re: #36 Kravmavolley

Ok…no….

Don’t know what this means. Sounds like corporate speak

I believe this my comment was perfectly clear. This discussion ultimately comes from what your core beliefs are relative to the issue.my post was to focus arguments that reach to the core of this issue.

How was posting a page on LFG about diaries on Dkos that you wouldn’t link to supposed to achieve this?

The comments and articles posted at Daily Kos were examples of what I see throughout the internet on commentary. The title of the page was not What I don’t Hear on DKos…. It was “What I Don’t Hear”. Because I STILL don’t hear people talking talking about the 3300+ rockets fired at Israeli cities and towns but I sure as shit hear a lot about how Israel shouldn’t kill civilians (of course, no one really has said how that can be avoided if they truly believe Israel has a right to self defense). By posting in what I thought was a more moderate forum, I thought that people might engage on a policy issue and not spew more of the same garbage which I see around the internet (and this part about LGF seems to be true - that there is far less “white noise” (again not quoting you.. just using a turn of a phrase) here.

But most people assign responsibility somewhat to Israel, not totally. So that kind of messes up this narrative of yours.

You know… maybe on this site it does but throughout the internet no most people don’t give this a fair shake, not by a long shot. What I see is a whole lot of analysis on Israeli Strikes and only cursory call-out regarding Hamas’ rocket fire and ZERO discussion of what Israel should have done to defend itself outside of giving into Hamas’ demands. So no.. it does not mess up any “narrative” of mine.

Then Hamas would ignore them. Seriously, you think that Hamas, upon being lectured by the international community to build schools, would dig their toes in the dirt and shamefacedly start building?

Yes that is exactly what I think.. Hamas would not ignore them. Hamas wants power and international legitimacy, hence Masha’als charm offensive in 2009 where Khaled Meshaal went to great lengths to impress upon the U.S. and the new administration along with the E.U. that Hamas were not a bunch of lunatic terrorists. Gaza right now is fully dependent on foreign aid and nations that actively support them (outside of Iran) generally don’t want their investments put to risk. IF Hamas’ leaders can profit, you can bet that they will do exactly that because really… when just what happened settles on and the people of Gaza look around, they are NOT going to be happy if Hamas goes right back to tunnelling and buying rockets.

This really isn’t true. The number of people who condone the rocket attacks is small. The number of people who point out that the rocket attacks are almost completely ineffectual, and that in responding to them Israel kills large numbers of Palestinian civilians, is not small. But that is not in the least bit the same thing as condoning the rocket attacks, nor is it putting all the blame on Israel.

Really now.. all over social media and other sites there is much praise of Hamas’ “resistance” (AGAIN NOT QUOTING YOU - just using the terms), And yes you are correct that they do not mention the rocket attacks by name and that is my point. What they need to do is define “resistance”. They simply don’t mention the rocket attacks and just sort of let those slide.

That the rocket attacks are ineffectual means absolutely nothing to me. Zero, Nada, Zilch. It is a ridiculous argument. Hamas fires thousands of rockets with murderous intent, they are not shooting these things off to hear them go “boom”, they are trying to wreck havoc on civil targets. The fact of the matter is that Israel spent a lot of money and time protecting it’s citizens against said attacks. Not Israel’s fault they give a crap about their civilians (something Hamas clearly does not do).

And by not mentioning it.. It is the same as supporting the rocket attacks because it makes an argument by only presenting one side.

Finally:

I hope that people committed to peace come to power once again in Israel, and that they come for the first time among the Palestinians

I agree. .as a long time supporter of the Israeli Center / Center Left I think it is time for people that want to give negotiations a chance. Hence my support for President Obama’s initiatives.

And as for the Israeli Right…. I am not supporter of theirs and I think they represent a dangerous trend, but If I had to choose between them and Hamas I would choose them. Thankfully I don’t have to make that choice. I can support the Israeli Center / Center Left.