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1 Skip Intro  Sun, Nov 18, 2012 10:54:46am

Did the original tablets that Charlton Heston brought down from the mountain top have an American Eagle and Masonic Eye on them too?

2 CuriousLurker  Sun, Nov 18, 2012 11:03:40am

From the article, emphasis mine:

Rep. Mike Ritze, whose family paid for the monument that was put up Thursday, said the monument company has been contacted and will correct the errors to the words Sabbath and maidservant. [...]

Ritze said the monument re-emphasizes the history and heritage of America's legal system. American laws came from English law, which is rooted in Mosaic Law; the history of some of America's law can be traced to the Ten Commandments, he said.

“It is a historical presentation of where we get our laws,” Ritze said.

This from a guy who voted in favor of his state's anti-Sharia bill which, in addition to banning Sharia, also forbids state courts from looking at international law: "It would make courts rely on federal and state laws when deciding cases." (PDF)

So...he's saying that American law has its roots not only in international law (British), but also in Jewish religious law in that the Mosaic covenant between God and the Israelites is foundational (according to my understanding). The congressman does realize that Moses (a.s.) wasn't American and didn't receive the commandments in Kansas or Indiana or wherever, right? I guess we need to strike down those foreign laws of ours that can be traced to the Ten Commandments, huh?

These guys make my head hurt.

3 philosophus invidius  Sun, Nov 18, 2012 11:23:51am

re: #2 CuriousLurker

Us vs. Them

4 CuriousLurker  Sun, Nov 18, 2012 11:25:06am

re: #1 Skip Intro

Did the original tablets that Charlton Heston brought down from the mountain top have an American Eagle and Masonic Eye on them too?

Wait. Isn't that eagle a graven image, which is clearly forbidden if you look four lines below it? Yeah, and that Eye of Providence—isn't that associated with Freemasonry? *reaches for tinfoil hat*

ZOMG, I just realized something! It's actually creeping Sharia! Eleventy!!11! The Christian Eye of Providence has its roots in the Eye of Horus. Horus is part of Egyptian mythology, and Egypt...the Arab Spring...

EEEK, THE OKLAHOMA STATE CAPITOL HAS BEEN TAKEN OVER BY THE MUSLIM BROTHERHOOD!! *thud*

5 philosophus invidius  Sun, Nov 18, 2012 11:30:23am
6 Skip Intro  Sun, Nov 18, 2012 11:34:44am

re: #4 CuriousLurker

Wait. Isn't that eagle a graven image, which is clearly forbidden if you look four lines below it?

Of course it is, and Christian churches across the country are filled with them, but nobody seems to notice.

It's just like everything else in the bible; you pick and choose what you like to make your point, original context be damned.

7 CuriousLurker  Sun, Nov 18, 2012 11:34:57am

re: #5 philosophus invidius

I suspect universal would be considered even worse than international by some. That it's of French origin would only make it more objectionable. //

8 Aligarr  Sun, Nov 18, 2012 2:42:26pm

who gives a rats ass .

9 wheat-dogghazi  Sun, Nov 18, 2012 4:56:19pm

So, is this part of a display of "great documents that made our nation glorious," or is it only a copy of the Decalogue? If it's there all by its lonesome, then it's a clear infringement of the First Amendment. Plenty of places have been there, done that, and had to take down their displays after someone filed suit.

I question whether the Ten Commandments inspired any part of either the Declaration of Independence or the US Constitution.

10 Achilles Tang  Sun, Nov 18, 2012 8:24:34pm

So violating how many of those commandments gets one locked up, given that they claim to be the basis of our laws?

11 Destro  Sun, Nov 18, 2012 10:30:49pm

re: #10 Achilles Tang

So violating how many of those commandments gets one locked up, given that they claim to be the basis of our laws?

What is funny is that Moses pretty much violated all these "laws", including murder.

12 Obdicut  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 4:44:34am

re: #11 Destro

What is funny is that Moses pretty much violated all these "laws", including murder.

Let's check this claim out:

First commandment: “You shall have no other gods before me." Moses obviously didn't break that one.

Second commandment: "You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. You shall not bow down to them or serve them..."

Moses didn't break that one.

Third commandment: "You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain,"

Moses didn't break that one.

Fourth commandment: "Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. "

No evidence Moses broke that one.

Fifth commandment: " Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long in the land that the Lord your God is giving you."

Don't see any signs Moses broke this one.

Sixth commandment: "You shall not murder."

Moses did kill an Egyptian who was whipping a Jew. Almost certainly counts. Score! one commandment broken.

Seventh commandment: "You shall not commit adultery."

No evidence Moses did that.

Eighth commandment: "You shall not steal."

Don't think Moses did this. Anyway, I'll score it as him breaking it because it's a pretty common one to break. So two broken!

Ninth: "You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor."

No evidence Moses did this.

Tenth: "You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, or his male servant, or his female servant, or his ox, or his donkey, or anything that is your neighbor's."

Yeah, everyone breaks that one.

So Moses definitely broke murder. He might have broken two others. Your claim is totally hyperbolically dumb, as usual.

Oh, and Moses probably didn't exist, and to whatever extent he existed he probably didn't do anything that's talked about in the bible. It'd be kind of weird if a narrative fictional construction did break all ten commandments; that wouldn't make for a very compelling story.

13 Destro  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 6:26:27am

re: #12 Obdicut

Moses of course is fictional but they claim Moses was an Egyptian so he worshipped the Egyptian pantheon.

Since he was adopted (his mother gave him up) he dishonored his Egyptian parents.

Moses did more than kill an Egyptian, he ordered mass murder and child rape (war crimes/genocide) and theft of property.

Moses stole Egyptian gold from the temples before fleeing (I mean according to the legend since there was no Exodus).

Moses falsely accused Egyptians of holding slaves to build temples. The Egyptian temples were not built by slave labor.

With that said, enshrining any words from that psychotic book known as "The Bible" written for a psychopathic (fictional) bat shit crazy god in the public sphere is troubling.

14 Obdicut  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 7:06:57am

re: #13 Destro

Moses of course is fictional but they claim Moses was an Egyptian so he worshipped the Egyptian pantheon.

No, he was Jewish, and that was obvious from the moment he was found by the princess.

Since he was adopted (his mother gave him up) he dishonored his Egyptian parents.

How'd he dishonor them?

Moses did more than kill an Egyptian, he ordered mass murder and child rape (war crimes/genocide) and theft of property.

Oh, is this just about the hypocrisy of God? Yeah, God was a big ol' hypocrite, and war of any aggressive sort would be impossible if the commandments were followed literally.

Moses stole Egyptian gold from the temples before fleeing (I mean according to the legend since there was no Exodus).

That's highly disputable. They were told to flee with their valuables, is the best translation. Even if they did 'steal', they were slaves at the time, so you could also accuse them of stealing themselves.

Moses falsely accused Egyptians of holding slaves to build temples. The Egyptian temples were not built by slave labor.

Hah! You're fucking hilarious. You're using the historical likelihood that Jews were not in slavery in the way described in the book of Moses to say that Moses-- who probably didn't exist-- lied about the existence of slaves. So Moses (who didn't exist) lied because he talked about slavery (that didn't happen).

Fucking brilliant! This is better than most of Killgore's stuff.

With that said, enshrining any words from that psychotic book known as "The Bible" written for a psychopathic (fictional) bat shit crazy god in the public sphere is troubling.

It's pretty unconstitutional. Aside from the needlessly spiteful harangue included, a perfectly good point. Too bad you didn't focus on that from the start instead of the deeply stupid attack on the non-existent Moses.

15 Destro  Mon, Nov 19, 2012 1:06:46pm

re: #14 Obdicut

How many commandments did that stuttering prick Moses break here:

Numbers 31:13-18:

And Moses, and Eleazar the priest, and all the princes of the congregation, went forth to meet them without the camp; and Moses was wroth with the officers of the host, with the captains over thousands, and captains over hundreds, which came from the battle; and Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive? behold, these caused the children of Israel, through the counsel of Balaam, to commit trespass against the Lord in the matter of Peor, and there was a plague among the congregation of the Lord. Now, therefore, kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known a man by lying with him; but all the women-children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.

Also when Moses returns the commandment to not worship idols was not yet made known to the the Hebrews but that did not stop god from punishing them for not following a rule he did not advise them of previously.

Also, the ark is a graven image.


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 Frank says:

Throwing objects such as this are capable of damaging expensive musical equipment and musicians. Any more of this and there will be no more music. -- FZ, Autumn 1981 at Northrup auditorium in Minneapolis, Minnesota. After someone threw a plunger on stage about two-thirds of the way through the show, he stopped the band with a wave of his hand speaking in the general direction that the dangerous object was thrown, while holding it in his hand. This did not prove to be an amusing act and Franks mood hardened. - It was, however, an evening of excellent, serious musicianship around the release of 'Shut up and play your guitar'