Another Creationist Bill in Mississippi

Science • Views: 2,909

Possibly emboldened by the success of the stealth creationist bill signed into law in Louisiana by Gov. Bobby Jindal, Republican Rep. Gary Chism has introduced a bill to require an anti-evolution disclaimer in Mississippi textbooks: Mississippi’s Proposed Evolution Disclaimer.

The proposal, if enacted, would require the State Board of Education to include the 200-word disclaimer on the inside front cover of textbooks that include evolution topics.

“The word ‘theory’ has many meanings, including: systematically organized knowledge; abstract reasoning; a speculative idea or plan; or a systematic statement of principles,” the opening paragraph of the bill states. “Scientific theories are based on both observations of the natural world and assumptions about the natural world. They are always subject to change in view of new and confirmed observations.”

“This textbook discusses evolution, a controversial theory some scientists present as a scientific explanation for the origin of living things. No one was present when life first appeared on earth. Therefore, any statement about life’s origins should be considered a theory,” the proposal continues.

“Evolution refers to the unproven belief that random, undirected forces produced living things. There are many topics with unanswered questions about the origin of life which are not mentioned in your textbook, including: the sudden appearance of the major groups of animals in the fossil record (known as the Cambrian Explosion); the lack of new major groups of other living things appearing in the fossil record; the lack of transitional forms of major groups of plants and animals in the fossil record; and the complete and complex set of instructions for building a living body possessed by all living things.”

The textbook disclaimer would end with the following advice: “Study hard and keep an open mind.”

Notice how many creationist tropes appear in Chism’s disclaimer:

* random, undirected forces
* the “Cambrian Explosion”
* the “lack of transitional forms”
* a garbled version of “irreducible complexity”

It’s a potpourri of creationist craziness.

But perhaps worst of all, again we see the egregious misuse of the word “theory” by creationists, who don’t understand (and/or deliberately distort) its scientific definition and use it as a synonym for “wild guess.” Here’s an interesting little site devoted entirely to debunking this hoary old dodge: Evolution is Not Just a Theory.

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691 comments
1 Ben Hur  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 5:32:44pm

Gird your loins.

2 Guanxi88  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 5:33:39pm

So they print the disclaimer. Who could read it? - Sorry, an easy and cheap shot, I know.

3 [deleted]  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 5:33:42pm
4 unreconstructed rebel  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 5:34:13pm

I consider myself a devout christian, but ... when is this nonsense gonna stop? What is it with state legislatures?

5 jcm  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 5:35:31pm

I have a theory; Gary Chism is a scientific ignoramus.

6 Jetpilot1101  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 5:35:45pm

This is getting ridiculous. Belief in a "creator" and belief in evolution are perfectly compatible. Why can't Christians understand this?

Disclaimer: evolution believing evangelical Christian

7 Guanxi88  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 5:35:58pm

Look, ain't nobody likely to give up on this madness anytime soon. It's just the way of the world, I fear. Since education has become politicized, it is unavoidable.

8 unreconstructed rebel  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 5:36:15pm

re: #5 jcm

I have a theory; Gary Chism is a scientific ignoramus.

Theory? How much proof do you need?

9 albusteve  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 5:36:18pm

whorey old dodge

10 [deleted]  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 5:36:57pm
11 maddogg  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 5:37:04pm

So, are all the creationists named Bill?

12 Jetpilot1101  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 5:37:42pm

re: #11 maddogg

So, are all the creationists named Bill?

Nope, only the really dumb ones.

13 jcm  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 5:37:49pm

re: #8 unreconstructed rebel

Theory? How much proof do you need?

Unprovable I fear, it would require dissection of the subjects brain, since the subject lacks a brain we'll never know for sure.

14 Guanxi88  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 5:38:05pm

re: #12 Jetpilot1101

Nope, only the really dumb ones.

Perhaps it's some form of adaptation?

15 Bloodnok  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 5:38:14pm

Disclaimer leads to paragraph.
Paragraph leads to chapter.
Chapter leads to book.
Book leads to lesson.
Lesson leads to course.

See how easy it is?

16 [deleted]  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 5:38:17pm
17 unreconstructed rebel  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 5:38:51pm

Ok, I really do need to go do the dishes.

Hold fast.

18 quickjustice  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 5:39:13pm

They're just defending G-d and Jesus from those terrible scientists who want to turn our children into atheists! I have a feeling that the Lord and Jesus can take care of themselves! ;-)

19 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 5:39:40pm

Once again they are wasting tax payer's money. This has already been tried and ruled unconstitutional....
Georgia Evolution Stickers Ordered Removed

On Thursday, Miller — along with fellow teachers and scientists — cheered a federal judge's ruling that ordered the Cobb County school board to immediately remove the stickers and never again hand them out in any form.
....
A group of parents and the American Civil Liberties Union (news - web sites) challenged the stickers in court, arguing they violate the Constitution's separation of church and state.

Jeffrey Selman, whose son was a second-grader in Cobb County schools at the time, called Thursday's ruling a "shot across the bow" of religious fundamentalists he says are attempting to introduce their beliefs in the classroom.

With all the economic trouble going on in this country why are Republicans so eager to waste money on lost lawsuits?

20 jcm  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 5:39:43pm

Why are we even debating this? When it's been absolutely been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt.

21 [deleted]  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 5:40:25pm
22 experiencedtraveller  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 5:40:40pm

The dinosaurs drowned when the levies, long neglected by the Bush Administration, broke.

23 dedalus  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 5:40:53pm

They could start the semester with the question of "what is a scientific theory" and the ways that various ideas about the creation of species either meet the requirements for scientific theory or don't.

All ideas could be considered and the ones that met the threshold could be discussed during the remaining days of the semester.

24 solomonpanting  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 5:40:58pm
The textbook disclaimer would end with the following advice: “Study hard and keep an open mind.”

And look for clues along The Chism Trail.

25 Guanxi88  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 5:41:02pm

re: #22 experiencedtraveller

The dinosaurs drowned when the levies, long neglected by the Bush Administration, broke.

I heard they were dynamited.

26 maddogg  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 5:41:45pm

re: #21 taxfreekiller

McCain has been meeting with Obama people on how to get things done.

He attended a dinner for he and VP Biden and that was where Obama went rather than the Vet deal.

like that is where we are at now

Well, he kicked Sarah under the bus pretty quickly, I suppose we're next.

27 Charles Johnson  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 5:42:12pm

Charles! What's wrong with you! You're dividing conservatives! You're an atheist! Why do you hate Christians! You're obsessed! Who cares about this! This is why I never visit LGF any more!

Did I miss anything? Just trying to get it all out of the way early.

28 Jetpilot1101  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 5:42:17pm

re: #22 experiencedtraveller

The dinosaurs drowned when the levies, long neglected by the Bush Administration, broke.

Actually, you are mistaken. Only the black dinosaurs died. The white ones lived for another couple million years before an asteroid took them out.

29 experiencedtraveller  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 5:43:03pm

re: #25 Guanxi88

I heard they were dynamited.

Probably by the same crew that wired 7 World Trade Center.

30 jcm  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 5:43:10pm

re: #27 Charles

Charles! What's wrong with you! You're dividing conservatives! You're an atheist! Why do you hate Christians! You're obsessed! Who cares about this! This is why I never visit LGF any more!
.

Carefull, keep that up and you'll get banned!
;-P

31 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 5:43:58pm

NCSE files amicus brief on the history of evolution "warning labels"

In January 2005 Judge Clarence Cooper of the Northern District of Georgia ruled that these warning labels were unconstitutional because they had an impermissable religious effect, violating the Lemon test.

32 [deleted]  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 5:44:07pm
33 [deleted]  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 5:44:21pm
34 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 5:45:06pm

re: #30 jcm

Ha!

35 solomonpanting  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 5:45:26pm

re: #27 Charles

Charles! What's wrong with you! You're dividing conservatives! You're an atheist! Why do you hate Christians! You're obsessed! Who cares about this! This is why I never visit LGF any more!

Did I miss anything? Just trying to get it all out of the way early.


Boring!

36 karmic_inquisitor  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 5:45:31pm
any statement about life’s origins should be considered a theory

New Mississippi textbook : Reproduction, Birds and Bees - a theory.

37 notutopia  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 5:45:53pm
tsrif

?

re: #33 taxfreekiller

38 rawmuse  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 5:46:00pm

I have been watching this series, it is very informative. I am about 5 hours in.

39 MandyManners  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 5:46:06pm
40 gman  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 5:46:23pm

From the article:

And the notion that if no one witnessed an event, any and all claims about the event are equally valid is breathtakingly idiotic. I doubt Mr. Chism would apply the same "reasoning" to, say, forensic medicine. We convict people and even put them to death for crimes committed with no eyewitnesses. Let's imagine a hypothetical crime and apply Chism's "logic."

A man is arrested for the rape and murder of a woman. His semen is found inside her body, his fingerprints are found on the murder weapon. But no one else was present to see him do it. Therefore, according to Chism's argument, any statement made about the crime should be considered a theory and be given equal time and equal presumed validity. Pure idiocy.

41 CynicalConservative  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 5:46:28pm

re: #27 Charles

Charles! What's wrong with you! You're dividing conservatives! You're an atheist! Why do you hate Christians! You're obsessed! Who cares about this! This is why I never visit LGF any more!

Did I miss anything? Just trying to get it all out of the way early.

how about - Can a day go by without an evo/ID thread.

//

42 Basho  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 5:46:36pm

Err... these Republicans are really left-wingers posing as Republicans in order for Republicans to never win an election ever again!
/

43 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 5:46:42pm

re: #27 Charles

Charles! What's wrong with you! You're dividing conservatives! You're an atheist! Why do you hate Christians! You're obsessed! Who cares about this! This is why I never visit LGF any more!

Did I miss anything? Just trying to get it all out of the way early.

Ummmm, Radical Islam is the real threat, not ID!

44 jcm  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 5:46:52pm

re: #34 Killgore Trout

Ha!

We should introduce those two to Pat Condell.

45 [deleted]  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 5:47:04pm
46 Bloodnok  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 5:47:53pm

There's no disclaimer on the turtle stack.

47 jcm  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 5:47:59pm

re: #43 FurryOldGuyJeans

Ummmm, Radical Islam is the real threat, not ID!

We should align with VB and other like them to stem the threat!
/

48 MandyManners  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 5:48:25pm

Why did Chism do this?

49 jcm  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 5:48:33pm

re: #46 Bloodnok

There's no disclaimer on the turtle stack.

There is on the bottom turtle, and it's turtles all the way down.

50 Noam Sayin'  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 5:49:04pm

OT, buy a Flying Pig Moment:

ACLU to sue Twin Cities charter school that caters to Muslims


The suit was filed in U.S. District Court in Minneapolis against Tarek ibn Ziyad Academy, known as TIZA, and the Minnesota Department of Education, which the ACLU says is at fault for failing to uncover and stop the alleged transgressions. The suit names the department and Alice Seagren, the state education commissioner, as co-defendants.
51 notutopia  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 5:49:10pm

re: #39 MandyManners

Chism's legislative page.

New Hope High School.... I knew it! He went to Hopey Changy HS

He's also a life insurance underwriter?
They love those "act of God" disclaimers...

52 jcm  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 5:49:15pm

re: #48 MandyManners

Why did Chism do this?

Why does a dog lick it's balls?

53 Truck Monkey  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 5:49:30pm

re: #48 MandyManners

Why did Chism do this?

To create a chasm?

54 Bloodnok  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 5:50:08pm

re: #49 jcm

There is on the bottom turtle, and it's turtles all the way down.

Yeah. It says "If you're reading this don't look up. Trust me."

55 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 5:50:11pm

re: #46 Bloodnok

There's no disclaimer on the turtle stack.

or the Flying Spaghetti Monster™

These IDers are as persistent as Socialists; keep trying until it finally works, forget the failures.

56 David IV of Georgia  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 5:50:44pm

This fuss by creationists will backfire.

Some of the children will have teachers who make it a point to counter any disclaimer found in the textbook.

Some of the children will go on to universities where this intelligent design theory is taught to be the myths of ignorant backwoods folk.

Some will realize that whether they agree with ID or not, that their education was manipulated in an underhanded and deceitful way, and resent it.

57 NYCHardhat  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 5:50:58pm

Schism

58 Truck Monkey  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 5:51:01pm

re: #52 jcm

Why does a dog lick it's balls?

Because he can? I know if I could do it I would.... oh never mind.

59 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 5:51:02pm

re: #48 MandyManners

Why did Chism do this?

Terminal stupidity?

60 [deleted]  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 5:51:21pm
61 [deleted]  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 5:51:35pm
62 karmic_inquisitor  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 5:51:42pm

re: #16 buzzsawmonkey

It appears that "tautology" should be re-spelled as "taughtology."

And any Literature class that has any book with the word "evolution" in it will be called "Simian Semiology"

63 [deleted]  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 5:52:26pm
64 notutopia  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 5:52:27pm

re: #61 Crux Australis

Another creationism thread?

Yawn!

Charles, don't forget to add this one to your list too.

65 reine.de.tout  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 5:52:45pm

re: #3 buzzsawmonkey

If "no one was present when life first appeared on earth," as the disclaimer says, aren't they seriously dissing the Biblical story of creation?

Everything these people do to ensure that children avoid knowledge that would enable them to use their God-given intelligence to learn about and question the world around them can be considered as dissing God.

66 [deleted]  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 5:52:54pm
67 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 5:53:18pm

re: #27 Charles

This is why I never visit LGF any more!

*chuckle* ... probably posted by someone who "wasn't here" to do it

68 karmic_inquisitor  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 5:53:23pm

re: #50 Noam Sayin'

OT, buy a Flying Pig Moment:

ACLU to sue Twin Cities charter school that caters to Muslims

Now that Bush is gone they feel safe to follow their principles. Which means they aren't really principles. The ACLU could have helped fight dhimmitude over the last 7 years.

69 Charles Johnson  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 5:53:30pm

I forgot "Yawn!"

70 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 5:54:17pm

re: #66 buzzsawmonkey

Remember, everyone: G-d created evolution. And He sent the platypus the bill.

That is such a bad joke I had a hard time deciding just which way to ding. Ooops, my finger slipped! ;)

71 reine.de.tout  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 5:54:21pm

re: #52 jcm

Why does a dog lick it's balls?

"its". Its balls. Not "it's" balls.

72 WhiteRasta  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 5:54:35pm

re: #50 Noam Sayin'

Bah! Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

Any bets this will get dropped at the first sign of a fatwa or a threat? Or the first screams of "racism"?

Bet anyone here a cup of cold decaffeinated coffee...

73 MandyManners  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 5:54:43pm

re: #61 Crux Australis

Another creationism thread?

Yawn!

Sometimes it's better to be thought stupid than to open one's mouth and prove it.

74 tommy  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 5:55:08pm

C'mon, guys. The whole disclaimer can be summed up as: Evolution is a theory. . . . Keep an open mind, think critically, study hard.

What in the world is troubling about that?

By the same token, I would tell anyone in a Bible study class to consider that there many translations and interpretations, including those of the agnostic and atheist. The student should study and reach his own conclusions.

All in all, the clamor about the disclaimer is puzzling. To paraphrase loosely from "Acts", if the message (evolution) is not correct, then it should be rejected; if the message is correct, all the scrutiny in the world will not harm it, and indeed will only make it more widely accepted.

75 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 5:55:16pm

re: #71 reine.de.tout

"its". Its balls. Not "it's" balls.

You lick a dog's balls?!? ;)

76 unclassifiable  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 5:55:25pm

Anyone with half a brain could see that Muammar Gadafi now has an evolutionary adaptation to enable him to broker peace talks in the Afghan Mountains.

THE PROOF IS RIGHT IN FRONT OF YOU!

77 reine.de.tout  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 5:55:46pm
Therefore, any statement about life’s origins should be considered a theory,” the proposal continues.

So, the Bible is a "theory" now?

78 Charles Johnson  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 5:56:04pm

They're heeere.

79 MandyManners  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 5:56:19pm

re: #77 reine.de.tout

So, the Bible is a "theory" now?

That got to me.

80 reine.de.tout  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 5:56:24pm

re: #75 FurryOldGuyJeans

You lick a dog's balls?!? ;)

You are so bad.

81 Bloodnok  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 5:56:27pm

re: #74 tommy

Run.

82 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 5:56:36pm

re: #78 Charles

They're heeere.

Ummm, whom? The vermin squad?

83 notutopia  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 5:56:42pm

re: #71 reine.de.tout

"its". Its balls. Not "it's" balls.


Why does a dog lick his two balls?
Solved!
Unless, it's a one balled dog.

84 solomonpanting  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 5:56:55pm
Is it a coincidence that Gary Chism sounds close to Warren Chisum, the equally stupid Texas state legislator who sent a memo to his colleagues suggesting that they learn about evolution by going to fixedearth.com, a geocentrist and creationist site that claims that evolution is a Jewish conspiracy to destroy Christ?

But some say Jews came from apes and monkeys. Going apesh*t over evolution?

85 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 5:57:18pm

re: #80 reine.de.tout

You are so bad.

You hadn't noticed this previously? ;)

86 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 5:57:18pm

re: #56 David IV of Georgia

Hopefully, it will backfire but not only on creationists. All of these unconstitutional bills are proposed by Republicans. I'd be surprised if you could find any Dems pushing this crap. It's going to have repercussions.

87 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 5:58:50pm

re: #74 tommy

See my link at #31. It has already been ruled unconstitutional.

88 Crux Australis  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 5:58:54pm

re: #73 MandyManners

Sometimes it's better to be thought stupid than to open one's mouth and prove it.

The evolution/creationism debate is nowhere as heated in Australia as it is in the US.

Maybe I'll keep my nose out of these threads in future. Sorry.

89 Fat Jolly Penguin  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 5:58:55pm

re: #84 solomonpanting

fixedearth.com

Wow. Some serious crazy at that site. Shall I link it?

90 jcm  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 5:59:13pm

re: #71 reine.de.tout

"its". Its balls. Not "it's" balls.

Thank you, I suffer from apostrophe dyslexia among other common grammar aliments.

91 albusteve  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 5:59:22pm

re: #86 Killgore Trout

Hopefully, it will backfire but not only on creationists. All of these unconstitutional bills are proposed by Republicans. I'd be surprised if you could find any Dems pushing this crap. It's going to have repercussions.

it already has with me...I'm just one guy but my mission is certainly evolving....this is one thing I get real pissy about

92 notutopia  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 5:59:24pm

re: #78 Charles

They're heeere.

Hello...They're heeere.

93 solomonpanting  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:00:06pm

re: #89 Fat Jolly Penguin

Wow. Some serious crazy at that site. Shall I link it?

Ask Geert Wilders.

94 MandyManners  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:00:07pm

re: #88 Crux Australis

The evolution/creationism debate is nowhere as heated in Australia as it is in the US.

Maybe I'll keep my nose out of these threads in future. Sorry.

To me, it's the same thing as telling a host IRL that his furniture sucks and his carpet looks like dog poop.

95 Guanxi88  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:00:08pm

I always thought that the idea of conservatives of any stripe dismissing evolutionary science on the theological grounds was at least as bad as any sort of post-modern clap-trap the deconstructionist left ever trotted out.

Just for fun, read or listen to Burroughs' "The Purple Better One" a hilarious bit all around:

[Link: niqnaq.wordpress.com...]

96 Charles Johnson  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:00:09pm

re: #84 solomonpanting

The website recommended by Texas legislator Warren Chisum:

[Link: fixedearth.com...]

Not just crazy. Bat guano crazy.

97 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:00:16pm

re: #56 David IV of Georgia

... and resent it.

True. Things like this have a way of turning kids against the capital-R Religion which they were brought up in, and worse, against religion in general ... and even faith itself.

These capital-C (ie, politicized) Creationists are duct-taping a shotgun around the foot of their collective Religion.

This is not the substance of cultivating insight and faith.

98 quickjustice  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:00:24pm

The guy is an insurance agent and a Southern Baptist. They're a conservative, sensible group. Why the sudden craziness about legislating creationism? Insurance uses actuarial science to underwrite insurance policies. Actuarial science draws upon statistical patterns of events to derive calculations of risk for insurance underwriting purposes.

To the uneducated, those events may seem random. To an actuary, statistical patterns emerge which then enable calculations of risk and insurance underwriting. Evolutionary science is no different in this respect: scientists study seemingly random or unrelated events to derive meaningful patterns that enable scientific hypotheses, and even theories such as evolution.

Does this guy actually think that G-d is an actuary or a scientist?

99 maddogg  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:00:39pm

re: #52 jcm

Why does a dog lick it's balls?

Because we can! :)

100 Cato the Elder  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:00:46pm

"Gary Chism"?

His middle initial wouldn't be an "s", would it?

101 Fat Jolly Penguin  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:00:50pm

Oh, never mind, Charles did it for me.

102 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:01:26pm

re: #88 Crux Australis

The evolution/creationism debate is nowhere as heated in Australia as it is in the US.

Maybe I'll keep my nose out of these threads in future. Sorry.

If you have something substantive to say, then join in by all means. If you just want to snark it out, then bypassing might be the thing to do.

103 Guanxi88  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:01:30pm

re: #96 Charles

The website recommended by Texas legislator Warren Chisum:

[Link: fixedearth.com...]

Not just crazy. Bat guano crazy.

It's a spoof, right? A honey-trap for evo-troofers? A false-flag op by Darwinists?

104 jcm  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:01:31pm

re: #84 solomonpanting

But some say Jews came from apes and monkeys. Going apesh*t over evolution?

jeesh, even the web design sucks more than a black hole.

105 MandyManners  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:01:32pm

re: #89 Fat Jolly Penguin

Wow. Some serious crazy at that site. Shall I link it?

Read all about the Copernican and Darwinian Myths

I kid you not.

106 itellu3times  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:01:41pm

well ya know, the linked site isn't really accurate, a theory is not necessarily "a well-substantiated, well-supported, well-documented explanation for our observations", even within science. there *are* all sorts of poorly supported, poorly documented, poorly stated "theories" even in science. there are invalid theories. there are theories that are almost right. there are theories that are goofy, but the best we have. like, quantum physics. I'd say evolution is about on a par with quantum physics, in its utility and validity. far from perfect, but also the farthest thing from ignorance that humankind has yet managed to assemble.

107 jcm  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:02:08pm

re: #96 Charles

The website recommended by Texas legislator Warren Chisum:

[Link: fixedearth.com...]

Not just crazy. Bat guano crazy.

Please offer them some web design help....
////////

108 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:02:21pm

re: #91 albusteve

ID and other "conservative" social issues are making me much less interested in Republicans. I sat out this past election becuase I was uncomfortable with Palin and there's a good chance I'll vote Dem in 2012.

109 albusteve  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:02:27pm

re: #102 FurryOldGuyJeans

If you have something substantive to say, then join in by all means. If you just want to snark it out, then bypassing might be the thing to do.

you're not snark proof yet?.....

110 jaunte  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:02:45pm

re: #96 Charles

There it is, the Big Lie of Creationism and the Discovery Institute:
"an anti-Bible religious plan disguised as "science"

111 solomonpanting  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:03:35pm

re: #105 MandyManners

Read all about the Copernican and Darwinian Myths

I kid you not.

Copernicus? Let me check my solar status.

112 logboy  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:03:41pm

I can't stand Jon Stewart since the election, but he makes a good point in this video. A lot of the 0's speech rhetoric was ripped off from Bush.

[Link: www.thedailyshow.com...]

113 [deleted]  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:03:51pm
114 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:04:01pm

re: #96 Charles

The Earth is not rotating...nor is it going around the sun.

The universe is not one ten trillionth the size we are told.

Today’s cosmology fulfills an anti-Bible religious plan disguised as "science".

The whole scheme from Copernicanism to Big Bangism is a factless lie.

Wow, it reads like Timecube

115 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:04:21pm

re: #96 Charles

The website recommended by Texas legislator Warren Chisum:

[Link: fixedearth.com...]

Not just crazy. Bat guano crazy.

They use a product of science, the levitating globe, as a lure to disprove science. Yow!

116 albusteve  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:04:21pm

re: #108 Killgore Trout

ID and other "conservative" social issues are making me much less interested in Republicans. I sat out this past election becuase I was uncomfortable with Palin and there's a good chance I'll vote Dem in 2012.

this is gonna be a ball breaker for some of us...I'm not a Republican I just typically vote that way...the Party is going to hell!....haha...or is it just evolving that direction?

117 Fat Jolly Penguin  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:04:26pm

re: #105 MandyManners

Read all about the Copernican and Darwinian Myths

I kid you not.

Precisely what I meant. But wait, there's more!

"An electromagnet and computerized sensor hidden in its display stand cause the Earth to levitate motionlessly in the air."

Could God have engineered something like that for the real Earth?

The Bible and all real evidence confirms that this is precisely what He did, and indeed:

The Earth is not rotating...nor is it going around the sun.

The universe is not one ten trillionth the size we are told.

Today’s cosmology fulfills an anti-Bible religious plan disguised as "science".

The whole scheme from Copernicanism to Big Bangism is a factless lie.

Those lies have planted the Truth-killing virus of evolutionism in every aspect of man’s "knowledge" about the Universe, the Earth, and Himself.

Take your time.

Check it all out.

Decide for yourself.

But my personal favorite has to be "Kabbala-based Big Bangism." That really should rotate.

118 USBeast  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:04:44pm

re: #60 buzzsawmonkey

Gonna dis evolution
Do it up in style
Read all about it in the new Chism trial
Come a ti yi yippee yippee i yippee ay
Come a ti yi yippee yippee ay

--to the tune of "Chisolm Trail"

Ah the age old controversy: Is it "Ti yi yippee..." or "Ki yi yippee..."?

119 logboy  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:04:48pm

re: #52 jcm

Why does a dog lick it's balls?

Why do dogs lick themselves?

Because they can't make a fist with their paw. ;)

120 Guanxi88  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:05:24pm

re: #114 Killgore Trout

Wow, it reads like Timecube

Okay, since we're doubling down on crazy stakes, howsabout hollow earth, expanding, yet?

[Link: www.hollowearththeory.com...]

121 [deleted]  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:05:24pm
122 notutopia  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:06:15pm

Wow.
This site is whacko...
[Link: fixedearth.com...]
Levitating Globe

"An electromagnet and computerized sensor hidden in its display stand cause the Earth to levitate motionlessly in the air."

Could God have engineered something like that for the real Earth?

The Bible and all real evidence confirms that this is precisely what He did, and indeed:

The Earth is not rotating...nor is it going around the sun.


Heliocentric? Relativity...

123 quickjustice  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:06:51pm

Cue "Twilight Zone" music. The creationists and ID guys are citing Scripture for their own nefarious purposes: manipulating the feeble-minded into thinking that the Bible is somehow threatened.

Believe me, evolution (and actuarial science for that matter) don't threaten the Bible.

124 jcm  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:06:52pm

re: #119 logboy

Why do dogs lick themselves?

Because they can't make a fist with their paw. ;)

Showing off to the neutered dog next door......

125 Cato the Elder  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:06:57pm

re: #96 Charles

The website recommended by Texas legislator Warren Chisum:

[Link: fixedearth.com...]

Not just crazy. Bat guano crazy.

You can tell a lot about a website's originator and his mental processes by the use of crazy design. The more different fonts, highlighting, typeface colors, etc., the less rational it will be. Goes just as much for this guy as it does for someone like Pam G.

These motionless earth people would get along just fine under Islam, where the sun sinks into a pool of mud and flies have poison on one wing, the antidote on the other.

126 wahabicorridor  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:07:01pm

OT OT OT ALERT

127 solomonpanting  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:07:09pm
So, welcome! Think of this as a "crash course" for people everywhere of all ages who are ready to test and see how evolutionary mythology has deceived the world...and what it will mean to every living person when that deception is exposed.


Sincerely,


(Marshall Hall, BS cum laude, MA + 2 years:...Advanced International Studies Ph.D. Program)

The only truthful part is the BS.

128 experiencedtraveller  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:07:43pm

re: #60 buzzsawmonkey


Come a ti yi yippee yippee i yippee ay
Come a ti yi yippee yippee ay

How about some Ghost Riders in the Sky? Yippee i o...

129 MandyManners  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:07:47pm

Do those people believe the Moon landing was a fake?

130 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:07:47pm

re: #109 albusteve

you're not snark proof yet?.....

Charles has posted multiple times he will post what he wants to post; no amount of whining, blubbering, or displays of disinterest will dissuade him.

Usually amidst my snark there are relevant tidbits relating to the topic at hand. Some people just haven't that out.

131 jcm  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:08:00pm

re: #122 notutopia

Wow.
This site is whacko...
[Link: fixedearth.com...]
Levitating Globe

"An electromagnet and computerized sensor hidden in its display stand cause the Earth to levitate motionlessly in the air."

Could God have engineered something like that for the real Earth?

The Bible and all real evidence confirms that this is precisely what He did, and indeed:

The Earth is not rotating...nor is it going around the sun.

Heliocentric? Relativity...

All the space missions by extension must be fake.....

132 David IV of Georgia  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:08:35pm

re: #96 Charles

The website recommended by Texas legislator Warren Chisum:

[Link: fixedearth.com...]

Not just crazy. Bat guano crazy.

Why is it that all the really crazy sites think that they have to put every bit of text in a new size and color and then hypertext (i.e. link to another webpage) every other word to some scientific paper written by some "PhD." in Uruguay? I think this site could really benefit by adding lots of flash animation.

133 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:08:44pm

re: #106 itellu3times

Quantum physics is pretty accurate. The chips in the computer you are typing on depend on quantum physics being correct.
You are correct in saying that not all scientific theories are absolute. Newtonian physics has holes which are explained by relativity. Relativity has holes explained by quantum physics. The theory of evolution are about as solid as the theory of gravity (maybe even better). Neither are perfect but both are solid.

134 solomonpanting  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:09:00pm

re: #129 MandyManners

Do those people believe the Moon landing was a fake?

What makes you think they believe the moon is real?

135 reine.de.tout  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:09:08pm

re: #90 jcm

Thank you, I suffer from apostrophe dyslexia among other common grammar aliments.

many do.
It drives me crazy, and, well, your comment just put me over the edge LOL!

136 WhiteRasta  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:09:10pm

Bat guano crazy.... I love that phrase.

So fitting.

137 albusteve  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:09:22pm

re: #130 FurryOldGuyJeans

Charles has posted multiple times he will post what he wants to post; no amount of whining, blubbering, or displays of disinterest will dissuade him.

Usually amidst my snark there are relevant tidbits relating to the topic at hand. Some people just haven't that out.

I dont let it bother me...snark is snark

138 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:09:47pm

re: #120 Guanxi88

Russian scientists are really big into that one.

139 jcm  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:10:01pm

re: #135 reine.de.tout

many do.
It drives me crazy, and, well, your comment just put me over the edge LOL!

Feel free to take your frustration on me, I don't mind the reminders.

140 quickjustice  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:10:26pm

re: #108 Killgore Trout

Thanks for "sharing" that with us. Governor Palin can shoot a moose, field dress it, cook it, and serve it to her family. Any woman who can do that has my respect.

141 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:10:29pm

I wonder if these people believe the planets are really stuck onto invisible crystal spheres and all the other geocentric nonsense from millennia past.

142 Bloodnok  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:10:55pm

re: #139 jcm

Feel free to take your frustration on me, I don't mind the reminders.

I would have given you a dollar if you had said "reminder's".

143 logboy  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:11:04pm

re: #124 jcm

Showing off to the neutered dog next door......

We will all be neutered under Obama. All procreation must be approved by "the one". There will also be a 30% fornication tax on individuals making more than $1 a year, not living off welfare.

144 [deleted]  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:11:07pm
145 Digital Display  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:11:12pm

re: #96 Charles

The website recommended by Texas legislator Warren Chisum:

[Link: fixedearth.com...]

Not just crazy. Bat guano crazy.

What a bat shit crazy website..
Charles: What..If I may ask, Is your favorite science web site? You know mine..I shamelessly post scientists that have integrity and believe in pure science to explain the universe..Not myths

146 wahabicorridor  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:11:25pm

SORRY - THIS IS A SERIOUS RUMOR ALERT - UNCONFIRMED BY SECONDARY SOURCES (but my record has been good so far)

We're starting to get calls from clients in NY that Caroline Kennedy has withdrawn or will be withdrawing her bid for the Senate. The backstory rumor is that Patterson called and told her she would not be selected. The rumor continues that Patterson's selection will be a woman (which basically kneecaps Cuomo) - but everyone is scrambling to figure out who.

147 [deleted]  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:11:28pm
148 karmic_inquisitor  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:11:30pm

So is the Scientology explanation of the Origin of Life now a theory?

Does that make a DC10 a theory?

149 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:11:36pm

re: #131 jcm

All the space missions by extension must be fake.....

Which makes modern communications fake since there are no real orbiting satellites.

/ I'm getting a migraine dumbing down this far.

150 reine.de.tout  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:11:40pm

re: #139 jcm

Feel free to take your frustration on me, I don't mind the reminders.

Well, thank you!
Actually, I'm suffering the after-effects of yesterday.

151 Charles Johnson  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:11:42pm

re: #125 Cato the Elder

You can tell a lot about a website's originator and his mental processes by the use of crazy design.

Truer words were never spoken.

152 logboy  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:11:50pm

re: #129 MandyManners

Do those people believe the Moon landing was a fake?

/Come on, we all know Spielberg filmed that.

153 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:11:53pm

re: #140 quickjustice

Governor Palin can shoot a moose, field dress it, cook it, and serve it to her family. Any woman who can do that has my respect.


Those are nice qualities but they are hardly what I look for in a president. Those qualifications don't even make my top 10.

154 reine.de.tout  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:12:03pm

re: #142 Bloodnok

I would have given you a dollar if you had said "reminder's".

ROFL!
That would REALLY have sent me over the edge!

155 [deleted]  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:12:19pm
156 albusteve  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:12:30pm

re: #146 wahabicorridor

SORRY - THIS IS A SERIOUS RUMOR ALERT - UNCONFIRMED BY SECONDARY SOURCES (but my record has been good so far)

We're starting to get calls from clients in NY that Caroline Kennedy has withdrawn or will be withdrawing her bid for the Senate. The backstory rumor is that Patterson called and told her she would not be selected. The rumor continues that Patterson's selection will be a woman (which basically kneecaps Cuomo) - but everyone is scrambling to figure out who.

it's been up at Drudge for quite awhile now...

157 karmic_inquisitor  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:12:35pm

re: #146 wahabicorridor

SORRY - THIS IS A SERIOUS RUMOR ALERT - UNCONFIRMED BY SECONDARY SOURCES (but my record has been good so far)

We're starting to get calls from clients in NY that Caroline Kennedy has withdrawn or will be withdrawing her bid for the Senate. The backstory rumor is that Patterson called and told her she would not be selected. The rumor continues that Patterson's selection will be a woman (which basically kneecaps Cuomo) - but everyone is scrambling to figure out who.

Wife.

158 reine.de.tout  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:12:42pm

damn rooster on a TV ad just now - I thought I was back watching gazacam.

159 logboy  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:12:51pm

re: #146 wahabicorridor

Already on Fox. She pulled out for "personal reasons".

160 Guanxi88  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:12:54pm

re: #129 MandyManners

Do those people believe the Moon landing was a fake?

re: #129 MandyManners

Do those people believe the Moon landing was a fake?

No, they think we did, and that the moon is an alien artifact

161 Bloodnok  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:13:19pm

re: #154 reine.de.tout

ROFL!
That would REALLY have sent me over the edge!

Glad I could make you laugh. AND I get to keep the dollar.

162 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:13:31pm

re: #137 albusteve

I dont let it bother me...snark is snark

Neither does it bother me, but I prefer substantive conversation along with the snark, especially if that is what Our Lizard Overlord has REPEATEDLY requested.

163 Guanxi88  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:13:32pm

re: #138 Killgore Trout

Russian scientists are really big into that one.

Cheap vodka, and lead in the soil and water.

164 [deleted]  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:13:41pm
165 slartybartfast  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:13:50pm

Well, this happens to be my favorite theory:

It has widely been accepted as fact that this is the one and only true religion, just as the Flying Spaghetti Monster is the true Creator and Overseer. The Flying Spaghetti Monster is not a jealous deity, He doesn't punish the worship of other, false gods, but He really wishes you got some sense and worshiped Him, so you can spend eternity in Heaven, near the Stripper Factory and the Beer Volcano.

"I think we can all look forward to the time when these three theories are given equal time in our science classrooms across the country, and eventually the world; One third time for Intelligent Design, one third time for Flying Spaghetti Monsterism, and one third time for logical conjecture based on overwhelming observable evidence."

166 ArmyWife  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:14:16pm

wait, wait, wait. I don't agree with creationists, but I can look at their views and understand how they get there(misguided as they may be). But this?

The Earth is not rotating...nor is it going around the sun.

Didn't Galileo solve that little mystery for us in the 1600s?

167 quickjustice  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:14:32pm

re: #146 wahabicorridor

Caroline Kennedy having withdrawn, the top candidate for Hillary Clinton's U.S. Senate seat is upstate Democrat Congresswoman Kirsten Gillebrand, who has Schumer's backing.

168 Fat Jolly Penguin  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:14:44pm

re: #129 MandyManners

Do those people believe the Moon landing was a fake?

Maybe. A Google search for "moon landing" "marshall hall" turns up this jewel:

The part on phony space travel--and the moon specifically--is almost certainly
correct, and a very, very big conspiracy certifier, if proven. But, at this stage, something more in the way of hard proof is needed to certify the conspiracy which, by definition, is deception promoted by a cabal of conspirators. And we now have all the evidence required to show that the whole NASA led space fraud is the tool for the establishment of the Pharisee Religion's alternative creation scenario through the Big Bang Paradigm of 15 billion years of evolutonism, etc.
To the need for proof about the moons landings being faked, I agree with the Van Allen Belt argument and a score of other powerful pieces of evidence. I can only add this: I could never figure out how--say with the Apollo 13 shot ( Hanks movie too ) where everything went wrong and there was not enough power to operate much of anything--they would be able to catch up to the Earth allegedly going some 67,000 MPH and them going much slower... The LEO speeds are c.18,000 MPH. Presumably, the alleged orbit speed around the moon would be in that ball park. So they come around the moon, can't land, and yet "steer" for the Earth retreating from them 3-4 times faster than they're going. They can't step on the gas; nothing's working. They're flopping around, not even knowing where the Earth is. Then, in the movie anyway, they spot it out of the window and rejoice that all they have to do is keep it in the window and head on in...not just to anyplace on Earth that happens to have allegedly rotated to where they bust through, but to within hollering distance of a bunch of ships sent out to pick them up. And, of course, they do it; everybody saw the pickup on real-timeTV. But how did they accelerate to the speed needed to not only boost them to 67,000 MPH just to stay even, but an additional X thousand MPH to cover the c.200,000 mile gap between them and a precise landing spot? That increase in speed would have to be precise. They had no such boosters, and no power to operate them even if they had them. Gravity explains nothing that could remotely solve this need...there being practically none of it at 150,000 to 200,000 miles out; and certainly none that would drive the ship to a programmed entry and splash-down location. Houston, we have a problem! Marshall Hall

It's near the bottom of the page. The site doesn't show any references, but given this guy's a complete nutbar, it seems likely. There are many more in the Google search I linked.

169 Kragar  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:14:51pm

re: #166 ArmyWife

wait, wait, wait. I don't agree with creationists, but I can look at their views and understand how they get there(misguided as they may be). But this?


Didn't Galileo solve that little mystery for us in the 1600s?

HERETIC!

170 [deleted]  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:15:40pm
171 Cato the Elder  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:15:44pm

Speaking of the "faked moon landing" kooks: I've always wondered about something. With today's telescopes wouldn't it be possible to photograph the landing craft, lunar buggies and other stuff left behind on the surface? Has this ever been done?

Not that it would convince the troofers, but wouldn't it be fun to have the photos?

172 notutopia  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:16:45pm

re: #155 ploome hineni

Rush is on Hannity tonight

he looks sick...bloated and unwell

ploome, after yesterday, there's no way any of us would be caught on live camera....there's not enough ice packs and alum water to fix my face from all the tears I've cried in pain.

173 Digital Display  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:16:48pm

re: #166 ArmyWife

wait, wait, wait. I don't agree with creationists, but I can look at their views and understand how they get there(misguided as they may be). But this?

Didn't Galileo solve that little mystery for us in the 1600s?

He sure did..Then the Thugs from the church showed up..then the story changed rather quickly...

174 jim in virginia  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:17:06pm

re: #143 logboy

There will also be a 30% fornication tax on individuals making more than $1 a year, not living off welfare.


And a head tax on...

175 ArmyWife  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:17:27pm

re: #116 albusteve

The only "ball breaker" for me is insisting we all believe in creationism. Science is science, feel free to teach religious views from home or in private school.

Vote dem all you want, too. The beauty is this is a free country so you are welcome to do so. The irony is the people that protect that freedom get screwed each and every time a Dem is in office.

176 Guanxi88  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:17:46pm

re: #173 HoosierHoops

He sure did..Then the Thugs from the church showed up..then the story changed rather quickly...

That's what the helio-centric (get it? helio = "Sun", centric = "centered") Pagans want you to think.

177 albusteve  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:17:55pm

re: #169 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

HERETIC!

where's Arthur Brown when ya need him?

178 Fat Jolly Penguin  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:17:55pm

re: #168 Fat Jolly Penguin

There are many more in the Google search I linked.

OK, less than I originally thought, but enough to make me suspicious.

179 ArmyWife  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:17:56pm

re: #168 Fat Jolly Penguin

Mythbusters did a GREAT episode on this.

180 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:18:23pm

re: #125 Cato the Elder

There sure is no intelligence in the design of that mess:

[meta name="GENERATOR" content="Microsoft FrontPage 5.0"]
[meta name="ProgId" content="FrontPage.Editor.Document"]

I am not surprised it was Front Page that created this swill.

181 Fat Jolly Penguin  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:18:31pm

re: #179 ArmyWife

Mythbusters did a GREAT episode on this.

I saw that one. It was excellent.

182 Cato the Elder  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:18:42pm

Whoa, is C. Kennedy really out of the running?

So much for the dynastic form of democracy. One or two generations is quite enough, thank you very much.

Nobody could beat the pharaohs when it came to dynamic dynasties, anyway. 'Course it helped that they were gods.

183 jim in virginia  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:19:03pm

re: #157 karmic_inquisitor

Wife.

Girlfriend.

184 funky chicken  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:19:04pm

any lizards in the las vegas valley? have you ever had a vegas lizard lunch?

185 Digital Display  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:19:10pm

re: #171 Cato the Elder

Speaking of the "faked moon landing" kooks: I've always wondered about something. With today's telescopes wouldn't it be possible to photograph the landing craft, lunar buggies and other stuff left behind on the surface? Has this ever been done?

Not that it would convince the troofers, but wouldn't it be fun to have the photos?

We left a mirror there..we bounce lasers of it everyday to measure the distance between the earth and moon..We didn't leave the Mirror on the moon..we outsourced it to India..

186 [deleted]  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:19:18pm
187 solomonpanting  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:19:41pm

From the bat guano site:

The Global Warming Obsession Rests on Acceptance of Billions of Years of Evolutionism

Actually, it rests on a hundred plus years of bat guano political and social economic "theories".

188 WhiteRasta  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:19:41pm

re: #171 Cato the Elder

I'm pretty sure NASA has photographed various landers on the surface of Mars.

Not that it would convince a bat guano loonie they were real.....

189 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:19:42pm

re: #171 Cato the Elder

Speaking of the "faked moon landing" kooks: I've always wondered about something. With today's telescopes wouldn't it be possible to photograph the landing craft, lunar buggies and other stuff left behind on the surface? Has this ever been done?

Not that it would convince the troofers, but wouldn't it be fun to have the photos?

I do believe NASA has done so many times. But therein lies the conundrum.

190 albusteve  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:19:46pm

re: #175 ArmyWife

The only "ball breaker" for me is insisting we all believe in creationism. Science is science, feel free to teach religious views from home or in private school.

Vote dem all you want, too. The beauty is this is a free country so you are welcome to do so. The irony is the people that protect that freedom get screwed each and every time a Dem is in office.

I've never voted for a dem...I dont know where you got that idea

191 [deleted]  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:20:22pm
192 Guanxi88  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:20:27pm

re: #188 WhiteRasta

I'm pretty sure NASA has photographed various landers on the surface of Mars.

Not that it would convince a bat guano loonie they were real.....

Atheist!

193 David IV of Georgia  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:20:36pm

re: #166 ArmyWife

wait, wait, wait. I don't agree with creationists, but I can look at their views and understand how they get there(misguided as they may be). But this?

Didn't Galileo solve that little mystery for us in the 1600s?

There are people in this country that actually believe that the Bible, both the Hebrew and Christian scriptures, were written in English.
There are people who also believe that Paul of Tarsus, St. Paul the Apostle, wrote the entire set of books and letters.
Never mind the fact that the scriptures themselves say otherwise.

194 quickjustice  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:21:41pm

re: #153 Killgore Trout

As John Wayne once said, "You gotta be a man before you can be a gentle-man." A great President must have basic qualities of character and temperament that support higher achievements. Palin has the foundations of greatness. She's not yet ready for high office, but she'll get there.

195 [deleted]  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:21:48pm
196 albusteve  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:21:49pm

re: #182 Cato the Elder

Whoa, is C. Kennedy really out of the running?

So much for the dynastic form of democracy. One or two generations is quite enough, thank you very much.

Nobody could beat the pharaohs when it came to dynamic dynasties, anyway. 'Course it helped that they were gods.

she was in for a major can of wup ass imo...not nearly up to the scathing criticism she was gonna take...

197 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:22:02pm

re: #108 Killgore Trout

ID and other "conservative" social issues are making me much less interested in Republicans.

I'm generally with you on that part of it, but not to the extent of voting Demo.

I seek too much self-seeking, pontificating, in some (some) of these self-proclaimed, highly-focused, "Conservative" groups.

Generalizing here ... "fiscal conservatives" tend to want everyone to stay out of their wallets, and character and charity be damned ... "cap-R Religious conservatives" reject the hedonistic Popular Culture, but character and compassion be damned unless it's one of our own ... "Libertarian conservatives" want the freedom to do whatever they effing well please, and character of any sort is immaterial.

Oh F*** it!

Last summer, a mother dog in Argentina's winter picked up a human newborn and carried it to her pups, keeping it alive. Aristotle said, judge someone by their actions. Well, dammit, I say that mother dog was more of a Conservative -- one who preserves that which is good, that which is worth it, that which has eternal value -- than a lot of the self-righteous whom I see pounding on chests nowadays.

Rant effing well OFF, and pBMb is out of here for the night!

198 Occasional Reader  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:22:14pm

Late to this thread. If I understand correctly, it's been scientifically proven that the Earth does not revolve around the Kennedy compound?

199 wahabicorridor  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:22:39pm

re: #157 karmic_inquisitor

Wife.

I doubt it. That fix is in for Teddy's wife Vicki.

200 Guanxi88  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:22:46pm

re: #198 Occasional Reader

Late to this thread. If I understand correctly, it's been scientifically proven that the Earth does not revolve around the Kennedy compound?

To oversimplify somewhat, yes.

201 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:22:55pm

re: #146 wahabicorridor

SORRY - THIS IS A SERIOUS RUMOR ALERT - UNCONFIRMED BY SECONDARY SOURCES (but my record has been good so far)

We're starting to get calls from clients in NY that Caroline Kennedy has withdrawn or will be withdrawing her bid for the Senate. The backstory rumor is that Patterson called and told her she would not be selected. The rumor continues that Patterson's selection will be a woman (which basically kneecaps Cuomo) - but everyone is scrambling to figure out who.

I heard earlier on the top of the hour radio news break that Patterson reportedly quipped he wished he could appoint Michelle Obama. *BARF*

202 Occasional Reader  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:23:05pm

re: #192 Guanxi88

Atheist!

You rang?

203 Digital Display  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:23:20pm

re: #198 Occasional Reader

Late to this thread. If I understand correctly, it's been scientifically proven that the Earth does not revolve around the Kennedy compound?

Not until we can prove that Dark energy is not involved..Cause that changes everything

204 brookly red  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:23:22pm

re: #183 jim in virginia

Girlfriend.


Spitzers consort?

205 ArmyWife  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:23:22pm

re: #190 albusteve

I was responding to the thread with you and KT. You seemed to support her thoughts. My apologies if I assumed too much.

206 jaunte  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:23:44pm

I had to run an errand today at lunch, and listened to a talk radio call-in show
(in Houston) about evolution, intelligent design, and from the small sampling of callers I heard, it appears that there is a tremendous amount of confusion about what science is and how it works.

Several of the callers were vigorously pitching the idea that evolutionary biology has an active 'anti-religious' program.

207 albusteve  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:23:47pm

re: #198 Occasional Reader

Late to this thread. If I understand correctly, it's been scientifically proven that the Earth does not revolve around the Kennedy compound?

already hot eh?

208 Killian Bundy  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:23:51pm

Obama to close terrorist 'black sites'

President Obama on Thursday will order the closure of so-called black sites, where CIA and European security services have interrogated terrorist suspects, under executive orders dismantling much of the Bush admistration's architecture for the war on terror, according to four individuals familiar with a draft executive order.

Mr. Obama will shutter "all permanant detention facilities overseas," the draft said, according to the individuals who asked not to be named because the orders have not yet been signed. There are at least eight such prisons, according to published reports. The Bush administration never revealed the number or location of the facilities, although several were said to be in Eastern Europe.

/next he'll shut down the rendition programs and we'll never have any advance warning of the next terrorist attack, feeling safer now?

209 WhiteRasta  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:23:55pm

re: #193 David IV of Georgia

There are 1 billion people who believe the deranged rantings of a pedophile...

210 jcm  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:23:57pm

re: #146 wahabicorridor

SORRY - THIS IS A SERIOUS RUMOR ALERT - UNCONFIRMED BY SECONDARY SOURCES (but my record has been good so far)

We're starting to get calls from clients in NY that Caroline Kennedy has withdrawn or will be withdrawing her bid for the Senate. The backstory rumor is that Patterson called and told her she would not be selected. The rumor continues that Patterson's selection will be a woman (which basically kneecaps Cuomo) - but everyone is scrambling to figure out who.

Ashley Alexander Dyupre

211 Guanxi88  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:23:59pm

re: #202 Occasional Reader

You rang?

Neat! Does that always work?

Lemme try another:

"Victoria's Secret Model".

Nope, nothin'.

212 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:24:05pm

re: #202 Occasional Reader

You rang?

Yes I did! Where's dinner?!? ;)

213 USBeast  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:24:06pm

re: #191 taxfreekiller

LBJ lied every time he move his lips.
LBJ lied a generation into this shit we see before us now.
LBJ was a lie, he lived a lie, he lied about his lies, he now lies a liar.

100% Democrat every day of his sorry life.

Should be dug up and cast into the deep blue sea.

Whoa Dude, I've got my problems with LBJ but don't you think you're a little bit over the top? He's dead and gone. Let him rest and let's get on with our lives.

214 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:24:11pm

re: #171 Cato the Elder

You can see the sites but I don't know if you can see left over stuff.

215 Charles Johnson  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:24:21pm

Notice how many creationist tropes appear in Chism's disclaimer:

* random, undirected forces

* the "Cambrian Explosion"

* the "lack of transitional forms"

* a roundabout version of "irreducible complexity"

It's a potpourri of creationist craziness.

216 albusteve  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:25:01pm

re: #205 ArmyWife

I was responding to the thread with you and KT. You seemed to support her thoughts. My apologies if I assumed too much.

I do not support her thoughts....when I dont for GoP I dont vote....
no problemo

217 Occasional Reader  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:25:02pm

re: #208 Killian Bundy

Obama to close terrorist 'black sites'

/next he'll shut down the rendition programs and we'll never have any advance warning of the next terrorist attack, feeling safer now?

Well, okay, I guess our troops will just have to shoot 'em in the field now. [shrug]

218 ArmyWife  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:25:11pm

re: #208 Killian Bundy

Change I don't want to believe.

219 jim in virginia  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:25:19pm

re: #199 wahabicorridor

I doubt it. That fix is in for Teddy's wife Vicki.

No! I figured Patrick woud get appointed to his Dad's seat.

220 MandyManners  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:25:22pm

re: #208 Killian Bundy

Obama to close terrorist 'black sites'


/next he'll shut down the rendition programs and we'll never have any advance warning of the next terrorist attack, feeling safer now?

AAARRRRRRGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHH.

221 Guanxi88  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:25:30pm

re: #215 Charles

Notice how many creationist tropes appear in Chism's disclaimer:

* random, undirected forces

* the "Cambrian Explosion"

* the "lack of transitional forms"

* a roundabout version of "irreducible complexity"

It's a potpourri of creationist craziness.

A goulash of goofiness; a stew of silliness; a mish-mash of medacious nonsense.

222 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:25:41pm

re: #197 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Cheers.

223 J.D.  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:25:42pm

re: #208 Killian Bundy

Clueless is as clueless does.

224 [deleted]  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:25:45pm
225 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:26:04pm

re: #215 Charles

Notice how many creationist tropes appear in Chism's disclaimer:

* random, undirected forces

* the "Cambrian Explosion"

* the "lack of transitional forms"

* a roundabout version of "irreducible complexity"

It's a potpourri of creationist craziness.

One-site cyber lobotomy shop, eh?

226 OldLineTexan  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:26:22pm

re: #217 Occasional Reader

Well, okay, I guess our troops will just have to shoot 'em in the field now. [shrug]

That IS the unintended consequence of all this.

Troop afraid to shoot, and afraid to not shoot.

Very bad.

227 Guanxi88  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:26:28pm

re: #225 FurryOldGuyJeans

One-site cyber lobotomy shop, eh?

No, a lobotomy fixes this sort of thing.

228 albusteve  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:27:06pm

re: #224 ploome hineni

will it get Nobama impeached?

anti-war crimes....

229 wahabicorridor  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:27:12pm

re: #164 buzzsawmonkey

You haven't heard about Cuomo's upcoming transgender surgery?

////////////

Upcoming? No. Already happened. It was when he divorced his skank Kennedy-clan wife.

230 jim in virginia  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:27:40pm

re: #204 brookly red

Spitzers consort?

I thought that too. But she's too young.

Hannity just mentioned the Katrina reference on whitehouse.gov

231 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:27:42pm

re: #223 J.D.

Clueless is as clueless does.

We elected Forrest Gump as POTUS?

232 quickjustice  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:27:45pm

re: #227 Guanxi88

As the old saying goes, "I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a pre-frontal lobotomy."

233 Guanxi88  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:28:05pm

re: #232 quickjustice

As the old saying goes, "I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a pre-frontal lobotomy."

Hear, hear!

234 unclassifiable  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:28:07pm

Well one thing you can say about creationism.

It's certainly easier than trying to get 10 or more years of advanced scientific studies under your belt and then trying to apply it.

235 Bloodnok  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:28:08pm

re: #221 Guanxi88

A goulash of goofiness; a stew of silliness; a mish-mash of medacious nonsense.

A roux of ridiculousness. A bouillabaisse of batshattery.

236 jaunte  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:28:13pm

Let's enact all similar legislation after a waiting period, say, equal to one sudden Cambrian explosion.

237 J.D.  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:28:20pm

re: #231 FurryOldGuyJeans

We elected Forrest Gump as POTUS?

If only.

238 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:28:27pm

re: #184 funky chicken

We do have a couple Vegas Lizards. I can't recall names right now but there are a few around.

239 Guanxi88  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:28:28pm

re: #235 Bloodnok

A roux of ridiculousness. A bouillabaisse of batshattery.

Very nice.

240 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:28:38pm

re: #232 quickjustice

As the old saying goes, "I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a pre-frontal lobotomy."

But then what will you do with the box of frozen peas?

241 [deleted]  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:28:53pm
242 MandyManners  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:28:54pm

re: #231 FurryOldGuyJeans

We elected Forrest Gump as POTUS?

I'd rather have Gump for president than CBBHO.

243 ArmyWife  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:29:10pm

re: #170 buzzsawmonkey

I feel the sky tumbling down, tumbling down.

and I blame Obama.

244 Guanxi88  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:29:21pm

re: #242 MandyManners

I'd rather have Gump for president than CBBHO.

True, he ran a business, at least, and served with honor.

245 reine.de.tout  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:29:40pm

re: #238 Killgore Trout

We do have a couple Vegas Lizards. I can't recall names right now but there are a few around.

Well, the nic "Vegas Rick" has a sort of a clue in it.

246 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:29:40pm

re: #242 MandyManners

I'd rather have Gump for president than CBBHO.

He certainly would be a step up.

247 itellu3times  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:29:45pm

re: #133 Killgore Trout

Quantum physics is pretty accurate. The chips in the computer you are typing on depend on quantum physics being correct.

It's instrumentally true, useful, pragmatic, close enough, we don't have any other theory that will let us build chips, but nobody yet has understood the wave/particle duality, nor integrated relativity, qm, and gravity. Instrumentalism makes a lot of philosophers sick to the stomach today, but it was pretty much the establishment view about 1920 through, oh, circa 1970 they tell me.

An instrumentalist theory is one that just sort of seems to work, in spite of not being perfect, in spite of people having questions. Pretty much all scientific theories are more or less like that. You want to do ANY kind of biology today, you have to honor the molecular biology, and in action it's going to evolve on you, and even most of the ID wacks agree to that. Then they try to draw a line - somewhere else. Well, good luck with that. Stephen J. Gould sort of did, too, though he was a rabid pro-evolutionist. Never worked for him, either. Doesn't mean someone, someday, won't draw a line - somewhere, and show that, um, well, what IS there to show? Someday WE may do some intelligent design, eliminate some diseases, maybe, invent a new human offshoot species. And that still won't in any way disprove natural selection with speciation explained by genetics, which is about 98% of evolution, anyway.

Excuse me, I'm ranting.

Off to the freeways I go.

See y'all later.

248 WhiteRasta  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:29:47pm

re: #217 Occasional Reader

You have brought up a point that has been a sore point with me for a long time.

Un-uniformed combatants should be executed on the spot.

Not taken prisoner, not sent to Gitmo, the Hague, the UN or the World Criminal Court.

Extract all the information out of them they can provide. By whatever means necessary and then execute them.

249 Guanxi88  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:29:54pm

re: #242 MandyManners

I'd rather have Gump for president than CBBHO.

re: #244 Guanxi88

True, he ran a business, at least, and served with honor.

But both are fictional characters, so maybe they do have something in common.

250 notutopia  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:30:16pm

re: #235 Bloodnok

A roux of ridiculousness. A bouillabaisse of batshattery.

Sounds like the something in a bowl I got served in a bad Nawlins' restaurant.

251 quickjustice  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:30:22pm

re: #242 MandyManners

Gump was lucky. So was Reagan. That's important in a President.

252 WhiteRasta  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:30:23pm

re: #221 Guanxi88

A pile of bat guano, in other words.....

253 solomonpanting  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:30:25pm
Physicists Create Phony Math To Rule Out A Non-Moving Earth

I'm not too sure about that.
"The Earth moved for me, honey, did it move for you?"

254 albusteve  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:30:28pm

re: #226 OldLineTexan

That IS the unintended consequence of all this.

Troop afraid to shoot, and afraid to not shoot.

Very bad.

I myself would find it nearly impossible to gun down an unarmed man no matter who he is....this could be a real problem if he surrenders...pretty fundamental question Oboy should publically address....what's his take?....bring them to the Staes and try them?....all of them?

255 MandyManners  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:30:36pm

re: #249 Guanxi88

But both are fictional characters, so maybe they do have something in common.

*rimshot*

256 J.D.  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:30:48pm

re: #249 Guanxi88

You mean to tell me Forrest Gump wasn't real?

257 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:31:22pm

re: #247 itellu3times

Excuse me, I'm ranting.

Off to the freeways I go.

See y'all later.

Seems to me to be a remarkably lucid and accurate rant. No flecks of flying foam that I could see.

258 jcm  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:31:34pm

OT

David Frum has a new initiative....
New Majority: Building a conservatism that can win again.

What thinks thou?

259 [deleted]  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:31:41pm
260 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:31:44pm

re: #222 Killgore Trout

Cheers.

Thanks.

/cooled down ... still here for the moment

261 Occasional Reader  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:31:51pm

re: #248 WhiteRasta

Un-uniformed combatants should be executed on the spot.

Okay. But what about combatants with really, really snappy uniforms?

262 jaunte  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:32:00pm

re: #253 solomonpanting

I'm not too sure about that.
"The Earth moved for me, honey, did it move for you?"

Maybe it never moved for Mrs. Chism, and he's still trying to explain.

263 Guanxi88  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:32:09pm

re: #252 WhiteRasta

A pile of bat guano, in other words.....

I thought he was a Colonel:


Always talking about "pre-versions", that guy.

264 wahabicorridor  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:32:29pm

re: #156 albusteve

it's been up at Drudge for quite awhile now...

And that's what I get for doing the dishes instead of reading Drudge.

No, seriously, the NY Post does an incredible job covering Albany - a gov't seat that makes the snake pit of Washington look like a tea party of the Daughters of the American Revolution.

In other news - that photo of her? I like it. I'm about 10 years older. I smoke, I drink, I eat a lot of stuff I'm not supposed to - and I look one hellevua better than she does.

/no sun - catty bitch mode off

265 Son of the Black Dog  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:32:42pm

re: #155 ploome hineni

Rush is on Hannity tonight

he looks sick...bloated and unwell

I've been feeling that way since about noon yesterday.

266 albusteve  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:32:54pm

re: #241 taxfreekiller

The Democrat Party reminds me of a street gang, you have to do some action the party lays out, once you have committed the crime and furnished the CD film record to them you get a Government job and checks for life. But you can not leave the "Company".

godfathers and cappos and bag men and soldiers....they're all goodfellas eh?

267 Guanxi88  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:32:55pm

re: #255 MandyManners

*rimshot*

From you, Mandy, it means a lot.

268 WhiteRasta  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:33:07pm

re: #261 Occasional Reader

Feed them to the pigs.....

269 Guanxi88  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:33:22pm

re: #261 Occasional Reader

Okay. But what about combatants with really, really snappy uniforms?

I thought they always lost the war.

270 lawhawk  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:33:27pm

re: #210 jcm

Close... but my gut tells me it's going to be one of the following three:

Carolyn Maloney
Nydia Velaquez
Nita Lowey

271 Occasional Reader  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:33:56pm

LGF Poll: Should I clean my pistol tonight?

It's dirty. But I'm feeling lazy.

272 albusteve  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:34:07pm

re: #261 Occasional Reader

Okay. But what about combatants with really, really snappy uniforms?

GQ for some pics at the least

273 experiencedtraveller  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:34:17pm

re: #261 Occasional Reader

Okay. But what about combatants with really, really snappy uniforms?

Which brings us back to Qadaffi...

274 Guanxi88  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:34:17pm

re: #270 lawhawk

Close... but my gut tells me it's going to be one of the following three:

Carolyn Maloney
Nydia Velaquez
Nita Lowey

Alex, what is "whack-job leftist hacks"?

275 Occasional Reader  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:34:30pm

re: #263 Guanxi88

I thought he was a Colonel:

[Video]

Always talking about "pre-versions", that guy.

You're gonna hafta answer to the Coca-Cola Company.

276 Bloodnok  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:34:32pm

re: #271 Occasional Reader

LGF Poll: Should I clean my pistol tonight?

It's dirty. But I'm feeling lazy.

You have a social disease, son.

277 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:34:41pm

re: #259 ploome hineni

Somebody upthread was asking about a Vegas lizard gathering.

278 Guanxi88  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:34:48pm

re: #275 Occasional Reader

You're gonna hafta answer to the Coca-Cola Company.

Wonderful movie, great scene.

279 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:34:54pm

re: #258 jcm

OT

David Frum has a new initiative....
New Majority: Building a conservatism that can win again.

What thinks thou?

Which one of the lizards are you asking? (Thou is 2nd person singular, You would be the appropriate 2nd person singular or plural)

280 [deleted]  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:34:57pm
281 solomonpanting  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:35:04pm

re: #265 Son of the Black Dog

re: #155 ploome hineni

Rush is on Hannity tonight

he looks sick...bloated and unwell

I've been feeling that way since about noon yesterday.

A severe case of Obamahrea. Rest up and call me in four years.

282 Son of the Black Dog  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:35:08pm

re: #191 taxfreekiller

LBJ lied every time he move his lips.
LBJ lied a generation into this shit we see before us now.
LBJ was a lie, he lived a lie, he lied about his lies, he now lies a liar.

100% Democrat every day of his sorry life.

Should be dug up and cast into the deep blue sea.

Let me get my shovel.

/Although my take on it was that he should have been buried with a wooden stake driven through his heart.

283 jcm  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:35:12pm

re: #270 lawhawk

Close... but my gut tells me it's going to be one of the following three:

Carolyn Maloney
Nydia Velaquez
Nita Lowey

At least we know my pick is "experienced" and can "perform."

284 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:35:28pm

re: #271 Occasional Reader

LGF Poll: Should I clean my pistol tonight?

It's dirty. But I'm feeling lazy.

Look down the barrel and pull the trigger. If you see the mechanism working, it's fine.

/SARC!

285 Occasional Reader  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:35:33pm

re: #276 Bloodnok

You have a social disease, son.

Not THAT pistol...

286 MandyManners  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:35:36pm

A lot of conspiracy sites have links to sites about fake moon walks and how Masons and World Jewry are behind the destruction of Western Civilization. I don't think Chism would appreciate those nuts 'cause he's a Mason.

287 TheMatrix31  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:35:55pm

Black sites are racist.

288 jaunte  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:36:45pm

"Hey, Rep. Chism. Say hello to my little friend…
(a mysterious four-legged fish that underwater cameras caught wandering the ocean bottom)"
[Link: entertheoctopus.wordpress.com...]

289 wahabicorridor  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:36:47pm

re: #219 jim in virginia

No! I figured Patrick woud get appointed to his Dad's seat.

Really don't think so. Patrick is a certifiable mental defective personality. But he has a lock on the seat in a very small state for the time being, so they're not going to give that up. Seriously. The man drools when he speaks. In private conversation. And Vicki apparently is a responsible person - who married the man for love

290 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:36:52pm
291 Occasional Reader  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:36:56pm

re: #278 Guanxi88

Wonderful movie, great scene.

"Do you think I carry loose change into battle?"

(Good rhetorical question. Lt. Bat Guano wasn't totally bonkers.)

292 Guanxi88  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:37:04pm

re: #286 MandyManners

A lot of conspiracy sites have links to sites about fake moon walks and how Masons and World Jewry are behind the destruction of Western Civilization. I don't think Chism would appreciate those nuts 'cause he's a Mason.

Yes, I saw a documentary about his Masonic ties:

I'm a traveling man myself, but that's pretty funny.

293 outsidephilly  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:37:25pm

re: #247 itellu3times

It's instrumentally true, useful, pragmatic, close enough, we don't have any other theory that will let us build chips, but nobody yet has understood the wave/particle duality, nor integrated relativity, qm, and gravity. Instrumentalism makes a lot of philosophers sick to the stomach today, but it was pretty much the establishment view about 1920 through, oh, circa 1970 they tell me.

An instrumentalist theory is one that just sort of seems to work, in spite of not being perfect, in spite of people having questions. Pretty much all scientific theories are more or less like that. You want to do ANY kind of biology today, you have to honor the molecular biology, and in action it's going to evolve on you, and even most of the ID wacks agree to that. Then they try to draw a line - somewhere else. Well, good luck with that. Stephen J. Gould sort of did, too, though he was a rabid pro-evolutionist. Never worked for him, either. Doesn't mean someone, someday, won't draw a line - somewhere, and show that, um, well, what IS there to show? Someday WE may do some intelligent design, eliminate some diseases, maybe, invent a new human offshoot species. And that still won't in any way disprove natural selection with speciation explained by genetics, which is about 98% of evolution, anyway.

Excuse me, I'm ranting.

Off to the freeways I go.

See y'all later.

". . . , but nobody yet has understood the wave/particle duality, nor integrated relativity, qm, and gravity.", so, we'll never know where dust bunnies come from?

294 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:37:40pm

re: #286 MandyManners

A lot of conspiracy sites have links to sites about fake moon walks and how Masons and World Jewry are behind the destruction of Western Civilization. I don't think Chism would appreciate those nuts 'cause he's a Mason.

You would think the same about radical Christian IDers in bed with radical Muslim IDers, but there you go.

295 Guanxi88  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:38:03pm

re: #291 Occasional Reader

"Do you think I carry loose change into battle?"

(Good rhetorical question. Lt. Bat Guano wasn't totally bonkers.)

No, one can be bat guano crazy and still function. Take my family, please.

296 quickjustice  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:38:13pm

re: #270 lawhawk

Nope. Paterson will pick Democratic Congresswoman Kirsten Gillebrand from upstate. She balances the ticket, and is Schumer's choice.

297 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:38:48pm

re: #295 Guanxi88

No, one can be bat guano crazy and still function. Take my family, please.

Umm, no thanks...you can keep 'em. I have my own batch.

298 Mr Secul  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:39:00pm

re: #52 jcm

Why does a dog lick it's balls?

To get rid of the taste of dog food!

299 Occasional Reader  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:39:02pm

re: #291 Occasional Reader

"Do you think I carry loose change into battle?"

(Good rhetorical question. Lt. Bat Guano wasn't totally bonkers.)

(Apologies, it is indeed Colonel)

300 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:39:42pm

re: #296 quickjustice

Nope. Paterson will pick Democratic Congresswoman Kirsten Gillebrand from upstate. She balances the ticket, and is Schumer's choice.

Balances what ticket?

301 Son of the Black Dog  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:39:48pm

re: #204 brookly red

Spitzers consort?

She isn't nearly as much of a whore as most of the senators are.
Bet she's got higher standards.

302 albusteve  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:40:08pm

re: #290 Killgore Trout

See also: Giuliani, Part 1: Stop Being the Narrow Party

he would make just one hell of a president...
repeat
RUDY!

303 jcm  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:40:23pm

re: #279 FurryOldGuyJeans

Which one of the lizards are you asking? (Thou is 2nd person singular, You would be the appropriate 2nd person singular or plural)

Since you answered... or asked.... or ahhh now you got me all confused!

Each reader individually! That's it, and I'm sticking to that!

304 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:40:32pm

re: #61 Crux Australis

I'm am fascinated by those who take the time and effort to log onto to LGF (not to mention the time and effort it takes to type and post a comment) just so they tell everyone how uninterested they are in the topic.

Must be some kind of mental disorder. Must be.

305 Vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret)  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:40:37pm

re: #301 Son of the Black Dog

She isn't nearly as much of a whore as most of the senators are.
Bet she's got higher standards.

And easier on the eyes, too.

306 ArmyWife  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:40:45pm

re: #288 jaunte

He sure is a busy little guy going a whole lot of nowhere!

307 jim in virginia  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:40:58pm

re: #289 wahabicorridor

Really don't think so. Patrick is a certifiable mental defective personality. The man drools when he speaks. In private conversation.

So drugs are bad, huh?

308 wahabicorridor  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:41:06pm

re: #270 lawhawk

Close... but my gut tells me it's going to be one of the following three:

Carolyn Maloney
Nydia Velaquez
Nita Lowey

Nita Lowey would be good - she's smart, not an ideologue, very effective. BUT. She's having some health problems - and as whoever gets it has to run again in 2 years, that may be a deal breaker.

gotta hop.

309 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:41:15pm

re: #303 jcm

Since you answered... or asked.... or ahhh now you got me all confused!

Each reader individually! That's it, and I'm sticking to that!

Ok, Mr. Kerry ;)

310 ArmyWife  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:41:56pm

I'm gonna go read. Y'all have a good night. Behave as well as you are able.

311 notutopia  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:41:59pm

re: #258 jcm

OT
David Frum has a new initiative....
New Majority: Building a conservatism that can win again.

What thinks thou?


I, not thou, thinks I will spend more time reading his site and doing some research. I don't know much about Frum or his wife. I'll let you know in a couple of days.
[Link: www.newmajority.com...]

312 [deleted]  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:42:12pm
313 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:42:17pm

re: #302 albusteve

I think he's probably unelectable. Too many scandals, ex-wives, affairs, etc. I think he's beyond qualified but I think his personal life is a problem.

314 Bloodnok  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:42:21pm

re: #288 jaunte

"Hey, Rep. Chism. Say hello to my little friend…
(a mysterious four-legged fish that underwater cameras caught wandering the ocean bottom)"
[Link: entertheoctopus.wordpress.com...]

That thing was awesome!

315 OldLineTexan  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:42:30pm

re: #254 albusteve

I myself would find it nearly impossible to gun down an unarmed man no matter who he is....this could be a real problem if he surrenders...pretty fundamental question Oboy should publically address....what's his take?....bring them to the Staes and try them?....all of them?

I am reading the account of Seal Team 10 in Afghanistan right now, as chance would have it. Lone Survivor by Marcus Luttrell.

316 Killian Bundy  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:42:30pm
Obama indicated that he plans to strike a new tone when he said during his inaugural address, "We reject as false the choice between our safety and our ideals."

Flexing his own maverick streak, Obama also quipped, "I'm a lefty. Get used to it," as he signed his first proclamation.

/wow, we're totally [expletive deleted], toothpaste ain't goin' back in the tube now!

317 [deleted]  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:42:50pm
318 jaunte  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:42:58pm

re: #306 ArmyWife

He does a good job of pretending to be a rock, when the predators go by.

319 Guanxi88  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:43:19pm

re: #318 jaunte

He does a good job of pretending to be a rock, when the predators go by.

French, is it?

320 jim in virginia  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:43:33pm

re: #296 quickjustice

Nope. Paterson will pick Democratic Congresswoman Kirsten Gillebrand from upstate. She balances the ticket, and is Schumer's choice.


What does it take for a female Congress person to be Schumer's choice?

321 freetoken  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:43:47pm

re: #258 jcm

OT

David Frum has a new initiative....
New Majority: Building a conservatism that can win again.

What thinks thou?

From a very quick look... it doesn't seem that different from countless other sites trying to gather some sort of "conservative" momentum, now that the Republican party is in rebuild-mode.

In other words, why should I visit that site when there is NRO, VDH, etc?

322 jcm  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:43:48pm

re: #309 FurryOldGuyJeans

Ok, Mr. Kerry ;)

That will be seared, seared into my memory.

323 Occasional Reader  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:44:00pm

re: #317 ploome hineni

no

Thank you! Finally a vote. And one in favor of laziness, which I appreciate.

324 WhiteRasta  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:44:21pm

re: #274 Guanxi88

Any news reader on Communist News Network......

325 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:44:23pm

Part 2 is also relevant to tonight's discussion....
Giuliani, Part 2: What Went Wrong in 2008

326 albusteve  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:44:28pm

re: #313 Killgore Trout

I think he's probably unelectable. Too many scandals, ex-wives, affairs, etc. I think he's beyond qualified but I think his personal life is a problem.

true and he obviously distains campaigning....he needs a more influential job somewhere...maybe in the media

327 Guanxi88  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:44:42pm

re: #271 Occasional Reader

LGF Poll: Should I clean my pistol tonight?

It's dirty. But I'm feeling lazy.

Clean your damned sidearm! What are you, nuts? Clean the damned thing, keep it in apple-pie order.

A firearm's kinds funny like that - if clean, it'll kill the bad guys. Dirty, it'll kill you.

328 Vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret)  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:44:54pm

re: #315 OldLineTexan

I am reading the account of Seal Team 10 in Afghanistan right now, as chance would have it. Lone Survivor by Marcus Luttrell.

Great book! Should be required reading for every lib...

329 Kragar  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:45:09pm

re: #323 Occasional Reader

Thank you! Finally a vote. And one in favor of laziness, which I appreciate.

Always maintain your gear first ya lazy bastard. Get scrubbing

330 jcm  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:45:15pm

re: #311 notutopia

I, not thou, thinks I will spend more time reading his site and doing some research. I don't know much about Frum or his wife. I'll let you know in a couple of days.
[Link: www.newmajority.com...]

That' why I linked it for thee, to take a gander.
;-P

331 albusteve  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:46:17pm

re: #315 OldLineTexan

I am reading the account of Seal Team 10 in Afghanistan right now, as chance would have it. Lone Survivor by Marcus Luttrell.

gives us the skinny sometime...I'd like to read it myself (library or paperback)

332 Son of the Black Dog  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:46:30pm

re: #213 USBeast

Whoa Dude, I've got my problems with LBJ but don't you think you're a little bit over the top? He's dead and gone. Let him rest and let's get on with our lives.

Sorry, I'm with TFK on this. LBJ may be dead and buried, but I've still got multiple problems related to my Vietnam service, and so do lots of others, many of them here.

Where LBJ went, I don't think they give rest breaks, or icewater.

333 jcm  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:46:34pm

re: #315 OldLineTexan

I am reading the account of Seal Team 10 in Afghanistan right now, as chance would have it. Lone Survivor by Marcus Luttrell.

Outstanding book!

334 wahabicorridor  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:46:35pm

re: #307 jim in virginia

So drugs are bad, huh?

In his case, they're a definite improvement.

Re: Gillebrand - there is a question about whether she wants it. She just had a baby a few months ago and the learning curve from House to Senate is tough. But I don't know anyone who has a bad thing to say about her. Think Susan Molinari. That kind of 'like'.

Come to think of it - and I have no info, I'm thinking out loud - what about Molinari? She's a down-stater, but so what? Clinton was out of state? Paterson's contention that he wanted an upstater was belied by his consideration of Kennedy.

335 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:47:21pm

re: #74 tommy

Camel's nose under the tent. Their agenda is much more sinister than, and will not stop with, a simple disclaimer.

336 Occasional Reader  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:47:41pm

re: #327 Guanxi88

Clean your damned sidearm! What are you, nuts? Clean the damned thing, keep it in apple-pie order.

A firearm's kinds funny like that - if clean, it'll kill the bad guys. Dirty, it'll kill you.

I have another, perfectly clean firearm on standby.

337 beermeister  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:47:49pm

"any statement about life’s origins should be considered a theory hypothesis"

I'd say life origins are nothing but a hypothesis and I think there are three hypotheses.

1) God
2) Some primordial soup or other biosphere origin on Earth.
3) Space origins as espoused by Fred Hoyle and Francis Crick, et al.

I'd say macroevolution or species to species evolution is a theory. Within this theory there should be room for debate. Even Gould was an apologist at times for Darwin. I think there are alternatives to random selection. Sometimes I do not think there is a survival of the fittest at work. It could be a survival of the luckiest or survival of the most populous. I also think humans have been able to overcome natural selection from the standpoint of modern medicine saving people inflicted with various diseases and genetic mutations and our efforts to protect other species.

I'd say that microevolution or Mendelian genetics or heredity or variation or adaptation or whatever one would like to call it is a fact.

338 Occasional Reader  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:48:15pm

re: #329 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Always maintain your gear first ya lazy bastard. Get scrubbing

Dammit, you guys aren't helping my bold, fresh laziness initiative.

339 albusteve  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:48:16pm

re: #323 Occasional Reader

Thank you! Finally a vote. And one in favor of laziness, which I appreciate.

but sleep with it anyway....

340 lawhawk  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:48:45pm

re: #283 jcm

At least we know my pick is "experienced" and can "perform."

Yes, we know she is good for lip service... /self imposed *WHACK*

341 reine.de.tout  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:48:49pm

re: #315 OldLineTexan

I am reading the account of Seal Team 10 in Afghanistan right now, as chance would have it. Lone Survivor by Marcus Luttrell.

Amazing story.

342 Vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret)  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:49:00pm

re: #336 Occasional Reader

I have another, perfectly clean firearm on standby.

Clean the other one, or we revoke your rights for the day and you have to send both of them to me for safe keeping.

343 lawhawk  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:49:37pm

re: #338 Occasional Reader

Angling for a bailout? You've got to think bigger than that... start up a community organizing group that organizes groups to sit around and scratch themselves. That should be good for a $1 billion or two.

344 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:49:43pm

OT - Is Charles going to put up a LOST thread? Season opener starts in 10 minutes here in Central time.
/

345 MandyManners  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:49:45pm

re: #294 FurryOldGuyJeans

You would think the same about radical Christian IDers in bed with radical Muslim IDers, but there you go.

I honestly don't think the majority of them know about it.

346 reine.de.tout  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:50:04pm

re: #331 albusteve

gives us the skinny sometime...I'd like to read it myself (library or paperback)

Well, then, just do it!

347 Occasional Reader  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:50:41pm

re: #342 Vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret)

Clean the other one, or we revoke your rights for the day and you have to send both of them to me for safe keeping.

Good Lord. Next you jerks will be telling me to eat my vegetables.

Okay... sigh... I'm getting it out, and the Kleenbore kit.

348 swamprat  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:50:52pm

From the text above

“This textbook discusses evolution, a controversial theory some scientists present as a scientific explanation for the origin of living things. No one was present when life first appeared on earth. Therefore, any statement about life’s origins should be considered a theory,” the proposal continues.


No one has ever taken Pi to its absolute; therefore any statements about Pi.......
No one has ever measured time in other than a linear fashion therefore the theory of relativity.......
No one has ever seen a mineral at a protest march; so mineral rights cannot

349 MandyManners  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:51:06pm

re: #344 Walter L. Newton

OT - Is Charles going to put up a LOST thread? Season opener starts in 10 minutes here in Central time.
/

They've moved Golden to Kansas?

350 notutopia  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:51:09pm

re: #344 Walter L. Newton

OT - Is Charles going to put up a LOST thread? Season opener starts in 10 minutes here in Central time.
/

Thanks for the reminder!
Nytol! Stay scaly and moist.

351 Kragar  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:51:10pm

re: #344 Walter L. Newton

OT - Is Charles going to put up a LOST thread? Season opener starts in 10 minutes here in Central time.
/

One word and I keel you

352 OldLineTexan  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:51:11pm

re: #328 Vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret)

Great book! Should be required reading for every lib...

And I guess the short version is that they did NOT kill an unarmed man, who promptly reported them to the Taliban.

Tough call, made tougher by ridiculous rules of engagement, purposeful misrepresentation of the Geneva Conventions, and the real and present fear of being pilloried in the press and show-trialed by your own government.

353 Vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret)  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:51:36pm

re: #346 reine.de.tout

Well, then, just do it!

Yeah, we ain't wrecking that story for you or anyone else... it's incredible... one tidbit, you get to "be there" when a Medal of Honor is earned. And earned, it is.

354 albusteve  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:51:37pm

re: #346 reine.de.tout

Well, then, just do it!

I have a sizable stack to go thru but if it's a good shooter maybe I'll move it up

355 hazzyday  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:51:40pm

"Tropes" is the Media mind word for the day.

356 jim in virginia  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:51:40pm

re: #334 wahabicorridor

In his case, they're a definite improvement.

Re: Gillebrand - there is a question about whether she wants it. She just had a baby a few months ago and the learning curve from House to Senate is tough. But I don't know anyone who has a bad thing to say about her. Think Susan Molinari. That kind of 'like'.

Come to think of it - and I have no info, I'm thinking out loud - what about Molinari? She's a down-stater, but so what? Clinton was out of state? Paterson's contention that he wanted an upstater was belied by his consideration of Kennedy.


Isn't Molinari Republican?

357 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:51:55pm

re: #349 MandyManners

They've moved Golden to Kansas?

MOUNTAIN TIME. Sorry, I'm just so excited.

358 Sharmuta  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:52:01pm

I have not read the thread yet, but apparently Rep. Chism is unfamiliar with the Kitzmiller case...? This disclaimer is even more outrageous than the one presented in Dover.

359 Fat Jolly Penguin  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:52:07pm

re: #354 albusteve

I have a sizable stack to go thru but if it's a good shooter maybe I'll move it up

Move it up. It's amazing.

360 Vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret)  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:52:25pm

re: #347 Occasional Reader

Good Lord. Next you jerks will be telling me to eat my vegetables.

Okay... sigh... I'm getting it out, and the Kleenbore kit.

You...did...eat your vegetables, didn't you?

361 ArmyWife  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:52:42pm

re: #208 Killian Bundy

One more thing before I go - Did the Washington Times outsource their editing department to those being held in GITMO?

President Obama on Thursday will order the closure of so-called black sites, where CIA and European security services have interrogated terrorist suspects, under executive orders dismantling much of the Bush admistration's architecture for the war on terror, according to four individuals familiar with a draft executive order.

Mr. Obama will shutter "all permanant detention facilities overseas," the draft said, according to the individuals who asked not to be named because the orders have not yet been signed. There are at least eight such prisons, according to published reports. The Bush administration never revealed the number or location of the facilities, although several were said to be in Eastern Europe.

Now I can be creative in my spelling endeavors - mostly due to quick typing so I can post my pithy thoughts before 100 others have the same pithy thoughts and beat me to the up dings. This is shameful, though!

362 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:52:43pm

re: #94 MandyManners

To me, it's the same thing as telling a host IRL that his furniture sucks and his carpet looks like dog poop.

And telling the host his/her taste in beer sucks while sucking down large pints at the same time.

363 jim in virginia  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:52:43pm

re: #344 Walter L. Newton

OT - Is Charles going to put up a LOST thread? Season opener starts in 10 minutes here in Central time.
/


It's over here. Want to know what happens?

364 funky chicken  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:52:49pm

re: #313 Killgore Trout

I think he's probably unelectable. Too many scandals, ex-wives, affairs, etc. I think he's beyond qualified but I think his personal life is a problem.

Hey, Obama got elected. The whole concept of electability just flew out the window.

Of course Rudy's problem is winning the GOP primaries...and with a whole lot of GOP folks thinking creationists are just peachy but Rudy's some kind of pervert, well...

365 lawhawk  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:53:02pm

Oh, and it took a study to figure this out? Obama got 35 times the coverage that President Bush did.

366 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:53:09pm

re: #363 jim in virginia

It's over here. Want to know what happens?

BB later. NO!

367 jcm  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:53:30pm

re: #347 Occasional Reader

Good Lord. Next you jerks will be telling me to eat my vegetables.

Okay... sigh... I'm getting it out, and the Kleenbore kit.

It's such a pain to clean it after firing....

368 Occasional Reader  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:54:05pm

re: #352 OldLineTexan

And I guess the short version is that they did NOT kill an unarmed man, who promptly reported them to the Taliban.

Ah, sheesh.

I recall a story in... Atlantic Monthly?... from back in 2003 about a Special Forces forward recon team in Iraq that had a similar experience. Some goatherder stumbled on their spider hole; they declined to shoot him, he trotted off and told the Republican Guard; they had to be extracted under fire (but with no casualties in that instance, IIRC).

Make ya think.

369 albusteve  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:54:07pm

re: #359 Fat Jolly Penguin

Move it up. It's amazing.

done....and thanks for the advice amigos...gotta finish 'Alamo in the Ardennes' first...

370 jim in virginia  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:54:16pm

re: #347 Occasional Reader
Eat your vegetabes OR.
The broccoli too.

371 Kragar  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:54:23pm

re: #363 jim in virginia

It's over here. Want to know what happens?

It started with Jim talking about the episode and Kragar choking him to death.

372 Occasional Reader  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:54:38pm

re: #360 Vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret)

You...did...eat your vegetables, didn't you?

Is ham a vegetable?

373 Vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret)  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:54:50pm

re: #367 jcm

It's such a pain to clean it after firing....

[Video]

But worth every friggin' moment...

374 funky chicken  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:56:08pm

re: #326 albusteve

true and he obviously distains campaigning....he needs a more influential job somewhere...maybe in the media

OK, I saw Rudy up close at a campaign stop, and I have to agree with you. I was kinda shocked actually...he was obviously not interested in working the crowd much and seemed to just want to get out of there. There were a lot of Rudy fans there too. Maybe he should switch parties or something. The media would cover for that minor deficiency.

375 Logician  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:56:15pm

Two comments:

(1) The sticker claims that the textbook does not address certain issues. But those 'issues' all stem from simple misconceptions about evolution and science in general and are easy to address. Perhaps biology textbooks should address them.

(2) What proportion of students in any school are in the habit of reading parts of the textbook on which they are not going to be tested? A very small proportion. And of that small proportion, surely the vast majority are students who are actually interested in the subject and are therefore not going to fall for such double talk. So the sticker is essentially nothing more than a harmless source of amusement to its readers.

376 Vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret)  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:56:16pm

re: #372 Occasional Reader

Is ham a vegetable?

Last time I checked... no.

...and we can see you scraping your plate into that plant...

377 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:56:22pm

re: #344 Walter L. Newton

Just don't liveblog it. Those of us on the left coast don't want spoilers.

378 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:56:23pm

re: #339 albusteve

but sleep with it anyway....

Wouldn't that get, um, uncomfortable?

379 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:56:32pm

re: #367 jcm

I wonder what they use to clean one of the big punkin-chunkin air cannons after a pumpkin goes kablooey inside the tube.

380 Digital Display  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:56:32pm

re: #363 jim in virginia

It's over here. Want to know what happens?

I've never has watched Lost.. Someday when i am goofing off in Borders I'll buy the box set..
/although..It kind of looks dumb.. ouch! ouch! those downdings hurt..easy! ouch! Jeez...LOL

381 logboy  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:56:45pm

re: #271 Occasional Reader

LGF Poll: Should I clean my pistol tonight?

It's dirty. But I'm feeling lazy.

I'm playing with my brand spankin' new soon-to-be-illegal Bushmaster M4, and loading up my soon-to-be-illegal 30 round mags, with my soon-to-be-illegal .223 ammo.

382 Vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret)  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:57:12pm

re: #378 FurryOldGuyJeans

Wouldn't that get, um, uncomfortable?

Only if your name is Plaxico Burris.

383 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:57:12pm

re: #372 Occasional Reader

Is ham a vegetable?

No, you are NOT a vegetable.

384 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:57:36pm

re: #345 MandyManners

I honestly don't think the majority of them know about it.

Ignorance is not a good excuse, no matter what the subject is.

385 jaunte  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:57:39pm

re: #348 swamprat

I have never been to Spain,
So I don't care bout flamenco
Studyin' bio is a pain
Cambrian fossils dead as Franco
I don't believe it
I'll never need it
Don't need no genome
Just wanna stay home

386 [deleted]  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:57:51pm
387 bellamags  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:58:21pm

re: #380 HoosierHoops

Good evening Hoosier. How have you been doing?

388 Occasional Reader  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:58:28pm

re: #381 logboy

I'm playing with my brand spankin' new soon-to-be-illegal Bushmaster M4, and loading up my soon-to-be-illegal 30 round mags, with my soon-to-be-illegal .223 ammo.

I am sorely tempted to pick up something like that, the more I think about it.

389 Vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret)  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:58:31pm

re: #381 logboy

I'm playing with my brand spankin' new soon-to-be-illegal Bushmaster M4, and loading up my soon-to-be-illegal 30 round mags, with my soon-to-be-illegal .223 ammo.

Good man. Remember, those g-ddamn zombies aren't going to kill themselves...

390 Occasional Reader  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:58:59pm

re: #386 buzzsawmonkey

No. Nor is Shem or Japeth.

Those are the Three Stooges, right?

/

391 Digital Display  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:59:04pm

re: #380 HoosierHoops

I've never has watched Lost.. Someday when i am goofing off in Borders I'll buy the box set..
/although..It kind of looks dumb.. ouch! ouch! those downdings hurt..easy! ouch! Jeez...LOL

You gotta wonder.. If Goddess was here..How many red marks would be on my laptop screen? ok ok PIMF

392 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:59:07pm

re: #365 lawhawk

Oh, and it took a study to figure this out? Obama got 35 times the coverage that President Bush did.

The media "hoors " did the study on the job they did. Why not let the Mafia investigate Organized Crime?

393 albusteve  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:59:31pm

re: #378 FurryOldGuyJeans

Wouldn't that get, um, uncomfortable?

they do it in the movies!....my shotgun leans against my headboard btw...that wouldnt count tho

394 Ojoe  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:59:33pm

Ahem:

The religion with 2,000 years of experience chimes in:
Evolution and Catholicsm are compatible, the Pope says.

Pope Benedict has referred to the debate between creationists and supporters of evolutionary theory as an "absurdity":

"They are presented as alternatives that exclude each other," the pope said. "This clash is an absurdity because on one hand there is much scientific proof in favor of evolution, which appears as a reality that we must see and which enriches our understanding of life and being as such."
On the other hand, there are certain questions that evolutionary theory can never answer: "Above all it does not answer the great philosophical question, 'Where does everything come from?'" Christians, thus, can learn truth from science, but scientists must learn to accept the limits of their own work. No scientific investigation can ever prove that God does not exist, or that He did not create the world, or even that man is only the sum of his physical parts."

So there.

395 jcm  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:59:34pm

re: #379 pre-Boomer Marine brat

I wonder what they use to clean one of the big punkin-chunkin air cannons after a pumpkin goes kablooey inside the tube.

Whipped cream?

396 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 6:59:49pm

re: #364 funky chicken

There are different rules for Republicans. I think he has too many scandals but I'd vote for him in a heartbeat. You're right about not winning the primaries. That's a problem. I don't think it was from lack of trying or laziness on his part. The primary voters rejected him, he really flopped. I don't know if that's going to change. The Republican base is much more exited about Jindal and Palin.

397 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 7:00:05pm

re: #395 jcm

LOL!

398 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 7:00:12pm

re: #382 Vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret)

Only if your name is Plaxico Burris.

O_o

399 bellamags  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 7:00:13pm

re: #390 Occasional Reader

Those are the Three Stooges, right?

/

LOL

400 karmic_inquisitor  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 7:00:16pm

BTW -

Just heard one of the dark princes of hedge funds, former George Soros partner Jim Rogers, just thrash Obama and his economic team, and then he took Geithner outside for a chain whipping.

The only story on it so far is from the Beeb itself, which spared Obama and focused on Geithner.

Obama's economic team attacked

A well-known investor has attacked the record of President Obama's nominee for Treasury Secretary, Timothy Geithner.

Jim Rogers, a former partner of George Soros, told the BBC that the new administration was "run by people who caused the latest financial problems".

He said Mr Geithner and Larry Summers, due to head the National Economic Council, have been wrong for 15 years.

"These people don't know what they're doing," he said. Mr Rogers is seen as influential in financial markets.

401 outsidephilly  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 7:00:24pm

re: #380 HoosierHoops

I've never has watched Lost.. Someday when i am goofing off in Borders I'll buy the box set..
/although..It kind of looks dumb.. ouch! ouch! those downdings hurt..easy! ouch! Jeez...LOL

There'll be no dinging from me, I've never watched LOST, either . . . . , why would I want to watch a show about people who can't find their way home?

402 freetoken  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 7:00:31pm

re: #375 Logician

The sticker is likely aimed at the parents, not the children. That way, parents who concur with the sticker will feel better and be able to point to their children that they (the children) should not believe what the teacher says about evolution, if said teacher tries to state that evolution is the truth.

403 jim in virginia  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 7:00:34pm

re: #371 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

It started with Jim talking about the episode and Kragar choking him to death.


So this plane crashes. Weird things happen to the survivors. Six people finaly get rescued. The island vanishes. Then they have to go back.

I've never watched more than five minutes of it. It looks better than Survivor: Gabon or Dancing with the Stars.

404 albusteve  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 7:00:49pm

re: #380 HoosierHoops

I've never has watched Lost.. Someday when i am goofing off in Borders I'll buy the box set..
/although..It kind of looks dumb.. ouch! ouch! those downdings hurt..easy! ouch! Jeez...LOL

the commercials are pretty bad...I've never seen it either...I figure if it's good enough for KT I never will....

405 logboy  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 7:01:24pm

re: #388 Occasional Reader

I am sorely tempted to pick up something like that, the more I think about it.

If you can find one, BUY IT. They are incredibly hard to get/find. I got the last Bushmaster. Shop owner said his orders are 14 weeks out. In other words, they will be illegal before they arrive.

From Whitehouse.gov:

Address Gun Violence in Cities: Obama and Biden would repeal the Tiahrt Amendment, which restricts the ability of local law enforcement to access important gun trace information, and give police officers across the nation the tools they need to solve gun crimes and fight the illegal arms trade. Obama and Biden also favor commonsense measures that respect the Second Amendment rights of gun owners, while keeping guns away from children and from criminals. They support closing the gun show loophole and making guns in this country childproof. They also support making the expired federal Assault Weapons Ban permanent.

406 jcm  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 7:01:47pm

re: #381 logboy

I'm playing with my brand spankin' new soon-to-be-illegal Bushmaster M4, and loading up my soon-to-be-illegal 30 round mags, with my soon-to-be-illegal .223 ammo.

I got my soon to be illegal M1/M14 with flash suppresor, adjustable stock, pistol grip and 20rd mags. Having trouble finding .308 to stock up on.

407 [deleted]  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 7:02:22pm
408 reine.de.tout  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 7:02:28pm

re: #354 albusteve

I have a sizable stack to go thru but if it's a good shooter maybe I'll move it up

It is well worth putting off other things to read.

409 Mich-again  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 7:02:51pm

Here is a site pretty much devoted to exposing creationist creep in our schools. The Sensuous Curmudgeon I found it by searching for creationist bills in Michigan and found out at that site just last year a bill died in the MI Senate committee.

410 albusteve  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 7:03:07pm

re: #396 Killgore Trout

There are different rules for Republicans. I think he has too many scandals but I'd vote for him in a heartbeat. You're right about not winning the primaries. That's a problem. I don't think it was from lack of trying or laziness on his part. The primary voters rejected him, he really flopped. I don't know if that's going to change. The Republican base is much more exited about Jindal and Palin.

Newt is problematic too....these guys are giants compared to Jindal...talk about disarray

411 jaunte  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 7:03:30pm

re: #405 logboy

They're doing so well in the fight against illegal drugs, illegal immigration, and illegal human trafficking, why not load on another prohibition to deal with.
Maybe I should capitalize Prohibition.

412 freetoken  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 7:03:47pm

re: #396 Killgore Trout

I don't know if that's going to change.

It won't. I can't prove that to you, but as someone who thought highly of Rudy (and still do) I was quite disappointed to see how cold his reception was in many parts of Republican party. It's not that he just can't win the hearts of the social conservatives - he actually is repulsive to them.

413 Kragar  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 7:03:54pm

re: #403 jim in virginia

So this plane crashes. Weird things happen to the survivors. Six people finaly get rescued. The island vanishes. Then they have to go back.

I've never watched more than five minutes of it. It looks better than Survivor: Gabon or Dancing with the Stars.

YOU RUINED IT!

414 Digital Display  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 7:03:54pm

re: #387 bellamags

Good evening Hoosier. How have you been doing?

(Bella} So nice seeing you..things are going just great! With our Son serving his last deployment in Japan I live in a very very happy household!
You could elect a socialist as the POTUS and I'd still be happy..no wait..I didn't mean that..LOL
Kind regards Bella

415 Vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret)  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 7:04:26pm

re: #407 taxfreekiller

We need a real Conservative Party...

416 jim in virginia  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 7:04:31pm

re: #401 outsidephilly
outsidephilly- hows it going?
Where you at?

417 Ojoe  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 7:04:38pm

re: #407 taxfreekiller

Right. Let's start up the economy so's you all can have more money by taxing away some money from you all, and spending it, so you can work to get your money back, so you will have money."

418 outsidephilly  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 7:04:44pm

re: #405 logboy


Hi there, logboy! You doing okay?

419 funky chicken  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 7:04:45pm

re: #400 karmic_inquisitor

hmmmmm Soros sending out a lackey to try to crash things?

420 bellamags  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 7:04:58pm

re: #414 HoosierHoops

sweetie.

421 albusteve  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 7:05:02pm

re: #406 jcm

I got my soon to be illegal M1/M14 with flash suppresor, adjustable stock, pistol grip and 20rd mags. Having trouble finding .308 to stock up on.

you guys are givin me a stiffy....

422 logboy  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 7:05:45pm

re: #406 jcm

I got my soon to be illegal M1/M14 with flash suppresor, adjustable stock, pistol grip and 20rd mags. Having trouble finding .308 to stock up on.

You mean cheap .308 ammo? I try to by a box when they're on sale so I can run them through my Browning .308.

[Link: www.sportsmansguide.com...]

423 outsidephilly  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 7:05:46pm

re: #416 jim in virginia

outsidephilly- hows it going?
Where you at?

Springfield

424 outsidephilly  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 7:06:16pm

re: #414 HoosierHoops

(Bella} So nice seeing you..things are going just great! With our Son serving his last deployment in Japan I live in a very very happy household!
You could elect a socialist as the POTUS and I'd still be happy..no wait..I didn't mean that..LOL
Kind regards Bella

How much longer will he be in Japan?

425 albusteve  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 7:06:38pm

re: #408 reine.de.tout

It is well worth putting off other things to read.

next up...thanks for the push

426 logboy  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 7:06:43pm

re: #418 outsidephilly

Hi there, logboy! You doing okay?

Other than the election and the f-cking VA, yes.

427 jim in virginia  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 7:06:46pm

re: #413 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

YOU RUINED IT!


My work here is done....

428 jcm  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 7:07:04pm

re: #405 logboy

From Whitehouse.gov:

ddress Gun Violence in Cities: Obama and Biden would repeal the Tiahrt Amendment, which restricts the ability of local law enforcement to access important gun trace information, and give police officers across the nation the tools they need to solve gun crimes and fight the illegal arms trade. Obama and Biden also favor commonsense measures that respect the Second Amendment rights of gun owners, while keeping guns away from children and from criminals. They support closing the gun show loophole and making guns in this country childproof. They also support making the expired federal Assault Weapons Ban permanent.

Five gallon buckets are more dangerous to children under five.
The gun show loop hole is a myth. In WA they tried that, one smart state legislature ask the AG to find crimes committed with gun show guns. In committee hearings the AG report in the past ten years exactly ZERO gun show guns had been involved in a crimes.
Assault Weapons Ban is based on cosmetic aspects of weapon. Flash suppressors, pistol grips, adjustable stocks....

Standby for ammo taxes. The OSHA reclassification of ammo, and any other "common sense" restriction they can think of.

429 outsidephilly  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 7:07:34pm

re: #426 logboy

Other than the election and the f-cking VA, yes.

The VA has you in a 'choke-hold', aye? It isn't easy for you, is it?

430 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 7:07:51pm

re: #406 jcm

I got my soon to be illegal M1/M14 with flash suppresor, adjustable stock, pistol grip and 20rd mags. Having trouble finding .308 to stock up on.

I'd like to get a soon-to-be-much-feared-on-the-freeway PzKw V (Panther).

431 beermeister  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 7:08:02pm

I've donated money to various cancer research organizations and The Planetary Society and I support a Mars mission. I've been conservative my whole life and think teaching not only creationism but any type of religion, even in a social studies class setting, in a K-12 public school is unconstitutional. But, I still get downdinged for a pragmatic post. Unbelievable.

432 Digital Display  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 7:09:35pm

re: #401 outsidephilly

There'll be no dinging from me, I've never watched LOST, either . . . . , why would I want to watch a show about people who can't find their way home?

And if I got stuck on an Island with Mary-Ann or Ginger...Who really tries to get home? Sorry girls..the batteries died on the two way radio..The good news is the Giants won in extra innings..
The Rich guy and his wife stays but the professor and the skipper are dead meat..LOL

433 outsidephilly  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 7:11:03pm

re: #432 HoosierHoops

And if I got stuck on an Island with Mary-Ann or Ginger...Who really tries to get home? Sorry girls..the batteries died on the two way radio..The good news is the Giants won in extra innings..
The Rich guy and his wife stays but the professor and the skipper are dead meat..LOL

The professor was lame, anyway . . . , WAY TO GO, Giants!

434 nyc redneck  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 7:11:10pm

i'm wondering if this dumbing down of the sciences, is going to deter qualified people from becoming teachers.
which is already happening anyway.
gov't workers w/ a creationist agenda do not make for a sound education in the sciences.

435 Sharmuta  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 7:11:45pm

re: #375 Logician

No- it's NOT harmless, it's a violation of our Constitution.

436 jcm  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 7:11:48pm
437 logboy  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 7:13:12pm

re: #429 outsidephilly

The VA has you in a 'choke-hold', aye? It isn't easy for you, is it?

No, they're just a bunch of incompetant pricks. I got a phone call recently asking me why I didn't show up to my appointments in November. You know, the appointments they never ever f-cking told me about. No letter, no call, no notice, no nothing. I was calling for MONTHS trying to schedule those appointments and they kept telling me "someone will contact you soon". Then they make the appointments without telling me.

438 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 7:13:59pm

re: #436 jcm

OT

We now know what downed FL1549 into the Hudson River.

Aren't they wearing turbans?!
This was Sudden Jihad Syndrome!

439 Digital Display  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 7:14:26pm

re: #424 outsidephilly

How much longer will he be in Japan?

7 months.. the 3/5th Marines were scheduled to go to Afghanistan but were redeployed right after thanksgiving...The screaming was deafening..like we just won the Superbowl on a last second crazy play..except louder...

440 Sharmuta  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 7:15:20pm

re: #409 Mich-again

Here is a site pretty much devoted to exposing creationist creep in our schools. The Sensuous Curmudgeon I found it by searching for creationist bills in Michigan and found out at that site just last year a bill died in the MI Senate committee.

Thanks- I book marked that site.

441 Logician  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 7:16:46pm

re: #402 freetoken

The sticker is likely aimed at the parents, not the children. That way, parents who concur with the sticker will feel better and be able to point to their children that they (the children) should not believe what the teacher says about evolution, if said teacher tries to state that evolution is the truth.

Good point. But even so, parents who care that much will surely tell the children this whether the sticker is there or not. So we're only worrying about the cases where, in terms of credibility,

Teacher+Textbook > Parents, but

Teacher+Textbook < Parents+Sticker.

Surely that's unlikely to be very many cases, if any. Especially if the sticker is contradicted in the textbook.

442 outsidephilly  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 7:16:47pm

re: #437 logboy

No, they're just a bunch of incompetant pricks. I got a phone call recently asking me why I didn't show up to my appointments in November. You know, the appointments they never ever f-cking told me about. No letter, no call, no notice, no nothing. I was calling for MONTHS trying to schedule those appointments and they kept telling me "someone will contact you soon". Then they make the appointments without telling me.

That MO is used at U of P, also! I hear ya, yet, what did you do? Did you resolve the matter, is it even resolvable?

443 Mich-again  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 7:17:05pm

re: #415 Vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret)

We need a real Conservative Party...

The word Conservative doesn't mean anything anymore. Neither does the word Liberal. Twisted beyond all recognition.

Bring back the Whigs!

444 Ojoe  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 7:17:38pm

re: #443 Mich-again

Abraham Lincoln started out as a Whig.

445 jaunte  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 7:17:41pm

re: #440 Sharmuta

The Curmudgeon has written a great collection of essays there.

446 beermeister  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 7:17:49pm

re: #405 logboy

If you can find one, BUY IT. They are incredibly hard to get/find. I got the last Bushmaster. Shop owner said his orders are 14 weeks out. In other words, they will be illegal before they arrive.

From Whitehouse.gov:

Address Gun Violence in Cities: Obama and Biden would repeal the Tiahrt Amendment, which restricts the ability of local law enforcement to access important gun trace information, and give police officers across the nation the tools they need to solve gun crimes and fight the illegal arms trade. Obama and Biden also favor commonsense measures that respect the Second Amendment rights of gun owners, while keeping guns away from children and from criminals. They support closing the gun show loophole and making guns in this country childproof. They also support making the expired federal Assault Weapons Ban permanent.

Commies really hate it when law abiding citizens have guns. What the fook is childproof? Assault Weapons Ban? They're not machine guns, are they? I support a background check at gun shows. That's it. No trigger lock or handprint or fingerprint bullshit. No new AWB. No new taxes or fees or ammo bans. Some asshat from Illinois has a draconian bill out there. Even requires fingerprints. Unconstitutional with respect to at least two and maybe three amendments.

We have a right to protect ourselves, families, homes, land, businesses from criminals, tyrants and even foreign intruders. The Mexico situation is a little scary. If I was in Texas, I'd want to be able to protect myself without relying on others.

447 Sharmuta  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 7:18:04pm

re: #441 Logician

Similar stickers have been declared unconstitutional by a number of courts- they can't do this in a public school.

448 outsidephilly  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 7:18:08pm

re: #439 HoosierHoops

7 months.. the 3/5th Marines were scheduled to go to Afghanistan but were redeployed right after thanksgiving...The screaming was deafening..like we just won the Superbowl on a last second crazy play..except louder...

Do you get to talk to him via internet?

449 OldLineTexan  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 7:20:37pm

re: #388 Occasional Reader

I am sorely tempted to pick up something like that, the more I think about it.

Prices have already gone way up.

450 Mich-again  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 7:21:22pm

re: #445 jaunte

The Curmudgeon has written a great collection of essays there.

The Curmudgeon is dialed in!

451 Logician  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 7:22:13pm

re: #447 Sharmuta

Similar stickers have been declared unconstitutional by a number of courts- they can't do this in a public school.

Sure. So it's a matter of principle. But arguing against the sticker as a matter of principle is different from arguing that it does any significant harm to children's education.

452 logboy  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 7:22:26pm

re: #446 beermeister

I'm stockpiling .223 ammo with as much $ as I can afford until its illegal.

453 Digital Display  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 7:24:40pm

re: #448 outsidephilly

Do you get to talk to him via internet?

All of us..Mom and Dad, brothers and sisters talk on AIM with him..We send lots of calling cards...A call at 3am from Fallujah gets the family lined up in the kitchen in PJ's to talk to our Son.. The stress is f'n intense.. A call at 4am from Tokyo may end up in Voicemail or get answered...And what a great feeling it is...He wants to be a cop when he gets out.. I'm thinking no more speeding tickets.

454 Mich-again  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 7:24:42pm

re: #444 Ojoe

Abraham Lincoln started out as a Whig.

[channelling Johnny Carson] I did not know that.

455 beermeister  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 7:27:09pm

How about a disclaimer on history books instead of science books. It would go something like this:

Many of these so-called history books are revisionist and convey the liberal biases of their authors. For example, this liberal revisionism creep has its beginnings in the writings of Sir Edward Gibbon or earlier. Crusades revisionism will always blame the Church, but will not mention the transgressions of Islam that preceded it incessantly for 300 years. The renaissance and modern civilization was partly funded by the largesse of the Catholic Church and rich nobles from Italy. Marxism and Communism is responsible for tens of millions of deaths. Hamas should be considered a terrorist organization. In the Twentieth Century, there was not only a Jewish Holocaust, but also an Armenian Genocide. The United States of America is the greatest country and Western Civilization is the greatest culture, contrary to what liberal moral relativists say.

456 outsidephilly  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 7:27:47pm

re: #453 HoosierHoops

All of us..Mom and Dad, brothers and sisters talk on AIM with him..We send lots of calling cards...A call at 3am from Fallujah gets the family lined up in the kitchen in PJ's to talk to our Son.. The stress is f'n intense.. A call at 4am from Tokyo may end up in Voicemail or get answered...And what a great feeling it is...He wants to be a cop when he gets out.. I'm thinking no more speeding tickets.

A cop? That's wonderful! We need well disciplined law enforcers in our mist! My son is a cop, police officer. Yep, its a rewarding profession for the officer, as well as, the family!

457 Sharmuta  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 7:29:11pm

re: #451 Logician

It does do harm to their education in a couple of ways. First- this is going to be fought in court and that's money that our schools can ill afford to spend outside the classrooms. Second- creationism and ID are not science and teaching children pseudo-science is indeed harmful to their education.

458 unakite  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 7:31:04pm

re: #5 jcm

I have a theory; Gary Chism is a scientific ignoramus.

Is that another way of saying he's a "smartass?"

459 Throbert McGee  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 7:32:26pm

re: #7 Guanxi88

Look, ain't nobody likely to give up on this madness anytime soon. It's just the way of the world, I fear. Since education has become politicized, it is unavoidable.

I would say, rather, that it just goes with the territory of having public education that's funded by tax dollars -- taxpayers who feel sufficiently offended by something in the curriculum are going to raise a stink, and how could it really be any other way?

The YEC Christians certainly aren't the only special-interest groups trying to get radical agendas into public-school curricula. For instance, gay advocates used to complain with some justification that sex-ed programs totally ignored the specific difficulties (and even the very existence) of homosexual adolescents. Now, at least in some school districts, that pendulum has swung too far in the other direction, with "value-neutral", graphic discussions of incredibly dubious sex practices being snuck in under the guise of "helping empower teens to make wiser decisions." But I don't think this is necessarily because gay radicals are pushier, more duplicitous, or (overall) more radical than YEC fundamentalists; only that the gays have at times been more successful at getting the camel's nose into the tent.

460 beermeister  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 7:37:59pm

re: #459 Throbert McGee

I would say, rather, that it just goes with the territory of having public education that's funded by tax dollars -- taxpayers who feel sufficiently offended by something in the curriculum are going to raise a stink, and how could it really be any other way?

The YEC Christians certainly aren't the only special-interest groups trying to get radical agendas into public-school curricula. For instance, gay advocates used to complain with some justification that sex-ed programs totally ignored the specific difficulties (and even the very existence) of homosexual adolescents. Now, at least in some school districts, that pendulum has swung too far in the other direction, with "value-neutral", graphic discussions of incredibly dubious sex practices being snuck in under the guise of "helping empower teens to make wiser decisions." But I don't think this is necessarily because gay radicals are pushier, more duplicitous, or (overall) more radical than YEC fundamentalists; only that the gays have at times been more successful at getting the camel's nose into the tent.

They need to indoctrinate and recruit children, they can't procreate. Perverse fuckers.

461 unakite  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 7:38:39pm

re: #166 ArmyWife

wait, wait, wait. I don't agree with creationists, but I can look at their views and understand how they get there(misguided as they may be). But this?

Didn't Galileo solve that little mystery for us in the 1600s?

I just jumped in and I apologize if this has already been discussed, but where did this come from?

462 Throbert McGee  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 7:44:01pm

re: #375 Logician

(1) The sticker claims that the textbook does not address certain issues. But those 'issues' all stem from simple misconceptions about evolution and science in general and are easy to address. Perhaps biology textbooks should address them.

Biology textbooks already do address, at length, such issues as the incompleteness of the fossil record. But textbooks do not draw the inference that Creationists would prefer to see drawn -- namely that because the fossil record is incomplete, evolutionary theory must amount to little more than fanciful speculation, and YEC deserves "equal time" in schools.

463 unakite  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 7:47:41pm

re: #168 Fat Jolly Penguin

It's near the bottom of the page. The site doesn't show any references, but given this guy's a complete nutbar, it seems likely. There are many more in the Google search I linked.

Just skimmed this, but if I got the gist he(she?) seem to argue that if they jump up (a rocket launch is just a big, rocket-assisted jump), then they won't be able to keep up with the earth (you know, no-retro rockets and all), and the earth will just zip off and leave them behind. They seem to not know, or ignore, that the earth and the moon (and the rest of the solar system) are gravitationally attracted to each other.

464 Charles Johnson  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 7:48:59pm

re: #460 beermeister

They need to indoctrinate and recruit children, they can't procreate. Perverse fuckers.

And there it is -- the bigotry that underlies so much creationist hooey. With that ugly, revealing comment, I bid you adieu.

465 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 7:50:32pm

So.... what if a group of scientists tried to push through legislation in various states that mandated disclaimer stickers be put in every bible?

466 freetoken  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 8:06:20pm

re: #441 Logician

You missed the point. It is not the children who need the reaffirmation of their creationist beliefs (since they probably have none until it is taught to them.)

It is the parents who are looking for affirmation in their belief to reject evolution.

467 quickjustice  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 8:09:29pm

re: #300 FurryOldGuyJeans

The 2010 Democratic ticket in NY.

468 Charles Johnson  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 8:09:30pm

re: #466 freetoken

You missed the point. It is not the children who need the reaffirmation of their creationist beliefs (since they probably have none until it is taught to them.)

It is the parents who are looking for affirmation in their belief to reject evolution.

It's worse than that. The parents who promote this crap are trying to force their atavistic beliefs on other people's children. This is an important point that cannot be stressed enough.

469 Throbert McGee  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 8:22:36pm

re: #460 beermeister

They need to indoctrinate and recruit children, they can't procreate. Perverse fuckers.

I agree that GBLTQ "activists" shouldn't indoctrinate and recruit healthy, well-balanced, mainstream-assimilated homosexual teens into a lifestyle of Queer Identity Politics.

But if beermeister's "perverse fuckers" was a reference to homosexuals in general, why on earth would they need to "indoctrinate and recruit" children? Contrary to the totally delusional beliefs of some religious ignuts who think that people turn homo as a tragic side-effect of not praying enough (based, for example, on a literalist reading of Romans 1:22-27), the realities are:

(a) Nearly every homosexual in the world was raised by heterosexual parents;
(b) although the causes of sexual orientation aren't understood, homosexual kids seem to pop up in devoutly religious households at about the same rate as in moderately religious and secular households; and
(c) some individuals become aware of significant same-sex attractions as early as puberty, before they've had any sexual experience and before they've socialized with any homosexuals, whether adults or age peers.

Expanding on point (c) a bit -- it was long a ubiquitous theme in "gay memoirs" to talk about what it was like to be 14 years old and believe "I must be the only 14-year-old in the entire world who has homosexual feelings," despite possibly having some awareness of freakish middle-aged queens from seeing them on the news. Of course, this was before "Gay teen couples go to junior prom" became a dog-bites-man story.

470 freedombilly  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 8:26:36pm

What is it with these people trying to redefine words? Do they think we are that stupid? Some troll a week and a half ago tried to tell me on one of these threads that the definition of science was "the study of"!

When your arguments resort to redefining easily definable words you should maybe rethink your position. Classic "moving of the goal posts" when debating a liberal and yet this shit comes from right wingers.

Scary stuff indeed. Charles, keep it coming! I ain't hearing about this stuff in the New York Times.

471 freedombilly  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 8:28:32pm

re: #460 beermeister

And goodnight beermeister.

472 SFGoth  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 8:30:31pm

re: #152 logboy

/Come on, we all know Spielberg filmed that.

Nah, more of a Kubrick type of feel. Now if Ed Wood had filmed it!

473 SFGoth  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 8:31:53pm

re: #203 HoosierHoops

Not until we can prove that Dark energy is not involved..Cause that changes everything

Nahhh, that would be dark bourbon.

474 stretch  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 8:33:44pm

re: #468 Charles

It's worse than that. The parents who promote this crap are trying to force their atavistic beliefs on other people's children. This is an important point.

I think that that goes both ways - public school is all about secularists using taxpayer funds to force their beliefs on other people's children. They start squealing whenever somebody pushes into their turf.

I've said before that it is pointless for ID to be taught in the public school. But then again, there's so much info for the asking on the net (and so many teenagers willing to challenge the status quo) that science teachers are already facing a tough road in just trying to push the same old evolutionist dogma.

475 jaunte  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 8:40:47pm

re: #474 stretch

"public school is all about secularists using taxpayer funds to force their beliefs on other people's children."

Do you have evidence of this, or just a bare assertion?

476 Mich-again  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 8:41:30pm

re: #474 stretch

The creationist bill that died in the Michigan Senate last year was clever enough to link the doubts about evolution to the doubts about global warming in one big "maybe all those scientists aren't so smart overall" package.

477 Basho  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 8:42:47pm

re: #475 jaunte

Grrr I hate those secular beliefs they are forcing on children. Curse their beliefs of or pertaining to worldly things or to things that are not regarded as religious, spiritual, or sacred!

478 Charles Johnson  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 8:43:06pm

re: #475 jaunte

"public school is all about secularists using taxpayer funds to force their beliefs on other people's children."

Do you have evidence of this, or just a bare assertion?

"stretch" is a young earth creationist, and he will say anything to promote the cause. He specializes in these tedious, lame attempts to "turn the tables."

479 Mich-again  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 8:43:25pm

re: #474 stretch

But then again, there's so much info Bullshit for the asking on the net (and so many teenagers willing to challenge the status quo) that science teachers are already facing a tough road in just trying to push the same old evolutionist dogma.

Fixed it!

480 Sharmuta  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 8:44:47pm

re: #477 Basho

Grrr I hate those secular beliefs they are forcing on children. Curse their beliefs of or pertaining to worldly things or to things that are not regarded as religious, spiritual, or sacred!

Indeed- those awful secularist beliefs, like the First Amendment.

481 stretch  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 8:44:48pm

re: #475 jaunte

"public school is all about secularists using taxpayer funds to force their beliefs on other people's children."

Do you have evidence of this, or just a bare assertion?

Excellent question. Charles, do you have any evidence that ID supporters are using taxpayer funds to force their beliefs on other people's children?

482 jaunte  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 8:45:38pm

re: #481 stretch

I asked you, stretch. Where's the evidence of your statement?

483 stretch  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 8:48:55pm

I just don't see teenagers putting up with the same "just so" stories that I endured. My teens can talk circles around any public school slouch. Public schoolers are much more detached, much more skeptical these days. You want to say that life started on its own, straight out of the muck, without any direct observations? Go for it. You want to say that one species can change into another, without any direct observations? Don't ask anybody to swallow that one whole.

484 jaunte  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 8:50:43pm

re: #483 stretch

Not relevant. Now you're starting to babble. Where's the evidence that proves your assertion?

485 stretch  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 8:51:02pm

re: #482 jaunte

I asked you, stretch. Where's the evidence of your statement?

I'll give Charles a chance - he must be doing some research now.

486 jaunte  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 8:51:59pm

re: #485 stretch

You have nothing, so must deflect.

487 Achilles Tang  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 8:52:23pm

Wow, 3 hours of LOST is a bit much, but I have to have something to discuss with my wife; so that is my excuse for being late again.

I do see that Strech is here, also punting the lies in the OP, namely that Evolution is about Origins.

488 Basho  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 8:54:04pm

re: #474 stretch

But then again, there's so much info for the asking on the net (and so many teenagers willing to challenge the status quo) that science teachers are already facing a tough road in just trying to push the same old evolutionist dogma.

lol
I have this picture in my head of this rebellious teenager (the Fonz in my case) raising his hand in biology class and asking the old, clumsy, out-of-touch teacher "If evolution is true, then why does it violate the second law of thermodynamics?" Then the teacher drops his monocle into his tea, shakes his fist in the air and says "Curse you, you wise-alecky youth! How did you discover this?" "Haha, didn't you hear of the internet? Aye!"

489 Charles Johnson  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 8:55:37pm

re: #485 stretch

I'll give Charles a chance - he must be doing some research now.

I don't jump at the beck and call of creationists, sorry. Your tactics are obvious to everyone here.

490 Sharmuta  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 8:56:34pm

re: #481 stretch

Excellent question. Charles, do you have any evidence that ID supporters are using taxpayer funds to force their beliefs on other people's children?

When a school district like Dover puts a disclaimer on their biology books, then that's tax payer money being spent on the stickers, tax payer money paying the teacher to recite it, tax payer money being used to defend it in court, and tax payer money being used to operate the court room.

And all of this tax payer money is being wasted because the disclaimer will go down in flames as unconstitutional.

491 stretch  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 8:56:44pm

re: #486 jaunte

You have nothing, so must deflect.

Back it up a moment Jaunte - Charles made the same statement first - you ask him for evidence of what he said. Then come talk to me.

492 jaunte  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 8:57:24pm

Taxpayer funds have to be used by school districts when the boards are tricked into a position of violating the first amendment, and are successfully sued, as they were in Dover, PA. The expert witnesses from the losing side were paid out of the public pocket.

493 freedombilly  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 8:59:03pm

re: #491 stretch

Back it up a moment Jaunte - Charles made the same statement first - you ask him for evidence of what he said. Then come talk to me.

The evidence of what Charles is saying is called science. WHAT THE HELL AM I MISSING?

494 freedombilly  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 8:59:26pm

re: #493 freedombilly

(Sorry for the cyber shouting)

495 stretch  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 9:00:29pm

re: #490 Sharmuta

When a school district like Dover puts a disclaimer on their biology books, then that's tax payer money being spent on the stickers, tax payer money paying the teacher to recite it, tax payer money being used to defend it in court, and tax payer money being used to operate the court room.

And all of this tax payer money is being wasted because the disclaimer will go down in flames as unconstitutional.

No, the waste of money is demanding that courts decide the course of science. Schools are about the parents, students and teachers - if that's what the majority of the parents want, and that's what the majority of the school commissioners want, then accommodations can be made for the minority. But one 'offended' student (plus the ACLU) shouldn't be allowed to break the budget, and force everyone else to acquiesce.

496 freetoken  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 9:00:49pm

re: #485 stretch

Dude... your karma is down to -1293.... If I were you, I'd be afraid I'd be reincarnated as an... evolutionist!

497 Sharmuta  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 9:01:40pm

re: #495 stretch

No, the waste of money is demanding that courts decide the course of science.

Funny, because if the creationists were not pushing their agenda, it wouldn't be in the courts.

498 freedombilly  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 9:02:28pm

re: #497 Sharmuta

Funny, because if the creationists were not pushing their agenda, it wouldn't be in the courts.

DING DING DING DING DING!

499 stretch  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 9:02:28pm

re: #493 freedombilly

The evidence of what Charles is saying is called science. WHAT THE HELL AM I MISSING?

Perhaps falsifiability (which evolution is not capable of)?

500 fredo malmstein  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 9:02:51pm

re: #485 stretch

Oh, yes. We all jump to attention when douchenozzles like you start to chum.

501 Sharmuta  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 9:03:31pm

re: #499 stretch

That is simply not true.

502 Basho  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 9:03:59pm

re: #499 stretch

Perhaps falsifiability (which evolution is not capable of)?

Find an elephant skeleton that dates 65 million years. There you go.

503 Achilles Tang  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 9:04:16pm

re: #481 stretch

Excellent question. Charles, do you have any evidence that ID supporters are using taxpayer funds to force their beliefs on other people's children?

They would if they could, and they do indirectly by forcing the legal defense of knowledge, with taxpayer funds, against ignorance and deceit.

504 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 9:04:17pm

re: #490 Sharmuta

When a school district like Dover puts a disclaimer on their biology books, then that's tax payer money being spent on the stickers, tax payer money paying the teacher to recite it, tax payer money being used to defend it in court, and tax payer money being used to operate the court room.

And all of this tax payer money is being wasted because the disclaimer will go down in flames as unconstitutional.

But naughty children can be made to scrape the stickers off in detention, so that's a plus.

505 Basho  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 9:05:12pm

re: #504 SanFranciscoZionist

But naughty children can be made to scrape the stickers off in detention, so that's a plus.

When life gives you lemons, make lemonade...

506 stretch  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 9:05:45pm

re: #497 Sharmuta

Funny, because if the creationists were not pushing their agenda, it wouldn't be in the courts.

That is just not true - the individual school districts decide what they want in their textbooks (stickers or not). It has always been a few individuals, or even just one, who demand that the courts then step in and force their will on the majority - and that's where all the money goes.

507 Syrah  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 9:05:46pm

An alternative disclaimer that the Mississippi State Legislature should seriously consider.

In the beginning, the Universe was created.

This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.

Many races believe that it was created by some sort of God, though the Jatravartid people of Viltvodle VI believe that the entire Universe was in fact sneezed out of the nose of a being called the Great Green Arkleseizure.

The Jatravartids, who live in perpetual fear of the time they call The Coming of The Great White Handkerchief, are small blue creatures with more than fifty arms each, who are therefore unique in being the only race in history to have invented the aerosol deodorant before the wheel.

Douglass Addams - The Restaurant at the End of the Universe

508 Basho  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 9:07:01pm

re: #506 stretch

Curse those courts for upholding the Constitution!

509 stretch  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 9:07:50pm

re: #502 Basho

Find an elephant skeleton that dates 65 million years. There you go.

Not even close. There's just no way to look at a skeleton (or a fossil for that matter) and conclude that one of its distant ancestors was genetically divergent.

510 jaunte  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 9:08:29pm

re: #499 stretch

Perhaps falsifiability (which evolution is not capable of)?

The recent hoax of a human footprint in a dinosaur track from Texas is evidence that some creationists understand what kind of evidence would falsify evolutionary theory, and aren't above trying to fake it.

511 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 9:08:46pm

re: #506 stretch

That is just not true - the individual school districts decide what they want in their textbooks (stickers or not). It has always been a few individuals, or even just one, who demand that the courts then step in and force their will on the majority - and that's where all the money goes.

Have you ever heard of state teaching standards?

512 Basho  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 9:09:11pm

re: #509 stretch

Not even close. There's just no way to look at a skeleton (or a fossil for that matter) and conclude that one of its distant ancestors was genetically divergent.

Who cares? Just find an elephant skeleton and date it to 65 million years.

513 Sharmuta  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 9:09:16pm

re: #506 stretch

The school district is not above the law. If they violate the Constitution, they will be challenged.

Also- the Constitution was designed to protect the minority from the tyranny of the majority, so it matters not if the majority wants to push a religious agenda into the public schools- the Constitution says they can't violate the rights of the minority.

514 Achilles Tang  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 9:11:39pm

re: #502 Basho

Find an elephant skeleton that dates 65 million years. There you go.

Not so I'm afraid. It would however suggest time travel (I just finished 3 hours of LOST, remember).

On the other hand finding a 65 million year old elephant skeleton on Mars would be food for thought.

515 Basho  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 9:12:40pm

re: #514 Naso Tang

Didn't see the first hour (the recap part). Saw the 2nd hour and didn't like it. The 3rd hour was great though =)

516 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 9:13:01pm

re: #514 Naso Tang

Not so I'm afraid. It would however suggest time travel (I just finished 3 hours of LOST, remember).

On the other hand finding a 65 million year old elephant skeleton on Mars would be food for thought.

Hold it. Time-travelling, space-faring elephants?

517 stretch  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 9:13:03pm

re: #510 jaunte

The recent hoax of a human footprint in a dinosaur track from Texas is evidence that some creationists understand what kind of evidence would falsify evolutionary theory, and aren't above trying to fake it.

I agree that the human footprint was a hoax, but falsifiability is something that the evolutionists have to come up with on their own, otherwise they cannot claim that their theory is backed by the 'scientific method'.

518 jainphx  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 9:13:53pm

re: #513 Sharmuta

I have no intension of joining the argument, but I must ask you a question. Are you saying the constitution allows the minority to violate the rights of the majority?

519 Erik The Red  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 9:14:11pm

re: #506 stretch

That is just not true - the individual school districts decide what they want in their textbooks (stickers or not). It has always been a few individuals, or even just one, who demand that the courts then step in and force their will on the majority - and that's where all the money goes.

Morning Lizards. Late to the bbq today. Question stretch. You must enjoy having your ass handed to you an these threads. I don't know what you are trying to achieve here, except going for the all time low karma record.

You are not here to improve you knowledge and you will not change anyone's mind here. Why bother?

520 jaunte  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 9:14:34pm

re: #517 stretch

I'm sorry, but that is so ignorant it makes everyone's head hurt a bit.

521 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 9:15:30pm

re: #518 jainphx

I have no intension of joining the argument, but I must ask you a question. Are you saying the constitution allows the minority to violate the rights of the majority?

"Getting what you want" is not a Constitutional right.

522 Sharmuta  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 9:15:49pm

re: #517 stretch

No- you're wrong! Human Chromosome 2 tested the theory of evolution.

523 Syrah  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 9:16:02pm

re: #518 jainphx

I have no intension of joining the argument, but I must ask you a question. Are you saying the constitution allows the minority to violate the rights of the majority?

I don't see how you got that from what Sharmuta wrote.

524 Sharmuta  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 9:16:31pm

re: #518 jainphx

Of course I'm not saying that.

525 freedombilly  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 9:17:36pm

re: #518 jainphx

I have no intension of joining the argument, but I must ask you a question. Are you saying the constitution allows the minority to violate the rights of the majority?

I also have no idea how you could take that away from what Sharmuta said.

526 Achilles Tang  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 9:17:45pm

re: #516 SanFranciscoZionist

Hold it. Time-travelling, space-faring elephants?

I'm trying to get into the creationist mindset here. IE Come up with a hypothesis, then look for all lack of evidence that DOESN'T disprove it.

Stretch really should throw out the bible and pick up The Hitchhikers Guide; it has a much better answer. 42.

Good night.

527 jaunte  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 9:18:00pm

re: #518 jainphx

Maintaining neutrality on religious matters in science classes is not a case of the minority violating the rights of the majority.

528 stretch  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 9:18:03pm

re: #519 Erik The Red

Morning Lizards. Late to the bbq today. Question stretch. You must enjoy having your ass handed to you an these threads. I don't know what you are trying to achieve here, except going for the all time low karma record.

You are not here to improve you knowledge and you will not change anyone's mind here. Why bother?

Well, I have learned quite a bit here on this blog. And I have no concern for 'karma'.

529 jainphx  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 9:18:09pm

re: #521 SanFranciscoZionist

No it was stated that the constitution keeps the majority from violating the rights of the minority, isn't that making the minority have more rights than the majority?

530 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 9:18:49pm

re: #526 Naso Tang

I'm trying to get into the creationist mindset here. IE Come up with a hypothesis, then look for all lack of evidence that DOESN'T disprove it.

Stretch really should throw out the bible and pick up The Hitchhikers Guide; it has a much better answer. 42.

Good night.

I just imagine the elephants loping through the void, with their ears gently rippling...

531 Achilles Tang  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 9:19:24pm

re: #528 stretch

Well, I have learned quite a bit here on this blog. And I have no concern for 'karma'.

You have learned nothing here, except that when people are bored you can be amusing.

532 Sharmuta  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 9:19:28pm

re: #529 jainphx

No, it's not. We are all equal under the law.

533 jaunte  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 9:20:18pm

re: #529 jainphx

Think of it as an individual (of the minority) whose rights are balanced with an individual (of the majority).
That's how the U.S. works.

534 freetoken  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 9:20:25pm

re: #518 jainphx

I have no intension of joining the argument, but I must ask you a question. Are you saying the constitution allows the minority to violate the rights of the majority?

Not what she said. Sharmuta's wording is very clear. The constraint, necessary for a civil society to have pluralism, is that the minority be protected from the majority.

535 stretch  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 9:20:30pm

re: #524 Sharmuta

Of course I'm not saying that.

So if the majority of parents in your school district wanted a "disclaimer sticker" in the textbooks, would you take them to court until you had your way?

536 jainphx  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 9:20:51pm

Just a question to ponder, for if ones rights are protected does it not mean that an others must suffer. Just asking I mean no disrespect.

537 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 9:22:33pm

re: #536 jainphx

Just a question to ponder, for if ones rights are protected does it not mean that an others must suffer.

Rights are not the same as preferences.

538 Basho  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 9:23:31pm

re: #529 jainphx

No it was stated that the constitution keeps the majority from violating the rights of the minority, isn't that making the minority have more rights than the majority?

Err no... The Constitution keeping the majority from violating the rights of the minority only keeps the majority from violating the rights of the minority.

539 freedombilly  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 9:24:03pm

re: #529 jainphx

No it was stated that the constitution keeps the majority from violating the rights of the minority, isn't that making the minority have more rights than the majority?

If no one's rights are violated then everyone has equal rights. The minority, the majority, every "ity".

540 Erik The Red  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 9:24:03pm

re: #528 stretch

Well, I have learned quite a bit here on this blog. And I have no concern for 'karma'.

You could fool me. What have you really learned? You come onto the ID threads and spew the same rehashed bullshit time and again. You don't follow or read the links that are provided for you. You have learned fuck all. I am surprised the Lizards here still engage you in this debated.

541 jainphx  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 9:24:08pm

re: #537 SanFranciscoZionist

But who is the judge on who's preferences are proffered

542 freetoken  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 9:24:11pm

re: #536 jainphx

Just a question to ponder, for if ones rights are protected does it not mean that an others must suffer. Just asking I mean no disrespect.

False dichotomy. Why should we believe that "an others [sic] must suffer " because one's rights are protected?

543 Sharmuta  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 9:24:35pm

re: #535 stretch

I would first tell the majority they'd be violating the Constitution and opening the school district up to a lawsuit. If they went ahead with their plan anyways, you are damn straight I'd get a lawyer and stand up for the Constitution.

544 Syrah  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 9:24:56pm

re: #536 jainphx

Just a question to ponder, for if ones rights are protected does it not mean that an others must suffer. Just asking I mean no disrespect.

No. It is not a zero sum game.

Protecting your rights does not make my rights suffer.

545 Basho  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 9:25:01pm

re: #536 jainphx

Just a question to ponder, for if ones rights are protected does it not mean that an others must suffer. Just asking I mean no disrespect.

Err yeah... If one exercises his or her right to burglarize someone else's house, they suffer by going to prison.

546 Achilles Tang  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 9:25:35pm

re: #536 jainphx

Just a question to ponder, for if ones rights are protected does it not mean that an others must suffer. Just asking I mean no disrespect.

OK. One last one.

One's rights are protected only to the extent that they don't infringe on others. Only those who think that they have a right to force themselves on others need suffer, and they should. If, like stretch, you can't see the difference between knowledge and faith, then you would not understand, and will probably suffer. Ignorance can be painful.

547 Sharmuta  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 9:25:46pm

re: #542 freetoken

False dichotomy. Why should we believe that "an others [sic] must suffer " because one's rights are protected?

This is similar thinking of many leftists in that they think if one person is making money, someone else is being denied money.

548 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 9:25:51pm

re: #541 jainphx

But who is the judge on who's preferences are proffered

Judges decide on issues of rights under the law.

549 jainphx  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 9:26:18pm

re: #542 freetoken

Because in order for your rights to prevail someone else must suffer, or am I not understanding your meaning of rights.

550 Basho  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 9:26:38pm

re: #541 jainphx

But who is the judge on who's preferences are proffered

How old are you? No offense...

551 Sharmuta  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 9:27:12pm

re: #549 jainphx

You're not understanding.

552 Lynn B.  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 9:27:37pm

re: #550 Basho

How old are you? No offense...

Good question.

553 jainphx  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 9:27:52pm

67re: #550 Basho
67

554 freedombilly  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 9:28:07pm

re: #549 jainphx

You are not misunderstanding freetoken's meaning of rights, you are misunderstanding the meaning of rights.

555 stretch  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 9:28:34pm

re: #543 Sharmuta

I would first tell the majority they'd be violating the Constitution and opening the school district up to a lawsuit. If they went ahead with their plan anyways, you are damn straight I'd get a lawyer and stand up for the Constitution.

So you wouldn't think it would be less expensive and less time consuming to put your own child in a private school of your liking? Or are you actually more intersted in having everyone else forced to do what you want?

556 freedombilly  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 9:28:51pm

re: #550 Basho

I was wondering the same thing.

557 jainphx  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 9:29:05pm

So now that you know that I've been around a little longer than you , what does that have to do with it.

558 Syrah  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 9:29:46pm

re: #541 jainphx

But who is the judge on who's preferences are proffered

The point of protecting the minority from the majority is to keep the majority from using its majority powers to harm the minority.

It is a preventive measure to keep the majority from using its majority vote power from enslaving the outvoted minority.

559 Sharmuta  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 9:30:23pm

re: #555 stretch

I am interested in the Constitution being upheld and the integrity of science education being maintained.

560 scarshapedstar  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 9:30:31pm
Evolution refers to the unproven belief that random, undirected forces produced living things.

Meteorology refers to the unproven belief that random, undirected forces produce sunny days and hurricanes.

561 stretch  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 9:31:04pm

re: #557 jainphx

So now that you know that I've been around a little longer than you , what does that have to do with it.

I was wondering the same thing..

562 jainphx  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 9:31:54pm

re: #556 freedombilly

Let me ask it this way! Just for the sake of argument, I want to recite the pledge of allegiance in school and you don't, one of our rights have to suffer, am i wrong?

563 Basho  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 9:32:16pm

re: #555 stretch

So you wouldn't think it would be less expensive and less time consuming to put your own child in a private school of your liking? Or are you actually more intersted in having everyone else forced to do what you want?

Dude, seriously; If this bothers you so, go build a time machine and change the Constitution.

564 freetoken  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 9:32:24pm

re: #549 jainphx

You are not understanding the meaning of "rights".

565 jaunte  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 9:33:06pm

re: #562 jainphx

Yes.

566 Sharmuta  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 9:33:23pm

re: #562 jainphx

Let me ask it this way! Just for the sake of argument, I want to recite the pledge of allegiance in school and you don't, one of our rights have to suffer, am i wrong?

Yes- you're wrong. No one's rights are being violated because no one is forcing the non-pledge person to recite it against their will.

567 stretch  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 9:33:31pm

re: #559 Sharmuta

I am interested in the Constitution being upheld and the integrity of science education being maintained.

okay. So its not about the money - at all. And if someone else thinks that evolution is a joke, and the first amendment protects their right to think that way. And then there's a whole bunch of people that think that way. And then they form a school district and they don't like the textbooks that your crowd is selling, can't they pick one that they like?

568 Erik The Red  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 9:33:37pm

re: #562 jainphx

Let me ask it this way! Just for the sake of argument, I want to recite the pledge of allegiance in school and you don't, one of our rights have to suffer, am i wrong?

I if don't want to say it leave the room. Both rights respected.

569 jainphx  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 9:33:40pm

re: #558 Syrah

I fully agree, My only argument is that in order to do that someone else must suffer their rights.

570 Lynn B.  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 9:33:56pm
“This textbook discusses evolution, a controversial theory some scientists present as a scientific explanation for the origin of living things. No one was present when life first appeared on earth. Therefore, any statement about life’s origins should be considered a theory,” the proposal continues.

It's been repeated so many times it's almost a cliché. Evolution DOES NOT and HAS NEVER PURPORTED to be a scientific explanation for THE ORIGIN OF LIVING THINGS.

Gaaaaahhhhh! If the proposed disclaimer language was drafted by someone who so clearly doesn't even understand what the theory of evolution DOES explain, HOW ON EARTH can anyone give it or its author any credence at all?/?/?

571 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 9:34:26pm

re: #555 stretch

So you wouldn't think it would be less expensive and less time consuming to put your own child in a private school of your liking? Or are you actually more intersted in having everyone else forced to do what you want?

GAZE

572 Basho  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 9:34:57pm

re: #567 stretch

okay. So its not about the money - at all. And if someone else thinks that evolution is a joke, and the first amendment protects their right to think that way. And then there's a whole bunch of people that think that way. And then they form a school district and they don't like the textbooks that your crowd is selling, can't they pick one that they like?

That's what homeschooling is for.

573 freetoken  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 9:35:02pm

re: #563 Basho

Dude, seriously; If this bothers you so, go build a time machine and change the Constitution.

Not just the constitution, but much of our history.

Our ancestors had their fill of sectarian strife. We just witnessed a peaceful transition from one leader to another, while even today in many parts of the world there is, right now, fighting and bloodshed over beliefs of one sort or another.

Stretch wants to turn back to the time when the State was the agent of sectarian religious beliefs.

574 jainphx  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 9:35:19pm

re: #568 Erik The Red

If only that were the case, you would get absolutely no argument from me.

575 Syrah  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 9:35:38pm

re: #569 jainphx

I fully agree, My only argument is that in order to do that someone else must suffer their rights.

Why do you think it necessary for someone else's rights to suffer? Would you elaborate?

576 freedombilly  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 9:36:09pm

re: #562 jainphx

Let me ask it this way! Just for the sake of argument, I want to recite the pledge of allegiance in school and you don't, one of our rights have to suffer, am i wrong?

Under the first amendment we both have a right to freedom of speech. Neither one of us has a right to control what someone else says except in very famous examples like threatening the President or yelling fire in a crowded movie theater.

So no one has a "right" to have the person next to them not say the Pledge of Allegiance. Make sense?

577 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 9:36:20pm

re: #567 stretch

okay. So its not about the money - at all. And if someone else thinks that evolution is a joke, and the first amendment protects their right to think that way. And then there's a whole bunch of people that think that way. And then they form a school district and they don't like the textbooks that your crowd is selling, can't they pick one that they like?

Because promoting a specific religious point of view with government money is a violation of the First Amendment. How could you not consider that "establishment of religion"?

578 Sharmuta  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 9:36:22pm

re: #567 stretch

Anti-evolutionists are more than welcome to form their own private school where they can teach creationism all the live long day.

However- as we've seen in California, many of these children will have difficulty in going on to higher education in the vast majority of universities because they lack the required minimum of science education to qualify.

579 jaunte  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 9:37:31pm

re: #573 freetoken

Excellent point, which doesn't get made enough in these threads. We escaped from centuries of religious wars in Europe, and the genius of the Founders has kept us from duplicating them. I don't want to return to that, school district by school district.

580 Sharmuta  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 9:38:24pm

re: #579 jaunte

Excellent point, which doesn't get made enough in these threads. We escaped from centuries of religious wars in Europe, and the genius of the Founders has kept us from duplicating them. I don't want to return to that, school district by school district.

As I said earlier today- I have no desire to repeat the failed notions of the europeans.

581 stretch  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 9:38:25pm

re: #566 Sharmuta

Yes- you're wrong. No one's rights are being violated because no one is forcing the non-pledge person to recite it against their will.

The courts seemed to have moved quite differently on things like this, such as the 'moment of silence'. If just one person feels uncomfortble, or 'offended', then the activity must cease for all.

582 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 9:39:57pm

re: #555 stretch

So you wouldn't think it would be less expensive and less time consuming to put your own child in a private school of your liking? Or are you actually more intersted in having everyone else forced to do what you want?

Try making it more overt. Let's say that I am a parent in a small, overwhelmingly Orthodox Jewish community. We have a little school district. I get together with my friends on the school board and propose that we require that all the girls wear skirts below the knee, that the boys cover their heads, and that the school day will begin with a segregated Shacharit service. Also, what the heck, we will tell the kids that evolution is a flawed theory, and Rashi's commentary on Genesis is all you need to know.

A parent, doesn't matter if the parent is a non-Jew, or a secular Jew, or an Orthodox Jew, points out that we cannot do this in a public school, and gets the courts involved. We, of course, lose. Did I lose any rights? No, I didn't have a right to do this in the beginning. Did the rights of the minority triumph over mine? No, theirs were merely upheld. Can I send my kid to Bais Yaakov if I want? Sure. But that's my choice, to do or not do. My neighbor has a right not to have her public school turned into a yeshiva.

583 Unakite  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 9:40:00pm

re: #485 stretch

I'll give Charles a chance - he must be doing some research now.

Maybe I'm jumping in too late and this has already been beat to death, but you're challenging everyone else for evidence or to "back up" their arguments. If you are demanding such proof from others, you should offer valid evidence to support your position also. "I don't believe it and you can't explain it, therefore you're wrong and I'm right" is pretty weak.

584 jainphx  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 9:40:22pm

re: #575 Syrah

The constitution is was written to PROTECT the people from the government, and not the other way around as practiced today.

585 freetoken  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 9:40:32pm

re: #567 stretch

And then they form a school district

This is where you lose it. A school district is an incorporation under the laws of the State (a particular State in the US.)

Everywhere I've been in the US (and I believe this is true in every US state) the "school district" becomes a public entity, with elections open to the registered voters, etc.

Thus the School District becomes an agent of the State. The State is not to establish a religion, according to the US constitution.

If you want to have a private school, which is not a functionary of the State, then you can have it teach your religion, as the US constitution protects your right to excercise your religion.

Why is this so hard to understand?

586 freedombilly  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 9:40:35pm

re: #581 stretch

The courts seemed to have moved quite differently on things like this, such as the 'moment of silence'. If just one person feels uncomfortble, or 'offended', then the activity must cease for all.

As a lifelong Red Sox fan I am uncomfortable when the Yankees win. Should we make them cease?

587 Basho  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 9:40:50pm

re: #582 SanFranciscoZionist

I think you're making too much sense...

588 freedombilly  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 9:41:22pm

Good night Lizards. Sleepy time.

589 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 9:41:35pm

re: #562 jainphx

Let me ask it this way! Just for the sake of argument, I want to recite the pledge of allegiance in school and you don't, one of our rights have to suffer, am i wrong?

Let me repeat this. Rights and wants are different things. That said, no school I have ever been in as student or teacher would force a child to say the pledge, or prevent a child from saying it who wished to.

590 Basho  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 9:41:51pm

re: #584 jainphx

Who the hell is suffering? That's a pretty strong word...

591 jainphx  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 9:42:40pm

re: #577 Dark_Falcon

Ah now you have hit on it, THE Government has no money except what they take from you and me, and yet they say that I can't educate my kids unless I do it their way, that takes my rights away.

592 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 9:42:58pm

re: #567 stretch

okay. So its not about the money - at all. And if someone else thinks that evolution is a joke, and the first amendment protects their right to think that way. And then there's a whole bunch of people that think that way. And then they form a school district and they don't like the textbooks that your crowd is selling, can't they pick one that they like?

State standards, and constitutional law. Much like death and taxes.

593 Sharmuta  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 9:43:50pm

re: #584 jainphx

The constitution is was written to PROTECT the people from the government, and not the other way around as practiced today.

Which is exactly why creationism and ID violate the Constitution- it violates the First Amendment protections of the people for Free Exercise.

594 stretch  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 9:43:53pm

re: #570 Lynn B.

It's been repeated so many times it's almost a cliché. Evolution DOES NOT and HAS NEVER PURPORTED to be a scientific explanation for THE ORIGIN OF LIVING THINGS.

Gaaaaahhhhh! If the proposed disclaimer language was drafted by someone who so clearly doesn't even understand what the theory of evolution DOES explain, HOW ON EARTH can anyone give it or its author any credence at all?/?/?

Please, you're not going to re-write history. Evolution has always laid claim to 'know' the origin of life by purely naturalistic means (remember the pre-biotic soups)? Evolutionists have only recently backed off on the whole origin of life question only because 'life' started looking a whole lot more complicated to start than they had imagined. You overdid it a bit in feigning offense.

595 Basho  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 9:44:51pm

re: #591 jainphx

Ah now you have hit on it, THE Government has no money except what they take from you and me, and yet they say that I can't educate my kids unless I do it their way, that takes my rights away.

Dude... you're sixty-whatever and you're buying into the nonsense that taxes are theft that I fell for when I was a dumb high school kid. If you want to raise your kid your precious way the US government allows you to homeschool them, which is more than what many other governments would allow.

596 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 9:44:59pm

re: #587 Basho

I think you're making too much sense...


Sorry. Am I infringing on people's rights?/

597 jainphx  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 9:45:30pm

re: #593 Sharmuta

I love your post , and will not argue because you and I have been down that road.

598 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 9:45:32pm

re: #528 stretch

Just curious, but where do you cash in your Martyr PointsTM? Are they like Marlboro Miles? If they are, I bet you've got the coolest Discovery Institute Regulation Pool Table EVAR!
/

599 Syrah  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 9:46:00pm

re: #584 jainphx

The constitution is was written to PROTECT the people from the government, and not the other way around as practiced today.

I could agree with that.

But that injustice occurs does not mean that injustice must occur. Your rights do not negate mine.

600 Sharmuta  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 9:46:16pm

re: #591 jainphx

Ah now you have hit on it, THE Government has no money except what they take from you and me, and yet they say that I can't educate my kids unless I do it their way, that takes my rights away.

That's not true- you have the right to educate your child your way, but not at the expense of violating the rights of other citizens. If you don't want your child educated in a public school you can home school or send them to a private school- no one is stopping you.

601 jainphx  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 9:48:26pm

re: #595 Basho

Who said anything about theft, I said that they are telling me how to educate and what to teach with our money, and that isn't their function. Until Nixon there was no federal education Dept, it was all local.

602 stretch  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 9:48:53pm

re: #582 SanFranciscoZionist

Try making it more overt. Let's say that I am a parent in a small, overwhelmingly Orthodox Jewish community. We have a little school district. I get together with my friends on the school board and propose that we require that all the girls wear skirts below the knee, that the boys cover their heads, and that the school day will begin with a segregated Shacharit service. Also, what the heck, we will tell the kids that evolution is a flawed theory, and Rashi's commentary on Genesis is all you need to know.

A parent, doesn't matter if the parent is a non-Jew, or a secular Jew, or an Orthodox Jew, points out that we cannot do this in a public school, and gets the courts involved. We, of course, lose. Did I lose any rights? No, I didn't have a right to do this in the beginning. Did the rights of the minority triumph over mine? No, theirs were merely upheld. Can I send my kid to Bais Yaakov if I want? Sure. But that's my choice, to do or not do. My neighbor has a right not to have her public school turned into a yeshiva.

I agree - some here have wanted to say that disagreements about textbooks are costing too much money, and can't we all just go along with what the evolutionists have always taught us. They seem to think that a sticker on the inside cover of a textbook is too big a chink in the armour, and perhaps all those impressionable children would begin to question the great wisdom and knowledge of their betters, and the whole world will fall apart.

603 Sharmuta  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 9:50:24pm

re: #601 jainphx

Who said anything about theft, I said that they are telling me how to educate and what to teach with our money, and that isn't their function. Until Nixon there was no federal education Dept, it was all local.

And the local school districts are still beholden to the law.

604 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 9:50:26pm

re: #602 stretch

I agree - some here have wanted to say that disagreements about textbooks are costing too much money, and can't we all just go along with what the evolutionists have always taught us. They seem to think that a sticker on the inside cover of a textbook is too big a chink in the armour, and perhaps all those impressionable children would begin to question the great wisdom and knowledge of their betters, and the whole world will fall apart.

What exactly are you agreeing with?

605 Unakite  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 9:50:36pm

re: #491 stretch

Back it up a moment Jaunte - Charles made the same statement first - you ask him for evidence of what he said. Then come talk to me.

Geez, you argue like a little kid. "wah, he touched me first." "I didn't drop it there. Make him pick it up." Maybe I missed some of your more thought-provoking posts, but I think people would like you to present your evidence. Ask him and then come talk to me is a pretty good dodge.

606 jaunte  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 9:50:55pm

re: #602 stretch

Celebrating and encouraging scientific ignorance is bad for the country.

607 Basho  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 9:51:00pm

re: #602 stretch

Creationists are the douches whining and crying and complaining that the textbooks don't have the damn sticker. Don't turn around this nonsense on us.

608 Charles Johnson  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 9:51:21pm

re: #602 stretch

I agree - some here have wanted to say that disagreements about textbooks are costing too much money, and can't we all just go along with what the evolutionists have always taught us. They seem to think that a sticker on the inside cover of a textbook is too big a chink in the armour, and perhaps all those impressionable children would begin to question the great wisdom and knowledge of their betters, and the whole world will fall apart.

No, actually, the concern is that religious fanatics are trying to influence the teaching of science to children. Fanatics like you.

609 jainphx  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 9:52:09pm

re: #599 Syrah

You are now using my argument. Thank you for being so kind with me, I'm just trying to see in my mind where your rights start and mine end. Argument that is friendly is both educational and good for the soul. You are friendly.

610 jainphx  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 9:54:26pm

re: #603 Sharmuta

Yes but not federal law that supercedes local laws and customs passed by the votes of the locals.

611 Unakite  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 9:55:07pm

re: #502 Basho

Find an elephant skeleton that dates 65 million years. There you go.

That's a hell of a long time to be dating.
/

612 Sharmuta  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 9:55:13pm

re: #609 jainphx

Your rights end when they infringe on the rights of others. So teaching Christian Genesis literalism would violate the rights of non-Christian Literalist parents to teach their children their faith. People such as Catholics, Hindus, Buddhists, Jews, Muslims, Atheists, Pagans, Turtle Stackers, etc., etc.

613 Syrah  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 9:55:20pm

re: #609 jainphx

You are now using my argument. Thank you for being so kind with me, I'm just trying to see in my mind where your rights start and mine end. Argument that is friendly is both educational and good for the soul. You are friendly.

So you understand then that protecting the minority from the predations of the majority does not negate the rights of the majority?

614 Lynn B.  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 9:55:56pm

re: #594 stretch

Please, you're not going to re-write history. Evolution has always laid claim to 'know' the origin of life by purely naturalistic means (remember the pre-biotic soups)? Evolutionists have only recently backed off on the whole origin of life question only because 'life' started looking a whole lot more complicated to start than they had imagined. You overdid it a bit in feigning offense.

Revisionist much?

You need to re-read your "history," moron. Or at least stop trying to make it up out of whole cloth.

> Nobody here is buying.

615 Sharmuta  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 9:56:25pm

re: #610 jainphx

No, no, no. The Constitution is the trump card. Local laws are beholden to the Constitution.

616 Basho  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 9:56:28pm

re: #611 Unakite

=) Needed that. Now I'm calm again.

617 jainphx  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 9:56:43pm

My 610 is the gist of my argument. Federal government keep your nose out of legally past local laws regarding education.

618 stretch  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 9:57:02pm

re: #593 Sharmuta

Which is exactly why creationism and ID violate theConstitution- it violates the First Amendment protections of the people for Free Exercise.

Would you agree that the statement "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men" is in violation of the 1st amendment, and should be stricken from the Declaration of Independence?

619 jaunte  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 9:57:42pm

Good grief.

620 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 9:57:49pm

re: #602 stretch

Smack!

GAZE

621 jainphx  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 9:58:22pm

re: #613 Syrah

That depends on what were talking about! Some yes I agree, and some no I disagree.

622 Sharmuta  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 9:59:05pm

re: #617 jainphx

My 610 is the gist of my argument. Federal government keep your nose out of legally past local laws regarding education.

Local laws are still bound to abide by the Constitution. Even if we didn't have a federal department of education, local school districts would still be in violation of the Establishment and Free Exercise clauses were they to pass laws and regulations to teach creationism.

623 Basho  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 9:59:46pm

re: #618 stretch

Uh oh... Mr. Whaa-The-Constitution-Won't-Let-Me-Teach-My-Nonsense is pulling out the Are you saying you want to change the Constitution argument.

624 Sharmuta  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 10:00:43pm

re: #618 stretch

Pray tell- how does the Declaration of Independence violate anyone's right to Free Exercise?

625 jainphx  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 10:00:53pm

re: #615 Sharmuta

Yes but, the constitution is being in some cases turned on it's head. I would just like the powers that be to read what is actually in the constitution, and not try to add what they want it to say.

626 Sharmuta  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 10:01:12pm

re: #623 Basho

Uh oh... Mr. Whaa-The-Constitution-Won't-Let-Me-Teach-My-Nonsen se is pulling out the Are you saying you want to change the Constitution argument.

No- the DoI, which is just as absurd.

627 Sharmuta  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 10:01:49pm

re: #625 jainphx

Yes but, the constitution is being in some cases turned on it's head. I would just like the powers that be to read what is actually in the constitution, and not try to add what they want it to say.

No where is the Constitution being turned on it's head in this matter.

628 Basho  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 10:01:50pm

re: #626 Sharmuta

Gah! Was writing too fast.

629 jainphx  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 10:02:28pm

re: #622 Sharmuta

I'm not arguing Creationism, that is a topic I wont discuss, we are speaking of the constitution in general.

630 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 10:02:50pm

re: #617 jainphx

My 610 is the gist of my argument. Federal government keep your nose out of legally past local laws regarding education.

That's OK as far as goes. However, said local laws are not allowed to violate the Constitution. No local law may use public money to promote a religious point of view.

631 Syrah  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 10:02:51pm

re: #621 jainphx

That depends on what were talking about! Some yes I agree, and some no I disagree.

It is difficult to respond to a yes/no on that. Your argument is too undefined to discuss.

632 Unakite  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 10:03:02pm

re: #509 stretch

Not even close. There's just no way to look at a skeleton (or a fossil for that matter) and conclude that one of its distant ancestors was genetically divergent.

What's your evidence?

633 jainphx  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 10:05:13pm

re: #630 Dark_Falcon

But up until Nixon the constitution left all education up to local governments.

634 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 10:05:41pm

re: #629 jainphx

I'm not arguing Creationism, that is a topic I wont discuss, we are speaking of the constitution in general.

If that is your point, I agree. As long as the point is not being used to argue in favor of other violations of the Constitution.

635 stretch  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 10:06:13pm

re: #623 Basho

Uh oh... Mr. Whaa-The-Constitution-Won't-Let-Me-Teach-My-Nonsen se is pulling out the Are you saying you want to change the Constitution argument.

The point is, and was, that using the courts to force a certain path for science is silly. If evolutionists have such great evidence for naturalistic origin for life, or for one species spontaneously changing into another, then they can just bring their evidence forward and all questions can be settled. Right? How easy would that be? Why don't they do that, what are they afraid of?

The fact is they can't, so they won't. But shouting louder might do the trick.

636 jainphx  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 10:07:05pm

re: #631 Syrah

I'm sorry my mind is almost as tired as the rest of me tonight, maybe I can make myself clearer on another day.

637 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 10:07:10pm

re: #555 stretch

Or are you actually more intersted in having everyone else forced to do what you want?

This? From a Creationist shill? Ha! Ahahahaha! Hahahahaha!

Whew! I must say, this is the first time you've actually made me laugh out loud. Keep working at it, you may very well become the best unintentional comic relief here.

638 Unakite  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 10:08:06pm

re: #530 SanFranciscoZionist

I just imagine the elephants loping through the void, with their ears gently rippling...

...those elephants in the mist.

639 Erik The Red  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 10:08:50pm

re: #635 stretch

The point is, and was, that using the courts to force a certain path for science is silly. If evolutionists have such great evidence for naturalistic origin for life, or for one species spontaneously changing into another, then they can just bring their evidence forward and all questions can be settled. Right? How easy would that be? Why don't they do that, what are they afraid of?

The fact is they can't, so they won't. But shouting louder might do the trick.

HOW MUCH MORE FUCKING EVIDENCE DO YOU WANT? You have been provided with plenty here yet have not provided any to support you agenda.
Same shit from you every time.

640 Lynn B.  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 10:09:14pm

You know, I think the DI, since they are unable to come up with even a scintilla of scientific evidence either proving ID or refuting evolution, have instead turned their energies toward generating a semi-sentient program designed to occupy anti-Creationists in meaningless circular arguments for hours at a time, thus sapping our intellectual energies (and perhaps even our precious bodily fluids), not to mention depriving us of sleep.

Enough for me. I'm off for some recuperative zzzzzs.

'Night lizards.

'Night ID-bots.

641 Sharmuta  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 10:09:16pm

re: #635 stretch

The point is, and was, that using the courts to force a certain path for science is silly.

Then creationists should stop pushing their unconstitutional agenda- then there would be no need to have the courts involved.

642 jaunte  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 10:09:29pm

re: #635 stretch

The hard part is reading all the evidence. It's easier to remain ignorant.

643 Sharmuta  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 10:10:24pm

re: #633 jainphx

But up until Nixon the constitution left all education up to local governments.

And those local governments are still beholden to the Constitution.

644 jainphx  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 10:12:41pm

re: #643 Sharmuta

I guess we will just have to respectfully disagree. Good night fair lady we agree on a whole lot of topics, but a few, well that makes the world go around.

645 stretch  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 10:13:51pm

re: #624 Sharmuta

Pray tell- how does the Declaration of Independence violate anyone's right to Free Exercise?

It doesn't of course. But neither does the word 'Creator'. If I were to teach in a public school what some of the founders believed when they penned that word, then I would be in violation of somebody's interpretation of the 1st Amendment.

As I said before, the only real solution in the matter is to treat the public schools just like the public universities: if you can afford to pay you own way, then you will. Once all the upper and middle class parents are required to foot the bill - then most of them should leave for the private schools (or give much better attention to the educational material), and the public schools can better serve the poor.

646 stretch  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 10:15:49pm

re: #637 Slumbering Behemoth

This? From a Creationist shill? Ha! Ahahahaha! Hahahahaha!

Whew! I must say, this is the first time you've actually made me laugh out loud. Keep working at it, you may very well become the best unintentional comic relief here.

Thanks - that will be $5

647 Unakite  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 10:16:27pm

re: #549 jainphx

Because in order for your rights to prevail someone else must suffer, or am I not understanding your meaning of rights.

You're missing the point. Rights don't "prevail." Everyone has (or should have) the same rights. You just might not like the result of people exercising their rights. I have the right to vote. My candidate lost. Just because more people voted for BHO does not infringe upon or take away my right to vote (might piss me off a little).

648 jainphx  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 10:16:39pm

re: #645 stretch

See now that my friend is the difference, it's called funding, and if you want money(our money by the way) you'll do what we say, and that I strenuously object to.

649 Sharmuta  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 10:17:14pm

re: #644 jainphx

I guess we will just have to respectfully disagree. Good night fair lady we agree on a whole lot of topics, but a few, well that makes the world go around.

Disagree with me all you want- state and local laws must uphold the Constitution, and it's not the federal DoE that's the issue here. It's local governments passing these creationism/ID laws and local parents filing the lawsuits. Bringing in the federal DoE is a red herring.

650 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 10:17:57pm

re: #639 Erik The Red

HOW MUCH MORE FUCKING EVIDENCE DO YOU WANT? You have been provided with plenty here yet have not provided any to support you agenda.
Same shit from you every time.

The best method for dealing with stretch is the one I advocate every time he shows up: Spellbind him with your GAZE.

651 Sharmuta  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 10:19:09pm

re: #645 stretch

If I were to teach in a public school what some of the founders believed when they penned that word, then I would be in violation of somebody's interpretation of the 1st Amendment.

No you wouldn't if you were teaching a historical fact. If you were to over-reach and not teach this fact, but use it as an opening to proselytize to the children, then you would be in violation.

652 stretch  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 10:21:41pm

re: #632 Unakite

What's your evidence?


What? It was a negative statement. The evolutionists have blind faith in the ancestral lines of fossils - they have to come up with the evidence.

653 jaunte  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 10:23:15pm

re: #652 stretch

Come on, you're really a moby from the DNC aren't you?

654 stretch  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 10:24:18pm

re: #650 Dark_Falcon

The best method for dealing with stretch is the one I advocate every time he shows up: Spellbind him with your GAZE.


That's the fourth time for you with this GAZE thing. Maybe its not working for you?

655 jainphx  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 10:24:28pm

re: #650 Dark_Falcon

What does that do, if he's wrong prove him wrong, I take no side here on ID, I have my own beliefs, but to just out of hand reject some one for his thoughts isn't the road to travel. Discussion here is beneficial to all, as both sides can, or should see the others argument as just that an argument, and not personal. I read all of your posts and everyone else here and thoroughly enjoy my time spent.

656 Unakite  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 10:25:54pm

re: #591 jainphx

Ah now you have hit on it, THE Government has no money except what they take from you and me, and yet they say that I can't educate my kids unless I do it their way, that takes my rights away.

No. It. Doesn't.

657 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 10:26:18pm

I'm going to go pay some bills and watch bad TV now.

Laila tov.

658 Sharmuta  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 10:27:06pm

re: #650 Dark_Falcon

The best method for dealing with stretch is the one I advocate every time he shows up: Spellbind him with your GAZE.

I think someone should debunk his bullshit lest others get the wrong impression of LGF. We don't let BS go- we call it out on the mat with facts and evidence to support our positions.

659 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 10:27:23pm

re: #652 stretch

What? It was a negative statement. The evolutionists have blind faith in the ancestral lines of fossils - they have to come up with the evidence.

The fossil record is the evidence. Look at the example of feathers: slowly changing from slightly protective showy coating to practical tool of flight. The Field Museum had an excellent exhibit on recently found Chinese the showed the evolution of feather's last year.

660 stretch  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 10:27:39pm

re: #653 jaunte

Come on, you're really a moby from the DNC aren't you?

Nope, hate to disappoint you. Those little textbook stickers are the fodder for courts and lawyers - they need the work.

bye for now

661 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 10:27:58pm

re: #658 Sharmuta

I think someone should debunk his bullshit lest others get the wrong impression of LGF. We don't let BS go- we call it out on the mat with facts and evidence to support our positions.

Fair enough. You are right.

662 jaunte  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 10:30:01pm

re: #474 stretch

I'll note that stretch never answered this, among other questions:


"public school is all about secularists using taxpayer funds to force their beliefs on other people's children."


Do you have evidence of this, or just a bare assertion?

663 jainphx  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 10:31:32pm

re: #658 Sharmuta

That is the route to take, but don't be afraid to at least ponder the other side,as always you are intelligent with your ways, for that I commend you.

664 Unakite  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 10:44:13pm

re: #652 stretch

What? It was a negative statement. The evolutionists have blind faith in the ancestral lines of fossils - they have to come up with the evidence.

At least you're consistent. all of your statements are negative. You must be related to the ostriches. It's so easy to ignore the facts with your head buried in the sand.

665 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 10:47:31pm

re: #664 Unakite

At least you're consistent. all of your statements are negative. You must be related to the ostriches. It's so easy to ignore the facts with your head buried in the sand.

LOL.

666 Mr Secul  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 10:54:02pm

re: #510 jaunte

The recent hoax of a human footprint in a dinosaur track from Texas is evidence that some creationists understand what kind of evidence would falsify evolutionary theory, and aren't above trying to fake it.

I'd like to double ding that. Its so true.

667 Mr Secul  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 10:57:21pm

re: #512 Basho

Who cares? Just find an elephant skeleton and date it to 65 million years.

Or elephant skeletons in the same beds as any dinosaur skeleton and then there would be no doubt that they were contemporaneous.

668 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 11:00:25pm

re: #602 stretch

They seem to think that a sticker on the inside cover of a textbook is too big a chink in the armour, and perhaps all those impressionable children would begin to question the great wisdom and knowledge of their betters, and the whole world will fall apart.

You're being intentionally obtuse, quisling. You know very well that the DI's unconstitutional and un-American agenda has long since been exposed, and that it doesn't stop with a simple sticker in a text book.

669 Mr Secul  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 11:02:22pm

re: #517 stretch

I agree that the human footprint was a hoax, but falsifiability is something that the evolutionists have to come up with on their own, otherwise they cannot claim that their theory is backed by the 'scientific method'.

29+ Evidences for Macroevolution Each one suggests how it could be falsified.

Who are you trying to impress? Is it casual readers? People who haven't been following these threads? The easily impressed? Yourself?

670 lostlakehiker  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 11:11:26pm

It's the nonrandom, steady, inexorable FORCE of selective pressure that favors this randomly arising variation and punishes that one, that causes evolution. Once a variation occurs, if it chances to be a favorable one, it gets selected for. It becomes more common, then nearly universal. There's nothing random about that.

The screed also lies by misdirection when it asserts that evolution explains the origin of life. Darwin's theory of evolution doesn't try to explain the origin. It just explains how the initial life, simple and undifferentiated, developed into the mass of variety we see today.

And as to "evolutionists", that's like talking about "2+2=4ists". People who believe in evolution aren't "evolutionists", any more than people who believe that Alaska is cold are Alaskacoldists. We believe that life developed through evolution for the same kind of reasons we believe Alaska is cold. The factual evidence for both is overwhelming.

671 Sharmuta  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 11:14:27pm

re: #663 jainphx

That is the route to take, but don't be afraid to at least ponder the other side,as always you are intelligent with your ways, for that I commend you.

If the other side presents themselves with facts and evidence, I consider it. If they present their opinion with nothing besides their opinion, that leaves little to consider. But thank you for the kind words.

672 scarshapedstar  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 11:18:05pm

re: #509 stretch

Not even close. There's just no way to look at a skeleton (or a fossil for that matter) and conclude that one of its distant ancestors was genetically divergent.

This is just flat-out fail. Paleontology is not and cannot be perfect. But morphological phylogeny (looking at skeletons to determine their relatives/ancestors) has been refined and vindicated by genetic analysis. We know a whole lot about the top of the tree, i.e. every known living thing. We've proven that panda bears really are bears and not giant raccoons, ferchissakes.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

And could you elaborate on what you mean by "genetically divergent"? Where I'm from, "genetically divergent" would be if you had, say, a tank of purple fish that turned into self-isolating populations of red and blue fish. The populations diverge; they go in different directions; if hybridization is rare then they can be considered incipient species.

Incidentally, this is pretty much the opposite of a famous real-world experiment.

[Link: www.sciencemag.org...]

Some cichlid species differentiate their mates from all the other cichlids by coloration, like red or blue spots. They're able to mate with other species of cichlids, but they will not do so by choice... not knowingly (and really, fish don't know much.) Thus, while the two species might be considered distinct from the morphological perspective (they look different) and the ecological (they probably feed on slightly different prey) they are not biological species. Genetically, they're the same, like a teacup chihuahua and a timber wolf.

Anyway, so they put these fish in a lab with low light, so that they couldn't see in color, and found that any cichlid would mate across species if it couldn't identify its partner as "different". Sorta like how if the entire human population were suddenly completely unable to determine the racial background of their fellows, we'd all look basically the same within a few generations. These cichlid species are not disappearing due to natural selection, they are disappearing due to a lack of sexual selection.

The species may disappear and coalesce into one type of cichlid, but as you lose diversity you lose niches and unique genes. Species are somewhat of a human construct but genetic density and ecological production are measurable.

I don't remember what this had to do with creationism, but I think my explanation makes a lot more sense than "God wanted these fish to stay apart and now he's bringing them together, and maybe later he'll separate them again."

673 Mr Secul  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 11:21:05pm

re: #579 jaunte

Excellent point, which doesn't get made enough in these threads. We escaped from centuries of religious wars in Europe, and the genius of the Founders has kept us from duplicating them. I don't want to return to that, school district by school district.

Its like a retreat to the dark ages. Does America want to join the third world?

674 Eclectic Infidel  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 11:39:32pm

re: #98 quickjustice

Why the sudden craziness about legislating creationism?

Just a guess, but perhaps some of these Southern Baptists believe that the end is near and want to indoctrinate as many young minds as possible before "all hell breaks loose." And what a better way to indoctrinate into their cult than to infiltrate the science classroom. Fundamentalist Christian belief strikes me as bat guano crazy anyway; this may be a way to ease kids into believing that sort of thing.

675 Eclectic Infidel  Wed, Jan 21, 2009 11:41:04pm

hmm. I didn't mean to my post in blockquote, but there you go.

676 claire  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 1:08:39am

re: #674 eclectic infidel

I think you are exactly right about the motivations behind this all. I'm reading "Monkeygirl" right now and the mindset of some of the people bringing these lawsuits is just unreal. They look forward to a Theocracy in the near future and think that would really be a great thing. Very Talibanesque.

(Here come's the at least we are not trying to kill the infidel, just convert him, yeah, yeah.....but if , ya know, 100's of millions of you 'effers die in the rapture, oh wellsie..... c'est la vie and all.)

677 Tigger2005  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 3:34:02am

I believe the world was created by Iluvatar (Eru) and the music of the Ainur. The Silmarillion, specifically the Ainulindale, tells me so. I believe the Sun and Moon are vessels holding a golden fruit of Telperion and a silver flower of Laurelin, the Two Trees of Valinor, and are pulled through the skies by Maiar spirits. I believe there is a star in the sky that is actually the Silmaril bound on the brow of Earendil the Mariner, who eternally voyages the sky in his mighty ship Vingilot.

I want Middle-earth creation science taught in schools!

678 annar  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 4:41:34am

re: #77 reine.de.tout

So, the Bible is a "theory" now?

No, it's simply a collection of fictional short stories written by multiple authors of varying talent.

679 doppelganglander  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 7:27:43am

re: #19 Killgore Trout

Once again they are wasting tax payer's money. This has already been tried and ruled unconstitutional....
Georgia Evolution Stickers Ordered Removed

That wasn't the first time our leaders made us look like a bunch of knuckle-dragging morons. See the 1996 Olympic volleyball controversy.

Weirdly enough, we actually have one of the top ranked school systems in the state (which admittedly isn't hard in Georgia, but it's actually above the national average too).

680 Throbert McGee  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:43:33am

re: #271 Occasional Reader

LGF Poll: Should I clean my pistol tonight?

It's dirty. But I'm feeling lazy.

If this is your euphemistic way of saying "Should I wank myself daft tonight?", I say go for it, cowboy.

681 mcdonald2012  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 9:01:59am

It's quite dishonest to use the "it's just a theory" smear in a science textbook, let alone in everyday life. In a science textbook, the word theory does not have many meanings. It has a specific and profound meaning. Evolution is not “a controversial theory some scientists present as a scientific explanation for the origin of living things.” It is a decidedly uncontroversial theory (in the full scientific meaning of the word) that nearly all scientists support because “it has been tested and scrutinised for over 150 years, and is supported by all the relevant observations.

682 Charles Johnson  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 9:19:16am

re: #681 mcdonald2012

It's quite dishonest to use the "it's just a theory" smear in a science textbook, let alone in everyday life.

One of the most striking attributes of creationists is their willingness to lie blatantly, shamelessly, and repeatedly, even after it's been shown that they're lying. It's a visible manifestation of the massive cognitive dissonance going on inside their minds.

683 Throbert McGee  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 9:40:37am

re: #678 annar

No, it's simply a collection of fictional short stories written by multiple authors of varying talent.

Wrong -- it's a mix of Just-So stories (Genesis), folk wisdom (Proverbs), semi-fictional dramatizations of historic events (Exodus, Kings, the Gospels), literary fiction (Job), poetry (Psalms, Song of Solomon), legal codes (Leviticus) and non-fiction essays exhorting people to get right with God (pretty much all of the Old Testament prophets, and the New Testament epistles).

Even if you're an atheist, it does the Bible a severe disservice to categorize it as just "fiction."

684 Haverwilde  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 10:03:49am

re: #683 Throbert McGee

Wrong -- it's a mix of Just-So stories (Genesis), folk wisdom (Proverbs), semi-fictional dramatizations of historic events (Exodus, Kings, the Gospels), literary fiction (Job), poetry (Psalms, Song of Solomon), legal codes (Leviticus) and non-fiction essays exhorting people to get right with God (pretty much all of the Old Testament prophets, and the New Testament epistles).
Even if you're an atheist, it does the Bible a severe disservice to categorize it as just "fiction."

Well said McGee:
In a non-literate society, oral traditions become the major means of passing on traditions, beliefs, laws, and a unifying set of mythology. When that same society moves toward literacy, and translation of these oral traditions to paper you get an interesting picture.
The creation mythology of the bible has definite parallels with the earlier Babylonian creation myths. Threads of earlier myths crop up in the documents such as Moses in the bulrushes.
One of the interesting aspects of the Gospel is how one of the writers attempts (in a manner similar to oral traditions) to recreate much of Jewish history in Jesus life story—Flight into Egypt, killing of the first born child, exodus back into Israel.
To draw modern conclusions based on a different and multi-millennia older society is foolhardy. Even to call the obvious fable (Job), fiction, is a disservice. Just as our modern fables (e.g. Washington and the cherry tree) may be fiction but there is a process of handing dowun a 'truth' in these stories.

685 Basho  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 10:36:47am

re: #682 Charles

One of the most striking attributes of creationists is their willingness to lie blatantly, shamelessly, and repeatedly, even after it's been shown that they're lying. It's a visible manifestation of the massive cognitive dissonance going on inside their minds.

Texas Board of Ed misrepresenting a Nobel Prize Winner:
[Link: scienceblogs.com...]

686 Mr Secul  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 10:52:46pm

re: #682 Charles

One of the most striking attributes of creationists is their willingness to lie blatantly, shamelessly, and repeatedly, even after it's been shown that they're lying. It's a visible manifestation of the massive cognitive dissonance going on inside their minds.

That is so true.

Why do they think that Jesus wants them to lie for him?

687 jones88  Fri, Jan 23, 2009 1:01:25am

I can't seem to really gin up much concern over these petty fights. To me, these are a lot less egregious than the fact false history is being taught in the schools, indoctrinating kids to blame America and accept the leftist spin on history. How about the false science in the way of global warming religion, which has a much more profound affect on us all and our rights as citizens and how our tax dollars are spent.

Issues like these seem to have a lot more genuine impact on society and lives. Choosing to solely make huge issue of Intelligent Design seems almost like you have a problem with evangelicals or the Religious Right, not the substance of the issue, which _is_ open to debate, I hope you'll still allow. If not, you might seem just as close-minded as those you criticize.

688 Charles Johnson  Fri, Jan 23, 2009 9:05:20am

re: #687 jones88

Choosing to solely make huge issue of Intelligent Design seems almost like you have a problem with evangelicals or the Religious Right, not the substance of the issue, which _is_ open to debate, I hope you'll still allow. If not, you might seem just as close-minded as those you criticize.

No, the issue of creationism is NOT "open to debate." The doctrines of creationism, and the attempts by creationists to subvert the Constitution and force religious fanaticism down the throats of US schoolchildren, are dishonest to their core. They're regressive. They're atavistic. And they're FALSE.

Creationism is pseudo-science, and if you really believe there's no problem with teaching lies in our schools, you have a serious problem with your priorities.

689 Haverwilde  Fri, Jan 23, 2009 9:21:39am

re: #687 jones88

Jones, You are a newby from last night. And this was your first post. I will assume that your comments were made without the information covered on this site over the last many months. I can agree with some of your comments on the 'leftist spin' on history, and on the GW religion. I hope you will take another look at your view of 'creationism.' It only makes sense in a narrow religious sense, as in, God is the 'creator.' To teach it in science is so contrary to every principle of science that it is impossible. This is not an attack on the 'Religious Right,' it is a fight against returning to the 15th century way of thinking.

690 Charles Johnson  Fri, Jan 23, 2009 9:29:02am

'jones88' is a previously banned sock puppet, and now he's banned again.

691 Charles Johnson  Fri, Jan 23, 2009 9:29:20am

And again we see the dishonest tactics of creationists.


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