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8 comments

1 Thanos  Jan 7, 2015 12:11:07pm

To me his beef should be with the hospital for listing him as involuntarily committed instead of voluntarily admitted, that’s what triggered the required action under the law. I don’t have a beef with a law that says people who are involuntarily committed should be looked at as potential risks if they have guns. This was the right wing outrage Du Jour three days ago, I didn’t think it amounted to much back then nor now. This is the RW once again trying to make an exception and a mistake appear as the rule.

2 Rightwingconspirator  Jan 7, 2015 1:25:05pm

re: #1 Randall Gross

*Sigh*. Can’t let a fever among the RWNJ community to make me hesitate to point something like this out.

First I would say given the stakes and language of the law the state has a duty to properly check the medical report. So that’s a double, not single fail.

I agree a person that meets the “imminent threat to themselves or another” aka Baker Act aka “could be involuntarily admitted” should lose their guns until deemed no longer a threat. At the same time we want solid due process. That means notice and opportunity about rights of appeal etc. All missing here if the allegations are substantiated.

The state does not get to escalate the policy above the language or fail to follow procedures in the pursuit of public safety / gun control.

The right of the state to confiscate the guns triggers really serious oversight and due process in my view. A powerful right to confiscate all arms possessed must be matched by powerful transparency and due process. The law may not include vague standards nor fail to require a level of medical expertise in the judgement of the patient.

This is not like a drivers license. This has direct impact on a persons constitutional rights, and not just the 2nd either. Maybe least of all the 2nd.

3 Dark_Falcon  Jan 7, 2015 3:39:08pm

re: #2 Rightwingconspirator

Very well said. To which I’ll add that the NY SAFE Act was ignorantly and poorly written and has had a good number of these kind of problems. The New York legislature won’t revist it, but they should.

4 Rightwingconspirator  Jan 7, 2015 4:02:24pm

re: #3 Dark_Falcon

Thanks. California passed something similar but with more due process and higher standards. Just not surprised NY effed this up. It is being treated like an exploitable moment, not a law that calls for due diligence.

5 The Vicious Babushka  Jan 7, 2015 5:58:39pm

People have committed shooting attacks while on Ambien (insomnia medication)

6 Rightwingconspirator  Jan 7, 2015 6:00:59pm

re: #5 The Vicious Babushka
How do we know the ambien was the cause?
They have also happened when inebriated with booze. Being a drinker does not prohibit gun ownership or alter certain legal rights.

7 goddamnedfrank  Jan 7, 2015 6:07:53pm

re: #2 Rightwingconspirator

*Sigh*. Can’t let a fever among the RWNJ community to make me hesitate to point something like this out.

First I would say given the stakes and language of the law the state has a duty to properly check the medical report.

How exactly does the State do that when the hospital refuses to amend the report? The fault if there is one lies there. Because the second you start saying the State should be allowed to second guess such medical documents it can go the other way, and the State can decided that a stay was actually involuntary when the hospital insists and officially lists it as voluntary.

8 Rightwingconspirator  Jan 7, 2015 6:22:43pm

re: #7 goddamnedfrank

Not my question to answer. the obligation surely is on the state to implement a policy that prevents or at least addresses short of civil action any error like this. They own it. The obligation is theirs not ours to figure it out.

Plus lets not forget the law is wrong in as many as four different ways-

Violation of patient privacy. May be this should be allowed in a truly ebregious instance, but they gotta do better than this.

Violation of the equal protection clause.
Violation of due process. This thing was written to deny due process!

In the instance of the case it’s a crystal clear violation of the guys 2nd amendment rights.

Let’s not lose sight of what all they took away with this, the enthusiasm with which it is being applied. This makes fears of unfair confiscation real.


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