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1 Benghazzy Ben Ross  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 9:02:46pm

Something kinda interesting.

ELLEN BARKIN SPEAKS OUT AGAINST UTAH NBC AFFILIATE’S BAN OF HER COMEDY ABOUT GAY PARENTS

Ellen Barkin is one of the stars of NBC’s The New Normal, a comedy series that follows the lives of a gay couple (the two guys at left), the single mother and law student who’s having their baby in exchange for educational funds (Barkin, middle), her daughter (bottom), her bigoted mother (second from right), and the gay dudes’ personal assistant (far right). Whether or not it actually pulls off being funny and thought provoking is a matter of some debate.

However, KSL-TV, one of NBC’s Utah affiliates, doesn’t seem to have been thinking along qualitative lines when they announced that they would refuse to broadcast the show, period, a decision that Barkin is putting down squarely at the door of censorship of positive portrayals of gay people.

2 jaunte  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 9:09:11pm

re: #1 Mocking Jay

"...as Barkin pointed out on her twitter, they still run Law & Order: SVU, which one might assume was full enough of “rude and crude” language, and explicit scenes or plots based around rape, child trafficking, and pedophilia."

Local standards rule, I guess.

3 jaunte  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 9:11:05pm

Greg Sargent proposes a novel new strategy for the media:
Call out the lies right in your headlines

"...I didn’t expect this, but the epic dishonesty of Romney’s campaign is finally prompting something of a debate among media types about whether what we’re seeing here is unprecedented — and how to appropriately respond to it. This debate is focused partly on whether there’s a racial dimension to this attack. But it’s also about (as I noted here yesterday) what the media should do when one campaign has decided that there is literally no set of boundaries or standards it needs to follow when it comes to the veracity of the core assertions at the heart of its entire argument.

There seems to be a bit of a strain of media defeatism settling in about this. James Bennet, the editor of the Atlantic, wrote yesterday that he is glad to see news outlets calling Romney’s falsehoods out for what they are. But he wondered whether we are about to discover that the press is essentially impotent in the face of this level of deliberate dishonesty: “what if it turns out that when the press calls a lie a lie, nobody cares?”

4 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 9:14:15pm

re: #3 jaunte

Greg Sargent proposes a novel new strategy for the media:
Call out the lies right in your headlines

Headline: Press makes bed. Has to lie in it.

5 freetoken  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 9:14:50pm

Based on tonight's convention, I offer that one, or both, of the following songs is the GOP conventioneers' speed:


MP3 Audio
MP3 Audio
6 jaunte  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 9:16:45pm

Greg Sargent:

"...the proper response to a speech like this isn’t to carefully analyze the logic, or to find instances of hypocrisy; it’s to call the speaker out for telling flat-out lies to the American people. Paul Ryan has had what I’ve long thought was an undeserved good reputation among many in the press and in Washington. It shouldn’t survive tonight’s speech."
[Link: www.washingtonpost.com...]

7 Gus  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 9:17:52pm

re: #6 jaunte

Greg Sargent Jonathan Bernstein:

:)

8 Mattand  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 9:21:18pm

re: #3 jaunte

Greg Sargent proposes a novel new strategy for the media:
Call out the lies right in your headlines

Romney has all but pledged to lie about Obama in order to win. The MSM should worry less about whether people believe them and more about growing a goddamn spine and call out every single lie the Romney campaign is running on.

9 Obdicut  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 9:22:04pm

re: #8 Mattand

Romney has all but pledged to lie about Obama in order to win.

I think he really has pledged that, basically, by continuing ads even after he's acknowledged they lack any factual basis.

10 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 9:24:39pm

re: #8 Mattand

Romney has all but pledged to lie about Obama in order to win. The MSM should worry less about whether people believe them and more about growing a goddamn spine and call out every single lie the Romney campaign is running on.

They're not in business to call people out, they are in business to make money. Going at Romney that hard will never happen for most media outlets, because it would cost them viewers/readers. And it would guarantee that if Romney won he'd freeze outlets that did so out. Better to collect your payday and keep your access if you're a business.

11 Lidane  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 9:25:17pm
12 dragonath  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 9:25:53pm

re: #10 Dark_Falcon

What is this, the mob?

13 Gus  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 9:26:30pm

I can't believe he repeated that Wisconsin plant lie. Again. At the RNC. On national television. In front of the delegates...

and God!

Seriously?

14 Mich-again  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 9:27:01pm

A plank in the platform..

The U. S. Forest Service controls about 193 mil-lion acres of land and employs 30,000 workers. The Forest Service should be charged to use these resources to the best economic potential for the nation

What is the Forest Service figures out the best thing is to do economically is sell off Alaska to China.

15 jaunte  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 9:27:35pm

re: #12 dragonath

"That's a nice cozy little access you got there, Chuck Todd; be a shame if anything was to happen to it..."

16 Lidane  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 9:27:44pm

re: #13 Gus

I can't believe he repeated that Wisconsin plant lie. Again. At the RNC. On national television. In front of the delegates...

and God!

Seriously?

The Romney campaign has outright said they're going to say whatever they have to in order to win, facts be damned. Why expect anything less than a bunch of bullshit?

17 Lidane  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 9:28:36pm
18 Benghazzy Ben Ross  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 9:29:08pm

re: #10 Dark_Falcon

They're not in business to call people out, they are in business to make money. Going at Romney that hard will never happen for most media outlets, because it would cost them viewers/readers. And it would guarantee that if Romney won he'd freeze outlets that did so out. Better to collect your payday and keep your access if you're a business.

Cynicism overdose.

19 Gus  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 9:29:43pm

re: #15 jaunte

"That's a nice cozy little access you got there, Chuck Todd; be a shame if anything was to happen to it..."

Lying for Jesus.

20 Benghazzy Ben Ross  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 9:31:54pm

I love how the credit downgraded credit rating is now Obama's fault.

21 Mattand  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 9:32:49pm

re: #10 Dark_Falcon

They're not in business to call people out, they are in business to make money. Going at Romney that hard will never happen for most media outlets, because it would cost them viewers/readers. And it would guarantee that if Romney won he'd freeze outlets that did so out. Better to collect your payday and keep your access if you're a business.

I gotta call "bullshit" on that they shouldn't call him out for his crap. It is possible they'd lose access, customers and revenue. However, we have a guy running for President who all but admits he will repeat any lie they can get their hands on. I mean, you're voting for the guy and you don't seem to disagree with that statement.

Admittedly this is a little idealistic, but the press has a moral and ethical duty to point out Romney's horseshit. This kind of a repeat of the run up to the Iraqi War; no one wants to be seen as rocking the boat. The man is not only lying to get into the White House, he's taunting everyone with it.

If that's not newsworthy, I don't know what is.

22 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 9:32:54pm

re: #12 dragonath

What is this, the mob?

No, but media companies today are run by people who think more like Mitt Romney than Ben Bradlee. They are in business to make money, and a course of action that seriously cuts into profits is undesirable. Profits are what gets you the bonuses and stock options.

23 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 9:33:29pm

re: #16 Lidane

The Romney campaign has outright said they're going to say whatever they have to in order to win, facts be damned. Why expect anything less than a bunch of bullshit?

And they don't expect any meaningful punishment for doing it either. The media isn't going to call them on it, there isn't going to be legislation banning them from doing it, and since they have done the analysis that probably says they lose the election otherwise, what do they have to lose?

Oh, you mean other than honor, integrity, and character?

24 jaunte  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 9:35:19pm

re: #23 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

honor, integrity, and character

Oh, those old things? I heard some people in WW2 had them.

25 Mich-again  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 9:36:06pm

The credit downgrade came right after the game of chicken the Teapublicans played with the debt limit.

26 blueraven  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 9:36:24pm

re: #10 Dark_Falcon

They're not in business to call people out, they are in business to make money. Going at Romney that hard will never happen for most media outlets, because it would cost them viewers/readers. And it would guarantee that if Romney won he'd freeze outlets that did so out. Better to collect your payday and keep your access if you're a business.

That is one cynical outlook you got there DF.

I take the opposite view. The media needs to stand up. Now
They are so intimidated by bogus leftie charges, which is a deliberate attempt by the way to silence them.
So now the republicans can just lie with impunity?

Hell no brother.
They would gain respect and as many viewers as they would lose.

27 Benghazzy Ben Ross  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 9:36:28pm

re: #22 Dark_Falcon

No, but media companies today are run by people who think more like Mitt Romney than Ben Bradlee. They are in business to make money, and a course of action that seriously cuts into profits is undesirable. Profits are what gets you the bonuses and stock options.

Shhh. There there. Don't let this upset you so much.

28 Lidane  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 9:36:30pm

re: #23 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

And they don't expect any meaningful punishment for doing it either. The media isn't going to call them on it, there isn't going to be legislation banning them from doing it, and since they have done the analysis that probably says they lose the election otherwise, what do they have to lose?

Oh, you mean other than honor, integrity, and character?

Your "liberal media" at work. They KNOW that these people are lying, but they're too chicken shit to call them out on it because they might lose access. Pathetic.

Personally, I'm loving all the people tweeting Chuck Todd to stop talking about how interesting Ryan's GM plant story was and telling him to call it the lie that it was.

29 makeitstopghazi  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 9:36:55pm

The Romney-Ryan campaign strategy, simply put, is a preview of a Romney-Ryan presidency:

They will lie to you. Again and again. And they will feel no shame or remorse for doing so.

They're telling you straight up that you can't trust them. And then they're asking for your vote.

30 Mich-again  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 9:37:21pm

re: #10 Dark_Falcon

They're not in business to call people out, they are in business to make money. Going at Romney that hard will never happen for most media outlets, because it would cost them viewers/readers. And it would guarantee that if Romney won he'd freeze outlets that did so out. Better to collect your payday and keep your access if you're a business.

Test the logic by applying an extreme example. it fails.

31 Benghazzy Ben Ross  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 9:37:37pm

re: #25 Mich-again

The credit downgrade came right after the game of chicken the Teapublicans played with the debt limit.

Yeah, I was around when that happened. Silly me, hoping that most other Americans were there too...

32 Targetpractice  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 9:38:02pm

re: #29 makeitstop

The Romney-Ryan campaign strategy, simply put, is a preview of a Romney-Ryan presidency:

They will lie to you. Again and again. And they will feel no shame or remorse for doing so.

They're telling you straight up that you can't trust them. And then they're asking for your vote.

Oh, so it's the Bush years all over again? Fun.

33 blueraven  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 9:38:13pm

re: #29 makeitstop

The Romney-Ryan campaign strategy, simply put, is a preview of a Romney-Ryan presidency:

They will lie to you. Again and again. And they will feel no shame or remorse for doing so.

They're telling you straight up that you can't trust them. And then they're asking for your vote.

And this needs to be told over and over at the DNC.

34 Lidane  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 9:38:18pm

re: #29 makeitstop

The Romney-Ryan campaign strategy, simply put, is a preview of a Romney-Ryan presidency:

They will lie to you. Again and again. And they will feel no shame or remorse for doing so.

They're telling you straight up that you can't trust them. And then they're asking for your vote.

And they're going to get votes from people who are either totally addled by ODS, or so utterly devoted to the GOP that they'll gladly fuck themselves over and vote for Romney in spite of the fact that their ideas would bankrupt people by the truckload.

35 Benghazzy Ben Ross  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 9:38:31pm

re: #32 Targetpractice

Oh, so it's the Bush years all over again? Fun.

Weapons of Mass Destruction!

36 Lidane  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 9:39:53pm

re: #35 Mocking Jay

Weapons of Mass Destruction!

Yellow cake!

37 dragonath  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 9:39:57pm

re: #22 Dark_Falcon

So, you're saying that modern newspapers would not have blown the lid off of Watergate, and you're okay with that.

In fact: you'd vote for the person who would have supressed that. Because profit.

38 Kragarghazi  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 9:40:16pm

Bryan Fischer spent the evening fellating Paul Ryan on Twitter.

39 makeitstopghazi  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 9:40:16pm

re: #32 Targetpractice

Oh, so it's the Bush years all over again? Fun.

At least Bush kept up a facade that they were telling you the truth. People saw through it, but Bush at least tried.

This is different. They're telling you they're going to lie. Some fucking brazen shit, right there.

40 Kragarghazi  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 9:40:32pm

re: #36 Lidane

Yellow cake!

The Cake was a lie.

41 freetoken  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 9:40:54pm

Ooohhh... a thunderstorm is drifting west over the mountains... rare for us sans tropical storm remnant over Baja.

42 Lidane  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 9:41:14pm

re: #40 Kragar

The Cake was a lie.

So was everything else about the Iraq war, but that didn't stop people from buying into it.

44 Mattand  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 9:41:34pm

re: #39 makeitstop

At least Bush kept up a facade that they were telling you the truth. People saw through it, but Bush at least tried.

This is different. They're telling you they're going to lie. Some ucking brazen shit, right there.

It helps that Fox News will back them up on it, no questions asked.

45 Lidane  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 9:41:59pm
46 Targetpractice  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 9:42:24pm

The thing about it is, as cynical as Dark's view of events is, it's also the one I'd say is the most representative of reality. I noted on another thread that we're not the consumers, we're not the customers, in the media paradigm. We're the product, which is sold to advertisers for 30-60 second blocks all the time. They're not scared that we'll up and leave, they're scared that the advertisers are gonna take their ball and go home. That Republicans will clam up and refuse to appear before the cameras in order to "punish" the media for presenting an unflattering portrayal.

We demand truth from the media, truth in the news, but the system's not geared towards truth anymore. It's geared towards entertainment, and a close presidential race between two "Same but Different" candidates is more entertaining than one imploding over a month before the first debate begins.

47 William Barnett-Lewis  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 9:42:26pm

re: #10 Dark_Falcon

Depends if you're a patriot or not, DF. If you are, you put your marker where you believe the nation should be, not where your pocket book should be. Otherwise we might as well throw the republic out the window and let an evil like Pinochet in the front door with a welcoming kiss.

But what do I know? I was just a sergeant in the army.

48 Benghazzy Ben Ross  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 9:42:55pm

re: #36 Lidane

Yellow cake!

Youtube Video
49 Stanghazi  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 9:42:55pm

re: #5 freetoken

Based on tonight's convention, I offer that one, or both, of the following songs is the GOP conventioneers' speed:

[Embedded content]

OMG, thanks.

50 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 9:43:27pm

re: #37 dragonath

So, you're saying that modern newspapers would not have blown the lid off of Watergate, and you're okay with that.

In fact: you'd vote for the person who would have supressed that. Because profit.

Would I have voted for Nixon, even knowing about Watergate? Hell, yes! Nixon might have been a crook after that, but George McGovern was incompetent and would have been a disaster as president. Competence is more important than decency in in a leader. You should always look for leaders with both, but if that is impossible go with competence.

51 Stanghazi  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 9:44:12pm

re: #10 Dark_Falcon

They're not in business to call people out, they are in business to make money. Going at Romney that hard will never happen for most media outlets, because it would cost them viewers/readers. And it would guarantee that if Romney won he'd freeze outlets that did so out. Better to collect your payday and keep your access if you're a business.

Lucky you and your liar co-voters.

52 William Barnett-Lewis  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 9:45:09pm

re: #42 Lidane

So was everything else about the Iraq war, but that didn't stop people from buying into it.

I had no problem with our initial operations in Afghanistan. Had we completed them properly, our forces would have been home, with OBL dead, before the end of W's first term. But we got stupid instead...

53 Targetpractice  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 9:45:34pm

re: #37 dragonath

So, you're saying that modern newspapers would not have blown the lid off of Watergate, and you're okay with that.

In fact: you'd vote for the person who would have supressed that. Because profit.

The modern media exists primarily as a result of Watergate, of the stripping off of the thin veneer of "respectability" of politicians. Thing is, half the shit that was illegal back during Watergate, chief amongst it money-laundering to pay off the operatives, is perfectly legal now in the wake of decisions like Citizens United.

54 Stanghazi  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 9:45:36pm

re: #12 dragonath

What is this, the mob?

HAHAHAHA, Chicago personified.

55 Stanghazi  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 9:46:11pm

re: #13 Gus

I can't believe he repeated that Wisconsin plant lie. Again. At the RNC. On national television. In front of the delegates...

and God!

Seriously?

56 Gus  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 9:46:11pm

Well. Obama's not in the context of the plant closure thing. That's not gonna work.

57 Gus  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 9:46:20pm
58 Gus  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 9:46:43pm

DF will like that. ;)

59 William Barnett-Lewis  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 9:46:43pm

re: #50 Dark_Falcon

You might pause and reconsider what you're saying about Senator McGovern. Just remember what he did in B-24's on a daily basis ~25-30 years earlier.

60 freetoken  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 9:46:53pm

re: #56 Gus

Well. Obama's not in the context of the plant closure thing. That's not gonna work.

Oh, but for the intended audience it will.

61 Gus  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 9:46:54pm

Including my bipartisanship.

//

62 Lidane  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 9:47:15pm

re: #50 Dark_Falcon

So what part of the GOP has shown any competence in the last four years?

63 Gus  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 9:47:36pm

re: #60 freetoken

Oh, but for the intended audience it will.

Well yeah. We can talk subliminal or Freudian messaging. But that's a real inside baseball talking point that won't work with the general voting public.

64 jaunte  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 9:47:51pm

Paul Ryan Is the Newest New Nixon, a Moocher Belied
By Charles P. Pierce
at 12:40AM
[Link: www.esquire.com...]


"...a flight of rhetoric that is so belied by the events of his own life that it's a wonder his tongue didn't catch on fire simultaneously with his trousers"

65 Mattand  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 9:48:36pm

re: #50 Dark_Falcon

Would I have voted for Nixon, even knowing about Watergate? Hell, yes! Nixon might have been a crook after that, but George McGovern was incompetent and would have been a disaster as president. Competence is more important than decency in in a leader. You should always look for leaders with both, but if that is impossible go with competence.

The problem with Romney is that in order to prove he's more competent than Obama, he is literally making shit up.

Let me repeat that: Romney lies about Obama's record and then cites said lies as proof he'd be a better President.

Also add in that Romney refuses to talk about what policy he'd implement as POTUS, on the childish reason that people might distort his views or take them out of a context.

You're a smart guy. You really want an admitted liar who handles criticism like a 4 year old to run the country?

66 Lidane  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 9:48:37pm

re: #52 William Barnett-Lewis

I had no problem with our initial operations in Afghanistan. Had we completed them properly, our forces would have been home, with OBL dead, before the end of W's first term. But we got stupid instead...

I had no issue with going into Afghanistan to get Bin Laden. That made sense.

Iraq? Not so much. It's always felt like Dubya making up for Daddy not invading Iraq back in the 90's.

67 Gus  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 9:48:46pm

I'm going to have to read that part... where's the transcript again?

68 engineer cat  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 9:48:53pm

well, i've listened to two full days of the republican convention, but as of yet no republican seems interested in explaining to me any details about how they intend to revive the economy and fix medicare's fiscal future

i'm beginning to suspect they have an empty hand and are bluffing

69 Gus  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 9:48:59pm

Mind you I'm freaking boiling over here.

70 dragonath  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 9:49:31pm

The convergence of the full moon and Romney's speech must be very exciting for rabid animals everywhere.

71 Targetpractice  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 9:50:32pm

re: #65 Mattand

The problem with Romney is that in order to prove he's more competent than Obama, he is literally making shit up.

Let me repeat that: Romney lies about Obama's record and then cites said lies as proof he'd be a better President.

Also add in that Romney refuse to talk about what policy he'd implement as POTUS, on the childish reason that people might distort his views or take them out of a context.

You're a smart guy. You really want an admitted liar who handles criticism like a 4 year old to run the country?

It's not that he wants Romney, it's that he doesn't want Obama in the White House anymore. Romney's a means to an end, not the end.

72 engineer cat  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 9:50:36pm

Not really because he was using it as an example of Obama's false promises

"ya see, no actual false promises were available, so we just used some fake ones"

73 Gus  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 9:50:38pm

...

President Barack Obama came to office during an economic crisis, as he has reminded us a time or two. Those were very tough days, and any fair measure of his record has to take that into account. My home state voted for President Obama. When he talked about change, many people liked the sound of it, especially in Janesville, where we were about to lose a major factory.

A lot of guys I went to high school with worked at that GM plant. Right there at that plant, candidate Obama said: “I believe that if our government is there to support you … this plant will be here for another hundred years.” That’s what he said in 2008.

Well, as it turned out, that plant didn’t last another year. It is locked up and empty to this day. And that’s how it is in so many towns today, where the recovery that was promised is nowhere in sight.

Read more: [Link: www.politico.com...]

74 Gus  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 9:51:07pm

I don't see it. That fucker!

75 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 9:51:08pm

re: #66 Lidane

I had no issue with going into Afghanistan to get Bin Laden. That made sense.

Iraq? Not so much. It's always felt like Dubya making up for Daddy not invading Iraq back in the 90's.

Daddy didn't invade because he and his advisers knew that the occupation would be a much larger and longer effort than going in and bringing Saddam down. Plus the realpolitik decision of wanting Iraq somewhat intact as a counterbalance to Iran.

76 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 9:52:12pm

re: #72 engineer cat

Not really because he was using it as an example of Obama's false promises

"ya see, no actual false promises were available, so we just used some fake ones"

When in doubt go with "fake, but accurate" or "not based on factual information". ;)

77 Benghazzy Ben Ross  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 9:53:19pm

BTW, I highly recommend The Booth at the End to all lizards. Very good show only on Hulu.

78 freetoken  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 9:53:20pm

re: #63 Gus

But that's a real inside baseball talking point that won't work with the general voting public.

My take is that Paul Ryan's purpose on the ticket is to get the "base", those who turned out in the Congressional elections of 2010, to vote for Romney.

There is still considerable backlash from fundamentalists against Romney's Mormonism. That has to be overcome.

79 Lidane  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 9:53:40pm

re: #75 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

Daddy didn't invade because he and his advisers knew that the occupation would be a much larger and longer effort than going in and bringing Saddam down. Plus the realpolitik decision of wanting Iraq somewhat intact as a counterbalance to Iran.

Oh, I know. Even Darth Cheney knew that invading Iraq back then was a shitty idea. But all of a sudden, 9/11 happened and Saddam Hussein was suddenly a useful target, despite the fact that Bin Laden hated Saddam for being a secular leader.

Yeah, Saddam was a tyrant and an asshole and I'm not sorry he's dead. But seriously? We've done more to destabilize the region by invading Iraq than Saddam did by being alive.

80 Mich-again  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 9:53:48pm

re: #22 Dark_Falcon

No, but media companies today are run by people who think more like Mitt Romney than Ben Bradlee. They are in business to make money, and a course of action that seriously cuts into profits is undesirable. Profits are what gets you the bonuses and stock options.

It's one thing to be coerced into not covering something in order to not piss off the sponsors. Say for example Tienanmen Square or Prince Harry playing strip pool in Vegas. Its another thing to willfully propagate lies and avoid fact-checking just because it was a political candidate who violated Truth in Advertising and not a corporation. At that point the mission changes from being a media outlet to a public relations firm.

I'm not sure if there are changes in legal or tax status between being a media outlet and being a PR firm, but it seems crazy to me that you can't lie in a toothpaste commercial, but the person who wants to rule the world can lie through his teeth and everyone who has press credentials has to report it as fact.

81 Mattand  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 9:54:14pm

re: #66 Lidane

I had no issue with going into Afghanistan to get Bin Laden. That made sense.

Iraq? Not so much. It's always felt like Dubya making up for Daddy not invading Iraq back in the 90's.

I'm glad I'm not the only who thinks that. I still catch shit from some people when I say we needed to go into Afghanistan after 9/11.

And, yes, W's (IMO) Iraq-flavored Daddy issues kept him from bagging Bin Laden.

82 engineer cat  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 9:55:47pm

Competence is more important than decency

i recall that dukakis ran on competence for all the good it did him

and - dark - could you possibly trouble yourself to explain what you think it is that R&R are going to do to revive the economy and save medicare?

the people at the convention don't seem interested in explaining it

83 Targetpractice  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 9:56:41pm

re: #80 Mich-again

It's one thing to be coerced into not covering something in order to not piss off the sponsors. Say for example Tienanmen Square or Prince Harry playing strip pool in Vegas. Its another thing to willfully propagate lies and avoid fact-checking just because it was a political candidate who violated Truth in Advertising and not a corporation. At that point the mission changes from being a media outlet to a public relations firm.

I'm not sure if there are changes in legal or tax status between being a media outlet and being a PR firm, but it seems crazy to me that you can't lie in a toothpaste commercial, but the person who wants to rule the world can lie through his teeth and everyone who has press credentials has to report it as fact.

That's where they start playing the "shades of grey" game, arguing that it wasn't "technically" a lie, just "inaccurate" or "not entirely factual." You're right, they act like a PR firm, but that's because they're trying to keep the product (entertainment) fresh. An Obama landslide isn't entertaining, especially if the stage gets set two months in advance because the media decided to be totally honest that Romney and Ryan are anything but.

84 Lidane  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 9:57:15pm

re: #65 Mattand

You're a smart guy. You really want an admitted liar who handles criticism like a 4 year old to run the country?

Of course he does. That admitted liar who throws temper tantrums has an (R) after his name. That's all some folks need to know.

85 Gus  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 9:57:41pm

It's a weak argument that's for sure.

86 engineer cat  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 9:57:52pm

i don't think i've ever heard a more content-free republican campaign

87 ReamWorks SKG  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 9:59:36pm

I'm reading a fascinating book by Ryan Holiday called "Trust Me: I'm Lying" about how "news" percolates up from bloggers (who can be bought cheaply) up the chain to new organization blogs, and then into legitimate news sources.

[Link: www.amazon.com...]

Sort of like Alan Abel for the digital age. Except he didn't do it for the sake of art; Holiday's doing it to make money for his clients.

88 Benghazzy Ben Ross  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 9:59:39pm

re: #85 Gus

It's a weak argument that's for sure.

Less-filling.

89 ReamWorks SKG  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 10:00:09pm

Ok! Now I have to get to bed to catch an early flight to MIA for a Bris this Sunday.

90 William Barnett-Lewis  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 10:00:30pm

re: #78 freetoken

My take is that Paul Ryan's purpose on the ticket is to get the "base", those who turned out in the Congressional elections of 2010, to vote for Romney.

There is still considerable backlash from fundamentalists against Romney's Mormonism. That has to be overcome.

That is his only purpose. They aren't interested in going his distance... yet...

91 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 10:01:20pm

re: #59 William Barnett-Lewis

You might pause and reconsider what you're saying about Senator McGovern. Just remember what he did in B-24's on a daily basis ~25-30 years earlier.

As a bomber commander, he was competent. But there are many leaders who do well leading small units but fail when they try to lead large units. Even more that that, he'd developed a pacifist streak that would have been a serious falling as president.

92 Targetpractice  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 10:01:28pm

re: #86 engineer cat

i don't think i've ever heard a more content-free republican campaign

It's nothing but anger, bile, and resentment. Wrapped in pretty paper, intended to fool people into believing that there's anything of substance underneath. I've heard pundits say that bringing Ryan on as VP meant Romney was turning the campaign into an argument over ideas, about the electorate being able to compare the two candidate's on their ideas and proposals. Thing is, I haven't heard a bloody thing in the last two nights but hate, hate, and more hate. Oh, and they mention some guy named "Mitt" on occasion, but that's before they go back to talking about how much they're not like Obama and/or stumping for inevitable 2016 campaigns.

93 William Barnett-Lewis  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 10:02:28pm

re: #89 ReamWorks SKG

Ok! Now I have to get to bed to catch an early flight to MIA for a Bris this Sunday.

God bless you, yours &, most especially, the young guy at the heart of the ceremony ;)

94 ReamWorks SKG  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 10:03:29pm

re: #93 William Barnett-Lewis

It's my business partner's son. He was born early, so the bris was delayed. It's nice to see him home and ready for it.

95 Stanghazi  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 10:05:38pm

re: #50 Dark_Falcon

Would I have voted for Nixon, even knowing about Watergate? Hell, yes! Nixon might have been a crook after that, but George McGovern was incompetent and would have been a disaster as president. Competence is more important than decency in in a leader. You should always look for leaders with both, but if that is impossible go with competence.

Competence is more important than decency in in a leader

Chew on that under Pol Pot.

96 Mich-again  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 10:05:46pm

re: #86 engineer cat

i don't think i've ever heard a more content-free republican campaign

They surrendered the middle and are trying to attract the far right instead. The Paulians will pull the chair out from under Romney just like Le Pen did to Sarkozy.

97 Gus  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 10:06:13pm

So Paul Ryan is using the Janesville GM plant example as reason to point out Obama's failed promises yet it was Obama that spearheaded the salvation of GM and prevented further plant closures.

Got it.

98 Dancing along the light of day  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 10:06:29pm

re: #41 freetoken

Lots of lightening in your clouds! I can see it from here, North of you.

99 Targetpractice  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 10:07:27pm

re: #96 Mich-again

They surrendered the middle and are trying to attract the far right instead. The Paulians will pull the chair out from under Romney just like Le Pen did to Sarkozy.

If the rumbling and grumbling is to believed, they're already in that process. Don't even think the little love note to Crazy Uncle Liberty or allowing Aqua Buddah to start polishing himself for his own future presidential campaign will be enough to soothe the anger over denying them their chance Tuesday to throw a bit of chaos into the nomination.

100 Gus  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 10:07:56pm

That's kind of fucked up.

101 Gus  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 10:08:26pm

OK. Ryan didn't say Obama was responsible for the plant closure. What he really said was "I'm a douche bag."

102 ReamWorks SKG  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 10:09:26pm

re: #97 Gus

They get the "angry middle". The people who, despite paying relatively low taxes and get handouts like the mortgage interest deduction, student loan debt forgiveness (after 20 years of payments), etc. think they're being taxed too much because they don't realize how much they get back from the Government.

103 freetoken  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 10:09:38pm

re: #98 Dancing along the light of day

A west moving storm was following Interstate 8:

[Link: radar.weather.gov...]


It's dying, of course, as these storms usually do. Yesterday there was a storm that formed over the eastern suburban areas and moved west to the ocean, but it didn't last long.

104 Gus  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 10:09:43pm

See. You can make a silk purse out of a pigs ear.

105 Targetpractice  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 10:09:51pm

re: #97 Gus

So Paul Ryan is using the Janesville GM plant example as reason to point out Obama's failed promises yet it was Obama that spearheaded the salvation of GM and prevented further plant closures.

Got it.

I'm arguing with a wingnut on another board about the Bailout, and he's slowly backing himself into a corner. He's all but admitted that he had no problem with the government stepping in to provide the funds for Chap 11, just that Bush and then Obama didn't take the chance to force the UAW to knuckle under to management's demands.

106 Mich-again  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 10:10:29pm

re: #97 Gus

So Paul Ryan is using the Janesville GM plant example as reason to point out Obama's failed promises yet it was Obama that spearhead the salvation of GM and prevented further plant closures.

Got it.

Mitt is on record saying it all should have been liquidated.

107 William Barnett-Lewis  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 10:10:37pm

re: #91 Dark_Falcon

As a bomber commander, he was competent. But there are many leaders who do well leading small units but fail when they try to lead large units. Even more that that, he'd developed a pacifist streak that would have been a serious falling as president.

While there is a part of me that thinks that he would not have been as good a president overall ("Only Nixon could go to China" Cmdr Spock) I do know that as a nation we might well have been better off with less damage done on a daily basis to the honor of the office by Nixon, a paranoid anti-semite. (Yeah, he sent lots of toys on Yom Kippur, he also hated "them" (the Russians) even more.). Perhaps McGovern might have gotten us out of Vietnam with a somewhat smaller number of black zip locks coming home? By the point of the 1972 election no other outcome was going to happen in the Vietnamese civil war.

Ah well, I get touchy about Vietnam. I may not have been old enough to serve there but my son was born in Phan Thiet in 2002. That's enough reason to give those old SOB's a drop kick whenever possible.

108 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 10:12:05pm

re: #95 Stanley Sea

Competence is more important than decency in in a leader

Chew on that under Pol Pot.

Idjit, and scary one at that.

And thus the point is made: Pol Pot was both monstrously indecent and utterly incompetent. He was man with a chip on his shoulder who wanted to punish those parts of society he felt had looked down on him in his younger days, and then transform Cambodia into a perfect and classless society. In other words, he wanted Utopia but did not understand that in Latin it means "no place".

109 Stanghazi  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 10:12:47pm

re: #96 Mich-again

They surrendered the middle and are trying to attract the far right instead. The Paulians will pull the chair out from under Romney just like Le Pen did to Sarkozy.

The Paulians, while I disagree, were dissed, and they are pissed. They are also a formidable organization?

110 Dancing along the light of day  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 10:12:51pm

re: #103 freetoken

I had a rainbow for over 2 hours yesterday, it was raining high up in the clouds, but not hitting the ground. I have never ever seen a rainbow last that long. Glorious sunset, as well!

111 Targetpractice  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 10:12:54pm

re: #106 Mich-again

Mitt is on record saying it all should have been liquidated.

No no, "managed bankruptcy." You know, one that was supposed to happen in the total absence of outside help because the government's money is bad and everybody else was content to sit back and see which of the Big Three filed for Chap 7 first.

112 ReamWorks SKG  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 10:13:58pm

They could eliminate the deficit if they got rid of this one handout

[Link: www.moneynews.com...]

It costs about $450 Billion

...but then they'd lose the middle!

113 Gus  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 10:15:07pm

re: #102 ReamWorks SKG

They get the "angry middle". The people who, despite paying relatively low taxes and get handouts like the mortgage interest deduction, student loan debt forgiveness (after 20 years of payments), etc. think they're being taxed too much!

Dey tuk er jobs!

114 Mich-again  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 10:15:16pm

re: #105 Targetpractice

I'm arguing with a wingnut on another board about the Bailout, and he's slowly backing himself into a corner. He's all but admitted that he had no problem with the government stepping in to provide the funds for Chap 11, just that Bush and then Obama didn't take the chance to force the UAW to knuckle under to management's demands.

Well then he is to the left of Mitt who wanted it all to go belly up.

115 OhNoBenghazi!  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 10:15:45pm

re: #109 Stanley Sea

It's possible that they will pull a Nader and split the (R) vote.

116 Targetpractice  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 10:15:52pm

re: #112 ReamWorks SKG

They could eliminate the deficit if they got rid of this one handout

[Link: www.moneynews.com...]

It costs about $450 Billion

...but then they'd lose the middle!

Every economist (or rather, every honest one) I read when the Ryan "Plan" came out said the same thing: There's no way you could make the tax code "revenue neutral" and not end up dumping the cost on the middle class. Almost all of them named the Mortgage Deduction as the first thing that would end up on the chopping block.

117 freetoken  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 10:15:53pm

The quantity of derpitude, especially religious derpitude, is quite large this year. Mormonism is a strangely American religion, and when it is crossed with Paulian isolationism one can see some strange eddies of derp forming. E.g., from a religious right host on a Paulian outlet:

Good Mormons Don’t Vote for Mitt...

The guest reaffirms that the Mormons believe the US Constitution is "inspired" and the , etc.

And then we have the Religious Right Tea Partying mess:


Is the Christian Right poised to re-elect Obama?

He signed a bill that allows for the murder of babies for only $50! He believes that homosexuality is not a sin! He wrote and authored Obama-Care and hand delivered it to Barack Obama himself with instructions on how to shove it down the collective throat of America. He is a cult member and is on the side of Satan himself!

And this is only the beginning of what I am hearing from the Christian right, regarding Governor Mitt Romney or ” Mittens ” as they call him. Alright, I confess; I did stretch my blanket a bit on the hand delivered health-care bill. The rest is about 99% accurate. To make matters worse, it doesn’t stop there.

[...]

Stupidity runneth over.

118 Lidane  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 10:16:27pm
119 Targetpractice  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 10:16:54pm

re: #115 OhNoZombies!

It's possible that they will pull a Nader and split the (R) vote.

Won't be surprised if there's a few thousand write-ins for Luap Nor, as well as a lot of votes for Gary Johnson. I think what will end up being more damaging is those who simply decide the whole thing's rigged and choose to stay home instead.

120 Mattand  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 10:17:35pm

re: #115 OhNoZombies!

It's possible that they will pull a Nader and split the (R) vote.

I don't see that happening. I just don't think they're that big a bloc within the GOP. Kinda like your neighbor's Yorkie; a tiny little thing that whose bark is inversely proportional to its size.

121 Stanghazi  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 10:17:48pm

re: #107 William Barnett-Lewis

While there is a part of me that thinks that he would not have been as good a president overall ("Only Nixon could go to China" Cmdr Spock) I do know that as a nation we might well have been better off with less damage done on a daily basis to the honor of the office by a paranoid anti-semite. (Yeah, he sent lots of toys on Yom Kippur, he also hated "them" even more.). Perhaps he might have gotten us out of Vietnam with a somewhat smaller number of black zip locks coming home? By the point of the 1972 election no other outcome was going to happen in the vietnamese civil war.

Ah well, I get touchy about Vietnam. I may not have been old enough to serve there but my son was born in Phan Thiet in 2002. That's enough reason to give those old SOB's a drop kick whenever possible.

Interesting point for DF. President Nixon and his spawn that served in Bush 1 & 2 were anti-semites. Recorded. No bother?

The hypocrisy with the gop just kills me.

122 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 10:18:01pm

re: #107 William Barnett-Lewis

While there is a part of me that thinks that he would not have been as good a president overall ("Only Nixon could go to China" Cmdr Spock) I do know that as a nation we might well have been better off with less damage done on a daily basis to the honor of the office by a paranoid anti-semite. (Yeah, he sent lots of toys on Yom Kippur, he also hated "them" even more.). Perhaps he might have gotten us out of Vietnam with a somewhat smaller number of black zip locks coming home? By the point of the 1972 election no other outcome was going to happen in the vietnamese civil war.

Ah well, I get touchy about Vietnam. I may not have been old enough to serve there but my son was born in Phan Thiet in 2002. That's enough reason to give those old SOB's a drop kick whenever possible.

Nixon was already getting us out of Vietnam, and we would have been gone in early 1973 no matter who won. The Yom Kippur War was far more serious on the score of who was president. I feel certain McGovern would have refused to resupply Israel, instead pressing for negotiations that Egypt and Syria would have rejected in favor of pressing their advantage. The result would have been far greater Israeli casualties, at a minimum.

McGovern wasn't (and still isn't) a bigot, but his refusal to see the world as it really was would have proved disastrous, first for Israel but ultimately for America.

123 engineer cat  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 10:18:27pm

re: #111 Targetpractice

No no, "managed bankruptcy." You know, one that was supposed to happen in the total absence of outside help because the government's money is bad and everybody else was content to sit back and see which of the Big Three filed for Chap 7 first.

yeah - this theory worked so well for salomon bros that it became the last straw that pushed the economy over the edge in 2008

when i was over in britain in 2009 every time the recession was mentioned on the news over there they included "that was started by the bankruptcy of salomon bros"

oh, and by the way, dark - you haven't spoken up to help me to understand why you think romney would do a better job of fixing the economy and medicare yet

124 ReamWorks SKG  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 10:18:43pm

re: #116 Targetpractice

The middle is so dependent on government handouts. That's what's infuriating to me. Give the conservative middle a taste of their own philosophy and stop propping them up!

Of course, you can't promise to raise taxes! You'd lose. (But I'd vote for the first candidate who pledges to raise EVERY tax bracket--from 10% to 35%, as well as the dividend tax rate--up a point! Aren't we all in this together!?)

Ok! Now I really need to get to bed to wake up for a 6:30 flight. Good night to you all!

126 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 10:20:38pm

re: #121 Stanley Sea

Interesting point for DF. President Nixon and his spawn that served in Bush 1 & 2 were anti-semites. Recorded. No bother?

The hypocrisy with the gop just kills me.

Cheney, Rumsfeld, and George Bush the Elder are not anti-Semites. Nixon was, but none of them were then, nor are they now, guilty of Jew hatred.

127 freetoken  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 10:20:48pm

Christian Leader Calls Republicans to Nominate Ron Paul for President – Gives 7 Reasons Why

He continues, “If Republicans nominate Mormon Romney, who thinks Jesus is a created being, the spirit brother of Lucifer, then Christians should abandon, by mass exodus, the Republican and Democrat parties, and join the Constitution Party, whose Christian candidate, Virgil Goode, also exhibits Paul’s strengths. (Galatians 1:9)”

128 Hercules Grytpype-Thynne  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 10:20:58pm

re: #108 Dark_Falcon

In other words, he wanted Utopia but did not understand that in Latin it means "no place".

Greek.

129 Stanghazi  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 10:21:02pm

re: #108 Dark_Falcon

And thus the point is made: Pol Pot was both monstrously indecent and utterly incompetent. He was man with a chip on his shoulder who wanted to punish those parts of society he felt had looked down on him in his younger days, and then transform Cambodia into a perfect and classless society. In other words, he wanted Utopia but did not understand that in Latin it means "no place".

Oh, dude, he was COMPETENT. VERY VERY COMPETENT.

You said, "Competence is more important than decency in in a leader."

These fucks were VERY competent.

Propaganda is succeeding, humanity is receding.

130 Mattand  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 10:21:03pm

re: #123 engineer cat

oh, and by the way, dark - you haven't spoken up to help me to understand why you think romney would do a better job of fixing the economy and medicare yet

I'm also wondering why anyone would support an unrepentant, brazen liar for President.

131 OhNoBenghazi!  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 10:21:47pm

re: #120 Mattand

Maybe. It was just a guess. I've just noticed a surprising number of Luap signs around here lately.
More than anything, I think more than a few will just stay at home because of Mitt's faulty wiring.

132 Mattand  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 10:22:28pm

re: #131 OhNoZombies!

Maybe. It was just a guess. I've just noticed a surprising number of Luap signs around here lately.
More than anything, I think more than a few will just stay at home because of Mitt's faulty wiring.

Either way works for me.

133 Mich-again  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 10:22:59pm

re: #111 Targetpractice

No no, "managed bankruptcy." You know, one that was supposed to happen in the total absence of outside help because the government's money is bad and everybody else was content to sit back and see which of the Big Three filed for Chap 7 first.

There was no private equity available or willing at the time and the Government bailout was the only option. What Mitt and his job creator friends don't get is that you don't just get to make up hypothetical Utopian alternative realities, you need to go back to the point that the allegedly bad decision was made and convince me how a different decision at that point would have produced a better result.

This is where Mitt and the GOP fall flat on their face when they talk about the bailout. In all likelihood, their favored liquidation path in the middle of a banking crisis would have led to economic calamity but now in the safety of the present they are free to sit around and contemplate even better alternative realities.

134 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 10:23:46pm

re: #128 Hercules Grytpype-Thynne

Greek.

I stand corrected.

135 OhNoBenghazi!  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 10:25:55pm

re: #132 Mattand

Me too.
I don't just want Obama to win, I want Romney to lose.
-I stole that line, and I'm keeping it !

136 Mich-again  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 10:27:45pm

re: #127 freetoken

and join the Constitution Party, whose Christian candidate, Virgil Goode, also exhibits Paul’s strengths. (Galatians 1:9)”

God saw all that he had made, and it was very Goode. (for President.)

137 Stanghazi  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 10:27:51pm

Thanks for the conver. D_F remember the WOMEN.

good night!

138 Gus  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 10:29:01pm

On a re-read, it "implies" that Obama is at fault for Janesville closing. It doesn't directly implicate him but it's there.

139 OhNoBenghazi!  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 10:29:44pm

School is in. Early start.
Have a good night, and please oh please, don't drop that yellow cake !!

140 engineer cat  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 10:29:52pm

i want ryan to lose even more

i don't want to spend the rest of my life in a country with a destroyed medical insurance system and no more middle class

besides, the guy lies with such persistence and talent he seems more and more to resemble the dsm description of a sociopath

141 Mich-again  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 10:29:57pm

re: #138 Gus

On a re-read, it "implies" that Obama is at fault for Janesville closing. It doesn't directly implicate him but it's there.

If it mentions Obama and Janesville in the same paragraph its a load of shit.

142 Targetpractice  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 10:30:30pm

re: #133 Mich-again

What Mitt and his buddies won't admit is they were willing to allow the Big Three to fail in order to kill to the UAW. That is the biggest gripe they have to this day, that UAW not only still exists, but that Obama took their side rather than engaging in some Reaganesque union-busting by ordering the union leadership to accept the Big Three's demands "or else."

143 engineer cat  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 10:31:39pm

can there be any better condemnation of the republican campaign of 2012 than the fact that absolutely none of them will touch any details of their supposed solutions with a ten foot pole?

144 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 10:32:33pm

It's past 12:30 here, so I'm going to bed.

145 The Ghost of a Benghazi Flea  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 10:34:17pm

re: #143 engineer cat

can there be any better condemnation of the republican campaign of 2012 than the fact that absolutely none of them will touch any details of their supposed solutions with a ten foot pole?

Clap if you believe: the bold and serious solution.

146 engineer cat  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 10:34:33pm

re: #138 Gus

On a re-read, it "implies" that Obama is at fault for Janesville closing. It doesn't directly implicate him but it's there.

ryan might feel good tonite becuz of all the ecstatic cheering, but he's guaranteed that the only thing the country will hear about that speech for the next week is that he said something that couldn't possibly be true

you only get one or at the most two things out of any speech that most people will learn about, and that will be it

147 Gus  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 10:35:20pm
148 engineer cat  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 10:36:44pm

how much of this summary of the dsm symptomology of a sociopath fits ryan?

Glibness and Superficial Charm

Manipulative and Conning
They never recognize the rights of others and see their self-serving behaviors as permissible. They appear to be charming, yet are covertly hostile and domineering, seeing their victim as merely an instrument to be used. They may dominate and humiliate their victims.

Grandiose Sense of Self
Feels entitled to certain things as "their right."

Pathological Lying
Has no problem lying coolly and easily and it is almost impossible for them to be truthful on a consistent basis. Can create, and get caught up in, a complex belief about their own powers and abilities. Extremely convincing and even able to pass lie detector tests.

Lack of Remorse, Shame or Guilt
A deep seated rage, which is split off and repressed, is at their core. Does not see others around them as people, but only as targets and opportunities. Instead of friends, they have victims and accomplices who end up as victims. The end always justifies the means and they let nothing stand in their way.

Shallow Emotions
When they show what seems to be warmth, joy, love and compassion it is more feigned than experienced and serves an ulterior motive. Outraged by insignificant matters, yet remaining unmoved and cold by what would upset a normal person. Since they are not genuine, neither are their promises.

Incapacity for Love

Need for Stimulation
Living on the edge. Verbal outbursts and physical punishments are normal. Promiscuity and gambling are common.

Callousness/Lack of Empathy
Unable to empathize with the pain of their victims, having only contempt for others' feelings of distress and readily taking advantage of them.

Poor Behavioral Controls/Impulsive Nature
Rage and abuse, alternating with small expressions of love and approval produce an addictive cycle for abuser and abused, as well as creating hopelessness in the victim. Believe they are all-powerful, all-knowing, entitled to every wish, no sense of personal boundaries, no concern for their impact on others.

Early Behavior Problems/Juvenile Delinquency
Usually has a history of behavioral and academic difficulties, yet "gets by" by conning others. Problems in making and keeping friends; aberrant behaviors such as cruelty to people or animals, stealing, etc.

Irresponsibility/Unreliability
Not concerned about wrecking others' lives and dreams. Oblivious or indifferent to the devastation they cause. Does not accept blame themselves, but blames others, even for acts they obviously committed.

Promiscuous Sexual Behavior/Infidelity
Promiscuity, child sexual abuse, rape and sexual acting out of all sorts.

Lack of Realistic Life Plan/Parasitic Lifestyle
Tends to move around a lot or makes all encompassing promises for the future, poor work ethic but exploits others effectively.

Criminal or Entrepreneurial Versatility
Changes their image as needed to avoid prosecution. Changes life story readily.

149 William Barnett-Lewis  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 10:39:16pm

re: #147 Gus

[Embedded content]

Even _they_ couldn't fake it?

KT's gonna be crying to beat the band in the morning,

150 Mich-again  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 10:39:24pm

re: #148 engineer cat

When you act nuts people try to figure out what kind of nuts. SO what does it say will drive that person crazy?

151 The Ghost of a Benghazi Flea  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 10:39:28pm

re: #148 engineer cat

Or he could just be a entitled pseudointellectual.

152 Gus  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 10:39:55pm

re: #149 William Barnett-Lewis

Even _they_ couldn't fake it?

KT's gonna be crying to beat the band in the morning,

That's pretty standard.

153 William Barnett-Lewis  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 10:41:49pm

re: #152 Gus

That's pretty standard.

True, though I did intend to imply "above and beyond the usual wingnut fantasy".

154 engineer cat  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 10:51:46pm

re: #151 The Ghost of a Flea

Or he could just be a entitled pseudointellectual.

hey - i'm the pseudointellectual around here ya hear

155 William Barnett-Lewis  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 10:52:36pm

Good night all.

156 Mattand  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 10:54:21pm

re: #149 William Barnett-Lewis

Even _they_ couldn't fake it?

KT's gonna be crying to beat the band in the morning,

re: #152 Gus

It'll be hard to beat his "Birtherism is not racism based" thesis a few threads back.

157 Gus  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 10:59:21pm

re: #156 Mattand

re: #152 Gus

It'll be hard to beat his "Birtherism is not racism based" thesis a few threads back.

Who that?

158 Mattand  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 11:01:41pm

re: #157 Gus

Who that?

KT

159 Gus  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 11:06:02pm

re: #158 Mattand

KT

Oy. Spectrum apply to these things. Racism is a subset of birtherism. Therefore one can't say with true confidence that birtherism does not include racism. That would be inconclusive and illogical.

160 Gus  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 11:07:07pm

Some people will spread birtherism knowing full well it's bullshit. They just use it as a tool.

161 Gus  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 11:07:21pm

People are weird.

162 freetoken  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 11:16:29pm

Not US political convention music:

Tchaikovsky's The Seasons "October", arranged for orchestra:

MP3 Audio
164 Gus  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 11:19:05pm

You caught up Steel! ;)

165 Gus  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 11:20:34pm

I stopped hash tagging to conservative tags. That's kind of like trolling.

166 SteelGHAZI  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 11:21:59pm

re: #164 Gus

You caught up Steel! ;)

It's been a rougher couple of weeks than I'd like to admit.
The RNC's bouts of epic failure are a great capstone to it. Both hilariously and depressingly.

167 Gus  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 11:23:48pm

re: #166 Artist

It's been a rougher couple of weeks than I'd like to admit.
The RNC's bouts of epic failure are a great capstone to it. Both hilariously and depressingly.

It's both. Sometimes funny. Sometimes terribly depressing. Mostly because it's a lot like a religious party.

168 Gus  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 11:25:30pm

So has Ann Romney compared herself to Martin Luther King yet?

169 Gus  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 11:29:48pm

Susan Rice proved me wrong. She's been a great United States Ambassador to the United Nations. Gobsmacked.

170 Gus  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 11:45:40pm
171 Gus  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 11:45:51pm

Ink is still wet.

172 Gus  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 11:48:26pm

Watching this.

Youtube Video
173 engineer cat  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 11:51:52pm

enlightened self interest

ayn rand took adam smith's invisible hand and whacked off with it

174 engineer cat  Wed, Aug 29, 2012 11:53:28pm

re: #160 Gus

Some people will spread birtherism knowing full well it's bullshit. They just use it as a tool.

and they can find so many of these tools all gathered together this week in tampa

175 freetoken  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 12:27:02am

Not well known (new to me anyway) Russian poet Nikolay Ogarev had some lyrics set to music by the head of the State Choir of the USSR, Alexander Sveshnikov, and it turned out pretty well I think:

MP3 Audio
176 researchok  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 12:31:29am

Morning, all

177 researchok  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 12:38:59am

re: #175 freetoken

Not well known (new to me anyway) Russian poet Nikolay Ogarev had some lyrics set to music by the head of the State Choir of the USSR, Alexander Sveshnikov, and it turned out pretty well I think:

[Embedded content]

Turned out very well.

Great restraint, nunace, etc.

Really good selection

178 engineer cat  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 12:44:35am

A Republican source familiar with Ryan's speech told CNN it will "deconstruct" the Obama agenda, with particular focus on the fiscal issues that are the congressman's strength, such as the national debt, stimulus spending and his proposed Medicare reforms, which have come under attack by Obama and Democrats. According to the source, Ryan wants to be an attack dog in

"You will get plenty of substance any time Paul Ryan speaks," Sen. Marco Rubio of Florida told reporters.

sort of a brown, smelly substance

179 AK-47%  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 12:45:07am

re: #156 Mattand

re: #152 Gus

It'll be hard to beat his "Birtherism is not racism based" thesis a few threads back.

I don't see the two as equivalenct, birtherism just stems from the same wellspring of ignorance, denial and bigotry that produces racism.

180 AK-47%  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 12:46:03am

re: #160 Gus

Some people will spread birtherismthe entire GOP platform knowing full well it's bullshit. They just use it as a tool.

FTFY

181 simoom  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 12:56:14am

CNN finally aired a brief segment on the "this is how we feed animals" nut throwing incident. Here's the video:

Youtube Video

I hope CNN remembers their reticence to jump on a racially-charged story and their great care to not engage in guilt-by-association smearing here, when in the future they're getting massive pressure from the Right to cover the next Ashley Todd-like incident as the election nears. The Todd hoax got lots of coverage and political analysis in the day or so before it was debunked, and was particularly egregious considering the only connection to Obama in the fake story was skin color.

182 Gus  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 12:58:23am

re: #180 Expand Your Ground

FTFY

I'll stick with a spectrum.

183 Gus  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 1:00:24am

Out.

184 simoom  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 1:26:22am

re: #181 simoom

Oops, I don't mean to imply this is at all similar to the Todd hoax, just using the Todd-incident to demonstrate that the media typically has no qualms about immediately jumping all over racially-charged whole-party-guilt-by-association outrage stories. Obviously in this case they have multiple witnesses, the RNC's confirmation, their own camerawoman's account, etc.

Donna Brazille's comment suggests a reasonable follow-up though -- did the RNC revoke the credentials of these attendees or just ask them to exit the venue. I also think if not their identities, at least whether or not they are delegates should be revealed.

185 Mentis Fugit  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 1:47:53am

Actually related to the post - unheard of this far down the comments, I know - this little ditty about John Lee Hooker:

Youtube Video

And anent Dr. Feelgood, if fans of Game of Thrones think that their original guitarist looks vaguely familiar, say here

Youtube Video

then they're dead right.
186 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 2:59:20am

Morning Honcos.

187 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 3:39:50am

NYC Public Schools Change ‘Discipline Code’ To Ease Penalties For Smoking, Cursing, Cutting Class
[Link: newyork.cbslocal.com...]

No word on what will happen if they show up with a 32 ounce soda.
///

188 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 4:23:17am

re: #111 Targetpractice

No no, "managed bankruptcy." You know, one that was supposed to happen in the total absence of outside help because the government's money is bad and everybody else was content to sit back and see which of the Big Three filed for Chap 7 first.

"Managed bankruptcy" is the Bain business plan. Take over a struggling business, let go of the work force, sell off the assets, pocket what's left over. Profits!1!

189 AK-47%  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 4:26:03am

re: #188 Learned Mother of Zion

"Managed bankruptcy" is the Bain business plan. Take over a struggling business, let go of the work force, sell off the assets, pocket what's left over. Profits!1!

That is a business model that functions as long as there are companies left to break up and sell off.

Just like selling off the family silverware is a good source of income - up to a point.

190 Decatur Deb  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 4:35:53am

re: #184 simoom

Oops, I don't mean to imply this is at all similar to the Todd hoax, just using the Todd-incident to demonstrate that the media typically has no qualms about immediately jumping all over racially-charged whole-party-guilt-by-association outrage stories. Obviously in this case they have multiple witnesses, the RNC's confirmation, their own camerawoman's account, etc.

Donna Brazille's comment suggests a reasonable follow-up though -- did the RNC revoke the credentials of these attendees or just ask them to exit the venue. I also think if not their identities, at least whether or not they are delegates should be revealed.

Until these overt Republican racists are identified and disowned, I'll just work on the premise that it's all of them.

191 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 4:36:11am

re: #189 Expand Your Ground

That is a business modelthat functions - as long as there are companies left to brak up and sell off.

Just like selling off the family silverware is a good source of income - up to a point.

Problem is, it's a job destruction plan.

192 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 4:50:57am

re: #97 Gus

So Paul Ryan is using the Janesville GM plant example as reason to point out Obama's failed promises yet it was Obama that spearheaded the salvation of GM and prevented further plant closures.

Got it.

193 Obdicut  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 4:55:28am

re: #187 Cannadian Club Akbar

Suspension has always been the stupidest idea for punishment of students ever.

You take a kid who's acting like he doesn't want to be in class, and you eject him from the class. Great. That'll help.

The only possible benefit is making it easier for other kids to learn without the disruption, but that's definitely the booby prize, and just gives up on actually reforming the troublemaker.

194 Decatur Deb  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 4:56:27am

re: #192 Learned Mother of Zion

[Embedded content]

You underestimate the subtlety of the rwnj mind. Any upturn in the economy between now and Nov is the product of the anticipation of Obama's obvious ouster on the part of the Job Creators. Thus it was not hard for the Job Owners in Janesville to forsee McCain's coming defeat and pre-emptively close.

195 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 4:56:33am

re: #193 Obdicut

Suspension has always been the stupidest idea for punishment of students ever.

You take a kid who's acting like he doesn't want to be in class, and you eject him from the class. Great. That'll help.

The only possible benefit is making it easier for other kids to learn without the disruption, but that's definitely the booby prize, and just gives up on actually reforming the troublemaker.

Ever heard of in-skool suspension?

196 Decatur Deb  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 4:58:51am

re: #193 Obdicut

Suspension has always been the stupidest idea for punishment of students ever.

You take a kid who's acting like he doesn't want to be in class, and you eject him from the class. Great. That'll help.

The only possible benefit is making it easier for other kids to learn without the disruption, but that's definitely the booby prize, and just gives up on actually reforming the troublemaker.

Our system has an 'alternative school' for suspendees. Not so ironically, it's one of the surviving black school buildings from before integration.

197 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 5:00:17am
198 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 5:00:49am

re: #196 Decatur Deb

Our system has an 'alternative school' for suspendees. Not so ironically, it's one of the surviving black school buildings from before integration.

We had a couple reform skools in FLA where I lived. Not only did the brats do regular studies, they could also take classes that teach job skills.

199 Decatur Deb  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 5:02:13am

re: #198 Cannadian Club Akbar

We had a couple reform skools in FLA where I lived. Not only did the brats do regular studies, they could also take classes that teach job skills.

The kids are only sent to this one for a few days/weeks. Sort of like a 'living museum' experience.

200 Decatur Deb  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 5:07:17am

BBIAB.

201 Obdicut  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 5:13:24am

re: #195 Cannadian Club Akbar

Ever heard of in-skool suspension?

Yeah, but they're still not in class, still not actually getting educated. It just doesn't work as a solution.

202 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 5:16:10am

re: #201 Obdicut

Yeah, but they're still not in class, still not actually getting educated. It just doesn't work as a solution.

Where I went to skool, you did your work. It wasn't a place to just hang out for the day. The teacher (monitor) got your assignments and you turned them in. No talking, no sleeping.

203 Obdicut  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 5:18:44am

re: #196 Decatur Deb

Our system has an 'alternative school' for suspendees. Not so ironically, it's one of the surviving black school buildings from before integration.

The major problem is the division between parents and teachers. The amount of discipline, reward, punishment, and what have you that can be delivered in school is never enough; you need parents to be engaged too, for most students. But parents are unreliable, and many troublemaking kids have bad shit going on at home.

I sometimes think we ought to split up classes not based on personal achievement or intelligence or anything but just based on parental involvement and acuity. Have one class for the kids whose parents will support them, help them study, listen to what the teacher tells them, extend the schoolroom discipline to the home, etc. Then have another class for the general morass of inconsistent parents who sometimes are all about schoolwork and sometimes forget, who have a lot of half-baked ideas about how to educate kids, who are fickle in their discipline.

Then have another class for the kids whose parents are fine but absent, be they a single mom working two jobs and too tired to help with the homework, a couple of jetsetters always heading off for Aruba, or what have you.

Then have a final class for the parents who are shitheels, domineering freaks or punishing assholes, drunky drunks or in-and-out-of-jailers. That's the class of kids who, unless the school system engages with them and helps them out, are most likely to fall through the cracks, to fail to thrive, to turn to less-than-productive careers.

204 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 5:24:24am

Little Girl's Rules for Stuffed Animals in Isaac: 'No Partys'
[Link: weather.aol.com...]
Nice!!

205 AK-47%  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 5:26:03am

re: #204 Cannadian Club Akbar

Little Girl's Rules for Stuffed Animals in Isaac: 'No Partys'
[Link: weather.aol.com...]
Nice!!

This is a brave little kid facing a major, unfamiliar threat in an inspiring manner.

206 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 5:26:57am

re: #205 Expand Your Ground

This is a brave little kid facing a major, unfamiliar threat in an inspiring manner.

She's smarter than most adults who actually have hurricane parties.

207 Decatur Deb  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 5:33:09am

re: #203 Obdicut

The major problem is the division between parents and teachers. The amount of discipline, reward, punishment, and what have you that can be delivered in school is never enough; you need parents to be engaged too, for most students. But parents are unreliable, and many troublemaking kids have bad shit going on at home.

I sometimes think we ought to split up classes not based on personal achievement or intelligence or anything but just based on parental involvement and acuity. Have one class for the kids whose parents will support them, help them study, listen to what the teacher tells them, extend the schoolroom discipline to the home, etc. Then have another class for the general morass of inconsistent parents who sometimes are all about schoolwork and sometimes forget, who have a lot of half-baked ideas about how to educate kids, who are fickle in their discipline.

Then have another class for the kids whose parents are fine but absent, be they a single mom working two jobs and too tired to help with the homework, a couple of jetsetters always heading off for Aruba, or what have you.

Then have a final class for the parents who are shitheels, domineering freaks or punishing assholes, drunky drunks or in-and-out-of-jailers. That's the class of kids who, unless the school system engages with them and helps them out, are most likely to fall through the cracks, to fail to thrive, to turn to less-than-productive careers.

Sister Marita, our principal: "No home training. We can't do a thing if there's no home training."

In her case, she did the home training if it wasn't too late--our teacher/nun/housemothers had us 24/7.

208 AK-47%  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 5:40:48am

re: #203 Obdicut

The German school system is pretty much set up like that: the Gymnasium is for children of educated parents who are actively involved, the Realschule for working-class kids or kids whose parents lack the time or motivation to work much with their kids and the Hauptschule for the social problems and the undereducated classes (including most of the immigrant children).

Only problem is that the system is not very porous, once you are tracked for one of these schools (which happens after the fourth garade) you are pretty much stuck in them for the rest of your school career.

And it is bad enough that we segregate students into classes by age, but this adds an additional separation by class origins, and studies have proven that in Germany students' educational success depends heavily on their parents' education and social background.

209 Decatur Deb  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 5:44:57am

re: #208 Expand Your Ground

The German school system is pretty much set up like that: the Gymnasium is for children of educated parents who are actively involved, the Realschule for working-class kids whose parents or those without the time or motivation to work much with their kids and the Hauptschule for the social problems and the undereducated classes (including most of the immigrant children).

Only problem is that the system is not very porous, once you are tracked for one of these schools (which happens after the fourth garade) you are pretty much stuck in them for the rest of your school career.

And it is bad enough that we segregate students into classes by age, but this adds an additional separation by class origins, and studies have proven that in Germany students' educational success depends heavily on their parents' education and social background.

Italy plays it much the same, although less rigidly, with the breakpoint at the end of middle school. Their system also heavily subsidizes higher education tuition, directly proportional to the student's performance. If you want to get 'C's, your parents better be rich.

210 A Mom Anon  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 5:45:42am

re: #202 Cannadian Club Akbar

You do have to do work,but for a kid who gets into trouble often,ISS is not a big deal and has little effect.

Part of the problem here is that there aren't support staff in schools anymore. You're hard pressed to find a school nurse in a lot of places today. You will however find a school police officer far more often. And the Guidance Office isn't for troubled kids who need help anymore,it's only for kids who are headed to college-to help families through the maze of paper and process involved in the college application process.There are few mental health professionals in most school systems these days. We can bitch about uninvolved or uncaring parents all day long,but the fact is,those parents will always exist and something needs to be in place for those kids in those families. Yes,it costs money,but schools are an investment in the nation's future. Not all investing should be about direct cash return,there is human capital too. Happy,educated,cared for and about kids become productive citizens,that's the payoff.

211 Obdicut  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 5:51:06am

re: #208 Expand Your Ground

Yeah, my idea is immensely tricky, but i would note that I'm not trying to break it down along class lines. A lot of my brother Mike's first-generation immigrant parents are some of the most supportive and best for their kids, a lot of the whitebread middle-class types are the most fickle and unsupportive.

Of course, making the judgement about the parents is a really freaking difficult thing to do.

212 A Mom Anon  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 5:53:37am

re: #208 Expand Your Ground

We sort of do some of that here though. All it takes is for one person in the system to label a kid "not college material"and that kid will often be discouraged from even trying for college. Which would be fine if there was a push for tech or trade school instead. Often there isn't. I'm not sure what the answer is,but we could start by putting the option for skilled trade classes back into high schools. It's nearly extinct because it "costs too much".Meanwhile those jobs are not being filled quickly enough and we need people to do them.

If a kid's family doesn't care about their education,doesn't matter where they're from,their ethnic backround, family income, etc. That kid has a much bigger mountain to climb than the one with parents who value education and have realistic standards for their kid.

213 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 5:56:06am

Twitches double down on Teh Stupid

214 Decatur Deb  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 5:57:24am

re: #212 A Mom Anon

We sort of do some of that here though. All it takes is for one person in the system to label a kid "not college material"and that kid will often be discouraged from even trying for college. Which would be fine if there was a push for tech or trade school instead. Often there isn't. I'm not sure what the answer is,but we could start by putting the option for skilled trade classes back into high schools. It's nearly extinct because it "costs too much".Meanwhile those jobs are not being filled quickly enough and we need people to do them.

If a kid's family doesn't care about their education,doesn't matter where they're from,their ethnic backround, family income, etc. That kid has a much bigger mountain to climb than the one with parents who value education and have realistic standards for their kid.

Our town still does a Vo-Tech track, a completely separate system at the HS level. Works for a lot of kids, but runs the risk of training them for work that might not be around by the time they graduate.

215 AK-47%  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 5:58:10am

re: #214 Decatur Deb

Our town still does a Vo-Tech track, a completely separate system as the HS level. Works for a lot of kids, but runs the risk of training them for work that might not be around by the time they graduate.

Or by the time they retire.

216 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 6:01:49am

re: #214 Decatur Deb

Our town still does a Vo-Tech track, a completely separate system at the HS level. Works for a lot of kids, but runs the risk of training them for work that might not be around by the time they graduate.

The training offered where I lived was plumbing, welding, mechanics, culinary (which is a joke). When I was younger someone told me "learn to work at retirement homes or become a garbage man. 'Cause there will always be old people and there will always be garbage". Heh.

217 AK-47%  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 6:02:14am

re: #213 Learned Mother of Zion

Janesville plant closed 12/23/2008

Yes, but Obama had already been elected, so there!

218 Decatur Deb  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 6:07:45am

re: #216 Cannadian Club Akbar

The training offered where I lived was plumbing, welding, mechanics, culinary (which is a joke). When I was younger someone told me "learn to work at retirement homes or become a garbage man. 'Cause there will always be old people and there will always be garbage". Heh.

Ours has that menu, with emphasis on auto repair and food service. (Its cafeteria is a popular lunch place for people who work in that part of town.) We are seeing some push towards para-medical because your guy was right--we are looking at a bunch of old people. Now if there were only some way to pay for their medical care...

219 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 6:36:20am

Good morning lizards!

220 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 6:44:04am

RWNJ's prove they can not read

GM did not announce closing of the Janesville plant in the linked press release.

221 Shropshire_Slasher  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 6:44:49am

re: #208 Expand Your Ground

I understand the fairness aspect, however, do we want to teach all the kids at the same rate? Some kids (and adults) love a challenge and learning, some do not. I don't believe in dumb kids, everyone is different in how they learn. Unfortunately in my small town we are doing away with advanced course material, can't afford the teachers.

222 Lidane  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 6:46:56am

re: #214 Decatur Deb

Our town still does a Vo-Tech track, a completely separate system at the HS level. Works for a lot of kids, but runs the risk of training them for work that might not be around by the time they graduate.

My high school had that. I don't know what they offer now, but back when I was in school they had stuff like plumbing, HVAC, auto mechanics, woodworking, cosmetology, and welding.

223 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 6:56:15am

UC rejects anti-Semitism resolution

The University of California says it won't support a resolution condemning anti-Semitism on campus - approved unanimously by the state Assembly on Tuesday - because the resolution says "no public resources will be allowed to be used for any anti-Semitic or any intolerant agitation."

"We think it's problematic because of First Amendment concerns," said Steve Montiel, a UC spokesman.

The nonbinding resolution, says, in effect, that UC and other public universities should ban activity that could be interpreted as intolerant or anti-Semitic, including certain demonstrations, from taking place anywhere on its property.

224 Lidane  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 6:57:50am

re: #195 Cannadian Club Akbar

Ever heard of in-skool suspension?

I got one of those once for not serving some detention that I'd received for being late to school. It was basically a day-long study hall. It got me ahead of the game in two classes because I did some assignments that were coming up due, and I read ahead in another.

225 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 6:59:50am

LOL

226 lawhawk  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 7:00:34am

re: #220 Learned Mother of Zion

There's quite a bit of baffling BS about the shutdown of the Janesville Plant.

GM announced the plant's shutdown in 2008, while President Bush was in office. It was finally closed in 2009.

UPDATE: Friday, June 20, 2008 --- 8:10 a.m.

JANESVILLE, Wis. (AP) -- General Motors Corp. has informed the state it plans to lay off an additional 96 workers from its Janesville assembly plant by mid-September.

The layoffs announced Thursday are in addition to the 756 workers who'll be let go next month. That's when the factory that makes trucks and other sport utility vehicles will scale back its production shifts from two to one.

In a filing with the state, GM says the latest layoffs will occur in late August or early September.

The auto maker also said Thursday that more than 18,000 employees across the nation have accepted buyout and early retirement offers. That includes 574 workers from the Janesville.

GM will close the plant by 2010 as it changes its focus from larger vehicles to more fuel-efficient ones.

(Copyright 2008 by The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved.)

It's misleading to blame the closure on President Obama, when GM indicated its closure before the President took office.

The sad fact is that everyone across political lines knew that GM was far too bloated and had so much excess capacity that it had to shut down factories. Problem for politicians was that they didn't want the shutdowns in their districts, so they'll complain how the government shutdown the factories in their district, even though it meant that GM (or Chrysler) could emerge from bankruptcy reorganization as a leaner and more effective company that would have a chance of returning to profitability.

Moreover, GOPers, including Paul Ryan, called on the feds and GM to reconsider the closure, and to apply for federal funds to keep the plant open.

The Republican met with company executives to try to change their minds. He lobbied the Obama administration for federal retraining and economic-development funds.

He even broke with his party -- and his future presidential running mate Mitt Romney -- to vote in Congress for a $15 billion federal bailout for GM and Chrysler as they teetered on the edge of insolvency.

Criticized by President Barack Obama this week as the "ideological leader" of cost-slashing Republicans in Congress, Ryan has veered from his budget-hawk stance at crucial times.

Along with the auto bailout vote, Ryan voted for the Troubled Asset Relief Program, the $700 billion bank bailout that is anathema to Tea Party conservatives. He opposed Obama's 2009 stimulus effort, but his office sought to secure funding once it was signed into law.

Supporters say Ryan's actions during the auto bailout reveal a practical streak that will bode well for him if the Romney-Ryan ticket gets elected, as well as a willingness to take an unpopular stand if he thinks it is needed.

Call it pragmatism or porkbarrel politics. He wanted federal funds when it suited him all while deriding the same when it went to others.

227 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 7:01:07am

re: #223 NJDhockeyfan

another story from your link:
Heavy drinkers found to exercise more
[Link: www.sfgate.com...]

Heh.

228 Lidane  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 7:02:46am

re: #225 Learned Mother of Zion

LOL

[Embedded content]

Kill the wabbit!

229 lawhawk  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 7:04:28am

Meanwhile, the body count keeps rising in the Syrian civil war as multiple reports indicate that Assad's committed still more war crimes and crimes against humanity. Assad's air force carried out multiple airstrikes against civilian populations queued up for bread in Aleppo, killing dozens in the process.

At the same time, Egypt's new president Morsi condemned Assad and Syria while attending the Meeting of Nonaligned Nations in Tehran. He questioned Iran's support for the murderous regime in Damascus on Iran's home turf. While that can be framed as another chapter in the millennial Sunni-Shi'a conflict, it also represents a clear distinction between Iran and the rest of the world. Syria's increasingly isolated, and neighboring countries aren't going to put up with Iran's interference and support for Assad.

230 lawhawk  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 7:07:30am

Look who's being petty - Donald Trump jacks up prices of an apartment to keep Arianna Huffington from renting.

231 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 7:07:48am

Still beating a dead horse...

Protesters try to arrest Condi Rice

TAMPA, Fla. (AP) — Police in Tampa stopped a dozen anti-war protesters from entering an event attended by former Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice after the group said it intended to arrest her for war crimes.

The protesters from Code Pink carried handcuffs Tuesday and tried to enter a performing arts center. Rice was attending an event in conjunction with the Republican National Convention. They said they wanted to make a citizen’s arrest of Rice. She was George W. Bush’s National Security Adviser when the Iraq War started in 2003.

Officers told protesters to leave because they were on private property. They went back to the sidewalk and several lay down under sheets made to look like they were blood-splattered.

The group says it will try to arrest other members of the George W. Bush administration.

232 Cannadian Club Akbar  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 7:07:59am

Man charged with murder after allegedly strangling girlfriend during sex
[Link: www.tampabay.com...]

233 Interesting Times in Benghazi  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 7:08:52am
234 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 7:13:11am

re: #233 Interesting Times

And 10 lbs of it in a 5 lb bag.

235 Killgore Trout  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 7:16:53am

Hot Air and Town Hall are very upset with the fact checkers this morning. Heh.

236 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 7:18:19am

re: #235 Killgore Trout

Hot Air and Town Hall are very upset with the fact checkers this morning. Heh.

Anyone interested in the intersection of truth and politics should be upset this morning.

237 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 7:18:50am

Last week the Taliban chopped off 17 Afghan heads for dancing in the street and now 7 Pakistani soldiers faced the same thing.

Pakistani Taliban 'chopped off the heads' of 7 Pakistani soldiers in South Waziristan

The Movement of the Taliban in Pakistan claimed to have "chopped off the heads" of seven Pakistani soldiers after attacking a military outpost in South Waziristan. In all, the Taliban claimed to have killed 20 Pakistani soldiers during the attack.

The claim was made yesterday by Ishanullah Ihsan, the spokesman for the al Qaeda-linked Movement of the Taliban in Pakistan, in an email sent to The Long War Journal.

Ihsan said that 20 Pakistani troops were killed after the Taliban attacked their camp in Badar, and that 29 assault rifles, three RPGs, a machinegun, a sniper rifle, a submachine gun, and "thousands of cartridges and many small military equipments" were seized during the raid. Ihsan said seven of the soldiers were beheaded in accordance with sharia, or Islamic Law.

"Mujahideen also chopped off the heads of 7 captured soldiers as Shariah directs them to do with enemies of Islam," Ihsan said.

In the past, the Taliban previously released videos of the execution and beheading of Pakistani troops. On June 28, a video showing the heads of 17 Pakistani soldiers who had served in the district of Dir was released by the Taliban.

238 Killgore Trout  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 7:26:50am

re: #223 NJDhockeyfan

UC rejects anti-Semitism resolution

CAIR is upset too. It's a tricky issue but I think a large part of the problem is that California Universities seem to be focusing on political/social activism rather than scholarly research and academic achievement. It sounds like the problem is out of control.

239 Mattand  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 7:31:02am

re: #236 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

Anyone interested in the intersection of truth and politics should be upset this morning.

Ain't that the truth. I just got down reading at TPM that Ari Fleischer is pushing the "auto plant in WI closed under Obama" lie.

This is officially out-of-control. I don't care how much you hate Obama; if you have to lie to defeat him, you literally have nothing to run on.

Given the intellectual curiosity of both the American voter and the MSM, this is a huge problem.

240 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 7:31:15am

re: #238 Killgore Trout

CAIR is upset too. It's a tricky issue but I think a large part of the problem is that California Universities seem to be focusing on political/social activism rather than scholarly research and academic achievement. It sounds like the problem is out of control.

With the history of anti-semitism at UC it's not a surprise they voted against that resolution.

241 Lidane  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 7:33:57am
242 AK-47%  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 7:35:40am

re: #241 Lidane

Preparing for the worst: Presidential speech if Armstrong and Aldrin hadn’t returned from the moon

I remember reading that Eisenhower had a similar speech prepared for the event that the D-Day invasion failed.

243 darthstar  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 7:37:36am

Mornin' everyone...missed the speeches last night. I see Ryan 'hit it out of the park' of honesty. Even Fox News called him a fucking liar.

244 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 7:38:08am

re: #242 Expand Your Ground

I remember reading that Eisenhower had a similar speech prepared for the event that the D-Day invasion failed.

Leaders taking responsibility for failed enterprises rather than going down hiding out or running while claiming that the people had failed them.

245 HappyBenghazi  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 7:39:38am

Went to bed early last night. So it sounds like Ryan's speech was filled with bs huh.

246 lawhawk  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 7:41:46am

re: #243 darthstar

Heh.

Deceiving
On the other hand, to anyone paying the slightest bit of attention to facts, Ryan’s speech was an apparent attempt to set the world record for the greatest number of blatant lies and misrepresentations slipped into a single political speech. On this measure, while it was Romney who ran the Olympics, Ryan earned the gold.


Read more: [Link: www.foxnews.com...]

The other 2 words? Dazzling and distracting.

In other words, when you can't make your case on the facts, baffle with BS.

247 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 7:42:51am

Someone is in deep doo doo...

Secret Service agent leaves gun on Romney's plane

TAMPA, Fla. — A Secret Service agent left a gun in the bathroom of a plane carrying Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney.

A reporter discovered the gun while the plane was flying from Florida to Indiana on Wednesday. It was quickly retrieved by a Secret Service agent. The weapon belonged to an agent assigned to Romney's security detail.

In Washington, Secret Service spokesman Edwin Donovan says the agency is aware of the incident and that the matter will be handled internally. He would not discuss who left the gun or how it was misplaced.

248 blueraven  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 7:46:56am

re: #246 lawhawk

Heh.

The other 2 words? Dazzling and distracting.

In other words, when you can't make your case on the facts, baffle with BS.

Got to hand it to Fox news on this one. This reporter slammed Ryan

Elections should be about competing based on your record in the past and your vision for the future, not competing to see who can get away with the most lies and distortions without voters noticing or bother to care. Both parties should hold themselves to that standard. Republicans should be ashamed that there was even one misrepresentation in Ryan’s speech but sadly, there were many.

Read more: [Link: www.foxnews.com...]

249 Lidane  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 7:48:21am
250 HappyBenghazi  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 7:48:31am

If Ryan's getting slammed on his handling of the facts from an outlet usually friendly to him and his party. Then he's really going to get it from the networks that undecided voters may be watching I imagine. Knew he had been lying about the Janesville plant for some time but other things. Anyhow, Mitt's speech should be interesting tonight and I'm still interested to see who they have in mind for their "mystery speaker."

251 darthstar  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 7:49:30am

re: #248 blueraven

Got to hand it to Fox news on this one. This reporter slammed Ryan

Read more: [Link: www.foxnews.com...]

Okay, so she was asked by Fox to write the liberal response...good on Fox for doing this. The end result is a lot of Fox readers are getting a face full of 'holy shit our candidate's a liar' this morning. But Sally don't mind.

[Link: sallykohn.com...]

252 HappyBenghazi  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 7:49:54am

re: #249 Lidane

[Embedded content]

"They're in a mania. They think America is ready for a grand reconfiguration of its social insurance system. It's like they're in the middle of their own housing bubble, and they're talking only to themselves."
Money quote.

253 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 7:51:14am

I have a feeling the Secret Service will be knocking in this shithead's door.

254 HappyBenghazi  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 7:52:40am

re: #253 NJDhockeyfan

I have a feeling the Secret Service will be knocking in this shithead's door.

[Embedded content]

Yet another moron who thinks his tweets aren't public.

255 darthstar  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 7:52:47am
256 Lidane  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 7:53:41am
257 Lidane  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 7:54:55am

Ugh. The only coffee available to me is some sort of half-caffeine variety. This is so wrong on so many levels I can't begin to count them all.

What's the point of drinking coffee if you're not going to get a buzz from it?

258 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 7:56:33am

re: #257 Lidane

Ugh. The only coffee available to me is some sort of half-caffeine variety. This is so wrong on so many levels I can't begin to count them all.

What's the point of drinking coffee if you're not going to get a buzz from it?

Where are you?

What happened with that job interview?

259 Killgore Trout  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 7:58:22am

re: #253 NJDhockeyfan

I have a feeling the Secret Service will be knocking in this shithead's door.

[Embedded content]

...and not even enough common sense to delete the tweet when he sobers up. Moron.

260 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 7:58:48am

Freaking moran jubilates over outright lies as "a bulls eye"

261 HappyBenghazi  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 8:00:03am

re: #260 Learned Mother of Zion

Freaking moran jubilates over outright lies as "a hit"

[Embedded content]

People like him said the same about Palin in 2008. Same bullshit spin, different year.

262 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 8:01:09am

Delusional partisanship is a lot like fanaticism. And the religious nuts *like* fanatics - at least the ones that are fanatics for their particular brand.

263 wrenchwench  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 8:02:39am
I said honey, you all equally fine under the law

My favorite line on the whole album.

264 Lidane  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 8:03:28am

re: #258 Learned Mother of Zion

Where are you?

Visiting some friends. All they have for coffee is half-caff and I'm dying. It's very weak.

What happened with that job interview?

Second interview was last Friday and went like gangbusters. I had a great conversation with the COO of the company. My boyfriend actually came over to where I was sitting halfway through my interview because he heard me laughing about something. He thought my interview had been short and that I was on the phone with a friend or something.

I'm supposed to have a third and final interview in the office here in Austin with the other people I'd work with and with either the COO or the regional sales director flying in from California to meet me, but I don't know the details yet. I wrote the regional director yesterday. Hopefully I hear back today.

I've also got what I'm calling a backup interview with a bank this Friday. It would be for a financial advisor position that would have me in paid training for almost a year, so if nothing else I'd have that to fall back on if this other position falls through.

265 Daniel Ballard  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 8:03:43am

I just had a bit of a shock looking at some polls on women and voting.

When I saw this I dug into the links. Abortion/reproductive rights get ranked way down in the priorities. At home Donna has women's rights at the top of her list, but that seems uncommon.

So my question is this-Will the 11th century GOP platform skate by this November on this apathy?

[Link: www.people-press.org...]

[Link: www.gallup.com...]

Image: Chart.gif

266 Lidane  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 8:06:52am
267 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 8:09:11am

re: #265 Daniel Ballard

I just had a bit of a shock looking at some polls on women and voting.

When I saw this I dug into the links. Abortion/reproductive rights get ranked way down in the priorities. At home Donna has women's rights at the top of her list, but that seems uncommon.

So my question is this-Will the 11th century GOP platform skate by this November on this apathy?

[Link: www.people-press.org...]

[Link: www.gallup.com...]

Image: Chart.gif

I wonder in part if there is a sort of underlying "other women get abortions" denial thing going on. I've seen issues with young men (fraternity) and safety mitigation issues in a vein of "accidents due to sloppy procedures happen to other people".

268 erik_t  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 8:09:36am

So I skipped the hell out of last night's convention bullshit.

I assume I missed nothing but race-baiting and lies?

269 HappyBenghazi  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 8:09:49am

re: #266 Lidane

[Embedded content]

And they accuse the left of being hateful. That woman can't even give a reason why she hates the Obamas though I think the reason is pretty apparent from the "look" quote.

270 HappyBenghazi  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 8:10:22am

re: #268 erik_t

So I skipped the hell out of last night's convention bullshit.

I assume I missed nothing but race-baiting and lies?

Sounds that way, I missed it too.

272 erik_t  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 8:10:56am

re: #270 HappyWarrior

Sounds that way, I missed it too.

Well, let me backtrack. I wouldn't say I missed it...

273 Gus  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 8:11:14am

re: #271 Gus

Voters on why blacks pick Democrats

Image: w-poll830.jpg

Republicans: like the lyrics in that Johnny Rebel song.

274 Decatur Deb  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 8:11:36am

re: #268 erik_t

So I skipped the hell out of last night's convention bullshit.

I assume I missed nothing but race-baiting and lies?

Nope. You've jumbled their schedule. Tuesday was race-baiting. Last night was lies and excuses.

275 Mattand  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 8:11:51am

re: #266 Lidane

Republican woman tells NPR: "It's about time we get a First Lady who looks like a First Lady." youtu.be/TXOa6-hewAA (h/t @CharlesMBlow)

Can't wait for all of the mental gymnastics from the rocket scientists who will insist that there's no racism in that statement.

Swear to God, this country gets worse with this bullshit. Every. Fucking. Year.

276 Gus  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 8:11:58am

re: #271 Gus

Voters on why blacks pick Democrats

Image: w-poll830.jpg

277 Gus  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 8:12:19am

I might be repeating things here. ;)

278 HappyBenghazi  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 8:13:25am

re: #271 Gus

Voters on why blacks pick Democrats

Image: w-poll830.jpg

Why am I not shocked that a large amount of Republicans think blacks vote Democratic because of welfare? Fucking bigoted asses.

279 Lidane  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 8:13:53am
280 HappyBenghazi  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 8:14:15am

re: #275 Mattand

Can't wait for all of the mental gymnastics from the rocket scientists who will insist that there's no racism in that statement.

Swear to God, this country gets worse with this bullshit. Every. Fucking. Year.

Sometimes I feel we've come a long way when I look at and listen to President Obama but other times I'm reminded that we have a long ways to go when I hear crap like this spewed and read the results of the poll Gus linked to.

281 HappyBenghazi  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 8:15:15am

From the party of Lincoln to the party of the Dixiecrats.

282 Lidane  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 8:16:08am

re: #280 HappyWarrior

Sometimes I feel we've come a long way when I look at and listen to President Obama but other times I'm reminded that we have a long ways to go when I hear crap like this spewed and read the results of the poll Gus linked to.

The birther conspiracy is proof that we haven't come as far as we think. No other president has ever had their citizenship and paternity questioned non-stop for their entire time in office. But hey, it's supposedly not rooted in racism or anything. =P

283 AK-47%  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 8:16:51am

re: #260 Learned Mother of Zion

Freaking moran jubilates over outright lies as "a bulls eye"

[Embedded content]

If the bull's eye is painted on your own foot, then yes...

284 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 8:16:56am

re: #278 HappyWarrior

Why am I not shocked that a large amount of Republicans think blacks vote Democratic because of welfare? Fucking bigoted asses.

I just don't understand the reasoning that believes [insert hated minority group] prefers to live on welfare. Do they even know what it's like to live at that level of poverty? No normal person would choose that as a lifestyle.

285 HappyBenghazi  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 8:17:22am

re: #282 Lidane

The birther conspiracy is proof that we haven't come as far as we think. No other president has ever had their citizenship and paternity questioned non-stop for their entire time in office. But hey, it's supposedly not rooted in racism or anything. =P

Not just that but his loyalty and love of country. You have actual surrogates of Romney and sometimes even Mitt himself questions whether President Obama really loves this country. Agh.

287 HappyBenghazi  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 8:18:24am

re: #284 Learned Mother of Zion

I just don't understand the reasoning that believes [insert hated minority group] prefers to live on welfare. Do they even know what it's like to live at that level of poverty? No normal person would choose that as a lifestyle.

No kidding. But it reminds me of the one right wing pundit who called the very poor who pay little taxes "lucky duckies."

288 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 8:19:46am

re: #287 HappyWarrior

No kidding. But it reminds me of the one right wing pundit who called the very poor who pay little taxes "lucky duckies."

Same mentality that thinks poor people could just lift themselves out of poverty by the bootstraps if they just went out and got a job, like at Micky D's or Wal-Mart.

289 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 8:20:29am

Asshole

290 HappyBenghazi  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 8:21:34am

re: #288 Learned Mother of Zion

Same mentality that thinks poor people could just lift themselves out of poverty by the bootstraps if they just went out and got a job, like at Micky D's or Wal-Mart.

Yep.

291 Gus  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 8:21:43am

The Federal Bailout That Saved Mitt Romney
Government documents prove the candidate's mythology is just that

292 Decatur Deb  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 8:21:45am

re: #284 Learned Mother of Zion

I just don't understand the reasoning that believes [insert hated minority group] prefers to live on welfare. Do they even know what it's like to live at that level of poverty? No normal person would choose that as a lifestyle.

Easy. Many of our racist brethern do not think of 'them' as normal. A dwindling number do not think of them as persons.

293 Mattand  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 8:21:52am

re: #280 HappyWarrior

Sometimes I feel we've come a long way when I look at and listen to President Obama but other times I'm reminded that we have a long ways to go when I hear crap like this spewed and read the results of the poll Gus linked to.

I used to work with a woman who was a teenager in the 60's. She said things were better. The conversation took place in the 90's. I didn't have a point of reference as I was a toddler at the time.

Regarding race relations, apparently Philadelphia, PA was no better than Philadelphia, MS at the time. The only difference was Philly didn't have stuff like separate drinking fountains.

Then I look at shit like the woman on NPR and just wonder how long it's going to take. Hell, look at this board. There are intelligent, literate people here who are now declaring that birtherism no longer has anything to do with racism.

If that kind of thinking takes root in a venue that I consider above the mean in the IQ department, what does that say about the "average" American voter?

294 Gus  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 8:22:22am

re: #289 NJDhockeyfan

[Embedded content]

Asshole

295 AK-47%  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 8:22:23am

re: #282 Lidane

The birther conspiracy is proof that we haven't come as far as we think. No other president has ever had their citizenship and paternity questioned non-stop for their entire time in office. But hey, it's supposedly not rooted in racism or anything. =P

It is not directly racist, but it stems from the same wellspring of bigotry and ignorance.

296 Decatur Deb  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 8:22:32am

re: #289 NJDhockeyfan

[Embedded content]

Asshole

Who the hell is Quinn McGregor?

297 Varek Raith  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 8:23:01am

re: #296 Decatur Deb

Who the hell is Quinn McGregor?

A distraction.

298 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 8:23:49am

re: #292 Decatur Deb

Easy. Many of our racist brethern do not think of 'them' as normal'. A dwindling number do not think of them as persons.

African-Americans are not the only minority about whom the "welfare queens" myth is applied.

299 Obdicut  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 8:24:26am

re: #271 Gus

Voters on why blacks pick Democrats

Image: w-poll830.jpg

Yep. That's racism.

300 lawhawk  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 8:25:18am

Colorado personhood amendment fails to get sufficient signatures to go on November ballot.

The nation's only pending ballot measure to ban abortion in all circumstances has failed to advance to voters in Colorado.

Colorado Secretary of State Scott Gessler announced Wednesday that backers of the divisive "personhood" amendment fell about 3,900 valid signatures short of the some 86,000 needed.

The rejection was a major setback for abortion foes in the home state of Personhood USA, which said the Colorado proposal was the only measure pending for ballots this fall. Other initiatives are aimed for future years but not this fall, Personhood USA spokeswoman Jennifer Mason said Wednesday.

Personhood proposals go farther than other proposed abortion bans because they would give fertilized embryos all the rights of a born human. They would ban embryonic stem-cell research and some fertility treatments.

The measures haven't been backed by other abortion opponents or the Catholic church.

Note that the GOP is pushing these personhood amendments around the nation, but such a move would make IVF all but impossible/illegal.

301 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 8:25:28am

re: #294 Gus

[Embedded content]

302 Decatur Deb  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 8:25:54am

re: #298 Learned Mother of Zion

African-Americans are not the only minority about whom the "welfare queens" myth is applied.

They throw in a little 'po white trash' to season the broth, but it's still a brown broth in the end.

303 Mattand  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 8:26:09am

re: #295 Expand Your Ground

It is not directly racist, but it stems from the same wellspring of bigotry and ignorance.

Not true. If Obama's name were Barry O'Hara and whiter than Ron Howard, we would not be having this conversation. Period.

Trying to insist that the people pushing birtherism don't have a stick up their asses about minorities is willfully ignorant, and diminishes how dangerous that line of thought is.

304 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 8:26:41am

re: #302 Decatur Deb

They throw in a little 'po white trash' to season the broth, but it's still a brown broth in the end.

There are also some Jewish people included in that soup.

305 lawhawk  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 8:27:20am

re: #291 Gus

Your link got kludged.

307 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 8:28:11am

re: #284 Learned Mother of Zion

I just don't understand the reasoning that believes [insert hated minority group] prefers to live on welfare. Do they even know what it's like to live at that level of poverty? No normal person would choose that as a lifestyle.

You're asking for empathy here. Once you go down the road a bit it's all to easy to continue convincing yourself that the "other" is only concerned with leeching off of you, has no morals, etc. No one expects character from a parasite.

308 Varek Raith  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 8:28:18am

The earth just needs to get blown up.
By me.
MUHAHAHA!

309 Decatur Deb  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 8:28:46am

re: #304 Learned Mother of Zion

There are also some Jewish people included in that soup.

Not around here--the Juice are all smart and rich, prospering off their unfair business practices.

310 Gus  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 8:29:15am

re: #305 lawhawk

Your link got kludged.

Thanks. Fixed.

311 lawhawk  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 8:29:38am

re: #286 Gus

Samantha Bee here...

Republican Delegates Believe All Candidates Should Have Right To Choose Abortion Policy For Themselves

This should be paged/promoted by Charles when he wakes up. It shows the tremendous cognitive dissonance among GOPers and how they try to reconcile their notions of personal freedom with a huge carveout for abortion, in which case they want to restrict a woman's right to choose. The ignorance is shown with abundance, but the zealots on the so-con/right wing will continue to pursue those efforts regardless of the facts or logic.

312 Gus  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 8:30:44am

re: #311 lawhawk

This should be paged/promoted by Charles when he wakes up. It shows the tremendous cognitive dissonance among GOPers and how they try to reconcile their notions of personal freedom with a huge carveout for abortion, in which case they want to restrict a woman's right to choose. The ignorance is shown with abundance, but the zealots on the so-con/right wing will continue to pursue those efforts regardless of the facts or logic.

Big time. I'm just shaking me head.

313 Lidane  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 8:31:31am
314 Daniel Ballard  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 8:32:06am

re: #311 lawhawk

And get away with it if some puzzling (to me) polls are correct.

315 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 8:32:30am

re: #300 lawhawk

Colorado personhood amendment fails to get sufficient signatures to go on November ballot.


Note that the GOP is pushing these personhood amendments around the nation, but such a move would make IVF all but impossible/illegal.

But they can lose this and then "compromise" on the massive restrictions and obstacles that the more "moderate" groups want to impose.
/

316 Mattand  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 8:33:11am

re: #307 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

You're asking for empathy here. Once you go down the road a bit it's all to easy to continue convincing yourself that the "other" is only concerned with leeching off of you, has no morals, etc. No one expects character from a parasite.

You're in Philly. Ask a local who is white their opinion about Camden, NJ or, to a lesser degree, Chester, PA. Both are towns with a majority black population that have seen better days.

Just about every other answer you'll get will be along the lines of "They should burn it to the ground and start over." The implication is always that the people who live there are doing so by choice, and are somehow inherently criminal.

Been that way since I was a kid. Don't see it changing anytime soon.

317 erik_t  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 8:34:43am

re: #313 Lidane

I'll drink to that.

/hic

318 Gus  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 8:36:44am

re: #313 Lidane

[Embedded content]

Think Progress used the word "dead" in a sentence containing the name Rick Scott!

Someone alert the Twitchy Team!

[Faints.]

319 Lidane  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 8:37:01am
320 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 8:37:55am

Twitchy team is doubling down on the meme that GM Janesville closed on Obama's watch since they continued to fulfill previously placed orders.

321 Interesting Times in Benghazi  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 8:38:02am

The CNN camerawoman harassed by GOP racists comes forward:

322 erik_t  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 8:39:24am

re: #320 Learned Mother of Zion

Twitchy team is doubling down on the meme that GM Janesville closed on Obama's watch since they continued to fulfill previously placed orders.

Wait, so therefore they'd only decided to close during Bush's administration but just hadn't gotten to around to it before Obama took office?

And this is a sufficient level of honesty and clarity for Republicans?

Really speaks volumes.

323 HappyBenghazi  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 8:40:09am

I thought they were okay with plants closing down. Oh wait, squirrel!

324 Gus  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 8:41:20am

re: #320 Learned Mother of Zion

Twitchy team is doubling down on the meme that GM Janesville closed on Obama's watch since they continued to fulfill previously placed orders.

Hey! I was just reading that. Talk about a load of BS. Their narrative is that "Obama vowed to make things better" based on a plant that closed under Bush. Yet Obama did make things better for GM workers based on an auto bailout that they oppose.

WTF.

325 Decatur Deb  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 8:41:26am

re: #321 Interesting Times

The CNN camerawoman harassed by GOP racists comes forward:

[Embedded content]

The names of the animal feeders will slowly emerge. Once again the RNC/Romney team shows exactly how not to handle a screw-up.

326 Gus  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 8:42:30am

re: #324 Gus

Hey! I was just reading that. Talk about a load of BS. Their narrative is that "Obama vowed to make things better" based on a plant that closed under Bush. Yet Obama did make things better for GM workers based on an auto bailout that they oppose.

WTF.

Link for you masochists.

First link there.

327 HappyBenghazi  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 8:42:32am

re: #324 Gus

Hey! I was just reading that. Talk about a load of BS. Their narrative is that "Obama vowed to make things better" based on a plant that closed under Bush. Yet Obama did make things better for GM workers based on an auto bailout that they oppose.

WTF.

Pretzel logic. What's up is spaghetti and meatballs.

328 Mattand  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 8:42:38am

re: #321 Interesting Times

The CNN camerawoman harassed by GOP racists comes forward:

Carroll said no one took the names of the attendees who threw peanuts at her Tuesday on the convention floor and told her, "This is what we feed animals." She alerted fellow camera operators, producers and CNN security. The head of the delegation — she was not certain of the state — told her the perpetrators must have been alternates, not delegates.

Because no true Republican delegate would ever be a racist mouth breather.

329 Interesting Times in Benghazi  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 8:43:38am
330 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 8:43:43am

re: #316 Mattand

You're in Philly. Ask a local who is white their opinion about Camden, NJ or, to a lesser degree, Chester, PA. Both are towns with a majority black population that have seen better day.

Just about every other answer you'll get will be along the lines of "They should burn it to the ground and start over." The implication is always that the people who live there are doing so by choice, and are somehow inherently criminal.

Been that way since I was a kid. Don't see it changing anytime soon.

It's a thin veneer over a large reservoir of emotional-based distrust and willingness to believe the stereotypes. Same with the various low-income areas in Pittsburgh when I was living there.* Look how long and arduous a process it was to get equal protection into the laws themselves, much less the underlying behavior sets. And there was footdragging and lots of hateful rhetoric spewed out the whole way.

* - Can't say much about where I grew up in comparison. Lily-white mostly rural area of northern New York State from age 9 through high school in a village/town with some industry surrounded by small dairy operations and an Indian reservation to the east. One black family in the entire place. I heard the n-word used once, and that was by a teen attempting to insult my older sister. Said teen obviously had no knowledge of what it meant beyond it being a derogatory word. She just laughed at him. I suspect there was a undercurrent of local bigotry about the Indians over on the reservation, but I was not exposed to it much due to who I hung out with not being in that crowd.

331 erik_t  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 8:44:23am

re: #329 Interesting Times

[Embedded content]

We exploded that!

332 Lidane  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 8:44:28am

Dear Jeb--

No one is "suggesting" anything. He really did lie.

Sincerely,
Me

333 Mattand  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 8:44:39am

re: #321 Interesting Times

The CNN camerawoman harassed by GOP racists comes forward:

[Embedded content]

Also, this should be on the front page of every newspaper in America. Your "liberal" media at work, kids.

Although I'm not sure why exposing racist behavior, Republican or otherwise, is "liberal".

334 Gus  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 8:44:47am
335 Lidane  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 8:46:10am

re: #334 Gus

Shorter Chuck Todd: The Dems don't have enough rich white guys for my tastes!

336 Gus  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 8:46:17am

Dear God. Chuck Todd.

337 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 8:46:52am

Chuck Todd is such a tool.

338 Our Precious Bodily Fluids  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 8:47:16am

re: #288 Learned Mother of Zion

Same mentality that thinks poor people could just lift themselves out of poverty by the bootstraps if they just went out and got a job, like at Micky D's or Wal-Mart.

But see, if only the Holy Job Creators paid zero taxes, there would be enough jobs that everyone would finally be able to get that second or third job and then maybe they could start saving for that hip replacement.

339 erik_t  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 8:47:34am

I honestly don't know how you say something like that with a straight face. I really don't.

It must take practice. Maybe that's why Romney lies so much, so he can pull off the whopper when he needs to.

340 Gus  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 8:48:45am

re: #337 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

Chuck Todd is such a tool.

Better not let Wrenchwench see that.

//

341 HappyBenghazi  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 8:49:21am

Yeah I don't know how you can say that with a straight face. What a tool.

342 Mattand  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 8:50:29am

re: #334 Gus

Yeah, Chuck is right. Look it all the minority Presidents the GOP has helped elect.

Good money says that Todd did that on Morning Joe, because he knows if he tried that with Maddow, Schultz, or Matthews, they'd expose his stupidity without working up a sweat.

I'm guessing Todd is MSNBC's token conservative?

343 erik_t  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 8:50:30am

I'm doing my part to work within the frustrating modern media paradigm. Give a pageview to those writers who actually call out Ryan, doubly so if it's with stark language and/or in a headline.

This is how you, the viewer, tell the media what is valuable to you. I wish it were not this way, but here we are.

344 danarchy  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 8:53:56am

re: #334 Gus

[Embedded content]

He may be overstating it, but watching the convention speakers so far you would think the GOP was 50% Latino.

345 Gus  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 8:54:13am

re: #342 Mattand

Yeah, Chuck is right. Look it all the minority Presidents the GOP has helped elect.

Good money says that Todd did that on Morning Joe, because he knows if he tried that with Maddow, Schultz, or Matthews, they'd expose his stupidity without working up a sweat.

I'm guessing Todd is MSNBC's token conservative?

Yeah. Right of center for the most part. I never pay much attention to these idiots. American media is in a serious crisis right now.

346 HappyBenghazi  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 8:54:42am

I think I read something recently that said 60% of registered Democrats are white while in contrast 87% of registered Republicans are. I guess Todd is pointing to Haley, Sandoval, Martinez, as proof of the GOP's diversity but I can easily point to Obama and his cabinet as a diverse group too.

347 Gus  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 8:54:59am

re: #344 danarchy

He may be overstating it, but watching the convention speakers so far you would think the GOP was 50% Latino.

That's by design.

348 Interesting Times in Benghazi  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 8:55:33am
349 HappyBenghazi  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 8:55:56am

re: #347 Gus

That's by design.

Yep gotta cover up the fact that your nominee is losing big with Latino voters by doing something like that.

350 Obdicut  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 8:55:56am

re: #344 danarchy

He may be overstating it, but watching the convention speakers so far you would think the GOP was 50% Latino.

Not something that generally fools latinos. They know they don't have any sway in the GOP.

351 Varek Raith  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 8:55:57am

re: #334 Gus

[Embedded content]

Haha whut.

352 blueraven  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 8:56:04am

re: #342 Mattand

Yeah, Chuck is right. Look it all the minority Presidents the GOP has helped elect.

Good money says that Todd did that on Morning Joe, because he knows if he tried that with Maddow, Schultz, or Matthews, they'd expose his stupidity without working up a sweat.

I'm guessing Todd is MSNBC's token conservative?

I dont think so. And I am going to defend Todd here for a minute.
He was talking about elected officials speaking at the DNC, not overall diversity
Name one Hispanic Democratic Governor. I cant think of any currently.

353 HappyBenghazi  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 8:57:32am

re: #352 blueraven

I dont think so. And I am going to defend Todd here for a minute.
He was talking about elected officials speaking at the DNC, not overall diversity
Name one Hispanic Democratic Governor. I cant think of any currently.

Well the DNC keynote speaker is a Latino and he's mayor of a city that is bigger population wise than quite a few states.

354 Lidane  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 8:57:45am
355 ShaunP  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 8:57:51am

re: #332 Lidane

[Embedded content]

Dear Jeb--

No one is "suggesting" anything. He really did lie.

Sincerely,
Me

"Lie" is a strong word and shouldn't just get thrown around. It should be reserved for shouting at sitting presidents while they are making speeches...

356 Gus  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 8:58:10am
Democratic Party

Joe Baca (U.S. Representative from California)
Xavier Becerra (U.S. Representative from California, former chairman of the Congressional Hispanic Caucus)
Albert Bustamante (former U.S. Representative from Texas, former chairman of the Congressional Hispanic Caucus)
Cruz Bustamante (former Lieutenant Governor of California and Speaker of the California State Assembly)
Linda Chavez-Thompson (former vice chair of the Democratic National Committee, 2010 Democratic nominee for Lieutenant Governor of Texas)
Gery Chico (chairman of the Illinois State Board of Education)
Henry Cisneros (former Secretary of Housing and Urban Development and mayor of San Antonio, TX; second Latino mayor of a U.S. city)
Kika de la Garza (former U.S. Representative from Texas, former chairman of the Congressional Hispanic Caucus)
Jaime Fuster (1941-2007) (Deputy Assistant Attorney General of the United States, Associate Justice to the Supreme Court of Puerto Rico, Resident Commissioner of Puerto Rico to the U.S. Congress, chairman of the Congressional Hispanic Caucus)
Robert García (former U.S. Representative from New York, former chairman of the Congressional Hispanic Caucus)
Edward D. Garza (former mayor of San Antonio, TX)
Ron Gonzales (former mayor of San Jose, CA)
Charlie Gonzalez (U.S. Representative from Texas, chairman of the Congressional Hispanic Caucus)
Raúl Grijalva (U.S. Representative from Arizona)
Luis Gutiérrez (U.S. Representative from Illinois)
Rubén Hinojosa (U.S. Representative from Texas)
Matthew G. Martínez (former U.S. Representative from California, former chairman of the Congressional Hispanic Caucus; switched party affiliation to Republican after being defeated in 2000 primary)
Bob Menendez (U.S. Senator and former U.S. Representative from New Jersey, former chairman of the Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee and House Democratic Caucus)
Gloria Molina (chairwoman of the Los Angeles County Metropolitan Transportation Authority)
Grace Napolitano (U.S. Representative from California, former chairwoman of the Congressional Hispanic Caucus)
Solomon P. Ortiz (former U.S. Representative from Texas, former chairman of the Congressional Hispanic Caucus)
Ed Pastor (U.S. Representative from Arizona, former chairman of the Congressional Hispanic Caucus)
Silvestre Reyes (U.S. Representative from Texas, former chairman of the Congressional Hispanic Caucus)
Bill Richardson (former Governor of New Mexico, former U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations and U.S. Secretary of Energy, former U.S. Representative and chairman of the Congressional Hispanic Caucus)
Ciro Rodriguez (former U.S. Representative from Texas, former chairman of the Congressional Hispanic Caucus)
Edward R. Roybal (1916-2005) (U.S. Representative from California, founder and first chairman of the Congressional Hispanic Caucus, co-founder of the National Association of Latino Elected and Appointed Officials)
Lucille Roybal-Allard (U.S. Representative from California, former chairwoman of the Congressional Hispanic Caucus)
Ken Salazar (U.S. Secretary of the Interior, former U.S. Senator from Colorado, former Attorney General of Colorado)
Linda Sánchez (U.S. Representative from California)
Loretta Sánchez (U.S. Representative from California)
José Enrique Serrano (U.S. Representative from New York, former chairman of the Congressional Hispanic Caucus)
Hilda Solis (U.S. Secretary of Labor, former U.S. Representative from California)
Esteban Edward Torres (former U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization, former U.S. Representative from California, former chairman of the Congressional Hispanic Caucus)
Nydia Velázquez (U.S. Representative from New York, former chairwoman of the Congressional Hispanic Caucus, first Puerto Rican woman to be elected to Congress)
Antonio Villaraigosa (Mayor of Los Angeles, former Speaker of the California State Assembly)

357 Gus  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 8:58:23am
Republican Party

Henry Bonilla (former U.S. Congressman from Texas)
Francisco Canseco (U.S. Congressman from Texas)
Lincoln Diaz-Balart (former U.S. Congressman from Florida)
Mario Diaz-Balart (U.S. Congressman from Florida)
Bill Flores (U.S. Congressman from Texas)
Jaime Herrera (U.S. Congresswoman from Washington State)
Raúl Labrador (U.S. Congressman from Idaho)
Octaviano Ambrosio Larrazolo (first Hispanic U.S. Senator)
Manuel Lujan, Jr. (former U.S. Congressman and Secretary of the Interior)
Bob Martinez (former Florida Governor)
Mel Martinez (former U.S. Senator HUD Secretary)
Susana Martinez (Governor of New Mexico)
Romualdo Pacheco (first Hispanic U.S. Congressman and California Governor)
David Rivera (U.S. Congressman from Florida)
Ileana Ros-Lehtinen (U.S. Congresswoman from Florida, first Latina in Congress)
Marco Rubio (U.S. Senator from Florida)
Brian Sandoval (Governor of Nevada)
Steve Montenegro (Member of the Arizona House of Representatives since January 2003.)

358 Gus  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 8:58:41am

Hispanic and Latino American politics

359 blueraven  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 8:59:09am

re: #353 HappyWarrior

Well the DNC keynote speaker is a Latino and he's mayor of a city that is bigger population wise than quite a few states.

Yes and Todd mentioned that...a mayor of a city in a red state.
Where are the govenors and senators?

360 Gus  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 8:59:17am

Nothing like revisionist bullshit.

361 Decatur Deb  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 8:59:32am

re: #356 Gus

re: #358 Gus

They're taking our Democratic jobs.

362 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 8:59:49am

They were fulfilling already-placed orders MORANS.

363 Interesting Times in Benghazi  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 9:00:38am

HA HA HA:

364 erik_t  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 9:01:53am

re: #363 Interesting Times

HA HA HA:

[Embedded content]

Two folks that deserve each other.

365 Gus  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 9:02:02am

re: #362 Learned Mother of Zion

They were fulfilling already-placed orders MORANS.

[Embedded content]

Revisionism.

366 lawhawk  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 9:02:47am

re: #350 Obdicut

No, but the GOP knows that they need to carry FL if they have a chance of winning in November. Tampa was a weakly held area for Obama, so if they can turn Tampa towards Romney, they could potentially carry the state.

367 HappyBenghazi  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 9:03:56am

re: #366 lawhawk

No, but the GOP knows that they need to carry FL if they have a chance of winning in November. Tampa was a weakly held area for Obama, so if they can turn Tampa towards Romney, they could potentially carry the state.

i think FL is going to be harder for Romney with Ryan as his running mate. Best shot at getting FL would have been Rubio in my opinion.

368 Obdicut  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 9:04:12am

re: #366 lawhawk

Romney needed a Hispanic as 2nd on the ticket. That would have given him a fighting chance.

369 ShaunP  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 9:05:01am

re: #365 Gus

Revisionism.

Infuriationism. GM made the decision to close at their stockholder meeting in June 2008. Unless Ryan thinks Obama should have big governmented all over GM's free market decision making, I'm not sure what they expect...

370 wrenchwench  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 9:05:19am

re: #340 Gus

Better not let Wrenchwench see that.

//

This song just came on.

371 ShaunP  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 9:05:49am

re: #368 Obdicut

Romney needed a Hispanic as 2nd on the ticket. That would have given him a fighting chance.

This x1000. I was truly worried that Rubio would have gotten the nod; he would have carried FL for Romney...

372 Killgore Trout  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 9:06:09am

re: #363 Interesting Times

HA HA HA:

[Embedded content]

The Paulians and antiwar nuts have a strong bond. The original Tea Parties started in about 2006-7 with Paulians and code pink protesting for 9-11 "truth"

373 Decatur Deb  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 9:06:39am

re: #366 lawhawk

No, but the GOP knows that they need to carry FL if they have a chance of winning in November. Tampa was a weakly held area for Obama, so if they can turn Tampa towards Romney, they could potentially carry the state.

And that's why I'm 'commuting' to Tampa for GOTV. (Looks like the courts have trashed the entirety of the FL voter suppression law. Probably not too late.)

374 makeitstopghazi  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 9:06:50am

So, we found idiots on Twitter? Say it ain't so!
/

My favorite convention pic so far:

Sign Placement FAIL

Heh.

375 HappyBenghazi  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 9:06:52am

re: #371 ShaunP

This x1000. I was truly worried that Rubio would have gotten the nod; he would have carried FL for Romney...

Reminds me since Rubio has been brought up, has he spoken at this convention yet?

376 Decatur Deb  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 9:07:49am

re: #374 makeitstop

So, we found idiots on Twitter? Say it ain't so!
/

My favorite convention pic so far:

Sign Placement FAIL

Heh.

Priceless.

377 blueraven  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 9:07:51am

re: #375 HappyWarrior

Reminds me since Rubio has been brought up, has he spoken at this convention yet?

Tonight. He will be introducing Romney

378 HappyBenghazi  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 9:08:20am

re: #377 blueraven

Tonight. He will be introducing Romney

Ah okay. Was wondering about that.

379 ShaunP  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 9:08:45am

re: #375 HappyWarrior

Reminds me since Rubio has been brought up, has he spoken at this convention yet?

He spoke the first night to little fanfare... Whoops spoke too quick...

[Link: miamiherald.typepad.com...]

380 ShaunP  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 9:09:35am

re: #379 ShaunP

He spoke the first night to little fanfare...

[Link: miamiherald.typepad.com...]

Ah crap, he hasn't spoken yet! Whoops!

381 AK-47%  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 9:10:19am

re: #362 Learned Mother of Zion

They were fulfilling already-placed orders MORANS.

[Embedded content]

This is a big red-herring issue, considering that Romney wanted to see Detroit go belly up entirely.

382 HappyBenghazi  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 9:10:46am

re: #381 Expand Your Ground

This is a big red-herring issue, considering that Romney wanted to see Detroit go belly up entirely.

Like the idiots on Twitchy care about little things like facts.

383 erik_t  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 9:12:07am

re: #372 Killgore Trout

The Paulians and antiwar nuts have a strong bond. The original Tea Parties started in about 2006-7 with Paulians and code pink protesting for 9-11 "truth"

It did?

384 Eventual Carrion  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 9:12:24am

re: #303 Mattand

Not true. If Obama's name were Barry O'Hara and whiter than Ron Howard, we would not be having this conversation. Period.

Trying to insist that the people pushing birtherism don't have a stick up their asses about minorities is willfully ignorant, and diminishes how dangerous that line of thought is.

Mitt's father was born in Mexico. Foreign born parent (same as Obama). Where is the outrage from all facets of the right like there is for Obama. Not some fringe rightwing group, but wholesale like against Obama who had a foreign born father. What is the difference between Mitt and Obama? I wonder.

385 HappyBenghazi  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 9:13:50am

re: #383 erik_t

It did?

I don't have links but I do remember the original Tea Parties in the Bush years being more of a Ron Paul like group which made the more rank and file conservatives I knew at the time deride the Tea Party as being nothing but Paulian crazies. Of course, that all changed when Obama became president and they were "Taxed Enough Already."

386 wrenchwench  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 9:14:10am

re: #383 erik_t

It did?

Ron Paul really was the first Tea Partier of the modern era.

387 Gus  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 9:14:37am

Raw Text: Rick Wagoners Speech From Todays Shareholder Meeting
By staff
Published: June 3, 2008

On the other side of the mix equation, we need to address the rapid industry shift away from trucks and SUVs. Today, we are announcing our plan to, over time, cease production at four GM truck assembly plants:

Our Oshawa, Canada, Truck Assembly facility, where we build the Chevy Silverado and GMC Sierra pickups - with the timing likely to be 2009.

Moraine, Ohio, where we build the Chevy TrailBlazer, GMC Envoy, and Saab 9-7 - at the end of the current model run in 2010, or sooner if market demand dictates.

Janesville, Wisconsin, where we build the Chevy Tahoe and Suburban, GMC Yukon, and Chevy, GMC, and Isuzu medium duty trucks. The medium duty truck line will cease operation by the end of 2009, and the SUV lines will discontinue production in 2010, or sooner if market demand remains weak.

And Toluca, Mexico, where we build Chevrolet Kodiak medium duty trucks -by the end of this year.

388 AK-47%  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 9:14:44am

re: #382 HappyWarrior

Like the idiots on Twitchy care about little things like facts.

It is all about blowing up enough of a smokescreen to let the Big Lies get through unchecked.

389 HappyBenghazi  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 9:16:18am

re: #384 RayFerd

Mitt's father was born in Mexico. Foreign born parent (same as Obama). Where is the outrage from all facets of the right like there is for Obama. Not some fringe rightwing group, but wholesale like against Obama who had a foreign born father. What is the difference between Mitt and Obama? I wonder.

Yep. The weirdest though is people like D'Souza accusing Obama of being anti-colonial as if that's a bad thing. Yeah we live in a country that won a revolution against the biggest colonial power the world has ever known and it's bad that Obama or at least Obama's father was anti-colonial.

390 Decatur Deb  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 9:18:11am

re: #385 HappyWarrior

I don't have links but I do remember the original Tea Parties in the Bush years being more of a Ron Paul like group which made the more rank and file conservatives I knew at the time deride the Tea Party as being nothing but Paulian crazies. Of course, that all changed when Obama became president and they were "Taxed Enough Already."

At one point I had about 5-6 distinct filaments that were woven into the TPs, following on Santelli's 'spontaneous' rant. Several were different shades of GOP astroturf, but there had been some Ron Paul use of the meme on the 'net.

391 lawhawk  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 9:19:32am

re: #387 Gus

It bears repeating - the decision to shutter the Janesville plant was made in 2008 by GM officials. That was all part of the attempt to keep GM afloat as the company was losing money all over the place as sales collapsed. The company fulfilled those existing orders and shuttered the plant in 2009.

That's not Obama's fault.

BTW, if Obama made a decision on Janesville, wouldn't that be picking and choosing winners and losers (another one of those GOP themes)? Oh wait - if the winner happens to benefit a GOPer politician, that's okay, but if it doesn't, then it's no good. Same thing with pork/stimulus/etc. GOPers can suck at the teat of the porker, but they castigate everyone else for doing the same.

392 Benghazzy Ben Ross  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 9:21:03am

The following link will take you to FoxNews.

Fox.

News.

Paul Ryan’s speech in 3 words

2. Deceiving
On the other hand, to anyone paying the slightest bit of attention to facts, Ryan’s speech was an apparent attempt to set the world record for the greatest number of blatant lies and misrepresentations slipped into a single political speech. On this measure, while it was Romney who ran the Olympics, Ryan earned the gold.
The good news is that the Romney-Ryan campaign has likely created dozens of new jobs among the legions of additional fact checkers that media outlets are rushing to hire to sift through the mountain of cow dung that flowed from Ryan’s mouth. Said fact checkers have already condemned certain arguments that Ryan still irresponsibly repeated.

393 Gus  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 9:22:00am

• Janesville, Wisconsin, where we build the Chevy Tahoe and Suburban, GMC Yukon, and Chevy, GMC, and Isuzu medium duty trucks.

• The medium duty truck line will cease operation by the end of 2009, and the SUV lines will discontinue production in 2010, or sooner if market demand remains weak.

-- Rick Wagoner, General Motors Press Conference - Annual Meeting of Stockholders
June 8, 2008

Wagoner even announced that the line would continue into 2009. Twitchy has no argument. Case closed.

394 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 9:22:58am

re: #384 RayFerd

Mitt's father was born in Mexico. Foreign born parent (same as Obama). Where is the outrage from all facets of the right like there is for Obama. Not some fringe rightwing group, but wholesale like against Obama who had a foreign born father. What is the difference between Mitt and Obama? I wonder.

Obama's father was a Kenyan. Mitt's father was an American born in Mexico.

Also, not that this matters as far as Mitt or Obama is concerned, Mitt's father was a good, stand-up kind of guy, and Obama's father was a jerk.

(Sorry, but impregnating an 18 year old after you leave your wife and kids behind, and then leaving the 18 year old while you get in with another woman is a bad story in my book.)

395 Lidane  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 9:23:50am

re: #371 ShaunP

This x1000. I was truly worried that Rubio would have gotten the nod; he would have carried FL for Romney...

Good thing that Rubio probably wants to run on his own in four years. My guess is that he did the same calculations that Christie did and figured that hitching his wagon to Mitt now would kill his chances later.

396 Decatur Deb  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 9:24:04am

re: #392 Mocking Jay

The following link will take you to FoxNews.

Fox.

News.

Paul Ryan’s speech in 3 words

Weird. I wonder if that is Sally Kohn's letter of resignation.

397 AK-47%  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 9:24:48am

re: #389 HappyWarrior

Yep. The weirdest though is people like D'Souza accusing Obama of being anti-colonial as if that's a bad thing. Yeah we live in a country that won a revolution against the biggest colonial power the world has ever known and it's bad that Obama or at least Obama's father was anti-colonial.

There is a two-stage dog-whistle connection here: "anti colonial" in this case refernces the Mau-mau rebellion in Kenya, with its images of blacks rising up and butchering whites. That is the very image they want to convey to people to scare them away from Obama.

398 HappyBenghazi  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 9:25:32am

re: #397 Expand Your Ground

There is a two-stage dog-whistle connection here: "anti colonial" in this case refernces the Mau-mau rebellion in Kenya, with its images of blacks rising up and butchering whites. That is the very image they want to convey to people to scare them away from Obama.

How many people really know about the Mau-mau rebellion though? But I get the point.

399 HappyBenghazi  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 9:26:00am

re: #395 Lidane

Good thing that Rubio probably wants to run on his own in four years. My guess is that he did the same calculations that Christie did and figured that hitching his wagon to Mitt now would kill his chances later.

Rubio
Christie
Santorum
McDonnell
Hmmm who else could run.

400 lawhawk  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 9:26:52am

re: #399 HappyWarrior

Rand Paul and Mike Huckabee

401 AK-47%  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 9:27:30am

re: #398 HappyWarrior

How many people really know about the Mau-mau rebellion though? But I get the point.

That is one of the things that Dinesh D'Souza and Newt Gingrich, two major conservative intellectual lumiaries, love to harp on.

402 Gus  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 9:27:46am

Janesville Assembly
Revised:2012-02-14

Production:

One main production shift; One maintenance shift (3rd)
Line 1 (Full-size SUVs)
Line 3 (NPR Low Cab Forward Chassis Cab)

2008 CY Production:
Line 1 – 95,634 (Ceased Operations 12/08)
Line 3 – 2,427
2008 CY Production:
Line 3 – 1,419 (Ceased Operations 4/23/09)

403 HappyBenghazi  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 9:27:55am

re: #400 lawhawk

Rand Paul and Mike Huckabee

Ah yeah. So that's six.

404 Eventual Carrion  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 9:28:43am

re: #328 Mattand

The CNN camerawoman harassed by GOP racists comes forward:

Carroll said no one took the names of the attendees who threw peanuts at her Tuesday on the convention floor and told her, "This is what we feed animals." She alerted fellow camera operators, producers and CNN security. The head of the delegation — she was not certain of the state — told her the perpetrators must have been alternates, not delegates.


Because no true Republican delegate would ever be a racist mouth breather.

Just 2 lone wolves in the crowd. Well two of them, so not so lone. Paired wolves they were.

405 Lidane  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 9:29:54am

re: #399 HappyWarrior

Rubio
Christie
Santorum
McDonnell
Hmmm who else could run.

Bachmann
Cain, who is convinced he'd be the nominee right now if not for a conspiracy that he's investigating
Palin, who would see an open run at the White House as her chance for grifting more idiots
Gingrich

406 HappyBenghazi  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 9:30:08am

re: #401 Expand Your Ground

That is one of the things that Dinesh D'Souza and Newt Gingrich, two major conservative intellectual lumiaries, love to harp on.

True enough. Though it's not like our own revolution was far from bloody.

407 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 9:30:26am

OWS has a new supporter...

Iran’s Supreme Leader Praises U.S. ‘Occupy’ Movement

(CNSNews.com) – The Ayatollah Ali Khamenei – the “supreme leader” of Iran – praised America’s “Occupy Wall Street” movement on Thursday, calling it a reflection of people around the world who are “losing their patience” with the dominance of the United States and Israel in the international community.

“Everybody has become tired of this faulty international structure,” Khamenei said in his inaugural address to the Non-Aligned Summit, a gathering of 120 nations now taking place in Tehran.

“The 99-percent movement of the American people against the centers of wealth and power in America and the widespread protests of the people in Western Europe against the economic policies of their governments show that the people are losing their patience with this situation,” Iran’s Fars news agency quoted him as saying.

Congratulations!

408 AK-47%  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 9:30:58am

re: #406 HappyWarrior

True enough. Though it's not like our own revolution was far from bloody.

Yes, but those were white people doing the killing, don't you get the point?

409 erik_t  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 9:31:10am

re: #405 Lidane

Gingrich

Too old? He'll be 73 in 2016.

410 HappyBenghazi  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 9:31:35am

re: #405 Lidane

Bachmann
Cain, who is convinced he'd be the nominee right now if not for a conspiracy that he's investigating
Palin, who would see an open run at the White House as her chance for grifting more idiots
Gingrich

Haha Cain's such a nut though you know the fact that Santorum did as well as he did suggests to me that Cain may have been able to put up a decent fight if not for the sexual harassment allegations.

411 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 9:31:38am

re: #409 erik_t

Too old? He'll be 73 in 2016.

So then he'll be old and creepy.

412 erik_t  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 9:31:45am

re: #407 NJDhockeyfan

OWS has a new supporter...

Iran’s Supreme Leader Praises U.S. ‘Occupy’ Movement

Congratulations!

Wow, a guy about whose opinions I do not give a fuck opines on a subject about which nobody any longer gives a fuck.

Nice find!

/

413 Eventual Carrion  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 9:31:51am

re: #334 Gus

@chucktodd says Democrats wish they had the same "diversity" as GOP> Seriously: youtube.com/watch?v=7V_lup...

— Chips (@___Chips___) August 30, 2012

They have both Country AND Western!

414 HappyBenghazi  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 9:32:06am

re: #411 Mostly sane, most of the time.

So then he'll be old and creepy.

He's already old and creepy and was in the 90's.

415 makeitstopghazi  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 9:33:07am

re: #411 Mostly sane, most of the time.

So then he'll be old and creepy.

That ship has sailed.

416 Gus  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 9:33:31am

re: #407 NJDhockeyfan

OWS has a new supporter...

Iran’s Supreme Leader Praises U.S. ‘Occupy’ Movement

Congratulations!

Thanks for the CNS (cough) news link. OWS is screwed up in many ways. But does the Ayatollah Ali Khamenei saying this is supposed to mean something? Are we therefore making the moral equivalency of Ayatollahs with OWS?

417 makeitstopghazi  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 9:33:53am

Back to OWSDS. What, did we run out of idiots on Twitter?

418 Lidane  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 9:34:01am

re: #411 Mostly sane, most of the time.

So then he'll be old and creepy.

He was creepy back in the 90's. Now he's just older.

419 Decatur Deb  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 9:34:23am

re: #399 HappyWarrior

Rubio
Christie
Santorum
McDonnell
Hmmm who else could run.

Huntsman--who has an abiding faith that, in a just world, all these fools would be lost in a hideous ice-fishing accident leaving him as the obvious Restored GOP choice.

420 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 9:34:33am

re: #417 makeitstop

Back to OWSDS. What, did we run out of idiots on Twitter?

If you want an idiot from Twitter here is one.

421 Lidane  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 9:35:11am

Heh:

422 Gus  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 9:35:27am

Derp.

423 Decatur Deb  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 9:36:02am

re: #420 NJDhockeyfan

If you want an idiot from Twitter here is one.

[Embedded content]

Get back to us when you reach a representative sample.

424 HappyBenghazi  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 9:36:02am

re: #421 Lidane

Heh:

[Embedded content]

I just heard from some friends that Ryan used Led Zeppelin and AC/DC as proof he understands today's young people in his speech. I enjoy both of those bands but damn.

425 Lidane  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 9:36:18am
426 Varek Raith  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 9:36:34am

re: #420 NJDhockeyfan

If you want an idiot from Twitter here is one.

[Embedded content]

There's a whole convention center full of them in Tampa.
Why u no talk about that?!?!
:P

427 makeitstopghazi  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 9:37:05am

re: #420 NJDhockeyfan

If you want an idiot from Twitter here is one.

[Embedded content]

Who said I wanted one?

428 Lidane  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 9:38:07am
429 Decatur Deb  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 9:38:20am

re: #424 HappyWarrior

I just heard from some friends that Ryan used Led Zeppelin and AC/DC as proof he understands today's young people in his speech. I enjoy both of those bands but damn.

Thought AC/DC was a NO/NO for the TP/GOP.

430 Killgore Trout  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 9:38:26am

re: #416 Gus

Thanks for the CNS (cough) news link. OWS is screwed up in many ways. But does the Ayatollah Ali Khamenei saying this is supposed to mean something? Are we therefore making the moral equivalency of Ayatollahs with OWS?

When the movement was at its height there was an almost daily stream of occupy representatives appearing on Iranian state tv so this shouldn't surprise you.

431 Gus  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 9:38:26am

Comments:

Moose • 20 minutes ago
It looks like IRAN and OBAMA have something in common!

MBlueraider • 6 minutes ago
Nice to see he is in agreement with Pres. Obama

432 Varek Raith  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 9:38:37am

re: #428 Lidane

[Embedded content]

RANDOM TWITTER POST!

433 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 9:39:18am

re: #424 HappyWarrior

I just heard from some friends that Ryan used Led Zeppelin and AC/DC as proof he understands today's young people in his speech. I enjoy both of those bands but damn.

Um.

I hate to break this to you, but "young people?" Those are bands from the 70's/early 80's.

They weren't fresh and new when I was a teen.

They are right about Ryan's generation. (He's just a few years older than me.)

434 AK-47%  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 9:40:12am

re: #424 HappyWarrior

I just heard from some friends that Ryan used Led Zeppelin and AC/DC as proof he understands today's young people in his speech. I enjoy both of those bands but damn.

Yes, bands who turned out records that the parents of "today's young people" listened to...

435 Gus  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 9:40:23am

re: #430 Killgore Trout

When the movement was at its height there was an almost daily stream of occupy representatives appearing on Iranian state tv so this shouldn't surprise you.

Sheesh. You can't figure out what they're doing here? It's the same crap the KGB and Soviet Union would pull on the American left during the Cold War and the Viet Nam war. What is it that you don't understand about Ayatollah's game here? It's the same crap that Russia Today pulls. It's divide and conquer. The Ayatollah doesn't give a crap about OWS. He's using it as a political tool and you're falling for it.

436 HappyBenghazi  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 9:40:32am

re: #433 Mostly sane, most of the time.

Um.

I hate to break this to you, but "young people?" Those are bands from the 70's/early 80's.

They weren't fresh and new when I was a teen.

They are right about Ryan's generation. (He's just a few years older than me.)

That's my point. Those bands aren't fresh and new.

437 Lidane  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 9:41:17am

re: #424 HappyWarrior

I just heard from some friends that Ryan used Led Zeppelin and AC/DC as proof he understands today's young people in his speech. I enjoy both of those bands but damn.

LOL. Led Zeppelin were already on the classic rock station when I was a kid and I'm 39. Nobody under 30 would consider AC/DC or Led Zeppelin relevant to their interests. If he'd mentioned anyone cooler, those bands would have sent Cease & Desist letters.

438 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 9:41:48am

I'm going to ask my teens to name a relevant band:

15 & 17 year old: Lady Gaga, One Direction, Rihanna, Usher, Adele, Katy Perry etc.

Which is not to say they listen to these bands in particular, it's just what they named.

439 erik_t  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 9:42:03am

re: #435 Gus

It's divide and conquer. The Ayatollah doesn't give a crap about OWS. He's using it as a political tool and you're falling for it.

Clearly you're not getting the message here. The Ayatollah. From, like, IRAN.

/

440 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 9:42:35am

re: #436 HappyWarrior

That's my point. Those bands aren't fresh and new.

I don't think he was trying to relate to young people. I think he was saying that Mitt Romney is a generation older than him, which he is.

441 blueraven  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 9:42:40am

re: #435 Gus

Sheesh. You can't figure out what they're doing here? It's the same crap the KGB and Soviet Union would pull on the American left during the Cold War and the Viet Nam war. What is it that you don't understand about Ayatollah's game here? It's the same crap that Russia Today pulls. It's divide and conquer. The Ayatollah doesn't give a crap about OWS. He's using it as a political tool and you're falling for it.

Tokyo Rose

442 Lidane  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 9:42:47am

re: #439 erik_t

Clearly you're not getting the message here. The Ayatollah. From, like, IRAN.

/

ZOMG! The Ayatollah supports rapey stabby! Eleventy!

443 HappyBenghazi  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 9:43:18am

re: #437 Lidane

LOL. Led Zeppelin were already on the classic rock station when I was a kid and I'm 39. Nobody under 30 would consider AC/DC or Led Zeppelin relevant to their interests. If he'd mentioned anyone cooler, those bands would have sent Cease & Desist letters.

John Bonham and Bon Scott have both been dead for over 30 years too. I mean they're both great bands and I can appreciate them but the guy's as out of touch as his running mate if he's using them as proof that he understands America's young people. Shit I had a girl ask me at a party once if "Teen Spirit" was the same as "Teenage Wasteland."

444 HappyBenghazi  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 9:43:37am

re: #440 Mostly sane, most of the time.

I don't think he was trying to relate to young people. I think he was saying that Mitt Romney is a generation older than him, which he is.

I guess so and you're right he is.

445 lawhawk  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 9:43:51am

re: #416 Gus

Or that he also makes the tired anti-Jewish argument about Jews controlling banking?

He had claimed (October 2011) that OWS would topple the American government. So, he's now claiming that everyone's grown tired of it. Way to hold to their convictions.

Under Khamenei, Iran murdered and detained thousands in cracking down against protesters at the last presidential elections there (pitting Mousavi v. Ahmadinejad) so he has no grounds on which to speak about equality, fairness, or human rights.

446 darthstar  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 9:43:55am

re: #266 Lidane

In her defense, Barbara Bush did look like the Quaker Oats guy.

447 Varek Raith  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 9:44:04am

Yes.
Let's ignore the crazy political party with real fucking power in favor of a dead movement that is, well, dead.

448 Kragarghazi  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 9:44:22am

My kids would say Foo Fighters and Iron Maiden.

Because Maiden is always relevant, plus they hear them all the time.

449 makeitstopghazi  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 9:44:53am

re: #433 Mostly sane, most of the time.

Um.

I hate to break this to you, but "young people?" Those are bands from the 70's/early 80's.

They weren't fresh and new when I was a teen.

I play for kids every week. They love AC/DC and Zeppelin.

450 Gus  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 9:44:55am

re: #439 erik_t

Clearly you're not getting the message here. The Ayatollah. From, like, IRAN.

/

...

Barrack HUSSEIN Obama hearts OWS while Ayatollah Ali Khamenei hearts OWS therefore Barrack HUSSEIN Obama hearts Ayatollah Ali Khamenei and hates teh JUICE!

451 HappyBenghazi  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 9:44:57am

Jay-Z, Eminem.

452 Varek Raith  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 9:45:13am

RHCP.

453 Obdicut  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 9:45:45am

re: #448 Kragar

I missed something. What's the question? Favorite modern musicians?

454 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 9:45:57am

re: #448 Kragar

My kids would say Foo Fighters and Iron Maiden.

Because Maiden is always relevant, plus they hear them all the time.

My kids know U2. (I asked just now. They know those names, but couldn't name a song.)

455 erik_t  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 9:46:11am

re: #453 Obdicut

I missed something. What's the question? Favorite modern musicians?

Paul Ryan can relate to young people because something something 80s musicians.

456 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 9:46:23am

re: #438 Mostly sane, most of the time.

I'm going to ask my teens to name a relevant band:

15 & 17 year old: Lady Gaga, One Direction, Rihanna, Usher, Adele, Katy Perry etc.

Which is not to say they listen to these bands in particular, it's just what they named.

I never know who is singing when my girls are listening to their music. When I ask them they give me the look like Excuse me? Why don't you know?

457 HappyBenghazi  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 9:46:53am

re: #435 Gus

Sheesh. You can't figure out what they're doing here? It's the same crap the KGB and Soviet Union would pull on the American left during the Cold War and the Viet Nam wars. What is it that you don't understand about Ayatollah's game here? It's the same crap that Russia Today pulls. It's divide and conquer. The Ayatollah doesn't give a crap about OWS. He's using it as a political tool and you're falling for it.

Didn't they do the same thing on Civil Rights and the real crazies used that to claim that Civil Rights was a Soviet plot. I am not an OWS fan but I could give two shits what the Ayatollah of Iran is saying about when he's obviously doing this as a means to an end. That guy only cares about one thing and that's his own power. If an OWS like movement appeared in Iran, he'd claim the same thing he's claiming about Wall Street. The fact that people buy this crap hook, line, and sinker is sad.

458 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 9:47:10am

re: #456 NJDhockeyfan

I never know who is singing when my girls are listening to their music. When I ask them they give me the look like Excuse me? Why don't you know?

If it's Adele, you earned that look.

The woman has talent.

If it's One Direction, don't worry.

459 makeitstopghazi  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 9:47:19am

re: #455 erik_t

Paul Ryan can relate to young people because something something 80s 70s musicians.

FTFY

460 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 9:48:01am

re: #453 Obdicut

I missed something. What's the question? Favorite modern musicians?

We're discussing Paul Ryan's favorite musicians, neither of whom can I listen to for very long.

On the other hand, I've always loved Robert Plant's solo stuff as well as his duet album with Alison Krauss.

461 Lidane  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 9:48:18am

Cue the wingnut whining:

462 jaunte  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 9:48:22am

D.C. Court Rejects Texas' Voter ID Law

Opponents argue that the bill would adversely affect voters who don’t have easy access to an ID, something the court agreed with in its ruling. Under Section 5 of the federal Voting Rights Act, the federal government must approve laws passed in states with a history of racial discrimination.

“We find that Texas has failed to make this showing—in fact, record evidence demonstrates that, if implemented, SB 14 will likely have a retrogressive effect,” the U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia judges wrote in their opinion. “Given this, we have no need to consider whether Texas has satisfied section 5’s purpose element. Accordingly we deny the state’s request for a declaratory judgment.”

463 Obdicut  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 9:48:41am

re: #455 erik_t

Paul Ryan can relate to young people because something something 80s musicians.

Ah haha.

Come one Ryan, get down with some RJD2 and show the kids you're hip to the now.

Youtube Video

Or go strange and get around some Florence and the Machine

Youtube Video
464 Gus  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 9:48:52am

I better get to work. Later.

465 HappyBenghazi  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 9:48:56am

There's a lot of good new stuff out. Which is why I always laugh when I hear "There's no good music anymore." You just have to look.

466 Lidane  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 9:49:31am

re: #463 Obdicut

NO. Florence + the Machine are far too awesome to be tainted by Paul Ryan.

467 darthstar  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 9:49:33am

re: #449 makeitstop

I play for kids every week. They love AC/DC and Zeppelin.

I've always liked Zeppelin, but Led's vocals were a bit whiny.
// (second Led Zeppelin joke this week...)

468 Killgore Trout  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 9:49:42am

re: #435 Gus

Sheesh. You can't figure out what they're doing here? It's the same crap the KGB and Soviet Union would pull on the American left during the Cold War and the Viet Nam war. What is it that you don't understand about Ayatollah's game here? It's the same crap that Russia Today pulls. It's divide and conquer. The Ayatollah doesn't give a crap about OWS. He's using it as a political tool and you're falling for it.

Of course the Iranians exploited the useful idiots from OWS and they are willing dupes. That was one of the many things I warned about long ago. The communists, anarchists and bradley Manning fans only serve America's enemies. They are useless.

469 Varek Raith  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 9:49:46am

re: #465 HappyWarrior

There's a lot of good new stuff out. Which is why I always laugh when I hear "There's no good music anymore." You just have to look.

Politifact rating: Pants on fire.
/

470 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 9:50:02am

re: #463 Obdicut

Ah haha.

Come one Ryan, get down with some RJD2 and show the kids you're hip to the now.

[Embedded content]

The Princess loves Shake It Out.

471 Decatur Deb  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 9:50:42am

re: #461 Lidane

Cue the wingnut whining:

[Embedded content]

Florida's voter suppression law just fell. Looks like the timing is good.

472 gwangung  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 9:50:43am

re: #468 Killgore Trout

Of course the Iranians exploited the useful idiots from OWS and they are willing dupes. That was one of the many things I warned about long ago. The communists, anarchists and bradley Manning fans only serve America's enemies. They are useless.

Hm. Misses a point, I think.

473 erik_t  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 9:51:02am

re: #468 Killgore Trout

Of course the Iranians exploited the useful idiots from OWS and they are willing dupes. That was one of the many things I warned about long ago. The communists, anarchists and bradley Manning fans only serve America's enemies. They are useless.

Every night, I check under my bed for monsters.

474 lawhawk  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 9:51:15am

re: #457 HappyWarrior

Khamenei and Ahmadinejad would claim that an Iran-based OWS was the work of the evil Jooos and US hell-bent on overthrowing the legitimate government of Iran (which continues to suffer from massive unemployment, artificially distorting markets - especially oil with subsidies) and limited economic opportunities - the same issues that resulted in regimes falling throughout the Middle East and North Africa. They've already shown themselves willing to use violence to maintain their power, so it's completely in keeping with their worldview.

And that they back Assad isn't surprising either, even though he's brutalizing the Syrian people on a daily basis. DAISDDAID (do as i say; dont do as i do)

475 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 9:51:17am

Not to be found on the radio:

Youtube Video
476 Obdicut  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 9:51:18am

re: #468 Killgore Trout

Hitchens was a communist. A Trotskyite.

477 blueraven  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 9:51:30am

re: #473 erik_t

Every night, I check under my bed for monsters.

Hey now!

478 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 9:51:51am

re: #473 erik_t

Every night, I check under my bed for monsters.

You and Stephen King (the novelist).

Honestly, if you had his brain, wouldn't you check under the bed? And avoid clowns? And classic cars?

479 Lidane  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 9:51:58am
480 Killgore Trout  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 9:52:14am

re: #476 Obdicut

Hitchens was a communist. A Trotskyite.

That's his problem. I never took his advice on economics seriously anyways.

481 blueraven  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 9:52:53am

re: #478 Mostly sane, most of the time.

You and Stephen King (the novelist).

Honestly, if you had his brain, wouldn't you check under the bed? And avoid clowns? And classic cars?

And Carlos Santana

482 HappyBenghazi  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 9:53:40am

re: #479 Lidane

[Embedded content]

And not even a week after Snooki becomes a mother.

483 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 9:54:23am

re: #458 Mostly sane, most of the time.

If it's Adele, you earned that look.

The woman has talent.

If it's One Direction, don't worry.

I never heard of either one of them. They probably never heard of Deep Purple or Stevie Ray Vaughan so I guess we are even.

484 Benghazzy Ben Ross  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 9:54:26am

Video of the MSNBC crew taking Scott Walker apart.

[Link: leanforward.msnbc.com...]

485 Lidane  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 9:54:29am
486 Obdicut  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 9:54:54am

re: #480 Killgore Trout

That's his problem. I never took his advice on economics seriously anyways.

He wasn't, however, useless. There have been a lot of great Communists or near-Communists in the US who have done a lot to improve this country. There were a lot of people duped by the Soviet Union, too, but a lot of the early labor leaders were in fact communists and did in fact achieve a lot for worker rights in this country. And even when they were blocked out of direct jobs, their presence forced industry to grant labor rights out of fear of actual Communist revolution from an oppressed working class.

Of course, as a Classical Liberal, you're anti-union anyway.

487 Varek Raith  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 9:55:17am

re: #485 Lidane

[Embedded content]

Subtle.

488 HappyBenghazi  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 9:56:41am

re: #486 Obdicut

He wasn't, however, useless. There have been a lot of great Communists or near-Communists in the US who have done a lot to improve this country. There were a lot of people duped by the Soviet Union, too, but a lot of the early labor leaders were in fact communists and did in fact achieve a lot for worker rights in this country. And even when they were blocked out of direct jobs, their presence forced industry to grant labor rights out of fear of actual Communist revolution from an oppressed working class.

Of course, as a Classical Liberal, you're anti-union anyway.

If I recall, CPUSA was the only party that consistently supported the movement to outlaw lynching in this country. I have problems with communism but the actions of communists really aren't so black and white.

489 Lidane  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 9:57:10am

re: #487 Varek Raith

Subtle.

Speaking of subtle, the National Review's favorite Brit is bleating again:

490 Decatur Deb  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 9:57:22am

re: #485 Lidane

[Embedded content]

Don't want the TPGOPers dead--want them to have a blinding, brain-crushing moment of self-awareness.

491 HappyBenghazi  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 9:58:40am

re: #489 Lidane

Speaking of subtle, the National Review's favorite Brit is bleating again:

[Embedded content]

Why doesn't he just go back to the UK and leave us alone? Apologies to any Brits here, but damn it I'm sick of that racist asshole bitching about immigrants and minorities when he was an illegal immigrant himself.

492 Kragarghazi  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 9:58:42am

re: #489 Lidane

Speaking of subtle, the National Review's favorite Brit is bleating again:

[Embedded content]

"The thing I find myself wondering is: are these truly, as I said back then, different kinds of problem—underclass blacks in America, gypsies in Europe?

In both cases you have a big racial-ethnic bloc of people who are, for whatever reason—discuss among yourselves—radically ill-fitted for life in bourgeois society."

What racism?

493 gwangung  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 9:58:59am

re: #488 HappyWarrior

If I recall, CPUSA was the only party that consistently supported the movement to outlaw lynching in this country. I have problems with communism but the actions of communists really aren't so black and white.

They were fairly anti-miscegenation. And pro-civil rights.

494 Obdicut  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 9:59:21am

re: #488 HappyWarrior

I have immense problems with communism in all its various and manifold forms, but I also have immense problems with democracy combined with scientific ignorance and unregulated campaign finance. Communism's main problem is that it requires a cultural change in order to work. I prefer systems that deal with human nature as it is instead of claiming the ability to radically transform it.

Communism's main use, like Marx's original work, is as a critique, not a system of its own.

495 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 9:59:40am

Ban Ki-Moon must be having a tough time sitting there and listening to this shit. What normal human being wouldn't?

Iranian Supreme Leader: Israelis are 'Ferocious Zionist Wolves'

In yet another outrageously anti-Semitic speech, Iranian Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, speaking Thursday at the Non-Aligned Movement (NAM) summit, called Israelis “ferocious Zionist wolves who digest the Palestinian people.”

United Nations Secretary-General Ban Ki-Moon, who decided to attend the summit in Iran despite a wave of protests calling on him to boycott the event, remained seated throughout the duration of the speech, refraining from showing opposition to the outwardly hateful remarks.

In comments made prior to the beginning of the summit, Ban said that he "strongly rejects threats by any member state to destroy another or outrageous attempts to deny historical facts such as the Holocaust," without explicitly mentioning Iran.

“Claiming that Israel does not have the right to exist or describing it in racist terms is not only wrong but undermines the very principle we all have pledged to uphold,” Ban said.

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu recently called the summit, which drew more than 120 countries to Iran, “a disgrace and a stain on humanity.”

496 Decatur Deb  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 9:59:46am

re: #489 Lidane

Speaking of subtle, the National Review's favorite Brit is bleating again:

Conservative columnist John Derbyshire: Blacks "radically ill-fitted for life in bourgeois society" bit.ly/QE8hqo

[Embedded content]

He's right. The Alabama Blacks I know have hardly a periwig among them.

497 HappyBenghazi  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 10:00:04am

re: #493 gwangung

They were fairly anti-miscegenation. And pro-civil rights.

The latter I know is what drew Richard Wright to them. His autobiography, Black Boy remains one of my favorites.

498 Kragarghazi  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 10:00:35am

re: #490 Decatur Deb

Don't want the TPGOPers dead--want them to have a blinding, brain-crushing moment of self-awareness.

Of course when the Cybermen achieve self awareness, their heads explode, so I imagine it would go something like that.

499 lawhawk  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 10:00:46am

New details about that Fort Stewart terror plot involving anarchists. Turns out that one of the four soldiers was a suspect in his wife's death before he went and murdered two other people who were "loose ends" that needed to be taken care of before they could carry out their wider plots - to capture an ammo dump, commit mass murder, and assassinate the president.

Isaac Aguigui funded the anarchist militia FEAR, or Forever Enduring Always Ready, with up to $500,000 in life insurance benefits he collected after his wife's death in July 2011, prosecutors said.

Aguigui and three other soldiers stationed at Fort Stewart in southeastern Georgia near Savannah have since been charged with murder and other offenses stemming from the December 5, 2011, shooting deaths of a former soldier and his teenage girlfriend.

Aguigui, 21, and two others were scheduled to appear in court in Long County, Georgia, for a hearing on Thursday. A third co-defendant reached a plea deal with prosecutors on Monday.

The accused militia members had plotted to assassinate President Barack Obama and to attack their Army base and a dam in Aguigui's home state of Washington, Assistant County District Attorney Isabel Pauley said during those proceedings.

They also discussed poisoning the apple crop in Washington state and had purchased $87,000 worth of weapons to carry out their planned attacks, she said.

Prosecutors said the group crossed the line from conspiracy to actual violence when they killed Michael Roark, 19, and Tiffany York, 17, whose bodies were found in a wooded area near the base, in a bid to keep them from exposing the militia.

One of the four charged has already rolled on the other three - taking a plea deal for voluntary manslaughter and avoiding the death penalty as long as he continues cooperating.

500 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 10:00:48am

re: #493 gwangung

They were fairly anti-miscegenation. And pro-civil rights.

Do you mean anti-anti-miscengenation? Otherwise, your sentence is a bit sideways.

501 HappyBenghazi  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 10:01:01am

re: #494 Obdicut

I have immense problems with communism in all its various and manifold forms, but I also have immense problems with democracy combined with scientific ignorance and unregulated campaign finance. Communism's main problem is that it requires a cultural change in order to work. I prefer systems that deal with human nature as it is instead of claiming the ability to radically transform it.

Communism's main use, like Marx's original work, is as a critique, not a system of its own.

Said it better than I could.

502 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 10:01:07am

re: #495 NJDhockeyfan

Ban Ki-Moon must be having a tough time sitting there and listening to this shit. What normal human being wouldn't?

Iranian Supreme Leader: Israelis are 'Ferocious Zionist Wolves'

"Ferocious Zionist Wolf" is a great screen nic.

503 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 10:02:00am

re: #494 Obdicut

I have immense problems with communism in all its various and manifold forms, but I also have immense problems with democracy combined with scientific ignorance and unregulated campaign finance. Communism's main problem is that it requires a cultural change in order to work. I prefer systems that deal with human nature as it is instead of claiming the ability to radically transform it.

Communism's main use, like Marx's original work, is as a critique, not a system of its own.

You mean the subtle fact that people won't work hard and try to excel if they don't have an incentive to?

Leading to three hour lines for a roll of toilet paper?

504 gwangung  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 10:02:08am

re: #500 Mostly sane, most of the time.

Do you mean anti-anti-miscengenation? Otherwise, your sentence is a bit sideways.

The multiple negatives always trip me up.

But I think the point is that there are valid policy points of attraction there...

505 Obdicut  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 10:02:11am

re: #502 Learned Mother of Zion

"Ferocious Zionist Wolf" is a great screen nic.

I like Relatively Mild But You Don't Want To Get On His Bad Side Oh I Could Tell You Stories Zionist Wolf

506 lawhawk  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 10:02:51am

re: #502 Learned Mother of Zion

It's a kickass band name to boot. Winston Wolf would approve.

507 HappyBenghazi  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 10:03:02am

Mother in law from hell Zionist?

508 AK-47%  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 10:03:31am

re: #507 HappyWarrior

Mother in law from hell Zionist?

The Castrating Zionist?

509 Obdicut  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 10:04:03am

re: #503 Mostly sane, most of the time.

You mean the subtle fact that people won't work hard and try to excel if they don't have an incentive to?

Well, yes, but bearing in mind that not all incentive is economic. One of the biggest failures in communist countries has been the lack of academic freedom, which stifles science. It's not just the command economy part, though command economy does suck for providing retail goods, that's for damn sure.

510 Hercules Grytpype-Thynne  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 10:04:07am

re: #493 gwangung

They were fairly anti-miscegenation. And pro-civil rights.

Do you mean pro-miscegenation? Otherwise I can't make sense of your comment.

mis·ceg·e·na·tion

NOUN:

1. The interbreeding of different races or of persons of different racial backgrounds.
2. Cohabitation, sexual relations, or marriage involving persons of different races.
3. A mixture or hybridization: "There was musical miscegenation at a time when segregation was the common rule" (Don McLeese).

511 Killgore Trout  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 10:05:18am

re: #484 Mocking Jay

Video of the MSNBC crew taking Scott Walker apart.

[Link: leanforward.msnbc.com...]

I Watched Chris Matthews Eat a Sandwich at the RNC

Youtube Video
512 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 10:05:30am

re: #510 Hercules Grytpype-Thynne

See, to me, anti-anti-miscengenation means "I won't get in their way, it's their business," while pro-miscegenation means you're actively out matchmaking.

513 makeitstopghazi  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 10:06:08am

re: #499 lawhawk

New details about that Fort Stewart terror plot involving anarchists. Turns out that one of the four soldiers was a suspect in his wife's death before he went and murdered two other people who were "loose ends" that needed to be taken care of before they could carry out their wider plots - to capture an ammo dump, commit mass murder, and assassinate the president.

One of the four charged has already rolled on the other three - taking a plea deal for voluntary manslaughter and avoiding the death penalty as long as he continues cooperating.

I can think of so many other things to spend $500K on. Useful things.

514 Decatur Deb  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 10:06:38am

re: #512 Mostly sane, most of the time.

See, to me, anti-anti-miscengenation means "I won't get in their way, it's their business," while pro-miscegenation means you're actively out matchmaking.

Misyentenation.

515 AK-47%  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 10:06:44am

re: #509 Obdicut

Well, yes, but bearing in mind that not all incentive is economic. One of the biggest failures in communist countries has been the lack of academic freedom, which stifles science. It's not just the command economy part, though command economy does suck for providing retail goods, that's for damn sure.

Even Adam Smith (in one of the overlloked parts of his Wealth of Nations) wrote that a major role of government is to help ameliorate the sense of alienation felt by workers who take part in a system where they produce only one small component and have no relationship to the product or process as a whole.

516 Varek Raith  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 10:07:02am

re: #510 Hercules Grytpype-Thynne

Do you mean pro-miscegenation? Otherwise I can't make sense of your comment.

UNINFLAMMABLE!

517 Kragarghazi  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 10:07:17am

Departure From Usual: Traditional Media Call Out Ryan For Factually Dubious Speech

“I marked at least seven or eight points I’m sure the fact checkers will have some opportunities to dispute if they want to go forward,” said CNN anchor Wolf Blitzer on air after Paul Ryan’s speech Wednesday night. “I’m sure they will.”

The vice presidential nominee’s address to the Republican convention received rave reviews from conservatives who ate up his denunciation of President Obama. The media highlighted their adulation in early stories about the speech.

But the Wisconsin congressman’s speech strained facts on multiple occasions. And that has rankled more than just the usual suspects. Several mainstream outlets that have praised him in the past pointedly went after his misleading portrayals of critical issues at stake in this election.

The Associated Press took on Ryan’s misleading assertions in an article headlined, “FACT CHECK: Ryan takes factual shortcuts in speech,” which included a point-by-point refutation of various claims he made.

LIBERAL MEDIA BIAS!!1!11!ELEVENTY!11!

518 Obdicut  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 10:08:30am

re: #515 Expand Your Ground

Even Adam Smith (in the neglected parts of his Wealth of Nations) wrote that a major role of government is to help ameliorate the sense of alienation felt by workers who take part in a system where they produce only one small component and have no relationship to the product or process as a whole.

If all the financiers, bankers, and CEOs in the world actually read Wealth of Nations and really took it to heart, the world would be a much better place.

519 Hercules Grytpype-Thynne  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 10:08:36am

re: #512 Mostly sane, most of the time.

See, to me, anti-anti-miscengenation means "I won't get in their way, it's their business," while pro-miscegenation means you're actively out matchmaking.

Point taken, but I was responding to the idea that being anti-miscegenation was somehow a point in the Communists' favor.

520 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 10:09:45am

re: #519 Hercules Grytpype-Thynne

Point taken, but I was responding to the idea that being anti-miscegenation was somehow a point in the Communists' favor.

Might be more accurate to say, anti laws prohibiting miscegenation.

521 Obdicut  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 10:09:48am

re: #517 Kragar

I love how the existence of 'fact-checkers' (who are mostly just rebranded MSM outlets) means that the 'traditional media' is ceding all fact-checking territory to them. It's funny as shit, the natural outgrowth of the 'some people say' media.

522 AK-47%  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 10:09:57am

re: #518 Obdicut

If all the financiers, bankers, and CEOs in the world actually read Wealth of Nations and really took it to heart, the world would be a much better place.

"Markets are there to serve the people, people are not there to serve the markets"

-Adam Smith

523 HappyBenghazi  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 10:10:23am

I think the point re:miscegenation was that the CP-USA was opposed to laws that banned interracial marriages. In a neat note, I found out that my grandfather employed Richard Loving of Loving Vs Virginia fame while the Lovings were living in D.C.

524 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 10:10:56am

re: #522 Expand Your Ground

Markets are there to bring me chocolate from places that I will never visit, refined through a process that, individually, we would all find too tedious to undertake.

(Seriously, have you ever looked at what it takes to go from bean to bar?)

525 Kragarghazi  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 10:12:19am

Okay, That’s the Stupidest Thing I Ever Heard

I like Chuck Todd. He’s one of the more knowledgable and sensible people in political journalism. But this has to rank as one of the stupidest things I’ve ever heard anyone say. From this morning on Morning Joe, Todd explains that Democrats wish they had as deep a bench of non-white office-holders as the GOP. “Democrats wish they had the diversity of speakers and deep bench [of the GOP] to show America …”

I mean, just watch. It’s painful. After the jump …

526 AK-47%  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 10:12:28am

re: #524 Mostly sane, most of the time.

Markets are there to bring me chocolate from places that I will never visit, refined through a process that, individually, we would all find too tedious to undertake.

(Seriously, have you ever looked at what it takes to go from bean to bar?)

And when I ask my kids who ate the last of the chocolate, they all say "The invisible hand!"

527 darthstar  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 10:12:40am

Optics fail.

Image: 538553_493126577382547_1142366306_n.jpg

528 Killgore Trout  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 10:12:57am

re: #517 Kragar

Departure From Usual: Traditional Media Call Out Ryan For Factually Dubious Speech

LIBERAL MEDIA BIAS!!1!11!ELEVENTY!11!

It's a nice trend in journalism. I hope it outlasts the election season but the old model or reporting opposing talking points without analysis is just too easy. Reporters will get lazy again soon.

529 HappyBenghazi  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 10:13:01am

re: #527 darthstar

Optics fail.

Image: 538553_493126577382547_1142366306_n.jpg

Oh man.

530 makeitstopghazi  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 10:13:56am

re: #517 Kragar

Departure From Usual: Traditional Media Call Out Ryan For Factually Dubious Speech

LIBERAL MEDIA BIAS!!1!11!ELEVENTY!11!

You think they might try pushing the 'lieberal media' meme to the point where they actually break it this time? Here's hoping.

531 HappyBenghazi  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 10:14:25am

re: #517 Kragar

Departure From Usual: Traditional Media Call Out Ryan For Factually Dubious Speech

LIBERAL MEDIA BIAS!!1!11!ELEVENTY!11!

Good for David Gregory for pointing this out about Ryan:
“He is a man — as I know that you’ve all referred to this — who did vote for the auto bailout, he did vote for TARP, he did vote as well for both wars that were not funded, and he voted for Part D of Medicare, and he’s spent his entire life in government,” Gregory said.

532 Decatur Deb  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 10:14:26am

re: #524 Mostly sane, most of the time.

Markets are there to bring me chocolate from places that I will never visit, refined through a process that, individually, we would all find too tedious to undertake.

(Seriously, have you ever looked at what it takes to go from bean to bar?)

Bought my kid a little volcanic mortar to grind his ridiculous peppers. It was really designed to process cocoa buds, had the instructions. I'll stick with Fox's U-Bet.

533 Kragarghazi  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 10:14:44am

re: #528 Killgore Trout

Jeb Bush: ‘Wrong’ To Suggest Paul Ryan Lied In Acceptance Speech

First, Bush defended Ryan’s assertion that President Obama is to blame for a GM plant that closed in 2008 under President George W. Bush. “Right there at that plant, candidate Obama said: ‘I believe that if our government is there to support you … this plant will be here for another hundred years,’” Ryan said in his speech. “That’s what he said in 2008. Well, as it turned out, that plant didn’t last another year. It is locked up and empty to this day.” But Jeb Bush claimed that this was not “misleading.”

“No not at all,” Bush said. “That’s exactly — those were the words Barack Obama used. It was a campaign promise and it is yet another campaign promise unfulfilled.”

534 sattv4u2  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 10:16:58am

re: #511 Killgore Trout

I Watched Chris Matthews Eat a Sandwich at the RNC

[Embedded content]

I wonder if it gave him a "thrill" going down his throat!?!?

535 makeitstopghazi  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 10:17:00am

re: #524 Mostly sane, most of the time.

Markets are there to bring me chocolate from places that I will never visit, refined through a process that, individually, we would all find too tedious to undertake.

(Seriously, have you ever looked at what it takes to go from bean to bar?)

Man, we got a box of chocolates from this place last night as a house warming gift. Delicious, and they looked almost to good to eat.

536 HappyBenghazi  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 10:17:19am

re: #533 Kragar

Jeb Bush: ‘Wrong’ To Suggest Paul Ryan Lied In Acceptance Speech

So, Jeb Bush is saying that Obama should have intervened in GM's private business and stopped them from closing the plant. Of course, if he did that, Jeb and the usual suspects would accuse Obama of being a mean old government intervention socialist.

537 Varek Raith  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 10:17:35am

re: #535 makeitstop

Man, we got a box of chocolates from this place last night as a house warming gift. Delicious, and they looked almost to good to eat.

Sounds giggity.

538 ShaunP  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 10:17:39am

re: #533 Kragar

Jeb Bush: ‘Wrong’ To Suggest Paul Ryan Lied In Acceptance Speech

The full context of the "hundred years" quote:

Those are the steps we can take to ease the cost crisis facing working families. But we still need to make sure that families are working. We need to maintain our competitive edge in a global by ensuring that plants like this one stay open for another hundred years, and shuttered factories re-open as new industries that promise new jobs. And we need to put more Americans to work doing jobs that need to be done right here in America.

CN: Not a promise...

539 Interesting Times in Benghazi  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 10:18:50am

re: #479 Lidane

[Embedded content]

540 Kragarghazi  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 10:18:56am

Anti-gay activist says Dan Savage's 'days are numbered'; claims it as 'God's justice'

Well, certainly nothing threatening there.
/

541 AK-47%  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 10:19:08am

re: #538 ShaunP

The full context of the "hundred years" quote:

CN: Not a promise...

You didn't close that!

542 makeitstopghazi  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 10:19:57am

re: #527 darthstar

Optics fail.

Image: 538553_493126577382547_1142366306_n.jpg

Beat you to it.

543 Varek Raith  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 10:20:15am

re: #527 darthstar

Optics fail.

Image: 538553_493126577382547_1142366306_n.jpg

Let me guess.
An angry Ron Paul fan was in charge of the layout.
/

544 HappyBenghazi  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 10:20:55am

re: #543 Varek Raith

Let me guess.
An angry Ron Paul fan was in charge of the layout.
/

RON PAUL!

545 Lidane  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 10:21:35am

re: #527 darthstar

Optics fail.

Image: 538553_493126577382547_1142366306_n.jpg

Yes they did.

546 Killgore Trout  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 10:21:58am

re: #534 sattv4u2

I wonder if it gave him a "thrill" going down his throat!?!?

Have you heard from Reine? Is she out of the path of danger?

547 Varek Raith  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 10:22:39am

re: #546 Killgore Trout

Have you heard from Reine? Is she out of the path of danger?

I was just thinking of that.

548 Lidane  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 10:22:52am
549 darthstar  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 10:23:42am

Who knew Jan Brewer loved Obama so much?

Youtube Video
550 sattv4u2  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 10:23:58am

re: #546 Killgore Trout

Have you heard from Reine? Is she out of the path of danger?

From the Queen, about 3 hours ago


I am thankful today that Isaac missed Baron (sic) Rouge. Prayers going out to those in southeast Louisiana and in Mississippi who are suffering through flooded neighborhoods and homes.

551 Varek Raith  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 10:25:12am

re: #548 Lidane

[Embedded content]

Hmm...
Am I in bizarro world?

552 Killgore Trout  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 10:26:13am

re: #550 sattv4u2

From the Queen, about 3 hours ago


I am thankful today that Isaac missed Baron (sic) Rouge. Prayers going out to those in southeast Louisiana and in Mississippi who are suffering through flooded neighborhoods and homes.

Good news. Thanks.

553 Kragarghazi  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 10:26:34am

re: #551 Varek Raith

Hmm...
Am I in bizarro world?

Isaac Caused by God, Gov’t, or Maybe Chemtrails

If you’re been paying much attention to the fairy tales of the far right in the past few years, it should come as no surprise that not everyone thinks it was merely a coincidence that the swirling mass of rain and wind known as Isaac appeared on the radar screen just in time to disrupt the GOP’s nominating party and the news coverage of it.

Rush Limbaugh says Obama may have had something to do with it.

The fabulists at Joseph Farah’s extreme-right WorldNetDaily (WND) think it was the wrath of God.

And a clutch of Web-based antigovernment paranoiacs are sure that “chemtrails” and “chembombs” affected the storm’s path.

554 Lidane  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 10:26:55am

re: #551 Varek Raith

Hmm...
Am I in bizarro world?

Some lies are so blatant even Fox has a hard time bullshitting past them.

555 Varek Raith  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 10:27:19am

re: #553 Kragar

Isaac Caused by God, Gov’t, or Maybe Chemtrails

Oh thank Zod.
Everything is normal.
Carry on!

556 sattv4u2  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 10:28:02am

re: #552 Killgore Trout

Good news. Thanks.

They got lots of rain, no real sustained high winds (an occasional gust) and never lost electricity

557 Kragarghazi  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 10:28:22am

re: #554 Lidane

Some lies are so blatant even Fox has a hard time bullshitting past them.

"Well, you see...what he meant was... ah fuck this, I'm out."

558 HappyBenghazi  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 10:29:19am

DNC is going to be interesting. Have to say though, it would make more sense to me to have the incumbent party have the convention first then the challenging party but whatever.

559 Kragarghazi  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 10:29:56am

re: #555 Varek Raith

"Chemtrails Planet doesn’t bother to explain why the government would want to affect a hurricane’s course – but influential conspiracy theorist Alex Jones had one idea.

“We would be weird to not say it could be government-created as some type of disaster for the election,” Jones said in a video uploaded to YouTube Tuesday. “That’s not outside the realm of possibility.”"

560 sattv4u2  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 10:30:30am

re: #558 HappyWarrior

DNC is going to be interesting. Have to say though, it would make more sense to me to have the incumbent party have the convention first then the challenging party but whatever.

Since the mid 60's (or so), I've never understood why the incumbent party even has a convention if the sitting Prez is in their 1st term

561 HappyBenghazi  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 10:30:55am

re: #559 Kragar

"Chemtrails Planet doesn’t bother to explain why the government would want to affect a hurricane’s course – but influential conspiracy theorist Alex Jones had one idea.

“We would be weird to not say it could be government-created as some type of disaster for the election,” Jones said in a video uploaded to YouTube Tuesday. “That’s not outside the realm of possibility.”"

Even though I'm an advocate for legalizing all drugs, I can see why people want drugs illegal when Alex Jones running amok.

562 simoom  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 10:31:10am

Seems CNN's Don Lemon was none too pleased w/ CNN needing to be prodded into actually reporting on this:

563 Varek Raith  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 10:31:57am

re: #559 Kragar

"Chemtrails Planet doesn’t bother to explain why the government would want to affect a hurricane’s course – but influential conspiracy theorist Alex Jones had one idea.

“We would be weird to not say it could be government-created as some type of disaster for the election,” Jones said in a video uploaded to YouTube Tuesday. “That’s not outside the realm of possibility.”"

So...
Why not use this weather machine for more...substantial gains?

564 HappyBenghazi  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 10:32:11am

re: #560 sattv4u2

Since the mid 60's (or so), I've never understood why the incumbent party even has a convention if the sitting Prez is in their 1st term

Well they do need to make their argument on national TV why they deserve a second chance. Politics is theater after all. In any case, just would make more sense to me if you had the in the WH party going first then the challenging one but they've been doing it this way since Eisenhower got elected and both parties seem fine with it.

565 Lidane  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 10:32:52am

re: #558 HappyWarrior

DNC is going to be interesting. Have to say though, it would make more sense to me to have the incumbent party have the convention first then the challenging party but whatever.

True, but for whatever reason the incumbent party has gone second since 1956. I don't get it either.

566 ShaunP  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 10:33:23am

re: #563 Varek Raith

So...
Why not use this weather machine for more...substantial gains?

Like making it rain in the midwest?

567 dragonfire1981  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 10:33:51am

re: #563 Varek Raith

So...
Why not use this weather machine for more...substantial gains?

Yeah it's not like over HALF THE COUNTRY needs water or anything...

568 Lidane  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 10:34:36am
569 HappyBenghazi  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 10:34:50am

re: #565 Lidane

True, but for whatever reason the incumbent party has gone second since 1956. I don't get it either.

Yeah until 1956, the RNC was always first but they changed it in '56 for some reason. To me it would make more sense to have the incumbent party go first because they're making their case to give them another shot. Giving the challenging party the second gig gives them time to offer a rebuttle. Anyhow, it's really not a big deal. Just my personal observation.

570 darthstar  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 10:35:17am
571 Kragarghazi  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 10:35:40am

re: #563 Varek Raith

SILENCE! YOU CANNOT FATHOM THE DEVIOUS PLANS OF THE GEOENGINEERS AND THEIR CHEMDEVICES!

572 HappyBenghazi  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 10:36:51am

So, Mr. Jones tell us more about the reptilians and why Angelina Jolie is a war criminal while Joseph Kony is a scapegoat.

573 uncah91  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 10:39:56am

re: #517 Kragar

Even Fox News

Seriously. I'm stunned.

574 Kragarghazi  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 10:40:46am

Obama Campaign On Ryan RNC Speech: ‘He Lied’

575 jaunte  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 10:42:09am

The Most Dishonest Convention Speech ... Ever?

"...At least five times, Ryan misrepresented the facts. And while none of the statements were new, the context was. It’s one thing to hear them on a thirty-second television spot or even in a stump speech before a small crowd. It’s something else entirely to hear them in prime time address, as a vice presidential nominee is accepting his party’s nomination and speaking to the entire country.

Here are the five statements that deserve serious scrutiny:"

576 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 10:42:39am

Women Employed by Lawmaker Describe Sexually Hostile Office

Five women who worked for Vito J. Lopez, the assemblyman at the center of a broadening sexual harassment scandal, described in interviews an atmosphere of sexual pressure and crude language in his office, with frequent unwanted advances by him and others, requests for provocative dress, personal questions about their boyfriends and fears of reprisals if they complained.

By their accounts, Mr. Lopez, 71, a Brooklyn Democrat, told some women not to wear bras to work. He requested they wear short skirts and high heels. He gave them cash to buy jewelry and complimented them on their figures, giving special attention to those he called “well endowed.”

He asked about their personal lives, urging them to break up with boyfriends, and berated those women — all of whom were new to politics — who did not compliment him effusively enough, according to several of the women interviewed.

577 danarchy  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 10:43:43am

re: #433 Mostly sane, most of the time.

Um.

I hate to break this to you, but "young people?" Those are bands from the 70's/early 80's.

They weren't fresh and new when I was a teen.

They are right about Ryan's generation. (He's just a few years older than me.)

To the GOP that is young people. More or less what I have in my collection and he is about 5 years older than I am. The GOP has almost no hope at 20 somethings, the youngest they can hope for is 30-40 somethings.

578 HappyBenghazi  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 10:43:43am

re: #575 jaunte

The Most Dishonest Convention Speech ... Ever?

The debates are going to be interesting. Should be amusing to see what pretzel logic Mitt employs tonight.

579 Lidane  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 10:45:53am
581 Benghazzy Ben Ross  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 10:48:39am

'Drink Less, Work More', Billionaire Tells Non-Rich

Gina Rinehart seems to court controversy - from her family lawsuits to her battles with Australian media.

Now, the Australian mining heiress, worth $19 billion dollars and earlier this year thought to be the world's richest woman, has sparked another controversy in her latest column in Australian Resources and Investment magazine. (Yes, I am a registered reader online.) Rinehart rails against class warfare and says the non-rich should stop attacking the rich and go to work.
"There is no monopoly on becoming a millionaire," she writes. "If you're jealous of those with more money, don't just sit there and complain. Do something to make more money yourself - spend less time drinking, or smoking and socializing and more time working."

...

Of course, as Rinehart knows, you can also become very rich from inheriting and expanding your father's company.

582 Killgore Trout  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 10:49:32am

re: #578 HappyWarrior

The debates are going to be interesting. Should be amusing to see what pretzel logic Mitt employs tonight.

Previewing the ‘facts’ in Mitt Romney’s acceptance speech
With this fact checking craze going on he would be smart to make some changes to his usual claims to avoid some bad press. Luckily the Dems have enough time to avoid the same mistakes the Republicans are making. It does seem that the fact checkers have raised enough awareness and I suspect both campaigns are going to start cleaning up a bit.

583 Mattand  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 10:52:22am

re: #479 Lidane

Gym, Tan, Later: MTV announces the end of "Jersey Shore" nyti.ms/RqGxRn

As a resident of NJ, I say "Good riddance."

584 lawhawk  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 10:57:41am

re: #576 NJDhockeyfan

I know of Lopez going back more than 15 years. He's been known as a bully and held tight purse strings on housing projects around NYC and NYS - as a result of his position as Chairman of the Assembly Housing Committee. If you weren't on his good side, you didn't get your bills out of committee. He became Brooklyn's political boss in 2006 when the former boss - Clarence Norman was sent to jail for falsifying records, elections law violations, and theft.

Lopez is also under investigation for shady dealings involving his nonprofit organizations by local, state, and federal law enforcement.

As bad as things are for Lopez - and they're plenty bad - a whole lot more criticism should be sent the way of Speaker Shelly Silver, whose office allowed several secret deals to settle harassment cases. Silver should be tossed out of his position as well. He has no shame and lost whatever moral standing he could potentially claim by going along and signing off on those deals.

It's not the first time that Silver's office looked the other way on harassment claims - up to and including the rape involving his own staffer - Michael Boxley

585 Lidane  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 10:58:25am

re: #583 Mattand

As a resident of NJ, I say "Good riddance."

586 lawhawk  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 10:59:34am

re: #583 Mattand

Or, in an apt use of a Gov. Christie quote - Just get the hell off the beach. Your time is up.

587 makeitstopghazi  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 11:00:21am

re: #574 Kragar

Obama Campaign On Ryan RNC Speech: ‘He Lied’

I love Stephanie Cutter. She is brutal.

588 lawhawk  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 11:01:46am

re: #582 Killgore Trout

Why? The GOP continues peddling the same nonsensical lies and misrepresentations - because it works. There's no reason to think that they'll clean up their act because fact checkers are running overtime.

Ryan made no effort to stay close to the facts. He whistled right past them on the way to outright lie after lie. It was comical to the point that even Fox News had to notice and report on the craziness.

589 Benghazzy Ben Ross  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 11:01:55am

"Legitimate Rape activates the body's natural method for preventing pregnancy."

Youtube Video
590 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 11:03:31am

re: #583 Mattand

As a resident of NJ, I say "Good riddance."

It moved to Pennsylvania a while back...
;)

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

591 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 11:05:59am

re: #448 Kragar

My kids would say Foo Fighters and Iron Maiden.

Because Maiden is always relevant, plus they hear them all the time.

For my 10 year old son, probably the Replacements & Garbage.

592 Mattand  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 11:14:33am

re: #590 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Waste

It moved to Pennsylvania a while back...
;)

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

Amazingly enough, I've actually been there. Stayed at a campground in the area. The Boardwalk consisted of 8 yards of planks and bumper cars made from shopping carts by the Susquehanna. Nice people, though.

593 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 11:25:12am

re: #592 Mattand

Amazingly enough, I've actually been there. Stayed at a campground in the area. The Boardwalk consisted of 8 yards of planks and bumper cars made from shopping carts by the Susquehanna. Nice people, though.

Yea, it's just that "what?!?" moment when you're on I-80 going up and down the hills and suddenly see an exit labeled "Jersey Shore".

:)

594 Obdicut  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 11:28:11am

re: #582 Killgore Trout

I love the way you imply here that the Democrats and GOP are both starting from the same level of dishonestly, but the Democrats have had 'more time' to adjust their statements.

Totally untrue, of course, but nice attempt at framing.

595 Eventual Carrion  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 11:44:50am

re: #540 Kragar

Anti-gay activist says Dan Savage's 'days are numbered'; claims it as 'God's justice'

Well, certainly nothing threatening there.
/

So their god is bad with money (always seems to be asking for more) and also a hitman (or at least contracts with them I guess).


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