Video: Obama Allows Turkey to Live
Video • Views: 2,496
Barack Obama’s scheme to indoctrinate the turkeys of America is proceeding apace.
382 comments
3 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Wed, Nov 25, 2009 10:04:40am |
I didn't realize we had a problem with Turkey. Oh...the bird. My bad.
///
| 4 |
Kragar Wed, Nov 25, 2009 10:04:45am |
| 5 |
Fenway_Nation Wed, Nov 25, 2009 10:05:26am |
Looks like he's found Geitner's replacement.
| 6 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Wed, Nov 25, 2009 10:05:54am |
Pigs, cows and chickens to send delegation to present their requests to the president next...
| 9 |
Sharmuta Wed, Nov 25, 2009 10:08:27am |
"Pardon" is just the new word for "able to receive medical care". This turkey will get to see a doctor, but countless other turkeys will be left to die!
| 10 |
MandyManners Wed, Nov 25, 2009 10:09:02am |
| 11 |
Kragar Wed, Nov 25, 2009 10:09:54am |
re: #9 Sharmuta
"Pardon" is just the new word for "able to receive medical care". This turkey will get to see a doctor, but countless other turkeys will be left to die!
Must be a member of Congress.
| 12 |
SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Nov 25, 2009 10:09:57am |
re: #9 Sharmuta
"Pardon" is just the new word for "able to receive medical care". This turkey will get to see a doctor, but countless other turkeys will be left to die!
Any turkey can walk into an emergency room in the United States and receive medical care! No turkeys die because of lack of health benefits in the United States! I'm really offended that you're spouting that leftist tripe!
///
| 13 |
MandyManners Wed, Nov 25, 2009 10:10:34am |
| 15 |
Killgore Trout Wed, Nov 25, 2009 10:11:50am |
Cheneys Slam Obama for Turkey Pardon, Urge Military Tribunal for Gobbler
“OBAMA IS JUST GIVING THIS TURKEY A PLATFORM TO SEND GOBBLED MESSAGES TO ITS RADICAL VEGETARIAN SUPPORTERS, WHEN HE SHOULD BE KNOCKING THE STUFFING OUT OF THE BIRD, TRYING IT IN GITMO, AND THEN RENDITIONING IT … TO TURKEY.”
| 16 |
Racer X Wed, Nov 25, 2009 10:12:11am |
And what about all of the other innocent turkeys?
Why are some turkeys better than others?
I demand equal turkey justice!
| 17 |
lawhawk Wed, Nov 25, 2009 10:12:33am |
re: #16 Racer X
Just as long as it gets waterboarded with gravy, I'm for it.
| 18 |
Sharmuta Wed, Nov 25, 2009 10:13:20am |
re: #17 lawhawk
Just as long as it gets waterboarded with gravy, I'm for it.
Really waterboarding a turkey involves a brine. Ask Alton Brown.
| 19 |
Racer X Wed, Nov 25, 2009 10:13:37am |
re: #17 lawhawk
Just as long as it gets waterboarded with gravy, I'm for it.
Waterboarded? I heard they BRINED this poor bird.
| 22 |
Kragar Wed, Nov 25, 2009 10:15:40am |
| 23 |
J.S. Wed, Nov 25, 2009 10:16:06am |
re: #16 Racer X
Yes! Yes! This calls for Solidarity. We are all turkeys now!
| 24 |
Claire Wed, Nov 25, 2009 10:16:10am |
And he uses the opportunity to talk some more about himself! Incredible!
| 25 |
reloadingisnotahobby Wed, Nov 25, 2009 10:16:19am |
We will have a side dish of roast
Hungarian Grouse (Pine Hen for tho's who hunt) WITH Turkey!!
...and ham ...corn bread...etc!
We dooon't neeed no stinking pardons!
| 26 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Wed, Nov 25, 2009 10:16:41am |
Yeah, well, I have it on good authority that the cranberries were framed, and nobody read the potatoes their miranda rights.
| 27 |
Mad Al-Jaffee Wed, Nov 25, 2009 10:16:49am |
I'm using a dry brine this year (just kosher salt and brown sugar rubbed all over the skin.) What kind of torture is that?
| 28 |
vxbush Wed, Nov 25, 2009 10:16:54am |
re: #23 J.S.
Yes! Yes! This calls for Solidarity. We are all turkeys now!
Well. Speak for yourself.
/
| 29 |
reloadingisnotahobby Wed, Nov 25, 2009 10:17:23am |
re: #23 J.S.
I'm goobler your a goobler wouldn't you like to be a...
| 30 |
Obdicut Wed, Nov 25, 2009 10:17:27am |
Quick, someone find a picture of him eating turkey, proving that he's a hypocrite!
| 31 |
J.S. Wed, Nov 25, 2009 10:17:39am |
re: #27 Mad Al-Jaffee
wait a second...isn't that a "rub" and not a "brine"?
| 33 |
wrenchwench Wed, Nov 25, 2009 10:17:49am |
re: #27 Mad Al-Jaffee
I'm using a dry brine this year (just kosher salt and brown sugar rubbed all over the skin.) What kind of torture is that?
And what will you be doing to the turkey?
/
| 34 |
Killgore Trout Wed, Nov 25, 2009 10:17:58am |
re: #24 Claire
Count how many times he says I or me. He's the most groveling narcissist ever!
/
| 35 |
Mad Al-Jaffee Wed, Nov 25, 2009 10:17:59am |
re: #25 reloadingisnotahobby
We will have a side dish of roast
Hungarian Grouse (Pine Hen for tho's who hunt) WITH Turkey!!
...and ham ...corn bread...etc!
We dooon't neeed no stinking pardons!
I like the Famous Grouse.
| 37 |
lawhawk Wed, Nov 25, 2009 10:18:38am |
re: #26 EmmmieG
And the stuffing was repeatedly mashed and put into a hot, dark, place for hours where it was left to stew in juices. And the dressing was baked at 400 degrees without the slightest thought to its feelings.
| 38 |
Claire Wed, Nov 25, 2009 10:18:39am |
re: #27 Mad Al-Jaffee
I'm using a dry brine this year (just kosher salt and brown sugar rubbed all over the skin.) What kind of torture is that?
What does that do to the gravy?
| 39 |
Killgore Trout Wed, Nov 25, 2009 10:18:50am |
re: #31 J.S.
wait a second...isn't that a "rub" and not a "brine"?
I'd call it a dry cure but that's just me.
| 40 |
reloadingisnotahobby Wed, Nov 25, 2009 10:18:52am |
re: #35 Mad Al-Jaffee
These are famous!!!
We bragged for two days...
| 42 |
Mad Al-Jaffee Wed, Nov 25, 2009 10:19:12am |
re: #31 J.S.
wait a second...isn't that a "rub" and not a "brine"?
It works like a brine. The salt gets absorbed into the meat, then releases back out.
[Link: www.latimes.com...]
| 43 |
Bagua Wed, Nov 25, 2009 10:19:13am |
Obama does not eat turkey, that would be cannibalism.
| 44 |
Kragar Wed, Nov 25, 2009 10:19:57am |
Just remembered. I need to pick up some cheesecloth.
| 45 |
HelloDare Wed, Nov 25, 2009 10:19:58am |
There must be massive celebrations in Ankara!
| 46 |
lawhawk Wed, Nov 25, 2009 10:20:02am |
re: #27 Mad Al-Jaffee
That's food abuse if you ask me. /
Seriously though, I don't brine turkeys because I get kosher birds that are already brined (soaked and salted), so someone else has done that work for me.
| 47 |
Mad Al-Jaffee Wed, Nov 25, 2009 10:20:15am |
re: #33 wrenchwench
And what will you be doing to the turkey?
/
I probably shouldn't mention that I'm smoking a breast instead of a whole bird this year. Yeah, I gave that breast a good rubbing Monday night.
| 49 |
StillAMarine Wed, Nov 25, 2009 10:20:43am |
| 50 |
Mad Al-Jaffee Wed, Nov 25, 2009 10:20:46am |
re: #40 reloadingisnotahobby
These are famous!!!
We bragged for two days...
I mean the blended scotch whiskey.
| 52 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Wed, Nov 25, 2009 10:21:08am |
Here's a fun photo gallery: Presidents and turkeys
(Warning: Graphic images. Some of these turkeys did NOT receive a pardon).)
[Link: www.life.com...]
| 53 |
Kragar Wed, Nov 25, 2009 10:21:33am |
re: #47 Mad Al-Jaffee
Yeah, I gave that breast a good rubbing Monday night.
The wife must have enjoyed that.
/rimshot
| 54 |
HelloDare Wed, Nov 25, 2009 10:21:33am |
Cheney would have wrung its neck. Or just bitten it off whole. Hard to say.
| 55 |
Mad Al-Jaffee Wed, Nov 25, 2009 10:21:37am |
re: #46 lawhawk
That's food abuse if you ask me. /
Seriously though, I don't brine turkeys because I get kosher birds that are already brined (soaked and salted), so someone else has done that work for me.
If you buy one that's not brined, you can add flavors to it by adding spices, juice, ect. to the brine.
| 56 |
reloadingisnotahobby Wed, Nov 25, 2009 10:22:32am |
re: #50 Mad Al-Jaffee
...ah...OH!
Never touch the stuff!
J.D. is all I got!
Is it from Tenn...?
| 57 |
Bagua Wed, Nov 25, 2009 10:22:34am |
re: #54 HelloDare
Cheney would have wrung its neck. Or just bitten it off whole. Hard to say.
The record indicates he would have shot him.
| 58 |
Mad Al-Jaffee Wed, Nov 25, 2009 10:23:09am |
re: #53 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
The wife must have enjoyed that.
/rimshot
Joke's on you my friend - I'm single!
| 59 |
Sharmuta Wed, Nov 25, 2009 10:23:25am |
re: #55 Mad Al-Jaffee
If you buy one that's not brined, you can add flavors to it by adding spices, juice, ect. to the brine.
The first brined turkey I had was in a Savory Brine. It was delicious.
| 60 |
Mad Al-Jaffee Wed, Nov 25, 2009 10:23:37am |
re: #56 reloadingisnotahobby
...ah...OH!
Never touch the stuff!
J.D. is all I got!
Is it from Tenn...?
No, Scotland.
| 61 |
Walter L. Newton Wed, Nov 25, 2009 10:23:43am |
| 62 |
SixDegrees Wed, Nov 25, 2009 10:23:50am |
Just pulled my bird out of it's brine bath, where it's been for the last 24 hours. It's now spending another 24 hours resting uncovered in the refrigerator, a new wrinkle that I'm told dries the skin and promotes crispness.
One last quick trip to the store for a few neglected items, and it's time to start prepping whatever else can get done ahead of time.
| 63 |
Mad Al-Jaffee Wed, Nov 25, 2009 10:24:11am |
re: #54 HelloDare
Cheney would have wrung its neck. Or just bitten it off whole. Hard to say.
I wonder what Idi Amin would do. Probably start by dressing an enemy in a turkey suit.
| 64 |
Kragar Wed, Nov 25, 2009 10:24:26am |
| 65 |
reloadingisnotahobby Wed, Nov 25, 2009 10:24:50am |
re: #60 Mad Al-Jaffee
I've seen that!!!
That show where the lucky bastard travels the world getting
ripped!!
I hate that guy!LOL
| 66 |
Kragar Wed, Nov 25, 2009 10:24:52am |
| 67 |
Mad Al-Jaffee Wed, Nov 25, 2009 10:26:05am |
re: #61 Walter L. Newton
Joke's on you... you must be lonely?
Not at all. If that was the case, I would be stocking up on pies for the holiday.
| 68 |
lawhawk Wed, Nov 25, 2009 10:27:25am |
re: #65 reloadingisnotahobby
Three Sheets! Great show, and what does it say about people who watch a show watching a guy get blitzed in far flung reaches of the planet drinking stuff you only wish you could get your hands on.
I want that job. My wife needs that job.
Besides, it's the ultimate - we will work for beer and vacation jaunts around the planet.
| 69 |
Sharmuta Wed, Nov 25, 2009 10:27:57am |
For the Foodies who may not have seen these show yet, here is Good Eats two best shows- Romancing the Bird, and Behind The Bird (their mockumentary)
| 70 |
Vicious Babushka Wed, Nov 25, 2009 10:27:58am |
| 71 |
MrSilverDragon Wed, Nov 25, 2009 10:28:50am |
So since he's letting the turkeys live, when is he going to hire them for his cabinet?
Oh wait, he already has!
/ba dum bump ching
| 72 |
J.S. Wed, Nov 25, 2009 10:29:08am |
re: #42 Mad Al-Jaffee
(with an actual soaking in a brine, the muscle fibers absorb the water...that's with a real brine -- and you can ruin a brine if there's too much salt -- need to have the proper proportions...here's an article about it. Another advantage to using a brine solution is that the turkey's white meat doesn't dry out as much...America's Test Kitchen suggests putting the turkey into a picnic cooler, etc.)
| 73 |
Mad Al-Jaffee Wed, Nov 25, 2009 10:29:21am |
re: #69 Sharmuta
Please don't call me a foodie. I'm a damn good cook, and I love to eat, but I can't stand that term!
| 74 |
Bagua Wed, Nov 25, 2009 10:29:58am |
| 75 |
lawhawk Wed, Nov 25, 2009 10:30:19am |
How can we be sure that turkey is a US citizen? Have we seen its birth certificate? How can we know that it isn't just going to freeload down on some farm somewhere and take up valuable natural resources that could go to a domestic bird? I'm just asking the questions here. /
| 76 |
Mad Al-Jaffee Wed, Nov 25, 2009 10:30:55am |
re: #72 J.S.
I've been brining and smoking turkeys (that is cooking them in my smoker) for over ten years. I've never had any go worng.
I did a test run with a dry brine this weekend with some cornish game hens and they turned out great.
| 77 |
Kragar Wed, Nov 25, 2009 10:31:31am |
re: #75 lawhawk
How can we be sure that turkey is a US citizen? Have we seen its birth certificate? How can we know that it isn't just going to freeload down on some farm somewhere and take up valuable natural resources that could go to a domestic bird? I'm just asking the questions here. /
Plus its a white turkey, we can't overlook that. Just saying.
///
| 78 |
wrenchwench Wed, Nov 25, 2009 10:32:54am |
| 79 |
Mad Al-Jaffee Wed, Nov 25, 2009 10:33:37am |
If you go to chowhound.com and read the Home Cooking forums, there's plenty of discussion about brining (wet and dry) there.
| 80 |
J.S. Wed, Nov 25, 2009 10:33:40am |
re: #75 lawhawk
yeah...Was it captured abroad? Former resident of, say, Canada?
| 81 |
Kragar Wed, Nov 25, 2009 10:33:46am |
Just going with the old reliable roast turkey. Tossing some onions and bay leaves inside, layering it with cheese cloth and basting it with butter and its own juices, tossing in a little boullion and some other secret herbs and seasonings along the way.
| 82 |
reloadingisnotahobby Wed, Nov 25, 2009 10:34:45am |
re: #68 lawhawk
Not to mention the educational value!!;=)
| 83 |
Mad Al-Jaffee Wed, Nov 25, 2009 10:34:50am |
| 85 |
Obdicut Wed, Nov 25, 2009 10:36:05am |
OT: For any gaming geeks:
| 86 |
Claire Wed, Nov 25, 2009 10:36:22am |
Potatoes were mashed, corn was creamed, turkey was stuffed- Such violence!
The meat man at the grocery store recommends roasting the bird breastside down. Has anybody tried that? I did ours in those plastic roaster bags last year- it came out great + tons and tons of gravy because none of the liquid evaporated in the oven.
| 88 |
Killgore Trout Wed, Nov 25, 2009 10:38:46am |
re: #85 Obdicut
Have you played Modern Warfare 2 yet? I'm thinking about buying it mostly for the multiplayer stuff. I'm easily bored with first person shooters.
| 89 |
Mad Al-Jaffee Wed, Nov 25, 2009 10:39:36am |
Why can't you take a turkey to church?
Because they use such FOWL language
Why did the turkey cross the road?
It was the chicken's day off.
What kind of music did the Pilgrims like?
Plymouth Rock
A lady was picking through the frozen turkeys at the grocery store, but couldn't find one big enough for her family. She asked the stock boy, 'Do these turkeys get any bigger?'
The stock boy answered, 'No ma'am, they're dead.'
| 90 |
vxbush Wed, Nov 25, 2009 10:39:44am |
re: #88 Killgore Trout
Have you played Modern Warfare 2 yet? I'm thinking about buying it mostly for the multiplayer stuff. I'm easily bored with first person shooters.
I've thought about bringing Myst back out and running it this weekend, mainly for the son...
| 91 |
reloadingisnotahobby Wed, Nov 25, 2009 10:40:00am |
re: #88 Killgore Trout
...Join a gang...it'll get ya out of the house...
...Just sayin!
| 92 |
Boogberg Wed, Nov 25, 2009 10:40:06am |
re: #79 Mad Al-Jaffee
If you go to chowhound.com and read the Home Cooking forums, there's plenty of discussion about brining (wet and dry) there.
Thanks. I have no idea what brining is.
| 93 |
sattv4u2 Wed, Nov 25, 2009 10:40:48am |
re: #91 reloadingisnotahobby
...Join a gang...it'll get ya out of the house...
...Just sayin!
Not to mention learning neat signs and getting tatoos~!
| 94 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Wed, Nov 25, 2009 10:41:01am |
re: #92 Boogberg
Thanks. I have no idea what brining is.
Soaking meat in a salt water (and sugar) mixture. I highly recommend it before frying chicken.
| 98 |
reloadingisnotahobby Wed, Nov 25, 2009 10:42:20am |
re: #94 EmmmieG
I've never soaked Turkey...game birds yes,Myself ...usually!
| 99 |
Obdicut Wed, Nov 25, 2009 10:43:02am |
re: #88 Killgore Trout
Have you played Modern Warfare 2 yet? I'm thinking about buying it mostly for the multiplayer stuff. I'm easily bored with first person shooters.
No, I'm not planning on doing so. The PC limitations are overly idiotic, to me, and I won't play FPS on console. I was also unthrilled by World at War. Also, 'that level' really turned me off, because I felt it has half-baked and just put in there to generate controversy.
| 100 |
Killgore Trout Wed, Nov 25, 2009 10:44:01am |
NSFW language...
Zero Punctuation: Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2
| 101 |
Varek Raith Wed, Nov 25, 2009 10:44:33am |
re: #99 Obdicut
No, I'm not planning on doing so. The PC limitations are overly idiotic, to me, and I won't play FPS on console. I was also unthrilled by World at War. Also, 'that level' really turned me off, because I felt it has half-baked and just put in there to generate controversy.
Sten Approves +1
:)
| 102 |
Boogberg Wed, Nov 25, 2009 10:44:49am |
| 103 |
Kragar Wed, Nov 25, 2009 10:46:22am |
I'm thinking of picking up Bio Shock 2 when it comes out.
| 104 |
J.S. Wed, Nov 25, 2009 10:47:12am |
re: #102 Boogberg
(I posted a link to the science of brining -- in post 72...(there's a whole science/chemistry behind the idea.)
| 105 |
Bagua Wed, Nov 25, 2009 10:47:27am |
re: #80 J.S.
yeah...Was it captured abroad? Former resident of, say, Canada?
If the Turkey was captured abroad, does have the same constitutional rights as a U.S. Turkey?
| 106 |
Killgore Trout Wed, Nov 25, 2009 10:47:54am |
re: #99 Obdicut
I think I might skip it too. I hate wasting money on updated versions of Doom. It was ok in 1987 but the charm has worn off.
| 107 |
reloadingisnotahobby Wed, Nov 25, 2009 10:48:14am |
I don't want hear any of ya talking about what or
how you treat a HAM at Christmas! Ok?
| 108 |
Only The Lurker Knows Wed, Nov 25, 2009 10:48:41am |
Morning/Afternoon all.
I am cheating this year. Since it is just the Wife and I, We are doing a Jennie-O Turkey loaf, Instant Potatoes, Corn, Sweet potatoes, and a bottle of Heinz Home Style Roasted Turkey Gravy. Max prep time, 30 minutes tops.
/ So much for tradition.
| 109 |
Killgore Trout Wed, Nov 25, 2009 10:49:03am |
re: #103 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
I never finished the first one. The setting and graphics were cool but see #106
| 110 |
Gearhead Wed, Nov 25, 2009 10:49:57am |
re: #105 Bagua
If the Turkey was captured abroad, does have the same constitutional rights as a U.S. Turkey?
The turkey was just going to gobble on and on about what it sees as Thanksgiving's flaws.
| 111 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Wed, Nov 25, 2009 10:50:05am |
re: #108 Bubblehead II
No pie? No pie?!!! You are so unAmerican. Just go to Canada already!
(Actually, I know my sisters are making pie, so I'm cheesecake this year.)
| 112 |
Mad Al-Jaffee Wed, Nov 25, 2009 10:50:10am |
| 113 |
reloadingisnotahobby Wed, Nov 25, 2009 10:50:25am |
re: #108 Bubblehead II
Hey everybody...Bubba's goin to get lucky tomm...
Right around "kickoff time"!!;-)
| 114 |
ghazidor Wed, Nov 25, 2009 10:50:50am |
So they are having Tofurkey at the white house this year?
/
| 115 |
sattv4u2 Wed, Nov 25, 2009 10:51:29am |
re: #114 ausador
So they are having Tofurkey at the white house this year?
/
I'm not sure if they invited Pelosi or not!
//
| 116 |
Boogberg Wed, Nov 25, 2009 10:51:40am |
re: #104 J.S.
(I posted a link to the science of brining -- in post 72...(there's a whole science/chemistry behind the idea.)
Oops! Sorry, I missed it somehow. I'll give it a look and thank you as well.
| 117 |
reloadingisnotahobby Wed, Nov 25, 2009 10:51:44am |
re: #113 reloadingisnotahobby
Hey everybody...Bubba's goin to get lucky tomm...
Right around "kickoff time"!!;-)
After all ...You'll have more time on your hand...
Is this where I *duck*?
| 118 |
Kragar Wed, Nov 25, 2009 10:52:08am |
re: #109 Killgore Trout
I never finished the first one. The setting and graphics were cool but see #106
Not a big FPS fan usually, but I enjoyed the first one. I prefer turned based strategy usually and the occasional MMO.
| 119 |
Gearhead Wed, Nov 25, 2009 10:52:22am |
re: #112 Mad Al-Jaffee
Crappy Consumer Reports: The Worst Food to Bring to Thanksgiving
"Krispy Kreme is a subpar doughnut franchise."
barbarians
| 120 |
Killgore Trout Wed, Nov 25, 2009 10:52:59am |
re: #112 Mad Al-Jaffee
12 Bird Roast
There's really little chance of you deciding to bring this over for dinner, unless maybe you're Martha Stewart out to prove something. Apparently you'll need a turkey, a chicken, a duck, a quail, an ostrich, a platypus, Big Bird, and anything else with a beak that happens to be passing by. The result? An avian holocaust on a platter that will serve roughly Valhalla.
Heh.
| 121 |
MandyManners Wed, Nov 25, 2009 10:53:01am |
re: #105 Bagua
If the Turkey was captured abroad, does have the same constitutional rights as a U.S. Turkey?
He has the right to get stuffed.
| 122 |
abolitionist Wed, Nov 25, 2009 10:54:10am |
| 123 |
wrenchwench Wed, Nov 25, 2009 10:54:19am |
re: #108 Bubblehead II
Morning/Afternoon all.
I am cheating this year. Since it is just the Wife and I, We are doing a Jennie-O Turkey loaf, Instant Potatoes, Corn, Sweet potatoes, and a bottle of Heinz Home Style Roasted Turkey Gravy. Max prep time, 30 minutes tops.
/ So much for tradition.
We're doing either Salmon Loaf or Chiles Rellenos. And we don't have to decide until tomorrow!
Yes, Emmmie, there will be pie too!
| 124 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Wed, Nov 25, 2009 10:54:26am |
Years ago, our next door neighbor was French. Well, the whole family was French, but you get the idea.
In early November she came over to talk and asked, "What is it you do...for Thanksgiving?"
"Well, we get together with family, say a few things we are grateful for, and then we eat too much."
"And what else do you do?"
"That's pretty much it. We eat too much."
| 126 |
Digital Display Wed, Nov 25, 2009 10:55:16am |
My Turkey's Lawyer is making a last minute appeal to the Supreme Court for Clemency...Little does mr. turkey know that I've unplugged the phone...
| 127 |
wee fury Wed, Nov 25, 2009 10:56:07am |
Lesson for all turkeys.
You too, may be spared the fork.
| 128 |
MandyManners Wed, Nov 25, 2009 10:56:08am |
| 129 |
Only The Lurker Knows Wed, Nov 25, 2009 10:56:08am |
re: #111 EmmmieG
Nope, would probably get nibbled on for a bit and then thrown out. Neither of us are big pie fans.
| 130 |
wrenchwench Wed, Nov 25, 2009 10:56:33am |
re: #118 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Not a big FPS fan usually, but I enjoyed the first one. I prefer turned
basedbasted strategy usually and the occasional MMO.
FTFY.
Oh, wait. You weren't talking turkey.
| 131 |
Mad Al-Jaffee Wed, Nov 25, 2009 10:56:48am |
| 132 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Wed, Nov 25, 2009 10:57:35am |
re: #126 HoosierHoops
My Turkey's Lawyer is making a last minute appeal to the Supreme Court for Clemency...Little does mr. turkey know that I've unplugged the phone...
For maximum fear you should cut the line. Then arrange for a dark, misty night, and a lot of good shadows.
It's "Turkey Trot III: the return of the roaster"
| 133 |
Only The Lurker Knows Wed, Nov 25, 2009 10:57:42am |
re: #113 reloadingisnotahobby
One never really knows for sure what will transpire in that Dept. around here. ;-)
| 134 |
Gearhead Wed, Nov 25, 2009 10:58:20am |
I just hope the poor thing wasn't gravyboarded...
| 135 |
Only The Lurker Knows Wed, Nov 25, 2009 10:58:51am |
re: #117 reloadingisnotahobby
Nah, just makes it harder for Mandy to *whack* ya.
| 136 |
Ojoe Wed, Nov 25, 2009 11:00:00am |
We shouldn't eat all we want, then the turkeys will say "OK"
| 137 |
Mad Al-Jaffee Wed, Nov 25, 2009 11:00:04am |
I keep thinking of that early South Park episode with the mutant genetically modified turkeys.
| 138 |
MandyManners Wed, Nov 25, 2009 11:03:00am |
re: #136 Ojoe
We shouldn't eat all we want, then the turkeys will say "OK"
Extra kimchi for you, Comrade.
| 140 |
Digital Display Wed, Nov 25, 2009 11:04:29am |
Turkeys can run up to 25mph and fly at 35mph...Much faster than man..
So what's the problem Mr. Turkey? YOU ARE GOING DOWN BIRDS!
| 141 |
MandyManners Wed, Nov 25, 2009 11:04:53am |
| 142 |
MandyManners Wed, Nov 25, 2009 11:09:25am |
I think I scared away the guys with my No. 141.
| 143 |
Gearhead Wed, Nov 25, 2009 11:09:44am |
| 144 |
Kragar Wed, Nov 25, 2009 11:10:28am |
For the first time in living memory, the ADL is sounding the alarm about a mainstream media personality: Fox News' Glenn Beck, who also hosts a popular radio show.
The report notes that while "other conservative media hosts, such as Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity, routinely attack Obama and his administration, typically on partisan grounds, they have usually dismissed or refused to give a platform to the conspiracy theorists and anti-government extremists." By contrast, "Beck and his guests have made a habit of demonizing President Obama and promoting conspiracy theories about his administration. ... Beck has even gone so far as to make comparisons between Hitler and Obama."
What gives all of this nonsense an ominous twist is Beck's announcement that he intends to use his TV and radio shows to promote a mass movement that will involve voter registration drives, training in community organizing and a series of regional conventions that will produce a "100-year plan" for America to be read from the steps of the Lincoln Memorial to a mass rally Aug. 28.
| 145 |
Killgore Trout Wed, Nov 25, 2009 11:14:14am |
The Lead story on Politico...
The White House's unprecedented use of 'unprecedented'
The Obama White House is addicted to the “unprecedented.”Perhaps it was a sign when President Barack Obama sat down in January to record his first weekly address and announced: “We begin this year and this administration in the midst of an unprecedented crisis that calls for unprecedented action."
What has followed is declaration after declaration of “unprecedented” milestones. Some of them are legitimate firsts, like the president’s online town hall at the White House in May.
But others the president wins merely on a technicality, and several clearly already have precedents.
I don't think this is intended to be a parody.
| 146 |
AMER1CAN Wed, Nov 25, 2009 11:15:22am |
Sorry if this is a repost:
Navy SEALs Face Assault Charges for Capturing Most-Wanted Terrorist
Navy SEALs have secretly captured one of the most wanted terrorists in Iraq — the alleged mastermind of the murder and mutilation of four Blackwater USA security guards in Fallujah in 2004. And three of the SEALs who captured him are now facing criminal charges, sources told FoxNews.com.
The three, all members of the Navy's elite commando unit, have refused non-judicial punishment — called an admiral's mast — and have requested a trial by court-martial.
Ahmed Hashim Abed, whom the military code-named "Objective Amber," told investigators he was punched by his captors — and he had the bloody lip to prove it.
| 147 |
Only The Lurker Knows Wed, Nov 25, 2009 11:15:37am |
Looks like Holder's decision to have a civil trial for the 9/11 plotters is also causing problems abroad
"The prosecutors in the forthcoming 9/11 trials in New York will be seeking the death penalty if the five defendants are found guilty. That could pose a problem for Germany, which is supplying vital evidence for the prosecution."
| 148 |
Killgore Trout Wed, Nov 25, 2009 11:16:35am |
re: #144 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
Interesting historical comparison of Beck and father Coughlin...
Hard times predictably throw up their demagogues. Still, even allowing for the frenetic pace of our wired world's 24-hour news cycle, it's remarkable how quickly the arc of Beck's career has come to resemble that of the Great Depression's uber-demagogue, Father Charles Coughlin. In the months after the crash of '29, Coughlin turned what had been a conventionally religious weekly radio broadcast into a platform for championing the downtrodden working man. He was an early supporter of the New Deal, coining the slogan "Roosevelt or Ruin," but quickly turned on the president for a variety of complex ideological and personal reasons. Coughlin flirted with Huey Long, launched an unsuccessful political party, published a popular newspaper, Social Justice, and even inspired and supported a kind of militia, the Christian Front, some of whose members were arrested by the FBI and charged with plotting a fascist coup.
| 149 |
sattv4u2 Wed, Nov 25, 2009 11:17:10am |
re: #145 Killgore Trout
The Lead story on Politico...
The White House's unprecedented use of 'unprecedented'
I don't think this is intended to be a parody.
Not meant to be. They ARE addicted to the word, ever since the 'unprecedented" election of an African American President
| 151 |
Sharmuta Wed, Nov 25, 2009 11:20:14am |
Sarah Palin: 'We'll see' about run with Glenn Beck
Former Alaska GOP Gov. Sarah Palin on Wednesday did not rule out running for president alongside Fox News host Glenn Beck in 2012.
Palin was asked during an interview with Fox News’ “Fox & Friends” about the chances that she “would run on a ticket with Fox’s own Glenn Beck” as the conservative outlet Newsmax reported might be a possibility in 2012.
“I saw that, I saw that, he probably got a kick out of that,” Palin said. “It was just a hoot too, to hear such a thing.”
“I don’t know,” she said. “We’ll see, we’ll see.”
Lord have mercy on us all.
| 152 |
Mad Al-Jaffee Wed, Nov 25, 2009 11:21:13am |
"What a turkey! Hey, fella! You're a turkey! "
-Goose, Mad Max
| 153 |
Killgore Trout Wed, Nov 25, 2009 11:22:07am |
re: #149 sattv4u2
How about the unprecedented obsession with counting words...
Andrew Jackson was the first president to use the word “unprecedented,” in 1831, according to a search of the archives of The American Presidency Project. For more than 100 years afterward, presidents used the word “unprecedented” in 72 speeches and mostly reserved it for major addresses.But since FDR talked of meeting “the unprecedented task before us” during his first inaugural address in 1933, presidents have used the word on almost 2,000 occasions to describe everything from the death of Elvis Presley (Carter) to the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan (Reagan).
Obama has relied on “unprecedented” in more than 90 instances, using the word at least 129 times in everything from major addresses to small speeches, statements, memorandums and proclamations. (Bush, by contrast, used the word 262 times over eight years.)
| 154 |
Mad Al-Jaffee Wed, Nov 25, 2009 11:22:41am |
re: #151 Sharmuta
That's as absurd as an actor from SNL becoming a senator!
| 156 |
sattv4u2 Wed, Nov 25, 2009 11:23:57am |
re: #148 Killgore Trout
He was an early supporter of the New Deal, coining the slogan "Roosevelt or Ruin," but quickly turned on the president for a variety of complex ideological and personal reasons. Coughlin flirted with Huey Long, launched an unsuccessful political party,
Beck was an early supporter of Obama?
I'm no Beckian, but I think you're comparisons are a stretch.
Why not say Beck and Coughlin both ate (GASP) fish! Or they both wore (HEAVENS) Shoes!?!?!
| 157 |
J.S. Wed, Nov 25, 2009 11:24:44am |
re: #147 Bubblehead II
(I believe holding the trials in Federal court could also cause problems in the UK -- there are a number of former Gitmo detainees who are suing the UK and they want info (classified info) as to just who was torturing them, etc., etc.)
| 158 |
Digital Display Wed, Nov 25, 2009 11:25:07am |
re: #151 Sharmuta
Sarah Palin: 'We'll see' about run with Glenn Beck
Lord have mercy on us all.
Ain't that the truth! Check your mail Sharm
| 159 |
Bagua Wed, Nov 25, 2009 11:25:38am |
| 160 |
sattv4u2 Wed, Nov 25, 2009 11:25:39am |
re: #153 Killgore Trout
How about the unprecedented obsession with counting words...
How about an unprecedented obsession with all thinks Beck and Paul?
You remember Ron Paul, don't you. The man that took all of 1.6% of the delegate count in the Repub primaries?
| 161 |
Walter L. Newton Wed, Nov 25, 2009 11:25:57am |
re: #144 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
That doesn't matter. In their effort to take over the world, Fox News is cleverly mixing commentary, entertainment and news, jumbling it all together to the point that some people cannot tell the difference between hard news and opinion.
And then, after Fox has managed to confuse the issues in that manner, they send out magic brain waves from their numerous broadcasting towers around the country (hidden in secret undisclosed locations) which results in certain people becoming very Liberal, and the next thing you know, these out of control Liberals are posting straw men comments on forums such as Pinecam.
And what does this accomplish? Fox gets oodles and oodles of free publicity, drawing people to their evil stations and radio shows, and forcing their scary conservative agenda on the entire world.
Works every time.
| 163 |
Mad Al-Jaffee Wed, Nov 25, 2009 11:27:04am |
re: #161 Walter L. Newton
Are you serious? You mean Pinch from Red Eye isn't really a New York Times correspondent?!
| 164 |
sattv4u2 Wed, Nov 25, 2009 11:27:58am |
re: #162 Sharmuta
I'll keep an eye out!
Eeeewww ,,, thats messy!
Shove that thing back in the socket will ya? Thats GROSS!
| 166 |
Walter L. Newton Wed, Nov 25, 2009 11:29:19am |
re: #160 sattv4u2
How about an unprecedented obsession with all thinks Beck and Paul?
You remember Ron Paul, don't you. The man that took all of 1.6% of the delegate count in the Repub primaries?
I see a trend from the liberals. Often it's easier to make fun of mentally unstable people than actually have to develop coherent arguments and challenge real thinkers.
Have you noticed that?
| 167 |
J.S. Wed, Nov 25, 2009 11:30:00am |
re: #145 Killgore Trout
(of course it's not a parody...Actually there are any number of scholarly researchers -- it's called "qualitative research" -- who use word counts (get all those digital "word cloud" programs out there being used.) Some "qualitative research" is deemed "controversial" (for a variety of reasons I'm not going into), but there are many who consider it legitimate.)
| 168 |
Walter L. Newton Wed, Nov 25, 2009 11:30:24am |
re: #163 Mad Al-Jaffee
Are you serious? You mean Pinch from Red Eye isn't really a New York Times correspondent?!
I don't know who/what you are referencing?
| 169 |
Sharmuta Wed, Nov 25, 2009 11:30:38am |
re: #166 Walter L. Newton
I see a trend from the liberals. Often it's easier to make fun of mentally unstable people than actually have to develop coherent arguments and challenge real thinkers.
Have you noticed that?
That's if they haven't dismissed you altogether.
| 171 |
sattv4u2 Wed, Nov 25, 2009 11:31:35am |
re: #166 Walter L. Newton
I see a trend from the liberals. Often it's easier to make fun of mentally unstable people than actually have to develop coherent arguments and challenge real thinkers.
Have you noticed that?
Please don't call me mentally unstable
I prefer the old fashioned non PC "whack job", thankyouverymuch
| 172 |
Mad Al-Jaffee Wed, Nov 25, 2009 11:32:36am |
re: #168 Walter L. Newton
I don't know who/what you are referencing?
Red Eye with Greg Gutfeld. It's on 3 AM on Fox News. It's the only FN show (and the only talk show) I watch.
| 173 |
Walter L. Newton Wed, Nov 25, 2009 11:32:52am |
re: #167 J.S.
(of course it's not a parody...Actually there are any number of scholarly researchers -- it's called "qualitative research" -- who use word counts (get all those digital "word cloud" programs out there being used.) Some "qualitative research" is deemed "controversial" (for a variety of reasons I'm not going into), but there are many who consider it legitimate.)
I have linked to the science in the past. But science is only valid when it is used to make conservatives look like luddites. As soon as you find a conservative using recognized science, then it's all stupid, all the time.
| 174 |
Mad Al-Jaffee Wed, Nov 25, 2009 11:33:03am |
re: #168 Walter L. Newton
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]
| 175 |
Dynomite Wed, Nov 25, 2009 11:33:11am |
re: #13 MandyManners
I knew it without clicking it. I have that song on my iPod strictly for listening to while driving on Turkey Day.
Of course, there's a second song in that rotation as of a few years ago...
| 176 |
Walter L. Newton Wed, Nov 25, 2009 11:33:50am |
re: #171 sattv4u2
Please don't call me mentally unstable
I prefer the old fashioned non PC "whack job", thankyouverymuch
I prefer the Scottish word used for me... unstable.
| 177 |
reloadingisnotahobby Wed, Nov 25, 2009 11:33:59am |
Just got back from lunch...
The wife(silly girl)tried to bath the dog(Boxer) with the help(not)
of three of the girls at daycare!!
...No one with a video camera!
Why she would do that...???
| 178 |
sattv4u2 Wed, Nov 25, 2009 11:34:28am |
re: #176 Walter L. Newton
I prefer the Scottish word used for me... unstable.
I thought thats where one keeps an unhorse!?!?!
| 180 |
Killgore Trout Wed, Nov 25, 2009 11:35:34am |
re: #156 sattv4u2
I'm no Beckian, but I think you're comparisons are a stretch.
It's not mine, it's from the LA times.
| 182 |
reloadingisnotahobby Wed, Nov 25, 2009 11:36:48am |
re: #180 Killgore Trout
...Still more humorous than Al Gore and John Kerry!!
| 183 |
J.S. Wed, Nov 25, 2009 11:36:49am |
re: #173 Walter L. Newton
(although there are any number of old school "quantitative" researchers who would/will never ever call "qualitative research" "science." According to them, it's not science...only quantitative research can fit the category of "science"...you know, you get into that debate of the "soft sciences" vs the "hard sciences" etc...)
| 184 |
tokyobk Wed, Nov 25, 2009 11:36:52am |
No pardon for the Tofurkey.
It dies tonight a brutal death- roasted alive.
| 185 |
Ben Hur Wed, Nov 25, 2009 11:37:57am |
Chinese Jews from Kaifeng arrive in Israel 2009 - a moving documentary
| 186 |
MandyManners Wed, Nov 25, 2009 11:37:58am |
re: #175 Dynomite
I knew it without clicking it. I have that song on my iPod strictly for listening to while driving on Turkey Day.
Of course, there's a second song in that rotation as of a few years ago...
I hate Happy Gilmore but, I love this song!
| 187 |
sattv4u2 Wed, Nov 25, 2009 11:38:06am |
re: #180 Killgore Trout
It's not mine, it's from the LA times.
Well then, I think you linking to the comaprisons is a stretch!
feel better?
| 188 |
sattv4u2 Wed, Nov 25, 2009 11:38:55am |
re: #176 Walter L. Newton
you've got (or soon will have) mail
| 189 |
Walter L. Newton Wed, Nov 25, 2009 11:39:45am |
| 190 |
MandyManners Wed, Nov 25, 2009 11:39:47am |
| 191 |
sattv4u2 Wed, Nov 25, 2009 11:41:25am |
re: #189 Walter L. Newton
I'll be on the lookout for it.
Sharm has "an eye out" too!
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]
| 192 |
Bagua Wed, Nov 25, 2009 11:41:47am |
re: #180 Killgore Trout
It's not mine, it's from the LA times.
In that case, it's not only a stretch but a partisan hack job.
| 193 |
avanti Wed, Nov 25, 2009 11:42:31am |
First tea party convention headliners to be Palin, Bachman. That can't end well.
| 194 |
Walter L. Newton Wed, Nov 25, 2009 11:42:52am |
re: #191 sattv4u2
Sharm has "an eye out" too!
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]
Ok, this is getting a little tedious... step carefully... there's another one... watch it... under your foot...
| 195 |
Killgore Trout Wed, Nov 25, 2009 11:42:58am |
Hot Air comment of the day:
White House can’t stop lying about how everything it does is “unprecedented”
Unprecedented macacaUltimateBob on November 25, 2009 at 2:28 PM
Macaca[1] is a pejorative epithet used by francophone colonialists in Central Africa's Belgian Congo for the native population.[2] It may be derived from the name of the genus comprising macaque monkeys. The word macaque has also been used as a racial slur. The macaque's genus name, Macaca, is a latinization of the Bantu (Kongo) ma-kako,[3] meaning "monkey".
| 196 |
Mad Al-Jaffee Wed, Nov 25, 2009 11:43:22am |
Here's something I'll be making next week (it's not turkey) for my brother and sister in law's annual Danish Christmas dinner (early this year since she's going out of town soon after that):
[Link: recipes.chef2chef.net...]
| 197 |
SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Nov 25, 2009 11:43:37am |
re: #160 sattv4u2
How about an unprecedented obsession with all thinks Beck and Paul?
You remember Ron Paul, don't you. The man that took all of 1.6% of the delegate count in the Repub primaries?
The only Republican primary candidate who has managed to get his supporters out with signs in San Francisco's Richmond District since, I dunno, maybe Reagan, maybe before.
| 198 |
SixDegrees Wed, Nov 25, 2009 11:43:40am |
Just pulled my bird out of it's brine bath, where it's been for the last 24 hours. It's now spending another 24 hours resting uncovered in the refrigerator, a new wrinkle that I'm told dries the skin and promotes crispness.
One last quick trip to the store for a few neglected items, and it's time to start prepping whatever else can get done ahead of time.
re: #148 Killgore Trout
Interesting historical comparison of Beck and father Coughlin...
I drive by The Shrine of the Little Flower almost daily. It was built by Coughlin and was his base of operations during his heyday.
It's a beautiful building, despite it's unpleasant history.
| 199 |
Walter L. Newton Wed, Nov 25, 2009 11:44:14am |
re: #193 avanti
First tea party convention headliners to be Palin, Bachman. That can't end well.
Well, it certainly can for Palin and/or Bachman supporters. For you... don't be scared... they won't bite...
Geeessshhh.
| 200 |
Killgore Trout Wed, Nov 25, 2009 11:44:17am |
re: #187 sattv4u2
Well then, I think you linking to the comaprisons is a stretch!
I didn't link to it, I was responding to someone else who did.
/I feel a squabble coming on so I'm going to drop it.
//done
| 201 |
Varek Raith Wed, Nov 25, 2009 11:45:29am |
re: #200 Killgore Trout
I didn't link to it, I was responding to someone else who did.
/I feel a squabble coming on so I'm going to drop it.
//done
Ow! My foot!
/
| 202 |
reloadingisnotahobby Wed, Nov 25, 2009 11:46:03am |
re: #200 Killgore Trout
Don't mean to interupt...but you said "squab"...
| 203 |
Killgore Trout Wed, Nov 25, 2009 11:46:21am |
re: #195 Killgore Trout
More...
Ah…y’all are missing the point. “Unprecedented” for a half BLACK guy!!1!11!!
SouthernGent on November 25, 2009 at 2:35 PM
| 204 |
avanti Wed, Nov 25, 2009 11:46:34am |
re: #192 Bagua
In that case, it's not only a stretch but a partisan hack job.
It's mostly a just a article on the Anti Defamation League's comments on Beck. If there is a stretch, it's the ADL's.
| 205 |
MandyManners Wed, Nov 25, 2009 11:46:45am |
re: #200 Killgore Trout
I didn't link to it, I was responding to someone else who did.
/I feel a squabble coming on so I'm going to drop it.
//done
SQUABBLESQUABBLESQUABBLE!
| 206 |
SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Nov 25, 2009 11:47:10am |
re: #166 Walter L. Newton
I see a trend from the liberals. Often it's easier to make fun of mentally unstable people than actually have to develop coherent arguments and challenge real thinkers.
Have you noticed that?
I see a trend from conservatives. Often it's easier to become obsessed with the fringe crazies of the Left, and build them up into powerful betes noirs, then become shocked and offended when liberals do the same to their crazy people.
Have you noticed that?
| 207 |
reloadingisnotahobby Wed, Nov 25, 2009 11:47:41am |
re: #205 MandyManners
Are you TRYING to stir a turd??
| 208 |
avanti Wed, Nov 25, 2009 11:47:51am |
re: #199 Walter L. Newton
Well, it certainly can for Palin and/or Bachman supporters. For you... don't be scared... they won't bite...
Geeessshhh.
I'm amused, not really scared. I have faith that most voters will reject their politics.
| 209 |
SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Nov 25, 2009 11:48:56am |
re: #208 avanti
I'm amused, not really scared. I have faith that most voters will reject their politics.
They have politics?
| 211 |
Walter L. Newton Wed, Nov 25, 2009 11:51:24am |
re: #206 SanFranciscoZionist
I see a trend from conservatives. Often it's easier to become obsessed with the fringe crazies of the Left, and build them up into powerful betes noirs, then become shocked and offended when liberals do the same to their crazy people.
Have you noticed that?
Yep. Now that you point it out, I don't think that it happens on the left. I'm mentally ill.
| 212 |
HelloDare Wed, Nov 25, 2009 11:51:32am |
re: #57 Bagua
Cheney would have wrung its neck. Or just bitten it off whole. Hard to say.
The record indicates he would have shot him.
Then he would have bitten his head off. /
| 213 |
wrenchwench Wed, Nov 25, 2009 11:52:01am |
| 214 |
Digital Display Wed, Nov 25, 2009 11:52:11am |
re: #206 SanFranciscoZionist
HI SFZ! Have a happy Thanksgiving... Wishing you and your family will be receiving special grace and Blessings from God this coming year...
| 215 |
sattv4u2 Wed, Nov 25, 2009 11:53:33am |
re: #197 SanFranciscoZionist
The only Republican primary candidate who has managed to get his supporters out with signs in San Francisco's Richmond District since, I dunno, maybe Reagan, maybe before.
And here in HEAVILY Dem/ Lefty area of Atlanta (Druid Hills and Emory) all you saw was (is,, they're still up) Ron Paul signs.
That still garnered him all of 1.6%
| 216 |
Walter L. Newton Wed, Nov 25, 2009 11:53:35am |
re: #208 avanti
I'm amused, not really scared. I have faith that most voters will reject their politics.
Ok... I was worried about you. You seemed to be getting a little obsessive there... don't let Palin get to you... the transistion will be painless.
| 217 |
Bagua Wed, Nov 25, 2009 11:53:59am |
re: #204 avanti
It's mostly a just a article on the Anti Defamation League's comments on Beck. If there is a stretch, it's the ADL's.
Well, I'm glad to hear they are on the case opposing defamation of Beck.
| 218 |
reloadingisnotahobby Wed, Nov 25, 2009 11:55:31am |
Ah CRAP!
The crazies are trying to gain Indangered Spices Protection
Statis for the Cuttthroat Trout!!!
WTF!
I've got some in the freezer...Who wants to have a fish fry?
| 219 |
Walter L. Newton Wed, Nov 25, 2009 11:55:53am |
re: #217 Bagua
Well, I'm glad to hear they are on the case opposing defamation of Beck.
Beck is just a harmless little fur ball... no wait... that's Rush... well, what is Beck...
(answer... laughing all the way to the bank)
| 220 |
sattv4u2 Wed, Nov 25, 2009 11:55:54am |
re: #208 avanti
I'm amused, not really scared. I have faith that most voters will reject their politics.
I had the same faith re: Obama and his!
Oh well!
| 221 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Wed, Nov 25, 2009 11:58:01am |
re: #219 Walter L. Newton
Beck is just a harmless little fur ball... no wait... that's Rush... well, what is Beck...
(answer...
laughingcrying all the way to the bank)
FTFY
| 222 |
Walter L. Newton Wed, Nov 25, 2009 11:58:34am |
| 223 |
Only The Lurker Knows Wed, Nov 25, 2009 11:58:56am |
BBIAW, Have to go next door and get the last 3 months of Windows Critical Updates installed on my neighbors computer.
L8R
| 224 |
Decatur Deb Wed, Nov 25, 2009 11:59:10am |
re: #81 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)
(snip) tossing in a little boullion and some other secret herbs and seasonings along the way.
Alice B. Turkey?
| 225 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Wed, Nov 25, 2009 12:00:52pm |
re: #222 Walter L. Newton
I don't mean this as an insult, but I just don't think you have the appropriately high level of manic energy to fill his shoes.
I'd be burnt out in a week trying to mimic his antics.
| 226 |
Decatur Deb Wed, Nov 25, 2009 12:01:09pm |
re: #193 avanti
First tea party convention headliners to be Palin, Bachman. That can't end well.
What's critical mass for that?
| 228 |
Bagua Wed, Nov 25, 2009 12:01:57pm |
re: #225 Slumbering Behemoth
I'd be burnt out in a week trying to mimic his antics.
No Way! We don't burn witches anymore, we make then Secretary of State.
| 229 |
Killgore Trout Wed, Nov 25, 2009 12:02:06pm |
| 230 |
sattv4u2 Wed, Nov 25, 2009 12:02:10pm |
| 231 |
MandyManners Wed, Nov 25, 2009 12:02:16pm |
Gotta' go pick up some more LU water crackers to go with the brie and pepper jack. bbl
| 232 |
avanti Wed, Nov 25, 2009 12:02:26pm |
re: #220 sattv4u2
I had the same faith re: Obama and his!
Oh well!
If the GOP runs Palin against him, you'll have a instant replay.
| 233 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Wed, Nov 25, 2009 12:02:31pm |
re: #228 Bagua
Beck is a witch? Why, it all makes sense now.
/
| 234 |
ghazidor Wed, Nov 25, 2009 12:02:47pm |
OT:
Sarah Palin--"Canada needs to dismantle its public health-care system and allow private enterprise to get involved and turn a profit."
Heh...why presume to give Canada advice on healthcare? I guess the fact that have lower infant mortality and longer, healthier lifespans while spending less per capita than the US does means they are doing it wrong, ehh?
| 235 |
SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Nov 25, 2009 12:03:21pm |
re: #214 HoosierHoops
HI SFZ! Have a happy Thanksgiving... Wishing you and your family will be receiving special grace and Blessings from God this coming year...
You too, Hoops. Have a wonderful holiday!
| 236 |
SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Nov 25, 2009 12:04:16pm |
re: #215 sattv4u2
And here in HEAVILY Dem/ Lefty area of Atlanta (Druid Hills and Emory) all you saw was (is,, they're still up) Ron Paul signs.
That still garnered him all of 1.6%
True--he's not a serious candidate in any sense--I just find the energy and looniness of his followers rather interesting. Disturbing, but interesting.
| 237 |
sattv4u2 Wed, Nov 25, 2009 12:05:31pm |
re: #232 avanti
If the GOP runs Palin against him, you'll have a instant replay.
Yup,, ESPECIALLY with Obamas poll numbers skyrocketing as they are now!!
oh ,,, wait ,, DAMN!
| 238 |
SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Nov 25, 2009 12:05:59pm |
re: #232 avanti
If the GOP runs Palin against him, you'll have a instant replay.
Worse. If Palin runs again, that will mean the GOP has mounted a complete suicide ticket. No one of McCain's caliber is going to willingly repeat that routine.
| 239 |
Killgore Trout Wed, Nov 25, 2009 12:06:46pm |
Michelle Obama Pictures UPDATE: Offensive Image REMOVED, Google 'SORRY' (PHOTO)
UPDATE: The offensive Michell Obama picture has reportedly been removed from the website, Hot Girls, that posted the image.The Hot Girls blog posted a short explanation in Chinese, along with a loosely translated apology in English, explaining, "I am very sorry for this article, and that this is the program automatically issued a document from the article. Do not the subject of race and politics make the discussion too radical and sincere hope that the world is very peaceful." The Guardian also reported that the site took down the offensive image of Michelle Obama.
| 240 |
SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Nov 25, 2009 12:08:13pm |
re: #234 ausador
OT:
Sarah Palin--"Canada needs to dismantle its public health-care system and allow private enterprise to get involved and turn a profit."Heh...why presume to give Canada advice on healthcare? I guess the fact that have lower infant mortality and longer, healthier lifespans while spending less per capita than the US does means they are doing it wrong, ehh?
That can't be. I hear they all have to come to the US to even get an aspirin.
/
| 241 |
lawhawk Wed, Nov 25, 2009 12:09:32pm |
re: #234 ausador
Maybe it has something to do with exporting the tough cases to the US by design? You also have instances where tough pregnancies are sent across the border to US hospitals that are able to provide the kind of care necessary.
If the US wasn't taking in these cases, Canada would have to budget for them.
| 242 |
SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Nov 25, 2009 12:11:05pm |
re: #241 lawhawk
Maybe it has something to do with exporting the tough cases to the US by design? You also have instances where tough pregnancies are sent across the border to US hospitals that are able to provide the kind of care necessary.
If the US wasn't taking in these cases, Canada would have to budget for them.
We treat for free? Or does Canada pay our facilities, or does the patient?
| 243 |
Aceofwhat? Wed, Nov 25, 2009 12:11:22pm |
re: #89 Mad Al-Jaffee
What do you call the feathers on the wing of a turkey?
--turkey feathers. duh.
Why did the turkey cross the road?
--it was the chicken's day off
--to get closer to Cheney, who doesn't shoot birds
--to get farther from the ocean
(had to inject a little AGW humor into the brine...)
| 244 |
Racer X Wed, Nov 25, 2009 12:11:34pm |
re: #234 ausador
OT:
Sarah Palin--"Canada needs to dismantle its public health-care system and allow private enterprise to get involved and turn a profit."Heh...why presume to give Canada advice on healthcare? I guess the fact that have lower infant mortality and longer, healthier lifespans while spending less per capita than the US does means they are doing it wrong, ehh?
I'm starting to rethink my stance on health care. The more I look at it, it seems that having the U.S. government act as the insurance carrier is the best option.
Too many Americans go into serious debt over health care expenses. I think we can do better.
| 245 |
J.S. Wed, Nov 25, 2009 12:12:09pm |
re: #234 ausador
WHAT? You mean we'll have to get rid of our Death panels? NEVER, I say, Never!
| 246 |
J.S. Wed, Nov 25, 2009 12:14:57pm |
re: #242 SanFranciscoZionist
all depends...(there are some cases which if deemed untreatable in Canada, or if the wait is too long, etc., Canada ships 'em to the U.S., and Canada Health care for that province will pay...but, the rules differ in Canada according to province.)
| 247 |
lawhawk Wed, Nov 25, 2009 12:15:28pm |
re: #242 SanFranciscoZionist
Someone's paying for those beds; the Canadian govt in some instances, the Canadian needing the care in some instances, but the Canadians aren't responsible for maintaining the facilities - the infrastructure costs, including the technologies relied upon for those treatments (particularly expensive when dealing with radiology) are underwritten by the US hospitals.
If the US hospitals weren't there, the Canadians would have to either build their own hospital facilities and undertake the costs of maintaining them, or their quality of care would decline.
| 248 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Wed, Nov 25, 2009 12:17:17pm |
re: #244 Racer X
OMG! Those dirty RINOs got to Racer. Quick! Circle the wagons!
/just messing with ya, bro
| 249 |
Bagua Wed, Nov 25, 2009 12:17:26pm |
OT (though not completely as the topic is turkeys)
Here is a list of CRU grants, there's money in that there data.
CRU grants active since January 2007
| 250 |
Aceofwhat? Wed, Nov 25, 2009 12:17:37pm |
re: #234 ausador
Comparing infant mortality rates across countries of relatively similar socioeconomic position is a worthless exercise. You end up measuring behavior, not health-care quality. My parents have practiced medicine in both countries. People in Canada, like people in the UK, wait far, far too long to be seen for routine procedures.
Focus on the quality of life in addition to the quantity. We don't want what Canada has, at least not the part where you're not allowed to pursue options outside of your 8-month, goverment-mandated waiting list.
| 251 |
borgcube Wed, Nov 25, 2009 12:17:55pm |
Wow, some of you really do go into deep preparation for a Thanksgiving meal. Boston Market works for me. Or a hotel brunch or something like that. I can't even microwave properly.
| 252 |
Sharmuta Wed, Nov 25, 2009 12:18:03pm |
re: #248 Slumbering Behemoth
I hope you have a nice Thanksgiving, {Sleepy B}.
| 253 |
SanFranciscoZionist Wed, Nov 25, 2009 12:18:48pm |
re: #247 lawhawk
Someone's paying for those beds; the Canadian govt in some instances, the Canadian needing the care in some instances, but the Canadians aren't responsible for maintaining the facilities - the infrastructure costs, including the technologies relied upon for those treatments (particularly expensive when dealing with radiology) are underwritten by the US hospitals.
If the US hospitals weren't there, the Canadians would have to either build their own hospital facilities and undertake the costs of maintaining them, or their quality of care would decline.
Fair enough, but I'm not sure that's enough of a reason to be telling them they have to dismantle their health-care system.
| 254 |
J.S. Wed, Nov 25, 2009 12:19:05pm |
re: #247 lawhawk
Wealthier Canadians (older Canadians in need of a hip transplant) aren't going to wait around for the 6 - 8 month waits...So, they'll cross the border and get the surgeries done in the States (and they'll pay out of pocket, without asking for Canada Health to pick up the tab). (There's also a growing trend which worries doctors here -- it's "medical tourism" -- ie, Canadians may go to 3rd world hospitals, and get a surgery done, cause it's cheaper than having it done in the States. The doctors here worry that the patients may return with life-long complications, which will then be treated by Canada's Health Care system (ie, adding a burden, etc.)
| 255 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Wed, Nov 25, 2009 12:19:14pm |
First he messes up the Pirates.
Then, this?
Two chalk marks for President Obama.
Board's still a little lopsided.
| 256 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Wed, Nov 25, 2009 12:20:33pm |
re: #252 Sharmuta
Same to you, Sharm. I will be starting the brine today, and firing up the BBQ tomorrow. Q-ed turkey is the best.
| 257 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Wed, Nov 25, 2009 12:21:32pm |
ToFurkies are defrosting... Mouth is watering...
Bring tomorrow on!
| 258 |
Racer X Wed, Nov 25, 2009 12:22:16pm |
re: #248 Slumbering Behemoth
OMG! Those dirty RINOs got to Racer. Quick! Circle the wagons!
/just messing with ya, bro
Heh.
I've been looking around and it seems to me that if these countries can do it better what the hell are we doing?
The citizens of these 5 countries seem happy with it:
Sick Around The World
I'm not saying we copy what they are doing - but there are certainly lessons to be learned. Our biggest problem is pride. We think we are always the best and our egos get in the way of change.
Oh God I'm gonna make myself puke!
| 259 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Wed, Nov 25, 2009 12:22:37pm |
re: #251 borgcube
"A man's gotta know his limitations."
-Harry Callahan
| 260 |
Killgore Trout Wed, Nov 25, 2009 12:22:47pm |
| 261 |
Mad Al-Jaffee Wed, Nov 25, 2009 12:23:23pm |
re: #251 borgcube
Usually my mother does most of the main meal (including a huge roast turkey) and I bring a smaller smoked turkey.
| 262 |
Obdicut Wed, Nov 25, 2009 12:24:17pm |
re: #241 lawhawk
Is your contention that those cases are really skewing the figures? Can you provide any support for that in the form of data or studies?
Do we send any patients to Canada for treatment?
re: #247 lawhawk
Someone's paying for those beds; the Canadian govt in some instances, the Canadian needing the care in some instances, but the Canadians aren't responsible for maintaining the facilities - the infrastructure costs, including the technologies relied upon for those treatments (particularly expensive when dealing with radiology) are underwritten by the US hospitals.
You're making it sound as though Canada doesn't make any contributions to the advancement of medical technologies for those treatments, which are part of those infrastructure costs.
You're also making it sound as though US hospitals charge the Canadian health care system, or the Canadian patients, less-than-cost for those procedures; is that what your claim is?
| 263 |
sattv4u2 Wed, Nov 25, 2009 12:24:38pm |
re: #260 Killgore Trout
From the White House YouTube page...
Preview of White House Turkey Pardoning
Heh.
How many months of meetings with his top culinary advisors did it take the The 0ne to come to this UNPRECEDENTED decision?
| 264 |
J.S. Wed, Nov 25, 2009 12:25:15pm |
re: #258 Racer X
I think the U.S. is the best system in the world (particularly in terms of medical research, treatment options, etc.) (There are "problems" I suppose with Insurance systems -- that's bumping people off because of "pre-existing conditions" etc., but that's the problem with the Insurance companies...not the Health Care providers.)
| 265 |
sattv4u2 Wed, Nov 25, 2009 12:26:07pm |
re: #261 Mad Al-Jaffee
Usually my mother does most of the main meal (including a huge roast turkey) and I bring a smaller smoked turkey.
Marlboros?
You could get the nicotine patch for the turkey, worked for a cousin of mine!
| 266 |
Sharmuta Wed, Nov 25, 2009 12:26:32pm |
re: #256 Slumbering Behemoth
Same to you, Sharm. I will be starting the brine today, and firing up the BBQ tomorrow. Q-ed turkey is the best.
Others are doing the cooking except for the cranberry relish I'll be making. Can't wait!
| 267 |
Buck Wed, Nov 25, 2009 12:26:33pm |
re: #258 Racer X
We think we are always the best and our egos get in the way of change.
Actually you are the best. Every country int he world uses the medical treatments, protocols and medicine DEVELOPED in the USA. Sure not 100%, but close enough.
The system you have now encourages development. Because of the capitalistic nature of your system. Even medical breakthroughs done in other countries are encouraged because they want to be able to sell in the USA.
| 268 |
Mad Al-Jaffee Wed, Nov 25, 2009 12:27:05pm |
I just got an email that I won two tickets to see The Road! And I know it's not some kind of scam since it's a contest I entered.
I enjoyed the book but read mixed reviews of the movie. I guess I'll be seeing the movie in the theater after all.
| 269 |
J.S. Wed, Nov 25, 2009 12:27:12pm |
re: #262 Obdicut
Do we send any patients to Canada for treatment?
That's hilarious...(sorry)...(just consider the population difference, OK? the U.S. has 10 times the number of people as Canada.)
| 270 |
Mad Al-Jaffee Wed, Nov 25, 2009 12:27:41pm |
re: #265 sattv4u2
Marlboros?
You could get the nicotine patch for the turkey, worked for a cousin of mine!
No, I use Macanudos or Cohibas.
| 271 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Wed, Nov 25, 2009 12:27:54pm |
re: #265 sattv4u2
I was trying to think of a "very large rolling papers" joke. But it was "smoked turkey" not "Smoking Turkey." Guess I'll just drink some Wild Turkey.
| 272 |
Racer X Wed, Nov 25, 2009 12:28:11pm |
re: #264 J.S.
I think the U.S. is the best system in the world (particularly in terms of medical research, treatment options, etc.) (There are "problems" I suppose with Insurance systems -- that's bumping people off because of "pre-existing conditions" etc., but that's the problem with the Insurance companies...not the Health Care providers.)
Bingo!
The problem is with the insurance companies.
What if the US gumbent became the insurance company? And negotiated prices - for every single procedure - up front? With renegotiations every year. And everyone paid in. Fail to pay in then you are on your own.
| 274 |
Killgore Trout Wed, Nov 25, 2009 12:29:00pm |
OWL!
| 275 |
Sharmuta Wed, Nov 25, 2009 12:29:13pm |
re: #271 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
I was trying to think of a "very large rolling papers" joke. But it was "smoked turkey" not "Smoking Turkey." Guess I'll just drink some Wild Turkey.
You're thinking of stoned turkey.
| 276 |
Vicious Babushka Wed, Nov 25, 2009 12:29:28pm |
Well, it took a mumps outbreak at the school where my son teaches, but my daughter-in-law is getting my grandkids vaccinated.
| 277 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Wed, Nov 25, 2009 12:29:44pm |
| 278 |
wrenchwench Wed, Nov 25, 2009 12:31:14pm |
re: #260 Killgore Trout
From the White House YouTube page...
Preview of White House Turkey Pardoning[Video]Heh.
That's the best tour of the White House I've had!
| 280 |
Digital Display Wed, Nov 25, 2009 12:31:28pm |
re: #268 Mad Al-Jaffee
I just got an email that I won two tickets to see The Road! And I know it's not some kind of scam since it's a contest I entered.
I enjoyed the book but read mixed reviews of the movie. I guess I'll be seeing the movie in the theater after all.
I've yet to read any good reviews...But then again I never agree with most movie critics...It all went down hill when the English Patient won the Oscar..
Are you kidding me?
| 281 |
Mad Al-Jaffee Wed, Nov 25, 2009 12:31:33pm |
I think from now on I'll just say that I'm cooking a turkey in my Big Green Egg grill.
| 282 |
MrSilverDragon Wed, Nov 25, 2009 12:31:49pm |
Well folks, it's time to head out for the holidays. Hope y'all have a great turkey day, and get to spend some quality time with friends and loved ones.
Be safe, y'all!
| 283 |
sattv4u2 Wed, Nov 25, 2009 12:31:58pm |
re: #272 Racer X
Bingo!
The problem is with the insurance companies.
What if the US gumbent became the insurance company? And negotiated prices - for every single procedure - up front? With renegotiations every year. And everyone paid in. Fail to pay in then you are on your own.
CAN OF WORMS
What if you cannot pay (different than "fail to pay")
Who pays what? Graduated per income level?
Any incentive for lifestyle chnages? (cut those trips to Mickey D's from 3 times a day to once a month and you get 10% off? How to regulate things like that??)
What is covered? Are all 'policies" the same? As a 56 year old man do I have to pay for pregnancy tests? Mammograms?
| 284 |
J.S. Wed, Nov 25, 2009 12:32:42pm |
re: #272 Racer X
Personally, I suspect that a government run system would so undercut the private insurers, that it would act as a magnet -- and soon, everyone (or the bulk of Americans) would be under the government system...and, then, you'd get mediocre or substandard care for everyone...(universal care, but also lousy care.)
| 285 |
Killgore Trout Wed, Nov 25, 2009 12:33:03pm |
re: #279 winemaker
Nontroversy Watch: CRU-Gate
Already been discussed.
| 286 |
borgcube Wed, Nov 25, 2009 12:33:44pm |
re: #259 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Just never got into the whole food thing. I enjoy eating and have my favorites of course, but it's down there on the list for me. Sometimes I forget to eat and it makes my wife cuckoo. She's got some internal "time for food" clock that doesn't give her too much leeway. If she goes too far past the food alarm, horns come out of her head and I'm in deep trouble.
| 287 |
Racer X Wed, Nov 25, 2009 12:33:58pm |
re: #283 sattv4u2
Check out the Frontline videos i posted above. you bring up some very good questions. I think we can solve those problems. but like every insurance policy - the more people we get in the system, the cheaper it is.
We can do better.
| 288 |
Killgore Trout Wed, Nov 25, 2009 12:34:07pm |
re: #281 Mad Al-Jaffee
I think from now on I'll just say that I'm cooking a turkey in my Big Green Egg grill.
I love my Big Green Egg. I'm doing a chicken in it tomorrow.
| 289 |
Mad Al-Jaffee Wed, Nov 25, 2009 12:34:28pm |
re: #280 HoosierHoops
I've yet to read any good reviews...But then again I never agree with most movie critics...It all went down hill when the English Patient won the Oscar..
Are you kidding me?
Even worse - Forrest Gump beating Pulp Fiction for best picture. But I haven't cared about any of those awards in a long time.
| 290 |
lawhawk Wed, Nov 25, 2009 12:34:46pm |
re: #262 Obdicut
You're also making it sound as though US hospitals charge the Canadian health care system, or the Canadian patients, less-than-cost for those procedures; is that what your claim is?
Nothing of the sort. The costs are incurred by the US hospital and billed to someone - whether the Canadian citizen or govt picks it up. It will be at the cost set by the hospital, and not necessarily at a Medicaid/Medicare mandated level either. It may be a cost that actually reflects the true cost of care.
The problem is that the Canadian govt has no incentive to provide additional care at the same level as the US hospital just across the border at their own hospital if the US hospital exists. That means that they can shift the burdens onto the US hospital and don't have to incur the carrying costs.
| 291 |
Racer X Wed, Nov 25, 2009 12:35:10pm |
re: #284 J.S.
Personally, I suspect that a government run system would so undercut the private insurers, that it would act as a magnet -- and soon, everyone (or the bulk of Americans) would be under the government system...and, then, you'd get mediocre or substandard care for everyone...(universal care, but also lousy care.)
You are right - a US gubment system would virtually eliminate private insurance.
| 292 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Wed, Nov 25, 2009 12:35:17pm |
| 293 |
subsailor68 Wed, Nov 25, 2009 12:35:35pm |
re: #272 Racer X
Bingo!
The problem is with the insurance companies.
What if the US gumbent became the insurance company? And negotiated prices - for every single procedure - up front? With renegotiations every year. And everyone paid in. Fail to pay in then you are on your own.
Hi RaceX. Well, we actually do have a model to look at with respect to that. It's Medicare. The program is, for all intents and purposes, already bankrupt (although that's denied by pols) with an estimated $37 trillion dollar unfunded liability. In addition, its methods for requiring physicians to track and report are an "unfunded" mandate on docs. The reimbursement levels are such that doctors (particularly in my town where we have a large retirement community) are refusing new Medicare patients and/or closing their practices.
Not to say that we shouldn't be looking at ways to fix problems, but the Medicare model is similar in many ways to what's being proposed in both the House and Senate, and I fear the ultimate result - if a bill like these is passed - will be extremely unpleasant for patients, and add tremendously to our debt over time.
| 294 |
sattv4u2 Wed, Nov 25, 2009 12:36:28pm |
re: #287 Racer X
Check out the Frontline videos i posted above. you bring up some very good questions. I think we can solve those problems. but like every insurance policy - the more people we get in the system, the cheaper it is.
We can do better.
Yes we can, but NOT run 100% by the government as you posited. There IS a place for gov't assistance for the indigent and those that have falen on hard times. But to create an entire new beuracracy out of whole cloth is not proficient
| 295 |
Racer X Wed, Nov 25, 2009 12:37:47pm |
re: #290 lawhawk
The problem is that the Canadian govt has no incentive to provide additional care at the same level as the US hospital just across the border at their own hospital if the US hospital exists. That means that they can shift the burdens onto the US hospital and don't have to incur the carrying costs.
Correct.
And this is also why REALLY GOOD care in America is so damn expensive - we are subsidizing other countries deficiencies. What if we changed our system so it forced those from other countries back to their own system?
Our costs go down - their costs go up a bit.
| 296 |
sattv4u2 Wed, Nov 25, 2009 12:37:49pm |
re: #288 Killgore Trout
I love my Big Green Egg. I'm doing a chicken in it tomorrow.
I thought that was only legal in Alabama!?!?
| 297 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Wed, Nov 25, 2009 12:38:18pm |
re: #291 Racer X
You are right - a US gubment system would virtually eliminate private insurance.
Then the Justice Department's Anti-Trust division will have to get involved.
| 298 |
J.S. Wed, Nov 25, 2009 12:39:10pm |
re: #283 sattv4u2
Then, of course, you get into the problems with respect to doctor's payments -- are mediocre surgeons with lousy records to be paid the same as superior ones?
| 299 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Wed, Nov 25, 2009 12:39:46pm |
I was thinking, "Which came first? KT or the Chicken in the Egg."
| 300 |
sattv4u2 Wed, Nov 25, 2009 12:40:08pm |
re: #298 J.S.
Then, of course, you get into the problems with respect to doctor's payments -- are mediocre surgeons with lousy records to be paid the same as superior ones?
As I said ,, once you open that can of worms ,,,
| 301 |
Racer X Wed, Nov 25, 2009 12:40:27pm |
re: #294 sattv4u2
Yes we can, but NOT run 100% by the government as you posited. There IS a place for gov't assistance for the indigent and those that have falen on hard times. But to create an entire new beuracracy out of whole cloth is not proficient
Check out what those 5 countries are doing - then ask yourself if Americans can do it one better?
Keep in mind that in those 5 countries NO ONE loses their house because of high medical costs.
We can do better.
| 302 |
sattv4u2 Wed, Nov 25, 2009 12:40:55pm |
| 303 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Wed, Nov 25, 2009 12:41:34pm |
Happy Thanksgiving Lizards!
Gotta start prep work on the bird, laters.
| 304 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Wed, Nov 25, 2009 12:41:53pm |
re: #302 sattv4u2
You forced my hand, sir. (299)
| 305 |
Sharmuta Wed, Nov 25, 2009 12:42:14pm |
You know... I'm starting to think this pardon was all a publicity stunt! ///
| 306 |
freetoken Wed, Nov 25, 2009 12:42:33pm |
To show how the denial-o-sphere likes to use whatever tools they can get their hands to to derail the work of hard-working scientists, get a load of this:
Competitive Enterprise Institute intends to sue blogger over moderation policy
[CEI seeks documents] relating to the content, importance, or propriety of workday-hour posts or entries by GISS/NASA employee Gavin A. Schmidt on the weblog or "blog" RealClimate, which is owned by the advocacy Environmental Media Services and was started as an effort to defend the debunked "Hockey Stick" that is so central to the CRU files. RealClimate.org is implicated in the leaked files and expressly offered as a tool to be used "in any way you think would be helpful" to a certain advocacy campaign, including an assertion of Schmidt's active involvement in, e.g., delaying and/or screening out unhelpful input by "skeptics" attempting to comment on claims made on the website.
GASP! You mean, they actually moderate comments over on Realclimate? The nerve of them... moderating comments. What's next, actually expecting people to make sense?
| 307 |
lawhawk Wed, Nov 25, 2009 12:44:07pm |
re: #298 J.S.
Some top doctors simply don't take insurance because of the cost of dealing with insurance; billing adjustments, waiting for payments, etc.
For them, it's easier to operate as a cash business - charging a set amount per visit. And some doctors, who want to provide their own version of assistance to patients find themselves in trouble with state law. In NY, there was a doc who wanted to provide a payment plan that allowed patients get doctors visits and a defined level of care. The state said he couldn't do it because it was akin to insurance and he would have to go through all the hoops to become an insurer.
Who loses in that bargain? The patients.
| 308 |
Mad Al-Jaffee Wed, Nov 25, 2009 12:46:08pm |
re: #296 sattv4u2
I thought that was only legal in Alabama!?!?
Have you ever seen Pink Flamingos? That was filmed in Maryland.
| 309 |
J.S. Wed, Nov 25, 2009 12:46:56pm |
re: #300 sattv4u2
(another problem with a Federal Insurance program, is the potential for abuse and fraud...I wonder if in those Senate and House bills the issue of fraud prevention is addressed at all?)
| 310 |
Aceofwhat? Wed, Nov 25, 2009 12:47:25pm |
re: #300 sattv4u2
Open worms, get centipedes for free. How do you choose against the lousy ones when you aren't free to choose...?
| 311 |
Racer X Wed, Nov 25, 2009 12:48:12pm |
America pays 16% of our GDP towards health care now.
Germany, UK, Taiwan, Japan, and Switzerland pay less than half of that. And their citizens (for the most part) are very happy with the health care they receive.
We can do better.
| 312 |
sattv4u2 Wed, Nov 25, 2009 12:49:09pm |
re: #309 J.S.
(another problem with a Federal Insurance program, is the potential for abuse and fraud...I wonder if in those Senate and House bills the issue of fraud prevention is addressed at all?)
Well,, they DO say they'll fund part of the bill by eliminating all the fraud in MediCare
MY question is, if they know there's that much fruad there why do they have to wait to pass a national health bill TO eliminate it?
Tell ya what, Nancy, Harry and The 0ne
Eliminate the fraud, put THAT money aside , then we'll talk !
| 313 |
subsailor68 Wed, Nov 25, 2009 12:49:28pm |
re: #307 lawhawk
Hi lawhawk!
Some top doctors simply don't take insurance because of the cost of dealing with insurance; billing adjustments, waiting for payments, etc.
That is so true! I know it's a bit anecdotal, but I just went through some vascular surgery (with all the attendant tests, support, hospital, etc.) and know all my doctors personally. Most, if not all, have run into incredible bureaucratic snags (both private and Medicare) that have resulted in two major financial issues for them: first, the cost of having folks deal over and over again with the payers (e.g. adjustments, denied submissions) and second, the issue of cash-flow. They end up "floating" either the insurance company or the Federal government.
| 314 |
Mad Al-Jaffee Wed, Nov 25, 2009 12:49:29pm |
| 315 |
Racer X Wed, Nov 25, 2009 12:50:41pm |
A friend was in the hospital recently and his insurance company paid $8 per Tylenol, and over $1800 for an MRI.
I think we need to look at other options.
| 316 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Wed, Nov 25, 2009 12:51:13pm |
re: #314 Mad Al-Jaffee
Uncle Daddy doesn't think that is the least bit funny.
| 318 |
Mad Al-Jaffee Wed, Nov 25, 2009 12:51:55pm |
re: #316 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Uncle Daddy doesn't think that is the least bit funny.
Yeah, I think he downdinged me.
| 319 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Wed, Nov 25, 2009 12:52:53pm |
re: #318 Mad Al-Jaffee
My parents are both from WV. Totally acceptable for me to make those jokes.
| 320 |
sattv4u2 Wed, Nov 25, 2009 12:54:22pm |
re: #315 Racer X
A friend was in the hospital recently and his insurance company paid $8 per Tylenol, and over $1800 for an MRI.
I think we need to look at other options.
So letting the gov't take over the cost system will lower the Tylenol/ MRI to $.50 and $100, respectively
SO ,, what happens to the Tylenol manufacturer, supplier, distributor, shipper, and once it gets to the hospital the loading dock worker, the pharmacist, the nurse that administers it and the doctor that perscribes it?
| 321 |
freetoken Wed, Nov 25, 2009 12:54:47pm |
re: #315 Racer X
A friend was in the hospital recently and his insurance company paid $8 per Tylenol, and over $1800 for an MRI.
That was $.05 for the actual medicine, and $7.95 for buying it, storing it, and then dispensing it by a certified person.
If only they had told the patient to buy/bring their own Tylenol everyone would have been better off.
I suspect the hospital's defense would be that in case of being sued they have to be in 100% control of the process.
I propose that we can't afford to have large centralized bureaucracies like hospitals try to be in charge of what any mentally capable patient can do for themselves.
| 322 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Wed, Nov 25, 2009 12:55:16pm |
| 323 |
J.S. Wed, Nov 25, 2009 12:55:35pm |
re: #312 sattv4u2
That sounds like so much yak -- as in "We're gonna eliminate illegal break-ins worldwide! Yeah, that's it! and just imagine -- Just Imagine! the amount of money that will save in court cases! The amount of money saved will be in the Billions! no, wait, make that Trillions! Yeah, that's it!" (meanwhile no mention of how precisely the break-ins will be stopped. Ditto for the claims about "saving" all that money wasted in fraudulent claims and never a word about how, precisely, are the frauds to be prevented? how is it to be done? and if it's able to be done some time in the future, why isn't it being done now?)
| 325 |
sattv4u2 Wed, Nov 25, 2009 12:57:57pm |
re: #321 freetoken
we can't afford to have large centralized bureaucracies like hospitals
You'd prefer "small localized bureacracies" like the Federal gov't,?
umm,,, ,, huh !!?!?
| 326 |
subsailor68 Wed, Nov 25, 2009 12:58:28pm |
re: #311 Racer X
America pays 16% of our GDP towards health care now.
Germany, UK, Taiwan, Japan, and Switzerland pay less than half of that. And their citizens (for the most part) are very happy with the health care they receive.
We can do better.
Actually, the health care industry is about 1/6 (or 16%) of our GDP. That isn't the same thing as saying we're paying 1/6 of our GDP into health care per se. Companies in that industry provide good paying jobs, investment opportunities, pay taxes, and create products/provide services. The health insurance and pharmaceutical companies are only a part of the overall segment.
| 327 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Wed, Nov 25, 2009 12:59:46pm |
My battery is about dead, nowhere to plug in.
See y'all later.
| 328 |
Bagua Wed, Nov 25, 2009 1:01:27pm |
re: #244 Racer X
I'm starting to rethink my stance on health care. The more I look at it, it seems that having the U.S. government act as the insurance carrier is the best option.
Too many Americans go into serious debt over health care expenses. I think we can do better.
What you are missing is that all of those other countries rely on the US for drug development. They do not introduce new drugs, they take advantage of the US system for that. Remove the profit motive and the US will become the same as the rest.
| 329 |
sattv4u2 Wed, Nov 25, 2009 1:01:45pm |
re: #301 Racer X
From your link
But the Taiwanese are spending too little to sustain their health care system, according to Princeton's Tsung-mei Cheng, who advised the Taiwanese government. "As we speak, the government is borrowing from banks to pay what there isn't enough to pay the providers," she told FRONTLINE.
How long until that "better system" crashes??
| 330 |
Bagua Wed, Nov 25, 2009 1:02:59pm |
re: #311 Racer X
America pays 16% of our GDP towards health care now.
Germany, UK, Taiwan, Japan, and Switzerland pay less than half of that. And their citizens (for the most part) are very happy with the health care they receive.
We can do better.
They are happy to be leaching off of the US medical industry for innovation and drug development.
And to say they are happy in the UK with the NHS is bullshit.
| 331 |
freetoken Wed, Nov 25, 2009 1:04:08pm |
re: #325 sattv4u2
You'd prefer "small localized bureacracies" like the Federal gov't,?
Did I say that?
| 332 |
Racer X Wed, Nov 25, 2009 1:05:00pm |
re: #330 Bagua
They are happy to be leaching off of the US medical industry for innovation and drug development.
And to say they are happy in the UK with the NHS is bullshit.
What I said was "for the most part".
The point I am making is we can do better. I'm keeping an open mind about it. If that means tear it down and start over from scratch - I'll look at that.
| 333 |
sattv4u2 Wed, Nov 25, 2009 1:07:11pm |
re: #331 freetoken
Did I say that?
No ,, you DID say we can't afford to have large centralized bureaucracies like hospitals try to be in charge of what any mentally capable patient can do for themselves."
If there is a public option, you WILL have a large centralized bureaucracies of the governmnet be in charge of what any mentally capable patient can do for themselves. Once health care is "free", people will be going to doctors, hospitals and clinics to get their toe nails clipped (metaphore)
| 334 |
Bagua Wed, Nov 25, 2009 1:07:27pm |
re: #315 Racer X
A friend was in the hospital recently and his insurance company paid $8 per Tylenol, and over $1800 for an MRI.
I think we need to look at other options.
Good idea. If your friend was in the UK he would not have to pay $1,800* for his MRI, but he would have to sit on a six month waiting list. Then a waiting list to see a specialist, if available. Then if he needs surgery? Surprise, another waiting list.
And to compare costs for the direct care is misleading, the UK patients pay for everything through taxation, it is not free. Part of why they have lower costs is because they have a completely different legal system, they don't have the huge malpractise insurance and payouts to deal with.
| 335 |
Cathypop Wed, Nov 25, 2009 1:07:47pm |
Time to load up the truck and head out for some Turkey Celebration!
Everyone have a great Thanksgiving. May you all enjoy great food (even tofurkey) watch lots of football, and have a great time with family and friends.
| 336 |
Bagua Wed, Nov 25, 2009 1:10:19pm |
re: #332 Racer X
What I said was "for the most part".
The point I am making is we can do better. I'm keeping an open mind about it. If that means tear it down and start over from scratch - I'll look at that.
"For the most part" is also inaccurate. What they are is resigned to it, they suffer it and generally don't make official complaints because they know it is a complete waste of time. Also, they accept things like waiting lists, primitive facilities, foreign doctors with poor English, and the fact the GPs treat things specialist should, as normal. They have the system they do so they have nothing else to compare it with.
| 337 |
sattv4u2 Wed, Nov 25, 2009 1:11:03pm |
re: #332 Racer X
What I said was "for the most part".
The point I am making is we can do better. I'm keeping an open mind about it. If that means tear it down and start over from scratch - I'll look at that.
I agree that we CAN do better
I disagree about start over from scratch
As we speak, my Explorer sits in my driveway unusable
The battery died. I can either go to a Ford (or other) dealer and buy a new vehicle (start from scratch) OR fix whats broken with my otherwise perfectly good one
NOW ,,, if the "gov't" is a paying ,, NEWBIE FOR ME
But seeing that i'm paying, I think I'll stop at Pep Boys on the way home and buy a battery!
| 338 |
Bagua Wed, Nov 25, 2009 1:13:54pm |
re: #337 sattv4u2
I agree that we CAN do better
I disagree about start over from scratch
[...]
Why would we even consider starting from scratch when the US system is the worlds finest? People come all over the world to America for treatment, from countries like the UK and Canada were it would have been "free" yet inferior.
| 339 |
McSpiff Wed, Nov 25, 2009 1:15:02pm |
re: #336 Bagua
"For the most part" is also inaccurate. What they are is resigned to it, they suffer it and generally don't make official complaints because they know it is a complete waste of time. Also, they accept things like waiting lists, primitive facilities, foreign doctors with poor English, and the fact the GPs treat things specialist should, as normal. They have the system they do so they have nothing else to compare it with.
Honest question, have you ever traveled outside of the US? Because this describes literally no Canadian hospital I've ever been in.
| 340 |
ryannon Wed, Nov 25, 2009 1:15:30pm |
re: #328 Bagua
What you are missing is that all of those other countries rely on the US for drug development. They do not introduce new drugs, they take advantage of the US system for that. Remove the profit motive and the US will become the same as the rest.
Not exactly true: both Switzerland and Germany (not to mention France, Japan, the UK, Denmark, Sweden and even India) have world-class pharma companies doing cutting-edge R&D:
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]
| 341 |
Racer X Wed, Nov 25, 2009 1:16:12pm |
If America was overthrown tomorrow and you became king, how would you build an infrastructure to deal with health care for your people?
| 342 |
sattv4u2 Wed, Nov 25, 2009 1:17:08pm |
re: #338 Bagua
Why would we even consider starting from scratch when the US system is the worlds finest? People come all over the world to America for treatment, from countries like the UK and Canada were it would have been "free" yet inferior.
Because 50% of Americans want "free stuff". 50% of Americans end up paying zero income taxes (hence the high numbers that agree with thr tax the rich scheme to pay for this)
When 50% of Americans want "free stuff" they only have to convince 1 more percent to make it vox populi!
THATS why our founders insured (pun intended) that this was NOT a pure democracy, knowing that a pure democracy is two wolves and one sheep voting on whats for lunch!
| 343 |
sattv4u2 Wed, Nov 25, 2009 1:18:26pm |
re: #341 Racer X
If America was overthrown tomorrow and you became king, how would you build an infrastructure to deal with health care for your people?
A) I would NOT have it as a benefit as part of employemnt
B) see #1
I'll get back to you about the rest, as I have to leave now
| 344 |
ryannon Wed, Nov 25, 2009 1:19:00pm |
re: #341 Racer X
If America was overthrown tomorrow and you became king, how would you build an infrastructure to deal with health care for your people?
Paging Doctor Mugabe! Paging Doctor Mugabe!
| 345 |
Racer X Wed, Nov 25, 2009 1:19:57pm |
| 346 |
Obdicut Wed, Nov 25, 2009 1:20:04pm |
re: #290 lawhawk
Nothing of the sort. The costs are incurred by the US hospital and billed to someone - whether the Canadian citizen or govt picks it up. It will be at the cost set by the hospital, and not necessarily at a Medicaid/Medicare mandated level either. It may be a cost that actually reflects the true cost of care.
The problem is that the Canadian govt has no incentive to provide additional care at the same level as the US hospital just across the border at their own hospital if the US hospital exists. That means that they can shift the burdens onto the US hospital and don't have to incur the carrying costs.
I'm sorry, but how is that a problem, exactly?
If the hospital is charging at cost or above cost for the procedure, what burden is being shifted?
| 347 |
sattv4u2 Wed, Nov 25, 2009 1:20:16pm |
re: #344 ryannon
Paging Doctor Mugabe! Paging Doctor Mugabe!
Bettre (but not by much) Doctor Mengele
| 348 |
Aceofwhat? Wed, Nov 25, 2009 1:21:09pm |
re: #339 McSpiff
Funny. I lived in Belgium for two years and it describes most facilities that i visited.
Dinde.
| 349 |
sattv4u2 Wed, Nov 25, 2009 1:21:25pm |
re: #345 Racer X
I posted a response to your video FROM your link
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]
Recipe for disaster
| 350 |
sattv4u2 Wed, Nov 25, 2009 1:22:16pm |
re: #348 Aceofwhat?
Funny. I lived in Belgium for two years and it describes most facilities that i visited.
Dinde.
Dinde? Is he realted to Monty Pythons Dinsdale !?!?!
| 351 |
McSpiff Wed, Nov 25, 2009 1:22:22pm |
re: #348 Aceofwhat?
Fair enough then, I won't argue that Single Payer is a silver bullet, but I won't stand for people painting it as somalia-in-a-hospital either.
| 352 |
ryannon Wed, Nov 25, 2009 1:23:04pm |
re: #347 sattv4u2
Bettre (but not by much) Doctor Mengele
Latter monster not a joking matter for me.
| 353 |
sattv4u2 Wed, Nov 25, 2009 1:23:58pm |
re: #346 Obdicut
I'm sorry, but how is that a problem, exactly?
If the hospital is charging at cost or above cost for the procedure, what burden is being shifted?
I beleive that the point was that the Canadian mortality and negative helath issues numbers are skewed because the "tougher" and more high risk cases are coming to the USA
| 355 |
Racer X Wed, Nov 25, 2009 1:25:03pm |
The re: #349 sattv4u2
I posted a response to your video FROM your link
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]Recipe for disaster
Thanks!
Yes this could be a recipe for disaster. Like Medicare currently is.
Taiwan could simply raise taxes to pay the increased costs, or offer fewer services. You get what you pay for.
| 356 |
ryannon Wed, Nov 25, 2009 1:25:14pm |
re: #350 sattv4u2
Dinde? Is he realted to Monty Pythons Dinsdale !?!?!
'Dinde' is the French word for turkey.
Subliminal Thanksgiving post.
| 357 |
J.S. Wed, Nov 25, 2009 1:25:35pm |
re: #346 Obdicut
It's a "problem" when/if you're trying to compare costs of Medical Care between the two countries.
| 358 |
ryannon Wed, Nov 25, 2009 1:28:34pm |
re: #357 J.S.
It's a "problem" when/if you're trying to compare costs of Medical Care between the two countries.
Not to mention national mentalities.
What 'works' in one country won't necessarily work in another.
| 360 |
Obdicut Wed, Nov 25, 2009 1:29:25pm |
re: #357 J.S.
It's a "problem" when/if you're trying to compare costs of Medical Care between the two countries.
I'm pointing out that if the hospital is charging above cost, then the US should be on the winning side of that deal, economically.
re: #353 sattv4u2
I beleive that the point was that the Canadian mortality and negative helath issues numbers are skewed because the "tougher" and more high risk cases are coming to the USA
I've yet to see any data that shows that. I've heard it argued, but never actually backed up with anything beyond newspaper articles.
I can easily believe that there are lots of cases coming to the US to one of our stellar facilities; I'm in doubt, however, if those cases are large enough in number to matter.
| 361 |
McSpiff Wed, Nov 25, 2009 1:31:39pm |
re: #353 sattv4u2
I hear this reported again and again, but I've seen no statistics to back this. I've met one child who came to Canada from Vietnam hoping to get treated by specialists at the Children's Hospital in Toronto, but ended up getting treated in Boston. Never met a Canadian citizen who had to seek treatment in America. I know many Canadians who have been injured or fallen ill while in the States and immediately rushed home to Canada.
I'm not arguing for a Canadian style system for America. I honestly couldn't care less what system you use. I'll never live in a country where my healthcare is totally tied to my employment (I find Canada goes too far with this too), but that's my personal choice.
| 362 |
sattv4u2 Wed, Nov 25, 2009 1:32:35pm |
re: #355 Racer X
The
Thanks!Yes this could be a recipe for disaster. Like Medicare currently is.
Taiwan could simply raise taxes to pay the increased costs, or offer fewer services. You get what you pay for.
And now that services there are "free" and aplenty, you think the populace will approve of higher taxes and/ or less services?
When we lived in Boston, my wife used to complain about the pigeons that would populate our backyard. One day I caught her throwing bread out there. I asked what she was doing. "Feeding the birds" she replied. I said "well what about the pigeons you're complaining about"? She said she was feeding the OTHER birds. She hated the pigeons.
| 363 |
ryannon Wed, Nov 25, 2009 1:33:02pm |
re: #348 Aceofwhat?
Funny. I lived in Belgium for two years and it describes most facilities that i visited.
Dinde.
Visited? Under what circumstances? You mean as a patient, right? In what cities?
Just askin'...
| 364 |
sattv4u2 Wed, Nov 25, 2009 1:33:25pm |
re: #360 Obdicut
I've yet to see any data that shows that. I've heard it argued, but never actually backed up with anything beyond newspaper articles.
I can easily believe that there are lots of cases coming to the US to one of our stellar facilities; I'm in doubt, however, if those cases are large enough in number to matter.
Can I quote you on that?
((hey ,, I'm an asshole , what can I say!!)
| 365 |
Obdicut Wed, Nov 25, 2009 1:34:17pm |
re: #364 sattv4u2
Can I quote you on that?
((hey ,, I'm an asshole , what can I say!!)
Um, sure. Why would I mind you quoting me on that?
I'd be happy to be proved wrong; it'd mean our medical system is in better shape than I thought.
| 366 |
sattv4u2 Wed, Nov 25, 2009 1:35:48pm |
re: #365 Obdicut
Um, sure. Why would I mind you quoting me on that?
I'd be happy to be proved wrong; it'd mean our medical system is in better shape than I thought.
Well ,, ,you stated that you saw no stats on it, but had read about it in news accounts. what was their source, or did they just make the story up out of whole cloth?
| 367 |
ryannon Wed, Nov 25, 2009 1:37:56pm |
re: #362 sattv4u2
And now that services there are "free" and aplenty, you think the populace will approve of higher taxes and/ or less services?
When we lived in Boston, my wife used to complain about the pigeons that would populate our backyard. One day I caught her throwing bread out there. I asked what she was doing. "Feeding the birds" she replied. I said "well what about the pigeons you're complaining about"? She said she was feeding the OTHER birds. She hated the pigeons.
I live with a pigeon. Yep, a live-in pigeon named Poopzilla. Walter lives with Maisy the Parrot, I live with Poopzilla. Tous les gouts sont dans la nature...
| 368 |
J.S. Wed, Nov 25, 2009 1:37:57pm |
re: #341 Racer X
If America was overthrown tomorrow and you became king, how would you build an infrastructure to deal with health care for your people?
Canada's Health Act, which stipulates 5 principles/criteria which must be adhered to: 1) public administration [means not-for-profit], 2) comprehensiveness [means that a patient will be treated for a wide-range of conditions, covering all medically necessary problems], 3) universality [means all Canadians or residents of Canada are covered], 4) portability [meaning that a Canadian can travel from province to province/territory and be covered], and 5)accessibility [meaning there will be no discrimination in terms of age, income, health status, etc.] This is further detailed here.
| 369 |
Obdicut Wed, Nov 25, 2009 1:38:22pm |
re: #366 sattv4u2
Well ,, ,you stated that you saw no stats on it, but had read about it in news accounts. what was their source, or did they just make the story up out of whole cloth?
I don't know what their sources were. I don't tend to trust newspaper reports, especially on heavily data driven or technical subjects.
I'm not sure what you're driving at, exactly? As I said, I'm sure that there are Canadian patients coming to the US for treatment, since we have world-class treatment centers here. What I'm wondering is if they're doing so in numbers large enough to affect the data in any significant way. And if they are doing so, that's nifty, because it means our problem is smaller than we thought.
| 370 |
sattv4u2 Wed, Nov 25, 2009 1:40:32pm |
re: #367 ryannon
I live with a pigeon. Yep, a live-in pigeon named Poopzilla. Walter lives with Maisy the Parrot, I live with Poopzilla. Tous les gouts sont dans la nature...
I have two dogs. Einstien and McDuff
| 371 |
sattv4u2 Wed, Nov 25, 2009 1:43:04pm |
re: #369 Obdicut
I'm not sure what you're driving at, exactly
You were questioning a post by LawHawk. I was putting what I (think) he meant into perspective.
You seemed to have thought he was saying the US hospitals were somehow at a financial loss taking in out of country patients. He was not
| 373 |
Obdicut Wed, Nov 25, 2009 1:44:22pm |
| 374 |
sattv4u2 Wed, Nov 25, 2009 1:46:13pm |
| 375 |
J.S. Wed, Nov 25, 2009 1:48:10pm |
re: #365 Obdicut
Frankly, I find the whole issue of attempting to compare countries (with the notion of concluding: "Our system is superior to your system!") spurious and (ultimately) a silly waste of time. There are simply far too many historical factors, geographical factors, population factors, value factors, financial factors, etc., etc., etc. with each individual country to try and make some sweeping, over-generalized (and typically false) comparisons. The best that can be done, is consider other countries approaches (not that you're going to immediately exclaim: "it's Superior!" or "it's Inferior!") but to look at each one and attempt to see the pros and the cons of each system. And, for each system, this is the case. There are pros and there are cons for each system. (and I'm certainly not advocating that Americans adopt a Canadian system, nor that Canadians need to adopt an American one.)
| 376 |
Obdicut Wed, Nov 25, 2009 1:53:56pm |
re: #375 J.S.
Frankly, I find the whole issue of attempting to compare countries (with the notion of concluding: "Our system is superior to your system!") spurious and (ultimately) a silly waste of time. There are simply far too many historical factors, geographical factors, population factors, value factors, financial factors, etc., etc., etc. with each individual country to try and make some sweeping, over-generalized (and typically false) comparisons. The best that can be done, is consider other countries approaches (not that you're going to immediately exclaim: "it's Superior!" or "it's Inferior!") but to look at each one and attempt to see the pros and the cons of each system. And, for each system, this is the case. There are pros and there are cons for each system. (and I'm certainly not advocating that Americans adopt a Canadian system, nor that Canadians need to adopt an American one.)
I agree with that totally, though I do think that you can, after surveying enough systems, also see that certain approaches carry with them certain deficits and advantages-- that there are recognizable patterns that cut across geopolitical factors. It could be illusory, and you could well be right.
I've been sad that the fee-for-service model of payment hasn't come under more criticism and discussion; I think it's one of the most vital problems with our health care system, both for us and for doctors.
| 377 |
J.S. Wed, Nov 25, 2009 2:10:34pm |
re: #376 Obdicut
Yes. I think you get trade-offs...and it's ultimately (in democracies anyway) up to the people to determine just what those trade-offs are going to be...(Another thing about the U.S. system -- one of the more obvious aspects -- is the sheer lack of uniformity in the U.S.-- every state has different laws, different expectations, differing methods for insuring patients, etc. So, I wonder about having yet another layer -- at the federal level -- of Bureaucratic Overlay on top of what's already there...no wonder the documents/House/Senate bills are getting into the thousands upon thousands of pages...)
| 378 |
SixDegrees Wed, Nov 25, 2009 2:33:29pm |
re: #311 Racer X
America pays 16% of our GDP towards health care now.
Germany, UK, Taiwan, Japan, and Switzerland pay less than half of that. And their citizens (for the most part) are very happy with the health care they receive.
We can do better.
There's a problem with such comparisons that makes them meaningless. Other countries with socialized medicine systems report the costs incurred within those systems - in other words, the cost of services the government actually pays for. In the US, there is no such handy central reporting agency, so costs are calculated based on hospital, clinic and private practice billings. This captures not only the cost of the routine medical procedures other countries pay for, but also adds in the cost of every tummy tuck, liposuction, botox injection, dick and boob implant, face lift, ass tuck and varicose vein stripping performed. These procedures never appear in such tabulations from elsewhere, because they aren't covered by government health care programs. They aren't covered by insurance payments in the United States, either, but as noted that's not how US costs are arrived at.
There are other major problems with such comparisons because of differences in reporting standards, differing definitions of things like obesity and stillbirth and so on.
Realistic comparisons may be possible, but they are rarely if ever done. When attempts are made to adjust costs based on these factors, however, the differences narrow and nearly vanish.
| 379 |
Obdicut Wed, Nov 25, 2009 2:36:25pm |
re: #378 SixDegrees
Medical expense reporting is often broken down in ways that clearly shows cosmetic surgery separated out from the rest.
Can you provide support for this statement of yours?
Realistic comparisons may be possible, but they are rarely if ever done. When attempts are made to adjust costs based on these factors, however, the differences narrow and nearly vanish.
| 380 |
Bagua Wed, Nov 25, 2009 2:40:35pm |
re: #339 McSpiff
Honest question, have you ever traveled outside of the US? Because this describes literally no Canadian hospital I've ever been in.
Yes. What I am describing is primarily the UK NHS system with which I have years of direct experience. For Canada and Germany I have only observed a couple of interactions directly.
| 381 |
Bagua Wed, Nov 25, 2009 2:47:03pm |
re: #340 ryannon
Not exactly true: both Switzerland and Germany (not to mention France, Japan, the UK, Denmark, Sweden and even India) have world-class pharma companies doing cutting-edge R&D:
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]
Yes of course, but their contribution is not on the scale of the US and I believe all of these are for profit companies that make the lion share of their income in the US following the capitalist model, not the socialist.
The point being that to support the R&D and approval of new medicines requires a great deal of capital and without a profit motive who is going to fund that research?
| 382 |
Bagua Wed, Nov 25, 2009 7:19:15pm |
re: #345 Racer X
re: #342 sattv4u2
Have you watched the Frontline video series posted above? I highly recommend it. I was just as skeptical as both of you. I'm still skeptical of what is currently on the table, however I am becoming more open to a total overhaul.
Watch the video and lets discuss.
No I've not watch the video, considering the extreme bias of PBS I wouldn't take very seriously any propaganda piece they do on a current political issue.
Alternatively, I have direct experience with the both the US and the UK medical systems, on both sides of the prescription pad.
With that said, I will watch the video to see what you are on about, but I doubt some hack with an agenda is going to count much against decades of direct experience with both systems.
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