Kenneth: I am an Italian who lives in London but keeps in touch with his family in Rome, so you may hear me comment on both countries (and the Vatican - a few family members and friends are involved with various Church bodies). Anyway I am still waiting to hear why mr.Trout thinks that to say that he hates the Church is an insult. It may be a mistake - though I doubt it - but plenty of people hate the Church without being either morons, m****rf***ers or dimwits. So why is he offended?