Overnight Open Thread

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Human progress having reached a high level through respect for the liberty and dignity of men, it has become desirable to re-affirm these evident truths:

  • That differences of race, color, and creed are natural, and that diverse groups, institutions, and ideas are stimulating factors in the development of man;
  • That to promote harmony in diversity is a responsible task of religion and statesmanship;
  • That since no individual can express the whole truth, it is essential to treat with understanding and good will those whose views differ from our own;
  • That by the testimony of history intolerance is the door to violence, brutality and dictatorship; and
  • That the realization of human interdependence and solidarity is the best guard of civilization.
  • Rooted in freedom, bonded in the fellowship of danger, sharing everywhere a common human blood, we declare again that all men are brothers, and that mutual tolerance is the price of liberty.

— Will Durant, Declaration of Interdependence

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363 comments
1 freetoken  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 9:58:20pm
That the realization of human interdependence and solidarity is the best guard of civilization.

Surely this must be a communist plot, no?

2 engineer cat  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 10:03:34pm

Rooted in freedom, bonded in the fellowship of

nah, let's get rid of government, unshackle free enterprise, and live by the law of the jungle

3 CuriousLurker  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 10:06:26pm

Beautiful words describing the noblest of concepts... may we all find it within ourselves to live up to them and live by them every day. Good night, Lizards.

4 Kragar  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 10:14:47pm

re: #2 engineer dog

Rooted in freedom, bonded in the fellowship of

nah, let's get rid of government, unshackle free enterprise, and live by the law of the jungle

Welcome to the Jungle

5 Gus  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 10:16:40pm

The Cult - She Sells Sanctuary

Youtube Video
6 engineer cat  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 10:23:06pm

slow night

i never get tired of posting beatiful olivia chaney singing that amazing aria/lullaby from monteverdi's coronazione di poppea, Oblivion Soave

Youtube Video

that is one amazingly beautiful song...

7 freetoken  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 10:55:58pm

I'm thinking about doing yet another Page of evolution and American Christians... it seems a bit redundant at this point, but I do think all too often political pundits under estimate the importance of the evangelical/conservative religious experience in this country as key to understanding today's American society and politics.

8 Gus  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 11:05:46pm

Hedwig and the angry inch - Midnight Radio

Youtube Video
9 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 11:15:34pm
Youtube Video

Why do I love this so much


I LOVE THIS SO MUCH

10 engineer cat  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 11:21:15pm

re: #9 WindUpBird

[Video]Why do I love this so much

I LOVE THIS SO MUCH

you kwazy, girl

do you know, that song is atonal, almost 12-tone music

Youtube Video
11 freetoken  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 11:22:57pm

Some Couperin for a late night:

MP3 Audio
12 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 11:26:05pm

re: #2 engineer dog

Rooted in freedom, bonded in the fellowship of

nah, let's get rid of government, unshackle free enterprise, and live by the law of the jungle

...yet label everybody else "savages".

/conservative hypocrisy

13 engineer cat  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 11:26:19pm

re: #11 freetoken

Some Couperin for a late night:

[Video]

couperin, yes! harpsichord master at versailles

i have a whole collection based on famous composers who were in residence at the court of louis xiv - lully, marin marais, elizabeth jaquet de la guerre, etc

although i must say i've never heard couperin played with such modern orchestration

14 engineer cat  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 11:27:06pm

re: #9 WindUpBird

that's a cool song, reminds me of uncle frank

15 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 11:40:54pm

re: #10 engineer dog

that's how cevin key rolls, he operates with zany tonalities

16 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 11:43:11pm

re: #5 Gus 802

the 2000s-ish Cult album Beyond Good And Evil is shockingly good, it has a bit of a different, meaner character than a lot of the 80's stuff

17 Kragar  Tue, Jan 10, 2012 11:43:19pm
Youtube Video
18 freetoken  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 12:44:45am

Prokofiev being funky in that early 20th century kind of way:

MP3 Audio
19 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 12:47:37am

re: #2 engineer dog

Rooted in freedom, bonded in the fellowship of

nah, let's get rid of government, unshackle free enterprise, and live by the law of the jungle

I prefer the Law of the Briny Deep. Fewer provisions for having songs sung at you by talking lions and what not.

20 freetoken  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 1:07:05am

Well, I finished another Page on politics and Evolution. I'll post it during the daytime... for now, I need to unwind, and there is no better way to do that than with the Peanuts:

MP3 Audio
21 researchok  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 1:17:04am

Morning, all

22 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 1:24:33am

re: #9 WindUpBird

That's ... interesting.

23 WINDUPBIRD DISEASE [S.K.U.M.M.]  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 1:30:19am

re: #22 Sergey Romanov

That's ... interesting.

between the two of those guys, I think they've done like 60 albums

24 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 1:37:09am

re: #23 WindUpBird

between the two of those guys, I think they've done like 60 albums

8o

25 freetoken  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 3:15:02am
MP3 Audio
26 Obdicut  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 3:18:33am

sooo much work.

I'm having to pull out the Neko Case to keep morale up.

Youtube Video

And, for bonus, Case and Cave:

Youtube Video
27 Obdicut  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 3:20:57am

Followed by Cave and Polly Jean:

Youtube Video
28 Obdicut  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 3:37:04am

Did you know Bowie covered The Pixies?

Youtube Video
29 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 3:56:45am

Good Morning Honcos!

30 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 4:04:27am

Proposed law in Israel would outlaw "Godwining".

Israeli bill would outlaw comparisons to Nazis

You know who else outlawed unpopular speech?!?!?!
//

31 Obdicut  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 4:06:40am

What are Ron Paul freaks doing on Muse?

Youtube Video
32 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 4:08:59am

re: #30 rwdflynavy

Proposed law in Israel would outlaw "Godwining".

Israeli bill would outlaw comparisons to Nazis

You know who else outlawed unpopular speech?!?!?!
//

I read that it's somewhat of a "custom" to use these comparisons in politics. Ben Gurion used to call Jabotinsky "Vladimir Hitler". ;)

33 AK-47%  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 4:12:11am

I think that comparisons to Nazis should be allowed only if said person has invaded and occupied at least one neighboring country and exterminated at least 1 million people.

34 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 4:13:24am

re: #33 ralphieboy

I think that comparisons to Nazis should be allowed only if said person has invaded and occupied at least one neighboring country and exterminated at least 1 million people.

That seems fair.

35 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 4:13:48am

re: #33 ralphieboy

I think the comparisons to various stages of Nazism are proper in different contexts. E.g. we can look at early, pre-genocide Nazis and compare them to some groups today. Otherwise, how can we learn from history?

36 AK-47%  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 4:17:17am

re: #35 Sergey Romanov

I was certainly annoyed at people who compared Bush to Hitler.

After all, Hitler served his country in wartime and was decorated for bravery three times, whereas Bush joined the AIr National Guard and then did not even show up for duty...


/

37 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 4:18:24am

re: #36 ralphieboy

uuuh... ;)

38 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 4:19:19am

To prevent phenomena like Nazism or totalitarian Communism from arising in the future, there's no way but to compare.

39 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 4:20:35am

re: #38 Sergey Romanov

To prevent phenomena like Nazism or totalitarian Communism from arising in the future, there's no way but to compare.

Absolutely agree, I think the problem arises when those comparisons aren't at all valid and are used to stir up outrage like the Bushitler talk.

40 Varek Raith  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 4:20:43am

re: #38 Sergey Romanov

To prevent phenomena like Nazism or totalitarian Communism from arising in the future, there's no way but to compare.

Indeed, Sergey Hitler Mcstalin.
:P

41 Shropshire_Slasher  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 4:22:03am

Red sky in the morning, sailor's warning.

42 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 4:22:07am

re: #39 rwdflynavy

Absolutely agree, I think the problem arises when those comparisons aren't at all valid and are used to stir up outrage like the Bushitler talk.

Yep, there's always a second side to a coin. (Unless it's Varek's multi-dimensional quasitrifermium 7D coin.)

43 AK-47%  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 4:28:50am

re: #42 Sergey Romanov

Yep, there's always a second side to a coin. (Unless it's Varek's multi-dimensional quasitrifermium 7D coin.)

I was just being facetious there.

As much as I get tired of people using the term "fascist" or Nazi" to describe anything they don't like, restricting free speech in any form is rather, er...fascist in nature.

44 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 4:30:55am

re: #43 ralphieboy

I was just being facetious there.

As much as I get tired of people using the term "fascist" or Nazi" to describe anything they don't like, restricting free speech in any form is rather, er...fascist in nature.

That's it, off to prison with you! //

I disagree about restricting free speech being fascist, of course. You cannot tell about nuclear secrets openly. You cannot distribute c. porn. You cannot tell someone to kill someone knowing he will do it. Etc. All these are limitations on free speech.

45 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 4:31:27am

re: #30 rwdflynavy

Proposed law in Israel would outlaw "Godwining".

Israeli bill would outlaw comparisons to Nazis

You know who else outlawed unpopular speech?!?!?!
//

It's just so lame to cry "Nazi!" over every little trivial inconvenience. No soup for you!

46 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 4:31:57am

re: #45 Alouette

It's just so lame to cry "Nazi!" over every little trivial inconvenience. No soup for you!

If I say "no Nazi comparisons for you", does that make me a Nazi Nazi?! //

47 Varek Raith  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 4:33:58am

re: #46 Sergey Romanov

If I say "no Nazi comparisons for you", does that make me a Nazi Nazi?! //

It makes you a super nazi.

48 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 4:34:19am

re: #47 Varek Raith

It makes you a super nazi.

I'm super! Thanks for asking... //

49 Shropshire_Slasher  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 4:35:29am

re: #47 Varek Raith

How about Uber Nazi?

50 Varek Raith  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 4:35:47am

re: #49 Shropshire_Slasher

How about Uber Nazi?

That's the next rank up.

51 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 4:36:50am

re: #46 Sergey Romanov

If I say "no Nazi comparisons for you", does that make me a Nazi Nazi?! //

Ordinary nazis murdered millions. Super nazis don't allow anyone else to call other people "nazis"!

Yeah that totally makes sense.//

52 Varek Raith  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 4:37:16am

re: #51 Alouette

Ordinary nazis murdered millions. Super nazis don't allow anyone else to call other people "nazis"!

Yeah that totally makes sense.//

[Link: t1.gstatic.com...]

53 Only The Lurker Knows  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 4:37:19am

Morning Lizards.

54 Varek Raith  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 4:39:40am

Twinkie maker Hostess Brands in bankruptcy filing

How do you even mess this up????

55 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 4:39:54am

re: #45 Alouette

It's just so lame to cry "Nazi!" over every little trivial inconvenience. No soup for you!

Hey! That would make a funny tv comedy episode! A "Soup Nazi"!!

(off to write that down)
//

56 Shropshire_Slasher  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 4:39:57am

re: #54 Varek Raith

Unions
/

57 AK-47%  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 4:40:11am

Germany, for example, bans the use of Nazi symbols except for historical or academic purpose.

Which led to the odd case of someody being forbidden to sell anti-Nazi posters and t-shirts, because the authorities in Stuttgart simply applied the law: to them, a swastika is a swastika, and it is illegal to portray one.

Which then led to the "social acceptability clause", which now allows swastikas to be displayed as long as they are clearly part of an anti-Nazi message.

Then I though about a cool t-shirt a friend of mine had with the caption: "Nazi flying saucers from the hollow Earth", showing swastika-emblazoned flyding saucers.

One would really have to go to court to explain that this constitutes an ironic comment on people who believe in crackpot theories and is in effect anti-Nazi (as they were bitg into the Hollow Earth Theory), etc...

I am for freedom to do or say anthing as long as it does not infringe on other people's rights to do and enjoy the same.

58 AK-47%  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 4:41:43am

re: #54 Varek Raith

Twinkie maker Hostess Brands in bankruptcy filing

How do you even mess this up???

There is something inherently wrong with a company that cannot make money selling unhealthy food to Americans...

59 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 4:43:59am

re: #57 ralphieboy

Germany, for example, bans the use of Nazi symbols except for historical or academic purpose.

Which led to the odd case of someody being forbidden to sell anti-Nazi posters and t-shirts, because the authorities in Stuttgart simply applied the law: to them, a swastika is a swastika, and it is illegal to portray one.

Which then led to the "social acceptability clause", which now allows swastikas to be displayed as long as they are clearly part of an anti-Nazi message.

Then I though about a cool t-shirt a friend of mine had with the caption: "Nazi flying saucers from the hollow Earth", showing swastika-emblazoned flyding saucers.

One would really have to go to court to explain that this constitutes an ironic comment on people who believe in crackpot theories and is in effect anti-Nazi (as they were bitg into the Hollow Earth Theory), etc...

I am for freedom to do or say anthing as long as it does not infringe on other people's rights to do and enjoy the same.

I don't have any problem with swastika ornaments from India which represent what is clearly a Hindu religious symbol.

60 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 4:45:32am

A couple of years ago a co-worker put a wedding invitation on the bulletin board, and the border was decorated with little swastikas. It kind of freaked me out, but it was for a Hindu wedding.

61 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 4:46:50am

re: #59 Alouette

I don't have any problem with swastika ornaments from India which represent what is clearly a Hindu religious symbol.

Indeed. As I said on a thread yesterday, different cultural backgrounds means different standards.

62 Shropshire_Slasher  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 4:48:36am

re: #59 Alouette

I thought the India symbol was oriented backwards.

63 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 4:49:20am

But some would say of course, "oh, Alouette defends swastikas!". /

64 Obdicut  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 4:50:51am

re: #63 Sergey Romanov

I don't know anyone that oversensitive.

65 Varek Raith  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 4:51:00am

re: #63 Sergey Romanov

But some would say of course, "oh, Alouette defends swastikas!". /

Then they get bonked in the head.

66 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 4:51:38am

re: #64 Obdicut

I don't know anyone that oversensitive.

Just wait and see. Cf. the Turner Diaries brouhaha.

67 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 4:52:33am

re: #62 Shropshire_Slasher

I thought the India symbol was oriented backwards.

Indian swastika is upright and clockwise, nazi swastika is tilted and counter-clockwise.

68 Obdicut  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 4:52:33am

re: #66 Sergey Romanov

Just wait and see. Cf. the Turner Diaries brouhaha.

Oh, if you're including people pretending to be offended, then sure.

69 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 4:52:54am

re: #64 Obdicut

I don't know anyone that oversensitive.

The merry crowd as Dead Louse.

70 AK-47%  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 4:53:10am

re: #59 Alouette

I don't have any problem with swastika ornaments from India which represent what is clearly a Hindu religious symbol.

That was not the attitude of the local authorities in Stuttgart. The result was rather embarassing, the government shutting down a t-shirt and poster company that sold anti-Nazi products.

This is the sort of stupid contradiction that comes about whenever one tries to limit free speech.

71 Varek Raith  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 4:54:04am

Off to work I go! *Dramatic superhero music*

72 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 4:55:35am

Car bombs kill Iranian nuclear expert

73 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 4:56:21am

re: #70 ralphieboy

That was not the attitude of the local authorities in Stuttgart. The result was rather embarassing, the government shutting down a t-shirt and poster company that sold anti-Nazi products.

This is the sort of stupid contradiction that comes about whenever one tries to limit free speech.

I could tell you about certain medical mishaps... I guess you would then decide that medicine is bad.


Please address the specific examples I brought up. What about nuclear secrets? What about mafia boss using speech to order someone killed? What about underage porn?

You could use the "infringement" clause to argue against the second example I guess, but it's just as slippery a slope. I could argue that racist propaganda is bound to infringe on people's rights.

74 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 4:57:15am

Freakout over swastika earrings at a New York novelty shop.

The orientation and direction clearly shows they are the Indian, not the nazi variety.

75 iossarian  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 4:57:31am

re: #56 Shropshire_Slasher

Unions
/

The Hostess case is a very useful illustration of the fallacy that lies in believing that private pensions are somehow better than socialized retirement/disability funding, because the private version is "your money in a box" that you can get back whenever you want.

I don't know any specifics of the Hostess case, but it looks as if they're about to stiff the pension companies for a good chunk of change. So much for your money being in the box, even if you've been making contributions from your paycheck.

76 AK-47%  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 5:02:15am

re: #73 Sergey Romanov

I mentioned earlier - people should be free to do anything that does not infringe on other people's rights to do the same.

Of course I recognize that there are limits, especially involving security and personal privacy, I am just for being very, very selective about when and where to place limits.

77 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 5:03:48am

re: #76 ralphieboy

I mentioned earlier - people should be free to do anything that does not infringe on other people's rights to do the same.

Of course I recognize that there are limits, especially involving security and personal privacy, I am just for being very, very selective about when and where to place limits.

OK, that's not quite the absolutist position of #43. I basically agree, although we disagree on specific limits.

78 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 5:14:38am

US Fires 1st Drone in Pakistan in 6 Weeks; 4 Dead

An American drone strike killed four Islamist militants in Pakistan, the first such attack since errant U.S airstrikes in November killed two dozen Pakistan troops and pushed strained ties between the two nations close to collapse, Pakistani intelligence officials said Wednesday.

The attack Tuesday took place in North Waziristan, an al-Qaida and Taliban stronghold close to the Afghan border that has been pounded by U.S. strikes, the officials said. Three of the dead were Arab fighters, said the officials, who didn't give their names because they were not allowed to be named in the media.

79 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 5:19:50am

Morning Lizardim. Snow is approaching here in the wild north country, and I have to say, I'm psyched about this. It's about time winter came back. What's new in Lizardia?

80 Shropshire_Slasher  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 5:26:50am

Damn, now I want some Twinkies!

81 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 5:29:17am

re: #79 thedopefishlives

Morning Lizardim. Snow is approaching here in the wild north country, and I have to say, I'm psyched about this. It's about time winter came back. What's new in Lizardia?

Snow is pretty, but sucks to drive in it.

82 AK-47%  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 5:31:01am

Here in Germany, the only use I have had for a snow shovel so far this winter has been to prop open the back door...

83 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 5:32:28am

re: #82 ralphieboy

Here in Germany, the only use I have had for a snow shovel so far this winter has been to prop open the back door...

We've been pretty warm this winter here in Oregon too.

84 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 5:33:05am

re: #81 Alouette

Snow is pretty, but sucks to drive in it.

When you live up here on the Canadian border, one gets used to the mild inconvenience. I actually have fun driving in snow, particularly with my wife's 4-wheel-drive pickup. Which, come to think of it, I'm probably going to regret not bringing that to work today. Oh well.

85 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 5:34:25am

re: #84 thedopefishlives

When you live up here on the Canadian border, one gets used to the mild inconvenience. I actually have fun driving in snow, particularly with my wife's 4-wheel-drive pickup. Which, come to think of it, I'm probably going to regret not bringing that to work today. Oh well.

I live on the Canadian border.

86 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 5:34:40am

re: #83 Killgore Trout

We've been pretty warm this winter here in Oregon too.

Actually, aside from the deep South, seems like most of the United States has been experiencing a warmer than normal winter. We've had several record high temperature days in the last two weeks.

87 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 5:34:57am

re: #85 Alouette

I live on the Canadian border.

Hmm. How I didn't know this, I don't know. I take it all back.

88 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 5:38:10am

re: #87 thedopefishlives

Hmm. How I didn't know this, I don't know. I take it all back.

The Canadian border is five thousand miles long.

89 AK-47%  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 5:38:45am

re: #88 Alouette

The Canadian border is five thousand miles long.

And almost all of it still undefended!!!

90 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 5:39:29am

re: #88 Alouette

The Canadian border is five thousand miles long.

Yes, yes, I know that. I just didn't realize that you lived near it. For all that length, there's still only a small portion of the country that is adjacent to it.

91 andres  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 5:42:55am

re: #4 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Welcome to the Jungle

A bit late to the party, but...

Youtube Video
92 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 5:43:57am

re: #90 thedopefishlives

Yes, yes, I know that. I just didn't realize that you lived near it. For all that length, there's still only a small portion of the country that is adjacent to it.

I thought you might have figured it out since I have frequently commented about the Bridge Troll.

93 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 5:48:40am

re: #92 Alouette

I thought you might have figured it out since I have frequently commented about the Bridge Troll.

I'm not around all that much, pretty much only in the early mornings when the work is slow.

94 reine.de.tout  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 5:52:50am

re: #86 thedopefishlives

Actually, aside from the deep South, seems like most of the United States has been experiencing a warmer than normal winter. We've had several record high temperature days in the last two weeks.

I'm not sure what you mean by "deep" South.

But here in La., we've been pretty warm - just got a blast of cool air after 2 weeks of shorts/t-shirt weather (temps in upper 70's). Much warmer than usual, particularly for January, usually our coldest month.

95 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 5:55:15am

re: #94 reine.de.tout

I'm not sure what you mean by "deep" South.

But here in La., we've been pretty warm - just got a blast of cool air after 2 weeks of shorts/t-shirt weather (temps in upper 70's). Much warmer than usual, particularly for January, usually our coldest month.

Hmm. All I know is what I've been reading from the Weather Channel's website. They say it's been colder down south and warmer everywhere else. *shrug*

I seem to be off my game entirely this morning. Perhaps a mental reboot is in order.

96 Romantic Heretic  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 6:22:30am

re: #82 ralphieboy

Here in Germany, the only use I have had for a snow shovel so far this winter has been to prop open the back door...

Same here in Toronto. Weather's been very weird here.

97 Shropshire_Slasher  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 6:29:15am

re: #93 thedopefishlives

How is your little diesel doing in this winter weather? Do you treat your fuel for the winter?

98 lawhawk  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 6:29:43am

re: #62 Shropshire_Slasher

A Brooklyn jewelry store is being slammed by local politicians for selling jewelry with swastikas on it, but the store claims that they're just ignorant politicians:

The Bejeweled shop in Greenpoint has sold out of all but one pair of the controversial accessory — studs that closely resemble the Nazi symbol.

“It’s totally outrageous,” said City Councilman Steve Levin (D-Greenpoint), who called on Bejeweled to stop selling the earrings.

“They should be sensitive to what that symbol means to Jews around the world.”

The swastika, popularized by the Nazis, is originally a symbol for eternity in Tibetan Buddhism.

A Bejeweled manager defended the Manhattan Ave. store’s decision to sell the jewelry, saying that the earrings mirror the Tibetan symbol, not swastikas.

“These people are ignorant,” said the manager, who declined to give her name. “They shouldn’t say anything if they don’t know anything about symbols. I find this offensive.”

99 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 6:31:04am

re: #97 Shropshire_Slasher

How is your little diesel doing in this winter weather? Do you treat your fuel for the winter?

I do, but it still struggles a little bit to get started in the morning when the mercury starts dropping below freezing. When it gets altogether too cold (around 0 degrees F/-18 degrees C), I start plugging in the block heater.

100 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 6:31:26am

"As to harmonizing the theory of evolution with the Biblical account of creation, I do not believe it can be done, and I do not see why it should be. The story of Genesis is beautiful, and profoundly significant as symbolism: there is no good reason to torture it into conformity with modern theory." -Will Durant

101 Obdicut  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 6:31:35am

re: #98 lawhawk

Heh. Millions of Jews died from people using the imagery of the Cross, too, but we're hardly going to ask people to stop using that imagery.

102 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 6:33:57am

re: #98 lawhawk

A Brooklyn jewelry store is being slammed by local politicians for selling jewelry with swastikas on it, but the store claims that they're just ignorant politicians:

I just blogged that. It's clockwise, upright-oriented, Hindu symbol probably manufactured in India. No intent to offend.

103 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 6:34:09am

Egypt: Israeli Pilgrimage 'Impossible' This Year

Egypt's Foreign Ministry said Wednesday it had told Israel that it would not be "appropriate" for Israeli pilgrims to make an annual visit to the tomb of a 19th-century Jewish holy man in the Nile Delta, as activists mobilized to block the pilgrimage route.

Ceremonies at the tomb of Rabbi Yaakov Abu Hatzira have triggered yearly political sparring in Egypt throughout most of the last decade, with Islamists, nationalists, and others claiming that the government by allowing the pilgrimage is pursuing an unpopular policy of normalization with the country's former enemy.
....
An Islamist politician involved in organizing protests against the march meanwhile said that visiting Abu Hatzira's gravesite in the village of Daymouta, 180 kilometers (112 miles) north of Cairo would be a "suicide mission" for Israelis, because of popular opposition to their presence in Egypt.

"Normalization (of relations) with Israel is forced on the people, and the visits too come against the will of the people and despite popular rejection," said Gamal Heshmat of the Muslim Brotherhood, the country's best organized political group.

104 lawhawk  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 6:34:56am

re: #101 Obdicut

Indeed.

105 Shropshire_Slasher  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 6:38:11am

re: #99 thedopefishlives

Mazda is coming out with a 2.2 liter diesel sport ute in 2013. I have a TDI with common rail fuel system, no smoke, reduced noise, no cold weather issues, and I do treat my fuel.

106 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 6:39:27am

re: #105 Shropshire_Slasher

Mazda is coming out with a 2.2 liter diesel sport ute in 2013. I have a TDI with common rail fuel system, no smoke, reduced noise, no cold weather issues, and I do treat my fuel.

I want to get a TDI to replace the Mrs. Fish's sport pickup. I love the 4WD and the hauling capacity, but we need a family car, and would prefer one that has excellent fuel economy to drive from here to fish country and back.

107 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 6:39:41am

This cross struck fear into me.

108 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 6:40:58am

re: #105 Shropshire_Slasher

I crossed 325,000 miles in my Toyota Highlander yesterday. If you consider that I haven't had to buy a new car with all those miles? i could care less that it only gets 22 MPG.

109 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 6:42:57am

Hamas scuttles reconciliation with Fatah, Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood a better ally....
Al-Tirawi: Hamas counting on Muslim Brotherhood victory

Hamas is avoiding reconciliation with Fatah because it believes it will be strengthened by a Muslim Brotherhood victory in Egyptian elections, senior Fatah official Tawfiq al-Tirawi said Wednesday.

Al-Tirawi told Voice of Palestine radio that if the Muslim Brotherhood was elected in Egypt, Hamas would consider the win its own victory.

Hamas believes a Muslim Brotherhood-led government on its border would bolster the movement, which rules the Gaza Strip, said al-Tirawi, a member of Fatah's central committee.

It's really starting to look like the Egyptian revolution is not going to be a positive development.

110 AK-47%  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 6:46:15am

re: #102 Alouette

I just blogged that. It's clockwise, upright-oriented, Hindu symbol probably manufactured in India. No intent to offend.

But that's not the point of rabid Political Correctitude. Regardless of intent, if it could possibly offend, then it must be stifled!!!

111 Shropshire_Slasher  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 6:46:44am

re: #108 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

That says something about Toyota, how many driver seats have you been thru?! /
I try to keep my cars awhile, but I get disgusted with them and like change. I didn't marry it!

112 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 6:46:49am

re: #109 Killgore Trout

It should be okay. They have "brotherhood" in their name.
/

113 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 6:47:53am

re: #111 Shropshire_Slasher

Still on my original drivers seat. Is entirely intact. No interior degradation whatsoever.

Freakin' car is a miracle car.

114 reine.de.tout  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 6:48:35am

re: #62 Shropshire_Slasher

I thought the India symbol was oriented backwards.

That's what I thought, too.

115 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 6:49:33am

re: #111 Shropshire_Slasher

That says something about Toyota, how driver seats have you been thru?! /
I try to keep my cars awhile, but I get disgusted with them and like change. I didn't marry it!

My family is of the "drive it until the wheels fall off" philosophy. The saddest day of my life was the day my dad's prized '91 Chevy, just shy of 200k miles, was totaled in a not-at-fault accident. The engine was still strong, there was not a spot of rust to be found, and it easily could've lasted for another 200k more.

116 Targetpractice  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 6:51:18am

Follow-up on the Pat Buchanan story from the other day:

Pat Buchanan blames 'Militant Gay Rights Groups,' 'People of Color' for pending MSNBC termination

Conservative commentator Pat Buchanan attacked gay rights and civil rights organizations for pressuring MSNBC network president Phil Griffin to fire him after the release of his latest book, Suicide of a Superpower. The work, which has been roundly condemned, includes chapters titled “The End of White America” and “The Death of Christian America.” “Look, for a long period of time the hard left, militant gay rights groups, militant — they call themselves civil rights groups, but I’m not sure they’re concerned about civil rights — people of color, Van Jones, these folks and others have been out to get Pat Buchanan off T.V., deny him speeches, get his column canceled,” Buchanan said during a radio interview with Sean Hannity on Wednesday. “This has been done for years and years and years and it’s the usual suspects doing the same thing again. But my view is, you write what you believe to be the truth.” Buchanan said he has not received a “formal notification” of his termination from the network, although executives have hinted that he will not return to the airwaves.

117 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 6:51:30am

re: #115 thedopefishlives

I'm shooting for five hundred in mine. Original engine is still in perfect condition. No oil leakage. Oil change every 7500 miles; mechanic just shakes his head when he opens the hood.

118 Decatur Deb  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 6:52:38am

re: #108 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I crossed 325,000 miles in my Toyota Highlander yesterday. If you consider that I haven't had to buy a new car with all those miles? i could care less that it only gets 22 MPG.

Haven't seen the numbers in a few years, but they showed that the cradle-to-grave environmental costs of producing a new car every seven years or so far exceed the fuel burned. (That means everything--back to mining the unrecycled iron, petrochemicals and aluminum that goes into one.) My old Rover has prevented the production of about seven replacement vehicles so far.

119 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 6:54:11am

re: #117 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I'm shooting for five hundred in mine. Original engine is still in perfect condition. No oil leakage. Oil change every 7500 miles; mechanic just shakes his head when he opens the hood.

We did have to have some transmission work done on it, but other than that, it was just regularly scheduled maintenance and a new radiator core. That truck was a beast. They just don't make 'em like that anymore.

120 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 6:54:48am

re: #118 Decatur Deb

Yep. It also helps that I'm fucking broke and couldn't buy a new one if I wanted to!!

121 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 6:54:50am

re: #114 reine.de.tout

That's what I thought, too.

I've seen it both ways. I'm not sure if there's a nuance to the meaning of which way the symbol rotates.

122 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 6:55:27am

re: #72 Killgore Trout

Car bombs kill Iranian nuclear expert

Two assailants on a motorcycle attached a magnetic bomb to the car of an Iranian university professor working at a key nuclear facility, killing him and another person Wednesday, state TV reported. The slayings suggest a widening covert effort to set back Iran's atomic program.

Damn shame.
//

123 Decatur Deb  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 6:57:04am

re: #118 Decatur Deb

(Oops.. make that about 6 new cars avoided, it's only 38 yrs old.)

124 Decatur Deb  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 6:58:02am

re: #119 thedopefishlives

We did have to have some transmission work done on it, but other than that, it was just regularly scheduled maintenance and a new radiator core. That truck was a beast. They just don't make 'em like that anymore.

Think how much new car-loan interest it has saved you.

125 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 6:58:07am

re: #122 NJDhockeyfan

Damn shame.
//

I was reading just yesterday some speculation that Israel and the US have resigned themselves to a nuclear Iran. I don't think so. It seems odd that the assassinations would continue, more extreme measure will probably follow. It's pretty impressive the Israelis can pull off these operations.

127 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 7:00:02am

re: #124 Decatur Deb

Think how much new car-loan interest it has saved you.

Up until the day that it died, yeah. Now that savings has passed on to my current daily driver, which is 2 months older than I am and still running strong, though heavily rusted.

128 Eventual Carrion  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 7:01:33am

re: #125 Killgore Trout

I was reading just yesterday some speculation that Israel and the US have resigned themselves to a nuclear Iran. I don't think so. It seems odd that the assassinations would continue, more extreme measure will probably follow. It's pretty impressive the Israelis can pull off these operations.

How would you feel about a foreign power coming into the US and assassinating some of our scientists since you seem to be just fine with Israel (supposedly) doing this?

129 kirkspencer  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 7:02:34am

re: #114 reine.de.tout

That's what I thought, too.

Actually, it goes both ways in Indian art and history. I did some research a few years ago on the subject.

Yes, today most creators are careful to have the bend go left, but in every culture where the symbol (regardless of name and interpretation) was used examples of both directions can be found.

Heck, even the Nazis had both ways.

130 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 7:04:45am

re: #125 Killgore Trout

I was reading just yesterday some speculation that Israel and the US have resigned themselves to a nuclear Iran. I don't think so. It seems odd that the assassinations would continue, more extreme measure will probably follow. It's pretty impressive the Israelis can pull off these operations.

Leon Panetta said the military option is still on the table.

The US administration responded to Iran’s announcement last weekend that its Fordo uranium enrichment plant was operational with renewed threats of military action. The sharp rise in tensions in the Persian Gulf follows steps by the US and Europe to impose an embargo on Iranian oil exports that would ruin the country’s economy.

Speaking on the CBS “Face the Nation” last Sunday, US Defence Secretary Leon Panetta acknowledged that Iran was not building a nuclear bomb at present. But he added, Iran was “developing a nuclear capability” and “that’s what concerns us.”

He warned: “Our red line to Iran is: do not develop a nuclear weapon. That’s a red line for us.” Panetta is threatening a devastating US military attack on Iranian nuclear and military facilities, under the pretext that Tehran is developing nuclear arms.

While insisting that the current US focus was economic and diplomatic pressure, he repeated the mantra that the US was not “taking any option off the table.”

131 AK-47%  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 7:06:08am

re: #116 Targetpractice, Worst of Both Worlds

msnbc is a business, and this is a business decision. Why do you hate capitalism, Pat?

132 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 7:06:27am

Morning all!

What's up?

133 Decatur Deb  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 7:07:21am

re: #130 NJDhockeyfan

Leon Panetta said the military option is still on the table.

The military option is always on the table, in every administration, against every potential adversary. Some captain in the Pentagon J-3 has plans for the invasion of Lichtenstein in a bottom desk drawer.

134 prairiefire  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 7:07:52am

Magnetic bomb on the nuke scientist's car! A direct assassination. This has also happened before. Amazing.
I think it boils down to "do not threaten Israel."

135 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 7:08:17am

re: #131 ralphieboy

msnbc is a business, and this is a business decision. Why do you hate capitalism, Pat?

Pat hates capitalism because it would limit him

Tyrants don't want any economic system that interferes with their desires.

136 AK-47%  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 7:09:26am

re: #128 RayFerd

How would you feel about a foreign power coming into the US and assassinating some of our scientists since you seem to be just fine with Israel (supposedly) doing this?

Well, if we were developing a weapon that could destabilize the power structure in a politically volatile part of the world from which a foreign nation drives a great deal of its energy resources, and that nation was an "exceptional" which enjoyed with a unique standing with God because it reflects Divine Law in its own laws, then it would be justified.


/

137 Eventual Carrion  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 7:14:42am

re: #136 ralphieboy

Well, if we were developing a weapon that could destabilize the power structure in a politically volatile part of the world from which a foreign nation drives a great deal of its energy resources, and that nation was an "exceptional" which enjoyed with a unique standing with God because it reflects Divine Law in its own laws, then it would be justified.

/

Sounds about right. I just have a real hard time cheering on anything that would piss me the fuck off if done to "me".

138 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 7:14:51am

re: #128 RayFerd

How would you feel about a foreign power coming into the US and assassinating some of our scientists since you seem to be just fine with Israel (supposedly) doing this?

Well, I guess I am "just fine" with it but only in the sense that it's an attempt to derail or dissuade the Iranians from continuing their nuclear program. I don't think allowing them nukes is a reasonable option and directly destroying their facilities with missile strikes would likely cause a lot more deaths.
Iran has clearly and repeatedly expressed their desire to destroy Israel so Israel is morally obligated to deny them the tools that would enable their dream.
I think it would be immoral to allow the mullahs in Iran to have the bomb.

139 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 7:15:48am

re: #136 ralphieboy

The Canadians did it?

140 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 7:17:37am

re: #137 RayFerd

Sounds about right. I just have a real hard time cheering on anything that would piss me the fuck off if done to "me".

Here's a thought experiment: What do you think would happen is you expressed your desire to destroy Israel (or any other country) and then stared building a nuclear weapon? Somebody is going to try to stop you. I'm sure that might piss you off but it should be expected.

141 Eventual Carrion  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 7:18:24am

re: #138 Killgore Trout

Well, I guess I am "just fine" with it but only in the sense that it's an attempt to derail or dissuade the Iranians from continuing their nuclear program. I don't think allowing them nukes is a reasonable option and directly destroying their facilities with missile strikes would likely cause a lot more deaths.
Iran has clearly and repeatedly expressed their desire to destroy Israel so Israel is morally obligated to deny them the tools that would enable their dream.
I think it would be immoral to allow the mullahs in Iran to have the bomb.

"derail or dissuade"? It is murder by assassination. Should other countries start killing Americans that they see as a destabilizing force for their country and interests? And if you say, "they already are", then why get pissed about it. They are only doing what "we" feel is just fine and dandy if done by "us".

And I think it would be immoral to let the radical christians in the US have the bomb.

142 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 7:20:39am

re: #141 RayFerd

"derail or dissuade"? It is murder by assassination. Should other countries start killing Americans that they see as a destabilizing force for their country and interests? And if you say, "they already are", then why get pissed about it. They are only doing what "we" feel is just fine and dandy if done by "us".

So do you think we should just let them develop a nuclear bomb? Should we let them use it?

143 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 7:23:36am

re: #141 RayFerd


How about Al Qaeda and Bin Laden? Should we have not interfered with Bin Laden's plans out of fairness? We would certainly be pissed if someone interfered with our military ambitions. You seem to be verging on moral equivalence to the point of nihilism.

144 Decatur Deb  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 7:23:37am

re: #142 Killgore Trout

So do you think we should just let them develop a nuclear bomb? Should we let them use it?

The notion of 'developing' a bomb is obsolete--they have literal tons of money and starving nations, including a Muslim nation, have the bombs. The market will decide.

145 Shropshire_Slasher  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 7:23:49am

Mutually Assured Destruction

146 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 7:24:22am

re: #138 Killgore Trout

I agree with you here. However one must also be consistent. If US or Israeli assassinations in Iran are legal, then so are Iranian assassinations in US or Israel.

147 Decatur Deb  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 7:25:29am

re: #146 Sergey Romanov

I agree with you here. However one must also be consistent. If US or Israeli assassinations in Iran are legal, then so are Iranian assassinations in US or Israel.

And we edge back towards 'good terrorism' and 'bad terrorism'.

148 albusteve  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 7:25:42am

re: #142 Killgore Trout

So do you think we should just let them develop a nuclear bomb? Should we let them use it?

there is no bomb...there won't be a bomb...
a few people make that claim

149 lawhawk  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 7:26:32am

re: #142 Killgore Trout

Another way to look at it is that the Iranian official position has been to continue its war against Israel by any of its means at its disposal. That includes using proxies such as Hamas and Hizbullah and even Syria, as well as developing a nuclear capability. The nuclear capabilities serve multiple purposes, not only to potentially go after Israel, but to act as a threat and/or deterrent to other countries in the region as they vie for hegemony. That includes the likes of Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, and even Iraq (though in a much diminished position). It's why Iran rattles the sabres when it talks about shutting down the Strait of Hormuz (raising oil prices that fill its coffers), runs war games to show off weapons capabilities, etc.

So, if Israel is engaging in a covert war against Iran's nuclear program, it is against that backdrop.

150 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 7:26:36am

re: #145 Shropshire_Slasher

Mutually Assured Destruction

That only works as a deterrent between semi-rational entities. We are dealing with religious zealots with deeply held doomsday beliefs and terrorists here. It's a whole different set of rules.

151 AK-47%  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 7:27:47am

re: #139 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

The Canadians did it?

They do not enjoy an exceptional status with God; they have socialized medicine, which everybody knows is an abomination unto the Lord...

/

152 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 7:28:05am

re: #146 Sergey Romanov

I agree with you here. However one must also be consistent. If US or Israeli assassinations in Iran are legal, then so are Iranian assassinations in US or Israel.

I agreed that there probably isn't an internationally recognized legal framework for the assassinations.

153 kirkspencer  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 7:28:59am

re: #134 prairiefire

Magnetic bomb on the nuke scientist's car! A direct assassination. This has also happened before. Amazing.
I think it boils down to "do not threaten Israel."

Might be Israel. Might be the US. US is known (well, unproven but inferred from administration remarks and circumstantial reports) to be conducting covert ops in Iran. See discussion of a downed recon UAV not so long ago.

To be honest I'm on both sides of the issue. Since the "nuke Iran" side is already well presented by others, I'll raise the other side for consideration. It comes in two parts.

Part one: assassination? Executive order 12333 was signed by Reagan and has been continued by every president since. It was created for two reasons. Simplistically, we can call them tit-for-tat and moral high ground. Tit-for-tat is simple: if we do it, it gives our enemies not only carte blanche but reason to do it to us. It discourages ratcheting down conflicts. Moral high ground is more vague, but basically it's hard to for others to take your noble cries for peace seriously when your hands are covered with blood.

Part two: I'm not convinced they're going for the bomb. On this I'm part of a minority, but hear me out please.

Iran uses very little oil for electricity. It uses mostly coal supported by natural gas. It has a very large natural gas reserve, but it has to import coal. Iran has been building a nuclear power plant. The plant needs 20% uranium (not the 90% required for weapons). If Iran shifts to nuclear power to include refining its own uranium (which it mines already) it gains the following benefits:
1) Increases energy independence;
2) Reduces pollution and carbon signature;
3) Frees more natural gas for export (and income).

Iran's leadership has been supportive of controlling AGW, and has indicated peak oil is a possibility. Now it's possible their support of AGW is an attempt to reduce US and European wealth and power -- that is one of the anti-climate change arguments. But they are on the right side of the argument.

Again, I also see reason for believing the negative. But because i can see the positive... I don't know.

154 Decatur Deb  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 7:29:26am

re: #150 Killgore Trout

That only works as a deterrent between semi-rational entities. We are dealing with religious zealots with deeply held doomsday beliefs and terrorists here. It's a whole different set of rules.

Why bring Bachmann and Santorum into this discussion?

/

155 Eventual Carrion  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 7:29:37am

re: #142 Killgore Trout

So do you think we should just let them develop a nuclear bomb? Should we let them use it?

We shouldn't have a nuclear bomb when it gets right down to it, no one should but that genie is out of the bottle. Pakistan and North Korea have it, India has it , China has it, Russia has it. Shit we are buddies with Pakistan and they have been selling the technology for a bomb to any Tom, Dick, or Harry that had the money for it.

Iran would like nuclear technology (for good or bad) and they are bound and determined to have it. We can at least have a fair relationship diplomatically with them to hopefully deter any saber rattling that could bring things to the point of even having to worry about them using it on us. Or we could just cheer on attacks within their borders and piss them off so it will be sure as shit that if it comes to them having one (or acquiring one from Pakistan) that they could very well use it.

156 AK-47%  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 7:29:42am

re: #152 Killgore Trout

I agreed that there probably isn't an internationally recognized legal framework for the assassinations.

That point was even broached regarding the assassination of Bin Laden...

157 albusteve  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 7:30:24am

It might not seem like it, but the West has already launched its campaign to prevent Iran building an atom bomb. This is not a conventional war of the type we have recently experienced in Iraq and Afghanistan. On the contrary, rather than using thousands of troops and state-of-the-art weaponry to achieve our goals, the West is now waging a sophisticated campaign where it relies on its wits and ingenuity rather than brute force.

[Link: blogs.telegraph.co.uk...]

158 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 7:30:31am

re: #152 Killgore Trout

I agreed that there probably isn't an internationally recognized legal framework for the assassinations.

Yep. It's a "who gets away" game and we can't change that. I'm rooting for the "good guys" (US and Israel in this case), but I won't get exercised if "the bad guys" use the same methods then - playing with the devil and all that.

159 Eventual Carrion  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 7:30:57am

re: #143 Killgore Trout

How about Al Qaeda and Bin Laden? Should we have not interfered with Bin Laden's plans out of fairness? We would certainly be pissed if someone interfered with our military ambitions. You seem to be verging on moral equivalence to the point of nihilism.

We set Bin Laden up during the Russian invasion. Fairness doesn't even come into the picture.

160 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 7:32:18am

re: #151 ralphieboy

They do not enjoy an exceptional status with God; they have socialized medicine, which everybody knows is an abomination unto the Lord...

/

If Canada was so great, wouldn't they be a State by now?
-Daniel Tosh

161 lawhawk  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 7:35:43am

re: #153 kirkspencer

If it were merely about developing enrichment capabilities for a civilian purpose, then why go through all of the secrecy and not submit to IAEA inspections and open and clear verification. Instead, we see repeated efforts to circumvent IAEA and prying eyes by burying enrichment facilities deep underground and dispersed facilities throughout the country so as to avoid the potential for airstrikes.

It's the added costs associated with such efforts that are highly suggestive that they aren't merely looking for civilian enrichment capabilities, but going for nuclear weapons.

Throw in the fact that the Russians offered to build the facilities and provide the LEU (civilian grade uranium for nuclear power generation), and the Iranians refused, instead opting for their own "homegrown" enrichment capability. The Iranian enrichment facilities appear based on the Pakistani P1 and P2 centrifuges; the IR-1 and IR-2 appear to be efforts based on the same designs (all part of the AQ Khan network).

Add to that the ties to the the North Koreans, and you've got a pattern indicating that the Iranians are up to no good.

162 Decatur Deb  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 7:39:34am

re: #161 lawhawk

If it were merely about developing enrichment capabilities for a civilian purpose, then why go through all of the secrecy and not submit to IAEA inspections and open and clear verification. Instead, we see repeated efforts to circumvent IAEA and prying eyes by burying enrichment facilities deep underground and dispersed facilities throughout the country so as to avoid the potential for airstrikes.

It's the added costs associated with such efforts that are highly suggestive that they aren't merely looking for civilian enrichment capabilities, but going for nuclear weapons.

Throw in the fact that the Russians offered to build the facilities and provide the LEU (civilian grade uranium for nuclear power generation), and the Iranians refused, instead opting for their own "homegrown" enrichment capability. The Iranian enrichment facilities appear based on the Pakistani P1 and P2 centrifuges; the IR-1 and IR-2 appear to be efforts based on the same designs (all part of the AQ Khan network).

Add to that the ties to the the North Koreans, and you've got a pattern indicating that the Iranians are up to no good.

True enough, but an alternate explanation--home-grown nationalist politics. How would it play in Texas if the president allowed UN inspectors into their nuke generation plants?

163 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 7:40:43am

re: #161 lawhawk

If it were merely about developing enrichment capabilities for a civilian purpose, then why go through all of the secrecy and not submit to IAEA inspections and open and clear verification. Instead, we see repeated efforts to circumvent IAEA and prying eyes by burying enrichment facilities deep underground and dispersed facilities throughout the country so as to avoid the potential for airstrikes.

It's the added costs associated with such efforts that are highly suggestive that they aren't merely looking for civilian enrichment capabilities, but going for nuclear weapons.

Throw in the fact that the Russians offered to build the facilities and provide the LEU (civilian grade uranium for nuclear power generation), and the Iranians refused, instead opting for their own "homegrown" enrichment capability. The Iranian enrichment facilities appear based on the Pakistani P1 and P2 centrifuges; the IR-1 and IR-2 appear to be efforts based on the same designs (all part of the AQ Khan network).

Add to that the ties to the the North Koreans, and you've got a pattern indicating that the Iranians are up to no good.

Very well said. If Iran wanted a nuclear program for civilian purposes it would be a pretty simple affair. It's very clear that they are going to a lot of extra trouble and even risking war for some reason. The only explanation is a weapons program.

164 Targetpractice  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 7:40:53am

re: #161 lawhawk

If it were merely about developing enrichment capabilities for a civilian purpose, then why go through all of the secrecy and not submit to IAEA inspections and open and clear verification. Instead, we see repeated efforts to circumvent IAEA and prying eyes by burying enrichment facilities deep underground and dispersed facilities throughout the country so as to avoid the potential for airstrikes.

It's the added costs associated with such efforts that are highly suggestive that they aren't merely looking for civilian enrichment capabilities, but going for nuclear weapons.

Throw in the fact that the Russians offered to build the facilities and provide the LEU (civilian grade uranium for nuclear power generation), and the Iranians refused, instead opting for their own "homegrown" enrichment capability. The Iranian enrichment facilities appear based on the Pakistani P1 and P2 centrifuges; the IR-1 and IR-2 appear to be efforts based on the same designs (all part of the AQ Khan network).

Add to that the ties to the the North Koreans, and you've got a pattern indicating that the Iranians are up to no good.

Is it possible that the reason the Iranians refused Russia's offer is because it's dependent on continued good relations in order to work? That if Iran and Russia have a falling out in the near term, they'd be left with an incomplete reactor or a reactor that has no fuel?

165 albusteve  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 7:41:02am

re: #162 Decatur Deb

True enough, but an alternate explanation--home-grown nationalist politics. How would it play in Texas if the president allowed UN inspectors into their nuke generation plants?

sadly, we will probably never know...the political aversion to nuclear power is strong

166 kirkspencer  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 7:41:52am

re: #161 lawhawk

If it were merely about developing enrichment capabilities for a civilian purpose, then why go through all of the secrecy and not submit to IAEA inspections and open and clear verification. Instead, we see repeated efforts to circumvent IAEA and prying eyes by burying enrichment facilities deep underground and dispersed facilities throughout the country so as to avoid the potential for airstrikes.

It's the added costs associated with such efforts that are highly suggestive that they aren't merely looking for civilian enrichment capabilities, but going for nuclear weapons.

Throw in the fact that the Russians offered to build the facilities and provide the LEU (civilian grade uranium for nuclear power generation), and the Iranians refused, instead opting for their own "homegrown" enrichment capability. The Iranian enrichment facilities appear based on the Pakistani P1 and P2 centrifuges; the IR-1 and IR-2 appear to be efforts based on the same designs (all part of the AQ Khan network).

Add to that the ties to the the North Koreans, and you've got a pattern indicating that the Iranians are up to no good.

Actually, they submitted to IEA inspection. What they objected to was extraordinary inspection.

Is there reason to be suspicious? yes. But a lot of the reason could be self-fulfilling prophecy and observer bias. (I think they're up to no good, so everything they do is suspicious.)

167 lawhawk  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 7:42:21am

The string of attacks on Bergen County synagogues takes more dangerous turn. Someone threw a firebomb into a home that houses a synagogue and its rabbi and family in Rutherford NJ. The rabbi was burned, and the home suffered some damage.

Authorities are treating an explosive device thrown through the window of an Orthodox temple and home, injuring the rabbi, as attempted murder, the Bergen County prosecutor said.

Prosecutor John Molinelli will hold a press conference at 2 p.m. detailing the attack at Congregation Beth El on Montross Avenue and three other recent incidents against Bergen County synagogues. Molinelli said he does not know whether the Wednesday morning attack is related to those in Paramus, Maywood and Hackensack during the past month.

The rabbi, Nosson Schuman, suffered burns to one of his hands, said Mayor Joe DeSalvo, who lives down the street.

The object thrown through the window of the residential portion of the building started a fire. The building houses the synagogue, a school and the home where the rabbi lives with his wife, five children and his father.

That follows two graffitti incidents at other shuls, and a suspicious fire at a third. Shuls around the county are being urged to review their security arrangements.

168 Decatur Deb  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 7:43:37am

re: #165 albusteve

sadly, we will probably never know...the political aversion to nuclear power is strong

I'm a pro-nuke lefty, we suck from a plant that's 15 miles away. OTOH, I realize that safe nuke generates Big Gub'ment. Let the Navy run the reactors, they have a pretty good record.

169 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 7:45:07am

re: #168 Decatur Deb

I'm a pro-nuke lefty, we suck from a plant that's 15 miles away. OTOH, I realize that safe nuke generates Big Gub'ment. Let the Navy run the reactors, they have a pretty good record.

Just as long as it's not the Army, as they have a relatively poor track record.

170 lawhawk  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 7:46:19am

re: #162 Decatur Deb

Except that the US already does allow verification for international treaty purposes.

Secretary of Energy Federico F. Peña today announced the start of verification activities by the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) on US highly enriched uranium downblending operations. These activities at the Department of Energy's Portsmouth Gaseous Diffusion Plant in Pike County, Ohio, mark a milestone in the Clinton administration's efforts to advance nuclear nonproliferation goals by increasing the ability to verify US operations. The international agency will independently verify the Portsmouth operation to dilute weapons-grade uranium to uranium suitable only for peaceful uses, such as civilian power plants.

'This is the first time the International Atomic Energy Agency has verified the transformation of nuclear material no longer needed for defense use into a form usable by the commercial nuclear industry,' Secretary Peña said in an announcement in Washington, D.C. 'IAEA monitoring provides confidence to the international community that nuclear reductions are moving forward and will be irreversible. The verification activity here will also provide the knowledge needed to conduct similar activities in other countries.'

That dates back to 1997 btw...

Much more recently (updated as of February 2011), the IAEA conducts inspections pursuant to the NPT.

171 reine.de.tout  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 7:46:50am

re: #162 Decatur Deb

True enough, but an alternate explanation--home-grown nationalist politics. How would it play in Texas if the president allowed UN inspectors into their nuke generation plants?

??

IIRC, Texas is one of the 50 states in the U.S. There is no "national" Texas. And wouldn't their nuke facilities be regulated by the feds, not by the state? I'm missing something in your comparison, here . . .

172 Decatur Deb  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 7:48:01am

re: #169 thedopefishlives

Just as long as it's not the Army, as they have a relatively poor track record.

I've crossed paths with Army nuke for decades--including a trip inside the decommissioned reactor room at Aberdeen and a fool's journey all over the place to track down Gulf War trophies. Some of the Personnel Reliability Program stuff has it's own folklore.

173 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 7:50:36am

Iran blames nuclear inspectors for the assassination....

'IAEA leaked secret info to Iran enemy'

A senior lawmaker says assassination of Iranian scientist Mostafa Ahmadi Roshan proves that the confidential information provided to international bodies by Iran has been leaked to the country's enemies.


“The International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) must be trusted by nations because nations and governments give their documents to the agency," said speaker of the Majlis (parliament) National Security and Foreign Policy Committee Kazem Jalali on Wednesday.

“How the enemies of [the Islamic] establishment have obtained the names and information of our country's elite is a question we would like to know the answer to,” he added.

Jalali stressed that the IAEA, international community and the UN nuclear agency's member states using their membership against the Islamic Republic must be held accountable for their actions.

174 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 7:50:39am

re: #172 Decatur Deb

I've crossed paths with Army nuke for decades--including a trip inside the decommissioned reactor room at Aberdeen and a fool's journey all over the place to track down Gulf War trophies. Some of the Personnel Reliability Program stuff has it's own folklore.

And then there's the Air Force, but at least when they lose a nuke, they do it right.

175 Gus  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 7:50:49am

Mah brain hurtz.

176 Decatur Deb  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 7:51:08am

re: #170 lawhawk

Except that the US already does allow verification for international treaty purposes.

That dates back to 1997 btw...

Much more recently (updated as of February 2011), the IAEA conducts inspections pursuant to the NPT.

re: #171 reine.de.tout

??

IIRC, Texas is one of the 50 states in the U.S. There is no "national" Texas. And wouldn't their nuke facilities be regulated by the feds, not by the state? I'm missing something in your comparison, here . . .

Good thing that wasn't set up under this president.

(Reine--Just talking about nuke plants in the state--it would cause a reaction like the "Warsaw Pact" forces at your Ft. Polk.)

177 Eventual Carrion  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 7:51:57am

re: #163 Killgore Trout

Very well said. If Iran wanted a nuclear program for civilian purposes it would be a pretty simple affair. It's very clear that they are going to a lot of extra trouble and even risking war for some reason. The only explanation is a weapons program.

Or that other nations are balls to the wall determined that Iran cannot have any nuclear (for good or bad) and they know that those other nations will either cheer on any attempt to destroy that capability or actively participate in that destruction. Hence the need for strong security and secrecy around any facility that has anything to do with nuclear.

178 Gus  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 7:53:34am

Snowing again.

179 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 7:55:00am

re: #178 Gus 802

Snowing again.

Waiting for it to reach here. I'm guessing it will be perfectly timed to disrupt my afternoon commute home.

180 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 7:55:01am

re: #170 lawhawk

Except that the US already does allow verification for international treaty purposes.

That dates back to 1997 btw...

Much more recently (updated as of February 2011), the IAEA conducts inspections pursuant to the NPT.

Oooh, Hans Brix!

Youtube Video
181 Gus  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 7:55:18am

@BorowitzReport Andy Borowitz
BREAKING: New Hampshire Vote Reflects Growing Tolerance Towards Assholes #NHPrimary

182 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 7:56:18am

re: #178 Gus 802

We've had the mildest winter so far of the past ten years. Today? It's rainy and gonna be 41. Yesterday was 50.

Last winter was snowy as hell and cold as a witch's tit.

183 Gus  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 7:56:55am

re: #179 thedopefishlives

Waiting for it to reach here. I'm guessing it will be perfectly timed to disrupt my afternoon commute home.

We mortals have no control over the snow so don't blame us. It's controlled by Tim Tebow.

//

184 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 7:57:09am

I've been going out with just a sweater, no gloves, no hat.

Strange for January in Chicagoland.

185 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 7:57:45am

re: #183 Gus 802

We mortals have no control over the snow so don't blame us. It's controlled by Tim Tebow.

//

Better he than Chuck Norris.

186 Decatur Deb  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 7:58:24am

re: #182 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

We've had the mildest winter so far of the past ten years. Today? It's rainy and gonna be 41. Yesterday was 50.

Last winter was snowy as hell and cold as a witch's tit.

We were cold enough last winter to produce a good pear crop in the summer. So far, we can't look forward to a repeat.

*Mandatory disclaimer: 'Weather, not climate'.

187 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 7:59:59am

re: #182 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

We've had the mildest winter so far of the past ten years. Today? It's rainy and gonna be 41. Yesterday was 50.

Last winter was snowy as hell and cold as a witch's tit.

The Arctic air is finally making its presence felt here in the wild north country. We've gone 30 days with above average temperatures, but today looks to be the last, as we'll be down into the single digits tonight and probably won't break 20 degrees F (-7 degrees C) any time soon.

188 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 8:00:04am

the audio book I'm listening to has a narrator that sounds just like Ellen Dengeneres. Very Good, but very wierd. I keep picturing Ellen expecting it to be funny. It's not--murder mystery.

189 AK-47%  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 8:00:20am

re: #186 Decatur Deb

*Mandatory disclaimer: 'Weather, not climate'.

I don't know the difference between science and mythology, why do you expect me to understand the distinction between weather and climate?

/

190 Gus  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 8:00:38am

Iranian scientist assassinated? You ever watch some thriller blockbuster movie and there's always this one character that get shot in the head right before the finale. Like on "Live Free or Die Hard" where most of the computer guys and hackers get killed by the bad guy? Even though they were helping the bad guy? Yeah, like that.

191 Decatur Deb  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 8:01:36am

re: #187 thedopefishlives

The Arctic air is finally making its presence felt here in the wild north country. We've gone 30 days with above average temperatures, but today looks to be the last, as we'll be down into the single digits tonight and probably won't break 20 degrees F (-7 degrees C) any time soon.

Pity Ding.

192 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 8:01:51am

re: #187 thedopefishlives

The Arctic air is finally making its presence felt here in the wild north country. We've gone 30 days with above average temperatures, but today looks to be the last, as we'll be down into the single digits tonight and probably won't break 20 degrees F (-7 degrees C) any time soon.

Well. It is fucking Winter.

We're supposed to have seasons!

Joy, fun, and seasons in the [WHACK!]

193 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 8:02:11am

re: #191 Decatur Deb

Pity Ding.

Heh, I'm actually enjoying the cold. This unnaturally warm January has been driving me crazy.

194 Decatur Deb  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 8:03:01am

re: #192 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Well. It is fucking Winter.

We're supposed to have seasons!

Joy, fun, and seasons in the [WHACK!]

Don't be so Le Moribond.

195 Gus  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 8:03:22am

re: #194 Decatur Deb

Don't be so Le Moribond.

Did he win the Tour de France?

196 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 8:03:31am

re: #188 ggt

I'm listening to the Robert Redford biography. It's being read by an author who sounds EXACTLY like Robert Redford.

Which sounds amazingly egotistical when the narrator reads something that's complimentary to Bob.

Yeah, I can call him Bob. I'm reading his biography.

197 lawhawk  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 8:04:26am

Joran van der Sloot, key suspect in disappearance of U.S. teen Natalee Holloway, pleads guilty to killing Peruvian woman.

198 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 8:08:12am

re: #197 lawhawk

Joran van der Sloot, key suspect in disappearance of U.S. teen Natalee Holloway, pleads guilty to killing Peruvian woman.

Plea bargain?

199 lawhawk  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 8:10:03am

re: #198 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

It's a move in Peruvian courts to get a reduced sentence.

Under Peruvian law, a prison term for a "sincere confession" to a murder is normally much shorter than one for an outright guilty plea. Prosecutors have said van der Sloot robbed and killed Flores before fleeing the scene of a crime to Chile.

But on the first day of his trial in Lima on Friday, he told the court he should not be charged with aggravating circumstances of the murder that could lengthen his sentence.

200 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 8:12:15am

re: #199 lawhawk

Well. I'm assuming that Peru is a less than ideal place to spend the rest of your life (a boy can dream, can't he?) in prison.

201 Gus  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 8:12:24am

Hey! It's snowing.

//

202 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 8:14:18am

re: #200 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Well. I'm assuming that Peru is a less than ideal place to spend the rest of your life (a boy can dream, can't he?) in prison.

What was the name of the American hippie who got sentenced to hard time in Peru, for something something with the "Shining Path" (Maoist terrorist group)? Lori Bernstein?

203 Lidane  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 8:15:31am

Republican National Committee Files Brief Seeking To Allow Corporate Funding Of Campaigns

One of the few remaining limits on corporations’ power to buy and sell American elections is that corporations are not allowed to give money directly to federal candidates. Citizens United frees them to spend billions of dollars running ads or otherwise trying to change the result of an election to suit their interests, but corporations cutting checks directly to candidates or to political committees such as the Republican National Committee is one of the few things the Supreme Court’s conservatives have not yet imposed upon the country.

If the RNC gets its way, however, that will soon change. In a brief filed yesterday in the Fourth Circuit, the RNC argues that the federal ban on corporate donations is unconstitutional in large part because it applies across the board to all corporations.

204 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 8:19:05am

re: #192 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Well. It is fucking Winter.

We're supposed to have seasons!

Joy, fun, and seasons in the [WHACK!]

NOW the switch in my brain that plays that idiotic song won't shut off. This is your fault.

206 Decatur Deb  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 8:22:54am

We'll get the weather change tonight, but nothing like that of dopefish--have to go batten down the hoophouse skin as the wind picks up. BBL.

207 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 8:25:10am

re: #206 Decatur Deb

We'll get the weather change tonight, but nothing like that of dopefish--have to go batten down the hoophouse skin as the wind picks up. BBL.

Eh, you have the lakes to defend you from the Canadian invasion. We, on the other hand, are at the mercy of the winds.

208 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 8:25:27am

re: #204 negativ

You. Are. Welcome.

209 Lidane  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 8:27:16am

Lawyer Defending South Carolina's Voter ID Law Thinks DOJ Is Biased Against White People

South Carolina officials plan to file suit against the federal government because the Justice Department stopped the state from implementing a voter ID law that the state’s own statistics showed would have a disparate impact on non-white voters. Fighting on their behalf will be a former DOJ official who claimed that the Civil Rights Division is opposed to protecting the civil rights of whites and who defended the Bush-era politicalization of the division by Bradley Schlozman as an effort to “diversify.”

South Carolina has hired former Voting Section Chief Christopher Coates, who defied DOJ’s instructions and testified before the U.S. Commission on Civil Rights during the Republican-led probe into the infamous New Black Panther Party case, a spokesman for the South Carolina attorney general’s office told The State newspaper.

Former colleagues said that Coates had an ideological conversion after an African-American woman was chosen over him as deputy section chief in July of 2000. Schlozman, who was found to have hired lawyers for their conservative credentials and referred to liberals as “commies” and “mold spores,” called Coates a “true member of the team.”

210 Shropshire_Slasher  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 8:29:02am

Joran van der Sloot pleaded guilty in a Peruvian court Wednesday to killing a young woman in Lima in 2010

Read more: [Link: www.nypost.com...]

211 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 8:29:57am

re: #209 Lidane

"Help, help! I'm being repressed!"

212 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 8:30:25am

re: #209 Lidane

Why is it always the same with these people? They propose some half-assed racially discriminative law, they get called on it, then they say their opponents hate white people.

213 aagcobb  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 8:31:16am

re: #203 Lidane

Republican National Committee Files Brief Seeking To Allow Corporate Funding Of Campaigns

Why don't we just cut to the chase, and give corporations the right to vote and hold public office, so we can quit pretending that government exists for the purpose of helping flesh and blood people, rather than fictional, corporate people.

214 Eventual Carrion  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 8:34:31am

re: #213 aagcobb

Why don't we just cut to the chase, and give corporations the right to vote and hold public office, so we can quit pretending that government exists for the purpose of helping flesh and blood people, rather than fictional, corporate people.

Gotta get that foreign money into the political coffers any way they can. Saying it came from a corp is much better than saying it came from the House of Saud.

215 AK-47%  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 8:37:16am

re: #213 aagcobb

Why don't we just cut to the chase, and give corporations the right to vote and hold public office, so we can quit pretending that government exists for the purpose of helping flesh and blood people, rather than fictional, corporate people.

and their votes should be measured and apportioned as a share of the GDP. What's good for Standard Oil, etc...


/

216 Obdicut  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 8:40:13am

re: #203 Lidane

Wow, that's blatant.

217 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 8:40:43am

re: #182 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

We've had the mildest winter so far of the past ten years. Today? It's rainy and gonna be 41. Yesterday was 50.

Last winter was snowy as hell and cold as a witch's tit.

Yeah, but is it in a brass bra?

218 Gus  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 8:44:33am

Republican National Committee Files Brief Seeking To Allow Corporate Funding Of Campaigns

Here it comes! Corporate logos and patches.

219 allegro  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 8:45:22am

re: #209 Lidane

And in other news... brought to you by the state of Arkansas...

Image: mlk_day.jpg

220 AK-47%  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 8:46:29am

re: #218 Gus 802

Republican National Committee Files Brief Seeking To Allow Corporate Funding Of Campaigns

Here it comes! Corporate logos and patches.

That would make it a bit more transparent: impose the a condition that all candidates must display the logos of all their major corporate donors on their podiums whenever they give a public speech or appear at a debate.

221 Gus  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 8:46:32am

re: #219 allegro

And in other news... brought to you by the state of Arkansas...

Image: mlk_day.jpg

Right. AND Robert E. Lee. That doesn't mean anything. They're just honoring the man.

//

222 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 8:46:38am

One thing that I keep getting fed up with about Truthers specifically, and conspiracy theorists in general, is how disconnected they are from the rules of logic and debate. I was just reading one Twoofer's comments where he stated that as a defendant, if the prosecution fails to prove that he committed a crime, he is under no obligation to show who did. The analogy was meant to convey that he doesn't have to have an alternative hypothesis for the towers' collapse, but what he - and many Twoofers - fail to understand is that _they are the prosecution_. It isn't enough to demonstrate an inconsistency in the official story of whatever conspiracy you're peddling - you have to bring evidence to the table to prove your own theory. "Just asking questions" doesn't fly.

223 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 8:46:51am

re: #217 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Yeah, but is it in a brass bra?

On the shady side.

224 AK-47%  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 8:47:57am

re: #217 OhCrapIHaveACrushOnSarahPalin

Yeah, but is it in a brass bra?

brass monkeys!

225 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 8:48:15am

re: #222 thedopefishlives

One thing that I keep getting fed up with about Truthers specifically, and conspiracy theorists in general, is how disconnected they are from the rules of logic and debate. I was just reading one Twoofer's comments where he stated that as a defendant, if the prosecution fails to prove that he committed a crime, he is under no obligation to show who did. The analogy was meant to convey that he doesn't have to have an alternative hypothesis for the towers' collapse, but what he - and many Twoofers - fail to understand is that _they are the prosecution_. It isn't enough to demonstrate an inconsistency in the official story of whatever conspiracy you're peddling - you have to bring evidence to the table to prove your own theory. "Just asking questions" doesn't fly.

1000 times yes!

I call these types JAQ-offs.

226 Obdicut  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 8:51:04am

Heh. Nifty. My wife had to go on a really boring building safety tour as part of some bizarre 'public health' aspect to her med school education.

But, though boring, she got out if it the best bit of university apparel ever to send to her Steelworker Union dad:

Image: 104_0052.JPG

Image: 104_0050.JPG

227 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 8:56:22am

re: #225 Sergey Romanov

1000 times yes!

I call these types JAQ-offs.

I love that term. It cracks me up every time I see someone using it.

228 Archangelus  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 8:56:44am

re: #222 thedopefishlives

It isn't enough to demonstrate an inconsistency in the official story of whatever conspiracy you're peddling - you have to bring evidence to the table to prove your own theory. "Just asking questions" doesn't fly.

Amen to that!

229 Gus  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 8:56:53am

Isolation ends for Norway mass killer Anders Behring Breivik
January 10, 2012 12:16PM

NORWEGIAN far-right terrorist Anders Behring Breivik, who massacred 77 people in Norway last July, will be permitted to receive visitors today, ending almost six months of isolation.

The decision will allow Mr Breivik, if he wishes, to give his first interviews with the media, and also potentially to receive visits from supporters of his extreme anti-Islamic ideology.

Odd Groen, a lawyer for Mr Breivik, said his client had already received requests from 'fans' seeking to visit him in prison.

230 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 8:57:59am

re: #229 Gus 802

Isolation ends for Norway mass killer Anders Behring Breivik
January 10, 2012 12:16PM

I would be keeping a close eye on the visitor list, if I were Norway.

/Wonder if Robert Spencer and Pam Geller are on that list

231 AK-47%  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 8:59:36am

re: #230 thedopefishlives

I would be keeping a close eye on the visitor list, if I were Norway.

/Wonder if Robert Spencer and Pam Geller are on that list

I suspect they will not risk appearing in person but would not be suprised if they are sending greetings by way of a friend or sympathizer...

232 wrenchwench  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 9:00:13am

re: #229 Gus 802

Odd Groen, a lawyer for Mr Breivik, said his client had already received requests from 'fans' seeking to visit him in prison.

I hope they keep a list for future reference.

233 Gus  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 9:01:46am

re: #232 wrenchwench

I hope they keep a list for future reference.

No doubt Fjordman will be the first visitor.

//

234 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 9:02:24am

re: #233 Gus 802

No doubt Fjordman will be the first visitor.

//

Hasn't he been, you know, pining for the fjords?/

235 Gus  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 9:04:37am

Speaking of psychos.

@mmfa Media Matters
RW blogger & frequent Fox guest Pam Geller: Our "most dangerous president" sounds like Kim Jong-il or Ahmadinejad [Link: t.co...]

236 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 9:05:33am

re: #235 Gus 802

Speaking of psychos.

@mmfa Media Matters
RW blogger & frequent Fox guest Pam Geller: Our "most dangerous president" sounds like Kim Jong-il or Ahmadinejad [Link: t.co...]

Whereas she sounds like a shrieking harpy. Just sayin'.

237 Archangelus  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 9:06:19am

re: #229 Gus 802

Odd Groen, a lawyer for Mr Breivik, said his client had already received requests from 'fans' seeking to visit him in prison.

I get the impression that some of those "fans" are people who are just hoping for a chance to get up close and personal with Mr. Breivik... and not in a manner which bodes well for his continued well-being/existence...

238 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 9:06:46am

re: #237 Archangelus

I get the impression that some of those "fans" are people who are just hoping for a chance to get up close and personal with Mr. Breivik... and not in a manner which bodes well for his continued well-being/existence...

Fans of the Jack Ruby persuasion, perhaps?

239 Gus  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 9:07:11am

re: #237 Archangelus

I get the impression that some of those "fans" are people who are just hoping for a chance to get up close and personal with Mr. Breivik... and not in a manner which bodes well for his continued well-being/existence...

Could be. Then you get those oddballs that want to develop a relationship with him and possibly marry him.

240 AK-47%  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 9:08:42am

re: #237 Archangelus

I get the impression that some of those "fans" are people who are just hoping for a chance to get up close and personal with Mr. Breivik... and not in a manner which bodes well for his continued well-being/existence...

I think it is mostly people who want to raise their own "street cred" in certain circles by showing "solidarity" with AB

241 Gus  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 9:09:31am

Oh boy. Read this...

[Link: twitter.com...]

242 Gus  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 9:11:59am

@Shoq Shoq Value
HOLY FUCK! @Current, are you SERIOUSLY tweeting Prison Planet and their hashtags? REALLY RE bit.ly/wZu05J #p2 @algore

And here's the Tweet from CurrentTV:

@current Current TV
Skyscraper building boom may be sign of impending economic collapse, warn experts bit.ly/yLP1Zh via @infowarsstories

243 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 9:14:09am

re: #241 Gus 802

WTF!

244 Gus  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 9:14:15am

Once they jump the shark there's no going back.

245 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 9:15:28am

re: #244 Gus 802

I'll wait still. Maybe some moonbat secretary on twitter just needs to be fired.

246 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 9:15:49am

re: #241 Gus 802

Oh boy. Read this...

[Link: twitter.com...]

Wow, that is indeed the Al Gore...

Tune into @current tonight. I'll join @jengranholm and @cenkuygur for coverage of the NH primary #politicallydirect.

Not surprising. Alex Jones has always had plenty of appeal to the radical left.

247 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 9:15:55am

re: #245 Sergey Romanov

I'll wait still. Maybe some moonbat secretary on twitter just needs to be fired.

Or perhaps just got fired... It wouldn't be the worst corporate "I quit" prank in history.

248 Gus  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 9:16:05am

re: #245 Sergey Romanov

I'll wait still. Maybe some moonbat secretary on twitter just needs to be fired.

We never wait for the RW.

249 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 9:17:32am

re: #248 Gus 802

If they fire whoever did this and publicly apologize, that would be enough afaic.

250 Gus  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 9:18:16am

re: #246 Killgore Trout

Wow, that is indeed the Al Gore...

Not surprising. Alex Jones has always had plenty of appeal to the radical left.

Probably testing out a new market. That place has changed since they took on what's his face, Keith Olbermann who's still a douche. Now they have that crypto-libertarian big mouth Cenk Uygur.

251 Lidane  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 9:19:29am

Somewhere out there are a few 'splodey heads who can't figure out how to react yet:

GOP Strategist Frank Luntz: ‘Conservatives Should Not Be Defending Capitalism’

Youtube Video
252 Gus  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 9:19:43am

re: #249 Sergey Romanov

If they fire whoever did this and publicly apologize, that would be enough afaic.

Not gonna happen.

253 Gus  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 9:20:22am

So Current has been pimping Infowars for some time now.

254 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 9:20:25am

re: #252 Gus 802

Not gonna happen.

GAH!

255 lawhawk  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 9:21:48am

re: #242 Gus 802

It ultimately links back to a report in the British Independent, which claims that a Barclays report indicates that skyscraper building booms in India and China may be the result of a speculative boom that is about to go bust - and it's written so as to correlate skyscraper construction with economic turmoil.

Barclays Capital has mapped an "unhealthy correlation" between construction of the world's tallest buildings and looming financial crises over the last 140 years, including the Great Depression and the Asian financial crisis.

Today, China is home to over half the 124 skyscrapers now under construction worldwide.

India, which has just two skyscrapers, is building 14, including the world's second tallest tower, in the financial capital Mumbai.

Barclays said the clusters of building activity usually coincide with periods of easy credit, excessive optimism and rising land prices, which often occur before market corrections.

"Building booms are a sign of excess credit," Andrew Lawrence of Barclays Capital in Hong Kong, said.

But as you say, why would anyone use Jones' site for news in the first place...

256 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 9:22:36am

re: #252 Gus 802

Not gonna happen.

Heh.

257 Gus  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 9:22:42am

re: #254 Sergey Romanov

GAH!

First I ever heard of this. Al Gore is allowing them to pimp Infowars. Holy smokes. That's bad.

258 AK-47%  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 9:22:46am

re: #251 Lidane

Somewhere out there are a few 'splodey heads who can't figure out how to react yet:

GOP Strategist Frank Luntz: ‘Conservatives Should Not Be Defending Capitalism’

[Video]

read carefully, this is just them clearing up their terminology and talking points: replacing the term "rich" with "job creator" and "capitalism" with "economic freedom".

And like all other freedoms, economic freedom should be absolute, Which includes the right to shout "fire" in a crowded stock exchange...


/

259 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 9:23:04am

re: #257 Gus 802

:(

260 im_gumby_damnit  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 9:23:04am

I like this. A lot.

Wish we had more of this type of "statesmanship":

•That to promote harmony in diversity is a responsible task of religion and statesmanship

261 Gus  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 9:24:00am

re: #256 Killgore Trout

Heh.

Initiate reflexive defense procedure in 3, 2, 1...

But Al Gore has no control over what happens at Current!!11ty

//Butthurt

262 Kronocide  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 9:24:42am

re: #244 Gus 802

Once they jump the shark there's no going back.

There's no reverse shark jump? Can you jump over another shark?

Methinks somebody will get a serious talking to.

263 Gus  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 9:25:20am

re: #262 BigPapa

There's no reverse shark jump? Can you jump over another shark?

Methinks somebody will get a serious talking to.

We'll see.

I'm not going to hold my breath.

264 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 9:26:13am

re: #263 Gus 802

Some ueber-janitor is needed in those Augean stables.

265 lawhawk  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 9:26:16am

re: #262 BigPapa

No, that's when you nuke the fridge.

266 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 9:26:23am

re: #262 BigPapa

There's no reverse shark jump? Can you jump over another shark?Methinks somebody will get a serious talking to.

Only if you are wearing a black leather jacket.

267 Lidane  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 9:27:47am

re: #258 ralphieboy

Oh, I know. But there will still be people on the wingnut right who reject "cleaning up the language" and who say that capitalism should be defended, not just changed to the phrase 'economic freedom'.

268 Kronocide  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 9:28:36am

Oh wow. The irony is InfoWars is staunchly denialist about AGW. Interesting to see how this all hashes out.

269 Gus  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 9:29:09am

It's growing! I love Twitter.

270 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 9:29:13am

re: #268 BigPapa

Oh wow. The irony is InfoWars is staunchly denialist about AGW. Interesting to see how this all hashes out.

A classic shot in the foot.

271 Kronocide  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 9:30:56am

re: #267 Lidane

Oh, I know. But there will still be people on the wingnut right who reject "cleaning up the language" and who say that capitalism should be defended, not just changed to the phrase 'economic freedom'.

Capitalism doesn't need defense. It just needs regulation. Somehow a tax increase or regulatory proposal has become an 'attack.'

272 AK-47%  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 9:31:42am

re: #267 Lidane

Oh, I know. But there will still be people on the wingnut right who reject "cleaning up the language" and who say that capitalism should be defended, not just changed to the phrase 'economic freedom'.

Capitalism is based on greed and self-interest, which like any other forces of nature, has to be channeled in order to produce benefits.

Flowing water can be beneficial in an irrigation ditch or powering a turbine. But uncontrolled, it can wipe out whole cities. Likewise with the forces of capitalism.

We let ourselves be convinced that these economic dams and levees we had constructed were interfering with creation of wealth. We found out the hard way what happens when the levee breaks...

273 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 9:31:59am

re: #265 lawhawk

No, that's when you nuke the fridge.

I'm still pissed off over that.

274 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 9:32:20am

re: #264 Sergey Romanov

Some ueber-janitor is needed in those Augean stables.

Truly a Herculean task.
//

275 Lidane  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 9:33:11am

re: #268 BigPapa

Capitalism doesn't need defense. It just needs regulation. Somehow a tax increase or regulatory proposal has become an 'attack.'

Don't you see? Imposing rules on capitalism is an attack on freedom. America doesn't need to live by any rules. We're exceptional.

Why do you hate America?

///

276 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 9:33:44am

re: #273 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I'm still pissed off over that.

It's hardly the worst thing George Lucas has ever done to one of his movie franchises.

277 Gus  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 9:34:56am

Been a busy month for me:

[x] Andrew Breitbart
[x] Robert Spencer
[x] Glenn Greenwald
[x] Al Gore
[x] Arianna Huffington

//See. I am fair and balanced.

//

278 Lidane  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 9:35:30am

re: #276 thedopefishlives

It's hardly the worst thing George Lucas has ever done to one of his movie franchises.

Youtube Video
279 Archangelus  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 9:36:07am

re: #276 thedopefishlives

It's hardly the worst thing George Lucas has ever done to one of his movie franchises.

True enough (that "honor" was "bestowed" upon the Star Wars flicks), but still...

280 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 9:36:39am

re: #276 thedopefishlives

It's hardly the worst thing George Lucas has ever done to one of his movie franchises.

Han shot first.

281 Gus  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 9:37:17am

Thanks for the RT, WW. ;)

282 wrenchwench  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 9:37:42am

re: #281 Gus 802

Thanks for the RT, WW. ;)

Shhh....

283 wrenchwench  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 9:37:53am

You're welcome.

284 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 9:38:31am

Going up to my friend's cabin on the river tonight. He's a dear, dear friend and his father died three weeks ago. Haven't seen him since.

Thought we'd have some manly time together, sit around the fire, get drunk, I'd let him heal a little; wake up in the morning and go to work.

Just found out (along with the fact that it's raining) his wife, daughter and granddaughter are also going to be there.

He's trying to convince me to spend the night. One bedroom with a loft? I don't think so.

So now? I just get to drive two hours to hang out for three hours then drive home. What's the fun in that? /

285 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 9:38:42am

re: #279 Archangelus

True enough (that "honor" was "bestowed" upon the Star Wars flicks), but still...

I know, it doesn't make it any easier to swallow. At least Crystal Skull didn't completely ruin the Indiana Jones franchise, though.

286 Kronocide  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 9:41:23am

I RT'ed. I hope Boehlert picks this up he's pretty snappy.

287 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 9:42:21am

Looney Toons are on.

Sylvester and enemy cat are hitting each other with an ash tray and a gun.

Try to get that produced now.

288 wrenchwench  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 9:42:58am

re: #284 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Going up to my friend's cabin on the river tonight. He's a dear, dear friend and his father died three weeks ago. Haven't seen him since.

Thought we'd have some manly time together, sit around the fire, get drunk, I'd let him heal a little; wake up in the morning and go to work.

Just found out (along with the fact that it's raining) his wife, daughter and granddaughter are also going to be there.

He's trying to convince me to spend the night. One bedroom with a loft? I don't think so.

So now? I just get to drive two hours to hang out for three hours then drive home. What's the fun in that? /

Maybe you can have some manly time together after the womenfolk go to bed.

289 Kronocide  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 9:44:13am

re: #287 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Looney Toons are on.

Sylvester and enemy cat are hitting each other with an ash tray and a gun.

Try to get that produced now.

Well, there are GOP debates....

290 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 9:44:43am

re: #288 wrenchwench

Maybe you can have some manly time together after the womenfolk go to bed.

I love his wife and his daughter dated my son for three years.

But, don't wanna spend the night in a 600SF one bedroom, one bath house with four other people, (thankyouverymuch).

291 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 9:44:47am

re: #287 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Looney Toons are on.

Sylvester and enemy cat are hitting each other with an ash tray and a gun.

Try to get that produced now.

There was one cartoon (Sylvester? or Tom & Jerry?) that featured a headless Black woman. I mean, she had a head, but you never saw her face, just her body.

292 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 9:44:49am

Anonymous 'Punishes' Israel After Tehran Bomb Blast Kills Scientist

The hacker called on other Anon members across the globe to attack Israeli government websites and infrastructures in response of the blast that murdered Mostafa Ahmadi-Roshan, an academic who also worked at the Natanz uranium enrichment facility.

"Hackers across the globe: The Israeli government abuses the sovereignty of Iran and has waged war on its scholars .gov.il ownage starts..NOW," he tweeted.
...
UPDATED: Anon Sabu tweeted that progresses in attacking Israeli government websites are"already in the works", citing a statement posted on Pastebin .

293 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 9:46:15am

re: #292 Killgore Trout

Anonymous 'Punishes' Israel After Tehran Bomb Blast Kills Scientist

Wow that's dumb. Mossad will so harvest their IPs.

294 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 9:46:28am

re: #291 Alouette

There was one cartoon (Sylvester? or Tom & Jerry?) that featured a headless Black woman. I mean, she had a head, but you never saw her face, just her body.

She was uh... plump?

295 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 9:47:17am

re: #294 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

She was uh... plump?

She was uh..."the help"

296 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 9:47:39am

re: #287 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Looney Toons are on.

Sylvester and enemy cat are hitting each other with an ash tray and a gun.

Try to get that produced now.

[Link: looney.goldenagecartoons.com...]

Youtube Video
297 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 9:49:49am

re: #290 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I love his wife and his daughter dated my son for three years.

But, don't wanna spend the night in a 600SF one bedroom, one bath house with four other people, (thankyouverymuch).

My family has a small cabin like that. (Family being extended family. My parents built a bunk house just to make two different places to sleep.)

Every year for about three years now my uncle (who had three sisters and fourteen nieces) throws a guys-only dinner with good steak and guys-time during elk hunting season for all the menfolk now in the family (son, three nephews, brothers-in-law, husbands of nieces, and great-nephews).

I think if I showed up I would be shown the door, gently. But I wouldn't try, even if I wanted to. It's their time.

298 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 9:49:55am

re: #296 negativ

And I can take or leave it if I pleeeeaaaase.

299 Gus  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 9:50:27am

Looks like it's both Infowars and PrisonPlanet. There's even on video with Alex Jones thanking them. And here Alex Jones thinks that AGW is a NWO conspiracy brought on by George Soros and the internationalists!

This sure doesn't pass the smell test. Someone needs to clean up their website and thy name is Current.

300 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 9:50:50am

re: #293 Alouette

Wow that's dumb. Mossad will so harvest their IPs.

Anon posted usernames and passwords for SCADA (industrial control systems) of utilities in Israel. It's definitely not something they should mess with.

301 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 9:52:12am

re: #295 Alouette

She was uh..."the help"

I was saying that I remember that.

302 Lidane  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 9:52:18am

re: #299 Gus 802

This sure doesn't pass the smell test. Someone needs to clean up their website and thy name is Current.

Ugh. Everything about Alex Jones pisses me off. I can't believe people are dumb enough to take his ideas seriously. He's a paranoid crank.

303 Killgore Trout  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 9:52:51am
YahyaQ8 يحيى الفضلي
@
@IbtihalAlshalal attacking about escana israel syste and Israel+Ministry+of+Foreign+Affairs just starts by some of #anonymous members
304 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 9:53:21am

re: #272 ralphieboy

Capitalism is based on greed and self-interest, which like any other forces of nature, has to be channeled in order to produce benefits.

Flowing water can be beneficial in an irrigation ditch or powering a turbine. But uncontrolled, it can wipe out whole cities. Likewise with the forces of capitalism.

We let ourselves be convinced that these economic dams and levees we had constructed were interfering with creation of wealth. We found out the hard way what happens when the levee breaks...

Everyone moves to Chicago?
;)

305 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 9:54:56am

re: #297 EmmmieG

We're not "macho manly" types.

His father died, and I was hoping to get him away from the people he wants to look "strong" around. He was a great comfort to me when my mother died; and only because no one else was around.

306 Obdicut  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 9:55:15am

re: #299 Gus 802

Yeah, looks like most of those posts are in Community.

There are also posts there saying:

Al Gore is a Benedict Arnold, eco-fascist, NWO scum

Looks like it's incompetently managed.

307 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 9:55:49am

re: #306 Obdicut

Yes, but now they tweet it.

308 Gus  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 9:57:20am

Firing mortars! Enfilading fire! ;)

//

309 Gus  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 9:57:57am

Oh snap.

@Gus_802 Gus
@Shoq @algore And having an "Alex Jones community" @Current makes about as much sense as having a "David Duke community" at the NAACP.

310 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 9:58:09am

re: #308 Gus 802

Firing mortars! Enfilading fire! ;)

//

Frying mortals, you say? Yum! /hastur

311 Obdicut  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 9:58:10am

re: #307 Sergey Romanov

Yeah, that's a nifty new low.

Their forums are a fucking mess. Tons of AGW denial. What a counterproductive pile of crap.

312 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 9:58:52am

re: #309 Gus 802

All I can think is "stupid stupid stupid".

313 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 9:59:43am

re: #312 Sergey Romanov

See why I don't go to other sites?

314 wrenchwench  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 9:59:44am

re: #297 EmmmieG

My family has a small cabin like that. (Family being extended family. My parents built a bunk house just to make two different places to sleep.)

Every year for about three years now my uncle (who had three sisters and fourteen nieces) throws a guys-only dinner with good steak and guys-time during elk hunting season for all the menfolk now in the family (son, three nephews, brothers-in-law, husbands of nieces, and great-nephews).

I think if I showed up I would be shown the door, gently. But I wouldn't try, even if I wanted to. It's their time.

I have an aunt who is ten years older than me who sort of forced her way into the formerly men-and-boys-only hunting trips to Northern Wisconsin. She was accepted, and got to know her father better than any of his other daughters. I think her wedge was her poker playing.

315 Gus  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 10:00:12am

re: #306 Obdicut

Yeah, looks like most of those posts are in Community.

There are also posts there saying:

Looks like it's incompetently managed.

I'm available. I'd be willing to clean up Current. All I ask is 75K to start and moving expenses. And a 25K advance.

//

316 Darth Vader Gargoyle  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 10:00:15am

re: #305 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

We're not "macho manly" types.

It's true. He drinks Coors Light.
//

Sorry for your friend's loss and glad he has you on his team.

317 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 10:00:46am

re: #308 Gus 802

Firing mortars! Enfilading fire! ;)

//

Pin them down and then call in the air strike!

318 Gus  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 10:01:35am

re: #317 oaktree

Pin them down and then call in the air strike!

30 seconds!

//

319 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 10:01:45am

re: #316 rwdflynavy

It's true. He drinks Coors Light.
//

Sorry for your friend's loss and glad he has you on his team.

He's a Scotch and Cigars type. Me? Coors Light and Marlboro Ultra Lights.

But I get your point.

320 Lord Baron Viscount Duke Earl Count Planckton  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 10:01:52am

re: #313 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

See why I don't go to other sites?

But porn?../

321 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 10:02:04am

re: #317 oaktree

Pin them down and then call in the air strike!

Nuke the site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.

322 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 10:03:15am

re: #319 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

He's a Scotch and Cigars type. Me? Coors Light and Marlboro Ultra Lights.

But I get your point.

You smoke?

323 kirkspencer  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 10:04:00am

re: #287 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Looney Toons are on.

Sylvester and enemy cat are hitting each other with an ash tray and a gun.

Try to get that produced now.

I cite Beavis and Butthead as counterpoint.

324 Gus  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 10:04:01am

re: #319 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

He's a Scotch and Cigars type. Me? Coors Light and Marlboro Ultra Lights Virginia Slims.

But I get your point.

FTFY

//

325 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 10:04:04am

re: #321 thedopefishlives

Nuke the site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.

Counterproductive if the Andromeda Strain is in there though.

326 Obdicut  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 10:05:16am

re: #325 oaktree

Basically, there are problems in this world that can be solved with nukes, and those that nukes make worse.

327 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 10:07:30am

re: #326 Obdicut

Basically, there are problems in this world that can be solved with nukes, and those that nukes make worse.

Such as mega-nuclear doomsday devices that will not be publicly announced until the Party Congress next week.
(Have to see how many movie/literary "do not nuke this" references I can keep coming up with.)

328 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 10:10:21am

re: #326 Obdicut

Basically, there are problems in this world that can be solved with nukes, and those that nukes make worse.

And as a side trivia challenge:
Movies/books where antagonist plans on nuking protagonist and ends up on the receiving end due to overconfidence or rank incompetence?
(Note: might contain spoilers!)

For example:
Stargate
Soldier

329 makeitstop  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 10:11:00am

Afternoon, Lizards...

Shorter Buchanan: I would have gotten away with it, too, if it weren't for those meddling Blacks and Gays!

I'm truly surprised he didn't also blame 'the Jews.'
//

330 Kragar  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 10:11:54am

re: #326 Obdicut

Basically, there are problems in this world that can be solved with nukes, and those that nukes make worse.

Image: 9137215.jpg

331 AK-47%  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 10:12:55am

re: #329 makeitstop

Afternoon, Lizards...

Shorter Buchanan: I would have gotten away with it, too, if it weren't for those meddling Blacks and Gays!

I'm truly surprised he didn't also blame 'the Jews.'
//

He did, in dogwhistle.

332 Lidane  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 10:16:27am

Way to reach out to Latino voters, Mitt--

Romney Touts Support Of Creator Of Arizona Anti-Immigrant Law

333 Kragar  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 10:16:46am

Is there some rule I don't know about where wingnut sites are required by law to have popups for shitty books bombard you every time you click on a link?

334 Gus  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 10:17:57am

OK. Shoveled some snow. Weee.

[Pant, pant, pant.]

335 Lidane  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 10:18:17am

re: #333 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Is there some rule I don't know about where wingnut sites are required by law to have popups for shitty books bombard you every time you click on a link?

They buy all those shitty books in bulk to get the authors on the NYT Bestsellers list. They've got to do something to dupe others into buying them.

336 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 10:18:59am

re: #334 Gus 802

OK. Shoveled some snow. Weee.

[Pant, pant, pant.]

We can issue you two hand-held toy spinners and send you to the zipline to sell car insurance now.
/

337 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 10:20:13am

re: #335 Lidane

They buy all those shitty books in bulk to get the authors on the NYT Bestsellers list. They've got to do something to dupe others into buying them.

I thought they used them to line the bunkers to act as insulation and additional radiation shielding.

338 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 10:20:39am

re: #334 Gus 802

OK. Shoveled some snow. Weee.

[Pant, pant, pant.]

Need a snowblower? It's pretty obvious mine's not going to see any action this season.

339 Gus  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 10:20:58am

re: #336 oaktree

We can issue you two hand-held toy spinners and send you to the zipline to sell car insurance now.
/

[x] Snowing
[x] No collision insurance.
[x] Stay home.

340 Gus  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 10:21:38am

re: #338 thedopefishlives

Need a snowblower? It's pretty obvious mine's not going to see any action this season.

Some guy in the neighborhood goes down the sidewalk on our block on occasion. After it snows of course. ;)

341 Kragar  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 10:22:29am

Bryan Fischer think Gays should thank him for being an ignorant shit

Gays around the world have been all atwitter over my reporting on Peter Duesberg’s theory that HIV does not cause AIDS. Duesberg, who is a molecular biologist at UC Berkeley and one of the leading virologists in the world, argues, persuasively in my view, that HIV is a harmless passenger virus. (His credentials are impeccable: he isolated the first cancer gene in 1970, and was elected to the National Academy of Sciences in 1986.)

The breakdown in the immune system, which gives AIDS (Acquired Immunodeficiency Syndrome) its name, is caused, in Duesberg’s scientific opinion, by the cumulative damage done to the human body primarily through the use of alkyl nitrites, or “poppers,” in the homosexual subculture. Inhaling nitrites heightens the sexual experience and makes it possible to engage in multiple sexual episodes in a matter of hours.

But get this. If Duesberg is right, that HIV does not cause AIDS, then I am the best friend the gay community has.

His expert...

Duesberg's HIV/AIDS claims have been rejected as incorrect and disproven by the scientific community.
...
Duesberg's views on HIV/AIDS are cited as major influences on South African policy under the administration of Thabo Mbeki. Duesberg served on an advisory panel to Mbeki, convened in 2000. The failure of South Africa to provide antiretroviral drugs in a timely manner, due in part to the influence of AIDS denialism, is thought to be responsible for hundreds of thousands of preventable AIDS deaths and HIV infections.

342 Gus  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 10:23:13am

Maybe we all died and are stuck in some Onion-Hell.

//

343 lawhawk  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 10:23:50am

re: #338 thedopefishlives

Need a snowblower? It's pretty obvious mine's not going to see any action this season.

I bought a snowblower over Thanksgiving this year as insurance that I wouldn't need it this season.

344 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 10:24:05am

re: #340 Gus 802

Some guy in the neighborhood goes down the sidewalk on our block on occasion. After it snows of course. ;)

In our neighborhood, snowblowers are almost communal property. If you have one, you're honor-bound to find someone nearby that doesn't and assist them.

345 wrenchwench  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 10:24:46am

re: #332 Lidane

Way to reach out to Latino voters, Mitt--

Romney Touts Support Of Creator Of Arizona Anti-Immigrant Law

Kobach is evil.

This cannot be compensated for by an ad in Spanish.

Youtube Video
346 Gus  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 10:24:55am

re: #344 thedopefishlives

In our neighborhood, snowblowers are almost communal property. If you have one, you're honor-bound to find someone nearby that doesn't and assist them.

Sort of like the younger healthy guy always clearing the driveway/walk for the seniors next door.

347 Obdicut  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 10:26:04am

re: #341 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I've met Duesberg. He's a shithead. He was hanging outside Muddy Grounds coffee shop. I don't remember how AIDS came up, but I remember him going on about his theory. He was, however, very academic and well-spoken, not seeming at all ranty or loony.

He also does perfectly good research on cancer.

It is trivial to disprove him; there are plenty of people with AIDS who have never engaged in the behaviors he thinks cause AIDS.

348 Sheila Broflovski  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 10:26:28am

re: #346 Gus 802

Sort of like the younger healthy guy always clearing the driveway/walk for the seniors next door.

Wait, what? I had to pay the neighbor $20 last year every time it snowed.

349 Gus  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 10:26:59am

re: #348 Alouette

Wait, what? I had to pay the neighbor $20 last year every time it snowed.

Really? That sucks.

350 Gus  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 10:27:42am

Oh boy.

Watchdog Group Sues FAA For Records On Domestic Drone Use

Uh, no. Sorry. No dice. No can do.

351 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 10:27:52am

re: #346 Gus 802

Sort of like the younger healthy guy always clearing the driveway/walk for the seniors next door.

Right, something like that. I was actually extremely grateful for it last year; we had an overnight blizzard that left me snowed in in the morning. I had spent an hour with the shovel to no noticeable effect until my neighbor came over with his snowblower and cleared me out so I could get to work.

352 engineer cat  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 10:29:01am

i recollect thay the s carolina phase of the gop primaries that we are in now have usually been where the dirtiest dirt is flang

newt has ten days destroy willard if he can

353 kirkspencer  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 10:31:05am

re: #350 Gus 802

Oh boy.

Watchdog Group Sues FAA For Records On Domestic Drone Use

Uh, no. Sorry. No dice. No can do.

Why not?

354 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 10:31:11am

Russian ship stopped carrying arms bound for Syria

NICOSIA, Cyprus (AP) - A Russian ship that made an unscheduled stop in Cyprus while carrying tons of arms to Syria was technically violating an EU embargo on such shipments, say Cypriot officials.

The vessel, however, was allowed to continue its journey Wednesday after changing its destination.

...Customs officials boarded the ship to examine its cargo, but couldn't open and inspect four containers in the hold because of "the confined space" they were stored in, the Cypriot Foreign Ministry said in a statement. Nevertheless, the officials determined they were holding a "dangerous cargo."

State radio in Cyprus went further, saying the vessel was carrying "tens of tons of munitions."

The ship was also carrying an electricity generator, the ministry said.

Russian state news agency RIA Novosti quoted a Westberg spokesman as saying that the Chariot was ferrying cargo owned by Russia's state arms trader Rosoboronexport. The spokesman said the cargo was listed as "dangerous" in the ship's manifest, but no further details about it were available.

355 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 10:32:39am

re: #352 engineer dog

i recollect thay the s carolina phase of the gop primaries that we are in now have usually been where the dirtiest dirt is flang

newt has ten days destroy willard if he can

How did we get to where we have only one candidate with a nice, normal name?

We got Newt, Willard Mitt, the ungooglable, and Jon Huntsman.

Oh, yeah, and Ron Paul, who has two first names.

356 Gus  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 10:33:14am

re: #353 kirkspencer

Why not?

Because it would likely compromise law enforcement activities on the home front. If we are to release this information then it should be done on a case by case basis. However, willy nilly releasing all information like this would be detrimental to law enforcement for the protection of our citizens.

358 engineer cat  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 10:34:10am

re: #332 Lidane

Way to reach out to Latino voters, Mitt--

Romney Touts Support Of Creator Of Arizona Anti-Immigrant Law

the klownshow around mitt so far has obscured somewhat the fact that as a campaigner he is less than ept

359 Gus  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 10:34:45am

Going up!

360 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 10:35:50am

Iran’s Nuclear Program Gets Boost from Nicaragua’s President Ortega

Daniel Ortega began his second consecutive five-year term as president of Nicaragua with a speech substantially devoted to defending the Iranian nuclear program.

The current campaign of sanctions and pressure on Tehran threatens global peace, Ortega said Tuesday night from a dais occupied by seven heads of state and government, including Iran’s Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez, and by Spain’s Crown Prince Felipe.

He spoke of a “a true conspiracy” against Iran, “that in the final account goes against the whole region, against the peace of the world.”

361 kirkspencer  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 10:36:59am

re: #356 Gus 802

Because it would likely compromise law enforcement activities on the home front. If we are to release this information then it should be done on a case by case basis. However, willy nilly releasing all information like this would be detrimental to law enforcement for the protection of our citizens.

Ah. And no. The standard is open records by default, with the government needing to act to deny (case by case).

362 zora  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 10:52:08am

re: #352 engineer dog

i recollect thay the s carolina phase of the gop primaries that we are in now have usually been where the dirtiest dirt is flang

newt has ten days destroy willard if he can

[Link: www.kingofbain.com...]

and he's getting off to a good start.

363 Dire Straits  Wed, Jan 11, 2012 4:33:35pm

re: #149 lawhawk

Another way to look at it is that the Iranian official position has been to continue its war against Israel by any of its means at its disposal. That includes using proxies such as Hamas and Hizbullah and even Syria, as well as developing a nuclear capability. The nuclear capabilities serve multiple purposes, not only to potentially go after Israel, but to act as a threat and/or deterrent to other countries in the region as they vie for hegemony. That includes the likes of Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, and even Iraq (though in a much diminished position). It's why Iran rattles the sabres when it talks about shutting down the Strait of Hormuz (raising oil prices that fill its coffers), runs war games to show off weapons capabilities, etc.

So, if Israel is engaging in a covert war against Iran's nuclear program, it is against that backdrop.

Excellent points.


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