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1 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 6:08:22pm

Deserves a full investigation. His car should have full evidence of the event. Also, if he carved it into his own back, that would be readily apparent.

2 theheat  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 6:16:58pm

re: #1 EmmmieG

I can hardly do the clasps on my own necklaces, let alone draw figures on my own back. Either the guy has monkey arms or he was really attacked.

3 CuriousLurker  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 6:27:42pm

Marjorie, I'm not trying to pick on you, but is there any other source for this than the Kahane-friendly Arutz Sheva quoting Horowitz's FrontPage Magazine? FWIW, I tried Googling it (star of david iraqi poet), but only came up with more of the same.

4 researchok  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 6:52:05pm

re: #3 CuriousLurker

Marjorie, I'm not trying to pick on you, but is there any other source for this than the Kahane-friendly Arutz Sheva quoting Horowitz's FrontPage Magazine? FWIW, I tried Googling it (star of david iraqi poet), but only came up with more of the same.

See this from KMOV

5 CuriousLurker  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 7:06:15pm

re: #4 researchok

See this from KMOV

Yes, I saw that article. They also reference FrontPage Magazine, but they didn't go into nearly as much detail, which is part of the reason I'm questioning the story (not MM or her intentions in posting it).

6 researchok  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 7:24:56pm

re: #5 CuriousLurker

Yes, I saw that article. They also reference FrontPage Magazine, but they didn't go into nearly as much detail, which is part of the reason I'm questioning the story (not MM or her intentions in posting it).

Yes, but KMOV actually interviewed the guy.

The FP contribution was the photo.

7 CuriousLurker  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 7:55:39pm

re: #6 researchok

Yes, but KMOV actually interviewed the guy.

The FP contribution was the photo.

Yes, and KMOV says "Alsaegh is a Muslim from Iraq."

Arutz Sheva says he's an "Iraqi poet who converted from Islam to Christianity".

KMOV says:

Alaa Alsaegh says that two cars followed him as he drove on Compton. The drivers cut him off and Alsaegh says he pulled over. That's when two men got out of a car, armed with a handgun. They got into Alsaegh's car and attacked him with a knife. [...]

...Alsaegh says that his attackers told him not to publish any more poems. [...]

Note that in the above there is no mention of the alleged assailants being Somali Muslims, laughing, reciting the poem, or stabbing Alsaegh, yet Arutz Sheva says FrontPage reported:

The two attackers then quickly hopped out of the cars, jerked open Alsaegh's door and pointed a gun at the poet, reported FrontPage Magazine.

“They pushed his upper body down against the steering wheel, stabbed him and pulled off his shirt to expose his back. Then, with a knife, they carved the Star of David on his back while laughing as they recited his pro-Jewish poem,” the magazine reported. [...]

...He also said that his attackers, who he said may have been Somali Muslims, told him not to publish any more poems. [...]

The police only say that the responded to a call for help, and the FBI says they cannot comment. Of course, that doesn't mean that none of those things happened, but you'll have to excuse me if I take any story about Muslims coming through David Horowitz & Arutz Sheva with a HUGE grain of salt until all the details & facts have been verified.

8 Bob Levin  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 9:41:01pm

St. Louis has three time zones--BCG, DCG, and ACG. Before the Cardinal game, During the Cardinal Game, and After the Cardinal game. This could not have occurred DCG, as nothing occurs DCG other than 911 calls for chest pains.

Needless to say, I have some good sources in St. Louis. I can do some checking.

9 philosophus invidius  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 10:09:16pm

I have to be honest . . .
I looked at the picture, and it's hard for me to imagine that that could have happened to someone during any kind of struggle.
Then again, it might be real.

10 Bob Levin  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 10:40:38pm

Nothing on the Post-Dispatch Website. And this attack was supposed to have taken place a 3 weeks ago.

11 Bob Levin  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 10:43:48pm

re: #4 researchok

That KMOV story was more about St. Louis being in the national news, regarding a story that they didn't even know about until they read it somewhere else.

12 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 11:16:55pm

re: #7 CuriousLurker

Hmm. From Darwish's article:

After I learned of the attack on Mr. Alsaegh, I did not want to rush to judgment and waited until he told me that the FBI concluded that this was a hate crime.

From the
INN:

The crime has not been labeled a ‘hate crime,’

13 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Mon, Oct 3, 2011 11:20:38pm

re: #3 CuriousLurker

Yeah, I wish people would stop posting from neo-fascist sources like INN/Arutz Sheva as if they were somehow legitimate.

14 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 12:05:54am

I'd appreciate it if people could keep an eye out for more information on this. Everyone's pretty much said what was on my mind. It seems like the sort of story that gets debunked--ie, it was spread around very fast to sources that would accept it without question, the story seems improbable--I don't really think that Somalis read Nonie Darwish's blog and then track people down--etc.

Oddly, the one thing that makes me think it might be real is the fact that it's a man. In cases like this, where you get hurt to prove that you were attacked, it's almost always women. I can't think of an example with a grown man.

If this guy really did get carved up for writing a poem about the Shoah, I am going to feel like the world's biggest schmuck, but right now I'm very suspicious.

Also--there is exactly one reference to this man on Darwish's site--a video of the poem--posted September 27. No reference to the attack. So he was attacked weeks before it went up on Darwish's site? Was it posted elsewhere?

I'm confused as hell.

15 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 12:16:18am

I've written to Nonie Darwish directly on Facebook. Maybe she will have some insight.

16 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 12:39:40am

re: #15 SanFranciscoZionist

I've written to Nonie Darwish directly on Facebook. Maybe she will have some insight.

Yeah, Darwish is known for her ... insights.

17 Bob Levin  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 3:21:28am

re: #16 Sergey Romanov

Thanks Sergey. But...CAIRtv? I know, good sources are hard to find. ;-)

18 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 3:26:54am

re: #17 Bob Levin

Unless she was publically rehearsing for a theatric role of an anti-islam bigot, I don't think there is any context that would excuse her in that video.

19 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 3:46:15am

re: #17 Bob Levin

Thanks Sergey. But...CAIRtv? I know, good sources are hard to find. ;-)

What's wrong with it? It's not like it's something that needs interpretation. If I were posting a news item from CAIR, now that would not be appropriate (although it still would be more appropriate than posting news items from a neo-fascist outlet like INN).

20 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 5:32:39am

Here's Mr. Alsaegh's Facebook:

[Link: www.facebook.com...]

Aminah, can you read what is written there? Google translation is vague. (Also scroll way down...)

21 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 5:37:28am

And at this hate site he apparently appears in the comments (though, of course, not for certain):

[Link: barenakedislam.wordpress.com...]

22 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 5:52:28am

re: #14 SanFranciscoZionist

Also--there is exactly one reference to this man on Darwish's site--a video of the poem--posted September 27. No reference to the attack. So he was attacked weeks before it went up on Darwish's site? Was it posted elsewhere?

She writes that she posted it a year ago.

23 CuriousLurker  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 8:30:56am

re: #14 SanFranciscoZionist

I'd appreciate it if people could keep an eye out for more information on this.

I'm going to create a Google alert for it.

re: #20 Sergey Romanov

Here's Mr. Alsaegh's Facebook:

[Link: www.facebook.com...]

Aminah, can you read what is written there? Google translation is vague. (Also scroll way down...)

The only Arabic I see is under Activities & Interests. I no longer have a FB account, so maybe you need to be logged in to see more? In any event, I can read & write Arabic, but that doesn't necessarily mean I understand what I'm reading. Most of my (limited) vocabulary are words from the Qur'an, so they probably wouldn't help anyway. Sorry.

24 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 8:33:22am

[tried to post an Arabic sample, but LGF doesn't like non-Eng chars]

25 CuriousLurker  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 8:36:01am

re: #24 Sergey Romanov

Just a sample:

Would you be able to read this?

Nope, sorry. The letters of the words are all broken apart. Even if they weren't, I'd probably only be able to pick out a word here & there.

26 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 8:39:47am

BTW, in the "Holocaust poem" video there is a picture of Jesus for a few seconds. Hmm.

27 Bob Levin  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 8:45:40am

re: #18 000G

re: #19 Sergey Romanov

No excuses. It's clear how she feels. But the discussion also included the way that the story was sourced. I'm the only one who sees just a teensy bit of irony that the footage was from CAIRtv? Really? I put my winky thing afterwards.

We still don't have any idea if this story was true, only that Nonie Darwish isn't much help.

28 Bob Levin  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 8:49:16am

re: #20 Sergey Romanov

How did you link to his entire Facebook page if you're not his friend? I would just get name, rank, and serial number.

29 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 8:55:04am

re: #27 Bob Levin

I'm the only one who sees just a teensy bit of irony that the footage was from CAIRtv? Really?

Apparently, you're the only one. There is no irony since there is no analogy in posting materials from whatever source that don't need interpretation (I don't exactly call them "raw sources", since the video has been edited, but my point should be clear, since there is no suggestion of foul play in regard to this specific video, like re-dubbing or taking out of context, which is rather impossible given the things said in the video) and news items, which pretty much depend on the credibility of the source.

I don't know what your point is supposed to be. Hypocrisy? There is none. What else?

30 CuriousLurker  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 8:55:39am

re: #27 Bob Levin

re: #19 Sergey Romanov

No excuses. It's clear how she feels. But the discussion also included the way that the story was sourced. I'm the only one who sees just a teensy bit of irony that the footage was from CAIRtv? Really? I put my winky thing afterwards.

We still don't have any idea if this story was true, only that Nonie Darwish isn't much help.

I can't speak for Sergey or 000G, but if Arutz Sheva or FrontPage provided clear, uncut, verifiable video about something, then I'd accept their story even though I highly mistrust them. Besides, Darwish's views about Islam are no secret. As you said, she isn't much help. Might as well listen to Geller or Schlussel.

31 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 8:56:09am

re: #28 Bob Levin

How did you link to his entire Facebook page if you're not his friend? I would just get name, rank, and serial number.

One doesn't have to be a friend to link to facebook pages.

32 Bob Levin  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 9:08:01am

re: #30 CuriousLurker

But you'd look for the same video from another source, right? You'd prefer posting from...well that's the problem, isn't it?

re: #31 Sergey Romanov

Whenever I search for someone on Facebook, and I'm not their friend, I get nothing.

33 CuriousLurker  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 9:08:08am

re: #26 Sergey Romanov

The Arabs for Israel blog has a video of the poem. They claim that they're "Arabs and Muslims who support the State of Israel and the cause of peace in the Middle East". Uh-huh. The blog is advertising the Clarion Fund's movie Obsession, and they link to Former Muslims United & Darwish's blog, all of which Darwish is involved with in one way or another.

Why would observant Muslims interested in peace be associating with these? I smell a far right front group.

34 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 9:14:46am

re: #32 Bob Levin

re: #30 CuriousLurker

But you'd look for the same video from another source, right? You'd prefer posting from...well that's the problem, isn't it?

If the video is made by this source, how can you search for another video? Again, what's the point? INN is not credible and is hateful. If it ever has a video about which there are no suspicions (which may certainly happen), sure it's OK to use it. But otherwise how is posting items from it different from posting items from a site that calls for expelling blacks and Jews from the US?

re: #31 Sergey Romanov

Whenever I search for someone on Facebook, and I'm not their friend, I get nothing.

Either you're doing something wrong, or you happen to search for the people who happen close their accounts to non-friends.

35 CuriousLurker  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 9:20:25am

re: #32 Bob Levin

But you'd look for the same video from another source, right? You'd prefer posting from...well that's the problem, isn't it?

When her views are so well known, no it's not a problem. Former Muslims United is her blog—her NonieDarwish(dot)com domain redirects there. Read some of the articles on Islam there, if you have the stomach for it.

Like Geller, she calls herself a "human rights activist". Below are her views on Islam from her Wikipedia page. She makes no distinctions:

Darwish believes Islam is an authoritarian ideology that is attempting to impose on the world the norms of seventh-century culture of the Arabian Peninsula. She writes that Islam is a "sinister force" that must be resisted and contained. She remarks that it is hard to "comprehend that an entire religion and its culture believes God orders the killing of unbelievers." She claims that Islam and Sharia of forming a retrograde ideology that adds greatly to the world's stock of misery.

She claims the Qur'an is a text that is "violent, incendiary, and disrespectful" and says that barbarities such as brutalization of women, the persecution of homosexuals, honor killings, the beheading of apostates and the stoning of adulterers come directly out of the Qur'an.

re: #31 Sergey Romanov

Whenever I search for someone on Facebook, and I'm not their friend, I get nothing.

I get the same without a FB account—just bare bones stuff.

36 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 9:29:59am

To illustrate it further.

People here may remember a video about a crowd chanting hateful things at Muslims arriving at some community center. That was a CAIR video, but some people (even staunchly pro-Israel, Jewish) jumped to conclusions about some of the things in that video which actually required trust in CAIR's presentation. E.g. that a Rabbi was there and basically supported this display of hate. The Rabbi later wrote a refutation.

Also what CAIR didn't tell in the video is that the Muslims were gathering to hear some preachers who had a pretty shady past, and that's what lots of people of that crowd were protesting (or at least used as an excuse to protest).

So the above video was of a complex event (or even several events at once), presented with CAIR's comments, lacking some context, and adding CAIR's own interpretation of the events.

Obviously, one should not take such a video at face value, esp. as it originated at CAIR.

On the other hand, there is nothing complex in the Darwish video. It's impossible to put her words in any context. It requires no interpretation (and none was added by CAIR).

Therefore it is utterly irrelevant that it's a CAIRtv video. It might have been a Stormfront or an INN video, for all I care.

37 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 9:32:33am

re: #35 CuriousLurker

I get the same without a FB account—just bare bones stuff.

Sure, without such you often get nothing.

38 Bob Levin  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 9:52:10am

re: #34 Sergey Romanov

You do understand that I'm not impeaching the video, yes? I am saying that it is very difficult to find material from the exact source you'd prefer. I post a lot of things from the Jerusalem Post and Ynet. But I choose to pass on many of the stories. Occasionally I read Arutz Sheva, and again, I have to think about whether I'm helping to clarify an issue or adding to the static around that issue.

So, we have a story that may or may not be true. Someone said that it might be credible because Nonie Darwish had mentioned something about it, and you rightly refuted that as a route for proof. It's refuted. But the refutation had to come from CAIRtv. I found that worthy of an irony note. That's all. No big deal.

39 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 9:57:23am

re: #38 Bob Levin

If you're not calling the video into question, there is no analogy with posting items from INN and no irony. Again, INN is a hate org, judging by the material they officially host. Not posting from INN is a no-brainer, like not posting from David Duke's site.

40 Bob Levin  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 10:20:07am

re: #39 Sergey Romanov

INN is not a hate group. It's a news organization that publishes many things which are not news, and often not accurate. That's ironic right there.

I never made the analogy between CAIRtv and INN. Once again, someone else brought up Nonie Darwish as a possible way to bring veracity to this story. You refuted that thoroughly and completely. You did it so well, that no one can ever use Nonie Darwish for anything on this site ever again.

But the video came from CAIRtv. To what is this analogous? This is Cary Grant turning to the camera and doing a subtle take--which I express like this: ;-)

Now, for me, to check into the veracity of the story, I called a friend in St. Louis. I left a message. I'll figure out some way to add his views to this conversation.

41 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 1:08:29pm

"INN is not a hate group"

A news site publishing open calls for ethnic cleansing is not a hate site?

Oh kay.

42 Bob Levin  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 1:39:47pm

re: #41 Sergey Romanov

Are you talking about the editorials? I never read the editorials. I rarely read any editorials at all.

I read the news page almost every day, and I never get the sense of a call for ethnic cleansing. We can read it every day for a week and watch the main page. I do see the bias, but I don't get the sense that the bias is about ethnic cleansing.

43 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 1:41:21pm

re: #42 Bob Levin

Sure. I linked to one above, but there are more, of course.

44 Bob Levin  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 1:50:51pm

re: #43 Sergey Romanov

Man, I can't worry about the opinion of someone else, I'm too busy trying to reconcile the two or three different ones in my own head. :-)

45 Bob Levin  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 1:53:33pm

re: #43 Sergey Romanov

Seriously, I think the bias is of a group of people who do not feel that they are being heard, and really have no idea of how to go about being heard. I mean, I want to read that paper and believe the stories. I just can't. And that's not my fault.

46 What, me worry?  Tue, Oct 4, 2011 6:54:42pm

Yikes! Thanks for all the comments. Sorry for my AWOL. Life has been hectic.

I certainly didn't meant to offend anyone and I apologize if I did. It actually never occurred to me that the article could be bogus. It probably should have given the red flags. I don't consider Arutz Sheva to be one of those flags, tho. The article Sergey posted was, indeed, an op-ed piece and like Bob, I don't read them. I have maybe 3 favorite political writers who I enjoy. EJ Dionne is one, Leonard Pitts, Jr., a few more. Arutz Sheva has cultural Jewish content that I like and when I read it, that's mostly what I read there. This piece came across on The Twitter.

I think it's clear the man didn't scar himself, but was it a set up? Stranger things have happened. It seems completely feasible, however, that it happened as he said it did. I'll keep watching it also.

47 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 12:44:33am

re: #22 Sergey Romanov

She writes that she posted it a year ago.

I can't find it.

Nor is there any mention on formermuslimsunited.org of the attack.

48 What, me worry?  Wed, Oct 5, 2011 9:43:30am

There's a video up on the page now. I didn't see it before, but I may have had a blocker on and didn't notice.

[Link: www.kmov.com...]

The video is an interview with a KMOV/St. Louis reporter, Alsaegh and his son which looks to have been added late last night. I can't seem to embed it here.

If the story isn't true, he's sure going a long way to pull a hoax and make himself into a public liar. Especially turning himself into the police as an Arab immigrant who doesn't speak English, seems pretty far fetched. I'm not ruling it out, but it could also be why his story was odd sounding. It could have been misinterpreted initially.


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