Ted Cruz Demands John F. Kerry’s Resignation for Using the Word “Apartheid”

Yes, folks, it’s another fake controversy

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Sen. Ted Cruz, always first out of the demagogue’s gate, is demanding that Secretary of State John F. Kerry resign following his private remarks to a group of world leaders that if Israel tried to impose a one-state solution on the Palestinian areas, it would risk becoming an “apartheid state.”

“A two-state solution will be clearly underscored as the only real alternative. Because a unitary state winds up either being an apartheid state with second-class citizens—or it ends up being a state that destroys the capacity of Israel to be a Jewish state,” Kerry told the group of senior officials and experts from the U.S., Western Europe, Russia, and Japan. “Once you put that frame in your mind, that reality, which is the bottom line, you understand how imperative it is to get to the two-state solution, which both leaders, even yesterday, said they remain deeply committed to.”

I’m not Kerry’s biggest fan, honestly, but I don’t see anything wrong with what he said. It seems self-evident that the only way to impose a one-state solution on the Palestinians areas would be to institute something like apartheid. Maybe Kerry was unusually blunt, but he was correct; and it seems to me it’s the people who promote the idea of annexing the West Bank who are nuts and should be marginalized — not the people like Kerry who are trying to stop them from pushing things to a horrible place.

UPDATE at 4/28/14 3:47:33 pm

Other people who have used the dreaded “A” word to warn about the collapse of a two-state solution: former Israeli Defense Minister Ehud Barak and former Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert.

Olmert to Haaretz: Two-state solution, or Israel is done for

“If the day comes when the two-state solution collapses, and we face a South African-style struggle for equal voting rights (also for the Palestinians in the territories), then, as soon as that happens, the State of Israel is finished,” Prime Minister Ehud Olmert told Haaretz Wednesday, the day the Annapolis conference ended in an agreement to try to reach a Mideast peace settlement by the end of 2008.

“The Jewish organizations, which were our power base in America, will be the first to come out against us,” Olmert said, “because they will say they cannot support a state that does not support democracy and equal voting rights for all its residents.”

Barak: make peace with Palestinians or face apartheid

As long as in this territory west of the Jordan river there is only one political entity called Israel it is going to be either non-Jewish, or non-democratic,” Barak said. “If this bloc of millions of ­Palestinians cannot vote, that will be an apartheid state.”

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436 comments

1 Kragar  Apr 28, 2014 3:40:05pm

So when is Cruz resigning for shutting down the Government?

2 Varek Raith  Apr 28, 2014 3:41:00pm

Stop casting aspirations on his asparagus!

Edit- Derp, wrong crazy.

3 Amory Blaine  Apr 28, 2014 3:44:12pm

Apartheid is a big word. He should stick to Dr. Seuss.

4 jaunte  Apr 28, 2014 3:44:31pm

“Human wrecking ball.”

He would know.

5 Killgore Trout  Apr 28, 2014 3:45:09pm

I’m not personally offended either but it’s obvious the purpose of the comment was to get some kind of reaction. I’m not sure why the White House chose to do it but it was a conscious decision. Kerry shouldn’t resign because he delivered the message the White House wanted. I don’t know what it was supposed to accomplish but Kerry was doing his job here.

6 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Apr 28, 2014 3:45:21pm

What Kerry has said has been said by mainstream Israeli politicians.

7 Targetpractice  Apr 28, 2014 3:45:38pm

re: #2 Varek Raith

Stop casting aspirations on his asparagus!

No no, you’re confusing Ted with that other titan of intellect, Louie GOHMERT!

8 Varek Raith  Apr 28, 2014 3:46:06pm

re: #7 Targetpractice

No no, you’re confusing Ted with that other titan of intellect, Louie GOHMERT!

Well shit.
Ah well.

9 GeneJockey  Apr 28, 2014 3:46:33pm

re: #1 Kragar

So when is Cruz resigning for shutting down the Government?

It wasn’t Cruz who shut down the Government. It was all those who didn’t acquiesce to his extortion. Just like how Torquemada didn’t torture anyone, because they could have made it stop anytime by recanting their heresy.
//////

However, I did know a Wingnut who told me that none of the Gitmo inmates were tortured because they could have stopped it anytime by telling their interrogators what they wanted to know.

You could have heard my jaw drop a mile away.

And the weird thing is, this guy is a really nice guy. Funny, generous, great company around a campfire, let me hunt his best spot and gave me half the meat from a deer when I still couldn’t connect. Also a bigot and a racist.

10 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Apr 28, 2014 3:47:09pm

re: #5 Killgore Trout

I’m not personally offended either but it’s obvious the purpose of the comment was to get some kind of reaction.

The purpose of the comment was the same as when Barak an Olmert said it: To affirm that Israel does not want apartheid, so it needs a two-state solution.

Seriously, what is hard to understand about this? Do you get why the Israelis said it, or are you just going to strenuously ignore that they did?

11 Varek Raith  Apr 28, 2014 3:47:46pm

Gee, you know you’re in trouble when all the crazies start to sound like GOHMERT! in your mind.

:/

12 Backwoods_Sleuth  Apr 28, 2014 3:47:47pm
13 GeneJockey  Apr 28, 2014 3:48:20pm

re: #5 Killgore Trout

I’m not personally offended either but it’s obvious the purpose of the comment was to get some kind of reaction. I’m not sure why the White House chose to do it but it was a conscious decision. Kerry shouldn’t resign because he delivered the message the White House wanted. I don’t know what it was supposed to accomplish but Kerry was doing his job here.

I suspect the purpose was to state the obvious, and I can’t understand why something that’s undeniably true is an issue.

14 Killgore Trout  Apr 28, 2014 3:48:26pm

The trilateral commission did apologize to Kerry
John Kerry’s private remarks allegedly taped by Daily Beast reporter

In a letter to Sec. Kerry, obtained by POLITICO, Nye expressed “my deep apology and dismay that a reporter form The Daily Beast, Josh Rogin, somehow sneaked into the meeting room in which you were speaking to the Commission this past Friday.”

“He was not invited,” Nye wrote. “Althought how Mr. Rogin slipped past both Commission staff and Diplomatic Security is unclear to me, we have confirmed that he indeed was present and apparently recorded the session.”

15 GeneJockey  Apr 28, 2014 3:50:06pm

re: #10 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

The purpose of the comment was the same as when Barak an Olmert said it: To affirm that Israel does not want apartheid, so it needs a two-state solution.

Seriously, what is hard to understand about this? Do you get why the Israelis said it, or are you just going to strenuously ignore that they did?

Now there’s an adverb one doesn’t generally expect to find modifying that verb.

16 Varek Raith  Apr 28, 2014 3:50:07pm

re: #13 GeneJockey

I suspect the purpose was to state the obvious, and I can’t understand why something that’s undeniably true is an issue.

Because he needs to be outraged! at something.

17 CuriousLurker  Apr 28, 2014 3:54:13pm

re: #16 Varek Raith

Because he needs to be outraged! at something.

It’s equally interesting/telling to note what people aren’t outraged by.

18 Justanotherhuman  Apr 28, 2014 3:54:23pm

re: #9 GeneJockey

It wasn’t Cruz who shut down the Government. It was all those who didn’t acquiesce to his extortion. Just like how Torquemada didn’t torture anyone, because they could have made it stop anytime by recanting their heresy.
//////

However, I did know a Wingnut who told me that none of the Gitmo inmates were tortured because they could have stopped it anytime by telling their interrogators what they wanted to know.

You could have heard my jaw drop a mile away.

And the weird thing is, this guy is a really nice guy. Funny, generous, great company around a campfire, let me hunt his best spot and gave me half the meat from a deer when I still couldn’t connect. Also a bigot and a racist.

That’s exactly the way some people are. Very nice to you, generous, kind. I know plenty of folks like that.

But they’re only that way if you’re “their kind of people”.

19 Killgore Trout  Apr 28, 2014 3:54:46pm

re: #13 GeneJockey

I suspect the purpose was to state the obvious, and I can’t understand why something that’s undeniably true is an issue.

I’ll assume you’re being genuine in not understanding so I’ll explain. It’s a bit like criticism of the black community. If a black person criticizes lack of employment, gangs, and lack of family structure it’s an expectable internal criticism. If a rich white Republican makes the same points it will be taken as offensive. That’s just the way it is.
Also, the apartheid comment gives the anti-Israel/”Israel-first” accusers motivation to step up rhetoric. It’s a bit like when a while back when Kerry mentioned the BDS movement. It gives hope to some really hateful people that their views may become mainstream.

20 thedopefishlives  Apr 28, 2014 3:55:43pm

Evening Lizardim. I have to say this and get it off my chest: There is nothing anyone on the left can say that will cause the right wing not to complain. Barack Obama could stand up tomorrow, announce that Ted Cruz is the best thing since sliced bread, and the Republicans would find something to throw a bitchfit about. And to be honest, I’m sick of it and that’s why I’m not voting for them anymore. How go things among the lizardfolk?

21 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Apr 28, 2014 3:56:40pm

re: #19 Killgore Trout

He didn’t criticize Israel. He said Israel doesn’t want to become apartheid: he positioned apartheid as a future that Israel wanted to avoid.

You cannot deal with this, and so you pretend he said something different, just like the loons at Town Hall.

By making outrage about something like this, you are helping to damage US-Israel relations, just like all the people who have yammered on about how bad Obama is for Israel even though his positions have been largely identical to his predecessors.

22 Justanotherhuman  Apr 28, 2014 3:57:02pm

Large and extremely dangerous tornado near Brownsville, Miss., moving northeast - @stormchaser4850
read more on kamala.cod.edu

23 Backwoods_Sleuth  Apr 28, 2014 3:58:17pm
24 Pie-onist Overlord  Apr 28, 2014 3:59:59pm

Dudebros are all over it like a cheap suit.

25 Pie-onist Overlord  Apr 28, 2014 4:00:36pm

It really sucks when somebody that I follow & have retweeted links to electronicintifada.

26 thedopefishlives  Apr 28, 2014 4:01:05pm

re: #25 Pie-onist Overlord

It really sucks when somebody that I follow & have retweeted links to electronicintifada.

Ouch. That smarts.

27 Randall Gross  Apr 28, 2014 4:02:25pm

Boxer expresses her displeasure with the statement in a classier manner:

politico.com

28 Gus  Apr 28, 2014 4:03:03pm

re: #25 Pie-onist Overlord

It really sucks when somebody that I follow & have retweeted links to electronicintifada.

Kerry apartheid summary:

1. Far-left is pissed off at Kerry because he actually didn’t say “Israel is an apartheid state.”

2. Far-right is pissed off at Kerry because he used the word apartheid and Israel in the same comment.

29 GeneJockey  Apr 28, 2014 4:03:35pm

re: #19 Killgore Trout

I’ll assume you’re being genuine in not understanding so I’ll explain. It’s a bit like criticism of the black community. If a black person criticizes lack of employment, gangs, and lack of family structure it’s an expectable internal criticism. If a rich white Republican makes the same points it will be taken as offensive. That’s just the way it is.
Also, the apartheid comment gives the anti-Israel/”Israel-first” accusers motivation to step up rhetoric. It’s a bit like when a while back when Kerry mentioned the BDS movement. It gives hope to some really hateful people that their views may become mainstream.

I understand why it would be bad if he said Israel IS an apartheid state. That’s not what he said, despite Wingnut bullshit to the contrary. What he said is the plain fact. Absent a Two-State Solution, the only path Israel can take and remain a Jewish state is to become an apartheid state where a majority of its residents have second-class citizenship.

And the black family structure analogy? Horseshit.

30 Varek Raith  Apr 28, 2014 4:04:28pm

re: #27 Randall Gross

Boxer expresses her displeasure with the statement in a classier manner:

politico.com

“Inflammatory rhetoric comparing Israel’s democracy to repugnant apartheid policy is irresponsible, inaccurate & counterproductive.”

THAT’S NOT WHAT HE SAID.
Jesus.

31 Randall Gross  Apr 28, 2014 4:05:14pm

Thoroughly OT:

Bonafide Hate site Gates of Vienna now openly posting manifestos calling for rebellion and civil war.

WARNING: LINK TO HATE SITE

gatesofvienna.net

32 GeneJockey  Apr 28, 2014 4:06:09pm

re: #31 Randall Gross

Thoroughly OT:

Bonafide Hate site Gates of Vienna now openly posting manifestos calling for rebellion and civil war.

WARNING: LINK TO HATE SITE

gatesofvienna.net

What for this time?

33 Gus  Apr 28, 2014 4:06:09pm

Here’s a jpg of Olmert’s and Barak’s previous statement for your use.

34 bratwurst  Apr 28, 2014 4:07:21pm

1) It wasn’t a comment for public consumption

2) There was, in reality, nothing controversial about what he said…just one charged word

3) What is said is absolutely no different from what at least two Israeli PMs have stated publicly

Conclusion: anyone here or elsewhere who is outraged by this is guilty of intellectual dishonesty. Those of us who love Israel, visit Israel and have loved ones in Israel are pretty fucking tired of the country and its conflicts being used as a political football by opportunists or, as we have here, outright trolls. Grow the fuck up already.

35 Randall Gross  Apr 28, 2014 4:07:57pm

re: #32 GeneJockey

They are reposting Mannheimer’s counter-jihad call to resistance manifesto.

36 Gus  Apr 28, 2014 4:08:22pm

Also. That’s Helvetica 65 Medium.

37 gwangung  Apr 28, 2014 4:08:47pm

re: #34 bratwurst

1) It wasn’t a comment for public consumption

Um, isn’t that kinda important?

38 Randall Gross  Apr 28, 2014 4:09:06pm

re: #30 Varek Raith

THAT’S NOT WHAT HE SAID.
Jesus.

Yes, but at least she’s not calling for resignation with her grandstanding on the topic…

39 NJDhockeyfan  Apr 28, 2014 4:09:43pm

AIPAC is not impressed…

40 Shiplord Kirel  Apr 28, 2014 4:09:54pm

Ted has to gin up some outrageous outrage about every other day to keep his name and image in front of his memory-challenged constituents. So far he is doing pretty well at it, and the tea party masses are ecstatic over him, swooning at his every outburst.

Barring proof that Vlad Putin was born in the United States, the GOP probably has its 2016 presidential candidate.

41 Varek Raith  Apr 28, 2014 4:09:55pm

re: #38 Randall Gross

Yes, but at least she’s not calling for resignation with her grandstanding on the topic…

No, but she’s still propagating a lie.

42 kirkspencer  Apr 28, 2014 4:10:49pm

re: #31 Randall Gross

Thoroughly OT:

Bonafide Hate site Gates of Vienna now openly posting manifestos calling for rebellion and civil war.

WARNING: LINK TO HATE SITE

gatesofvienna.net

eh, sorta. It’s a reprint, and it’s Germany.

43 Pie-onist Overlord  Apr 28, 2014 4:11:31pm

Pamela, as usual, ratchets the hysteria to eleventy.

44 Killgore Trout  Apr 28, 2014 4:11:32pm

re: #29 GeneJockey

I understand why it would be bad if he said Israel IS an apartheid state. That’s not what he said, despite Wingnut bullshit to the contrary. What he said is the plain fact. Absent a Two-State Solution, the only path Israel can take and remain a Jewish state is to become an apartheid state where a majority of its residents have second-class citizenship.

And the black family structure analogy? Horseshit.

Also Kerry’s remarks give the Palestinians even less motivation to compromise. Kerry’s remarks will be interpreted as motivation to keep up the terrorism and lack of compromise because ultimately Israel will end up getting the blame and become a world pariah. That may be true but it’s an unhelpful mindset.

45 Randall Gross  Apr 28, 2014 4:11:51pm

re: #41 Varek Raith

No, but she’s still propagating a lie.

…and she’s a politician… n’est ce pas?

46 goddamnedfrank  Apr 28, 2014 4:11:58pm

re: #5 Killgore Trout

I’m not personally offended either but it’s obvious the purpose of the comment was to get some kind of reaction. I’m not sure why the White House chose to do it but it was a conscious decision. Kerry shouldn’t resign because he delivered the message the White House wanted. I don’t know what it was supposed to accomplish but Kerry was doing his job here.

I love the utterly baseless yet totally absolute assertion. Killgore just knows the unknowable. In a week marked almost entirely by the inability of rich old white dude to self edit, you’re 100% positive that this exact language was the White House’s specific intent.

It may be, it may not, but you’re continued hubristic demonstration of massive headwound level arrogance never ceases to amaze.

47 NJDhockeyfan  Apr 28, 2014 4:11:59pm

Neither is NJDC…

48 Backwoods_Sleuth  Apr 28, 2014 4:12:52pm
49 GeneJockey  Apr 28, 2014 4:13:36pm

re: #34 bratwurst

1) It wasn’t a comment for public consumption

2) There was, in reality, nothing controversial about what he said…just one charged word

3) What is said is absolutely no different from what at least two Israeli PMs have stated publicly

Conclusion: anyone here or elsewhere who is outraged by this is guilty of intellectual dishonesty. Those of us who love Israel, visit Israel and have loved ones in Israel are pretty fucking tired of the country and its conflicts being used as a political football by opportunists or, as we have here, outright trolls. Grow the fuck up already.

I must confess I was astonished when Michele Bachmann came out and SAID how disappointed she was in American Jews for not buying into the Right Wing lies about Obama and Israel, and for not voting for her and the other folks who only want a strong Israel to trigger the end times when Teh Juice will be so much kindling for the bonfire of Revelation.

Oh, of course, she didn’t put it quite like that

50 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Apr 28, 2014 4:13:57pm

re: #44 Killgore Trout

Also Kerry’s remarks give the Palestinians even less motivation to compromise. Kerry’s remarks will be interpreted as motivation to keep up the terrorism and lack of compromise because ultimately Israel will end up getting the blame and become a world pariah. That may be true but it’s an unhelpful mindset.

This is an assumption on your part that Israel would enact apartheid, you realize.

I don’t think israel would.

Can you explain why you think Israel would become apartheid, and how your assumption here that they wouldn’t isn’t a zillion times worse that Kerry saying they wouldn’t?

You’re really stepping all over your own dick here. It’s embarrassing.

51 GeneJockey  Apr 28, 2014 4:14:41pm

re: #44 Killgore Trout

Also Kerry’s remarks give the Palestinians even less motivation to compromise. Kerry’s remarks will be interpreted as motivation to keep up the terrorism and lack of compromise because ultimately Israel will end up getting the blame and become a world pariah. That may be true but it’s an unhelpful mindset.

So, you prefer an unhelpful lie? Good to know.

52 Killgore Trout  Apr 28, 2014 4:15:08pm

re: #39 NJDhockeyfan

AIPAC is not impressed…

[Embedded content]

No surprise there. I’m still at a loss to explain the White House’s motivation but maybe it’s signaling a shift in domestic politics. In the past both parties have addressed AIPAC and support for Israel has been as obligatory as god and guns in American politics. Maybe the Dems are deciding that they’ll no longer participate in the Israel thing. I don’t think the liberal/progressive base would be bothered by such a move.

53 Varek Raith  Apr 28, 2014 4:15:18pm

re: #39 NJDhockeyfan

AIPAC is not impressed…

[Embedded content]

Then Olmert and Barak should apologize too, right?
They’ve said that same thing in the past.

54 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Apr 28, 2014 4:15:21pm

When talking about why a one-state solution is bad, Kerry should have just coughed meaningfully, I guess.

55 thedopefishlives  Apr 28, 2014 4:15:45pm

re: #43 Pie-onist Overlord

Pamela, as usual, ratchets the hysteria to eleventy.

[Embedded content]

Derpus Maximus.

56 klys  Apr 28, 2014 4:15:47pm

re: #51 GeneJockey

So, you prefer an unhelpful lie? Good to know.

I’m trying to figure out how Kerry saying it encourages the Palestinians to continue with terrorism but this wasn’t the case when said by Israeli officials, as quoted above?

57 Gus  Apr 28, 2014 4:16:18pm

re: #47 NJDhockeyfan

Neither is NJDC…

[Embedded content]

Kerry should not apologize.

58 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Apr 28, 2014 4:16:37pm

re: #52 Killgore Trout

From a single comment by Kerry that Israel would reject an apartheid future, you’re deriving that it’s possible the Democrats—the party that the majority of Jews belong to—“are deciding that they’ll no longer participate in the Israel thing.”

That’s that patented Killgore logic.

59 Killgore Trout  Apr 28, 2014 4:17:13pm

re: #47 NJDhockeyfan

Neither is NJDC…

[Embedded content]

hmmm.

60 goddamnedfrank  Apr 28, 2014 4:18:14pm

re: #52 Killgore Trout

No surprise there. I’m still at a loss to explain the White House’s motivation but maybe it’s signaling a shift in domestic politics.

But you’re 100% sure that language was an intentional decision on the White House’s part. Yesterday you even cited the closed door nature of the meeting as proof that this was intended to represent official public policy.

Do you ever sprain anything making these counter intuitive leaps of logic?

61 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Apr 28, 2014 4:18:22pm

“A one state solution is undesirable because it would only be possible with either the essential destruction of Israel or, well, some other things I won’t go into here, because god forbid I basically quote Israelis on this subject, that’d be just horrible.”

Annexing the West Bank is a fucking terrible idea, and it needs to be spoken against.

62 Targetpractice  Apr 28, 2014 4:18:36pm

Is this another one of those instances in diplomacy where everybody knows the truth, but it must not be spoken aloud lest one or more parties takes umbrage?

63 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Apr 28, 2014 4:19:18pm

re: #62 Targetpractice

Is this another one of those instances in diplomacy where everybody knows the truth, but it must not be spoken aloud lest one or more parties takes umbrage?

No, this is a truth that gets spoken aloud quite a bit. Israel doesn’t want to be an apartheid state, and that’s one reason a one-state solution isn’t possible.

64 Gus  Apr 28, 2014 4:19:29pm

re: #61 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

“A one state solution is undesirable because it would only be possible with either the essential destruction of Israel or, well, some other things I won’t go into here, because god forbid I basically quote Israelis on this subject, that’d be just horrible.”

Annexing the West Bank is a fucking terrible idea, and it needs to be spoken against.

Bennett calls to annex 60 percent of West Bank
Reviving campaign platform, Jewish Home party leader says Palestinians in areas claimed by Israel should get citizenship

Read more: Bennett calls to annex 60 percent of West Bank | The Times of Israel timesofisrael.com
Follow us: @timesofisrael on Twitter | timesofisrael on Facebook

65 Varek Raith  Apr 28, 2014 4:19:59pm

I give up.
KT just openly ignores facts and skips by posts that would have him respond in any meaningful way.

66 GeneJockey  Apr 28, 2014 4:20:25pm

re: #61 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

“A one state solution is undesirable because it would only be possible with either the essential destruction of Israel or, well, some other things I won’t go into here, because god forbid I basically quote Israelis on this subject, that’d be just horrible.”

Annexing the West Bank is a fucking terrible idea, and it needs to be spoken against.

Still too accurate:

“The one state solution is undesirable because…well, YOU know.”

67 Targetpractice  Apr 28, 2014 4:20:26pm

re: #65 Varek Raith

I give up.
KT just openly ignores facts and skips by posts that would have him respond in any meaningful way.

In other words, it’s a day ending in “day.”

68 GeneJockey  Apr 28, 2014 4:21:45pm

re: #62 Targetpractice

Is this another one of those instances in diplomacy where everybody knows the truth, but it must not be spoken aloud lest one or more parties takes umbrage?

“Which ‘He Who Must Not Be Named do you mean?”

“I can’t say. I’d have to use his name!”

69 bratwurst  Apr 28, 2014 4:22:00pm

re: #58 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

From a single comment by Kerry that Israel would reject an apartheid future, you’re deriving that it’s possible the Democrats—the party that the majority of Jews belong to—“are deciding that they’ll no longer participate in the Israel thing.”

That’s that patented Killgore logic.

And he doesn’t think “the liberal/progressive base would be bothered by such a move.”

Don’t forget the whipped bullshit on top of his bullshit sundae!

70 thedopefishlives  Apr 28, 2014 4:22:36pm

re: #68 GeneJockey

“Which ‘He Who Must Not Be Named do you mean?”

“I can’t say. I’d have to use his name!”

xkcd.com

71 Gus  Apr 28, 2014 4:22:43pm

It’s always the same thing. Say one little thing critical of Israel and suddenly one is called antisemitic by the RWNJs.

72 GeneJockey  Apr 28, 2014 4:23:02pm

re: #69 bratwurst

And he doesn’t think “the liberal/progressive base would be bothered by such a move.”

Don’t forget the whipped bullshit on top of his bullshit sundae!

With a big Maraschino cherry of bullshit on top.

73 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Apr 28, 2014 4:23:04pm

re: #71 Gus

It’s always the same thing. Say one little thing critical of Israel and suddenly one is called antisemitic by the RWNJs.

Or in this case, not actually critical of Israel.

74 thedopefishlives  Apr 28, 2014 4:23:15pm

re: #71 Gus

It’s always the same thing. Say one little thing critical of Israel and suddenly one is called antisemitic by the RWNJs.

And yet, if it isn’t critical ENOUGH of Israel, then you get bumrushed by the moonbats.

75 Gus  Apr 28, 2014 4:24:04pm

re: #73 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

Or in this case, not actually critical of Israel.

Yeah, they’re always doing a lot of “creative reading.” //

76 Targetpractice  Apr 28, 2014 4:25:49pm

It’s a question that really needs to be asked aloud: “Do we support Israel as a Jewish state or as a democratic state?” Because if we support the former, then whether or not it institutes apartheid matters not. But if we support the latter, then we have to acknowledge that Israel cannot maintain such and yet pursue a one-state policy. There is simply no way that we can have both.

77 GeneJockey  Apr 28, 2014 4:27:05pm

re: #76 Targetpractice

It’s a question that really needs to be asked aloud: “Do we support Israel as a Jewish state or as a democratic state?” Because if we support the former, then whether or not it institutes apartheid matters not. But if we support the latter, then we have to acknowledge that Israel cannot maintain such and yet pursue a one-state policy. There is simply no way that we can have both.

Apparently the problem lies in accurately describing an outcome nobody wants.

78 GeneJockey  Apr 28, 2014 4:27:57pm

re: #70 thedopefishlives

xkcd.com

Sometimes I feel like Butters in the ‘Simpsons Did It’ episode of South Park, only it’s XKCD.

79 Gus  Apr 28, 2014 4:28:11pm

Israel should not only not annex the West Bank but they should be prevented from annexing the West Bank. We all agreed on the 1967 borders.

80 Targetpractice  Apr 28, 2014 4:28:14pm

re: #77 GeneJockey

Apparently the problem lies in accurately describing an outcome nobody wants.

So it would seem. Like South Africa under apartheid, we’re expected to just keep dancing around the issue while professing support of Israel. “We support freedom, liberty, and democracy…and South Africa.”

81 Gus  Apr 28, 2014 4:30:06pm

Also, Ted Cruz. Come on. I’m pretty familiar with Reagan supporting South Africa’s apartheid regime. That includes being familiar with others that supported that regime. Ahem.

82 Backwoods_Sleuth  Apr 28, 2014 4:30:52pm

Tennessee now:

83 wrenchwench  Apr 28, 2014 4:30:59pm

re: #72 GeneJockey

With a big Maraschino cherry of bullshit on top.

Don’t forget the nuts.

84 GeneJockey  Apr 28, 2014 4:31:32pm

re: #81 Gus

Also, Ted Cruz. Come on. I’m pretty familiar with Reagan supporting South Africa’s apartheid regime. That includes being familiar with others that supported that regime. Ahem.

But that was THEN, and this is NOW convenient!

85 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Apr 28, 2014 4:31:34pm

re: #76 Targetpractice

We can support both, too. The only moral and ethical way for Israel to remain a “Jewish” state is not to have a majority of non-Jewish—culturally Jewish—citizens.

The main annexation that’s being proposed by the nutjob, though, would mostly be of lightly-populated areas, but it would cut off Palestinian areas from each other, making governance extremely difficult. It’s 61% of the land.

86 Backwoods_Sleuth  Apr 28, 2014 4:31:48pm
87 CuriousLurker  Apr 28, 2014 4:31:56pm

From the NJDC statement:

For that reason, we express our deep disappointment that the Secretary of State has chosen to invoke the specter of “apartheid” in discussing his concerns about the failing peace process. We reject entirely that racially-based governance inherent in that word in any way describes Israel, as well as the implication that the government of Israel uses such prejudice to formalize disadvantages for any of its citizens or neighbors. It is surprising that Secretary Kerry would use this term and he should apologize and eschew the use of that formulation in the future.

Again, this is NOT what Kerry said. He was not describing Israel as such nor did he imply that it uses prejudice, blah, blah, blah.

Some people seem to get so emotional over this subject that they completely lose their reading comprehension & critical thinking skills. Either that or they’re purposely mischaracterizing what he said and/or counting on people not reading what he actually said (in context).

88 GeneJockey  Apr 28, 2014 4:32:17pm

re: #83 wrenchwench

Don’t forget the nuts.

” ‘Ee deedn’t ‘ave any nuts.”

89 Backwoods_Sleuth  Apr 28, 2014 4:33:22pm

Atlanta suburbs

90 Gus  Apr 28, 2014 4:33:28pm

Must post this.

91 CuriousLurker  Apr 28, 2014 4:33:41pm

re: #64 Gus

Bennett calls to annex 60 percent of West Bank
Reviving campaign platform, Jewish Home party leader says Palestinians in areas claimed by Israel should get citizenship

Read more: Bennett calls to annex 60 percent of West Bank | The Times of Israel timesofisrael.com
Follow us: @timesofisrael on Twitter | timesofisrael on Facebook

Ugh.

92 Gus  Apr 28, 2014 4:34:02pm

re: #91 CuriousLurker

Ugh.

Nutters.

93 thedopefishlives  Apr 28, 2014 4:34:14pm

re: #90 Gus

In Minnesota, it’s an even split between diseases, getting sucked dry, and getting carried off by the flying buggers.

94 Varek Raith  Apr 28, 2014 4:34:27pm

re: #90 Gus

Must post this.

[Embedded content]

WE’RE NUMBER 2!

95 Gus  Apr 28, 2014 4:34:38pm

Sorry. No can have West Bank.

96 dog philosopher  Apr 28, 2014 4:35:14pm

re: #40 Shiplord Kirel

Ted has to gin up some outrageous outrage about every other day to keep his name and image in front of his memory-challenged constituents. So far he is doing pretty well at it, and the tea party masses are ecstatic over him, swooning at his every outburst.

Barring proof that Vlad Putin was born in the United States, the GOP probably has its 2016 presidential candidate.

ted has sunk in the republican prez polls, sinking to 6th at 7% for example in the latest foxxpoll & this is typical for all current polls

97 Targetpractice  Apr 28, 2014 4:35:37pm

re: #85 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

We can support both, too. The only moral and ethical way for Israel to remain a “Jewish” state is not to have a majority of non-Jewish—culturally Jewish—citizens.

The main annexation that’s being proposed by the nutjob, though, would mostly be of lightly-populated areas, but it would cut off Palestinian areas from each other, making governance extremely difficult. It’s 61% of the land.

And that’s what I’m really getting at, for so many of those who reject the idea of a two-state solution for various reasons (terrorism not “rewarded,” cultural differences, moral grounds, etc), the only other option is just to annex all the area “in dispute” and relegate those living on the land to second-class status in order to maintain the present status quo.

98 GeneJockey  Apr 28, 2014 4:36:49pm

re: #93 thedopefishlives

In Minnesota, it’s an even split between diseases, getting sucked dry, and getting carried off by the flying buggers.

We stayed at my brother’s place in Bemidji once, and saw the skeeters trying to muscle their way in through the screen. It was like the scene in ‘Aliens’ where the facehugger in the jar tries to get to the bad guy.

99 darthstar  Apr 28, 2014 4:37:10pm
100 darthstar  Apr 28, 2014 4:37:57pm

re: #90 Gus

Must post this.

[Embedded content]

Damn Mosquitos…they beat us again!

101 Targetpractice  Apr 28, 2014 4:38:07pm

re: #93 thedopefishlives

In Minnesota, it’s an even split between diseases, getting sucked dry, and getting carried off by the flying buggers.

Fuckers are big enough down here in the South, they have their own squadron markings.

102 darthstar  Apr 28, 2014 4:38:43pm

re: #90 Gus

Must post this.

[Embedded content]

Remind me to stop eating freshwater snails too.

103 Gus  Apr 28, 2014 4:39:01pm

Bright Source. Israeli company. Subject to BDS derp from time to time.

104 thedopefishlives  Apr 28, 2014 4:40:14pm

re: #101 Targetpractice

Fuckers are big enough down here in the South, they have their own squadron markings.

When the US decommissioned their anti-aircraft nuclear missiles, Minnesota kept theirs. We still needed them.

105 Varek Raith  Apr 28, 2014 4:41:11pm

re: #100 darthstar

Damn Mosquitos…they beat us again!

Nuke em.
That’ll learn em.

106 GeneJockey  Apr 28, 2014 4:41:33pm

re: #102 darthstar

Remind me to stop eating freshwater snails too.

I do find that Schistosomiasis! makes a handy, non-profane exclamation.

107 Backwoods_Sleuth  Apr 28, 2014 4:41:39pm
108 Floral Giraffe  Apr 28, 2014 4:42:09pm

re: #90 Gus

Needs to have man at the top of the deadly list …..

109 Justanotherhuman  Apr 28, 2014 4:43:36pm

Well, this is most interesting…

Donald Sterling’s wife: ‘I am not a racist. I never have been’

latimes.com

110 Gus  Apr 28, 2014 4:44:19pm

re: #108 Floral Giraffe

Needs to have man at the top of the deadly list …..

Mosquitoes and Florida Man. Or, Florida for short. //

111 Amory Blaine  Apr 28, 2014 4:44:59pm

Kerry should just mutter meaningless platitudes about freedom. Then we should invade Vanatoo.

112 Skip Intro  Apr 28, 2014 4:45:02pm

Meanwhile, back in Bunkerville,

Link to full sized letter in case you can’t read the posted one.

ralstonreports.com

113 freetoken  Apr 28, 2014 4:45:57pm

re: #111 Amory Blaine

Kerry should just mutter meaningless platitudes about freedom. Then we should invade Vanatoo.

Is that near Perth?

114 thedopefishlives  Apr 28, 2014 4:46:35pm

re: #112 Skip Intro

Translation: Make the fuckers go away, but don’t start a war. Nice work if you can get it.

115 Targetpractice  Apr 28, 2014 4:46:52pm

re: #112 Skip Intro

Meanwhile, back in Bunkerville,

[Embedded image]

Why does it not surprise me that Bundy’s buddies turned Bunkerville into an armed camp just to protect one sleazeball?

116 GeneJockey  Apr 28, 2014 4:47:38pm

re: #111 Amory Blaine

Kerry should just mutter meaningless platitudes about freedom. Then we should invade Vanatoo.

Vanuatu?

117 Backwoods_Sleuth  Apr 28, 2014 4:49:01pm
118 GeneJockey  Apr 28, 2014 4:49:03pm

re: #114 thedopefishlives

Translation: Make the fuckers go away, but don’t start a war. Nice work if you can get it.

Alternate translation: These clowns claim you County Sheriffs are the ultimate law of the land. Go use that authority to tell them to fuck off.

119 EPR-radar  Apr 28, 2014 4:49:13pm

re: #97 Targetpractice

And that’s what I’m really getting at, for so many of those who reject the idea of a two-state solution for various reasons (terrorism not “rewarded,” cultural differences, moral grounds, etc), the only other option is just to annex all the area “in dispute” and relegate those living on the land to second-class status in order to maintain the present status quo.

Not so incidentally, the present status quo cannot be maintained indefinitely. IMO, it would have been justified (but too undiplomatic) to opine that the alternative to a two state solution is some dreadful acts of war/terrorism/genocide.

120 GeneJockey  Apr 28, 2014 4:49:54pm

re: #117 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

Holy shit! She had arms like a fucking Orangutan!

121 ObserverArt  Apr 28, 2014 4:49:58pm

Quick drive by…first period of hockey game over.

Kilgore…how many times are you going to faint over this whole apartheid thing? I thought you were not big on outrages and here you are being all outraged and yet admitting you are lacking any possible reasoning for Kerry’s statement.

Could it be you don’t understand because there is nothing to understand?

Or would you just like to take a moment and admit you hate Kerry and all the rest of this is a show?

You haven’t liked him in Syria. You haven’t liked him in the Ukraine. You don’t like him now.

122 darthstar  Apr 28, 2014 4:50:09pm
123 Gus  Apr 28, 2014 4:50:38pm
124 Targetpractice  Apr 28, 2014 4:52:06pm

re: #118 GeneJockey

Alternate translation: These clowns claim you County Sheriffs are the ultimate law of the land. Go use that authority to tell them to fuck off.

Word was that the militia nutters aren’t overly thrilled with Gillespie, as he played peacemaker instead of joining Bundy’s side and didn’t agree with Bundy’s demand that the BLM agents be disarmed and the guns brought to his ranch.

125 thedopefishlives  Apr 28, 2014 4:53:09pm

re: #121 ObserverArt

Quick drive by…first period of hockey game over.

Kilgore…how many times are you going to faint over this whole apartheid thing? I thought you were not big on outrages and here you are being all outraged and yet admitting you are lacking any possible reasoning for Kerry’s statement.

Could it be you don’t understand because there is nothing to understand?

Or would you just like to take a moment and admit you hate Kerry and all the rest of this is a show?

You haven’t liked him in Syria. You haven’t liked him in the Ukraine. You don’t like him now.

Killgore (whom I call Debbie Downer, or Eeyore) has apparently been bitten by the bug of defeatism. He refuses to admit that any American foreign policy efforts can work.

126 goddamnedfrank  Apr 28, 2014 4:53:26pm

This whole deal is just another example of idiots cynically ignoring all context and meaning. Like #CancelColbert only worse because there was no layer of satire to fuck with people’s comprehension skills. All we have here is fundamentally dishonest willful obtuseness and genuine idiocy.

127 RealityBasedSteve  Apr 28, 2014 4:53:52pm

re: #111 Amory Blaine

Kerry should just mutter meaningless platitudes about freedom. Then we should invade Vanatoo.

We’ve always been at war with Vanatoo.

RBS

128 darthstar  Apr 28, 2014 4:55:04pm
130 Gus  Apr 28, 2014 4:55:32pm
131 ObserverArt  Apr 28, 2014 4:55:38pm

re: #126 goddamnedfrank

This whole deal is just another example of idiots cynically ignoring all context and meaning. Like #CancelColbert only worse because there was no layer of satire to fuck with people’s comprehension skills. All we have here is fundamentally dishonest willful obtuseness and genuine idiocy.

Here…there…and everywhere.

132 GeneJockey  Apr 28, 2014 4:56:10pm

re: #130 Gus

[Embedded content]

Holy Shit! They all have arms like Audrey Hepburn!
////

133 Gus  Apr 28, 2014 4:56:44pm
134 Pie-onist Overlord  Apr 28, 2014 4:57:13pm

GOHMERT!!!!!!

135 ObserverArt  Apr 28, 2014 4:57:17pm

re: #132 GeneJockey

Holy Shit! They all have arms like Audrey Hepburn!
////

Saw that one coming…but it is funny anyway!

136 EPR-radar  Apr 28, 2014 4:58:18pm

re: #126 goddamnedfrank

This whole deal is just another example of idiots cynically ignoring all context and meaning. Like #CancelColbert only worse because there was no layer of satire to fuck with people’s comprehension skills. All we have here is fundamentally dishonest willful obtuseness and genuine idiocy.

AKA the bedrock principles of today’s GOP.

137 thedopefishlives  Apr 28, 2014 4:58:25pm

re: #134 Pie-onist Overlord

GOHMERT!!!!!!

[Embedded content]

As opposed to whom, Mr. Gohmert? You? *snort* I wouldn’t let you speak for a bag of potato chips.

138 ObserverArt  Apr 28, 2014 4:58:32pm

re: #134 Pie-onist Overlord

GOHMERT!!!!!!

[Embedded content]

OF COURSE!!!!!!

139 JamesWI  Apr 28, 2014 4:58:43pm

I guess KT has been too focused on this “outrage” to notice the terrible injustice of companies deciding to drop their sponsorship of the Clippers as long as Donald Sterling is in charge.

Don’t they know they’re infringing on Sterling’s free speech rights?!?!?! Come on, Killgore, you’re slipping.

140 GeneJockey  Apr 28, 2014 4:58:59pm

re: #133 Gus

[Embedded content]

This relates, I assume, to the recent military forces agreement?

141 Pie-onist Overlord  Apr 28, 2014 4:59:32pm

TREVOR HOWARD AND MARLON BRANDO!

142 Targetpractice  Apr 28, 2014 5:00:50pm

re: #134 Pie-onist Overlord

GOHMERT!!!!!!

[Embedded content]

A Republican lecturing others on the offensiveness of apartheid. Goldy, bronzy, irony.

143 GeneJockey  Apr 28, 2014 5:01:22pm

re: #135 ObserverArt

Saw that one coming…but it is funny anyway!

How could I not?

144 Pie-onist Overlord  Apr 28, 2014 5:01:54pm
145 GeneJockey  Apr 28, 2014 5:01:55pm

re: #142 Targetpractice

A Republican lecturing others on the offensiveness of apartheid. Goldy, bronzy, irony.

Chutzpah with a capital ch.

146 GeneJockey  Apr 28, 2014 5:02:35pm

re: #144 Pie-onist Overlord

[Embedded content]

Don’t you have ethics charges to defend against, Stevie?

147 Justanotherhuman  Apr 28, 2014 5:03:47pm

re: #144 Pie-onist Overlord

[Embedded content]

How are you holding up under that House investigation, Stockman?

Forty-five more days of quaking in your boots?

148 Gus  Apr 28, 2014 5:04:56pm

re: #144 Pie-onist Overlord

[Embedded content]

Yes, because nothing bad ever comes from an Israeli politician about this administration.

149 EPR-radar  Apr 28, 2014 5:06:47pm

re: #144 Pie-onist Overlord

WTH is so hard about If … then logic?

Kerry’s statement was crystal clear —- if the two state solution is not adopted, then the only possibilities are the end of Israel as a Jewish state or some kind of apartheid regime.

150 Backwoods_Sleuth  Apr 28, 2014 5:07:32pm

Once again, Texas shows how that “no pesky regulations” helps business.

151 Gus  Apr 28, 2014 5:09:28pm

Yes, Obama is doing nothing! Wrong.

152 Kragar  Apr 28, 2014 5:09:36pm

For Gus

153 Backwoods_Sleuth  Apr 28, 2014 5:10:00pm

Not a good day for the Koch brothers.
First one of their plants blow up in Texas and now this:

154 Gus  Apr 28, 2014 5:11:23pm

re: #152 Kragar

For Gus

[Embedded content]

Almost went to see him the night before leaving New Jersey headed for San Francisco. Should have gone. He was one of the greats.

155 Gus  Apr 28, 2014 5:14:40pm
156 Gus  Apr 28, 2014 5:15:32pm
157 Mattand  Apr 28, 2014 5:18:43pm

So that’s the guy around here who was one of the first to call “Bullshit” on the Tea Party way back when, huh?

Beginning to think it was a classic case of “Broken clock being right twice a day” syndrome.

158 Killgore Trout  Apr 28, 2014 5:18:57pm

re: #121 ObserverArt

Quick drive by…first period of hockey game over.

Kilgore…how many times are you going to faint over this whole apartheid thing? I thought you were not big on outrages and here you are being all outraged and yet admitting you are lacking any possible reasoning for Kerry’s statement.

Could it be you don’t understand because there is nothing to understand?

Or would you just like to take a moment and admit you hate Kerry and all the rest of this is a show?

You haven’t liked him in Syria. You haven’t liked him in the Ukraine. You don’t like him now.

as mentioned I #5 I’m not personally offended but it would be an easy guess that the Israelis would be offended. Obama and Kerry are not stupid so I assume offending the Israelis was an intended effect. Maybe it’s a brilliant diplomatic move to coerce the Israelis into doing something but I don’t see it. It just looks like needlessly bad diplomacy to me.

159 thedopefishlives  Apr 28, 2014 5:22:04pm

re: #158 Killgore Trout

Oh, bother.

160 klys  Apr 28, 2014 5:22:36pm

re: #159 thedopefishlives

LAZY DRUIDS.

161 Shiplord Kirel  Apr 28, 2014 5:22:43pm

re: #96 dog philosopher

ted has sunk in the republican prez polls, sinking to 6th at 7% for example in the latest foxxpoll & this is typical for all current polls

Those polls are almost meaningless at this point, as shown by the volatility of the results. Cruz led by a wide margin as recently as February and he finished second to Rand Paul in the Maine straw poll just yesterday.
In the April 16th Fox Poll, Chris Christie was the leader with just 15%, so the 7% is not as insignificant as it may seem. Jeb Bush, Rand Paul, Paul Ryan, and Marco Rubio also polled ahead of Cruz but the latter three did so only by a statistically insignificant margin.
I assume for many reasons that the Tea Party will remain ascendent until 2016. This would eliminate Bush, Christie, and probably Ryan from consideration. Cruz is a shrewder politician than either Rubio or Paul and I predict he will have more staying power.

162 Gus  Apr 28, 2014 5:23:48pm

re: #158 Killgore Trout

as mentioned I #5 I’m not personally offended but it would be an easy guess that the Israelis would be offended. Obama and Kerry are not stupid so I assume offending the Israelis was an intended effect. Maybe it’s a brilliant diplomatic move to coerce the Israelis into doing something but I don’t see it. It just looks like needlessly bad diplomacy to me.

Wait. So that would imply that Josh Rogin is part of the conspiracy. Because had it not been for Rogin this wouldn’t have gotten out. Israelis were not present at this meeting from what I understand.

163 Amory Blaine  Apr 28, 2014 5:24:40pm

re: #116 GeneJockey

Vanuatu?

Yes. Thank you. Typing on this tablet is frustrating but happy to report lgf is loading and woking very nice.

164 Decatur Deb  Apr 28, 2014 5:27:27pm

re: #149 EPR-radar

WTH is so hard about If … then logic?

Kerry’s statement was crystal clear —- if the two state solution is not adopted, then the only possibilities are the end of Israel as a Jewish state or some kind of apartheid regime.

Actually, there are 2 even-worse outcomes, and extremists on both sides have called for them.

165 Gus  Apr 28, 2014 5:27:38pm

re: #158 Killgore Trout

as mentioned I #5 I’m not personally offended but it would be an easy guess that the Israelis would be offended. Obama and Kerry are not stupid so I assume offending the Israelis was an intended effect. Maybe it’s a brilliant diplomatic move to coerce the Israelis into doing something but I don’t see it. It just looks like needlessly bad diplomacy to me.

BTW. What are you growing in that greenhouse? :D

//

166 Gus  Apr 28, 2014 5:28:05pm

Related.

167 Stanley Sea  Apr 28, 2014 5:30:34pm

Sooooooo. Has the thread gone as expected?

168 CuriousLurker  Apr 28, 2014 5:30:37pm

re: #158 Killgore Trout

as mentioned I #5 I’m not personally offended but it would be an easy guess that the Israelis would be offended. Obama and Kerry are not stupid so I assume offending the Israelis was an intended effect. Maybe it’s a brilliant diplomatic move to coerce the Israelis into doing something but I don’t see it. It just looks like needlessly bad diplomacy to me.

Weird, because all the outraged squawking I’ve been hearing has been coming from politicians and advocacy groups stateside. Did I miss some big story where one of the key players in Israel flipped a desk and stomped out of the room in a fit of high dudgeon over Kerry’s comment?

169 thedopefishlives  Apr 28, 2014 5:31:06pm

re: #160 klys

[Embedded image]LAZY DRUIDS.

I’ve always wished that if my shaman cast Lightning Bolt at a swimming druid, that it would instantly kill them. Along with a whole bunch of fish.

170 b_sharp  Apr 28, 2014 5:32:02pm

Right wing extremists have their image justifiably damaged by the meaning behind their words.
Now they’re desperately trying to turn the tables by ignoring the meaning of the words and focusing on the sounds.

Purposeful twisting or shallow thinking, you choose.

171 lehugbox  Apr 28, 2014 5:34:02pm
As the Daily Beast noted, the Rome Statute defined Apartheid as “inhumane acts… committed in the context of an institutionalized regime of systematic oppression and domination by one racial group over any other racial group or groups and committed with the intention of maintaining that regime.”

Former South African deputy president Baleka Mbete and African National Congress leader has said that Israel-Palestine is actually “far worse than Apartheid South Africa.”

juancole.com

>no Israel haters will jump on this quote as an excuse to launch “muh apartheid” attacks on Israel.

Sure…

Why are you all ignoring the fact that Israel is the one who has consistently wanted peace, that Hamas has in it’s charter the destruction of the Jewish state and that PLO is full of holocaust deniers and bigots, including Abu Mazzen who’s PhD thesis was written on how Zionists and Nazi’s colluded to form Israel.

May I quote a Palestinian student who recently returned from a trip to Auschwitz, in the wake of which the Professor who led it was dismissed.

I was born in Jerusalem in an Arab culture that, to put it mildly, ignores the Holocaust and avoids discussing it. As a young girl, I had to overcome social and educational restrictions to learn more about these closed chapters of history. Not only were books on the subject unavailable, but we were told that our responsibility as Palestinians was to memorize only what teachers told us, so as to reinforce our collective memory of loss and grievance and support our national identity and quest for a homeland.

theatlantic.com

The Naftali Bennet’s of Israel wouldn’t have a leg to stand on if the Muslim Arabs, of all nations, weren’t in general so hateful towards Israel?
The legacy of Al-Husseyni is still with us, every day hateful diatribes against the Jews waft from the TV and radio stations of Israel’s neighbors.
War drums beat their solemn march.

172 Killgore Trout  Apr 28, 2014 5:34:57pm

re: #162 Gus

Wait. So that would imply that Josh Rogin is part of the conspiracy. Because had it not been for Rogin this wouldn’t have gotten out. Israelis were not present at this meeting from what I understand.

We don’t know who was at the meeting

173 b_sharp  Apr 28, 2014 5:34:59pm

re: #167 Stanley Sea

Sooooooo. Has the thread gone as expected?

No, I stabbed my finger with the needle.

174 Pie-onist Overlord  Apr 28, 2014 5:35:06pm

IDIOT DOUBLES DOWN ON TEH STUPID.

175 wrenchwench  Apr 28, 2014 5:36:17pm

re: #171 lehugbox

Greetings, hatchling.

Why are you all ignoring the fact that Israel is the one who has consistently wanted peace, that Hamas has in it’s charter the destruction of the Jewish state and that PLO is full of holocaust deniers and bigots, including Abu Mazzen who’s PhD thesis was written on how Zionists and Nazi’s colluded to form Israel.

Come here often?

176 Charles Johnson  Apr 28, 2014 5:36:21pm

re: #171 lehugbox

Uh oh.

177 thedopefishlives  Apr 28, 2014 5:37:19pm

re: #176 Charles Johnson

Uh oh.

There’s the boss. I like my chew toys as much as the next guy, but I think this one is a little … rotten. Not even enough meat for the troll barbecue.

178 klys  Apr 28, 2014 5:37:33pm

re: #169 thedopefishlives

I’ve always wished that if my shaman cast Lightning Bolt at a swimming druid, that it would instantly kill them. Along with a whole bunch of fish.

As long as it took the shaman out too… ;)

179 Pie-onist Overlord  Apr 28, 2014 5:38:12pm

Dumbass is dumb.

180 thedopefishlives  Apr 28, 2014 5:38:28pm

re: #178 klys

As long as it took the shaman out too… ;)

Eh. I can Reincarnate. ;)

181 EPR-radar  Apr 28, 2014 5:38:46pm

re: #168 CuriousLurker

Weird, because all the outraged squawking I’ve been hearing has been coming from politicians and advocacy groups stateside. Did I miss some big story where one of the key players in Israel flipped a desk and stomped out of the room in a fit of high dudgeon over Kerry’s comment?

The nerve of US RWNJs in setting themselves up as the arbiters of all that is proper with respect to Israel is really beyond belief.

Not only do we have lingering anti-Semitism in the US hard right from its history, but we further have many on the right who clearly care about Israel only to the extent that its actions conform with some bizarre interpretation of Revelations.

And for that little something special on top, a (D) president and administration faces truly mindless opposition over every little thing.

182 Pie-onist Overlord  Apr 28, 2014 5:39:03pm

WAAAH!!!! MY BUTT!!!!! IT HURTZ SO MUCH!!!!!!

183 Gus  Apr 28, 2014 5:39:49pm

re: #172 Killgore Trout

We don’t know who was at the meeting

So Kerry went out of his way to “offend Israel” based no a hypothetical situation that most Israelis themselves reject save for far-right nationalists in Israel? Those that want to annex the West Bank and create a single state? That doesn’t make sense. Kerry commented on something even Netanyahu doesn’t even support.

184 CuriousLurker  Apr 28, 2014 5:40:41pm

re: #171 lehugbox

What does any of that have to do with what Kerry actually said?

185 dog philosopher  Apr 28, 2014 5:40:42pm

re: #114 thedopefishlives

Translation: Make the fuckers go away, but don’t start a war. Nice work if you can get it.

play justin beiber and kenny g records very loud all the time outside of the militia camps

186 klys  Apr 28, 2014 5:41:21pm

re: #184 CuriousLurker

DERP!

187 EPR-radar  Apr 28, 2014 5:41:46pm

re: #185 dog philosopher

play justin beiber and kenny g records very loud all the time outside of the militia camps

Mercaptan artillery.

188 Gus  Apr 28, 2014 5:41:54pm

What Kerry did was basically comment on a hypothetical for Israel similar as if someone from Israel commented on a hypothetical of dominionists taking control of the USA.

189 thedopefishlives  Apr 28, 2014 5:41:59pm

re: #184 CuriousLurker

What does any of that have to do with what Kerry actually said?

Nothing, but this is a hate site, after all, since when do we concern ourselves with logically related statements?

190 klys  Apr 28, 2014 5:42:36pm

re: #188 Gus

What Kerry did was basically comment on a hypothetical for Israel similar as if someone from Israel commented on a hypothetical of dominionists taking control of the USA.

You know, the dominionists would probably be offended by that.

Then again, I really don’t give a shit if nutcases are offended. So.

191 wrenchwench  Apr 28, 2014 5:43:26pm

re: #182 Pie-onist Overlord

WAAAH!!!! MY BUTT!!!!! IT HURTZ SO MUCH!!!!!!

[Embedded content]

She gave me the worst case of spam-block-urge. I gave in.

192 Charles Johnson  Apr 28, 2014 5:43:54pm

re: #188 Gus

What Kerry did was basically comment on a hypothetical for Israel similar as if someone from Israel commented on a hypothetical of dominionists taking control of the USA.

Exactly.

193 Gus  Apr 28, 2014 5:44:15pm

Kerry commented on an “apartheid state” scenario that even the Likud or Netanyahu doesn’t support. That being a single state and/or annexing the West Bank.

194 Stanley Sea  Apr 28, 2014 5:44:20pm

re: #188 Gus

What Kerry did was basically comment on a hypothetical for Israel similar as if someone from Israel commented on a hypothetical of dominionists taking control of the USA.

Bing fucking go.

We do it all the time here, and the baptize the terrorists people get way offended.

Same/Same

195 Gus  Apr 28, 2014 5:44:43pm

re: #193 Gus

Kerry commented on an “apartheid state” scenario that even the Likud or Netanyahu doesn’t support. That being a single state and/or annexing the West Bank.

Fixed.

196 Killgore Trout  Apr 28, 2014 5:45:47pm

re: #193 Gus

Kerry commented on an “apartheid state” scenario that even the Likud or Netanyahu doesn’t support. That being a single state and/or annexing the West Bank.

Which kind of makes it an unnecessary warning.

197 Amory Blaine  Apr 28, 2014 5:46:12pm

I love Audrey Hepburn she was a great lady.

198 Gus  Apr 28, 2014 5:46:31pm

re: #196 Killgore Trout

Which kind of makes it an unnecessary warning.

Because we still don’t know the full context of this statement. He could have been answering someone’s question.

199 Gus  Apr 28, 2014 5:47:40pm

Kerry’s a talker. You mean to tell me this is all he said? Nope.

200 klys  Apr 28, 2014 5:48:00pm

re: #198 Gus

Because we still don’t know the full context of this statement. He could have been answering someone’s question.

Why wait to know the full context when you can flail around about it being bad diplomacy now?

201 wrenchwench  Apr 28, 2014 5:48:02pm

re: #196 Killgore Trout

Which kind of makes it an unnecessary warning.

It’s nice to know it didn’t offend you personally.

202 dog philosopher  Apr 28, 2014 5:48:22pm

re: #171 lehugbox

War drums beat their solemn march

i do get tired of people assuming other people’s positions before taking the time to find out and going immediately forward to refuting the assumed point of view

chat a bit and get the feel of the place before jumping in with both feet to argue against what you think we believe

203 Charles Johnson  Apr 28, 2014 5:48:32pm

re: #196 Killgore Trout

Which kind of makes it an unnecessary warning.

Ehud Barak didn’t think it was unnecessary.

204 Targetpractice  Apr 28, 2014 5:48:54pm

re: #185 dog philosopher

play justin beiber and kenny g records very loud all the time outside of the militia camps

Fairly certain that violates the Geneva Conventions where they concern collective punishment.

205 Charles Johnson  Apr 28, 2014 5:49:18pm

Our old friend Buck is very upset with me.

206 Gus  Apr 28, 2014 5:49:20pm

re: #203 Charles Johnson

Ehud Barak didn’t think it was unnecessary.

Nor Ehud Olmert.

207 Gus  Apr 28, 2014 5:49:46pm

re: #205 Charles Johnson

Our old friend Buck is very upset with me.

Is that, Buck?

208 Decatur Deb  Apr 28, 2014 5:49:50pm

re: #205 Charles Johnson

Our old friend Buck is very upset with me.

Was that Buck? I wondered?

209 klys  Apr 28, 2014 5:49:59pm

re: #205 Charles Johnson

Our old friend Buck is very upset with me.

Gosh, what a shame.

/////

210 Targetpractice  Apr 28, 2014 5:50:54pm

re: #205 Charles Johnson

Our old friend Buck is very upset with me.

Bless his heart.

///

211 Charles Johnson  Apr 28, 2014 5:51:30pm

re: #207 Gus

Oh… no, not this guy. Email.

212 Gus  Apr 28, 2014 5:51:58pm
213 dog philosopher  Apr 28, 2014 5:52:34pm

re: #205 Charles Johnson

Our old friend Buck is very upset with me.

it’s good that he’s upset. we should all be upset. as a matter of fact, things are just getting too cozy around here and we need to disagree more and get mad and yell at each other

your favorite band sucks

214 wrenchwench  Apr 28, 2014 5:53:30pm

I love this guy.

215 thedopefishlives  Apr 28, 2014 5:53:46pm

re: #213 dog philosopher

it’s good that he’s upset. we should all be upset. as a matter of fact, things are just getting too cozy around here and we need to disagree more and get mad and yell at each other

your favorite band sucks

I sat in a meeting room for an hour and a half, situated between two parties that were incredibly antagonistic with each other. I came out of that room wishing I had my asbestos scale suit with me. I don’t particularly feel like putting it on just now, you douchecanoe.

216 b_sharp  Apr 28, 2014 5:54:00pm

re: #182 Pie-onist Overlord

WAAAH!!!! MY BUTT!!!!! IT HURTZ SO MUCH!!!!!!

[Embedded content]

Gun grabbers?

How many guns has little Anna Maria had taken from her I wonder.

217 Targetpractice  Apr 28, 2014 5:54:23pm

re: #213 dog philosopher

it’s good that he’s upset. we should all be upset. as a matter of fact, things are just getting too cozy around here and we need to disagree more and get mad and yell at each other

your favorite band sucks

I can’t help it if you have no taste in music.

218 Charles Johnson  Apr 28, 2014 5:54:25pm

I knew when I posted this that it wouldn’t take long for certain Internet crackpots to start screaming that CHUCKIE JOHNSON SAYS ISRAEL IS APARTHEID!!1!!

So there’s that to look forward to.

219 Targetpractice  Apr 28, 2014 5:55:21pm

re: #218 Charles Johnson

I knew when I posted this that it wouldn’t take long for certain Internet crackpots to start screaming that CHUCKIE JOHNSON SAYS ISRAEL IS APARTHEID!!1!!

So there’s that to look forward to.

What’s that saying about when you start taking flak?

220 Shiplord Kirel  Apr 28, 2014 5:55:27pm

re: #213 dog philosopher

your favorite band sucks

That would be the Marine band. Why do you hate America?

221 CuriousLurker  Apr 28, 2014 5:56:08pm

re: #168 CuriousLurker

Weird, because all the outraged squawking I’ve been hearing has been coming from politicians and advocacy groups stateside. Did I miss some big story where one of the key players in Israel flipped a desk and stomped out of the room in a fit of high dudgeon over Kerry’s comment?

I guess not, otherwise someone would’ve been shoving a link in my face by now. Seems to me it’s exactly the kind of manufactured partisan political crap KT is constantly bemoaning.

The Israelis aren’t going anywhere. Neither are the Palestinians. They both know that. Either side attempting to solve the problem through ethnic cleansing, or genocide—or as Kerry mentioned, some sort of apartheid—would immediately become a global pariah.

They MUST come to an agreement on a two-state solution through compromise. There is no other viable option.

222 lawhawk  Apr 28, 2014 5:56:39pm
223 Decatur Deb  Apr 28, 2014 5:57:13pm

re: #221 CuriousLurker

I guess not, otherwise someone would’ve been shoving a link in my face by now. Seems to me it’s exactly the kind of manufactured partisan political crap KT is constantly bemoaning.

The Israelis aren’t going anywhere. Neither are the Palestinians. They both know that. Either side attempting to solve the problem through ethnic cleansing, or genocide—or as Kerry mentioned, some sort of apartheid—would immediately become a global pariah.

They MUST come to an agreement on a two-state solution through compromise. There is no other viable option.

Who said options have to be viable?

224 EPR-radar  Apr 28, 2014 5:57:17pm

re: #205 Charles Johnson

Our old friend Buck is very upset with me.

It took Buck a very long time to get banned. Perhaps he set a record?

225 wrenchwench  Apr 28, 2014 5:58:02pm

re: #224 EPR-radar

It took Buck a very long time to get banned. Perhaps he set a record?

He’s not banned. He’s too chicken to post here.

226 Charles Johnson  Apr 28, 2014 5:58:06pm

re: #224 EPR-radar

He isn’t banned.

227 wrenchwench  Apr 28, 2014 5:58:15pm

Or something.

228 lehugbox  Apr 28, 2014 5:58:27pm

re: #184 CuriousLurker

Why does Kerry think that it would be Jews who would place Arabs into a second class situation, and not visa-versa, Jews have all but been eradicated from the Arab world.

I’m not advocating Israel running roughshod over the Palestinians, just a fair treatment by the international community, which as a whole favours the Arab position over the Jewish.

Kerry shouldn’t resign or anything but what he said is like kicking someone when they are down.

The UN, Euros like Catherine Ashton, UNHCR, all bemoan Israel’s every move and are all but silent on the dirty deeds elsewhere.

I am just making my feelings known, and trying to levy another perspective on this turn of events.

229 Gus  Apr 28, 2014 5:58:49pm

Funny.

230 thedopefishlives  Apr 28, 2014 5:59:19pm

re: #226 Charles Johnson

He isn’t banned.

And yet he sends you emails rather than posting here publicly, where he would, no doubt, get eviscerated as usual.

231 jaunte  Apr 28, 2014 5:59:34pm

Needs more circus music.
Youtube Video

232 Charles Johnson  Apr 28, 2014 6:00:03pm

OK, well. That was actually a bit better. Surprise, I haz it.

233 wrenchwench  Apr 28, 2014 6:00:04pm

re: #228 lehugbox

I respect that you didn’t post and run.

I don’t respect the assumptions you made in your first comment.

234 Shiplord Kirel  Apr 28, 2014 6:00:29pm

re: #213 dog philosopher

it’s good that he’s upset. we should all be upset. as a matter of fact, things are just getting too cozy around here and we need to disagree more and get mad and yell at each other

your favorite band sucks

Second favorite is Trotsky Icepick, but only because of their wonderful name (their music does indeed suck green canal water). You are obviously a communist too then. That would also explain why you hate the Marine band.

235 Decatur Deb  Apr 28, 2014 6:00:39pm

re: #231 jaunte

[Embedded content]

Needs more circus music.
[Embedded content]

Is Sen Cruz still a Canadian citizen?

236 wrenchwench  Apr 28, 2014 6:00:41pm

And, just like magic:

237 Gus  Apr 28, 2014 6:00:59pm

re: #232 Charles Johnson

OK, well. That was actually a bit better. Surprise, I haz it.

30 push ups! //

238 dog philosopher  Apr 28, 2014 6:02:06pm

re: #228 lehugbox

another perspective

what perspective did we have before yours, i wonder?

239 Killgore Trout  Apr 28, 2014 6:02:14pm

re: #198 Gus

Because we still don’t know the full context of this statement. He could have been answering someone’s question.

It’s possible but it’s also possible it was a standalone comment. We also don’t know what they were trying to accomplish with the comment. I really have no idea. Maybe it was a brilliant diplomatic move which will someday come to fruition but I doubt it.

240 klys  Apr 28, 2014 6:02:19pm

re: #228 lehugbox

Because the discussion in question was what would happen if Israel established a single state instead of a two-state solution, with the implicit assumption that it is Israel as the single state?

I mean, context matters.

241 jaunte  Apr 28, 2014 6:02:24pm

re: #235 Decatur Deb

Catherine Frazier, a spokeswoman for the junior senator from Texas, said Saturday that lawyers are preparing the necessary paperwork.

The 43-year-old Cruz “has been fully focused on fighting for Texans’ values and interests in the Senate for the last year,” Frazier said via email. “He looks forward to the process being completed soon.”
cbc.ca

I have no more recent news.

242 EPR-radar  Apr 28, 2014 6:02:52pm

re: #226 Charles Johnson

He isn’t banned.

I’ll be. He was so persistent for so long that I figured the only reason he’s no longer posting drivel is a ban.

243 jaunte  Apr 28, 2014 6:03:10pm

Cruz too busy shutting down the US government to stop being a Canadian citizen.

244 klys  Apr 28, 2014 6:03:21pm

re: #239 Killgore Trout

It’s possible but it’s also possible it was a standalone comment. We also don’t know what they were trying to accomplish with the comment. I really have no idea. Maybe it was a brilliant diplomatic move which will someday come to fruition but I doubt it.

In other words, it might or it might not?

245 Skip Intro  Apr 28, 2014 6:03:37pm

re: #229 Gus

How many times is this going to go around?

Forever, I know, just like Donald Sterling is a Democrat is being plastered all over the place on the LA Times as I post.

246 Stanley Sea  Apr 28, 2014 6:04:04pm

re: #205 Charles Johnson

Our old friend Buck is very upset with me.

haaaaa. Post the thread, it will come.

247 Backwoods_Sleuth  Apr 28, 2014 6:04:27pm
248 Amory Blaine  Apr 28, 2014 6:04:37pm

re: #213 dog philosopher

it’s good that he’s upset. we should all be upset. as a matter of fact, things are just getting too cozy around here and we need to disagree more and get mad and yell at each other

your favorite band sucks

I break wind in your general direction.

249 Killgore Trout  Apr 28, 2014 6:04:41pm

re: #244 klys

In other words, it might or it might not?

I’m open to possibilities but I haven’t seen any good explanations why this is good diplomacy. I can’t think of any.

250 EPR-radar  Apr 28, 2014 6:05:30pm

re: #244 klys

In other words, it might or it might not?

Maybe yes. Maybe no. In any case, all that is certain is that Kerry screwed this up. Somehow. ////

251 jaunte  Apr 28, 2014 6:05:35pm

re: #240 klys

Because the discussion in question was what would happen if Israel established a single state instead of a two-state solution, with the implicit assumption that it is Israel as the single state?

That was the hypothetical. There could certainly be others, but this is the one that Rogin recorded.

252 Decatur Deb  Apr 28, 2014 6:05:46pm

re: #243 jaunte

Cruz too busy shutting down the US government to stop being a Canadian citizen.

Anchor booby.

253 Floral Giraffe  Apr 28, 2014 6:05:59pm

re: #236 wrenchwench

He’s always such a gentleman!

254 Stanley Sea  Apr 28, 2014 6:06:02pm

re: #214 wrenchwench

I love this guy.

[Embedded content]

Me too.

255 EPR-radar  Apr 28, 2014 6:06:30pm

re: #248 Amory Blaine

I break wind in your general direction.

Go away, or I shall taunt you a second time!

(psst, bring up the cow-launcher)

256 Floral Giraffe  Apr 28, 2014 6:07:02pm

re: #255 EPR-radar

Nudge, nudge, know what I mean?

257 dog philosopher  Apr 28, 2014 6:07:13pm

re: #234 Shiplord Kirel

That would also explain why you hate the Marine band.

their arrangement of ‘louie louie’ is full of krumhorns

258 Gus  Apr 28, 2014 6:07:21pm

re: #249 Killgore Trout

I’m open to possibilities but I haven’t seen any good explanations why this is good diplomacy. I can’t think of any.

It wasn’t diplomacy. It was a private meeting.

259 Charles Johnson  Apr 28, 2014 6:07:51pm
260 klys  Apr 28, 2014 6:07:59pm

re: #258 Gus

It wasn’t diplomacy. It was a private meeting.

If Kerry farts, is that also somehow White House policy?

I’m beginning to think some people would argue yes.

261 William Barnett-Lewis  Apr 28, 2014 6:08:00pm

re: #155 Gus

[Embedded content]

Truth. He’d also be really happy with the new mirrorless digital cameras since they work like the Contax RF’s he usually used. Though that’s a sweet Rolleiflex he’s holding there.

He did some damn fine work.

262 thedopefishlives  Apr 28, 2014 6:08:08pm

re: #255 EPR-radar

Go away, or I shall taunt you a second time!

(psst, bring up the cow-launcher)

Yes, we already have one. It’s very nice.

263 Killgore Trout  Apr 28, 2014 6:08:33pm

Kerry now claiming it was unintentional
JOHN KERRY: ‘If I Could Rewind The Tape, I Would’ve Chosen A Different Word’

“I have been around long enough to also know the power of words to create a misimpression, even when unintentional, and if I could rewind the tape, I would have chosen a different word to describe my firm belief that the only way in the long term to have a Jewish state and two nations and two peoples living side by side in peace and security is through a two state solution,” Kerry said in the statement.

264 dog philosopher  Apr 28, 2014 6:08:49pm

re: #234 Shiplord Kirel

Trotsky Icepick

anything like Gogol Bordello?

265 Varek Raith  Apr 28, 2014 6:09:10pm

I’m out.
Later.

266 Stanley Sea  Apr 28, 2014 6:09:56pm

re: #239 Killgore Trout

blah blah blah blah blah

267 wrenchwench  Apr 28, 2014 6:10:07pm

Kerry slams critics after ‘apartheid’ remark

US Secretary of State John Kerry issued a forceful statement on Monday night responding to fallout from his use of the term ‘apartheid’ to characterize a potential future Israeli political reality, should a two-state solution with the Palestinians fail to come to pass.

“I will not allow my commitment to Israel to be questioned by anyone, particularly for partisan, political purposes,” Kerry said in the statement, issued by the State Department. “I do not believe, nor have I ever stated, publicly or privately, that Israel is an apartheid state or that it intends to become one.”

[…]

268 Charles Johnson  Apr 28, 2014 6:10:23pm

re: #263 Killgore Trout

And this is why I said I wasn’t Kerry’s biggest fan.

269 Gus  Apr 28, 2014 6:10:36pm

270 Stanley Sea  Apr 28, 2014 6:11:21pm

re: #239 Killgore Trout

Wishy washy just to stir it up.

I review your comments to confirm my initial response. All you do is counter, never ever say anything definitive.

then you link the worst websites.

271 Gus  Apr 28, 2014 6:11:47pm

re: #267 wrenchwench

Kerry slams critics after ‘apartheid’ remark

“I do not believe, nor have I ever stated, publicly or privately, that Israel is an apartheid state or that it intends to become one.”

Added for emphasis.

272 Decatur Deb  Apr 28, 2014 6:11:48pm

re: #263 Killgore Trout

Kerry now claiming it was unintentional
JOHN KERRY: ‘If I Could Rewind The Tape, I Would’ve Chosen A Different Word’

If so, then he should get his dick whacked.

273 CuriousLurker  Apr 28, 2014 6:12:28pm

re: #228 lehugbox

Why does Kerry think that it would be Jews who would place Arabs into a second class situation, and not visa-versa, Jews have all but been eradicated from the Arab world.

I’m not advocating Israel running roughshod over the Palestinians, just a fair treatment by the international community, which as a whole favours the Arab position over the Jewish.

Kerry shouldn’t resign or anything but what he said is like kicking someone when they are down.

The UN, Euros like Catherine Ashton, UNHCR, all bemoan Israel’s every move and are all but silent on the dirty deeds elsewhere.

I am just making my feelings known, and trying to levy another perspective on this turn of events.

Israel is a sovereign state with an army, navy, and air force. The Palestinians don’t, so they don’t have the capacity to place Jews in a second class situation.

If the Arabs were going to do that, if they were capable of doing that—and here I’m talking about the much wider Arab world—they would’ve done so by now. They certainly exist in far greater numbers, they have military forces, and they basically have Israel surrounded. Why haven’t they?

274 Killgore Trout  Apr 28, 2014 6:12:34pm

re: #268 Charles Johnson

And this is why I said I wasn’t Kerry’s biggest fan.

I’m not a fan of forced apologies after outrages. He’s welcome to apologize if he wants to or was asked by the White House but I’d rather people be allowed to say what they mean.

275 lawhawk  Apr 28, 2014 6:13:14pm

re: #221 CuriousLurker

The US wont accept Palestinians’ unilaterally declaring statehood, and they’re not going to let the status quo drag on.

The real problem is that the US can’t determine the outcome here. It’s really out of US control, no matter how much money, prestige and effort is thrown their way.

Israel and Palestinians have got to want peace and make the hard choices, and neither side is particularly willing to trust the other.

Israel’s concerns are primarily the fact that Hamas refuses to recognize Israel’s rights, and Hamas’ longstanding claims and statements shade Israel’s view - disengagement was supposed to improve Israel’s peace and security, and Hamas turned Gaza into a terror state, that a security fence couldn’t reign in- not when the rockets, mortars, and missiles began flying around.

That and the fact that who exactly is Israel negotiating with? Fatah? Hamas? Both? Fatah is probably more likely to cut a deal (and they’ve been doing civil administrative control over the West Bank where it’s been pretty quiet for the most part since 2007, but that doesn’t address what happens with Gaza. You go from a 2-state solution to a 3-state one, if you keep Gaza/Hamas out of it.

Or if Hamas gets rolled back into the fold, then you’ve got the problems I note above - and that scuttles a deal unless Hamas is willing to do an about face on cutting a deal with Israel, which would likely spur the extremists within Hamas to splinter and call Hamas a bunch of sellouts (which I think is a near certainty for any peace deal as some - Israeli and Palestinian will try terrorism to undermine any deal because it threatens the status quo and the power that flows from the current situation).

The land swaps aren’t a problem. Settlements aren’t a problem. Even a limited right of return isn’t an issue. Heck, some kind of adjustments to Jerusalem’s border to accommodate two capitals side by side wouldn’t be impossible. Even defensible borders is a possibility, as is the ability to link Gaza with the West Bank.

But it has to take a sea change in views - on both sides. Palestinians and Israelis have got to want peace, and right now neither side is there.

Palestinians want Jerusalem as their capital, ignoring that Israel has rights to Jerusalem as well.

276 lehugbox  Apr 28, 2014 6:13:21pm

re: #233 wrenchwench

This thread seems to think that Israel actually has a partner in peace.
Personally I truly believe that 3 states will be the only way, we can’t ask Israel to swallow a Hamas-PLO unity government.
Not to mention other ridiculous things like right of return for multiple generations of Palestinians, the only people in the world to be granted refugee status multi-generationally and the only displaced people to have their own UN division to care for them.
Why won’t Arab nations step up to the plate and offer these poor people residency?
Why does the world accept that these people are being used as a cynical tool by those who wish to destroy Israel.

277 klys  Apr 28, 2014 6:13:21pm

Oh the irony. The irony. It burns so much.

278 Charles Johnson  Apr 28, 2014 6:13:40pm
279 klys  Apr 28, 2014 6:14:06pm

re: #278 Charles Johnson

Fake outrage.

As highlighted in this thread! Repeatedly!

280 Gus  Apr 28, 2014 6:14:19pm

re: #274 Killgore Trout

I’m not a fan of forced apologies after outrages. He’s welcome to apologize if he wants to or was asked by the White House but I’d rather people be allowed to say what they mean.

You know. This is kind of ironic.

281 Gus  Apr 28, 2014 6:16:40pm
282 lehugbox  Apr 28, 2014 6:16:48pm

re: #273 CuriousLurker

The Arab bloc tried, 3 times, failed. Miserably.

Palestinians have had many militias, and well trained and funded they were, and are.

283 Gus  Apr 28, 2014 6:17:05pm

re: #274 Killgore Trout

I’m not a fan of forced apologies after outrages. He’s welcome to apologize if he wants to or was asked by the White House but I’d rather people be allowed to say what they mean.

Why are you outraged at Kerry’s comment? :D

284 klys  Apr 28, 2014 6:18:59pm

re: #282 lehugbox

/watches the point go flying by overhead

/waves at it

285 Killgore Trout  Apr 28, 2014 6:19:41pm

re: #280 Gus

You know. This is kind of ironic.

How so? I wasn’t offended by his remark (which I’ve stated repeatedly) and I never asked for him to apologize or resign.

286 wrenchwench  Apr 28, 2014 6:20:11pm

re: #276 lehugbox

This thread seems to think that Israel actually has a partner in peace.
Personally I truly believe that 3 states will be the only way, we can’t ask Israel to swallow a Hamas-PLO unity government.
Not to mention other ridiculous things like right of return for multiple generations of Palestinians, the only people in the world to be granted refugee status multi-generationally and the only displaced people to have their own UN division to care for them.
Why won’t Arab nations step up to the plate and offer these poor people residency?
Why does the world accept that these people are being used as a cynical tool by those who wish to destroy Israel.

This thread is a hot mess if you’re looking for what ‘it’ thinks. Read the post just above yours, read any comment by Lawhawk, CuriousLurker, Gus, and some others who have long studied and watched the region. You’ll find some of the smartest commentary around. You can find some not-so-smart comments also. It’s not a coherent whole.

LGF has always had lively discussions about Israel and the Middle East. Join in, and definitely if you have knowledge, opinions or observations you don’t see represented, do share them.

287 dog philosopher  Apr 28, 2014 6:20:28pm

re: #276 lehugbox

This thread seems to think that Israel actually has a partner in peace

you could always ask ‘the thread’ first

hey, ‘thread’ - what do you think?

288 Charles Johnson  Apr 28, 2014 6:20:36pm

Surprise level decreasing.

289 Killgore Trout  Apr 28, 2014 6:20:47pm

re: #283 Gus

Why are you outraged at Kerry’s comment? :D

Ah! I’m outraged by Kerry’s apology in the face of outrage. lol
/I get it now

290 CuriousLurker  Apr 28, 2014 6:21:34pm

re: #246 Stanley Sea

haaaaa. Post the thread, it will come.

LOL, I actually thought of him the other day and momentarily wondered if he’d suddenly appear if we performed the Bloody Mary ritual invoking his name instead of hers.

Yeah, it was one of my late-night chasing the white rabbit moments. //

291 Gus  Apr 28, 2014 6:21:59pm
292 jaunte  Apr 28, 2014 6:22:45pm

re: #291 Gus

Really?

293 wrenchwench  Apr 28, 2014 6:22:53pm

re: #281 Gus

[Embedded content]

That didn’t lose her any votes, but it lost him some listeners. Fortunately, he doesn’t give a shit.

294 thedopefishlives  Apr 28, 2014 6:23:10pm

re: #288 Charles Johnson

Surprise level decreasing.

2006 called. They want their right-wing talking points back.

295 lawhawk  Apr 28, 2014 6:23:35pm

And this is why my longstanding thesis about the Arab-Israeli peace process still stands. Backchannels and secret negotiations are the only way to get breakthroughs. Public diplomacy isn’t going to get deals done, since the parties will get the kinds of concessions only in secret. Once the moves are made public, it only serves to harden the sides against compromise, and lets the extremists push the sides apart.

And right now, neither side has a leader who is willing to put their life on the line to make a deal happen.

296 Gus  Apr 28, 2014 6:23:45pm

re: #292 jaunte

Really?

297 Pie-onist Overlord  Apr 28, 2014 6:24:41pm

re: #218 Charles Johnson

I knew when I posted this that it wouldn’t take long for certain Internet crackpots to start screaming that CHUCKIE JOHNSON SAYS ISRAEL IS APARTHEID!!1!!

So there’s that to look forward to.

Yeah but, they’re like all BFF’s with Mona now and she thinks Israel & Juice are Teh Suck.

298 TedStriker  Apr 28, 2014 6:27:20pm

re: #225 wrenchwench

He’s not banned. He’s too chicken to post here.

D_F has more balls and intellectual honesty than Buck does.

299 klys  Apr 28, 2014 6:27:36pm

re: #295 lawhawk

Quick, someone keep Kerry from farting in the backroom on Obama’s command to derail the process.

/////

300 Backwoods_Sleuth  Apr 28, 2014 6:28:10pm

re: #291 Gus

[Embedded content]

I knew this would come in handy someday

301 Single-handed sailor  Apr 28, 2014 6:28:19pm

re: #291 Gus

[Embedded content]

what?

302 Gus  Apr 28, 2014 6:29:27pm

re: #301 Single-handed sailor

what?

That’s a good one.

303 thedopefishlives  Apr 28, 2014 6:29:57pm

re: #301 Single-handed sailor

[Embedded image]what?

The Dude is an appropriate response to any dudebro derpage.

304 jaunte  Apr 28, 2014 6:30:32pm

This u didn’t know?!

305 Gus  Apr 28, 2014 6:31:11pm

re: #304 jaunte

This u didn’t know?!

WHAT ARE YOU PEOPLE STUPID?!?!? YOU DIDN’T KNOW JOHN KERRY IS THE VICE PRESIDENT?!?!?!

306 dog philosopher  Apr 28, 2014 6:32:04pm

i’ll venture some opinions about the palestinian israeli negotiations

usually i keep my mouth shut because nobody likes what i say, and i like to choose my battles

i think since 1967 some part of israel has been trying to eat and digest gaza and the west bank and it’s done nothing for them but practically kill them with indigestion

and, as is usual in human conflicts, there are people who make their living promising salvation to people with hardly anything left but hope and they line their pockets very well and nothing much else happens

i think both sides have many reasonable people who might have a chance at a decent settlement of affairs if it weren’t for other people on both sides who seem to want no such thing, but rather feel that if they hold out long enough, they’ll get everything and a cherry on top to boot

i think that humans are imperfect and the whole mess is a wonderful example of that, and it would be amusing if it weren’t for all the dead children and things like that

307 CuriousLurker  Apr 28, 2014 6:32:33pm

re: #275 lawhawk

I get all that1 and I appreciate you going to to trouble to explain all the other stuff, but I was responding to a very specific scenario lehugbox brought up, namely that the Palestinians don’t have the means to place the Israeli Jews in the sort of second class apartheid type situation lehugbox described.

————————————————————

1.) For the record, just because I don’t talk about the I-P issue doesn’t mean that I haven’t been doing my homework in educating myself about it more. To be honest, I don’t really like discussing it because things always seem to veer off track, exactly as they’re doing right now.

308 Pie-onist Overlord  Apr 28, 2014 6:32:54pm

TEH STUPID IT BURNSSS IT BURNSSSSS PRECIOUSSSSS

309 Jack Burton  Apr 28, 2014 6:33:06pm

re: #305 Gus

WHAT ARE YOU PEOPLE STUPID?!?!? YOU DIDN’T KNOW JOHN KERRY IS THE VICE PRESIDENT?!?!?!

Is Joe Biden gonna have to choke a bitchSecState?

310 klys  Apr 28, 2014 6:33:29pm

re: #307 CuriousLurker

There’s a reason I restrict my input on this issue mostly to images and snarky commentary.

311 thedopefishlives  Apr 28, 2014 6:34:53pm

re: #310 klys

There’s a reason I restrict my input on this issue mostly to images and snarky commentary.

You and me both, but that doesn’t mean our contributions aren’t valuable.

312 wrenchwench  Apr 28, 2014 6:35:41pm

re: #308 Pie-onist Overlord

TEH STUPID IT BURNSSS IT BURNSSSSS PRECIOUSSSSS

[Embedded content]

Coincidentally, Bolton paid to promote this tweet:

Click on the link to sign his petition or give him your email address.

313 lehugbox  Apr 28, 2014 6:36:06pm

re: #306 dog philosopher

No offense but that’s incorrect, If Israel hadn’t been attacked from those areas in the first place it would have had no impetus at all to occupy them. The invasion was lost but the Arab League cleverly used the defeat to cripple Israel.

If Jordan and Egypt were to accept ownership over Gaza and a negotiated area of the W-B this would all be over in a second.

314 CuriousLurker  Apr 28, 2014 6:36:32pm

re: #275 lawhawk

Oops, I see now you were responding to any earlier comment. Stll, my answer is basically the same except for the lehugbox part. ;)

315 Charles Johnson  Apr 28, 2014 6:36:53pm

Apparently, thinking of ways to defend the Mighty Greenwald takes up so many of Mona Holland’s synapses that she tends to ignore events in the real world.

316 dog philosopher  Apr 28, 2014 6:37:50pm

re: #313 lehugbox

No offense but that’s incorrect, If Israel hadn’t been attacked from those areas in the first place it would have had no impetus at all to occupy them. The invasion was lost but the Arab League cleverly used the defeat to cripple Israel.

If Jordan and Egypt were to accept ownership over Gaza and a negotiated area of the W-B this would all be over in a second.

well i’m so happy to hear the obvious and simple solution from the person who has everything all figured out

it’s a shame nobody has come forward to send you to the region to set everything straight

317 William Barnett-Lewis  Apr 28, 2014 6:38:55pm

re: #298 TedStriker

D_F has more balls and intellectual honesty than Buck does.

Far more. Plus, unlike Buck, he’s grown considerably over the years I’ve been posting here. He’s still got an unreasonable knee-jerk partisanship problem but I’ll take that over Buck or KT’s trolling any day.

318 wrenchwench  Apr 28, 2014 6:39:21pm

This reminds me of something. Can’t put my finger on it at the moment…

Later, lizards.

319 Floral Giraffe  Apr 28, 2014 6:39:51pm

re: #298 TedStriker

D_F Everyone has more balls and intellectual honesty than Buck does.

FTFY.

320 Belafon  Apr 28, 2014 6:40:00pm

re: #228 lehugbox

Might have something to do with the fact that Israelis keep building on land that most of the world recognizes as belonging to the Palestinians.

321 lehugbox  Apr 28, 2014 6:40:35pm

re: #316 dog philosopher

Well what about my assertion is incorrect?

The Israelis were forced to invade Jordan and Egypt, they didn’t do so out of joy on conquest.

Maybe if Arab nations cared as much about the Palestinians as they do about destroying Israel there would be peace.

322 Gus  Apr 28, 2014 6:41:56pm
323 Killgore Trout  Apr 28, 2014 6:42:09pm

The Conservative Case For Thomas Piketty

Given how fast Piketty is rising to the status of liberal-economist-star (and academic star to boot), I find myself constantly surprised by how little I find to disagree in his work. I found myself basically agreeing with everything in this excellent interview by Matt Yglesias.
….
Piketty seems to be more aware than the average economist of the importance of demography and population growth in generating economic growth.

But on his proposals on inequality, I think this quote aptly sums up his project-which happens to be one I share: “my point is not at all to destroy wealth. My point is to increase wealth mobility and to increase access to wealth.”

324 Backwoods_Sleuth  Apr 28, 2014 6:43:21pm

re: #319 Floral Giraffe

Posted this much earlier today. New baby this morning.

325 CuriousLurker  Apr 28, 2014 6:43:30pm

re: #282 lehugbox

The Arab bloc tried, 3 times, failed. Miserably.

Are you even reading my responses? That’s what I said: “If the Arabs were going to do that, if they were capable of doing that—and here I’m talking about the much wider Arab world—they would’ve done so by now.”

Palestinians have had many militias, and well trained and funded they were, and are.

A militia can’t compete with a fully armed, professional military. Neither of your answers describes how the Palestinians, using their existing means, would be able to subject Israelis to apartheid. Try again.

326 Gus  Apr 28, 2014 6:43:33pm
327 Belafon  Apr 28, 2014 6:43:57pm

re: #249 Killgore Trout

Think of it like Syria, or Biden’s comments on gay marriage. Sometimes, the right person has to say the wrong thing on “accident” in order to get things moving forward.

And sometimes it’s just an obvious observation.

328 lawhawk  Apr 28, 2014 6:44:48pm

re: #313 lehugbox

Jordan has nothing to do with Gaza. Egypt was offered Gaza at Camp David with Sadat, and that went nowhere. Egypt knew exactly what was going on there, and they wanted nothing to do with it. They’re just as interested in cutting Gaza off from the extremists as Israel is - because the extremists are just as likely to go after the secularists in Cairo as Israel.

No one wants to deal with Gaza and the extremists and radicalists that have taken up residence there and have cultivated a climate of hate and fear.

Jordan isn’t going to want to resume control over West Bank either, not when it would likely destabilize the regime, and not after what Fatah attempted to do in 1970 - nearly overthrowing King Hussein in what later became known as Black September.

329 lehugbox  Apr 28, 2014 6:46:36pm

re: #325 CuriousLurker

Look north CuriousLurker, Arab Militias deal quite well with Syria’s Russian trained and equipped Army. Not to mention the Iraqis and Afganis giving it to the U.S.
Do you even modern history bro?

330 dog philosopher  Apr 28, 2014 6:47:23pm

re: #321 lehugbox

Well what about my assertion is incorrect?

The Israelis were forced to invade Jordan and Egypt, they didn’t do so out of joy on conquest.

Maybe if Arab nations cared as much about the Palestinians as they do about destroying Israel there would be peace.

Israeli Public Opinion Polls:
Opinion on Settlements and Outposts

Do you support or oppose dismantling most of the settlements in the territories as part of a peace agreement with the Palestinians? (Truman/PCPSR, October 2010)

Support 45.2%
Oppose 45.9%
DK/NA 8.8%

if only everything were so simple as solving this issue! then there would be peace!!

331 lawhawk  Apr 28, 2014 6:47:32pm

re: #320 Belafon

Might have something to do with the fact that Israelis keep building on land that most of the world recognizes as belonging to the Palestinians.

Settlements have not now, nor ever been, an impediment to peace.

Housing can be transferred. Israel did it with Sinai. That led to a lasting, if cold, peace with Egypt.

Israel unilaterally disengaged from Gaza, uprooting thousands of Israelis from settlements in Gaza.

It has been done before, and it could be done again.

Except that in any deal with the West Bank, the likely outcome would be land swaps. Israel would swap lands behind the Green Line for some land in the West Bank to maintain a contiguous border and communities. There have even been maps/proposals floated over the years showing how that would work.

332 Belafon  Apr 28, 2014 6:47:40pm

re: #276 lehugbox

If I buy the houses on every side of your house, does that give me the right to take your’s over?

333 Gus  Apr 28, 2014 6:47:55pm

334 Dark_Falcon  Apr 28, 2014 6:48:16pm

re: #4 jaunte

Human wrecking ball.”

He would know.

But enough about Miley Cyrus… :D

335 klys  Apr 28, 2014 6:48:26pm

Man, CL, I’m just gonna have to call you bro all the time now.

336 Backwoods_Sleuth  Apr 28, 2014 6:48:28pm

re: #332 Belafon

If I buy the houses on every side of your house, does that give me the right to take your’s over?

If your name is Bundy…

337 lehugbox  Apr 28, 2014 6:48:34pm

re: #332 Belafon

muh false equivalencies

338 Pie-onist Overlord  Apr 28, 2014 6:48:54pm

Here’s your Bullshit Wingnut Meme Of The Day

By a strange, unexplained coincidence, 20% of Americans are 65 years or older.

339 Belafon  Apr 28, 2014 6:50:09pm

re: #331 lawhawk

I was responding to his question about why israel could end up being in control in an apartheid state and not the Palestinians, and I was trying to point out that one side has all the power in the current formation. Not very well, obviously.

340 Dark_Falcon  Apr 28, 2014 6:50:32pm

re: #333 Gus

[Embedded image]

That creature is heavily armed, with fours paws full of sharp claws and a mouth full of sharp teeth. But that’s just the norm for cats.

/Meh

341 Stanley Sea  Apr 28, 2014 6:51:03pm

re: #298 TedStriker

D_F has more balls and intellectual honesty than Buck does.

waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more.

342 Dark_Falcon  Apr 28, 2014 6:51:19pm

re: #339 Belafon

I was responding to his question about why israel could end up being in control in an apartheid state and not the Palestinians, and I was trying to point out that one side has all the power in the current formation. Not very well, obviously.

Not all the power, since Israel cannot make peace unilaterally.

343 ObserverArt  Apr 28, 2014 6:51:56pm

re: #259 Charles Johnson

Charles Johnson @Green_Footballs

The age of constantly connected wireless technology has given human beings an amazing range of ways to be passive aggressive.

That should be on a stone tablet somewhere outside each and every digital tech giant’s office campus.

344 Gus  Apr 28, 2014 6:53:36pm
345 lehugbox  Apr 28, 2014 6:54:19pm

re: #342 Dark_Falcon

Yeah the Arab League has no power at all…

All those UN resolutions are just RWNJ propoganda right?

Whatever, Anne Bayevsky does work at the UN you wanna know a broad with balls, shes the one.

346 ObserverArt  Apr 28, 2014 6:54:24pm

re: #274 Killgore Trout

I’m not a fan of forced apologies after outrages. He’s welcome to apologize if he wants to or was asked by the White House but I’d rather people be allowed to say what they mean.

This is your best joke yet!

And you’ve been setting it up all evening. Nice work.

347 Stanley Sea  Apr 28, 2014 6:54:39pm

re: #308 Pie-onist Overlord

TEH STUPID IT BURNSSS IT BURNSSSSS PRECIOUSSSSS

[Embedded content]

pretty much summed it up.

348 Gus  Apr 28, 2014 6:54:55pm
349 Gus  Apr 28, 2014 6:55:09pm
350 Dark_Falcon  Apr 28, 2014 6:55:25pm

re: #298 TedStriker

D_F has more balls and intellectual honesty than Buck does.

re: #341 Stanley Sea

waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more.

Thank you both for your kind words.

351 dog philosopher  Apr 28, 2014 6:56:21pm

re: #321 lehugbox

Well what about my assertion is incorrect?

The Israelis were forced to invade Jordan and Egypt, they didn’t do so out of joy on conquest.

Maybe if Arab nations cared as much about the Palestinians as they do about destroying Israel there would be peace.

the beef i have with your point of view is that it is, as nearly as i can make it out and simply stated:

everything would be great if the arabs just accepted a nice israeli peace settlement

unfortunately what you miss is that nobody in the entire region, including israelis, agrees with anybody else

so much less do they agree with you

some israelis i know tell me that palestinians are subhuman and must be made to leave eretz yisroel, in which they include the west bank and gaza

some palestinians i know tell me to shove my ‘let’s live in peace and harmony’ up my ass and tell my co-religionists to go back to where they they came from, in their mind, europe, before they fry each and every jew found in their land in dirty olive oil

go talk to them with your ‘obvious’ solutions

352 Charles Johnson  Apr 28, 2014 6:56:40pm

And now I am sensing a distinct whiff of eau de crackpot.

353 Stanley Sea  Apr 28, 2014 6:56:57pm

re: #312 wrenchwench

Coincidentally, Bolton paid to promote this tweet:

[Embedded content]

Click on the link to sign his petition or give him your email address.

Door opens cha ching! People are making money off this. Look carefully at who is. Well, Bolton is obvious. He hasn’t had a job since….?

354 klys  Apr 28, 2014 6:57:15pm

re: #352 Charles Johnson

And now I am sensing a distinct whiff of eau de crackpot.

I don’t understand how a comment like “broad with balls” could possibly make you think that.

////

355 Belafon  Apr 28, 2014 6:57:18pm

re: #342 Dark_Falcon

Good point, but enough power to bully. And it’s not like an apartheid government has complete control over everything that goes on. I agree with everyone mentioned that a one-state solution wouldn’t work.

356 GeneJockey  Apr 28, 2014 6:57:22pm

re: #338 Pie-onist Overlord

Here’s your Bullshit Wingnut Meme Of The Day

[Embedded content]

By a strange, unexplained coincidence, 20% of Americans are 65 years or older.

Lazy old bastards! This is America! We work till we drop dead.

357 Charles Johnson  Apr 28, 2014 6:58:42pm

re: #354 klys

I don’t understand how a comment like “broad with balls” could possibly make you think that.

////

It’s a talent I have.

358 Gus  Apr 28, 2014 6:58:55pm

359 CuriousLurker  Apr 28, 2014 6:58:57pm

re: #329 lehugbox

Look north CuriousLurker, Arab Militias deal quite well with Syria’s Russian trained and equipped Army. Not to mention the Iraqis and Afganis giving it to the U.S.
Do you even modern history bro?

I’m not your “bro” and the West Bank & Gaza aren’t Syria or Afghanistan or Iraq. None of those Arab militias you mentioned militarily defeated the armed forces of the governments they were fighting, nor did they subsequently place their respective citizens in an apartheid type situation. Try again.

360 lehugbox  Apr 28, 2014 6:59:33pm

i24news.tv

Israel’s High Court of Justice ruled Monday in favor of a human rights organization’s petition claiming the Palestinians who live in Area C of the West Bank, which is under full Israeli civil and security control, are discriminated against and excluded in matters of planning and building rights.

I mean Israel has it’s nutjobs but common. They do try to be fair.

361 Floral Giraffe  Apr 28, 2014 7:01:27pm

re: #324 Backwoods_Sleuth

Awwwwww! So adorable! Thank you!

362 Belafon  Apr 28, 2014 7:02:59pm

re: #360 lehugbox

So, they’re begging for forgiveness rather than asking for permission.

363 Backwoods_Sleuth  Apr 28, 2014 7:04:42pm

re: #361 Floral Giraffe

Awwwwww! So adorable! Thank you!

Cincinnati Zoo’s TL has lots and lots of pictures since this morning.

364 Gus  Apr 28, 2014 7:06:03pm

re: #361 Floral Giraffe

Awwwwww! So adorable! Thank you!

365 Pie-onist Overlord  Apr 28, 2014 7:07:11pm

Right now I’m thinking of what pie I should bake this week.

366 Dark_Falcon  Apr 28, 2014 7:07:32pm

re: #358 Gus

[Embedded image]

The classic painting of the Battle of Peleliu, Pacific Theater, WWII. Fought in the autumn of 1944, it took far longer than planned for the US to take Peleliu from the Japanese. In large part this was because Peleliu was the first battle in which the Japanese switched from their previous tactic of ‘waterline defense’ to a system of defense in depth.

367 Backwoods_Sleuth  Apr 28, 2014 7:07:52pm

re: #364 Gus

368 b_sharp  Apr 28, 2014 7:10:07pm

re: #338 Pie-onist Overlord

Here’s your Bullshit Wingnut Meme Of The Day

[Embedded content]

By a strange, unexplained coincidence, 20% of Americans are 65 years or older.

Only 11.8% of families with children have nobody employed.

369 Backwoods_Sleuth  Apr 28, 2014 7:10:20pm

What could possibly go wrong?

370 CuriousLurker  Apr 28, 2014 7:10:22pm

re: #359 CuriousLurker

re: #329 lehugbox

Look north CuriousLurker, Arab Militias deal quite well with Syria’s Russian trained and equipped Army. Not to mention the Iraqis and Afganis giving it to the U.S.
Do you even modern history bro?

I’m not your “bro” and the West Bank & Gaza aren’t Syria or Afghanistan or Iraq. None of those Arab militias you mentioned militarily defeated the armed forces of the governments they were fighting, nor did they subsequently place their respective citizens in an apartheid type situation. Try again.

You know what? Never mind, don’t—I’m bored and I’m 99.9% sure I’m wasting my time. I’m outta here to go read some more Amos Oz. At least he makes sense. Later, lizards.

371 Gus  Apr 28, 2014 7:11:12pm

372 RealityBasedSteve  Apr 28, 2014 7:11:41pm

re: #364 Gus

[Embedded content]

When I win the PowerBall… I am SO getting one of those little tiny miniature giraffes like in the commercial. (And I don’t care that they don’t really exist… I want one anyhow!!!!)

RBS

373 dog philosopher  Apr 28, 2014 7:12:11pm

re: #360 lehugbox

i24news.tv

I mean Israel has it’s nutjobs but common. They do try to be fair.

you don’t realize that about half of israelis are opposed to any solution that involves turning the west bank and gaza into palestinian states? more, if you stipulate that all the jewish settlers there must leave in order to make that happen? that ytizhak rabin was assassinated for promoting a point of view like yours?

374 William Barnett-Lewis  Apr 28, 2014 7:12:43pm

re: #366 Dark_Falcon

The classic painting of the Battle of Peleliu, Pacific Theater, WWII. Fought in the autumn of 1944, it took far longer than planned for the US to take Peleliu from the Japanese. In large part this was because Peleliu was the first battle in which the Japanese switched from their previous tactic of ‘waterline defense’ to a system of defense in depth.

A hellish battle, almost as bad as Tarawa and almost, though not quite, as worthless an altar to sacrifice our Marines upon :(

A great painting as well. It probably captures the reality as well as any painting can within the boundaries of Lea’s era.

375 dog philosopher  Apr 28, 2014 7:13:02pm

re: #371 Gus

[Embedded image]

made me laugh!

376 Dark_Falcon  Apr 28, 2014 7:13:16pm

re: #366 Dark_Falcon

Another worthwhile note about Peleliu: It was the only Central Pacific island battle where the Japanese were able to send reinforcements after it had begun. The Japanese sent soldiers by landing barge from Koror (another island in the same group), and though many were killed en route, at least a battalion made it through. Ultimately, one the first objectives of the US Army reinforcements sent to Peleliu was to take the northern tip of the island to cut off the flow of Japanese reinforcements.

377 Stanley Sea  Apr 28, 2014 7:13:35pm

re: #348 Gus

[Embedded content]

They’re working late?

holy hell

378 Gus  Apr 28, 2014 7:14:27pm
379 sagehen  Apr 28, 2014 7:15:07pm

re: #295 lawhawk

And this is why my longstanding thesis about the Arab-Israeli peace process still stands. Backchannels and secret negotiations are the only way to get breakthroughs. Public diplomacy isn’t going to get deals done, since the parties will get the kinds of concessions only in secret. Once the moves are made public, it only serves to harden the sides against compromise, and lets the extremists push the sides apart.

And right now, neither side has a leader who is willing to put their life on the line to make a deal happen.

Rabin and Sadat are not available for comment?

380 freetoken  Apr 28, 2014 7:15:54pm

For Cruz and Bachmann, “Israel” is a magick word for a magickal land. And their political posturing for their supporters is about this magick, it has nothing to do with the real world of American foreign policy.

381 Backwoods_Sleuth  Apr 28, 2014 7:16:09pm

re: #378 Gus

That lightning strike on the utility pole?
That’s why you unplug everything in the house.

382 ObserverArt  Apr 28, 2014 7:16:43pm

re: #378 Gus

[Embedded content]

Wow. What a dramatic sky. I hate the storms, but as an artist, I love the color and design of Mom Nature the Artist.

383 William Barnett-Lewis  Apr 28, 2014 7:16:48pm

re: #376 Dark_Falcon

Another worthwhile note about Peleliu: It was the only Central Pacific island battle where the Japanese were able to send reinforcements after it had begun. The Japanese sent soldiers by landing barge from Koror (another island in the same group), and though many were killed en route, at least a battalion made it through. Ultimately, one the first objectives of the US Army reinforcements sent to Peleliu was to take the northern tip of the island to cut off the flow of Japanese reinforcements.

I presume you’ve read “With The Old Breed” by Eugene Sledge?

384 thedopefishlives  Apr 28, 2014 7:16:58pm

re: #381 Backwoods_Sleuth

That lightning strike on the utility pole?
That’s why you unplug everything in the house.

That’s God saying, “Surge protector this, bitches.”

385 Dark_Falcon  Apr 28, 2014 7:18:17pm

re: #369 Backwoods_Sleuth

What could possibly go wrong?

[Embedded content]

Correction: Only the Florida House has passed the bill. Its bottled up in committee in the state senate and will likely not get out in time to pass this session.

Warning: The link leads to Fox News, but its an AP story.

386 Jay in Oregon  Apr 28, 2014 7:18:52pm

re: #291 Gus

She eventually realized her mistake, but her reaction was very telling:

Someone tried to point out that she was making a serious mistake and her reaction was to double down. Classic dudebro mentality: how dare you question their integrity or competence!?

The future of journalism, indeed.

387 Dark_Falcon  Apr 28, 2014 7:18:53pm

re: #383 William Barnett-Lewis

I presume you’ve read “With The Old Breed” by Eugene Sledge?

I’m afraid not.

388 RealityBasedSteve  Apr 28, 2014 7:19:33pm

re: #381 Backwoods_Sleuth

That lightning strike on the utility pole?
That’s why you unplug everything in the house.

I remember one storm here in Clarksville… Lying in bed with my future ex… bolt of lighting must have hit the powerline near the house, because the whole house shook and light CAME OUT OF THE OUTLETS… We both looked at each other, neither of us wanted to be the first to say “Do you just see that?”

RBS

389 thedopefishlives  Apr 28, 2014 7:19:40pm

re: #386 Jay in Oregon

She eventually realized her mistake, but her reaction was very telling:

[Embedded content]

Someone tried to point out that she was making a serious mistake and her reaction was to double down. Classic dudebro mentality: how dare you question their integrity or competence!?

The future of journalism, indeed.

I am entertained. It’s better than reality TV.

390 Jay in Oregon  Apr 28, 2014 7:22:39pm

re: #364 Gus

I love baby giraffes; I like to imagine that they’re the result of Jim Henson being allowed to design a real animal.

391 Gus  Apr 28, 2014 7:22:41pm
392 Bear  Apr 28, 2014 7:22:47pm

re: #365 Pie-onist Overlord

Chocolate Cream please.

393 Stanley Sea  Apr 28, 2014 7:24:05pm

re: #371 Gus

[Embedded image]

please make tweetable?

394 ObserverArt  Apr 28, 2014 7:24:16pm

re: #381 Backwoods_Sleuth

That lightning strike on the utility pole?
That’s why you unplug everything in the house.

I know some people that had a custom built house stuck away in the woods, northeast of Columbus. They were both at work, kids in school when a lighting storm came through and one of the things it struck was the lonely single pole back of their property AEP put in to reach their house with a drop. The lighting went down the pole followed the drop straight into the main breaker box and caught the wall around it on fire. Since it was raining, and the house was way back in the woods, no one really saw it catch and burn. By the time it was noticed…the house was pretty much shot. All wood type house too, inside and out so burn it did.

395 sagehen  Apr 28, 2014 7:24:17pm

re: #365 Pie-onist Overlord

Right now I’m thinking of what pie I should bake this week.

Peach.

396 William Barnett-Lewis  Apr 28, 2014 7:24:50pm

re: #387 Dark_Falcon

I’m afraid not.

Ah. Do so. He was a mortar man in the Marine Corps at at Peleliu and Okinawa and made notes along the way in his bible. It is the Best, if hardest to read (he’s too honest - it’s really hard reading at times) war memoir of the Pacific theater.

Only Company Commander (from Europe) beats it on my list and that’s only because the author went on to write the best history of a battle he, Charles B. MacDonald, was a company commander in - The Bulge - “A Time For Trumpets”.

397 klys  Apr 28, 2014 7:25:09pm

re: #391 Gus

I love thunderstorms.

I hate the death and damage they cause, but they’re an incredibly beautiful natural phenomena.

398 Gus  Apr 28, 2014 7:25:39pm
399 klys  Apr 28, 2014 7:27:14pm

re: #398 Gus

I can forgive a brain fart.

Doubling down and refusing to believe that you might possibly be wrong - and not running a quick Google check - hahahahahaha, no, you deserve every bit of humiliation that you get as a result.

400 Gus  Apr 28, 2014 7:28:26pm

re: #399 klys

I can forgive a brain fart.

Doubling down and refusing to believe that you might possibly be wrong - and not running a quick Google check - hahahahahaha, no, you deserve every bit of humiliation that you get as a result.

And that’s what she did too. Ha!

401 Gus  Apr 28, 2014 7:28:52pm

This is good.

402 Belafon  Apr 28, 2014 7:31:32pm

re: #378 Gus

That is one massive supercell.

403 thedopefishlives  Apr 28, 2014 7:33:45pm

re: #397 klys

I love thunderstorms.

I hate the death and damage they cause, but they’re an incredibly beautiful natural phenomena.

I’m with you on this one. Thunderstorms and tornadoes have always fascinated me. If I hadn’t been a programmer, I had a decent chance of being a storm chaser.

Night lizards.

404 ObserverArt  Apr 28, 2014 7:34:22pm

Jeffrey Goldberg has been pretty hot lately on a lot of topics. I can almost sense a feeling of rage building in him with the sad state of journalism. He is getting feisty and might just blow up one of these days.

405 Gus  Apr 28, 2014 7:34:43pm

I guess the wingnuts will now say Jeffrey Goldberg is a far left extremist and hates Israel.

406 Backwoods_Sleuth  Apr 28, 2014 7:36:20pm

Birmingham, Alabama

407 Stanley Sea  Apr 28, 2014 7:37:56pm

re: #394 ObserverArt

I know some people that had a custom built house stuck away in the woods, northeast of Columbus. They were both at work, kids in school when a lighting storm came through and one of the things it struck was the lonely single pole back of their property AEP put in to reach their house with a drop. The lighting went down the pole followed the drop straight into the main breaker box and caught the wall around it on fire. Since it was raining, and the house was way back in the woods, no one really saw it catch and burn. By the time it was noticed…the house was pretty much shot. All wood type house too, inside and out so burn it did.

huge :(

408 Dark_Falcon  Apr 28, 2014 7:38:56pm

re: #405 Gus

I guess the wingnuts will now say Jeffrey Goldberg is a far left extremist and hates Israel.

Likely so. I won’t say that, because he did make the point that Israel has put deals on the table twice that in a just world would have resulted in a peace treaty. But in both cases the leaders of the Palestinians refused, in large part part because they’d done nothing to prepare their people for a peace deal. Likely because even changing their propaganda would result in an assassination attempt.

409 ObserverArt  Apr 28, 2014 7:39:09pm

re: #405 Gus

I guess the wingnuts will now say Jeffrey Goldberg is a far left extremist and hates Israel.

I watched Meet the Press yesterday to see how Gregory would be with the info coming out about him and his ratings and NBC hiring witch doctors…and I’m glad I did. Goldberg was on and it was a little tight between him and Lowry from National Review. I think a good debate could have been had from those two.

410 jaunte  Apr 28, 2014 7:39:28pm

re: #406 Backwoods_Sleuth

My wife is there now. Trying to drive her mother from Florida to northern Mississippi today, and decided to stop in Birmingham to wait out the storm front.
radar.weather.gov

411 Backwoods_Sleuth  Apr 28, 2014 7:40:42pm

re: #410 jaunte

My wife is there now. Trying to drive her mother from Florida to northern Mississippi today, and decided to stop in Birmingham to wait out the storm front.
radar.weather.gov

Wise woman, she is.

412 Gus  Apr 28, 2014 7:42:04pm

Derp.

413 Stanley Sea  Apr 28, 2014 7:42:09pm

re: #408 Dark_Falcon

Likely so. I won’t say that, because he did make the point that Israel has put deals on the table twice that in a just world would have resulted in a peace treaty. But in both cases the leaders of the Palestinians refused, in large part part because they’d done nothing to prepare their people for a peace deal. Likely because even changing their propaganda would result in an assassination attempt.

Goldberg in my mind is nowhere nowhere left wing.

He just has great clarity.

I’ve learned from him.

414 Stanley Sea  Apr 28, 2014 7:42:54pm

re: #410 jaunte

My wife is there now. Trying to drive her mother from Florida to northern Mississippi today, and decided to stop in Birmingham to wait out the storm front.
radar.weather.gov

oh boy.

415 Stanley Sea  Apr 28, 2014 7:43:37pm

re: #412 Gus

ya know Guster, don’t go there.

416 Gus  Apr 28, 2014 7:43:50pm

Let’s see. Pick one.

• Labor Zionism
• Liberal Zionism
• Nationalist Zionism
• Religious Zionism
• Green Zionism
• Neo-Zionism and Post-Zionism
• Zionism and Haredi Judaism

417 Gus  Apr 28, 2014 7:45:35pm
418 Gus  Apr 28, 2014 7:46:33pm
419 Dark_Falcon  Apr 28, 2014 7:47:22pm

re: #415 Stanley Sea

ya know Guster, don’t go there.

Quite Concur. Forget it, Jake, it’s Chinatown.

You tried, Gus, but Ms. Holland has proven to be Stuck on ‘Stupid’.

420 Backwoods_Sleuth  Apr 28, 2014 7:50:07pm
421 klys  Apr 28, 2014 7:52:26pm

Toe seems to be healing up nicely after I attempted to remove about a thumb-nail size section of skin from the end with the sidewalk in SF on Saturday.

Still ugly as shit, but no sign of infection (which is good, because all we had on hand to deal with it initially were tissues and some out of date Neosporin).

422 William Barnett-Lewis  Apr 28, 2014 7:54:08pm

re: #412 Gus

Ain’t worth the effort.

423 GeneJockey  Apr 28, 2014 7:54:40pm

re: #405 Gus

I guess the wingnuts will now say Jeffrey Goldberg is a far left extremist and hates Israel.

Like I said above, Michele Bachmann already expressed her disappointment with American Jews for not being as extreme as she is in her support for the most extreme possible “Pro-Israel” positions.

424 Stanley Sea  Apr 28, 2014 7:56:20pm

night yall. Take care.

425 RealityBasedSteve  Apr 28, 2014 7:57:10pm

re: #421 klys

Toe seems to be healing up nicely after I attempted to remove about a thumb-nail size section of skin from the end with the sidewalk in SF on Saturday.

Still ugly as shit, but no sign of infection (which is good, because all we had on hand to deal with it initially were tissues and some out of date Neosporin).

I remember you posting that you stubbed (jammed) your toe so hard that it drew blood. For some reason I imagined you did it indoors. Neosporin is great stuff, I always keep some in my workshop and when I’m out camping / touring. Never had an infection using it.

Love to hear how you managed to do it, was it a case of the sidewalk just suddenly jumping up and attacking you from cover? That’s the way they do it you know… lie there all still till you get close, then spring out at you.

RBS

426 jaunte  Apr 28, 2014 7:59:02pm
427 Gus  Apr 28, 2014 8:01:51pm

Press Statement
John Kerry
Secretary of State
Washington, DC
April 28, 2014

For more than thirty years in the United States Senate, I didn’t just speak words in support of Israel, I walked the walk when it came time to vote and when it came time to fight. As Secretary of State, I have spent countless hours working with Prime Minister Netanyahu and Justice Minister Livni because I believe in the kind of future that Israel not only wants, but Israel deserves. I want to see a two state solution that results in a secure Jewish state and a prosperous Palestinian state, and I’ve actually worked for it.

I will not allow my commitment to Israel to be questioned by anyone, particularly for partisan, political purposes, so I want to be crystal clear about what I believe and what I don’t believe.

First, Israel is a vibrant democracy and I do not believe, nor have I ever stated, publicly or privately, that Israel is an apartheid state or that it intends to become one. Anyone who knows anything about me knows that without a shred of doubt.

Second, I have been around long enough to also know the power of words to create a misimpression, even when unintentional, and if I could rewind the tape, I would have chosen a different word to describe my firm belief that the only way in the long term to have a Jewish state and two nations and two peoples living side by side in peace and security is through a two state solution. In the long term, a unitary, binational state cannot be the democratic Jewish state that Israel deserves or the prosperous state with full rights that the Palestinian people deserve. That’s what I said, and it’s also what Prime Minister Netanyahu has said. While Justice Minister Livni, former Prime Ministers Barak and Ohlmert have all invoked the specter of apartheid to underscore the dangers of a unitary state for the future, it is a word best left out of the debate here at home.

428 klys  Apr 28, 2014 8:01:52pm

re: #425 RealityBasedSteve

I remember you posting that you stubbed (jammed) your toe so hard that it drew blood. For some reason I imagined you did it indoors. Neosporin is great stuff, I always keep some in my workshop and when I’m out camping / touring. Never had an infection using it.

Love to hear how you managed to do it, was it a case of the sidewalk just suddenly jumping up and attacking you from cover? That’s the way they do it you know… lie there all still till you get close, then spring out at you.

RBS

We were walking around SF in the North Beach area (at that point) when I stumbled on an uneven sidewalk bit. The husband managed to keep me from falling but I wear flip-flops pretty much year round and my big toe impacted and scraped along it pretty hard. Looked down and it was dripping blood pretty quickly, actually.

Let’s just say I’m not the most graceful person ever?

Of course, because it’s on the end of my big toe, it’s incredibly awkward to deal with. Now we have some of that nice flexible sticks-to-itself wrap-tape and gauze pads and have antisepticed/Neosporin’ed the heck out of it repeatedly, but immediately afterwards the options were much more limited.

It turned out that all the cleaning wipes he had in his mini-first aid kit had long since gone dry. I need to update his this week, and put together one for myself. I carry an immediate supply of most typical drugs I might need, but not first aid stuff. That needs fixing.

429 klys  Apr 28, 2014 8:08:26pm

They’re saying tornado on the ground in Birmingham, on the stream I’m watching.

These continue to be nasty looking storms. Stay safe.

430 Decatur Deb  Apr 28, 2014 8:09:15pm

re: #369 Backwoods_Sleuth

What could possibly go wrong?

Against Parents And Teachers Wishes, FL Legislature OK’s Guns In Schools

Stand your blackboard.

431 GeneJockey  Apr 28, 2014 8:09:18pm

re: #428 klys

We were walking around SF in the North Beach area (at that point) when I stumbled on an uneven sidewalk bit. The husband managed to keep me from falling but I wear flip-flops pretty much year round and my big toe impacted and scraped along it pretty hard. Looked down and it was dripping blood pretty quickly, actually.

Let’s just say I’m not the most graceful person ever?

Of course, because it’s on the end of my big toe, it’s incredibly awkward to deal with. Now we have some of that nice flexible sticks-to-itself wrap-tape and gauze pads and have antisepticed/Neosporin’ed the heck out of it repeatedly, but immediately afterwards the options were much more limited.

It turned out that all the cleaning wipes he had in his mini-first aid kit had long since gone dry. I need to update his this week, and put together one for myself. I carry an immediate supply of most typical drugs I might need, but not first aid stuff. That needs fixing.

Clumsy person wearing flipflops on uneven pavement. What could go wrong?
//

432 klys  Apr 28, 2014 8:10:58pm

re: #431 GeneJockey

Clumsy person wearing flipflops on uneven pavement. What could go wrong?
//

In my defense it’s the first time ever that I’ve pulled that much skin off.

>.>

433 dog philosopher  Apr 28, 2014 8:11:50pm

re: #427 Gus

Press Statement
John Kerry
Secretary of State
Washington, DC
April 28, 2014

well one thing i like about john kerry is his habit of telling his critics to shove it up their ass

434 Decatur Deb  Apr 28, 2014 8:13:57pm

Dau2 and grandkid are (barely) inside one of the Birmingham tornado warning boxes.

435 GeneJockey  Apr 28, 2014 8:14:11pm

re: #432 klys

In my defense it’s the first time ever that I’ve pulled that much skin off.

>.>

Might I suggest steel-toed sandals?
//

436 De Kolta Chair  Apr 29, 2014 9:29:02am

What’s next, Ted? Jews who vote for Democrats — as most already do — should be deported, or at the least forced to convert to Christian Dominionism?


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