NPR: Amazon Cuts Ties with Calif. Associates

Mongo only pawn in Amazon’s game

US NewsJuly 2011 • Views: 37,506

NPR’s Morning Edition had a report today on the news that Amazon is canceling the accounts of thousands of California affiliates.

MP3 Audio

Savings.com is one business that got a termination notice. It used to make a sizeable amount of revenue from referring customers to Amazon. Now, says Savings.com’s Thomas Swalla, that income is gone.

Mr. THOMAS SWALLA (Savings.com): I definitely understand the intention of what the lawmakers are trying to do. Unfortunately they affected businesses that are going to hire people and invest in their state. And it’s a real effect. I mean, it has a real financial impact.

KAUFMAN: He says Savings.com may be forced to pack up its office and move to another state where it will still be able to get sales commissions for online sales referrals.

Danny Sullivan, an influential search engine blogger who had links to Amazon on his site and has received small commission payments, suggests that Amazon’s tactics carry a tinge of blackmail.

Mr. DANNY SULLIVAN (Blogger): It felt like Amazon wanted to use the affiliates as a kind of a pawn in all this, that by cutting loose these people, that they will go forth and try to get the law changed.

KAUFMAN: Amazon calls the new tax law unconstitutional and counterproductive. The company declined our request for an interview, but Amazon has argued that it’s unreasonable and unfair to compel online retailers to collect sales taxes in 50 states with different rules and different rates. The company has said it would support some sort of national standard on the sales tax issue.

But for now the focus is on California. While Amazon is terminating payments to those who send them business, the company still has offices in California. And the state will no doubt try to get the sales tax it thinks it’s entitled to. Amazon will surely fight, just as it’s done in the six other states that have passed similar tax laws.

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146 comments

windsagio Fri, Jul 1, 2011 2:14:12pm

I didn’t know which side to take on this until I got down to this quote:

The company has said it would support some sort of national standard on the sales tax issue.

It’s impossible of course, and smacks of a national sales tax, but otherwise there’s just a nightmarish net of laws.

freetoken Fri, Jul 1, 2011 2:14:34pm

Let me here repeat my plea that the US Congress really needs to start addressing these 21st century problems in a constructive way.

Americans on the whole do interstate commerce individually because the internet, often and sometimes in quite substantial quantities.

Congress needs to rationalize the taxing of this interstate commerce to ensure fair burdens on everyone.

I suggest a sales tax on all interstate retail, say of 5%. Revenue collected would be equally disbursed between the state in which the purchaser resides and the state to which the item was delivered.

albusteve Fri, Jul 1, 2011 2:17:35pm

re: #2 freetoken

Let me here repeat my plea that the US Congress really needs to start addressing these 21st century problems in a constructive way.

Americans on the whole do interstate commerce individually because the internet, often and sometimes in quite substantial quantities.

Congress needs to rationalize the taxing of this interstate commerce to ensure fair burdens on everyone.

I suggest a sales tax on all interstate retail, say of 5%. Revenue collected would be equally disbursed between the state in which the purchaser resides and the state to which the item was delivered.

congress has not even passed a budget in two years…I think this may be over their heads….congress can’t fix a drink

Sol Berdinowitz Fri, Jul 1, 2011 2:19:42pm

re: #2 freetoken

I suggest a sales tax on all interstate retail, say of 5%. Revenue collected would be equally disbursed between the state in which the purchaser resides and the state to which the item was delivered.

You want to raise TAXES?!?!? Shame on you!!!

Randall Gross Fri, Jul 1, 2011 2:25:44pm

Eventually there will be tons of states who try to tax online sales, and there will be a handful of haven states that attempt to lure online retailer HQ’s and offices with promises of no taxes. In the end the havens will still reap the normal corporate taxes.
That’s the way I see this playing out unless the feds step in under interstate commerce clauses, or unless case law strikes down the state’s attempts to tax internet sales.

Lidane Fri, Jul 1, 2011 2:27:28pm

I sell stuff through Amazon’s Fulfillment program to make money. It’s the easiest, most convenient way for me to get all the books, CD’s and video games that I’ve accumulated over the years out of my house. I list them on Amazon, ship a box to them, then they sell it for me and ship it to the buyer. Way easier than eBay, and I don’t have to hassle with shipping labels or having a ton of packing materials in my house.

If Texas passes a law taxing them and Amazon leaves, or otherwise stops allowing people in Texas to do business on their site over it, I’m screwed.

blueraven Fri, Jul 1, 2011 2:32:17pm

Lets see if the good Gov of TX signs the bill that will include another very large state, in forcing amazon to collect taxes.

Online retailers such as Amazon.com that will have to collect sales tax if they do business in Texas. Perry vetoed an earlier bill making this change, and both sides are waiting to see what he does this time - though the provision is included in a key budget bill.

[Link: www.statesman.com…]

Will he sign it, or have the budget bill go down in flames? The special session ended this week.

What will amazon do?

Our Precious Bodily Fluids Fri, Jul 1, 2011 2:36:49pm

re: #2 freetoken

Let me here repeat my plea that the US Congress really needs to start addressing these 21st century problems in a constructive way.

You said “Congress”, and then you said “constructive”. You’re a funny guy.

gehazi Fri, Jul 1, 2011 2:38:04pm

re: #6 Lidane

I might have to look into this…my far too many full height doublestacked bookshelves would appreciate it I’m sure. Of course, then Texas definitely will decide to tax Amazon: bipartisanship!

albusteve Fri, Jul 1, 2011 2:38:55pm

I don’t understand why or how internet sales is any different than catalog or phone sales…I’m missing something…why should net sales not be taxed?

gehazi Fri, Jul 1, 2011 2:39:50pm

re: #10 albusteve

I don’t understand why or how internet sales is any different than catalog or phone sales…I’m missing something…why should net sales not be taxed?

What’s a catalog sale? ;)

Decatur Deb Fri, Jul 1, 2011 2:43:43pm

re: #10 albusteve

I don’t understand why or how internet sales is any different than catalog or phone sales…I’m missing something…why should net sales not be taxed?

Not so much the taxation, but the question of who the burden should fall to. A smaller net business could find itself dealing with 50+ state revenue offices. (Besides the pretty abrupt way Amazon ditched its affiliates.)

Lidane Fri, Jul 1, 2011 2:43:44pm

re: #9 gehazi

I might have to look into this…my far too many full height doublestacked bookshelves would appreciate it I’m sure. Of course, then Texas definitely will decide to tax Amazon: bipartisanship!

It’s useful. Plus, if you do the Fulfillment stuff, your stuff can be sold for higher prices because you qualify for the Super Saver and Prime shipping.

I like it. I just hope Goodhair doesn’t fuck things up and make Amazon leave or otherwise cut ties. =/

albusteve Fri, Jul 1, 2011 2:45:17pm

re: #12 Decatur Deb

Not so much the taxation, but the question of who the burden should fall to. A smaller net business could find itself dealing with 50+ state revenue offices. (Besides the pretty abrupt way Amazon ditched its affiliates.)

fix the problem…
LOL!

gehazi Fri, Jul 1, 2011 2:46:17pm

re: #13 Lidane

I guess the question is: WWTTPD? (What would a tea partier do?) Assuming he really does decide to run for Prez.

Decatur Deb Fri, Jul 1, 2011 2:46:52pm

re: #14 albusteve

fix the problem…
LOL!

Easy. Eliminate states—they’re an 18th century hangover.

recusancy Fri, Jul 1, 2011 2:47:06pm

Congress needs to take up a full modernization act that includes a federal fix for issues like this and net neutrality and broadband demonopolization.

gehazi Fri, Jul 1, 2011 2:47:23pm

re: #14 albusteve

fix the problem…
LOL!

See Congress, total failure to pass useful legislation

gehazi Fri, Jul 1, 2011 2:48:06pm

re: #18 gehazi

Make that simply:

Congress, total failure

albusteve Fri, Jul 1, 2011 2:48:15pm

re: #16 Decatur Deb

Easy. Eliminate states—they’re an 18th century hangover.

I’d certainly agree to eliminating Alabama

Lidane Fri, Jul 1, 2011 2:49:29pm

re: #17 recusancy

Congress needs to take up a full modernization act that includes a federal fix for issues like this and net neutrality and broadband demonopolization.

Net Neutrality is so obvious I don’t understand why it isn’t the law already.

Oh, wait. I’m expecting Congress to do something productive. Never mind. =P

RogueOne Fri, Jul 1, 2011 2:49:30pm

re: #16 Decatur Deb

Easy. Eliminate states—they’re an 18th century hangover.

We only need 39 of them anyway.

gehazi Fri, Jul 1, 2011 2:50:15pm

re: #20 albusteve

I did a family vacation at an Alabama beach with in-laws a couple years back. It was nice, I could only see a few dozen oil rigs.

Decatur Deb Fri, Jul 1, 2011 2:50:15pm

re: #20 albusteve

I’d certainly agree to eliminating Alabama

We offered.

albusteve Fri, Jul 1, 2011 2:50:44pm

re: #24 Decatur Deb

We offered.

good one

Decatur Deb Fri, Jul 1, 2011 2:51:02pm

re: #22 RogueOne

We only need 39 of them anyway.

There is some magic number—a dozen or so.

recusancy Fri, Jul 1, 2011 2:51:05pm

re: #23 gehazi

I did a family vacation at an Alabama beach with in-laws a couple years back. It was nice, I could only see a few dozen oil rigs.

Think of them as ocean trees.

recusancy Fri, Jul 1, 2011 2:51:43pm

2 Dakotas is just decadence.

Lidane Fri, Jul 1, 2011 2:51:45pm

re: #16 Decatur Deb

Easy. Eliminate states—they’re an 18th century hangover.

Can we sell Alaska back to the Russians? They can see it from their houses anyway. =P

Also, I’m totally in favor of merging the Dakotas. ///

Lidane Fri, Jul 1, 2011 2:54:46pm

re: #26 Decatur Deb

There is some magic number—a dozen or so.

There are only two states — Texas and Not Texas.

///

Decatur Deb Fri, Jul 1, 2011 2:55:22pm

re: #29 Lidane

Can we sell Alaska back to the Russians? They can see it from their houses anyway. =P

Also, I’m totally in favor of merging the Dakotas. ///

Alaska is strategically indefensible—surrounded by savage Canadians. (Happy Canada Day/Fête du Canada, y’all.)

RogueOne Fri, Jul 1, 2011 2:55:56pm

re: #12 Decatur Deb

Not so much the taxation, but the question of who the burden should fall to. A smaller net business could find itself dealing with 50+ state revenue offices. (Besides the pretty abrupt way Amazon ditched its affiliates.)

IN gave Amazon a tax amnesty. We promised that we won’t initiate a sales tax against Amazon. In return, they’ve built 3 facilities in IN:

Amazon Repays Indiana Sales Tax Policy
[Link: www.wltx.com…]

jamesfirecat Fri, Jul 1, 2011 2:58:39pm

Does anybody else find themselves shivering slightly when they see businesses talking about taxes being unconstitutional?

Our Precious Bodily Fluids Fri, Jul 1, 2011 2:58:52pm

Nifty optical illusion

Image: hI2mA.gif

albusteve Fri, Jul 1, 2011 2:59:01pm

re: #32 RogueOne

IN gave Amazon a tax amnesty. We promised that we won’t initiate a sales tax against Amazon. In return, they’ve built 3 facilities in IN:

Amazon Repays Indiana Sales Tax Policy
[Link: www.wltx.com…]

and here I thought we should be taxing billionaire businesses…I can’t keep up

RogueOne Fri, Jul 1, 2011 3:01:27pm

re: #35 albusteve

and here I thought we should be taxing billionaire businesses…I can’t keep up

It’s 2500 people that have jobs, and are buying and paying taxes, that might not otherwise be. It’s a trade.

Dark_Falcon Fri, Jul 1, 2011 3:03:04pm

re: #17 recusancy

Congress needs to take up a full modernization act that includes a federal fix for issues like this and net neutrality and broadband demonopolization.

File that under “Not Gonna Happen”. It would quickly morph into another politicized “showdown”. The people assigned to negotiate would quickly be pulled back by their respective sides to fling red meat to their party bases. The political climate is built for little save confrontation.

RogueOne Fri, Jul 1, 2011 3:03:16pm

Gotta bail folks. Enjoy the evening

sod Fri, Jul 1, 2011 3:04:14pm

Whatever the solution is, it will be like all the rest: as complex as possible and most likely require you to hire someone to help you comply with it.

Complexity: The best job creation engine we have!

blueraven Fri, Jul 1, 2011 3:04:46pm

re: #32 RogueOne

IN gave Amazon a tax amnesty. We promised that we won’t initiate a sales tax against Amazon. In return, they’ve built 3 facilities in IN:

Amazon Repays Indiana Sales Tax Policy
[Link: www.wltx.com…]

But it would be customers paying the taxes on goods, amazon just has to collect. Its a sales tax.

albusteve Fri, Jul 1, 2011 3:07:36pm

re: #36 RogueOne

It’s 2500 people that have jobs, and are buying and paying taxes, that might not otherwise be. It’s a trade.

I wonder what GE blackmails, er gives up in their trade?….make me the Supreme Tax Czar and I promise a fair judgment on any issue you can think of…and you get your answer in 1 hour

wrenchwench Fri, Jul 1, 2011 3:08:03pm

re: #34 negativ

Nifty optical illusion

Image: hI2mA.gif

I COULD have made $.17, if I hadn’t been staring at that stupid thing!1!!

albusteve Fri, Jul 1, 2011 3:09:09pm

re: #42 wrenchwench

I COULD have made $.17, if I hadn’t been staring at that stupid thing!1!!

before taxes, right?…
here’s your 6 cents back

FemNaziBitch Fri, Jul 1, 2011 3:11:12pm

They did this in Illinois. I still don’t understand why they have a problem with it. The law clearly states that they only have to collect tax if they have a “brick and mortar” presence in the State. Macy’s does it, why should Amazon be special?

FemNaziBitch Fri, Jul 1, 2011 3:12:47pm

re: #28 recusancy

2 Dakotas is just decadence.

2 Virginias and 2 Carolinas to boot!

Dark_Falcon Fri, Jul 1, 2011 3:13:00pm

re: #44 ggt

They did this in Illinois. I still don’t understand why they have a problem with it. The law clearly states that they only have to collect tax if they have a “brick and mortar” presence in the State. Macy’s does it, why should Amazon be special?

They don’t want to pay the compliance costs, and they don’t want to complicate their ordering system. They also feel it will be a turn-off to shoppers.

albusteve Fri, Jul 1, 2011 3:13:04pm

re: #44 ggt

They did this in Illinois. I still don’t understand why they have a problem with it. The law clearly states that they only have to collect tax if they have a “brick and mortar” presence in the State. Macy’s does it, why should Amazon be special?

follow the money from Bezos pocket to wherever it lands and you will have your answer

FemNaziBitch Fri, Jul 1, 2011 3:15:51pm

re: #6 Lidane

I sell stuff through Amazon’s Fulfillment program to make money. It’s the easiest, most convenient way for me to get all the books, CD’s and video games that I’ve accumulated over the years out of my house. I list them on Amazon, ship a box to them, then they sell it for me and ship it to the buyer. Way easier than eBay, and I don’t have to hassle with shipping labels or having a ton of packing materials in my house.

If Texas passes a law taxing them and Amazon leaves, or otherwise stops allowing people in Texas to do business on their site over it, I’m screwed.

In, Illinois, I can still sell as an individual seller—as then, I am responsible for collecting taxes —IIRC. It has been a while. I actually had one sale that qualified while I was selling on-line. The tax amounted to something like .42 cents. My accountant told me that the State didn’t collect or refund anything under $5. So all was moot.

We also just packed up a bunch of textbooks and mailed them in. No problem.

Political Atheist Fri, Jul 1, 2011 3:15:54pm

re: #44 ggt

Hah! The interstate commerce clause no longer has limits. In a way not since 1942, and or certainly not since the 6th Circuit panel on HCR. Why should sales tax? It’s a “needs based” logic rather than the intent of the law at it’s inception.

prairiefire Fri, Jul 1, 2011 3:16:15pm

re: #45 ggt

2 Virginias and 2 Carolinas to boot!

I do not want an Ebay tax in MO. No, no, no.

FemNaziBitch Fri, Jul 1, 2011 3:17:17pm

re: #46 Dark_Falcon

They don’t want to pay the compliance costs, and they don’t want to complicate their ordering system. They also feel it will be a turn-off to shoppers.

turn-off to shoppers? I think we are all pretty conditioned to paying sales tax. If they were stupid enough to purchase soft-ware that couldn’t incorporate a tax collection at some point, they were f-ing stupid.

Dark_Falcon Fri, Jul 1, 2011 3:18:42pm

BBL

blueraven Fri, Jul 1, 2011 3:19:07pm

re: #46 Dark_Falcon

They don’t want to pay the compliance costs, and they don’t want to complicate their ordering system. They also feel it will be a turn-off to shoppers.

Complicate their ordering system? Please. Big ecommerce sites have tons of IT people just looking for stuff to change. Mostly screwing with things that dont need to be fixed.

Shoppers are used to paying sales tax. Online outlets can usually sell cheaper because of lower overhead.
Online shopping is convenient. A sales tax will not change that.

FemNaziBitch Fri, Jul 1, 2011 3:19:49pm

I think they can challenge they want. Taxes are a fact of life. They are going to spend/lose more money fighting it than they would have impementing a system of tax collection/payment.

albusteve Fri, Jul 1, 2011 3:19:59pm

something odd going on here…you buy something, you’re taxed, sometimes 3 times…what’s the big deal?…are we gonna save bankrupt states or not?….what happened to the greater good and all that?….for every tax you don’t pay there is a child going hungry or whatever

FemNaziBitch Fri, Jul 1, 2011 3:20:42pm

re: #50 prairiefire

I do not want an Ebay tax in MO. No, no, no.

Well, technically, I think if you sell within MO, you are responsible. Not Ebay. At least that is how my accountant explained it to me here in IL.

Political Atheist Fri, Jul 1, 2011 3:21:16pm

re: #51 ggt

We are conditioned to out of state sales like Amazon not having sales tax. We are accustomed to the advantage. Since Amazon has no physical presence, they are not costing the state anything. This really reminds me of tiered data plans for wireless. Now that revenues are down from cable, due to folks watching on computer instead on cable TV, we see price increases for that.

prairiefire Fri, Jul 1, 2011 3:22:19pm

re: #56 ggt

Well, technically, I think if you sell within MO, you are responsible. Not Ebay. At least that is how my accountant explained it to me here in IL.

Yes, if I had a bricks and mortar store, as I understand it.

FemNaziBitch Fri, Jul 1, 2011 3:22:20pm

Everytime money changes hands, lots of somebodies get a cut. The government is first in line.

If you check the local governments in your area, you will find different municipalities have their own tax. Seller beware. It is up to you to know the tax laws.

FemNaziBitch Fri, Jul 1, 2011 3:23:35pm

re: #58 prairiefire

Yes, if I had a bricks and mortar store, as I understand it.

Not in Illinois.

I did a “constrution” job for awhile. I purposely called each municipality in which I was invited to give a bid. If they wanted me to pay tax on my services, I declined to bid the project.

FemNaziBitch Fri, Jul 1, 2011 3:24:19pm

re: #58 prairiefire

Yes, if I had a bricks and mortar store, as I understand it.

It is usually worded “a physical presence in the State”. Which I have in IL, even selling stuff from my house on-line.

prairiefire Fri, Jul 1, 2011 3:27:32pm

re: #61 ggt

It is usually worded “a physical presence in the State”. Which I have in IL, even selling stuff from my house on-line.

I’m not actually here. Just another illusion.

FemNaziBitch Fri, Jul 1, 2011 3:27:57pm

re: #62 prairiefire

I’m not actually here. Just another illusion.

I hope MO never catches on …

albusteve Fri, Jul 1, 2011 3:28:33pm

re: #61 ggt

It is usually worded “a physical presence in the State”. Which I have in IL, even selling stuff from my house on-line.

in this day and age, physical presence seems ridiculously antiquated

FemNaziBitch Fri, Jul 1, 2011 3:29:21pm

re: #64 albusteve

in this day and age, physical presence seems ridiculously antiquated

I suspect governments will find a way around it in time …in time. For now, they are sticking to the standard.

Stan the Demanded Plan Fri, Jul 1, 2011 3:30:25pm

re: #58 prairiefire

Yes, if I had a bricks and mortar store, as I understand it.

One of my past clients in California had an online store, her own website, via the Yahoo sales portal. She paid sales tax on all the sales shipped to people in California. So I assumed (at least for CA) that you need to charge and remit sales tax for anything you sell in this state.

calochortus Fri, Jul 1, 2011 3:32:07pm

re: #17 recusancy

Congress needs to take up a full modernization act that includes a federal fix for issues like this and net neutrality and broadband demonopolization.

I read that as broadband demon-opolization. LOL.

FemNaziBitch Fri, Jul 1, 2011 3:37:33pm

re: #67 calochortus

I read that as broadband demon-opolization. LOL.

demons in the intertubes?

Where is Varek?

albusteve Fri, Jul 1, 2011 3:38:22pm

re: #68 ggt

demons in the intertubes?

Where is Varek?

watching cartoons

calochortus Fri, Jul 1, 2011 3:39:02pm

re: #68 ggt

Varek does exorcisms?

engineer cat Fri, Jul 1, 2011 3:40:14pm

re: #67 calochortus

I read that as broadband demon-opolization. LOL.

the process of creating demon cities, obviously

ProBosniaLiberal Fri, Jul 1, 2011 3:43:02pm

Of topic, but I saw this from Nate Silver:

fivethirtyeight Nate Silver
GOP gerrymander in NC is a work of art. State voted for Obama, but McCain won between 56-58% of the vote in 10 of 13 new districts.

albusteve Fri, Jul 1, 2011 3:43:24pm

when all else fails…squirt em with breast milk

According to the sheriff’s office, Mrs. Robinette began yelling profanities when they approached the car and refused to get out. She then told them she is a breastfeeding mother, removed her right breast from her dress and began spraying deputies and the car with her breast milk.

[Link: www.dispatch.com…]

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Fri, Jul 1, 2011 3:44:01pm

re: #71 engineer dog

the process of creating demon cities, obviously

Youtube Video

FemNaziBitch Fri, Jul 1, 2011 3:44:09pm

re: #73 albusteve

when all else fails…squirt em with breast milk

According to the sheriff’s office, Mrs. Robinette began yelling profanities when they approached the car and refused to get out. She then told them she is a breastfeeding mother, removed her right breast from her dress and began spraying deputies and the car with her breast milk.

[Link: www.dispatch.com…]

lovely, wouldn’t you just like to know your mother did such a thing?

WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.] Fri, Jul 1, 2011 3:44:32pm

re: #72 ProLifeLiberal

Of topic, but I saw this from Nate Silver:

pigs move fast

Political Atheist Fri, Jul 1, 2011 3:45:25pm

re: #73 albusteve

What a waste! She could be selling it in Europe

We all scream AT ice cream?

albusteve Fri, Jul 1, 2011 3:47:17pm

re: #75 ggt

lovely, wouldn’t you just like to know your mother did such a thing?

it’s just harmless fun…she was just kidding
imagine what the Weiner kid will have to go through

albusteve Fri, Jul 1, 2011 3:49:32pm

re: #77 Rightwingconspirator

What a waste! She could be selling it in Europe

We all scream AT ice cream?

not sure what to think about it….
shit burgers
breast milk ice cream
urine pops
etc

FemNaziBitch Fri, Jul 1, 2011 3:50:02pm

Ok, well,

I’m off for the evening.

Have a great one all!

Political Atheist Fri, Jul 1, 2011 3:54:23pm

re: #79 albusteve

I could just hurl.

Stan the Demanded Plan Fri, Jul 1, 2011 3:54:55pm

re: #79 albusteve

not sure what to think about it…
shit burgers
breast milk ice cream
urine pops
etc

ewe

albusteve Fri, Jul 1, 2011 3:55:09pm

re: #81 Rightwingconspirator

I could just hurl.

there you go…
a hurl and cheese sandwich

PhillyPretzel Fri, Jul 1, 2011 3:56:26pm

re: #83 albusteve
I will be back after dinner.

Political Atheist Fri, Jul 1, 2011 3:57:51pm

re: #83 albusteve

there you go…
a hurl and cheese sandwich

Okay I think I’ll have a late dinner tonight. Much later.

Stan the Demanded Plan Fri, Jul 1, 2011 4:06:03pm

re: #85 Rightwingconspirator

Okay I think I’ll have a late dinner tonight. Much later.

Hopefully you had a nice anniversary dinner. :)

Stan the Demanded Plan Fri, Jul 1, 2011 4:07:33pm

Check out this sign!

If you don’t like gay marriage…

SpaceJesus Fri, Jul 1, 2011 4:08:51pm

any zombie-ologists here know what the chances are of the smoke from los alamos labs turning everybody in albuquerque into zombies?

the homeless guys outside are moving funny and making strange sounds

calochortus Fri, Jul 1, 2011 4:09:16pm

re: #87 Stanley Sea

No,no, it’s all those straight people being subverted by teh ghey!

Eclectic Infidel Fri, Jul 1, 2011 4:12:33pm

This only strengthens the argument that taxes hurt business.

sattv4u2 Fri, Jul 1, 2011 4:14:55pm

re: #87 Stanley Sea

Check out this sign!

If you don’t like gay marriage…

Love it

Killgore Trout Fri, Jul 1, 2011 4:15:26pm

re: #88 SpaceJesus

any zombie-ologists here know what the chances are of the smoke from los alamos labs turning everybody in albuquerque into zombies?

the homeless guys outside are moving funny and making strange sounds

Don’t forget to double tap.

sattv4u2 Fri, Jul 1, 2011 4:16:08pm

re: #85 Rightwingconspirator

off topic,,, a quick HEY and a quicker no problem and a quicky thanks!

Eclectic Infidel Fri, Jul 1, 2011 4:17:16pm

re: #89 calochortus

Back in the day when Newsmax had a discussion board, this was a common thread by the conservatives there. They really believed it. My exposure to the early wingnuts (before the term was coined by whoever) left me thinking..”these people are retarded.” That impression still holds true years later.

albusteve Fri, Jul 1, 2011 4:19:38pm

re: #92 Killgore Trout

Don’t forget to double tap.

the Double Tap
2 shots vodka
1 shot Splash

calochortus Fri, Jul 1, 2011 4:22:23pm

re: #94 eclectic infidel

It’s kind of sad, actually.

Killgore Trout Fri, Jul 1, 2011 4:22:32pm

re: #95 albusteve

the Double Tap
2 shots vodka
1 shot Splash

38 minutes early.

albusteve Fri, Jul 1, 2011 4:24:54pm

re: #90 eclectic infidel

This only strengthens the argument that taxes hurt business.

how else can voters pay for the union sweetheart deals, the bloat of govt and buying your water from out of state?…I don’t see why liberals in CA wouldn’t vote for this tax in a heartbeat…raising or finding something new to tax is survival….college tuition for illegal aliens is as much as $10k per year alone…don’t kid yourself

albusteve Fri, Jul 1, 2011 4:27:45pm

re: #97 Killgore Trout

38 minutes early.

heh…Mr SelfControl
that’s a compliment

100

Killgore Trout Fri, Jul 1, 2011 4:31:38pm

re: #99 albusteve

heh…Mr SelfControl
that’s a compliment

I’m also pooped after a long day in the garden. I’ll be lucky to stay up past 8 or 9 oclock.

101

Killgore Trout Fri, Jul 1, 2011 4:37:07pm

Dymphna (at gates of Veinna) sez Pam is the new Charles Johnson….

Chazzer’s ambitions crumbled under the weight of reality. He never became the Right’s Daily Kos. The Repub’s leaders never came to crown him with many crowns. So he took his marbles (the few remaining) and went back to the Left, where his heart was.

Pamela rebuilt her brand and was a smashing success. But her tactics began to echo LGF’s: demonizing those not pure enough. Thus we are among the Unclean. Geller’s Begones look like the LGF-soviet-style picture cropping.

It’ll be interesting to see how this pans out. Pam’s not going to suddenly become rational. There’s only so many counterjihad readers on the net these days. It’s just not a fashionable topic any more and the blogs are so fractured at this point they’re all going to starve each other of traffic and readers.

102

reine.de.tout Fri, Jul 1, 2011 4:40:50pm

re: #101 Killgore Trout

Dymphna (at gates of Veinna) sez Pam is the new Charles Johnson…

It’ll be interesting to see how this pans out. Pam’s not going to suddenly become rational. There’s only so many counterjihad readers on the net these days. It’s just not a fashionable topic any more and the blogs are so fractured at this point they’re all going to starve each other of traffic and readers.

I toldja it was coming!
Pammie does a Charles Johnson …
While accusing folks she used to support but can’t support any more of doing a Charles Johnson.
Meanwhile, everybody is sending the original Charles Johnson hate mail for being Charles Johnson.
Who is this guy and how did he get to be so relevant?

103

SpaceJesus Fri, Jul 1, 2011 4:42:31pm

re: #101 Killgore Trout

How did they miss the part where Charles doesn’t defend genocide?

Isn’t that enough for them to still love crazy Pam?

104

Charles Johnson Fri, Jul 1, 2011 4:45:45pm

re: #101 Killgore Trout

Imagine, if you will, my cosmic amusement.

105

albusteve Fri, Jul 1, 2011 4:51:25pm

the Greeks step up to the plate over the flotilla nonsense

ATHENS, Greece – Greece on Friday banned ships heading to the Gaza Strip from leaving Greek ports, and a vessel carrying several dozen American protesters which left port without permission was ordered to return

Read more: [Link: www.foxnews.com…]

106

SpaceJesus Fri, Jul 1, 2011 4:53:52pm

my friend’s girlfriend is on that flotilla. really getting sick of the facebook updates about it.

107

darthstar Fri, Jul 1, 2011 4:54:13pm

Sitting here at my sister’s house on Lake Tahoe, throwing balls into the water for the dogs, watching the nieces on the paddleboat puttering around, and drinking a beer…life ain’t too bad. Tomorrow morning, I’ll get up, drive around the lake, snow ski for a few hours, then come back and go out on my brother’s boat which will be at her dock by then.

108

darthstar Fri, Jul 1, 2011 4:56:52pm

re: #95 albusteve

the Double Tap
2 shots vodka
1 shot Splash

I ordered a “bin Laden” in front of my dad recently. Bartender said “What?” and I said “Two shots and a splash of water.”

109

Killgore Trout Fri, Jul 1, 2011 4:57:22pm

re: #104 Charles

Imagine, if you will, my cosmic amusement.

It’s kinda satisfying to see this come full circle. Pam even took down her “Support Geert” Banner recently. Spencer still has his up, we’ll see how long it lasts.

110

Decatur Deb Fri, Jul 1, 2011 4:57:55pm

Can finally agree with the Republican majority.

[Link: www.cbsnews.com…]

Wonkette cites a CBS news poll that shows most TPGOPers are sick of their candidates.

111

makeitstop Fri, Jul 1, 2011 4:59:17pm

This is good - B-1 Bob Dornan Dishes on Newt Gingrich

Then the ex-college professor from Georgia showed up. “When [Newt] arrived and I got a load of this guy…” Bob says. “I remember the southeast well of the Cannon Office Building. ‘Hey, Bob, I want you to meet my wife!’ There was this sad woman.” That was Jackie Gingrich, Wife No. 1.

“The late, great Paul Weyrich warned me, ‘This guy has no compass.’”

…

For all his idea-mongering, Newt wasn’t a hard worker, Bob maintains. Years later, when Bob offered to take him along on foreign trips, Newt would suggest Bob go and report back to him instead. (Bob declined and broadcast his findings on the House floor.) Bob says Newt’s relationships with the future Marianne and Callista Gingrich were open secrets in the GOP caucus. “At the end of the two years,” Bob recalls, “one of the pages, he said, ‘Do you know what we call Mr. Gingrich behind the scenes?’”

“I said, ‘What?’”

“‘We call him a dork, a geek, and a skank’—a word I’d never heard.”

There’s so much in this interview, I had a hard time picking what to quote.

Dornan was always good for a laugh - and man, does he have it in for Gingrich.

112

darthstar Fri, Jul 1, 2011 5:00:03pm

re: #110 Decatur Deb

Can finally agree with the Republican majority.

[Link: www.cbsnews.com…]

Wonkette cites a CBS news poll that shows most TPGOPers are sick of their candidates.

We were just having fun sounding like insane bigots! We didn’t mean we wanted our representatives to ACTUALLY BE insane bigots! We like our social services and attacking the black guy…can’t we have both?

113

darthstar Fri, Jul 1, 2011 5:01:01pm

re: #109 Killgore Trout

I’m still trying to give a fuck about Pam Geller and her troubles…ain’t happening.

114

jamesfirecat Fri, Jul 1, 2011 5:04:59pm

re: #110 Decatur Deb

Can finally agree with the Republican majority.

[Link: www.cbsnews.com…]

Wonkette cites a CBS news poll that shows most TPGOPers are sick of their candidates.

Reminds me of Stephen Colbert bit about how the only Republican polling better than Obama is a generic one.

115

albusteve Fri, Jul 1, 2011 5:05:04pm

re: #112 darthstar

We were just having fun sounding like insane bigots! We didn’t mean we wanted our representatives to ACTUALLY BE insane bigots! We like our social services and attacking the black guy…can’t we have both?

just goes to show that the elitists cannot control the voters indefinitely…give them some credit…when you say ‘we’ you are deciding what people think even tho you have never met or don’t know them…what foot is your shoe on?

116

albusteve Fri, Jul 1, 2011 5:06:05pm

re: #113 darthstar

I’m still trying to give a fuck about Pam Geller and her troubles…ain’t happening.

I’m still trying to give a fuck what you did today….ain’t happening

117

darthstar Fri, Jul 1, 2011 5:06:39pm

Fuck yeah! Warren Haynes doing Peter Frampton.
[Link: newmusictoday.blogspot.com…]

118

darthstar Fri, Jul 1, 2011 5:07:16pm

re: #116 albusteve

I’m still trying to give a fuck what you did today…ain’t happening

I’d be disappointed if you did.

119

darthstar Fri, Jul 1, 2011 5:08:01pm

re: #115 albusteve

I was paraphrasing the teabaggers - and yourself.

120

Killgore Trout Fri, Jul 1, 2011 5:08:13pm

re: #116 albusteve

I’m still trying to give a fuck what you did today…ain’t happening

Now, now. Nobody gives a fuck about my frogs or garden. Doesn’t deter me from talking about them constantly anyways.

121

darthstar Fri, Jul 1, 2011 5:09:12pm

re: #120 Killgore Trout

Now, now. Nobody gives a fuck about my frogs or garden. Doesn’t deter me from talking about them constantly anyways.

I give a fuck about your frogs. Please keep sharing their stories and adventures.

122

albusteve Fri, Jul 1, 2011 5:09:19pm

re: #120 Killgore Trout

Now, now. Nobody gives a fuck about my frogs or garden. Doesn’t deter me from talking about them constantly anyways.

frogs are interesting…can’t say the same about a boat ride…
but point received

123

darthstar Fri, Jul 1, 2011 5:10:15pm

re: #122 albusteve

frogs are interesting…can’t say the same about a boat ride…
but point received

I’m more excited about snow skiing…boat rides bore the fuck out of me, but I have beer and I will survive.

124

Dark_Falcon Fri, Jul 1, 2011 5:12:15pm

re: #87 Stanley Sea

Check out this sign!

If you don’t like gay marriage…

Loves it!

125

Dark_Falcon Fri, Jul 1, 2011 5:13:42pm

re: #120 Killgore Trout

Now, now. Nobody gives a fuck about my frogs or garden. Doesn’t deter me from talking about them constantly anyways.

I think your neighbors care, since the frogs have cut back on pests.

126

darthstar Fri, Jul 1, 2011 5:14:33pm

This is where I’m sitting right now…I almost don’t miss the ocean.

127

Stan the Demanded Plan Fri, Jul 1, 2011 5:16:23pm

re: #124 Dark_Falcon

Loves it!

Hey thanks Dark! How’s it going?

(ignoring Steve at the moment.)

128

albusteve Fri, Jul 1, 2011 5:16:44pm

re: #125 Dark_Falcon

I think your neighbors care, since the frogs have cut back on pests.

I think his neighbors themselves are the pests…anyway, in a few years there will have to be some sort of harvest…a huge frog leg fry and KT will be the host of honor…just a guess

129

Dark_Falcon Fri, Jul 1, 2011 5:17:09pm

re: #102 reine.de.tout

I toldja it was coming!
Pammie does a Charles Johnson …
While accusing folks she used to support but can’t support any more of doing a Charles Johnson.
Meanwhile, everybody is sending the original Charles Johnson hate mail for being Charles Johnson.
Who is this guy and how did he get to be so relevant?

HE’S NOT RELEVANT!1 ALL HE IS IS A FAILED JAZZ GUITARIST!!11 HE BANNED ME FOR NO REASON!!!11 OW MY BUTT, IT HURTS!!!111

130

Dark_Falcon Fri, Jul 1, 2011 5:17:26pm

re: #127 Stanley Sea

Hey thanks Dark! How’s it going?

(ignoring Steve at the moment.)

Decent day today. Gaming tomorrow.

131

darthstar Fri, Jul 1, 2011 5:17:31pm

Okay…batteries getting low..time to be a sociable uncle anyway…play nice.

132

Dark_Falcon Fri, Jul 1, 2011 5:18:05pm

re: #128 albusteve

I think his neighbors themselves are the pests…anyway, in a few years there will have to be some sort of harvest…a huge frog leg fry and KT will be the host of honor…just a guess

Killgore’s frogs are too small to fry up good.

Oh my, the time. Gotta run. Back after dinner.

133

Spocomptonite Fri, Jul 1, 2011 5:20:59pm

I still find it ridiculous that Amazon is throwing a fit about sales taxes, when they are based in my state where they have to charge me and everyone else here 6.5% sales tax.

So, Savings.com is being forced out of CA to a state that doesn’t have sales tax, because Amazon, a company headquartered in a state with sales tax since its inception, doesn’t want to pay sales tax?

*head explodes*

134

BishopX Fri, Jul 1, 2011 5:36:06pm

re: #133 Spocomptonite

The Amazon CEO is a libertarian with rabid anti-tax views. He ponied up 100,000 dollars to help defeat a state income tax increase.

R.S. McCain and Mother Jones both compare him to John Galt.

135

albusteve Fri, Jul 1, 2011 5:39:26pm

re: #134 BishopX

The Amazon CEO is a libertarian with rabid anti-tax views. He ponied up 100,000 dollars to help defeat a state income tax increase.

R.S. McCain and Mother Jones both compare him to John Galt.

then it follows that all democrats and liberals should reject Amazon and not do business with them…the fact that they don’t is revealing

136

BishopX Fri, Jul 1, 2011 5:46:54pm

re: #135 albusteve

You can take my free shipping when you pry it from my cold dead hands!/

137

Spocomptonite Fri, Jul 1, 2011 5:52:19pm

re: #134 BishopX

The Amazon CEO is a libertarian with rabid anti-tax views. He ponied up 100,000 dollars to help defeat a state income tax increase.

R.S. McCain and Mother Jones both compare him to John Galt.

Oh god don’t remind me. I voted for the income tax. Being one of the student reps for my school’s engineering dept. advisory board, I got to hear about how our state funding was going to get cut so hard, that even though tuition rates had to increase 25%, the engineering lab wouldn’t be able to get any new hardware for at least 2 years and we couldn’t afford to replace our program’s Dean and instead had to use the business department’s Dean. Washington state is almost entirely funded by sales tax, so when the economy went south, state revenues fell by double digit percentages. We NEEDED higher taxes, or at least different taxes that wouldn’t fluctuate so wildly with the economy. Instead, public schools took massive, massive hits.

The worst, most ironic part, is that Bezos’s salary (sub-6 figure) isn’t even high enough to be taxed by the proposed income tax. ARG LOGIC RAGE

138

goddamnedfrank Fri, Jul 1, 2011 5:53:44pm

re: #135 albusteve

then it follows that all democrats and liberals should reject Amazon and not do business with them…the fact that they don’t is revealing

Bill Gates was on the other side of that income tax initiative. The fact that Republicans and conservative continue to use Windows is equally revealing, in other words not revealing at all.

139

Varek Raith Fri, Jul 1, 2011 6:03:15pm

re: #138 goddamnedfrank

Bill Gates was on the other side of that income tax initiative. The fact that Republicans and conservative continue to use Windows is equally revealing, in other words not revealing at all.

You can have my Windows 1.0 when you pry it from my cold, dead hd!

140

Buck Fri, Jul 1, 2011 6:28:31pm

I have not been following the whole Amazon / Calif discussion, BUT something came to my mind. If it has already been discussed forgive me.

What if someone out of the state (or even out of the country) were to lease space on a Website like this one, and fill that space with their Amazon ad?

That might/would get around the States requirement for collecting taxes?

Just thinking out loud.

141

ReamWorks SKG Fri, Jul 1, 2011 7:01:27pm

re: #12 Decatur Deb

50? It’s 7000.

There are 7,000 distinct tax authorities that levy a sales or use tax: 50 states, 1,600 counties, and 4,500 cities.

And it’s nearly impossible to keep up with it correctly. ATT just got in deep trouble for accidentally collecting tax they shouldn’t have. They passed it along to the states, who gleefully accepted it, even though they weren’t entitled to it.

142

lawhawk Fri, Jul 1, 2011 7:38:38pm

On top of CA rushing to enact this bill - with no lead time to get everyone to prepare to collect (the bill was effective upon signature, which is unusual in that laws that affect significant tax policies are usually done at some future date so as to give retailers and the Tax Authority (in this case the BOE) a chance to prepare appropriate forms, collection procedures, regs., etc), the legislature may have screwed things up with shoddy statutory construction that might render everything moot in a lawsuit.

The text of the bill defines a retailer doing business in this state as pretty much any retailer:

“Retailer
engaged in business in this state” specifically includes, but is not
limited to, any of the following:
(1) Any retailer maintaining, occupying, or using, permanently or
temporarily, directly or indirectly, or through a subsidiary, or
agent, by whatever name called, an office, place of distribution,
sales or sample room or place, warehouse or storage place, or other
place of business.
(2) Any retailer having any representative, agent, salesperson,
canvasser, independent contractor, or solicitor operating in this
state under the authority of the retailer or its subsidiary for the
purpose of selling, delivering, installing, assembling, or the taking
of orders for any tangible personal property.
(3) As respects a lease, any retailer deriving rentals from a
lease of tangible personal property situated in this state.
(4) Any retailer that is a member of a commonly controlled group,
as defined in Section 25105, and is a member of a combined reporting
group, as defined in paragraph (3) of subdivision (b) of Section
25106.5 of Title 18 of the California Code of Regulations, that
includes another member of the retailer’s commonly controlled group
that, pursuant to an agreement with or in cooperation with the
retailer, performs services in this state in connection with tangible
personal property to be sold by the retailer, including, but not
limited to, design and development of tangible personal property sold
by the retailer, or the solicitation of sales of tangible personal
property on behalf of the retailer.

The part in bold wasn’t actually amended in this bill, but it is the problem. As written, it could construed to treat a retailer doing business in California as any retailer - regardless of where they’re located. The business could be in Katmandu, and still be treated as a retailer doing business in CA under the way the statute is written. It’s so overbroad as to render it useless and statutorily defective.

That the legislature didn’t fix this defect in the original bill suggests yet another legislative oversight and/or intent to tax all retailers regardless of where they’re located.

Despite the rush to get this bill enacted, no one at the BOE was actually prepared to carry out their end of things - and retailers who would be targeted by the law would not be in a position to collect and remit tax either.

143

lawhawk Fri, Jul 1, 2011 7:54:50pm

re: #140 Buck

Still taxable pursuant to 6203 of the Revenue and Taxation Code if sufficient revenues are generated:

(5) (A) Any retailer entering into an agreement or agreements under which a person or persons in this state, for a commission or other consideration, directly or indirectly refer potential purchasers of tangible personal property to the retailer, whether by an Internet-based link or an Internet Web site, or otherwise, provided that both of the following conditions are met:
(i) The total cumulative sales price from all of the retailer’s
sales, within the preceding 12 months, of tangible personal property
to purchasers in this state that are referred pursuant to all of
those agreements with a person or persons in this state, is in excess
of ten thousand dollars ($10,000).
(ii) The retailer, within the preceding 12 months, has total
cumulative sales of tangible personal property to purchasers in this
state in excess of five hundred thousand dollars ($500,000).

Subsection (C) wouldn’t apply in your example since the purpose was to solicit sales and business as contemplated.

144

Buck Fri, Jul 1, 2011 9:22:56pm

re: #143 lawhawk

Still taxable pursuant to 6203 of the Revenue and Taxation Code if sufficient revenues are generated:

Oh well, it was a thought.

145

Buck Fri, Jul 1, 2011 9:32:16pm

That is some subsection (C)…

(C) Notwithstanding subparagraph (B), an agreement under which a
retailer engages a person in this state to place an advertisement on
an Internet Web site operated by that person, or operated by another
person in this state, is not an agreement described in subparagraph
(A), unless the person entering the agreement with the retailer also
directly or indirectly solicits potential customers in this state
through use of flyers, newsletters, telephone calls, electronic mail,
blogs, microblogs, social networking sites, or other means of direct
or indirect solicitation specifically targeted at potential
customers in this state.

Anyone who advertises on a Blog in CA is going to have to be very careful.

146

Spocomptonite Sat, Jul 2, 2011 11:43:16am

re: #72 ProLifeLiberal

Nothing beats the gerrymandering of Illinois. Look at the 4th and 13th districts.

Spy Mode Auto

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