The more we progress the more we tend to progress. We advance not in arithmetical but in geometrical progression. We draw compound interest on the whole capital of knowledge and virtue which has been accumulated since the dawning of time.
— Arthur Conan Doyle
1 |
Fenway_Nation Mon, Jul 20, 2009 11:30:46pm |
But is that compound interest on the capital of knowledge and virtue enough to cover inflation?
| 2 |
freetoken Mon, Jul 20, 2009 11:31:12pm |
We draw compound interest on the whole capital of knowledge...
Homo sapiens... Usurers!
| 3 |
pat Mon, Jul 20, 2009 11:32:02pm |
Knowledge is hardly essential in the Obama administration. Wishful thinking and feelings count for far more.
| 4 |
Dancing along the light of day Mon, Jul 20, 2009 11:32:32pm |
What scares me, is we're spending all the capital, for generations to come! There won't BE any compound interest, except on the debts!
| 5 |
Van Helsing Mon, Jul 20, 2009 11:32:53pm |
re: #3 pat
Knowledge is hardly essential in the Obama administration. Wishful thinking and feelings count for far more.
And an abysmal record for paying the taxes you'll now be levying on 'the little people'.
| 6 |
Van Helsing Mon, Jul 20, 2009 11:33:47pm |
re: #3 pat
Knowledge is hardly essential in the Obama administration. Wishful thinking and feelings count for far more.
Or wisdom. Knowledge/education tempered by experience.
| 7 |
Last Mohican Mon, Jul 20, 2009 11:33:52pm |
Woo hoo! I made it to the overnight open thread! Now, my task complete, I can finally go to sleep.
Good buy all...
| 8 |
Van Helsing Mon, Jul 20, 2009 11:34:51pm |
re: #7 Last Mohican
Woo hoo! I made it to the overnight open thread! Now, my task complete, I can finally go to sleep.
Good buy all...
Sleep well.
| 9 |
Fenway_Nation Mon, Jul 20, 2009 11:35:16pm |
re: #7 Last Mohican
That's what the last mohican that was in here said...
| 11 |
pat Mon, Jul 20, 2009 11:39:25pm |
It is an interesting fact that historically knowledge did not compound itself. Knowledge was often secret or was simply impossible to disseminate because of literacy, geography or politics . The idea of copyright and patents did much to spread information so that it did indeed compound itself. The motivation was often profit. Let us ponder that in this day and age when media are determined to misrepresent analysis, when facts are frequently misstated or ignored, and politicians will represent to the public with a straight face the exact opposite of what they are doing.
| 12 |
Van Helsing Mon, Jul 20, 2009 11:39:52pm |
| 13 |
Van Helsing Mon, Jul 20, 2009 11:40:57pm |
re: #11 pat
It is an interesting fact that historically knowledge did not compound itself. Knowledge was often secret or was simply impossible to disseminate because of literacy, geography or politics . The idea of copyright and patents did much to spread information so that it did indeed compound itself. The motivation was often profit. Let us ponder that in this day and age when media are determined to misrepresent analysis, when facts are frequently misstated or ignored, and politicians will represent to the public with a straight face the exact opposite of what they are doing.
Profit. Scoff. That would be like saying "capitalism works".
Jeez.
/
| 14 |
Flavia Mon, Jul 20, 2009 11:41:29pm |
I've often said the same as he - just not in quite the same way as he... (My guess is that THAT is why I don't get paid the big bucks for saying stuff...)
| 15 |
Syrah Mon, Jul 20, 2009 11:42:25pm |
Arthur Conan Doyle . . . wasn't he involved in the piltdown man hoax? A bit of a prankster I think.
| 16 |
Dancing along the light of day Mon, Jul 20, 2009 11:42:59pm |
re: #14 Flavia
I like the rose in your avatar!
| 17 |
cheechako Mon, Jul 20, 2009 11:44:25pm |
Another Federal Lawsuit against Governor Palin:
Judgment sought against Palin in 'Juneteenth' suit
ANCHORAGE - Plaintiffs in a federal lawsuit against Gov. Sarah Palin asked a judge Friday to declare that she broke state law two years ago when she failed to issue a proclamation for a celebration commemorating the freeing of U.S. slaves.
It never ends.
| 18 |
Dancing along the light of day Mon, Jul 20, 2009 11:46:32pm |
re: #10 redc1c4
"FRUITCUP!!!"
/am i early?
No, you are LATE! The Obamaclock has reset all of your times!
///
( Hi Red!)
| 19 |
Syrah Mon, Jul 20, 2009 11:46:49pm |
re: #11 pat
It is an interesting fact that historically knowledge did not compound itself. Knowledge was often secret or was simply impossible to disseminate because of literacy, geography or politics . The idea of copyright and patents did much to spread information so that it did indeed compound itself. The motivation was often profit. Let us ponder that in this day and age when media are determined to misrepresent analysis, when facts are frequently misstated or ignored, and politicians will represent to the public with a straight face the exact opposite of what they are doing.
The cult of Euclid. The sacred Pythagorean theorem.
Knowledge was the key to power. (Or at least, the key to some serious pocket change.)
It still is.
| 20 |
Fenway_Nation Mon, Jul 20, 2009 11:47:09pm |
re: #17 cheechako
Cato the Elder would approve, I'm sure.
| 21 |
Van Helsing Mon, Jul 20, 2009 11:47:19pm |
re: #17 cheechako
Another Federal Lawsuit against Governor Palin:
Judgment sought against Palin in 'Juneteenth' suit
ANCHORAGE - Plaintiffs in a federal lawsuit against Gov. Sarah Palin asked a judge Friday to declare that she broke state law two years ago when she failed to issue a proclamation for a celebration commemorating the freeing of U.S. slaves.
It never ends.
Whiskey Tango Foxtrot? Suing because of not echoing a pointless federal proclamtion?
I don't get it.
At. All.
| 22 |
Syrah Mon, Jul 20, 2009 11:48:18pm |
re: #13 Van Helsing
Profit. Scoff. That would be like saying "capitalism works".
Jeez./
The point is harassment. Nothing more.
| 23 |
Van Helsing Mon, Jul 20, 2009 11:48:32pm |
re: #19 Syrah
The cult of Euclid. The sacred Pythagorean theorem.
Knowledge was the key to power. (Or at least, the key to some serious pocket change.)
It still is.
SSHHH!!!
FNORD (they weren't supposed to know about that yet!)
| 24 |
Dancing along the light of day Mon, Jul 20, 2009 11:49:12pm |
re: #11 pat
It's just too sad when many people trust "the media" to provide their "news". And "news" has become a 24/7 dog & pony show. Of entertainment, or infotainment, if you prefer.
| 25 |
Syrah Mon, Jul 20, 2009 11:49:16pm |
| 26 |
wiffersnapper Mon, Jul 20, 2009 11:51:57pm |
Help me out, guys.
It's probably a mixture of laziness of not wanting to dig through the LGF history, and there already being some "How to argue against a X" posts on the site, but is there a "how to argue against a ronulan" post somewhere? Just a concentrated trove of information that I can flip to easily?
In the meantime, I'll just keep digging ;)
| 27 |
cheechako Mon, Jul 20, 2009 11:54:19pm |
re: #21 Van Helsing
This harassment would have continued through the rest of her term had she stayed in office.
| 28 |
Syrah Mon, Jul 20, 2009 11:56:11pm |
re: #26 wiffersnapper
Help me out, guys.
It's probably a mixture of laziness of not wanting to dig through the LGF history, and there already being some "How to argue against a X" posts on the site, but is there a "how to argue against a ronulan" post somewhere? Just a concentrated trove of information that I can flip to easily?
In the meantime, I'll just keep digging ;)
First, get out a large bottle of tequilla and a big glass. if you like ice, get some of that too. Do not share this the ronulan. You will need every drop for yourself. Begin drinking. When you finish the bottle, slur something unintelligible at the ronulan. It will be very easy to do. Then pass out.
You will have a grand time. The ronulan will be just as much of a nut as he was before, but you will have had a good time.
| 29 |
Fenway_Nation Mon, Jul 20, 2009 11:56:33pm |
re: #27 cheechako
That's a given...although I thought most of the legal harrassment took the form of ethics complaints.
| 30 |
redc1c4 Mon, Jul 20, 2009 11:57:24pm |
re: #27 cheechako
This harassment would have continued through the rest of her term had she stayed in office.
but the fact that she left means she's a quitter!
/moonbat and wishy washy conservative
| 32 |
calcajun Mon, Jul 20, 2009 11:58:33pm |
re: #1 Fenway_Nation
But is that compound interest on the capital of knowledge and virtue enough to cover inflation?
And what is the ROI on that initial investment of captial and...
hey, there's fruitcup left over!
| 33 |
Fenway_Nation Mon, Jul 20, 2009 11:59:57pm |
re: #32 calcajun
Leave it- if it keeps fermenting, we'll have us some fruitcup pruno!
| 34 |
Syrah Tue, Jul 21, 2009 12:01:34am |
re: #26 wiffersnapper
On a more serious note, arguing with a ronulan is a lot like arguing religion. They are adamant about what they think they know. They will support the world view at all cost, even at the cost of reality.
As a logical exercise, the Socratic method might be the most helpful. Ask questions. Lots of questions. focus on the premises of their worldview. They are weak on their premises. The castles that they have built on their premises are strong.
| 35 |
Dancing along the light of day Tue, Jul 21, 2009 12:01:55am |
re: #26 wiffersnapper
I think there were some good RP rebuttals on this thread...
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]
| 36 |
redc1c4 Tue, Jul 21, 2009 12:02:19am |
FYI to the LNDT, i have an email from LoL, and it seems she stayed up late watching some classic pr0n... not sure which movie, but she say's she might miss the 0200 hack, and asked that i get the usual suspects to do something...Tell Fenway to fire up the Fruitcupitron, or gmsc, Sharmuta, or whoever feels like serving to do it?
red
| 37 |
Dancing along the light of day Tue, Jul 21, 2009 12:02:31am |
re: #33 Fenway_Nation
That sounds nasty...
| 38 |
Dancing along the light of day Tue, Jul 21, 2009 12:03:25am |
re: #36 redc1c4
I nominate redc1c4.
That special mix of alcohol & fruitcup!
| 39 |
Van Helsing Tue, Jul 21, 2009 12:03:44am |
re: #30 redc1c4
but the fact that she left means she's a quitter!
/moonbat and wishy washy conservative
I heard on one of the Fox shows, they were showing an ad 'quitters' (people running for other offices, etc., and the comment was 'what about the cabinet and czar post that left current positions for another?'.
| 41 |
BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Jul 21, 2009 12:04:55am |
re: #17 cheechako
Another Federal Lawsuit against Governor Palin:
Judgment sought against Palin in 'Juneteenth' suit
ANCHORAGE - Plaintiffs in a federal lawsuit against Gov. Sarah Palin asked a judge Friday to declare that she broke state law two years ago when she failed to issue a proclamation for a celebration commemorating the freeing of U.S. slaves.
It never ends.
I'd have to check, but I know there was at least one other suit filed after Palin announced she'd be resigning. I think this might be the third.
| 42 |
SixDegrees Tue, Jul 21, 2009 12:05:50am |
Looks like the media is quietly resurrecting it's practice of announcing 'grim milestones' when it comes to US military involvement, this time in Afghanistan.
Is the bloom starting to come off the rose?
| 43 |
BatGuano Tue, Jul 21, 2009 12:07:06am |
"The more we progress the more we tend to progress. We advance not in arithmetical but in geometrical progression. We draw compound interest on the whole capital of knowledge and virtue which has been accumulated since the dawning of time."
This from a man who believed in every paranormal fraud of his time.
| 44 |
Van Helsing Tue, Jul 21, 2009 12:07:41am |
Undoubtedly old, but good. What we have done... we have squandered.
Great job, but we should have cost to LEO at $100/ lb by now.
Political bastards.
| 45 |
Van Helsing Tue, Jul 21, 2009 12:08:40am |
re: #43 BatGuano
"The more we progress the more we tend to progress. We advance not in arithmetical but in geometrical progression. We draw compound interest on the whole capital of knowledge and virtue which has been accumulated since the dawning of time."
This from a man who believed in every paranormal fraud of his time.
But he FELT it was good. He was SINCERE.
Loved his writing. Loved Holmes.
| 46 |
BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Jul 21, 2009 12:10:27am |
re: #43 BatGuano
"The more we progress the more we tend to progress. We advance not in arithmetical but in geometrical progression. We draw compound interest on the whole capital of knowledge and virtue which has been accumulated since the dawning of time."
This from a man who believed in every paranormal fraud of his time.
It is kind of odd that the man who created Holmes, that avatar of science and logical deduction, also believed in seances and the like.
| 47 |
BatGuano Tue, Jul 21, 2009 12:12:26am |
re: #46 iceweasel
Indeed. It's Like Thomas Jefferson who espoused thrift and living within your means and died deeply in debt.
| 48 |
TheMatrix31 Tue, Jul 21, 2009 12:14:30am |
re: #36 redc1c4
FYI to the LNDT, i have an email from LoL, and it seems she stayed up late watching some classic pr0n... not sure which movie, but she say's she might miss the 0200 hack, and asked that i get the usual suspects to do something...Tell Fenway to fire up the Fruitcupitron, or gmsc, Sharmuta, or whoever feels like serving to do it?
red
LMFAO.
| 49 |
Van Helsing Tue, Jul 21, 2009 12:14:32am |
re: #42 SixDegrees
Looks like the media is quietly resurrecting it's practice of announcing 'grim milestones' when it comes to US military involvement, this time in Afghanistan.
Is the bloom starting to come off the rose?
I was looking real close for that myself. At this point I'm going to write it off to more non-combat losses in Iraq vs the increased losses in Afghanistan. G_d bless them all.
Meaning, the press will report something. Always. Accuracy is secondary. And the old paragraph templates are the easiest to follow.
Can you imagine having heard the news in WWII dealing with any loss of LESS THAN THOUSANDS OF LIVES?
I make it clear that each one of the dead soldiers reported was an horrific loss to family, community and country.
It's the bastards in the media that trivialize it.
| 50 |
Dancing along the light of day Tue, Jul 21, 2009 12:14:46am |
Hola, late night Honcos!
How are you all?
(I'm starting to fade, but can keep the eyelids open a little longer!)
| 51 |
redc1c4 Tue, Jul 21, 2009 12:15:21am |
403): She was so drunk that I kept trying to switch out her wine for water. Sort of like Jesus, but in reverse.
/TFLN FTW!
| 52 |
Van Helsing Tue, Jul 21, 2009 12:15:48am |
re: #50 Floral Giraffe
Hola, late night Honcos!
How are you all?(I'm starting to fade, but can keep the eyelids open a little longer!)
Well, I'm fine.
No Honco me, though.
How are you?
| 54 |
redc1c4 Tue, Jul 21, 2009 12:16:21am |
re: #50 Floral Giraffe
Hola, late night Honcos!
How are you all?(I'm starting to fade, but can keep the eyelids open a little longer!)
you're seeing spots? quit looking in the mirror!
| 55 |
TheMatrix31 Tue, Jul 21, 2009 12:16:33am |
re: #26 wiffersnapper
Help me out, guys.
It's probably a mixture of laziness of not wanting to dig through the LGF history, and there already being some "How to argue against a X" posts on the site, but is there a "how to argue against a ronulan" post somewhere? Just a concentrated trove of information that I can flip to easily?
In the meantime, I'll just keep digging ;)
I'd like something like this too. My boss' buddy's a huge fan of his, and even met him when he was in Washington. I told him the guy is nuts and is associated with neo-Nazis, and he didn't believe me.
| 57 |
Syrah Tue, Jul 21, 2009 12:16:45am |
re: #47 BatGuano
Indeed. It's Like Thomas Jefferson who espoused thrift and living within your means and died deeply in debt.
He knew that thrift and living within your means was good. He was just not very good at doing it himself.
If we were to look closely at our own lives, we might find many instances of where we know that some rule, guide or habit would be good to practice, but don't.
| 58 |
Fenway_Nation Tue, Jul 21, 2009 12:16:52am |
re: #50 Floral Giraffe
That's why god invented caffiene!
/what are the sleeping habits of a plaid penguin, anyway?
| 59 |
redc1c4 Tue, Jul 21, 2009 12:18:25am |
re: #58 Fenway_Nation
That's why god invented caffiene!
/what are the sleeping habits of a plaid penguin, anyway?
dunno... but i'm gonna go soak in the 100*F pool for a few, and do a rat check.
BBiaB!
| 60 |
I Need A Bigger Gun Tue, Jul 21, 2009 12:18:46am |
Does somebody want to explain to me again how Joe Biden is a better Vice-President that what Sarah Palin would have been? If I wanted a Vice-President named Joe, I would have voted for Joe Walsh.
| 61 |
BatGuano Tue, Jul 21, 2009 12:19:26am |
re: #57 Syrah
He knew that thrift and living within your means was good. He was just not very good at doing it himself.
If we were to look closely at our own lives, we might find many instances of where we know that some rule, guide or habit would be good to practice, but don't.
That's true. I am good at dispensing wise counsel; not so good at following it myself.
| 62 |
Dancing along the light of day Tue, Jul 21, 2009 12:19:32am |
re: #52 Van Helsing
Why are you not a Honco?
We can be fun!
| 63 |
SixDegrees Tue, Jul 21, 2009 12:19:49am |
re: #49 Van Helsing
I was looking real close for that myself. At this point I'm going to write it off to more non-combat losses in Iraq vs the increased losses in Afghanistan. G_d bless them all.
Meaning, the press will report something. Always. Accuracy is secondary. And the old paragraph templates are the easiest to follow.
Can you imagine having heard the news in WWII dealing with any loss of LESS THAN THOUSANDS OF LIVES?
I make it clear that each one of the dead soldiers reported was an horrific loss to family, community and country.
It's the bastards in the media that trivialize it.
The press seems to be beginning the drumbeat against the war in Afghanistan. It'll be interesting to see how that develops, relative to the rest of their love affair with the current Administration, and how the Administration responds to what will certainly be escalating criticism from it's former friends and allies in the media.
| 64 |
Dancing along the light of day Tue, Jul 21, 2009 12:20:31am |
re: #54 redc1c4
Spots, on a Giraffe?
Hic! Pass me that spiked fruitcup, please?
;)
| 65 |
Fenway_Nation Tue, Jul 21, 2009 12:21:22am |
re: #60 I Need A Bigger Gun
Didn't know Joe was running...
| 66 |
Dancing along the light of day Tue, Jul 21, 2009 12:22:09am |
re: #55 TheMatrix31
Please see my #35. There was some fine ron paul rebutting on that thread!
| 67 |
calcajun Tue, Jul 21, 2009 12:22:44am |
Well, consider this. In 1800, the main means of land transport was the horse and or carriage and sail-powered ships-- the same as it was in 1700, and in 1600. In 1900, it was steam ships and some cars.
Then, in 1903, the Wrights made the first powered flight at Kitty Hawk, NC. And, less than 70 years later, Armstrong and Aldrin walked on the moon.
What will the next century bring? Will we advance-- or go back to horses and sails?
| 68 |
Dancing along the light of day Tue, Jul 21, 2009 12:22:57am |
re: #58 Fenway_Nation
Under a nice Afghan, of course ;)
| 69 |
TheMatrix31 Tue, Jul 21, 2009 12:23:22am |
re: #66 Floral Giraffe
Please see my #35. There was some fine ron paul rebutting on that thread!
Nice!
| 71 |
Syrah Tue, Jul 21, 2009 12:24:22am |
re: #63 SixDegrees
The press seems to be beginning the drumbeat against the war in Afghanistan. It'll be interesting to see how that develops, relative to the rest of their love affair with the current Administration, and how the Administration responds to what will certainly be escalating criticism from it's former friends and allies in the media.
They believe that all war is bad. Even fighting back is bad. Unless they are thinking about someone that is fighting the US. In that case, War is good.
| 72 |
Fenway_Nation Tue, Jul 21, 2009 12:24:24am |
re: #67 calcajun
Unicorn farts...which I supposed could be harnessed through sail power.
| 73 |
Dancing along the light of day Tue, Jul 21, 2009 12:24:43am |
re: #63 SixDegrees
I can not wait to see the media devour their own creation.
I am patient, but I do see them turning on him.
And, yes, it will be interesting to see the administrations response.
| 74 |
Cheechako Tue, Jul 21, 2009 12:25:44am |
re: #41 iceweasel
I'd have to check, but I know there was at least one other suit filed after Palin announced she'd be resigning. I think this might be the third.
I heard on the radio another ethics complaint was filed today. Something about when she filed her expense accounts. Will have to wait for tomorrow's fish wrapper for details.
| 76 |
calcajun Tue, Jul 21, 2009 12:25:55am |
re: #70 BatGuano
Obama wants horses and sails.
Sails, maybe. Horses leave to much shit in the streets and typhoid is not covered under his health plan.
| 77 |
BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Jul 21, 2009 12:26:09am |
re: #73 Floral Giraffe
I can not wait to see the media devour their own creation.
I am patient, but I do see them turning on him.
And, yes, it will be interesting to see the administrations response.
They'll turn on him. In some ways they already are.
The media is really only in love with itself, with retaining control of the 'narrative', and with anything that makes for a good 'story', in their terms for a 'story.
| 78 |
Fenway_Nation Tue, Jul 21, 2009 12:26:59am |
| 79 |
Van Helsing Tue, Jul 21, 2009 12:27:12am |
re: #63 SixDegrees
The press seems to be beginning the drumbeat against the war in Afghanistan. It'll be interesting to see how that develops, relative to the rest of their love affair with the current Administration, and how the Administration responds to what will certainly be escalating criticism from it's former friends and allies in the media.
They may have a love affair with the current administration but they'll NEVER have a love affair with the wars we are fighting.
I doubt that the current administration's desire to prosecute the war in A-Stan is as deep as it would like us to believe.
'Amid growing media/popular criticism' would be an ideal way to short circuit the success of any surge type tactics starting up now.
Drawdown, withdraw, cite the lack of successful engagements (an inevitability given the new ROEs) and hey, war over. Ain't everyone thrilled now.
And just look at the coin we can throw at the the energy and healthcare stuff!!!
Bonus!.
| 80 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Tue, Jul 21, 2009 12:27:48am |
re: #36 redc1c4
FYI to the LNDT, i have an email from LoL, and it seems she stayed up late watching some classic pr0n... not sure which movie, but she say's she might miss the 0200 hack, and asked that i get the usual suspects to do something...Tell Fenway to fire up the Fruitcupitron, or gmsc, Sharmuta, or whoever feels like serving to do it?
red
I would do it, but I am busy watching contemporary pr0n. Who knows, perhaps I will be finished quicker.
/fewer hairs, and therefore less time wasted on *hack* *hack* *cough* *cough* moments...
| 81 |
BatGuano Tue, Jul 21, 2009 12:28:29am |
re: #76 calcajun
Sails, maybe. Horses leave to much shit in the streets and typhoid is not covered under his health plan.
The horses will not be shitting on his streets and he will not be subject to his own health plan.
| 82 |
Van Helsing Tue, Jul 21, 2009 12:28:55am |
re: #80 Slumbering Behemoth
I would do it, but I am busy watching contemporary pr0n. Who knows, perhaps I will be finished quicker.
/fewer hairs, and therefore less time wasted on *hack* *hack* *cough* *cough* moments...
I'd guess it would depend on what you were watching as to how quick you finished...
/
| 83 |
BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Jul 21, 2009 12:29:09am |
re: #74 Cheechako
I heard on the radio another ethics complaint was filed today. Something about when she filed her expense accounts. Will have to wait for tomorrow's fish wrapper for details.
One filed right after her resignation was also about her expenses. I presume that since that was the only one of the 16 or so ethics complaints that had any kind of minor victory (she had to pay 8K, I think, to cover some expenses) this is the drum they keep banging.
Also, since she was residing at Wasilla instead of in Juneau, they're digging through all her expense reports, travel expenses, etc. to hang something on her.
| 84 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Tue, Jul 21, 2009 12:30:48am |
re: #82 Van Helsing
I'd guess it would depend on what you were watching as to how quick you finished...
/
Really? Not so much.
:hangs head:
/
| 86 |
Van Helsing Tue, Jul 21, 2009 12:31:11am |
re: #81 BatGuano
The horses will not be shitting on his streets and he will not be subject to his own health plan.
Oh so true. Federal employees (may have changed. going on father's experience after 45 years federal service) don't participate in Social Sec. and have a different medical plan.
You wouldn't want EVERYONE to deal with the same rules would you?
| 87 |
BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Jul 21, 2009 12:31:21am |
re: #84 Slumbering Behemoth
Really? Not so much.
:hangs head:
/
Finished already?
///
(couldn't resist)
| 89 |
Van Helsing Tue, Jul 21, 2009 12:32:40am |
re: #87 iceweasel
Finished already?
///(couldn't resist)
Bad iceweasel! Bad!
No weasel treats for you !
| 91 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Tue, Jul 21, 2009 12:33:37am |
re: #67 calcajun
Well, consider this. In 1800, the main means of land transport was the horse and or carriage and sail-powered ships--
Show me a sail-powered ship that transports goods across land, and I'll show you a ... I dunno ... a Salvador Dali painting?
///
| 92 |
Syrah Tue, Jul 21, 2009 12:34:30am |
re: #83 iceweasel
One filed right after her resignation was also about her expenses. I presume that since that was the only one of the 16 or so ethics complaints that had any kind of minor victory (she had to pay 8K, I think, to cover some expenses) this is the drum they keep banging.
Also, since she was residing at Wasilla instead of in Juneau, they're digging through all her expense reports, travel expenses, etc. to hang something on her.
She really scares the sh*t out of them.
| 93 |
BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Jul 21, 2009 12:34:41am |
re: #89 Van Helsing
Bad iceweasel! Bad!
No weasel treats for you !
What, now you're whacking your weasel too?
///
| 94 |
I Need A Bigger Gun Tue, Jul 21, 2009 12:37:05am |
re: #65 Fenway_Nation
Didn't know Joe was running...
I believe he did in '92 and '96... :) Check out his song "Vote for Me", which includes the lyrics "I'd play golf all day with heads of state. If they brought beer wouldn't that be great?" Classic Joe.
| 95 |
BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Jul 21, 2009 12:37:19am |
re: #92 Syrah
She really scares the sh*t out of them.
I don't think that's what's going on. There's a lot of animosity towards her in AK now, much of it from her own party. IIRC, the majority of the earlier complaints were filed from republicans.
This Juneteenth complaint sounds incredibly petty though.
| 96 |
Van Helsing Tue, Jul 21, 2009 12:38:08am |
ROTFLMAO!!!
I didn't know you were mine, but, well...
I ain't sayin' nuffin' else!
| 97 |
sergeant Major Tue, Jul 21, 2009 12:38:47am |
“By profession I am a soldier and take pride in that fact,” “But I am prouder – infinitely prouder – to be a father. A soldier destroys in order to build, the father only builds, never destroys. General MacArthur
A little quote for the over night thread
| 98 |
Syrah Tue, Jul 21, 2009 12:38:49am |
re: #95 iceweasel
I don't think that's what's going on. There's a lot of animosity towards her in AK now, much of it from her own party. IIRC, the majority of the earlier complaints were filed from republicans.
This Juneteenth complaint sounds incredibly petty though.
If they thought she was politically dead, none of this would be going on.
| 99 |
Dancing along the light of day Tue, Jul 21, 2009 12:39:25am |
re: #80 Slumbering Behemoth
TMI!!!
Brain bleach! STAT!
| 100 |
Van Helsing Tue, Jul 21, 2009 12:39:29am |
re: #91 Slumbering Behemoth
Show me a sail-powered ship that transports goods across land, and I'll show you a ... I dunno ... a Salvador Dali painting?
///
That works. Looking at one now - "The Ship" 1942/43.
Loves me Dali.
| 101 |
Fenway_Nation Tue, Jul 21, 2009 12:39:30am |
re: #95 iceweasel
Bullshit- sounds like the dumpster-divers that went up there last year never let up. Wouldn't put it past them to register locally as Republicans while they were up there...
| 103 |
BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Jul 21, 2009 12:40:16am |
re: #98 Syrah
If they thought she was politically dead, none of this would be going on.
Some of it probably would be, because some of it seems motivated by personal animosity and spite.
| 104 |
redc1c4 Tue, Jul 21, 2009 12:40:24am |
re: #60 I Need A Bigger Gun
Does somebody want to explain to me again how Joe Biden is a better Vice-President that what Sarah Palin would have been? If I wanted a Vice-President named Joe, I would have voted for Joe Walsh.
but seriously folks...
| 105 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Tue, Jul 21, 2009 12:40:27am |
re: #87 iceweasel
I could start again, if you like? You'll probably have to get in line behind Racer X, though. That dude is a hardcore voyeur.
/sorry, Racer.
| 106 |
Van Helsing Tue, Jul 21, 2009 12:40:38am |
re: #97 sergeant Major
“By profession I am a soldier and take pride in that fact,” “But I am prouder – infinitely prouder – to be a father. A soldier destroys in order to build, the father only builds, never destroys. General MacArthur
A little quote for the over night thread
Excellent. A profound reminder.
Thanks S'Maj.
| 108 |
BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Jul 21, 2009 12:41:05am |
re: #101 Fenway_Nation
Bullshit- sounds like the dumpster-divers that went up there last year never let up. Wouldn't put it past them to register locally as Republicans while they were up there...
No-- her own party. She pissed off the old boy network up there big time, after all.
| 109 |
redc1c4 Tue, Jul 21, 2009 12:41:07am |
re: #61 BatGuano
That's true. I am good at dispensing wise counsel; not so good at following it myself.
"don't do what i did..."
/sum total of it all...
| 110 |
Syrah Tue, Jul 21, 2009 12:41:15am |
re: #103 iceweasel
Some of it probably would be, because some of it seems motivated by personal animosity and spite.
I think that is a stretch.
| 111 |
Fenway_Nation Tue, Jul 21, 2009 12:41:20am |
| 112 |
garden18 Tue, Jul 21, 2009 12:41:38am |
Unfortunately, the Conan Doyle quote at the beginning of this thread is contradicted by the advent of Obama, a man whose policies will take us back to the Stone Age.
| 113 |
Dancing along the light of day Tue, Jul 21, 2009 12:42:21am |
re: #98 Syrah
"They" are afraid of her. She's hard working, a mother, made her own way in the world, and it just goes on. Presidential material? That has yet to be shown. Certainly she has more practical experience than FCBBHO has.
| 114 |
BatGuano Tue, Jul 21, 2009 12:42:32am |
Speaking of horses:
Just before the Civil war, a circus made a stop in a small town on the way to a larger venue. An elephant wandered off and wound up in a lady's backyard. The woman looked out of her kitchen window and saw the elephant pulling up her flowers with its trunk and eating them. Having never seen an elephant before, she ran out of her house in a panic and went to the Sheriffs office.
"Sheriff! There's a giant horse in my backyard pulling up my flowers with its tail!
"What's it doing with them?", the Sheriff asked.
She replied, "If I told you, you wouldn't believe it!"
| 115 |
Sergeant Major Tue, Jul 21, 2009 12:43:24am |
good night all this is way to late for me..
| 116 |
Fenway_Nation Tue, Jul 21, 2009 12:43:37am |
re: #108 iceweasel
True...I think that little tidbit was held out for some people to say 'Oh gosh- A Republican filed those ethics complaints? I guess they all have merit then'...
/Anyone ever find out who torched her church?
| 117 |
Dancing along the light of day Tue, Jul 21, 2009 12:43:48am |
re: #105 Slumbering Behemoth
You say that 'cause you know Racer X isn't here!
Were you REALLY peeking over the fence?
;)
| 118 |
Van Helsing Tue, Jul 21, 2009 12:44:46am |
I have no affiliation with this blog - A**hats and Aardvarks... but it is quite amusing at times.
If I've violated some unwritten blog rule I'll gladly have one of the Piranha bothers chain me to the back of thank and take me for a little scrape to see...
Dinsdale.
Bada bruumm... (music of doom).
| 119 |
BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Jul 21, 2009 12:45:03am |
re: #102 laZardo
Hey, there's nothing wrong with going solo hiking on a secluded trail.
///
I'll say this for Mark Sanford-- at least he's contributed some new idioms to our discourse, like "Appalachian Fail" for "really bad coverstory for sexual indiscretion."
Girl 1: What happened? Where was he all weekend?
G2: He said his grandmother died, he had to fly to Cancun to be by her deathbed, and he forgot his cell phone.
G1: Umm...aren't both his grandmothers already dead?
g2: Yup. Total Appalachian Fail.
| 120 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Tue, Jul 21, 2009 12:45:48am |
re: #100 Van Helsing
That works. Looking at one now - "The Ship" 1942/43.
Loves me Dali.
And you post this without providing a link? For shame!
/
Here's another.
| 121 |
Van Helsing Tue, Jul 21, 2009 12:47:06am |
re: #112 garden18
Unfortunately, the Conan Doyle quote at the beginning of this thread is contradicted by the advent of Obama, a man whose policies will take us back to the Stone Age.
Nawww, no worse than the early Iron Age.
Think 'Dark Ages'.
Um, as a suggestion, find the local Society for Creative Anachronism people.
They already KNOW how to live there and have fun doing it!
| 123 |
Van Helsing Tue, Jul 21, 2009 12:48:03am |
re: #120 Slumbering Behemoth
Ya got me. The first link is the one on me wall.
Thanks for the second.
| 124 |
BatGuano Tue, Jul 21, 2009 12:49:16am |
re: #76 calcajun
Sails, maybe. Horses leave to much shit in the streets and typhoid is not covered under his health plan.
1st man: Who was that?
2nd man: Must be Obama.
1st man: How can you tell?
2nd man: He doesn't have shit all over him.
| 125 |
Van Helsing Tue, Jul 21, 2009 12:49:16am |
re: #119 iceweasel
'Appalachian Fail'.
Damn funny, that.
| 126 |
Van Helsing Tue, Jul 21, 2009 12:49:59am |
re: #124 BatGuano
Well, LOL. Good Sacred Grail application.
| 127 |
BatGuano Tue, Jul 21, 2009 12:51:28am |
re: #126 Van Helsing
Monty Python must be observed on all threads. Amen.
I'll be here all the week.
| 128 |
BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Jul 21, 2009 12:53:03am |
re: #116 Fenway_Nation
True...I think that little tidbit was held out for some people to say 'Oh gosh- A Republican filed those ethics complaints? I guess they all have merit then'...
No, her own party was pissed off with her because she'd always bucked the system up there. The whole AK system is famously corrupt, which was one of the things she had going for her up there-- she had the image of a reformer, she did introduce new ethics legislation, and she went against the old boy GOP network up there.
It was highly possible that if she ran for a second term, there would even be a primary battle.
Note: I'm not saying "the complaints must have merit", just that she had a lot of political enemies up there and it wasn't nearly as simple as 'mean librhulz hate Palin'.
(She had better relations with the Dems up there than she did her own party, prior to her nomination. When she got back, pretty much everyone hated her, not just her own party.)
| 129 |
Dancing along the light of day Tue, Jul 21, 2009 12:53:34am |
re: #127 BatGuano
Run away! Run away!
| 130 |
calcajun Tue, Jul 21, 2009 12:54:35am |
re: #91 Slumbering Behemoth
Well...oh, intercourse the sails. It's late dammit.
| 131 |
calcajun Tue, Jul 21, 2009 12:55:07am |
re: #127 BatGuano
Monty Python must be observed on all threads. Amen.
I'll be here all the week.
You'll be turned into a newt.
| 132 |
BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Jul 21, 2009 12:55:47am |
re: #125 Van Helsing
'Appalachian Fail'.
Damn funny, that.
I can't take credit, it was one of the less obscene nicknames the leftysphere came up with for him while he was 'missing'.
Apparently when you hike the AT, you get a trail nickname. A few blogs ran contests as to what his should be. This was my favourite. :)
| 133 |
Dancing along the light of day Tue, Jul 21, 2009 12:56:32am |
re: #128 iceweasel
From what I have seen, she was willing to take on "the local power structure" and all of it's corruptness, and show it in the full sunlight. And cooperate in the trials, to get the corruption out in daylight. And get it exposed for what it was. And, it was mostly within her own party. Never a popular position. All the more KUDOS to Sarah, for the fight. IMHO.
| 134 |
Dancing along the light of day Tue, Jul 21, 2009 12:56:59am |
re: #131 calcajun
But, it got better!
| 135 |
BatGuano Tue, Jul 21, 2009 12:57:58am |
| 137 |
BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Jul 21, 2009 12:58:37am |
re: #133 Floral Giraffe
From what I have seen, she was willing to take on "the local power structure" and all of it's corruptness, and show it in the full sunlight. And cooperate in the trials, to get the corruption out in daylight. And get it exposed for what it was. And, it was mostly within her own party. Never a popular position. All the more KUDOS to Sarah, for the fight. IMHO.
That's exactly right. The majority of the ethics complaints prior to her resignation were coming from the GOP old boys as payback. They were also obstructing her in various ways.
| 138 |
Dancing along the light of day Tue, Jul 21, 2009 1:00:42am |
re: #137 iceweasel
More power to her, for doing the right thing.
How come we don't have MORE politicians doing this kind of right thing?
I'm not trying to be partisan, but...
If it stinks, it stinks.
And there seems to be PLENTY of stinking around.
Why not more exposures???
| 139 |
BatGuano Tue, Jul 21, 2009 1:01:02am |
| 140 |
calcajun Tue, Jul 21, 2009 1:01:11am |
re: #125 Van Helsing
'Appalachian Fail'.
Damn funny, that.
I thought "Apparition Spring" would be a good title for a story.
or, "Appellation Spring" -- take your pick
| 144 |
I Need A Bigger Gun Tue, Jul 21, 2009 1:02:40am |
re: #98 Syrah
If they thought she was politically dead, none of this would be going on.
She's not politically dead right now, but they want to make sure she is by 2012. If she makes a run, the good thing about all of this coming out now is that when the closet opens, there won't be any skeletons jumping out.
| 145 |
freetoken Tue, Jul 21, 2009 1:03:51am |
re: #86 Van Helsing
Oh so true. Federal employees (may have changed. going on father's experience after 45 years federal service) don't participate in Social Sec. and have a different medical plan.
Not true. Under the Federal Employees Retirement System (FERS), Social Security is a major component, as far as retirement pay. FERS was started about 20 years ago, to replace the old CSRS. There are undoubtedly still some Federal employees working under CSRS, as they were given a choice when FERS was introduced, but by now most Federal employees should be on FERS.
Medical insurance, if I understand this correctly, for Federal employees is still a choice system, based on a limited selection of insurance options offered (depending upon locale.)
| 146 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Tue, Jul 21, 2009 1:04:42am |
re: #123 Van Helsing
A print, I presume. I have nothing from him, but his work fascinates me.
I once heard that in his waning years, he would take friends out to eat and drink heartily, insisting on paying the entire bill himself.
When the bill came due, he would pay with a check. But before signing the check on the front, he would sketch something characteristic of his style on the back.
In this way, he would get many robust, drunken meals for himself and his friends for free. Because, who send such a thing to the bank to be cashed? Better to hang on to an original, one of a kind, signed Dali sketch, no?
I have no idea if this story is true, but if it is, Dali was one clever SOB.
| 147 |
Syrah Tue, Jul 21, 2009 1:04:58am |
re: #128 iceweasel
What I know about Alaskan Republicans and Alaskan Republican party politics is from anecdotal experiance.
If the stories that some former Alaskan Republicans told us were true, for them, Party Affiliation is one thing, and party loyalty is something else altogether. In a one party state, everyone may be wearing the same label, but it may not mean much if anything at all.
The most difficult people that I had to work with in the Washington State caucuses were Alaskan Republican transplants whose understanding of party politics was decidedly skewed. The label meant little to them. The reminded me a lot of the Perot voters from a few decades before. They want politicians who will get under the hood and get things done, without much concern for what that meant or what that would entail.
They were McCain supporters. Worse, they thought he was too conservative.
| 148 |
laZardo Tue, Jul 21, 2009 1:06:59am |
re: #111 Fenway_Nation
One must strangle the wild Whackalachian chicken into unconsciousness (not death) in order to become a true warrior.
| 149 |
BatGuano Tue, Jul 21, 2009 1:07:36am |
re: #144 I Need A Bigger Gun
Corrupt power corrupts absolute and absolute corrupt power absolutely corrupts absolute power.
you may quote me on that.
Bat.
| 150 |
BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Jul 21, 2009 1:07:46am |
re: #138 Floral Giraffe
More power to her, for doing the right thing.
How come we don't have MORE politicians doing this kind of right thing?
I'm not trying to be partisan, but...
If it stinks, it stinks.
And there seems to be PLENTY of stinking around.
Why not more exposures???
I'm not even a fan of Palin's, mind. At all. But she's definitely been the subject of unfair attacks (esp sexist ones). And as for her resignation, I do think she should have finished her term, but she was in for a world of hurt for those 18 months as governor, from what I've read. On the state legislative level because of the established GOP and because the Dems no longer liked her either. To say nothing of the continuing attacks she was facing from the media-- all of that has to take a personal toll.
My guess is she'll finish the book, grab that money, do a national book tour to keep her in the public eye-- all of that could position her for a run at 2012, if that's what she wants to do.
Don't laugh, but I could see her running some kind of talk show instead. She would make oodles of cash, be wildly popular, and she could be extremely influential politically without running for office. Can't you see her heading up a right version of the View, or something like that?
| 151 |
laZardo Tue, Jul 21, 2009 1:08:25am |
re: #144 I Need A Bigger Gun
They are going to have to rely on the "internet impressions" of her, which look to still hold strong by then.
| 152 |
Fenway_Nation Tue, Jul 21, 2009 1:09:58am |
re: #150 iceweasel
Heh...I've heard that being floated around before, too. Payback against 0prah for not having her on the show?
| 153 |
Van Helsing Tue, Jul 21, 2009 1:10:33am |
re: #145 freetoken
Not true. Under the Federal Employees Retirement System (FERS), Social Security is a major component, as far as retirement pay. FERS was started about 20 years ago, to replace the old CSRS. There are undoubtedly still some Federal employees working under CSRS, as they were given a choice when FERS was introduced, but by now most Federal employees should be on FERS.
Medical insurance, if I understand this correctly, for Federal employees is still a choice system, based on a limited selection of insurance options offered (depending upon locale.)
Yuppers. I cheap out. My dad is 82 and retired 25 years ago. Had civilian service that bridged to military service that bridged back to civilian service.
Retired using his 3.5 YEARS of accrued and unused sick time... to end up, lessee, out of service at 62.5 while being 57.5...
He was as IRC retired in 1982 and began hiking the Pacific Crest Trail.
Still having more fun them me.
Lovable ole bastard...
| 154 |
laZardo Tue, Jul 21, 2009 1:11:42am |
re: #150 iceweasel
She's already got her own video game. That oughta secure the hormonal-nerdy-youth vote.
| 155 |
Van Helsing Tue, Jul 21, 2009 1:11:47am |
re: #146 Slumbering Behemoth
Oh yeah. Just a print.
I wish otherwise...
Fantastic mind and artist...
| 156 |
BatGuano Tue, Jul 21, 2009 1:12:21am |
re: #150 iceweasel
I actually agree with you, generally. Ya' know, you could become a fine Republican. :)
| 157 |
Sharmuta Tue, Jul 21, 2009 1:12:52am |
A Sarah Palin talk show would likely be successful. The one thing I think she could promote that everyone would agree on is corruption. It's a bi-partisan issues that most people can agree should be stopped.
| 158 |
BatGuano Tue, Jul 21, 2009 1:13:59am |
re: #157 Sharmuta
A Sarah Palin talk show would likely be successful. The one thing I think she could promote that everyone would agree on is corruption. It's a bi-partisan issues that most people can agree should be stopped.
I was gonna say that after you posted it. :)
| 159 |
Van Helsing Tue, Jul 21, 2009 1:14:13am |
re: #148 laZardo
One must strangle the wild Whackalachian chicken into unconsciousness (not death) in order to become a true warrior.
Is this some rude, tiny minded reference to 'choking the chichen'?
Well? Is it?
Cuz if it is I just want to say right now that I know Nothing About Such Practices!!111one~!"
For the record.
| 160 |
BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Jul 21, 2009 1:14:34am |
re: #147 Syrah
You'd know far more than I about AK Republicans on the ground. I'm just talking about the ones holding elected office-- that GOP establishment. I'm getting this (largely) from AK bloggers.
From what I've read it does seem like AK is very different (and proudly different) from us "Outside" on the individual level, in terms of what party affiliation etc means. Like the AIP there-- if we had a large secessionist party in any of the other states it would be cause for alarm, but there it isn't really a big deal, and is more of an expression of disliking other parties than it is an actual desire to secede from the union (so ex-Alaskans have explained it to me).
| 161 |
Sharmuta Tue, Jul 21, 2009 1:15:29am |
Syrah- I've started re-reading Conflict again. Just as thought provoking the second time.
| 162 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Tue, Jul 21, 2009 1:15:59am |
re: #139 BatGuano
Your Kung Fu is the best!
I assure you, it has nothing to do with his/her drinking.
/
| 163 |
BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Jul 21, 2009 1:16:53am |
re: #156 BatGuano
I actually agree with you, generally. Ya' know, you could become a fine Republican. :)
And I showed you the other night that you're already a fine feminist. :)
I have this theory that a lot of us on the 'left' and 'right' actually have a lot in common. The ideological lines currently dividing us should be redrawn, because they're not helpful.
| 164 |
Dancing along the light of day Tue, Jul 21, 2009 1:18:14am |
re: #150 iceweasel
Well, yes, I suppose she could go down the path you outline. I would hope that she would NOT. I would hope that if she chooses to abandon her career in politics, that she return to private life & enjoy it immensely.
I think that she is smart enough to figure out what she wants & go for the gold ring!
| 165 |
Sharmuta Tue, Jul 21, 2009 1:19:37am |
re: #163 iceweasel
And I showed you the other night that you're already a fine feminist. :)
I have this theory that a lot of us on the 'left' and 'right' actually have a lot in common. The ideological lines currently dividing us should be redrawn, because they're not helpful.
That's why I use the dichotomy of the visions now. There are people on the left and right that have a more constrained vision as there are people on both the left and right that have non-constrained visions.
| 166 |
Syrah Tue, Jul 21, 2009 1:20:01am |
re: #161 Sharmuta
Syrah- I've started re-reading Conflict again. Just as thought provoking the second time.
Looking at your comment from a moment earlier, how do you think the constrained and the unconstrained would define corruption? If one is process oriented and the other is results oriented, shouldn't we expect them to see corruption in different ways? i.e. - If a desired result is reached, is the corruption really all that bad?
| 167 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Tue, Jul 21, 2009 1:20:13am |
re: #157 Sharmuta
I think that would be an awesome and effective fit for her. A ratings goldmine on any network that would have her.
I don't think she has any chance at a 2012 POTUS run. 2016? Maybe. But not 2012.
| 168 |
Van Helsing Tue, Jul 21, 2009 1:20:34am |
re: #163 iceweasel
And I showed you the other night that you're already a fine feminist. :)
I have this theory that a lot of us on the 'left' and 'right' actually have a lot in common. The ideological lines currently dividing us should be redrawn, because they're not helpful.
I wish I could ding you up a dozen times for that statement.
There are sooo many people I know that don't identify with either party because of extreme and (in my opinion irrelevant to the role of FEDERAL government) positions that the current parties are sooo committed to.
It's going to be an interesting year.
| 169 |
Dancing along the light of day Tue, Jul 21, 2009 1:21:26am |
re: #162 Slumbering Behemoth
HEH! I resemble that! And, not the Jackie Chan part...
| 170 |
Van Helsing Tue, Jul 21, 2009 1:23:56am |
re: #157 Sharmuta
A Sarah Palin talk show would likely be successful. The one thing I think she could promote that everyone would agree on is corruption. It's a bi-partisan issues that most people can agree should be stopped.
How would corruption be defined?
Currently it seems to trend along the same lines as ' I'm not and you are' and I've no acceptable ideas of how deal with it.
I've ideas, but they make 'draconian' look like halfway measures.
| 171 |
Dancing along the light of day Tue, Jul 21, 2009 1:24:03am |
Dear Lizards, it's time to say "gooodnight" and goo off & get more sleepy.
Thank you all for the ideas & discourse.
Stay scaly & I will see you later!
With spiked fruitcup, but not tonight!
| 173 |
BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Jul 21, 2009 1:25:47am |
re: #157 Sharmuta
A Sarah Palin talk show would likely be successful. The one thing I think she could promote that everyone would agree on is corruption. It's a bi-partisan issues that most people can agree should be stopped.
hey Sharm! What's up???
I'd say these are three issues that could crosscut our current parties and draw a lot of support from both (and people in the middle):
1) Anti-corruption. No one likes corruption; most want it stopped.
2) personal liberty. All Americans value it. One expression on the left is wanting gov't out of our bedrooms and not interfering with a woman's reproductive choices. One expression on the right is not wanting gov't to take away guns. Similar impulse here though, and a party or movement that reframed all these social issues in terms of personal liberty and preserving it would get a lot of support from both parties. I don't own a gun, but I don't care if someone else does. Someone else might not like abortion...but they also don't like the idea of women being forced to carry a pregnancy they don't want to term.
3) fiscal conservatism. No one likes spending more money than we have to; most people would agree that there's waste in gov't and it needs to be cut.
The joint venture party!
| 174 |
Sharmuta Tue, Jul 21, 2009 1:26:15am |
re: #166 Syrah
Interesting thought. I'm not sure if the desired result is achieved if corruption would be viewed harshly by the unconstrained. Unfavorable results are likely seen as process corruption by the unconstrained. I would hope the constrained would be bothered by corruption whether is was a systemic process or results.
| 175 |
Dancing along the light of day Tue, Jul 21, 2009 1:26:26am |
PIMF.
PIMF.
I do NOT "goo" off on anything.
YUCK!
It was meant to be "go off" but it got ICKY!
Time to sleep, and beyond.
Yuck, my typing & lack of PV!
G'night!
| 176 |
Sharmuta Tue, Jul 21, 2009 1:27:57am |
re: #173 iceweasel
I was hanging around, waiting for you, Girl.
I totally love the Joint Venture party. Could convince a lot of folks to re-examine their thinking. Who knows?
| 177 |
Van Helsing Tue, Jul 21, 2009 1:29:27am |
re: #176 Sharmuta
I was hanging around, waiting for you, Girl.
I totally love the Joint Venture party. Could convince a lot of folks to re-examine their thinking. Who knows?
Here's the problem with the "Joint Venture Party"...
You've just got the NORML whackos attached to you.
| 179 |
Syrah Tue, Jul 21, 2009 1:30:08am |
re: #174 Sharmuta
Interesting thought. I'm not sure if the desired result is achieved if corruption would be viewed harshly by the unconstrained. Unfavorable results are likely seen as process corruption by the unconstrained. I would hope the constrained would be bothered by corruption whether is was a systemic process or results.
I was trying to think of what process oriented corruption would be. The only thing that I have been able to think of was for the constrained to be too forgiving of long standing (traditions) of corruption. The constrained are willing to forgive or fail to oppose things that are traditional or "time honored" even when they are clearly wrong.
| 180 |
BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Jul 21, 2009 1:30:11am |
re: #168 Van Helsing
I wish I could ding you up a dozen times for that statement.
There are sooo many people I know that don't identify with either party because of extreme and (in my opinion irrelevant to the role of FEDERAL government) positions that the current parties are sooo committed to.
It's going to be an interesting year.
I think it's going to be an interesting 5 years to see how this shakes out.
More Americans than ever before identify as independent. I'm most definitely on the left and I'd call myself a progressive--- but all the people I know in that category are at least as disgusted with the Dems as we are Republicans. I'm not even registered Dem.
In terms of how people are feeling, the time seems ripe for a third party. There have been mutterings for a long time of course (Perot, Nader) but now it seems widespread.-- and centrist.
| 181 |
Van Helsing Tue, Jul 21, 2009 1:30:43am |
re: #176 Sharmuta
Not that is a problem for me, but for a mainstream party, it is as toxic as nationalism.
| 182 |
BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Jul 21, 2009 1:32:29am |
re: #176 Sharmuta
I was hanging around, waiting for you, Girl.
I totally love the Joint Venture party. Could convince a lot of folks to re-examine their thinking. Who knows?
Awesome. Yay girlfriend! brb
love, icedub
| 183 |
wahabicorridor Tue, Jul 21, 2009 1:33:11am |
morning lizardia.
Well, everthing is still Bush's fault
Teenage pregnancies and syphilis have risen sharply among a generation of American school girls who were urged to avoid sex before marriage under George Bush's evangelically-driven education policy, according to a new report by the US's major public health body.
In a report that will surprise few of Bush's critics on the issue, the Centres for Disease Control says years of falling rates of teenage pregnancies and sexually transmitted disease infections under previous administrations were reversed or stalled in the Bush years
| 184 |
laZardo Tue, Jul 21, 2009 1:33:30am |
re: #174 Sharmuta
My suggestion is that there should be a new party no longer constrained to the political machine, preferably to the "left" of the existing Democratic Party.
And I suggest 'left' mainly because of the failures of the so-called 'right wing' and 'conservative' values over the past few years. Fiscal conservatism and the allowance of civil liberties would fit into libertarianism (lowercase 'l') and not actually hold any partisan link.
| 185 |
SixDegrees Tue, Jul 21, 2009 1:35:32am |
re: #76 calcajun
Sails, maybe. Horses leave to much shit in the streets and typhoid is not covered under his health plan.
Sails are making a comeback. Several companies are already deploying them from oil tankers as a means of saving fuel. Although they're lofted high above the ship on cables, making them more like kites.
| 186 |
Sharmuta Tue, Jul 21, 2009 1:36:53am |
re: #181 Van Helsing
Not that is a problem for me, but for a mainstream party, it is as toxic as nationalism.
Interestingly enough- fascists are anti-drug.
I don't really give a damn if a person is cool with others smoking weed or not- it's a matter of principles. For me, the "Joint Venture Party" joke is about getting people to think deeper about their positions. Don't tell me you're for limited government or for individual rights if you're not going to allow people to smoke a joint. If you can say that with a straight face, you might need to rethink where you're coming from. As Dr Sowell said:
We will do almost anything for our visions, except think about them.
People need to start thinking about them or this Republic is screwed.
| 187 |
wahabicorridor Tue, Jul 21, 2009 1:38:08am |
Letters to Mum from a Brit in Afghanistan.
Hello its me, this is gonna be hard for you to read but I write this knowing every time you thinks shits got to much for you to handle (so don't cry on it MUM!!) you can read this and hopefully it will help you all get through.
| 188 |
Sharmuta Tue, Jul 21, 2009 1:38:51am |
Also- I was handing out karma quite liberally to celebrate the return of normal page loads and catch up on two weeks of low dinging. Can't give you guys dings if you don't speak up.
| 189 |
Van Helsing Tue, Jul 21, 2009 1:39:15am |
re: #180 iceweasel
I think it's going to be an interesting 5 years to see how this shakes out.
More Americans than ever before identify as independent. I'm most definitely on the left and I'd call myself a progressive--- but all the people I know in that category are at least as disgusted with the Dems as we are Republicans. I'm not even registered Dem.
In terms of how people are feeling, the time seems ripe for a third party. There have been mutterings for a long time of course (Perot, Nader) but now it seems widespread.-- and centrist.
Huh. Left of my views... never would have known... ;-)
As you are discussing with Sharmuta, there has to be a BETTER alternative to what we have now.
The candidates are too polarized, catering to the extremes in both parties and that gets anyone who cares about the COUNTRY (and I do care about the USA, the ideals it was founded upon and the future it promised to all those huddling masses, my family included) that we get no where.
I'm not capable of running for office (my background would instantly disqualify me, sorry, ex-biker) but I need SOMETHING to throw at least influence upon that isn't POINTLESS (liek voting for Mc Cain, because he was the LEAST commie bastard.
| 190 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Tue, Jul 21, 2009 1:41:31am |
re: #169 Floral Giraffe
A few "arcade fighters" have characters whose moves are modeled after Jackie Chan's moves in that film. The Dead Or Alive series being one, and the Virtua Fighter (sorry, no link) series being another.
| 191 |
Sharmuta Tue, Jul 21, 2009 1:42:42am |
The University of Michigan has an interesting way of cutting back costs- admitting medical mistakes up front:
Saying `sorry' pays off for U. of Michigan doctors
The willingness to admit mistakes goes well beyond decency and has proven a shrewd business strategy, according to a 2009 article in the "Journal of Health & Life Sciences Law" by Boothman and four colleagues at the Ann Arbor school.
According to Boothman, malpractice claims against his health system fell from 121 in 2001 to 61 in 2006, while the backlog of open claims went from 262 in 2001 to 106 in 2006 and 83 in 2007. Between 2001 and 2007, the average time to process a claim fell from about 20 months to about eight months, costs per claim were halved and insurance reserves dropped by two-thirds.
| 192 |
BatGuano Tue, Jul 21, 2009 1:44:54am |
re: #173 iceweasel
Joint venture party!. Now you sound like a venture capitalist. My kind of girl!
| 193 |
Van Helsing Tue, Jul 21, 2009 1:45:18am |
re: #186 Sharmuta
I wasn't looking at it that way.
I'm trying to think of a way there can be party that can take the stuff most of the population agrees on and can still allow the fringes to be heard.
Dunno. I'm just an old engineer. We make compromises alll the time and my way of dealing with Holy Warriors has never been pretty - for them.
Gotta get to bed. Thanks for the interaction. I'll check the post stuff later today.
I'm quite serious - a valid third party is needed, What and How does that happen?
| 194 |
Sharmuta Tue, Jul 21, 2009 1:47:02am |
re: #193 Van Helsing
Why should any mainstream party allow the fringes to be heard? They can get their own fringe parties.
| 195 |
BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Jul 21, 2009 1:47:03am |
re: #184 laZardo
My suggestion is that there should be a new party no longer constrained to the political machine, preferably to the "left" of the existing Democratic Party.
And I suggest 'left' mainly because of the failures of the so-called 'right wing' and 'conservative' values over the past few years. Fiscal conservatism and the allowance of civil liberties would fit into libertarianism (lowercase 'l') and not actually hold any partisan link.
W00t!
Go left!
*happy dance*
| 196 |
Sharmuta Tue, Jul 21, 2009 1:48:37am |
re: #192 BatGuano
Joint venture party!. Now you sound like a venture capitalist. My kind of girl!
The Joint Venture Party stands for fiscal restraint and individual liberty. We'll be running on a platform to decriminalize marijuana and pass the balanced budget amendment.
| 197 |
Sharmuta Tue, Jul 21, 2009 1:49:07am |
re: #195 iceweasel
Hey, You. I meant I was waiting for you...
| 198 |
BatGuano Tue, Jul 21, 2009 1:51:11am |
re: #196 Sharmuta
The Joint Venture Party stands for fiscal restraint and individual liberty. We'll be running on a platform to decriminalize marijuana and pass the balanced budget amendment.
I'm for both of those planks.
| 199 |
Syrah Tue, Jul 21, 2009 1:51:46am |
re: #193 Van Helsing
I'm quite serious - a valid third party is needed, What and How does that happen?
In our winner take all district system, third party's are ephemeral aberrations, or just crank collectors.
When one of the two major parties collapses, another will take its place. It would more likely then not be little more than a redo of the failed party with a few small changes.
Our present system makes it very difficult if not near to impossible for a third party to ever get more than 5% of the vote.
| 200 |
BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Jul 21, 2009 1:52:05am |
re: #189 Van Helsing
The candidates are too polarized, catering to the extremes in both parties and that gets anyone who cares about the COUNTRY (and I do care about the USA, the ideals it was founded upon and the future it promised to all those huddling masses, my family included) that we get no where.I'm not capable of running for office (my background would instantly disqualify me, sorry, ex-biker) but I need SOMETHING to throw at least influence upon that isn't POINTLESS (liek voting for Mc Cain, because he was the LEAST commie bastard.
I don't think the candidates are always too polarised. The Dems are not catering to the left, although I know people on the right see them this way. They're barely to the left at all.
I do think that virtually all politicans wind up catering to money.
ex-biker? I used to have a bike. Tell us more!
| 202 |
laZardo Tue, Jul 21, 2009 1:52:35am |
re: #196 Sharmuta
The Joint Venture Party stands for fiscal restraint and individual liberty. We'll be running on a platform to decriminalize marijuana and pass the balanced budget amendment.
Well, you've got my vote.
| 203 |
BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Jul 21, 2009 1:52:45am |
re: #197 Sharmuta
Hey, You. I meant I was waiting for you...
i saw your computer issues are fixed! Yay! My houseguests left today. Whee!
| 204 |
wahabicorridor Tue, Jul 21, 2009 1:54:07am |
Ok, this is the moral insanity of the left - many of whom hate religion as mere superstition to begin with but want Sunday's in France to be held 'sacred'.
On top of workers' rights issues, it is the thought of living in a never-ending stream of productivity and labour that irks me. What space would be left to be free from materialism? Being uncomfortable with today's consumer-oriented society, I am sympathetic to the concept of la décroissance (or degrowth) and the French anti-productivist movements, which question whether or not economic growth really is desirable from ecological, social and economic viewpoints. For that reason, introducing measures encouraging us to spend in a desperate attempt to "boost the economy" leaves me with a bitter taste in my mouth.
[ ]
Back when I was a teenager and first visited London, I marvelled at being able to go shopping on Oxford Street on Sundays. A decade later, I wish we could make Sundays a safe space from commercialism. I want to imagine days spent taking walks in forests
| 206 |
Sharmuta Tue, Jul 21, 2009 1:54:30am |
re: #193 Van Helsing
Unlike other political parties that tell you they stand for one thing, and yet do another, the Joint Venture party would not only talk the talk, we'll walk the walk. I like to think Buckley would approve.
| 208 |
Gus Tue, Jul 21, 2009 1:55:24am |
re: #183 wahabicorridor
morning lizardia.
Here's the actual report:
Sexual and Reproductive Health of Persons Aged 10–24 Years — United States, 2002–2007
Surveillance Summaries July 17, 2009 / Vol. 58 / No. SS-6
I found nothing in the report that reflect many of the conclusion drawn in that article. In fact in the conclusion you will find:
The data presented in this report are subject to several limitations. First, self-reported data are subject to social desirability and response bias. Second, cases of disease often remain undetected and are unreported. Third, estimating pregnancy rates is challenging because of the difficulty in measuring the number of abortions and fetal losses. Finally, the data summarized in this report describe risk behaviors and negative reproductive health outcomes among young persons, but the data do not explain the causes of sexual risk behavior nor what interventions are most effective. Research is needed that identifies both the key determinants of sexual risk behavior and those interventions that are effective in reducing risk behavior.
Despite these limitations, understanding temporal trends and which subpopulations are at greatest risk is a critical first step that guides other public health action. Practitioners can use the information provided in this report when making decisions about how to allocate resources and identify those subpopulations that are in greatest need. Researchers can use the information provided in this report to guide future study on youths at highest risk to better understand the causes of sexual risk behavior and ways to reduce it. Finally, policy makers can use the information provided in this report to justify expanded funding of effective programs, new research on innovative intervention strategies, and continued monitoring of sexual risk behavior and reproductive health outcomes.
The summary can be found on pages 1 and 2. Overall it reflects a flattening or slight uptick in rates. The final paragraph in the conclusion provides a good foundation for steps to be taken to reduce the uptick and reverse the static data.
| 210 |
Van Helsing Tue, Jul 21, 2009 1:58:33am |
re: #194 Sharmuta
I didn't go to bed.
Was not the fringe of the dem party a huge factor in getting CRBBHO elected?
I agree completely, we HAVE 2 parties. There should be a way to make the most of the common ground between them to do WHAT IS BEST FOR THE COUNTRY, NOT THE PARTY!
Where does it start? Myself, I think if the federal government withdrew to it's mandated bounds and we moved forward from there, life would be great.
The big question is how to get the feds to withdraw that far?
I'm serious, folks. this stuff is getting completely out of hand. I don't want to see the F***ups start getting enough support for an armed revolution.
| 211 |
laZardo Tue, Jul 21, 2009 1:59:31am |
re: #185 SixDegrees
Sails are making a comeback. Several companies are already deploying them from oil tankers as a means of saving fuel. Although they're lofted high above the ship on cables, making them more like kites.
And when the tankers run into pirates, they open up portholes that reveal guided missiles. The captured ones will walk the Olympic-regulation diving board.
| 212 |
Fenway_Nation Tue, Jul 21, 2009 2:00:09am |
Good morning, good afternoon and good evening everybody- fruitcup is now on the buffet!
--->
| 213 |
Gus Tue, Jul 21, 2009 2:01:15am |
re: #212 Fenway_Nation
Good morning, good afternoon and good evening everybody- fruitcup is now on the buffet!
--->
Are you the stand in? ;)
| 214 |
laZardo Tue, Jul 21, 2009 2:01:20am |
re: #183 wahabicorridor
When stuff is made more "forbidden," it makes doing that sort of stuff a lot more tempting. q; That's why Catholic school girls tend to be so hot.
| 215 |
Fenway_Nation Tue, Jul 21, 2009 2:01:55am |
| 216 |
BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Jul 21, 2009 2:02:03am |
re: #208 Gus 802
The summary can be found on pages 1 and 2. Overall it reflects a flattening or slight uptick in rates. The final paragraph in the conclusion provides a good foundation for steps to be taken to reduce the uptick and reverse the static data.
Correlation isn't causation. That there's a slight uptick in rates correlated with the Bush admin's policies doesn't show that those policies caused the uptick.
On the other hand, consider this:
The CDC says that southern states, where there is often the greatest emphasis on abstinence and religion, tend to have the highest rates of teenage pregnancy and STDs.
It's pretty commonsense to see that preaching abstinence to teenagers, stigmatising or limiting birthcontrol and premarital sex, will lead to higher rates of STD's and pregnancy. Not because those kids are more likely to have sex, but because they're less likely to take precautions.
| 217 |
BatGuano Tue, Jul 21, 2009 2:02:21am |
re: #200 iceweasel
I think the Dems are catering to the left. Pelosi and Reid are "barely to the Left?" Explain yourself, young lady.
| 218 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Tue, Jul 21, 2009 2:02:50am |
re: #206 Sharmuta
Unlike other political parties that tell you they stand for one thing, and yet do another, the Joint Venture party would not only talk the talk, we'll walk the walk. I like to think Buckley would approve.
He may very well approve. Riffing on the "Joint" part of your "Venture".
| 220 |
sagehen Tue, Jul 21, 2009 2:03:31am |
re: #167 Slumbering Behemoth
I think that would be an awesome and effective fit for her. A ratings goldmine on any network that would have her.
I don't think she has any chance at a 2012 POTUS run. 2016? Maybe. But not 2012.
2016 may even be too soon.
But 2020. 2024. In 2028, she'll be two years younger than Joe Biden is today. In 2036, she'll be the age McCain was last year.
She's got a lot of learning to do before I'd see her as even remotely qualified, but she's plenty young enough that shouldn't be a problem.
| 221 |
BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Jul 21, 2009 2:03:49am |
re: #217 BatGuano
I think the Dems are catering to the left. Pelosi and Reid are "barely to the Left?" Explain yourself, young lady.
Can't stand Pelosi and Reid!
They're awful, but they're still center-left assholes.
| 223 |
Sharmuta Tue, Jul 21, 2009 2:04:35am |
re: #210 Van Helsing
Frankly- the first place I would start is looking in our hen house for the foxes before we worry about the other farmer's hen house. We need to start recognizing the non-constrained in our midsts- for they are quite good at mainstreaming their fringe thinking.
As I told Syrah months ago- those on the right that do not support the rule of law and the separation of powers really scare the hell out of me. They are as dangerous as any commie. We really need to ditch these whackos from out midst. Won't happen until people notice the problem.
| 224 |
Syrah Tue, Jul 21, 2009 2:04:40am |
re: #210 Van Helsing
I didn't go to bed.
Was not the fringe of the dem party a huge factor in getting CRBBHO elected?
I agree completely, we HAVE 2 parties. There should be a way to make the most of the common ground between them to do WHAT IS BEST FOR THE COUNTRY, NOT THE PARTY!
Where does it start? Myself, I think if the federal government withdrew to it's mandated bounds and we moved forward from there, life would be great.
The big question is how to get the feds to withdraw that far?
I'm serious, folks. this stuff is getting completely out of hand. I don't want to see the F***ups start getting enough support for an armed revolution.
The thing that might work to do what you want is something along the lines of "club for growth."
They are focused on polices, not parties.
Ours will always be a two party system. The best that a third party could aspire to in our current system would be to act as a spoiler. A non-partisan pressure group could bridge the party divide.
| 225 |
BatGuano Tue, Jul 21, 2009 2:04:45am |
re: #212 Fenway_Nation
Good morning, good afternoon and good evening everybody- fruitcup is now on the buffet!
--->
Explain yourself. Where is littleoldlady?
| 226 |
Van Helsing Tue, Jul 21, 2009 2:06:50am |
re: #200 iceweasel
I don't think the candidates are always too polarised. The Dems are not catering to the left, although I know people on the right see them this way. They're barely to the left at all.
I do think that virtually all politicans wind up catering to money.
ex-biker? I used to have a bike. Tell us more!
I'll cop to being on the right. I feel we'll end up in one of those 'agree to disagree' discussions which is really where we need to start.
The current president (please note that I do acknowledge that he is the president and commander-in-chief and I have no problem with that and I have my eldest son in the Army of the United States currently deployed in Iraq). Enough to know that I don't argue his legitimacy.
You may have notice that I refer to the C-inC as CRBBHO, Commie Rat Bastard Barack Hussein Obama.
Let me explain, if you're willing to follow.
| 228 |
BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Jul 21, 2009 2:07:25am |
re: #214 laZardo
When stuff is made more "forbidden," it makes doing that sort of stuff a lot more tempting. q; That's why Catholic school girls tend to be so hot.
I went to a Catholic all-girls school. One day, in our 'health' class, the young female teacher (she was 22 and an ex student there) looked around nervously, checked to make sure the intercom wasn't on (the nuns used to listen in, to make sure she wasn't telling us anything she shouldn't-- i.e., anything about sex) and then she stage-whispered--
OK! Listen you guys--- I'm not supposed to tell you this, but there's a thing called a condom!
At this point the room broke up in hysterical laughter...because we all knew very well what condoms were.
| 229 |
BatGuano Tue, Jul 21, 2009 2:07:36am |
re: #221 iceweasel
Ok. I'll accept that as long as accurately describe them. :)
| 230 |
wahabicorridor Tue, Jul 21, 2009 2:08:10am |
re: #208 Gus 802
Hi Gus!
Yeah, I read the report . I'm surprised the Guardian didn't blame Bush for Bristol Palin's baby.
Now, more insanity from our moral betters, specifically Ted Kennedy.
But the most important implication of the Kennedy-Shrum claim--“Most of these readmissions are unnecessary, but we don’t reward hospitals and doctors for preventing them. By changing that, we’ll save billions of dollars.”--is this: The government is going to decide--ahead of time, obviously, since deciding after the fact wouldn’t save any money; and based on certain general criteria, since the government isn’t going to review each individual case--what kinds of hospital readmissions for the elderly are “unnecessary” and what kinds aren’t. And it’s going to set up a system “to reward hospitals and doctors for preventing” the unnecessary ones. That is, the government will reward hospitals and doctors for denying care they now provide, care the government will now deem “unnecessary.”
Indeed, this understates the case. For in reality the government isn’t going simply to reward “good” and penalize “bad” admissions. It’s going to prevent insurance companies from paying for “unnecessary” admissions and procedures, if those companies want to participate in the government system. In other words, government bureaucrats are going to deem entire categories of treatment inefficient for all or certain categories of patients, and put those treatments out of bounds for doctors and hospitals.
I think Teddy should start practicing what he preaches right about now. No more hospitalizations for you dude - you're terminal and it would be a waste of resources.
| 231 |
Syrah Tue, Jul 21, 2009 2:08:33am |
Goodnight Lizards.
It was a nightmare at work today. Yelling and screaming employees can really ruin a nice boring evening.
Tomorrow will be about cleaning up the aftermath and it will be even less fun than tonight's antics were.
There are times where I find my inner misanthrope saying "I told you so. you should have listened to me and run away to sea." Grrr. Sometimes its hard to argue with it.
| 233 |
Gus Tue, Jul 21, 2009 2:09:42am |
re: #216 iceweasel
It's pretty commonsense to see that preaching abstinence to teenagers, stigmatising or limiting birthcontrol and premarital sex, will lead to higher rates of STD's and pregnancy. Not because those kids are more likely to have sex, but because they're less likely to take precautions.
That sounds reasonable, but based on the report we find this on page 11:
Birth rates for adolescents varied considerably by state (Table 20). Birth rates for adolescents were lower among states in the North and Northeast and higher among states in the South and Southwest. These geographic patterns largely reflect the composition (e.g., race/ethnicity and socioeconomic factors such as educational attainment) of each state’s population (31). The number and rates of young persons living with HIV/AIDS in each of the 38 areas (i.e., 33 states and five U.S. territories) that had stable (i.e., confidential name-based) HIV reporting in 2006 has been calculated (Table 21), as has the number and rates of young persons living with AIDS in each of the 50 states, the District of Columbia, and U.S. territories in 2006 (Table 22). The highest rates of young persons living with AIDS were clustered in the eastern and southern regions of the United States (Figure 1). National rates have been calculated for chlamydia, gonorrhea, and syphilis (primary and secondary) by age group and region (Tables 23–25). Across all regions, overall rates for chlamydia and gonorrhea were higher among persons aged 18–19 years than among those aged 10–14, 15–17, and 20–24 years. Among persons aged 15–24 years, rates for syphilis increased with age group in all regions. Rates were higher for chlamydia, gonorrhea, and syphilis in the South for all age groups, compared with other regions and with the U.S. total. However, variation in racial composition account for much of the difference by region (32).
They include three factors:
1. Race/Ethnicity
2. Social
3. Economic
I separated socioeconomic into social and economic. Social would include religious as well as other socially related influences.
| 234 |
BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Jul 21, 2009 2:09:48am |
| 235 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Tue, Jul 21, 2009 2:09:49am |
re: #218 Slumbering Behemoth
He may very well approve. Riffing on the "Joint" part of your "Venture".
But WTF does W.F. Buckley know, anyway? He's just a gawt damned RINO, right?
/
| 236 |
Fenway_Nation Tue, Jul 21, 2009 2:10:05am |
Hmmm...9 seconds off- the Fruitcuptron 3000 needs some calibrating.
| 237 |
Sharmuta Tue, Jul 21, 2009 2:10:17am |
re: #226 Van Helsing
I think the problem with modern politics is now everything is about those "agree to disagree" issues. No one bothers to think below the surface of any issue. What are the principles involved? What is below the superficial surface?
It's like the IDers- they don't get that once government can mandate one religious idea, they can teach others, or take them away. They only think about their surface issue, and not the deeper meaning underneath.
| 238 |
TheMatrix31 Tue, Jul 21, 2009 2:10:40am |
re: #183 wahabicorridor
morning lizardia.
Someone should show that asshole what President Bush did for the continent of Africa.
| 240 |
Gus Tue, Jul 21, 2009 2:11:24am |
re: #230 wahabicorridor
Hi Gus!
Yeah, I read the report . I'm surprised the Guardian didn't blame Bush for Bristol Palin's baby.
Now, more insanity from our moral betters, specifically Ted Kennedy.
I think Teddy should start practicing what he preaches right about now. No more hospitalizations for you dude - you're terminal and it would be a waste of resources.
Don't give them any ideas! ;)
| 241 |
Fenway_Nation Tue, Jul 21, 2009 2:11:36am |
re: #238 TheMatrix31
They'll probably dismiss U2's Bono as a Halliburton lackey...
| 242 |
BatGuano Tue, Jul 21, 2009 2:12:03am |
re: #236 Fenway_Nation
Hmmm...9 seconds off- the Fruitcuptron 3000 needs some calibrating.
I know littleoldlady. Lol is a friend of mine. You are no littleoldlady!
| 243 |
Fenway_Nation Tue, Jul 21, 2009 2:13:30am |
| 244 |
sagehen Tue, Jul 21, 2009 2:14:32am |
re: #180 iceweasel
I think it's going to be an interesting 5 years to see how this shakes out.
More Americans than ever before identify as independent. I'm most definitely on the left and I'd call myself a progressive--- but all the people I know in that category are at least as disgusted with the Dems as we are Republicans. I'm not even registered Dem.
In terms of how people are feeling, the time seems ripe for a third party. There have been mutterings for a long time of course (Perot, Nader) but now it seems widespread.-- and centrist.
I've been calling myself a liberal Republican (we're thin on the ground these days) -- I'm liberal in how much I want the government to collectively spend for collective benefit, but Republican in what level of government I want doing it. I like that my city spends a lot on both useful services and non-essentials, I'm happy to pay my share, and an overwhelming majority of my locale agrees with that view. But OMG it is *not* a one-size fits all notion, and I understand totally why people in a lot of other places don't want (and shouldn't have to have) anything similar.
| 245 |
BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Jul 21, 2009 2:14:33am |
re: #238 TheMatrix31
Someone should show that asshole what President Bush did for the continent of Africa.
Actually, this is true. I have a lot of issues with GWB, but he's still not given nearly enough credit for all the good things he did for Africa, esp in the areas of HIV/AIDS. He deserves massive credit for that and never gets it-- from the right or the left.
| 246 |
BatGuano Tue, Jul 21, 2009 2:15:16am |
| 247 |
Van Helsing Tue, Jul 21, 2009 2:16:18am |
re: #213 Gus 802
Are you the stand in? ;)
Who'da guessed...
re: #223 Sharmuta
Frankly- the first place I would start is looking in our hen house for the foxes before we worry about the other farmer's hen house. We need to start recognizing the non-constrained in our midsts- for they are quite good at mainstreaming their fringe thinking.
As I told Syrah months ago- those on the right that do not support the rule of law and the separation of powers really scare the hell out of me. They are as dangerous as any commie. We really need to ditch these whackos from out midst. Won't happen until people notice the problem.
Sorry, missed that earlier.
Exactly.
I know that working as under the label of a 'strict constructionalist' will never happen...
Hell, we can't even do that. THAT has been compromised too!
Dammit Shar, there has to be a way to take what the Constitution gives us and warp things back to what is minimalist government - the next bes thing to "you're on yer own. Any one in yer way? Let the Federal Marshall know and he will hurt him SO HARD his grandkids noses will bleed.
Too much has to be described by laweyerse...
There is a story I read...
re: #224 Syrah
The Committees of Correspondence?
| 248 |
Sharmuta Tue, Jul 21, 2009 2:16:20am |
re: #245 iceweasel
Actually, this is true. I have a lot of issues with GWB, but he's still not given nearly enough credit for all the good things he did for Africa, esp in the areas of HIV/AIDS. He deserves massive credit for that and never gets it-- from the right or the left.
You and I likely have different areas where we disagree with Bush, but his legacy on Africa is one where he should be proud.
| 249 |
wahabicorridor Tue, Jul 21, 2009 2:16:57am |
nite Syrah! (what the hell happened at work anyway?)
Reading upthread I see y'all were discussing Palin. Here's a good site to keep track of what's going on with her.
If you scroll down to here, you'll find a good recap of that bullshit 'Juneteenth' ethics charge.
| 250 |
Fenway_Nation Tue, Jul 21, 2009 2:17:50am |
littleoldlady may be closer than we think...
| 251 |
Gus Tue, Jul 21, 2009 2:18:51am |
re: #245 iceweasel
Actually, this is true. I have a lot of issues with GWB, but he's still not given nearly enough credit for all the good things he did for Africa, esp in the areas of HIV/AIDS. He deserves massive credit for that and never gets it-- from the right or the left.
Another on people might forget is the Northwestern Hawaiian Islands preserve he created. It encompasses 84 million acres.
| 252 |
BatGuano Tue, Jul 21, 2009 2:19:00am |
| 253 |
Gus Tue, Jul 21, 2009 2:19:22am |
re: #251 Gus 802
Another
onone people might forget is the Northwestern Hawaiian Islands preserve he created. It encompasses 84 million acres.
PIMF
| 255 |
BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Jul 21, 2009 2:20:10am |
re: #248 Sharmuta
You and I likely have different areas where we disagree with Bush, but his legacy on Africa is one where he should be proud.
Not only that, it should be celebrated by both the right and the left because he did more than any other POTUS ever.
But no one cares. This is partly because as a nation we (as individuals) tend to not pay too much attention to other continents. Also partly because many on the left hate Bush and don't want to give him any credit for anything; partly because for many on the right AIDS/HIV is something they don't want to talk about.
BTW, I think we actually would wind up having many of the same criticisms of Bush, ultimately.
| 256 |
Sharmuta Tue, Jul 21, 2009 2:20:38am |
re: #247 Van Helsing
I believe the way we roll back the bloated Fed is to tie their purse strings by passing the Balanced Budget Amendment. There will be other reforms, imo, but the BBA is the place to start. The GOP pushed it in '94 and it gave them majority control in both houses of Congress. Unfortunately, they walked away from it, and worse- they walked away from any fiscal restraint.
Joint Venture Party, Baby. We won't walk away from fiscal conservatism.
| 257 |
Fenway_Nation Tue, Jul 21, 2009 2:20:42am |
re: #252 BatGuano
Or at least took a break long enough to upding me in the last 15 minutes...
| 258 |
BatGuano Tue, Jul 21, 2009 2:22:10am |
re: #255 iceweasel
Ice, thanks for giving Bush credit on an important issue.
| 259 |
BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Jul 21, 2009 2:24:24am |
re: #254 BatGuano
Hear, hear!
Well-- I really, really, really, really did not like Bush as a POTUS or his admin. But I think it's important (and it keeps us intellectually honest) to give credit where credit is due, and Bush deserves massive praise for that. I think it's awful that he doesn't get it.
| 260 |
littleoldlady Tue, Jul 21, 2009 2:24:59am |
re: #250 Fenway_Nation
Just wish I could have overslept more than 10 minutes... :-(
/...it's gonna be an ugly day
Good job, Fenway! And, thanks! :-)
| 261 |
TheMatrix31 Tue, Jul 21, 2009 2:26:49am |
re: #255 iceweasel
Not only that, it should be celebrated by both the right and the left because he did more than any other POTUS ever.
But no one cares. This is partly because as a nation we (as individuals) tend to not pay too much attention to other continents. Also partly because many on the left hate Bush and don't want to give him any credit for anything; partly because for many on the right AIDS/HIV is something they don't want to talk about.
BTW, I think we actually would wind up having many of the same criticisms of Bush, ultimately.
But wait? I thought Kanye West said George Bush doesnt care about black people?!?!?
| 262 |
Fenway_Nation Tue, Jul 21, 2009 2:27:54am |
re: #260 littleoldlady
You're welcome...and I'm pretty awesome, aren't I?
/
| 264 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Tue, Jul 21, 2009 2:28:21am |
re: #235 Slumbering Behemoth
Sad, that an entirely rational conservative pundit of Buckley's impressive intellect and stature, espousing a position as he does there, would likely be attacked as a damned liberal/leftist, commie/progressive shill in our current blog-o-sphere environment.
Sad, and brain-dead stupid.
/and yeah, I talk to myself. I'm also heated. What of it?!?
| 265 |
BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Jul 21, 2009 2:29:39am |
re: #261 TheMatrix31
But wait? I thought Kanye West said George Bush doesnt care about black people?!?!?
He didn't care about the ones in New orleans.
He did care when he finally got clued in on what was going on there, but he really fucked up there.
| 266 |
Van Helsing Tue, Jul 21, 2009 2:30:02am |
re: #237 Sharmuta
I think the problem with modern politics is now everything is about those "agree to disagree" issues. No one bothers to think below the surface of any issue. What are the principles involved? What is below the superficial surface?
It's like the IDers- they don't get that once government can mandate one religious idea, they can teach others, or take them away. They only think about their surface issue, and not the deeper meaning underneath.
I was looking at from a more personal point of view, but you ( as always) raise valid points.
From my point of view I would suppose several things to be far more chaotic than they are now.
The FEDERAL government would be reduced to EXACTLY what was delineated in the constitution. Period. No Penumbras, no living document.
Constitution and the amendments to said document passed by the States as required.
Done. Enough. Montana allows citizens to own machine guns and sell pot?
Fine. There is NO federal support for the supporters or the victims of those policies...
Gonna be a rough world for a couple of decades.
Duelling, (no Professional Seconds), fighting words, screw with me or mine, I get to kill you. We (or maybe just me and witnesses) stand and explain or problem...
Well, you get the idea.
I'm either the best rep for (new/old) form of SELF GOVERNANCE or the worst.
Plenty of room for discussion, but my firm belief is that society hasresponsibilities and EVERYONE should have access to those tools of civilization. If they misuse them and get bruise on their thumb or foot...
Well, you were warned.
| 267 |
sagehen Tue, Jul 21, 2009 2:30:44am |
re: #189 Van Helsing
The candidates are too polarized, catering to the extremes in both parties and that gets anyone who cares about the COUNTRY (and I do care about the USA, the ideals it was founded upon and the future it promised to all those huddling masses, my family included) that we get no where.
Redistricting that gets of the gerrymandered districts would make for more truly competitive districts and more centrist candidates. Districts where the only real race is the primary, that's where the extremists come from.
Maybe the 2010 redistricting is a better use of our time than supporting a particular candidate.
| 268 |
littleoldlady Tue, Jul 21, 2009 2:31:49am |
re: #262 Fenway_Nation
You're welcome...and I'm pretty awesome, aren't I?
/
/NSFW!
//I'm still asleep...yeah, that's my excuse, and I'm sticking to it ;-)
| 270 |
laZardo Tue, Jul 21, 2009 2:32:46am |
re: #261 TheMatrix31
He take our money, while we're in need, yeah he's a triflin' Prez indeed, oh he's a gold digger...way outta time...that dig on me...
/ q8
//fucking shutter glasses
| 271 |
BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Jul 21, 2009 2:32:54am |
re: #264 Slumbering Behemoth
Sad, that an entirely rational conservative pundit of Buckley's impressive intellect and stature, espousing a position as he does there, would likely be attacked as a damned liberal/leftist, commie/progressive shill in our current blog-o-sphere environment.
Sad, and brain-dead stupid.
/and yeah, I talk to myself. I'm also heated. What of it?!?
Heated again? Hasn't that weasel been whacked enough tonight? Fingering your ferret? Manhandling your marsupial? ///
BTW, Buckley would certainly be called a RINO today. :(
| 272 |
BatGuano Tue, Jul 21, 2009 2:33:36am |
re: #268 littleoldlady
/NSFW!
//I'm still asleep...yeah, that's my excuse, and I'm sticking to it ;-)
Hi, littleoldlady!
| 274 |
Fenway_Nation Tue, Jul 21, 2009 2:34:19am |
re: #265 iceweasel
I like how Aquatic Magic School Bus Nagin and Blanco got a 'get-out-of-fuckup-free' card in the events immediately before and after Katrina.
| 275 |
Sharmuta Tue, Jul 21, 2009 2:34:31am |
re: #265 iceweasel
He didn't care about the ones in New orleans.
He did care when he finally got clued in on what was going on there, but he really fucked up there.
The locals really fucked that up. A long line of fuck ups, really. Same as in Minnesota with the bridge collapse. Where is the government- local, state and fed- to fix our infrastructure?! That's their main damn job along with security. Pisses me off -- and it's party neutral. They'll give sports teams money for new stadiums, but screw you drivers on government roads and bridges.
| 276 |
Gus Tue, Jul 21, 2009 2:34:43am |
re: #265 iceweasel
He didn't care about the ones in New orleans.
He did care when he finally got clued in on what was going on there, but he really fucked up there.
To be honest, I was rather outraged with the response. Not only from the executive branch but from Secretary Brown, and the rest of the government bodies including cities, counties, and state. Finally when they put in place Lt. Gen. Russel Honore as commander of Joint Task Force Katrina things began to move in the right direction.
| 277 |
wahabicorridor Tue, Jul 21, 2009 2:34:46am |
re: #269 littleoldlady
wahabi! :-)
How's by you and yours?
We're eggselent! The Fat Beagle is on the meds and on the mend!
| 278 |
sagehen Tue, Jul 21, 2009 2:36:30am |
re: #217 BatGuano
I think the Dems are catering to the left. Pelosi and Reid are "barely to the Left?" Explain yourself, young lady.
Compared to Ted Kennedy, Barbara Boxer, Bernie Saunders, Russ Feingold, Chuck Schumer, Dennis Kucinich, Maxine Waters, Charlie Rangel...
| 279 |
wahabicorridor Tue, Jul 21, 2009 2:36:32am |
re: #265 iceweasel
He didn't care about the ones in New orleans.
He did care when he finally got clued in on what was going on there, but he really fucked up there.
WTF?
Ray Nagin, Kathleen Blanco, FEMA - and the people of NO themselves who refused to get the hell out.
| 280 |
BatGuano Tue, Jul 21, 2009 2:36:33am |
Weird. Why do Sharmuta, iceweasal and I agree on so many things? I must think on this. I am standing here beside myself shrugging.
| 281 |
Gus Tue, Jul 21, 2009 2:36:39am |
re: #274 Fenway_Nation
I like how
AquaticMagic School Bus Nagin and Blanco got a 'get-out-of-fuckup-free' card in the events immediately before and after Katrina.
Just search for Nagin Buses.
| 282 |
Fenway_Nation Tue, Jul 21, 2009 2:36:48am |
re: #276 Gus 802
re: #265 iceweasel
To be honest, I was rather outraged with the response. Not only from the executive branch but from Secretary Brown, and the rest of the government bodies including cities, counties, and state. Finally when they put in place Lt. Gen. Russel Honore as commander of Joint Task Force Katrina things began to move in the right direction.
If there was any kind of God, that man would get some cabinet level position...
| 284 |
littleoldlady Tue, Jul 21, 2009 2:37:36am |
re: #277 wahabicorridor
We're eggselent! The Fat Beagle is on the meds and on the mend!
Oh, YAY! :-) :-) :-)
/I was kinda afraid to ask... :-/
| 285 |
Gus Tue, Jul 21, 2009 2:38:18am |
re: #282 Fenway_Nation
If there was any kind of God, that man would get some cabinet level position...
Damn he was good. He came on the scene and took over like George Patton. I also liked the way he would always end his statements with "over."
/Over
| 286 |
BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Jul 21, 2009 2:38:54am |
re: #267 sagehen
Redistricting that gets of the gerrymandered districts would make for more truly competitive districts and more centrist candidates. Districts where the only real race is the primary, that's where the extremists come from.
Maybe the 2010 redistricting is a better use of our time than supporting a particular candidate.
With Michelle Bachmann and others urging people not to participate in the census, maybe we'll see some redistricting done that hurts the extremists.
On the other hand, we'll also see apportioning of funds to districts based on the census, so the crazy and angry people will only be confirmed in their notions that government hates them and wants to hurt them when their districts receive fewer funds.
In other words, the haters will continue to hate, and will manufacture, if not invent, grievances when given none.
| 288 |
BatGuano Tue, Jul 21, 2009 2:39:56am |
| 289 |
freetoken Tue, Jul 21, 2009 2:40:53am |
re: #212 Fenway_Nation
Good morning, good afternoon and good evening everybody- fruitcup is now on the buffet!
--->
This is what you call "fruitcup"!?
Lol - come back!!!
| 290 |
Fenway_Nation Tue, Jul 21, 2009 2:41:46am |
re: #281 Gus 802
I'll throw another mode of transport into the mix, Gus.
Amtrak was evacuating some passenger equipment from New Orleans further inland to Mississippi...they let Nagin's office know they could accomodate a few hundred evacuees on the train. Apparently Nagin said 'No thanks'...then said Amtrak never made the offer a few weeks later.
| 291 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, Jul 21, 2009 2:42:24am |
re: #279 wahabicorridor
WTF?
Ray Nagin, Kathleen Blanco, FEMA - and the people of NO themselves who refused to get the hell out.
You are exactly right. Nagin is first in line to blame. Blanco IIRC, didn't request the National Guard in a timely manner. FEMA on the otherhand needs to be kicked to the curb. Answer me this: Who can get supplies needed to a disaster better, the guverment, Fed EX, UPS, Wal-Mart, DHL, or any other private industry? Answer: Not the guverment. Living in FLA for 38 years, I kinda know about this little hurricane thing.
| 292 |
littleoldlady Tue, Jul 21, 2009 2:42:48am |
rightside! :-)
freetoken! :-)
/...soon as I wake up
//clicked your link...EWW...I think I'm up!
| 293 |
wahabicorridor Tue, Jul 21, 2009 2:42:56am |
from the 'awww' department
| 295 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Tue, Jul 21, 2009 2:44:10am |
| 296 |
littleoldlady Tue, Jul 21, 2009 2:44:31am |
re: #293 wahabicorridor
So, are we going to finally get together for our "How to Die" lessons, courtesy of the government?
/I sure hope they serve donuts...
| 297 |
Van Helsing Tue, Jul 21, 2009 2:44:36am |
re: #256 Sharmuta
I believe the way we roll back the bloated Fed is to tie their purse strings by passing the Balanced Budget Amendment. There will be other reforms, imo, but the BBA is the place to start. The GOP pushed it in '94 and it gave them majority control in both houses of Congress. Unfortunately, they walked away from it, and worse- they walked away from any fiscal restraint.
Joint Venture Party, Baby. We won't walk away from fiscal conservatism.
Gawww... I t may be the best way but the tools under my hands a t that point say ' perhaps you try a pointed rock'.
Screw 'em. I'll still be fighting. You find better ideas please be sure to sure.
Oh, and to iceweasel: in the days of my youth the initials 'DD' would have answered your question regarding your 'do tell?'
Long ago, far away...
re: #280 BatGuano
Weird. Why do Sharmuta, iceweasal and I agree on so many things? I must think on this. I am standing here beside myself shrugging.
I dunno, but If you have insperation for the lottery, let me know.
Hast la later boys and girls...
| 298 |
BatGuano Tue, Jul 21, 2009 2:45:00am |
re: #265 iceweasel
I think that is unfair. There was a procedure in place and it failed. He has to take responsibility for the outcome, but attributing to him racist motives is unsupported.
| 299 |
Fenway_Nation Tue, Jul 21, 2009 2:45:02am |
re: #291 Cannadian Club Akbar
No no no no...it's because every last Louisiana Nat'l Garudsman was in Iraq butchering arab children for the ZioNazi Haliburton RethugliKKKan war for oil! Didn't you get the memo!?
/
| 300 |
TheMatrix31 Tue, Jul 21, 2009 2:45:32am |
re: #283 laZardo
He had a legacy in Africa?
/seriously?
There was a thorough article on CNN somewhere, written by someone around January, talking about all he did in Africa...
| 301 |
Gus Tue, Jul 21, 2009 2:46:26am |
re: #290 Fenway_Nation
I'll throw another mode of transport into the mix, Gus.
Amtrak was evacuating some passenger equipment from New Orleans further inland to Mississippi...they let Nagin's office know they could accomodate a few hundred evacuees on the train. Apparently Nagin said 'No thanks'...then said Amtrak never made the offer a few weeks later.
Didn't know about that. Rail transport would have been perfect for mass evacuation. However as you say Nagin said "no" just as he did with the bussing alternative. I also place blame on Nagin. But I also blame a lot of citizens that should have known better to evacuate when fronted with a Cat V hurricane. I couldn't believe it during the evening as I was looking at the satellite imagery from NOAA and at the same time watching the inaction that was taking place. Even with a pedestrian view of the satellite images you could see we had a monster on our hands.
| 302 |
wahabicorridor Tue, Jul 21, 2009 2:46:42am |
re: #291 Cannadian Club Akbar
I have had family all over the south - Florida included (I love Panama City Beach, please bury me in the sand) - and if you look and the difference between Jeb Bush and Blanco, it's astonishing.
My mom was from NO and I know that its sub-cultures quite well. Ray Nagin epitomizes it.
| 304 |
BatGuano Tue, Jul 21, 2009 2:47:06am |
re: #294 laZardo
Sending mosquito nets to africa. I would have been more effusive if he could have gotten the economic restrictions on ddt lifted.
| 305 |
BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Jul 21, 2009 2:47:16am |
re: #279 wahabicorridor
the people of NO themselves who refused to get the hell out.
I know that's a popular claim, and I'm not sure I'm up for rehashing Katrina tonight, but lets put it this way:
Let's pretend that everything you just said was true. The buck still stops with Bush. For three days I saw scenes that looked like a third world nation. That wasn't media bias.
Bush fucked up.
I understand partisanship, I understand wanting to defend 'my side', but let's be reasonable here. If this had happened to say, Omaha, under Obama's watch, wouldn't you say something major went wrong and the buck stops with Obama?
If sagehen is still around, I know she has all the facts on Katrina for you.
| 306 |
wahabicorridor Tue, Jul 21, 2009 2:48:03am |
re: #296 littleoldlady
So, are we going to finally get together for our "How to Die" lessons, courtesy of the government?
/I sure hope they serve donuts...
Teddy Kennedy gets to go first.
| 307 |
wahabicorridor Tue, Jul 21, 2009 2:48:58am |
re: #305 iceweasel
That's odd. He never seemed to fuck up in Florida.
| 308 |
littleoldlady Tue, Jul 21, 2009 2:49:23am |
re: #305 iceweasel
If this had happened to say, Omaha, under Obama's watch, wouldn't you say something major went wrong and the buck stops with Obama?
Didn't it? Not Omaha necessarily, but somewhere in the Mid-section of the country? Was it flooding?
/memory loss + lack 'o coffee
I believe the locals handled it ...
| 309 |
Fenway_Nation Tue, Jul 21, 2009 2:49:41am |
re: #301 Gus 802
Nagin also had the NOPD park a bunch of police cruisers on an elevated expressway immediately before the hurricane so they wouldn't be flooded in. I know this for a fact because some weatherbabe was going a live update from the aforementioned expresway immediately after Katrina passed (but right before the levee broke- people tend to forget there was a few hours gap).
| 310 |
sagehen Tue, Jul 21, 2009 2:49:41am |
re: #298 BatGuano
I think that is unfair. There was a procedure in place and it failed. He has to take responsibility for the outcome, but attributing to him racist motives is unsupported.
Well, *I* don't think it was racist. He'd have been just as uncaring if the stranded people were chinese democrats, or white democrats, or latino democrats.
When there were hurricanes in a swing state right before the 04 election, for them he got the lead out.
| 311 |
BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Jul 21, 2009 2:50:14am |
re: #298 BatGuano
I think that is unfair. There was a procedure in place and it failed. He has to take responsibility for the outcome, but attributing to him racist motives is unsupported.
Oh we agree. I'm not attributing racist motives to Bush by any means-- should be obvious he isn't a racist given all the great work he did for Africa. I was responding to someone quoting Kanye West's claim that Bush didn't care about black people-- that was a claim made about NOLA and Katrina.
He didn't do enough for NOLA.
| 313 |
BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Jul 21, 2009 2:51:06am |
re: #307 wahabicorridor
That's odd. He never seemed to fuck up in Florida.
Yeah. A swing state governed by his brother. That IS odd.
| 314 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, Jul 21, 2009 2:51:27am |
re: #305 iceweasel
I know that's a popular claim, and I'm not sure I'm up for rehashing Katrina tonight, but lets put it this way:
Let's pretend that everything you just said was true. The buck still stops with Bush. For three days I saw scenes that looked like a third world nation. That wasn't media bias.
Bush fucked up.
I understand partisanship, I understand wanting to defend 'my side', but let's be reasonable here. If this had happened to say, Omaha, under Obama's watch, wouldn't you say something major went wrong and the buck stops with Obama?If sagehen is still around, I know she has all the facts on Katrina for you.
It starts at with the individual. Then the local level. Then the state level. Then the fed. NO had days to get people out, and they didn't. And I don't want to hear from Ray Nagin that they didn't have anyone to get people out. Hey Ray, I got this little thing for you. It's called a plan.
| 315 |
BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Jul 21, 2009 2:52:02am |
re: #308 littleoldlady
Didn't it? Not Omaha necessarily, but somewhere in the Mid-section of the country? Was it flooding?
/memory loss + lack 'o coffee
I believe the locals handled it ...
94 or 93, under clinton. Not Omaha in particular but loads of places.
| 316 |
Gus Tue, Jul 21, 2009 2:52:29am |
re: #309 Fenway_Nation
Nagin also had the NOPD park a bunch of police cruisers on an elevated expressway immediately before the hurricane so they wouldn't be flooded in. I know this for a fact because some weatherbabe was going a live update from the aforementioned expresway immediately after Katrina passed (but right before the levee broke- people tend to forget there was a few hours gap).
I remember watching a video of a NOPD precinct office getting flooded. Thinking back now a lot of strange events took place surrounding the NOPD including theft and one suicide if I remember correctly. Never saw such a mess in my life.
| 317 |
Fenway_Nation Tue, Jul 21, 2009 2:53:07am |
Even more odd is how Spike Lee didn't do any documentaries about the devestation Katrina wrought in...I dunno...say...Biloxi, MS or Mobile, AL.
| 319 |
BatGuano Tue, Jul 21, 2009 2:54:19am |
re: #305 iceweasel
I apologize for intruding. President Bush was ultimately responsible. I watched as millions of others did and wondered why did not the president mobilize the awesome power of his office to relieve the suffering, regardless of the culpability of those suffering.
| 320 |
Gus Tue, Jul 21, 2009 2:54:29am |
re: #316 Gus 802
Two sucides:
Amid horror, 2 officers commit suicide
By Keith O'Brien, Globe Correspondent %P% September 5, 2005
NEW ORLEANS -- Sergeant Paul Accardo was the public face of the New Orleans Police Department, a spokesman who went in front of the TV camera on a regular basis, but Katrina and its harrowing aftermath were apparently too much for him.
Accardo and another New Orleans police officer have committed suicide, the 1,500-person department announced yesterday, a startling sign of the emotional toll the storm has taken on those trained to face almost any challenge...
| 321 |
laZardo Tue, Jul 21, 2009 2:55:01am |
re: #307 wahabicorridor
Because the Supreme Court delivered the state run by his brother to him in 2000, so he's paying it back with better flood relief?
///
| 322 |
sagehen Tue, Jul 21, 2009 2:55:15am |
re: #305 iceweasel
If sagehen is still around, I know she has all the facts on Katrina for you.
I'm still around. Which facts in particular (I don't have all of them, but I've got a few).
| 323 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, Jul 21, 2009 2:55:30am |
re: #313 iceweasel
Yeah. A swing state governed by his brother. That IS odd.
Also a governor who chastised the people of his own state when they had a week to get ready for a hurricane, then they sat in line for water. So, I call bullshit.
| 324 |
littleoldlady Tue, Jul 21, 2009 2:55:51am |
re: #315 iceweasel
No, I was thinking of this past winter.
/yeah, they blamed Bush, so you may have missed it...
As for Florida, when was the last time they called in the Feds to help after a hurricane? THEY ARE PREPARED.
| 325 |
BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Jul 21, 2009 2:57:21am |
re: #319 BatGuano
I apologize for intruding. President Bush was ultimately responsible. I watched as millions of others did and wondered why did not the president mobilize the awesome power of his office to relieve the suffering, regardless of the culpability of those suffering.
Nothing to apologise for, Bat!
I agree. If this had happened under any POTUS, I think a normal reaction is to say, WTF?
This didn't need to happen, and it didn't need to go on as long as it did. I'm mystified by those who want to insist that Bush has no responsibility and no culpability here. Mistakes were made at the local and state level, but the buck stops with the POTUS.
| 326 |
rightside Tue, Jul 21, 2009 2:57:26am |
re: #324 littleoldlady
That's the difference between self-starters, and the dependency class that has been mired in liberal/progressive policies for decades.
| 327 |
wahabicorridor Tue, Jul 21, 2009 2:57:28am |
| 328 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Tue, Jul 21, 2009 2:57:52am |
Yep, I'm ducking frunk. I should bounce out before I make a total ass of myself. In the mean time, W.F. Buckley was in favor of legalizing drugs. Think about that for a moment.
Yeah, that blew my mind. Admittedly, though, it is a feat not that hard to accomplish at this moment.
Later Lizards.
| 329 |
Sharmuta Tue, Jul 21, 2009 2:57:58am |
re: #315 iceweasel
94 or 93, under clinton. Not Omaha in particular but loads of places.
It was 93- I was there. I saw that flooding with my own eyes, and it was stunning. From Omaha to Kansas City to Des Moines- it was shocking. Saw a barn in the middle of the Missouri River looking like a water ski jump. That was a road trip to remember.
Anyways- as always the Red Cross was right there to start helping immediately. Ny GrandDad, God rest his soul, was sent to Missouri to help the folks there clean up. He said floods were the worst disasters because they were the worst to clean. One of the best organizations where folks can give money is the American Red Cross. They're always there, whether the disaster is big or small, and they're quite efficient.
| 331 |
littleoldlady Tue, Jul 21, 2009 2:59:30am |
re: #319 BatGuano
I watched it, too. And my first reaction wasn't "Bad Bush!". Rather, "Jeez, I'd better get this family/house prepared for a disaster!"
| 332 |
Fenway_Nation Tue, Jul 21, 2009 2:59:40am |
re: #329 Sharmuta
OK...I thought LoL was talking about some flooding that happened this year.
/The midwest floods of 2008 were pretty epic as well.
| 334 |
Sharmuta Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:00:55am |
re: #332 Fenway_Nation
I'm never forgetting that barn in the middle of the river.
| 335 |
laZardo Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:01:19am |
re: #304 BatGuano
Sending mosquito nets to africa. I would have been more effusive if he could have gotten the economic restrictions on ddt lifted.
Isn't DDT supposed to be poisonous to humans as well?
/so sayeth the ecoprop
| 336 |
wahabicorridor Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:02:58am |
re: #329 Sharmuta
He said floods were the worst disasters because they were the worst to clean.
Indeed. My parents' property on the Monongehela river was flooded in the aftermath of hurricane weather and I went home to help clean up. The water had reached the second floor. It is dangerouse - the filth. The poor little animals are totally screwed up. Part of my job was shooting the rats, etc. I had to kill a racoon, cried for 3 days.
Total nightmare. For almost a year. The grass didn't grow again for 3 years.
| 337 |
BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:04:41am |
re: #329 Sharmuta
It was 93- I was there. I saw that flooding with my own eyes, and it was stunning. From Omaha to Kansas City to Des Moines- it was shocking. Saw a barn in the middle of the Missouri River looking like a water ski jump. That was a road trip to remember.
Anyways- as always the Red Cross was right there to start helping immediately. Ny GrandDad, God rest his soul, was sent to Missouri to help the folks there clean up. He said floods were the worst disasters because they were the worst to clean. One of the best organizations where folks can give money is the American Red Cross. They're always there, whether the disaster is big or small, and they're quite efficient.
Yes, that's what I was thinking of.
the red cross is an amazing organisation and always first on the scene. Shit, the media were on the scene for Katrina, so why not FEMA and others?
| 338 |
BatGuano Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:05:18am |
re: #331 littleoldlady
I watched it, too. And my first reaction wasn't "Bad Bush!". Rather, "Jeez, I'd better get this family/house prepared for a disaster!"
Same here. there was a personal responsibility failure. But after watching Sheperd Smith and Gearlado (Drama Queen) Rivera I was wondering, where are the choppers with water?
| 339 |
wahabicorridor Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:05:21am |
| 340 |
Gus Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:05:39am |
Bottom line is that the first order of responsibility for a hurricane is yourself -- baring health limitations. Then you help others in your surrounding environment. Next comes the city, county and the state agencies. Local and state police departments have the responsibility to notify and force if need be the evacuation of the citizens in the storms path.
Everything should be based on NOAA weather information. You can take some guidance from FEMA but do not expect a rapid response. The state is better at mobilizing state national guard for manpower requirement requirements. FEMA can come later since it takes a great of time for them to mobilize.
/Something like that.
| 341 |
BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:05:59am |
re: #338 BatGuano
Same here. there was a personal responsibility failure. But after watching Sheperd Smith and Gearlado (Drama Queen) Rivera I was wondering, where are the choppers with water?
EXACTLY. Horrible.
| 342 |
Sharmuta Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:06:11am |
re: #336 wahabicorridor
And sometimes the flooding ruins the entire house, so it's another blow to the owners to have to rip it down.
| 343 |
TheMatrix31 Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:06:45am |
I hate the fact that hurricanes cause so much destruction, because, as a weather geek, I love following them.
| 344 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:07:13am |
Hurricanes you can prepare for, with the exception of an erratic storm. Tornados you kow are coming, but not sure where, kinda like whack-a-mole. Flooding is flat out mother nature. Nothing you can do.
| 345 |
BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:07:34am |
re: #340 Gus 802
Bottom line is that the first order of responsibility for a hurricane is yourself -- baring health limitations. Then you help others in your surrounding environment. Next comes the city, county and the state agencies. Local and state police departments have the responsibility to notify and force if need be the evacuation of the citizens in the storms path.
Everything should be based on NOAA weather information. You can take some guidance from FEMA but do not expect a rapid response. The state is better at mobilizing state national guard for manpower requirement requirements. FEMA can come later since it takes a great of time for them to mobilize.
/Something like that.
I seriously cannot believe that anyone here wants to blame NOLA itself and the people who drowned, rather than admit the obvious: Bush fucked up.
Mistakes were made on the state and local level. And some people stayed because they had no way to leave. And some stayed because they didn't know how bad it was going to be.
The buck still stops with Bush. He fucked up. The whole system fucked up-- but the buck stops with Bush. He didn't do more and he should have done more. If Shep Smith and Geraldo can be on the scene right away, why the hell couldn't we get water to people trapped in the Superdome?
| 347 |
BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:08:45am |
re: #343 TheMatrix31
I hate the fact that hurricanes cause so much destruction, because, as a weather geek, I love following them.
Same here. :(
| 348 |
Fenway_Nation Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:09:47am |
| 349 |
Gus Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:10:09am |
re: #345 iceweasel
I seriously cannot believe that anyone here wants to blame NOLA itself and the people who drowned, rather than admit the obvious: Bush fucked up.
Mistakes were made on the state and local level. And some people stayed because they had no way to leave. And some stayed because they didn't know how bad it was going to be.
The buck still stops with Bush. He fucked up. The whole system fucked up-- but the buck stops with Bush. He didn't do more and he should have done more. If Shep Smith and Geraldo can be on the scene right away, why the hell couldn't we get water to people trapped in the Superdome?
If Bush failed it was well after the hurricane passed. I'm sorry but that was the responsibility of the governors first and then the mayors. The failure on Bush's part was FEMA director Brown. I think it was a chain of events and a chain of errors.
| 350 |
Fenway_Nation Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:11:17am |
| 351 |
jim in virginia Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:12:23am |
Morning all.
T. Boone Pickens is back on the airwaves (at least in the DC area- is anyone else seeing him? ) with a heavy TV/ radio buy. Message is the same- switch to wind and natural gas, cut our foreign oil consumption.
Good ideas but the ad starts with "Gas prices keep going up." Here in the DC area, we've seen gas prices drop by 25 cents a gallon in the last month.
What planet is Pickens from?
| 352 |
littleoldlady Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:12:27am |
re: #338 BatGuano
Yes, I saw those "shows", too. And when it became that painfully obvious that the city and state were totally inept, the government certainly could have been quicker stepping in.
Even so, there's still issues of procedure and jurisdiction.
| 353 |
littleoldlady Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:13:39am |
| 354 |
Fenway_Nation Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:14:19am |
re: #352 littleoldlady
Plus the sheer stupidity of 'let's put our logistics chain in the path of an oncoming Category 4 hurricane' that some people were advocating at the time.
| 355 |
jim in virginia Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:14:58am |
re: #343 TheMatrix31
I hate the fact that hurricanes cause so much destruction, because, as a weather geek, I love following them.
Disasters are exciting as long as you can watch from a safe distance.
| 356 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:15:27am |
re: #352 littleoldlady
Yes, I saw those "shows", too. And when it became that painfully obvious that the city and state were totally inept, the government certainly could have been quicker stepping in.
Even so, there's still issues of procedure and jurisdiction.
Correct. Gov. Bush always had his natural disaster red tape guverment BS at the ready. Blanco was a failure.
| 357 |
TheMatrix31 Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:15:33am |
| 359 |
Gus Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:16:04am |
■ Evacuations of general populations went relatively
well in all three states.■ Despite adequate warning 56 hours before landfall,
Governor Blanco and Mayor Nagin delayed ordering a
mandatory evacuation in New Orleans until 19 hours
before landfall.■ The failure to order timely mandatory evacuations,
Mayor Nagin’s decision to shelter but not evacuate the
remaining population, and decisions of individuals
led to an incomplete evacuation.■ The incomplete pre-landfall evacuation led to
deaths, thousands of dangerous rescues, and horrible
conditions for those who remained.■ Federal, state, and local officials’ failure to anticipate
the post-landfall conditions delayed post-landfall
evacuation and support.
| 360 |
BatGuano Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:16:53am |
re: #349 Gus 802
If Bush failed it was well after the hurricane passed. I'm sorry but that was the responsibility of the governors first and then the mayors. The failure on Bush's part was FEMA director Brown. I think it was a chain of events and a chain of errors.
I won't go as far as iceweasal in blaming bush, but the initial efforts should have been on the mayor and the governor: both were inadequate. After the disaster, President Bush should have moved heaven and earth to get the basics to the survivors, like water.
| 361 |
Gus Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:18:55am |
re: #360 BatGuano
I won't go as far as iceweasal in blaming bush, but the initial efforts should have been on the mayor and the governor: both were inadequate. After the disaster, President Bush should have moved heaven and earth to get the basics to the survivors, like water.
OK, I was trying to be delicate about it. Therein lies his failure in not taking the lead. Should have booted out Brown ASAP. Etc.
| 362 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:19:00am |
re: #354 Fenway_Nation
Plus the sheer stupidity of 'let's put our logistics chain in the path of an oncoming Category 4 hurricane' that some people were advocating at the time.
If winds hit 45 MPH in FLA, there is no ambulance service. And once the bridges are closed, they are closed. The people you speak of are idiots.
| 363 |
BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:20:23am |
re: #360 BatGuano
After the disaster, President Bush should have moved heaven and earth to get the basics to the survivors, like water.
And he didn't. That is a fact.
I understand partisanship, but I don't understand why some people are so resistant to admitting that Bush did anything wrong, ever.
It's interesting that you say you won't go as far as me in 'blaming Bush', but the only criticisms I've specifically made of Bush here for Katrina are exactly the ones you've made; I just use less temperate language in saying it.
| 364 |
Gus Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:21:10am |
Still, that was well after land fall and the hurricane passed.
A state is like a ship. A governor is like a captain and he is responsible for that ship and its navigation.
A captain does not navigate waters under orders from the admirals. The admirals only tell him were to go.
| 365 |
Sharmuta Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:21:16am |
iDub- I thought this would be of interest to you:
Assault on Erin Andrews' privacy scary for all female journalists
It's never been easy for female sports journalists. From Lisa Olson being sexually harassed while covering the New England Patriots to Suzy Kolber having to fend off the advances of a drunk Joe Namath on national television to MMA reporter Loretta Hunt being called an unacceptable name for women on camera by UFC president Dana White, women have had to overcome obstacles not faced by their male counterparts.
That doesn't even take into account that women on television are judged for not just what they know but what they look like. Most female sports journalists have dealt with these difficulties with aplomb. However, they were magnified considerably this week when ESPN reporter Erin Andrews became a victim of video voyeurism after someone shot video of her in a private moment through her hotel room peephole.
Just a vivid example from beginning to end of the cultural misogyny we've discussed before.
| 366 |
BatGuano Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:21:35am |
re: #352 littleoldlady
Yes, I think Bush should have preempted local control (where it rightfully belonged) and at least gotten the basics to those who decided to stick it out. And yes, Shep and Geraldo were putting on shows.
| 367 |
J.D. Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:21:57am |
re: #324 littleoldlady
No, I was thinking of this past winter.
/yeah, they blamed Bush, so you may have missed it...
As for Florida, when was the last time they called in the Feds to help after a hurricane? THEY ARE PREPARED.
Say... that reminds me...
Hi little"old"lady!
| 368 |
littleoldlady Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:22:19am |
Oh...and BTW...after Katrina even Philadelphia stepped up disaster planning and preparation. Even though the general population may have Blamed Bush for the Katrina mess, it was a wake up call to local governments that they were responsible for certain health and safety issues.
/Philadelphia has never had anything but a left-leaning Democratic government...at least, never in my lifetime.
| 370 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:25:38am |
And IW, for the record, I am not defending President Bush. But there is a protocol, like it or not. But I also believe FEMA is a joke. Let's start with the guverment in general.
| 371 |
J.D. Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:26:20am |
Maybe someone already posted this and it's what got Katrina front and center. If not, check it out. New Orleans needs this guy like it needs another hurricane.
NEW ORLEANS — Mayor Ray Nagin wants hurricane-displaced people who plan to return to New Orleans counted as residents in the upcoming U.S. Census even if they live elsewhere.
Unfortunately, that's against Census rules, which call for people to be listed where they are living and sleeping most of the time when the count is taken...
| 372 |
Gus Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:26:26am |
re: #368 littleoldlady
Oh...and BTW...after Katrina even Philadelphia stepped up disaster planning and preparation. Even though the general population may have Blamed Bush for the Katrina mess, it was a wake up call to local governments that they were responsible for certain health and safety issues.
/Philadelphia has never had anything but a left-leaning Democratic government...at least, never in my lifetime.
Sure enough this is what we heard from the new administrations FEMA director:
FEMA: Neighbors first line of defense in disasters
Emergency response is focus at governors' convention in Biloxi
Monday, July 20, 2009By GEORGE R. ALTMAN
Capital Bureau
BILOXI — People struck by hurricanes and other disasters must work to help each other, rather than wait for government assistance, the head of the Federal Emergency Management Agency said Sunday."If neighbors aren't helping neighbors, nobody's going to get there fast enough," FEMA Administrator Craig Fugate told the National Governors Association.
Government should also rely on partnerships with private industries and community and faith-based organizations, Fugate said. But in the hours after a natural disaster, the surest way to get help is to help yourself, he added.
"Get a plan. Get trained... (in) first aid or CPR. And when a disaster strikes and you and your family are OK, check on the neighbor," Fugate said.
Fugate, as well as representa tives from the insurance and communications industries, discussed preparing for disasters in a convention center that was itself devastated by Hurricane Katrina in 2005.
The Mississippi Coast Coliseum & Convention Center has since been refurbished and is hosting most of the official business of the meeting.
Business matters at the Governors Association's summer session started Saturday and will conclude today, with a discussion of energy issues. Meetings on Sunday covered health care, emergency preparedness and other topics
Speakers said they learned much from Katrina.
"It was like, overnight, going from an interconnected communicating infrastructure to... waking up to what felt like a Third World country," said Motorola Inc. President Gregory Brown.
Mississippi Gov. Haley Barbour said the leader of the state National Guard had all the technology of a Civil War general in the days after Katrina struck, having to rely solely on face-to-face meetings for communication.
[Link: www.al.com...]
| 373 |
rightside Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:27:33am |
Both michelle malkin and hotair show empty to me, anyone else have that problem?
| 374 |
UncleRancher Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:28:04am |
This is second-hand information but it is from a relative. My brother is a FEMA on-call trouble shooter. After Katrina blew through and flooding occurred, and he and all his team mates were prevented from entering Louisiana by the state authorities for many days. They were there, waiting to go in, but did not have and could not get permission.
You know the rest of the story. There was plenty of transportation available before the flood and plenty of time to evacuate but everyone just sat on their hands and did nothing until it was too late.
Ya, sure, it was Bush's fault. Right /s
| 375 |
BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:28:18am |
re: #370 Cannadian Club Akbar
And IW, for the record, I am not defending President Bush. But there is a protocol, like it or not. But I also believe FEMA is a joke. Let's start with the guverment in general.
believe me, I'd agree that FEMA is a joke and lots of government needs review.
If there's ever a time for a POTUS to say "fuck protocol", though, it's when a major American city is drowning and dying.
I don't want to get too into this on a cool LNDT.
| 376 |
BatGuano Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:28:43am |
re: #363 iceweasel
I think it was your "Bush fucked" up post #345. It was a little bit strident for my taste
| 377 |
jim in virginia Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:29:13am |
re: #345 iceweasel
So the President of the United States should have sent the Marines to New Orleans to force everyone onto the school buses that Nagin didn't use, and drive them to the White House for an overnight?
Disaster preparation and response is a local responsibility. When the local authorities are overwhelmed the Feds step in. Yes, the Federal response was appalling. But Nagin's failure to get people out, and Blanco's bumbling, are a lot more to blame for what went wrong than anyone on the Federal level- even Michael Brown.
Weather experts told the locals three days before landfall they had a potential catastrophe and the city should be evacuated. And Nagin failed to act. That's criminal negligence.
POTUS did not have the power or responsibility to evacuate New Orleans. Nagin and Blanco did, but wouldn't.
| 378 |
BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:29:17am |
re: #376 BatGuano
I think it was your "Bush fucked" up post #345. It was a little bit strident for my taste
I'm a lib, I have a potty mouth. :(
| 379 |
TheMatrix31 Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:29:41am |
re: #355 jim in virginia
Disasters are exciting as long as you can watch from a safe distance.
Which is why, I guess, the rest of the world wanted Barack Hussein Obama to win the Presidency.
| 382 |
littleoldlady Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:31:03am |
Shoot. Messed up. :-/
J.D.,
A few years ago there was a hurricane that blew from the west coast of Florida across the state to the east coast straight through Hollywood. I'm thinking it was "Ivan" ?
Anyway, my aunts (one in her 80s, and one in her 90s) had been through a forced evacuation the year before. The aftermath found them stuck inland in a hotel without power while their building was unscathed and had a generator. So they stayed for Ivan, and they were fine. But Hollywood was NOT fine. My mom was supposed to fly down there a few days later, and when she called to ask my aunt if she should go, my aunt told her..."Sure! Come! We're okay...Oh, can you bring lots of cans of sardines and some yahrzeit candles?" (memorial candles that last 24 hours)
I'll never forgot that... ;-)
| 383 |
razorbacker Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:31:46am |
'Morning, Folks.
Interesting quote today, and obviously the product of a different time that one could speak of the whole capital of virtue that has accumulated since the dawn of time. You could peg Sir Doyle as a Victorian even if you did not know his birth date.
A curious race, the Victorians. Where one knew what was expected, and did what society expected, usually. They must have bowed up and rebelled on occasion, but still as the Titanic went down the band stayed in formation playing as the water closed over.
I guess that WWI, that war to end all wars, put paid on that particular account and ushered in the modern world.
| 384 |
BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:31:52am |
re: #377 jim in virginia
POTUS did not have the power or responsibility to evacuate New Orleans. Nagin and Blanco did, but wouldn't.
Bullshit. He's the POTUS. He should have done more, and he didn't.
He's the POTUS because he's supposed to have better insight, judgment, etc than a local official, right?
He has more responsibility and more power.
The buck stops with him.
| 385 |
BatGuano Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:32:11am |
re: #378 iceweasel
I updinded you because you're an honest potty mouthed lib.
| 387 |
sagehen Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:32:40am |
re: #360 BatGuano
I won't go as far as iceweasal in blaming bush, but the initial efforts should have been on the mayor and the governor: both were inadequate. After the disaster, President Bush should have moved heaven and earth to get the basics to the survivors, like water.
He didn't even have to move heaven and earth -- all he had to do was pick up a phone. The military was ready to go, waiting on orders. Posse comitatus is only about policing, there's no barrier to using them for national guard sort of rescue work. There was a navy hospital ship in the gulf that followed the hurricane in and sat offshore, waiting for orders. The 82nd airborne has practice dropping emergency supplies for disasters elsewhere in the world, but they didn't get the call either. Air Force helicopters at a dozen bases within easy flying distance sat on the tarmac, waiting to get word.
Condoleeza Rice was on vacation in NYC at the time. Bush could have put her back at her desk on less than 2 hours notice, but he didn't think there was any reason to cut short anyone's vacation. So she didn't return phone calls from the Dutch, who were offering instant-install Prefab Levees (they have a lot of practice with holding back water from cities).
And individual citizens who sprang into action and wanted to help? FEMA blocked them, for days. The "Cajun Navy" was kept sitting on a highway 50 miles away, with their boats on trailers. Supposedly because of insurance concerns. Doctors from dozens of states flew in to help out at the hospitals, but FEMA held them at the airport and told them (incorrectly) that their out-of-state licenses weren't good enough (there's good samaritan laws already on the books, plus the minute state of emergency was declared every medical license from every state was valid in the disaster zone). Ice trucks drove around for days, then took their loads of ice to a warehouse in Maine for storage because they didn't need ice, they needed water, and nobody at FEMA grasped the simple concept that ice can be turned into water. This is what happens when head of FEMA is treated as a patronage job.
| 388 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:34:02am |
re: #375 iceweasel
believe me, I'd agree that FEMA is a joke and lots of government needs review.
If there's ever a time for a POTUS to say "fuck protocol", though, it's when a major American city is drowning and dying.
I don't want to get too into this on a cool LNDT.
I'm not looking for a fight at all. And this isn't close to one.
| 389 |
TheMatrix31 Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:35:56am |
I'm a "potty mouthed" conservative, and I don't give a shit.
| 390 |
BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:36:24am |
re: #388 Cannadian Club Akbar
I'm not looking for a fight at all. And this isn't close to one.
Oh, I didn't mean you, I meant *me* unleashing my potty mouth and stridency further. :)
Katrina is a bit of a sore spot for me.
| 391 |
freetoken Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:38:39am |
re: #373 rightside
Both michelle malkin and hotair show empty to me, anyone else have that problem?
HA is shooting blanks, it seems...
| 392 |
BatGuano Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:39:28am |
re: #387 sagehen
Thank you for your contribution. I skimmed your post and I got stuck on how the Secretary of State would be involved. Is New Orleans a foreign Nation?
| 393 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:39:32am |
Has anyone brought up the fact that Florida got its ass kicked in '04. Everyone was screaming Global Warming. Funny, been mostly quiet for 5 years. That's weird.
| 394 |
Gus Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:40:00am |
FEMA: National Hurricane Program
Planning for Safe and Effective Evacuations
The National Hurricane Program (NHP) conducts Hurricane Evacuation Studies (HES) that guide the decision-making process for protecting the public when a hurricane threatens an area.
These studies help State and local communities establish evacuation plans by determining:
The probable effects of a hurricane
Predicting public response to the threat and advisories
Identifying appropriate shelters.Specifically, NHP conducts hazard and vulnerability analyses for coastal communities considering different types of storm threats. This includes:
Assessment of storm surge and wind impacts
Existing road and other transportation systems
Population (e.g., demographics, behavior analysis)
SheltersThis information helps officials determine where individuals are most likely to go when evacuating from a storm.
The NHP assists coastal communities by developing evacuation zones, which helps determine where and when the public should be ordered to evacuate as a storm approaches. This recommendation is negotiated among decision-makers within each community.
Once the evacuation zones are established, the NHP provides each community with corresponding evacuation maps and suggested clearance times for the various types of storm categories. The communities determine how to utilize these tools and recommendations, in developing their evacuation plans.
State and local communities are first in line and have the final responsibility for providing safe and effective evacuation.
| 395 |
UncleRancher Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:40:30am |
Just my humble opinion, but building a city near the coast on ground that is 20 feet below sea level and in the path of seasonal hurricanes? Where does that lie on the intelligence scale? This was a disaster waiting to happen, and it's still there.
| 396 |
sagehen Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:40:41am |
re: #392 BatGuano
Thank you for your contribution. I skimmed your post and I got stuck on how the Secretary of State would be involved. Is New Orleans a foreign Nation?
No, but the Netherlands is. She's who they'd go through to donate their useful city-below-sea-level thingmajiggies.
| 398 |
TheMatrix31 Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:42:03am |
re: #395 UncleRancher
Just my humble opinion, but building a city near the coast on ground that is 20 feet below sea level and in the path of seasonal hurricanes? Where does that lie on the intelligence scale? This was a disaster waiting to happen, and it's still there.
It's almost as low on the intelligence scale as staying when you fucking KNOW a monumental bitch of a storm is on its way.
| 399 |
J.D. Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:42:44am |
re: #382 littleoldlady
Smart, they were! I remember driving by Homestead Florida and seeing what little was left. There wasn't much. Some of my neighbors have built-in generators. I'm looking forward to having the 3rd lane of I-75 finished so I can get out faster if I need to!
In the meantime, I need to find some yahrzeit candles...
| 400 |
UncleRancher Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:42:54am |
re: #398 TheMatrix31
It's almost as low on the intelligence scale as staying when you fucking KNOW a monumental bitch of a storm is on its way.
Yes. Conclusion: People are stupid.
| 401 |
sagehen Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:43:17am |
re: #395 UncleRancher
Just my humble opinion, but building a city near the coast on ground that is 20 feet below sea level and in the path of seasonal hurricanes? Where does that lie on the intelligence scale? This was a disaster waiting to happen, and it's still there.
It didn't used to be that far below sea level, or below river level.
Flood control further up the Mississippi has prevented silt that used to shore up the city, so they've been sinking. And coastal erosion has exacerbated the flood surge through Lake Ponchartrain.
.
.
| 402 |
BatGuano Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:43:23am |
re: #396 sagehen
No, but the Netherlands is. She's who they'd go through to donate their useful city-below-sea-level thingmajiggies.
I'm laughing. I just don't know if I should be. :)
| 403 |
littleoldlady Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:43:39am |
People and animals who should be asleep are walking around here...
/grrr!
Before I go I just want to salute MY heros of Katrina:
1. The Coast Guard
2. Rick Perry (who I'm sure lived to regret his good-neighborliness)
3. The Salvation Army
Good day, ALL!™
| 406 |
Fenway_Nation Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:45:41am |
Good day, LoL...thanks again for letting me field-test the Fruitcupitron 3000
| 407 |
littleoldlady Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:46:28am |
re: #399 J.D.
By the case, although they should be MUCH cheaper at your local supermarket.
Thank YOU, FENWAY! :-)
*p00f*!
| 408 |
jim in virginia Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:46:29am |
re: #384 iceweasel
Bullshit. He's the POTUS. He should have done more, and he didn't.
He's the POTUS because he's supposed to have better insight, judgment, etc than a local official, right?
He has more responsibility and more power.
The buck stops with him.
You're a loon. The President is supposed to know more about the resources available to a city and state than the mayor and governor on the scene?
Nagin could have ordered evacuations. He didn't. Bush did not have the authority. We're a Federal system of government.
And Blanco delayed in granting the Feds authority to come in and help.
Did Bush and Brown screw up? Sure. But that doesn't let Nagin off the hook.
| 410 |
razorbacker Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:47:05am |
By the way. You are wasting your time with Iceweasel. She is a liberal. That means that she expects the federal government to ride in, regardless of the law, regardless of how the chain of authority is structured. She honestly expects Mommy Government to sweep in and take care of her.
Waste, steal, and bribe for generations and refuse to build or maintain your levees? Never mind, that is what the President does; he can ride in on his navy and rescue you.
Elect crooked pols for centuries, even to the point that you are a national laughingstock for it? Never mind. That is the President's job, to come riding in when that inevitable day arrives, and damn him for legalistic hiding behind the law. He has the power, he must use the power.
You just know that is the kind of thinking that applauds the rise of dictators, and revels in the warm, protective embrace of Momma Government. It is Liberalism, now Progressivism. It is the chains of safety, the smothering embrace of that government that takes care of your every need, whether you know that you need it or not.
You just have to love the modern Democrat; they only have your best interest at heart, if you only had the wit to see it.
| 411 |
BatGuano Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:47:54am |
Good night, everyone. If I offended anyone, it was unintentional. I love you all in a platonic non-sexual way.
| 412 |
Gus Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:48:24am |
Speaking of hurricanes. Rather slow hurricane season so far. What happened to the doomsayers' predictions of cataclysmic hurricanes devastating the globe for months and years to come? Wasn't that also supposed to be a part of the AGW "threat?"
| 413 |
BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:49:15am |
re: #410 razorbacker
Dude. That's bullshit. I'm a liberal but not even a Democrat, and you can't infer from the fact that I'm a lib that I think government is the answer to all our problems. You also can't find posts by me saying that government is the answer to all our problems.
So, your post is doubly unfair and untrue.
| 414 |
UncleRancher Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:49:18am |
re: #401 sagehen
It didn't used to be that far below sea level, or below river level.
Flood control further up the Mississippi has prevented silt that used to shore up the city, so they've been sinking. And coastal erosion has exacerbated the flood surge through Lake Ponchartrain.
.
.
Yes, I'm aware of the geography and I simplified it for editorial purposes. I remember being more than a little surprised when walking along the street in New Orleans one day and seeing a ship go by at a level WAY above the ground upon which I was standing at the time, then climbing a long set of stairs to get up to the point where we could board a river boat for the evening.
I concluded at the time that this is NOT where I wanted to live.
| 415 |
Fenway_Nation Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:49:27am |
re: #410 razorbacker
Funny how New Orleans could get an NBA team, but not enough money for the levees...
| 416 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:49:38am |
Another result of Katrina was the fact that Budweiser sent many cans of water to the area.
| 417 |
jim in virginia Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:49:53am |
re: #393 Cannadian Club Akbar
Yep. Everyone KNOWS global warming causes more frequent and severe hurricanes. We've had two or three very quiet seasons. Do the math.
| 418 |
TheMatrix31 Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:50:04am |
re: #412 Gus 802
Speaking of hurricanes. Rather slow hurricane season so far. What happened to the doomsayers' predictions of cataclysmic hurricanes devastating the globe for months and years to come? Wasn't that also supposed to be a part of the AGW "threat?"
Is AGW an acronym for "manmade global warning"?
Anyway, peak of the season is mid-August to mid-April...
| 419 |
BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:50:33am |
re: #408 jim in virginia
You're a loon.
Possibly, but not for my stance on Bush and Katrina. I direct you to sagehen's excellent post above.
| 420 |
TheMatrix31 Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:50:35am |
re: #418 TheMatrix31
Is AGW an acronym for "manmade global warning"?
Anyway, peak of the season is mid-August to mid-April...
August to September*
| 421 |
Gus Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:51:04am |
Says right here:
Hurricanes, typhoons, and cyclones have always bedeviled coasts, but global warming may be making matters worse. Sea level is rising and will continue to rise as oceans warm and glaciers melt. Rising sea level means higher storm surges, even from relatively minor storms, which increases coastal flooding and subsequent storm damage along coasts. In addition, the associated heavy rains can extend hundreds of miles inland, further increasing the risk of flooding.
| 422 |
Gus Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:52:42am |
| 423 |
TheMatrix31 Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:53:35am |
re: #422 Gus 802
Atlantic is June 1 to November 30.
Yeah I know, but the peak is from mid-August to mid-September...
| 424 |
Fenway_Nation Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:53:53am |
re: #421 Gus 802
Oh my gosh! Well...we better do something about it, like urge our congresscritters to pass Card Check 0bamacare a second stimulus Cap and Trade, which I'm sure is not designed to enrich politicians in any way shape or form and will completely 100% solve the problem now that 0bama's in the White house...
| 425 |
UncleRancher Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:54:28am |
re: #421 Gus 802
I prefer to go outside and look. Last year we were a full month late getting the garden in because of snow. This year the cherry crop is 3 weeks late and counting. This year it was four weeks later getting the hay cut on the north side because of excessive ground water from all the snow.
| 426 |
Gus Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:56:00am |
re: #423 TheMatrix31
Yeah I know, but the peak is from mid-August to mid-September...
Right.
re: #424 Fenway_Nation
Oh my gosh! Well...we better do something about it, like urge our congresscritters to pass
CardCheck0bamacareasecondstimulusCap and Trade, which I'm sure is not designed to enrich politicians in any way shape or form and will completely 100% solve the problem now that 0bama's in the White house...
That's the ticket! If I "spend more money" we'll see less of the predicted hurricanes!
"Mommy, what cause hurricanes?"
"Oh honey didn't they teach you in school. Oil companies cause hurricanes."
//
| 427 |
BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Jul 21, 2009 3:58:42am |
re: #414 UncleRancher
Yes, I'm aware of the geography and I simplified it for editorial purposes. I remember being more than a little surprised when walking along the street in New Orleans one day and seeing a ship go by at a level WAY above the ground upon which I was standing at the time, then climbing a long set of stairs to get up to the point where we could board a river boat for the evening.
I concluded at the time that this is NOT where I wanted to live.
But that can be said of so many places in the US.
NYC and DC have had terrorism and are surely targeted for more attacks. (and damn unpleasant summers).
The midwest has flooding and tornados.
the midatlantic and south have hurricanes.
The west coast has earthquakes.
Lots of places might have a disaster; I don't think we can write those off as 'the people living there should have lived elsewhere.
| 428 |
razorbacker Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:00:02am |
re: #413 iceweasel
Dude. That's bullshit. I'm a liberal but not even a Democrat, and you can't infer from the fact that I'm a lib that I think government is the answer to all our problems. You also can't find posts by me saying that government is the answer to all our problems.
So, your post is doubly unfair and untrue.
Ma'am, I don't blame you for it. It is your nature. I would no more blame you than I blame a rattlesnake for striking, or a dog for eating feces; is their nature.
Your posts reveal your nature. As a fellow human we must accept you as you are, in both your glory and shame. To maintain that a President should break laws when it suits you for him to override laws is part and parcel of a modern Progressive/Liberal, bless your heart. To expect someone else to save you from your own actions is part and parcel of modern Liberal/Progressivism, bless your heart.
I realize that you have only the best of intentions. They pave, as the old saw goes, the road to hell.
| 430 |
BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:01:29am |
re: #428 razorbacker
To maintain that a President should break laws when it suits you for him to override laws is part and parcel of
...the Republican party, cf Bush Cheney.
| 431 |
Gus Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:02:24am |
re: #425 UncleRancher
I prefer to go outside and look. Last year we were a full month late getting the garden in because of snow. This year the cherry crop is 3 weeks late and counting. This year it was four weeks later getting the hay cut on the north side because of excessive ground water from all the snow.
It's been cooler in Colorado that's for sure. Zero 100 degree days thus far. Upper 80s for the most part which is nice and I get to keep the AC off and just use the fan coil. Looks like they're saying El Niño is back and that should increase the rain and reduce the likelihood and intensity of hurricanes.
I know it's difficult to be optimistic with our AGW overseers. I sometimes wonder if we do get a drop in temps will they acknowledge it or find another way to justify their policy intentions.
| 432 |
TheMatrix31 Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:02:53am |
Hurricanes are the only storm that you can fully plan for and evacuate.
I'd rather live in hurricane territory than earthquake territory any day, because you have no damn clue when the earthquake is coming.
| 433 |
UncleRancher Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:06:52am |
There is nothing, at all, I can do to change the past. I can only deal in the here and now, and that might influence the future. What we have here and now is a disaster in the economy. What we have here and now is very little being done to correct the problems. It is very frustrating.
| 434 |
freetoken Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:07:12am |
re: #427 iceweasel
Lots of places might have a disaster; I don't think we can write those off as 'the people living there should have lived elsewhere.
People do that though... it is a type of "they had it coming" method of assigning blame.
To me it seems quite clear that the disaster response by the local NOLA government/officials could have been much better.
Yet, to write off an entire area with a "you should have known better" misses the mark, significantly.
The mouth of the Mississippi is a strategic national asset, and one in which the Federal government has been involved for many years. The United States government is directly responsible for maintaining the levees and passageways.
Furthermore, with all the economic activity that does depend upon that region, activity which affects all of Americans' lives, it is required to have a local population to do the work!
In the end, AGW may well doom NOLA, (and normal subsidence alone is a beast that defeat the best efforts,) but the end may not come for another century.
| 435 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:07:18am |
re: #432 TheMatrix31
Hurricanes are the only storm that you can fully plan for and evacuate.
I'd rather live in hurricane territory than earthquake territory any day, because you have no damn clue when the earthquake is coming.
The hardest thing about a hurricane is they want you to have 2 weeks worth of medication on hand. 2 cases of Canadian Club and 4 cases of beer ain't cheap.
| 436 |
BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:08:27am |
re: #428 razorbacker
Ma'am, I don't blame you for it. It is your nature. I would no more blame you than I blame a rattlesnake for striking, or a dog for eating feces; is their nature.
Your posts reveal your nature.
Indeed, our posts reveal our nature. You won't find me making postis saying "all conservatives", or "all republicans", in the way you just claimed to know facts about "all liberals" or "all progressives".
You also won't find me claiming to know anything about an individual's nature, based merely on their political affiliation, the way you claim to.
And finally, you won't find me comparing people who have opposing political opinions to rattlesnakes that need to strike, or to dogs that eat shit.
Do you think your post reveals your nature?
I'm too charitable to assume that, so I'll assume you misspoke or are just having a bad day.
| 437 |
Gus Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:08:32am |
re: #435 Cannadian Club Akbar
The hardest thing about a hurricane is they want you to have 2 weeks worth of medication on hand. 2 cases of Canadian Club and 4 cases of beer ain't cheap.
I imagine maintaining those two cases of Club would be difficult.
//
| 438 |
UncleRancher Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:08:53am |
re: #435 Cannadian Club Akbar
The hardest thing about a hurricane is they want you to have 2 weeks worth of medication on hand. 2 cases of Canadian Club and 4 cases of beer ain't cheap.
Roger that!! Ha Ha Ha
| 439 |
3 wood Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:09:02am |
Good morning.
At the moment the futures point to the market opening on the upside. The market was up a little over 1% yesterday.
Bernanke: May Need to Tighten to Prevent Inflation
The Federal Reserve will need to rein in accommodative measures to prevent inflation as a recovery takes hold, though the pace and timing will depend on the strength of the economy, central bank Chairman Ben Bernanke said in a Wall Street Journal article.
"Overall, the Federal Reserve has many effective tools to tighten monetary policy when the economic outlook requires us to do so. As my colleagues and I have stated, however, economic conditions are not likely to warrant tighter monetary policy for an extended period," Bernanke said in an op-ed article dated July 20 seen on the paper's website.
Bernanke pointed out two ways the Fed can tighten policy: raising the interest rate on bank reserves held at the Fed, and reducing the overall stock of reserves.
Both those steps will serve to increase inflation in the short run. If you notice though he is telling you that the economy won't be getting better any time real soon.
| 440 |
razorbacker Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:09:48am |
re: #430 iceweasel
...the Republican party, cf Bush Cheney.
Your spinning, were it wool instead of talking points, would no doubt yield a most impressive sweater, or cardigan, or nice warm muffler.
Perhaps even a pair of cute baby booties, were you so inclined.
However, I tire of talking to a post. At some point, one must simply realize that some folk's ignorance is an integral point of reference, and so beloved as a touchstone that to remove it would be a soul-shattering event.
I grow bored. On to more reasonable and manageable topics.
So, this abortion thing. Seems to be here to stay, doesn't it?
| 441 |
TheMatrix31 Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:11:10am |
re: #431 Gus 802
It's been cooler in Colorado that's for sure. Zero 100 degree days thus far. Upper 80s for the most part which is nice and I get to keep the AC off and just use the fan coil. Looks like they're saying El Niño is back and that should increase the rain and reduce the likelihood and intensity of hurricanes.
I know it's difficult to be optimistic with our AGW overseers. I sometimes wonder if we do get a drop in temps will they acknowledge it or find another way to justify their policy intentions.
Woohoo, El Nino!
I love rain.
| 443 |
Gus Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:14:01am |
re: #441 TheMatrix31
Woohoo, El Nino!
I love rain.
You bet. The showers are back here. We had some drought years and I can't stand it when it gets so hot and dry you can smell the paint melting and the dry leaves dance in the wind. Then you get the ants which are a pain in the keister. Right now hearing El Nino reminds me of simpler times before this "Silent Spring" like hysteria took over.
| 444 |
UncleRancher Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:14:13am |
re: #439 3 wood
Housing usually leads the way out of recessions. Present housing starts are in the 350 to 400 thousand range. We normally consider one million housing starts to be the disaster point. Good times are when we hit 2 million. The average for the past 40 years is slightly above 1.5 million.
I'm sure that tightening credit will help us out of this economic disaster -- NOT.
Every time you look around this administration seems to be doing the wrong things.
| 445 |
Sharmuta Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:15:23am |
re: #436 iceweasel
What's interesting, iDub, is the right prides itself on being anti-collectivist, but then employs collectivism to lump the left all in with each other. I prefer to take people as individuals.
| 446 |
freetoken Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:15:25am |
re: #444 UncleRancher
Every time you look around this administration seems to be doing the wrong things.
Um... weren't the proposals listed from the Federal Reserve?
| 447 |
3 wood Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:16:04am |
From the self described most transparent administration in history:
Bailout Watchdog Says Treasury Ignores Advice
T
he U.S. Treasury Department ignores advice on how to help the public better understand how banks are using hundreds of billions of dollars of taxpayer funds they were given, the government's bailout watchdog said Monday.
Neil Barofsky, the Special Inspector General for the $700 billion Troubled Asset Relief Program (TARP), said in a report that Treasury has made only limited steps toward implementing recommendations that his office has made."It has repeatedly failed to adopt recommendations that SIGTARP believes are essential to providing basic transparency," Barofsky said, noting that Treasury won't even put a value on its TARP portfolio.
"Notwithstanding that Treasury has now retained asset managers and is receiving such valuation data on a monthly basis, Treasury has not committed to providing such information except on the statutorily required annual basis,"
he said.
If this was Bush, you would be seeing this leading the news broadcasts.
| 448 |
jim in virginia Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:16:32am |
re: #427 iceweasel
NYC and DC have had terrorism and are surely targeted for more attacks. (and damn unpleasant summers).
We have perfect weather here year round.
///
| 449 |
Sharmuta Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:18:52am |
I really don't agree with the idea of taking leftist tactics and altering them to suit the right. Looking like left-wing whiners isn't going to help the conservative movement. And I mean Goldwater when I say "conservative".
| 450 |
rightside Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:19:35am |
re: #447 3 wood
What a failure geithner is. And he was the only person that knew how to fix the economy.
| 451 |
BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:20:55am |
re: #445 Sharmuta
What's interesting, iDub, is the right prides itself on being anti-collectivist, but then employs collectivism to lump the left all in with each other. I prefer to take people as individuals.
I notice a few ironies in the right of late. One is that while they shriek about Obama having a personality cult, they're all too eager to form one of their own-- whether it's Bush dead-enders or people worshipping Palin.
Obama does have a personality cult-- so did (and does) Bush. Both are bad. It's weird to see some of the people on the left who decried Bush's cult flocking to form one around Obama-- and the people on the right who insist Obama only has a personality cult are most fervent in their love of Palin and their wish to form some sort of personality cult on the right.
As you've said before, it's like they've cast the part but don't even have the script yet.
| 452 |
3 wood Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:21:30am |
re: #444 UncleRancher
Every time you look around this administration seems to be doing the wrong things.
This is why the Messiah is trying for force a vote on nationalizing health care right now. As time goes by more hand more people will realize what a failure he is.
Expect to see even more attack jobs by the MSM and spin artists on blogs against Palin and Bush trying to save the Messiah.
| 453 |
UncleRancher Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:22:28am |
re: #446 freetoken
Um... weren't the proposals listed from the Federal Reserve?
The problems start with housing and forcing banks to provide mortgages to people who could not afford them. What has been done to correct this fundamental problem? Let's mortgage the entire country, spend money we don't have and cannot afford to pay back. It seems like if it was a bad idea for homeowners it would also be a bad idea for the country, but NO.
Where did all that money go? Presumably it was to buy up all those toxic asset mortgages and give those people who couldn't afford them free houses.
| 454 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:23:38am |
re: #450 rightside
What a failure geithner is. And he was the only person that knew how to fix the economy.
Were have you been? Don't you know we have sliced ham?
/
| 455 |
Gus Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:24:10am |
Anyone ever read Geithner's early bio?
Geithner was born in Brooklyn, New York. He spent most of his childhood living outside the United States, including present-day Zimbabwe, Zambia, India, and Thailand where he completed high school at International School Bangkok in Bangkok, Thailand. He attended Camp Becket-in-the-Berkshires-for-boys, a summer camp located in western Massachusetts. He then attended Dartmouth College, graduating with a B.A. in government and Asian studies in 1983. In the process he studied Mandarin at Peking University in 1981 and at Beijing Normal University in 1982. He earned an M.A. in international economics and East Asian studies from Johns Hopkins University's School of Advanced International Studies in 1985. He has studied Chinese and Japanese.
Geithner's paternal grandfather, Paul Herman Geithner (1902–1972), emigrated with his parents from the German town of Zeulenroda to Philadelphia, Pennsylvania in 1908. His father, Peter F. Geithner, is the director of the Asia program at the Ford Foundation in New York. During the early 1980s, Peter Geithner oversaw the Ford Foundation's microfinance programs in Indonesia being developed by S. Ann Dunham-Soetoro, President Barack Obama's mother, and they met in person at least once. Timothy Geithner's mother, Deborah Moore Geithner, is a pianist and piano teacher in Larchmont, New York where his parents currently reside. Geithner's maternal grandfather, Charles F. Moore, was an adviser to President Dwight D. Eisenhower and served as Vice President of Public Relations from 1952-1964 for Ford Motor Company.
Another bullshit artist just like his boss.
| 456 |
UncleRancher Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:24:15am |
re: #454 Cannadian Club Akbar
Were have you been? Don't you know we have sliced ham?
/
T hat's a form of pork, right?
| 457 |
JacksonTn Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:24:30am |
re: #452 3 wood
This is why the Messiah is trying for force a vote on nationalizing health care right now. As time goes by more hand more people will realize what a failure he is.
Expect to see even more attack jobs by the MSM and spin artists on blogs against Palin and Bush trying to save the Messiah.
3wood ... Good Morning ... and yes I believe you are right ... it is why many of my business friends and associates and fellow farmers have been on the phones all last week and yesterday calling everyone we know and there are many of us calling our representatives ... I believe they are starting to listen ... it only takes a minute and faxes are even better ... Obama is already now pushing back the dates he wanted something passed ... we have to keep pushing back ...
| 458 |
Sharmuta Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:25:20am |
re: #451 iceweasel
I notice a few ironies in the right of late. One is that while they shriek about Obama having a personality cult, they're all too eager to form one of their own-- whether it's Bush dead-enders or people worshipping Palin.
Obama does have a personality cult-- so did (and does) Bush. Both are bad. It's weird to see some of the people on the left who decried Bush's cult flocking to form one around Obama-- and the people on the right who insist Obama only has a personality cult are most fervent in their love of Palin and their wish to form some sort of personality cult on the right.
As you've said before, it's like they've cast the part but don't even have the script yet.
I agree- it's the rise of populism in both parties. Populism works at the moment, but lacks strong foundations, imo. That's why some on the left are upset with 0bama- he couldn't keep his more left-populist promises, because assuming office brings a heavy does of pragmatism that can and does stop populism in its tracks.
| 459 |
BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:25:55am |
re: #452 3 wood
Expect to see even more attack jobs by the MSM and spin artists on blogs against Palin and Bush trying to save the Messiah.
Attacking Bush and Palin does nothing to rescue Obama.
BTW, folks, look for a major blog push for Obama in the next week on health care. Obama had a conference call with progressive bloggers last night about it.
| 460 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:26:27am |
| 461 |
SixDegrees Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:27:00am |
re: #384 iceweasel
Bullshit. He's the POTUS. He should have done more, and he didn't.
He's the POTUS because he's supposed to have better insight, judgment, etc than a local official, right?
He has more responsibility and more power.
The buck stops with him.
For what it's worth, we're a Federation of sovereign states. FEMA can't simply barge in to a state and start setting up aid; they require formal permission from the governor of that state before they can do so. The only exception is when the state government has ceased to function - for example, if the governor is incompetent or incapacitated in some way, and it is determined that the chain of command within the state has broken down to the point where Federal oversight is necessary.
A friend of ours was a member of an early-response FEMA team, part of a convoy of water trucks, medical and food supplies and temporary shelter (tents, mostly) that assembled in Texas and wound up sitting at the Texas/Louisiana border for over 36 hours, waiting for permission to proceed to arrive from Blanco's office and blocked from entry by Lousiana State Police. This followed repeated attempts to gain that permission that began while the team was being assembled, while it was en route and while it was sitting just across the Lousiana line doing nothing.
Based on his stories, the ball was firmly in Blanco's court, and she dropped it. In retrospect, maybe it would have been appropriate for the Feds to declare Banco incompetent and roll over her borders based on that decision; the outcry would have been every bit as horrendous as what emerged anyway, but it might have saved a few lives. But the fact is that a whole pile of Federal assistance wound up parked in the booneys while that idiot bitch sat on her ass playing politics with a catastrophe.
| 462 |
3 wood Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:29:03am |
Some progress in California:
California Budget Deal Reached By Legislators, Schwarzenegger
J
uly 21 (Bloomberg) -- California lawmakers reached an agreement with Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger over how to close a $26 billion budget deficit that pushed the most-populous U.S. state to the brink of insolvency.The deal, reached by legislative leaders after two months of frequently acrimonious negotiations, would slash spending for schools, public works and welfare programs amid the longest recession since the 1930s. If approved by the full Senate and Assembly, the agreement will also siphon money from municipalities, force companies and individuals to pay income taxes sooner and make it more difficult to receive state aid.
“We came to a basic agreement, a budget agreement,” Schwarzenegger told reporters outside his office last evening. “This is a budget that has no tax increases and this is a budget that is cutting spending and it deals with the entire $26 billion deficit.”
It will be very interesting to see if this passes. I can't see the left wing in California voting to cut the transfer of wealth to their base by cutting welfare.
I also expect to hear that businesses are moving out of California at increasing rates.
| 463 |
BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:29:33am |
re: #458 Sharmuta
I agree- it's the rise of populism in both parties. Populism works at the moment, but lacks strong foundations, imo. That's why some on the left are upset with 0bama- he couldn't keep his more left-populist promises, because assuming office brings a heavy does of pragmatism that can and does stop populism in its tracks.
Palin is populist. But is Obama? What populist promises has he broken?
I can find a lot of promises he broke, but I'm not so sure he should be called populist.
I can also give a huge list of things he's done the prog/left dislikes or hates.
| 464 |
Gus Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:29:56am |
re: #451 iceweasel
Ice, for me it's like this.
A. Bush is no longer president.
B. Palin will resign her office as governor of Alaska.
C. Palin is not the VP -- she lost remember?
D. Obama is the POTUS.
"D" is all it takes. No amount of "yeah but Bushisms" will change the fact that we have a fool in the White House.
Nothing personal of course.
| 465 |
UncleRancher Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:30:20am |
It's been fun but I got to run. Livestock to feed.
| 466 |
rightside Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:30:57am |
re: #454 Cannadian Club Akbar
The federal government is failure. Yet people still believe it is the panacea. The first words out of their mouths is, the federal government should provide ___ to these poor people. Trillions of dollars later, they are no better off than they were before.
in⋅san⋅i⋅ty - noun
Doing the same thing over and over, and expecting different results.
| 467 |
Sharmuta Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:31:37am |
re: #463 iceweasel
I think a lot of the Iraq/WoT rhetoric was left-wing populism.
| 468 |
BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:32:50am |
re: #464 Gus 802
Ice, for me it's like this.
A. Bush is no longer president.
B. Palin will resign her office as governor of Alaska.
C. Palin is not the VP -- she lost remember?
D. Obama is the POTUS."D" is all it takes. No amount of "yeah but Bushisms" will change the fact that we have a fool in the White House.
Nothing personal of course.
See my comment above. Attacking Palin or Bush doesn't help Obama.
BTW, Check the thread history. I'm saying Bush fucked up on Katrina-- because the topic came up. I don't care how badly he fucked up there; it won't stop me from criticisng Obama when he fucks up.
This isn't a game of "Yeah, but look at what YOUR GUY did!"
| 469 |
3 wood Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:33:14am |
re: #459 iceweasel
Attacking Bush and Palin does nothing to rescue Obama.
It distracts attention from Obama's mounting failures. Distraction is straight out of the Chicago Way handbook.
| 471 |
SixDegrees Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:34:17am |
re: #462 3 wood
Some progress in California:
California Budget Deal Reached By Legislators, Schwarzenegger
J
It will be very interesting to see if this passes. I can't see the left wing in California voting to cut the transfer of wealth to their base by cutting welfare.I also expect to hear that businesses are moving out of California at increasing rates.
I'm not expecting this to survive debate. The partisan deadlock in the Legislature is hopeless; I would be very surprised to see this break through it.
| 472 |
Sharmuta Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:37:40am |
re: #468 iceweasel
This isn't a game of "Yeah, but look at what YOUR GUY did!"
And again- both the left and right use this logical fallacy and both sides should be called on it when its employed.
Yeah? Well look at what Bush did!
Yeah? Well look at what Clinton did!
Yeah? Well look at what Nixon did!
Mostly, I'm pissed at what Taft did. What a RINO.
| 473 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:39:08am |
re: #472 Sharmuta
And again- both the left and right use this logical fallacy and both sides should be called on it when its employed.
Yeah? Well look at what Bush did!
Yeah? Well look at what Clinton did!
Yeah? Well look at what Nixon did!Mostly, I'm pissed at what Taft did. What a RINO.
IIRC, Taft gave us the 7th inning strech.
| 475 |
freetoken Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:40:02am |
re: #471 SixDegrees
I'm not expecting this to survive debate. The partisan deadlock in the Legislature is hopeless; I would be very surprised to see this break through it.
Arnold wants it to go through, the Dem and GOP leadership appear to want it to go through... whether the rank and file will follow the script is another question.
The Governor has the ability to keep furloughing employees... though he can't unilaterally renegotiate the contracts/agreements. That's all Arnold has left - furloughs and threats of more. The "discretionary" budget is just tidbits here and there... and higher education budget cuts just cut new-hires and construction, etc., and not cut salaries.
No one wants to take a salary cut - understandable, in most cases, but when the bottom of the barrel has been reached the salaries/retirement will have to give some.
There is no other way, unless you want to raise taxes somewhere, and at this point those taxes would have to be broad based and will significantly hurt many families.
Reality is starting to intrude...
| 476 |
3 wood Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:40:19am |
re: #461 SixDegrees
100% accurate. Disaster recovery is a local jurisdiction item, they have to give permission for the Fed's to come in and get involved. In the case of Katrina, the locals refused to allow the Fed's in for quite a while. I have both family and friends who were involved in the effort were beside themselves with frustration.
Here's an interesting item, the assisting agencies for Katrina had to bring their own communications systems cause the New Orleans officials turned the local ones off. The MSM kind of forgot to mention that one when they were keel-hauling Bush.
| 478 |
SixDegrees Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:40:44am |
re: #469 3 wood
It distracts attention from Obama's mounting failures. Distraction is straight out of the Chicago Way handbook.
In the last 24 hours, the Administration has:
- Failed to meet a deadline to produce a budget plan, pushing release back a full month.
- Failed to meet a deadline outlining it's solution to the problem of how to try or release detainees at Gitmo for an indefinite period of time.
- Failed to issue a report on it's self-imposed demand that all Cabinet members cut $100,000,000 from their department budgets, deferring release of any information on the progress of the Cabinet in slashing a tiny fraction of a percent from the Federal budget until another indefinite future date.
Meanwhile, they're practicing their "Look! A squirrel!" routine for the media, hoping something other than their own dismal shortcomings catch the spotlight for a while.
| 479 |
BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:41:02am |
re: #469 3 wood
It distracts attention from Obama's mounting failures.
You think it does?
I don't think it distracts any attention from criticism of Obama. I'm on the left, and we're spending a lot more time bitching about Obama than we are Bush or Palin, believe me. Bush is gone and the activist left are laughing at Palin-- not fearing her, not worrying about her.(whether they're right to laugh is another issue)
I guess for the media and the average non-political person, they'll chase the shiny object. Palin is a shiny shiny object. The media loves her. That doesn't mean they give her favourable coverage, it means they love covering her every move.
Again, heads up everyone. Health care and major progressive blog push for Obama care this week, due to his conference call last night with the prog bloggers.
Look for lots of spin this week and forthcoming, from both sides.
| 480 |
haakondahl Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:41:09am |
re: #387 sagehen
There was a navy hospital ship in the gulf that followed the hurricane in and sat offshore, waiting for orders. The 82nd airborne has practice dropping emergency supplies for disasters elsewhere in the world, but they didn't get the call either. Air Force helicopters at a dozen bases within easy flying distance sat on the tarmac, waiting to get word.
Condoleeza Rice ... didn't return phone calls from the Dutch, who were offering instant-install Prefab Levees...
This is what happens when head of FEMA is treated as a patronage job.
You may not believe this, but in the united States of America, we live in one of many Sovereign States, each of which is directly responsible for their citizenry, so much as government at all is responsible. The President is elected by an Electoral College, the makeup of which is determined not by "the people", but by the several States. The Judicial branh is nominated by that Executive and confirmed by the Senate, which in turn is elected on a state-by-state basis. Even the House, the most democratically oriented institution of the Federal government, is still elected according to methods in which the state has a controlling interest.
We are U.S. Citizens in charter, and State citizens in practice.
New Orleans had a government. Louisiana had a government. You even mentioned the massive resources that were put in place and stalled waiting for orders. Do you think that the U.S. military simply mutinied to come to the aid of their oppressed countrymen? BULLSHIT! The President ordered all of those assets into position and the STATE OF LOUISIANA refused to pull the trigger. They didn't want any of that contaminated Republican help. That right there is you ugly political story about Katrina.
So screw Louisiana, screw New Orleans, screw Kanye West, and screw everybody else who cannot see that the largest and fastest response ever to the worst natural disaster to befall a major city was spiked by the Goddamned Democrats. EVEN SO, the heroic actions of the Coast Guard, the various State Guards, and eventually the regular military saved untold lives (of people who should have been forcibly evacuated by the City and State governments), and reflect great credit upon themselves, their respective services, and yes, the Federal government. FEMA is a soup sandwich and always has been, since back when it was called CD. No news there, but you'll probably find a way to lay that at Bush's feet as well.
The real story of Katrina is DECADES of mismanagement by the Democrats who ran that place into the ground. The levees were chronically underfunded, as money that was supposed to go to levees was usually diverted to fund State pork by the Orleans Levee Board, a body consisting of
6 members appointed by the Governor; must be qualified electors of Orleans Parish. Mayor of New Orleans or his designee and 1 other member of N.O. City Council, appointed by Mayor, serves Ex-Officio.
with not one engineer required. Right there is your "patronage jobs" fallout. The most egregious examples of this theft were during the Clinton administration, but I don't hold him accountable for the actions of State government. It's none of his damned business. The Corps of Engineers can only use money which the Federal Government sets aside and which the State government allocates as priorities within that State. The STATE must remain standing up on the job. The Orleans Levee District was a filthy money-hole which served only to prop Democrats up in office through plum appointments and lots of discretionary money. President Bush was RIGHT to slash funding for it, because no matter how much money the Feds threw at the problem, the STATE was throwing it away.
In short, what went right with the Katrina response was the Federal side.
| 481 |
Gus Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:44:42am |
re: #468 iceweasel
See my comment above. Attacking Palin or Bush doesn't help Obama.
BTW, Check the thread history. I'm saying Bush fucked up on Katrina-- because the topic came up. I don't care how badly he fucked up there; it won't stop me from criticisng Obama when he fucks up.
This isn't a game of "Yeah, but look at what YOUR GUY did!"
Ice, I was going to respond but after reading you say, "BTW, Check the thread history" I think I'll pass.
| 482 |
reine.de.tout Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:46:46am |
re: #480 haakondahl
We are U.S. Citizens in charter, and State citizens in practice.
New Orleans had a government. Louisiana had a government. You even mentioned the massive resources that were put in place and stalled waiting for orders. Do you think that the U.S. military simply mutinied to come to the aid of their oppressed countrymen? BULLSHIT! The President ordered all of those assets into position and the STATE OF LOUISIANA refused to pull the trigger. They didn't want any of that contaminated Republican help. That right there is you ugly political story about Katrina.So screw Louisiana, screw New Orleans, screw Kanye West, and screw everybody else who cannot see that the largest and fastest response ever to the worst natural disaster to befall a major city was spiked by the Goddamned Democrats. EVEN SO, the heroic actions of the Coast Guard, the various State Guards, and eventually the regular military saved untold lives (of people who should have been forcibly evacuated by the City and State governments), and reflect great credit upon themselves, their respective services, and yes, the Federal government. FEMA is a soup sandwich and always has been, since back when it was called CD. No news there, but you'll probably find a way to lay that at Bush's feet as well.
The real story of Katrina is DECADES of mismanagement by the Democrats who ran that place into the ground. The levees were chronically underfunded, as money that was supposed to go to levees was usually diverted to fund State pork by the Orleans Levee Board, a body consisting of6 members appointed by the Governor; must be qualified electors of Orleans Parish. Mayor of New Orleans or his designee and 1 other member of N.O. City Council, appointed by Mayor, serves Ex-Officio. with not one engineer required. Right there is your "patronage jobs" fallout. The most egregious examples of this theft were during the Clinton administration, but I don't hold him accountable for the actions of State government. It's none of his damned business. The Corps of Engineers can only use money which the Federal Government sets aside and which the State government allocates as priorities within that State. The STATE must remain standing up on the job. The Orleans Levee District was a filthy money-hole which served only to prop Democrats up in office through plum appointments and lots of discretionary money. President Bush was RIGHT to slash funding for it, because no matter how much money the Feds threw at the problem, the STATE was throwing it away.
In short, what went right with the Katrina response was the Federal side.
You are right on target with your assessment.
I will add only one thing: The employees of the Louisiana Dept of Wildlife and Fisheries had a plan in place, and it was beautifully executed, which allowed employees of that Dept to be in N.O. immediately after the storm had passed, and they began rescue operations with their limited equipment, and they worked 24/7 for weeks. There weren't enough of them to do the whole job all by themselves, but they were there and helping almost immediately, not needing an order from the Gov to do their jobs.
| 483 |
haakondahl Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:46:51am |
re: #428 razorbacker
I actually updinged this post, despite the fact that it is dripping with sarcasm directed as somebody I like. Behind the sarcasm, however, and in a civil tone, even if mockingly civil, are some very important truths. Thou goest a bit far in ascribing attributes to an individual, but in general, the points you make are the fundamental difference in expected/demanded outcome from the constrained and unconstrained visions. It is why the right wants a Republic, and the left wants a Democracy. Thanks heavens it's a Republic :-)
| 484 |
3 wood Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:48:36am |
Hey, anybody remember when a few weeks ago I predicted that the administration would be trying to move the goal posts and lowering expectations as their failed policies become more and more obvious?
Get this:
Summers Urges Banks to Lend More, Says Recovery Pace ‘in Doubt’
July 21 (Bloomberg) -- White House National Economic Council Director Lawrence Summers chastised some banks that received government aid for not doing enough to reduce foreclosures, while declaring that next year’s economic growth pace is “in doubt.”
Here we go. The Democrats drag bankers before Congress and grill them on camera about making too many loans to score points with the public. Now they are upset that the banks are hesitant to make more loans.
Brilliant.
| 485 |
razorbacker Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:49:03am |
Obviously Gaia herself does not wish me to post this A.M., having sent storms and vexations to trouble my satellite.
It is touching, however, to see the faith and trust in my abilities that the housecritters show. Yes, I have have let it rain buckets out the back door, but surely I haven't been so thoughtless as to allow it to rain out the front door, too.
But it seems that I have.
I'll call this hour short, on account of rain.
| 486 |
3 wood Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:49:35am |
re: #478 SixDegrees
Meanwhile, they're practicing their "Look! A squirrel!" routine for the media, hoping something other than their own dismal shortcomings catch the spotlight for a while.
And with the MSM worshipping Obama, that will work out pretty well for them.
| 487 |
haakondahl Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:50:14am |
re: #432 TheMatrix31
Hurricanes are the only storm that you can fully plan for and evacuate.
I'd rather live in hurricane territory than earthquake territory any day, because you have no damn clue when the earthquake is coming.
Point. Counterpoint.
| 488 |
3 wood Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:51:38am |
Got to head to work.
Work hard today folks, a lot of ACORN members are depending on you for their hand outs.
| 490 |
BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:53:18am |
re: #483 haakondahl
I actually updinged this post, despite the fact that it is dripping with sarcasm directed as somebody I like. Behind the sarcasm, however, and in a civil tone, even if mockingly civil, are some very important truths. Thou goest a bit far in ascribing attributes to an individual, but in general, the points you make are the fundamental difference in expected/demanded outcome from the constrained and unconstrained visions. It is why the right wants a Republic, and the left wants a Democracy. Thanks heavens it's a Republic :-)
Saying the people from the other political persuasion are "rattlenakes that need to strike" and "dogs that have to eat shit" because "that's they're nature" expresses an important truth?
I think he did make an important point, just not the one he intended. He made the point that there's a shitload of partisan hatred and demonisation of 'the other side' in this country. As long as people engage in that, we're not going to see any progress in political debate in this country, nor any improvement in the standards of discourse.
| 491 |
BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:54:10am |
| 492 |
haakondahl Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:55:33am |
re: #451 iceweasel
As you've said before, it's like they've cast the part but don't even have the script yet.
You know how reluctant I am to argue, really, but if the script for a President is written before he is chosen, doesn't that more or less do away with the need to elect a President at all?
I take your point of course, I was just struck by the contrast. We do need to build a platform before stomping around on it.
| 493 |
haakondahl Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:59:17am |
re: #484 3 wood
Here we go. The Democrats drag bankers before Congress and grill them on camera about making too many loans to score points with the public. Now they are upset that the banks are hesitant to make more loans.
And let's don't forget that the credit crisis was brought about by the insisting that lenders loan money to people who can't pay their bills. To score points with the public.
Gee, maybe the government ought to stay the Hell out of business' business.
| 494 |
BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Jul 21, 2009 4:59:30am |
re: #481 Gus 802
Ice, I was going to respond but after reading you say, "BTW, Check the thread history" I think I'll pass.
Fair enough. Understandable too. :)
| 495 |
rightside Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:00:04am |
re: #493 haakondahl
And let's don't forget that the credit crisis was brought about by the insisting that lenders loan money to people who can't pay their bills. To score points with the public.
Gee, maybe the government ought to stay the Hell out of
business'any business.
FTFY
| 496 |
haakondahl Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:07:27am |
re: #490 iceweasel
Saying the people from the other political persuasion are "rattlenakes that need to strike" and "dogs that have to eat shit" because "that's they're nature" expresses an important truth?
Be honest--the way it was phrased, it carries even less strength than a simile. It was a well-written, bitterly sarcastic post. And I know that you don't think that I think that that was the "important truth". I think.
I think he did make an important point, just not the one he intended. He made the point that there's a shitload of partisan hatred and demonisation of 'the other side' in this country. As long as people engage in that, we're not going to see any progress in political debate in this country, nor any improvement in the standards of discourse.
Agreed. Updinged.
| 497 |
JamesTKirk Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:08:07am |
We're standing on the shoulders of...
| 498 |
JamesTKirk Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:08:54am |
Ancient philosophy was framed by prodigies
Aristotle, Plato, and Socrates
And even though their thoughts were deemed
the aristocratic voice,
they also had a thing for little boys
Catherine the Great, so it's been said
needed large animals to be fulfilled in bed
From historic rulers
to the ancient Greeks
We're standing on the shoulders of freaks
"Isn't life pretty?" Ernest Hemingway once said
and then he put a bullet through his head
Salvador Dali's surreal paintings were godsent
You'd never know he ate his own excrement
Then there's da Vinci, for whom it required
dressing in women's underwear to be inspired
From the great romantics
to the ancient Greeks
We're standing on the shoulders of freaks
Truman Capote, needless to say
would be intoxicated 20 hours a day
From the modern authors
to the ancient Greeks
We're standing on the shoulders of freaks
We're standing on the shoulders of freaks
| 500 |
BlueCanuck Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:10:50am |
Good morning all. I wonder if the expression "you can't teach an old dog new tricks" was really referring to humans.
| 501 |
opnion Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:10:58am |
Good morning all. It is a the loss of an American icon with the passing of Walter Cronkite. Ok, got that ouit of the way. With all the tributes to him, they make it sound as if he was correct in his assessment of the Tet battle for Hue.
He was not , it was a spectacular victory for the Marines against an entrenched, numerically superior force.
In his memoirs General Giap reveals that they were defeated & ready to sue for peace, but the American media gave them new life.
| 502 |
JamesTKirk Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:11:02am |
re: #2 freetoken
Homo sapiens... Usurers!
And how does this fit in with "Islamic finance" and the total lack of progress in the Islamic world?
| 503 |
JamesTKirk Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:12:21am |
| 504 |
Sharmuta Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:14:27am |
re: #503 JamesTKirk
I know you usually go for green skinned blonds... What about us blue skinned blonds?
| 505 |
Erik The Red Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:16:49am |
re: #500 BlueCanuck
Good morning all. I wonder if the expression "you can't teach an old dog new tricks" was really referring to humans.
Morning Blue and Lizards. I am still main lining caffeine and it has not kicked in yet.
| 506 |
BlueCanuck Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:18:16am |
re: #505 Erik The Red
Ah, good morning Erik. Sleeping properly yet?
| 507 |
JamesTKirk Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:18:20am |
re: #504 Sharmuta
I know you usually go for green skinned blonds... What about us blue skinned blonds?
Smurfy.
| 509 |
JamesTKirk Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:21:13am |
re: #508 Sharmuta
I'm smurfing forward to it.
| 511 |
BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:24:07am |
| 512 |
Sharmuta Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:30:15am |
re: #510 BlueCanuck
What the smurf is smurfing on here?
I think you should mind your own smurfing business! ;p
| 513 |
BlueCanuck Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:40:47am |
re: #512 Sharmuta
Guess that's what I smurf for opening my smurfing mouth. Ah, smurf it.
/ever notice how nasty and evil a word is, if used in a "proper" way. :)
| 515 |
reloadingisnotahobby Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:44:26am |
Strange dreams all night...
That's what I get for reading Dean Koontz...Eh!
Love his quirky Humor...
Hope today finds all ya'll just dandy!
| 516 |
lincolntf Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:47:01am |
Morning all.
Turned on the TV in time to catch about 30 seconds of John McCain talking about "hate crimes" legislation being snuck into a defense bill. Obama and his worshippers sure aren't wasting any time when it comes to criminalizing thoughts.
| 517 |
haakondahl Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:47:34am |
PROCOL HARUM -- Something Following Me
(Brooker / Reid)
While standing at the junction on 42nd Street
I idly kick a pebble lying near my feet
I hear a weird noise, take a look up and down
The cause of the commotion is right there on the ground
Imagine my surprise, thought I'd left it at home
but there's no doubt about it, it's my own tombstone
I went into a shop, and bought a loaf of bread
I sank my teeth into it, thought I'd bust my head
I dashed to the dentist, said, 'I've got an awful pain!'
The man looks in my mouth and screams, 'This boy is insane!'
Imagine my surprise, thought I'd left it at home
but there's a lump in my mouth of my own tombstone
I went to see a movie, got the only empty seat
I tried to stretch out in it, something blocking my feet
Finally the lights came up, and I could clearly see
a slab of engraved marble, just staring up at me
Imagine my surprise, thought I'd left it at home
but there's no doubt I'm sitting on my own tombstone
| 518 |
wahabicorridor Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:48:59am |
re: #516 lincolntf
Morning all.
Turned on the TV in time to catch about 30 seconds of John McCain talking about "hate crimes" legislation being snuck into a defense bill. Obama and his worshippers sure aren't wasting any time when it comes to criminalizing thoughts.
Did you catch the part about it not even going thru the Judicial committee? They thought they could just sneak it in there.
| 521 |
lincolntf Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:50:52am |
re: #518 wahabicorridor
That must have been what McCain was talking about when he called it an "abuse of power". I'm going to go find a link to the actual bill, but I'm feeling too lazy to do it yet.
| 522 |
scottishbuzzsaw Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:53:06am |
| 523 |
wahabicorridor Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:54:03am |
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
*snort*
Summer cold has broken the 1897 temperature record in Gore's home state Tennessee. Nashville dropped to 59 degrees early Monday and Knoxville bottomed out at 60 degrees - both tying records for the date. Nashville's high temperature on Sunday was 77 degrees, a record low for a high temperature on July 19. The previous record was 79 degrees set in 1897.
| 524 |
KenJen Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:56:13am |
re: #516 lincolntf
Morning all.
Turned on the TV in time to catch about 30 seconds of John McCain talking about "hate crimes" legislation being snuck into a defense bill. Obama and his worshippers sure aren't wasting any time when it comes to criminalizing thoughts.
I wonder if Obama is forming a Thought Police Squad? Do we have a hate crime czar yet?
| 525 |
lincolntf Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:57:28am |
re: #523 wahabicorridor
Obviously Mother Nature is skewing the data to make Al Gore look bad.
Besides, we all know that actual temperatures don't matter when discussing the climate. The models are right, the weather is wrong.
| 526 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, Jul 21, 2009 5:57:44am |
re: #524 KenJen
I wonder if Obama is forming a Thought Police Squad? Do we have a hate crime czar yet?
Cynthia McKinney?
| 527 |
lincolntf Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:00:01am |
re: #524 KenJen
I think Eric Holder is the de facto Thought Crime Czar.
Black Panthers intimidating voters at polling places are specifically exempt of course, but someone has to keep an eye on those nasty veterans.
| 528 |
wahabicorridor Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:03:21am |
re: #525 lincolntf
The models are right, the weather is wrong.
Which is why Hillary went to India to apologize for the weather.
| 529 |
unreconstructed rebel Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:04:50am |
re: #523 wahabicorridor
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
*snort*
We have had to run the air-conditioning but thrice (like for a day) this summer. I do not remember ever sleeping under a blanket in central Virginia in July.
I guess if it weren't for all this man-made warming, we would be freezing to death.
| 530 |
realwest Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:06:08am |
Good morning y'all - from a cool (66 degrees, going up to 84 degrees) rainy and breezy Charlotte!
How is everyone doing this morning?
| 531 |
scottishbuzzsaw Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:07:11am |
re: #530 realwest
Good morning y'all - from a cool (66 degrees, going up to 84 degrees) rainy and breezy Charlotte!
How is everyone doing this morning?
Good morning, {real}.
| 532 |
wahabicorridor Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:07:25am |
Tony Blankley has a good one in today's Wash. Times
So to provide comprehensive health care reform suggests that defects and errors in our current limited health care system will be improved and corrected with complete health care services for all. What could be wrong with having new, improved, complete stuff for all? After all, for generations we have heard on television similar words: "Improved Tiger Flakes provides complete calcium and vitamin needs for your children's health."
But sometimes, partially hidden meanings in the persuasive sounding words may be the unwelcome truths that the advocates don't want the public to think about.
Because, when you think about it, it also could be said of America that we do not have a "comprehensive food provision system," or a "comprehensive clothing provision system," or a "comprehensive housing system," or a "comprehensive economic planning system," or a "comprehensive job-providing system."
In fact, of course, those comprehensive systems are available only in countries that comprehensively control human lives and actions. How else can the government assure complete things if it doesn't control things completely -- or totally.
We have seen many examples in this sad world of what citizens get when their governments provide comprehensive or total goods and services. Freedom of action -- or inaction -- is possessed comprehensively by the government, while whatever the government gives the public comprehends the total that the public gets of a good or service. As between two parties, something comprehensively possessed by one is, by definition, completely not possessed by the other.
| 533 |
reloadingisnotahobby Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:08:05am |
re: #525 lincolntf
Our local radio station gives the weather report off the Internet..
Occasionally they have call in's for the Public...
I happen to know one of DJ's...
After a totally incorrect weather report , I called in and got my friend...live on the radio...no delay...
All I said was "Get a window ya moron"...
A week later I ran into him and he asked if I had called in last week...I lied! He has no clue but they talked about the
call from the " iritated listener" for a few after that!
LOL
Some day I'll own up to it!
| 534 |
realwest Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:08:28am |
re: #531 scottishbuzzsaw
Hi there {scotti!} How are you doing today? Well, I hope!
| 535 |
wahabicorridor Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:09:15am |
re: #529 unreconstructed rebel
We have had to run the air-conditioning but thrice (like for a day) this summer. I do not remember ever sleeping under a blanket in central Virginia in July.
I guess if it weren't for all this man-made warming, we would be freezing to death.
Well, we're in Northern VA and my husband likes the thermostat set to 'meatlocker'. I wear longjohns in August.
HIYA real!
| 536 |
haakondahl Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:09:24am |
re: #529 unreconstructed rebel
We have had to run the air-conditioning but thrice (like for a day) this summer. I do not remember ever sleeping under a blanket in central Virginia in July.
I guess if it weren't for all this man-made warming, we would be freezing to death.
That's the heat affecting your brain.
| 537 |
midwestgak Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:10:11am |
Democrats have now signaled their willingness to remove the card-check provision from EFCA but, as in the case of the cap-and-trade legislation, the marquee proposal is only one poison arrow in a quiver full of venom. With or without card-check, EFCA is a bare-knuckles power play by Big Labor and the Obama administration — a bill that needs killing.
The name of the legislation is straight out of Orwell, but the content is pure Kafka. The worst provision — worse, in fact, than the card-check gambit itself — would allow the National Labor Relations Board to impose contracts on businesses that cannot come to an agreement with a union. If a union enters the picture and the owners of a business are unable to negotiate a satisfactory contract, then the NLRB is empowered to impose “binding arbitration,” meaning that the government will write the contract and force the firm to abide by its terms. This amounts to extortion.
| 538 |
DaddyG Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:11:33am |
Very very cool stuff...
Apollo 11 Experiment Still Going Strong after 35 Years
...when are we going back?
| 539 |
realwest Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:11:41am |
re: #532 wahabicorridor
Hey good morning {wahabi} Great comment/link! Oh and I read about the cold(er) weather up your way and want you to know that Charlotte North Carolina set a record low of 60 degrees, on Monday morning (really early Monday morning!). Coldest temperature EVER RECORDED here!
That s.o.b. Gore is in the State, I'll bet on it!
| 540 |
scottishbuzzsaw Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:12:07am |
re: #534 realwest
Hi there {scotti!} How are you doing today? Well, I hope!
Hanging in there, hon...the project my husband's been working on finishes up soon so he's started the process of job hunting and I need to start packing up us again. Neither the defense aviation or aerospace industries are in the best shape, but we're keeping our fingers crossed.
How are you doing today?
| 541 |
DaddyG Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:12:54am |
re: #539 realwest
Hey good morning {wahabi} Great comment/link! Oh and I read about the cold(er) weather up your way and want you to know that Charlotte North Carolina set a record low of 60 degrees, on Monday morning (really early Monday morning!). Coldest temperature EVER RECORDED here!
That s.o.b. Gore is in the State, I'll bet on it!
Manbearpig sightings.
| 542 |
legalpad Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:13:42am |
re: #530 realwest
Good morning y'all - from a cool (66 degrees, going up to 84 degrees) rainy and breezy Charlotte!
How is everyone doing this morning?
Morning Real, everybody. Just lurking with coffee.
| 543 |
Nevergiveup Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:14:36am |
re: #538 DaddyG
Very very cool stuff...
Apollo 11 Experiment Still Going Strong after 35 Years
...when are we going back?
When are we going to elect a Republican again?
| 544 |
Walter L. Newton Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:14:54am |
re: #537 midwestgak
Democrats have now signaled their willingness to remove the card-check provision from EFCA but, as in the case of the cap-and-trade legislation, the marquee proposal is only one poison arrow in a quiver full of venom. With or without card-check, EFCA is a bare-knuckles power play by Big Labor and the Obama administration — a bill that needs killing.
The name of the legislation is straight out of Orwell, but the content is pure Kafka. The worst provision — worse, in fact, than the card-check gambit itself — would allow the National Labor Relations Board to impose contracts on businesses that cannot come to an agreement with a union. If a union enters the picture and the owners of a business are unable to negotiate a satisfactory contract, then the NLRB is empowered to impose “binding arbitration,” meaning that the government will write the contract and force the firm to abide by its terms. This amounts to extortion.
Ok, I don't have the details, but, I heard our local conservative talk show host going over this yesterday, and I know this much, he was going through the detail, and the are NEW provisions in this that basically gives them what they want, new ideas, new names, same old shit.
So, a closer look at this may be in order. But, I'm sorry, currently I have no links or more details.
| 545 |
DaddyG Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:14:59am |
Its a beautiful sunny day in Georgia. Time to update all of my reports for Fiscal Year 2010. Spreadsheetapalooza! (Where is Dianna when I need her?)
| 546 |
wahabicorridor Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:16:39am |
re: #539 realwest
It went to down 40-something overnight a week or so ago. I think Tipper still owns the house she inherited from her mom in Arlington - that explains it.
| 547 |
midwestgak Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:16:52am |
re: #530 realwest
Morning real. Hope you and yours are doing well today.
| 548 |
realwest Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:17:22am |
OH, and on F&F today they had John McCain on bitching and moaning about how the Leftists have snuck a hate crime law into a defense portion of the budget!
He was livid and frankly if he'd been that outraged at all the bs candidate Obama was slinging throughout the campaign, we might not have won the Presidency, but we wouldn't have lost some of the Congressional seats that we did. WOW, was McCain PISSED OFF.Sorry,that's all I remember cause F&F then had Bobby Jindahl on and I hit the mute button. Anyone else hear McCain this morning?!
| 549 |
wahabicorridor Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:17:35am |
re: #537 midwestgak
Just you wait. If these people have their way they'll be forcing businesses to unionize
(think WalMart)
| 550 |
DaddyG Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:17:52am |
Idolitarians
On the run
The Lizards armys
Having fun
MYANMAR DEPILATORY
| 551 |
Charpete67 Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:18:46am |
re: #532 wahabicorridor
I wonder if there are any polls of BHO voters that shows some regret in their vote. I find it hard to believe this is the "change" they were looking for.
| 552 |
Nevergiveup Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:18:57am |
re: #548 realwest
OH, and on F&F today they had John McCain on bitching and moaning about how the Leftists have snuck a hate crime law into a defense portion of the budget!
He was livid and frankly if he'd been that outraged at all the bs candidate Obama was slinging throughout the campaign, we might not have won the Presidency, but we wouldn't have lost some of the Congressional seats that we did. WOW, was McCain PISSED OFF.Sorry,that's all I remember cause F&F then had Bobby Jindahl on and I hit the mute button. Anyone else hear McCain this morning?!
Yeah i did, but your right---to little to late.
| 553 |
realwest Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:19:13am |
re: #540 scottishbuzzsaw
Damn, you're right - this isn't the best of times to be looking for a job in aerospace, but I have faith in you and your hubby - he'll find something and something good, too.
Where are y'all located now and where is it he's looking to find work?
| 554 |
legalpad Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:19:26am |
re: #538 DaddyG
Very very cool stuff...
Apollo 11 Experiment Still Going Strong after 35 Years
...when are we going back?
As soon as the kleptocracies are overthrown.
| 555 |
wahabicorridor Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:19:37am |
re: #548 realwest
Anyone else hear McCain this morning?!
Yeah, we talked a bit about it upthread. I think Frank Gaffney was on F&F yesterday talking about too, from a different perspective.
And apparently Obama is trying to push that F-22 program which apparently nobody wants except Lockheed.
| 556 |
realwest Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:20:14am |
re: #542 legalpad
Hey legalpad - THAT'S your problem right there! You're supposed to DRINK the coffee, not linger with it!
/
| 558 |
pingjockey Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:20:32am |
Good mornin' folks. Have no idea why I am up at 6am PDT. Habit I guess.
| 559 |
realwest Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:20:57am |
re: #543 Nevergiveup
When are we going to elect a Republican again?
2012 for POTUS, a lot in Congress in 2010.
| 560 |
legalpad Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:21:08am |
re: #556 realwest
Hey legalpad - THAT'S your problem right there! You're supposed to DRINK the coffee, not linger with it!
/
*gulp -gulp*
| 561 |
DaddyG Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:21:29am |
| 562 |
Nevergiveup Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:21:34am |
PASADENA, California — A large comet or asteroid has slammed into Jupiter, creating an impact site the size of Earth, pictures by an Australian amateur astronomer show.
[Link: www.foxnews.com...]
And nobody saw it coming? Don't look up now but...
| 563 |
lincolntf Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:22:04am |
re: #548 realwest
I heard the very end of his segment. He did sound pissed. I know he used the term "abuse of power", but I'm not sure who he was accusing of the abuse (Congress as a whole or an individual?).
| 564 |
realwest Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:22:23am |
re: #547 midwestgak
Good norning back to you {gak}! Well we're doing ok, I guess - how's about yourself?
| 565 |
scottishbuzzsaw Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:22:41am |
re: #553 realwest
Damn, you're right - this isn't the best of times to be looking for a job in aerospace, but I have faith in you and your hubby - he'll find something and something good, too.
Where are y'all located now and where is it he's looking to find work?
He tends to go back and forth between Boeing (St. Louis right now) and NASA (Huntsville)...both are financially strapped right now. He's actually interviewing with someone back in Huntsville this a.m. but a different company. Hoping!!
| 566 |
Nevergiveup Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:22:48am |
re: #555 wahabicorridor
Yeah, we talked a bit about it upthread. I think Frank Gaffney was on F&F yesterday talking about too, from a different perspective.
And apparently Obama is trying to push that F-22 program which apparently nobody wants except Lockheed.
Obama is trying to kill it not push it? And alot of people want the F-22 line to continue
| 567 |
DaddyG Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:22:55am |
re: #562 Nevergiveup Rahm Emmanuel will use the imminent threat to the solar system to push through universal health care. /
| 568 |
Sharmuta Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:22:55am |
re: #543 Nevergiveup
When are we going to elect a Republican again?
When one of them finally pulls their head out of their ass?
| 569 |
pingjockey Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:23:00am |
I wish they'd give tv talking heads lessons on military hardware. No one calls a navy ship a 'battleship' except know nothing talking head reporters.
| 570 |
Spider Mensch Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:23:17am |
regarding the pali problem..this guy gets it...
[Link: www.ynetnews.com...]
when you got them down and defenseless, nail them...Israeli leaders could possibly put the murderous hamas ways away for along time..don't give them a chance to re-arm themselves. Iran, their proxies, are busy with their own internal strife..now is the time to end hamas.
| 571 |
legalpad Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:23:34am |
| 572 |
Nevergiveup Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:24:34am |
re: #569 pingjockey
I wish they'd give tv talking heads lessons on military hardware. No one calls a navy ship a 'battleship' except know nothing talking head reporters.
Who said that?
| 573 |
KenJen Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:25:16am |
I heard a woman on the radio this morn. Didn't catch the whole thing. She was mentioning page 425 of the Health Care Bill. It says something about seniors required to have counseling every 5 years or sooner depending on their condition. Counseling on ways to basically end their life early by forgoing nutrition and antibiotics. Anyone heard about this?
| 574 |
realwest Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:25:21am |
re: #552 Nevergiveup
Good morning to you! Hey you're a dentist, right? I got a quick question for you - they did all the prep work for inplanting a permanent, porcelin crown on me two weeks ago and I gotta say it hurt like hell - and the tooth had had a root canal done a month or so before they dug down deep beneath the gum line and wrapped that string around, built up the tooth and put in a temp AND IT HURT! Is putting the permanent crown in usually as painful?!
| 576 |
DaddyG Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:25:47am |
re: #566 Nevergiveup
Obama is trying to kill it not push it? And alot of people want the F-22 line to continue
Especially those of us here in North Georgia. But we're a red state so I don't expect much patronage from the White House even for a weapons system that works.
| 577 |
badger1970 Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:26:07am |
I almost envy you all with cool temps. Five weeks near, at or above 100 is getting a might old IMHO.
| 578 |
legalpad Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:26:17am |
re: #569 pingjockey
I wish they'd give tv talking heads lessons on military hardware. No one calls a navy ship a 'battleship' except know nothing talking head reporters.
The idiots are journalists. They are supposed to do research. They are supposed to read, maybe even history.
| 579 |
pingjockey Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:26:27am |
re: #575 pingjockey
Crap, the guy on fnc right now, the co-anchor.
| 580 |
midwestgak Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:27:05am |
re: #549 wahabicorridor
Just you wait. If these people have their way they'll be forcing businesses to unionize
(think WalMart)
Here is a perfect example of private enterprise. Competition from WalMart forced these companies to merge in order to remain viable in the market place.
This happened in 2004. Before Obamule was able to handicap capitalism.
| 581 |
realwest Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:27:28am |
re: #555 wahabicorridor
Um, I think you've got your "F's" mixed up; the F-22 is THE AIR SUPERIORITY FIGHTER - best in the world. I thought Obama had stopped buying them short of the full production run to the consternation of defense types and citizens who follow this sorta thing!
Maybe the F-35 is what you were thinking of?
| 582 |
Nevergiveup Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:28:19am |
re: #574 realwest
Good morning to you! Hey you're a dentist, right? I got a quick question for you - they did all the prep work for inplanting a permanent, porcelin crown on me two weeks ago and I gotta say it hurt like hell - and the tooth had had a root canal done a month or so before they dug down deep beneath the gum line and wrapped that string around, built up the tooth and put in a temp AND IT HURT! Is putting the permanent crown in usually as painful?!
No. What they did to prepare the tooth and take the impression can be traumatic to the tissue around the tooth. That is kinda normal sometimes. As long as the temporary crown they made for you fits pretty good, the permanent crown should go in rather easily and painlessly.
| 583 |
BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:28:21am |
re: #578 legalpad
The idiots are journalists. They are supposed to do research. They are supposed to read, maybe even history.
They don't read anything except ratings, and each other. The only research they do is about the 24/7 news cycle and how to be on top for the next one. They don't look beyond that.
| 584 |
rain of lead Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:28:21am |
just a quick gorebull warming solar update
no sunspots and solar wind at a minor 344 km/s
| 585 |
wahabicorridor Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:28:46am |
re: #566 Nevergiveup
Obama is trying to kill it not push it? And alot of people want the F-22 line to continue
Well, IIRC, Ralph Peters begs to differ...
| 586 |
realwest Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:29:10am |
re: #558 pingjockey
Hi ya ping my friend - I can't imagine why you'd be up so early either!
/
Anyway, I hope y'all got my e-mail last night cause my e-mail system was all FUBAR'D to hell! Hey what was the last ship you served on, active duty?
| 587 |
lincolntf Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:30:11am |
re: #583 iceweasel
"They don't read anything except ratingspolls, and each other. The only research they do is about the 24/7 news cycle."
The Obama administration in a nutshell.
| 588 |
legalpad Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:30:20am |
re: #581 realwest
Um, I think you've got your "F's" mixed up; the F-22 is THE AIR SUPERIORITY FIGHTER - best in the world. I thought Obama had stopped buying them short of the full production run to the consternation of defense types and citizens who follow this sorta thing!
Maybe the F-35 is what you were thinking of?
| 589 |
BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:31:11am |
re: #585 wahabicorridor
Well, IIRC, Ralph Peters begs to differ...
Oy. Ralph Peters also said some really shitty things about the GI the Taliban are holding in Afghanistan. Really shitty.
| 590 |
wahabicorridor Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:31:19am |
re: #573 KenJen
I heard a woman on the radio this morn. Didn't catch the whole thing. She was mentioning page 425 of the Health Care Bill. It says something about seniors required to have counseling every 5 years or sooner depending on their condition. Counseling on ways to basically end their life early by forgoing nutrition and antibiotics. Anyone heard about this?
Probably BETSY MCCAUGHEY
One troubling provision of the House bill compels seniors to submit to a counseling session every five years (and more often if they become sick or go into a nursing home) about alternatives for end-of-life care (House bill, p. 425-430). The sessions cover highly sensitive matters such as whether to receive antibiotics and "the use of artificially administered nutrition and hydration."
Personally, I think Teddy Kennedy should go first.
| 591 |
pingjockey Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:31:41am |
re: #586 realwest
Haven't checked email yet, not quite awake.
Last ship was USS Chancellorsville CG 62. Aegis class cruiser. Named for the battle Bobby Lee won just before Gettysburg.
Guess I'm awake cause I didn't sleep for crap, today is day 1.
| 592 |
realwest Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:32:03am |
re: #562 Nevergiveup
Well we COULDA seen it if we were looking, but since Obamam didn't carry Jupiter, we're ignoring it right now.
Probably show some interest again in 2011, though!
| 593 |
Nevergiveup Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:32:17am |
re: #585 wahabicorridor
Well, IIRC, Ralph Peters begs to differ...
He is not a fan of the F-22, but he is no always correct. The same complaints he has with the F-22 were also voiced about the B-2 Stealth Bomber and it is working out pretty well. But the Fact remains Obama and Gates are trying to kill the line completely and others are trying to keep the line open and running at a very slow pace so if needed it could be up and running again fast if the need calls for it. If the line is killed, that is it, and it will NEVER be started up again.
| 594 |
midwestgak Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:33:01am |
re: #564 realwest
Good norning back to you {gak}! Well we're doing ok, I guess - how's about yourself?
Rent is paid and the cats are fed. Healthy too.
| 595 |
realwest Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:33:44am |
re: #565 scottishbuzzsaw
Well if it helps at all, I'm hoping with you and praying for you.
And hey, if that one job doesn't pan out, I hear you can make really good money selling ham to the gubmint!
| 596 |
wahabicorridor Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:34:06am |
re: #588 legalpad
Thank you, I stand corrected on Obama's position.
| 597 |
pingjockey Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:34:35am |
IMPERIALIST YANKEE HANDS OFF JUPITER!
RUNNING DOG CAPITALIST LACKEYS KEEP OUT!
FREE MARS!
MARS FOR MARTIANS!
| 598 |
rain of lead Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:34:36am |
ohh,ohh,ohh
I love this oneSolar activity on the sun remains non existent for the most part and should remain this way. There is no sunspots on the face of the sun.
SOHO EIT (Latest)
| 599 |
wahabicorridor Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:34:45am |
re: #589 iceweasel
Oy. Ralph Peters also said some really shitty things about the GI the Taliban are holding in Afghanistan. Really shitty.
He did? Can you recount it?
| 600 |
KenJen Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:35:12am |
re: #590 wahabicorridor
That's her. Thanks. Where the hell is AARP on this?
| 601 |
realwest Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:35:26am |
re: #568 Sharmuta
You mean the way the Leftist party pulled it's head out of it's ass and nominated an unknown - Barrack Hussein Obama and old warhorse Joe "Plugs" Biden in 2008?
| 602 |
BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:35:38am |
re: #587 lincolntf
"They don't read anything except
ratingspolls,White House briefings. and each other. The only research they do is about the 24/7 news cycle."The press under the Bush and now the Obama administration in a nutshell.
:) Fixed for bipartisanship, and accuracy.
| 603 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:35:48am |
Good Morning Lizards! I have no idea what the weather is like in Southern Indiana because I just woke-up from a nice long sleep in my hotel room.
How's the ham.
How are you-all this morning and what are we talking about?
| 604 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:37:04am |
re: #597 pingjockey
IMPERIALIST YANKEE HANDS OFF JUPITER!
RUNNING DOG CAPITALIST LACKEYS KEEP OUT!
FREE MARS!
MARS FOR MARTIANS!
Pinko's for Pluto?
| 605 |
wahabicorridor Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:37:10am |
re: #593 Nevergiveup
He is not a fan of the F-22, but he is no always correct. The same complaints he has with the F-22 were also voiced about the B-2 Stealth Bomber and it is working out pretty well. But the Fact remains Obama and Gates are trying to kill the line completely and others are trying to keep the line open and running at a very slow pace so if needed it could be up and running again fast if the need calls for it. If the line is killed, that is it, and it will NEVER be started up again.
Far be it from me to have an opinion either way - I'm definitely not qualified AT ALL in this area. But if you would like to educate me a bit, what ARE the concerns about the F-22?
| 606 |
scottishbuzzsaw Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:37:28am |
re: #595 realwest
Well if it helps at all, I'm hoping with you and praying for you.
Thank you.
Time to start organizing and packing. Take care of yourself, real.
| 607 |
DaddyG Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:37:50am |
The government cheese and government ham concessions are taken. Your only hope is to get in on the ground floor of the government rye bread contract.
| 608 |
midwestgak Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:37:52am |
re: #577 badger1970
I almost envy you all with cool temps. Five weeks near, at or above 100 is getting a might old IMHO.
Believe me when I say that I am greatful for the low temps. Used the air conditioner only once this season. Humidity has been low too.
Hope you get some relief soon.
| 609 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:38:00am |
| 610 |
lincolntf Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:38:12am |
re: #602 iceweasel
Yeah, Bush sure had the press wrapped around his little finger. All that fawning adoration was hard to take.
| 611 |
wahabicorridor Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:38:28am |
re: #600 KenJen
That's her. Thanks. Where the hell is AARP on this?
HA! They support the bill - obviously they haven't read it either. My guess is that they thought they could sell some AARP-donut-hole insurance out of it.
| 612 |
pingjockey Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:39:01am |
re: #604 ggt
Heh. Someone said the one didn't carry Jupiter but would be concerned about the outer solar sysytem in 2011. Wanted to start protesting now!
| 613 |
Sharmuta Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:39:29am |
re: #601 realwest
I don't care what the left does or doesn't do with their party. I'm interested in my party retaining my support. This means, for me, they need to return to some Newt-onomics. They need to return to some Goldwater principles. If they want to keep going off course, I'm not going to stick around.
| 615 |
BlueCanuck Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:39:38am |
re: #603 ggt
Pre-sliced ham is still expensive. Out of curiosity I checked it out up here in canada. Cheapest I saw it was $1.38/100g. Remember there's 454g in a pound so it ain't cheap.
| 616 |
BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:40:24am |
re: #599 wahabicorridor
He did? Can you recount it?
Link and vid here.
[Link: thinkprogress.org...]
Fox News Guest Ralph Peters Suggests Taliban Should Kill U.S. Soldier If He Deserted
On Fox News yesterday, guest Ralph Peters, a retired Army Lt. Col., urged against leaping to conclusions. “I was to stress first of all that we must wait until all of the facts are in until we make a final judgment,” Peters said, but quickly added, “He is an apparent deserter,” “he is collaborating with the enemy,” and “we know that this private is a liar.” Peters then suggested that if Bergdahl is a deserter, the Taliban should kill him:
I want to be clear. If, when the facts are in, we find out that through some convoluted chain of events, he really was captured by the Taliban, I’m with him. But, if he walked away from his post and his buddies in wartime, I don’t care how hard it sounds, as far as I’m concerned, the Taliban can save us a lot of legal hassles and legal bills.
| 617 |
MrSilverDragon Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:40:39am |
Good morning, folks!
Thought for the day: If you're asking someone for money (ie: panhandler, homless, etc.) wouldn't you think that it's not in your best interest to yell obscenities, or say something along the lines of "you're gonna go to Hell for not taking care of me by giving me money to eat!"?
Personally, I consider that to be a bit of a turn off when it comes to helping my fellow man...
Life is weird.
| 618 |
wahabicorridor Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:40:41am |
re: #598 rain of lead
ohh,ohh,ohh
I love this oneSolar activity on the sun remains non existent for the most part and should remain this way. There is no sunspots on the face of the sun.
SOHO EIT (Latest)
Front page of today's NYT Science section too.
How can they predict that it 'should remain this way?
| 619 |
pingjockey Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:40:47am |
re: #613 Sharmuta
The leadership definetly seems to be lost in a heavy fog.
| 620 |
realwest Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:40:55am |
re: #582 Nevergiveup
Ah and whew! Thanks!
Um, one more question - they are talking about putting a permanent crown in on a tooth which has never had a root canal and I can't imagine how painful that would be without about a gallon or two of novacaine!
But why put in a perm crown over a tooth (which does have a temp crown) where the nerves are still ok?! IS there a legitimate reason or is my dentist just trying to pay for the triplets his wife just had?!?
LOL! Seriously though, that would have to hurt like hell = putting in a permanent crown where there's never been a root canal, wouldn't it?!
Don't worry, I'll give you lots of free legal advise anytime you need it!
| 621 |
BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:41:00am |
| 622 |
BlueCanuck Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:42:12am |
re: #612 pingjockey
Heh. Someone said the one didn't carry Jupiter but would be concerned about the outer solar sysytem in 2011. Wanted to start protesting now!
As long as we start protesting about polluting space with nuclear reactors. Because, you know, it's virgin unspoiled territory...
///
| 623 |
BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:42:23am |
re: #610 lincolntf
Yeah, Bush sure had the press wrapped around his little finger. All that fawning adoration was hard to take.
The press loved him until 2005 or so. This has been covered.
(check out what chris matthews was saying about Bush in 2005. He loooved him.)
| 624 |
Nevergiveup Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:42:33am |
re: #605 wahabicorridor
Far be it from me to have an opinion either way - I'm definitely not qualified AT ALL in this area. But if you would like to educate me a bit, what ARE the concerns about the F-22?
It's cost, the maintenance required to keep it in tip top flight shape, and some of the quarks that always go with a new weapons system ( weapons systems that don't work as advertised as of yet ). I am no expert either, but the F-22 has alot of support both in and out of the Services. Peters only represents one side of the equation.
| 625 |
Erik The Red Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:42:43am |
re: #613 Sharmuta
I don't care what the left does or doesn't do with their party. I'm interested in my party retaining my support. This means, for me, they need to return to some Newt-onomics. They need to return to some Goldwater principles. If they want to keep going off course, I'm not going to stick around.
Can't agree more with this statement Sharm. My problem or dilemma is where to go to if I want to stay involved in the direction I would like to see the USA go.
| 626 |
realwest Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:42:51am |
re: #585 wahabicorridor
Well Colonel Peters can kiss my butt! Thibipt!
Seriously, the F-22 is THE BEST FIGHTER IN THE WORLD.
Why the hell would an old fart like Peters want to cancel it?
| 627 |
pingjockey Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:43:25am |
re: #622 BlueCanuck
Heh. Frakkin' idjits. It is the perfect place for a reactor.
| 628 |
wahabicorridor Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:43:27am |
| 629 |
Sharmuta Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:43:29am |
re: #625 Erik The Red
Can't agree more with this statement Sharm. My problem or dilemma is where to go to if I want to stay involved in the direction I would like to see the USA go.
Could I interest you in a party dedicated to personal liberty and fiscal restraint?
| 631 |
turn Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:43:42am |
Good morning my fine lizard friends. That Doyle quote reminded me of the singularity. On the rare chance that somebody here isn't familiar with this here is a wiki link to get you started, oh and read Kurzweil's book if you find the time. I'm a firm believer that AI and molecular nanotechnology will happen, if not within my lifetime, certainly within the boy's lifetime.
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]
| 632 |
NJDhockeyfan Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:43:51am |
Good morning!
It's sunny and in the 60s here in Virginia. Where did the Gorebal warming go?
| 633 |
DaddyG Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:44:09am |
re: #617 MrSilverDragon I remember a particular panhandler in Chicago who was very abusive if you handed him less than $5. On the other hand I've scraped less than .50 out of my pocket and received great praises for the donation. Its pretty easy to tell who really needs help based on their reaction to what you have to give.
| 634 |
legalpad Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:44:24am |
re: #629 Sharmuta
Could I interest you in a party dedicated to personal liberty and fiscal restraint?
You can interest most Lizards.
| 635 |
scottishbuzzsaw Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:44:36am |
| 637 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:45:01am |
Nevergiveup is a Dentist?
So, I have a question.
How do Dentists decide within themselves who is a good Dentist, a professional with which one would want to be associated, and a bad Dentist.
From the outside, I have no clue and have been screwed.
| 638 |
Erik The Red Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:45:18am |
re: #629 Sharmuta
Could I interest you in a party dedicated to personal liberty and fiscal restraint?
Hell yes. But I don't think that party exists(anymore)
| 639 |
wahabicorridor Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:45:47am |
re: #624 Nevergiveup
Ah, got it. Dad was a pilot in WW II (B 26). He said there are always iterations in these things.
| 641 |
lincolntf Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:46:25am |
re: #616 iceweasel
Don't know if you're a Vet, but I am and I completely understand the point Peters makes. He places his remarks in context multiple times (the parts that you didn't bold, not surprisingly) and states what every soldier feels/knows. Deserters are lower than whale shit and get Americans killed. They deserve nothing but a stout rope and a blindfold.
| 642 |
Sharmuta Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:46:37am |
re: #634 legalpad
You can interest most Lizards.
Are you sure? We're running on a platform of marijuana decriminalization and the balanced budget amendment.
| 643 |
Nevergiveup Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:46:42am |
re: #620 realwest
Ah and whew! Thanks!
Um, one more question - they are talking about putting a permanent crown in on a tooth which has never had a root canal and I can't imagine how painful that would be without about a gallon or two of novacaine!
But why put in a perm crown over a tooth (which does have a temp crown) where the nerves are still ok?! IS there a legitimate reason or is my dentist just trying to pay for the triplets his wife just had?!?
LOL! Seriously though, that would have to hurt like hell = putting in a permanent crown where there's never been a root canal, wouldn't it?!
Don't worry, I'll give you lots of free legal advise anytime you need it!
No we put crowns on teeth that have not had Root Canal all the time. As long as the tooth is numbed up it should be fine. And as you get older ( me to ) the nerves recede further from the surface and as long as the tooth does not have a deep Restoration or decay, you should be OK. Having said that, anytime you take a drill to a vital tooth it might react poorly and subsequently require a Root Canal.
| 644 |
Charpete67 Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:47:08am |
re: #636 rightside
didn'tcha know? gorebull warming is causing these cooler temperatures.
//
...it's now "climate change"...they win if it goes up or down...
| 645 |
Mad Al-Jaffee Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:47:13am |
re: #621 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey
That's a Goofy thing to say.
I was just thinking the same thing. Small world.
| 647 |
lincolntf Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:47:36am |
re: #623 iceweasel
Yeah, 2000 was a huge celebration of the "selected, not elected" President. They loved him so much they tried to have his election overturned before he even got to D.C.
| 648 |
opnion Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:47:43am |
re: #573 KenJen
I heard a woman on the radio this morn. Didn't catch the whole thing. She was mentioning page 425 of the Health Care Bill. It says something about seniors required to have counseling every 5 years or sooner depending on their condition. Counseling on ways to basically end their life early by forgoing nutrition and antibiotics. Anyone heard about this?
There is a quote from Obama on Laura Ingraham dealing witrh this.
He talks about the last year of life & recommends counseling & Hospice rather than treatment.
This is an ethical medical issue & apparently BHO has made his decision.
| 649 |
Kenneth Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:47:43am |
It's the graph of something very frightening: the incredible growth in the money supply over the past year or so.
| 650 |
Sharmuta Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:48:04am |
re: #646 pingjockey
What party is this Sharm?
The Joint Venture Party. I was thinking of forming it.
| 651 |
BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:48:18am |
re: #628 wahabicorridor
Thanks ice...
(altho why would he desert? where's he gonna go?)
i know! It makes no sense!
There's no reason for Peters to be saying this guy 'might' be a deserter. And even if he was, he's a US soldier and I want him back safe.
If he did anything wrong that's for the US to decide. The US military is quite capable of handing out justice on its own to its own ranks. It doesn't need 'help' from the Taliban, and I don't support the Taliban killing any US soldiers. (or anyone) Ever.
I'm really shocked by Peters' statement. Maybe the guy is right about other things but this really upset me.
| 652 |
realwest Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:48:26am |
re: #588 legalpad
Well sure, let's substitue the best AIR SUPERIORITY fighter in the world with the F-35 Tactcial Joint strike Fighter-Bomber! A plane that was designed and spec'd out mostly by committee and a committee of Europeans at that - the F-22 knocks down the F-35 in EVERY SINGLE Simuation they've run, but hey, three brances of the military can all get shot down in it, whereas the F-22 only benefits the Air Force and gives the US Air Superiority anywhere we want it!
| 653 |
MrSilverDragon Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:48:30am |
re: #642 Sharmuta
Are you sure? We're running on a platform of marijuana decriminalization and the balanced budget amendment.
That sounds like a win/I-forgot-what-we-were-talking-about situation to me.
| 655 |
Fluffy Bunny Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:48:40am |
Thanks to help from several Lizards, the retirement gift to our doctor was right on the mark. We went with the Clan Macallan scotch, which is one of his top five. Thanks again for the help.
Good morning all!
| 657 |
legalpad Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:48:56am |
re: #642 Sharmuta
Are you sure? We're running on a platform of marijuana decriminalization and the balanced budget amendment.
Well, I don't know. We can take a poll. Somebody's against decriminalization? Maybe I'm not here enough.
| 658 |
turn Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:49:07am |
re: #620 realwest
Good morning buddy, hope you're feeling well. Speaking about teeth, my niece knocked out two of her front teeth in a rafting incident on Sunday. Yeah, bro had to fork out $3200 to get them repaired. Good news is they look like the original teeth. Ouch! Poor thing had to ride in a river rat bus back upstream to fetch her car, bleeding all over the place and crying her eyes out.
| 659 |
Erik The Red Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:49:07am |
re: #642 Sharmuta
Are you sure? We're running on a platform of marijuana decriminalization and the balanced budget amendment.
Point us in the direction and we can follow if we want to.
| 660 |
wahabicorridor Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:49:17am |
re: #632 NJDhockeyfan
Good morning!
It's sunny and in the 60s here in Virginia. Where did the Gorebal warming go?
Summer cold has broken the 1897 temperature record in Gore's home state Tennessee. Nashville dropped to 59 degrees early Monday and Knoxville bottomed out at 60 degrees - both tying records for the date. Nashville's high temperature on Sunday was 77 degrees, a record low for a high temperature on July 19. The previous record was 79 degrees set in 1897.
Thanks for an excuse to repost!
| 662 |
Mad Al-Jaffee Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:49:48am |
| 663 |
Erik The Red Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:50:05am |
re: #650 Sharmuta
The Joint Venture Party. I was thinking of forming it.
ROTHLMAO. Pass it around Sharm stop hogging it.
| 664 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:50:12am |
re: #637 ggt
Nevergiveup is a Dentist?
So, I have a question.
How do Dentists decide within themselves who is a good Dentist, a professional with which one would want to be associated, and a bad Dentist.
From the outside, I have no clue and have been screwed.
And if 9 out of 10 dentist approve Trident gum, who the hell does the 10th dentist think he is?
| 665 |
turn Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:50:13am |
re: #621 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey
That's a Goofy thing to say.
There you go with those daffy puns bdvm.
| 666 |
NJDhockeyfan Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:50:22am |
Poll: Public losing trust in President Obama
Is anyone surprised?
| 667 |
scottishbuzzsaw Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:50:35am |
re: #640 turn
Good luck with the hubby's job scotti.
Thanks, {turn}...we're used to the nomadic life as he works projects, not companies. Just not the best of times.
Oh, and as realwest said, the F-22 is THE BEST FIGHTER IN THE WORLD! (Thank you, Husband!)
| 668 |
wahabicorridor Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:50:38am |
re: #648 opnion
There is a quote from Obama on Laura Ingraham dealing witrh this.
He talks about the last year of life & recommends counseling & Hospice rather than treatment.
This is an ethical medical issue & apparently BHO has made his decision.
TEDDY KENNEDY FIRST!
| 669 |
rightside Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:50:42am |
re: #644 Charpete67
a turd by any other name would still smell like shit.
-apologies to Mr. Shakespeare.
| 670 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:50:43am |
| 672 |
DaddyG Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:50:56am |
re: #648 opnion
There is a quote from Obama on Laura Ingraham dealing witrh this.
He talks about the last year of life & recommends counseling & Hospice rather than treatment.
This is an ethical medical issue & apparently BHO has made his decision.
Forgoing treatment can really move up the date on "last year of life". This is another decision I'd rather not have someone in Washington DC making for me and my loved ones.
| 673 |
pingjockey Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:51:16am |
re: #661 Sharmuta
Branding is everything in selling a product, so I've been told anyway. I actually have no issues with decriminalizing pot.
| 674 |
Sharmuta Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:51:34am |
re: #663 Erik The Red
ROTHLMAO. Pass it around Sharm stop hogging it.
It started as a joke, but the more I think on it, the more I actually like it. A party that doesn't pay lip service to personal liberty or fiscal responsibility- but actually means it.
| 675 |
MrSilverDragon Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:51:38am |
re: #666 NJDhockeyfan
Poll: Public losing trust in President Obama
Is anyone surprised?
The only surprise (to me) was that it took this long into the presidency.
| 676 |
BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:51:41am |
re: #641 lincolntf
Don't know if you're a Vet, but I am and I completely understand the point Peters makes. He places his remarks in context multiple times (the parts that you didn't bold, not surprisingly) and states what every soldier feels/knows. Deserters are lower than whale shit and get Americans killed. They deserve nothing but a stout rope and a blindfold.
But the US military is more than capable of handling any deserters.. We don't need the Taliban to do it for us, and I really don't want the Taliban killing any of our troops.
Deserters may be lower than whale shit, but that doesn't mean they should be killed by people lower than that.
Subject them to and try them by our own laws. Because we're not barbarians.
| 677 |
realwest Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:51:43am |
re: #590 wahabicorridor
Ted Kennedy first? Hell - best way I know of to kill off Obamacare is to require that ALL congresscritters have to use it with no preferential treatment AT ALL.
S.O.B.'s have the best health care (including dental and eye care) in the WORLD for free - as a "perk" for taking on the arduous task of not reading legistlation before they vote on it - and they want to tell US how to have better healthcare, they just won't be "participants" in that plan?!?
| 678 |
Nevergiveup Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:52:00am |
re: #637 ggt
Nevergiveup is a Dentist?
So, I have a question.
How do Dentists decide within themselves who is a good Dentist, a professional with which one would want to be associated, and a bad Dentist.
From the outside, I have no clue and have been screwed.
Good question and there is no easy answer. Most of us don't really see our colleagues work. We can only surmise from things they might say? The specialists might actually have a better idea about General Dentists who refer to them, since they see the quality of the work. I take alot of pride that most of the specialists I refer to send their families to me for treatment. I mean they could go to any Dentist and get it for free. And some Dentists are so bad, we all know. We do gossip some.
| 679 |
badger1970 Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:52:10am |
re: #608 midwestgak
I'll reciprocate when winter hits. ;)
| 680 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:52:16am |
re: #656 midwestgak
Hi ggt. Have you ordered room service yet?
Unfortunately not, small town, not that kind of hotel. Feel my pain. Forced-family-fun trip.
| 681 |
BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:52:30am |
re: #652 realwest
Well sure, let's substitue the best AIR SUPERIORITY fighter in the world with the F-35 Tactcial Joint strike Fighter-Bomber! A plane that was designed and spec'd out mostly by committee and a committee of Europeans at that - the F-22 knocks down the F-35 in EVERY SINGLE Simuation they've run, but hey, three brances of the military can all get shot down in it, whereas the F-22 only benefits the Air Force and gives the US Air Superiority anywhere we want it!
The F-22 can't operate from aircraft carriers, or smaller airstrips as the F-35 can. Remember, the F-22 is designed to replace the F-15, while the F-35 is designed to replace the F-16, F/A-18 & Harrier.
| 682 |
pingjockey Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:52:53am |
re: #677 realwest
Damn straight. Better yet, let them deal with the VA!
| 684 |
Walter L. Newton Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:53:24am |
re: #651 iceweasel
i know! It makes no sense!
...And even if he was, he's a US soldier and I want him back safe...
On this point alone, tell me, you would like him back safely. Let's go with that. Now, if it is discovered that he did actually desert, when he's safely back here, what do you suggest the military should do?
| 686 |
midwestgak Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:54:17am |
re: #617 MrSilverDragon
Good morning, folks!
Life is weird.
Good morning Mr. I was approched by a guy who greeted me nicely and asked for some money. Mind you, he smelled of beer. I didn't give him money. As I continued to walk by he said, "F***in bitch!
| 687 |
Sharmuta Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:54:22am |
re: #673 pingjockey
I figure there are people on both the left and the right that would agree with both issues and those on either the left or the right that don't agree are not being honest when they say they do support individual rights and fiscal conservatism. Put up or shut up, I say- and these are two points that cut to the heart of the matter, imo.
| 688 |
legalpad Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:54:29am |
re: #677 realwest
Ted Kennedy first? Hell - best way I know of to kill off Obamacare is to require that ALL congresscritters have to use it with no preferential treatment AT ALL.
S.O.B.'s have the best health care (including dental and eye care) in the WORLD for free - as a "perk" for taking on the arduous task of not reading legistlation before they vote on it - and they want to tell US how to have better healthcare, they just won't be "participants" in that plan?!?
Yes - and their salary should be defined as the median income.
| 689 |
Nevergiveup Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:54:34am |
re: #664 Cannadian Club Akbar
And if 9 out of 10 dentist approve Trident gum, who the hell does the 10th dentist think he is?
On someone else's payroll?
| 690 |
Mad Al-Jaffee Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:54:34am |
re: #677 realwest
I agree, and the salaries for anyone in Congress should be no higher than $80,000/year.
| 691 |
Charpete67 Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:54:42am |
re: #684 Walter L. Newton
On this point alone, tell me, you would like him back safely. Let's go with that. Now, if it is discovered that he did actually desert, when he's safely back here, what do you suggest the military should do?
GITMO
| 692 |
BlueCanuck Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:54:45am |
re: #652 realwest
A fighter that benefits the Air Force with air superiority? Didn't most conflicts in the 20th century prove that he who controls the air, controls the war. If they can't put anything up because we can knock it down, I don't care who flys it.
| 693 |
opnion Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:55:08am |
re: #616 iceweasel
Wow, Lt Col Peters says that if our soldier deserted the Taliban should kill him!
I usually find him rather interesting but not here. FNC should not have him back.
The goal is to rescue this troop or negotiate him back & Peters would like a snuff film with this kid staring?
| 694 |
pingjockey Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:55:36am |
re: #687 Sharmuta
That is very true. Perceptive idea! Cuts right to the point!
| 695 |
wahabicorridor Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:55:40am |
re: #677 realwest
HEH. Robert Byrd wouldn't last 2 weeks..
| 696 |
realwest Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:55:43am |
re: #591 pingjockey
Hey (((ping))) yeah, I know today is day 1, that's why I sent that e-mail to you - I'm praying for you every day and night now. I just know you'll do well ping, just remember - the worst thing about Chancellorsville is that Bobby lost Gen. Jackson after the fight was over for the day.
But Gen. Lee managed to come back and fight and WIN a lot of battles!
Seriously my friend, I do wish y'all the best of luck and am praying for you.
| 697 |
turn Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:55:54am |
re: #667 scottishbuzzsaw
Thanks, {turn}...we're used to the nomadic life as he works projects, not companies. Just not the best of times.
Oh, and as realwest said, the F-22 is THE BEST FIGHTER IN THE WORLD! (Thank you, Husband!)
Oh, your hubby is an aerospace engineer? kewl Yeah, that plane is supposed to be awesome. Nothing can out maneuver it.
| 698 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:56:08am |
re: #678 Nevergiveup
Good question and there is no easy answer. Most of us don't really see our colleagues work. We can only surmise from things they might say? The specialists might actually have a better idea about General Dentists who refer to them, since they see the quality of the work. I take alot of pride that most of the specialists I refer to send their families to me for treatment. I mean they could go to any Dentist and get it for free. And some Dentists are so bad, we all know. We do gossip some.
There is a lack of dental schools, IMHO, compared to medical schools. In Illinois we have two dental colleges. One in the city and one downstate. I hate to drive all the way into the city, but I think I'll have to. At least at the university, I can hope to get a good dentist.
| 699 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:56:43am |
re: #678 Nevergiveup
Good question and there is no easy answer. Most of us don't really see our colleagues work. We can only surmise from things they might say? The specialists might actually have a better idea about General Dentists who refer to them, since they see the quality of the work. I take alot of pride that most of the specialists I refer to send their families to me for treatment. I mean they could go to any Dentist and get it for free. And some Dentists are so bad, we all know. We do gossip some.
Where are you? Chicagoland, I hope?
| 700 |
BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:56:57am |
re: #684 Walter L. Newton
On this point alone, tell me, you would like him back safely. Let's go with that. Now, if it is discovered that he did actually desert, when he's safely back here, what do you suggest the military should do?
Then he should be subjected to all the usual procedures, and usual punishments (military tribunal, courtmartial, imprisonment, etc) that the US military would apply to any in his situation-- assuming he's found guilty.
| 701 |
Sharmuta Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:57:00am |
re: #694 pingjockey
I think it's time to separate the wheat from the chaff. I think these two issues are where we could do that.
| 702 |
Charpete67 Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:57:14am |
re: #693 opnion
Wow, Lt Col Peters says that if our soldier deserted the Taliban should kill him!
I usually find him rather interesting but not here. FNC should not have him back.
The goal is to rescue this troop or negotiate him back & Peters would like a snuff film with this kid staring?
agreed...no matter what he did, we will mete out justice not some greasy ROP'er.
| 703 |
pingjockey Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:57:21am |
re: #696 realwest
Thanks. I was just filing in a little history! All of the Aegis cruisers are named for famous battles.
| 704 |
midwestgak Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:57:22am |
re: #644 Charpete67
...it's now "climate change"...they win if it goes up or down...
The weather, it's a terrible thing to waste.
| 705 |
KenJen Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:57:46am |
re: #648 opnion
There is a quote from Obama on Laura Ingraham dealing witrh this.
He talks about the last year of life & recommends counseling & Hospice rather than treatment.
This is an ethical medical issue & apparently BHO has made his decision.
I've known a person who thought they were in their last year of life. That's been 5 years ago and their still ticking. Govt. has no business in these type of decisions. This is just crazy.
| 706 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:57:50am |
re: #686 midwestgak
Good morning Mr. I was approched by a guy who greeted me nicely and asked for some money. Mind you, he smelled of beer. I didn't give him money. As I continued to walk by he said, "F***in bitch!
Saw a guy at an intersection once that held a sign that read "why lie, I need beer." I gave him 5 bucks for honesty.
| 707 |
Kenneth Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:57:51am |
Liberal Suicide March By David Brooks
The party is led by insular liberals from big cities and the coasts, who neither understand nor sympathize with moderates. They have their own cherry-picking pollsters, their own media and activist cocoon, their own plans to lavishly spend borrowed money to buy votes.
This ideological overreach won’t be any more successful than the last one. A Washington Post-ABC News poll released Monday confirms what other polls have found. Most Americans love Barack Obama personally, but support for Democratic policies is already sliding fast.
... Nancy Pelosi has lower approval ratings than Dick Cheney and far lower approval ratings than Sarah Palin. And yet Democrats have allowed her policy values to carry the day — this in an era in which independents dominate the electoral landscape.
Who’s going to stop this leftward surge? Months ago, it seemed as if Obama would lead a center-left coalition. Instead, he has deferred to the Old Bulls on Capitol Hill on issue after issue.
Machiavelli said a leader should be feared as well as loved. Obama is loved by the Democratic chairmen, but he is not feared.
You know trouble is on the way when one of the few thinking liberal pundits slams your administration.
| 708 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:58:01am |
re: #684 Walter L. Newton
On this point alone, tell me, you would like him back safely. Let's go with that. Now, if it is discovered that he did actually desert, when he's safely back here, what do you suggest the military should do?
Once a person deserts, are they technically, a US soldier? If he deserted his country, why would we want him back?
| 709 |
opnion Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:58:36am |
re: #668 wahabicorridor
TEDDY KENNEDY FIRST!
Right, & BHO certainly didn't advise his old racist grandma of the pleasures of Hospice.
| 711 |
BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:59:04am |
re: #693 opnion
Wow, Lt Col Peters says that if our soldier deserted the Taliban should kill him!
I usually find him rather interesting but not here. FNC should not have him back.
The goal is to rescue this troop or negotiate him back & Peters would like a snuff film with this kid staring?
i know. I linked Think progress but they have the Fox video and it's been all over the leftysphere. Anyone can google.
I think what he said is such a fucked up claim in so many ways...
| 712 |
Walter L. Newton Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:59:06am |
re: #700 iceweasel
Then he should be subjected to all the usual procedures, and usual punishments (military tribunal, courtmartial, imprisonment, etc) that the US military would apply to any in his situation-- assuming he's found guilty.
Including death, if applicable? (and no, I don't want the Taliban taking care of any of our justice, but I'm curious as to how serious you take desertion.)
| 713 |
realwest Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:59:10am |
re: #611 wahabicorridor
HA! They support the bill - obviously they haven't read it either. My guess is that they thought they could sell some AARP-donut-hole insurance out of it.
Yeah, well I hope they succeeded - fucking AARP is supposed to protect SENIORS' rights, not sell itself down the river (and us members too) just for a photo op with POTUS.
| 714 |
rightside Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:59:13am |
re: #690 Mad Al-Jaffee
IMO, I don't think they should be able to enrich their lives monetarily by way of sweetheart deals, legislation, etc. In fact, any investments are frozen during their service.
| 715 |
haakondahl Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:59:38am |
re: #649 Kenneth
It's the graph of something very frightening: the incredible growth in the money supply over the past year or so.
Are you linking to the Laffer Spike? (Slow connection, not jumping a lot)
| 716 |
pingjockey Tue, Jul 21, 2009 6:59:53am |
re: #701 Sharmuta
Well it's gonna definetly shake up the personal liberty pretenders!
A friend of my fathers(!) a few years ago was busted trying to supplement his Soc. Sec. He had about a 1/2 acre field growing. Got busted and got probation for like 10 years.
| 717 |
rightside Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:00:22am |
re: #703 pingjockey
Except for one of the ships I was on, USS Thomas S. Gates (CG-51)
| 718 |
Walter L. Newton Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:00:28am |
re: #708 ggt
Once a person deserts, are they technically, a US soldier? If he deserted his country, why would we want him back?
I don't know military law, but I suspect you are until you are discharged, honorably, dishonorably or dead.
| 719 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:00:36am |
re: #690 Mad Al-Jaffee
I agree, and the salaries for anyone in Congress should be no higher than $80,000/year.
Nice idea, but there is no way a person can maintain two households --one in their home state and one in D.C. on $80K a year. I don't think one can do it in D.C on less that $250K a year. I've thought about this a lot and decided I'll never be able to move to D.C. --one of my families top vacation spots.
It's a thought process that has led me to wonder how Congress critters actually afford to be Congress critters.
| 720 |
realwest Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:01:24am |
re: #613 Sharmuta
I don't care what the left does or doesn't do with their party. I'm interested in my party retaining my support. This means, for me, they need to return to some Newt-onomics. They need to return to some Goldwater principles. If they want to keep going off course, I'm not going to stick around.
And my point was that IT'S TOO DAMN EARLY TO START THROWING OUT GOP NAMES for 2012. And go ahead and leave the GOP - See how well a free thnker like you fits into the Leftist Party.
| 721 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:01:31am |
re: #710 buzzsawmonkey
I went to a dental school clinic once back when I was broke. Never again.
Ever had your hair cut at a barber college? Hair grows back; teeth don't.
The Dentists at UIC maintain a separate practice aside from the student clinic. I'd be making my appointment with the teachers.
| 723 |
pingjockey Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:02:08am |
re: #717 rightside
Well, knock me down. I really thought the whole class was all battles. Knew the Burke class were named for people.
| 724 |
BlueCanuck Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:02:29am |
re: #708 ggt
Once a person deserts, are they technically, a US soldier? If he deserted his country, why would we want him back?
Yes. Until he's tried and convicted. Then he's no longer a soldier. I don't believe the accusation. I will wait to find out what's going on.
| 725 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:02:41am |
re: #716 pingjockey
Well it's gonna definetly shake up the personal liberty pretenders!
A friend of my fathers(!) a few years ago was busted trying to supplement his Soc. Sec. He had about a 1/2 acre field growing. Got busted and got probation for like 10 years.
Was he growing pot?
| 726 |
Fluffy Bunny Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:02:54am |
re: #662 Mad Al-Jaffee
We chose a mid-range cask strength (12 YO), the liquor store employee was a big help in narrowing down the options. Who knew there were so many varieties of scotch?
| 727 |
opnion Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:02:57am |
re: #708 ggt
Once a person deserts, are they technically, a US soldier? If he deserted his country, why would we want him back?
A soldier who deserts is still a soldier, otherwise the military would have no jurisdiction to Court Martial him.
I would bet you anything that this young man would welcome a Court Martial rather than being held by those savages.
| 728 |
pingjockey Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:02:58am |
re: #718 Walter L. Newton
We own yer ass until you're discharged one way or the other!
| 729 |
haakondahl Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:03:03am |
re: #684 Walter L. Newton
On this point alone, tell me, you would like him back safely. Let's go with that. Now, if it is discovered that he did actually desert, when he's safely back here, what do you suggest the military should do?
I wouldn't suggest anything other than a rescue, until he is back. Period.
When things are worst, exercise the most faith. he needs to know that his people are coming for him. More importantly, everybody else serving needs to know that their people will come for them.
We are going to find him and rescue him. Period.
| 730 |
lincolntf Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:03:07am |
re: #676 iceweasel
If we were "more than capable" of handling it, then why is he still with the Taliban? Seems like the first step in handling it (which you seem to think would be a simple task) would be to get him back. Hasn't happened yet.
If he deserted to the Taliban completely of his own free will (that verdict is still pending, obviously) then he's just another enemy combatant to me. I don't care how he dies, just so long as he does.
| 731 |
Walter L. Newton Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:03:22am |
re: #728 pingjockey
We own yer ass until you're discharged one way or the other!
That's what I suspected.
| 734 |
Spider Mensch Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:04:09am |
re: #700 iceweasel
Then he should be subjected to all the usual procedures, and usual punishments (military tribunal, courtmartial, imprisonment, etc) that the US military would apply to any in his situation-- assuming he's found guilty.
I got to agree with iceweasel on this..UCMJ, as ping and the other vets here know, is the military law..let the military handle its problem. and for all non vets.. UCMJ is the Uniformed Code for Military Justice. though it hasn't happened since Pvt Slovak ( I think), you can still face the death penalty for desertion. But in todays world I don't think you'd see that verdict.
| 735 |
Nevergiveup Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:04:23am |
re: #698 ggt
There is a lack of dental schools, IMHO, compared to medical schools. In Illinois we have two dental colleges. One in the city and one downstate. I hate to drive all the way into the city, but I think I'll have to. At least at the university, I can hope to get a good dentist.
No in NJ. Ask around. You can find a good Dentist without having to go to a Dental School. Do you know any Specialists-like Root Canal, or Gum- Periodontists?
| 736 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:04:49am |
re: #732 pingjockey
Yup! He was 66 when he got popped.
So, he got committed a crime and wasn't really arrested for trying to supplement his SSI?
| 737 |
BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:05:02am |
re: #710 buzzsawmonkey
I went to a dental school clinic once back when I was broke. Never again.
Ever had your hair cut at a barber college? Hair grows back; teeth don't.
I went to a dental school to have my braces & the like done when I was a kid & everything worked out great. I guess it depends upon the school - U Penn is tops.
| 738 |
midwestgak Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:05:05am |
re: #710 buzzsawmonkey
I went to a dental school clinic once back when I was broke. Never again.
Ever had your hair cut at a barber college? Hair grows back; teeth don't.
Oh ya? Tell that to Mr. Sharky./
| 739 |
opnion Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:05:05am |
re: #711 iceweasel
i know. I linked Think progress but they have the Fox video and it's been all over the leftysphere. Anyone can google.
I think what he said is such a fucked up claim in so many ways...
If Peters is going to have any future at all in puditry he had better come outr with a full, sincere apology. Even then, I don't think that I would invite him back.
| 740 |
realwest Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:05:17am |
re: #643 Nevergiveup
OK, so I should be ok, but maybe not, right?! That's what my dentist said!
LOL!
Seriously, thank you very much for the kind advice!
| 741 |
BlueCanuck Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:05:29am |
re: #733 buzzsawmonkey
If a soldier gets gonorrhea, doesn't he automatically get a dishonorable discharge?
oooh, bad. But no, it's just a self inflicted wound.
| 743 |
DaddyG Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:06:13am |
re: #719 ggt
It's a thought process that has led me to wonder how Congress critters actually afford to be Congress critters.
They dump their flyover state wives and marry DC socialite heiresses.
| 744 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:06:19am |
re: #735 Nevergiveup
No in NJ. Ask around. You can find a good Dentist without having to go to a Dental School. Do you know any Specialists-like Root Canal, or Gum- Periodontists?
I've taken referrals and done the asking around thing. I have unusual "issues" and wonder if the UIC dentists might be more familiar with them as the dentists I've seen have no clue.
| 745 |
Walter L. Newton Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:06:38am |
re: #729 haakondahl
I wouldn't suggest anything other than a rescue, until he is back. Period.
When things are worst, exercise the most faith. he needs to know that his people are coming for him. More importantly, everybody else serving needs to know that their people will come for them.
We are going to find him and rescue him. Period.
First off, I didn't suggest that he did anything wrong, second, I don't want the Taliban to do anything, even if the soldier did break some military rules, laws what ever you call them, and of course, job one should be his rescue, the rescue of all our military prisoners.
But my question was what should be done with him if it is proven that he actually deserted, when he gets back. You didn't answer that.
| 746 |
KenJen Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:06:41am |
re: #741 BlueCanuck
oooh, bad. But no, it's just a self inflicted wound.
Didnt John Kerry get a Purple Heart for one of those?
| 748 |
Charpete67 Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:06:50am |
re: #707 Kenneth
we almost don't even notice he just had a conference call with the HuffPo yesterday and takes calls from "reporters" from the DailyKOS at press conferences...it's like he's in a lefty bubble and forgot the 47% of the electorate didn't vote for him...and that's not far from 51%...
| 749 |
rightside Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:07:32am |
re: #723 pingjockey
Yeah, there was the odd one thrown in there. He was SecNav way back when. And the Burkes were named after medal of honor recipients.
| 750 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:07:32am |
| 751 |
realwest Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:07:33am |
re: #647 lincolntf
Yeah, 2000 was a huge celebration of the "selected, not elected" President. They loved him so much they tried to have his election overturned before he even got to D.C.
And don't forget in 2004 they woulda had us vote for LT Kerry - just remember Rathergate, "60 Minutes" and the timing of that fraud of a show meant to swing votes Kerry's way. If not for Charles they mighta gotten away with it too. Fuck the MSM.
| 752 |
lawhawk Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:07:36am |
re: #735 Nevergiveup
NJ Monthly just released a list of the top dentists in NJ.
| 753 |
MrSilverDragon Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:07:47am |
re: #733 buzzsawmonkey
If a soldier gets gonorrhea, doesn't he automatically get a dishonorable discharge?
Certainly an uncomfortable discharge.
***No, I'm not speaking from experience.
| 754 |
BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:09:24am |
re: #712 Walter L. Newton
Including death, if applicable? (and no, I don't want the Taliban taking care of any of our justice, but I'm curious as to how serious you take desertion.)
I take desertion extremely seriously. I am not a vet, but I have family and friends who are.
The maximum penalty in the US for desertion during wartime is death, but wikipedia tells me that the last time this was applied was in 1945.
I'm anti-death penalty, btw. But I'm pro-rule of law.
It's obviously highly unlikely that this soldier, even if he deserted, would warrant death--given how seldom the DP is invoked for the US military for desertion.
Let's pretend the worst case scenario: let's pretend he did something so heinous it merited death by the US military's laws.
I'd still support the US military taking him back, even if they later try him and execute him. Because he's an American, he's a GI, and I don't want him beheaded by the Taliban. No matter what he did.
If he merits execution, he does so under American laws in the American system. The US don't need the Taliban to enforce US justice.
| 755 |
DaddyG Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:09:54am |
re: #753 MrSilverDragon
Certainly an uncomfortable discharge.
***No, I'm not speaking from experience.
Gonorrhea is a burning issue.
| 756 |
Charpete67 Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:10:19am |
| 757 |
justabill Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:10:22am |
re: #718 Walter L. Newton
I don't know military law, but I suspect you are until you are discharged, honorably, dishonorably or dead.
I believe the Marines view is a bit different. There are no ex-Marines. Once a Marine, always a Marine.
| 758 |
pingjockey Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:10:22am |
re: #736 ggt
Yep. Sorry I wasn't being clear. We all made light of the fact that he seemed to be wanting to supplement his SSI! Farming pot!
| 759 |
Walter L. Newton Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:10:45am |
re: #754 iceweasel
I take desertion extremely seriously. I am not a vet, but I have family and friends who are.
The maximum penalty in the US for desertion during wartime is death, but wikipedia tells me that the last time this was applied was in 1945.
I'm anti-death penalty, btw. But I'm pro-rule of law.
It's obviously highly unlikely that this soldier, even if he deserted, would warrant death--given how seldom the DP is invoked for the US military for desertion.
Let's pretend the worst case scenario: let's pretend he did something so heinous it merited death by the US military's laws.
I'd still support the US military taking him back, even if they later try him and execute him. Because he's an American, he's a GI, and I don't want him beheaded by the Taliban. No matter what he did.
If he merits execution, he does so under American laws in the American system. The US don't need the Taliban to enforce US justice.
Got it. And of course, I agree, I never suggested that I want the Ataliban to do anything but release him.
| 760 |
opnion Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:11:00am |
re: #733 buzzsawmonkey
If a soldier gets gonorrhea, doesn't he automatically get a dishonorable discharge?
I think that used to be true, but doubt if it still is.
Here is what mystifies me, to get off of a state side base, you have to have a Liberty card, leave papers, iorders etc.
In a war theatre it is even more strict. How diid this guy just wander off with no weapon with a few Afghan soldiers?
| 761 |
Sharmuta Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:11:20am |
re: #720 realwest
I'm not leave the GOP. They're leaving me. I have nowhere to go- I just feel that I'm not wanted by either party. Both parties are alienating the middle, and that's bad as it gives the fringes in both parties too much influence.
Additionally- I didn't mentioned any names for 2012. Just that we'd elect a republican who could pull their head out their ass. We'll see if anyone is up to the challenge.
| 762 |
haakondahl Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:11:41am |
re: #717 rightside
Except for one of the ships I was on, USS Thomas S. Gates (CG-51)
Mr. gates must have had one leg shorter than the other, judging by the way your ship handled.
| 763 |
lawhawk Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:11:49am |
re: #703 pingjockey
The naming of ships used to be so easy to remember (or at least made sense).
Battleships were states (and later on, SSBNs)
688 attack subs were cities.
Prior subs were named after fish (skipjack, etc.)
Aircraft carriers were typically named after historical ships, although that changed after JFK's death (when the USS JFK was named in his honor). The Nimitz class was named after famous admirals and later presidents of the US (Carter got a sub named after him since he was attached to that branch of the Navy).
Now, ships are named in such a way that it is to guarantee that the ships are built in the byzantine world of military procurement.
| 764 |
realwest Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:12:04am |
re: #666 NJDhockeyfan
Poll: Public losing trust in President Obama
Is anyone surprised?
I'm ASTOUNDED that 24% TRUST Nancy Pelosi! That's more than trust Congress in general!
| 765 |
BlueCanuck Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:12:14am |
re: #754 iceweasel
Good points. speaking in the army sense, He's one of our own. We deal with our own, in all ways. All come home, all efforts are made to bring them home. And if it's needed we punish our own.
| 766 |
pingjockey Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:12:20am |
re: #757 justabill
Murthafucker is an exmarine! At least according to some jarheads I know.
| 767 |
Charpete67 Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:12:49am |
re: #760 opnion
I think that used to be true, but doubt if it still is.
Here is what mystifies me, to get off of a state side base, you have to have a Liberty card, leave papers, iorders etc.
In a war theatre it is even more strict. How diid this guy just wander off with no weapon with a few Afghan soldiers?
where are the Afghan solders?...maybe that is why there are questions...do they know something about the Afghans that were with him?
| 768 |
Nevergiveup Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:13:13am |
re: #710 buzzsawmonkey
I went to a dental school clinic once back when I was broke. Never again.
Ever had your hair cut at a barber college? Hair grows back; teeth don't.
Actually the work should be OK at a Dental School. Just very slow.
| 769 |
templar Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:15:00am |
Just wanted to put my $0.02 in on the Katrina discussion. I was in Pascagula, MS just after Katrina doing disaster relief work. At our post was a woman who had come down from Vancouver, B.C. with a team to observe the disaster relief response and report back to the B.C. provincial government. Her colleagues in New Orleans said that the effort broke down at every level. Mississippi was a different story because even while FEMA was dithering and not functioning well, the state and local authorities were doing a superb job in maintaining order and coordinating the response. What annoys me to no end is the national media ignored Mississpippi, even though it got more than its fair share of being pounded by Katrina. I guess there weren't enough people of color for the media clowns to be interested in a place like Pascagula.
| 770 |
Charpete67 Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:15:10am |
re: #764 realwest
I'm ASTOUNDED that 24% TRUST Nancy Pelosi! That's more than trust Congress in general!
how is John Boehner at 15%?...he has no power and in the minority
| 771 |
haakondahl Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:15:29am |
re: #745 Walter L. Newton
First off, I didn't suggest that he did anything wrong, second, I don't want the Taliban to do anything, even if the soldier did break some military rules, laws what ever you call them, and of course, job one should be his rescue, the rescue of all our military prisoners.
But my question was what should be done with him if it is proven that he actually deserted, when he gets back. You didn't answer that.
Are you deaf? I don't talk about it until he's safe.
| 772 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:15:44am |
re: #758 pingjockey
Yep. Sorry I wasn't being clear. We all made light of the fact that he seemed to be wanting to supplement his SSI! Farming pot!
ah!
| 773 |
rightside Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:15:47am |
re: #762 haakondahl
She drove fine for me. During the shipyard strike, the management decided to complete building the boat. The bow section was attached at an angle to which it should have been.
| 774 |
Nevergiveup Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:16:27am |
re: #740 realwest
OK, so I should be ok, but maybe not, right?! That's what my dentist said!
LOL!
Seriously, thank you very much for the kind advice!
Any time, Any time
| 775 |
pingjockey Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:16:37am |
re: #769 templar
The locals there were doing a bang up job, whereas the locals in LA were fuckups and could be used to bash GWB about the federal response.
| 776 |
realwest Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:16:49am |
re: #681 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey
Hey BDVM! Uh, did y'all miss the part where I said the AF, Navy and Marine corps pilots can all get shot down while riding their designed by a European Committee F-35's by anyone with F-22's? Besides, it's up to us infantry types to make damn good and sure the F-22 has the landing strips it needs and we WILL get it for 'em cause it'll keep enemy fighters off our ass!
| 777 |
BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:16:53am |
| 779 |
lawhawk Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:17:39am |
re: #769 templar
Speaking of Katrina and the Gulf Coast, it looks like the IRS may give some relief to those folks who installed Chinese drywall only to find that they caused more headaches - literally (with mold, outgassing, etc.). Chinese drywall may qualify for the casualty loss deduction if the EPA and CPSC find that it caused unusual damage.
| 780 |
BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:17:46am |
re: #759 Walter L. Newton
Got it. And of course, I agree, I never suggested that I want the Ataliban to do anything but release him.
Oh I know Walter! I updinged you!-- I got what you were saying.
You are raising a lot of profound issues and I don't have answers for them all.
I'm personally anti-death penalty. I also think deserters are generally the lowest of the low ( i say generally because you're a 'deserter' if you're AWOL, but not every person who is AWOL is a deserter, and I think desertion during war or battle is different)
Some US civil war historian lizard here can correct me, but didn't the civil war troops routinely desert during harvest time or planting time, to help out on the family farm? They'd come back as soon as they could and everyone kind of looked the other way.
| 781 |
pingjockey Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:17:53am |
BBIAW, going to do battle with the damn irrigation pump!
| 782 |
opnion Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:17:54am |
re: #767 Charpete67
where are the Afghan solders?...maybe that is why there are questions...do they know something about the Afghans that were with him?
Good question. What does seem clear to me is that this guy did not desert to go fight for the other side.
I want him back in one piece & then there will be plenty of time to find out what happened.
| 783 |
Nevergiveup Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:18:20am |
re: #744 ggt
I've taken referrals and done the asking around thing. I have unusual "issues" and wonder if the UIC dentists might be more familiar with them as the dentists I've seen have no clue.
I know it can get confusing. The best advice I can give you is find someone that cares and isn't just doing it for the fee. Easier said than done I know.
| 784 |
redstateredneck Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:19:18am |
re: #769 templar
As a Mississippian, I thank you for your comment.
| 785 |
NJDhockeyfan Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:19:19am |
MILITANTS LOOT UN SITES IN SOMALIA
Islamic militants with alleged links to al Qaida looted two United Nations compounds in southern Somalia and said they would ban three UN agencies from operating in areas they controlled.
| 786 |
turn Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:19:40am |
re: #777 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey
Yes, it's quite a sore spot for some people.
Your guys puns are infectious, I can't stop following them.
| 787 |
wahabicorridor Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:20:25am |
re: #769 templar
What annoys me to no end is the national media ignored Mississpippi, even though it got more than its fair share of being pounded by Katrina.
Well, it was pretty much ignored BECAUSE they were organized - the only disaster was the weather (alth IIRC, the NYT Sunday mag did run a piece on Haley Barbour that was pretty complimentary)
| 788 |
MrSilverDragon Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:20:26am |
re: #786 turn
Your guys puns are infectious, I can't stop following them.
They certainly have gone viral, haven't they?
| 789 |
midwestgak Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:20:45am |
re: #786 turn
Your guys puns are infectious, I can't stop following them.
There's a vaccine for that.
| 790 |
BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:20:59am |
re: #776 realwest
Hey BDVM! Uh, did y'all miss the part where I said the AF, Navy and Marine corps pilots can all get shot down while riding their designed by a European Committee F-35's by anyone with F-22's? Besides, it's up to us infantry types to make damn good and sure the F-22 has the landing strips it needs and we WILL get it for 'em cause it'll keep enemy fighters off our ass!
Different missions call for different planes - I think we need the -22 & the -35. Having the F-15, the current title holder for World's Finest, in service didn't mean that there wasn't a need for the F-16, F/A-18, A-10, etc.
| 791 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:21:01am |
re: #779 lawhawk
Speaking of Katrina and the Gulf Coast, it looks like the IRS may give some relief to those folks who installed Chinese drywall only to find that they caused more headaches - literally (with mold, outgassing, etc.). Chinese drywall may qualify for the casualty loss deduction if the EPA and CPSC find that it caused unusual damage.
The FEMA trailers in west central FLA after Charlie were full of formaldehyde, IIRC.
| 792 |
Kosh's Shadow Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:21:10am |
re: #777 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey
Yes, it's quite a sore spot for some people.
Here's what Frank Zappa had Joe singing, when he got an unpronounceable disease:
| 793 |
turn Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:21:28am |
re: #781 pingjockey
BBIAW, going to do battle with the damn irrigation pump!
ha, ping's pot garden needs water.
| 794 |
rightside Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:21:39am |
re: #784 redstateredneck
I lived in Pascagoula for a while, are you near there?
| 795 |
apachegunner Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:21:40am |
re: #733 buzzsawmonkey
If a soldier gets gonorrhea, doesn't he automatically get a dishonorable discharge?
no, he automatically gets a shot, thats GETS not GET.
| 796 |
wahabicorridor Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:22:43am |
re: #779 lawhawk
gawd. I remember people who were buying mulch to thoroughly source it because a lot of wood for it was out of post-Katrina NO - which has a world famous termited infestation.
YIKES
| 797 |
turn Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:22:44am |
re: #788 MrSilverDragon
They certainly have gone viral, haven't they?
I know, but I'm clapping for them to keep it up.
| 798 |
haakondahl Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:22:53am |
re: #769 templar
Just wanted to put my $0.02 in on the Katrina discussion. I was in Pascagula, MS just after Katrina doing disaster relief work. At our post was a woman who had come down from Vancouver, B.C. with a team to observe the disaster relief response and report back to the B.C. provincial government. Her colleagues in New Orleans said that the effort broke down at every level. Mississippi was a different story because even while FEMA was dithering and not functioning well, the state and local authorities were doing a superb job in maintaining order and coordinating the response. What annoys me to no end is the national media ignored Mississpippi, even though it got more than its fair share of being pounded by Katrina. I guess there weren't enough people of color for the media clowns to be interested in a place like Pascagula.
This is not about race, except when the Democrats feel that once again they can ride to victory on the backs of blacks kept poor and needy.
This is about politics first. The media couldn;t be bothered to report the amazing successes in Mississippi because Governor Haley Barbour is a Republican, and an influential one, at that. He had previously been Chairman, RNC. There is NO WAY that the MSM would touch that story.
| 799 |
Sharmuta Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:23:24am |
re: #780 iceweasel
Some US civil war historian lizard here can correct me, but didn't the civil war troops routinely desert during harvest time or planting time, to help out on the family farm? They'd come back as soon as they could and everyone kind of looked the other way.
I don't know about that, but I do know General Washington was able to keep most of his troops by not much more than sheer charisma. Reading about his speeches trying to keep the American army together are incredible, and to think- our founding pretty much hinged on Washington's ability to command men's loyalties. Impressive.
| 800 |
turn Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:23:32am |
| 801 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:23:38am |
re: #783 Nevergiveup
I know it can get confusing. The best advice I can give you is find someone that cares and isn't just doing it for the fee. Easier said than done I know.
Thanks for your input!
| 802 |
redstateredneck Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:23:53am |
re: #794 rightside
I lived in Pascagoula for a while, are you near there?
McComb (Southwest Mississippi).
| 803 |
BlueCanuck Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:24:04am |
re: #788 MrSilverDragon
They certainly have gone viral, haven't they?
Hey sometimes you just have to clap.
| 804 |
legalpad Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:24:07am |
| 805 |
realwest Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:24:12am |
re: #693 opnion
That's why he's LTC Peters - fucker's so dumb he couldn't even make full bull (full Colonel).
And he's another damn John Fucking Murtha - he's got this guy brought up on charges, convicted and sentenced based on what he hears from his "sources".
Fuck you LTC Peters - he's an American Soldier and IF he deserted, then let's get his ass back and then put him to a trial, shall we?
| 807 |
midwestgak Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:24:46am |
| 808 |
BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:24:59am |
re: #734 Spider Mensch
UCMJ, as ping and the other vets here know, is the military law..let the military handle its problem. and for all non vets.. UCMJ is the Uniformed Code for Military Justice. though it hasn't happened since Pvt Slovak ( I think), you can still face the death penalty for desertion. But in todays world I don't think you'd see that verdict.
I think you're right. I know you're right that Slovak is the last one, but that's only because I had to google earlier to find out how long it'd been since the last execution for desertion. I don't think we're likely to see that kind of verdict. And you know I agree with you about the UCMJ and the military handling its own.
I'm a progressive but I'm very pro-troops, and I know the military will handle it and they're harsher on their own than anyone else will be.
| 809 |
haakondahl Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:26:01am |
re: #782 opnion
I want him back in one piece & then there will be plenty of time to find out what happened.
DING!
| 810 |
realwest Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:26:26am |
re: #703 pingjockey
I know that ping - but it doesn't change the fact that I AM SENDING up good wishes and prayers for you and your entire crew today!
| 811 |
opnion Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:26:48am |
re: #798 haakondahl
This is not about race, except when the Democrats feel that once again they can ride to victory on the backs of blacks kept poor and needy.
This is about politics first. The media couldn;t be bothered to report the amazing successes in Mississippi because Governor Haley Barbour is a Republican, and an influential one, at that. He had previously been Chairman, RNC. There is NO WAY that the MSM would touch that story.
The media loves the race angle.
| 812 |
turn Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:27:13am |
re: #807 midwestgak
Don't try to inject me with that.
Such a fevered response, what's your problem gal?
| 813 |
redstateredneck Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:27:18am |
re: #796 wahabicorridor
gawd. I remember people who were buying mulch to thoroughly source it because a lot of wood for it was out of post-Katrina NO - which has a world famous termited infestation.
YIKES
| 814 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:27:32am |
re: #780 iceweasel
Oh I know Walter! I updinged you!-- I got what you were saying.
You are raising a lot of profound issues and I don't have answers for them all.
I'm personally anti-death penalty. I also think deserters are generally the lowest of the low ( i say generally because you're a 'deserter' if you're AWOL, but not every person who is AWOL is a deserter, and I think desertion during war or battle is different)
Some US civil war historian lizard here can correct me, but didn't the civil war troops routinely desert during harvest time or planting time, to help out on the family farm? They'd come back as soon as they could and everyone kind of looked the other way.
Yes, I've read that too. Soldiers during the Revolution would leave when they had had enough. I don't think we can compare those past wars with conscripted or volunteer troops who were not professional soldiers to the wars in the past century. I don't think the professional soldiers in either the previous wars mentioned left their post for such reasons.
| 815 |
rightside Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:28:00am |
re: #802 redstateredneck
Cool, about 3 hours, via I-10 and I-55
| 816 |
BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:28:15am |
| 817 |
redstateredneck Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:29:14am |
re: #815 rightside
Cool, about 3 hours, via I-10 and I-55
Yeah, it's just a couple of hours, quicker if you go east on 98 to Hattiesburg and then south on 49.
| 818 |
midwestgak Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:29:18am |
| 819 |
turn Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:29:26am |
re: #816 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey
So the same thing gives & heals the infection?
ha, you picked up on that. Yeah sometimes I can be a real dick.
| 820 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:29:43am |
| 821 |
realwest Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:29:43am |
re: #708 ggtHey ggt! Well we don't KNOW he deserted. Number one. And if he did, he's entitled to a trial wherein he is represented by counsel,number two, and LTC Peters should shut his yap until we recover this kid, if we do number 3.
What the hell seperates Peters from Murtha in prejudging this kid like this the way Murtha did with those Marines in Haditha?
| 822 |
Killian Bundy Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:29:44am |
Biden on delicate mission to Ukraine, Georgia
Vice President Joe Biden meets Ukrainian leaders on Tuesday as the United States seeks a new balance between supporting pro-Western aims of former Soviet republics and putting ties with Russia back on track.
His trip this week to Ukraine and Georgia comes two weeks after President Barack Obama travelled to Moscow where he called Russia a "great power" and announced a "reset" of Washington's strained relations with its Cold War foe.
Hoo boy, who better to send on a delicate diplomatic mission to Ukraine and Georgia than Ol' Plugs? Hilarity is sure to ensue.
/warm up the clown car . . . or our nuclear retaliatory forces, depending on what lunacy he inevitably blurts out uncontrollably
| 823 |
KenJen Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:29:55am |
re: #812 turn
Such a fevered response, what's your problem gal?
She is being a bit rash with that response.
| 825 |
Kenneth Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:30:44am |
Is there any reliable source of information that confirms this soldier really did desert? If all we have to go on is the video released by the Taliban, we can be certain the "confession" was extracted by torture and threats of more torture and death. The reason the Taliban would do this is obvious: it will sow dissension among US military and public. It seems to be working.
Any Western journalist who falls for this ploy is a fool, and a scumbag. Shame upon them!
| 826 |
templar Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:30:51am |
re: #799 Sharmuta
Desertion was a offense that could lead to summary execution by your superior officer, but in most cases flogging was used followed by a return to your unit. Claim jumpers (men who would enlist under a false name to collect enlistment pay then desert only to enlist again) were usually subject to long prison sentences if caught. The situation back home on the family farm was often left entirely in the hands of the women, the children, and the old to scrape by as best as they could. Officers could sometimes get furlough after the summer campaigning season but for the enlisted men the end of the summer campaigning season meant long months in winter camp. As the war dragged on and the draft was instituted this was more essential to keep the army intact.
| 828 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:30:52am |
re: #821 realwest
Hey ggt! Well we don't KNOW he deserted. Number one. And if he did, he's entitled to a trial wherein he is represented by counsel,number two, and LTC Peters should shut his yap until we recover this kid, if we do number 3.
What the hell seperates Peters from Murtha in prejudging this kid like this the way Murtha did with those Marines in Haditha?
Hey real. I was just wondering the thought process of it all. Lizards have explained that pretty well.
| 829 |
midwestgak Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:31:07am |
| 831 |
turn Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:31:24am |
re: #818 midwestgak
I am delirious.
Well in that case I'll let it pass, although the comment almost made me vomit. (dang, this gonorrhea pun is a tough one)
| 832 |
BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:32:58am |
re: #819 turn
ha, you picked up on that. Yeah sometimes I can be a real dick.
Don't be so hard-on your self. We all go off a little half-cocked & pull a few boners.
| 833 |
haakondahl Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:33:01am |
re: #816 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey
So the same thing gives & heals the infection?
That would be Homopathy?
| 834 |
realwest Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:33:03am |
re: #719 ggt
"It's a thought process that has led me to wonder how Congress critters actually afford to be Congress critters."
Well they either take in roomates or they use some of the $100,000+ expense account money they get on top of their $181,000 a year salary, best health care in the World for free and the best - and shortest time of employment required - for retirmement.
| 835 |
BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:33:30am |
re: #782 opnion
Good question. What does seem clear to me is that this guy did not desert to go fight for the other side.
I want him back in one piece & then there will be plenty of time to find out what happened.
Honestly? If I had to guess (and i don't know enough yet) I think might have been decoyed off base by some 'locals' that other military there had also made friends with. The 'friendly locals' told him they had a girl, or some liquor, or whatever.
It's happening lots in Iraq and Afghanistan-- military make friends or have working relationships with locals who aren't truly friendly or trustworthy. I can easily imagine this guy being tricked to go off base and it having nothing at all to do with 'desertion' or anything blameworthy-- apart from him being a young naive guy in a horrible situation who got tricked.
We don't know what happened yet but my inclination is to give him every possible benefit of doubt until we learn anything substantial.
| 836 |
turn Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:34:08am |
re: #823 KenJen
She is being a bit rash with that response.
Yes but getting along with her genitals consideration and kindness.
| 837 |
realwest Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:34:33am |
re: #728 pingjockey
We own yer ass until you're discharged one way or the other!
And sometimes AFTER your discharged, one way or another!
| 838 |
BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:35:24am |
| 839 |
BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:35:30am |
re: #825 Kenneth
Is there any reliable source of information that confirms this soldier really did desert? If all we have to go on is the video released by the Taliban, we can be certain the "confession" was extracted by torture and threats of more torture and death. The reason the Taliban would do this is obvious: it will sow dissension among US military and public. It seems to be working.
Any Western journalist who falls for this ploy is a fool, and a scumbag. Shame upon them!
As far as I've heard, there is no reason at all to think he deserted. He allegedly left the base on his own, but i mentioned a couple of reasons why he might have done that (because he was tricked, basically).
| 840 |
FrogMarch Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:35:47am |
One day the government spends millions on ham - thinly sliced and at a good price, but there it is. Next... this. Coincidence? I think not.
| 841 |
NJDhockeyfan Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:36:06am |
Just a reminder...there are still protests going on in Tehran. Here is a video from today.
| 842 |
Kenneth Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:37:41am |
re: #839 iceweasel
I really appreciate your posts on this topic. In due course, the truth will be known, but in the meantime it is contemptible to give the enemy what they want from this propaganda exercise.
| 843 |
turn Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:37:48am |
re: #832 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey
Don't be so hard-on your self. We all go off a little half-cocked & pull a few boners.
Oh cum on, what kind of advice is that?
| 844 |
KenJen Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:37:51am |
re: #836 turn
Yes but getting along with her genitals consideration and kindness.
She can be crotchety./
| 845 |
opnion Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:37:55am |
re: #821 realwest
Hey ggt! Well we don't KNOW he deserted. Number one. And if he did, he's entitled to a trial wherein he is represented by counsel,number two, and LTC Peters should shut his yap until we recover this kid, if we do number 3.
What the hell seperates Peters from Murtha in prejudging this kid like this the way Murtha did with those Marines in Haditha?
Hi Real, in Fairness Peters did say "IF" he deserted.
None the less you are right about peters shutting up.
This pulic speculation does no good & he would want the Taliban to execute him? Despicable
| 846 |
avanti Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:38:19am |
| 847 |
Charpete67 Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:38:36am |
re: #841 NJDhockeyfan
how is this not in the MSM?
| 848 |
realwest Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:39:01am |
re: #757 justabill
I believe the Marines view is a bit different. There are no ex-Marines. Once a Marine, always a Marine.
Except for John Fucking Murtha - he is and will ALWAYS BE AN EX-MARINE. Former Marines are those who don't bring disgrace to the Corps. (and this from an Army vet, no less!).
| 850 |
redstateredneck Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:39:31am |
| 851 |
Kosh's Shadow Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:39:42am |
| 852 |
Kosh's Shadow Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:40:07am |
re: #850 redstateredneck
Probably trying to ketchup to someone.
Well, the driver certainly couldn't cut the mustard.
| 853 |
opnion Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:40:39am |
re: #846 avanti
The driver was obviously hot dogging.
Avanti, I didn't get a chance yesterday, salutes to you & your son.
| 854 |
turn Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:40:53am |
| 855 |
KenJen Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:40:57am |
re: #850 redstateredneck
Probably trying to ketchup to someone.
Slow news day. This story is just filler.
| 856 |
saberry0530 Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:41:23am |
re: #852 Kosh's Shadow
Well, the driver certainly couldn't cut the mustard.
Cheese! I think it was just to chili!
| 857 |
avanti Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:41:38am |
re: #852 Kosh's Shadow
Well, the driver certainly couldn't cut the mustard.
Do you have a link for that.
| 858 |
redstateredneck Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:41:39am |
| 859 |
rightside Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:41:40am |
re: #848 realwest
Speaking of that mother[deleted], the noose draws tighter.
| 860 |
Charpete67 Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:41:42am |
re: #841 NJDhockeyfan
on this video you see the faces of a new generation of Iranians that will hate the US if Obama meets with Whackmadinajob.
| 861 |
midwestgak Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:41:47am |
| 862 |
realwest Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:42:02am |
re: #770 Charpete67
how is John Boehner at 15%?...he has no power and in the minority
Probably because he's the Designated "NO" man to all of the Leftist pary's bullshit ideas. And he doesn't come across as well on TV as does Obama with a teleprompter.
| 863 |
lawhawk Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:42:06am |
OT:
Suicide bombers in Afghanistan killed six in multiple attacks against government installations.
Taliban suicide bombers, most of them disguised in burkas, tried to storm government buildings and a military base in two
Afghan cities on Tuesday, killing six people, officials said.The attacks in Gardez and Jalalabad came amid a surge in violence ahead of presidential and provincial elections on August 20, when President Hamid Karzai will stand for re-election despite criticisms about security and corruption.
Taliban militants have increasingly used coordinated suicide and gun attacks in their fight against Karzai's government.
Six suicide bombers, some of them also carrying guns, tried to enter several government buildings in Gardez in Paktia province but were shot dead before reaching their targets, provincial spokesman Rohullah Samoon said.
| 864 |
haakondahl Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:42:13am |
Puns about VD and BLTs can only result in unsavory condiment.
| 866 |
redstateredneck Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:43:01am |
Simultaneous gonorrhea and hot dog puns are just not right, y'all.
| 867 |
Killgore Trout Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:43:14am |
MPACUK: Jews killed Michale Jackson...
Israeli Company Linked To Michael Jackson's Death
An Israeli pharmaceutical company has recalled two batches of an anesthetic drug connected to the investigation of Michael Jackson's death.
The anesthetic was found in Jackson's home following his death last month, the Associated Press reported.
Teva Pharmaceuticals recalled two lots of propofol after 40 people in three states got sick from bacterial contamination. A Teva spokeswoman told the news service that the tracking number on the tainted lots was different from the number on the vial found at Jackson's home.The drug is normally used in hospitals to render patients unconscious during surgery. Investigators are seeking to trace how the drug came into Jackson's possession.
| 868 |
avanti Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:43:28am |
re: #853 opnion
Avanti, I didn't get a chance yesterday, salutes to you & your son.
Thanks, but secondson. We were his sponsor family at the academy, but that's how we feel about him.
| 869 |
saberry0530 Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:43:57am |
| 870 |
midwestgak Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:44:02am |
| 871 |
Charpete67 Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:44:09am |
re: #862 realwest
I agree, but 15%?
Just an observation...he reminds me of the guy sitting in the golf course bar drinking a bloody mary and sucking down a heater...great tan and 3 handicap.
| 873 |
turn Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:44:18am |
re: #857 avanti
Do you have a link for that.
Crashing into the building sure got him into a pickle, I surre wouldn't relish that.
| 874 |
turn Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:45:08am |
re: #868 avanti
Thanks, but secondson. We were his sponsor family at the academy, but that's how we feel about him.
Hey avanti, I missed the story about your son. sup?
| 876 |
opnion Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:45:37am |
Peters mentioned that our soldier is collaborating with the enemy because of the video.
This is at the point of a gun & threat of beheading.
Compare that to John Kerry running over to Paris to collaborate with the NVA & VC delegations subvertng his own country. Kerry was on Reserve Status as a Naval officer at the time, yet he sits in the Senate & ran for President.
Kerry, imo should have done some serious jail time.
| 877 |
Charpete67 Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:45:54am |
re: #873 turn
Crashing into the building sure got him into a pickle, I surre wouldn't relish that.
...Jihad gone bad?...
| 878 |
KenJen Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:45:56am |
re: #873 turn
Crashing into the building sure got him into a pickle, I surre wouldn't relish that.
I bet his boss really toasted his bun.
| 879 |
Mad Al-Jaffee Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:46:12am |
re: #873 turn
Crashing into the building sure got him into a pickle, I surre wouldn't relish that.
You all are being brats today.
| 880 |
jcm Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:46:20am |
Eevvilll Oil companies are racked over the coals for 8% profit margins.
Not gonna' hold my breath for congressional hearings on this one...
Coke profit rises 43% to $2 billion
Coke profits disproportionately impact the poor. They have less money to spend on food to begin with, Coke's unconscionable profits therefore take a much larger share out of the poor's food budget. Coke should be investigated for crimes against humanity for taking food out of children's mouths!
I DEMAND JUSTICE!
//
Morning Honcos!
| 881 |
yma o hyd Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:46:58am |
Hiya, Lizard Nation!
I hope you all enjoy wall-to-wall sunshine!
Here, we've had Mandy's liquid sunshine, from top to bottom, during the night and all day, with a few imperceptible breathing spaces ...
When I tell you that this morning we saw ducks swimming on the mini-lakes on what are playing fields, you'll have some idea how bad it is!
| 882 |
haakondahl Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:47:00am |
| 883 |
Vicious Babushka Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:47:07am |
re: #780 iceweasel
Oh I know Walter! I updinged you!-- I got what you were saying.
You are raising a lot of profound issues and I don't have answers for them all.
I'm personally anti-death penalty. I also think deserters are generally the lowest of the low ( i say generally because you're a 'deserter' if you're AWOL, but not every person who is AWOL is a deserter, and I think desertion during war or battle is different)
Some US civil war historian lizard here can correct me, but didn't the civil war troops routinely desert during harvest time or planting time, to help out on the family farm? They'd come back as soon as they could and everyone kind of looked the other way.
This was very common for Confederate troops. The war zone was close enough to home that they were able to do this. However the authorities DID NOT look kindly on this, did you ever read "Cold Mountain" (or even see the bad movie).
Union troops had another desertion problem entirely. They would offer a "bounty" for new recruits, so there were scam artists called "bounty jumpers" who would sign up with one regiment, take the "bounty," desert and sign up with a different regiment, take the "bounty," desert, etc.
| 884 |
turn Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:47:16am |
| 885 |
opnion Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:47:23am |
re: #868 avanti
Thanks, but secondson. We were his sponsor family at the academy, but that's how we feel about him.
Still, congratulations.
| 886 |
midwestgak Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:47:23am |
| 887 |
realwest Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:47:37am |
re: #806 taxfreekiller
Hey TFK my friend! According to Steele in response to a barrage of e-mails from me, some of them (Collins for sure for 2010) the RNC is looking for someone to run against them in a primary. He said the same thing about Specter before Specter outed his own ass.
| 888 |
saberry0530 Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:47:37am |
| 889 |
turn Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:48:05am |
| 890 |
Mad Al-Jaffee Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:48:07am |
| 891 |
MrSilverDragon Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:48:07am |
| 892 |
BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:48:20am |
re: #880 jcm
Eevvilll Oil companies are racked over the coals for 8% profit margins.
Not gonna' hold my breath for congressional hearings on this one...
Coke profit rises 43% to $2 billion
Coke profits disproportionately impact the poor. They have less money to spend on food to begin with, Coke's unconscionable profits therefore take a much larger share out of the poor's food budget. Coke should be investigated for crimes against humanity for taking food out of children's mouths!
I DEMAND JUSTICE!
//
Morning Honcos!
You jest, but Coke is a Big Business, & iconic of "American Imperialism" like McDonald's - I would not be surprised if some loon in Congress did demand an investigation!
| 893 |
lawhawk Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:48:59am |
re: #863 lawhawk
Update. 14 dead; terrorists were dressed as women in burkhas.
| 895 |
Charpete67 Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:49:32am |
re: #878 KenJen
I bet his boss really toasted his bun.
can you imagine the 911 call?..."someone just drove their wiener into my garage..."
| 896 |
BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:49:33am |
re: #876 opnion
Peters mentioned that our soldier is collaborating with the enemy because of the video.
This is at the point of a gun & threat of beheading.
And compare this to John McCain, who very reluctantly, and after many beatings, including broken limbs, finally made some (small) statements for his captors. I bet Ralph Peters doesn't think McCain should be condemned or killed for that.
Fuck ralph peters for what he's saying.
| 897 |
FrogMarch Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:49:44am |
re: #880 jcm
The left really are going full force to vilify profit making. The propaganda is everywhere. TV ads, TV shows, movies... all the DNC media news outlets - there is a constant drum beat. We must destroy capitalism! and replace it with government run health insurance. Stupidly, the parasitic left do not understand that they cannot have their socialist utopia without a host.
| 899 |
wahabicorridor Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:49:57am |
| 900 |
haakondahl Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:50:17am |
| 901 |
turn Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:50:19am |
re: #881 yma o hyd
{yma} stay dry and let Madame out to chase the ducks around.
| 902 |
NJDhockeyfan Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:50:40am |
re: #893 lawhawk
Update. 14 dead; terrorists were dressed as women in burkhas.
Maybe they were just transsexuals. Think diversity!
| 903 |
Mad Al-Jaffee Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:50:44am |
| 904 |
realwest Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:50:55am |
re: #831 turn
Well in that case I'll let it pass, although the comment almost made me vomit. (dang, this gonorrhea pun is a tough one)
I'm gonna be clapping over that one!
| 906 |
midwestgak Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:51:13am |
| 907 |
turn Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:51:35am |
re: #887 realwest
btw, Steel did pretty good on Chrissy's show last night. You see that?
| 909 |
Vicious Babushka Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:51:43am |
I am not a happy camper this morning, Lizards. I just heard about the job I interviewed for. Not only did I not get the job, THE JOB ORDER HAS BEEN CANCELLED so that means nobody got the job.
I am so freaking bummed now. And my son keeps asking me for money for his wedding.
Please buy stuff at the Zionist Mall. It is my only source of income right now. We have a lot of good stuff from Israel so you would be helping me out and supporting Israel too.
| 910 |
Charpete67 Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:51:49am |
| 911 |
yma o hyd Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:51:51am |
re: #899 wahabicorridor
Well, don't waste the opportunity!
Thanks!
:-)
(Madame is too slow now to have a chance of catching one ...)
| 912 |
Mad Al-Jaffee Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:51:57am |
re: #899 wahabicorridor
Well, don't waste the opportunity!
You can save a lot on your grocery bill if you use wild ducks.
| 913 |
haakondahl Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:52:40am |
re: #896 iceweasel
And compare this to John McCain, who very reluctantly, and after many beatings, including broken limbs, finally made some (small) statements for his captors. I bet Ralph Peters doesn't think McCain should be condemned or killed for that.
Fuck ralph peters for what he's saying.
Zackly. This is a young man, very junior in rank, and somebody's son. And we're going to find him and bring him home.
| 914 |
Mad Al-Jaffee Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:52:46am |
| 915 |
wahabicorridor Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:53:00am |
re: #909 Alouette
The zionist mall is YOU? Good gracious, I'll pop right over!
| 917 |
Kosh's Shadow Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:53:34am |
| 918 |
opnion Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:53:59am |
re: #896 iceweasel
And compare this to John McCain, who very reluctantly, and after many beatings, including broken limbs, finally made some (small) statements for his captors. I bet Ralph Peters doesn't think McCain should be condemned or killed for that.
Fuck ralph peters for what he's saying.
Yeah, I am very surprised at him.
| 919 |
BlueCanuck Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:54:05am |
| 920 |
BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:54:29am |
re: #883 Alouette
Alouette, Thanks for that post. I remembered enough to know that there was a difference in desertion reasons for Confed vs Union troops and I had a hazy memory of what you describe. I didn't want to just throw out there "the confederate troops went home to work on the farm" without the stats and the memory of all the different reasons why the Union troops deserted too. Thanks!
| 921 |
BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:54:32am |
| 922 |
yma o hyd Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:54:35am |
re: #901 turn
{yma} stay dry and let Madame out to chase the ducks around.
Aww - Madame is getting on a bit, she isn't that keen on chasing any feathered intruders ...
You should have seen the look she gave me when i opened the abck door first thing this morning!
Her meaning couldn't have been clearer: 'You cannot possibly expect me to go out in that!'
| 923 |
NJDhockeyfan Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:54:57am |
Heads will be exploding at DKos...heh.
Obama authorizes security extension for Cheney
President Obama has authorized an extension for former Vice President Dick Cheney's secret service security detail, the New York Daily News reports.
Cheney, of course, has been one of Obama's biggest critics, especially on national security issues.
But the Daily News reports that Obama has signed off on providing Cheney with an extra six months on his security detail. Typically, vice presidents are afforded a detail for six months.
| 924 |
Kosh's Shadow Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:55:02am |
| 925 |
Mad Al-Jaffee Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:55:27am |
| 926 |
realwest Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:55:38am |
re: #859 rightside
Speaking of that mother[deleted], the noose draws tighter.
Ordinarily I'd cheer that news, but now that Eric Holder is so focused on bringing the "criminals" in the Bush administration to "justice" I have little doubt that Murtha will walk.
| 927 |
turn Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:55:55am |
re: #904 realwest
I'm gonna be clapping over that one!
Ha ha, I laughed so hard I turned red, almost made me piss.
| 928 |
BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:56:01am |
| 929 |
haakondahl Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:56:23am |
re: #896 iceweasel
And compare this to John McCain, who very reluctantly, and after many beatings, including broken limbs, finally made some (small) statements for his captors. I bet Ralph Peters doesn't think McCain should be condemned or killed for that.
Fuck ralph peters for what he's saying.
Dammit ice, you're okay! Sorry I can only ding you once.
| 930 |
Mad Al-Jaffee Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:56:34am |
| 931 |
midwestgak Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:56:48am |
| 932 |
BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:56:57am |
re: #913 haakondahl
Zackly. This is a young man, very junior in rank, and somebody's son. And we're going to find him and bring him home.
I hope so. I really do. The video released upset me a lot.
| 933 |
yma o hyd Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:57:27am |
re: #909 Alouette
I am not a happy camper this morning, Lizards. I just heard about the job I interviewed for. Not only did I not get the job, THE JOB ORDER HAS BEEN CANCELLED so that means nobody got the job.
I am so freaking bummed now. And my son keeps asking me for money for his wedding.
Please buy stuff at the Zionist Mall. It is my only source of income right now. We have a lot of good stuff from Israel so you would be helping me out and supporting Israel too.
I'm truly sorry to hear that!
{Alouette}
(At least if its any consolation, not getting the job wasn't anything to do with you personally.)
| 934 |
jcm Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:57:33am |
re: #897 FrogMarch
The left really are going full force to vilify profit making. The propaganda is everywhere. TV ads, TV shows, movies... all the DNC media news outlets - there is a constant drum beat. We must destroy capitalism! and replace it with government run health insurance. Stupidly, the parasitic left do not understand that they cannot have their socialist utopia without a host.
In my industry, silicon we shoot for 50% gross profit. We also plow a huge bit of that profit into R&D, silicon technology moves so fast if you don't your dead. This recent down turn our company has lost money several quarters in a row, mostly because we did not cut R&D, if we cut R&D we wouldn't be ready for the upturn. Our stock price has actually gone up because investors understand that.
| 935 |
Nevergiveup Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:57:54am |
Blue Dog Dems Scuttle House Committee's Review of Health Care Reform Bill
[Link: www.foxnews.com...]
Apparently this is bad news for the Obamacare plan. YIPPIE
| 936 |
BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:58:49am |
re: #923 NJDhockeyfan
Heads will be exploding at DKos...heh.
not at all. I'm a lefty and I support security extension for Cheney-- because of all the lefty lunatics that might want to kill him, heh.
| 937 |
Charpete67 Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:58:57am |
re: #913 haakondahl
Zackly. This is a young man, very junior in rank, and somebody's son. And we're going to find him and bring him home.
maybe he made a stupid decision, but he doesn't deserve what they will do to him.
| 938 |
realwest Tue, Jul 21, 2009 7:59:04am |
re: #880 jcm Good morning jcm! Hey, I thought coke was illegal? Whether in powdered or smokeable (crack) and I don't see...oh, waitaminute.
nevermind.
| 940 |
Nevergiveup Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:00:04am |
SEOUL, South Korea — The recent aborted voyage of a North Korean ship, photographs of massive tunnels and a top secret meeting have raised alarm bells that one of the world's poorest nations may be aspiring to join the nuclear club — with help from its friends in Pyongyang. No one expects military-run Burma, renamed Myanmar, to obtain an atomic bomb anytime soon, but experts have the Southeast Asian nation on their radar screen.
[Link: www.foxnews.com...]
Hey Obama, hows that thing about the USA just being one of the guys and not the "LEADER" of the free world going?
| 941 |
haakondahl Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:00:05am |
re: #876 opnion
Peters mentioned that our soldier is collaborating ...
I think that Peters has been out of the military and in the media for too long.
Does anybody here think that this opinion was not discussed beforehand for impact? Peters has been there for years now--he's not the fresh, voice-from-the-military analyst he once was. He's a media boob now.
I could understand if some regular civilan commentator came up with this, but for a Vet--it's just unthinkable. IT IS CERTAINLY UNSAYABLE.
| 942 |
BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:00:57am |
re: #929 haakondahl
Dammit ice, you're okay! Sorry I can only ding you once.
I'm thinking of all kinds of dirty things to say about that!
You're cool, haak. :)
| 943 |
realwest Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:01:04am |
re: #881 yma o hyd
Good morning {yma} - er, good afternoon! Ducks? Well break out the ole shotguns and...uh, are shotguns for fowl hunting still legal in GB?!
| 944 |
jcm Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:01:17am |
re: #938 realwest
Good morning jcm! Hey, I thought coke was illegal? Whether in powdered or smokeable (crack) and I don't see...oh, waitaminute.
nevermind.
That's another thing! The name! It makes coke acceptable to the children, then when they are given the drug they are already desensitized to the name.
For God's sake do something for the children!
//
Morning RW!
| 945 |
turn Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:01:32am |
re: #922 yma o hyd
Aww - Madame is getting on a bit, she isn't that keen on chasing any feathered intruders ...
You should have seen the look she gave me when i opened the abck door first thing this morning!
Her meaning couldn't have been clearer: 'You cannot possibly expect me to go out in that!'
Ha, them dang dogs - they sure know how to get their message across. We have two Lhasa Apso and the youngest is named Tinky (well whalen actually). He has the cutest overbite you have ever seen, so much expression. The turnwife and I can usually find out what he is thinking just by looking at that overbite. ha
| 946 |
Holidays are Family Fun Time Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:02:17am |
It's been great chatting with you-all this am. I have to get in the shower before check-out time.
I probably won't have internet access for a day or two, so
have great week all!
| 948 |
haakondahl Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:03:14am |
re: #936 iceweasel
not at all. I'm a lefty and I support security extension for Cheney-- because of all the lefty lunatics that might want to kill him, heh.
he didn't say Ds, Ls, or Ps. He said over at DKos. And I think he's right. You, by contrast, are over here.
| 949 |
yma o hyd Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:03:55am |
Here's another fine example of how the despicable, neostalinist NuLab government is trying to pull the wool over our eyes - and not for the first time:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article6721120.ece
From that link:
'A mountain of bad news was buried by the Government as it rushed out reports and 26 ministerial statements the day before MPs go on holiday. Whitehall sources said that many of the reports were ready to be published weeks ago, and would normally be released in stages, but ministers had insisted they all be delayed till yesterday.
The dangerous state of the public finances was laid bare by the reports, which showed that the Government’s tax take plummeted by £32 billion last year. Figures from HM Revenue & Customs showed income tax, national insurance, VAT, stamp duty and corporation tax fell by £21 billion, while other debts and legal liabilities had cut income by a further £10 billion.'
Doesn't work any longer - even the moonbatty Grauniad's readers are turning against Gord, and except for the BBC the MFM and the civil servants in government know that their goose will be truly cooked when the Tories get in. Thats why they are all of a sudden so exceedingly 'impartial' ...
| 950 |
turn Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:04:04am |
| 951 |
wahabicorridor Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:04:07am |
re: #935 Nevergiveup
Blue Dog Dems Scuttle House Committee's Review of Health Care Reform Bill
[Link: www.foxnews.com...]
Apparently this is bad news for the Obamacare plan. YIPPIE
Yeah, but I think Obama has summoned them to the WH this afternoon.
| 952 |
NJDhockeyfan Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:04:52am |
To Obama's delight, Bono admits he sidestepped a hug from George Bush
You'd think that any rock star would relish a chance to get a public embrace from the President of the United States, even if they didn't agree on everything.
But not Bono.
On a BBC program last night, the superstar U2 singer recalled how he he stiffed President Bush out of the photo op in 2006 at the National Prayer Breakfast.
The former President was on the stage with Bush when "Dubya" tried to hug Bono.
"There were all kinds of people in the audience," Bono recalled on Jonathan Ross' talk show.
Bono admitted he didn't feel like being the recipient of a hug from a man with whom he had so many political disagreements.
As the affectionate President neared, Bono tried to "dodge the hug" by jumping behind a podium.
The sidestep worked, and just about nobody in the audience knew it happened — though it was all captured on camera.
But — there was one sharp-eyed Senator in the bipartisan crowd who saw it all.
"When I was sitting down I was beside Sen. Obama, the star said the future President whispered to him, 'Nice work with the hug dodge.'"
| 953 |
jcm Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:05:11am |
re: #940 Nevergiveup
SEOUL, South Korea — The recent aborted voyage of a North Korean ship, photographs of massive tunnels and a top secret meeting have raised alarm bells that one of the world's poorest nations may be aspiring to join the nuclear club — with help from its friends in Pyongyang. No one expects military-run Burma, renamed Myanmar, to obtain an atomic bomb anytime soon, but experts have the Southeast Asian nation on their radar screen.
[Link: www.foxnews.com...]
Hey Obama, hows that thing about the USA just being one of the guys and not the "LEADER" of the free world going?
We just have to give up our nuclear weapons and everyone else will follow our lead.
/The Won
| 954 |
haakondahl Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:05:15am |
BBL Dinner calls. (Been calling for three hours, gotta go).
| 955 |
yma o hyd Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:05:48am |
re: #943 realwest
Good morning {yma} - er, good afternoon! Ducks? Well break out the ole shotguns and...uh, are shotguns for fowl hunting still legal in GB?!
Hiya, {rw}!
Yes - they are still legal, but not in the middle of a city, in a public open space!
| 956 |
Ward Cleaver Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:06:01am |
re: #952 NJDhockeyfan
To Obama's delight, Bono admits he sidestepped a hug from George Bush
Assholes (Bono and 0bama).
| 957 |
Vicious Babushka Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:06:24am |
re: #952 NJDhockeyfan
To Obama's delight, Bono admits he sidestepped a hug from George Bush
I'm glad George Bush avoided hugging the world's largest living turd.
| 959 |
redstateredneck Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:07:00am |
| 960 |
wahabicorridor Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:07:16am |
re: #949 yma o hyd
Heh. The Obama's admin budget rpt was due out - but they delayed it till mid-August - when everyone will be in official 'recess'.
| 961 |
Ward Cleaver Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:07:41am |
re: #957 Alouette
I'm glad George Bush avoided hugging the world's largest living turd.
He might've picked up some kind of disease.
| 962 |
BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:07:47am |
re: #951 wahabicorridor
Yeah, but I think Obama has summoned them to the WH this afternoon.
Yep. Obama and others are totally going to beat the Blue Dogs this week. They have to.
| 963 |
yma o hyd Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:09:02am |
re: #945 turn
Ha, them dang dogs - they sure know how to get their message across. We have two Lhasa Apso and the youngest is named Tinky (well whalen actually). He has the cutest overbite you have ever seen, so much expression. The turnwife and I can usually find out what he is thinking just by looking at that overbite. ha
I bet you can!
Dogs are so expressive, their faces and their whole body language, its so funny!
This morning, in the park with the ducks, the only dogwalkers out were those with Border Collies ... all the others preferred indoor games!
Can't blame them - it took all day for Madame to dry out.
Well - she is a bit woolly ...
| 964 |
Lincolntf Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:10:17am |
I heard (local radio) that Obama had recently mentioned getting health care done "this year" as opposed to his long-standing "this summer" standard.
Maybe he's finally realizing that this turkey ain't gonna fly.
| 965 |
Nevergiveup Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:10:38am |
re: #962 iceweasel
Yep. Obama and others are totally going to beat the Blue Dogs this week. They have to.
One thing trumps the President:Jobs.
These guys/gals want their job and want to be re-elected and apparently they are hearing loud and clear from their constituents that they hate this Obamacare crap.
| 966 |
yma o hyd Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:11:00am |
re: #960 wahabicorridor
Heh. The Obama's admin budget rpt was due out - but they delayed it till mid-August - when everyone will be in official 'recess'.
PB0 and his merry louts are learning fast, aren't they ... copying twelve years of NuLab experience ...
| 968 |
realwest Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:11:19am |
re: #907 turnNope, I didn't I'm afraid. Seriously back in the runup (and I mean RUN up to the stimulus bill) I e-mailed Steele with about five or six carefully thought out and worded (i.e, the opposite of what I generally post out here) e-mails and got real responses -not generic ones, where a staffer filled in the blanks) and Steele was - although he didn't say it - really frustrated. He said, among many other things, that the Republican Party can't control who put's an "R" after their name (he was referring, ironically enough to Spector) and his power is limited to fundraising and he wanted to use money raised to, among other things, get the truth out about Obama's Cap and Trade and healthcare, but also needed to spend some dough supporting conservative republicans and fielding opposition via the primaries against RINOS (my term,not his).
I do think Steele is trying hard, but whoever ran against him for RNC Chairmanship is taking pot shots at him - either directly or through surrogates so that HE can become head of the RNC.
I tell ya the GOP is acting just like the Leftist Party formally known as the Democrats. Splintered up into special interest groups.
| 969 |
avanti Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:11:45am |
re: #952 NJDhockeyfan
To Obama's delight, Bono admits he sidestepped a hug from George Bush
I was glad to see Obama did not follow Bono's
| 970 |
Kosh's Shadow Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:11:47am |
re: #951 wahabicorridor
Yeah, but I think Obama has summoned them to the WH this afternoon.
Rahm will make them an offer they can't refuse.
Chicago style.
| 972 |
Charpete67 Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:11:58am |
re: #952 NJDhockeyfan
what an ungrateful ass...Bush did more for Africa and the AIDS issue than anyone. Last I checked, Bono isn't a citizen of the US and nothing burns me more than foreigners getting in to our politics.
| 973 |
Charpete67 Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:12:53am |
| 974 |
Honorary Yooper Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:12:54am |
re: #964 Lincolntf
I heard (local radio) that Obama had recently mentioned getting health care done "this year" as opposed to his long-standing "this summer" standard.
Maybe he's finally realizing that this turkey ain't gonna fly.
"As God as my witness, I thought Health Care could fly."
-Barack "Carlson" Obama
| 975 |
jcm Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:13:35am |
Repost from last night for the morning crew.
Bailout Worst Case Tally: $23.7 Trillion
The chief watchdog over the government's massive bail-out effort has come up with a worst-case scenario price tag for taxpayers ... and it's a stunning figure by any measure.To give you an idea of how big we're talking, the cost is measured isn't measured in millions or billions... but trillions.
US annual GDP... $14 Trillion.
That's just the BAILOUT liability, not Porkzilla, not Healthcare.
On top of the $12 Tillion deficit (which Obama only inherited a third of).
On top of $53 Trillion in unfunded mandates.
Madness.
| 976 |
avanti Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:13:47am |
| 978 |
FrogMarch Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:14:15am |
re: #952 NJDhockeyfan
To Obama's delight, Bono admits he sidestepped a hug from George Bush
The elite parasite class has no class.
| 979 |
redstateredneck Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:14:25am |
re: #956 Ward Cleaver
Assholes (Bono and 0bama).
Hmmm, I just heard the audio from this interview and Bono admits that he was being a coward by dodging the hug from Bush since Bush had done so much for Aids, tripling the amount of money for Aids relief. Obama comes off as the real jerk. Bono almost sounds like he regrets letting his personal politics get in the way of accepting affection from a very generous man.
| 980 |
Truck Monkey Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:14:32am |
re: #952 NJDhockeyfan
To Obama's delight, Bono admits he sidestepped a hug from George Bush
What a petty little shit. GW did more for the sick and starving in Africa that ANY other world leader before him, including the nominal leaders of those African countries that got the assistance. If that is what Bono really cares about he should have been bear hugging W. I miss the man.
| 981 |
Charpete67 Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:15:20am |
re: #979 redstateredneck
Hmmm, I just heard the audio from this interview and Bono admits that he was being a coward by dodging the hug from Bush since Bush had done so much for Aids, tripling the amount of money for Aids relief. Obama comes off as the real jerk. Bono almost sounds like he regrets letting his personal politics get in the way of accepting affection from a very generous man.
he's still a coward and an ass
| 982 |
Ziggy Standard Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:15:45am |
The return of the National Front
[Link: www.hurryupharry.org...]
| 983 |
dwells38 Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:17:04am |
re: #686 midwestgak
I never give to beggers. When I was young back in the '80s I worked for a short time as a cab driver. I was approached by a man asking for 75 cents so he could take the Tank bus across the river to Northern KY (this was in Cincinnati). I gave him the money. It was a slow night so later I ended up sitting at a cab stand for awhile and I saw him walking up and down the same street asking every single person for the 75 cents.
All those guys are liars including the "will work for food" idiots. They're merely collecting money for stuff they want. It's their job. Only they would never dream of giving you any of their money just because you want or even need it. Screw 'em.
| 984 |
Charpete67 Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:17:23am |
re: #981 Charpete67
he's still a coward and an ass
| 985 |
Killgore Trout Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:17:34am |
re: #982 Jimmah
Hmm, the UK is in for some tough times ahead.
| 986 |
wahabicorridor Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:17:48am |
re: #970 Kosh's Shadow
Rahm will make them an offer they can't refuse.
Chicago style.
Yep.
McCain said something this morning about not underestimating the WH and the dems ability to get this crap thru.
| 987 |
Truck Monkey Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:17:49am |
re: #974 Honorary Yooper
"As God as my witness, I thought Health Care could fly."
-Barack "Carlson" Obama
Excellent WKRP reference. There should be a prize for that.
| 988 |
turn Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:18:25am |
re: #968 realwest
I would be very interested in reading those emails if you care to shoot me a copy real.
| 989 |
Lincolntf Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:18:59am |
At 12:15, we'll get to see what the teleprompter thinks about Health Care. I can't wait.
| 992 |
NJDhockeyfan Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:19:56am |
re: #985 Killgore Trout
Hmm, the UK is in for some tough times ahead.
In more ways than one.
More Brit non-Muslims turning to Sharia courts to resolve civil disputes
| 993 |
BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:20:46am |
re: #987 Truck Monkey
Excellent WKRP reference. There should be a prize for that.
Love the WKRP ref. We'll see what happens...
| 994 |
MrSilverDragon Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:20:50am |
re: #991 buzzsawmonkey
Obama still hasn't done anything about lifting his own African relatives out of poverty. I wonder what his record on aid to Africa is?
Probably about the same as his record here in the U.S.
Zero.
| 995 |
redstateredneck Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:20:53am |
| 996 |
jaunte Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:20:54am |
Area Man Uninterested In Creating A Better Community Even Though This May Benefit Him In The Long Run
Sources said it was certain that 32-year-old man Geoff Ross would reap substantial benefits from devoting his time to the advancement of his native Illinois region. Yet he has squandered countless opportunities to do so by instead indulging in frivolous personal activities, such as reading books of the noneducational variety, exercising recreationally, and socializing."I'm thinking of taking a week to travel," Mr. Ross said to a friend recently, seemingly oblivious to the sort of individual sacrifices upon which great societies are formed. "It'll be nice to take some time for myself and just get away for a bit."
Many sources expressed puzzlement at Mr. Ross's unwillingness to help his government build roads, develop new technologies, or amass an invincible standing army, especially since he is physically able and university-trained.[Link: www.theonion.com...]
| 997 |
avanti Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:21:02am |
| 999 |
FrogMarch Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:21:09am |
re: #934 jcm
In my industry, silicon we shoot for 50% gross profit. We also plow a huge bit of that profit into R&D, silicon technology moves so fast if you don't your dead. This recent down turn our company has lost money several quarters in a row, mostly because we did not cut R&D, if we cut R&D we wouldn't be ready for the upturn. Our stock price has actually gone up because investors understand that.
We don't need no 'stinkin R & D. Somehow big daddy government will produce the desired outcomes we demand.
/the weft
| 1000 |
Killgore Trout Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:21:16am |
Murtha to the rescue?
US Rep. Murtha believes F22 deal can be reached
Congress and the Obama administration can still strike a deal on funding new F-22s made by Lockheed Martin Corp (LMT.N) despite a presidential threat to veto military spending legislation if the fighter jet program is not terminated, a senior lawmaker said on Thursday."It won't come to that (a veto). We will work it out," U.S. Representative John Murtha, the chairman of the House Appropriations Subcommittee on Defense, said at a briefing on the $636 billion blueprint for military priorities in 2010.
Murtha said he would reach out to the White House on the F-22, the premier U.S. fighter aircraft, and funding for other big-ticket programs supported by members of his committee that the administration would like to scale back or eliminate.
This includes money for a new VH-71 presidential helicopter led by Lockheed that the administration opposes. The subcommittee earlier in the day set aside $485 million for five aircraft.
"They know they need a new helicopter," Murtha said of the administration.
| 1001 |
BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:21:41am |
re: #982 Jimmah
The return of the National Front
[Link: www.hurryupharry.org...]
Whoa. hey jimmah! S'up? Flu still gone, I hope?
| 1002 |
Truck Monkey Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:22:03am |
re: #991 buzzsawmonkey
Obama still hasn't done anything about lifting his own African relatives out of poverty. I wonder what his record on aid to Africa is?
Now that he is spending Unicorn, Gumdrop, and Lollipop dollars I am sure he'll have a cargo plane full of printed green backs airlifted into Africa. All the while his nominal 1/2 brother George scrapes by on $10 a month. The Teleprompter Jesus is a fraud.
| 1003 |
Killgore Trout Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:22:09am |
re: #992 NJDhockeyfan
Take that with a grain of salt. Those are the sharia court's own numbers.
| 1004 |
lawhawk Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:22:16am |
re: #991 buzzsawmonkey
Obama has promised to double the aid to Africa, but I doubt it. In fact, President Bush provided more aid to African than Democrats ever did.
| 1007 |
SixDegrees Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:22:52am |
re: #902 NJDhockeyfan
Maybe they were just transsexuals. Think diversity!
Yeah, I'm sure it's hard keeping Rocky Horror Picture Show on the shelves over in Afghanistan.
| 1008 |
realwest Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:23:03am |
re: #962 iceweasel
Yep. Obama and others are totally going to beat the Blue Dogs this week. They have to.
Yeah, but Obama's gonna need all those street corner three card Monte skills he's had for a while now. HE doesn't elect them to Congress and trust me, if those Blue Dogs hadn't been hearing A LOT OF OPPOSITION from their voting constituency, they wouldn't have stood up to him.
If he pushes 'em too hard, they WILL push back.
| 1009 |
BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:23:03am |
re: #998 buzzsawmonkey
Orwell, in "Down and Out in Paris and London," observed that "blogging is a useless job--but then, many kinds of work are useless. Blogging is looked down upon merely because it is a job at which it is impossible to grow rich."
Updating that for the new media age. :)
More people should read orwell.
| 1010 |
BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:24:07am |
re: #1007 SixDegrees
Yeah, I'm sure it's hard keeping Rocky Horror Picture Show on the shelves over in Afghanistan.
Paging Dr. Frank al-Furter.
| 1011 |
Lincolntf Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:24:29am |
re: #992 NJDhockeyfan
"The Civitas report estimated that there were 85 Sharia councils in Britain. (ANI)'
Well Europe has such a rich history with Religious courts, what could possibly go wrong?
| 1012 |
wahabicorridor Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:25:25am |
re: #997 avanti
Nate Silver does a good analysis of the bills chances
Money quote
Any Democrat who votes against health care, moreover, can expect to be permanently shut off from the Obama-run DNC and from most or all grassroots fundraising drives, and many of them can probably expect a primary challenger.
| 1013 |
lawhawk Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:25:47am |
re: #1007 SixDegrees
What, you mean you haven't heard about the Ayatollah of Rock n'Rolla? The Mac Daddy of Muslims, Mullah Omar? /
| 1014 |
Macker Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:25:59am |
re: #1004 lawhawk
And do you really think Bush will get credit for it? Of course not...he was a Republican!
Oh...Good Morning Lizards!
| 1015 |
jcm Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:26:21am |
re: #983 dwells38
I never give to beggers. When I was young back in the '80s I worked for a short time as a cab driver. I was approached by a man asking for 75 cents so he could take the Tank bus across the river to Northern KY (this was in Cincinnati). I gave him the money. It was a slow night so later I ended up sitting at a cab stand for awhile and I saw him walking up and down the same street asking every single person for the 75 cents.
All those guys are liars including the "will work for food" idiots. They're merely collecting money for stuff they want. It's their job. Only they would never dream of giving you any of their money just because you want or even need it. Screw 'em.
My dad was the Fire / Police Chaplin in his area. The local churches realized they were being scammed by people looking for handouts. The churches instead of handing out money, put it in a fund. My dad administered the fund. When people came to churches looking for help, they sent them to my dad. The provision of the fund was no cash, they would buy food, gas, pay rent, they would take care of the problem, but no cash would be handed out.
9 of 10 people coming to my dad for help when they found out there was no cash declined the help.
9 out of 10.
| 1016 |
Killgore Trout Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:26:34am |
Right wing extremists in Mongolia...
The Neo-Nazis of Mongolia: Swastikas Against China
In the Mongolian capital Ulan Bator, "Shoot the Chinese" is spray-painted on a brick wall near a movie theater. A pair of swastikas and the words "Killer Boys ...! Danger!" can be read on a fence in an outlying neighborhood of yurt dwellings. Graffiti like this, which can be found all over the city, is the work of Mongolia's neo-Nazis, an admittedly implausible but often intimidating, and occasionally violent, movement.
Ulan Bator is home to three ultra-nationalist groups claiming a combined membership of several thousand — a not insignificant number in a country of just 3 million people. They have adopted Nazi paraphernalia and dogma, and are vehemently anti-Chinese. One group, Blue Mongolia, has admitted to shaving the heads of local women found sleeping with Chinese men. Its leader was convicted last year of murdering his daughter's Mongolian boyfriend, who had merely studied in China.
| 1017 |
NJDhockeyfan Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:26:45am |
re: #1012 wahabicorridor
Any Democrat who votes against health care, moreover, can expect to be permanently shut off from the Obama-run DNC and from most or all grassroots fundraising drives, and many of them can probably expect a primary challenger.
New rap group?
| 1018 |
Vicious Babushka Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:27:14am |
re: #958 buzzsawmonkey
Alouette, try and look on the nominally bright side, which is that if nobody got the job, your not getting it is not necessarily any reflection on you, your skills, or your interview.
That may be the "bright side" but it won't help pay for my son's wedding.
However if they do decide to reopen the position I may have another chance, but it doesn't help much right now in this sucky economy even though some lizards (no names) like to sing "Happy days are here again"
I guess I will just have to wait for those millions of great jobs making and installing solar panels on all the great new cars that GM will start producing.
| 1019 |
Lincolntf Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:27:18am |
re: #1004 lawhawk
Just another fact that doesn't conform to Lefty stereotypes, so it gets flushed down the memory hole.
| 1020 |
Macker Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:27:39am |
re: #1008 realwest
I'll bet БХО wishes he could select every Congressional Representative and Senator.
| 1021 |
BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:28:27am |
| 1022 |
BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:28:27am |
| 1023 |
NJDhockeyfan Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:28:34am |
RoP news:
Gender violence translates into despicable crimes
Rawalpind police record shows 15 women killed in the name of honour, 14 raped, two thrown acid on, 15 physically tortured and over 70 kidnapped so far this year
| 1025 |
Truck Monkey Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:29:09am |
re: #1015 jcm
My dad was the Fire / Police Chaplin in his area. The local churches realized they were being scammed by people looking for handouts. The churches instead of handing out money, put it in a fund. My dad administered the fund. When people came to churches looking for help, they sent them to my dad. The provision of the fund was no cash, they would buy food, gas, pay rent, they would take care of the problem, but no cash would be handed out.
9 of 10 people coming to my dad for help when they found out there was no cash declined the help.
9 out of 10.
I have to admit that I am a beggar too. I think that the shame and stigma attached to those that feel it necessary to beg should be lifted. I should not feel ashamed to admit that I often beg for sex, and I would not go to the church to have that request filled.
//
| 1027 |
Charpete67 Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:30:08am |
re: #1023 NJDhockeyfan
RoP news:
We need to close GITMO so the world won't view us as barbaric...um, wait...let me rethink that...
| 1028 |
dwells38 Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:30:35am |
re: #1009 iceweasel
I read it years ago and should re-read it. He's a fantastic writer and social commentator, of course.
| 1029 |
MandyManners Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:30:44am |
re: #991 buzzsawmonkey
Obama still hasn't done anything about lifting his own African relatives out of poverty. I wonder what his record on aid to Africa is?
In August 2006, Senator Obama toured Kenya, his first trip to his father’s nation. Thousands of Kenyans welcomed him, international media followed wherever he went, and glowing stories flowed forth.
One spot he visited was the recently renamed Senator Obama Kogelo Secondary School in Nyang’oma-Kogelo, a village in equatorial western Kenya where Obama’s roots go deep: His father, Barack Sr., was born there. His 86-year-old step-grandmother, Sarah, still lives there in a brick shanty with a tin roof and no running water.
Almost exactly two years ago, Barack Obama visited the school built upon land that, decades ago, Obama’s grandfather donated. In anticipation of Obama’s visit, the school changed its name to honor the village’s most famous progeny, Barack Jr.
The school had only four classrooms. It lacked water, functioning bathrooms and even electricity. A third of its students were orphans. Its extreme need made Senator Obama’s speech there all the more riveting for the village residents.
“Hopefully, I can provide some assistance in the future to this school and all that it can be,” Obama said. Looking directly at the school’s principal, Yuanita Obiero, and her teachers, he added, “I know you are working very hard and struggling to bring up this school, but I have said I will assist the school, and I will do so.”
In the two years since, Obama has experienced a meteoric political rise, becoming the Democratic flag-bearer, authoring a best-seller and last year, with his wife, Michelle, earning $4.2 million. He bought a luxury home. Last year, he gave $240,000 to charities.
But apparently not to the Senator Obama Kogelo School. “Senator Obama has not honored the promises he gave me when we met in 2006 and in his earlier letter to the school,” Principal Obiero has told the London-based, conservative tabloid EveningStandard. “He has not given us even one shilling. But we still have hope.”
SNIP
| 1030 |
BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:31:22am |
re: #1024 buzzsawmonkey
And rather stupidly, if I may say so.
You may, and you can.
Your bad humour here and over-literalism, and your desire to call my good-natured comment 'stupid', reveals quite a bit about you.
| 1031 |
BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:31:31am |
re: #1024 buzzsawmonkey
And rather stupidly, if I may say so. Blogging is a "job" for very few people; for most, it is an amusement. I am sure that some few people who work at making their blogs remunerative do in fact do well, whether from their blogs or from things that their blogs lead to.
There is no parallel with begging.
I will, however, agree that more people should read Orwell's work over and above the standards of 1984 and Animal Farm.
Homage to Catalonia is a great read & a welcome antidote to the popular romanticisation of the Spanish Republic in the Civil War.
| 1032 |
Truck Monkey Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:31:46am |
re: #1018 Alouette
That may be the "bright side" but it won't help pay for my son's wedding.
However if they do decide to reopen the position I may have another chance, but it doesn't help much right now in this sucky economy even though some lizards (no names) like to sing "Happy days are here again"
I guess I will just have to wait for those millions of great jobs making and installing solar panels on all the great new cars that GM will start producing.
I will be purchasing something at the your mall. Looks like a great site you've put together.
| 1033 |
yma o hyd Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:32:16am |
While it is certainly wise to check up on what the fascist in the various countries are up to, e.g. in the UK, there is the danger that one loses sight of the work of the legal goverment, which is cutting back on our civil liberties wherever possible.
This is far more frightening, for example:
Police given powers to enter homes and tear down anti-Olympics posters during 2012 Games
| 1034 |
BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:32:24am |
re: #1028 dwells38
I read it years ago and should re-read it. He's a fantastic writer and social commentator, of course.
He's really terrific!
| 1035 |
Pianobuff Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:32:43am |
Good morning lizards. 3 weeks and (almost) 2 days smoke-free.
Boy would I like a drag.
Oh well.
| 1036 |
Macker Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:33:16am |
re: #1029 MandyManners
But apparently not to the Senator Obama Kogelo School. “Senator Obama has not honored the promises he gave me when we met in 2006 and in his earlier letter to the school,” Principal Obiero has told the London-based, conservative tabloid EveningStandard. “He has not given us even
one shillingCHANGE. But we still have hope.”
SNIP
There, fixed that for ya!
| 1037 |
Truck Monkey Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:33:52am |
re: #1035 Pianobuff
Good morning lizards. 3 weeks and (almost) 2 days smoke-free.
Boy would I like a drag.
Oh well.
Congratulations! What's your secret?
| 1038 |
midwestgak Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:33:58am |
re: #1035 Pianobuff
Good for you! Remember WHY you decided to quit.
| 1039 |
doppelganglander Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:34:04am |
re: #909 Alouette
I am not a happy camper this morning, Lizards. I just heard about the job I interviewed for. Not only did I not get the job, THE JOB ORDER HAS BEEN CANCELLED so that means nobody got the job.
I am so freaking bummed now. And my son keeps asking me for money for his wedding.
Please buy stuff at the Zionist Mall. It is my only source of income right now. We have a lot of good stuff from Israel so you would be helping me out and supporting Israel too.
I'm sorry to hear it. I hope things turn around for you soon.
| 1040 |
yma o hyd Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:34:07am |
re: #1031 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey
Homage to Catalonia is a great read & a welcome antidote to the popular romanticisation of the Spanish Republic in the Civil War.
It is indeed - and describes the work of Stalin's henchmen at a time when lots of fellow travelelrs praised Stalin to the high heavens.
| 1041 |
KansasMom Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:34:10am |
re: #1035 Pianobuff
Good morning lizards. 3 weeks and (almost) 2 days smoke-free.
Boy would I like a drag.
Oh well.
3 weeks is quite an accomplishment! Keep it up!
| 1042 |
Pianobuff Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:35:01am |
re: #1037 Truck Monkey
Congratulations! What's your secret?
Not having a supply of cigarettes, not being around anyone with a supply, and not buying any.
Otherwise I'm sure I'd be smoking again...
| 1043 |
Truck Monkey Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:36:23am |
re: #1042 Pianobuff
Not having a supply of cigarettes, not being around anyone with a supply, and not buying any.
Otherwise I'm sure I'd be smoking again...
Cold turkey? Three weeks and the addictive chems are out of your system and your lungs are starting to clear. If you went back to it now it would be by force of habit. Do you feel better?
| 1045 |
yma o hyd Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:36:43am |
re: #1035 Pianobuff
Good morning lizards. 3 weeks and (almost) 2 days smoke-free.
Boy would I like a drag.
Oh well.
Well done!
Hang in there and think of all the money you've already saved!
| 1046 |
realwest Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:36:58am |
re: #1012 wahabicorridor
Don't know what's wrong with LGF, but the quote function didn't work. But see my #108; who the fuck is Obama gonna get to run against them in the primaries if in fact the reason they are opposing it is because their constituents - to whom they owe their jobs a lot more than they do Obama - have let them know LOUD AND CLEAR that they oppose Obamacare?
Obama's on really thin ice here - he can threaten 'em and he can "sweeten" that threat with money from the DNC, but if he pushes it too hard they WILL push back against Obama, and HARD, TOO!
Start to look for media leaks by annonymous sources real soon now.
| 1047 |
BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:37:11am |
re: #1031 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey
Homage to Catalonia is a great read & a welcome antidote to the popular romanticisation of the Spanish Republic in the Civil War.
Homage to Catalonia is brilliant. I'd also recommend his essay "politics and the english language" to everyone. It's a brilliant essay.
| 1048 |
Lincolntf Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:37:14am |
re: #1029 MandyManners
I assume I'm in the minority on this one, but it wouldn't bother me a bit if the President moved his relatives out of third-world poverty and to America. I have to assume that most if not all of his rels want to live here. I know they'd be "skipping in line" and that it would absolutely be special treatment, but there's something off about the President of the United States having relatives living in such squalor. They could make up some "security" reason to justify it if they had to, but I bet most Americans would give O. a pass even if they didn't.
| 1049 |
pingjockey Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:37:21am |
re: #1042 Pianobuff
That's it right there. I also went and cleaned up every butt I could find because I busted myself the other day fishing under the truck seat for a butt just to get a fix!
| 1051 |
doppelganglander Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:38:11am |
re: #1026 buzzsawmonkey
In the meantime, I've bookmarked the Mall and am trying to figure out who I know that I can buy something for.
I've got my eye on the Roman glass cross...
| 1052 |
Pianobuff Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:38:34am |
re: #1043 Truck Monkey
Cold turkey? Three weeks and the addictive chems are out of your system and your lungs are starting to clear. If you went back to it now it would be by force of habit. Do you feel better?
Can breathe deeper for sure, but have been experiencing intermittent headaches and sleeplessness which I'm hoping will pass. As a result, the energy level is a little low. Starting to put on some pounds as a result. Need to work out now but just a little listless still.
| 1054 |
Truck Monkey Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:39:20am |
re: #1046 realwest
Don't know what's wrong with LGF, but the quote function didn't work. But see my #108; who the fuck is Obama gonna get to run against them in the primaries if in fact the reason they are opposing it is because their constituents - to whom they owe their jobs a lot more than they do Obama - have let them know LOUD AND CLEAR that they oppose Obamacare?
Obama's on really thin ice here - he can threaten 'em and he can "sweeten" that threat with money from the DNC, but if he pushes it too hard they WILL push back against Obama, and HARD, TOO!
Start to look for media leaks by annonymous sources real soon now.
When the chinks in the Messiah armor appear more and more moderate and blue dogs are going to start pushing back, influencing a large chunk of the electorate in the process.
| 1055 |
pingjockey Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:39:26am |
Watching FNC...dueling health care ads are on. One for obamacare and one against. Fine print to small to see who is paying for them!
| 1056 |
BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:40:20am |
re: #1053 buzzsawmonkey
"What you see is nothing. I have a Balinese dancing girl tattooed on my thigh."
--Philip Marlowe, "The Big Sleep"
Upding for one of my favourite author's best books. Adore Chandler.
But I don't want to see your thigh. :( Sorry.
| 1057 |
Macker Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:40:21am |
re: #1046 realwest
Start to look for media leaks by annonymous sources real soon now.
About his nirth certifikat, hmmm?
/
| 1058 |
MandyManners Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:41:02am |
re: #1048 Lincolntf
I assume I'm in the minority on this one, but it wouldn't bother me a bit if the President moved his relatives out of third-world poverty and to America. I have to assume that most if not all of his rels want to live here. I know they'd be "skipping in line" and that it would absolutely be special treatment, but there's something off about the President of the United States having relatives living in such squalor. They could make up some "security" reason to justify it if they had to, but I bet most Americans would give O. a pass even if they didn't.
I wouldn't mind that at all. In fact, I'd be an enthusiastic supporter of such a thing.
FCBBHO, bring your brother to America.
| 1059 |
realwest Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:41:26am |
re: #1018 Alouette
Um, I don't intend to be mean when I say this, but here in the US, it's almost always the brides family that pays for the wedding. Seriously. And if you're personal financial situation won't let you pay what you need to or want to, hell let 'em have a smaller weddding or elope.
I really, honestly don't think you should get so upset about this PRIMARILY because of your son's upcoming nuptuals.
Just saying, as a friend...
| 1060 |
VegasRick Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:41:35am |
re: #1029 MandyManners
Principal Obiero has told the London-based, conservative tabloid EveningStandard. “He has not given us even one shilling. But we still have hope'n change!.”
SNIP
| 1062 |
Truck Monkey Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:42:57am |
re: #1058 MandyManners
I wouldn't mind that at all. In fact, I'd be an enthusiastic supporter of such a thing.
FCBBHO, bring your brother to America.
We might get a pretty good show out of it. Billy did wonders for Jimmahs Presidency. I can picture it now. George Obamabeer.
| 1063 |
Mad Al-Jaffee Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:43:00am |
re: #993 iceweasel
I've probably said it before, but Bailey was much hotter than Jennifer.
| 1064 |
yma o hyd Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:43:08am |
re: #1050 buzzsawmonkey
Here's a philosophical question: do you give a beggar money, knowing there is a good chance his story is false, and also a good chance he will spend it on drink or drugs?
Maybe.
What is a beggar doing? He is selling a moment of compassion. Perhaps he is an unworthy vehicle for the product, but we've all bought things we needed, or felt we needed at the time, from salesmen we found obnoxious.
Yes, the beggar may well "misuse" the money, but once given to him the money is his to do with as he wills. That's free enterprise; that's capitalism; and that's also respecting the other person as someone entitled to make their own decisions..
It is an abasing thing to ask help from someone else; perhaps not quite akin to the abasement of selling/renting one's body for another person's pleasure, but selling/renting your soul on a small-transaction basis cannot be a pleasurable or uplifting experience, even if habit inures you to it somewhat.
The beggar is saying, "for the price of a small coin, I will sell you the ability to exercise compassion; to exercise pity; to inwardly thank G-d that your station in life is so much better than mine."
Is it a scam--or is the beggar really offering an incredible spiritual deal at a low, low price?
Maybe.
I'd go with 'maybe' ...
Because what he also sells is absolution from really having to address the problem why he is sitting there. For a small coin you buy yourself free of actually having to do something, like running a soup kitchen or a night shelter, or getting your local council to provide day centres.
Cheap at that price, isn't it, that feeling of 'doing good', for half a minute.
| 1065 |
midwestgak Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:43:09am |
re: #1052 Pianobuff
Can breathe deeper for sure, but have been experiencing intermittent headaches and sleeplessness which I'm hoping will pass. As a result, the energy level is a little low. Starting to put on some pounds as a result. Need to work out now but just a little listless still.
You have severed your relationship with tobacco. Any relationship that ends can cause what you have described.
| 1066 |
realwest Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:43:30am |
Hey, are any of y'all having trouble with the Bold, Italics, Strike and quote buttons?
Seems like I have to "blue" the text and then hit Bold, for example, then page rolls up on me, then get it down and hit Bold again before it works. And when I tried to quote another poster'scomment, all I got was zilch!
| 1067 |
NJDhockeyfan Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:43:40am |
Video of the day.
Missouri Congressman Jeered by Crowd as He Presents Obama Health Plan - Video 7/20/09
Here is video that ought to make President Obama and the Democrats very uncomfortable. It shows Democrat Rep. Russ Carnahan of Missouri, holding a forum in St. Louis to explain President Obama's Government Health Care Plan. As Carnahan speaks, he is repeatedly laughed at and jeered by the crowd as he says the ObamaCare Plan will actually help reduce health care spending, and that one-half the cost can be paid for by savings the plan will produce. At the end, one member of the audience shouts out to Carnahan, "if it's so good, why doesn't Congress have to be on it!"
| 1069 |
Charpete67 Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:44:36am |
Obama not familiar with provision in House bill that would outlaw private insurance..he hasn't read the damn thing either and this is one of the biggest negatives he has had to deal with regarding his "vision" (I use "vision" since "plans" are typically written down somewhere and presented to the electorate)
audio - [Link: www.realclearpolitics.com...]
| 1070 |
BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:44:59am |
re: #1063 Mad Al-Jaffee
I've probably said it before, but Bailey was much hotter than Jennifer.
God, I completely agree. Heh.
| 1071 |
MandyManners Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:45:04am |
re: #1046 realwest
Don't know what's wrong with LGF, but the quote function didn't work. But see my #108; who the fuck is Obama gonna get to run against them in the primaries if in fact the reason they are opposing it is because their constituents - to whom they owe their jobs a lot more than they do Obama - have let them know LOUD AND CLEAR that they oppose Obamacare?
Obama's on really thin ice here - he can threaten 'em and he can "sweeten" that threat with money from the DNC, but if he pushes it too hard they WILL push back against Obama, and HARD, TOO!
Start to look for media leaks by annonymous sources real soon now.
It didn't work on my post about Baldilocks. In fact, none of the formatting buttons are working correctly.
| 1072 |
Mad Al-Jaffee Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:45:23am |
re: #983 dwells38
I don't give to beggars and If someone asks me for change for a ten or twenty I ignore them. There are too many small time con men who know how to con you out of your money by asking for change then pretending you gave them too little.
| 1073 |
jcm Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:45:33am |
Obamacare...
Obama "Not Familiar" With Key Provision In Health Care Bill
During the call, a blogger from Maine said he kept running into an Investors Business Daily article that claimed Section 102 of the House health legislation would outlaw private insurance. He asked: "Is this true? Will people be able to keep their insurance and will insurers be able to write new policies even though H.R. 3200 is passed?" President Obama replied: "You know, I have to say that I am not familiar with the provision you are talking about."
Would you buy a used car from this man?
Are
So
Fucked
| 1074 |
yma o hyd Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:45:54am |
re: #1052 Pianobuff
Can breathe deeper for sure, but have been experiencing intermittent headaches and sleeplessness which I'm hoping will pass. As a result, the energy level is a little low. Starting to put on some pounds as a result. Need to work out now but just a little listless still.
If you can afford the time (and have access!) - do go for regular swims! Proper ones, like training for a competition!
Its good for everything which ails you right now - and will not only increase your fitness but also increase your endorphines, so you'll feel wonderful.
(I do know whereof I speak - I was a two-packs-a-day lady!)
| 1075 |
MandyManners Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:46:25am |
re: #1066 realwest
Hey, are any of y'all having trouble with the Bold, Italics, Strike and quote buttons?
Seems like I have to "blue" the text and then hit Bold, for example, then page rolls up on me, then get it down and hit Bold again before it works. And when I tried to quote another poster'scomment, all I got was zilch!
Yo.
| 1076 |
Mad Al-Jaffee Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:46:48am |
| 1077 |
redstateredneck Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:47:19am |
re: #1042 Pianobuff
Not having a supply of cigarettes, not being around anyone with a supply, and not buying any.
Otherwise I'm sure I'd be smoking again...
You can do it! Hell, if I could quit, anybody can! I did chew nicorette for around three years, but I finally got off of that, too.
| 1078 |
yma o hyd Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:47:31am |
re: #1061 wahabicorridor
good lord!
Yeah - another fine example of how a neostalinist government works in practice ...
| 1079 |
JacksonTn Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:47:47am |
re: #1050 buzzsawmonkey
buzz .. do you remember the guy that the movie Happyness (not sure of the name) was made from his life? Will Smith was the lead actor ... anyway ... the guy was on a show once and said that people should not give to people begging on the streets ... he said it encourages them to continue to do so ... he was on the streets for a long time with his son ... it is a great story ...
I still give to people sometimes but usually if it is a person with children begging ... the people who are regulars on the same street corners all the time I do not give to ... there are missions and charities that will help if people would go to them ...
| 1080 |
Lincolntf Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:47:54am |
re: #1073 jcm
"You know, I have to say that I am not familiar with the provision you are talking about."
"But I do know that it's absolutely vital, whatever it is..."
| 1081 |
VegasRick Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:47:56am |
re: #1067 NJDhockeyfan
Video of the day.
Missouri Congressman Jeered by Crowd as He Presents Obama Health Plan - Video 7/20/09
That is good! I noticed the gal "signing" for the deaf. One question, is there a "sign" for "I know this motherfucker is lieing his ass off"?
| 1082 |
wahabicorridor Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:48:21am |
"Mario" posted a Dennis Prager piece in the spinoffs that is a must read.
Inherent to all left-wing thought is a totalitarian temptation. People on the left know that not only are their values morally superior to conservative values, but that they themselves are morally superior to conservatives. Thus, for example, the former head of the Democratic Party, Howard Dean, could say in all seriousness, “In contradistinction to the Republicans, we don't think children ought to go to bed hungry at night.”
Therefore, the morally superior have the right, indeed the duty, to impose their values on the rest of us: what light bulbs we use, what cars we drive, what we may ask a prospective employee, how we may discipline our children, and, of course,
| 1083 |
doppelganglander Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:48:46am |
re: #1073 jcm
Obamacare...
Obama "Not Familiar" With Key Provision In Health Care Bill
Would you buy a used car from this man?
Are
So
Fucked
He knows perfectly well that the answer to the question is no. He just doesn't want to admit it because surveys show the majority of people are very happy with their own insurance. If they realized they would not be allowed to keep their current coverage, it would probably run about 70% opposed to Obamacare.
| 1084 |
Killgore Trout Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:48:49am |
Seven Fires: Grilling the Argentine Way
A trailblazing chef reinvents the art of cooking over fire.
Gloriously inspired recipes push the boundaries of live-fired cuisine in this primal yet sophisticated cookbook introducing the incendiary dishes of South America's biggest culinary star. Chef Francis Mallmann—born in Patagonia and trained in France's top restaurants—abandoned the fussy fine dining scene for the more elemental experience of cooking with fire.
...
The seven fires of the title refer to a series of grilling techniques that have been singularly adapted for the home cook. So you can cook Signature Mallmann dishes—like Whole Boneless Ribeye with Chimichuri; Salt-Crusted Striped Bass; Whole Roasted Andean Pumpkin with Mint and Goat Cheese Salad; and desserts such as Dulce de Leche Pancakes—indoors or out in any season. Evocative photographs showcase both the recipes and the exquisite beauty of Mallmann's home turf in Patagonia, Buenos Aires, and rural Uruguay. Seven Fires is a must for any griller ready to explore food's next frontier.
| 1085 |
MandyManners Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:49:13am |
Why won't FCBBHO bring his family to America? Is his not doing so somehow saying that they're better off in poverty than in America?
| 1086 |
BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:49:18am |
re: #1068 buzzsawmonkey
That's all right--I wasn't offering you a chance to see it.
Yes, Chandler's great. If you haven't got it already, try and find a copy of "Killer in the Rain," which is a collection of the short stories he later used as component parts for some of his novels. It is fascinating to see what he did to expand "Killer" into parts of "The Big Sleep."
I haven't got that. I may check it out, thanks. The extraordinary thing about Chandler is that he can write really fantastic books that don't really come together in terms of a plot--like the Big Sleep. One is just carried along by the force of his writing and characterisations. This makes a lot of sense if parts of a novel like The Big Sleep were originally from short stories.
Have you read Cain or Thompson? I'm a bit of a fan of noir.
| 1087 |
redstateredneck Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:49:28am |
re: #1067 NJDhockeyfan
Video of the day.
Missouri Congressman Jeered by Crowd as He Presents Obama Health Plan - Video 7/20/09
HAHA! The "show me" state (land of my youth).
| 1088 |
Truck Monkey Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:49:58am |
re: #1085 MandyManners
Why won't FCBBHO bring his family to America? Is his not doing so somehow saying that they're better off in poverty than in America?
Maybe Barry knows what's coming?
| 1089 |
Charpete67 Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:50:36am |
re: #1067 NJDhockeyfan
I wish the Dems the best of luck selling this back home...wouldn't these be supporters of his as well?...
| 1090 |
redstateredneck Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:50:51am |
re: #1072 Mad Al-Jaffee
I don't give to beggars and If someone asks me for change for a ten or twenty I ignore them. There are too many small time con men who know how to con you out of your money by asking for change then pretending you gave them too little.
The short change scam was the one of the first things my dad told me to be aware of when I went to work as a waitress in my teen years.
| 1091 |
jcm Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:51:24am |
re: #1050 buzzsawmonkey
Giving money, so they can continue destructive behavior is not compassion, it's enabling, it's assisting in a person continued descent into hell on earth.
Buy a meal is better, but allows them to use what money they have to continue their destruction.
Most compassionate is to require something in return for aid. We will house you, feed you, get you on your feet, in exchange we expect something in return. A change in behavior. Only in this way is the individuals destruction halted, the negative impact on society is also decreased.
| 1092 |
Pianobuff Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:51:37am |
Interesting piece in the Wall Street Journal...
The U.S. Steers Left on Honduras
When Hugo Chávez makes a personal appeal to Washington for help, as he did 11 days ago, it raises serious questions about the signals that President Barack Obama is sending to the hemisphere's most dangerous dictator.
At issue is Mr. Chávez's determination to restore deposed Honduran president Manuel Zelaya to power through multilateral pressure. His phone call to a State Department official showed that his campaign was not going well and that he thought he could get U.S. help.
This is not good news for the region. The Venezuelan may feel that his aims have enough support from the U.S. and the Organization of American States (OAS) that he would be justified in forcing Mr. Zelaya on Honduras by supporting a violent overthrow of the current government. That he has reason to harbor such a view is yet another sign that the Obama administration is on the wrong side of history...
| 1093 |
midwestgak Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:51:38am |
re: #1090 redstateredneck
The short change scam was the one of the first things my dad told me to be aware of when I went to work as a waitress in my teen years.
Good dad.
| 1094 |
wahabicorridor Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:51:47am |
re: #1079 JacksonTn
When I worked in DC there was a guy who was a regular panhandler. Same spot every day. Took the bus to his spot in the morning and back to wherever in the evening. Just like a regular job. Around the Christmas holidays I always gave him $20.
He spent the holidays in Florida with his family.
I thought the whole thing was hilarious.
| 1095 |
Kosh's Shadow Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:51:47am |
re: #1010 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey
Paging Dr. Frank al-Furter.
I don't know if he wants to deal with us Rif-Raf.
| 1096 |
BlueCanuck Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:52:05am |
re: #1064 yma o hyd
I'd go with 'maybe' ...
Because what he also sells is absolution from really having to address the problem why he is sitting there. For a small coin you buy yourself free of actually having to do something, like running a soup kitchen or a night shelter, or getting your local council to provide day centres.
Cheap at that price, isn't it, that feeling of 'doing good', for half a minute.
There are very few homeless people I feel sorry for. Yes some may be drug addicts and alcoholics. But there are programs out there that will help them, and get them off the street. Most of them are there by choice. As I said there are a few that I feel sorry for, those are the mentally unsound that need medication. You can tell those ones. They ramble, rant, and rave. Talk to you like you are not there, or say strange things in response to your questions. Generally those ones aren't the ones asking for spare change.
There was a scandal a couple years ago in Toronto. Famous panhandler was known as the "shaky lady". Newspaper did an expose on her and it was discovered that she lived with her son, who had a job. From just watching a week the reporter figured that she was taking in about a couple grand a month.
| 1097 |
Nevergiveup Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:52:06am |
Deputy Prime Minister Dan Meridor said Tuesday that U.S. calls for a freeze on West Bank settlement construction run counter to past agreements between the two nations and could undermine U.S. credibility.
Speaking to foreign reporters, Meridor said it was important for past understandings to be honored. "Otherwise, it would raise questions about the legitimacy of future agreements," he said.
[Link: www.haaretz.com...]
I'd say so, but then again Obama makes up his own rules on the fly?
| 1098 |
BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:52:12am |
re: #1085 MandyManners
Why won't FCBBHO bring his family to America? Is his not doing so somehow saying that they're better off in poverty than in America?
I've got 'family' in lots of places, as do most Americans I'd bet. Why should Obama bring every family member (people who he barely knows) to america?
| 1100 |
realwest Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:52:19am |
re: #1057 Macker
About his nirth certifikat, hmmm?
/
No, about his strong arm tactics (Rahm Emmanuel, Chicago style) against fellow democrats to follow HIS lead, and not the wishes of their constitutents.
| 1101 |
Lincolntf Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:52:28am |
re: #1085 MandyManners
I have no idea why he doesn't. Must be the potential political fallout (which I don't think would be that bad at all) or he just doesn't want to be responsible for them.
I really feel bad for the brother George who seems to be living a nightmarish existence in a shanty town. He must have thought that having a brother in the White House would change his lot in life. Not so much.
| 1102 |
Nevergiveup Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:52:57am |
re: #1092 Pianobuff
Interesting piece in the Wall Street Journal...
The U.S. Steers Left on Honduras
When Hugo Chávez makes a personal appeal to Washington for help, as he did 11 days ago, it raises serious questions about the signals that President Barack Obama is sending to the hemisphere's most dangerous dictator.
At issue is Mr. Chávez's determination to restore deposed Honduran president Manuel Zelaya to power through multilateral pressure. His phone call to a State Department official showed that his campaign was not going well and that he thought he could get U.S. help.
This is not good news for the region. The Venezuelan may feel that his aims have enough support from the U.S. and the Organization of American States (OAS) that he would be justified in forcing Mr. Zelaya on Honduras by supporting a violent overthrow of the current government. That he has reason to harbor such a view is yet another sign that the Obama administration is on the wrong side of history...
Kinda makes you wonder ha? Well some of us know where Obama stands and it is not with all our past friends
| 1103 |
redstateredneck Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:53:24am |
re: #1093 midwestgak
Good dad.
He also taught me how to properly count change. Count up from the amount of the ticket to the amount they gave you and NEVER put the money in the cash register until they have their change and are walking out the door.
| 1104 |
Son of the Black Dog Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:54:27am |
re: #1073 jcm
Obamacare...
Obama "Not Familiar" With Key Provision In Health Care Bill ...
Not just ignorance - Willful ignorance.
| 1105 |
Pianobuff Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:54:50am |
Yma, Redstate, Midwest and anyone I may have missed... Thanks for the encouraging words!
| 1106 |
solomonpanting Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:55:21am |
The thrill is gone...
| 1107 |
Charpete67 Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:55:56am |
Fish are shrinking in response to global warming
[Link: www.breitbart.com...]
I thought cold water did that...
| 1109 |
BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:56:35am |
re: #1100 realwest
No, about his strong arm tactics (Rahm Emmanuel, Chicago style) against fellow democrats to follow HIS lead, and not the wishes of their constitutents.
Sadly, it's normal for the party machinery to strong-arm anyone who gets out of line.
I'm not saying this is a good thing, btw, but Bush and the GOP excelled at it also.
It's not "chicago", it's DC.
Rail against it and I'll join you, but let's not pretend it's something Obama invented.
| 1111 |
MrSilverDragon Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:57:47am |
re: #1090 redstateredneck
The short change scam was the one of the first things my dad told me to be aware of when I went to work as a waitress in my teen years.
I remember, back in my retail days, when someone came in and tried to give me a $1 bill with the corners cut and replaced with the corners of a $20. When I asked why this "customer" thought I was stupid enough to believe that Washington was on the $20, he hightailed it out of the store. I don't know whatever became of that, as that was handed over to my manager at the time.
The most entertaining theft I caught in action was a guy trying to steal a gospel CD from the music store where I was working... I had this person if he had heard of "Thou shalt not steal."
| 1112 |
midwestgak Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:57:48am |
re: #1105 Pianobuff
Yma, Redstate, Midwest and anyone I may have missed... Thanks for the encouraging words!
You can call me gak.
| 1113 |
Nevergiveup Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:57:50am |
| 1114 |
Son of the Black Dog Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:57:57am |
re: #1085 MandyManners
Why won't FCBBHO bring his family to America? Is his not doing so somehow saying that they're better off in poverty than in America?
Nobody's going to nuke Kenya.
| 1115 |
dwells38 Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:58:00am |
re: #1072 Mad Al-Jaffee
I don't give to beggars and If someone asks me for change for a ten or twenty I ignore them. There are too many small time con men who know how to con you out of your money by asking for change then pretending you gave them too little.
Yes it's merely street hustling. It's their right to trade their time that way if they want to and it's yours and my right to ignore them. When I see some begger on the street I do not feel sorry for them. I sometimes wonder at the circumstances (personality flaws, criminal entanglements, destroyed relationships) that may have landed them there but I don't feel as though it's my responsibility to help them.
If I want to help someone I look to my family and friends first. If my brother-in-law loses his job I may need to help my sister's family. I can't be handing money out to strangers.
And too others in my family are dysfunctional in the ways I described parenthetically above so if I want to help effed up people who will probably blow it on drugs, gambling or drink I'll start with them.
| 1116 |
yma o hyd Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:58:18am |
re: #1096 BlueCanuck
Yes - we had a similar report about someone here in Cardiff.
People have been warned here, by charities for the homeless, not to give money to beggars because they will spend it on drugs. Its well documented, some back streets even in the middle of town are covered with syringes every morning.
They only ones I do give to are the buskers - especially when they genuinely play good stuff!
| 1117 |
capitalist piglet Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:58:45am |
re: #1091 jcm
Giving money, so they can continue destructive behavior is not compassion, it's enabling, it's assisting in a person continued descent into hell on earth.
Buy a meal is better, but allows them to use what money they have to continue their destruction.
Most compassionate is to require something in return for aid. We will house you, feed you, get you on your feet, in exchange we expect something in return. A change in behavior. Only in this way is the individuals destruction halted, the negative impact on society is also decreased.
About fifteen years ago, I was playing a gig at the Westin Hotel in downtown Seattle. I had to go into the ladies room to change clothes, and while I was there, a young woman remarked that she liked the dress I was wearing.
I explained what I was doing there, and to be courteous, I asked her what she did for a living. In a shockingly casual, cheerful, off-the-cuff way, she said, "I'm a panhandler. I like it!"
I never gave money to anyone on the street again (though there is a favorite of mine who hangs out in Bellevue with a sign that says, "Why lie? Need money for beer.")...I give it to organizations instead.
| 1118 |
BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:59:10am |
re: #1111 MrSilverDragon
I remember, back in my retail days, when someone came in and tried to give me a $1 bill with the corners cut and replaced with the corners of a $20. When I asked why this "customer" thought I was stupid enough to believe that Washington was on the $20, he hightailed it out of the store. I don't know whatever became of that, as that was handed over to my manager at the time.
Everyone knows that Washington is on the $25 bill.
/
| 1119 |
wahabicorridor Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:59:24am |
| 1120 |
midwestgak Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:59:26am |
| 1121 |
Nevergiveup Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:59:53am |
| 1122 |
Ward Cleaver Tue, Jul 21, 2009 8:59:54am |
re: #1073 jcm
Obamacare...
Obama "Not Familiar" With Key Provision In Health Care Bill
Would you buy a used car from this man?
Are
So
Fucked
The longer that program gets stalemated, the less chance it has of passing, as people become more skeptical with each passing day. 0bama's going to blow all his political capital by stressing how "urgent" all his socialist schemes are, and end up as the president who cried, "Wolf!".
| 1123 |
Ward Cleaver Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:00:23am |
re: #1107 Charpete67
Fish are shrinking in response to global warming
[Link: www.breitbart.com...]
I thought cold water did that...
It's only the Costanza fish.
| 1126 |
doppelganglander Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:01:32am |
re: #1096 BlueCanuck
For all I know, this may have been the story that started this discussion, but if you haven't seen it, it certainly illustrates the problem:
She was homeless with 3 kids; a kind soul was ready to help, and then . . .
| 1127 |
Dianna Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:01:32am |
re: #1115 dwells38
Yes it's merely street hustling. It's their right to trade their time that way if they want to and it's yours and my right to ignore them. When I see some begger on the street I do not feel sorry for them. I sometimes wonder at the circumstances (personality flaws, criminal entanglements, destroyed relationships) that may have landed them there but I don't feel as though it's my responsibility to help them.
If I want to help someone I look to my family and friends first. If my brother-in-law loses his job I may need to help my sister's family. I can't be handing money out to strangers.
And too others in my family are dysfunctional in the ways I described parenthetically above so if I want to help effed up people who will probably blow it on drugs, gambling or drink I'll start with them.
I'm here to tell you that giving cash to a beggar is a dreadful mistake. There's a really astonishing number of agencies out there trying to help these people - and please don't buy the "Oh, there are so many needs, we can't meet them all!" rhetoric - doing everything but taking people by their shoulders and begging, "Let us help you!"
All you're doing by giving them cash is enabling the problem.
| 1128 |
realwest Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:01:34am |
re: #1068 buzzsawmonkey
Hey buzz - if you haven't already done so (and I suspect you have) y'all ought to read some of Dashiel Hammett's works. He INVENTED the Hard boiled detective (according to none other than Chandler himself) and in point of fact, Hammett WAS a Private Investigator in S.F. before he started writing great novels. In fact, his book "The Continental Op" was based on - and of course fictionalized - his experiences at the Continental Detective Agency which was based in San Francisco!
Just the most clean, sparse - elegant writing around.
Read, also, The Maltese Falcon - read, not watch the movie (which is also excellent!).
| 1129 |
Pianobuff Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:01:46am |
re: #1109 iceweasel
Sadly, it's normal for the party machinery to strong-arm anyone who gets out of line.
I'm not saying this is a good thing, btw, but Bush and the GOP excelled at it also.
It's not "chicago", it's DC.
Rail against it and I'll join you, but let's not pretend it's something Obama invented.
Would be interested in your take on this. (The Liberal Suicide March).
Brook's contention is that liberal Congressional Dems are running all over Obama and he's too weak to do anything about it (at least that's the conclusion I'm drawing). Is Brooks right, or is Brooks (who has been very supportive and fond of Obama for a long time) trying to rationalize his loyalty to Obama in a time where he perhaps views incoming policy as being far to the left of his liking? What do you think?
| 1130 |
jcm Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:02:26am |
re: #1122 Ward Cleaver
The longer that program gets stalemated, the less chance it has of passing, as people become more skeptical with each passing day. 0bama's going to blow all his political capital by stressing how "urgent" all his socialist schemes are, and end up as the president who cried, "Wolf!".
Your mouth to God's ear.
| 1131 |
BlueCanuck Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:02:47am |
re: #1124 wahabicorridor
what's a 'busker'?
A busker is a musician that plays on the street for change. I don't consider those people beggars as they are giving value for money. However good they are depends on how much they make.
| 1132 |
solomonpanting Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:03:31am |
re: #1120 midwestgak
If only his power was lower than Bush's.
It's slipping, at least on health care reform revolution.
| 1133 |
MandyManners Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:03:37am |
re: #1098 iceweasel
I've got 'family' in lots of places, as do most Americans I'd bet. Why should Obama bring every family member (people who he barely knows) to america?
Not even his BROTHER? IIRC, one of his aunts is here illegally.
| 1134 |
Dianna Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:03:41am |
re: #1124 wahabicorridor
what's a 'busker'?
A singer or other musician.
Personally, the guy who used to walk around with a random box balanced on his nose and his hat held out always got a dollar from me.
| 1135 |
dwells38 Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:04:03am |
re: #1116 yma o hyd
Oh yes I will give money to street performers. They aren't telling me they're worthwhile. They're demonstrating it clearly.
| 1136 |
yma o hyd Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:04:07am |
re: #1099 buzzsawmonkey
Interesting example!
Unfortunately, these special beggars, who are not intimidating, have become quite rare over here. Mostly they are young drug addicts here, who, as so many nowadays, think they ahve the right to do as and what they want ...
As for both Torah and the NT: exactly! Thats why I think just handing over a dime, or some silver over here, is a cop-out. It doesn't really address the problem. Working with, or even just giving to, those charities who do the work is far better.
| 1137 |
Nevergiveup Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:04:14am |
Manny Ramirez pass Mickey Mantle on the All Time Home Run List. Yeah, sad but true, but I bet Manny ain't never going to see the inside of Cooperstown without a ticket.
| 1138 |
jcm Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:04:16am |
re: #1117 capitalist piglet
About fifteen years ago, I was playing a gig at the Westin Hotel in downtown Seattle. I had to go into the ladies room to change clothes, and while I was there, a young woman remarked that she liked the dress I was wearing.
I explained what I was doing there, and to be courteous, I asked her what she did for a living. In a shockingly casual, cheerful, off-the-cuff way, she said, "I'm a panhandler. I like it!"
I never gave money to anyone on the street again (though there is a favorite of mine who hangs out in Bellevue with a sign that says, "Why lie? Need money for beer.")...I give it to organizations instead.
Several years ago one of the TV stations staked out a freeway off ramp panhander. When she left her spot they followed her. She walked to a few blocks, climbed into a new SUV and headed straight to the mall.
| 1139 |
MandyManners Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:04:37am |
My goodness. Making excuses for FCBBHO not helping out his own flesh and blood. Fucking sick.
| 1140 |
BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:04:58am |
re: #1122 Ward Cleaver
The longer that program gets stalemated, the less chance it has of passing, as people become more skeptical with each passing day. 0bama's going to blow all his political capital by stressing how "urgent" all his socialist schemes are, and end up as the president who cried, "Wolf!".
Obama does have to pass some kind of health care reform this year, or he's dead. It probably won'r pass anyway, or whatever passes will be crap.
Intrade is giving the odds at 43% right now-- WITH a public option.
[Link: www.fivethirtyeight.com...]
| 1144 |
BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:05:57am |
re: #1131 BlueCanuck
A busker is a musician that plays on the street for change. I don't consider those people beggars as they are giving value for money. However good they are depends on how much they make.
Kids from the Curtis Institute rehearse in Suburban Station most days. These kids are really good!
| 1145 |
Vicious Babushka Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:06:04am |
re: #1096 BlueCanuck
There are very few homeless people I feel sorry for. Yes some may be drug addicts and alcoholics. But there are programs out there that will help them, and get them off the street. Most of them are there by choice. As I said there are a few that I feel sorry for, those are the mentally unsound that need medication. You can tell those ones. They ramble, rant, and rave. Talk to you like you are not there, or say strange things in response to your questions. Generally those ones aren't the ones asking for spare change.
There was a scandal a couple years ago in Toronto. Famous panhandler was known as the "shaky lady". Newspaper did an expose on her and it was discovered that she lived with her son, who had a job. From just watching a week the reporter figured that she was taking in about a couple grand a month.
I am reminded of the famous Sherlock Holmes story, "The Man With The Twisted Face"
| 1146 |
BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:06:10am |
re: #1141 taxfreekiller
Brooks, "rino lite" with no core values.
Updinged you. Brooks is a tool with no core values. (unless 'getting published' counts as one)
| 1147 |
NJDhockeyfan Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:06:21am |
I was listening to a talk show yesterday and the subject was health care. A caller said he went to his doctor and they found a cancerous growth on him. Four days later they cut it out and he is now fine. When he told a family member in Canada they were shocked. They said if he was in Vancouver he would have had to wait 7 months before getting the cancer removed. Needless to say he would probably be dead right now if he was living in Canada then.
| 1150 |
Truck Monkey Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:07:09am |
re: #1134 Dianna
A singer or other musician.
Personally, the guy who used to walk around with a random box balanced on his nose and his hat held out always got a dollar from me.
You'll find this interesting. Great story.
[Link: www.sequenza21.com...]
| 1151 |
BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:07:17am |
re: #1125 buzzsawmonkey
Thompson I'm not familiar with; first name? What did he write?
James M. Cain I've found intermittently interesting, but he reads sort of like Nelson Algren written by Dashiell Hammett; prose almost as spare as Hammett's but more grim. I've never quite managed to cozy up to Cain, even though I like both Hammett and Algren.
BRB, will answer asap
| 1152 |
VegasRick Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:07:31am |
re: #1139 MandyManners
My goodness. Making excuses for FCBBHO not helping out his own flesh and blood. Fucking sick.
It really is. obamanot.
| 1153 |
sagehen Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:08:18am |
re: #1025 Truck Monkey
I have to admit that I am a beggar too. I think that the shame and stigma attached to those that feel it necessary to beg should be lifted. I should not feel ashamed to admit that I often beg for sex, and I would not go to the church to have that request filled.
//
Hey, if it's the church at C Street, that request *would* be filled.
| 1154 |
redstateredneck Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:08:22am |
Had to share:
Question:
What do you get when you mix PMS with GPS?
Answer:
A crazy bitch who will find you!
| 1155 |
Pianobuff Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:08:32am |
re: #1117 capitalist piglet
About fifteen years ago, I was playing a gig at the Westin Hotel in downtown Seattle. I had to go into the ladies room to change clothes, and while I was there, a young woman remarked that she liked the dress I was wearing.
I explained what I was doing there, and to be courteous, I asked her what she did for a living. In a shockingly casual, cheerful, off-the-cuff way, she said, "I'm a panhandler. I like it!"
I never gave money to anyone on the street again (though there is a favorite of mine who hangs out in Bellevue with a sign that says, "Why lie? Need money for beer.")...I give it to organizations instead.
In the LA area at the intersection of Topanga and PCH the panhandlers have all sorts of interesting signs that are an attempt to get money through a twisted sort of humor. Signs that might say:
* Need Weed
* No Plans to Work
* Don't need love, just money
etc.
| 1156 |
yma o hyd Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:08:59am |
re: #1119 wahabicorridor
I saw a piece about 2 weeks ago blaming AGW for shrinking sheep.
Seriously.
I remember that - it was about the wild-living Soay sheep on an island in the Hebrides.
Wat they actually found was that because of the milder winters the puny sheep born that year survived, rather than die, because tehre was more food available.
Thus the stats showed the size of the sheep overall had shrunk ...
Its an exercise in population dynamics, nothing to do with genetics or AGW!
But trust the MFM to make up idiotic headlines!
| 1157 |
midwestgak Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:09:17am |
re: #1128 realwest
Read, also, The Maltese Falcon - read, not watch the movie (which is also excellent!).
Reading the book rather than watching a movie is far superior. I read Stephen King's Needful Things before I saw the movie. The movie didn't/couldn't capture the subtle intrigue of King's writing.
| 1158 |
jcm Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:09:46am |
re: #1147 NJDhockeyfan
I was listening to a talk show yesterday and the subject was health care. A caller said he went to his doctor and they found a cancerous growth on him. Four days later they cut it out and he is now fine. When he told a family member in Canada they were shocked. They said if he was in Vancouver he would have had to wait 7 months before getting the cancer removed. Needless to say he would probably be dead right now if he was living in Canada then.
Last summer IIRC a Canadian tourist in Seattle suffered a heart attack. Once they were stabilized the family tried to get them home. They ended up with an extended stay in Seattle. In the 3 western provinces they was not a single cardiac unit bed available for the person.
| 1159 |
capitalist piglet Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:10:00am |
re: #1138 jcm
Several years ago one of the TV stations staked out a freeway off ramp panhander. When she left her spot they followed her. She walked to a few blocks, climbed into a new SUV and headed straight to the mall.
I believe it. That guy who is at the Rose Hill Starbucks every day doesn't exactly look hungry, if you know what I mean. And he's always talking on a cell phone.
You no doubt remember the big dust up over Tent City 4; one local talk show host (it may have been Dori - I can't remember for sure) interviewed some of the residents, and their stories were incredible. Some of the traveled here thousands of miles to live in the damned thing. And then they'd complain about the food donations: "Too much chicken lasagna!"
Good grief.
| 1160 |
Lincolntf Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:10:12am |
re: #1152 VegasRick
That's the beauty of the deification of Obama. Everything he does or does not do is automatically just and wise by virtue of the fact that it's Obama doing it.
He could drop his pants and take a crap in the middle of his press conference and his followers would marvel over how well his bowels work.
| 1161 |
realwest Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:10:34am |
re: #1083 doppelganglander
He knows perfectly well that the answer to the question is no. He just doesn't want to admit it because surveys show the majority of people are very happy with their own insurance. If they realized they would not be allowed to keep their current coverage, it would probably run about 70% opposed to Obamacare.
Good morning/afternoon to you! And you're spot on with that one! I'm sure that Obama doesn't know every provision of that bill - in fact, Harry Waxman who wrote the first part of it doesn't know every provision of it. But Obama knows that one, for sure.
| 1162 |
BlueCanuck Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:10:39am |
re: #1126 doppelganglander
Well, I did a quick search. It was about 2002 when it was revealed. Here's a discussion about a court case where "Shaky Lady" attacked some one. As well here's an article where she disputes the thousands of dollars claims. A note to none Torontonian lizards. A Bay Street lawyer is an expensive lawyer.
| 1163 |
Pianobuff Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:10:42am |
re: #1141 taxfreekiller
Brooks, "rino lite" with no core values.
Well, my read is that he's way off base and just trying to cover his own butt. After all, he's been hammering home to the right how centrist Obama is and how insane R's are to suggest or state otherwise. I'm interested in how a prog views this.
| 1164 |
yma o hyd Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:11:28am |
re: #1124 wahabicorridor
what's a 'busker'?
A busker is a person who plays a musical instrument, in the street or, in London, in the udnerpasses of the tube.
Some are very good - we ahd some trios from the Welsh school of music playing Mozart - there is a brilliant man playing the classical guitar - that sort of thing.
It brings some cheer to the day.
Well - thats a busker (not gender-specific), and what they do is 'busking'.
| 1165 |
Charpete67 Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:12:01am |
re: #1123 Ward Cleaver
I don't know how we walk around with those things...
| 1166 |
avanti Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:12:21am |
re: #1029 MandyManners
Personally, I think charity is better given to those in the USA. If he'd given the 240K to Africa, you know what we'd be hearing.
| 1167 |
midwestgak Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:12:31am |
re: #1145 Alouette
I am reminded of the famous Sherlock Holmes story, "The Man With The Twisted Face"
That reminds me of the camp side story, "The Man With the Golden Arm."/
| 1169 |
jcm Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:12:40am |
re: #1159 capitalist piglet
Did you catch this?
Seattle homeless camp given Thursday deadline
The state Transportation Department gave residents of a transient camp in Seattle three days notice Monday to move the tent city they call Nickelsville.Officials told campers they are violating city of Seattle health and safety codes.
The Transportation Department says if residents decline the social services offered to help them move, State Patrol troopers will become involved on Thursday evening.
The group Real Change says residents are committed to staying unless an adequate permanent site becomes available.
Real Change is part of the Share/Wheel cabal.
| 1170 |
MandyManners Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:13:09am |
Your text to link...Obama needed help to buy his (a home worth $1.6 million dollars by the way that comes equipped with 4 fireplaces and a wine cellar holding 1,000 bottles of the finest) and the help he received came from someone convicted of wire fraud, mail fraud, corrupt solicitation, and money laundering.
The man makes close to 4 million a year, lives in a mansion described by the WaPo as “a house with six bedrooms, four fireplaces, a four-car garage and 5 1/2 baths, including a double steam shower and a marble powder room. It had a wine cellar, a music room, a library, a solarium, beveled glass doors and a granite-floored kitchen,”
SNIP
| 1171 |
wahabicorridor Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:13:14am |
Thanks for the 'busker' education, all
Re: that woman in Tampa with 3 imaginary kids...
I tried to help someone once - she was actually and LGFer back in the early days.
Turned out she was so mentally ill, there was nothing I could do. I even spent several thousand dollars on a lawyer for her to help her thru the bureaucracy.
I don't know where is is now. Probably still homeless. Maybe dead.
To this day, I believe I did that woman a serious disservice. I'm going to anser to G-d for that one.
| 1173 |
realwest Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:14:38am |
re: #1102 Nevergiveup
"Kinda makes you wonder ha? Well some of us know where Obama stands and it is not with all our past friends
There, FTFY!
| 1174 |
BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:14:44am |
re: #1164 yma o hyd
A busker is a person who plays a musical instrument, in the street or, in London, in the udnerpasses of the tube.
Some are very good - we ahd some trios from the Welsh school of music playing Mozart - there is a brilliant man playing the classical guitar - that sort of thing.
It brings some cheer to the day.Well - thats a busker (not gender-specific), and what they do is 'busking'.
There's an old Chinese gentleman who plays an erhu outside the CVS sometimes. He's good enough to play in a subway station & I mean that as a compliment!
| 1175 |
MandyManners Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:14:53am |
re: #1170 MandyManners
Yet he gave not one fucking dime to that village in Kenya or his brother.
| 1176 |
lawhawk Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:15:13am |
re: #1128 realwest
I agree with you about the Maltese Falcon. Excellent read and sparse prose yet detailed enough to be thoroughly entertaining.
As we're now talking about reading lists and books to recommend, here's one I just finished yesterday. It's called Six Months in Sudan: A Young Doctor in a War-Torn Village by Dr. James Maskalyk. It gives a real immersion in the problems facing those who try to help folks in far flung parts of the world as part of MSF (aka Doctors Without Borders) and helping local communities deal with medical issues.
This particular doctor wanted to help in Sudan, and was sent to a remote part of the country, and the first thing that he faced was a measles outbreak, which left dead and dying around him. Throw in the specter of renewed war, and a reluctance and/or inability to go to the hospital until it was too late, and you have a grim tale.
Oh, and as a postscript - the war that was always hanging over the location where this hospital was located - Abyei - came just weeks after the doctor left. MSF and all the other NGOs and UN left, leaving the people to their own devices - and more death and misery.
| 1177 |
solomonpanting Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:15:27am |
re: #1168 taxfreekiller
fast forward,
should some commie or this current one get this shit past U.S..
and your say 84 and on Social Security/Govt. Ins.what would be the response time/ or would it be
to bad so sad that procedure is for a full time "worker"
That's part of the larger plan to cut social security expenses.
| 1179 |
avanti Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:16:25am |
re: #1170 MandyManners
Yep, he's rich from his book sales, but only owns one house and is not wealthy by Senate standards. A conservative would normally cheer his success from humble beginnings.
| 1180 |
BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:16:25am |
re: #1125 buzzsawmonkey
Thompson I'm not familiar with; first name? What did he write?
James M. Cain I've found intermittently interesting, but he reads sort of like Nelson Algren written by Dashiell Hammett; prose almost as spare as Hammett's but more grim. I've never quite managed to cozy up to Cain, even though I like both Hammett and Algren.
Buzz-- i saw your other comment about Hammett too. I mean Jim Thompson, author of the Killer Inside me, Pop 1820, and also books for the basis for the movies The grifters, and Coup de Torchon among others.
Thompson wrote a lot of books, but Killer Inside me and Pop. 1820 are excellent.
I'd disagree with you about James M cain, but I think my taste might run more to the macabre than yours. I'd defend two of his books as brilliant.
| 1181 |
midwestgak Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:16:29am |
re: #1160 Lincolntf
That's the beauty of the deification of Obama. Everything he does or does not do is automatically just and wise by virtue of the fact that it's Obama doing it.
He could drop his pants and take a crap in the middle of his press conference and his followers would marvel over how well his bowels work.
I don't think so because Obama would demand the press clean it up. Everyone has their limit./
| 1182 |
wahabicorridor Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:16:33am |
re: #1170 MandyManners
a granite floor? In the kitchen?! How stupid is that?
| 1183 |
jcm Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:16:33am |
re: #1164 yma o hyd
A busker is a person who plays a musical instrument, in the street or, in London, in the udnerpasses of the tube.
Some are very good - we ahd some trios from the Welsh school of music playing Mozart - there is a brilliant man playing the classical guitar - that sort of thing.
It brings some cheer to the day.Well - thats a busker (not gender-specific), and what they do is 'busking'.
While back Seattle had a brilliant idea.
Hire buskers and have them play in city parks.
Gives the buskers work. But more importantly it will attract people to the parks and drive off the criminals!
| 1184 |
Walter L. Newton Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:16:35am |
re: #1171 wahabicorridor
Thanks for the 'busker' education, all
Re: that woman in Tampa with 3 imaginary kids...
I tried to help someone once - she was actually and LGFer back in the early days.
Turned out she was so mentally ill, there was nothing I could do. I even spent several thousand dollars on a lawyer for her to help her thru the bureaucracy.
I don't know where is is now. Probably still homeless. Maybe dead.
To this day, I believe I did that woman a serious disservice. I'm going to anser to G-d for that one.
Please don't conflate the modern meaning of "busker" with the older stigma of a panhandler. Modern day buskers are entertainers, performers and such and give a service for your donation.
If you think "buskers" are some sort of louts, then remember this, the multi-million dollar business called Cirque De Soleil was started by buskers.
| 1185 |
yma o hyd Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:17:26am |
re: #1171 wahabicorridor
A difficult one, that is.
However - I believe that God judges what was in your heart, and not the outcome, which depended on her, not on you.
So - don't lambast yourself!
| 1186 |
Mad Al-Jaffee Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:17:30am |
re: #1115 dwells38
I would rather do volunteer work than give money away. I think timespent volunteering is more valuable. I haven't done much since I left the fire department, but that was around 4 years, with lots of time spend helping strangers.
| 1187 |
realwest Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:18:03am |
re: #1109 iceweasel
Where did I say Obama invented it? Or the Democrats Leftists even?
| 1188 |
J.S. Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:18:04am |
re: #1176 lawhawk
(hmm...maybe we should also have a list of books to avoid -- or those books not recommended -- I've got one -- it's called "The Ayatollah begs to differ" -- I believe it's nothing more than an extended apology for HAMAS, Hezbollah and the Mullahs of Iran...)
| 1189 |
doppelganglander Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:18:43am |
re: #1161 realwest
Good morning/afternoon to you! And you're spot on with that one! I'm sure that Obama doesn't know every provision of that bill - in fact, Harry Waxman who wrote the first part of it doesn't know every provision of it. But Obama knows that one, for sure.
Good afternoon, dear. I hope you're doing well today.
| 1190 |
BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:18:45am |
re: #1184 Walter L. Newton
Please don't conflate the modern meaning of "busker" with the older stigma of a panhandler. Modern day buskers are entertainers, performers and such and give a service for your donation.
If you think "buskers" are some sort of louts, then remember this, the multi-million dollar business called Cirque De Soleil was started by buskers.
Well said.
| 1191 |
Pianobuff Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:19:10am |
re: #1184 Walter L. Newton
Please don't conflate the modern meaning of "busker" with the older stigma of a panhandler. Modern day buskers are entertainers, performers and such and give a service for your donation.
If you think "buskers" are some sort of louts, then remember this, the multi-million dollar business called Cirque De Soleil was started by buskers.
The buskers in Nice are highly organized and have scheduled "performances" in front of cafes and restaurants with outdoor seating that are coordinated across the different groups so they don't get in each other's way. Includes dancers as well as musicians, too.
One can make an evening out of a long dinner and watching the performers. Real nice.
| 1192 |
midwestgak Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:19:14am |
re: #1172 buzzsawmonkey
All great movies for sure. Have you ever seen the orginal movie of "The Bad Seed?"
| 1193 |
BlueCanuck Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:19:17am |
re: #1184 Walter L. Newton
Please don't conflate the modern meaning of "busker" with the older stigma of a panhandler. Modern day buskers are entertainers, performers and such and give a service for your donation.
If you think "buskers" are some sort of louts, then remember this, the multi-million dollar business called Cirque De Soleil was started by buskers.
Are Subway system has places set up for buskers. Outlines on floors where they can set up. Every year in the downtown core there is a "Buskerfest" where all sorts of entertainers show off their talents. When the CNE is on there's a competition for the Subway to see who can get a permit to perform in the system. Pretty good set up.
| 1195 |
wahabicorridor Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:20:05am |
re: #1184 Walter L. Newton
Please don't conflate the modern meaning of "busker" with the older stigma of a panhandler.
What? I didn't. What are you talking about?
| 1196 |
doppelganglander Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:20:15am |
re: #1183 jcm
While back Seattle had a brilliant idea.
Hire buskers and have them play in city parks.
Gives the buskers work. But more importantly it will attract people to the parks and drive off the criminals!
What a neat idea. I love street performers. It's just part of the urban experience that I don't get to enjoy as a suburban dweller.
| 1197 |
yma o hyd Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:20:29am |
re: #1174 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey
There's an old Chinese gentleman who plays an erhu outside the CVS sometimes. He's good enough to play in a subway station & I mean that as a compliment!
Wow - I've never come across that instrument before!
(Thank you, Lizard Academy of Knowledge!)
As for being 'good enough to play in a subway station' - yep, I know exactly what you mean. Rumour has it that in London, the buskers themselves see to it that only the best ones get the really good (acoustic-wise) palces.
| 1199 |
Walter L. Newton Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:20:58am |
re: #1192 midwestgak
All great movies for sure. Have you ever seen the orginal movie of "The Bad Seed?"
No need to, I lived with her.
/
| 1200 |
Dianna Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:21:02am |
re: #1176 lawhawk
That's the Sudan. It has been like that for even longer than I've been worried about it.
| 1201 |
capitalist piglet Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:21:11am |
re: #1169 jcm
Did you catch this?
Seattle homeless camp given Thursday deadline
Real Change is part of the Share/Wheel cabal.
I hadn't seen that one, thanks. These people have pretty much publicly admitted they are extortionists. On the eastside, they have camped the most dysfunctional individuals they can find in neighborhoods it would cost a million dollars to buy a house in, and it's all by design. They've said as much.
| 1202 |
MrSilverDragon Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:22:12am |
re: #1154 redstateredneck
You just made my day. Kudos!
| 1203 |
Walter L. Newton Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:22:42am |
re: #1195 wahabicorridor
What? I didn't. What are you talking about?
Sorry, I didn't see a link to any comment above your comment and I assumed that you were putting buskers into the category of panhandler. I went up thread and saw how the subject started, my mistake.
| 1204 |
debutaunt Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:22:46am |
re: #1179 avanti
Yep, he's rich from his book sales, but only owns one house and is not wealthy by Senate standards. A conservative would normally cheer his success from humble beginnings.
Humble beginnings?
| 1205 |
wahabicorridor Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:22:55am |
re: #1185 yma o hyd
Sorry, thanks for trying to make me feel better, but the truth is I ended up hurting that woman and my good intentions don't erase that. Period.
| 1206 |
MandyManners Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:22:58am |
re: #1179 avanti
Yep, he's rich from his book sales, but only owns one house and is not wealthy by Senate standards. A conservative would normally cheer his success from humble beginnings.
I won't cheer the ascent of a fucking Commie bastard.
| 1207 |
doppelganglander Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:23:28am |
re: #1171 wahabicorridor
Thanks for the 'busker' education, all
Re: that woman in Tampa with 3 imaginary kids...
I tried to help someone once - she was actually and LGFer back in the early days.
Turned out she was so mentally ill, there was nothing I could do. I even spent several thousand dollars on a lawyer for her to help her thru the bureaucracy.
I don't know where is is now. Probably still homeless. Maybe dead.
To this day, I believe I did that woman a serious disservice. I'm going to anser to G-d for that one.
I think your heart was in the right place and you shouldn't be sorry you tried to help. Sometimes nothing you do is enough, but you were not wrong to try.
| 1208 |
Mad Al-Jaffee Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:23:32am |
re: #1197 yma o hyd
I've heard that in Paris buskers have to audition before they are allowed to perform in public.
| 1211 |
MandyManners Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:23:43am |
re: #1182 wahabicorridor
a granite floor? In the kitchen?! How stupid is that?
It's gotta' be a bitch on the legs.
| 1212 |
BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:23:48am |
re: #1171 wahabicorridor
I'm sorry that happened to you. It sounds like you did a good thing out of good intentions. That's to your credit, and is never time or effort wasted, even if the object was unworthy.
| 1213 |
yma o hyd Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:23:53am |
re: #1205 wahabicorridor
Sorry, thanks for trying to make me feel better, but the truth is I ended up hurting that woman and my good intentions don't erase that. Period.
{wahabicorridor}
| 1214 |
Walter L. Newton Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:24:16am |
re: #1204 debutaunt
Humble beginnings?
Don't try to fight it, just roll with it, the answer won't make any sense. This too will pass :)
| 1216 |
Walter L. Newton Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:24:50am |
re: #1208 Mad Al-Jaffee
I've heard that in Paris buskers have to audition before they are allowed to perform in public.
Yep, they are licensed.
| 1217 |
yma o hyd Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:25:12am |
re: #1206 MandyManners
I won't cheer the ascent of a fucking Commie bastard.
Well said, Mandy!
I second that - having seen what twelve years of FCB-Government have done to my country!
| 1218 |
doppelganglander Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:25:14am |
re: #1206 MandyManners
I won't cheer the ascent of a fucking Commie bastard.
I don't want him anywhere near the halls of power, either, but I don't begrudge him making a lot of money from his books. Of all the reasons I despise him, that's not one of them.
| 1219 |
Flyers1974 Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:25:46am |
re: #1133 MandyManners
Part of the problem is timing. Once you apply for a sibling, it takes nine years at a minimum to bring that sibling to America.
| 1220 |
lawhawk Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:26:14am |
Okay. Since we all know that entitlements like Social Security are going to go bankrupt and we need to do something, here's a modest proposal that will cost nothing, and will make sure that the program can continue to provide benefits.
Maintain the current level of benefits for those who were born through 1965, which allows for full benefits for age 67, and partial benefits at 62. For those born in 1965-1979, increase the year that you can receive full benefits by one year (68/63). For every five years after, increase the year in which you can receive full benefits by one year.
From 1970-1975, 69/64;
From 1976-1980, 70/65;
From 1981-1985, 71/66;
From 1986-1990, 72/67;
From 1991-1995, 73/68;
From 1996-2000, 74/69; and
From 2001-2005, 75/70.
In other words, someone born in 1972 would have to 69 (or 64 to receive partial benefits). This adjustment would take into account the higher standards of living, the life expectancy, and maintain the solvency.
You could do variations on this - make the time frame 7 years or so, but every five years seems like a reasonable and easily calculable grouping.
It's so simple, and yet it's precisely why it wont get done.
This would alleviate the need to reduce benefits, although depending on just how far out of balance the system is, benefits would have to be reduced to maintain solvency and bring the program back into the black.
| 1221 |
sagehen Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:26:21am |
re: #1059 realwest
Um, I don't intend to be mean when I say this, but here in the US, it's almost always the brides family that pays for the wedding. Seriously.
In a more tradition-bound era, when such things were done...
Christian marriage involved a dowry.
Jewish marriage involved a bride-price.
In dowry cultures, a woman is considered a terrible burden. Her family will pay good money to get her off their hands, a man needs to be well-paid to be willing to take her on.
In bride-price cultures, a woman is considered a great treasure. Her family needs compensation to be willing to part with her, a man will pay dearly for the privilege of adding her to his life.
| 1222 |
BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:26:23am |
re: #1198 buzzsawmonkey
Yes; I found it very stagy, and the mother was an idiot.
But have you read the book by (i think) william march?
the character of the mother was supposed to be a bit of an idiot, and if it's stagey I *think* the novel was a play before it was a movie.
I'd agree that the movie doesn't work.
| 1224 |
wahabicorridor Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:26:59am |
re: #1212 iceweasel
even if the object was unworthy.
She wasn't 'unworthy'. She was ill - deeply ill. I suspect it had something to do with genetics. Her mother walked off the roof of their apt bldg. on Connetticut Ave.
| 1226 |
wahabicorridor Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:27:40am |
re: #1211 MandyManners
It's gotta' be a bitch on the legs.
And on your tailbone when you slip on the wet floor.
| 1227 |
Ward Cleaver Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:27:56am |
re: #1211 MandyManners
It's gotta' be a bitch on the legs.
Don't spill any water on the floor! Whoops!
/one broken hip, comin' up!
| 1228 |
lawhawk Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:27:57am |
re: #1200 Dianna
Indeed. The book was as much a mirror as to the kind of people who go into MSF and the kind of thing they put up with to try and help others, as it is about the Sudan.
It just as easily could have been set anywhere else that MSF operates.
| 1229 |
Pianobuff Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:28:01am |
re: #1179 avanti
Yep, he's rich from his book sales, but only owns one house and is not wealthy by Senate standards. A conservative would normally cheer his success from humble beginnings.
Did you even read the article? The criticism was not of his wealth, the criticism was about his marginalization and ridicule of those with means and. He's a hypocrite, considering his own wealth.
| 1230 |
albusteve Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:28:44am |
re: #1131 BlueCanuck
A busker is a musician that plays on the street for change. I don't consider those people beggars as they are giving value for money. However good they are depends on how much they make.
I always tip the buskers...everytime, Ill go get change and come back...Old Town in ABQ has many fine street musicians
| 1231 |
Dianna Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:28:48am |
re: #1204 debutaunt
Humble beginnings?
That's ridiculous and irritating.
Frankly, his origins are less humble than my own.
| 1232 |
wahabicorridor Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:29:28am |
Well, the Fat Beagle has awoken and is demanding a snack.
Have a great day lizards!
| 1233 |
Kosh's Shadow Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:29:31am |
re: #1121 Nevergiveup
If only his power was lower than Bush's.
Give him time
Unfortunately, in the process, he's destroying America's power.
| 1234 |
doppelganglander Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:30:07am |
re: #1220 lawhawk
I was born before 1965, so that works for me. ;) Seriously, though, considering that life expectancy has advanced by a couple of decades since SS was first instituted, it seems reasonable to expect older Americans to work longer. Since the birth rate is dropping and there are fewer young adults coming into the workforce, those older workers are actually very much needed.
| 1235 |
debutaunt Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:30:09am |
re: #1231 Dianna
That's ridiculous and irritating.
Frankly, his origins are less humble than my own.
Our President went to a HUMBLE private school.
| 1237 |
avanti Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:31:19am |
re: #1204 debutaunt
Humble beginnings?
OK, reeducate me. I had read that he was not raised in privage. Give me a link that shows he started well off.
"He returned to Hawaii, where he was brought up largely by his grandparents. The family lived in a small apartment - his grandfather was a furniture salesman and an unsuccessful insurance agent and his grandmother worked in a bank - but Barack managed to get into Punahou School, Hawaii's top prep academy. His father wrote to him regularly but, though he traveled around the world on official business for Kenya, he visited only once, when Barack was ten."
| 1239 |
jcm Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:32:01am |
re: #1196 doppelganglander
What a neat idea. I love street performers. It's just part of the urban experience that I don't get to enjoy as a suburban dweller.
That part I didn't mind.
It was the hiring of buskers as an alternative to law enforcement that was an issue.
| 1240 |
Pianobuff Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:32:17am |
| 1241 |
Dianna Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:32:30am |
re: #1221 sagehen
I hate that sort of statement, because it's inaccurate.
A dowry is the wife's maintenance (in the social strata that have such thing), the establishment that will preserve her as a widow, and provide for any child that is not an heir.
Though - given the utterly insane level of sexism that has permeated almost every terrestrial culture I'm familiar with - a woman is pretty much property and a means of transferring property, the dowry system provided a certain amount of protection for a woman.
| 1242 |
lawhawk Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:33:14am |
re: #1237 avanti
You aren't going to go to a private exclusive school if you're poor. You've got to have some amount of money to make that happen. Then, from that private school, he ended up in the Ivy League for college and law school, neither of which is cheap either. Where did the money come for that?
It certainly wasn't a hardscrabble existence, that's for sure. It sounds like a perfectly comfortable middle class upbringing to me.
| 1243 |
BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:33:14am |
re: #1224 wahabicorridor
She was ill - deeply ill. I suspect it had something to do with genetics. Her mother walked off the roof of their apt bldg. on Connetticut Ave.
Sorry wahabi-- by 'unworthy' here I had something else in mind.
All kudos to you for what you did. (no blame to her, either).
| 1244 |
Pianobuff Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:33:26am |
re: #1237 avanti
OK, reeducate me. I had read that he was not raised in privage. Give me a link that shows he started well off.
"He returned to Hawaii, where he was brought up largely by his grandparents. The family lived in a small apartment - his grandfather was a furniture salesman and an unsuccessful insurance agent and his grandmother worked in a bank - but Barack managed to get into Punahou School, Hawaii's top prep academy. His father wrote to him regularly but, though he traveled around the world on official business for Kenya, he visited only once, when Barack was ten."
worked in a bank, eh? She was a VP... not a teller.
| 1245 |
haakondahl Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:33:31am |
In Japan, the Buskers must ask for a permit, but I believe it's just to de-conflict working space, and possibly as a hammer to swing against miscreants.
I was teaching English at a place just outside Kawasaki Keikyu, and I heard a wonderful three-piece rock band playing. I maust have stood there an hour, then bought a CD and hauled ass.
The band was Theta, and they're really enjoyable.
I saw another band where the drummer was sitting on a wooden box--and that was his drum. Apparently, it's special-made for busking. It has different sound areas, complete with some snare wires inside one of the faces. I was just blown away.
| 1246 |
avanti Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:33:34am |
re: #1236 buzzsawmonkey
He may have had "humble beginnings," but he ditched the humility along the way.
That I can agree with, he has a big ego now, and I think he got it from his grandmother that told him he was special.
| 1247 |
poteen Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:33:57am |
re: #1237 avanti
His beginnings were humble, until he discovered his rich uncle,
Affirmative Action.
| 1249 |
FrogMarch Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:34:34am |
re: #1179 avanti
Yep, he's rich from his book sales, but only owns one house and is not wealthy by Senate standards. A conservative would normally cheer his success from humble beginnings.
I would cheer his success - if OBAMA didn't do things like this:
Typical democrat pay-to-play suck-up to monopolistic teacher's unions.
Screw the kids. Meanwhile, Obama sends his kids to private school.
| 1250 |
Vicious Babushka Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:34:47am |
re: #1059 realwest
Um, I don't intend to be mean when I say this, but here in the US, it's almost always the brides family that pays for the wedding. Seriously. And if you're personal financial situation won't let you pay what you need to or want to, hell let 'em have a smaller weddding or elope.
I really, honestly don't think you should get so upset about this PRIMARILY because of your son's upcoming nuptuals.
Just saying, as a friend...
I think modern weddings have gotten completely out of hand. I was married in a ceremony in my parents' backyard.
| 1251 |
dwells38 Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:34:48am |
re: #1164 yma o hyd
A busker is a person who plays a musical instrument, in the street or, in London, in the udnerpasses of the tube.
Some are very good - we ahd some trios from the Welsh school of music playing Mozart - there is a brilliant man playing the classical guitar - that sort of thing.
It brings some cheer to the day.Well - thats a busker (not gender-specific), and what they do is 'busking'.
Right. This is merely impromptu gigging. No different than giving some free samples on the internet in hopes someone pays to download more of the same if they liked it.
| 1252 |
capitalist piglet Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:34:51am |
re: #1237 avanti
OK, reeducate me. I had read that he was not raised in privage. Give me a link that shows he started well off.
"He returned to Hawaii, where he was brought up largely by his grandparents. The family lived in a small apartment - his grandfather was a furniture salesman and an unsuccessful insurance agent and his grandmother worked in a bank - but Barack managed to get into Punahou School, Hawaii's top prep academy. His father wrote to him regularly but, though he traveled around the world on official business for Kenya, he visited only once, when Barack was ten."
If I remember correctly, his grandmother was an executive at the bank.
In any case, it sounds like a pretty decent life to me. Hawaii isn't cheap. "Humble beginnings" sounds like he grew up in the projects or something.
| 1253 |
BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:34:51am |
re: #1242 lawhawk
You aren't going to go to a private exclusive school if you're poor. You've got to have some amount of money to make that happen. Then, from that private school, he ended up in the Ivy League for college and law school, neither of which is cheap either. Where did the money come for that?
.
Not true. You can be poor and wind up in a private school on scholarship (as he did.)
You can be poor and wind up in the Ivy League and law school (as many do, including many here, I bet).
| 1254 |
realwest Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:35:00am |
re: #1140 iceweasel
Why do you think Obama (and of course Pelosi and Reid) have been in such a rush to get this legislation passed (by this I mean the Stimulus bill, Cap and Trade and Healthcare)?
It seems to me that if they HADN'T pushed around congresscritters from their own party - making it difficult for a LOT of them (mostly but not exculsively the "Blue Dogs") to get re-elected they would have done much better - with another full session of Congress before the Dems MAYBE have to worry about losing their supermajorities?
I mean, I'm a Republican, but would vote against or at least not vote, were my candidate to admit to not even reading the legislation on which he voted Yes.
| 1256 |
doppelganglander Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:35:16am |
re: #1237 avanti
OK, reeducate me. I had read that he was not raised in privage. Give me a link that shows he started well off.
"He returned to Hawaii, where he was brought up largely by his grandparents. The family lived in a small apartment - his grandfather was a furniture salesman and an unsuccessful insurance agent and his grandmother worked in a bank - but Barack managed to get into Punahou School, Hawaii's top prep academy. His father wrote to him regularly but, though he traveled around the world on official business for Kenya, he visited only once, when Barack was ten."
I would call that solidly middle class. I don't know a lot about real estate prices in Hawaii, but I seem to recall they're higher than on the mainland, which leads me to think that many people who would be owners elsewhere are renters in Hawaii. Also, Obama's mama seemed to have plenty of money to be a perpetual graduate student and flit back and forth between Hawaii and Indonesia. Again, that doesn't necessarily mean "privileged," but it's hardly poverty.
| 1257 |
debutaunt Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:35:18am |
re: #1237 avanti
OK, reeducate me. I had read that he was not raised in privage. Give me a link that shows he started well off.
"He returned to Hawaii, where he was brought up largely by his grandparents. The family lived in a small apartment - his grandfather was a furniture salesman and an unsuccessful insurance agent and his grandmother worked in a bank - but Barack managed to get into Punahou School, Hawaii's top prep academy. His father wrote to him regularly but, though he traveled around the world on official business for Kenya, he visited only once, when Barack was ten."
He managed to get into private school.
"Madelyn Dunham, Obama's grandmother, blazed a feminist trail in Hawaii banking circles in the late 1960s and early 1970s and rose to become one of the Bank of Hawaii's first female vice presidents."
| 1258 |
Nevergiveup Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:35:29am |
re: #1242 lawhawk
You aren't going to go to a private exclusive school if you're poor. You've got to have some amount of money to make that happen. Then, from that private school, he ended up in the Ivy League for college and law school, neither of which is cheap either. Where did the money come for that?
It certainly wasn't a hardscrabble existence, that's for sure. It sounds like a perfectly comfortable middle class upbringing to me.
Oh and he is half white, although we never really hear about that. And who really brought him up?
| 1259 |
midwestgak Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:35:54am |
re: #1198 buzzsawmonkey
Yes; I found it very stagy, and the mother was an idiot.
hahahahahahahaha. The mother WAS an idiot. In both the black and white and color versions. The original was the best. The spoiled brat saw the "lightning" in the end.
| 1260 |
avanti Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:36:17am |
| 1262 |
Creeping Eruption Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:36:41am |
Good morning
Just pooping in so do not know if this was linked yet: Amateur Finds New Earth-Sized Blot on Jupiter
NASA has confirmed the discovery of a new hole the size of the Earth in Jupiter’s atmosphere, apparently showing that the planet was hit by something large in recent days.
| 1263 |
Creeping Eruption Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:37:08am |
PIMF
re: #1262 Creeping Eruption
Good morning
Just
poopingpopping in so do not know if this was linked yet: Amateur Finds New Earth-Sized Blot on Jupiter
| 1264 |
Dianna Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:37:26am |
re: #1242 lawhawk
You aren't going to go to a private exclusive school if you're poor. You've got to have some amount of money to make that happen. Then, from that private school, he ended up in the Ivy League for college and law school, neither of which is cheap either. Where did the money come for that?
It certainly wasn't a hardscrabble existence, that's for sure. It sounds like a perfectly comfortable middle class upbringing to me.
Indeed. Absolutely true. For those of us who went through public schools, state universities (who paid for it ourselves, thank you very much), worked the entire time at jobs which would make you pale (some of them, anyway), and maintained a 3.8 average...referring to that man as having "humble origins" is revolting.
| 1265 |
realwest Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:37:30am |
re: #1149 buzzsawmonkey
Yep, saw your post in which you mentioned Dash after I posted mine (I'm SO FAR behind!).
| 1266 |
doppelganglander Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:37:50am |
re: #1239 jcm
That part I didn't mind.
It was the hiring of buskers as an alternative to law enforcement that was an issue.
I didn't read it that way. I saw it as enhancing the park experience for families; more use by respectable folks --> fewer criminals. It's probably cheaper and more pleasant than an increased police presence, too. But you do have a valid point.
| 1267 |
haakondahl Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:37:55am |
re: #1221 sagehen
... a man will pay dearly for the privilege of adding her to his life.
Which is nothing compared to the price of the reverse process.
| 1268 |
avanti Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:38:01am |
re: #1059 realwest
I'm paying for a rehearsal dinner for my son's wedding, and odds and ends, but that's it.
| 1269 |
Dianna Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:38:58am |
re: #1246 avanti
That I can agree with, he has a big ego now, and I think he got it from his grandmother that told him he was special.
My mom told me I was pretty special, too.
So?
| 1270 |
haakondahl Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:39:03am |
re: #1248 buzzsawmonkey
The same one he called a "racist." What a charmer.
But how could he hear her from under that big ol' bus?
| 1271 |
J.S. Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:39:13am |
Speaking of buskers, btw, Gene Weingarten of the Washington Post won a Pulitzer Prize for feature writing in 2008 -- Weingarten was thinking along the lines of "if Yo-yo ma were to play in a subway as a busker, he'd be ignored"...Weingarten then had Joshua Bell (a virtuoso violinist) dress as a mendicant and play in a New York subway...(Bell netted 59 dollars for one day). (NPR did a series on this).
| 1272 |
Flyers1974 Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:39:17am |
re: #1246 avanti
That I can agree with, he has a big ego now, and I think he got it from his grandmother that told him he was special.
I wonder how many politicians on the national level have small egos. Or for that matter on a state level.
| 1273 |
BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:39:22am |
re: #1256 doppelganglander
Obama's mama seemed to have plenty of money to be a perpetual graduate student and flit back and forth between Hawaii and Indonesia. Again, that doesn't necessarily mean "privileged," but it's hardly poverty.
You don't necessarily need money to be a grad student. All you need is to excel sufficiently that the universities fund you. that isn't easy. (this differs by subject and uni. She was a grad student in the humanities/soft sciences. She had to be damn good to get funding. )
| 1274 |
Pianobuff Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:39:29am |
| 1276 |
haakondahl Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:39:52am |
re: #1269 Dianna
My mom told me I was pretty special, too.
So?
but in your case, she was right.
(Awww!)
| 1277 |
Kosh's Shadow Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:40:01am |
re: #1234 doppelganglander
I was born before 1965, so that works for me. ;) Seriously, though, considering that life expectancy has advanced by a couple of decades since SS was first instituted, it seems reasonable to expect older Americans to work longer. Since the birth rate is dropping and there are fewer young adults coming into the workforce, those older workers are actually very much needed.
Unfortunately, in some fields, it can be hard for someone "older" to get a job.
| 1278 |
Nevergiveup Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:41:41am |
It's raining here in the Northeast. I really wouldn't mind if the power went out and I could go home. G-D are you listening?
| 1279 |
haakondahl Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:41:43am |
re: #1271 J.S.
Speaking of buskers, btw, Gene Weingarten of the Washington Post won a Pulitzer Prize for feature writing in 2008 -- Weingarten was thinking along the lines of "if Yo-yo ma were to play in a subway as a busker, he'd be ignored"...Weingarten then had Joshua Bell (a virtuoso violinist) dress as a mendicant and play in a New York subway...(Bell netted 59 dollars for one day). (NPR did a series on this).
I saw this! It was wonderful. (The special I saw, not the performace).
| 1281 |
Kosh's Shadow Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:41:59am |
re: #1238 buzzsawmonkey
Old joke:
Once upon a time there was a very poor family. The maid was poor, the butler was poor, the chauffeur was poor...
Time for a classic sketch: the Four Wealthy Yorkshiremen:
| 1282 |
Creeping Eruption Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:42:11am |
re: #1271 J.S.
Speaking of buskers, btw, Gene Weingarten of the Washington Post won a Pulitzer Prize for feature writing in 2008 -- Weingarten was thinking along the lines of "if Yo-yo ma were to play in a subway as a busker, he'd be ignored"...Weingarten then had Joshua Bell (a virtuoso violinist) dress as a mendicant and play in a New York subway...(Bell netted 59 dollars for one day). (NPR did a series on this).
That was the coolest article I read in a long time. did you see the video that went along? The only one who seemed to stop (except for 1 person) was a little kid. His mom had to drag him away.
| 1284 |
avanti Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:42:50am |
re: #1274 Pianobuff
I know someone very well that was a schoolmate of his at Punahou. Barry had a good time at Punahou... believe me.
Well, he was 10 years old, what was he up to.?
| 1285 |
midwestgak Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:43:02am |
re: #1247 poteen
His beginnings were humble, until he discovered his rich uncle,
Affirmative Action.
Oh, when you said rich uncle, I thought you were referring to Sam.
| 1286 |
Dianna Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:43:15am |
| 1287 |
dwells38 Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:43:30am |
re: #1245 haakondahl
I think I could spare some change or a few bucks for this guy if I walked by: Onyx Ashanti
I mean heck, the head gear alone...
Seriously the guys an amazing wind synth player. He has lots of You Tube videos if you're interested in his work. I subscribe to a wind synth forum and he's a very deep expert on not only music and wind instruments but also EWIs (electronic woodwind instruments) and the software to drive and perform with them. That crazy helmet just makes him look a little silly but I think he views it as his signature. Knowing him there's probably some kind of heads up display there too. I'll have to ask him.
| 1288 |
haakondahl Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:43:30am |
re: #1273 iceweasel
You don't necessarily need money to be a grad student. All you need is to excel sufficiently that the universities fund you. that isn't easy. (this differs by subject and uni. She was a grad student in the humanities/soft sciences. She had to be damn good to get funding. )
One could alternatively say that you just have to figure out the University system, and then *I* fund you.
| 1289 |
BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:43:34am |
re: #1282 Creeping Eruption
That was the coolest article I read in a long time. did you see the video that went along? The only one who seemed to stop (except for 1 person) was a little kid. His mom had to drag him away.
the only people who noticed or stopped were kids. Isn't that interesting?
| 1290 |
Nevergiveup Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:43:45am |
Well the Senate just voted to strip the extra money (58 -40) out for the F-22. Could be the final blow for the F-22. Sucks
| 1292 |
albusteve Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:44:11am |
his Humbleness is lying through his teeth, and so are many people around him...he's a proven, on the record liar
| 1293 |
avanti Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:44:19am |
re: #1269 Dianna
My mom told me I was pretty special, too.
So?
Well, for me, it gave me a big ego, and the belief that I could succeed at anything I wanted to.
| 1295 |
doppelganglander Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:44:33am |
re: #1273 iceweasel
You don't necessarily need money to be a grad student. All you need is to excel sufficiently that the universities fund you. that isn't easy. (this differs by subject and uni. She was a grad student in the humanities/soft sciences. She had to be damn good to get funding. )
Assuming she was getting funding. I don't know the answer to that.
| 1296 |
Dianna Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:44:36am |
re: #1284 avanti
Well, he was 10 years old, what was he up to.?
He started at 10, avanti. He was there for the rest of his regular school career.
| 1297 |
Walter L. Newton Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:44:54am |
re: #1291 Walter L. Newton
Ok, that just slipped out real fast. Charles, delete it if needed. Silly me.
| 1298 |
Creeping Eruption Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:45:03am |
re: #1289 iceweasel
the only people who noticed or stopped were kids. Isn't that interesting?
I thought so. Gotta love em'
| 1300 |
Pianobuff Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:45:15am |
| 1302 |
realwest Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:45:51am |
re: #1189 doppelganglanderWell I'm doing ok. But have become my own worst enemy, I'm afraid. I'm depressed, anxious, tense, scared and angry with myself for feeling that way.
I just want to do MORE than sit around and wait like this, I'd like to FIGHT HARDER, but medically speaking I don't have a choice.
Crap.
| 1303 |
capitalist piglet Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:46:11am |
| 1305 |
Cygnus Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:48:01am |
re: #1116 yma o hyd
Yes - we had a similar report about someone here in Cardiff.
People have been warned here, by charities for the homeless, not to give money to beggars because they will spend it on drugs. Its well documented, some back streets even in the middle of town are covered with syringes every morning.
They only ones I do give to are the buskers - especially when they genuinely play good stuff!
Sometimes I'll ask if they're hungry and then buy them a meal.
| 1306 |
Flyers1974 Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:48:12am |
| 1307 |
avanti Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:48:16am |
re: #1257 debutaunt
He managed to get into private school.
"Madelyn Dunham, Obama's grandmother, blazed a feminist trail in Hawaii banking circles in the late 1960s and early 1970s and rose to become one of the Bank of Hawaii's first female vice presidents."
"He did not come from privilege, but was able to attend the exclusive Punahou School based on his achievement and with the help of financial aid."
| 1309 |
BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:48:43am |
| 1310 |
Nevergiveup Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:48:53am |
We are all going to regret shit canning the F-22 line. I hope someone at least has the foresight to stock on parts before they blow up the tools and frames.
| 1311 |
avanti Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:49:16am |
Just in, F 22 stripped from defense bill by the Senate.
| 1312 |
albusteve Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:49:32am |
| 1314 |
Dianna Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:49:36am |
re: #1293 avanti
Well, for me, it gave me a big ego, and the belief that I could succeed at anything I wanted to.
Without working for it, just because you're so very special?
I didn't get that, but it sure looks like Obama did.
| 1315 |
KansasMom Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:49:56am |
re: #1297 Walter L. Newton
Ok, that just slipped out real fast. Charles, delete it if needed. Silly me.
I guess I'm a jerk too because I laughed pretty hard at that one!
| 1317 |
Beach Lover Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:50:32am |
{Realwest}
Glad you are here with us, tho!
Good Afternoon :-)
| 1318 |
Cygnus Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:50:44am |
re: #1117 capitalist piglet
About fifteen years ago, I was playing a gig at the Westin Hotel in downtown Seattle. I had to go into the ladies room to change clothes, and while I was there, a young woman remarked that she liked the dress I was wearing.
I explained what I was doing there, and to be courteous, I asked her what she did for a living. In a shockingly casual, cheerful, off-the-cuff way, she said, "I'm a panhandler. I like it!"
There was one guy in Seattle who had a sign that said 'My father was killed by Ninjas - need money for karate lessons'. Very funny!
I never gave money to anyone on the street again (though there is a favorite of mine who hangs out in Bellevue with a sign that says, "Why lie? Need money for beer.")...I give it to organizations instead.
| 1319 |
realwest Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:50:56am |
re: #1204 debutaunt
and
re: #1206 MandyManners
Yes of course he came from humble beginnings! Do you think it was easy for him to study for Columbia College and Harvard Law School by candle light in his log apartment?! And my goodness, how HARD he had to work to raise the tuition and book money and the rent on the log apartment!
Sheeesh, talk about ODS!
Good thing he married well.
/
| 1320 |
avanti Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:51:04am |
re: #1296 Dianna
He started at 10, avanti. He was there for the rest of his regular school career.
OK, that makes sense. I had read his partying days started in college, but it could well have started earlier.
| 1322 |
doppelganglander Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:51:17am |
re: #1302 realwest
Well I'm doing ok. But have become my own worst enemy, I'm afraid. I'm depressed, anxious, tense, scared and angry with myself for feeling that way.
I just want to do MORE than sit around and wait like this, I'd like to FIGHT HARDER, but medically speaking I don't have a choice.
Crap.
It must be hard when you've got the mental energy to fight, but the body just can't keep up. Maybe you can channel some of it into writing to your elected officials on the subject of health care. You have plenty of authority on that score. Anyway, you know we love you here and we're all pulling for you.
| 1323 |
dwells38 Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:51:21am |
re: #1208 Mad Al-Jaffee
I've heard that in Paris buskers have to audition before they are allowed to perform in public.
There's one thing I think the French got right. Who wants to hear some guy clamming through the changes to Yardbird Suite? Practice on your own time, I say!
| 1324 |
BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:51:25am |
re: #1308 Dianna
Given Frank Davis' autobiography, it implies that Obama's grandparents allowed him to be used as a catamite.
And yes, I think this comment should be deleted. It's too damned ugly an implication.
I thought it was funny precisely because it mocks the morons who want to take that line about the Frank Davis autobio.
Also, because it's just funny, and it's clear that Walter isn't implying anything of the sort and wouldn't.
But I'm a potty mouthed lib and all.
| 1325 |
Dianna Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:51:29am |
re: #1313 buzzsawmonkey
Don't quote remarks bound for deletion!
I've asked for mine to be deleted. I wish you hadn't quoted it.
| 1326 |
capitalist piglet Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:52:14am |
re: #1308 Dianna
Given Frank Davis' autobiography, it implies that Obama's grandparents allowed him to be used as a catamite.
And yes, I think this comment should be deleted. It's too damned ugly an implication.
Well, I wasn't aware of that, because I didn't read the book.
I was referring to Frank Marshall Davis's political influence on Obama. You are far too quick to divine the intent of others.
| 1327 |
Pianobuff Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:52:39am |
re: #1307 avanti
"He did not come from privilege, but was able to attend the exclusive Punahou School based on his achievement and with the help of financial aid."
You never responded to my earlier post... Do you yet understand the point of the original article that started this whole conversation? It was Obama's hypocrisy in ridiculing rich people when he himself is one. I have yet to hear you address this point...
| 1328 |
realwest Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:52:51am |
re: #1219 Flyers1974 Nine years? Not for a relative of POTUS it isn't. Probably more like nine hours.
| 1329 |
Walter L. Newton Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:53:02am |
re: #1315 KansasMom
I guess I'm a jerk too because I laughed pretty hard at that one!
Got it. I don't think there was anything wrong with my comment, but I did think it was wrong in the context of this blog and this thread. I rarely go in that direction when I am trying to be humorous, but it happens.
As I said above, sorry, and yes, Charles deleted it, as I asked.
| 1330 |
Dianna Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:53:03am |
re: #1316 buzzsawmonkey
Gah!
Ganymede, cupbearer to Zeus. I actually had to think about that one for a second.
| 1331 |
avanti Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:53:22am |
re: #1314 Dianna
Without working for it, just because you're so very special?
I didn't get that, but it sure looks like Obama did.
I don't agree that Obama did not work to get ahead. I personally think he did very well, thanks mostly to grandma.
| 1332 |
jcm Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:53:30am |
re: #1266 doppelganglander
I didn't read it that way. I saw it as enhancing the park experience for families; more use by respectable folks --> fewer criminals. It's probably cheaper and more pleasant than an increased police presence, too. But you do have a valid point.
That was left out of the media report, I'd have to dig up the Mayor's plan. But it wasn't primarily a "atmosphere or livability" thing, it was primarily an alternative to law enforcement.
| 1333 |
Kragar Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:53:31am |
re: #1250 Alouette
I think modern weddings have gotten completely out of hand. I was married in a ceremony in my parents' backyard.
Onslow Country Courthouse. Our witnesses were the Sheriff who just finished feeding the prisoners and the guy behind us in line waiting to pay a parking ticket. What more do you need?
| 1334 |
Dianna Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:53:36am |
re: #1326 capitalist piglet
Well, I wasn't aware of that, because I didn't read the book.
I was referring to Frank Marshall Davis's political influence on Obama. You are far too quick to divine the intent of others.
Blame Walter - he put me on that train of thought.
| 1335 |
sagehen Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:54:01am |
re: #1131 BlueCanuck
A busker is a musician that plays on the street for change. I don't consider those people beggars as they are giving value for money. However good they are depends on how much they make.
Sometimes they're a lot better than how much they make.
He played for 43 minutes, for a grand total of $32.17.
| 1336 |
doppelganglander Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:54:20am |
re: #1324 iceweasel
That's a pretty strange sense of humor if you think sexual abuse of children is to be made light of. At least Walter had the decency to apologize and request deletion.
| 1337 |
Walter L. Newton Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:54:20am |
| 1338 |
Beach Lover Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:54:57am |
Oh here is the man of the hour...happy that he "won" on the stripping of the F-22.
Guess he doesnt like that he is not getting his way with the healthcare...so he is gonna pout and stomp his feet.
| 1339 |
Nevergiveup Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:55:21am |
This jack ass is talking about saving 1.8 billion by not building F-22's that ultimately we are going to need after it is estimated we are throwing 23 trillion away on bailouts? Somebody please wake me up from this nightmare?
| 1340 |
lawhawk Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:55:27am |
re: #1311 avanti
How many people are working on the F-22 project who will now have to find work elsewhere as the company closes down production for want of $1.75 billion, which would strengthen our national security?
The F-22 employs 1,800 in Dallas/Fort Worth alone. Tens of thousands more work on the project nationwide, although I can't put an exact figure on it.
This is real stimulus, and yet it's getting whacked.
| 1342 |
jcm Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:56:54am |
re: #1340 lawhawk
How many people are working on the F-22 project who will now have to find work elsewhere as the company closes down production for want of $1.75 billion, which would strengthen our national security?
The F-22 employs 1,800 in Dallas/Fort Worth alone. Tens of thousands more work on the project nationwide, although I can't put an exact figure on it.
This is real stimulus, and yet it's getting whacked.
Real stimulus.
Real defense.
Real technology.
We get ham instead.
| 1343 |
Nevergiveup Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:56:57am |
He is lying flat out about keeping the plan you have now? Oh well sorry I see his lips are moving so scratch that first thought
| 1345 |
capitalist piglet Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:57:17am |
| 1346 |
Walter L. Newton Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:57:23am |
re: #1340 lawhawk
How many people are working on the F-22 project who will now have to find work elsewhere as the company closes down production for want of $1.75 billion, which would strengthen our national security?
The F-22 employs 1,800 in Dallas/Fort Worth alone. Tens of thousands more work on the project nationwide, although I can't put an exact figure on it.
This is real stimulus, and yet it's getting whacked.
Those people can get green jobs, like putting weatherstripping on homes, or waving fans to cool our senators when Obama turns the air conditioning off in Congress.
| 1347 |
capitalist piglet Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:58:06am |
| 1348 |
midwestgak Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:58:08am |
re: #1302 realwest
{real} You have lost physical strength and ability. Uncertainty looms. That is hard for anyone to live with. But live you do. Focus on what you still have control of. Something as simple as visiting LGF each day.
| 1349 |
KansasMom Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:58:15am |
re: #1340 lawhawk
How many people are working on the F-22 project who will now have to find work elsewhere as the company closes down production for want of $1.75 billion, which would strengthen our national security?
The F-22 employs 1,800 in Dallas/Fort Worth alone. Tens of thousands more work on the project nationwide, although I can't put an exact figure on it.
This is real stimulus, and yet it's getting whacked.
Shit. Not like there's a bunch of aviation jobs out there right now either. First they villifiy business jets, now they cut the military aircraft programs. Not good.
| 1350 |
Nevergiveup Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:58:17am |
re: #1346 Walter L. Newton
Those people can get green jobs, like putting weatherstripping on homes, or waving fans to cool our senators when Obama turns the air conditioning off in Congress.
No congress will still be air conditioned, it's our houses that wil be hot
| 1352 |
albusteve Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:58:58am |
re: #1342 jcm
Real stimulus.
Real defense.
Real technology.We get ham instead.
liberals have a different reality...2+2=5
| 1353 |
realwest Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:59:27am |
re: #1310 Nevergiveup
Do you have a roll call vote on that F-22 vote?
| 1354 |
J.S. Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:59:32am |
re: #1282 Creeping Eruption
I missed (didn't see) the video... :(
| 1355 |
BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:59:47am |
re: #1336 doppelganglander
That's a pretty strange sense of humor if you think sexual abuse of children is to be made light of. At least Walter had the decency to apologize and request deletion.
That's ridiculous. Obviously no one here is making light of the sexual abuse of children. Walter wasn't either, btw.
| 1356 |
Flyers1974 Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:59:52am |
re: #1328 realwest
Nine years? Not for a relative of POTUS it isn't. Probably more like nine hours.
No doubt about it. People would be furious, however, and not just Republicans, I think. Too blatant an exercise of privilege and no way to deny it as such - the State Department's visa bulletin states the expected backlog to the month and year.
| 1357 |
albusteve Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:59:57am |
re: #1345 capitalist piglet
No, I won't blame Walter.
Walter is a closet Neanderthal...he gets a pass
| 1358 |
avanti Tue, Jul 21, 2009 9:59:59am |
re: #1327 Pianobuff
You never responded to my earlier post... Do you yet understand the point of the original article that started this whole conversation? It was Obama's hypocrisy in ridiculing rich people when he himself is one. I have yet to hear you address this point...
I never heard him ridicule rich people. He's always said those that are rich like him can afford a marginal tax increase.
| 1359 |
Dianna Tue, Jul 21, 2009 10:00:09am |
re: #1324 iceweasel
I don't think the notion of a kid being even possibly sexually exploited is funny.
| 1360 |
Kosh's Shadow Tue, Jul 21, 2009 10:00:25am |
re: #1351 buzzsawmonkey
"Those are not the saved jobs we're looking for."
--Obamawan Kenobi
Well, light sabers aren't going to help against the Death Star. You need X-wing fighters.
| 1361 |
Kragar Tue, Jul 21, 2009 10:00:40am |
re: #1346 Walter L. Newton
Those people can get green jobs, like putting weatherstripping on homes, or waving fans to cool our senators when Obama turns the air conditioning off in Congress.
They could also get jobs as litterbearers, cup bearers or bringing fruits to our rulers.
| 1362 |
Dianna Tue, Jul 21, 2009 10:01:14am |
re: #1341 jcm
Frank Marshall Davis, in his book.
No, duh. Or maybe you didn't understand why I thought the remark out of line?
| 1365 |
Son of the Black Dog Tue, Jul 21, 2009 10:01:44am |
re: #1277 Kosh's Shadow
Unfortunately,
in some fieldsin any field other than Wal*Mart greeter, it can be hard for someone "older" to get a job.
| 1366 |
avanti Tue, Jul 21, 2009 10:02:08am |
re: #1338 Beach Lover
Gates won, he decided to end F 22 production last spring. Gates has a vision for remaking the military for this century, and the POTUS is backing him.
| 1367 |
Creeping Eruption Tue, Jul 21, 2009 10:02:17am |
re: #1342 jcm
Real stimulus.
Real defense.
Real technology.We get ham instead.
I think your complaints are a little ham-handed. It is all a little more complicated than that./
| 1368 |
Flyers1974 Tue, Jul 21, 2009 10:02:49am |
re: #1355 iceweasel
In my case, I just think the word "anal" is funny.
| 1369 |
Dianna Tue, Jul 21, 2009 10:03:06am |
re: #1345 capitalist piglet
No, I won't blame Walter.
Fine. Whatever.
Be touchy. Take every possible opportunity to take offense at any little thing I say. Have a whole hell of a lot of fun with it. I hope it makes you feel all warm and fuzzy and puffed up with righteous indignation.
Have right at it.
| 1370 |
Walter L. Newton Tue, Jul 21, 2009 10:03:09am |
re: #1363 buzzsawmonkey
Turning the air conditioning off in Congress--in fact, throughout all government offices--would be an excellent idea.
Used to be Congress would be in recess most of the summer, because unair-conditioned Washington is very hot and humid. Getting rid of the AC would save money, remind the government functionaries what they are trying to inflict on their constituents, and ensure that Congress did less, all of which would only be a plus.
What a bitch though, Dumont Circle would be crowded.
| 1371 |
Kosh's Shadow Tue, Jul 21, 2009 10:03:11am |
re: #1365 Son of the Black Dog
I guess I'd better start practicing "Welcome to Wal-Mart"
///
| 1373 |
midwestgak Tue, Jul 21, 2009 10:03:17am |
re: #1357 albusteve
Walter is a closet Neanderthal...he gets a pass
Walter is that guy in the Geico commercial?
| 1374 |
jcm Tue, Jul 21, 2009 10:03:19am |
re: #1362 Dianna
No, duh. Or maybe you didn't understand why I thought the remark out of line?
Did I miss something? Sorry!
| 1375 |
Walter L. Newton Tue, Jul 21, 2009 10:03:20am |
| 1376 |
BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Jul 21, 2009 10:03:45am |
re: #1359 Dianna
I don't think the notion of a kid being even possibly sexually exploited is funny.
Ditto. You can also sign on to the legion of people who agree that water is wet.
| 1377 |
Creeping Eruption Tue, Jul 21, 2009 10:03:46am |
re: #1354 J.S.
I missed (didn't see) the video... :(
WaPo archive has it, at least they used to. Search for Joshua Bell and the article should pop up. The video is embedded in the article.
| 1378 |
RunningBare Tue, Jul 21, 2009 10:03:49am |
re: #1336 doppelganglander
That's a pretty strange sense of humor if you think sexual abuse of children is to be made light of. At least Walter had the decency to apologize and request deletion.
In Frank Marshall Davis' book, and in Obama's own book, "Dreams...", it is mentioned that Frank began mentoring (i.e. hanging around with...) Obama around the age of 10. I must have missed the part about sexual abuse of children by the posters here - unless you are referring to Frank Marshall Davis' admissions of having sex with a 13 year old girl, in which case, yeah, there's nothing even remotely funny about THAT.
| 1379 |
albusteve Tue, Jul 21, 2009 10:04:16am |
re: #1366 avanti
Gates won, he decided to end F 22 production last spring. Gates has a vision for remaking the military for this century, and the POTUS is backing him.
why is 1.5b so much money now?...it's pocket change...the purpose for dumping the plane is childish ideology...
| 1380 |
Walter L. Newton Tue, Jul 21, 2009 10:04:22am |
| 1381 |
Beach Lover Tue, Jul 21, 2009 10:04:25am |
he just said "if you change jobs you wont lose your coverage". IIRC, on pg 16 of the bill if states otherwise. Could it be that not losing coverage is not the same thing as having a "choice" of what that coverage would be?
| 1382 |
Nevergiveup Tue, Jul 21, 2009 10:04:35am |
re: #1366 avanti
Gates won, he decided to end F 22 production last spring. Gates has a vision for remaking the military for this century, and the POTUS is backing him.
gates measures were the wind is blowing and takes his cues
| 1383 |
lawhawk Tue, Jul 21, 2009 10:04:35am |
re: #1366 avanti
Gates won, he decided to end F 22 production last spring. Gates has a vision for remaking the military for this century, and the POTUS is backing him.
The Defense Secretary works for the President, not the other way around, last time I checked. Obama gave him the priorities, and this is what Gates came up with.
| 1385 |
reine.de.tout Tue, Jul 21, 2009 10:05:01am |
re: #1359 Dianna
I don't think the notion of a kid being even possibly sexually exploited is funny.
re: #1336 doppelganglander
That's a pretty strange sense of humor if you think sexual abuse of children is to be made light of. At least Walter had the decency to apologize and request deletion.
I with both of you on this; this was not a funny comment at all, and Walter immediately understood his comment was out of line and admitted it, requested deletion. I am perfectly happy to be unsophisticated enough not to understand the humor of a remark like that.
| 1386 |
BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Jul 21, 2009 10:05:09am |
| 1387 |
Dianna Tue, Jul 21, 2009 10:05:34am |
re: #1376 iceweasel
Ditto. You can also sign on to the legion of people who agree that water is wet.
Evidently, you're not among them.
| 1388 |
avanti Tue, Jul 21, 2009 10:05:43am |
re: #1275 taxfreekiller
where o where did avanti get his data base?
high speed, on line, alpa and subject indexedmust have been some large DNC operation
My staff here at the White House is using a secret Al Gore invention./s
| 1389 |
Cygnus Tue, Jul 21, 2009 10:06:02am |
re: #1262 Creeping Eruption
Good morning
Just pooping in so do not know if this was linked yet: Amateur Finds New Earth-Sized Blot on Jupiter
I'm going to a star party this weekend so I'll be sure to look for it. Shoemaker-Levy was incredible. We had telescopes set up at a Seattle park and hundreds of people showed up to take a peek. Truly an amazing sight.
| 1391 |
Flyers1974 Tue, Jul 21, 2009 10:06:27am |
re: #1376 iceweasel
Ditto. You can also sign on to the legion of people who agree that water is wet.
What if that water is in ICE form?
| 1392 |
BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Jul 21, 2009 10:06:31am |
re: #1380 Walter L. Newton
Ok, I made a mistake, I said I was sorry, what's with the gauntlet of snide assed comments? Go pick on Avanti or something.
Some people are too anal to find any humour in what you said.
| 1393 |
haakondahl Tue, Jul 21, 2009 10:06:32am |
re: #276 Gus 802
To be honest, I was rather outraged with the response. Not only from the executive branch but from Secretary Brown, and the rest of the government bodies including cities, counties, and state. Finally when they put in place Lt. Gen. Russel Honore as commander of Joint Task Force Katrina things began to move in the right direction.
He was magnificent. They needed him because a Federal response to a natural disaster is not geared to respond in the nearly complete absence of preparation or recovery actions on the part of the City and State. Remember when LTG Honore told his men to keep their weapons at the low ready, not raised? The Guard should not have been patrolling in that manner to begin with--they should have been backing up the police in case force (or a show thereof) was needed. Some of the NOPD performed magnificently as individuals, but as an organization, it was run no better than mostof the City. Or the State for that matter.
Most of what went wrong with the Federal response was due to their having to backtrack in the absence of preparatory or first-responder actions by huge swaths of the City and State apparatus. You don't expect the Feds to come in with a back-of-my-hand knowledge of people, places, resources, and so forth on site--that's what the locals should be providing.
The reason (iceweasel mentioned this) we saw three days of third-world imagery from New Orleans was that the Federal response was dropped into a place that had been run like a third-world country for DECADES.
It's a good thing for Chicago that they don't typically get hurricanes up there.
| 1395 |
albusteve Tue, Jul 21, 2009 10:07:23am |
re: #1380 Walter L. Newton
Ok, I made a mistake, I said I was sorry, what's with the gauntlet of snide assed comments? Go pick on Avanti or something.
he's no fun
| 1396 |
realwest Tue, Jul 21, 2009 10:07:33am |
re: #1322 doppelganglander "Anyway, you know we love you here and we're all pulling for you."
I do know that and it really does help, a lot. It is very much appreciated.
BUT if y'all love me so much, how come I didn't get one upding -NOT EVEN ONE - for my #1319
which was, I must say, hilarious!? HUH?Just kidding but not about the help and appreciation to all out here who've been so kind.
| 1397 |
BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Jul 21, 2009 10:07:54am |
re: #1391 Flyers1974
What if that water is in ICE form?
Then I'd definitely be deleted for my recommendations about what to do with it. :(
| 1398 |
midwestgak Tue, Jul 21, 2009 10:08:16am |
re: #1380 Walter L. Newton
Ok, I made a mistake, I said I was sorry, what's with the gauntlet of snide assed comments? Go pick on Avanti or something.
Whoa Walter. No snide intended on my part towards you. Just responding to the Neanderthal thingy. Peace.
| 1399 |
RunningBare Tue, Jul 21, 2009 10:08:21am |
re: #1390 buzzsawmonkey
No need to bring up sexual speculations.
We have, however, established that Obama was gently reared in middle class surroundings.
I agree with that. I just felt that CP's comment about "Hanging around with Uncle Frank" was not sexual in nature. It was just a truthful, factual statement that both parties (Frank and Obama) spoke about at various times in books and/or interviews.
| 1400 |
Beach Lover Tue, Jul 21, 2009 10:08:43am |
re: #1366 avanti
I'm not arguing one way or the other on the F22. I just think it funny that he will call a press conference to be on TV to tout his "win" (so many others on both sides agreed with him), when he is losing all the big ones!
I might add that they may have voted against putting the money into the F22, in hopes of getting more fro the newer version...uh, good luck with that, guys!
| 1401 |
Walter L. Newton Tue, Jul 21, 2009 10:08:46am |
re: #1392 iceweasel
Some people are too anal to find any humour in what you said.
My comment was actually meant to be a slam on radical Islam and some of it's practices and what passes for "normal" with some in that culture. But, after I posted it, I realize right away, it was too terse of a comment, and it could be taken the wrong way. Which it was, in most cases.
That's why I asked for a deletion.
| 1402 |
BlueCanuck Tue, Jul 21, 2009 10:09:15am |
re: #1366 avanti
Gates won, he decided to end F 22 production last spring. Gates has a vision for remaking the military for this century, and the POTUS is backing him.
This century? They should be looking further ahead then that. And yes they are remaking the military. I don't think anyone is going to like what it's remade into. I have never trusted liberals, progressives, or leftists with the purse strings of military spending. Look what 10 years of Trudeau did to Canadas army.
| 1404 |
avanti Tue, Jul 21, 2009 10:09:54am |
re: #1380 Walter L. Newton
Ok, I made a mistake, I said I was sorry, what's with the gauntlet of snide assed comments? Go pick on Avanti or something.
Like my joke that offended Mandy and others, I don't think Walter was being intentionally malicious. I don't think what you type always shows your heart and I'd guess he was just trying to make a funny comment and it came off badly. I'm for letting it pass.
| 1405 |
solomonpanting Tue, Jul 21, 2009 10:10:31am |
re: #1392 iceweasel
Some people are too anal to find any humour in what you said.
History is knocking at your door (front, back). You may go down in the anals of history.
| 1408 |
Walter L. Newton Tue, Jul 21, 2009 10:10:51am |
re: #1404 avanti
Like my joke that offended Mandy and others, I don't think Walter was being intentionally malicious. I don't think what you type always shows your heart and I'd guess he was just trying to make a funny comment and it came off badly. I'm for letting it pass.
No, I was trying to be sarcastic, but I missed... see my #1401
| 1410 |
reine.de.tout Tue, Jul 21, 2009 10:11:30am |
re: #1393 haakondahl
He was magnificent. They needed him because a Federal response to a natural disaster is not geared to respond in the nearly complete absence of preparation or recovery actions on the part of the City and State. Remember when LTG Honore told his men to keep their weapons at the low ready, not raised? The Guard should not have been patrolling in that manner to begin with--they should have been backing up the police in case force (or a show thereof) was needed. Some of the NOPD performed magnificently as individuals, but as an organization, it was run no better than mostof the City. Or the State for that matter.
Most of what went wrong with the Federal response was due to their having to backtrack in the absence of preparatory or first-responder actions by huge swaths of the City and State apparatus. You don't expect the Feds to come in with a back-of-my-hand knowledge of people, places, resources, and so forth on site--that's what the locals should be providing.
The reason (iceweasel mentioned this) we saw three days of third-world imagery from New Orleans was that the Federal response was dropped into a place that had been run like a third-world country for DECADES.
It's a good thing for Chicago that they don't typically get hurricanes up there.
Remember that many of the sworn law-enforcement officers in NO abandoned their postioins. Nagin himself was in Dallas with his family. Add to that a few police-thugs who themselves were involved in looting, etc - yes, N.O. local authorities provided precious little, and weren't even there.
| 1411 |
capitalist piglet Tue, Jul 21, 2009 10:12:08am |
re: #1399 RunningBare
I agree with that. I just felt that CP's comment about "Hanging around with Uncle Frank" was not sexual in nature. It was just a truthful, factual statement that both parties (Frank and Obama) spoke about at various times in books and/or interviews.
It wasn't. I didn't even know there was a sexual implication to make.
| 1412 |
Cygnus Tue, Jul 21, 2009 10:12:10am |
re: #1350 Nevergiveup
No congress will still be air conditioned, it's our houses that wil be hot
But they really need AC, with all the hot air that's produced there.
| 1413 |
avanti Tue, Jul 21, 2009 10:12:15am |
re: #1400 Beach Lover
The TV appearance was about health care, he just passed on the breaking news at the beginning.
| 1415 |
avanti Tue, Jul 21, 2009 10:12:52am |
| 1416 |
realwest Tue, Jul 21, 2009 10:13:09am |
re: #1340 lawhawk
Well, as I said before, who needs Air Superiority anyway?!?
| 1417 |
quickjustice Tue, Jul 21, 2009 10:13:33am |
re: #1410 reine.de.tout
My understanding is that the Louisiana National Guard saved thousands of lives in the aftermath of Katrina, and was, in fact, magnificent.
| 1419 |
BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Jul 21, 2009 10:14:44am |
re: #1405 solomonpanting
History is knocking at your door (front, back). You may go down in the anals of history.
As ever, some go down in history and some rise.
| 1420 |
rightside Tue, Jul 21, 2009 10:14:51am |
re: #1410 reine.de.tout
Didn't they discover that some of the PD weren't actual persons, merely names ginned up so someone could siphon off money?
| 1421 |
quickjustice Tue, Jul 21, 2009 10:14:53am |
re: #1414 buzzsawmonkey
"Dirty minds"? Are you confusing "reared" with "rear-ended"?
| 1422 |
RunningBare Tue, Jul 21, 2009 10:14:55am |
re: #1411 capitalist piglet
It wasn't. I didn't even know there was a sexual implication to make.
You and me both. First I've heard of that implication.
I guess you should have just been more specific and in response to "What was he doign when he was 10 years old?", replied "Hanging around with a communist agitating race-baiter named Frank Marshall, whome he referred to as 'Uncle Frank'" just to be sure that people didn't immediately "go there".
| 1424 |
Nevergiveup Tue, Jul 21, 2009 10:16:36am |
re: #1400 Beach Lover
I'm not arguing one way or the other on the F22. I just think it funny that he will call a press conference to be on TV to tout his "win" (so many others on both sides agreed with him), when he is losing all the big ones!
I might add that they may have voted against putting the money into the F22, in hopes of getting more fro the newer version...uh, good luck with that, guys!
What newer version?
| 1425 |
Flyers1974 Tue, Jul 21, 2009 10:16:57am |
re: #1404 avanti
In situations where people are joking, I think its all about intent. If I don't know the person, I try not to interpret their intent in the worst possible light.
| 1426 |
Beach Lover Tue, Jul 21, 2009 10:17:02am |
| 1427 |
lobo91 Tue, Jul 21, 2009 10:17:52am |
re: #1416 realwest
Well, as I said before, who needs Air Superiority anyway?!?
Besides, everyone loves us now, right?
| 1428 |
capitalist piglet Tue, Jul 21, 2009 10:18:20am |
re: #1422 RunningBare
You and me both. First I've heard of that implication.
I guess you should have just been more specific and in response to "What was he doign when he was 10 years old?", replied "Hanging around with a communist agitating race-baiter named Frank Marshall, whome he referred to as 'Uncle Frank'" just to be sure that people didn't immediately "go there".
I'll know better next time.
| 1429 |
reine.de.tout Tue, Jul 21, 2009 10:18:22am |
re: #1417 quickjustice
My understanding is that the Louisiana National Guard saved thousands of lives in the aftermath of Katrina, and was, in fact, magnificent.
The La Nat'l Guard AND the State Dept of Wildlife & Fisheries employees.
City employees were less than useless.
| 1430 |
reine.de.tout Tue, Jul 21, 2009 10:19:19am |
re: #1420 rightside
Didn't they discover that some of the PD weren't actual persons, merely names ginned up so someone could siphon off money?
I don't recall that. But it would not surprise me.
| 1431 |
Beach Lover Tue, Jul 21, 2009 10:19:19am |
re: #1424 Nevergiveup
I dont remember what it was they reported this morning on FNC, but something that most in the military (the report said) think would be more effective in the future.
| 1433 |
jcm Tue, Jul 21, 2009 10:20:20am |
re: #1416 realwest
Well, as I said before, who needs Air Superiority anyway?!?
It's not fair, air equality is the wave of the future.
| 1434 |
albusteve Tue, Jul 21, 2009 10:20:27am |
re: #1425 Flyers1974
In situations where people are joking, I think its all about intent. If I don't know the person, I try not to interpret their intent in the worst possible light.
when I call someone a Neanderthal, it's a compliment...if I had to explain why then you would never be one
| 1435 |
Nevergiveup Tue, Jul 21, 2009 10:20:42am |
re: #1431 Beach Lover
I dont remember what it was they reported this morning on FNC, but something that most in the military (the report said) think would be more effective in the future.
Ah, I never heard anything like that at all
| 1436 |
reine.de.tout Tue, Jul 21, 2009 10:21:10am |
re: #1417 quickjustice
My understanding is that the Louisiana National Guard saved thousands of lives in the aftermath of Katrina, and was, in fact, magnificent.
I was talking specifically about city employees.
The Nat'l Guard and the state folks were magnificent.
City law enforcement mainly abandoned ship.
| 1437 |
avanti Tue, Jul 21, 2009 10:21:53am |
re: #1425 Flyers1974
In situations where people are joking, I think its all about intent. If I don't know the person, I try not to interpret their intent in the worst possible light.
That is a good plan, we can be too PC inferring intent. By limiting jokes to those that can't be spun to offend someone, someway, is pretty difficult.
| 1438 |
rightside Tue, Jul 21, 2009 10:22:48am |
re: #1430 reine.de.tout
I seem to remember something about it and will search for it. Basically, they padded the rolls of the police.
| 1439 |
capitalist piglet Tue, Jul 21, 2009 10:23:28am |
re: #1437 avanti
That is a good plan, we can be too PC inferring intent. By limiting jokes to those that can't be spun to offend someone, someway, is pretty difficult.
Pack your bags, Jesus is coming. The liberals are making sense to me. ; )
| 1440 |
BlueCanuck Tue, Jul 21, 2009 10:23:35am |
re: #1432 realwest
What army?!?
/
You can remove the sarc tag. At one point most military members felt the same way. In fact you were capable of fitting the entire Canadian Armed forces in the Sky Dome (now Rogers Center), including reservists.
/still hasn't increased in size, but we have better tools.
| 1441 |
realwest Tue, Jul 21, 2009 10:23:46am |
Well it's been ...real. Actually the LGF DT's have more information, humor and educational value than any other BLOG I know of.
But I gotta go now. Hope you all have a great day and that I get the chance to see you all down the road.
| 1442 |
RunningBare Tue, Jul 21, 2009 10:26:23am |
re: #1437 avanti
That is a good plan, we can be too PC inferring intent. By limiting jokes to those that can't be spun to offend someone, someway, is pretty difficult.
Someone is always going to be offended by something, it seems. The part I hate, though, is that when they are offended it, it is because of how THEY took it, read it, etc... and not how the person posting it intended it, and somehow, the poster is the problem, and not the one thinking of it in a bad way. Good grief.
| 1443 |
Flyers1974 Tue, Jul 21, 2009 10:26:55am |
re: #1416 realwest
Realwest, a question if I may. Regarding the F-22, I was watching one of those "top ten fighter planes of all times" shows. The idea was to consider context of the times, not head-to-head competition. The F-22 made the final spot and was critisized for being better than needed for the next 20 or 30 years (and thus more expensive than needed.) And that the better course would have been to update our existing planes, the money being better off spent elsewhere. This was just one military analyst of course, but any truth to that opinion? Bear in mind, I'm not advocating either way, I don't know enough about the subject to give my own opinion.
| 1444 |
lobo91 Tue, Jul 21, 2009 10:26:58am |
re: #1435 Nevergiveup
Ah, I never heard anything like that at all
They're talking about the F-35, the main advantage of which is its price.
| 1445 |
BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Jul 21, 2009 10:32:11am |
re: #1442 RunningBare
Someone is always going to be offended by something, it seems. The part I hate, though, is that when they are offended it, it is because of how THEY took it, read it, etc... and not how the person posting it intended it, and somehow, the poster is the problem, and not the one thinking of it in a bad way. Good grief.
Happens all the time, unfortunately.
| 1446 |
RunningBare Tue, Jul 21, 2009 10:33:53am |
re: #1369 Dianna
Fine. Whatever.
Be touchy. Take every possible opportunity to take offense at any little thing I say. Have a whole hell of a lot of fun with it. I hope it makes you feel all warm and fuzzy and puffed up with righteous indignation.
Have right at it.
I thought this needed addressing, because this is a classic case of the pot calling the kettle black (and before you get offended by that, realize that I'm nto using "black" in a racist way...).
Hope this helps, and hopefully the rest of your day is filled with happiness, and nothing else offends you so grieviously. Have a nice day (and before you get offended again, that isn't sarcasm. It's genuine.)
:)
| 1447 |
RunningBare Tue, Jul 21, 2009 10:34:33am |
re: #1445 iceweasel
Happens all the time, unfortunately.
WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY THAT? *shakes fist, makes angry face*
| 1448 |
capitalist piglet Tue, Jul 21, 2009 10:35:04am |
re: #1369 Dianna
Fine. Whatever.
Be touchy. Take every possible opportunity to take offense at any little thing I say. Have a whole hell of a lot of fun with it. I hope it makes you feel all warm and fuzzy and puffed up with righteous indignation.
Have right at it.
WTF?
You leave everyone with the impression that I joked about child abuse, when I did nothing of the sort, and now you're pissed.
Yeah, that makes sense.
If you don't have an apology to offer me (other than, "Blame Walter", I mean), then we should probably just drop it.
| 1449 |
lobo91 Tue, Jul 21, 2009 10:35:34am |
re: #1443 Flyers1974
Realwest, a question if I may. Regarding the F-22, I was watching one of those "top ten fighter planes of all times" shows. The idea was to consider context of the times, not head-to-head competition. The F-22 made the final spot and was critisized for being better than needed for the next 20 or 30 years (and thus more expensive than needed.) And that the better course would have been to update our existing planes, the money being better off spent elsewhere. This was just one military analyst of course, but any truth to that opinion? Bear in mind, I'm not advocating either way, I don't know enough about the subject to give my own opinion.
It's a nice theory, but hard to do in practice. The "existing planes" in question, the F-15 and F-16, are late-60's designs that have pretty much reached the limit of upgradability.
The current F-15 fleet is also reaching the point where it needs to be retired due to age. Most of them were built in the 1980s, and the wings are literally starting to fall off of them.
| 1450 |
BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Jul 21, 2009 10:39:50am |
re: #1447 RunningBare
WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY THAT? *shakes fist, makes angry face*
Heh. Exactly,
let's all let this drop and stop hitting walter for an implication he DIDN'T make, and no one else here would intend either when finding it funny. I don't mean you, obviously!
*hums, looks at sky, kicks rock*
| 1451 |
Pianobuff Tue, Jul 21, 2009 10:39:50am |
re: #1358 avanti
I never heard him ridicule rich people. He's always said those that are rich like him can afford a marginal tax increase.
So you really did not read the article that MM linked then, did you?
At a campaign appearance in Chester, Va., on Thursday morning, Obama said: “Somebody asked John McCain, ‘How many houses do you have?’ And he said, I’m not sure. I’ll have to check with my staff. True quote: I’m not sure, I’ll have to check with my staff. So they asked his staff and he said, at least four. At least four! …“If you’re like me and you’ve got one house – or you were like the millions of people who are struggling right now to keep up with their mortgage so that they don’t lose their home — you might have a different perspective. By the way, the answer is: John McCain has seven homes. So there’s just a fundamental gap of understanding between John McCain’s world and what people are going through every single day here in America.”
No ridicule? Indeed.
| 1452 |
jvic Tue, Jul 21, 2009 10:40:15am |
| 1453 |
Flyers1974 Tue, Jul 21, 2009 10:40:25am |
re: #1449 lobo91
Thanks for that. For what the show's conclusions were worth, and obviously its not scientific, but the P-51 came in number one. For providing exactly what was needed at the time.
| 1454 |
RunningBare Tue, Jul 21, 2009 10:43:12am |
re: #1450 iceweasel
Heh. Exactly,
let's all let this drop and stop hitting walter for an implication he DIDN'T make, and no one else here would intend either when finding it funny. I don't mean you, obviously!
*hums, looks at sky, kicks rock*
I'm not hittin' Walter. :0) I'm a bit ticked that Dianna has made people believe that CP made a sexual abuse joke, when she didn't, and then got all indignant when called on it, so I figured I'd say my piece about it.
That said, I think I've made my point, and I can move on from this unfortunate incident.
*looks back thru post to see if anything could be construed in a manner that would be offensive to someone, realizes he doesn't care, and hits 'post'*
| 1456 |
BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Jul 21, 2009 10:45:29am |
re: #1455 Flyers1974
Naughty weasel.
Like I haven't heard that before. ///
BTW, I think all uses of the a word are deleted. (!!!)
| 1457 |
lobo91 Tue, Jul 21, 2009 10:46:22am |
re: #1453 Flyers1974
Thanks for that. For what the show's conclusions were worth, and obviously its not scientific, but the P-51 came in number one. For providing exactly what was needed at the time.
That's pretty much the key thing to keep in mind when looking at comparisons like that. It's no different when comparing cars from different eras.
I used to have a '67 Mustang. For its time, it was a great car. If Ford tried to release it today, of course, it wouldn't sell (or be allowed to be sold, because of improved safety, emissions, and other standards).
I could probably take the engine and transmission out of the 2007 Mustang that's in my garage right now and stuff them into a '67, but it would still be a 42 year old car. Something else would just break.
| 1458 |
RunningBare Tue, Jul 21, 2009 10:46:32am |
re: #1455 Flyers1974
Naughty weasel.
Was that a masterbation joke? HUH? HUH? WAS IT? ANSWER ME!!!1!
;)
| 1459 |
BARACK THE VOTE Tue, Jul 21, 2009 10:51:19am |
re: #1458 RunningBare
Was that a masterbation joke? HUH? HUH? WAS IT? ANSWER ME!!!1!
;)
Nobody would whack their weasel here. Surely!
Ferrets may be fingered, marsupials molested, coati coaxed. Etc.
| 1460 |
jcm Tue, Jul 21, 2009 11:09:18am |
re: #1444 lobo91
They're talking about the F-35, the main advantage of which is its price.
'cept that the -35 and -22 have different roles. They were designed to work together, the -35 can't fullfill the role of the -22. The -22 clears they work cooperatively, one clearing the skies the other ground threats.
Not having enough -22 makes the -35 more vulnerable in a combat situation. Additionally not have enough -22 is going to increase the cycle time, wearing them out faster. When they're worn out the production line is gone. Second having to few will make it harder to put them at risk, they'll be so valuable they be withheld from use except in the most dire situation, putting other aircraft crews and ground troops at risk.
| 1461 |
JustMyView Tue, Jul 21, 2009 11:12:55am |
re: #1460 jcm
'cept that the -35 and -22 have different roles. They were designed to work together, the -35 can't fullfill the role of the -22. The -22 clears they work cooperatively, one clearing the skies the other ground threats.
Not having enough -22 makes the -35 more vulnerable in a combat situation. Additionally not have enough -22 is going to increase the cycle time, wearing them out faster. When they're worn out the production line is gone. Second having to few will make it harder to put them at risk, they'll be so valuable they be withheld from use except in the most dire situation, putting other aircraft crews and ground troops at risk.
They already have 187 F-22s, and in nearly eight years of war, they haven't found a use for them. It's not only Gates and Obama who have said they didn't need more F-22s, but the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs and other military leaders as well.
| 1462 |
jcm Tue, Jul 21, 2009 11:24:16am |
re: #1461 JustMyView
Current fighters the -15s, -16s and -18s are increasing vulnerable to increasingly upgraded OpFor inventories.
So much so the chances an OpFor might decide to challenge us increase. The -22 protects our military personnel, decreases the likely hood that a conflict will start. It defends us.
The more "equal" we are with other forces the greater the chance of conflict.
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