Overnight Open Thread
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Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind.
— Albert Einstein
686 comments
1 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Mar 27, 2010 11:20:17pm |
Nationalism is a tough thing to analyze. While it produced highly problematic modern Serbia, it also produced modern Israel, which has been a major force for good. So, its been a distinctly mixed bag.
| 2 |
~Fianna Sat, Mar 27, 2010 11:27:02pm |
re: #1 Dark_Falcon
Nationalism is a tough thing to analyze. While it produced highly problematic modern Serbia, it also produced modern Israel, which has been a major force for good. So, its been a distinctly mixed bag.
I think it tends to lean more to the bad. Nationalism really helped push along Fascism and Nazism, too.
| 3 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Mar 27, 2010 11:30:54pm |
re: #2 ~Fianna
I think it tends to lean more to the bad. Nationalism really helped push along Fascism and Nazism, too.
True that.
| 4 |
~Fianna Sat, Mar 27, 2010 11:33:31pm |
re: #3 Dark_Falcon
True that.
That's the main thing I find really creepy about the Tea Party rhetoric... All that American Exceptionalism stuff sounds way too nationalistic.
| 5 |
mardukhai Sat, Mar 27, 2010 11:33:33pm |
That really depends on who the nationalists are what their goals are.
After the Franco-Prussian war, Bismark, a Prussian and German nationalist if their was one, said that "Germany is a satisfied state."
In other words, in his view, Germany had achieved its nationalist goal, unification. Others want to rule the world.
And remember, Lenin said, "I spit on Russia." -- but he founded the most powerful and ruthless nationalist state in history.
| 6 |
Stonemason Sat, Mar 27, 2010 11:34:04pm |
It is like anything we humans get our hands or minds on, it is taken to extremes. A healthy dose can motivate a country to do great things, too little will allow a country to be taken over, and too much leads to what Fianna said.
Creatures of extremism, that's what we are.
| 7 |
mardukhai Sat, Mar 27, 2010 11:36:30pm |
America is exceptional - one constitution for 227 years. First country that even considered doing the right thing. Or is America all-bad and you toe the opposite line, the one that nearly got us all killed during the Cold War.
(I know about that personally from a terrorist attack - by the liberal and radical left.)
| 8 |
~Fianna Sat, Mar 27, 2010 11:36:33pm |
The unicorn and rainbow healthcare site got me thinking about Lisa Frank stickers. Now taking a google trip down memory lane. :)
| 9 |
mardukhai Sat, Mar 27, 2010 11:37:03pm |
Stonemason - right on. anything can be taken to an extreme.
| 10 |
Silvergirl Sat, Mar 27, 2010 11:37:06pm |
One of my favorite poems on the subject of war.
Sara Teasdale's
There Will Come Soft Rains
There will come soft rains and the smell of the ground,
And swallows circling with their shimmering sound;
And frogs in the pool singing at night,
And wild plum trees in tremulous white;
Robins will wear their feathery fire,
Whistling their whims on a low fence-wire;
And not one will know of the war, not one
Will care at last when it is done.
Not one would mind, neither bird nor tree,
If mankind perished utterly;
And Spring herself when she woke at dawn
Would scarcely know that we were gone.
| 11 |
Silvergirl Sat, Mar 27, 2010 11:38:18pm |
That possibly belongs in another thread.
I could be tired.
| 12 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Mar 27, 2010 11:38:24pm |
re: #5 mardukhai
That really depends on who the nationalists are what their goals are.
After the Franco-Prussian war, Bismark, a Prussian and German nationalist if their was one, said that "Germany is a satisfied state."
In other words, in his view, Germany had achieved its nationalist goal, unification. Others want to rule the world.
And remember, Lenin said, "I spit on Russia." -- but he founded the most powerful and ruthless nationalist state in history.
The problem turned out to be that those who followed Bismarck did not stay satisfied. Wilhelm II decided to have Germany become a major naval power, in the process antagonizing Great Britain and setting the stage for World War I. The story of Hitler's dissatisfaction and the run-up to World War II is well enough known that I won't repeat it here.
| 13 |
mardukhai Sat, Mar 27, 2010 11:40:00pm |
#12 Dark Falcon
And completely irrelevent. Bismark and Hitler had nothing in common but their nationality.
And now I must leave. Sorry.
| 14 |
~Fianna Sat, Mar 27, 2010 11:40:55pm |
re: #11 Silvergirl
That possibly belongs in another thread.
I could be tired.
The unicorns? Yes, it's from downstairs. I think it was Freetoken that posted it.
| 15 |
Dark_Falcon Sat, Mar 27, 2010 11:41:07pm |
re: #13 mardukhai
#12 Dark Falcon
And completely irrelevent. Bismark and Hitler had nothing in common but their nationality.
And now I must leave. Sorry.
Me too. We should continue this later. Right now, I need to sleep. Good night, everybody.
| 16 |
HappyWarrior Sat, Mar 27, 2010 11:42:06pm |
Nationalism is a mixed bag to me. Yeah it has its good parts but some nasty parts. I actually learned a little about nationalism theory when taking an Eastern European history class. Lot of interesting perspectives on the subject.
| 17 |
~Fianna Sat, Mar 27, 2010 11:42:06pm |
re: #15 Dark_Falcon
Me too. We should continue this later. Right now, I need to sleep. Good night, everybody.
Night, DF. Good dreams.
| 18 |
~Fianna Sat, Mar 27, 2010 11:43:51pm |
re: #16 HappyWarrior
Nationalism is a mixed bag to me. Yeah it has its good parts but some nasty parts. I actually learned a little about nationalism theory when taking an Eastern European history class. Lot of interesting perspectives on the subject.
A big issue with the whole idea is what exactly constitutes a nation? Nationalism inherently deals with issues of national pride, which isn't a bad thing, per se, until it devolves in to we're great, but we'd be even better if we got rid of the dirty $UnpopularMinorityOfChoice
| 19 |
simoom Sat, Mar 27, 2010 11:44:59pm |
Aww, YouTube has failed me :P.
I tried to find a video of this:
[Link: www.sfgate.com...]
Much as Woodstock featured an eclectic lineup ranging from the Grateful Dead to Sha-Na-Na, Saturday's speakers included Joe "the Plumber" Wurzelbacher, Orange County Assemblyman and Tea Party Express-endorsed Senate candidate Chuck DeVore, and former "Saturday Night Live" star Victoria Jackson.Wurzelbacher urged the crowd to get politically active, while Jackson performed a song that described Obama as "a communist dictator who is taking us to hell."
But no luck.
| 20 |
Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You Sat, Mar 27, 2010 11:45:01pm |
Yeah, you should listen to Al, he really knew what he was talking about with all that E=MC2 stuff and all. Just remember to never take his advice on hair care products...
| 22 |
Silvergirl Sat, Mar 27, 2010 11:49:16pm |
| 23 |
~Fianna Sat, Mar 27, 2010 11:49:24pm |
re: #19 simoom
Aww, YouTube has failed me :P.
I tried to find a video of this:
[Link: www.sfgate.com...]But no luck.
Local media seems to concur on the fact that a large portion of the crowd left after Palin spoke and Jackson was late in the lineup.
I'm really sorry that vid of that hasn't turned up yet, though. That would be ... spechul.
I'm absolutely heartbroken to find out that Mr. Garibaldi has jumped the loon bus.
| 24 |
HappyWarrior Sat, Mar 27, 2010 11:50:21pm |
re: #18 ~Fianna
A big issue with the whole idea is what exactly constitutes a nation? Nationalism inherently deals with issues of national pride, which isn't a bad thing, per se, until it devolves in to we're great, but we'd be even better if we got rid of the dirty $UnpopularMinorityOfChoice
Yep, that's one of nationalism's greatest pitfalls arguably.
| 25 |
Stonemason Sat, Mar 27, 2010 11:51:54pm |
re: #22 Silvergirl
I know it might be wrong, but I have taught my kids just how irrelevant we are in the grand scheme of things. Our existence is a blip on an infinite number of blips squared.
When we finally do ourselves in, I wonder if the next intelligent species will find remnants and learn...but if they are in any way related, the answer will be a resounding no.
| 26 |
~Fianna Sat, Mar 27, 2010 11:53:33pm |
re: #24 HappyWarrior
Yep, that's one of nationalism's greatest pitfalls arguably.
Downside of human nature is that it's often easier to blame another group than take responsibility.
Times of economic uncertainty are really good for populist blowhards and anti-Semites. And now anti-Latinos.
Remember, because you can't get a job, it's not that the economy is royally screwed and everyone's hurting... it's those darn illegals! /////(obviously)
| 27 |
~Fianna Sat, Mar 27, 2010 11:54:19pm |
re: #25 Stonemason
I know it might be wrong, but I have taught my kids just how irrelevant we are in the grand scheme of things. Our existence is a blip on an infinite number of blips squared.
When we finally do ourselves in, I wonder if the next intelligent species will find remnants and learn...but if they are in any way related, the answer will be a resounding no.
| 28 |
Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You Sat, Mar 27, 2010 11:57:49pm |
re: #18 ~Fianna
A big issue with the whole idea is what exactly constitutes a nation? Nationalism inherently deals with issues of national pride, which isn't a bad thing, per se, until it devolves in to we're great, but we'd be even better if we got rid of the dirty $UnpopularMinorityOfChoice
You mean like Atheists or maybe even the Liberals?
| 29 |
Stonemason Sat, Mar 27, 2010 11:59:12pm |
re: #27 ~Fianna
no you tube at work...what was that?
| 30 |
Stonemason Sat, Mar 27, 2010 11:59:50pm |
re: #28 ausador
You mean like Atheists or maybe even the Liberals?
[Link: i603.photobucket.com...]
or tea party members...
| 31 |
Silvergirl Sun, Mar 28, 2010 12:01:42am |
re: #25 Stonemason
I know it might be wrong, but I have taught my kids just how irrelevant we are in the grand scheme of things. Our existence is a blip on an infinite number of blips squared.
When we finally do ourselves in, I wonder if the next intelligent species will find remnants and learn...but if they are in any way related, the answer will be a resounding no.
Yeah, blips compared to the grand scheme, but still special enough to have birthday parties. You know? We may be inconsequential, but we want to and get to be special at the same time!
| 32 |
simoom Sun, Mar 28, 2010 12:02:04am |
re: #25 Stonemason
I know it might be wrong, but I have taught my kids just how irrelevant we are in the grand scheme of things. Our existence is a blip on an infinite number of blips squared.
| 33 |
Cato the Elder Sun, Mar 28, 2010 12:02:24am |
Plain Tales of Ordinary Madness, Baltimore Edition, Episode 93:
So, just went down to the local 7-Eleven, one block away, for coffee and cigs.
Outside was a dog tied to the bicycle rack, and a bunch of people standing around, including a policeman on the sidewalk and his partner inside a patrol car.
Story from the peeps inside the store: Dog was tied up and left there with a note saying "Lost. Need Help." Someone had put a plastic soda cup full of water next to him.
I made my purchases and came out. Haku and the "lost" (read: abandoned) dog instantly made friends. I talked to the policeman, and was told "Animal Control" had already been notified. What does that mean? I asked. Well, they'll take him in for 48 hours and then if the owner (read: abandoner) doesn't come forward, they'll put him down.
What about the SPCA?
They don't open until 11 A.M. tomorrow.
What if I sign for the dog, give you my name, address, telephone number, location of tattoos, and a deposit, and promise to take the dog to the SPCA first thing in the morning?
Sorry, sir, Animal Control has already been notified, there's nothing we can do to stop the protocol at this point.
What if you give my information, plus my mother's maiden name and my credit rating, to Animal Control and have them come talk to me?
Sorry, sir, we can't do anything. If the dog's owner were to show up and ask after him (there's a fucking fantasy for you!), we could be sued. [Ah! There's the rub.]
What if you call your supervisor?
Supervisor shows up, gives same song and dance.
What if I just walk away with my dog and this abandoned dog on their leashes and put them both in my warm (note: it's unseasonably cold in Baltimore right now, near freezing, the dog has been tied up for God knows how many hours, and he's shivering with cold) house, and you can follow me and let Animal Control come and talk to me whenever the hell they deign to show up?
In that case, sir, you will be arrested and taken into custody for obstructing justice and disobeying the lawful orders and directions of Baltimore peace officers, and your dog will also go with Animal Control while we take you to Central Booking. Please tie the abandoned dog back up at the bicycle rack and remove yourself from the scene.
At which point I handed the "Bobby's" (that's what I was calling him for the nonce) leash to the officer on the sidewalk and said, if this is the way it's going to be, I won't tie him back up. You do it, and I hope you sleep well when you get off shift tonight. Then I gave the finger to the lady supervisor and wished all a good night.
Fuck the police and the bureaucrats up their fat asses. That dog has no chance of making it past Monday unless he gets to the SPCA, and Animal Control almost never takes animals to the SPCA.
He may even have a microchip that would identify him and return him to owners from whom he was possibly stolen. The don't mess with niceties like that at Animal Control.
Fuck the police and the bureaucrats up their fat asses in hell.
| 34 |
Stonemason Sun, Mar 28, 2010 12:02:56am |
re: #31 Silvergirl
Of course, we are special in our own little spheres and we can affect other spheres, that is also pointed out!
| 35 |
Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You Sun, Mar 28, 2010 12:05:17am |
re: #25 Stonemason
I know it might be wrong, but I have taught my kids just how irrelevant we are in the grand scheme of things. Our existence is a blip on an infinite number of blips squared.
When we finally do ourselves in, I wonder if the next intelligent species will find remnants and learn...but if they are in any way related, the answer will be a resounding no.
You made them watch Carl Sagan's Cosmos series? I think that is probably classified as child abuse in some bible belt states.
///
| 36 |
Stonemason Sun, Mar 28, 2010 12:05:36am |
re: #32 simoom
[Video]
I am assuming that both the you tube videos are from "The Meaning of Life"
at least that is what goes through my mind when I think of the universe...
| 37 |
Lidane Sun, Mar 28, 2010 12:07:41am |
I've never fully trusted the idea of nationalism. Patriotism, on the other hand, I can understand.
To quote Sydney J. Harris:
"Patriotism is proud of a country’s virtues and eager to correct its deficiencies; it also acknowledges the legitimate patriotism of other countries, with their own specific virtues. The pride of nationalism, however, trumpets its country’s virtues and denies its deficiencies, while it is contemptuous toward the virtues of other countries. It wants to be, and proclaims itself to be, “the greatest,” but greatness is not required of a country; only goodness is."
------
"The difference between patriotism and nationalism is that the patriot is proud of his country for what it does, and the nationalist is proud of his country no matter what it does; the first attitude creates a feeling of responsibility, but the second a feeling of blind arrogance that leads to war."
Orwell has a fantastic essay on the differences between patriotism and nationalism as well. It's here.
| 38 |
Stonemason Sun, Mar 28, 2010 12:07:55am |
re: #35 ausador
You made them watch Carl Sagan's Cosmos series? I think that is probably classified as child abuse in some bible belt states.
///
Well, actually, we talk about both God and the science of it all. Both views relegate human existence (in this place, at this time) to almost meaningless, and yet, highly exciting and fulfilling.
| 39 |
bratwurst Sun, Mar 28, 2010 12:13:13am |
| 40 |
simoom Sun, Mar 28, 2010 12:17:12am |
re: #19 simoom
Heh, I still haven't found the Victoria Jackson song, but I did stumble across a different "Showdown in Searchlight" performance:
"If I live to be nintey-five,
will they say I should be euthanasized?Chorus: To have some bureaucrat decide if you should live or die,
that scare us half to death and make use want to cry.
Mandate if you don't join they'll tax you broke,
hey Universal healthcare is a big fat no!"
| 41 |
simoom Sun, Mar 28, 2010 12:31:04am |
^ There are some pretty bizarre videos from the event. One I just saw seems to be of a nutty Paulian / truther / Alex Jones follower who was waving a sign that read: "The answer to 1984 is 1776".
As Sarah Palin's motorcade enters and later leaves he screams at her SUV:
"Trash! You're trash Palin, you traitor! You New World Order traitor! You New World Order trash!
I won't bother embedding it as I'd rather not give a kook's video too many Views :P.
| 42 |
Silvergirl Sun, Mar 28, 2010 12:34:34am |
re: #34 Stonemason
Of course, we are special in our own little spheres and we can affect other spheres, that is also pointed out!
I was going to write more on that last post because it brought to mind a play I once saw. I couldn't remember the wording, only the feeling behind it, so I just dug through my old theatre stuff to get the director's notes off the program. It's Paddy Chayefsky's Gideon. I could write the whole of the notes here (they're fairly brief), but I'll cut to the chase with Gideon's words from the play:
Behold mine own small world of people . . . Could I not pretend there is some reason for their being here? Pretend, my Lord, no more than that. Let me have some bogus value.
| 43 |
laZardo Sun, Mar 28, 2010 12:38:12am |
Einstein had Asperger's, invented the nuclear bomb and married his cousin.
Also good afternoon.
| 44 |
freetoken Sun, Mar 28, 2010 12:38:51am |
| 45 |
laZardo Sun, Mar 28, 2010 12:41:53am |
re: #44 freetoken
re: #2 ~Fianna
Hmm, I'm tending to agree with Einstein here. Nationalism tends to be just tribalism writ large, and tribalism is at its heart very clan-ish. That is, the familial relationship becomes the defining character.
Nationalism could then probably be the evolution of the societal "unit" as it grew from families to groups to tribes in areas to cover large swaths of land. If and when human influence expands to other planets, we can as well see Planetarianism or whatever word gets coined for it.
| 46 |
freetoken Sun, Mar 28, 2010 12:53:45am |
This one is for, well, certain posters:
| 47 |
simoom Sun, Mar 28, 2010 1:03:11am |
re: #370 simoom
I'm off to head to bed. I'll leave a few last "Showdown in Searchlight" signs on my way out:
[Link: www.flickr.com...]
Once we had a President who actually loved his country!
(photo of president reagan)
[Link: www.flickr.com...]
We don't need 16,000 IRS Gestapo Agents
[Link: www.flickr.com...]
Read my lipstick
We are being destroyed from within
| 48 |
AK-47% Sun, Mar 28, 2010 1:13:44am |
Originally, when they sang "Deutschland über alles", they meant a unified Germany over thepatchwork of German mini-states that existed in the XIXth century. That maning was brutally distorted nder naional Socialism.
And the Modern World still has not resolved the question of nationality vs ethnicity or language, it is still an issue even in the USA.
| 49 |
Silvergirl Sun, Mar 28, 2010 1:15:47am |
re: #33 Cato the Elder
How did I miss this one?
Did this happen tonight, or is this a story from another posting?
| 50 |
mardukhai Sun, Mar 28, 2010 1:19:12am |
re: #48 ralphieboy
You're absolutely correct, Ralphieboy, and Alice can take it to the moon!
| 51 |
mardukhai Sun, Mar 28, 2010 1:20:16am |
By the way, Ralphie, I thought I was the last person in the world to know all that stuff...
| 52 |
The Left Sun, Mar 28, 2010 1:20:38am |
The Rage Is Not About Health Care
The conjunction of a black president and a female speaker of the House — topped off by a wise Latina on the Supreme Court and a powerful gay Congressional committee chairman — would sow fears of disenfranchisement among a dwindling and threatened minority in the country no matter what policies were in play. It’s not happenstance that Frank, Lewis and Cleaver — none of them major Democratic players in the health care push — received a major share of last weekend’s abuse. When you hear demonstrators chant the slogan “Take our country back!,” these are the people they want to take the country back from.
They can’t. Demographics are avatars of a change bigger than any bill contemplated by Obama or Congress. The week before the health care vote, The Times reported that births to Asian, black and Hispanic women accounted for 48 percent of all births in America in the 12 months ending in July 2008. By 2012, the next presidential election year, non-Hispanic white births will be in the minority. The Tea Party movement is virtually all white. The Republicans haven’t had a single African-American in the Senate or the House since 2003 and have had only three in total since 1935. Their anxieties about a rapidly changing America are well-grounded.
Suck it, Repukes.
hello. :)
| 53 |
AK-47% Sun, Mar 28, 2010 1:22:37am |
re: #51 mardukhai
By the way, Ralphie, I thought I was the last person in the world to know all that stuff...
I live in the Rhineland, near the spot where Hoffman von Fallersleben first sang "Deutschalnd über alles"; they are at proud of the song, and find it important to explain its historical context.
| 54 |
AK-47% Sun, Mar 28, 2010 1:23:25am |
| 55 |
Digital Display Sun, Mar 28, 2010 1:23:57am |
re: #52 iceweasel
Hi You! Finished Watching the Australian F1 live..Button won..
How are you this morning?
| 56 |
mardukhai Sun, Mar 28, 2010 1:26:29am |
I think they define "white" too narrowly. My daughter would be called "non-white" because her mother was from South America, despite the fact that she is a fair-skinned, very-Jewish looking brunette who speaks no Spanish.
I am concerned about housing and the labor market, however. Leftists don't tell us where we're supposed to put all our immigrants. One local town, highly impacted by immigrants, has a vacancy rate of less than one percent. My neighborhood had four families of illegal immigrants living in one apartment.
If immigration isn't controlled RATIONALLY, we face this in every neighborhood. It's not a future I look forward too...
| 57 |
Cato the Elder Sun, Mar 28, 2010 1:26:35am |
re: #33 Cato the Elder
Update: I went back down to 7-Eleven over an hour later and found "Bobby" still tied to the bike rack whilst the officer on duty idles his car to keep warm, waiting for Animal Control to show up and take charge. This dog, a friendly retriever mix, has now been out in the cold for at least six hours. I politely approached the patrol car and extracted a promise from the officer that he would call me when Animal Control shows up and give me the number (which of course he doesn't have, or claims not to have) to call tomorrow so I can try to do something humane about this ridiculous bureaucratic bullshit. We'll see. At any rate I'll be on the phone with AC tomorrow morning whether or not the officer keeps his promise. I asked him for an ETA on Animal Control's arrival. None forthcoming. So Officer Guy continues to sit there and idle his patrol car while people are getting robbed and killed, waiting for AC to show up and take away a friendly abandoned doggie who could now be snuggling in a warm bed with me and Haku.
This nonsensical Mongolian clusterfuck cannot be allowed to stand.
| 58 |
The Left Sun, Mar 28, 2010 1:26:52am |
re: #55 HoosierHoops
Hi You! Finished Watching the Australian F1 live..Button won..
How are you this morning?
Hey cutie! Jimmah and I are just now home-- will call you today. Would have called you tonight but we were in loud places!
What's happening? How are you? best to Winston, as ever. :)
| 59 |
Cato the Elder Sun, Mar 28, 2010 1:27:52am |
re: #49 Silvergirl
How did I miss this one?
Did this happen tonight, or is this a story from another posting?
It's happening as we speak. See my update at #57.
| 60 |
mardukhai Sun, Mar 28, 2010 1:28:36am |
re: #53 ralphieboy
Rhineland should have been given its own crown after Waterloo. Giving it to Preussen caused endless troubles.
But then, I'm the last supporter of the black and yellow.
| 61 |
ryannon Sun, Mar 28, 2010 1:28:45am |
re: #33 Cato the Elder
Plain Tales of Ordinary Madness, Baltimore Edition, Episode 93:
So, just went down to the local 7-Eleven, one block away, for coffee and cigs.
Outside was a dog tied to the bicycle rack, and a bunch of people standing around, including a policeman on the sidewalk and his partner inside a patrol car.
Story from the peeps inside the store: Dog was tied up and left there with a note saying "Lost. Need Help." Someone had put a plastic soda cup full of water next to him.
I made my purchases and came out. Haku and the "lost" (read: abandoned) dog instantly made friends. I talked to the policeman, and was told "Animal Control" had already been notified. What does that mean? I asked. Well, they'll take him in for 48 hours and then if the owner (read: abandoner) doesn't come forward, they'll put him down.
What about the SPCA?
They don't open until 11 A.M. tomorrow.
What if I sign for the dog, give you my name, address, telephone number, location of tattoos, and a deposit, and promise to take the dog to the SPCA first thing in the morning?
Sorry, sir, Animal Control has already been notified, there's nothing we can do to stop the protocol at this point.
What if you give my information, plus my mother's maiden name and my credit rating, to Animal Control and have them come talk to me?
Sorry, sir, we can't do anything. If the dog's owner were to show up and ask after him (there's a fucking fantasy for you!), we could be sued. [Ah! There's the rub.]
What if you call your supervisor?
Supervisor shows up, gives same song and dance.
What if I just walk away with my dog and this abandoned dog on their leashes and put them both in my warm (note: it's unseasonably cold in Baltimore right now, near freezing, the dog has been tied up for God knows how many hours, and he's shivering with cold) house, and you can follow me and let Animal Control come and talk to me whenever the hell they deign to show up?
In that case, sir, you will be arrested and taken into custody for obstructing justice and disobeying the lawful orders and directions of Baltimore peace officers, and your dog will also go with Animal Control while we take you to Central Booking. Please tie the abandoned dog back up at the bicycle rack and remove yourself from the scene.
At which point I handed the "Bobby's" (that's what I was calling him for the nonce) leash to the officer on the sidewalk and said, if this is the way it's going to be, I won't tie him back up. You do it, and I hope you sleep well when you get off shift tonight. Then I gave the finger to the lady supervisor and wished all a good night.
Fuck the police and the bureaucrats up their fat asses. That dog has no chance of making it past Monday unless he gets to the SPCA, and Animal Control almost never takes animals to the SPCA.
He may even have a microchip that would identify him and return him to owners from whom he was possibly stolen. The don't mess with niceties like that at Animal Control.
Fuck the police and the bureaucrats up their fat asses in hell.
Damn, that's awful. And it makes no real human sense.
What can you do, call the police?
All of a sudden, I remember something you wrote about using the word 'tragedy' correctly.
| 62 |
The Left Sun, Mar 28, 2010 1:28:52am |
re: #57 Cato the Elder
Cato-- Jimmah and I were out, but when something like this happens you need to call and text me. You talked to the wrong people.
Call the paper. Seriously. Take video of everything while it's happening and tell them all you're putting it up on youtube immediately.
| 63 |
Digital Display Sun, Mar 28, 2010 1:31:01am |
re: #58 iceweasel
Hey cutie! Jimmah and I are just now home-- will call you today. Would have called you tonight but we were in loud places!
What's happening? How are you? best to Winston, as ever. :)
I'm doing great..Finished watching the F1 Race..
Hope you had fun tonight...
Think I'll watch a movie and hit the sack soon....I love the weekend
| 64 |
freetoken Sun, Mar 28, 2010 1:38:00am |
| 65 |
ryannon Sun, Mar 28, 2010 1:43:42am |
re: #62 iceweasel
Cato-- Jimmah and I were out, but when something like this happens you need to call and text me. You talked to the wrong people.
Call the paper. Seriously. Take video of everything while it's happening and tell them all you're putting it up on youtube immediately.
I don't know if Cato is still following this thread at the moment, but you might want to give him a call and let him know of what you've just suggested.
Also, it would be great if the people here who are following this story were able to start calling numbers in Baltimore (police; animal control; the media, etc.). I'm quite willing to do this from Paris, and let them know that the story is going viral over the Net. But of course, we (Cato) need(s) some way of post the relevant numbers without violating the rules here against posting such info (or would this be an exception?).
Whatever.
I'm going to start looking for some numbers right now and will start calling myself.
| 66 |
The Left Sun, Mar 28, 2010 1:44:33am |
Cato-- email these people, send pics:
[Link: baltimorecrime.blogspot.com...]
[Link: www.blogbaltimore.com...]
[Link: insidecharmcity.com...]
Check their twitters; find out the tags baltimore bloggers use and tweet it. Link your posts here-- use bit.ly as a url shortener.
I may have more info but don't know what the specific baltimore area is. Google that neighbourhood and you'll find more. Email and call the paper and the specific community one. Hook up with the animal activists-- including the local PETA chapter.
You could bring a shitload of pressure down if you wanted to.
Put everything on video anytime you confront law enforcement or politicians; get everyone's names. Make sure everyone you speak with knows that you have their names and you're making everything public.
Alinsky tactics! ///
| 67 |
laZardo Sun, Mar 28, 2010 1:44:42am |
re: #57 Cato the Elder
And that's why I've lost faith in humanity.
| 68 |
The Left Sun, Mar 28, 2010 1:46:02am |
re: #65 ryannon
Cheers mate-- will do. I'll be speaking to Cato in a bit. Thanks again.
| 69 |
Gus Sun, Mar 28, 2010 1:47:18am |
re: #57 Cato the Elder
Update: I went back down to 7-Eleven over an hour later and found "Bobby" still tied to the bike rack whilst the officer on duty idles his car to keep warm, waiting for Animal Control to show up and take charge. This dog, a friendly retriever mix, has now been out in the cold for at least six hours. I politely approached the patrol car and extracted a promise from the officer that he would call me when Animal Control shows up and give me the number (which of course he doesn't have, or claims not to have) to call tomorrow so I can try to do something humane about this ridiculous bureaucratic bullshit. We'll see. At any rate I'll be on the phone with AC tomorrow morning whether or not the officer keeps his promise. I asked him for an ETA on Animal Control's arrival. None forthcoming. So Officer Guy continues to sit there and idle his patrol car while people are getting robbed and killed, waiting for AC to show up and take away a friendly abandoned doggie who could now be snuggling in a warm bed with me and Haku.
This nonsensical Mongolian clusterfuck cannot be allowed to stand.
Not much gumshoe work required for this one. The dog was abandoned. Obviously since they left a note. So instead the police department is going to spend several man hour babysitting an abandoned dog until AC shows up at 11 AM. By that time I'm sure another 7 hour will have elapsed.
Meanwhile, it's plain to see that the dog is abandoned. They give you no option to rescue the dog yourself but go as far as threatening you with arrest. In other words they'd take you to a jail cell immediately and more than likely take Haku immediately to the dog pound.
My guess is that it will probably cost the city a total of 500 dollars just to follow protocol which given the arrest threat I would also call this chickenshit bologna with an excuse to do some goldbricking.
| 70 |
ryannon Sun, Mar 28, 2010 1:47:30am |
re: #67 laZardo
And that's why I've lost faith in humanity.
Start calling!
I just found Baltimore Animal Control using Google and I reckon I can find a shitload of other numbers just by looking....
What we need is the exact location, the number of the police cruiser waiting outside, etc., etc.
| 71 |
laZardo Sun, Mar 28, 2010 1:48:51am |
re: #70 ryannon
I figure the dog's probably gonna end up dead, if not from 'inaction' then probably from ending up being put to sleep sometime later on down the line.
| 72 |
The Left Sun, Mar 28, 2010 1:56:03am |
re: #69 Gus 802
Not much gumshoe work required for this one. The dog was abandoned. Obviously since they left a note. So instead the police department is going to spend several man hour babysitting an abandoned dog until AC shows up at 11 AM. By that time I'm sure another 7 hour will have elapsed.
Meanwhile, it's plain to see that the dog is abandoned. They give you no option to rescue the dog yourself but go as far as threatening you with arrest. In other words they'd take you to a jail cell immediately and more than likely take Haku immediately to the dog pound.
My guess is that it will probably cost the city a total of 500 dollars just to follow protocol which given the arrest threat I would also call this chickenshit bologna with an excuse to do some goldbricking.
Cop lied when he said he didn't know or have the number for AC, obviously.
My guess is that Cato got visibly mad and so the cops acted (even more) like assholes.
That's what cops do.
Cato-- you have to stay calm, you have to record everything and let them know you are recording it, and you have to immediately go public-- e.g., calling the papers.
Step back and video it all and say you're putting it on youtube and (lie and ) say someone at the Baltimore Sun is getting the live streaming video as you record, and the cops get a whole lot nicer. Just sayin'.
But for now-- email and call everyone as suggested.
| 73 |
ryannon Sun, Mar 28, 2010 1:56:16am |
re: #71 laZardo
That's only a probability (meaning a possibility) but not a certainty.
Once determined people enter the mix, everything changes.
In this case, I'm more interested in going in Cato's direction (trying to short-circuit teh stupid) than just allowing things to happen as if I was a passive witness.
| 74 |
Gus Sun, Mar 28, 2010 1:58:03am |
From 2004. I wonder if things have changed...
To the Dogs
Baltimore Animal Control Saves Animals From Hunger, Neglect, and Cruelty and Delivers Them to Confinement, Poor Conditions, and a One in 10 Chance of Survival
She says the staff was courteous and helpful, but conditions in the holding kennel were horrible. "I have to tell you I started to cry. Every dog except one, and I am not kidding, was grossly malnourished. I could count every rib in their bodies. Some would not even move when I walked by. I asked the officer, ‘Don't you feed these dogs?' I was shocked by the response I got. He told me that they are very short-staffed. The dogs usually get fed once a day. They never get fed twice a day due to being short-staffed and not enough time. I thought he was kidding. I asked him if he was serious about the dogs not always being fed once a day. He said, ‘We try. We do the best we can.'
...
For the spared animals, which can be kept for months in the shelter's kennels while awaiting adoption, conditions can be bleak. The shelter has been the target of complaints from animal rescue groups in recent years of poor treatment of the animals, and potential pet adopters who stop by the low, cinder-block animal shelter building at 301 Stockholm St., just south of Ravens stadium, sometimes come away shocked at the conditions.
Celeste Harris says she contacted the shelter in late April in search of a border collie. She ended up glad that the shelter didn't have one.
She says the staff was courteous and helpful, but conditions in the holding kennel were horrible. "I have to tell you I started to cry. Every dog except one, and I am not kidding, was grossly malnourished. I could count every rib in their bodies. Some would not even move when I walked by. I asked the officer, ‘Don't you feed these dogs?' I was shocked by the response I got. He told me that they are very short-staffed. The dogs usually get fed once a day. They never get fed twice a day due to being short-staffed and not enough time. I thought he was kidding. I asked him if he was serious about the dogs not always being fed once a day. He said, ‘We try. We do the best we can.'
...
| 75 |
ryannon Sun, Mar 28, 2010 1:59:17am |
re: #57 Cato the Elder
Cato, if you think that a series of calls to the various players (easily obtainable on Google) from the people here who feel concerned by this situation would be useful, let us know where all this is taking place - plus any other info you think would be useful or important for callers.
| 76 |
The Left Sun, Mar 28, 2010 2:01:42am |
re: #74 Gus 802
From 2004. I wonder if things have changed...
To the Dogs
Baltimore Animal Control Saves Animals From Hunger, Neglect, and Cruelty and Delivers Them to Confinement, Poor Conditions, and a One in 10 Chance of Survival
Probably not.
Times are even harder now.
Cities that didn't care much about animals in 2004 and didn't spend money on animals in 2004 are, if anything, going to be spending less.
Gah. Out for the night. Be well, all.
| 78 |
Gus Sun, Mar 28, 2010 2:02:51am |
re: #72 iceweasel
Cop lied when he said he didn't know or have the number for AC, obviously.
My guess is that Cato got visibly mad and so the cops acted (even more) like assholes.
That's what cops do.
Cato-- you have to stay calm, you have to record everything and let them know you are recording it, and you have to immediately go public-- e.g., calling the papers.Step back and video it all and say you're putting it on youtube and (lie and ) say someone at the Baltimore Sun is getting the live streaming video as you record, and the cops get a whole lot nicer. Just sayin'.
But for now-- email and call everyone as suggested.
Yeah. I try to avoid them as much as possible. I'm not some paranoid hater but it's weird how you have to give them so much space. I remember almost 10 years ago there was a big bust in the unit across from me and when I asked one of the attending cops "what happened" it was like I just stepped on his toe. He rudely told me that he can't tell me what happened. Fine, it's only something that happened 20 feet from my front door. They're just so aloof.
| 79 |
Gus Sun, Mar 28, 2010 2:05:31am |
re: #76 iceweasel
Probably not.
Times are even harder now.Cities that didn't care much about animals in 2004 and didn't spend money on animals in 2004 are, if anything, going to be spending less.
Gah. Out for the night. Be well, all.
The way they treat animals. Society though and I'm not picking on one particular group. I was looking through some shelter photos of kittens several months ago and the whole experience was depressing. Seeing those poor cute little kittens. More than half of which will be destroyed. Same with the puppies.
Later Ice.
| 80 |
laZardo Sun, Mar 28, 2010 2:10:35am |
The road to extended suffering is paved with good intentions, and no good deed goes unpunished. Welcome to the human race. :D
| 81 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Sun, Mar 28, 2010 2:15:39am |
Drive by OT: People who "run cover" for Roman Polanski vs. people who "run cover" for Roman Catholic pedophiles. Who sucks evil dick harder?
Pat Condell has his bit here.
I think both groups suck equally, because they both make excuses for FUCKING CHILD MOLESTERS!!!
| 84 |
Digital Display Sun, Mar 28, 2010 3:19:11am |
Well..It's 6am Still haven't gone to bed yet..Watched the Aussie F1 live tonight and watched Gran Torino...
I panned the movie the first time I saw it..I still think Clint Eastwood acting sucks.. You could take any character from any movie of all time and plug him into any other movie...Clint plays the same character in every movie.
Doesn't mean I don't love the man..but come on...
I panned Gran Torino the first time with 2 out of 5 stars.. But after review...
I'll give Clint a 4 out of 5 just out of respect and for his script this morning...
Maybe as a change up he should do a comedy or something..Maybe with a chimp or something..oh wait...
Same character Clint..In every single movie forever.. I love ya man...But come on...
| 85 |
Only The Lurker Knows Sun, Mar 28, 2010 3:27:19am |
re: #84 HoosierHoops
I think they call that type casting
| 86 |
Digital Display Sun, Mar 28, 2010 3:31:58am |
re: #85 Bubblehead II
I think they call that type casting
Yea..You are right..But I thought Clint's acting in Million dollar baby finally reached the depth of genus..Then in Gran Torino..He goes right back to playing the same role...
Make my day..Get off my lawn.. Same old same old..
| 89 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Mar 28, 2010 3:37:12am |
GGGAAAAWWWDDDD,, whata night
Last few hours spent "retiring' equipment here at work
| 90 |
Digital Display Sun, Mar 28, 2010 3:39:23am |
re: #87 RogueOne
Morning all.
Good Morning.. Are you coming down next weekend for the final four?
Tons of free music and events.. I'm going to the goo goo dolls sunday..
Planning will be going on Monday..What free concert are you going to?
I dunno..What concert are you going too?
Indy is in the middle of the sports universe this weekend...
| 91 |
Darth Vader Gargoyle Sun, Mar 28, 2010 3:39:55am |
Good Morning Lizards.
My squadron change of command was Friday so now I have a couple weeks of odd jobs around the house before I head for DC.
Back to being a staff weenie!
| 92 |
RogueOne Sun, Mar 28, 2010 3:41:57am |
re: #90 HoosierHoops
Good Morning.. Are you coming down next weekend for the final four?
Tons of free music and events.. I'm going to the goo goo dolls sunday..
Planning will be going on Monday..What free concert are you going to?
I dunno..What concert are you going too?
Indy is in the middle of the sports universe this weekend...
My wife has a client party going on thursday, I think. I live just outside Noblesville so I'd like to get down at least a couple night.
| 93 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Mar 28, 2010 3:43:24am |
re: #90 HoosierHoops
Good Morning.. Are you coming down next weekend for the final four?
Tons of free music and events.. I'm going to the goo goo dolls sunday..
Planning will be going on Monday..What free concert are you going to?
I dunno..What concert are you going too?
Indy is in the middle of the sports universe this weekend...
That may be, but if Duke gets knocked off today the TV ratings will fall far short
| 94 |
Digital Display Sun, Mar 28, 2010 3:45:54am |
re: #92 RogueOne
My wife has a client party going on thursday, I think. I live just outside Noblesville so I'd like to get down at least a couple night.
Damn dude..We live 45 minutes away...Let me know if you are going to be in town this weekend for the free music..We could meet up...
You know when a city puts on free concerts all weekend..I'm so there...
| 95 |
RogueOne Sun, Mar 28, 2010 3:47:10am |
STP is Friday night and I'd like to see them again. Daughtry is Saturday and my wife would like to see them. So I may be down there 3 nights in a row, it will be like old times.
| 96 |
Digital Display Sun, Mar 28, 2010 3:50:02am |
re: #93 sattv4u2
That may be, but if Duke gets knocked off today the TV ratings will fall far short
Doesn't matter..The final four is 15 minutes away..Free music all weekend..
Back roads coming home..This is exciting for Indy...We got the Superbowl in 2012.. I'm flying back for that week..Just to hang out and to stay at my friend's house.. We will be downtown every single day having fun...
| 97 |
RadicalModerate Sun, Mar 28, 2010 3:51:05am |
One would think that with all the incendiary rhetoric that rightwingers have been throwing around for the past week or so, that Democratic lawmakers would be really careful on choosing their words.
Unfortunately, that idea seems to have been lost on Rep. Nick Levasseur (D-NH), because he posted something last week on his Facebook page that in my opinion was just mindnumbingly stupid.
| 98 |
Digital Display Sun, Mar 28, 2010 3:51:42am |
re: #95 RogueOne
STP is Friday night and I'd like to see them again. Daughtry is Saturday and my wife would like to see them. So I may be down there 3 nights in a row, it will be like old times.
I'm going to see Daughtry Saturday also.. i really like him...
| 99 |
RogueOne Sun, Mar 28, 2010 3:53:05am |
re: #96 HoosierHoops
Doesn't matter..The final four is 15 minutes away..Free music all weekend..
Back roads coming home..This is exciting for Indy...We got the Superbowl in 2012.. I'm flying back for that week..Just to hang out and to stay at my friend's house.. We will be downtown every single day having fun...
Indy can put on a decent party downtown, we're actually pretty good at it. I really like Indy, I've closed down the bars there literally thousands of times and never felt unsafe wandering around trying to remember where I parked at 3:30am.
| 100 |
RogueOne Sun, Mar 28, 2010 3:53:58am |
re: #98 HoosierHoops
I'm going to see Daughtry Saturday also.. i really like him...
My wife would really like to see that show, she's a fan. We'll have to try to hook-up so I can buy you a beer before you leave.
| 101 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Mar 28, 2010 3:54:33am |
re: #97 RadicalModerate
One would think that with all the incendiary rhetoric that rightwingers have been throwing around for the past week or so, that Democratic lawmakers would be really careful on choosing their words.
Unfortunately, that idea seems to have been lost on Rep. Nick Levasseur (D-NH), because he posted something last week on his Facebook page that in my opinion was just mindnumbingly stupid.
Thank God he's a dem or else that would be a racist remark!
/
| 102 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Mar 28, 2010 3:55:22am |
re: #100 RogueOne
My wife would really like to see that show, she's a fan. We'll have to try to hook-up so I can buy you a beer before you leave.
Wish I could be there also. BUT ,, seeing that I can't, instead of buying me a beer just send me the cash!
| 103 |
RogueOne Sun, Mar 28, 2010 3:55:46am |
re: #101 sattv4u2
Thank God he's a dem or else that would be a racist remark!
/
That's another one of those "I can't believe they're making a big deal out that" for me. The list of banned jokes/words gets longer every day.
| 104 |
Digital Display Sun, Mar 28, 2010 3:59:21am |
re: #100 RogueOne
My wife would really like to see that show, she's a fan. We'll have to try to hook-up so I can buy you a beer before you leave.
Sounds like fun.. I'll email you my cell this week....
Yes I'll be downtown with my crazy friends from Indiana this weekend.
| 105 |
Digital Display Sun, Mar 28, 2010 4:01:49am |
re: #100 RogueOne
My wife would really like to see that show, she's a fan. We'll have to try to hook-up so I can buy you a beer before you leave.
I'm really out of here...Indiana is pretty cool
| 106 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Mar 28, 2010 4:02:49am |
re: #103 RogueOne
That's another one of those "I can't believe they're making a big deal out that" for me. The list of banned jokes/words gets longer every day.
That's really my point. It's not a big deal for me either. Too many people spend too much time looking in every nook and cranny to find anything "offensive"
This is a state rep, from a state with not too large of a populace, posting something dumb and non-thinking on his own facebook page. Not like he said it on live TV during a debate, or ran on it as a platform
| 108 |
RadicalModerate Sun, Mar 28, 2010 4:15:34am |
re: #103 RogueOne
Maybe I'm just a bit thin-skinned over stuff like this. There's certain areas that I think should be off-limits for statements like this. Then again some folks thought that Ann Coulter was funny when she said that Timothy McVeigh should have targeted the New York Times building...
| 109 |
RogueOne Sun, Mar 28, 2010 4:19:09am |
re: #108 RadicalModerate
Maybe I'm just a bit thin-skinned over stuff like this. There's certain areas that I think should be off-limits for statements like this. Then again some folks thought that Ann Coulter was funny when she said that Timothy McVeigh should have targeted the New York Times building...
I know I'm definitely not in the majority here with my love of verbal bomb-throwers. I give people extra-credit points for crossing the line of good taste.
| 110 |
Darth Vader Gargoyle Sun, Mar 28, 2010 4:19:10am |
re: #103 RogueOne
That's another one of those "I can't believe they're making a big deal out that" for me. The list of banned jokes/words gets longer every day.
Fortunately the constitution doesn't enumerate the right not to be offended...yet.
| 111 |
Digital Display Sun, Mar 28, 2010 4:20:33am |
re: #110 rwdflynavy
Fortunately the constitution doesn't enumerate the right not to be offended...yet.
Good luck with your up coming move to DC.
| 112 |
RogueOne Sun, Mar 28, 2010 4:21:56am |
re: #110 rwdflynavy
Fortunately the constitution doesn't enumerate the right not to be offended...yet.
"Yet" is right. It seems to get worse every year with people actively looking for ways to be offended. If you disagree you must be a racist father-raper.
| 113 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Mar 28, 2010 4:23:19am |
re: #108 RadicalModerate
Maybe I'm just a bit thin-skinned over stuff like this. There's certain areas that I think should be off-limits for statements like this. Then again some folks thought that Ann Coulter was funny when she said that Timothy McVeigh should have targeted the New York Times building...
imho, we all need to lighten up a bit. Growing up, I was called every derogatory term that someone with an Italian/Sicilian/Irish heritage could be. At the same time, I used similar terms for my (insert an ethnicity) friends, all in good jest. We all grew up just fine
YES ,, if someone wearing a with a white hood and sheets burns a cross on a black persons (or anyone elses, for that matter) lawn they should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. But as I stated in #106, I think people spend way too much time today looking to BE offended
| 114 |
Jadespring Sun, Mar 28, 2010 4:26:06am |
Morning Lizards!
This is what I've found out so far today on the internet.
Did everyone here know that 'the left' is responsible for white supremists?
No this isn't whether blatant racists are 'left' or 'right' but in regards to their actual creation. 'The left' caused/causes people to become all supremecy so it's not really their fault. They can't help themselves it seems. 'The left' forces them to be that way.
I guess it's all the mind control 'you will be a human douchbag' guns 'the left' owns.
| 115 |
Only The Lurker Knows Sun, Mar 28, 2010 4:27:53am |
re: #113 sattv4u2
"But as I stated in #106, I think people spend way too much time today looking to BE offended"
Well of course they do. Victimhood has been proven to be a profitable venue if you can spin it right.
| 116 |
lazardo Sun, Mar 28, 2010 4:27:53am |
re: #112 RogueOne
"Yet" is right. It seems to get worse every year with people actively looking for ways to be offended. If you disagree you must be a racist father-raper.
On the other hand, it could be because we'd be offended not to be offended.
| 117 |
RogueOne Sun, Mar 28, 2010 4:28:23am |
re: #116 lazardo
On the other hand, it could be because we'd be offended not to be offended.
That offends me.
| 119 |
RogueOne Sun, Mar 28, 2010 4:29:29am |
re: #114 Jadespring
Morning Lizards!
This is what I've found out so far today on the internet.
Did everyone here know that 'the left' is responsible for white supremists?
No this isn't whether blatant racists are 'left' or 'right' but in regards to their actual creation. 'The left' caused/causes people to become all supremecy so it's not really their fault. They can't help themselves it seems. 'The left' forces them to be that way.I guess it's all the mind control 'you will be a human douchbag' guns 'the left' owns.
I'm not sure but I think that offends me too. Fill your thought out a little for me so I know if I'm going to have to write a nasty letter to the editor.
| 120 |
Digital Display Sun, Mar 28, 2010 4:30:37am |
| 121 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Mar 28, 2010 4:30:45am |
re: #119 RogueOne
I'm not sure but I think that offends me too. Fill your thought out a little for me so I know if I'm going to have to
write a nasty letter to the editorget a note from my therapist so I can sue someone.
always follow the $$$
| 122 |
Darth Vader Gargoyle Sun, Mar 28, 2010 4:31:58am |
re: #115 Bubblehead II
"But as I stated in #106, I think people spend way too much time today looking to BE offended"
Well of course they do. Victimhood has been proven to be a profitable venue if you can spin it right.
Especially by people with whom they disagree.
| 123 |
Darth Vader Gargoyle Sun, Mar 28, 2010 4:33:15am |
Not to offend anyone, but I gotta get ready for churchy stuff. Later Lizards.
| 124 |
MandyManners Sun, Mar 28, 2010 4:34:40am |
Each group issued a statement taking credit for the clash, triggering tensions between their armed wings and supporters. They have also accused each other of lying about this matter.
The goal of each group is to score points on the Palestinian street, especially since the clash came amid growing tensions between Israel and the Palestinians over the issues of Jerusalem, settlements and the Temple Mount.
Hamas leaders, meanwhile, have taken precautions in anticipation of Israeli reprisal. Some are said to have gone into hiding, while many Hamas-run institutions have been evacuated for fear of being targeted by the IAF. SNIP
BOOGA! BOOGA!
| 125 |
MandyManners Sun, Mar 28, 2010 4:36:27am |
"I am not setting a timetable, but we will not tolerate this regime continuing to strengthen itself militarily and providing itself with an arsenal of rockets that threaten our territory," he added.
An Israeli officer and soldier were killed over the weekend in the deadliest clashes since Israel's 22-day offensive in Gaza launched in December 2008.
SNIP
| 126 |
MandyManners Sun, Mar 28, 2010 4:38:08am |
The PM's comments come following the death of two soldiers in Gaza clashes on Friday, which increased concern in the Israel Defense Forces that Hamas is trying to alter the situation along the Gaza Strip border fence, which will result in their targeting of Israeli patrols.
"Israel's policy of retaliation is forceful and decisive," the PM said during the weekly government meeting in Jerusalem, asserting that Israel would "retaliate decisively against any attack on our citizens and soldiers."
"This policy is well-known and will continue. Hamas and the other terror organizations need to know that they are the ones that are responsible for their own actions," Netanyahu said.
SNIP
| 127 |
Only The Lurker Knows Sun, Mar 28, 2010 4:39:36am |
re: #118 Spare O'Lake
Thanks for that link. It led me to this song.
Gordon Lightfoot- Two Tones- Dark As A Dungeon
I am going to have to look into this partnership (Two Tones) a bit.
| 128 |
Walter L. Newton Sun, Mar 28, 2010 4:43:33am |
| 129 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Mar 28, 2010 4:44:50am |
re: #128 Walter L. Newton
I hope they cleared this with Washington first?
maybe if Israel promises not to build any houses,,,,,
| 130 |
Spare O'Lake Sun, Mar 28, 2010 4:47:56am |
Steel Rail Blues: Lightfoot
| 131 |
MandyManners Sun, Mar 28, 2010 4:48:44am |
| 132 |
Jadespring Sun, Mar 28, 2010 4:48:57am |
re: #119 RogueOne
I'm not sure but I think that offends me too. Fill your thought out a little for me so I know if I'm going to have to write a nasty letter to the editor.
LOL. I'll just write it for you.
Dear editor,
This morning I woke up, got my coffee and prepared for a nice relaxing morning. I opened your paper and casually read over the news about our lovely town. Then I read Mr. Delacrossection's column and it caused the most curious reaction to it's content. My brain stalled. It was like it just stopped dead for a moment as it's synapses were forced to try to process some of the most stupid and apologetic logic I have read in your paper.
The point made by the actual content barely deserve comment or worth the time to get offended.
I am however slightly offended that your paper would print such idiotic drivel that forced me to hold my ears (which made it impossible to drink my coffee) in order to make sure part of my brain didn't leak out. I will also be sending you the doctors bill for treating the bruises I obtained from banging my head on the desk several times.
Yours sincerely, XXX
| 133 |
Only The Lurker Knows Sun, Mar 28, 2010 4:49:52am |
| 134 |
SixDegrees Sun, Mar 28, 2010 4:50:06am |
re: #128 Walter L. Newton
I hope they cleared this with Washington first?
Ben was going to discuss it at dinner the other night, but...
| 135 |
RogueOne Sun, Mar 28, 2010 4:50:49am |
re: #132 Jadespring
LOL. I'll just write it for you.
Dear editor,
This morning I woke up, got my coffee and prepared for a nice relaxing morning. I opened your paper and casually read over the news about our lovely town. Then I read Mr. Delacrossection's column and it caused the most curious reaction to it's content. My brain stalled. It was like it just stopped dead for a moment as it's synapses were forced to try to process some of the most stupid and apologetic logic I have read in your paper.
The point made by the actual content barely deserve comment or worth the time to get offended.I am however slightly offended that your paper would print such idiotic drivel that forced me to hold my ears (which made it impossible to drink my coffee) in order to make sure part of my brain didn't leak out. I will also be sending you the doctors bill for treating the bruises I obtained from banging my head on the desk several times.
Yours sincerely, XXX
We should turn that into an form letter.
| 136 |
Digital Display Sun, Mar 28, 2010 4:51:05am |
re: #129 sattv4u2
maybe if Israel promises not to build any houses,,,
It's funny how vision and leadership can be brought to its knees by a proposed apartment building...
Our State Dept. Rocks
/
| 138 |
Only The Lurker Knows Sun, Mar 28, 2010 4:53:16am |
re: #132 Jadespring
I only regret that I have but one upding to give you for that post.
| 139 |
MandyManners Sun, Mar 28, 2010 4:54:59am |
The United Nations inspectors assigned to monitor Iran’s nuclear program are now searching for evidence of two such sites, prompted by recent comments by a top Iranian official that drew little attention in the West, and are looking into a mystery about the whereabouts of recently manufactured uranium enrichment equipment.
In an interview with the Iranian Student News Agency, the official, Ali Akbar Salehi, head of Iran’s Atomic Energy Organization, said President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad had ordered work to begin soon on two new plants. The plants, he said, “will be built inside mountains,” presumably to protect them from attacks.
“God willing,” Mr. Salehi was quoted as saying, “we may start the construction of two new enrichment sites” in the Iranian new year, which began March 21.
SNIP
| 140 |
Jetpilot1101 Sun, Mar 28, 2010 4:57:15am |
Good Moring Lizards,
Quick question that goes along with some of what this thread has touched on. Does anyone here find Carlos Mencia to be offensive or would anyone here label him a racist?
Just wondering.
JP
| 141 |
MandyManners Sun, Mar 28, 2010 4:58:17am |
The unprecedented move by the International Telecommunication Union (ITU) adds to pressure on Tehran as world powers consider a new round of UN sanctions over Iran’s nuclear program and it faces simmering social unrest.
Iranian authorities have been jamming foreign satellite broadcasts into their territory since late last year, with broadcasters such as the BBC and Deutsche Welle affected. Access to the Internet for Iranian citizens has also been affected.
In a statement, ITU’s radio regulations board said interference coming from Iran was harming signals from satellite networks run by Eutelsat, a French satellite operator.
Iran should find the source of the interference — which affects both radio and television signals — and “eliminate it as a matter of highest priority.”
“In this case there is evidence that there is a deliberate attempt to block the satellite transmissions and so they are saying this should be stopped. This is prohibited under the regulations,” ITU spokesman Sanjay Acharya said.
“Iran has not admitted it is sending out these signals that are interfering with Eutelsat. They have said they will investigate,” he added. SNIP
Riiight.
| 142 |
MandyManners Sun, Mar 28, 2010 4:58:43am |
re: #140 Jetpilot1101
Good Moring Lizards,
Quick question that goes along with some of what this thread has touched on. Does anyone here find Carlos Mencia to be offensive or would anyone here label him a racist?
Just wondering.
JP
He's not an Anglo so,...
| 143 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Mar 28, 2010 4:59:19am |
re: #140 Jetpilot1101
Good Moring Lizards,
Quick question that goes along with some of what this thread has touched on. Does anyone here find Carlos Mencia to be offensive or would anyone here label him a racist?
Just wondering.
JP
I see no evidence that he believes that one "race' is inherently superior to another. I also think we've bastardized what the term 'racist" means
| 144 |
Walter L. Newton Sun, Mar 28, 2010 5:01:11am |
re: #143 sattv4u2
I see no evidence that he believes that one "race' is inherently superior to another. I also think we've bastardized what the term 'racist" means
No kidding. Racist has come to mean only one thing... a white male. And that's not fair nor true in any sense of the word. White females can be as racist as any white male.
| 145 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Mar 28, 2010 5:02:05am |
re: #141 MandyManners
They have said they will investigate,” he added. SNIP
Riiight.
I believe them!
At this very moment, there are top level reservations being made at the swankiest New York City restaurants by UN officials !
| 146 |
Spare O'Lake Sun, Mar 28, 2010 5:02:36am |
re: #127 Bubblehead II
Thanks for that link. It led me to this song.
Gordon Lightfoot- Two Tones- Dark As A Dungeon
I am going to have to look into this partnership (Two Tones) a bit.
That was early '60s in Toronto. Here's a link to a review of that album.
[Link: www.lightfoot.ca...]
| 147 |
Jetpilot1101 Sun, Mar 28, 2010 5:03:12am |
re: #143 sattv4u2
I was just curious what others thought. Seems like his diverse audience has no problem laughing uproariously at his jokes even though he makes fun of a lot of different ethnic groups.
| 148 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Mar 28, 2010 5:05:15am |
re: #147 Jetpilot1101
I was just curious what others thought. Seems like his diverse audience has no problem laughing uproariously at his jokes even though he makes fun of a lot of different ethnic groups.
Same with Lisa Lampanelli. She skewers EVERYONE, and each of those groups laughs harder at the jokes aimed at them than anyone else. Wee need more of that, imho (see my #106)
| 149 |
lazardo Sun, Mar 28, 2010 5:06:21am |
re: #147 Jetpilot1101
Gabriel Iglesias' "Racist Gift Basket" routine was funny as fuck.
| 150 |
Only The Lurker Knows Sun, Mar 28, 2010 5:07:03am |
re: #140 Jetpilot1101
Well his Wiki page doesn't mention any allegations of racism but he gets hammered over allegations of plagiarism. They were serious enough that there was even a South Park episode.
"Carlos Mencia's accused plagiarism was also the butt of a few jokes in an April 2009 episode of South Park entitled "Fishsticks" where Carlos Mencia takes credit for a joke that somebody else had written. When faced with the prospect of being assaulted he admits "I took credit for it because I'm not actually funny!.... I just take jokes and repackage them with a Mexican accent!" He is later killed in the episode by Kanye West.[20]"
| 151 |
jordash1212 Sun, Mar 28, 2010 5:07:39am |
The ironic part about this quote is that Einstein made an exception for Israel; he became a Zionist.
| 152 |
Digital Display Sun, Mar 28, 2010 5:08:09am |
Is this big or not? Small town Butler University from Indy is in the final four in Indy..This is like the movie Hoosiers.. You can't write this stuff...
Don't believe me? 8am ESPN storyline..
Good Lawd.. Butler is in the final four..5 miles away from Downtown!
This is the greatest story in years...It's the Movie..The Hoosiers..
And I'm right here...I'm your reporter on the ground.. It's very exciting!
| 153 |
MandyManners Sun, Mar 28, 2010 5:08:24am |
re: #145 sattv4u2
They have said they will investigate,” he added. SNIP
Riiight.I believe them!
At this very moment, there are top level reservations being made at the swankiest New York City restaurants by UN officials !
Short Shit oughta' watch out. He could get a paper cut from a strongly worded letter.
| 155 |
lazardo Sun, Mar 28, 2010 5:13:30am |
“I do not know how the third World War will be fought, but I can tell you what they will use in the Fourth – rocks!”
- Einstein, as seen in Call of Duty: Modern Warfare
| 156 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Mar 28, 2010 5:16:32am |
Okay,,, so I just had a Hot Pocket for breakfast. O the package I read the words
NEW! Great Taste
I think I'll give them a call and ask if they have any of their OLD! Shitty Taste(ing) ones I can buy cheaper!!
| 157 |
RogueOne Sun, Mar 28, 2010 5:16:50am |
re: #148 sattv4u2
Same with Lisa Lampanelli. She skewers EVERYONE, and each of those groups laughs harder at the jokes aimed at them than anyone else. Wee need more of that, imho (see my #106)
I love her, she just kills me.
| 159 |
SteveC Sun, Mar 28, 2010 5:19:55am |
re: #156 sattv4u2
Okay,,, so I just had a Hot Pocket for breakfast. O the package I read the words
NEW! Great Taste
I think I'll give them a call and ask if they have any of their OLD! Shitty Taste(ing) ones I can buy cheaper!!
New version is released, price on the old version usually comes down! :)
I got a GOOD Pulse Oximeter - the same model my Cardiologist uses - after the NEW AND IMPROVED version was released. The big difference is that Version 2.0 is 7/1000 of a nanosecond faster.
//Hurry up, I can't wait all day!
| 160 |
SteveC Sun, Mar 28, 2010 5:21:14am |
re: #157 RogueOne
I love her, she just kills me.
[Video]
Delia, Oh Delia,
Delia all my life;
If I hadn't killed poor Delia
I'd have made that girl my wife.
-Johnny Cash
| 161 |
Digital Display Sun, Mar 28, 2010 5:21:19am |
re: #156 sattv4u2
Okay,,, so I just had a Hot Pocket for breakfast. O the package I read the words
NEW! Great Taste
I think I'll give them a call and ask if they have any of their OLD! Shitty Taste(ing) ones I can buy cheaper!!
The Coffee is ready.. But after seeing Dicky V screaming on the Big Screen about the Final 4 on ESPN..I'm jacked up..It's only 8:19am during march madness and Dicky has me ready to go to war!
/The best time of the year!
| 162 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Mar 28, 2010 5:23:37am |
re: #161 HoosierHoops
The Coffee is ready.. But after seeing Dicky V screaming on the Big Screen about the Final 4 on ESPN..I'm jacked up..It's only 8:19am during march madness and Dicky has me ready to go to war!
/The best time of the year!
what does that have to do with my sucky breakfast!?!?!
| 163 |
SteveC Sun, Mar 28, 2010 5:24:37am |
re: #161 HoosierHoops
The Coffee is ready.. But after seeing Dicky V screaming on the Big Screen about the Final 4 on ESPN..I'm jacked up..It's only 8:19am during march madness and Dicky has me ready to go to war!
/The best time of the year!
Duke, Duke, Duke, Duke of Hoops....
| 164 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Mar 28, 2010 5:25:14am |
re: #163 SteveC
Duke, Duke, Duke, Duke of Hoops...
The way things are going, they'll prolly get bounced today!
| 165 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Mar 28, 2010 5:26:19am |
re: #162 sattv4u2
what does that have to do with my sucky breakfast!?!?!
Hot Pockets suck. By Jimmy Dean stuff for breakfast.
| 167 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Mar 28, 2010 5:28:12am |
re: #165 Cannadian Club Akbar
Hot Pockets suck. By Jimmy Dean stuff for breakfast.
Yeah ,, I usually do, but there was a sale and I got them just to have something in the freezer here at work
| 168 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Mar 28, 2010 5:30:03am |
re: #167 sattv4u2
Yeah ,, I usually do, but there was a sale and I got them just to have something in the freezer here at work
My last job (when I worked outside in the direct sunlight), I kept about 100 Otter Pops in the freezer at the shop. Nice on a hot day.
| 169 |
MandyManners Sun, Mar 28, 2010 5:31:30am |
In theory, there is nothing to stop Pope Benedict taking a piece of paper out of his writing desk and drafting a letter of resignation to hand to the College of Cardinals, the supreme electoral body of the Catholic Church.Under Canon Law, the only conditions for the validity of such a resignation are that it be made freely and be properly published.
SNIP
| 170 |
Digital Display Sun, Mar 28, 2010 5:32:19am |
re: #162 sattv4u2
what does that have to do with my sucky breakfast!?!?!
It started out last night..I watched Butler win and go to the final four
Then I'm a huge F1 fan so I watched the Aussie F! live overnight..Button won..Totally awesome..Then watched Gran Torino on HBO Then have been soaking up all the ESPN Highlights of March Madness...I'll catch a nap before the next set of games..
I have food..Beer and basketball on today....I'm very happy
| 171 |
MandyManners Sun, Mar 28, 2010 5:33:41am |
In his Palm Sunday address the Pope said that Jesus Christ "leads us towards courage which does not allow us to be intimidated by the chatter of dominant opinions, towards patience which supports and sustains others".
The pontiff did not refer to accusations over his handling of cases of paedophile priests, both as Archbishop of Munich from 1977 to 1982 and subsequently as head of doctrine at the Vatican. However, Vatican watchers said his meaning today was clear "in the current context".
SNIP
So, the demands for accountability are merely "chatter"?
| 172 |
Walter L. Newton Sun, Mar 28, 2010 5:36:02am |
Really... left, right, independent... this statement should speak volumes to the real intent of this administration...
Between President Obama's very public statements (more than once) about "spreading the wealth," John Dingell's comment last week about "control the people" and statement like Baucus' above, I wish the Democrats would at least tell the truth, stop spinning their intentions and come right out and admit to the obvious... they intend to steer this country to, in the least, a American version of socialism-lite.
Why not just admit it?
| 173 |
MandyManners Sun, Mar 28, 2010 5:36:36am |
A number of Roman Catholic prelates have strongly urged the Holy See that such an extraordinary synod, or conference, be held on the grounds that the German pontiff and the Vatican evidently cannot cope effectively on their own with the spiralling image crisis.
"There is a deep feeling of unease in the Vatican at the moment," said one well-placed source in the Holy See. "Senior people in the Curia feel under siege from parts of the international media as they see it trying to nail the Pope for allegedly covering up or mishandling abuse cases.
"Many bishops have let it be known they want Benedict to convene a special synod or worldwide conference of bishops to examine the problem because of a growing feeling that the Vatican cannot handle this."
The source added: "There is a realisation that the scandal is not going to stop. It is not one country or five countries but an increasing number."
SNIP
| 174 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Mar 28, 2010 5:37:25am |
re: #170 HoosierHoops
I have food..Beer and basketball on today...I'm very happy
And I have an hour and a half left of my 5th 12 hour overnight shift in a row, after which I shall head home, take the dogs to the park, then plant my ass in bed knowing I don't have to be back here (work) till 10 p.m. Tuesday night
I'm very happy also
| 175 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Mar 28, 2010 5:39:22am |
re: #172 Walter L. Newton
Because it's more important to label the opposition as the party of "NO"
| 176 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Mar 28, 2010 5:39:53am |
| 177 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Mar 28, 2010 5:40:29am |
re: #172 Walter L. Newton
But, but, the are smarter than us! They know what is best for us! And if you try to call Obama a socialist, you are racist!
| 178 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Mar 28, 2010 5:42:18am |
re: #177 Cannadian Club Akbar
But, but, the are smarter than us! They know what is best for us! And if you try to call Obama a socialist, you are racist!
hell ,,, you don't even have to call him ANY name. By merely opposing his policies or having not voted for him will result in the same charge from some circles
| 179 |
MandyManners Sun, Mar 28, 2010 5:42:44am |
The vote late Friday to strip Wilmer Azuaje of his immunity from prosecution comes as critics are accusing Chavez's government of targeting his foes with laws that are ignored when broken by his friends.
A former Chavez ally, Azuaje has alleged corruption by members of Chavez's family in their home state of Barinas - accusations the family has denied.
"I haven't committed any crime," Azuaje said Saturday after 105 lawmakers voted for the measure to remove his immunity and six opposed it. Azuaje also argued a two-thirds majority for the full 167-seat assembly, 112 votes, was required.
SNIP
Globovision, the only remaining anti-Chavez television channel, noted lawmakers took no such action in 2007 when pro-Chavez lawmaker Iris Varela repeatedly slapped a journalist in the face and hit him with a microphone. The channel replayed that on-air confrontation Friday as lawmakers were considering whether to lift Azuaje's immunity.
SNIP
In the past week, an opposition politician and the owner of Globovision were charged for making remarks against Chavez and his government that authorities deemed false and offensive.
SNIP
| 180 |
Digital Display Sun, Mar 28, 2010 5:43:17am |
re: #174 sattv4u2
I have food..Beer and basketball on today...I'm very happy
And I have an hour and a half left of my 5th 12 hour overnight shift in a row, after which I shall head home, take the dogs to the park, then plant my ass in bed knowing I don't have to be back here (work) till 10 p.m. Tuesday night
I'm very happy also
LOL
This week in Indiana will be in the upper 70's.. Every fricking night I'm Golfing after work..Finally nice weather...I'm opening the pool soon..This is the best time of the year...
| 181 |
MandyManners Sun, Mar 28, 2010 5:43:36am |
re: #172 Walter L. Newton
Really... left, right, independent... this statement should speak volumes to the real intent of this administration...
Between President Obama's very public statements (more than once) about "spreading the wealth," John Dingell's comment last week about "control the people" and statement like Baucus' above, I wish the Democrats would at least tell the truth, stop spinning their intentions and come right out and admit to the obvious... they intend to steer this country to, in the least, a American version of socialism-lite.
Why not just admit it?
"Lite"?
| 182 |
RogueOne Sun, Mar 28, 2010 5:43:36am |
re: #172 Walter L. Newton
I'm enjoying their attempt at calling the health care fine a tax deduction. The fact that they can say it with a straight face adds extra credit.
| 183 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Mar 28, 2010 5:45:45am |
re: #182 RogueOne
I'm enjoying their attempt at calling the health care fine a tax deduction. The fact that they can say it with a straight face adds extra credit.
And I love how they have ingrained it into the psyche that health care is a 'right'
I have the right to own a gun, but if I decide NOT too, I don't get fined
I have the right to free speech, but if I remain silent, I don't get fined
I now have the right to health care, but if I don't buy it ,,,,, oh ,, wait ,, shit!!
| 184 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Mar 28, 2010 5:48:59am |
re: #183 sattv4u2
Johne Deere takes a hit.
Caterpillar takes a hit.
And now..
[Link: www.businessweek.com...]
| 185 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Mar 28, 2010 5:55:14am |
re: #184 Cannadian Club Akbar
Johne Deere takes a hit.
Caterpillar takes a hit.
And now..
[Link: www.businessweek.com...]
AT&T, the biggest U.S. phone company, joins Caterpillar Inc., AK Steel Holding Corp. and 3M Co. in recording non-cash expenses against earnings as a result of the law
ahh ,, They're just big greedy corporations. They can just write it off. It just means all those fat cats sitting in their boardrooms will get less outlandish bonuses. Its' not like they'll have to charge more or lay workers off! Screw them.!!
(lefty mode)
| 186 |
keloyd Sun, Mar 28, 2010 5:55:26am |
I'm with Satnav4u2 on this one.
OTOH, we are forced to buy into Medicare. The grounds that it is 'insurance' is some pretty transparent windowdressing. It's one more tax and one more transfer payment like any other welfare check. The 'insurance' talk is just to make old folks feel better. Still, despite my philosophical objections, it's a net good idea. IF we have Constitutional grounds to not be forced to by medical insurance, then why do we also not have Constitutional grounds to opt out of Medicare?
Also, for the time being, while the gubment can play games with reimbursement rates, and pay less than the going rate for services, doctors have the right to not take medicare/medicaid patients. I doubt this will last. The noose always tightens over time.
| 187 |
freetoken Sun, Mar 28, 2010 5:55:36am |
re: #184 Cannadian Club Akbar
From your link:
AT&T previously received a tax-free benefit from the government to subsidize health-care costs for retirees, who would otherwise be on a Medicare Part D plan. Under the new bill, AT&T will no longer be able to deduct that subsidy.
I can't recall when I've seen so many "conservatives" trying to complain about the ending of government subsidies.
What an upside down world.
| 188 |
MandyManners Sun, Mar 28, 2010 5:56:26am |
re: #172 Walter L. Newton
Croly eagerly awaited the day when America would be governed by a cadre of social-science "experts," much like those who will staff the 100 new federal boards and bureaucracies that will soon oversee Obamacare.
SNIP
Croly was a founder of the Progressive Movement, which roared onto the American scene around 1870 with the goal of "overhauling" life here from top to bottom. Obama, Pelosi and Co. are its heirs -- indeed, they call themselves "progressives," having largely abandoned the term "liberal" because of the many recent policy failures with which the public associates that word.
The Progressive Movement's far-reaching goal was to reorganize America along "rational" lines. Its adherents maintained that, for their project to succeed, ordinary citizens would have to cede policymaking power to experts -- social scientists, lawyers -- who alone possessed the knowledge to devise and administer the complex, government-run plans that they promised would finally solve age-old social problems like poverty and crime.
SNIP
As the 20th century opened, the Progressive Movement offered power and status to a rising new professional class. Progressives generally despised businessmen as greedy, and looked down on average people as ignorant and foolishly enamored of religion (or, as Obama might put it, as still clinging to their "guns or religion"). Progressives viewed themselves, by contrast, as disinterested "scientists" intent on the public good.
SNIP
| 189 |
RogueOne Sun, Mar 28, 2010 5:58:07am |
Hey Hoops, I was just reminded Candlebox is playing Saturday night in Indy. I just saw them last year, their '93 album is one of my favorites of that decade.
Far Behind
| 190 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Mar 28, 2010 5:58:56am |
re: #187 freetoken
From your link:
I can't recall when I've seen so many "conservatives" trying to complain about the ending of government subsidies.
What an upside down world.
So giving a tax break (where the corp turns around and uses that money to invest in itself with upgrades and jobs) is a subsidy?
Do you deduct your mortgage interest on your taxes? break, or subsidy?
Do you get a lower rate for it being your prime residence? break, or subsidy?
| 191 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Mar 28, 2010 5:59:24am |
re: #187 freetoken
So AT&T got a tax break vs. people going on Medicare Part D?
Apples and apples. I was also against Medicare Part D.
| 192 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Mar 28, 2010 6:01:18am |
re: #187 freetoken
re: #190 sattv4u2
So giving a tax break (where the corp turns around and uses that money to invest in itself with upgrades and jobs) is a subsidy?
Do you deduct your mortgage interest on your taxes? break, or subsidy?
Do you get a lower rate for it being your prime residence? break, or subsidy?
AND ,, even with those "subsidies", US based businesses STILL have a higher corporate tax rate than many other industrialized nations
| 193 |
RogueOne Sun, Mar 28, 2010 6:02:25am |
re: #187 freetoken
From your link:
I can't recall when I've seen so many "conservatives" trying to complain about the ending of government subsidies.
What an upside down world.
Those subsidies were saving Medicare costs which will now have to be absorbed somewhere.
| 194 |
freetoken Sun, Mar 28, 2010 6:03:07am |
| 195 |
MandyManners Sun, Mar 28, 2010 6:03:39am |
re: #186 keloyd
I'm with Satnav4u2 on this one.
OTOH, we are forced to buy into Medicare. The grounds that it is 'insurance' is some pretty transparent windowdressing. It's one more tax and one more transfer payment like any other welfare check. The 'insurance' talk is just to make old folks feel better. Still, despite my philosophical objections, it's a net good idea. IF we have Constitutional grounds to not be forced to by medical insurance, then why do we also not have Constitutional grounds to opt out of Medicare?
Also, for the time being, while the gubment can play games with reimbursement rates, and pay less than the going rate for services, doctors have the right to not take medicare/medicaid patients. I doubt this will last. The noose always tightens over time.
Can Congress pass a law prohibiting this? I'm seeing First and Fourteenth Amendment challenges.
| 196 |
RogueOne Sun, Mar 28, 2010 6:04:04am |
re: #191 Cannadian Club Akbar
So AT&T got a tax break vs. people going on Medicare Part D?
Apples and apples. I was also against Medicare Part D.
That's exactly right. This is going to inflate the Medicare rolls. I'd like to blame the law of unintended consequences but I don't think it's a bug, I think it's a feature. It's step one of the overall vision, a single-payer system.
| 197 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Mar 28, 2010 6:06:57am |
re: #187 freetoken
AT&T previously received a tax-free benefit from the government to subsidize health-care costs for retirees, who would otherwise be on a Medicare Part D plan. Under the new bill, AT&T will no longer be able to deduct that subsidy.
Too bad you didn't include the next paragraph
“As a result of this legislation, including the additional tax burden, AT&T will be evaluating prospective changes to the active and retiree health-care benefits offered by the company,” the carrier said in the filing.
SO ,,, IF AT&T cuts bennies, where will those people be forced to go to make up for it !?!?!
| 198 |
Decatur Deb Sun, Mar 28, 2010 6:09:27am |
Good Morning, nightshift. Checking in for a Palm Sunday drive-by. I wish I had hit the top of this thread--Nationalism vs. Globalism might turn out to be the real historical struggle of our times.
| 199 |
keloyd Sun, Mar 28, 2010 6:10:26am |
re: #195 MandyManners
If Obama's reforms get fought out in the Supreme court the way FDR's were, that would be very fun to watch. Back in the day the court's lifetime appointment meant 5 or 10 years before the Angel of Death imposed term limits, now that it means 30, that means pundits will have job security for decades.
| 200 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Mar 28, 2010 6:11:12am |
re: #196 RogueOne
That's exactly right. This is going to inflate the Medicare rolls. I'd like to blame the law of unintended consequences but I don't think it's a bug, I think it's a feature. It's step one of the overall vision, a single-payer system.
at the same time there is a 500 billion cut in funding!
More people on the rolls with less money to take care of them
naaah ,, theres NO way there will be rationing!!
| 201 |
MandyManners Sun, Mar 28, 2010 6:11:47am |
re: #188 MandyManners
“Education. Health care. Two of the most important pillars of a strong America grew stronger this week. These achievements don’t represent the end of our challenges; nor do they signify the end of the work that faces our country. But what they do represent is real and major reform,” Obama said.
SNIP
| 202 |
MandyManners Sun, Mar 28, 2010 6:13:54am |
re: #199 keloyd
If Obama's reforms get fought out in the Supreme court the way FDR's were, that would be very fun to watch. Back in the day the court's lifetime appointment meant 5 or 10 years before the Angel of Death imposed term limits, now that it means 30, that means pundits will have job security for decades.
I was amused at BHO and his flackies' denunciations of challenges all last week. Protest too much?
| 203 |
keloyd Sun, Mar 28, 2010 6:17:23am |
re: #198 Decatur Deb
me too. That's the hazard of the LGF blog - if you want to say something you think is smart, 20 people may make your point first. I was on an H.G. Wells kick many years ago. European intellectuals hated nationalism after WW1, and Wells' commentary, fiction, and nonfiction were seething with this frustration. Guess what, if your team is all about singing kumbaya, someone else who is stronger, more tuned into human nature, and speaks German, will fill the void, then try and kick your arse.
Tribalism is like sex. It's deep in our DNA. You can put it to good use or not. It is as 'good' or 'evil' as sex. Try to supress it, and people go a bit funny - kind of like how teenage girls who sign 'chastity vows' are more likely to have anal sex before they're 16.
| 204 |
Walter L. Newton Sun, Mar 28, 2010 6:18:22am |
re: #187 freetoken
From your link:
I can't recall when I've seen so many "conservatives" trying to complain about the ending of government subsidies.
What an upside down world.
"So many 'conservatives'" Do you think you could give us a ballpark count on how many that is?
| 205 |
MandyManners Sun, Mar 28, 2010 6:18:59am |
In a thinly-veiled attack on Labour, they claim that traditional beliefs on issues such as marriage are no longer being upheld and call on the major parties to address the issue in the run-up to the general election.
In a letter to The Sunday Telegraph, the bishops express their deep disquiet at the double standards of public sector employers, claiming that Christians are punished while followers of other faiths are treated far more sensitively.
SNIP
Their intervention follows a series of cases in which Christians have been dismissed after seeking to express their faith. They highlight the plight of Shirley Chaplin, a nurse who was banned from working on hospital wards for wearing a cross around her neck. This week she will begin a legal battle against the decision.
SNIPMrs Chaplin will take the Royal Devon and Exeter NHS Trust to an employment tribunal this week after she was told last year that she must hide or remove a small cross on her necklace if she wanted to continue working on hospital wards.
While the trust refused to grant her an exemption, it makes concessions for other faiths, including allowing Muslim nurses to wear headscarves on duty.
Mrs Chaplin, 54, has spent all of her career at the Exeter hospital and had never been challenged before over the necklace, which she has worn since her confirmation 38 years ago.
The bishops criticised the way in which Mrs Chaplin had been treated and stated that she should not be prevented from expressing her faith by wearing her cross.
"This is yet another case in which the religious rights of the Christian community are being treated with disrespect," they say.
"To be asked by an employer to remove or 'hide' the cross is asking the Christian to hide their faith.”
The bishops said that it was “deeply disturbing” that the NHS trust’s uniform policy permits exemptions for religious clothing, but appears to regard the cross as “just an item of jewellery”.
SNIP
| 206 |
Varek Raith Sun, Mar 28, 2010 6:20:04am |
Crisis averted!
My eeevil cat knocked over a 20oz cup of water onto my laptop while it was on yesterday morning. After 24 hours of drying, and taking it apart to make sure, all is well.
:)
| 207 |
freetoken Sun, Mar 28, 2010 6:20:06am |
re: #197 sattv4u2
Why is it too bad - certainly I expect people to go read the links themselves.
The point I was making is the artificiality of the presentation of so many of the objections to the HCR act.
Yes, an earlier administration and congress, Republican btw, instituted a medical drug benefit. Some private companies covered retirees, so those people didn't go directly on a government program, yet the costs were still socialized through the tax system.
Now a later administration, and Congress, decide it would be more efficient to try a different approach, one that is part of a larger initiative to get people who don't have coverage via health insurance into insurance programs.
An approach that itself was proposed by, among other people, different Republican think tanks or politicians.
Yet now it is framed as some great socialist takeover by President Obama.
| 208 |
Walter L. Newton Sun, Mar 28, 2010 6:20:27am |
re: #203 keloyd
me too. That's the hazard of the LGF blog - if you want to say something you think is smart, 20 people may make your point first. I was on an H.G. Wells kick many years ago. European intellectuals hated nationalism after WW1, and Wells' commentary, fiction, and nonfiction were seething with this frustration. Guess what, if your team is all about singing kumbaya, someone else who is stronger, more tuned into human nature, and speaks German, will fill the void, then try and kick your arse.
Tribalism is like sex. It's deep in our DNA. You can put it to good use or not. It is as 'good' or 'evil' as sex. Try to supress it, and people go a bit funny - kind of like how teenage girls who sign 'chastity vows' are more likely to have anal sex before they're 16.
Not if they have a "Pillow Pants."
| 209 |
freetoken Sun, Mar 28, 2010 6:21:23am |
re: #204 Walter L. Newton
No, I don't think I could, yet these links (to ATT and Caterpillar stories) have been posted several times here at LGF, and are quite prominent throughout the right-o-sphere.
| 210 |
RogueOne Sun, Mar 28, 2010 6:21:54am |
re: #206 Varek Raith
Crisis averted!
My eeevil cat knocked over a 20oz cup of water onto my laptop while it was on yesterday morning. After 24 hours of drying, and taking it apart to make sure, all is well.
:)
Congrats, what brand?
| 211 |
Varek Raith Sun, Mar 28, 2010 6:22:16am |
| 212 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Mar 28, 2010 6:22:33am |
re: #207 freetoken
The point I was making is the artificiality of the presentation of so many of the objections to the HCR act.
"artificiality"!?!?!
This was one of THE prime objections to the bill. Now many major companies employing HUGE numbers of people with HUGE numbers of others being covered by their retirement packages are coming out with real numbers of how it will impact them!
| 213 |
keloyd Sun, Mar 28, 2010 6:23:27am |
re: #208 Walter L. Newton
Now you're going to have me thinking about Clerks all the way through church.
| 214 |
Walter L. Newton Sun, Mar 28, 2010 6:23:32am |
re: #207 freetoken
Why is it too bad - certainly I expect people to go read the links themselves.
The point I was making is the artificiality of the presentation of so many of the objections to the HCR act.
Yes, an earlier administration and congress, Republican btw, instituted a medical drug benefit. Some private companies covered retirees, so those people didn't go directly on a government program, yet the costs were still socialized through the tax system.
Now a later administration, and Congress, decide it would be more efficient to try a different approach, one that is part of a larger initiative to get people who don't have coverage via health insurance into insurance programs.
An approach that itself was proposed by, among other people, different Republican think tanks or politicians.
Yet now it is framed as some great socialist takeover by President Obama.
Nope.. some socialist-lite. It seems Obama and members of his party and administration have much less problem telling us truthfully what they are working toward. John Dingell's and Baucus certainly made it clear in the last week.
You seem to be the only one who has to spin it over and over.
| 215 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Mar 28, 2010 6:24:18am |
re: #207 freetoken
An approach that itself was proposed by, among other people, different Republican think tanks or politicians.
Yet now it is framed as some great socialist takeover by President Obama.
Yeah ,, because under the Repub think tanks and pols it was MANDATED that all buy into it or else be fined
oh ,, wait ,,,, shit!
| 216 |
MandyManners Sun, Mar 28, 2010 6:24:19am |
The proposal, which would have to be approved by a new British government, is facing stiff resistance. Whitehall officials fear that a pull-out from Helmand, where nearly 250 British troops have been killed since 2006, would be portrayed as an admission of defeat.
Under the plans, British forces would hand over their remaining bases in Helmand to the US Marines as early as this year.
SNIP
| 217 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Mar 28, 2010 6:25:34am |
re: #209 freetoken
No, I don't think I could, yet these links (to ATT and Caterpillar stories) have been posted several times here at LGF, and are quite prominent throughout the right-o-sphere.
That didn't deter you from touting it as "so many"
| 218 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Mar 28, 2010 6:26:49am |
re: #214 Walter L. Newton
Nope.. some socialist-lite. It seems Obama and members of his party and administration have much less problem telling us truthfully what they are working toward. John Dingell's and Baucus certainly made it clear in the last week.
You seem to be the only one who has to spin it over and over.
They mispoke
Dingall was "tired'
They were taken out of context
(and when all else fails)
IT'S BUSH'S FAULT!
| 219 |
freetoken Sun, Mar 28, 2010 6:28:06am |
re: #217 sattv4u2
Would you prefer I had said "a great many"?
| 220 |
Walter L. Newton Sun, Mar 28, 2010 6:28:29am |
re: #218 sattv4u2
They mispoke
Dingall was "tired'
They were taken out of context(and when all else fails)
IT'S BUSH'S FAULT!
Fine... but Baucas' statement is clear as a bell, and no one is trying to spin it away since he made the statement.
“This is also an income shift,” Baucus said. “It’s a shift, a leveling toward lower-income Americans.” Americans’ income distribution has been thrown off in recent years, he said. “The wealthy are getting way too wealthy,” Baucus said. “This will help to address that maldistribution among all Americans.”
Plain and simple.
| 221 |
Decatur Deb Sun, Mar 28, 2010 6:28:47am |
re: #203 keloyd
me too. That's the hazard of the LGF blog - if you want to say something you think is smart, 20 people may make your point first. I was on an H.G. Wells kick many years ago. European intellectuals hated nationalism after WW1, and Wells' commentary, fiction, and nonfiction were seething with this frustration. Guess what, if your team is all about singing kumbaya, someone else who is stronger, more tuned into human nature, and speaks German, will fill the void, then try and kick your arse.
Tribalism is like sex. It's deep in our DNA. You can put it to good use or not. It is as 'good' or 'evil' as sex. Try to supress it, and people go a bit funny - kind of like how teenage girls who sign 'chastity vows' are more likely to have anal sex before they're 16.
Because we are so engulfed in the change, we will all be dead before historians decide whether the nationalists or the globalists were "right". If you accept a nationalist/tribalist/patriotic point of view, the guy who moves his tubesock manufacturing offshore, and the lady who buys the socks, could be a traitors. If the globalist is right, she is the New Realistic Patriot.
I'll probably save this for a resurrection of the discussion (should come around in a couple weeks.).
| 222 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Mar 28, 2010 6:29:28am |
re: #219 freetoken
Would you prefer I had said "a great many"?
If thats what you meant, sure. Be honest. IS it what you believe?
| 224 |
SixDegrees Sun, Mar 28, 2010 6:30:57am |
re: #201 MandyManners
SNIP
The two are coupled. Student loans will now be disbursed directly by the government, rather than going through banks as an intermediary. And despite "cutting out the middle man," interest rates charged on student loans will be increased. Why? The excess will be diverted to pay for a portion of the health care reform legislation.
Meanwhile, the cost of coverage will increase almost immediately, no matter where you obtain it from, thanks to the various reforms enacted.
None of which even begins to cover the cost of the enormous new bureaucracy that will be created to administer and enforce this legislation, beginning with a requirement for over 15000 new IRS agents.
I note, too, that the total cost of your health care coverage will now be listed on your W2. You will soon be paying taxes on that, as well, in addition to your ordinary income.
| 225 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Mar 28, 2010 6:30:59am |
re: #220 Walter L. Newton
Fine... but Baucas' statement is clear as a bell, and no one is trying to spin it away since he made the statement.
“This is also an income shift,” Baucus said. “It’s a shift, a leveling toward lower-income Americans.” Americans’ income distribution has been thrown off in recent years, he said. “The wealthy are getting way too wealthy,” Baucus said. “This will help to address that maldistribution among all Americans.”
Plain and simple.
And beside it being a 10 second bite on some of the MSM reportage,
yawn!
| 226 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Mar 28, 2010 6:31:16am |
re: #223 Varek Raith
Heh, Recess Appointments, WAAAHHH!!!
XD
John Bolton. WAA!!
/they all do it. and the other side always cries.
| 227 |
Varek Raith Sun, Mar 28, 2010 6:31:36am |
re: #226 Cannadian Club Akbar
John Bolton. WAA!!
/they all do it. and the other side always cries.
Which is why I'm laughing!
XD
| 228 |
Walter L. Newton Sun, Mar 28, 2010 6:32:03am |
re: #209 freetoken
No, I don't think I could, yet these links (to ATT and Caterpillar stories) have been posted several times here at LGF, and are quite prominent throughout the right-o-sphere.
Explain these comments by Baucas when he was taling about the health reform bill that passed...
“This is also an income shift,” Baucus said. “It’s a shift, a leveling toward lower-income Americans.” Americans’ income distribution has been thrown off in recent years, he said. “The wealthy are getting way too wealthy,” Baucus said. “This will help to address that maldistribution among all Americans.”
| 229 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Mar 28, 2010 6:33:32am |
re: #224 SixDegrees
I work in an industry where it is so easy to deal in cash. I see my future income dropping.:)
| 230 |
RogueOne Sun, Mar 28, 2010 6:34:24am |
re: #207 freetoken
Taking $14 Billion in revenue out of a weak economy and adding to a medicare system that's almost bankrupt, and a Doc fix coming up, seems like a pretty weak idea of "efficiency".
| 231 |
Walter L. Newton Sun, Mar 28, 2010 6:35:09am |
re: #225 sattv4u2
And beside it being a 10 second bite on some of the MSM reportage,
yawn!
That ten second comment will be some of the best evidence of what the administration has planned for the future of this country... and it will be a highlight of the up coming campaigns... mark my word. And no amount of spin by the left is going to change the simple plain meaning of what he said.
He outed the whole administration.
| 232 |
Decatur Deb Sun, Mar 28, 2010 6:35:12am |
re: #228 Walter L. Newton
Explain these comments by Baucas when he was taling about the health reform bill that passed...
“This is also an income shift,” Baucus said. “It’s a shift, a leveling toward lower-income Americans.” Americans’ income distribution has been thrown off in recent years, he said. “The wealthy are getting way too wealthy,” Baucus said. “This will help to address that maldistribution among all Americans.”
"This is what happens when the poor get too poor or the rich get too rich."
--Peal Buck, The Good Earth
| 233 |
Only The Lurker Knows Sun, Mar 28, 2010 6:36:11am |
Calling it night. Trying stay in control
Nuff said.
But we do have a buffer zone.
L8R Lizards
I hope you're day is good.
And btw, Charles, can we get rid of the http:// in the link box? It is
| 234 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Mar 28, 2010 6:36:24am |
re: #230 RogueOne
Taking $14 Billion in revenue out of a weak economy and adding to a medicare system that's almost bankrupt, and a Doc fix coming up, seems like a pretty weak idea of "efficiency".
C'Mon ,, you know as well as I do that that 14 billion is in the mattresses of those greedy corporate fat cats and never gets back 'into" the economy, so no big deal!
/(must I)!?!?
| 235 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Mar 28, 2010 6:37:27am |
re: #231 Walter L. Newton
That ten second comment will be some of the best evidence of what the administration has planned for the future of this country... and it will be a highlight of the up coming campaigns... mark my word. And no amount of spin by the left is going to change the simple plain meaning of what he said.
He outed the whole administration.
There's a bus headed his way to be under!
| 236 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Mar 28, 2010 6:37:46am |
re: #234 sattv4u2
C'Mon ,, you know as well as I do that that 14 billion is in the mattresses of those greedy corporate fat cats and never gets back 'into" the economy, so no big deal!
/(must I)!?!?
Heh.
[Link: www.nypost.com...]
| 237 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Mar 28, 2010 6:39:20am |
re: #231 Walter L. Newton
That ten second comment will be some of the best evidence of what the administration has planned for the future of this country... and it will be a highlight of the up coming campaigns... mark my word. And no amount of spin by the left is going to change the simple plain meaning of what he said.
He outed the whole administration.
"The repubs are going negative"
"The repubs have no ideas, so they have to run on this"
((gggeeezz ,,,, I could work for these guys!!)))
| 238 |
RogueOne Sun, Mar 28, 2010 6:39:26am |
re: #224 SixDegrees
I'm at a loss as to how anyone can think the government running the loan program themselves is going to "save" money. Someone has to do the work and government jobs generally have higher salaries and benefits. There will be no savings.
| 239 |
Only The Lurker Knows Sun, Mar 28, 2010 6:39:37am |
re: #233 Bubblehead II
A pain in the but to have to delete before posting a link
| 240 |
sandbox Sun, Mar 28, 2010 6:40:58am |
KSM trial issue to return
[Link: www.politico.com...]
Hopefully this will result in the resignation of Eric Holder as AT.
| 242 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Mar 28, 2010 6:41:39am |
re: #238 RogueOne
I'm at a loss as to how anyone can think the government running the loan program themselves is going to "save" money. Someone has to do the work and government jobs generally have higher salaries and benefits. There will be no savings.
Gubment workers make more money? No..
[Link: www.politico.com...]
| 243 |
RogueOne Sun, Mar 28, 2010 6:41:53am |
re: #227 Varek Raith
Which is why I'm laughing!
XD
I'm not real happy with the Becker appointment to the NLRB. That would be like a republican president putting Brent Bozell, or even Tipper Gore, on the FCC.
| 244 |
Decatur Deb Sun, Mar 28, 2010 6:42:19am |
re: #231 Walter L. Newton
He outed the whole administration.
They might not have used the specific "socialism-lite" metaphor, but these various statements show the left-Dems were never in the closet. (Yous do have to make exception for the Bobby Bright-ish Dems.)
| 245 |
RogueOne Sun, Mar 28, 2010 6:42:52am |
re: #236 Cannadian Club Akbar
Heh.
[Link: www.nypost.com...]
You know the Post is loving that story.
| 247 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Mar 28, 2010 6:44:25am |
Damn ,, it's staring to rain!
That means when I get home from work I won't be able to
take the dogs to the park
mow the back yard
put the 3rd coat of stain on the front door
I WILL have to climb into my jammies, get in bed, turn on the TV and fall blissfully asleep
Damn my luck!!
| 248 |
Sheila Broflovski Sun, Mar 28, 2010 6:44:56am |
Good morning Lizardia. The hordes invade today. My youngest daughter is already here.
| 249 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Mar 28, 2010 6:45:01am |
I can't remember if the House or Senate cafeteria loses money (one of them does) but I should send in my resume to run it and make 100K.:)
| 250 |
Decatur Deb Sun, Mar 28, 2010 6:45:30am |
re: #242 Cannadian Club Akbar
Gubment workers make more money? No..
[Link: www.politico.com...]
The differences between Gov worker-bee pay and the pay in private industry varies almost randomly by career field. I'm sure no one in the Gov is making 1-3 hundred million per year.
| 251 |
MandyManners Sun, Mar 28, 2010 6:45:44am |
re: #209 freetoken
No, I don't think I could, yet these links (to ATT and Caterpillar stories) have been posted several times here at LGF, and are quite prominent throughout the right-o-sphere.
re: #224 SixDegrees
The two are coupled. Student loans will now be disbursed directly by the government, rather than going through banks as an intermediary. And despite "cutting out the middle man," interest rates charged on student loans will be increased. Why? The excess will be diverted to pay for a portion of the health care reform legislation.
Meanwhile, the cost of coverage will increase almost immediately, no matter where you obtain it from, thanks to the various reforms enacted.
None of which even begins to cover the cost of the enormous new bureaucracy that will be created to administer and enforce this legislation, beginning with a requirement for over 15000 new IRS agents.
I note, too, that the total cost of your health care coverage will now be listed on your W2. You will soon be paying taxes on that, as well, in addition to your ordinary income.
Fucking Commies.
| 252 |
Walter L. Newton Sun, Mar 28, 2010 6:46:29am |
re: #244 Decatur Deb
They might not have used the specific "socialism-lite" metaphor, but these various statements show the left-Dems were never in the closet. (Yous do have to make exception for the Bobby Bright-ish Dems.)
And the only thing I'm "complaining" about is the fact that this direction that the left has been going in has been hotly denied by the left, yet, we have seen a proliferation of plain and simple statements like this recently.
I would just like to see people stand on the principals that they embrace, and stop trying to soft pedal their positions.
| 253 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Mar 28, 2010 6:46:37am |
re: #250 Decatur Deb
The differences between Gov worker-bee pay and the pay in private industry varies almost randomly by career field. I'm sure no one in the Gov is making 1-3 hundred million per year.
Media
"Babe, last year you got paid more than the President of the USA"
Babe Ruth
"Well, I had a better year!"
| 254 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Mar 28, 2010 6:47:17am |
re: #250 Decatur Deb
The differences between Gov worker-bee pay and the pay in private industry varies almost randomly by career field. I'm sure no one in the Gov is making 1-3 hundred million per year.
Someone making the D'oh you are talking about (1-3 hundred million) isn't a worker bee.
| 255 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Mar 28, 2010 6:48:15am |
re: #250 Decatur Deb
The differences between Gov worker-bee pay and the pay in private industry varies almost randomly by career field. I'm sure no one in the Gov is making 1-3 hundred million per year.
Not while IN gov't ,,,, but it sure is a gateway drug
Hello Mr Bill Clinton,, How ya doing, Mr Al Gore
| 256 |
RogueOne Sun, Mar 28, 2010 6:48:16am |
More on Sheriff Joe:
Joe Arpaio on False McDonald's Arrest:
Take All Brown People into Custody, Release Citizens Later
If you're Hispanic in Maricopa County, Sheriff Joe's goons have probable cause to arrest you on suspicion of being undocumented. Hey, they can always release you later.That's the word from the elephant's mouth after an MCSO raid on four area McDonald's yesterday that netted an American citizen, Viridiana Ramirez, who was cuffed and held for four hours as she pleaded with MCSO thugs that she was born in this country and could prove it.
What was Arpaio's response to the news that his Kris Kobach-trained deputies has violated the civil rights of a single mother and terrorized her no end?
"That's just normal police work, " he shrugged in a news conference following the raid. "Sometimes you do have probable cause, you do take people in for questioning, and they're released."
So it's arrest 'em if they're brown first, and sort 'em out later. False arrest and imprisonment be damned.
Perhaps the U.S. Department of Justice and the FBI should follow Arpaio's way of doing things. There's probable cause enough out there that Arpaio's deprived others of their civil rights and done so under the color of law.
So arrest him, and sort out the details later.
[Link: blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com...]
| 257 |
MandyManners Sun, Mar 28, 2010 6:48:26am |
re: #224 SixDegrees
The two are coupled. Student loans will now be disbursed directly by the government, rather than going through banks as an intermediary. And despite "cutting out the middle man," interest rates charged on student loans will be increased. Why? The excess will be diverted to pay for a portion of the health care reform legislation.
Meanwhile, the cost of coverage will increase almost immediately, no matter where you obtain it from, thanks to the various reforms enacted.
None of which even begins to cover the cost of the enormous new bureaucracy that will be created to administer and enforce this legislation, beginning with a requirement for over 15000 new IRS agents.
I note, too, that the total cost of your health care coverage will now be listed on your W2. You will soon be paying taxes on that, as well, in addition to your ordinary income.
What was it BHO said to Joe Wurzelbacher about spreading the wealth?
| 258 |
Decatur Deb Sun, Mar 28, 2010 6:48:58am |
re: #252 Walter L. Newton
And the only thing I'm "complaining" about is the fact that this direction that the left has been going in has been hotly denied by the left, yet, we have seen a proliferation of plain and simple statements like this recently.
I would just like to see people stand on the principals that they embrace, and stop trying to soft pedal their positions.
Since I'm on the inside, I might not see the leftist denial. Balancing the income spread is pretty much what my favorite part of the left is for.
| 259 |
Sheila Broflovski Sun, Mar 28, 2010 6:49:15am |
| 260 |
MandyManners Sun, Mar 28, 2010 6:49:32am |
re: #252 Walter L. Newton
And the only thing I'm "complaining" about is the fact that this direction that the left has been going in has been hotly denied by the left, yet, we have seen a proliferation of plain and simple statements like this recently.
I would just like to see people stand on the principals that they embrace, and stop trying to soft pedal their positions.
If they did, they might not get re-elected.
| 261 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Mar 28, 2010 6:50:10am |
re: #258 Decatur Deb
Since I'm on the inside, I might not see the leftist denial. Balancing the income spread is pretty much what my favorite part of the left is for.
And one of my least favs
We have a guarantee of equal opportunity, NOT equal results
| 262 |
sandbox Sun, Mar 28, 2010 6:51:12am |
re: #257 MandyManners
My favorite was at the State of the Union address when Obama recited some boilerplate language about reducing government expenditures. And there was audible laughter in the Chamber.
| 263 |
Decatur Deb Sun, Mar 28, 2010 6:51:14am |
re: #254 Cannadian Club Akbar
Someone making the D'oh you are talking about (1-3 hundred million) isn't a worker bee.
The specific hedge fund manager I'm thinking of didn't contribute as much to the national good as a worker bee in the forest service.
| 264 |
Decatur Deb Sun, Mar 28, 2010 6:52:41am |
| 265 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Mar 28, 2010 6:52:49am |
re: #263 Decatur Deb
The specific hedge fund manager I'm thinking of didn't contribute as much to the national good as a worker bee in the forest service.
And the forest service worker didn't help anyone's 401K.
| 266 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Mar 28, 2010 6:53:19am |
re: #263 Decatur Deb
The specific hedge fund manager I'm thinking of didn't contribute as much to the national good as a worker bee in the forest service.
And if it's the same "particular hedge fund manager" I'm thinking of he gets to spend 30 minutes a day in the great outdoors (albeit surrounded by barbed wire fences and armed guards), whereas the worker bee forest manager ,,,,,,,
SO ,, the system works!
| 267 |
Decatur Deb Sun, Mar 28, 2010 6:53:51am |
re: #265 Cannadian Club Akbar
And the forest service worker didn't help himself to anyone's 401K.
Improved that.
| 268 |
Decatur Deb Sun, Mar 28, 2010 6:55:33am |
re: #266 sattv4u2
I don't think it's the same guy, but your statement applies to a few.
| 269 |
RogueOne Sun, Mar 28, 2010 6:55:38am |
re: #259 Alouette
Mumps advisory:
That's when they inject you with your ID chip. They must have a new tracking system in place so they need to re-tag adults. I'm not falling for it this time.
| 270 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Mar 28, 2010 6:56:19am |
And on that note, the day guy just showed up
SO ,,, I get to go home!
YYYIIIPPPPEEEEE
| 271 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Mar 28, 2010 6:56:53am |
re: #269 RogueOne
That's when they inject you with your ID chip. They must have a new tracking system in place so they need to re-tag adults. I'm not falling for it this time.
Alex, is that you?
//
| 272 |
Walter L. Newton Sun, Mar 28, 2010 6:58:48am |
re: #258 Decatur Deb
Since I'm on the inside, I might not see the leftist denial. Balancing the income spread is pretty much what my favorite part of the left is for.
Well, you're not going to balance the "income spread" by taking it from me and giving it to "them." I'm a top-notch programmer of almost 30 years, who used to make 82 thousand a year.
But because of the reality of the economy, lack of job opportunities and my age (57, and yes, I've been told, by professional IT contracting firms, off the record, that my age is a big part of what is preventing me from getting a job)... I haven't been able to find full time programming work for the last 6 years.
So, you know what happens this coming Wed? I start a part time job as a cashier at a supermarket for 9.23 an hour.
But guess what. I'm not fucking complaining that someone else makes more than me, I don't want anyone handing me anything special, and I'll be happy to have something to do and some income to help me along.
And, I will continue to look for employment in my career. And I'm nothing special. I am only a high school graduate, no college, no one has ever handed me a special break, and I have never taken an extra penny from anyone or any agency. I've done all on my own.
And so can anyone in this country if they want to. And when I was making 82 thousand a year, no one had to make me give it away, I gave plenty away, on my own, to all sorts of worthy causes, and I never used any of that for tax breaks.
You'll distribute my "wealth" over my dead body.
| 273 |
MandyManners Sun, Mar 28, 2010 7:02:36am |
re: #262 sandbox
My favorite was at the State of the Union address when Obama recited some boilerplate language about reducing government expenditures. And there was audible laughter in the Chamber.
I missed that one.
| 274 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Mar 28, 2010 7:03:09am |
re: #268 Decatur Deb
I don't think it's the same guy, but your statement applies to a few.
Yes ,, and "a few' is the key. Because 'a few" hedge fund managers are theifs and scumbags does not mean that there are thousands of others doing a very good job managing peoples portfolios
I won't trash the entire forestery service because "a few' are reprobates either!
| 275 |
RogueOne Sun, Mar 28, 2010 7:06:03am |
Cato, maybe you may want to be excessively polite the next time you talk to one of Baltimore's Finest:
[Link: www.wbaltv.com...]
.....
The lawsuit alleges that the man was wrongfully arrested.In 2007, Fenyanga Muhammad and his cousin were talking on a west Baltimore street. Muhammad claims that's when two plainclothes officers approached and started choking him. He was chewing on a Popsicle stick at the time.
"When he grabbed my throat the Popsicle stick lodged down my throat and I was choking. So as I'm choking, another officer came from behind, knocked me down to the ground and started beating me. Before I knew it, they shot me four times," said Muhammad. The officers alleged that Muhammad was attempting to swallow drugs. No drugs were found in his system, according to authorities. But Muhammad was charged with assaulting a police officer and resisting arrest.
Muhammad was found not guilty Friday.
.......
Muhammad's lawsuit is seeking more then $10 million for physical and psychological damage over the past three years."I can't go throughout the day without thinking how I was damn near executed at the hands of people that took an oath to protect the community," said Muhammad.
Even more outrageously than shooting a guy 4 times for chewing on a popsicle stick is they went ahead with the trial. The prosecutor tried to put this guy in jail for having the nerve to get shot while minding his own business.
| 276 |
Decatur Deb Sun, Mar 28, 2010 7:08:13am |
re: #272 Walter L. Newton
"And so can anyone in this country if they want to. "
I know your argument. When I was 18, I walked across a bridge with my patrimony in a satchel. Where we disagree is probably in our concepts of 'Luck'
and 'Deserts'. I don't think your quote is accurate as a norm, and I'd like to see some of the randomness taken out of the consequences.
(Sorry for delays, had a spontaneous reboot.)
| 277 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Mar 28, 2010 7:08:28am |
re: #275 RogueOne
NOTE TO SELF
When finished with the icy part of the popsicle
THROW THE STICK AWAY IMMEDIATLY
| 279 |
RogueOne Sun, Mar 28, 2010 7:11:22am |
re: #275 RogueOne
Now I'm all worked up, that is outrageous. Instead of the taxpayers having to cough up $10 mil, which won't change a damn thing, that prosecutor should have to do the same amount of time as the guy he just tried to send up the river was facing.
| 280 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Mar 28, 2010 7:12:06am |
re: #278 jaunte
(Don't get shot for littering, though).
but,, But ,, BUT ,, It's BioDegradable ,, you know ,, GREEN !!!
| 281 |
jaunte Sun, Mar 28, 2010 7:12:51am |
re: #280 sattv4u2
Just sit over there on the Group W bench...
| 282 |
Jadespring Sun, Mar 28, 2010 7:12:58am |
Beautiful morning here today. The sun is just coming up above the trees. The birds are twittering like crazy, geese honking back in the marshes. Heard some ducks fly over and in the distance that call of a couple of loons. The dizzer bugs are dizzering in the grass and my rooster is crowing like crazy.
Just started my day off with a cup of coffee and bacon and eggs that I ran out to get while still in my PJs.
Mornings like this seem so much better in the spring. It's like everything has just come alive.
| 283 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Mar 28, 2010 7:14:00am |
re: #282 Jadespring
Beautiful morning here today. The sun is just coming up above the trees. The birds are twittering like crazy, geese honking back in the marshes. Heard some ducks fly over and in the distance that call of a couple of loons. The dizzer bugs are dizzering in the grass and my rooster is crowing like crazy.
Just started my day off with a cup of coffee and bacon and eggs that I ran out to get while still in my PJs.
Mornings like this seem so much better in the spring. It's like everything has just come alive.
I'm on my way ,, waders and shotgun packed!
/
| 284 |
Decatur Deb Sun, Mar 28, 2010 7:14:24am |
re: #282 Jadespring
Beautiful morning here today. The sun is just coming up above the trees. The birds are twittering like crazy, geese honking back in the marshes. Heard some ducks fly over and in the distance that call of a couple of loons. The dizzer bugs are dizzering in the grass and my rooster is crowing like crazy.
Just started my day off with a cup of coffee and bacon and eggs that I ran out to get while still in my PJs.
Mornings like this seem so much better in the spring. It's like everything has just come alive.
This is a political blog. Get your damn attitude back in line.
| 285 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Mar 28, 2010 7:15:13am |
re: #284 Decatur Deb
This is a political blog. Get your damn attitude back in line.
It IS !?!?
No wonder I haven't gotten a date here in all these years !!
damn!
| 286 |
RogueOne Sun, Mar 28, 2010 7:16:26am |
Barbara Bush hospitalized in Texas
[Link: abclocal.go.com...]
Former first lady Barbara Bush was hospitalized Saturday in Houston to undergo routine tests but doctors don't suspect anything serious, a family spokeswoman said.Bush, 84, was being treated at Methodist Hospital and should be released in a day or two, spokeswoman Jean Becker said late Saturday.
"She hasn't been feeling well for about a week, and the doctors thought she should come in and undergo a battery of tests," Becker said. "It's not serious. She just hasn't been feeling herself and they're just trying to figure out why."
| 287 |
Jadespring Sun, Mar 28, 2010 7:17:11am |
re: #283 sattv4u2
I'm on my way ,, waders and shotgun packed!
/
I'll have you arrested. Gun season doesn't happen for a a few months!! :D
It's funny though cause in during that season my mornings are filled with booming gunfire in the distance. It's one of the ways I keep track of the months around here.
| 288 |
Jadespring Sun, Mar 28, 2010 7:18:01am |
re: #284 Decatur Deb
This is a political blog. Get your damn attitude back in line.
Okay....so sorry...
Everyone SCREW OFF!!!!!
Is that better? :D
| 289 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Mar 28, 2010 7:18:23am |
re: #287 Jadespring
I'll have you arrested. Gun season doesn't happen for a a few months!! :D
It's funny though cause in during that season my mornings are filled with booming gunfire in the distance. It's one of the ways I keep track of the months around here.
I use a calendar.. Just sayin'.:)
| 290 |
MandyManners Sun, Mar 28, 2010 7:19:38am |
According to officials in Macedonia, Islamic fundamentalism threatens to destabilise the Balkans. Strict Wahhabi and Salafi factions funded by Saudi organisations are clashing with traditionally moderate local Muslim communities.
Fundamentalists have financed the construction of scores of mosques and community centres as well as handing some followers up to £225 a month. They are expected not only to grow beards but also to persuade their wives to wear the niqab, or face veil, a custom virtually unknown in the liberal Islamic tradition of the Balkans.
Government sources in traditionally secular Macedonia (official title the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia), said they were monitoring up to 50 Al-Qaeda volunteers recruited to fight in Afghanistan.
SNIP
Sulejman Rexhepi, leader of the Islamic community in Macedonia, said a number of mosques had been forcibly taken over by radical groups. Four in central Skopje are no longer under the control of the official Islamic authorities. New imams claim they have been “spontaneously” installed by the “people”.
“Their so-called Wahhabi teachings are completely alien to our traditions and to the essence of Islam, which is a tolerant and inclusive religion,” said Rexhepi.
SNIP
| 291 |
MandyManners Sun, Mar 28, 2010 7:20:03am |
| 292 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Mar 28, 2010 7:20:15am |
re: #289 Cannadian Club Akbar
I use a calendar.. Just sayin'.:)
How the hell can you go duck hunting with a calender?
I mean , sure ,, you could roll it up and swat it at them, but what are your chances ?!?!
| 293 |
Jadespring Sun, Mar 28, 2010 7:20:19am |
re: #289 Cannadian Club Akbar
I use a calendar.. Just sayin'.:)
I don't need no stinking calendar.
I bet you use watches and clocks too!
| 294 |
jaunte Sun, Mar 28, 2010 7:20:26am |
re: #288 Jadespring
"Dizzering" is a good word for the dizzer bug noises.
| 295 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Mar 28, 2010 7:21:29am |
re: #293 Jadespring
I don't need no stinking calendar.
I bet you use watches and clocks too!
I don't own a watch. I hate jewelry.
| 296 |
lawhawk Sun, Mar 28, 2010 7:22:39am |
Greets and saluts from the NYC metro area. The Taliban are up to their usual sick and twisted business, indoctrinating another generation to hate - including teaching the benefits of suicide bombings to kids (where have we heard this before? Oh that's right - with Hamas and Fatah and Iran, among others).
Since 2005, when the Haqqani Taliban introduced suicide bombings in the Afghan war, kids have become a messenger of choice.The suicide schools aren't new, but the processes of recruiting, training and operations are detailed in a grim new report by West Point's Combating Terrorism Center.
The tiny Taliban enrolled in Pakistani camps dotting the battle-scarred landscape go through a curriculum not unlike their American counterparts - but with a violent twist.
A typical day for the mostly Pashtun "fidai" - suicide bombers, who call other jihadis "common mujahids" - begins before dawn in camps numbering no more than 35 "students."
The black-turbaned recruits - typically 12 or 13 years old, with some as young as 7 - recite Koran verses until morning prayers.
They eat together, and then "driver's ed" takes on a sinister new meaning, according to writer S.H. Tajik, a United Nations law enforcement official, in the latest "CTC Sentinel."
Tajik drew his information from Pakistani government interrogations of nabbed jihadis.
"After breakfast, most trainees receive driver's education and practice vehicle maneuvers ... in preparation for vehicle-borne suicide attacks," he explained.
At one school, "six station wagons were available for this," Tajik wrote, citing detainees grilled by officials in Islamabad. The kids clean camp until lunch, take a nap, then take more "outdoor driving lessons after having tea with cookies."
"I want to grow up with military training, to participate in fighting and, Allah willing, to perform a martyrdom operation," said a pint-size wanna-be in a 2008 Islamic Jihad Union video found by the SITE Intelligence Group.
Many never grow up. They are sent to bomb U.S. and coalition targets in neighboring Afghanistan. Other kids are reclaimed by their families - though some run away and return to the Taliban schools.
The Taliban know that the American and other Western troops are loath to fire on kids - and are more than friendly to many of them that it is easier for a kid wearing a suicide belt to get in close to murder as many people as possible, including Afghans, Pakistanis, and our troops.
| 297 |
Cathypop Sun, Mar 28, 2010 7:22:53am |
| 298 |
MandyManners Sun, Mar 28, 2010 7:23:16am |
In an effort to convince skeptical Europeans to support the NATO-led war effort in Afghanistan, the CIA is calling for the recruitment of Afghan women to act as public relations ambassadors, according to a document leaked Friday.
"Afghan women could serve as ideal messengers in humanizing" the mission for European audiences, according to a CIA report posted on whistleblower Web site WikiLeaks.
The report, dated March 11, suggested that the views of Afghan women, with "their aspirations for the future and fears of a Taliban victory," would help garner backing for the Afghan war in Europe, particularly in countries like Germany and France where support is waning. The report cites the recent fall of the Dutch government over its troop commitment as proof of the "fragility" of European support.
SNIP
| 299 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Mar 28, 2010 7:24:12am |
re: #295 Cannadian Club Akbar
I don't own a watch. I hate jewelry.
What do you have against an entire religion!?!?!
oh ,, wait ,, you didn't type Jewery!!
Nevermind
//hat tip to Gilda Radner as Emily Litella
| 300 |
Jadespring Sun, Mar 28, 2010 7:24:24am |
| 301 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Mar 28, 2010 7:24:56am |
re: #300 Jadespring
It's a bug that goes 'dizzz...dizzz...dizzz' really loud.
Well ,, if you would answer it ,,,,,,,
| 302 |
reloadingisnotahobby Sun, Mar 28, 2010 7:25:00am |
re: #282 Jadespring
....But just how long can ya ignore the pile of laundry,dishes and cleaning?
It's a awesome day here too!
(Central Utah)
| 304 |
Jadespring Sun, Mar 28, 2010 7:26:12am |
re: #302 reloadingisnotahobby
...But just how long can ya ignore the pile of laundry,dishes and cleaning?
It's a awesome day here too!
(Central Utah)
About as long as it takes for me to nurse this half cup of coffee.
| 305 |
Walter L. Newton Sun, Mar 28, 2010 7:26:21am |
re: #276 Decatur Deb
"And so can anyone in this country if they want to. "
I know your argument. When I was 18, I walked across a bridge with my patrimony in a satchel. Where we disagree is probably in our concepts of 'Luck'
and 'Deserts'. I don't think your quote is accurate as a norm, and I'd like to see some of the randomness taken out of the consequences.(Sorry for delays, had a spontaneous reboot.)
Yep... toss out some pretty platitudes and that's the answer to everything. I'm not impressed.
(and no, I'm not being mean to you by the way, just defending my position :)
| 306 |
RogueOne Sun, Mar 28, 2010 7:27:53am |
Go Daddy Leaves China Over Censorship, Privacy Concerns
[Link: consumerist.com...]
GoDaddy.com, of the annoying Danica Patrick commercials, has announced that it will no longer sell .cn domain names. Why? It is not willing to comply with new rules from the Chinese government which requires domain holders to provide photo ID, says Wired.
| 307 |
Jadespring Sun, Mar 28, 2010 7:29:24am |
re: #301 sattv4u2
Well ,, if you would answer it ,,,
Seriously though I'm not sure what it is. Likely some sort of cricket, grasshopper or beetle.
I've tried to find out exactly what it is but they stop anytime you walk towards the noise.
| 308 |
Decatur Deb Sun, Mar 28, 2010 7:30:13am |
re: #305 Walter L. Newton
Yep... toss out some pretty platitudes and that's the answer to everything. I'm not impressed.
(and no, I'm not being mean to you by the way, just defending my position :)
In the normal course of things, I might have been found dead in a stolen car. The things that kept that from happening are mostly blind luck. Even in a country as free as ours, if you're born in the shit you're likely to die in the shit.
I work and vote to produce less shit.
| 309 |
reloadingisnotahobby Sun, Mar 28, 2010 7:30:33am |
About got my first "Piercing" via a Robin that nearly beaked my beak!
Dog jumps up for the bird and gave it a second try...
Back in the house for me!!
| 310 |
MandyManners Sun, Mar 28, 2010 7:30:54am |
Who says liberals can't spew vitiriol?
MALLOY (31:30): It took these filthy Republicans about 48 hours- 72 hours to come up with the 'oh, yeah, well, you know, we're getting bad phone calls too, yes we are.
And then this John Boner, this John Boner [sic] these guys created this. they created this atmosphere, they did it because Limbaugh and Beck told them to!
MALLOY (36:25): Well, keep it up boys, just keep it up, um except for one thing: you rat bastards are going to cause another Murrah federal building explosion, you are. And then - what is Beck - maybe at that point Beck will do the honorable thing and blow his brains out.
Maybe at that point, Limbaugh will do the honorable thing and just gobble up enough - enough Viagra that he becomes absolutely rigid and keels over dead.
Maybe then O'Reilly will just drink a vat of the poison he spews out on America every night and choke to death! Because that's what's gonna to happen, that's what they are pushing these right-wing, nut case, fringe, militia jerk-wads to doing!
SNIP
| 311 |
reloadingisnotahobby Sun, Mar 28, 2010 7:31:19am |
re: #307 Jadespring
...They're LOCUSTS!!!!
RUN!!!
/
| 312 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Mar 28, 2010 7:32:34am |
| 313 |
Decatur Deb Sun, Mar 28, 2010 7:33:42am |
re: #310 MandyManners
Who says liberals can't spew vitiriol?
SNIP
There's no doubt there are dimwits on both sides. We are only arguing over the distribution at the moment.
| 314 |
reloadingisnotahobby Sun, Mar 28, 2010 7:34:03am |
re: #304 Jadespring
About as long as it takes for me to nurse this half cup of coffee.
That's easy...just make more..works for me!
| 315 |
Jadespring Sun, Mar 28, 2010 7:34:53am |
re: #312 Cannadian Club Akbar
Locust? The end is near!!!
/
Maybe not locusts but I am preparing for a big bug year. Warmer then average winter usually means lots of bugs and lots of weird bugs.
At least when the bats come back they'll have lots to eat.
| 317 |
Jadespring Sun, Mar 28, 2010 7:36:37am |
re: #316 reloadingisnotahobby
Vampires..?!!
RUN!!
/
No worries. I grew a lot of garlic last year. I think I can handle them.
| 318 |
laZardo Sun, Mar 28, 2010 7:36:40am |
re: #308 Decatur Deb
In the normal course of things, I might have been found dead in a stolen car. The things that kept that from happening are mostly blind luck. Even in a country as free as ours, if you're born in the shit you're likely to die in the shit.
I work and vote to produce less shit.
Just because some of us never get that gated mansion doesn't mean most of us can't at least hold onto our dignity. I suppose that's what makes the so-called American Dream so different from others.
/personally, they say the grass is greener on the other side but to me, it's all yellowish-brown-dry.
| 319 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Mar 28, 2010 7:37:01am |
re: #315 Jadespring
Maybe not locusts but I am preparing for a big bug year. Warmer then average winter usually means lots of bugs and lots of weird bugs.
At least when the bats come back they'll have lots to eat.
Years ago I had hair down to my waist. I was outside a sportsbar having a smoke and a bat almost got caught in it.
| 320 |
Jadespring Sun, Mar 28, 2010 7:39:21am |
re: #319 Cannadian Club Akbar
Years ago I had hair down to my waist. I was outside a sportsbar having a smoke and a bat almost got caught in it.
LOL. That happened to me in my bedroom when I was chasing one.
I regularly have wrestling matches with bats. Usually involves a broom and t-shirt, lunging smack down technique.
| 321 |
Decatur Deb Sun, Mar 28, 2010 7:39:43am |
re: #318 laZardo
Just because some of us never get that gated mansion doesn't mean most of us can't at least hold onto our dignity. I suppose that's what makes the so-called American Dream so different from others.
/personally, they say the grass is greener on the other side but to me, it's all yellowish-brown-dry.
I have an irrational belief that is will get greener and greener as we go along. Even unicorns need to graze.
| 322 |
laZardo Sun, Mar 28, 2010 7:41:02am |
re: #316 reloadingisnotahobby
Vampires..?!!
RUN!!
/
Vampires these days just don't make as fun huntin' as they used to.
| 323 |
reloadingisnotahobby Sun, Mar 28, 2010 7:41:08am |
re: #320 Jadespring
If they came down the chimney they leave little black smudges on the wall!
...Voice of experience....
| 324 |
Jadespring Sun, Mar 28, 2010 7:42:20am |
re: #323 reloadingisnotahobby
If they came down the chimney they leave little black smudges on the wall!
...Voice of experience...
Bat art deco!
| 325 |
reloadingisnotahobby Sun, Mar 28, 2010 7:46:54am |
My ability to procrastinate is waning...
That, and not wanting wear clothes that
look like I slept in them...
Adios ......
Enjoy the day!!
| 326 |
Decatur Deb Sun, Mar 28, 2010 7:48:18am |
Time to put in tomatoes and clear the asparagus beds--Good Sunday, all.
| 327 |
MandyManners Sun, Mar 28, 2010 7:51:49am |
'I can confirm that a final agreement on the sale of Volvo to Geely was signed at 2.40pm,' Volvo Cars spokesman Per-Aake Froeberg told AFP ahead of a news conference due around 1430 GMT (10.30pm Singapore time).
The deal was signed at Volvo headquarters in Gothenburg by Ford's financial director Lewis Booth and Geely's president Li Shufu, Mr Froeberg said.
Mr Booth confirmed that the sale was for US$1.8 billion, less than a third of the US$6.4 billion Ford paid for Volvo Cars in 1999.
SNIP
| 328 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Mar 28, 2010 7:54:20am |
The History Channel is running a show on Hell. They covered Dante's Inferno (never read it, but I'm gonna) and now they are on "Paradise Lost" by Milton. The title of my term paper in HS English was "John Milton's Concept of the Universe and God in Book 7 of Paradise Lost." Did it in 4 hours the night before it was due. Got a C. Heh.
| 329 |
Jadespring Sun, Mar 28, 2010 7:55:26am |
re: #327 MandyManners
Why should that be a problem? This is just a typical example of how free market capitalism works.
| 330 |
MandyManners Sun, Mar 28, 2010 7:56:38am |
Whoever said all’s fair in love and war never met these Internet hucksters.
Con men impersonating deployed U.S. servicemen are hooking civilian women on dating Web sites and swindling them into spending money on fictitious laptops, international telephones, “leave papers” and plane tickets, said Chris Grey, a spokesman for Army Criminal Investigation Command.
The scheme appears to be a sophisticated twist on the ubiquitous lottery letter scam, but it uniquely exploits the victims’ patriotism and emotions while misrepresenting the Army and soldier-support programs, Grey said.
“These are not soldiers, they are thieves,” he said.
Officials say the phony American soldiers are often in reality African con men who seduce women online by creating profiles on dating and social media sites that appropriate the names, ranks and photos of actual soldiers, typically those serving in Iraq or Afghanistan.
SNIP
| 331 |
MandyManners Sun, Mar 28, 2010 7:56:57am |
re: #329 Jadespring
Why should that be a problem? This is just a typical example of how free market capitalism works.
Did I say it was a problem?
| 332 |
MandyManners Sun, Mar 28, 2010 8:00:51am |
And it has also been learnt that senior clergy who knew about clerical abusers and did nothing could now be facing prosecution after the appointment of the former heard of the Criminal Assets Bureau to investigate whether offences were committed by failure to report to gardai or to take steps to stop the rape and abuse of children.
SNIP
The Sunday Independent has now learnt that on top of the case exposed by this newspaper two weeks ago -- involving the cardinal interviewing two young boys in 1975 who were raped and abused by Smyth -- four other victims of the multiple rapist paedophile have also brought cases in which Cardinal Brady is named as defendant.
Cardinal Brady is being sued by one plaintiff in two cases; one brought against him in his capacity as head of the Catholic Church in Ireland; and the other in a personal capacity after the plaintiff learnt in 2006 about the cardinal's personal knowledge of Smyth's abuse when he interviewed the two boys in 1975 and his presence when they were sworn to secrecy.
These have been running since 1997.
The cases all involve claims that victims were abused both before and after the time that the cardinal, then secretary to the Bishop of Kilmore in Cavan and a canonical lawyer, interviewed two young boy victims of Smyth in 1975.
In the aftermath of the Sunday Independent revelations two weeks ago about the interviews and oaths, the cardinal said he "believed" the two victims he spoke to.
However, no action was taken against Brendan Smyth, who continued to rape and abuse children for at least another 15 years.
SNIP
| 333 |
William of Orange Sun, Mar 28, 2010 8:01:42am |
Some of you might not like Michael Moore, but this story on his website makes your stomach churn and sends your blood to a boiling point. THIS is what the Republicans were fighting. One day, ONE DAY, after this child was born the insurance company denied coverage for health care because they say the child's condition is pre-existing. Even the parent did not know haw bad the condition of this child was!
To top it all off, this happened in Texas! And what if the health condition of this child was known prior to birth? Were the parents given the opportunity to decide what to do? Bear this child or.... have an abortion? No, they would not have been given that choice. In any case, these folks are screwed. Ideologically by the bible-right, financially by the health industry!
Sure, the Health care reform is far from perfect but this case illustrates exactly what is wrong with the health care industry. The very fact that your health is part of an industry where the first and foremost goal is to make profit, is a reality which I would not want to be a part of. Luckily I'm not subjected to that kind of corrupt system. I'm Dutch and my Health Care is guaranteed.
I wonder if those bastards and bitches like Boehner and Bachmann could look these parents in the face without tears. Oh, they are sooo pro-life, but as soon as you're born, you're on your own!
Here's the video.
| 334 |
Jadespring Sun, Mar 28, 2010 8:02:26am |
re: #331 MandyManners
Did I say it was a problem?
Sorry assumption on my part because of the bolded part of the quote.
Guess it's just for info then.
| 335 |
MandyManners Sun, Mar 28, 2010 8:04:51am |
re: #333 William of Orange
And what if the health condition of this child was known prior to birth? Were the parents given the opportunity to decide what to do? Bear this child or... have an abortion? No, they would not have been given that choice.
Abortion is illegal in Texas?
| 336 |
MandyManners Sun, Mar 28, 2010 8:05:16am |
re: #334 Jadespring
Sorry assumption on my part because of the bolded part of the quote.
Guess it's just for info then.
The bolding was to highlight the loss.
| 337 |
Page 3 in the Binder of Women Sun, Mar 28, 2010 8:08:34am |
WASHINGTON — One evening in April 2008, three low-level staff members from the Obama presidential campaign — a baggage handler, a videographer and an advance man — gathered in the windowless basement of a Pennsylvania hotel for an improvised Passover Seder.
RelatedThe day had been long, the hour was late, and the young men had not been home in months. So they had cadged some matzo and Manischewitz wine, hoping to create some semblance of the holiday.
Suddenly they heard a familiar voice. “Hey, is this the Seder?” Barack Obama asked, entering the room.
So begins the story of the Obama Seder, now one of the newest, most intimate and least likely of White House traditions. When Passover begins at sunset on Monday evening, Mr. Obama and about 20 others will gather for a ritual that neither the rabbinic sages nor the founding fathers would recognize.
| 339 |
Spare O'Lake Sun, Mar 28, 2010 8:09:41am |
re: #329 Jadespring
Why should that be a problem? This is just a typical example of how free market capitalism works.
Is it really free market capitalism when a communist regime is the asset purchaser?
| 340 |
MandyManners Sun, Mar 28, 2010 8:11:24am |
re: #339 Spare O'Lake
Is it really free market capitalism when a communist regime is the asset purchaser?
Was Ford forced to sell to Geely?
| 341 |
laZardo Sun, Mar 28, 2010 8:11:38am |
re: #339 Spare O'Lake
Is it really free market capitalism when a communist regime is the asset purchaser?
Is it really communism when Geely is the largest independent auto company in China?
| 342 |
Bulldoglover100 Sun, Mar 28, 2010 8:12:48am |
What amazes me is the "fact" that these Republicans are "suppose" to be Christians and it clearly states in the Bible that we are to help the poor. Period. Not a thing there that contradicts this fact yet they stand on their platforms (Fox news, where the news lies) and sentence a baby such as that one to death...but they froth at the mouth over abortion. Do these teabaggers not understand this? I mean come on, it's pretty simple. They are not Christians in any sense of the word. I pray for them and feel pity for their souls. As a Christian Republicans I can no longer support my own party of 40 years.
| 343 |
swamprat Sun, Mar 28, 2010 8:14:16am |
re: #335 MandyManners
Not only that, but Moore is a reliable source and government programs are free from corruption, because no profit is involved.
| 344 |
jaunte Sun, Mar 28, 2010 8:14:19am |
re: #333 William of Orange
Some of you might not like Michael Moore, but this story on his website makes your stomach churn and sends your blood to a boiling point. THIS is what the Republicans were fighting. One day, ONE DAY, after this child was born the insurance company denied coverage for health care because they say the child's condition is pre-existing. Even the parent did not know haw bad the condition of this child was!
Many of the news outlets reporting on this story don't mention the fund set up to help these people defray the costs of the (successful) operation:
A "Houston Samuel Tracy" fund is set up at Bank of America to help the family cover medical costs.
[Link: cbs11tv.com...]
Maybe a few lizards could kick in some lunch money.
| 345 |
Jadespring Sun, Mar 28, 2010 8:16:00am |
re: #339 Spare O'Lake
Is it really free market capitalism when a communist regime is the asset purchaser?
In terms of willing seller and willing buyer yes it is.
China is not a strick communist regime either in terms of it's economy. They've been embracing more and more free enterprise and capitalism as the years go by. I believe this company for instance is one of the largest private companies in their auto industry.
| 346 |
What, me worry? Sun, Mar 28, 2010 8:16:43am |
re: #333 William of Orange
Not a fan of Michael Moore, but at least now pre-existing conditions will be covered.
Interesting, I didn't think about babies born with defects or disease. Indeed, that is a pre-existing condition. It didn't matter though, if you were part of the HAVEs (opposed to the HAVE-NOTs) like Sarah Palin who can afford to take care of a disabled child, with or without healthcare. Unfortunately, lots of parents went bankrupt trying to care for their sick children. Our new healthcare will fix that too.
Abortion is legal in the U.S. in all states, despite the fact that they hunt down abortion docs and kill them in Kansas or stand outside abortion clinics, making women run a gauntlet of name-calling and humiliation just to receive a legal procedure.
| 347 |
Walter L. Newton Sun, Mar 28, 2010 8:18:08am |
re: #342 Bulldoglover100
What amazes me is the "fact" that these Republicans are "suppose" to be Christians and it clearly states in the Bible that we are to help the poor. Period. Not a thing there that contradicts this fact yet they stand on their platforms (Fox news, where the news lies) and sentence a baby such as that one to death...but they froth at the mouth over abortion. Do these teabaggers not understand this? I mean come on, it's pretty simple. They are not Christians in any sense of the word. I pray for them and feel pity for their souls. As a Christian Republicans I can no longer support my own party of 40 years.
That's good, since we don't run this country according to a certain faith or theology. Welcome to reality.
| 348 |
William of Orange Sun, Mar 28, 2010 8:18:35am |
| 349 |
Spare O'Lake Sun, Mar 28, 2010 8:18:44am |
re: #341 laZardo
Is it really communism when Geely is the largest independent auto company in China?
Who owns Geely and how "independent" is it?
| 350 |
Jeff In Ohio Sun, Mar 28, 2010 8:19:04am |
re: #224 SixDegrees
The two are coupled. Student loans will now be disbursed directly by the government, rather than going through banks as an intermediary. And despite "cutting out the middle man," interest rates charged on student loans will be increased. Why? The excess will be diverted to pay for a portion of the health care reform legislation.
Bullshit. The 9billion going to health care is from the 60billion savings by cutting out the banks. The remainging savings go to Pell grants. And while interest rates are (and always have been) set by congress, the bill as passed does not increase the current interest rates.
[Link: www.campusprogress.org...]
| 351 |
Bulldoglover100 Sun, Mar 28, 2010 8:19:21am |
re: #346 marjoriemoon
Michael Moore exercises his his right to free speech....much like Fox News does but at least Michael Moor is honest about how he feels on the differing subjects which is more than can be said of Fox :news: They are in it for the money.
| 352 |
Walter L. Newton Sun, Mar 28, 2010 8:20:43am |
re: #351 Bulldoglover100
Michael Moore exercises his his right to free speech...much like Fox News does but at least Michael Moor is honest about how he feels on the differing subjects which is more than can be said of Fox :news: They are in it for the money.
And Moore doesn't make films to earn himself money?
| 353 |
Bulldoglover100 Sun, Mar 28, 2010 8:20:57am |
re: #350 Jeff In Ohio
Not true and if you have proof please post it or state it is only your opinion
| 354 |
Spare O'Lake Sun, Mar 28, 2010 8:21:20am |
re: #340 MandyManners
Was Ford forced to sell to Geely?
I don't know, what's the difference? I'm asking about Geely. Do you think Geely is a privately owned company, or is it a tool of the Communist Party?
| 355 |
Mad Al-Jaffee Sun, Mar 28, 2010 8:21:32am |
Hey everybody. Today is a great Sunday because I woke up a few hours ago and thought it was Monday. It is Sunday, right?
| 356 |
jaunte Sun, Mar 28, 2010 8:21:54am |
re: #352 Walter L. Newton
Maybe he'll contribute to the Tracy family medical bills, after using them to make a point...
| 357 |
Jadespring Sun, Mar 28, 2010 8:21:55am |
re: #349 Spare O'Lake
Who owns Geely and how "independent" is it?
Why does it matter?
Ford decided to sell. It found a buyer. That's how markets work.
| 358 |
Jeff In Ohio Sun, Mar 28, 2010 8:22:45am |
re: #353 Bulldoglover100
Not true and if you have proof please post it or state it is only your opinion
I did.
| 359 |
laZardo Sun, Mar 28, 2010 8:23:13am |
re: #349 Spare O'Lake
Who owns Geely and how "independent" is it?
Founder Li Shufu owns a majority stake in the company.
Because the transaction is international it would probably still need government approval though.
| 360 |
swamprat Sun, Mar 28, 2010 8:23:54am |
re: #353 Bulldoglover100
Click on the blue letters in Jeff's post. Then read the link he posted. It won't hurt.
| 361 |
laZardo Sun, Mar 28, 2010 8:25:11am |
re: #348 William of Orange
All women seeking an abortion in Texas must be provided with certain information at least 24 hours before they can have an abortion performed. We have attempted to make this requirement simple for you to fulfill by providing you with a telephone number where you can call and hear a recording of our physician providing you with the information that is necessary.
There's also parental consent for minors, but that doesn't outright say that "abortion is illegal" in Texas.
| 362 |
swamprat Sun, Mar 28, 2010 8:26:10am |
I trust nothing from Saint Moore The Smug.
War's over, healthcare passed.
| 363 |
Spare O'Lake Sun, Mar 28, 2010 8:26:53am |
re: #357 Jadespring
Why does it matter?
Ford decided to sell. It found a buyer. That's how markets work.
Maybe it doesn't matter to you, but it matters to me.
I was also against the sale of the US port facilities to a corporation owned by the government of Dubai.
| 364 |
What, me worry? Sun, Mar 28, 2010 8:27:01am |
re: #351 Bulldoglover100
Michael Moore exercises his his right to free speech...much like Fox News does but at least Michael Moor is honest about how he feels on the differing subjects which is more than can be said of Fox :news: They are in it for the money.
I think Mike is too (in it for the $).
The problem with him, to me, is that he often has good subject matters worth looking at, particularly healthcare and guns in the hands of children, but he isn't honest in the way he portrays it. For him to triumph Cuba for their healthcare is ridiculous, insane and basically a lie.
| 365 |
Macha Sun, Mar 28, 2010 8:27:21am |
re: #33 Cato the Elder
Automatons, following the literal book. The bureaucrats I won't even stoop to comment on. It is too early in my morning to start using profanity.
| 366 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Mar 28, 2010 8:27:24am |
re: #360 swamprat
Click on the blue letters in Jeff's post. Then read the link he posted. It won't hurt.
How can you know that? Maybe Bulldog has Carpal Tunnel and every click brings about pain!!
/
| 367 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Mar 28, 2010 8:28:18am |
re: #352 Walter L. Newton
And Moore doesn't make films to earn himself money?
he does it for the "children" and because he "cares"!
| 368 |
Jadespring Sun, Mar 28, 2010 8:28:25am |
re: #362 swamprat
I trust nothing from Saint Moore The Smug.
War's over, healthcare passed.
This story particular story was posted all over the place. I'm pretty sure the original news links were even posted here. Moore is actually a few days behind in his coverage of it.
| 369 |
jaunte Sun, Mar 28, 2010 8:28:26am |
re: #364 marjoriemoon
If this wasn't a useful story for him to tell, he would likely regard the Tracys as just another gun-fondling pair of bumpkins from Crowley, Texas.
| 370 |
Jadespring Sun, Mar 28, 2010 8:32:52am |
re: #363 Spare O'Lake
Maybe it doesn't matter to you, but it matters to me.
I was also against the sale of the US port facilities to a corporation owned by the government of Dubai.
Why exactly? Is it selling to businesses in countries of particular political bent or something more. Just trying to understand where your coming from.
| 371 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Mar 28, 2010 8:33:13am |
re: #369 jaunte
If this wasn't a useful story for him to tell, he would likely regard the Tracys as just another gun-fondling pair of bumpkins from Crowley, Texas.
If they are fast are they Speed Bumpkins?
| 372 |
jaunte Sun, Mar 28, 2010 8:34:42am |
re: #371 sattv4u2
J-j-j-just a litttle too much coffee, Officer...
| 373 |
swamprat Sun, Mar 28, 2010 8:35:14am |
Can hardly wait for the 5 year plan, uh, .. I mean healthcare, to get instated. Is glorious day comrades!
| 374 |
MandyManners Sun, Mar 28, 2010 8:37:41am |
re: #343 swamprat
Not only that, but Moore is a reliable source and government programs are free from corruption, because no profit is involved.
I'm glad the government lets me have some of my money.
| 375 |
What, me worry? Sun, Mar 28, 2010 8:38:23am |
re: #369 jaunte
If this wasn't a useful story for him to tell, he would likely regard the Tracys as just another gun-fondling pair of bumpkins from Crowley, Texas.
hehe A friend of mine went to see his mother in Cuba a few years back who's dying from cancer (she's since passed).
Yea, the healthcare is "free" but when you go to the hospital, you have to bring your own bedsheets and pillows, sometimes even sutures and medical supplies! After the fall of the Soviet Union, Cuba's healthcare went further into the toliet.
When my friend arrived at the hospital with his mother, the light switches and wiring had been ripped from the wall. You have to have someone there to guard your stuff or it won't be in your room when you return. Most healthcare is provided by local pharmacists and the black market. Free healthcare in Cuba is bullshit.
| 376 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Mar 28, 2010 8:38:38am |
re: #373 swamprat
Can hardly wait for the 5 year plan, uh, .. I mean healthcare, to get instated. Is glorious day comrades!
Holy Shite
he started this as soon as he was sworn in in Jan 2009
lots of stuff in the bill doesn't kick in till 2014
Lessee ,,,,, 2014, take away 2009 ,,,,, umm,, carry the 1,,,
HELL ,, thats {gulp} FIVE YEARS !!!
/
| 377 |
MandyManners Sun, Mar 28, 2010 8:39:04am |
re: #350 Jeff In Ohio
Bullshit. The 9billion going to health care is from the 60billion savings by cutting out the banks. The remainging savings go to Pell grants. And while interest rates are (and always have been) set by congress, the bill as passed does not increase the current interest rates.
[Link: www.campusprogress.org...]
Gee. From Center for American Progress, one of the leading Progressive groups around.
| 378 |
Aceofwhat? Sun, Mar 28, 2010 8:39:12am |
re: #363 Spare O'Lake
Maybe it doesn't matter to you, but it matters to me.
I was also against the sale of the US port facilities to a corporation owned by the government of Dubai.
Hmm. I was fine with that, actually. The employees would have remained your typical grumpy American longshoremen, and the very very last thing that the UAE wants is to be targeted by our fighter-bombers because they abetted the importation of something explosive.
Don't you think?
(oh - good morning!)
| 379 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Mar 28, 2010 8:39:26am |
re: #369 jaunte
If this wasn't a useful story for him to tell, he would likely regard the Tracys as just another gun-fondling pair of bumpkins from Crowley, Texas.
Why do you bring up guns in saying that?
| 380 |
MandyManners Sun, Mar 28, 2010 8:39:28am |
re: #351 Bulldoglover100
Michael Moore exercises his his right to free speech...much like Fox News does but at least Michael Moor is honest about how he feels on the differing subjects which is more than can be said of Fox :news: They are in it for the money.
Moore's poor?
| 381 |
MandyManners Sun, Mar 28, 2010 8:39:42am |
| 382 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Mar 28, 2010 8:39:52am |
re: #374 MandyManners
I'm glad the government lets me have some of my money.
I've decided to become a burden to society so they can decide that I ccan have some of your moeny also!!!
| 383 |
MandyManners Sun, Mar 28, 2010 8:39:57am |
re: #355 Mad Al-Jaffee
Hey everybody. Today is a great Sunday because I woke up a few hours ago and thought it was Monday. It is Sunday, right?
No.
| 384 |
Spare O'Lake Sun, Mar 28, 2010 8:40:04am |
re: #370 Jadespring
Why exactly? Is it selling to businesses in countries of particular political bent or something more. Just trying to understand where your coming from.
It's the sale of American capital (and the associated jobs), piece by piece, to foreign governments and their agents, at bargain basement prices. America is royally fucked, my friend.
| 386 |
swamprat Sun, Mar 28, 2010 8:40:20am |
re: #374 MandyManners
I'm glad the government lets me have some of my money.
Yes it is good they are so magnanimous.
| 387 |
laZardo Sun, Mar 28, 2010 8:40:35am |
re: #355 Mad Al-Jaffee
Hey everybody. Today is a great Sunday because I woke up a few hours ago and thought it was Monday. It is Sunday, right?
Not in
[looks at clock]
19 minutes, no.
| 388 |
Walter L. Newton Sun, Mar 28, 2010 8:40:42am |
re: #380 MandyManners
Moore's poor?
It appears that Bulldoglover100 doesn't want to talk to us anymore. He/she has had a number of comments addressed to him/her and no answer.
| 389 |
Aceofwhat? Sun, Mar 28, 2010 8:41:13am |
re: #385 darthstar
Happy Sunday, everyone.
How were the martinis on the porch last night? Good sunset?
| 390 |
MandyManners Sun, Mar 28, 2010 8:41:28am |
re: #362 swamprat
I trust nothing from Saint Moore The Smug.
War's over, healthcare passed.
We didn't have health care before BHO and his Merry Progs gave it to us?
The "war" is not over. This bit of socialism must first face judicial challenges.
| 391 |
Walter L. Newton Sun, Mar 28, 2010 8:42:05am |
re: #385 darthstar
Happy Sunday, everyone.
Hi comrade. Did you enjoy the Two Minutes Hate this morning? Doubleplusgood today, if I say so myself.
| 392 |
jaunte Sun, Mar 28, 2010 8:42:14am |
re: #379 Dark_Falcon
Why do you bring up guns in saying that?
Just speculating on the likely lifestyle of people who live in a small town in north Texas. I may be wrong about it.
| 393 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Mar 28, 2010 8:43:03am |
re: #388 Walter L. Newton
It appears that Bulldoglover100 doesn't want to talk to us anymore. He/she has had a number of comments addressed to him/her and no answer.
Typical. Someone shows up unready to deliver the goods in a tough room, and when they get spanked because of that they run away.
| 394 |
Aceofwhat? Sun, Mar 28, 2010 8:43:04am |
re: #388 Walter L. Newton
It appears that Bulldoglover100 doesn't want to talk to us anymore. He/she has had a number of comments addressed to him/her and no answer.
Good sense can be terribly hard to refute sometimes...
| 395 |
darthstar Sun, Mar 28, 2010 8:43:15am |
re: #389 Aceofwhat?
How were the martinis on the porch last night? Good sunset?
Yes...ended up going to my brother's house for dinner...more martinis, a bottle of Sonoma County Pinot, another bottle of French wine from his cellar, a rack of pork roasted quite nicely...wonderful evening...though I probably shouldn't have driven home.
| 396 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Mar 28, 2010 8:43:41am |
re: #390 MandyManners
We didn't have health care before BHO and his Merry Progs gave it to us?
The "war" is not over. This bit of socialism must first face judicial challenges.
Won't go anywhere, imho
better to highlight (one at a time) the most onerous of the provisions and try to have them repealed and/or altered more favorably one at a time
remember,, there WAS (and is) bi-partisan support in opposition to this bill. Work with that!
| 397 |
darthstar Sun, Mar 28, 2010 8:44:19am |
re: #391 Walter L. Newton
Hi comrade. Did you enjoy the Two Minutes Hate this morning? Doubleplusgood today, if I say so myself.
Sorry, I must have slept through it...but here's some inspirational music for you to get your day started.
| 398 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Mar 28, 2010 8:44:30am |
re: #392 jaunte
Just speculating on the likely lifestyle of people who live in a small town in north Texas. I may be wrong about it.
Careful with that. That's the same sort of thing the worst sorts on the right do when they imagine the "moral degeneracy" of the "progs". Don't fall into that sand trap.
| 399 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Mar 28, 2010 8:45:36am |
re: #391 Walter L. Newton
Hi comrade. Did you enjoy the Two Minutes Hate this morning? Doubleplusgood today, if I say so myself.
Was I here?
Was I part of it?
Did I enjoy it?
WAIT ,,was it aimed AT me !?!?!?
| 400 |
jaunte Sun, Mar 28, 2010 8:46:35am |
re: #398 Dark_Falcon
Ok, no speculation.
I will note that if every outlet selling ads with this story contributed a dollar to the Tracys their bill would probably be paid.
Results 1 - 10 of about 333,000
for baby born without insurance coverage houston tracy contributions
[Link: www.google.com...]
| 401 |
Aceofwhat? Sun, Mar 28, 2010 8:47:09am |
re: #398 Dark_Falcon
Careful with that. That's the same sort of thing the worst sorts on the right do when they imagine the "moral degeneracy" of the "progs". Don't fall into that sand trap.
you're spoiling the fun...i was about to ask why availing oneself of the newly elocuted expanse of the 2nd amendment was noteworthy...
| 402 |
What, me worry? Sun, Mar 28, 2010 8:47:37am |
re: #390 MandyManners
We didn't have health care before BHO and his Merry Progs gave it to us?
The "war" is not over. This bit of socialism must first face judicial challenges.
So you're saying there was nothing wrong with our U.S. healthcare prior to Obama's reform?
| 403 |
swamprat Sun, Mar 28, 2010 8:47:57am |
re: #390 MandyManners
We didn't have health care before BHO and his Merry Progs gave it to us?
The "war" is not over. This bit of socialism must first face judicial challenges.
Wrong way to go. Let it come and be a fiasco.Nobody wants to be the evil dragon that takes away Americas' Brave New Medicine. After the crash, the republicans can fix it. With the dems looking over their should to keep things honest.
| 404 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Mar 28, 2010 8:48:24am |
re: #402 marjoriemoon
So you're saying there was nothing wrong with our U.S. healthcare prior to Obama's reform?
I didn't see her say that at all!
| 405 |
What, me worry? Sun, Mar 28, 2010 8:50:01am |
re: #404 sattv4u2
I didn't see her say that at all!
No? We had healthcare prior to the "Merry Progs" so what me worry.
| 406 |
Aceofwhat? Sun, Mar 28, 2010 8:50:40am |
re: #402 marjoriemoon
So you're saying there was nothing wrong with our U.S. healthcare prior to Obama's reform?
There was plenty wrong. Expanded HSA's, the ability to purchase insurance across state lines, tax deductibility for individuals and not just corporations, a heavier focus on catastrophic coverage rather than comprehensive...these are legitimate solutions that make more economic sense to me.
| 407 |
darthstar Sun, Mar 28, 2010 8:51:03am |
re: #400 jaunte
Ok, no speculation.
I will note that if every outlet selling ads with this story contributed a dollar to the Tracys their bill would probably be paid.
Results 1 - 10 of about 333,000
for baby born without insurance coverage houston tracy contributions
[Link: www.google.com...]
Without speculating too much, one does have to admit this story is a suckful one. Was an insurance adjuster there in the delivery room checking off possible pre-existing conditions before the parents could add the kid to their insurance?
By the way, you don't hear the insurance companies complaining about the Health Care law anymore.
| 408 |
Aceofwhat? Sun, Mar 28, 2010 8:51:54am |
re: #407 darthstar
By the way, you don't hear the insurance companies complaining about the Health Care law anymore.
true dat
| 409 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Mar 28, 2010 8:52:32am |
re: #405 marjoriemoon
No? We had healthcare prior to the "Merry Progs" so what me worry.
Lets put it in question form then
Prior to last weeks bill signing, did this country have an active health care system
Mind you, I never said nor intimated it was nirvana. I merely (as Mandy sarcastically remarked) stated that there was a system in plcae
| 410 |
albusteve Sun, Mar 28, 2010 8:53:38am |
this issue has to come up again....BO and Holder have painted themselves into a corner regarding the KDM trials...one obvious blunder, BO should never have promised to close Gitmo without an alternative...making promises you can't keep will come back to haunt you sometimes, especially one so important wit the voters....rookie mistake
[Link: www.politico.com...]
| 411 |
laZardo Sun, Mar 28, 2010 8:54:02am |
All I'm gonna say about healthcare is that - regardless of whether there's a profit motive - healthcare always costs something.
| 412 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Mar 28, 2010 8:54:43am |
re: #410 albusteve
this issue has to come up again...BO and Holder have painted themselves into a corner regarding the KDM trials...one obvious blunder, BO should never have promised to close Gitmo without an alternative...making promises you can't keep will come back to haunt you sometimes, especially one so important wit the voters...rookie mistake
[Link: www.politico.com...]
Hold on. He promised to close it within a year after he became President
It hasn't been a ,,,, ummm,,,, oh ,, wait ,, shit!
| 413 |
jaunte Sun, Mar 28, 2010 8:54:45am |
re: #407 darthstar
It does suck. The Tracy adults do bear some responsibility for going uninsured through a pregnancy, for not imagining the possibility, for not reading the policy, and expecting someone else would provide. Now they're stuck with the bill for services.
I think it was a bad move on the part of the insurance company, but they won't have to pay any price for bad pr now.
| 414 |
What, me worry? Sun, Mar 28, 2010 8:55:39am |
re: #409 sattv4u2
Lets put it in question form then
Prior to last weeks bill signing, did this country have an active health care system
Mind you, I never said nor intimated it was nirvana. I merely (as Mandy sarcastically remarked) stated that there was a system in plcae
Of course there was a system in place. And it stunk. There are parts that still stink, but it's moving to something a lot less smelly (pardon the olfactory references lol).
| 415 |
MandyManners Sun, Mar 28, 2010 8:55:49am |
re: #390 MandyManners
We didn't have health care before BHO and his Merry Progs gave it to us?
The "war" is not over. This bit of socialism must first face judicial challenges.
BHO and his Merry Band of Progs.
(How could I have forgotten the "Band"?)
| 416 |
pingjockey Sun, Mar 28, 2010 8:56:31am |
Mornin' all. None of this HCR matters. In 10 years a whole country is going to be living on a heating grate cause we're broke!
| 417 |
MandyManners Sun, Mar 28, 2010 8:56:49am |
re: #415 MandyManners
BHO and his Merry Band of Progs.
(How could I have forgotten the "Band"?)
Eeks.
Band of Merry Progs.
I'm waiting for my brunch casserole to get done and am a bit scattered.
| 419 |
darthstar Sun, Mar 28, 2010 8:57:10am |
re: #410 albusteve
this issue has to come up again...BO and Holder have painted themselves into a corner regarding the KDM trials...one obvious blunder, BO should never have promised to close Gitmo without an alternative...making promises you can't keep will come back to haunt you sometimes, especially one so important wit the voters...rookie mistake
[Link: www.politico.com...]
There's a brand-new empty federal prison in Indiana or Iowa or one of those other fly-over states that's not being used. They could move the Gitmo detainees to that and each would have a secure cell of his own, and it would create local jobs. And no, there wouldn't be a wave of terrorists moving in to be close to them.
| 420 |
Aceofwhat? Sun, Mar 28, 2010 8:57:27am |
re: #417 MandyManners
Eeks.
Band of Merry Progs.
I'm waiting for my brunch casserole to get done and am a bit scattered.
what's in the casserole?
| 421 |
Walter L. Newton Sun, Mar 28, 2010 8:57:28am |
re: #414 marjoriemoon
Of course there was a system in place. And it stunk. There are parts that still stink, but it's moving to something a lot less smelly (pardon the olfactory references lol).
And this is the direction it is moving...
| 422 |
MandyManners Sun, Mar 28, 2010 8:57:46am |
re: #382 sattv4u2
I've decided to become a burden to society so they can decide that I ccan have some of your moeny also!!!
Call me on my Free Money Hotline: BR-549.
| 423 |
swamprat Sun, Mar 28, 2010 8:58:01am |
re: #410 albusteve
this issue has to come up again...BO and Holder have painted themselves into a corner regarding the KDM trials...one obvious blunder, BO should never have promised to close Gitmo without an alternative...making promises you can't keep will come back to haunt you sometimes, especially one so important wit the voters...rookie mistake
[Link: www.politico.com...]
End the war
Universal healthcare
Heal the earth
Clean Coal Technology
Close Gitmo
And that's off the top of my head. If he does half of what he promised It will be amazing.
And yes he did say he would heal the earth.
| 424 |
pingjockey Sun, Mar 28, 2010 8:58:33am |
re: #421 Walter L. Newton
Yep, if you make over 40k a year, your taxes are going up.
| 425 |
keloyd Sun, Mar 28, 2010 8:58:38am |
| 426 |
MandyManners Sun, Mar 28, 2010 8:58:47am |
re: #386 swamprat
Yes it is good they are so magnanimous.
I think I'll start taking photographs of my cash so I can remember what it looks like.
| 427 |
Aceofwhat? Sun, Mar 28, 2010 8:58:50am |
re: #421 Walter L. Newton
And this is the direction it is moving...
things that aren't the government's job:
1. income redistribution
2. your text here
3. your text here
| 428 |
MandyManners Sun, Mar 28, 2010 8:59:23am |
re: #388 Walter L. Newton
It appears that Bulldoglover100 doesn't want to talk to us anymore. He/she has had a number of comments addressed to him/her and no answer.
Mayybe s/he is busy with a brunch casserole, too.
| 429 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Mar 28, 2010 8:59:40am |
re: #414 marjoriemoon
Of course there was a system in place. And it stunk. There are parts that still stink, but it's moving to something a lot less smelly (pardon the olfactory references lol).
But thats not what you stated in 402
You asked Mandy
So you're saying there was nothing wrong with our U.S. healthcare prior to Obama's reform?
and I stated she never said there was "nothing wrong' with it. YOU added that to her statement (sarcastically saying that we didn't have a system in place prior to last week)
| 430 |
pingjockey Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:00:20am |
re: #419 darthstar
Put them on the US soil and they get Miranda/Bill of Rights protections, fuck that.
| 431 |
What, me worry? Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:00:23am |
re: #411 laZardo
All I'm gonna say about healthcare is that - regardless of whether there's a profit motive - healthcare always costs something.
My mother fell into the donut hole last year which meant to continue with her life-saving medication, she would have had to pay $3000. The woman at Medicare told her she was of the more "lucky" ones. Some of the meds for others cost $12,000 a month! Could you afford that? I can't and I have two incomes in my household.
Luckily mom hooked up with... I think it was the Masons or the Lions? I don't recall who now, who had a drug program who sponsored her. And the reason that she was so lucky was because her only income is social security.
| 432 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:00:55am |
re: #416 pingjockey
Mornin' all. None of this HCR matters. In 10 years a whole country is going to be living on a heating grate cause we're broke!
Problem is, it will be a gov't heating grate and it will only give off heat in August!
| 433 |
MandyManners Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:00:59am |
re: #396 sattv4u2
Won't go anywhere, imho
better to highlight (one at a time) the most onerous of the provisions and try to have them repealed and/or altered more favorably one at a time
remember,, there WAS (and is) bi-partisan support in opposition to this bill. Work with that!
Why won't the judicial challenges go anywhere? Because BHO and his Band of Merry Progs said so this week?
| 434 |
darthstar Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:02:31am |
re: #430 pingjockey
Put them on the US soil and they get Miranda/Bill of Rights protections, fuck that.
They'll still be in jail. They'll still not be a threat to society. And those who are innocent will still be sent back to their country of origin once people realize that they're not all Osama bin Ladens.
| 435 |
MandyManners Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:02:34am |
re: #402 marjoriemoon
So you're saying there was nothing wrong with our U.S. healthcare prior to Obama's reform?
There was nothing wrong with health care. The abilitity of certaing people to get it was problematic.
| 436 |
Aceofwhat? Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:02:42am |
re: #419 darthstar
There's a brand-new empty federal prison in Indiana or Iowa or one of those other fly-over states that's not being used. They could move the Gitmo detainees to that and each would have a secure cell of his own, and it would create local jobs. And no, there wouldn't be a wave of terrorists moving in to be close to them.
serious question for you and others who may lean more left than I:
is it a reasonable assumption that the whole Gitmo debacle will lead the Armed Forces to simply hold future detainees farther away from US soil and in greater secrecy in the future, resulting in less rather than more transparency?
| 437 |
albusteve Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:02:57am |
re: #419 darthstar
There's a brand-new empty federal prison in Indiana or Iowa or one of those other fly-over states that's not being used. They could move the Gitmo detainees to that and each would have a secure cell of his own, and it would create local jobs. And no, there wouldn't be a wave of terrorists moving in to be close to them.
that doesn't address the political issues involved...the entire mess stems from the ridiculous notion that Gitmo tarnishes our image and that somehow that's a big problem for the US...it's only a problem because people made it up out of whole cloth...creating another Gitmo doesn't solve that 'problem'...BO brought the whole thing on himself
| 438 |
What, me worry? Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:03:33am |
re: #421 Walter L. Newton
And this is the direction it is moving...
How come during every other Democrat administration we never heard "redistribution of wealth"? What a funny way to label taxes which we all pay.
Dems tax the wealthy over lower and middle class. Maybe we should continue to give tax breaks to top 5% earners and lean on those who can least afford it?
| 439 |
swamprat Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:03:37am |
re: #423 swamprat
Negotiate with terrorists
Use his Super Negotiating Powers on Iran
| 440 |
MandyManners Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:03:37am |
re: #403 swamprat
Wrong way to go. Let it come and be a fiasco.Nobody wants to be the evil dragon that takes away Americas' Brave New Medicine. After the crash, the republicans can fix it. With the dems looking over their should to keep things honest.
It won't stop unless it is stopped. The government will always find ways to prop it up. Ready for the VAT?
| 441 |
pingjockey Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:04:02am |
re: #434 darthstar
If they get our protections, the defense counsel can get means and methods on intel. Which will make it's way back to the active terrorists.
| 442 |
MandyManners Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:04:08am |
re: #405 marjoriemoon
No? We had healthcare prior to the "Merry Progs" so what me worry.
Oh, so now I know what was bugging you. My calling a spade a spade.
| 443 |
Jadespring Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:04:30am |
re: #384 Spare O'Lake
It's the sale of American capital (and the associated jobs), piece by piece, to foreign governments and their agents, at bargain basement prices. America is royally fucked, my friend.
So what would you suggest to do about it?
| 444 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:04:30am |
re: #436 Aceofwhat?
serious question for you and others who may lean more left than I:
is it a reasonable assumption that the whole Gitmo debacle will lead the Armed Forces to simply hold future detainees farther away from US soil and in greater secrecy in the future, resulting in less rather than more transparency?
ice linked to something awhile back showing that the "new" Gitmo is in Afghanastan,.,, Bagrahm, iirc
| 445 |
darthstar Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:04:46am |
re: #436 Aceofwhat?
serious question for you and others who may lean more left than I:
is it a reasonable assumption that the whole Gitmo debacle will lead the Armed Forces to simply hold future detainees farther away from US soil and in greater secrecy in the future, resulting in less rather than more transparency?
We already are using a prison in Afghanistan for most, if not all, new detainees.
| 446 |
What, me worry? Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:04:48am |
re: #435 MandyManners
There was nothing wrong with health care. The abilitity of certaing people to get it was problematic.
Not just get it, but pay for it. There was plenty wrong with healthcare.
| 447 |
Walter L. Newton Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:05:05am |
re: #438 marjoriemoon
How come during every other Democrat administration we never heard "redistribution of wealth"? What a funny way to label taxes which we all pay.
Dems tax the wealthy over lower and middle class. Maybe we should continue to give tax breaks to top 5% earners and lean on those who can least afford it?
How come we are hearing it now?
| 448 |
darthstar Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:05:50am |
re: #437 albusteve
Yep...President Obama should never have created Gitmo.
/
| 449 |
Walter L. Newton Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:05:54am |
re: #438 marjoriemoon
How come during every other Democrat administration we never heard "redistribution of wealth"? What a funny way to label taxes which we all pay.
Dems tax the wealthy over lower and middle class. Maybe we should continue to give tax breaks to top 5% earners and lean on those who can least afford it?
Go ahead, you give me the "spin" on what Baucus was really saying?
| 450 |
albusteve Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:06:08am |
re: #434 darthstar
They'll still be in jail. They'll still not be a threat to society. And those who are innocent will still be sent back to their country of origin once people realize that they're not all Osama bin Ladens.
Gitmo and the tribunals provide for exactly that
| 451 |
Aceofwhat? Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:06:20am |
re: #431 marjoriemoon
My mother fell into the donut hole last year which meant to continue with her life-saving medication, she would have had to pay $3000. The woman at Medicare told her she was of the more "lucky" ones. Some of the meds for others cost $12,000 a month! Could you afford that? I can't and I have two incomes in my household.
Luckily mom hooked up with... I think it was the Masons or the Lions? I don't recall who now, who had a drug program who sponsored her. And the reason that she was so lucky was because her only income is social security.
It gets to be such a hard and gut-wrenching topic when we get down to the nitty-gritty of just how much we all ought to pay for each other's healthcare, especially when expenses grow like this. I'm probably not sensitive enough to do it right, so let me just say that i'm so happy that your mom found success! How is she?
| 452 |
MandyManners Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:06:56am |
re: #421 Walter L. Newton
And this is the direction it is moving...
Aw, what does Business Week know? It's geared toward those evil Capitalists.
| 453 |
Aceofwhat? Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:07:21am |
re: #433 MandyManners
Why won't the judicial challenges go anywhere? Because BHO and his Band of Merry Progs said so this week?
i think that too much precedent has been laid with regard to the fed's ability to require us to purchase certain things...
| 454 |
What, me worry? Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:07:23am |
re: #447 Walter L. Newton
How come we are hearing it now?
You tell me. The same reason we hear that Dems are nothing but socialists (i.e. communists). All that liberal rhetoric has been increasingly ramped up. Nothing like that happened during the Clinton years.
| 455 |
Walter L. Newton Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:07:44am |
re: #448 darthstar
Yep...President Obama should never have created Gitmo.
/
Interesting how acceptable Tu Quoque suddenly became this morning?
| 456 |
pingjockey Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:07:49am |
re: #438 marjoriemoon
We all don't pay income tax which funds the Fed gov't. The top 5% of earners pay over(IIRC)80% of the tab for the gubmin't.
Good for the Pres. He's gone to visit the troops in Afghanistan.
| 457 |
MandyManners Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:07:50am |
| 458 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:07:50am |
re: #446 marjoriemoon
Not just get it, but pay for it. There was plenty wrong with healthcare.
And plenty right with it
IF 40 million are without ins, that means 300 million HAVE it
IF 300 million have it, and we don't see people dying in hospital parking lots waiting to be seen, SOMETHING is going right
We should have fixed the things that are WRONG with the current system instead of this
When I get a flat tire and the wiper blades are worn out, I don't buy a new car,, ESPECIALLY when I'm BROKE
| 459 |
Dark_Falcon Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:08:11am |
re: #439 swamprat
Negotiate with terrorists
Use his Super Negotiating Powers on Iran
Lot of good that's done.
Gotta run. BBL
| 460 |
Aceofwhat? Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:08:19am |
re: #438 marjoriemoon
How come during every other Democrat administration we never heard "redistribution of wealth"? What a funny way to label taxes which we all pay.
Dems tax the wealthy over lower and middle class. Maybe we should continue to give tax breaks to top 5% earners and lean on those who can least afford it?
do you know what share of the taxes are already paid by the top 5%?
| 461 |
Walter L. Newton Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:09:02am |
re: #454 marjoriemoon
You tell me. The same reason we hear that Dems are nothing but socialists (i.e. communists). All that liberal rhetoric has been increasingly ramped up. Nothing like that happened during the Clinton years.
Baucus said it best... what did he mean?
| 462 |
darthstar Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:09:06am |
Okay, time to get my socialist commie ass out of bed and see the world...maybe hug a few trees...
bye
| 463 |
Aceofwhat? Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:09:32am |
re: #445 darthstar
We already are using a prison in Afghanistan for most, if not all, new detainees.
And so i'm wondering, with no trace of sarcasm or hidden agenda, if that is (a) related to the Gitmo flak and (b) a good thing or a bad thing.
| 464 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:09:48am |
re: #460 Aceofwhat?
do you know what share of the taxes are already paid by the top 5%?
I do I do ,,, pick ME pick ME!!
| 465 |
MandyManners Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:09:57am |
re: #424 pingjockey
Yep, if you make over 40k a year, your taxes are going up.
But, but, but...BHO promised only those evil people making $250,000.00/yr. would have higher taxes.
Oh, wait. Both he and Biden kept on lowering that rate before the election but, no one paid attention. IIRC, they lowered it to $70,000.00.
| 466 |
albusteve Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:10:07am |
re: #448 darthstar
Yep...President Obama should never have created Gitmo.
/
you prove the point that it should never have been a partisan problem...it's a military problem, but leftbangers used it against the Bush admin for political currency...now look what they have wrought
| 467 |
What, me worry? Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:10:24am |
re: #449 Walter L. Newton
Go ahead, you give me the "spin" on what Baucus was really saying?
He was saying, very poorly I might add considering the current climate, exactly what I said. It's unfair to put higher tax burdens on those who can least afford it.
| 469 |
Aceofwhat? Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:10:59am |
re: #452 MandyManners
Aw, what does Business Week know? It's geared toward those evil Capitalists.
Actually, it's fairly left-leaning for its niche. Forbes is more 'geared' towards the capitalist pigs.
| 470 |
Aceofwhat? Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:11:35am |
| 471 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:11:49am |
re: #467 marjoriemoon
He was saying, very poorly I might add considering the current climate, exactly what I said. It's unfair to put higher tax burdens on those who can least afford it.
then perhaps they should reign in the spending, because, after all, thats what taxes are for,,, gov't spending!
| 472 |
What, me worry? Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:11:57am |
re: #451 Aceofwhat?
It gets to be such a hard and gut-wrenching topic when we get down to the nitty-gritty of just how much we all ought to pay for each other's healthcare, especially when expenses grow like this. I'm probably not sensitive enough to do it right, so let me just say that i'm so happy that your mom found success! How is she?
Oh mom's great, but a lot of her friends were not so lucky, including those who simply could not afford certain meds and had to stop taking them.
| 473 |
Aceofwhat? Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:12:24am |
re: #454 marjoriemoon
You tell me. The same reason we hear that Dems are nothing but socialists (i.e. communists). All that liberal rhetoric has been increasingly ramped up. Nothing like that happened during the Clinton years.
income redistribution has been in the economic lexicon for a long, long time. do you mean that you're hearing it in different contexts than previously?
| 474 |
Jadespring Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:12:39am |
re: #449 Walter L. Newton
Go ahead, you give me the "spin" on what Baucus was really saying?
Is that the only thing he said or was there more before and more after?
Just asking because even if in the quote, he said what is being suggested he said, he didn't say it very well. At least not in the way that I've heard other people saying what is being suggested he's saying. I'm not even sure he knows what he's saying which is why I find it hard to comment without knowing if there was more then just this pull quote.
Not attempting to spin anything here I just would want his whole comment (if there is more) to understand what the heck he was talking about.
| 475 |
darthstar Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:13:04am |
re: #463 Aceofwhat?
And so i'm wondering, with no trace of sarcasm or hidden agenda, if that is (a) related to the Gitmo flak and (b) a good thing or a bad thing.
a) possibly, if not probably
b) probably a good thing overall...America as a whole has proven itself, with the help of the media, to be incapable of understanding that treating prisoners like human beings isn't going to destroy the country and turn Christians into Muslims.
And with that, I'm out of here.
| 476 |
MandyManners Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:13:18am |
| 478 |
MandyManners Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:14:09am |
re: #427 Aceofwhat?
things that aren't the government's job:
1. income redistribution
2. your text here
3. your text here
BHO said it was to Joe Wurzelbacher.
| 479 |
MandyManners Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:14:47am |
| 480 |
Aceofwhat? Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:14:52am |
re: #465 MandyManners
But, but, but...BHO promised only those evil people making $250,000.00/yr. would have higher taxes.
Oh, wait. Both he and Biden kept on lowering that rate before the election but, no one paid attention. IIRC, they lowered it to $70,000.00.
tell someone who lives in NYC that $70k/yr is an upper middle-class income...although i have little sympathy for their tax structure. No state income taxes in Florida! sorry, lawhawk!
| 481 |
MandyManners Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:15:08am |
re: #453 Aceofwhat?
i think that too much precedent has been laid with regard to the fed's ability to require us to purchase certain things...
Nme one.
| 482 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:15:09am |
re: #475 darthstar
b) probably a good thing overall
then whats the difference if the prison is on an island off the coast or Fla or a country half way across the world?
((one, I may add that prolly poses more of a target to the prison itself than the island one!!))
| 483 |
Aceofwhat? Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:15:20am |
re: #475 darthstar
a) possibly, if not probably
b) probably a good thing overall...America as a whole has proven itself, with the help of the media, to be incapable of understanding that treating prisoners like human beings isn't going to destroy the country and turn Christians into Muslims.And with that, I'm out of here.
be well. it's always a pleasure-
| 484 |
albusteve Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:15:44am |
re: #478 MandyManners
BHO said it was to Joe Wurzelbacher.
and cash for clunkers proved his point...how people deny that or twist it into something else is beyond me
| 485 |
What, me worry? Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:15:46am |
re: #458 sattv4u2
And plenty right with it
IF 40 million are without ins, that means 300 million HAVE it
IF 300 million have it, and we don't see people dying in hospital parking lots waiting to be seen, SOMETHING is going rightWe should have fixed the things that are WRONG with the current system instead of this
When I get a flat tire and the wiper blades are worn out, I don't buy a new car,, ESPECIALLY when I'm BROKE
You're really comparing a car to health insurance. Really? You won't die without a car, btw.
What I'm disappointed in mostly is that the costs of meds have not been addressed. Or maybe they have in those 2000 pages, but I don't know. I certainly hope so. It's unconscionable for any medication to cost $3000 a month. Even $1000. To me, that's one of the largest issues.
| 486 |
keloyd Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:15:55am |
I'm going out on a limb - what's wrong with tu quoque when tu really does quoque? Putting aside Gitmo for the moment, political speech is infested with hyperbolic metaphors and foul language. Recent demonstrations had various epithets. In the 90's demonstrations against the Rodney King verdict included probably a few epithets while Korean families had their business looted and burned to the ground and firemen were shot at while putting the flames out. The right's record in the recent past is a bit worse, but that's all part of the game. Gandhi and King could run a good demonstration and keep things disciplined and on-message. Anyone since then? In the US? I've only found a few good examples, and they're local issues, not national.
| 487 |
MandyManners Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:15:58am |
| 488 |
MandyManners Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:16:24am |
re: #469 Aceofwhat?
Actually, it's fairly left-leaning for its niche. Forbes is more 'geared' towards the capitalist pigs.
Oink.
| 489 |
Aceofwhat? Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:17:42am |
re: #481 MandyManners
Nme one.
auto insurance.
the commerce clause has been beaten down for centuries. i have a really hard time seeing an imminent reversal of that trend.
| 490 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:18:03am |
re: #485 marjoriemoon
You're really comparing a car to health insurance. Really? You won't die without a car, btw.
Way to miss the point
I'll do without the car reference.
There are problems in the system we had up to last week. Those problems should have and could have been isolated then addressed one at a time
(I beleive Ace enumerated several of them upthread)
| 491 |
Walter L. Newton Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:18:04am |
re: #467 marjoriemoon
He was saying, very poorly I might add
re: #474 Jadespring
he didn't say it very well
Love it... did you two get your talking points at the same time this morning. Seems like there has been a few senators not "saying things too well" this week...
Dingell said " it takes a long time to do the necessary administrative steps that have to be taken to put the legislation together to control the people."
I guess he didn't say that too well either?
| 492 |
What, me worry? Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:18:08am |
re: #471 sattv4u2
then perhaps they should reign in the spending, because, after all, thats what taxes are for,,, gov't spending!
Hello?? Bush put the burden on the lower and middle classes for his big ole fat government while giving breaks to the wealthy, not Obama.
| 493 |
albusteve Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:18:29am |
re: #489 Aceofwhat?
auto insurance.
the commerce clause has been beaten down for centuries. i have a really hard time seeing an imminent reversal of that trend.
that's a state mandate...no?
| 494 |
What, me worry? Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:19:41am |
re: #473 Aceofwhat?
income redistribution has been in the economic lexicon for a long, long time. do you mean that you're hearing it in different contexts than previously?
Not different contexts, just more loudly and more often by the losers.
| 495 |
Solomon2 Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:20:07am |
I believe Einstein made the quoted statement during WWI, when he was a Swiss citizen and anti-war activist, as the Germans and French battled each other for dominance. Years later he revised his views somewhat, for he realized he had confused nationalism with imperialism. A key success of the much-maligned Treaty of Versailles was the promotion of nationalism - splitting empires into separate countries by nationality. That made future wars much smaller - WWII excepted.
| 496 |
MandyManners Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:20:29am |
re: #489 Aceofwhat?
auto insurance.
the commerce clause has been beaten down for centuries. i have a really hard time seeing an imminent reversal of that trend.
The federal government does not force anyone to buy auto insurance. The states require but, the state does not utilitize its income taxation scheme to force it.
| 497 |
Aceofwhat? Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:20:55am |
re: #485 marjoriemoon
You're really comparing a car to health insurance. Really? You won't die without a car, btw.
What I'm disappointed in mostly is that the costs of meds have not been addressed. Or maybe they have in those 2000 pages, but I don't know. I certainly hope so. It's unconscionable for any medication to cost $3000 a month. Even $1000. To me, that's one of the largest issues.
I agree. I'd have much rather started with the premise that other countries not be permitted to tell our big pharma what price they'll pay, resulting in marked-up prices for Americans. Wouldn't that have been a sensible beginning? Why do we let Canada tell our drug companies what they're allowed to charge Canadians?
| 498 |
pingjockey Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:21:22am |
re: #493 albusteve
Yes. Driving a car requires insurance. Don't drive a car, ya don't need insurance. Like most of the non citizens where I live. Except they drive.
| 499 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:22:10am |
re: #492 marjoriemoon
Hello?? Bush put the burden on the lower and middle classes for his big ole fat government while giving breaks to the wealthy, not Obama.
Hello,,, tax revenue went UP (just as it did after the Kennedy and Reagan "tax breaks for the welthy) meaning the gov't recieved (wait for it) MORE money in tax colloections AFTER the tax cuts?
WHY?? those evel rich people started taking that money and instead of sending to Washington
A) invested it back into their companies
B) started OTHER companies
C) hired more people
resulting in
D) those people now
,,,1) being taken off of welfare
,,,2) paying taxes INTO the system
| 500 |
What, me worry? Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:22:43am |
re: #490 sattv4u2
You're really comparing a car to health insurance. Really? You won't die without a car, btw.
Way to miss the point
I'll do without the car reference.
There are problems in the system we had up to last week. Those problems should have and could have been isolated then addressed one at a time
(I beleive Ace enumerated several of them upthread)
Maybe if the Republicans had offered any real help more could have been done.
| 501 |
Aceofwhat? Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:23:01am |
re: #494 marjoriemoon
Not different contexts, just more loudly and more often by the losers.
That's a fair opinion. My difference with you is that i think (rightly or wrongly) that it's probably related to the fact that the losers have a tougher time preventing redistribution when they've lost, so i see a logical correlation there!
| 502 |
pingjockey Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:23:23am |
re: #499 sattv4u2
Don't make me break out Dr. McCoys logic quote!
| 503 |
albusteve Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:23:42am |
re: #492 marjoriemoon
Hello?? Bush put the burden on the lower and middle classes for his big ole fat government while giving breaks to the wealthy, not Obama.
that was yesterday....today is a whole new set of problems...get with the program
| 504 |
Varek Raith Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:24:20am |
Obama makes unannounced trip to Afghanistan
(CNN) -- President Obama made an unannounced trip to Afghanistan on Sunday.The president left his Camp David, Maryland, retreat for the trip and flew to Afghanistan on Air Force One, landing at Bagram Air Base at 7:24 p.m. (around 11 a.m. ET).
Obama then flew on a helicopter to the Presidential Palace for a meeting with Afghanistan's president, Hamid Karzai.
| 505 |
What, me worry? Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:24:20am |
re: #491 Walter L. Newton
Love it... did you two get your talking points at the same time this morning. Seems like there has been a few senators not "saying things too well" this week...
Dingell said " it takes a long time to do the necessary administrative steps that have to be taken to put the legislation together to control the people."
I guess he didn't say that too well either?
Wait a second, Walter. Wasn't it you who wanted socialized medicine? Free healthcare, government run? Who do you expect to pay for that? And this reform is no where near that.
| 506 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:24:40am |
re: #500 marjoriemoon
Maybe if the Republicans had offered any real help more could have been done.
Maybe if they were invited to a meeting or two they would have!
PLUS ,,,,, you do know that there were republican alternative bills crafted and presented, right?
Please reference Rep Ryan, Paul!
| 507 |
Aceofwhat? Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:25:18am |
re: #496 MandyManners
The federal government does not force anyone to buy auto insurance. The states require but, the state does not utilitize its income taxation scheme to force it.
forgive me. i am not saying there exists a perfect parallel. i am only saying that there already exist instances of federal regulation of activities that many of us might not deem "interstate commerce". does that make sense?
| 508 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:25:29am |
| 509 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:26:36am |
| 510 |
What, me worry? Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:26:41am |
re: #497 Aceofwhat?
I agree. I'd have much rather started with the premise that other countries not be permitted to tell our big pharma what price they'll pay, resulting in marked-up prices for Americans. Wouldn't that have been a sensible beginning? Why do we let Canada tell our drug companies what they're allowed to charge Canadians?
I'm not aware that other countries dictate what big pharma charges. Where did you read that? Because we give free AIDS meds to countries like Africa?
| 511 |
Aceofwhat? Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:26:45am |
re: #500 marjoriemoon
Maybe if the Republicans had offered any real help more could have been done.
I think it's a stretch to say that the Republicans were invited to participate in good faith.
| 512 |
MandyManners Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:27:04am |
re: #506 sattv4u2
Maybe if they were invited to a meeting or two they would have!
PLUS ,,, you do know that there were republican alternative bills crafted and presented, right?
Please reference Rep Ryan, Paul!
| 513 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:27:30am |
re: #510 marjoriemoon
I'm not aware that other countries dictate what big pharma charges. Where did you read that? Because we give free AIDS meds to countries like Africa?
{{shakes head}}
And who pays for that "free AIDS meds" !?!?!
| 514 |
MandyManners Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:27:36am |
re: #507 Aceofwhat?
forgive me. i am not saying there exists a perfect parallel. i am only saying that there already exist instances of federal regulation of activities that many of us might not deem "interstate commerce". does that make sense?
No. The feds have no role in it. It's a state requirement.
| 515 |
albusteve Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:27:56am |
re: #511 Aceofwhat?
I think it's a stretch to say that the Republicans were invited to participate in good faith.
an urban myth...already accepted as reality
| 516 |
Aceofwhat? Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:28:22am |
re: #510 marjoriemoon
I'm not aware that other countries dictate what big pharma charges. Where did you read that? Because we give free AIDS meds to countries like Africa?
It's been true for a long, long time. Why do you think the exact same drugs are cheaper in Canada? Johnson and Johnson don't sell their drugs for less to Canada because they're big hockey fans!
| 518 |
pingjockey Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:28:44am |
re: #508 sattv4u2
"Logic? The man's talking about logic! We're talkin' about universal Armeggedon! You green blooded, inhuman...."
Dr McCoy to Mr. Spock
Star Trek II The Wrath of Khan.
| 519 |
Walter L. Newton Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:28:54am |
re: #505 marjoriemoon
Wait a second, Walter. Wasn't it you who wanted socialized medicine? Free healthcare, government run? Who do you expect to pay for that? And this reform is no where near that.
Deflection on your part. I was asking you about the statements that Baucus and Dingell made. It's amazing to me, when the Democrats were trying to pass the bill, all they could do was blame the GOP for obstructing, even though the Dems had all the control they would have ever needed to pass the bill. But you couldn't own up to the fact that you were all eating each other, you had to blame the GOP.
And now that its' passed, and there is no reason for these senators to hide the real purposes of this bill, you have to play deflection.
Stop trying to pass the buck. You own this. Poeple like Baucas and Dingell are telling the truth, own up to that too.
And stop blaming it on the GOP. The Dems are far enough along in running this country now, it's you show, be proud.
| 520 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:29:26am |
re: #516 Aceofwhat?
It's been true for a long, long time. Why do you think the exact same drugs are cheaper in Canada? Johnson and Johnson don't sell their drugs for less to Canada because they're big hockey fans!
curling!
| 521 |
MandyManners Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:30:00am |
| 522 |
keloyd Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:30:14am |
re: #495 Solomon2
It was also the beginning of a big juicy FBI file that followed him the rest of his life. His pacifism (and being a secular Jew, which is even more spooky than an observant Jew) put the FBI right off when he tried to get a visa. He was kept out of the Manhattan Project because of a vendetta by various conservative activist groups teaming up with an FBI that was very conservative/Ivy league/WASPy at the time.
I have a book about it in a box in a storage unit now - it's good stuff. Some rich big shot industrialists' wives' group (think Heritage Foundation or Eagle Forum, but more wealthy and evil) had just finished fighting for prohibition and against the women's vote, then turned their sites on Einstein. He was really the poster boy for everything they were against.
| 524 |
What, me worry? Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:30:28am |
re: #499 sattv4u2
Hello,,, tax revenue went UP (just as it did after the Kennedy and Reagan "tax breaks for the welthy) meaning the gov't recieved (wait for it) MORE money in tax colloections AFTER the tax cuts?
WHY?? those evel rich people started taking that money and instead of sending to Washington
A) invested it back into their companies
B) started OTHER companies
C) hired more people
resulting in
D) those people now
,,,1) being taken off of welfare
,,,2) paying taxes INTO the system
LOL wow. So why do we continue to have a bludgeoning lower class fed by a shrinking middle class who can't afford the basics that their parents had 30 years ago. I mean, if the wealthy are so philanthropic and all.
| 525 |
What, me worry? Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:31:29am |
re: #503 albusteve
that was yesterday...today is a whole new set of problems...get with the program
Hey, if you're complaining about bit ole fat government, don't look my way, look your way.
| 526 |
albusteve Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:31:55am |
Thanks to the “judgment” of Congress that it can “create” new rights “ex nihili” (out of nothing) — namely the peculiar right to be forced to buy health insurance — the states, and the individual citizens therein, have fallen under the “dominion, absolute and unlimited,” of the federal government.
The argument is simple — that without any constitutional authority, the Congress of the United States has abrogated to itself the power to tell American citizens how they must spend their money. In doing so, it thumbed its nose at “we the people,” and at the Constitution. We have been ordered to buy health insurance whether we want it or not. So much for freedom
[Link: www.dailyinterlake.com...]
| 527 |
MandyManners Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:32:33am |
re: #526 albusteve
Thanks to the “judgment” of Congress that it can “create” new rights “ex nihili” (out of nothing) — namely the peculiar right to be forced to buy health insurance — the states, and the individual citizens therein, have fallen under the “dominion, absolute and unlimited,” of the federal government.
The argument is simple — that without any constitutional authority, the Congress of the United States has abrogated to itself the power to tell American citizens how they must spend their money. In doing so, it thumbed its nose at “we the people,” and at the Constitution. We have been ordered to buy health insurance whether we want it or not. So much for freedom[Link: www.dailyinterlake.com...]
Just wait until we're told that Internet access is a basic right.
| 529 |
keloyd Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:33:22am |
re: #524 marjoriemoon
LOL wow. So why do we continue to have a bludgeoning lower class fed by a shrinking middle class who can't afford the basics that their parents had 30 years ago. I mean, if the wealthy are so philanthropic and all.
I don't mean to sew dysentery in the ranks, but maybe it's a burgeoning lower class? Could go either way I guess.
| 530 |
MandyManners Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:33:59am |
re: #527 MandyManners
Just wait until we're told that Internet access is a basic right.
What then? Will we be forced to pay for high-speed internet connections for all? What about those who don't own computers? Will we be forced to buy computers for them?
| 531 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:34:08am |
re: #524 marjoriemoon
LOL wow. So why do we continue to have a bludgeoning lower class fed by a shrinking middle class who can't afford the basics that their parents had 30 years ago. I mean, if the wealthy are so philanthropic and all.
Ace asked you a question in #460, Care to take a swing at it?
| 532 |
pingjockey Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:34:26am |
re: #524 marjoriemoon
Let's see, I am an ebil corporate owner I employ 400 people, I can 1)payer higher taxes or 2) shrink my work force to cover the tax hike since my sales are shit due to the economy. What do you the the the debil like ebil corporate owner is gonna do? Business is in business for philanthropy.
| 533 |
Aceofwhat? Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:34:31am |
re: #514 MandyManners
No. The feds have no role in it. It's a state requirement.
ok. how about the agricultural adjustments act? the fed can regulate how much you're allowed to grow on your own land, regardless of whether you ship your farmed goods across state lines.
| 534 |
albusteve Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:35:16am |
re: #519 Walter L. Newton
Deflection on your part. I was asking you about the statements that Baucus and Dingell made. It's amazing to me, when the Democrats were trying to pass the bill, all they could do was blame the GOP for obstructing, even though the Dems had all the control they would have ever needed to pass the bill. But you couldn't own up to the fact that you were all eating each other, you had to blame the GOP.
And now that its' passed, and there is no reason for these senators to hide the real purposes of this bill, you have to play deflection.
Stop trying to pass the buck. You own this. Poeple like Baucas and Dingell are telling the truth, own up to that too.
And stop blaming it on the GOP. The Dems are far enough along in running this country now, it's you show, be proud.
leftbangers are never happy....they are relentless blame mongers, constantly searching for new targets...it's part of the 'govt fix' ideology
| 535 |
What, me worry? Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:35:21am |
re: #519 Walter L. Newton
Deflection on your part. I was asking you about the statements that Baucus and Dingell made. It's amazing to me, when the Democrats were trying to pass the bill, all they could do was blame the GOP for obstructing, even though the Dems had all the control they would have ever needed to pass the bill. But you couldn't own up to the fact that you were all eating each other, you had to blame the GOP.
And now that its' passed, and there is no reason for these senators to hide the real purposes of this bill, you have to play deflection.
Stop trying to pass the buck. You own this. Poeple like Baucas and Dingell are telling the truth, own up to that too.
And stop blaming it on the GOP. The Dems are far enough along in running this country now, it's you show, be proud.
We own it baby. Thank goodness we do. The Dems finally grew a pair.
I answered your question. Maybe you missed it. I'll say it now a third time. It's unfair to put higher tax burdens on those who can least afford it, despite poorly phrased statements. That's what he meant.
| 536 |
Aceofwhat? Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:35:41am |
re: #515 albusteve
an urban myth...already accepted as reality
heh, much like the "Bush said Iraq had WMD's" urban myth...it's amazing what a couple of bad journalists can provide to other journalists who provide to other journalists...
| 537 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:35:58am |
re: #527 MandyManners
Just wait until we're told that Internet access is a basic right.
It's becoming as important as a phone line or a road.
Are roads a basic right?
are power lines?
Is plumbing a basic right?
Maybe not, but they sure make things better.
| 538 |
pingjockey Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:36:17am |
Business is in business for philanthropy.
oops business in not in business for philanthropy.
damn!
| 539 |
What, me worry? Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:36:43am |
re: #519 Walter L. Newton
Deflection on your part. I was asking you about the statements that Baucus and Dingell made. It's amazing to me, when the Democrats were trying to pass the bill, all they could do was blame the GOP for obstructing, even though the Dems had all the control they would have ever needed to pass the bill. But you couldn't own up to the fact that you were all eating each other, you had to blame the GOP.
And now that its' passed, and there is no reason for these senators to hide the real purposes of this bill, you have to play deflection.
Stop trying to pass the buck. You own this. Poeple like Baucas and Dingell are telling the truth, own up to that too.
And stop blaming it on the GOP. The Dems are far enough along in running this country now, it's you show, be proud.
And I'm not being snarky to you or trying to deflect anything. I'm seriously asking you. I was surprised when I read you supported socialized medicine. I think it's a good idea, as long as you can pick your own docs or don't have to wait for care.
| 540 |
Lidane Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:37:11am |
The Tea Party's Rank Amateurism
I hear GOP folks and Tea Partiers bemoaning the fact that media and Democrats are using the extremes of their movement for ratings and to score points. This is like Drew Brees complaining that Dwight Freeney keeps trying to sack him. If that were Martin Luther King's response to media coverage, the South might still be segregated. I exaggerate, but my point is that the whining reflects a basic misunderstanding of the rules of protest. When you lead a protest you lead it, you own it, and your opponents, and the media, will hold you responsible for whatever happens in the course of that protest. This isn't left-wing bias, it's the nature of the threat.
There is of course a deeper question about the limits of strategy. It's possible that if the Tea Partiers cleaned up their ranks--purged the birthers, publicly rebuked people like this guy, banned Hitler signs, loudly rejected any instances of racism--that they simply wouldn't have much of a movement left. Martin Luther King was trying to lead a black community that was demonstrably patriotic, and had, in the main, rejected political violence as a strategy. He could afford to be picky. In the case of the Tea Parties, it's possible that once you subtract the jackasses, you just don't have enough energy left.
| 541 |
What, me worry? Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:37:18am |
re: #529 keloyd
I don't mean to sew dysentery in the ranks, but maybe it's a burgeoning lower class? Could go either way I guess.
lol whoops!!!
| 542 |
Aceofwhat? Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:37:37am |
re: #524 marjoriemoon
LOL wow. So why do we continue to have a bludgeoning lower class fed by a shrinking middle class who can't afford the basics that their parents had 30 years ago. I mean, if the wealthy are so philanthropic and all.
actually, you should look at % of income donated to charity by (a) political persuasion and (b) by country.
it's shocking how much less higher-tax inhabitants donate to charity. why would they? in their view, charity has become the government's role.
| 543 |
albusteve Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:37:39am |
re: #525 marjoriemoon
Hey, if you're complaining about bit ole fat government, don't look my way, look your way.
my way is fiscal conservatism...I care less about who bloated the feds, and more about how to slow down spending...that shit gets old, stale and unproductive
| 544 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:38:17am |
re: #535 marjoriemoon
ALSO ,, you stated upthread that one of you major issues with health care is the cost of meds. Understandable in light of what your mom went through, but that stated you also said you didn't know if this bill does anything to address it
ALSO ,,re: pre- existing conditions. I'm happy this bill DOES address that
BUT ,,,, they had to go back and re-write that portion because in the original that Obama signed there were HUGE loopholes
But these are the people you want to entrust it too
Ooookkkkkaaaayyyy!
| 545 |
albusteve Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:39:02am |
re: #524 marjoriemoon
LOL wow. So why do we continue to have a bludgeoning lower class fed by a shrinking middle class who can't afford the basics that their parents had 30 years ago. I mean, if the wealthy are so philanthropic and all.
that's a separate issue...tax cuts almost always create more revenue
| 546 |
Aceofwhat? Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:39:07am |
re: #537 WindUpBird
It's becoming as important as a phone line or a road.
Are roads a basic right?
are power lines?
Is plumbing a basic right?
Maybe not, but they sure make things better.
isn't dial-up internet basically free, though, if you want it?
| 547 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:39:18am |
re: #530 MandyManners
What then? Will we be forced to pay for high-speed internet connections for all? What about those who don't own computers? Will we be forced to buy computers for them?
Not the same thing, health care is a matter of distributing risk, internet access is not. Internet access is a utility, like a road.
You're already paying for the insured's health care because we don't prevent people from using ERs as their sole access to health care. Ideologically, it's irrelevant, we're all already paying for it whether you like it or not. Just like your car insurance reflects the risk of uninsured drivers, and why we have a mandate for car insurance. If we didn't have a mandate for car insurance, your rates would go up.
| 548 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:39:35am |
re: #547 WindUpBird
paying for the UNinsured, rather
| 549 |
keloyd Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:39:58am |
re: #541 marjoriemoon
lol whoops!!!
You like to bludgeon the peasants as much as the rest of us capitalist running dogs. Admit it! Let them eat cake, then I'm getting out the bludgeon!
| 550 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:40:04am |
re: #546 Aceofwhat?
isn't dial-up internet basically free, though, if you want it?
I don't know, I haven't used dialup in 8 years 8-)
Is that that Netzero thing?
| 551 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:40:10am |
re: #537 WindUpBird
It's becoming as important as a phone line or a road.
Are roads a basic right?
are power lines?
Is plumbing a basic right?
Maybe not, but they sure make things better.
yeah ,,, about thye "right" issue
I have the right to free speech, but if I choose to remain silent I don't get fined
I have the right to bear arms, but if I choose not to own a gun, I don't get fined
I now have the right to health ins, but if I choose not to buy it, I don't get ,,,oh , wait,,, shit!
| 552 |
What, me worry? Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:40:22am |
re: #531 sattv4u2
Ace asked you a question in #460, Care to take a swing at it?
Oh my bad. Sometimes I miss posts! My apologies.
I don't know what the upper 5% pay, but I work with them, so I'll ask tomorrow.
| 553 |
Aceofwhat? Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:40:42am |
re: #535 marjoriemoon
We own it baby. Thank goodness we do. The Dems finally grew a pair.
I answered your question. Maybe you missed it. I'll say it now a third time. It's unfair to put higher tax burdens on those who can least afford it, despite poorly phrased statements. That's what he meant.
what share of our taxes do the top 5% already pay?
| 554 |
pingjockey Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:41:07am |
re: #544 sattv4u2
I just hope the people who need the meds and have pre-existing conditions can hang on for 4 years...because most of the HCR doesn't kick in until 2014. So of course it had to be passed without being read and understood. BTW, even though the benefits don't start kicking in until 2014, the taxes start NOW!
| 555 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:41:42am |
re: #536 Aceofwhat?
heh, much like the "Bush said Iraq had WMD's" urban myth...it's amazing what a couple of bad journalists can provide to other journalists who provide to other journalists...
(((McSpiff downdinged ya ,, he "knows" that Bush did say that!!))
| 556 |
Aceofwhat? Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:41:46am |
re: #550 WindUpBird
I don't know, I haven't used dialup in 8 years 8-)
Is that that Netzero thing?
yes. so given that, is there anything left to discuss on the topic?
| 557 |
What, me worry? Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:41:59am |
re: #532 pingjockey
Let's see, I am an ebil corporate owner I employ 400 people, I can 1)payer higher taxes or 2) shrink my work force to cover the tax hike since my sales are shit due to the economy. What do you the the the debil like ebil corporate owner is gonna do? Business is in business for philanthropy.
I would respond to that if it made any sense. I have no idea what you're asking me.
| 558 |
Aceofwhat? Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:42:38am |
re: #555 sattv4u2
(((McSpiff downdinged ya ,, he "knows" that Bush did say that!!))
Dear gracious. I have bridges to sell him, in that case. Facts are such troublesome items...
| 559 |
simoom Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:42:54am |
re: #449 Walter L. Newton
Go ahead, you give me the "spin" on what Baucus was really saying?
It's not necessary to spin it. Baucus is correct. The legislation that Congress passes has a direct effect on income / wealth disparity in this country. It's just that for a long time now the laws and regulations they've enacted have redistributed wealth toward the top. For example the bank deregulation of the 80's and 90's coincided with financial sector wages (when compared with private sector wages) going through the roof.
Over the last decade, median income has stayed flat even as expenses like healthcare, schooling, etc have shot up, while the top earners continue to get wealthier and wealthier:
Top 1% of Earner's Income Share (graph)
Top .01% of Earner's Income Share (graph)
A collection of wealth distributiong charts
Wealth disparity is back where it was at in the 1920's while the real tax % the big earners pay way down. These trends are not healthy for the cohesion of our society, and if any current legislation succeeds in moving the needle in the other direction (for example the HCR bill), it would be about time.
| 560 |
Jadespring Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:43:58am |
re: #491 Walter L. Newton
Love it... did you two get your talking points at the same time this morning. Seems like there has been a few senators not "saying things too well" this week...
Dingell said " it takes a long time to do the necessary administrative steps that have to be taken to put the legislation together to control the people."
I guess he didn't say that too well either?
You know Walter I'm going to have to tell you to shove it on your 'talking point' blather. At least in reference to me. I really have no iron in the fire so to speak when it comes to Bauchus. He's not in my government and what he says and does will not have a whole lot of affect on me personally. I'm not a Dem or a Dem supporter.
I am however a follower of politics and just a general geek when it comes to these sort of things and like has been shown on LGF numerous times whether D or R that sometimes there is more to the story then just pull quotes. That's not spin, that's just asking and being prudent in my books. I'm actually interested in what these two had to say for pretty much the same reasons you seem to be concerned about.
I'm not sure why the notion of asking whether if these quotes came from a larger bunch of political blather is so deplorable and/or wrong.
| 561 |
albusteve Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:44:10am |
re: #555 sattv4u2
(((McSpiff downdinged ya ,, he "knows" that Bush did say that!!))
I doubt he was even around at the time...a lot of our younger posters just take for granted the pablum they've heard or read
| 562 |
keloyd Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:45:24am |
Not to split hairs, but we did find WMD's in Iraq from the 1992 era, just not as much as we wanted. We didn't squish Uncle Saddam after Gulf War 1 on the condition that the UN kept him on a short leash re WMDs and inspections. He didn't comply in 100 ways. I still do not see the US interest in going into Iraq, but the legal machinations were all in order to give us the option.
Rove and Condi Rice answering every question in 2003 with "...9/11..." that's just shenanigans.
| 563 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:45:26am |
re: #561 albusteve
I doubt he was even around at the time...a lot of our younger posters just take for granted the pablum they've heard or read
wow ,, that would make McSpiff ,,,,, 8-9 years old!!
Young Lizard!
| 564 |
pingjockey Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:46:15am |
re: #557 marjoriemoon
You were equating the rich and philanthropy. Philanthropy is charity, not taxes. You raises taxes on the top 5%, re-investment in business goes down, unemployment goes up. I made a rippin' 60k thereabouts last year, I have 2 kids under 17, own my own home and was out of work with no pay for 4 mos due to cancer. You what my tax return was...180$ That's it, I can't even pay my property taxes! Don't tell me we the people aren't over taxed.
| 565 |
Jadespring Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:46:20am |
re: #546 Aceofwhat?
isn't dial-up internet basically free, though, if you want it?
No. It's really, really cheap though.
| 566 |
Aceofwhat? Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:46:37am |
re: #552 marjoriemoon
Oh my bad. Sometimes I miss posts! My apologies.
I don't know what the upper 5% pay, but I work with them, so I'll ask tomorrow.
no problem! and i wasn't trying to lay a trap.
in 2006, i think the top 5% paid about 60% of the taxes.
the bottom half of the country pays about 3% of the taxes.
i just have a terribly hard time seeing that as a "burden". i'm just trying to ask you to reflect on your terminology here in light of the hard numbers. how much less should half of the country pay before they're not "burdened"? and what incentive will they have to join the top 50%?
| 567 |
Killgore Trout Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:47:16am |
Massive Federal Raid in Lenawee County
The FBI, the Department of Homeland Security and the Joint Terrorism Task Force are all involved in raids around Adrian that may be connected to a militia group.The FBI conducted multiple raids throughout Saturday and into Sunday, with one of them centered on a property where known members of a militia live.
....
Helicopters were spotted in the sky for much of the night, and agents set up checkpoints throughout the area, including in Sand Creek and Clayton in Lenawee County. Witnesses tell Action News that it was like a small army had descended on the area.
.....
Members of a number of militia groups say that the raids are connected to raids in Indiana and Ohio. However, the FBI has not confirmed that.
| 568 |
Aceofwhat? Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:47:24am |
re: #559 simoom
It's not necessary to spin it. Baucus is correct. The legislation that Congress passes has a direct effect on income / wealth disparity in this country. It's just that for a long time now the laws and regulations they've enacted have redistributed wealth toward the top. For example the bank deregulation of the 80's and 90's coincided with financial sector wages (when compared with private sector wages) going through the roof.
Over the last decade, median income has stayed flat even as expenses like healthcare, schooling, etc have shot up, while the top earners continue to get wealthier and wealthier:
Top 1% of Earner's Income Share (graph)
Top .01% of Earner's Income Share (graph)
A collection of wealth distributiong chartsWealth disparity is back where it was at in the 1920's while the real tax % the big earners pay way down. These trends are not healthy for the cohesion of our society, and if any current legislation succeeds in moving the needle in the other direction (for example the HCR bill), it would be about time.
tsk, tsk. don't show the top 1% income share without showing the top 1% tax share.
| 569 |
avanti Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:47:32am |
re: #537 WindUpBird
It's becoming as important as a phone line or a road.
Are roads a basic right?
are power lines?
Is plumbing a basic right?
Maybe not, but they sure make things better.
Excellent point. When we built the inter state highway system, or do high speed rail, the individual tax payer may not see a direct benefit, but they'll get it indirectly. If you are happy with dial up, you may not see why we need to improve the national internet "highway", but you'll still benefit. Our high speed internet service lags way behind other countries and we all suffer from that. Faster access to knowledge is a good thing as a national policy.
| 570 |
Aceofwhat? Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:47:46am |
| 571 |
albusteve Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:47:52am |
re: #563 sattv4u2
wow ,, that would make McSpiff ,,, 8-9 years old!!
Young Lizard!
hatchling actually means something you know
| 572 |
What, me worry? Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:48:01am |
re: #544 sattv4u2
ALSO ,, you stated upthread that one of you major issues with health care is the cost of meds. Understandable in light of what your mom went through, but that stated you also said you didn't know if this bill does anything to address it
ALSO ,,re: pre- existing conditions. I'm happy this bill DOES address that
BUT ,,, they had to go back and re-write that portion because in the original that Obama signed there were HUGE loopholes
But these are the people you want to entrust it too
Ooookkkaaayyy!
Well I'm a dem liberal so I support them. Doesn't mean I agree with everything. I think you can say the same (assuming you're a Repub).
I'm happy about the existing conditions clause. I'm also questioning the buying over state lines since insurance is regulated by each state (or was...) there was great cause for concern that people weren't aware what they were buying, meaning that when they got sick, and they bought a policy in another state, they could be sure they were covered. But I think they tweaked that in HCR.
| 573 |
What, me worry? Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:48:43am |
re: #545 albusteve
that's a separate issue...tax cuts almost always create more revenue
You're a trickle down kinda guy, ain't ya.
| 574 |
What, me worry? Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:49:03am |
re: #549 keloyd
You like to bludgeon the peasants as much as the rest of us capitalist running dogs. Admit it! Let them eat cake, then I'm getting out the bludgeon!
rofl
| 575 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:49:25am |
re: #566 Aceofwhat?
well stated
Short answer. There IS no incentive
Just like if I were making $240 K a year. Knowing that my tax rate will skyrocket if I get a very modest 3% raise (now making over 250K) why should I!?!?
| 576 |
Aceofwhat? Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:49:29am |
re: #569 avanti
Excellent point. When we built the inter state highway system, or do high speed rail, the individual tax payer may not see a direct benefit, but they'll get it indirectly. If you are happy with dial up, you may not see why we need to improve the national internet "highway", but you'll still benefit. Our high speed internet service lags way behind other countries and we all suffer from that. Faster access to knowledge is a good thing as a national policy.
disagree wholly. access to knowledge is a good thing. FASTER access to knowledge is probably just fine if it's purchased by people who can afford it because their time is better spent doing other things than waiting for their page to download more slowly.
| 577 |
gamark Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:49:41am |
c/342/8235716">#342 Bulldoglover100
Car insurance is not required in all states. In the states where it is required, it is only required as a condition for using public highways. There are lots of 12-13 year olds around here driving pickup trucks on their parent's farm with no license, no insurance, no tag. All perfectly legal.
| 578 |
What, me worry? Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:50:48am |
re: #549 keloyd
You like to bludgeon the peasants as much as the rest of us capitalist running dogs. Admit it! Let them eat cake, then I'm getting out the bludgeon!
And my husband just spit his afternoon beer across the room. lol
| 579 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:50:52am |
re: #568 Aceofwhat?
tsk, tsk. don't show the top 1% income share without showing the top 1% tax share.
but if he did ,,, it wouldn't look,, well ,.,,, skewed and "unfair"!
| 580 |
albusteve Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:51:20am |
re: #573 marjoriemoon
You're a trickle down kinda guy, ain't ya.
just sticking to the intention of the posts
| 581 |
What, me worry? Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:51:22am |
re: #553 Aceofwhat?
what share of our taxes do the top 5% already pay?
Sorry see the response just above that one :)
| 582 |
keloyd Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:51:38am |
re: #575 sattv4u2
well stated
Short answer. There IS no incentive
Just like if I were making $240 K a year. Knowing that my tax rate will skyrocket if I get a very modest 3% raise (now making over 250K) why should I!?!?
You pay the same tax on teh first $240k when you get a raise to 250k. I think that holds even if you cross into alt. minimum tax territory, which you may at that level, but just barely.
/hates the alt. minimum tax, but won't come close to paying it any time soon. I'm storing up the hate for later.
| 583 |
Aceofwhat? Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:51:54am |
re: #579 sattv4u2
but if he did ,,, it wouldn't look,, well ,.,,, skewed and "unfair"!
i thought simoom was a 'she'...whoopsie...
| 584 |
What, me worry? Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:52:06am |
re: #559 simoom
It's not necessary to spin it. Baucus is correct. The legislation that Congress passes has a direct effect on income / wealth disparity in this country. It's just that for a long time now the laws and regulations they've enacted have redistributed wealth toward the top. For example the bank deregulation of the 80's and 90's coincided with financial sector wages (when compared with private sector wages) going through the roof.
Over the last decade, median income has stayed flat even as expenses like healthcare, schooling, etc have shot up, while the top earners continue to get wealthier and wealthier:
Top 1% of Earner's Income Share (graph)
Top .01% of Earner's Income Share (graph)
A collection of wealth distributiong chartsWealth disparity is back where it was at in the 1920's while the real tax % the big earners pay way down. These trends are not healthy for the cohesion of our society, and if any current legislation succeeds in moving the needle in the other direction (for example the HCR bill), it would be about time.
Thanks my dear!
| 585 |
sattv4u2 Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:52:23am |
| 587 |
Aceofwhat? Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:53:08am |
| 588 |
simoom Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:53:20am |
re: #568 Aceofwhat?
tsk, tsk. don't show the top 1% income share without showing the top 1% tax share.
Their tax share is up because their income share is up even more.
| 589 |
jaunte Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:53:45am |
'Fixing' wealth disparity, and raising revenue to run the government are two separate issues.
| 590 |
Aceofwhat? Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:54:01am |
re: #582 keloyd
You pay the same tax on teh first $240k when you get a raise to 250k. I think that holds even if you cross into alt. minimum tax territory, which you may at that level, but just barely.
/hates the alt. minimum tax, but won't come close to paying it any time soon. I'm storing up the hate for later.
no, if you cross into alt. minimum, you throw the book out. it's a nasty little devil.
| 591 |
Aceofwhat? Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:55:07am |
re: #588 simoom
Their tax share is up because their income share is up even more.
the bottom half is not "burdened" in any sense of the word. the bottom half pays 3% of the taxes. it strains credulity as a talking point.
| 592 |
What, me worry? Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:56:44am |
| 593 |
Killgore Trout Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:56:56am |
| 594 |
avanti Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:57:05am |
re: #576 Aceofwhat?
disagree wholly. access to knowledge is a good thing. FASTER access to knowledge is probably just fine if it's purchased by people who can afford it because their time is better spent doing other things than waiting for their page to download more slowly.
As with the national inter state highway system, no one is saying we'll give you a free car. Upgrading the internet infrastructure gives us the highway, but you still need the car, (computer) and pay for the gas (service fee).
If you can afford and need high speed access for your business or personal use, the government can help expand access. It's no different than building a bridge to the eastern shore of Md years ago. Once built, the eastern shore became a 10 minute commute from the rest of Md, but only for those with cars.
| 595 |
Aceofwhat? Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:57:42am |
re: #588 simoom
Their tax share is up because their income share is up even more.
and that would be true even if the tax was flatter. if you and i both pay 20% but you make more than i do, you pay more taxes...
| 596 |
WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:58:18am |
re: #551 sattv4u2
yeah ,,, about thye "right" issue
I have the right to free speech, but if I choose to remain silent I don't get fined
I have the right to bear arms, but if I choose not to own a gun, I don't get fined
I now have the right to health ins, but if I choose not to buy it, I don't get ,,,oh , wait,,, shit!
it's needed. We have to do it. Period, end of story. The mandate is essential. Otherwise the system will be broken. If you don't have health care, and you break your leg, or you need an emergency appendectomy, or you have a tonic-clonic seizure, my ass (and every other taxpayer) pays for you. And I want that to stop. it's the adult thing to recognize that the system as it stands is broken, it must change.
I like living in a country that recognizes that the machinery of health care cannot be ignored any longer. We can't just put our hands over our eyes and ignore the distribution of risk that must happen.
| 597 |
pingjockey Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:59:16am |
re: #594 avanti
How about uprading the sewer/bridge/road/water/power distribution infrastucture before fooling with the internet?
| 598 |
What, me worry? Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:59:40am |
re: #577 gamark
c/342/8235716">#342 Bulldoglover100
Car insurance is not required in all states. In the states where it is required, it is only required as a condition for using public highways. There are lots of 12-13 year olds around here driving pickup trucks on their parent's farm with no license, no insurance, no tag. All perfectly legal.
That's not true. Here in Florida, you can't register a car without insurance. They want to see your card, or at least make you sign that you have valid insurance.
| 599 |
Aceofwhat? Sun, Mar 28, 2010 9:59:43am |
re: #594 avanti
As with the national inter state highway system, no one is saying we'll give you a free car. Upgrading the internet infrastructure gives us the highway, but you still need the car, (computer) and pay for the gas (service fee).
If you can afford and need high speed access for your business or personal use, the government can help expand access. It's no different than building a bridge to the eastern shore of Md years ago. Once built, the eastern shore became a 10 minute commute from the rest of Md, but only for those with cars.
Huh? Can't i pay $50/month for a little wireless thingy, buy a laptop, and have high-speed access all over the place?
Why this insistence on fixing things that aren't exactly broke? Or do i misunderstand how much you want the govt to intervene here? I don't want to read too much into what you're saying...
| 600 |
Aceofwhat? Sun, Mar 28, 2010 10:00:46am |
re: #596 WindUpBird
it's needed. We have to do it. Period, end of story. The mandate is essential. Otherwise the system will be broken. If you don't have health care, and you break your leg, or you need an emergency appendectomy, or you have a tonic-clonic seizure, my ass (and every other taxpayer) pays for you. And I want that to stop. it's the adult thing to recognize that the system as it stands is broken, it must change.
I like living in a country that recognizes that the machinery of health care cannot be ignored any longer. We can't just put our hands over our eyes and ignore the distribution of risk that must happen.
totally agree, as someone who leans right. but a catastrophic coverage mandate is SO not the same thing as a comprehensive coverage mandate. the former would address your hypothetical at much lower cost to the rest of us...
| 602 |
albusteve Sun, Mar 28, 2010 10:01:02am |
So here we are. After 15 months of pleading with the mullahs and entreating our allies for help, Barack Obama’s Iran policy is such a dismal failure that administration flacks are left to tout as a breakthrough Chinese participation in a phone call to discuss watered-down U.N. sanctions that few believe will work.
BO has been played like a fiddle by the Chinese and the Russians...what new waste of time will he cook up next?....lot's of people here say BO is doing a fine job with regards to Iran...I heartily disagree if only because he's making America look like a bunch of rubes
| 603 |
simoom Sun, Mar 28, 2010 10:01:14am |
re: #591 Aceofwhat?
the bottom half is not "burdened" in any sense of the word. the bottom half pays 3% of the taxes. it strains credulity as a talking point.
Are you including payroll taxes and the recently cut capital gains rates with federal income taxes when looking at the share of federal tax burdens?
| 604 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Mar 28, 2010 10:01:21am |
re: #598 marjoriemoon
That's not true. Here in Florida, you can't register a car without insurance. They want to see your card, or at least make you sign that you have valid insurance.
You can drive on private property without it being tagged. I worked for a roadbuilding company and we had "site dump trucks" that were used with no tags.
| 605 |
Aceofwhat? Sun, Mar 28, 2010 10:01:30am |
re: #592 marjoriemoon
I think Simoom has a better grasp of the issue than I do.
but i like talking to you! (not that Simoom isn't welcome, of course;)
| 606 |
albusteve Sun, Mar 28, 2010 10:01:51am |
Appeasing the Mullahs
How the Obama administration learned to love the Iranian bomb.
[Link: www.weeklystandard.com...]
| 607 |
keloyd Sun, Mar 28, 2010 10:02:09am |
Ace-
I haven't had reason to run the #s for the alt minimum tax in several years, so I defer on that. Still the $250k guy may have a wife and 7 kids or something, then no problems?
In other news, Obama is dropping the ball with NASA. There's always some reason to put off spending money on space exploration...or art, or high culture, or music, or beautiful architecture. I hope JFK's ghost haunts someone until this gets put right.
| 608 |
Aceofwhat? Sun, Mar 28, 2010 10:03:28am |
re: #603 simoom
Are you including payroll taxes and the recently cut capital gains rates with federal income taxes when looking at the share of federal tax burdens?
cutting the capital gains rate was followed by a boost in federal tax receipts, IIRC. i don't think you want me to include that particular effect!
| 609 |
keloyd Sun, Mar 28, 2010 10:03:28am |
re: #598 marjoriemoon
That's not true. Here in Florida, you can't register a car without insurance. They want to see your card, or at least make you sign that you have valid insurance.
ah, but your car need not be registered to drive on the farm. Registration is required only for roads, so the example is valid, if very narrow.
| 610 |
pingjockey Sun, Mar 28, 2010 10:06:07am |
I don't envy the Secret Service, army, airforce, or marines today. Landing AF1 in Kabul and visiting Bagram AFB, you know the jihadis are having fits trying to figure out someway to get close.
| 611 |
What, me worry? Sun, Mar 28, 2010 10:06:11am |
re: #604 Cannadian Club Akbar
You can drive on private property without it being tagged. I worked for a roadbuilding company and we had "site dump trucks" that were used with no tags.
I don't know. I had a 1973 Superbeetle that didn't run and I was fined because it wasn't registered. I'm trying to remember if they made me buy insurance for it too. I think so, because they want it at the time of registration. Paying hundreds for that f*g car that didn't even run, I tried to get the money together to fix it, but I ended up trading it to my mechanic. The 2 ton paperweight in my driveway...
| 612 |
What, me worry? Sun, Mar 28, 2010 10:06:28am |
re: #605 Aceofwhat?
but i like talking to you! (not that Simoom isn't welcome, of course;)
I can feel the love baby.
| 613 |
jaunte Sun, Mar 28, 2010 10:06:53am |
re: #608 Aceofwhat?
cutting the capital gains rate was followed by a boost in federal tax receipts, IIRC. i don't think you want me to include that particular effect!
I'd like to see a cut in capital gains taxes and corporate taxes. That would stimulate some more employment.
| 614 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Mar 28, 2010 10:07:16am |
re: #611 marjoriemoon
I have a truck I bought in '06 I still haven't registered it. No fines.
| 615 |
What, me worry? Sun, Mar 28, 2010 10:07:33am |
re: #609 keloyd
ah, but your car need not be registered to drive on the farm. Registration is required only for roads, so the example is valid, if very narrow.
I thought we were talking about cars, not farm machinery.
| 616 |
Aceofwhat? Sun, Mar 28, 2010 10:07:33am |
re: #607 keloyd
Ace-
I haven't had reason to run the #s for the alt minimum tax in several years, so I defer on that. Still the $250k guy may have a wife and 7 kids or something, then no problems?
Once you trigger it, you get one standard deduction and a non-negotiable percentage. Your kids and mortgages are no longer a concern...
| 617 |
What, me worry? Sun, Mar 28, 2010 10:07:59am |
re: #614 Cannadian Club Akbar
I have a truck I bought in '06 I still haven't registered it. No fines.
Where in FL do you live?
| 618 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Mar 28, 2010 10:08:24am |
| 619 |
pingjockey Sun, Mar 28, 2010 10:08:31am |
re: #611 marjoriemoon
Some municipalities do that to keep busted down cars from "cluttering" the neighborhood. IIRC, one of the communites around San Diego would not allow you to park your boat or camping trailer, giant SUV on the streets.
| 620 |
What, me worry? Sun, Mar 28, 2010 10:08:46am |
| 621 |
What, me worry? Sun, Mar 28, 2010 10:09:02am |
re: #620 marjoriemoon
Hmmm... i have
meaningmeaner code enforcement than you I guess!
| 622 |
boogberg Sun, Mar 28, 2010 10:09:27am |
Hi folks! :)
I'll be damned. I didn't know Charles was in to comic books. Who knew? lol
| 623 |
Cannadian Club Akbar Sun, Mar 28, 2010 10:09:53am |
re: #620 marjoriemoon
Hmmm... i have meaning code enforcement than you I guess!
Could be. If anyone gave me any shit, I would put it in my pole barn.:)
| 624 |
What, me worry? Sun, Mar 28, 2010 10:10:08am |
re: #619 pingjockey
Some municipalities do that to keep busted down cars from "cluttering" the neighborhood. IIRC, one of the communites around San Diego would not allow you to park your boat or camping trailer, giant SUV on the streets.
Exactamundo.
Now I'm pissed that dump trucks and farm equipment don't t have to be registered or insured. What's up with that?
| 626 |
Aceofwhat? Sun, Mar 28, 2010 10:12:03am |
re: #624 marjoriemoon
Exactamundo.
Now I'm pissed that dump trucks and farm equipment don't t have to be registered or insured. What's up with that?
Heh. Why mandate tractor insurance? A poorly plowed field is its own penalty/
| 627 |
simoom Sun, Mar 28, 2010 10:12:22am |
re: #608 Aceofwhat?
cutting the capital gains rate was followed by a boost in federal tax receipts, IIRC. i don't think you want me to include that particular effect!
I'm not sure I'm getting your argument? I thought we were discussing tax burden, not increases in revenue. Yes revenue went up as GDP went up (though obviously both tanked recently) as the wealthiest's share of income went up as the medium income stagnated.
This article includes charts of the % of taxes paid by the top 400 wealthiest Americans (since the 90's) and and a second chart that documents their average tax rate:
(Time) The 400 Richest Americans and their Terrible Tax Burden
| 628 |
pingjockey Sun, Mar 28, 2010 10:13:01am |
re: #624 marjoriemoon
Because they aren't using the regular streets. Here in WA state, you put an orange triangle placard on your farm vehicle and it can go for short distances on the local roads. I was 13 and driving tractors around the orchard.
| 629 |
What, me worry? Sun, Mar 28, 2010 10:13:25am |
re: #626 Aceofwhat?
Heh. Why mandate tractor insurance? A poorly plowed field is its own penalty/
Tractors, maybe not, but you can run over someone or run into something, yes? Dump trucks? I see them on the roads all the time.
| 630 |
What, me worry? Sun, Mar 28, 2010 10:14:12am |
re: #628 pingjockey
Because they aren't using the regular streets. Here in WA state, you put an orange triangle placard on your farm vehicle and it can go for short distances on the local roads. I was 13 and driving tractors around the orchard.
On my International Harvester!! 3 miles of cars laying on their horns..... :)
| 631 |
What, me worry? Sun, Mar 28, 2010 10:14:38am |
Ooo mummy on the phone.. Una momenta.
| 632 |
simoom Sun, Mar 28, 2010 10:14:44am |
| 633 |
Jadespring Sun, Mar 28, 2010 10:14:49am |
re: #629 marjoriemoon
Tractors, maybe not, but you can run over someone or run into something, yes? Dump trucks? I see them on the roads all the time.
I think, here at least, if something happens with your tractor it would be covered by your general farm insurance.
| 636 |
Aceofwhat? Sun, Mar 28, 2010 10:17:04am |
re: #627 simoom
the gist of my argument is that it is possible to collect more income from a group while lowering their tax rates. our focus should be on collecting the maximum income. considering the rates in isolation from their effect on the economy is mathematically unsound.
if you could collect 10% more income by reducing the capital gains tax, wouldn't you? shouldn't our focus be on finding the right percentages? i want the wealthy to pay a lot of taxes too...i just disagree that you're going about it the right way.
| 637 |
Aceofwhat? Sun, Mar 28, 2010 10:18:11am |
re: #629 marjoriemoon
Tractors, maybe not, but you can run over someone or run into something, yes? Dump trucks? I see them on the roads all the time.
i'm with you on the dump trucks. the tractors...if you run into a tree and only damage your own property, it's your own fault. if i play golf in my house i might break my TV. doesn't mean i need to insure it.
| 638 |
jaunte Sun, Mar 28, 2010 10:18:17am |
re: #636 Aceofwhat?
If only politicians could stop chasing the mirage of fairness and concentrate on revenue.
| 639 |
avanti Sun, Mar 28, 2010 10:19:38am |
re: #597 pingjockey
How about uprading the sewer/bridge/road/water/power distribution infrastucture before fooling with the internet?
That's a much bigger number, by powers of 10.
| 640 |
pingjockey Sun, Mar 28, 2010 10:19:54am |
re: #638 jaunte
Not gonna happen. Class warfare works too good for some people and their election/re-election.
| 641 |
pingjockey Sun, Mar 28, 2010 10:20:40am |
re: #639 avanti
It is still more important than faster internet and needs to be done.
| 642 |
Killgore Trout Sun, Mar 28, 2010 10:20:58am |
re: #636 Aceofwhat?
if you could collect 10% more income by reducing the capital gains tax, wouldn't you? shouldn't our focus be on finding the right percentages? i want the wealthy to pay a lot of taxes too...i just disagree that you're going about it the right way.
The counter argument is that the increase in revenue is only temporary. When the tax rate is lowered there's a flurry of activity of people taking advantage of the lower rate but then things slow down again resulting is lower tax revenue.
| 643 |
Aceofwhat? Sun, Mar 28, 2010 10:21:30am |
re: #627 simoom
I'm not sure I'm getting your argument? I thought we were discussing tax burden, not increases in revenue. Yes revenue went up as GDP went up (though obviously both tanked recently) as the wealthiest's share of income went up as the medium income stagnated.
This article includes charts of the % of taxes paid by the top 400 wealthiest Americans (since the 90's) and and a second chart that documents their average tax rate:
(Time) The 400 Richest Americans and their Terrible Tax Burden
median incomes have a lot to do with behavior. plenty of median folks out there living beyond median means...it's not our job to make them more wealthy. if investments help the rich get richer, the less rich should be investing as much as possible, right?
those who buy tv's and new cars instead of buying IRA's aren't exactly garnering my sympathy. i'm not rich, but i intend to be closer to rich by the time i retire. why should i subsidize those who aren't saving as scrupulously as i am??
| 644 |
Aceofwhat? Sun, Mar 28, 2010 10:21:43am |
re: #638 jaunte
If only politicians could stop chasing the mirage of fairness and concentrate on revenue.
bingo
| 645 |
Aceofwhat? Sun, Mar 28, 2010 10:23:19am |
re: #642 Killgore Trout
The counter argument is that the increase in revenue is only temporary. When the tax rate is lowered there's a flurry of activity of people taking advantage of the lower rate but then things slow down again resulting is lower tax revenue.
as Jaunte said, i want maximum revenue. fairness is a red herring in our current situation, IMHO. the bottom half of the country are not unfairly taxed.
| 647 |
Aceofwhat? Sun, Mar 28, 2010 10:25:06am |
| 648 |
pingjockey Sun, Mar 28, 2010 10:25:32am |
Hitchens not cutting the Pope any slack. Kinda figured that.
| 649 |
albusteve Sun, Mar 28, 2010 10:27:41am |
In Indiana, state-trained workers flubbed insulation jobs. In Alaska, Wyoming and the District of Columbia, the program has yet to produce a single job or retrofit one home. And in California, a state with nearly 37 million residents, the program at last count had created 84 jobs.
RECOVERY!
[Link: news.yahoo.com...]
| 650 |
pingjockey Sun, Mar 28, 2010 10:27:45am |
re: #647 Aceofwhat?
Tennis IS NOT one of my priorities! Used to watch years ago. It may be just me, but back in the 70s and 80s the players seemed a little more "flamboyant". But that maybe just me. Thinking Connors, Nastase, etc...
| 651 |
tradewind Sun, Mar 28, 2010 10:28:06am |
Okay, I feel so much better now that we have assurances.//
[Link: blogs.abcnews.com...]
| 652 |
Aceofwhat? Sun, Mar 28, 2010 10:29:40am |
re: #650 pingjockey
Tennis IS NOT one of my priorities! Used to watch years ago. It may be just me, but back in the 70s and 80s the players seemed a little more "flamboyant". But that maybe just me. Thinking Connors, Nastase, etc...
it's definitely one of those sports that is much more fun to watch if you play it. i can understand that it's hard to appreciate otherwise.
| 653 |
lawhawk Sun, Mar 28, 2010 10:29:51am |
re: #642 Killgore Trout
Yet there's plenty of evidence that higher taxes and the projected revenues they're supposed to bring, don't pan out either. NY passed a payroll tax increase to fund the MTA, and it ended up bringing in hundreds of millions less - making the MTA's problems even worse.
When you have overly rosy budget projections and the revenues don't come in as expected, deficits grow. We need the politicians and experts to be a whole lot more honest and a whole lot more conservative when it comes to budget projections. (Conservative here means to not make overly optimistic assumptions, which is a problem throughout government at all levels).
You take a look around the country at the pension mess, you see lots of states that thought that they'd get 8% returns, and therefore cut their contributions. When the returns didn't materialize, and the contributions were cut, you got a double whammy.
| 654 |
albusteve Sun, Mar 28, 2010 10:30:04am |
re: #651 tradewind
Okay, I feel so much better now that we have assurances.//
[Link: blogs.abcnews.com...]
back down?...from hundreds of billions invested into the biggest, baddest program to be somebody?....bwahahaha!
| 655 |
pingjockey Sun, Mar 28, 2010 10:30:12am |
re: #649 albusteve
You know, if they'd of cut every tax payer a check out of the stimulus money people would've paid down debt, remodeled homes, bought cars, fridges, freezers, etc. IIRC it would have come out to over 20k to everyone who filed a tax return.
| 656 |
pingjockey Sun, Mar 28, 2010 10:30:55am |
re: #652 Aceofwhat?
I used to be a big fan, just got away from it.
| 657 |
jaunte Sun, Mar 28, 2010 10:32:01am |
re: #651 tradewind
Okay, I feel so much better now that we have assurances.//
[Link: blogs.abcnews.com...]
“I think we have a strong force in the making and Iran will back down,” Jarrett said.
What exactly does she mean by back down?
| 658 |
Aceofwhat? Sun, Mar 28, 2010 10:32:14am |
re: #656 pingjockey
I used to be a big fan, just got away from it.
no one has ever played the game like Federer. that guy makes butter look rough.
| 659 |
pingjockey Sun, Mar 28, 2010 10:32:47am |
re: #651 tradewind
I really want some of what she's smoking.
| 660 |
Digital Display Sun, Mar 28, 2010 10:33:34am |
re: #650 pingjockey
Tennis IS NOT one of my priorities! Used to watch years ago. It may be just me, but back in the 70s and 80s the players seemed a little more "flamboyant". But that maybe just me. Thinking Connors, Nastase, etc...
I can't stand tennis...
Well Lizards...30 minutes till College Basketball.. After watching last night with our local college going to the Final 4..Very exciting! Then I watched the Aussie F1 live overnight and then panned Clint Eastwood movies this morning..
I am Jacked up and ready to go for more basketball!
I'm going to post the Lizard prayer list in a few..Any one we need to add today?
| 661 |
tradewind Sun, Mar 28, 2010 10:33:34am |
re: #654 albusteve
Let her be clear.... an open hand can beat a closed fist any day.
| 662 |
albusteve Sun, Mar 28, 2010 10:33:38am |
re: #655 pingjockey
You know, if they'd of cut every tax payer a check out of the stimulus money people would've paid down debt, remodeled homes, bought cars, fridges, freezers, etc. IIRC it would have come out to over 20k to everyone who filed a tax return.
the Stimulus is the rip off of the century...completely childish and pandering, just a complete waste of money imo
| 663 |
Killgore Trout Sun, Mar 28, 2010 10:33:43am |
re: #653 lawhawk
Agreed. I think there's a lot of room for reasonable debate. I'm a little worried about the Republicans these days. Paulian economics is gaining popularity on the right and candidates might be forced to pander to these fantasies in campaigns. It could cause problems with electability if Republicans are forced to adopt unrealistic economic policies.
| 664 |
boogberg Sun, Mar 28, 2010 10:34:08am |
Tennis? Two words:
1. John
2. McEnroe
Bwahahahaha!
| 665 |
pingjockey Sun, Mar 28, 2010 10:34:48am |
re: #660 HoosierHoops
Butler! I had no idea they're just down the road from where they play the Final 4.
| 666 |
tradewind Sun, Mar 28, 2010 10:35:21am |
re: #659 pingjockey
I wouldn't care, but she's smoking it in the Oval office as one of POTUS' closest advisors.
| 667 |
pingjockey Sun, Mar 28, 2010 10:36:02am |
re: #662 albusteve
I agree. The gov't is going to piss all that money away. It will not and has not done shit to stimulate the economy.
| 668 |
lawhawk Sun, Mar 28, 2010 10:36:19am |
Obama has made a surprise trip to Afghanistan, meeting with Karzai.
President Obama made a surprise visit today to Afghanistan, where he met with Afghan President Hamid Karzai and discussed "benchmarks" for political progress he expects to see as the U.S. escalates the war against Taliban and al Queda fighters.The unannounced visit in Kabul was intended to deliver Karzai the message that he must crack down on government corruption, clean up the court system and cut off the opium trade that is financing the insurgents, officials said.
| 670 |
tradewind Sun, Mar 28, 2010 10:36:46am |
I'm sorry for KY fans ( the school, not the stuff), but happy that karma caught up with Calipari.
When he left Memphis, he took our recruiting class with him! Bwahahaha!
| 671 |
Digital Display Sun, Mar 28, 2010 10:37:01am |
re: #665 pingjockey
Butler! I had no idea they're just down the road from where they play the Final 4.
Free concerts all next weekend..Everybody who is anybody is playing downtown for free...The Boys and I are watching the goo goo dolls sunday..We haven't decided on Sat music yet..
I live 15 minutes away..This joint is buzzing
| 673 |
brookly red Sun, Mar 28, 2010 10:37:36am |
re: #663 Killgore Trout
Agreed. I think there's a lot of room for reasonable debate. I'm a little worried about the Republicans these days. Paulian economics is gaining popularity on the right and candidates might be forced to pander to these fantasies in campaigns. It could cause problems with electability if Republicans are forced to adopt unrealistic economic policies.
true, but the bright side is now we get to choose between 2 unrealistic economic policies...
were screwed.
| 675 |
tradewind Sun, Mar 28, 2010 10:38:06am |
re: #660 HoosierHoops
A good Palm Sunday to all, and have a blessed Holy Week.
| 676 |
albusteve Sun, Mar 28, 2010 10:39:19am |
A handful of California's best vintners today admit to having used "suitcase cloning" to avoid yearslong waits in USDA quarantine for their vines.
As California clamps a quarantine across the heart of Napa Valley and farmers ready their pesticides, nobody is winking anymore. A new Napa reality is setting in_ that lax attitudes invite costly invasions of new pests that can threaten the country's most expensive and economically productive farmland.
vintners playing fast and loose with the rules...whoops!
[Link: news.yahoo.com...]
| 677 |
tradewind Sun, Mar 28, 2010 10:39:28am |
...And a blessed Passover as well.
Out 'til next week.
| 678 |
pingjockey Sun, Mar 28, 2010 10:41:06am |
re: #671 HoosierHoops
Once in a lifetime type deal. Have a ball. My parents went to the Final 4 when it was in Seattle in the Kingdome.
| 679 |
Digital Display Sun, Mar 28, 2010 10:41:44am |
The Little green football prayer list
Today in History
At 4 a.m. on March 28, 1979, the worst accident in the history of the U.S. nuclear power industry begins when a pressure valve in the Unit-2 reactor at Three Mile Island fails to close. Cooling water, contaminated with radiation, drained from the open valve into adjoining buildings, and the core began to dangerously overheat.
The Three Mile Island nuclear power plant was built in 1974 on a sandbar on Pennsylvania's Susquehanna River, just 10 miles downstream from the state capitol in Harrisburg. In 1978, a second state-of-the-art reactor began operating on Three Mile Island, which was lauded for generating affordable and reliable energy in a time of energy crises.
Good bless all the Lizards on Palm Sunday.. May the Lord bring Peace and joy to the hearts and souls of mankind today
We pray Lord for the people of Chile…Aftershocks are terrifying.. Our Prayers go out to them.
Again this week..
We pray Father for The Haitian people ... Comfort the survivors.
Guide our leaders to rebuild that Island with wisdom and vision..
FBV: Lord we pray for his mother while she deals with cancer…Bring Strength,
Grace and comfort to her and Veggies Family…
We thank you Lord for your kindness to Lazardo’s Family.. Look after them and bring them blessings..
Jadespring: Dear Lord bring healing to a Sister.. Bring grace and strength to the Family.
We pray for your tender mercies
Dear Lord..We ask you this day you bring healing and grace to SFZ’s Father and Mother-in-law..
Help her in the Job search and finding her Career. .
We know your love brings healing and life.
Ausador: Parents
Guanxi88: Best wishes and lizard mojo to my wife's best friend. her father committed suicide not two weeks after her mother succumbed to cancer.
Reine: Health and Family.. Lord we ask you grant Reine’s Daughter a Special blessing..Look after her and grant grace.
gregb - 4 year old son who suffered a head injury last Friday and spent the
weekend in the ICU with some lingering effects all week.
SteveC: Two friends, one needs heart surgery, and one might.
If you could add Sherman Nugent and his family to the prayer list, it would be greatly appreciated. He was a professor at my school since 1968, and a good friend to many. He only stopped teaching and conducting research a couple of semesters ago. Not sure if adding a link to obituaries is customary or not, but here it is: link-
Dark_Falcon Hoops, I have a late addition to the Prayer List: Last week my sister fell and seriously fractured her ankle. She has cerebral palsy, and though two surgeries have enabled her to walk normally, when she hurries she can still fall sometimes. This time she got hurt badly and your thoughts and prayers are appreciated.
My other friend got a surgical date in January. She quickly got tired of the waiting and asked the surgeon if she could reschedule earlier. Now she's set for Nov 16
Jadespring: Our prayers go out to your sister…May she be healed
Baseballmom57: My God grant grace and healing to her son…
lurking faith… prayers for an aunt
,
Beekiller: Sister has been diagnosed with Cancer…We pray for a speedy recovery
FBV: Add my friend Jeff. Recently diagnosed with ALS. His family will watch him fade and die over the next three to five years. Wife and two kids (kids are young adults).
Prairiefire: Health for Family and friends
Mcspiff: if you could add my uncle to the list. He went in for surgery today and it didn't go so well. Extra organs had to come out, etc. Still just hearing bits and pieces now. But any prayers would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you Lord
| 680 |
boogberg Sun, Mar 28, 2010 10:43:41am |
re: #674 lawhawk
Oh yeah! I wasn't in to tennis but I'd watch just to see him show his ass (figuratively speaking)!
| 681 |
Cato the Elder Sun, Mar 28, 2010 10:44:59am |
re: #57 Cato the Elder
Update to the saga of Bobby:
Officer Guy (real name) was as good as his word. He called at 4:52 this morning after Animal Control finally arrived (after six or seven hours) to take the abandoned dog off to his jail cell. He gave me the number of AC and the intake ID number for Bobby, so I can quickly identify him when I take action.
And this morning on Facebook a local friend knowledgeable in these matters told me that it's not 48 hours until execution, but three business days, after which Animal Control will try to place Bobby with one of the local no-kill adoption centers. If none of them have room, however, that's it for Bobby. I'm going to see if I can adopt him straight from Animal Control until I can find a permanent home for him.
He's a very friendly retriever mix of some kind, weighing approximately 50 lbs., a nice medium-sized dog, in other words.
Any Lizards who might want a pet, my nick is blue until further notice.
| 682 |
simoom Sun, Mar 28, 2010 10:51:07am |
re: #636 Aceofwhat?
Through their lobbying, the voices of the wealthiest ring loudest in the halls of Congress. Their financial interests are protected first, above those not so fortunate, and over time this his created de facto wealth redistribution in this country, though not in the downward direction that GOP decries. Long term it isn't healthy for our society to have income disparity reaching back toward where it was during the time of the Robber Barons.
| 683 |
jvic Sun, Mar 28, 2010 10:52:16am |
re: #37 Lidane
Orwell has a fantastic essay on the differences between patriotism and nationalism as well. It's here.
Thanks for the link. That is indeed a wonderful essay, and it contains the famous quote:
I have heard it confidently stated, for instance, that the American troops had been brought to Europe not to fight the Germans but to crush an English revolution. One has to belong to the intelligentsia to believe things like that: no ordinary man could be such a fool.
That essay is not just worth reading; it is worth pondering. If it were up to me, it would be required reading in high school civics.
| 684 |
Cato the Elder Sun, Mar 28, 2010 11:06:22am |
re: #275 RogueOne
Cato, maybe you may want to be excessively polite the next time you talk to one of Baltimore's Finest:
[Link: www.wbaltv.com...]
Even more outrageously than shooting a guy 4 times for chewing on a popsicle stick is they went ahead with the trial. The prosecutor tried to put this guy in jail for having the nerve to get shot while minding his own business.
A black friend of mine in his fifties, Baltimore born and bred, owns a really nice 1999 Jaguar sedan. While he was in the barbershop the other week, some idiot kid who had just rented a U-Haul truck backed it up into the Jag and destroyed the whole front end.
The responding officer looked my thoroughly respectable, middle-aged friend up and down, and asked, "Now, when I run your license and the registration on this car, are the names going to match?" Implication being, where did a black guy like you hanging out at a barbershop in West Baltimore get a nice vehicle like this? Stolen from Roland Park, I'll wager.
Asked for the sake of the gratuitous insult before just running the damn numbers and finding out for himself.
The cop was black, too. Black-on-black racism is something black people will tell their white friends volumes about if they know they can trust you.
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