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Salon in Full-On Smear Mode

Tue, Sep 9, 2008 at 9:34:31 am PDT

The irrelevant online magazine Salon is leading the charge to smear Sarah Palin, with two absolutely disgusting articles today, one by Islamic apologist Juan Cole comparing Palin to “Muslim fundamentalists:” What’s the difference between Palin and Muslim fundamentalists? Lipstick.

Interesting that Cole seems to think this is a negative comparison, when his entire career is based on making excuses for Islamist fanatics.

And another from leftist hack Gary Kamiya, dripping with repellent misogyny: The dominatrix. You would never see such an article about a male candidate.

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603 comments

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1 pegcity  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 9:36:44am

we need another 10 points in the polls keep it up Dummies

2 zombie  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 9:36:59am

They're desperate to be relevant again. Sad to watch.

3 FrogMarch  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 9:37:27am

The vile modern neo-fascist left.

4 maddogg  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 9:37:32am

It's all cool. The more shit they sling, the more sticks to their hands.

5 phoenixgirl  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 9:37:57am

wow

6 Ojoe  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 9:38:39am

Dominate me

I can take it

Signed, the American voter

7 big steve  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 9:39:01am

Did you notice on the second article that the comments were very negative towards the author.

8 P. Aaron  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 9:39:11am

What the difference between Palin and the left?

Substance.

9 big steve  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 9:39:32am

re: #8 P. Aaron

What the difference between Palin and the left?

Substance.


and accountability

10 pegcity  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 9:39:40am

please tell us again Juan how iran means we love you america when they call for its death.

Idiot facist lover.

11 The Other Les  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 9:39:41am

This is the sort of shit that may cause some people to question the validity of the First Amendment.

Outside of the Left that is...

12 J.D.  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 9:39:52am

The smell of fear...

13 Muadib  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 9:40:15am

What's the difference between Juan Cole and an idiot?

Nothing.

14 Ben Hur  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 9:40:25am
What’s the difference between Palin and Muslim fundamentalists? Lipstick.

Actually, when a Muslim women living under a Muslim theocracy shows her face or even wears lipstick, she's killed.

So, whatever dude.

15 midwestgak  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 9:40:36am

re: #9 big steve

and accountability

and credibility

16 lawhawk  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 9:40:47am

This is what the left is reduced to. They don't have policy. They don't have substance.

They have a surplus of venom and hatred, and it shows every time they pen this kind of "work".

17 pegcity  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 9:40:59am

re: #13 Muadib

an idiot for the most part dosen't have 5 degrees, it took Juan how many man hours of studying to become this dumb?

18 victor_yugo  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 9:41:12am

.... must .... control .... rage ....

19 jwb7605  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 9:41:40am

Charles' link didn't work for me.
This one does.

20 victor_yugo  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 9:41:46am

re: #17 pegcity

an idiot for the most part dosen't have 5 degrees, it took Juan how many man hours of studying to become this dumb?

Many hours, but what man?

21 Nevergiveup  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 9:41:49am

Keep it up. I guess the morons haven't noticed the more they attack her, the more support Sarah gets.

22 Ringo the Gringo  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 9:41:53am

It's called panic mode.

23 big steve  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 9:42:07am

re: #18 victor_yugo

why?

24 J.D.  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 9:42:12am

I read somewhere yesterday that Iran was going to stop "allowing" women to work. Let's model ourselves after Iran, what say?

25 pegcity  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 9:42:15am

damn palin and her stupid glasses, what a facist, and you know who else had brown hair, HITLER

/moonbat rant mode off

26 MandyManners  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 9:42:20am

I tried to read both articles but, this vein in my head started throbbing.

27 Padre  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 9:42:33am

Where do all these references to pornography come from? I mean, the articles talking about domination, librarian glasses, even from articles written by women?

Laura Ingraham is right; pornofication. It has taken over what now qualifies as journalism.

28 jcm  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 9:42:51am

Can you smell that smell?

I smell PANIC!

29 Wild Knight  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 9:43:36am

Keep up with these articles, fools. Every one you publish is a nail in Obama's coffin. As this poor moonbat said:

quote
Great, here we go again with Brits sabotaging the cause for those of us in the US who want real change. The Guardian's Operation Clark County stunt in 2004 most likely put Bush back in the White House. Please do those of us here who are working for change a favor and stop interfering. Roger, Chicago, USA
unquote
source: Another Euro Article on Sarah Palin

Ah, I love the sight of moonbat heads exploding in the morning. This election is shaping up to be the funniest I've observed - and all thanks to the MSM.

30 big steve  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 9:43:52am

re: #26 MandyManners

I tried to read both articles but, this vein in my head started throbbing.

why Mandy that Dominatrix article sort of reminded me of my mental picture of you...... so please give me a whack...pretty please!

31 Peacekeeper  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 9:44:11am

They are shit your pants scared of her.

32 vagabond trader  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 9:44:12am

All good librals love the fragrance of their own krap.

33 maddogg  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 9:44:15am

Are the Left on the verge of taking to the streets like the living dead, rending their tie dyes and screaming continuously?

34 Hooray for Captain Spaulding  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 9:44:37am

Sarah Palin is trying to seduce independent voters. But she comes across like a whip-wielding mistress who wants to discipline a naughty America

You know, you have to pay EXTRA for that in Nevada.
/Not that ... uh .. um ... I would know

35 Beach Lover  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 9:44:44am

re: #28 jcm
or liberal flop sweat

36 Wild Knight  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 9:44:44am

um, sorry, the article in the comment #29 is about Brands disgusting show on MTV. My bad.

37 The Pulchritudinous Patriot  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 9:44:46am

Well, damn....we have to vote for him now...

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/09/09/2360 240.htm?section=world


///

38 Ringo the Gringo  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 9:44:47am
Islamic apologist Juan Cole comparing Palin to “Muslim fundamentalists:”

Perhaps that's his way of paying her a compliment?

39 pegcity  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 9:44:48am

re: #33 maddogg

Are the Left on the verge of taking to the streets like the living dead, rending their tie dyes and screaming continuously?

just remember our side has all the guns

40 Pyrocles  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 9:44:52am

And they project this onto the right. Questioning Obama's lifelong Marxist mentoring is engaging in "Rovian smear tactics."

re: #16 lawhawk

This is what the left is reduced to. They don't have policy. They don't have substance.

They have a surplus of venom and hatred, and it shows every time they pen this kind of "work".

41 doppelganglander  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 9:45:42am

If you just assume that everything libs say conservatives are actually reflects their own moral landscape, you're pretty near the truth.

42 vagabond trader  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 9:45:47am

Heh, and I always thought of the Hildabeast as the domineering type. Kind of like Nurse Ratchett.

43 maddogg  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 9:46:03am

re: #39 pegcity

just remember our side has all the guns

Why, yes, yes we do......

44 doppelganglander  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 9:46:38am

re: #37 The Pulchritudinous Patriot

Bad linky.

45 J.D.  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 9:46:40am
46 zombie  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 9:46:43am

According to Salon:

Palin comes across not as a fantasy pinup, but as a dominatrix

Wait -- I thought kinky sex was good?

And I thought Muslim fundamentalists were good too, according to Juan Cole.

Now I just don't know what to think!

47 BGOH  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 9:46:48am

What, no hat tip? I'm crushed!

LOL

48 Ojoe  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 9:47:04am

re: #39 pegcity

"Rifles"

49 big steve  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 9:47:15am

re: #39 pegcity

just remember our side has all the guns that are legal

there fixed that for you...

50 NC State of Mind  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 9:47:35am

Salon: Theocrats confuse God's will with their own mortal policies.

Umm, no, that is what socialists do. Government=God. We can bring about the perfect heaven on earth nirvana if we enact just one more piece of legilation.

51 lawhawk  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 9:47:35am

re: #34 Hooray for Captain Spaulding

Sarah Palin is trying to seduce independent voters. But she comes across like a whip-wielding mistress who wants to discipline a naughty America

You know, you have to pay EXTRA for that in Nevada.
/Not that ... uh .. um ... I would know

Funny, but Obama and his supporters want people to think that he is The One. The One who will bring hope and change. It's salvation against all that is bad in the world, starting with the GOP. Purge the evil...

The left is left with trying to attack Palin for being a strong independent woman, all while (in irony of irony) they use religious metaphors to describe their own guy.

52 J.D.  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 9:47:55am

Ahmadinejad's New Enemy: Women
By Amir Taheri

If you're not registered at the New York Post.

53 pegcity  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 9:48:34am

re: #49 big steve

there fixed that for you...

yeah Obama's old constituents have lots of guns too, not the legal, registered and taxed kind though

54 big steve  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 9:48:52am

re: #52 J.D.

Ahmadinejad's New Enemy: Women
By Amir Taheri

If you're not registered at the New York Post.


no surprise given the shapeless bag he is married to.

55 jwb7605  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 9:48:53am

re: #37 The Pulchritudinous Patriot

Well, damn....we have to vote for him now...

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/ 09/09/2360240.htm?section=world


///

linky no workee
fix spacee, linky workee:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/09/09/2360 240.htm?section=world

56 Ringo the Gringo  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 9:49:38am

I imagine we'll be seeing scenes similar to this in many American cities if Obama fails to win the Presidency.

57 midwestgak  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 9:49:55am

re: #21 Nevergiveup

Keep it up. I guess the morons haven't noticed the more they attack her, the more support Sarah gets.

It's interesting that the Republican party did not need to spend a cent on rallying the base to the McCane/Palin ticket. It rallied instantaneously because the base suddenly recognized it had a winning conservative ticket.

I was at work when the announcement was made (prior to the Ohio deal). I jumped up and pumped my fist in the air with glee and ran to speak to all of my conservative co-workers (well, there's only one). But I could not contain my excitement. I'll remember that moment for a long time. Hopefully the next 16 years at least.

58 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 9:50:06am
59 MandyManners  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 9:50:47am

re: #30 big steve

why Mandy that Dominatrix article sort of reminded me of my mental picture of you...... so please give me a whack...pretty please!

No.

60 Ojoe  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 9:50:53am

"Sarah Palin is trying to seduce independent voters. But she comes across like a whip-wielding mistress who wants to discipline a naughty America"


ROFLMAOPMP !


That gets her even more votes !

61 Nevergiveup  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 9:51:07am

re: #57 midwestgak

It's interesting that the Republican party did not need to spend a cent on rallying the base to the McCane/Palin ticket. It rallied instantaneously because the base suddenly recognized it had a winning conservative ticket.

I was at work when the announcement was made (prior to the Ohio deal). I jumped up and pumped my fist in the air with glee and ran to speak to all of my conservative co-workers (well, there's only one). But I could not contain my excitement. I'll remember that moment for a long time. Hopefully the next 16 years at least.

Exactly. Well said. And all true.

62 The Pulchritudinous Patriot  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 9:51:08am
63 Ben Hur  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 9:51:46am

re: #29 Wild Knight


I have been a card-carrying feminist for 40 years and this woman has found somewhere in me a little kernel of sexism. She causes me to make a failure of sisterhood. Sorry Charlie but I cannot stand her candy coated philistinism, I hate her crass creationism, I loath her parading of her family about the place, God forgive me I even hate her teenage hair ... I do really fear the fact that she touches something deep in America, something real in America I agree with you about that and that makes me very afraid and the only solution I can see to it is that the principal governors of super powers should be elected by global electorates ... There is a ray of hope. History shows that people who arrive with a stock in trade of being pure, innocent and untouched by civilisation often end up having terrible skeletons in their cupboards. And I am really hopeful that the dreadful hacks will find them out.

British feminist. Elitist.

[Link: www.biased-bbc.blogspot.com...]

64 reno911  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 9:51:55am

What happens, after decades of trying, two sides just can't agree on fundamental issues like:

- Are higher taxes good?

- Are we at war with Islamic radicals?

- Should people be judged on their merits or their skin color?

- Is a larger federal government good or bad?

- Should babies be murdered when it is convenient for the mother?

- Is America a force for good or evil?

- Should we tap our own resources in an effect to become energy independent?

- Should our borders be open or regulated?

There is no middle ground on these issues. One side either prevails or one side loses or there is a stalemate.

I guess the question is "How do you break the stalemate?"

65 westbankmama  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 9:52:03am

Obama's campaign is having trouble with raising funds...

[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

66 The Other Les  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 9:52:04am

I know I'm having fun here but I've got a job interview tomorrow and I have to get a hair cut.

Bye.

67 Dave the.....  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 9:52:08am

Saw the Juan Cole one this morning. What's funny is the Palin is a mainstream American moderate. But the Democrats are so far out there, that they hate the Assembly of God church. They hate her for having 5 children. And the alledged censorship of books is a non-issue. She never called for that. And on and on and on....

68 Bill Dalasio  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 9:52:10am

Is it me, or is the Left starting to sound increasingly creepy on this subject? Not in a "we have no scruples and will do whatever we have to to get what we want" kind of way, but more of a Norman Bates, demented stalker kind of way?

69 doppelganglander  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 9:52:12am

re: #55 jwb7605

Thanks. My philosophy is, any time foreigners express an opinion on what America should do, do the opposite. I can understand the necessity of good diplomatic relations, but why do everyday people agonize over what a bunch of Euros think of us? I guess high school is never really over, it just gets much, much larger.

70 Nevergiveup  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 9:52:31am

"Tiny US town attempts to lure in Jews
Association offers Jewish families up to $50,000 in return for relocation to southern Christian town of 58,000 people in order to attract youths to synagogue, religious school. Though town is considered 'peanut capital of world', none have made the move yet"

[Link: www.ynetnews.com...]

Hum. Maybe I should give them a call? I bet there are less liberals down there.

71 pegcity  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 9:52:35am

re: #57 midwestgak

yeah if there is one group that gets out and votes its an energized Republican base, and wow have the left stirred up the hornets nest.

Morons keep it up, your helping rebuild the republican parties in ways you never imagined.

72 big steve  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 9:52:42am

re: #58 buzzsawmonkey

Confronted with the Palin phenom
The Left offers nothing but venom
Trying to pre-emptively
Evoke theocracy
As they march around in dirty denim.

see...we have intelligence and poetry on our side.....the other side's poem's about Palin start with....."there was a young lady from Nantucket"

73 big steve  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 9:53:13am

re: #59 MandyManners

No.

tease

74 experiencedtraveller  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 9:53:20am

re: #8 P. Aaron

What the difference between Palin and the left?

Substance.

and style.

75 rightwinger3  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 9:53:29am

The left will never get it. Ever.

76 Dave the.....  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 9:53:49am
Keep it up. I guess the morons haven't noticed the more they attack her, the more support Sarah gets.

yup. Keep up the hate, Democrats.

One HUGE thing Sarah Palin has going for her, and this is extremely rare. She can take on an attacker, beat him silly, but do it while smiling and showing the love. If you get angry when you fight back, then you just look like an angry person. No wants to be around someone mad. She does her best work while smiling and using wit.

77 J.D.  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 9:53:54am

re: #65 westbankmama

...The signs of concern have become evident in recent weeks as early fund-raising totals have suggested that Mr. Obama’s decision to bypass public financing may not necessarily afford him the commanding financing advantage over Senator John McCain that many had originally predicted.

Presidential candidates in a general election have typically relied on two main sources of money: public financing, along with additional money their parties raise. In choosing to accept the public money, the McCain campaign now gets an $84 million cash infusion from the United States Treasury. Mr. McCain is barred from raising any more money for his own campaign coffers but can lean on money raised by the Republican National Committee, which has continued to exceed expectations.

Meanwhile, Obama campaign officials had calculated that with its vaunted fund-raising machine, driven by both small contributors over the Internet and a powerful high-dollar donor network, it made more sense to forgo public financing so they could raise and spend unlimited sums.

But the campaign is struggling to meet ambitious fund-raising goals it set for the campaign and the party. It collected in June and July far less from Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton’s donors than originally projected. Moreover, Mr. McCain, unlike Mr. Obama, will have the luxury of concentrating almost entirely on campaigning instead of raising money, as Mr. Obama must do. ...


But...but...but...I thought Obama had all the answers!?!

78 Ojoe  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 9:54:01am

re: #75 rightwinger3

No, they won't

79 Nevergiveup  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 9:54:01am

re: #75 rightwinger3

The left will never get it. Ever.

And that is the best weapon we have!

80 MandyManners  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 9:54:03am

re: #65 westbankmama

Obama's campaign is having trouble with raising funds...

[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

Could you link to the article itself?

81 JammieWearingFool  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 9:54:13am

I guess they're getting ideas from the Kos Kidz. Keep it up, folks.

Rush just played a great drive-by media clip where they dumped Obama to go to coverage of a McCain/Palin event.

heh.

82 so.cal.swede  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 9:54:16am

re: #64 reno911


I guess the question is "How do you break the stalemate?"

You don't. That's the nature of human affairs. from past until eternity.

83 ploome hineni[deleted]  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 9:54:23am
84 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 9:54:35am
85 Outrider  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 9:54:39am
...Palin has a right to her religious beliefs, as do fundamentalist Muslims who agree with her on so many issues of social policy. None of them has a right, however, to impose their beliefs on others by capturing and deploying the executive power of the state...


Nice of him to agree she has the right to an opinion.

I am weary of their policy of stressing a bogus talking point, in this case; Gov Palin will force her beliefs on the country, even though she has stated there is a distinction between her personal and professional views.

I suspect their paranoia comes from the fact that they WILL force their personal beliefs on the country, as they have proven over and again with their social restructuring and class warfare.

86 J.D.  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 9:55:02am

re: #80 MandyManners

Mandy, it takes me right to it.

87 Colin Nelson  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 9:55:05am

Consider the source - Salon,

The title aptly describes the effete, metro, NYTs loving, superior, elitist, mob who believe that anyone who does not think as they do is, dumb, misguided and essentially stupid.

Think when McCain/Palin take over we should rename it Saloon

88 Ojoe  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 9:55:11am

re: #83 ploome hineni
BHO doesn't wear lipstick ...

89 SouthAmericanWay  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 9:55:16am

Reminder of the day:

What have you done today to avoid the election of the most radical presidential candidate in American history?

Have you been volunteering? (If you did not know, you may sign up for volunteer work on the web!) Have you contributed to the McCain Compliance Fund (to pay for the legal costs of battling the "community organizers" who register ineligible voters - and other frauds of the crazy left)? Have you been trying to convince your neighbors, family, friends, colleagues of the imminent danger of an Obama presidency - or of the greater virtue of true reformers in Washington?

90 MandyManners  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 9:55:36am

re: #85 Outrider

Nice of him to agree she has the right to an opinion.

I am weary of their policy of stressing a bogus talking point, in this case; Gov Palin will force her beliefs on the country, even though she has stated there is a distinction between her personal and professional views.

I suspect their paranoia comes from the fact that they WILL force their personal beliefs on the country, as they have proven over and again with their social restructuring and class warfare.

Yep. It's projection.

91 Hooray for Captain Spaulding  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 9:55:57am

re: #56 Ringo the Gringo

I imagine we'll be seeing scenes similar to this in many American cities if Obama fails to win the Presidency.

Unfortunately, I think THIS is more likely.

92 Ben Hur  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 9:56:39am
Republican men, sexual inadequates that they are, really believe that women will vote for a woman just because she's a woman. They're unfamiliar with our true natures. Do they think vaginas call out to each other in the jungle night?

[Link: mypetjawa.mu.nu...]

I thought they DID

93 lawhawk  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 9:56:39am

Well, that settles it.

The world wants Obama.

Memo to world: You don't get to vote for Our President. We do.

94 maddogg  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 9:56:43am

The right has the guns, but the left has the trial lawyers. Sounds like an excellent matchup.

95 Alouette  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 9:56:55am

What's the difference between Gary Kamiya and Mark Morford?

Mauve and periwinkle.

96 Dead Sea Squirrel  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 9:56:56am

Kamiya can't even write:

And large numbers of Americans think she's hot. This latter point cannot be underestimated. Iraq may be a quagmire, a new cold war may be looming, the economy may be tanking and the world may be heading toward environmental doom, but the presidential race may be decided by the perceived doability of the governor of Alaska.

The importance of this article cannot be underestimated.

97 J.D.  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 9:57:40am

re: #92 Ben Hur

Wait, you're saying they don't? Then what am I going to do with this vagina whistle call that I just bought online from Bass Pro Shops?


lol

98 JHW  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 9:57:48am

Any of our Canadian friends here today? I saw this article, from the CBC, via Kate McMillan's blog, Small Dead Animals. The writer of the piece, subsidized by Canadian tax money,goes off the rails, foaming at the mouth unhinged at a Vice-Presidential candidate in a foreign election. It is nearly as nasty as Daily Kos. So much for Women's Liberation if you happen to be a conservative, self-made woman. The hypocrisy of the liberal elites never fails to dig deeper and deeper.
A Mighty Wind Blows Through Republican Convention

You have to read this slimy article to really grasp how deranged some of the media gate-keepers are getting over Gov. Palin's nomination.

99 Hhar  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 9:57:59am

This may actually hurt Palin, depending on the response:


Its currently big on the obamaniac rant sites. Here.

The idea is that Palin hired Charlie Fannon, and therefore agreed with his stance. Seems weak.

100 pegcity  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 9:58:12am

re: #93 lawhawk

we polled all 6 billion people and except for 150 million rednecks in the US everyone else in the world wants Obama.

101 J.D.  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 9:58:19am

re: #93 lawhawk

Well, that settles it.

The world wants Obama.

Memo to world: You don't get to vote for Our President. We do.

They'll have to learn to live with disappointment.
*sigh*

102 MandyManners  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 9:58:26am

re: #86 J.D.

Mandy, it takes me right to it.

It takes me to the log-in page. And, I've misplaced my NYT log-in info.

103 Elcid  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 9:58:27am

Juan Cole:

Moron______

Imbecile_____

Idiot________

Pick one. (actually you can pick ALL three)

104 Pyrocles  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 9:58:30am

Exactly; it's projection. They'd do it if they were in power, therefore they expect their enemies to do the same. It's the only situation they can fathom.

re: #85 Outrider

Nice of him to agree she has the right to an opinion.

I am weary of their policy of stressing a bogus talking point, in this case; Gov Palin will force her beliefs on the country, even though she has stated there is a distinction between her personal and professional views.

I suspect their paranoia comes from the fact that they WILL force their personal beliefs on the country, as they have proven over and again with their social restructuring and class warfare.

105 The Pulchritudinous Patriot  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 9:59:01am

re: #98 JHW

Any of our Canadian friends here today? I saw this article, from the CBC, via Kate McMillan's blog, Small Dead Animals. The writer of the piece, subsidized by Canadian tax money,goes off the rails, foaming at the mouth unhinged at a Vice-Presidential candidate in a foreign election. It is nearly as nasty as Daily Kos. So much for Women's Liberation if you happen to be a conservative, self-made woman. The hypocrisy of the liberal elites never fails to dig deeper and deeper.
A Mighty Wind Blows Through Republican Convention

You have to read this slimy article to really grasp how deranged some of the media gate-keepers are getting over Gov. Palin's nomination.

And they call us racist for opposing BO.

106 Dave the.....  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 9:59:18am

So America haters all over the world want Barry to be our President. Wow, with an endorsement like that, I can't see how he can lose.

107 pegcity  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 9:59:20am

re: #98 JHW

the liberals are going to get destroyed in the election on Oct 14. They are merely trying to take peoples attention away from the fact that if the Harper Gov't gets a majority it will probably be the end of the CBC.

108 scottishbuzzsaw  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 9:59:51am

re: #93 lawhawk

Well, that settles it.

The world wants Obama.

Memo to world: You don't get to vote for Our President. We do.

They'd rather we vote for BHO and join them in their misery...

109 J.D.  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 9:59:51am

re: #102 MandyManners

It takes me to the log-in page. And, I've misplaced my NYT log-in info.

[Link: ompolitics.blogspot.com...]
Try that one, then.

110 Miss Molly  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:00:22am

Sarah is just giving the "left" fits. They just seem not to know what to do and everything they do seems to backfire.

111 J.D.  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:00:51am

re: #110 Miss Molly

Sarah is just giving the "left" fits. They just seem not to know what to do and everything they do seems to backfire.

Fun, isn't it?

112 Outrider  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:00:53am
And another from leftist hack Gary Kamiya, dripping with repellent misogyny: The dominatrix. You would never see such an article about a male candidate.

Where to start with the errors, lies and innuendo in this hit piece?

113 experiencedtraveller  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:00:54am

re: #102 MandyManners

It takes me to the log-in page. And, I've misplaced my NYT log-in info.

Userid: mandy
pass: F*CKYOUNYT

114 jwb7605  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:01:05am

re: #69 doppelganglander

Thanks. My philosophy is, any time foreigners express an opinion on what America should do, do the opposite. I can understand the necessity of good diplomatic relations, but why do everyday people agonize over what a bunch of Euros think of us? I guess high school is never really over, it just gets much, much larger.

Since you gave the link "the extra twenty percent" (get it?), I'll go you one further.

I don't worry about foreign or domestic opinion.
I worry about whether the decisions I make are fundmentally sound.

Decisions that are fundamentally sound are easier to amend/fix/repair than those that aren't.

Which reminds me:
There are two groups of philosophers.
Those who divide philosophers into two groups,
And those who don't.

115 zombie  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:01:08am

Damn, they are STILL harping on that "She tried to ban books" absurdity. They will not let it go, no matter how untrue, minor, irrelveant, trivial and misrepresented, and long ago.

The source for the book-banning smear was Palin's political opponent in Wasilla. So already it's suspect. But even if you grant everything he said as being true, all that happened was:

Some Wasilla residents thought that a couple books in the town library had swear words in them, which they didn't want their kids to read. They asked the new mayor (Palin) if the books could be pulled from the shelves. Palin asked the (left-wing) librarian about how that could be achieved. The librarian refused to cooperate.

Over a decade after the fact, Palin's political opponent spun this as "Palin tried to ban some books" and then "tried to fire the librarian." Then the left sprung into action and produced a fraudulent list of book she supposedly tried to ban, most of which were published AFTER 1996 (when this incident happened).

The whole thing is patently ridiculous. EVERY city has the right to determine which books are purchased and displayed on library shelves for kids to access. Determining which you want is not "censorship" or "banning," it's simply following community standards. And it happens every day of the year, in every state in the country. Librarians, sometimes acting alone, sometimes acting on behest of their bosses or the community, order certain books to be displayed, and fail to order other books; some volumes are pulled and discarded to make room for new material, others left on the shelves. Standard practice.

116 rightwinger3  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:01:12am

re: #93 lawhawk

Well, that settles it.

The world wants Obama.

Memo to world: You don't get to vote for Our President. We do.

My message to the world.

117 westbankmama  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:01:31am

re:#80

I cut and pasted the link to the article itself but it shows up here as a general link to the NYTimes....?

118 Wild Knight  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:01:38am

re: #63 Ben Hur

British feminist. Elitist.

[Link: www.biased-bbc.blogspot.com...]

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

119 J.D.  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:02:01am

re: #117 westbankmama

re:#80

I cut and pasted the link to the article itself but it shows up here as a general link to the NYTimes....?

No...she doesn't have her login info handy.

120 Elcid  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:02:01am

OH. Moron, is not THE city in Argentina. (just thought I'd add that) :)

121 Ben Hur  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:02:19am

Worth another post.

[Link: www.break.com...]

122 midwestgak  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:02:38am

re: #69 doppelganglander

Thanks. My philosophy is, any time foreigners express an opinion on what America should do, do the opposite.

Holds true for democrates too.

123 jwb7605  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:03:03am

re: #96 Dead Sea Squirrel

Kamiya can't even write:

The importance of this article cannot be underestimated.

LMAO!

124 big steve  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:03:44am

re: #106 Dave the.....

So America haters all over the world want Barry to be our President. Wow, with an endorsement like that, I can't see how he can lose.

My Dutch comrades are major Obama lovers....but then they voted in a guy that looks like Harry Potter....Dutch Prime Minister

125 pegcity  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:04:01am

re: #115 zombie

last time i checked liberals run all the libraries and book stores, so they merely don't stock anything Conservative, isn't that worse?

126 JHW  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:04:03am

re: #107 pegcity

I believe you're right, several of the commenters at Kate's blog mentioned this and posited that it was for this reason the writer of the article chose to write about a foreign election , and in an unhinged lunatic manner, rather than the upcoming Canadian elections. I wish you well in Canada, you're fighting the same fight we are.

127 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:04:24am

re: #33 maddogg

Are the Left on the verge of taking to the streets like the living dead, rending their tie dyes and screaming continuously?

Zombie hippies? Sounds like a great movie!

128 galloping granny  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:04:33am

re: #64 reno911

What happens, after decades of trying, two sides just can't agree on fundamental issues like:

- Are higher taxes good?

- Are we at war with Islamic radicals?

- Should people be judged on their merits or their skin color?

- Is a larger federal government good or bad?

- Should babies be murdered when it is convenient for the mother?

- Is America a force for good or evil?

- Should we tap our own resources in an effect to become energy independent?

- Should our borders be open or regulated?

There is no middle ground on these issues. One side either prevails or one side loses or there is a stalemate.

I guess the question is "How do you break the stalemate?"

The last time we had an unbreakable stalemate with no middle ground we had a War Between the States that is still reverberating in our society today.

129 NYC_Mike  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:04:50am

Every smear = another 1000 votes for McCain/Palin

I say - keep it up - leftist kooks, you're doing nothing but giving thousands of average Americans who were on the fence a really good reason to vote McCain/Palin!

130 Tigger2005  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:04:58am
In a conference call with reporters, Democratic Gov. Ed Rendell of Pennsylvania questioned McCain's assertions that Palin has the necessary experience and record.

"I think she has tremendous potential, but she in no way shape or form is ready to be president of the United States," said Rendell, who knows Palin through the National Governors Association. "And that's something we've got to get across to the American people."

Is this dufus even aware Palin's not running for President of the U.S.?

And Obama, with no executive or foreign policy experience to speak of, is?

131 Nevergiveup  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:05:20am

But liberals are so pure:

"He almost wrecked Barack Obama's presidential dreams, and now firebrand pastor Jeremiah Wright has helped destroy a Dallas church worker's marriage - and her job, The Post has learned.

Elizabeth Payne, 37, said she had a steamy sexual affair with the controversial, racially divisive man of the cloth while she was an executive assistant at a church headed by a popular Wright protégé."

[Link: www.nypost.com...]

Gee I miss the good Rev. Wright

132 maddogg  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:05:39am

re: #127 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

Zombie hippies? Sounds like a great movie!

Just remember to shoot them in the ass, you gotta hit the brain!

133 pegcity  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:05:41am

re: #126 JHW

the liberals here want to tax all carbon emissions, and the reaction of all canadians outside of Toronto, REALLY your kidding right?

Yeah its not going to end well for the Librano's

134 big steve  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:05:42am

re: #129 NYC_Mike

Every smear = another 1000 votes for McCain/Palin

I say - keep it up - leftist kooks, you're doing nothing but giving thousands of average Americans who were on the fence a really good reason to vote McCain/Palin!


All the press Palin gets good or bad is all good....the alternative is being ignored like Biden.

135 Padre  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:05:50am

re: #84 taxfreekiller

All this is the result of the abject fear in the commies of the Democratic party. This loss will be it for many of them, over the hill, being pushed out by the Kos Kids Kult of Kanker Kids. The return of a conservative leader is the worst case for them, they just can not believe that it is happening.

Clop, Clop, Clop, the Demon of History, comes for them, he sees them,
he aims his truth at them, they run for cover under lies and fraud, but
on he and his huge horse of truth come, clop, clop, clop,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Fear nothing more, blinding fear, terror of the reality of it.


nice,,,,!

That is a piece of CLASSIC tfk, commas and all.

tfk, you made my day.

136 MandyManners  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:05:51am

re: #109 J.D.

[Link: ompolitics.blogspot.com...]
Try that one, then.

Thanks!

They sound rather desparate.

137 SouthAmericanWay  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:06:11am

Yay! McCain is still ahead today by 5!

And Gallup also has this to say:

While the increased vote share a candidate receives following his convention usually diminishes, candidates who lead after the second convention usually remain the leader a month after the convention. This is based on a review of historical Gallup data since 1964 -- the first year for which Gallup could reliably measure convention bounces. The only possible exception to this general pattern occurred in 1980, when Jimmy Carter had a slim one-point advantage after the Democratic National Convention but he and Ronald Reagan were exactly tied one month after Carter was nominated for a second term.

Thus, if Obama regains the lead over the next month, he will be bucking the historical trend. Admittedly, most of the elections since 1964 were not as competitive as this year's election has been, but even in closely contested election years of 1988 (George H.W. Bush led by just four points after the GOP convention that year), 2000, and 2004 the post-conventions leader usually held that position one month later.

138 MandyManners  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:06:16am

re: #113 experiencedtraveller

Userid: mandy
pass: F*CKYOUNYT

LOL!

139 Ben Hur  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:06:36am

re: #124 big steve

My Dutch comrades are major Obama lovers....but then they voted in a guy that looks like Harry Potter....Dutch Prime Minister

What did you think? That the Europeans will elect a person of color before us?

140 JammieWearingFool  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:06:44am

re: #103 Elcid

Juan Cole:

Moron___X___

Imbecile__X___

Idiot__XXXX______

Pick one. (actually you can pick ALL three)

There you go.

141 J.D.  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:07:15am

re: #136 MandyManners

Isn't it a shame?

142 Ben Hur  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:07:51am

O PASTOR IN SEX SCANDAL

He almost wrecked Barack Obama's presidential dreams, and now firebrand pastor Jeremiah Wright has helped destroy a Dallas church worker's marriage - and her job, The Post has learned.

Elizabeth Payne, 37, said she had a steamy sexual affair with the controversial, racially divisive man of the cloth while she was an executive assistant at a church headed by a popular Wright protégé.

When word of the unholy alliance got out, Payne's husband dumped her, and she was canned from the plum job at Friendship-West Baptist Church, she told The Post.

"I was involved with Rev. Wright, and that's why I lost my job and why my husband divorced me," Payne said.

She refused to reveal when the adulterous affair started or how she met Wright.

But fellow churchgoers at Friendship-West "found out about the affair in the spring," Payne said.

At the time, she was secretary to the Rev. Frederick Haynes III, a longtime Wright disciple.

In April, Payne organized a series of Texas public appearances by Wright, 67. Weeks before, Obama had disavowed his preacher of 20 years after Wright's anti-government rants came to light.

"Liz was by Rev. Wright's side day and night during those days," a church source said.

"It's all true," said Payne, adding that she has filed a wrongful-dismissal claim with the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission to get her job back.

In an ironic twist, Wright last night spoke at an East Orange, NJ, church revival on the subject of "unexpected problems."

"There's no such thing as a problem-free relationship," he told a packed Elmwood United Presbyterian Church. "In life, you'll have unexpected problems."

He punctuated his 45-minute sermon with evocative 1960s hits, including the Supremes' "Where Did Our Love Go," Frankie Beverley's "Joy and Pain," and the Temptations' "Ain't Too Proud to Beg." He's set to speak there again tonight.

Payne's husband, Fred Payne, 64, said he learned of the affair in late February, when he discovered e-mails between his wife and Wright.

"There must have been about 80 of them, back and forth," he said. "Wright said things like he was going to leave his wife for Elizabeth."

Wright has been married to his second wife, Ramah, for more than 20 years.

The preacher reportedly wooed Ramah away from her first husband in the 1980s, when the couple came to marriage counseling at Wright's Trinity United Church of Christ in Chicago.

After discovering he had been cuckolded, Fred Payne, who had married Elizabeth in October 2006, headed straight for divorce court.

"I was downright mad about this bull- - - -," said Fred, who said he is "in the oil and gas business," belongs to a hunting club and makes his own bullets in his garage.

"People wouldn't be happy to know that my wife was sleeping with a black man."

He added, "Rev. Haynes doesn't like the interracial thing, either. This was quite an issue for him."

Elizabeth Payne said she has been banished by Haynes and the flock at Friendship-West.

"I'm not a member of the congregation anymore; I'm not even allowed on the premises," she said.

Wright became an embarrassment for Obama after videos of the preacher's old sermons emerged.

In them, Wright blamed the United States for the 9/11 attacks and boomed, "God damn America!"

143 yma o hyd  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:08:06am

re: #55 jwb7605

linky no workee
fix spacee, linky workee:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/ 09/09/2360240.htm?section=world

From workee linkee:

"The margin in favour of Senator Obama ranged from 9 per cent in India to 82 per cent in Kenya, ..."

Aww - so Kenyans would like B0 to win?
Let him go there, I say - its his father's country, after all ...

But note the low acceptance of him in India - three guesses why that is!

144 big steve  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:08:13am

re: #139 Ben Hur

What did you think? That the Europeans will elect a person of color before us?

but they have kicked our arse's on getting women to the top......Maggie.....Angela

145 galloping granny  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:08:14am

re: #93 lawhawk

Well, that settles it.

The world wants Obama.

Memo to world: You don't get to vote for Our President. We do.

I think history has proven that whomever it is that "The World" wants to be the President of the United States of America is invariably the wrong choice for our best interests.

146 Lizard by the Bay  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:08:15am

Let them smear. It's worked out so well for them so far.

147 midwestgak  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:08:21am

re: #99 Hhar

This may actually hurt Palin, depending on the response:


Its currently big on the obamaniac rant sites. Here.

The idea is that Palin hired Charlie Fannon, and therefore agreed with his stance. Seems weak.

is ridiculous.

148 Ben Hur  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:08:23am

re: #124 big steve

Of course that was a rhetorical question....

149 Nevergiveup  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:08:24am

It Was Four Years Ago Tonight:

[Link: doubleplusundead.mee.nu...]

Rathergate?

150 WrathofG-d  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:08:48am

The comparison of Christians to Muslim Fundementalists (ie: Islamists) is pathetic, and just like the comparison of U.S. Presidents to Hitler ignores the largest defining characteristic of the evil person they are comparing to.

151 pegcity  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:09:05am

so everyone when does the media turn on Obama?

I see it happening, once its clear he can't win they will eat him alive to try and save their skins.

If he loses which he will they know they have finally lost their last tiny shred of credibility.

I see a bloodletting ala night of the long knives. And you know Hilary will somehow come out of this on top of the Democrat party once again.

Obama is the best thing to happen to the republicans

152 zombie  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:09:12am

Wow, they're really going berserk at the oaks. Looks like today may be the final day.

153 Peacekeeper  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:09:18am

Of course about one fifth of the people who tell pollsters that they will vote Obama have no intention of doing so.

154 Outrider  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:09:20am

re: #130 Tigger2005

Is this dufus even aware Palin's not running for President of the U.S.?

And Obama, with no executive or foreign policy experience to speak of, is?

Ah! But she is "one heartbeat away" from the presidency as the Democrats tell us constantly.

With that line of thinking, I'm guessing the DNC leadership is thinking Pelosi is two heartbeats away from the presidency.

155 ploome hineni[deleted]  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:10:00am
156 The Other Les  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:10:16am

Got 50 minutes before I have to leave for my hair cut appointment.

So anyway...

157 MandyManners  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:10:19am

re: #131 Nevergiveup

But liberals are so pure:

"He almost wrecked Barack Obama's presidential dreams, and now firebrand pastor Jeremiah Wright has helped destroy a Dallas church worker's marriage - and her job, The Post has learned.

Elizabeth Payne, 37, said she had a steamy sexual affair with the controversial, racially divisive man of the cloth while she was an executive assistant at a church headed by a popular Wright protégé."

[Link: www.nypost.com...]

Gee I miss the good Rev. Wright

Wright has been married to his second wife, Ramah, for more than 20 years.

The preacher reportedly wooed Ramah away from her first husband in the 1980s, when the couple came to marriage counseling at Wright's Trinity United Church of Christ in Chicago.

158 zombie  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:10:22am

People throwing dirt and rocks at the Berkeley police -- they should all be arrested. That's assault. The cops are being too forgiving.

159 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:10:22am

re: #152 zombie

Wow, they're really going berserk at the oaks. Looks like today may be the final day.

Que?

160 big steve  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:10:24am

re: #152 zombie

Wow, they're really going berserk at the oaks. Looks like today may be the final day.

two questions...what is the oaks and when do we get to go berserk here?

161 Ford_Prefect  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:10:35am

re: #143 yma o hyd

I think it is rather interesting that 18% of Kenyans don't want him to be President.

162 J.D.  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:10:40am

re: #154 Outrider

With that line of thinking, I'm guessing the DNC leadership is thinking Pelosi is two heartbeats away from the presidency.


Happy thought.

163 pegcity  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:10:43am

not trying to be sexist but is it me or does Palin have a great sense of style, Hilary could learn a thing or two from her.

164 gozza  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:10:57am

Why arent conservative groups and bloggers getting together, and publishing lists of companies and products advertised in these left wing propaganda publications ?

I`d like to know which companies support this media and the traitors that write for them - so that I can stop buying their products.

I`m sure many, many Americans would do the same.

165 zombie  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:10:57am

re: #155 ploome hineni

slinging poopoo I heard on tv

Didn't see the poo, but I just saw moments ago about ten people throwing dirt and rocks.

166 big steve  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:11:10am

re: #163 pegcity

not trying to be sexist but is it me or does Palin have a great sense of style, Hilary could learn a thing or two from her.


like 86 the pantsuits

167 Tigger2005  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:11:20am

re: #163 pegcity

not trying to be sexist but is it me or does Palin have a great sense of style, Hilary could learn a thing or two from her.

Some have it and some ... just don't.

168 Crusty  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:11:23am

I guess Salon.com is jealous of US Weekly's subscriber base plummet.

169 MandyManners  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:11:31am

re: #141 J.D.

Isn't it a shame?

I've gone through one hankie already.

170 Typicalwhitey  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:11:44am

kos himself has taken over the front page over there.
He is posting all the front page articles right now.

He is in full out meltdown mode!
Trying to stop the bleeding and fire up his troops for obama.

good luck with that.

171 maddogg  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:11:50am

re: #153 Peacekeeper

Of course about one fifth of the people who tell pollsters that they will vote Obama have no intention of doing so.

That would be 20%, and would mean a McCain/Palin landslide. Is there real evidence of the validity of that, or is the evidence anecdotal?

172 Peacekeeper  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:11:52am

re: #152 zombie

At the risk of not sounding hip, what are you talking about?

173 ploome hineni[deleted]  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:12:15am
174 maddogg  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:12:31am

re: #156 The Other Les

Good luck with your interview.

175 The Other Les  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:12:34am

re: #158 zombie

People throwing dirt and rocks at the Berkeley police -- they should all be arrested. That's assault. The cops are being too forgiving.

What I don't understand is why some people have a problem with trains running on time.

(It's not like the police aren't already being called Fascists.)

176 westbankmama  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:12:35am

re: #149

And it was four years ago that I discovered blogs...by reading my first. Littlegreenfootballs!

177 Arrr  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:12:43am

I'm an Obama supporter, and I think that Juan Cole just did our cause a tremendous disservice. Sarah Palin's religious views scare me, but she is not even remotely as insane as Muslim fundamentalists.

Sarah Palin didn't murder her daughter for having a child out of wedlock. She doesn't advocate the death penalty for apostates. She doesn't believe that homosexuals should be tortured to death. She doesn't wear the veil, nor does she believe that women should be forced to wear it on threat of violence. She doesn't believe in 2nd class citizenship for religious minorities. And when all is said and done, Sarah Palin is motivated, however erroneously, out of a sense of benevolence. Muslim fundamentalists are motivated by hatred and a desire to see the world burn.

Juan Cole just doesn't debase my cause, he makes a mockery of the suffering of tens of millions of people under the Islamist boot. Equating Palin to Muslim fundamentalists is a slap to the face of every victim of Islamist barbarism.

Saran Palin does not belong in the White House, but I'd much rather have her as president than any Wahhabi.

178 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:13:01am
179 Peacekeeper  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:13:07am

re: #171 maddogg

That would be 20%, and would mean a McCain/Palin landslide. Is there real evidence of the validity of that, or is the evidence anecdotal?

It's not anal!

180 Tigger2005  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:13:46am

re: #177 Arrr

I'm an Obama supporter, and I think that Juan Cole just did our cause a tremendous disservice. Sarah Palin's religious views scare me, but she is not even remotely as insane as Muslim fundamentalists.

Sarah Palin didn't murder her daughter for having a child out of wedlock. She doesn't advocate the death penalty for apostates. She doesn't believe that homosexuals should be tortured to death. She doesn't wear the veil, nor does she believe that women should be forced to wear it on threat of violence. She doesn't believe in 2nd class citizenship for religious minorities. And when all is said and done, Sarah Palin is motivated, however erroneously, out of a sense of benevolence. Muslim fundamentalists are motivated by hatred and a desire to see the world burn.

Juan Cole just doesn't debase my cause, he makes a mockery of the suffering of tens of millions of people under the Islamist boot. Equating Palin to Muslim fundamentalists is a slap to the face of every victim of Islamist barbarism.

Saran Palin does not belong in the White House, but I'd much rather have her as president than any Wahhabi.

Aaron? Is that you?

181 WrathofG-d  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:14:11am

re: #177 Arrr

Exactly! (except for the Palin shouldn't be in White House part)

182 J.D.  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:14:11am

re: #177 Arrr

I'm an Obama supporter


What appeals to you about him?

183 Muadib  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:14:21am

re: #17 pegcity

an idiot for the most part dosen't have 5 degrees, it took Juan how many man hours of studying to become this dumb?

An idiot with 5 degrees.

184 ploome hineni[deleted]  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:14:38am
185 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:14:57am

re: #183 Muadib

An idiot with 5 degrees.

Sounds like a fun party game - 5 Degrees of Idiocy!

186 Ford_Prefect  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:14:59am

re: #177 Arrr

I am curious. What in Obama's profile makes you want to support him?

187 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:15:00am
188 galloping granny  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:15:05am

re: #170 Typicalwhitey

kos himself has taken over the front page over there.
He is posting all the front page articles right now.

He is in full out meltdown mode!
Trying to stop the bleeding and fire up his troops for obama.

good luck with that.

Over where? Over at KOS?

189 The Other Les  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:15:09am

re: #161 Ford_Prefect

I think it is rather interesting that 18% of Kenyans don't want him to be President.

Well given the quality of local politicians in Kenya sticking The Big ZERO into office there may actually qualify as a significant improvement. I mean, the trash actually gets hauled away in Chicago.

Right?

190 Peacekeeper  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:15:14am

re: #171 maddogg

I'm full of shit on the percentages but the phenom is real.

191 MandyManners  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:15:16am

re: #170 Typicalwhitey

kos himself has taken over the front page over there.
He is posting all the front page articles right now.

He is in full out meltdown mode!
Trying to stop the bleeding and fire up his troops for obama.

good luck with that.

What's going on over there?

192 Hhar  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:15:26am

re: #177 Arrr

I'm an Obama supporter, and I think that Juan Cole just did our cause a tremendous disservice.

Well, no, he simply said what a lot of people who support your cause think.

Don't tell me you didn't know that.

193 Age Of Freedom  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:15:33am

Excellent links.
Unbelievable, this Juan Cole is practically a notch below being a full-on fascist. A notch, as in, didn't suicide bomb.
Yet.

194 midwestgak  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:15:33am

re: #181 WrathofG-d

Exactly! (except for the Palin shouldn't be in White House part)

Thanks for saying that. That's my opinion as well.

195 big steve  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:16:06am

re: #177 Arrr

In case you haven't heard, she is not running for President....so technically she will be in the Admiralty House.

196 J.D.  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:16:19am

Arrr, please don't say it's because "He's kewl". Pretty please.

197 MandyManners  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:16:21am

re: #177 Arrr

I'm an Obama supporter, and I think that Juan Cole just did our cause a tremendous disservice. Sarah Palin's religious views scare me, but she is not even remotely as insane as Muslim fundamentalists.

Sarah Palin didn't murder her daughter for having a child out of wedlock. She doesn't advocate the death penalty for apostates. She doesn't believe that homosexuals should be tortured to death. She doesn't wear the veil, nor does she believe that women should be forced to wear it on threat of violence. She doesn't believe in 2nd class citizenship for religious minorities. And when all is said and done, Sarah Palin is motivated, however erroneously, out of a sense of benevolence. Muslim fundamentalists are motivated by hatred and a desire to see the world burn.

Juan Cole just doesn't debase my cause, he makes a mockery of the suffering of tens of millions of people under the Islamist boot. Equating Palin to Muslim fundamentalists is a slap to the face of every victim of Islamist barbarism.

Saran Palin does not belong in the White House, but I'd much rather have her as president than any Wahhabi.

Get your facts straight. The White House is not the house of the VP.

198 The Other Les  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:16:24am

re: #163 pegcity

not trying to be sexist but is it me or does Palin have a great sense of style, Hilary could learn a thing or two from her.

Hillary is a superior being and is therefore incapable of learning from Governor Palin.

/sarcasm

199 lawhawk  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:16:26am

re: #115 zombie

You forgot the best part. The list of books included is the same one that has been making rounds for years on email lists about banned books.

200 midwestgak  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:16:37am

re: #195 big steve

In case you haven't heard, she is not running for President....so technically she will be in the Admiralty House.

Good one.

201 zombie  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:16:44am

re: #172 Peacekeeper

At the risk of not sounding hip, what are you talking about?

The oak tree protest in Berkeley.

202 Ford_Prefect  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:16:52am

re: #189 The Other Les

Well given the quality of local politicians in Kenya sticking The Big ZERO into office there may actually qualify as a significant improvement. I mean, the trash actually gets hauled away in Chicago.

Right?

Yes, then put into office.

203 Dave the.....  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:17:10am

Arrr, the liberal media are going to lose the election for your side. Their hatred is going to turn so many people away from Obama. See, unlike many people, Palin will very agressivly defend herself....and she'll do it whiling smiling and using wit.

It'd be like Ann Coulter and Michael Savage were the face of the Republican party.

I've notice Obama is starting to sound like John Kerry.

204 J.D.  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:17:13am

re: #202 Ford_Prefect

Cha-ching!

205 MandyManners  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:17:14am

Looks like meat's back on the menu, boys!

206 galloping granny  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:17:25am

re: #177 Arrr

I'm an Obama supporter, SNP

Saran Palin does not belong in the White House, but I'd much rather have her as president than any Wahhabi.

Just what is it that makes you feel that makes Obama belong in the White House while Governor Sarah Palin does not?

207 maddogg  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:17:36am

re: #195 big steve

In case you haven't heard, she is not running for President....so technically she will be in the Admiralty House.

For now.....

208 Peacekeeper  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:17:37am

re: #201 zombie

The oak tree protest in Berkeley.

BERKELLEY? Say no more.

209 The Other Les  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:17:54am

re: #166 big steve

like 86 the pantsuits

Have you SEEN Hillary's legs?

210 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:17:58am
211 rightwinger3  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:18:23am

re: #177 Arrr

I'm an Obama supporter, and I think that Juan Cole just did our cause a tremendous disservice. Sarah Palin's religious views scare me, but she is not even remotely as insane as Muslim fundamentalists.

Sarah Palin didn't murder her daughter for having a child out of wedlock. She doesn't advocate the death penalty for apostates. She doesn't believe that homosexuals should be tortured to death. She doesn't wear the veil, nor does she believe that women should be forced to wear it on threat of violence. She doesn't believe in 2nd class citizenship for religious minorities. And when all is said and done, Sarah Palin is motivated, however erroneously, out of a sense of benevolence. Muslim fundamentalists are motivated by hatred and a desire to see the world burn.

Juan Cole just doesn't debase my cause, he makes a mockery of the suffering of tens of millions of people under the Islamist boot. Equating Palin to Muslim fundamentalists is a slap to the face of every victim of Islamist barbarism.

Saran Palin does not belong in the White House, but I'd much rather have her as president than any Wahhabi.


How can you say "Sarah Palin does not belong in the White House" and yet support 0bama? He does? Just like 0bama Sarah Palin is over 35 and is a natural-born citizen.

212 WrathofG-d  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:18:25am

re: #184 ploome hineni

Juan is not alone. Religous Christians have often been wrongfully compared to Islamists. Remember CNN's "G-d's Holy Warriors" (or whatever it was called?)

It is always amazing to me that so-called intellectuals could compare Religous Christians, who work within the framework of a Democracy to have their personal views represented, and in an attempt to change the minds of other individuals; to Islamists who use violence, and threats of violence to force their views on other people against their will.

If they cannot see the difference....

213 midwestgak  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:18:29am

re: #203 Dave the.....

It'd be like Ann Coulter and Michael Savage were the face of the Republican party.

And Michelle Malkin

214 lawhawk  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:18:30am

re: #197 MandyManners

Heh.

215 The Other Les  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:18:40am

re: #174 maddogg

Good luck with your interview.

Thank you.

216 Ford_Prefect  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:18:43am

Ummm...Arrr? Hello?

217 J.D.  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:19:30am

re: #216 Ford_Prefect

Ummm...Arrr? Hello?

Maybe he's still trying to figure it out?

218 Ford_Prefect  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:19:39am

re: #209 The Other Les

Have you SEEN Hillary's legs?

Aahhhh! My eyes! My eyes!

219 NemoParticularis  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:19:41am

Do they think vaginas call out to each other in the jungle night?

Yes. It's called the Academy Awards.

220 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:19:43am
221 Dave the.....  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:19:48am
re: #203 Dave the.....

It'd be like Ann Coulter and Michael Savage were the face of the Republican party.

And Michelle Malkin

Correct. I've always like Michelle Malkin, but she seems to have jumped the shark recently. A little too over the top. I like an agressive conservative, but not a ranter.

222 Arrr  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:19:57am

re: #182 J.D.

Where do I begin? For starters, I agree with most of his views. When all is said and done, I believe that Obama is a brilliant pragmatic centrist who is just as committed to this country as McCain is. I like John McCain, but I think Obama is far more qualified to be president, and his policy towards radical Islamic extremism would be no different than John McCain's.

The problem with the democratic party is that you have a base of fanatical morons who refuse to acknowledge evil, and eat Juan Cole's shit up with a silver spoon. Obama has to mince his words, whereas McCain doesn't lose political points when he says he'll follow bin Laden to the gates of Hell.

223 JHW  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:20:05am

re: #177 Arrr

Good post, but you mentioned her religious views scare you. May I ask why? I've read extensively about Gov. Palin in the past few weeks, and have read very little, from her, concerning her religious beliefs. Most of the conjecture about her religious views have been at the very most, second hand, by far the majority has been wild conjecture and distorted to serve a nefarious purpose with no basis in reality. Given that she is granting access to ABC to interview her in depth, maybe we would be better off hearing from her what her religious views are rather than relying on others' spin on it.

224 littleben  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:20:19am

Whats the difference between Salon and a journalistic enterprise;
A lot of dipsticks.

225 Peacekeeper  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:20:26am

re: #201 zombie

On a personal note, I was a cop on the line at many riots and demonstrations over the years. Your reports were authentic to my ears.

226 MandyManners  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:20:29am

re: #209 The Other Les

Have you SEEN Hillary's legs?

We can't all be Heidi Klum.

227 big steve  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:20:31am

re: #209 The Other Les

Have you SEEN Hillary's legs?


now that did it.... finally something to washed out the inflated scrot image neurons courtesy of Zombie.

228 X-ray  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:20:44am

This is the journalistic discourse to be expected from the left.

People who base their political ideology on the dem trinity, Kickbacks (Rezco), Bumper sticker quotes (No War for OIL) and run on words (Chimpybushhitler). Will have trouble discussing issues in the deep end of the pool.

229 Typicalwhitey  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:20:56am

re: #188 galloping granny

Yes

He has 3 diaries up saying Gov. Palin is taking money from Alaska for staying at home and one gloating about Leiberman being blocked from luncheons in the Senate by the Dems.

230 Ford_Prefect  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:20:59am

re: #217 J.D.

Maybe he's still trying to figure it out?

Is that smoke I smell? Arrr stop, it's OK. Your brain is burning.

231 jill e  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:21:12am

This election will be about authenticity. This type of smear only serves to make the distinction between the two side all that clearer.

232 pegcity  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:21:12am

re: #212 WrathofG-d

Christians are too pacifist these days, they are being slaughtered everywhere muslims are a majority.

And they still don't resort to violence, yeah they are a huge threat.

233 unclassifiable  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:21:15am

And to think all McCain did was pick a woman for a position that in most administrations is the equivalent to a back up quarterback.

Cheney was an exception to this but look how much love that got him.

Al Gore, of course, is the protypical irrelavent sideliner.

Not saying that Sarah will be. McCain seems to have indicated she might be the "reform whip" in his administration (not a bad thing).

Still if Obama insist on running against Palin instead of McCain who am I to tell him that he's "actin' a fool".

234 The Other Les  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:21:18am

re: #208 Peacekeeper

BERKELLEY? Say no more.

Nudge, nudge. Wink, wink. Say no more...

235 DaddyO  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:21:20am

re: #25 pegcity

damn palin and her stupid glasses...



Now, now...
I'll take Palin's glasses over Kim Jong Il's glasses.

236 jwb7605  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:21:30am

re: #191 MandyManners

What's going on over there?

If the site is cleaning up, I'm sure it's in polite deference to Obama's suggestions.
There is no way the Obama campaign could even remotely be connected with Kos.
/sarc tag now OFF

When Bush asked SBVFT to knock it off, NO attention was paid to the request.
The group didn't want Kerry elected, and half wouldn't have voted for Bush.

/sarc tag now ON
The Bush campaign, remember, was secretly linked to SBVFT.

237 WrathofG-d  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:21:48am

re: #225 Peacekeeper

On a personal note, I was a cop on the line at many riots and demonstrations over the years. Your reports were authentic to my ears.

So what you are saying is that Zombie is a stooge for the pigs?

/;)

238 J.D.  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:21:58am

re: #222 Arrr

His "views" keep changing; do yours?

239 Elcid  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:22:05am

re: #140 JammieWearingFool

There you go.


LMAO.

240 Dianna  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:22:11am

re: #157 MandyManners

"At least he's not a hypocrite!" cries the lefty.

Unfortunately, Wright is a hypocrite. And a philandering one at that!

241 big steve  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:22:12am

re: #226 MandyManners

We can't all be Heidi Klum.


It was Bill's chest that got me grossed out

242 MandyManners  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:22:17am

re: #222 Arrr

I think you're a blithering idiot.

243 galloping granny  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:22:29am

re: #212 WrathofG-d

Juan is not alone. Religous Christians have often been wrongfully compared to Islamists. Remember CNN's "G-d's Holy Warriors" (or whatever it was called?)

It is always amazing to me that so-called intellectuals could compare Religous Christians, who work within the framework of a Democracy to have their personal views represented, and in an attempt to change the minds of other individuals; to Islamists who use violence, and threats of violence to force their views on other people against their will.

If they cannot see the difference....

It isn't that they can't see the difference, Wrath, it is that they do not want to see the difference. That would obliterate their entire basis for the "we are all the same" meme they so love to spout.

244 J.D.  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:22:41am

re: #226 MandyManners

We can't all be Heidi Klum.

No mention of Bill's spare tire.
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

245 midwestgak  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:22:47am

re: #221 Dave the.....

Correct. I've always like Michelle Malkin, but she seems to have jumped the shark recently. A little too over the top. I like an agressive conservative, but not a ranter.

Didn't realize that. Let's hope she returns to the fold of mature/rational conservatism.

246 pegcity  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:22:49am

re: #222 Arrr

Where do I begin? For starters, I agree with most of his views. When all is said and done, I believe that Obama is a brilliant pragmatic centrist who is just as committed to this country as McCain is. I like John McCain, but I think Obama is far more qualified to be president, and his policy towards radical Islamic extremism would be no different than John McCain's.

The problem with the democratic party is that you have a base of fanatical morons who refuse to acknowledge evil, and eat Juan Cole's shit up with a silver spoon. Obama has to mince his words, whereas McCain doesn't lose political points when he says he'll follow bin Laden to the gates of Hell.

Wow where to begin, ill just say that i wish you luck here, i hope you brought your million SPF sunscreen cause the flames will be mighty hot

247 Ford_Prefect  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:22:54am

re: #222 Arrr

Where do I begin? For starters, I agree with most of his views. When all is said and done, I believe that Obama is a brilliant pragmatic centrist who is just as committed to this country as McCain is. I like John McCain, but I think Obama is far more qualified to be president, and his policy towards radical Islamic extremism would be no different than John McCain's.

The problem with the democratic party is that you have a base of fanatical morons who refuse to acknowledge evil, and eat Juan Cole's shit up with a silver spoon. Obama has to mince his words, whereas McCain doesn't lose political points when he says he'll follow bin Laden to the gates of Hell.

Seriously? Based on what?

248 WrathofG-d  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:23:06am

re: #232 pegcity

Whether or not Christians and other non-muslims should be using violence to defend themselves against violent Islamists is a topic I will not be discussing here on LGF.

249 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:23:25am

re: #201 zombie

The oak tree protest in Berkeley.

Which is....?

250 Peacekeeper  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:23:26am

re: #237 WrathofG-d

So what you are saying is that Zombie is a stooge for the pigs?

/;)

Most "Journalists" cover these things from a (very) safe distance, like the bar of the Sheraton.

251 rightwinger3  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:23:28am

re: #222 Arrr

Where do I begin? For starters, I agree with most of his views. When all is said and done, I believe that Obama is a brilliant pragmatic centrist who is just as committed to this country as McCain is. I like John McCain, but I think Obama is far more qualified to be president, and his policy towards radical Islamic extremism would be no different than John McCain's.

The problem with the democratic party is that you have a base of fanatical morons who refuse to acknowledge evil, and eat Juan Cole's shit up with a silver spoon. Obama has to mince his words, whereas McCain doesn't lose political points when he says he'll follow bin Laden to the gates of Hell.

How so?

252 Outrider  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:23:31am

re: #171 maddogg

That would be 20%, and would mean a McCain/Palin landslide. Is there real evidence of the validity of that, or is the evidence anecdotal?

I doubt there are any statistics but there appears to be more than enough anecdotal information. There seems to be any number of people that say they will support a given candidate when they are with their peer group or spouse. Once a person is out of sight, they can vote their conscience. Probably works the same as the exit polls which rarely seem to reflect the actual votes.

253 MandyManners  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:23:35am

bbiab

254 charles_martel  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:23:35am

Once again, Juan Cole posts abject lies: the book burning smear has been thoroughly refuted by both snopes.com and factcheck.org. See the CNN article: [Link: politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com...]

255 big steve  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:23:40am

re: #242 MandyManners

I think you're a blithering idiot.


I think we need to just reason with arrr. His post was reasonable and maybe we can turn him/her.

256 Tigger2005  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:23:51am

Why do you think Sarah doesn't belong in the White House, as Veep, but Obama does belong in the White House, as Prez?

Sarah has much more relevant experience than Obama, and many more solid accomplishments in a shorter period of time. Obama supporters are hard-pressed to name any of his accomplishments.

Sarah has strong Christian religious beliefs but has given no indication that she intends to force them on anyone. On the other hand, Obama's religious beliefs directly inform his social, economic, and foreign policies. He attended a racist black identity church for 20 years, a church where the preacher promoted black liberation theology, a version of the religio-Marxist "liberation theology" originated by radical Latin American Catholic priests. He does not see people as individuals but rather as members of races and classes. He believes in targeting "the rich" and businesses for heavy taxation and income redistribution--in other words, punishing those who make and sell things for profit, as if that's a bad thing.

re: #177 Arrr

I'm an Obama supporter, and I think that Juan Cole just did our cause a tremendous disservice. Sarah Palin's religious views scare me, but she is not even remotely as insane as Muslim fundamentalists.

Sarah Palin didn't murder her daughter for having a child out of wedlock. She doesn't advocate the death penalty for apostates. She doesn't believe that homosexuals should be tortured to death. She doesn't wear the veil, nor does she believe that women should be forced to wear it on threat of violence. She doesn't believe in 2nd class citizenship for religious minorities. And when all is said and done, Sarah Palin is motivated, however erroneously, out of a sense of benevolence. Muslim fundamentalists are motivated by hatred and a desire to see the world burn.

Juan Cole just doesn't debase my cause, he makes a mockery of the suffering of tens of millions of people under the Islamist boot. Equating Palin to Muslim fundamentalists is a slap to the face of every victim of Islamist barbarism.

Saran Palin does not belong in the White House, but I'd much rather have her as president than any Wahhabi.

257 Iron Fist  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:23:54am

re: #130 Tigger2005

You have to love the way that the Obamessiah is now running against Palin instead of McCain. This will allow Palin to get as nasty as necessary with Obama and allow McCain to be Presidential, above the fray. I don't know if this is because Obama is so inexperienced that he doesn't realize what he is doing, or whether he thinks it somehow is to his advantage to fight agianst the Republican Vice Presidential nominee, but I think as a strategy it will come back to bite him.

I can't wait for the debates.

258 Peacekeeper  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:23:54am

re: #242 MandyManners

I think you're a blithering idiot.

Gracious as always...

259 pegcity  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:23:57am

re: #248 WrathofG-d

im just saying they are so far removed from a threat its not even funny, to believe otherwise is nothing but a twisted inversion of reality

260 J.D.  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:24:23am

Time for lunch.

261 Age Of Freedom  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:24:30am

re: #203 Dave the.....

I've notice Obama is starting to sound like John Kerry.

He does.

I have a feeling that when the big 0 will lose the election, there are going to actually be violent riots from the left.

The far left is increasingly growing with furious anger, while sucking in, with the hairy backwind of Islamists, many gullible idiots from the rest of the left.

262 unclassifiable  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:24:32am

re: #177 Arrr

Your almost there Arrr. Hang out a while and read.

263 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:24:40am

re: #233 unclassifiable

And to think all McCain did was pick a woman for a position that in
most administrations is the equivalent to a back up quarterback.

Cheney was an exception to this but look how much love that got him.

Al Gore, of course, is the protypical irrelavent sideliner.

Not
saying that Sarah will be. McCain seems to have indicated she might be
the "reform whip"
in his administration (not a bad thing).

See, there you go with the misogynist dominatrix talk again!
/

264 WrathofG-d  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:24:45am

re: #243 galloping granny

I would add, that the worst part, from my personal experience with very liberal/leftist people is that in their minds the Relgious Christians here in the U.S. are seen as WORSE than the Islamists.

265 galloping granny  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:25:03am

re: #229 Typicalwhitey

Yes

He has 3 diaries up saying Gov. Palin is taking money from Alaska for staying at home and one gloating about Leiberman being blocked from luncheons in the Senate by the Dems.

He should see the money the feds pay out for people to take days off, drive cross country, and work from home. Not to mention that someone should point out to him that his preferred candidate, Barrak Hussein Obama, has been collecting his senate paycheck from the American people during the entire time that he has been running for POTUS - and he gets paid for every single day, whether he bothers to cast a vote - or as he seems to prefer, not cast a vote.

266 Ford_Prefect  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:25:06am

re: #222 Arrr

Where do I begin? For starters, I agree with most of his views. When all is said and done, I believe that Obama is a brilliant pragmatic centrist who is just as committed to this country as McCain is. I like John McCain, but I think Obama is far more qualified to be president, and his policy towards radical Islamic extremism would be no different than John McCain's.

The problem with the democratic party is that you have a base of fanatical morons who refuse to acknowledge evil, and eat Juan Cole's shit up with a silver spoon. Obama has to mince his words, whereas McCain doesn't lose political points when he says he'll follow bin Laden to the gates of Hell.

OK, take your head out of the sand and breath.

267 DaddyO  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:25:16am

re: #226 MandyManners

We can't all be Heidi Klum.


Barack & Heidi

/sarc

268 Hhar  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:25:25am

re: #222 Arrr

Well, if he has to mince words, its because he owes people stuff. Then when he gets into power, they collect. That's politics.

Hello? Put those two ideas together: "Owes fanatical morons" and "Responsible for National Security" .

Not a nice juxtaposition, is it?

269 debutaunt  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:26:12am

re: #85 Outrider

Nice of him to agree she has the right to an opinion.

I am weary of their policy of stressing a bogus talking point, in this case; Gov Palin will force her beliefs on the country, even though she has stated there is a distinction between her personal and professional views.

I suspect their paranoia comes from the fact that they WILL force their personal beliefs on the country, as they have proven over and again with their social restructuring and class warfare.

It seems that you are conveniently forgetting that all Americans had to become Catholics when Kennedy was president.

270 pegcity  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:26:49am

re: #266 Ford_Prefect

yes because Mccain mentioned all those times how hezbollah and Hamas have legimiate grievences, and he wants to negotiate with Iran with no preconditions.

271 WrathofG-d  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:26:49am

re: #250 Peacekeeper

Reminds me of the old "jokes" that Israelis used to tell about the Journalists covering the Middle East. They would all file reports about Yesha, the plight of the poor oppressed Arab, and how horrible the Israelis were while sitting around in the lobby of a 5 star hotel, sipping expensive brandy, in the posh areas of Tel Aviv.

272 Noam Sayin'  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:26:51am

re: #222 Arrr

"...a brilliant pragmatic centrist ..."

Obama? A centrist?

You must be very young, and lacking a thesaurus.

273 Dave the.....  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:26:52am

Yeah, Obama is starting to use the "these guys are so crooked" type of speach. Just like Kerry when his campaign was faultering.

274 Arrr  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:26:55am

re: #223 JHW

Her views on abortion, creationism, global warming, and the role of God in American foreign policy scare me. If she were to become president, I don't think she'd have too much success imposing her views on the rest of the country, but someone having who thinks like that at the highest office of the most powerful nation in the world is a scary thought.

And her role as vice president is very relevant. Presidents don't always serve their entire terms. If - god forbid - anything were to happen to McCain that would make him unable to maintain his role as the president, Palin will be there to fill his shoes.

A VP is a lot more important that you think.

275 Age Of Freedom  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:26:59am

re: #177 Arrr

I'm NOT an 0bama supporter, and I think that Juan Cole just did our cause a tremendous disservice. Sarah Palin's religious views scare me, but she is not even remotely as insane as Muslim fundamentalists.

Sarah Palin didn't murder her daughter for having a child out of wedlock. She doesn't advocate the death penalty for apostates. She doesn't believe that homosexuals should be tortured to death. She doesn't wear the veil, nor does she believe that women should be forced to wear it on threat of violence. She doesn't believe in 2nd class citizenship for religious minorities. And when all is said and done, Sarah Palin is motivated, however erroneously, out of a sense of benevolence. Muslim fundamentalists are motivated by hatred and a desire to see the world burn.

Juan Cole just doesn't debase my cause, he makes a mockery of the suffering of tens of millions of people under the Islamist boot. Equating Palin to Muslim fundamentalists is a slap to the face of every victim of Islamist barbarism.

Saran Palin does not belong in the White House, but I'd much rather have her as president than any Wahhabi.

Fixed.

276 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:27:02am

re: #244 J.D.

No mention of Bill's spare tire.
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Just more to love. Like I say, why settle for six-pack abs when you can have the whole keg?

277 midwestgak  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:27:07am

re: #269 debutaunt

It seems that you are conveniently forgetting that all Americans had to become Catholics when Kennedy was president.

/////right?

278 charles_martel  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:27:19am

re: #222 Arrr

Wrong. Wrong. Wrong.

Your opinions about Obama are 180 degrees off of the truth. Are you lying, or just dumb?

279 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:27:20am
280 yma o hyd  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:27:24am

re: #161 Ford_Prefect

I think it is rather interesting that 18% of Kenyans don't want him to be President.

Thats probably those who remember his father ...

281 Honorary Yooper  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:27:31am

re: #188 galloping granny

Over where? Over at KOS?

Yes. I just peered into the malaria-infested swamp, and Markos "Screw Them" Moulitsas (D-Kook) has up several threads at the top of the front page.

282 maddogg  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:27:37am

re: #255 big steve

I think we need to just reason with arrr. His post was reasonable and maybe we can turn him/her.

So, who's gonna bite arrr on the neck?

283 WrathofG-d  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:27:44am

re: #259 pegcity

284 scottishbuzzsaw  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:27:46am

re: #269 debutaunt

It seems that you are conveniently forgetting that all Americans had to become Catholics when Kennedy was president.

LOL! Well said!

285 pegcity  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:27:53am

re: #279 buzzsawmonkey

Um lying on all counts

286 jwb7605  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:28:04am

re: #269 debutaunt

It seems that you are conveniently forgetting that all Americans had to become Catholics when Kennedy was president.

He also "had guns in the basement"
I was barely capable of understanding either argument.
Now I understand the nuances, and still don't understand the argument.

287 The Other Les  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:28:18am

re: #249 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

Which is....?


A bunch of tree worshiping morons who are trying to stop the removal some old trees (which were planted by human hands and not Mother Gaia) so that the University administration is therefore prevented from erecting a structure that is actually useful to Human Beings.

288 lawhawk  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:28:44am

Democrats (leftists, but I repeat myself) would think nothing of extending the right to vote to illegal aliens.

Disdain of the Constitution. And bending to the will of international opinion.

That's the State of the Party of the Jackass in 2008.

289 MandyManners  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:29:01am

re: #255 big steve

I think we need to just reason with arrr. His post was reasonable and maybe we can turn him/her.

Nah. Anyone who thinks BHO is more qualified than Sen. McCain is a blithering idiot. Anyone who thinks BHO is a "brilliant pragmatic centrist" is a blithering idiot.

290 WrathofG-d  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:29:12am

re: #279 buzzsawmonkey

I think Obama would make a great Sec of State with a Strong Hawkish President, or as a V.P.

291 Alouette  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:29:38am

re: #222 Arrr

Where do I begin? For starters, I agree with most of his views. When all is said and done, I believe that Obama is a brilliant pragmatic centrist who is just as committed to this country as McCain is. I like John McCain, but I think Obama is far more qualified to be president, and his policy towards radical Islamic extremism would be no different than John McCain's.

What makes Obama more qualified than McCain?
What evidence do you have that Obama is committed to this country?
"Talk like a Pirate Day" isn't for another 10 days, Arrr.

292 pegcity  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:29:40am

re: #287 The Other Les

reminds me of the episode of its always sunny where Dennis convinces the hippy guy to chain himself to a tree and then bangs his girlfriend, and then bulldozes the tree afterwards

293 Colin Nelson  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:29:49am

#98 JHW.

Wow!

That article should top the 400+ downticks that annefrance (sp) scored on LGF a few days ago.

It is so far over the top it is hard to imagine the extent of the PDS Mallik suffers from.

Just to be safe, I tried to read the article with a big red Sarc tag on - doesn't work.

294 Peacekeeper  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:29:57am

re: #289 MandyManners

I hate seeing an idiot blither...

295 itellu3times  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:30:32am

re: #209 The Other Les

Have you SEEN Hillary's legs?

Do they reach the ground?

296 WrathofG-d  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:31:10am

Let's try to disagree politely, as we state others must!

297 Nancy  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:31:13am

I saw that earlier this morning and saw who the author was. Didn't read it.

Juan Cole charging that Palin is a Muslim.........that's like the kettle calling the pot black. Sheesh.........

298 calcajun  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:31:31am

There is a clip out there where Biden is actually trying to say--with a straight facce--that his partition plan for Iraq is actually being implemented now by the Iraqis. The Baghdad government hates his idea and knows it would never work, but Biden is pushing it along.

299 Joan Not of Arc  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:31:48am

Muslim fundamentalists don't wear lipstick- or do they?
But seriously, this is a childish piece of nonsense. Sarah Palin's pro-life views are somehow akin to Islamic states which the author didn't have a problem with before?
Just to humour me, I do wish leftists would keep their bullshit consistent.

300 semper gumbi  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:31:56am

re: #222 Arrr


A centrist? Well, I strongly disagree. Anyone that advocates wealth re-distribution and a larger government is not a centrist - IMO. And yes, Senator Obama espouses these views.

301 bulwrk  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:32:08am

If Americans really believed Obama was a centrist he would be up 10 points in the polls right now.

302 galloping granny  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:32:18am

re: #257 Iron Fist

You have to love the way that the Obamessiah is now running against Palin instead of McCain. This will allow Palin to get as nasty as necessary with Obama and allow McCain to be Presidential, above the fray. I don't know if this is because Obama is so inexperienced that he doesn't realize what he is doing, or whether he thinks it somehow is to his advantage to fight agianst the Republican Vice Presidential nominee, but I think as a strategy it will come back to bite him.

I can't wait for the debates.

As I have said several times of late, Obama is completely incapable of ignoring anything that he considers a slight to his prestige. He cannot laugh anything off - no matter how minor it is. He is incapable of holding his tongue and simply must respond to everything. This is what has let John McCain keep him on the ropes and off his own message since July. Since Sarah Palin's speech and her pointed jabs at Obama, he has forgotten all about John McCain. Sarah is the one slighting and mocking him, so she is the one he needs to grind into the dust.

Obama does not play chess. I would love to play poker with him. And he would be an absolutely horrible negotiator.

303 shrike  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:32:18am

I bet this site is going to be a hopping place fairly soon.....

Your text to link...

304 The Other Les  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:32:27am

re: #257 Iron Fist

JSM picked a viable successor.

I'm waiting for the MSM to use this against him on the grounds that he may have the reasonable expectation of not actually being able to serve out the first term and therefore he chose a grossly competent governor to cover for him should the state of his own health not allow to serve out the term.

Or is that too complex for the MSM?

305 WrathofG-d  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:32:38am

Maybe we are looking at this wrong.

If Palin is a Fundementalist Muslim...does that mean that McCain will be winning Caliphornia, New York, and Michigan this year!?

306 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:32:43am

re: #287 The Other Les

A
bunch of tree worshiping morons who are trying to stop the removal some
old trees (which were planted by human hands and not Mother Gaia) so
that the University administration is therefore prevented from erecting
a structure that is actually useful to Human Beings.

So the liberals who live in the city are rioting against the liberals who run the University? What was it that Kissinger said about the Iran/Iraq war?

307 pegcity  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:32:49am

re: #297 Nancy

I saw that earlier this morning and saw who the author was. Didn't read it.

Juan Cole charging that Palin is a Muslim.........that's like the kettle calling the pot black. Sheesh.........

oh thats a good one, yeah keep up with that one, its not like Obama went to a Madrassa for 4 years and more than half his extended family is muslim, and his former preacher is best friends with Farakhan

308 itellu3times  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:33:20am

re: #226 MandyManners

We can't all be Heidi Klum.

No, but if a dozen of you would be Heidi Klum and come by my place, I'll buy the booze.

309 shrike  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:33:28am

Ooops...that was www.sorryeverybody.com...] target="_blank">

310 Honorary Yooper  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:33:30am

re: #222 Arrr

You don't know the first flippin' thing about Obama. He has been brought up in the culture of corruption that passes for Chicago politics amongst the Daleys, th Strogers, and others. His polticial mentor in the Illinois Senate was Emil Jones (D-ComEd). Jones is so deep in ComEd's pockets, he can find the lint. Let's talk about William Ayres, son of former ComEd CEO Thomas Ayres. Bill Ayres introduced Obama to the poltical world at his house, and did I mention Ayres is a home-grown terrorist? Then we have Rezko (need I say more?).

I can go on and on, if you want.

311 kansas  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:33:32am

Oh and This From MSNBC
Palin bills state for nights at home, kids’ travel
Officials defend reimbursements, but trips with children raise questions

Did I miss the Joe Biden Scrutiny? Heh.

312 The Other Les  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:33:36am

re: #262 unclassifiable

Your almost there Arrr. Hang out a while and read.

Nine more days until Talk Like a Pirate Day.

313 DaddyO  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:33:59am

Blithering Drooling Idiot

314 jwb7605  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:34:04am

re: #289 MandyManners

Nah. Anyone who thinks BHO is more qualified than Sen. McCain is a blithering idiot. Anyone who thinks BHO is a "brilliant pragmatic centrist" is a blithering idiot.

Anyone who thinks the above is probably under 30 and lives in Boulder Colorado (or the equivalent near you).

40 years ago, the slogan should have been "never trust anyone under 30" I figured that out when I was 19 after one wasted year of college in 1967.
I'm not sure if the original slogan referred to judgement, though. Never knew for sure.

315 Son of the Black Dog  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:34:15am

re: #161 Ford_Prefect

I think it is rather interesting that 18% of Kenyans don't want him to be President.

That's the educated 18 percent.

316 Tigger2005  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:34:19am

Arrr, it seems to me you are just making Obama into whatever you want him to be. He's give no indication in his life or career that he is anything you say he is. All you have is his word. What reason has he given you to trust it, with all the flip-flopping he's done during this campaign?

317 Outrider  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:34:31am

re: #269 debutaunt

It seems that you are conveniently forgetting that all Americans had to become Catholics when Kennedy was president.

I'm assuming that was sarcasm?

318 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:35:01am

re: #302 galloping granny

Obama does not play chess. I would love to play poker with him. And he would be an absolutely horrible negotiator.

I, uhh... umm.... see your $50 and uhh...., uhhh...., raise you.... uhhh..... uhh... this is beyond my pay grade.

319 Spenser (with an S)  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:35:04am

So, I was in the car when Rush was playing those awesome clips of news outlets cutting away from the messiah during his speech because Sarah was about to start talking. May I just say? AWESOME.

320 pegcity  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:35:12am

re: #316 Tigger2005

yeah his word seems to change according to the day of the week.

Just remember his position on Jerusalem, what was it again this week?

321 itellu3times  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:35:39am

re: #163 pegcity

not trying to be sexist but is it me or does Palin have a great sense of style, Hilary could learn a thing or two from her.

Palin has an adequate sense of style, which puts her miles above Hillary.

Cindy McCain is the class act, and I think she tones it down for her public appearances.

322 Silhouette  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:36:08am

re: #269 debutaunt

It seems that you are conveniently forgetting that all Americans had to become Catholics when Kennedy was president.

The hardest part was when we all had to grow peanuts in the 70s.

323 Ford_Prefect  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:36:11am

The thing is Arrr, you call him a centrist, yet he has never once in his political career voted against his fellow Dems. Don't you think that if he really were a centrist that would have happened at least once?

324 unclassifiable  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:36:27am

re: #263 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

Holy crap it's a generic political position. Ok Ok fine she's gonna wear all leather, fully loaded bandoliers, and cary a big friggin bull whip that will be no fun for anyone.

I hope your happy because mixing politics with anything else just messes up the anything else;)

/false rant off

325 classicLib  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:36:31am

There need to be an FEC investigation. McCain must answer for all these "in kind" contributions to his campaign. I mean these leftist can't be this dumb. It's time to call shenanigans.

326 midwestgak  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:36:34am

re: #222 Arrr

Where do I begin? For starters, I agree with most of his views. When all is said and done, I believe that Obama is a brilliant pragmatic centrist blow hard who is just as committed to this countryhis Marxist beliefs as McCain is ProAmerican.

Had to fix that.

327 jpkoch  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:36:40am

She calls abortion an "atrocity" and pledges to reshape the judiciary to fight it

Anyone who saw the results of an abortion would agree.

328 sparrowlake  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:36:42am
You could practically feel the crowd getting a collective woody as Palin bent Obama and the Democrats over, shoved a leather gag in their mouths and flogged them as un-American wimps, appeasers and losers. "Drill, baby, drill!" the chant ecstatically repeated by the GOP faithful during Rudy Giuliani's speech, acquired a distinctly Freudian subtext after Palin spoke. The more Palin drilled the Democrats, the more hotly the base yearned to drill her. (We will leave it to shrinks to determine whether the GOP hardcore has the hots for Palin because she's reaming the Democrats, or because authority-worshippers tend to have secret fantasies of being reamed themselves.)
- Gary Kamiya

Sickos like Kamiya are the ones who need psychiatric care.
That aside, this type of over-the-top vicious comment helps McCain-Palin rather than hurting them - keep it up, Moonbats, you're gonna lose!

329 The Other Les  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:36:42am

re: #276 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

Just more to love. Like I say, why settle for six-pack abs when you can have the whole keg?

I have a whole keg.

I could live without it though.

330 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:36:46am

re: #322 Silhouette

The hardest part was when we all had to grow peanuts in the 70s.

LOL!

331 WrathofG-d  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:37:02am

re: #323 Ford_Prefect

If being the "Most liberal Senator" in an already Liberal Senate, makes one a "centrist"...... (or even pragmatic...)

332 jester6  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:37:46am

Very few people are going to read these articles. But they do represent the sort of thing people on the left have been saying amongst themselves for years.

Reagan is a cowboy war monger. Thatcher pees standing up. Bush I is wimp. Bush II is a retard. Same shtick different election.

333 pegcity  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:37:58am

re: #331 WrathofG-d

he wouldn't even be a centrist in Canada.

334 midwestgak  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:38:26am

re: #327 jpkoch

She calls abortion an "atrocity" and pledges to reshape the judiciary to fight it


Anyone who saw the results of an abortion would agree.

abomination too. When did she make that comment? That's ballsy

335 debutaunt  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:38:32am

re: #152 zombie

Wow, they're really going berserk at the oaks. Looks like today may be the final day.

I've tried to imagine the uproar if a judge sentenced people to live in a tree for over a year.

336 Wild Knight  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:39:12am

re: #289 MandyManners

Nah. Anyone who thinks BHO is more qualified than Sen. McCain is a blithering idiot. Anyone who thinks BHO is a "brilliant pragmatic centrist" is a blithering idiot.

I agree with Big Steve. Arr didn't rant and froth at the mouth and he made points which can be tackled rationally and profitably. He has shown courtesy in his posts unlike some persons I could mention (remember those 10,000,000 downdings?) so I see no reason why he should not be engaged in a similarly courteous tone.

337 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:39:15am

re: #8 P. Aaron

What the difference between Palin and the left?

Substance.

Bathing.

338 Ford_Prefect  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:39:16am

re: #325 classicLib

There need to be an FEC investigation. McCain must answer for all these "in kind" contributions to his campaign. I mean these leftist can't be this dumb. It's time to call shenanigans.

OK. So you are implying that it is the McCain camp writing these kind of articles?

339 akak  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:39:17am

so the Philly subway passenger bystander's wussed out just like the Canadian bus bystander's?

340 NC State of Mind  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:39:33am

re: #319 Spenser (with an S)

Excellent! Fox News is running new numbers right now that show McCain is striking gold among white women voters. IMO, as I said this morning, Palin should be in MI and PA very often. I think she could help deliver one, if not both of these democratic strongholds.

341 Silhouette  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:39:43am

re: #331 WrathofG-d

If being the "Most liberal Senator" in an already Liberal Senate, makes one a "centrist"...... (or even pragmatic...)

How far left does one have to be standing to consider the "most liberal senator" in the center?

342 Arrr  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:39:43am

re: #270 pegcity

Wow, this thread moves so fast I can't possibly reply to all of these comments, but I will try to the best of my ability. Information overload!

I think Charles Johnson needs to start his own forums.

That said, I will say that I respect LGF because it is not an echo chamber like Democratic Underground or Free Republic. This site tolerates dissenting opinions provided that they are thoughtful and not made for the sake of trolling.

In regards to Hamas and Hezbollah's stated grievances, the key word here is stated. It's propaganda. Like the Nazis, they pretend to care about the legitimate grievances of people whom they regard as nothing less than human bombs. A significant minority of their constituents subscribe to their deranged ideology, but the majority are misguided and pitiable fools who fell for their propaganda and either turn a blind eye to their activities or support them out of a very misguided sense of sympathy.

President Bush supports a two-state solution for these very reasons. Take away the legitimate grievances (which Bush has acknowledged) of the Palestinians and Lebanese, and you essentially take the wind out of Hamas and Hezbollah's sails.

It's the same logic behind removing secular dictators like Saddam. Once they are gone and the Muslim world is free and democratic, al-Qaeda's propaganda will eventually lose its power to convince Muslims to apologize for them and turn the other way. You drain that pool of sympathy and support in the long term, you drain the swamp that jihadists thrive on, and jihadists ultimately meet the same fate globally that AQI met in Iraq.

343 Typicalwhitey  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:39:46am

re: #274 Arrr

I have a couple of questions Arrr if you don't mind.

1. Are you ok with Obama not choosing Hillary as the VP?
As a woman, who doesn't even like Hillary, I believe that she at least earned the right to be seriously considered and vetted. Personally and I am sure there are many who disagree, I believe she earned the position. Joe Biden did not.

2. Are you concerned about the amount of money that appears to be wasted in the Obama campaign?
Renting Invesco field, the huge stage setting, the increased Secret Service cost due to security concerns and the European trip, which could have been done in a more low key way (less cost).

3. Do you understand how insulting, how galling it is when Senator Obama refers to Gov. Palin as "the former mayor"?
To most women this is condescending as hell. It intentionally diminishes her accomplishments as the Governor with the highest approval rating of all sitting Governors in the US.

4. How exactly do you feel that Senator Obama has as much experience as Senator McCain?
There is no one, at least out here in flyover country, even supporters of his, that believe that.

5. How do you explain the statement that Obama and McCain would have the same policies toward radical islam when Obama himself has said that this is not true?

Thanks!

344 galloping granny  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:40:06am

re: #300 semper gumbi

A centrist? Well, I strongly disagree. Anyone that advocates wealth re-distribution and a larger government is not a centrist - IMO. And yes, Senator Obama espouses these views.

And anyone who advocates infanticide, even by dint of the infant being the product of a botched abortion, is nowhere close to centrist.

345 WrathofG-d  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:40:11am

re: #327 jpkoch

I would actually disagree with Palin on this. It is not the job of the Executive branch to "fill the Bench" with people who agree with their political, or moral views on particular issues (even Abortion) but instead individuals who would honestly, and accurately ENFORCE THE LAW as it is written.

If we as Conservatives get into the game of putting people on the SCOTUS who fit our political view on particular issues only, then we are NO BETTER than the libs who have been using the judiciary to overrule the popular will for decades.

If you wish to make Abortion illegal, then do it the appropriate way...through the Legislative Branch...not the Judiciary. (unless, it is a by product of overruling incorrec law such as Roe v Wade)

346 Spenser (with an S)  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:40:56am

re: #331 WrathofG-d

If being the "Most liberal Senator" in an already Liberal Senate, makes one a "centrist"...... (or even pragmatic...)

Exactly. Although I think to be fair, isn't he the 2nd most liberal? Arrr, you need to do more here than just say you think he's centrist. We'll give you a shot, but where does that opinion come from?

347 Typicalwhitey  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:41:04am

re: #281 Honorary Yooper

Yes. I just peered into the malaria-infested swamp, and Markos "Screw Them" Moulitsas (D-Kook) has up several threads at the top of the front page.


Look imo he is going to be leading the charge from now on.

Obama is his personal pick and he will do anything to prop him up.

348 Grok the Fullness  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:41:16am

cool breeze refreshing
strikes fear into demon heart
the right awakens

349 jwb7605  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:41:24am

re: #345 WrathofG-d

I would actually disagree with Palin on this. It is not the job of the Executive branch to "fill the Bench" with people who agree with their political, or moral views on particular issues (even Abortion) but instead individuals who would honestly, and accurately ENFORCE THE LAW as it is written.

If we as Conservatives get into the game of putting people on the SCOTUS who fit our political view on particular issues only, then we are NO BETTER than the libs who have been using the judiciary to overrule the popular will for decades.

If you wish to make Abortion illegal, then do it the appropriate way...through the Legislative Branch...not the Judiciary. (unless, it is a by product of overruling incorrec law such as Roe v Wade)

Thank you.

350 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:41:26am

re: #333 pegcity

he wouldn't even be a centrist in Canada.

Maybe in Cuba.

351 galloping granny  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:41:27am

re: #310 Honorary Yooper

You don't know the first flippin' thing about Obama. He has been brought up in the culture of corruption that passes for Chicago politics amongst the Daleys, th Strogers, and others. His polticial mentor in the Illinois Senate was Emil Jones (D-ComEd). Jones is so deep in ComEd's pockets, he can find the lint. Let's talk about William Ayres, son of former ComEd CEO Thomas Ayres. Bill Ayres introduced Obama to the poltical world at his house, and did I mention Ayres is a home-grown terrorist? Then we have Rezko (need I say more?).

I can go on and on, if you want.

And Obama met his wife at the law firm where he did an internship - and Michelle & Bernadette Dohrn both worked. Those ties to Ayers go way back.

352 Hard Right  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:41:28am

re: #332 jester6

Very few people are going to read these articles. But they do represent the sort of thing people on the left have been saying amongst themselves for years.

Reagan was a moronic, cowboy war monger. Thatcher pees standing up. Bush I is wimp and an idiot. Bush II is a retard. Same shtick different election.

Tweaked for historical accuracy.

353 WrathofG-d  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:41:30am

re: #333 pegcity

Well if you get rid of the Conservatives (because they are all Racists don't you know), then you compare Obama to the Anarchists (which he is to the right of), and the Corporate Democrats....maybe he does end up right smack dab in the middle.

354 Age Of Freedom  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:41:50am

Folks, good luck convincing Arrr 0bama isn't the 0ne.
Arrr, you know, you're holding two completely different views in one hand.
Your candidate and camp always miss the 800lbs gorilla in the room, called jihad.

Here's the deal, and I quote Bosch Fawstin:
" The thing that kills me since 9/11, almost as much as the attack itself, is that the safety of America and its people has not been our government’s singular most important duty, as it ought to be. If it were, this enemy would have been buried days after the atrocity, without an ounce of apology, and with the warning to the entire Muslim world that their Jihad against the West is Over and that any other attack against us will be followed by the obliteration of any and all of Islam’s ‘holy’ places."

Although I don't quite think McCain will hit the Chamberlain mark, B. Hussein 0. is in complete denial about the threats to the freeworld.

355 Honorary Yooper  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:42:07am

re: #347 Typicalwhitey

Look imo he is going to be leading the charge from now on.

Obama is his personal pick and he will do anything to prop him up.

Agreed. Markos will not tolerate any dissent within his ranks anymore.

356 Wild Knight  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:42:13am

re: #342 Arrr

updinged for the courteous way in which you discuss. Good for you.

357 itellu3times  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:42:29am

Y'all see the "Dear Mr. Obama" McCain ad?

358 Hard Right  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:42:49am

re: #325 classicLib

There need to be an FEC investigation. McCain must answer for all these "in kind" contributions to his campaign. I mean these leftist can't be this dumb. It's time to call shenanigans.

Another sleeper troll. Surprise.

359 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:43:44am

re: #336 Wild Knight

I agree with Big Steve. Arr didn't rant and froth at the mouth and he made points which can be tackled rationally and profitably. He has shown courtesy in his posts unlike some persons I could mention (remember those 10,000,000 downdings?) so I see no reason why he should not be engaged in a similarly courteous tone.

BHO is a phony centrist; he wants people to believe that he's a centrist so he can get elected. He's about as "centrist" as Bill Ayres, Rev. Wright, and Pfather Pfleger.

360 Typicalwhitey  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:44:11am

re: #357 itellu3times

Actually that was not done by the McCain campaign.
That guy did it on his own.

361 zombie  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:44:21am

re: #125 pegcity

last time i checked liberals run all the libraries and book stores, so they merely don't stock anything Conservative, isn't that worse?

EXACTLY.

I've worked in bookstores. Mostly, they simply don't even order any conservative books to begin with. What, do I run around crying "censorship!"?

The Wasilla town library was very very small, with room for a few thousand books. You can't have every book ever published on the shelves. You have to choose. Who chooses? Every time the left-wing librarian failed to order this-or-that book, did the town scream "You're banning books!"? Every time she purposely ordered some envelope-pushing kids' book with obscenities or sex, was she punished for "banning" all the books she didn't order that lacked obscenities?

The whole issue is laughable.

If I walked into, say, the Berkeley Public Library and put a copy of Jesus Loves George Bush in the kids's section, you can guarantee the librarians would remove it instantly. But, you see, that doesn't count as "banning," because...because...well, because left-wingers are incapaoable of doing anything bad!

362 classicLib  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:44:42am

re: #338 Ford_Prefect

OK. So you are implying that it is the McCain camp writing these kind of articles?

No, it's satire pointing out how incredibly stupid these lefties are for a) writing these stupid articles in the first place and b) still not realizing that they have been backfiring on them bigtime.

363 sparrowlake  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:44:44am

re: #335 debutaunt

I've tried to imagine the uproar if a judge sentenced people to live in a tree for over a year.

Peter Pan!
I plead guilty, yer honner!

364 Age Of Freedom  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:44:46am

re: #288 lawhawk

Democrats (leftists, but I repeat myself) would think nothing of extending the right to vote to illegal aliens.

Disdain of the Constitution. And bending to the will of international opinion.

That's the State of the Party of the Jackass in 2008.

Bookmarked.

365 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:44:47am

re: #339 akak

so the Philly subway passenger bystander's wussed out just like the Canadian bus bystander's?

There's been a big uptick in the number of subway attacks here lately. I'd like to think that I would have intervened if I saw this happen.

366 semper gumbi  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:44:55am

re: #345 WrathofG-d


If you wish to make Abortion illegal, then do it the appropriate way...through the Legislative Branch...not the Judiciary. (unless, it is a by product of overruling incorrec law such as Roe v Wade)

I'm pretty sure I read somewhere (probalby NRO) that this is exactly Governor Palin's stance. In fact, I believe her response to mosat controversial issues like abortion and what should be taught in schools is to let the people decide, either through the legislature or a direct vote. This tells me she has a sound grasp of the role of the executive, which bolsters her credentials to be the Vice Presidential nominee.

367 Noam Sayin'  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:45:03am

re: #342 Arrr

On Obama's centrism. It's a two-parter.

Thanks for hanging around Arrr. I'll look forward to your commentary over the next couple months.

368 itellu3times  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:45:27am

re: #360 Typicalwhitey

Actually that was not done by the McCain campaign.
That guy did it on his own.

Explains why it's 1:55 I guess.

But it still works.

369 Silhouette  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:45:38am

The Berkeley trees are in many ways, the whole LLL movement in a nutshell.

Valuing anything over human activity. Meaningless posturing. Asinine allocation of assets: spending thousands of dollars to save a handful of trees, when the same money could have purchased hundreds of acres of woodlands to preserve, as the owners, for eternity.

370 experiencedtraveller  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:45:39am

re: #158 zombie

People throwing dirt and rocks at the Berkeley police -- they should all be arrested. That's assault. The cops are being too forgiving.

Throw a rock at a cop in NYC and you will be beaten, then arrested and maybe beaten some more.

371 Typicalwhitey  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:45:39am

re: #325 classicLib

There need to be an FEC investigation. McCain must answer for all these "in kind" contributions to his campaign. I mean these leftist can't be this dumb. It's time to call shenanigans.

You misspelled "Obama" as "McCain" classic.

The MSM has been in the tank for Obama and that should count as contributions. As well as Kos, DU and others.

372 scottishbuzzsaw  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:46:33am

re: #357 itellu3times

Y'all see the "Dear Mr. Obama" McCain ad?


*grabbing tissues* That was beautiful...

373 Son of the Black Dog  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:46:39am

re: #171 maddogg

That would be 20%, and would mean a McCain/Palin landslide. Is there real evidence of the validity of that, or is the evidence anecdotal?

Well, BHO did underperform his final poll numbers in most of the Dem primaries. More so than Dems usually do (read Gore, Kerry exit polls).

On an anecdotal level, I've lived in several areas of the country where there are a lot of Democrats that I can't see ever voting for a black person for president. One person in particular was probably the most racist man I've ever known, and a down-the-line yellow-dog Democrat. I just can't believe he'll vote for BHO - probably won't vote for McCain either, but I'll bet he goes fishing on election day.

374 Spenser (with an S)  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:46:55am

re: #345 WrathofG-d

Wrath, I agree with you re: particular positions, but I've heard some honest pro-choicers admit that Roe v. Wade is just horrible law. A reach of stupendous proportions to obtain a goal. As you know, overturning it would just send it to the states and the legislature as you think should be done, right?

375 WrathofG-d  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:47:10am

re: #366 semper gumbi

Well if that is true, I'd rather her as POTUS.

376 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:47:15am

re: #361 zombie

EXACTLY.

I've
worked in bookstores. Mostly, they simply don't even order any
conservative books to begin with. What, do I run around crying
"censorship!"?

The Wasilla town library was very very small, with
room for a few thousand books. You can't have every book ever published
on the shelves. You have to choose. Who chooses? Every time the
left-wing librarian failed to order this-or-that book, did the town
scream "You're banning books!"? Every time she purposely ordered some
envelope-pushing kids' book with obscenities or sex, was she punished
for "banning" all the books she didn't order that lacked obscenities?

The whole issue is laughable.

If I walked into, say, the Berkeley Public Library and put a copy of Jesus Loves George Bush
in the kids's section, you can guarantee the librarians would remove it
instantly. But, you see, that doesn't count as "banning,"
because...because...well, because left-wingers are incapaoable of doing
anything bad!

Borders Bookstores & the local library always pats themselves on their backs for their "Celebrate Banned Books" Week. I enjoy the looks on people's faces when I ask why isn't The Bible included in their list?

377 Grok the Fullness  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:47:16am

freaks smearing rampant
Sarah parrys cheerfully
Hell's hate frustrated

378 Nancy  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:47:23am

re: #326 midwestgak

Good thing you fixed it ......I choked on the "brilliant pragmatist centrist."

Is there another Obama running? It can't be the one I have seen and heard speak.

Actually Hillary is more of a pragmatist and more centrist in many areas than Obama and I wasn't a supporter of hers.

379 Vergeltung  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:47:37am

re: #267 DaddyO

Barack & Heidi

/sarc

oh crikey, what a waste.....

380 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:47:37am

It's moonbat whack-a-mole day.

381 Shr_Nfr  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:47:47am

re: #209 The Other Les

Seriously, why should I bother to look at them. They have no relevance to anything. I don't look at McCain's legs either. His shoulders are the evidence of his bravery and courage. All the rest is what lies between the ears.

382 midwestgak  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:47:54am

re: #366 semper gumbi

I'm pretty sure I read somewhere (probalby NRO) that this is exactly Governor Palin's stance. In fact, I believe her response to mosat controversial issues like abortion and what should be taught in schools is to let the people decide, either through the legislature or a direct vote. This tells me she has a sound grasp of the role of the executive, which bolsters her credentials to be the Vice Presidential nominee.

Thanks. I have not been finding articles that address this stance. Good to know.

383 Typicalwhitey  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:48:09am

re: #368 itellu3times

It works because it is a real person doing what he believes.

Can't beat that!

384 Hard Right  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:48:12am

re: #362 classicLib

No, it's satire pointing out how incredibly stupid these lefties are for a) writing these stupid articles in the first place and b) still not realizing that they have been backfiring on them bigtime.

I thought that was a strange thing to say considering your name.
My apologies. BTW, don't forget the sarcasm tag: /

385 WrathofG-d  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:49:06am

re: #374 Spenser (with an S)

I have read and studied Roe v. Wade and it was a complete snow job to get a political position past a legislature that would have (or already had) denied its acceptance. Roe v Wade is horrible law, which was created out of whole cloth.

I believe the entire country should go back to state rights and the expansions of the commerce clause, and the Full Faith & Credit clause should reexamined.

386 galloping granny  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:49:35am

re: #325 classicLib

There need to be an FEC investigation. McCain must answer for all these "in kind" contributions to his campaign. I mean these leftist can't be this dumb. It's time to call shenanigans.

you firgot your sarc tag

387 Honorary Yooper  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:49:41am

re: #351 galloping granny

And Obama met his wife at the law firm where he did an internship - and Michelle & Bernadette Dohrn both worked. Those ties to Ayers go way back.

It's a web. There are some serious connections between our electric utility monopoly here in northeastern Illinois and the Obama campaign I'm running searches on.

As far as I can find, Bill Ayres father, Thomas Ayres, was the CEO of Commonwealth Edison. Tom Ayres used his power at times to keep Bill out of trouble, but did a substantial amount of "community organizing" himself. Later, he hand-picked Frank Clark to be the CEO of ComEd. Clark is one of the major bundlers, if not the main bundler for Obama.

The single largest donors to the Obama campaign are the employees and managers of ComEd, including Clark.

Emil Jones, Obama political mentor in the Illinois Senate is deep inside the pocket of ComEd. Jones has supported every rate hike ComEd has wanted over the years.

Obama was introduced to politics at Bill Ayres house. He met his wife at that law firm where, of all things, Ayres's wife worked.

I'm sure there's much, much more. It's merely a matter of how deep we can dig.

388 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:49:52am
389 roguejew  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:49:53am
390 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:50:01am

re: #376 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

Borders Bookstores & the local library always pats themselves on their backs for their "Celebrate Banned Books" Week. I enjoy the looks on people's faces when I ask why isn't The Bible included in their list?

Good on ya.

391 rawmuse  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:51:04am

re: #389 roguejew

Jeremiah Wright is named in a sex scandal!

Was he ridin' dirty?

392 WriterMom  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:51:06am

Sniff sniffffff

393 jpkoch  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:51:28am

re: #222 Arrr

Where do I begin? For starters, I agree with most of his views. When all is said and done, I believe that Obama is a brilliant pragmatic centrist who is just as committed to this country as McCain is. I like John McCain, but I think Obama is far more qualified to be president, and his policy towards radical Islamic extremism would be no different than John McCain's.

The problem with the democratic party is that you have a base of fanatical morons who refuse to acknowledge evil, and eat Juan Cole's shit up with a silver spoon. Obama has to mince his words, whereas McCain doesn't lose political points when he says he'll follow bin Laden to the gates of Hell.

Obama the Pragmatist wishes to mandate that all Public School students devote 2 hours a week to "Community Service" (See his June 2008 Speech in Colorado Springs). The problem with this is the Constitutional prohibition to indentured servitude.

Obama the Pragmatist promises to allow the Bush Tax Cuts to expire in 2010.

Obama the Pragmatist promises to end fossils the use of fossil fuels within a decade to effect a a 20% reduction in a trace gas (called CO2). The only problem with this promise is that there is no other energy source available that could pick up the slack.

Obama the Pragmatist refers to Conservative Rural Voters as Bitter Clingers...

Obama the Pragmatist vows to invade Pakistan.

Obama the Pragmatist vows to negotiate carte blanche with the Iranians.

Obama the Pragmatist voted against the Surge in 2006, but nows takes credit for its successes. BTW, The Pragmatist refused to meet with General Petreuous in June.

Obama the Pragmatist vows to institute Universal Health Coverage for everyone without making enrollment into it mandatory.

Obama the Pragmatist demanded of the German Government that he be allowed to give a Berlin Speech in front of that symbol of Prussian aggression: The Brandenburg Gate. When the Germans refused, he gave his speech in front of that other Prussian symbol of aggression: The Victory Column. His enthusiasm for Prussian symbols continued with DNC acceptance speech, which he gave in front of Styrofoam model eerily resembling the Brandenburg Gate. What is it with him and the Prussians?

394 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:51:46am

re: #391 rawmuse

Was he ridin' dirty?

Bitch set me up!

395 Spenser (with an S)  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:51:52am

re: #385 WrathofG-d


re: #374 Spenser (with an S)

I have read and studied Roe v. Wade and it was a complete snow job to get a political position past a legislature that would have (or already had) denied its acceptance. Roe v Wade is horrible law, which was created out of whole cloth.

I believe the entire country should go back to state rights and the expansions of the commerce clause, and the Full Faith & Credit clause should reexamined.

Sounds great! When's your convention and can I be a delegate?

396 WriterMom  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:52:02am

re: #389 roguejew

TOO GOOD TO CHECK ALERT!

397 midwestgak  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:52:35am

re: #393 jpkoch

Thank you so very much!

398 roguejew  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:52:56am

Busted with his "hand" in her cookie jar! I'm sure it's not the person that Obama once knew.......

399 sparrowlake  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:52:59am

re: #385 WrathofG-d

I believe the entire country should go back to state rights

Y'all bring back slavery and segregation while y'all are at it.

400 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:53:34am

re: #389 roguejew

Jeremiah Wright is named in a sex scandal!

Wow, she worked At Friendship West? Pretty wild. That's one of several black megachurches here in Dallas.

401 galloping granny  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:53:43am

re: #387 Honorary Yooper

It's a web. There are some serious connections between our electric utility monopoly here in northeastern Illinois and the Obama campaign I'm running searches on.

As far as I can find, Bill Ayres father, Thomas Ayres, was the CEO of Commonwealth Edison. Tom Ayres used his power at times to keep Bill out of trouble, but did a substantial amount of "community organizing" himself. Later, he hand-picked Frank Clark to be the CEO of ComEd. Clark is one of the major bundlers, if not the main bundler for Obama.

The single largest donors to the Obama campaign are the employees and managers of ComEd, including Clark.

Emil Jones, Obama political mentor in the Illinois Senate is deep inside the pocket of ComEd. Jones has supported every rate hike ComEd has wanted over the years.

Obama was introduced to politics at Bill Ayres house. He met his wife at that law firm where, of all things, Ayres's wife worked.

I'm sure there's much, much more. It's merely a matter of how deep we can dig.

While you are hunting, you might take a look at Fannie and Fred. I came across an article yesterday stating that several of the top folks in Obama's campaign (I do not recall if they are staff members or top contributors or both) were high up in Fannie & Freddie and the problems there started on their watch.

402 Silhouette  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:54:29am

re: #385 WrathofG-d

Roe v Wade is horrible law, which was created out of whole cloth..

You would think Dems, with all their Union membership, who understand no one changes the light bulbs but the light bulb union, and no one hammers a nail except the hammer union, would understand that lawmakers make the laws, and judges don't.

403 WriterMom  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:54:34am

Hmmm. I guess white women are good enough for adultry-according to Rev. Wright.

404 Wild Knight  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:54:53am

re: #359 Ward Cleaver

BHO is a phony centrist; he wants people to believe that he's a centrist so he can get elected. He's about as "centrist" as Bill Ayres, Rev. Wright, and Pfather Pfleger.

Course he is and I'm the first to say so. I'll go further than that - he's a covert Marxist. However, this is not the issue I raised. My point is that Arr deserves courtesy simply because his posts are courteous.

405 Typicalwhitey  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:55:05am

Obama ad says McCain is lying

I have to wonder how many of Obama's inner circle are posters on Kos?
This push to call McCain a lier has been the mantra over there every since Gov. Palin came on board.

He will be a loser if he is taking advice from kos.

406 debutaunt  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:55:14am

re: #277 midwestgak

/////right?

hahahahahahhahahhaha

407 turn  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:55:25am

re: #93 lawhawk

Well, that settles it.

The world wants Obama.

Memo to world: You don't get to vote for Our President. We do.

re: #98 JHW

Any of our Canadian friends here today? I saw this article, from the CBC, via Kate McMillan's blog, Small Dead Animals. The writer of the piece, subsidized by Canadian tax money,goes off the rails, foaming at the mouth unhinged at a Vice-Presidential candidate in a foreign election. It is nearly as nasty as Daily Kos. So much for Women's Liberation if you happen to be a conservative, self-made woman. The hypocrisy of the liberal elites never fails to dig deeper and deeper.
A Mighty Wind Blows Through Republican Convention

You have to read this slimy article to really grasp how deranged some of the media gate-keepers are getting over Gov. Palin's nomination.

I don't know how the hell you smart lizards find this stuff, but keep up the great work. I can't add much to what's already been said upthread other than to emphasize I too sense the death knell of the dems being rung by the by the far-far left.

408 WrathofG-d  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:56:04am

re: #399 sparrowlake

Y'all bring back slavery and segregation while y'all are at it.

I never advocated such a thing; nor would I. That being said, I would give more leway to individual rights. (even the right to be an intollerant s.o.b.) I would not allow for slavery however. There are some (but very few) rights that people just don't have. Enslaving another person is one of those rights an individual does not have.

I'm not sure how you went from States Rights to slavery though.

409 MandyManners  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:56:46am

re: #379 Vergeltung

Not really.

410 Sir Lurksalot  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:56:56am

Juan Cole?

What's next? A scathing expose by Sami Al-Arian?

411 Age Of Freedom  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:57:13am

re: #361 zombie

EXACTLY.

I've worked in bookstores. Mostly, they simply don't even order any conservative books to begin with. What, do I run around crying "censorship!"?

The Wasilla town library was very very small, with room for a few thousand books. You can't have every book ever published on the shelves. You have to choose. Who chooses? Every time the left-wing librarian failed to order this-or-that book, did the town scream "You're banning books!"? Every time she purposely ordered some envelope-pushing kids' book with obscenities or sex, was she punished for "banning" all the books she didn't order that lacked obscenities?

The whole issue is laughable.

If I walked into, say, the Berkeley Public Library and put a copy of Jesus Loves George Bush in the kids's section, you can guarantee the librarians would remove it instantly. But, you see, that doesn't count as "banning," because...because...well, because left-wingers are incapaoable of doing anything bad!

God it's so true.
I also noticed that talking politics, liberals think pure ill of republicans and their supporters, depicting right-wingers as violent, racist and red-necks. Not only that, EVERY republican president and administration was always a failure and exactly the opposite for the democrats is nothing but truth. Clinton, Jummah were all perfect, nothing was bad, with lots of "in facts" emitting millions of goal posts.

412 Nevergiveup  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:57:19am

Is it my imagination or is LGF unusually busy today?

413 WrathofG-d  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:57:33am

re: #402 Silhouette

You would think Dems, with all their Union membership, who understand no one changes the light bulbs but the light bulb union, and no one hammers a nail except the hammer union, would understand that lawmakers make the laws, and judges don't.

Funny, because its true! I think they understand it, they just think that their wants are more important that the separation of powers.

414 lifeofthemind  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:57:50am

Afternoon. how go the wars?

415 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:58:26am

re: #393 jpkoch


Obama the Pragmatist demanded of the German Government that he be
allowed to give a Berlin Speech in front of that symbol of Prussian
aggression: The Brandenburg Gate. When the Germans refused, he gave his
speech in front of that other Prussian symbol of aggression: The
Victory Column. His enthusiasm for Prussian symbols continued with DNC
acceptance speech, which he gave in front of Styrofoam model eerily
resembling the Brandenburg Gate. What is it with him and the Prussians?

And, as buzzsawmonkey has said, Obama's color of blue in his campaign signs is Prussian Blue.

416 big steve  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:58:37am

re: #302 galloping granny

As Obama is completely incapable of ignoring anything that he considers a slight to his prestige. He cannot laugh anything off - no matter how minor it is. He is incapable of holding his tongue and simply must respond to everything.


Great point......six months ago Karl Rove said something interesting....he thought that Obama was really easy to keep off-balance and off-message. Your point is dead on.

417 scottishbuzzsaw  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:58:42am

re: #405 Typicalwhitey

“I mean, you can’t just make stuff up,” Obama said of a new McCain ad that says Palin “stopped the Bridge to Nowhere.” “You can’t just recreate yourself. You can’t just reinvent yourself. The American people aren’t stupid.”

The audacity of projection!

418 Arrr  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:58:46am

re: #343 Typicalwhitey

1. That doesn't bother me. I don't see it as a matter of earning - it's a matter of being qualified. I think Hillary would be a qualified vice-precident willing to step into the president's shoes, but I'm not sure she and Obama would work well together or if Bill could be kept in line. Biden didn't "earn" anything either. He was qualified, and he and Obama are perfect together.

2. I don't consider it wasted, so the answer is no. Invesco field was a statement that had to be made. And Obama does need the Secret Service.

3. I understand how galling it can be, time and polls will tell (I know Palin's support among women is up now, but you really have to sit back and see if trends continue). But for the sake of tu quoque, welcome to politics. Sarah Palin's speech (hell, the entire Republican convention) was galling to a lot of Obama supporters. Obama raised a whole lot of cash after her speech.

4. I don't believe Obama has one tenth the experience of McCain. I believe he is more qualified to be president. Michael Scheuer is more experienced with al-Qaeda than anybody else in this country, but he is in no way qualified to defend our country. David Petraeus had very little experience, but he's probably one of the greatest generals to have ever lived, a strategic genius, and a national treasure.

5. When it comes to Islamists that cannot be reasoned with (e.g. al-Qaeda, AQI, the Taliban, etc), Obama's policy will be no different than John McCain's - as soon as they're in the crosshairs, you pull the trigger. When it comes to Islamists who have, for whatever reason, embraced the political process, I believe McCain and Obama would talk with them just as the Bush administration finally relented and began to open up relations with Iran.

419 JHW  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:59:03am

re: #274 Arrr

Ok, that deserves a response. Her views on abortion are well known, not so much the other 3 things you mentioned, they're the ones filtered through others' self-serving distortions rather than anything more than an offhand remark or two from her.
Creationism...Debunked...Sliming Sarah Palin from Newsweek

Palin's Religion From ABC
extract

It is clear that her deep religious faith permeates both her personal and public life. She even preaches at times in her home church, the Wasilla Bible Church, a low-key congregation that sits on folding chairs in a large new church down a dirt road at the edge of town.

Pray for our military men and women who are striving to do what is right ... that our leaders, our national leaders are sending them out on a task that is from God," Palin says in one video that has surfaced on the Internet.

I don't particularly see anything "scary" in that, that exact kind of talk has been the staple of virtually all US presidents including ones like JFK, Lincoln,Roosevelt, on and on. It's about as threatening as the Pledge of Allegiance. It's not like she's wanting to bring on Armageddon as some of the smears have it. Hardly evidence that she's going to be a wild eyed fanatic hurrying to see the "end-times" appear.

On the Global Warming thing, I'll defer to others, but surely you are aware there is intense criticism on the whole global warming thing from all sides of the political spectrum. Opposition to an Endangered Species listing for an increasing population of polar bears is hardly the same as anti-environmentalism. Others have pretended to know her views on this, just as in religion. As I said, might it not be better to hear them directly from her, rather than self serving critics who are not above the wildest distortions.

420 turn  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:59:08am

re: #403 WriterMom

Hmmm. I guess white women are good enough for adultry-according to Rev. Wright.

Hey writermom, the link you supplied this morning to the excellent piece on Palin is worth noting again:

[Link: www.cbc.ca...]

421 Nancy  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:59:27am

re: #385 WrathofG-d

Several years ago, didn't the "Jane Doe" identify who she was and stated that she regretted ever being talked into that lawsuit?

I don't recall the details but I do remember her saying she was pressured into is and regretted it.

422 galloping granny  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 10:59:46am

re: #403 WriterMom

Hmmm. I guess white women are good enough for adultry-according to Rev. Wright.

Let me give you a quote from a "history textbook" for the 9-12 crowd that I recently ordered: From Decades of the 20th Century (Stephen Feinstein) speaking of a black boxer during the 1910-1920 period:

Not only was he an outstanding athlete, but Jack Johnson (at right) displayed the kind of pride most African Americans longed for. He flaunted his talent and his controversial relationships with white women, to the disgust of the many racist white Southerners.

BTW, every single time white Americans are mentioned in this book, "white" is preceded by "racist." You know where the book ended up, don't you? And how many more in the series I ordered?

423 mfarmer1  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 11:00:07am

I think it's time for some Palin Haiku:

Home made moose meat stew
Kawasaki rimless cool
M.S.M panic

424 Killgore Trout  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 11:00:27am

MPACUK: Appease the Muslims or you'll get what you deserve.......
Press Release: Walthamstow Terror Trial

The Walthamstow terror trials have ended with a verdict finding three men guilty of conspiracy to murder involving home-made bombs. MPACUK condemn this plot as horrific and totally un-Islamic.

The trial however, reinforces the already undeniable evidence that foreign policy is a significant contributor to radicalising young British Muslims. The government’s continual resistance to accept that fact is undermining local efforts in countering.

425 debutaunt  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 11:00:36am

re: #317 Outrider

Yes it is, Sarge.

426 big steve  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 11:00:43am

re: #414 lifeofthemind

Afternoon. how go the wars?


Were kicking around somebody named arrr for daring to give a reasoned (but wrong) arguement for supporting Obama.

427 Nevergiveup  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 11:00:54am

Print Email Add to My Stories

World wants Obama as president: poll

Posted 5 hours 4 minutes ago

US Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama may be struggling to nudge ahead of his Republican rival in polls at home, but people across the world want him in the White House, a BBC poll said.

[Link: www.abc.net.au...]

"Struggling tonudge ahead"? How about sinking like rock?

428 classicLib  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 11:01:03am

re: #384 Hard Right

I thought that was a strange thing to say considering your name.
My apologies. BTW, don't forget the sarcasm tag: /

My bad. Still learning the ropes around here.

429 Ojoe  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 11:01:23am

re: #423 mfarmer1

...DNC Panic

430 debutaunt  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 11:01:24am

re: #322 Silhouette

The hardest part was when we all had to grow peanuts in the 70s.

An acre of peanuts for all.

431 galloping granny  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 11:01:31am

re: #404 Wild Knight

Course he is and I'm the first to say so. I'll go further than that - he's a covert Marxist. However, this is not the issue I raised. My point is that Arr deserves courtesy simply because his posts are courteous.

I don't believe he is a covert Marxist at all. His Marxist thought is overtly apparent in much of what comes out of his mouth and nearly everything he has written. The only way he could be more clear about his belief system would be to admit membership in the communist party.

432 Pullus Iulius  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 11:01:42am

I was glad to hear from a west coast moonbat friend that their new meme is that McCain will win because - wait for it - racism doesn't get registered in opinion polls. That is; people will tell a pollster what they think they should say, but will vote their actual (racist, of course) feelings in the booth. Demented thinking of course, and they'll be crowing some other nonsense if 0bama wins, but one of the first steps in being a loser is thinking and acting like one.

433 MandyManners  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 11:01:52am

re: #418 Arrr

The brain...it hurtz.

434 mfarmer1  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 11:02:15am

Oops...looks like Haiku is already in full swing. Sorry.

435 Killgore Trout  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 11:02:58am

MPACUK thread: Palin and Fundamentalists - fellow travellers?

The religious right, be it Christian, Muslim or Jew, have very similar beliefs. Abdul Hakim Murad made this point on Sharai TV that the natural allies of Muslims are other religious right wingers like Palin (he didn't say Palin but other consevative religious groups). I seem to remember from a while back that the majority of Muslims in the US voted for Bush when he was first elected, unsuprising given the many areas where they think the same on social policy.

Huh.

436 Ojoe  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 11:03:10am

re: #427 Nevergiveup

The world wants BHO?

Another clue, better vote for McCain/Palin.

437 big steve  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 11:03:16am

re: #432 Pullus Iulius

I was glad to hear from a west coast moonbat friend that their new meme is that McCain will win because - wait for it - racism doesn't get registered in opinion polls. That is; people will tell a pollster what they think they should say, but will vote their actual (racist, of course) feelings in the booth. Demented thinking of course, and they'll be crowing some other nonsense if 0bama wins, but one of the first steps in being a loser is thinking and acting like one.


This country can truly shed its racists past when a black man can run for President and lose simply because he is not the most qualified.

438 WriterMom  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 11:03:19am

re: #420 turn

TURN!

That's not my linky. That is the awful, America-bashing harpy at the CBC. I linked to Blatch, at the Globe and Mail.

439 jester6  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 11:03:45am

Does anyone know of a live video feed from Berkley. I gotta thing for rioting lefties.

440 WrathofG-d  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 11:03:49am

re: #418 Arrr


ARRR

Per your last paragraph are you insinuating that Hamas, Hiz'b'allah, and the PLO "can be reasoned with"?

If so, how.

441 RickZ  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 11:04:41am

re: #177 Arrr

Interesting post. I didn't know which way to ding.

442 Ojoe  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 11:04:53am

re: #435 Killgore Trout

Islamic fundamentalists blow people up

Christain fundamentalists are pro life

not the same

443 Nancy  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 11:04:57am

re: #410 Sir Lurksalot

And today.......what a surprise .....a BBC poll --the WORLD supports Obama!
Sort of like the online poll where the world overwhelmingly supported Ron Paul! As they did John Kerry as well!

Attention world: Your votes don't count. We don't care who you want!

Has anyone ever seen a poll asking persons worldwide to vote on ANY one running for office in any other country except the U.S.A?

444 jill e  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 11:05:00am
445 WrathofG-d  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 11:05:49am

re: #421 Nancy

I recall something like that too, but I'm not too sure of its importance.

The law is wrong whether the Jane Doe is proud of what she did or not.

Most of what the Executive, Legislature, and Judiciary do is to get themselves more authority and power. I highly suggest anyone interested read the origins of the SCOTUS and then take a good look at where it is, and what it does now. You will be shocked!

446 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 11:05:57am
447 Silhouette  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 11:05:59am

re: #422 galloping granny

BTW, every single time white Americans are mentioned in this book, "white" is preceded by "racist."

While bemoaning one bigotry, mostly defeated now Thank God, they perpetuate a larger one, that has no end in sight.

448 Lizard by the Bay  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 11:06:11am

re: #432 Pullus Iulius

I was glad to hear from a west coast moonbat friend that their new meme is that McCain will win because - wait for it - racism doesn't get registered in opinion polls. That is; people will tell a pollster what they think they should say, but will vote their actual (racist, of course) feelings in the booth. Demented thinking of course, and they'll be crowing some other nonsense if 0bama wins, but one of the first steps in being a loser is thinking and acting like one.

Dems even have a name for it. they call it the "Bradley effect", which seems to fit any scenario where a black candidate does better in polls than he/she does at the ballot box. The concept that perhaps liberal poll spin and a media that needs to promote racial diversity above all other concerns contribute more to the "Bradley effect" than actual voter "racism" is of course never considered.

449 Hard Right  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 11:06:22am

re: #443 Nancy

And today.......what a surprise .....a BBC poll --the WORLD supports Obama!
Sort of like the online poll where the world overwhelmingly supported Ron Paul! As they did John Kerry as well!

Attention world: Your votes don't count. We don't care who you want!

Has anyone ever seen a poll asking persons worldwide to vote on ANY one running for office in any other country except the U.S.A?

Iran supports Barack...as does Cuba...China...Russia...Iran.... See a pattern?

450 DaddyO  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 11:06:39am

re: #423 mfarmer1

0bama Blues:

Barack's got something he always had
Got them BS blues and got 'em bad
MSM sycophants overplayed their hand
and McCain's now set to rule the land

451 galloping granny  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 11:06:40am

re: #411 Age Of Freedom

God it's so true.
I also noticed that talking politics, liberals think pure ill of republicans and their supporters, depicting right-wingers as violent, racist and red-necks. Not only that, EVERY republican president and administration was always a failure and exactly the opposite for the democrats is nothing but truth. Clinton, Jummah were all perfect, nothing was bad, with lots of "in facts" emitting millions of goal posts.

How do they explain Lincoln?

452 WrathofG-d  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 11:06:59am

re: #435 Killgore Trout

MPACUK thread: Palin and Fundamentalists - fellow travellers?


Huh.

Fine, there might be similarities....but it is the major differences that actually count!

453 Nancy  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 11:07:12am

re: #427 Nevergiveup

LOoks like our posts "crossed" in cyberspace.

My reaction when I saw that this morning: what makes them think we care who they want to be OUR president?

454 jester6  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 11:07:19am

re: #432 Pullus Iulius

I think your friend has a point. Whether you call it political correctness or racism I'll bet Obama picks up a point or three in the polls simply because people are afraid to say they do not want to vote for him. It's actually a pretty well known phenomenon amongst pollsters. But considering how charged the subject of race is no one wants to talk about it.

455 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 11:07:35am
456 Typicalwhitey  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 11:07:43am

re: #418 Arrr


I disagree with you Arrr, but appreciate your staying and posting.
It will be an interesting 2 months.

Welcome.

457 J.D.  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 11:08:14am

re: #276 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

Just more to love. Like I say, why settle for six-pack abs when you can have the whole keg?

lol

458 midwestgak  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 11:09:30am

re: #437 big steve

This country can truly shed its racists past when a black man can run for President and lose simply because he is not the most qualified.

Nothing to do with racism, but did you know this country elected a man inspite of his under qualified stance?

Carter IIRC I knew that you did.
:)

459 Nancy  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 11:09:37am

re: #448 Lizard by the Bay

I am really tired of the "race card." The only one who ever brings it up is Obama and his supporters.

I wouldn't care if he were purple, I wouldn't vote for him.

460 lifeofthemind  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 11:09:49am

re: #427 Nevergiveup

World wants Obama as president: poll?

If "The World" wants him so much by all means let him go out there and do some good. Maybe the military can grant him a special exemption and he can go out with the team that really does do good. He didn't want that? Oh, never mind. Then he can just go far far away and write when he finds work.

"Struggling to nudge ahead"? How about sinking like rock?

When your parachute isn't opening be sure to enjoy that great view when you look left. Guaranteed you will never see anything like it again.

461 Edgar  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 11:10:58am

re: #459 Nancy

I wouldn't care if he were purple, I wouldn't vote for him.

I would. That's just weird.

462 Hard Right  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 11:11:49am

The fact that Obama is black is one of the few things I have no problem with!

463 Silhouette  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 11:12:10am

re: #451 galloping granny

How do they explain Lincoln?

They explain that the parties have switched sides in the past century, and that they are like the Republicans of 1860, whereas we are just the same as the Democrats.

464 J.S.  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 11:12:59am

re: #342 Arrr

What evidence can you provide that the support for HAMAS is only a "tiny, tiny minority" (to borrow an oft repeated phrase from the Islamists here in Canada)? Where is the evidence that radicals are a "minority" in Gaza? As I laugh...If that were the case why has HAMAS won an overwhelming majority of votes in that January election (when all the Leftist, Pacifists, and Peace Now were exclaiming and predicting that HAMAS would be trounced by the "moderate" Palestinians...go read that former Peace Now founder's book -- Amos Oz -- in "How to Cure a Radical" who wrote about "how to deal with the radicals" -- you sound just like a Peace Now supporter, btw. Well, the HAMAS victory proved Oz and his supporters were deeply out-to-lunch...their predictions all proved terribly wrong. So I figure you're out there in La-La-Cuckoo-land. Might also note that I hardly figure that all Arabs/Muslims are so under the jackboot of the Fundamentalists -- in Gaza they had a free and fair election... They chose their terrorist leader. That's who they wanted in office. They like to be under Islamic rule -- can you comprehend this?

465 galloping granny  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 11:13:49am

re: #463 Silhouette

They explain that the parties have switched sides in the past century, and that they are like the Republicans of 1860, whereas we are just the same as the Democrats.

HAHAHAHA! OKAY!

466 Killgore Trout  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 11:14:04am

re: #452 WrathofG-d

I'm surprised that the MPAC commenters aren't offended.

467 mfarmer1  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 11:14:15am

re: #450 DaddyO

0bama Blues:

Barack's got something he always had
Got them BS blues and got 'em bad
MSM sycophants overplayed their hand
and McCain's now set to rule the land

Like dig it man...like a beatnik Haiku mix...like I'm snapping my fingers while searching for my bongos.

468 Hard Right  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 11:15:01am

re: #463 Silhouette

They explain that the parties have switched sides in the past century, and that they are like the Republicans of 1860, whereas we are just the same as the Democrats.

Exactly. When you point out that the Dems were against desegregation and the Reps were for it, they say those segregationists left the Dem party and became Reps. From that point forward the Reps were racist.
It's not true, but that's how leftists think. If reality doesn't fit your views, change reality.

469 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 11:15:03am

re: #451 galloping granny

How do they explain Lincoln?

Lincoln was a tool of Big Business!
No kidding, I had a lefty co-worker tell me this once - the Civil War wasn't fought over slavery or seccession, but as a land grab for Big Railroad!

470 lifeofthemind  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 11:15:11am

re: #432 Pullus Iulius

I was glad to hear from a west coast moonbat friend that their new meme is that McCain will win because - wait for it - racism doesn't get registered in opinion polls. That is; people will tell a pollster what they think they should say, but will vote their actual (racist, of course) feelings in the booth. Demented thinking of course, and they'll be crowing some other nonsense if 0bama wins, but one of the first steps in being a loser is thinking and acting like one.

The "Bradley Effect" is real. More than race is involved, it is a defense against the snobbery and possible exposure to retribution by a questioner that you do not trust.

471 midwestgak  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 11:16:02am

re: #462 Hard Right

The fact that Obama is black is one of the few things I have no problem with!

One of the things I have a problem with may appear petty, but I cannot fathom an American President by the name of Barack Hussien Obama. It's not ice cream and apple pie sounding.

472 NC State of Mind  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 11:16:42am

re: #449 Hard Right

Iran supports Barack...as does Cuba...China...Russia...Iran.... See a pattern?

Yep. And I can almost guarantee the Czech Republic, Poland, and other eastern European countries would at least equal America's support for McCain. Who would you rather be aligned with?

473 classicLib  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 11:17:24am

re: #470 lifeofthemind

The "Bradley Effect" is real. More than race is involved, it is a defense against the snobbery and possible exposure to retribution by a questioner that you do not trust.

Exactly. In fact I look forward to my state, PA, turning red this November.

474 jester6  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 11:17:47am

#411 Age Of Freedom


I also noticed that talking politics, liberals think pure ill of republicans and their supporters, depicting right-wingers as violent, racist and red-necks.

I think you are correct. And I think the big reason their attacks on Palin are failing is because many of those attacks presume the reader is the violent-racist-red-neck-strawman they have created in their mind.

For example, when right wing pastors praise the way the Palin family is handling an unplanned pregnancy the MSM charges hypocrisy. The people hearing the MSM charge don't see hypocrisy, they see an MSM which never understood the values of those right wing pastors in the first place.

And for the record, I have seen that mistake made by liberal bloggers as well as "conservative" commentators in the WSJ recently. The MSM does not understand people in fly over country. They have more in common with someone living in a major city like London or Paris or Berlin then they do with someone living in St. Louis or Wasilla(sp?).

475 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 11:17:51am

re: #441 RickZ

Interesting post. I didn't know which way to ding.

Charles, we need a sideways ding feature!

476 sparrowlake  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 11:18:20am

re: #408 WrathofG-d

I'm not sure how you went from States Rights to slavery though.

"States Rights" was the codeword for opposition to abolition.

477 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 11:18:31am
478 Arrr  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 11:18:58am

re: #440 WrathofG-d

As soon as Hamas was elected into office, there was a halt on suicide bombings that lasted for a pretty long time. Islamic Jihad decided to carry out a few suicide bombings in order to upstage them (which is ironic considering that Hamas did the same to the PLO when the PLO was in power). Eventually, a Hamas terrorist broke the de facto moratorium on suicide bombings, and Hamas elements did not stop firing rockets into Israel and even killed and kidnapped an Israeli soldier. But think about it.

Once they were in power, they became accountable. Their violence and vitriol subsided. They understood, to a degree, that their actions would have consequences, and that once in power Israel knows where to aim if the shit hits the fan. After the kidnapping of Gilad Shalit, Israel rightfully kicked the shit out of them (a learning experience if there ever was one).

Do you see where this is going? Unlike al-Qaeda and the Taliban, Hamas, Hizballah, and the PLO not only understand cause and effect, it moderates their behavior. As insane as their beliefs and platforms are, if they, like Nasrallah, are willing to admit that "had they known the scale of the response, they would not have carried it out", it's the first baby step towards either talking and losing face, or not talking and falling flat on their faces. Deterrence is a spectrum, and not all Islamist groups operate the same way.

479 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 11:19:22am

re: #476 sparrowlake

"States Rights" was the codeword for opposition to abolition.

"Was" is the key word there.

480 Hard Right  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 11:20:07am

re: #472 NC State of Mind

Yep. And I can almost guarantee the Czech Republic, Poland, and other eastern European countries would at least equal America's support for McCain. Who would you rather be aligned with?

Exactly. When the avowed enemies of your country are openly rooting for a candidate, that's a massive red flag.

481 RickZ  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 11:20:12am

re: #310 Honorary Yooper

You don't know the first flippin' thing about Obama. He has been brought up in the culture of corruption that passes for Chicago politics amongst the Daleys, th Strogers, and others. His polticial mentor in the Illinois Senate was Emil Jones (D-ComEd). Jones is so deep in ComEd's pockets, he can find the lint. Let's talk about William Ayres, son of former ComEd CEO Thomas Ayres. Bill Ayres introduced Obama to the poltical world at his house, and did I mention Ayres is a home-grown terrorist? Then we have Rezko (need I say more?).

Nadhmi Auchi.

482 Outrider  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 11:21:00am

The argument against Sen Obama is real easy.

He has made many campaign pledges; according to National Journal as of 20th August 208, it came to some 13 pages of very small print. (I didn't count them) But, anyone in this forum is capable of making campaign promises. Is Sen Obama capable of enacting ~any~of these promises? Based on his previous, limited track record, the short answer is no. Any vote he has given that isn't merely "present" went right down party lines. He has not shown any ability to forge alliances or compromise in order to achieve results.

At present he will inherit a Democrat majority in the House and Senate, but this is subject to change. Consider also there are not as many liberal Democrats in either the House or Senate as it would take for him to enact most of his agenda. The last two years of inactivity have more than demonstrated this by contradicting the many threats Pelosi, Reid, and others were making prior to the election. This would require working with these Democrats and the Republicans in order to achieve any results. Can he do this? I've seen no evidence to suggest he can.

Considering this is his first real contested election, he has hung in there longer before self disintegrating than I would have thought. But, we are seeing it taking place before our eyes right now.

483 midwestgak  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 11:21:28am

re: #473 classicLib

Exactly. In fact I look forward to my state, PA, turning red this November.

My state of IL is dark blue, but it went red in '80 and '84. I would like a repeat of that in '08 and '12. Is there any one out there that would like to join me in chanting, repeat, repeat, repeat...

484 Iron Fist  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 11:21:52am

re: #304 The Other Les

Oh, I could see the MSM making that arguement. If McCain didn't see himself stepping down before his time was up, he wouldn't have picked Sarah Palin, he'd have picked Joe Lieberman as VP.

That's what has the Press really pissed. They thought they'd have a Democrat on both sides of the ticket. that way they couldn't lose. How dare McCain pick this, this woman to be VP?

They've positively gone over the edge about it. The worst thing is that Sarah Palin will probably be the first woman President. That will positively eat them up.

485 semper gumbi  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 11:22:32am

re: #382 midwestgak


Here's a link from NRO regarding her view of whetehr she would ban abortion if Roe v Wade is overturned.

Byron York at NRO

486 sparrowlake  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 11:24:18am

re: #435 Killgore Trout

MPACUK thread: Palin and Fundamentalists - fellow travellers?


Huh.

Breaking News: Palin polls 90+% support among Muslim Americans./
BWAHAHAHAHAHA

487 RickZ  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 11:24:47am

re: #346 Spenser (with an S)

Exactly. Although I think to be fair, isn't he the 2nd most liberal?

Nope. Obama's the top of the liberal heap in the Senate. Biden comes in at number 3.

488 sparrowlake  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 11:25:40am

re: #475 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

Charles, we need a sideways ding feature!

That would be a dong.

489 midwestgak  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 11:27:08am

re: #485 semper gumbi

Here's a link from NRO regarding her view of whetehr she would ban abortion if Roe v Wade is overturned.

Byron York at NRO

Thanks semper

490 Lizard by the Bay  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 11:28:41am

re: #488 sparrowlake

That would be a dong.

Dong?

491 Outrider  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 11:29:04am

re: #418 Arrr

2. I don't consider it wasted, so the answer is no. Invesco field was a statement that had to be made. And Obama does need the Secret Service.


What statement was that? I am pretentious? I am an egoist? We need an enormous pep rally, perhaps not exactly along the lines of Nurnberg, but not exactly a high school pep rally either? I know how to squander money on theatrics?

492 CommonSense  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 11:29:15am

re: #110 Miss Molly


That's what happens when your (the Democratic) platform is as weak as they could possibly come.

493 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 11:31:37am
494 sparrowlake  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 11:32:07am

re: #479 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

"Was" is the key word there.

Fair enough, but would the religious right be content with pregnant women crossing state lines to obtain legal abortions?

495 Arrr  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 11:33:03am

re: #464 J.S.

I never said "tiny, tiny minority". A significant minority. That's pretty damning of the Palestinians. It's the middle ground between "all Muslims support radical Islam" and "a tiny drop in the bucket support radical Islam".

The rest who voted for them voted either to spite Fatah for their corruption or because they fell for some of Hamas' more "benign" propaganda. The Gazans, though, are figuring out what Hamas is all about - the New York Times had an interesting piece about culture in the Gaza Strip. Support for Hamas has already dropped, considering Hamas revealing their true colors.

As for not responding to other posts (especially #279), I'm simply not used to posting here, this place moves so fast, and #279 in particular requires a lengthy, thoughtful response.

I didn't come to my conclusions on a whim or on the belief that Obama is the messiah. I thought long and hard, analyzed both candidates, assessed where I agreed and disagreed with them, assessed where they were being politicians and where they were actually speaking what they really believed, what effect their being in power would have on world affairs, and ultimately came to the conclusion that Obama would be the better choice for Chief Executive. In a rapid fire environment like the LGF comments, I can't quickly answer something that requires pages and pages to get my point across. Support for or against a candidate should not be just short and to the point. The quick summary of why you are for or against a candidate should simply be the tip of a much larger iceberg of nuance and extrapolation.

496 Outrider  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 11:33:42am

re: #432 Pullus Iulius

I was glad to hear from a west coast moonbat friend that their new meme is that McCain will win because - wait for it - racism doesn't get registered in opinion polls. That is; people will tell a pollster what they think they should say, but will vote their actual (racist, of course) feelings in the booth. Demented thinking of course, and they'll be crowing some other nonsense if 0bama wins, but one of the first steps in being a loser is thinking and acting like one.

Who knew? I thought it was because I am a conservative Republican and have been since 1972 when I first voted, and Sen Obama is so far to the left I can not wrap myself around any of his socialist ideas.

497 WrathofG-d  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 11:34:26am

re: #478 Arrr

I whole heartedly disagree with your assessment, and am completely offended at your callous disregard for the safety of Israeli's, and their equal right to live in peace, and free from daily attacks. A rocket attack against civilians is not morally better than a suicide attack. Terrorism by rocket is Terrorism the same as Terrorism by suicide attack is Terrorism.

You are also incorrect in your belief that suicide attacks ended because of the takeover of Aza by Hamas. Hamas still attempts to attck Israel by suicide attack, but they are stopped by the fences surrounding Aza, and the fence being build in Judea/Samaria. It has nothing, to very little to do with Hamas being "accountable".

You give Hamas too much credit and look them through your own ignorant Westernized prism. Hamas and Hiz'b'allah are no different than AQ. It only comes down to will, and timing. Right now Hamas, and Hiz'b'allah are following the path of Jihad, as instructed by Mohammad, and are in the "victory" phase, where they get through negotiation what they were not getting through violence. When they belive that violence is necessary to get them what they want (Islamic rule over Israel, then the United States, then Spain, then all of what was the Caliph) they will go back to it.

AQ also has not attacked the U.S. in a while...is this because they understand "responsibility" and thus should be negotiated with by the U.S.? Or is it maybe that we have them pinned, and they are instead in teh planning phase.

These Islamists are fighting a 1,000 year war. They are patient. They are planning.

If you think that negotiating with Hamas or Hiz'b'allah is a good idea, i'm very worried for you.

498 Strike Hornet  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 11:36:54am

re: #247 Ford_Prefect

Seriously? Based on what?

re: #209 The Other Les

Have you SEEN Hillary's legs?

UGHHH! What a horrid sight...BOTH of them...
I will say, the acting like they actually like each other is worth an Academy Award though...

499 lostlakehiker  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 11:37:27am

re: #64 reno911

What happens, after decades of trying, two sides just can't agree on fundamental issues like:

- Are higher taxes good?

- Are we at war with Islamic radicals?

- Should people be judged on their merits or their skin color?

- Is a larger federal government good or bad?

- Should babies be murdered when it is convenient for the mother?

- Is America a force for good or evil?

- Should we tap our own resources in an effect to become energy independent?

- Should our borders be open or regulated?

There is no middle ground on these issues. One side either prevails or one side loses or there is a stalemate.

I guess the question is "How do you break the stalemate?"

(1) It depends.

(2) Sort of.

(3) No.

(4) No, but a fetus is not a baby, and abortion is not murder.

(5) Good, mostly. Lamentable exceptions from time to time.

(6) We cannot solve our energy problem by tapping conventional resources. Everybody has sunlight, and we have plenty of wind. We also have enough uranium. Stopgap measures like drilling are a way to tide us over. It's like oxygen bottles on a mountain. One must descend before the bottles run dry.

(7) Regulated. Duh! But should they be closed? Andrew Grove is an immigrant. Before him, Andrew Carnegie. Albert Einstein, for that matter. We should remain open to immigrants of energy and talent---and they shouldn't have to be Nobel Prize caliber.

We resolve these questions three ways. We can drift to where the problem has gone away or been accidentally resolved or been resolved by some technological advance or outside event. We can vote and whoever wins, wins. Or we can sit on a stalemate, and resolve the matter in one of the first two ways later.

500 Nevergiveup  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 11:37:58am

re: #453 Nancy

LOoks like our posts "crossed" in cyberspace.

My reaction when I saw that this morning: what makes them think we care who they want to be OUR president?

What makes them Think?

501 Strike Hornet  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 11:38:37am

re: #247 Ford_Prefect

Seriously? Based on what?

His "redistribution of wealth" policies?
/

502 lostlakehiker  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 11:38:41am

re: #154 Outrider

Pelosi would make a tolerably good president. She does have the experience, she doesn't have a long rap sheet when it comes to corruption, and she's not a power freak.

503 Outrider  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 11:40:08am

re: #468 Hard Right

Exactly. When you point out that the Dems were against desegregation and the Reps were for it, they say those segregationists left the Dem party and became Reps. From that point forward the Reps were racist.
It's not true, but that's how leftists think. If reality doesn't fit your views, change reality.

I wonder how they account for so many yellow dog Democrats that are racist. Here in Coastal Georgia, the KKK is still hanging around. They are not Republicans, but proud Democrats-as were their Daddies and their Daddies Daddy and so on.......Wonder if they got that memo they were supposed to have switched parties?

504 Son of the Black Dog  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 11:40:59am

re: #357 itellu3times

Y'all see the "Dear Mr. Obama" McCain ad?

Yes, if you haven't seen this ad, watch it NOW.

505 Arrr  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 11:41:04am

re: #493 buzzsawmonkey

They're not fully accountable yet, but they are capable of getting there and have made small steps with the sword of retaliation hanging over their heads. Hamas pre-elected was far worse than Hamas in power.

The genius of Petraeus was how efficiently he categorized certain groups into "reconcileable" and "irreconcileable", pushed them into either direction, and subsequently dealt with them. Some of the most insane Islamic lunatics who were killing our men and women in uniform are now kicking the shit out of AQI with American support.

506 Sifty  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 11:41:06am

re: #502 lostlakehiker

forgot the sarc tag here

507 HippieforLife  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 11:42:24am

re: #177 Arrr

Care to expand on why you think Sarah Palin does not belong in the White House?

Because she is a woman, because she is a Christian, because she is a mother, because she lacks "experience"?

Makes me wonder why you would support Obama. For the last 19 months he has gotten a paycheck for a job he never goes to and has spent a total of 143 days doing. Not exactly a mountain of experience.

508 sparrowlake  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 11:42:35am

re: #497 WrathofG-d
If you think that negotiating with Hamas or Hiz'b'allah is a good idea, i'm very worried for you.

Israel is being forced to surrender negotiate under American compulsion, and it is high time for Israel to "politely" remove the U.S. shotgun from its back.

509 pegcity  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 11:44:23am

re: #440 WrathofG-d

thats so easy, me and every other jew on earth kill ourselves.

510 WrathofG-d  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 11:45:10am

re: #505 Arrr

They're not fully accountable yet, but they are capable of getting there and have made small steps with the sword of retaliation hanging over their heads. Hamas pre-elected was far worse than Hamas in power.

The genius of Petraeus was how efficiently he categorized certain groups into "reconcileable" and "irreconcileable", pushed them into either direction, and subsequently dealt with them. Some of the most insane Islamic lunatics who were killing our men and women in uniform are now kicking the shit out of AQI with American support.

You are so behind the "know what's up" curve its silly. Your theory was tested with Hamas from the get go. Read the History from when Israel worked with Hamas and bolstered them to counter the PLO. Israel was proven wrong. After that I suggest you read about Tikkiyah, and the Hamas charter.

I think you mean well...you are just WRONG! And for Israelis, that would = DEAD wrong.

511 pegcity  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 11:46:53am

re: #497 WrathofG-d

look at what negotiating with Hez has got lebanon, they have for all intensive purposes given their country over to Iran.

512 WrathofG-d  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 11:47:29am

re: #508 sparrowlake

If you think that negotiating with Hamas or Hiz'b'allah is a good idea, i'm very worried for you.

Israel is being forced to surrender negotiate under American compulsion, and it is high time for Israel to "politely" remove the U.S. shotgun from its back.

A couple of days ago (maybe last week) there was a wondeful quote from Menechem Begin to Biden regarding this issue. Pretty much Begin told Biden (who was trying to blackmail Israel with money) that he appreciates everything the U.S. does to help Israel, but Israel is an independent nation of proud Jews with a 3,000 year history, and Jews will no longer be used as American pawns.

513 WrathofG-d  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 11:48:50am

I also highly suggests that before anyone even begin to discuss the Arab-Israel conflict that they go look up: The PLO PHASED PLAN.

and read the Hamas Charter!

514 pegcity  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 11:50:30am

re: #513 WrathofG-d

this playbook always bites people in the ass, i can't think of once in history where it has been successfull.

515 galloping granny  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 11:52:47am

re: #469 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

Well the War Between the States wasn't fought over slavery and it wasn't fought over land either. re: #476 sparrowlake

"States Rights" was the codeword for opposition to abolition.

That is not true in the least. States Rights is the position that all matters not specifically allocated to the Federal government in the Constitution are matters that are under the specific control and authority of the individual states. Hardly a "code word" for abolition, states rights' cover things like marriage, abortion, property ownership, and much more. And if you look around you, you might discover that States Rights are very much at the fore today. Like here in Vermont where the state essentially tells the FDA to shove it and purchases drugs in Canada for Vermont citizens because of the much lower cost.

516 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 11:52:51am
517 hazzyday  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 11:54:40am

One of the products of true Fascism. Negatively sexualizing your opponent and their moral's. We see it in the far right in Europe.

I think there are a lot of young women in the country observing the political process as it media arm works over Gov. Palin. If the MSM gets away with their misogyny scott free it will probably dampen the women's movement in term of ability to reach political goals. But will probably also increase the membership.

I think the Republican party has shown that it is open to change and evolution about women's concerns. Country First. The Democrat's have not shown that. Obama first. We see the Republican party moving to new goals and the Democratic party retreating to morals that they held when they were against civil rights.

The old line feminism was just a reply to male chauvinism. People are moving past both concepts into more modern methods of working together.

518 galloping granny  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 11:55:11am

re: #507 HippieforLife

Care to expand on why you think Sarah Palin does not belong in the White House?

Because she is a woman, because she is a Christian, because she is a mother, because she lacks "experience"?

Makes me wonder why you would support Obama. For the last 19 months he has gotten a paycheck for a job he never goes to and has spent a total of 143 days doing. Not exactly a mountain of experience.

Not to mention the fact that we pay him exceedingly well to do just one thing: VOTE on business before the Senate on behalf of the American people, specifically those who reside in Illinois. Well over 100 times he has flatly refused to even do that.

519 HippieforLife  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 11:55:28am

re: #229 Typicalwhitey

I had heard on the radio this morning coming to work that Sarah does not live in the Governor's mansion because she prefers her own home.

Wouldn't that save the taxpayers of Alaska some money?

520 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 11:55:55am
521 pegcity  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 11:55:59am

re: #517 hazzyday

the womens movement is spearheaded by radical leftists feminists who are the ones leading the charge against Palin.

They are a dying movement and this could be the final nail in the cofin of their relevancy.

522 J.S.  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 11:56:55am

re: #495 Arrr

You've claimed that HAMAS is accountable? Oh, really? For what and to whom? Iran? Hezbollah?

Are you even vaguely aware as to why it is that the Quartet (along with Israel) does not recognize HAMAS? what are you? someone who supports negotiations with terrorists? as does your "Dear Leader" Obama?

Here's a quote from the Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs (in the event you need an update):

The international community has demanded that any Palestinian government must be committed to these three conditions [The Three Conditions are 1) recognizing Israel's right to exist, 2) renouncing terrorism and violence, and 3) accepting previous agreements and obligations, including the Roadmap]
and that "it should contain no member" who has not committed to them. Therefore, a unity government, which would include the extremists of Hamas, could not be a partner to peace.

The conditions set out by the Quartet, which Hamas continues to reject, are not obstacles to peace, but rather the basic tests by which the international community can determine whether a Palestinian government is capable of being a side to peace negotiations.

Were any government which refuses to meet these basic principles for peace to receive international legitimacy and support, this would be a grave setback for prospects of peace, and a betrayal of the genuine moderates, on both sides of the conflict, who truly believe in a two-state solution to the conflict and seek to make it a reality.

So, which of the three conditions has HAMAS met? Tell us.

523 Arrr  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 11:57:25am

re: #497 WrathofG-d

"I whole heartedly disagree with your assessment, and am completely offended at your callous disregard for the safety of Israeli's, and their equal right to live in peace, and free from daily attacks."

This is a strawman argument. I believe Israel has the right to live in peace, and use whatever means she believes necessary to achieve them. I was with Israel 100% during the 2006 Lebanon War, and I was with them 100% in their response to the Shilat kidnapping.

" A rocket attack against civilians is not morally better than a suicide attack. Terrorism by rocket is Terrorism the same as Terrorism by suicide attack is Terrorism."

I consider suicide terrorism to be a far greater evil. It's one thing to fire rockets into Israel with the desire to terrorize civilians, it's another for a mother to brainwash a child into becoming a human bomb that actively seeks out its prey. It's the difference between shooting someone from a distance and slitting their throat. Casual discussion about degrees of evil can be offensive and disturbing, but they do have relevance regarding the argument that Hamas can, ultimately, possibly be talked to.

"You give Hamas too much credit and look them through your own ignorant Westernized prism. Hamas and Hiz'b'allah are no different than AQ. It only comes down to will, and timing. Right now Hamas, and Hiz'b'allah are following the path of Jihad, as instructed by Mohammad, and are in the "victory" phase, where they get through negotiation what they were not getting through violence. When they belive that violence is necessary to get them what they want (Islamic rule over Israel, then the United States, then Spain, then all of what was the Caliph) they will go back to it."

I think the myth of monolithic Islamism is just as short-sighted as the myth of monolithic Communism. Osama bin Laden would never admit "had I known the scale of the response, I would not have ordered the attacks". Despite their bluster, I doubt Hizbollah will ever pull a stunt like that again. Hizbollah understands politics by other means, al-Qaeda does not. Also, the two groups would slaughter each other if given the chance.

Hamas has also been careful to snuff out AQ whenever it rears its head. They know what happens when you align your cause with al-Qaeda beyond words.

Hamas and Hizbollah are also regional players, the AQ movement is the one that seriously seeks a global Caliphate.

"AQ also has not attacked the U.S. in a while...is this because they understand "responsibility" and thus should be negotiated with by the U.S.? Or is it maybe that we have them pinned, and they are instead in teh planning phase."

AQ does not understand responsibility. The only way to deal with them is to hunt them down and destroy them to a man. They have not attacked us largely due to the success of the Bush Administration to keep us safe, they are pre-occupied with the wars in Iraq and Aghanistan, and American Muslims - unlike their European counterparts - are not as receptive to foreign extremists.

524 midwestgak  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 11:58:40am

re: #521 pegcity

They are a dying movement and this could be the final nail in the cofin of their relevancy.

And one more final "f" in coffin. :) I'm anul. sorry.

525 pegcity  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 11:59:45am

re: #522 J.S.

i wouldn't even bother like most on the left i find they are for the most part stealth antisemites who if given a chance will go on a tirade against Israel if they think they are in like company.

Israel can't do anything to please them and the palis are never responisble for their plight.

The left wants nothing more than the same thing Hamas wants, the jews to march into the sea so their can be world peace.

526 sparrowlake  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 12:00:13pm

re: #505 Arrr

Hamas pre-elected was far worse than Hamas in power

Don't bogart that joint my friend.
Hamas is the popularly chosen leadership of the world's premier example of mass insanity and national pathology.

527 NC State of Mind  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 12:01:08pm

re: #524 midwestgak

They are a dying movement and this could be the final nail in the cofin of their relevancy.

And one more final "f" in coffin. :) I'm anul. sorry.

Anul? :)

528 Arrr  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 12:01:34pm

Also, I never said that Hamas and Hizballah are accountable YET, just that they can be pushed in that direction.

529 J.S.  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 12:01:47pm

re: #523 Arrr

Yet more coming from the La-La-Cuckoo Land! so, you figure that if you're murdered by a suicide terrorist, that's somehow "worse" than dying via a rocket blast? What are you -- some raving lunatic? What moral difference can there possibly be? What to explain that to the families of the murdered victims?

530 midwestgak  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 12:02:16pm

re: #527 NC State of Mind

Anul? :)

It's the cousin of Anal. :)

531 sparrowlake  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 12:03:12pm

re: #515 galloping granny

Would the religious right in your State be OK with a pregnant teen crossing your State Line to obtain a legal abortion in the next State?

532 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 12:03:51pm
533 pegcity  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 12:04:18pm

re: #529 J.S.

U see if the bad jews only gave the palis proper explosives they wouldn't have to resort to making crude rockets.

Id like to see Rockets launched at Berkley and see how tolerant these jew hating leftards would be.

They call for blood for cutting down some trees

534 J.S.  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 12:05:00pm

re: #528 Arrr

Excuse me...Now you're into what? prevarications? You wrote "Once they were in power, they became accountable." That is what you wrote. Short term memory deficit or what's wrong with you?

535 pegcity  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 12:05:31pm

re: #534 J.S.

it seems to come part and parcel with being an Obama supporter.

536 WrathofG-d  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 12:05:34pm

re: #523 Arrr

1st: I repeat my disgust at your complete disregard for the safety, security, and right of Israeli's to exist, and live without fear of terrorism. Your only response to that is that suicide bombing is more "evil" because of what it does to the Terrorist? Is that who you sympathise with? You seem to have no concern for the lives of innocent Israelis. I do not worry about the harm to the Terrorist...unlike you, I do not sympahtise with the murderer.

You should be ashamed of yourself.

You have shown your true colors.

537 Arrr  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 12:06:40pm

re: #529 J.S.

You do realize that Palestinian apologists make the same equivalence arguments when it comes to suicide bombings and Israeli air strikes, right?

538 sparrowlake  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 12:06:50pm

re: #534 J.S.

Excuse me...Now you're into what? prevarications? You wrote "Once they were in power, they became accountable." That is what you wrote. Short term memory deficit or what's wrong with you?

Picky, picky, picky. LOLOL.

539 pegcity  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 12:07:27pm

re: #536 WrathofG-d

he or she is an Obama supporter are you suprised, can't say im ever shocked what comes out of leftists mouths, i wouldn't be suprised if one of them told me they hoped Iran nuked Israel.

540 Arrr  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 12:07:41pm

re: #534 J.S.

I will concede that point - I should have worded it differently. I was referring to the bigger picture.

541 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 12:08:10pm
542 WrathofG-d  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 12:08:24pm

re: #525 pegcity

I'm getting the same sense about Arrr. Sure the Jews might be terrorised and murdered...but suicide bombing is worse because of the harm to the Terrorist.

I bet Arrr thinks that all U.S. soldiers are "brainwashed" too

543 pegcity  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 12:10:12pm

re: #537 Arrr

You do realize that Palestinian apologists make the same equivalence arguments when it comes to suicide bombings and Israeli air strikes, right?

Um guy Israeli airstrikes are intended only to take out the target shooting rockets into Israeli homes, any collateral damage comes as a result of the palis using human shields and launching mortars from school playgrounds.

But yes taking out someone firing rockets at you is the same thing as firing rockets at elementary schools.

But what do u care, your a jew hater, i could write a 10 page thesis and it wouldn't make any difference.

544 WrathofG-d  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 12:10:39pm

re: #541 buzzsawmonkey

In essence, Arrr's argument is that the terrorists against the U.S. and every other country you cannot talk to as they are pure evil...those only killing Jews and attacking Israel however....well, they are less evil, and just might have a point.

545 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 12:11:02pm
546 galloping granny  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 12:11:28pm

re: #531 sparrowlake

Would the religious right in your State be OK with a pregnant teen crossing your State Line to obtain a legal abortion in the next State?

For starters, I'm not sure just how much religious right there is in either Vermont or New Hampshire, both of which are pretty darned small, with a river running down the middle of them. Along the river, most of the big health centers and shopping strips are on the New Hampshire side of the river because New Hampshire does not have a sales tax. So there are certainly areas in Vermont where those who want an abortion go to New Hampshire to get one, no matter what age they are. But the same would be true of any other medical care in those areas.

As far as I know, the two states have very similar laws, so there is no issue of crossing the state line to get an abortion unobtainable in the other state.

Every time that I have heard the issue raised specifically in regards to teens, people are most concerned with the complete disregard for parent's rights to approve medical care for their child. In this area at least, Planned Parenthood seems to feel that parents have no right to know about birth control or abortions, but then do not hesitate to bill the insurance that the parent carries on the child.

547 J.S.  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 12:11:38pm

re: #537 Arrr

You know, Arr (or is that Err?), guess what? I'm in Canada -- you want the moral equivalence argument? I hear it everyday from the MSM up here -- but do you even understand what the "moral equivalence" argument means? And because someone states a moral equivalence argument, do you believe that that makes it so?

548 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 12:11:52pm
549 galloping granny  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 12:12:11pm

re: #534 J.S.

Excuse me...Now you're into what? prevarications? You wrote "Once they were in power, they became accountable." That is what you wrote. Short term memory deficit or what's wrong with you?

If you aren't honest and accountable before taking office, the acquisition of power surely will not make you so.

550 sparrowlake  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 12:12:33pm

re: #540 Arrr

I will concede that point - I should have worded it differently. I was referring to the bigger picture.

Uh, excuse me but I think you lost the argument. So be big enough to admit it and thank Buzz for being so polite when he whupped yo' ass.

551 HoosierHoops  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 12:13:05pm

re: #483 midwestgak

My state of IL is dark blue, but it went red in '80 and '84. I would like a repeat of that in '08 and '12. Is there any one out there that would like to join me in chanting, repeat, repeat, repeat...


Change..change..change

552 midwestgak  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 12:14:53pm

re: #551 HoosierHoops

Change..change..change

Ha Ha Ha :)

553 Ford_Prefect  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 12:14:58pm

re: #523 Arrr

How can you say that there is any difference b/w suicide bombing and a missile intended to terrorize. They both involve the deaths of civilians just going about their day. Men, Women, Children. All the same.

554 pegcity  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 12:15:14pm

re: #550 sparrowlake

Im sure hes going to go off later to the coffee house and go on a nice little rant about the Joooooz with his other Obamtoms.

555 nyc redneck  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 12:16:11pm

oh, and he thinks this because her middle name is fatima?

556 HoosierHoops  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 12:16:19pm

re: #513 WrathofG-d

I also highly suggests that before anyone even begin to discuss the Arab-Israel conflict that they go look up: The PLO PHASED PLAN.

and read the Hamas Charter!

Carter.

fixed

557 Arrr  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 12:16:22pm

re: #536 WrathofG-d

"I repeat my disgust at your complete disregard for the safety, security, and right of Israeli's to exist, and live without fear of terrorism."

Why do you believe that I have "complete disregard for the safety, security, and right of Israeli's to exist, and live without fear of terrorism"?

"Your only response to that is that suicide bombing is more "evil" because of what it does to the Terrorist?"

Suicide bombing is more evil because children are being brainwashed by their psychotic parents into becoming human bombs, and those human bombs actively seek out civilians, look them in the eye, and cherish the carnage in a final act of spite.

It's more evil because of the thinking behind the process, and yes, I do sympathize with children who have been brainwashed to sacrifice themselves for a loathsome cause. LGF has a recurring "Palestinian Child Abuse" theme for a reason. Those children are tragic, pitiable figures. I have no sympathy, however, for adults of sound mind - people who should KNOW BETTER - who blow themselves up, or parents who send their children to blow themselves up. They are the scum of the earth.

558 WriterMom  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 12:17:22pm

re: #547 J.S.

Where are you in Canada? If you don't mind me asking.

559 pegcity  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 12:17:44pm

re: #557 Arrr

why don't you stop talking now, are you trying to dig a hole to China?

560 WrathofG-d  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 12:18:56pm

re: #554 pegcity

What amazes me the most about the Israel-Arab conflict is that the arguments against Israel never change no matter the facts on the ground. The same argument the Arabs made against the Jews in the Mandate, are the same arguments made against the Zionists, are the same arguments made against the State of Israel, are the same arguments made aginst the post 1967 Israel, are the same arguments made against post-Oslo Israel, are the same arguments made against post-Disengagement Israel.....etc.

Those who wish to argue against Israel refuse to see facts on the ground, and that their Oslo-like ideals have failed time & time again.

561 sparrowlake  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 12:19:11pm

re: #546 galloping granny

I think you know what I'm asking but here's one more try:
Would the religious right be content with a "States Rights" scenario where abortions were legal in one state and illegal in the next, such that females could simply cross a state line to obtain a legal abortion?

562 galloping granny  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 12:19:17pm

re: #557 Arrr

Do you suppose that you could learn to use the quote function? It surely would make it much easier for the rest of us to determine just what you were responding to and just what your response was rather than the whole mess getting lost in the wash.

563 J.S.  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 12:19:33pm

re: #558 WriterMom

I'm in Edmonton, Alberta...

564 DaddyO  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 12:19:58pm

re: #276 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

...why settle for six-pack abs when you can have the whole keg?

I'll drink to that !

565 Arrr  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 12:20:29pm

re: #549 galloping granny

If you're in power, then to some degree you're accountable by default - to the international community, your neighbors, or the people you claim to represent. How that is dealt with is another story.

566 midwestgak  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 12:21:13pm

re: #557 Arrr

LGF has a recurring "Palestinian Child Abuse" theme for a reason. Those children are tragic, pitiable figures.

I'm sort new to LGF so this is news to me. Glad to be associated with a pack of lizardoids who would discuss this serious plight.

567 pegcity  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 12:21:40pm

re: #563 J.S.

I'm in Edmonton, Alberta...

Go Harper

568 HoosierHoops  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 12:22:32pm

re: #557 Arrr

They are different sides of the same coin arrr. The linkage is inseparable.
It doesn't matter if you use children, missles, crash airliners, saw off heads..It's still terrorism.. trying to morally rate them is a fools errand.

569 SnoozeAlarm  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 12:24:45pm
What’s the difference between Palin and Muslim fundamentalists? Lipstick.

I thought the answer was "newer magazines".

570 WrathofG-d  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 12:24:51pm

re: #557 Arrr


First you are changing the subject. This isn't about the "poor children" but instead about your original comment that in essence "rockets aren't so bad", and every Terrorist group in the world should be shunned except for those killing Jews and Israelis. Why do I think you have no concern for the lifves of Israelis, etc?: Because your responses express as much. You are excusing the firing of rockets daily, and attempts at suicide bombings...plus, where there is a lag in completed vest bombings you credit Hamas. You are giving credit and benefit to a terrorist organization that daily attacks innocent civilians, while at the same time painting the Terrorists as the victims. I don't have much concern for the Terrorist. I do not belive them to be brainwashed in any way. They know fully well what they are doing, and enjoy every moment of it.

Have you read the PLO Phased Plan? Have you studied the Hamas Charter? Do you actually listen to what Hamas says, and paid attention to what they actually do?

You are being fooled. A terrorist is a terrorist is a terrorist. One method of targeting innocent civilians is not better than another. If it were your famly being targeted daily, I imagine you wouldn't be crying for the "poor innocent brainwashed Phakestinian Terrorist Children".

That is why!

571 galloping granny  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 12:25:13pm

re: #561 sparrowlake

I think you know what I'm asking but here's one more try:
Would the religious right be content with a "States Rights" scenario where abortions were legal in one state and illegal in the next, such that females could simply cross a state line to obtain a legal abortion?

Well, frankly that is what we had when I was a young woman. And the same was true of drinking and birth control. At the time, nobody complained about it. The laws were what the majority of the people of a given state wanted them to be. If you disagreed, you went elsewhere.

If you're asking me if I'm worried that some state could outlaw abortion, not in the least.

572 pegcity  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 12:25:59pm

re: #568 HoosierHoops

keep in mind to the Left and people like ARRR, their are good terrorists, freedom fighters and bad terrorists "israelis, or Americans"

You know that saying one mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter, i can tell u it wasn't coined by a conservative.

573 viojam  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 12:26:26pm

To: Juan Cole

Your article's whole premise is the result of your twisted liberal form of thinking. This, thank God, is not accepted by the majority of Americans. You are simply regurgitating radical left-wing lying blogs attempting to smear Mrs. Palin. You and salon are liberal hacks spewing your irrelevant dribble to other aberrant liberals who love to add their even more aberrant beliefs in their blog entries. Thereby perpetuating your belief that a lot of Americans may think like you. NOT.
There are no facts in your article to support the now debunked lies you are trying to perpetuate. Here is fact for you: University of Oregon - ”Most Americans believe global warming is real but a moderate and distant risk. While they strongly support policies like investing in renewable energy, higher fuel economy standards and international treaties, they strongly oppose carbon taxes on energy sources that put carbon dioxide into the atmosphere.” Just to show how out of touch you are, living in your elitist, smarter-than-everyone bubble.
No journalism is represented in your biased, ridiculous article. Your article actually paints Mrs. Palin to the right of islamo-fascists. Do you actually proof-read your own work? As if she would advocate the killing of infidels, gays and prostitutes. You left out the fact that journalists are the first targets of terrorists. Might you be afraid Mrs. Palin might come after you? Oh, that’s your next article. Your comparison with Islam is simply the rantings of someone who has suddenly realized that most Americans are religious, honest and conservative. They respect what any politician, man or woman, has to offer. Now you know that your dreams of an Obama nation are rapidly crumbling around you. Just within reach of your little Socialist fingers. Now, nothing. That must be adding to your current state of mind. You’re elitist, liberal, know-it-all, tax everything ideology is going out the window (baby, bath water and all). Again.
During this election process Democrats have shown themselves to be the Party that listens to the shrill voice of radical left-wing racist, sexist, misogynists. What’s a fellow lib to do? Lash out, of course. Attack anything and everything. If you can use facts all the better but not required. You try to demean Mrs. Palin but end up demeaning ALL Americans who respect her for her accomplishments and beliefs. Typical liberal.

574 galloping granny  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 12:27:19pm

re: #565 Arrr

If you're in power, then to some degree you're accountable by default - to the international community, your neighbors, or the people you claim to represent. How that is dealt with is another story.

My point is that decision making skills & responsibility - aka "accountability" - do not suddenly descend from on high. Those who have poor decision making skills, refuse to take responsibility for their actions and are simply not accountable in small things do not do any better when given larger things to be responsible for. Most often, with more power comes less accountability rather than more.

575 galloping granny  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 12:27:40pm

re: #573 viojam

Easier to read with paragraphs :)

576 WrathofG-d  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 12:29:23pm

re: #574 galloping granny

Arrr, obviously spoiled by American democracy, and ignorant to true dictatorships, believes that all governments can be help accountable, by the sake of thier existence only. (as the U.S. government is)

hahahhaha, if only that were true.

577 hazzyday  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 12:29:41pm

re: #575 galloping granny

Easier to read with paragraphs :)

Yah, Too much content on the internet. If I see anything ALL CAPS or no paragraph formatting I will usually skip it. Bad Grammar most of the time ok if attempt is made. L33t speak I skip also.

578 sparrowlake  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 12:30:09pm

re: #571 galloping granny

Oy.

579 hazzyday  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 12:30:41pm

re: #566 midwestgak

LGF has a recurring "Palestinian Child Abuse" theme for a reason. Those children are tragic, pitiable figures.

I'm sort new to LGF so this is news to me. Glad to be associated with a pack of lizardoids who would discuss this serious plight.

Hamas is a death cult for Children. they treat their kids as tools.

580 J.S.  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 12:32:42pm

re: #579 hazzyday

The HAMAS models its "youth program" after Schickelgruber's Youts "program"...

581 pegcity  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 12:33:55pm

re: #579 hazzyday

Tools they can strap bombs too, or place next to Quassam rockets and then when they get killed, they run to reuters who happily report that the jews killed another innocent muslim.

Now when they kill one of their own, meh, all part of Allahs will.

582 WrathofG-d  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 12:35:02pm

re: #579 hazzyday

I'm not sure they "use their children" as you say. They enforce in their children love of country, love of family, and the desire to fight for both.

I'm not here to judge the Phakestinians....that I will leave up to H'S. I am only here to voice my disagreement with thier targeting civilians, and the fact that Israel accepts that Hamas will continue to kill Israelis.

I don't want to judge Hamas, I want to protect my "family" and defeat them.

583 sparrowlake  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 12:37:24pm

re: #554 pegcity

Im sure hes going to go off later to the coffee house and go on a nice little rant about the Joooooz with his other Obamtoms.

After it stops off at home to change its undergarment.

584 WrathofG-d  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 12:40:06pm
585 pegcity  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 12:43:04pm

To provoke an all-out war in which Israel's Arab neighbors destroy it entirely ("liberate all Palestinian territory"). (Article 8)

They will destroy israel with their incredible military might conisting of their inbred conscript armies and 40 year old fighter jets.

586 Arrr  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 12:48:18pm

re: #570 WrathofG-d

If it were your famly being targeted daily, I imagine you wouldn't be crying for the "poor innocent brainwashed Phakestinian Terrorist Children".

That is why!

"First you are changing the subject. This isn't about the "poor children" but instead about your original comment that in essence "rockets aren't so bad", and every Terrorist group in the world should be shunned except for those killing Jews and Israelis."

You are putting words into my mouth. I'm not saying "rockets aren't so bad", I'm saying "they're evil but a lesser evil than sending little children to blow themselves up".

And this has nothing to do with singling out Jews and Israelis. The terrorist Islamic Jihad is anti-Israel, and cannot be reasoned with. They should be shunned and destroyed whenever they rear their heads. JI, the SE Asian Islamist terrorist group, is also beyond reason.

"Why do I think you have no concern for the lifves of Israelis, etc?: Because your responses express as much. You are excusing the firing of rockets daily, and attempts at suicide bombings...plus, where there is a lag in completed vest bombings you credit Hamas. You are giving credit and benefit to a terrorist organization that daily attacks innocent civilians, while at the same time painting the Terrorists as the victims."

Excusing? Credit? Victims? You are putting words into my mouth.

Let me make myself absolutely clear. There is no excuse for the actions of Hamas and Hizballah. "Credit" is not an acceptable way of describing their behavior (or lack thereof). And, barring the children, they are not victims, they are victimizers.

"I don't have much concern for the Terrorist. I do not belive them to be brainwashed in any way. They know fully well what they are doing, and enjoy every moment of it."

For adults I'd agree with you. But do you honestly believe that nine year olds really know what they are doing?

"Have you read the PLO Phased Plan? Have you studied the Hamas Charter? Do you actually listen to what Hamas says, and paid attention to what they actually do?"

Yes. The PLO phased plan is the ultimate goal of Israel's destruction. The Hamas charter still calls for the destruction of Israel, and blames world Jewry, as well as Freemasons, The Lions Club, and Rotary International, for the Muslim world's problems. I am aware of what Hamas spokesmen say, and what they have done and still do.

"You are being fooled. A terrorist is a terrorist is a terrorist. One method of targeting innocent civilians is not better than another."

There's a reason why the British government considers al-Qaeda far worse than the IRA. Targeting innocent civilians is wrong no matter what, but the degree and intent and capability does make enough of a difference for terrorist groups to be labeled and dealt with accordingly. As for the degree of morals, I think we should agree to disagree, since the moral argument is going nowhere.

587 funky chicken  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 12:52:00pm

re: #70 Nevergiveup

"Tiny US town attempts to lure in Jews
Association offers Jewish families up to $50,000 in return for relocation to southern Christian town of 58,000 people in order to attract youths to synagogue, religious school. Though town is considered 'peanut capital of world', none have made the move yet"

[Link: www.ynetnews.com...]

Hum. Maybe I should give them a call? I bet there are less liberals down there.

guaranteed. And $50,000 will buy a fourth of a very nice home in Dothan. You might need a translator for the first couple of months though.

588 midwestgak  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 12:52:34pm

re: #586 Arrr

Anybody. Is this getting old? and futile.

589 pegcity  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 12:54:35pm
There's a reason why the British government considers al-Qaeda far worse than the IRA. Targeting innocent civilians is wrong no matter what, but the degree and intent and capability does make enough of a difference for terrorist groups to be labeled and dealt with accordingly. As for the degree of morals, I think we should agree to disagree, since the moral argument is going nowhere.

nice analogy their, too bad the IRA managed finally to give up it's terrorism past and move on with their lives.

And if the IRA were still trying to kill the queen and killing scores of Brits and protestants do you think the British government would be see them as benign.

Your argument that because Hamas is less able to kill Israelis than in the past they are less of a threat.

That is some warped state department thinking their.

590 Hhar  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 12:54:52pm

re: #582 WrathofG-d

I'm not sure they "use their children" as you say. They enforce in their children love of country, love of family, and the desire to fight for both.

I'm not here to judge the Phakestinians....that I will leave up to H'S. I am only here to voice my disagreement with thier targeting civilians, and the fact that Israel accepts that Hamas will continue to kill Israelis.

I don't want to judge Hamas, I want to protect my "family" and defeat them.

I don't want to judge Hamas and their jolly crew either. I would note however that if one loves one's family, one does not generally encourage it's members to commit suicide in the name of country, religion or ideology. And note that this is not suicide that results from defense against assault, but the suicide of an attempt at political coercion by assault on civilians. So...yeah, "use their children as tools" is about right. I'm sure they love their children, but that isn't strictly relevant: too many are also extremely messed up.

That's a judgement, and I don't want to make it, but res ipsa loquitur.

591 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 12:55:10pm
592 Ford_Prefect  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 12:56:09pm

OK. I keep getting pulled away and am unable to keep up with this whole discussion, so I just say this. Arrr, I appreciate the fact that you have stuck around and tried to have a serious discussion about this. However, I could not possibly disagree with you more strongly. Obama will put us into the same sort of weakened position that we found ourselves in as a result of the Carter administration. Your insistence that Obama would "pull the triger" on groups that will not negotiate is completely unfounded based on his record. Besides, negotiation implies a give and take. You cannot have a give and take discussion with people whose primary goal is your complete anihilaition. What are you going to give? Furthermore, his comments have shown a complete lack of understanding or respect for the very basic tenents of our Constitution and our founding principles. After 4 or 8 years of an Obama administration our Supreme Court would be in such a state that the Constitution would be in a shambles. I don't know how old you are or how much history you know, but perhaps your comments can be attributed to idealism of youth rather than ignorance. I don't know. I just hope that one day you see the light, and that it doesn't take 8 years of Obama for that to happen.

On that note, I wish you all a great day and will see you down the road.

593 midwestgak  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 12:56:32pm

re: #589 pegcity

Their? or There! :)
:)

594 pegcity  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 12:59:29pm

re: #592 Ford_Prefect

If the reports of Kim Il Jong being on his death bed are true that could be worse than Russia and China combined.

Obama could have been president in 1992 and maybe we would have not risked the end of the world but now, jeez the thought is terrifying.

595 WrathofG-d  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 1:00:13pm

re: #586 Arrr

You argument is non-linear. You state that you are fully aware of the goals of both Hamas, the PLO but yet you wish for the U.S. and Israel to negotiate with them, claiming some unproovable "accountability".

You claim that you understand that the firing of rockets daily at Israeli civilians is Terrorism, and "evil" but yet you still advocate the that Israel ignore this and negotiate with Hamas, etc.

You state that the firing of rockets, and vest bombings are Terrorism, but then state that Vest bombings are a greater evil. I will not deny that I understand your argument, but once again I repeat that you are sympathising with Terrorists. The end result for the Israeli is the same, and the intent of the Terrorist is the same. Rockets or Vest Bombing is simply method. When my family is being terrorised and murdered, I do not waste my time in my ivory tower concerning myself with the "method". (unless it is to concern myself with stopping it, and garnering revenge)

Lastly to your comparison between the IRA and AQ. Your belief that Hamas, and Hez'b'allah are not as much of a threat to Israel as AQ is to England is foolhearty. I would go as far as to state that Hamas, and Hiz'b'allah, and the PLO are MORE of a threat to Israel, than AQ is to the West. The IRA was not a threat to England's soverignty, but Hamas & Hiz'b'allah, and the PLO are to Israel. This can be seen by the fact that they are presently in the process of terrorizing the entire Nation, and occupying 1/2 of Israel. (Yesha).

Your constant argument to negotiate with Hamas is based on falsehoods, that cannot be backed up by facts. You really should go study Oslo, to see that your presumptions have already been prooven false. Hamas is a threat to Israel, and Israelis, and thus should NOT be negotiated with but instead destroyed. I imagine from your arguments that you enjoyed Pat Buchanan's last book re: ww2. It was all a misunderstanding....right?

596 J.S.  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 1:03:42pm

re: #586 Arrr

You do realize that the moral equivalence argument begins by suggesting that there are "shades of gray" when considering terrorists? In fact, your statements sound very, very similar to statements made by people up here -- such as Neil MacDonald of the CBC. Macdonald was consistently defending, for example, Hezbollah -- why, they weren't all terrorists, since they did charity works! Ja, Charity verks! da gut verks of Charity! Hezbollah should never be designated as a 'terrorist" organization! Heaven Forfend! And, in addition, Hezbollah only targets Jews -- so, you know, there's a big difference between hezbollah and al-qaeda! Ja! (or so claims MacDonald). To make the "moral" difference -- you simply (according to MacDonald) look to who's being targeted and if the terrorist organization does "good works" in the form of "charity" in its recruitment...and if it's Jews, well, you know, it's pretty much a "so what, eh?" In my opinion, these are precisely the arguments put forward by the antisemites. And in terms of "morality" -- these arguments are base and immoral. They have NO moral defense whatsoever.

597 WrathofG-d  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 1:05:34pm

Hey I imagine that if you offered AQ, 1/2 of Washington, and 1/2 of New York for a Country, they could be "reasonable" and "accountable" too.

Let's talk to Osama Bin Laden....maybe we can negotiate. Oh wait...he kills Christians.....never mind....let's go back to discussing negotiations with Hamas & Hiz'b'allah...they only kill Jews.

598 Hhar  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 1:11:59pm

Arrr, you have stuck it out admirably. I take issue with this:

I think the myth of monolithic Islamism is just as short-sighted as the myth of monolithic Communism. Osama bin Laden would never admit "had I known the scale of the response, I would not have ordered the attacks". Despite their bluster, I doubt Hizbollah will ever pull a stunt like that again. Hizbollah understands politics by other means, al-Qaeda does not. Also, the two groups would slaughter each other if given the chance.

Hezbollah can be trusted not to pull the same thing twice. It can be trusted to try and pull something worse. Hezbollah's Islamism is a political ideology built on a batshit crazy view of the world, that then works itself out in predictable ways. The difference between al Qaeda and Hezbollah is one of flavor and tone, and these dfferences are tactically and strategically important, but to say that Hezbollah is somehow more sane than al Quaeda is....well, odd. So I'll assume you aren't saying that.

Hezbollah may be a regional player, but it has acted transnationally in the past (witness the Buenos Aries bombings) and will act again that way in the future. So....I lack your confidence in predicting the future.

599 Sideways  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 2:50:31pm

One of the commends made over on Salon was along the lines of "If professor Cole was correct, Bristol would be dead."

Pretty much.

600 Price_of_Peace  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 3:16:53pm

re: #4 maddogg

This supports "Darwinism." Monkeys are well know to fling excrement. It's in the "jeans" of some people.

601 Price_of_Peace  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 3:17:32pm

In the mouths of others. Fixed that.

602 AnotherRightWingConspirator  Tue, Sep 9, 2008 3:30:58pm

These people are ass-clowns of the highest order. The media is in a death spiral. Their desperation is pathetic.

603 MarinExLib  Wed, Sep 10, 2008 7:54:04pm

In contrast ... Camille Paglia had some good things to say about Sarah Palin on "Salon" today. Click here for her interesting article.


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