Wednesday Morning Open

OpenFebruary 2009 • Views: 1,637

If we long to believe that the stars rise and set for us, that we are the reason there is a Universe, does science do us a disservice in deflating our conceits?

— Carl Sagan

Open Thread

Jump to bottom

59 comments

zombie Wed, Feb 18, 2009 10:39:48am

Unclench and relax. It's gonna be a long day.

rightside Wed, Feb 18, 2009 10:40:39am

More porkulus dollars than stars in the galaxy..

lifeofthemind Wed, Feb 18, 2009 10:41:28am

twinkle twinkle little moonbat
how i wonder where you're at

Diamond Bullet Wed, Feb 18, 2009 10:41:44am

Open threads that do not have headscarves are just uncovered meat luring in innocent posters with their attractive wiles. They deserve to get posted all over.

Guanxi88 Wed, Feb 18, 2009 10:41:45am

re: #2 rightside

More porkulus dollars than stars in the galaxy..

"Billions and billions...." to paraphrase the aforementioned Carl.

[deleted] Wed, Feb 18, 2009 10:42:00am

jaunte Wed, Feb 18, 2009 10:42:16am

Why does the universe hate our egos so much?

Neo_ Wed, Feb 18, 2009 10:42:19am

Holder: US is nation of cowards on racial matters

Does anyone think this will go over any better than that comment during the campaign about a "nation of whiners" ?

Gretchen G.Tiger Wed, Feb 18, 2009 10:42:40am

Ahhhhh, an open thread! I'm all for transparency and accountability.

lifeofthemind Wed, Feb 18, 2009 10:43:19am

re: #6 buzzsawmonkey

And the disposition of those dollars is known as the Grab Nebula.

Where did the money go?
Into the great Nebulous?
Into the Cosmic Shrug.

Golem Akbar Wed, Feb 18, 2009 10:43:23am

Ah yes, a beautiful day, nevertheless.

HelloDare Wed, Feb 18, 2009 10:43:28am

I figured out why Obama is pushing all this pork around. He wants to convince people he's not a practicing Muslim. Ba-dah-boom.

pre-Boomer Marine brat Wed, Feb 18, 2009 10:43:41am

If we long to believe that the stars rise and set for us, that we are the reason there is a Universe, does science do us a disservice in deflating our conceits?

IMHO, if Science is the one which does that to myself, then my Faith has taken a backseat.

acwgusa Wed, Feb 18, 2009 10:43:58am

re: #8 Neo_

Holder: US is nation of cowards on racial matters

Does anyone think this will go over any better than that comment during the campaign about a "nation of whiners" ?

Holder can blow it out his ass. What color is the president again?

Self-Segregate in our private lives? That's why their called PRIVATE, you nimrod.

HelloDare Wed, Feb 18, 2009 10:44:20am

re: #11 Golem Akbar

That's so pretty it looks fake.

Ford_Prefect Wed, Feb 18, 2009 10:44:41am

re: #3 lifeofthemind

twinkle twinkle little moonbat
how i wonder where you're at

Up above reality
Like a Unicorn drinking tea

Macker Wed, Feb 18, 2009 10:44:44am

re: #5 Guanxi88

"Billions and billions...." to paraphrase the aforementioned Carl.

The only thing which sticks in my mind about the guy. That, and the Starship Theodorus.

Syrah Wed, Feb 18, 2009 10:45:39am

The Whitehorse website is a real POS.

Its about as transparent as mud. I don't know if they are deliberately trying to obfuscate or if they are just that incompetent.

acwgusa Wed, Feb 18, 2009 10:45:41am

re: #14 acwgusa

Holder can blow it out his ass. What color is the president again?

Self-Segregate in our private lives? That's why their called PRIVATE, you nimrod.

And my grammar is atrocious. "They're" Private.

Apparently, I'm the nimrod today.

SasquatchOnSteroids Wed, Feb 18, 2009 10:46:06am

re: #2 rightside

More porkulus dollars than stars in the galaxy..

a dollar bill is 6" long. 2 bills/ft.

787,000,000,000 =

393,500,000,000 ft. =

74,526,515 miles

Damn.

Gretchen G.Tiger Wed, Feb 18, 2009 10:46:19am

re: #7 jaunte

Why does the universe hate our egos so much?

The Universe hates me?

whhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhiiiiiiiiiiiiiiinnnnnnnnnnnnnnne.

Golem Akbar Wed, Feb 18, 2009 10:46:26am

re: #15 HelloDare

That's so pretty it looks fake.

I check it throughout the day, especially lately when our mountains have gotten snow.

pre-Boomer Marine brat Wed, Feb 18, 2009 10:47:02am

Re-posted from the end of the Dawkins thread (from which everyone had already de-camped):

"I haven't been here all that long. Did we/you tend to get a better caliber of trolls in olden days?"

/montersj was something of a fish in a barrel.

MJ Wed, Feb 18, 2009 10:47:22am

Holder urged people of all races to use Black History Month as a chance for frank talk about racial matters.

Anyone remember what happened to Daniel Patrick Moynihan when he tried that?

Ackomanyuki Wed, Feb 18, 2009 10:47:28am

William S. Hatcher's empirically based corollary to Sagan's Empirical conceits

P1. The principle of sufficient reason: All phenomena are either self-caused (i.e. A->A) or other-caused (B->A; B is not equal to A) but not both. Put another way, this principle says that the question "why?" is always meaningful. Everything happens for a reason.

P2. The potency principle: If A -> B then for all C element of B, A -> C. In other words if A is the cause of B then A is the cause of every part of B. There are several notions of causality in philosophy. Hatcher's notion of causality is total causality; i.e. it is not the straw that breaks the camel's back but the 1000 straws before it, the camel, gravity, and so forth, that give rise to the camel breaking it's back.

P3. The principle of limitation: For all A, where A is an element of B, A->B does not hold. This says a system (which Hatcher represents as a set) cannot be the cause of its own components. Hatcher justifies this by explaining any system has (1) form (the parts) and (2) function (the relationship between the parts). A car (the system) cannot be the cause of its own steering wheel (a part), because the car does not even logically exist until the steering wheel exists. Thus the car's existence cannot precede the steering wheel's existence.

HelloDare Wed, Feb 18, 2009 10:47:38am

Is Hillary visiting the Philippines? Bet ya Imelda Markos could throw some shoes around.

zombie Wed, Feb 18, 2009 10:48:29am

If we long to believe that the stars rise and set for us, that we are the reason there is a Universe, does science do us a disservice in deflating our conceits?

The thing that deflated my conceits are the Hubble photos of the Ultra Deep Field.

In that one image, which is just a teeny tiny portion of the night sky, are countless galaxies extending off to the visible horizon. Each galaxy contains "billions and billions" of stars. And each may have untold numbers of planets. And each planet may have untold numbers of potential life-supporting ecosystems.

All of this in a segment of the sky this big:

Go outside tonight, take a ball-point pen with you, and hold it up in front of the night sky at arm's length. The tip of your pen is about 1 millimeter wide, and at arm's length, it would cover the 10,000 galaxies seen in the Ultra Deep Field image. That's how unbelievably massive the visible universe is.

If you actually try to ponder this, you become completely awestruck.

And even if you then come to the conclusion that homo sapiens are not the center of the Universe, this need not necessarily undermine one's belief in God; in fact, it may only increase your amazement at what he/she/it created.

Ward Cleaver Wed, Feb 18, 2009 10:49:16am

The Bushes are beginning to settle in here in Dallas (while the movers started delivering their furniture yesterday) - Laura was seen last night, eating at a Mexican restaurant on Lovers Lane, with some friends.

Gretchen G.Tiger Wed, Feb 18, 2009 10:49:22am

Have a great afternoon all!

lifeofthemind Wed, Feb 18, 2009 10:50:21am

re: #27 zombie

, it may only increase your amazement at what he/she/it created.

All you he/she/its stick together.

yma o hyd Wed, Feb 18, 2009 10:51:16am

re: #8 Neo_

Holder: US is nation of cowards on racial matters

Does anyone think this will go over any better than that comment during the campaign about a "nation of whiners" ?

Oh cripes!

From that link:
'The nation's first black attorney general, Holder said the American workplace is largely integrated but Americans still self-segregate on the weekends and in their private lives.'
Yeah - and because we've got blacks here in the UK as well, and 'race-conscious' libtard politicians, now some of our National parks get less state money for upkeep - because there ain't so many blacks visiting them.
Why would a Jamaican-born Londoner go to the Peak district and climb up mountains in the pelting rain if he can sit comfortably at home?
Its only mad, white Brits who do that ...

Another quote:
'Holder argued that people who work at the Justice Department have a special responsibility to advance racial understanding.'

Yeah - like, understanding that justice is colour blind.
Oh ... thats not what he meant?

Ward Cleaver Wed, Feb 18, 2009 10:51:33am

re: #17 Macker

The only thing which sticks in my mind about the guy. That, and the Starship Theodorus.

I remember a cartoon years ago, in OMNI magazine, with the caption, "Billions and billions of Carl Sagans". The picture was a sea of heads, all with the characteristic swoop of his hairline.

lostlakehiker Wed, Feb 18, 2009 10:51:47am

re: #8 Neo_

Holder: US is nation of cowards on racial matters

Does anyone think this will go over any better than that comment during the campaign about a "nation of whiners" ?

Holder is right, though maybe not in the sense he meant. No one dares say anything about anything that has anything to do with anything related to race, unless it would be to recite the party line.

fish Wed, Feb 18, 2009 10:53:35am

re: #1 zombie

Unclench and relax. It's gonna be a long day.

I want to, I really do. I get up in the morning and make breakfast for my kids and see them off to school. Then I drive to work with the radio on. And inevitable I hear of something Dear Leader has done in the hours since I went to bed that just makes relaxing impossible.

Cato the Elder Wed, Feb 18, 2009 10:55:50am

Salvete, lacerti!

godfrey Wed, Feb 18, 2009 10:56:29am

re: #8 Neo_

Read: reparations on the way, and no whining about it. It takes courage to cough up the dough.

Alberta Oil Peon Wed, Feb 18, 2009 10:56:40am

re: #18 Syrah

The Whitehorse website is a real POS.

Its about as transparent as mud. I don't know if they are deliberately trying to obfuscate or if they are just that incompetent.

Umm, here is the real Whitehorse Web site.

I can't imagine what you really meant to post.
///

fish Wed, Feb 18, 2009 10:59:11am

re: #18 Syrah

The Whitehorse website is a real POS.

Its about as transparent as mud. I don't know if they are deliberately trying to obfuscate or if they are just that incompetent.

From the site:

The President will talk more about his plan a little later today. In the meantime, we’re sure you have a lot of questions, like, Am I eligible for assistance? Might I be able to modify my loan? When do I apply?

How about these questions: Will this work? Are you an idiot? If I pay my mortgage, how much extra will this cost me?

rightside Wed, Feb 18, 2009 11:00:46am

re: #24 MJ

No, please inform me. I always thought DPM was a smart man.

LGoPs Wed, Feb 18, 2009 11:00:58am

re: #27 zombie

If you actually try to ponder this, you become completely awestruck.

And even if you then come to the conclusion that homo sapiens are not the center of the Universe, this need not necessarily undermine one's belief in God; in fact, it may only increase your amazement at what he/she/it created.

Holy shit. Forget about Global Warming. What in the world are we going to do to stop Universe Warming...........Aieeeeeeeeeeeee!
/

pre-Boomer Marine brat Wed, Feb 18, 2009 11:02:07am

bbl

acwgusa Wed, Feb 18, 2009 11:03:24am

I'm going to buy the McMansion I want, default, and have the taxpayers cushion my fat ass when I land.

Gimmie that Government Arugula!

/I really despise you, you 545 retards! You destroyed America!

turn Wed, Feb 18, 2009 11:03:36am

Been gone awhile but back just now to read all the ROP updates here. I don't recall this much blatant fist clenching going on under the Bush administration. I believe many who commented here are right, they sense weakness. The plea for them to unclench their fists has had exactly the opposite effect (surprise kafir!).

Oh and I ran across this at Drudge earlier

[Link: www.gazette.com...]

Now that is a peanut allergy the training of the dog was one hell of an idea. BTW the breeder I bought my lab Luke from said he shows a lot of Portuguese Water dog in him. He has really curly fur along the top of his back. Lab breeders mixed them in years and years ago I understand.

Wow Luke is no way this curly but you get the idea:

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

The breed dates back to 700 BC, wow I didn't know that. No wonder the breeders chose them to mix with labs, very hardy.

Achilles Tang Wed, Feb 18, 2009 11:08:41am

re: #27 zombie

If you actually try to ponder this, ............

Therein lies the rub.

notutopia Wed, Feb 18, 2009 11:10:03am

Two quotes sent to me in an email today.

'My friends, we live in the greatest nation in the history of the world. I hope you'll join with me as we try to change it.'

-- Barack Obama

''Life's tough......it's even tougher if you're stupid.''

-- John Wayne

heH.

MilkOfMalfeasance Wed, Feb 18, 2009 11:14:26am

Sagan was a wise man. RIP

Raven1 Wed, Feb 18, 2009 11:15:08am

It's not only science that has been deflating my conceits............

[deleted] Wed, Feb 18, 2009 11:16:50am

Kenneth Wed, Feb 18, 2009 11:23:08am

An interesting discussion about Afghanistan on Charlie Rose. Some good information about the problems & challenges in what is now "Obama's War".

Not many solid ideas about what to do about it...

Ulpianus Wed, Feb 18, 2009 11:37:39am

If I see an image from the Hubble, I do not think how little we are because there are things larger in extension, but rather how great we are that we can understand something so vast.

What is grandness in size compared to greatness in understanding?

MPH Wed, Feb 18, 2009 11:41:59am

Did you catch Iowahawk's latest:

Heere Bigynneth the Tale of the Asse-Hatte
[Link: bighollywood.breitbart.com...]

Too good...just too good...

29 From Edinburgh to London-towne
30 The Musslemans in burnoose gowne
31 Who beat theyr ownselfs with theyr knyves
32 Than goon home and beat theyr wyves
33 And slaye theyr daughtyrs in honour killlynge
34 Howe do we stoppe the bloode fromme spillynge?”
35 The Bishop sipped upon hys tea
36 And sayed, “an open mind must we
37 Keep, for know thee well the Mussel-man
38 Has hys own laws for hys own clan
39 So question not hys Muslim reason
40 And presaerve ye well social cohesion.”

AU Wed, Feb 18, 2009 11:54:55am

I think a good way to protest the Porkolous is to claim that printing so much money is environmentally unsound. Do you think the envirofacists will then come on board against the porkolous?

winston06 Wed, Feb 18, 2009 1:50:34pm

Is this thread dead or dying?

BLBfootballs Wed, Feb 18, 2009 2:00:55pm

re: #27 zombie

If you actually try to ponder this, you become completely awestruck.

And even if you then come to the conclusion that homo sapiens are not the center of the Universe, this need not necessarily undermine one's belief in God; in fact, it may only increase your amazement at what he/she/it created.

That's the weakness of Sagan's declaration. Scientific examination, no matter how industrious and intelligent, will never be able to tell us "the reason there is a Universe".

Science can inform us of orbital mechanics, dark matter.... maybe even dark energy (depends if you consider that 'science'!). But it cannot legitimately claim to offer solutions to existential questions. We know that we are not the orbital center of the solar system, and in that respect science has done an invaluable service in bringing humans closer to the truth about reality.... but science can never tell us existentially whether the sun and stars really do or do not "rise and set for us".

skicougar Wed, Feb 18, 2009 2:30:48pm

Want to know how much you're giving up of your paycheck for taxes currently, read below:

Taxes ! We all hate them, but most of us live with them and never get stirred up as you usually only take .one glance per year at what you pay, when you pay the IRS.

Why ? That’s not how you keep your resolve.

Let’s take the summer gas price hysteria. Every week you filled up your tank and got more mad every week until your fuming drove you to call, email and fax Congress and the President to the point that offshore drilling became an issue D.C. had to resolve.

Why not apply the same here ? You are surely paying more in taxes than your weekly gas bill is today. Maybe, just maybe; you’ll be active enough to help reduce your taxes and help everyone else do the same.

Ok, let’s try.

Go here:
[Link: www.paycheckcity.com...]

Or here:
[Link: www.payroll-taxes.com...]

Now, if you get paid $50,0000 per year; you’re paying $213.22 per week, $852.88 per month and $11087.44 per year !

So, let’s put that in perspective. That equates to being able to pay for the mortgage on a house selling for $142,000(nothing down, at 6%).

If you make $50,000 and have no dependents; you are giving up the mortgage payment on a $142,000 house every month because the government needs to put in high speed rail from LA to Las Vegas even though Amtrak cancelled its train on the same route due to lack of ridership, protecting the salt marsh mouse and honeybee insurance.

And given the size of the stimulus bill, that’s most likely to go up !

I would encourage you to make either of the above links a bookmark and visit it every time you get paid and just maybe it’ll help us all to work to lower them again in the future.

Now, that would be a real stimulus.

amateurpundit Wed, Feb 18, 2009 3:07:26pm

Ok, I'll bite...if man is not the purpose of creation, what is? The Klingons? What, you say nature has no purpose? And how do you know that? No seriously, dead Carl. Why do scientists, who know so much, demand respect for what they don't know? Why do they make such fools of themselves, reaching conclusions that a twelve year old could expose as pretentious nonsense?

You say I have no proof that man IS the purpose of creation? Fair enough. That's why it's called "faith" (duh)...like LGF readers' faith in the ability of random molecules to assemble themselves without intervention into cells more complex than anything man has ever manufactured.

But it is interesting how the same set of facts drive different minds to different conclusions. The great philosophers discuss how contemplation of the greatness of the Creator will inspire humility in man. But, paradoxically, once a man understands that the Creator's universe is larger than his capacity to imagine, instead of inspiring awe in the vastness of a Creator, it makes little minds conclude that, well, obviously, our existence on this speck of a planet has no meaning whatsoever. "Freedom, freedom, prison of the free."

Charles Johnson Wed, Feb 18, 2009 4:25:23pm

re: #56 amateurpundit

Ok, I'll bite...if man is not the purpose of creation, what is? The Klingons?

Not sure if you realize this, but the Klingons are fictional.

What, you say nature has no purpose? And how do you know that? No seriously, dead Carl.

Hey, that's classy! Which church was it that taught you to speak ill of the dead?

ironcladbarrel Wed, Feb 18, 2009 5:45:53pm

Fellow Reptiles,
I come with news from the southern frontier! All hell is breaking loose here on the border. If you ask me, it seems to come from the cia's play-book on protesting and causing chaos. Also, keep your eye the further possible collapse of Mexico.

[Link: www.krgv.com...]
(the 1st link contains videos and reports on the shootings which happened 2/17/2008)
[Link: www.themonitor.com...]
[Link: www.themonitor.com...]
[Link: www.themonitor.com...]

Basho Wed, Feb 18, 2009 8:28:18pm

re: #56 amateurpundit

Why do scientists, who know so much, demand respect for what they don't know?

Despite your stupidity on the meaning of faith, and in chemistry, I will only respond to this section of your rant by quoting Christopher Hitchens:

"That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”

Spy Mode Auto

This article has been archived.
Comments are closed.

Jump to top

Wednesday Morning Open

► LGF Headlines

► Top 10 Comments

► Bottom Comments

► Recent Comments

► Tools/Info

► Tag Cloud