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George W Bush, the former United States president, has insisted that the “waterboarding” of terrorist suspects by the CIA saved British lives by stopping Islamist attacks on Heathrow and Canary Wharf.
6 comments
1 |
Killgore Trout Nov 8, 2010 5:21:54pm |
Interesting. We were debating this issue the other day and couldn’t find any claims of plots averted or lives saved.
| 2 |
Killgore Trout Nov 8, 2010 5:45:59pm |
BTW, there’s a very short and very cool rendition scene at the end of 4 Lions.
3 |
FreedomMoon Nov 8, 2010 6:54:01pm |
It’s hard for me to make the moral argument as to whether or not it’s acceptable for water-boarding to be used as an interrogation method. I mean there are so many implications and repercussions involved, it really becomes a complicated battle of ethics and logic, literally to the 100th power.
4 |
Super-ego Nov 8, 2010 8:34:34pm |
re: #3 tacuba14
IMO: If fake drowning someone saves someones life, it’s worth it. It’s not immoral.
Burning someone, pulling finger nails, shocking, or cutting off fingers to get info would be immoral. Life is precious, but not that the expense of another.
| 5 |
Bob Levin Nov 8, 2010 10:39:59pm |
And just to put this in the context of the discussion—after 9/11 it was clear that US intelligence was completely caught off guard and was otherwise unprepared. We had no network of informants, no programs for getting a steady stream of intelligence from other sources. The waterboarding of KSM was a result of a long chain of screw-ups by our professional intelligence services.
6 |
Bob Dillon Nov 9, 2010 12:12:24am |
re: #5 Bob Levin
America’s cadre of spies, at least in the old fashioned, cloak-and-dagger notion of the term, withered and just about died in the decades since the 1970s, when a wave of scandals rocked the CIA and its sister agencies. As a result, the CIA and other agencies increasingly came to rely on high technology — satellites, eavesdropping stations and other wizardry — plus reports from allied intelligence services. Limitations designed to prevent agents from getting killed, or from getting involved in assassinations or dealing with contacts with suspect human rights records, further discouraged human spying.
Lt. Gen. Patrick Hughes, who ran the Defense Intelligence Agency from during the late 1990s, says the U.S. intelligence community is moving to rebuild its cadre of spies.
“However, the best spymasters and spies in the world are only as good as the policies they work under,” he says, “and we have a history of being very conservative — risk averse — with regard to their operational activities.”
[congress had a hand in this - limitations placed with good intentions and disastrous results]
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