The Incredibly Brazen Lies in Paul Ryan’s Speech

Romney campaign: the most dishonest in US history?
Politics • Views: 33,868

The news sites are buzzing today about the incredibly brazen lies in Paul Ryan’s speech last night: The Most Dishonest Convention Speech … Ever?

In an era when the Tea Party, Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Fox News, and a constantly screaming wingnut noise machine have utterly degraded the base and conditioned them to consume hateful rubbish, and the news media seem more interested in keeping the horse race going than performing journalism, has American politics moved into a Twilight Zone where truth is malleable and liars prosper?

Also see
Paul Ryan’s Brazen Lies Paul Ryan’s Speech in 3 Words: Dazzling, Deceiving, Distracting Five Misleading Claims in Paul Ryan’s Convention Speech

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109 comments
1 Benghazzy Ben Ross  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 11:04:33am
The Most Dishonest Convention Speech … Ever?

-The New Republic

Challenge accepted.

-Mitt Romney

2 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 11:09:38am

The usual morons on Twitter are splitting hairs over the Janesville closing, insisting that it happened on Obama's watch since 57 workers continued to fulfill previously placed orders until 4/2009.

3 engineer cat  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 11:10:27am

republicans seem to have given up entirely on the idea of actually presenting any solutions to the nation's problems

i guess it would distract from dumping on obama

4 erik_t  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 11:10:34am

re: #2 Learned Mother of Zion

The usual morons on Twitter are splitting hairs over the Janesville closing, insisting that it happened on Obama's watch since 57 workers continued to fulfill previously placed orders until 4/2009.

Obfuscate with extraneous details until the media moves on to a new cycle.

I wonder if it'll work.

5 Bulworth  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 11:11:15am

Didn't watch it but apparently he made some claim about the closing down of an auto plant in his state (the rest of the auto plants can go to hell of course), reiterated the Medicare lie, and just to pile on, blamed Obama for not passing the Bowles-Simpson plan (a whole host of tax and entitlement changes), which Ryan himself opposed as a member of the Commission, thus preventing the package of proposals from being forwarded to the Congress for an up or down vote. Just in a short night's work.

6 engineer cat  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 11:11:41am

re: #4 erik_t

I wonder if it'll work.

they're the ones who are behind

7 erik_t  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 11:11:43am

re: #5 Bulworth

My very favorite is blaming Obama for the credit downgrade, as if it wasn't the GOP that intentionally forced the downgrade.

8 909Ghazis  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 11:12:03am

Feed The Stupid.

9 HappyBenghazi  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 11:14:20am

The debates are going to be interesting when Ryan tries to pull one of these past Biden.

10 AK-47%  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 11:14:38am

Look, if you believe in Ryan and Mitt and the GOP, then you believe what they say. There is no point in discussing it.

They know that, and that is what they are banking on.

11 Bulworth  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 11:14:47am

re: #7 erik_t

My very favorite is blaming Obama for the credit downgrade, as if it wasn't the GOP that intentionally forced the downgrade.

Yeah, just as failed presidential candidate McCain and the teatards now blame Obama for the looming defense cuts, which wouldn't have been necessary, of course, had the teabag congress just lifted the debt ceiling as they have for all past times. But no, a Last Stand on the Debt was required, resulting in the credit rating drop and the looming automatic budget cuts, which the teabags say they want as long as none of the cuts affect defense. Which they could have prevented if....oh never mind.

12 engineer cat  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 11:15:46am

re: #7 erik_t

My very favorite is blaming Obama for the credit downgrade, as if it wasn't the GOP that intentionally forced the downgrade.

ryan walked out on simpson bowles, but blames obama for not following it, republicans insisted that savings in medicare come out of the existing budget, but they blame obama for "cutting" medicare, republican governors asked for flexibility in welfare, but republicans insist on turning this into "eliminating the work requirement", etc etc etc ad infinitum

lesson: never give in to republican requests: they're just setting you up

13 Gus  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 11:15:50am

The lies and the brazenly stupid defense and spin. Which includes the clueless Twitchy Team trying to say that Janesville closed in April of 2009 and blah, blah, blah. I've never seen such a stupid defense.

14 erik_t  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 11:15:52am

OW THE PERSECUTION

15 makeitstopghazi  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 11:16:01am

I'm seriously wondering if so-called 'journalists' all across the country aren't geniunely conflicted as to how to cover this.

They've never had a situation like this, where the VP candidate from a major party lied so brazenly in his acceptance speech.

They gotta be feeling twinges of conflict on this - though most of them won't be able to recognize that conflict.

16 Gus  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 11:16:34am

re: #14 erik_t

OW THE PERSECUTION

[Embedded content]

Human Events... LOL

17 HappyBenghazi  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 11:16:44am

re: #14 erik_t

OW THE PERSECUTION

[Embedded content]

Waaaah.

18 Lidane  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 11:17:00am

re: #14 erik_t

OW THE PERSECUTION

[Embedded content]

Shorter Erick, Son of Erick:

Why do they keep picking on the white guy?!

19 HappyBenghazi  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 11:17:16am

From what I am hearing, it sounds like Ryan made Palin's 2008 speech look good. That's sad.

20 Interesting Times in Benghazi  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 11:17:56am

Maybe the GOP should see if they can get permission to use this as their theme song?

Youtube Video
21 erik_t  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 11:18:03am

re: #19 HappyWarrior

From what I am hearing, it sounds like Ryan made Palin's 2008 speech look good. That's sad.

Well, he can speak in complete sentences. As an example of the spoken word, it wasn't bad.

It was just orthogonal to reality.

22 engineer cat  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 11:18:25am

Read this and it becomes abundantly clear how the Democrats and media coordinated an attack on Paul Ryan last night:

and i'll bet republicans will say about responses to ryan: "if you're drawing the most flak, you must be over the target"

oh wait - republicans do nothing but attack obama. nevermind

23 HappyBenghazi  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 11:18:59am

re: #21 erik_t

Well, he can speak in complete sentences. As an example of the spoken word, it wasn't bad.

It was just orthogonal to reality.

Heh true I guess. I'm still amazed that this thing is this close.

24 jaunte  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 11:19:01am

re: #14 erik_t

"the Democrats and media coordinated an attack on Paul Ryan"

I was wondering who hypnotized him into proudly blurting our all those easily debunked lies in front of a national audience.

25 Lidane  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 11:19:07am

re: #20 Interesting Times

Maybe the GOP should see if they can get permission to use this as their theme song?

[Embedded content]

Or this:

Youtube Video
26 HappyBenghazi  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 11:19:14am

re: #24 jaunte

I was wondering who hypnotized him into proudly blurting our all those easily debunked lies in front of a national audience.

Koch?

27 Kragarghazi  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 11:19:27am

re: #14 erik_t

OW THE PERSECUTION

[Embedded content]

"A ‘lie’: A truth that Democrats don’t like"

Yeah, right. No bias there.

28 Bulworth  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 11:19:33am

Fortunately the Dem convention comes after this deluge of falsehood, so hopefully enough of the record will be corrected.

29 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 11:19:54am

re: #26 HappyWarrior

Koch?

SOROS!

30 makeitstopghazi  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 11:20:25am

re: #20 Interesting Times

Maybe the GOP should see if they can get permission to use this as their theme song?

[Embedded content]

This one's even better, although Rollins would tell them to go fuck themselves.

Youtube Video
31 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 11:20:58am

re: #29 Learned Mother of Zion

SOROS!

BTW, where the hell is Soros? He should at least match the donations made by Koch & Adelson to the GOP.

32 Gus  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 11:21:43am
33 Bulworth  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 11:22:10am

re: #24 jaunte

I was wondering who hypnotized him into proudly blurting our all those easily debunked lies in front of a national audience.

Yeah but no one is supposed to ask questions about Ryan's "facts", so the mere questioning of their claims constitutes 'bias' and 'persecution'.

34 Lidane  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 11:23:20am

re: #30 makeitstop

This one's even better, although Rollins would tell them to go fuck themselves.

[Embedded content]

True. That would work best, but Henry Rollins would be even less amused than Tom Morello was.

35 Kragarghazi  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 11:23:52am

re: #30 makeitstop

This one's even better, although Rollins would tell them to go fuck themselves.

[Embedded content]

Or this, given their current relationship with the Evangelical movement.

Youtube Video
36 makeitstopghazi  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 11:24:31am

re: #35 Kragar

Or this, given their current relationship with the Evangelical movement.

[Embedded content]

Suicidal! Upding!

37 erik_t  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 11:24:52am

re: #32 Gus

Fox may be irritatingly biased, but CNN must really be counted as the most profoundly inept of the major news networks.

38 jaunte  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 11:25:35am

Ryan criticizes Obama on '08 GM plant closure from before he took office

"I remember President Obama visiting it when he was first running, saying he'll keep that plant open," Ryan said at a campaign stop in Ohio Thursday, recounting the fact that his high school friends worked at the GM assembly plant. "One more broken promise. We used to build Tahoes and Suburbans. One of the reasons that plant got shut down was $4 gasoline. You see, this costs jobs. The president's terrible energy policies are costing us jobs."

In fact, Obama made no such promise and the plant halted production in December 2008, when President George W. Bush was in office.

GM cited the low demand for SUVs and high gas prices during the Bush administration as the reason for closing the plant, but Obama hadn't taken office.

Obama did speak at the plant in February 2008, and suggested that a government partnership with automakers could keep the plant open, but made no promises as Ryan suggested.

"I believe if our government is there to support you, and give you the assistance you need to re-tool and make this transition, that this plant will be here for another hundred years," Obama said.

[Link: www.detroitnews.com...]

39 jaunte  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 11:26:50am

"One of the reasons that plant got shut down was $4 gasoline. You see, this costs jobs. The president's terrible energy policies are costing us jobs."

Under the Ryan rules, this can be construed as a promise to fix the price of gasoline below $4/gal.

40 uncah91  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 11:27:05am

re: #37 erik_t

Fox may be irritatingly biased, but CNN must really be counted as the most profoundly inept of the major news networks.

Yeah, but even Fox News is calling Ryan out.
Sally Kohn has three words for Ryan

On the other hand, to anyone paying the slightest bit of attention to facts, Ryan’s speech was an apparent attempt to set the world record for the greatest number of blatant lies and misrepresentations slipped into a single political speech. On this measure, while it was Romney who ran the Olympics, Ryan earned the gold.

(repost from downstairs)

41 Lidane  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 11:27:21am

re: #35 Kragar

Or this, given their current relationship with the Evangelical movement.

[Embedded content]

Shorter RNC:

Youtube Video
42 Daniel Ballard  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 11:27:46am

re: #32 Gus

With a crack plagiarist, er I mean journalist like Fareed Zakaria on the job, what could go wrong? This answers why fact checks are done by separate divisions or totally indy organizations. (Politifact and factcheck)

Since the regular news shows won't do it, the fact checkers fill the void, MSM connected or not.

43 aagcobb  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 11:28:36am

re: #13 Gus

The lies and the brazenly stupid defense and spin. Which includes the clueless Twitchy Team trying to say that Janesville closed in April of 2009 and blah, blah, blah. I've never seen such a stupid defense.

That is idiotic. Even if it did "close" in April 2009, that was less than three months into Obama's term, so its not like he could have magically stopped the Bush Recession in its tracks by then.

44 Bulworth  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 11:30:40am

re: #43 aagcobb

That is idiotic. Even if it did "close" in April 2009, that was less than three months into Obama's term, so its not like he could have magically stopped the Bush Recession in its tracks by then.

And the head of today's "Turnaround Team" wanted American auto companies to "go bankrupt" anyway.

45 Gus  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 11:31:09am

re: #43 aagcobb

That is idiotic. Even if it did "close" in April 2009, that was less than three months into Obama's term, so its not like he could have magically stopped the Bush Recession in its tracks by then.

The closure was announced on June 3, 2008. As Alouette said they were just closing out the line and completing contract obligations for I believe Isuzu.

46 Feline Emperor of the Conservative Tears  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 11:31:13am

re: #43 aagcobb

That is idiotic. Even if it did "close" in April 2009, that was less than three months into Obama's term, so its not like he could have magically stopped the Bush Recession in its tracks by then.

If Obama prayed enough to the right God of course he could have.
//// :p

47 Gus  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 11:31:57am

But Obama "saved" GM. So it really is a very twisted analogy and example by Ryan.

48 Big Steve  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 11:32:19am

So what was that hurumphing or throat clearing I kept hearing out of Ryan when applause was going and the camera was panning the crowd?

49 erik_t  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 11:32:24am

re: #43 aagcobb

That is idiotic. Even if it did "close" in April 2009, that was less than three months into Obama's term, so its not like he could have magically stopped the Bush Recession in its tracks by then.

Scheduled closure was announced in 2008. Wait, you mean they don't just flip a switch and implode the building!?

50 HappyBenghazi  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 11:32:54am

Ryan really is a piece of work. He's so perfect for Mitt.

51 simoom  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 11:33:04am

It's also worth noting that Ryan hacked the middle out of the Janesville Obama quote, without mentioning it to his audience:

[Link: www.mediaite.com...]

What’s really beautiful about this lie, though, is what President Obama actually said at that plant, and what Paul Ryan said at around the same time. CNN dug up the passage in question, from then-Sen. Obama’s February 13, 2008, speech at that plant. “I believe that if our government is there to support you, and give you the assistance you need to re-tool and make this transition, that this plant will be here for another hundred years,” Obama said.

In a letter to GM a few months later, Ryan (along with Wisconsin’s two US Senators) requested a meeting with the company to “discuss GM’s plans for the Janesville plant, including the possibility of retooling the plant for different production lines.”

So, not only did President Obama have nothing to do with the closing of the Janesville plant, Paul Ryan actually agreed with him, verbatim, that retooling the plant would save it, and offered his support and assistance, as a member of the government, to acheive that.

Here's the relevant bit from Ryan's convention speech -- note the ellipses in the transcript:

A lot of guys I went to high school with worked at that GM plant. Right there at that plant, candidate Obama said: ‘I believe that if our government is there to support you … this plant will be here for another hundred years.’ That’s what he said in 2008.

52 erik_t  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 11:33:36am

re: #44 Bulworth

And the head of today's "Turnaround Team" wanted American auto companies to "go bankrupt" anyway.

That is absolutely, by far, the funniest part about this. No matter which way you flip the flop, the statement is either a lie or a complete repudiation of Ryanomney's own deep-seated Randian philosophy.

53 Lidane  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 11:34:17am

re: #49 erik_t

Scheduled closure was announced in 2008. Wait, you mean they don't just flip a switch and implode the building!?

In Greater Wingnuttia, plant closures are instant. Like ramen noodles.

54 HappyBenghazi  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 11:35:01am

re: #52 erik_t

That is absolutely, by far, the funniest part about this. No matter which way you flip the flop, the statement is either a lie or a complete repudiation of Ryanomney's own deep-seated Randian philosophy.

Yep.

55 danarchy  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 11:35:07am

re: #13 Gus

The lies and the brazenly stupid defense and spin. Which includes the clueless Twitchy Team trying to say that Janesville closed in April of 2009 and blah, blah, blah. I've never seen such a stupid defense.

Lawrence O'donnell mentioned this on air last night, but Ryan worded everything in a lawyerly way. He made statements about the Janesville plant all of which were technically true and left the listener to infer Obama's fault.

Then he goes on to talk about similar closings all over the country and asks where the promised recovery was. It is shady and misleading but not technically a straight up lie.

56 Bulworth  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 11:35:16am

re: #52 erik_t

That is absolutely, by far, the funniest part about this. No matter which way you flip the flop, the statement is either a lie or a complete repudiation of Ryanomney's own deep-seated Randian philosophy.

Yeah, same thing with the Medicare cuts. They want to cut Medicare and other income support programs but blame Obama when he does it.

And yet I read a headline on Yahoo.com something to the effect of voters thinking Ryan's a "straight shooter". We're doomed.

57 HappyBenghazi  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 11:37:00am

re: #56 Bulworth

Yeah, same thing with the Medicare cuts. They want to cut Medicare and other income support programs but blame Obama when he does it.

And yet I read a headline on Yahoo.com something to the effect of voters thinking Ryan's a "straight shooter". We're doomed.

Yeah, I don't get it.

58 aagcobb  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 11:37:07am

re: #10 Expand Your Ground

Look, if you believe in Ryan and Mitt and the GOP, then you believe what they say. There is no point in discussing it.

They know that, and that is what they are banking on.

But that's not enough people to win the election. They have to get some undecided votes as well. Romney is going to have to perform well in the debates to convince enough voters in the swing states that he can be trusted with the presidency.

59 aagcobb  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 11:38:35am

re: #57 HappyWarrior

Yeah, I don't get it.

That's what the media has been telling them; that Ryan's the adult who is telling the hard truths about the budget.

60 HappyBenghazi  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 11:39:22am

re: #59 aagcobb

That's what the media has been telling them; that Ryan's the adult who is telling the hard truths about the budget.

Yeah well I'm Santa Claus then. Ryan's a bs artist. As David Gregory pointed out last night, he voted for many of these items that added to the debt.

61 Interesting Times in Benghazi  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 11:39:55am
62 Charles Johnson  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 11:40:09am
63 jaunte  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 11:41:33am

re: #51 simoom

The Breitbart Candidate.

64 Gus  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 11:41:52am
65 Gus  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 11:42:05am
66 aagcobb  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 11:42:12am

re: #60 HappyWarrior

Yeah well I'm Santa Claus then. Ryan's a bs artist. As David Gregory pointed out last night, he voted for many of these items that added to the debt.

And the Ryan budget is a pure fantasy.

67 engineer cat  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 11:43:00am

re: #48 Big Steve

So what was that hurumphing or throat clearing I kept hearing out of Ryan when applause was going and the camera was panning the crowd?

he certainly seems to have some kind of verbal tic that bothers him when he's lying too strenuously

69 makeitstopghazi  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 11:44:14am

re: #41 Lidane

Shorter RNC:

[Embedded content]

Bad Religion! Upding!!

70 AK-47%  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 11:44:25am

re: #58 aagcobb

But that's not enough people to win the election. They have to get some undecided votes as well. Romney is going to have to perform well in the debates to convince enough voters in the swing states that he can be trusted with the presidency.

I assume he is being coached mercilessly to produce at least something like a Reaganesque "there you go again" moment that they can sell as a major "win".

Having a background of lies and half-truths already in place will be the equivalent of setting trip wires.

71 HappyBenghazi  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 11:44:34am

re: #68 Kragar

Buster Wilson: God is using Hurricane Isaac to Punish New Orleans for LGBT Festival

Fucking asshole.

72 Gus  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 11:45:06am

Forget Clint.

73 HappyBenghazi  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 11:45:54am

re: #72 Gus

Forget Clint.

As the mystery speaker?

74 Gus  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 11:46:54am

re: #73 HappyWarrior

As the mystery speaker?

Word's out that it's probably him. So forget him as in he can take his half-assed acting and go away.

75 dragonath  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 11:48:03am

BIG HOLLYWOOD

76 HappyBenghazi  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 11:48:07am

re: #74 Gus

Word's out that it's probably him. So forget him as in he can take his half-assed acting and go away.

Ah gotcha. I like his movies but his social commentary is idiotic.

77 erik_t  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 11:48:14am

re: #68 Kragar

Buster Wilson: God is using Hurricane Isaac to Punish New Orleans for LGBT Festival

You'd think he'd punish it with, I dunno, a tornado or something. Some sort of cosmic action that didn't also blow the shit out of Mississippi and the rest of Louisiana, neither of which have any real cultural commonality with NOLA.

But He seems to be notoriously unconcerned with a spotty aim.

78 engineer cat  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 11:49:46am

re: #72 Gus

Forget Clint.

a party of actors and priests

79 darthstar  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 11:49:50am

That's good...the GOP needs a grumpy old white guy to get up and speak. John McCain's dinner hour war cry fell flat last night.

80 HappyBenghazi  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 11:49:51am

You don't get to claim your God is a loving God if you're making him so upset over gay pride rallies that he's willing to kill innocent people.

81 erik_t  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 11:50:10am

Heh.

“Voters are not looking for detailed budget blueprints. They want to know what your principles are,” senior Romney adviser Kevin Madden said. “But he will offer some more specifics in the debates — which is often where these things come out — under direct questioning on specific issues.”

Then either way, um... ur doin it rong.

82 Girth  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 11:51:18am

re: #68 Kragar

Buster Wilson: God is using Hurricane Isaac to Punish New Orleans for LGBT Festival

Ah, the good ole' "God is using [natural disaster or epidemic] to punish [group of people that I'm not a member of] for [behavior I don't approve of]" line.

83 Gus  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 11:51:26am

re: #76 HappyWarrior

Ah gotcha. I like his movies but his social commentary is idiotic.

Serial womanizer.

84 dragonath  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 11:51:54am

Yahoo or the Onion? You decide:

'He's a straight shooter': Voters react to Ryan's speech

85 HappyBenghazi  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 11:52:41am

re: #83 Gus

Serial womanizer.

More family values.

86 Kragarghazi  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 11:52:41am

Just remember, we're supposed to disregard any actor or entertainer because their opinion is hopelessly skewed by their Hollywood background, unless of course they support the GOP, in which case they become brave truth tellers.

88 jaunte  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 11:53:12am

Speaking of brazen lies:

The Federal Bailout That Saved Mitt Romney
Government documents prove the candidate's mythology is just that

"...government documents on the bailout obtained by Rolling Stone show that the legend crafted by Romney is basically a lie. The federal records, obtained under the Freedom of Information Act, reveal that Romney's initial rescue attempt at Bain & Company was actually a disaster – leaving the firm so financially strapped that it had "no value as a going concern." Even worse, the federal bailout ultimately engineered by Romney screwed the FDIC – the bank insurance system backed by taxpayers – out of at least $10 million. And in an added insult, Romney rewarded top executives at Bain with hefty bonuses at the very moment that he was demanding his handout from the feds.

You taxpayers built that bonus.

89 aagcobb  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 11:53:19am

re: #83 Gus

Serial womanizer.

Can you imagine the scorn the Right would heap on the Democrats if, say, George Clooney gave a convention speech?

90 Gus  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 11:53:20am

re: #85 HappyWarrior

More family values.

I am currently driving a bus!

//

91 HappyBenghazi  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 11:53:29am

Really though, Clint Eastwood? As I said I like his movies but what a weird choice if you're trying to claim you're all about the future.

92 darthstar  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 11:54:18am
93 HappyBenghazi  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 11:54:27am

re: #89 aagcobb

Can you imagine the scorn the Right would heap on the Democrats if, say, George Clooney gave a convention speech?

Damn Hollywood liberals. But yeah I always found it funny that the right whines about Hollywood lefties when their hero was an actor before he got into politics.

94 engineer cat  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 11:54:44am

re: #81 erik_t

Heh.

“Voters are not looking for detailed budget blueprints. They want to know what your principles are,” senior Romney adviser Kevin Madden said. “But he will offer some more specifics in the debates — which is often where these things come out — under direct questioning on specific issues.”

Then either way, um... ur doin it rong.

A Republican source familiar with Ryan's speech told CNN it will "deconstruct" the Obama agenda, with particular focus on the fiscal issues that are the congressman's strength, such as the national debt, stimulus spending and his proposed Medicare reforms, which have come under attack by Obama and Democrats. According to the source, Ryan wants to be an attack dog in

"You will get plenty of substance any time Paul Ryan speaks," Sen. Marco Rubio of Florida told reporters.

the republican ticket promises it will begin to think about starting to describe its policies very soon now

maybe even before the election

95 aagcobb  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 11:55:40am

re: #91 HappyWarrior

Really though, Clint Eastwood? As I said I like his movies but what a weird choice if you're trying to claim you're all about the future.

But their actual voter base is not much younger than Clint.

96 HappyBenghazi  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 11:56:35am

re: #95 aagcobb

But their actual voter base is not much younger than Clint.

True that. Just amused that it's him after all the hype about their special guest. Well it's not official yet but it looks like it is.

97 aagcobb  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 11:59:01am

re: #94 engineer cat

the republican ticket promises it will begin to think about starting to describe its policies very soon now

maybe even before the election

Details are dangerous. People love a balanced budget in principle. Telling them which programs will be gutted can only create opposition.

98 CuriousLurker  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 11:59:05am

The thing that bothers me most is that these hucksters have the gall to claim the mantle of noble keepers of (faith-based) morality, and have referred to themselves as values voters, the moral majority, etc.

Where in in the HELL do they get the unmitigated effrontery to sanctimoniously invoke God and prayer, pointing their fingers at others' ethics while they stand there sowing discord and shamelessly telling lies in front of their family, nation, and the God they claim to so dearly love, respect, and want to defend?

These people aren't Christian in any meaningful sense of the word, they're sleazy amoral grifters lusting after temporal power, wealth, and fame. If there were ever practitioners of so called taqiyya, these people are the absolute masters of it. They're beyond contempt.

99 HappyBenghazi  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 12:01:09pm

re: #98 CuriousLurker

The thing that bothers me most is that these hucksters have the gall to claim the mantle of noble keepers of (faith-based) morality, and have referred to themselves as values voters, the moral majority, etc.

Where in in the HELL do they get the unmitigated effrontery to sanctimoniously invoke God and prayer, pointing their fingers at others' ethics while they stand there sowing discord and shamelessly telling lies in front of their family, nation, and the God they claim to so dearly love, respect, and want to defend?

These people aren't Christian in any meaningful sense of the word, they're sleazy amoral grifters lusting after temporal power, wealth, and fame. If there were ever practitioners of so called taqiyya, these people are the absolute masters of it. They're beyond contempt.

That's what upsets me too CL. They act like conservatives are exampifiers of moral virtue while liberals are immoral heathens. Really pisses me off knowing that my quite liberal grandparents were married for 43 years and took very seriously that till death due us part of wedding vows. Something that assholes like Gingrich and others wouldn't know if bit them in the ass. But as I recall from Edith Wharton's The Age of Innocence, the people who talk about morals the best are moral hypocrites themselves.

100 jaunte  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 12:02:20pm

Greg Sargent:

Many news outlets have done a good job in debunking the falsehoods and distortions in Paul Ryan’s speech. That said, you should watch this video compilation that TPM has posted, in which news anchors just don’t seem all that bothered by Ryan’s dishonesty, or even try to explain away the importance or significance of it:

[Link: www.washingtonpost.com...]

It’s probably not fair to say this is representative, but it’s pretty eye-opening stuff. You really have to love the tone of surprise some of these folks bring to the idea that Ryan just might have been less than truthful here and there. Haven’t they been paying attention to this campaign at all?

101 CuriousLurker  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 12:03:39pm

re: #99 HappyWarrior

That's what upsets me too CL. They act like conservatives are exampifiers of moral virtue while liberals are immoral heathens. Really pisses me off knowing that my quite liberal grandparents were married for 43 years and took very seriously that till death due us part of wedding vows. Something that assholes like Gingrich and others wouldn't know if bit them in the ass. But as I recall from Edith Wharton's The Age of Innocence, the people who talk about morals the best are moral hypocrites themselves.

QFT. It just makes me so mad I could spit. Gah! I hope America sees through these assholes and and tosses them out.

102 HappyBenghazi  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 12:05:45pm

re: #101 CuriousLurker

QFT. It just makes me so mad I could spit. Gah! I hope America sees through these assholes and and tosses them out.

It amuses and angers me. You hear a guy like Gingrich saying that our morals have lapsed since we've allowed gays to marry and adopt. And then you look at his own life and marital infidelity and you feel both amusement because who is this guy but also anger and disgust because I know gay and lesbian couples and they deserve better than to be cheap political fodder for a political con man like Newt Gingrich.

103 Lidane  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 12:19:30pm
104 Ming  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 12:40:08pm

Until the news media start acting like Journalists again, and call out these lies in clear and appropriate language, Romney and Ryan have nothing to worry about.

105 Daniel Ballard  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 1:12:11pm

re: #101 CuriousLurker

The best argument this year in favor of the fact checkers is the advice from the GOP to ignore them. We can have our arguments about how Politifact carries the Tampa/Miami newspaper logos and what that means or doesn't. We argue about Pants on Fire, Lie of the Year. I get that. I think I did a few dozen comments on a couple occasions doing exactly that.

But at the end of the day we really should acknowledge these sites and similar do a very valuable service to us voters. We should also beat up the news shows and journalists for not doing all that already. Since that is not happening-My advice is read the heck out of the fact check sites, all you can get. if the GOP fears them, we need them.

106 robertmalthus  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 1:14:37pm

Obama did not promise to stop the GM plant from closing. Rather he promised to help the auto industry and manufacturing workers in general by first, improving the economy, and second, assisting struggling industrial companies (“I believe that if our government is there to support you, and give you the assistance you need to re-tool and make this transition, that this (General Motors) plant will be here for another hundred years").

The whole thrust of Obama's 2008 Janesville speech was a promise to help the workers he was addressing. And his promise was, in fact, broken.

The decision to stop production at the plant was made in June 2008, the actual lay-off of 2000 workers occurred in December 2008. The plant didn't "close down" at that time, it simply stopped producing vehicles. Nothing prevented restarting the plant and rehiring the workers when Obama came into office one month later. In fact, the plant was in the running for new production until six months later (from the Janesville Gazette, Friday, June 26, 2009: "Gov. Jim Doyle says Wisconsin offered a "very strong" incentive package to get General Motors to locate subcompact production in Janesville, and says he's deeply disappointed the automaker picked its Orion, Mich. plant for the work.")

But Obama did nothing to assist the Janesville plant or any other. Under Obama, the government picks winners and losers. Obama promised Janesville and manufacturing in general would be a winner even as his economic policies guaranteed it would always be a loser. ("When I talk about real change that will make a real difference in the lives of working families, it’s not just the poll-tested rhetoric of a political campaign. It’s the cause of my life. And you can be sure that it will be the cause of my presidency from the very first day I take office.”)

So the claim that Ryan lied is false.

The statement in the Fox News article, "While Ryan blamed President Obama for the shut down of a GM plant in Janesville, Wisconsin, the plant was actually closed under President George W. Bush" falsely implies that the plant permanently shut down when in fact it stopped production in the last month of Bush's term, still capable of being restarted if Obama had actually kept his promise. It also falsely implies that the promise Obama made became inactive on the day the plant stopped production. How absurd is that? He promised to help the GM workers and all workers for the four years of his term. Which he plainly failed to do.

The Ryan statement is pure fact: "When he [Obama] talked about change, many people liked the sound of it, especially in Janesville, where we were about to lose a major factory. A lot of guys I went to high school with worked at that GM plant. Right there at that plant, candidate Obama said: 'I believe that if our government is there to support you, this plant will be here for another hundred years.' That's what he said in 2008. Well, as it turned out, that plant didn't last another year. It is locked up and empty to this day."

107 JamesWI  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 3:09:11pm

re: #106 robertmalthus


Dead-thread sock-puppet hero!

Obama said he wanted to help the plant. Therefore, he should have had the ability to retroactively reopen a plant that closed before he ever got into office!

108 Charles Johnson  Thu, Aug 30, 2012 3:43:19pm

re: #107 JamesWI

Dead-thread sock-puppet hero!

Strange how all the talking points sound exactly like the posts at right wing blogs.

109 Obdicut  Sat, Sep 1, 2012 2:13:44pm

re: #106 robertmalthus

Ryan put out a press release about the closing of the factory, saying he was hopeful that they might be able to find something else but, as it stood, they were closing.


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