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289 comments

1 albusteve  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 3:27:48pm

already a bloodbath and there is more to come...security is just up to the task it seems

2 Obdicut  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 3:37:21pm

If it's only 10 dead we were lucky.

3 Hawaii69  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 3:39:11pm

For just a second, I thought this was about a Trip-Hop concert....

4 albusteve  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 3:43:02pm

re: #3 Hawaii69

For just a second, I thought this was about a Trip-Hop concert...

ah, no...people are dying...innocent folks and the body count may be very high

5 Hawaii69  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 3:43:34pm

Islamists don't want us to pull out of Afghanistan.

No occupying force = no rallying cry.

6 Alexzander  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 3:44:21pm

OT:

Dutch approve ban on kosher and halal animal slaughter

...In a rare show of unity, the Netherlands' Muslim and Jewish communities -- about 1 million and 40,000 respectively in a total population of 16 million -- have condemned the proposed ban as a violation of their religious freedom.
7 dragonfire1981  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 3:45:15pm

So will the right wing hold this up as an example of why Obama is "soft on terrorism" ?

8 Hawaii69  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 3:45:34pm

re: #4 albusteve

ah, no...people are dying...innocent folks and the body count may be very high

When I see both words capitalized, The first thing that pops into my mnid is this:

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

9 albusteve  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 3:46:09pm

re: #5 Hawaii69

Islamists don't want us to pull out of Afghanistan.

No occupying force = no rallying cry.

yeah, the Taliban have nothing better to do...they like being killed by the boatload by the US...makes perfect sense

10 Alexzander  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 3:54:26pm

Incredible Dance Video (be patient for about 45 seconds):

11 Hawaii69  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 3:54:54pm

re: #9 albusteve

yeah, the Taliban have nothing better to do...they like being killed by the boatload by the US...makes perfect sense

I didn't say Taliban...I said "Islamists".

The entire purpose of Al Quedas 9/11 was to instigate the
occupation of Muslim countries. They kicked the hornets
nest with the singular goal of stirring up the hornets.

Occupation & conflict brings legitimacy.

12 albusteve  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 3:56:18pm

surfing, there is not much info out there yet...it appears the last bad guys are pinned on the upper floor or roof...they'll run out of ammo sooner or later then blow themselves up and cop their virgins...an old story repeated over and over...the perfect expression of Afghani tribalism

13 SidewaysQuark  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 3:56:26pm

re: #9 albusteve

yeah, the Taliban have nothing better to do...they like being killed by the boatload by the US...makes perfect sense

Of course - they have noses and hands to cut off.

14 albusteve  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 3:59:44pm

re: #11 Hawaii69

I didn't say Taliban...I said "Islamists".

The entire purpose of Al Quedas 9/11 was to instigate the
occupation of Muslim countries. They kicked the hornets
nest with the singular goal of stirring up the hornets.

Occupation & conflict brings legitimacy.

the Taliban have been around much longer than AQ, and they are your Islamists...as for your theory, I never heard that one...in fact only the opposite...did they invite the Soviets to invade to provide a rallying call?

15 Killgore Trout  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 4:01:15pm

re: #12 albusteve

surfing, there is not much info out there yet...it appears the last bad guys are pinned on the upper floor or roof...they'll run out of ammo sooner or later then blow themselves up and cop their virgins...an old story repeated over and over...the perfect expression of Afghani tribalism

I read earlier that NATO choppers cleared them off the roof.

16 albusteve  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 4:04:19pm

re: #15 Killgore Trout

I read earlier that NATO choppers cleared them off the roof.

maybe they got caught in a crossfire...the last thing is to let them get back in and hide out

17 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 4:04:26pm

Short AP video.

18 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 4:07:10pm

Twitter list, I think.
[Link: twitter.com...]

19 Amory Blaine  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 4:09:20pm

re: #14 albusteve

Good question. Although at that point had they been trained by the CIA yet?

20 Hawaii69  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 4:09:56pm

re: #14 albusteve

the Taliban have been around much longer than AQ, and they are your Islamists...as for your theory, I never heard that one...in fact only the opposite...did they invite the Soviets to invade to provide a rallying call?

The Soviets invaded because the Marxist government they had previously installed was under attack. They came in to prop it up.

I'm suprised you've never heard that theory before, as it is not a theory, but part of Bin Ladens well documented set of conditions that he believed needed to exist in order to establish the Islamic Caliphate.

In order for the Greater Islamic Caliphate to come into existence, he needed to force the Western occupation of muslim lands. In this way,
muslims in those lands would rise up to everthrow what they saw as the puppet governments & dictators installed by the "Crusaders". It would provide a rallying call to otherwise apathetic muslims. The crusaders would be driven out, the puppet governments toppled, the Caliphate established.

21 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 4:10:44pm

bsarwary Bilal Sarwary
Fighting is over.All of the attackers are dead.We are trying to take guests out. We dont know how many people got killed, G.Ayub tells BBC
16 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply

22 SpaceJesus  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 4:11:26pm

we need to get the hell out of that country

23 Alexzander  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 4:12:24pm

re: #22 SpaceJesus

we need to get the hell out of that country

When should we have left?

24 albusteve  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 4:14:18pm

re: #20 Hawaii69

The Soviets invaded because the Marxist government they had previously installed was under attack. They came in to prop it up.

I'm suprised you've never heard that theory before, as it is not a theory, but part of Bin Ladens well documented set of conditions that he believed needed to exist in order to establish the Islamic Caliphate.

In order for the Greater Islamic Caliphate to come into existence, he needed to force the Western occupation of muslim lands. In this way,
muslims in those lands would rise up to everthrow what they saw as the puppet governments & dictators installed by the "Crusaders". It would provide a rallying call to otherwise apathetic muslims. The crusaders would be driven out, the puppet governments toppled, the Caliphate established.

I have heard the theory before...the Taliban are primitive mountain people that could give a shit about any Caliphate...they despise foreigners...everything else is negotiable...many Talis now understand that providing haven for AQ was a huge mistake and want nothing more than to toss the US and go back to what they were doing 500 years ago...I'm not surprised you don't know that

25 SpaceJesus  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 4:14:19pm

re: #23 Alexzander

never should have gone in in the first place. should have hunted osama and al qaeda using covert means and small strike forces instead.

26 darthstar  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 4:15:00pm

re: #22 SpaceJesus

we need to get the hell out of that country

Yep. That was true in 2003.

27 wrenchwench  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 4:15:15pm

re: #18 Cannadian Club Akbar

Twitter list, I think.
[Link: twitter.com...]

Interesting. I hadn't seen a curated list before. Thanks.

Simon Klingert
@simon_klingert Simon Klingert
ISAF helicopters fired at insurgents on the roof, killing as many as three of the gunmen, ISAF spox Maj. Tim James. CNN:
28 Cannadian Club Akbar  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 4:15:51pm

re: #27 wrenchwench

Thanks. Guess I did it right.:)

29 Alexzander  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 4:18:05pm

re: #25 SpaceJesus

never should have gone in in the first place. should have hunted osama and al qaeda using covert means and small strike forces instead.

Agreed. Just interested in where you stood on that issue. We should never have been at war with "Afghanistan" let alone Iraq.

30 SpaceJesus  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 4:19:12pm

re: #29 Alexzander


20 billion dollars per year on air conditioning.

31 Varek Raith  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 4:19:53pm

re: #30 SpaceJesus

20 billion dollars per year on air conditioning.

Bigger than NASA's budget.

32 Alexzander  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 4:20:06pm

re: #30 SpaceJesus

20 billion dollars per year on air conditioning.

Man I know - I was outside of a US consulate protesting the day the war was announced. Where were you?

33 SpaceJesus  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 4:22:55pm

re: #32 Alexzander


wasn't even living in the US at that time

34 Mr Pancakes  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 4:23:06pm

re: #32 Alexzander

Man I know - I was outside of a US consulate protesting the day the war was announced. Where were you?

I remember.... my mom died the day we attacked Iraq, March of 03.

35 Alexzander  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 4:23:29pm

re: #33 SpaceJesus

wasn't even living in the US at that time

Neither was I, hence the US consulate.

36 Amory Blaine  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 4:24:44pm

If anything comes out of this I hope we accept a humanitarian commitment. I would like to see massive infrastructural improvements bankrolled by US and International companies. Maybe this is the way forward toward peace. Clean water, reliable electricity and a national education system could give hope.

37 researchok  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 4:25:44pm

Need to remember something? Think of the dentist or dead cats

If you want to remember new information, looking at photographs that stir up negative emotions may do the trick, suggests new research from Psychological Science.

Yeah, we know that sounds counterintuitive -- but it appears to work.

When study participants viewed color images of a dead cat, a pointed gun, or a person getting a dental exam -- pictures that evoke negative feelings -- it actually improved their recall of recently learned information.

38 SpaceJesus  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 4:26:50pm

re: #35 Alexzander


which war are we talking about?

afghanistan i was on exchange in germany

iraq i protested back home in CT

39 albusteve  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 4:26:50pm

re: #36 Amory Blaine

If anything comes out of this I hope we accept a humanitarian commitment. I would like to see massive infrastructural improvements bankrolled by US and International companies. Maybe this is the way forward toward peace. Clean water, reliable electricity and a national education system could give hope.

all that has to wait...security is the prime directive now and it seems pretty elusive to me

40 Amory Blaine  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 4:30:08pm

re: #39 albusteve

True, but with the Taliban weakened, the sooner the better. Local businesses could be set up, deploy and train local populations. No more foreign contractors or workers while the locals suffer. It could be done.

41 albusteve  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 4:31:20pm

re: #29 Alexzander

Agreed. Just interested in where you stood on that issue. We should never have been at war with "Afghanistan" let alone Iraq.

Afghanistan was already at war with itself...we just picked a side and joined in, hence the Northern alliance and the shootout at Tora Bora...did you have a better idea at the time?

42 albusteve  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 4:32:40pm

re: #40 Amory Blaine

True, but with the Taliban weakened, the sooner the better. Local businesses could be set up, deploy and train local populations. No more foreign contractors or workers while the locals suffer. It could be done.

and what do you do with the poppies?...what can Afghanistan export?...how do they finance an economy?

43 Mr Pancakes  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 4:33:27pm

re: #41 albusteve

Afghanistan was already at war with itself...we just picked a side and joined in, hence the Northern alliance and the shootout at Tora Bora...did you have a better idea at the time?

I was all for going in but we should get out now. What is our mission? Set up another democracy? That's not going to happen.

44 Amory Blaine  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 4:34:33pm

re: #42 albusteve

They can start financing with money taxed from US and other Corporate interests that have been been growing fat with US taxpayer money.

45 albusteve  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 4:36:51pm

re: #43 Mr Pancakes

I was all for going in but we should get out now. What is our mission? Set up another democracy? That's not going to happen.

our mission is saving political face...I for one want to know what the fuck we have been doing there since BO took office...if his strategy was to install 30k more troops over there, fight to a standstill then buy off the enemy, I'd say the guy is a lunatic...and deadly at that

46 Varek Raith  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 4:37:52pm

Boeing Overcharges Taxpayers By Up To 177,000 Percent For Army Helicopter Parts

$644.75 for a small gear smaller than a dime that sells for $12.51: more than a 5,100 percent increase in price. $1,678.61 for another tiny part, also smaller than a dime, that could have been bought within DoD for $7.71: a 21,000 percent increase. $71.01 for a straight, thin metal pin that DoD had on hand, unused by the tens of thousands, for 4 cents: an increase of over 177,000 percent.
47 Mr Pancakes  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 4:38:16pm

re: #45 albusteve

our mission is saving political face...I for one want to know what the fuck we have been doing there since BO took office...if his strategy was to install 30k more troops over there, fight to a standstill then buy off the enemy, I'd say the guy is a lunatic...and deadly at that

I think it was to mimic the Iraq surge(?) but I'm not sure.

48 darthstar  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 4:38:25pm

re: #44 Amory Blaine

They can start financing with money taxed from US and other Corporate interests that have been been growing fat with US taxpayer money.

Why can't we just cut Afghanistan's taxes and let the increased revenues pay for the war over there...and we can do the same with Iraq...cut their taxes and let the increased revenue pay for that war.

And if Pakistan doesn't get its shit together, we can propose tax cuts there...just to let them know we're serious about tax cuts.

49 albusteve  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 4:39:15pm

re: #44 Amory Blaine

They can start financing with money taxed from US and other Corporate interests that have been been growing fat with US taxpayer money.

that's not gonna happen...meanwhile US men and women are getting killed

50 Amory Blaine  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 4:39:40pm

re: #44 Amory Blaine

We could also start paying the farmers directly for the poppies then dumping them in the ocean or whatever. I'm sure they will trade with whoever has the cash.

51 SpaceJesus  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 4:39:49pm

obama should have said, "fuck this. bringing afghanistan into the 20th-21st century is either prohibitively expensive or impossible. we're out." then knocked something over and walked away.

52 darthstar  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 4:40:14pm

re: #46 Varek Raith

Boeing Overcharges Taxpayers By Up To 177,000 Percent For Army Helicopter Parts

Ah, the 400 dollar toilet seat...I love it when this discussion comes around every few years...anger, Outrage! FURY!!...acceptance. Now I need a cigarette.

53 albusteve  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 4:40:34pm

re: #47 Mr Pancakes

I think it was to mimic the Iraq surge(?) but I'm not sure.

neither is he...cloning GB was the worst mistake he could make, and he made it

54 darthstar  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 4:41:47pm

re: #51 SpaceJesus

obama should have said, "fuck this. bringing afghanistan into the 20th-21st century is either prohibitively expensive or impossible. we're out." then knocked something over and walked away.

Like the way he announced the death of bin Laden.

Image: obama-speech-he-is-dead-gif.gif

55 albusteve  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 4:41:53pm

re: #51 SpaceJesus

obama should have said, "fuck this. bringing afghanistan into the 20th-21st century is either prohibitively expensive or impossible. we're out." then knocked something over and walked away.

pretty much, yeah

56 HAL2010  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 4:43:09pm

re: #54 darthstar

Like the way he announced the death of bin Laden.

Image: obama-speech-he-is-dead-gif.gif

That would have been pretty awesome. Sort of makes the whole "Obama is weak on foreign policy" seem rather, well, silly.

57 Mr Pancakes  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 4:43:56pm

re: #52 darthstar

Ah, the 400 dollar toilet seat...I love it when this discussion comes around every few years...anger, Outrage! FURY!!...acceptance. Now I need a cigarette.

As a friend of mine who works in the defense industry would reply..... it's not the cost of the toliet seat or screwdriver or whatever, it's the cost of the R&D to come up with it.

58 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 4:44:56pm

re: #6 Alexzander

OT:

Rather than going OT before the first 10 comments, why not make it a page?

59 albusteve  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 4:46:47pm

re: #56 HAL2010

That would have been pretty awesome. Sort of makes the whole "Obama is weak on foreign policy" seem rather, well, silly.

his policy has little to do with OBL...that was all in motion when he was elected...his huge fuck up has been Afghanistan and now Libya, he has choices and blew it

60 darthstar  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 4:47:14pm

re: #57 Mr Pancakes

As a friend of mine who works in the defense industry would reply... it's not the cost of the toliet seat or screwdriver or whatever, it's the cost of the R&D to come up with it.

It's not the R&D - it's the program management and scoping and planning meetings and the number of people who have to be involved in any decision that add up. Now that I work for a rather large company, I've learned that some decisions don't get made with less than a million dollars in salary in the room...and that number goes up exponentially with the breadth of the policy change.

61 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 4:47:41pm

re: #57 Mr Pancakes

As a friend of mine who works in the defense industry would reply... it's not the cost of the toliet seat or screwdriver or whatever, it's the cost of the R&D to come up with it.

Or it's because the toilet seat was specially designed for the Space Shuttle which makes it slightly different than a toilet seat you can buy at Home Depot, or because the screws and the screwdrivers and the nuts and bolts were all off spec and had to be specifically machined because they would not fit anything commercially produced.

62 albusteve  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 4:48:57pm

re: #61 Alouette

Or it's because the toilet seat was specially designed for the Space Shuttle which makes it slightly different than a toilet seat you can buy at Home Depot, or because the screws and the screwdrivers and the nuts and bolts were all off spec and had to be specifically machined because they would not fit anything commercially produced.

the Shuttle doesn't use American Standard toilets?...oh, the humanity

63 Amory Blaine  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 4:50:42pm

Made by Shop-Vac.

:s

64 darthstar  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 4:51:10pm

re: #61 Alouette

Or it's because the toilet seat was specially designed for the Space Shuttle which makes it slightly different than a toilet seat you can buy at Home Depot, or because the screws and the screwdrivers and the nuts and bolts were all off spec and had to be specifically machined because they would not fit anything commercially produced.

It's a space shuttle...not a fucking Chrysler! Actually, I was talking about toilet seats for the bathrooms in the Pentagon. The Vacuu-Suck Space Shitter 2000 is understandably a little pricier. During the Apollo missions, the astronauts had to go all Ted Nugent on themselves...which is why they were whisked away for "debriefing" before meeting the press after landing.

65 Mr Pancakes  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 4:51:36pm

re: #60 darthstar

It's not the R&D - it's the program management and scoping and planning meetings and the number of people who have to be involved in any decision that add up. Now that I work for a rather large company, I've learned that some decisions don't get made with less than a million dollars in salary in the room...and that number goes up exponentially with the breadth of the policy change.

You don't think all that is included in final cost of the toilet seat? Everything we did where I worked (company shall go unnamed) was charged to a "program" right down to the guy mopping the floor.

66 Decatur Deb  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 4:52:09pm

re: #52 darthstar

Ah, the 400 dollar toilet seat...I love it when this discussion comes around every few years...anger, Outrage! FURY!!...acceptance. Now I need a cigarette.

Other than the simple ripoffs, which certainly exist, there is a real-world accounting explanation for the toilet seats and the 600 dollar hammers.

Short version: Some system acquisitions call for the total cost, including complex R&D, to be billed over each line item of deliverables. Thus an Xray Ion Laser Cannon pump and a spare bolt each report the same share of R&D.

If you want the Long Version, you have to sit through a couple boring months at Defense Acquisition University.

67 albusteve  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 4:52:26pm

as per KT's earlier statement...

The popular Inter-Continental hotel in Kabul came under attack by suicide bombers and gunmen Tuesday, a U.S. official told Fox News. U.S. forces were called in to assist in gunbattles with assailants in the hotel, while NATO says its helicopters have killed three of the attackers.

you need them dead?...call us

Read more: [Link: www.foxnews.com...]

68 HAL2010  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 4:52:44pm

re: #59 albusteve

his policy has little to do with OBL...that was all in motion when he was elected...his huge fuck up has been Afghanistan and now Libya, he has choices and blew it

Disagree. If you look at Obama's policy towards Pakistan in particular, he has been far more aggressive than the Bush administration was.
One example is the number of drone attacks.

33 in 2008, 53 in 2009, 118 in 2010, and 40 so far this year. A rough estimation (with maximum causalties) shows that since 2004, almost 4/5th of those killed were under Obama's watch (~ 2000).

Afghanistan was a mess before he was elected, and now he is starting a pullout. Could probably not have done a lot more really.

What do you believe he "fucked up" in regards to Libya?

69 Decatur Deb  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 4:53:19pm

re: #57 Mr Pancakes

As a friend of mine who works in the defense industry would reply... it's not the cost of the toliet seat or screwdriver or whatever, it's the cost of the R&D to come up with it.

Crap. You got in first while I was diatryping.

70 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 4:53:44pm

re: #7 dragonfire1981

So will the right wing hold this up as an example of why Obama is "soft on terrorism" ?

Er, yes. Yes they will.

71 Decatur Deb  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 4:54:31pm

re: #62 albusteve

the Shuttle doesn't use American Standard toilets?...oh, the humanity

The ISS Outhouse Module is named for Stephen Colbert.

72 albusteve  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 4:55:21pm

re: #68 HAL2010

Disagree. If you look at Obama's policy towards Pakistan in particular, he has been far more aggressive than the Bush administration was.
One example is the number of drone attacks.

33 in 2008, 53 in 2009, 118 in 2010, and 40 so far this year. A rough estimation (with maximum causalties) shows that since 2004, almost 4/5th of those killed were under Obama's watch (~ 2000).

Afghanistan was a mess before he was elected, and now he is starting a pullout. Could probably not have done a lot more really.

What do you believe he "fucked up" in regards to Libya?

I did not refer to his ideas about Pakistan, but to the OBL killing...as for Libya, he should have gone to congress and made nice...stupidly, he didn't

73 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 4:55:39pm

re: #42 albusteve

and what do you do with the poppies?...what can Afghanistan export?...how do they finance an economy?

The poppies are a good cash crop.

74 efuseakay  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 4:56:20pm

re: #2 Obdicut

If it's only 10 dead we were lucky.

Ask those 10 how lucky we were...

75 albusteve  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 4:56:27pm

re: #73 SanFranciscoZionist

The poppies are a good cash crop.

that's the point

76 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 4:56:31pm

re: #50 Amory Blaine

We could also start paying the farmers directly for the poppies then dumping them in the ocean or whatever. I'm sure they will trade with whoever has the cash.

Dumping them? Hell no! Opiate are opiates, pharmaceutical companies can use that stuff.

77 darthstar  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 4:57:46pm

re: #73 SanFranciscoZionist

The poppies are a good cash crop.

Poppies are the opium of the people!

78 Decatur Deb  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 4:58:01pm

re: #71 Decatur Deb

The ISS Outhouse Module is named for Stephen Colbert.

Correction: They stiffed him on the toilet, named a treadmill for him.

[Link: www.google.com...]

79 albusteve  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 4:58:47pm

re: #76 SanFranciscoZionist

Dumping them? Hell no! Opiate are opiates, pharmaceutical companies can use that stuff.

you can't be serious...Afghan poppies are converted to heroin, not sold to some Swiss pharm

80 HAL2010  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 4:59:48pm

re: #72 albusteve

I did not refer to his ideas about Pakistan, but to the OBL killing...as for Libya, he should have gone to congress and made nice...stupidly, he didn't

That particular operation was planned for years, I'll grant you that. But it took some stones to authorize it. Had the operation failed he would have been labeled "Jimmy Carter 2.0" before it was over.

As for congress, I am not sure what particular laws apply within the US. But as I understand it, he should have asked for authorization.

81 Killgore Trout  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 5:00:25pm

re: #79 albusteve

you can't be serious...Afghan poppies are converted to heroin, not sold to some Swiss pharm

Nope, they are key in making pain killer like Morphine. I think it was Hitchens who first proposed the poppy crop be sold to drug companies. Not a bad idea.

82 Varek Raith  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 5:00:54pm

re: #79 albusteve

you can't be serious...Afghan poppies are converted to heroin, not sold to some Swiss pharm

She's referring to us buying them directly.

83 HAL2010  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 5:00:59pm

re: #81 Killgore Trout

Nope, they are key in making pain killer like Morphine. I think it was Hitchens who first proposed the poppy crop be sold to drug companies. Not a bad idea.

Am I dreaming or did I read that article in Slate?

84 BishopX  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 5:01:19pm

re: #81 Killgore Trout

Most of the pharmaceutical poppies are produced in Australia IIRC.

85 Amory Blaine  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 5:01:25pm

re: #76 SanFranciscoZionist

I'm just saying, after we buy them they don't have to end up in the crime stream.

86 Obdicut  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 5:01:57pm

re: #74 efuseakay

Ask those 10 how lucky we were...

Didja just miss the point, or are you just trying for the "i'm more sensitive than you" award?

This was a large, coordinated attack, with machineguns and suicide bombers. Only ten dead would be a very lucky outcome.

87 Gus  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 5:02:02pm

I'm a bit confused -- or perhaps not. I thought we had made "great strides" and have been "close to victory" in Afghanistan. How could there have been a "massive attack" in central Kabul given these alleged assurances by the Pentagon and the White House?

Yet another day in one of our surrogate states in the Middle East. Who was it that once said that after 9/11 the USA had become a part of the Middle East? Frankly, after 10 years this has gotten very old; cost too many American lives; and has helped bankrupt this nation.

88 albusteve  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 5:02:29pm

re: #80 HAL2010

That particular operation was planned for years, I'll grant you that. But it took some stones to authorize it. Had the operation failed he would have been labeled "Jimmy Carter 2.0" before it was over.

As for congress, I am not sure what particular laws apply within the US. But as I understand it, he should have asked for authorization.

he is a servant of the people...right, wrong or otherwise, it would have been the smart thing to do...now he's getting trashed by the far left, a sizable chunk of votes...if the economy continues to tank, which BO seems to promote, he's in deep shit come election time

89 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 5:03:54pm

re: #79 albusteve

you can't be serious...Afghan poppies are converted to heroin, not sold to some Swiss pharm

Is there a reason why a Swiss pharm couldn't use them if they had them?

90 HAL2010  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 5:04:06pm

Right, interesting discussions all round, but it's two in the morning over here. I'm off to bed.

Good night!

91 albusteve  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 5:04:26pm

re: #81 Killgore Trout

Nope, they are key in making pain killer like Morphine. I think it was Hitchens who first proposed the poppy crop be sold to drug companies. Not a bad idea.

I know about opiates...the market is 10 times more valuable as heroin...explain that to some semi literate poppy farmer

92 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 5:05:30pm

re: #91 albusteve

I know about opiates...the market is 10 times more valuable as heroin...explain that to some semi literate poppy farmer

Are they getting paid their value?
I'm pretty sure we could match it.

93 Decatur Deb  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 5:05:39pm

re: #85 Amory Blaine

I'm just saying, after we buy them they don't have to end up in the crime stream.

There is more than gold in Ft. Knox Fed Depository. It has (or had) our strategic morphine reserve. Perhaps explains Rep Paul's jonesing for a visit.

[Link: www.google.com...]

[Link: www.google.com...]

94 albusteve  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 5:06:17pm

re: #82 Varek Raith

She's referring to us buying them directly.

right, but we have no use for that volume...buying off the growers is, I'm positive, a large part of the BO scheme to split that place

95 Varek Raith  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 5:07:16pm

re: #91 albusteve

I know about opiates...the market is 10 times more valuable as heroin...explain that to some semi literate poppy farmer

Cash.
Money.
Dinero.
Moola.
Clams.

96 Gus  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 5:07:24pm

re: #91 albusteve

I know about opiates...the market is 10 times more valuable as heroin...explain that to some semi literate poppy farmer

Just do what they would do in the USA. Have the poppy farms seized by the state and then use armed gunmen (aka law enforcement) to maintain order and then sell the product at market value to American based multi-national pharmaceutical corporation who will turn around and sell the synthesized product to make massive profits.

//S

97 albusteve  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 5:07:31pm

re: #89 SanFranciscoZionist

Is there a reason why a Swiss pharm couldn't use them if they had them?

nobody needs that much morphine, the chemical precursor to heroin

98 Gus  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 5:08:45pm

We have attained rain! Low ceiling coming into San Jose airport. Pilots be advised and try not to hit the ground.

//

99 Varek Raith  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 5:09:21pm

re: #97 albusteve

nobody needs that much morphine, the chemical precursor to heroin

We buy as much as we can from the farmers, sell what we can to the pharms and destroy the rest.
Better waste of money than our current strategies.

100 Amory Blaine  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 5:09:33pm

Burn it or dump it. I'm pretty sure that the farmer is probably the lowest paid person in the whole trade.

101 Gus  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 5:10:06pm

re: #97 albusteve

nobody needs that much morphine, the chemical precursor to heroin

I have an idea. Let them figure it all out.

102 Mr Pancakes  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 5:10:44pm

re: #97 albusteve

nobody needs that much morphine, the chemical precursor to heroin

I did ..... went to the hospital once for some weird chest pain...... it got better. Nurse said the doc was taking me off of morphine and putting me on Tylenol....... I said excuse me?

103 Obdicut  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 5:10:48pm

re: #97 albusteve

nobody needs that much morphine, the chemical precursor to heroin

Um, yes, the worldwide consumption of morphine is huge. It's still one of the most common painkillers used in hospitals-- and even for outpatients-- today.

104 albusteve  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 5:11:16pm

are you gonna cut a deal with some pharm company to sell your product at $x and risk getting killed...or are you gonna give it to the man with the machine gun for $x times 10 and you are left alone...think about it

105 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 5:12:02pm

re: #97 albusteve

nobody needs that much morphine, the chemical precursor to heroin

Nobody needs three dozen brownies either, but churches still hold bake sales.

106 Gus  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 5:12:20pm

It's funny how people always talk about the United Nations as being this meddling international body trying to force the USA into carrying on according to their own whims. Yet at the same time those very same people have no problem with the USA acting in the same manner and acting as an even "bigger brother" and "world policeman" across the globe.

107 albusteve  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 5:13:11pm

re: #103 Obdicut

Um, yes, the worldwide consumption of morphine is huge. It's still one of the most common painkillers used in hospitals-- and even for outpatients-- today.

LOL!...duh?

108 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 5:13:13pm

re: #104 albusteve

are you gonna cut a deal with some pharm company to sell your product at $x and risk getting killed...or are you gonna give it to the man with the machine gun for $x times 10 and you are left alone...think about it

The machine gun is an issue, but I seriously doubt the farmers are getting paid an extravagant amount.

109 darthstar  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 5:13:36pm

re: #105 SanFranciscoZionist

Nobody needs three dozen brownies either, but churches still hold bake sales.

I ate half a cookie at Golden Gate Park and was fucked up for a few hours.

110 Varek Raith  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 5:13:37pm

re: #105 SanFranciscoZionist

Nobody needs three dozen brownies either, but churches still hold bake sales.

Speak for yourself.

111 Digital Display  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 5:14:54pm

re: #104 albusteve

are you gonna cut a deal with some pharm company to sell your product at $x and risk getting killed...or are you gonna give it to the man with the machine gun for $x times 10 and you are left alone...think about it

Plus if we start buying that shit then people will ask why we aren't buying all the Coke in Columbia and the Pot in Mexico and pretty soon the USA will be the biggest buyer of drugs in the world...
oh wait...

112 Decatur Deb  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 5:14:55pm

re: #109 darthstar

I ate half a cookie at Golden Gate Park and was fucked up for a few hours.

Was all the sweet green icing flowing down?

113 albusteve  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 5:16:17pm

re: #108 SanFranciscoZionist

The machine gun is an issue, but I seriously doubt the farmers are getting paid an extravagant amount.

the price is maxed out every season...weapons and bribes are very costly and the farmers are at the bottom of the pecking order...high quality heroin leaves a long road of profit behind as it moves through the process from cultivation to use

114 Mr Pancakes  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 5:16:22pm

re: #112 Decatur Deb

Was all the sweet green icing flowing down?

Someone left the brownie out in the rain.

115 albusteve  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 5:17:44pm

re: #111 HoosierHoops

Plus if we start buying that shit then people will ask why we aren't buying all the Coke in Columbia and the Pot in Mexico and pretty soon the USA will be the biggest buyer of drugs in the world...
oh wait...

the whole gig is a loser...there are many questions and few answers...I say get out and regroup

116 Gus  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 5:18:09pm

re: #113 albusteve

the price is maxed out every season...weapons and bribes are very costly and the farmers are at the bottom of the pecking order...high quality heroin leaves a long road of profit behind as it moves through the process from cultivation to use

Thank goodness that all of this drug war, intervention, and incarcerations have helped cut down on illicit drug use and even helped lower prescription drug use at the same time. I'm sure the money spent couldn't have been used in a better way.

//

117 Mr Pancakes  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 5:18:35pm

re: #111 HoosierHoops

Plus if we start buying that shit then people will ask why we aren't buying all the Coke in Columbia and the Pot in Mexico and pretty soon the USA will be the biggest buyer of drugs in the world...
oh wait...

Just say no!

118 darthstar  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 5:18:50pm

re: #112 Decatur Deb

Was all the sweet green icing flowing down?

Let's just say it had a bit of fiber in it.

119 Decatur Deb  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 5:19:33pm

re: #118 darthstar

Let's just say it had a bit of fiber in it.

"A brownie is a brownie is a brownie."

120 Mr Pancakes  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 5:19:53pm

re: #118 darthstar

Let's just say it had a bit of fiber in it.

Did you shit out a basket?

121 austin_blue  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 5:21:07pm

In the Science Times today:

Success!

[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

Relief! (This one is for Charles)

[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

And on the front page, the story at hand, updated twenty minutes ago:

[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

122 bratwurst  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 5:22:25pm

re: #117 Mr Pancakes

Just say no!

Get high on yourself!

123 darthstar  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 5:23:04pm

re: #119 Decatur Deb

When you ask the girl selling them if it's strong and she giggles and says, "Yeah-uhh", you know you're in for a treat.

124 Amory Blaine  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 5:23:20pm

re: #113 albusteve

the price is maxed out every season...weapons and bribes are very costly and the farmers are at the bottom of the pecking order...high quality heroin leaves a long road of profit behind as it moves through the process from cultivation to use

The beauty is, if we buy it directly from the farmers, it removes alot of shady characters from the process.

125 darthstar  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 5:24:33pm

re: #120 Mr Pancakes

Did you shit out a basket?

You could say it floated...

Image: p95449-Tenerife-Kon-Tiki.jpg

126 Mr Pancakes  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 5:24:39pm

re: #122 bratwurst

Get high on yourself!

[Video]

Wow... that's like "Up With People" shit.

127 Decatur Deb  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 5:25:01pm

re: #123 darthstar

When you ask the girl selling them if it's strong and she giggles and says, "Yeah-uhh", you know you're in for a treat.

Heading to the freezer for some B&J Cherry Garcia.

128 Mr Pancakes  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 5:25:31pm

re: #125 darthstar

You could say it floated...

Image: p95449-Tenerife-Kon-Tiki.jpg

I am in awe of your prowess. Another use for hemp everyone!

129 albusteve  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 5:26:26pm

re: #124 Amory Blaine

The beauty is, if we buy it directly from the farmers, it removes alot of shady characters from the process.

but we have to control the influence of those guys...the poppie problem is very complex and huge...there is nothing but mayhem and death surrounding the entire thing...buying poppies is ludicrous unless you can ensure that growers safety...probably what BO is intending to bribe from both Karzai and the Taliban

130 Varek Raith  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 5:27:12pm
131 researchok  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 5:27:55pm

re: #116 Gus 802

Mail

132 Mr Pancakes  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 5:28:26pm

re: #131 researchok

Mail

Nail

133 Digital Display  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 5:28:59pm

re: #117 Mr Pancakes

Just say no!

I applied and was accepted by the Napa board of Supervisors for an Appointment for 1 year on a Technical advisory committee for the Mental Health dept concerning drug use.. I was like 22 years old....I wrote a classic letter to the board about drugs.. Little did I know most of these people were PHD's.. I will never forget the first night were I heard the talk behind my back.. Who the hell is that and how did he get here?
I was intimidated to say the least.. But week after week we grew closer and I challenged every idea they had as a brash young man..( even now somethings I said will make my face blush)
But I learned a lot but I'm not sure there are any answers for drug use then or now..

134 Killgore Trout  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 5:29:01pm

re: #83 HAL2010

Am I dreaming or did I read that article in Slate?

Probably.

135 researchok  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 5:29:55pm

re: #132 Mr Pancakes

Nail

Sail

136 ProGunLiberal  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 5:30:00pm

Off topic, but TS Arlene has formed.

137 Gus  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 5:30:05pm

re: #131 researchok

Mail

OK. Looking now. Make that trying to open it up. Suddenly AT&T is having yet another brain fart.

138 Mr Pancakes  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 5:30:11pm

re: #135 researchok

Sail

Pail

139 BishopX  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 5:30:16pm

re: #135 researchok

Bail!

140 Mr Pancakes  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 5:30:41pm

re: #139 BishopX

Bail!

Fail!

141 researchok  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 5:30:42pm

re: #137 Gus 802

OK. Looking now. Make that trying to open it up. Suddenly AT&T is having yet another brain fart.

Karma.
//

142 Stanghazi  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 5:30:47pm

re: #135 researchok

Sail

Jail!

It has to progress to somewhere bad

143 Mr Pancakes  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 5:30:57pm

re: #141 researchok

Karma.
//

Instant

144 researchok  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 5:31:09pm

re: #142 Stanley Sea

Jail!

It has to progress to somewhere bad

Hail

145 Stanghazi  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 5:31:44pm

BreakingNews Breaking News

Kabul police: 7 killed, 8 wounded in suicide attack on Western-style hotel in Kabul - @AP

146 Gus  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 5:32:49pm

re: #141 researchok

Karma.
//

Karma...police...

OK. Sent a response. Just got up from a nap so I need to look at that stuff later. :)

147 Gus  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 5:33:37pm
148 Mr Pancakes  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 5:33:47pm

re: #146 Gus 802

Karma...police...

OK. Sent a response. Just got up from a nap so I need to look at that stuff later. :)

This is what you get when you mess with us.

149 Mr Pancakes  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 5:35:38pm

re: #147 Gus 802

Radiohead - Karma Police

[Video]

I love that song..... I find it absolutely "adorable".

150 Gus  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 5:36:05pm

re: #148 Mr Pancakes

This is what you get when you mess with us.

One of my favorites from the 90s. Ah, the 90s.

151 researchok  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 5:36:45pm

re: #146 Gus 802

Karma...police...

OK. Sent a response. Just got up from a nap so I need to look at that stuff later. :)

Mo

152 albusteve  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 5:36:52pm

re: #149 Mr Pancakes

I love that song... I find it absolutely "adorable".


I guess I'm not there yet...is time running out?

153 Mr Pancakes  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 5:37:07pm

re: #150 Gus 802

One of my favorites from the 90s. Ah, the 90s.

Yep yep yep........ that and Paranoid Android.

154 wrenchwench  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 5:37:57pm

Snail.

155 Mr Pancakes  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 5:37:58pm

re: #152 albusteve

I guess I'm not there yet...is time running out?

Steve you should listen man...... it's very John Lennonish...... and I'm an old guy like you.

156 Gus  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 5:38:17pm

re: #151 researchok

Mo

Mo betta.

Drinking coffee. Ick. Made it with the local water. Blech. Eek. Put some soy milk in it though -- tastes better. I'm not a soy milk type of person.

157 albusteve  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 5:38:32pm

Howlin Wolf was adorable...

158 Gus  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 5:39:06pm

re: #156 Gus 802

Mo betta.

Drinking coffee. Ick. Made it with the local water. Blech. Eek. Put some soy milk in it though -- tastes better. I'm not a soy milk type of person.

God, guns and normal cow milk for me!

//

159 Digital Display  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 5:39:16pm

re: #155 Mr Pancakes

Steve you should listen man... it's very John Lennonish... and I'm an old guy like you.

Music is like Wine.. Everyone can disagree about it and everybody is right..

160 researchok  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 5:39:26pm

re: #156 Gus 802

Mo betta.

Drinking coffee. Ick. Made it with the local water. Blech. Eek. Put some soy milk in it though -- tastes better. I'm not a soy milk type of person.

Soy milk?

Go ahead, kill me.

161 Mr Pancakes  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 5:39:58pm

re: #157 albusteve

Howlin Wolf was adorable...

Please note I put "adorable" in quotes...... someone slap me if I ever use that word as an adult male to describe anything..... thanks.

162 Amory Blaine  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 5:40:02pm
163 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 5:40:26pm

re: #160 researchok

I like soy juice. But you can't milk a soybean.

164 researchok  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 5:40:39pm

re: #159 HoosierHoops

Music is like Wine.. Everyone can disagree about it and everybody is right..

You like Lawrence Welk and the Polka Band, don't you?
//

165 Gus  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 5:40:59pm

re: #157 albusteve

Howlin Wolf was adorable...

That's cool. Myself I think Belinda Carlisle is adorable. Not for her music though.

//

166 albusteve  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 5:41:18pm

re: #159 HoosierHoops

Music is like Wine.. Everyone can disagree about it and everybody is right..

some wines are righter than others...jus sayin...
only a commie would disregard the Wolf

167 Decatur Deb  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 5:41:28pm

re: #164 researchok

You like Lawrence Welk and the Polka Band, don't you?
//

Which was your favorite Lennon Sister?

168 researchok  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 5:41:46pm

re: #167 Decatur Deb

Which was your favorite Lennon Sister?

John

169 albusteve  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 5:42:43pm

re: #161 Mr Pancakes

Please note I put "adorable" in quotes... someone slap me if I ever use that word as an adult male to describe anything... thanks.

okay...Howlin Wolf was a monster that should have been in chains...
WOOK OUUT!

170 researchok  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 5:42:50pm

re: #165 Gus 802

That's cool. Myself I think Belinda Carlisle is adorable. Not for her music though.

//

Shania Twain

171 Gus  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 5:43:59pm

re: #167 Decatur Deb

Which was your favorite Lennon Sister?

Vladimir!

Oops. You said Lennon.

//

172 Killgore Trout  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 5:44:02pm

re: #145 Stanley Sea

BreakingNews Breaking News

Kabul police: 7 killed, 8 wounded in suicide attack on Western-style hotel in Kabul - @AP

Good news. It sounds like the attack failed. It could have been much worse.

173 Mr Pancakes  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 5:44:05pm

re: #169 albusteve

okay...Howlin Wolf was a monster that should have been in chains...
WOOK OUUT!

Rolling Stones was a natural progression.

174 darthstar  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 5:44:34pm

Question: The new Harry Potter movie is coming out in a few weeks...is the first half of the last installment worth the $5.99 I have to pay for it to watch it on pay per view? Or should I be satisfied with having watched the first six movies and just let the series die a peaceful death without seeing the last two films?

175 Decatur Deb  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 5:44:44pm

re: #171 Gus 802

Vladimir!

Oops. You said Lennon.

//

Lenninist!!

176 laZardo  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 5:44:50pm

re: #106 Gus 802

It's funny how people always talk about the United Nations as being this meddling international body trying to force the USA into carrying on according to their own whims. Yet at the same time those very same people have no problem with the USA acting in the same manner and acting as an even "bigger brother" and "world policeman" across the globe.

Suddenly, isolationism is looking pretty tempting.

177 Gus  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 5:45:09pm

re: #170 researchok

Shania Twain

Alison Krauss

178 Eclectic Infidel  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 5:45:12pm

Greece is getting ugly too.

179 Mr Pancakes  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 5:45:28pm

re: #174 darthstar

Question: The new Harry Potter movie is coming out in a few weeks...is the first half of the last installment worth the $5.99 I have to pay for it to watch it on pay per view? Or should I be satisfied with having watched the first six movies and just let the series die a peaceful death without seeing the last two films?

Harry who? Harry and the Hendersons?

180 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 5:45:53pm

re: #174 darthstar

Watch it. It's excellent.

I can't wait (well, I guess I have to) for the new one to come out.

181 Gus  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 5:46:19pm

re: #176 laZardo

Suddenly, isolationism is looking pretty tempting.

Yeah. I get that way sometimes. No one should worry though. I'm just playing "world leader pretend".

182 researchok  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 5:46:38pm

re: #178 eclectic infidel

Greece is getting ugly too.

Otherwise referred to as 'Failing' or 'Sinking fast'.

183 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 5:47:01pm

Heh. ABC World News just commented on Bachmann "embracing the revisionist history of the Tea Party", following with a clip on the John Quincy Adams flap.

This election cycle is going to be nuts. I expect lots of crying about "The Liberal MSM and their sneaky Gotcha! questions".

184 Mr Pancakes  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 5:47:10pm

re: #182 researchok

Otherwise referred to as 'Failing' or 'Sinking fast'.

Stock up on feta cheese.

185 Gus  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 5:47:12pm

re: #182 researchok

Otherwise referred to as 'Failing' or 'Sinking fast'.

Zeus will save them!

/

186 researchok  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 5:47:25pm

re: #181 Gus 802

Yeah. I get that way sometimes. No one should worry though. I'm just playing "world leader pretend".

Like Mugabe?
/

187 darthstar  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 5:47:55pm

re: #180 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Watch it. It's excellent.

I can't wait (well, I guess I have to) for the new one to come out.

Fine, I'll watch it...but if someone says "Expelliarmus!" with a smile on their face I'm coming back to talk to you personally.

188 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 5:48:08pm

re: #11 Hawaii69

I didn't say Taliban...I said "Islamists".

The entire purpose of Al Quedas 9/11 was to instigate the
occupation of Muslim countries. They kicked the hornets
nest with the singular goal of stirring up the hornets.

Occupation & conflict brings legitimacy.

Was it ever explained where this theory comes from?

189 laZardo  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 5:48:20pm

re: #181 Gus 802

Yeah. I get that way sometimes. No one should worry though. I'm just playing "world leader pretend".

Only because the only politician that genuinely seems to believe it is a certain crazy uncle.

190 albusteve  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 5:49:16pm

re: #173 Mr Pancakes

Rolling Stones was a natural progression.

you know...they are nice people at the drive in and around town...on tour the shit starts...
seriously now...KRichards worshipped Howlin Wolf and it was infectious throughout the band...Mick is a student of the blues, no less than Clapton or others, but his persona precedes him....cha ching!...figure it out...
those old guys, those living legends, would have vanished if not for the Stones

191 darthstar  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 5:50:07pm

Good news: it's only $4.99 and not $5.99...bad news - Comcast/Xfinity doesn't have an HD widescreen version...fuckers.

192 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 5:50:46pm

Way OT but I was laughing at the office. Obama is out polling Palin in Alaska. LOL.

193 engineer cat  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 5:50:55pm

in a rational debate, greece would be an example of why austerity is not the correct solution for these kind of fiscal woes

but this is american politics

194 Decatur Deb  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 5:51:18pm

re: #190 albusteve

you know......
those old guys, those living legends, would have vanished if not for the Stones

They got good airplay in the 60s, before the psychedelic shit invaded the folk scene.

195 Digital Display  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 5:51:27pm

re: #190 albusteve

You need to read this..Fantastic stories about the Blues
[Link: www.amazon.com...]

196 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 5:51:37pm

re: #187 darthstar

Bring it. I love the Harry Potter books and movies. The last few installments have gotten pretty dark.

My kids were too "old", so I read one my mom bought for them and was hooked.

197 Mr Pancakes  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 5:52:02pm

re: #190 albusteve

you know...they are nice people at the drive in and around town...on tour the shit starts...
seriously now...KRichards worshipped Howlin Wolf and it was infectious throughout the band...Mick is a student of the blues, no less than Clapton or others, but his persona precedes him...cha ching!...figure it out...
those old guys, those living legends, would have vanished if not for the Stones

You're right....... most of the rock legends we know started off in a blues vein...... and I give thanks for that. Another path was folk.....

198 researchok  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 5:52:18pm

re: #193 engineer dog

in a rational debate, greece would be an example of why austerity is not the correct solution for these kind of fiscal woes

but this is american politics

Greece is an example of what happens when people don't pay taxes and politicians promise not to go after them for votes.

199 Gus  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 5:52:44pm

re: #189 laZardo

Only because the only politician that genuinely seems to believe it is a certain crazy uncle.

I'm fine with that. Seriously. And I also have plenty of company in this country. Given that it is a democracy we also have every right to call for this. Until we become a totalitarian state that's just something we'll all have to "put up with". Democracy is strange like that sometimes.

200 darthstar  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 5:52:51pm

Hermione got hips!

201 Killgore Trout  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 5:52:52pm

re: #174 darthstar

Question: The new Harry Potter movie is coming out in a few weeks...is the first half of the last installment worth the $5.99 I have to pay for it to watch it on pay per view? Or should I be satisfied with having watched the first six movies and just let the series die a peaceful death without seeing the last two films?

I saw the first few (for free on airplanes) and thought they were really kinda neat movies. I was less impressed with the latter ones as they tried to get more serious.

202 darthstar  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 5:54:14pm

re: #201 Killgore Trout

I saw the first few (for free on airplanes) and thought they were really kinda neat movies. I was less impressed with the latter ones as they tried to get more serious.

The books were like that...started as children's books, but as Rowling matured as a writer and her kids got older, the story took on a life of its own and got somewhat darker.

203 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 5:54:17pm

re: #200 darthstar

Hermione got hips!

[Link: www.kontraband.com...]

204 engineer cat  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 5:54:32pm

re: #198 researchok

Greece is an example of what happens when people don't pay taxes and politicians promise not to go after them for votes.

maybe, but i was talking about the solution, not the cause

205 Killgore Trout  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 5:55:55pm

re: #183 Slumbering Behemoth

Heh. ABC World News just commented on Bachmann "embracing the revisionist history of the Tea Party", following with a clip on the John Quincy Adams flap.

This election cycle is going to be nuts. I expect lots of crying about "The Liberal MSM and their sneaky Gotcha! questions".

Fox News is already on the case....
What Michele Bachmann Learned From Sarah Palin

With Palin, the left-leaning press asked “gotcha” questions, unlikely to be asked of a man. The then-Alaska governor was asked everything from obscure foreign policy questions to simple, almost insulting ones like “what papers do you read?” And they were all crafted, by design to confuse her.


It's a trap!

206 albusteve  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 5:56:36pm

re: #194 Decatur Deb

They got good airplay in the 60s, before the psychedelic shit invaded the folk scene.

I saw many of those old delta guys...some where dragged out of the house and learned to play again

207 researchok  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 5:57:39pm

re: #204 engineer dog

maybe, but i was talking about the solution, not the cause

In the end, I believe it is the amount of austerity they can handle that will be the issue.

The EU sees that. France announced they will roll over Greek debt for 30 years.

Commitment.

208 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 5:58:46pm

Sanity break, courtesy Leftwingconspirator who sent me the link
SRV

209 Gus  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 5:58:55pm

re: #198 researchok

Greece is an example of what happens when people don't pay taxes and politicians promise not to go after them for votes.

Or they can be like the USA where they do pay their taxes while having their spending well under control.

//

210 researchok  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 5:59:10pm

re: #209 Gus 802

Or they can be like the USA where they do pay their taxes while having their spending well under control.

//

LOL

211 researchok  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 6:00:09pm

Deadliest Catch on TV, LGF on the puter.

Life can be good.

212 engineer cat  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 6:00:18pm

re: #207 researchok

In the end, I believe it is the amount of austerity they can handle that will be the issue.

The EU sees that. France announced they will roll over Greek debt for 30 years.

Commitment.

i hear a lot about how we "can't spend our way to prosperity", but judging by the example of greece you can't starve your way to prosperity either

austerity ain't working

213 Mr Pancakes  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 6:00:48pm

re: #209 Gus 802

Or they can be like the USA where they do pay their taxes while having their spending well under control.

//

Shaaa.... print more money.......

/channeling Weimarer

214 Varek Raith  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 6:01:50pm

Get rid of money.
Crisis solved!

215 researchok  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 6:01:57pm

re: #212 engineer dog

i hear a lot about how we "can't spend our way to prosperity", but judging by the example of greece you can't starve your way to prosperity either

austerity ain't working

It's not a zero sum game. There has to be both.

There has to be prudent spending and a workable austerity program.

216 Mr Pancakes  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 6:02:06pm

re: #211 researchok

Deadliest Catch on TV, LGF on the puter.

Life can be good.

I have a TV card..... no need for a TV.

217 Gus  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 6:02:10pm

re: #213 Mr Pancakes

Shaaa... print more money...

/channeling Weimarer

Just don't ask to see who we do it! Top secret you know. Billions will die if we ever look into the secret lair.

//

218 Killgore Trout  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 6:03:04pm

Glenn Beck Retells Personal Story Of ‘Cultural Elite’ Who Mocked Him In NY Park

Beck tells is tale of mockery and scorn again on TV.

We at Mediaite contacted one of the Twitter users who tweeted about sitting near Beck and his family and she told us she didn’t witness any of the hostility Beck describes. She said that, in fact, she saw people going up to shake his hand and that the only real jeers she heard were directed at a group doing fake acrobatics sitting near him. She also said she believed he had two security guards sitting right by the entire time.
219 engineer cat  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 6:03:10pm

re: #215 researchok

It's not a zero sum game. There has to be both.

There has to be prudent spending and a workable austerity program.

whatever they are doing, i repeat, it ain't working

time to try something else

220 researchok  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 6:03:18pm

re: #217 Gus 802

Just don't ask to see who we do it! Top secret you know. Billions will die if we ever look into the secret lair.

//

Invest in wheelbarrows.

221 Mr Pancakes  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 6:04:06pm

re: #220 researchok

Invest in wheelbarrows.

For bread..... good one!

222 researchok  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 6:04:14pm

re: #219 engineer dog

whatever they are doing, i repeat, it ain't working

time to try something else

There will be protests if the population doesn't get what it wants.

What it wants won't solve the problem.

223 Gus  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 6:04:36pm

re: #214 Varek Raith

Get rid of money.
Crisis solved!

No. Just send all your money to me.

After that I will guarantee you eternal salvation.

//

224 Mr Pancakes  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 6:05:11pm

re: #223 Gus 802

No. Just send all your money to me.

After that I will guarantee you eternal salvation.

//

Address please?

225 engineer cat  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 6:05:31pm

re: #222 researchok

There will be protests if the population doesn't get what it wants.

What it wants won't solve the problem.

how can you be so sure?

226 researchok  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 6:05:35pm

re: #223 Gus 802

No. Just send all your money to me.

After that I will guarantee you eternal salvation.

//

No more Benny Hinn or Pat Robertson for you.

227 researchok  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 6:06:17pm

re: #225 engineer dog

how can you be so sure?

Because giving the Greek population what they wanted sank them.

228 Gus  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 6:06:47pm

re: #224 Mr Pancakes

Address please?

Gus 802
c/o Central Bank of Nigeria
Lagos, Nigeria
01-658-21-2658

229 researchok  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 6:07:33pm

re: #228 Gus 802

Gus 802
c/o Central Bank of Nigeria
Lagos, Nigeria
01-658-21-2658

Do you take gold coin?

230 engineer cat  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 6:07:38pm

re: #227 researchok

Because giving the Greek population what they wanted sank them.

they are more sunk now

experiment: fail

231 Mr Pancakes  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 6:08:20pm

re: #228 Gus 802

Gus 802
c/o Central Bank of Nigeria
Lagos, Nigeria
01-658-21-2658

I already sent a check to that address. You should have gotten it by now.

232 Digital Display  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 6:08:35pm

re: #229 researchok

Do you take gold coin?

Only survival seeds

233 researchok  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 6:08:38pm

re: #230 engineer dog

they are more sunk now

experiment: fail

I disagree.

What we see now was inevitable.

They counted on the EU to bail them out- and that just prolonged the inevitable.

234 Gus  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 6:09:21pm

re: #231 Mr Pancakes

I already sent a check to that address. You should have gotten it by now.

Damn. I'm going to have to have a talk with Dr Altaka Yurmani.

//

235 researchok  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 6:09:57pm

re: #234 Gus 802

Damn. I'm going to have to have a talk with Dr Altaka Yurmani.

//

Or his sister, the Princess.

236 Mr Pancakes  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 6:10:32pm

re: #234 Gus 802

Damn. I'm going to have to have a talk with Dr Altaka Yurmani.

//

No I sent it to Mr. Martin Cook

237 Varek Raith  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 6:11:08pm

BBL.

238 researchok  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 6:11:16pm

re: #236 Mr Pancakes

No I sent it to Mr. Martin Cook

You should have sent it to DR Martin Cook

239 engineer cat  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 6:11:33pm

re: #233 researchok

I disagree.

What we see now was inevitable.

They counted on the EU to bail them out- and that just prolonged the inevitable.

what kind of inevitable do you foresee for the future under the current course?

240 Gus  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 6:12:54pm

re: #235 researchok

Or his sister, the Princess.

Sending money to African nations has always been a sure bet -- even under normal circumstances. It's been working after all these years hasn't it?

//

241 Stanghazi  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 6:13:12pm

re: #218 Killgore Trout

Glenn Beck Retells Personal Story Of ‘Cultural Elite’ Who Mocked Him In NY Park

Beck tells is tale of mockery and scorn again on TV.

I so wish I had been there. I would've yelled: "HEY! IT'S FATHER COUGHLIN!!"

242 Decatur Deb  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 6:13:43pm

re: #239 engineer dog

what kind of inevitable do you foresee for the future under the current course?

Heat Death of the Universe

[Link: www.google.com...]

243 darthstar  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 6:13:46pm

re: #223 Gus 802

No. Just send all your money to me.

After that I will guarantee you eternal salvation.

//

I guarantee eternal salvation for only half your money!

244 Obdicut  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 6:13:47pm

re: #215 researchok

There's no such thing as a workable austerity program.

There's plenty of room for wise spending-- like spending on food stamps, which gives back into the economy, or spending on science research, which likewise feeds back into the economy. There's plenty of room for spending money well and wisely, but simply cutting back spending in the middle of a recession is, and always will be, foolish.

Many, unfortunately, never ask themselves what happens next. Say you cut, as we have here in the US, the food for mothers with children program. What actually happens? What is the real result?

The government saves the cost of the program. The mothers then burden it, or their parents do, or whoever else can. Mostly, of course, they can't, and so the food dollar is stretched ever more. Less food is bought-- which means less money goes to the local grocery, less money goes to the farmer. She may skimp on something else-- cell phone service that helps her find work or organize child care, clothes for the kids, a dentist visit, a doctor's visit. The children, slightly malnourished, may learn a little slower, might be more tired in class, may develop problems that require medical attention down the road.

Meanwhile, the government has saved the cost of that program; but that same government is going to inherit those problems. The problems of the very poor are always going to be the problems of the government. The problem does not disappear when the spending does. The problem remains.

There's this odd illusion that the government spends lots of money in this profligate fashion, and that that's what we're cutting. The truth is that to identify actual wasteful spending is a time-consuming and, ironically, costly job. So when spending is cut, it tends to be in broad swathes-- education, care for the elderly, environmental enforcement-- and the results of those cuts are very often costs down the line.

Government should not follow the whim of the market; government should be a bulwark against the boom and bust cycle. What we're seeing now is this odd philosophy that the government should only spend when the economy is booming-- when such spending is least needed. It's a rather bizarre inversion.

245 Digital Display  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 6:13:49pm

re: #233 researchok

I disagree.

What we see now was inevitable.

They counted on the EU to bail them out- and that just prolonged the inevitable.

Don't you think joining the EU and using their money really screwed them?
Tied to such a high currency exposed the lack of productivity and competition. Perhaps staying within the economy that suited the unique people in Greece would have been better...

246 researchok  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 6:14:51pm

re: #239 engineer dog

what kind of inevitable do you foresee for the future under the current course?

Germany and France will bail Greece out as long s they stick to a responsible spending and austerity plan.

Looks good so far- Papandereou survived a non confidence motion, the Greek Central Bank is on board and the rich realize they have more to lose if they don't pay their taxes.

They won't cut back on the social benefits right away, but there will be spending cuts.

IMO, they need to spend even more on Tourism.

247 darthstar  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 6:15:35pm

re: #241 Stanley Sea

I so wish I had been there. I would've yelled: "HEY! IT'S FATHER COUGHLIN!!"

I would have sat down, put on my best racist act, and recorded a conversation with him.

248 austin_blue  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 6:16:07pm

re: #183 Slumbering Behemoth

Heh. ABC World News just commented on Bachmann "embracing the revisionist history of the Tea Party", following with a clip on the John Quincy Adams flap.

This election cycle is going to be nuts. I expect lots of crying about "The Liberal MSM and their sneaky Gotcha! questions".

The thing about Bachmann is that you don't need to ask questions. Just hand her a mic and turn on your recorder.

Gold, I tell ya! Pure journalistic gold!

249 researchok  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 6:16:29pm

re: #240 Gus 802

Sending money to African nations has always been a sure bet -- even under normal circumstances. It's been working after all these years hasn't it?

//

In all seriousness, even African economists aree now calling for an end to the aid

250 Gus  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 6:16:57pm

re: #246 researchok

Germany and France will bail Greece out as long s they stick to a responsible spending and austerity plan.

Looks good so far- Papandereou survived a non confidence motion, the Greek Central Bank is on board and the rich realize they have more to lose if they don't pay their taxes.

They won't cut back on the social benefits right away, but there will be spending cuts.

IMO, they need to spend even more on Tourism.

They raise their retirement age yet?

251 Gus  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 6:18:22pm

Must have been nice. Spend all your life doing squat and then retire at around 55 years old and collect a government pension. This after paying no taxes.

252 Mr Pancakes  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 6:20:11pm

Ohh ohh new thread ------>

253 engineer cat  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 6:20:23pm

re: #244 Obdicut

rezackly

thinking of the whole thing as a budget issue is missing the entire point

254 Daniel Ballard  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 6:20:31pm

re: #244 Obdicut

There's no such thing as a workable austerity program.

Where I disagree with you is where when revenues go up and safety nets (along with other spending) increases run into that point where revenues decline as they must from time to time.

If spending can not adjust accordingly, then servicing the debt eats monies otherwise available for safety nets etc. If I read you right you are saying safety net spending can never be reduced only maintained or expanded. Debt has consequences proportionate to the size of the debt.

255 Gus  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 6:20:39pm

Everyone ran into their kitchens to get a snack.

256 researchok  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 6:21:13pm

re: #250 Gus 802

They raise their retirement age yet?

I think so, though there is noise about repealing it.

Think about- immigrants came to here, didn't speak the language and busted their butts in real manual labor jobs, without today's technology.

And now people are complaining they have to work another two years before sucking on the govt tit.

257 engineer cat  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 6:23:33pm

re: #254 Rightwingconspirator

Where I disagree with you is where when revenues go up and safety nets (along with other spending) increases run into that point where revenues decline as they must from time to time.

If spending can not adjust accordingly, then servicing the debt eats monies otherwise available for safety nets etc. If I read you right you are saying safety net spending can never be reduced only maintained or expanded. Debt has consequences proportionate to the size of the debt.

money doesn't disappear when governments spend it

economies prosper when money moves around quickly, not when budgets are balanced

258 researchok  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 6:24:12pm

re: #244 Obdicut

There's no such thing as a workable austerity program.

There's plenty of room for wise spending-- like spending on food stamps, which gives back into the economy, or spending on science research, which likewise feeds back into the economy. There's plenty of room for spending money well and wisely, but simply cutting back spending in the middle of a recession is, and always will be, foolish.

Many, unfortunately, never ask themselves what happens next. Say you cut, as we have here in the US, the food for mothers with children program. What actually happens? What is the real result?

The government saves the cost of the program. The mothers then burden it, or their parents do, or whoever else can. Mostly, of course, they can't, and so the food dollar is stretched ever more. Less food is bought-- which means less money goes to the local grocery, less money goes to the farmer. She may skimp on something else-- cell phone service that helps her find work or organize child care, clothes for the kids, a dentist visit, a doctor's visit. The children, slightly malnourished, may learn a little slower, might be more tired in class, may develop problems that require medical attention down the road.

Meanwhile, the government has saved the cost of that program; but that same government is going to inherit those problems. The problems of the very poor are always going to be the problems of the government. The problem does not disappear when the spending does. The problem remains.

There's this odd illusion that the government spends lots of money in this profligate fashion, and that that's what we're cutting. The truth is that to identify actual wasteful spending is a time-consuming and, ironically, costly job. So when spending is cut, it tends to be in broad swathes-- education, care for the elderly, environmental enforcement-- and the results of those cuts are very often costs down the line.

Government should not follow the whim of the market; government should be a bulwark against the boom and bust cycle. What we're seeing now is this odd philosophy that the government should only spend when the economy is booming-- when such spending is least needed. It's a rather bizarre inversion.

France and Germany and other European countries have cut spending. Austerity, couples with wise spending, is the only permanent solution to this debt crisis.

We have to earn more than we spend.

259 Obdicut  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 6:24:18pm

re: #254 Rightwingconspirator

Where I disagree with you is where when revenues go up and safety nets (along with other spending) increases run into that point where revenues decline as they must from time to time.

If spending can not adjust accordingly, then servicing the debt eats monies otherwise available for safety nets etc. If I read you right you are saying safety net spending can never be reduced only maintained or expanded. Debt has consequences proportionate to the size of the debt.

Debt has the consequence of having to pay off that debt. Cutting spending on safety net type spending has the consequence of costs down the line. It's pretty much six of one and half a dozen of the other.

I'm also not saying that spending on safety nets can never decline; when the economy is booming, we can spend a lot less on unemployment, on welfare, on food stamps, etc.

The problem is that we tend to spend like madmen when the economy is booming-- and we often spend inefficiently. I'm saying that government spending should go up when the economy slows, and go down when the economy is ticking along nicely.

Of course, all this is moot in the current environment, when what we need to do is shitloads of spending on combating AGW.

260 researchok  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 6:24:56pm

re: #257 engineer dog

money doesn't disappear when governments spend it

economies prosper when money moves around quickly, not when budgets are balanced

So why is Clinton praised for a balanced budget? He ought to be vilified.

261 Obdicut  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 6:25:01pm

re: #258 researchok

You need to earn more than you spend over the long term, not every year. That was my entire point. Maybe read my post again, I don't know.

I'm headed out.

262 Gus  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 6:25:19pm

Gotta run. BBIAB or later later.

263 recusancy  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 6:26:04pm

re: #256 researchok

I think so, though there is noise about repealing it.

Think about- immigrants came to here, didn't speak the language and busted their butts in real manual labor jobs, without today's technology.

And now people are complaining they have to work another two years before sucking on the govt tit.

They paid into that government tit. It's their money.

264 researchok  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 6:27:29pm

re: #261 Obdicut

You need to earn more than you spend over the long term, not every year. That was my entire point. Maybe read my post again, I don't know.

I'm headed out.

You need to live within your means all the time.

With the exception of mortgages, education and health care (debts we ought to have), we do not need to spend like drunken sailors.

265 engineer cat  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 6:28:41pm

re: #260 researchok

So why is Clinton praised for a balanced budget? He ought to be vilified.

i didn't say balanced budgets were bad, did I?

266 recusancy  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 6:29:07pm

re: #264 researchok

You need to live within your means all the time.

With the exception of mortgages, education and health care (debts we ought to have), we do not need to spend like drunken sailors.

Are you talking government or citizens?

267 researchok  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 6:29:53pm

re: #263 recusancy

They paid into that government tit. It's their money.


Retirees take out far more than they put in. Raising the retirement age is a reality both parties are beginning to deal with.

Further, the govt has been borrowing that SS money, making the debt even higher.

We can't keep printing money.

268 researchok  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 6:32:17pm

re: #266 recusancy

Are you talking government or citizens?

Mostly citizens (and we have to begin saving again, Visa and MasterCard notwithstanding), but even government has to behave responsibly.

In Canada, you need 20%-30% down to buy a home.

Needless to say, their foreclosure rate is much lower than ours.

269 engineer cat  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 6:32:57pm

re: #260 researchok

So why is Clinton praised for a balanced budget? He ought to be vilified.

also, recall that the balanced bugets resulted from tax increases and some budget cutting, followed by economic expansion. this showed that large tax cuts were not incompatible with economic expansion, no matter how loudly republicans like to assert the opposite, and the balanced budget resulted mostly from the economic expansion and the tax increases, and very little from the budget cuts, which things are a matter of record and not theory

in greece things are not happening in this order

270 researchok  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 6:34:32pm

re: #265 engineer dog

i didn't say balanced budgets were bad, did I?

No, you did not- but you implied spending and debt were better.

See this on Behavioral Economics.

Fascinating stuff.

271 engineer cat  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 6:35:26pm

re: #264 researchok

You need to live within your means all the time

it is within my means to borrow an amount considerably more than my annual gross income because i can afford to service the debt - my mortgage. it is within my means

the u.s. government does the same thing

272 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 6:35:35pm

This post is just intended to deal with a Firefox error.

273 researchok  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 6:35:57pm

re: #269 engineer dog

also, recall that the balanced bugets resulted from tax increases and some budget cutting, followed by economic expansion. this showed that large tax cuts were not incompatible with economic expansion, no matter how loudly republicans like to assert the opposite, and the balanced budget resulted mostly from the economic expansion and the tax increases, and very little from the budget cuts, which things are a matter of record and not theory

in greece things are not happening in this order

EXACTLY.

There is no magic bullet- economic health comes about as the result of a multi faceted approach- 'tax increases and some budget cutting, followed by economic expansion'.

On this we are on the same page

274 engineer cat  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 6:36:04pm

re: #270 researchok

No, you did not- but you implied spending and debt were better.

no, i didn't

275 engineer cat  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 6:36:31pm

re: #273 researchok

EXACTLY.

There is no magic bullet- economic health comes about as the result of a multi faceted approach- 'tax increases and some budget cutting, followed by economic expansion'.

On this we are on the same page

in greece, the cart is before the horse

276 researchok  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 6:37:52pm

re: #271 engineer dog

it is within my means to borrow an amount considerably more than my annual gross income because i can afford to service the debt - my mortgage. it is within my means

the u.s. government does the same thing

Mortgage spending, education spending and even healthcare spending are considered investments.

Credit to lease a Mercedes on a 35k a year salery is not.

277 recusancy  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 6:39:20pm

re: #276 researchok

Mortgage spending, education spending and even healthcare spending are considered investments.

Credit to lease a Mercedes on a 35k a year salery is not.

What does the government do that is analogous to getting a mercedes?

278 recusancy  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 6:39:53pm

re: #277 recusancy

What does the government do that is analogous to getting a mercedes?

Because that's what we are talking about. Government. Not individuals. Or at least I thought we were.

279 researchok  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 6:41:49pm

re: #277 recusancy

What does the government do that is analogous to getting a mercedes?

Waste, for one thing.

There is a reason the GAO and CBO exist.

280 researchok  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 6:42:22pm

re: #275 engineer dog

in greece, the cart is before the horse

Absolutely.

281 recusancy  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 6:43:07pm

re: #279 researchok

Waste, for one thing.

There is a reason the GAO and CBO exist.

Can you possibly be a little more specific?

282 researchok  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 6:46:14pm

re: #281 recusancy

Can you possibly be a little more specific?

Spending oversight committees for every single department, fraud investigation arm of various agencies, 'checking the numbers' (CBO), ever expanding whistle blower programs, DoD programs that are unwanted, etc, ad infinitum.

283 recusancy  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 6:50:10pm

re: #282 researchok

Spending oversight committees for every single department, fraud investigation arm of various agencies, 'checking the numbers' (CBO), ever expanding whistle blower programs, DoD programs that are unwanted, etc, ad infinitum.

So you want to take out oversight and whistle blowers and fraud investigation? I thought you wanted things to get better?

284 researchok  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 6:52:31pm

re: #283 recusancy

So you want to take out oversight and whistle blowers and fraud investigation? I thought you wanted things to get better?

No, I want to keep and expand them.

285 sagehen  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 6:53:21pm

re: #264 researchok

You need to live within your means all the time.

With the exception of mortgages, education and health care (debts we ought to have), we do not need to spend like drunken sailors.

And yet "mortgages" (infrastructure), education and healch care (medicare) are exactly the spending that todays GOP wants to skimp on.

286 recusancy  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 6:59:18pm

re: #284 researchok

No, I want to keep and expand them.

Oh. My question was can you be more specific on what waste you want to get rid of? Where's the mercedes?

287 engineer cat  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 7:06:21pm

more austerity fail:

More than 10,000 retail jobs face the axe as the British high street faces one of its most painful bouts of contraction since the second world war amid the biggest squeeze on household budgets for decades.

As the government's austerity measures take hold, experts warned that the number of retailers going bust would continue to rise this year with a number of household names facing insolvency.

288 CarleeCork  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 8:32:54pm

re: #51 SpaceJesus

obama should have said, "fuck this. bringing afghanistan into the 20th-21st century is either prohibitively expensive or impossible. we're out." then knocked something over and walked away.


And what will the unemployment rate look like when all the deployed men and women come home? You don't really think our government will put them to work on our infrastructure do you?

Cut taxes, that'll create jobs.

blah, blah, blah..................

289 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Tue, Jun 28, 2011 8:36:55pm

re: #218 Killgore Trout

Fuckin' Jimmah and Ice hangin' out in Central Park again?


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Cardboard Cory - The Documentary [VIDEO] Ready to take action? Visit paybackproject.org to get started. Senator Cory Gardner (R-CO) is beholden to wealthy right wing special interests, not his constituents. Cory Gardner is afraid of his constituents, unless it's a tightly controlled scripted event. He ...
teleskiguy
11 hours, 8 minutes ago
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Harris, Parton, Ronstadt on Late Show, March 24, 1999 (Full, Stereo) "Trio II" was recorded in 1994 but not released until 1999, when Emmylou Harris, Dolly Parton, and Linda Ronstadt appeared on Late Show to perform Neil Young's "After the Gold Rush." The Glass Harmonica (or Armonica) was played by ...
Thanos
2 days, 2 hours ago
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Ratched You deserve someone to show you mercy. From the creator of American Horror Story, witness the origin of one of the world's most iconic characters, Nurse Ratched. Sarah Paulson stars in Ratched, coming to Netflix on September 18. SUBSCRIBE: ...
Thanos
3 days, 1 hour ago
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The Jaded Hearts Club - Reach Out I’ll Be There (Official Video) The Official Video for Reach Out I'll Be There by The Jaded Hearts Club. The new album You've Always Been Here is out 2 October, pre-order now: jadedhearts.lnk.to Listen to We'll Meet Again / Reach Out I'll Be There: ...
Thanos
3 days, 2 hours ago
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Raised by Wolves — New Ridley Scott Television Series Mother was programmed to protect everyone after Earth had been destroyed. When the big bad wolf shows up, she is the one we must trust. Subscribe: bit.ly Be the first to know more:HBO Max: hbom.axLike HBO Max on Facebook: ...
Thanos
5 days, 1 hour ago
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Black Pumas - Confines (Official Live Session With String Quartet) “Confines (Live in Studio)” is available now to stream/download. It is from the deluxe edition of the Black Pumas’ debut album which will be released digitally August 28 and physically October 9. Pre-order in 2xLP, 2xCD and digital formats: ...
Thanos
6 days, 22 hours ago
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Orville Peck - Smalltown Boy (Official Audio) Official audio for Orville Peck’s cover of "Smalltown Boy" by Bronski Beat out now: orvillepeck.lnk.to Pre-save / Pre-add Orville's new EP Show Pony here: orvillepeck.lnk.to Amazon - orvillepeck.lnk.toApple Music - orvillepeck.lnk.toiTunes - orvillepeck.lnk.toSoundcloud -  orvillepeck.lnk.toSpotify - orvillepeck.lnk.toYouTube Music - orvillepeck.lnk.toYouTube -  orvillepeck.lnk.to Follow Orville PeckFacebook - facebook.comInstagram - instagram.comTwitter - @orvillepeck orvillepeck.com LyricsTo ...
Thanos
1 week ago
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Norah Jones - to Live "To Live" is taken from Norah's newest album 'Pick Me Up Off The Floor,' out now and available to stream/download here: norahjones.lnk.to Connect with Norah:norahjones.cominstagram.comfacebook.com@NorahJones See Norah live: norahjones.com Music video by Norah Jones performing To Live. © 2020 ...
Thanos
1 week, 4 days ago
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Future Islands - for Sure (Official Video) 'For Sure' by Future Islands, out now on all platforms: futureislands.ffm.to A Film by Samuel Jerome MasonFinishing by John HarrisonRendered with GarageFarmSpecial Thanks to Anna, Jemima, Mike, Willy, Saad, Eric, Arsen Perish the painI was impoverishedThose ties that windAnd ...
Thanos
1 week, 4 days ago
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Andrew McMahon in the Wilderness - Get on My Wave I wrote and produced “Get On My Wave” with Kyle “King Tuff” Thomas the day we met last summer. I’ve struggled with releasing the song during the pandemic because it felt too happy; detached from the tumult of our ...
Thanos
1 week, 4 days ago
Views: 810 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 0
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