Looking for new Army recruits, undoubtedly.

Butt Covering. Try raiding the ISI. That is where you will find the culprits.

Freedom fighters!

Just goes to show they knew exactly where LeT was operating this whole time, and only now chooses to act to save face.

Pakistan had to do something, no matter how ineffective to deflect global criticism. Now when they start shutting down the radical Madressa's we might start getting somewhere with Islamic radicalism and Pakistan....

Something tells me the Indians won't be satisfied with this CYA move.

Pakistan Raids Militant Islamic Camp.

Did anyone check to see if the Pakistani Army's guns had orange tips on them?

Local man Nisar Ali told Reuters the operation began in the afternoon in Shawai on the outskirts of Muzaffarabad, the capital of the Pakistani side of disputed Kashmir region.

I guess a "local man" is the closest you'll get to a reliable source in Pakistan.

Too little too late. They will launch another attack in 6 months to a year. So it goes. I'm still in favor of Pakistan losing it's sovereignty. They are a problem and will continue to export terrorism unless somebody takes care of the problem.

I hope this is just the first step.

re: #6 Honorary Yooper

Something tells me the Indians won't be satisfied with this CYA move.

Yeah- just enough on the part of the Pakis to keep people off their back, but I doubt this is the end of it.

It's the Pakistani two-step. The Pakistanis have been doing this for years, and it follows a trend in other places like Saudi Arabia following terror attacks. You make a few arrests. Kill a few terrorists and say that you're cracking down. You do just enough to stay in power (in the case of Musharraf and now Zardari), and little more. You cycle between appeasement and crackdown, and the Islamists know this is coming just as surely as anyone who has been watching this for years.

The only way to break out of this mess is to take on the Islamists and destroy the Islamist terror infrastructure, but no one in Pakistan is willing to take it on; they've penetrated the ISI and the government can barely control the frontier provinces, let alone deal with the immediate threat of India's wrath following the terror attacks.

Note too that the NATO operations in Afghanistan are at tremendous risk because Pakistan simply cannot maintain operational security for the convoys carrying the weapons and equipment into Afghanistan, and that threatens the IFOR. That's not a good situation to be in at all.

Cracking down against LeT is the absolute least the Pakistanis can do at this point. It's also the most they can do, precisely because of the risk of looking like the government is operating at the behest of the West or India. VFUS (aka snafu).

Similar to how the Palestinian police arrest militants after a suicide bombing, to have them unceremoniously released 2 days later.

Let me guess....the camp was deserted.

Rounding up the usual suspects.

Or does "raided" mean "sat down for a leisurely dinner with"?

re: #10 MandyManners

I hope this is just the first step.

How does that old saying go? One step forward, two steps back...

These raids tend to go telegraphed, it's unlikely they got the real culprit, but closing a camp is closing a camp. Next they need to concentrate on Jaish e Muhammed, and the groups operating at Dara Adam Khel and Peshawar. (The ones who burned 70 hummers today.)
I don't always agree with Bill Roggio, but hat's off to him for consistently calling for closure of these camps for two years running. Maybe it's soaked in.

re: #2 pat

US wants four ex-ISI officials declared terrorists
We'll see how this develops. Pakistan is in a tight spot.

"After a hearty buffet of lamb and rice, Pakistani security forces and the Lashkar-e-Taiba (LeT) retreated to the vendors rooms, where new weapons were displayed by young men and women eager to congradulate out Islamic heroes."
What really happened.

I guess foreign aid has been suspended....right?

re: #16 wily

Or does "raided" mean "sat down for a leisurely dinner with"?

I think it means they sprayed for bugs.

The two loud blasts were from the villagers and the Pakistani military engaging in celebratory gunfire.

I think that they got the word from McCain and Lieberman, something like this:
"India's pissed, they are going to attack you, we will issue a call for calm, but aren't going to do a damn thing else if they do. It's about time you started doing something."

re: #23 reesmatt

Most likely close to the truth.

This is all for show.

re: #18 Thanos

The ones who burned 70 hummers today.

Huh?

It's like when Karzai gave them the GPS coordinates and the telephone number where Mullah Omar was staying in Quetta. They raided weeks after the news was already out.

re: #21 BignJames

I guess foreign aid has been suspended....right?

Arr, just like we suspended aid to NK after their nuke fizzle last year. I fail to understand why we continue to support the NK regime with aid when they have continually refused to honor diplomatic commitments of ceasing nuclear weapon production. The Paki's know that India would wipe them out in about seven minutes if they start launching nuclear weapons. It's a no win scenario mates.

Someone in Pakistan was responsible for an attack on NATO supplies intended for use in Afghanistan.

I think that was intended as a message from Islamabad : Pakistan's cooperation is vital to the US effort in that country.

Which, if anything, shows how vital it is for us to bring about a stable situation in Pakistan--one way or another.

re: #26 MandyManners

Huh?

The Taliban and affiliates attacked two storage depots in Peshawar today, they burned 70 hummers, and several other military rigs headed to Afghanistan.

It's going to be one of the most difficult Oscar categories to predict this year.

Nominated for best faked coordinated performance of a raid for the benefit of a Western audience by a National security force and their affiliated terrorist group, are:

A -The Palestinians
B -The Saudis
C -The Pakistanis.

I say it's time for a hellfire jamboree in Mohmand.

muslims are creepy

"Hitting a camel in the butt", as our President once put it

Hello Muddah,
Hello Faddah,
Here I am at
Camp ud-Dawa,
Camp is very
Entertaining
And they say we'll have some fun
When it's the will of Allah.

re: #5 LoFlyer

Pakistan had to do something, no matter how ineffective to deflect global criticism. Now when they start shutting down the radical Madressa's we might start getting somewhere with Islamic radicalism and Pakistan....

Every Madrassa they close will just be reopened in another secret location by the ISI.

Worst case scenario (for them), they move all the madrassa's to some African Country and continue from there.

Obama Spells End To Blank Cheques For Israel
(so says the headline)

JERUSALEM (AFP) – Israel can no longer expect "blank cheques" from Washington once president-elect Barack Obama's administration takes over in January, a former US ambassador to the Jewish state said on Sunday.

"The era of the blank cheque is over," said Martin Indyk, director of the Centre for Middle East Policy at the Brookings Institute who is considered close to incoming secretary of state Hillary Clinton.

"The Obama administration intends to be engaged, using diplomacy to try to bring about a safer and more peaceful place, that is different from the seven years of the (George W.) Bush administration," he said on public radio.

"President Obama surely will want to work with Israel on this (Middle East) agenda. But there are obligations on both sides (Israel and the Arabs). Both sides will have to respect these obligations," Indyk said.

Acting Prime Minister Ehud Olmert held a "long conversation" with Clinton earlier this week and welcomed her nomination in Obama's team, his office said. She vowed to work for peace and stability in the Middle East.

____

I don't know who to believe, the headline or the article.

re: #34 Zimriel

"Hitting a camel in the butt", as our President once put it

Whereas the President-elect puffs camel butts......

I'll bet this was just a show. They probably dropped leaflets first.

re: #38 Sharmuta

Whereas the President-elect puffs camel butts......

/See the last thread for reference.

Israel-Arab MKs are TRAITORS

re: #39 Pvt Bin Jammin

Called 'em on their cell phones.

Incidental update on the weaponry used in the Mumbai attacks from a friend after speculation that MP5's were involved:

T: No chance. That picture was cropped, badly. Those MP5’s belong to Indian commandos (who also use MP5’s) and are in the uncropped version of the same photo.

Some of the Indian commandos that stormed Chabad House also had MP5’s.

There is absolutely no question whatsoever that the two terrorists from the train station were carrying AK series rifles.

Also - The bolt-action rifles seen in the hands of various Indian reserve forces are not elderly Lee-Enfields (.303 caliber). They’re slightly less elderly Ishapore 2A1’s (7.62mm NATO).

Other Indian troops were shown carrying new production INSAS rifles.

ACROSS
THE
25,
R

re: #32 Thanos

I say it's time for a hellfire jamboree in Mohmand.

The US has been quietly doing this in Pakistan for the last year and a half in Pakistan via Predator UAV's. Pakistan has been allowing the attacks on their soil with only token public denunciation of the attacks. I would expect this to continue for several years. Islamic terrorism is not just a US issue but a global problem and it would really be nice if the UN would recognize the problem and solve it instead of supporting it mates.

re: #41 WrathofG-d

Israel-Arab MKs are TRAITORS

The Arab MK's are no more traitors to Israel than the likes of Olmert, Livni, and Barak.

Ask an Arab and He will admit that the black & white Kifiyah s is Iconic of the Phakestinianites no matter what those silly Westerners think!

re: #42 BignJames

Either that or text messaged.

re: #37 WrathofG-d

"The era of the blank cheque is over," said Martin InNodyk, director of the Centre for Middle East Policy at the Brookings Institute who is considered close to incoming secretary of state Hillary Clinton.

I remember this turd as the self-hating Jew ambassador to Israel for the Bubba Administration.

Three empty tents and two old camels were destroyed. Pocky Stan has committed an act of war against India. This act against an encampment is pathetic.

re: #30 Thanos

The Taliban and affiliates attacked two storage depots in Peshawar today, they burned 70 hummers, and several other military rigs headed to Afghanistan.

Why do I get the notion that someone's poking at CBBHO for his suggestion to invade Pakistan?

re: #45 traderjoe9

The Arab MK's are no more traitors to Israel than the likes of Olmert, Livni, and Barak.

Yes they are. Both are bad but the Arab Mks are WORSE

re: #41 WrathofG-d

BTW, check out the picture on the left.

Palestinian woman shop for Eid al-Adha in the main market in Gaza City during a power cut.

Yet if you look at the background it looks like the power is working perfectly fine.

I'll bet there was some of this going on in the raided villages.

re: #44 LoFlyer

They've only done a couple attacks outside FATA / NWFP, it's time to expand the periphery when we get good intel.

re: #37 WrathofG-d

Funny, but Bush tried the diplomacy thing too, and got no closer to a Palestinian-Israeli deal than Clinton did before him. The reason? The Palestinians prefer war with Israel to a two-state solution. They don't want a two state solution and Hamas is the preferred option; if the West didn't prop up Fatah, it would fold like a cheap suit. Hamas has no intention of seeking peace with Israel. Why would it? They've seen Israel make concession after concession, even as they're under incessant rocket and mortar fire.

Just today, the Israelis pardoned a bunch of Fatah thugs hoping to get on Fatah's good side. That came as the rockets and mortars continued slamming into Israel from Gaza. Let's also ignore the terror attacks from the West Bank - the use of bulldozers/earth movers to attack people in Jerusalem on two occasions, and the ongoing threat of terrorists infiltrating Israel from both Gaza and the West Bank.

Where are the good faith measures by the Palestinians to Israel? Where's the release of Gilad Shalit as a good faith gesture? The Palestinians have no interest in good faith gestures - only demanding Israel make concession after concession.

It will not end, and if the US pushes still more concessions threatening Israel's security by delaying or slowing the defense purchases, it makes Israel's security even more precarious.

Indyk simply has it wrong. Dead wrong.

re: #39 Pvt Bin Jammin

I'll bet this was just a show. They probably dropped leaflets first.

Show or not, as long as the BOOM BOOM's resulted in dead 'militants", I'd watch that show on a daily basis!

re: #26 MandyManners

Listed by JoshuaPundit in the Breaking links.

Yeah, okay, it's from DEBKA, but still:

Israeli experts help India prepare commando raids into Pakistan
DEBKAfile Exclusive Report
December 6, 2008, 4:23 PM (GMT+02:00)

New Delhi has asked Jerusalem to assist in the operational and intelligence planning of Indian commando cross-border strikes against Islamist terrorist havens in Pakistan - including al Qaeda, Indian counter-terror sources report.
The Indian government's decision to embark on these in-and-out incursions in reprisal for the Mumbai outrage of Nov. 26-29 was first revealed in DEBKA-Net-Weekly 375 published Dec. 4 (Indian Retaliatory Raids inside Pakistan Impending).

DEBKAfile adds: Israel is willing to help the Indians carry out punitive forays into Pakistan because it has its own scores to settle for the brutal murder of six Israelis in Mumbai's Chabad Center by the Islamist terrorists and for the Pakistani Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) agency's hand in the atrocity.
Security sources in New Delhi disclosed Saturday, Dec. 6, that ISI officers actively trained the terrorists on military lines and selected their targets, including two big hotels and the Jewish-Israeli center.

Indian sources told DEBKAfile that Israel was asked for assistance because its special undercover forces were long seasoned in plotting and executing reprisals for terrorist attacks; above all, they were expert in getting away after covert operations without leaving a trail. New Delhi wants its commando operations in Pakistan to be stealthy and focused, and does not propose to admit responsibility.

Four Pakistani locations are targeted:
1. Pakistani Kashmir where scores if not hundreds of extremist Muslim training facilities are situated - many of them ISI-run and funded;
2. Punjab in eastern Pakistan on the border of northern India. DEBKAfile's counter terror sources report that Lahore and Multan have attracted a cluster of Islamist terrorist centers.
3. Pakistan's southern coast - from Karachi north to Gwadar close to the Iranian border. Indian intelligence (RAW) has evidence that this strip was where the terrorists who besieged Mumbai ten days ago were trained for their assault.
Our New Delhi sources disclose that Indian leaders showed the outline of this plan to US secretary of state Condoleezza Rice when she visited last week. She commented guardedly that the United States was strongly opposed to a full-scale war between India and Pakistan but not averse to limited counter-terror operations.

Thoughts?

re: #52 traderjoe9

BTW, check out the picture on the left.

Yet if you look at the background it looks like the power is working perfectly fine.

Generators?

re: #50 MandyManners

Why do I get the notion that someone's poking at CBBHO for his suggestion to invade Pakistan?

No, Bill and I have been writing about the movement towards Peshawar and the throttling of Khyber since before Barry was the nominee. It's been going on a while. Syed at Asia Times, one of the Taliban's spokesworms, mentioned the Khyber strategy last July.

re: #56 sattv4u2

Show or not, as long as the BOOM BOOM's resulted in dead 'militants", I'd watch that show on a daily basis!

I'd like to see the footage, that's for sure, or some other proof.

OT: EPA proposal: tax cow/pig farts

re: #59 MandyManners

Generators?

very common in that area.

re: #44 LoFlyer

The US has been quietly doing this in Pakistan for the last year and a half in Pakistan via Predator UAV's. Pakistan has been allowing the attacks on their soil with only token public denunciation of the attacks. I would expect this to continue for several years. Islamic terrorism is not just a US issue but a global problem and it would really be nice if the UN would recognize the problem and solve it instead of supporting it mates.

The US has been largely operating with tacit approval of the Pakistani government in taking out targets inside Waziristan and the NWFP. Problem is that the terrorists aren't simply confined there - there are rat lines all through Pakistan, and going after them is tougher, although the US did take out an al Qaeda bigwig a few weeks back outside the frontier provinces. That's a much more delicate situation.

The Pakistanis have chosen for far too long to enable and condone the Islamists and the jihad. They can't simply turn and burn 'em now without payback, and the Pakistani government is going to walk the tightrope, just as Musharraf did. They'll do only so much to reduce the pressure from the West and India, but no further because that would risk the Islamists rising up against the government.

re: #51 WrathofG-d

Yes they are. Both are bad but the Arab Mks are WORSE

How are they worse? Is it surprising that Arabs take the side of the Palestinians? I for one am not...its just the downside of our democracy that we have to let them in there. I find it more of a crime that Jews like Olmert, Livni, and Barak (and Sharon) are leading our country the way they are, by disregarding Sderot and Ashkelon, dragging Jews out of their homes and promising to give up Jerusalem.

They abandoned us - so really, who is the traitor?

re: #58 Joo-LiZ

Yeah, okay, it's from DEBKA, but still:

Thoughts?

As always, interesting, but...well, who told DEBKA? And, while it sounds plausible, it also sounds like something out of a novel.

re: #54 Thanos

They've only done a couple attacks outside FATA / NWFP, it's time to expand the periphery when we get good intel.

We are getting good intelligence, and I agree we need to expand the "hell-fire" program to other countries supporting terrorism. Diplomatically this would be a disaster mates!

re: #35 itellu3times

Hello Muddah,
Hello Faddah,
Here I am at
Camp ud-Dawa,
Camp is very
Entertaining
And they say we'll learn to kill
When we start training...

You remember Louie Jason?
All that's left of him
is in a basin
We've got chanting
really hateful,
All of which, I must declare
I'm really grateful!

Kill them now, Ud Dawa
Kill them now, Osama
Don't leave them alive just anywhere
That they can think and smile and share...

re: #64 lawhawk

Some good points LH!

I am shocked to find Terrorist training here, Shocked!

Your men sir....

Uh thank you.

re: #55 lawhawk

Funny, but Bush tried the diplomacy thing too, and got no closer to a Palestinian-Israeli deal than Clinton did before him. The reason? The Palestinians prefer war with Israel to a two-state solution. They don't want a two state solution and Hamas is the preferred option; if the West didn't prop up Fatah, it would fold like a cheap suit. Hamas has no intention of seeking peace with Israel. Why would it? They've seen Israel make concession after concession, even as they're under incessant rocket and mortar fire.

Just today, the Israelis pardoned a bunch of Fatah thugs hoping to get on Fatah's good side. That came as the rockets and mortars continued slamming into Israel from Gaza. Let's also ignore the terror attacks from the West Bank - the use of bulldozers/earth movers to attack people in Jerusalem on two occasions, and the ongoing threat of terrorists infiltrating Israel from both Gaza and the West Bank.

Where are the good faith measures by the Palestinians to Israel? Where's the release of Gilad Shalit as a good faith gesture? The Palestinians have no interest in good faith gestures - only demanding Israel make concession after concession.

It will not end, and if the US pushes still more concessions threatening Israel's security by delaying or slowing the defense purchases, it makes Israel's security even more precarious.

Indyk simply has it wrong. Dead wrong.

Exactly. All these politicians today who push for peace and a solution to the Middle East problem are simply delusional; the Palestinians, just like the rest of the Muslims in the region and elsewhere, will not seek peace under any circumstances. Their stated goal is the destruction of Israel and they will not let up until that goal is realized.

What do you think would happen today if Israel pulled out everyone from the West Bank and East Jerusalem? Absolutely nothing - they would just continue with their original plan of trying to destroy all of Israel. They really have no desire for a Palestinian state or anything of that sort.

re: #70 Buck

Wait...? I thought all was well in the world and everyone felt happy and pink and we had peace...?

re: #58 Joo-LiZ

Israel needs to keep a low profile if they do get involved, Jew hate is one thing that unites the urban and rural groups. The only ones they hate more are Hazara Shia.

Well, goodnight.

re: #73 Thanos

Israel needs to keep a low profile if they do get involved, Jew hate is one thing that unites the urban and rural groups. The only ones they hate more are Hazara Shia.

Please... it was Debka...

re: #74 LilyGecko

Good night. Have a great day tomorrow.

I would venture to guess that the US knows where most, if not all of these camps are located.

It would be kind of... interesting... if the Pakistanis woke up one morning and found that all these camps were scorched black spots.

re: #52 traderjoe9

No that IS a "phakestinianite" black out. Like their history, and unique existence. It doesn't have to be backed up by facts or reality to be true or parroted by the media, they just have to say it.

re: #77 Occasional Reader

I would venture to guess that the US knows where most, if not all of these camps are located.

It would be kind of... interesting... if the Pakistanis woke up one morning and found that all these camps were scorched black spots.

That was my plan for a-Q camps in Afghanistan. So I don't see it happening now, either.

re: #73 Thanos

Israel needs to keep a low profile if they do get involved, Jew hate is one thing that unites the urban and rural groups.

It doesn't take a high profile for Jews to be hated.

Jews are hated where there are no Jews.

In Spain, the figures are even more striking: negative views of Jews climbed from 21 percent in 2005 to nearly one in two this year.

The Pew survey on public opinion shows a particularly troubling trend in Spain—a country where all Jews were expelled in 1492 and synagogues are historic monuments. The massive influx of immigrant workers from North Africa, combined with the anti-Israel language of Spain's liberal-left intellectual and media elites, may explain the puzzle of anti-Semitism in a nation with few Jews.

Europe’s Jewish Problem

[Link: www.newsweek.com...]

re: #75 Buck

Please... it was Debka...

I understand that, regardless my advice stands. There is a weird duality in Pakistan over Israel, much of the population respects them -- you will occasionally even see opinion article from the urbans saying in effect "Why Can't We be More like Israel" since both nations started at the same time. However much some respect Israel, every terror group hates them in Pakistan. So if Israel does get involved in any way, keep it off the radar.

re: #68 Karridine

Yeah but somewhere in the process it stops being so funny.

With enough time to tip off the terrorists, I'll bet.

re: #55 lawhawk

(SHORTENED BY WRATH FOR EMPHASIS)

Funny, but Bush tried the diplomacy thing too, and got no closer to a Palestinian-Israeli deal than Clinton did before him.

Where are the good faith measures by the Palestinians to Israel? Where's the release of Gilad Shalit as a good faith gesture?

It will not end, and if the US pushes still more concessions threatening Israel's security by delaying or slowing the defense purchases, it makes Israel's security even more precarious.

Indyk simply has it wrong. Dead wrong.

Amen.

The biggest question I have about the Israel-Arab conflict I have had for a long time is this: When will the West try something different.

Every administration (Israeli & American, etc.) starts off at the beginning following the failed pie-in-the-sky Oslo-like "process". After being shows that these assumptions are wrong, the next administration jumps right in at the beginning with the same just proven wrong assumptions.

re: #77 Occasional Reader

I would venture to guess that the US knows where most, if not all of these camps are located.

It would be kind of... interesting... if the Pakistanis woke up one morning and found that all these camps were scorched black spots.

I would guess they're more like MASH units. As soon as they see or hear about a drone in the area, they pack up and go deeper into the mountains/ country

the operation began in the afternoon in Shawai on the outskirts of Muzaffarabad

That's nice, but the HVT is living openly in LAHORE!

For a suspected terrorist watched by Washington and wanted in New Delhi, Hafiz Mohammed Saeed seems remarkably carefree.

He lives openly in Lahore, and on Friday, he led prayers at his group's mosque, lecturing about sacrifice to almost 10,000 followers as three armed men stood behind him.

The extradition of Saeed, founder of the Islamic militant group Lashkar-e-Taiba, or "army of the pure," was demanded by Indian authorities after the 60-hour siege in Mumbai that killed at least 171 people. He is a suspect in several other attacks in India; the U.S. has listed both Lashkar and its parent group, Jamaat-ud-Dawa, as terrorist organizations.

But Saeed's apparently lax treatment in Pakistan highlights the challenge facing the fledgling civilian government of President Asif Ali Zardari and Prime Minister Syed Yousuf Raza Gilani: how to restrain militant groups once supported by the security forces but now refueling animosity with Pakistan's archfoe India and immense new pressure from the U.S.

/making the Keystone Kops look good 300 miles to the NNW

re: #79 OldLineTexan

That was my plan for a-Q camps in Afghanistan. So I don't see it happening now, either.

We could also sit down with them, without preconditions. That's another idea.

I am checking out mates, keep up the fight! Here is something I found from a an old musical favorite ARS: Angel.

re: #31 opinionated

It's going to be one of the most difficult Oscar categories to predict this year.

Nominated for best faked coordinated performance of a raid for the benefit of a Western audience by a National security force and their affiliated terrorist group, are:

A -The Palestinians
B -The Saudis
C -The Pakistanis.

I vote Yes.

re: #75 Buck

There were multiple reports that the Israelis were sending forensic teams and assistance to India following the Mumbai attacks, it follows a pattern of closer ties between the two countries since the early 1990s.

re: #86 Killian Bundy

I've said for a couple years now that if Uncle Binny's still around he's living in the exurbs of Peshawar or Lahore.

Muslim conquest in India. I started here.

re: #90 lawhawk

There were multiple reports that the Israelis were sending forensic teams and assistance to India following the Mumbai attacks, it follows a pattern of closer ties between the two countries since the early 1990s.

Plus, they both start with "i".

re: #58 Joo-LiZ

Frankly I don't think we need Debka to tell us what is likely obvious. India and Israel cooperate in such matters. With Israel's expertise it would be strange if India did not request covert assistance.

India could return the favor by lighting a fire under some Israeli ass and compel them into Gaza to stop the rocket fire by the barbarians from there.

re: #87 Occasional Reader

We could also sit down with them, without preconditions. That's another idea.

I've heard that, somewhere.

re: #84 WrathofG-d

(SHORTENED BY WRATH FOR EMPHASIS)

Amen.

The biggest question I have about the Israel-Arab conflict I have had for a long time is this: When will the West try something different.

Every administration (Israeli & American, etc.) starts off at the beginning following the failed pie-in-the-sky Oslo-like "process". After being shows that these assumptions are wrong, the next administration jumps right in at the beginning with the same just proven wrong assumptions.

Mental lemmings?

re: #90 lawhawk

There were multiple reports that the Israelis were sending forensic teams and assistance to India following the Mumbai attacks, it follows a pattern of closer ties between the two countries since the early 1990s.

They have a common problem... the alliance is a natural.

In fact, if India decides it must go into Pakistan, I bet Israel would make its move against Iran at the same moment -- sort of a split-the-world's-outrage two step.

re: #96 MandyManners

Arrogance & small mindedness would be my guess.

Its a mixture of the fact that they have convinced themselves that this is the ONLY final solution to the Jewish question in the middle east, and they are arrogant to think that what it was missing was THEM.

re: #84 WrathofG-d

I'm in favor of zero based peace processing. Nothing on the table in advance, and the possibilty of retracting past concessions. Every new peace round should start at zero.

re: #95 OldLineTexan

re: #87 Occasional Reader

We could also sit down with them, without preconditions. That's another idea.

I've heard that, somewhere.

And then, I'll excuse myself to go the mens' room, and find that revolver that Clemenza hid above the toilet tank...

re: #100 Occasional Reader

And then, I'll excuse myself to go the mens' room, and find that revolver that Clemenza hid above the toilet tank...

Can it wait until after dessert? I hear the bombe is to die for.

re: #100 Occasional Reader

And then, I'll excuse myself to go the mens' room, and find that revolver that Clemenza hid above the toilet tank...

Feeling a bit irate, huh?

It will be detminably sad if this does lead to war between Pakistan and India again, they are desperately in need of each other's trade. That's not going to happen as they have their equivalent of the west bank and Gaza in India held Kashmir.

re: #99 Thanos

Israel and the U.S. are falling for typical Arab negotiations: Arabs get a contract then begin negotiating.

/determinably... pimf

re: #94 Opinionated

Frankly I don't think we need Debka to tell us what is likely obvious. India and Israel cooperate in such matters. With Israel's expertise it would be strange if India did not request covert assistance.

India could return the favor by lighting a fire under some Israeli ass and compel them into Gaza to stop the rocket fire by the barbarians from there.

I was more interested in the possibility of Indian cross-border raids that Pakistan could potentially construe as "acts of war", than the idea of Israeli involvement, although that is an added bonus.

re: #84 WrathofG-d

The biggest question I have about the Israel-Arab conflict I have had for a long time is this: When will the West try something different.

"In the year 2525, If man is still alive, If woman can survive, They may find..."

re: #97 stevieray

They have a common problem... the alliance is a natural.

In fact, if India decides it must go into Pakistan, I bet Israel would make its move against Iran at the same moment -- sort of a split-the-world's-outrage two step.

They would be foolish not too, if they have a solid game plan. But you know Israel does not have heavy bombers.......?

re: #84 WrathofG-d

I wrote my master's thesis on the Arab-Israeli conflict and suggested that with the right personalities involved, you could conceivably get a peace deal between the Arabs and Israelis. It took Sadat and Begin to bring about Camp David - Carter was useful inasmuch as he provided the monetary lubrication to cement the deal, but Sadat had to make the first step and travel to Jerusalem. It was realpolitik but needed the personalities to mesh to make it work. Someone had to make the tough decision - the first step to get the ball rolling and enable the backchannels to do their thing knowing that the leadership could actually make it work.

Arafat could never bring himself to making a peace deal, no matter who was offering and what was on the table. Backchannels in Oslo would never amount to anything because Arafat would never make and commit to a final deal. Everything became about process, and forcing Israel to make concessions, with nothing in return.

Abbas is no different, and Hamas will never accept a two state solution, so the situation will remain as it is now - a mess.

And into that mess the US will come claiming to be a honest broker between the parties, when the Palestinians figure the US is on Israel's side, and Israel sees the US pushing it into a corner and threatening its security posture (okay, on that latter point, perhaps Likud sees it, but Olmert, Kadima, and Labor don't). The Russians do just enough to keep the mess going, and Iran and Syria play their games to keep the US mired in the mess by funding the terrorists and keeping Israel off balance.

If the US wants a way to bring peace, it has to start by eliminating the whole notion that there's such a thing as a political wing and military wing of terrorist organizations - they're terrorists, and until they all renounce the terrorism, there's no chance of peace. Period.

No one focuses much on what the Palestinians were supposed to do under Olso, but the world focuses on Israel's commitments under Oslo as the holy grail. It's a double standard that has gone on for more than a decade under both Democrat and GOP Administrations.

re: #97 stevieray

In fact, if India decides it must go into Pakistan

All over before it starts, just a matter of time and carnage.

/India is the predeclared winner 100% of the time

re: #103 Thanos

It will be detminably sad if this does lead to war between Pakistan and India again, they are desperately in need of each other's trade. That's not going to happen as they have their equivalent of the west bank and Gaza in India held Kashmir.

India needs Pakistan less and less as time goes by. India is embracing the future and growing economically and technologically -- Pakistan is sliding backwards ever deeper into the abyss. In another generation they won't have anything in common at all.

re: #75 Buck

Please... it was Debka...

It would be a bad idea. The problem with commando raids is what happens if they fail. If the ISI catches any of the people you sent in, they'll figure out what you are up to. And then you'll catch it.

re: #106 Joo-LiZ

I was more interested in the possibility of Indian cross-border raids that Pakistan could potentially construe as "acts of war", than the idea of Israeli involvement, although that is an added bonus.

That's where Israel comes in. Stealth raids which does damage, sends a message, gets some intelligence and yet, the Pakistanis, not wishing to humiliate themselves, do not publicise.

re: #102 Dianna

Feeling a bit irate, huh?

Dianna, OldLineTexan and I are gonna speak Italian, okay?

(ahh, crap, I don't speak Italian)

re: #99 Thanos

I'm in favor of zero based peace processing. Nothing on the table in advance, and the possibilty of retracting past concessions. Every new peace round should start at zero.

That's never going to happen because the Palestinians will automatically demand and claim that everything that was on the table is still on the table and forms the floor from which they can claim the next batch of concessions from Israel.

Indeed, if the US were serious about pushing a peace deal, they would demand that if the Palestinians don't fulfill their end of the bargains, not only does Israel reserve the right to take all offers off the table, but to do what it can and must do to preserve its security interests.

re: #108 pat

But you know Israel does not have heavy bombers.......?

/all they need is in flight refueling and overflight clearance, I do believe they've already acquired the required penetrator ordnance

re: #106 Joo-LiZ

I was more interested in the possibility of Indian cross-border raids that Pakistan could potentially construe as "acts of war", than the idea of Israeli involvement, although that is an added bonus.

India already has casus bellum. If they were to engage in raids, it would simply be reciprocity.

re: #80 Opinionated

Europe’s Jewish Problem

[Link: www.newsweek.com...]

Dinged up not because I think "wow this is AWESOME". (Obviously.)

Here's a quote which is alternately disgusting and funny -

Anti-Semitism also lies at the heart of the ideology of the British National Party, the fastest-growing political party in Britain. Already, the extreme rightist party has won a seat on the London Assembly, and in local elections this year the BNP doubled its number of local councilors. The party now avoids public statements about Jews and even tries to keep its Islamophobia under control. Yet the only serious publications by BNP leader Nick Griffin are in the mainstream of traditional anti-Semitic tropes. In his short book "Who are the Mindbenders?" Griffin listed British Jews who he said were the secret controllers of the British media, accused Jewish immigrants of changing their names to disguise their origins and called the facts of the Holocaust gas chambers "unscientific nonsense."

Next time he goes out to a meal, someone should bend his spoon while he's not looking.

re: #104 WrathofG-d

Israel and the U.S. are falling for typical Arab negotiations: Arabs get a contract then begin negotiating.

The deal isn't over until the money changes hands.

re: #109 lawhawk

I need to run but the way I see it.

We didn't survive the Holocaust to be told what to do with the land we have been praying for over 2000 years!

Our survival is not a process to be determined by The Nations, and especially not by our enemies.

Its about time we remembered to walk upright!

(rest of post removed for violation of LGF Rule #4)

re: #109 lawhawk

Sadat was willing to risk his life for his people -- for a chance at a future. Arafat wasn't. Its hard to loot when you're dead.

re: #113 Opinionated

That's where Israel comes in. Stealth raids which does damage, sends a message, gets some intelligence and yet, the Pakistanis, not wishing to humiliate themselves, do not publicise.

Pakistanis have no sense of shame unfortunately. You should read their forums. They constantly piss and moan about their leadership, terrorism, the loadshedding, etc. but none of them ever do anything. They wallow and indulge in self congratulatory shame.

I looked up a few websites and they all seem to be on the same page regarding this issue in Greece:

ATHENS, Greece (AP) - The fatal police shooting of a teenager has set off Greece's worst rioting in years, with hooded "youths"rampaging through Athens and the northern city of Thessaloniki over the weekend.

Gangs smashed stores, torched cars and erected burning barricades in the streets of the Greek capital and the country's second largest city in a dramatic eruption of a long-tolerated self-styled anarchist movement.

Rioting began in several cities within hours of the death of a 15-year-old who was shot Saturday night in Exarchia, a downtown Athens district of bars, music clubs and restaurants that is seen as the anarchists' home base. Soon dozens of stores, banks and cars were ablaze. Police said 24 policemen were injured, and one remained in hospital on Sunday morning.

[Link: apnews.myway.com...]

Sounds like the same type of "YOUTHS" causing trouble in France a few years ago..

I still have not been able to find out the name of the 15 year old "Youth" or what his nationality was, the same goes with the "YOUTHS"causing trouble right now..

re: #117 Dianna

India already has casus bellum. If they were to engage in raids, it would simply be reciprocity.

Casus belli.

[whack] on knuckles with ruler

re: #114 Occasional Reader

Dianna, OldLineTexan and I are gonna speak Italian, okay?

(ahh, crap, I don't speak Italian)

The latter will be a problem, won't it?

re: #116 Killian Bundy

/all they need is in flight refueling and overflight clearance, I do believe they've already acquired the required penetrator ordnance

Fantasy.

re: #126 Dianna

The latter will be a problem, won't it?

Whatsmatta for you? You gotta no respect?

re: #112 Dark_Falcon

It would be a bad idea. The problem with commando raids is what happens if they fail. If the ISI catches any of the people you sent in, they'll figure out what you are up to. And then you'll catch it.

An Israeli connection is the anti Semites dream. If there is a better islomo fascist battle cry / recruitment call, I have not seen it.

Take half of what Debka reports as fiction, and the other half as a guess.

This is IMO pure fiction.

re: #123 El Lizardo mejicano

I looked up a few websites and they all seem to be on the same page regarding this issue in Greece:

ATHENS, Greece (AP) - The fatal police shooting of a teenager has set off Greece's worst rioting in years, with hooded "youths"rampaging through Athens and the northern city of Thessaloniki over the weekend.

Gangs smashed stores, torched cars and erected burning barricades in the streets of the Greek capital and the country's second largest city in a dramatic eruption of a long-tolerated self-styled anarchist movement.

Rioting began in several cities within hours of the death of a 15-year-old who was shot Saturday night in Exarchia, a downtown Athens district of bars, music clubs and restaurants that is seen as the anarchists' home base. Soon dozens of stores, banks and cars were ablaze. Police said 24 policemen were injured, and one remained in hospital on Sunday morning.

[Link: apnews.myway.com...]

Sounds like the same type of "YOUTHS" causing trouble in France a few years ago..

I still have not been able to find out the name of the 15 year old "Youth" or what his nationality was, the same goes with the "YOUTHS"causing trouble right now..

It's fully Greek, he's son of a prominent banker, this isn't the type of rioting you think it is.

I just wonder if Pakistani governments really have that much control. Can they put a stop to this sort of thing without provoking a civil war they would probably lose?

re: #124 Occasional Reader

Casus belli.

[whack] on knuckles with ruler

Yes, OR. belli is the plural. Or the accusative, depending. I need to get my head out of story world if I'm going to talk to other people.

Sorry.

re: #127 itellu3times

Fantasy.

/they've already practiced it

re: #126 Dianna

The latter will be a problem, won't it?

Pasta fagioli! Lasagna!

Ho potuto imparare l'italiano, ma male accentati inglese è molto più facile.

re: #132 Dianna

Yes, OR. belli is the plural. Or the accusative, depending. I need to get my head out of story world if I'm going to talk to other people.

Sorry.

Isn't it genitive?

OT: Odd question that I don't expect an answer to....
Does anyone know a good English language source of bamboo joinery? Furniture or construction, it doesn't make much difference. I want to rebuild my cat wheel out of bamboo but The joinery is beyonf my capabilities. Any leads appreciated.

The reason why every Arab-Israeli "peace initiative" has failed is simple -- and it's the reason why every such initiative will continue to fail.

The Arabs do not want peace. They want Israel destroyed, and they will say and do anything to achieve that goal. "Do anything" includes signing treaties and peace agreements that they have no intention of honoring.

Western idiots continue to treat the Arab League as if they're honest brokers, acting surprised and shocked when they break their agreements or blaming it on renegade terrorists, when the truth is that this problem goes all the way from the bottom (the Arab Street) to the top (the dictators who live like kings).

Until Western nations understand this simple fact, and start formulating policies that take reality into account instead of policies based on fantasies, nothing is going to change.

It's a hamster wheel of tragic, insane proportions.

re: #125 ploome hineni

History will record that this was the moment where Great Britain left the real world and entered another dimension.

re: #123 El Lizardo mejicano

I looked up a few websites and they all seem to be on the same page regarding this issue in Greece:

ATHENS, Greece (AP) - The fatal police shooting of a teenager has set off Greece's worst rioting in years, with hooded "youths"rampaging through Athens and the northern city of Thessaloniki over the weekend.

Gangs smashed stores, torched cars and erected burning barricades in the streets of the Greek capital and the country's second largest city in a dramatic eruption of a long-tolerated self-styled anarchist movement.

Rioting began in several cities within hours of the death of a 15-year-old who was shot Saturday night in Exarchia, a downtown Athens district of bars, music clubs and restaurants that is seen as the anarchists' home base. Soon dozens of stores, banks and cars were ablaze. Police said 24 policemen were injured, and one remained in hospital on Sunday morning.

[Link: apnews.myway.com...]

Sounds like the same type of "YOUTHS" causing trouble in France a few years ago..

I still have not been able to find out the name of the 15 year old "Youth" or what his nationality was, the same goes with the "YOUTHS"causing trouble right now..

Anarchism in Greece has a long and ignoble history. The Greeks never could quite figure out if they were a military dictatorship, a democracy, a fascist nation or communist since, I dunno, the Messenian War. There's more of a shared sense of purpose in Italy.

But this article seems less like some 29 year old college student than like a youf of undetermined religiosity... the age and the hoodies point to the latter.

re: #135 Moe Katz

Isn't it genitive?

Accusative - because it's the direct object.

re: #137 Charles

Unfortunately Rudy is the only person in American politics that understands that.

re: #137 Charles

Careful Charles, they will think you are supporting "cycle of violence" with the bit about the hamster wheel.

J'accusative!

re: #137 Charles

There is another component.

Whether anti Semitism or real politik - both really- the conflict will only be allowed to end with Israel's end.

It can never be allowed to end with Israel triumphant.

So as long as Israel still has a minute survival instinct, the conflict must be forced to continue.

Here's a link where the dead person is named, which also describes where and why of the riots (10-25 yr olds on the dole, it's near Christmas, rioting was in prime shopping districts, lots of looting...)

[Link: www.irishtimes.com...]

re: #140 Dianna

Accusative - because it's the direct object.

In the phrase casus belli? Hmmm.

re: #137 Charles

Hey look at the bright side.

Carter to publish new peace book

The former president told his Carter Center, based in Atlanta, that his new book, "We Can Bring Peace to the Holy Land," would be published after President-elect Barack Obama's inauguration in January. Carter otherwise would not discuss the book.

/there. now don't you feel better?

re: #117 Dianna

India already has casus bellum. If they were to engage in raids, it would simply be reciprocity.

Especially if the Indian government puts on the "who farted?" face which the Pakistanis have so perfected, and pretends they have no idea who did it. "oh that would be the OTHER sleazy para-governmental agency"

re: #145 Thanos

Here's a link where the dead person is named, which also describes where and why of the riots (10-25 yr olds on the dole, it's near Christmas, rioting was in prime shopping districts, lots of looting...)

[Link: www.irishtimes.com...]

Yep, that sounds like Europe. Greece is doomed.

Events like the Greek riots are going to become more common the next couple of months unfortunately. Happens during economic downturns, batten the hatches Europe.

*sniffs* Thank you! You have brought joy and happiness to my shrivelled and dying heart.
re: #147 Killian Bundy

re: #147 Killian Bundy

Hey look at the bright side.

Carter to publish new peace book

/there. now don't you feel better?

I picked a helluva day to stop sniffing glue.

re: #147 Killian Bundy

Hey look at the bright side.

Carter to publish new peace book

/there. now don't you feel better?

Oh Brother! Everything that man touches to turns to crap. How many people will this project of his get killed?

re: #99 Thanos

I've always thought peace was highly overrated. It is what you seek when you are losing. Victory is better, and more sustainable.

re: #146 Moe Katz

In the phrase casus belli? Hmmm.

Sigh.

"Cause for war".

What's the subject? An implied "act" is the subject.

What is the verb? "cause".

What is the object? "war"

What is the preposition? "for/of".

so, what is the proper case for the word "war" in Latin?

re: #136 Killgore Trout

OT: Odd question that I don't expect an answer to....
Does anyone know a good English language source of bamboo joinery? Furniture or construction, it doesn't make much difference. I want to rebuild my cat wheel out of bamboo but The joinery is beyonf my capabilities. Any leads appreciated.

This book claims to be "a vital reference for those of you who want to know more about building with bamboo. It covers bridges, airplane frames, aqueducts, energy storing flywheels, buildings, how to join and anchor bamboo, and much more. "

re: #156 Dianna

Well they agree with me here.

Thinking of my HS Latin teacher.... a real nut, this lady.

Latin fight!

re: #160 reine.de.tout

This book p>

don't know what happened to the rest of my comment.
But the link works - it's a book that claims to be a "vital reference for those of you who want to know more about building with bamboo. It covers bridges, airplane frames, aqueducts, energy storing flywheels, buildings, how to join and anchor bamboo, and much more."

re: #157 ploome hineni

I don't shed a tear for Perfidious Albion

re: #145 Thanos

Here's a link where the dead person is named, which also describes where and why of the riots (10-25 yr olds on the dole, it's near Christmas, rioting was in prime shopping districts, lots of looting...)

[Link: www.irishtimes.com...]

I'm glad it wasn't a "Yoot". Kudos to the Irish Times for printing the name.

But it turns out that the kid did join a mob of thirty young men attacking a police vehicle. Doesn't matter that he was a Greek in Greece; he still acted like a barbaros. Parents? Tell your kids not to do that.

re: #159 ploome hineni

hey Moe

we been missing you..hope everything is ok

Hey Moe
I agree with Ploome.

re: #164 ploome hineni

I think Deepak Chopre and Carter are one and the same wacko

Two bodies, one mind, no clue.

re: #165 ploome hineni

so touts

did you see the polish?

Not yet, I go on Wednesday (standing appt every other Wed, 10:30 a.m.). Will look for it then.

re: #165 ploome hineni

so touts

did you see the polish?

btw - how are you doing tonight?

re: #109 lawhawk

One further point on this - it's the fact that you can trace the success of Camp David in 1979 to a personality that continues to drive the whole notion of peace being achievable. It's why the US and others will prop up people like Abbas, hoping that they will somehow morph into a Sadat.

Thereafter everyone is looking for the personality to get it done, hoping that Arafat will change his spots/stripes, that Abbas will be somethign more than a tool, and that someone will emerge from the Palestinian morass to rise above the terrorism and the destructive and corrosive rhetoric.

Not.Gonna.Happen.

Decades of destructive cultural indoctrination demanding nothing less than Israel's destruction will do that.

King Hussein of Jordan was able to rise above it, just as Sadat did - and Hussein was closer to Israel for a longer period of time than Sadat.

Assad has all kinds of reasons to make a peace deal with Israel, but he will never pull the trigger on a deal because he would have to incur the wrath of Iran/Hizbullah. Even if it is the right thing for his country, the jihadis would never forgive or forget; and Assad's fate would be that of Sadat.

That's also a reason why there's little chance that a personality will emerge - the assassination of Sadat short circuited the possibility because there are so few people among the Palestinians (to date - zero) willing to stand up against the terrorists with all the guns and say that it is insanity to continue seeking Israel's destruction and seeking a 1-state solution - a Palestinian terror regime where Israel once stood.

re: #160 reine.de.tout

This book is a vital reference for those of you who want to know more about building with bamboo. It covers bridges, airplane frames, aqueducts, energy storing flywheels, buildings, how to join and anchor bamboo, and much more.

Hmmm. That seems to be what I'm looking for but the $80 price tag is a problem. Maybe I'll put that on my X-mas list and hope that Santa comes through. Thanks, very good tip.

re: #161 Moe Katz

Well they agree with me here.

Thinking of my HS Latin teacher.... a real nut, this lady.

My Jesuit professor is probably ready to wring my neck.

Damn, I'm just losing it tonight!

re: #168 reine.de.tout

Hey Moe
I agree with Ploome.

I'm touched. Was trying, like Obama, to cut down on a habit :)

re: #177 ploome hineni

I am having bronchial spasm..feel very tight

and cough wne I lie down

today I got some nyquil.hopethat helps

See the DOCTOR TOMORROW.
I'm yelling, I know.
Please listen.

re: #176 Moe Katz

I'm touched. Was trying, like Obama, to cut down on a habit :)

Yes, but why? This habit is good for you!

Hello Lizards! It was cold again in the Very Far Western Suburbs of Chicagoland today.

LA Lizards, Please check this out.

How are you-all and what are we talking about?

re: #177 ploome hineni

I am having bronchial spasm..feel very tight

and cough wne I lie down

today I got some nyquil.hopethat helps

Oh, no!

Do you have someone to look after you, or are you relying on your beasties?

re: #153 Dark_Falcon

Here's a short "Butcher's Bill" if Carter's nightmarish version of how to bring peace to the Middle East was fully implemented:

1) All of Israel
2) A Democratic Iraq
3) Virtually everyone who doesn't want to be part of a new Islamic Caliphate in the Middle East.

re: #179 reine.de.tout

Yes, but why? This habit is good for you!

Yes, in moderation :) I have obsessive tendencies, I think.

re: #174 Killgore Trout

Check your library. Maybe they'll order it if it's not on the shelf.
/I heard that! Who just called me cheap?

re: #182 Dianna

Oh, no!

Do you have someone to look after you, or are you relying on your beasties?

My glasses need new reading correction.
I thought for a minute you were trying to start a new boob thread.
Saberry will be popping in any minute now.

re: #9 Killgore Trout

Too little too late. They will launch another attack in 6 months to a year. So it goes. I'm still in favor of Pakistan losing it's sovereignty. They are a problem and will continue to export terrorism unless somebody takes care of the problem.

I don't see how that will happen unless India does it. The UN is worthless, NATO isn't much better, and The One has yet to make any definitive statements at all on the subject, much less any other subject.

Oh, wait. We know he likes waffles.

For the US to act, it'll either be before Jan. 20 or after the next major attack in US territory.

re: #185 Abu Bin Squid

When I was a Grad student I could get stuff on "academic loan" but I'm not sure my local library will be muck help. Interesting idea though.

re: #175 Dianna

My Jesuit professor is probably ready to wring my neck.

Damn, I'm just losing it tonight!

Your Jesuit professor is probably in the next world, where he is smiling beatifically on your little mistake.

re: #181 buzzsawmonkey

England's follies include most of its academia (not that ours are much better, if at all).

/People like Chris Hitchens (for the most part), notwithstanding.

re: #157 ploome hineni

you must know my thoughts about Britain

Britain entered another dimension when the old schoolboys found the arabs liked pederasty

Lawrence of Arabia and Glubb Pasha...killing Jews for arabs while Britain held the Palestine Mandate IN TRUST

as homeland for the Jews

the Brits haven;t been fked enough

yet

Please do not curse my home country for the actions of a few snobs who never spoke for me or for my family.

re: #165 ploome hineni

How are you feeling?

re: #189 ploome hineni

why

don;t scare me

Anything in the bronchial area can lead to pnuemonia. You need something stronger (read PERSCRIPTION) than over the counter NyGuil

re: #186 reine.de.tout

My glasses need new reading correction.
I thought for a minute you were trying to start a new boob thread.
Saberry will be popping in any minute now.

No, I'm worried about ploome. I remember that she has animals; when they start crouch around you, looking anxious, it's time to yell for help.

re: #187 ploome hineni

well,aren;t I the fool

it's only lingering sillinesses..

of course

Forgot to refresh... :hugs:

re: #172 ploome hineni

Fuck the frogs. Not one drop of American blood should be spilled to spare them the consequences of their actions.

I hereby declare Pakistan non-sovereign territory, the Wild West, like Zimbabwe, lacking a government in control.

/have at it civilized world

And, apparently, forgot to refresh again. :^(

bed time for me.

re: #189 ploome hineni

why

don;t scare me

Bronchial spasms can lead to pneumonia. They're not minor.

See your doctor tomorrow.

re: #173 lawhawk

Of course, if an Arab politician does stand up and seek peace with Israel, then as you mentioned, they would be assassinated on the spot, just as Sadat. Unfortunately, this fact will never change; its easy for anyone who wants to to see exactly what Palestinian textbooks are teaching young children, and exactly the hateful and fanatical culture that is being promoted in the entire region (Charles has this on one of the sideshows on the left). What makes anyone think that a whole culture would accept the desire of one or two Arab politicians to seek peace with their ultimate enemy, Israel?

Europe is the biggest culprit in criticism of Israel, and soon they are going to see exactly what Islam is when Europe becomes Eurabia.

re: #177 ploome hineni

I am having bronchial spasm..feel very tight

and cough wne I lie down

Please go see a doctor.

re: #196 Dianna

No, I'm worried about ploome. I remember that she has animals; when they start crouch around you, looking anxious, it's time to yell for help.

I'm worried about Ploome, too, so is Mandy.
She needs to see a doctor, and needs to do it tomorrow, imo.

For people suffering from "starvation" they sure seem to have piles and piles of candy not to mention sex toys.

re: #207 reine.de.tout

I'm worried about Ploome, too, so is Mandy.
She needs to see a doctor, and needs to do it tomorrow, imo.

Add my voice to the chorus.

re: #157 ploome hineni

you must know my thoughts about Britain

Britain entered another dimension when the old schoolboys found the arabs liked pederasty

Lawrence of Arabia and Glubb Pasha...killing Jews for arabs while Britain held the Palestine Mandate IN TRUST

as homeland for the Jews

the Brits haven;t been fked enough

yet

Just out of curiosity, when did Lawrence fight Jews?

re: #180 ggt

Hello Lizards! It was cold again in the Very Far Western Suburbs of Chicagoland today.

LA Lizards, Please check this out.

How are you-all and what are we talking about?

That's great! Will pass it on. Sending to some prosecutors right now.

GO TO THE DOCTOR, PLOOME.

re: #204 ploome hineni

they are actually

dammit

I'm not a doctor. But I spent September and October fighting bronchial issues, and I got really, really sick.

Please go see your doctor in the morning. And if you start wheezing, don't wait, call for help and go to the ER.

re: #183 mitthrawnurdo

Here's a short "Butcher's Bill" if Carter's nightmarish version of how to bring peace to the Middle East was fully implemented:

1) All of Israel
2) A Democratic Iraq
3) Virtually everyone who doesn't want to be part of a new Islamic Caliphate in the Middle East.

I know that. That's why I'd like to bury him head-first in a rabbit warren and then leave him there. In the real world, I'd settle for peacefully eliminating his influence for good and for all.

re: #204 ploome hineni

please get help ploome--we are all concerned

re: #207 reine.de.tout

I'm worried about Ploome, too, so is Mandy.
She needs to see a doctor, and needs to do it tomorrow, imo.

Yes, she does.

I'm over-sensitive about this, right now, because of what I went through earlier this fall.

re: #137 Charles

The reason why every Arab-Israeli "peace initiative" has failed is simple -- and it's the reason why every such initiative will continue to fail.

The Arabs do not want peace. They want Israel destroyed, and they will say and do anything to achieve that goal. "Do anything" includes signing treaties and peace agreements that they have no intention of honoring.

Western idiots continue to treat the Arab League as if they're honest brokers, acting surprised and shocked when they break their agreements or blaming it on renegade terrorists, when the truth is that this problem goes all the way from the bottom (the Arab Street) to the top (the dictators who live like kings).

Until Western nations understand this simple fact, and start formulating policies that take reality into account instead of policies based on fantasies, nothing is going to change.

It's a hamster wheel of tragic, insane proportions.

Moonbats keep blabbering about the "Saudi 'Peace' Initiative" even though it is really "Saudi Terms of Unconditional Surrender"

re: #204 ploome hineni

they are actually

dammit

OK, so that's Dianna, Mandy, Moe and Reine.
You can't fight all of us.
See the doc tomorrow, Ploome, please.

re: #190 Killgore Trout

Our library system, SWAN, here in NW IL is an easy mark. I send preemptive emails complaining pointing out I can't swing a cat without hitting a Clinton book. They came through with David Freddso's book about Obambi.
/I love the smell of a new book

Look for the market to open up tomorrow.

The futures show the DOW up 1.27%, the S&P up 1.46% and the NASDAQ up 1.55%.

The Hang Seng is up 5.63% and the Nikkei is up 2.7%.

Now, if we can only keep Obama, Paulson and Bernanke away from microphones tomorrow, we might have a good day.

re: #218 reine.de.tout

OK, so that's Dianna, Mandy, Moe and Reine.
You can't fight all of us.
See the doc tomorrow, Ploome, please.

It's health decision by committee, on the internet, but we are right.

Please, ploome.

re: #210 Cognito

Just out of curiosity, when did Lawrence fight Jews?

Good point. Lawrence just screwed the Jews over and favored the Arabs, he didn't actually attack them.

re: #216 Dianna

Yes, she does.

I'm over-sensitive about this, right now, because of what I went through earlier this fall.

I understand.
I lived with something similar for 12 years, until the figured out what was wrong with me and what to do about it. Pure misery. And if not treated, can become chronic. Listening, Ploome?

re: #222 Dianna

It's health decision by committee, on the internet, but we are right.

Please, ploome.

I concur. See a doctor.

OK--whats the worst threat we can send to ploome--should we all sent mandy out to deliver a WHACK in person? or send one of our gun enthusiates in person?

re: #224 reine.de.tout

I understand.
I lived with something similar for 12 years, until the figured out what was wrong with me and what to do about it. Pure misery. And if not treated, can become chronic. Listening, Ploome?

Yes, these days I walk around with an inhaler, just in case.

I don't need it often, but when I need it, boy, I need it bad.

Go, ploome.
I always fight it, too, but some times you have to just go.

re: #116 Killian Bundy

/all they need is in flight refueling and overflight clearance, I do believe they've already acquired the required penetrator ordnance

IIRC Iraq has already given them overflight clearance for whatever they want to do.

Ah, my clock is telling me it's time for me to get some sleep in a losing battle to preserve what beauty is left LOL.

Good night, all!

re: #207 reine.de.tout

I'm worried about Ploome, too, so is Mandy.
She needs to see a doctor, and needs to do it tomorrow, imo.

go to the doctor...trust me, i've had pneumonia 3 times and it damn near killed me twice.

GO TO THE DOCTOR.

re: #220 3 wood

Fat chance, friend (on keeping the afformentioned people away from the media).

re: #231 reine.de.tout

Nite r.d.t.

re: #232 coldwarrior

That's just what I was thinking. I have a fried hospitalized with pneumonia right now.

Please go, Ploome.

re: #220 3 wood

What happens to the market when Obambi is sworn in? Complete bloodbath?

re: #3 sngnsgt

Freedom fighters!

Foo Fighters!

re: #227 mikeymom

OK--whats the worst threat we can send to ploome--should we all sent mandy out to deliver a WHACK in person? or send one of our gun enthusiates in person?

Nah. We'll recruit a local evangelical Christian with a British accent. He'll annoy her while he helps her. Every breath she takes to argue will help her.

/That is very definitely a joke.

re: #220 3 wood

Look for the market to open up tomorrow.

The futures show the DOW up 1.27%, the S&P up 1.46% and the NASDAQ up 1.55%.

The Hang Seng is up 5.63% and the Nikkei is up 2.7%.

Now, if we can only keep Obama, Paulson and Bernanke away from microphones tomorrow, we might have a good day.

i got out in early september :)

OT: The 12 Days of Christmas Holiday?!? What?!?

Are these now the official "Three Amigos of America" ...

McCain visited the country with Sen. Joe Lieberman and Sen. Lindsey Graham, all members of the Senate Armed Services Committee. The three have also visited Iraq, India and Pakistan in the last several days.

President-elect Barack Obama asked McCain to report back to him on what the three learn, Lieberman said.

[Link: www.google.com...]

re: #237 Iron Fist

"In the end...there will be only chaos."

All I want for Christmas is Natanz.

/and seriously, I don't really care who [expletive deleted] it up, just so it gets [expletive deleted] up

Just saw the highlights of the Steelers - Cowboys game.

Memo to Tony Romo, Cowboys QB:

When the coach says to throw the ball to the open man, he means someone wearing the same uniform you are.

re: #211 Pvt Bin Jammin

The Mom was on Fox tonite. An American Soldier's son gunned down on his own street by an illegal alien, gangbanger.

Perhaps that is enough to get the moonbats to crack-down on the criminals who are here illegally. Why does everything have to be political?

re: #230 Steffan

IIRC Iraq has already given them overflight clearance for whatever they want to do.

/hard to believe considering we're in complete control of their airspace

re: #239 Dianna

could you send me a cute sexy 30 yr old sexy guy to help with my smoking?

re: #203 traderjoe9

They already are. Remember da yooots in the banlieus burning cars?

re: #243 mitthrawnurdo

Chaos? I'm your huckelberry...

Or non servium...

re: #236 Pvt Bin Jammin

That's just what I was thinking. I have a fried hospitalized with pneumonia right now.

Please go, Ploome.

i had foreign object, viral, and bacterial pneumonia. the bacterial was the worst. i got to experience some pretty exotic anti-biotics.

re: #246 ggt

The Mom was on Fox tonite. An American Soldier's son gunned down on his own street by an illegal alien, gangbanger.

Perhaps that is enough to get the moonbats to crack-down on the criminals who are here illegally. Why does everything have to be political?

Nope.

re: #245 3 wood

Just saw the highlights of the Steelers - Cowboys game.

Memo to Tony Romo, Cowboys QB:

When the coach says to throw the ball to the open man, he means someone wearing the same uniform you are.

I'll say it again. Romo = Danny White

re: #177 ploome hineni

Ploome, if there's an urgent care clinic anywhere near you, go there. Now.

re: #248 mikeymom

omg--just remembered they say smoking is an oral fixation- will i get banned? (or updinged by like minded ladies?)

re: #249 Steffan

They already are. Remember da yooots in the banlieus burning cars?

Yah, but that's nothing. Its going to progress into something absolutely terrible...if anybody wants to really travel Europe they better do so pretty quickly (we're going there this summer!) because its going to be a Muslim majority in a mere 20 years.

re: #223 Dark_Falcon

Good point. Lawrence just screwed the Jews over and favored the Arabs, he didn't actually attack them.

From what I've read about Lawrence, he was actually a great friend to Jews. His focus and expertise lay with Arab tribes, of course -- which isn't a bad thing, in itself -- but he worked hard to bring the two groups together.

He even helped push the French out of Syria and arrange for Jewish backing of Faisal, a major advantage to Zionists of the day.

The thing to bear in mind, for me at least, is that the mood was a great deal different in, say, 1917 than it is today.

And, of course, it's always possible I'm ignorant of some of Lawrence's worse behaviors...

re: #253 jorline

I'll say it again. Romo = Danny White

love my STEELERS!

re: #248 mikeymom

could you send me a cute sexy 30 yr old sexy guy to help with my smoking?

I've got a former marine who's working for my Male, who's cute and smart. Would he do?

Just remember, he's got to keep working for my Male, so I can't send him far.

re: #254 ploome hineni

ok

too late now tomorrow am it is

Good.

I'll be checking in on LGF to see how you're doing.

re: #246 ggt

It's such a mess here (other cities too). Several family members of mine work for the District Attorney's office. SO many perps are illegals, it is unbelievable.