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1 researchok  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 6:43:39pm

No good options for us.

The author proposes sitting on the sidelines but do we want no influence whatsoever? And do we watch the Salafists take advantage of the chaos?

We're damned if we do and damned if we don't.

2 Aligarr  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 7:48:00pm

It is a dilemna , I dont see Asad lasting through this , the people are incensed , they will not give up , nor will the regime . Asad will either be killed or escape to Iran .Muslims are muslims First , Syrians second , freinds of the west LAST . What do you do ? I'd hate to be in Obama's shoes on this one .The Russians are spoiling to do something more signifigant , but really cant unless we do . Unfortunately , the only way we can get involved without the Russians getting involved , is just wait until the regime does the unthinkable , removing any credibility the Russians may have in getting involved .Do we know who is who on the rebel side ? OR just sit back and let the arab nations support the rebels ...again not really knowing who the arms will go to .

3 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 8:09:55pm

re: #1 researchok

No good options for us.

The author proposes sitting on the sidelines but do we want no influence whatsoever? And do we watch the Salafists take advantage of the chaos?

We're damned if we do and damned if we don't.

I don't believe that supplying them with weapons thru back channels will in fact gain us any influence. So yes we sit on the sidelines and do nothing in this one, there are too many players involved already.

Besides neither side seems to be lacking for weapons or ammo, the only thing the rebels lack is air support, they have already captured a lot of tanks and artillery.

4 researchok  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 8:12:00pm

re: #3 watching you tiny alien kittens are

OK, do we back any of the factions politically, with the promise of aid if/when they come to power?

I just don't know.

5 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 8:20:20pm

re: #4 researchok

We can say that we offer our support and aid in non-military ways, humanitarian aid and medical assistance to the FSA. We can attempt to make a sizable offer for the chemical weapons saying that whatever use they put the money to cannot be as bad as the potential use those chemicals could be put to by Salafists. I'm all for trying to stay engaged, but I don't think supplying weapons should have any part in that.

6 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 8:31:31pm

Right now none of these people are really our friends, nor are they likely to be in the near future. The locals in the FSA are more and more being shunted to the side by the foreign jihadis according to many reports. Then you have Hezbollah fighting on Assad's side, so it is the Iranian backed Shia against the Sunni's backed by Qatar, Saudi, and others.

I just don't see us winning any close friends or gaining any real influence in a post Assad Syria, at least not by using third parties to add to their weapons stockpiles.

7 researchok  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 8:46:24pm

re: #5 watching you tiny alien kittens are

re: #6 watching you tiny alien kittens are

I just hope this all works out for the best.

What remains off the radar are the Syrian Kurds, the Turkish Kurds and the Iraqi Kurds.

You are right to note this game is a long way from over.

8 watching you tiny alien kittens are  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 9:08:04pm

re: #7 researchok

re: #6 watching you tiny alien kittens are

I just hope this all works out for the best.

What remains off the radar are the Syrian Kurds, the Turkish Kurds and the Iraqi Kurds.

You are right to note this game is a long way from over.

We could always gin up a joint raid with Israel using their military airfield facilities as home base to seize the chemical weapons from Syria, that would be sure to make us some friends in a hurry. :p

///
On the plus side. It would at least ruin the Freepers growing conspiracy about Obama trying to get them into the hands of the Muslim Brotherhood.

9 stabby  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 9:37:51pm

We do have some gratitude from the Libyans, though not from the Al Qaeda types who are worming their way into control there (possibly by doing things like assassinating the original rebel leaders some of whom I remember reading have disappeared).

If we want to reap any rewards from helping in Syria, then we have to have the courage do so openly.

As for Bengazi, it was a minor attack in a part of the world where attacks are common. Hell, religious celebrations, mosques, police stations and UN missions get blown up, why should we be immune?

10 stabby  Sat, Dec 8, 2012 9:41:10pm

And we should remember that the citizens of Bengazi responded to the attack by putting their lives on the line for a mass protest against militia a week or so after the attack.

How many times in the world have you seen mass bravery from civilians like that? The argument that Bengazi was the worst thing possible is thoroughly immature - ie just what we can expect from Republicans desperately thrashing around looking for a knife that they can stab the president with. But it's not a standard of anything.

So, in short, I respond to the title with "no, I didn't think Bengazi was bad, what else you got?"

11 Obdicut  Sun, Dec 9, 2012 4:10:30am

The administration has not been 'dancing around Benghazi like a pin had been pulled'.

12 Destro  Sun, Dec 9, 2012 5:38:32am

There is a gutsy option. Support Assad's regime and end support for the rebels and then bring them to a peace and hold votes sometime in the near future.

If the FSA wins I fear a bloodbath of reprisals. I will be more than happy to be proven wrong if the FSA wins and we get a stable democrat and civil rights respecting new Syria.

13 Obdicut  Sun, Dec 9, 2012 5:59:44am

re: #12 Destro

Are you not worried about reprisals if Assad wins?

14 jc717  Sun, Dec 9, 2012 9:03:41am

We should sit this one out, completely. But then again, I thought that we should have sat Libya out as well. Why waste money and people to try to police the world? Civil wars are messy; we should sit back and let them play out.

15 Buck  Sun, Dec 9, 2012 12:12:08pm

I see a very similar situation with what happened in Iran.

The long time relationship between Iran and Syria could easily mean that Iran is advising, and maybe even running the Syrian states response to the rebels.

It seemed very easy for the world to ignore what happened in Iran.

There is a Responsibility to Protect (R2P) and that can cost blood and treasure.

The cost of ignoring tyrants as they slaughter their people can cost even more.

16 ProMayaLiberal  Mon, Dec 10, 2012 6:37:11pm

re: #10 stabby

That mass protest later turned into an anti-radical riot, resulting in the eviction of those nuts from Benghazi.

17 ProMayaLiberal  Mon, Dec 10, 2012 6:42:37pm

re: #12 Destro

What makes you think Assad will be better. If anything, he will be worse. Support him, and watch massacres that make the Hama massacre look small occurring in every major city across the country.

Of course, you are the shallow, Galloway type, who think anyone who is Anti-US/Anti-NATO is a good guy. Never mind mind that Assad has somehow become even worse than Qaddafi by some miracle from Hell. Where do you see that he would somehow be better? And don't tell me he said he wouldn't continue to commit industrial scale mass murder, he lies more than the Muslim Brotherhood.

There is no good side anymore. We have allowed Saudi to infect the opposition.

18 Destro  Mon, Dec 10, 2012 11:03:52pm

There is no good side anymore. We have allowed Saudi to infect the opposition.

You act like this is new? Bosnia? Kosovo? Afghani mujaheedeen? Some Libyan revolutionaries?

The USA has been outsourcing its Muslim insurgent foreign policy since the USSR invasion of Afghanistan.

The USA keeps getting these fleas because it lies with Saudi dogs.

Does that sound Gallowayish to you?

19 ProMayaLiberal  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 8:41:06am

re: #18 Destro

You'll notice that 2 out of the four have more or less rejected the Salafi bug and a third (Libya) is in the same messed up position that we were right after our independence.

In the case of Afghanistan, Pakistan has been creating constant issues in trying to create a pliable puppet state they can use as a colony.

I call you Galloway-ish because you will defend any 2-bit dictator or genocidal regime so long as they are against the NATO states. The same sort of person as that traitor Kucinich, who went behind the US's back during the war last year. You bitch about what happened to the Serbs, never mind the fact that if the Serbs had gotten what they had wanted, the Kosovars would have been completely killed or pushed out, and the Bosinians wiped, raped, and exiled. Before you spew more ignorant BS, go look up the Serbian Rape Camps. Sometimes, the US does the right thing. I would argue that all 4 have been just or justified wars. We have been sabotaged in Afghanistan by Pakistan though.

But I'm guess that since we went against Milosevic, Karadzic, and his buddies that they must be heroes. People like you make me sick. You claim to be oh so worried about Human Rights, but you will praise, idolize, and promote regimes that make the bad stuff we do look good. Like Assad, Qaddafi, Milosevic, and the PRC.

Kucinich needs to be tried for Treason, and get whatever penalty that entails.

20 Destro  Tue, Dec 11, 2012 8:59:20pm

re: #19 ProGunLiberal

Typical stupid American bullshit. There is a reason America are held in disdain in Europe.

One piece of advide When you travel in Europe, pretend you are Canadian.


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