Update: At Least 80 GOP Candidates Would Force Women to Bear Rapists’ Babies

US News • Views: 5,526

Raw Story picked up on my post about the Republican National Coalition For Life’s appallingly large list of GOP candidates who support extreme anti-abortion positions (no exceptions for rape and incest). They counted the number of candidates who actually won their primaries and will stand for election, and came up with at least 78 GOP candidates who would force women to bear rapists’ babies.

The Republican National Coalition For Life, a political action committee formed by anti-feminist activist Phyllis Schlafly, sends out questionnaires every election season to Republican candidates asking them to lay out their positions on abortion.

A list of responses from this year’s candidates indicate that 78 Senate and House candidates answered that they are “pro-life without discrimination,” meaning they don’t agree with any exceptions to a ban on abortion.

The list was flagged earlier this week by Charles Johnson at the Little Green Footballs blog. Johnson counted 112 candidates who hold that view of abortion, but a Raw Story count of the listed candidates found 78 who have won their primary and indicated they would make no exceptions to allow abortion.

For accuracy’s sake I went back to the site and counted again (twice), and they now list 80 GOP candidates who want to force women to give birth to rapists’ babies.

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284 comments
1 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 12:30:04pm

Cue people telling us not to worry about this for some reason.

2 Political Atheist  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 12:31:19pm

Thanks for the list. It’s my “never gonna vote this guy” list. 80 or 112. More than zero is too many.

3 steve  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 12:32:48pm

Adoption! The women gets the best counseling that money can buy.

4 HappyWarrior  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 12:34:53pm

You know what makes it bad really is how candidates like Angle use stupid cliches. She used the life and lemons one in regards to raped teenage girls. That’s just messed up. I don’t care how you feel about abortion one way or the other.

5 Vambo  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 12:36:03pm

re: #1 Obdicut

Cue people telling us not to worry about this for some reason.

It’s really nothing to worry about, Repubs have better ideas on how to fix the economy and I’m sure they don’t really mean all this stuff about abortion./

6 Romantic Heretic  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 12:36:14pm

Eh. What do those people care? It’s not like they’re going to get pregnant.

The unspoken motto of the Republican party is, “I’m all right, Jack.”

7 PhillyPretzel  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 12:36:15pm

For some reason I thought most Republicans were for smaller government. Gee this seems to be going in the opposite direction.

8 HappyWarrior  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 12:37:15pm

re: #7 PhillyPretzel

For some reason I thought most Republicans were for smaller government. Gee this seems to be going in the opposite direction.

They’re only for smaller government when it suits their interests and views.
Government intervention to help the less fortunate is evil socialism but criminalizing abortion is fine and dandy.

9 Eclectic Infidel  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 12:38:04pm

I thought the initial count was at 112?

10 Eclectic Infidel  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 12:39:42pm

re: #9 eclectic infidel

I thought the initial count was at 112?

Reading comprehension is my friend

counted 112 candidates who hold that view of abortion, but a Raw Story count of the listed candidates found 78 who have won their primary and indicated they would make no exceptions to allow abortion
11 Lidane  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 12:39:56pm

re: #7 PhillyPretzel

For some reason I thought most Republicans were for smaller government.

The uterus is a fairly small space. As long as they can fit the government in there, it totally counts.

///

12 PhillyPretzel  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 12:41:15pm

re: #11 Lidane

LOL.

13 wrenchwench  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 12:48:47pm

Is there any Democratic candidate who is running against one of these Republicans and is using their anti-choice stance against them? The race I’m familiar with has not had the issue brought up at all.

14 Political Atheist  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 12:51:52pm

I just got my sample ballot. Nobody from the 112 is on it.

Parties on the ballot, links for reference
Democratic
Republican
Green
American Independent
Libertarian
Peace And Freedom

Sorry Ojoe, not a single Whig.

15 sagehen  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 12:56:17pm

Yo! DSCC, DCCC! Are you paying attention?

Do you see here the makings of a national campaign spot?

There’s still time to save your November.

16 Jadespring  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 12:57:50pm

Things like this make me feel grateful that I live where I do.

17 Political Atheist  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 1:00:45pm

re: #16 Jadespring

Where is that?

18 Killgore Trout  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 1:05:05pm

For the Foodies: Hulu now carries full episodes of Good Eats
I’m watching the episode on oils now. Pretty good.

19 Jadespring  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 1:06:35pm

re: #17 Rightwingconspirator

Where is that?

Canada. Yes we have people here who hold this point of view but it’s just not part of the national discourse in any major way. It would be an automatic death knell for any candidacy to the point where if candidates hold these sorts of views would be totally silent on it. Abortion in general just isn’t a major policy platform that you find people running on. Stephen Harper and his party wouldn’t dare bring anything about it up if they wanted to remain in power or in their case get a majority the next election.

Same with issues like same sex marriage. It’s pretty much a done deal up here.

20 dragonfire1981  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 1:09:41pm

re: #7 PhillyPretzel

You mean smaller christian goverment

21 PhillyPretzel  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 1:11:07pm

re: #20 dragonfire1981
Secular government.

22 dragonfire1981  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 1:12:04pm

re: #13 wrenchwench

I would guess no since most people are most concerned about the economy right now. Abortion is further down the list.

I am curious how exactly could a pro choice person sway a pro life person?

Logically, pro lifers feel that all life is created by God and even if a woman is pregnant by a rapist, the baby is a gift from the Lord that should be allowed to live, since it had no control over its circumstances of conception and is therefore innocent.

So how would a pro choice person counter that argument? I’ve thought about this and never came up with a good response.

23 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 1:14:29pm

re: #19 Jadespring

Canada. Yes we have people here who hold this point of view but it’s just not part of the national discourse in any major way. It would be an automatic death knell for any candidacy to the point where if candidates hold these sorts of views would be totally silent on it. Abortion in general just isn’t a major policy platform that you find people running on. Stephen Harper and his party wouldn’t dare bring anything about it up if they wanted to remain in power or in their case get a majority the next election.

Same with issues like same sex marriage. It’s pretty much a done deal up here.

man, wouldn’t that be nice, less crazy

24 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 1:15:23pm

re: #22 dragonfire1981

I would guess no since most people are most concerned about the economy right now. Abortion is further down the list.

I am curious how exactly could a pro choice person sway a pro life person?

Logically, pro lifers feel that all life is created by God and even if a woman is pregnant by a rapist, the baby is a gift from the Lord that should be allowed to live, since it had no control over its circumstances of conception and is therefore innocent.

So how would a pro choice person counter that argument? I’ve thought about this and never came up with a good response.

The lord moves in mysterious ways

25 ClaudeMonet  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 1:15:50pm

Damn. The list includes OH-2, less than two miles east of me, and OH-8, Bonehead’s district, where I lived for 14 years, but not OH-1. I was hoping that Chabot, who got thrown out in 2008 and who is running again, had signed on, so I’d have a reason to vote for Driehaus, the milquetoast Democrat who won last time (beneficiary of a landslide and thinks HE did the hard work).

Now it’s back to voting for neither.

26 Eclectic Infidel  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 1:16:40pm

re: #22 dragonfire1981

I would guess no since most people are most concerned about the economy right now. Abortion is further down the list.

I am curious how exactly could a pro choice person sway a pro life person?

Logically, pro lifers feel that all life is created by God and even if a woman is pregnant by a rapist, the baby is a gift from the Lord that should be allowed to live, since it had no control over its circumstances of conception and is therefore innocent.

So how would a pro choice person counter that argument? I’ve thought about this and never came up with a good response.

Individual liberty demands that a woman has full control over her body, necessarily including that which grows inside her. The argument that a god is responsible is subjective at best since it’s a faith-based belief. In the end, it is irrelevant that the fetus didn’t have a say with its inception. Mind you, pro-birthers take no issue that a woman loses control of her body with abortion being outlawed - it’s a given.

27 Ojoe  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 1:18:31pm

Excellent Towercam view with storm clouds.

It used to be that gun control & abortion were not topics on this blog.

28 Ojoe  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 1:19:36pm

re: #14 Rightwingconspirator

I just got my sample ballot. Nobody from the 112 is on it.

Parties on the ballot, links for reference
Democratic
Republican
Green
American Independent
Libertarian
Peace And Freedom

Sorry Ojoe, not a single Whig.

Well we are working on that.

LOL

29 wrenchwench  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 1:20:28pm

re: #22 dragonfire1981

I would guess no since most people are most concerned about the economy right now. Abortion is further down the list.

I am curious how exactly could a pro choice person sway a pro life person?

Logically, pro lifers feel that all life is created by God and even if a woman is pregnant by a rapist, the baby is a gift from the Lord that should be allowed to live, since it had no control over its circumstances of conception and is therefore innocent.

So how would a pro choice person counter that argument? I’ve thought about this and never came up with a good response.

Your only hope is to find that the person realizes their position is based on religious belief, and that they realize this cannot be the basis of law for people who do not share that belief, unless they want to throw out the constitution. Then you hope to find that they like the constitution, maybe because it protects their right to practice their religion, and not have someone else’s forced upon them.

30 ClaudeMonet  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 1:22:16pm

re: #27 Ojoe


It used to be that gun control & abortion were not topics on this blog.

It used to be that I weighed 30 pounds less and had a full head of hair.

So, what’s your point? ;-)

Getting back to the subject—Among those signing this particular pledge are Dan Burton, Daniel Webster (doofus Grayson’s opponent in Florida), Rand Paul, Duncan Hunter, and Michelle Bachmann. I noticed that Mike Pence did not.

31 _remembertonyc  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 1:24:01pm

Imagine how many more elections the GOP could win if they didn’t make a conscious decision to poke independent minded women in the eye with a sharp stick …

32 First As Tragedy, Then As Farce  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 1:24:48pm

It really seems like the Democrats haven’t the slightest clue about anything when it comes to running campaigns. One would think that the DNC would be shouting stuff like this from every rooftop. Unless I’m missing a lot, it looks to me like they’re just standing around waiting to get their asses kicked by a mob of insane idiots.

33 PhillyPretzel  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 1:25:02pm

re: #31 _remembertonyc

Very True.

34 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 1:25:11pm

re: #27 Ojoe

Excellent Towercam view with storm clouds.

It used to be that gun control & abortion were not topics on this blog.

Yeah, it also used to be that there were a bunch of raving anti-islamic wackos in the comments

Air smells sweeter now!

35 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 1:25:39pm

re: #32 negativ

It really seems like the Democrats haven’t the slightest clue about anything when it comes to running campaigns. One would think that the DNC would be shouting stuff like this from every rooftop. Unless I’m missing a lot, it looks to me like they’re just standing around waiting to get their asses kicked by a mob of insane idiots.

Sadly it seems to be true :P

36 wrenchwench  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 1:27:23pm

re: #34 WindUpBird

Yeah, it also used to be that there were a bunch of raving anti-islamic wackos in the comments

Air smells sweeter now!

Ironically, thanks are due to a guy named Stinky.

37 ClaudeMonet  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 1:27:44pm

re: #32 negativ

It really seems like the Democrats haven’t the slightest clue about anything when it comes to running campaigns. One would think that the DNC would be shouting stuff like this from every rooftop. Unless I’m missing a lot, it looks to me like they’re just standing around waiting to get their asses kicked by a mob of insane idiots.

Turning the other cheek is a great way to get the other cheek slapped. What is with so many Democrats, including the national “leadership”, that they’re afraid to fight back against anyone? Come ON, fight the insanity!

38 PhillyPretzel  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 1:28:02pm

re: #36 wrenchwench

LOL

39 ClaudeMonet  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 1:29:22pm

re: #36 wrenchwench

Ironically, thanks are due to a guy named Stinky.

I don’t get it. This is probably because it was something which happened long before I discovered LGF. Please explain!

40 wrenchwench  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 1:31:22pm

re: #37 ClaudeMonet

Turning the other cheek is a great way to get the other cheek slapped. What is with so many Democrats, including the national “leadership”, that they’re afraid to fight back against anyone? Come ON, fight the insanity!

I looked at the campaign website of the Dem running against one of the guys on the list. Abortion is not mentioned. In fact, nothing but “Economy”, “Energy”, “Veterans”, and “Border Security” is mentioned. He probably figures the district is too conservative to bring up social issues. Why risk losing a vote?

41 Max  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 1:31:49pm

ANSWER is getting frisky in Washington.

42 wrenchwench  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 1:33:24pm

re: #39 ClaudeMonet

I don’t get it. This is probably because it was something which happened long before I discovered LGF. Please explain!

Stinky Beaumont used to be listed on the sidebar as the LGF sanitation engineer.

43 Max  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 1:34:31pm

Yikes! Look at the sign on the left.

End all US aid to the Racist State of Israel

At first I thought this rally looked pretty sane compared to the Tea Parties, but after looking at Flickr I’m having second thoughts.

44 _RememberTonyC  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 1:37:39pm

re: #43 Max D. Reinhardt

Yikes! Look at the sign on the left.

At first I thought this rally looked pretty sane compared to the Tea Parties, but after looking at Flickr I’m having second thoughts.

Extremists from both camps are to be avoided … One thing they usually share is hatred of some sort

45 Max  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 1:39:02pm

I want to post a page with all of this documented lunacy but I don’t know if copyright laws forbid me from doing that.

This Flickr album says “Some Rights Reserved.”

46 wrenchwench  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 1:41:10pm

re: #45 Max D. Reinhardt

I want to post a page with all of this documented lunacy but I don’t know if copyright laws forbid me from doing that.

This Flickr album says “Some Rights Reserved.”

Can you email the account holder for permission?

47 Max  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 1:41:17pm

Sign: “Socialism is the Alternative”

48 ClaudeMonet  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 1:42:18pm

re: #43 Max D. Reinhardt

Yikes! Look at the sign on the left.

At first I thought this rally looked pretty sane compared to the Tea Parties, but after looking at Flickr I’m having second thoughts.

Hell, look at the sign in the center. Using the f-bomb in your sign is certainly going to impress the President and get you exposure on the front pages of the major newspapers. Riiiiiiigggghhhhhttt.

re: #40 wrenchwench

I looked at the campaign website of the Dem running against one of the guys on the list. Abortion is not mentioned. In fact, nothing but “Economy”, “Energy”, “Veterans”, and “Border Security” is mentioned. He probably figures the district is too conservative to bring up social issues. Why risk losing a vote?

That could well be. In some districts, though, it could win some votes, both on the position and because it would show some backbone.

Why do Democrats keep allowing the Republicans to set the agenda on social issues? When I was a kid (1960s), it was the other way around.

re: #41 Max D. Reinhardt

ANSWER is getting frisky in Washington.

That may be the worst Lincoln outfit and beard I’ve ever seen. And when did Lincoln wear glasses?

re: #42 wrenchwench

Stinky Beaumont used to be listed on the sidebar as the LGF sanitation engineer.

Thanks for the explanation (?).

49 tradewind  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 1:42:53pm

Democrats are focusing on so called ’ wedge issues ’ again , (abortion is a major one) as the campaign wears on, but here’s the thing: they’re not the thing, this time. Peggy Noonan, often called a RINO because she’s certainly no raving right-winger, nails it here:

Whatever stand you take on the social issues, you have to be blind to think they will make a big difference this year.


[Link: online.wsj.com…]

50 Max  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 1:44:50pm

re: #46 wrenchwench

Can you email the account holder for permission?

They don’t have an email address posted to their account. Flickr’s policy says that as long as I don’t use it for commercial use (since LGF has ads I don’t know if that is considered commercial), I don’t alter it (which I have NO intention of doing), and as long as I attribute it then it is OK.

Still, since I blog under my name I am cautious.

51 ClaudeMonet  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 1:46:15pm

re: #49 tradewind

Democrats are focusing on so called ’ wedge issues ’ again , (abortion is a major one) as the campaign wears on, but here’s the thing: they’re not the thing, this time. Peggy Noonan, often called a RINO because she’s certainly no raving right-winger, nails it here:


[Link: online.wsj.com…]

You and Ms. Noonan are both right. In poor economic times, social issues get put on the back burner, right or wrong. But damn, it would be nice to hear a Democrat show some gumption and at least say, “I think your stance on abortion is incredibly mean and anti-female, but we have bigger issues to discuss right now. We’ll get to your fascist stance on this another time.”

52 PhillyPretzel  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 1:47:44pm

re: #51 ClaudeMonet
That would be wonderful but I do not believe that is going to happen any time soon.

53 ClaudeMonet  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 1:49:20pm

re: #50 Max D. Reinhardt

They don’t have an email address posted to their account. Flickr’s policy says that as long as I don’t use it for commercial use (since LGF has ads I don’t know if that is considered commercial), I don’t alter it (which I have NO intention of doing), and as long as I attribute it then it is OK.

Still, since I blog under my name I am cautious.

I think you’re OK on usage under the circumstances you mentioned. The attribution is key. Make sure you say something like, “Images used for non-commerical purposes without alteration, courtesy of flickr.com. Usage for commercial purposes and/or alteration expressly prohibited by [Link: www.flickr.com.”…]

54 ClaudeMonet  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 1:50:53pm

re: #52 PhillyPretzel

That would be wonderful but I do not believe that is going to happen any time soon.

I’d just like to hear a Democrat call one of the loonier wingnuts a “fascist” one time. Oh, the sh**storm that would ensue!

55 PhillyPretzel  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 1:51:35pm

re: #54 ClaudeMonet
oh yes it would happen.

56 sagehen  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 1:55:12pm

re: #22 dragonfire1981

I would guess no since most people are most concerned about the economy right now. Abortion is further down the list.

I am curious how exactly could a pro choice person sway a pro life person?

Logically, pro lifers feel that all life is created by God and even if a woman is pregnant by a rapist, the baby is a gift from the Lord that should be allowed to live, since it had no control over its circumstances of conception and is therefore innocent.

So how would a pro choice person counter that argument? I’ve thought about this and never came up with a good response.


Somebody who needs a bone marrow transplant had no control over the circumstances of his illness either — and he’s going to die without that transplant. Same for somebody who needs a liver transplant (live donors can give half, it’ll actually regrow).

If I’m a perfect match, if I could save their life by giving of my parts… it’s still up to me whether or not to do so. Risks to a marrow donor, severity of pain, and duration of inconvenience, are considerably less than for gestation and childbirth. But nobody’s suggesting compulsory testing for the donor registry, nobody’s urging that we require people to donate. Even though there’s a life at stake.

What makes my uterus any less special?

57 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 2:02:35pm

re: #56 sagehen

It’s one of those really obviously inconsistent areas; pro-life people do not tend to object to fertility clinics, fertility treatments, or any other artificial method of inducing pregnancy (even those that create a ton of embryos that never get used), while simultaneously claiming that every pregnancy is the handiwork of God.

I don’t understand how, even if you do believe in a soul, you believe in a soul that God personally creates at every moment of conception. What about the 31% of pregnancies that miscarry? And if you do believe that there are souls for the embryos, why on earth would abortion somehow doom or damn them— can God really be foiled that easily?

58 Gus  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 2:03:23pm

Looked at the signs from the rally today on Flickr. Nothing to write home about.

59 ClaudeMonet  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 2:07:25pm

I made a contribution yesterday to the campaign of Jack Conway (running against Rand Paul), and today to Tarryl Clark (running against Michelle Bachmann) and Chris Coons (running against O’Donnell). I may get to Andrew Cuomo later or tomorrow. Won’t donate to Harry Reid, though, as I still have some standards.

I’m glad I have the money to help a little. I also feel a little better right now.

I was just laughing at the visual aspect of the Delaware Senate race. When’s the last time the Democrat was the bald white guy, and the Republican the younger, somewhat attractive woman? Isn’t the stereotype the other way around?

60 researchok  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 2:12:44pm

re: #57 Obdicut

It’s one of those really obviously inconsistent areas; pro-life people do not tend to object to fertility clinics, fertility treatments, or any other artificial method of inducing pregnancy (even those that create a ton of embryos that never get used), while simultaneously claiming that every pregnancy is the handiwork of God.

I don’t understand how, even if you do believe in a soul, you believe in a soul that God personally creates at every moment of conception. What about the 31% of pregnancies that miscarry? And if you do believe that there are souls for the embryos, why on earth would abortion somehow doom or damn them— can God really be foiled that easily?

Yup.

My contention is that unless and until there are funds set aside to help care for these unwanted kids, silence on the matter is best.

61 researchok  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 2:13:31pm

re: #58 Gus 802

Looked at the signs from the rally today on Flickr. Nothing to write home about.

It was a ‘vanityfest’.

62 Gus  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 2:15:34pm

re: #61 researchok

It was a ‘vanityfest’.

I got bored. Filled up my car tires with air and vacuumed the car a bit and then went food shopping. Seemed like a lot of people at that rally kept repeating the same theme over and over again. Got old pretty quick.

63 William of Orange  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 2:16:18pm

Is there anything known about Democratic candidates who stand by these same principles?

64 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 2:17:09pm

re: #60 researchok

I always thought that Planned Parenthood and orphanages/foster child programs should fundraise in tandem. Morally opposed to abortion? Believe every child is sacred? Great! I assume you think that keeping them fed and healthy is sacred, too— so how about a donation?

65 researchok  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 2:18:40pm

re: #62 Gus 802

I got bored. Filled up my car tires with air and vacuumed the car a bit and then went food shopping. Seemed like a lot of people at that rally kept repeating the same theme over and over again. Got old pretty quick.

What astonished me was how little of substance there was.

As moderate righty, I was cringing early on- I expected a litany of substantive criticism of the GOP.

It seems to me the speakers wanted to be regarded as religious rather than political leaders.

Crazy.

66 calochortus  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 2:19:00pm

re: #56 sagehen

Updinged for what I think is the most cogent argument for choice out there. (aka, upding for agreeing with me.)

67 Killgore Trout  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 2:21:52pm

re: #65 researchok

What astonished me was how little of substance there was.

As moderate righty, I was cringing early on- I expected a litany of substantive criticism of the GOP.

It seems to me the speakers wanted to be regarded as religious rather than political leaders.

Crazy.

I wasn’t expecting much from today’s rally but I wasn’t expecting it to be exactly like an anti-war rally from the bush era. I also would have thought the lefties would have learned from the Tea Parties that having radicals at the podium always looks bad. It’s frustrating that the far left and far right can’t seem to learn from each others’ mistakes.

68 researchok  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 2:21:59pm

re: #64 Obdicut

I always thought that Planned Parenthood and orphanages/foster child programs should fundraise in tandem. Morally opposed to abortion? Believe every child is sacred? Great! I assume you think that keeping them fed and healthy is sacred, too— so how about a donation?

The problem, as I see it is not with the ideas you illustrate. The problem has always been with the politicization of PP, et al. PP ought ti be a single issue organization and no more.

Remember the ‘Fuck Bush’ party in Seattle? Way outta line and off point.

69 Gus  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 2:22:32pm

re: #65 researchok

What astonished me was how little of substance there was.

As moderate righty, I was cringing early on- I expected a litany of substantive criticism of the GOP.

It seems to me the speakers wanted to be regarded as religious rather than political leaders.

Crazy.

A lot of weak boiler plate and repeated themes or cliches. They all seemed to start saying “we need jobs, now, and we need good jobs!” Then they all started babbling about green jobs. There was a lot of wishful thinking going on there. There wasn’t much that I saw that I would consider substantive let alone of the GOP. When it was done it was broadly done without any specifics. Way too much religion, or appeal to a “higher power” being thrown in for my taste.

70 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 2:23:52pm

re: #68 researchok

Remember the ‘Fuck Bush’ party in Seattle?

No, I don’t. I have no clue what you’re talking about.

And I’m really unsure how Planned Parenthood is supposed to be non-politicized, when, as this thread shows, abortion is a politicized issue.

71 researchok  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 2:24:02pm

re: #67 Killgore Trout

I wasn’t expecting much from today’s rally but I wasn’t expecting it to be exactly like an anti-war rally from the bush era. I also would have thought the lefties would have learned from the Tea Parties that having radicals at the podium always looks bad. It’s frustrating that the far left and far right can’t seem to learn from each others’ mistakes.

Your TP reference is interesting.

As soon as I read it, I realized what was bugging me about the rally. It seems as if no one really had their heart in it.

72 reine.de.tout  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 2:24:31pm

re: #57 Obdicut

It’s one of those really obviously inconsistent areas; pro-life people do not tend to object to fertility clinics, fertility treatments, or any other artificial method of inducing pregnancy (even those that create a ton of embryos that never get used), while simultaneously claiming that every pregnancy is the handiwork of God.

I don’t understand how, even if you do believe in a soul, you believe in a soul that God personally creates at every moment of conception. What about the 31% of pregnancies that miscarry? And if you do believe that there are souls for the embryos, why on earth would abortion somehow doom or damn them— can God really be foiled that easily?

Actually … some pro-lifers do object to artificial means of inducing pregnancy (the Catholic Church) as well as artificial means of preventing pregnancy, and of course, abortion.

As for the souls - of course if one believes that the embryos have souls (as I do), then it isn’t the aborted baby who is doomed; it’s the persons who brought about the abortion.

It’s no secret I’m heavily pro-life, and will spend whatever energy I have on promoting alternatives to abortion. I also do not want to see those who would choose abortion, dying or suffering, and therefore prefer to see abortions continue to be legal, because if a person wants an abortion, they will get one, legal or not. And being legal provides safeguards for those who seek the procedure. But I sure would be happy to see a day where no one wanted it - unrealistic, of course. But there you have it.

73 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 2:24:33pm

re: #69 Gus 802

I have much higher hopes for Colbert and Stewart’s rallies.

74 Gus  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 2:25:06pm

re: #67 Killgore Trout

I wasn’t expecting much from today’s rally but I wasn’t expecting it to be exactly like an anti-war rally from the bush era. I also would have thought the lefties would have learned from the Tea Parties that having radicals at the podium always looks bad. It’s frustrating that the far left and far right can’t seem to learn from each others’ mistakes.

Hard not to miss the rampant Howard Zinn angst. What the heck did Harry Belafonte bring up the Vietnam War for? And then the co-opting of American Indians — that’s how I saw it.

75 BadgerB  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 2:26:08pm

Just to double down on this, almost all of these candidates will be in favor of repealing universal health care. So they want to force the mother to carry the child to term and then repeal the guarantee that she and her child will have health coverage during and after the pregnancy.

76 Gus  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 2:26:17pm

re: #73 Obdicut

I have much higher hopes for Colbert and Stewart’s rallies.

Mine’s on Stewart. Colbert can get a little weird. Plus there’s a good chance that it will end up being a comedy fest.

77 researchok  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 2:26:48pm

re: #70 Obdicut

No, I don’t. I have no clue what you’re talking about.

And I’m really unsure how Planned Parenthood is supposed to be non-politicized, when, as this thread shows, abortion is a politicized issue.

PP is about a lot more than birth control. That needs to be the focus

78 wrenchwench  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 2:27:26pm

re: #68 researchok

The problem, as I see it is not with the ideas you illustrate. The problem has always been with the politicization of PP, et al. PP ought ti be a single issue organization and no more.

Remember the ‘Fuck Bush’ party in Seattle? Way outta line and off point.

I think the feminists of the seventies made a big mistake encouraging abortions being performed in stand-alone clinics. Sure, there’s other health care done there too, but if abortions had stayed in family practice or gynecological offices, there would not have been so many doctors targeted and clinics bombed. Big mistake, and I suspect it was coldly calculated, but that may be a figment of my own imagination.

79 researchok  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 2:28:11pm

re: #74 Gus 802

Hard not to miss the rampant Howard Zinn angst. What the heck did Harry Belafonte bring up the Vietnam War for? And then the co-opting of American Indians — that’s how I saw it.

Like I said, a vanity fest.

80 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 2:29:00pm

re: #72 reine.de.tout

Actually … some pro-lifers do object to artificial means of inducing pregnancy (the Catholic Church) as well as artificial means of preventing pregnancy, and of course, abortion.

That’s why I said “Do not tend”. And even so, Catholic pro-life protesters— like the ones who stood outside the women’s health clinic down the block from me every day in San Francisco— do not tend to protest fertility clinics. The policy may be the same, but the action is very largely concentrated towards abortion clinics— even though fertility clinics destroy far, far, far, far, far more embryos.


As for the souls - of course if one believes that the embryos have souls (as I do), then it isn’t the aborted baby who is doomed; it’s the persons who brought about the abortion.

Since you don’t want your religious beliefs applied as policy, I’m not concerned with whether or not those beliefs are consistent or not. But you do have to realize that to someone who is not a believer, if you are stating that there is no harm to ‘soul’ of the embryo, there really doesn’t appear that you are stating there is any harm in the abortion itself, making the damning of those who choose to have an abortion seem rather unnecessary.

81 Killgore Trout  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 2:29:34pm

Socialists

antiBush

Answer

anti-bush

More antiBush

It’s like they’re stuck in a time warp.

82 Gus  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 2:29:39pm

re: #79 researchok

Like I said, a vanity fest.

Airing of grievances.

/

83 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 2:30:00pm

re: #77 researchok

PP is about a lot more than birth control. That needs to be the focus

“Need” according to whom? Aren’t you just saying you’d rather that was their focus?

84 Killgore Trout  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 2:30:27pm

re: #76 Gus 802

Mine’s on Stewart. Colbert can get a little weird. Plus there’s a good chance that it will end up being a comedy fest.

I thought this was the Colert/Stewart rally. It wasn’t?

85 researchok  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 2:30:32pm

re: #78 wrenchwench

I think the feminists of the seventies made a big mistake encouraging abortions being performed in stand-alone clinics. Sure, there’s other health care done there too, but if abortions had stayed in family practice or gynecological offices, there would not have been so many doctors targeted and clinics bombed. Big mistake, and I suspect it was coldly calculated, but that may be a figment of my own imagination.

I think you’re right.

I’m pro choice but I do believe that politics (rather than women’s health) drove the movement early on- and that still resonates. When Hillary Clinton said abortions ought to be legal and rare, she was booed and called a traitor.

86 Gus  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 2:31:06pm

re: #84 Killgore Trout

I thought this was the Colert/Stewart rally. It wasn’t?

It is. Just that I hope Stewart takes the lead. OK, I’m a bigger Stewart fan. Much bigger.

87 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 2:31:30pm

re: #84 Killgore Trout

Oh hells no.

That’s the 30th.

88 Gus  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 2:32:00pm

re: #81 Killgore Trout

Socialists

antiBush

Answer

anti-bush

More antiBush

It’s like they’re stuck in a time warp.

It’s almost like a Trekie convention. 20 years from now they’ll be out there with the same signs.

89 ClaudeMonet  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 2:32:28pm

re: #81 Killgore Trout

Socialists

antiBush

Answer

anti-bush

More antiBush

It’s like they’re stuck in a time warp.

It’s just a jump to the left
And then a step to the right
Put your hands on your hips
And bring your knees in tight
And then the pelvic thrust
Well, it’ll drive you insaaaaaane
Let’s do the Time Warp again!!

90 reine.de.tout  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 2:33:06pm

re: #80 Obdicut

That’s why I said “Do not tend”. And even so, Catholic pro-life protesters— like the ones who stood outside the women’s health clinic down the block from me every day in San Francisco— do not tend to protest fertility clinics. The policy may be the same, but the action is very largely concentrated towards abortion clinics— even though fertility clinics destroy far, far, far, far, far more embryos.

Since you don’t want your religious beliefs applied as policy, I’m not concerned with whether or not those beliefs are consistent or not. But you do have to realize that to someone who is not a believer, if you are stating that there is no harm to ‘soul’ of the embryo, there really doesn’t appear that you are stating there is any harm in the abortion itself, making the damning of those who choose to have an abortion seem rather unnecessary.

I frankly did not understand your train of thought thought there.

And really, I’m uninterested in getting into a discussion or argument of my beliefs, they are what they are and I’m not going to explain or justify to anyone. I was simply trying to respond to your earlier comment, where you seemed to think people thought the aborted embryoes were doomed. In my mind, they’re not.

The harm of abortion, in my view, comes from my belief that an embryo is a human life; and the taking of that life through abortion is wrong. Miscarriage occurs naturally, and we have no control over that. Abortions happen because someone decides to end the pregnancy.

The dooming or damnation doesn’t come from me.
That’s between God and the person who had the abortion.

91 Killgore Trout  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 2:34:15pm

Trash and more trash.

92 reine.de.tout  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 2:35:07pm

And oh hell.

I know most everyone here disagrees with me on my abortion position

There was a time not long ago, however, when I could courteously express it, and folks would at least respect that I have a different belief than they did, not start punching back at me.

Sheesh.

93 Gus  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 2:35:20pm

re: #91 Killgore Trout

Trash and more trash.

Think globally. Act locally.

//

94 Killgore Trout  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 2:35:34pm

Truthers

95 researchok  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 2:36:01pm

re: #83 Obdicut

“Need” according to whom? Aren’t you just saying you’d rather that was their focus?

No, PP is just that- planned parenthood. Abortion is the result of unplanned parenthood.

Sex ed, contraceptives, etc., etc. is key to a healthier society.

96 Killgore Trout  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 2:36:25pm

More truthers

97 wrenchwench  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 2:36:30pm

re: #85 researchok

I think you’re right.

I’m pro choice but I do believe that politics (rather than women’s health) drove the movement early on- and that still resonates. When Hillary Clinton said abortions ought to be legal and rare, she was booed and called a traitor.


If a person states a pro-choice position, but adds some moralizing about one choice and not the other, I have no problem with them being booed. I’d have to see the quote from Hillary to see whether that’s the case here. I know you and I have gone around about that, and probably don’t need to do so again.

98 Gus  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 2:37:50pm

re: #94 Killgore Trout

Truthers

Cute baby!

[Link: www.flickr.com…]

99 ClaudeMonet  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 2:38:02pm

re: #72 reine.de.tout


As for the souls - of course if one believes that the embryos have souls (as I do), then it isn’t the aborted baby who is doomed; it’s the persons who brought about the abortion.

It’s no secret I’m heavily pro-life, and will spend whatever energy I have on promoting alternatives to abortion. I also do not want to see those who would choose abortion, dying or suffering, and therefore prefer to see abortions continue to be legal, because if a person wants an abortion, they will get one, legal or not. And being legal provides safeguards for those who seek the procedure. But I sure would be happy to see a day where no one wanted it - unrealistic, of course. But there you have it.

Well stated, and respectfully submitted. Thanks why you’re la reine. :-)

I’m pro-choice, but I hope no one will ever need an abortion. However, they should be available to be performed legally by doctors trained in the procedures. I’m very pro-adoption, especially when I see the joy adoption has brought to friends who otherwise would have been childless.

In the cases of rape, incest, or medical necessity to save the mother, I’m simply appalled to see people opposed to a safe abortion.

100 calochortus  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 2:38:22pm

re: #92 reine.de.tout

Reine, I do disagree with you, but I respect your position and the fact that you don’t want to make your faith the law of the land. I’m very firmly in the pro-choice camp, but if women have several options and can choose freely among them, I’m all for it. (Pro-choice requires actual choices.)

101 wrenchwench  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 2:40:14pm

re: #92 reine.de.tout

And oh hell.

I know most everyone here disagrees with me on my abortion position

There was a time not long ago, however, when I could courteously express it, and folks would at least respect that I have a different belief than they did, not start punching back at me.

Sheesh.

I appreciate you being here and stating, and restating, your position. We don’t agree, but I have your clearly stated and sincerely held position in mind when I state my own, and it makes me try to be more clear and, I hope, less abrasive.

102 Killgore Trout  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 2:40:52pm

re: #98 Gus 802

Cute baby!

[Link: www.flickr.com…]

Awwwww.

103 Ojoe  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 2:40:55pm

re: #22 dragonfire1981

I do not think there is a good response to that at all.

104 Max  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 2:41:20pm

re: #89 ClaudeMonet

It’s just a jump to the left
And then a step to the right
Put your hands on your hips
And bring your knees in tight
And then the pelvic thrust!

Sounds kind of like Bill Clinton’s Presidency.

105 sattv4u2  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 2:41:57pm

re: #104 Max D. Reinhardt

Sounds kind of like Bill Clinton’s Presidency.

Monica,, is that you!?!?

106 Max  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 2:43:59pm

Earlier today, I told some of my right wing friends that this One Nation Rally was tame compared to the Tea Parties.

I was dead wrong.

Killgore has just touched the tip of the ice berg. The photos depict an ocean of bad craziness from Truthers, to actual Socialists, ANSWER, Bush haters, and foreign policy know-nothings.

107 sattv4u2  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 2:45:19pm

re: #106 Max D. Reinhardt

Earlier today, I told some of my right wing friends that this One Nation Rally was tame compared to the Tea Parties.

I was dead wrong.

Killgore has just touched the tip of the ice berg. The photos depict an ocean of bad craziness from Truthers, to actual Socialists, ANSWER, Bush haters, and foreign policy know-nothings.

KILGORE

Was Scrotum Man there!?!?

108 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 2:45:19pm

re: #90 reine.de.tout

And really, I’m uninterested in getting into a discussion or argument of my beliefs, they are what they are and I’m not going to explain or justify to anyone. I was simply trying to respond to your earlier comment, where you seemed to think people thought the aborted embryoes were doomed. In my mind, they’re not.

I’m not trying to argue about your beliefs— when I was speaking of those who believed that embryos that were aborted were damned, I wasn’t speaking of you— since you don’t believe that. There are, however, large numbers of people who do believe that, who aren’t you. I’m sorry that I didn’t acknowledge that beliefs on what happens to the souls of embryos varies amongst various divisions of Christians. I believe modern Catholic doctrine says, basically, “We don’t know, but we’re hopeful.”

And I wasn’t trying to say that you were damning anyone, what I meant is it is one of the things that makes the characterization of God seem cruel to a non-believer, that he would damn someone for having an abortion.

109 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 2:45:50pm

re: #92 reine.de.tout

And oh hell.

I know most everyone here disagrees with me on my abortion position

There was a time not long ago, however, when I could courteously express it, and folks would at least respect that I have a different belief than they did, not start punching back at me.

Sheesh.

Who is punching at you?

110 ClaudeMonet  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 2:48:13pm

re: #22 dragonfire1981

I would guess no since most people are most concerned about the economy right now. Abortion is further down the list.

I am curious how exactly could a pro choice person sway a pro life person?

Logically, pro lifers feel that all life is created by God and even if a woman is pregnant by a rapist, the baby is a gift from the Lord that should be allowed to live, since it had no control over its circumstances of conception and is therefore innocent.

So how would a pro choice person counter that argument? I’ve thought about this and never came up with a good response.

Here is what I would try, knowing it is useless but doing it anyway—

Prohibiting the victim of a rape from aborting the fetus is a classic example of imposing religion over the law. You are asking the victim of a violent crime to relive that event continually for nine months and to endure pain and stress on top of the stress and pain already suffered. In effect, you are sentencing the victim to more and more certain punishment than the attacker—and how is that the act of a merciful God? How is it the act of a neutral government? How do you put the rights of the innocent fetus over the rights of the innocent mother?

111 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 2:48:34pm

re: #95 researchok

No, PP is just that- planned parenthood. Abortion is the result of unplanned parenthood.

Only if you beg the question by calling people parents at the moment of conception. Which we don’t, even as a culture. People don’t say “I’m a dad!” or “I’m a mom!” when the pregnancy is announced, they say, “I’m going to be a dad!” or “I’m going to be a mom!”.

112 Max  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 2:49:03pm

Nice antisemitism, guys. Look at the sign on the left.

End all US aid to the Racist State of Israel

113 researchok  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 2:49:53pm

re: #97 wrenchwench

If a person states a pro-choice position, but adds some moralizing about one choice and not the other, I have no problem with them being booed. I’d have to see the quote from Hillary to see whether that’s the case here. I know you and I have gone around about that, and probably don’t need to do so again.

See this

There is another link, but as usual, I have no idea where I saved it…

SF brains sometimes.

114 Killgore Trout  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 2:50:42pm

re: #106 Max D. Reinhardt

Earlier today, I told some of my right wing friends that this One Nation Rally was tame compared to the Tea Parties.

I was dead wrong.

Killgore has just touched the tip of the ice berg. The photos depict an ocean of bad craziness from Truthers, to actual Socialists, ANSWER, Bush haters, and foreign policy know-nothings.

There are a few differences worth noting. Today’s rally had no signs threatening violence. It’s a common theme at Tea Parties. There were a few Dem politicians but most of them stayed away. Dem politicians don’t have to answer to Al Sharpton or Harry Belafonte. Republicans must do what Beck and Rush want or else.
Although there were radicals at today’s rally I didn’t see any militants. The Oathkeepers and militias are common at Tea Parties.
Today’s rally was radical and stupid but the Tea Parties are more extreme and potentially a source of violence/terrorism.

115 Killgore Trout  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 2:51:31pm

re: #107 sattv4u2

KILGORE

Was Scrotum Man there!?!?

Nah, I didn’t see him. I didn’t see any Code Pink there today.

116 researchok  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 2:51:53pm

re: #111 Obdicut

Only if you beg the question by calling people parents at the moment of conception. Which we don’t, even as a culture. People don’t say “I’m a dad!” or “I’m a mom!” when the pregnancy is announced, they say, “I’m going to be a dad!” or “I’m going to be a mom!”.

And therein lies the problem. I say send PP into every school and bolster sex ed.

Whatever it takes.

117 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 2:52:07pm

re: #114 Killgore Trout


Today’s rally struck me as useless, and uninformative. The Tea Party/Beck rallies have struck me as dangerous, and disinformative.

118 Killgore Trout  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 2:52:07pm

re: #112 Max D. Reinhardt

Nice antisemitism, guys. Look at the sign on the left.

Nice catch.

119 Killgore Trout  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 2:52:51pm

re: #117 Obdicut

Today’s rally struck me as useless, and uninformative. The Tea Party/Beck rallies have struck me as dangerous, and disinformative.

I agree.

120 Gus  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 2:52:57pm

Ah, the Paris auto show.

[Link: www.flickr.com…]

121 ClaudeMonet  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 2:54:02pm

re: #112 Max D. Reinhardt

Nice antisemitism, guys. Look at the sign on the left.

They’ll tell you that it’s not anti-Semitic, it’s anti-Zionist. It’s a convenient lie on their part. My answer to such garbage is very straightforward—“Don’t give me that crap. I’m not as stupid as you.”

re: #96 Killgore Trout

More truthers

My brother’s an architect. He says that every time someone starts with this crap, he wants to take away their AIA (American Institute of Architects) or comparable engineering society credentials. It’s one of the very few things that make him roll his eyes.

122 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 2:54:25pm

re: #116 researchok

And therein lies the problem. I say send PP into every school and bolster sex ed.

Whatever it takes.

Wait, where lies the question?

People are going to continue to have unplanned pregnancies. Some of those people will continue to want to have abortions. We can reduce the numbers of unplanned pregnancies, but unless we reversed the fertility paradigm— unless you couldn’t become pregnant unless you willed it so— there are always, no matter how hard we educate and how many bushels of condoms are distributed, going to be unwanted pregnancies.

123 Max  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 2:54:40pm

re: #115 Killgore Trout

I haven’t seen any Code Pink loons but ANSWER is playing a very prominent role.

124 sattv4u2  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 2:55:19pm

re: #111 Obdicut

Only if you beg the question by calling people parents at the moment of conception. Which we don’t, even as a culture. People don’t say “I’m a dad!” or “I’m a mom!” when the pregnancy is announced, they say, “I’m going to be a dad!” or “I’m going to be a mom!”.

Then they must be pretty sure it’s going to be a person, not a clump of cells!

125 wrenchwench  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 2:55:41pm

re: #111 Obdicut

Only if you beg the question by calling people parents at the moment of conception. Which we don’t, even as a culture. People don’t say “I’m a dad!” or “I’m a mom!” when the pregnancy is announced, they say, “I’m going to be a dad!” or “I’m going to be a mom!”.

One of my cousins announced on Facebook, “I’m knocked up!”

126 ClaudeMonet  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 2:56:28pm

re: #125 wrenchwench

One of my cousins announced on Facebook, “I’m knocked up!”

Which was a very odd thing for him to say.

127 sattv4u2  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 2:56:50pm

TAKE TWO!

re: #111 Obdicut

Only if you beg the question by calling people parents at the moment of conception. Which we don’t, even as a culture. People don’t say “I’m a dad!” or “I’m a mom!” when the pregnancy is announced, they say, “I’m going to be a dad!” or “I’m going to be a mom!”.


Then they must be pretty sure it’s a person, not a clump of cells!

128 wrenchwench  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 2:57:13pm

re: #113 researchok

See this

There is another link, but as usual, I have no idea where I saved it…

SF brains sometimes.

That doesn’t give me Hillary’s quote, and the link to it didn’t work. It did give me some bullshit from Saletan. What a jerk.

Pro-choicers have tried this for 40 years, but they always run into a fatal objection: Abortion is so ugly that nobody who supports it can look moral. To earn real credibility, they’d have to admit it’s bad. They often walk up to that line, but they always blink.
129 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 2:57:26pm

re: #124 sattv4u2


Then they must be pretty sure it’s going to be a person, not a clump of cells!

What are the seventh through tenth words in that sentence?

130 Amory Blaine  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 2:57:54pm

re: #121 ClaudeMonet

They’ll tell you that it’s not anti-Semitic, it’s anti-Zionist. It’s a convenient lie on their part. My answer to such garbage is very straightforward—“Don’t give me that crap. I’m not as stupid as you.”

re: #96 Killgore Trout

My brother’s an architect. He says that every time someone starts with this crap, he wants to take away their AIA (American Institute of Architects) or comparable engineering society credentials. It’s one of the very few things that make him roll his eyes.

From what I’m seeing of pictures so far, that one sign is the extent.

131 freetoken  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 2:57:59pm

re: #112 Max D. Reinhardt

That seems to be one of the few signs there that is actually racist/offensive. Along with the truthers, that’s pretty much the idiot crowd that shows up for these things. For the most part I don’t see the anti-war signs as offensive.

132 ClaudeMonet  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 2:58:17pm

re: #113 researchok

See this

There is another link, but as usual, I have no idea where I saved it…

SF brains sometimes.

It’s odd to see myself on the same side as Hillary Clinton, but I’m fine with it.

“Safe, legal, rare”—sounds good to me.

133 Ojoe  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 2:58:40pm

re: #121 ClaudeMonet

I’m an architect as well. The “truthers” have their heads up their asses and locked*.

I suppose they like the smell.


*Variation of pilot jargon, “gear up and locked.” My dad, p-38 pilot, used to say of an idiot, “He has his head up and locked,” omitting the word ass, but he explained it to me once.

134 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 2:59:18pm

By the way, in fairness to Reine and all the other good people who don’t want their religious views imposed on others through force of law, I should say:

I think most people who are conceptually ‘pro-life’ don’t tend to protest abortion clinics or do anything else of the sort at all. Only a small, but vocal, minority actually engages in that sort of behavior.

135 sattv4u2  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 3:00:14pm

re: #129 Obdicut

What are the seventh through tenth words in that sentence?

You pass the parse!

136 Ojoe  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 3:00:16pm

re: #134 Obdicut

That is true.

137 ClaudeMonet  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 3:01:57pm

re: #131 freetoken

That seems to be one of the few signs there that is actually racist/offensive. Along with the truthers, that’s pretty much the idiot crowd that shows up for these things. For the most part I don’t see the anti-war signs as offensive.

I don’t find them offensive, either. They may be misguided and/or ignorant, and often too idealistic, but they are not violent, and the current anti-war crowd is a peaceful one.

The ones who really “get it” are the ones who protest whatever policy AND say, “Isn’t it great to live in a country where we can object to the policies of the government and not be jailed or killed for it?”

138 Linden Arden  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 3:02:18pm

The Tea Party people were very effective in expressing their anger all throughout 2009 - mostly April 15 to August.

Yet their fellow Republicans ran things until then so there is no doubt their anger was preemptive in some sort of way.

By mid 2011 the TP will be headed to the same place the Reform Party of the 90’s went to.

139 Gus  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 3:02:23pm

re: #131 freetoken

That seems to be one of the few signs there that is actually racist/offensive. Along with the truthers, that’s pretty much the idiot crowd that shows up for these things. For the most part I don’t see the anti-war signs as offensive.

Seems like the truthers show up at any event.

140 researchok  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 3:02:25pm

re: #122 Obdicut

Wait, where lies the question?

People are going to continue to have unplanned pregnancies. Some of those people will continue to want to have abortions. We can reduce the numbers of unplanned pregnancies, but unless we reversed the fertility paradigm— unless you couldn’t become pregnant unless you willed it so— there are always, no matter how hard we educate and how many bushels of condoms are distributed, going to be unwanted pregnancies.

Yes all true- and those unwanted pregnancies are what needs to be reduced.

PP can make a real difference in that regard.

141 wrenchwench  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 3:02:47pm

re: #113 researchok

See this

There is another link, but as usual, I have no idea where I saved it…

SF brains sometimes.

Oh, whoops, here’s some Hillary quote:

Not this time. Abortion is “a sad, even tragic choice to many, many women,” said Clinton. Then she went further: “There is no reason why government cannot do more to educate and inform and provide assistance so that the choice guaranteed under our constitution either does not ever have to be exercised or only in very rare circumstances.”

I disagree with the emphasis on “sad, tragic”, especially with “many, many women.” It’s irrelevant and often untrue. Yes, we need sex education, but not just to avoid unwanted pregnancy.

142 ClaudeMonet  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 3:03:22pm

re: #133 Ojoe

I’m an architect as well. The “truthers” have their heads up their asses and locked*.

I suppose they like the smell.

*Variation of pilot jargon, “gear up and locked.” My dad, p-38 pilot, used to say of an idiot, “He has his head up and locked,” omitting the word ass, but he explained it to me once.

Very nice. I’m going to use that one. Thanks!

143 researchok  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 3:03:30pm

re: #132 ClaudeMonet

It’s odd to see myself on the same side as Hillary Clinton, but I’m fine with it.

“Safe, legal, rare”—sounds good to me.

See this as well. It is the article I misfield.

144 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 3:05:02pm

re: #140 researchok

Yes all true- and those unwanted pregnancies are what needs to be reduced.

PP can make a real difference in that regard.

I’m sorry, I’m really confused by why you keep saying ‘need’ over and over.

It is a good thing to reduce the unwanted pregnancies. A chief good.

It will never, however, reach the point where there are no unwanted pregnancies. And we’re definitely not getting there any time soon. So Planned Parenthood’s work on keeping abortion an accessible legal option is not in any way a deviation from their mission.

145 wrenchwench  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 3:05:36pm

re: #143 researchok

See this as well. It is the article I misfield.

That’s the article that set me off last time. Stupid piece by someone I don’t respect (based only on reading this piece).

146 avanti  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 3:05:38pm

Another outrage from the American Family association. A gay group ordered cup cakes with rainbow frosting and the store owner says the Bible forbids it.


Cup cakes.

147 researchok  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 3:05:57pm

re: #141 wrenchwench

Oh, whoops, here’s some Hillary quote:

I disagree with the emphasis on “sad, tragic”, especially with “many, many women.” It’s irrelevant and often untrue. Yes, we need sex education, but not just to avoid unwanted pregnancy.

We shall agree to disagree on this one. Overall, I guess I believe fewer abortions are better.

More here (I found the link)

148 ClaudeMonet  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 3:06:00pm

re: #139 Gus 802

Seems like the truthers show up at any event.

True. They show up whether the rally is way right or way left.

149 wrenchwench  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 3:06:00pm

re: #144 Obdicut

Double ding.

150 reine.de.tout  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 3:07:34pm

Hi,all.
Not feeling well today, and I think I may have perhaps overreacted earlier.
Apologies to all.

151 researchok  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 3:07:48pm

re: #146 avanti

Another outrage from the American Family association. A gay group ordered cup cakes with rainbow frosting and the store owner says the Bible forbids it.

Cup cakes.

All the moron had to say was ‘I can’t fill the order for the day you requested’.

I submit he was looking for the attention.

152 Jimmah  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 3:08:03pm

UK Centre for Intelligent Design claims it will focus on science, not religion

. Creationism in this country has its cheerleaders in museums, schools and zoos, but what of intelligent design? In Glasgow, a new institution hopes to fill that gap.

Ugh.

153 PhillyPretzel  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 3:08:28pm

re: #150 reine.de.tout
That is okay. We all have days when we do not feel good.

154 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 3:09:01pm

re: #150 reine.de.tout

Hi,all.
Not feeling well today, and I think I may have perhaps overreacted earlier.
Apologies to all.

Well, let me apologize again for not being clear about how many different views and positions there are on the ‘pro-life’ field. I should have stated what I was saying more clearly, since this is such a contentious topic.

I am also fighting a bad-ass cold. But my awesome wife made me homemade chicken noodle soup.

155 wrenchwench  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 3:09:06pm

re: #147 researchok

We shall agree to disagree on this one. Overall, I guess I believe fewer abortions are better.

More here (I found the link)

I agree that fewer are better, but I don’t think any are bad. Almost.

And my comment on that article is above.

156 researchok  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 3:09:28pm

re: #145 wrenchwench

That’s the article that set me off last time. Stupid piece by someone I don’t respect (based only on reading this piece).

157 reine.de.tout  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 3:09:30pm

re: #154 Obdicut

Well, let me apologize again for not being clear about how many different views and positions there are on the ‘pro-life’ field. I should have stated what I was saying more clearly, since this is such a contentious topic.

I am also fighting a bad-ass cold. But my awesome wife made me homemade chicken noodle soup.

She is awesome indeed.
And my cool kid baked an apple pie.
Yum.

158 Max  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 3:09:43pm

Actual Socialists at the One Nation Rally.

And more.

159 sattv4u2  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 3:10:25pm

re: #144 Obdicut

I’m sorry, I’m really confused by why you keep saying ‘need’ over and over

Whats to be confused about?
You don’t think the number of unwanted pregs needs to be reduced? He’s not saying they can be eliminated 100%

160 researchok  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 3:10:54pm

re: #145 wrenchwench

That’s the article that set me off last time. Stupid piece by someone I don’t respect (based only on reading this piece).

We can disagree- it isn’t a deal killer, you know?

161 wrenchwench  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 3:11:39pm

re: #160 researchok

We can disagree- it isn’t a deal killer, you know?

Yep. I still gave you an upding. Somewhere up there.

162 Gus  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 3:12:39pm

re: #158 Max D. Reinhardt

Actual Socialists at the One Nation Rally.

And more.

Albert Einstein was a socialist.

163 researchok  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 3:12:57pm

re: #155 wrenchwench

I agree that fewer are better, but I don’t think any are bad. Almost.

And my comment on that article is above.

See? We don’t disagree that much!

Further, I believe many abortions are necessary for a myriad of reasons.

164 Linden Arden  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 3:13:59pm

re: #158 Max D. Reinhardt

Actual Socialists at the One Nation Rally.

And more.

Socialists are wasting their time.

When the top capitalists are all Obama supporters then you know they have nowhere to go.

165 researchok  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 3:14:18pm

re: #162 Gus 802

Albert Einstein was a socialist.

So God did play dice!

//

166 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 3:14:53pm

re: #162 Gus 802


As was George Orwell and Murray Kempton (who was friends with William F. Buckley— imagine that, ideological adversaries who were friends!).

Murray Kempton is the best journalist most people have never heard of.

I highly recommend his book:


Rebellions, Perversities and Main Events

The piece on the Ali-Liston fight alone is sheer brilliance.

167 Max  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 3:15:05pm

re: #162 Gus 802

Albert Einstein was a socialist.

He came from a time before Socialism left one hundred million corpses in its path.

168 Jimmah  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 3:15:34pm

re: #162 Gus 802

Albert Einstein was a socialist.

And a relativist.

169 ClaudeMonet  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 3:16:09pm

re: #145 wrenchwench

That’s the article that set me off last time. Stupid piece by someone I don’t respect (based only on reading this piece).

I read the article and didn’t find it stupid at all. The writer attributed “safe, legal, and rare” to Bill Clinton rather than Hillary, which may be in error, but otherwise not bad IMO.

170 sattv4u2  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 3:16:25pm

re: #168 Jimmah

And a relativist.

I’m sure he had many relatives

Cousins,,, nieces ,,, aunts,,,,
/

171 Gus  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 3:16:37pm

re: #167 Max D. Reinhardt

He came from a time before Socialism left one hundred million corpses in its path.

That was from Communism not socialism. Besides. If we’re going to bring up history why stop there?

172 calochortus  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 3:17:01pm

The fewer abortions that women feel a need for, the better. There will always be a medical need, for the mother’s well being, or because the fetus has no chance for any sort of life (not well phrased, but I mean an anencephalic baby or some horrible genetic syndrome)
Then we have girls (and a few actual women old enough to know better) who believe if you prepare to have sex its bad or sinful, if it just happens, well… They need an education. One of the better things I told the kids was: If you can’t talk about what you’re going to be doing with your partner, you’re probably not ready to do it. (Goes with don’t go to bed with someone you don’t want to wake up next to.) One of them told me later it was really good advise.

173 Max  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 3:17:28pm

Before anyone gives me the talking point that “real Communism has never been tried” let me recommend the Black Book of Communism. It’s a real eye-opener.

174 Gus  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 3:17:37pm

What are we going to start promoting McCarthyism here?

175 Gus  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 3:17:56pm

It’s a free country. Read your 1st Amendment again.

176 sattv4u2  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 3:18:16pm

re: #174 Gus 802

What are we going to start promoting McCarthyism here?


Jenny McCarthyism????

,,,, blech !

177 Max  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 3:18:55pm

re: #171 Gus 802

That was from Communism not socialism. Besides. If we’re going to bring up history why stop there?

Since Marx believed that Socialism was the stepping stone to Communism, that would mean that that stepping stone was made of one hundred million people’s bones. I don’t get what point you’re trying to make except apologizing for Socialism’s past crimes.

178 researchok  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 3:19:49pm

re: #174 Gus 802

What are we going to start promoting McCarthyism here?

Hey I saw the old tapes.

I liked Charlie.

179 Gus  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 3:19:59pm

re: #177 Max D. Reinhardt

Since Marx believed that Socialism was the stepping stone to Communism, that would mean that that stepping stone was made of one hundred million people’s bones. I don’t get what point you’re trying to make except apologizing for Socialism’s past crimes.

Seriously now? You said this?

I don’t get what point you’re trying to make except apologizing for Socialism’s past crimes.

I see where you’re coming from.

Good luck with that.

180 Linden Arden  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 3:20:08pm

re: #174 Gus 802

What are we going to start promoting McCarthyism here?

Anne Coulter loves her some McCarthyism. She says he got a raw deal for all his paranoid kookiness.

181 PhillyPretzel  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 3:20:10pm

re: #175 Gus 802 You are correct.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

182 Max  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 3:20:20pm

re: #174 Gus 802

What are we going to start promoting McCarthyism here?

McCarthyism? This book was written in 1998, dude.

183 wrenchwench  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 3:20:50pm

re: #169 ClaudeMonet

I read the article and didn’t find it stupid at all. The writer attributed “safe, legal, and rare” to Bill Clinton rather than Hillary, which may be in error, but otherwise not bad IMO.

Here are the parts I call stupid:

But mainly she will tell you how sad she is, how she wished she hadn’t had to make that “choice,” how unpleasant the procedure was. She is more likely depressed than defiant

[…]

On my way, I passed piles of those pro-choice signs, and a small group of protesters standing silently on a street corner. They were holding signs that read “I regret my abortion.”

That, I thought, would be a good starting point for Democratic politicians. It would allow them to acknowledge that every woman would rather not have an abortion, and that might enable them to talk more genuinely about the impossible situations women who consider abortion face. It might humanize the mothers, and allow Democrats to argue for all the health benefits to women and their families when abortion is legal, without sounding so darn cheerful about it.

184 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 3:21:00pm

re: #177 Max D. Reinhardt

Since Marx believed that Socialism was the stepping stone to Communism, that would mean that that stepping stone was made of one hundred million people’s bones. I don’t get what point you’re trying to make except apologizing for Socialism’s past crimes.

Dude, back the fuck down.

You are also conflating Marxist-Leninist Socialism with Democratic Socialism, for no good reason.

185 Gus  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 3:21:19pm

re: #182 Max D. Reinhardt

McCarthyism? This book was written in 1998, dude.

Too bad. There were socialists there. Deal with it. This isn’t some Middle Eastern country.

186 ClaudeMonet  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 3:21:25pm

re: #171 Gus 802

That was from Communism not socialism. Besides. If we’re going to bring up history why stop there?

Socialism ignores the fact that unless you think that everyone thinks alike and knows what’s best, someone has to be in charge. Communism takes that to, “The Party knows best and is in charge”. Orwell certainly saw what happened; hence, 1984 and Animal Farm. It’s a lovely ideal, but horrid in practice.

187 Max  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 3:22:14pm

re: #185 Gus 802

Too bad. There were socialists there. Deal with it. This isn’t some Middle Eastern country.

I never said that they didn’t have the right to be there or to speak.

188 Gus  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 3:22:50pm

re: #187 Max D. Reinhardt

I never said that they didn’t have the right to be there or to speak.

And I was “apologizing for Socialism’s past crimes”?

189 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 3:23:11pm

re: #186 ClaudeMonet

Actually, you have that backwards. Marxist-Leninist Socialism is a self-acknowledged party-dictatorial state that’s stated goal is to work towards the Communist non-state.

190 Killgore Trout  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 3:23:14pm

Karl Pilkington in An Idiot Abroad: First Look Sneak Peek Trailer

Youtube Video

It’s a pretty damn funny series.

191 researchok  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 3:23:32pm

This better not end before the popcorn is ready.

192 Gus  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 3:24:10pm

re: #191 researchok

This better not end before the popcorn is ready.

I got some microwave popcorn but my teeth! My teeth!

Nothing like a late afternoon scrap.

193 Max  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 3:24:59pm

re: #188 Gus 802

And I was “apologizing for Socialism’s past crimes”?

It was a typo on my part (which I apologize for), I meant to say “making excuses for Socialism’s failures. Anyway, I don’t see this as calling to silence you

194 researchok  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 3:25:15pm

re: #192 Gus 802

I got some microwave popcorn but my teeth! My teeth!

Nothing like a late afternoon scrap.

I hear that.

How’s life, by the way? I was out of orbit for the last week and a half.

Work.

195 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 3:25:39pm

Newsflash: Democratic Socialism in Sweden and Denmark turns out to be different than Marxist-Leninist Socialism in the USSR.

“We knew this already” complain those who pay attention.

196 Linden Arden  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 3:25:48pm

Using “socialism” as an attack on Dems is the new Godwin Law.

Socialism is the government ownership of production and last I checked it wasn’t Obama who seized Washington Mutual and Bear Stearns or who wrote a $700 billion check to buy bank stock under the guise of “TARP”.

197 researchok  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 3:26:21pm

I dunno.

There’s something fishy about those Danes…

/

198 Gus  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 3:26:46pm

re: #193 Max D. Reinhardt

It was a typo on my part (which I apologize for), I meant to say “making excuses for Socialism’s failures. Anyway, I don’t see this as calling to silence you

Well. I don’t see the point in getting worked up over a bunch of academic or socialist students holding up some signage. Odds are they’ll never live in a socialist system. Even though we do have socialist elements in our form of government. I didn’t meant to say YOU were trying to silence ME. I didn’t see it that way.

199 ClaudeMonet  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 3:27:00pm

re: #183 wrenchwench

Here are the parts I call stupid:

[…]

Did you expect a liberal to not get mawkish and self-defeating?

The pro-choice folks had to be strident in order to achieve their breakthrough victories. Their error was in not becoming more accommodating, more inclusive, more hand-outstretched after the judicial war was initially won. While some opponents will never respect you, a hand extended in friendship by an enemy after the battle can win your respect, at least to the point of grudging cooperation.

You have to be partisan to win. You should be multi-partisan to govern.

200 darthstar  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 3:27:25pm

Got to Banjo’s favorite cove next to Bean Hollow (between Half Moon Bay and Santa Cruz) only to find a dead 40ft whale wedged into it (has a natural rock break line, so the whale had to have washed in during high tide). Well, Fozzie found the sand deliciously stinky, and started rolling around as I chased him with leash to rein him in and stop him, but I was too late…he was caked in slimy sand…and oh, after three days of high heat, that whale was putting off some serious stink. Well, I took the boys back to HMB so Banjo could have his swim (with the intention of throwing Fozzie off the rocks into the water a few times to try and rinse him), as the damage was done, and happened to spot a van advertising a mobile dog washing service as I drove through town. I called the number on the van, the gal said she wasn’t busy at the moment, and I brought her my whale-scented dog and left him with her while Banjo and I ran errands. An hour (and $65 well spent dollars later), I got Fozzie back clean, soft, and smelling like a rose.

Oh, and I picked up a big jug of Nature’s Miracle, which I used to wash the dog’s seat cover…(yes, he was leashed to the back seat so he couldn’t roll around on the leather).

Thank goodness for that van…

201 researchok  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 3:27:45pm

re: #198 Gus 802

Well. I don’t see the point in getting worked up over a bunch of academic or socialist students holding up some signage. Odds are they’ll never live in a socialist system. Even though we do have socialist elements in our form of government. I didn’t meant to say YOU were trying to silence ME. I didn’t see it that way.

‘Starbucks Socialists’.

I love this place.

202 Gus  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 3:28:26pm

re: #201 researchok

‘Starbucks Socialists’.

I love this place.

“Hello dad? Yeah, can I borrow some money to get back home from the rally?”

//

203 ClaudeMonet  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 3:29:11pm

re: #189 Obdicut

Actually, you have that backwards. Marxist-Leninist Socialism is a self-acknowledged party-dictatorial state that’s stated goal is to work towards the Communist non-state.

Funny how they never made progress “towards the Communist non-state”. Power will do that to people.

204 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 3:29:35pm

re: #202 Gus 802

Half the preppie fucks at my high school who eventually got jobs in their dad’s companies were ‘socialists’ or ‘anarchists’.

Actually, I guess it’s okay for an anarchist to depend on parental privilege. Why not?

205 Glenn Beck's Grand Unifying Theory of Obdicut  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 3:30:28pm

re: #203 ClaudeMonet

Funny how they never made progress “towards the Communist non-state”. Power will do that to people.

And let me therefore recommend the best book ever written— rather on that subject:

The Master and Margarita

206 wrenchwench  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 3:30:29pm

re: #199 ClaudeMonet

Did you expect a liberal to not get mawkish and self-defeating?

The pro-choice folks had to be strident in order to achieve their breakthrough victories. Their error was in not becoming more accommodating, more inclusive, more hand-outstretched after the judicial war was initially won. While some opponents will never respect you, a hand extended in friendship by an enemy after the battle can win your respect, at least to the point of grudging cooperation.

You have to be partisan to win. You should be multi-partisan to govern.

The war is still on. Nobody surrendered. They lost a battle.

207 Shiplord Kirel  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 3:30:58pm

re: #204 Obdicut

Half the preppie fucks at my high school who eventually got jobs in their dad’s companies were ‘socialists’ or ‘anarchists’.

Actually, I guess it’s okay for an anarchist to depend on parental privilege. Why not?

Supply side Marxists.

208 Linden Arden  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 3:31:22pm

re: #204 Obdicut

Half the preppie fucks at my high school who eventually got jobs in their dad’s companies were ‘socialists’ or ‘anarchists’.

Actually, I guess it’s okay for an anarchist to depend on parental privilege. Why not?

Sounds like the Koch brothers who inherited all their money and now promote conservatives and libertarians 24/7.

209 researchok  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 3:32:59pm

re: #208 Linden Arden

Sounds like the Koch brothers who inherited all their money and now promote conservatives and libertarians 24/7.

Hey- Even Abbie Hoffman turned.

What is this world coming to?

210 Linden Arden  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 3:34:07pm

re: #209 researchok

Hey- Even Abbie Hoffman turned.

What is this world coming to?

He did?

I barely remember ‘Steal This Book’ - best book title from my youth.

211 Gus  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 3:34:39pm

re: #208 Linden Arden

Sounds like the Koch brothers who inherited all their money and now promote conservatives and libertarians 24/7.

The father Fred Koch, was a founding member of the John Birch Society.

212 ClaudeMonet  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 3:34:43pm

re: #206 wrenchwench

The war is still on. Nobody surrendered. They lost a battle.

I never mentioned surrender.

I admire the old Roman method. Defeat your enemy in battle, show respect for him, co-opt him into being part of the system. Had the pro-choice folks who did the grunt work up through Roe v. Wade been able to make themselves adopt such a respectful way of dealing with their enemies, they might not have helped create the current “war”. We might have had more people saying, “It’s the law of the land now. We have to deal with it instead of fighting it.”

213 Linden Arden  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 3:37:33pm

re: #211 Gus 802

The father Fred Koch, was a founding member of the John Birch Society.

Nuts fall close to the roots.

214 researchok  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 3:37:47pm

re: #210 Linden Arden

He did?

I barely remember ‘Steal This Book’ - best book title from my youth.

He wore ties at the end.

Seriously.

215 ClaudeMonet  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 3:37:51pm

re: #204 Obdicut

Half the preppie fucks at my high school who eventually got jobs in their dad’s companies were ‘socialists’ or ‘anarchists’.

Actually, I guess it’s okay for an anarchist to depend on parental privilege. Why not?

Sounds like some of the guys with whom I went to college. For them, college was four years of drinking, abusing women, and “Fighting The Man”, followed by going home to BE “The Man”, as they always knew would happen. Neanderthals badly masquerading as progressives.

216 Gus  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 3:38:06pm

Doing some reading here. David Ben-Gurion was a socialist and a member of Poale Zion (Workers of Zion) which was a Marxist group.

217 ClaudeMonet  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 3:38:52pm

re: #216 Gus 802

Doing some reading here. David Ben-Gurion was a socialist and a member of Poale Zion (Workers of Zion) which was a Marxist group.

He got better. He saw that Marxism was a dead end, but that some socialist ideas were workable.

218 Gus  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 3:39:09pm

re: #216 Gus 802

Doing some reading here. David Ben-Gurion was a socialist and a member of Poale Zion (Workers of Zion) which was a Marxist group.

Here he is with Einstein.

Image: einst_22.jpg

219 calochortus  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 3:39:51pm

re: #212 ClaudeMonet

I think you’re wrong. Its not about how pro-choice people have dealt with the situation any more than pro-choice folks were happy before Roe because the anti-abortion folks were nice.

220 wrenchwench  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 3:40:12pm

re: #212 ClaudeMonet

I never mentioned surrender.

I admire the old Roman method. Defeat your enemy in battle, show respect for him, co-opt him into being part of the system. Had the pro-choice folks who did the grunt work up through Roe v. Wade been able to make themselves adopt such a respectful way of dealing with their enemies, they might not have helped create the current “war”. We might have had more people saying, “It’s the law of the land now. We have to deal with it instead of fighting it.”

I see what you’re saying, but if there’s no surrender and no defeat, and the enemy is still trying to set you back to the dark ages, there’s no opportunity for respect. I can’t blame the war on the pro-choicers. I see it as a defensive war.

221 First As Tragedy, Then As Farce  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 3:40:27pm

Yesterday, I thought I’d give my dog a treat, so I bought a tiny can of “gourmet” canned food and put it in with his usual kibble last night. In retaliation, he’s been farting unspeakably ghastly atrocities all day long. Gah! :(

222 agnoton  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 3:40:28pm

I really can’t believe these anti-abortion hardliners are serious. I mean, do they think there should be a police investigation every time a woman has a miscarriage?

223 researchok  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 3:41:07pm

re: #218 Gus 802

Here he is with Einstein.

Image: einst_22.jpg

Not a lot of good barbers in Israel, I guess.

//

224 Gus  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 3:41:11pm

re: #217 ClaudeMonet

He got better. He saw that Marxism was a dead end, but that some socialist ideas were workable.

Socialism was very popular at the turn of the century (19th-20th).

225 Linden Arden  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 3:43:30pm

re: #221 negativ

Yesterday, I thought I’d give my dog a treat, so I bought a tiny can of “gourmet” canned food and put it in with his usual kibble last night. In retaliation, he’s been farting unspeakably ghastly atrocities all day long. Gah! :(

I bought my dog some of that Beneful Gourmet Beef Stew.

Its the best looking beef stew I’ve ever seen - very little liquid. I was tempted to eat it myself but didn’t want to deprive the little guy of HIS food.

226 researchok  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 3:44:01pm

re: #224 Gus 802

Socialism was very popular at the turn of the century (19th-20th).

It’s like a car.

A lot depends on who is driving.

227 ClaudeMonet  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 3:44:20pm

re: #219 calochortus

I think you’re wrong. Its not about how pro-choice people have dealt with the situation any more than pro-choice folks were happy before Roe because the anti-abortion folks were nice.

Oh, the anti-abortion (or pro-life) people were rarely nice, but that’s not the point. Properly extended, a hand extended in honor and with respect can become a handshake of new understanding. At the very least, it creates the impression that one can disagree but remain civil.

It doesn’t have to be all slash and burn, scorched earth, total victory or total defeat. Men like Buckley and Kempton understood the idea of “honorable opposition”.

228 Stanley Sea  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 3:46:23pm

re: #212 ClaudeMonet

I never mentioned surrender.

I admire the old Roman method. Defeat your enemy in battle, show respect for him, co-opt him into being part of the system. Had the pro-choice folks who did the grunt work up through Roe v. Wade been able to make themselves adopt such a respectful way of dealing with their enemies, they might not have helped create the current “war”. We might have had more people saying, “It’s the law of the land now. We have to deal with it instead of fighting it.”

Don’t agree on 2 points. The anti-choice folks want to take something away, bottom line we’re not going back there, and second, I don’t think the pro-choice people treat them disrespectfully.

229 wrenchwench  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 3:47:22pm

re: #222 agnoton

I really can’t believe these anti-abortion hardliners are serious. I mean, do they think there should be a police investigation every time a woman has a miscarriage?

They don’t say so now. No way to say they won’t in the future.

230 Linden Arden  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 3:47:51pm

On abortion - I personally believe the culture wars divide us more than anything else.

Holy shit! the ending of the LSU -Tenn game was crazy!

231 ClaudeMonet  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 3:50:21pm

re: #202 Gus 802

“Hello dad? Yeah, can I borrow some money to get back home from the rally?”

//

In my youth, when other kids asked to “borrow” money from their parents, it meant “please give me money”. With my folks, “borrow” meant “borrow”. They expected that money back, and damned soon. ;-) Have I mentioned how smart my parents were?

re: #200 darthstar

Great story. Dog and van are non-stinky now?

re: #221 negativ

Another great dog story. Great counterpoint to darthstar’s anecdote.re: #201 researchok

‘Starbucks Socialists’.

I love this place.

That’s a great term. I spent a lot of time in “coffeehouses” in college, then I grew up.

232 calochortus  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 3:51:02pm

re: #227 ClaudeMonet

I understand honorable opposition. However, you need to understand that abortion wasn’t always illegal, a woman’s right to control her own body was taken away and we have to some extent been able to get that control back. While I can respect people who disagree with me, it will not cause me to think that maybe it would be OK if abortion were outlawed again. By the same token, if someone else believes abortion is murder, I don’t think the fact that I’m a nice person and respect them will be enough to make them say “Oh, go ahead”.

233 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 3:51:58pm

re: #231 ClaudeMonet

That’s a great term. I spent a lot of time in “coffeehouses” in college, then I grew up.

I have so little in common with what “normal” people did in college, hahah

I sat in my room and made stuff, same as I do now, didn’t go out much, didn’t drink, didn’t hang out in the “quad” or whatever

234 First As Tragedy, Then As Farce  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 3:52:21pm

re: #222 agnoton

I really can’t believe these anti-abortion hardliners are serious. I mean, do they think there should be a police investigation every time a woman has a miscarriage?

Yes. They want control over the circumstances of your conception, your birth, and (as the Terri Schiavo case showed) your death as well, because they’re in favor of small government and deregulation.

235 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 3:53:56pm

re: #222 agnoton

I really can’t believe these anti-abortion hardliners are serious. I mean, do they think there should be a police investigation every time a woman has a miscarriage?

This has been my argument for years against the sorts of pro-life people who seem to have zero understanding of law and yet take these absolutist positions. That every miscarriage is a potential homicide. Imagine what the police workload of that would look like!

236 ClaudeMonet  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 3:54:53pm

re: #232 calochortus

I understand honorable opposition. However, you need to understand that abortion wasn’t always illegal, a woman’s right to control her own body was taken away and we have to some extent been able to get that control back. While I can respect people who disagree with me, it will not cause me to think that maybe it would be OK if abortion were outlawed again. By the same token, if someone else believes abortion is murder, I don’t think the fact that I’m a nice person and respect them will be enough to make them say “Oh, go ahead”.

The old-time liberal in me thinks that communication may not be the answer, but it may lead to less intense fighting. You don’t have to love thy neighbor, you don’t have to like him/her, but things in the neighborhood will be a great deal better if you can respect each other and talk to each other, if only about how to patch the sidewalk.

237 Souliren  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 3:55:30pm

It is my personal view that a woman should be able to have an abortion on her own authority without even giving a reason. I think the authority of the state stops at the epidermis.

However, I have more respect for folks who hold the view that all abortion is murder, including rape and incest than I do for the people who hold that some abortions should be permitted and others not.

238 darthstar  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 3:57:23pm

The magic number for the Giants remains 1. One more game to go. Either win the division or let San Diego tie and face a one game playoff to see who stays home for the playoffs.

Giants baseball…torture!

239 Stanley Sea  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 3:59:00pm

re: #238 darthstar

The magic number for the Giants remains 1. One more game to go. Either win the division or let San Diego tie and face a one game playoff to see who stays home for the playoffs.

Giants baseball…torture!

Padres baseball - ditto. We BLEW it this year. I always give up.

240 ClaudeMonet  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 3:59:47pm

re: #234 negativ

Yes. They want control over the circumstances of your conception, your birth, and (as the Terri Schiavo case showed) your death as well, because they’re in favor of small government and deregulation.

And from there, it’s not far to where you work, where you’re allowed to worship if at all, what you eat, what you hear and see, where you live…

It’s about power and control. Whether you call if fascism or communism is your call.

241 calochortus  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 3:59:56pm

Utah criminalizes miscarriage

242 Stanley Sea  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 4:00:39pm

re: #241 calochortus

Utah criminalizes miscarriage

Dark ages here we come! Well, not on my watch.

243 First As Tragedy, Then As Farce  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 4:00:54pm

re: #200 darthstar

Oh, and I picked up a big jug of Nature’s Miracle, which I used to wash the dog’s seat cover…(yes, he was leashed to the back seat so he couldn’t roll around on the leather).

I’m not the type to go around recommending products to people as though I’m auditioning for a commercial, but Nature’s Miracle really is some of the best stuff on earth. At one time I lived in a house with -> 5

244 darthstar  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 4:02:14pm

re: #243 negativ

I’m not the type to go around recommending products to people as though I’m auditioning for a commercial, but Nature’s Miracle really is some of the best stuff on earth. At one time I lived in a house with -> 5

It is good stuff, and no, I don’t recommend products as a general rule either, but NM is a life-saver.

245 Gus  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 4:02:33pm

re: #241 calochortus

Utah criminalizes miscarriage

08 March 2010, Governor Vetoed

[Link: www.le.state.ut.us…]

246 ClaudeMonet  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 4:03:13pm

re: #238 darthstar

The magic number for the Giants remains 1. One more game to go. Either win the division or let San Diego tie and face a one game playoff to see who stays home for the playoffs.

Giants baseball…torture!

re: #239 Stanley Sea

Padres baseball - ditto. We BLEW it this year. I always give up.

Don’t give up hope, either of you. You’re both not quite dead, especially if the Braves lose tonight (4-0 Phils last I checked). In that case, it could be both Padres and Giants, Giants and Braves, Giants with a Braves-Padres playoff for the wild card, or two playoffs!

And even if your team doesn’t make it, wasn’t it a hell of a ride? It beats being a Pirates fan like me. ;-)

247 First As Tragedy, Then As Farce  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 4:04:01pm

re: #243 negativ

I’m not the type to go around recommending products to people as though I’m auditioning for a commercial, but Nature’s Miracle really is some of the best stuff on earth. At one time I lived in a house with -> 5

bad brackets. pimf.

never mind.

tl;dr - nature’s miracle works, so you should buy some. The end.

248 Gus  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 4:06:25pm

re: #245 Gus 802

08 March 2010, Governor Vetoed

[Link: www.le.state.ut.us…]

Here’s the full chronology of that bill:

[Link: www.le.state.ut.us…]

249 HoosierHoops  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 4:06:37pm

re: #230 Linden Arden

On abortion - I personally believe the culture wars divide us more than anything else.

Holy shit! the ending of the LSU -Tenn game was crazy!

Crazy? Crazy? You don’t know crazy.. I just got back from the Oklahoma Texas game at a bar from Campus….
I have been at games at the NBA..Championship Games, I have been to NFL games including The SuperBowl..I have been to games of all sorts…
I have never seen fans so Dedicated to OU football in my life…These folks are absolutely insane for OU…I have never seen such fans..I know all the cheers now…I was leading cheers during halftime in my White Manning Jersey…And they loved me..I love it here..I have never in my life seen such dedicated fans in my life…I’ve been to the World Series and those fans were Comatose compared to OU fans.. I’m going to love it here

250 sattv4u2  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 4:07:41pm

re: #238 darthstar

re: #239 Stanley Sea

re: #246 ClaudeMonet

Don’t give up ANY of you

My father is a lifelong Boston Red Sox fan. He had to wait until he was 80 to see them win a World Series

he had to wait till he was

251 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 4:08:04pm

re: #249 HoosierHoops

Crazy? Crazy? You don’t know crazy.. I just got back from the Oklahoma Texas game at a bar from Campus…
I have been at games at the NBA..Championship Games, I have been to NFL games including The SuperBowl..I have been to games of all sorts…
I have never seen fans so Dedicated to OU football in my life…These folks are absolutely insane for OU…I have never seen such fans..I know all the cheers now…I was leading cheers during halftime in my White Manning Jersey…And they loved me..I love it here..I have never in my life seen such dedicated fans in my life…I’ve been to the World Series and those fans were Comatose compared to OU fans.. I’m going to love it here

Don’t drink the water… you’ll start drawling and have an unnatural urge to learn to dance the Electric Slide.

252 calochortus  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 4:09:40pm

re: #245 Gus 802

08 March 2010, Governor Vetoed

[Link: www.le.state.ut.us…]

Thanks, I thought he might have, but couldn’t immediately find the reference. I’m kind of multitasking here…

253 HoosierHoops  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 4:10:21pm

re: #251 Walter L. Newton

Don’t drink the water… you’ll start drawling and have an unnatural urge to learn to dance the Electric Slide.

I’m a hell of a dancer..I can do the electric slide in my sleep

254 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 4:12:17pm

re: #253 HoosierHoops

I’m a hell of a dancer..I can do the electric slide in my sleep

The only thing crazier is attending a frat party in the evening after the game. When I was in Dallas in the 80’s, my band “Jett” got booked to play Norman one Sat. after a game for a frat.

One hell of a party.

255 Stanley Sea  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 4:12:31pm

re: #249 HoosierHoops

Crazy? Crazy? You don’t know crazy.. I just got back from the Oklahoma Texas game at a bar from Campus…
I have been at games at the NBA..Championship Games, I have been to NFL games including The SuperBowl..I have been to games of all sorts…
I have never seen fans so Dedicated to OU football in my life…These folks are absolutely insane for OU…I have never seen such fans..I know all the cheers now…I was leading cheers during halftime in my White Manning Jersey…And they loved me..I love it here..I have never in my life seen such dedicated fans in my life…I’ve been to the World Series and those fans were Comatose compared to OU fans.. I’m going to love it here

LOVE IT!!!!!!!

T minus 48 for me.

256 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 4:12:36pm

re: #253 HoosierHoops

I’m a hell of a dancer..I can do the electric slide in my sleep

TMI :)

257 Gus  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 4:12:41pm

re: #252 calochortus

Thanks, I thought he might have, but couldn’t immediately find the reference. I’m kind of multitasking here…

Yeah. That bill was the topic of discussion early this year. Then we learned it was vetoed. There was an attempt to override the veto but I guess it never found enough support. There was another odd anti-abortion bill that came out of Utah that the governor vetoed. Came as a surprise to some because Gary Herbert is both a Republican and a Mormon and his veto was counter intuitive. Of course not so much of a surprise because Huntsman was also a free thinker.

258 ClaudeMonet  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 4:16:18pm

re: #249 HoosierHoops

Crazy? Crazy? You don’t know crazy.. I just got back from the Oklahoma Texas game at a bar from Campus…
I have been at games at the NBA..Championship Games, I have been to NFL games including The SuperBowl..I have been to games of all sorts…
I have never seen fans so Dedicated to OU football in my life…These folks are absolutely insane for OU…I have never seen such fans..I know all the cheers now…I was leading cheers during halftime in my White Manning Jersey…And they loved me..I love it here..I have never in my life seen such dedicated fans in my life…I’ve been to the World Series and those fans were Comatose compared to OU fans.. I’m going to love it here

Just wait until the first close loss to a big rival. The flip side of the coin.

As you’ve just found out, Sooner fans are passionate. Part of that is because they don’t have much else to do with their time other than eat, sleep, drink, screw, and pretend to study. Part of it, even on campus, is that many Okies aren’t that well equipped to do much else.

Oklahoma seasons—

Football
Post-football
Spring practice
Green lawns (late March-Memorial Day)
Scorched earth
Football practice

The Oklahoma schools have often excelled at baseball, basketball, and/or wrestling. But those are nothing compared to football.

Oh, don’t forget to try some HS football. Same thing, real “Friday Night Lights” stuff.

259 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 4:18:59pm

Work… 6-12 midnight… bb sometime.

260 Gus  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 4:19:29pm

re: #194 researchok

I hear that.

How’s life, by the way? I was out of orbit for the last week and a half.

Work.

Oops. Missed this. Same old thing on my end which is OK since I have a roof over my head. Nothing new other than that and the aches and pains.

Work!

261 researchok  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 4:20:53pm

re: #260 Gus 802

Oops. Missed this. Same old thing on my end which is OK since I have a roof over my head. Nothing new other than that and the aches and pains.

Work!

You’re getting old.

Eat a massive burrito. You’ve got nothing to lose and you’ll feel great.

262 ClaudeMonet  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 4:21:00pm

re: #250 sattv4u2

re: #239 Stanley Sea

re: #246 ClaudeMonet

Don’t give up ANY of you

My father is a lifelong Boston Red Sox fan. He had to wait until he was 80 to see them win a World Series

he had to wait till he was

I haven’t given up. I still have memories of 1971 and 1979. However, there are kids in Pittsburgh who are old enough to vote who’ve never had the Pirates finish over .500 in their lives.

Besides, I also have the Steelers. I live in Cincinnati, and whenever Bengal fans start with the “Steelers suck” routine, I hold up six fingers and say, “Talk to the fingers”.

263 Gus  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 4:21:19pm

Max! Here, have a beer.

264 ClaudeMonet  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 4:22:18pm

re: #263 Gus 802

Max! Here, have a beer.

I’m not sure if that’s a glass or a pitcher.

265 Gus  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 4:22:19pm

re: #261 researchok

You’re getting old.

Eat a massive burrito. You’ve got nothing to lose and you’ll feel great.

With avocado and… bloating!

/

266 researchok  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 4:22:38pm

re: #265 Gus 802

With avocado and… bloating!

/

Great minds…

267 ProBosniaLiberal  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 4:22:54pm

re: #258 ClaudeMonet

There are a fair number of Sooners (including me) at OU that actually do care about school. So that is just the slightest bit insulting.

268 Gus  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 4:23:20pm

re: #264 ClaudeMonet

I’m not sure if that’s a glass or a pitcher.

Sez it’s a mug right here.

[Link: www.alcohol-stuff.co.uk…]

269 researchok  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 4:23:57pm

re: #268 Gus 802

Sez it’s a mug right here.

[Link: www.alcohol-stuff.co.uk…]

If you are doing it right, they all look like shot glasses.

270 calochortus  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 4:26:46pm

Well, gotta go do stuff.

271 ClaudeMonet  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 4:28:20pm

re: #267 ProLifeLiberal

There are a fair number of Sooners (including me) at OU that actually do care about school. So that is just the slightest bit insulting.

That’s a refreshing change from my days down there. I remember when OU got a new President (c. 1981), and in his introductory remarks said, “I hope to build the kind of university the football team can be proud of.” He got sliced and diced for saying it, but he was right.

272 _RememberTonyC  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 4:30:36pm

re: #249 HoosierHoops

Crazy? Crazy? You don’t know crazy.. I just got back from the Oklahoma Texas game at a bar from Campus…
I have been at games at the NBA..Championship Games, I have been to NFL games including The SuperBowl..I have been to games of all sorts…
I have never seen fans so Dedicated to OU football in my life…These folks are absolutely insane for OU…I have never seen such fans..I know all the cheers now…I was leading cheers during halftime in my White Manning Jersey…And they loved me..I love it here..I have never in my life seen such dedicated fans in my life…I’ve been to the World Series and those fans were Comatose compared to OU fans.. I’m going to love it here


I knew eventually you’d become “Sooner Hoopster” …

273 Linden Arden  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 4:34:00pm

re: #263 Gus 802

Max! Here, have a beer.

I thought Max was going to hang around and debate the Ghost of Socialism.

274 Gus  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 4:34:54pm

re: #273 Linden Arden

I thought Max was going to hang around and debate the Ghost of Socialism.

Same here. Anyway, the beer image was just a peace offering on my part.

275 HoosierHoops  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 4:38:10pm

re: #272 _RememberTonyC

I knew eventually you’d become “Sooner Hoopster” …

My greatest regret was not being good enough to play for John Chaney of Temple in Philly..I ended up at Sonoma State

276 Stanley Sea  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 4:41:41pm

Padres win! I’ll take that as an omen. gah

277 Linden Arden  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 4:43:13pm

re: #276 Stanley Sea

Padres win! I’ll take that as an omen. gah

There could be a 3-way MLB playoff.

That would be so cool. I live in Atlanta and feel strongly we will lose Sunday.

278 Stanley Sea  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 4:49:45pm

Hoops, my stomach is in knots already. Me and my Gator buds usually meet up at the Gator bar or @ each other’s house, but this game? It’s almost too much. Only the brave will be out in public. We are fricking wimps. We’re all at our respective homes, alone and stressed. Too much!

(pls click my nic, give me game time karma)

279 lanaty  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 5:13:22pm

“The Only Moral Abortion is My Abortion”
[Link: mypage.direct.ca…]

An eye-opening collection of accounts from abortion clinic staff around the world about those who refuse accept that others should have reproductive choice, yet demand it for their own circumstances.

(Oh, and GO BLUE!)

280 sagehen  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 5:34:46pm

re: #186 ClaudeMonet

Socialism ignores the fact that unless you think that everyone thinks alike and knows what’s best, someone has to be in charge. Communism takes that to, “The Party knows best and is in charge”. Orwell certainly saw what happened; hence, 1984 and Animal Farm. It’s a lovely ideal, but horrid in practice.

Socialism works great on a small scale — where everyone knows everyone, the group collectively picks leaders (rotating them out as often as necessary), and anybody who decides they don’t like it anymore can sell back their share and move to a different kibbutz (or go into the city to pursue a more individual course.

281 Mongo only pawn... in game of life.  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 5:56:00pm

I sure wonder what would happen if it was one of their wives or daughters or nieces. I get the feeling it’s you, and then it’s them.

282 JRCMYP  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 6:08:03pm

Again, this is the logical conclusion to restrictions on abortion rights. I’ve said it before but I’ll say it again. If you think that ending a fetal life is wrong, it’s wrong under all circumstances. But if you simply don’t like women making decisions about pregnancy, and you have “issues” with what’s “acceptable,” then you feel free to regulate that situation as you see fit. Not as the individual sees fit.

But if you understand that the choice to carry a life to term is determined by the life that is responsible for it’s existence, and therefore, subject to it’s ability to care for or make decisions on its behalf, then you accept and acknowledge that life is not a given. Not a political maneuver, and certainly not a “god given right.” And that life might be ended not because it’s currently abhorrent to society’s predilections, but because it threatens the life (however one might describe it) of the host. And that is acceptable.

If Karl Rove had to decide if the pregnancy he was carrying was “in the best interest” of __________, would most of the right wing pols question his choice? Why is it any different from a low-income, less-than-academic single woman?

Why?

283 BongCrodny  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 7:25:16pm

re: #248 Gus 802

Here’s the full chronology of that bill:

[Link: www.le.state.ut.us…]


Now let’s just imagine, for example, that someone like Sharron Angle is sitting in the Governor’s chair and not Gary Herbert.

284 Eclectic Infidel  Sat, Oct 2, 2010 7:28:04pm

re: #75 BadgerB

Just to double down on this, almost all of these candidates will be in favor of repealing universal health care. So they want to force the mother to carry the child to term and then repeal the guarantee that she and her child will have health coverage during and after the pregnancy.

Yes. And if either dies, it’s their god’s will.

Their agenda is sick.


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