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11 comments

1 No Country For Old Haters  Mar 9, 2015 12:26:22pm
Right now I have no idea whether or not the officer was justified in shooting this young man

Can there ever be a justification for police to be unable to take an unarmed man into custody without killing him? It seems like a lot of police can’t do their job without screwing up and killing people.

2 HappyWarrior  Mar 9, 2015 12:57:01pm

re: #1 No Country For Old Haters

Can there ever be a justification for police to be unable to take an unarmed man into custody without killing him? It seems like a lot of police can’t do their job without screwing up and killing people.

Exactly how I feel about this and the other cases. It seems we have too many cops that are willing to kill people rather than deal with situations without a loss of life.

3 Great White Snark  Mar 9, 2015 1:26:38pm

I wish we knew how hard a fight he put up. It’s almost always a system fail when an unarmed man gets killed in an arrest. It’s a lot more likely one v one. It takes a high level of violence against a P.O. to justify killing. But the cop has an obligation to complete the arrest so they don’t back off ever.

heavy.com

None?
Robinson’s mother, Andrea Irwin talked Saturday morning to WKOW and said, “My son has never been a violent person. And to die in such a violent, violent way, it baffles me.”

Or quite a bit?

But Robinson did have a criminal history. He pleaded guilty to armed robbery, a felony, in October 2014, according to state court records. He was sentenced to 120 days in jail, which was stayed by the judge, and three years of probation. He was arrested along with four others in April 2014 after a home invasion in Madison, according to the Wisconsin State Journal. Police said at the time that the group was seen entering an apartment, one armed with a shotgun. They stole electronics and other property.

4 Lumberhead  Mar 9, 2015 2:32:41pm

re: #3 Great White Snark

I stand by what I said, I don’t have enough info to say whether the shooting was justified, but also haven’t seen any reporting that describes anything violent about that previous incident. Every description I’ve seen makes it seem more like a burglary where one of them was carrying a firearm. Given the stats laid out in the Vox article, how likely is it that a young black male that participated in a violent “home invasion” would have his sentence stayed and be given probation?

5 William Barnett-Lewis  Mar 9, 2015 2:49:53pm

From my former priest in Madison:

Madison isn’t Ferguson
Posted on March 9, 2015
Madison is deeply divided racially. I’ve written before about the chasm separating whites from African-Americans in our city and county. You can follow some of those posts and sermons here. The Race to Equity report from 2013 lays out the details and is a must read. It’s available here: WCCF-R2E-Report

The contrasts are especially striking when it comes to the criminal justice system. While arrest rates for African-Americans in general, and African-American juveniles are down over the last decades, they remain considerably higher than those of whites and of the national averages. For example, in 2010, the arrest rate for African-American juveniles was 469 per 1000; for white juveniles it was 77. Nationally among the same age group, the rates were 71 per 1000 for African-Americans, 33 for whites. Although African-Americans account for only 9% of Dane County’s youth, they make up 80% of those sentenced to Wisconsin’s juvenile correctional facility. In 2012,43% of the new adult prison population were African-American men, while they account for only 4.8% of the county’s total population. More information on these statistics is available here.

But it’s important to note the significant differences as well. Perhaps those differences are best exemplified by the response of the city’s leadership to Tony Robinson’s death. Both Mayor Soglin and Chief Koval were on the scene of the shooting Friday night. Michael Johnson, head of the Boys and Girls Clubs of Madison, took Chief Koval to meet with Tony’s family that night where he prayed with them. In his press conference on Saturday, Koval refused to comment on Robinson’s background. There’s an informative piece on Chief Koval here.

There’s another difference. The shooting did not take place in some strip mall in the suburbs or in a primarily African-American neighborhood. It took place on Williamson (Willy) Street, close to downtown and in the heart of Madison’s eastside, most progressive neighborhood. It really is quite jarring to drive down Willy St. as we did yesterday on our way to visit friends. As you drive past the artisanal butcher shops, bakeries, and shops, you suddenly see four or five police cruisers, police tape blocking the sidewalk. Just as quickly, the site recedes from your rear-view mirror. The wound in our social fabric won’t disappear so easily.

The response from the community has been remarkable. The engagement of African-American leadership, clergy, politicians, and ordinary folks has already made a difference. There is anger, yes. There is grief and mourning. But there is also renewed commitment to work on our city’s problems, to work toward solutions, so that Madison can become one of American’s “most livable cities,” not just for whites, but for everyone.

gracerector.wordpress.com

6 William Barnett-Lewis  Mar 9, 2015 2:51:58pm

re: #3 Great White Snark

IIt takes a high level of violence against a P.O. to justify killing.

Be nice to live in that world. One I live in says a cop can kill you for looking at him sideways and unless you’re rich AND white nothing will happen.

7 WhatEVs  Mar 9, 2015 2:53:46pm

re: #3 Great White Snark

I wish we knew how hard a fight he put up. It’s almost always a system fail when an unarmed man gets killed in an arrest. It’s a lot more likely one v one. It takes a high level of violence against a P.O. to justify killing. But the cop has an obligation to complete the arrest so they don’t back off ever.

heavy.com

Or quite a bit?

But Robinson did have a criminal history. He pleaded guilty to armed robbery, a felony, in October 2014, according to state court records. He was sentenced to 120 days in jail, which was stayed by the judge, and three years of probation. He was arrested along with four others in April 2014 after a home invasion in Madison, according to the Wisconsin State Journal. Police said at the time that the group was seen entering an apartment, one armed with a shotgun. They stole electronics and other property.

I know little about this whole event but, and I am not advocating or excusing this in any way, shape or form, there is a difference between actual violence and perceived violence. Meaning, who was carrying a gun in that home invasion? (Home invasion is usually a robbery when someone is home vs B&E with a weapon, right?) Was it this guy?

Let’s now assume for a moment that it was this guy. Yeah, it was a shitty thing to do, especially if they scared the living daylights out of the owners, but isn’t that what the court system is for? To lock perpetrators up in prison…not to execute them on the street?

We’ve gone from a system of rules and laws to an allowed vigilante system with police being the lone arbiters of meting out justice. And that justice is apparently wild, wild west style.

8 Great White Snark  Mar 9, 2015 4:16:51pm

re: #7 WhatEVs

I know little about this whole event but,

re: #4 Lumberhead

I stand by what I said, I don’t have enough info to say whether the shooting was justified,…

That’s the issue. We don’t know enough to judge this one. So perhaps we shouldn’t until we have more. To reiterate what I have said a few times it’s a system fail almost always when an unarmed man gets killed by a cop. What is happening out there is more of the same old over violent bigotry form cops that have a bad attitude and zero effective oversight. What we also have is men literally fighting to keep their freedom from arrest and prison. I think we need to be cautious about accusations either way, hence the careful way I posted above. Mom, and the legal record.

I’m gonna guess he did not carry a gun in that home invasion and did not injure anyone. That’s great. I will also say that if anyone ever invaded my home and fled at the sight of my gun, got arrested, I’d be highly pissed off at mere probation.

9 Dark_Falcon  Mar 9, 2015 5:30:53pm

re: #7 WhatEVs

I know little about this whole event but, and I am not advocating or excusing this in any way, shape or form, there is a difference between actual violence and perceived violence. Meaning, who was carrying a gun in that home invasion? (Home invasion is usually a robbery when someone is home vs B&E with a weapon, right?) Was it this guy?

Let’s now assume for a moment that it was this guy. Yeah, it was a shitty thing to do, especially if they scared the living daylights out of the owners, but isn’t that what the court system is for? To lock perpetrators up in prison…not to execute them on the street?

We’ve gone from a system of rules and laws to an allowed vigilante system with police being the lone arbiters of meting out justice. And that justice is apparently wild, wild west style.

This wasn’t some sort of revenge shooting, as this article from The Smoking Gun makes clear:

According to police, an officer responded Friday to a 911 call about a man who had assaulted a victim and was dodging cars in traffic. The cop followed the suspect into a nearby apartment, where the man allegedly struck the officer in the head, knocking him to the ground. During an ensuing struggle, patrolman Matt Kenny fatally shot the suspect.

So this wasn’t about what Anthony Robinson had done before, this was about him running from a cop into a apartment and then attacking the cop when the officer followed him inside. And if the officer had been hit on the head and was on the ground next to a violent suspect, then in my eyes that’s a justifiable shooting. If Robinson had not attacked officer Kenny, he would not have been shot.

10 WhatEVs  Mar 10, 2015 8:22:17am

re: #8 Great White Snark

I’m gonna guess he did not carry a gun in that home invasion and did not injure anyone. That’s great. I will also say that if anyone ever invaded my home and fled at the sight of my gun, got arrested, I’d be highly pissed off at mere probation.

Agreed. Completely.

I’d rather beat the crap out of anyone who invaded my home. I am not, in any way, advocating letting some schmuck off for home invasion. And our justice system is imperfect. Very imperfect at times. Further, it is easy to be really angry at how many assholes do get off when they shouldn’t, and at some level, I can understand the desire to have vigilante justice, especially if someone I knew was hurt or damaged. But we are either a country of laws or we are not.

My issue is that a kid (whether he was a bad kid, a wayward kid or an evil kid) was still shot dead without any kind of trial and that’s what I am against.

11 WhatEVs  Mar 10, 2015 8:36:22am

re: #9 Dark_Falcon

According to police, an officer responded Friday to a 911 call about a man who had assaulted a victim and was dodging cars in traffic. The cop followed the suspect into a nearby apartment, where the man allegedly struck the officer in the head, knocking him to the ground. During an ensuing struggle, patrolman Matt Kenny fatally shot the suspect.

Forgive me if I don’t believe what the police say. Unfortunately, there are too many instances of police saying everything was justified (Eric Gardner comes to mind) when, too often, it is not. I mean, really, a death sentence ordered and carried out by police, without any court or jury being involved, for selling loose cigarettes. Is that what you’re advocating?

There’s an article in an older Rolling Stone I am reading about Albuquerque PD and how many citizens died in the last 10 years. They are the first city who indicted two of their own for murder.

I am an older, white woman who never had problems with police. I never worried in my life about being shot. I never once thought of cops as anything but the Officer Friendly of my youth. But I don’t live a black person’s life concerning police in America.


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