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1 Ace-o-aces  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 8:45:17am

Actually, the book subverts the themes of xenophobia and adolescent megalomania , since the Buggers are not evil and had no intention of attacking Earth again - so Ender didn’t actually need the save the world, and everybody ands up hating him for what he did.

2 debit  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 9:02:40am

I am really torn. I enjoyed the book, and the trailer makes the movie look like it could be very well done. However, I am reluctant to have even one dime of my money go to Card.

3 KiTA  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 9:12:39am

Personally, I’d be more concerned with the fact that Ender’s Game was ghost written by a group of Neo-Nazis, but that’s just me.

kuro5hin.org

You can find the article that set Card off here:
peachfront.diaryland.com

And another good article on the whole thing here:
www4.ncsu.edu

Basically, there are a LOT of parallels between Ender and a certain A. H., so many that it cannot be a coincidence, and Card… seemingly didn’t know. The only way that 1+2 can add up in this case is if someone ghost-wrote the novels for Card and didn’t let him in on the joke.

4 Dr. Matt  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 9:24:38am

OT: Anyone else think Harrison Ford’s acting is declining? From the last Raiders installment to this trailer, he doesn’t seem comfortable and looks forced.

5 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 9:45:11am

re: #3 KiTA

Those are really interesting viewpoints, and very well-written, but the ghost-writing contention is pretty slim. I think it’s more likely Card wrote the book in a way to defend that sort of behavior without making the connection himself because he’s kind of nuts.

6 Political Atheist  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 10:05:34am

This is far from the first time we have seen objectionable views from someone involved in a film.

When we consider voting with our dollars, we have to look at all of them. First, I’m not sure whether Orson already was paid in full. or has a continued revenue deal. Then let’s consider who else loses out if a widespread boycott is effective. A bunch of actors, the studio, maybe the sub genre takes a hit. The author of the book is not the big money maker. Writers are not the big moneymakers in a film. If your ticket is $18 in a really nice venue, how much of that will Orson Scott Card get? Not much at all. The studio, actors and set crews are where most of the money goes.

This is not a film Orson owns, or funded. Not at all like Mel Gibson who makes his own films. In that case your money vote carries far more weight.

What a lot of people are not aware of is the studios get about all the money in the opening week or weeks. See the movie late in it’s run and you are supporting the theater more than the studio.

Personally I am invoking my Sean Penn/Mel Gibson/Oliver Stone rule-I go for the story, the quality, & appeal of the film. If Orson comes out with another novel though I’d probably decline a purchase.

7 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 10:06:52am

re: #6 Political Atheist

Yeah, the people raking most of the profits will be large corporate investors, who are probably unethical shitheads on a scale that makes Card look like a piker.

Buying purely ethically is pretty much impossible, and I’m not sure it’s all that worthwhile.

8 debit  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 10:47:41am

re: #6 Political Atheist

Very valid points. However, if the movie is a hit, who will benefit? The studios and actors, but Card as well, even if he doesn’t see any of the box office money. Since studios love sequels, they’ll probably option Ender’s Shadow (if they haven’t already) and/or possibly look at other works from Card.

It’s also possible I’m not rational about this; he is a vile human being, he supports and advocates for people and beliefs that turns my stomach and anything associated with him will forever be tainted for me.

9 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 10:53:48am

re: #8 debit

Lots of awesome writers and artists were worse human beings. Do you actually winnow what you’ll look at and consume based on the ethics of its creator?

10 Decatur Deb  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 10:57:02am

re: #9 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

Lots of awesome writers and artists were worse human beings. Do you actually winnow what you’ll look at and consume based on the ethics of its creator?

To a great extent, yes. I wouldn’t pay to see ‘Birth of a Nation’ because I admire the filming of the chase scenes.

The lighting in ‘The Jew Suss’ is very impressive.

11 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 10:59:27am

re: #10 Decatur Deb

I’ve watched Birth of a Nation because, while terrible, it’s an important historical artifact. I don’t think Card’s deal rises to that level, though.

I do think that various corporations benefiting from this (or any other movie) are probably ethically shittier than Card, though.

12 debit  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 11:00:30am

re: #9 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

No, I don’t personally vet the creator of each and every work I consume. But if I’m aware of acts I find objectionable or repugnant by said creator, then I make a decision on whether or not I can appreciate the work on its own merits, and if I feel like rewarding the creator with my money. Surely that’s not unusual.

13 Decatur Deb  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 11:01:39am

re: #11 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

I’ve watched Birth of a Nation because, while terrible, it’s an important historical artifact. I don’t think Card’s deal rises to that level, though.

I do think that various corporations benefiting from this (or any other movie) are probably ethically shittier than Card, though.

I’ve seen both films, don’t need to see them again. I’d never do anything to bring profit to their sponsors. Pretty silly to boycott Walmart tubesocks and support toxic ideas.

14 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 11:02:07am

re: #12 debit

I think it’s more unusual for us to know anything about the artist’s personal beliefs.

Norm MacDonald either is or pretends to be incredibly socially conservative, I just learned the other week.

15 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 11:03:51am

re: #13 Decatur Deb

I really wish Futurama wasn’t on FOX.

16 Decatur Deb  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 11:06:28am

re: #15 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

I really wish Futurama wasn’t on FOX.

There are other videos out there. What alarms me is finding myself on the same side of the barricade with Dee Snider, Ozzie Osborne and other shit musicians.

17 Interesting Times  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 11:07:31am

re: #16 Decatur Deb

There are other videos out there. What alarms me is finding myself on the same side of the barricade with Dee Snider, Ozzie Osborne and other shit musicians.

Only Ted Nugent fits that description literally.

18 JeffFX  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 11:45:47am

re: #7 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

Yeah, the people raking most of the profits will be large corporate investors, who are probably unethical shitheads on a scale that makes Card look like a piker.

Buying purely ethically is pretty much impossible, and I’m not sure it’s all that worthwhile.

Of course buying purely ethically is impossible, but when the toxic behavior is as in your face as Card’s, I think it crosses a line.

Not that many people seeking my money are as publicly awful as Card, so it’s not a hardship to deny these people my cash. It’s the same as not going to Chic-Fil-A because the owner is so openly an asshole.

19 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 11:56:06am

re: #18 JeffFX

I think boycotts are great because they draw attention to the horribleness, the only thing I’m really objecting to is the fine-tuning of “My money shouldn’t go into his unethical hands!”, because, realistically, we have very little idea where our money goes most of the time.

I think a boycott of Lionsgate in general rather than just the film would be a better idea, though. Card isn’t going to change. They might.

20 Political Atheist  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 12:03:18pm

re: #14 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

I think it’s more unusual for us to know anything about the artist’s personal beliefs.

Norm MacDonald either is or pretends to be incredibly socially conservative, I just learned the other week.

Some keep it personal some just put it out there or openly advocate from the award podium or talkshow. So many perhaps like debit fall into the group that just hears about the more extreme few or that run afoul of a bad press week. Bruce Boxleitner keeps his views fairly quiet, Jon Voight no so much LOL.

21 Political Atheist  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 12:10:50pm

re: #19 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

I think a boycott of Lionsgate in general rather than just the film would be a better idea, though. Card isn’t going to change. They might.

I take it you are unimpressed with Lionsgate record overall and their response? Or is that more about boycotts & how they work?

22 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 12:14:58pm

re: #21 Political Atheist

I take it you are unimpressed with Lionsgate record overall and their response? Or is that more about boycotts & how they work?

I probably actually have a dimmer view of Hollywood than your average Tea Party guy, and I basically encourage everyone to boycott all Hollywood movies at the drop of a hat until the studios get their shit together and stop putting out absolute crap, often relying on sexism, racism, or race exploitation and just generally being a waste of fucking money and talent.

23 debit  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 12:15:26pm

re: #19 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

I think boycotts are great because they draw attention to the horribleness, the only thing I’m really objecting to is the fine-tuning of “My money shouldn’t go into his unethical hands!”, because, realistically, we have very little idea where our money goes most of the time.

Why object at all? If denying Lionsgate my ten bucks won’t make a difference but satisfies my own personal moral imperative, then what’s the issue?

24 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 12:20:36pm

re: #23 debit

Why object at all? If denying Lionsgate my ten bucks won’t make a difference but satisfies my own personal moral imperative, then what’s the issue?

Why object to what? I’m sorry, I don’t understand. Do you mean why object to what you’re doing? I didn’t object. I asked a question.

25 debit  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 12:23:48pm

re: #24 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

See the first sentence I quoted. Sorry, I’m not trying to pick a fight, but you actually did say you were objecting.

26 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 12:48:05pm

re: #25 debit

See the first sentence I quoted. Sorry, I’m not trying to pick a fight, but you actually did say you were objecting.

Oh, sorry, I meant I’m objecting to the idea that it’s an actual ethical calculus, since the other variables— who else is profiting— isn’t filled in. But you’re totally right, I said object, and should have just ctrl-Fed.

27 goddamnedfrank  Sat, Jul 13, 2013 3:52:11pm
Now it will be interesting to see whether the victorious proponents of gay marriage will show tolerance toward those who disagreed with them when the issue was still in dispute,”

-Orson Scott Card

I’m curious what that tolerance is supposed to look like though, since he’s framing official bigotry, enshrined in law, as if it’s but a simple disagreement. Is it intolerant to label anti gay prejudice for what it is, because in an apples to apples comparison the only standard pro same sex marriage proponents should have to meet is to not invalidate the marriages of fundamentalist bigots like Card. So yeah, great point, isn’t that a goddamned interesting thing to wonder about, are intellectually gutshot fucks like Card about to become the real victims in all this?


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