Please, Sirs, can I have some more?
No, wait- I can't be channeling Serbs- it's only Monday.

The same people who ran new Concentration Camps in Europe... Terrible continent, troubled people!

Expecting a troll storm.

the right-wing Serbian Radical Party

Nice name.

Summer in the City

Dem activitists scribble furiously for tactics to use in Denver.

Oh Lord,.........The insanity...........GOD help us all

re: #2 winston06

The same people who ran new Concentration Camps in Europe... Terrible continent, troubled people!

Well, some were hoping that the EU would help break the trend of Euro nations being all in- bred and Xenophobic, but the "he who fails to learn from history..." rubric applies.

If the Serbs lead the charge against Islamo-fascism, it will be with another type of fascism, and it won't be pretty. Europe seems to have a hard time finding a center.

They should outsource the riots to Pakistan.

It's cheaper and the Pakistanis are getting antsy as they haven't rioted in days.

It's nothing a whiff of grapeshot can't cure.

Treat Karadzic's demonstrators with the same compassion that he showed to those who were murdered under his supervision.

Nothing like good old Karadzic black mail. Back off Radovan or we'll repeat history.

That's really not all that different than what Sudan's genocidal regime in Khartoum has been doing. Bashir's regime had supporters come out and protest against the ICC considering war crimes and genocide charges, despite the overwhelming and clear evidence of Khartoum being behind the genocide and ethnic cleansing in Darfur.

No need to change the channel. It's the same story, with different names.

Even Eric Rudolf had his admirers.

Karadzic is a sadistic butcher to be sure, but watch for the MSM to spin this story to highlight the "muslims as victims" meme.

Count on it...

Add break- away Kosovo to the mix.
Gonna get uglier.

The MSM will allow us to hear only of the crimes committed by the Serbs against the Kosovar Muslims -- we are not allowed to hear of the crimes that were committed by the Kosovars against the Serbs.

I bet they won't have any splodey-dopes.

Should be fun to watch European "soft power" in action over this. The International Criminal Court could amuse itself - and justify its lavish funding - for the next 10 years just issuing indictments for every individual rioter.

re: #17 Fritz_Katz

The MSM will allow us to hear only of the crimes committed by the Serbs against the Kosovar Muslims -- we are not allowed to hear of the crimes that were committed by the Kosovars against the Serbs.

Who cares. They've all been building to this for hundreds of years. Each side used Palestinian- style public ed. techniques and every other dirty thing they could do to build resentment against "the others". They will reap what they have sown.
Keep US out of it.

I have a real problem with the very existance of the so-called International Criminal Court. There are good reasons that the United States isn't a participant in that farce.

Let them learn obedience by the things which they suffer.

re: #7 Capitalist Tool

Well, some were hoping that the EU would help break the trend of Euro nations being all in- bred and Xenophobic, but the "he who fails to learn from history..." rubric applies.

They are destined to become Islamic states in a few decades. I fear the US will have to intervene and save their butts again.

re: #23 winston06

They are destined to become Islamic states in a few decades. I fear the US will have to intervene and save their butts again.

Good. That's good.
Let 'em.
Leave US out.

re: #21 Iron Fist

I have a real problem with the very existance of the so-called International Criminal Court. There are good reasons that the United States isn't a participant in that farce.

Having problems with the existence of the ICC is, in itself, a crime against humanity. Report to the ICC immediately to accept your punishment.

re: #9 Opinionated

They should outsource the riots to Pakistan.

It's cheaper and the Pakistanis are getting antsy as they haven't rioted in days.

You're right - I think Rage Boy has his resume up on Monster.

re: #25 Occasional Reader

Time for carousel? /enter sandman

re: #24 Capitalist Tool

Good. That's good.
Let 'em.
Leave US out.

Rrrrriiiight, Europe become Islamist would be "good" for us.

Please.

Serb politics.
You find 1,000 layabouts and promise them a day's pay and free meals if they get on a bus and got to a rally. Once you get them on the bus ( and timing is everything here) you give them enough beer to make them riot ( not enough to pass out, and not too soon or they rip up the bus).

Everyone in Serbia knew they had been hiding him for years.

He was "hiding" as a practicing doctor, in Belgrade! Give me a break!

The man's face is recognizable all across the Balkans, so obviously at least the government and the Serbian intelligentsia knew where he was and were actively covering his ass. Sounds like a 'witness protection program' of sorts they must have been running to protect him.

The man is a national hero of sorts in Serbia, but the new Serbian government, a coalition between the nationalistic blocks and the more pro-western moderate party, needed to make a symbolic gesture of good-will towards the EU/the West, by turning in this mass killer. Of course the government is split/paralyzed over the decision (don't think the Radical Party is on the fringes of the Serbian political spectrum, like the name of the party suggests; they are one of the biggest most influential mainstream parties) and it seems like the moderates chewed more than they could swallow with this move.

...despicable that mass murderers still have and will likely continue to have such popular support in Serbia to this day and age...

Obama will negotiate this & all will be well.

re: #24 Capitalist Tool

Good. That's good.
Let 'em.
Leave US out.

So we should just bury our heads in the sand and let the rest of the world go to hell in a handbasket, is that it?

Oh, and hello everyone.

re: #28 Occasional Reader

Rrrrriiiight, Europe become Islamist would be "good" for us.

Please.

It's in our interest to tell the world to eat their peas?

the 12th (unwritten) Commandment:
Thou shall not interfere.

I didn't know about LGF back when Kosovo declared unilateral soverignty...

What was the general Lizard consensus on that whole thing? (If I have to, I'll check it out later, but I don't want to go digging into it while at work)

re: #33 Capitalist Tool

It's in our interest to tell the world to eat their peas?

the 12th (unwritten) Commandment:
Thou shall not interfere.

Pat, is that you?

*rad*

re: #34 rlevitin

I didn't know about LGF back when Kosovo declared unilateral soverignty...

What was the general Lizard consensus on that whole thing? (If I have to, I'll check it out later, but I don't want to go digging into it while at work)

I believe the general consensus was that it was wrong.

re: #34 rlevitin

I didn't know about LGF back when Kosovo declared unilateral soverignty...

What was the general Lizard consensus on that whole thing? (If I have to, I'll check it out later, but I don't want to go digging into it while at work)

If I recall correctly, there were more than a few nasty trolls who popped up.

re: #32 Ford_Prefect

So we should just bury our heads in the sand and let the rest of the world go to hell in a handbasket, is that it?

Oh, and hello everyone.

At which point does the rest of the world "not" need to fend for themselves?
We did such a marvelous job saving the Vietnamese from the Commies.

re: #13 lawhawk

That's really not all that different than what Sudan's genocidal regime in Khartoum has been doing. Bashir's regime had supporters come out and protest against the ICC considering war crimes and genocide charges, despite the overwhelming and clear evidence of Khartoum being behind the genocide and ethnic cleansing in Darfur.

No need to change the channel. It's the same story, with different names.

With a different slogan too. According to many (even on this site, just wait for them!) Serbia's actions constituted a valiant effort to protect Western civilization...

No one but Bashir's deluded supporters thought he was anything but a murderous thug, whereas Slobo and his cronies have fans in the West,

re: #33 Capitalist Tool

It's in our interest to tell the world to eat their peas?

the 12th (unwritten) Commandment:
Thou shall not interfere.

There is a reason it was unwritten.

During an "event" in 1989 they actually backed up trucks full of rocks at just the right moment for the mob to start stoning each other.

Got one in Pakistan

Al-Qaeda chemical expert 'killed'

re: #34 rlevitin

What was the general Lizard consensus on that whole thing?

It was pretty mixed. Even after the Serbs raided our embassy a lot of people had a hard time realizing that the Serbs are maniacs.

As you sow, so shall you reap.
A simple extension of that natural law leads to the "Thou shall not interfere" dictum.

When and if an ally makes a plea for assistance, then we can help them, but we better make damned sure of what we are doing when we throw in with them.

re: #38 Capitalist Tool

At which point does the rest of the world "not" need to fend for themselves?
We did such a marvelous job saving the Vietnamese from the Commies.

That is the attitude that kept us out of WWII for so long "It's not our problem." How many thousands of lives could we have saved had we engaged earlier? We can't just sit back and wait for it to come to our shores again before we act.

re: #17 Fritz_Katz

The MSM will allow us to hear only of the crimes committed by the Serbs against the Kosovar Muslims -- we are not allowed to hear of the crimes that were committed by the Kosovars against the Serbs.

Please, let's hear them.

Europe's hypocrisy is amazing.

Yes, this guy should be executed for massacring 8000 people.

But the same should apply to those in Africa and the Mid East where 8000 people is a day in the park.

re: #36 Kragar (proud to be kafir)

I believe the general consensus was that it was wrong.

I remember it caused quite a bit noise. Lots of potential precedent in the whole thing.

re: #37 MandyManners

If I recall correctly, there were more than a few nasty trolls who popped up.

Trolls on which side? (I imagine there were trolls on both, actually)

re: #45 Ford_Prefect

That is the attitude that kept us out of WWII for so long "It's not our problem." How many thousands of lives could we have saved had we engaged earlier? We can't just sit back and wait for it to come to our shores again before we act.

It was our problem, but an incorrect understanding led to the attitude of which you speak, so yes, you are right.
Isolationism for its own sake is also wrong.

re: #43 Killgore Trout

It was pretty mixed. Even after the Serbs raided our embassy a lot of people had a hard time realizing that the Serbs are maniacs.

The whole region is full of maniacs.

The conflicts in the Balkans are very culturally rooted, and the rot goes deep.

re: #25 Occasional Reader,

I'm always just one step ahead of the Thought Police...

re: #48 rlevitin

Trolls on which side? (I imagine there were trolls on both, actually)

I seem to recall only trolls of the pro-Serbian ilk but, my memory could be faulty.

re: #52 MandyManners

I seem to recall only trolls of the pro-Serbian ilk but, my memory could be faulty.

I guess I'll be checking it out later, then.

re: #21 Iron Fist

I have a real problem with the very existance of the so-called International Criminal Court. There are good reasons that the United States isn't a participant in that farce.

Then again, those who wish to give up their national sovereignty, will get the treatment they deserve.

re: #50 rlevitin

The whole region is full of maniacs.

The conflicts in the Balkans are very culturally rooted, and the rot goes deep.

The prevailing attitude in America is to not understand grudges that go on for centuries.

re: #21 Iron Fist

I have a real problem with the very existance of the so-called International Criminal Court. There are good reasons that the United States isn't a participant in that farce.

What don't you have a problem with?

grouch.

Here is a respectable take on Kosovo from Michael J. Totten.

re: #20 Capitalist Tool

Who cares. They've all been building to this for hundreds of years. Each side used Palestinian- style public ed. techniques and every other dirty thing they could do to build resentment against "the others". They will reap what they have sown.
Keep US out of it.

I believed someone was banned as a troll here months ago for expressing the exact same sentiment, only instead of Albanians vs Serbs, he meant it about Israel vs the Palestinians. He basically didn't care and only wanted the US to stop giving taxpayer funds to Israel, i.e. keeping the US out of it. It's only sacrilegious when your own favorite people are treated with such nihilistic indifference.

And no, I am not saying any side were angels, but your nihilistic attitude is pretty sickening. Moral equivalence won't get you anywhere.

I'm off for lunch, c y'all lata!

re: #56 Peacekeeper

What don't you have a problem with?

grouch.

Why do you think he's called "Iron Fist"?

And you see me coming down on which side?
Moral equivalence to which group?

re: #49 Capitalist Tool

It was our problem, but an incorrect understanding led to the attitude of which you speak, so yes, you are right.
Isolationism for its own sake is also wrong.

True. I tend to get a little edgy when people talk about us staying out of things. We, as citizens of the US, are supposed to believe that all men are created equal and that all men are endowed with certain inalienable rights. Not just US citizens, but all men. Don't we then, as the world's only super power, have an obligation to do what we can to help all men become free?

If they don't play nice they're gonna loss their "Citizen of the World" status.

re: #55 MandyManners

The prevailing attitude in America is to not understand grudges that go on for centuries.

Just ask Jesse Jackson.

re: #58 medaura18586

Ps I'm a long way from being a Nihilist.
Read it again.

re: #55 MandyManners

The prevailing attitude in America is to not understand grudges that go on for centuries.

Or millennia.

"There will be peace in the Balkans when the Serbs love their children more than they hate the Muslims." (paraphrased from someone who knew a lot about the consequences of old grudges)

re: #60 victor_yugo

Why do you think he's called "Iron Fist"?

He needs more fiber in his diet... a good BM in the morning would really improve the outlook.

Didn't the other Serbian just so happen to die in jail awaiting trial? Was it a heart attack or suicide?

Maybe the guards just had their way with him...whatever his name was.

re: #55 MandyManners

The prevailing attitude in America is to not understand grudges that go on for centuries.

And of course we're reviled as "unsophisticated" because we don't grasp why someone would suddenly decide to murder their neighbors based on something that happened 600 years ago.

Viva la No-Sofisticación, says I.

re: #67 Peacekeeper,

Does roast puppy count?

re: #69 Occasional Reader

Shit we got us grudges that go back 600 threads....

re: #64 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Just ask Jesse Jackson.

He doesn't count.

re: #50 rlevitin

The whole region is full of maniacs.

The conflicts in the Balkans are very culturally rooted, and the rot goes deep.

Some are more maniacal than others. "a pox on all your houses" is the easy way out for people who don't find it worthwhile to get deep down into those cultural roots:

Beyond "ancient hatreds"--What really happened in Yugoslavia

He should be on the midnight plane out of there to the Hague. (Don't recall that Serbia's too concerned about due process since they allowed a Serbian basketball player who caused great injuries to New Yorkers to flee there, so doing the same in reverse shouldn't compromise any moral or legal principles of that country). Then the rioters turn up the next day and the gov't says, sorry too late, you can riot all you want but he's already out of the country. If you riot, we will arrest and prosecute you to the fullest extent of the law.

re: #62 Ford_Prefect

True. I tend to get a little edgy when people talk about us staying out of things. We, as citizens of the US, are supposed to believe that all men are created equal and that all men are endowed with certain inalienable rights. Not just US citizens, but all men. Don't we then, as the world's only super power, have an obligation to do what we can to help all men become free?

I would like to think that the blessings of liberty endowed to US by the Founding Fathers should be enjoyed by all men, but the world is as it is.

We can not be the arbiter of the mind of man.
That is a job for each man.
When those who would corrupt their own nation to satisfy their own ends, which is always the case, being human nature, then those men of that nation who yield to the abrogators of their own free consciousness must pay the price of their own unwillingness to defend their individual liberty.

It is not up to me to live their lives for them.
I've my own house to keep in order.

re: #71 Peacekeeper

Shit we got us grudges that go back 600 threads....

Look PK, don't start up with your "white zone" shit again. There's just no stopping in a white zone.

re: #66 victor_yugo

Or millennia.

"There will be peace in the Balkans when the Serbs love their children more than they hate the Muslims." (paraphrased from someone who knew a lot about the consequences of old grudges)

I don't buy that. If they love their children, they'll do what they must in order to keep them from being forced to convert to Islam. I'm not talking about what Karadzic did. I'm talking about moral actions of defense.

re: #72 MandyManners

He doesn't count.

Only up to twenty-one.

(Love-children, I think.)

re: #76 Occasional Reader

The red zone is for stopping. The white zone is for loading and unloading. /

In the Balkans there are no "good guys". Croats and Kosavars are equally as capable of ethnic cleansing as the Serbs are. The Kosavars are actively clearing the Serb populated areas of Kosovo using much the same tactics as the Serbs used against their Muslim (and Croat) minority populations. The international media has picked their side and reported only what suits their agenda (not that that would happen with the American media). The current agenda is that the Serbs are the bad guys. In WWII it was the Croats who could out-Nazi the Nazis. They and the Balkan Muslims happily slaughtered Serbs, who were allied with us and kept a whole German army tied up in the Balkans. Not that we should cut the Serbs any slack on their recent atrocities. However, we need to keep the whole Balkans business in perspective, and not try to make any of the three sides into choir boys. A plague on all three houses.

If you riot, we will arrest and prosecute you to the fullest extent of the law.

translates as shoot yer ass in that part of the world.

re: #60 victor_yugo

Why do you think he's called "Iron Fist"?

Duh! Because "Peacekeeper" was already taken.

re: #77 MandyManners

I don't buy that. If they love their children, they'll do what they must in order to keep them from being forced to convert to Islam. I'm not talking about what Karadzic did. I'm talking about moral actions of defense.

Bless U.

re: #66 victor_yugo

Not to excuse genocidal thugs like Milosovic & Karadzic, but the Serbs have been thoroughly screwed over several times this past century. They started the century as vassals of the Ottoman Empire. I think this has created a profound sense of victimhood and paranoia. The thugs played on that to hold onto power.

re: #69 Occasional Reader

And of course we're reviled as "unsophisticated" because we don't grasp why someone would suddenly decide to murder their neighbors based on something that happened 600 years ago.

Viva la No-Sofisticación, says I.

Our ancestors left the Old World for good reason.

re: #76 Occasional Reader

Look PK, don't start up with your "white zone" shit again. There's just no stopping in a white zone.

Thread derail ala Airplane link to youtube in . . .3. . .2. . .1. . .

re: #46 medaura18586
... crimes that were committed by the Kosovars against the Serbs.

Please, let's hear them.

According to the MSM, there have been no crimes -- the Kosovars have been Acquitted of War Crimes Against Serbs -- by the UN. And if the United Nations' International Criminal Tribunal says people are innocent, then they must be innocent. (do I need a /sarc tag?)

But, if you want to do some digging on an "alternate site", the Emperor's New Clothes is a start. Crime & Terror in the New Kosovo. Interviews & other Articles that Document NATO Sponsorship of Kosovo Terrorists.

God forbid that violent protests occur over anything except global warming and cartoons.. things like being attacked by islamo fascists and responding in kind should be forgotten..lets all shake hands and sing the international songs.

re: #80 Son of the Black Dog

Amen. From what I can see, the worst ones at any given moment were the ones with the most lethal weapons available.

Speaking of grudges, I think Charles might have to lift his anti-AP story source ban for this.

The AP is pushing a bogus story about a supposed massacre of Shiite pilgrims. Except it didn't happen. Again.

re: #55 MandyManners

The prevailing attitude in America is to not understand grudges that go on for centuries.

Yeah, that's what I meant. In far fewer words.

re: #75 Capitalist Tool

We can not be the arbiter of the mind of man.
That is a job for each man.

Germany? Japan?

The hell we can't.

re: #76 Occasional Reader

Look PK, don't start up with your "white zone" shit again. There's just no stopping in a white zone.

You think I've forgotten what you said to me on the Athens Olympics thread, but I haven't!

Bastard.

re: #80 Son of the Black Dog,

Sounds like they've got their plague. Maybe it'd be best if we just left them to their own devices, though. Funny how you don't hear Barrack Hussein Obama whining about how long American troops have been stationed in the Balkans, ain't it?

re: #90 lawhawk

Speaking of grudges, I think Charles might have to lift his anti-AP story source ban for this.

The AP is pushing a bogus story about a supposed massacre of Shiite pilgrims. Except it didn't happen. Again.

Heard that story on National Palestinian Radio (NPR) this am.

re: #61 Capitalist Tool

And you see me coming down on which side?
Moral equivalence to which group?

With both sides; to both 'groups'. You assume both propagandized and conflated their side of the story with Pallywood mastery until they made the truth too tangled up with their bullshit for anyone to care to learn what really happened, and who is worth supporting in the conflict. I find it intellectually lazy. Yes, the politics and history of the Balkans are a maze, but if you don't know what you are talking about and don't think it's worth learning, then please respectfully refrain from giving an opinion, instead of nihilistically assuming that because you don't see the differences, then none exist, and both sides are just guilty and/or deserving of scold and indifference.

re: #86 Creeping Eruption

Thread derail ala Airplane link to youtube in . . .3. . .2. . .1. . .

My version of the Declaration of Independence would have begun: "Look, let's just say you guys have issues, okay? Get back to us in a couple hundred years when you've worked them out."

re: #86 Creeping Eruption

Thread derail ala Airplane link to youtube in . . .3. . .2. . .1. . .

Surely, you jest.

re: #90 lawhawk

There's not enough bad news out of Iraq these days. They have to make it up.

re: #92 victor_yugo

Germany? Japan?

The hell we can't.

We had the right.
We exercised tht right and still do.
We still do for good reason. Ask any ex- General officer with European experience and he will tell you what that reason is.

re: #55 MandyManners

The prevailing attitude in America is to not understand grudges that go on for centuries.

shhh... Lord Obama said the Declaration of Independence was stained by the original sin of slavery.

re: #98 MandyManners

Surely, you jest.

Dont call me Shirley. :)

re: #98 MandyManners

Surely, you jest.

My names not Shirley . . . :)

re: #102 MrSilverDragon

Beat me to it.

re: #65 Capitalist Tool

Ps I'm a long way from being a Nihilist.
Read it again.

Question then, wouldn't it just be easier for the US if the Palis and the Jews just blew each-other off into adjacent mushroom clouds so your country doesn't even have to be tempted to intervene and mediate between both sides?

Walk the walk please.

Obama Speak:

Now the world will watch and remember what we do here - what we do with this moment. Will we extend our hand to the people in the forgotten corners of this world who yearn for lives marked by dignity and opportunity; by security and justice? Will we lift the child in Bangladesh from poverty, shelter the refugee in Chad, and banish the scourge of AIDS in our time?

Will we stand for the human rights of the dissident in Burma, the blogger in Iran, or the voter in Zimbabwe? Will we give meaning to the words "never again" in Darfur?

Will we acknowledge that there is no more powerful example than the one each of our nations projects to the world? Will we reject torture and stand for the rule of law? Will we welcome immigrants from different lands, and shun discrimination against those who don't look like us or worship like we do, and keep the promise of equality and opportunity for all of our people?

People of Berlin - people of the world - this is our moment. This is our time.

Not Obama Speak:

The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here, but it can never forget what they did here. It is for us the living, rather, to be dedicated here to the unfinished work which they who fought here have thus far so nobly advanced. It is rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before us -- that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they gave the last full measure of devotion -- that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain -- that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom -- and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth.

re: #87 Fritz_Katz

... crimes that were committed by the Kosovars against the Serbs.

According to the MSM, there have been no crimes -- the Kosovars have been Acquitted of War Crimes Against Serbs -- by the UN. And if the United Nations' International Criminal Tribunal says people are innocent, then they must be innocent. (do I need a /sarc tag?)

But, if you want to do some digging on an "alternate site", the Emperor's New Clothes is a start. Crime & Terror in the New Kosovo. Interviews & other Articles that Document NATO Sponsorship of Kosovo Terrorists.

Wikiislam has a pretty good history of the conflict in Albania.

Hat tip: Sharmuta.

re: #96 medaura18586

With both sides; to both 'groups'. You assume both propagandized and conflated their side of the story with Pallywood mastery until they made the truth too tangled up with their bullshit for anyone to care to learn what really happened, and who is worth supporting in the conflict. I find it intellectually lazy. Yes, the politics and history of the Balkans are a maze, but if you don't know what you are talking about and don't think it's worth learning, then please respectfully refrain from giving an opinion, instead of nihilistically assuming that because you don't see the differences, then none exist, and both sides are just guilty and/or deserving of scold and indifference.

I can give any damn opinion I please.
You base the claim that I'm a know- nothing on which evidence?
Speak to the ideas and lay off me, lest I form an unflattering opinion of you.
Not that you should give a damn.

re: #97 Occasional Reader

re: #86 Creeping Eruption

Thread derail ala Airplane link to youtube in . . .3. . .2. . .1. . .

My version of the Declaration of Independence would have begun: "Look, let's just say you guys have issues, okay? Get back to us in a couple hundred years when you've worked them out."

Whoops. That was meant as a reply to MandyManners #85.

re: #101 faraway

shhh... Lord Obama said the Declaration of Independence was stained by the original sin of slavery.

You have something there. Trying to introduce the ancient grievance thread into American politics is another reason he should be shunned.

re: #109 Occasional Reader

Whoops. That was meant as a reply to MandyManners #85.

Which is a completely different post... altogether!

re: #109 Occasional Reader

Whoops. That was meant as a reply to MandyManners #85.

Occasional Senility.

re: #109 Occasional Reader

And here I am wracking my brain for the connection between (1) Airplane, (2) loading zones, and (3) (the Declaration of Independence.

Thank you for making the connection for me.

re: #101 faraway

shhh... Lord Obama said the Declaration of Independence was stained by the original sin of slavery.

Well, it was a blight.

re: #2 winston06

it was the Croats and the Bosnian Muslims who ran the concentration camps in that part of the world but the Serbs learned from them. this is really still part of WW2 unfinished bus. Tito was able to keep the lid on it but since Tito is no longer there the old hatreds have come out. the utashi were Croat and the grand mufti of Jerusalem organized Bosnian Muslim camps and SS divisions It was the Serbs, Jews, and Romany who were the victims when the Serbs got the upper hand they returned the favor. Some say that the fascists and Stalinist were all the same look at Tito and you will see difference Tito's partisans were one of the groups that had openly Jewish members unlike the poles and others who would just as likely kill the Jews.

The old hatreds bust out into the open when Yugo socialism fell. But the fascist groups during WW2 are partly to blame for what happened as it was there crimes the stoked this fire. Yes the Serbs committed war crimes but so did the Muslims and Croats no one's hands were clean there were outside jihadistss who came to help the Bosnian Muslims and there evil was just as bad be-headings and the like.

re: #90 lawhawk

Speaking of grudges, I think Charles might have to lift his anti-AP story source ban for this.

The AP is pushing a bogus story about a supposed massacre of Shiite pilgrims. Except it didn't happen. Again.

Can't Charles just quote the Gateway pundit quoting the AP? Can AP sue someone for paraphrasing a quote?

re: #111 Occasional Reader

Mah haid hurtz.

re: #114 MandyManners

Well, it was a blight.

Of course, the 400,000 Americans who died in the 1860s cleansed that sin forevermore.

re: #117 MandyManners

Hey, I speak jive... /

I've often thought that this whole mess was the Croatian Communist Tito's fault. He thought he could stitch together a unified nation of ethnicities who have despised each other for years and engaged in truly horrific slaughter during WWII that dwarfs anything that happened there in the 1990's.

In an ideal world, the US and British would have occupied the Balkans after WWII. Croatia and Bosnia would have been subject to the same De-Nazification and extended Allied occupation that happened in Germany...Ante Pavelic and Haj Amin Al-Husseini would have been tried at Nuremburg and the Royal Family put back on the throne in Serbia with Draza Mihailovic as PM.

If all this had happened no one would have ever heard of Slobodan Milosevic or Radovan Karadzic.

re: #113 Creeping Eruption

And here I am wracking my brain for the connection between (1) Airplane, (2) loading zones, and (3) (the Declaration of Independence.

Thank you for making the connection for me.

Shirley you understand that the Declaration was for the loading and unloading of unalienable rights only, and that there was no loading or unloading of unalienable rights in the Euro zone?

A dutch(subtitled) documentary on the previous case against Slobodan Milosevic: [Link: video.google.nl...]

Highly recommend watching.

re: #85 MandyManners

Our ancestors left the Old World for good reason.

* * *
Spain's good reason for leaving the Olde World was to celebrate their "peace dividend"--after undoing islam's illegal okkupayshun.

Yochanan's got a bead on it, but I'll add one thing. In the US we argue over school taxes and the bond for a new firetruck as a means of mobilizing the electorate. The "new" leaders of the dissolved Yugoslavia went own the "kill those assholes and take their stuff" route.

re: #4 Killgore Trout

the right-wing Serbian Radical Party

Nice name.

At least they don't try to hide behind some innocuous name like, I don't know, the Council on American-Islamic Relations. And if "Serbian Radical Party" is watered down to show their softer side then I suggest people buckle up for the rally.

re: #107 MandyManners

Wikiislam has a pretty good history of the conflict in Albania.

Hat tip: Sharmuta.

Puts the lie to "there is no compulsion in Islam".

re: #80 Son of the Black Dog

In the Balkans there are no "good guys". Croats and Kosavars are equally as capable of ethnic cleansing as the Serbs are. The Kosavars are actively clearing the Serb populated areas of Kosovo using much the same tactics as the Serbs used against their Muslim (and Croat) minority populations. The international media has picked their side and reported only what suits their agenda (not that that would happen with the American media). The current agenda is that the Serbs are the bad guys. In WWII it was the Croats who could out-Nazi the Nazis. They and the Balkan Muslims happily slaughtered Serbs, who were allied with us and kept a whole German army tied up in the Balkans. Not that we should cut the Serbs any slack on their recent atrocities. However, we need to keep the whole Balkans business in perspective, and not try to make any of the three sides into choir boys. A plague on all three houses.

You are full of shit. Any group or any individual on Earth is just as potentially "capable" of brutality. Human nature's capacity of gore is not the issue here. Who actually committed what is what matters.

Are you familiar with the tactics Serbs employed to ethnically cleanse Kosovo of over half its Albanian population? They sent in the army, the police, and the Chetniks/paramilitias/butchers to set houses on fire, rape women, shoot whomever they found, and force people into trains headed to Macedonia at gunpoint.

Since 1999 KFOR has been on the ground in Kosovo. There have been acts of vandalism, yes, and even a brief eruption of violence in 2004, but Serbs are not being 'ethnically cleansed', much less driven away by any methods any remotely reminiscent of what Serbs used.

Kosovo's first elected head of state was Ibrahim Rugova, a pacifist. Only about 65K Serbs have left Kosovo, and most of them were recent colonizers whom Solobo had transferred over from Serbia to run the government in the 80s and 90s (you know that no Albanans were allowed to be civil servants in the local government of Kosovo, a province of a communist country where government jobs were the biggest sector?)

Get a clue before you open your mouth to spout off such nonsense!

re: #115 yochanan

The Haj.

re: #121 Occasional Reader

Shirley you understand that the Declaration was for the loading and unloading of unalienable rights only, and that there was no loading or unloading of unalienable rights in the Euro zone?

Good grief, what's next? A riff on unitary monetary policy?

re: #94 Iron Fist

,

Sounds like they've got their plague. Maybe it'd be best if we just left them to their own devices, though. Funny how you don't hear Barrack Hussein Obama whining about how long American troops have been stationed in the Balkans, ain't it?

* * *
The Balkans were a Clinton war. Supposed to be only one year long! Tell that to our troops stuck there.

I have no qualms about supporting Kosovo......

How Kosovo Created its Own Liberal Islam

They are moderate, peaceful and pro-American. I have about as much sympathy for the Serbs as I do the Palestinians.

re: #119 lawhawk

Hey, I speak jive... /

OK boys, let's take some pictures.

Drudge: Robert Novak has brain tumor

Gonna' post some more about the Haj in the next thread for those who are reading who might not know the history and legacy of that bastard.

re: #121 Occasional Reader

Shirley you understand that the Declaration was for the loading and unloading of unalienable rights only, and that there was no loading or unloading of unalienable rights in the Euro zone?

Nice comeback.

re: #121 Occasional Reader

Shirley you understand that the Declaration was for the loading and unloading of unalienable rights only, and that there was no loading or unloading of unalienable rights in the Euro zone?

*head explodes*

re: #134 MandyManners

Gonna' post some more about the Haj in the next thread for those who are reading who might not know the history and legacy of that bastard.

Anyone who has been on LGF for more than 3 months who doesn't know who Haj Amin Al-Husseini is hasn't been paying attention.

re: #38 Capitalist Tool

At which point does the rest of the world "not" need to fend for themselves?
We did such a marvelous job saving the Vietnamese from the Commies.

Our failure was not in how we fought the commies in Vietnam, but in failing to defeat the commies in the US.

Soviet 5th column forces defeated us on our own soil, and they are hard at work right now trying to make history repeat itself. The Soviet Union is dead, but like a torpedo launched from a sunk sub, their 5th column forces are alive and well and still working hard to destroy our country.

Your "anti-war" activists are nothing of the sort. They're not anti-war, they're simply rooting for the other side. All of their lies and deception and spin doctoring have one purpose, the decay and destruction of our great republic.

The world is our responsibility because like it or not we live in it. What happens in other places affects us and affects those few nations that are still true allies. But as important as events and developments overseas are, they pale in comparison to the war being waged against us right here at home by our neighbors, coworkers, and sometimes even friends and family.

I have met the enemy, and it is us. No power on earth can destroy us from without, which is why we are being destroyed from within. This is the most pressing concern and dire threat to our future, not inbred camel jockeys flying airplanes into skyscrapers, blowing up subway trains, or mailing anthrax to the National Inquirer.

Unless the threat from the left is met and defeated, the future of this country will be one of weakness, poverty, nihilism, and death. Just as Rome rotted from within long before the barbarians hordes kicked the door down, so shall we see our nation fall into ruin before conquered by a foreign power, a process that the observant will note is already well underway.

The man accused of a mass church shooting this morning was described by his Powell neighbors as a helpful and kind man, but one who had issues with Christianity.

hmmm... I would say something here but I may get deleted.

re: #129 Peacekeeper

Good grief, what's next? A riff on unitary monetary policy?

You know what you can invest a single currency in, don't you?

Municipal bonds, Ted. I'm talking double-A rating.

re: #131 Killgore Trout

I have no qualms about supporting Kosovo......

How Kosovo Created its Own Liberal Islam

They are moderate, peaceful and pro-American. I have about as much sympathy for the Serbs as I do the Palestinians.

Great link, Thanks.
Go to Totten's site for great pics.
Koso- cuties in drinkin'/dancin' environments.
need I say more?

They're going to have to sneak Karadzic out of there.

re: #75 Capitalist Tool

I would like to think that the blessings of liberty endowed to US by the Founding Fathers should be enjoyed by all men

You might want to read that document again...

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights,

re: #84 Kenneth

not just under the ottomans but also under the nazi's and croat utashi

re: #141 Capitalist Tool

More Totten on the next thread.

re: #87 Fritz_Katz

... crimes that were committed by the Kosovars against the Serbs.

According to the MSM, there have been no crimes -- the Kosovars have been Acquitted of War Crimes Against Serbs -- by the UN. And if the United Nations' International Criminal Tribunal says people are innocent, then they must be innocent. (do I need a /sarc tag?)

But, if you want to do some digging on an "alternate site", the Emperor's New Clothes is a start. Crime & Terror in the New Kosovo. Interviews & other Articles that Document NATO Sponsorship of Kosovo Terrorists.

According to the MSM, there have been no crimes? Not so,.. just not any crimes against humanity. You need to pack in a certain level of brutality and sheer massive scale to qualify for that. Instances of vandalism in Kosovo committed by Albanians against Serbs or their property/churches are real, and have been documented and reported. You don't need to fish for them in "alternate sites".

The KLA was considered a terrorist organization because it was secessionist in its ambitions,--independence being a very reasonable goal given the atrocities and progressive degeneration of human rights for Albanians in Kosovo in the 90s--but it did not employ terror tactics (mass murders, targeting of civilians, etc) and did not accept Wahabi support. After the war, it was immediately dismantled, and not supported by NATO, as your "source" claims. Its former leadership was absorbed by public institutions, and its political block lost the elections.

Read some Michael Totten before you dive into "alternate" sites/universes.

re: #138 leereyno

Well said.
Good job.

I regretted the VN allusion as soon as it was posted, being such a can of worms.

However, my idea of being responsible for the world differs somewhat for your idea of it.

re: #143 CommonCents

You might want to read that document again...

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights,

So, man was created with rights and evolutionary capabilities?

re: #143 CommonCents

You might want to read that document again...

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights,

Oh, yes. Well said.
My mistake entirely. I'll learn to type slower and think faster, someday, I pray.

Guess I'm just too old, too tired, and too burnt out to care!

re: #148 faraway

So, man was created with rights and evolutionary capabilities?

Here we go again.

Help! I know where Serbia, Croatia, Kosovo, etc...are. Who are the Muslims, Christians, and was the mass muderer a Serb, Croat, Kosavar, what was he? And who are these "nationalists' that want to riot?

re: #148 faraway

So, man was created with rights and evolutionary capabilities?

I believe that he will answer your Q. with a yes.

re: #21 Iron Fist

I have a real problem with the very existance of the so-called International Criminal Court. There are good reasons that the United States isn't a participant in that farce.

It seems like a natural extention of the UN.

re: #120 Colonel Panik

if frogs had wings they would not bump there butts.

slovnia was the only one of the yugoslav republics that got away with almost clean hands, when croata broke from yugoslava they commited war crimes to get the serbs to leave. no one had clean hands in this one but it seems that the crimes of the croats and muslims are being swept under the rug.

re: #108 Capitalist Tool

I can give any damn opinion I please.
You base the claim that I'm a know- nothing on which evidence?
Speak to the ideas and lay off me, lest I form an unflattering opinion of you.
Not that you should give a damn.

I don't give a damn. Express your opinions away! I didn't mean to jump on your back, but I am offended at the "oh both sides just used Pallywood propaganda tactics, they are both as bad, these people just hate themselves and each-other, why should we give a damn".

re: #152 pingjockey

Help! I know where Serbia, Croatia, Kosovo, etc...are. Who are the Muslims, Christians, and was the mass muderer a Serb, Croat, Kosavar, what was he? And who are these "nationalists' that want to riot?

This particular mass murderer is a Serb, and a Christian (okay, not a good Christian, etc., I've just referrring to his religious designation... Orthodox, specifically). The riot-threateners are the same.

As others have pointed out, in the Balkans furball there was plenty of atrocity-blame to go around.

re: #156 medaura18586

Well, I sure don't give one..

I'll wait til we are at war with/against one of them!

re: #80 Son of the Black Dog

re: #80 Son of the Black Dog

In the Balkans there are no "good guys". Croats and Kosavars are equally as capable of ethnic cleansing as the Serbs are. The Kosavars are actively clearing the Serb populated areas of Kosovo using much the same tactics as the Serbs used against their Muslim (and Croat) minority populations. The international media has picked their side and reported only what suits their agenda (not that that would happen with the American media). The current agenda is that the Serbs are the bad guys. In WWII it was the Croats who could out-Nazi the Nazis. They and the Balkan Muslims happily slaughtered Serbs, who were allied with us and kept a whole German army tied up in the Balkans. Not that we should cut the Serbs any slack on their recent atrocities. However, we need to keep the whole Balkans business in perspective, and not try to make any of the three sides into choir boys. A plague on all three houses.

Very true.

The claim that the Albanians in Kosovo ("Kosovars" is a made-up ethnicity on par with "Palestinians" - they're Albanian and proud of it) are pro-American is a bit of a stretch: my ex-girlfriend's brother was stationed in Southeast Kosovo near the Macedonian border on 9/11/2001 and the Albanian townsfolk there were celebrating and chanting "Osama! Osama!". He and the rest of his Army unit were quite stunned and came away convinced we'd picked the wrong side in the Balkan civil war.

Of course, there was no "right side" either.

The creation of the artificial nation of Yugoslavia was a disaster from the beginning.

re: #152 pingjockey

Help! I know where Serbia, Croatia, Kosovo, etc...are. Who are the Muslims, Christians, and was the mass muderer a Serb, Croat, Kosavar, what was he? And who are these "nationalists' that want to riot?

Serbia is bordered by Kosovo/Albania, Croatia, Slovenia, Bosnia, and the former Yugoslav republic of Macedonia.

Serbs are nearly 100% Christian Orthodox, just as the Croats are Catholics. Slovenians are a mix of both. Bosniacs are Muslims, and Kosovars are a mix of Mulsim (the majority) and Catholics (a small but well respected minortity). Albanians in Albania proper are known to be 70% Muslim, 20% Christian Orthodox, and 10% Catholic, according to the census before ww2. After 5 decades under communism, they are all mostly atheistic, but there has been a resurgence of Christiandom in Albania over the last 15 years.

The butcher in question is Serbian, of course.

re: #157 Occasional Reader
Thanks. I knew that basically the whole damn mess was people getting even with each other for long ago grudges. Tito may have been a bloodthirsty bastard and I don't like commies of any stripe but the folks weren't into whole sale slaughter while he was in charge. My one thing is, apart from the humanity aspect of this, should we care if these medieval morons want to kill each other off?

re: #156 medaura18586

I don't give a damn. Express your opinions away! I didn't mean to jump on your back, but I am offended at the "oh both sides just used Pallywood propaganda tactics, they are both as bad, these people just hate themselves and each-other, why should we give a damn".

My argument is that they reap what they sow. Nothing more, nothing less.

re: #150 Dizzy26

Guess I'm just too old, too tired, and too burnt out to care!

That's a perfectly valid reason not to care, and kudos to you for your honesty. The only thing I don't like is when people rationalize their boredom/tiredom/genuine-lack-of-interest with moral equivalence.

re: #160 medaura18586
Thank you too.

re: #148 faraway

So, man was created with rights and evolutionary capabilities?

I'm not trying to get philosophical with anyone, I was just pointing out that in the D-of-I the "Founding Fathers" didn't endow rights upon anyone.

To your question though, I'd have to say yes. Or instead of evolutionary capabilities, one might just call them adaptive traits.

re: #163 medaura18586

thanks for 'getting' it

I was RA..1959 - 1962 seen and heard it all a dozen times..too frazzled to give a hoot,
I guess:^)

re: #162 Capitalist Tool

Got ya, but the question is who has sewn what? Being from Albania, I have had to grow up learning about the intricacies of this conflict because it was a matter of existential survivor, but trying to abstract from my current position and look at it from the point of view of an average American, I can understand that the whole issue is so mind-boggling and strategically mundane, it's probably not worth people's time to get down to its details. I wish I had had the privilege to be born in a position in which I didn't have to learn about all this.

There are no great guys in that conflict, as there seldom are. There are, definitely though, some bad guys.

re: #159 Spiny Norman

Kosovar is not an ethnicity, neither real or imaginary: it is merely a way to distinguish ethnic Albanians living in Kosovo versus those living in Albania proper. Better look for another far-fetched "parallel" with the Palestinians.

my ex-girlfriend's brother was stationed in Southeast Kosovo near the Macedonian border on 9/11/2001 and the Albanian townsfolk there were celebrating and chanting "Osama! Osama!"

That's very interesting. These Albanian townsfolk must have amazing clairvoyant abilities, because it was not known on September 11th 2001 that Osama Bin Laden was behind the World Trade Center attacks. You sure you got your story straight?

re: #168 medaura18586

it was not known on September 11th 2001 that Osama Bin Laden was behind the World Trade Center attacks.

Lets see.... my best guess would have been, ummm... who else?

It'll be interesting to see how the "world court" deals with it if they fail to extradite this guy... What does the world court do next? Ask a member state to send the police/military into another sovereign state after him? Or does it denigrate to total farce?

re: #121 Occasional Reader

I think you're the greatest, but my dad says you don't work hard enough on defense.

re: #168 medaura18586

Kosovar is not an ethnicity, neither real or imaginary: it is merely a way to distinguish ethnic Albanians living in Kosovo versus those living in Albania proper. Better look for another far-fetched "parallel" with the Palestinians.

That's very interesting. These Albanian townsfolk must have amazing clairvoyant abilities, because it was not known on September 11th 2001 that Osama Bin Laden was behind the World Trade Center attacks. You sure you got your story straight?

The Palestinians sure as hell knew who was. Everyone in the Muslim world knew who was behind it.

Don't be so obtuse.

re: #155 yochanan

if frogs had wings they would not bump there butts.

slovnia was the only one of the yugoslav republics that got away with almost clean hands, when croata broke from yugoslava they commited war crimes to get the serbs to leave. no one had clean hands in this one but it seems that the crimes of the croats and muslims are being swept under the rug.

Slovenia had its 10-day war. The only reason they "almost" got away from the forced polygamous marriage to Serbia, its abusive husband, was that Slovenia was not as strategically important to prompt Slobo to really send in the big guns on the ground to make them stay.

Croatia has its Adriatic coast, very important from a strategic standpoint, and also has a Serbian minority in its population. Yes, the Croats were pretty vicious against not only the Serbs, but also Bosniacs (look at the before and after ethnic maps of Bosnia-Herzegovina to see what I am talking about; all the land grabbing) but Croatia's actions were a reaction to Serbia's advances.

Muslims got screwed in both Bosnia and Kosovo, and believe it or not, they have the cleanest hands but the bloodiest knived backs out of the entire conflict. Kosovars for once, never were in a position of power to bully Serbs around anyway. Their only form of armed resistance was through the KLA, which targeted the paramilitias and the army when they had been sent in to just raze the place off to the ground.

Now he's trying to romanticize the KLA.

Good grief.

re: #172 Spiny Norman

The Palestinians sure as hell knew who was. Everyone in the Muslim world knew who was behind it.

Don't be so obtuse.

Albania/Kosovo is not the Muslim world, and no, nobody in the "Muslim world" knew which one of the many terrorist organizations operating in the world was responsible for the attacks until Al Qaeda claimed responsibility.

Don't be so ridiculous! If everyone of the 1.5 billion Muslims knew in advance, there is no way the US government didn't. Are you about to explode with troofer conspiracies?

If you want to correct that bullshit story you gave, you might still be in time.

re: #169 faraway

Lets see.... my best guess would have been, ummm... who else?

Sure,.. you must be a king of hindsight. No one even knew who the fuck Osama Bin Laden was in Albania/Kosovo until 9/11. I certainly didn't, and I was born and raised in that nook of the "Muslim World", and I'm pretty worldly by Albanian standards.

" Let's not bicker and argue over who killed who.."

/Monty Python & The Holy Grail

re: #167 medaura18586

Being from Albania.

Posting this at the start of the thread might save people a whole lot of bother.

re: #177 Victrola

" Let's not bicker and argue over who killed who.."

/Monty Python & The Holy Grail

"No singing!"

re: #174 Spiny Norman

Now he's trying to romanticize the KLA.

Good grief.

It's a she. And I guess, so is Michael Totten (not in being a she, but in "romanticizing" the KLA):

[Link: www.michaeltotten.com...]

[Link: www.michaeltotten.com...]

re: #175 medaura18586

Did I once say they knew ahead of time? No, I didn't. Once it happened, they all knew it had to be Osama. That Western Intelligence agencies, politicians and media pundits were still debating was irrelevent.

I related a story that was told to me by someone who witnessed it first hand. If it upsets you, or you refuse to believe it, that's your problem.

I suppose you'll also deny the Palestinians were dancing in the streets of Ramallah...

re: #178 Son of the Black Dog

Posting this at the start of the thread might save people a whole lot of bother.

It's stapled right on my website, if you bothered to check. I am not into popagandizing, and I don't need to invent a neutral internet personna with no 'conflict of ethnic interest' in order to speak the truth.

Many Jews post in Israeli/Palestinian threads. I don't hear you or anyone else discrediting them for it.

Your anti-Albanian bigotry stinks.

re: #163 medaura18586

Hi Medaura! Haven't seen you around here in a long while. How have you been?

I don't know much about the whole Balkan conflict; I just remember reading about the mass rapes of Muslim women and children and the barbarity of the Serbs. Croatians are Nazis -- they'll never be my ally.

re: #181 Spiny Norman

Did I once say they knew ahead of time? No, I didn't. Once it happened, they all knew it had to be Osama. That Western Intelligence agencies, politicians and media pundits were still debating was irrelevent.

I related a story that was told to me by someone who witnessed it first hand. If it upsets you, or you refuse to believe it, that's your problem.

I suppose you'll also deny the Palestinians were dancing in the streets of Ramallah...

All true anecdotal evidence.
I also remember a microphone shoved in the face of some Palestinian man at one of those "celebrations" who asked the reporter "How many people are in those (still standing/burning) buildings" and when told over 20,000, got a most pained look on his face and replied "God be with them", or some such.

It gets down to an individual and case- by case basis.
Each man must guard his own thoughts.

re: #181 Spiny Norman

I don't deny well-documented facts, but I excuse me if I doubt a second-hand story which makes no sense, supposedly from the ex-boyfriend of the sister of Spint Norman, an anonymous internet poster with clear animosity toward Albanians.

I call your story bullshit. If your sister's ex boyfriend took any footage, I will gracefully eat my words.

re: #182 medaura18586

Your anti-Albanian bigotry stinks.

As someone who refers to the destruction of 700-year old churches and monasteries, and the murder of priests and nuns, as "vandalism", you need to check the mote in your own eye, madam.

re: #121 Occasional Reader

I just want to let you know we're all counting on you...

re: #183 American Jewess In Jerusalem

Hi! I remember you too. I've been good, just busy with school. I always seem to miss Serbia/Kosovo threads, but not this one!

Croats did have some fucked up Nazi sympathies, but in the Balkans', one another's enemy is not necessarily thy friend. A quote by Rebecca West who wrote extensively on the Balkans:

"each people [of the Balkan] was perpetually making charges of inhumanity against all its neighbours. The Serb, for example, raised his bitterest complaint against the Turk, but was also ready to accuse the Greeks, the Bulgarians, the Vlachs, and the Albanians of every crime under the sun. English persons, therefore, of humanitarian and reformist disposition constantly went out to the Balkan Peninsula to see who was in fact ill-treating whom, and, being by the very nature of their perfectionist faith unable to accept that everybody was ill-treating everybody else, all came back with a pet Balkan people established in their hearts as suffering and innocent, eternally the massacree and never the massacrer"

Croats embraced the Nazis, but so did the Serbs, although Serbs and Croats hated each other's guts: Belgrade was the first officially Jewish free city in Europe, but you don't hear much about it today since they have rewritten their own history quite successfully. You can watch this 20 minute documentary if you care to learn more about Serbia's relations with Nazis and Jews during WW2:

The way people turn on each other seems so totally unreal. I have to get over to Michael Totten's website and read part 2 of his Kosovo trip report. But from part 1, it just looks like the kind of conflict that happened couldn't happen. And then it does. I remember in '99 we had a Kosovar family (maybe more, but I knew the one) who came and stayed in our city and had their (Muslim) kids in our kids' (Jewish) summer day camp. They were quite friendly people and fit right in... they had stories of people shot in the streets, getting out, etc. Unbelievable. I felt the same way re the tutsis and hutus. And I agree with someone way up above who said Karadzic was in some variation of witness protection.

re: #189 Sunlight

The way people turn on each other seems so totally unreal. I have to get over to Michael Totten's website and read part 2 of his Kosovo trip report. But from part 1, it just looks like the kind of conflict that happened couldn't happen. And then it does. I remember in '99 we had a Kosovar family (maybe more, but I knew the one) who came and stayed in our city and had their (Muslim) kids in our kids' (Jewish) summer day camp. They were quite friendly people and fit right in... they had stories of people shot in the streets, getting out, etc. Unbelievable. I felt the same way re the tutsis and hutus. And I agree with someone way up above who said Karadzic was in some variation of witness protection.

Very likely.
This is from an article in the TIMES (London):

"After elections in May, Boris Tadic, the president, was able to form a new pro-western government with its sights set on membership of the European Union.

Key to that prospect was the EU’s insistence that war criminals would have to be apprehended.

It can be no coincidence also that Karadzic’s arrest came the day after an ally of Tadic’s was installed as head of the state security service. "

[Link: www.timesonline.co.uk...]

re: #186 Spiny Norman

As someone who refers to the destruction of 700-year old churches and monasteries, and the murder of priests and nuns, as "vandalism", you need to check the mote in your own eye, madam.

Are you hallucinating, or just putting words in my mouth? Where did I call murder vandalism? What is the destruction of religious edifices but vandalism?

Or do you want to make it a crime against humanity now, on par with the indiscriminate mass murdering of civilians and the establishment of rape camps, so that it is equally prosecuted by the war crimes tribunal?

By the way, exactly which churches? Most are genuine heritage sites, but I know of at least one person having participated in the building efforts of a "500 year old church" in Kosovo. He was an Albanian put in quasi forced labor camps to build heritage sites for Serbs so they can tout their roots to the region.

re: #190 yma o hyd

he was "hiding" in Belgrade (the most conspicuous spot) as a practicing doctor. Give me a break! Of course he was being protected by the government. How else does one get away with faking to be a physician, don't they license their medical staff in Serbia?

That's the kind of governments Serbs have been electing since Milosevic... Karadiz is a "war hero" in Serbia.

re: #192 medaura18586

Not denying this for a moment - just interesting that his arrest should happen after an election which saw apparently many of those in the security forces who protected him being replaced ...

re: #76 Occasional Reader

Look PK, don't start up with your "white zone" shit again. There's just no stopping in a white zone.

You just want PK to have the abortion.

Why do I think that maybe 2-300 years from now Karadzic will be a National Hero of Serbia as Vlad Tepes is for Romania?

-S-

Ok for the record Milosovic & Karadzic are both definitely ass%&les of the nth degree and justice must be served upon K post haste.

However, over the weekend I heard report after report on the MSM and more specifically CNN (numerous times) that they hoped that the trial of K would not last as long as the trial of M and that the Euros didn't want the trial to turn in a circus like when M was put up in the docket. CNN concurred and smirkly said they hope it's finished asap too and not linger and that they were disgusted that M make a mockery of the "Court". (Excuse me while I throwup).

My point of contention is that I never heard anyone in the MSM and especially CNN bitch about how Saddam, Moussaoui, the Blind Shiek and a multiple of other mass murderers, tryants and terrorists turned their trials into circuses that lasted years. Would anyone like to venture a guess as to why this is so? It's pretty obvious to me.

re: #29 Peacekeeper

Serb politics.
You find 1,000 layabouts and promise them a day's pay and free meals if they get on a bus and got to a rally. Once you get them on the bus ( and timing is everything here) you give them enough beer to make them riot ( not enough to pass out, and not too soon or they rip up the bus).

You must have misread this from somewhere. You're thinking about the 200,000 yuppie squareheads they got shipped in luxury coaches but with the right timing just enough perrier water to get them going at Oabama's Rally so that afterwards they are able to terrorise the locals with arm-waving singalongs of making the world a better place.

re: #198 cagney

200,000 yuppie squareheads

Aye, but you can take the lad out of Glesga.....................

Hehe. Alright Cag?......... How's it with you in Jockland?

[Link: www.amazon.com...]

the jihadist are very active in the balkins bosnia, macadonia, albania et al.

re: #197 autoexec

He doesn't hold a candle to Milosevic though. Now, that's the biggest truest hero of them all!

Apologists for mass murderers are not welcome at LGF.

re: #36 Kragar (proud to be kafir)

I believe the general consensus was that it was wrong.

However, according to Michael J. Totten, it couldn't have worked out better for the US and Israel, or worse for the Wahhabis.

re: #38 Capitalist Tool

At which point does the rest of the world "not" need to fend for themselves?
We did such a marvelous job saving the Vietnamese from the Commies.

Had we not allowed the Democrat-controlled Congress to break the administration's promises and cut off all arms and funds for the South Vietnamese government, that very well could have turned out differently.

The lesson? Don't cut and run on those who have trusted you with their lives, freedoms, families and futures, after you've kicked ass on your common enemies (as we did during the Tet Offensive).

It wasn't the decimated-by-Tet Viet Cong that toppled the South Vietnamese government from Within, but North Vietnamese Army regulars coming across the border.

I hope we've learned that lesson now, and apply it in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Slobodan Milosevic Misonofabitch may have cheated justice on Earth, but he sure won't be able to evade his Maker. And neither will Radovan Karadzic.

Well, Milosevic is dead, and Karadzic is captured. I'm just looking forward to completing the hat trick with Ratko Mladic.

re: #199 Wishbone

Couldn't resist that crack after other such similar embarrassments like Live8, Nelson Mandela Birthday party and so on. It's cruel of me to say but it is such a joy to see those soft lads and lassies making fools of themselves.

Apologies for not replying sooner, I only pop in now and again to LGF.

As to what's happening in Jockland, as I live in that area outside Glasgow which is deemed one of those 'most safe Labour seats', I've just received a letter from my local Labour MP asking if I want to attend one of his surgeries. It's the first time I've received such invitation and I could be a bit cynical in questioning the timing of it after such a heavy defeat of a similar 'most safe Labour seat'.

It's a shame that it looks like a lot of folk up here are turning to Achmed Salmond and his Salafist National Party. It's going to be interesting to how sitting down and praying to Allah is going to sit with the legions of pork pie eating, cheap wine drinking heidcases that we know and 'love'.

re: #207 cagney

Hehe.... Nothing cruel about that Cag.......... It's always a good laugh watching idiots do what they do best: Qualifying the amused contempt in which we hold them.

Actually, what made me really laugh was the 'squareheads' crack. It reminded me that even in this day and age of daft PC, amid the whining of all it's even dafter proponents, they still can't figure out a way of stopping us from referring to Germans in terms other than insulting. If they scream prejudice, we always agree and tell them that's what happens to a bunch of nazi fuckers who go to war with us.

Funny thing about the heidcases. I wonder myself what'll happen when that lot are stirred from their drunken slumber by a bunch of uppity Muslims telling them they can't do this or that, and that their birds are immoral slags.

I'd be gettin' out of the way of that discussion, mate.

I would, however, be the most avid spectator.

re: #208 Wishbone

Didn't think about that Squareheads. It's been mentioned a few times in various site and it's a word I've not heard getting used for years. Couldn't resist using it.

Funny you mention about the Glesca birds. About a year ago, I was in the pub with the mate standing besides these two birds at the bar, schemes (estates) bird, hard as nails, in popped a Muslim, obviously the boyfriend trying to pull her out. She went with him but came back up a few moments later like a raging bull, you couldn't believe the expletives.If these daft Muslims think they are going to try and lay down Mo's law to the Glesca birds, they're in for a shock.

re: #115 yochanan

it was the Croats and the Bosnian Muslims who ran the concentration camps in that part of the world but the Serbs learned from them. this is really still part of WW2 unfinished bus. Tito was able to keep the lid on it but since Tito is no longer there the old hatreds have come out. the utashi were Croat and the grand mufti of Jerusalem organized Bosnian Muslim camps and SS divisions It was the Serbs, Jews, and Romany who were the victims when the Serbs got the upper hand they returned the favor. Some say that the fascists and Stalinist were all the same look at Tito and you will see difference Tito's partisans were one of the groups that had openly Jewish members unlike the poles and others who would just as likely kill the Jews.

The old hatreds bust out into the open when Yugo socialism fell. But the fascist groups during WW2 are partly to blame for what happened as it was there crimes the stoked this fire. Yes the Serbs committed war crimes but so did the Muslims and Croats no one's hands were clean there were outside jihadistss who came to help the Bosnian Muslims and there evil was just as bad be-headings and the like.

I agree