Mitt Romney keeps giving the Obama campaign perfect sound bites — and this isn’t an invented gaffe, folks. It’s a clear statement of Romney’s right wing ideology, and a harbinger of what you can expect if he’s elected.
1 |
Tumulus11 Sun, Jun 10, 2012 11:49:18am |
. We need fewer police officer impersonators.
| 3 |
Kronocide Sun, Jun 10, 2012 11:58:28am |
IF everyone is armed we wouldn't need cops. Parents can should homeschool.
That leaves churches to handle the firefighting.
I don't see a problems with this. It's how this country was founded, and things were so much better back then.
Wingnut Plato
| 4 |
Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste Sun, Jun 10, 2012 12:04:50pm |
The rich can afford private teachers, private security, and I'm sure when it comes to it the gated communities will set up their own privately owned fire department.
And when it comes down to it, when the peons have been properly bankrupted they won't need this support since they'll have nothing to protect and/or no advantage to getting educated as compared to getting ahead by getting straight to work awaiting their trickle down reward.
///
| 5 |
rwmofo Sun, Jun 10, 2012 12:07:57pm |
It's gotta be tough to be working on the President's re-election campaign. Gas prices, unemployment, the deficit and the cost of living are much higher now than when Obama took office. Plus that was a major ass-kicking we just witnessed in Wisconsin. And all they have to run on is:
At least we're not Republicans!!!
Time is running out and the media/Democrat Party is getting desperate.
| 6 |
Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste Sun, Jun 10, 2012 12:11:20pm |
| 7 |
Kronocide Sun, Jun 10, 2012 12:14:39pm |
re: #5 rwmofo
It's gotta be tough to be working on the President's re-election campaign.
What a stupid thing to say in light of Romney's statement.
You should be a right wing pundit. So easy 14 year olds can do it.
| 9 |
Mattand Sun, Jun 10, 2012 12:15:54pm |
At first, I was going to try to cut Romney some slack, under the theory that he got so caught up in bashing unions, he got unintentionally mentioned the others.
Now that I listen to it again, there's no mistake. Teachers, police, and firefighters are at best a necessary evil to him.
| 10 |
Mattand Sun, Jun 10, 2012 12:18:21pm |
re: #5 rwmofo
Seriously, dude, conservatives are in the mess we're facing now. Between the horrendous mismanagement that was the Bush presidency, and the current GOP crew using the country's economy to damage Obama, conservatives have nothing to be proud about.
| 11 |
Interesting Times Sun, Jun 10, 2012 12:19:55pm |
LOL:
RT @thinkprogress: Scott Walker breaks from Romney, says teachers and firefighters aren't "big government" thkpr.gs/Ldkqh4— Shoq Value (@Shoq) June 10, 2012
Scott Walker says Romney went a bit too far when he attacked government workers bit.ly/KY2zMI— Sam Stein (@samsteinhp) June 10, 2012
Yup, that "ass-kicking" in Wisconsin which caused the state senate to flip to Democrat control sure got Walker to step up his anti-union gloating :P
| 12 |
Gus Sun, Jun 10, 2012 12:20:50pm |
re: #8 jaunte
See, no more schooling necessary.
14 year old school level education? Wouldn't that be like an advanced degree for a wingnut?
| 13 |
funky chicken Sun, Jun 10, 2012 12:20:53pm |
This guy has a serious case of foot-in-mouth disease.
| 14 |
William Barnett-Lewis Sun, Jun 10, 2012 12:21:00pm |
re: #2 jaunte
An uneducated population is easier to control.
If they're actually educated, they'll stop believing what they're told to believe by Fox!
| 15 |
Almost Killed by Space Hookers Sun, Jun 10, 2012 12:23:53pm |
Well,
Without public, impartial police, fire-fighters and teachers, the next move is of course to privatize those things.
That way only the rich will be educated, protected or rescued when their mansion burns. That way the poor will become poorer and more desperate and the scraps sneeringly handed to them by their GOP masters will seem that much more generous.
America. The best justice, education and protection money can buy - and otherwise fuck you.
| 16 |
Gus Sun, Jun 10, 2012 12:25:40pm |
re: #15 LudwigVanQuixote
Well,
Without public, impartial police, fire-fighters and teachers, the next move is of course to privatize those things.
That way only the rich will be educated, protected or rescued when their mansion burns. That way the poor will become poorer and more desperate and the scraps sneeringly handed to them by their GOP masters will seem that much more generous.
America. The best justice, education and protection money can buy - and otherwise fuck you.
Which in many respects America is already like that.
| 17 |
funky chicken Sun, Jun 10, 2012 12:25:46pm |
The ad is devastating...I hope to see it on prime time TV soon.
| 18 |
Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste Sun, Jun 10, 2012 12:27:10pm |
re: #17 funky chicken
The ad is devastating...I hope to see it on prime time TV soon.
The Romneybot 6000 crushes little Timmy's dream of growing up to be a fireman. (evil gleam reflects from Romneybot's eyes)
| 19 |
jaunte Sun, Jun 10, 2012 12:27:50pm |
re: #15 LudwigVanQuixote
That way only the rich will be educated, protected or rescued when their mansion burns. That way the poor will become poorer and more desperate and the scraps sneeringly handed to them by their GOP masters will seem that much more generous.
I don't know why almost a third of the population seems so eager for us to turn into some kind of banana republic.
| 20 |
Almost Killed by Space Hookers Sun, Jun 10, 2012 12:29:54pm |
Romney, the naked lies, the rapacious evil and brazen thrust to turn America into a third world nation disgust me. The only thing that disgusts me more are the millions of Americans who vote completely against their own interests or the interests of the nation as a whole.
How can they not notice that the party that spends the most are the GOP?
This has been true since Nixon. How can they not notice?
How can they not notice that the GOP are the elitists? They are elitist to the extent that no, seriously, if you can't afford medical care - you must suffer. They are elitist to the extent that education is only for them - only to keep the masses befuddled and subjected. They are the ones who passionately argue that there is no duty to help anyone.
How can they not notice that crazy GOP deregulation has led to multiple crashes?
How can they not notice that the GOP only serves the wealthy oligarchy at the top of the GOP?
How can they not notice that the GOP would have you living in a toxic sewer? Since when does the GOP care about things like water and air quality?
Again and again, the GOP presents the most self-centred, fearful greedy and ugly aspects of America.
How?
| 21 |
Gus Sun, Jun 10, 2012 12:30:07pm |
re: #19 jaunte
I don't know why almost a third of the population seems so eager for us to turn into some kind of banana republic.
I think the Teabaggers have been sold that this is just part of a process that will eventually culminate as though they won the lottery.
| 22 |
Randall Gross Sun, Jun 10, 2012 12:30:14pm |
This is the starkest contrast between the candidates. In the past the GOP attacked real gov't bloat, nowadays they are into cutting muscle because they've backed themselves into another no new taxes corner.
| 23 |
Interesting Times Sun, Jun 10, 2012 12:31:54pm |
re: #15 LudwigVanQuixote
Oh hai. Remember when you talked about tipping points? Here we go :(
Must-Read: Scientists Uncover Evidence Of Impending Tipping Point For Earth
A prestigious group of scientists from around the world is warning that population growth, widespread destruction of natural ecosystems, and climate change may be driving Earth toward an irreversible change in the biosphere, a planet-wide tipping point that would have destructive consequences absent adequate preparation and mitigation.
“It really will be a new world, biologically, at that point,” warns Anthony Barnosky, professor of integrative biology at the University of California, Berkeley, and lead author of a review paper appearing in the June 7 issue of the journal Nature. “The data suggests that there will be a reduction in biodiversity and severe impacts on much of what we depend on to sustain our quality of life, including, for example, fisheries, agriculture, forest products and clean water. This could happen within just a few generations.”
| 24 |
Kragar Sun, Jun 10, 2012 12:32:23pm |
A better America, with no teachers, firefighters or police officers getting in the way of businesses or religions.
| 25 |
Charles Johnson Sun, Jun 10, 2012 12:32:37pm |
By the way, in case anyone missed this yesterday, there's a new feature in comments - a small thing, but handy for Twitterers. If you put a Twitter hashtag in your comment (a '#' symbol followed by something other than numbers), it will be automatically converted to a link to Twitter's search page for that hashtag.
For example, let's see what the wingnuts are hallucinating about today in the #TwitterGulag thread.
For those who don't know what I'm talking about, "hashtags" are Twitter's way of categorizing tweets. People include hashtags in their tweets, so that searching for that tag shows all the tweets on that topic.
The practice actually was started by Twitter users - it wasn't an intentional part of the Twitter system.
| 26 |
Gus Sun, Jun 10, 2012 12:33:13pm |
So if you vote for Romney in a couple of years you'll be able to buy that red Dodge Ram you've been looking at over at the dealership next to Walmart and a jet ski plus pay $2.50/gallon for gasoline. Couple of other perks too like being able to halt Sharia law and thumb your nose at homosexuals and stop abortion.
//
| 27 |
Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste Sun, Jun 10, 2012 12:33:29pm |
re: #21 Gus
I think the Teabaggers have been sold that this is just part of a process that will eventually culminate as though they won the lottery.
They've been sold a guarantee that their position not quite at the bottom of the social heap will be maintained. There's something about that promise that works since it's been a fixture in the past in US politics. Divide the lower classes and pit them against each other while the leaders continue to reap benefits and advantage as a de facto noble class.
| 28 |
funky chicken Sun, Jun 10, 2012 12:33:58pm |
And what's up with the morons behind Romney applauding that line? LOL. I watched it again, and it's just ... really, really bad.
| 29 |
Kragar Sun, Jun 10, 2012 12:34:32pm |
re: #28 funky chicken
And what's up with the morons behind Romney applauding that line? LOL. I watched it again, and it's just ... really, really bad.
"I CAN COUNT TO POTATO!"
| 30 |
Almost Killed by Space Hookers Sun, Jun 10, 2012 12:34:40pm |
re: #19 jaunte
I don't know why almost a third of the population seems so eager for us to turn into some kind of banana republic.
Exactly my next comment.
I don't get it.
I just don't.
Perhaps they hate gay people, successful brown people and women having (and enjoying) protected sex that much more than protecting their own rights, livelihoods and children. I suppose it's much like the jihadi who would die for a chance to kill. It is a horrible sickness at the core of America.
The only inoculation against such religious fanaticism is education. In the case of the GOP, the infection understands it must prevent the cure.
They are winning too.
| 31 |
Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste Sun, Jun 10, 2012 12:34:51pm |
re: #26 Gus
So if you vote for Romney in a couple of years you'll be able to buy that *flying* red Dodge Ram you've been looking at over at the dealership next to Walmart and a jet ski plus pay $2.50/gallon for gasoline. Couple of other perks too like being able to halt Sharia law and thumb your nose at homosexuals and stop abortion.
//
FTFY
| 32 |
Gus Sun, Jun 10, 2012 12:37:07pm |
re: #30 LudwigVanQuixote
Exactly my next comment.
I don't get it.
I just don't.
Perhaps they hate gay people, successful brown people and women having (and enjoying) protected sex that much more than protecting their own rights, livelihoods and children. I suppose it's much like the jihadi who would die for a chance to kill. It is a horrible sickness at the core of America.
The only inoculation against such religious fanaticism is education. In the case of the GOP, the infection understands it must prevent the cure.
They are winning too.
Uncle Cletus will be able to get that high paying job that's been taken away from him by blacks and women all to fill up quotas established by the Democrat Party.
//
| 33 |
Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste Sun, Jun 10, 2012 12:37:31pm |
BBIAB. Feline Overlord has sensed *chicken* among the grocery purchases and demands immediate gratification of his cooked poultry addiction.
| 34 |
Gus Sun, Jun 10, 2012 12:38:55pm |
Plus once we get rid of the EPA we'll be able to bring back that steel mill that mah pappy used to work at.
//
| 35 |
b_sharp Sun, Jun 10, 2012 12:40:35pm |
re: #5 rwmofo
It's gotta be tough to be working on the President's re-election campaign.
Gas prices,
These prices are controlled by the market which is in turn controlled by emotion. Who is it who spends all their time playing with emotions? It isn't the Democrats.
unemployment,
The private sector job creation, while positive, has not kept up with public job destruction, which is mostly due to Republican State policies.
the deficit and the
The deficit is less now than immediately after the collapse. You do remember when the collapse happen, right?
cost of living are much higher
Only because the CPI dropped dramatically in 2008. Compare the current CPI to that just before the collapse and you'll see the CPI during Obama's time is lower.
Stop cherry picking.
now than when Obama took office. Plus that was a major ass-kicking we just witnessed in Wisconsin. And all they have to run on is:
Time is running out and the media/Democrat Party is getting desperate.
| 36 |
Gus Sun, Jun 10, 2012 12:41:18pm |
Romney will also bring back school prayer which should lead to an immediate reduction of the homicide rate.
//
| 37 |
Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste Sun, Jun 10, 2012 12:42:28pm |
re: #36 Gus
Romney will also bring back school prayer which should lead to an immediate reduction of the homicide rate.
//
I expect an Executive Order about haircuts to be issued early on as well.
//
| 38 |
b_sharp Sun, Jun 10, 2012 12:42:37pm |
re: #20 LudwigVanQuixote
Romney, the naked lies, the rapacious evil and brazen thrust to turn America into a third world nation disgust me. The only thing that disgusts me more are the millions of Americans who vote completely against their own interests or the interests of the nation as a whole.
How can they not notice that the party that spends the most are the GOP?
This has been true since Nixon. How can they not notice?
How can they not notice that the GOP are the elitists? They are elitist to the extent that no, seriously, if you can't afford medical care - you must suffer. They are elitist to the extent that education is only for them - only to keep the masses befuddled and subjected. They are the ones who passionately argue that there is no duty to help anyone.
How can they not notice that crazy GOP deregulation has led to multiple crashes?
How can they not notice that the GOP only serves the wealthy oligarchy at the top of the GOP?
How can they not notice that the GOP would have you living in a toxic sewer? Since when does the GOP care about things like water and air quality?
Again and again, the GOP presents the most self-centred, fearful greedy and ugly aspects of America.
How?
An efficient propaganda machine.
| 39 |
Gus Sun, Jun 10, 2012 12:42:52pm |
In case of fire pull lever pray.
2012 Republican Party Fire Department
| 40 |
Gus Sun, Jun 10, 2012 12:43:33pm |
re: #37 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste
I expect an Executive Order about haircuts to be issued early on as well.
//
Grooming codes just like UPS.
//
| 41 |
Kragar Sun, Jun 10, 2012 12:43:37pm |
re: #39 Gus
In case of fire
pull leverpray.2012 Republican Party Fire Department
If you loved Jesus, your house wouldn't have burned down. Sinner.
| 42 |
Gus Sun, Jun 10, 2012 12:45:45pm |
re: #41 Kragar
If you loved Jesus, your house wouldn't have burned down. Sinner.
This message was brought to you by the Christian Scientist Fire Department Association.
//
| 43 |
Gus Sun, Jun 10, 2012 12:46:10pm |
re: #41 Kragar
If you loved Jesus, your house wouldn't have burned down. Sinner.
Either that or "God wanted your house to burn down for a reason." //
| 44 |
b_sharp Sun, Jun 10, 2012 12:46:57pm |
re: #41 Kragar
If you loved Jesus, your house wouldn't have burned down. Sinner.
Are we really returning to the time when all natural events/accidents are explained by 'god did it'?
| 45 |
funky chicken Sun, Jun 10, 2012 12:48:16pm |
The "message of Wisconsin" is that the best way to help the American people is to lay off teachers, cops, and firefighters?
This ad needs to be on prime time TV. I want to hear Romney's explanation/rationalization/defense of his statement.
| 46 |
Gus Sun, Jun 10, 2012 12:48:57pm |
re: #44 b_sharp
Are we really returning to the time when all natural events/accidents are explained by 'god did it'?
Why do you think San Francisco and Los Angeles has earthquakes? //
| 47 |
Kragar Sun, Jun 10, 2012 12:49:37pm |
re: #44 b_sharp
Are we really returning to the time when all natural events/accidents are explained by 'god did it'?
These are people who are willing to call rape a gift from God.
| 48 |
Kragar Sun, Jun 10, 2012 12:50:04pm |
re: #46 Gus
Why do you think San Francisco and Los Angeles has earthquakes? //
It was that or the Bible Belt and we got first pick.
| 49 |
jaunte Sun, Jun 10, 2012 12:50:10pm |
re: #44 b_sharp
Southern Baptist Convention Prayer Guide for a Nation in Crisis:
[Link: www.sbcpray.net...]
Yesterday, driving in central Texas, I saw dozens of these:
Image: File:Pray_for_Our_Nation_sign_IMG_3291.JPG
| 50 |
b_sharp Sun, Jun 10, 2012 12:51:29pm |
re: #45 funky chicken
The "message of Wisconsin" is that the best way to help the American people is to lay off teachers, cops, and firefighters?
This ad needs to be on prime time TV. I want to hear Romney's explanation/rationalization/defense of his statement.
I thought Gov Walker brown-nosed the police and firefighters by leaving their unions alone.
| 51 |
Achilles Tang Sun, Jun 10, 2012 12:51:47pm |
re: #26 Gus
So if you vote for Romney in a couple of years you'll be able to buy that red Dodge Ram you've been looking at over at the dealership next to Walmart and a jet ski plus pay $2.50/gallon for gasoline. Couple of other perks too like being able to halt Sharia law and thumb your nose at homosexuals and stop abortion.
//
And you won't have to pay for health insurance since there is always that free enterprise tradition of emergency room care first and damn the bills second.
| 52 |
b_sharp Sun, Jun 10, 2012 12:52:24pm |
re: #46 Gus
Why do you think San Francisco and Los Angeles has earthquakes? //
It has nothing to do with them technonic plaits, right?
| 53 |
Gus Sun, Jun 10, 2012 12:53:15pm |
re: #49 jaunte
Southern Baptist Convention Prayer Guide for a Nation in Crisis:
[Link: www.sbcpray.net...]Yesterday, driving in central Texas, I saw dozens of these:
Image: File:Pray_for_Our_Nation_sign_IMG_3291.JPG
// Late joke.
| 54 |
Kragar Sun, Jun 10, 2012 12:54:36pm |
re: #52 b_sharp
It has nothing to do with them technonic plaits, right?
Aint no plate tectonics in the Bible!
| 55 |
b_sharp Sun, Jun 10, 2012 12:55:29pm |
re: #49 jaunte
Southern Baptist Convention Prayer Guide for a Nation in Crisis:
[Link: www.sbcpray.net...]Yesterday, driving in central Texas, I saw dozens of these:
Image: File:Pray_for_Our_Nation_sign_IMG_3291.JPG
The old 'Prey on Your Nation' routine.
Pure Chaos.
| 56 |
jaunte Sun, Jun 10, 2012 12:56:03pm |
Other than actually doing something, it's our only hope!
“Prayer…America’s Only Hope” Yard Signs are now available for $5 in the East Foyer. Let our community know that you are praying for our nation. Prayer truly is our only hope! Bumper stickers are also available in the East Foyer of FBC during weekday business hours or on Sundays in the East Foyer following the a.m. Worship Service.
[Link: www.fbctexarkana.org...]
| 57 |
MittDoesNotCompute Sun, Jun 10, 2012 12:56:27pm |
re: #5 rwmofo
Seriously, what the fuck are you smoking, that is, if you really believe that pile of horseshit you just dropped?
If you didn't act like such a partisan hack that's apparently in it for the lulz, you'd know that what you just said was patently false; b_sharp's breakdown in #35 of your talking points was spot-on with reality.
Newsflash: Not everything is just President Obama's fault, just as it wasn't always President Bush's (either of them) or President Clinton's or what have not; the wheels for a lot of this shit started grinding long ago and institutional/societal inertia's very hard to overcome.
| 59 |
Gus Sun, Jun 10, 2012 12:56:48pm |
re: #52 b_sharp
It has nothing to do with them technonic plaits, right?
I'm still amazed that many are also against that science.
| 60 |
Gus Sun, Jun 10, 2012 12:57:23pm |
re: #58 b_sharp
Plates are where you put yer food.
Or on your skull after your ATV rolls over on a huntin' trip.
//
| 61 |
Mich-again Sun, Jun 10, 2012 12:58:14pm |
There are two ways to reduce personnel costs. One is to impose pay cuts and benefit reductions, the other is to reduce headcount.
The GOP is apparently pursuing both routes simultaneously. Good luck with that.
| 62 |
William Barnett-Lewis Sun, Jun 10, 2012 12:59:29pm |
re: #50 b_sharp
I thought Gov Walker brown-nosed the police and firefighters by leaving their unions alone.
That was a big chunk of the divide and conquer strategy though it did fail as the police & firemen stayed in Solidarity.
| 63 |
MittDoesNotCompute Sun, Jun 10, 2012 1:00:34pm |
re: #50 b_sharp
I thought Gov Walker brown-nosed the police and firefighters by leaving their unions alone.
Those WI cops, firefighters, and EMTs who voted for Walker in the recall must hope that they'll be eaten last, as the old saying goes.
| 64 |
Mich-again Sun, Jun 10, 2012 1:01:16pm |
re: #5 rwmofo
So funny, the GOP line about how gas prices were cheaper when GWB was in office. Gas prices were cheaper then because we were deep n the throes of a recession. When people don;t have to drive to work and businesses don;t have to ship goods, then demand for fuel goes down and voila! prices go down as well. The price of gasoline is a bellwether for economic activity.
How ignorant. Kids, back in the good ol days of the Bush Depression, gasoline was cheaper!
| 65 |
Almost Killed by Space Hookers Sun, Jun 10, 2012 1:01:31pm |
re: #23 Interesting Times
Oh hai. Remember when you talked about tipping points? Here we go :(
Must-Read: Scientists Uncover Evidence Of Impending Tipping Point For Earth
Yeah. We are rapidly approaching points of no return.
Here are two very related articles from Nature:
Has the Earth’s sixth mass extinction already arrived?
Here is a PDF:
[Link: www.geology.iupui.edu...]
"Our results confirm that current extinction rates are higher than would be expected from the fossil record, highlighting the need for effective conservation measures."
And
Approaching a state shift in Earth’s biosphere
I can't find a non-subscription PDF online for you. But this is terrifying reading.
"Localized ecological systems are known to shift abruptly and irreversibly from one state to another when they are forced across critical thresholds. Here we review evidence that the global ecosystem as a whole can react in the same way and is approaching a planetary-scale critical transition as a result of human influence. The plausibility of a planetary-scale ‘tipping point’ highlights the need to improve biological forecasting by detecting early warning signs of critical transitions on global as well as local scales, and by detecting feedbacks that promote such transitions. It is also necessary to address root causes of how humans are forcing biological changes."
Looking at the Romney/Obama thing is like we are all children in the back of a car, racing towards a cliff, while the adults argue over where they sit.
Right now, you, me and almost every species you like is being murdered by morons.
| 66 |
jaunte Sun, Jun 10, 2012 1:02:34pm |
Houston gas prices: falling. $3.10 at Pearland Kroger. $3.99 at Shell downtown. [Link: www.houstongasprices.com...]
| 67 |
b_sharp Sun, Jun 10, 2012 1:03:38pm |
re: #62 William Barnett-Lewis
That was a big chunk of the divide and conquer strategy though it did fail as the police & firemen stayed in Solidarity.
Yah. The comment was really in response to Romney's use of the Wisconsin results to push his anti-union talking points.
| 69 |
jaunte Sun, Jun 10, 2012 1:05:36pm |
FLASHBACK: Fox News On Gas Prices In 2008
Following GOP strategy, Fox News is again blaming the Obama administration for rising gasoline prices -- a claim that has been repeatedly debunked by energy analysts. But back in the summer of 2008, when the average U.S. gasoline price hit a record high of $4.11, Fox said that "no President has the power to increase or to lower gas prices."
| 70 |
Gus Sun, Jun 10, 2012 1:05:51pm |
re: #66 jaunte
Houston gas prices: falling. $3.10 at Pearland Kroger. $3.99 at Shell downtown. [Link: www.houstongasprices.com...]
| 71 |
Gus Sun, Jun 10, 2012 1:06:31pm |
re: #5 rwmofo
It's gotta be tough to be working on the President's re-election campaign. Gas prices, unemployment, the deficit and the cost of living are much higher now than when Obama took office. Plus that was a major ass-kicking we just witnessed in Wisconsin. And all they have to run on is:
Time is running out and the media/Democrat Party is getting desperate.
Hey. Maybe you should move to Mississippi. I heard it's cheaper there.
| 72 |
Romantic Heretic Sun, Jun 10, 2012 1:07:41pm |
re: #15 LudwigVanQuixote
Well,
Without public, impartial police, fire-fighters and teachers, the next move is of course to privatize those things.
That way only the rich will be educated, protected or rescued when their mansion burns. That way the poor will become poorer and more desperate and the scraps sneeringly handed to them by their GOP masters will seem that much more generous.
America. The best justice, education and protection money can buy - and otherwise fuck you.
There's that damned sound again.
| 73 |
Interesting Times Sun, Jun 10, 2012 1:08:42pm |
re: #65 LudwigVanQuixote
Right now, you, me and almost every species you like is being murdered by morons.
Plus evil, selfish old people who assume they'll be dead before the worst hits so screw everyone else while they can.
| 74 |
b_sharp Sun, Jun 10, 2012 1:10:45pm |
re: #65 LudwigVanQuixote
Yeah. We are rapidly approaching points of no return.
Here are two very related articles from Nature:
Has the Earth’s sixth mass extinction already arrived?
Here is a PDF:
[Link: www.geology.iupui.edu...]
"Our results confirm that current extinction rates are higher than would be expected from the fossil record, highlighting the need for effective conservation measures."
And
Approaching a state shift in Earth’s biosphere
I can't find a non-subscription PDF online for you. But this is terrifying reading.
"Localized ecological systems are known to shift abruptly and irreversibly from one state to another when they are forced across critical thresholds. Here we review evidence that the global ecosystem as a whole can react in the same way and is approaching a planetary-scale critical transition as a result of human influence. The plausibility of a planetary-scale ‘tipping point’ highlights the need to improve biological forecasting by detecting early warning signs of critical transitions on global as well as local scales, and by detecting feedbacks that promote such transitions. It is also necessary to address root causes of how humans are forcing biological changes."
Looking at the Romney/Obama thing is like we are all children in the back of a car, racing towards a cliff, while the adults argue over where they sit.
Right now, you, me and almost every species you like is being murdered by morons.
The only thing that can be said about this is; when humans have died out, the Earth's ecosystem will eventually recover, albeit with changed flora and fauna.
That fact won't help extant endangered flora and fauna however.
| 75 |
Mich-again Sun, Jun 10, 2012 1:12:31pm |
re: #73 Interesting Times
Plus evil, selfish old people who assume they'll be dead before the worst hits so screw everyone else while they can.
Amen to that. The same old fucks who used to tell their kids to make sure to leave the campground cleaner than they found it.
| 76 |
Interesting Times Sun, Jun 10, 2012 1:13:56pm |
re: #74 b_sharp
The only thing that can be said about this is; when humans have died out, the Earth's ecosystem will eventually recover, albeit with changed flora and fauna.
Assuming they don't set in motion the Venus-style runaway effect.
| 77 |
Gus Sun, Jun 10, 2012 1:14:41pm |
re: #74 b_sharp
The only thing that can be said about this is; when humans have died out, the Earth's ecosystem will eventually recover, albeit with changed flora and fauna.
That fact won't help extant endangered flora and fauna however.
I'm sure you know how humans fit in to the greater scheme of things. Especially when considered against the vast universe.
That pale blue dot.
| 78 |
Gus Sun, Jun 10, 2012 1:16:48pm |
But for us, it's different. Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there – on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.The earth is a very small stage in a vast cosmic arena. Think of the rivers of blood spilled by all those generals and emperors so that in glory and in triumph they could become the momentary masters of a fraction of a dot. Think of the endless cruelties visited by the inhabitants of one corner of the dot on scarcely distinguishable inhabitants of some other corner of the dot. How frequent their misunderstandings, how eager they are to kill one another, how fervent their hatreds. Our posturings, our imagined self-importance, the delusion that we have some privileged position in the universe, are challenged by this point of pale light.
Our planet is a lonely speck in the great enveloping cosmic dark. In our obscurity – in all this vastness – there is no hint that help will come from elsewhere to save us from ourselves. It is up to us. It's been said that astronomy is a humbling, and I might add, a character-building experience. To my mind, there is perhaps no better demonstration of the folly of human conceits than this distant image of our tiny world. To me, it underscores our responsibility to deal more kindly and compassionately with one another and to preserve and cherish that pale blue dot, the only home we've ever known.
-- Carl Sagan
| 79 |
Interesting Times Sun, Jun 10, 2012 1:17:22pm |
re: #65 LudwigVanQuixote
Hey, have you seen this paper?
The ultimate climate emergency is a "runaway greenhouse": a hot and water vapour rich atmosphere limits the emission of thermal radiation to space, causing runaway warming. Warming ceases only once the surface reaches ~1400K and emits radiation in the near-infrared, where water is not a good greenhouse gas. This would evaporate the entire ocean and exterminate all planetary life. Venus experienced a runaway greenhouse in the past, and we expect that Earth will in around 2 billion years as solar luminosity increases. But could we bring on such a catastrophe prematurely, by our current climate-altering activities?
Do you think their conclusions are more or less correct?
| 80 |
MittDoesNotCompute Sun, Jun 10, 2012 1:17:30pm |
re: #64 Mich-again
So funny, the GOP line about how gas prices were cheaper when GWB was in office. Gas prices were cheaper then because we were deep n the throes of a recession. When people don;t have to drive to work and businesses don;t have to ship goods, then demand for fuel goes down and voila! prices go down as well. The price of gasoline is a bellwether for economic activity.
How ignorant. Kids, back in the good ol days of the Bush Depression, gasoline was cheaper!
RWNJs often fail at history; hell I remember paying a bit north of $4/gallon for regular here in Nashville in the immediate aftermath of Katrina and Rita.
Shit happens sometimes and we're just along for the ride.
| 81 |
Daniel Ballard Sun, Jun 10, 2012 1:18:40pm |
| 83 |
b_sharp Sun, Jun 10, 2012 1:19:42pm |
re: #76 Interesting Times
Assuming they don't set in motion the Venus-style runaway effect.
I don't know that that's possible. I think the interactions expressed in Lovelock's Gaia hypothesis will prevent that.
| 84 |
Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste Sun, Jun 10, 2012 1:20:03pm |
re: #54 Kragar
Aint no plate tectonics in the Bible!
Besides, that theory can't create the Atlantic Ocean in 6000 years.
| 85 |
Gus Sun, Jun 10, 2012 1:21:00pm |
re: #81 Daniel Ballard
re: #77 Gus
Someone should tell our story, engraved deeply in titanium sheet. That might last.
Maybe in the millions of years to come some intelligent life form will find our space junk. Perhaps Voyager. Or distant radio waves, transmissions, communications, etc., still traveling across the vastness of space.
| 86 |
Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste Sun, Jun 10, 2012 1:21:14pm |
re: #60 Gus
Or on your skull after your ATV rolls over on a huntin' trip.
//
Assuming the ice weasels don't get ya. Critters gotta eat to and there is only so much haggis to go 'round.
| 87 |
b_sharp Sun, Jun 10, 2012 1:21:22pm |
re: #77 Gus
I'm sure you know how humans fit in to the greater scheme of things. Especially when considered against the vast universe.
That pale blue dot.
Just a small cog in the machine.
| 88 |
Almost Killed by Space Hookers Sun, Jun 10, 2012 1:21:23pm |
re: #73 Interesting Times
Plus evil, selfish old people who assume they'll be dead before the worst hits so screw everyone else while they can.
This is so related to b-sharp's comment that I'll comment back to both of you at the same time.
re: #74 b_sharp
The only thing that can be said about this is; when humans have died out, the Earth's ecosystem will eventually recover, albeit with changed flora and fauna.
That fact won't help extant endangered flora and fauna however.
We are part of that endangered fauna. Everything that humanity as a species is, is part of that endangered group. All the striving and building and suffering that brought us out of the caves and gave us Beethoven and Einstein is being killed by an oligarchy of soulless, plastic men and the moronic masses that blindly follow them.
Doesn't it bother you?
It's not that we are going to go out because aliens invaded and we fought a noble last stand. It's not going to be a meteor or an apocalyptic fight of good vs. evil. And make no doubt, if we don't seriously try to turn this around, we are going out.
The end will be the choking off of our food, water and air as people turn to fighting over what is left. We are capable of such greatness - yet it will all be squandered. It's a miserable, pathetic whimpering end, brought to us by plastic-smiled, lying douches.
| 89 |
Almost Killed by Space Hookers Sun, Jun 10, 2012 1:24:54pm |
re: #79 Interesting Times
Hey, have you seen this paper?
Do you think their conclusions are more or less correct?
I haven't seen that one yet, but I assure you that runaway greenhouse is something in the back of everyone's mind.
One of the reasons it is in the back of everyone's mind is not that this isn't important or terrifying. It is that there are a lot of other ways we are pushing this towards extinction without even going that far. In military terms runaway greenhouse is making the rubble bounce.
| 90 |
Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste Sun, Jun 10, 2012 1:25:29pm |
re: #88 LudwigVanQuixote
But Galt's Gulch will be the last to fall - and they will consider that "winning".
:p
| 91 |
b_sharp Sun, Jun 10, 2012 1:27:50pm |
re: #84 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste
Besides, that theory can't create the Atlantic Ocean in 6000 years.
You'd be surprised.
Check Walt Brown's Hydroplate Theory.
| 92 |
Almost Killed by Space Hookers Sun, Jun 10, 2012 1:28:27pm |
re: #90 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste
But Galt's Gulch will be the last to fall - and they will consider that "winning".
:p
Ironically, GOP types like all overly aggressive parasites miss the point of balanced systems.
When it comes to the "real economy" being who has the guns and the food...
The Galtians will find that they are flabby old white guys who eat too much and who hired younger men with guns for security.
| 93 |
Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste Sun, Jun 10, 2012 1:29:19pm |
re: #91 b_sharp
You'd be surprised.
Check Walt Brown's Hydroplate Theory.
I've seen that. It's actually amusing as a read of what one can pull off if thermodynamics are ignored.
| 94 |
Tiny Alien Kitties are Watching You Sun, Jun 10, 2012 1:29:59pm |
I still am having a hard time coming to grips with the idea that a large percentage of those that currently support one of only two major political parties within this country are actually anarchists. The crowd advocating that we "tear it all down and burn it" in the blind and irrational hope that whatever comes afterword will be better seems to be growing daily.
| 95 |
Lidane Sun, Jun 10, 2012 1:30:45pm |
I have to take issue with this headline. I'm not convinced there are any reasonable Republicans running for office right now, given the sheer amount of stupid and fail they keep coming up with.
| 96 |
Almost Killed by Space Hookers Sun, Jun 10, 2012 1:31:38pm |
re: #83 b_sharp
I don't know that that's possible. I think the interactions expressed in Lovelock's Gaia hypothesis will prevent that.
Of course it is possible.
All systems break eventually. Even if the Gaia hypothesis were correct, I don't personally buy it, but even if I grant it to you, any living thing can be killed, and any system can be pushed out of equilibrium.
Entropy always wins in the end.
We, as a species are just working very hard to speed that end along.
| 97 |
b_sharp Sun, Jun 10, 2012 1:34:12pm |
re: #88 LudwigVanQuixote
This is so related to b-sharp's comment that I'll comment back to both of you at the same time.
re: #74 b_sharp
We are part of that endangered fauna. Everything that humanity as a species is, is part of that endangered group. All the striving and building and suffering that brought us out of the caves and gave us Beethoven and Einstein is being killed by an oligarchy of soulless, plastic men and the moronic masses that blindly follow them.
Doesn't it bother you?
It's not that we are going to go out because aliens invaded and we fought a noble last stand. It's not going to be a meteor or an apocalyptic fight of good vs. evil. And make no doubt, if we don't seriously try to turn this around, we are going out.
The end will be the choking off of our food, water and air as people turn to fighting over what is left. We are capable of such greatness - yet it will all be squandered. It's a miserable, pathetic whimpering end, brought to us by plastic-smiled, lying douches.
Of course it bothers me. I have two grandsons I worry about constantly.
| 98 |
Almost Killed by Space Hookers Sun, Jun 10, 2012 1:34:35pm |
Scientists are well known for being reserved in their language.
Doesn't it set off some alarms that eminent journals like Nature and PNAS are regularly publishing papers with words like catastrophe and mass extinction in relation to current trends?
Shouldn't that focus someone's attention?
| 99 |
Randall Gross Sun, Jun 10, 2012 1:36:05pm |
Wild West economics only works when population density is low, which is why we can't can't afford Austrian school / Galt's gulch / robber baron pure capitalism in the modern world. Like it or not we survive and prosper through a mixed economy wingnuts.
Neither pure socialism nor pure capitalism can work in an urbanized world.
We have to have police, educators, sanitation workers, road builders, inspectors, hospitals, & universities once you get past a certain population density. We have to have markets; and they will happen even if you outlaw them once you put more than three people in proximity.
The GOP needs to stuff their current direction where the sun doesn't shine and get to a spot that will allow growth.
| 100 |
Almost Killed by Space Hookers Sun, Jun 10, 2012 1:36:16pm |
| 101 |
Randall Gross Sun, Jun 10, 2012 1:37:29pm |
mmmmm Lamb roast already smelling too good.
| 102 |
Almost Killed by Space Hookers Sun, Jun 10, 2012 1:37:58pm |
re: #85 Gus
Maybe in the millions of years to come some intelligent life form will find our space junk. Perhaps Voyager. Or distant radio waves, transmissions, communications, etc., still traveling across the vastness of space.
Yes, and then they conclude that we were idiots who thankfully wiped ourselves out before spreading to the civilized galaxy.
| 103 |
Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste Sun, Jun 10, 2012 1:41:13pm |
re: #98 LudwigVanQuixote
Scientists are well known for being reserved in their language.
Doesn't it set off some alarms that eminent journals like Nature and PNAS are regularly publishing papers with words like catastrophe and mass extinction in relation to current trends?
Shouldn't that focus someone's attention?
In a world and culture where all the media does is scream their partisan viewpoint and use these same words in poor context those words in that context are not standing out. And talking calmly like one is conversing with adults appears to no longer be effective as a way to convey dire warnings or get action taken.
| 104 |
MittDoesNotCompute Sun, Jun 10, 2012 1:41:19pm |
| 105 |
Romantic Heretic Sun, Jun 10, 2012 1:41:29pm |
On thinking about what Romney said, and the people who have no problem with his ideas, I believe they do know that their policies will reduce the U.S. to a third world nation.
They just have no problem with it.
That's because a lot of them suffer from what I call 'Meanest Son-Of-A-Bitch-In-The-Valley Syndrome.' Image: YeaThoughIWalkSOB.jpg
Because of this syndrome these people actually believe they'll do well in such an America because they're too tough and nasty to suffer. Of course most of them are dreaming in Technicolor.
| 106 |
Gus Sun, Jun 10, 2012 1:42:59pm |
re: #102 LudwigVanQuixote
Yes, and then they conclude that we were idiots who thankfully wiped ourselves out before spreading to the civilized galaxy.
That is if there is even any other intelligent life forms out there. I happen to think that the odds are infinitesimally small. Yet it's sufficient enough to engage in such a thought exercise. So I envision our pathetic remnants floating in space while our planet sits lifeless or progressing, evolving, onto another dominant species. Maybe even from those ruins in a billion years another form of the human species will appear.
| 107 |
Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste Sun, Jun 10, 2012 1:44:10pm |
re: #104 Gitarzan
No one gets out of life alive...
Though if we have offspring we are part of the continuum of life. We came from life uninterrupted and life proceeds uninterrupted from us. Red of tooth and claw for us as we animals consume other life to sustain our own.
| 108 |
Kruk Sun, Jun 10, 2012 1:45:41pm |
re: #21 Gus
I think the Teabaggers have been sold that this is just part of a process that will eventually culminate as though they won the lottery.
Ferengi workers don't want to end the exploitation. They want to become the exploiters.
Seriously, that's the only thing that makes sense.
| 109 |
Kruk Sun, Jun 10, 2012 1:47:07pm |
re: #104 Gitarzan
No one gets out of life alive...
Or as one of my professors put it, life is a terminal sexually transmitted disease.
| 110 |
Interesting Times Sun, Jun 10, 2012 1:47:48pm |
re: #106 Gus
That is if there is even any other intelligent life forms out there. I happen to think that the odds are infinitesimally small.
I don't believe that - too many planets and stars and galaxies. Trouble is, they're so stupidly far apart that the odds of interplanetary species making contact is infinitesimally small (freetoken explained earlier that any radio signal coming from a far-enough distance degrades to the point where it's undetectable).
So, instead of saying "if there were intelligent life out there, we'd have come in contact with it by now", we should say "If faster-than-light travel could really happen, there would be evidence of it by now". No faster-than-light travel = no contact with other species, ever :(
| 111 |
reine.de.tout Sun, Jun 10, 2012 1:49:38pm |
It isn't just hiring fewer employees that's being touted as a solution; it's also reducing pay and benefits for current employees. Here's a story I saw yesterday. 3rd paragraph (bolding mine):
From coast to coast, the pensions of current public employees have long been generally considered untouchable. But now, some politicians are saying those obligations are trumped by the need to provide for the public’s health and safety.
So my question is this: If politicians do not want to fulfill their promised obligations to the PEOPLE who work in the jobs that provide for the public's health and safety (and education!), then who the hell is gonna do it? How are the politicians going to provide for the public's health and safety when nobody will want the jobs because it's well known that promised benefits will not be honored?
We had a similar battle in Louisiana in this year's legislative session. First of all, let me say that there is a big misconception, at least here, as to how benefits are paid. They are not paid from the general fund. They are paid from money invested from employee contributions (and the state's match) into the retirement system. Louisiana has an unfunded accrued liability because the legislature FAILED TO APPROPRIATE THE FUNDS needed for their match of retirement system contributions. Do you think your employer could just refuse to pay its required portion of your SS? I don't think so.
Now, I'm not convinced that the problem can be solved by an influx of federal dollars. It will not be a "temporary" fix, it will become permanently expected and it will become a larger and larger piece of the pie as states cut back on their own contributions and put the money somewhere else.
Here is what I see the problem as being, for state and county and city jurisdictions. If anyone is interested, this is a rant a posted last night - a friend called it my "Immaculate Perception", LOL.
I get so aggravated. Politicians enact into law requirements for SCORES of programs that are all oh-so-nice (and coincidentally, help with re-election efforts! surprise surprise).
When there is a monetary shortfall, do the politicians take a good hard look at what programs could be abolished so as to save money? Nope. What they do is start cutting public employee pay and benefits. So they end up with large, huge numbers of public employees, in jobs that don't pay anything. The best and brightest are going to find other jobs. Who does that leave in charge of our health & safety?
These shortfalls aren't caused by public employees being paid a living wage, comparable to (not HIGHER than) similar private sector jobs. The problem is politicians 1) enacting programs that will get them re-elected, cost be damned, and 2) politicians wanting to use the money for CONTRACTS instead of employees - contracts which often end up in the hands of, gee, donors.
I'm just livid. The politicians create the problems with their continuous demands that agencies provide this or that service; then when it ends up costing money, duh! - it's the employees hired to provide the services that pay the bill.
I'm all for public jurisdictions "saving" money if money needs to be saved. But let's cut out the contracts first; then let's look at all the programs that are required and see which ones are TRULY needed and cut the ones that aren't needed. Yes, there will be a layoff of employees. They will find other jobs. But don't keep the same number of employees and pay them NOTHING, and reduce their benefits as well as the promised benefits of those already retired.
| 112 |
b_sharp Sun, Jun 10, 2012 1:50:03pm |
re: #96 LudwigVanQuixote
Of course it is possible.
All systems break eventually. Even if the Gaia hypothesis were correct, I don't personally buy it, but even if I grant it to you, any living thing can be killed, and any system can be pushed out of equilibrium.
Entropy always wins in the end.
We, as a species are just working very hard to speed that end along.
Lovelock's hypothesis is about how living systems adapt through feedback and will create a new equilibrium or return if pushed out of an initial equilibrium. The Earth's ecosystem has recovered from several severe conditions, is closer to the centre (cooler) of the Goldilocks zone than Venus, has large oceans and an atmosphere much different than that of Venus.
Although I don't question the possibility of runaway warming, I have trouble believing it has anything but a near zero probability.
The idea of a major extinction initiated by humans is a different matter, as is the idea of severe and extended warming with disastrous effects. It not only can happen, it is happening.
| 113 |
Almost Killed by Space Hookers Sun, Jun 10, 2012 1:50:05pm |
re: #103 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste
In a world and culture where all the media does is scream their partisan viewpoint and use these same words in poor context those words in that context are not standing out. And talking calmly like one is conversing with adults appears to no longer be effective as a way to convey dire warnings or get action taken.
Yes, the media has made it so that scientists can't even use data, math facts and truth to win an argument. Science has been reduced to the status of just another opinion in the minds of the masses.
So no, we really can't win until it starts getting so bad that even the average idiot can't help but notice things are getting progressively more fucked up.
Of course, by then, it really will be too late to save everyone. Actually, it is already too late to save everyone. Those monsoons in South Asia are going to get worse and worse. Those storms and droughts in America are not going to get better.
The question is whether or not that realization happens in time to preserve our civilization. Right now it doesn't look good.
I recommend constant reminders to people about how there wasn't any winter and that not surprisingly this was the warmest spring on record across America ever, since we started taking measurements. Remind people that there is a reason food is getting more expensive and has to come from further away. Remind people that the drought in Texas looks pretty bad this year too.
| 114 |
reine.de.tout Sun, Jun 10, 2012 1:50:31pm |
ooops. Link to the story I mentioned, I got so flustered I forgot to include it:
| 115 |
Almost Killed by Space Hookers Sun, Jun 10, 2012 1:50:56pm |
re: #106 Gus
That is if there is even any other intelligent life forms out there. I happen to think that the odds are infinitesimally small. Yet it's sufficient enough to engage in such a thought exercise. So I envision our pathetic remnants floating in space while our planet sits lifeless or progressing, evolving, onto another dominant species. Maybe even from those ruins in a billion years another form of the human species will appear.
Not human... no way. Maybe cock-roaches.
| 116 |
Gus Sun, Jun 10, 2012 1:52:56pm |
re: #110 Interesting Times
I don't believe that - too many planets and stars and galaxies. Trouble is, they're so stupidly far apart that the odds of interplanetary species making contact is infinitesimally small (freetoken explained earlier that any radio signal coming from a far-enough distance degrades to the point where it's undetectable).
So, instead of saying "if there were intelligent life out there, we'd have come in contact with it by now", we should say "If faster-than-light travel could really happen, there would be evidence of it by now". No faster-than-light travel = no contact with other species, ever :(
I don't see a problem in believing that because there really is no need for there to be any other intelligent life form out there. I see it more as form of self-conscious flattery. So right now since there is an absence there is in effect no other intelligent life forms such as humans other than ourselves. It remains a mere postulation or thought exercise. A fantasy of sorts.
| 117 |
Gus Sun, Jun 10, 2012 1:53:22pm |
re: #115 LudwigVanQuixote
Not human... no way. Maybe cock-roaches.
That's the topic of the next thread. //
| 118 |
Almost Killed by Space Hookers Sun, Jun 10, 2012 1:54:51pm |
re: #112 b_sharp
Lovelock's hypothesis is about how living systems adapt through feedback and will create a new equilibrium or return if pushed out of an initial equilibrium. The Earth's ecosystem has recovered from several severe conditions, is closer to the centre (cooler) of the Goldilocks zone than Venus, has large oceans and an atmosphere much different than that of Venus.
Although I don't question the possibility of runaway warming, I have trouble believing it has anything but a near zero probability.
The idea of a major extinction initiated by humans is a different matter, as is the idea of severe and extended warming with disastrous effects. It not only can happen, it is happening.
So how well did the major disruption of an asteroid hit work for the dinosaurs?
Also, I promise had that asteroid been a big enough that it would have boiled the oceans and stripped the atmosphere.
All living things can be killed.
As to adaption and feedback. Sort of the point of extinction is that the critters can't adapt fast enough. There is a big enough knock that it would take everything.
However, I personally agree that runaway Venus would be hard to get to. It think it is likely that enough photosynthetic microbes will remain that over many millions of years carbon could be sequestered again.
| 119 |
b_sharp Sun, Jun 10, 2012 1:56:05pm |
re: #106 Gus
That is if there is even any other intelligent life forms out there. I happen to think that the odds are infinitesimally small. Yet it's sufficient enough to engage in such a thought exercise. So I envision our pathetic remnants floating in space while our planet sits lifeless or progressing, evolving, onto another dominant species. Maybe even from those ruins in a billion years another form of the human species will appear.
Intelligence isn't a necessary outcome of evolution, but the shear number of opportunities almost guarantees a few independent instances of intelligence. Unfortunately the distances and time involved almost certainly precludes two intelligent species on different planets ever meeting.
| 120 |
b_sharp Sun, Jun 10, 2012 1:57:16pm |
re: #107 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste
Though if we have offspring we are part of the continuum of life. We came from life uninterrupted and life proceeds uninterrupted from us. Red of tooth and claw for us as we animals consume other life to sustain our own.
Red in tooth and claw is a really bad metaphor for evolution.
| 121 |
sagehen Sun, Jun 10, 2012 1:58:02pm |
re: #95 Lidane
I have to take issue with this headline. I'm not convinced there are any reasonable Republicans running for office right now, given the sheer amount of stupid and fail they keep coming up with.
It's a totally accurate headline; you'll notice the article didn't mention a single candidate for any office. It points to donors and strategists, the kind of people who never bought into the culture war as anything other than a useful trick (which on some issues seems to have outlived its usefulness.)
That hedge fund guy cares a lot about his tax rates; he also cares a lot about his gay friends (family members? self?) being able to call their beloved "spouse". He'd like if both the things he cares about could be supported by one party -- and getting R's to accept gay marriage is slightly less of an uphill climb than getting D's to offer up more tax cuts.
| 122 |
Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste Sun, Jun 10, 2012 1:58:31pm |
re: #120 b_sharp
Red in tooth and claw is a really bad metaphor for evolution.
True. There are a lot of different mechanisms at work. And a lot of relationships besides predator/prey as well.
| 123 |
Gus Sun, Jun 10, 2012 2:01:35pm |
re: #119 b_sharp
Intelligence isn't a necessary outcome of evolution, but the shear number of opportunities almost guarantees a few independent instances of intelligence. Unfortunately the distances and time involved almost certainly precludes two intelligent species on different planets ever meeting.
Well sure. Sort of like there could also be other inhabitable planets out there that can sustain mammalian life forms. Or even reptilian life forms. That doesn't mean there would "intelligent" life on those planets either and billions of years away from a human like species. All of this of course is based on the organized randomness of nature anyway since there is no grand architecture, make that architect, behind it all.
| 124 |
b_sharp Sun, Jun 10, 2012 2:01:52pm |
re: #118 LudwigVanQuixote
So how well did the major disruption of an asteroid hit work for the dinosaurs?
Also, I promise had that asteroid been a big enough that it would have boiled the oceans and stripped the atmosphere.
All living things can be killed.
As to adaption and feedback. Sort of the point of extinction is that the critters can't adapt fast enough. There is a big enough knock that it would take everything.
However, I personally agree that runaway Venus would be hard to get to. It think it is likely that enough photosynthetic microbes will remain that over many millions of years carbon could be sequestered again.
Your last paragraph is my point.
| 125 |
Almost Killed by Space Hookers Sun, Jun 10, 2012 2:03:16pm |
re: #124 b_sharp
Your last paragraph is my point.
I know. But I truly can not rule out runaway Venus as a possibility, which is the point of the previous paragraphs.
| 126 |
b_sharp Sun, Jun 10, 2012 2:05:29pm |
re: #123 Gus
Well sure. Sort of like there could also be other inhabitable planets out there that can sustain mammalian life forms. Or even reptilian life forms. That doesn't mean there would "intelligent" life on those planets either and billions of years away from a human like species. All of this of course is based on the organized randomness of nature anyway since there is no grand architecture, make that architect, behind it all.
Self replication with modification, energy sources and trial and error will frequently produce something we can label 'life'.
| 127 |
Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste Sun, Jun 10, 2012 2:07:17pm |
re: #126 b_sharp
Self replication with modification, energy sources and trial and error will frequently produce something we can label 'life'.
Thought the first silicon-based form to adopt Windows (tm) is doomed to a quick extinction.
| 128 |
Interesting Times Sun, Jun 10, 2012 2:09:21pm |
re: #125 LudwigVanQuixote
I know. But I truly can not rule out runaway Venus as a possibility, which is the point of the previous paragraphs.
Do you agree with the relatively optimistic scenario Freetoken presents here? I thought a repeat of Permian was a more likely possibility than that.
| 129 |
Almost Killed by Space Hookers Sun, Jun 10, 2012 2:22:18pm |
re: #128 Interesting Times
Do you agree with the relatively optimistic scenario Freetoken presents here? I thought a repeat of Permian was a more likely possibility than that.
NO I do not agree with him.
Ever so slowly is is a very relative term. Since the 50's phytoplankton is down in concentration by over 50% for example.
To answer him directly, here is your most plausible near term extinction scenario.
Coasts flood, displacing millions as breadbaskets simultaneously turn to dust bowls. Disease vectors spread to new populations killing people and surviving crops alike. Fresh water supplies dry up in regions that depend on melt water creating even more desperate, malnourished refugees...
People start killing each other over what is left.
Nukes get used.
The end.
| 130 |
Almost Killed by Space Hookers Sun, Jun 10, 2012 2:31:39pm |
re: #128 Interesting Times
Do you agree with the relatively optimistic scenario Freetoken presents here? I thought a repeat of Permian was a more likely possibility than that.
Also he is wrong about SO2 tipping points not being seriously considered or outside of the models. And he is certainly wrong about pointing out worst case scenarios, since historically, our actual emissions keep outstripping the "worst cases" plugged into the models.
| 131 |
Interesting Times Sun, Jun 10, 2012 2:43:48pm |
re: #130 LudwigVanQuixote
Thanks. This was his follow-up in the same thread.
As for nukes, I'm predicting they may not be used for the simple reason that, why would you irradiate food and water supplies you want for yourself? I think a different WMD will used, one that kills humans en masse while leaving infrastructure, arable land, etc intact. A return to biological warfare, bolstered by the latest nanoscience. He with the best germs, wins :(
| 132 |
Amory Blaine Sun, Jun 10, 2012 2:50:17pm |
All these republican scumbags were lauding the brave firefighters at the world trade center on 9/11. If you didn't know then, that this is their position, you are blind.
| 133 |
jaunte Sun, Jun 10, 2012 2:53:17pm |
"He said we need more teachers..."
I was out running an errand, saw a white van in tow on the freeway. Spray-painted on the back:
IN TONW
| 134 |
Achilles Tang Sun, Jun 10, 2012 3:21:25pm |
re: #91 b_sharp
You'd be surprised.
Check Walt Brown's Hydroplate Theory.
This is really sad. I have known some of these pieces, but never read the whole replacement of all of mankind's achievements in knowledge of the universe trashed so utterly.
If I wanted to make anyone with half an education and half a brain feel like Einstein, I would either recommend crack or reading this.
| 135 |
labman57 Sun, Jun 10, 2012 6:40:05pm |
If conservatives had their way, these services (education, police, fire) would all be privatized ... and, of course, be provided at a profit-generating cost to the public.
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