Wingnut Nontroversy of the Day: ‘Obama’s 9-11 Proclamation Does Not Mention God’

Neither did Pres. George W. Bush (R) for the years 2002, 2003, 2006, 2007, and 2008.
Gus
Wingnuts • Views: 36,157

Today’s wingnut outrageous outrage of the day comes to you by way of the ever-confused Todd Starnes of Fox News. It involves the exclusion of the word “God” in “Presidential Proclamation — Patriot Day and National Day of Service and Remembrance, 2012.” This was followed up by an even more hysterical pseudo-religious rant from the ever-seething Pat Dollard.

Behold the announcement from Todd Starnes:

“Does not mention God!” Fear the atheism! This of course led me to wonder: what would a Republican do? What did George W. Bush do during his 8 long years as president?

Todd Starnes - Obama Derangement Sufferer

The answer was rather quick to find at Wikipedia in the Patriot Day entry.

It turns out that George W. Bush did not mention God for his “Presidential Proclamation—Patriot Day and National Day of Service and Remembrance” for 5 of 8 such proclamations — meaning that the majority of these proclamations did not include the word “God.”

He mentioned it in the initial proclamation in 2001, and in the years 2004 and 2005.

George W. Bush does not mention God in 2002.

George W. Bush does not mention God in 2003.

George W. Bush does not mention God in 2006.

George W. Bush does not mention God in 2007.

George W. Bush does not mention God in 2008.

Starnes also says, “President Obama’s proclamation marking the September 11th terrorist attacks did not include any mention of God. The president also failed to note how Americans sought solace in their religion in the aftermath of the Al-Qaeda attacks.”

On his last year in office you will find that Bush did exactly the same — in addition to not mentioning God 5 times while in office.

I offer the following alternative headline.

Sept 10, 2008 BREAKING: Bush’s 9-11 Proclamation Does Not Mention God

President Bush’s proclamation marking the September 11th terrorist attacks did not include any mention of God. The president also failed to note how Americans sought solace in their religion in the aftermath of the Al-Qaeda attacks.

Let’s put it up on the screen:

H/T:

Jump to bottom

215 comments
1 Iwouldprefernotto  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 6:27:49pm

Even god couldn't get these religious nutjobs to shut the F up.

2 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 6:28:42pm

Nice smackdown, Gus.

3 Shiplord Kirel  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 6:28:43pm

The GOP is truly howling in the wilderness now.

4 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 6:30:44pm

Wow. Clicked on one of the ads on the site.

This is a doozy.

[Link: www.traditionalvalues.us...]

5 b_sharp  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 6:31:37pm

Nicely done Gus.

6 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 6:31:54pm

re: #3 Shiplord Kirel

The GOP is truly howling in the wilderness now.

Except that Todd Starnes does not work for the GOP and Fox News and the GOP are not an interchangeable joint entity.

7 Sophia77  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 6:33:27pm

This is getting kinda crazy, you know?

8 Shiplord Kirel  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 6:35:54pm

re: #4 SanFranciscoZionist

Wow. Clicked on one of the ads on the site.

This is a doozy.

[Link: www.traditionalvalues.us...]

That Onion parody of a satanic Obama rousing the heathen Democratic masses wasn't far from the mark at all.

9 dragonath  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 6:36:12pm

Iowa: Chris Christie to Campaign for Steve King

And they call this guy a moderate why?

10 Irving  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 6:36:12pm

Um.... maybe you should explain that to John Bolton, Elaine Chao, Walid Phares, and Pete Snyder. They seem confused.

[Link: mediamatters.org...]

11 b_sharp  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 6:36:19pm

re: #6 Dark_Falcon

Except that Todd Starnes does not work for the GOP and Fox News and the GOP are not an interchangeable joint entity.

Fox news is the unofficial spokes media for the GOP.

12 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 6:38:06pm

re: #7 Sophia77

This is getting kinda crazy, you know?

Go back and read up on 19th century elections. This is nothing.

13 Kragar  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 6:38:24pm

Apparently the Gods of PCs decided I needed a new video card.

14 The Ghost of a Flea  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 6:39:28pm

re: #10 Irving

Um.... maybe you should explain that to John Bolton, Elaine Chao, Walid Phares, and Pete Snyder. They seem confused.

[Link: mediamatters.org...]

They let David Barton write the GOP platform.

Romney himself is selling the "They'll take God off the money!" variant of this.

Not an isolated incident.

15 BongCrodny  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 6:41:56pm

re: #6 Dark_Falcon

Except that Todd Starnes does not work for the GOP and Fox News and the GOP are not an interchangeable joint entity.

Nudge nudge, wink wink.

16 b_sharp  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 6:43:57pm

Slightly OT.

Here is a comparison of the unemployment rate and highest tier tax rate. I added oil and gold just to see if there was a discernible pattern. Needless to say, I normalized the bases so they would all show on the same chart.

1980 - 2012 Comparison

There looks to be no correlation between tax rate and the number of jobs.

17 Shiplord Kirel  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 6:44:04pm

re: #6 Dark_Falcon

Except that Todd Starnes does not work for the GOP and Fox News and the GOP are not an interchangeable joint entity.

Starnes is a prominent and active proponent of GOP positions. He is widely followed by the Republican base. Few, if any, influential Republicans are employees of the party.

18 Killgore Trout  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 6:44:10pm

Maybe he should have mentioned Allah.

19 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 6:44:16pm

God.

Youtube Video
20 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 6:45:13pm

re: #11 b_sharp

Fox news is the unofficial spokes media for the GOP.

And I could argue that MSNBC is the unofficial spokes media for the Democratic Party as well. But even so we don't hold Nancy Pelosi to blame if Ed Schultz drops a DERP-bomb.

21 Coracle  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 6:45:22pm

From downstairs:

Number of times "God" is written in the US constitution: 0
Number of times "Creator" is written in the US constitution: 0
Number of times "Church" is written in the US constitution: 0
Number of times "Religion" is written in the US constitution: 1
("Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or
prohibiting the free exercise thereof")
Number of times "Faith" is written in the US constitution: 1
("Full Faith and Credit shall be given in each State to the public Acts")

22 BongCrodny  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 6:48:52pm

This may not have much weight coming from an agnostic, but considering that God didn't lift so much as an almighty finger to stop 9/11 from happening, why would you even mention Him in the 9/11 proclamation?

23 wrenchwench  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 6:49:14pm

Typo or time warp?

Sept 10, 2018 BREAKING: Bush’s 9-11...

Nice Page as always, Gus.

24 The Ghost of a Flea  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 6:50:22pm

re: #20 Dark_Falcon

And I could argue that MSNBC is the unofficial spokes media for the Democratic Party as well. But even so we don't hold Nancy Pelosi to blame if Ed Schultz drops a DERP-bomb.

Mitt Romney Pushes "They're Taking God Off Our Money" Conspiracy Theory In Virginia

25 Hercules Grytpype-Thynne  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 6:51:36pm
Sept 10, 2018 BREAKING: Bush’s 9-11 Proclamation Does Not Mention God

If Bush is President again in 2018 I'm definitely moving to Canada this time.

26 Kragar  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 6:51:46pm

re: #13 Kragar

Apparently the Gods of PCs decided I needed a new video card.

And I see any hope of gaming has died until I get my new card this weekend.

sigh.

27 BongCrodny  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 6:52:54pm

re: #25 Hercules Grytpype-Thynne

If Bush is President again in 2018 I'm definitely moving to Canada this time.

"Hey, Rocky -- watch me pull another Bush presidency out of my hat!"

"But that trick never works."

28 MittDoesNotCompute  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 6:53:10pm

re: #6 Dark_Falcon

Except that Todd Starnes does not work for the GOP and Fox News and the GOP are not an interchangeable joint entity.

Is that so? The two might as well be joined at the hip, with all of the GOP high-rollers that Fox News has had in their "regular guest contributor" stable over the past couple of years, at least (Palin, Huckabee, etc.).

You bring up Ed Schultz and MSNBC, but you know damn well that he is not necessarily representative of the current Democratic Party and their positions. However, Republicans like Palin and Huckabee are fairly representative of the GOP's stance on more than a few issues.

Try again...

29 Sheila Broflovski  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 6:54:17pm

re: #4 SanFranciscoZionist

Wow. Clicked on one of the ads on the site.

This is a doozy.

[Link: www.traditionalvalues.us...]

I had to, just had to fill out the survey with all "Yes" answers I WANT THE RADICAL HOMOSEXUAL AGENDA SHOVED DOWN EVERYONE'S THROATS and then signed it Big Gay Al, South Park, CO.

30 Shiplord Kirel  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 6:54:23pm

re: #20 Dark_Falcon

And I could argue that MSNBC is the unofficial spokes media for the Democratic Party as well. But even so we don't hold Nancy Pelosi to blame if Ed Schultz drops a DERP-bomb.

Why not? Pelosi does not work for the Democratic party and Congress is not interchangeable with it. Yet she is definitely representative of the party as presently constituted.
If Schultz's derp bomb were consistent with, and supportive of, a prominent Democratic party meme, and if it were well received among the Dem masses, then I think it would be fair to attribute it to the party generally.

31 BongCrodny  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 6:54:46pm

re: #19 Cannadian Club Akbar

God.

[Embedded content]

If they ever make a movie of the comic book series Preacher, I want Seth MacFarlane to direct it.

32 Sheila Broflovski  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 6:55:07pm

re: #31 BongCrodny

If they ever make a movie of the comic book series Preacher, I want Seth MacFarlane to direct it.

Matt and Trey!

33 Kronocide  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 6:55:20pm

re: #20 Dark_Falcon

And I could argue that MSNBC is the unofficial spokes media for the Democratic Party as well. But even so we don't hold Nancy Pelosi to blame if Ed Schultz drops a DERP-bomb.

You could, but how well? You could argue anything, doesn't mean the argument will withstand scrutiny.

I'd love to hear your favorite top 3 from each network and pick the top 3 instances of complete and shameless plugging. Slice it any way want to.

Then we can argue whether the amount and intensity of biased information is anywhere near equivalent.

34 danarchy  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 6:55:41pm

re: #25 Hercules Grytpype-Thynne

If Bush is President again in 2018 I'm definitely moving to Canada this time.

It isn't completely unthinkable that Jeb could make a run in 2016...

35 Kragar  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 6:56:22pm

re: #31 BongCrodny

If they ever make a movie of the comic book series Preacher, I want Seth MacFarlane to direct it.

Tarantino

36 Lidane  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 6:56:51pm

re: #9 dragonath

Iowa: Chris Christie to Campaign for Steve King

And they call this guy a moderate why?

Because shut up, that's why!

Why do you hate America?

///

37 Sionainn  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 6:57:01pm

re: #4 SanFranciscoZionist

Wow. Clicked on one of the ads on the site.

This is a doozy.

[Link: www.traditionalvalues.us...]

I filled it out and sent it back to them. LOL.

38 Shiplord Kirel  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 6:57:49pm

re: #25 Hercules Grytpype-Thynne

If Bush is President again in 2018 I'm definitely moving to Canada this time.

Maybe they mean Bush the Elder, even though he will be 94 in 2018. He is still eligible since he served only one term, while W served two and is out of the POTUS business.

39 Daniel Ballard  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 6:58:37pm

re: #38 Shiplord Kirel

Ya still got Jeb. Younger and no wars on his watch.

40 BongCrodny  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 6:58:51pm

re: #32 Learned Mother of Zion

Matt and Trey!

LOL. I'm trying to picture the Saint of Killers done South Park style.

41 Kragar  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 6:59:06pm

re: #36 Lidane

///

Image: chris-christie-.jpg

I love my baby back, baby back, baby back... ribs.

42 BongCrodny  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 7:00:31pm

re: #35 Kragar

Tarantino

I like you. You dream big.

43 Lidane  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 7:00:35pm

re: #29 Learned Mother of Zion

I had to, just had to fill out the survey with all "Yes" answers I WANT THE RADICAL HOMOSEXUAL AGENDA SHOVED DOWN EVERYONE'S THROATS and then signed it Big Gay Al, South Park, CO.

Sounds like a plan. Heh.

44 aagcobb  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 7:00:47pm

re: #34 danarchy

It isn't completely unthinkable that Jeb could make a run in 2016...

In fact, the slogan for the Daily Show's coverage of the RNC was "The Road to Jeb Bush 2016."

45 Daniel Ballard  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 7:01:29pm

re: #16 b_sharp

Looks like there was a correlation for the first third, then other factors prevailed as the economy changed. The spike in gold, oil and unemployment point to a separate economic problem than taxes.

46 Gus  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 7:02:28pm

re: #2 Dark_Falcon

Nice smackdown, Gus.

re: #5 b_sharp

Nicely done Gus.

Thanks! Thought this latest case of Obama derangement deserved a page. Think they'll update their posts with this new information?

Update: Turns out, Bush also didn't mention "God" in 5 out of 8 of his Patriot Day Proclamations.

[Crickets]

47 Lidane  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 7:03:41pm

re: #31 BongCrodny

If they ever make a movie of the comic book series Preacher, I want Seth MacFarlane to direct it.

Tarantino. Or John Woo.

48 Varek Raith  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 7:04:08pm

Osama Bin Laden was unavailable for comment.

49 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 7:04:57pm

re: #47 Lidane

Tarantino. Or John Woo.

If it's animated, it would be better if it were Tarantino. He did have part of Kill Bill animated.

50 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 7:05:31pm

re: #48 Varek Raith

Osama Bin Laden was unavailable for comment.

As was Saddam Hussein as well.

51 Interesting Times  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 7:06:28pm

Yikes!

Image: e8944acafb8e11e18fe322000a1c8660_7.jpg

And what the hell is he holding? I guess it's some sort of alleged chocolate confection, but it looks like...I dunno...his budget plan? ;)

52 Varek Raith  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 7:06:32pm

re: #50 Dark_Falcon

As was Saddam Hussein as well.

And 18! Number 2s.
Shit job, no?

53 BishopX  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 7:06:49pm

Fun fact: Obama did in fact use the word god in his 2011 speech.

Our character as a nation has not changed. Our faith -– in God and in each other –- that has not changed. Our belief in America, born of a timeless ideal that men and women should govern themselves; that all people are created equal, and deserve the same freedom to determine their own destiny –- that belief, through tests and trials, has only been strengthened.

Suck it wingnuts!

54 Gus  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 7:07:18pm

re: #51 Interesting Times

Yikes!

[Embedded content]

Image: e8944acafb8e11e18fe322000a1c8660_7.jpg

And what the hell is he holding? I guess it's some sort of alleged chocolate confection, but it looks like...I dunno...his budget plan? ;)

He sure is one handsome dude.

//

55 darthstar  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 7:07:26pm

re: #51 Interesting Times

Yikes!

[Embedded content]

Image: e8944acafb8e11e18fe322000a1c8660_7.jpg

And what the hell is he holding? I guess it's some sort of alleged chocolate confection, but it looks like...I dunno...his budget plan? ;)

There's a reason he looks like he just bit a turd.

56 The Ghost of a Flea  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 7:07:53pm

re: #53 BishopX

Fun fact: Obama did in fact use the word god in his 2011 speech.

Suck it wingnuts!

Taquiyya

or possibly taquito

57 aagcobb  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 7:07:53pm

re: #50 Dark_Falcon

As was Saddam Hussein as well.

Not to mention Generalissimo Francisco Franco

58 Daniel Ballard  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 7:07:58pm

re: #34 danarchy

Heh. Politics is rife with unthinkable outcomes.

59 Shiplord Kirel  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 7:08:30pm

re: #37 Sionainn

I filled it out and sent it back to them. LOL.

They'll have to add more choices before I can take it:

1. Should businesses, schools, churches and daycares be required by law to hire and advance homosexuals or face prosecution and multimillion-dollar lawsuits?
Yes No Unsure
Yes, with deportation to Uganda for violators.

2. Do you support the forced introduction of radical homosexual practices into the U.S. Military with the Repeal of Don't Ask Don't Tell?
Yes No Unsure
If they can shoot straight, I don't care which way they swing.

3. Should decisions about morality and sexuality be taken away from parents, in order for radical teachers and counselors to promote the homosexual lifestyle in schools?
Yes No Unsure
Yes, the more time these radicals waste on an impossible task, the less mischief they can cause elsewhere.

4. Do you support President Obama's plan to repeal the Defense of Marriage Act and institute homosexual "marriage" laws for the entire country?
Yes No Unsure
Yes, and mandatory quotas for gay marriage should be set for Red states, with denial of federal highway funds for non-compliance.

5. Should the U.S. Supreme Court have the right to overturn traditional 'one man and one woman' marriage laws passed by individual states?
Yes No Unsure
Yes, but one "man, one horse" should be inviolate.

60 Kragar  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 7:08:56pm

re: #52 Varek Raith

And 18! Number 2s.
Shit job, no?

"...if you don't want to be blown into tiny little pieces, hold up your hand, hop on one foot and sing "Freebird"."
"Uh... uh... "
"Congratulations, Number 2!"

61 Daniel Ballard  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 7:09:23pm

re: #33 Kronocide

I'd say both crossed that partisan line, Fox just went farther faster. MSNBC did the same in a market share strategy response.

62 Gus  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 7:10:04pm

re: #23 wrenchwench

Typo or time warp?

Nice Page as always, Gus.

Thanks WW!

63 Lidane  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 7:10:06pm

re: #49 Dark_Falcon

If it's animated, it would be better if it were Tarantino. He did have part of Kill Bill animated.

If it's animated, I'd want to see what Eli Roth could do with that. Or James Gunn. Or whoever directed the Afro Samurai anime.

64 BishopX  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 7:10:52pm

re: #53 BishopX

Obama also come pretty close in his 9/11/10 remarks:

That is why, on this day, we pray with the families of those who died. We mourn with husbands and wives, children and parents, friends and loved ones. We think about the milestones that have passed over the course of nine years – births and christenings, weddings and graduations – all with an empty chair.

On this day, we also honor those who died so that others might live: the firefighters and first responders who climbed the stairs of two burning towers; the passengers who stormed a cockpit; and the men and women who have, in the years since, borne the uniform of this country and given their lives so that our children could grow up in a safer world. In acts of courage and decency, they defended a simple precept: I am my brother’s keeper; I am my sister’s keeper.

65 jaunte  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 7:11:05pm

re: #3 Shiplord Kirel

The GOP is truly howling in the wilderness now.

By deciding to oppose everything Obama did or said without exception, with no underlying principle, the GOP leadership has damaged the party's brand to the extent that it may not be able to recover.

66 Gus  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 7:11:24pm
67 Mattand  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 7:12:07pm

re: #9 dragonath

Iowa: Chris Christie to Campaign for Steve King

And they call this guy a moderate why?

Unreal.

I see my beloved guv is not wasting any time sucking up to the crazies for his 2016 POTUS run. I had a feeling this was going to happen.

I'm sure we'll see his tolerance of Muslims drop soon, like any good modern conservative.

68 Gus  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 7:12:50pm

No waterboarding though and I doubt they're using any secret prisons anymore.

69 Lidane  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 7:13:22pm

Actually, screw it -- hand Preacher over to whoever directed The Raid: Redemption. That was awesome.

70 BishopX  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 7:13:55pm

re: #64 BishopX

And he did mention the word god in his 2009 remarks at Arlington:

Scripture teaches us a hard truth. The mountains may fall and the earth may give way; the flesh and the heart may fail. But after all our suffering, God and grace will "restore you and make you strong, firm and steadfast." So it is -- so it has been for these families. So it must be for our nation.

This means that Obama his mentioned god directly 2/4 times and leaned pretty hard on the scripture 3/4 times. Bush in contrasts used the word good 5/8 times. Not a big difference.

71 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 7:14:18pm

re: #52 Varek Raith

And 18! Number 2s.
Shit job, no?

Eh?

72 Gus  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 7:15:15pm

re: #67 Mattand

Unreal.

I see my beloved guv is not wasting any time sucking up to the crazies for his 2016 POTUS run. I had a feeling this was going to happen.

I'm sure we'll see his tolerance of Muslims drop soon, like any good modern conservative.

Which means Christie isn't really a man of principle. I watched his speech at a recent Ramadan dinner. He specifically targets people like Kind. Then he turns around and endorses King?

73 BongCrodny  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 7:16:06pm

re: #63 Lidane

If it's animated, I'd want to see what Eli Roth could do with that. Or James Gunn. Or whoever directed the Afro Samurai anime.

James Gunn wrote Scooby-Doo I and II, so that automatically excludes him from consideration.

74 thecommodore  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 7:16:13pm

Bush may not of said God those years, but I'm sure he was th

Obama, on the other hand, was thinking Allah. This is how his secret Muslim faith sbows up.

75 Killgore Trout  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 7:16:30pm

re: #68 Gus

No waterboarding though and I doubt they're using any secret prisons anymore.

Of course they are using secret prisons. It just doesn't make the news much which makes them more secret than Bush's secret prisons. We just turned over Bagrahm prison to Afghanistan today. Out of sight, out of mind.

76 Lidane  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 7:16:57pm

re: #71 Dark_Falcon

Eh?

So far we've killed 18 people who've been AQ's #2 man.

Talk about a shitty promotion. It's the kind of job you give to someone you hate so they get killed faster.

77 Varek Raith  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 7:17:06pm

re: #74 thecommodore

Image: 5269558397_64406aeb94_z.jpg

78 Sheila Broflovski  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 7:17:15pm

re: #12 Mostly sane, most of the time.

Go back and read up on 19th century elections. This is nothing.

Andrew Jackson: The Most Terrifying Man Ever Elected President.

But Teddy Roosevelt would totally whip Andy's ass.

79 Mattand  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 7:17:23pm

re: #65 jaunte

By deciding to oppose everything Obama did or said without exception, with no underlying principle, the GOP leadership has damaged the party's brand to the extent that it may not be able to recover.

Wishful thinking. This is what everyone was saying in December '08; they're done, finished, kaput. How could the GOP recover after nominating Sarah Palin?

What the pundits forgot is the American voter has the long term memory of a pipe cleaner. The Republicans aren't going anywhere, regardless of how racist, misogynist, and fundamentalist they get.

Shit, if anything, by fully embracing their inner psycho, they're probably gaining voters.

80 Lidane  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 7:17:50pm

re: #73 BongCrodny

James Gunn wrote Scooby-Doo I and II, so that automatically excludes him from consideration.

He also did a bunch of Troma movies and the video game Lollipop Chainsaw. That means he knows how to drown things in blood.

81 God of Binders with Women  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 7:18:14pm

God wasn't even mentioned in the Pledge of Allegiance until Eisenhower was POTUS. I seriously doubt this toolbag knows that. By his logic, we were a satanic nation, bent on imperialistic drunkenness intent on forcing secularism down our citizens' throats. What a dumbfuck.

82 Kragar  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 7:23:28pm

re: #81 Changing Colors, Spinning Yarns

God wasn't even mentioned in the Pledge of Allegiance until Eisenhower was POTUS. I seriously doubt this toolbag knows that. By his logic, we were a satanic nation, bent on imperialistic drunkenness intent on forcing secularism down our citizens' throats. What a dumbfuck.


Santorum: By 'Pursuit of Happiness,' The Founders Meant 'To Pursue God's Will'

Rick Santorum spoke at the iPledge Sunday prayer gathering where he explained to the audience that our Founding Fathers knew that our right came from God and that is why they explicitly protects our rights to "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness."

But by "happiness," Santorum declared, the Founders didn't mean "enjoyment" but rather doing what God has commanded and serving His will:

83 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 7:23:33pm

re: #76 Lidane

So far we've killed 18 people who've been AQ's #2 man.

Talk about a shitty promotion. It's the kind of job you give to someone you hate so they get killed faster.

Actually, the cutout was the #3 man, the "operations chief". Until the SEALs punched bin Laden's ticket, the #2 was Ayman al Zawahiri, who is now the #1 shitbird in Al Qaeda.

84 engineer cat  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 7:23:46pm

re: #67 Mattand

Unreal.

I see my beloved guv is not wasting any time sucking up to the crazies for his 2016 POTUS run. I had a feeling this was going to happen.

I'm sure we'll see his tolerance of Muslims drop soon, like any good modern conservative.

something about christie's low level of tolerance for people he considers fools makes me think he will not pander to the right wing with smoothness, no matter how hard he tries

somebody is bound to get up his nose too far

85 Mattand  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 7:24:13pm

re: #72 Gus

Which means Christie isn't really a man of principle. I watched his speech at a recent Ramadan dinner. He specifically targets people like Kind. Then he turns around and endorses King?

I actually created a LGF page about that. IMO, by hosting that dinner, Christie officially sank whatever chance he had VP this year. Not that he would have accepted it; his speech at the RNC was his unofficial announcement he was running for 2016.

Christie every so often signals to the wingnuts he wants to be their friend. For example, when asked if he endorsed teaching creationism in public schools, he got nasty with the reporter and said it was up the local Boards of Education. He know how much conservatives hate science.

86 engineer cat  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 7:25:21pm

re: #83 Dark_Falcon

Actually, the cutout was the #3 man, the "operations chief". Until the SEALs punched bin Laden's ticket, the #2 was Ayman al Zawahiri, who is now the #1 shitbird in Al Qaeda.

zawahiri is a person i reserve a particular dislike for

i think it is very important for him to be caused to be harmless

87 Killgore Trout  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 7:25:28pm

Allahpundit comes out against economic boycotts against political opponents
People boycotting pizza owner’s restaurant for hugging Obama?

Could be that I’m in denial because it’s too depressing to believe that a guy’s business might actually be boycotted because he clowned around with the president, but unless I’m missing something there’s no organized boycott happening. When Van Duzer says “boycott,” I think he’s referring to individual people grumbling on Yelp that they won’t eat at his place anymore. And if you follow that last link, you’ll find that as of tonight there are way, way, way more people rallying to his side — partly as a reaction to the churlishness of the “boycotters” — than there are people who are peeved at him. Makes me wonder if him talking up a boycott is actually a smart, savvy businessman’s play, knowing that while he might lose a handful of diehard anti-Obama customers, he’ll gain a bunch of publicity among liberals who’ll want to show solidarity by eating there.

Reader reaction is mixed but many seem to favor the tired progressive model of punishing people they disagree with.

88 Gus  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 7:25:54pm

Let's put it up on the screen.

Obama and God would be a Google search of God site:whitehouse.gov

About 2,470 results (0.22 seconds)

Obama and God would be a Google search of God site:georgewbush-whitehouse.archives.gov

About 3,110 results (0.32 seconds)

Obama mentioning God per year is calculated as:

2,470/4 = 617.5 or 618/year

W mentioning God per year is calculated as:

3,110/8 = 388.75 or 389/year

618/389 X 100 = 158.86

Obama has already mentioned God 158.86% times as much as Bush's mention.

Also. At this rate. If Obama is reelected he will have mentioned God 4,944 times vs. Bush's 3,110.

Obama wins the "who mentioned God" contest.

//

89 MittDoesNotCompute  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 7:26:34pm

re: #78 Learned Mother of Zion

Andrew Jackson: The Most Terrifying Man Ever Elected President.

But Teddy Roosevelt would totally whip Andy's ass.

It'd be a close one, and I'm not just biased for Old Hickory just because he's a Nashville homeboy; the man took a lead ball to the chest in a duel in 1806 and carried it around with him for the rest of his life.

TR was hardcore, but Old Hickory, in ways, was harder.

90 The Ghost of a Flea  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 7:27:29pm

re: #87 Killgore Trout

Reader reaction is mixed but many seem to favor the tired progressive model of punishing people they disagree with.

Wow.

Cheap shot.

Cheap, hacky, partisan shot.

91 Gus  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 7:27:33pm

re: #87 Killgore Trout

Allahpundit comes out against economic boycotts against political opponents
People boycotting pizza owner’s restaurant for hugging Obama?

Reader reaction is mixed but many seem to favor the tired progressive model of punishing people they disagree with.

Burp.

92 efuseakay  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 7:28:02pm

re: #50 Dark_Falcon

As was Saddam Hussein as well.

He was such a threat with all his WMD and nukes hidden in and around the area of Tikrit.

93 Varek Raith  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 7:28:42pm

re: #87 Killgore Trout

You seem completely blind to shades of grey.

94 Mattand  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 7:29:05pm

re: #84 engineer cat

something about christie's low level of tolerance for people he considers fools makes me think he will not pander to the right wing with smoothness, no matter how hard he tries

somebody is bound to get up his nose too far

He's palling around with Steve King. You don't get much more crazy conservative than that.

Also, as I stated before, his "let's vote on gay marriage" stance is designed entirely to make him look like a conservative hero. If such a vote were to pass, he gets to be a martyr. If it fails, he's the hero who kept NJ and the US safe from gay people having equal rights.

Like him or hate him, Christie knows how to play the game really well. Don't underestimate him.

95 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 7:29:46pm

re: #92 efuseakay

He was a murderous tyrant who richly deserved the hanging he received. Be glad he's dead, the world is better off without him in it.

96 Kronocide  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 7:30:32pm

re: #93 Varek Raith

You seem completely blind to shades of grey.

That's shades of progressive.

97 Mocking Jay  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 7:30:52pm

re: #87 Killgore Trout

Allahpundit comes out against economic boycotts against political opponents
People boycotting pizza owner’s restaurant for hugging Obama?

Reader reaction is mixed but many seem to favor the tired progressive model of punishing people they disagree with.

I admire that you can say that with a straight face with all of the voter suppression bills that have been passed.

98 Hercules Grytpype-Thynne  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 7:31:23pm

re: #90 The Ghost of a Flea

Wow.

Cheap shot.

Cheap, hacky, partisan shot.

No, he's right. I specifically remember how the progressives totally punished the Dixie Chicks.

99 Killgore Trout  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 7:31:30pm

re: #90 The Ghost of a Flea

Wow.

Cheap shot.

Cheap, hacky, partisan shot.

If you'd like to support the business owner against the tactics of partisan economic threats...
UPDATED: UNDER ATTACK--SUPPORT BIG APPLE PIZZA--JUST DONATE!!

UPDATE #4: Notice to Kos members: Seems Van Duzer's pizza parlor is being inudated with orders. LOL This is great, but they're swamped now. Literally. So they'd much rather you donate directly to The Van Duzer Foundation. Let's keep the love flowing, folks, in the form of donations. I want to blow these GOP thugs out of the water with their stupid boycott.

Please do if you're so inclined. These activist campaigns to economically punish people with different ideas or political leanings is toxic to out culture of freedom and tolerance.

100 prairiefire  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 7:31:39pm

re: #93 Varek Raith

You seem completely blind to shades of grey.

Are you talking about that book?/

101 engineer cat  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 7:31:42pm

re: #93 Varek Raith

You seem completely blind to shades of grey.

i heard that there are several dozen of them or so or something like that...

102 prairiefire  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 7:32:38pm

re: #99 Killgore Trout

Good thing Papa John's sucks.

103 andres  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 7:32:53pm

re: #87 Killgore Trout

Allahpundit comes out against economic boycotts against political opponents
People boycotting pizza owner’s restaurant for hugging Obama?

Reader reaction is mixed but many seem to favor the tired progressive model of punishing people they disagree with.

Are you referring to Chik-a-filla? You do realize you are invoking the MBF, and she's charging overtime.

104 jaunte  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 7:32:57pm

re: #79 Mattand

I don't know, I think they've put themselves in a shrinking corner by turning off Hispanic and African-American voters, not to mention a significant chunk of the under-50s.

105 Mocking Jay  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 7:33:14pm

re: #95 Dark_Falcon

He was a murderous tyrant who richly deserved the hanging he received. Be glad he's dead, the world is better off without him in it.

Was it worth the money we spent on that war?

106 Tigger2005  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 7:33:42pm

Question: I am no longer getting any sharing options when I put my cursor over "Share" and when I click on it, LGF just reloads and kicks me up to the top of the page. I was able to get the sharing options just a few days ago, and I don't know of any settings that have gotten changed. Any thoughts? I am using Firefox 15.0.1.

107 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 7:34:19pm

re: #105 Mocking Jay

I'm not going there, not tonight.

108 jaunte  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 7:34:27pm
109 Mattand  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 7:34:39pm

re: #95 Dark_Falcon

He was a murderous tyrant who richly deserved the hanging he received. Be glad he's dead, the world is better off without him in it.

And all it took was the deaths of thousands of American soldiers and tens of thousands of Iraqi civilians to get the job done.

110 Gus  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 7:34:50pm

[Sound of record skipping, and skipping, and skipping...]

111 andres  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 7:35:06pm

re: #108 jaunte

[Embedded content]

Who would have thought!

112 prairiefire  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 7:35:23pm

re: #107 Dark_Falcon

Where you going to look for a job?

113 Gus  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 7:35:29pm

re: #99 Killgore Trout

If you'd like to support the business owner against the tactics of partisan economic threats...
UPDATED: UNDER ATTACK--SUPPORT BIG APPLE PIZZA--JUST DONATE!!

Please do if you're so inclined. These activist campaigns to economically punish people with different ideas or political leanings is toxic to out culture of freedom and tolerance.

Yep. Just like the Montgomery Bus Boycott. Toxic!

114 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 7:35:34pm

re: #110 Gus

[Sound of record skipping, and skipping, and skipping...]

Smack the turntable.

115 Interesting Times  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 7:36:48pm

But this is good, because government that's why.

116 Mattand  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 7:36:54pm

re: #104 jaunte

I don't know, I think they've put themselves in a shrinking corner by turning off Hispanic and African-American voters, not to mention a significant chunk of the under-50s.

This is true. 2016 will be a real interesting race, particularly if the economy is still in the shitter.

117 Tigger2  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 7:36:59pm

I believe in God, but I am so sick of the wingnuts and the religious right thinking god has to be mentioned in everything.

118 prairiefire  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 7:37:20pm

re: #114 Cannadian Club Akbar

Smack the turntable.

You can't do that anymore! They are going for money on Ebay.

119 Gus  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 7:37:25pm

Or the Jewish boycott of German goods. Toxic!

120 Cannadian Club Akbar  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 7:37:52pm

re: #117 Tigger2

I believe in God, but I am so sick of the wingnuts and the religious right thinking god has to be mentioned in everything.

YOU MENTIONED GOD TWICE!!!

121 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 7:38:07pm

re: #112 prairiefire

Where you going to look for a job?

I actually went on my first interview today, with two scheduled for tomorrow.

I'm not going to say who I'm interviewing with, owing to the risk of shenanigans by internet haters.

122 Varek Raith  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 7:38:16pm

Donating millions to anti-gay groups = Guy hugging PotUS.

Yes sirree!

123 jaunte  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 7:39:12pm

re: #121 Dark_Falcon

I hope you find something interesting, and quickly. Best of luck.

124 prairiefire  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 7:39:32pm

re: #121 Dark_Falcon

There is lots of temporary political money being thrown around. Maybe your pops knows where there's a R phone bank.

125 Tigger2  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 7:39:35pm

re: #120 Cannadian Club Akbar

It had to be done.

126 Obdicut  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 7:40:44pm

re: #99 Killgore Trout

Please do if you're so inclined. These activist campaigns to economically punish people with different ideas or political leanings is toxic to out culture of freedom and tolerance.

Actually, economic punishment has been successfully used many times, like during the civil rights movement, in order to push businesses forwards. Most strikes are a form of economic punishment, too-- of course, as a classical liberal, you're opposed to all unions so you probably aren't a big fan of strikes.

People can boycott good people for bad reasons, and can boycott bad people for good reasons. For some fucked-up reason you're fascinated by the method rather than the substance. It's freaking weird.

Hell, at the heart of it, a boycott is just "I'm not going to shop there". The natural outgrowth of your bizarre-ass attitude is that even if you found out that some dude you bought stuff from was a KKK member who gave money to organizations that called black people animals, you'd still keep buying from him because economically punishing him would just be wrong because circular logic, that's why.

127 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 7:44:34pm

re: #76 Lidane

So far we've killed 18 people who've been AQ's #2 man.

Talk about a shitty promotion. It's the kind of job you give to someone you hate so they get killed faster.

I thought it was number three we kept killing.

128 Killgore Trout  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 7:44:59pm

re: #99 Killgore Trout

They accept small donations. I just sent $5 as a token of my stance against bullies and economic threats against free speech.I like to see these boycotts backfire and it's a good cause. .

129 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 7:45:05pm

re: #124 prairiefire

I'm sure you understand this, but just to be clear: When I spoke of "internet haters" I'm not referring to anyone who's posted on this thread.

130 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 7:45:09pm

re: #83 Dark_Falcon

Actually, the cutout was the #3 man, the "operations chief". Until the SEALs punched bin Laden's ticket, the #2 was Ayman al Zawahiri, who is now the #1 shitbird in Al Qaeda.

I think (and pray) he's been promoted above his level of competence.

131 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 7:45:29pm

re: #127 SanFranciscoZionist

I thought it was number three we kept killing.

You are correct.

132 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 7:46:24pm

re: #87 Killgore Trout

Allahpundit comes out against economic boycotts against political opponents
People boycotting pizza owner’s restaurant for hugging Obama?

Reader reaction is mixed but many seem to favor the tired progressive model of punishing people they disagree with.

That could be because it's their model. The wingnuts are heavily into boycotts over incredibly stupid shit.

As for this...yeah, they'll eat Dominos for a couple of weeks. Nu.

133 jaunte  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 7:46:39pm

Civility has disappeared in Chicago Teachers Union protests
[Link: twitter.com...]

134 Tigger2005  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 7:47:04pm

re: #109 Mattand

And all it took was the deaths of thousands of American soldiers and tens of thousands of Iraqi civilians to get the job done.

I just find it difficult to be completely, totally and utterly opposed to a war that took out someone like Saddam, to find it absolutely, 100% immoral. Saddam was massacring and torturing his people and using chemical weapons on his own population, and engaging in the usual horrific oppression that brutal dictators engage in. How long would it have continued? It's easy to measure the costs of a "hot" war, but how to measure the costs of a shadowy, silent war, waged beyond the reach of the cameras, of a totalitarian government against its own people? I realize this could be seen as an excuse and justification to use force to topple any and all dictators by force rather than via economic sanctions and the like, as well as an "end justifies the means" argument. That isn't my intention, it's just to say...I can't find a war that DOES topple such a dictator 100% immoral.

135 Killgore Trout  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 7:47:23pm

re: #128 Killgore Trout

They accept small donations. I just sent $5 as a token of my stance against bullies and economic threats against free speech.I like to see these boycotts backfire and it's a good cause. .

I'm also feeling thankful because after much wrangling I got my insurance company to renew my existing account with a small late payment fee.

136 Tigger2  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 7:48:19pm

re: #135 Killgore Trout

I'm also feeling thankful because after much wrangling I got my insurance company to renew my existing account with a small late payment fee.

Good

137 Obdicut  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 7:49:11pm

re: #128 Killgore Trout

They accept small donations. I just sent $5 as a token of my stance against bullies and economic threats against free speech.I like to see these boycotts backfire and it's a good cause. .

Your continued conflation of free speech-- which is speech unhindered by government reprisal or repression-- with the idea that people's speech should be free from consequences, is one of your worst, most obvious, and most easily demonstrated logical mistakes. What makes it hilarious is that you're usually arguing against what you mistakenly call free speech when you do so-- a boycott is speech, people stating that they will not buy something from somewhere and telling others that.

I don't think you could actually create a logically more unsound argument if you tried. So, kudos on your derp-based performance art, it's really fucking something.

138 engineer cat  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 7:50:46pm

boycott

think 'tax on tea'

139 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 7:51:32pm

re: #105 Mocking Jay

Was it worth the money we spent on that war?

Probably not, but if we were going to do it anyway, at least Saddam's not on the goddamn Riviera.

Instead, it's been...many...weeks since he was gored to death by a pack of wild boars, and the world is still glad to be rid of him.

140 Mocking Jay  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 7:51:41pm

re: #133 jaunte

Civility has disappeared in Chicago Teachers Union protests
[Link: twitter.com...]

Hey, everybody. Look at this photograph.

141 Varek Raith  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 7:52:13pm

re: #140 Mocking Jay

Hey, everybody. Look at this photograph.

To gitmo with him then.

142 Kragar  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 7:52:30pm

re: #139 SanFranciscoZionist

Probably not, but if we were going to do it anyway, at least Saddam's not on the goddamn Riviera.

Instead, it's been...many...weeks since he was gored to death by a pack of wild boars, and the world is still glad to be rid of him.

Yeah, but apparently Satan is due to make an appearance sometime soon, and well, you know how thats going to go.

143 Obdicut  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 7:52:35pm

re: #140 Mocking Jay

Hey, everybody. Look at this photograph.

They have gone too damn far!

144 Gus  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 7:53:23pm

re: #143 Obdicut

They have gone too damn far!

THIS IS OUTRAGEOUS!

145 The Ghost of a Flea  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 7:53:49pm

re: #142 Kragar

Yeah, but apparently Satan is due to make an appearance sometime soon, and well, you know how thats going to go.

Up-tempo singing and dancing?

146 Mocking Jay  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 7:54:09pm

Memos show U.S. helped cover up Soviet massacre

Documents released Monday and seen in advance by The Associated Press lend weight to the belief that suppression within the highest levels of the U.S. government helped cover up Soviet guilt in the killing of some 22,000 Polish officers and other prisoners in the Katyn forest and other locations in 1940.

The evidence is among about 1,000 pages of newly declassified documents that the United States National Archives released and is putting online. Ohio Rep. Marcy Kaptur, who helped lead a recent push for the release of the documents, called the effort's success Monday a "momentous occasion" in an attempt to "make history whole."

147 Obdicut  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 7:54:38pm

re: #146 Mocking Jay

Makes me miss Sergey-- that's one of his main areas of research.

148 Tigger2  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 7:54:41pm

re: #133 jaunte

Civility has disappeared in Chicago Teachers Union protests
[Link: twitter.com...]

My God they have invoked Nickleback what could be next.

149 Lidane  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 7:54:56pm

re: #87 Killgore Trout

I'm still waiting to hear where the politics were in the pizza guy hugging the POTUS. So he was happy to have the President in his pizza joint. Big deal. If he'd been rude or kicked him out, would that have been better? Was he supposed to punch Obama in the face?

150 makeitstop  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 7:55:37pm

re: #140 Mocking Jay

Hey, everybody. Look at this photograph.

That's cold.

151 Kronocide  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 7:55:58pm

re: #147 Obdicut

Makes me miss Sergey-- that's one of his main areas of research.

Still worried about him. Any news?

152 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 7:56:10pm

re: #140 Mocking Jay

Hey, everybody. Look at this photograph.

I'm ashamed to share a profession with that man.

153 Obdicut  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 7:56:16pm

re: #151 Kronocide

Still worried about him. Any news?

I think Gus said that he's just taking an interwebs break.

154 b_sharp  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 7:57:02pm

re: #149 Lidane

I'm still waiting to hear where the politics were in the pizza guy hugging the POTUS. So he was happy to have the President in his pizza joint. Big deal. If he'd been rude or kicked him out, would that have been better? Was he supposed to punch Obama in the face?

In the minds of the mindless, the whole episode was a setup so it shouldn't have happened at all.

155 Lidane  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 7:57:04pm

re: #103 andres

Are you referring to Chik-a-filla? You do realize you are invoking the MBF, and she's charging overtime.

With as much as KT's been invoking her lately, I'm surprised she hasn't unionized and declared a strike until she gets overtime pay and some vaction time.

If was I the MBF, I'd Occupy the nearest recliner until all this passive aggressive shit was out of his system.

156 Gus  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 7:57:15pm

re: #153 Obdicut

I think Gus said that he's just taking an interwebs break.

Yep. That was 9 July.

157 bratwurst  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 7:57:31pm

Writing bogus negative reviews for a guy's pizzeria is JUST THE SAME as letting Rush Limbaugh's advertisers know that they support someone who has been heavily documented as a racist and misogynist! FLY MAGICAL BALANCE FAIRY, FLY!

158 b_sharp  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 7:57:49pm

re: #152 SanFranciscoZionist

I'm ashamed to share a profession with that man.

But Nickelback is Canadian.

159 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 7:57:57pm

re: #146 Mocking Jay

Memos show U.S. helped cover up Soviet massacre

I have always hated Realpolitik, or embracing practicality over idealism.

Sooner or later, you end up doing or condoning something ghastly in the name of "moving the dialogue forward" or some such silliness, just because you'll call the guy who'll be your friend an ally.

Don't like it.

160 Tigger2005  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 7:58:25pm

re: #137 Obdicut

Your continued conflation of free speech-- which is speech unhindered by government reprisal or repression-- with the idea that people's speech should be free from consequences, is one of your worst, most obvious, and most easily demonstrated logical mistakes. What makes it hilarious is that you're usually arguing against what you mistakenly call free speech when you do so-- a boycott is speech, people stating that they will not buy something from somewhere and telling others that.

I don't think you could actually create a logically more unsound argument if you tried. So, kudos on your derp-based performance art, it's really fucking something.

I do wish we had an environment where people felt less inclined to economically punish others for expressing views they disagree with. Unfortunately, one of our political parties has moved so far from the center that it's no longer possible, really, to keep that "live and let live" spirit. I can't ignore what Chick-fil-a's owners donate part of their profits to. The organizations they support use that money to spread hate and fear that literally destroys some lives and turns others into a living hell. Morally and ethically I have no choice but to refuse to spend my money there.

161 Gus  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 7:59:38pm

re: #158 b_sharp

But Nickleback is Canadian.

America's hat!

162 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 8:00:02pm

Nickelback is wounded. They'll just have to stop the bleeding with $100 bills.

164 palomino  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 8:01:46pm

On the issue of boycotts, comparing Big Apple Pizza with Chick-Fil-A is a MBF without wings.

The Big Apple Pizza guy, when he hugged Obama, made no political statement beyond, "I like this guy and I'm gonna vote for him." Thousands of business owners have shook hands with Obama and Romney over the last several months. But this guy is being targeted for right wing boycotts because he gave Obama a big sloppy hug, which is really nothing more than a nicer version of a handshake. Call it the Charlie Christ variation of ODS.

The Chick-Fil-A guy, on the other hand, made a clear social and political statement. First, he condemned same sex marriage, something a majority of Americans now see as a civil right. Second, he warned that as a nation we were risking the judgment of God due to our tolerance of homosexuality--the same toxic shit that Falwell and Robertson were spewing in the aftermath of 9/11.

Thus, MBF equivalency here just doesn't hold up.

165 Gus  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 8:05:42pm

re: #164 palomino

Put another way...

Big Apple Pizza... apples...

Chick-Fil-A... oranges!

See what I did there?

166 prairiefire  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 8:05:53pm

re: #159 Mostly sane, most of the time.

Winston felt dirty after doing it with Stalin.

167 b_sharp  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 8:06:21pm

re: #165 Gus

Put another way...

Big Apple Pizza... apples...

Chick-Fil-A... oranges!

See what I did there?

You made lemon juice.

168 Lidane  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 8:06:35pm

re: #164 palomino

Thus, MBF equivalency here just doesn't hold up.

It's a bullshit equivalence. One is an individual business owner who was happy to have the POTUS in his pizza joint and gave him a hug. The other is a major corporation that has given millions of corporate dollars to anti-gay causes because of their clearly stated religious views.

There's nothing remotely comparable between them and to try and make that argument is idiotic.

169 Gus  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 8:06:45pm

re: #167 b_sharp

You made lemon juice.

You lie!

170 Tigger2005  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 8:07:05pm

re: #159 Mostly sane, most of the time.

I have always hated Realpolitik, or embracing practicality over idealism.

Sooner or later, you end up doing or condoning something ghastly in the name of "moving the dialogue forward" or some such silliness, just because you'll call the guy who'll be your friend an ally.

Don't like it.

But can you honestly say you would have done something different, if you'd been in charge, in the same situation? The fact is the Russian people were bearing the brunt of the struggle against the Nazis, paying an incalculable cost in blood and treasure while the American people and to a lesser extent even the British and French were spared the pure hell that was the war on the Eastern Front. The fear of losing Russia as an ally (as had already happened once) was palpable. Maybe we could have handled this better (we certainly could have after the war was over). But I find it difficult to judge or second-guess decisions made during the war itself. One major exception is our abject failure to do more to save the Jews. That was inexcusable.

171 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 8:07:56pm

Totally OT--Out of curiosity, I'm flipping through a graphic on property tax value in Utah. (I have extended family that lives there or have lived there.)

Hildale is #6, right behind Salt Lake. That's in REAL DOLLARS, not in percents. In percents, it's first.

What? They don't even have schools, I thought, since Warren Jeffs told them to take the kids out of schools. What is the money going for?

I mean, in real dollars, it makes sense that the top three are ski towns, since the houses are expensive, but Hildale has cheap houses. And no schools.

Maybe there's some other explanation for it?

(Hildale is the town that the FLDS live in, for those who don't know such arcane trivia.)

172 Mocking Jay  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 8:08:07pm

On April 10, 2004, the Bush White House declassified that daily brief — and only that daily brief — in response to pressure from the 9/11 Commission, which was investigating the events leading to the attack. Administration officials dismissed the document’s significance, saying that, despite the jaw-dropping headline, it was only an assessment of Al Qaeda’s history, not a warning of the impending attack. While some critics considered that claim absurd, a close reading of the brief showed that the argument had some validity.

That is, unless it was read in conjunction with the daily briefs preceding Aug. 6, the ones the Bush administration would not release. While those documents are still not public, I have read excerpts from many of them, along with other recently declassified records, and come to an inescapable conclusion: the administration’s reaction to what Mr. Bush was told in the weeks before that infamous briefing reflected significantly more negligence than has been disclosed. In other words, the Aug. 6 document, for all of the controversy it provoked, is not nearly as shocking as the briefs that came before it.

173 Mattand  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 8:10:05pm

re: #134 Tigger2005

I just find it difficult to be completely, totally and utterly opposed to a war that took out someone like Saddam, to find it absolutely, 100% immoral. Saddam was massacring and torturing his people and using chemical weapons on his own population, and engaging in the usual horrific oppression that brutal dictators engage in. How long would it have continued? It's easy to measure the costs of a "hot" war, but how to measure the costs of a shadowy, silent war, waged beyond the reach of the cameras, of a totalitarian government against its own people? I realize this could be seen as an excuse and justification to use force to topple any and all dictators by force rather than via economic sanctions and the like, as well as an "end justifies the means" argument. That isn't my intention, it's just to say...I can't find a war that DOES topple such a dictator 100% immoral.

Saddam was as horrible as it gets and he will not be missed. My problem is that we invaded another country based on easily disprovable bullshit rumors, and managed to further destabilize an already unstable region of world. The invasion also managed to fuck up our operations in Afghanistan, which was in theory much more important to our security.

And, quite frankly, if Saddam were running a nation that didn't have massive oil reserves, we wouldn't have given him a second thought.

174 Kragar  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 8:10:09pm

Well, new video card is ordered and on the way. Bowing to the wife's input, I chose not to purchase the card that would have cost more than my current PC and went with a simple replacement instead.

175 Gus  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 8:10:11pm

Watch.

A Conversation With My 21 Year Old Self

Youtube Video
176 Varek Raith  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 8:10:44pm

re: #174 Kragar

Well, new video card is ordered and on the way. Bowing to the wife's input, I chose not to purchase the card that would have cost more than my current PC and went with a simple replacement instead.

Wimp.
:P

177 Kragar  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 8:12:28pm

re: #176 Varek Raith

Wimp.
:P

After spending the last week bitching we didn't have any money, discretion was the better part of valor.

178 Mocking Jay  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 8:13:29pm

re: #177 Kragar

After spending the last week bitching we didn't have any money, discretion was the better part of valor.

Youtube Video
179 Lidane  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 8:13:32pm

re: #177 Kragar

After spending the last week bitching we didn't have any money, discretion was the better part of valor.

Plus, sleeping on the couch is never comfortable. Heh.

180 Killgore Trout  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 8:14:32pm

re: #164 palomino

If you look through the Hot air thread the rationalizations are remarkable similar. Consequences of free speech, crushing enemies who want to crush us, etc. Just like the analogies between the Tea Party and OWS neither side can comprehend the comparison. One side is seen as the righteous all good embodiment of awesomess and the other side is an evil cabal of unthinking morons. The only difference is partisan affiliation which is how partisans view the world.

181 Mocking Jay  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 8:15:17pm

Oh dear.

182 Obdicut  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 8:16:02pm

re: #175 Gus

When he started singing, I lost it. That was fucking adorable.

183 prairiefire  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 8:16:30pm

re: #171 Mostly sane, most of the time.

If it is based on square footage, those compound/family houses looked pretty large in the news footage.

184 Tigger2005  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 8:16:46pm

re: #170 Tigger2005

But can you honestly say you would have done something different, if you'd been in charge, in the same situation? The fact is the Russian people were bearing the brunt of the struggle against the Nazis, paying an incalculable cost in blood and treasure while the American people and to a lesser extent even the British and French were spared the pure hell that was the war on the Eastern Front. The fear of losing Russia as an ally (as had already happened once) was palpable. Maybe we could have handled this better (we certainly could have after the war was over). But I find it difficult to judge or second-guess decisions made during the war itself. One major exception is our abject failure to do more to save the Jews. That was inexcusable.

And actually, I shouldn't have said "do MORE to save the Jews." Because beyond doing our bit to win the war, we did absolutely fucking nothing to help the Jews. We could have taken hundreds of thousands of them in. We could have bombed the train tracks leading to the death camps, and the death camps themselves. We didn't. There is no excuse.

185 Gus  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 8:16:53pm

re: #182 Obdicut

When he started singing, I lost it. That was fucking adorable.

Yeah. It's pretty cool.

186 Kragar  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 8:17:27pm

Taco meat purchased at the Mexican market

Pros: Delicious, easy to make and clean up
Con: Goes through me faster than Honey Boo Boo's mom goes thru a bag of cheetos.

187 sagehen  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 8:17:30pm

re: #6 Dark_Falcon

Fox News and the GOP are not an interchangeable joint entity.

Youtube Video
188 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 8:18:07pm

re: #183 prairiefire

If it is based on square footage, those compound/family houses looked pretty large in the news footage.

They pay more (in absolute dollars) for half the median value of the homes in the next-less-expensive town.

There's probably something to do with the fact that most of the homes are in a receivership because the homes were built as a communal effort, and then Jeffs started taking them, and lawsuits began, and now someone outside the community controls things per the courts.

189 Mich-again  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 8:18:08pm

re: #173 Mattand

My problem is that we went invaded another country based on easily disprovable bullshit rumors, and managed to further destabilize an already unstable region of world.

Kicking over the tables and blowing up the status quo in the Middle East was one of GWB's goals in Iraq. A democratic Iraq was to be the model that other nations in the region would follow and one by one the people would overthrow the dictators. All of our presidents since WWII were primariliy concerned with maintaining the status quo in the Middle East, content with supporting dictators to keep the peace.

190 Lidane  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 8:18:32pm
191 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 8:19:40pm

re: #189 Mich-again

Kicking over the tables and blowing up the status quo in the Middle East was one of GWB's goals in Iraq. A democratic Iraq was to be the model that other nations in the region would follow and one by one the people would overthrow the dictators. All of our presidents since WWII were primariliy concerned with maintaining the status quo in the Middle East, content with supporting dictators to keep the peace.

Supporting jerks to keep the peace is pretty much a description of US policy in many, many places, unfortunately.

I still like the English lady who, upon meeting Stalin at a party, asked him, directly, when he was going to stop killing people.

192 Lidane  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 8:19:40pm

Wheee!

193 Obdicut  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 8:19:59pm

re: #180 Killgore Trout

No, in this case, one side are a company that supports viciously anti-gay bigots, as well as running their company in a creepy, bordering-on-unconstitutional way, and the other side is a guy who supports Obama.

So, you see, this is one of the repeated failures of your musings; you have to completely alter reality for them to remotely make any sense. You generally just make an assertion that both sides are balanced, and then sit back and ignore the actual reality in front of you.

It's highly meditative. It's like the inverse of a koan, something where the merit lies not in understanding it, but understanding how badly put together it is.

194 Mich-again  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 8:20:11pm

re: #180 Killgore Trout

If you look through the Hot air thread the rationalizations are remarkable similar. Consequences of free speech, crushing enemies who want to crush us, etc. Just like the analogies between the Tea Party and OWS neither side can comprehend the comparison. One side is seen as the righteous all good embodiment of awesomess and the other side is an evil cabal of unthinking morons. The only difference is partisan affiliation which is how partisans view the world.

I don't think the other side is evil, more like willfully ignorant and proud.

195 sagehen  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 8:20:46pm

re: #34 danarchy

It isn't completely unthinkable that Jeb could make a run in 2016...

How old is Georgie P? I'm pretty sure they're grooming him to eventually run...

196 Mich-again  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 8:21:37pm

re: #192 Lidane

Wheee!

[Embedded content]

Wasting more gasoline to drive up the price even more.

197 Obdicut  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 8:22:31pm

re: #184 Tigger2005

And actually, I shouldn't have said "do MORE to save the Jews." Because beyond doing our bit to win the war, we did absolutely fucking nothing to help the Jews. We could have taken hundreds of thousands of them in. We could have bombed the train tracks leading to the death camps, and the death camps themselves. We didn't. There is no excuse.

We could have accepted boatloads of Jewish refugees.

Bluntly, that other stuff wouldn't really have helped. The camps were designed as an efficiency solution; they would have gone back to machine-gunning Jews where they found them, and forced penal battalions to do it, or something else. The camps were just a method to the evil.

What we should have done is take in Jewish refugees-- take in more refugees in general, too, but obviously especially Jewish and Roma and Polish and 7th Day Adventists and the other people on the Nazi's death list.

198 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 8:23:25pm

re: #197 Obdicut

We could have accepted boatloads of Jewish refugees.

Bluntly, that other stuff wouldn't really have helped. The camps were designed as an efficiency solution; they would have gone back to machine-gunning Jews where they found them, and forced penal battalions to do it, or something else. The camps were just a method to the evil.

What we should have done is take in Jewish refugees-- take in more refugees in general, too, but obviously especially Jewish and Roma and Polish and 7th Day Adventists and the other people on the Nazi's death list.

I vote for the kids on the boat. Top of the list that I couldn't believe he turned away.

199 palomino  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 8:24:05pm

re: #180 Killgore Trout

If you look through the Hot air thread the rationalizations are remarkable similar. Consequences of free speech, crushing enemies who want to crush us, etc. Just like the analogies between the Tea Party and OWS neither side can comprehend the comparison. One side is seen as the righteous all good embodiment of awesomess and the other side is an evil cabal of unthinking morons. The only difference is partisan affiliation which is how partisans view the world.

And your argument is remarkably similar to those who just sat on their hands during the civil rights era and shrugged. Your "response" has nothing to do with what I said in my post. I'm clearly not making the argument that one side has a monopoly on goodness.

The point is that hundreds of small business owners have been photographed in recent months shaking hands with Obama AND Romney. As far as I know, this guy in FL is the first of any of those to be targetted for a boycott. Somehow his hug crossed some imaginary Rubicon for right wingers.

Furthermore, Pizza Guy's actions simply don't rise to the level of "social and political statement" that clearly the Chicken Guy was making when he went down the road of condemning gay marriage. And suggesting we would be punished as a nation for condoning gay rights. And donating money to anti-gay family organizations. What did Pizza Man do that's close to that? Your MBF seems to only have a right wing.

200 sagehen  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 8:25:05pm

re: #66 Gus

[Embedded content]

It's not the same at all; Obama uses the American military as a scalpel, Bush used it as a sledgehammer.

201 prairiefire  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 8:26:19pm

re: #184 Tigger2005

I think that a lot of the killing had been done in the camps shortly before we even knew where the rail road tracks were going.
As a nation, we could have taken in many more refugees starting in the early 1930's.

202 Kronocide  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 8:26:46pm

re: #180 Killgore Trout

Rationalizations may seem similar but the cause of the boycotts may not be.

203 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 8:27:53pm

re: #201 prairiefire

I think that a lot of the killing had been done in the camps shortly before we even knew where the rail road tracks were going.
As a nation, we could have taken in many more refugees.

We could build a time machine, go back and hand out free passes to America in the Eastern European Jewish villages.

I'm not being snarky. It's one of my daydreams. Going back and begging them to emigrate.

204 Mich-again  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 8:32:27pm

Maybe Pizza Guy in Florida wants to be the anti-Papa Johns. That owner is a shameless GOP flunkie.

205 prairiefire  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 8:33:23pm

re: #203 Mostly sane, most of the time.

When I think of the sheer numbers of genocide in the 20th Century, I wonder how man can think he has advanced.

206 LadyBehir  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 8:35:26pm

Am I the only one to notice the President's reference to the empty chair in his 2010 9/11 address? Time warp or psychic?

207 Mich-again  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 8:36:11pm

I don't remember the Democrats calling for a boycott of Papa John's Pizza when he came out with this anti-Obama piece. Papa John's: 'Obamacare' will raise pizza prices

"We're not supportive of Obamacare, like most businesses in our industry. But our business model and unit economics are about as ideal as you can get for a food company to absorb Obamacare," he said.

"If Obamacare is in fact not repealed, we will find tactics to shallow out any Obamacare costs and core strategies to pass that cost onto consumers in order to protect our shareholders best interests," Schnatter vowed.

Schnatter is not the first pizza magnate to bemoan proposed or actual changes to federal health care. In 1993, future presidential candidate Herman Cain charged that Bill Clinton's proposed health care reform law would cost his company Godfather's Pizza money and jobs.

"For many many businesses like mine, the cost of your plan is simply a cost that will cause us to eliminate jobs," Cain told Clinton in a famous exchange.

208 sagehen  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 8:37:27pm

re: #149 Lidane

I'm still waiting to hear where the politics were in the pizza guy hugging the POTUS. So he was happy to have the President in his pizza joint. Big deal. If he'd been rude or kicked him out, would that have been better? Was he supposed to punch Obama in the face?

He actually is a supporter -- a Republican who voted Obama in 2008, intends to again, and says so in public. He's one of those moderate conservatives embarrassed that the party's been taken over by whack-job theocrats, the advance team didn't pick this particular pizza joint at random.

209 Mich-again  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 8:38:37pm

So we had Herman Cain and Papa John both active GOP shills.

Maybe the Pizza guy gave Obama a hug to let him know that not all pizza guys are mega rich wingnuts.

210 andres  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 8:39:37pm

re: #180 Killgore Trout

If you look through the Hot air thread the rationalizations are remarkable similar. Consequences of free speech, crushing enemies who want to crush us, etc. Just like the analogies between the Tea Party and OWS neither side can comprehend the comparison. One side is seen as the righteous all good embodiment of awesomess and the other side is an evil cabal of unthinking morons. The only difference is partisan affiliation which is how partisans view the world.

Let me be stupid for a minute here... but are you really saying that giving a bear hug to a Presidential candidate (forget if they're the current President) is the same as promoting discrimination against a subgroup of people going as far as investing company's resources into such actions?

Remember: MBF is charging overtime.

211 palomino  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 8:43:00pm

re: #207 Mich-again

I don't remember the Democrats calling for a boycott of Papa John's Pizza when he came out with this anti-Obama piece. Papa John's: 'Obamacare' will raise pizza prices

True. In part I think that's the case because Schnatter's "threat" to raise pizza prices came out to 11 cents per pie. The tradeoff being that his employees would now have health insurance. Even in these bad times, that's hardly the kind of thing that's gonna have a big impact on many consumers. OMG, no more pizza--it went up a dime.

If you're on a budget that gets down to the last penny, then tip the PJ delivery guy 11 cents less once the prices go up. As a consumer, you'll be paying the same amount. And the driver probably won't mind a slightly smaller tip because now he/she has health insurance.

212 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 8:48:55pm

re: #180 Killgore Trout

If you look through the Hot air thread the rationalizations are remarkable similar. Consequences of free speech, crushing enemies who want to crush us, etc. Just like the analogies between the Tea Party and OWS neither side can comprehend the comparison. One side is seen as the righteous all good embodiment of awesomess and the other side is an evil cabal of unthinking morons. The only difference is partisan affiliation which is how partisans view the world.

Translated: people are pissed off at this guy, and they don't want to buy his pizza?

OK.

213 allegro  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 8:57:51pm

re: #210 andres

Let me be stupid for a minute here... but are you really saying that giving a bear hug to a Presidential candidate (forget if they're the current President) is the same as promoting discrimination against a subgroup of people going as far as investing company's resources into such actions?

Remember: MBF is charging overtime.

He's been asked that question repeatedly. He's sticking to his vision of reality as only he has the superior intellect and objectivity to see it - unlike us partisans. So it seems the answer is yes.

214 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Sep 10, 2012 9:13:17pm

Good Night, all.

215 SmithCommaJohn  Tue, Sep 11, 2012 10:11:38am

If my personal religious beliefs do not include constant, slavish validation from everyone on the planet, the only possible explanation is that my beliefs are under attack!


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