More Southern States That Have ‘Confederate History Month’

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It should be pointed out that Confederate History Month is certainly not unique to Virginia and Gov. Bob McDonnell; other states that have similar proclamations include:

Alabama
Mississippi
Texas
Louisiana
Florida
Georgia

Georgia Republican Governor Sonny Perdue’s proclamation for 2009 is here (PDF), and like Bob McDonnell’s original proclamation it makes no mention of slavery, although it does contain copious praise for the Confederate Army.

Ugh.

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209 comments
1 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 4:22:16pm

I’d like to repost an excellent article cited by Reine last thread, about the difference between celebrating The South and The Confederacy:

[Link: www.lawattstimes.com…]

2 jamesfirecat  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 4:23:02pm

Wow, it’s like when you finally manage to hose off the filth there’s a layer of toxic waste underneath!

3 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 4:23:59pm

re: #2 jamesfirecat

And sadly it’s always been there.

4 palomino  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 4:24:31pm

So it’s basically the whole south. Except South Carolina, where every month is Confederate History Month.

5 Randall Gross  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 4:25:31pm

So it appears that the more modern ones tend to be more brazen… now why would that have changed the past two years… I’m stumped.

/not really

6 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 4:27:30pm

Behold the power of racism still left in America!

7 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 4:28:02pm

re: #4 palomino

So it’s basically the whole south. Except South Carolina, where every month is Confederate History Month.

Not North Carolina or Tennessee, but those states were always more moderate than the others. South Carolina has always clung to its Southern heritage, even the worst parts of it.

8 Cato the Elder  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 4:28:53pm

Well, you know, Charles, slavery was really just a side issue. It was more about the South being able to export slave-produced cotton without let or hindrance.

And something about Southern Womanhood.

9 albusteve  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 4:28:55pm

re: #4 palomino

So it’s basically the whole south. Except South Carolina, where every month is Confederate History Month.

it might be the last gasp of the Old South…which is increasingly harder to find these days with the huge influx of northerners down there…OTOH racism crosses geographic lines and the South May Rise Again!

10 druik  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 4:30:55pm

I’m from the south and will say that there is a need for people to recognize the sacrifices of their ancestors, regardless of the cause and that honorable and moral men can support less than moral causes.

11 palomino  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 4:32:11pm

re: #7 Dark_Falcon

Not North Carolina or Tennessee, but those states were always more moderate than the others. South Carolina has always clung to its Southern heritage, even the worst parts of it.

Growing up in Houston this was impossible for me to avoid (even though it’s worse in other southern locales). There’s still a small but really vocal and angry crowd that just won’t let the Civil War go.

12 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 4:33:51pm

Hat tip Walter.

13 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 4:34:57pm

re: #11 palomino

Growing up in Houston this was impossible for me to avoid (even though it’s worse in other southern locales). There’s still a small but really vocal and angry crowd that just won’t let the Civil War go.

I can understand why in some places. Many such people feel humiliated by their defeat, even one so long ago.

14 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 4:35:24pm

re: #10 druik

I’m from the south and will say that there is a need for people to recognize the sacrifices of their ancestors, regardless of the cause and that honorable and moral men can support less than moral causes.

In a fucking festive and celebratory way? So, the Germans need to have proclamations for a Extermination History Month, with planned events and re-enactments and pancake breakfasts?

Are you kidding?

15 erraticsphinx  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 4:35:50pm

re: #10 druik

It wasn’t a “less than moral” cause. It was much worse.

They were racist traitors who fought to keep other human beings as chattel. Period.

The declarations in these states aren’t “honoring sacrifice” as much as they are nostalgic for the past.

16 albusteve  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 4:36:00pm

re: #13 Dark_Falcon

I can understand why in some places. Many such people feel humiliated by their defeat, even one so long ago.

an entire culture was laid waste

17 allegro  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 4:36:16pm

re: #10 druik

I

‘m from the south and will say that there is a need for people to recognize the sacrifices of their ancestors, regardless of the cause and that honorable and moral men can support less than moral causes.

Sorry. Supporting an immoral cause by definition negates personal moral righteousness.

18 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 4:37:45pm

re: #10 druik

I’m from the south and will say that there is a need for people to recognize the sacrifices of their ancestors, regardless of the cause and that honorable and moral men can support less than moral causes.

If by “less than moral” you mean pure evil!

There’s a difference between being aware of your ancestry and studying the time, and CELEBRATING EVIL.

If you don’t understand that, then I’m sorry. have fun and enjoy your southern tribalism.

19 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 4:38:09pm

re: #8 Cato the Elder

Um, the URL for that first picture makes me not want to click it.

20 Skeetghazi  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 4:38:19pm

re: #10 druik

I’m from the south and will say that there is a need for people to recognize the sacrifices of their ancestors, regardless of the cause and that honorable and moral men can support less than moral causes.

Someone earlier compared this to the French having a day of honor for the Vichy regime during WWII. How do you differentiate?

21 Four More Tears  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 4:38:19pm

re: #18 WindUpBird

Dude…

Your avatar is freakin’ me the f&*k out.

22 Summer Seale  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 4:38:39pm

This is slightly off topic but still relevant.

Today’s NPR Fresh Air was with a guest named Frank Meeink. He used to be a famous skinhead a few decades ago and completely turned around. He now runs a group for kids to teach them racial and religious harmony and works with the ADL.

Really fascinating story you can listen to here: [Link: www.npr.org…]

I hunted down his web site and he has a (little updated) blog as well (he also wrote a book). But his latest entry from March 25th is the following:

“Thursday, March 25, 2010
So this Tea Party is really starting to make me think that this is the Brown shirts of Nazi Germany ! Anybody else feel the same??”

Interesting perspective from a guy who should know. He talks in the interview about how the skinheads revere the brownshirts and model themselves after them. Well, it’s really interesting that this was his latest entry and I think that if anyone should know, it would be him.

I think that some Tea Partiers should take serious note of that observation from someone who used to be a national figure of that particular movement in its modern form.

23 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 4:39:07pm

re: #13 Dark_Falcon

I can understand why in some places. Many such people feel humiliated by their defeat, even one so long ago.

I just don’t get it at all, I think it’s ginned up us-versus-them crap, being stoked by politicians.

24 Summer Seale  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 4:39:16pm

Oh and this is his blog where you can see that entry at the top:

[Link: autobiographyofarecoveringskinhead.blogspot.com…]

25 Randall Gross  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 4:39:49pm

re: #10 druik

Unless you are Chinese you probably aren’t an ancestor worshipper, so I really don’t see that need.

26 Dancing along the light of day  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 4:39:52pm

re: #19 Obdicut

Um, the URL for that first picture makes me not want to click it.

Should have been labeled NSFW.

27 darthstar  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 4:40:11pm

Hey…time to take off, but check this out…something a little bit more positive from a ‘recovering skinhead’…

28 Ojoe  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 4:40:26pm

Union dead at Gettysburg.

… gave their lives to end slavery.

If the Union had not been saved we would not have been there to help stop Hitler, only 80 years later.

29 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 4:40:32pm

re: #21 JasonA

Dude…

Your avatar is freakin’ me the f&*k out.

You should see the costume in person! The eyes GLOW *_* I was snagged by a bunch of off duty detectives and their wives hanging out at the bar at a convention I was at (they weren’t fandom people, they just always hung out at that hotel bar) and I posed for about three dozen pictures with them. It was genius :D

30 darthstar  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 4:40:53pm

re: #22 Summer

GMTA…just linked it myself…didn’t see your post. Good stuff.

31 Summer Seale  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 4:41:29pm

re: #30 darthstar

Yea just saw yours. =) But yes, check out that latest entry in his blog. I think it’s extremely telling.

Again, this is a guy who should definitely know.

32 albusteve  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 4:42:34pm

from a historical perspective, it should be easy enough to understand the racist and bigoted attitude of southerners back then and the crushing dismemberment of their society and economy…too bad…as for these days there is no excuse to glorify slavery and secession, regardless of sacrifice…the south was simply on the wrong side of rightousness

33 William Barnett-Lewis  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 4:42:38pm

re: #10 druik

I also have had people try to tell me the Waffen-SS wasn’t “that bad” either. They still should have hung every single one of them.

William

34 HoosierHoops  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 4:42:52pm

re: #10 druik

I’m from the south and will say that there is a need for people to recognize the sacrifices of their ancestors, regardless of the cause and that honorable and moral men can support less than moral causes.

Yea? Then why not Nazi day in Germany? How about pol pot month in Cambodia? You mention the word morality twice in your post..
Don’t ever do that again…
Nobody is buying the Bullshit here

35 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 4:42:57pm

re: #16 albusteve

an entire culture was laid waste

True, but what of it? Should Grant and Sherman have kept watching their men die while letting the southerns who supplied the Confederate Army with food, weapons and uniforms continue to do so? The south would not submit to gentle methods and so more brutal ones had to be applied.

36 albusteve  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 4:43:28pm

re: #23 WindUpBird

I just don’t get it at all, I think it’s ginned up us-versus-them crap, being stoked by politicians.

open your mind

37 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 4:43:41pm

re: #34 HoosierHoops

Yea? Then why not Nazi day in Germany? How about pol pot month in Cambodia? You mention the word morality twice in your post..
Don’t ever do that again…
Nobody is buying the Bullshit here

I like the idea of capitalizing The Bullshit :D To refer to specifically this sort of confederate/racist apology line.

38 Ojoe  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 4:44:04pm

re: #35 Dark_Falcon

In the big picture Sherman was a humanitarian.

39 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 4:44:30pm
More Southern States That Have ‘Confederate History Month’

I guess nobody told them that They. Freaking. Lost.

40 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 4:45:02pm

re: #36 albusteve

open your mind

It probably hurts that I’ve never lived in the south!

41 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 4:46:25pm

re: #16 albusteve

an entire culture was laid waste

was it truly laid waste? The entire culture? I don’t see southern culture disappearing, it seems to be alive and well.

42 Randall Gross  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 4:47:10pm

Think of it this way: why the fuck is it ok to celebrate the sunsabitches who created and propagated segregation in this country for so long even after Slavery was ended by the Civil War?

Why would we celebrate the fucktards who got more Americans killed in a war than any before or after?

Why would we celebrate anyone with such fascination and regard for Eurofascists?

43 albusteve  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 4:47:14pm

re: #35 Dark_Falcon

True, but what of it? Should Grant and Sherman have kept watching their men die while letting the southerns who supplied the Confederate Army with food, weapons and uniforms continue to do so? The south would not submit to gentle methods and so more brutal ones had to be applied.

I’m just observing history…but I will say, again, what happened in SC was indefensible…but then again I’ve always felt that the Philippines should have been bypassed back then

44 albusteve  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 4:48:12pm

re: #40 WindUpBird

It probably hurts that I’ve never lived in the south!

it’s a wonderful part of the country, chock full of good decent people imo

45 Merkin  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 4:48:34pm

Let’s see if I have this straight. We are talking about celebrating the Civil War. When the majority of the people in the South committed treason to preserve slavery. Only to have the first Republican President in history use the full weight and force of the United States’ Government to prevent it.

Can someone tell me what in that they find to celebrate

Can we expect them to declare May Reconstruction History Month?

46 What, me worry?  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 4:48:41pm

re: #34 HoosierHoops

Yea? Then why not Nazi day in Germany? How about pol pot month in Cambodia? You mention the word morality twice in your post..
Don’t ever do that again…
Nobody is buying the Bullshit here

And of course, there will never be a Nazi Day because it’s against the law in Germany and I think 12 other countries. They lost their countries over racism.

I had no idea Florida had a Confederacy Month! Holy cow. I’m writing my Congressman!

47 bosforus  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 4:49:36pm

re: #1 Obdicut

I’d like to repost an excellent article cited by Reine last thread, about the difference between celebrating The South and The Confederacy:

[Link: www.lawattstimes.com…]

Paula Deen = the south
[choose your own term] = the confederacy

48 Old Dragon  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 4:49:49pm

No Confederate Army EVER had more heart than the Army of the Potomac.
Frequently poorly led, beset by politicians, surviving 1862, it never lost its ability to bounce back and “try conclusions” with “the Marble Man” (Lee).

Any army of volunteers than can endure a Chancellorsville, an Antietam, a Gettysburg, and then later began to cheer as it turned SOUTH under Grant after the Wilderness to continue after Lee is proof enough for ALL Americans that we are capable of magnificent courage and sacrifice.

Recommend Mac Pherson’s “Battle Cry of Freedom” and all of Bruce Catton.

Old Dragon:

49 druik  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 4:50:24pm

re: #20 Stanley Sea

Someone earlier compared this to the French having a day of honor for the Vichy regime during WWII. How do you differentiate?

People need to remember not to take history out of context. Regarding the Vichy government, it was formed after France had a national identity. What the United States was like before the civil war was more like a French duke deciding to fight for the English monarch during the Hundred Years war because the concept of a national French identity hadn’t emerged yet. Because this war was fought in a cultural political context (in the United States) that was pre-nationalistic, people had more allegiance to their state than to the Union. See the letter Robert Lee wrote when he resigned from the US army.

As to the people who are using 3rd grade rhetoric regarding the evilness of the cause….how many years did the United States tolerate slavery again?

Are you going to hold every American citizen that lived before the civil war that wasn’t John Brown or some other abolitionist that was willing to risk life and property for freeing slaves as someone who was accessory to evil?

What about the signers of the Constitution who voted to say that slaves were 3/5s of a person? You can talk of compromise all you want but that is still not only tolerating evil but enabling it because it implicitly sets a judicial precedent for the allowance of slavery.

50 JHW  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 4:51:13pm

Ancestors

Talking about direct ancestors becomes virtually meaningless after a few generations. Remember the story about a grain of rice on a checkerboard , doubling it next square, doubling again next square, etc? Geometric progression?
In 10 generations we have 1,022 direct ancestors. Could be all kinds of surprises in there.
How many ancestors do you have?

51 wrenchwench  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 4:51:14pm

re: #10 druik

I’m from the south and will say that there is a need for people to recognize the sacrifices of their ancestors, regardless of the cause and that honorable and moral men can support less than moral causes.

You might have been better off replaying this blast from the past:

84 druik 5/08/2008 7:22:00 pm PDT

why bring this up when it is just going to divide this rather close knit community and not even come close to changing anyone’s mind.

52 The Shadow Do  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 4:51:29pm

re: #7 Dark_Falcon

Not North Carolina or Tennessee, but those states were always more moderate than the others. South Carolina has always clung to its Southern heritage, even the worst parts of it.

You’d a thunk them gamecocks woulda been learned up by Sherman. He felt bad for the destruction of Atlanta. He enjoyed rippin up the belly of the beast as he marched his army through S Carolina though.

53 albusteve  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 4:51:32pm

re: #41 WindUpBird

was it truly laid waste? The entire culture? I don’t see southern culture disappearing, it seems to be alive and well.

what you see are last nuances of the old south…the entire economy for the middle and upper class revolved around slavery…slaves were everything…they were the primary resource for the entire region…slaves generated all the wealth allowing the rise of southern aristocracy…all that blown away must have been epic

54 Four More Tears  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 4:51:54pm

I’ve always wondered… why is King Arthur so revered by the British? I mean, he fought against their Anglo-Saxon ancestors, didn’t he? I don’t understand people sometimes.

55 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 4:52:10pm

re: #43 albusteve

I’m just observing history…but I will say, again, what happened in SC was indefensible…but then again I’ve always felt that the Philippines should have been bypassed back then

What happened to SC was collective punishment. South Carolina was the soul of secession, and it was pillaged to punish is people for having put into office the vile crop of leaders who had played such a large role in starting the war. In the long run, it did not work. The North was unwilling to keep troops in SC long enough to change the racist, revanchist culture there.

56 Cato the Elder  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 4:52:49pm

re: #19 Obdicut

Um, the URL for that first picture makes me not want to click it.

You might want to after all. It’s kinda cute.

57 allegro  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 4:53:01pm

re: #49 druik

As to the people who are using 3rd grade rhetoric regarding the evilness of the cause…how many years did the United States tolerate slavery again?

The difference is that we’re recognizing it for the evil that is was. We’re not freaking celebrating it.

58 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 4:53:57pm

Speaking of proudly ignorant, racist, anti-science, bigoted losers, OT but I feel honored, I just found out that the village of the banned has dedicated a thread to me!

They are comparing AGW to Muslim science - which is tricky for them since the sorts of fellows they are quoting are creationists just like they are, but hey people like the village of the banned never did let obvious contradictions get in their way before.

Ahh I do not enjoy living in their minds. The confines are very narrow!

However, I would love to give a special shout out to Snork.

Yes snork, you are my favorite banned idiot. I know you feel left out. I mean, you are not the genocidal, delusional drunk that the rodent is, or the tragically mentally imbalanced TFK. You do not even rate Iron Fist’s attempts to justify his sexual inferiority complex by overcompensating with gun talk. I normally mock them afterall - well those and the legions of vinegary breasted- even back-breasted semi-apes whose fat cheeto covered hands twitch over their keyboards. I mean admit it guys, you have back tits don’t ya?

So ok, I shall mock you now or, on second thought, I won’t. You simply aren’t as repugnant as the others. You are just ignorant.

59 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 4:54:17pm

re: #39 Alouette

I guess nobody told them that They. Freaking. Lost.

Grant was pretty clear on the matter.

60 Skeetghazi  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 4:54:26pm

re: #49 druik

It’s an ugly history. We own it. We shouldn’t have proclamations providing a month of celebration of it. Simple.

61 Randall Gross  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 4:56:03pm

re: #49 druik

What a lot of revisionist bullshit dressed as feeble flaming strawmen. This is about the Confederacy, not the South or Southerners. The Confederacy was the closest that the US ever came to getting fascism as a form of gov’t and the people who led that secession and the drive to retain slavery are not worth celebrating.

Nathan Bedford Forest’s ghost can suck my ass.

62 albusteve  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 4:56:10pm

re: #58 LudwigVanQuixote

Speaking of proudly ignorant, racist, anti-science, bigoted losers, OT but I feel honored, I just found out that the village of the banned has dedicated a thread to me!

They are comparing AGW to Muslim science - which is tricky for them since the sorts of fellows they are quoting are creationists just like they are, but hey people like the village of the banned never did let obvious contradictions get in their way before.

Ahh I do not enjoy living in their minds. The confines are very narrow!

However, I would love to give a special shout out to Snork.

Yes snork, you are my favorite banned idiot. I know you feel left out. I mean, you are not the genocidal, delusional drunk that the rodent is, or the tragically mentally imbalanced TFK. You do not even rate Iron Fist’s attempts to justify his sexual inferiority complex by overcompensating with gun talk. I normally mock them afterall - well those and the legions of vinegary breasted- even back-breasted semi-apes whose fat cheeto covered hands twitch over their keyboards. I mean admit it guys, you have back tits don’t ya?

So ok, I shall mock you now or, on second thought, I won’t. You simply aren’t as repugnant as the others. You are just ignorant.

well, you’re even more special than I thought…enjoy your newest celebrity and keep us posted…that’s huge

63 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 4:56:53pm

re: #62 albusteve

well, you’re even more special than I thought…enjoy your newest celebrity and keep us posted…that’s huge

I know! I am deeply honored!

64 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 4:57:24pm

re: #52 The Shadow Do

You’d a thunk them gamecocks woulda been learned up by Sherman. He felt bad for the destruction of Atlanta. He enjoyed rippin up the belly of the beast as he marched his army through S Carolina though.

Just so. The ravaging of South Carolina driven by the follow logic: “You started this war and put us through all this misery. You got our comrades killed. Now we will ruin you! We will hammer your as hard as we can to ensure that no one ever tries what you have done again!”

65 Four More Tears  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 4:59:10pm

re: #39 Alouette

I guess nobody told them that They. Freaking. Lost.

Wait… they lost??

Virginia history undeniably includes the fact that we were the Capitol of the Confederacy, the site of more battlefields than any other state, and the home of the signing of the peace agreement at Appomattox.

Well that’s odd. The statement from McDonnell’s office didn’t make it seem like a surrender or anything…

66 The Shadow Do  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 4:59:19pm

re: #64 Dark_Falcon

Just so. The ravaging of South Carolina driven by the follow logic: “You started this war and put us through all this misery. You got our comrades killed. Now we will ruin you! We will hammer your as hard as we can to ensure that no one ever tries what you have done again!”

It worked too. In spite of contemporary evidence to the contrary.

67 justaminute  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 5:00:06pm

I think that being in the minority in the future is freaking out our white southern citizens. Maybe that’s the reason Bohner wants to limit birth control. He may want us increasing white birthrates so the South can rise again.

68 Dancing along the light of day  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 5:00:58pm

re: #49 druik

We’re not taking “history out of context”. We’re condemning celebrating an evil practise.

69 HoosierHoops  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 5:01:02pm

re: #46 marjoriemoon

And of course, there will never be a Nazi Day because it’s against the law in Germany and I think 12 other countries. They lost their countries over racism.

I had no idea Florida had a Confederacy Month! Holy cow. I’m writing my Congressman!

WOW! In Florida? I had posted last year about Racial issues in Indiana…
You know I must has this saved to my Favs last year..I joined a club to play golf here and one Sunday It was just me hanging with a bunch of old white guys in the clubroom..( free food Sunday)
The words that were spoken that day was so fucking ugly I walked out of free food and cheap beer and spilled my guts here. It’s not worth revisiting.. But I swear on my life there are deep underlining racial KKK issues in Indiana….It is true..I’ve hung out with those bastards getting ready to play Golf.. It is disturbing…I’ve got some stories to tell…

70 Cato the Elder  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 5:01:06pm

re: #49 druik

As to the people who are using 3rd grade rhetoric regarding the evilness of the cause…how many years did the United States tolerate slavery again?

Speaking of childish rhetoric…

How may years did we tolerate corporate dumping of toxic waste into our ground water?

How many years did we send out government troops to suppress unions for demanding living wages and safe working conditions?

How many years was it before we condemned slavery and shed big-time blood to put an end to it?

How many goddamn years before we decided you couldn’t burn an old woman to death for having a wart on her nose?

How many fucking years before people like you accept that there is actually such a thing as progress in human relations?

I’m betting you’ll

71 Skeetghazi  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 5:02:00pm

re: #65 JasonA

Well that’s odd. The statement from McDonnell’s office didn’t make it seem like a surrender or anything…

Good catch. Peace Agreement? It was a surrender, as we all know. Holy cow.

72 Randall Gross  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 5:02:20pm

re: #70 Cato the Elder

I’m wishing that wasn’t chopped off…

73 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 5:02:35pm

re: #65 JasonA

Well that’s odd. The statement from McDonnell’s office didn’t make it seem like a surrender or anything…

so many dogwhistles!

74 Cato the Elder  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 5:03:51pm

re: #70 Cato the Elder

ΠΙΜΦ: somehow, my last sentence got truncated.

“I’m betting you’ll be dead and buried first.”

75 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 5:04:04pm

re: #65 JasonA

Lee surrendered. Once again McDonnell is trying to revise history. I get it now, when the republicans accuse anyone of revising history they are, once again, just projecting.

76 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 5:04:22pm

re: #66 The Shadow Do

It worked too. In spite of contemporary evidence to the contrary.

True, but the hate it engendered has yet to subside. But it was the only way to force SC to heel.

77 Four More Tears  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 5:04:52pm

re: #71 Stanley Sea

Good catch. Peace Agreement? It was a surrender, as we all know. Holy cow.

Well, a surrender would imply that they were beaten. No, it’s better to think that they came to the mutual decision to end the war.

Jeez Louise…

78 Uninformed Opinion  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 5:04:56pm

re: #75 Dreggas

Lee surrendered. Once again McDonnell is trying to revise history. I get it now, when the republicans accuse anyone of revising history they are, once again, just projecting.

its like the activist judge thing…

79 SilentAlfa  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 5:05:29pm

re: #LVIII LudwigVanQuixote


They are comparing AGW to Muslim science - which is tricky for them since the sorts of fellows they are quoting are creationists just like they are, but hey people like the village of the banned never did let obvious contradictions get in their way before.

??
i dont believe in muslim science. algebra and arabic numerals are for liberal elites

80 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 5:05:36pm

re: #49 druik

You don’t CELEBRATEthe confedaracy, period. That’s what we’re talking about. the CELEBRATION.

Because the confederacy means the defense of institutional slavery. period.

If that’s childish, then call me a child! You’re apologizing and evading, you’re all kinds of slimy.

81 The Shadow Do  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 5:07:14pm

re: #69 HoosierHoops

WOW! In Florida? I had posted last year about Racial issues in Indiana…
You know I must has this saved to my Favs last year..I joined a club to play golf here and one Sunday It was just me hanging with a bunch of old white guys in the clubroom..( free food Sunday)
The words that were spoken that day was so fucking ugly I walked out of free food and cheap beer and spilled my guts here. It’s not worth revisiting.. But I swear on my life there are deep underlining racial KKK issues in Indiana…It is true..I’ve hung out with those bastards getting ready to play Golf.. It is disturbing…I’ve got some stories to tell…

There is no escaping it Hoops. I have lived all over the country and some of the worst I heard was in Colorado of all places.

I moved to TX 10 years ago. I have heard the N word once in my presence and that from an old white guy much like the ones you just described. Most folks here, at least those under 50, are really ashamed of much of their past. This is something northerners have never had to experience. I think it is worse there.

82 Decatur Deb  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 5:07:32pm

re: #71 Stanley Sea

Good catch. Peace Agreement? It was a surrender, as we all know. Holy cow.

As in U.S. (Unconditional Surrender) Grant.

83 austin_blue  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 5:07:49pm

OT, but you are going to *love* this one:

ExxonMobil paid no federal income tax in 2009. (Updated)

Last week, Forbes magazine published what the top U.S. corporations paid in taxes last year. “Most egregious,” Forbes notes, is General Electric, which “generated $10.3 billion in pretax income, but ended up owing nothing to Uncle Sam. In fact, it recorded a tax benefit of $1.1 billion.” Big Oil giant Exxon Mobil, which last year reported a record $45.2 billion profit, paid the most taxes of any corporation, but none of it went to the IRS:

Exxon tries to limit the tax pain with the help of 20 wholly owned subsidiaries domiciled in the Bahamas, Bermuda and the Cayman Islands that (legally) shelter the cash flow from operations in the likes of Angola, Azerbaijan and Abu Dhabi. No wonder that of $15 billion in income taxes last year, Exxon paid none of it to Uncle Sam, and has tens of billions in earnings permanently reinvested overseas.

Mother Jones’ Adam Weinstein notes that, despite benefiting from corporate welfare in the U.S., Exxon complains about paying high taxes, claiming that it threatens energy innovation research. Pat Garofalo at the Wonk Room notes that big corporations’ tax shelter practices similar to Exxon’s shift a $100 billion annual tax burden onto U.S. taxpayers. In fact, in 2008, the Government Accountability Office found that “two out of every three United States corporations paid no federal income taxes from 1998 through 2005.”

UPDATE Forbes has updated its article to include a statement from Exxon: “Though Exxon’s financial statement’s don’t show any net income tax liability owed to Uncle Sam, a company spokesman insists that once its final tax bill is figured, Exxon will owe a ‘substantial 2009 tax liability.’ How substantial? ‘That’s not something we’re required to disclose, nor do we.’”

Linkie:

[Link: thinkprogress.org…]

So! $100 billion a year! That’s what covering the uninsured and underinsured costs in this country every year in the reform plan! What a deal for corporations who have the same rights as “citizens”, per the supreme court. Shouldn’t they have the same responsibilities, then, to pay their fair share to the IRS, just like you and I?

84 What, me worry?  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 5:08:07pm

re: #69 HoosierHoops

WOW! In Florida? I had posted last year about Racial issues in Indiana…
You know I must has this saved to my Favs last year..I joined a club to play golf here and one Sunday It was just me hanging with a bunch of old white guys in the clubroom..( free food Sunday)
The words that were spoken that day was so fucking ugly I walked out of free food and cheap beer and spilled my guts here. It’s not worth revisiting.. But I swear on my life there are deep underlining racial KKK issues in Indiana…It is true..I’ve hung out with those bastards getting ready to play Golf.. It is disturbing…I’ve got some stories to tell…

Suffice to say, I think one can find racism everywhere. I’ve never seen any place completely free of it. People are assholes.

But then again, not every state wants to celebrate “Angry White Racist Guy Month”.

And btw, I know some nice folks who are trailer trash :)

85 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 5:08:27pm

re: #50 JHW

Ancestors

Talking about direct ancestors becomes virtually meaningless after a few generations. Remember the story about a grain of rice on a checkerboard , doubling it next square, doubling again next square, etc? Geometric progression?
In 10 generations we have 1,022 direct ancestors. Could be all kinds of surprises in there.
How many ancestors do you have?

That is assuming all of your ancestors were different individuals and there are no duplicates. Ain’t no gene pool that big!

86 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 5:08:38pm

re: #81 The Shadow Do

Northern states don’t have any months when they celebrate a group of people that fought to preserve slavery, though.

So I’d say Northern states are ahead on that score.

87 Cato the Elder  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 5:08:44pm

Bugger all the people who try to salvage something noble out of the Confederacy. May their lily-white daughters all marry Othello, and may the resulting beautiful, smart, resilient, and resourceful grandchildren put them all to shame forever and a thousand days!

88 erraticsphinx  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 5:08:45pm

re: #83 austin_blue

But, but, what about the poor people who pay no taxes , huh?

THEY are the real problem.

/

89 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 5:09:00pm

re: #83 austin_blue

OT, but you are going to *love* this one:

ExxonMobil paid no federal income tax in 2009. (Updated)

Last week, Forbes magazine published what the top U.S. corporations paid in taxes last year. “Most egregious,” Forbes notes, is General Electric, which “generated $10.3 billion in pretax income, but ended up owing nothing to Uncle Sam. In fact, it recorded a tax benefit of $1.1 billion.” Big Oil giant Exxon Mobil, which last year reported a record $45.2 billion profit, paid the most taxes of any corporation, but none of it went to the IRS:

Exxon tries to limit the tax pain with the help of 20 wholly owned subsidiaries domiciled in the Bahamas, Bermuda and the Cayman Islands that (legally) shelter the cash flow from operations in the likes of Angola, Azerbaijan and Abu Dhabi. No wonder that of $15 billion in income taxes last year, Exxon paid none of it to Uncle Sam, and has tens of billions in earnings permanently reinvested overseas.

Mother Jones’ Adam Weinstein notes that, despite benefiting from corporate welfare in the U.S., Exxon complains about paying high taxes, claiming that it threatens energy innovation research. Pat Garofalo at the Wonk Room notes that big corporations’ tax shelter practices similar to Exxon’s shift a $100 billion annual tax burden onto U.S. taxpayers. In fact, in 2008, the Government Accountability Office found that “two out of every three United States corporations paid no federal income taxes from 1998 through 2005.”

UPDATE Forbes has updated its article to include a statement from Exxon: “Though Exxon’s financial statement’s don’t show any net income tax liability owed to Uncle Sam, a company spokesman insists that once its final tax bill is figured, Exxon will owe a ‘substantial 2009 tax liability.’ How substantial? ‘That’s not something we’re required to disclose, nor do we.’”

Linkie:

[Link: thinkprogress.org…]

So! $100 billion a year! That’s what covering the uninsured and underinsured costs in this country every year in the reform plan! What a deal for corporations who have the same rights as “citizens”, per the supreme court. Shouldn’t they have the same responsibilities, then, to pay their fair share to the IRS, just like you and I?

A good example of corporate evil.

yeah, I said that, Mandy. I WENT THERE

90 albusteve  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 5:09:23pm

re: #76 Dark_Falcon

True, but the hate it engendered has yet to subside. But it was the only way to force SC to heel.

that’s pure speculation….Lee had not surrendered so we’ll never know will we?…
I think you are politicizing an event that had little moral justification

91 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 5:10:29pm
n fact, in 2008, the Government Accountability Office found that “two out of every three United States corporations paid no federal income taxes from 1998 through 2005.”

Fucking unreal.

92 Uninformed Opinion  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 5:10:50pm

re: #81 The Shadow Do

There is no escaping it Hoops. I have lived all over the country and some of the worst I heard was in Colorado of all places.

Colorado was controlled by the KKK


And in some places it still shows.

93 avanti  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 5:11:11pm

Tea Partiers to police tax day rally to search out liberal infiltrators/


libs.

94 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 5:11:22pm

re: #92 Uninformed Opinion

Colorado was controlled by the KKK

And in some places it still shows.

*cough* Colorado Springs *cough*

95 The Shadow Do  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 5:11:27pm

re: #15 Obdicut

Northern states don’t have any months when they celebrate a group of people that fought to preserve slavery, though.

So I’d say Northern states are ahead on that score.

These confederacy celebrations are awful. I think some of it is a weak attempt to salvage some dignity from the undignifiable. Guilt.
The north has never had to feel it. In some way it is more insidious though. The racism just lays there in the weeds.

96 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 5:11:27pm

re: #87 Cato the Elder

Bugger all the people who try to salvage something noble out of the Confederacy. May their lily-white daughters all marry Othello, and may the resulting beautiful, smart, resilient, and resourceful grandchildren put them all to shame forever and a thousand days!

Othello killed Desdemona in a fit of jealous rage. There were no beautiful biracial grandchildren for Brabanzio.

97 Cato the Elder  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 5:11:45pm

re: #92 Uninformed Opinion

Colorado was controlled by the KKK

And in some places it still shows.

Ask Walter about that. He’s seen it up close.

98 albusteve  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 5:11:59pm

re: #83 austin_blue

do you suppose the democrats know this?…hmmm

99 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 5:12:10pm

re: #95 The Shadow Do

Like how, for example? How is it more insidious in the North?

Can you point to an actual example of racism being worth in the Northern states?

100 [deleted]  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 5:12:26pm
101 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 5:12:47pm

re: #98 albusteve

do you suppose the democrats know this?…hmmm

Considering democrats have been trying to close corporate tax loopholes, yes!

102 austin_blue  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 5:13:00pm

On topic:

Youtube Video
103 JHW  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 5:13:09pm

re: #85 Alouette

Yeah, I know. I was trying to be somewhat tongue in cheek about people always going on about their ancestors. Most people can’t get much past naming their great-grandparents, if that. And given the numbers involved, they might have a few in their family trees they wouldn’t want to admit to. Tie in to these proclamations about “ancestry” and “heritage”.

104 researchok  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 5:13:16pm

OT, here is Rita Macneil’s tribute to coal miners.

Youtube Video
105 reine.de.tout  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 5:13:55pm

re: #10 druik

I’m from the south and will say that there is a need for people to recognize the sacrifices of their ancestors, regardless of the cause and that honorable and moral men can support less than moral causes.

Um, no.
Moral people can not support less than moral causes.
No way.

There is a vast difference between celebrating the honest history of the south and celebrating “southern-ness”, and celebration of the Confederacy and its goals. Huge difference.

106 albusteve  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 5:13:56pm

re: #101 WindUpBird

Considering democrats have been trying to close corporate tax loopholes, yes!

try harder you donksters

107 Uninformed Opinion  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 5:15:20pm

re: #94 WindUpBird

*cough* Colorado Springs *cough*

another link

The western slope. In general, the closer to Utah you get…

I still dont want to live anywhere else.

108 Cato the Elder  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 5:15:56pm

re: #96 Alouette

I’m talking about a rewrite.

109 alexknyc  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 5:16:19pm

There are plenty of events to celebrate in the history of the American South. The Confederacy isn’t one of them.

What’s the matter with these people?

110 justaminute  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 5:16:20pm

re: #93 avanti

They probably don’t want any pics of their signs and videos of the partiers talking. They seem to prefere no evidence of what they say unless its filtered by Fox.

111 Four More Tears  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 5:16:29pm

re: #106 albusteve

try harder you donksters

o_O And what’s your advice to the pachyderms?

112 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 5:17:08pm

re: #110 justaminute

They probably don’t want any pics of their signs and videos of the partiers talking. They seem to prefere no evidence of what they say unless its filtered by Fox.

I’m curious how exactly they’re planning on policing stuff :D

113 albusteve  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 5:17:16pm

re: #111 JasonA

o_O And what’s your advice to the pachyderms?

retire

114 reine.de.tout  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 5:17:17pm

re: #1 Obdicut

I’d like to repost an excellent article cited by Reine last thread, about the difference between celebrating The South and The Confederacy:

[Link: www.lawattstimes.com…]

I gotta laugh.
I find the article, and you’re the one who gets the updings.
LOL.
Honestly - glad you got ‘em.

115 ryannon  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 5:17:34pm

re: #50 JHW

Ancestors

Talking about direct ancestors becomes virtually meaningless after a few generations. Remember the story about a grain of rice on a checkerboard , doubling it next square, doubling again next square, etc? Geometric progression?
In 10 generations we have 1,022 direct ancestors. Could be all kinds of surprises in there.
How many ancestors do you have?

So basically, we’re all cousins?

116 wrenchwench  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 5:18:09pm

re: #100 LudwigVanQuixote

Woah, I just had a brainwave.

Certainly not your best. Possibly your worst. IMHO.

117 Uninformed Opinion  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 5:18:14pm

re: #97 Cato the Elder

Ask Walter about that. He’s seen it up close.

I can only imagine, I havent been here that long, but the last election…

118 albusteve  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 5:18:47pm

shouldn’t someone post some Lynard Skynard about now?

119 JHW  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 5:19:36pm

re: #115 ryannon

Heh, yes, x times removed.

120 The Shadow Do  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 5:19:43pm

re: #28 Obdicut

Like how, for example? How is it more insidious in the North?

Can you point to an actual example of racism being worth in the Northern states?

No, not beyond the anecdotal. I lived for many years in both Indiana and Colorado. The incidents do not bear repeating. I have been for the last 10 in Texas and I have one really disgusting anecdote. So, yes this is just my opinion. One formed from meeting thousands of people by the way. I am in sales. Take it for what it is worth. Not much, I will admit. Just my take.

121 Randall Gross  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 5:19:51pm

re: #118 albusteve

shouldn’t someone post some Lynard Skynard about now?

Youtube Video
122 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 5:20:10pm

re: #92 Uninformed Opinion

Colorado was controlled by the KKK

And in some places it still shows.

And what do you know about Colorado?

123 Four More Tears  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 5:20:44pm

re: #118 albusteve

shouldn’t someone post some Lynard Skynard about now?

All I can think of right now is:

And this bird you cannot change.
124 albusteve  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 5:20:46pm

re: #117 Uninformed Opinion

I can only imagine, I havent been here that long, but the last election…

I lived in Denver from 76-81…fairly racist from my point of view…and snobby beyond belief…but I simply loved Denver in spite of it, just don’t be black in CO

125 Uninformed Opinion  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 5:21:16pm

re: #122 Walter L. Newton

And what do you know about Colorado?

Not as much as you. Hooded Empire is on the list, any suggestions?

126 justaminute  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 5:21:21pm

re: #112 WindUpBird

I don’t know. Our signs are spelled correctly, maybe.

127 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 5:21:26pm

re: #92 Uninformed Opinion

Colorado was controlled by the KKK

And in some places it still shows.

Where in that article does it say “Colorado was controlled by the KKK”

128 albusteve  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 5:21:52pm

re: #121 Thanos

[Video]

you’re a good man

129 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 5:22:20pm

re: #125 Uninformed Opinion

Not as much as you. Hooded Empire is on the list, any suggestions?

Where in that article does it say “Colorado was controlled by the KKK”

130 allegro  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 5:22:21pm

re: #127 Walter L. Newton

see the link at #107

131 Skeetghazi  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 5:22:23pm

From the National Parks Service - The Appomattox Courthouse

In a section called “The Surrender”

[Link: www.nps.gov…]

On April 9, 1865 after four years of Civil War, approximately 630,000 deaths and over 1 million casualties, General Robert E. Lee surrendered the Confederate Army of Northern Virginia to Lieutenant General Ulysses S. Grant, at the home of Wilmer and Virginia McLean in the rural town of Appomattox Court House, Virginia. General Lee arrived at the Mclean home shortly after 1:00 p.m. followed a half hour later by General Grant. The meeting lasted approximately an hour and a half. The terms agreed to by General Lee and Grant and accepted by the Federal Government would become the model used for all the other surrenders which shortly followed

McDonnell’s re-writing of history calling it a “Peace Agreement” is really pissing me off.

132 Ericus58  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 5:22:29pm

re: #89 WindUpBird

A good example of corporate evil.

yeah, I said that, Mandy. I WENT THERE

Now Now, let’s not get ugly. You’re better than that.
Besides, isn’t it beer-thirty?

133 Decatur Deb  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 5:22:34pm

re: #105 reine.de.tout

Um, no.
Moral people can not support less than moral causes.
No way.

There is a vast difference between celebrating the honest history of the south and celebrating “southern-ness”, and celebration of the Confederacy and its goals. Huge difference.

True, but it is very difficult to maintain the honesty. The SCV seems to have had an innocent history-buff origin, but was at least partly co-opted.

Per Wikipedia:

In 1889, the United Confederate Veterans (UCV) were formed in New Orleans in part as an outgrowth of the campaign to preserve what would become Chickamauga and Chattanooga National Military Park. The UCV was formed along the order of the Grand Army of the Republic (GAR) which was established in 1866 for Union Veterans. The Sons of Confederate Veterans is the direct heir of the United Confederate Veterans.[3] The SCV was organized at Richmond, Virginia, in June 1896.[3]

Presidents Bill Clinton and George W. Bush have tendered letters of commendation to the SCV and affiliates,[4][5] as have other members of the United States Congress.

On May 25, 2009, President Barack Obama garnered praise from SCV Commander Chuck McMichael, who stated, “He upheld the tradition of the office to which he was elected. I do intend to send him a thank you letter. This is the kind of thing that transcends politics.” This statement was in response to Obama’s decision to continue the long standing tradition of the U.S. President sending a wreath to the Confederate Monument at Arlington National Cemetery on Memorial Day.[6]
[edit]

134 HoosierHoops  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 5:22:35pm

re: #84 marjoriemoon

Suffice to say, I think one can find racism everywhere. I’ve never seen any place completely free of it. People are assholes.

But then again, not every state wants to celebrate “Angry White Racist Guy Month”.

And btw, I know some nice folks who are trailer trash :)

You are very kind…
Indiana has issues with race.. They need to grow past it…or die a natural death..
But I’m a California Native and say what you will about us.. We respect people..We are diverse
Never once in my life ever I sat around a club with old White guys saying N*gger this and N*gger that.. And just pure hate…And yet when a Black man walked into the Club..Well they just loved him to his face..Till he left to play..Then N*gger this and N*gger that..
Just fucking disgusting.. I swear I have never seen this in my life…There is something wrong here..
Sorry to bring this up.. It just reminded me of my posts last summer and how upset I was

135 SpaceJesus  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 5:22:53pm

in case a southerner tells you this wasn’t about slavery, remind their redneck butts about Alexander H. Stephens’s cornerstone speech of the confederacy.

[Link: teachingamericanhistory.org…]

in relevant part,

“Our new government is founded upon exactly the opposite idea; its foundations are laid, its corner-stone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery subordination to the superior race is his natural and normal condition. This, our new government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth.” -Alexand Stephens, VP of the Confederacy

136 Pacific moderate  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 5:23:20pm

The sports writer David Fleming once mocked the Confederate nostalgists if for no better reason that they identify with losers (“the Grand Army of the Confederacy finished its career 0-1”). It’s like the undereducated White folks making up the legions of Palin fetishers, who that seem obsessed with being looked down on by the rest of the country, and I guess looking for the Rapture and Jesus to come down and swoop them up in a spacecraft or something from which they can then stick out their tongue at the rest of us. Isn’t that the same kind of victimology and self-pity that’s at play in the minds of the Islamists today? Obsessed with the inferiority of their power, and reacting by identifying even more strongly with history’s losers?

137 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 5:23:27pm

re: #90 albusteve

that’s pure speculation…Lee had not surrendered so we’ll never know will we?…
I think you are politicizing an event that had little moral justification

I cannot be certain. It is simply my read of the facts. If you reach a different conclusion that is not badly at odds with the facts (and you have), then that is simply a disagreement. We’ve got room for those here.

138 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 5:24:30pm

re: #130 allegro

see the link at #107

I thought someone was trying to say the Klan was still very active here.

139 Uninformed Opinion  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 5:25:33pm

re: #129 Walter L. Newton

Where in that article does it say “Colorado was controlled by the KKK”

It does not directly say as such in any of my 3 articles. The klan had a prominent influence with many political members in the 20s.

140 Four More Tears  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 5:25:59pm

re: #135 SpaceJesus

in case a southerner tells you this wasn’t about slavery, remind their redneck butts about Alexander H. Stephens’s cornerstone speech of the confederacy.

[Link: teachingamericanhistory.org…]

in relevant part,

“Our new government is founded upon exactly the opposite idea; its foundations are laid, its corner-stone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery subordination to the superior race is his natural and normal condition. This, our new government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth.” -Alexand Stephens, VP of the Confederacy

Reading that makes me want to vomit.

141 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 5:26:07pm

re: #126 justaminute

I don’t know. Our signs are spelled correctly, maybe.

sprinkle some errant apostrophes around!

142 Randall Gross  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 5:27:05pm

Redbuds are back…

Image: redbudx-2010.jpg

143 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 5:27:16pm

OT, but interesting:

Check out this anti-teen pregnancy ad with Bristol Palin:

Bristol Advocates Abstinence In Candie’s Foundation PSA

144 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 5:27:33pm

re: #125 Uninformed Opinion

Not as much as you. Hooded Empire is on the list, any suggestions?

I read the link at #107, yea, 1920’s, you made it sound like we have city council members wearing hood to meeting last month.

Here, if you really need some “outrage” to get through the evening, something about Colorado to be “outraged” about, look up the “LaPorte Church of Christ.”

[Link: en.wikipedia.org…]

This will keep you sated for the evening. And tomorrow, if you are nice, I’ll tell you all about Colorado Springs.

145 SpaceJesus  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 5:28:11pm

re: #140 JasonA

the entire reason the south secede was white supremicism

146 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 5:28:35pm

re: #139 Uninformed Opinion

It does not directly say as such in any of my 3 articles. The klan had a prominent influence with many political members in the 20s.

So… they fucking did all over the country… very popular with many people, conservatives, liberal, progressives… that’s no big secret.

147 Gus  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 5:29:10pm

re: #94 WindUpBird

*cough* Colorado Springs *cough*

Actually, in the link provided in #107 you’ll find this:

Numerous cities and towns were infiltrated by Klan activities, Quillen noted, including Denver, Pueblo, Grand Junction and Canon City. “Only one major city escaped,” he noted, and that city was Colorado Springs.

The Klan was influential throughout the United States.

I’ve been in Colorado for almost 20 years. Haven’t heard or seen anything about the KKK. However, I did hear about them when I lived in New Jersey.

148 Skeetghazi  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 5:29:23pm

re: #144 Walter L. Newton

Ugh.

149 Tigger2005  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 5:29:33pm

re: #28 Ojoe

Union dead at Gettysburg.

… gave their lives to end slavery.

If the Union had not been saved we would not have been there to help stop Hitler, only 80 years later.

I think there were a few Civil War vets still around during WW2 and a bit beyond. I believe one of the last CW vets died in the mid-1950’s. He was probably 16 or 17 or so at the end of the war.

150 Ericus58  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 5:30:17pm

re: #142 Thanos

Redbuds are back…

Image: redbudx-2010.jpg

My wife say’s those are Bleeding Hearts

151 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 5:30:34pm

re: #147 Gus 802

The Klan was influential throughout the United States.

I’ve been in Colorado for almost 20 years. Haven’t heard or seen anything about the KKK. However, I did hear about them when I lived in New Jersey.

Thanks for backing me up on this… my goodness… he was making it sound like we all are tripping over our long white robes… I love the summer robes… sort of knee length and they have those pockets for all your cliff climbing equipment.

152 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 5:31:35pm

re: #148 Stanley Sea

Ugh.

I have years of monthly newsletter booklets from them, all the way back to the 80’s. Far right Christian movements is one of my specialties.

153 ryannon  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 5:31:36pm

re: #99 Obdicut

Like how, for example? How is it more insidious in the North?

Can you point to an actual example of racism being worth in the Northern states?

Martin Luther King’s (canceled) march in Cicero, Illinois.

Cicero was taken up and abandoned several times as site for a civil rights march in the mid-1960s. The American Friends Service Committee, the Rev. Martin Luther King, and many affiliated organizations, including churches, were conducting marches against housing and school de facto segregation and inequality in Chicago and several suburbs, but the leaders feared too violent a response in Chicago Lawn and Cicero. Eventually, a substantial march (met by catcalls, flying bottles and bricks) was conducted in Chicago Lawn, but only a splinter group, led by Rev. Jesse Jackson, marched in Cicero

[Link: en.wikipedia.org…]

154 Randall Gross  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 5:31:37pm

re: #150 Ericus58

My wife say’s those are Bleeding Hearts

Well in Kansas we call ‘em redbud trees.

155 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 5:31:39pm

re: #114 reine.de.tout

If I could give you a thousand karma I would, Reine. We should have a day like that here, where we just get to transfer Karma. It’d be like we were all Rockefellers.

156 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 5:31:49pm

Supper - bbiab

157 Gus  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 5:32:29pm

re: #151 Walter L. Newton

Thanks for backing me up on this… my goodness… he was making it sound like we all are tripping over our long white robes… I love the summer robes… sort of knee length and they have those pockets for all your cliff climbing equipment.

No problem.

Denver of course had Mayor Wellington Webb for a couple of terms.

158 Uninformed Opinion  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 5:32:36pm

re: #151 Walter L. Newton

Thanks for backing me up on this… my goodness… he was making it sound like we all are tripping over our long white robes… I love the summer robes… sort of knee length and they have those pockets for all your cliff climbing equipment.

I did not mean to portray it as current, I left out the context.

159 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 5:33:10pm

re: #149 Tigger2005

I think there were a few Civil War vets still around during WW2 and a bit beyond. I believe one of the last CW vets died in the mid-1950’s. He was probably 16 or 17 or so at the end of the war.

Actually I think it was around 15, but I could be wrong. There were enough of them still alive to constitute effective chapters of the Grand Army of the Republic veterans organization into the 1920’s.

160 Virginia Plain  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 5:33:14pm

re: #107 Uninformed Opinion

My, my. How times have changed. Now KKK members have an easier time with the Republicans. But so far in Co. Springs, I haven’t seen any recruitment from KKK or other racist organizations.

161 Ericus58  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 5:33:21pm

re: #154 Thanos

Well in Kansas we call ‘em redbud trees.

I like ‘em.

162 Mich-again  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 5:33:22pm

Joe Sobran sums up the Paleocon take on slavery.. Slavery in Perspective

This sentence boils it all down ..

The ones who survived to be slaves in the New World, though unenviable, were relatively lucky.

I’m surprised Governor McDonnell didn’t drop that line.

163 Tigger2005  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 5:33:47pm

re: #149 Tigger2005

I think there were a few Civil War vets still around during WW2 and a bit beyond. I believe one of the last CW vets died in the mid-1950’s. He was probably 16 or 17 or so at the end of the war.

Yep…he lived right here in Missouri. From Wikianswers:

John Thomas (“Uncle Johnny”) Graves, 108, (1842-1950) the South’s oldest Civil War veteran, for whose sole benefit the Missouri State Confederate Home was maintained at an annual cost of $25,000; in Higginsville, Mo. After two years in the Army of the Confederacy, Uncle Johnny was discharged in 1863 for reasons of “poor health.”

164 soap_man  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 5:33:56pm

re: #149 Tigger2005

I think there were a few Civil War vets still around during WW2 and a bit beyond. I believe one of the last CW vets died in the mid-1950’s. He was probably 16 or 17 or so at the end of the war.

This blew my mind when I first read it. It’s from 2004.

Civil War widow, final link to old Confederacy, dies

After living in obscurity and poverty for most of her life, she spent her final years with the Sons of Confederate Veterans carrying her to conventions and rallies, often with a small Confederate battle flag waving in her hand and her clothes the colors of the rebel banner.

“I don’t see nothing wrong with the flag flying,” she said frequently.

Gertrude Janeway, the last widow of a Union veteran from the Civil War, died in January 2003 at her home in Tennessee. She was 93 and had married veteran John Janeway when she was 18.

165 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 5:34:16pm

re: #153 ryannon

How is that an example of racism being worse in the North?

I am under no impressions that racism didn’t exist in the North.

166 Randall Gross  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 5:34:43pm

re: #161 Ericus58

I like ‘em.

Yeah, me too, thinking about getting a couple of more planted.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org…]

167 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 5:34:52pm

re: #147 Gus 802

The Klan was influential throughout the United States.

I’ve been in Colorado for almost 20 years. Haven’t heard or seen anything about the KKK. However, I did hear about them when I lived in New Jersey.

Huh!

168 Uninformed Opinion  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 5:34:54pm

re: #160 Virginia Plain

My, my. How times have changed. Now KKK members have an easier time with the Republicans. But so far in Co. Springs, I haven’t seen any recruitment from KKK or other racist organizations.

I left out the historical timeframe above, I meant in the 1920s.

169 reine.de.tout  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 5:35:07pm

re: #133 Decatur Deb

True, but it is very difficult to maintain the honesty. The SCV seems to have had an innocent history-buff origin, but was at least partly co-opted.

Per Wikipedia:

In 1889, the United Confederate Veterans (UCV) were formed in New Orleans in part as an outgrowth of the campaign to preserve what would become Chickamauga and Chattanooga National Military Park. The UCV was formed along the order of the Grand Army of the Republic (GAR) which was established in 1866 for Union Veterans. The Sons of Confederate Veterans is the direct heir of the United Confederate Veterans.[3] The SCV was organized at Richmond, Virginia, in June 1896.[3]

Presidents Bill Clinton and George W. Bush have tendered letters of commendation to the SCV and affiliates,[4][5] as have other members of the United States Congress.

On May 25, 2009, President Barack Obama garnered praise from SCV Commander Chuck McMichael, who stated, “He upheld the tradition of the office to which he was elected. I do intend to send him a thank you letter. This is the kind of thing that transcends politics.” This statement was in response to Obama’s decision to continue the long standing tradition of the U.S. President sending a wreath to the Confederate Monument at Arlington National Cemetery on Memorial Day.[6]
[edit]

It does get confusing.
I have no ancestral ties to the Confederate South as my “folks” arrived just after the end of the Civil War.

But I love living where I live, I would not want to live anywhere else. We have a very rich history and culture here in Louisiana, partly because we weren’t “American” until 1803. In fact, prior to the Louisiana Purchase (and I suspect following it for awhile), the “British” or “Americans” were looked down upon by much of Louisiana society as being boorish heathens.

I’m reading a book right now by Laura Locoul Gore, the last descendent of a Creole family who owned a plantation near New Orleans, now known as Laura Plantation. In it she talks of her great-grandmother’s childhood reminiscences, and one is this:

“Oh, how terrible it was at a dance one night when a tall, gauchy American asked me to dance and mashed my toe. To this day my toe still hurts me.”

The reference to the “gauchy American” was not meant to be in any way complimentary, for none but a gallant Frenchman was to be considered a gentleman.

170 JHW  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 5:35:26pm

re: #159 Dark_Falcon

Albert Henry Woolson

171 Decatur Deb  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 5:35:34pm

re: #134 HoosierHoops

You are very kind…
Indiana has issues with race.. They need to grow past it…or die a natural death..
But I’m a California Native and say what you will about us.. We respect people..We are diverse
Never once in my life ever I sat around a club with old White guys saying N*gger this and N*gger that.. And just pure hate…And yet when a Black man walked into the Club..Well they just loved him to his face..Till he left to play..Then N*gger this and N*gger that..
Just fucking disgusting.. I swear I have never seen this in my life…There is something wrong here..
Sorry to bring this up.. It just reminded me of my posts last summer and how upset I was

Indiana History Magazine: A Closer Look at Indiana’s Klan

[Link: www.iub.edu…]

172 Skeetghazi  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 5:35:55pm

And then we have Glenn Beck’s planned “gathering” at the Lincoln Memorial on the anniversary of MLK’s “I have a Dream” speech this summer.

173 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 5:36:07pm

re: #153 ryannon

Martin Luther King’s (canceled) march in Cicero, Illinois.

Cicero was taken up and abandoned several times as site for a civil rights march in the mid-1960s. The American Friends Service Committee, the Rev. Martin Luther King, and many affiliated organizations, including churches, were conducting marches against housing and school de facto segregation and inequality in Chicago and several suburbs, but the leaders feared too violent a response in Chicago Lawn and Cicero. Eventually, a substantial march (met by catcalls, flying bottles and bricks) was conducted in Chicago Lawn, but only a splinter group, led by Rev. Jesse Jackson, marched in Cicero

[Link: en.wikipedia.org…]

Very true. Cicero has a violent and racist past. Unlike many places, that was not because of the KKK. Given the large number of Catholic gangsters in Chicago, The Klan did not try to set up shop in Cook County since they knew it would have provoked a violent reaction.

174 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 5:36:44pm

re: #135 SpaceJesus

Kind of puts Biden’s flubs into perspective, don’t it?

175 William Barnett-Lewis  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 5:38:12pm

re: #159 Dark_Falcon

Actually I think it was around 15, but I could be wrong. There were enough of them still alive to constitute effective chapters of the Grand Army of the Republic veterans organization into the 1920’s.

from Wiki:
The last surviving Union veteran is considered to be Albert Woolson (1850?-1956), alleged to have been 109.

William

176 Surabaya Stew  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 5:38:23pm

re: #164 soap_man

This blew my mind when I first read it. It’s from 2004.

Civil War widow, final link to old Confederacy, dies

I remember reading that the last widow of the American Revolution died in 1911, while the last War of 1812 widow passed in 1946! This means that we can expect to be paying off for WWII in 2075 and the Vietnam war until 2110.

177 Gus  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 5:38:46pm

Madison, Wisconsin - 1924

During the years after World War I, The Capital Times battled against the Ku Klux Klan, shown here during a 1924 march through the Greenbush neighborhood on South Park Street.

178 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 5:40:08pm

re: #170 JHW

Albert Henry Woolson

Thank you. I haven’t seen you around much, but I’m glad you’re here.

179 Gus  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 5:40:40pm

Ashland, Oregon - 1920s

A Ku Klux Klan march on East Main Street in Ashland in the 1920s. Part of the Klan philosophy of “100 percent Americanism” rested on the belief in the superiority of native-born, English-speaking Americans. Under the Klan’s influence, the Oregon Legislature passed an Alien Property Act in 1923, a measure directed at immigrant Japanese in Portland and the Hood River Valley, which prohibited immigrants from owning or leasing land. The same Legislature also petitioned Congress to restrict Asian immigration to the U.S.

180 ryannon  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 5:40:41pm

re: #165 Obdicut

How is that an example of racism being worse in the North?

I am under no impressions that racism didn’t exist in the North.

People who marched in the Deep South were afraid to march in a Chicago suburb. The black ghettos in Chicago were exactly that: ghettos. There were many forms of racism in the North when I was growing up there - including lynchings which were never reported as such.

As for your statement, “I am under no impressions that racism didn’t exist in the North”, I’m afraid I’ve gotten lost in the double negative. In other words, I don’t know quite understand what the hell it means.

181 Decatur Deb  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 5:40:58pm

re: #164 soap_man

There were a number of “last” Confederate widows. Confederates in the Attic explains the process by which so many lived into the mid-1950s. It was an early informal “long-term-care” strategy in which aging veterans with small pensions married very young girls of poor prospects. The vet got care in his decline, the girl got a valuable, if small income.

I’ll post an Amazon link to the book.

182 Tigger2005  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 5:41:26pm

re: #169 reine.de.tout

I just spent a week in Louisiana. I loved it. Those gorgeous old oak trees hung with Spanish moss… those old beautiful buildings in the French Quarter of New Orleans…Spanish Town in Baton Rouge…Avery Island…St. Francisville…the state’s rich, colorful history. Louisiana gets a bad rap, with the political corruption and the Katrina mess and all. I found the people warm, spirited, and living in relative harmony with one another…white, Hispanic, African-American, Cajun, Creole. True, it was only one week, but my quick overall impression was very positive.

183 Ericus58  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 5:42:02pm

re: #166 Thanos

Yeah, me too, thinking about getting a couple of more planted.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org…]

Nice.
Our favorite tree is the Korean Dogwood we have in the front.
Image: oh-to-be-in-england-2-749644.jpg

Closest photo I could find to ours.

184 Gus  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 5:42:39pm

Washington DC - 1925

In this photograph, forty thousand members of the Klan march down Pennsylvania Avenue on August 8, 1925. Organized to counter reports of faltering enrollment, this “konklave“ succeeded in attracting national attention but marked the peak of Klan power in the 1920s.

185 Decatur Deb  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 5:43:19pm

re: #181 Decatur Deb

Here:
[Link: www.amazon.com…]

186 Gus  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 5:43:53pm

Seattle, WA - 1922

Ku Klux Klan Gathering at the Crystal Pool (2nd and Lenora) in Downtown Seattle, WA. March 23, 1923. Photo courtesy of the Washington State Historical Society.

187 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 5:45:18pm

re: #180 ryannon

What I am disputing is the charge that racism was and is worse in the North.

188 reine.de.tout  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 5:45:36pm

re: #182 Tigger2005

I just spent a week in Louisiana. I loved it. Those gorgeous old oak trees hung with Spanish moss… those old beautiful buildings in the French Quarter of New Orleans…Spanish Town in Baton Rouge…Avery Island…St. Francisville…the state’s rich, colorful history. Louisiana gets a bad rap, with the political corruption and the Katrina mess and all. I found the people warm, spirited, and living in relative harmony with one another…white, Hispanic, African-American, Cajun, Creole. True, it was only one week, but my quick overall impression was very positive.

Glad you got to Avery Island!
If you make another trip sometime, let me know, I’ll have a suggestion or two for you.

189 Ericus58  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 5:46:24pm

re: #186 Gus 802

Seattle, WA - 1922

Ku Klux Klan Gathering at the Crystal Pool (2nd and Lenora) in Downtown Seattle, WA. March 23, 1923. Photo courtesy of the Washington State Historical Society.

wow…… and to think I left Michigan when I joined the Navy in ‘77 and was heading for better parts.

Glad to say, that’s not the norm now here.

190 Decatur Deb  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 5:46:50pm

re: #187 Obdicut

What I am disputing is the charge that racism was and is worse in the North.

It’s very hard to define a metric. If you use verified lynchings, it seems worse in the South,IIRC. Will look.

191 reine.de.tout  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 5:47:00pm

re: #155 Obdicut

If I could give you a thousand karma I would, Reine. We should have a day like that here, where we just get to transfer Karma. It’d be like we were all Rockefellers.

I’m not worried about the karma!
But if it wasn’t gonna be me getting the updings, I’m glad it was you.
:-)

192 allegro  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 5:47:45pm

re: #187 Obdicut

I can only speak from personal experience as well, but I hear more cringe-worthy racists comments from my relatives in Boston and from old acquaintances in Chicago than I hear in Houston. Though I never had a shotgun pulled on me anywhere but Vidor, TX when I was doing a home visit with a co-worker, a black man.

193 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 5:49:21pm

re: #190 Decatur Deb

It is hard to define a metric. I would think, however, that by the metric of blacks being allowed to own property, blacks voting in high percentages, etc, that the North would ‘win’, though of course there’s plenty of shameful racism in the North as well.

Jim Crow wasn’t only in the South, but it was more in the South than in the North.

194 Gus  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 5:49:22pm

re: #189 Ericus58

wow… and to think I left Michigan when I joined the Navy in ‘77 and was heading for better parts.

Glad to say, that’s not the norm now here.

Some of the demise of the KKK is credited to the Superman show. Could find a link somewhere.

The 1920 saw a resurgence of the Klan. More information here:

Known as “Doc” Simmons (he falsely claimed to have attended Johns Hopkins medical school) or “Colonel” (an honorary title), William J. Simmons was a small-time preacher best known as an effective recruiter for various fraternal organizations. In 1915 Simmons was inspired to reorganize the Ku Klux Klan after seeing the movie “Birth Of A Nation,” D.W. Griffith’s spectacular account of Reconstruction, told from the perspective of the Klan and adopting the group’s mythic vision of a noble and innocent antebellum South. Dissatisfied with the many fraternal organizations of which he was a member (or by his lack of control over those groups), Simmons sought to establish his own organization dedicated to “comprehensive Americanism.” When “Birth of a Nation” opened in Atlanta, he ran an advertisement for the Klan next to the movie’s ad in the Atlanta newspaper…

Peak membership across the country was 4 million.

195 Gus  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 5:49:43pm

re: #194 Gus 802

1920s that is. PIMF

196 ryannon  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 5:50:29pm

re: #187 Obdicut

What I am disputing is the charge that racism was and is worse in the North.

No, of course not - and certainly by a long-shot, notwithstanding the notable exceptions.

I just got side-tracked in the meanders in the thread, my own thoughts, and the lateness of the hour here….

197 Decatur Deb  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 5:50:47pm

re: #190 Decatur Deb

It’s very hard to define a metric. If you use verified lynchings, it seems worse in the South,IIRC. Will look.

Fairly good stats:
[Link: www.law.umkc.edu…]

198 Ericus58  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 5:53:09pm

Dinner has been lovely prepared, I must depart.

Be well all.

199 Gus  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 5:54:00pm

The reference to Superman destroying the Klan points to Stetson Kennedy:

In 1947, Stetson Kennedy provided information - including secret codewords and details of Klan rituals - to the writers of the Superman radio program, leading popular journalist Stephen J. Dubner and University of Chicago economist Steven Levitt, in their 2005 book Freakonomics, to dub Stetson Kennedy “the greatest single contributor to the weakening of the Ku Klux Klan”.[4] The result was a series of 16 episodes in which Superman took on the Klan. Kennedy intended to strip away the Klan’s mystique; and the trivialization of the Klan’s rituals and codewords likely had a negative impact on Klan recruiting and membership.[5] The amount of inside information about the KKK that was revealed on the show appears exaggerated. A review of all 16 episodes of the “Clan of the Fiery Cross” Superman storyline reveals that no passwords were revealed on the air and only one ritual was portrayed. In 1952, when Kennedy ran for governor of Florida, his friend and houseguest Woody Guthrie wrote a set of lyrics for a campaign song, “Stetson Kennedy”.[6] Kennedy says he became “the most hated man in Florida”, and his home at Fruit Cove near Lake Beluthahatchee was firebombed by rightists and many of his papers destroyed, causing him to leave the country and go to live in France. There, in 1954, Kennedy wrote his sensational exposé of the workings of the Klan, I Rode With The Ku Klux Klan (later reissued as The Klan Unmasked), which was published by Jean-Paul Sartre. Questioned in later years about the accuracy of his account, Kennedy later said he regretted not having included an explanatory introduction to the book about how the information in it was obtained.[7]

I’m sure most of you have heard about this before.

Penn Says: Superman and the KKK

Youtube Video
200 HoosierHoops  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 5:57:12pm

re: #196 ryannon

No, of course not - and certainly by a long-shot, notwithstanding the notable exceptions.

I just got side-tracked in the meanders in the thread, my own thoughts, and the lateness of the hour here…

It is Springtime..The Yankees and Red Sox are on TV..I just ate the biggest Turkey Sandwich ever made.. 7 grain bread..a pound of white meat..Mayo and pepper..A whole tomato and lettuce..And more pepper..
I am so stuffed!
/Yogurt for dessert.. Don’t be hating!

201 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 5:59:12pm

re: #194 Gus 802

Peak membership across the country was 4 million.

As an aside, Birth of a Nation had a truly tragic influence. It was a cinematic triumph, being the the first American big budget blockbuster, and it was brilliantly conceived and produced by D.W. Griffith. Yet all of that talent was used to create a vile story of racism and lies. The movie’s main influence was to aid in the re-birth of a racist terror organization.

202 kirkspencer  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 6:00:01pm

re: #50 JHW

After a decade of being in the south (from Kansas and Colorado, to know my viewpoint) I’ve determined that much of southern culture is dominated by three factors: Ancestors; Class; and Face.

In other parts of the nation you can find people who will speak of their ancestors but it’s not the norm. Here, a casual (not sales or business) conversation of more than 15 minutes WILL include a reference to an ancestor at least half the time.

You must never pretend to be above yourself, and while you may tolerate and be with those beneath you, you must never let them think of themselves as your equals. ALWAYS make sure your lessers know you are the better in some fashion.

Maintain your appearance and image above any other truth. Even if everyone knows it’s a lie, it’s still accepted as long as nobody calls you on it. For simple courtesy you should never publicly call a lie a lie, either. Oh, and the face of your ancestors is more important than your own — NEVER let it be said they were wrong, or they lost, or were otherwise less than great.

Now this isn’t true of all southerners. It is, however, a cultural norm that applies to large extent to most southerners I’ve met — in GA, LA, AL, and MS, and to some extent in Texas and Florida.

203 ryannon  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 6:04:10pm

re: #200 HoosierHoops

It is Springtime..The Yankees and Red Sox are on TV..I just ate the biggest Turkey Sandwich ever made.. 7 grain bread..a pound of white meat..Mayo and pepper..A whole tomato and lettuce..And more pepper..
I am so stuffed!
/Yogurt for dessert.. Don’t be hating!

What’s not to like there?

You seem to be one of the happiest, good natured guys I’ve ever encountered on the Net. And the more power to you, Mr. Hoops!

204 SpaceJesus  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 6:04:11pm

re: #202 kirkspencer


my great great great grandma was a cherokee princess

205 ryannon  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 6:06:08pm

re: #204 SpaceJesus

my great great great grandma was a cherokee princess

My aunt was Nefertiti.

206 John Vreeland  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 6:09:12pm
#54 Jason A
I’ve always wondered… why is King Arthur so revered by the British? I mean, he fought against their Anglo-Saxon ancestors, didn’t he? I don’t understand people sometimes.

You answered your own question. Arthur was British.

207 ryannon  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 6:10:26pm

re: #206 Vreejack

You answered your own question. Arthur was British.

And he played for Manchester United.

208 SpaceJesus  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 6:13:28pm

a fun read on why anybody who pulls the “cherokee princess” bullshit is actually a moron descended from a long line of morons, and likely a southerner.


[Link: www.native-languages.org…]

209 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Apr 7, 2010 7:51:29pm

re: #13 Dark_Falcon

I can understand why in some places. Many such people feel humiliated by their defeat, even one so long ago.

Given the great honor with which Southern soldiers served as representatives of the United States in several important wars SINCE the Civil War…

C’mon, winning WWII salves nothing?


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