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1 Ace-o-aces  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 7:49:29am

Hey, you know how Israel achieved independence? Armed struggle!

2 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 8:06:47am

re: #1 Ace-o-aces

Hey, you know how Israel achieved independence? Armed struggle!

Go Away Gordon.

3 Buck  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 9:25:47am

re: #1 Ace-o-aces

Hey, you know how Israel achieved independence? Armed struggle!

That is simply NOT true. It is a lie. Often repeated, but a lie none the less.

The country of Israel was actually created peacefully.

This land was not conquered through bloodshed by the Jews. Yes it was defended with blood. However that is hardly the same thing.

4 Aligarr  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 3:18:43pm

misery ? I can't think of any group of people more worthy,and deserving of the self imposed misery that the palestinians embrace . A popular illusion is that there is a difference in objectives and goals betwem Hama and Fatah, nothing can be further from the truth Both seek Israels utter destruction ,m both seek to remove jews from the land , both envision a Palestine "from river to sea ,with Jerusalem as it capitol . The only difference is, one of which method should be used to attain that common goal .
Long may they suffer , maybe [ not likely] in the course of banging their heads against the wall , some sense will be gained .

5 stabby  Mon, Dec 17, 2012 3:38:24pm

re: #4 Aligarr

Well there are SOME differences.

Hamas is a wing of the Muslim Brotherhood as well as representing a clan.

Hamas doesn't allow elections after winning ONE.

Hamas is known for throwing Fatah supporters off of buildings and shooting some in their hospital beds.

When Hamas came to power there were a few instances of Hamas gangs beating women to death for being seen on a beach with a man, though in two cases those men turned out to be their husbands (the reporting wasn't complete so those might be the only two cases or maybe the information came out later). I remember a doctor saying that he'd never seen such a brutally abused body, and I wonder if that was a hint that they raped the women as well.

On the other hand Fatah came out of the PLO and under Arafat's leadership was responsible for the massacre of an entire Christian village in Lebanon. Arafat was known for calling for a million martyrs to march to Jerusalem and kill the Jews while at the same time pretending he was for peace when speaking for the international community in English.

So yeah. Neither good, but I suspect that Fatah, being more of a kleptocracy than a theocracy would be better for the Palestinians. In either case the only freedom the Palestinians have ever fought for is freedom from Jews


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 Frank says:

Here I stand hoping against hope that it's a chick with a low voice. -- At a concert in Beloit, Wisconsin 1968 or 69, when a guy in the audience yelled out, "Eat me Zappa".