How dare he say such lunacy! He must be a chickenhawk.

/sarc

Not good considering both countries are nuclear armed.

Well, surely settling the Kashmir issued once and for all, assuming India is willing to make concessions, will end the terrorist threat.

/

I'm colorblind...which button is the red one?

//

I think many in India would like to make Pakistan the epicenter for something else...

Seriously. Good luck Barry.

Iran, Pakistan, and Saudi Arabia; the real axis of evil!

Well Duh! No Shit! I'm Shocked! I'm Appalled!

Take your pick.

Well, if we could get the international community to deal with one epicenter of terrorism, that would be progress. It would be progress for the international community to recognize there even is such a thing as terrorism or a war thereon...

re: #3 NYCHardhat

Not good considering both countries are nuclear armed.

I'm sure Pakistan's launch codes are simpler than India's...not good!

I didn't know Pakistan had stockpiles of powdered milk

File under even a blind dog finds a bone to dig up once in awhile.

re: #12 jorline

I'm sure Pakistan's launch codes are simpler than India's...not good!

12345

re: #7 NYCHardhat

Seriously. Good luck Barry.

It appears that Joe Biden was right. Even a blind hog gets an acorn once in a while.

Take a page Barry:

Ah jus want to put the politics of personal destruction behind us and get back to screwing working for the American people.

/Woah, stomach...

re: #16 NYCHardhat

12345

Sounds like what an idiot would use on his luggage

re: #13 wiffersnapper

I didn't know Pakistan had stockpiles of powdered milk

IIRC, that was Hamas and the Gaza tunnels.
/

Saudis supply the money and materiel, Pakistan the cannon fodder.

re: #17 ErnieG

It appears that Joe Biden was right. Even a blind hog gets an acorn once in a while.

We didn't need Joe Biden to tell us that.

re: #16 NYCHardhat

12345

Yep

re: #19 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Sounds like what an idiot would use on his luggage

Thata amazing! I have the same code on my luggage!

re: #12 jorline

I'm sure Pakistan's launch codes are simpler than India's...not good!

Lucky 7's?

re: #24 NYCHardhat

Thata amazing! I have the same code on my luggage!

Funny, you dont look Druish.

re: #8 Lizard by the Bay

Iran, Pakistan, and Saudi Arabia; the real axis of evil!

The real axis of evil is all radical Muslim period, no matter what country they reside in. And these countries should get us to the idea that their own existence is in jeopardy.

The Mullahs in Iran are jumping up and down pissed off saying "What about us?"

My combo was always "80085"

/sorry, old Junior High calculator joke

There are at least four major epicenters of terrorism (in no particular order):

1) Saudi Arabia
2) Pakistan
3) Iran
4) Indonesia

Saudi money has fueled jihad all over the planet, from Pakistan and Afghanistan to terrorist groups in the Middle East, Yemen, Somalia, and against Israel.

Pakistan's terror factories provide jihadis for the conflict in Afghanistan and to attack India and the West.

Iran wants to establish primacy in the Middle East, and will use its proxy terrorists Hizbullah and its long necked stooge in Syria to increase its power. They fund terrorism in Lebanon, Syria, and Gaza among other places.

Indonesia is a hotbed of al Qaeda affiliated jihadis who are itching to spread their murder and mayhem beyond the region as well.

Failed states are a great incubator for jihad - including Afghanistan, Somalia, Yemen, Lebanon, etc. That's where the foot thugs often originate.

When I lived in Pakistan, I noticed right off that it was the epicenter of economic disaster. They have been systematically dismantling all of the progress made by the British occupation, whereas India embraced it and and has capitalized on it. Have you wondered why the call centers are in India and not Pakistan?

So are there any "Muslim" countries that are politically and/or economically stable? No? Gee, what is the common denominator in almost all of the world's conflicts?

Pakistan will always be a thorn in India's side. At least India admits Pakistan is the problem instead of cuddling up to it.

re: #11 harrylook

Well, if we could get the international community to deal with one epicenter of terrorism, that would be progress. It would be progress for the international community to recognize there even is such a thing as terrorism or a war thereon...

Why limit that to the International Community. What about the Democratic party and our presumptive President Elect? He wants to go to some Muslim Capital and make nicely-nicely with them?

Barry's beloved POK- ee-STAN just hasn't had the benefit of his Happy Talk to convert the terrorists to the newly enhanced image of America and the West.

re: #30 Lizard by the Bay

My combo was always "80085"

/sorry, old Junior High calculator joke

boobs ha.

re: #7 NYCHardhat Indeed. I wish Obama the VERY BEST OF LUCK for our sakes, in dealing with two nuclear armed enemies that have always been enemies since Pakistan was founded.
This is a very grave situation - the Pakistani's may try to do the right thing about the terrorists, but they WILL defend themselves against any attack by India.

re: #16 NYCHardhat

I should really change my password.

I would argue the Koran is the epicenter of terrorism, but that's just me.

DEARBORN, TAMPA, OKLAHOMA CITY, LACKAWANNA, ISLAMBERG...

(paraphrasing Claude Rains)

"I am shocked, just shocked, I tell you, that terrorism is being nutured in this peaceful islamic republic of Pakistan."

re: #32 father_of_10

When I lived in Pakistan, I noticed right off that it was the epicenter of economic disaster. They have been systematically dismantling all of the progress made by the British occupation, whereas India embraced it and and has capitalized on it. Have you wondered why the call centers are in India and not Pakistan?

So are there any "Muslim" countries that are politically and/or economically stable? No? Gee, what is the common denominator in almost all of the world's conflicts?

Poverty! Injustice! Despair!

Man, I just got up and the first headline I see is that 14 alleged Islamic extremists
detained in Belgium!
Turned out they might have been planning a ''suicide'' attack while 27 EU leaders were meeting there.
Did they come from Pakistan?
Were they ''home grown" al Qaeda?
No...

The investigation centered on people linked to Nizar Trabelsi, a 37-year-old Tunisian sentenced to 10 years in prison in 2003 for planning to a drive a car bomb into the cafeteria of a Belgian air base where about 100 American military personnel are stationed.

Security services in several European nations suspect Trabelsi, who trained with al-Qaida in Afghanistan, had links with extremists in Britain, France and elsewhere in Europe.
...
they included Moroccan-born Malika El Aroud, a 48-year-old Belgian who writes online in French under the name of Oum Obeyda. (her first husband died in the suicide attack in Afghanistan that killed anti-Taliban warlord Ahmed Shah Massoud.)

Link:
[Link: www.sfgate.com...]

re: #12 jorline

I'm sure Pakistan's launch codes are simpler than India's...not good!

But if their tech support is in India, they're screwed. "Hello, my name is George. How may I help you?"

re: #39 Oh no...Sand People!

I would argue the Koran is the epicenter of terrorism, but that's just me.

The cult of peace.

Actually, the epicenter is Russia.

Pakistan, Saudi are just proxies.

How is all this Illinois corruption repair and enhancing our reputation in the world?

re: #42 MandyManners

Poverty! Injustice! Despair! Nearsightedness! Hemorrhoids!

So are we going to let the UN deal with this one too?

re: #30 Lizard by the Bay

My combo was always "80085"

/sorry, old Junior High calculator joke

You hijacking this tread and turning it into a boobs thread? Ha

re: #36 NYCHardhat

boobs ha.

Speaking of Boobs, I saw that Obama and Gore had a meeting on Tuesday.

I think Oh no...Sand People! is on to something at comment #39.
The Koran seems to have more to do with terrorism than any one country or part of the earth.

re: #47 DistantThunder

How is all this Illinois corruption repairing and enhancing our reputation in the world?

re: #49 notutopia

So are we going to let the UN deal with this one too?

Why not it will soon have cabinet level influence?

Posted this earlier.

Iran wants to devour the Arab world

Mubarak accused the Islamic Republic of trying to subsume its Muslim neighbors, telling the forum that "the Persians are trying to devour the Arab states."

Mubarak's comments came after the Egyptian leader recalled the country's diplomatic envoy from the Iranian capital earlier this week following an increase in tension between the two countries.

Recent strain between Cairo and Teheran has grown as several demonstrations in Iran called for the hanging of the Egyptian leader. The Iranian FARS news service reported that participants in recent student demonstrations outside the Egyptian diplomatic mission in Teheran also chanted "Death to Israel" and "Death to America" and burned an Israeli flag.

Middle East = Powder keg with a short fuse.

re: #51 Ozark Mountain Daredevil

Speaking of Boobs, I saw that Obama and Gore had a meeting on Tuesday.

This thread had the potential to become a boob thread, but with the invoking of Barry and John Carree, it will swirl down to be an *ssh*le thread.

re: #48 father_of_10

Ill-fitting undies!

re: #51 Ozark Mountain Daredevil

Speaking of Boobs, I saw that Obama and Gore had a meeting on Tuesday.

And Jennifer Aniston is posing naked!

[Link: blogs.nypost.com...]

re: #30 Lizard by the Bay

splain please...we weren't allowed to use calculators in my Catholic school.

re: #46 faraway

Actually, the epicenter is Russia.

Pakistan, Saudi are just proxies.

What?

re: #55 jorline
Has been for a long time now, my friend.
And while I understand everone's concerns about two natural born enemies with nuclear weapons, I really think Saudi Arabia is the true epicenter.

re: #32 father_of_10

The ROP ... I'm way upthread so sorry to repeat what has already been posted.

Saudis invented Wahabism and because they have so much money floating around, they have plenty of closet Islamists contributing to Islamic "charities", but as a general rule, the Islamists make no bones about wanting to oust the Saudi rulers.

I don't think the Saudi government is actively promoting terrorism. What they do is just pretend that it has nothing to do with their religion.

Iran on the other hand is a much bigger threat than either Saudi or Pakistan, IMHO.

Pakistan would be like Saudi if they had oil riches, and Saudi would be like Pakistan if they didn't. Iran would fund terrorist in any one of them.

re: #59 notutopia

splain please...we weren't allowed to use calculators in my Catholic school.

Nothing to 'splain, it just spells "BOOBS"

Hobsen's choice on the table for POTUS, both the current and the elected if it doesn't blow up in next 39 days.

Let the Pakistan / Indian issue escalate with the chance of nuclear exchange.

Intervene directly in Pakistan to mollify Indian, and further push Pakistan into the radical camp.

The line that needs to be threaded in between those to is exceedingly fine and fraught with booby traps.

re: #51 Ozark Mountain Daredevil

Speaking of Boobs, I saw that Obama and Gore had a meeting on Tuesday.

The most eloquent public speaker of our time meeting with the most boring public speaker of our time.

And all the while, Obama wants to reboot how the world views America. Kowtow to dictators and thugs who rule most of the Muslim world? Yeah, that's got to be it, because the only other way to ingratiate yourself with that crowd is to serve up Israel on a silver platter - and that's for starters.

re: #30 Lizard by the Bay

My combo was always "80085"

/sorry, old Junior High calculator joke

You should see that on an abacus.
/

I can forgive Singh for calling Pakistan "the" epicenter.

That said ... perhaps the politicians should take a breather and let the professionals handle the situation.

re: #46 faraway
Um, come again?

re: #68 Oh no...Sand People!

You should see that on an abacus.
/

Could that be called a "nice rack"?

/rimshot

re: #19 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Sounds like what an idiot would use on his luggage

Hey...that is my luggage code. Thanks for like, letting the world know...
:)

re: #15 taxfreekiller

OT
Al Gore etal,

Whats up with this.?

[Link: www.nola.com...]

didnt you get the memo?
Its "climate change" now. It covers our asses whether we get a cold phenomena or heat phenomena or just regularly distributed hurricanes, blizzards, sunshine, santa anna winds, heat in the desert, cold in the mountains.

We are in 1992 again. Only less stabilized in the middle east.

re: #61 realwest

Has been for a long time now, my friend.
And while I understand everone's concerns about two natural born enemies with nuclear weapons, I really think Saudi Arabia is the true epicenter.

They probably provide most of the funds, but they don't dirty their hands by allowing the terrorist training centers and madrassahs on their soil. They are hypocrites, kinda like democrats.

re: #66 ErnieG

The most eloquent public speaker of our time meeting with the most boring public speaker of our time.

He's not eloquent. He's scripted.

re: #4 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Well, surely settling the Kashmir issued once and for all, assuming India is willing to make concessions, will end the terrorist threat.

/

In the case of Kashmir, a settlement acceptable to both India and Pakistan, if such is possible, probably would end the tension between those two countries. Excepting the recent attack on Mumbai, most of the Paki based terrorism has been carried out in Kashmir itself.

Our friends the Saudis are pretty accomplished at funding and exporting extremist Islam around the world, too, and it’s a continuing mistake to ignore them.

True statement.

The sooner the Western world recognizes this and takes the appropriate action the better off we will all be. The Saudis have been funding terrorism since the early 20th century as well as providing the philosophical beliefs and tenets the jihadist are dying for.

Hard to forget that most of the 9/11 assault team were Saudis.

re: #71 Lizard by the Bay

Could that be called a "nice rack"?

/rimshot

Sometimes if something is funny I will type lol, but this time I did, I actually laughed out loud.
The /rimshot added to it. Bravo.

re: #65 jcm
Hey jcm - how the hell do WE intervene in Pakistan?
I wasn't joking when I said Pakistan WILL defend itself, against India or anyone else.

I know full well what the Indian press would say if GWB made a similar comment about any country.

re: #64 Lizard by the Bay
My combo was always "80085"
/sorry, old Junior High calculator joke

Boobs...eh, Maybe that's why I didn't need a calculator...

Our friends the Saudis are pretty accomplished at funding and exporting extremist Islam around the world, too, and it’s a continuing mistake to ignore them.

I don't want to ignore them either. But my idea of not ignoring them involves invading their territory and installing a real government. And of course there's the problem of taking and occupying those so-called holy cities. While I don't have a problem with "defiling" those dumps with "infidel" troops, some of our fellow civilized allies may be a bit squeamish about that part of the operation. We may have to hire a Muslim force to go into that zone. (Perhaps its time to put the Hashemites back in charge there.)

Peace is what happens when you run out of targets.

re: #42 MandyManners

Poverty! Injustice! Despair!

Its all the Jews fault. If they would just not subject the Palis to such horrid conditions, the rest of the muslims would be well educated and prosperous. As it is, they live in physical empathy.

/

re: #77 Son of the Black Dog

In the case of Kashmir, a settlement acceptable to both India and Pakistan, if such is possible, probably would end the tension between those two countries. Excepting the recent attack on Mumbai, most of the Paki based terrorism has been carried out in Kashmir itself.

Well as soon as Messiah Obama solves the Palestinian problem, I am sure Kashmir is next on his list?

re: #78 Outrider

Exactly, stop coddling the damn Saudi's!

re: #85 Nevergiveup

Well as soon as Messiah Obama solves the Palestinian problem, I am sure Kashmir is next on his list?

Yup! He'll suggest making 2 states out of it.

re: #79 Oh no...Sand People!

Thank you kindly. I'm here all week. Be sure to tip your waitress.

With more than 40.000 madrassas working hard to produce peace-loving students, a corrupted and very shadowy secret service with suspicious connections, and nukes: Pakistan scares the hell out of me.

The world always looks to Iran, Syria and - most ludicrously - Libya for the epicenter, but you are right. Pakistan and Suadi.

Saudi for the money. Pakistan for the anger.

To think so many young Indians who've worked so hard in civilian call centers assisting Westerners with technology questions will now have to turn into fighters.

It's an honor to call Indian an ally in this struggle. Anyone who takes this threat seriously and puts their money & best citizens where their mouth is, gets my respect.

Except for Deepak Chopra who is a Tokyo Rose.

re: #12 jorline

I'm sure Pakistan's launch codes are simpler than India's...not good!

Pakistan's launch codes: Achmed and Abdul, get a donkey. Put this on its back, and send it to India. Or you two can carry it, for extra virgins.

Looks like Dr. Rice's trip to India might not have succeeded in keeping the lid on things. When Pervy Musharraf was in Pakistan (sorry, Pahkeestaahn) he kept that pot of devils in order, somehow. The situation looks like it may fly apart. The jihadniks in Afghanistan must be pleased; no Pakistan, no supply lines for our side.

re: #83 The Other Les

Peace is what happens when you run out of targets.

ha...LOL. I love that...

re: #75 Nevergiveup Well the "they" in the Magic Kingdom have been using
others to accomplish their goals for them becase, other than all the money from all the oil, they can't do anything themselves. They aren't hypocrites they just use proxies to do their dirty work.

re: #83 The Other Les

Our friends the Saudis are pretty accomplished at funding and exporting extremist Islam around the world, too, and it’s a continuing mistake to ignore them.

I don't want to ignore them either. But my idea of not ignoring them involves invading their territory and installing a real government. And of course there's the problem of taking and occupying those so-called holy cities. While I don't have a problem with "defiling" those dumps with "infidel" troops, some of our fellow civilized allies may be a bit squeamish about that part of the operation. We may have to hire a Muslim force to go into that zone. (Perhaps its time to put the Hashemites back in charge there.)

Peace is what happens when you run out of targets.

I hate that! How is it that every third world dive in the Middle East is reported as a 'holy city'? The MSM hates religion. You never see the MSM call rome the 'holy city'.

re: #87 father_of_10

Yup! He'll suggest making 2 states out of it.

Yeah, that's working out so well between Israel and the Palistinians, why not?

re: #42 MandyManners

Poverty! Injustice! Despair!

Yes, indeed, it is!

The poverty of Koran-addled minds, the injustice of being jailed for trying to kill people,
and the despair at not being able to destroy the West and Israel.

lo muslimim, lo matzav...

re: #78 Outrider
Hard to forget that bin Laden was a Saudi too.

Dear Mr. President,

Please grow a pair, be less invasive towards liberty, and cut taxes.

Love,

Hardhat

Hello,
Belmont Club has a thread about BHO explicitly offering Israel the American nuclear umbrella. Presumably that means accepting a nuclear Iran not relying on the Israeli nukes and waiting to absorb a first strike.

re: #16 NYCHardhat

12345

That's the combination on my luggage!

I think those F16's bush promised Pakistan will help mend any past injustices.

And so what if one of 2 manage to evade Indian Air defenses and blow up parliament, again.

re: #95 realwest

Well the "they" in the Magic Kingdom have been using
others to accomplish their goals for them becase, other than all the money from all the oil, they can't do anything themselves. They aren't hypocrites they just use proxies to do their dirty work.

I think we are on the same page and will not quibble over words.

re: #63 Naso Tang

The Saudis didn't invent Wahabbism. Abdul Aziz ibn Saud, the founder of the House of Saud, cut a deal with the followers of Muhammad ibn Abd al-Wahhab, who had begun preaching back in the 1700's.

re: #92 Kosh's Shadow
I do wish it were that simple, but Pakistan does have missiles which can carry nuclear warheads (which Pakistan does have) to hit any target in India - and Afghanistan.
I still don't know WTF the US can do here. This is extremely scary.

re: #95 realwest

What is the Root of the problem?
I believe.. There is no solution until the Muslim religion is reformed.
Every religion has always required reform...This is no different.
in my most humble opinion...

re: #61 realwest

Has been for a long time now, my friend.
And while I understand everone's concerns about two natural born enemies with nuclear weapons, I really think Saudi Arabia is the true epicenter.

Ironic that but for a geologic/geographic accident, i.e. oil, they'd be a bunch of goat-herds of no consequence to the world...
They still are goat-herds but very rich ones with the ability to make lots of trouble.

re: #104 Nevergiveup
Agree with you absolutely.

re: #107 HoosierHoops

What is the Root of the problem?
I believe.. There is no solution until the Muslim religion is reformed.
Every religion has always required reform...This is no different.
in my most humble opinion...

Convert them to loving and forgiving people.

re: #91 alegrias

It's an honor to call India an ally in this struggle. Anyone who takes this threat seriously and puts their money & best citizens where their mouth is, gets my respect.

Isn't it interesting, though. It wasn't so long ago that India was our nuclear enemy because they were in bed with the USSR and China, and Pakistan had deep close ties with the UK and hated the USSR for what they were pulling in Afghanistan.

re: #3 NYCHardhat

Start the warheads and missiles, maybe?
Oh and Charles is right; to identify one country as "the epicenter of terrorism" is just silly.

The goo goos of the Democratic Party tossed out Musharraf. This is turning out as less successful than their 1963 elimination of Ngo Dien Diem in Vietnam.

re: #92 Kosh's Shadow

Pakistan's launch codes: Achmed and Abdul, get a donkey. Put this on its back, and send it to India. Or you two can carry it, for extra virgins.

How many virgins, Ahmed?

3 more, Muhammed.

What do they look like? If they look like your sister, forget it!

Ahmed, how do you know what my sister looks like?

Well, I saw her in the backyard hanging up clothes. She had her burka off.

AWWW! I keel my sister! AWWW!

Wait, get someone to rape her first!

re: #80 realwest

Hey jcm - how the hell do WE intervene in Pakistan?
I wasn't joking when I said Pakistan WILL defend itself, against India or anyone else.

That the problem. We can't. But unless something is done about Pakistan in India's point view they will take action, and Pakistan will respond... the only question is how far will it escalate.

We can go after the bad guys in Pakistan, but that will piss off the Pakistani, but that push Pakistan away, emblodens the bad guys and generally makes a bad situation worse. But would help get India on the sidelines.

The line is keep India happy, and on the sidelines, work out a deal with Pakistan where the bad guys get got while not pissing off too many people in Pakistan.

We really can't afford a hot Pakistan / India war.
We can't afford to push Pakistan further into the jihadist camp.

Damned if we do damned if we don't. Unfortunately my confidence in Condi is not that high, my confidence in HRC to pull it off even less.

DAMN.

re: #105 pre-Boomer Marine brat

The Saudis didn't invent Wahabbism. Abdul Aziz ibn Saud, the founder of the House of Saud, cut a deal with the followers of Muhammad ibn Abd al-Wahhab, who had begun preaching back in the 1700's.

Wahabism invented Saudi Arabia

The Doomsday Clock just ticked another tick.

re: #113 lifeofthemind

The goo goos of the Democratic Party tossed out Musharraf. This is turning out as less successful than their 1963 elimination of Ngo Dien Diem in Vietnam.

Or their fantastic idea to sit on their hands while Iran swept away the most Westernized, modern leader in the Middle East and replace him with 12th century throwbacks.

re: #112 davinvalkri

Start the warheads and missiles, maybe?
Oh and Charles is right; to identify one country as "the epicenter of terrorism" is just silly.

I don't think epicenter should be used in regards, to terrorism. I would call terrorism a rash.

re: #76 MandyManners

He's not eloquent. He's scripted.

And you can tell that when he goes off-script. Off-script Obama's a mumbling, stumbling boob who can't put two coherent words together, unless "uhhh" and "errr" have become words.

re: #115 jcm Yep.

re: #67 lawhawk

But... But... What about that 'nuclear umbrella' for Israel?

I suggest we put out the word that Pakistan will be handing out nukes to terrorists, in a specific location, on the Pakistan/Afghanistan border.
When all the terrorists get there, we give them a nuke.
BOOM!

re: #123 Kosh's Shadow

Pffftt...hahhahhah! I wish that would work!

Well y'all gotta go eat lunch - hate that with LGF so hot right now, but food is necessary as are the meds for which the food is a prerequisite!
Hope you all have a good day and that I get the chance to see you all down the road.

re: #123 Kosh's Shadow

I suggest we put out the word that Pakistan will be handing out nukes to terrorists, in a specific location, on the Pakistan/Afghanistan border.
When all the terrorists get there, we give them a nuke.
BOOM!

That would only work once every time!

re: #124 davinvalkri

Pffftt...hahhahhah! I wish that would work!

It would make a nice movie.
Your mission, Jim, should you choose to accept it...

re: #85 Nevergiveup

Well as soon as Messiah Obama solves the Palestinian problem, I am sure Kashmir is next on his list?

Kashmir should be a lot easier to solve than the Pali problem.

/Assuming either is possible.

re: #110 NYCHardhat

Convert them to loving and forgiving people.

Hi Hard hat!
No..you know what I mean.. I have an aunt that is a nun in Chicago...
As a young teen i used to point out how the Catholics could burn you at the stakes and torture you in the Iron Maiden..all for a slight...
I think when the religion is reformed muslims will begin to live up to God's expectations. I know one thing..It won't be this generation...
/ I certainly hope not to offend

re: #101 lifeofthemind

Is that Umbrella going to be extended to India...
And what is this UMBRELLA analogy crap... bailouts, defense,...

re: #107 HoosierHoops

As well as sorting out a few issues, didn't the christian reformation usher in bloodbaths, new waves of puritanism etc?

Not sure if there could be an Islamic reformation anyway, there doesn't seem to be any central authority to rebel against. I suppose Islam will only be reformed by people drifting away from the religion - at least from the hardcore Islamist mindset as time goes on.

re: #129 HoosierHoops

Hi Hard hat!
No..you know what I mean.. I have an aunt that is a nun in Chicago...
As a young teen i used to point out how the Catholics could burn you at the stakes and torture you in the Iron Maiden..all for a slight...
I think when the religion is reformed muslims will begin to live up to God's expectations. I know one thing..It won't be this generation...
/ I certainly hope not to offend

None taken. I feel the christian threat is all talk compared to the muslim threat.

I'm expecting protests and mass seething against India, new terror attacks and the demand for boycotts of products of India as well as a downturn in the demand for customer service offices located there.

re: #107 HoosierHoops

And that root has still not been openly addressed here in the US other than to resist terrorism. Appeasement and sucking into Sharia is not faring so well in Spain, UK, and France.

The Saudi's do bear a heavy burden of responsibility for the terrorism inside and out of Islam today.
Sure they didn't originate Wahhabism, but when they saw what it was they adapted it and exported it to where most of the worlds Muslims have at least one family member/adherant to Wahabbism.
I read many of the stories in Ibn Warrq's Leaving Islam.
I was amazed how one person who adhered to Wahhabism could intimidate an entire extended family into cowering sheep who would beat the very daughter for going to school when they were once PROUD of her for going to that school!

re: #131 Jimmah

It all boils down to this..
More people have died in the name of God than for any other reason in the History of war.
/I am ashamed for mankind

re: #115 jcm

Agreed - and I don't think anyone else has a workable solution either.

Folks from bordering countries/kingdoms have been messing in their neighbors business forever.

The past solution was massive invasion when enough was enough. Somebody won - somebody lost till the next time around.

Nukes do complicate the issue.

re: #116 lifeofthemind

Wahabism invented Saudi Arabia

I'll buy that.

re: #130 notutopia

Is that Umbrella going to be extended to India...
And what is this UMBRELLA analogy crap... bailouts, defense,...

It is like a shell game, promise everything to everybody and reduce the actual capacity to do anything to anybody. Nobody really believes that somebody will do something. Now isn't that clear?

106...

Underlying all the radical islam in Pakistan is tribalism. I'm no expert, but I have heard that their are many factions, some of which hate each other as much as they hate civilization. I also imagine that India almost assuredly has the best intel and contacts in Pakistan. So, maybe India, with aid from the US and a few other western allies can use India's inside people to foment that internal hate, and if were lucky, they start killing each other in droves.

re: #138 pre-Boomer Marine brat

I'll buy that.

For a dollar.
/

re: #128 Son of the Black Dog

Kashmir should be a lot easier to solve than the Pali problem.

/Assuming either is possible.

Kashmir is a replica of the Palestinian problem, and they both use the same playbook, just changing names where needed. They even have an intifada

re: #105 pre-Boomer Marine brat

The Saudis didn't invent Wahabbism. Abdul Aziz ibn Saud, the founder of the House of Saud, cut a deal with the followers of Muhammad ibn Abd al-Wahhab, who had begun preaching back in the 1700's.

Wahabbism had a low following in the early 20th century, until an American educated Saudi caused a resurgence through his preaching.

Can you remember his name as I can't. It starts with a Q. It was prior to the First World War if i recall. He is the one that converted the House of Saud. ;-)>

re: #20 jorline

Yeah, well... dammit...

re: #135 mean Gene

The Saudi's do bear a heavy burden of responsibility for the terrorism inside and out of Islam today.
Sure they didn't originate Wahhabism, but when they saw what it was they adapted it and exported it to where most of the worlds Muslims have at least one family member/adherant to Wahabbism.
I read many of the stories in Ibn Warrq's Leaving Islam.
I was amazed how one person who adhered to Wahhabism could intimidate an entire extended family into cowering sheep who would beat the very daughter for going to school when they were once PROUD of her for going to that school!

Terrific point! I have long argued against the "minority of extremists" theory for this very reason. A small band of armed, passionately committed zealots who do not even value their own lives, much less the lives of others, can control a large majority population. The peaceful Muslims are the easiest converts to their threats.

re: #136 HoosierHoops

It all boils down to this..
More people have died in the name of God than for any other reason in the History of war.
/I am ashamed for mankind

My version of a famous quote:

"Good men do good things, evil men do evil things but for good men to do evil things requires religion or some other utopian ideology."

The idea of the US extending a "nuclear umbrella" to Israel reminds me of this picture

We can't afford to push Pakistan further into jihadist camp?

My lord, like saying we can't push Bin Laden & Chimpinahad back for what they've done and will continue to do.

As bad as it is, and as bad as it can get - does not remove the obligation to stand up to it. Hitler could have been worse too.

re: #146 Jimmah

My version of a famous quote:

"Good men do good things, evil men do evil things but for good men to do evil things requires religion or some other utopian ideology."

If religion did not exist, if all the world were atheist, there would be as much trouble as ever. People would merely rally under different banners, use different rationalizations and justifications.

There will always be people willing to use whatever tools they can to achieve their goals of wealth and/or power.

Epicenter? It is more like "Whack-a-mole." Smash the little bugger in the head and another pops out of a different hole. You just have to keep whacking away.

re: #149 Outrider

I know. That's why I added "or some other utopian ideology".

re: #122 tfc3rid

But... But... What about that 'nuclear umbrella' for Israel?

Gee, that will do wonders for Israel when it's been hit by Iranian nukes that no one wanted to admit were being worked on for all those years. It wont mean much to Iran either - because Israel will already have retaliated against them with Israel's own nuclear arsenal that everyone knows exists but maintains plausible deniability for.

[Link: counterterrorismblog.org...]

Farhana Ali: "A few days after the attacks, I received an email from a source in Pakistan who meets with... the leader of Jamaat-ud-Dawa, the political wing for LeT, and who has family that are hard-core loyalists to Laskhar. He sent me an email on November 30th in which he wrote, 'According to two senior sources within jihadi outfits and as many in the intelligence agencies, the recent terror attacks in different parts of Mumbai…were masterminded by Pakistani intelligence agency ISI... The Lashkar leaders are not accepting the responsibility at official level but they are taking pride is claiming it among their trusted people.'... I think it is very clear that if you look at the LeT’s strategy it is to weaken India and to help establish the caliphate which is part of their ideological program... My sources say at least 23 (attackers)."

re: #151 Jimmah

I know. That's why I added "or some other utopian ideology".

Clear. I am merely tired of religion being bashed as the "cause" of all the worlds strife, when the blame needs to be placed upon the shoulders of the people using religion for their own ends.

re: #149 Outrider

Where religion can be shown to pose a different kind of threat though is in it's staying power, which it acheives by implanting the core memes in each new generation. Political ideologies are at a disadvantage in that sense, for it is by no means guaranteed that the offspring will inherit the political views of the parents. When politics is tied to religion, however, as is the case with Islam, you have the worst of both worlds.

re: #143 Outrider

Wahabbism had a low following in the early 20th century, until an American educated Saudi caused a resurgence through his preaching.

Can you remember his name as I can't. It starts with a Q. It was prior to the First World War if i recall. He is the one that converted the House of Saud. ;-)>

Qtub

Huff Post Headline:

Charles Johnson describes Saudis as "Our Friends".

re: #156 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Qtub

PIMF, typing fast, didn't check for the exact spelling. The first name was Sayed.

He lived and studied in Greeley, Colorado, and thought the churches there were dens of iniquity. He also bitched because he couldn't get a decent haircut here.

want to be able to tell folks what your password is and yet stay secure? change it to "idontknow".

"What's the password to this machine?"
"Idontknow".
"Well, if you don't know who does?"
"I don't know..."

re: #154 Outrider

Clear. I am merely tired of religion being bashed as the "cause" of all the worlds strife, when the blame needs to be placed upon the shoulders of the people using religion for their own ends.

And not all religions are equal, it should also be remembered. I would disagree though when you suggest that no blame should be put on the religion, particularly in the case of Islam. Islam was invented by someone who was using religion for their own ends, as have many prophets of various faiths before and after.

re: #154 Outrider

Clear. I am merely tired of religion being bashed as the "cause" of all the worlds strife, when the blame needs to be placed upon the shoulders of the people using religion for their own ends.

At its basest Death Cult core, Islam actually makes a plausible case for the existence of Evil. With a capital "E".

Pakistan is the result of offering big bribes in return for small favors.

I've got to venture out into the frozen wastes of Scotland now, to get some smokes.

Back later.

re: #156 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Qtub

Thank you. I had it on my files on my old lap top. But didn't transfer over. ;-)>

re: #160 Jimmah
And #161 JohnAdams

Lot in that, yes.

Is this the test that Vice President-elect OBiden spoke about?

re: #164 Outrider

and see addendum in #156

re: #12 jorline

I'm sure Pakistan's launch codes are simpler than India's...not good!

When we went into Afghanstan we "helped them out" with a new security code system, I doubt they got any easier...

Follow the money. Without funding, the terrorists would need to get real jobs. What enables the Global Jihad is the funding that flows to Jihad groups.

Religion is at the base of the vast majority of atrocities committed over the history of man. One does not have to look any further than your nearest Bible, Torah or Koran to find the most vile atrocities committed in the name of the Invisible Man in the Sky, all with not a shred of evidence that he/she/they ever existed.

I'm starting to think that religion is a mental illness. Seriously. Take any argument for the existence of god, and change it to any other being, and the person would be locked up for having delusions. Why does God get a pass on logic?

I believe in and live by conservative / libertarian principles, but the whole God thing leaves a bad taste in my mouth, like a lasagna that leaves you belching basil every time you think you're done with it.

re: #167 pre-Boomer Marine brat

and see addendum in #156

got it thanks. I have a rather large desktop folder on my broken laptop that holds a lot of info on this guy and his influence on modern radical Islam. I am going to have to retrieve it.

Thanks again.

re: #52 mean Gene

Indeed, but an example of what happens to the followers of this Death Cult must be made, and its not like Pakistan hasn't been asking for it for, oh, the last 50 years. Many will die, but I say, sooner is better than later.

re: #96 Oh no...Sand People!

Didn't you know that there is a KFC in Kuwait City that is the 439th most holy site in Islam?
/

re: #173 Victrola

Didn't you know that there is a KFC in Kuwait City that is the 439th most holy site in Islam?
/

Oh, then maybe these three girls were just doing some pre-prayers clensing.

re: #19 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Sounds like what an idiot would use on his luggage

"And change the combination on my luggage!"

re: #37 realwest

Indeed. I wish Obama the VERY BEST OF LUCK for our sakes, in dealing with two nuclear armed enemies that have always been enemies since Pakistan was founded.

Agreed, although I suspect that at some point they're gonna start lobbing nukes at each other no matter what we do.

If anything, we can take the small consolation that it would be a vivid lesson to the rest of the planet about nuclear war...

What do Barack Obama's speechwriter (via memeorandum)

The incident I'm talking about, of course, is the photo of Jon Favreau, Barack Obama's 27-year-old wunderkind speechwriter, with his hand on a cardboard cutout of Hillary Clinton's chest. See above. Yes, that's the wunderkind on the left; on the right, is an as-yet- unidentified member of the "Obama staff." Charming. I can't stop thinking about this picture, and I confess I find it really upsetting. And, no, it's not because I don't have a sense of humor. I like to think I have a well-earned reputation for often irreverent, sometimes ill-advised humor. But I'm not laughing now.

and celebrants of the Eid (via Elder of Ziyon)

More than 50 men were arrested on Monday, the first day of Eid Al-Adha, in downtown Cairo for alleged acts of sexual harassment targeting women in the street. Fearing a repeat of acts that tend to happen on the first day every Eid, the Interior Ministry ordered a campaign to crack down on any further incidents, which led to the arrests.
The 50 were taken in and police reports filed against them for various offences including verbal harassment and catcalling, according to the local press. The men are currently in custody and will soon be referred to the prosecutor's office.

have in common?

I know that the president elect said that he wanted to reach out the Islamic world. I don't think this is what he meant.

has anyone mentioned that the mainstream media is also an epicenter of terrorism ?

for cripes sake, they not only enable them by not calling it what it is

they cheered them on in Iraq and Aghanistan with every American death that you HAVE TO count them in the mix

And then we have Morocco, an emerging center of terrorism, with rising numbers of arrested Islamists with origins from the north African nation. Here is an article by Olivier Guitta (of Counterterrorism Blog) outlining the Morrocan terror connection: [Link: www.metimes.com...]

This is yet another case of arbitrary territory splits not solving cultural problems. It hasn't worked in the Balkans, it hasn't worked in the middle east, and now the compromise to split the British Indian territories among the Muslims and Hindus seems to show severe cracks. I guess all we have learned is that drawing lines on maps and moving people to one side or the other of them is not statesmanship, or leadership ... more like confining errant kids to a room. All too often, those errant kids are ignored, and turn out warped. Somehow, truly open discussion, free press, and truly free communication must be permitted in all these areas as a condition of their reception of foreign aid...just like a lot of kids need caring parents who explain things to them rather than simply being dismissed to their rooms (simplistic, I know). Somehow, grass roots info must be allowed in, and in bulk.

Moreover - what can be done to open up Islamic countries economically? This seems to be the great secret. Renewable energy and top-flight E&P within our spheres of influence (open up ANWR, unlock the Destin Dome, drill Brazil, etc.) is the key to our culture's future. If they have to do something besides watch our oil companies and engineers remove their minerals they might be motivated to change. Charles early characterization of these groups as the "oil ticks" hit home for me years ago. I don't know how to educate a tick.

re: #65 jcm

The line that needs to be threaded in between those to is exceedingly fine and fraught with booby traps.

If nobody else caught this one...

HAHAHAHA booby traps HAHAHAHA