Nirthers on Television

Weird • Views: 2,533

Unbelievable. Now the Christian far right is heavily promoting the mind-bogglingly dim Birther conspiracy theory, with an IQ-destroying infomercial produced by Live Prayer (the site has a picture of President Obama with the caption “God’s Enemy”) and Gary Kreep (yes, really!) of the United States Justice Foundation.

For a mere $30.00 US, you too can advertise to the world that you’re an idiot, with a shiny new “Where’s the Birth Certificate?” bumper sticker!

There’s no stopping them.

Youtube Video

TPM has further information on this moronic convergence.

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536 comments
1 MandyManners  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 10:30:29am

"God's enemy"?

2 erraticsphinx  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 10:32:14am

A fool and his money are easily parted.

3 Kronocide  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 10:32:34am

It's a Dearth of Nirth. Let me pour another cup of coffee.

4 Shiplord Kirel  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 10:32:41am

I saw this late last Saturday night on KAMC TV in Lubbock and commented about it here. I had missed some of the details though, especially the involvement of the aptly Kreep.

5 MandyManners  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 10:33:27am

This kind of arrogance knows no bounds.

6 karmic_inquisitor  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 10:33:32am

There is only one conclusive identification of an enemy that this effort has produced: Live Prayer is the enemy of Rationality.

7 Shiplord Kirel  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 10:33:43am

"Aptly NAMED Kreep"
pimf

8 Irish Rose  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 10:34:25am

Disco anyone?

9 MandyManners  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 10:34:53am

Why don't they focus on his policies? Goodness knows there's plenty to worry about there instead of pissing away their energy on this.

10 erraticsphinx  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 10:34:57am

30 Bucks for a fax and...a bumper sticker.

People this stupid actually exist?

11 Shiplord Kirel  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 10:35:36am

At first I actually thought I was seeing some kind of SNL skit but the time was too late and KAMC is an ABC affiliate. It still took a couple of minutes for me to believe it was real.

12 reine.de.tout  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 10:37:28am

This is crazy stuff. Just crazy.

How much time are these people going to spend on this non-issue?

FULL DISCLOSURE:
What I have is a "certificate of live birth" issued to me by my state because the original was lost.

What does that make me? Am I a citizen or an alien? Do I have a right to vote?

This is just crazy.
re: #11 Shiplord Kirel

At first I actually thought I was seeing some kind of SNL skit but the time was too late and KAMC is an ABC affiliate. It still took a couple of minutes for me to believe it was real.

It does have the flavor of some sort of SNL skit, doesn't it? How do these folks NOT KNOW HOW CRAZY THEY SOUND?

13 FrogMarch  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 10:37:34am

Locally, our very own Peter Boyels is promoting the "Where's the Birth certificate" billboards.

oh joy.

14 Irish Rose  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 10:38:07am

Taking a break to get something productive done, before I run out of energy.

Later.

15 Shiplord Kirel  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 10:38:34am

Kreep and Keller (the Live Prayer guy) should be required to produce their own birth certificates to prove they are real people and not cartoon characters invented by some uber-cynical bumpersticker marketer.

16 Claire  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 10:39:48am

Just another angle for these pay-for-pray creeps to rake in the dough. They always have some controversy to leverage the $$ off of.

17 cliffster  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 10:39:56am

re: #9 MandyManners

Hey Mandy - hope the little guy is better soon.

18 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 10:41:21am

re: #5 MandyManners

This kind of arrogance knows no bounds.

Arrogance indeed.

19 Ojoe  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 10:41:34am

Earth certificate. Born on Earth. We're beyond this nation stuff anymore.

who cares

does this need some sort of tag?

Where's my tiny breakfast?

Guns. Religion. Cling wrap.

Klingons.

/sarc !

20 Charles Johnson  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 10:41:50am

re: #12 reine.de.tout

At this point, I'm absolutely convinced that the Birther insanity is being perpetuated by barely concealed racism. These are people who just can't stand the idea that a black man has been elected to the presidency, but they have a vague sense that it might not be OK to come right out and say that. So instead, the suppressed racism is oozing out in this kind of craziness.

21 Ojoe  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 10:42:39am

re: #20 Charles

No kidding.

22 Ojoe  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 10:43:46am

Where's that area 51 certificate? Wasn't that Iowahawk?

23 Bloodnok  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 10:44:02am

You can almost feel the breeze of the Independents rushing left towards the exit.

24 Occasional Reader  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 10:44:23am

Birtherism? Pah! Amateurs! Pikers! Me, I still maintain that Barack Obama does not even actually exist. Top that!

25 Shiplord Kirel  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 10:44:23am

These kooks should stick to saddled dinosaur replicas and models of Noah's Ark. At least those are kind of artistic.

26 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 10:45:37am

From TPM: ... Keller promises a "specially created bumper sticker?

*rolls eyes, licks lips*
Oh, that's rich, really rich!
Does Keller disclose the day on which he'll create the bumper stickers?

/no sacrilege intended, though someone might see it there

27 erraticsphinx  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 10:45:44am

re: #20 Charles

The whole birther ideology, especially the "born in Kenya!" version is definitely racist.

They are resisting, oh so deep inside, to avoid saying the n-word, so stuff like this just comes out instead.

This makes no sense to any rational person. The only way you could believe any of this is if you are blinded by hatred.

28 karmic_inquisitor  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 10:46:07am

re: #22 Ojoe

Where's that area 51 certificate? Wasn't that Iowahawk?

I thought that was Shiplord

29 Shiplord Kirel  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 10:46:14am

re: #22 Ojoe

Where's that area 51 certificate? Wasn't that Iowahawk?

That was my humble self. Here it is.

30 Throbert McGee  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 10:47:09am

re: #3 BigPapa

It's a Dearth of Nirth. Let me pour another cup of coffee.

Er, not a "Dearth" of Nirth, but... um... um...

...a Surfeit of Nirf?

31 Occasional Reader  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 10:47:12am

re: #29 Shiplord Kirel

That was my humble self. Here it is.

"* Includes cryo-time"

Brilliant!

32 Claire  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 10:47:33am

It'll be interesting to see what happens vis a vis "racism" when/if we ever elect a black republican president. That might be the only control experiment that could be done to discern real from imagined.

33 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 10:47:35am

Is there a rift in the Birther universe?

Anti-Obama 'Eligibility' Movement Members Breaking Ties With Laguna Niguel Birther Orly Taitz

34 Ojoe  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 10:47:44am

re: #29 Shiplord Kirel

Good enough for me, Area 51 is in the lower 48 states !

35 karmic_inquisitor  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 10:47:58am

I wish I had CGI skillzz.

"Nirthers On Ice!" would make for a good parody.

36 arethusa  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 10:48:57am

On a recent road trip through the Southwest I saw two gigantic "Where's the birth certificate?" billboards along a major interstate.

Back in 2005 or so when tons of yard signs saying "Impeach Bush" sprang up in my town, I kept wondering "Do these people really want Cheney to be President instead"? Now I wonder the same about Joe Biden.

It's simply a way of trying to avoid dealing with reality. If you don't like that Obama was elected, find a mature and reasonable way of expressing that. Engage in discussion about policies, not tantrums about fantasies.

37 Ojoe  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 10:49:10am

re: #29 Shiplord Kirel

Proving that you can be an alien AND an American.

What a great country this is!

Into the melting pot!

Yee Ha!

It's all good!

38 Occasional Reader  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 10:49:25am

re: #19 Ojoe

Cling wrap.

Greatest invention of all time (according to the 2,000 Year-Old Man).

39 Danny  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 10:49:47am

Lucrative market of suckers out there, apparently.

40 Occasional Reader  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 10:50:15am

re: #36 arethusa

"Do these people really want Cheney to be President instead"? Now I wonder the same about Joe Biden.

You can't deny the huge comedy possibilities of that scenario.

41 karmic_inquisitor  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 10:50:20am

re: #33 NJDhockeyfan

Is there a rift in the Birther universe?

Anti-Obama 'Eligibility' Movement Members Breaking Ties With Laguna Niguel Birther Orly Taitz

Boy. I wonder which side R S McCretin will go with. I guess it will have to be Orly Taitz because you can't judge someone you haven't met. That is a violation of some obscure sacred honor code from the south.

/

42 tradewind  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 10:50:50am

re: #12 reine.de.tout

It is soo crazy that if I were a conspiracy theorist type, I would be looking for the ghost of Lee Atwater, or at a more believable level, proof that Karl had gone over to the dark side and was working up a strategery to make the right look as mentally deficient as possible.
The RNC needs to get on this asap, with... I don't know what... some inside discipline? I don't know what can be done.
I will say again, though, that this is not something I hear promoted or seriously considered by my friends and relatives, and acquaintances... the majority of them are undoubtedly Republican-leaning, if not registered, voters, and I live in the heart of Dixie. So I'm wondering if this is not getting a little more press than its numbers deserve. I know were I a democrat staffer of Obama's I'd be pushing it as hard as I could. It's unbeatable publicity.

43 Ojoe  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 10:50:53am

re: #39 Danny

"There's a seeker born every minute."
(from "Everything you know is wrong.")

44 arethusa  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 10:51:13am

re: #40 Occasional Reader

You can't deny the huge comedy possibilities of that scenario.

I don't! It's how I get myself out of a bad mood.

45 Danny  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 10:51:27am

re: #43 Ojoe

LOL, nicely played.

46 erraticsphinx  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 10:51:56am

Are there any popular right wing blogs that have openly embraced Birtherism yet?
If they're so quick to jump to defend somebody like RSM...facts obviously don't get in the way.

47 Ojoe  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 10:53:44am

BBL

48 harry91  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 10:53:55am

I'm only upset that I didn't think of this scam. I've have my house paid off in full. in a month. I'd willing share the profits however, who's with me.

49 Killgore Trout  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 10:54:00am

Regarding all these "child indoctrination" videos floating around these days...
Flashback: Students Sang Bush's Praises Too (And For Katrina Response!)

Alas, such "propaganda" has not been limited to despots, dictators and the Obama White House. As a savvy source points out, back in 2006 children from Gulf Coast states serenaded First Lady Laura Bush with a song praising the President, Congress, and Federal Emergency Management Agency for their response to -- of all things -- Hurricane Katrina. The lyrics were as follow:

Our country's stood beside us People have sent us aid. Katrina could not stop us, our hopes will never fade. Congress, Bush and FEMA People across our land Together have come to rebuild us and we join them hand-in-hand!


The event took place at that year's White House Easter Egg Roll and included roughly 100 children from Louisiana, Mississippi and Alabama. President Bush, it seems, wasn't in attendance during the song itself. But he was there earlier, when the First Lady read the book, Will You Be My Friend: A Bunny and Bird Story by Nancy Tafuri, to the children.

"After the reading," the Wall Street Journal reported at the time, "Mr. Bush asked, 'Did you like this book? Does it tell you about what people can do to help other people, what bird did to help bunny? Be kind to him and give him shelter.'"

50 cliffster  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 10:54:28am

And as I'm reading this thread, I'm watching a commercial for the latest Michael Moore crapstream. It seems like level-headed rationalism is going the way of the drive-in movie.

51 mj  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 10:55:02am

Anyone know the origin of the term "moronic convergence" ?

My recollection, or at least the first time I remember seeing it, was in the American Spectator magazine which I was then had a subscription to in 1987 in a column by Robert Emmett Tyrrell, Jr. Tyrell was making fun of a group of new age crazies who believed in something called "Harmonic Convergence."

Anyone know of an earlier use?

52 JamesTKirk  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 10:55:17am

re: #32 Claire

It'll be interesting to see what happens vis a vis "racism" when/if we ever elect a black republican president. That might be the only control experiment that could be done to discern real from imagined.

We've already seen plenty of examples of how black Republicans are treated differently from black Democrats.

53 austin_blue  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 10:55:43am

re: #24 Occasional Reader

Birtherism? Pah! Amateurs! Pikers! Me, I still maintain that Barack Obama does not even actually exist. Top that!

He 's the Max Headroom of the Nation?

That'd be so kewl!

54 Shiplord Kirel  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 10:55:50am

re: #46 erraticsphinx

Are there any popular right wing blogs that have openly embraced Birtherism yet?
If they're so quick to jump to defend somebody like RSM...facts obviously don't get in the way.

Depends on how you define "popular." The well-endowed-but-not-with-brains Pamela Geller has been all over it and in fact originated the "nirth" spelling variation (though apparently not on purpose.)

55 cliffster  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 10:58:12am

re: #49 Killgore Trout

That's like comparing a forest fire with one of those fireplace gas flames.

56 Killgore Trout  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 10:58:18am

re: #49 Killgore Trout

Race baiting Michelle Malkin is calling it a rap song. Ooooh, scary and thuggish!

57 JamesTKirk  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 10:58:28am

re: #51 mj

Anyone know the origin of the term "moronic convergence" ?

My recollection, or at least the first time I remember seeing it, was in the American Spectator magazine which I was then had a subscription to in 1987 in a column by Robert Emmett Tyrrell, Jr. Tyrell was making fun of a group of new age crazies who believed in something called "Harmonic Convergence."

Anyone know of an earlier use?

I think it was created in response to the so-called "Harmonic Convergence."

The "Harmonica Virgins" in one Illuminati game were also a reference.

58 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 10:58:48am

re: #20 Charles

re: #27 erraticsphinx

Charles, I myself can't say "absolutely convinced", but the more I stare at your assertion, and erraticsphinx's add-on re "Kenya", the more Occam's Razor argues that you two are right.

My blockage seems to be that I simply don't want to know what goes on in minds as warped as those. Maybe it's avoidance.

/someone hit me with a cluebat

59 Killgore Trout  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 10:59:49am

re: #55 cliffster

Imagine if the rehearsals for the Bush song had been video taped? How would it be different than the Obama rehearsals? The kids sang a song about what a wonderful job Bush did with Katrina.

60 JamesTKirk  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:00:05am

re: #58 pre-Boomer Marine brat

/someone hit me with a cluebat

OK, but it's only set on "stun".

61 Shiplord Kirel  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:00:44am

re: #27 erraticsphinx

re: #20 Charles

They are grasping the straw rather than the nettle.

62 erraticsphinx  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:01:00am

re: #54 Shiplord Kirel

Yeah, she is more a "what the hell is on this webpage...why can't it load right with all these pictures of freedomy looking things" blogger than a right-wing blogger, IMO.

63 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:01:47am

re: #60 JamesTKirk

OK, but it's only set on "stun".

Thank you.

/and btw, do y'think Scotty could find a way to beam me outta this crap?

64 fish  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:02:26am

re: #20 Charles

Maybe I am naive or perhaps just not as cynical as I could be, but I don't believe this is racist. I think the nirthers are angry that the Liberal won and want to overturn that election. I see no difference between this insanity and the left wings chants of "selected not elected" and the last eight years of trying to overturn the 2000 election.
Insane-yes.
Waste of time and energy - Yes.
Putting all conservatives in a bad light - Yes.
Racist - I don't think so

Caveat - Yes of course some of these idiots are racists, unfortunately there are racists in almost every sector of society, people that think this group or that group are bad based on their genetic make up.

65 austin_blue  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:02:40am

re: #63 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Thank you.

/and btw, do y'think Scotty could find a way to beam me outta this crap?

Only at the last possible moment.

66 wrenchwench  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:02:48am

re: #63 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Thank you.

/and btw, do y'think Scotty could find a way to beam me outta this crap?

67 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:03:50am

re: #66 wrenchwench

LOL

68 JamesTKirk  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:03:57am

re: #63 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Thank you.

/and btw, do y'think Scotty could find a way to beam me outta this crap?

I dunno; whenever I'm in trouble, that's just when the transporters always seem to break down. I'd be worried about trying to beam you up, and ending up with your goateed evil twin instead...

69 What, me worry?  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:04:05am

Quite frankly, I'm disappointed that didn't get Oily Teats in the video. Betcha she's pissed too.

You suppose if I called the 800 number and told them they were bonkers, they'd make a note of it?

70 Occasional Reader  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:04:16am

re: #53 austin_blue

He 's the Max Headroom of the Nation?

That'd be so kewl!

Try this on for size, as far as evidence:

I live in Washington, DC.

This "Barack Obama" person allegedly also lives in Washington, DC.

And yet I have never met him.

We're through the looking glass, people.

71 erraticsphinx  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:04:56am

re: #69 marjoriemoon


You can call them whatever they want. Just...give em 30 bucks.

72 austin_blue  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:05:27am

re: #70 Occasional Reader

Try this on for size, as far as evidence:

I live in Washington, DC.

This "Barack Obama" person allegedly also lives in Washington, DC.

And yet I have never met him.

We're through the looking glass, people.

That is just...eerie!, OR.

73 tradewind  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:05:47am

re: #59 Killgore Trout

Oh, puh-leeze. There's no comparison, and you know it.
It's almost as if over-enthusiastic NEA members are using school children as the
medium for their personal political messages in the form of performance art.
Their emphasis is on the man himself, not the presidency. That's what is so inappropriate.

74 reine.de.tout  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:06:08am

re: #49 Killgore Trout

Regarding all these "child indoctrination" videos floating around these days...
Flashback: Students Sang Bush's Praises Too (And For Katrina Response!)

Killgore - I know you saw it the other day - where I posted that this stuff goes back to the beginning of time, I'm sure.

When I was in the 5th grade, which was in the mid-sixties, the nuns had us singing the praises of then President John Kennedy instead of George Washington.

My dad was livid when he found out about it, and I think rightly so.

But the bottom line take here for me, based on how my parents handled these things, is that kids will be exposed to things parents don't agree with, and that in itself is not a bad thing, as those things need to be the point for initiating a conversation with their kids, not a point for beginning screeching hysteria about every little thing they don't like.

75 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:06:09am

re: #68 JamesTKirk

I dunno; whenever I'm in trouble, that's just when the transporters always seem to break down. I'd be worried about trying to beam you up, and ending up with your goateed evil twin instead...

Yeah, I know about him.
If it's any consolation, we've read "pre-Boomer Marine brute" out of the family

76 Racer X  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:06:23am

I have worked with the public. In my experience some of the biggest racists (against blacks) have been Asians.

77 SixDegrees  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:06:24am

re: #32 Claire

It'll be interesting to see what happens vis a vis "racism" when/if we ever elect a black republican president. That might be the only control experiment that could be done to discern real from imagined.

We've already seen it. Condi Rice and Colin Powell were widely vilified as "oreos" by the Left, in so many words. I've heard it applied to Thomas Sowell as well.

78 What, me worry?  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:06:58am

re: #71 erraticsphinx

You can call them whatever they want. Just...give em 30 bucks.

Well that ain't gonna happen, but it's still tempting nevertheless!

79 JamesTKirk  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:07:07am

re: #64 fish

There's no way we'll ever know, but one wonders if McCain would have been faced by Nirthers, backed by the NYT, for having been born in the Panama Canal Zone if he had won. Remember, the "not natural born" charge was leveled against him first.

(That doesn't excuse the loonies, merely states that loonies are on both sides and don't necessarily need racism to fuel their lunacy.)

80 cliffster  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:07:33am

re: #59 Killgore Trout

Imagine if the rehearsals for the Bush song had been video taped? How would it be different than the Obama rehearsals? The kids sang a song about what a wonderful job Bush did with Katrina.

Imagine if people quit trying to make all things Obama related ok by saying, "oh yeah, what about Bush?" Even still, not the same thing.

81 Charles Johnson  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:07:48am

re: #49 Killgore Trout

Regarding all these "child indoctrination" videos floating around these days...
Flashback: Students Sang Bush's Praises Too (And For Katrina Response!)

Imagine my surprise.

82 drogheda  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:07:56am

re: #33 NJDhockeyfan

Is there a rift in the Birther universe?

Anti-Obama 'Eligibility' Movement Members Breaking Ties With Laguna Niguel Birther Orly Taitz

If the two people mentioned in the article are to be believed (work with me here, grain of salt and all that, these are nirthers after all) then Orly Taitz is suborning perjury. Of course it could be that they simply decided to not put their bad craziness on record in a court of law and are simply deflecting blame onto Orly. But seeing that Orly is herself a nirther, and apparently a highly persistent one at that, then asking other nirthers to stretch the truth a little bit flat out lie might just be something she'd do.

83 JamesTKirk  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:09:10am

re: #77 SixDegrees

We've already seen it. Condi Rice and Colin Powell were widely vilified as "oreos" by the Left, in so many words. I've heard it applied to Thomas Sowell as well.

And Michael Steele (I live in Maryland; the way he was treated when he ran for Congress here was disgusting) and others.

84 Digital Display  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:09:21am

re: #81 Charles

Imagine my surprise.

I wonder what next week's faux outrage will be?

85 Throbert McGee  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:10:13am

re: #20 Charles

At this point, I'm absolutely convinced that the Birther insanity is being perpetuated by barely concealed racism.

Several months ago, this would've seemed like a hasty conclusion, in that the Birther shit could've been plausibly explained as coming from lingering anger over the years of BDS followed by the creepy misogyny that was directed towards Sarah Palin (for example).

But you're right that at this point, it's difficult to see it as being about anything other than race-based grievance-mongering.

One thing that I'm not sure you're 100% correct about, however -- is the driving force really anti-black racism, or is this more about white people getting into a victimhood frenzy over so-called "reverse racism," because they perceive Obama as an unqualified beneficiary of Affirmative Action?

86 MandyManners  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:10:17am

re: #77 SixDegrees

We've already seen it. Condi Rice and Colin Powell were widely vilified as "oreos" by the Left, in so many words. I've heard it applied to Thomas Sowell as well.

And, Uncle Toms. Didn't some lefty blog photoshop Rice as Aunt Jemima?

87 JamesTKirk  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:10:30am

re: #75 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Yeah, I know about him.
If it's any consolation, we've read "pre-Boomer Marine brute" out of the family

And here I was expecting you to tell me that you were the evil twin and I be getting the wussy "good" one...

88 FrogMarch  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:10:34am

re: #73 tradewind

Oh, puh-leeze. There's no comparison, and you know it.
It's almost as if over-enthusiastic NEA members are using school children as the
medium for their personal political messages in the form of performance art.
Their emphasis is on the man himself, not the presidency. That's what is so inappropriate.

Indeed.
Huffpo is really stretching it. The left seem desperate to find anything – because they understand what some on their side are doing is creepy. These are very different scenarios. The Katrina kids were singing about surviving a horrible natural event; An event that was, in fact, politicized by the left for years. “Bush hates black people” "Bush and Cheney caused the hurricane" "Bush and Cheney screwed up , but anyone with a (D) behind their name in a position of power in LA got a free pass..."

The songs coming out now are not in any response to any horrible event – they are songs written by teacher(s) who are known backers and financial supporters of Barack Obama.

89 tradewind  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:11:04am

re: #79 JamesTKirk

I doubt it. The suspicion surrounding Obama's birthplace comes largely, if inappropriately, from the fact that his father was a Kenyan here on a student visa, and that his mother was so very young that they promote the story that she was traveling around with him. McCain's parents were uncontestedly American born.

90 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:11:59am

re: #84 HoosierHoops

I wonder what next week's faux outrage will be?

You're wondering?
... What faux?

91 MandyManners  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:12:13am

re: #88 FrogMarch

Indeed.
Huffpo is really stretching it. The left seem desperate to find anything – because they understand what some on their side are doing is creepy. These are very different scenarios. The Katrina kids were singing about surviving a horrible natural event; An event that was, in fact, politicized by the left for years. “Bush hates black people” "Bush and Cheney caused the hurricane" "Bush and Cheney screwed up , but anyone with a (D) behind their name in a position of power in LA got a free pass..."

The songs coming out now are not in any response to any horrible event – they are songs written by teacher(s) who are known backers and financial supporters of Barack Obama.

Remember the teacher in North Carolina who berated a little girl whose father was in the military and supported McCain?

92 Occasional Reader  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:12:26am

re: #73 tradewind

Oh, puh-leeze. There's no comparison, and you know it.
It's almost as if over-enthusiastic NEA members are using school children as the
medium for their personal political messages in the form of performance art.
Their emphasis is on the man himself, not the presidency. That's what is so inappropriate.

While in general I do think that are unsettling "personality cult" aspects surrounding Obama that were in no way matched during the Bush Administration, in this particular example, I'd have to point out that while the "praise" song does seem more innocuous in the Bush example, it's also the case that that song was actually sung at the White House, while the Obama example is just some school somewhere, not something sanctioned by the Administration.

93 Killgore Trout  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:13:22am

re: #74 reine.de.tout

But the bottom line take here for me, based on how my parents handled these things, is that kids will be exposed to things parents don't agree with, and that in itself is not a bad thing, as those things need to be the point for initiating a conversation with their kids, not a point for beginning screeching hysteria about every little thing they don't like.


Agreed.

94 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:13:39am

re: #85 Throbert McGee

You have a point. It could easily be a mixed bag of motives.

/though racism nonetheless

95 FrogMarch  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:13:39am

re: #91 MandyManners

Remember the teacher in North Carolina who berated a little girl whose father was in the military and supported McCain?

It's uncool to do this to children.

96 wrenchwench  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:13:47am

re: #76 Racer X

I have worked with the public. In my experience some of the biggest racists (against blacks) have been Asians.

Racists come in all colors, and people are bigoted against (or is that toward?) others of any color, ethnicity, religion, etc. The term "reverse racism" serves no purpose.

97 Digital Display  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:13:54am

re: #90 pre-Boomer Marine brat

You're wondering?
... What faux?

I was thinking the dems will take the seniors and turn them into Soylent green..
But that's already taken..

98 SixDegrees  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:14:01am

re: #64 fish

Maybe I am naive or perhaps just not as cynical as I could be, but I don't believe this is racist. I think the nirthers are angry that the Liberal won and want to overturn that election. I see no difference between this insanity and the left wings chants of "selected not elected" and the last eight years of trying to overturn the 2000 election.
Insane-yes.
Waste of time and energy - Yes.
Putting all conservatives in a bad light - Yes.
Racist - I don't think so

Caveat - Yes of course some of these idiots are racists, unfortunately there are racists in almost every sector of society, people that think this group or that group are bad based on their genetic make up.

I'm sure you're correct that such feelings aren't universal. But for a whole lot of people, the whole nirth certificate thing is precisely equivalent to "He's not one of use," and just a short hop from there to even less pleasant equivalencies.

Groups like Stormfront are all over this and are promoting it like crazy - not because there's any hope at all of having 0bama removed from office, but because it fits so snugly with their overall agenda, and because it only takes the smallest nudge to shove someone from nirtherism to overt racism if they're not already there.

99 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:14:16am

re: #87 JamesTKirk

And here I was expecting you to tell me that you were the evil twin and I be getting the wussy "good" one...

MOI ?!

100 tradewind  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:14:23am

re: #91 MandyManners

Teachers' political preferences, whether they are conservative or ' progressive' in tone, have no place in the classroom. Especially in elementary and junior high/high school classes, their political affiliation should not be a matter of record or even readily discernible.

101 JamesTKirk  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:14:50am

re: #89 tradewind

McCain's parents were uncontestedly American born.

His parents, yes. But they weren't running. As for McCain's status, it wasn't "uncontested" if the New York Times raised the subject (and was immediately echoed by HuffPo, Salon, etc.)

102 Killgore Trout  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:15:10am

re: #81 Charles

I don't remember the left freaking out about it. There might have been a few mumbles but I don't recall national outrage.

103 MandyManners  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:15:18am

re: #91 MandyManners

Remember the teacher in North Carolina who berated a little girl whose father was in the military and supported McCain?

Here it is.

Youtube Video
104 Bloodnok  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:16:53am

BBL

105 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:17:22am

re: #97 HoosierHoops

I was thinking the dems will take the seniors and turn them into Soylent green..
But that's already taken..

Is that why I began turning green a few weeks ago?

106 cliffster  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:18:14am

re: #74 reine.de.tout

Of course you can't control everything your kids are exposed to, and you need to be prepared to talk rationally with them. That doesn't mean that everything that teachers do in school is ok, nor that you shouldn't insist that this sort of thing not be done in the classroom. And it sure as heck doesn't make the Obama classroom chant any less creepy.

107 JamesTKirk  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:18:52am

re: #96 wrenchwench

re: #76 Racer X
I have worked with the public. In my experience some of the biggest racists (against blacks) have been Asians.

Racists come in all colors, and people are bigoted against (or is that toward?) others of any color, ethnicity, religion, etc. The term "reverse racism" serves no purpose.

As long as we're providing "in my experience" personal anecdotes (which, remember, do not add up to representative data, but can still be of interest), some time ago (before I became involved with the woman who became my wife, obvious) I was involved with a black woman for several years. None of my white friends/co-workers/relatives batted an eye... it was only black people I knew (and even ones I didn't know) who felt the need to ask questions, make comments, or in other ways act like it was unusual and/or wrong and/or whatever.

108 Mich-again  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:19:35am
For a mere $30.00 US, you too can advertise to the world that you’re an idiot

Thats a bargain! Some people gladly pay a whole lot more than that to let the world how ignorant they are. For example, Detroit Lions season ticket holders.

109 Occasional Reader  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:19:49am

re: #98 SixDegrees

I'm sure you're correct that such feelings aren't universal. But for a whole lot of people, the whole nirth certificate thing is precisely equivalent to "He's not one of use," and just a short hop from there to even less pleasant equivalencies.

Groups like Stormfront are all over this and are promoting it like crazy - not because there's any hope at all of having 0bama removed from office, but because it fits so snugly with their overall agenda, and because it only takes the smallest nudge to shove someone from nirtherism to overt racism if they're not already there.

Conclusion; some birthers are racists, some aren't... life is complex!

110 tradewind  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:20:02am

re: #92 Occasional Reader

You mention ' the ' Obama example. There are lots more.
Besides, what's one children's concert at the WH compared to an entire arts council being gathered together via conference call to decide how best to churn out propaganda? The WH has tacitly acknowledged that this happened, btw, by explaining that ' it won't happen again '.
///

111 lurking faith  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:20:21am

re: #97 HoosierHoops

I was thinking the dems will take the seniors and turn them into Soylent green..
But that's already taken..

Cash for Codgers?

112 tradewind  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:20:53am

PIMF, childrens' , not children's.

113 Charles Johnson  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:21:49am

re: #73 tradewind

Oh, puh-leeze. There's no comparison, and you know it.
It's almost as if over-enthusiastic NEA members are using school children as the
medium for their personal political messages in the form of performance art.
Their emphasis is on the man himself, not the presidency. That's what is so inappropriate.

I see a very obvious comparison. In fact, if I thought there was something horribly inappropriate about schoolchildren singing songs praising the President, I might think the Bush song about Katrina was even worse -- because it happened at the White House with the explicit approval of President Bush himself.

But the fact is, I don't see anything wrong at all with either of these cases.

What's wrong is the increasingly hysterical tendency of right wingers to freak out over completely insignificant issues.

114 tradewind  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:21:55am

re: #111 lurking faith

It's Kool-Aid for Kodgers. One dose 'll do ya.
///

115 Mich-again  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:22:19am

re: #98 SixDegrees

But for a whole lot of people, the whole nirth certificate thing is precisely equivalent to "He's not one of use," and just a short hop from there to even less pleasant equivalencies.

Yep. To a lot of them, its code for a certain word.

116 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:22:36am

re: #110 tradewind

You mention ' the ' Obama example. There are lots more.
Besides, what's one children's concert at the WH compared to an entire arts council being gathered together via conference call to decide how best to churn out propaganda? The WH has tacitly acknowledged that this happened, btw, by explaining that ' it won't happen again '.
///

Tacit?

The guy that headed that effort at the NEA quit, that wasn't very tacit. Down right admission that something was wrong.

117 reine.de.tout  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:22:39am

re: #106 cliffster

. . . That doesn't mean that everything that teachers do in school is ok, nor that you shouldn't insist that this sort of thing not be done in the classroom. And it sure as heck doesn't make the Obama classroom chant any less creepy.

I never claimed otherwise.

We cannot, and should not expect, to be able to shield children from everything. That's ridiculous.

These incidents are the times when parents should be leading their children in how to act and react. And hysterical shrieking is not the productive way to lead.

118 JamesTKirk  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:22:39am

re: #114 tradewind

It's Kool-Aid for Kodgers. One dose 'll do ya.
///

Except for them it'll be Metamucil, not Kool-Aid.

119 Sheila Broflovski  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:22:42am

re: #86 MandyManners

And, Uncle Toms. Didn't some lefty blog photoshop Rice as Aunt Jemima?

Ted Rall and Garry Trudeau were utterly disgusting in their racist portrayals of Condi.

120 Occasional Reader  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:22:49am

re: #102 Killgore Trout

I don't remember the left freaking out about it. There might have been a few mumbles but I don't recall national outrage.

Of course, that would have seemed small potatoes at the time compared to their overarching theme of "Bush intentionally murdered black people by blowing up the levees!", etc.

121 debutaunt  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:23:07am

re: #84 HoosierHoops

I wonder what next week's faux outrage will be?

My ineffectual fist is ready to clench at the slightest slight.

122 karmic_inquisitor  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:23:30am

OT: The Onion

Obama Trying Out Social Policies In 'Second Life'

WASHINGTON—According to White House sources, an increasingly cautious President Obama has begun testing out parts of his executive agenda on the 15 million citizens of the online world known as Second Life. The commander in chief's avatar—an attractive African-American man with two more years of senatorial experience than the president—has already dedicated 3.5 billion Linden dollars to developing sustainable green energy in the virtual community. "After what happened when he expanded the Peace Corps, we're anticipating a large portion of the program will be cut," one unnamed administration official said. "I saw the screencaps myself. There were thousands of arrogant, college-age avatars just camping out, being of no help to anyone. It was awful." After moderators confirmed Monday that the virtual world is in no danger of terrorist attack because there is no death in Second Life, former vice president Dick Cheney reportedly canceled his recently opened account.

123 Occasional Reader  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:23:43am

re: #110 tradewind

You mention ' the ' Obama example. There are lots more.
Besides, what's one children's concert at the WH compared to an entire arts council being gathered together via conference call to decide how best to churn out propaganda? The WH has tacitly acknowledged that this happened, btw, by explaining that ' it won't happen again '.
///

And on THAT example, I agree with you; the NEA thing was utterly inappropriate. But was comment was specifically limited to the two songs.

124 SixDegrees  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:23:48am

re: #109 Occasional Reader

Conclusion; some birthers are racists, some aren't... life is complex!

I don't think Charles said anything different. There's a strong undercurrent of racism now among the nirthers, as various fringe groups are increasingly roped together by Ron Paul and the Birchers (an overtly racist group) and their members find themselves united by craziness.

125 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:23:54am

Take it easy on us codgers!
You guys aren't getting any younger.

126 Occasional Reader  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:24:33am

re: #122 karmic_inquisitor

You know, weirdly enough... that might not be a bad idea.

127 MandyManners  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:24:43am

re: #110 tradewind

You mention ' the ' Obama example. There are lots more.
Besides, what's one children's concert at the WH compared to an entire arts council being gathered together via conference call to decide how best to churn out propaganda? The WH has tacitly acknowledged that this happened, btw, by explaining that ' it won't happen again '.
///

WTF?

128 cliffster  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:24:52am

re: #117 reine.de.tout

I never claimed otherwise.

We cannot, and should not expect, to be able to shield children from everything. That's ridiculous.

These incidents are the times when parents should be leading their children in how to act and react. And hysterical shrieking is not the productive way to lead.

But civil disagreement and protest are. And it is a huge mistake to generalize everyone who protests as hysterically shrieking.

129 Mich-again  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:24:58am

Neither Religion nor teachers' political opinions belong in the classroom.

130 MandyManners  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:25:25am

re: #119 Alouette

Ted Rall and Garry Trudeau were utterly disgusting in their racist portrayals of Condi.

The Doonesbury guy?

131 Killgore Trout  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:25:35am

re: #120 Occasional Reader

Of course, that would have seemed small potatoes at the time compared to their overarching theme of "Bush intentionally murdered black people by blowing up the levees!", etc.


Agreed. The Koskidz were thrilled as people were dying because they felt it would advance their political agenda. Repulsive. I think we even had a few threads about it at the time.

132 reine.de.tout  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:26:01am

re: #128 cliffster

But civil disagreement and protest are. And it is a huge mistake to generalize everyone who protests as hysterically shrieking.

I'm not sure I made that generalization.

133 tradewind  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:26:04am

re: #113 Charles
I don't see anyone actually 'freaking out'... at least not in comparison to the hysteria that the Bush-Cheney WH provoked among the left. (' we're moving to France'). It's more of an irritant, a contradiction to that tone that was supposed to have been set when this Change swept in on winged feet.
The cognitive dissonance between the self-deprecating, no-drama Obama on one hand and the emphasis on the importance of his personhood is there.

134 JamesTKirk  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:26:15am

re: #125 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Isn't there a gravestone somewhere that says something like "Where you are I once was. Where I am you will be."

135 tradewind  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:26:37am

re: #116 Walter L. Newton

I was trying to be non-hysterical.
///

136 MandyManners  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:26:42am

re: #120 Occasional Reader

Of course, that would have seemed small potatoes at the time compared to their overarching theme of "Bush intentionally murdered black people by blowing up the levees!", etc.

McKinney?

137 karmic_inquisitor  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:26:51am

re: #113 Charles

What's wrong is the increasingly hysterical tendency of right wingers to freak out over completely insignificant issues.

I don't know about that. I think the symbolism at Rockefeller Center is a menace to society and threatens my freedom. And marriage.

/

138 Digital Display  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:27:17am

re: #125 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Take it easy on us codgers!
You guys aren't getting any younger.

I had to delete a comment just for you...LOL

139 Killgore Trout  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:27:19am

re: #133 tradewind

I don't see anyone actually 'freaking out'...


From Michelle Malkin to Michael Steele and every glog and pundit in between.

140 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:27:24am

re: #135 tradewind

I was trying to be non-hysterical.
///

You gave them too much credit.
/

141 JamesTKirk  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:27:51am

re: #136 MandyManners

McKinney?

Don't ever act like you don't recognize her. She'll slug you.

142 Throbert McGee  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:28:28am

Another thought: One can accuse the Nirthers of racism and still recognize that most of them don't hate black people. Racism (and sexism, and homophobia, and religious bigotry, etc.) can sometimes take the more subtle form of holding unjust double standards, or straining at black gnats while being willing to swallow a white camel.

143 cliffster  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:28:49am

re: #132 reine.de.tout

I'm not sure I made that generalization.

Updinged, but I will say that if I say "I don't think that's right", and you respond with "maybe not, but shrieking hysterically doesn't help", it certainly implies that generalization.

144 albusteve  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:28:56am

re: #108 Mich-again

Thats a bargain! Some people gladly pay a whole lot more than that to let the world how ignorant they are. For example, Detroit Lions season ticket holders.

50 lashes

145 MandyManners  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:29:16am

re: #141 JamesTKirk

Don't ever act like you don't recognize her. She'll slug you.

Or, worse--give me a gift certificate to the Fork-in-Toaster Salon.

146 Occasional Reader  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:29:51am

re: #130 MandyManners

The Doonesbury guy?

I stopped reading Doonesbury after his strip VERY shortly after 9/11 in which the message was "peace out!". You know, our grief is not a cry for war, blahblahblah.

147 JamesTKirk  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:30:00am

re: #142 Throbert McGee

while being willing to swallow a white camel.

Thanks for that mental image.

148 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:30:20am

re: #138 HoosierHoops

I had to delete a comment just for you...LOL

*grin*
I joke about my age all the time out in the real world.

149 JamesTKirk  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:30:43am

re: #146 Occasional Reader

I stopped reading Doonesbury after his strip VERY shortly after 9/11 in which the message was "peace out!". You know, our grief is not a cry for war, blahblahblah.

I quit reading him before that, but he was never the same after his hiatus in the 80s.

150 tradewind  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:31:22am

re: #127 MandyManners

Why The Face? What are the Facts?
It's old news... Obama's peeps in the Arts decided they could use their stable of like-minded artists to churn out some good ole hope ' n change. All artistically done, though, really subtle.
It was leaked, and the instigator had to quit, and the WH had to say ' we won't let that happen again'.

151 Girth  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:31:32am

re: #133 tradewind

I don't see anyone actually 'freaking out'... at least not in comparison to the hysteria that the Bush-Cheney WH provoked among the left. (' we're moving to France').

I tend to see talk of secession as a little more extreme than talk of moving, but that's just me.

152 JamesTKirk  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:31:40am

I just popped in a DVD described as "a furry version of 'The Odd Couple'."

I'm very afraid.

153 cliffster  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:31:49am

re: #142 Throbert McGee

Another thought: One can accuse the Nirthers of racism and still recognize that most of them don't hate black people. Racism (and sexism, and homophobia, and religious bigotry, etc.) can sometimes take the more subtle form of holding unjust double standards, or straining at black gnats while being willing to swallow a white camel.

I wonder what percentage of people that you would consider racist, actually think they are racist?

154 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:32:49am

re: #127 MandyManners

WTF?

[Link: www.foxnews.com...]

155 Mich-again  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:32:52am

re: #119 Alouette

Ted Rall and Garry Trudeau were utterly disgusting in their racist portrayals of Condi.

Beware to any African Americans who leave the Liberal plantation. They will be scorned by the Left for being Uncle Toms. I find that utterly disgusting. Sad how people of all other races can freely choose their own political affiliation, but whenever an African American doesn't show unity with the Left they are fair game to be attacked and ridiculed. Kind of the same thing happens to homosexuals.

156 MandyManners  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:33:18am

re: #146 Occasional Reader

I stopped reading Doonesbury after his strip VERY shortly after 9/11 in which the message was "peace out!". You know, our grief is not a cry for war, blahblahblah.

I last read him regularly in the 90s.

I miss Bloom County.

157 tradewind  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:33:24am

re: #139 Killgore Trout

Silly. That's their job.
Maureen Dowd has a twice-weekly freak-out in the nation's newspaper of record, and nobody blinks. It's her job.

158 Occasional Reader  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:33:32am

re: #152 JamesTKirk

I just popped in a DVD described as "a furry version of 'The Odd Couple'."

I'm very afraid.

You clearly have way too much free time on your hands.

159 What, me worry?  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:33:45am

re: #130 MandyManners

The Doonesbury guy?

Trudeau was also taken to task by the ADL for an anti-Semitic cartoon. IIRC, something about Jesus only showed his anger when dealing with the "the money lenders" and that was ok.

160 MandyManners  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:34:27am

re: #150 tradewind

Why The Face? What are the Facts?
It's old news... Obama's peeps in the Arts decided they could use their stable of like-minded artists to churn out some good ole hope ' n change. All artistically done, though, really subtle.
It was leaked, and the instigator had to quit, and the WH had to say ' we won't let that happen again'.

Using our tax dollars?

161 debutaunt  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:34:31am

re: #156 MandyManners

I last read him regularly in the 90s.

I miss Bloom County.

Bloom County was far funnier than his stuff.

162 Killgore Trout  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:34:39am

re: #153 cliffster

I wonder what percentage of people that you would consider racist, actually think they are racist?

Proabably a very small percentage but that might change here soon. Guys like Beck, Drudge, Rush, RS McCain and Buchanan are all working to advance the fear that "White culture" is under attack. Racism (or some version of it) may become somewhat mainstreamed in certain circles.

163 JamesTKirk  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:34:42am

re: #151 Girth

I tend to see talk of secession as a little more extreme than talk of moving, but that's just me.

You mean like all the people in blue states who wanted to leave "Jesusland" in 2004?

164 Occasional Reader  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:35:31am

re: #159 marjoriemoon

Trudeau was also taken to task by the ADL for an anti-Semitic cartoon. IIRC, something about Jesus only showed his anger when dealing with the "the money lenders" and that was ok.

Really? I don't recall that. While I fault Trudeau for certain things, I never got any hint of an impression of anti-Semitism from his work.

165 Claire  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:35:53am

re: #48 harry91

I'm only upset that I didn't think of this scam. I've have my house paid off in full. in a month. I'd willing share the profits however, who's with me.

I'm with ya. Easy money!

166 Achilles Tang  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:36:10am

$100 per airing on TV? Holy cow, I can't run a newspaper classified for a week for that.

No wonder we see so much crap on the airways, they have nothing else to air.

167 MandyManners  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:36:26am

re: #154 Walter L. Newton

[Link: www.foxnews.com...]

Ah, gee. Another "teaching moment"? Isn't that similar to what BHO said about the Gates/cop incident?

168 Occasional Reader  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:36:29am

re: #153 cliffster

I wonder what percentage of people that you would consider racist, actually think they are racist?

I'd venture to guess that very, very few people actually think to themselves, "I'm a racist!". Even Klansmen. They think they're brave Truthspeakers, or whatever.

169 Charles Johnson  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:36:54am

The principal of the school where those children sang the song about Obama has been receiving death threats, by the way.

Good work, Michelle Malkin.

170 Mich-again  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:36:58am

re: #153 cliffster

I wonder what percentage of people that you would consider racist, actually think they are racist?

A quick litmus test is to ask them what they would think of their child marrying a person of a different race.

171 What, me worry?  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:37:07am

re: #164 Occasional Reader

Really? I don't recall that. While I fault Trudeau for certain things, I never got any hint of an impression of anti-Semitism from his work.

Here.

172 tradewind  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:37:25am

re: #160 MandyManners

No, I think they held car washes in Dupont Circle...
///

173 debutaunt  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:37:31am

re: #167 MandyManners

Insulting the cop was quite a stupid moment.

174 albusteve  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:37:43am

re: #167 MandyManners

Ah, gee. Another "teaching moment"? Isn't that similar to what BHO said about the Gates/cop incident?

ironically BO is the student in that case...

175 MandyManners  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:37:44am

re: #159 marjoriemoon

Trudeau was also taken to task by the ADL for an anti-Semitic cartoon. IIRC, something about Jesus only showed his anger when dealing with the "the money lenders" and that was ok.

An anti-Semite on the left? Whoda' thunk it?

176 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:37:52am

re: #160 MandyManners

Using our tax dollars?

[Link: www.foxnews.com...]

177 JamesTKirk  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:38:45am

re: #158 Occasional Reader

You clearly have way too much free time on your hands.

[Link: www.traileraddict.com...]

178 2senseplain  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:40:09am

OT: Could somebody please help me. I wanted to submit a link(first time) but got hung up on the demand to select a subject catagory from the menu. I don't see the menu.

179 MandyManners  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:41:01am

re: #161 debutaunt

Bloom County was far funnier than his stuff.

Yep.

Image: outland_dog2.jpg

180 Occasional Reader  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:41:01am

re: #171 marjoriemoon

Here.

Hmm.

On this one, I think the ADL jumped the gun. I'd read the "money-lenders" line as a reference to the current financial world, not some sort of crypto-anti-Semitism.

181 Throbert McGee  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:41:37am

re: #147 JamesTKirk

Thanks for that mental image.

Huh?

Oh. I see what you mean.

182 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:42:02am

re: #178 2senseplain

OT: Could somebody please help me. I wanted to submit a link(first time) but got hung up on the demand to select a subject catagory from the menu. I don't see the menu.

IIRC, it's below and to the left of the URL and title boxes.
Click to expand.

183 MandyManners  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:42:10am

re: #172 tradewind

No, I think they held car washes in Dupont Circle...
///

No bake sale?

184 Killgore Trout  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:42:37am

re: #178 2senseplain

There's a drop down menu above the submission box on the left side to choose a category.

185 Chekote  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:42:50am

re: #20 Charles

I agree with you. Initially, I thought it was a run of the mill conspirancy but the refusal of people to accept the Birth Certificate released by Hawaii, the newspaper announcements, the statement by officials confirming the place of birth leads me to think that something else is motivating this lie. Also, I don't recall anyone questioning the birth place of Clinton, Bush or any other modern day POTUS candidate. Why question Obama? Because his father was an African? Most likely that is the reason.

186 JamesTKirk  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:43:01am

re: #183 MandyManners

No bake sale?

I'm seen a number of people in Dupont Circle who were baked.

187 2senseplain  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:43:09am

re: #182 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Will try it Boomer. Thank you.

188 Sheila Broflovski  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:43:23am

re: #130 MandyManners

The Doonesbury guy?

Yeah, there was a Doonesbury strip panel of President Bush calling Condi Rice "Brown Sugar"

189 Dreader1962  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:43:29am

re: #161 debutaunt

Bloom County was far funnier than his stuff.

'Billy and the Boingers' - I still have the record insert in that collection of Bloom County. Real vinyl and everything, even though I don't have anything to play it on.

190 Chekote  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:43:43am

re: #9 MandyManners

Why don't they focus on his policies? Goodness knows there's plenty to worry about there instead of pissing away their energy on this.

I share your frustration. So much time and effort into this dumb nirther and Obama is a Muslim nonsense.

191 Flyers1974  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:44:38am

re: #85 Throbert McGee

Several months ago, this would've seemed like a hasty conclusion, in that the Birther shit could've been plausibly explained as coming from lingering anger over the years of BDS followed by the creepy misogyny that was directed towards Sarah Palin (for example).

Now that Sarah Palin isn't in the news everyday, I'm curious how much attention the issues of misogny and sexism will get in conservative circles. My guess is a huge amount. I'm sure we'll be hearing about these things very soon.

192 tradewind  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:44:39am

re: #183 MandyManners
Probably some of those artistic brownies with the little seeds in 'em, for inspiration.
:)

193 fizzlogic  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:44:42am

God's enemy?...that's old hat. Ann Coulter was calling the Dems godless well before Obama became President. You have to understand, conservatives and the GOP have that God thing cornered. The tragic part (snicker) is they've painted themselves into it.

194 MandyManners  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:44:44am

re: #188 Alouette

Yeah, there was a Doonesbury strip panel of President Bush calling Condi Rice "Brown Sugar"

Asshole. She shoulda' stomped his insteps with her stilleto boots.

195 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:45:19am

re: #184 Killgore Trout

There's a drop down menu above the submission box on the left side to choose a category.

(OMG, we're supposed to go into "submission" when we post a spinoff?!
... :( ... just wait 'til the stalkers get wind of that!)

196 tradewind  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:45:37am

re: #185 Chekote

Because his father was not a citizen, and was back and forth on a student visa. That probably has more to do with it, IMO.

197 Occasional Reader  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:45:47am

re: #194 MandyManners

Asshole. She shoulda' stomped his insteps with her stilleto boots.

Why reward him like that?

/

198 Guanxi88  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:45:55am

re: #194 MandyManners

Asshole. She shoulda' stomped his insteps with her stilleto boots.

If they sold tickets, it might have put a dent in the national debt.

199 What, me worry?  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:46:57am

re: #175 MandyManners

An anti-Semite on the left? Whoda' thunk it?

I guess we all have our losers. And I'm sure you and I have our own ideas on who is worse :)

I believe Trudeau used to draw Condi as a parrot on Bush's shoulder. Honestly I didn't think this was so bigoted. He drew her with a big mouth and teeth. Well, she did have big front teeth, but the mouth I always thought was more to depict a parrot's beak, not that she had big lips.

The other Aunt Jemima one was bad. I can't seem to find it now.

200 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:47:03am

re: #189 Dreader1962

'Billy and the Boingers' - I still have the record insert in that collection of Bloom County. Real vinyl and everything, even though I don't have anything to play it on.

I've got a Dual 1229 turntable I've been trying to find a home for. Send your shipping address.

:D

201 Digital Display  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:47:37am

re: #169 Charles

The principal of the school where those children sang the song about Obama has been receiving death threats, by the way.

Good work, Michelle Malkin.


Look I got Jesus on hold here.. He's got lots of prayer requests to bury the principal ..I have to get back to him..
So how do we do the dirty deed Christians?
1) a slow death? Cancer or something
2) A flesh eating microbe?
3) a car accident?
4) Struck with lighting? Which makes for a really cool ironic death.
Ok Ok..I have really got to take this call..Any idea's?

202 What, me worry?  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:47:56am

re: #180 Occasional Reader

Hmm.

On this one, I think the ADL jumped the gun. I'd read the "money-lenders" line as a reference to the current financial world, not some sort of crypto-anti-Semitism.

Hmmm... not too sure about that. I found it offensive. Thinly veiled to me.

203 Dreader1962  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:48:07am

re: #185 Chekote

I agree with you. Initially, I thought it was a run of the mill conspirancy but the refusal of people to accept the Birth Certificate released by Hawaii, the newspaper announcements, the statement by officials confirming the place of birth leads me to think that something else is motivating this lie. Also, I don't recall anyone questioning the birth place of Clinton, Bush or any other modern day POTUS candidate. Why question Obama? Because his father was an African? Most likely that is the reason.

You often hear birthers also claim, "Obama doesn't share our values" and other garbage. I think portraying him as 'Enemy of God' is pretty blatant, too. Basically, the "He's not like us!" meme. Also, can anyone point to a birther who is black?

204 MandyManners  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:48:36am

This is all I can find.

[Link: www.imageenvision.com...]

205 MandyManners  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:49:13am

re: #199 marjoriemoon

I guess we all have our losers. And I'm sure you and I have our own ideas on who is worse :)

I believe Trudeau used to draw Condi as a parrot on Bush's shoulder. Honestly I didn't think this was so bigoted. He drew her with a big mouth and teeth. Well, she did have big front teeth, but the mouth I always thought was more to depict a parrot's beak, not that she had big lips.

The other Aunt Jemima one was bad. I can't seem to find it now.

Quayle was a depicted as a feather.

206 Dreader1962  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:49:43am

re: #200 pre-Boomer Marine brat

I've got a Dual 1229 turntable I've been trying to find a home for. Send your shipping address.

:D

Sorry - not event worth the shipping cost to relive a memory.

Thanks for the offer, though.

207 Occasional Reader  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:49:57am

re: #193 trendsurfer

God's enemy?...that's old hat. Ann Coulter was calling the Dems godless well before Obama became President. You have to understand, conservatives and the GOP have that God thing cornered. The tragic part (snicker) is they've painted themselves into it.

Oh, no, they don't. I recall John Kerry quoting scripture no fewer than three times during one of the Bush/Kerry debates. (He also famously, and hilariously, opined that "if Jesus were alive today", he'd support single-payer health care (or something like that).)

And then there's Obama. "We are all God's partners in matters of life and death."

208 Claire  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:50:04am

re: #203 Dreader1962

Also, can anyone point to a birther who is black?

Allen Keyes, I think he was in it with Orly Taitz?

209 Guanxi88  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:50:06am

re: #1 MandyManners

"God's enemy"?

I'm not one to yell "Incitement!" in a crowded country, but I'd say that definitely counts as vilification of the worst kind. I go further, it's a wink and a nod to those with hate in their hearts and violence in their minds. After all, if the Lord Himself hates the man...

210 KingKenrod  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:50:44am

re: #203 Dreader1962

You often hear birthers also claim, "Obama doesn't share our values" and other garbage. I think portraying him as 'Enemy of God' is pretty blatant, too. Basically, the "He's not like us!" meme. Also, can anyone point to a birther who is black?

Alan Keyes. He called Obama a "usurper".

211 Guanxi88  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:51:07am

re: #208 Claire

Allen Keyes, I think he was in it with Orly Taitz?

Ambassador Keyes is just whacky enough to align himself with anybody or anything, so long as it's at least as radical as his last position. Brilliant mind, but unsound.

212 tradewind  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:51:18am

re: #204 MandyManners

Go the the new issues of People Style and InStyle or Allure magazines... they're pushing 'em for Fall.
Think I'll pass...not such a great look on 5'2".

213 MandyManners  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:52:08am

[Link: specials.rediff.com...]

214 Chekote  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:52:42am

re: #211 Guanxi88

Keyes is a crook and a hustler. He is on a perpetual campaign for POTUS so that he can live off the "campaign contributions" of saps.

215 MandyManners  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:52:56am

re: #209 Guanxi88

I'm not one to yell "Incitement!" in a crowded country, but I'd say that definitely counts as vilification of the worst kind. I go further, it's a wink and a nod to those with hate in their hearts and violence in their minds. After all, if the Lord Himself hates the man...

How did God tell them that?

216 Flyers1974  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:53:17am

re: #163 JamesTKirk

You mean like all the people in blue states who wanted to leave "Jesusland" in 2004?

Depends on the definition of "all the people."

217 Dreader1962  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:53:33am

re: #208 Claire

Allen Keyes, I think he was in it with Orly Taitz?

Oh yeah, I forgot about him.

I used to have a positive opinion of him until I attended a speech he gave. The speech was good, but the in the receiving line where I met him, I found him to be very insincere. Nothing obvious, but when a man won't look you in the eye as he shakes your hand and exchanges greetings, it's not a good thing. My personal gut-level reaction was not positive, and I've learned to trust my gut after many years.

Of course, his behavior after this confirmed my judgment.

218 Occasional Reader  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:53:35am

re: #204 MandyManners

This is all I can find.

[Link: www.imageenvision.com...]

Speaking on behalf of heterosexual men everywhere: HELL yeah! Works for me.

219 Guanxi88  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:53:38am

re: #212 tradewind

Go the the new issues of People Style and InStyle or Allure magazines... they're pushing 'em for Fall.
Think I'll pass...not such a great look on 5'2".

I've seen some ladies who were by not means tall who have managed to pull off the look quite nicely. One never knows until one tries.

Take me, for instance - I'd always been a square-top pocket square guy; wouldn't dream of using elaborate folds or such. And then one day, after an afternoon of strong drink, I mustered up the courage to try this outrageous new look, and it went quite well.

220 JamesTKirk  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:53:44am

re: #207 Occasional Reader

Oh, no, they don't. I recall John Kerry quoting scripture no fewer than three times during one of the Bush/Kerry debates. (He also famously, and hilariously, opined that "if Jesus were alive today", he'd support single-payer health care (or something like that).)

And then there's Obama. "We are all God's partners in matters of life and death."

Gore also quotes scripture (albeit incorrectly) and has tried to tie environmentalism to religion at every opportunity.

221 lurking faith  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:53:52am

OT

Am I correct in thinking that the contact form is currently not available? I was looking all over for it and see no trace.

222 Guanxi88  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:54:08am

re: #215 MandyManners

How did God tell them that?

Enemy of G-d, they call him.

223 MandyManners  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:54:37am

re: #212 tradewind

Here she is.

[Link: www.washingtonpost.com...]

224 What, me worry?  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:54:54am

re: #205 MandyManners

Quayle was a depicted as a feather.

I don't recall that. I'll have to google.

I'm not saying Parrot Condi wasn't racist. It certainly could be seen that way. Personally, I found the Aunt Jemima reference particularly horrible.

225 Occasional Reader  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:55:13am

re: #204 MandyManners

This is all I can find.

[Link: www.imageenvision.com...]

Did you notice there's actually a photo of Condi on that page, too?

226 BlackFedora  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:55:22am

That's one of the most sleazy, cheaply made commercials I've ever seen...

227 Flyers1974  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:55:27am

re: #205 MandyManners

Quayle was a depicted as a feather.

Clinton as a buttered waffle.

228 Guanxi88  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:56:00am

re: #226 BlackFedora

That's one of the most sleazy, cheaply made commercials I've ever seen...

Then you've not been watching enough UHF broadcast TV, 'cause there's a lot worse out there.

229 MandyManners  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:56:02am

re: #224 marjoriemoon

I don't recall that. I'll have to google.

I'm not saying Parrot Condi wasn't racist. It certainly could be seen that way. Personally, I found the Aunt Jemima reference particularly horrible.

I never saw Trudeau do that.

230 KingKenrod  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:56:13am

Gary Kreep helped Alan Keyes file a motion in California asking the California secretary of state to decertify Obama's 55 electoral votes on the basis that he had not proven his eligibility.

231 MandyManners  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:56:20am

re: #229 MandyManners

I never saw Trudeau do that.

The Jemima rot, that is.

232 Uncle Meat  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:56:25am

Are the people shilling this a tax exempt organization? According to their website: "Liveprayer.Com is operated 100% through donations. As part of Bill Keller Ministries, a 501(c)(3) organization, all donations to Liveprayer.Com are tax deductible."

233 Occasional Reader  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:56:27am

re: #219 Guanxi88

I've seen some ladies who were by not means tall who have managed to pull off the look quite nicely. One never knows until one tries.

Absitively. Petite women can carry off the "these boots were made for walkin'" look quite grandly.

234 MandyManners  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:56:52am

re: #225 Occasional Reader

Did you notice there's actually a photo of Condi on that page, too?

Must be why that link popped up.

235 Guanxi88  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:57:05am

re: #232 Uncle Meat

Are the people shilling this a tax exempt organization? According to their website: "Liveprayer.Com is operated 100% through donations. As part of Bill Keller Ministries, a 501(c)(3) organization, all donations to Liveprayer.Com are tax deductible."

Not for long, if there's an justice.

236 MandyManners  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:57:11am

re: #227 Flyers1974

Clinton as a buttered waffle.

What was Hillary?

237 Ian MacGregor  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:57:33am

re: #42 tradewind

re: #42 tradewind

Actually if you were into conspiracies, you would think the DNC was using agent provocateurs. Perhaps the money is going to its coffers. Even though the message is decidedly non-Christian, it ties in Christians with Nirthers, and the Nirthers inability to accept the President is indeed racially driven. Thus tying Christians to racists.

I can assure you that this hate for Obama is not being taught in Christian churches. There are lots of congregations, so it would be hard to deny it does not happen anywhere.

238 tradewind  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:57:34am

re: #213 MandyManners

Those boots Condi has on in the picture look like my riding boots, the same kind I've bought since the 70's... for riding. Who knew they were a fashion statement?

239 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:57:45am

Quayle as a feather was classic political satire, picturing him as a "lightweight".

/even though I didn't like its use

240 JamesTKirk  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:57:48am

re: #226 BlackFedora

That's one of the most sleazy, cheaply made commercials I've ever seen...

Youtube Video
241 Throbert McGee  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:58:06am

re: #170 Mich-again

A quick litmus test is to ask them what they would think of their child marrying a person of a different race.

That's not necessarily a good litmus test, because people are protective of their own children, and theoretically they might be concerned that their child would be "scorned by society" for being in a mixed-race relationship, or that the grandkids might get beaten up, or something like that.

HOWEVER, if you ask them what they would think if their sibling married a person of a different race, and if the forthcoming answer includes a phrase like "naturally repulsed," it's a pretty safe bet that you've got a racist on your hands!*

*One possible exception: An immigrant who's FOB. Well, technically they'd still be racist, but you could cut them a little slack because they are, after all, fresh off the boat -- while at the same time gently reminding them that Real Americans™ don't give a damn about the race of in-laws, and if they expect to be taken seriously as Real Americans™, they'd best assimilate on this point right quick.

242 Occasional Reader  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:58:36am

re: #203 Dreader1962

You often hear birthers also claim, "Obama doesn't share our values"

I would be VERY careful as qualifying someone who utters that line as "racist", at least based on that information alone. It's an EXTREMELY common charge in politics; people on the left would say the same thing about Bush and Republicans.

243 JamesTKirk  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:58:46am

re: #233 Occasional Reader

Absitively. Petite women can carry off the "these boots were made for walkin'" look quite grandly.

So can green women, or Uhura in the mirror universe. Mmmm...

244 JamesTKirk  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:59:25am

re: #239 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Quayle as a feather was classic political satire, picturing him as a "lightweight".

/even though I didn't like its use

Not to mention a pun on his name, and the bird "quail".

245 Flyers1974  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 11:59:26am

re: #236 MandyManners

What was Hillary?

Don't know if she was ever depicted. I thought Doonesbury was (is?) the least funny cartoon around. Except for Family Circus maybe.

246 Occasional Reader  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:00:18pm

re: #239 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Quayle as a feather was classic political satire, picturing him as a "lightweight".

/even though I didn't like its use

I always had the impression that it was meant to be a symbol of cowardice, a reference to his having escaped having to serve in Vietnam. Might be wrong.

247 What, me worry?  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:00:44pm

re: #229 MandyManners

I never saw Trudeau do that.

No, it was danziger, an Aunt Jemima-type image.

Other folks photoshopped Condi's face into Butterfly McQueen or the Aunt Jemima image.

248 tradewind  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:01:26pm

re: #219 Guanxi88

My kids see me in boots all the time, but I think those would get me the ' no way Mom' razzy.
Ok, I just saw that Obama video thing... what is with the 'mmm, mmm mmm' chorus? It sounds like they're saying he's tasty.

249 Dreader1962  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:01:40pm

re: #242 Occasional Reader

I would be VERY careful as qualifying someone who utters that line as "racist", at least based on that information alone. It's an EXTREMELY common charge in politics; people on the left would say the same thing about Bush and Republicans.

Yes, but it takes a different tone when combined with a claim that he was born in Kenya.

I don't claim that ALL birthers are racist, but this ad and the combination of messages is enough to make a judgment. I doubt that any of these groups would explicitly give proof beyond a reasonable doubt (i.e. legal standard) in their advertising material.

250 Shiplord Kirel  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:01:41pm

re: #169 Charles

The principal of the school where those children sang the song about Obama has been receiving death threats, by the way.

Good work, Michelle Malkin.

David Frum posted this on August 13th but it is well worth repeating:

The Reckless Right Courts Violence

The Nazi comparisons from Rush Limbaugh; broadcaster Mark Levin asserting that President Obama is “literally at war with the American people”; former vice presidential candidate Sarah Palin claiming that the president was planning “death panels” to extirpate the aged and disabled; the charges that the president is a fascist, a socialist, a Marxist, an illegitimate Kenyan fraud, that he “harbors a deep resentment of America,” that he feels a “deep-seated hatred of white people,” that his government is preparing concentration camps, that it is operating snitch lines, that it is planning to wipe away American liberties”: All this hysterical and provocative talk invites, incites, and prepares a prefabricated justification for violence.

And indeed some conservative broadcasters are lovingly anticipating just such an outcome.

Here’s Fox News’ Glenn Beck clucking sympathetically that white males are being driven into murderous rage by “political correctness.”

Here again is Beck chuckling as he play-acts the poisoning of Nancy Pelosi.

Just yesterday, the radio host Sean Hannity openly contemplated violence—and primly tut-tutted that if it occurs, the president will have only himself to blame.

Hyperbolic accusation and fantasy murder may well serve a talk-radio industry facing a collapse in advertising revenues—down 30–40 percent over the past two years, reports NewMajority.com’s Tim Mak.

As revenues dwindle, hosts feel compelled to intensify the talk-radio experience, hoping to win larger audience share with more extreme talk. It’s like the early days of the pornography industry: At first a naked woman is thrilling enough, but soon a jaded audience is demanding more and more, wilder and wilder.

For the radio hosts, it’s all mostly a cynical marketing exercise. But the audience? Not all of them know better. (emphasis added)

David correctly identifies this as a marketing strategy, the same motivation that pushed "mainstream" media to the left during their heyday in the 60s and 70s. The same thing is happening with the right wing media that happened with the left in the 60s, the incorporation of a radical counterculture as a standard element of marketing and advertising appeals within the established media industry. Whether it will become similarly dominant is anyone's guess. Mine is that it will not, since it does not have the advantage of the virtual monopoly the Big Three enjoyed 40 years ago.

251 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:01:44pm

re: #221 lurking faith

OT

Am I correct in thinking that the contact form is currently not available? I was looking all over for it and see no trace.

Hmm, interesting.
Just went up and looked, and I can't find it either.

252 Occasional Reader  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:02:11pm

re: #241 Throbert McGee

That's not necessarily a good litmus test, because people are protective of their own children, and theoretically they might be concerned that their child would be "scorned by society" for being in a mixed-race relationship, or that the grandkids might get beaten up, or something like that.

In my experience, that excuse is usually just that; an excuse.

253 Flyers1974  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:02:24pm

re: #246 Occasional Reader

I always had the impression that it was meant to be a symbol of cowardice, a reference to his having escaped having to serve in Vietnam. Might be wrong.

I read a book in which Claire Chennault used the term "white feather" to depict cowerdice. Never heard it anywhere else though. It may be an old-timre reference.

254 MandyManners  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:02:32pm

Boots.


Youtube Video
255 2senseplain  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:02:50pm

Sorry if I seem hopelessly dense, Boomer, or whoever else can be helpful but the box under the URL and Title boxes says description and doesn't expand although I did type in a description. The title I typed in(and checked against the original URL) appears at the bottom of the submission form sending me to a box with an angry lizard and a NO SPACE on the Internet message referring to the to the true mission of "LFG" which when you click it sends you back to an old cartoon about Zionist checks(which I haven't yet recieved, BTW) but no subject menu. What am I doing wrong?

256 tradewind  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:02:59pm

re: #237 Ian MacGregor

Every Sunday, our service includes a prayer for ' Barack, our President'.
No one boos. No one even groans.
I must not be going to a really serious church.
///

257 Guanxi88  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:03:36pm

re: #248 tradewind

My kids see me in boots all the time, but I think those would get me the ' no way Mom' razzy.
Ok, I just saw that Obama video thing... what is with the 'mmm, mmm mmm' chorus? It sounds like they're saying he's tasty.

Never know till you try, and kids are not always reliable arbiters of fashion.

as for the hum-grunt thing, I think that's a trick to allow everyone to wrap up at the same time to start the next stanza. A common trick with groups of kiddos trying to slog their way through some song or other, the hum-grunt (or clap or finger-snapping) covers those who are running behind in their recitation and lets everyone start fresh on the next go-around.

258 HelloDare  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:03:47pm

Palate cleanser: A hole and Maru.

Youtube Video
259 MandyManners  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:03:57pm

re: #245 Flyers1974

Don't know if she was ever depicted. I thought Doonesbury was (is?) the least funny cartoon around. Except for Family Circus maybe.

You don't like NotMe and IdaKnow?

260 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:04:16pm

re: #246 Occasional Reader

I always had the impression that it was meant to be a symbol of cowardice, a reference to his having escaped having to serve in Vietnam. Might be wrong.

Could be. I don't know. Never read the strip all that much.
Perhaps the essence of art is that it lets the viewer read whatever into it.

261 Shiplord Kirel  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:04:20pm

re: #253 Flyers1974

I read a book in which Claire Chennault used the term "white feather" to depict cowerdice. Never heard it anywhere else though. It may be an old-timre reference.

The Four Feathers

262 Occasional Reader  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:04:51pm

re: #253 Flyers1974

I read a book in which Claire Chennault used the term "white feather" to depict cowerdice. Never heard it anywhere else though. It may be an old-timre reference.

The Four Feathers

Yes, the feather as a symbol of cowardice has a pedigree.

263 lurking faith  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:04:54pm

re: #251 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Hmm, interesting.
Just went up and looked, and I can't find it either.

Dang. I want to point something out to Charles that I'd really rather not post.

264 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:04:55pm

re: #260 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Could be. I don't know. Never read the strip all that much.
Perhaps the essence of art is that it lets the viewer read whatever into it.

Oops ... not meant as a slap against you, OR.

265 MandyManners  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:05:05pm

Mr. Cranky calls. bbl

266 Occasional Reader  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:05:27pm

re: #259 MandyManners

You don't like NotMe and IdaKnow?

I use to clip out Family Circus cartoons and hang them on a bullseye on my dartboard.

267 poteen  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:05:47pm

re: #169 Charles

The principal of the school where those children sang the song about Obama has been receiving death threats, by the way.

Good work, Michelle Malkin.

Thats hardly fair Charles. It assumes she condones or had something to do with death threats. She posted on it like many other bloggers and I didn't see any calls to violence. Agree or disagree it's not fair to make loose connections regarding her posts, nor yours.

268 Occasional Reader  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:05:56pm

re: #264 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Oops ... not meant as a slap against you, OR.

I KEEL YOU! ! ! !

269 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:05:58pm

re: #261 Shiplord Kirel

The Four Feathers

You can Seymour in that movie than in most others.

270 lurking faith  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:06:12pm

re: #253 Flyers1974

I read a book in which Claire Chennault used the term "white feather" to depict cowerdice. Never heard it anywhere else though. It may be an old-timre reference.

British. In World War I, girls used to go around giving white feathers to young men who had not enlisted.

271 Occasional Reader  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:06:26pm

re: #261 Shiplord Kirel

Jinx!

272 Randall Gross  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:07:41pm

According to DU /take with grain of salt, but might be true / these guys are associated with Alan Keyes / Bloody Randall Terry

273 Flyers1974  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:07:44pm

re: #259 MandyManners

You don't like NotMe and IdaKnow?

That took a minute to register... Once I stopped buying newspapers and read the online versions instead, I guess I've stopped reading the comics.

274 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:07:55pm

re: #263 lurking faith

Dang. I want to point something out to Charles that I'd really rather not post.

Why don't you "report" your original question, and your 263, to Charles?

275 2senseplain  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:08:38pm

re: #270 lurking faith

Okay, but why did they pick a white feather?

276 JamesTKirk  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:09:48pm

re: #273 Flyers1974

That took a minute to register... Once I stopped buying newspapers and read the online versions instead, I guess I've stopped reading the comics.

I read a different array of comics online. Much more original content in webcomics than in the tired, decades-old cookie-cutter syndicated newspaper comics.

277 Flyers1974  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:09:52pm

re: #270 lurking faith

British. In World War I, girls used to go around giving white feathers to young men who had not enlisted.

That would be embarrassing.

278 Charles Johnson  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:09:54pm

re: #272 Thanos

According to DU /take with grain of salt, but might be true / these guys are associated with Alan Keyes / Bloody Randall Terry

That wouldn't be surprising at all.

And get ready for the next dim-witted conspiracy theory -- it's been bubbling away for a while but now Weird Nut Drooly creationist writer Jack Cashill is starting to push it hard: that Bill Ayers wrote Barack Obama's autobiography.

Several right wing blogs are raving about it.

279 Flyers1974  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:10:50pm

re: #276 JamesTKirk

I read a different array of comics online. Much more original content in webcomics than in the tired, decades-old cookie-cutter syndicated newspaper comics.

Ever heard of Bizzaroworld? I think that was my favorite.

280 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:11:02pm

re: #275 2senseplain

Okay, but why did they pick a white feather?

See the Wiki page, under "Symbol of cowardice" near the top.

281 lurking faith  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:11:08pm

re: #274 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Why don't you "report" your original question, and your 263, to Charles?

It's not something that's possible to report.

I guess it will have to be e-mail. But I'm not sure I know the address.

282 Charles Johnson  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:11:16pm

re: #263 lurking faith

Dang. I want to point something out to Charles that I'd really rather not post.

Send email to my first name at my domain name.

283 albusteve  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:11:21pm

modern American art...
saw four of these guys at the winery down the road today...I want one


Image: shelby-cobra-427.thumbnail.jpg

284 lurking faith  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:11:35pm

re: #277 Flyers1974

That would be embarrassing.

That was the idea.

285 lurking faith  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:11:54pm

re: #282 Charles
Thanks. Will do.

286 Charles Johnson  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:12:00pm

The contact form is currently disabled because I'm tired of people using it to send hate mail.

287 Guanxi88  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:12:32pm

re: #278 Charles

That wouldn't be surprising at all.

And get ready for the next dim-witted conspiracy theory -- it's been bubbling away for a while but now Weird Nut Drooly creationist writer Jack Cashill is starting to push it hard: that Bill Ayers wrote Barack Obama's autobiography.

Several right wing blogs are raving about it.

Okay, so what if he did? This is like the breathless warnings of Alex Jones et al. about a coming cashless society and the decline of the US Dollar as a foreign reserve currency. They warn and warn and warn about it, how awful it is, and when it happens, they say, "We told you," but it doesn't mean a damned thing as regards their other stuff.

So Ayers ghost-wrote for Obama. It wouldn't surprise me if he did have some kind of help, Ayers is clearly a fair-to-middling writer, so why not, and so what?

288 Randall Gross  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:13:03pm

re: #278 Charles

That wouldn't be surprising at all.

And get ready for the next dim-witted conspiracy theory -- it's been bubbling away for a while but now Weird Nut Drooly creationist writer Jack Cashill is starting to push it hard: that Bill Ayers wrote Barack Obama's autobiography.

Several right wing blogs are raving about it.

It's recycling the campaign endlessly because the right pundits are almost without exception lazy sods. Why look forward when we can sling yesterday's rancid hash again?

289 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:13:05pm

re: #281 lurking faith

It's not something that's possible to report.

I guess it will have to be e-mail. But I'm not sure I know the address.

No, I mean the question you posted up-thread about not being able to find the Contact form.

I'm gonna "Report" this comment to him

290 Flyers1974  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:13:10pm

re: #284 lurking faith

That was the idea.

Indeed. And effective, I bet.

291 Mich-again  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:13:26pm

re: #241 Throbert McGee

*One possible exception: An immigrant who's FOB.

A little slack for the boaters. (Thats the term I've heard some people around here use for what you call an FOB)

292 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:13:32pm

re: #286 Charles

The contact form is currently disabled because I'm tired of people using it to send hate mail.

Ah HA!
Now we know.

293 2senseplain  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:14:43pm

re: #280 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Thank you. I'm still stuck on the subject menu problem.

294 Occasional Reader  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:15:05pm

re: #287 Guanxi88

The idea certainly does not require the sort of massive willing suspension of disbelief that, say, 9/11 Trooferism does. But I still doubt they have any serious evidence for it.

295 Guanxi88  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:15:09pm

re: #241 Throbert McGee

*One possible exception: An immigrant who's FOB. .

Whenever I see FOB, I always start hinking about transit times, port costs, off-loading charges, etc. FOB - "Free On-Board" - the cargo is loaded onto a vessel of buyer's choosing, and seller transfers ownership as soon as it clears the rail.

296 lostlakehiker  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:15:21pm

re: #20 Charles

At this point, I'm absolutely convinced that the Birther insanity is being perpetuated by barely concealed racism. These are people who just can't stand the idea that a black man has been elected to the presidency, but they have a vague sense that it might not be OK to come right out and say that. So instead, the suppressed racism is oozing out in this kind of craziness.

Imagine that Colin Powell were president. Now try to imagine birther conspiracy theories. It wouldn't happen.

It isn't that Obama is half black. He is, after all, half Kansas white-bread white, if you keep track. It's that he grew up in an alien milieu, and the people caught up in this nonsense feel that whether or not he was born in Hawaii, his formative experiences include a lot from those alien settings. From that perspective, the birth certificate can be seen as accurate but nevertheless fake. So then people slide from that into believing, or making themselves believe, that even its de-jure accuracy must somehow be fake.

This sort of way of looking at things has to be a lot more seductive to somebody who's never been abroad. If you've seen more of the world, you realize that having a mother from Kansas, and spending some of your childhood years in Hawaii, will be sufficient to make you an American in fact as well as in law.

297 JamesTKirk  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:15:47pm

re: #279 Flyers1974

Ever heard of Bizzaroworld? I think that was my favorite.

Not ringing a bell...

298 Ian MacGregor  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:16:01pm

re: #81 Charles

THere is a difference in singing a song for a president who is visiting the school and singing about one every day. However, these are kids, let them be starry-eyed about the president. They will become cynics soon enough.

We teach young about Santa Claus, George Washington and the cherry tree, and present U.S. history without its warts. Let them enjoy this age. They grow up far too fast these days.

If there are high school student singing about Obama's refulgence, then I would have a concern.

299 albusteve  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:16:53pm

re: #287 Guanxi88

Okay, so what if he did? This is like the breathless warnings of Alex Jones et al. about a coming cashless society and the decline of the US Dollar as a foreign reserve currency. They warn and warn and warn about it, how awful it is, and when it happens, they say, "We told you," but it doesn't mean a damned thing as regards their other stuff.

So Ayers ghost-wrote for Obama. It wouldn't surprise me if he did have some kind of help, Ayers is clearly a fair-to-middling writer, so why not, and so what?

I think the idea is that BO did not claim to know Ayers at the time the book was written...as for me...yawn

300 Mich-again  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:16:56pm

re: #278 Charles

And get ready for the next dim-witted conspiracy theory -- it's been bubbling away for a while but now Weird Nut Drooly creationist writer Jack Cashill is starting to push it hard: that Bill Ayers wrote Barack Obama's autobiography.

Thats actually a pretty old one. I first heard speculation about that back during the campaign.

301 Occasional Reader  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:17:03pm

re: #280 pre-Boomer Marine brat

See the Wiki page, under "Symbol of cowardice" near the top.

Huh:

The white feather as a symbol of cowardice comes from cockfighting and the belief that a cockerel sporting a white feather in its tail is likely to be a poor fighter. Pure-breed gamecocks do not show white feathers, so its presence indicates that the cockerel is an inferior cross-breed.

Didn't know that.

An aside: I bet I'm the only person on this thread who has actually been to a cockfight. (Yes, I said "cockfights"... go ahead, get it out of your system, gang...)

302 Guanxi88  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:17:13pm

re: #294 Occasional Reader

The idea certainly does not require the sort of massive willing suspension of disbelief that, say, 9/11 Trooferism does. But I still doubt they have any serious evidence for it.

It's true - it's not some elaborate conspiracy, but, much as I disapprove of Ayers and many other of the President's associates and others who find themselves pulled into his orbit (and vice versa), I don't read anything ominous or important into the idea that Ayers ghostwrote for him.

UNLESS, they're claiming the Bill Ayers lived out President Obama's life for him, and is in fact currently in the White House in disguise, it strikes me as no big deal.

303 JamesTKirk  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:17:16pm

re: #291 Mich-again

A little slack for the boaters. (Thats the term I've heard some people around here use for what you call an FOB)

It's a good thing they explained what they meant by FOB, because my original thought was "Friend Of Bill"?

304 Flyers1974  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:17:52pm

re: #297 JamesTKirk

Not ringing a bell...

My fault, Bizzaro, not Bizzaro World.

[Link: www.seattlepi.com...]

305 SixDegrees  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:18:00pm

re: #287 Guanxi88

Okay, so what if he did? This is like the breathless warnings of Alex Jones et al. about a coming cashless society and the decline of the US Dollar as a foreign reserve currency. They warn and warn and warn about it, how awful it is, and when it happens, they say, "We told you," but it doesn't mean a damned thing as regards their other stuff.

So Ayers ghost-wrote for Obama. It wouldn't surprise me if he did have some kind of help, Ayers is clearly a fair-to-middling writer, so why not, and so what?

Well, because...because...because Ayers is Satan!. Or Beelzebub. Or one of Lucifer's sidekicks, anway, 'cause I guess 0bama is really Satan and Ayers is just one of his fiendish minions...or...something.

/

306 Guanxi88  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:18:09pm

re: #299 albusteve

I think the idea is that BO did not claim to know Ayers at the time the book was written...as for me...yawn

Great, now you got me yawning.

307 HelloDare  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:18:21pm

re: #278 Charles

That wouldn't be surprising at all.

And get ready for the next dim-witted conspiracy theory -- it's been bubbling away for a while but now Weird Nut Drooly creationist writer Jack Cashill is starting to push it hard: that Bill Ayers wrote Barack Obama's autobiography.

Several right wing blogs are raving about it.

A link to the American Thinker post on Cashill has been spunoff here several times. It's nonsense. But even if it were true, there's no way of proving it short of a receipt from Ayers. It does nothing but make the right look stupid. Even more stupid.

308 Ojoe  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:18:54pm

re: #117 reine.de.tout

IIRC a number of children's nursery rhymes were topical political themes when they were new.

309 JamesTKirk  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:19:02pm

re: #301 Occasional Reader

An aside: I bet I'm the only person on this thread who has actually been to a cockfight.

In bed.

(Yes, I said "cockfights"... go ahead, get it out of your system, gang...)

OK, but only because you told me to.

310 Occasional Reader  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:19:40pm

re: #302 Guanxi88

I think it would be a fairly big deal, and a terrible embarrassment for Obama, if it could be shown that a domestic terrorist actually ghost-wrote his autobiography. But again, without having looked into it at all, I'm guessing the charge is just ridiculous.

311 debutaunt  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:19:54pm

re: #194 MandyManners

Asshole. She shoulda' stomped his insteps with her stilleto boots.

hahahaahahahahahahahahahhaaa

312 JamesTKirk  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:20:09pm

re: #304 Flyers1974

My fault, Bizzaro, not Bizzaro World.

[Link: www.seattlepi.com...]

I dropped it after seeing one moonbat cartoon there too many. (They're only occasional, but they're regular.)

313 Aye Pod  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:20:09pm

From Harry's Place -

Your View, September 26th 2009, 5:43 pm

The Scottish Piazza Echoes to the Liberation Beat


I make a case in the book for a broad nationalism, believing that Scotland can retain its distinctiveness in partnership with the other nations and communities of these islands. I fear that the conspiratorial ways in which the SNP is manipulating nationalism will eventually lead to a backlash against the entire national principle as Scots recoil from the way it mishandles power. Albert Camus once remarked that there were Europeans who had decided that they loved their nations too much to be nationalists. I will belong squarely in that category until the SNP gets beyond the teenage state of stirring up mostly imaginary grievances against other countries and devises a serious programme for governing the country that acknowledges Scotland’s very real weaknesses as well as its strengths, both actual and potential.

What that man said.

full article : [Link: www.hurryupharry.org...]

314 Occasional Reader  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:20:13pm

re: #305 SixDegrees

Well, because...because...because Ayers is Satan!.

Satan? No. Evil? Yes.

315 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:21:37pm

re: #293 2senseplain

Thank you. I'm still stuck on the subject menu problem.

Okay. I just went and took a look.
See the big "Description" text box, and a row of four thingies below it?
The thingy on the left says "Choose Category".

Left-click the down-arrow on it, then highlight the subject which is most appropriate for your spin-off. That "category" should appear in that little window when the menu collapses.

(When you're done, click the "Submit" button right next to it.)

316 Mich-again  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:21:55pm

The other conspiracy is the question of Obama's dual citizenship as an Indonesian. As it goes, since Obama was adopted by his mom's second husband and moved to Indonesia he would have automatically been given Indonesian citizenship which he would have had to renounce at age 18 but there is no evidence he ever did that. Something like that.

Another way to help soothe the fractured egos.

317 lurking faith  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:22:06pm

re: #282 Charles

Just sent. More ghosts.

318 Guanxi88  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:22:20pm

re: #310 Occasional Reader

I think it would be a fairly big deal, and a terrible embarrassment for Obama, if it could be shown that a domestic terrorist actually ghost-wrote his autobiography. But again, without having looked into it at all, I'm guessing the charge is just ridiculous.


Not saying the association with Ayers isn't troubling; we all know it was real, we can imagine that there was a fair amount of mutual exploitation involved in it. The denials were patently false and unbelievable, and repetition just made them seem even more desperately untrue. No, BHO and Ayers were chummy, quite close, for reasons of ideology and geography and leftist politics. No reasonable person can doubt they were pretty well mobbed up together.

To attempt to trot out a literary collaboration as proof of something already fairly well established is just pointless.

319 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:22:22pm

re: #301 Occasional Reader

Didn't know that.

An aside: I bet I'm the only person on this thread who has actually been to a cockfight. (Yes, I said "cockfights"... go ahead, get it out of your system, gang...)

*gives OR the bird*

320 HelloDare  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:23:01pm

re: #287 Guanxi88

Okay, so what if he did? This is like the breathless warnings of Alex Jones et al. about a coming cashless society and the decline of the US Dollar as a foreign reserve currency. They warn and warn and warn about it, how awful it is, and when it happens, they say, "We told you," but it doesn't mean a damned thing as regards their other stuff.

So Ayers ghost-wrote for Obama. It wouldn't surprise me if he did have some kind of help, Ayers is clearly a fair-to-middling writer, so why not, and so what?

It would prove that Ayers wasn't just some casual acquaintance as Obama asserts. That's why they're grasping at this straw.

321 Occasional Reader  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:23:51pm

re: #319 pre-Boomer Marine brat

*gives OR the bird*

Are you cocking a snook at me? Well, you're a jive-ass turkey!

322 Guanxi88  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:23:57pm

re: #320 HelloDare

It would prove that Ayers wasn't just some casual acquaintance as Obama asserts. That's why they're grasping at this straw.

But no one doubts that he's being less than candid about his association with Ayers. Even lefties, I'm sure, know it to be true.

323 Flyers1974  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:24:21pm

re: #303 JamesTKirk

It's a good thing they explained what they meant by FOB, because my original thought was "Friend Of Bill"?

Or Free on Board. A shipping term.

324 Ojoe  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:24:38pm

Rooster song
Gallo del Cielo.

325 Mich-again  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:24:54pm

Another conspiracy is that Obama was part of Weather Underground during the missing years at Columbia.

326 Throbert McGee  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:25:44pm

re: #259 MandyManners

You don't like NotMe and IdaKnow?

M-ust... resist... urge... to link the Dysfunctional Family Circus archive.

Oh, dammit. Shame on me.

327 Aye Pod  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:25:51pm
India's caste system stretches back thousands of years and was not largely a creation of colonial rule, as some historians claim, a genetic study has shown.

[Link: www.telegraph.co.uk...]

328 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:27:25pm

re: #321 Occasional Reader

Are you cocking a snook at me? Well, you're a jive-ass turkey!

(Hang in there, I'll let you know wren I'm finished.)
Are you robin me of my good reputation?
Perhaps you're right, but I don't consider it anything to crow about.

/your turn

329 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:27:30pm

It makes no sense. There is evidence that Obama was born in the United States. There is no evidence that he was born elsewhere. This is the world's biggest waste of everyone's time.

330 Guanxi88  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:27:45pm

re: #321 Occasional Reader

Are you cocking a snook at me? Well, you're a jive-ass turkey!

Easy there! Turkeys can kill, especially mutated junky turkeys.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

Worst movie I've ever seen. Production budget was the change they found in the couch.

331 JamesTKirk  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:27:46pm

re: #327 Jimmah

[Link: www.telegraph.co.uk...]

I thought everything was the fault of colonialism!

332 lurking faith  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:28:11pm

Time to go run a few more errands. I was hoping it would stop raining first, but...

bbl

333 Aye Pod  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:28:17pm

'Christopher Hitchens' on Q TV discussing the addition of 3 new commandments to the original ten:

Youtube Video
334 albusteve  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:28:26pm

re: #320 HelloDare

It would prove that Ayers wasn't just some casual acquaintance as Obama asserts. That's why they're grasping at this straw.

few people care anyway...he would just say something like "my association with Bill Ayres is not an association with Bill Ayres"

335 Guanxi88  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:29:09pm

re: #334 albusteve

few people care anyway...he would just say something like "my association with Bill Ayres is not an association with Bill Ayres"

You forgot to add:

"Let me be perfectly clear. As I've said many times..."

336 Mich-again  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:29:25pm

Michigan squeaks out another win in yet another game void of defense. Its like arena football but I'll take wins any way at all after the dismal season last year. W00t!

337 theheat  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:29:46pm

Live Prayer is a pretty classy site, right up there with the very best of the fundie extremists. Not only eager to jump on the nirther bandwagon, they also produced a little film clip about Obama/Hitler, complete with mangled aborted fetuses following archive footage of Holocaust victims.

Obama's hope and change will ensure the death of millions of innocent babies, and bring down the wrath of God on this nation...

They really need to change up their game; do something original. I mean, this is all so Falwell-1980s-esque. This Obama/Hitler/pro-life snuff pictures thing has been run up the flagpole so many times, it's lost impact. I've already seen Hostel, Touristas, and all the Saws, and I can still whistle a happy tune and eat ice cream, unfazed, while these extremist loons broadcast their crazy revisionist shit. Personally, I find depictions of the Holocaust almost unbearable. The fact they equate one to the other, and want people to swallow the relativity, and blame Obama, is the real horror show.

I'm more curious about their tax-exempt status, if it exists. No doubt, their propaganda campaign effects a huge payday.

George Carlin is quoted as saying:

He [God] needs money! He always needs money! He's all-powerful, all-perfect, all-knowing, and all-wise, somehow just can't handle money! Religion takes in billions of dollars, they pay no taxes, and they always need a little more. Now, you talk about a good bullshit story. Holy Shit!

Live Prayer is in the snuff film and bumper sticker business. Just one more group of people to handle God's money for Him. They won't be getting one red cent of mine.

338 albusteve  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:30:12pm

re: #329 SanFranciscoZionist

It makes no sense. There is evidence that Obama was born in the United States. There is no evidence that he was born elsewhere. This is the world's biggest waste of everyone's time.

it pales in comparison with his waste of time dealing with Iranian nukes

339 tradewind  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:30:26pm

re: #287 Guanxi88

Who care who wrote the book, but there are some fascinating connections between Obama's most trusted advisor in the WH, Valerie Jarrett, and Ayers, going all the way back to her mother and his (Ayers') father. Valerie's father Vernon Jarrett skipped to Hawaii under federal investigation in the fifties, where he became close to Franklin Marshall Davis, Obama's mentor who brought him to Chicago. I'm really amazed that the right wing blogs aren't going bananas over this one.

340 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:30:28pm

re: #325 Mich-again

Another conspiracy is that Obama was part of Weather Underground during the missing years at Columbia.

I doubt that he was "part of it" (card-carrying, active member), but I wouldn't be surprised if I were learn that he hung out with some of them.

It would fit with his prior pattern of behavoir.

341 Guanxi88  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:31:24pm

re: #339 tradewind

Who care who wrote the book, but there are some fascinating connections between Obama's most trusted advisor in the WH, Valerie Jarrett, and Ayers, going all the way back to her mother and his (Ayers') father. Valerie's father Vernon Jarrett skipped to Hawaii under federal investigation in the fifties, where he became close to Franklin Marshall Davis, Obama's mentor who brought him to Chicago. I'm really amazed that the right wing blogs aren't going bananas over this one.

Lack the neat economy of fiction.

342 albusteve  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:31:53pm

re: #336 Mich-again

Michigan squeaks out another win in yet another game void of defense. Its like arena football but I'll take wins any way at all after the dismal season last year. W00t!

GO BLUE!
(my kid is an alumni)

343 tradewind  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:32:01pm

re: #298 Ian MacGregor

Oh, there are. ... praising him as the ' alpha and omega' . You haven't seen that one?

344 Ojoe  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:32:02pm

re: #338 albusteve

1,000 updings.

345 tradewind  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:32:32pm

re: #341 Guanxi88

?

346 Mich-again  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:32:33pm

Ha. A Pre-NASCAR race prayer to the Lord for Courage, Safety and Speed.

347 MandyManners  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:32:55pm

re: #326 Throbert McGee

M-ust... resist... urge... to link the Dysfunctional Family Circus archive.

Oh, dammit. Shame on me.

Stubby. Oh, my.

348 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:32:59pm

re: #20 Charles

At this point, I'm absolutely convinced that the Birther insanity is being perpetuated by barely concealed racism. These are people who just can't stand the idea that a black man has been elected to the presidency, but they have a vague sense that it might not be OK to come right out and say that. So instead, the suppressed racism is oozing out in this kind of craziness.

I keep trying to figure that one out in my own mind. Maybe if Hillary had won, they'd be resurrecting those Vince Foster rumors and demanding that she be tried for murder.

But I think there's an excellent chance that this is the most recent dying gasp of the unique thing that is American racism. (PLease note, that's not to say other countries don't have racism, or that theirs isn't as bad, just that ours grows out of special set of historical circumstances not exactly replicated elsewhere.)

349 Occasional Reader  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:33:26pm

re: #328 pre-Boomer Marine brat

(Hang in there, I'll let you know wren I'm finished.)
Are you robin me of my good reputation?
Perhaps you're right, but I don't consider it anything to crow about.

/your turn

Look, we should stop this bickering, and talk about the political issues of the day. Such as the proposed "capon trade" system.


/hat tip: buzz

350 Aye Pod  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:34:29pm

re: #331 JamesTKirk

I thought everything was the fault of colonialism!

Some things are, but not everything, and not this.

351 Ojoe  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:34:30pm

re: #349 Occasional Reader

Capon trade, where your carbon comes home to roost.

352 Mich-again  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:34:32pm

re: #349 Occasional Reader

Look, we should stop this bickering, and talk about the political issues of the day. Such as the proposed "capon trade" system.

Its a Cardinal sin to derail a thread with puns!

353 Guanxi88  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:34:44pm

re: #345 tradewind

?

There are too many names and other facts to keep track of. It's a difficult story to convey in a few minutes' time, with too many characters.

One of the chief virtues of the Nirther thing is it's easy to remember - to start going into associations with a lady whose father was a under fed investigation and who fled to hawaii where he came into contact with someone else identified as one of Obama's mentors and friends. Well, because it's reality, it's complicated, and complicated stories are unsatisfying for the sorts of purposes to which a simple, direct thing like Nirtherism is directed.

354 albusteve  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:35:03pm

re: #339 tradewind

Who care who wrote the book, but there are some fascinating connections between Obama's most trusted advisor in the WH, Valerie Jarrett, and Ayers, going all the way back to her mother and his (Ayers') father. Valerie's father Vernon Jarrett skipped to Hawaii under federal investigation in the fifties, where he became close to Franklin Marshall Davis, Obama's mentor who brought him to Chicago. I'm really amazed that the right wing blogs aren't going bananas over this one.

it's been said, right here, that inquiring into BO's university life is nothing but pure racism...imagine wondering about anything else in his suspicious life

355 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:35:05pm

re: #349 Occasional Reader

Look, we should stop this bickering, and talk about the political issues of the day. Such as the proposed "capon trade" system.


/hat tip: buzz

You don't have the b*lls to get into that!

356 Ojoe  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:35:57pm

re: #353 Guanxi88

under fed investigation

Due to tiny breakfasts.

357 Occasional Reader  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:36:03pm

re: #352 Mich-again

Its a Cardinal sin to derail a thread with puns!

I just have to hawk my viewpoint. I can't help it.

358 Guanxi88  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:36:26pm

re: #354 albusteve

it's been said, right here, that inquiring into BO's university life is nothing but pure racism...imagine wondering about anything else in his suspicious life

His time in uni is a complete cipher. We know what he has told us, and that's ain't much, and not much else besides. it's always bothered me about him that so little of his known biography can be sourced only to him.

359 MandyManners  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:36:37pm

re: #339 tradewind

Who care who wrote the book, but there are some fascinating connections between Obama's most trusted advisor in the WH, Valerie Jarrett, and Ayers, going all the way back to her mother and his (Ayers') father. Valerie's father Vernon Jarrett skipped to Hawaii under federal investigation in the fifties, where he became close to Franklin Marshall Davis, Obama's mentor who brought him to Chicago. I'm really amazed that the right wing blogs aren't going bananas over this one.

Link?

360 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:37:06pm

re: #51 mj

Anyone know the origin of the term "moronic convergence" ?

My recollection, or at least the first time I remember seeing it, was in the American Spectator magazine which I was then had a subscription to in 1987 in a column by Robert Emmett Tyrrell, Jr. Tyrell was making fun of a group of new age crazies who believed in something called "Harmonic Convergence."

Anyone know of an earlier use?

I think it's from the Harmonic Convergence. Late eighties sounds right. It was one of these Maya calendar things.

My high school friends and I planned to someday have a rock-country band called the 'Harmonica Virgins'.

361 tradewind  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:37:07pm

re: #340 pre-Boomer Marine brat

He's not old enough, I don't think, to have been active in that. But there's no denying that the person he calls the most influential man in his life, Franklin Marshall Davis, was a member of the American communist party , which is a little freakish. Davis later registered as a Democrat. **
** like so many others who saw the light///

362 MandyManners  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:37:33pm

re: #343 tradewind

Oh, there are. ... praising him as the ' alpha and omega' . You haven't seen that one?

Wasn't that a club?

363 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:37:48pm

re: #357 Occasional Reader

I just have to hawk my viewpoint. I can't help it.

Granted.

And LGF is founded upon the principle of eagle-ity.

364 HelloDare  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:38:36pm

re: #334 albusteve

few people care anyway...he would just say something like "my association with Bill Ayres is not an association with Bill Ayres"

Yeah, now.

But when the press was literally going through Palin's garbage, only Stanley Kurtz was investigating Obama's ties with Ayers through the Annenberg Challenge documents. He proved that Obama was lying about his "casual" relationship, or whatever Obama called it.

This was before the election. The press chose to ignore it.

If Palin had headed up a charity that funded over, what, 120 million dollars to Chicago schools, you can bet the press would have looked into it.

365 Occasional Reader  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:38:40pm

re: #363 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Granted.

And LGF is founded upon the principle of eagle-ity.

Some posters are opposed to that, but I won't say who. I'm no stool pigeon.

366 2senseplain  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:39:12pm

re: #315 pre-Boomer Marine brat

I see the Description Box okay but no "four thingies" under it.

367 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:39:25pm

re: #361 tradewind

He's not old enough, I don't think, to have been active in that. But there's no denying that the person he calls the most influential man in his life, Franklin Marshall Davis, was a member of the American communist party , which is a little freakish. Davis later registered as a Democrat. **
** like so many others who saw the light///

See Zombietime on the subject. The last elements of the WU were active in the NYC area at that time.

368 Guanxi88  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:39:29pm

re: #359 MandyManners

Link?

Well, it's from Horowitz' site, but not written by him. Sometimes he's got good stuff, sometimes he posts stuff written out where the buses don't run.

369 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:40:24pm

re: #365 Occasional Reader

Some posters are opposed to that, but I won't say who. I'm no stool pigeon.

And personally, I don't give a flock.

370 albusteve  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:40:35pm

re: #364 HelloDare

Yeah, now.

But when the press was literally going through Palin's garbage, only Stanley Kurtz was investigating Obama's ties with Ayers through the Annenberg Challenge documents. He proved that Obama was lying about his "casual" relationship, or whatever Obama called it.

This was before the election. The press chose to ignore it.

If Palin had headed up a charity that funded over, what, 120 million dollars to Chicago schools, you can bet the press would have looked into it.

the MSM cannot be trusted, plain and simple

371 Occasional Reader  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:40:48pm

re: #367 pre-Boomer Marine brat

See Zombietime on the subject. The last elements of the WU were active in the NYC area at that time.

Speaking of zombie... when was the last time he/she/it/they posted here? I haven't seen him/her/it/them in a while.

372 MandyManners  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:41:17pm

re: #361 tradewind

He's not old enough, I don't think, to have been active in that. But there's no denying that the person he calls the most influential man in his life, Franklin Marshall Davis, was a member of the American communist party , which is a little freakish. Davis later registered as a Democrat. **
** like so many others who saw the light///

Not I. I became a Republican.

373 tradewind  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:41:21pm

re: #359 MandyManners
(PIMF, can't believe I typed ' Who care about his book'... obviously meant 'cares')...
Oh, lawsy. There are so many...I'll just give you the Google page, because I don't know much about the ones that are blogs, or their pedigrees. The facts above, re Jarrett, though, are pretty searchable. I think there are a lot of details that would be subject to opinion.
[Link: www.google.com...]

374 tradewind  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:42:32pm

re: #372 MandyManners

Wow, you were a commie?
:)

375 Occasional Reader  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:43:25pm

Later.

376 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:43:51pm

re: #366 2senseplain

I see the Description Box okay but no "four thingies" under it.

Uh oh! Maybe something went wrong, and doing a page Refresh will solve it.

Charles, 2senseplain can't see the "Choose Category" menu, Submit box, et cetera in the spin-off link composition view.

377 MandyManners  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:44:05pm

re: #374 tradewind

Wow, you were a commie?
:)

Yep. A member of CPUSA. I voted Gus Hall/Angela Davis in my first presidential election.

378 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:44:33pm

re: #85 Throbert McGee


One thing that I'm not sure you're 100% correct about, however -- is the driving force really anti-black racism, or is this more about white people getting into a victimhood frenzy over so-called "reverse racism," because they perceive Obama as an unqualified beneficiary of Affirmative Action?

That's some frenzy. Affirmative action may give you an edge getting into a good college, but it does nothing to get you elected president.

379 tradewind  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:44:51pm

re: #370 albusteve

Bet there won't be much if anything said re this Ayers thing. It was laughed at during the campaign when there was a real reason to look into it, and that horse has left the barn. Now that he's President, I don't even care so much, except that those in Jarrett's posse should be subject to scrutiny whenever she brings one of them into the fold.
Just saying.

380 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:44:52pm

re: #371 Occasional Reader

Speaking of zombie... when was the last time he/she/it/they posted here? I haven't seen him/her/it/them in a while.

Yeah. I've noticed that too.

381 Killgore Trout  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:45:11pm

Bachmann in St. Louis: Defund the Left, Beware One-World Currency

She got a second introduction from Dick Bott, a conservative radio host who briefly broke down talking about Bachmann’s hospitality to foster children.

Taking the stage, Bachmann thanked Schlafly, calling her an inspiration as a mother who transitioned into conservative politics, and said she considered the conference “a farewell party for ACORN!” The community organization group, she said, was the first, not the last, weak link in the liberal establishment.

“Defunding the left is going to be so easy,” said Bachmann, “and it’s going to solve so many of our problems.” She praised James O’Keefe III and Hannah Giles, the people behind the ACORN sting. “Hannah and James used Saul Alinsky’s ‘Rules for Radicals’ — that’s the community organizer’s bible — against ACORN! Brilliant!”

Bachmann touched on the priorities of Republicans if they retook Congress in 2010, to “pass repealer bill after repealer bill,” to prevent the creation of a one-world currency,...

I caught up to her as she headed outside and asked if she had any response to the murder of a Kentucky census worker, having noticed that the Census, a constant target for Bachmann, did not figure into her speech. Bachmann recoiled a little at the question and turned to enter her limo.

“Thank you so much!” she said.

382 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:46:07pm

re: #88 FrogMarch

Indeed.
Huffpo is really stretching it. The left seem desperate to find anything – because they understand what some on their side are doing is creepy. These are very different scenarios. The Katrina kids were singing about surviving a horrible natural event; An event that was, in fact, politicized by the left for years. “Bush hates black people” "Bush and Cheney caused the hurricane" "Bush and Cheney screwed up , but anyone with a (D) behind their name in a position of power in LA got a free pass..."

The songs coming out now are not in any response to any horrible event – they are songs written by teacher(s) who are known backers and financial supporters of Barack Obama.

So it's all right to sing songs of praise to the president only if there's been a huge natural disaster during his administration that directly affected you? Gotcha.

/

383 Flyers1974  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:46:35pm

re: #348 SanFranciscoZionist

I keep trying to figure that one out in my own mind. Maybe if Hillary had won, they'd be resurrecting those Vince Foster rumors and demanding that she be tried for murder.

But I think there's an excellent chance that this is the most recent dying gasp of the unique thing that is American racism. (PLease note, that's not to say other countries don't have racism, or that theirs isn't as bad, just that ours grows out of special set of historical circumstances not exactly replicated elsewhere.)

I think you got the key word "unique." Notwithstanding the conservative meltdown we're witnessing, I'd argue that the US today, is one of the least racist countries.

384 tradewind  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:46:38pm

re: #381 Killgore Trout

You would have to hear the inflection. One would hope she would be saying it in a nasty tone, such as ' Thank you SO much (not).
That is, if the story is true. I can't believe people are this ugly for real.

385 Throbert McGee  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:46:49pm

re: #296 lostlakehiker

Imagine that Colin Powell were president. Now try to imagine birther conspiracy theories. It wouldn't happen.

It isn't that Obama is half black. He is, after all, half Kansas white-bread white, if you keep track. It's that he grew up in an alien milieu, and the people caught up in this nonsense feel that whether or not he was born in Hawaii, his formative experiences include a lot from those alien settings. From that perspective, the birth certificate can be seen as accurate but nevertheless fake. So then people slide from that into believing, or making themselves believe, that even its de-jure accuracy must somehow be fake.

This sort of way of looking at things has to be a lot more seductive to somebody who's never been abroad. If you've seen more of the world, you realize that having a mother from Kansas, and spending some of your childhood years in Hawaii, will be sufficient to make you an American in fact as well as in law.

You just bowled 300, lostlakehiker. That's not just Sexcellent®, it's downright HairyPecs-xellent®!

Sexcellent® and HairyPecs-xellent® are trademarks of T.H.Roberts Industrial Consortium, all rights reserved.

386 tradewind  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:47:18pm

re: #382 SanFranciscoZionist

Better make that ' song' sung singular. I doubt there were many instances to be found.

387 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:47:29pm

re: #89 tradewind

I doubt it. The suspicion surrounding Obama's birthplace comes largely, if inappropriately, from the fact that his father was a Kenyan here on a student visa, and that his mother was so very young that they promote the story that she was traveling around with him. McCain's parents were uncontestedly American born.

But Obama's mother was also uncontestedly American born. So where he was born is entirely irrelevent.

Also, McCain wasn't born in the country! (GASP!)

388 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:48:09pm

re: #386 tradewind

Better make that ' song' sung singular. I doubt there were many instances to be found.

Probably not. It's still goopy. As are the praises to Obama.

389 Claire  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:48:20pm

I read some of that Cahill stuff before the election. I thought the forensic analysis was kinda fun, like a Dan Brown novel following clues. As far as it being news that Obama could've needed help of some sort (literary or chemical) with the writing after being blocked for 2 years wasn't exactly earth-shattering. Wouldn't be surprised that the meme sticks around for a while just based on the woo-woo intrigue factor.

390 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:48:32pm

re: #377 MandyManners

Yep. A member of CPUSA. I voted Gus Hall/Angela Davis in my first presidential election.

GRAMSCIAN HISTORICAL ARTIFACT OF THE LIZARDIM

/heh

391 Killgore Trout  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:48:50pm

re: #384 tradewind

I think the Thank You was just a kiss off like "I'm outta here"

392 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:49:57pm

re: #100 tradewind

Teachers' political preferences, whether they are conservative or ' progressive' in tone, have no place in the classroom. Especially in elementary and junior high/high school classes, their political affiliation should not be a matter of record or even readily discernible.

The US History teacher I work with tells her students that if she does her job right, they will never know what her voting affiliations are.

393 Guanxi88  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:50:35pm

re: #391 Killgore Trout

I think the Thank You was just a kiss off like "I'm outta here"

Like our esteemed Governor Perry "Adios, mo'fos"

394 2senseplain  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:50:48pm

re: #376 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Page Refresh didn't help. Thanks for trying.

395 Flyers1974  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:51:42pm

re: #378 SanFranciscoZionist

That's some frenzy. Affirmative action may give you an edge getting into a good college, but it does nothing to get you elected president.

I'd say the conservatives are frenzied because their preferred candidate lost (or more accurately, never ran.) We saw a lot of the same insanity during the Clinton years, and the internet wasn't yet around as it is today. Obama's race has aggravated the frenzy. But it would still exist regardless of Obama.

396 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:52:06pm

re: #394 2senseplain

Page Refresh didn't help. Thanks for trying.

I "Reported" my 376 to Charles.
Maybe there's something going on, and he'll notice it.

397 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:54:39pm

When I saw the title of this article, I thought of one of those slightly weird documentary series they sometimes show on TV, in the vein of "When Animals Attack" or something. "Nirthers on Television, Part II: Revenge of the Stupid".

398 tradewind  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:54:48pm

re: #381 Killgore Trout

KT, your Washington Independent source is ...not so much... some of the funders of that site include
the Streisand Foundation, The Rockefeller Foundation, the Boulder Community Fund, the Open Society Institute, the Bohemian Fund, the Lotus Society Fund... I could go on.

399 FrogMarch  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:55:14pm

re: #382 SanFranciscoZionist

So it's all right to sing songs of praise to the president only if there's been a huge natural disaster during his administration that directly affected you? Gotcha.

/

Frankly, I'm not really comfortable with children singing songs in praise of any president. But if you notice the song about Katrina, the song is not just a pro-Bush song. There are others mentioned in the song besides Bush.

Our country's stood beside us People have sent us aid. Katrina could not stop us, our hopes will never fade. Congress, Bush and FEMA People across our land Together have come to rebuild us and we join them hand-in-hand!


oh noes - they are singing about the strength of their country.

400 tradewind  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:55:49pm

re: #391 Killgore Trout
Probably true.
You can't blame her for not wanting to answer questions, since it wouldn't be pretty.

401 Throbert McGee  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:56:43pm

re: #378 SanFranciscoZionist

That's some frenzy. Affirmative action may give you an edge getting into a good college, but it does nothing to get you elected president.

I probably should've put scare quotes around "Affirmative Action", because I was also including white perceptions that Obama got unearned adoration from the media (e.g.) because of his dark skin. In other words, not just Affirmative Action in the literal policy sense but also social attitudes seen as analogous to AA.

402 Killgore Trout  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:56:53pm

re: #398 tradewind

I see no reason to doubt his account of the event. There's video online if you want to watch it.

403 Ian MacGregor  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:57:03pm

re: #343 tradewind

No I have not, and yes the inference to Christ is bothersome.

404 HelloDare  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:57:20pm

re: #389 Claire

I read some of that Cahill stuff before the election. I thought the forensic analysis was kinda fun, like a Dan Brown novel following clues. As far as it being news that Obama could've needed help of some sort (literary or chemical) with the writing after being blocked for 2 years wasn't exactly earth-shattering. Wouldn't be surprised that the meme sticks around for a while just based on the woo-woo intrigue factor.

Stylistically, his two books do seem to come from two minds. I've read part of each. Try suggesting to an Obama admirer that he may have had some help writing his books, then step back.

Obviously, Palin will to have somebody write her book for her./

Teasing a segment on the book during his show “Hardball,” Matthews said: “If she can read, if she can write, she’ll make some money.”

Matthews repeated his suggestion that Palin could not write the book later in the show. “The question is who actually will write the Palin book,” he said. “The only politician I know who can write is Barack Obama.”


405 albusteve  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:58:06pm

re: #395 Flyers1974

I'd say the conservatives are frenzied because their preferred candidate lost (or more accurately, never ran.) We saw a lot of the same insanity during the Clinton years, and the internet wasn't yet around as it is today. Obama's race has aggravated the frenzy. But it would still exist regardless of Obama.

his relationship with Rev Wright has aggravated the frenzie too...an extraordinary pal for a post racial POTUS eh?

406 wrenchwench  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:58:14pm

re: #394 2senseplain

Page Refresh didn't help. Thanks for trying.

If you are using the submission form that appears under the "Show/Hide Top Rated Links," the category thingy is above the "link address" line. The first item in the list is "Top Rated Links." You can't use that one, nor the "most recent" "most commented" & "most clicked" options. The next choice is "Art."

407 Guanxi88  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 12:59:03pm

re: #404 HelloDare

I'd hope like hell that anyone in a leadership position would have help on his or her memoirs or whatever the hell they call these works these days; I'd hate to think they were wasting time on writing encomiastic works to their own greatness before they'd finished their jobs.

408 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 1:00:04pm

re: #141 JamesTKirk

Don't ever act like you don't recognize her. She'll slug you.

That poor security guy.

409 wrenchwench  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 1:00:44pm

re: #407 Guanxi88

I'd hope like hell that anyone in a leadership position would have help on his or her memoirs or whatever the hell they call these works these days; I'd hate to think they were wasting time on writing encomiastic works to their own greatness before they'd finished their jobs.

I liked the term "autohagiography." I forget which lizard invented or introduced it.

410 Guanxi88  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 1:01:40pm

re: #409 wrenchwench

I liked the term "autohagiography." I forget which lizard invented or introduced it.

I like it, too. In fact, I'm just gonna go ahead and claim credit for it. In my memoirs, due out next month, and then in quarterly installments for the rest of my life.

411 Guanxi88  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 1:02:46pm

re: #410 Guanxi88

I like it, too. In fact, I'm just gonna go ahead and claim credit for it. In my memoirs, due out next month, and then in quarterly installments for the rest of my life.

Working title: "A Little Slice of Just About Adequate"

412 Flyers1974  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 1:04:23pm

re: #404 HelloDare

Stylistically, his two books do seem to come from two minds. I've read part of each. Try suggesting to an Obama admirer that he may have had some help writing his books, then step back.

Speaking for myself, I've said here at LGF, that I've never read his books. First because I doubt he wrote them himself, and second, even if he did, why would I care what a POTUS candidate says in his own book? Shouldn't I assume that when a POTUS candidate "writes" a book about himself, it's going to be propaganda? I think Obama's campaign propaganda (the books, Hope/Change, etc...) has completely baffled the conservatives. Of course its propaganda. That's what political campaigns do.

413 Ian MacGregor  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 1:04:40pm

re: #49 Killgore Trout

Wherever Obama goes he is met with a fanfare. I googled the lyrics

Hail to the Chief we have chosen for the nation,
Hail to the Chief! We salute him, one and all.
Hail to the Chief, as we pledge cooperation
In proud fulfillment of a great, noble call.
Yours is the aim to make this grand country grander,
This you will do, that's our strong, firm belief.
Hail to the one we selected as commander,
Hail to the President! Hail to the Chief!
(Albert Gamse)

Wow, find me another president who got such treatment. "We salute him one and all". When will the madness stop

414 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 1:04:41pm

re: #406 wrenchwench

If you are using the submission form that appears under the "Show/Hide Top Rated Links," the category thingy is above the "link address" line. The first item in the list is "Top Rated Links." You can't use that one, nor the "most recent" "most commented" & "most clicked" options. The next choice is "Art."

Damn! THAT's what's happening. I've never tried to submit a link there.

415 Flyers1974  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 1:05:21pm

re: #405 albusteve

his relationship with Rev Wright has aggravated the frenzie too...an extraordinary pal for a post racial POTUS eh?

Only if you bought "post-racial" to begin with.

416 wrenchwench  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 1:06:05pm

re: #414 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Damn! THAT's what's happening. I've never tried to submit a link there.

And I've never used the other way!

417 Guanxi88  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 1:06:07pm

re: #413 Ian MacGregor

Wherever Obama goes he is met with a fanfare. I googled the lyrics

Hail to the Chief we have chosen for the nation,
Hail to the Chief! We salute him, one and all.
Hail to the Chief, as we pledge cooperation
In proud fulfillment of a great, noble call.
Yours is the aim to make this grand country grander,
This you will do, that's our strong, firm belief.
Hail to the one we selected as commander,
Hail to the President! Hail to the Chief!
(Albert Gamse)

Wow, find me another president who got such treatment. "We salute him one and all". When will the madness stop

Every President since the song was written. It's the standard fanfare for the POTUS; comes with the job, like the Secret Service detail and the letterhead.

418 sagehen  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 1:06:13pm

re: #329 SanFranciscoZionist

It makes no sense. There is evidence that Obama was born in the United States. There is no evidence that he was born elsewhere. This is the world's biggest waste of everyone's time.


I saw one poll that 6% of South Carolina Republicans weren't convinced Hawaii was part of the United States. (I suppose these would be the US-Americans who don't have maps).

Myself, I'm just amused that people are paying good money to deliberately have their names and addresses and social security numbers sent to the Justice Department and their various state AG's, on a list of "people who question the legitimacy of the government".

419 debutaunt  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 1:06:35pm

re: #411 Guanxi88

Working title: "A Little Slice of Just About Adequate"

What's yer pen name?

420 tradewind  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 1:06:46pm

re: #403 Ian MacGregor
It's been posted on LGF so many times I won't belabor the point by doing it again, but you can find it on YouTube, under ' Obama Youth'

... a video of the pupils, who are thought to be aged 14 and 15, emerged on YouTube.
The video, which was titled "Obama Youth – Junior Fraternity Regiment", has since been removed, but copies have been re-posted. It shows 10 teenage boys marching into a classroom, making gestures with their arms and reciting "alpha, omega".
After coming to a halt, each in turn shouts a personal mantra associating their personal goals with Mr Obama.


[Link: www.telegraph.co.uk...]

421 Guanxi88  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 1:07:46pm

re: #419 debutaunt

What's yer pen name?

"His Serene Majesty, Emperor Leo Atreides, Master of the Seas, Lord of the Land, Commander of the Air" Modest, you know?

422 HelloDare  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 1:07:51pm

re: #407 Guanxi88

I'd hope like hell that anyone in a leadership position would have help on his or her memoirs or whatever the hell they call these works these days; I'd hate to think they were wasting time on writing encomiastic works to their own greatness before they'd finished their jobs.

I agree.

From Wikipedia:
Dreams from My Father... was first published in 1995 after Obama was elected the first African-American president of the Harvard Law Review, but before his political career began. The book was re-released in 2004 following Obama's keynote address at the 2004 Democratic National Convention (DNC); the 2004 edition includes a new introduction by Obama, then a Senator-elect, as well as his DNC keynote address.

423 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 1:09:02pm

re: #394 2senseplain

Page Refresh didn't help. Thanks for trying.

wrenchwench just put me onto what's probably going on.

Bail out of however you're trying to submit a link.

Look below Charles' actual post -- between it and the green-background "rules" box.

On the right is a link with an arrow, the words "spinoff links" and a number inside parens. CLICK that, and submit your link via the form at the end of the links you see there. My previous instructions relate to THAT section.

424 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 1:09:20pm

re: #403 Ian MacGregor

No I have not, and yes the inference to Christ is bothersome.

The chant was "Omega, Alpha", signifying an ending, and a beginning. Not a comparison to any deity.

425 KingKenrod  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 1:10:39pm

NYTimes is reporting that Obama will demand that Iran open nuclear sites to inspection and turn over program details within 3 months.

(registered link)
[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

"Or what?" is what I want to know.

426 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 1:10:58pm

re: #170 Mich-again

A quick litmus test is to ask them what they would think of their child marrying a person of a different race.

But still, they may not consider themselves racists if they say they wouldn't want it. I had a terrifyingly funny online conversation once with a man who insisted that it was all about language groups and culture, and that "Indo-Europeans" should marry "Indo-Europeans". No hate involved, mind you, just a fact of life.

He determined that I was a 'mongrel', and hoped he was not hurting my feelings by saying so. (I assured him I felt fine.)

I then asked him to choose between his son bringing home a Pakistani girl (Indo-European Urdu) and a Finnish girl (Finno-Ugrian Finnish). He never answered.

427 tradewind  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 1:11:12pm

Ruh Roh..
Looks like when it comes to closing Gitmo, No They Can't.
Stand by for Democrat heads exploding in 5...4...3..?
Somehow I bet not.

428 Randall Gross  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 1:11:19pm

re: #425 KingKenrod

NYTimes is reporting that Obama will demand that Iran open nuclear sites to inspection and turn over program details within 3 months.

(registered link)
[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

"Or what?" is what I want to know.

Or he shall have to take their name down again...

429 Guanxi88  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 1:11:20pm

re: #424 Slumbering Behemoth

The chant was "Omega, Alpha", signifying an ending, and a beginning. Not a comparison to any deity.

Still, odd that they'd elect to use that particular trope to signify anything associated with the man, given the strong theological "weight" of the use of those two characters in close association in the description of a person.

430 wrenchwench  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 1:11:34pm

re: #423 pre-Boomer Marine brat

wrenchwench just put me onto what's probably going on.

Bail out of however you're trying to submit a link.

Look below Charles' actual post -- between it and the green-background "rules" box.

On the right is a link with an arrow, the words "spinoff links" and a number inside parens. CLICK that, and submit your link via the form at the end of the links you see there. My previous instructions relate to THAT section.

Oh, look! There's a link submitted by 2senseplain" in the "history" category!

431 MandyManners  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 1:11:59pm

re: #425 KingKenrod

NYTimes is reporting that Obama will demand that Iran open nuclear sites to inspection and turn over program details within 3 months.

(registered link)
[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

"Or what?" is what I want to know.

Is that long enough to hide whatever they don't want to be seen/known?

432 tradewind  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 1:12:03pm

re: #428 Thanos

Or it's the dreaded Strongly Worded Sanctions.

433 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 1:12:39pm

re: #416 wrenchwench

And I've never used the other way!

I bet you thought I was absolutely barking.
/like I did of you ... UNTIL I went up and investigated ... LOL!

434 Guanxi88  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 1:12:45pm

re: #426 SanFranciscoZionist

But still, they may not consider themselves racists if they say they wouldn't want it. I had a terrifyingly funny online conversation once with a man who insisted that it was all about language groups and culture, and that "Indo-Europeans" should marry "Indo-Europeans". No hate involved, mind you, just a fact of life.

He determined that I was a 'mongrel', and hoped he was not hurting my feelings by saying so. (I assured him I felt fine.)

I then asked him to choose between his son bringing home a Pakistani girl (Indo-European Urdu) and a Finnish girl (Finno-Ugrian Finnish). He never answered.

I'd go with the Pakistani girl; I know something of their cuisine; Finns, I know nothing about, but suspect that their diet would be fairly bland and weird in comparison.

435 tradewind  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 1:13:07pm

re: #431 MandyManners

You just have to shake your head at the way Iran lied about the second site and then gave it up so quickly at the maximum publicity moment, that UN thing.
/Caught us, dammit!/

436 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 1:13:12pm

re: #429 Guanxi88

They're Greek letters. Frat type groups traditionally use Greek letters.

437 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 1:13:55pm

re: #180 Occasional Reader

Hmm.

On this one, I think the ADL jumped the gun. I'd read the "money-lenders" line as a reference to the current financial world, not some sort of crypto-anti-Semitism.

I think it's an innocent error, but one that comes out of a bad history. I wouldn't call Trudeau an anti-Semite, but the ADL needed to tell him that one was off.

438 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 1:14:11pm

re: #430 wrenchwench

Oh, look! There's a link submitted by 2senseplain" in the "history" category!

WOOPIE!

439 albusteve  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 1:14:15pm

re: #428 Thanos

Or he shall have to take their name down again...

he'll let Sarkozy and Putin figure out the next move for him

440 Killgore Trout  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 1:14:18pm

re: #413 Ian MacGregor

Youtube Video
441 Kosh's Shadow  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 1:14:19pm

re: #425 KingKenrod

NYTimes is reporting that Obama will demand that Iran open nuclear sites to inspection and turn over program details within 3 months.

(registered link)
[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

"Or what?" is what I want to know.

or:

increased pressure and isolation, and deny opportunity to their own people


according to the Jerusalem Post.

However, the administration did not rule out military action.
Still, I doubt the ayatollahs are quaking in their sandals, unless it is with laughter.

442 mich-again  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 1:14:54pm

re: #424 Slumbering Behemoth

The chant was "Omega, Alpha", signifying an ending, and a beginning. Not a comparison to any deity.

I'm not sure how you know what they meant or didn't mean by that but Revelation1:8 uses the same words.

"I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty."
443 HelloDare  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 1:15:04pm

There was controversy over the authorship of JFK's book Profiles in Courage that was published in 1957. It won the Pulitzer Prize.

444 Kosh's Shadow  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 1:15:09pm

re: #432 tradewind

Or it's the dreaded Strongly Worded Sanctions.

Word strongly but carry a weak piece of paper.

445 Racer X  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 1:15:12pm

Do not obsfucate matters with science or other baloney sandwiches
Your opinions are not relevant to the issue of your mental capacity
But rather are dead horses which are not N-O-T to be flogged
My purpose here is to clearly demonstrate to all concerned that you are indeed insane
So that all doctors, policemen, and other persons of authority
will be shown to their professional satisfaction the truth of my statements

Please do not change color while I am talking to you

Youtube Video
446 KingKenrod  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 1:15:31pm

re: #436 Slumbering Behemoth

They're Greek letters. Frat type groups traditionally use Greek letters.

Apologies if I missed context somewhere, but it's a comparison to Christ who said "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last." in Revelations 22:13. It's a direct comparison to Christ.

[Link: kingjbible.com...]

447 wrenchwench  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 1:15:58pm

re: #438 pre-Boomer Marine brat

WOOPIE!

I just clicked on the link and got "404 Not Found."

Back to the drawing board.

448 2senseplain  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 1:16:21pm

re: #406 wrenchwench

Yesh! It worked. Thanks Wrench.

449 tradewind  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 1:16:35pm

re: #436 Slumbering Behemoth

It was a fraternity initiation. Yeah, that's it!
Who explained the reference? The quick-thinking video producer?
///

450 Ian MacGregor  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 1:17:05pm

re: #417 Guanxi88

Thank you, Da ya think I might have been jokin?

451 2senseplain  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 1:17:17pm

re: #438 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Whoopie, indeed. And thanks for your help.

452 Guanxi88  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 1:17:36pm

re: #436 Slumbering Behemoth

They're Greek letters. Frat type groups traditionally use Greek letters.

Yes, I'm aware of their linguistic origins. I don't think anyone would suspect them to be anything but. I'd point out, invoking the example of the Greek fraternity system, that the frat Alpha Chi Omega is, of course, an obvious contraction of alpha kai omega, "alpha and omega," and is an explicitly Christian fraternity. It should strike no one as peculiar that this group would have chosen such a designation for itself; in the Western cultural context, these characters carry a theological weight, as noted above.

The choice was clumsy and ill-advised in the case of the student step-group, but it was not accidental. Consider, further, that the sum total of most people's exposure to the Greek alphabet, outside of fraternity organizations, is to be found in the Greek New Testament, where these two characters, their order reversed, are tied to the figure of Jesus. Inverting their order was an odd choice, and could be motivated by a desire to avoid a direct and explicit quote from Scripture while still carrying some of the power of the words.

453 wrenchwench  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 1:18:17pm

re: #448 2senseplain

Yesh! It worked. Thanks Wrench.

Do it again! (bad linkie)

454 mich-again  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 1:18:30pm

re: #431 MandyManners

Is that long enough to hide whatever they don't want to be seen/known?

I can't see any reason to trust the Mullahs or their wee little spokesrat.

455 Gus  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 1:18:51pm

The putrid minds of the birthers. Here Bill Keller and "The Kreep" go on for several minutes attempting to be impartial and only in search of a birth certificate and then at the end Keller says something to the likes of "Obama, not born in Hawaii, not born in the United States" and so on. And the United States Justice Foundation calls itself a "conservative voice in the courts" and as usual wraps itself around the imagery of America's founding documents. These people have been drinking the Kool Aid since 1980.

456 Guanxi88  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 1:18:58pm

And on to a clean new thread!

457 albusteve  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 1:19:26pm

re: #444 Kosh's Shadow

Word strongly but carry a weak piece of paper.

Iran beat BO like a mule...he's got nothing, China will veto any sanctions and he will not defy his leftist minions...BO is stuck big time and he did it to himself

458 Throbert McGee  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 1:19:34pm

re: #426 SanFranciscoZionist

I then asked him to choose between his son bringing home a Pakistani girl (Indo-European Urdu) and a Finnish girl (Finno-Ugrian Finnish). He never answered.

Heh. Upding for knowing your language families.

459 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 1:21:18pm

re: #447 wrenchwench

I just clicked on the link and got "404 Not Found."

Back to the drawing board.

I see what it is!

2senseplain's link needs a "www" in it.

460 Boris Badenov  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 1:21:30pm

re: #413 Ian MacGregor

You never hear special Bill Clinton version? Natasha and I make up lyrics for it on vodka bender during Monica Lewinsky scandal while watching Beavis and Butthead:

The State of the Unit
The Presidential Unit
The State of the Unit
Is Firm, Erect and Hard
The State of the Unit
The Presidential Unit
Sexy WhiteHouse Interns
Make him squirt his cum a yard.

The State of the Unit
The Presidential Unit
It's standing straight and tall
Like the Washington Monument!
The State of the Unit
The Presidential Unit
We have got a horn-dog
For our President!

461 mich-again  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 1:21:40pm

Conan made fun of Obama's newly "discovered" Kenyan nirth certificate by zooming in on the official seal to show the Kenyan motto "Hakuna Matata". That was pretty funny.

462 theheat  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 1:21:54pm

re: #455 Gus 802

I know it isn't verified factual, but did you read some of the comments? Sounds like the makings of a bad Coen brothers movie. You can't make up shit this good... usually.

463 Flyers1974  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 1:22:35pm

re: #444 Kosh's Shadow

Word strongly but carry a weak piece of paper.

Other than those very few people here who've already stated that Obama should take military action against Iran, does anyone have any suggestions as to what he should do?

464 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 1:22:44pm

re: #253 Flyers1974

I read a book in which Claire Chennault used the term "white feather" to depict cowerdice. Never heard it anywhere else though. It may be an old-timre reference.

Girls used to give them to young men who wouldn't serve in WWI, as a reproach to their 'cowardice', IIRC.

465 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 1:23:00pm

re: #442 mich-again

They're Greek letters. What letters were used in that verse prior to it being translated into Greek?

466 tradewind  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 1:23:11pm

re: #460 Boris Badenov

Except, according to reports, it's not.
/Peyronie's. /

467 Guanxi88  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 1:24:11pm

re: #465 Slumbering Behemoth

They're Greek letters. What letters were used in that verse prior to it being translated into Greek?

Well, given that it was translated out of Greek into English, I'm going to guess Greek. Given that the author was a greek, and living in greek-speaking world, I'd say it's quite likely that it was greek.

468 Ian MacGregor  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 1:24:25pm

re: #429 Guanxi88

I was responding to

"praising him as the ' alpha and omega'"

Revelation 21:6

He said to me: "It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To him who is thirsty I will give to drink without cost from the spring of the water of life.

469 Buck  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 1:24:37pm

re: #425 KingKenrod

NYTimes is reporting that Obama will demand that Iran open nuclear sites to inspection and turn over program details within 3 months.

(registered link)
[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

"Or what?" is what I want to know.

In 3 months Iran could build a whole new underground building... right next to or even under the existing one. And stock it with a baby formula factory.

In 3 months they could completely change out the building and make it an Atomic / Nuclear college with 100 eager students...

In 3 months they could be finished the bomb, and have it in a container ship on the way to Egypt.

Fact is there is nothing anyone can do now... it is way too late.

470 tradewind  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 1:24:42pm

re: #463 Flyers1974
a) Lead, Follow, or get outta the way
b) Stand back, and admire the IDF as they take care of their own.

471 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 1:25:00pm

re: #459 pre-Boomer Marine brat

I see what it is!

2senseplain's link needs a "www" in it.

Charles,

Would you please be so kind as to add a "www." to 2senseplain's just-posted spinoff link, which is titled Leading Egyptian Daily 'Al-Ahram' Reports: Coins from Era of Biblical Joseph Found in Egypt

The correct URL (from going to MEMRI and tracking it down) is:
[Link: www.memri.org...]

472 cliffster  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 1:25:47pm

re: #465 Slumbering Behemoth

They're Greek letters. What letters were used in that verse prior to it being translated into Greek?

You and your questions. Stop asking these pesky questions.../

473 albusteve  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 1:25:54pm

re: #469 Buck

In 3 months Iran could build a whole new underground building... right next to or even under the existing one. And stock it with a baby formula factory.

In 3 months they could completely change out the building and make it an Atomic / Nuclear college with 100 eager students...

In 3 months they could be finished the bomb, and have it in a container ship on the way to Egypt.

Fact is there is nothing anyone can do now... it is way too late.

pretty much agree...BO is spent diplomatically

474 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 1:27:53pm

re: #446 KingKenrod

It was not. I watched the original video, which explained it quite well in the sidebar. Sadly, I cannot link for proof since the school pulled the original off the web shortly after it got noticed.

It was not some creepy "Obama as Christ" type of thing that people want to paint it as. You don't have to believe me, and since the original context is vapor, I guess I can't expect you to believe.

Oh well.

475 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 1:28:28pm

re: #471 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Charles,

Would you please be so kind as to add a "www." to 2senseplain's just-posted spinoff link, which is titled Leading Egyptian Daily 'Al-Ahram' Reports: Coins from Era of Biblical Joseph Found in Egypt

The correct URL (from going to MEMRI and tracking it down) is:
[Link: www.memri.org...]

Thank you, Charles!

476 Flyers1974  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 1:29:14pm

re: #470 tradewind

a) Lead, Follow, or get outta the way
b) Stand back, and admire the IDF as they take care of their own.

Lead in doing what? I've heard nothing but partisan criticism, i.e., give a speech, don't give a speech, etc..., but no one seems to have any specific suggestions as to what he should do. Other than those few who have clearly stated that Obama should use force.

477 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 1:29:36pm

re: #467 Guanxi88

So, are you saying that that book of the bible was originally written in Greek?

I have no idea, myself.

478 Flyers1974  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 1:31:17pm

re: #477 Slumbering Behemoth

So, are you saying that that book of the bible was originally written in Greek?

I have no idea, myself.

Aramaic I think.

479 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 1:31:23pm

Dammit, that MEMRI link STILL isn't working.
(but the URL I posted is good ... WTF!)

480 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 1:31:30pm

re: #413 Ian MacGregor

Wherever Obama goes he is met with a fanfare. I googled the lyrics

Hail to the Chief we have chosen for the nation,
Hail to the Chief! We salute him, one and all.
Hail to the Chief, as we pledge cooperation
In proud fulfillment of a great, noble call.
Yours is the aim to make this grand country grander,
This you will do, that's our strong, firm belief.
Hail to the one we selected as commander,
Hail to the President! Hail to the Chief!
(Albert Gamse)

Wow, find me another president who got such treatment. "We salute him one and all". When will the madness stop



Hail to the Chief, if you don't I'll have to kill you,
I am the Chief, so you'd better watch your step, you bastards.

481 Gus  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 1:31:48pm

re: #462 theheat

I know it isn't verified factual, but did you read some of the comments? Sounds like the makings of a bad Coen brothers movie. You can't make up shit this good... usually.

As in the long comment regarding Bill Keller. It looks plausible considering his current rhetoric. He's found a way to "cash in" on the birther lunacy now and found a wider audience. People will call and send him money the way they sent money to PTL during the 1980s. He spent 3 years in prison for insider trading found "the lord" and stuck the title "Reverend" in front of this name but is still engaging in fraud. We are one of the few developed countries in which a person like this can get away with this kind of fraud under the name of religious freedom.

Definitely a Coen brothers movie in the making. Either that or a Twilight Zone episode.

482 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 1:32:23pm

re: #479 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Dammit, that MEMRI link STILL isn't working.
(but the URL I posted is good ... WTF!)

SH*T ... NOW IT"S WORKING.

/software is weird!

483 albusteve  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 1:32:58pm

re: #476 Flyers1974

Lead in doing what? I've heard nothing but partisan criticism, i.e., give a speech, don't give a speech, etc..., but no one seems to have any specific suggestions as to what he should do. Other than those few who have clearly stated that Obama should use force.

sanction and support Israel, since he does not have the guts to take out the sites himself...he does not want to disappoint his base...death politics

484 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 1:34:52pm

re: #478 Flyers1974

Aramaic I think.

I wouldn't know. I think it strange, though, to apply such huge significance to two Greek letters.

If I were to say that "I am the 'A' and the 'Z'", I doubt it would create quite the stir that using two letters from the Greek alphabet would.

485 Throbert McGee  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 1:35:28pm

Regarding the inversion of Alpha and Omega, I would point out that the President's name rendered phonetically in Greek letters would be Ωβαμα -- so the chant can be interpreted as just the first and last letters of his surname, and if (say) Michael Steele had ended up being the first black President, perhaps they would've been chanting "Sigma" and "Lambda".

That said, they could've chanted "Beta Omega" as a Greekification of his first and last initials, and yet the didn't.

486 wrenchwench  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 1:35:51pm

re: #482 pre-Boomer Marine brat

SH*T ... NOW IT"S WORKING.

/software is weird!

The link above now works! And it has two updings!

487 Ian MacGregor  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 1:36:35pm

re: #478 Flyers1974

Greek was the Lingua Franca of the day. The authorship is usually accredited to John during his later years of exile on Patmos. It was written in Greek.

488 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 1:36:36pm

re: #477 Slumbering Behemoth

So, are you saying that that book of the bible was originally written in Greek?

I have no idea, myself.

The Gospels as we've received them are all in Greek, but there's been speculation on earlier versions recorded in Aramaic. Jesus, however, probably wouldn't have said "Alpha and Omega".

489 Throbert McGee  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 1:37:36pm

re: #477 Slumbering Behemoth

So, are you saying that that book of the bible was originally written in Greek?

I have no idea, myself.

The entirety of the Christian New Testament was originally written in Greek, not in Aramaic or Latin.

490 SanFranciscoZionist  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 1:37:46pm

re: #484 Slumbering Behemoth

I wouldn't know. I think it strange, though, to apply such huge significance to two Greek letters.

If I were to say that "I am the 'A' and the 'Z'", I doubt it would create quite the stir that using two letters from the Greek alphabet would.

The significance in Greek is 'the beginning and the end', which some translations use instead.

491 Kosh's Shadow  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 1:37:53pm

re: #463 Flyers1974

Other than those very few people here who've already stated that Obama should take military action against Iran, does anyone have any suggestions as to what he should do?

I'd propose and try to get the UN to pass something holding Iran responsible for use of a bomb. They would be required to keep their money in western institutions, and if they use a bomb, the target gets all their money, and all income until damages are paid. Same for countries that are supporting Iran.
And if they don't agree to these terms, we state that it is clear that Iran is pursuing weapons, because they'd have nothing to lose from this if they weren't.

And that the US will allow Israel or anyone else to sue for damages in the US. That should pass Congress easily. With the US authorized to intercept shipping to pay damages. Iran would also be liable for damages if they retaliate.

I doubt this would pass the UN, but it would tell the world that Russia and China are supporting a nuclear weapons program. The idea is to get them to agree to sanctions.

And make it quite clear that by not accepting these terms, Iran is admitting to a nuclear weapons program, and the US will support efforts to stop it.

492 Kosh's Shadow  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 1:38:52pm

re: #478 Flyers1974

Aramaic I think.

I think the New Testament was originally in Greek.

493 Flyers1974  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 1:39:01pm

re: #483 albusteve

sanction and support Israel, since he does not have the guts to take out the sites himself...he does not want to disappoint his base...death politics

I assume you mean taking out the sites is what he should do. Fair enough, I'm glad someone else has an actual plan. Although I will say, I've heard a few people here state that we do not have that ability, absent nuclear weapons. I have no idea if that is true. The people discussing this here during the June protests seemd very specific as to why that was impossible.

494 KingKenrod  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 1:39:52pm

re: #463 Flyers1974

Other than those very few people here who've already stated that Obama should take military action against Iran, does anyone have any suggestions as to what he should do?


A world-wide trade embargo. But we would have to bribe Russia and China to go along.

495 Guanxi88  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 1:40:43pm

re: #474 Slumbering Behemoth

It was not. I watched the original video, which explained it quite well in the sidebar. Sadly, I cannot link for proof since the school pulled the original off the web shortly after it got noticed.

It was not some creepy "Obama as Christ" type of thing that people want to paint it as. You don't have to believe me, and since the original context is vapor, I guess I can't expect you to believe.

Oh well.

That particular routine, as I recall it, did not carry theological overtones. The Omega and Alpha thing, however, has them; the reason for the inclusion in the routine is not obvious.

No, Obama as the Christ can be found far more clearly in many other hagiographic images of him circulating among the whacky and for their inspiration:

Image: obama070423_1_560.jpg

[Link: farm4.static.flickr.com...]

Image: Obama.jpg

[Link: farm3.static.flickr.com...]

[Link: farm4.static.flickr.com...]

[Link: farm3.static.flickr.com...]

[Link: www.slate.com...]re:

496 Throbert McGee  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 1:41:07pm

re: #489 Throbert McGee

The entirety of the Christian New Testament was originally written in Greek, not in Aramaic or Latin.

Per SFZ's comment right above mine, I should qualify this as: "the earliest known manuscripts of the NT are in Greek."

497 Guanxi88  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 1:42:24pm

re: #492 Kosh's Shadow

I think the New Testament was originally in Greek.

Yes, Revelation is written in Greek; very odd Greek, but Greek nonetheless.

498 Flyers1974  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 1:43:06pm

re: #491 Kosh's Shadow

I think Russia and China would rather Iran not have nukes, but value business more. I posted a few opinions today from the CFR, regarding among other things, why there is no hope with Russia. If you haven't seen them yourself, you may find them interesting. I'll repost them here.

499 Flyers1974  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 1:46:55pm

Various opinions regarding Iran from the Council on Foreign Relations.

RE: US Russia and what to do. "The US should stop emphasizing the need for Russian cooperation, focus on developing a common front with key allies in Europe and the Middle East, and continue offering to negotiate directly with Tehran. Though Russian help might be useful in the abstract, Washington will have to find ways to solve the Iranian nuclear problem on its own."

[Link: [Link: www.cfr.org...]...]

Re: Russia/China views on sanctions. "...at this time, Iran is in the throes of remarkable domestic political changes, the outcome of which is almost impossible to predict with accuracy. Because it can't put its house in order, that leads to a very difficult situation. The regime has become quite strident and less inclined to accept compromise solutions."

[Link: [Link: www.cfr.org...]...]

Re: A mistake for Obama to be up front about offering to talk to Iran? "It was the right thing to do right from the beginning and it reflects what you might call the spirit of Obama's Cairo speech.
But that offer was made before the Iranian election on June 12 and its subsequent fallout. If you look at the fissures that have opened up in the Iranian leadership over the past few weeks, it's really hard to say to whom you would talk to or what [you would talk] about."

[Link: [Link: www.cfr.org...]...]

500 Throbert McGee  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 1:47:30pm

re: #488 SanFranciscoZionist

The Gospels as we've received them are all in Greek, but there's been speculation on earlier versions recorded in Aramaic. Jesus, however, probably wouldn't have said "Alpha and Omega".

Well, he might have said it from time to time, given the importance of Greek as a lingua franca for communication between Aramaic-speaking Jews and Latin-speaking Romans. (If Pilate and Jesus were able to speak to each other directly without an interpreter, it most likely would've been in Greek.)

501 Kosh's Shadow  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 1:48:27pm

re: #500 Throbert McGee

Well, he might have said it from time to time, given the importance of Greek as a lingua franca for communication between Aramaic-speaking Jews and Latin-speaking Romans. (If Pilate and Jesus were able to speak to each other directly without an interpreter, it most likely would've been in Greek.)

I thought especially in the provinces, most Romans did speak Greek.

502 sagehen  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 1:55:29pm

re: #493 Flyers1974

I assume you mean taking out the sites is what he should do. Fair enough, I'm glad someone else has an actual plan. Although I will say, I've heard a few people here state that we do not have that ability, absent nuclear weapons. I have no idea if that is true. The people discussing this here during the June protests seemd very specific as to why that was impossible.


Because after what happened to the Iraqi facility that Israel took out, Iran spread out their program to a number of different facilities, all of them deep underground, and some of them under large population centers.

There's only 2 ways to bomb them out of existence:

1) infiltrate and set off explosives from the inside; or
2) reduce the entire country to molten glass.

503 Guanxi88  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 1:57:30pm

re: #502 sagehen

Because after what happened to the Iraqi facility that Israel took out, Iran spread out their program to a number of different facilities, all of them deep underground, and some of them under large population centers.

There's only 2 ways to bomb them out of existence:

1) infiltrate and set off explosives from the inside; or
2) reduce the entire country to molten glass.

I'd point out, too, that neither option is attractive. #1 is super-risky, and very uncertain of success, and option #2 is unthinkable on humanitarian grounds. Screw up option #1, and you can all but guarantee they'll use whatever they've got as soon as they've got it.

504 Irish Rose  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 1:59:27pm

For those who missed it on the early, I'm now the keeper of the LGF prayer list.

If you have any additions, feel free to email.

505 Kosh's Shadow  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 2:00:46pm

re: #503 Guanxi88

I'd point out, too, that neither option is attractive. #1 is super-risky, and very uncertain of success, and option #2 is unthinkable on humanitarian grounds. Screw up option #1, and you can all but guarantee they'll use whatever they've got as soon as they've got it.

If we do neither, a nuclear war against Iran becomes certain.
Maybe sufficient attack against the ayatollahs (even a conventional one) will allow Iranians to replace their government with a non-threatening one.

506 Flyers1974  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 2:03:42pm

re: #502 sagehen

Because after what happened to the Iraqi facility that Israel took out, Iran spread out their program to a number of different facilities, all of them deep underground, and some of them under large population centers.

There's only 2 ways to bomb them out of existence:

1) infiltrate and set off explosives from the inside; or
2) reduce the entire country to molten glass.

And option one seems like a very iffy propsition. If that's the case, it seems to me the total options are (1) Conventional military action including invasion to either overthrow or hold and destroy the sites; (2) Use nukes; (3) Political pressure/bargaining/talking - Which is what seems to be happening, at least for now.

507 Guanxi88  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 2:04:33pm

re: #505 Kosh's Shadow

If we do neither, a nuclear war against Iran becomes certain.
Maybe sufficient attack against the ayatollahs (even a conventional one) will allow Iranians to replace their government with a non-threatening one.

I'd say that the best tack would be to go after their command and control system and personnel. If you can cripple the operators of the system, then the resistance to attack of the machinery doesn't matter all that much. Cut off the head, and the body will die.

When the US went after Iraq in the 1st Gulf War, we decapitated their air-defense command and control capability, saving a lot of trouble and lives on all sides. Same idea here - go after the ones who can order the assembly or launch, or the means they use to transmit their orders, and you've defeated their capability.

508 sagehen  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 2:07:42pm

re: #495 Guanxi88


No, Obama as the Christ can be found far more clearly in many other hagiographic images of him circulating among the whacky and for their inspiration:

or this from Jon Stewart, on Obama's first day as senator:

Comedy Central Video
509 Kosh's Shadow  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 2:08:22pm

re: #507 Guanxi88

I'd say that the best tack would be to go after their command and control system and personnel. If you can cripple the operators of the system, then the resistance to attack of the machinery doesn't matter all that much. Cut off the head, and the body will die.

When the US went after Iraq in the 1st Gulf War, we decapitated their air-defense command and control capability, saving a lot of trouble and lives on all sides. Same idea here - go after the ones who can order the assembly or launch, or the means they use to transmit their orders, and you've defeated their capability.

Probably if the Revolutionary Guard were destroyed or decapitated, the rest of the military could take over, and there could be a new government. However, I think the ayatollahs have got to go somehow.

510 Guanxi88  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 2:09:28pm

re: #509 Kosh's Shadow

Probably if the Revolutionary Guard were destroyed or decapitated, the rest of the military could take over, and there could be a new government. However, I think the ayatollahs have got to go somehow.

If the Guard were destroyed or rendered ineffective, I imagine the people of Iran might well arrive at their own resolution of the mullah's role in their nation.

511 Flyers1974  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 2:12:44pm

re: #505 Kosh's Shadow

If we do neither, a nuclear war against Iran becomes certain.
Maybe sufficient attack against the ayatollahs (even a conventional one) will allow Iranians to replace their government with a non-threatening one.

Are you saying that you believe Iran's possession or imminent possession of nuclear weapons would be viewed as a cause of war by Israel? And that Israel would use nukes preemptively?

512 Flyers1974  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 2:14:49pm

re: #510 Guanxi88

If the Guard were destroyed or rendered ineffective, I imagine the people of Iran might well arrive at their own resolution of the mullah's role in their nation.

I agree, but the key is might. As it stands, I think more people than not want the mullahs gone. I guess the question is, would that hold true after such an attack?

513 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 2:19:20pm
Unbelievable.

Really? Is any of it really shocking anymore? Human history is the history of a terribly broken species that achieves great heights of nobility despite its nature, not because of it. Even the most half-assed study of history shows that periods of tranquil stability tend to be extremely brief and fleeting. Sadly, every society eventually collapses, and it always seems to involve zealots and rivers of blood (whether the zealots in question are justified or not is a separate question).

Look, we live in a world where a not-insignificant portion of the freest people history has ever known truly believes, on the basis of nothing but cynical propaganda, that they are living under some kind of totalitarian dictatorship.

Meanwhile, half the world really IS living under totalitarian dictatorship. I am pretty sure that there are lots of people in Burma who would gladly trade their current circumstance for a 5% higher income tax rate. There are probably lots of Liberian child-soldiers who, had they been given the choice, would rather live under the horrors of The Public Option rather than being forced to chop off limbs and massacre entire villages in order to avoid being killed by their captors who, incidentally, slaughtered their entire families in front of them.

This incessant blathering about birth certificates and "tyranny" disgusts me all the more given that just a couple of months ago, we saw what happens to people who loudly protest against actual, no-shit totalitarian governments. I don't disparage the right of the tea party crowd to rant and rave, but I wish they would keep it in perspective. People in Burma and Iran were killed in the streets. Others were hauled away to hell-hole prisons where they still sit (assuming they're still alive), and still more of them just disappeared. Teabaggers, that's what life under a real tyranny looks like. Lounging in the shade, holding misspelled signs accusing the POTUS of 'tyranny' looks just as inane now as it did when people on the other side of your fence did it three years ago.

Never mind. Fuck it. Resume yelling. Find the most proudly ignorant bunch of dipshits you possibly can and put them in the spotlight in 2012. When you get curb-stomped, feign shock & surprise and blame absolutely everything but yourselves. I'll see you in, oh, probably about 2024 if the teabaggers haven't burned it all down by then.

514 Kosh's Shadow  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 2:20:52pm

re: #511 Flyers1974

Are you saying that you believe Iran's possession or imminent possession of nuclear weapons would be viewed as a cause of war by Israel? And that Israel would use nukes preemptively?

Not necessarily, although Israel will suffer tragically if Iran gets nukes. I am saying that Iran will use nukes, and a nuclear retaliation will occur.
Israel should use conventional means to stop them before it gets that far.

515 Flyers1974  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 2:21:09pm

re: #511 Flyers1974

Are you saying that you believe Iran's possession or imminent possession of nuclear weapons would be viewed as a cause of war by Israel? And that Israel would use nukes preemptively?

If this is true and the mullahs knew this, i.e., it was communicated secretly as opposed to publicly and thus viewed as being intended for Israeli domestic consumption, that may be the answer.

516 Kosh's Shadow  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 2:21:48pm

re: #515 Flyers1974

If this is true and the mullahs knew this, i.e., it was communicated secretly as opposed to publicly and thus viewed as being intended for Israeli domestic consumption, that may be the answer.

I don't think the mullahs would care as long as the Mahdi came.

517 2senseplain  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 2:24:18pm

re: #486 wrenchwench

Phooey! Thanks again Wrench and Boomer. I guess I really do need to get those bifocals my doctors have been nagging me about.

518 tradewind  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 2:27:18pm

re: #506 Flyers1974

The best they could hope for now is to damage and severely slow down the program to buy much needed time in the hope that the rest of the world will cooperate and isolate them. But that is better than waiting to be pushed into the sea. I don't see that they have a peaceful option right now.

519 Flyers1974  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 2:27:42pm

re: #516 Kosh's Shadow

I don't think the mullahs would care as long as the Mahdi came.

I hear you on that. I'm not certain that they wouldn't rather grab as much money as possible and take asylum somewhere, but I see what you're saying.

520 2senseplain  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 2:30:45pm

re: #514 Kosh's Shadow

I suspect that my goverment will not use nukes(well, first) but whatever they do come up with with be devious, effective, deadly and probably not at all conventional--and will have the whole world screaming about what criminals we are while said government smiles maddeningly and admits to nothing--something like what happened to a certain Korean-manufactured Syrian site.

521 tradewind  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 2:31:21pm

re: #519 Flyers1974

The really hard core nutjobs are convinced that the Mahdi will not come until there is some chaos, like nuclear holocaust, on the earth, and so they have little to fear from it.
I don't understand how the young people of Iran, who are pretty hip, like Western dress, blog incessantly, and whose women generally don't like the whole burka thing, are letting themselves put up with the madness of the mullahs. They are in the majority, demographics -wise.

522 Flyers1974  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 2:39:30pm

re: #521 tradewind

The really hard core nutjobs are convinced that the Mahdi will not come until there is some chaos, like nuclear holocaust, on the earth, and so they have little to fear from it.
I don't understand how the young people of Iran, who are pretty hip, like Western dress, blog incessantly, and whose women generally don't like the whole burka thing, are letting themselves put up with the madness of the mullahs. They are in the majority, demographics -wise.

Lack of weapons and organization I'd say. Another question - why could the Iranians protest to the extent they did while the Iraqi's couldn't have? Of course some Iranian protesters were killed and jailed. But under Sadaam, they wouldn't have gotten halfway through the protest and all of them would have been killed. Is Iranian society less infiltrated with informers? Do the mullahs fear world opinion more than Sadaam? I haven't figured this one out yet.

523 Flyers1974  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 2:40:26pm

bbfm

524 Kosh's Shadow  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 2:45:22pm

re: #521 tradewind

The really hard core nutjobs are convinced that the Mahdi will not come until there is some chaos, like nuclear holocaust, on the earth, and so they have little to fear from it.
I don't understand how the young people of Iran, who are pretty hip, like Western dress, blog incessantly, and whose women generally don't like the whole burka thing, are letting themselves put up with the madness of the mullahs. They are in the majority, demographics -wise.

They aren't willingly, but the Iranian government is going quite far to keep them from doing anything about it.

525 [deleted]  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 2:55:41pm
526 sagehen  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 2:58:40pm

re: #522 Flyers1974

But under Sadaam, they wouldn't have gotten halfway through the protest and all of them would have been killed. Is Iranian society less infiltrated with informers? Do the mullahs fear world opinion more than Sadaam? I haven't figured this one out yet.

Not all of the mullahs are nutjobs; Rafsanjani's been maneuvering very effectively, some of the council (and Ayatollah Montazeri, who's a really big deal) have publicly spoken up for the protesters and for Moussavi... Ahmedinejad and Khameni are barely holding on (mostly because the basij is in their faction) but it won't last long.

We're impatient because we want it done yesterday, but regime change is coming.

527 2senseplain  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 3:01:19pm

re: #522 Flyers1974

No. But the Iranian protesters do a better job of using their cultural icons, symbols and mores against the mullacracy than average protesters in Islamic countries do(martyrdom, protests at funerals/memorial days, etc.). They don't dare trying to be totally ruthless. They're afraid for their own skins. And no, the educated, pro-Western hip types aren't the majority. Those are the upper middle-class city-dwellers. But the PTB's are afraid of alienating their power base and turning it into a majority against them. They still have to resort to hiring foreign thugs to fill out the ranks of the bone-breakers.

528 Flyers1974  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 3:11:41pm

re: #526 sagehen

Not all of the mullahs are nutjobs; Rafsanjani's been maneuvering very effectively, some of the council (and Ayatollah Montazeri, who's a really big deal) have publicly spoken up for the protesters and for Moussavi... Ahmedinejad and Khameni are barely holding on (mostly because the basij is in their faction) but it won't last long.

We're impatient because we want it done yesterday, but regime change is coming.

And this is one reason why I suspect Bush didn't let the greater threat of Iran prevent him from going to Iraq. And perhaps why Obama hasn't played the macho man in public.

529 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 3:21:44pm

[Link: xkcd.com...]

530 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 3:25:15pm

I offer a better deal:

[Link: subgenius.com...]

Ordainment is a mere $30, and it comes with a guarantee: eternal salvation or TRIPLE your money back.

531 Kosh's Shadow  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 3:29:57pm

re: #530 negativ

I offer a better deal:

[Link: subgenius.com...]

Ordainment is a mere $30, and it comes with a guarantee: eternal salvation or TRIPLE your money back.

I don't think the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster even charges for ordination.
And its afterlife includes a stripper factory and a beer volcano. I don't know what women get.

532 sagehen  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 3:31:57pm

re: #531 Kosh's Shadow

I don't think the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster even charges for ordination.
And its afterlife includes a stripper factory and a beer volcano. I don't know what women get.

The strippers come from Chippendales, and instead of beer we get wine and chocolate.

533 debutaunt  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 3:33:56pm

re: #531 Kosh's Shadow

I don't think the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster even charges for ordination.
And its afterlife includes a stripper factory and a beer volcano. I don't know what women get.

Dark chocolate is mentioned endlessly in the promo.

534 Kosh's Shadow  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 3:36:45pm

re: #532 sagehen

re: #533 debutaunt

Thanks, and I hope you are in pirate regalia as you give this info.
/

535 Nemesis6  Sat, Sep 26, 2009 5:46:57pm

These religious TV shows can be quite entertaining, especially when their cut-off button suddenly doesn't work:

Youtube Video
536 ex cathedra  Sun, Sep 27, 2009 3:34:41am

re: #469 Buck

"Fact is there is nothing anyone can do now... it is way too late."


Oh, don't say that. We must not lose hope and a resolve to act.


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