de rigeur if you once were a NYC young naive leftist...like I used to be.

That's full of redundancies :>

I too was once young and naive;

Any man who is under 30, and is not a liberal, has no heart; and any man who is over 30, and is not a conservative, has no brains."

68 Slumbering Behemoth  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 8:47:37pm

re: #43 Sharmuta

Letting him hang himself could very well pay off in the end- time will tell.

I am not good enough at the game of politics to know when the iron is hot enough to strike. I only hope that McCain can see the right moment and start striking hard.

69 JeremyR  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 8:48:14pm

re: #19 freedombilly

If Obama inspires you for longer than 4 hours, consult a physician immediately.

Don't wait four hours. If Obama inspires you at all, seek a mental health professional, or the towns best proctologist.

70 pingjockey  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 8:48:55pm

re: #68 Slumbering Behemoth Well they do have an ad out, or someone does using obambis own words against him. Stuff he's flipped on in the last 3 months or so.

71 Mich-again  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 8:50:11pm

re: #62 freedombilly

Thanks. Almost back to normal. Not that normal means much around here. Looking forward to seeing how the 9th grader makes it through double sessions for the 1st time a few weeks from now.

72 formercorpsman  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 8:51:50pm

re: #60 ContraJihadi

Fair enough.

He is not, but the direction of V V is lurching pretty hard leftward.

It is good Charles finds this stuff, and gives it life.

Very interesting to actually see someone from the side not only recognize the discrepancies, but actually put them in print, is something else.

I guess I'm taken so much, because in my time of acknowledging politics, I can't recall anyone, not anyone, even Bill, having as much of a free ride.

Creepy free ride, halos by the most secular of the secular, etc.

73 Mich-again  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 8:53:19pm

re: #72 formercorpsman

Creepy free ride,

Indeed it is. Its hard to watch so many ignore so much.

74 daledog  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 8:53:33pm

re: #33 bosforus

Jimi knew.

75 realwest  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 8:53:56pm

Well Charles is certainly correct when he says that
"Of all the Village Voice socialists, Nat Hentoff has always seemed the most intellectually honest,...".
And for a long time I read Nat Hentoff's extraordinarily fine articles about American Jazz music. He was always informed, intelligent and passionate about the subject (even if we disagreed frequently).
But when he turned to, almost exclusively, political writing, Nat was, I fear, intellectually compromised by the Communist/Socialist writers and editors of the Village Voice. That he comes out now - NOT against Obama, but somewhat disillusioned by him, is no surprise; it would take a truly flying pig moment for any "major" writer at the Village Voice to come out against Obama.
Still, it's nice to see that Nat has at least started to recognize this Chicago Machine Political Hack for what he is: just another politician.

76 Purple Prose  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 8:54:23pm

The main McCain talking point should be:

Who is Barack Hussein Obama?

Nobody knows. Nobody on the Left. Nobody on the Right.

It's the only question on which everyone agrees.

77 Thanos  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 8:54:52pm

Nat Hentoff is one of the few honest and morally consistent people remaining on the left. e.g. He's anti-death penalty, but also anti-abortion for the same reason.

I don't agree with him most of the time, but I do respect him.

78 Slumbering Behemoth  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 8:55:24pm

re: #70 pingjockey

Well they do have an ad out, or someone does using obambis own words against him. Stuff he's flipped on in the last 3 months or so.

I saw that earlier. From my perspective I thought it was well done and rather damaging to Obama. Still, it will do nothing to sway the faithful.

Barack could eat a live puppy on the grounds PETA HQ, and there will still be a crowd there that would cheer him on. [total hyperbole on my part]

79 Mich-again  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 8:57:35pm

re: #77 Thanos

He's anti-death penalty, but also anti-abortion for the same reason.

What reason is that? hmm.

80 Thanos  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 8:58:58pm

re: #79 Mich-again

What reason is that? hmm.

He values life, all life. He wrote a long piece about it in the VV a long time ago IIRC.

81 eastvillageinfidel  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 8:59:09pm

re: #63 ted

I thought it was just for apartment and job listings. :)

82 jcw46  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 8:59:46pm

re: #68 Slumbering Behemoth

I am not good enough at the game of politics to know when the iron is hot enough to strike. I only hope that McCain can see the right moment and start striking hard.

For what it's worth; I believe McCain is wisely playing a waiting game because of the weight of influence the MSM can throw in favor of Obambi. Patience is a game older people play more often because of limited energy/resources. It is mental judo, letting your opponent trip himself up and expending little or no energy of your own. This allows you to face more threats and shows you to be the superior strategist to your supporters. It makes your youthful and impulsive enemies more cautious thus restricting their most dangerous assets; greater energy and unpredictability.

Patience and circumspection is a requirement for advancement to higher command positions in the military.

83 formercorpsman  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 8:59:56pm

re: #73 Mich-again

Yes, my exact feelings.

How far must you delude yourself to look past every discrepancy over his campaign, and not at least start to question, "what do I really know about his guy"?

Yeah, great speech in 2004, but where the hell did he come from?

That question at least needs come up in some of those minds, it has to.

84 ggt  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 9:00:35pm

good Evening Lizards! How goes the FNDT?

I have been so busy, I have no idea what is happening in the world.

It's kinda nice, but I don't think long-term ignorance will lead to bliss.

How are you-all and what are we talking about?

85 formercorpsman  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 9:01:26pm

Guys, I'm getting ready to jump.

A/C finally went this week.

I am sweating as I type.

Beer.

86 Drill_Thrawl  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 9:01:35pm

re: #82 jcw46


Age and treachery beats youth and enthusiasm everytime.

87 ted  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 9:03:00pm

re: #67 jcw46

That's full of redundancies :>

I too was once young and naive;

Any man who is under 30, and is not a liberal, has no heart; and any man who is over 30, and is not a conservative, has no brains."

Winston Churchill

88 Noam Sayin'  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 9:03:13pm

re: #85 formercorpsman

Get a laptop and a wireless router. Strip to your civies and post from your porch.

Sorry, ladies. No webcam.

89 Mich-again  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 9:03:34pm

re: #80 Thanos

He values life, all life.

Do you think that view is based on a religion or just on his own principles?

90 jcw46  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 9:04:16pm

re: #86 Drill_Thrawl

Age and treachery beats youth and enthusiasm everytime.

Well, most of the time.
Sometimes ya get blind-sided and zap; that's it.

"There are old pilots and there are bold pilots but there aren't many old, bold pilots".

91 Opilio  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 9:04:38pm

re: #86 Drill_Thrawl

Age and treachery beats youth and enthusiasm everytime.

I wager 1000 quatloos on the aged one.

92 ted  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 9:04:54pm

re: #81 eastvillageinfidel

I thought it was just for apartment and job listings. :)

And escort services.
:>)

93 profitsbeard  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 9:05:22pm

When you start with the busload of illusions that Hentoff checks off in regard to Obambi, only Barry flying in on a woman-faced mule would have kept Nat's ludicrous fantasies intact.

Who the hell believes such absurd drivel about any human being?

94 little boomer  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 9:05:24pm

re: #88 Noam Sayin'

Get a laptop and a wireless router. Strip to your civies and post from your porch.

Sorry, ladies. No webcam.

I guess we're all done with Hentoff's Disillusionment, huh?

95 MandyManners  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 9:06:49pm

I've butted head with him for many years.

96 Drill_Thrawl  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 9:07:02pm

re: #90 jcw46

Well, most of the time.
Sometimes ya get blind-sided and zap; that's it.

The One is too incompetent to blind side McCain.

97 realwest  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 9:07:03pm

re: #84 ggt Hey there ggt! Well we are mostly talking about Obama and some of us have actually talked about Nat Hentoff's disillusionment with Obama! LOL!
How are you doing tonight?

98 Metal Man  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 9:07:12pm

re: #87 ted

The story of Icarusmay not fit exactly but does show why one picks people with the experiences of a longer life for leaders.

99 formercorpsman  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 9:07:16pm

re: #88 Noam Sayin'

Actually, at first I thought you were referring to my bachelor party.

100 ggt  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 9:08:36pm

re: #97 realwest

Hey rw! Doin' fine, thanks for asking. How you doin'?

I see we are almost clear for OT. My question for the night is (drumroll)":

What is everyone reading right now?

101 realwest  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 9:09:39pm

re: #86 Drill_Thrawl
AHEM! "Age Experience and treachery beats youth and enthusiasm everytime."
There, fixed that for ya!

102 Slumbering Behemoth  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 9:10:15pm

re: #82 jcw46

I dig what you're saying, but to be fair: patience is not a virtue exclusive to older people. I know many older folks who don't have any measure of patience, and ones younger than me that exhibit it to astonishing degree.

My patience (to whatever degree I have) was gained by growing up poor and being stubborn.

With McCain, I speculate that his patience (likely magnitudes deeper than mine) did not come with age, but was hard earned by five years of torture in a dirt pit.

103 JeremyR  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 9:10:22pm

re: #100 ggt

Hey rw! Doin' fine, thanks for asking. How you doin'?

I see we are almost clear for OT. My question for the night is (drumroll)":

What is everyone reading right now?

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

104 Killer Tomato  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 9:10:24pm

re: #85 formercorpsman

Guys, I'm getting ready to jump.

A/C finally went this week.

I am sweating as I type.

Beer.

Mine went too. Made 2 quarts of lemonade earlier. Sipping that and have a fan going on high. Swear my hair is sweating.

105 Drill_Thrawl  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 9:10:44pm

re: #101 realwest

I knew I was a little off. Thanks!

106 MandyManners  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 9:10:48pm

re: #88 Noam Sayin'

How ya' doin', sweetie?

107 little boomer  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 9:10:48pm

re: #100 ggt

"The Inimitable Jeeves" it's a panic!

108 Mich-again  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 9:10:51pm

re: #100 ggt

What is everyone reading right now?

Your post. And watching the USA vs Argentina on ESPN Classics. shh. Don't tell me how it ends, I haven't seen this one before and its 0-0 at halftime.

109 realwest  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 9:11:28pm

re: #100 ggt Well actually, I think LGF protocol is usually 150 comments before everyone goes OT, but it might be sooner here, since few people know the Village Voice and, apparently, fewer still know about Nat Hentoff!
I'm doing ok, just anxiously and painfully waiting to see the damned Oral Surgeon on Tuesday!

110 jcw46  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 9:11:28pm

re: #100 ggt

Hey rw! Doin' fine, thanks for asking. How you doin'?

I see we are almost clear for OT. My question for the night is (drumroll)":

What is everyone reading right now?

"Golf For Beginners" Stephen J. Ruthenberg
(I need to exercise but despise sweating just to sweat. I need to be DOING something).

111 Noam Sayin'  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 9:11:40pm

re: #94 little boomer

?

112 realwest  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 9:12:53pm

re: #105 Drill_Thrawl
No problem! Glad to do it anytime! LOL!

113 reine.de.tout  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 9:14:05pm

re: #100 ggt

Hey rw! Doin' fine, thanks for asking. How you doin'?

I see we are almost clear for OT. My question for the night is (drumroll)":

What is everyone reading right now?

"Chasing Darkness" by Robert Crais (fiction)
"Moment of Truth in Iraq" Michael Yon (non-fiction)

114 little boomer  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 9:14:10pm

re: #111 Noam Sayin'

?

Just noting that the zeitgeist seemed to be ready to go OT-
on offense meant.

115 Killer Tomato  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 9:14:35pm

re: #100 ggt

Hey rw! Doin' fine, thanks for asking. How you doin'?
I see we are almost clear for OT. My question for the night is (drumroll)": What is everyone reading right now?

One Continuous Fight: The Retreat from Gettysburg and the Pursuit of Lee's Army of Northern Virginia, July 4-14, 1863

116 Noam Sayin'  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 9:14:42pm

re: #106 MandyManners

ButtCam 2008 went off without a hitch. Won't be back for another five years.

I was still gooned on Versed when I got home, so I couldn't take myself out for a bite. Made myself three PBJ samiches.

117 ggt  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 9:14:46pm

re: #109 realwest

I thought it was 100.

118 solomonpanting  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 9:14:51pm

re: #75 realwest


Still, it's nice to see that Nat has at least started to recognize this Chicago Machine Political Hack for what he is: just another politician.

Not just another politician. A naive, unprincipled, unknown, unaccomplished, empty platitude speaker whose "friends and acquaintances" do much to tarnish both his character and decision-making process.

119 realwest  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 9:15:25pm

re: #113 reine.de.tout
Is "Chasing Darkness" about Elvis Cole and Pike?

120 ggt  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 9:15:36pm

re: #109 realwest

ooooh, Oral Surgery. I am sorry.

121 reine.de.tout  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 9:15:36pm

re: #119 realwest

Is "Chasing Darkness" about Elvis Cole and Pike?

yes.

122 Noam Sayin'  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 9:15:53pm

re: #114 little boomer

Just noting that the zeitgeist seemed to be ready to go OT-
on offense meant.

You might want to skip over my #116. That's may very well start an OT Butt thread.

123 reine.de.tout  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 9:16:22pm

re: #119 realwest

Is "Chasing Darkness" about Elvis Cole and Pike?

You need to get it to read while you're recovering. I'll be sorry when I'm through with it.

124 Charles  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 9:16:25pm

"The Cleanup" by Sean Doolittle. Just finished it. Terrific crime novel.

125 bosforus  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 9:17:18pm

re: #74 daledog

Jimi knew.

Funny how truths tend pop up all over.

126 Drill_Thrawl  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 9:17:23pm

re: #100 ggt

Hey rw! Doin' fine, thanks for asking. How you doin'?

I see we are almost clear for OT. My question for the night is (drumroll)":

What is everyone reading right now?

"The Last Patriot" - Brad Thor
"An Inconvenient Book" - Glenn Beck (very silly)

127 Noam Sayin'  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 9:17:26pm

Did Nat Hentoff write for Rolling Stone or Musician magazine? I seem to remember reading his stuff with regularity back in college.

128 Charles  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 9:17:38pm

Just ordered "Chasing Darkness" from Amazon. Thanks for letting me know about it!

129 MandyManners  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 9:17:39pm

re: #116 Noam Sayin'

ButtCam 2008 went off without a hitch. Won't be back for another five years.

I was still gooned on Versed when I got home, so I couldn't take myself out for a bite. Made myself three PBJ samiches.

Crunchy or plain?

130 MandyManners  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 9:18:39pm

re: #127 Noam Sayin'

Did Nat Hentoff write for Rolling Stone or Musician magazine? I seem to remember reading his stuff with regularity back in college.

So did I.

131 realwest  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 9:20:04pm

re: #117 ggt Well, maybe you're right - don't really know, just always thought 150 was the number (except for something truly significant and breaking news).
BTW, did anyone post about the earthquake in Japan tonight? A 7.0 on the East Side of Japan with a Tsunami warning issued?

132 Noam Sayin'  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 9:20:25pm

re: #129 MandyManners

No peanuts for the next 72 hours - plain.

Besides, I like my peanut butter like I like my women - smooth, sweet &

You know. I just decided that I'm not goinng to go there. Leaves too much open for innuendo.

133 realwest  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 9:20:59pm

re: #118 solomonpanting
Ah yep, what you said.

134 jcw46  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 9:21:33pm

re: #102 Slumbering Behemoth

I dig what you're saying, but to be fair: patience is not a virtue exclusive to older people. I know many older folks who don't have any measure of patience, and ones younger than me that exhibit it to astonishing degree.

My patience (to whatever degree I have) was gained by growing up poor and being stubborn.

With McCain, I speculate that his patience (likely magnitudes deeper than mine) did not come with age, but was hard earned by five years of torture in a dirt pit.

And to be fair, you're correct but also to be fair; I never made a claim to patience being exclusive to older people or impatience only to younger people. It is a lesson that usually takes some time to learn and most younger people are usually (dare I say) impatient for immediate results. Thus it is more often found in older more experienced people.

135 Slumbering Behemoth  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 9:21:47pm

Well, it is that time, gotta go. Cheers all!

/I'd say play nice, but that's for kids. Instead? Enjoy yourselves!

136 mikalm  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 9:21:55pm

I've always considered Hentoff the one principled and decent columnist on a rag that's otherwise been for over forty years an oozing fount of destroy-AmeriKKKa-now Leftism, identity-politics pimping, urban-hipster snobbery, and PoMo/Decon gobbledegook. That he's seen through Barry O doesn't surprise me in the least.

137 realwest  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 9:22:06pm

re: #120 ggt Yeah, ME TOO! LOL!
Also I'm a little cheesed off that I missed that last thread. Darnit. I posted what I woulda posted anyway, but everyone had gone by then, RATS!

138 MandyManners  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 9:23:33pm

[Link: www.creators.com...]

There are few prospects in the justice system so grimly awful as when the feds decide never to let go. Rebuffed in their persecutions of some target by juries, or by contrary judges, they shift ground, betray solemn agreements, and dream up new stratagems to exhaust their victims and drive them into bankruptcy, despair, and even suicide. They have all the money and all the time in the world.

139 BignJames  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 9:23:43pm

re: #132 Noam Sayin'

Sticks to the roof of your mouth?

140 freedombilly  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 9:23:46pm

re: #100 ggt


What is everyone reading right now?

I have just started reading The Brothers Bulger: How They Terrorized and Corrupted Boston for a Quarter Century by Howie Carr. Wow is it a page turner. As a native of the Boston area it hits pretty close to home. That being said, the life stories of Whitey Bulger (the number 2 man on the FBI most wanted list behind Bin Laden) and his brother Billy (aka "The Corrupt Midget", the former president of the Massachusetts Senate and UMass) would interest someone regardless of where they are from.

Highly recommended.

141 realwest  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 9:24:03pm

re: #128 Charles Ah! Are you an Elvis Cole and Pike fan or just a fan of Robert Crais in general?
I've like just about all his books, but it took me a couple of Cole and Pike books to get over my being put off at his ripping off Robert Parkers's Spenser and Hawk!

142 reine.de.tout  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 9:24:09pm

re: #128 Charles

Just ordered "Chasing Darkness" from Amazon. Thanks for letting me know about it!

heh. And I just ordered the Doolittle book from Amazon. Plus the 3 other paperbacks.

143 ggt  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 9:24:13pm

so far the only books I even recognize are Michael Yon's and The Inconvenient Book. Both are in my house, in the book's to read pile.

I know I sound like a broken record, but, please folks, put the others that you'd recommend in the Books Links --for future reference. And remember, any purchases from the links count as tips to Charles.

I'm reading (actually, listening) to Amerigo by Felipe Fernandez-Armesto. So far the narration is difficult, but the writing is interesting.

I just finished Umberto Eco's "The Mysterious Flame of Queen Luana", which is typical Eco. Strange, but I like it. I didnt' like the ending.

I also finished Ariana Franklin's "Mistress in the Art of Death" which was a suprisingly different and very good mystery.

144 ggt  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 9:25:11pm

re: #130 MandyManners

I read Rolling Stone in college. Back when Hunter S and PJ were regular contributors.

Am I dating myself?

145 Fat Jolly Penguin  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 9:25:21pm

re: #67 jcw46

Any man who is under 30, and is not a liberal, has no heart; and any man who is over 30, and is not a conservative, has no brains."

Crap. Guess that makes me a heartless turd, then.

/oh, but you should have seen how many kids my age were in the audience last night for Glenn Beck! A veritable moonbat's nightmare.

146 MandyManners  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 9:25:22pm

re: #132 Noam Sayin'

No peanuts for the next 72 hours - plain.

Besides, I like my peanut butter like I like my women - smooth, sweet &

You know. I just decided that I'm not goinng to go there. Leaves too much open for innuendo.

You asshole! Just recently you bitched about the absence of trees.

147 realwest  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 9:27:57pm

re: #127 Noam Sayin'
HEY NOAM! Geez, ya know I don't know - I just remember all his terrific Jazz columns and essays for the Village Voice!
And he was a Fulbright scholar and in 2004, Hentoff was named as one of six NEA Jazz Masters by the US National Endowment for the Arts, the first non-musician to win this award. (thank you Wiki [Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

148 Noam Sayin'  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 9:27:59pm

re: #139 BignJames

Sticks to the roof of your mouth?

That's one of the reasons...

149 ggt  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 9:28:31pm

re: #137 realwest

Yeah, Obambi is beginning to take Eliot Spitzer's role of "the gift that just keeps on giving".

At least to those have a bit of knowledge of history.

150 mikalm  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 9:29:42pm

re: #144 ggt

I read Rolling Stone in college. Back when Hunter S and PJ were regular contributors.

Am I dating myself?

Yup. Just like I do when I tell the young folk I read National Lampoon when it was publishing the O.C. and Stiggs tales (some of the funniest stuff ever written there -- imagine a somewhat more intelligent and yet far more perverse Beavis and ButtHead...)

151 jcw46  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 9:30:50pm

re: #144 ggt

I read Rolling Stone in college. Back when Hunter S and PJ were regular contributors.

Am I dating myself?

Well it depends; have you taken yourself to a good movie, dinner out lately or a romantic stroll in the moonlight?
If so, then narcissim may be lurking in your future.

152 realwest  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 9:31:04pm

re: #135 Slumbering Behemoth With all due respect, "Play nice" was Obi-wan's "sign off" before he passed away a little over a year ago - and he was one of the finest posters, IMO, on LGF. A fellow Vietnam Veteran and very good, close friend of mine as well.
"Play Nice" isn't for kids, but for the truly young at heart.

153 cheatypantsmcsweatervest  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 9:31:12pm

re: #29 Slumbering Behemoth

More and more, I am starting to consider McCain's "hang back" tactic to be a wise one. Rather than go on the offensive, he seems to be letting his opponent tire himself out, waiting for him to leave himself open, at just the right moment, for a devastating counter.

Of course, I could be wrong.

Rope-a-messiah?
Using the Ali/Foreman reference . . . not, well you get what i'm trying to avoid.

154 MandyManners  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 9:31:16pm
155 Charles  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 9:32:33pm

re: #141 realwest

Ah! Are you an Elvis Cole and Pike fan or just a fan of Robert Crais in general?
I've like just about all his books, but it took me a couple of Cole and Pike books to get over my being put off at his ripping off Robert Parkers's Spenser and Hawk!

I like the Robert Crais books a lot. Other crime genre favorites: Michael Connolly, Charlie Huston, and Dennis Lehane. And of course, Elmore Leonard.

156 solomonpanting  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 9:32:34pm

That's what we want to know, too. Who is this guy?

157 MandyManners  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 9:32:41pm

re: #127 Noam Sayin'

Seriously, how are you doing?

158 realwest  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 9:32:56pm

re: #144 ggt Yes.
But it's ok, you're among friends!

159 Noam Sayin'  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 9:33:50pm

re: #147 realwest

*noogie*

How ya doin' bro?

As long as ggt started it...

IHOP, or Perkins?

I'm taking a scooter ride in the morning, destined for a stack of buttermilks. I have no time to weigh out the possibilities of some kitchy, little restaurant having the best pancakes you'll ever taste (Swoboda's in Garrison, MN). I want a stack of cakes and sausage patties.

160 Son of the Black Dog  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 9:34:17pm

re: #6 Hucbald

Enlightened, for a retard.

Careful, some time back we had an extensive discussion about not using the "R" word. Offensive to too many people here - me included.

161 wolfie  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 9:34:45pm

re: #144 ggt

I read Rolling Stone in college. Back when Hunter S and PJ were regular contributors.

Am I dating myself?

If I admit I know just what you're talking about, I would be dating myself, too!

Reading right now...........
Outside of work stuff, I've been slowly going through Chantal Delsol's Unlearned Lessons of the Twentieth Century and merrily flipping through Wondrous Tales from India whenever I can snatch it away from the kids.

162 ggt  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 9:35:12pm

re: #151 jcw46

Well, no, but I do sleep with myself. :O

163 mattm  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 9:35:56pm

I bet he will implode before the election.

164 reine.de.tout  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 9:36:00pm

re: #155 Charles

I like the Robert Crais books a lot. Other crime genre favorites: Michael Connolly, Charlie Huston, and Dennis Lehane. And of course, Elmore Leonard.

If you like that batch of authors, you might try Randy Wayne White's "Doc Ford" series. It isn't necessary to read them in order, but the first is "Sanibel Flats", and 2nd one is "The Heat Islands", and then there are 12 or 13 more.

165 Thanos  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 9:36:15pm

re: #100 ggt

Hey rw! Doin' fine, thanks for asking. How you doin'?

I see we are almost clear for OT. My question for the night is (drumroll)":

What is everyone reading right now?


Time magazine because it's got an article on Mark Twain, otherwise I normally wouldn't buy it.
Re-reading The Amber series by Zelazny, Mushashi, On War, The Reagan Diaries, and The Physics of Immortality by Tipler.

The last is a combination pseudo-science / pseudo-religious speculative book. Basically asserts that we are becoming god, that god doesn't exist but since he's omipotent, he will exist therefor he does exist now, therefor therefor.. etc.
I like it because it makes me think since it has many false assumptions and "does not follow" arguments. It does spur the imagination however.

My wife's on a big Jeffrey Deaver kick, the house is now littered with his paperbacks. They are forensic / police procedural mysteries to my understanding. Very empirical.

166 jollypigeon  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 9:36:17pm

Life long New Yorker. Have read Hentoff on and off since the early 80s. Disagree with a lot of his politics, but he is an intellectually honest man, a good guy, not a hack, not a moonbat. He is the type of liberal who you would agree with his aims, just not his way of achieving them.

167 ggt  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 9:36:35pm

re: #158 realwest

thanks!

168 realwest  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 9:37:05pm

re: #155 Charles Ha! I don't know anyone who doesn't like Elmore Leonard!
But here's an author you should check out: John Sanford - he's written maybe 20 some odd Detective type books - all superb IMHO - with the word "Prey" in the title - they are excellent reads and extremely literate too (John Sandford is the Nom De Pume of Pulitzer Prize winning journalist
John Camps).

169 Drill_Thrawl  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 9:37:22pm

re: #143 ggt

What is this "Books Link" you speak of?

170 Noam Sayin'  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 9:37:29pm

re: #157 MandyManners

Little tired from a rather long day. But I got in a scooter ride before my procedure, and the good doc found nothing in my colon so I won't have to do that for another five years.

171 realwest  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 9:38:21pm

re: #156 solomonpanting
I believe that that "guy" is in fact Uma Thurman! LOL!

172 newsjunkie_ky  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 9:38:29pm

Hey Realwest,
Have you read any Jefferson Bass books about the Body Farm?

173 Catttt  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 9:39:30pm

re: #155 Charles

I like the Robert Crais books a lot. Other crime genre favorites: Michael Connolly, Charlie Huston, and Dennis Lehane. And of course, Elmore Leonard.

I haven't read a lot in that genre for a while, with the exception of the excellent (unique) Charlie Huston. I'm on the wait list for his latest, Every Last Drop, which is out in a couple of months. I read the vampire novels first, then I got all his other books.

174 mikalm  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 9:39:44pm

Oooh -- a book thread!

Any true crime fans out there? If you haven't done so already, check out Kent Walker's Son of a Grifter -- the most amazing story of a sociopathic criminal and killer I've ever read.

175 ggt  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 9:40:12pm

re: #169 Drill_Thrawl

ah, up in the spin-off links there a BOOK category. If there is any book you feel strongly about and would like to share, post it there. Link to the Amazon.com page for the book. Any purchases made thru the link earn Charles a little something. It's any easy way to add to the LGF tip jar AND to keep a resource of Lizard Book Recommendations.

176 Eyes of Blue  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 9:40:48pm

re: #156 solomonpanting

That's what we want to know, too. Who is this guy?

Ha ha ha I clicked Al Sharpton and it still said I won.

177 reine.de.tout  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 9:41:02pm

re: #168 realwest

Ha! I don't know anyone who doesn't like Elmore Leonard!
But here's an author you should check out: John Sanford - he's written maybe 20 some odd Detective type books - all superb IMHO - with the word "Prey" in the title - they are excellent reads and extremely literate too (John Sandford is the Nom De Pume of Pulitzer Prize winning journalist
John Camps).

Realwest - I suggested that Charles try an author named Randy Wayne Whitere: #164 reine.de.tout

If you like John Sanford, Robert Crais, Robert B Parker, Elmore Leonard, Michael Connelly, etc. - well, you may also like Randy Wayne White.

Just a suggestion, for consideration.

178 realwest  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 9:41:09pm

re: #159 Noam Sayin'
Great, just great Noam - I've had this horrendous toothache for four days and your talking about eating sausages! Why are you torturing me?! LOL!
Hope you have good weather for your scooter trip!

179 newsjunkie_ky  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 9:41:48pm

re: #168 realwest

I've been listening to Sanford's 'prey' books lately. Pretty good.
I also love Ed McBain's 87th Precinct series. And his 'Matthew Hope' series was really great. I still look at faces and see either a fox or a pig (and sometimes a turtle).

180 mikalm  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 9:41:54pm

As for mystery, this California boy has never read anyone nearly as good as the legendary Ross Macdonald. (I'm one of those heretics who thinks he was -- shudder! -- better than Chandler!)

181 reine.de.tout  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 9:43:45pm

I'm throwing out one more title I found interesting - then I need to get some sleep

This is non-fiction, by John Huddy, title is "Storming Las Vegas" - How a cuban-born, soviet-trained commando took down the strip to the tune of five world-class hotels, three armored cars and millions of dollars.

It was very interesting.

Good night, all.

182 realwest  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 9:44:34pm

re: #170 Noam Sayin'
Nothing in your colon? Way to go Noam! That's really a relief - the doc who discovered my prostate cancer was discovered to also have prostate cancer, by getting a colonoscopy about a year after they discovered mine!
Just great news my friend. Great news.

183 Drill_Thrawl  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 9:46:10pm

re: #175 ggt

Very Cool. Thanks.

184 wolfie  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 9:49:33pm

re: #174 mikalm

Oooh -- a book thread!

Any true crime fans out there? If you haven't done so already, check out Kent Walker's Son of a Grifter -- the most amazing story of a sociopathic criminal and killer I've ever read.

Yup. I'm a fan!
I've noted your suggestion.

185 realwest  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 9:51:42pm

re: #172 newsjunkie_ky
Geez, no I haven't - and don't even know about the topic (confession here; haven't read an entire book except for Michael Yon's "Moment of Truth in Iraq" in a looong time now.

186 ggt  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 9:51:51pm

two new threads upstairs, now I have to make a decision. UGH!

187 wolfie  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 9:51:58pm

re: #174 mikalm

It's a funny thing. I've never really liked mysteries & detective fiction,
but I love a good true crime book.

188 profitsbeard  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 9:53:06pm

re: #168 realwest

Ha! I don't know anyone who doesn't like Elmore Leonard!
But here's an author you should check out: John Sanford - he's written maybe 20 some odd Detective type books - all superb IMHO - with the word "Prey" in the title - they are excellent reads and extremely literate too (John Sandford is the Nom De Pume of Pulitzer Prize winning journalist
John Camps).

The two book series about P.I. John Blake (shortest detective career in literary history) by Richard Aleas (anagram of the real name of the author Charlies Ardai, founder of juno.com) are both worth a read: "Little Girl Lost" and its sequel "Songs of Innocence".

Reminsicent of Raymond Chandler's work, especially his "The Little Sister".

Now in the middle of Jack Edwards' "BANZAI YOU BASTARDS!", a WW II memoir about the guys Obama thinks dropped the A-Bomb on Pearl Harbor.

189 ggt  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 9:54:35pm

All Right, I made the decision,

I am going to bed.

Night all!

weet dreams.

190 realwest  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 9:55:15pm

re: #179 newsjunkie_ky
Um, sorry that I missed this before, but did you say you've been listening to Sanford's books?

191 newsjunkie_ky  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 9:57:29pm

re: #185 realwest
Check them out. Written by two guys.(jefferson & bass) One is the guy who has 'the body farm' in TN.

192 newsjunkie_ky  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 9:59:20pm

re: #190 realwest
Yes, I get them from the talking book library free of charge. Book print is too small for me to read comfortably, so I listen, instead.

193 realwest  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 9:59:41pm

re: #180 mikalm Are you kidding me? There was only ONE mystery writer who was better than Raymond Chandler and that was HIS idol, and inventor of the hard as nails private eye school, Dashiel Hammett - just an absolutely incredible writer.
Dash actually worked as a Private Investigator for the Continental Detective Agency in San Francisco before writing his first book, "The Continental Op" and then he went on to write "The Maltesse Falcon"
and numerous other books, including the entire Thin Man series.

194 newsjunkie_ky  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 9:59:51pm

heading to the 'onion' thread.

195 mikalm  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 10:01:58pm

re: #184 wolfie

I think you'll like it a lot. Nearly every page has some absolutely appalling anecdote about the villain.

196 Peter Verkooijen  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 10:02:24pm

Hentoff is wearing huge partisan blinders. For these people politics is religion. They really are waiting for a Saviour and they are convinced He (or She) will come from their ranks. They believe they are the chosen few. That some of them are now turning on Obama is NOT a sign of fair-mindedness, but of their fanaticism. When Obama is President, they will continue to push him ever further to the left.

197 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 10:04:40pm

What does this article have to do with evolution?

Walter in Golden, Co.

198 mikalm  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 10:06:32pm

re: #193 realwest

Yes, I've read all of Hammett's stuff. Definitely a first-rate writer, and the father of the entire genre. (He features the San Mateo Coast, where I live, as the scene of a lot of skullduggery in his books, largely because this area south of San Fran was a major receiving stop for bootleg booze during Prohibition.)

I guess I like Macdonald the best because he delved more deeply into peoples' psychological motivations, and the hidden histories of abuse and madness that lead to murder. Too, because he set his books in post-WWII California, they describe a world that's far more familiar and emotionally accessible to me than Chandler and Hammett's Depression and Forties noir.

199 NY Nana  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 10:25:30pm

re: #31 FrogMarch

Obama is the Hollywood Manchurian candidate.

Fixed it for you!

200 ploome hineni[deleted]  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 10:29:19pm
201 neocon hippie  Fri, Jul 18, 2008 11:14:27pm

Well, whaddya know, I go out and come back to find that Charles created a thread from a spinoff link I posted earlier today.

Haven't read the comments yet, but I always thought of Hentoff as one of the more principled lefties out there. He was also a bigtime jazz critic back in the 60's - 70's, not sure if he's done jazz writing recently.

202 Durkadurka  Sat, Jul 19, 2008 5:42:42am

Hentoff has actually come out consistently pro-life in contrast to his compatriots at the Voice. He has always been regarded as an intellectually honest thinker, as opposed to an idealogue. I think it was Charles Mingus in "Beneath the Underdog" who cited Hentoff as the only jazz critic he had any respect for.

203 Dr. Shalit  Sat, Jul 19, 2008 6:57:09am

re: #140 freedombilly

I have just started reading The Brothers Bulger: How They Terrorized and Corrupted Boston for a Quarter Century by Howie Carr. Wow is it a page turner. As a native of the Boston area it hits pretty close to home. That being said, the life stories of Whitey Bulger (the number 2 man on the FBI most wanted list behind Bin Laden) and his brother Billy (aka "The Corrupt Midget", the former president of the Massachusetts Senate and UMass) would interest someone regardless of where they are from.

Highly recommended.

"F-B" -

Read it, was good - Learned not to go into the Liquor Store Business in Boston without "touching base" first.

-S-

204 StinkHammer  Sat, Jul 19, 2008 7:09:09am
Of all the Village Voice socialists, Nat Hentoff has always seemed the most intellectually honest...

I second that. Even though he's markedly leftist in the thrust of his general views, Hentoff is also responsible for an anti-PC book I quite enjoy: Free Speech For Me, But Not For Thee. Recommended.

205 Occasional Reader  Sat, Jul 19, 2008 9:55:29am

Very late to this thread, but my dos centavos:


I only give Hentoff partial credit here. Okay, he's not just blindly obeying the Obamessiah. But to an extent, his complaint is "Obama's not being as hard-line doctrinaire a Marxist as he promised!" I have a little trouble a) crediting Hentoff for this particular complaint, or b) criticizing Obama by exactly that criterion.

Hentoff is on firmer ground pointing out the hypocrisy of, for instance, Barry's reneging of his pledge regarding public campaign financing.

206 desertbrat  Sat, Jul 19, 2008 5:48:57pm

re: #7 Metal Man

Obama is starting to feel like a crapy high budget movie.

Enough good stuff to fill the trailers but once the public sees the whole thing they are sorely disappointed.

Like a crappy B high budget movie!


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