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1 William Burns  Sun, Jan 12, 2014 2:37:21pm

What do you want, people shouldn’t be allowed to mention this? Anyway, in the thread you get the usual “it’s really the Arab’s fault” and “what about Hebron 1929” crowd so its not like no-one’s challenging it.

2 The War TARDIS  Sun, Jan 12, 2014 8:30:18pm

She doesn’t think Arabs or Muslims are human.

Just had a bad day, so I am a touch testy right now.

3 rosiee  Sun, Jan 12, 2014 10:40:28pm

re: #2 The War TARDIS

You lack introspection.

4 theye1  Sun, Jan 12, 2014 11:18:04pm

I’m disinclined to whitewash someone just because he is dead; Ariel Sharon is deeply complicated and controversial figure; not just because of the Quibya massacre or the Sabra and Shatila massacre (which was a total white wash).

5 rosiee  Mon, Jan 13, 2014 12:11:55am

re: #4 theye1

The only people washing anything are the anti-Israel folks.
In Israel there is full disclosure of past wrong-doings.
Do Arabs hold their own governments accountable for the deaths and misery they cause?
Do you see how Palestinians are used in an anti-semitic and cynical way as a wedge against the Israeli people.

“refugees” who have spent 2 generations in camps

the only people accorded refugee status past the first generation.

the world shakes it’s finger at Israel and colludes itself from any wrong doing.

Israel truly is the Goldstein of 1984.

6 theye1  Mon, Jan 13, 2014 1:27:16am

re: #5 rosiee

The only people washing anything are the anti-Israel folks.
In Israel there is full disclosure of past wrong-doings..

The Kahan Commission was a whitewash, for a number of reasons:

1) Kahan Commission was very selective and biased in who they chose as Witnesses. They accepted the testimony of Israeli soldiers, while they disregarded the testimony of Jewish nurses who were at Sabra and Shatila.

2) Israeli intelligence itself concluded before hand that there was no Combatants before the Phalangists were sent in.

3) IDF maintained that they couldn’t see the massacre, despite being the command post being in full view of a mass grave, and very close Shatila (and I mean hundreds of metres).

4) Perhaps the most damning was that the Phalangists shared a headquarters while massacres was being planned, and some of the IDF officers admitted to hearing some of the details.

I dislike the implication that if I criticize Israel, in a few instances, that I am somehow anti-semitic. They were morally, if not legally, wrong in their behaviour during the Sabra and Shatila massacre. It disturbs me that you don’t recognize it.

7 rosiee  Mon, Jan 13, 2014 1:37:44am

re: #6 theye1

What else was going on in the 80’s?
Your myopic vision, transfixed on the scapegoat, misses the great picture.

8 BusyMonster  Mon, Jan 13, 2014 10:34:02am
This is the front page of the most easily-trolled site in the world.

Fixed for ya. I briefly engaged in Redditing but I realized that with any really big thing, the parasites have already arrived to fuck up a good thing. There are folks who are canny enough, like sharks, to recognize what the biggest thing in the water is, and glom onto it, and they arrive an find to their horror that the mainstream does not agree with them here, either, so they set about trying to normalize their bullshit. Once I realize that kind of thing is going on, I usually lose interest.

9 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 13, 2014 2:05:44pm

re: #3 rosiee

You lack introspection.

That is not true. PLL is quite capable of introspection and he does it regularly. You should know that, Rosiee. So while I updinged your page I have to downding this post.

10 theye1  Mon, Jan 13, 2014 3:07:42pm

re: #7 rosiee

Do you think Israel’s behaviour during the Sabra and Shatila Massacre was wrong?

11 Romantic Heretic  Mon, Jan 13, 2014 4:27:37pm

rosiee? You are a classic example of the Taoist aphorism: What you resist, you become.

12 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 13, 2014 9:09:45pm

re: #11 Romantic Heretic

rosiee? You are a classic example of the Taoist aphorism: What you resist, you become.

True in some ways, but not really in this case. Rosiee is a fundamentally decent person. She couldn’t be as evil as the Islamists she opposes, it’s just not who she is nor who she wants to be.

Again, your point is well made, but it has limits to its use that I feel largely preclude it in this case.

13 palomino  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 12:57:12am

re: #6 theye1

The Kahan Commission was a whitewash, for a number of reasons:

1) Kahan Commission was very selective and biased in who they chose as Witnesses. They accepted the testimony of Israeli soldiers, while they disregarded the testimony of Jewish nurses who were at Sabra and Shatila.

2) Israeli intelligence itself concluded before hand that there was no Combatants before the Phalangists were sent in.

3) IDF maintained that they couldn’t see the massacre, despite being the command post being in full view of a mass grave, and very close Shatila (and I mean hundreds of metres).

4) Perhaps the most damning was that the Phalangists shared a headquarters while massacres was being planned, and some of the IDF officers admitted to hearing some of the details.

I dislike the implication that if I criticize Israel, in a few instances, that I am somehow anti-semitic. They were morally, if not legally, wrong in their behaviour during the Sabra and Shatila massacre. It disturbs me that you don’t recognize it.

I have similarly disliked being judged “anti-American” for opposing some of my government’s policies and actions. Wars, for example.

Can anyone tell me how I was anti-American for opposing the invasion of Iraq back in 2003?

Total load of shit. Hiding behind one’s flag and then using it to demonize one’s own fellow citizens.

14 Jayleia  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 6:22:26am

re: #5 rosiee

The only people washing anything are the anti-Israel folks.
In Israel there is full disclosure of past wrong-doings.

No to the first part, you over generalize there. Qualified partial agreement on the second, its bullshit that its fully disclosed. And even if past wrong-doings are disclosed, that rarely does anything to make it right, never mind some of the things done CAN’T be undone, they can only be endured or responded to.

Do Arabs hold their own governments accountable for the deaths and misery they cause?

Because only A-rab governments cause problems? Nobody is going to disagree if you say that the middle east is fucked up. EVERYBODY had a hand in making it the mess it is now though, although the people least capable of dealing with a government that will send tanks into their own cities or order aerial or artillery bombardment on their own cities are the people whose families live in those cities.


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