Overnight Open Thread
Open • Views: 1,591
Now you see, Lone Starr, that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb.
— Dark Helmet, “Spaceballs”
602 comments
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The Other Les Sat, Sep 19, 2009 11:33:22pm |
While I'm at it I should also mention that a previously mentioned group of morons is still at it.
Here's their website, I won't bother to quote the site this time. Just read it yourself.
A rational study of the real world would show that a real state of Peace is effectively indistinguishable from a state of Liberty and a state of Security. Peace, Liberty, and Security are simply three words that a rational person uses to describe the same condition, the rightful ability to live one's own life without coercive interference by others.
A rational study of actual history would show that the state of peace for the citizens of a free nation is the result of the violent elimination of the would be conquerors and their pet quislings.
If we rationally examine those who constitute the membership of the so-called Peace Movement we find that virtually every one of them is an open advocate of the coercive subjugation of the productive members of the Human Race. The occasional exception being a self-blinded fool who isn't paying attention to what they're ideologically in bed with.
In short, a "peace activist" and the "peace movement" are in fact enemies of Peace.
What are your questions on this block of instruction?
_
| 3 |
Dancing along the light of day Sat, Sep 19, 2009 11:33:45pm |
I'd have jumped Jim's grasshopper.
Just saying!
///
| 4 |
The Other Les Sat, Sep 19, 2009 11:35:29pm |
| 5 |
austin_blue Sat, Sep 19, 2009 11:36:03pm |
Gaah, the end of that last thread was turning into a Flame War. I need some peace and quiet. Can I offer anyone a Single Malt?
| 6 |
sngnsgt Sat, Sep 19, 2009 11:37:15pm |
re: #4 The Other Les
I getting ready for another day of driving a cab.
I hope the day is fare to you...
| 7 |
Locker Sat, Sep 19, 2009 11:37:32pm |
re: #5 austin_blue
Gaah, the end of that last thread was turning into a Flame War. I need some peace and quiet. Can I offer anyone a Single Malt?
Well, just had a shot of Jameson and I'm twisting one up. Wife is passed out and Saturday is slipping into Sunday soon. The vibes are good here in Cali.
| 8 |
Dancing along the light of day Sat, Sep 19, 2009 11:37:48pm |
re: #5 austin_blue
Here you go!
*clink*
Lots of LGF is turning into the wars.
(If yu don't participate, it goes out quicker, JMHO!)
| 9 |
Dancing along the light of day Sat, Sep 19, 2009 11:38:47pm |
re: #7 Locker
I'm really glad you are here.
I wasn't sure for a while.
Now, I am glad.
{{Locker}}
| 10 |
Locker Sat, Sep 19, 2009 11:41:04pm |
re: #9 Floral Giraffe
I'm really glad you are here.
I wasn't sure for a while.
Now, I am glad.
{{Locker}}
Good looking out FG. That's one out of a whole bunch but I'm not easy to take. Mostly I'm here because I respect Charles and admire what he's trying to do. In the process I've met some exceedingly cool, interesting and "special" people.
Here's to you and all for health, safety and happiness.
| 11 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Sep 19, 2009 11:44:38pm |
re: #10 Locker
Good looking out FG. That's one out of a whole bunch but I'm not easy to take. Mostly I'm here because I respect Charles and admire what he's trying to do. In the process I've met some exceedingly cool, interesting and "special" people.
Here's to you and all for health, safety and happiness.
I'll drink to that.
[Raises soda can]
| 12 |
soxfan4life Sat, Sep 19, 2009 11:46:10pm |
A quick jump in and then I am going to bed. Please say a prayer for my wife who is an out of control alcoholic. Pray that she does not do irreparable damage to our marriage, but more importantly pray for her health and well being and that she hasn't caused irreparable harm to her health.
| 13 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sat, Sep 19, 2009 11:49:05pm |
re: #12 soxfan4life
Dude! If what you say is true, you have a hard row to hoe. Good luck, I hope everything works out for the better.
| 14 |
Locker Sat, Sep 19, 2009 11:50:09pm |
re: #12 soxfan4life
A quick jump in and then I am going to bed. Please say a prayer for my wife who is an out of control alcoholic. Pray that she does not do irreparable damage to our marriage, but more importantly pray for her health and well being and that she hasn't caused irreparable harm to her health.
Well I don't really pray but I hope things stay positive and improve for you. I'd say intervene and get her into rehab if it's at all possible. Mostly it's folks who need the help the most who have the hardest time asking/accepting it.
Get help and support for yourself and the family as well. Since you seem to be religious I'd start here:
[Link:aa.org ]
| 15 |
austin_blue Sat, Sep 19, 2009 11:52:12pm |
re: #12 soxfan4life
A quick jump in and then I am going to bed. Please say a prayer for my wife who is an out of control alcoholic. Pray that she does not do irreparable damage to our marriage, but more importantly pray for her health and well being and that she hasn't caused irreparable harm to her health.
I'll hold *you* in my thoughts. Any man with a First Horse patch as an avatar deserves consideration. She will heal when she chooses to heal. You, however, are trying to hold your world together while she travels that road. All best wishes, my brother, and the best of fortune.
austin_blue, Capt., USAF(IR)
| 16 |
J.D. Sat, Sep 19, 2009 11:52:44pm |
re: #12 soxfan4life
A quick jump in and then I am going to bed. Please say a prayer for my wife who is an out of control alcoholic. Pray that she does not do irreparable damage to our marriage, but more importantly pray for her health and well being and that she hasn't caused irreparable harm to her health.
Hang in there.
Mr. J.D. finally quit drinking in 2003. I feel for you and wish you all the best .
| 17 |
freedomplow Sat, Sep 19, 2009 11:56:25pm |
I had a 7th grade teacher that used to be a stuntman for The Three Stooges.
Hope I will see my old 7th grade teacher one day to ask him more about it.
He is probably pretty old now if not gone.
When you're in seventh grade as with a lot of times no matter what age, you don't realize how many interesting people you run across.
As I get older I go to the VFW every Friday and meet some of the greatest Americans I have ever known. One of my good friends was Tom. WWII vet that was a great person in every way.
I miss my friend Tom. An American Hero that told me stories here and there only if I asked about them. He mostly just wanted to talk about sports and his family.
| 18 |
davinvalkri Sat, Sep 19, 2009 11:57:41pm |
The older I get, the more I think Dark Helmet was right. Evil might not be triumphant right now, but good seems to be getting dumber (and more involved in internecine conflicts) all the time...
| 19 |
J.D. Sat, Sep 19, 2009 11:59:09pm |
From the *drum roll* New York Times...
Op-Ed Columnist
No, It’s Not About Race
By DAVID BROOKS
You wouldn’t know it to look at me, but I go running several times a week. My favorite route, because it’s so flat, is from the Lincoln Memorial to the U.S. Capitol and back. I was there last Saturday and found myself plodding through tens of thousands of anti-government “tea party” protesters.They were carrying “Don’t Tread on Me” flags, “End the Fed” placards and signs condemning big government, Barack Obama, socialist health care and various elite institutions.
Then, as I got to where the Smithsonian museums start, I came across another rally, the Black Family Reunion Celebration. Several thousand people had gathered to celebrate African-American culture. I noticed that the mostly white tea party protesters were mingling in with the mostly black family reunion celebrants. The tea party people were buying lunch from the family reunion food stands. They had joined the audience of a rap concert.
Because sociology is more important than fitness, I stopped to watch the interaction. These two groups were from opposite ends of the political and cultural spectrum. They’d both been energized by eloquent speakers. Yet I couldn’t discern any tension between them. It was just different groups of people milling about like at any park or sports arena. ...
| 20 |
Mauser Sat, Sep 19, 2009 11:59:43pm |
re: #4 The Other Les
I drove a cab night shift in Philly when I was in college. Be safe.
| 21 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:00:51am |
"You'll never get away with this, Black Helmet Man! You are bad! You are bad and we are good! Your badness will be the end of you, and our goodness will be our triumph! Bad is bad - good is good! Bad-bad-good-bad! Good-good-bad-good, bad! Good."
--Princess Bunhead
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davinvalkri Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:01:56am |
re: #21 SanFranciscoZionist
"You'll never get away with this, Black Helmet Man! You are bad! You are bad and we are good! Your badness will be the end of you, and our goodness will be our triumph! Bad is bad - good is good! Bad-bad-good-bad! Good-good-bad-good, bad! Good."
--Princess Bunhead
Where's that from? I like it.
| 23 |
BryanS Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:02:32am |
re: #18 davinvalkri
The older I get, the more I think Dark Helmet was right. Evil might not be triumphant right now, but good seems to be getting dumber (and more involved in internecine conflicts) all the time...
What makes you say that? There have been some pretty friggin' evil things done in the past--not so different that current days I think.
| 24 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:02:44am |
re: #19 J.D.
From the *drum roll* New York Times...
Op-Ed Columnist
No, It’s Not About Race
By DAVID BROOKS
Agreed. For the great majority of the protesters, it was not about race and never has been. But for a small number of them, it is about race. And that small number taints the whole rally. If its not about race for you, make sure that the people who organize the rallies you attend feel the same way. Know before you go.
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Dark_Falcon Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:03:45am |
| 26 |
Dancing along the light of day Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:04:03am |
re: #21 SanFranciscoZionist
I really enjoy your posts!
Kids, or just quotes, please keep it coming!
| 27 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:04:37am |
re: #22 davinvalkri
Where's that from? I like it.
Thumb Wars. Highly recommended if you have a somewhat warped mind.
"If there were thumbs in space, and they got mad at each other, then there would be...Thumb Wars!
| 28 |
davinvalkri Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:05:10am |
re: #23 BryanS
What makes you say that? There have been some pretty friggin' evil things done in the past--not so different that current days I think.
Yes, but at least way back when, there was a sense that the side of good was more interested in beating up evil than beating up each other.
| 29 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:06:42am |
re: #26 Floral Giraffe
I really enjoy your posts!
Kids, or just quotes, please keep it coming!
Thank you!
| 30 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:07:54am |
re: #27 SanFranciscoZionist
Thumb Wars. Highly recommended if you have a somewhat warped mind.
"If there were thumbs in space, and they got mad at each other, then there would be...Thumb Wars!
It's a short film which is essentially a Star Wars parody, entirely acted by thumbs with little faces on them. Mysteriously, it works.
| 31 |
austin_blue Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:10:18am |
re: #19 J.D.
From the *drum roll* New York Times...
Op-Ed Columnist
No, It’s Not About Race
By DAVID BROOKS
When Carter says it is predominantly about race, he overstates his case.
When Brooks says it has nothing to do with race, he understates his case.
When a picture of the Prez with a bone in his nose is displayed, it's about race.
When a sign is displayed that says "The zoo has an African lion and the White House has a lyin' African, it's about race.
When a gorilla in a zoo in South carolina escapes, and a local Pol says it's an ancestor of Michelle Obama, it's about race. Remember when Laura Bush was subjected to such abuse? When she was called a whiny ass bitch? Oh, wait...
That's racial.
To believe otherwise is insane.
| 32 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:10:23am |
| 33 |
BryanS Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:11:14am |
re: #28 davinvalkri
Yes, but at least way back when, there was a sense that the side of good was more interested in beating up evil than beating up each other.
Example?
| 34 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:13:14am |
| 35 |
davinvalkri Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:13:21am |
re: #33 BryanS
Example?
...Eh, maybe I'm thinking more "civility vs. idiocy" than "good and evil," and my perspective is a bit on the stunted side. Still, Dark Helmet probably has the right idea.
| 36 |
Egregious Philbin Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:14:16am |
"Doing all right...little jiving on a Saturday night"
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davinvalkri Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:16:17am |
re: #35 davinvalkri
...Eh, maybe I'm thinking more "civility vs. idiocy" than "good and evil," and my perspective is a bit on the stunted side. Still, Dark Helmet probably has the right idea.
Darn it, hit the button too early.
This is probably just my cynicism and/or slightly irrational interest in stuff that interested people a generation or so back; I just figure that if Dark Helmet threatened to suck up all of the earth's air way back when, he'd have been shot, whereas if he made the threat now, about half of the side of good would want to censure him, the other half would want to buddy up with him, and both would want to throw rocks and picket signs at each other.
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calcajun Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:16:31am |
Prince John: A knife! He's got a knife!
Eleanor: Of course he has a knife, he always has a knife, we all have knives! It's 1183 and we're barbarians! How clear we make it. Oh, my piglets, we are the origins of war: not history's forces, nor the times, nor justice, nor the lack of it, nor causes, nor religions, nor ideas, nor kinds of government, nor any other thing. We are the killers. We breed wars. We carry it like syphilis inside. Dead bodies rot in field and stream because the living ones are rotten. For the love of God, can't we love one another just a little - that's how peace begins. We have so much to love each other for. We have such possibilities, my children. We could change the world.
The Lion in Winter
| 39 |
BryanS Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:17:20am |
re: #31 austin_blue
When Carter says it is predominantly about race, he overstates his case.
When Brooks says it has nothing to do with race, he understates his case.
When a picture of the Prez with a bone in his nose is displayed, it's about race.
When a sign is displayed that says "The zoo has an African lion and the White House has a lyin' African, it's about race.
When a gorilla in a zoo in South carolina escapes, and a local Pol says it's an ancestor of Michelle Obama, it's about race. Remember when Laura Bush was subjected to such abuse? When she was called a whiny ass bitch? Oh, wait...
That's racial.
To believe otherwise is insane.
There certainly are racists in the country, but how opposition to socialize medicine can in any way have anything to do with race is beyond me. There were a lot of wackos on the left who hated Bush. Is hatred better or worse because of its particular strain or origin? Possibly hatred based on race, religion, or other group identity is more dangerous because of the its use in human history to motivate people to attack members of another group. But is that happening here? I don't see that happening.
| 40 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:17:25am |
I just got back from a wedding in Denver. Pure hell getting out there. The plane was turned back to Phoenix. When we were half an hour outside of Denver. And other things happened that delayed us.
But it was a great wedding.
| 41 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:17:50am |
re: #37 davinvalkri
The half that would side with him wouldn't really be "good", though, now would it?
| 42 |
SanFranciscoZionist Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:19:27am |
re: #38 calcajun
The Lion in Winter
Oh, my heavens, that was the best thing Katherine Hepburn ever did, and that is saying a lot.
| 43 |
ArchangelMichael Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:19:37am |
I might not be around much on the LNDTs after tonight. I'm trying to force myself to get up earlier to get into work at a more decent time and the main culprit keeping me up too late is LGF at night.
/Last time I tried this no LNDT thing on work nights, it lasted about a week. We'll see.
| 44 |
BryanS Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:19:38am |
re: #35 davinvalkri
...Eh, maybe I'm thinking more "civility vs. idiocy" than "good and evil," and my perspective is a bit on the stunted side. Still, Dark Helmet probably has the right idea.
I'm not too worried about civility either. Throughout our country's history, politics has been as uncivil as it is today. Maybe culturally you have a point.
| 45 |
davinvalkri Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:19:56am |
re: #41 Slumbering Behemoth
The half that would side with him wouldn't really be "good", though, now would it?
"Buddy up" as in those sappy cartoons and anime where "the power of friendship" turns a villain into a nominal hero. A psych evaluation, a mommy issue that'll be beaten out of him...and voila! A friendly!
| 46 |
J.D. Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:21:57am |
re: #31 austin_blue
When a picture of the Prez with a bone in his nose is displayed, it's about race.
When a sign is displayed that says "The zoo has an African lion and the White House has a lyin' African, it's about race.
When a gorilla in a zoo in South carolina escapes, and a local Pol says it's an ancestor of Michelle Obama, it's about race.
True.
But don't you find it slightly interesting that David Brooks reported seeing... what he reported seeing, and it wasn't all about racial tension?
| 47 |
Locker Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:22:43am |
re: #39 BryanS
There certainly are racists in the country, but how opposition to socialize medicine can in any way have anything to do with race is beyond me. There were a lot of wackos on the left who hated Bush. Is hatred better or worse because of its particular strain or origin? Possibly hatred based on race, religion, or other group identity is more dangerous because of the its use in human history to motivate people to attack members of another group. But is that happening here? I don't see that happening.
Well, I can see race being a factor if it causes a person to distrust a source of information. Maybe you want anything a person does to fail, regardless of actual effect, because of race. It could make them easier to manipulate for someone else's gain into believing false information.
I don't really think there is much you can do about it, just trying to think about your question.
| 48 |
Locker Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:25:28am |
re: #39 BryanS
There certainly are racists in the country, but how opposition to socialize medicine can in any way have anything to do with race is beyond me. There were a lot of wackos on the left who hated Bush. Is hatred better or worse because of its particular strain or origin? Possibly hatred based on race, religion, or other group identity is more dangerous because of the its use in human history to motivate people to attack members of another group. But is that happening here? I don't see that happening.
Additionally I don't think there is much difference between this or that type of hate of a person. Not saying there isn't fringe but I must say in my long years on the left, one of our points of pride is to have a problem or support an idea, not a person. Now this may be false pride as it is rarely executed well but at least that is the stated/desired goal.
Regardless of who does a better job at it I like to consider ideas and support or challenge them, not a whole person. Just my personal opinion.
| 49 |
calcajun Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:25:52am |
re: #42 SanFranciscoZionist
One of the better lines:
Eleanor: In a world where carpenters get resurrected, everything is possibl
e.
| 51 |
BryanS Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:28:24am |
re: #47 Locker
Well, I can see race being a factor if it causes a person to distrust a source of information. Maybe you want anything a person does to fail, regardless of actual effect, because of race. It could make them easier to manipulate for someone else's gain into believing false information.
I don't really think there is much you can do about it, just trying to think about your question.
That would be true for the racist. But the arguments against socialized medicine have nothing to do with race. If they did, then arguments about hatred being the reason for the opposition would have some merit. As it is, I think such suggestions are in and of themselves a form of racism.
| 52 |
austin_blue Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:28:35am |
re: #39 BryanS
There certainly are racists in the country, but how opposition to socialize medicine can in any way have anything to do with race is beyond me. There were a lot of wackos on the left who hated Bush. Is hatred better or worse because of its particular strain or origin? Possibly hatred based on race, religion, or other group identity is more dangerous because of the its use in human history to motivate people to attack members of another group. But is that happening here? I don't see that happening.
They whack left hated Bush because they believed he was an idiot. I was not one of them. I have met the man and he is not a moron, just terribly ill-read. What is happening here is a rising tide of personal (if unacknowledged) race hatred. The *excuse* is health care reform, most of it from truly ignorant people (not stupid people, there's a big difference) who don't understand the economics of the present system as it exists and how unsustainable it is.
This is being exacerbated by many of the whack wingnut heroes- Rush, Hannity, Michelle, Atlas Shrugged, Hot Air, &c. Charles has certainly covered this and has vehemently protested against it. I agree. This is an insidious evil.
| 53 |
austin_blue Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:30:59am |
re: #46 J.D.
True.
But don't you find it slightly interesting that David Brooks reported seeing... what he reported seeing, and it wasn't all about racial tension?
Do you think it would have been a different story if those black people had been in the faces of the white protesters instead of providing them food?
| 54 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:31:07am |
re: #45 davinvalkri
Not buying it.
I am in no way implying anything here about you, your character, your affiliations, nor the kind of people you are willing to align with when I say:
I will not "Buddy Up" with nor befriend those who adhere to things that are antithetical to my personal convictions, fascists being one of many ideological opponents that I am not fool enough to believe will just be good if I make nice with them.
Again, I am in no way implying anything about you with the above statement.
/Too serious? Bearsharktopus!
| 55 |
J.D. Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:31:57am |
Does He Lie?
No, but Obama implies, misdirects, and misleads.
By Charles Krauthammer
You lie? No. Barack Obama doesn’t lie. He’s too subtle for that. He . . . well, you judge.Herewith three examples within a single speech — the now-famous Obama-Wilson “you lie” address to Congress on health care — of Obama’s relationship with truth.
(1) “I will not sign (a plan),” he solemnly pledged, “if it adds one dime to the deficit, now or in the future. Period.”
Wonderful. The president seems serious, veto-ready, determined to hold the line. Until, notes Harvard economist Greg Mankiw, you get to Obama’s very next sentence: “And to prove that I’m serious, there will be a provision in this plan that requires us to come forward with more spending cuts if the savings we promised don’t materialize.”
This apparent strengthening of the pledge brilliantly and deceptively undermines it. What Obama suggests is that his plan will require mandatory spending cuts if the current rosy projections prove false. But there’s absolutely nothing automatic about such cuts. Every Congress is sovereign. Nothing enacted today will force a future Congress or a future president to make any cuts in any spending, mandatory or not.
Just look at the supposedly automatic Medicare cuts contained in the Sustainable Growth Rate formula enacted to constrain out-of-control Medicare spending. Every year since 2003, Congress has waived the cuts.
Mankiw puts the Obama bait-and-switch in plain language. “Translation: I promise to fix the problem. And if I do not fix the problem now, I will fix it later, or some future president will, after I am long gone. I promise he will. Absolutely, positively, I am committed to that future president fixing the problem. You can count on it. Would I lie to you?”
(2) And then there’s the famous contretemps about health insurance for illegal immigrants. Obama said they would not be insured. Well, all four committee-passed bills in Congress allow illegal immigrants to take part in the proposed Health Insurance Exchange.
But more importantly, the problem is that laws are not self-enforcing. If they were, we’d have no illegal immigrants because, as I understand it, it’s illegal to enter the United States illegally. We have laws against burglary, too. But we also provide for cops and jails on the assumption that most burglars don’t voluntarily turn themselves in.
When Republicans proposed requiring proof of citizenship, the Democrats twice voted that down in committee. Indeed, after Rep. Joe Wilson’s “You lie!” shout-out, the Senate Finance Committee revisited the language of its bill to prevent illegal immigrants from getting any federal benefits. Why would the Finance Committee fix a nonexistent problem?
(3) Obama said he would largely solve the insoluble cost problem of Obamacare by eliminating “hundreds of billions of dollars in waste and fraud” from Medicare.
That’s not a lie. That’s not even deception. That’s just an insult to our intelligence. Waste, fraud, and abuse — Meg Greenfield once called this phrase “the dread big three” — as the all-purpose piggy bank for budget savings has been a joke since Jimmy Carter first used it in 1977.
Moreover, if half a trillion is waiting to be squeezed painlessly out of Medicare, why wait for health-care reform? If, as Obama repeatedly insists, Medicare overspending is breaking the budget, why hasn’t he gotten started on the painless billions in “waste and fraud” savings?...
| 56 |
J.D. Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:33:16am |
re: #53 austin_blue
Do you think it would have been a different story if those black people had been in the faces of the white protesters instead of providing them food?
Oh, brother.
| 57 |
austin_blue Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:33:59am |
| 58 |
Locker Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:34:07am |
re: #51 BryanS
That would be true for the racist. But the arguments against socialized medicine have nothing to do with race. If they did, then arguments about hatred being the reason for the opposition would have some merit. As it is, I think such suggestions are in and of themselves a form of racism.
Well I believe some of the arguments against health care reform are false. I believe they were implanted by the opposition and I can definitely see racism raising the likelihood of someone accepting negative arguments or opinions against the target.
Additionally I have seen some arguments against health care reform aimed at illegal immigrants that sure sound inflammatory and could easily be based on racism.
I also think many arguments against health care reform have nothing to do with racism, lets say the costs, etc. So I think it's unlikely that all arguments against health care are racists and I think it's unlikely that racism plays no part at all in arguments against health care reform.
| 59 |
BryanS Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:34:54am |
re: #48 Locker
Additionally I don't think there is much difference between this or that type of hate of a person. Not saying there isn't fringe but I must say in my long years on the left, one of our points of pride is to have a problem or support an idea, not a person. Now this may be false pride as it is rarely executed well but at least that is the stated/desired goal.
Regardless of who does a better job at it I like to consider ideas and support or challenge them, not a whole person. Just my personal opinion.
It is best to consider and embrace or challenge ideas. But Obama has not done much more than offer platitudes and a cult of personality. You reap what you sow. He's offered a less than convincing case for how socialized medicine is paid for, and his assertions about the nature of the bills under consideration are not even close to being based on reality. When the liberal strains of the national press even call him out on stretching the truth, Obama's problem is not his race.
To quote Reagan, "The problem with our liberal friends is not that they are ignorant. It's that they know so many thing that just aren't so".
| 60 |
J.D. Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:35:01am |
| 62 |
austin_blue Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:35:39am |
| 63 |
davinvalkri Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:35:58am |
re: #54 Slumbering Behemoth
Not buying it.
I am in no way implying anything here about you, your character, your affiliations, nor the kind of people you are willing to align with when I say:
I will not "Buddy Up" with nor befriend those who adhere to things that are antithetical to my personal convictions, fascists being one of many ideological opponents that I am not fool enough to believe will just be good if I make nice with them.
Again, I am in no way implying anything about you with the above statement.
/Too serious? Bearsharktopus!
Hey, I don't either. But don't tell me you've never seen media that embraces the Rousseau "evil is mistaken good" bit wholeheartedly. And don't tell me you don't think nominally good people buy that crap.
| 64 |
davinvalkri Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:38:43am |
re: #63 davinvalkri
Hey, I don't either. But don't tell me you've never seen media that embraces the Rousseau "evil is mistaken good" bit wholeheartedly. And don't tell me you don't think nominally good people buy that crap.
By the Rousseau bit, I mean this.
| 65 |
Locker Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:38:45am |
re: #59 BryanS
It is best to consider and embrace or challenge ideas. But Obama has not done much more than offer platitudes and a cult of personality. You reap what you sow. He's offered a less than convincing case for how socialized medicine is paid for, and his assertions about the nature of the bills under consideration are not even close to being based on reality. When the liberal strains of the national press even call him out on stretching the truth, Obama's problem is not his race.
To quote Reagan, "The problem with our liberal friends is not that they are ignorant. It's that they know so many thing that just aren't so".
Well I could challenge you the same way. You keep saying Socialized Medicine when that isn't part of any plan in the works, at all. Socialized Medicine is a system where the government owns hospitals and directly employs doctors. So basically you are arguing and fighting against something that isn't even being proposed.
I agree that it is very difficult to discuss issues when folks can't even agree on a common reality.
| 66 |
jvic Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:39:20am |
re: #12 soxfan4life
A quick jump in and then I am going to bed. Please say a prayer for my wife who is an out of control alcoholic. Pray that she does not do irreparable damage to our marriage, but more importantly pray for her health and well being and that she hasn't caused irreparable harm to her health.
Since you're still logged in, let me suggest you check out Al-Anon, which is like AA for relatives and friends of alcoholics. IMHO there is no single prognosis or solution for alcoholism; I'd be cautious of anyone who suggests otherwise: what works for one person may fail for another and vice-versa.
I'll think of your wife, but I hope you think of your own condition. You will be no good to her, yourself or anyone else if you let your soul get corroded by her malady.
| 67 |
Locker Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:39:49am |
re: #66 jvic
Since you're still logged in, let me suggest you check out Al-Anon, which is like AA for relatives and friends of alcoholics. IMHO there is no single prognosis or solution for alcoholism; I'd be cautious of anyone who suggests otherwise: what works for one person may fail for another and vice-versa.
I'll think of your wife, but I hope you think of your own condition. You will be no good to her, yourself or anyone else if you let your soul get corroded by her malady.
Right on.
| 68 |
Dancing along the light of day Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:41:26am |
Good night, dear lizards.
Sleep tight, and may your deepest fears be naught!
| 69 |
Fenway_Nation Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:41:45am |
"Use the Shwartz..."
-Yogurt
/Late to the thread- has that gem been trotted out?
| 70 |
BryanS Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:43:16am |
re: #52 austin_blue
They whack left hated Bush because they believed he was an idiot. I was not one of them. I have met the man and he is not a moron, just terribly ill-read. What is happening here is a rising tide of personal (if unacknowledged) race hatred. The *excuse* is health care reform, most of it from truly ignorant people (not stupid people, there's a big difference) who don't understand the economics of the present system as it exists and how unsustainable it is.
This is being exacerbated by many of the whack wingnut heroes- Rush, Hannity, Michelle, Atlas Shrugged, Hot Air, &c. Charles has certainly covered this and has vehemently protested against it. I agree. This is an insidious evil.
I for one am concerned about the left's understanding of the economics of the current situation. My problem with socialized medicine--and the biggest reason the vast majority of those protesting are opposed--has to do with the loss of choice and freedom one will necessarily face under government run health care. How can costs be contained without tort reform? Without rationing? And if rationing, based on what method?
| 71 |
shimoda Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:46:41am |
Repost:
So, does any one have any idea how many people belongs to this home schooled, evangelical, angry kookosphere? 10% of the population? 5? 3? 15?...
| 72 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:48:00am |
re: #63 davinvalkri
Hey, I don't either. But don't tell me you've never seen media that embraces the Rousseau "evil is mistaken good" bit wholeheartedly. And don't tell me you don't think nominally good people buy that crap.
You pose a decent enough question that requires a decent enough bit of thought. I am drunk, so you won't get from me much of the latter.
No, not familiar with media embracing such things attributed to this Rousseau.
No, but I do believe nominally stupid buy many pieces of crap.
| 73 |
davinvalkri Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:48:16am |
re: #71 shimoda
Repost:
So, does any one have any idea how many people belongs to this home schooled, evangelical, angry kookosphere? 10% of the population? 5? 3? 15?...
No idea, but probably significant enough to deserve the old Buckley intellectual smackdown.
/Wait, did you just use "home-schooled" as an insult? Adalore will be offended...daw...
| 75 |
shimoda Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:50:58am |
re: #73 davinvalkri
No idea, but probably significant enough to deserve the old Buckley intellectual smackdown.
/Wait, did you just use "home-schooled" as an insult? Adalore will be offended...daw...
What I'm interested in is how powerful they REALLY are. As opposed to how loudly they can shout
| 76 |
Fenway_Nation Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:51:48am |
Aren't all those kids who keep on winning the Spelling Bees either home-schooled or Indian? Or both?
| 77 |
BryanS Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:52:52am |
re: #58 Locker
Well I believe some of the arguments against health care reform are false. I believe they were implanted by the opposition and I can definitely see racism raising the likelihood of someone accepting negative arguments or opinions against the target.
Racism is only going to affect the racist. The arguments being posed for why socialized medicine is bad are not based on race. A racist argument would be designed to persuade based on race. I have not seen those types of arguments used.
Additionally I have seen some arguments against health care reform aimed at illegal immigrants that sure sound inflammatory and could easily be based on racism.
Here you may have some case. It's the closest that any argument comes to touching the race issue, and I don't doubt some politicians will exploit this. However, I think the overwhelming fear and argument opposed to coverage for illegal immigrants is economic. Giving free health care to illegal immigrants will only cause more illegal immigration. Our government has a policy of limiting immigration rates so that we do not have too many low income high social service need immigrants.
I also think many arguments against health care reform have nothing to do with racism, lets say the costs, etc. So I think it's unlikely that all arguments against health care are racists and I think it's unlikely that racism plays no part at all in arguments against health care reform.
And the hugely overwhelming support from the African American community doesn't cancel out the minority of the country who is racist? Maybe not, if you believe Carter that the overwhelming majority of Americans are racists.
| 78 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:53:19am |
re: #75 shimoda
What I'm interested in is how powerful they REALLY are. As opposed to how loudly they can shout
Hard to say. They haven't been directly confronted yet. Until they are, we won't know.
| 80 |
austin_blue Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:56:55am |
re: #70 BryanS
I for one am concerned about the left's understanding of the economics of the current situation. My problem with socialized medicine--and the biggest reason the vast majority of those protesting are opposed--has to do with the loss of choice and freedom one will necessarily face under government run health care. How can costs be contained without tort reform? Without rationing? And if rationing, based on what method?
I am fully in favor of tort reform. As for choice and freedom, what choice and freedom do you have now? Can you choose your own GP? No, only one off of your insurance company's list. What if they suck? How can you find out?
You can't.
As for rationing, it's a boogeyman. The rest of the Western World has some form of government controlled health care. In Switzerland and Germany, that means very highly regulated private insurance where fee for service is brutally regulated and outcome based health care is the rule. In France, England, the low countries, and Scandanavia, it means a government controlled program that closely monitors the metrics and costs. Do they have problems? Sure. But the bottom line is that all of these countries deliver better health care for all of their citizens (that would be the "General Welfare" mentioned in the preamble to the Constitution) than the disaster we we have in this country for our citizens.
Do we have the finest health care system in the world? Absolutely!
So long as you don't get really sick.
| 81 |
shimoda Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:57:43am |
re: #78 Dark_Falcon
Hard to say. They haven't been directly confronted yet. Until they are, we won't know.
What is interesting is that if you study history this looks a lot like the beginning of text-book revolution.
- create a lot of mayhem and disorder
- people get tired of it
- a strong man emerges and stops the chaos
- people are very grateful and hands him all the power
I hope I'm very wrong. (I usually am)
| 82 |
austin_blue Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:58:24am |
re: #71 shimoda
Repost:
So, does any one have any idea how many people belongs to this home schooled, evangelical, angry kookosphere? 10% of the population? 5? 3? 15?...
If its 10% it's 30 million people. Food for thought
| 83 |
BryanS Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:58:53am |
re: #65 Locker
Well I could challenge you the same way. You keep saying Socialized Medicine when that isn't part of any plan in the works, at all. Socialized Medicine is a system where the government owns hospitals and directly employs doctors. So basically you are arguing and fighting against something that isn't even being proposed.
I agree that it is very difficult to discuss issues when folks can't even agree on a common reality.
It's misleading to say that socialized medicine is not in the bill. If a system is designed to engineer the demise of private insurance, then there does not need to be an explicit takeover of the entire medical system. So yes, I call it socialized medicine when the government can set prices and terms of the industry, when it can compel businesses to enlist employees in the government program at a cost much less than the private market (due in large part to tax subsidies and the ability to set prices).
| 84 |
austin_blue Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:01:00am |
re: #81 shimoda
What is interesting is that if you study history this looks a lot like the beginning of text-book revolution.
- create a lot of mayhem and disorder
- people get tired of it
- a strong man emerges and stops the chaos
- people are very grateful and hands him all the powerI hope I'm very wrong. (I usually am)
Who's the strong man? They are creating disorder over Obama.
Is it Beck? Rush? Ron Paul?
| 85 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:02:55am |
re: #84 austin_blue
Who's the strong man? They are creating disorder over Obama.
Is it Beck? Rush? Ron Paul?
Obama might be the strong man in this analogy. He pushes to create disorder, and then promotes himself as the only force who can end the disorder. I've examined that theory at some length, but I don't think it true.
| 86 |
shimoda Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:03:03am |
re: #84 austin_blue
Who's the strong man? They are creating disorder over Obama.
Is it Beck? Rush? Ron Paul?
No idea. But out of chaos has many a time risen leaders that nobody foresaw. Ex. Lech Walesa
| 89 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:05:57am |
re: #87 rexfromars
Quit feeling yourself up.
| 91 |
davinvalkri Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:10:51am |
re: #87 rexfromars
No it doesn't, what are you talking about?
| 92 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:11:06am |
re: #87 rexfromars
And for the record, I have been here just a few weeks longer than you, and the only thing I have seen change around these parts is the unwillingness of some posters to focus an honest and critical eye on the current facts of the day.
| 93 |
BryanS Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:11:13am |
re: #80 austin_blue
I am fully in favor of tort reform. As for choice and freedom, what choice and freedom do you have now? Can you choose your own GP? No, only one off of your insurance company's list. What if they suck? How can you find out?
You can't.
I'm glad you are, but that's not in the bill, and was ruled out for any consideration by the Dems. You can choose your own doctor under most HSA programs. Are you in favor of lifting the ban on buying and selling insurance across state lines? The president claims more choice is needed, but the only choice the Dems will allow is a choice for a government run plan. Some choice!
As for rationing, it's a boogeyman. The rest of the Western World has some form of government controlled health care. In Switzerland and Germany, that means very highly regulated private insurance where fee for service is brutally regulated and outcome based health care is the rule. In France, England, the low countries, and Scandanavia, it means a government controlled program that closely monitors the metrics and costs. Do they have problems? Sure. But the bottom line is that all of these countries deliver better health care for all of their citizens (that would be the "General Welfare" mentioned in the preamble to the Constitution) than the disaster we we have in this country for our citizens.
And how does one "control costs"? A bureaucrat somewhere decides what practices are economical. The government tells doctors what they will get paid--look at how many American doctors refuse Medicare patients due to the reimbursements not covering their costs. In many socialized medicine countries such as Great Britian, doctor shortages are a huge problem.
Do we have the finest health care system in the world? Absolutely!So long as you don't get really sick.
We have the finest system in the world because we have a profit incentive. Profit drives innovation and new products. There is a reason that virtually all medical advances in the world come from our country and virtually none from countries with socialized medicine.
And in a world with socialized medicine, the government will have every incentive to control even more of our decisions and behavior. Americans are fat, so let's tax fattening foods--that will save us money on health care. Perhaps everyone should be forced to join gyms or face higher taxes--would save on health care costs, and could even be sold as a jobs program.
| 94 |
ArchangelMichael Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:11:43am |
re: #87 rexfromars
How about you use your keen troll senses to watch Stinky put his sure foot up your dumb ass?
| 95 |
austin_blue Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:13:27am |
re: #85 Dark_Falcon
Obama might be the strong man in this analogy. He pushes to create disorder, and then promotes himself as the only force who can end the disorder. I've examined that theory at some length, but I don't think it true.
Good. Sane reasoning. The disorder *always* comes from the outside of established existing functions of the state. To say that a revolution could come from within (which is what the most virulent position that the whacks believe) is insane. The President cannot suspend the Constitution (well except for habeas corpus, but that's a side story to the present discussion).
| 98 |
shimoda Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:26:36am |
| 99 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:29:28am |
re: #95 austin_blue
Good. Sane reasoning. The disorder *always* comes from the outside of established existing functions of the state. To say that a revolution could come from within (which is what the most virulent position that the whacks believe) is insane. The President cannot suspend the Constitution (well except for habeas corpus, but that's a side story to the present discussion).
Actually, with Obama there were fears he'd use groups like ACORN to stir up trouble. While I was worried about that sort of situation for a while, Obama has shown no inclination towards such actions. Honesty requires me to deem those fears groundless, unless provided with very strong evidence (conspiracy theories would not count as evidence).
| 100 |
BryanS Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:32:08am |
re: #99 Dark_Falcon
Actually, with Obama there were fears he'd use groups like ACORN to stir up trouble. While I was worried about that sort of situation for a while, Obama has shown no inclination towards such actions. Honesty requires me to deem those fears groundless, unless provided with very strong evidence (conspiracy theories would not count as evidence).
Yeah...that Glen Beck crockery isn't likely to come to pass.
| 103 |
austin_blue Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:42:15am |
re: #93 BryanS
We have the finest system in the world because we have a profit incentive. Profit drives innovation and new products. There is a reason that virtually all medical advances in the world come from our country and virtually none from countries with socialized medicine.
And in a world with socialized medicine, the government will have every incentive to control even more of our decisions and behavior. Americans are fat, so let's tax fattening foods--that will save us money on health care. Perhaps everyone should be forced to join gyms or face higher taxes--would save on health care costs, and could even be sold as a jobs program.
You know, I was right there with you until that last paragraph, when you went off the rails and got paranoid. I was hoping to have a discussion of cost per patient, metrics of results, how we stack up against Europe on actual results in health care, &c. But you insinuated the whole lifestyle thing, which is a non sequiter. What counts is the *delivery* of health care in an efficient, fair manner. The rest of the Western World does it. We don't.
Example: Right now, there are about 15 million people unemployed in the US, and many of them will not get their old jobs back, which means they will need to find employment at new companies and get new health insurance through those companies.
If they have diabetes, or a child who has diabetes, they will not be employable because their Company's insurer will not cover them. This is also true if they or any member of their family has a history of high blood pressure, asthma, back pain, or any other chronic condition. They are screwed. What is their alternative? They aren't eligible for Medicaire.
How would you deal with this? These are, after all your neighbors. Do you want them going to the ER with the huge costs that will incur, knowing that you will pay those costs through your regional medical taxing district?
| 104 |
BryanS Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:43:56am |
re: #103 austin_blue
I figured you would think I fell off the rails on the last paragraph. Obama has gone on record supporting a tax on sugery drinks and fattening foods. That's not conspiracy, that's fact.
| 105 |
Fenway_Nation Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:45:22am |
re: #104 BryanS
Don't forget the state of NY supporting a 14% tax on soft drinks that...pardon the pun...fizzled.
| 106 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:45:25am |
Rexfromars, I see you. Do you not have the spine to answer my questions in #101, or are you just off making a cheese sandwich?
| 107 |
Fenway_Nation Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:47:11am |
re: #106 Slumbering Behemoth
It probably would take him 45 minutes to make a cheese sandwich.
| 108 |
austin_blue Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:48:26am |
re: #104 BryanS
I figured you would think I fell off the rails on the last paragraph. Obama has gone on record supporting a tax on sugery drinks and fattening foods. That's not conspiracy, that's fact.
Of all of my post, you mention sugary drinks and didn't even spell it right. No response to the substance.
A down ding for you.
Pitiful.
| 109 |
BryanS Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:49:32am |
re: #103 austin_blue
Now getting to the rest of your reply, the main difference in health care costs between the US and Europe has to do with lifestyle choices. We have a much higher expense specifically on the types of care needed for lifestyle choices--cardiovascular disease and cancers are very expensive to treat and significantly influenced by life choices. Put the country on a diet, and our health care costs would plummet--that's a fact.
I would deal with the problems you cite with reforms, not a government run program. There would be large, bipartisan support for restricting the ability of a company to drop someone for getting sick, or not cover someone with pre-existing conditions.
| 110 |
BryanS Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:51:18am |
re: #108 austin_blue
it's 3:50am where I am, I think you can cut me some slack for a misspelling. I was typing the rest of my reply when you decided to claim I wasn't responding enough.
| 111 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:51:38am |
re: #107 Fenway_Nation
I think it is trolling for extreme responses. It's still here, but not responding. Cheese sandwiches are teh hard./
| 112 |
Fenway_Nation Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:54:08am |
re: #111 Slumbering Behemoth
I made mine much quicker...altho' I made it all wrong...with the cheese on the outside and the bread on the inside.
| 113 |
freetoken Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:55:08am |
re: #111 Slumbering Behemoth
Hey, I just microwaved a frozen burrito... even I can do that.
| 114 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sun, Sep 20, 2009 1:56:32am |
| 116 |
austin_blue Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:00:16am |
re: #109 BryanS
Now getting to the rest of your reply, the main difference in health care costs between the US and Europe has to do with lifestyle choices. We have a much higher expense specifically on the types of care needed for lifestyle choices--cardiovascular disease and cancers are very expensive to treat and significantly influenced by life choices. Put the country on a diet, and our health care costs would plummet--that's a fact.
I would deal with the problems you cite with reforms, not a government run program. There would be large, bipartisan support for restricting the ability of a company to drop someone for getting sick, or not cover someone with pre-existing conditions.
Well, that would certainly be true if the Europeans were an alien race that did not suffer from cardiovascular disease and cancer. it's not that they don't *get* them , it is how they are treated. And their outcomes are at least comparable to ours, at significantly less cost.
As for your last 'graph, how would you imagine that could be done without a huge government overhaul of private insurance? Who would be the regulating authority? Who would determine the metrics of how that would be implemented?
Don't get get me wrong, this is what the Swiss and the Germans do, but they have smashed insurance company profit margins for the privilege of supplying insurance to their citizens.
| 117 |
austin_blue Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:01:11am |
re: #110 BryanS
it's 3:50am where I am, I think you can cut me some slack for a misspelling. I was typing the rest of my reply when you decided to claim I wasn't responding enough.
Preview is your friend!
| 118 |
freetoken Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:01:48am |
re: #115 sngnsgt
Why did you just link to a 'nirther essay?
| 119 |
sngnsgt Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:06:36am |
re: #118 freetoken
I received in in e-mail from a somewhat reliable source. After posting it and reading more of it, I wish I could go back and delete it or not have posted it at all. In my reply to the sender, I'm going to ask why I am supposed to be convinced it's real. Basically, I should have read the whole thing before I posted it. Sorry, my bad.
| 120 |
BryanS Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:08:00am |
re: #116 austin_blue
Well, that would certainly be true if the Europeans were an alien race that did not suffer from cardiovascular disease and cancer. it's not that they don't *get* them , it is how they are treated. And their outcomes are at least comparable to ours, at significantly less cost.
As for your last 'graph, how would you imagine that could be done without a huge government overhaul of private insurance? Who would be the regulating authority? Who would determine the metrics of how that would be implemented?
Don't get get me wrong, this is what the Swiss and the Germans do, but they have smashed insurance company profit margins for the privilege of supplying insurance to their citizens.
Actually, it is that they don't "get" them at a much higher rate, but when they do, they also die at a much higher rate. Fewer cases, but higher death rate in Europeans makes overall deaths similar.
Certainly interstate commerce can be regulated--and Republicans would not raise too much of a stink about that. The same organizations that oversee trade issues now would deal with insurance regulations. Dropping someone solely for getting sick is pretty clear when it happens. Likewise, declining someone for pre-existing conditions is pretty easy to spot. This regulation is not too difficult to do.
Now if you are envisioning doing precisely what the Germans and Swiss do, they go much further in dictating prices and other practices. I don't think we need or the people want that kind of intrusion.
| 121 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:13:58am |
re: #115 sngnsgt
Sorry, have to down ding. That site uses Atlas Shrieks and Michelle Bachman as sources. That makes it of questionable accuracy.
| 122 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:16:24am |
OT: I love my local distributors of alcoholic, tobacco, and pornography.
America Rocks!
| 124 |
shimoda Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:20:30am |
I HATE architects!!
I just spent 1 hour up on the roof clearing pine needles and leafs from the FLAT roof of our house.
In the late 60's, early 70's all architects in Finland suffered from a collective mental breakdown and started to draw houses with FLAT ROOFS. I wonder what the planning meeting was like:
These slanted roofs are so 1950. They have been around for like ages. Why not invent something new. I know! Let's build houses like they do in Egypt, Jordan and Syria. Because the climate in Finland is just like Mesopotamia. Minus the sun of course. And plus the snow. And the rain. And the trees. But other than that, it is just the same, and it looks way cool.
Luckily most of these 70's abominations have been converted to slanted roofs but alas not ours. And I really do love it otherwise. Did I I tell you it was designed by an architect.
| 125 |
Fenway_Nation Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:22:29am |
re: #124 shimoda
Interesting. The last Finn I met was Teemu Selanne.
| 127 |
shimoda Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:23:16am |
re: #125 Fenway_Nation
Interesting. The last Finn I met was Teemu Selanne.
//On the ice or in the bar?
| 128 |
austin_blue Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:23:17am |
re: #120 BryanS
Actually, it is that they don't "get" them at a much higher rate, but when they do, they also die at a much higher rate. Fewer cases, but higher death rate in Europeans makes overall deaths similar.
Certainly interstate commerce can be regulated--and Republicans would not raise too much of a stink about that. The same organizations that oversee trade issues now would deal with insurance regulations. Dropping someone solely for getting sick is pretty clear when it happens. Likewise, declining someone for pre-existing conditions is pretty easy to spot. This regulation is not too difficult to do.
Now if you are envisioning doing precisely what the Germans and Swiss do, they go much further in dictating prices and other practices. I don't think we need or the people want that kind of intrusion.
Here:
Cross-country comparisons
Direct comparisons of health statistics across nations is complex.
The Commonwealth Fund, in its annual survey, "Mirror, Mirror on the Wall", compares the performance of the health care systems in Australia, New Zealand, the United Kingdom, Germany, Canada and the U.S. Its 2007 study found that, although the U.S. system is the most expensive, it consistently underperforms compared to the other countries.[11] Two differences between the U.S. and the other countries in the study is that the U.S. is the only country without universal health insurance coverage, and the highest cost of malpractice insurance of any nation in the study.
The OECD also collects comparative statistics, and has published brief country profiles.[12][13][14]
Country Life expectancy Infant mortality rate Physicians per 1000 people Nurses per 1000 people Per capita expenditure on health (USD) Healthcare costs as a percent of GDP % of government revenue spent on health % of health costs paid by government
Australia 81.4 4.2 2.8 9.7 3,137 8.7 17.7 67.7
Canada 80.7 5.0 2.2 9.0 3,895 10.1 16.7 69.8
France 81.0 4.0 3.4 7.7 3,601 11.0 14.2 79.0
Germany 79.8 3.8 3.5 9.9 3,588 10.4 17.6 76.9
Japan 82.6 2.6 2.1 9.4 2,581 8.1 16.8 81.3
Sweden 81.0 2.5 3.6 10.8 3,323 9.1 13.6 81.7
UK 79.1 4.8 2.5 10.0 2,992 8.4 15.8 81.7
US 78.1 6.7 2.4 10.6 7,290 16.0 18.5 45.4
I'm tired. I'm going to bed. These raw numbers are what they are. By any metric, these (and other statistics) put us in the lower tier of Western health care systems on the planet.
We suck, but we are really expensive for the cost of service delivered!
| 130 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:24:15am |
re: #124 shimoda
I just did the same thing (broom for hire) on someone's rental properties. It ain't that easy on slanted roofs either. It was at least one hundred and suck that day.
I feel your pain (sort of).
| 133 |
shimoda Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:28:02am |
re: #130 Slumbering Behemoth
I just did the same thing (broom for hire) on someone's rental properties. It ain't that easy on slanted roofs either. It was at least one hundred and suck that day.
I feel your pain (sort of).
Yes, but on a slanted roof most of the leafs and needles get washed in to the gutters. So it becomes a problem of clearing only them. Less area.
| 134 |
Fenway_Nation Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:31:58am |
I think it's time for me to get some shuteye as well.
G'nite lizards!
| 136 |
The Left Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:34:49am |
re: #12 soxfan4life
A quick jump in and then I am going to bed. Please say a prayer for my wife who is an out of control alcoholic. Pray that she does not do irreparable damage to our marriage, but more importantly pray for her health and well being and that she hasn't caused irreparable harm to her health.
Hey soxfan4life, I'm just driving by the LNT and wanted to let you know you'll both be in my thoughts, and also a dear friend is saying a prayer for you and for her both.
Very best wishes and heartfelt sympathy, iDub
| 137 |
BryanS Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:36:09am |
re: #128 austin_blue
Statistics can say whatever you want them to. However all these stats relate is what the results are, but beyond that it says nothing about why those results were what they are. You still don't address, and neither do these surveys, any adjustment for the fact that the average american chooses to lead an unhealthy lifestyle. The most significant factor according to the medical profession in determine life expectancy is not considered in the survey.
So everyone has life expectancy of 80 +/- 2 years. What if life style choices impact life expectancy by +/- 10 years? That +/- 2yrs becomes statistical noise until you can quantitatively compare and adjust those lifestyle affects. Only then can you compare the affects of health care systems more accurately.
| 138 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:38:16am |
re: #133 shimoda
Normally true, but not so much where I am at. Little rain and little wind. The shit builds up quick.
| 140 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:47:11am |
Speaking of thick shit...
Rexfromars, how is that cheese sandwich coming? Have any intention of responding to my questions?
You do know that everyone can see you are still logged in, right?
| 141 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Sep 20, 2009 2:57:15am |
Cheese samiches? I made a grilled cheese using white american, the put some quick heat to some med-rare roast beef and put it in there, then topped it with spicy BBQ sauce. Awesome.
| 143 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Sep 20, 2009 3:04:05am |
And while we are still on the food subject, I just pulled a corned beef brisket out of the crock pot. Man oh man, is it good. Making reubens and french fries later today.
| 144 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Sep 20, 2009 3:10:12am |
And I just bought some Blueberry Special K. Best cereal ever.
| 145 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Sep 20, 2009 3:17:28am |
Fall begins Tuesday. It will be 92 degrees, but with the wind chill, it will seem like 93.
| 146 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sun, Sep 20, 2009 3:21:20am |
re: #145 Cannadian Club Akbar
No doubt. Ass end of September, and it's still in the high nineties in my parts. I can't wait for a cold winter.
| 147 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Sep 20, 2009 3:23:27am |
This is why I hate the UN.
[Link: www.guardian.co.uk...]
| 148 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Sep 20, 2009 3:29:04am |
The 47-page report provides a detailed breakdown of the basic needs of 75 vulnerable countries with the weakest capacity to withstand an escalation of the virus. Six countries from Latin America, including Cuba and Bolivia, 21 countries from Asia and the Pacific such as North Korea and Bangladesh, and 40 countries from Africa such as Congo and Eritrea are included in the survey.
Notice Cuba is in there. But, but, Mike Moore said they have the best health care EVER!!! And so did some douchebag congress critters. But of course, we will pay the fucking bill and if we don't we are just mean. I remember going to NYC and going by the UN building. Fucking waste of space. Get them out and build apartments or condos or whatever.
| 150 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Sep 20, 2009 3:38:02am |
And from the unelectable file, you get this.
[Link: www.google.com...]
Now, notice where the straw vote was taken. If all these fundamentalist want to run hard right thinking they are gonna some how beat Obama, they are sadly mistaken. But, if we get the kook fringes from both parties out of congress, we could get a more stable legislature and Obama would capitulate on some of his big gubment policies.
| 151 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Sep 20, 2009 3:39:07am |
| 152 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sun, Sep 20, 2009 3:50:54am |
G'nite Lizards, catch y'all later.
Rexfromars, it has been two hours and forty minutes since you dropped that turd in the punchbowl, and you have not answered any of my questions regarding your post despite the fact that you are clearly still logged in here.
Enjoy your craven lurking. I'm sure it won't last long.
| 154 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Sep 20, 2009 4:02:09am |
| 156 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Sep 20, 2009 4:19:18am |
| 157 |
MandyManners Sun, Sep 20, 2009 4:22:50am |
re: #154 Cannadian Club Akbar
Already?
What? I should give the schmuck chocolates and candy? How about a magnum of Champagne?
| 158 |
MandyManners Sun, Sep 20, 2009 4:23:25am |
re: #157 MandyManners
What? I should give the schmuck chocolates and
candyflowers? How about a magnum of Champagne?
I should no better to post this early.
| 161 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Sep 20, 2009 4:24:09am |
re: #157 MandyManners
What? I should give the schmuck chocolates and candy? How about a magnum of Champagne?
I prefer chili dogs and CC with a splash of pepsi.
| 163 |
MandyManners Sun, Sep 20, 2009 4:31:35am |
| 164 |
Darth Vader Gargoyle Sun, Sep 20, 2009 4:32:50am |
Good Morning Keith Olbermann disciples!!
/
| 165 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Sep 20, 2009 4:35:30am |
re: #164 rwdflynavy
Good Morning Keith Olbermann disciples!!
/
I have an Olberman bust I made out of mashed potatoes.
/
| 166 |
Darth Vader Gargoyle Sun, Sep 20, 2009 4:38:51am |
CCA, I am right there with you on the weather thing. I'm ready for Fall, but it is a couple months away here in the Sunshine State.
| 167 |
MandyManners Sun, Sep 20, 2009 4:40:13am |
| 168 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Sep 20, 2009 4:41:08am |
re: #166 rwdflynavy
CCA, I am right there with you on the weather thing. I'm ready for Fall, but it is a couple months away here in the Sunshine State.
November is the month we should start to cool down. Soon northern Lizards will be talking about shoveling snow and we will sit with open windows and a smell of cool air. :)
| 169 |
MandyManners Sun, Sep 20, 2009 4:42:03am |
re: #165 Cannadian Club Akbar
I have an Olberman bust I made out of mashed potatoes.
/
I bet the rats won't eat it out of professional courtesy.
| 170 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Sep 20, 2009 4:43:11am |
re: #169 MandyManners
I bet the rats won't eat it out of professional courtesy.
Even rats have standards.
| 171 |
MandyManners Sun, Sep 20, 2009 4:43:15am |
re: #168 Cannadian Club Akbar
November is the month we should start to cool down. Soon northern Lizards will be talking about shoveling snow and we will sit with open windows and a smell of cool air. :)
And, then, the snowbirds will swoop down to clog your streets and litter your beaches with their pasty-white bodies. And, black socks with tennis shoes.
| 172 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Sep 20, 2009 4:45:20am |
re: #171 MandyManners
My county's population goes up by 25%. I am lucky, I have everything I need within a 1 mile radius. I hate coming into town during season.
| 173 |
Darth Vader Gargoyle Sun, Sep 20, 2009 4:45:21am |
re: #171 MandyManners
Fortunately the snowbirds go further south than Jax. Down more CCA's way! Enjoy that!
| 174 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Sep 20, 2009 4:47:16am |
re: #173 rwdflynavy
Fortunately the snowbirds go further south than Jax. Down more CCA's way! Enjoy that!
I have 2 trailer parks near me that fill up. BUT, all the old people drive golf carts. I will eventually buy one.
| 176 |
MandyManners Sun, Sep 20, 2009 4:47:41am |
re: #172 Cannadian Club Akbar
My county's population goes up by 25%. I am lucky, I have everything I need within a 1 mile radius. I hate coming into town during season.
Do you live in the country?
| 177 |
MandyManners Sun, Sep 20, 2009 4:48:13am |
re: #173 rwdflynavy
Fortunately the snowbirds go further south than Jax. Down more CCA's way! Enjoy that!
So, they just clog up the freeways at times.
| 178 |
MandyManners Sun, Sep 20, 2009 4:49:03am |
| 179 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Sep 20, 2009 4:49:11am |
re: #176 MandyManners
Do you live in the country?
Kinda. My block is 2 and a half miles if you walk it. 5 acre tracks. But subdivisions down the road.
| 180 |
Occasional Reader Sun, Sep 20, 2009 4:49:21am |
Greetings from Miami Airport.
I need to be home and in bed, pronto. Overnight flights just wipe me out.
| 181 |
MandyManners Sun, Sep 20, 2009 4:49:58am |
re: #179 Cannadian Club Akbar
Kinda. My block is 2 and a half miles if you walk it. 5 acre tracks. But subdivisions down the road.
Exurb?
| 182 |
MandyManners Sun, Sep 20, 2009 4:50:30am |
re: #180 Occasional Reader
Greetings from Miami Airport.
I need to be home and in bed, pronto. Overnight flights just wipe me out.
(((OR)))
| 183 |
Occasional Reader Sun, Sep 20, 2009 4:50:40am |
| 184 |
MandyManners Sun, Sep 20, 2009 4:52:03am |
re: #183 Occasional Reader
They don't have cities in Canada, silly.
CCA's in Florida, siwwy. His nic refers to his drink. With a splash of Pepsi. (I know. I know.)
| 186 |
MandyManners Sun, Sep 20, 2009 4:53:17am |
FCBBHO's favorite suit maker is Hart Schaffner Marx. No joke.
| 187 |
MandyManners Sun, Sep 20, 2009 4:53:38am |
| 188 |
Occasional Reader Sun, Sep 20, 2009 4:54:05am |
re: #186 MandyManners
FCBBHO's favorite suit maker is Hart Schaffner Marx. No joke.
I've checked out their suits, and find them a little boring.
| 189 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Sep 20, 2009 4:54:59am |
re: #181 MandyManners
Exurb?
It is country I guess. I left the house for 5 days and left the front door wide open. (I have a screen door) No problems. Then again, everyone on my block are rednecks, so...
| 191 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Sep 20, 2009 4:55:51am |
| 192 |
MandyManners Sun, Sep 20, 2009 4:57:28am |
re: #188 Occasional Reader
I've checked out their suits, and find them a little boring.
The Secret Service bought him a Jorg Gray 6500. There now is a page [Link: www.barackswatch...] dedicated to it.
| 193 |
MandyManners Sun, Sep 20, 2009 4:57:42am |
| 194 |
MandyManners Sun, Sep 20, 2009 4:58:19am |
re: #189 Cannadian Club Akbar
It is country I guess. I left the house for 5 days and left the front door wide open. (I have a screen door) No problems. Then again, everyone on my block are rednecks, so...
Looking out for others.
| 195 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Sep 20, 2009 4:59:00am |
| 196 |
MandyManners Sun, Sep 20, 2009 4:59:31am |
Ooh. I have two e-mails from my potential new beau. Gonna' see what he has to say.
| 197 |
Cubzilla Sun, Sep 20, 2009 4:59:33am |
Why do I feel my country is slowly disappearing? Why do I see myself and millions of other fellow Americans slowly drink the Kool-Aid of both sides of the isle? I feel deserted, I feel cheated much as I did when I was fighting in Vietnam.
I remember a statement for God knows who a long time ago. What this country needs is more statesmen and far less politicians. How true.
This isn't a race issue or a Donkey/Elephant issue...it needs to become an AMERICAN issue. Our survival depends on people loving our country not the benefits of re-election and graft.
| 198 |
MandyManners Sun, Sep 20, 2009 4:59:51am |
| 199 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Sep 20, 2009 5:01:41am |
re: #196 MandyManners
Ooh. I have two e-mails from my potential new beau. Gonna' see what he has to say.
I didn't send you any emails.
/
| 200 |
MandyManners Sun, Sep 20, 2009 5:04:15am |
re: #197 Cubzilla
Why do I feel my country is slowly disappearing? Why do I see myself and millions of other fellow Americans slowly drink the Kool-Aid of both sides of the isle? I feel deserted, I feel cheated much as I did when I was fighting in Vietnam.
I remember a statement for God knows who a long time ago. What this country needs is more statesmen and far less politicians. How true.
This isn't a race issue or a Donkey/Elephant issue...it needs to become an AMERICAN issue. Our survival depends on people loving our country not the benefits of re-election and graft.
I agree but, the problem is that various factions have vastly different images of America.
| 201 |
Joshua Cohen Sun, Sep 20, 2009 5:08:32am |
Some Israeli satire answer about the Aftonbladet-Incident.
| 202 |
MandyManners Sun, Sep 20, 2009 5:10:06am |
re: #198 MandyManners
I've known him for ages but we met up again at the auction yesterday. He's an interesting man--his hobbies include pottery, photography, cooking, tinkering with his Beemer he got in Germany and attending the symphony. He's also a Bubba. Go figure.
| 203 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sun, Sep 20, 2009 5:10:59am |
Not on mention of "Ludicrous speed" in an entire open thread with a "Spaceballs" quote?
| 204 |
Digital Display Sun, Sep 20, 2009 5:11:38am |
re: #202 MandyManners
I've known him for ages but we met up again at the auction yesterday. He's an interesting man--his hobbies include pottery, photography, cooking, tinkering with his Beemer he got in Germany and attending the symphony. He's also a Bubba. Go figure.
Sounds like a cool guy...I'll bet he is interesting to talk to.
| 205 |
MandyManners Sun, Sep 20, 2009 5:12:02am |
Oh, and he grows his own basil to make pesto.
| 206 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Sep 20, 2009 5:13:06am |
re: #205 MandyManners
Oh, and he grows his own basil to make pesto.
Ya know you can buy a Chia garden, right?
| 207 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Sep 20, 2009 5:15:34am |
re: #203 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Not on mention of "Ludicrous speed" in an entire open thread with a "Spaceballs" quote?
We were waiting for you...
| 208 |
MandyManners Sun, Sep 20, 2009 5:17:01am |
re: #204 HoosierHoops
Sounds like a cool guy...I'll bet he is interesting to talk to.
Don't get him going about his pipes! He has quite a collection and he got really excited talking about a couple by someone named Cook.
| 209 |
turn Sun, Sep 20, 2009 5:18:06am |
I love free Wi-Fi at airports ... a very early good morning all
| 210 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Sep 20, 2009 5:18:58am |
re: #209 turn
I love free Wi-Fi at airports ... a very early good morning all
They have free Wi-Fi at McDonalds here. Morning.
| 211 |
turn Sun, Sep 20, 2009 5:19:45am |
mandy has a new boy friend, mandy has a new boy friend, niener niener niener ...
/
| 212 |
turn Sun, Sep 20, 2009 5:21:16am |
re: #210 Cannadian Club Akbar
They have free Wi-Fi at McDonalds here. Morning.
Cool, this connection at SMF is a little slow but it's ok. On my way to Rehoboth, DE and looking forward to seeing it for the first time. How's things up north?
| 213 |
Digital Display Sun, Sep 20, 2009 5:21:59am |
re: #208 MandyManners
Don't get him going about his pipes! He has quite a collection and he got really excited talking about a couple by someone named Cook.
I think you deserve to fall head over heels in Love...
Good Luck!
| 214 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Sep 20, 2009 5:22:27am |
re: #212 turn
Cool, this connection at SMF is a little slow but it's ok. On my way to Rehoboth, DE and looking forward to seeing it for the first time. How's things up north?
Not sure since I live in Florida. But hotter than Hades here. And I gotta mow yard. Bleh.
| 215 |
Digital Display Sun, Sep 20, 2009 5:22:49am |
re: #212 turn
Cool, this connection at SMF is a little slow but it's ok. On my way to Rehoboth, DE and looking forward to seeing it for the first time. How's things up north?
I'll wave as you fly over today! Hi Turn!
| 216 |
turn Sun, Sep 20, 2009 5:22:55am |
| 217 |
MandyManners Sun, Sep 20, 2009 5:23:04am |
re: #206 Cannadian Club Akbar
Ya know you can buy a Chia garden, right?
He does it from scratch. We sat on the patio watching his moon flowers open. I had no idea such a vine existed. He invited me to stay for some yellowfin he caught a couple of weeks ago but I had to pick up The Kid and get him ready for bed.
| 218 |
SixDegrees Sun, Sep 20, 2009 5:23:21am |
re: #128 austin_blue
You need to be careful here. The costs - costs as a % of GDP, per capita costs and so on - are measuring all dollars spent on health care, to the extent such measurement is possible. And in the US, that includes every tummy tuck, liposuction, penis extension, cosmetic bonding, breast enhancement, and an absolutely enormous pile of other completely elective procedures that are driven entirely by vanity rather than health. Elsewhere, not so much. The reasons for this incessant demand for personal modification in the US are complex, but the point is that you really aren't making a fair comparison of costs when you simply lump all procedures at which a doctor is present into the same basket. What you wind up with is a comparison based on a large percentage of personal choices on how to spend discretionary income - which Americans often have a great deal of compared with other countries that impose multiple layers of taxation on every dribble of income in order to support their socialized health care systems, among other things.
Also, in terms of outcomes you need to realize that, although there may be health care "for all" in some countries supplying these statistics, it doesn't mean that the statistics themselves are sound, since they measure only those who actually participate in the system. In many areas - the banlieue in France, various ghettos in Denmark and other European nations - there are huge swaths of immigrants who simply don't participate in the system at all for a variety of reasons, even though they are not actively excluded, and as a result their outcomes are simply not measured.
As you note, such comparisons are difficult. The realities often make them meaningless.
| 219 |
MandyManners Sun, Sep 20, 2009 5:23:39am |
| 220 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Sep 20, 2009 5:23:58am |
| 221 |
MandyManners Sun, Sep 20, 2009 5:24:10am |
re: #211 turn
mandy has a new boy friend, mandy has a new boy friend, niener niener niener ...
/
*atomic wedgie*
| 222 |
turn Sun, Sep 20, 2009 5:24:21am |
re: #214 Cannadian Club Akbar
Not sure since I live in Florida. But hotter than Hades here. And I gotta mow yard. Bleh.
Oh, sorry. For some reason I forgot that. Florida is a nice place to visit but I couldn't put up the heat and humidity permanently. Where in FL?
| 223 |
MandyManners Sun, Sep 20, 2009 5:25:15am |
re: #213 HoosierHoops
I think you deserve to fall head over heels in Love...
Good Luck!
Whoa. Whoa. Whoa. Last time I did that, it ended badly. I'm gonna' go slooow.
| 224 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Sep 20, 2009 5:25:46am |
re: #222 turn
Oh, sorry. For some reason I forgot that. Florida is a nice place to visit but I couldn't put up the heat and humidity permanently. Where in FL?
South of Tampa. Beautiful come November through March. Windows open. Electric bill drops like a rock.
| 225 |
turn Sun, Sep 20, 2009 5:26:09am |
re: #215 HoosierHoops
I'll wave as you fly over today! Hi Turn!
Hey hoops waving (way down there). Sup buddy? Looks like the FBI broke up that cell, it's all over CNN at the airport.
| 226 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Sep 20, 2009 5:27:06am |
Crap, gotta run to the store before the hordes of people wake up. BBIAB.
| 227 |
MandyManners Sun, Sep 20, 2009 5:27:28am |
re: #216 turn
How about greenbud?
/
Naw. He has custody of his daughter and is rather protective of her. She's a doll--big brown eyes and blonde hair. She's just a year older than The Kid but, she is extremely self-possessed.
| 228 |
turn Sun, Sep 20, 2009 5:27:33am |
re: #217 MandyManners
He does it from scratch. We sat on the patio watching his moon flowers open. I had no idea such a vine existed. He invited me to stay for some yellowfin he caught a couple of weeks ago but I had to pick up The Kid and get him ready for bed.
How romantic, congradulations MM.
| 230 |
Digital Display Sun, Sep 20, 2009 5:29:40am |
re: #225 turn
Hey hoops waving (way down there). Sup buddy? Looks like the FBI broke up that cell, it's all over CNN at the airport.
I'm watching Charlie Wilsons War...Huge party to go to in 2 hours...And my birthday is Monday...Oh boy!
| 231 |
turn Sun, Sep 20, 2009 5:29:54am |
| 232 |
MandyManners Sun, Sep 20, 2009 5:31:32am |
re: #228 turn
How romantic, congradulations MM.
Yeah, it was, now that I think about it. But, there was no feeling of romance at the time. It was just the two of us watching the flowers open, listening to the birds wind down their singing for the day.
Now I have a sily grin on my face.
| 233 |
little blessing Sun, Sep 20, 2009 5:32:13am |
re: #232 MandyManners
The good things in life...
Good luck!
| 234 |
Darth Vader Gargoyle Sun, Sep 20, 2009 5:32:20am |
Favorite Spaceballs line:
Out of order?! F***! Even in the future nothing works!
| 235 |
turn Sun, Sep 20, 2009 5:32:29am |
re: #227 MandyManners
Naw. He has custody of his daughter and is rather protective of her. She's a doll--big brown eyes and blonde hair. She's just a year older than The Kid but, she is extremely self-possessed.
Wow you two have a lot in common. I hope the kids get along. Good luck, and I agree with you taking it slow. Why the hell is my hard drive going nuts right now, I'm not doing anything and the thing is cruchning away like crazy.
| 236 |
John Neverbend Sun, Sep 20, 2009 5:32:41am |
re: #148 Cannadian Club Akbar
I remember going to NYC and going by the UN building. Fucking waste of space. Get them out and build apartments or condos or whatever.
I think it should be converted to a public convenience (it's 99.9% of the way there already, judging by the crap that routinely passes through there).
| 237 |
Darth Vader Gargoyle Sun, Sep 20, 2009 5:32:50am |
On that note, off to church. Stay Classy Reptiles.
| 238 |
John Neverbend Sun, Sep 20, 2009 5:37:29am |
| 239 |
turn Sun, Sep 20, 2009 5:41:03am |
re: #230 HoosierHoops
I'm watching Charlie Wilsons War...Huge party to go to in 2 hours...And my birthday is Monday...Oh boy!
I love that movie. The part about not sticking in with humanitarian aid after the ouster is so true. Man you are always partying! Happy b-day, I'm guessing 54.
| 242 |
Digital Display Sun, Sep 20, 2009 5:50:36am |
re: #240 turn
anybody out there? or is it the wi-fi ...
Right here...I'm trying to think of a clever response to my never ending partying...
I got nothing...:)
| 243 |
MandyManners Sun, Sep 20, 2009 5:52:27am |
re: #230 HoosierHoops
I'm watching Charlie Wilsons War...Huge party to go to in 2 hours...And my birthday is Monday...Oh boy!
So is Leonard Cohen's!
HAPPY BIRTHDAY, HHoops!
| 244 |
turn Sun, Sep 20, 2009 5:52:41am |
re: #242 HoosierHoops
Right here...I'm trying to think of a clever response to my never ending partying...
I got nothing...:)
You can't think, too much partying!
| 245 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Sep 20, 2009 5:53:27am |
My store has ribs for 1.29LB. I bought a rack yesterday and 2 more today. Might have to get more at that price.
| 246 |
MandyManners Sun, Sep 20, 2009 5:53:44am |
Gotta' drag The Kid out of bed...again. bbiab
| 247 |
SixDegrees Sun, Sep 20, 2009 5:55:43am |
re: #245 Cannadian Club Akbar
My store has ribs for 1.29LB. I bought a rack yesterday and 2 more today. Might have to get more at that price.
They freeze well, especially if they're still packed in those vacuum plastic sleeves. Sometimes they're packed that way in the back, and removed for display purposes. It's worth asking if you don't see 'em.
| 248 |
Oh no...Sand People! Sun, Sep 20, 2009 5:56:30am |
Good bloody night. Now over at HotAir.. Charles has been PAID OFF! That's the reason for his complete 'change'!
Never once would could they fathom that his 'athiest' personage could be just intellectually honest and calling them out on both sides when they are being complete morons...
Too much to grasp for their unapologetic 'toe-the-party-line-in-blind-allegiance-we-can-do no-wrong-therefore-none-of-our-tactics-are-now-wrong-ever' mentalities...
Intellectual honesty is in short supply and in even lesser demand these days apparently.
| 249 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Sep 20, 2009 5:57:13am |
re: #247 SixDegrees
They freeze well, especially if they're still packed in those vacuum plastic sleeves. Sometimes they're packed that way in the back, and removed for display purposes. It's worth asking if you don't see 'em.
I vacuum pack them myself. Ribs don't last long around here, though.
| 250 |
turn Sun, Sep 20, 2009 5:57:52am |
re: #245 Cannadian Club Akbar
My store has ribs for 1.29LB. I bought a rack yesterday and 2 more today. Might have to get more at that price.
Make sure you peel the membrane off of the backside. All these years I never did that then the neighbor wes from tex taught me that secret. The seasoing really penetrates the meat that way.
| 251 |
SixDegrees Sun, Sep 20, 2009 5:58:32am |
re: #249 Cannadian Club Akbar
I vacuum pack them myself. Ribs don't last long around here, though.
Even better. How's that working out for you? I've considered getting one of those machines, but the bags seem expensive.
| 252 |
turn Sun, Sep 20, 2009 5:58:40am |
A dollar friggin 97 cents for a small cup of Starbucks coffee ...
| 254 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Sep 20, 2009 5:59:53am |
re: #250 turn
Make sure you peel the membrane off of the backside. All these years I never did that then the neighbor wes from tex taught me that secret. The seasoing really penetrates the meat that way.
Been in the restaurant industry for 22 years. Actually worked at a place that was voted in the top 5 rib joints in America by USA Today. But thanks, most people don't know that. And then they don't know how to remove the membrane.
| 255 |
SixDegrees Sun, Sep 20, 2009 6:01:11am |
re: #248 Oh no...Sand People!
Good bloody night. Now over at HotAir.. Charles has been PAID OFF! That's the reason for his complete 'change'!
Never once would could they fathom that his 'athiest' personage could be just intellectually honest and calling them out on both sides when they are being complete morons...
Too much to grasp for their unapologetic 'toe-the-party-line-in-blind-allegiance-we-can-do no-wrong-therefore-none-of-our-tactics-are-now-wro ng-ever' mentalities...
Intellectual honesty is in short supply and in even lesser demand these days apparently.
People don't seem to realize that idiocy is idiocy, no matter which side is displaying it.
When I notice a turd in the punchbowl, my first question isn't going to be, "Gee, I wonder if a Liberal or a Conservative laid that deuce in the punchbowl?" It's going to be more along the lines of, "Hey! There's a damn turd in the punchbowl!"
I also don't wanna drink our of that punchbowl anymore, even if it's a Conservative turd.
| 256 |
turn Sun, Sep 20, 2009 6:01:22am |
re: #254 Cannadian Club Akbar
Been in the restaurant industry for 22 years. Actually worked at a place that was voted in the top 5 rib joints in America by USA Today. But thanks, most people don't know that. And then they don't know how to remove the membrane.
What is the best way to do that?
| 257 |
MandyManners Sun, Sep 20, 2009 6:01:41am |
re: #248 Oh no...Sand People!
Good bloody night. Now over at HotAir.. Charles has been PAID OFF! That's the reason for his complete 'change'!
Never once would could they fathom that his 'athiest' personage could be just intellectually honest and calling them out on both sides when they are being complete morons...
Too much to grasp for their unapologetic 'toe-the-party-line-in-blind-allegiance-we-can-do no-wrong-therefore-none-of-our-tactics-are-now-wro ng-ever' mentalities...
Intellectual honesty is in short supply and in even lesser demand these days apparently.
Who paid him? How much? Can I have the telephone number?
| 258 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Sep 20, 2009 6:01:47am |
re: #251 SixDegrees
Even better. How's that working out for you? I've considered getting one of those machines, but the bags seem expensive.
Works well. I generally buy strip steaks whole and cut them. I do the same with filets and I buy chicken leg quaters in 10LB. bags.
| 259 |
SixDegrees Sun, Sep 20, 2009 6:03:07am |
re: #254 Cannadian Club Akbar
Been in the restaurant industry for 22 years. Actually worked at a place that was voted in the top 5 rib joints in America by USA Today. But thanks, most people don't know that. And then they don't know how to remove the membrane.
I scrape up a corner with a butter knife at the wider end, grab it with a paper towel and pull. Usually comes off in one piece. Totally agree that this makes a big difference.
| 260 |
MandyManners Sun, Sep 20, 2009 6:03:07am |
re: #255 SixDegrees
People don't seem to realize that idiocy is idiocy, no matter which side is displaying it.
When I notice a turd in the punchbowl, my first question isn't going to be, "Gee, I wonder if a Liberal or a Conservative laid that deuce in the punchbowl?" It's going to be more along the lines of, "Hey! There's a damn turd in the punchbowl!"
I also don't wanna drink our of that punchbowl anymore, even if it's a Conservative turd.
Especially if it's from a Crunchy Conservative.
| 261 |
turn Sun, Sep 20, 2009 6:03:44am |
This is the first cup of coffee I've drank in about a year, man does it taste good.
| 262 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Sep 20, 2009 6:03:59am |
re: #256 turn
What is the best way to do that?
Invert a soup spoon and place in your palm. Put thumb along the rib bones. Go under membrane with spoon handle. Lift and remove. Sometimes it takes 1 try, sometimes more.
| 263 |
turn Sun, Sep 20, 2009 6:05:14am |
re: #259 SixDegrees
I scrape up a corner with a butter knife at the wider end, grab it with a paper towel and pull. Usually comes off in one piece. Totally agree that this makes a big difference.
wes uses a skill knife down the middle then peels the two halves towards the ends.
| 264 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Sep 20, 2009 6:05:44am |
I used to peel 75 LBS. of baby back ribs a day.
| 265 |
turn Sun, Sep 20, 2009 6:06:26am |
re: #262 Cannadian Club Akbar
Invert a soup spoon and place in your palm. Put thumb along the rib bones. Go under membrane with spoon handle. Lift and remove. Sometimes it takes 1 try, sometimes more.
Thanks for the tip, I'll try that next time. Just to be clear, where do you start?
| 266 |
turn Sun, Sep 20, 2009 6:07:06am |
re: #264 Cannadian Club Akbar
I used to peel 75 LBS. of baby back ribs a day.
Wow that's hard on the back, baby.
| 267 |
Digital Display Sun, Sep 20, 2009 6:07:13am |
re: #264 Cannadian Club Akbar
I used to peel 75 LBS. of baby back ribs a day.
Beef or pork?
I don't eat pork...
| 268 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Sep 20, 2009 6:07:25am |
re: #265 turn
Thanks for the tip, I'll try that next time. Just to be clear, where do you start?
I start at the small end, about 2 or 3 bones in.
| 270 |
SixDegrees Sun, Sep 20, 2009 6:08:09am |
re: #267 HoosierHoops
Beef or pork?
I don't eat pork...
Baby backs are pork. Beef ribs are a whole different animal.
| 271 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Sep 20, 2009 6:08:09am |
| 272 |
laZardo Sun, Sep 20, 2009 6:09:56am |
"Sometimes life leaves a hundred dollar bill on your dresser, and you don't realize until later that it's because it fucked you." - Justin's Dad
Wisdom.
/also good evening
| 273 |
Digital Display Sun, Sep 20, 2009 6:10:52am |
re: #271 Cannadian Club Akbar
Baby backs are Danish pork ribs. Sorry.
That's cool.. I don't eat baby back nothing...
Danish pork? Who knew?
| 276 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Sep 20, 2009 6:12:36am |
| 277 |
albusteve Sun, Sep 20, 2009 6:12:40am |
I'm naturally suspicious of a person that will not eat pork ribs...something is amiss there
| 278 |
Danny Sun, Sep 20, 2009 6:12:41am |
Good morning (or evening for you people in China).
| 279 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Sep 20, 2009 6:13:18am |
re: #277 albusteve
I'm naturally suspicious of a person that will not eat pork ribs...something is amiss there
Hoops is a sekrit Mooslim!!!
///
| 280 |
laZardo Sun, Sep 20, 2009 6:13:22am |
re: #278 Danny
Good morning (or evening for you people in China).
I'm in Manila, but at least the greeting still applies. q:
| 281 |
MandyManners Sun, Sep 20, 2009 6:14:54am |
re: #271 Cannadian Club Akbar
Baby backs are Danish pork ribs. Sorry.
I don't think this is about ribs.
| 284 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Sep 20, 2009 6:16:52am |
| 285 |
Digital Display Sun, Sep 20, 2009 6:16:55am |
re: #277 albusteve
I'm naturally suspicious of a person that will not eat pork ribs...something is amiss there
You know me..I don't eat 90% of all foods...Nothing religious or anything...
I just am a very picky eater...My curse in life...On the bright side I only weigh 5 lbs heavier than I did in College...
| 286 |
MandyManners Sun, Sep 20, 2009 6:16:56am |
| 287 |
Danny Sun, Sep 20, 2009 6:16:59am |
re: #280 laZardo
I'm in Manila, but at least the greeting still applies. q:
How's the weather down there? (Down being the hole thru the center of the earth.)
| 288 |
MandyManners Sun, Sep 20, 2009 6:17:51am |
re: #282 turn
boarding, "see" ya in Denver
You mean, in Kansas 'cause DIA is almost there.
God speed!
| 289 |
laZardo Sun, Sep 20, 2009 6:17:58am |
re: #287 Danny
Erratic. Was pouring a couple hours ago, and searing sunny this morning.
| 290 |
Danny Sun, Sep 20, 2009 6:19:03am |
re: #289 laZardo
Pouring here, too (in Tennessee). Breaking records.
| 291 |
MandyManners Sun, Sep 20, 2009 6:20:23am |
| 292 |
albusteve Sun, Sep 20, 2009 6:22:30am |
re: #285 HoosierHoops
You know me..I don't eat 90% of all foods...Nothing religious or anything...
I just am a very picky eater...My curse in life...On the bright side I only weigh 5 lbs heavier than I did in College...
I'm 6ft...205lbs...chisled, sculpted and hard...I have eight girlfriends, and I consider Beef-O-Roni God's gift
| 293 |
MandyManners Sun, Sep 20, 2009 6:22:49am |
re: #290 Danny
Pouring here, too (in Tennessee). Breaking records.
I just checked the NOAA site--ya'll are getting inundated with that massive Low hanging to your north.
I bet the ducks are happy.
| 294 |
Danny Sun, Sep 20, 2009 6:24:41am |
re: #293 MandyManners
I just checked the NOAA site--ya'll are getting inundated with that massive Low hanging to your north.
I bet the ducks are happy.
They are. So am I.
| 295 |
Digital Display Sun, Sep 20, 2009 6:26:03am |
re: #292 albusteve
I'm 6ft...205lbs...chisled, sculpted and hard...I have eight girlfriends, and I consider Beef-O-Roni God's gift
8 girlfriends? So there is a twice on Sunday somewhere in that equation..
| 296 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Sep 20, 2009 6:26:56am |
re: #295 HoosierHoops
8 girlfriends? So there is a twice on Sunday somewhere in that equation..
And probably a "blue pill" reference.
| 297 |
Desert Dog Sun, Sep 20, 2009 6:28:38am |
| 298 |
albusteve Sun, Sep 20, 2009 6:29:30am |
some background on ACORN...not a pretty picture, regardless of whatever good the do
[Link: www.nypost.com...]
| 299 |
funky chicken Sun, Sep 20, 2009 6:31:19am |
re: #248 Oh no...Sand People!
Good bloody night. Now over at HotAir.. Charles has been PAID OFF! That's the reason for his complete 'change'!
Never once would could they fathom that his 'athiest' personage could be just intellectually honest and calling them out on both sides when they are being complete morons...
Too much to grasp for their unapologetic 'toe-the-party-line-in-blind-allegiance-we-can-do no-wrong-therefore-none-of-our-tactics-are-now-wro ng-ever' mentalities...
Intellectual honesty is in short supply and in even lesser demand these days apparently.
honestly, read the comments to any of the posts about John McCain. the insults are pretty much identical. they aren't even original in their transferrence of hate from one person to another. they're just frothing balls of outrage.
and Malkin's column about Michelle Obama's efforts at the UCMC is disgustingly dishonest...she has no problem joining with Bobby Rush to launch a ridiculous attack at MO (of whom I am not a fan) from the fringe left.
My mom worked for a hospital that was being badly financially hurt by indigent patients using their level 1 trauma center ER for their primary care clinic. UCMC has the same issue, and they either need to direct these people to more appropriate settings for their care or go out of business. I really would think an intelligent, honest conservative would see that...but NO, it involved Michelle Obama, so suddenly Malkin is 100% behind the concept that the UCMC must provide insanely expensive ER care to every indigent Chicagoan who gets the sniffles.
Does anybody remember Malkin's crusade against expanding SCHIP?
One big factor in the whole health care debate that both side are very dishonest about--there is quality care available at community clinics for poor and uninsured people. Because no politicians or media people want to report that fact, a lot of these patients don't know about everything (or anything, frankly) that's available to them.
Yes, a fair number of folks also have the entitlement mentality that they are going to walk into the UCMC ER because it's right up the street, but the UCMC took care of that problem by providing them free transportation to the public/reduced cost facility. THAT'S NOT PATIENT DUMPING. It's just directing patients to facilities that accept their insurance (medicaid) or are funded by the county/state/feds to provide good care to those without insurance.
| 300 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Sep 20, 2009 6:31:38am |
re: #298 albusteve
some background on ACORN...not a pretty picture, regardless of whatever good the do
[Link: www.nypost.com...]
Mandy has a ton of links. Those people are crooks.
| 301 |
Desert Dog Sun, Sep 20, 2009 6:32:41am |
re: #298 albusteve
some background on ACORN...not a pretty picture, regardless of whatever good the do
[Link: www.nypost.com...]
Whatcha mean, Steve? ACORN is a great organization. It's just a few "bad apples" that are carrying out this stuff. Didn't you get the memo?
/
| 302 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Sep 20, 2009 6:33:36am |
Crap, if I don't mow now, I don't get to see 1 PM. football. See ya'll.
| 303 |
albusteve Sun, Sep 20, 2009 6:34:15am |
re: #301 Desert Dog
Whatcha mean, Steve? ACORN is a great organization. It's just a few "bad apples" that are carrying out this stuff. Didn't you get the memo?
/
telegraph lines into Ft. Willow are down again...
| 304 |
Desert Dog Sun, Sep 20, 2009 6:34:51am |
re: #302 Cannadian Club Akbar
Crap, if I don't mow now, I don't get to see 1 PM. football. See ya'll.
I'll go mow my rocks...no grass here at Dog Manor anymore. It was not worth the $1,000,000,000 water bills to keep my 10x10 section of grass alive.
| 305 |
MandyManners Sun, Sep 20, 2009 6:36:10am |
re: #298 albusteve
some background on ACORN...not a pretty picture, regardless of whatever good the do
[Link: www.nypost.com...]
ACORN is rooted in extreme far-left activism that wants to shut down the US government by overwhelming it with demands for welfare benefits and other forms of assistance.
Doesn't this go back to Cloward-Piven?
| 306 |
MandyManners Sun, Sep 20, 2009 6:36:51am |
re: #300 Cannadian Club Akbar
Mandy has a ton of links. Those people are crooks.
This is one I don't have but, I'm pretty sure that the information here is a distillation of the information in my other links.
| 307 |
albusteve Sun, Sep 20, 2009 6:43:18am |
re: #305 MandyManners
ACORN is rooted in extreme far-left activism that wants to shut down the US government by overwhelming it with demands for welfare benefits and other forms of assistance.
Doesn't this go back to Cloward-Piven?
certainly...any defense of these guys is misguided imo...there has to be a better way...and ANY tinkering with the electorate should be instantly and thoroughly investigated...a vote is the premier right in this country
| 308 |
funky chicken Sun, Sep 20, 2009 6:43:22am |
McCroskey was immersed in the so-called horrorcore rap music scene, and he recorded songs that spoke of death, murder and mutilation under the name Syko Sam. His MySpace page says he has only been rapping for a few months.On his personal Web page, McCroskey posted videos and pictures of a grave where a cross and miniature American flags had been turned upside down.
"We defiled the grave, and then lightning struck seconds ago. I think we were being warned," he says in the video, laughing. In the photos, the gravestone identifies the person buried there as a Marine.
McCroskey's page shows that he last logged in on Friday. His status is listed as "out of town" and his mood "determined."
The owner of a small, independent record label that specializes in the horrorcore genre said others shouldn't judge McCroskey by what they see on his Web site or hear in his music. Andres Shrim, who owns Serial Killin Records in New Mexico and performs himself under the name SickTanicK, described McCroskey as a "great kid," articulate, smart and professional.
Yet another example of the "don't be judgemental" mindset taken to extremes. Unbelievable, and it makes me really sad that my kids are growing up with this kind of crap ... Saw movies? YHGTBFKM.
| 309 |
MandyManners Sun, Sep 20, 2009 6:49:48am |
re: #308 funky chicken
The owner of a small, independent record label that specializes in the horrorcore genre said others shouldn't judge McCroskey by what they see on his Web site or hear in his music. Andres Shrim, who owns Serial Killin Records in New Mexico and performs himself under the name SickTanicK, described McCroskey as a "great kid," articulate, smart and professional.
Right. Let's judge him by his alleged actions: killing four people. Never mind the depraved mind that allowed him to work up the nerve to kill.
I wonder if the defense will try to get this stuff kept away from the jury.
| 310 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sun, Sep 20, 2009 6:50:02am |
My sister-in-law just bitched me out because I never respond to her posts on Facebook.
I just sent her a listing of the the last five insipid posts... What kind of Vera "somebody" pattern she is; what book of the bible she is; whether she is fucking donnie or marie; and pictures of them on vacation...
She really thinks I give a shit.
Fur will probably fly on that one.
| 311 |
Desert Dog Sun, Sep 20, 2009 6:51:54am |
re: #310 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
My sister-in-law just bitched me out because I never respond to her posts on Facebook.
I just sent her a listing of the the last five insipid posts... What kind of Vera "somebody" pattern she is; what book of the bible she is; whether she is fucking donnie or marie; and pictures of them on vacation...
She really thinks I give a shit.
Fur will probably fly on that one.
I made the mistake of responding on my wife's facebook. An hour later, I looked down and there were 35 emails on my Blackberry from all her friends, also commenting. That's why I stay away from Facebook. My wife is on "my page" more than I am.
| 312 |
MandyManners Sun, Sep 20, 2009 6:54:21am |
re: #310 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
My sister-in-law just bitched me out because I never respond to her posts on Facebook.
I just sent her a listing of the the last five insipid posts... What kind of Vera "somebody" pattern she is; what book of the bible she is; whether she is fucking donnie or marie; and pictures of them on vacation...
She really thinks I give a shit.
Fur will probably fly on that one.
Does she have other problems with boundaries?
| 313 |
laZardo Sun, Sep 20, 2009 6:54:52am |
re: #308 funky chicken
You should read up about the Insane Clown Posse.
/NSFW for severe un-PCness for humor purposes.
//also be sure to hover your cursor over the links. :)
| 314 |
Desert Dog Sun, Sep 20, 2009 6:56:03am |
re: #308 funky chicken
Yet another example of the "don't be judgemental" mindset taken to extremes. Unbelievable, and it makes me really sad that my kids are growing up with this kind of crap ... Saw movies? YHGTBFKM.
[Link: www.msnbc.msn.com...]
My older sons love those movies. Anything to do with zombies, especially. I tried to watch that "Saw" movie. What a piece of sh*t. I had them watch the scary movies I grew up with, The Exorcist, The Omen, Rosemary's Baby. They were not impressed at all. They want the gore, blood and guts, forget the story, the actors, the plot.
| 315 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Sun, Sep 20, 2009 6:56:19am |
re: #312 MandyManners
Oh yeah. She is "other world deaf".
| 316 |
funky chicken Sun, Sep 20, 2009 6:57:15am |
re: #313 laZardo
You should read up about the Insane Clown Posse.
/NSFW for severe un-PCness for humor purposes.
//also be sure to hover your cursor over the links. :)
Um, I'm not amused by this stuff.
| 318 |
Desert Dog Sun, Sep 20, 2009 6:59:27am |
Off to walk the dog, then check on the parents...back before kickoff. Y'all have a nice day, ya hear?
| 319 |
Cato the Elder Sun, Sep 20, 2009 6:59:46am |
Did Shug flounce over on the last thread?
| 320 |
MandyManners Sun, Sep 20, 2009 7:02:04am |
| 322 |
Cato the Elder Sun, Sep 20, 2009 7:03:21am |
re: #321 irish rose
Good morning, lizards.
We lost Shug? WTH?
I'm just asking. Check his last post. Sounded kinda flouncy to me.
I would regret it.
| 323 |
albusteve Sun, Sep 20, 2009 7:03:37am |
| 324 |
MandyManners Sun, Sep 20, 2009 7:05:37am |
| 325 |
irish rose Sun, Sep 20, 2009 7:06:42am |
If you're out there Shug, please come back.
You'll be terribly missed if you go.
| 326 |
funky chicken Sun, Sep 20, 2009 7:11:10am |
interesting swine flu article...2nd half of article is better than the first..
[Link: www.cnn.com...]
| 327 |
Cato the Elder Sun, Sep 20, 2009 7:12:25am |
re: #324 MandyManners
He's not banned.
It was late. Charles wasn't there.
Shug, people were sticking up for Zombie. It was an argument over the definition of "cherry-picking" - to what extent it exists when pointing out the crazies on the right or the left. I love Zomb's work, though I don't always agree with its interpretation. If Charles is cherry-picking with these posts - and he's not - then Zombie cherry-picks too. Which it's not.
Come back and post something before you get misinterpreted, Shug.
| 328 |
_RememberTonyC Sun, Sep 20, 2009 7:12:28am |
Good Morning, Lizards. Today I was reading a column in the Hartford Courant by Kevin Rennie and found this extreme racism by none other than the sanctimonious jimmy carter:
'A throwback to Hitlerian racism." A recent description of public debate in the eighth circle of polemic hell? No, that was the Rev. Jesse Jackson hurling an accusation at Democratic presidential aspirant Jimmy Carter 33 years ago. Vitriol wasn't invented this summer.
Carter incensed Jackson during his 1976 presidential campaign when the former Georgia governor declared "there's nothing wrong with ethnic purity being maintained" in a neighborhood. It was as jarring a phrase then as it is now, but Carter was in search of votes among the white ethnic urban Democratic primary voters hostile to government housing programs that brought racial integration.
Pressed to explain, Carter's venomous piety nearly ended his campaign. According to Time magazine, "Carter's face reddened with anger, and he began to sweat. Instead of softening his language, he spoke of housing policies in terms of 'black intrusion,' of 'alien groups' and of 'a diametrically opposite kind of family.'"
So the next time jimmy carter talks about the racism of others, it is likely he is projecting his own vile prejudice onto others who are not evil hypocrites like him.
| 329 |
Cato the Elder Sun, Sep 20, 2009 7:16:01am |
re: #328 _RememberTonyC
Good Morning, Lizards. Today I was reading a column in the Hartford Courant by Kevin Rennie and found this extreme racism by none other than the sanctimonious jimmy carter:
So the next time jimmy carter talks about the racism of others, it is likely he is projecting his own vile prejudice onto others who are not evil hypocrites like him.
Damn straight. Carter would, and did, do damn near anything to get elected, including playing the "I'm from the South so I know how you feel" card. Nudge, wink.
I remember it. I was there.
He's a piece of shit.
| 330 |
funky chicken Sun, Sep 20, 2009 7:18:07am |
re: #290 Danny
Pouring here, too (in Tennessee). Breaking records.
So, is this system going to be enough to be considered a drought breaker?
| 331 |
_RememberTonyC Sun, Sep 20, 2009 7:19:56am |
re: #329 Cato the Elder
Damn straight. Carter would, and did, do damn near anything to get elected, including playing the "I'm from the South so I know how you feel" card. Nudge, wink.
I remember it. I was there.
He's a piece of shit.
carter is the most loathsome ex-President in my lifetime. If "only the good die young," he will live to be 100.
| 332 |
MandyManners Sun, Sep 20, 2009 7:20:19am |
re: #327 Cato the Elder
It was late. Charles wasn't there.
Shug, people were sticking up for Zombie. It was an argument over the definition of "cherry-picking" - to what extent it exists when pointing out the crazies on the right or the left. I love Zomb's work, though I don't always agree with its interpretation. If Charles is cherry-picking with these posts - and he's not - then Zombie cherry-picks too. Which it's not.
Come back and post something before you get misinterpreted, Shug.
It was flounce? If so, it's unlike any flounce I've read ever before.
| 333 |
_RememberTonyC Sun, Sep 20, 2009 7:22:40am |
re: #332 MandyManners
It was flounce? If so, it's unlike any flounce I've read ever before.
I've always liked Shug ... but sometimes I get a bit burned out from the give and take. Maybe he just needs a little break and he'll be back. His post was not bitter in its tone.
| 334 |
Cato the Elder Sun, Sep 20, 2009 7:22:59am |
re: #332 MandyManners
It was flounce? If so, it's unlike any flounce I've read ever before.
I hope you're right.
| 335 |
MandyManners Sun, Sep 20, 2009 7:24:30am |
re: #328 _RememberTonyC
Good Morning, Lizards. Today I was reading a column in the Hartford Courant by Kevin Rennie and found this extreme racism by none other than the sanctimonious jimmy carter:
So the next time jimmy carter talks about the racism of others, it is likely he is projecting his own vile prejudice onto others who are not evil hypocrites like him.
Link? (Yes, I'm lazy.)
| 336 |
MandyManners Sun, Sep 20, 2009 7:25:44am |
| 337 |
_RememberTonyC Sun, Sep 20, 2009 7:26:46am |
Last night I watched the movie "The Boy in the Striped Pajamas." For those who think extremism in the defense of some warped idealism is OK, I'd suggest watching that film. You will have a whole new perspective on how demonizing others can consume someone you love in ways you never expected.
| 338 |
_RememberTonyC Sun, Sep 20, 2009 7:27:22am |
| 339 |
MandyManners Sun, Sep 20, 2009 7:27:24am |
re: #328 _RememberTonyC
Good Morning, Lizards. Today I was reading a column in the Hartford Courant by Kevin Rennie and found this extreme racism by none other than the sanctimonious jimmy carter:
So the next time jimmy carter talks about the racism of others, it is likely he is projecting his own vile prejudice onto others who are not evil hypocrites like him.
Rennie? I know that name. There was a link to one of his columns earlier this year. I think it was about the ACORN bus trips to Greenwich. Maybe not.
| 340 |
MandyManners Sun, Sep 20, 2009 7:27:41am |
| 342 |
funky chicken Sun, Sep 20, 2009 7:32:06am |
Lefty celebutard faith healers strike again:
[Link: scienceblogs.com...]
the comments are excellent too. if your blood pressure is low this morning, follow the link to orac's post about Mike Adams from a couple of days ago.
| 345 |
_RememberTonyC Sun, Sep 20, 2009 7:33:07am |
re: #339 MandyManners
Rennie? I know that name. There was a link to one of his columns earlier this year. I think it was about the ACORN bus trips to Greenwich. Maybe not.
sounds about right ... he's the "token Republican" on the Hartford Courant staff.
| 346 |
Cato the Elder Sun, Sep 20, 2009 7:33:36am |
re: #336 MandyManners
We all get our knickers in a twist here at times.
Dammit, Mandy, I've been trying to pretend for Haakondahl's benefit that I don't wear knickers, and here you go outing me like this...!
| 350 |
_RememberTonyC Sun, Sep 20, 2009 7:38:32am |
I'm checking out for awhile ... gonna take a walk on this crisp New England morning. BBL ... Hope you all have a good one!
| 351 |
Irish Rose Sun, Sep 20, 2009 7:39:36am |
re: #350 _RememberTonyC
I'm checking out for awhile ... gonna take a walk on this crisp New England morning. BBL ... Hope you all have a good one!
That sounds good, I may take the dog down to the lighthouse myself this morning.
| 352 |
MandyManners Sun, Sep 20, 2009 7:40:49am |
re: #345 _RememberTonyC
sounds about right ... he's the "token Republican" on the Hartford Courant staff.
At least the Courant has one. Not all mid-sized dailies have a token Republican.
| 353 |
MandyManners Sun, Sep 20, 2009 7:41:35am |
re: #346 Cato the Elder
Dammit, Mandy, I've been trying to pretend for Haakondahl's benefit that I don't wear knickers, and here you go outing me like this...!
Wearing them when you're alone doesn't count.
| 354 |
MandyManners Sun, Sep 20, 2009 7:42:32am |
re: #350 _RememberTonyC
I'm checking out for awhile ... gonna take a walk on this crisp New England morning. BBL ... Hope you all have a good one!
It's crisp there already? Can snow be far behind?
| 355 |
Irish Rose Sun, Sep 20, 2009 7:44:27am |
| 356 |
JanglerNPL Sun, Sep 20, 2009 7:44:35am |
re: #338 _RememberTonyC
Ugh. I think the columnist misses the mark on Pelosi, except perhaps for her "carpet-bombing" bit, but he sure does have Carter dead to rights.
| 357 |
MandyManners Sun, Sep 20, 2009 7:46:26am |
re: #351 Irish Rose
That sounds good, I may take the dog down to the lighthouse myself this morning.
| 358 |
MandyManners Sun, Sep 20, 2009 7:47:28am |
| 359 |
Digital Display Sun, Sep 20, 2009 7:47:29am |
re: #355 Irish Rose
Bite your tongue.
Good Morning Irish..Closed the pool yesterday...Winter is nigh on the way..
Damn!
| 360 |
Cato the Elder Sun, Sep 20, 2009 7:50:45am |
I love winter. I'm moving to a place where they have more of it.
| 361 |
MandyManners Sun, Sep 20, 2009 7:51:15am |
re: #359 HoosierHoops
Good Morning Irish..Closed the pool yesterday...Winter is nigh on the way..
Damn!
It seems like you opened it just the other day.
| 362 |
SixDegrees Sun, Sep 20, 2009 7:51:25am |
re: #355 Irish Rose
Bite your tongue.
It's dipped into the mid-40s the last two nights around here. Early for such low temperatures, but the whole summer has been very cool - we may set a record.
Fine with me. Today - lows in the 40s, highs in the mid-70s - is my idea of perfect.
| 363 |
MandyManners Sun, Sep 20, 2009 7:51:48am |
re: #360 Cato the Elder
I love winter. I'm moving to a place where they have more of it.
Wool knickers.
| 364 |
Digital Display Sun, Sep 20, 2009 7:55:30am |
re: #361 MandyManners
It seems like you opened it just the other day.
You are so right..Springtime came and went so fast...
Thank God for the Hot tub...Let it snow..I'll be toasty on the deck...
/Programming note...It's raining in Indiana.. The BBQ party got canceled...
dang it!
| 365 |
funky chicken Sun, Sep 20, 2009 7:55:41am |
I wish winter was on the way. We've gotten so much rain that we've got a big mosquito problem. I don't know why cities don't seem to send the mosquito fogging trucks around any more. I remember them coming around once a month when I grew up outside Kansas City.
I think we could start to see outbreaks of malaria in a lot of the southern US again.
On that cheery note, I'm off for the day. See ya.
| 367 |
MandyManners Sun, Sep 20, 2009 7:58:35am |
re: #364 HoosierHoops
You are so right..Springtime came and went so fast...
Thank God for the Hot tub...Let it snow..I'll be toasty on the deck...
/Programming note...It's raining in Indiana.. The BBQ party got canceled...
dang it!
One word: umbrellas.
| 368 |
MandyManners Sun, Sep 20, 2009 7:58:58am |
re: #365 funky chicken
I wish winter was on the way. We've gotten so much rain that we've got a big mosquito problem. I don't know why cities don't seem to send the mosquito fogging trucks around any more. I remember them coming around once a month when I grew up outside Kansas City.
I think we could start to see outbreaks of malaria in a lot of the southern US again.
On that cheery note, I'm off for the day. See ya.
DDT?
| 369 |
MandyManners Sun, Sep 20, 2009 8:00:56am |
| 370 |
Killgore Trout Sun, Sep 20, 2009 8:02:56am |
Charles noticed last night that Malkin has added VDARE to her blog roll. Things are gonna get weird.
| 372 |
SixDegrees Sun, Sep 20, 2009 8:04:59am |
re: #365 funky chicken
I wish winter was on the way. We've gotten so much rain that we've got a big mosquito problem. I don't know why cities don't seem to send the mosquito fogging trucks around any more. I remember them coming around once a month when I grew up outside Kansas City.
I think we could start to see outbreaks of malaria in a lot of the southern US again.
On that cheery note, I'm off for the day. See ya.
The problem with fogging is that it's indiscriminate - it kills all sorts of other bugs in addition to mosquitoes.
I wouldn't be concerned about malaria. The parasite itself seems to have been wiped out in much of the US, so even if the particular mosquito species that carry it are still around there's probably no danger of them contracting the parasite.
A better solution than pesticides is eliminating habitat - stagnant water. Cleaning out gutters so they drain completely; getting rid of old tires, or at least puncturing them so they don't hold water; eliminating empty drums, pots, saucers and other vessels that can hold water for more than a couple of days all make a huge difference, and it isn't that hard to accomplish. One home we had in Michigan went from a stinking, intolerable miasma of bloodsucking clouds to a place where we could eat outside and spend the remaining evening out there after doing nothing more than what was just described.
There are certainly areas that need more drastic measures - I remember an unfortunate journey into the north woods where it was impossible to breath without inhaling a couple of mosquitoes with each breath, and hundreds of the bitches swarmed the inside of the car after a mad dash back to it's relative safety - but a lot can be done just by getting people educated and motivated to eliminate breeding habitat.
| 373 |
MandyManners Sun, Sep 20, 2009 8:05:18am |
re: #370 Killgore Trout
Charles noticed last night that Malkin has added VDARE to her blog roll. Things are gonna get weird.
She deleted LGF and now has linked VDARE? Doesn' she know what many there think of non-Anglos?!
| 374 |
SixDegrees Sun, Sep 20, 2009 8:06:03am |
| 375 |
MandyManners Sun, Sep 20, 2009 8:07:15am |
re: #374 SixDegrees
Not in the US, anyway. Probably a malathion relative.
But, this was when funky chicken was growing up. When was DDT banned here?
| 376 |
SixDegrees Sun, Sep 20, 2009 8:08:06am |
re: #370 Killgore Trout
Charles noticed last night that Malkin has added VDARE to her blog roll. Things are gonna get weird.
Did she add it, or has it always been there? I'm waiting for her next immigration or racism post to bring it to the comment section's attention. Not sure if she'll see it herself, as she doesn't seem to ever read the comments that I've ever noticed.
| 377 |
Gang of One Sun, Sep 20, 2009 8:08:53am |
Good morning all. Shana Tovah to all who celebrate. Must admit I've bee standing in the shadows lately -- not much to say, other than how sad it is that so many lizards have decided to leave or have felt betrayed somehow by Charles' unwillingness to compromise his honesty and integrity. Things just don't seem right these days.
/sigh ...
| 378 |
SixDegrees Sun, Sep 20, 2009 8:09:35am |
re: #375 MandyManners
But, this was when funky chicken was growing up. When was DDT banned here?
You're correct; DDT was banned in 1972, I believe, so it's certainly possible it was used for such purposes prior to that.
| 379 |
Killgore Trout Sun, Sep 20, 2009 8:11:59am |
RS McCain is devoting his blog to attacking LGF and pimiping his blog in the comments at Hot Air. We're on the cusp of the push to create an openly racist Republican party.
/That's not an exaggeration.
| 380 |
Killgore Trout Sun, Sep 20, 2009 8:12:59am |
re: #377 Gang of One
It is a bummer. I hate to see old lizards go. We're experiencing some really strange stuff these days.
| 381 |
MandyManners Sun, Sep 20, 2009 8:13:40am |
I did a Wiki on DDT. That lead me to William Ruckelshaus' page which lead me to the Perkins Coie page. My, my.
Perkins Coie is an international law firm based in Seattle, Washington. It has been listed on the Fortune Magazine "100 Best Places to Work in America" for the past seven years.[1] It is noted for its intellectual property practice, and for its political law group, which Chambers regularly ranks first in the United States. The firm is counsel of record for the Democratic National Committee, and other political clients include nearly all Democratic members of the United States Congress, as well as several Presidential campaigns, including those of John Kerry and Barack Obama. Its corporate clients include international high-technology and telecommunications companies.
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]
| 382 |
MandyManners Sun, Sep 20, 2009 8:14:21am |
re: #376 SixDegrees
Did she add it, or has it always been there? I'm waiting for her next immigration or racism post to bring it to the comment section's attention. Not sure if she'll see it herself, as she doesn't seem to ever read the comments that I've ever noticed.
She doesn't? Isn't that incredibly irresponsible?
| 383 |
MandyManners Sun, Sep 20, 2009 8:15:12am |
re: #379 Killgore Trout
RS McCain is devoting his blog to attacking LGF and pimiping his blog in the comments at Hot Air. We're on the cusp of the push to create an openly racist Republican party.
/That's not an exaggeration.
Gee. Someone should alert Steele.
| 384 |
Irish Rose Sun, Sep 20, 2009 8:16:22am |
re: #362 SixDegrees
It's dipped into the mid-40s the last two nights around here. Early for such low temperatures, but the whole summer has been very cool - we may set a record.
Fine with me. Today - lows in the 40s, highs in the mid-70s - is my idea of perfect.
Me too.
Sweetie and I spent the day at the Michigan Renaissance Festival yesterday... went out to enjoy the jousting, stage entertainment and good food like we do every year. It was a cool, sunny, bright early autumn day - glorioius weather. I have a heavyweight, highly detailed, Ren costume that I often wear for these occasions and I never even broke a sweat.
| 385 |
Irish Rose Sun, Sep 20, 2009 8:17:36am |
re: #373 MandyManners
She deleted LGF and now has linked VDARE? Doesn' she know what many there think of non-Anglos?!
She knows.
And she doesn't care.
| 386 |
SixDegrees Sun, Sep 20, 2009 8:18:49am |
re: #382 MandyManners
She doesn't? Isn't that incredibly irresponsible?
I've never noticed her presence there. For as long as I can remember there has been absolutely no moderation at her site. The most vile comments are allowed to stand indefinitely, even after notifying Malkin (or whoever reads her contact form email) directly. And she has never posted a comment there herself that I'm aware of. In short, there's no evidence at all that she even reads the section.
| 387 |
Mich-again Sun, Sep 20, 2009 8:20:53am |
re: #379 Killgore Trout
RS McCain is devoting his blog to attacking LGF and pimiping his blog in the comments at Hot Air.
After reading through some of his nonsense, I have him pegged as the angry drunk type.
| 388 |
Digital Display Sun, Sep 20, 2009 8:20:56am |
re: #380 Killgore Trout
It is a bummer. I hate to see old lizards go. We're experiencing some really strange stuff these days.
They have chosen their path...Charles could open registration and have thousands of wanna be lizards rushing through the door in a frenzy...
This has deeper roots in a seismic shift with the GOP..Where the right wing is lurching towards..I've always been a moderate conservative and I am amazed of what has become of our principles this year...
| 389 |
SixDegrees Sun, Sep 20, 2009 8:21:25am |
re: #384 Irish Rose
Me too.
Sweetie and I spent the day at the Michigan Renaissance Festival yesterday... went out to enjoy the jousting, stage entertainment and good food like we do every year. It was a cool, sunny, bright early autumn day - glorioius weather. I have a heavyweight, highly detailed, Ren costume that I often wear for these occasions and I never even broke a sweat.
Good for you. We attend sporadically, but didn't make it this year. Many years ago, in a previous life, I did a lot of printing for the Festival when it was just getting started. Lots of fun people running it, many of whom are still around.
It certainly has been a spectacular summer around here, although maybe not so much if you're a swimmer. Still, I'll take this over the mid-90s and 100% humidity we've been blasted with in summers past.
| 390 |
laZardo Sun, Sep 20, 2009 8:21:26am |
re: #379 Killgore Trout
The mask is off, and perhaps finally so.
| 391 |
Killgore Trout Sun, Sep 20, 2009 8:22:55am |
Comment over at Hot Air...
Blacks are being used to destroy liberty.He knows it…
…and more and more are catching on.
Saltysam on September 20, 2009 at 7:49 AM
I think that sums it up. There's a reason why right wing blogs read like Stormfront these days. It's intentional.
| 392 |
MandyManners Sun, Sep 20, 2009 8:24:13am |
| 393 |
laZardo Sun, Sep 20, 2009 8:24:14am |
re: #388 HoosierHoops
They have chosen their path...Charles could open registration and have thousands of wanna be lizards rushing through the door in a frenzy...
This has deeper roots in a seismic shift with the GOP..Where the right wing is lurching towards..I've always been a moderate conservative and I am amazed of what has become of our principles this year...
There's a difference between conservative and libertarian (lowercase 'l', nothing to do with the fringe party.) Small governmental values are slowly making themselves relevant, unfortunately the conservatives are the ones intending to push them.
| 394 |
MandyManners Sun, Sep 20, 2009 8:24:58am |
re: #386 SixDegrees
I've never noticed her presence there. For as long as I can remember there has been absolutely no moderation at her site. The most vile comments are allowed to stand indefinitely, even after notifying Malkin (or whoever reads her contact form email) directly. And she has never posted a comment there herself that I'm aware of. In short, there's no evidence at all that she even reads the section.
What about libelous posts? Violations of copy-right? Death threats against elected officials?
| 395 |
Killgore Trout Sun, Sep 20, 2009 8:25:25am |
re: #391 Killgore Trout
That comment is buried among the posts bashing LGF and supporting Vlaams Belang.
| 396 |
Kronocide Sun, Sep 20, 2009 8:25:55am |
re: #391 Killgore Trout
The only way for conservatism to redeem itself is to let all that crap hang out then separate from it. Maybe this is the last upwelling of pent up racism within the right that needs to happen before it can move on. I hope anyway.
| 397 |
Irish Rose Sun, Sep 20, 2009 8:26:48am |
re: #386 SixDegrees
I've never noticed her presence there. For as long as I can remember there has been absolutely no moderation at her site. The most vile comments are allowed to stand indefinitely, even after notifying Malkin (or whoever reads her contact form email) directly. And she has never posted a comment there herself that I'm aware of. In short, there's no evidence at all that she even reads the section.
She responded to me once on forum. I publicly called her out on two bigoted slurs... one against muslims, and one against Latinos/Mexicans. She removed the "r*ghead slur, but refused to remove the other.
| 398 |
Killgore Trout Sun, Sep 20, 2009 8:27:14am |
re: #396 BigPapa
The only way for conservatism to redeem itself is to let all that crap hang out then separate from it. Maybe this is the last upwelling of pent up racism within the right that needs to happen before it can move on. I hope anyway.
It's going to be a messy process.
| 399 |
Irish Rose Sun, Sep 20, 2009 8:28:21am |
re: #388 HoosierHoops
They have chosen their path...Charles could open registration and have thousands of wanna be lizards rushing through the door in a frenzy...
This has deeper roots in a seismic shift with the GOP..Where the right wing is lurching towards..I've always been a moderate conservative and I am amazed of what has become of our principles this year...
So am I, it's appalling and disgusting.
| 400 |
SixDegrees Sun, Sep 20, 2009 8:28:29am |
re: #394 MandyManners
What about libelous posts? Violations of copy-right? Death threats against elected officials?
I can't point to any offhand, and can't say that I've noticed such. But I don't spend a whole lot of time over there.
I have never seen a post removed, however, even after notifying the powers that be.
It's basically open registration over there. If someone wants to post something truly vile...well, first of all, good luck outdoing what's already there on a daily basis. But even if posted during RBH, I'm betting it will stay there forever.
| 401 |
Irish Rose Sun, Sep 20, 2009 8:29:35am |
re: #398 Killgore Trout
It's going to be a messy process.
And driving it out into the sunlight is the only way to make it happen.
| 402 |
Mich-again Sun, Sep 20, 2009 8:29:38am |
re: #384 Irish Rose
We went to the Apple Orchard yesterday in Huron Township for U-pick apples, fresh cider and doughnuts. Just a perfect day to be out there. And to any local lizards who knew Apple Charlie, he passed away a couple days ago at his farmhouse there. He'd been around forever it seemed. I remember him taking us on hay rides around the orchard way back when I was a kid. So raise a glass of cider for Apple Charlie!
| 403 |
SixDegrees Sun, Sep 20, 2009 8:29:52am |
re: #397 Irish Rose
She responded to me once on forum. I publicly called her out on two bigoted slurs... one against muslims, and one against Latinos/Mexicans. She removed the "r*ghead slur, but refused to remove the other.
Good to know...sort of. It's more than I've ever seen happen.
| 404 |
Digital Display Sun, Sep 20, 2009 8:30:04am |
re: #393 laZardo
There's a difference between conservative and libertarian (lowercase 'l', nothing to do with the fringe party.) Small governmental values are slowly making themselves relevant, unfortunately the conservatives are the ones intending to push them.
Dude you are so right.. I saw my first Ron Paul 2012 bumper sticker yesterday.. I saw a pickup truck 2 minutes later with a huge rebel flag flying from the back.. I belong to a private golf club to hang out with the guys and I hear things said that remind me why the KKK was so powerful in Indiana...
There is an element of racism creeping into the right wing...
I don't fucking like it!
| 405 |
MandyManners Sun, Sep 20, 2009 8:31:18am |
re: #400 SixDegrees
I can't point to any offhand, and can't say that I've noticed such. But I don't spend a whole lot of time over there.
I have never seen a post removed, however, even after notifying the powers that be.
It's basically open registration over there. If someone wants to post something truly vile...well, first of all, good luck outdoing what's already there on a daily basis. But even if posted during RBH, I'm betting it will stay there forever.
Wouldn't she be held liable for libelous posts and violations of copy-right laws? It's *her* site.
| 406 |
Irish Rose Sun, Sep 20, 2009 8:33:19am |
re: #389 SixDegrees
Good for you. We attend sporadically, but didn't make it this year. Many years ago, in a previous life, I did a lot of printing for the Festival when it was just getting started. Lots of fun people running it, many of whom are still around.
It certainly has been a spectacular summer around here, although maybe not so much if you're a swimmer. Still, I'll take this over the mid-90s and 100% humidity we've been blasted with in summers past.
Have you ever seen the washing wenches perform?
Brilliant.
| 407 |
Mich-again Sun, Sep 20, 2009 8:34:12am |
re: #405 MandyManners
They have the standard disclaimer about not endorsing any comments whether or not they remove them.
| 408 |
SixDegrees Sun, Sep 20, 2009 8:34:27am |
re: #396 BigPapa
The only way for conservatism to redeem itself is to let all that crap hang out then separate from it. Maybe this is the last upwelling of pent up racism within the right that needs to happen before it can move on. I hope anyway.
I'd disagree that it's Conservatism that needs redemption. But I'd agree that Conservatives need to assert leadership over a movement which is increasingly being hijacked by other interests, and establish a clear separation from those with overlapping interests in what Conservatism promotes but who stand far outside of core Conservative principles when it comes to agenda and goals.
| 409 |
laZardo Sun, Sep 20, 2009 8:34:35am |
re: #404 HoosierHoops
I always thought the racism was always there (over the last 200 years, even), just more subtle. The fact that the president is a person of color is really bringing that out in spades.
Granted, there are a lot of liberals and centrists that loathe political correctness, but that should never mix with outright racism.
| 410 |
Irish Rose Sun, Sep 20, 2009 8:34:54am |
re: #402 Mich-again
We went to the Apple Orchard yesterday in Huron Township for U-pick apples, fresh cider and doughnuts. Just a perfect day to be out there. And to any local lizards who knew Apple Charlie, he passed away a couple days ago at his farmhouse there. He'd been around forever it seemed. I remember him taking us on hay rides around the orchard way back when I was a kid. So raise a glass of cider for Apple Charlie!
A life well lived.
Do you go for the Honey Crisps?
| 411 |
JamesTKirk Sun, Sep 20, 2009 8:36:18am |
| 412 |
JamesTKirk Sun, Sep 20, 2009 8:36:46am |
(I didn't want to be awake yet, but my son had other plans.)
| 413 |
JamesTKirk Sun, Sep 20, 2009 8:37:49am |
| 414 |
Kronocide Sun, Sep 20, 2009 8:37:52am |
re: #398 Killgore Trout
It's going to be a messy process.
Seems to be that way but its ultimately necessary. Conservatism is taking a lot of lumps: racism, radical religious influence, capitalism being blamed for market ills, and even the ratcheting up the rhetoric on Rand it seems.
It needs to get worse before it gets better.
| 415 |
Danny Sun, Sep 20, 2009 8:38:14am |
re: #404 HoosierHoops
Dude you are so right.. I saw my first Ron Paul 2012 bumper sticker yesterday.. I saw a pickup truck 2 minutes later with a huge rebel flag flying from the back.
Where I live you can drive down subdivision streets where nearly every house has a Ron Paul campaign sign in the yard.
| 416 |
Mich-again Sun, Sep 20, 2009 8:38:52am |
re: #404 HoosierHoops
I believe the Birchers and Stormfront kooks see the power vacuum in the GOP and are coming out from the shadows to make a play for the 2012 nomination for their guy Ron Paul. Which is not to say RP subscribes to the white nationalism of Stormfront, but he's the closest thing they'll find to a candidate who agrees with them on most all the issues. And he made it clear in 2008 that he didn't care who came to his rallies and supported him and contributed. He refused to distance himself from any of the kooks.
| 417 |
MandyManners Sun, Sep 20, 2009 8:38:57am |
re: #407 Mich-again
They have the standard disclaimer about not endorsing any comments whether or not they remove them.
Maybe that works for the legal aspects but, it doesn't mean crap for me.
| 419 |
JamesTKirk Sun, Sep 20, 2009 8:40:39am |
| 420 |
debutaunt Sun, Sep 20, 2009 8:40:45am |
re: #404 HoosierHoops
Dude you are so right.. I saw my first Ron Paul 2012 bumper sticker yesterday.. I saw a pickup truck 2 minutes later with a huge rebel flag flying from the back.. I belong to a private golf club to hang out with the guys and I hear things said that remind me why the KKK was so powerful in Indiana...
There is an element of racism creeping into the right wing...
I don't fucking like it!
Can you still hang out with the guys while speaking up?
| 421 |
MandyManners Sun, Sep 20, 2009 8:40:53am |
THAT WAS A JOKE. I DID NOT INTEND TO CONVEY THE IDEA THAT PAM AND ROBERT SHARE ANYTHING OTHER THAN IDEOLOGY.
| 422 |
SixDegrees Sun, Sep 20, 2009 8:41:16am |
re: #405 MandyManners
Wouldn't she be held liable for libelous posts and violations of copy-right laws? It's *her* site.
No. Courts have ruled many times that site owners are not responsible for what others post in areas like comment sections. At the very most, she could be forced to remove certain content, but she wouldn't be held liable for it's presence there.
It's considered good form, of course, to respond quickly to complaints of such a nature. I contacted a site that had lifted content from one of my sites without permission; they asked me to fill out a form asserting that the material was mine, along with approximate dates of my original postings, and it was removed within hours. Note that they didn't require anything approaching proof of ownership - they just wanted my assertion in writing that I was the owner. That's usually all it takes - a simple request. Same goes for libel, personal attacks and other legal or just simply rude behavior - it doesn't make the site owner liable, but removing such trash is the professional thing to do.
If things escalate beyond such a point, failure to comply with a court order demanding removal would, of course, lead to further unpleasantness for the site owner. But bringing libel charges because a commenter posted a libelous statement generally isn't going to fly.
| 423 |
Danny Sun, Sep 20, 2009 8:41:37am |
re: #411 JamesTKirk
In bed?
Imagine how much trouble LGF would be in if Joe Wilson had yelled "IN BED" instead.
| 424 |
MandyManners Sun, Sep 20, 2009 8:41:40am |
re: #415 Danny
Where I live you can drive down subdivision streets where nearly every house has a Ron Paul campaign sign in the yard.
There? Really?
| 425 |
SixDegrees Sun, Sep 20, 2009 8:42:14am |
re: #406 Irish Rose
Have you ever seen the washing wenches perform?
Brilliant.
I have. Very entertaining.
| 426 |
Kronocide Sun, Sep 20, 2009 8:42:22am |
re: #404 HoosierHoops
There is an element of racism creeping into the right wing...
I don't fucking like it!
The racists are part of and kin to the right wing. Racism in general isn't 'creeping into it.' It's not inherently right wing.
This is why it's good that they're sowing their oats now and speaking up. Let it all out guys. Once it's all out in the open the real change can begin.
| 427 |
JamesTKirk Sun, Sep 20, 2009 8:42:42am |
re: #421 MandyManners
THAT WAS A JOKE. I DID NOT INTEND TO CONVEY THE IDEA THAT PAM AND ROBERT SHARE ANYTHING OTHER THAN IDEOLOGY.
YEOWCH!! It's too early in the morning for shouting, Mandy. Besides, I think anything in an "in bed" thread should be assumed to be not serious by default, barring evidence to the contrary.
| 428 |
SixDegrees Sun, Sep 20, 2009 8:44:22am |
re: #427 JamesTKirk
YEOWCH!! It's too early in the morning for shouting, Mandy. Besides, I think anything in an "in bed" thread should be assumed to be not serious by default, barring evidence to the contrary.
Uh - wait - you mean the wife and I aren't supposed to take those as suggestions?
| 430 |
Danny Sun, Sep 20, 2009 8:44:31am |
re: #424 MandyManners
Yes, there are lots of RP supporters, especially in the Antioch area.
| 431 |
MandyManners Sun, Sep 20, 2009 8:44:59am |
re: #422 SixDegrees
If things escalate beyond such a point, failure to comply with a court order demanding removal would, of course, lead to further unpleasantness for the site owner.
Such as the FBI showing up and demanding the IP or whatever from a blog owner who had not removed threats against elected officials quickly enough.
| 432 |
JamesTKirk Sun, Sep 20, 2009 8:45:00am |
re: #423 Danny
Imagine how much trouble LGF would be in if Joe Wilson had yelled "IN BED" instead.
Depending on what straight line he was responding to, it could have been hilarious. Still as rude as any other interruption Obama or other presidents have received from the Congress, but at least funny and unexpected (and harder to spin as racist -- though Lord knows they would have still tried).
| 433 |
Danny Sun, Sep 20, 2009 8:45:33am |
re: #432 JamesTKirk
Depending on what straight line he was responding to, it could have been hilarious.
I would still be laughing, probably.
| 434 |
Irish Rose Sun, Sep 20, 2009 8:45:37am |
Is there something in the water thing morning?
| 435 |
MandyManners Sun, Sep 20, 2009 8:45:55am |
re: #427 JamesTKirk
YEOWCH!! It's too early in the morning for shouting, Mandy. Besides, I think anything in an "in bed" thread should be assumed to be not serious by default, barring evidence to the contrary.
I'M CHANNELING YOCHANAN.
| 436 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Sep 20, 2009 8:46:01am |
| 438 |
laZardo Sun, Sep 20, 2009 8:46:02am |
re: #432 JamesTKirk
"Ay yo, Joe, I know you got an opinion and I'mma let you shout, but Iraqi Shoe Thower Guy had the best non-lethal political outburst of all time!"
| 439 |
im_gumby_damnit Sun, Sep 20, 2009 8:46:09am |
What, me worry?
| 441 |
JamesTKirk Sun, Sep 20, 2009 8:46:23am |
| 442 |
MandyManners Sun, Sep 20, 2009 8:46:53am |
| 443 |
avanti Sun, Sep 20, 2009 8:46:55am |
re: #380 Killgore Trout
It is a bummer. I hate to see old lizards go. We're experiencing some really strange stuff these days.
When I first became a lizard last year, it was a tough place for a lefty to try and provide a counter argument. Even trying to defend against some pretty far out partisan attacks would result in a dog pile. KT was always being attacked about the tea parties, and any pro Obama post was attacked. With all of that, LGF was not a echo chamber, all opinions were heard, and the discussions, while heated, gave us opinions from all parts of the spectrum.
The last thing I want to see, is Lizards of any stripe bailing out because they perceive the forum is now "moderate", or "pro Obama". Just because most Lizards are trying to be intellectually honest about the direction the right is headed, does not mean the left is not without problems of it's own or that this forum would not call them out.
Basically, I want the right to call out the left when it screws up, and we need conservatives to stay here and do that, not leave to find yet another echo chamber elsewhere.
| 444 |
Irish Rose Sun, Sep 20, 2009 8:47:28am |
So what do we have here, a new flounce template or something?
| 445 |
Digital Display Sun, Sep 20, 2009 8:47:44am |
re: #420 debutaunt
Can you still hang out with the guys while speaking up?
To my shame. I often stay silent..A lot of those guys are just old bigoted white guys.. One Sunday..And I posted it here last spring we were sitting around the bar and Tiger was on the big screen.. And those fucks started trash talking about Tiger having a white wife...I put them in their place...It's not enough you are the greatest athlete in the world..But you have to trash a man over he falls in love with..It was ugly..But I wasn't really worried about some 80 year punching me in the gut...
| 447 |
Kronocide Sun, Sep 20, 2009 8:48:04am |
Much as I despise Frank Rich he nails this one:
The more the party is identified with nasty name-calling, freak-show protestors, immigrant-bashing (the proximate cause of Wilson’s outburst at Obama) and, yes, racism, the faster it will commit demographic suicide as America becomes ever younger and more diverse. But Democrats shouldn’t be cocky. Over the short term, the real economic grievances lurking beneath the extremism of the Beck brigades can do damage to both parties. A stopped clock is right twice a day. The recession-spawned anger that Beck has tapped into on the right could yet find a more mainstream outlet in a populist revolt from the left and center.
Other than the comment about Wilson's motivation, spot on.
| 448 |
SixDegrees Sun, Sep 20, 2009 8:48:32am |
re: #431 MandyManners
If things escalate beyond such a point, failure to comply with a court order demanding removal would, of course, lead to further unpleasantness for the site owner.
Such as the FBI showing up and demanding the IP or whatever from a blog owner who had not removed threats against elected officials quickly enough.
That's certainly a possibility. A warrant for server logs is a common occurrence these days, and you damn well better comply if served.
Note that this, however, often doesn't involve the site owner so much as the hosting service, which is normally happy to comply with such requests rather than facing shutdown and losing the revenue from hundreds or thousands of accounts as a result.
| 449 |
JamesTKirk Sun, Sep 20, 2009 8:48:49am |
| 450 |
im_gumby_damnit Sun, Sep 20, 2009 8:49:02am |
I messed up the previous link.
| 452 |
SixDegrees Sun, Sep 20, 2009 8:51:30am |
re: #439 im_gumby_damnit
What, me worry?
Not surprising. It was a gathering of religious zealots and theocrats, Huckabee's bread and butter. It would have been really surprising if he hadn't won.
For me, being the winner of the VVS straw poll is an excellent indicator that someone is not qualified to be President. This year's results only confirm that I'm right about this.
| 453 |
MandyManners Sun, Sep 20, 2009 8:52:37am |
re: #445 HoosierHoops
To my shame. I often stay silent..A lot of those guys are just old bigoted white guys.. One Sunday..And I posted it here last spring we were sitting around the bar and Tiger was on the big screen.. And those fucks started trash talking about Tiger having a white wife...I put them in their place...It's not enough you are the greatest athlete in the world..But you have to trash a man over he falls in love with..It was ugly..But I wasn't really worried about some 80 year punching me in the gut...
Good for you for speaking up! Silence implies consent.
| 455 |
Pianobuff Sun, Sep 20, 2009 8:53:18am |
re: #380 Killgore Trout
It is a bummer. I hate to see old lizards go. We're experiencing some really strange stuff these days.
I believe you'll be seeing more of it, although there will always be new posters to take their place.
| 456 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Sep 20, 2009 8:53:58am |
re: #453 MandyManners
Good for you for speaking up! Silence implies consent.
Not according to Harpo Marx and Marcel Marceau!
//
| 457 |
lurking faith Sun, Sep 20, 2009 8:54:36am |
| 458 |
MandyManners Sun, Sep 20, 2009 8:54:43am |
Gotta' greet The Kid when he gets dropped off after church.
| 460 |
J.S. Sun, Sep 20, 2009 8:56:08am |
re: #380 Killgore Trout
It is a bummer. I hate to see old lizards go. We're experiencing some really strange stuff these days.
Yeah, it's unfortunate...(although, I have to say, that up here -- that's up here in Canada -- we're not experiencing the "right-wing crazoids", as with the "Tea Parties", etc. -- just no where on the radar here...guess it's a phenomenon unique to America...on the other hand, up here, we've still got our alignment of the Left-wing crazoids and their Islamist buddies (now that's going along quite fine...)
| 462 |
Killgore Trout Sun, Sep 20, 2009 8:56:29am |
re: #443 avanti
Agreed. Although I'm a classical liberal and not a lefty I've been other side of many issues from many lizards over the years but the overall environment was fair and educational. The environment still is and I hope that our conservative lizards stick around.
| 463 |
turn Sun, Sep 20, 2009 8:58:18am |
free Wi-Fi in Denver too, cool. Hey Water if you are out there the weather is really beautiful here this morning. Real short layover, dang - can't play LGF
| 465 |
Danny Sun, Sep 20, 2009 9:01:24am |
Can anyone recommend a good hands-free auto bluetooth unit that can plug into existing car stereo system?
| 466 |
Pianobuff Sun, Sep 20, 2009 9:01:36am |
re: #462 Killgore Trout
I hope that our conservative lizards stick around.
What's your gut prediction on this happening?
| 467 |
turn Sun, Sep 20, 2009 9:02:03am |
re: #456 sattv4u2
Not according to Harpo Marx and Marcel Marceau!
//
Hey there u2, you get that link I emailed ya? rut to - spinning wheels
| 468 |
im_gumby_damnit Sun, Sep 20, 2009 9:02:06am |
em>re: #452 SixDegrees
That makes me feel a little better.
| 469 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Sep 20, 2009 9:03:08am |
re: #467 turn
Hey there u2, you get that link I emailed ya? rut to - spinning wheels
Got it!
Good read ,, than ks
You should have a couple of e-mail responses
Thanks
| 470 |
Gang of One Sun, Sep 20, 2009 9:04:06am |
re: #463 turn
free Wi-Fi in Denver too, cool. Hey Water if you are out there the weather is really beautiful here this morning. Real short layover, dang - can't play LGF
Yeah, where is Walter L.? Have not seen him in some time. IIRC, a few weeks back he was in heavy disagreement with Charles about the howlers at the town halls. Did he flounce, get banned or what?
| 471 |
turn Sun, Sep 20, 2009 9:05:58am |
re: #469 sattv4u2
Got it!
Good read ,, than ks
You should have a couple of e-mail responses
Thanks
Corporate server is down for maintenance, might not get mail until Mon. thanks.
| 472 |
Killgore Trout Sun, Sep 20, 2009 9:06:27am |
re: #466 Pianobuff
I couldn't venture a guess but we will lose a lot of our more partisan lizards.
| 473 |
Killgore Trout Sun, Sep 20, 2009 9:06:56am |
re: #470 Gang of One
He was around yesterday morning.
| 474 |
Pianobuff Sun, Sep 20, 2009 9:07:28am |
re: #472 Killgore Trout
I couldn't venture a guess but we will lose a lot of our more partisan lizards.
I'd probably have to agree with you on that.
| 475 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Sep 20, 2009 9:07:31am |
re: #470 Gang of One
Yeah, where is Walter L.? Have not seen him in some time. IIRC, a few weeks back he was in heavy disagreement with Charles about the howlers at the town halls. Did he flounce, get banned or what?
Was active here yesterday
| 476 |
turn Sun, Sep 20, 2009 9:07:42am |
re: #470 Gang of One
Yeah, where is Walter L.? Have not seen him in some time. IIRC, a few weeks back he was in heavy disagreement with Charles about the howlers at the town halls. Did he flounce, get banned or what?
Not sure, a lot of lizards might be bailing, me no plans yet. boarding, "see" ya all in Rehoboth
| 477 |
JamesTKirk Sun, Sep 20, 2009 9:07:48am |
re: #470 Gang of One
Yeah, where is Walter L.? ... Did he flounce, get banned or what?
Is it bad that we immediately leap to that concern?
| 478 |
avanti Sun, Sep 20, 2009 9:07:52am |
re: #462 Killgore Trout
Agreed. Although I'm a classical liberal and not a lefty I've been other side of many issues from many lizards over the years but the overall environment was fair and educational. The environment still is and I hope that our conservative lizards stick around.
The reason it occurred to me, other than the flounces, was the handicapping of the next Lizard flounce on 2.0. When I see Mandy mentioned for example it gets my attention. Mandy and I don't often agree politically, but I like her personally, and love the insights she gives me to conservative opinions that would not normally reside in my blue state brain. More than once, Lizards like Mandy have made some points that poked some holes in my blue balloon, and that's a good thing IMHO.
| 479 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Sep 20, 2009 9:08:47am |
re: #478 avanti
Those guys are betting on which one of jumps? Geeze.
| 480 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Sep 20, 2009 9:09:47am |
re: #479 Dark_Falcon
Those guys are betting on which one of us jumps? Geeze.
| 481 |
JamesTKirk Sun, Sep 20, 2009 9:10:49am |
| 482 |
Oh no...Sand People! Sun, Sep 20, 2009 9:12:37am |
Just watched "The King of Kong". Highly recommended. Unbelievable that a documentary on Video Games and high scores could have so much drama and intensity. Great movie.
| 483 |
lurking faith Sun, Sep 20, 2009 9:13:20am |
re: #443 avanti
You know, I always thought the forum was moderate, and that so many of the commenters were conservative because there were so few places where a conservative could have a sane discussion.
I'm quite a ways to the "right" of Charles on many issues, but I'm not leaving this forum. I came for the honest debate. I'm not leaving just because the honest debate has turned up things I really wish weren't there.
And I really, really hate bigotry.
| 484 |
Cato the Elder Sun, Sep 20, 2009 9:13:33am |
re: #481 JamesTKirk
Jumps, or gets pushed?
Wha? No one gets pushed here.
Pushed around, maybe, but not pushed.
| 485 |
Pianobuff Sun, Sep 20, 2009 9:14:38am |
re: #482 Oh no...Sand People!
Just watched "The King of Kong". Highly recommended. Unbelievable that a documentary on Video Games and high scores could have so much drama and intensity. Great movie.
I saw that. It was really fascinating in a weird way. I thought they could have also named it "Get a Life". I had a strangely voyeuristic experience witnessing their obsessions.
Did you experience anything similar?
| 487 |
Gang of One Sun, Sep 20, 2009 9:15:03am |
| 488 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Sep 20, 2009 9:15:08am |
re: #466 Pianobuff
re: #472 Killgore Trout
I've had my disagreements with Charles at times. I beleive as long as I'm not confrontational and/ or mean spirited and provide honesty to support my view Charles seems more than willing to allow opposing views. I wouldn't want to see any Lizard banned UNLESS they personnal;ly and without justification attack another poster or post something viley racist, homophobic or mysoginist
| 489 |
Pianobuff Sun, Sep 20, 2009 9:17:27am |
re: #488 sattv4u2
re: #472 Killgore Trout
I've had my disagreements with Charles at times. I beleive as long as I'm not confrontational and/ or mean spirited and provide honesty to support my view Charles seems more than willing to allow opposing views. I wouldn't want to see any Lizard banned UNLESS they personnal;ly and without justification attack another poster or post something viley racist, homophobic or mysoginist
It's my opinion that there is a feeling of fatigue for some of the posters. It's a little difficult to discuss in a "prove it" kind of way, because we're talking about feelings, not necessarily facts.
| 490 |
Guanxi88 Sun, Sep 20, 2009 9:17:28am |
re: #488 sattv4u2
Same here. The Chief has down-dinged me a coupla times for being "cute" and speaking ironically, disavowing with my words the very meaning they were conveying, but he's damned sight more tolerant of it than my better half is. She hates that about me, in that caring, concerned manner that spouses have.
| 491 |
Kronocide Sun, Sep 20, 2009 9:17:32am |
The Great Conservative Cleansing of 2009. The Year of New Beginnings, or, the Beginning of The End?
The great irony is that if all the crazy sign wavers and kooks really think Obama the evil they make him to be ya'd think they'd do what it takes to work together to defeat him at the polls by crafting sound messages and alternatives.
Instead, they're doubling down on the crazy and helping to ensure continuation of his tenure.
| 492 |
reine.de.tout Sun, Sep 20, 2009 9:17:38am |
re: #443 avanti
When I first became a lizard last year, it was a tough place for a lefty to try and provide a counter argument. Even trying to defend against some pretty far out partisan attacks would result in a dog pile. KT was always being attacked about the tea parties, and any pro Obama post was attacked. With all of that, LGF was not a echo chamber, all opinions were heard, and the discussions, while heated, gave us opinions from all parts of the spectrum.
The last thing I want to see, is Lizards of any stripe bailing out because they perceive the forum is now "moderate", or "pro Obama". Just because most Lizards are trying to be intellectually honest about the direction the right is headed, does not mean the left is not without problems of it's own or that this forum would not call them out.
Basically, I want the right to call out the left when it screws up, and we need conservatives to stay here and do that, not leave to find yet another echo chamber elsewhere.
Avanti - I agree with you.
I will admit there have been plenty of times here I've had to grit my teeth. It isn't that I have any issues with right-idiocy being pointed out; it's that it is so very painful for me to watch, and I just have a hard time jumping in and adding to it, it seems disloyal somehow. But I am grateful for the information, nonetheless, and especially to Killgore's constant "tea party" revelations.
| 493 |
Gang of One Sun, Sep 20, 2009 9:17:57am |
re: #477 JamesTKirk
Is it bad that we immediately leap to that concern?
I suppose so ... I had not seen any of his posts, probably due to the fact that I read threads he was not on.
| 494 |
reine.de.tout Sun, Sep 20, 2009 9:18:19am |
re: #483 lurking faith
You know, I always thought the forum was moderate, and that so many of the commenters were conservative because there were so few places where a conservative could have a sane discussion.
I'm quite a ways to the "right" of Charles on many issues, but I'm not leaving this forum. I came for the honest debate. I'm not leaving just because the honest debate has turned up things I really wish weren't there.
And I really, really hate bigotry.
Very well stated, and I agree with you 100%
| 495 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Sep 20, 2009 9:18:21am |
re: #486 laZardo
Someone in this thread...is a FLOUNCER.
/DUN DUN DUNNN
It's Colonel Mustard in the study with the revolver!
| 496 |
Oh no...Sand People! Sun, Sep 20, 2009 9:18:45am |
re: #485 Pianobuff
I saw that. It was really fascinating in a weird way. I thought they could have also named it "Get a Life". I had a strangely voyeuristic experience witnessing their obsessions.
Did you experience anything similar?
All throughout I would get random 'pinch myself' moments as in... "what the heck am I watching..." Then I would be like..."how is it that I like this...but I do"... It's really bizarre yet almost unexplainable. I see what you mean.
And this is coming from a video game junkie also... heh. (Guess I'm having a 'pot meet kettle' moment...)
| 497 |
avanti Sun, Sep 20, 2009 9:18:50am |
re: #479 Dark_Falcon
Those guys are betting on which one of jumps? Geeze.
Yep, and they have predicted correctly in one or two cases. You are not on the list BTW, you've gone over to the Dark side in more ways than just your nick according to the stalkers. :)
| 498 |
JamesTKirk Sun, Sep 20, 2009 9:19:16am |
re: #495 sattv4u2
It's Colonel Mustard in the study with the revolver!
Goshdarnit, I thought it was Professor Plum in the lounge with a rope.
| 499 |
Danny Sun, Sep 20, 2009 9:19:27am |
re: #497 avanti
Yep, and they have predicted correctly in one or two cases.
I bet they had inside information.
| 500 |
Guanxi88 Sun, Sep 20, 2009 9:19:46am |
re: #498 JamesTKirk
Goshdarnit, I thought it was Professor Plum in the lounge with a rope.
Yer both wrong - Lady Scarlet, in the Library, with a lead pipe.
| 502 |
Pianobuff Sun, Sep 20, 2009 9:20:31am |
re: #496 Oh no...Sand People!
All throughout I would get random 'pinch myself' moments as in... "what the heck am I watching..." Then I would be like..."how is it that I like this...but I do"... It's really bizarre yet almost unexplainable. I see what you mean.
And this is coming from a video game junkie also... heh. (Guess I'm having a 'pot meet kettle' moment...)
Yup - it was just inconceivable to me that people could be so single-minded in their pursuit of being famous among such a small crowd.
| 503 |
Cato the Elder Sun, Sep 20, 2009 9:20:47am |
re: #485 Pianobuff
I saw that. It was really fascinating in a weird way. I thought they could have also named it "Get a Life". I had a strangely voyeuristic experience witnessing their obsessions.
Did you experience anything similar?
Since even an old fart like me has experienced the video-gaming obsession (when I discovered "Doom" I sometimes stayed up so late and was so tired and whacked that I'd actually see jumpy replays of the action behind closed eyelids), it sounds like I'd enjoy that movie.
| 504 |
JamesTKirk Sun, Sep 20, 2009 9:20:48am |
| 505 |
lurking faith Sun, Sep 20, 2009 9:21:26am |
re: #504 JamesTKirk
How did I know you were going to say that?
| 507 |
Killgore Trout Sun, Sep 20, 2009 9:22:08am |
Oops...
Belatedly, Egypt Spots Flaws in Wiping Out Pigs
When the government killed all the pigs in Egypt this spring — in what public health experts said was a misguided attempt to combat swine flu — it was warned the city would be overwhelmed with trash.The pigs used to eat tons of organic waste. Now the pigs are gone and the rotting food piles up on the streets of middle-class neighborhoods like Heliopolis and in the poor streets of communities like Imbaba.
| 508 |
Pianobuff Sun, Sep 20, 2009 9:22:46am |
re: #503 Cato the Elder
Since even an old fart like me has experienced the video-gaming obsession (when I discovered "Doom" I sometimes stayed up so late and was so tired and whacked that I'd actually see jumpy replays of the action behind closed eyelids), it sounds like I'd enjoy that movie.
You can probably relate to some of this, then. But when you witness the melodrama and intrigue in this documentary, it's truly like stepping into Bizzaroland without a map.
| 509 |
JamesTKirk Sun, Sep 20, 2009 9:22:50am |
re: #497 avanti
Yep, and they have predicted correctly in one or two cases. You are not on the list BTW, you've gone over to the Dark side in more ways than just your nick according to the stalkers. :)
Irish Rose told me that I'd been mentioned there, but didn't give me the context.
| 510 |
Oh no...Sand People! Sun, Sep 20, 2009 9:23:23am |
re: #503 Cato the Elder
Since even an old fart like me has experienced the video-gaming obsession (when I discovered "Doom" I sometimes stayed up so late and was so tired and whacked that I'd actually see jumpy replays of the action behind closed eyelids), it sounds like I'd enjoy that movie.
I have rarely witnessed people I want to put the beat down to on sight, but the arch nemesis in this true documentary made me want to send hate mail afterwords. The dude just oozed sleazebag.
| 511 |
JamesTKirk Sun, Sep 20, 2009 9:23:38am |
re: #507 Killgore Trout
The Law of Unintended Consequences strikes again.
| 512 |
jaunte Sun, Sep 20, 2009 9:23:46am |
re: #507 Killgore Trout
That's not good. Now the insects are going to pick up the slack. Fly city.
| 513 |
MandyManners Sun, Sep 20, 2009 9:24:12am |
re: #478 avanti
The reason it occurred to me, other than the flounces, was the handicapping of the next Lizard flounce on 2.0. When I see Mandy mentioned for example it gets my attention. Mandy and I don't often agree politically, but I like her personally, and love the insights she gives me to conservative opinions that would not normally reside in my blue state brain. More than once, Lizards like Mandy have made some points that poked some holes in my blue balloon, and that's a good thing IMHO.
WTF?
| 514 |
lurking faith Sun, Sep 20, 2009 9:24:32am |
re: #512 jaunte
That's not good. Now the insects are going to pick up the slack. Fly city.
And rats, perhaps.
*shudder*
| 515 |
JamesTKirk Sun, Sep 20, 2009 9:24:55am |
re: #512 jaunte
That's not good. Now the insects are going to pick up the slack. Fly city.
Insects and rats.
Fortunately, it's not like they ever carry diseases.
/obviously
//again, the Law of Unintended Consequences
| 516 |
Danny Sun, Sep 20, 2009 9:24:58am |
| 517 |
Guanxi88 Sun, Sep 20, 2009 9:25:02am |
re: #512 jaunte
That's not good. Now the insects are going to pick up the slack. Fly city.
Don't worry, though, all the flies are bound to lead to an increase in the frog population, which will be consumed by the snakes, who will be eaten by the birds, who will feed the cats, who chase the rats, in the house that Jack built.
| 518 |
JamesTKirk Sun, Sep 20, 2009 9:25:40am |
| 519 |
Killgore Trout Sun, Sep 20, 2009 9:25:49am |
re: #512 jaunte
That's not good. Now the insects are going to pick up the slack. Fly city.
Rats are going to be a big problem too.
| 520 |
jaunte Sun, Sep 20, 2009 9:26:00am |
re: #517 Guanxi88
I think they had that frog plague once before.
| 521 |
Guanxi88 Sun, Sep 20, 2009 9:26:06am |
re: #515 JamesTKirk
Insects and rats.
Fortunately, it's not like they ever carry diseases.
/obviously
//again, the Law of Unintended Consequences
Yep, obviated the risk of H1N1; any thoughts on what we ought to do about this distressing outbreak of plague and typhus?
| 522 |
Guanxi88 Sun, Sep 20, 2009 9:26:33am |
re: #520 jaunte
I think they had that frog plague once before.
Give that man a matzo! Someone caught the riff within a riff.
| 523 |
MandyManners Sun, Sep 20, 2009 9:26:36am |
| 524 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Sep 20, 2009 9:26:42am |
re: #497 avanti
Yep, and they have predicted correctly in one or two cases. You are not on the list BTW, you've gone over to the Dark side in more ways than just your nick according to the stalkers. :)
That I do know. Based on my standing with iceweasel and Jimmah when they've confronted irrational butthurt late in a few threads, I've been dubbed one of Charles' attack dogs. I don't agree. Like lurking faith, I post here for the honest debate. When someone starts turning that debate into a slime war, I step in.
| 525 |
lurking faith Sun, Sep 20, 2009 9:26:43am |
re: #513 MandyManners
WTF?
There's no point in asking that question when it comes to that crowd. They're not exactly the poster children for a good grip on reality.
| 527 |
Guanxi88 Sun, Sep 20, 2009 9:27:15am |
re: #525 lurking faith
There's no point in asking that question when it comes to that crowd. They're not exactly the poster children for a good grip on reality.
Neither am I, for that matter, but at least I've got the good taste to keep most of my ravings to myself.
| 529 |
JamesTKirk Sun, Sep 20, 2009 9:28:03am |
re: #517 Guanxi88
Don't worry, though, all the flies are bound to lead to an increase in the frog population, which will be consumed by the snakes, who will be eaten by the birds, who will feed the cats, who chase the rats, in the house that Jack built.
Actually, I think by historical precedent Egypt will be hit by bloody rivers, frogs, gnats, flies, pestilence, incurable boils, hail, locusts, darkness, and death of the firstborn... Most likely worse than whatever they thought the Swine Flu would do.
/oh, and also cats and dogs living together
| 530 |
avanti Sun, Sep 20, 2009 9:28:08am |
re: #492 reine.de.tout
Avanti - I agree with you.
I will admit there have been plenty of times here I've had to grit my teeth. It isn't that I have any issues with right-idiocy being pointed out; it's that it is so very painful for me to watch, and I just have a hard time jumping in and adding to it, it seems disloyal somehow. But I am grateful for the information, nonetheless, and especially to Killgore's constant "tea party" revelations.
Hey, I get that, I see some of it on the left. i.e., although I think some of the stuff about Acorn is over the top, I'm so embarrassed by what I've seen, that I'm not in the mood to attempt a defense of the organization. They do some good work, perhaps discussing the corruption and mismanagement of ACORN will prompt a top to bottom house cleaning.
I feel the same way about the right. the basic concept of conservatism is sound, especially as a counter to going too liberal. Anything that weakens the right, is bad news for the country in the long run, since we need a balanced scale.
| 531 |
lurking faith Sun, Sep 20, 2009 9:29:11am |
| 532 |
JamesTKirk Sun, Sep 20, 2009 9:29:14am |
| 534 |
JanglerNPL Sun, Sep 20, 2009 9:30:32am |
re: #531 lurking faith
Definition--straight line (n.): the shortest distance between two puns.
| 535 |
JamesTKirk Sun, Sep 20, 2009 9:30:43am |
re: #531 lurking faith
There's a straight line if I ever saw one.
I had to ask someone last week to stop feeding me so many straight lines. He wasn't intending to (I don't think) but several of his posts were easily interpreted in more than one way.
| 536 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Sep 20, 2009 9:32:33am |
re: #515 JamesTKirk
Insects and rats.
Fortunately, it's not like they ever carry diseases.
/obviously
//again, the Law of Unintended Consequences
Well, in this case the LUC application shows the consequences of top-down decision making and bigotry. President Obama should pay attention to the part about top-down decisions. The bigotry issue is not really in play here, since unlike Mubarak, he doesn't make decisions based of religious prejudice.
| 537 |
Ojoe Sun, Sep 20, 2009 9:33:20am |
re: #530 avanti
Well yes the fringe wackos on whatever side are bad for the country, I would like to see them cut adrift in the ruddlerless hulks of the two major parties, to wash up on some forsaken shore somewhere far away.
We need a center party.
| 538 |
avanti Sun, Sep 20, 2009 9:33:27am |
re: #526 BigPapa
Oh noes shes about to blow!!! Step away from the keyboard Mandy!
Mandy, don't go over unless they offer you a big ass signing package, and give us a chance for a counter offer.:)
| 539 |
lurking faith Sun, Sep 20, 2009 9:34:28am |
re: #535 JamesTKirk
I had to ask someone last week to stop feeding me so many straight lines. He wasn't intending to (I don't think) but several of his posts were easily interpreted in more than one way.
I was the designated straight line generator in college. On purpose.
One of my friends used to take pity on me and explain all the resulting puns, which made the whole thing much, much more amusing for me.
| 541 |
MandyManners Sun, Sep 20, 2009 9:36:31am |
Those little fucking wienes don't know me at all. Why I let that get sand in my shorts is beyond me.
| 542 |
Killgore Trout Sun, Sep 20, 2009 9:37:24am |
They're finally making arrests...
FBI Arrests Three Men in Terror Plot that Targeted New York
The FBI arrested three men overnight on charges they lied to federal agents during an investigation of a terror plot against New York City that authorities say was "the real deal."
Agents in Denver arrested Najibullah Zazi, a 24-year old airport shuttle driver, who authorities say appears to be the ringleader of the alleged plot. Also charged with lying to the FBI was Zazi's father, Mohammed Zazi.
| 543 |
Locker Sun, Sep 20, 2009 9:37:29am |
Morning ya'll. How's things out there in purple land?
| 544 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Sep 20, 2009 9:37:51am |
re: #541 MandyManners
Those little fucking wienes don't know me at all. Why I let that get sand in my shorts is beyond me.
CURE
stop wearing shorts!!!
| 545 |
lurking faith Sun, Sep 20, 2009 9:37:57am |
| 546 |
MandyManners Sun, Sep 20, 2009 9:38:02am |
re: #538 avanti
Mandy, don't go over unless they offer you a big ass signing package, and give us a chance for a counter offer.:)
Considering one of the founders, there is no way in hell I'd ever post there. Heck, I don't even look at it. Oh, good gravy.
| 547 |
Danny Sun, Sep 20, 2009 9:38:26am |
| 548 |
Locker Sun, Sep 20, 2009 9:38:50am |
re: #538 avanti
Mandy, don't go over unless they offer you a big ass signing package, and give us a chance for a counter offer.:)
I'd hold out for a sneaker deal.
| 549 |
JamesTKirk Sun, Sep 20, 2009 9:38:58am |
re: #538 avanti
Mandy, don't go over unless they offer you a big ass signing package, and give us a chance for a counter offer.:)
Which will, of course, be in bed.
| 550 |
Cato the Elder Sun, Sep 20, 2009 9:39:03am |
re: #546 MandyManners
Considering one of the founders, there is no way in hell I'd ever post there. Heck, I don't even look at it. Oh, good gravy.
I don't, either. Screw 'em. Especially IF.
| 551 |
avanti Sun, Sep 20, 2009 9:39:34am |
re: #524 Dark_Falcon
That I do know. Based on my standing with iceweasel and Jimmah when they've confronted irrational butthurt late in a few threads, I've been dubbed one of Charles' attack dogs. I don't agree. Like lurking faith, I post here for the honest debate. When someone starts turning that debate into a slime war, I step in.
Dark, I don't know why, but you almost single handedly pulled me out of my negative Karma pit a few months back and I was afraid to thank you publicly. I feel safe doing it now, so thanks ! I assume you did it out of a sense of fairness, and I admire that.
| 552 |
lurking faith Sun, Sep 20, 2009 9:40:17am |
| 553 |
Walter L. Newton Sun, Sep 20, 2009 9:40:32am |
re: #551 avanti
Dark, I don't know why, but you almost single handedly pulled me out of my negative Karma pit a few months back and I was afraid to thank you publicly. I feel safe doing it now, so thanks ! I assume you did it out of a sense of fairness, and I admire that.
I'm back :)
| 554 |
MandyManners Sun, Sep 20, 2009 9:41:58am |
| 555 |
Locker Sun, Sep 20, 2009 9:42:08am |
re: #553 Walter L. Newton
I'm back :)
That's not a conure in your profile picture is it? Smart but man... LOUD!
| 557 |
Cato the Elder Sun, Sep 20, 2009 9:42:25am |
| 559 |
zuckerlilly Sun, Sep 20, 2009 9:43:32am |
re: #80 austin_blue
As for rationing, it's a boogeyman. The rest of the Western World has some form of government controlled health care. In Switzerland and Germany, that means very highly regulated private insurance where fee for service is brutally regulated and outcome based health care is the rule. In France, England, the low countries, and Scandanavia, it means a government controlled program that closely monitors the metrics and costs. Do they have problems? Sure. But the bottom line is that all of these countries deliver better health care for all of their citizens (that would be the "General Welfare" mentioned in the preamble to the Constitution) than the disaster we we have in this country for our citizens.Do we have the finest health care system in the world? Absolutely!
So long as you don't get really sick.
You don’t have the slightest reason about European health care. You mention Germany, so let me tell you something:
If a German physician e.g. an internist, has 3 patients with HIV his budget is eaten up, because the budgets of German physicians are limited. Now comes a fourth HIV patient and wants a treatment. What to do? The physician can either say “look for another physician” and refuse to treat her/him or she/he can pay her/his treatment out of his own pocket (!) including drugs from the pharmacy. Therefore thousands of physicians in Germany decided either to retire or to quit their medical praxis in Germany. They are now working in their profession as physicians (most of them medical specialists) as “day laborers” in Britain, the Netherlands or Sweden. Or the emigrated to the Switzerland where they work in a private medical praxis.
Ah, Sweden: Sweden has an extreme shortage of physicians because the government can´t pay for more physicians. More than 300.000 patients are waiting more than 6 months for their surgery, more than 100.000 of them for a vital one. Every Swedish who can afford it has a second private health insurance and goes as a private patient to Germany to get a proper treatment. Similar in GB.
You think those two countries are exceptions? Look to Finland: in Finland you have first to call a nurse who decides at the phone (!) if you are “ill enough” to get a fixed date with the nurse (!). Then at the fixed date the nurse will decide if you see a physician or if she/he (the nurse) can solve your health problems. So, to cut costs the responsibility for your health shifted from the physicians to the nurses.
Never become ill in Italy you want belief what you’ll see there in state funded hospitals. And I could go on and on and on.
State based health care is one of the most important issues in Europe hindering job creation and entrepreneurship.
| 560 |
Walter L. Newton Sun, Sep 20, 2009 9:43:42am |
re: #555 Locker
That's not a conure in your profile picture is it? Smart but man... LOUD!
It's a red-lored Amazon, and yes, loud.
| 561 |
lurking faith Sun, Sep 20, 2009 9:44:00am |
The critters want food and attention, so I'd better go. Later!
| 562 |
sngnsgt Sun, Sep 20, 2009 9:44:06am |
I live in Vegas and have been too busy to keep up with this football season. Any big upsets coming that I should bet on after breakfast?
| 563 |
avanti Sun, Sep 20, 2009 9:44:54am |
re: #470 Gang of One
Yeah, where is Walter L.? Have not seen him in some time. IIRC, a few weeks back he was in heavy disagreement with Charles about the howlers at the town halls. Did he flounce, get banned or what?
Walter is one tough cookie, I don't see him quitting over a minor dust up.
| 564 |
JamesTKirk Sun, Sep 20, 2009 9:45:03am |
Is that a conure in your profile picture, or are you just happy to see me?
| 565 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Sep 20, 2009 9:47:09am |
re: #551 avanti
Dark, I don't know why, but you almost single handedly pulled me out of my negative Karma pit a few months back and I was afraid to thank you publicly. I feel safe doing it now, so thanks ! I assume you did it out of a sense of fairness, and I admire that.
Not just fairness, though that played a cardinal role. You have useful things to say and I wanted to hear them. The "Stone the Unfaithful Monkey" theme gets old after awhile. And conservatives need principled liberals to debate if we are to make effective cases.
| 566 |
avanti Sun, Sep 20, 2009 9:47:12am |
| 567 |
Gang of One Sun, Sep 20, 2009 9:47:17am |
re: #563 avanti
Walter is one tough cookie, I don't see him quitting over a minor dust up.
True, dat.
Hey, Walt.
| 568 |
Locker Sun, Sep 20, 2009 9:47:45am |
re: #559 zuckerlilly
You think those two countries are exceptions? Look to Finland: in Finland you have first to call a nurse who decides at the phone (!) if you are “ill enough” to get a fixed date with the nurse (!). Then at the fixed date the nurse will decide if you see a physician or if she/he (the nurse) can solve your health problems. So, to cut costs the responsibility for your health shifted from the physicians to the nurses.
This is EXACTLY how my HMO (Kaiser) does things here in California. Word for word, step by step.
| 569 |
Walter L. Newton Sun, Sep 20, 2009 9:47:56am |
re: #470 Gang of One
Yeah, where is Walter L.? Have not seen him in some time. IIRC, a few weeks back he was in heavy disagreement with Charles about the howlers at the town halls. Did he flounce, get banned or what?
I'm here. I had a funeral to go to in Hampton Bays last week. Was there all week. I tried to build some wind farms while I was there. NIMBY was my answer.
| 570 |
avanti Sun, Sep 20, 2009 9:48:33am |
re: #565 Dark_Falcon
Not just fairness, though that played a cardinal role. You have useful things to say and I wanted to hear them. The "Stone the Unfaithful Monkey" theme gets old after awhile. And conservatives need principled liberals to debate if we are to make effective cases.
Is that another racist monkey comment ?/
| 571 |
Kronocide Sun, Sep 20, 2009 9:48:44am |
re: #563 avanti
Walter is one tough cookie, I don't see him quitting over a minor dust up.
I'm not a Shakespeare studier or true fan, but this concept resonates and is at the bottom of all my posts on a private/professional forum:
Do as adversaries do in law, —Strive mightily, but eat and drink as friends.
William Shakespeare, The Taming of the Shrew
| 572 |
Locker Sun, Sep 20, 2009 9:49:25am |
re: #560 Walter L. Newton
It's a red-lored Amazon, and yes, loud.
I've always had my heart set on a Rose Breasted Cockatoo, even though they are just a nuisance bird in Australia. Wife isn't having that though. How old is your buddy?
| 573 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Sep 20, 2009 9:49:58am |
I can't believe I'm saying this, but Frank Rich actually had a good column yesterday. The Butcher of Broadway's take on Glen Beck:
| 574 |
Walter L. Newton Sun, Sep 20, 2009 9:50:01am |
re: #571 BigPapa
I'm not a Shakespeare studier or true fan, but this concept resonates and is at the bottom of all my posts on a private/professional forum:
Do as adversaries do in law, —Strive mightily, but eat and drink as friends.
William Shakespeare, The Taming of the Shrew
I follow that a little differently...
Do as adversaries do in law, —Strive mightily, but eat and drink your friends and spit them out to win.
///
| 575 |
Cato the Elder Sun, Sep 20, 2009 9:50:48am |
re: #559 zuckerlilly
I thought you were in Austria?
Anyway, my experience is oldoldold, but when I lived in Germany it was nothing like what you describe here. I'm going to clip your description, run it by my German FB friends, and get back to you.
LGF, das Blog, das deinen Arsch auf Fakten prüft!
| 576 |
Locker Sun, Sep 20, 2009 9:51:45am |
re: #573 Dark_Falcon
I can't believe I'm saying this, but Frank Rich actually had a good column yesterday. The Butcher of Broadway's take on Glen Beck:
I'm sure you won't be surprised but I like Frank Rich's stuff on a very regular basis. Thanks for the link.
| 577 |
avanti Sun, Sep 20, 2009 9:52:01am |
re: #548 Locker
I'd hold out for a sneaker deal.
A pair right sneakers for the stalkers in the box. :)
| 578 |
jaunte Sun, Sep 20, 2009 9:55:45am |
re: #573 Dark_Falcon
I can't believe I'm saying this, but Frank Rich actually had a good column yesterday. The Butcher of Broadway's take on Glen Beck:
This is a great description of of the unfocused nature of the tea partiers' complaint:
Americans “know that SOMETHING JUST DOESN’T FEEL RIGHT,” he writes, “but they don’t know how to describe it or, more importantly, how to stop it.” This is right-wing populism in the classic American style, as inchoate and paranoid as that hawked by Father Coughlin during the Great Depression and George Wallace in the late 1960s.
| 579 |
swamprat Sun, Sep 20, 2009 9:56:01am |
re: #571 BigPapa
I'm not a Shakespeare studier or true fan, but this concept resonates and is at the bottom of all my posts on a private/professional forum:
Do as adversaries do in law, —Strive mightily, but eat and drink as friends.
William Shakespeare, The Taming of the Shrew
As steel sharpens steel, so one man sharpens another. Proverbs 27:17.
| 580 |
zuckerlilly Sun, Sep 20, 2009 9:58:26am |
re: #575 Cato the Elder
I thought you were in Austria?
Anyway, my experience is oldoldold, but when I lived in Germany it was nothing like what you describe here. I'm going to clip your description, run it by my German FB friends, and get back to you.
LGF, das Blog, das deinen Arsch auf Fakten prüft!
Currently I'm in Israel ;-) but yes I'm living in Austria at the German border (Baveria). Health care in Germany has changed dramaticly because they can't pay any longer for it. In Austria the public health care insurance of Vienna is simply bankcrupt (we have a different system than Germany).
| 581 |
laZardo Sun, Sep 20, 2009 9:58:57am |
re: #573 Dark_Falcon
What unsettles me is that the America I moved out of in 1993 will be unrecognizable if/when I move back sometime in the next couple of years...
| 582 |
Gang of One Sun, Sep 20, 2009 9:59:56am |
re: #569 Walter L. Newton
I'm here. I had a funeral to go to in Hampton Bays last week. Was there all week. I tried to build some wind farms while I was there. NIMBY was my answer.
Glad you are not gone, Walt. Not always I2I with you, but you're one of the good guys, sir. I have learned from you.
| 583 |
JamesTKirk Sun, Sep 20, 2009 9:59:58am |
re: #571 BigPapa
I'm not a Shakespeare studier or true fan, but this concept resonates and is at the bottom of all my posts on a private/professional forum:
Do as adversaries do in law, —Strive mightily, but eat and drink as friends.
William Shakespeare, The Taming of the Shrew
Most of my IRL friends are to the right of me (sometimes considerably) or to the left of me (ditto), but there's always something we can agree on... So we usually avoid those other topics where we disagree.
| 584 |
Kronocide Sun, Sep 20, 2009 10:00:50am |
re: #579 swamprat
As steel sharpens steel, so one man sharpens another. Proverbs 27:17.
Oh that's very good, never heard that one. Lately it seems to work the other way: man dumbing down man.
| 585 |
JamesTKirk Sun, Sep 20, 2009 10:01:29am |
And there's a new thread, which is my excuse to bail. If I start reading/discussing another thread, I'll be here for another hour or more, and I've got things to do.
Enjoy your Sunday. In bed, if you can manage it.
| 586 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Sep 20, 2009 10:02:06am |
re: #581 laZardo
What unsettles me is that the America I moved out of in 1993 will be unrecognizable if/when I move back sometime in the next couple of years...
I worry about that as well. The level of paranoia in America right now has reached deadly levels. I am sore afraid of what might result from it. And should there be blood, Glen Beck will have much of it on his hands for having helped sow the paranoia.
| 587 |
Cato the Elder Sun, Sep 20, 2009 10:02:07am |
re: #559 zuckerlilly
If a German physician e.g. an internist, has 3 patients with HIV his budget is eaten up, because the budgets of German physicians are limited. Now comes a fourth HIV patient and wants a treatment. What to do? The physician can either say “look for another physician” and refuse to treat her/him or she/he can pay her/his treatment out of his own pocket (!) including drugs from the pharmacy.
This is where I'm going to call bullshit without waiting to hear back from my German friends.
You're saying a German doctor gets a budget from which s/he pays for the treatment of patients? So there's, say, 5,000 euros for HIV patients, and when that's used up, s/he can't see another patient with HIV? Bullenscheiße. Unless the system has changed so much that I don't recognize it anymore, German patients are covered by insurance companies, either "öffentlich" (public) or private. Your doctor is reimbursed by them, per patient, not per disease.
So I'm calling you out. Fact-checking your ass. Prove your statement.
| 588 |
Gang of One Sun, Sep 20, 2009 10:02:46am |
re: #575 Cato the Elder
LGF, das Blog, das deinen Arsch auf Fakten prüft!
LGF the blog where your ass is fact checked ... did I get that right?
| 589 |
Gang of One Sun, Sep 20, 2009 10:04:44am |
re: #579 swamprat
As steel sharpens steel, so one man sharpens another. Proverbs 27:17.
So, that's the origin! We use that on the training mat at Kung Fu to motivate each other.
/Cool
| 590 |
Cato the Elder Sun, Sep 20, 2009 10:05:47am |
re: #580 zuckerlilly
Currently I'm in Israel ;-) but yes I'm living in Austria at the German border (Baveria). Health care in Germany has changed dramaticly because they can't pay any longer for it. In Austria the public health care insurance of Vienna is simply bankcrupt (we have a different system than Germany).
I'm glad you're in Israel - it's a great time to be there! ;^)
See my #587. The financial difficulties in the German health-care system are well known. You stated something that sounds preposterous to me - that doctors get a "budget". If anything, isn't the care rationed by patient? It's patients who are covered by the Versicherungen, not doctors.
Please explain.
| 591 |
swamprat Sun, Sep 20, 2009 10:09:48am |
Do as adversaries do in law, —Strive mightily, but eat and drink as friends.
William Shakespeare, The Taming of the Shrew
| 592 |
zuckerlilly Sun, Sep 20, 2009 10:16:36am |
re: #587 Cato the Elder
Das ist unterstes sprachliches und intellektuelles Niveau und so diskutiere ich nicht mit Leuten, die keine Ahnung vom Gesundheitssystem in D haben. Übringes ist das Budget nicht pro Fall limitiert, sondern das Gesamtbudget des Arztes ist limitiert. Wer also mehrere chronisch Kranke in seiner Praxis hat und damit das Budget überschreitet, das ihr/ihm zugebilligt wurde, zahlt aus eigener Tasche.
Ihre Erfahrungen, die Sie vielleicht vor Jahrzehnten gemacht haben, sind überholt.
| 593 |
debutaunt Sun, Sep 20, 2009 10:22:02am |
| 594 |
Cato the Elder Sun, Sep 20, 2009 10:27:07am |
re: #592 zuckerlilly
Das ist unterstes sprachliches und intellektuelles Niveau und so diskutiere ich nicht mit Leuten, die keine Ahnung vom Gesundheitssystem in D haben. Übringes ist das Budget nicht pro Fall limitiert, sondern das Gesamtbudget des Arztes ist limitiert. Wer also mehrere chronisch Kranke in seiner Praxis hat und damit das Budget überschreitet, das ihr/ihm zugebilligt wurde, zahlt aus eigener Tasche.
Ihre Erfahrungen, die Sie vielleicht vor Jahrzehnten gemacht haben, sind überholt.
Ich frage gerade deswegen, weil ich nicht mehr eine Ahnung habe. Wenn Sie gekränkt tun, weil ein flapsiges Wort gefallen ist, so halte ich das für einen Vorwand, Ihre Behauptungen nicht zu verteidigen. Und ich glaube Ihnen nicht. Diesen Wortwechsel werde ich nach dem Brunch für alle hier Lesenden übersetzen, und die Antworten meiner in Deutschland (nicht an der "Baverian" Grenze) lebenden Freunde ebenso.
Ich halte Sie für feige und unehrlich, mit Behauptungen, die Sie nicht beweisen können/wollen. Und ich bezweifle nicht, dass Sie es aus politischen Vorurteilen machen.
Charles, and the rest: I'm going to brunch now. I'll translate Zuckerlilly's evasive and childish answer and my response for all to read when I get back. She writes in German because she can't back up her statement but doesn't want to be seen that way. And she takes offense at the word "bullshit".
I call bullshit again.
| 595 |
reine.de.tout Sun, Sep 20, 2009 10:28:31am |
re: #592 zuckerlilly
Das ist unterstes sprachliches und intellektuelles Niveau und so diskutiere ich nicht mit Leuten, die keine Ahnung vom Gesundheitssystem in D haben. Übringes ist das Budget nicht pro Fall limitiert, sondern das Gesamtbudget des Arztes ist limitiert. Wer also mehrere chronisch Kranke in seiner Praxis hat und damit das Budget überschreitet, das ihr/ihm zugebilligt wurde, zahlt aus eigener Tasche.
Ihre Erfahrungen, die Sie vielleicht vor Jahrzehnten gemacht haben, sind überholt.
In English, roughly, are you saying:
A doctor has an overall budget that is limited, and if he has several patients with chronic diseases in his practice, there is not sufficient budget to cover them, and - the patient has to pay out of pocket?
The experience recalled by Cato are out of date.
| 596 |
Cato the Elder Sun, Sep 20, 2009 10:33:42am |
re: #595 reine.de.tout
And she's saying she won't talk to someone who doesn't know about the health-care system in Germany. But that's exactly why I asked - because my experiences are admittedly out of date.
And she hides behind being upset that I said "bullshit" and "fact-check your ass".
My friends in German will clear this up. They come from all political viewpoints.
Meanwhile, I consider Zuckerlilly, who writes perfect English, a blowhard, making statements that she can't or won't back up. And writing her refusal to do so in German, so you all won't notice what's going on.
| 597 |
shimoda Sun, Sep 20, 2009 11:02:02am |
You think those two countries are exceptions? Look to Finland: in Finland you have first to call a nurse who decides at the phone (!) if you are “ill enough” to get a fixed date with the nurse (!). Then at the fixed date the nurse will decide if you see a physician or if she/he (the nurse) can solve your health problems. So, to cut costs the responsibility for your health shifted from the physicians to the nurses.
No. Not true.
| 598 |
Cato the Elder Sun, Sep 20, 2009 11:44:04am |
re: #587 Cato the Elder
re: #592 zuckerlilly
re: #594 Cato the Elder
This is what Zuckerlilly wrote in German in response to my #587 (in English). Z. is perfectly capable of excellent English, so why did she write in German? Judge for yourselves.
That is the lowest language and intellectual level and thus [?] I will not debate with people who have no clue about the health-care system in Germany. By the way, the budget is not limited per case, but rather the overall budget of the doctor is limited. Therefore, whoever has more than a few chronically ill people in his/her practice and thereby exceeds the budget that was granted to him/her, pays from his/her own pocket.
Your experiences, that you had perhaps decades ago, are outdated.
So, I said "bullshit" and "fact-check your ass" (which is what we do around here), and Zuckerlilly refuses to back up her statements, merely repeating them. Perhaps she doesn't hang out here often enough to have heard the "fact-check your ass" slogan; I hereby retract it and substitute "check your facts". Likewise with "bullshit" - let's call it nonsense.
The particular nonsense I'm challenging is her statement that if a doctor in Germany has X number of HIV patients and along comes patient X+1, the doctor can either turn away the patient or pay out of his/her (the doctor's, not the patient's, mind you) own pocket. Hence a lot of German doctors are now in Switzerland.
This seems so ridiculous on its face that I'm openly challenging Zuckerlilly to prove it. That's what the argument is about.
My reply in German, translated, reads:
That's exactly why I asked, because I no longer have a clue. If you act hurt because a sassy word was used, I consider that an excuse not to defend your statements. And I don't believe you. After brunch I shall translate this exchange for all here to read, and the answers of my friends in Germany (not on the "Baverian" border) as well. [Note: I have asked about a dozen German Facebook friends of all political persuasions to respond to Zuckerlilly's statements.]
I consider you cowardly and dishonest, with statements that you can't/won't prove. And I have no doubt that you're doing it for political reasons.
I hereby call you out, Zuckerlilly: Prove that a doctor in Germany can't take more than X HIV patients unless s/he pays out of pocket for it, or shut up. If you do I'll publicly apologize and admit I'm wrong. If you don't or won't, although I've always enjoyed your input here in the past, I hope you'll just disappear.
| 599 |
Cato the Elder Sun, Sep 20, 2009 11:59:42am |
re: #598 Cato the Elder
Here are two responses (unedited, of course) from Germans about Zuckerlilly's claims:
For me it sounds like a propaganda story against Obama's health care reform taken from the German health care system which is close to Obama's reform targets.
Anyway I will ask my old friend Lorenz who is in the medical job.
And:
I've never heard anything remotely like that and have doctor friends who I imagine would be talking of nothing else if that's were the way the system really worked. Doctors don't make nearly as much money here as in the States and sometimes go ins Ausland [abroad] for that reason.
As to the last claim, I have absolutely no doubt that's true.
C'mon, Zuckerlilly, give us a link or two, can't you?
I'll let you all know what Herr Doktor Lorenz says.
| 600 |
Cato the Elder Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:01:42pm |
Another:
A German woman living in the States became infected with HIV through a transfusion while in a hospital there 22 years ago. When she realized she was infected, she came back to Germany as she was worried about health coverage and what would happen to her child. Her child was born, was infected, the mother died and the child went into foster care. Today she is 21 and healthy and has had the best care possible the (high) costs of which have been covered.
Anyone else beginning to think that Zuckerlilly is a Propagandistin?
| 601 |
lurking faith Sun, Sep 20, 2009 12:51:54pm |
re: #592 zuckerlilly
So, zuckerlilly, what's the deal? You post in German and then run away? Do you have an answer? Any links? German-language links are fine; some of us can read them.
Wir warten immer noch auf eine Antwort. Weitere Information waere hilfreich.
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Khal Wimpo (free internal organs upon request!)
3 days ago
Views: 232 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 3
Best of April 2024 Nothing new here but these are a look back at the a few good images from the past month. Despite the weather, I was quite pleased with several of them. These were taken with older lenses (made from the ...
William Lewis
6 days ago
Views: 231 • Comments: 2 • Rating: 5
Gateway Pundit, Sued by Election Workers, Declares BankruptcyA onetime favorite, now just pathetic figure around these parts, Jim Hoft aka SMOTI ("Stupidest Man On The Internet"), has filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy in response to the defamation lawsuits filed against him to the same election workers that ... Khal Wimpo (free internal organs upon request!)
2 weeks ago
Views: 278 • Comments: 1 • Rating: 3
The Pandemic Cost 7 Million Lives, but Talks to Prevent a Repeat Stall In late 2021, as the world reeled from the arrival of the highly contagious omicron variant of the coronavirus, representatives of almost 200 countries met - some online, some in-person in Geneva - hoping to forestall a future worldwide ...
Cheechako
3 weeks ago
Views: 1,053 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 2
Once Praised, the Settlement to Help Sickened BP Oil Spill Workers Leaves Most With Nearly Nothing When a deadly explosion destroyed BP’s Deepwater Horizon drilling rig in the Gulf of Mexico, 134 million gallons of crude erupted into the sea over the next three months — and tens of thousands of ordinary people were hired ... Cheechako
3 weeks ago
Views: 1,021 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 2
Alone in a Bathroom: The Fear and Uncertainty of a Post-Roe Medication Abortion Angel tucked two white pills into each side of her mouth, bracing herself as they began to dissolve. Her deepest fears and anxieties took over. Angel had wanted to talk to a doctor before she took the pills to ... Cheechako
4 weeks ago
Views: 1,426 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 3
They Were Desperate to Get Pregnant. Then IVF Gave Them Extra Embryos. One morning last spring, Ashley Harrolle put her 1-year-old daughter down for a nap and went to the kitchen. She pulled up her fertility clinic’s contact information. It was time to make the call. In a freezer several hundred ... Cheechako
4 weeks ago
Views: 565 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 1
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Texas County at Center of Border Fight Is Overwhelmed by Migrant Deaths EAGLE PASS, Tex. - The undertaker lighted a cigarette and held it between his latex-gloved fingers as he stood over the bloated body bag lying in the bed of his battered pickup truck. The woman had been fished out ... Cheechako
4 weeks ago
Views: 446 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 1
