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1 Political Atheist  Thu, Apr 18, 2013 1:08:49pm

Apart from the partisan angle. One question is that is it fair… Well of course not. Every economy brings winners and losers. A certain percentage of poverty.

The other question is that if that means the government A.-Should somewhow step in and B.-Is competent to do so fairly. But fair according to who exactly?

Did this poll measure anything but popular anger? Maybe not.

2 Haywood Jabloeme  Thu, Apr 18, 2013 2:02:59pm

Political Atheist - your question “A. - Should [government] somehow step in and” is misinformed as to be dangerous. The government has already “stepped in” as detailed in the comments that I provided and there are many others examples as how does someone who has an income in the $10-30M range per year pay 13% Income Tax? Is there any rational way that someone who claims the logic to be an atheist can explain now someone MAKES that much money without paying more than 15% back to the society that organizes the economy that they MADE it from? No, the question is the OPPOSITE of what you posited, is it fair that some in a society that organizes and economy where they greatly benefit contributes so little of that back to that society.

3 iossarian  Thu, Apr 18, 2013 2:20:04pm

re: #1 Political Atheist

As HJ says, the government already does a lot to determine the distribution of wealth. Several examples (in both “rich-to-poor” and “poor-to-rich” directions):

- spending public money to protect the private property of wealthy individuals
- investing in public education
- bailing out privately-owned institutions without insisting on public ownership
- paying for people’s healthcare

The question is really, do we want more “poor-to-rich” transfer or “rich-to-poor”? The poll suggests most people want to move in the latter direction.

4 Political Atheist  Thu, Apr 18, 2013 2:58:53pm

re: #2 Haywood Jabloeme
re: #3 iossarian

I guess I should have said step in FURTHER, as we are all already well aware of how the tax and benefit system works today.

And again, by whose measure exactly do we use for fair?

Ultra high salary earners do pay huge taxes. Actors, athletes, surgeons, celebrity endorsers all can have multi million dollar salaries. So what we are really talking about is those who are wealthy and invest in stocks etc. Paper instead of personal skills or attributes. CEO skills.

Our society like many others taxes labor earnings higher % than investment earnings. Again, not a partisan thing, more of a social decision that predates every living politician.

BTW are we to tax the wealthiest (stock $$ earners) masters of domestic manufacture, software, computers and IT technology the same as Wall street traders? I see a problem there. Some folks are making value judgements here about Wall street earners as an ethical underclass, and calling for punitive measures to assuage the pain felt by so many in the great recession. That’s not a good basis for policy. It’s an indulgence.

Do we acknowledge the connection between raising taxes (Clinton era) on corporate heads that then simply motivated them to take their earnings as stock options instead of a high salary?

About this 15% number that is so commonly tossed out as the number for what the rich pay-It does not match the chart as per Wiki. So this discussion is really about deductions right?

Tax rates
Federal tax rates


For regular income tax purposes, a system of graduated marginal tax rates is applied to all taxable income, including capital gains. Through 2011, the marginal tax rates on a corporation’s taxable income are as follows:
Taxable Income ($) Tax Rate[27]
0 to 50,000 15%
50,000 to 75,000 $7,500 25% Of the amount over 50,000
75,000 to 100,000 $13,750 34% Of the amount over 75,000
100,000 to 335,000 $22,250 39% Of the amount over 100,000
335,000 to 10,000,000 $113,900 34% Of the amount over 335,000
10,000,000 to 15,000,000 $3,400,000 35% Of the amount over 10,000,000
15,000,000 to 18,333,333 $5,150,000 38% Of the amount over 15,000,000
18,333,333 and up 35%

This rate structure produces a flat 34% tax rate on incomes from $335,000 to $10,000,000, gradually increasing to a flat rate of 35% on incomes above $18,333,333.

5 sauceruney  Thu, Apr 18, 2013 7:31:37pm

Anyone who’s offshoring money should be deported to the country the bulk of their wealth lives and have their passports revoked so they can’t re-enter this country. Pay taxes on it or GTFO. That’s the redistribution I’m for.

6 Decatur Deb  Thu, Apr 18, 2013 7:33:01pm

re: #5 sauceruney

Anyone who’s offshoring money should be deported to the country the bulk of their wealth lives and have their passports revoked so they can’t re-enter this country. Pay taxes on it or GTFO. That’s the redistribution I’m for.

Taxes countries are for ‘little people’.

7 Haywood Jabloeme  Thu, Apr 18, 2013 10:38:43pm

Political Atheist before you go exerting too much effort to try and figure this out using wiki you might try reading something that give you a place to start. A good author id David Kay Johnson.

en.wikipedia.org

Got a hint for you, your attempt above was naive and misinformed at best. The entire post was fact free then ended with posting the Federal Tax Rate that anyone with any knowledge no one is taxed with. In the same Wiki article that you used to find the Marginal Tax Rates you can find the effective Tax Rates. Where, it clearly shows that the MAXIMUm effective tax rate for any Quintile is ~ 20%.

en.wikipedia.org

And no, the difference isn’t due to deductions it is, as you so naively brushed by above, it is due to the taxation of capital gains. And yes, we like most modern industrialized countries, tax those at a lower rate than we do labor, as it does offer incentives investment. The problem is, unlike those other countries, we don’t have a limit on those incomes that are taxed by capital gaines. Also, since the tax rates on their labor (wages) are so much higher it isn’t saying much to say that the rates on capital gaines are higher.

en.wikipedia.org

I am fairly confident in saying that, with what we’ve seen here, until you’ve put much more effort into actually understanding facts there is not much for you to add.

8 Haywood Jabloeme  Thu, Apr 18, 2013 10:40:34pm

I meant that the rates on capital gaines are lower.


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