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1 Romantic Heretic  Sun, Sep 18, 2011 12:57:58pm
but we all live in this country and benefit from all it offers, therefore I see no reason why we shouldn't all have to pay our fair share

Unfortunately many of the rich do not live in this country, at least emotionally. Their loyalty is entirely to their class.

As my favorite author points out the current economic system bears a strong resemblance to feudalism. It is an abstract system not tied to geography or people. The individuals existing in that system don't care what happens to either nations or people because those nations are not where they live and those people are not their neighbors or fellow citizens.

Their loyalty is entirely to their class and they resent having to pay towards anything not of their class. The same way any of us would resent paying taxes to France.

2 HappyWarrior  Sun, Sep 18, 2011 1:23:54pm

This is a load of crap and they know it.

3 nines09  Sun, Sep 18, 2011 2:40:02pm

re: #1 Romantic Heretic

Unfortunately many of the rich do not live in this country, at least emotionally. Their loyalty is entirely to their class.

As my favorite author points out the current economic system bears a strong resemblance to feudalism. It is an abstract system not tied to geography or people. The individuals existing in that system don't care what happens to either nations or people because those nations are not where they live and those people are not their neighbors or fellow citizens.

Their loyalty is entirely to their class and they resent having to pay towards anything not of their class. The same way any of us would resent paying taxes to France.


This has been my arguement. When it is money and only money it is not only wrong, but corrupt.

4 Amory Blaine  Sun, Sep 18, 2011 2:40:23pm

I'm ready for class warfare. Bring it on.

5 Decatur Deb  Sun, Sep 18, 2011 2:43:55pm

re: #4 Amory Blaine

I'm ready for class warfare. Bring it on.

Where were you two hundred years ago, grunt?

6 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Sep 18, 2011 4:25:56pm
McConnell said Congress had already debated the issue last year, when Obama and Republicans hatched a compromise that extended the reduced tax rates, approved during the administration of George W. Bush, for high-earners for two years.

That says it all for me too, but in the same way. Republicans thought they had deals in place, both on tax rates and deficit reduction targets. Now here comes Obama trying to upend those agreements. In my mind that make Barack Obama untrustworthy, since he will not keep the bargains he makes. I find that dishonorable, and I expected better from him.

7 Interesting Times  Sun, Sep 18, 2011 5:14:49pm

re: #6 Dark_Falcon

In my mind that make Barack Obama untrustworthy, since he will not keep the bargains he makes. I find that dishonorable, and I expected better from him.

Take the beam out of thine own eye: House Republicans Consider Reneging On Budget Deal To Force Even Deeper Cuts

In a surprising bit of hardball, House Republicans confirmed that they had been actively considering a plan to tamper with the August budget agreement by cutting even more from 2012 spending in order to put pressure on Senate Democrats to come to terms faster on domestic bills for the coming fiscal year...Instead of the agreed-upon appropriations target of $1.043 trillion, a stopgap continuing resolution or CR this week would be calibrated at a lower $1.035 trillion level

So what's that all about? Going back on agreements is perfectly okay for the GOP? 9_9 And opposing tax cuts for the middle-class is also okay, when they do it?

Such disgusting double standards.

8 Jaerik  Sun, Sep 18, 2011 6:53:29pm

Class warfare goes both ways.

One could easily argue that both parties have been gutting the middle class for decades in an attempt to flatter their traditional constituencies.

It doesn't suddenly become warfare just because they decide to start fighting back.

9 Buck  Sun, Sep 18, 2011 7:30:30pm
Obama's forthcoming proposal

This is what I call "Obama's Rope a Dope".

Anyone who supports OR CRITICIZES a "forthcoming proposal" is shadow boxing. There is nothing there....

Wait for the Bill to be in writing. Wait for it to be scored by the CBO.

CBO wont score a "forthcoming proposal". only an idiot would.

10 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Sep 18, 2011 7:43:37pm

re: #9 Buck

This is what I call "Obama's Rope a Dope".

Anyone who supports OR CRITICIZES a "forthcoming proposal" is shadow boxing. There is nothing there...

Wait for the Bill to be in writing. Wait for it to be scored by the CBO.

CBO wont score a "forthcoming proposal". only an idiot would.

Quite Concur. The answer to "Pass The Bill!" is "Put It In Writing!". Congress should not allow itself to be stampeded into passing a $400 billion dollar bill. There is a process that such bills go through, and Congress should not hold a floor vote until that process is completed.

Obama needs to get his bill to Paul Ryan, so that the GOP's numbers man can at least examine it.

11 Lidane  Sun, Sep 18, 2011 9:18:12pm

re: #10 Dark_Falcon

Congress should not allow itself to be stampeded into passing a $400 billion dollar bill.

Pfft. Congress was willing to stampede headlong into default to make Grover Norquist and the Club for Decay happy. Fuck 'em.

12 Lidane  Sun, Sep 18, 2011 9:23:50pm

re: #10 Dark_Falcon

Obama needs to get his bill to Paul Ryan, so that the GOP's numbers man can at least examine it.

If Paul Ryan is the GOP's numbers man, then the GOP's numbers aren't worth a damn, considering the fact that Paul Ryan thinks middle class tax hikes are good, but tax hikes for millionaires are class warfare.

Whatever. Screw Paul Ryan.

13 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Mon, Sep 19, 2011 4:26:47am

re: #10 Dark_Falcon

Congress should not allow itself to be stampeded into passing a $400 billion dollar bill.

Frightened, kill-happy cons stampeded their billion-dollar-a-day overseas bombing sprees so their benefactors can get cushy defense contracts, now they get to bite it and pass a $400-penny bill. /the way the cookie crumbles

14 Decatur Deb  Mon, Sep 19, 2011 4:30:54am

re: #13 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Frightened, kill-happy cons stampeded their billion-dollar-a-day overseas bombing sprees so their benefactors can get cushy defense contracts, now they get to bite it and pass a $400-penny bill. /the way the cookie crumbles

You forgot the "Confederate" part.

15 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Mon, Sep 19, 2011 5:21:19am

re: #14 Decatur Deb

You forgot the "Confederate" part.

Kind of important to differentiate between neocons and paleocons.

16 Buck  Mon, Sep 19, 2011 9:12:16am

A plumber (for example) earns $70,000 a year taxable income, and is taxed at 30% or $21,000.

This Hedge manager we all want to hate earns $5 million a year. So at 30% he should pay $1.5 million.

However only $250,000 is earnings from salary and bonuses. $4.75 Million is dividends which is taxed at 15%.

So right now the evil Hedge Fund Manager only pays $712,500 on the dividends, and $75,000 on the regular earnings. Only $787,500 in total taxes, or 15.75% on the $5 million. You can change the ratio of earned income and dividend income and it doesn't really change the bottom line very much. (For example, one million in earned income and four million in dividend income means a base tax rate of 18%, still far below the 30%)

What is the President suggesting? Well with no details, and only a rousing speech, we can only guess. Taxing dividend earnings at the same rate as earned income? Limiting dividend income? A surcharge on the rich? What kind of effect would that have on investments, and on the economy?


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