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1 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jun 15, 2013 7:36:37am

I’m very sorry GGT, but the article you link to is of poor quality and fails to make the needed link with Congressman Franks. It also only uses part of his statement which eliminates an important bit of context. The full context:

When asked about exceptions for cases of rape or incest, Franks said at the hearing it was “flawed” logic to think a pregnant woman would wait six months to report a rape.

“To say that we wait until then, to say that there’s a rape or incest involved, is waiting too long,” he said, adding that laws need to be tougher on rapists.

When he was asked why his legislation does not include a requirement that rape be reported-as for exception cases in other abortion laws-Franks replied with his controversial comment.

“Before, when my friends on the left side of the aisle here tried to make rape and incest the subject- because you know the, the incidents of rape resulting in pregnancy are very low, but when you make that exception, there’s usually a requirement to report the rape within 48 hours.”

“And in this case, that’s impossible because this is in the sixth month of gestation, and that’s what completely negates and vitiates the purpose of such an amendment,” he added.

(italics mine)

Thus, Franks point was that a rape/incest exception didn’t add anything to the bill, given the bills purpose and structure. Such an exception has now been added, though that happened on Thursday, after both articles’ had been posted. But even with the original bill, Trent Franks wasn’t letting out a Akin-type DERP, he was trying (though he screwed up and admitted he had, unlike Akin) to make clear why he felt a rape/incest exception in his bill was unneeded and would create legal confusion.

Moreover, the Slate article does not link Trent Franks to the discredited research. It does not say if Franks’ committee report cited it or if Franks promoted a book or group that cites it. Thus the article fails in its primary purpose.

Please be careful with sources, GGT. I respect you greatly, but in this case the article you linked to was poorly written and relied on guilt by association.

This comment should be read as a partial defense of Congressman Trent Franks.

2 FemNaziBitch  Sat, Jun 15, 2013 7:56:58am

Well, DF, I take it as a defense of Franks.

3 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jun 15, 2013 8:46:03am

re: #2 FemNaziBitch

Well, DF, I take it as a defense of Franks.

It not a defense of his bill, but I did think the article made him out to be a lot worse than he is. Neither he nor his beliefs are anywhere near as problematic as Todd Akin and his beliefs. I felt that the article’s problems needed to be pointed out, and I had to defend Trent Franks to do so. It was also a matter of justice, because I don’t like someone being accursed of an association they do not in fact have.

4 FemNaziBitch  Sat, Jun 15, 2013 11:57:02am
At a congressional hearing Wednesday, Rep. Trent Franks, a Republican from Arizona, argued against an exception for rape and incest victims from a ban on abortions after 20 weeks of pregnancy. He said, “Before, when my friends on the left side of the aisle here tried to make rape and incest the subject—because, you know, the incidence of rape resulting in pregnancy are very low.”

Background on the “Legitimate Rape concept and the Nazi Death Camps:

In 1972, he (Fred Mecklenburg) authored a book chapter, “The Indications for Induced Abortion: A Physician’s Perspective”, which argued in part that pregnancy from rape “is extremely rare.”[13] The chapter appeared in a book titled Abortion and Social Justice, written in response to arguments before the Supreme Court regarding legalizing abortion in Roe v. Wade. Mecklenburg added that a woman exposed to the trauma of rape “will not ovulate even if she is ‘scheduled’ to.”[14] Mecklenburg said researchers in Nazi death camps observed this effect by “selecting women who were about to ovulate and sending them to the gas chambers, only to bring them back after their realistic mock-killing, to see what the effect this had on their ovulatory patterns. An extremely high percentage of these women did not ovulate.”[14] Journalist Blythe Bernhard stated, “That article has influenced two generations of anti-abortion activists with the hope to build a medical case to ban all abortions without any exception.”[15]

5 FemNaziBitch  Sat, Jun 15, 2013 11:57:31am

Here are links to source documents which I found in a google search-I don’t normally go to this site, yet, it is good information for this post.

I searched all three referenced articles from this Christian Life Article by Wilke and could not find the documents. Pub Med does have articles going back to the 1970’s but nothing for these. Google searches only came up with more of the same —articles citing the references, but no links.

Both Wilkes books are available online, but Menklenburg’s is listed (used) on ABE.com. (part of an anthology by Thomas Hilger)

I found another politician using the same flawed data in his campain against abortion.

So, the entire “legitimate rape” argument seems to come from one source, Dr. Frank Mecklenburg, who cites Nazi Experiments to support his argument against abortion.

It doesn’t matter if any of these poiliticans are card-carrying Supremacists, their reliance one piece flimsy evidence and that being one obscure reference to a horrible regime in the face of overwhelming documented, evidendence-based modern science is enough for me to put their motives in question.

The “pregnancy’s are rare from legitmate rape” argument is a malicious. Yet it is a meme that seems to be popular. articles.philly.com

6 FemNaziBitch  Sat, Jun 15, 2013 12:02:45pm

When even Brent Bozell at the National Review states it is untrue, one has to wonder at any so-called conservative politican who would continue to spread the lie that is so injurous to women’s health.

Americans United for Life was founded by Brent Bozell, a Catholic activist (and William F. Buckley’s brother-in-law) who wrote for the National Review.

On Monday, the National Review’s editors called for Akin to quit the race, saying there was “no evidence for Akin’s biological claim.”

Note: the articles.philly.com from my previous post does not connect to the second reference I found. The correct link is the one above in the National Review reference. This article cites Phd’s.

7 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jun 15, 2013 8:12:34pm

re: #4 FemNaziBitch

Note that Franks did not attempt to use the ‘legitimate rape’ line, he was talking about the incidence of pregnancy from rape and it wasn’t even the main point of his statement. He also made clear both while speaking and later that he favors strong laws and harsh punishments for rapists.

The article attempts to link Franks to Akin, but it does not contain facts that would justify such a link.

8 FemNaziBitch  Sun, Jun 16, 2013 12:25:25am

So, the fact that he was repeating and therefore lending credence to false and injurious information means nothing to you?

9 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Jun 16, 2013 3:33:55pm

re: #8 FemNaziBitch

So, the fact that he was repeating and therefore lending credence to false and injurious information means nothing to you?

No, that means something. But the article you linked to didn’t just say he was wrong. It dwelled on a badly flawed source that it did not link Trent Franks to. Fred Mecklenburg and Todd Akin aren’t relevant to the matter the article is ostensibly about unless it can tie the problematic ‘research’ of the form or the views of the latter to Franks, and the article fails to do either.

A piece that omits key context (the full quote by Franks) and fails to make links crucial to its argument is a piece of drek and can’t be relied on.

10 FemNaziBitch  Mon, Jun 17, 2013 12:00:03pm

re: #9 Dark_Falcon

No, that means something. But the article you linked to didn’t just say he was wrong. It dwelled on a badly flawed source that it did not link Trent Franks to. Fred Mecklenburg and Todd Akin aren’t relevant to the matter the article is ostensibly about unless it can tie the problematic ‘research’ of the form or the views of the latter to Franks, and the article fails to do either.

A piece that omits key context (the full quote by Franks) and fails to make links crucial to its argument is a piece of drek and can’t be relied on.

He is perpetuating false information —the article addressed that.


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