Pages
Excellent thoughts on a most perplexing topic…
In this, the season of giving, I propose we give novelty a chance – novelty, that is, in the debate between atheists and people of faith. Let’s move beyond the stale polemics that insult everybody’s intelligence.
8 comments
1 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Mon, Dec 13, 2010 6:10:17pm |
Hm. When he writes inanities like "It may be that atheists themselves are inadvertently affirming the existence of a loving God", he hardly advances any debate. I'll take William Lane Craig over him any moment. At least the former makes the arguments in formal-logical form and they can be seriously debated.
| 2 |
Daniel Ballard Mon, Dec 13, 2010 6:12:18pm |
re: #1 Sergey Romanov
An unkind characterization. The rest of the piece serves well, as much as you may disagree with one part or another.
| 3 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Mon, Dec 13, 2010 6:21:52pm |
No time for mushy nonsense. The guy wants to elevate the discussion. Yet he takes needless jabs at atheists ["atheists are only rehashing what’s already been said umpteen times" (and theists don't?); "Beyond a more humane tone, the debate could use fresh substance, too. The arguments of the new atheists remind me of a passage from the Bible in which it’s said that “there is nothing new under the sun.” " (what about fresh substance from theists?)] and his only contribution is the bit I quoted above, which is not even an argument, but simply a claim.
Again, to see the real elevated dialogue between a theist and an atheist see, for example, the book of articles by William Lane Craig and Quentin Smith Theism, Atheism, and Big Bang Cosmology. Both are distinguished philosophers, who argue for their respective positions from logical standpoints.
| 4 |
Daniel Ballard Mon, Dec 13, 2010 6:26:27pm |
re: #3 Sergey Romanov
I will do that reading. At least add it to my list.
BTW, that is a lady... I recommend you take a peek at her site. A Muslim woman openly blogging the way she does has earned my respect. Let me know what you think.
| 5 |
Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton Mon, Dec 13, 2010 6:33:04pm |
re: #4 Rightwingconspirator
OK, I've seen her before. She's good. I'm not taking the substance of what I said back, but would try to decrease some of the harshness if I knew it was her beforehand. What she wrote was still that feel-good new-agey stuff that doesn't add to knowledge, unlike the serious philosophical body of work. I hope it doesn't detract from her other work.
| 6 |
b_Snark Mon, Dec 13, 2010 7:30:24pm |
Had I more time I would expand on what you've said Sergey. Her cries for civility are nice, but her points are weak. She also apparently misunderstood Hitchen's point so her point about NK's use of science and rationality, and being barking mad is nothing but a non sequitur.
| 7 |
CuriousLurker Mon, Dec 13, 2010 7:50:58pm |
If she was trying to make a point, I missed it. Her personality & approach rubs me the wrong way anyway, so maybe I really wasn't paying attention.
I guess I don't really get why believers can't simply let atheists be atheists, and vice versa. Don't insult me or try to shove your unbelief down my throat, and I'll show you the same courtesy. I dislike long, drawn out debates as there usually seems to be an excess of ego involved. They remind me of a Mullah Nasruddin story:
Wasted Time
Nasruddin, ferrying a pedant across a piece of rough water, said something ungrammatical to him. "Have you never studied grammar?", asked the scholar. "No.", replied Nasruddin. "Then half your life has been wasted." A few minutes later Nasruddin turned to the passenger, "Have you ever learned to swim?" "No. Why?", asked the man. "Then ALL your life has been wasted—we are sinking."
;o)
| 8 |
Bob Levin Mon, Dec 13, 2010 10:41:20pm |
I know that there has been a long philosophical tradition of arguments between atheists and theists, but I suspect it comes from both sides having a strong belief in the use of rhetorical logic. As in: I can use precise logic to convince you of this position, whichever position.
It's been how many years since David Hume? I think we can safely say that this is one area where persuasive logic will not work.
And we can all thank Gd for this, or else the doorbell would never stop ringing.
Once Praised, the Settlement to Help Sickened BP Oil Spill Workers Leaves Most With Nearly Nothing When a deadly explosion destroyed BP’s Deepwater Horizon drilling rig in the Gulf of Mexico, 134 million gallons of crude erupted into the sea over the next three months — and tens of thousands of ordinary people were hired ...
Cheechako
Alone in a Bathroom: The Fear and Uncertainty of a Post-Roe Medication Abortion Angel tucked two white pills into each side of her mouth, bracing herself as they began to dissolve. Her deepest fears and anxieties took over. Angel had wanted to talk to a doctor before she took the pills to ... Cheechako
They Were Desperate to Get Pregnant. Then IVF Gave Them Extra Embryos. One morning last spring, Ashley Harrolle put her 1-year-old daughter down for a nap and went to the kitchen. She pulled up her fertility clinic’s contact information. It was time to make the call. In a freezer several hundred ... CheechakoJoe Bacon ✅
March FavoritesYou've seen these all already but looking back, just because. These are my favorite shots of this last month. That 1937 Zeiss Sonnar is such a gloriously wonderful bit of glass. Thanks for looking.
William Lewis
Russia’s New Combat Robots Blown Up by Drones Near Avdiivka When we landed on the moon, I thought about how science fiction had become real. Now, the robot wars have begun. It's more poignant somehow on the ground than in the missile wars we have in the air as ...
Rightwingconspirator
Why Did More Than 1,000 People Die After Police Subdued Them With Force That Isn’t Meant to Kill? An investigation led by The Associated Press has found that, over a decade, more than 1,000 people died after police subdued them through physical holds, stun guns, body blows and other force not intended to be lethal. More: Why ... CheechakoKGxvi
The Pandemic Cost 7 Million Lives, but Talks to Prevent a Repeat Stall In late 2021, as the world reeled from the arrival of the highly contagious omicron variant of the coronavirus, representatives of almost 200 countries met - some online, some in-person in Geneva - hoping to forestall a future worldwide ... Cheechako
Texas County at Center of Border Fight Is Overwhelmed by Migrant Deaths EAGLE PASS, Tex. - The undertaker lighted a cigarette and held it between his latex-gloved fingers as he stood over the bloated body bag lying in the bed of his battered pickup truck. The woman had been fished out ... Cheechako
