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EPR-radar  Sep 9, 2016 • 4:56:35pm

One of the quotes in the Jacobs essay is very much on point:

To put the matter baldly, a person of religious conviction should not want to enter the marketplace of ideas but to shut it down, at least insofar as it presumes to determine matters that he believes have been determined by God and faith. The religious person should not seek an accommodation with liberalism; he should seek to rout it from the field, to extirpate it, root and branch.

I can’t see a way to avoid this essential conflict. Once a religious person has made articles of faith sacred and beyond question, and then insists that these beliefs govern (or even influence) society as a whole, the conflict is inescapable. The only thing that can vary from case to case is the intensity of the conflict.

mmmirele  Sep 9, 2016 • 4:59:49pm
Jacobs is a good example of someone who isn’t willing to take the obvious intellectual step - that classical orthodox, Nicene [a term referenced by Jacobs to assure Mohler of his orthodoxy], Christianity is not enough anymore to explain the world.

I don’t know that Nicene orthodoxy is the problem. While Southern Baptists pay lip service to the Nicene Creed, they don’t recite it in their churches and I don’t think there’s been a single Southern Baptist scholar who has ever done work (historical or otherwise) on the creeds.

This general ignorance has led to an issue right now involving male theologians who call themselves “complementarians” and who are teaching something called “The Eternal Subordination of the Son” or ESS. While it’s not classic Arianism, it IS sub-Arian because they believe Jesus is always subordinate to God the Father. These men then turn around and use this ESS doctrine to keep women in a second-place position. (As Jesus is subordinate to the Father, so women are subordinate to men.) During the summer this exploded and Mohler found himself in the very uncomfortable position of having to trying to stand in the middle of his friends, some of whom believe in ESS and some of whom think it’s rank heresy:

Personally, I could care less about what Southern Baptists say about ESS or the Nicene Creed—except that these people also are grasping for naked worldly power. As a woman, I have to keep an eye on these asshats trying to steal my rights in the name of Jesus and smack them down on a regular basis.

EPR-radar  Sep 9, 2016 • 5:06:54pm

re: #2 mmmirele

So the SBC is having a live dispute about a heresy that even I (an atheist) can see is blatant, in order to drum up further reasons women should be subordinate.

Too funny for words, except for the fact that these asshats have real power and want to oppress with it.

freetoken  Sep 9, 2016 • 11:27:33pm

re: #2 mmmirele

I don’t know that Nicene orthodoxy is the problem.

I didn’t mean to imply that it is. I only brought up “Nicene” because Jacobs did. Currently, and traditionally, the Nicene Creed is used to draw a boundary, to delimit what is Christian and what is not. And that is how Jacobs uses it in his interview with Mohler.

Romantic Heretic  Sep 10, 2016 • 7:54:16am

From what I’ve seen, in America “Christian intellectual” is close to being an oxymoron.

Perhaps that’s just because the not-intellectuals garner the most air time, clicks and inches.

mmmirele  Sep 10, 2016 • 8:34:19am

re: #4 freetoken

I didn’t mean to imply that it is. I only brought up “Nicene” because Jacobs did. Currently, and traditionally, the Nicene Creed is used to draw a boundary, to delimit what is Christian and what is not. And that is how Jacobs uses it in his interview with Mohler.

And the irony, as I’m sure you can see, is that Mohler is having to defend friends of his (some of who are associated with the seminary he runs) who teach this dogma of Eternal Subordination of the Son. All so they can keep us women in our places. *sends unprintable gesture in the direction of Louisville, KY* Take that, Al!

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