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1 Destro  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 6:09:40am
As Will notes, our Navy has become weak in the skills necessary to plan and defend against a delivery platform that can launch a supersonic cruise missile from 200+ miles at your ships. It takes practice, practice, and practice to get it right. We haven’t been, because all we’ve been doing for over a decade is launching airstrikes and chasing pirates with RPG-7s.

How about the USA gives up on being a world empire. It ever to occur to anyone the Chinese maybe doing this because a US fleet passes back and forth across her shores every now and then and American politicians every now and then say we should be at war with China in some capacity?

2 lawhawk  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 6:29:48am

re: #1 Destro

That would also ignore that those same Backfire/Hong10s could be used as offensive weapons against Taiwan (saber rattling) as well as Vietnam, South Korea, and Japan over disputed access/ownership of coastal waters/islands for fishing and other natural resources. Since the US has alliances with South Korea and Japan, those territorial conflicts could bring in the US as well.

The use of those bombers would give China first strike capabilities against Taiwan and coupled with standoff weapons such as long range air to surface missiles could negate the US Navy's surface fleet advantage if needed to come to Taiwan's aid.

3 Shiplord Kirel  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 8:39:45am

Has it occurred to you, Destro, that there is a good reason for our fleet to be there, or that people other than Americans might sometimes have less than honorable motives? China does not own the oceans off its shores and it certainly does not own the neighboring countries it routinely threatens. It has a claim of sorts on one potential victim, Taiwan, but the Beijing regime's right to extend its particular system of exploitation there by force of arms is morally and legally ambiguous to say the least.
The US presence is crucial to maintaining the balance of power in that part of the world. A breakdown in that balance would threaten more than our trade relations, a lot more. It could easily result in open conflict between China and India, a nightmare nobody wants to think about. It has happened before. Sino-Indian war of 1962
Poorly equipped Indian forces were routed in the 1962 war. That defeat was the triggering event for the huge arms build-up in India, a build-up that continues to this day.

4 Curt  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 10:10:37am

re: #1 Destro

How about the USA gives up on being a world empire. It ever to occur to anyone the Chinese maybe doing this because a US fleet passes back and forth across her shores every now and then and American politicians every now and then say we should be at war with China in some capacity?

Empire means you take over and exploit the local resources, for your own good, not paying fair market value for them, or...just taking them. Lemme see...England, Germany, France, The Netherlands, Spain, Russia....those were empires of which you speak.

In your opinion, then China has a beef with any country that has their naval vessels drive by? Every navy an empire...

Consider this: Our military has been built on the postulated threat. It wasn't and hasn't for a very long time, ever been constituted, or expanded in order to go to war first. If so, it would have looked very, very different. The requirements of countering threats existing, or reasonably foreseen drives force structure. In China's case, we have been reducing not only our Navy, but all other components of our military. So...if they see us as a threat...they certainly take it at an entirely different context....and I submit it's not threat based, but like Japan in the 30s-40s: Positioning to ensure they control the resources for energy and industrial production. Consider their relationships all over Africa, which lends an entirely new context to this discussion.

5 Destro  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 11:03:02am

re: #2 lawhawk

That would also ignore that those same Backfire/Hong10s could be used as offensive weapons against Taiwan (saber rattling) as well as Vietnam, South Korea, and Japan over disputed access/ownership of coastal waters/islands for fishing and other natural resources. Since the US has alliances with South Korea and Japan, those territorial conflicts could bring in the US as well.

The use of those bombers would give China first strike capabilities against Taiwan and coupled with standoff weapons such as long range air to surface missiles could negate the US Navy's surface fleet advantage if needed to come to Taiwan's aid.

The Chinese are trading partners with South Korea and Taiwan and starting a war is bad for Chinese business. Also we will now defend Vietnam from some imagined Red Chinese invasion? The new domino theory?

6 Destro  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 11:05:11am

re: #3 Shiplord Kirel

Has it occurred to you, Destro, that there is a good reason for our fleet to be there, or that people other than Americans might sometimes have less than honorable motives? China does not own the oceans off its shores and it certainly does not own the neighboring countries it routinely threatens. It has a claim of sorts on one potential victim, Taiwan, but the Beijing regime's right to extend its particular system of exploitation there by force of arms is morally and legally ambiguous to say the least.
The US presence is crucial to maintaining the balance of power in that part of the world. A breakdown in that balance would threaten more than our trade relations, a lot more. It could easily result in open conflict between China and India, a nightmare nobody wants to think about. It has happened before. Sino-Indian war of 1962
Poorly equipped Indian forces were routed in the 1962 war. That defeat was the triggering event for the huge arms build-up in India, a build-up that continues to this day.

How much is America charging for maintaining this fleet from the Asian nations? Because last I looked America is broke. Unlike others I rather cut the military spending than the social services especially since the end of the Cold War the USA has started more wars than Red China has.

7 Destro  Thu, Jul 12, 2012 11:08:22am

re: #4 Curt

re: #4 Curt

Consider this: Our military has been built on the postulated threat. It wasn't and hasn't for a very long time, ever been constituted, or expanded in order to go to war first.

Number of wars started by China since the end of the Cold War? Zero.

Number of Chinese military bases around the world? Zero.

Number of wars started by USA since the end of the Cold War? I lost count and it looks like we may start a few more soon.

Number of American military bases around the world? Lots.


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