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1 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 6:30:50am

How would that equate to us misunderstanding our place in the universe?

2 Political Atheist  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 9:39:15am

re: #1 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

Well perhaps your question would be better answered by the author, but I took “our” to mean we as in life (not just us humans) did not begin when where or how we think it did.

1. Far earlier.

2. In very different circumstances, perhaps far and away more vastly.

3. Not tied to a tiny habitable zone.

4.-This might point the way to panspermia/transpermia theory-the idea life or life’s building blocks are all over the universe, far more commonly than we had previously thought. Maybe life or it’s essential precursors did come from space rather than sparking here.

3 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 10:15:52am

re: #2 Political Atheist

I don’t get how life occuring far earlier, but in circumstances that specifically would not allow intelligent life to develop, affect our place in the universe at all.

It’s just a weird phrase to use if what it actually means that it alters our view of abiogenesis. That really doesn’t have anything to do with ‘our place in the universe’.

4 Political Atheist  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 10:21:16am

re: #3 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

Perhaps you are just taking a headline too literally. There is supposed to be some creative room there. How strictly one thinks “our” should be taken right? Anyway that point is minor headline semantics.

The idea presented is a fascinating one, whatever the headline.

5 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 10:26:32am

re: #4 Political Atheist

It’s not just the headline, it’s throughout the article.

It’s a cool scientific discovery, it’s a shame it got journalized into this ‘provocative’ assault on our place in the universe.

1. Life developed in many places during an early time period, but couldn’t possibly have developed intelligent life during that time period.

2. Life didn’t develop in many places during that early time period.

No real actual difference to us today, and the idea that life on earth was seeded from outer space is not at all new.


Moreover, the article is basically confusing. It appears to be talking about this early time period where life could have evolved, but then talks about the current state of things in the universe. Can you draw the connection for me?

6 Political Atheist  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 11:24:17am

The author appears to be talking about this early time period where life could have evolved, but then talks about the current state of things in the universe. Can you draw the connection for me?

It could have been better, I’m more forgiving of the literary flaws I guess.

The idea our earthly life came here from space is not new, but it is far from accepted. Evidence is thin so far. As to that early phase of life-That’s where the material for panspermia may have come from. That early state had the conditions to make what spread over the eons. Just a speculation of course, really hoping more comes out on this later.

And good to see you back on the board BTW.

7 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 11:27:39am

re: #6 Political Atheist

It could have been better, I’m more forgiving of the literary flaws I guess.

The idea our earthly life came here from space is not new, but it is far from accepted. Evidence is thin so far. As to that early phase of life-That’s where the material for panspermia may have come from. That early state had the conditions to make what spread over the eons. Just a speculation of course, really hoping more comes out on this later.

And good to see you back on the board BTW.

But how does that affect our view of our place in the universe? Our view of our place in the universe really isn’t affected by ‘amino acids combined in a certain way on earth’ vs. ‘they combined in a certain way somewhere else, then crashed here on a meteorite’.

8 Political Atheist  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 11:31:09am

re: #7 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

It goes against the idea that life first or only happened here. Many hold one or both of those views. Many don’t feel as you and I.

9 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 11:39:08am

re: #8 Political Atheist

It goes against the idea that life first or only happened here. Many hold one or both of those views. Many don’t feel as you and I.

The idea that life only happened here is not a scientific belief. There is a belief that the odds are against intelligent life evolving in many places because of the incredible number of different conditions necessary for it. This discovery doesn’t even address that idea.

Can you name any person who would be challenged by this idea, who wouldn’t be challenged by any scientific idea of life’s beginning?

10 Political Atheist  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 11:47:15am

re: #9 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

The science of life’s origins is unsettled to say the least. IMO-The dea life maybe formed way before what we might have thought previously is a worthwhile idea regardless of the state of the science so far.

I think you are applying a standard about the intended audience the author did not. And one I don’t think applies. The article is aimed at the general public. That’s people like us, people more or less educated than us and those who are challenged by anything not faith based. I disagree with excluding people as a valid part of the articles audience based on my or your assumptions of what might challenge their thinking.

Sorry the article falls below what you find worthwhile.

11 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 11:58:55am

re: #10 Political Atheist

The science of life’s origins is unsettled to say the least. IMO-The dea life maybe formed way before what we might have thought previously is a worthwhile idea regardless of the state of the science so far.

Yeah, and I’ve said it’s an awesome discovery.

I think you are applying a standard about the intended audience the author did not.

So you think that this article will change the understanding of creationists and the like?

Sorry the article falls below what you find worthwhile.

The article bizarrely ties together the idea that life might have existed during this time in the past with the current state of the universe, and it claims that this idea of extraterrestrial abiogenesis challenges our understanding of our concept in the universe. The first is just confusing and makes little sense, the latter seems incorrect. As you say, people of ‘faith’ who don’t believe in any scientific explanation of abiogenesis might be ‘challenged’ by this, but they’d be challenged by a terrestrial theory of abiogenesis too, so that really doesn’t make a lot of sense.

Do you understand what I’m saying?

12 Political Atheist  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 2:39:23pm

re: #11 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

Yes, and I find it less bizarre.

13 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 2:42:19pm

re: #12 Political Atheist

Yes, and I find it less bizarre.

Less bizarre than what?


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