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10 comments

1 freetoken  Sat, Aug 27, 2011 7:56:25pm

Yes, the Telegraph, as is often the case, is wrong - intentionally. They really don't have any other agenda but to serve their own interests, which is to cater to the more "conservative" of the English-speaking world, which is why it has long been called the "Torygraph". However, the Tory party these days isn't so much into science denial, so the Telegraph has moved it customer target to include the American Tea-Partying crowd, and their sympathizers in the UK.

2 KingKenrod  Sat, Aug 27, 2011 8:47:53pm

Delingpole has been making the rounds as a Heritage Foundation shill. But there is something to this, in that CERN scientists believe cosmic rays have a greater role in cloud formation than previously believed. You can read about it in respectable publications if you poke around. Here's a write-up in The Guardian.

3 Randall Gross  Sat, Aug 27, 2011 9:12:21pm

Delingpole is an infamous climate denialist. If you read the paper it doesn't really say what they are saying.

"Some additional vapour or vapours, together with sulphuric acid, is controlling the formation rate of aerosols in the atmosphere and so affecting climate, so it is important to identify these and understand whether their sources are natural or associated with human activities," Kirkby told the Guardian.

"If they come from human activities, it raises the prospect of a new climate impact from humans. Alternatively, if they have a natural origin, we have the potential for a new climate feedback. What is clear is that the treatment of aerosol formation in climate models has to be substantially revised."

Aerosols are tiny liquid or solid particles suspended in the atmosphere. Above a certain size they can become "seeds" for cloud droplets.

Around half of atmospheric aerosols come from the Earth's surface, in the form of dust, sand or sea spray, or as particles from burning biomass or fossil fuels. The rest are produced in the air when vapour particles condense and grow into clusters.

In a second discovery, the researchers found that cosmic rays from the depths of space can increase the formation rates of aerosols by between two and tenfold in some cold regions of the atmosphere.

However, the finding leaves open the question of whether cosmic rays affect Earth's climate in a significant way, because the aerosol particles studied were too small to seed cloud droplets.

In future work, Kirkby's group aims to settle whether or not cosmic rays affect cloud cover and so give a clearer picture of how some variability in the planet's climate might be influenced by the rays and the sun's activity.

4 Randall Gross  Sat, Aug 27, 2011 9:13:35pm

They are trying to say that Cosmic rays magically make extra clouds, when the paper says they can't conclude that....

"Our work leaves open the possibility that cosmic rays could influence the climate. However, at this stage, there is absolutely no way we can say that they do," said Kirkby.

5 Randall Gross  Sat, Aug 27, 2011 9:15:50pm

Here is the link to the actual paper, it's late so I will hold on reading it until tomorrow.

[Link: www.nature.com...]

6 Randall Gross  Sat, Aug 27, 2011 9:18:33pm

grr arrgh. It's subscription.

7 Interesting Times  Sat, Aug 27, 2011 9:38:26pm

Skeptical Science has already addressed this. I'll just recycle my previous comment about it:

ConCERN Trolling on Cosmic Rays, Clouds, and Climate Change

Depending on where you get your science news, you might be hearing claims to the effect that CLOUD at CERN has “proven that cosmic rays drive climate change”, or something to that effect. That’s certainly the impression that climate “skeptics” would like you to get. Unfortunately for “skeptics” (and if we don’t reign in greenhouse emissions, everyone else), it’s not true. While cosmic rays may have some influence on cloud formation, they are not responsible for the present, human-driven climatic change or alleged changes in the geologic past.
...
The short version is that Kirkby et al. do find increased aerosol nucleation under increased ionization (i.e. “more cosmic rays”), particularly in the mid-troposphere, but the effect is smaller at warmer, lower levels where the cosmic ray-climate myth proponents claim it has its greatest climatic effect. Lead author Jasper Kirkby has tried to set the record straight, stating (all following emphases mine):

[The paper] actually says nothing about a possible cosmic-ray effect on clouds and climate, but it’s a very important first step.

While their results provide some confirmation of the potential mechanism by which GCRs might induce cloud nucleation, they in no way demonstrate that GCRs do significantly promote cloud formation in the real world, let alone support the myth that GCRs drive significant climatic change.

8 Kronocide  Sat, Aug 27, 2011 11:02:46pm

Delingpole = Monckton on a Discount.

9 freetoken  Sun, Aug 28, 2011 1:14:13am

re: #8 BigPapa

Delingpole = Monckton on a Discount.

Ah... a Discount Viscount, eh?

10 Achilles Tang  Sun, Aug 28, 2011 6:23:56pm

My main critique was the statement that the sun's magnetic field shields the earth from cosmic rays. It is the earth's magnetic field that shields it from cosmic rays, and reading that whole statement one cannot think that this was a simple typo.

Also, cloud formation to any significant degree would most likely cool the earth, not heat it, by reducing solar radiation. They seem to claim the opposite.


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